# Is China ever okay?



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

I need some opinions please...

On the other thread about the new tools I didn't mention that we have a new item for the weekend warrior that retailers are telling us has to sell for $20.00 or less.

*Here's the deal...*

Cost of the product is already at about $13.00 and the retailers are going to want at least 30% on top of that so we have a very small margin of profit, making the tool almost not worth selling. 

The big problem is the mounting board for the store display. The graphic has a model on the cover holding the tool in full color. The price for this board in the U.S. or Canada is a little over $5.00 each with a set up charge of $600.00. The tool mounts directly to this board.

As a comparison, my graphics guy did some checking overseas and found a company that will provide the board, attach the graphics and ship them here for about .62 each and no set up charge.

We would never have assembly done anywhere other than in our facility and all raw materials will always be provided locally.

However, this is a different situation. We're talking about a piece of cardboard while the tool itself is still assembled here. It appears it's the only way to make any money on the thing.

I want to go ahead and order the boards, but not if it has a negative impression with our partners.

Your opinion?

Thanks,

Rick


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Do what you think is needed, but keep this in mind.....


The "amigo's" that are doing all our work that are from "overseas" do drywall for a lot less than you and I do. Does that mean the home owner should automatically go with them because they're less? Because of this now as you can see on the forum, there are a few of us with minimal work going on. If you're product is good it will stay around for the long run. You shouldn't expect an instant profit, but you shouldn't spend more money advertising than you have either.

It's called outsourcing and a lot of people have made a lot of money doing this, I personally think it's unethical to send all of our "American money" over seas. That's my .02


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Just a suggestion... Put this segment of work up for bids to North American suppliers and show them the overseas price. Then decide.

A $600 set-up charge? Thinking that it's all pretty much desk-topped in, what, maybe an hour? Maybe time graphic artists start to feel the "competitive" pinch we've been suffering.

Heck, maybe even put up for bids on Craig's List.


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you Darren and ****** 97,

Today I sent the quote package out to a much larger group of American vendors, described the specifics of the cost requirements and have been promised quotes in the next couple of days.

Didn't think of Craig's list, will give that a shot later this week.

Thank you.

Rick


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I may sound a little stuck in the ol' ways, but I believe very firmly if we're going to try and make this a better place we have to keep the money here. I've also been thinking, you wouldn't even need all the gimick of advertising if you just had a good base of word to mouth (us) I know every one of us knows a few other tapers and bullsit with eachother at the lumber yards. I know personally when I hear of a good tool I pass it on. I believe I've gotten 6 local guys to get that black widow sander alone.

If you have a good product and appeal to the correct group, it's a grandslam every time.

I hope I've been of help to you, sorry if I offended you in any way


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Heck no, 

To be a drywaller, you need to have thick skin. I appreciate your input and suggestions. Absolutely no offense taken _*Sir.*_

Since we're just starting out, we are putting a high emphasis on DrywallTalk and Nathan has been very supportive. Our intention is to let everyone here know what we are up to and hopefully, we can use the lessons learned in a broader market.

Ideally, for a variety of reasons, we would prefer to spend as little as possible on advertising. 

Word of mouth is ALWAYS the best.

Thank you so much for your input. It's exactly what I was looking for.

Rick


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Or even do the graphics guys like the builders do us. Tell 'em, "You do this segment for me at this dirt cheap price and I_ promise_ I'll have a ton more work for you later this year / month" :lol:


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

I remember the first time a builder told me that... 

I was 21 working with my dad and the GC pulled that garbage on me as my dad was watching (and was very quiet). To make the story short, I ended up working one night til 3:30 on his personal home mopping the floor after patching a wall for him. 

The killer was, I did it for free (as he had promised much more work). 

Needless to say, we never saw another job.

I remember my dad laughing about it later and saying, "I knew that was going to happen...I thought it would be a good lesson for you."

I still get mad about that.


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Or even do the graphics guys like the builders do us. Tell 'em, "You do this segment for me at this dirt cheap price and I_ promise_ I'll have a ton more work for you later this year / month" :lol:


I've been laughing about that for about 5 mins straight. That is so perfect!


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Check out the avatar for another giggle.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

If your told it has to be a $20, item you don't have much choice. I like to go American whenever possible, but if it's only the display I wouldn't be too worried. The most important issue is the form and function of the tool, (which I would not have made in china). But ask yourself if this will be your flagship product. If your real money maker will be a different tool maybe it's ok to spend a little more on this one and really focus on one of the others... And it might make you look better in the long run to keep things RED WHITE and BLUE.


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Thank you for the message,

Yea, this "weekend warrior" version is a low profit tool but with volume represents a steady revenue stream which will help to fund the other tools (and help to lower their introduction costs). It is made domestically and for the printing we're just talking about a 10 inch X 11 inch piece of cardboard with a picture on it. 
I received my first new quote (for printing) this morning:

"Rick, 

I had a chance to review your drawings. We specialize in product such as your drawing and skin board. 

I can offer the following: 

Custom Backer board
E Flute Corrugate 
4 Color Digital print one side
$47.98 ea Qty 50 
$24.39 ea Qty 100
$9.98 ea Qty 250 
$5.77 ea Qty 500 

F.O.B. Chicago"

_*....I posted earlier that printing from China is being quoted at $0.62 each with no set up charge in quantities of 1000.*_



Our alternative "contractor version" will sell for more as it is made of leather and formed aluminum. The "experts" tell me that selling a contractor specific tool through material and tool houses does not require any packaging, "Just put them all in a (single) box and that will be good enough..." I don't agree. I think that shows a lack of respect for the buyer so we'll be putting some sort of packaging together for it but the final design is still being played with.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

FOB Chicago -- there's your problem. Everything's steep in Obama-land. :lol:

Geez, I'm getting ready to order 12 x 18 yard signs, 2 color for 25 for $212. $50 set-up


----------



## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

I went to 2 printing schools, often times they will do jobs like this for training their students, you may want to look into it. I did the graphic design and printing for many buisness cards and flyers, different product for sure but worth lookin into. They would usually just charge for the materials used.


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Cool!
I'm there...I'll start calling.

Great idea, thank you.

Rick


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

We've been receiving more pricing and they are typical of one of the Print School's quote below.

qty/ price each:
50 $22.14
100 $16.62
250 $7.98
500 $5.56

Set up: $85.00
FOB NYC

Still waiting to hear back from 6 other companies...

R
/Trying Craigs List too.


----------



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

The other quotes came in, all at about the same level.

Very discouraging.


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

do what they do to us, tell them this is what you'll pay, and go from there!  it seems to work for the contractors! I won't take it anymore, but I'm sure others will!


----------

