# taping techniques



## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi Everyone 
Just wondering if anyone sprays mud as there final coat or as a level 5 finish. We started using this techique a while ago and it is proving very good results for us and saving a lot of time and money. Here in Ontario I have not found anyone doing this, not sure why. I would like to talk to anyone who is doing this and get some ideas or share information.
We have some videos on you tube any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks 
Jake 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drywall+taping+level5+&search_type=


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

What kind of spayer and tip size are you using? I tried it a couple times with mine. didn't work very good. I have a Graco 1595 and a SpeeFlo 4500. Used a gray 629 tip. Tried a 1231 too.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Is spraying the whole ceiling easier than polish coating by hand and then having to sand and light it?


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

Hey Tim0282
We use a speedflo 6900, with a titan 517 tip, we use rucco all purpose or mid weight thined out to a pancake batter mix and add a product called never miss colering gel, (fantastic product, this product alone will give you a level 5 finish) we found if you stay about 2' from the wall you won't get any fingering. Try it I assure you, you will never go back to hand skimming again.


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

Hey D's
We found that if you spray the entire ceiling, not only are you getting a level 5 finish it's faster than trying to hand trowel the whole ceiling. We use a product called never miss, we mix it with our mud, once the ceiling or walls have dried, we do not sand it, only if there are high spots or fish eyes we need to get rid of, then we apply a commercial grade primmer, then sand the primmer and youre ready for the top coat. This techniquie has saved us a lot of time and money. Let's face it when you're working by the sq' saving time is saving money.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Jake,
Watched the videos. You spray the joints & bead, then spray the entire wall. Seems like this would leave a LAYERED look when dry.
What is the purpose of using never miss other than for color.


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi Muddabuer
We do 2 coats on the flats and beads, then we spray our 3rd coat & let it dry, if the client wants a level 5 finish then I spray the entire wall, you can control the amount mud you put on as not to over layer. Most people just want a level 4 finish. All of our ceiling we do is always a level 5 finish.

The reason I use never miss is that it will give me a level 5 finish when I spray mud on the walls and ceilings, It also works really good when you're doing check outs. When I have to only do a level 4, and it comes time to sand I don't over sand the edges because as soon as you start sanding, the mud changes color and I don't risk sanding the drywall paper to much. 

One of the other reasons I do like using never miss in combination with our technique is, we leave our work in a paint ready condition. After we finish spraying the mud we leave it to dry (no sanding) and then apply a commercial grade primer, let it dry then sand the primer down. Never Miss has helped us out a lot, a really good product in my opinion.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

We don't spray our final on but, we use Never Miss in our final coat. Helps seal the mud so the joint doesn't flash as bad. Great product!


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

Hi Tim 
I do agree with you it is a great product. If you have the equipment you should really try to spray out final coats, this technique will really help you save time and money, takes a bit of practice but once you get used to it you will love it.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I've tried it a couple times. And it must take some practice. I did a terrible job! What kind of sprayer do you use?


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

We use a speeflo 6900, the trick is to thin your mud to like a pancake batter mix, you also might want to start out with a smaller tip like a 417 then move up to a 517 for ceilings, and treat the spraying procedure as if you were sparaying a thick primer. IE Rucco equaliser plus.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

USG Primer/Surfacer...kill two birds with one stone. Graco Mark V and 527 tip.

Don't understand how this Never Miss Product alone can give you a level V? Isn't it just a colorant?


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

It can't. But it helps seeing the holes/ scratches, etc.
I hope---think that is what he is saying.


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> USG Primer/Surfacer...kill two birds with one stone. Graco Mark V and 527 tip.
> 
> Don't understand how this Never Miss Product alone can give you a level V? Isn't it just a colorant?


We found that with the never miss and our technique of spraying mud this gives you a level 5 finish, no need for surfacer primers.


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## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

How long does it take to do a 4-500 hundred sheet house? cool idea but looks a little slow to me.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

What was drywall made for in the first place?


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

I think I have a stupid question for you. Do you rough sand your 3rd coat before you spray? 
Mudstar is that sarcasm? I've heard this before drywall is made to keep the heat in and the elements out. BUT it has evolved like may things and now in different areas of the world walls are a cosmetic element to house building esp custom homes. Some people want perfect walls and it is a trend where I live.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

I was not trying to be sarcastic. Proper tape and joint preparation before finishing with properly applied primer and paint of a quality that will do that type of job is the best way to finish drywall. Sand between coats from start to finish is part of the process people and will achieve same results with out having to spray mud that wasn't made for the job your applying it for in the first place. People are just too cheap to spend the money on the primers and paints and have you ever seen a painter sand his prime or paint. Most are splash and dash want to be's. All this inventors out there and this is what you come up with! Now I'm being sarcastic.


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## Huff RnR (Apr 14, 2010)

i believe what he meant was, and correct me if i'm wrong Mud...

once apon a time, long ago, in this very galaxy...

they used to stack up logs in order to make walls. i believe abraham lincoln ivented this, along with how to make a non centralized free citizenry based government into a totalitarian federal regime. but i digress.

they filled in the round log gaps in with mud/concrete/plaster...

later they decided if they cut those logs reeeeeaall straight and flat on one side, the walls wouldn't need nearly as much filling, and it was quick too! except for the guy underneath the logs in the ripping outfit pulling down the saw and sawdust all into his clothes...

then woohoo! a better idea! we'll make a framework skeleton like thing out of these sqaure cut boards, and take very small square cut strips (called lathe strips, you may've heard of them) and tack them across the skeleton to make an almost solid surface, still not quite as smooth as glass, and with a bunch of little cracks, but those guys with the plaster were getting real good by now, so, you know the rest of that story... plus the automation of saws and sawmills made for a lot of square ripped boards cheap.

can you imagine!? these people were COVERING THE ENTIRE WALL with plaster. that's just CRAZY, right???

but wait, there's more! 

someone thought up a brilliant idear, we'll make wide flat strips, maybe 16" wide, and make them long, these will replace all those pesky lathe strips, and just think of all the time you'll save, about 1/10th the previous amount of fasteners required! yay!

and then of course, came the genius...

"wait JUST ONE SECOND!" this guy says...

we're spending all this time taking a FLAT SURFACE (rock lath) allbeit full of cracks, and we're SPENDING ALL THIS TIME MAKING IT FLAT AGAIN!

he had it, folks, he had an idear. we'll make rock lath, but REALLY WIDE. and then, figure out a way to do the least amount of highly skilled disguising techniques, on the very FEW cracks, that are left. cause what kind of crazy person wants to cover a whole wall with plaster? right?

and that folks, is why they invented drywall, so they would NOT have to EVER skim an entire wall again.

i've done it, it's done.

if that don't get me kicked off here, i don't know what will...


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Then again, this technique might just be the quickest, easiest, and most cost effective way to get a ceiling where the builder or customer never... ever.. ever again... stops to assess all your hard work and says ""uh, it looks like there's something there, you can barely make it out though, there, see that?":thumbsup:

Doing the whole house I think is overkill but I'm going to try it on my next ceiling.

Thanks to all those who try something different in the name of doing a better job!

D'S


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Good one Huff!!


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## Huff RnR (Apr 14, 2010)

well, the last time someone said they could finish drywall and it was never, ever, blever, schmever, a problem, i looked at it, and well, i was not impressed.

but you might have to learn how to use a knife and make things dissappear. first time someone says "sanding between coats" you should learn how to use that knife to give them a light, but firm smack in the head. learn how to spackle. from someone who knows. do the work when the mud is WET, not with the sanding pole later.

i must see one of these "level 5" "spray" finishes. and like i said before, drywall was the last one of those improvements, and you might also note that i was not trying to justify using logs again or even plaster and rock lath, so i would NEVER be averse to doing something new that works and is pluses all around, but i have to see that it is in fact that. i also do very small remodeling jobs constantly, where everything you're saying would be so silly cost wise to set up it wouldn't be funny.

if it works better, do it! i apologize for anyone who got the impression that i would like to be in the stone age, although i have no idear how you would've... i was just attempting to explain "why they invented drywall in the first place"

one love, dawg.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

And I just liked reading both posts! Well written. :thumbsup:


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Huff RnR said:


> but you might have to learn how to use a knife and make things dissappear. first time someone says "sanding between coats" you should learn how to use that knife to give them a light, but firm smack in the head. learn how to spackle. from someone who knows. do the work when the mud is WET, not with the sanding pole later.


And I think that's exactly the point... why pull out your knives to do a 3rd coat when you can just spray the entire ceiling with next to no sanding, and leave a perfect surface once painted.

Hey Huff let's really go back, way back, backer before black was back, backer than Barack... to Africa where it all started with bros mixing straw and clay into blocks, then plastering it with cow ****! Looking at the trade magazines you have to wonder if the next hotest thing isn't Venetian Plasters and Clay Renders. The more things change the more they stay the same.

D'S


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

I might of not made myself clear about the sanding of the prime and paint between coats. 

By doing that instead of spraying mud will gain the smooth finish hes looking for is my solution for smooth wall finishing 

Its the painter that make or breaks the final finish 

Go figure for some reason some drywall finishers think there finishing the wall and that's up to the painter period. 

I don't paint!

Yeah you hit the nail right on the head Huff but now where talkin in another forum. Any framers here?


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