# Level 5, spraying mud???



## cazna

Hey i have read some of you say you spray mud for level 5 or roll it on, whats that about, are you using all purpose??

Im asking becouse all i know of here is dulux ultra 5 or resene 3 in 1 that is sprayed on, i am doing a house with the worst light ever for showing things up so i level 4 then sprayed it with dulux ultra 5, yeah it smoothed things over but you can still see the joins under it when the sun hits it right.

Here in nz its trowel trowel trowel which i am trying to figure out a better way but it looks like thats what i have to do, spend days skim coating everything which sucks, so please help find a better way, and im guessing i need a super expensive graco mark 5 dont I?? I have heard of thining down all purpose and spraying it through a 627 spraytip, and i seen a post on here i think they rolled two coats on?? Was it the (How can you not love going to work each day post)

Help, any advice would be great, thanks fellow drywallers.


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## cazna

Any body tryed this method??





 
Looks like it would work fine, a roller is cheap, has to be easier than scooping it out of a bucket onto a hawk then shoving it on the wall and then smoothing it off?? and i wouldnt need to spend $8000 on a Mark V for only a few level 5 jobs a year?? Might try it, Muds a lot thinner than straight from the bucket though?? Any thoughts anyone??


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## Kiwiman

I'm not a painters backside but I found that well painted and well sanded (by machine) resene sandable sealer will give level 5 quality finish, but it won't take out deformities, just even out the background texture.


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## cazna

Most of the time this is fine, but this place is on a hill overlooking the sea, floor to ceiling windows, low setting winter sun reflecting off the water, its nasty, the poor celcrete dude has a wall that needs done again too. A full skim is the only option.


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## Kiwiman

Yeah I saw the pics, I can just imagine the setting sun giving that place a-holes... a fly turd will look like a cow pat.


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## carpentaper

i've never had to try it either but my intuition says it would work great as i'm sure yours is telling you. i would think two coats over fresh drywall tightly wiped would probably be perfect. if its over paint though you might just have to trowel on your first coat to give it a thick enough base so the paint is not giving you bubbles. i kinda think you know all this already. as far as the roller goes, you will never know until you try.


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## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> Any body tryed this method??
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ4pxtkcmNU
> 
> Looks like it would work fine, a roller is cheap, has to be easier than scooping it out of a bucket onto a hawk then shoving it on the wall and then smoothing it off?? and i wouldnt need to spend $8000 on a Mark V for only a few level 5 jobs a year?? Might try it, Muds a lot thinner than straight from the bucket though?? Any thoughts anyone??


I'll venture an opinion. 

Level 5 came about because painters keep screwing up the primer coat.

Thinned down mud is all ya need, you can buy the exspensive stuff, or you can just add a gallon of primer to your thinned down mud.

Thin it as you saw in the video, then either wipe it like he did with a knife, or I would suggest using a squeezgy(know that ain't spelled right). Either will work as well.

The whole point of a level 5 is to get ALL of the wall to the same texture so that the light will not pick up the differance between paper and joint compound, which could be handled by the painters IF THEY WOULD BACK ROLL THE WALL WHEN THE PRIME IT !!!!, which of course they won't, even if they are spec'd to do it.

You really need to quick(speed) sand the wall after its done, before you prime it AND BACK-ROLL it with primer!

Sheese, I feel better now,,, thanks :thumbup:


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## cazna

Cheers Capt :thumbsup: I knew you would come through.

I tryed it today with great results, Soooo Happy, I thinned the mud a bit to far so messed around and got it working better, a little thicker than bazooka mud worked well for us, rolled it on, troweled it smooth, done a couple of walls two coats like this and i cant believe how good it is.

Bring it on critical light, you can go #$%^ yourself, mess with me and i will show you whos the man. Its honestly that good.

I have a guy whos works with me so he rolled a bit, i watched, then trowels it down, he watched me, then he rolled some more and so on, we really got through it and had good day, I dont feel all beat up as you do scooping from a bucket and troweling it on then wiping down, thats slow hard and sucks, this way we got heaps done, and its great, not going to need much of a sand and had a cruisy day.

I know!! why dont i use i knife and pan?? becouse after 10years of swinging on a trowel, knife and pans sometimes dont feel right, i use one for taping but thats it.

Rolling The primer the right way is ok, but getting the sprayer out and hitting it is awsome. Unfortunatly im not painting this job, A man cant do everything, Another team is painting it with a paint thats between semi gloss and low sheen, closer to semi gloss that dosent cover and more suited to exterior use, And yes I am very @#$%ed off about that indeed.


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## Mudstar

Skim coating with mud with this method is a waste of time your better off to prime with quality prime, sand prime then paint. you will get the same results with half the effort.

If your having problems with your work showing through once painted I believe that you might have too much mud on the wall and are not achieving a true flat joint. 

The reason they made drywall was to eliminate the coating of an entire wall to smoothing seams only, just saying.....


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## cazna

Sorry man, i completly dis agree, respectfully.

Joins have smooth sanded plaster, wallboard has paper at a different texture, the point were this meets is sanded paper and also different textures, builders walk on the board when its stacked on the ground and drive the sand/stones on there shoes into it, they scratch it, drag it, chip it, dent it, carry things into the house and bang into it, bruise it with lifters, there is even manufactered marks in it.

Most houses this does not matter so much and normal lighting you may get away with it, but this house i am on you see everything, the worst sun on it you can get, i posted some pics under my (Windows Doors) Post. Floor to ceiling windows.

So a full skim to cover everything is my only option, that i feel content with anyway. The primer makes little difference under such conditions.

If a car has a chip in the paint and you re spray will this hide the chip??? no it wont, if you spray it ten times will that hide the chip, Nope!! If you fill up the chip, sand it smooth then spray it, What happens then, Oh look its gone. 

Thats my aim and is working fantastic, My next house i might even miss the last coat and just finish it like this, Wouldnt miss a dam thing then, i am painting that one too so and awsome job they shall have, so help me god.


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## silverstilts

Mudstar said:


> Skim coating with mud with this method is a waste of time your better off to prime with quality prime, sand prime then paint. you will get the same results with half the effort.
> 
> If your having problems with your work showing through once painted I believe that you might have too much mud on the wall and are not achieving a true flat joint.
> 
> The reason they made drywall was to eliminate the coating of an entire wall to smoothing seams only, just saying.....


Well put.... if your seams are not flat skim coating will not do any good period.... skim coating does aid in hiding the texture on drywall paper where direct lighting or sunlight magnifies everything. If skim coating is required only hit the areas where lighting is a factor. Most times the prime sand & paint method is the best way. Good painters will sand before painting and in between coats of paint....if this is not done imperfections keep multiplying between each coat. We have all had painters follow our work and depending on their methods can make our work look good or worse.... I just hate when certain painters are hired out because of their shortcuts create such a mess of the finished product I leave.


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## DSJOHN

We have one builder that insist on level 5 and we give it to him, Ive tried to talk him into skimcoat plaster which we offer[best level 5 available ] but insist on mud. Weve primed and backrolled for 30 years and if you watch the process as it happens you will realize done correctly, its just as good as level 5 ,considering your work to level 4 is A+. Weve also rolled mud as seen in the video for 30 years,but only over painted surfaces for first coat ,then skimming twice by hand to achieve excellent results. We will also roll watered down dura and apply NU-WALL netting on plaster walls to repair, I see Fiba-fuse now has a similar product.


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## cazna

Unfortunatly for me the painters are using one of the cheapest sealer/undercoats around and they roll it out thin, the top coat is almost semi gloss and does not cover very well and shows roller and brush marks badly, last thing i need is anything i do to show up as well. Hence im hitting it with all i got this time around.

The customers have a lot of friends who will come visit and in my small town word of mouth is everything, its make or break.


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## DSJOHN

Cazna, you are doing the right thing ,even if you lose a bit on your rate.


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## cazna

Thanks for the support DSJOHN :thumbsup:

Its a rare and special breed that think like us:yes:

Did some more today, Man its sweet as, Sooo mint its minter than a garden full of mint.

Pole sanded a bit cause thats all it needs and the direct sun hit it and AWSOME i must say. Im a happy man, bring it on painters and bad lighting, Bring it on.


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## carpentaper

now i can't wait to try it. but i'm not sure when i will be doing a job that will even require it next.


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## cazna

Just try it man, its a great trick, wish i had it up my sleeve years ago now. Gonna sand it up and the the builders will trim it out and in come the painters, Gonna be a great week :thumbup:


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## carpentaper

uh oh!! i hope it gets primed before the trim guys come in. i know i've dinged up my share of walls. especially with those long stretches of floppy baseboard.


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## McDusty

Synko T.I.P.S primer is pretty much a level 5. It has so much mud in it, when the t.i.p.s get's sanded, there is a lot more dust on the ground than usual.


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## Mudstar

cazna said:


> Unfortunatly for me the painters are using one of the cheapest sealer/undercoats around .



And making it your problem will put you out of business and the cheap a$$ painter will still be working. Time to teach the customer what a painter should do to cover the wall properly with the proper product. 

JS


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## cazna

Mudstar said:


> And making it your problem will put you out of business and the cheap a$$ painter will still be working. Time to teach the customer what a painter should do to cover the wall properly with the proper product.
> 
> JS


Oh i hear you on this one brother i really do 

The owner has specified the top coat for washabilaty so instead of educating her they say yes boss, its already cost them, they have givin the garage and wardrobes two top coats and its see through so have to give it another at there cost (I did warn them but it bounced off and one of them has been painting for 30 years and there is nothing wrong with it you know???) hes not the boss who has the pay the extra now is he.

Its a bit of tread lightly, i have pointed some things out before on other jobs and somehow i wound up being the the know all little wa#$ker bad guy out of it all, the others trades dont want to deal with you and the owner thinks your a sh!t stirrer.

So it depends on peoples standards and way of thinking, these painters have all the excuses, furniture will cover it, pull the curtians, you only see it certian times of the day, your to fussy, you didnt build the house, you cant do anymore than that so thats it,

Well i prefer to not use the word "cant" and like to use (How can I) thats the fun of it all.


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## cazna

McDusty said:


> Synko T.I.P.S primer is pretty much a level 5. It has so much mud in it, when the t.i.p.s get's sanded, there is a lot more dust on the ground than usual.


You love that synko stuff dont you, dont think we have it here??
Dulux has a plasterboard surfacer that can be rolled on but its not very nice to use, rolls on all spikey and is hard to sand back, So far the U tube dude has worked out the best level 5 for me.


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## Bazooka-Joe

*loot*



cazna said:


> Any body tryed this method??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes this is what I was going to say and yes it beats forking out a pile of loot...


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## 2buckcanuck

Bazooka-Joe said:


> cazna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any body tryed this method??
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ4pxtkcmNU
> 
> yes this is what I was going to say and yes it beats forking out a pile of loot...
> 
> 
> 
> are you joking with this video
> one,this guy should learn how to do a proper level 4 job 1st
> plus if you know you are going to do a level 5 with mud,why not do a level 3 job,then skim the walls.To do a perfect level 4 job then skim it is over kill
> I could out hawk and trowel this guy at his speed,but in his defense,one guy should roll and one should wipe.
> never tried this,but if your going to pull out the paint roller and play joe blow painter,why not have one guy use a 20 mil(3/4) roller to apply the mud,and then some type of fine roller to smooth it out,then sand.
> where's workaholic when you need him:whistling2:
Click to expand...


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Bazooka-Joe said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you joking with this video
> one,this guy should learn how to do a proper level 4 job 1st
> plus if you know you are going to do a level 5 with mud,why not do a level 3 job,then skim the walls.To do a perfect level 4 job then skim it is over kill
> I could out hawk and trowel this guy at his speed,but in his defense,one guy should roll and one should wipe.
> never tried this,but if your going to pull out the paint roller and play joe blow painter,why not have one guy use a 20 mil(3/4) roller to apply the mud,and then some type of fine roller to smooth it out,then sand.
> where's workaholic when you need him:whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of skimming like this is to eliminate the flashing with smooth plaster, then sanded wallboard and the unsanded wallboard which can be seen under harsh light, If you only do a level 3 then skim like this then the joints may not have enough fill and may still show through after its painted, Be great if it didnt but i dont know if i would chance it, Its only one more swipe over with the box, i dont see it as overkill, more like better insurance, if you going level 5 then it has to be the very best, thats the whole point.
> We do it with one rolling and one wiping down, works very well and i dont think rolling it again with a smoother roller would work, it would still be uneven, It trowels down so flat smooth and ridge free its amazing, only a light sand with the 360 at 220g and your done.
> 
> You would have painted your fair share of big walls under harsh light done by many tapers workaholic using different primers etc, have you ever used any of the roll or spray on level 5 products, Whats your views??
> 
> Please dont reply with a sarcastic answer, this is just my experance and im always keen to hear a better way if someone has actually tryed it out.
Click to expand...


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## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> 2buckcanuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of skimming like this is to eliminate the flashing with smooth plaster, then sanded wallboard and the unsanded wallboard which can be seen under harsh light, If you only do a level 3 then skim like this then the joints may not have enough fill and may still show through after its painted, Be great if it didnt but i dont know if i would chance it, Its only one more swipe over with the box, i dont see it as overkill, more like better insurance, if you going level 5 then it has to be the very best, thats the whole point.
> We do it with one rolling and one wiping down, works very well and i dont think rolling it again with a smoother roller would work, it would still be uneven, It trowels down so flat smooth and ridge free its amazing, only a light sand with the 360 at 220g and your done.
> 
> You would have painted your fair share of big walls under harsh light done by many tapers workaholic using different primers etc, have you ever used any of the roll or spray on level 5 products, Whats your views??
> 
> Please dont reply with a sarcastic answer, this is just my experance and im always keen to hear a better way if someone has actually tryed it out.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give a sarcastic answer,,,, No matter how good a taper you think you are,,,, paper and joints will flash differantley. The only way to acheive a wall that will NOT flash, is level5, It has NOTHING to do with how good you are at finishing, it has EVERYTHING to do with LIGHT !!!!!!
> 
> They call it "light refraction",,,, don't tell anyone that I know that word,, okay??? Don't want to ruin my image, ya know.
Click to expand...


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna,no joking here,if your going to skim everything with mud,why do a complete level 4,if you want to run your 12" on your flats to feel safe ,fine,but if you seen my 10" work....:whistling2:
think,why do 3 coats on your screws if your going to skim the whole wall,why do 3 coats on the bead if your going to skim the whole wall,why skim your butts if your going to skim the whole wall....get the idea,I said level 3 to save on typing
where's workaholic


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> cazna,no joking here,if your going to skim everything with mud,why do a complete level 4,if you want to run your 12" on your flats to feel safe ,fine,but if you seen my 10" work....:whistling2:
> think,why do 3 coats on your screws if your going to skim the whole wall,why do 3 coats on the bead if your going to skim the whole wall,why skim your butts if your going to skim the whole wall....get the idea,I said level 3 to save on typing
> where's workaholic


 I doubt Work can help ya with this one 2buck. 

Your looking at level5 like its a final coat of drywall mud. Its not. Its bringing the paper and the joints into the same surface. Level5 is not now, nor has it ever been a means of "skipping" the skim coat.

I could be wrong,,,, but I'm not


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I doubt Work can help ya with this one 2buck.
> 
> Your looking at level5 like its a final coat of drywall mud. Its not. Its bringing the paper and the joints into the same surface. Level5 is not now, nor has it ever been a means of "skipping" the skim coat.
> 
> I could be wrong,,,, but I'm not


all I know is, when they ask the taper to bring the walls to a level 5(one continuous surface texture) and not the painter,then I will retire :yes:
Ill become a painter:whistling2:
guess I better save money for the operation


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> all I know is, when they ask the taper to bring the walls to a level 5(one continuous surface texture) and not the painter,then I will retire :yes:
> Ill become a painter:whistling2:
> guess I better save money for the operation


 Now who's the old goat around here???

Are you saying that you have reached the place in your life that you no longer are interested in changing your methods to meet the demands of the current market???

In other words,,, "I've always done it this way,, and I'll retire before I change anything???"


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Now who's the old goat around here???
> 
> Are you saying that you have reached the place in your life that you no longer are interested in changing your methods to meet the demands of the current market???
> 
> In other words,,, "I've always done it this way,, and I'll retire before I change anything???"


:yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## cazna

I have found hand troweling and rolling mud and then troweling down two quite different things, 

Hand trowelling is putting mud on at a thickness you want to fill in what you want or need to,

Rolling thinned mud then wiping down is for smoothing things over, It will fill only a little, Not as much as hand trowelling so the risk of skipping a coat previous to this??? Go ahead and try it, Let me know how it goes.
Rolling the mud gives you little time to wipe down, it starts to dry out so you have to be quick, Not enough time to mess around and fill such as hand troweling does.

Well i will put myself out on a limb here, When i hand trowel, no matter how hard i try the mud is still slightly unlevel, Yeah its smooth, but if you could measure its thickness overall its unlevel, and i tend to leave ridges that is more work sanding and hell on the arms and shoulders all day long, So when i get my helper to roll the thinned mud (Which is thinned to far for me to handle it with hawk and trowel) on the wall, then it starts to dry up and i trowel it down, Guess what, Its dead level flat as can be and very even thickness with No ridges, Yep None what so ever, some people have even thought we were mad sanding it as its that smooth, And we can both take it easy and get a lot done for a day, Troweling is a skill that needs learnt over time, my helper was too old and not interested in learning how to trowel, but keen as to swing on a roller all day, Thats another reason we do it, Anybody can push the roller for you, Or if its just one to two walls do it your self.

True, You try it. :thumbsup: Thats my findings anyway.


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## cazna

But wait theres more, Those so called level 5 spray products, only smooth the wall, They dont fill much, Rolling and troweling down does more than these products but not as much as full hand troweling, so its like an in between these two methods, Rolling and troweling is cheaper than spray level 5, $35 for bucket of mud and $170 per bucket of level 5, and you dont need to mask up, so other trades can work in the area if need be.

If you hit the wall with a heavy coat of standard primer/sealer with an airless then this is very close to those level 5 spray products, So you can level 4 then do this which comes up very well, or for those really nasty critical light areas roll and trowel then standard sealer/primer, and its cheaper than those expensive level 5 spray products, and you dont need such a big expensive sprayer, My graco 490 ultramax lowboy does all i need and didnt cost me a fortune.

Im Lucky ( More like Unlucky) enough to live on the west coast so the sun sets over the sea in the evenings when the owers are home or have guests around and houses built on hills so the sun sets lower than the house and even shines light accross the lids, Its really quite amazing how much light come accross the wall/lids at the perfect angle to highlight every tiny dam thing, So far this is working out well, but please, if anyone has anything else to correct me on then feel free to chime in.


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## nz drywaller

what size roller do you use


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## betterdrywall

Interesting to say the least,,,, I'll start off with the video,, It is almost a L4 finish,, about what we do before texture,, Not a real L4,, Good job fwiw,,, 

Next would be the skim coat,, The application used in the video is what I consider,,, stripping,,, which will still cause Flashing,,, the two words go well with each other ,, am I correct???

So for best results,, Roll the mud on as in the video,,, let it set up,,, then wipe it down gently in the horizontal direction on the walls,, same with ceilings go with the joints.. 
Use a plastic wipe down knife,, and remove very small amount of material,,, once dry, sand,, and roll again,, this time stripping off the material.. Now you have your fill... and smooth finish,,

I like 2bucks suggestion of using a smooth roller behind a 3/4 nap.. that would turn out great. main point ,, I don't care how you apply it but there has to be a certain amount of material left on the wall to bring it up to L5 and to prevent "Light Refraction"...... Ha!


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## capspackle

First let me say hello to all as this is my first post.
Capt. Sheetrock nailed it with these statements.
Level 5 came about because painters keep screwing up the primer coat.
The whole point of a level 5 is to get ALL of the wall to the same texture so that the light will not pick up the differance between paper and joint compound

Has anyone tried this product by USG called First Coat here's a link
http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-first-coat-primer.html#tab-features
We used this on a job in Wyeth in Pearl River NY.
All the walls were to be level 5 finish and it was a few thousand board, three floors of offices and labs.
We finished the wall as we always do tape,second coat,third coat and sand.
Then with a 1/8" nap roller we applied two coats of first coat, went rather quick as well.
Painters came primed,and there normal one coat of finish bull**** and the walls 
looked like glass .
Around here, NJ this stuff sells for 40 to 50 dollars for 5 gal. can and get about 2000 sq.ft. coverage with a roller. Give it a try.


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## The_Texture_Guy

Disney does alot of level 5 slick, then they do a white wash orange peel, then they paint.

Then they tattoo them, and then they kill. but i say we let him go.


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## cazna

nz drywaller said:


> what size roller do you use


A [email protected]#kin big one :jester::thumbup:


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## carpentaper

"but keen as to swing on a roller all day"i caught your kiwi slang cazna. hey everybody this is what cazna sounds like.


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## Kiwiman

carpentaper said:


> "but keen as to swing on a roller all day"i caught your kiwi slang cazna. hey everybody this is what cazna sounds like.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA


Arrrrr-Hahahahaha. thats the Maori english accent, with a hint of aussie thrown in, but not far away, the younger generation tend to speak like they're dumber than dirt....Eh BRO! SWEET AS BRO! Ohhh WICKED MAN!
You say "six" we say "sux" aussies say "sex".


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> I have found hand troweling and rolling mud and then troweling down two quite different things,
> 
> Hand trowelling is putting mud on at a thickness you want to fill in what you want or need to,
> 
> Rolling thinned mud then wiping down is for smoothing things over, It will fill only a little, Not as much as hand trowelling so the risk of skipping a coat previous to this??? Go ahead and try it, Let me know how it goes.
> Rolling the mud gives you little time to wipe down, it starts to dry out so you have to be quick, Not enough time to mess around and fill such as hand troweling does.
> 
> Well i will put myself out on a limb here, When i hand trowel, no matter how hard i try the mud is still slightly unlevel, Yeah its smooth, but if you could measure its thickness overall its unlevel, and i tend to leave ridges that is more work sanding and hell on the arms and shoulders all day long, So when i get my helper to roll the thinned mud (Which is thinned to far for me to handle it with hawk and trowel) on the wall, then it starts to dry up and i trowel it down, Guess what, Its dead level flat as can be and very even thickness with No ridges, Yep None what so ever, some people have even thought we were mad sanding it as its that smooth, And we can both take it easy and get a lot done for a day, Troweling is a skill that needs learnt over time, my helper was too old and not interested in learning how to trowel, but keen as to swing on a roller all day, Thats another reason we do it, Anybody can push the roller for you, Or if its just one to two walls do it your self.
> 
> True, You try it. :thumbsup: Thats my findings anyway.


your just KEEN on doing level 5 ,because you like to paint ,cazna :yes:,plus you said you guys glue your drywall on.I find the biggest reason people want a level 5 is they notice the flashing of the screws.
to help you with the trowel,if you look down the trowel blade from the end or heel of it,and it looks perfectly straight like this { | } it is more pron to leave ridges or lines that protrude up.But if it does this { ) } curves up slightly towards the handle,then it wont leave lines.if you don't know what I'm talking about,then dsjohn will half to explain it to you,it's more of a plaster thing.those plaster guys are very picky about their trowels .while tapers tend to buy the 1st trowel they see off the store shelf .
sounds KEEN eh'


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## betterdrywall

You can roll the mud on as thick as you want,, and take off as much as you want,,, who said there was rules to be applied ??,, and how many coats it takes to get the desired results ??? If I am applying mud with a roller to get a L5 finish,, The first rolled on coat ,,I personally don't want to see any joints or screws..


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## cazna

carpentaper said:


> "but keen as to swing on a roller all day"i caught your kiwi slang cazna. hey everybody this is what cazna sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA


 
Oh no dont :thumbup: Not even close to sounding as dumb as that, And i actually spell my words when texting as well, Im the generation before text spelling and grammer turned bad, Actually that little cartoon was made by aussies taking the piss out of kiwis, And they did qiute well out it, Got there own t shirts cups etc and tryed to market it.

I guess some kiwi slang slips in there that seems i speak that way, But no i dont.

And Hey, We dont root or pull sheep either despite what 2buck likes to imagine. :thumbsup: Sorry to burst your cheap sex holiday to NZ dream bubble.


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> your just KEEN on doing level 5 ,because you like to paint ,cazna :yes:,plus you said you guys glue your drywall on.I find the biggest reason people want a level 5 is they notice the flashing of the screws.
> to help you with the trowel,if you look down the trowel blade from the end or heel of it,and it looks perfectly straight like this { | } it is more pron to leave ridges or lines that protrude up.But if it does this { ) } curves up slightly towards the handle,then it wont leave lines.if you don't know what I'm talking about,then dsjohn will half to explain it to you,it's more of a plaster thing.those plaster guys are very picky about their trowels .while tapers tend to buy the 1st trowel they see off the store shelf .
> sounds KEEN eh'


That does sound keen, Never noticed that about the trowels, I have read many times you mention curved trowels but i have never seen one bent like that, Only flat, We dont have many trowel shops in nz, Marshalltown durasofts seem to be the most dominant.


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> if you know you are going to do a level 5 with mud,why not do a level 3 job,then skim the walls.To do a perfect level 4 job then skim it is over kill


USG's level 5 YouTube video shows them 7" box coating some uprights just the one time before level 5 spraying. They skim that out with a knife. It does mention doing the spraying and skimming a 2nd time if necessary.


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## carpentaper

cazna said:


> Oh no dont :thumbup: Not even close to sounding as dumb as that, And i actually spell my words when texting as well, Im the generation before text spelling and grammer turned bad, Actually that little cartoon was made by aussies taking the piss out of kiwis, And they did qiute well out it, Got there own t shirts cups etc and tryed to market it.
> 
> I guess some kiwi slang slips in there that seems i speak that way, But no i dont.
> 
> And Hey, We dont root or pull sheep either despite what 2buck likes to imagine. :thumbsup: Sorry to burst your cheap sex holiday to NZ dream bubble.


just had to bug you. i am aware that that is more of a maori slang rip. my sister is visiting from new zealand. she has been there for four years. her and her husband have been using all kinds of words and phrases from over there. my four year old nephew has a kiwi accent. he does his poos and wees and throws wobblies and stuff. i might move my family out there in two years when my mortgage comes to term. my sister has nothing but good things to say about your country. i kind of feel like you guys are a lot more socially progressive than out here.


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## cazna

carpentaper said:


> just had to bug you. i am aware that that is more of a maori slang rip. my sister is visiting from new zealand. she has been there for four years. her and her husband have been using all kinds of words and phrases from over there. my four year old nephew has a kiwi accent. he does his poos and wees and throws wobblies and stuff. i might move my family out there in two years when my mortgage comes to term. my sister has nothing but good things to say about your country. i kind of feel like you guys are a lot more socially progressive than out here.


Socially Progressive??? Might have to look the meaning of that one up??
Do you mean we say giddy to our neighbours and smile at strangers instead of ignoring everyone and lookin like everyone is out to get you?

What part of NZ is your sister in? If your aware of maori slang then im guessing north Island, Its not so prominant in the south.


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## 2buckcanuck

carpentaper
ask your sister if all the sheep stories in NZ are true too:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> Socially Progressive??? Might have to look the meaning of that one up??
> .


"Socially Progress" is code for socialism and/or communism Cazna

Just look at France and/or Greece (on the news) for a pictorial:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> carpentaper
> ask your sister if all the sheep stories in NZ are true too:whistling2:


 That would be "comrade sheep",,, pay attention man !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> That would be "comrade sheep",,, pay attention man !!!!!!!!!!!!


were just waiting for little Bo peep ,to find her sheep


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## DSJOHN

I can watch her allnight---whats wrong with your LEAFS?


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## 2buckcanuck

DSJOHN said:


> I can watch her allnight---whats wrong with your LEAFS?


they suck......and I'm watching them lose to your team right now :furious:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> That does sound keen, Never noticed that about the trowels, I have read many times you mention curved trowels but i have never seen one bent like that, Only flat, We dont have many trowel shops in nz, Marshalltown durasofts seem to be the most dominant.


 You are kidding???? Marshalltown sells the straight trowels, as well as the curved (hooked) trowels. As do the rest of the trowel manufactorers


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## betterdrywall

This is the only time I will Say BAAAAAAA BAAAAA


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## carpentaper

my sister is in wellington. i think i've railroaded this thread enough i'm not getting into the political stuff here. soooo how bout that level 5 stuff.


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> carpentaper
> ask your sister if all the sheep stories in NZ are true too:whistling2:


Only about the pretty ones 2Buck, I would also like to say we Kiwi's are true gentlemen...No matter how wooly they are.


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> That does sound keen, Never noticed that about the trowels, I have read many times you mention curved trowels but i have never seen one bent like that, Only flat, We dont have many trowel shops in nz, Marshalltown durasofts seem to be the most dominant.


ok,ill try to explain in a different way,think you miss understood me,cazna
it doesn't even half to be a trowel I'm talking about,when you buy a puddy knife,do you not check out the blade,to see if it warps,twist,curves or runs straight ? it's the same with a trowel.When you go to buy a new straight trowel,you got to check what the blade is doing.for taping you just need the blade to be as straight as possible.but when you get into plaster or say level 5 stuff,you can bend the trowel a slight bit so it performs different.the one plaster guy I worked with would do this to his trowels,so it would not leave lines and so forth ,but maybe I'm talking about TOO much of a trade secret and I should keep my mouth shut :yes:


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## carpentaper

i have not looked down the blade of my trowel for ages. i have a curry 14.5"x 4.5". i just noticed that it has a slight curve in it the same as a hooked trowel only much less. its never given me any problems though when i'm skimming and i've been doing a lot of it lately. i do leave little lines sometimes though. the corners all have a little taken off that i think they do at the factory. i'm sure the reason is to make skimming easier. i've been thinking about getting a 5.5" wide trowel for skimming lately. i'm often trying to load more onto the ceiling than my little 4.5 can handle and i get mud knuckled. personally i have never had to level5 new drywall. i am always floating out those nasty butt joints or brutal old walls so i often just skim whole walls. i usually have to do a thick rough coat, sand and then a tight skim. if i had to do a large area of new drywall i would probably try the roller method. but then i would have to find a big roller.


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## cazna

I have a marshalltown 18 x 4 inch trowel i have been using behind the roller, goes well, leaves nearly no ridges till i hit a lump or twist in the drywall (Glue behind the board can do this) But I sort it as needed as i go.

Thanks for that 2Buck, Might even try it one day :thumbsup:

And Im not sure what you are refering to when you say puddy knife? Puddy is not a used word here, Or maybe if a drunk tryed to say putty knife it might sound like puddy???


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## eazyrizla

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 4 characters.


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## smisner50s

i use builders solution from s.w.p. its a sprayable level 5 finish acrylic resin surficer..625 tip goes on 25 mill wet dries 15. i backroll it.. poll sand next day 220 .put flowtrol in my finish paint..:thumbup::thumbup: and home owners are lovin me


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## McDusty

not sure if it was mentioned, but Synko T.I.P.S is like a level 5 spray primer. When you sand the primer, there is more dust than normal primer. It's a nice product.


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## vvdrywall

I have used and prefer the "roll on" and trowell off method for level 5 also! I have used a Hamiltons product called "Prep Coat" and rolled that over a level 4 and produced great results also. Sounds like your on the right path!


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna
I tried my little level 5 experiment today,where I was saying to go with a heavy nap roller,then a finer one.I could only get a 19mil (1/2) foam roller where I live,which sorta sucked.then went over it with a 5 mil.The tape job was,10and 12 inched boxed,angles finished,2 coats on the screws,and did not skim the butts or beads.
things I learnt
to start the captain and even you cazna are right on one thing,do a complete level 4 up to at least the sanding point.I did buzz the screws and edges on things.but I don't see the need to do a perfect sand and check with a light at this point.(not saying you guys said to do that) but I was surprised it did not fill the screws....
it is just like applying paint,just really thick paint,it does hide some things (really small pin holes) but not all things.The H.O. thought it looked liked watered down primer.even the texture of it.
next time I would do a level 4,give things a quick buzz with sander ,(like I did) and do a spot check real quick with some mud and a light.
It would be faster with 2 guys rolling (by myself today) one on the nap roller and the other on the fine roller ,5 mil.
I worked from the mud bucket,not a paint tray,it was way faster that way.
to be honest,I could of hawked and troweled it faster,but that would of been too much like work .rolling it was way easier on the body,and just went at a ok pace.I did about 8 foot lengths,then went back over it with the fine roller.
I went through about 2/3 rd's of a bucket and covered around 14- 4x12'
I only got to sand one small area today,I shined a light on it and went oh no,why did I do this,,,but I went with some dull 180,went vertical then horizontal (a cross hatch pattern ) and was kind of like wow ,that looks good,but I think I will go 120 grit with foam with the cross hatch sand.
this is just a different way for everyone to think about doing the level 5,something you can experiment with.I see some guys talking about troweling twice,with this method I don't feel there's no need for that ,but it is more sanding intensive,but easy to put on.
I am a old school taper where I believe a good prime with a back roll is all that is needed.but if H.O. wants to pay for it,and when it comes to some sunshine walls,high gloss paint,semi gloss etc...it may be needed.
here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwjzlSoa_Rs&feature=player_embedded# to me the 2nd part of the video is how level 5 should be done.


----------



## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> cazna
> I tried my little level 5 experiment today,where I was saying to go with a heavy nap roller,then a finer one.I could only get a 19mil (1/2) foam roller where I live,which sorta sucked.then went over it with a 5 mil.The tape job was,10and 12 inched boxed,angles finished,2 coats on the screws,and did not skim the butts or beads.
> things I learnt
> to start the captain and even you cazna are right on one thing,do a complete level 4 up to at least the sanding point.I did buzz the screws and edges on things.but I don't see the need to do a perfect sand and check with a light at this point.(not saying you guys said to do that) but I was surprised it did not fill the screws....
> it is just like applying paint,just really thick paint,it does hide some things (really small pin holes) but not all things.The H.O. thought it looked liked watered down primer.even the texture of it.
> next time I would do a level 4,give things a quick buzz with sander ,(like I did) and do a spot check real quick with some mud and a light.
> It would be faster with 2 guys rolling (by myself today) one on the nap roller and the other on the fine roller ,5 mil.
> I worked from the mud bucket,not a paint tray,it was way faster that way.
> to be honest,I could of hawked and troweled it faster,but that would of been too much like work .rolling it was way easier on the body,and just went at a ok pace.I did about 8 foot lengths,then went back over it with the fine roller.
> I went through about 2/3 rd's of a bucket and covered around 14- 4x12'
> I only got to sand one small area today,I shined a light on it and went oh no,why did I do this,,,but I went with some dull 180,went vertical then horizontal (a cross hatch pattern ) and was kind of like wow ,that looks good,but I think I will go 120 grit with foam with the cross hatch sand.
> this is just a different way for everyone to think about doing the level 5,something you can experiment with.I see some guys talking about troweling twice,with this method I don't feel there's no need for that ,but it is more sanding intensive,but easy to put on.
> I am a old school taper where I believe a good prime with a back roll is all that is needed.but if H.O. wants to pay for it,and when it comes to some sunshine walls,high gloss paint,semi gloss etc...it may be needed.
> here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwjzlSoa_Rs&feature=player_embedded# to me the 2nd part of the video is how level 5 should be done.


Buck that is how I do it the spray method.i use builders solution from sw


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> Buck that is how I do it the spray method.i use builders solution from sw


that means you get to be the one to type the pro's and cons on it:yes:.Looks like the best way to do it to me .must have a nice plaster look to it.does it?


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## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> that means you get to be the one to type the pro's and cons on it:yes:.Looks like the best way to do it to me .must have a nice plaster look to it.does it?


Yes it has a verry uniform finish bright sun light comming through the windows and still no differance in finish my stuff goes on 25 mills wet dries back 15 and I have one of my guys chase me with a back roller 18inch to lay off any spit marks dust of lint or what ever,plus it gives it just the right amount of texture,drawbacks takes a good backroller to keep up it tacks up fast so speed is a must. Small sprayers wont push it out fast enough not a good fan pattern heavy edges.i use a 395 nova by graco and that all it has .with a 625 tip.a 5 gallon of good s.w.p primer 800sq ft .a 5 gallon of sprayable surficer level 5 .350_400 sqft if appliyed at proper mills.


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## cazna

Thanks for that 2buck, sounds like your having some fun with it, 180g cross hatched sanded with the radius 360 went well for us. Interesting to read your mixing it up a bit, and yes, the rolling is much easier than having to hand skim it :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck

I could not make it to the house I was doing today .(snow 6"),So I begged and begged my TEENAGE daughter to lend me her camera to take pics of the basement I was doing near home.The level 5 experiment.
pic #1,what the wall looked like after rolling it,on with a 19 mil,spread with a 5 mil
pic#2,this is it sanded,120 hatch sand,then over it with 180,too much sanding,I knew it would be but......
pic#3,a brain storm came over me,I had one small wall to experiment with.I thought quit thinking like a painter .Think like a P/W production machine taper.think fast method !!!!whats a fast machine we use ????
pic#4,10" box ran real quick just before I walked out the door today.that could be the way,,,use a easy sand topping mud,so it sands easy.What do you guys think??


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## Capt-sheetrock

I'd say that you could try doing every other pass with the box, and then come back around and do the fill-ins,, kinda like your take on running over the flat the secind time. It will reduce the lap marks.

I could say that, but I refuse to answer any of your posts till you remove that rediculous avitar


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I'd say that you could try doing every other pass with the box, and then come back around and do the fill-ins,, kinda like your take on running over the flat the secind time. It will reduce the lap marks.
> 
> I could say that, but I refuse to answer any of your posts till you remove that rediculous avitar


that's exactly what i was thinking,now dsjohn and rebel are going to be all  ,when they see my new avatar .:yes:


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## cazna

Interesting, I rolled it once and troweled it off then thought, Hell no, thats to thin and i will just sand through it in spots so i let it dry ( only needs a couple hrs) and rolled then troweled down again, That came up fantastic, you couldnt see through it at all and so so smooth and perfect, Maybe one coat is enough but on the job i did my balls wernt big enough to risk it, I did think about the boxing thing, box it once then box it again, like butt joins but the walls i did were higher than normal so it would have been a hassel, and my little mind figured the trowel would be more even.

Looks like your trying it all out though which is great to see, Have you tryed trowelling down behind the roller, I would be interested to here what you think about that after you have done it.

I was thinking the other day you said you just dipped the mud from a bucket instead of a tray, Well the painter in me is saying thats not such a good idea, A roller and tray is made to get a nice even roller full to apply to the wall so it can be spread evenly, dunking from a bucket will load up the roller more on one side so when its applyed to the wall you get a lot of product in one spot then you have work to try and spread it about which never really works out to well, Its an uneven mess, coming behind it with another roller wont acheive much either, Big paint trays do cost a bit so i understand why you didnt get one. for us the roller was very important you get it evenly first, then an easy wipe over was all it needed, Once you get this going its suprising how much you could do in a day.


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Interesting, I rolled it once and troweled it off then thought, Hell no, thats to thin and i will just sand through it in spots so i let it dry ( only needs a couple hrs) and rolled then troweled down again, That came up fantastic, you couldnt see through it at all and so so smooth and perfect, Maybe one coat is enough but on the job i did my balls wernt big enough to risk it, I did think about the boxing thing, box it once then box it again, like butt joins but the walls i did were higher than normal so it would have been a hassel, and my little mind figured the trowel would be more even.
> 
> Looks like your trying it all out though which is great to see, Have you tryed trowelling down behind the roller, I would be interested to here what you think about that after you have done it.
> 
> I was thinking the other day you said you just dipped the mud from a bucket instead of a tray, Well the painter in me is saying thats not such a good idea, A roller and tray is made to get a nice even roller full to apply to the wall so it can be spread evenly, dunking from a bucket will load up the roller more on one side so when its applyed to the wall you get a lot of product in one spot then you have work to try and spread it about which never really works out to well, Its an uneven mess, coming behind it with another roller wont acheive much either, Big paint trays do cost a bit so i understand why you didnt get one. for us the roller was very important you get it evenly first, then an easy wipe over was all it needed, Once you get this going its suprising how much you could do in a day.


If it were just a few sheets I would just H&T or P&K
still would half to experiment with the boxes,but if it's two coats then ?????
but I also think 2 coats with the boxes would be faster than 2 coats with a roller and H&T or P&K .
A single roll coat and H&T or P&K could be faster than 2 box runs,not sure yet
If I did the roll and H&T,it would be me ,old fart on the roller,and my labourer,the young buck,on the H&T.
And the dipping of the roller in the bucket,,,,,paint talk,,,roller vs tray


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## silverstilts

2buckcanuck said:


> I could not make it to the house I was doing today .(snow 6"),So I begged and begged my TEENAGE daughter to lend me her camera to take pics of the basement I was doing near home.The level 5 experiment.
> pic #1,what the wall looked like after rolling it,on with a 19 mil,spread with a 5 mil
> pic#2,this is it sanded,120 hatch sand,then over it with 180,too much sanding,I knew it would be but......
> pic#3,a brain storm came over me,I had one small wall to experiment with.I thought quit thinking like a painter .Think like a P/W production machine taper.think fast method !!!!whats a fast machine we use ????
> pic#4,10" box ran real quick just before I walked out the door today.that could be the way,,,use a easy sand topping mud,so it sands easy.What do you guys think??


Your picture #4 been doing that for years a quick way of skim coating and one of my little tricks. Believe it or not it works extremely well on knock down ceilings when doing remodels. I would do as Capt. says leave a little space in between runs to avoid lap or any marks till 2nd coat then run those after the first coat drys. You will be surprised with the results. On a level 5 the mud drys fast so work it with the box as it drys . Good way to go but still not as fast as an airless but then again it will fill over heavy textures, or where wall paper removal was done where an airless does not have that capability.


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## Mudstar

eazyrizla said:


> if there useing semi gloss pant and theres lots of sun lite. you gota skim the hole wall, cus the paper will absorb the pant differently and will cause (flashing).


Not true skimming the whole wall is the worst solution. 

There's a better way Caz...... knows so.

:thumbsup:


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## DSJOHN

2buckcanuck said:


> that's exactly what i was thinking,now dsjohn and rebel are going to be all  ,when they see my new avatar .:yes:


:whistling2:Cant wait---lets see it--someday I,ll do one:yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock

When you guys roll the mud on, don't you ever use a sqeegy??? works way better than H&T or P&K


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## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> When you guys roll the mud on, don't you ever use a sqeegy??? works way better than H&T or P&K


For some reason your post gave me an idea, and I'm trying to figure it whether it's stupid or not....

What about just rolling the mud on thin with a tight nap roller, and not pulling it with a knife or a trowel? If you have to sand it a little anyway, what's a little more sanding to skip the entire wipe-down process? You'd have to be pretty careful to not miss any stipple though...

Like I said, it may be a ridiculous idea.


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> When you guys roll the mud on, don't you ever use a sqeegy??? works way better than H&T or P&K


I was wondering about something else you said,mixing some mud with the primer,how much would you mix with a fiver .You got me thinking about that way now .And I don't know why????? I never half to do level 5 work
But you never know when you might half to,:yes:


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## Bill from Indy

if i got less than 50 sheets, I usually roll and wipe with magic trowel or the like....if more, i spray it...or I spray it if I am by myself and feel like getting the rig out....once you get the hang of spraying the mud, it really is the best finish and quickest.....you got to determine your outcome though..if it is a remodel full of furniture, then obviously you can't spray...a lot of doors and/or windows...I usually roll too

I have just got a system down when doing basements.....stomp knockdown and L5 walls (densarmor)....you spray the ceilings for guy stomping..spray about 8" down from ceiling angle...or split if your using a wide rac...then come back and hit walls as you get ahead of stomp guy

after you get it all sprayed...fire up the dehumidifiers and go home


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> For some reason your post gave me an idea, and I'm trying to figure it whether it's stupid or not....
> 
> What about just rolling the mud on thin with a tight nap roller, and not pulling it with a knife or a trowel? If you have to sand it a little anyway, what's a little more sanding to skip the entire wipe-down process? You'd have to be pretty careful to not miss any stipple though...
> 
> Like I said, it may be a ridiculous idea.


UUhhmmmm,thats what my experiment was about,guess the 5 mil thing would throw you off,I used a 1/8 roller .I would use something even tighter than that,like 1/16 foam maybe ????? the 1/8" roller still left a fairly rough surface to sand .a bit too much sanding for my liking .And I don't mind sanding........I know ,I'm nuts


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## smisner50s

If you add primer to the mud its not gonna sand


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> I was wondering about something else you said,mixing some mud with the primer,how much would you mix with a fiver .You got me thinking about that way now .And I don't know why????? I never half to do level 5 work
> But you never know when you might half to,:yes:


My old boss used to mix a box of light taping with 1/3 bucket of primer. I think his cost savings were offset by new tips though. Aw, who am I kidding....he never replaced his tips and we just sprayed a garden hose on the wall :laughing:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> UUhhmmmm,thats what my experiment was about,guess the 5 mil thing would throw you off,I used a 1/8 roller .I would use something even tighter than that,like 1/16 foam maybe ????? the 1/8" roller still left a fairly rough surface to sand .a bit too much sanding for my liking .And I don't mind sanding........I know ,I'm nuts


Oh, sorry, I thought you were rolling on primer...I thought it sounded pretty crazy! What kind of mud were you using? Light or regular?


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> Oh, sorry, I thought you were rolling on primer...I thought it sounded pretty crazy! What kind of mud were you using? Light or regular?


Mud for putting tape on  I know I'm a dumb a$$
The H.O. had some left over so..........blah,blah,blah,


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> If you add primer to the mud its not gonna sand


No,I mean a bit of mud mixed with my primer (must be my canuck accent:whistling2
would that be too hard to sand .
This is all cazna's fault ,he got me experimenting with level 5 on one of my side jobs :furious:


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## smisner50s

Primer is a sealer.so if you mix the two togather your getting sealed mud.just my opinion


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Mud for putting tape on  I know I'm a dumb a$$
> The H.O. had some left over so..........blah,blah,blah,


No, I don't think you're a dumbass, but I think it DOES sound rough to sand:yes: Kudos for trying something new:thumbup:


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## cazna

smisner50s said:


> Primer is a sealer.so if you mix the two togather your getting sealed mud.just my opinion


I reckon it would be a right cock up, But i havent tryed it so i dont know


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> I was wondering about something else you said,mixing some mud with the primer,how much would you mix with a fiver .You got me thinking about that way now .And I don't know why????? I never half to do level 5 work
> But you never know when you might half to,:yes:


 THis would be a great job to test it on,,, mix a QT (ain;t got a clue how many ml that is) of flat in a 5'er. 

To use a sqeegy, I stick a paint screen in a 5'er(thinned to stomp), roll it on with a 1/2 knapp and wipe with a 22" sqeegy from Blowes. Fast Quick and in a Hurry(I carry a pan to wipe the sqeegy with) . I do that alot, ain't gonna break out the sprayer for a bedroom.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Anothe thing,,, pro form black lid will give you a HARDER finish on level5 than any other.


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## betterdrywall

Say Captain Is that a girl dog you got??? My dog Shorty wants a girlfriend!


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## 2buckcanuck

Not sure if it would be safe to mate with the captains dawg,it bit a painter,so you will never know what disease it may have now .
Thats a cute little Dashhound you got there ,I use to own one ,best dog I ever owned or cared for .He would follow me every where ,he would even climb ladders to get to me with his short little legs .I took him into work all the time .(there's a thread,dogs at work) .
Then one day a CAT got the best of him .it ran the edge of a liquid manure pit , while the dog jumped up over and in it .








It' been 25 years and have never got a dog since then,RIP Master Melvin Bates


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> pic#4,10" box ran real quick just before I walked out the door today.that could be the way,,,use a easy sand topping mud,so it sands easy.What do you guys think??


So did it work out?

Btw: I did your 'wait 10 mins.' 10" boxing on some stand ups the other day, but tried using a 3 and 3 box setting on some of it, vs. a 4 and then 3 setting. Seemed to work fine. Maybe in part because the 1st coat had shrunk back enough that the 2nd coat didn't interfere with it?


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## Bazooka-Joe

*Thats why Your here*



2buckcanuck said:


> Bazooka-Joe said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you joking with this video
> one,this guy should learn how to do a proper level 4 job 1st
> plus if you know you are going to do a level 5 with mud,why not do a level 3 job,then skim the walls.To do a perfect level 4 job then skim it is over kill
> I could out hawk and trowel this guy at his speed,but in his defense,one guy should roll and one should wipe.
> never tried this,but if your going to pull out the paint roller and play joe blow painter,why not have one guy use a 20 mil(3/4) roller to apply the mud,and then some type of fine roller to smooth it out,then sand.
> where's workaholic when you need him:whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why your here to show us how it is done
Click to expand...


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## 2buckcanuck

JustMe said:


> So did it work out?
> 
> Btw: I did your 'wait 10 mins.' 10" boxing on some stand ups the other day, but tried using a 3 and 3 box setting on some of it, vs. a 4 and then 3 setting. Seemed to work fine. Maybe in part because the 1st coat had shrunk back enough that the 2nd coat didn't interfere with it?


Great minds think a like justme:thumbsup:
I started doing that a few months back. It's what you said, it shrinks back just enough buy the time you go over it again. Ive been having to run the boxes more lately.......So you start experimenting more. Even though I have been doing this for 30 years, you always keep trying to find new ways of perfection.

I'm not sure how my level 5 experiment turned out, I never did get to paint it.Nor did I even sand it The builder was here at my house for a visit on Sunday for 3 hours.He didn't bitch about nothing, so I guess it's ok:whistling2:

I get there's times level 5 is required, But to me it's over kill, what idea I came up with is to use the boxes next time. I would do what Silverstilts suggested. A double run with the boxes with a over lap. After 1st coat is dry of coarse.

Sounds like from a lot of your post you do a lot of commercial stuff justme. Maybe on one or two sheets you can experiment with the boxes. Try skimming the sheets tight with them. Then let us know how it turns out.
Hint,Hint,:yes:


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## betterdrywall

Hmm.. I always used the amount of primer it takes to thin the mud down for rolling it on the walls. replacement for water.


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