# Why are Metal Studs better than wood?



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I always like to challenge a discussion on our trade, so as the topic says "Why are Metal Studs better than Wood?".

Also, do any other countries use the ICC version of building codes?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

ANYTHING is better than wood! We can put a man in space ..and even clone animals ! But were still building homes out of trees?? I don't get It!


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 7, 2008)

MrWillys said:


> I always like to challenge a discussion on our trade, so as the topic says "Why are Metal Studs better than Wood?".


Metal studs are perfectly straight every time, fire resistant, bugs don't eat them and they don't rot like wood. :thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Metal studs are perfectly straight every time, fire resistant, bugs don't eat them and they don't rot like wood. :thumbup:


And they are dry! They don't shrink/warp/twist/buckle...:thumbsup:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Metal just can't compete cost wise when comparing structural metal to wood. I was hoping the Aussies or Van might chime in on whether or not they use them in non combustible construction? Here, construction Type's 1 and 2 must use metal? If you want to build something dead nuts on you can do it with metal.
I was taught by the Carpenters union that a majority of our lumber in the US is southern yellow pine. What about down under?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> I always like to challenge a discussion on our trade, so as the topic says "Why are Metal Studs better than Wood?".
> 
> Also, do any other countries use the ICC version of building codes?


We use the NCC version of the building code, whether it is based on the ICC or not I don't know. 
https://services.abcb.gov.au/NCCOnline/Publications/2015
As for steel it is STRAIGHT, I have not had much experience with it in commercial applications but plenty in the domestic field.
The fire stability of steel in my mind has issues. While it as a substrate is not a combustible product it's load carrying ability in my mind would be compromised by heat generated by the burning of other material. This could lead to an earlier collapse of the building. Where as timber can still suport a heavy load even if the studs are considerably burnt. My mother inlaws home burnt down last year so I have seen evidence to support my theory with timber.
Dont get me wrong I am a big fan of steel for a variety of reasons, including termite attack, and its ability to handle moisture. Check out this video of a steel framed home. I really like the noggin rail system. 

https://youtu.be/M5Qavr8zqB8


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Great post Gaz, and we used to have that discussion a lot about why we had to wrap a 6x6 post with rock and fire tape, but a 6" steel column we didn't.
Your video was really cool, and we rarely build residential (domestic) like that. Here, in non load bearing (commercial interiors) we use light gauge studs of 25, and 20 gauge. Our load bearing are 18, 16, and even 14 ga at times and 4 times the cost of wood.
Do you import lumber? Is metal cost competitive?


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Gaz, is the floor in that house covered in epoxy or is that the concrete finish?


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok guys on a commercial scene where the drywallers or Comercial carpenters install its great but i must say i did a big apartment block with pre fab off site.blue steel delivered and they didnt install it properly so it was out 15 mm every where at least it was consistant was out 15mm left corner of wall and 15 mm right corner lol......as for fire it absolutly destroys a house if its metal i do insurance and under heat the whole house buckles and warps and most time needs to be demolished if big enough fire where timber is only effected by burnt areas


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> Great post Gaz, and we used to have that discussion a lot about why we had to wrap a 6x6 post with rock and fire tape, but a 6" steel column we didn't.
> Your video was really cool, and we rarely build residential (domestic) like that. Here, in non load bearing (commercial interiors) we use light gauge studs of 25, and 20 gauge. Our load bearing are 18, 16, and even 14 ga at times and 4 times the cost of wood.
> Do you import lumber? Is metal cost competitive?


No we dont import lumber. It is grown in plantations, Radiata Pine is the most common one. 
Yes steel is competitive, we have project builders here that specialize in steel, and they compete with the blokes that use lumber.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Gaz, is the floor in that house covered in epoxy or is that the concrete finish?


Well spotted PA. That particular floor was coated with epoxy. They use different stone in the concrete mix, then grind the slab to expose the stone, then coat with epoxy. That was only a first coat, at the end of the build they go over it with the grinder again with a finer grit then re-coat.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

We don't import lumber either apart from some hardwoods for decking and floors etc, Radiatia pine plantations here as well, We grow much more than we use so its a export earner, In fact a few years ago the yanks invested millions here upgrading a sawmill and processing plant to make weatherboards and mouldings for the usa markets, Its a big factory.

Some steel framed homes are about, not many though, I have taped a few with high expectations but in all honesty the steel frames just seemed the same as lumber, Still had a few crooked walls popped screws, all the issues a timber framed house would have so it makes me think a lot of it really is just the wallboard, I didn't notice much difference between the two, The big difference would be a few years down the track to see how much it moved.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 7, 2008)

Buildings can be replaced and people can't. Metal studs don't really burn which can buy a little more time for people to escape from the fire.

Also, with metal studs you can go vertical with the drywall and get a better fire rating. 

Installing drywall vertical on wood studs... not so much.


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

Thats the best point ive hear yes it would burn alot slower


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

When I built a new house a few years ago I looked into steel frame.

I read somewhere timber framed houses stand up longer in a fire, They don't collapse, Unlike steel, Which reaches a point then caves in badly, How true is that? I don't know.

Steel was a much poorer insulator and lets sound in a lot more.

Despite the problems with timber I still think they are great houses.


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## aaron (Jun 19, 2013)

Wood is fine building with, it all depends on the crew framing. When I used to have my business framing as well, we were very picky with the lumber. Studs needed to be crowned, all the same way. Anything crowned too much gets cut up for cripple/jack studs and blocking. Anything for kitchen cabinets, tiled walls, etc. gets manufactured studs which are dead straight and stay that way. We didn't have much problems with things moving, ended up good.
Wood moves, you just have to know how to work with it to manage it.
I'll use metal for some applications, but typically it's wood, better availability here.


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## sheep (May 11, 2015)

We do a lot of steel framed homes. 2 of our builders that we work for pretty much only do steel. They used to do the fair system, which I myself don't like. There is no strength behind the recess join if it were ever to be hit, so more likely to crack. And sometimes the two sheets wouldnt want to sit flush, which when there's a noggin, its an easy fix. But, in a perfect world, if the sheets sit flush, it would be a nicer flatter wall with rails.

Steel has a few of the same problems as timber as far as hanging goes, the strapping still causes problems because of its thickness, and the added thickness of a screw on top of the strapping makes it worse than timber, because nails are flatter. (im talking about bracing strapping, run in an x over the frame. Idk if americans use it?)
If you need to take a noggin out on a timber frame to get sheets through, on timber it's no problem, steel it is. 

Steel framed homes always have flatter ceilings though, always. The steel truss and furring channel system is great. Always way better than timber trusses and joist system.

Have spoken to some aircon installers, and they don't like steel. They've said that steel trusses engineered to minimum specs and don't account for added weight of Aircon units and solar panels. But apparently timber is over engineered? IDK how true that is.

The guys putting up the steel frames here do a really good job, they care more than the guys doing the timber work. Which probably helps steel seem better. 

I rented a steel framed home that was 2 years old. Rented it for 4 years. Thermally, it sucked for its specs. It was noisy in the wind, in general creaked a lot. It moved so much a door wouldn't close, the drywall above the door cracked, (the sheet, not a join). The brickwork moved so much it cracked and the render fell off and the quad for the eaves was 15mm away from the pricks. The skirtings developed 7mm gaps in the corners. cornice cracked. Having said that, the frame isn't the only thing that causes movement, but based on the experience of that house, we opted to build a timber framed house.


Edit. Noggin = blocking. (i think)


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Wow Sheep, Interesting post you made :blink:


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

The transportable home we used to do were all steel they were absolute ****house welded noggins ect ect made life hard.....but a badly framed timber home can be just as bad...
Commercial stud and track walls and suspended ceilings which I have done myself is what I dream of because I know if I frame it its ****in straight and makes shadow line 10 times easier 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> Metal just can't compete cost wise when comparing structural metal to wood. I was hoping the Aussies or Van might chime in on whether or not they use them in non combustible construction? Here, construction Type's 1 and 2 must use metal? If you want to build something dead nuts on you can do it with metal.
> I was taught by the Carpenters union that a majority of our lumber in the US is southern yellow pine. What about down under?


Only seen metal used 1 time here and that was just a partition!:blink:
It's all kiln dried wood that's then left outside in the timber yards in the p*ssing rain/snow!!!!
Go figure that 1 out.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

VANMAN said:


> Only seen metal used 1 time here and that was just a partition!:blink:
> It's all kiln dried wood that's then left outside in the timber yards in the p*ssing rain/snow!!!!
> Go figure that 1 out.


I guess were really not that far apart are we Van! Same chit here!!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> I guess were really not that far apart are we Van! Same chit here!!


Yea Mr Moore looks like it!
It's a f*ckin joke really. And they wonder why the houses turn to chit after the heating goes on!!:furious:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

We have a lot of Amish framing crews in my area. Don't be fooled by the term "Amish craftsmanship". Most I've followed are hacks. They don't crown lumber or even look at it, or pay attention to detail. 
Trusses are usually upwards of an inch higher than the interior partitions. Then they fix nailers on the top plates without compensating the difference.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> We have a lot of Amish framing crews in my area. Don't be fooled by the term "Amish craftsmanship". Most I've followed are hacks. They don't crown lumber or even look at it, or pay attention to detail.
> Trusses are usually upwards of an inch higher than the interior partitions. Then they fix nailers on the top plates without compensating the difference.


Thats perfect PA, they have left enough room for steel battens. :thumbsup:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> I guess were really not that far apart are we Van! Same chit here!!


And another thing is a company I work for has started using rc channel stuff on the ceilings instead of double sheeting! (Must b regulations for noise) And the butt joints r as bad as if they were just screwed to the out of whack joists!!!!:furious:
Gaz ur the man with that stuff, Should it not help or do this dipchits not no what they r doing with the stuff????


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> And another thing is a company I work for has started using rc channel stuff on the ceilings instead of double sheeting! (Must b regulations for noise) And the butt joints r as bad as if they were just screwed to the out of whack joists!!!!:furious:
> Gaz ur the man with that stuff, Should it not help or do this dipchits not no what they r doing with the stuff????


Our battens are different from RC, ours are not fixed on one edge like RC. With the butt joins they should land on the batten, but half way between. That allows you to form a rebate, this can be done a number of different ways, but boards is the quickest and easiest, bending battens is probably the cheapest and does a great job, then there is the rebate mate, it takes time but does a great job. Both of the last two methods need to be back blocked. But they allow you to box your buts, and finish with a 12" .


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Why is it I can c u replied Gaz but I can't c it?
Bet after I post this it will come up.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

gazman said:


> Our battens are different from RC, ours are not fixed on one edge like RC. With the butt joins they should land on the batten, but half way between. That allows you to form a rebate, this can be done a number of different ways, but boards is the quickest and easiest, bending battens is probably the cheapest and does a great job, then there is the rebate mate, it takes time but does a great job. Both of the last two methods need to be back blocked. But they allow you to box your buts, and finish with a 12" .


Yea got it now!!
No probs Gaz maybe some1 will chime in!:thumbsup:
I'm still sure these dipchits have no clue what they r meant to b doing:furious:


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> Our battens are different from RC, ours are not fixed on one edge like RC.


we have a similar product Gaz - Furring Channel......I use it for every ceiling


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

keke said:


> we have a similar product Gaz - Furring Channel......I use it for every ceiling


I know all about furring channel Keke, I useit quite often. Rc is different, check out the pic in the link.
http://www.homteamdesign.com/blog/u...proofed-ceiling-ontop-of-an-existing-ceiling/


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> I know all about furring channel Keke, I useit quite often. Rc is different, check out the pic in the link.
> http://www.homteamdesign.com/blog/u...proofed-ceiling-ontop-of-an-existing-ceiling/


I know the RC....but I want to mention that furring channel is a similar product that can be screwed on the ege


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## Sweendog87 (Apr 5, 2015)

gazman said:


> I know all about furring channel Keke, I useit quite often. Rc is different, check out the pic in the link.
> http://www.homteamdesign.com/blog/u...proofed-ceiling-ontop-of-an-existing-ceiling/



Would that really make much of a different in noise reduction doesn't seem like it would do too much 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Sweendog87 said:


> Would that really make much of a different in noise reduction doesn't seem like it would do too much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It must work sween, but I would rather use furring channel and resilient mounts.

http://www.gyprock.com.au/Pages/Products/Tools-Tapes-Accessories/Resilient-Mount.aspx


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Resilient channel, or RC-1 as it is called here works by reducing contact points to minimize sound transference. Drywall furring channel (hat rack) while similar is really designed for a different purpose like suspended ceilings, or the bottom of trusses. A few years ago the suspended ceiling manufacturers came out with a system similar to T-bar where the cross tees are 4' hat rack snap in that is widely used in commercial here.


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