# Hanging DW on hat channels



## AllThumbs

Hanging DW ceiling:
Given hat channels spaced 24" inches apart, how do you hang DW and share a hat channel (HC) . To do wo woudl require that the DW pice start on the 1st hat channel , and with the HC 24" apart each DW piece can be secured to 3 HC's- however the 1st hat channel is not flush with the wall (no space to do so), there's a 10" gap between it and the wall.
How do you DW that 10" gap.
If you put a 10" wide piceof DW it will only have that one hat channel to secure to
If on the other hand you start the DW flush with the wall, it won't have 3 hat channels to secure to.


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## chris

AllThumbs said:


> Hanging DW ceiling:
> Given hat channels spaced 24" inches apart, how do you hang DW and share a hat channel (HC) . To do wo woudl require that the DW pice start on the 1st hat channel , and with the HC 24" apart each DW piece can be secured to 3 HC's- however the 1st hat channel is not flush with the wall (no space to do so), there's a 10" gap between it and the wall.
> How do you DW that 10" gap.
> If you put a 10" wide piceof DW it will only have that one hat channel to secure to
> If on the other hand you start the DW flush with the wall, it won't have 3 hat channels to secure to.


 add another piece of hat


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## AllThumbs

chris said:


> add another piece of hat


 
I have the same problem on the other side where the HC is about 4" from the wall - no room to add a hat. So it'd have DW side by side, until this extra 4" which would only have one HC


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## Soultear

How you guys build suspended ceilings?? There should be steel angle around the perimeter of the ceiling to secure the drywall to? Someone cheated.


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## Soultear

AllThumbs said:


> Hanging DW ceiling:
> Given hat channels spaced 24" inches apart, how do you hang DW and share a hat channel (HC) . To do wo woudl require that the DW pice start on the 1st hat channel , and with the HC 24" apart each DW piece can be secured to 3 HC's- however the 1st hat channel is not flush with the wall (no space to do so), there's a 10" gap between it and the wall.
> How do you DW that 10" gap.
> If you put a 10" wide piceof DW it will only have that one hat channel to secure to
> If on the other hand you start the DW flush with the wall, it won't have 3 hat channels to secure to.











First off with this picture(just found a quick reference from google) they are laying the drywall in the wrong direction. The Drywall bevel should not be going with the HC but against it. Hope you get the point.


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## Jason

The instructions for hanging sheets are printed on the inside of the paper. Just peel the paper off a board and you'll read everything you need to know.


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## Mudshark

.Thanks for the pic SoulTear. There is your answer AllThumbs, what the diagram labels L-angle, often referred to as shiny 90


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## chris

I think he is attaching hat to wood.. cant use 90 in that app. run hat channel around perimeter instead


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## AllThumbs

Soultear said:


> View attachment 2982
> 
> 
> First off with this picture(just found a quick reference from google) they are laying the drywall in the wrong direction. The Drywall bevel should not be going with the HC but against it. Hope you get the point.


 
thanks - I think this answers my Q.

I was laying the DW along with the HC's. Laid across them, I don't think I have a problem.

thx


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## AllThumbs

Soultear said:


> View attachment 2982
> 
> 
> First off with this picture(just found a quick reference from google) they are laying the drywall in the wrong direction. The Drywall bevel should not be going with the HC but against it. Hope you get the point.


To confirm - I have 3 layers of 5/8" DW (sound proofing) and each DW sheet is supported by 4 HCs (laid across them). Note: the 3 layers are staggered such that only the 1st and third layer are in the same spot (have seems lined up). 
e.g. Layers 1 & 3 supported by Hat Channel # 1,2,3,4
Layer 2 supported by HC # 2,3,4,5
Is that sufficient support?


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## AllThumbs

also - I'm limiting the # of places that the hat channel is secured (via "whisper clips") to the joists (sound proofing). Which option provides better structural support?
(a) clips at : 4" from wall, 10" from wall, 58" from wall
(b) clips at: 4" from wall, 26" from wall 58" from wall


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## Trim-Tex

My 2 cents: 1.use hat channel with isolation clips 

http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.aspx 

2. on top of hat, one layer of fiberous sound board 3. Acoustic caulk all perimiter edges and openings 4. 5/8 drywall directly on top of that 5. acoustic caulk perimeter again and add red fire tape if required 6. Install hollow crown molding to further isolate perimeter from sound transfer or EZ Tray layer or regular layer of 1/2" drywall with our Super Seal Tear away L bead finishing the layer against the wall ( gasket really stops sound transfer and there is no taping of the inside corner) 7. Finish show side of layer with one of our seven L beads 

Please note that sound will travel through the smallest of holes and cracks even if you have 3 layers in the middle. Attention to detail is very important!

Joe


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## Ted White

Pretty expensive clips considering they are not the top performer. 

Anyway, the channel spacing for double 5/8" drwall is 24 x 48. Channel is spaced 24", and clips every 48" along the channel.

Clip pattern for three sheets of 5/8" is 16 x 48.


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Pretty expensive clips considering they are not the top performer.
> 
> Anyway, the channel spacing for double 5/8" drwall is 24 x 48. Channel is spaced 24", and clips every 48" along the channel.
> 
> Clip pattern for three sheets of 5/8" is 16 x 48.


I have 16 joists, with #1 and #16 inaccessible - blocked by an existing wall approx. 12" from that joist (thus the ceiling is only going up to these wall. I've added 2x6's to create joists 12" from the inaccessible joists.
Thus my joists are (relative to 1st joist (the inaccessible one):
0", (wall), *12", 16", 32","48",...,, 240", * 244",(wall) , 256"

I've currently staggered the clips in 2 formations (7 clips in each formation):
Formation A: 12",16",64","112",160",208",244"
Formation B: 12",32",80",128",176",224",244"

Formations run the width of the ceiling (distance from side walls) are 4", 28", 52", 76", 100",*112", (wall 6" away)

Is this correct/ optimal for sound isolation and structural support?


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## Ted White

Didn't the distributor of the clips provide a detailed manual with all of this?


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## AllThumbs

nope


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## Ted White

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you one of ours


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you one of ours


thanks, that's very nice and appreciated. guess I bought from the wrong place.
PM sent


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## Ted White

email sent. Let us know if that answers your questions. The clip spacing as well as the correct (25 gauge) steel channel are critical to get the sound isolation we're after.


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## Mudshark

That was very good of you Ted :thumbsup:


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## Ted White

Thanks, but it would be really tragic to have ALL Thumbs go to all this length and have an installation error. I'd like this to go well for him regardless of where he bought the stuff.


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> email sent. Let us know if that answers your questions. The clip spacing as well as the correct (25 gauge) steel channel are critical to get the sound isolation we're after.


thanks, - it seems that I mistyped my email (d'oh) - I've PM'd the correct addy.
thx


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## Ted White

OK. I sent another to you. Take a peek and see if it all makes sense.


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## AllThumbs

thanks very helpful - looks like I need to rearrainge a few clips.
thanks.


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## AllThumbs

SHoudl I hang the DW flush to the wall, so that the entire thing is kinda wedged up there, or should I allow a tiny bit of room in order for the ceiling to move freely (pass on less LFE ?) (of course acoustically seal the gaps?


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## Ted White

Shoot for this: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com...oofing-tip-ceiling-to-wall-seam-intersection/


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## Mudshark

It sounds like board as tight as you can and fill the gaps if any with sealant.


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## Ted White

As well as the staggering of the seams


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## AllThumbs

also how do I connect the 2 hat channels together (the .pdf shows for using on wall). (srew together in the sides. Is it different for ceilings? Also is it OK if I screwed them together (top to bottow) connecting the parts that connects to the DW will gravity pull the screws down/apart from the hat channels or do I have to redo?


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## AllThumbs

Also - do I need to apply acousitcal sealant to all 3 layers of DW (making DW - GG- DW- GG - DW) or only the outer one?


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Shoot for this: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com...oofing-tip-ceiling-to-wall-seam-intersection/


thx - no gaps it is.


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## AllThumbs

says fine thread DW screws to attach DW to hat channles - I heard coarse thread.
Thanks Ted. (guess I'll need to buy another box )


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## chris

I would use course unless it is a hvy gauge steel which I doubt. Fine threads will work but do not use selftappers


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## AllThumbs

chris said:


> I would use course unless it is a hvy gauge steel which I doubt. Fine threads will work but do not use selftappers


 
it's 25 gauge -
that means course?


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## Ted White

The 25 gauge steel channel needs fine thread screws to secure the drywall to the channel.

Do not use a drywall screw to attach the clip to the framing. Use a heavier deck screw (coarse) instead.


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> The 25 gauge steel channel needs fine thread screws to secure the drywall to the channel.
> 
> Do not use a drywall screw to attach the clip to the framing. Use a heavier deck screw (coarse) instead.


thanks
I used 1 1/4" coarse dry wall screw to attach the clips to the joists - replace?


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## Ted White

Yes, replace


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Yes, replace


Since I woudl be replacing screws (i.e. there's already a hole in the wood from the screws that I have in already) do I lose any structural support gain - since the new deck screws woudl need to go into those same holes made by the dry wall screws? Also aren't DW screws made to screw into wood and hold very heavy loads? - i.e. what is the weight load it can handle?


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## Ted White

OK to use same hole. Drywall screws have among the lowest shear strength of any screw. The heads twist off easily.


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> OK to use same hole. Drywall screws have among the lowest shear strength of any screw. The heads twist off easily.


 OK off to get 1 1/4" coarse deck screws (to attach clips to joists) and a box of 2 1/2" fine thread DW screws (I'm putting up 3 layers and planning to put only a few screws in layers 1 and 2 (to hold them up until I get to layer 3) with which I'll use the 2 1/2" fine thread DW screws (which ends up attaching all 3 layers) - that being the case I'm assuming that for the 1st 2 layers my existing coarse thread screws are OK. ?
Today's my day to put it up!!


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## Ted White

Sounds like a good strategy. And you have a 16" x 48" clip spacing to handle the triple load?


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Sounds like a good strategy. And you have a 16" x 48" clip spacing to handle the triple load?


Not yet, currently I have the layout as in the attached pdf
(note blue dotted lines represent how I am laying the DW (suggestions appreciated)

greenish shading at ends of HT represent 2x6's added by me. 
Q:
being that each clip is rated at somethign like 36-37lbs and I currently have 42 clips = about 1,500 pounds of weight load capacity. Ceiling is 21x11 x 2.31 lbs/sq ft (for 5/8" DW) x 3 layers = 1600 pounds. Thus can I put in 2 add'l rows between the one currently spaced 24" apart (thus giving me from wall 8" + 24" + 12" + 12" + 24" + 12" + 12" + 12" (wall 8" away). This would give me 14 add'l clips - giving me close to 2,000 lb capacity? This woudl save me from having (a) move existing channels (b) redo the 2x6's that I put on the end.


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## AllThumbs

OR am I better off with just 2 layers of DW and leave furring channels as is.
Of course I want this to be structurally sound. But my #1 concern is to keep the subwoofer LFE out of the rest of the house. Perhaps leaving at 24" and usign just 2 layers of DW/GG is better than mostly 12" and 3 layers?


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## Ted White

I would really suggest trying to accomodate the 16" x 48" pattern to get your third sheet of 5/8"


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> I would really suggest trying to accomodate the 16" x 48" pattern to get your third sheet of 5/8"


You're tuff (*but I appreciate that*)

to confirm: this gives me:
wall + 8" + 16" + 16" + 16" + 16" + 16" + 16" + 13"+ wall
Is the DW layout and piecing in the excess in my diagram OK?


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## Ted White

Keep in mind that you're treating the ceiling only and bass will travel through the walls and floor as well. Less of a floor issue if this is in a basement on a slab.

On the ceiling, the first row is a few inches from the wall. Then the next row is 16" from the wall. Then the next row is 32" from the wall.

The last row of channel should be close to the other wall.


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## AllThumbs

how many screws should I use to secure the 1st layer of DW panels until I get to put up the next layer - 4? 5? more?


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## Ted White

I wouldn't go too light. Sure would be a bummer to have a sheet partially let loose. 

All screws go back to the channel. No laminating screws.

You are not applying a damping compound to the board?


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## AllThumbs

do i need acoustical caulk on every layer or just the final one?


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## Ted White

Try and keep all drywall conections tight, then seal after the last layer


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> I wouldn't go too light. Sure would be a bummer to have a sheet partially let loose.
> 
> All screws go back to the channel. No laminating screws.
> 
> You are not applying a damping compound to the board?


putting GG

How many screws would you recommend per sheet for layers 1 and 2?
also I'm assuming 16 screws for final layer / sheet - is that correct?
What are laminating screws?

re: damping : putting up 1st layer of DW bare (no GG) , the apply 2nd layer of DW with GG, then apply 3rd layer of DW with GG.


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## Ted White

Good on the GG

I'd screw layers #1 and #2 at 12" apart along the track. Then shoot the third layer per code there. 

Laminating screws go from one drywall layer to another, no stud / joist connection. Not good


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Good on the GG
> 
> I'd screw layers #1 and #2 at 12" apart along the track. Then shoot the third layer per code there.
> 
> Laminating screws go from one drywall layer to another, no stud / joist connection. Not good


gotcha - no laminating screws here - all screws going from DW - up into hat channel
re: GG putting 1 3/4 tube of GG on each panel x2 layers


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## Ted White

So almost 2 tubes per 4x8 sheet. That's fine


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## Ted White

Did they at least give you a Green Glue installation manual?


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## AllThumbs

lol - :-(
let's just say I now know where I need to buy from next time.


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## Ted White

Are you near a computer? I can shoot you one of our manuals.


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## AllThumbs

Ted White said:


> Are you near a computer? I can shoot you one of our manuals.


 yep, thx - very appreciated.


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## Ted White

OK, check your email. See how that manual works for you


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## AllThumbs

I ran into an obstruction a pipe along the wall resulting in one panel being about an inch maybe 1 1/2 inches from the wall
This is the first layer and I think the next 2 layers will clear the pipe and rest flush against the wall
Do I need to do anything?


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## Ted White

Can that first layer be notched around the pipe or maybe that pipe is running a long ways. If not able to notch, then just make sure the next two layers meet the wall. 

Also, if adding wall drywall, alternate ceiling - wall - ceiling.


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## AllThumbs

Unfortunately the pipe is running long ways
Only ceiling, walls already done.


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## Ted White

I wouldn't worry about it. Also, I'd avoid contact with that pipe by a 1/4" or so


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## AllThumbs

Oops,i put the DW pressed up against the pipe (has foam insulation around the pipe)


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## AllThumbs

Is that a danger or can I leave it?


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## Ted White

Leave it, I'd say


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## Jason

Joke's on you, "peng." None of us drywallers have enough money to hire a prostitute.

Try PlumberChat.com :whistling2:


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