# Coating NO COAT



## chris

Been boxing my NO Coat tight with 8" and 10" looks fricken SWEEET:thumbup: does anybody else?


----------



## moore

chris said:


> Been boxing my NO Coat tight with 8" and 10" looks fricken SWEEET:thumbup: does anybody else?


yes chris I Level out my no coat after application .. still not sure why they call it no coat.:blink:


----------



## chris

think bcause you dont have to coat bead ...you know like a 1/2" in from bead b4 the flap or crease on outside corners same with inside corners..stay outta the middle:thumbsup:...I think


----------



## 2buckcanuck

there's a product called mid flex, it should be the product that's called no-coat. your could probably finish this product with a nail spotter, but we don't. The no-coat takes way more mud. But I'm talking 45 degree inside angles.

Guess we can finally get the pre-cut no-coat, but it's still too much $$$$$$.

Are you talking no-coat on beads or 45's (maybe a dumb ??)

http://www.fantastictools.com/p-1248-mid-flex-drywall-tape.aspx


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> there's a product called mid flex, it should be the product that's called no-coat. your could probably finish this product with a nail spotter, but we don't. The no-coat takes way more mud. But I'm talking 45 degree inside angles.
> 
> Guess we can finally get the pre-cut no-coat, but it's still too much $$$$$$.
> 
> Are you talking no-coat on beads or 45's (maybe a dumb ??)
> 
> http://www.fantastictools.com/p-1248-mid-flex-drywall-tape.aspx


mid-flex straight flex ,,, same thing ,, I don't trust either one. even still they both have to be leveled out after application . the print side is slick.. The white side has a fuzz to it , always apply print side out.:blink:then x your fingers.,,,, and hope for the best... hone:


----------



## chris

On both. Have used 3.25 and the big on inside open angles for a while now(used to just hotmud and use rubber knife t round)but recently been using on ouside 90,s and 45,s the box works good on both,pre-cuts also. Just wonderin if anybody else uses boxes to coat


----------



## 2buckcanuck

chris said:


> On both. Have used 3.25 and the big on inside open angles for a while now(used to just hotmud and use rubber knife t round)but recently been using on ouside 90,s and 45,s the box works good on both,pre-cuts also. Just wonderin if anybody else uses boxes to coat


IMO, the no-coat on the bead, would work with the boxes, they take a lot less mud, and I can see the no-coat being the #1 bead world wide one day.

The no-coat is the only bead I would experiment with using boxes, from what I seen on you tube. Don't think I would be keen on doing the forty fives that way. to me putting the 45's on is the pain,not coating them so.......


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> mid-flex straight flex ,,, same thing ,, I don't trust either one. even still they both have to be leveled out after application . the print side is slick.. The white side has a fuzz to it , always apply print side out.:blink:then x your fingers.,,,, and hope for the best... hone:


No no no, straight flex is a garbage product, no-coat and mid flex are Kick a$$ products, there's lots of old post about this on here.

watch this vid:yes:


----------



## smisner50s

Yep I box nocoat all day long


chris said:


> Been boxing my NO Coat tight with 8" and 10" looks fricken SWEEET:thumbup: does anybody else?


----------



## moore

YEAH no coat is hands down the best .. but I don't see the difference between straight flex ,and mid flex ,,,,, same thing?? I'm a hard head.
so.......:whistling2:


----------



## cazna

The DM 5.5 flatbox is great for No Coat.


----------



## Mudstar

I have experience with no-coat corner bead and it takes more mud then paper

Also it sucks to work because you have to press way harder to set the bead and if the corner is out of square you have to crown fill the corner.

JS


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> YEAH no coat is hands down the best .. but I don't see the difference between straight flex ,and mid flex ,,,,, same thing?? I'm a hard head.
> so.......:whistling2:


Ok hard head:jester:
The no-coat and mid-flex are more alike, the no-coat is thicker in comparison, while the mid-flex is way more thinner, they are both a paper based products. I find when loading the no-coat on 45' insides, you got to load fairly close to the point (blue line), so they take a lot more mud. they take a bit more attention to detail when checking with light etc. the no-coat is good for fixing crooked stuff too.

the mid-flex should be called no-coat b/c you keep away from the point (black line) and just coat the edges. You will see all the back lines when finished, very easy to sand out too. it can scare you how little mud goes on them. It lays way flatter/tighter to the wall b/c it is so thin.

Straight flex is all vinyl, not paper based,and it's junk b/c it can pop off. and you would know this if you read through all the post:yes:


----------



## Bevelation

Mudstar said:


> I have experience with no-coat corner bead and it takes more mud then paper
> 
> Also it sucks to work because you have to press way harder to set the bead and if the corner is out of square you have to crown fill the corner.
> 
> JS


You may have experience, but the part of the install where you save on mud vs paper is more up to you and how you want to install NO COAT. You can install it with a ¼" fill gap if you want, or 1/16". You decide.

Yes, I agree you have to press hard. There are tricks to make it all work so the corner will look straight and always take just a little fill.


----------



## Bevelation

For the OP: No, I do not coat my NO COAT with my flatbox. I usually install it and coat it the same day and I don't like hitting it with the box if it hasn't bonded and dried 100% yet.


----------



## cazna

I use a wooden wallpaper seam roller for bedding the No Coat, It makes a great job of flattining it out and its easier than trying to press it down with a knife, One backwipe to fill then one finsih coat and its sorted :thumbsup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> I use a wooden wallpaper seam roller for bedding the No Coat, It makes a great job of flattining it out and its easier than trying to press it down with a knife, One backwipe to fill then one finsih coat and its sorted :thumbsup:


These things here cazna http://www.o-geepaint.com/Wallpaper/Wallpaper.shtml

If I'm wrong, please post a picture of the roller, and don't forget to have some sheep in the back ground


----------



## Mudshark

cazna said:


> I use a wooden wallpaper seam roller for bedding the No Coat, It makes a great job of flattining it out and its easier than trying to press it down with a knife, One backwipe to fill then one finsih coat and its sorted :thumbsup:


Interesting - might try that one out - should work as well for regular paper and metal bead as well? Another tool for the tool kit.


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> These things here cazna http://www.o-geepaint.com/Wallpaper/Wallpaper.shtml
> 
> If I'm wrong, please post a picture of the roller, and don't forget to have some sheep in the back ground


 
Its the little wooden roller, You would need one like this with one support arm, Its a little smaller in width than the no coat plastic so it puts the mud to the paper, it dosnt roll the paper so it dosnt get messy, Just wipe the paper with a knife, The roller is much better than trying to push it out with a corner of a knife, Its Firmer and dosnt damge the no coat paper like forcing it with a knife can, Im sure you all know how much of a nusience damaged no coat paper is, And the roller dosnt seem to leave "Bumps" as wiping with a knife sometimes can.

See the other paint roller and yellow foam 5mm nap sleeve, Thats other type of roller i use to bed fibafuse on smaller jobs with hot muds, Its great, Never tryed it with paper, Would prob work.

And look what else i made in the shed today, Kiwiman has a tube with a wide mouth he uses to fill a banjo or flatbox so i thought i might get one, Got a price and they are $500, Screw that, so off to the plumbing shop i go, They gave me a peice of pipe so i played heat gun with a vice and fitted it to my short can am and bugger a sheep it worked :thumbsup:

They are a couple of WW2 british army kero hurlock stoves im fixing up, And hang on, WTF, is that a couple of sheep??? Were did they come from?? I swear im not into sheep, Well, Maybe on weekends :blink:


----------



## Kiwiman

Good stuff!!! :thumbsup: Did you have to fit an inner sleeve to get the pipe to fit or was it a similar size anyway?


----------



## cazna

Kiwiman said:


> Good stuff!!! :thumbsup: Did you have to fit an inner sleeve to get the pipe to fit or was it a similar size anyway?


It was a pressure pipe with the flange on the end so another pipe the same could fit, Quite thick plastic, It was 60mm internal diameter, The can am is 57mm, I heated it and rolled it with a peice of plywood for a tighter fit, Its a little too tight now, it compresses when it cools so reheating dont work, I have a sanding disc on a drill im going to sand it to a perfect fit then put a couple of cuts down the side then hose clip it on. Its still work in progress but im 90% there now, It was much easier than i thought it would be.

To make the spout i had a peice of alloy 5mm thick 75mm long 45mm high and put it in the tube and clamped it to this, Otherwise it all turns to custard.


----------



## Kiwiman

cazna said:


> It was a pressure pipe with the flange on the end so another pipe the same could fit, Quite thick plastic, It was 60mm internal diameter, The can am is 57mm, I heated it and rolled it with a peice of plywood for a tighter fit, Its a little too tight now, it compresses when it cools so reheating dont work, I have a sanding disc on a drill im going to sand it to a perfect fit then put a couple of cuts down the side then hose clip it on. Its still work in progress but im 90% there now, It was much easier than i thought it would be.
> 
> To make the spout i had a peice of alloy 5mm thick 75mm long 45mm high and put it in the tube and clamped it to this, Otherwise it all turns to custard.


Clever man! You might not need to hose clip it, mine is snug fit and a bit of a wiggle and a twist and it comes off easy enough, a bit of lube before fitting helps, the mouth/opening on my tube is 8mm. Watch out...here comes 2Buck, I presume he'll connect the snug fit and the lube with the sheep in the pic :yes:.


----------



## Workaholic

cazna said:


> I swear im not into sheep, Well, Maybe on weekends :blink:


No pun intended right. That was hilarious. :laughing:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Its the little wooden roller, You would need one like this with one support arm, Its a little smaller in width than the no coat plastic so it puts the mud to the paper, it dosnt roll the paper so it dosnt get messy, Just wipe the paper with a knife, The roller is much better than trying to push it out with a corner of a knife, Its Firmer and dosnt damge the no coat paper like forcing it with a knife can, Im sure you all know how much of a nusience damaged no coat paper is, And the roller dosnt seem to leave "Bumps" as wiping with a knife sometimes can.
> 
> See the other paint roller and yellow foam 5mm nap sleeve, Thats other type of roller i use to bed fibafuse on smaller jobs with hot muds, Its great, Never tryed it with paper, Would prob work.
> 
> And look what else i made in the shed today, Kiwiman has a tube with a wide mouth he uses to fill a banjo or flatbox so i thought i might get one, Got a price and they are $500, Screw that, so off to the plumbing shop i go, They gave me a peice of pipe so i played heat gun with a vice and fitted it to my short can am and bugger a sheep it worked
> 
> They are a couple of WW2 british army kero hurlock stoves im fixing up, And hang on, WTF, is that a couple of sheep??? Were did they come from?? I swear im not into sheep, Well, Maybe on weekends :blink:


You almost made me pooh in my pants from laughing when I 1st seen that pic this morning:furious:

Not a bad idea from a painter:whistling2:, to use the roller thing on the no-coat. We use the handle of the knife if there's just a few of them, but use the corner roller if there's a lot. It's always in the back of my mind to make some thing for the no-coat. maybe I will duct tape 2 of those together, so it does both sides at once......but I do have a idea up my sleeve to make one. Then I will sell my Idea to Rhardman for a trillion dollars :whistling2:

The odd time, when your short a pump or something? we have jerry rigged up the CP tube to fill the box. We would stick a copper tube over the ball/end, and hammer the one end flat so it would fit into the slit of the box more easily. Yours and kiwiman's invention would hurt the poor sheep too much !!!!!!!!............MEANIES :furious:


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> You almost made me pooh in my pants from laughing when I 1st seen that pic this morning:furious:


 
Glad i could help with your bowel movements :blink:, I thought you would like them :whistling2:

That little roller works well, I havent thought to mention it before. So will that fitting for the tube, Tapepro makes a mudshark thing for there tube which is like that.


----------



## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> You almost made me pooh in my pants from laughing when I 1st seen that pic this morning:furious:


Isn't old age a B1tch


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Here's two pic's of the mid-flex, the stuff goes on tighter than the no-coat. We always load to the black vertical line, but it never takes a fill, that's how tight they go on. These are finish sanded.


----------



## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Here's two pic's of the mid-flex, the stuff goes on tighter than the no-coat. We always load to the black vertical line, but it never takes a fill, that's how tight they go on. These are finish sanded.


What is the difference between straightflex and midflex? is one softer or thinner or wider or something?


----------



## chris

does any1 use the no coat roller?


----------



## mudslingr

chris said:


> does any1 use the no coat roller?


Outside roller works great chris ! But I only use it on 20ft or longer stretches. We don't have NoCoat sticks here. Rolls only.


----------



## Jason

chris said:


> does any1 use the no coat roller?


I used it for years but it overkicks without adjustment. Ultimately went back to fingers but that's only because the studwall in my manufactured housing is atrocious. Recently moved to vinyl because of the NC price bump.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> What is the difference between straightflex and midflex? is one softer or thinner or wider or something?


Well????????

I think straight flex to most of us (speculating here) was this here product http://store.straitflex.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=SB-50 

It was a pure vinyl based product. The concept was a good idea, except the vinyl was not. Down the road, the product could break free or not adhere as well as a paper based products.

So I'm guessing mid flex, is one of their answers to no-coat.

Maybe we should email straight flex:yes:


----------



## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Well????????
> 
> I think straight flex to most of us (speculating here) was this here product http://store.straitflex.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=SB-50
> 
> It was a pure vinyl based product. The concept was a good idea, except the vinyl was not. Down the road, the product could break free or not adhere as well as a paper based products.
> 
> So I'm guessing mid flex, is one of their answers to no-coat.
> 
> Maybe we should email straight flex:yes:


I'm a lazy bugger, I could've just googled it . I've had no problems with strightflex but if you don't use it right I can see how there would be problems, I've used no-coat, its good stuff but 2.5 times the price here. 
I might try that midflex next, cheers :thumbsup:


----------



## cazna

Kiwiman said:


> I'm a lazy bugger, I could've just googled it . I've had no problems with strightflex but if you don't use it right I can see how there would be problems, I've used no-coat, its good stuff but 2.5 times the price here.
> I might try that midflex next, cheers :thumbsup:


That midflex looks ok, Do we even have it here???


----------



## Kiwiman

cazna said:


> That midflex looks ok, Do we even have it here???


I just found some on the trowel trades website but no prices.


----------



## jmr

i use midflex, no coat and level line... 










but i have to say, level line is better then midflex... its no coats mid flex basically.. it lays down much better then midflex.. and its cheaper.

but i like midflex as well..


----------



## Cmoe

*Mid Flex*

Fellas,
StraitFlex and Mid-Flex are the same....in the way that StraitFlex is the company that produces Mid-Flex. However StratFlex "Original" and Mid-Flex are not. Mid-Flex is a laminated paper/ composite PVC product. It comes in two sizes, 2 1/2" and 3". When you step to the 4" the product name changes to Wide-Flex. The paper face of these products are treated so that they can be sanded and painted without a complete covering of mud. The apex or nose of the tape has a PUR coating to protect it from your knife during the coating process. What is nice about this coating is that it only covers the face so that the back side can still allow for mud and glue absorbing into the pores of the paper. The competitor's paper's pores are saturated with latex which does not allow for a true bond. The Mid-Flex line also has a diamond perforation that is second to none. A quick visual comparison alone will confirm this not to mention applying both products side by side with AP, letting them dry and ripping them off to test adhesion. The ONLY advantage that No-Coat can call out over the Mid-Flex line is that it is a touch more rigid and I'm not so sure that it is that much of an advantage. The Mid-Flex line is anywhere from $4 to $15 cheaper per role. 

Do like I did...your home work...call or email StraitFlex, request a product catalog and some free samples. They truly love your feed back and care about making the Finishing Trade better for cheaper. They have products that I never knew existed. They are all different. Many of us guys get them mixed up and when companies are charging crazy amounts of money for their products its nice to see someone who produces a quality product with a price that speaks to the guys in the field.


----------



## Jason

The Straitflex hinge was spring-city. The No Coat didn't fight at all.

Homework's done.


----------



## GypsumGod

I agree with Cmoe. StraitFlex is a lot easier to work with and a lot cheaper. I had a hard time cutting NoCoat and it was so thick that it would not lay down and would spring off. I love the MidFlex 300. I use the 400 when I have bad outside angles to work with. The StraitFlex is fuzzier on the back of their pvc with a fiber so it bonds a lot better. Lots of spark perferations too. My buddies and I did some adhesion tests with both products and they have converted too. I like their sticks too

I also had problems with the NoCoat edges warping and buckling. It was a pain to keep wiping them down to lie flat.


----------



## gazman

Gday Guys. I am only new to the forum so I dont want to rain on anyones parade. But I have been using Nocoat for internal off angles for some time and I think it is awsome. We use a roller made by Ezybead which is adjustable from 90 - 135 degrees. We first load the angle with hot mud with a wash brush (dont laugh you would be very surprised how well it works:thumbup install the Nocoat and then roll it in and clean off with a knife works a treat.


----------



## Cmoe

Jason......What product did you use?


----------



## RocknRoller

Setting coat plus 2to finish :blink: They should change the name to 3Coats


----------



## Goodmanatee

Roller looks sweet. 
Does it find the correct angle its self or do you have to manually adjust?


----------



## Jason

Cmoe said:


> Jason......What product did you use?


 
Straitflex, but it was many moons ago so don't know the size. Maybe they changed the recipe since then. It was dreadful stuff I had though.

A long time ago, Clyde/Billy on W&C mentioned that folding it each way a few times will loosen up the hinge but I never went back to it to give his suggestion a shot.


----------



## gazman

You have to adjust the roller by hand. Before you start you loosed the two nobs, put the roller in the intenal adjust it to the corect angle and tighten the nobs. All of ten seconds worth. Do that once and away you go.


----------



## evolve991

moore said:


> yes chris I Level out my no coat after application .. still not sure why they call it no coat.:blink:


ya know I was wondering the same thing...but then I'm just a hanger:whistling2:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

here's a up close pic of the mid-flex, this is bottom side of a cathedral so.....bevell on top and bottom. The one on the left is installed and dry, well the one on the right is freashly coated. Seems no matter how you install the stuff, it always takes a tight load. It was loaded keeping a knife a 1/4" from the black center line.


----------



## fenez

2buck you are 100 percent right... the mid flex is every bit as good if not better for 45's as no coat. it installs quicker and finishes quicker and is just as straight. oh and it's much cheaper


----------



## JustMe

jmr said:


> i use midflex, no coat and level line...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but i have to say, level line is better then midflex... its no coats mid flex basically.. it lays down much better then midflex.. and its cheaper.
> 
> but i like midflex as well..


I didn't see any comments on jmr's Levelline preference over Mid-Flex. Anyone else tried Levelline and found it to be better? Or worse?


----------



## moore

I found this in a bucket of usg [the gray mud] USG.com/crackfreecorners
sheetrock has there own vinyl '' no-coat'' old news probably .. I like the gray usg a/p sloooww drying ,,, but smooth ,,and hides well . the white dries faster but doesn't hide as well . Today I applied 220 ft of 450 no-coat 80 boards [54s mostly] 11' It was fun,,, I LOVE NO-COAT!


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> I found this in a bucket of usg [the gray mud] USG.com/crackfreecorners
> sheetrock has there own vinyl '' no-coat'' old news probably .. I like the gray usg a/p sloooww drying ,,, but smooth ,,and hides well . the white dries faster but doesn't hide as well . Today I applied 220 ft of 450 no-coat 80 boards [54s mostly] 11' It was fun,,, I LOVE NO-COAT!


Thats it, your the official sick [email protected] of this site :jester:

Yes the stuff looks good, but it's time consuming cutting and installing all of it. and you half to make sure it's running straight and so forth . But worst of all, it's all got to be done by HAND !!!!!!!!! :furious:


----------



## moore

Apply no-coat ,, block in no-coat ,, skim out no-coat ,,then sand ,,that's 4 passes ..... what the freak ... Don't tell me I'm doing It wrong , because I'm always right.. Just call It ULTRAFLEX.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> Apply no-coat ,, block in no-coat ,, skim out no-coat ,,then sand ,,that's 4 passes ..... what the freak ... Don't tell me I'm doing It wrong , because I'm always right.. Just call It ULTRAFLEX.


Don't you check with a light :whistling2:


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Don't you check with a light :whistling2:


OK,,,5 passes.


----------



## chris

have a bit of a rush job I have to get ready to paint Monday.Have roughly 300' of No coat to put on. We have applied in past by hand,the 325 NC in box.Does everyone do it by hand or use slot boxes? Slots work well for sticks but have never tried with roll.Was thinking about using a heavy nap mini roller(for paint) and rolling a heavy bead on. Havnt tried yet just wanting input beforehand.We also got aNC roller for rolling flat ,we will try for first time tomorow.


----------



## mudslingr

chris said:


> have a bit of a rush job I have to get ready to paint Monday.Have roughly 300' of No coat to put on. We have applied in past by hand,the 325 NC in box.Does everyone do it by hand or use slot boxes? Slots work well for sticks but have never tried with roll.Was thinking about using a heavy nap mini roller(for paint) and rolling a heavy bead on. Havnt tried yet just wanting input beforehand.We also got aNC roller for rolling flat ,we will try for first time tomorow.


I use a lot of the 450 and like to coat by hand with a stiff 6" knife. Get the mud on fairly soft so you have time to work the product into place and wipe it easily. Spread it at least 3-4" wide and about 1/4" thick. Goes quickly too. Just put 88' on a ceiling yesterday in under an hour.


----------



## fr8train

2buckcanuck said:


> Yes the stuff looks good, but it's time consuming cutting and installing all of it. and you half to make sure it's running straight and so forth . But worst of all, it's all got to be done by HAND !!!!!!!!! :furious:


I boxed these....:thumbup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

fr8train said:


> I boxed these....:thumbup:


We only use it on the 45's , (no-coat/mid-flex) , in the pre-cut form is still kind of pricey up here. We get supplied paper bead.

I'm not keen at running boxes on the bead, but if your going to do it, no-coat is the bead to do it with. Personally, I'm not keen on running boxes on bead, but I addressed my reasons why in older post so.......


----------



## Bevelation

2buckcanuck said:


> I'm not keen at running boxes on the bead, but if your going to do it, no-coat is the bead to do it with. Personally, I'm not keen on running boxes on bead, but I addressed my reasons why in older post so.......


 Redundancy department of redundancy.


----------



## chris

gazman said:


> You have to adjust the roller by hand. Before you start you loosed the two nobs, put the roller in the intenal adjust it to the corect angle and tighten the nobs. All of ten seconds worth. Do that once and away you go.


 Are these roller thingys still around?


----------



## Philma Crevices

http://www.ezybead.com/Tools.html


----------



## gazman

The Ezy rollers are still available. The are about $180 AU. I have sent them a couple of emails inviting them to DWT, but it looks like they dont want to play.


----------

