# Verdict on drywall adhesive vs. screws



## D's

Hey gang, 
I've been wondering if it's more cost effective in the long run to glue instead of screw the field. ie cost of glue versus labour in finishing screws, and which results in more durable finish(ie. less screw pops, joint problems...).

I've had boarding subies in the past use adhesive and it seems to save finishing time but haven't sat down and done the math.

Thoughts?

What's standard practice in Calgary, Edmonton, and Van?

Thanks,
D'S


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## Muddauber

I don't care what the cost is, I will not hang a job without glue.

But let me add that my work is all smooth finish. If I were using texture, like a knock down, I would probably drop the glue and just screw off.


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## D's

Do you feel it's more expensive in the long run to not use it? How many screws do you put in the field on walls to hold it in place(every 24")

Thanks


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## Whitey97

Only time we use glue is on a bad stud, or when affixing it to a mason wall ie stairway. I don't think we'll ever drop the screws and just glue, regardless if it's smooth or has texture.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

I've pondered this alternative as well many times, using glue...i.e. liquid nails, whatever

but like ****** said, ultimately it never happens......dont think ill ever have my guys drop the nails/screws.........i rarely run into nail pops, and when i do, 70% of the time its bad lumber......and a small 30% of the time, its our own fault....

nonetheless, i havnt analyzed the costs for awhile, but if i remember correctly, i think its more expensive to glue. the last job we did involving liquid nails, i think my guys used nearly one entire tube for just 1-2 sheets.......

also, i feel that if it WERE a better alternative, gluing.....that it would be of course widely accepted, and the question would never be brought up -- as far as i know, no one i know does this as standard procedure.

all in all, to me it just doesnt sit right to have the actual sheets glued directly to the lumber.


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## Whitey97

exactly, keep in mind they're from Canada, they're not quite right up there! lol, j/k guys


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## D's

The reason I'm asking is we're running out of beaver tails to pound the nails in with.


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## drywallnflorida

We have screw requirements here, the field has to be screwed every 16". 
We put 3 screws in the feild so like every 12". 
We don't use glue too often, if we have a bad stud we shim it.
If we were to use glue I wouldn't, not screw it also because the glue is only as strong as the paper on the back of the board.


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## Stormy_Ny

The job I am on now, the hangers are using glue ...... I love it. 3 screws for a whole board to finish. 

Liquid Nails ? I bet that does cost alot .....:whistling2:


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## [email protected]

It takes us 2-3 cases of drywall adhesive per 10k of board. That puts the cost at .01 or a bit more. It's worth it to me. I think the glue, striped not dabbed helps to even out the slight variances in the studs. We then use a pair off screws every other stud and check for rattles adding screws if needed.


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## D's

I got my boarders to start glueing on our last job. They bitched alot! Mostly about remembering to do it, screwing it off immediately, and getting it all over themselves - they'll eventually pick it up. I've transferred the prefilling/repair responsibility from the tapers to them and any hope of a raise is partly based on how many imperfections they leave - so now they have an incentive to reduce screw heads, misses, and board damage. They're starting to see the light.

The cost is around $5 a tube... if you can squeeze 10 twelve footers at approx 50sqf each then yes it's .01$/sqf. Pretty sure there's more labor cost in coating 10 sheets of spots 3 times than 5$ -but we'll have to see about that one!


Thanks guys,
D'S


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## joepro0000

I don't know how well glue holds up, but I know it would be easier to tear the drywall of with glue vs screws. I'm working on a job now, where theres a couple of loose sheets that where glued to a CMU wall years and years ago, and its falling apart now.


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## moore

bull****


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## moore

joepro0000 said:


> I don't know how well glue holds up, but I know it would be easier to tear the drywall of with glue vs screws. I'm working on a job now, where theres a couple of loose sheets that where glued to a CMU wall years and years ago, and its falling apart now.


 bull****


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## Mudshark

joepro0000 said:


> I don't know how well glue holds up, but I know it would be easier to tear the drywall of with glue vs screws. I'm working on a job now, where theres a couple of loose sheets that where glued to a CMU wall years and years ago, and its falling apart now.


I think I gotta call BS on that one as well. Todays glues stick so strong it aint funny. Did some demolition work for one of the big drywall companies here a few years back. We were ripping board off the walls during a mall renovation and screwed boards certainly came off a lot easier than glued boards. :yes:


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## gazman

Glue is the standard here. It costs about .15c per m2. Some things to consider though.
1: We dont have poly on the inside.
2: I have noticed with some of the pics that you blokes have posted that often there are no noggings in the wall frames, so I assume that the rock acts as bracing. (I may be wrong?) If that is the case screws are a must glue would not do.
3: The glue we use is an acrylic that is made for drywall.
4: I have pulled down sheets that were glued and I had to use a chisel and a grinder to remove it.:yes:
5: Our specs say to use daubs not lines.


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## Kiwiman

I'll have to agree with Gaz, to get the acrylic glue off timber you have to chisel the timber out from under it and quite often it doesn't just rip the paper off but takes a big chunk out of the inner board, fresh glue might be different but when it is well cured I reckon it would hold better than screws because it's holding a larger surface area....thats in NZ anyway, I think OZ has very similar products.


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## Kiwiman

joepro0000 said:


> I don't know how well glue holds up, but I know it would be easier to tear the drywall of with glue vs screws. I'm working on a job now, where theres a couple of loose sheets that where glued to a CMU wall years and years ago, and its falling apart now.


Could be a nasty breed of glue Joe, I reckon the board should have temp screws put in to hold it against the glue until it dries and then removed so there's no chance of scew pops later.


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## Jason

Kiwiman said:


> Could be a nasty breed of glue Joe, I reckon the board should have temp screws put in to hold it against the glue until it dries and then removed so there's no chance of scew pops later.


Try cambering your boards bro.


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## Kiwiman

Jason said:


> Try cambering your boards bro.


Sorry for sounding a bit fick:blink:... but what do you mean by "cambering" the boards, is that something to do with installation?


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## harvey randall

*glue*

it eat ijnto the back faCE- JESUS grow a pair. glue only way to go, glue and tear down, give me call0-801-695-0070. its clean, its clean. when god glued the btenple, it was god nforssakin. but it w0oouldnt fall down...... gggggggggggggggggggglue.


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## Jason

Kiwiman said:


> Sorry for sounding a bit fick:blink:... but what do you mean by "cambering" the boards, is that something to do with installation?


A bit of a bow in the sheet will bring the center into hard contact with the stud & glue when you screw the edges. Means no field screws on walls and it's a great way to float the ever-crappy framing. 

Just stock your boards leaning on a wall with the face toward you a day or two before starting. Gravity will do the job. All boards facing out also means no ruined paper in angles from hangers too lazy to cleanly cut a down facing board. :furious:


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## harvey randall

*glue rock*

D's- been glueing for 30 years. - here in ogden utah. shame on me for my last post- i am sorry. now- glue a sheet, ceilin or wall, 3 in ceiling none in field on face rock. give 72 hours at 68 to 72 degree. and pull it off. dont try do it- prove it to your self. IT WONT COME OFF. test it with some osi adhisive. test, then you will know.


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## D's

Harv, I actually started this post a ways back when I was just getting into glueing, and been sold on it for the last 3 years. I used DSA20 Miracle for the first year but got tired of squeezing the trigger so tried the pull off test with foam adhesive instead and found it to be just as effective with added benefits. I second your none in the field on walls and 3 for the ceiling.

love the sincerity of your posts!


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## harvey randall

*glue*

sorry- didnt mean anything by it. harve


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## harvey randall

*D's- question on foam type glue.*

i heard about the foam stuff, never had the balls to try it, lost in my own- this here is the way my daddy did it bull. i hear it acts as a great shim for bad and unlevel studs. if you could tell me more i would be greatfull. the teached became the teacher, way before i ever posted. all- DETAILS, would be appreciated. thanks in advance. harve.


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## Titan Drywall

I am on the same page as most of you guys...glue a good thing, but i must say. There was an DW co. around these parts in the 60s that glued and backed out the screws. Now 40 yrs after the fact the adhesive is letting go. I maybe get a call a year from hos with this problem. It looks like the glue has "crystallized"..idk. Everything has a "half life" or rate of decay


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## Capt-sheetrock

To represent for the other side,,,,,,

I still hate glue and still re-fuse to use it.

So there !!!!!!


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## moore

Titan Drywall said:


> I am on the same page as most of you guys...glue a good thing, but i must say. There was an DW co. around these parts in the 60s that glued and backed out the screws. Now 40 yrs after the fact the adhesive is letting go. I maybe get a call a year from hos with this problem. It looks like the glue has "crystallized"..idk. Everything has a "half life" or rate of decay


 40 years from now I'll be 84! I won't be able to see my d!ck much less a screw pop..


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## gazman

Titan Drywall said:


> I am on the same page as most of you guys...glue a good thing, but i must say. There was an DW co. around these parts in the 60s that glued and backed out the screws. Now 40 yrs after the fact the adhesive is letting go. I maybe get a call a year from hos with this problem. It looks like the glue has "crystallized"..idk. Everything has a "half life" or rate of decay


Similar situation here. Moral of the story dont remove ceiling screws. Have not seen the problem with walls I guess gravity is not trying to rip it down.


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## brdn_drywall

started out hating it and only did it when asked....but for the last half of 2011 i been doing it again and during the winter when ever i have the time to wait on the interior walls after i hang the lid and can wait for the blow in and get the heat on (glue don't work so well when its below zero).....winter construction in Canada bites!!!!


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## Titan Drywall

moore said:


> 40 years from now I'll be 84! I won't be able to see my d!ck much less a screw pop..



I doubt you will make it to 84? Drywallers die early!!! Oh wait we will have Obama care..you will be just fine in your d!ckless seeing days. :thumbsup:


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## D's

Not many details to explain Harv... Works the same as reg. adhesive but is 1/10th the price and easier to gun. Makes a great gap filler if the boarding is loose - just trim with an Olfa knife when set. As for shimming bad framing, as long as the joint is shimmed the foam will take care of the field. I'll have to post a vid sometime.


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## harvey randall

*glueing*

this site remind me of a family reunion. cant wait to get there, and cant wait to leave. any thing i can get myself out of the way of- to learn im allfor. with that being said. ........ this site is holey ground for me. be in the zone gentleman, my prayer to ya. harve.


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## mudman46

*glue*

gotta say most think we still mash our mud by hand in P.E.I
and screw with a hand driver
i know why
for last 6 yrs i have tried to get local hangers to use glue
all they do is laugh the call me names like crazy*****
but i think this is the way to go
every sheet is only strong until paper rips
try to get a glued sheet off good luck having a bigger peace than between the studs
glue get's my vote


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## chris

I think the framers should use glue :yes:


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## msd

only place i see framers using adhesive is joist hangers and sub floor


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## harvey randall

*glueing rock*

heat your tubes in the winter-more plyable, also adhere to back face better, dust the back rock if its dusty, course o s i at70 degrees will stick to water. dont screw face down tight, if you do use screws or(nails)- because you want the sheet to seek its own level. glue also acts as a shim for bad studs as most are, that havent been kiln dried, and non of em are any more. they dry in the house over a period of 3 years. screws dont give-just rip through. been glueing here in ogden utah 20 years, not one problem. new ideas are a difficult thing for some folks-includeing me, thats how i know. i can glue a field in 30 seconds on a 15- how long to screw ? the real question isnt is it better to glue-because it is. the real question is what is cheaper in your region- material or manpower- sad but true in lots of cases. you cant tear it off though-no way. once 72 hours at 70 degrees has occured, its a done deal.


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## harvey randall

*glue- moore and mud shark*

wheres the mystery? you cant tear glued rock off. period. wheres the mystery- move up a notch, and be aquinted with some new tech. finally. only twenty years old. crybabbies. moore and mud shark are aware. but let us not argue, let me proove you right.


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## drywallninja

*Glue*



harvey randall said:


> wheres the mystery? you cant tear glued rock off. period. wheres the mystery- move up a notch, and be aquinted with some new tech. finally. only twenty years old. crybabbies. moore and mud shark are aware. but let us not argue, let me proove you right.


 Harve, have you noticed when a lightweight board is hung in the way you speak of, glue with only perimeter screwed, the center of the board being kinda humped out? Kinda creating a mega Flat?


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## fr8train

Might be a solution to the high shoulder problem!


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## gazman

drywallninja said:


> Harve, have you noticed when a lightweight board is hung in the way you speak of, glue with only perimeter screwed, the center of the board being kinda humped out? Kinda creating a mega Flat?


The solution to that is you tap up and down the stud with the ball of your fist to slightly flatten the glue.


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## moore

fr8train said:


> Might be a solution to the high shoulder problem!


When have you ever seen a piece of 5/8 regular board labeled 'high strength ' ? 
Or a 1/2 regular board labeled 'high strength' ?

The shoulder of the light weight boards Is what the manufacture considers ''high strength'' Hence....High shoulders! :yes:
It's a gimmick ! The field of the board is equivalent to a sheet of cardboard..It's weak. [half limestone half AIR!] The way I see It ...The only ones making good coin off the drywall trade these days are the ones making It !


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## fr8train

Only time I've seen that was on type x ceiling board awhile back... I think


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## moore

But you get where I'm coming from?


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## DETROIT ROCK

Anybody ever see blue osi glue about 10 years ago we had more then one case it was blue
never seen it before or since. I use a lot of glue.


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## super rocker

I have not seen that glue, but 30 years ago I used GOLD screws.


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## drywallninja

gazman said:


> The solution to that is you tap up and down the stud with the ball of your fist to slightly flatten the glue.


 Gazman,
Tried having the hangers do that, but the board is still kinda humped out the middle. I think that solution may be to put few a screws possible, or enough to flatten the board out, and then do what Moore mentioned once and pull the screws out once glue has set up. Just trying to find a solution to this issue with screws popping. Thanks for y'all's input. 

I love it, I hate it. I hate it, I love it


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## fr8train

Solution to screw pops, it's too give everything enough time to dry out and shrink. Preferably before hanging, and then enough time for the glue to cure before finishing.


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## drywallninja

fr8train said:


> Solution to screw pops, it's too give everything enough time to dry out and shrink. Preferably before hanging, and then enough time for the glue to cure before finishing.


I'm with ya 100% on that fr8train. Now if we could only get our GC's on board with that idea. Then we'd all be sitting in high cotton. :thumbsup:


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## chris

Or you can use steel, no reason for glue then


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## D's

drywallninja said:


> Harve, have you noticed when a lightweight board is hung in the way you speak of, glue with only perimeter screwed, the center of the board being kinda humped out? Kinda creating a mega Flat?


I've notice a slight hump in the middle of the sheet when using adhesive for the field too but like the Moore and F8train are saying it helps with the high shoulders and a quick slap in the middle helps it lay a little flatter. A big reason I prefer the foam to mastic adhesive is that it smears out much better once the perimeter is screwed & bowing out isn't as bad.


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## cracker

fr8train said:


> Solution to screw pops, it's too give everything enough time to dry out and shrink. Preferably before hanging, and then enough time for the glue to cure before finishing.


are you sayin the glue needs to cure???...wow. I've never heard anyone think like me!!! Ive been telling GC for some odd years now. I like my glue....but not on high moisture wood. Wood is going to suck up, then glue will suck up( a little) makes for a big ole screw head rise up. we've have had one hellva winter. I can already see it happening.


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## fr8train

There are old threads on here where it was stated that the board was hung on well dried framing, but still ended up with screw "pops". General consensus in those threads, was as the glue dried/cured is sucked the board in a little tighter, and effectively popped/raised the screw, even though the screw never moved.


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## gazman

I thought that I would throw my pennys worth in on this one. As most of you know we use A LOT of glue over here. It is part of the specs in Oz. The current job we are on has top angles (We mostly use cornice) so we decided to use a bit more glue. We are gluing the parimeter of the ceiling sheets with the field screws about a foot away. Then we put up the top wall sheet, lifting it up tight. Any deviations are taken up with the glue.


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## mld

Nice work Gaz! Love the steel framing.


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## thefinisher

Yall's boarding looks amazing. Would love to finish behind the boarding over there. Glue, hardly any screws, hardly any butt joints. You finishers over there are spoiled :yes:


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## cracker

fr8train said:


> There are old threads on here where it was stated that the board was hung on well dried framing, but still ended up with screw "pops". General consensus in those threads, was as the glue dried/cured is sucked the board in a little tighter, and effectively popped/raised the screw, even though the screw never moved.


Roger that! You know, we almost need a new type of adhesive! Almost like a "roll on contact adhesive". One that goes on very flat and has a good open time. I know the bead of glue helps with leveling, but makes a pancake between the dw and stud. Drywall is not structural, so its not going to pull to stud and press glue, and clutch on screw gun stops pulling when screw head is set....lord knows it stops pulling faster now with the light wt dw.


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## mld

thefinisher said:


> Yall's boarding looks amazing. Would love to finish behind the boarding over there. Glue, hardly any screws, hardly any butt joints. You finishers over there are spoiled :yes:


Don't forget, their wall sheets only have bevels on one edge too!


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## gazman

mld said:


> Don't forget, their wall sheets only have bevels on one edge too!


Not 100% corect Mld. They are available as a special order, but stock sheet has a recess on both sides.


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## cazna

gazman said:


> Not 100% corect Mld. They are available as a special order, but stock sheet has a recess on both sides.


Same for us as well, Nice work gaz, Very tidy, I will mention that corner glue no screws thing to some builders here when I get the chance.


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## moore

cracker said:


> Roger that! You know, we almost need a new type of adhesive! Almost like a "roll on contact adhesive". One that goes on very flat and has a good open time. I know the bead of glue helps with leveling, but makes a pancake between the dw and stud. Drywall is not structural, so its not going to pull to stud and press glue, and clutch on screw gun stops pulling when screw head is set....lord knows it stops pulling faster now with the light wt dw.


1/4 '' bead of glue. Place board . Pull board back . Then place board and screw off .


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## endo_alley

Here we have plastic vapor barrier on all exterior walls and quite often fabric for spray insulation covering studs and joists. So glue is out of the question. Shimming is also a problem when glue is used.


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## Trim-Tex

Shim on a Roll works with glue. 

Joe


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## Trim-Tex

http://www.trim-tex.com/product_catalog.php?cat_display=showproduct&id=92

Have a great day!


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## Bazooka-Joe

seen it done no probs, quicker finish


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## gordie

We are pretty much done with glue, boarders are all fly by night. Every month brings a new batch of guys they never have glue guns and if you glue with a lazy attitude for eg. not bothering to see if walls rattle when you slap your hands on it we just have to come in and screw off anyways. Plus out here we have to rip down half the walls we put up "total bull****" so sick of scraping studs. then as far as expence we lose so much glue once a box is open they get dropped leaving full tubes useless and of course always left behind and tapers do not give a **** about boarders left over glue cant blame them I sure don't care about there left over mud either.
boarders seem to always care about screws they need them to make money so they will carry them to the next job no questions asked glue is just a hassle to most and is treated that way left behind and wasted. 


Been away for awhile im the boarding boss with the company I work with and it got pretty hectic I miss just boarding but I am finding a lot more opportunity to learn some taping skills finally some hands on so sorry for falling off for a while you guys are a huge resourse for me and tks for that


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## super rocker

It is so sad your hangers are idiots. If they are unwilling to hang drywall the proper way, good riddance. I sure wish I lived in Canada to show them how to use a frigging glue gun.


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## Bazooka-Joe

gordie said:


> We are pretty much done with glue, boarders are all fly by night. Every month brings a new batch of guys they never have glue guns and if you glue with a lazy attitude for eg. not bothering to see if walls rattle when you slap your hands on it we just have to come in and screw off anyways. Plus out here we have to rip down half the walls we put up "total bull****" so sick of scraping studs. then as far as expence we lose so much glue once a box is open they get dropped leaving full tubes useless and of course always left behind and tapers do not give a **** about boarders left over glue cant blame them I sure don't care about there left over mud either.
> boarders seem to always care about screws they need them to make money so they will carry them to the next job no questions asked glue is just a hassle to most and is treated that way left behind and wasted.
> 
> 
> Been away for awhile im the boarding boss with the company I work with and it got pretty hectic I miss just boarding but I am finding a lot more opportunity to learn some taping skills finally some hands on so sorry for falling off for a while you guys are a huge resourse for me and tks for that


seems everytime I read a Gordie post he is dropping some weight from the week gone buy:blink:


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## gordie

I do agree with u guys I like glue. when I do a big I use it works great for my system of boarding and tapers do like it but you have to point it out for them to notice lol.

but im also the boss over the other boarders and my company dont pay for tools so half the time im left lending out my tools to these idiots you mention "some are my best friends:whistling2: ". im also left explaining the wasted supplies. Whether I like it or not the decision is no glue except for me or if requested because the boss don't like wasting money and screws do work fine. 

on a side note something I cant back up but was told to me by some ticketed boarders from Quebec "they have to get a ticket out there"
told me they are done with glue out there because it will spot through the drywall and paint later down the road don't know if its true mabie some one else does.


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## mld

Hey Gordie, good to see you back, ya lurking bastard:whistling2:






LOL


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## moore

gordie said:


> told me they are done with glue out there because it will spot through the drywall and paint later down the road don't know if its true mabie some one else does.


Are they using sub-floor glue?:blink:


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## moore

Good to hear from ya Gordie!:thumbsup:


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## gordie

moore said:


> Are they using sub-floor glue?:blink:


Nope they used drywall glue it's mostly union out there they supply everything so I cant help but wonder if it is true my French buddy told me about it when I let him know he didn't have to use glue anymore. And its good be back mang :thumbup:


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## Bazooka-Joe

So u do commercial Gordie


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## gordie

Bazooka-Joe said:


> So u do commercial Gordie


I,ve done quite a bit of commercial my first 3 years were commercial for the most part but now we do residential houses and a lot of condos and townhomes . badly built I might add :whistling2:


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## endo_alley

Trim-Tex said:


> Shim on a Roll works with glue.
> 
> Joe


But vapor barrier on exterior walls and rafters is a problem. Or paper faced insulation. And fabric for interior blown in insulation is also a problem. If you live in an area where no vapor barrier is needed and no insulation then glue would be great. We have pretty stringent insulation codes. Almost all walls have some form of insulation.


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## evolve991

chris said:


> I think the framers should use glue :yes:


Yes! And when they do they should wipe down the globs. Hate those stalagtites on the joist hangers!


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