# Lesson finally learned................this time.



## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Late last winter we did a job for a local contractor. It was just finishing drywall because he wanted to keep his guys busy so they hung it. Yeah, OK I guess. We don't do that for too many people but we'll give it a go. Long story short, after that job was done we told ourselves we will never do that for him again. Sloppy hanging and even sloppier screwing.

8 months go by....................

He calls us again with the same thing. He had torn down an old house and built a new one in its place. He wanted to hang again, and wanted us to just finish. Being just before the holidays, and not having the phone ringing off the wall, we reluctantly visited the job and gave a price (freshly framed and no mechanicals yet). We thought we made it through the last house, so we can probably do it again.

We stopped in last week to see how the hanging was going and they were close to being done. Or at least as done as they could be. He was waiting on water to get run into the house and didn't want to cover several areas until they were water tested. Whatever, we'll try to work with you. Walked in and saw about the same as the last job we did. Sloppy sloppy sloppy! Went upstairs where they were still hanging, board was run the wrong way on the roof trusses, full 1/2" drywall SHIMS were being used under the ceiling pieces here and there because the trusses didn't come out right? What? Looking around screws needed a lot of work and about 3/4ths of the electrical boxes needed to be patched. Walking in that day did my heart and mind no good. I made a comment that it will take at least a full day to "fix" it good enough to start taping. When he called me the other day to say he was ready, he went on to say he had his guys go over all the screws to make sure they were good. Hmmmmmmm, OK. Maybe it will be better?

Today was start day. Walked in and just about threw up upon quick reviewing of the work. It was soooooo much worse than the job earlier in the year. Two of us spend an hour and a half in the first small bedroom fixing screws. Either they were not in, they were too deep, they went in at an angle and left a huge "splash mark" in the board, they didn't hit anything and they were left or if they were removed they left a huge fuzzy spot that needed to be dimpled (which is the only normal thing we would have expected). After and hour and a half we were just getting to the ceiling and hit the road block. There was no way we could get the ceiling good enough to finish. The shimming they did caused a roller coaster on the seams, the board was just hanging on the screws in many cases and there were singles screws in the field holding up a 4' x 5' section of board. It was just plain ugly.

I had to make the call.

I called him up and asked if his guys were willing to finish the drywall because were not so sure we want to. There was a pause on his end. Then I went on to say there is no other way to put it, this is the worst hung drywall we have ever seen. Then he said yeah, they will get it done somehow. That was pretty much it. We walked off the job. Packed up and left.

Not only the screws were bad, but then had to deal with 3/4 of the boxes that needed patching and badly cut pieces of board. Some of the closets they cut pieces obviously over an inch short, but just centered them and screwed them (badly) anyway. Pieces in rooms were like that too.

We would have not got paid for any of this fixing, a close estimate of 2+ days all said and done. And it STILL wouldn't have been quality work. We would have ate this just to get the work and essentially make him look better at our expense. Nope, sorry. Not today, not ever!

We should have never got into this situation again with the same guy. Always trust your gut!

I don't think he'll call us again.

Sorry for the rant.


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

I feel your pain--Have a customer like that too, but I charge him hourly, rather than a normal fixed price bid like everyone else gets.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Saul_Surfaces said:


> I feel your pain--Have a customer like that too, but I charge him hourly, rather than a normal fixed price bid like everyone else gets.


We thought about offering an hourly option for fixing it at least, but decided against it. We just wanted no part of it.

We learned a lesson, hopefully he will too. 

I feel like we dropped the ball on responsibility or something, but you really had to see the work.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

wnybassman said:


> We thought about offering an hourly option for fixing it at least, but decided against it. We just wanted no part of it.
> 
> We learned a lesson, hopefully he will too.
> 
> I feel like we dropped the ball on responsibility or something, but you really had to see the work.


IMO its better to be out looking for work and making no money than to be working for free!! 

We don't do many that are already hung by others and the ones that we do we don't give a price till after its hung.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds like a tough situation. Been there. Should've offered to fix everything T&M, maybe made some extra $, still maintain a relationship with the builder. If he would've reacted negatively to that, then walk away. Walk him through the site and point it out to him. Maybe next time he won't have his guys hang it.


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

when a hanging job is that bad its not worth putting your name on the finished product because you know as much as i do the hangers never get heat for it ! it's always the same ? "who finished the drywall ?" it's never "who hung the board and f...ed the finishers" when the hanging is screwed up there's only so much 1 can do with it. I just ran into the same thing a month ago in a new const. house where there was 1-2" gaps , board hung ver/horz on the same wall , but seams on 3' walls , 5 screws in the field on all sheets , ect.ect.ect. all the dont's of hanging board. walked away !


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

drywall guy158 said:


> when a hanging job is that bad its not worth putting your name on the finished product because you know as much as i do the hangers never get heat for it !


Exactly. We did not want our name on it. Although we will be attached to the job as "the guys who walked off". I guess I can live with that.

There is only so much you can do with poorly hung board.

I think everyone has heard the phrase "we hate finishing, but we don't mind hanging". Beware, there are reasons they hate finishing! These guys are usually the worst hangers.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> Exactly. We did not want our name on it. Although we will be attached to the job as "the guys who walked off". I guess I can live with that.
> 
> There is only so much you can do with poorly hung board.
> 
> I think everyone has heard the phrase "we hate finishing, but we don't mind hanging". Beware, there are reasons they hate finishing! These guys are usually the worst hangers.



I hate hanging ...but LOVE Finishing ...... Does that make me a bad person :jester:


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## akcajun (Dec 16, 2009)

i had that happen somewhat a long time ago... my cousing hung a garage for me using my homemade jack... and when the jack broke he decided to railroad the garage....and told me it was easier for him...He wasn't the one that had to quarantee the work..I had to double tape every railroad to make the builder happy...3 car garage 5/8 rock...I didn't have him hang for me any more.....lol


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

If I quote the job and I know they are not real board hangers. I give them a two tier price. That usually discourages them from crappy non board hanger hang jobs.

I try not to insult their judgement or workmanship. I've picked up crappy jobs and have been well compensated by being more gracious than the other smart azz competitor. 

Anyone can smack board on the wall. But not everyone can finish it well.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

I would have taken pictures of everything wrong with the hang, this way the builder can see how his guys hang, and how your suppose to finish it, Please:whistling2: and if the builder can't compensate you, why care if you get labeled "Guy who walked away!" at least you have your rep as a guy who's not a hack trying to clean up some Hack hangers under preformance workers, who apparently don't care what their work looks like. These type of Builders need to leave the trade.:yes:
Cause he doesn't care what his crew does.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

The job can't be that large or the non board hanging crapenters would have quit.
So how long does it take to: 1). drive in all the screws hanging out. 
2). Patch every outlet / switch.
3). tape and run the 10 extra butts.
4). fill the 1" gaps. 

1 guy an extra day. two days tops. Us drywall finishers are the biggest whiners unless we don't have any work. Then I whine about that.

Tycoon


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

Problems create opportunities. 

There is never a good time to burn a bridge.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

Iam doing a basement right now for a family member. And He is hanging it.. It looks like a puzzle. But NOTHING I cant fix.. Best part is its by the hour.. I think the next time a homeowner doesnt want me to hang and finish. Its by the hr to finish. All BY HAND. No box or angle tool.. They think they are saveing money.. Dont think so..lol


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> The job can't be that large or the non board hanging crapenters would have quit.
> So how long does it take to: 1). drive in all the screws hanging out.
> 2). Patch every outlet / switch.
> 3). tape and run the 10 extra butts.
> ...


That's what we thought too, until we started in on it and realized it would take double of what we thought, maybe more. We were willing to give a day or so of free labor, but not double or triple that. Could we have fixed it? Maybe. If everything is screwed tightly we can fix anything, but when it is badly attached to begin with it is something we just don't want to bother with whether we got paid for it or not.

It was bad.

We were dealing with it until we hit the ceilings. Those were just awful. We stopped in that one day while they were hanging the ceilings and noticed full 1/2" strips of drywall used as shims for some unknown (to us) reason. They basically went from screwing tight to wood to riding up on these shims in just a few feet. They had no idea where they were screwing in relationship to these shims. Several places where I randomly pushed up on seemingly good looking screws revealed that the board went up another 1/4 to 1/2 inch to meet the framing. They just ran the screws to the board and stopped just as they looked "good". Of yeah, no screw guns, all cordless drills with the drywall adapter bit.

We didn't feel real bad burning this bridge. Even if we got to hang this contractors jobs it wouldn't have been too profitable. His framing looks much like his drywall work.

We swung by the job site to see his guys doing the finishing work. Like I said before, I feel the worst for the homeowner.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> The job can't be that large or the non board hanging crapenters would have quit.
> So how long does it take to: 1). drive in all the screws hanging out.
> 2). Patch every outlet / switch.
> 3). tape and run the 10 extra butts.
> ...


 Crappy drywall job means more work for us.That means more money. Homeowner or contractor(or carpenters trying to be a rocker) try to save money to do it themself pay more to finish it. Plain and simple... You can shine a turd but it does cost a lot..lol


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## themexicandrywaller (Jan 2, 2010)

hello everybody ...I just want to say ...please dont name this people HANGERS.
we...the real drywall hangers allways trait to fix the framing before hang the rock
sometimes we use our personal skillsaw to do this...
please give us (real hangers) a break..
saludos a todos
tappers you know we love you..


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> I hate hanging ...but LOVE Finishing ...... Does that make me a bad person :jester:


 Not at all man :thumbsup: Hanging and Finishing are 2 different trades actually.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

themexicandrywaller said:


> hello everybody ...I just want to say ...please dont name this people HANGERS.
> we...the real drywall hangers allways trait to fix the framing before hang the rock
> sometimes we use our personal skillsaw to do this...
> please give us (real hangers) a break..
> ...


In no way am I calling these guys hangers. I have many other words for them, but not hangers


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Al Taper said:


> Crappy drywall job means more work for us.That means more money. Homeowner or contractor(or carpenters trying to be a rocker) try to save money to do it themself pay more to finish it. Plain and simple... You can shine a turd but it does cost a lot..lol


This is not true many times contracts are signed before the hanging even begins sometimes it is easy to assume that it will be a quality job especially if it is commercial or from a repeat contractor. If you cannot honor your contract they will look elsewhere the next time. Try to get an extra Penny from them is not something one can do with ease. If it is a homeowner hanging job they will just call around and get the lowest footage price anyway so if you increase because of a horse ass job think again , they don't realize and will not want to realize the extra work, they only will look at the bottom price, don't care what people skills you have there is no changing peoples minds when it comes down to spending their own money when their minds are made . Most homeowners want you to fudge on your price but try to get them to fudge with your numbers is a whole different ball game. Not saying it can't be done but generally speaking it is an upward battle which most times is lost.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

I bid a wire lath an cement job once. The home owner told me I didn't need to measure it because he already had done it.

He multiplied the Enlgish tudor panels down to the inch. He was put out when I remeasured it and rounded it off the the nearest foot. I didn't get the job.
But he did call me back to fix it. He did'nt like that price either.

Almost out work again but bidding.
Tycoon.


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