# First time banjo user



## abaway

I've just started a job using a banjo for the first time. I got a Marshalltown tape shooter from Allwall. I'm liking it so far and have a few observations. I'm getting about 35' of tape out per fill-up. Is this about normal or should I be getting more? It seems very sloppy. Mud leaks from all over the tool(not dripping) and as I'm pulling tape out. I thought I might be thinning it too much but any thicker and it's difficult to pull tape out.
It's definately faster than hand taping. The only thing I'm having trouble with so far is the wall to ceiling joints.


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## 19Riggs88

abaway said:


> I've just started a job using a banjo for the first time. I got a Marshalltown tape shooter from Allwall. I'm liking it so far and have a few observations. I'm getting about 35' of tape out per fill-up. Is this about normal or should I be getting more? It seems very sloppy. Mud leaks from all over the tool(not dripping) and as I'm pulling tape out. I thought I might be thinning it too much but any thicker and it's difficult to pull tape out.
> It's definately faster than hand taping. The only thing I'm having trouble with so far is the wall to ceiling joints.


It sounds to me like your banjo leaks because it is set to leave a lot more mud than needed behind the tape. Try and adjust the banjo so it will tape about 45' per banjo full of mud. 

As far as mud consistancy goes in the banjo I prefer it to be slightly thinner than boxing mud.


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## silverstilts

As far as setting the amount of mud its kinda a persona preference personally i open mine all the way up because i like to have lots of mud to fill the voids , even opened up all the way still won't come close to what a bazooka will leave on the tape which to me is one advantage of a bazooka... could it be when you pull out the tape your are pulling the mud side of the tape against the banjo opening wiping off your mud try riding the dry side of the tape more towards the blade ,, most banjos you need to place a piece of tape right at the end of the banjo nose before closing the door on it ,,, they usually all leak some but shouldn't be excessive and running out , could be your mud is to thin , I still think it is the way you are pulling the tape out ..


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## silverstilts

Your mud should be thin enough so that you can pour it I compare it to a thick pancake batter , if it is too thick you won't get the proper flow behind the tape when wiping down causing air bubbles behind the tape.


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## abaway

I used it more today and it's getting better. I closed the mud flap a little and used a little thicker mud. 
Also found out what the strap on the side is for:thumbup: It works great for the ceiling.


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## silverstilts

abaway said:


> I used it more today and it's getting better. I closed the mud flap a little and used a little thicker mud.
> Also found out what the strap on the side is for:thumbup: It works great for the ceiling.


 You got to be kidding right  , have you never seen any one tape before ???? where on earth do you guys come from anyway , no wonder drywall gets a bad name...


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## abaway

silverstilts said:


> You got to be kidding right  , have you never seen any one tape before ???? where on earth do you guys come from anyway , no wonder drywall gets a bad name...


Never seen anyone tape with a banjo. I'm not in the US and if you think people do crappy work where you are, you should see some of the stuff I've seen here. I don't want to learn from anyone around here. That's why I'm here, trying to learn how to do it the right way.
Sorry if I offended you oh great drywall master:blink:


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## silverstilts

So where are you from ? I do feel sorry for anyone that decides to just get into the business without any type of training... I will tell you this it is going to be a long road if you have to learn the tricks of the trade on your own .... it's one thing to read or hear about doing something but without the actual hands on along side another in the same trade , well lets just say OUCH ! I know years ago i when first learning I thought i was doing good and i was but , only to a certain extent , the real true learning experience was when i moved to an area where i had a chance to work with other crews , it was then i seen and learned a lot of techniques and shortcuts that i don't know if i would have ever discovered on my own and if i would have it may have taken years , who knows and can say for sure , but my hats off to you ... Just remember USE Your GOOD COMMON SENSE , Keep It Simple , And don't Complicate Things By Over Analyzing the Small Stuff :rockon:


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## JustMe

abaway said:


> Never seen anyone tape with a banjo. I'm not in the US and if you think people do crappy work where you are, you should see some of the stuff I've seen here. I don't want to learn from anyone around here. That's why I'm here, trying to learn how to do it the right way.:blink:


jon (1wallboardsman) has a couple of instructional videos on his website you could buy that explain some things: http://www.newtapingtoolsstore.com/

You can also watch him and others tape on places like youtube.

Go to www.youtube.com and type in 'drywall banjo taping' in the search box at the top. It'll bring up a video or 2. You'll see a menu pull down when you put in 'drywall', that lists other taping areas, such as doing corners. When you think you've found what works, you could try posting a link here. Maybe someone(s) will critique it for you.

As for your leaking banjo, I'd say mud is too thin. I like mine pourable, but not too pourable.

No one in my company uses a banjo, and I've never seen anyone else use one. A couple of things I'm doing with mine:
- It's an Ames Cobra model, with a steel nose cutter. I'll sometimes press the cutter nose lightly against wall as I'm taping. It helps set the tape, so it's not pulling away so readily from the corner where I started. But it takes a bit of a 'touch' to do it well, while not slowing you down too much.
- Doing this pressing with the nose, especially when you think you should be getting fairly close to running out of enough tape mud to coat all the tape, I found to be a help. It will let you know if you're getting mud on all the tape, or just on some - usually the top of the tape doesn't get it towards the end of a run. If the mud isn't squeezing out a bit from both sides of the tape at all times when I'm pushing the nose into it, then I stop and reload. It means my mud is starting to skip/miss spots on the tape. This will help prevent getting some loose tape areas which may not be noticeable at first, till you start coating your tapes. Then you have to fix.
- I'm thinking about maybe using some kind of a temporary pin at the start of some of my longer tape runs at times, to help prevent tapes from moving away from the starting point. Then I could focus on running the tape quicker and more accurately, without having to also pay attention to if it's moving, and keeping the tape tighter so there's less issues when wiping tape down. The pin would be removed when I go back to wipe down tape.
- Except when doing firewall taping with it, I run my banjo wide open, often even on butt joints. With butt joints, the layer of the mud that comes out I use to build a 'slope' on either side of the tape, to get the mud in what will be the thickest spot for mud, drying right away. Running it wide open also let's me be sure that I'm getting enough mud on when taping flats (the bevelled joints), so when I wipe them down with my knife, the tapes are sitting high enough so that I can get good contact between tape and wall. I have to reload a little sooner, but filling it by pouring from a bucket takes little time, and I won't have potential loose tapes that can later cause problems and eat up time.


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## Whitey97

ha youtube.... watch drywallinfoguy, he's the sh!t


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## JoeMudder

abaway said:


> Never seen anyone tape with a banjo. I'm not in the US and if you think people do crappy work where you are, you should see some of the stuff I've seen here. I don't want to learn from anyone around here. That's why I'm here, trying to learn how to do it the right way.
> Sorry if I offended you oh great drywall master:blink:


One of the things I like about using a banjo is that you don't get dry spots behind the tape as you do by pulling the tape out of a hopper. Also, the roll plow was made to be used with the banjo and saves a lot of wiping time compared to using a knife. The banjo doesn't have a huge learning curve to it, you basically use common sense. Don't use 500' rolls of tape in it unless you're a muscle man, I recommend the 250' rolls and make sure your mud isn't too thick else you'll wear your arm out pulling tape through it. The more mud you have in it, the harder the tape is to pull through. I recommend filling the banjo about 80% with compound until you get used to using it. Then if you feel gungho and want to fill it up, go for it.


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## [email protected]

Not to piss any body off but ... It ain't rocket science. No one ever showed me even how to load a banjo much less use it. But have seen a couple of tards run the tape _under the mud_ -- lmao. Pull a Nike and just do it. What would you guys do without the internet?
How many old-timers out there had to break in with a "hog trough" before they ever laid eyes on a banjo? For me it was the same technology jump as from a banjo to bazooka.


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## JoeMudder

[email protected] said:


> Not to piss any body off but ... It ain't rocket science. No one ever showed me even how to load a banjo much less use it. But have seen a couple of tards run the tape _under the mud_ -- lmao. Pull a Nike and just do it. What would you guys do without the internet?
> How many old-timers out there had to break in with a "hog trough" before they ever laid eyes on a banjo? For me it was the same technology jump as from a banjo to bazooka.


I had a guy working for me who actually used to own his own company. I handed him a banjo one day and watched him as he tried to use it with the compound on top of the tape, he was trying to figure out why the mud was on the wrong side of the tape when he pulled it out.

When I started using the banjo I thought it was a bit tough to pull the tape through. But then I realized to put just a little less mud in and although it's still a bit tough, it's not quite as bad. Once I got used to it I realized the advantages of it.


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## MudMonkey

how do you string the banjo? Are any of you good enough to play it with an inbred blind boy in ohhhh...lets say the ozarks?


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## moore

banjos are for bluegrass.. not sheet rock :whistling2:


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## Kiwiman

Speaking of banjo's and bluegrass, you don't see the capt around here much anymore, did I miss something... I bet it was that flamin 2Buck


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## chris

*250'*



JoeMudder said:


> I had a guy working for me who actually used to own his own company. I handed him a banjo one day and watched him as he tried to use it with the compound on top of the tape, he was trying to figure out why the mud was on the wrong side of the tape when he pulled it out.
> 
> When I started using the banjo I thought it was a bit tough to pull the tape through. But then I realized to put just a little less mud in and although it's still a bit tough, it's not quite as bad. Once I got used to it I realized the advantages of it.


 using 250' helps tremendously:thumbsup:


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## jmr

im sure people have stated but thin mud down. open the mouth of the banjo with a flat head screw driver and then control the mud output by putting 2 to 3 peices of tape, about 3 '' long right by the mouth.. that will close it up when you don't need lots of mud coming out like flats and butts.. i'll open mine up more for angles.. this will also prevent mud driping out.

taping walls is pretty easy, taping cielings is a little more difficult. you basically sling shot the tape up. drag out about arms lenght and whip it up on the ceiling.....


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## cdwoodcox

PHP:


I'm thinking about maybe using some kind of a temporary pin at the start of some of my longer tape runs at times, to help prevent tapes from moving away from the starting point. Then I could focus on running the tape quicker and more accurately, without having to also pay attention to if it's moving, and keeping the tape tighter so there's less issues when wiping tape down. The pin would be removed when I go back to wipe down tape.

 You understand that is what your other hand is for pressing tape in corner and keep it from moving as you walk.

this is the style banjo I have always ran seems to be better than the marshall town. Doesn't seem to have some of the issues as the other style.
Main thing with the banjo make sure your not pulling dry tape you will learn how it will sound different when your almost out of mud and don't be afraid to get dirty keep a wash bucket with a sponge next to your mud bucket. Keeping your hands clean while running banjo is impossible.


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## chris

*Kraft Banjo*

:thumbup::thumbup: By far best banjo made. 250'rolls of tape ,thinner mud ,{pourable} and yes a pce of tape at end helps.Takes a while to break in a banjo:blink: what I mean is the leaking issue. What Ive found to work best is to not clean it especially around lid seal,clean outside of it but let the mud form a tight seal {dry up } around top opening. Keep the tape inlet slot free of mud{clean}to help tape pull smoother also can spray a lil wd40 in tape holding compartment.When banjo starts to feel light means youre bout out of mud.250' rolls pull sooooo much smooother:thumbup:. Been trying to post vid on banjo running ...cant figure it out:blink:


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## Capt-sheetrock

Kiwiman said:


> Speaking of banjo's and bluegrass, you don't see the capt around here much anymore, did I miss something... I bet it was that flamin 2Buck


 Naw Kiwi, I'm still around, That 2buck fella can't run me off, specially with all them HOT sheep pics he keeps posting.

I use the Marshalltown sharpshooter myself. I have modified it, but it works fine right out of the box. One thing to check is the lid closure, the lid should "scrape" the base as it closes, specially near the nose, if it don't, take your drywall hammer and "beat or bend" the lip over till it scrapes the edge. Major inprovement. If the the clip don't hold it down tight, then take a pair of pylers and bend the clip abit to make it "snap" closed. I agree about 250's, unless its a perfect day (and we ain't one since the 2008 election) a 500 ft'er will cause more grive than they are worth. About thin mud, thin it down till your sure it's too thin, then add another 16 oz's of water. LOL, really tho, if your 5" knife won't sink down into the bucket, your muds too thick.


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Naw Kiwi, I'm still around, That 2buck fella can't run me off, specially with all them HOT sheep pics he keeps posting.


Well.......since you asked for more pics


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Well.......since you asked for more pics


Oooooh....topless!!!


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## betterdrywall

It's best to use a measuring cup if your a first time user, once you find the right amount of water for the material YOU are using or prefer to use. then your set. 
When I am up on stilts I hit everything and never leave a lid incomplete. I will take the extra time and first coat the screws while I am there as well. I never start on the ground with a banjo. always the highest lid first. And I will never wait on flats to dry to run the angles. When all the lids are taped and screws coated... then I will run the ground work. everytime I see someone taping and coating a room.. and there is still tape left off needing to be done on the cieling all I can think of is Yuck..


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## Capt-sheetrock

betterdrywall said:


> It's best to use a measuring cup if your a first time user, once you find the right amount of water for the material YOU are using or prefer to use. then your set.
> When I am up on stilts I hit everything and never leave a lid incomplete. I will take the extra time and first coat the screws while I am there as well. I never start on the ground with a banjo. always the highest lid first. And I will never wait on flats to dry to run the angles. When all the lids are taped and screws coated... then I will run the ground work. everytime I see someone taping and coating a room.. and there is still tape left off needing to be done on the cieling all I can think of is Yuck..


 Well said


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## chris

got to be careful spottin screws with tapin mud:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock

chris said:


> got to be careful spottin screws with tapin mud:whistling2:


 I believe he was saying since your up on stilts anyway, after you get it taped, get abit of regular (straight out of the bucket) mud and hit the screws while your up there.


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## betterdrywall

Thanks captain usually just a half bucket,mixed just right... and I have it on my cart.


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## chris

wasnt sayin you did, just like to tape ,tape,and tape til tape is on:thumbsup: I also run angles at same time but most of time will start on walls beings thats where most of the board is,besides if is 8' you can string entire wall floor to ceiling on wall butts and angles and then blowout gravy lids. When I get off stilts iits time to go home. Same goes for taller walls,get as much as you can from floor to eliminate overtaping on stilts .Less on stilts is better oon body:yes:


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## betterdrywall

I understand Chris,, Just saying if you are on stilts ,, best not be on a merry-go- round . best to get as much as you can when in a room before you leave it .. Speed will be gained with the prep and steps you make as you go. Less footwork = more speed. get a good cart, keep a bucket of water about half full, your banjo mud and some coating mud . Yes you can get all this on one cart. I use the water bucket to lay my banjo on to fill up, and before I fill up I bush off any mud thats on the banjo with the water bucket so it stays clean when I am running it. fillup and go. you can also keep your roller and glazer sitting in the water bucket as well. I usually just lay them across the top rail of the cart.


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## Capt-sheetrock

betterdrywall said:


> I understand Chris,, Just saying if you are on stilts ,, best not be on a merry-go- round . best to get as much as you can when in a room before you leave it .. Speed will be gained with the prep and steps you make as you go. Less footwork = more speed. get a good cart, keep a bucket of water about half full, your banjo mud and some coating mud . Yes you can get all this on one cart. I use the water bucket to lay my banjo on to fill up, and before I fill up I bush off any mud thats on the banjo with the water bucket so it stays clean when I am running it. fillup and go. you can also keep your roller and glazer sitting in the water bucket as well. I usually just lay them across the top rail of the cart.


 Either wer'e twins, or we both saw the same u-tube video !!!!:thumbsup:


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## betterdrywall

It's not the video's Captain,, Great Minds think alike


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## DETROIT ROCK

Ever see tape cut right through the aluminum on a banjo? In the back right were the tape enters. I have had more then one do this.


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## betterdrywall

DETROIT ROCK said:


> Ever see tape cut right through the aluminum on a banjo? In the back right were the tape enters. I have had more then one do this.


 Yes it is called working your azz off when that happens


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## JustMe

cdwoodcox said:


> PHP:
> 
> 
> this is the style banjo I have always ran seems to be better than the marshall town. Doesn't seem to have some of the issues as the other style.[/QUOTE]
> 
> I've run mostly that design - the Ames Cobra model one. It's more rugged than the Marshalltown Tapeshooter I tried, which can be good for how I don't like to babysit tools. But it's heavier.


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## Capt-sheetrock

I"ve run most of the banjos out there. The one in your post looks like a goldblait. If its not, its a goldblait knockoff. Yes the tape will cut through the back of that type banjo. You can take apiece of laminate countertop, and glue it to the backof the banjo over the cut, use regular contact cement. It will stay in place and fix the problem. The Marshalltown does not have this problem. Also the mashalltown can feed the tape down through the top whereas that model the tape has to be pushed through the nose, making it a royal pain when the tape breaks and you have a full banjo. I ran that style for the first 15 years I used a banjo, but after i tried the Marshalltown, i never looked back. The sharpshooter holds 1/2 again as much mud, the tape passes down into it without haveing to be threaded, the tape doesn't cut the back and it never wears out, EVER.


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## chris

any opinions on Kraft banjos?does anybody use the wood handel on top of banjo?its kinda useless to me


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## Capt-sheetrock

chris said:


> any opinions on Kraft banjos?does anybody use the wood handel on top of banjo?its kinda useless to me


 THe wood handle is just for carrying it back and forth to the truck,,,,lol,,, really tho some guys use the wood handle when they are running ceiling flats. They are running while they do it tho. In other words, in the norm, we take a step and slap the tape up, repeat, etc. If you hold the wood handle and angle the banjo backwards a bit, you can just "walk" and lay the tape up.


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## chris

Ive done standup angles with it but have since removed it ...a long time ago


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## betterdrywall

Why would someone remove the wood handle from a banjo? I use it all the time for wall angles.


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## chris

wall angles only.I prefer keeping banjo in one position for all taping ,kinda retarted switchiinyour grip over and over from one angle to the next. Messy,slow .That is why my banjo doesnt have wood handle:thumbsup:


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## betterdrywall

Chris ,, you can get a much longer reach with the handle of a banjo when doing your inside wall angles. very little switching around.


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