# newbie with some questions



## coupe (Apr 14, 2009)

I am new to this site and I do not do drywall professionally. I can do it and well, but to be honest with you guys you do not get paid enough for what you do. I changed up a while back from framing construction to installation of fire prevention sytems to get to the money. I have worked in most areas of construction and alot of the trades don't get paid thier werth either. Every thing and I mean everything in construction has gone to the slamb, bam thankyou mam system. I noticed on the last couple of jobs i was on that drywallers are using these plastic glue on inside corners, much like the bull nose outside ones.any pros or cons to them. The drywaller who taught me swore by mud and tape, the fibermesh self sticking tape he said was junk, and he was right. I just started seeing the inside corners used around here. Next question i watch crews fill mud boxes and all but run down the walls with them, they tape, apply a filler coat and then top coat. one day for each, in less they are in a big hurry. some texture some don't. My question here is that every job like this if you go back a couple of months later you can see every single seem in foot wide patterns. Does the mud dry down over time and shrink up. The guy that taught me learned from a veteran i guess you would say, the kind that you fill nail holes for the first year and then when you can do that you move on. I was taught that if you want nice walls you need to strike 10 each way of the center. Do the rest of the pros agree. My old friend who taught me the basics isn't around any more so I thought i would ask the opinions of this board for insight. With this economy in the dump it seems as if guys are cutting thier own throats to get work. I know we all need jobs but working for damn near free won't get any of us anywear. My two cents
Coupe


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm not really sure what the question was, but I believe it had to do with the finish. Unless you're doing a level 5 finish, you're always going to see markings with sunlight. It's just how it is.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Coupe, your old buddy may have been referring to butts which yes, need to be doubled out to look right. And the market today forces the tapers to use the boxes to stay competitive. But the lines don't _have_ to show if the job is a) sanded right and b) painted with flat paint and a heavy enough nap roller. That "showing in the light" usually more because some jerk upgrades to eggshell or shinier paint, or because the sanders were jerking around. If you're new to the DW gig, take some advice and do some serious research before you take up finishing and have to answer to quality issues. GCs will make you pay dearly for poor QC now more than ever. This means that you better know the job as well as what's going on your wall after you leave, thinking you're all done and that it all looks good. All it takes is stepping up a sheen on paint to wreck what you think is a perfect job -- it'll make you and the painter look like hacks.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

plastic glue?

to me, mud and tape was and IS always standard, at least in my area. thank god.

theres plenty of ways you can cut corners in drywall, and 'i get it' especially running a business, i.e. production work, tract homes, etc.

but still.......my philosophy was always to still do a good job. its just funny because sometimes you think you yourself may be compromising your own standards, but compared to 'the next guy' you might as well be a level 5.

ive heard of companies putting on tape, then just ONE COAT of quickset.....then texturing, just to cut labor, time, costs, etc......a year later (and less as well) all, and i mean ALL the jobs come back on them.

i know a company who did a 300 unit apartment complex like that.....6 mos later, every single seam was visible.......110%.

they are no longer in business though, fortunately.

anyways, look up what a level 4 finish is....and just stick to that when you can. i know how to do a 'fast job' but still make it look good......obtaining a skill like that comes only with experience and knowledge -- every job is a different circumstance, i.e. everything is CASE by CASE. you cant apply the same methods to every single job, just realize this.

Darrens right, you dont have to do a level 5 everytime, but it just depends on the sanding and painter.

i gotta take a huge dump, so this is why this post may not sound coherent btw hahhahahha

gotta run!!!!!!!!!!!


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

turtle head


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

anyways, im back from the bathroom....

haha....lemme clarify a bit on what i said above:

whats scary, is ill have finishers come work for me.....and how FAST they can finish some of my jobs.......which, is ridiculous. 

its just amazing because i have to re-SCHOOL some of these finishers to get away from doing production finishing......its just down right scary sometimes.

i implement a rule (which should be common to any good finisher) is that you dont get paid unless you visit the job 4 times.

as in,

trip 1 - tape (complete)
trip 2 - 1st coat
trip 3 - sand / 2nd coat
trip 4 - sand /touch-up

at my company, this is the LEAST......the LEEEEEAST a finisher can do.

ive had finishers finish a house in 3 trips, and waiting to get paid his full piecework.........its just ridiculous some of these production-bred finishers.

and like i said, i 'get it', i really do......but like i said above, to me, theres a difference btwn a 'fast job' and a 'shi-tty job.'

just dont ever compromise your own standards. however....dont do the opposite either.

i even have finishers who think they can spend 6-7 trips on a house, taking their sweet ass time , even though they are getting piecework.

what im saying is, keep in mind your employer at all times, and that they ARE running a business. you are gonna have to find a groove and a rhythm wherever you work....each employer will expect different.

another thing thats very important i wanted to state, before having to take a huge dump hahah.....is DRYING.

you HAVE to allow enough drying time btwn EACH coat....you have to.

this is tough to do in production, but rush a job and it will come back to you nearly 95% of the time 4-6 mos later.....the seams well be swelling and showing like theres no tomorrow.

what i always do, when i check a job........for example, if youre on the 1st coat, and it APPEARS dry.......take the globs of excess mud in the outlets...........squeeze those globs with your fingers. if its rock hard, its obviously dry...................if its still a bit SOFT in the middle, and gives real easy.......well, then you know its not '100% dry'

just dont take chanches. when times were good, i was doing about 300 production homes a year.......so ive had plenty of experience and chances to f--k up quite frankly. hell yea ill admit it. i never make those mistakes anymore though, especially since times are so slow now.

good luck


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

carpentaper said:


> turtle head


HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHa

uknow it buddy!


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

welcome to the site. from drywall to poo poo we have it all. i'm kinda new myself. most of my comments as of lately have been dookie related seeing as how i know a lot more about that than i do taping. i mostly ask questions.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Custom calls it schooling... I like to call it stump-breaking....

Coupe, you'll also see here that some have a penchant for using a lot of quickset mud. In the midwest, it has its place for prefilling for instance, but don't try cutting days on a production job with it on sanded work. Custom's way right on drying time, that's a sure way to have everything show up later (as well as use of quickset for fill coat).


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Custom calls it schooling... I like to call it stump-breaking....
> 
> Coupe, you'll also see here that some have a penchant for using a lot of quickset mud. In the midwest, it has its place for prefilling for instance, but don't try cutting days on a production job with it on sanded work. Custom's way right on drying time, that's a sure way to have everything show up later (as well as use of quickset for fill coat).


hahah

by the way Darren, JUST to make it clear......

i do NOT EVER EVER EVER endorse quickset for finishing hahahah....especially COMPLETE finishing, no way.

as bad as some finishers are nowadays, i myself have never seen anyone in front of my face or on my jobs use QUICKSET for complete finishing.

so....to make that clear, i do NOT endorse that. im simply describing the shoddiest of shortcuts from a competing drywall company in my area, haha.

to give more detail actually, to that company:

the owner of the company was (keyword "was") a hotshot 'tech investor' back in the day.....who wanted to buy a tangible business to invest it, which was, you guessed it -- drywall.

so, being he has no professional background in drywall, he wanted to make the most money he can -- nothing wrong here..........YET.

however, he found out from his patchguys a little product we all know as, you guessed it again -- "quickset"

drywall not being his background (but rather technology stocks), he asked himself "hell, if this dries faster than regular mud, i can get more done AND pay less"

........all of us pros know that is RIDICULOUSLY naive and uneducated.

so.....there you go.


it was amazing too, for the longest time, this guy was getting nearly ALL the work in my area....simply because he was charging at what all us drywall guys THOUGHT was at 'cost'........but he was simply saving on labor and material.

like i said, the freakin guy would have his crews tape.........quickset as a first coat.............and touch-up (mayyyyybe).........then proceed to texture.

done.

but like i said, this has severely come back to bite him in the ass.

he's no longer in business, thank god.........now the rest of the legit drywall companies in this area can FINALLY "compete" not worrying about always being low-balled by this clown.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

And I'm not saying that a room addition that is all texture walls and ceilings at the Lake can't be done with Quickset in a single day, in&out. Just can't do it on a sanded wall if you expect it to look like anything but hammered a$$. And if used on a ceiling and it's acoustic tex., have seen guys try this and come in to sand the next day to find the spray fell off onto the floor overnite.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> And I'm not saying that a room addition that is all texture walls and ceilings at the Lake can't be done with Quickset in a single day, in&out. Just can't do it on a sanded wall if you expect it to look like anything but hammered a$$. And if used on a ceiling and it's acoustic tex., have seen guys try this and come in to sand the next day to find the spray fell off onto the floor overnite.


youre kidding me??

man, i hope i read that correctly, please let me know if im misunderstanding:

theres actually idiots out there who instead of scraping acoustic (popcorn) texture off a clng, they skim coat over it?????

and with quickset?????

hahahha, did i read that correctly darren?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I wasn't clear I guess. Some years back, A competitor had his taper use Quickset to finish the ceilings as he was behind schedule. The final coat of mud was quickset. The taper then sprayed the ceilings with acoustic texture. The next day he was to sand said house. When he showed up to sand, the areas he used quickset ( taper joints, butts, nail spots ) were pretty bare. The only places that had texture still adhering was the paper and the IS corners between the ceiling and wall. Everyplace quickset was used, the acoustic fell off onto the floor. He had to scrape the ceilings down and recoat all the quickset work with regular mud and wait to spray again. Threw the schedule off maybe three days. I let that be a free lesson to self and NEVER use the stuff behind acoustic. Will however still do it on a KD job as described in rare occasions.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

ahhh i see...


hahhahaha....still, thats funny.

next question, do you guys actually still do acoustic texture as a spray option??


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Sprayed exactly one house in all of 08, but still have requests for garages to be acoustic...


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sprayed exactly one house in all of 08, but still have requests for garages to be acoustic...


WOW.

in my area, that has been dead for over 15 years now.

ill be honest, i dont even know how to do that texture hahaha.

everywheres different though, just goes to show ya.

ive heard of some drywall guys in other areas across the state that dont even know what a bazooka is.

go figure.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Ya, the girls still wear blue eye shadow here too. BIL from San diego visits twice a year and tells us how "quaint" it is here...


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

What about those super cool reeboks with the super flappy toungue. I'd imagine a dude with those would look pretty honkin cool next to a chick like that. Def Leapord 4-eva :walkman:


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