# Is fibafuse tape a game changer ?



## 2buckcanuck

Holy chit, the Kiwi's might of been right about something:blink:

Finally got to play with some today, and as my title suggest, is it a game changer.

2bjr won't shut up about it, he taped out a large garage with it today, then coated over the flats right away. He's in love with it already.

I'm taking a wait and see approach, will see how it dried tomorrow. I did pre-fill some of the flats with hotmud, and left 70% of the others not pre-filled, to see if there is a difference.

Why I use game changer 

I can see jobs that are small (7,000sq and under) you could tape and coat out the flats right away, and your angle tapes should dry faster also.

And speaking of angles, I was impressed how they looked:blink:


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> Holy chit, the Kiwi's might of been right about something:blink:
> 
> Finally got to play with some today, and as my title suggest, is it a game changer.
> 
> 2bjr won't shut up about it, he taped out a large garage with it today, then coated over the flats right away. He's in love with it already.
> 
> I'm taking a wait and see approach, will see how it dried tomorrow. I did pre-fill some of the flats with hotmud, and left 70% of the others not pre-filled, to see if there is a difference.
> 
> Why I use game changer
> 
> I can see jobs that are small (7,000sq and under) you could tape and coat out the flats right away, and your angle tapes should dry faster also.
> 
> And speaking of angles, I was impressed how they looked:blink:


im always a little nervous with new stuff 
i seen it in the stucco bussiness with new stuff what a mess
i thought the buts were cracking with that new tape
your saying you can tape with it trew the zook normal mud and coated same day
like using mesh tape with hot mud


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## 2buckcanuck

Newagestucco said:


> im always a little nervous with new stuff
> i seen it in the stucco bussiness with new stuff what a mess
> i thought the buts were cracking with that new tape
> your saying you can tape with it trew the zook normal mud and coated same day
> like using mesh tape with hot mud


YES, tape and coat same day:yes:

Credit goes to tim0282 for tape and coat in same day, when he said that on this site, that's when the tiny light bulb went off in my head:whistling2:
That's also why I pre-filled some joints, and didn't with some. We could tell at the end of the day the pre-filled ones were looking better. Plus the prefilled ones should dry faster also.

As for the cracks appearing in butts, That was moose boy having that problem,,,,,,,,,, need I say more:whistling2:


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> YES, tape and coat same day:yes:
> 
> Credit goes to tim0282 for tape and coat in same day, when he said that on this site, that's when the tiny light bulb went off in my head:whistling2:
> That's also why I pre-filled some joints, and didn't with some. We could tell at the end of the day the pre-filled ones were looking better. Plus the prefilled ones should dry faster also.
> 
> As for the cracks appearing in butts, That was moose boy having that problem,,,,,,,,,, need I say more:whistling2:


 
no lol


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## Newagestucco

i might start using it in the garages to see how it works good pace to test it 

garage are cold abit i find out if it cracks 

all tape and coat them same day and keep an i on over the next few months
i have 3 garages to tape next week will start the test lol


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> YES, tape and coat same day:yes:
> 
> Credit goes to tim0282 for tape and coat in same day, when he said that on this site, that's when the tiny light bulb went off in my head:whistling2:
> That's also why I pre-filled some joints, and didn't with some. We could tell at the end of the day the pre-filled ones were looking better. Plus the prefilled ones should dry faster also.
> 
> As for the cracks appearing in butts, That was moose boy having that problem,,,,,,,,,, need I say more:whistling2:


Hey hey!
I was one of the first local guys who started pushing FibaFuse allot.
I since found out what happened with those cracked butt joints. I had never paid attention but they were all on the same wall of the house. I just came to the conclusion that there was something wrong with that wall. Because the one butt joint would open and close. Almost like the wall itself was flexing. The one day, the butt joint was split open a quarter inch wide and I was like  Holy crap!!, but it was behind the cupboards anyways so I just left it, but then the next day, it was closed up tight again and you can barely even tell there was a crack at all, you had to look extremely close. 
So I don't believe it was a FibaFuse issue. It was the house. Structural problems.
I've never had any other problems with it on any of my other houses.
As soon as I first used it I immediately loved it.


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## cazna

A sheep shagger always tells the truth :yes: We said it was good chit, And it is. 

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-thoughts-views-1175/

Ive started using it on corners now as well, Flush, Sand, Anglehead :thumbsup: Sharp man, Sharp.


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## Newagestucco

cazna said:


> A sheep shagger always tells the truth :yes: We said it was good chit, And it is.
> 
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-thoughts-views-1175/
> 
> Ive started using it on corners now as well, Flush, Sand, Anglehead :thumbsup: Sharp man, Sharp.


like to ask u a few qwestion on it

how many houses would you say you tape with it now or sq ft
how many months is your weather always consistent year round
and why due you find it better then paper

thx


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> *Holy chit, the Kiwi's might of been right about something*:blink:

















I like the sound of that.....go on say it again, a bit louder this time so everyone can hear it 

To partly answer Newagestucco's question, I think I've been using it for maybe 2 years now? (rough guess), and I haven't seen any long term problems, I'm guessing I must have done dozens of new homes with it, one thing to remember is we have strict timber moisture regulations here so structural movement is at a minimum, it stood the test of earthquakes, one house I did was relocated and the board broke in several places but the joins were fine.
The only problem I can find with Fibafuse is the price.


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## Kiwiman

cazna said:


> A sheep shagger always tells the truth :yes: We said it was good chit, And it is.
> 
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-thoughts-views-1175/
> 
> Ive started using it on corners now as well, Flush, Sand, Anglehead :thumbsup: Sharp man, Sharp.


Actually Caz, I think you and me might have been the driving force behind getting Fibafuse into NZ were we not?


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## gazman

I got two rolls a while ago (cost over twenty dollars delivered) and have been using it on the Rebate Mate joints. The rebate is a bit deeper than the factory ones so you have move mud in them and they can take longer to dry. The Fuze seems to help them dry quicker, and even if they are not 100% dry you dont get the tram tracks that you get with paper.


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## A smooth finish

There is only one problem I am having using it. When Im wiping it down I tend to tear into the tape. Im sure its just me getting used to how to do it. But does anyone have any tips. Im tired of my mud getting full of little fiber cr*p. But other then that I love the stuff make repair Jobs go super fast.


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## SlimPickins

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hey hey!
> I was one of the first local guys who started pushing FibaFuse allot.
> I since found out what happened with those cracked butt joints. I had never paid attention but they were all on the same wall of the house. I just came to the conclusion that there was something wrong with that wall. Because the one butt joint would open and close. Almost like the wall itself was flexing. *The one day, the butt joint was split open a quarter inch wide and I was like  Holy crap!!, but it was behind the cupboards anyways so I just left it, but then the next day, it was closed up tight again and you can barely even tell there was a crack at all, you had to look extremely close.
> So I don't believe it was a FibaFuse issue. It was the house. Structural problems.*
> I've never had any other problems with it on any of my other houses.
> As soon as I first used it I immediately loved it.


I'm not one to say I told you so.....:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuckjr.

if the fibrefuse is ripping you left the tape on the wall wet for too long it tears... just a small inconvenience with the product but from what i can tell from giving this produst a 200% go, great product........ fantastic actually less resistance wiping flats, like 75% less push, and the rolling is a bit more effort if left too long it ventures to the side like all tape. but ive never seen a tape product slide and cover better.......excellent job guys A+++


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## Kiwiman

A smooth finish said:


> There is only one problem I am having using it. When Im wiping it down I tend to tear into the tape. Im sure its just me getting used to how to do it. But does anyone have any tips. Im tired of my mud getting full of little fiber cr*p. But other then that I love the stuff make repair Jobs go super fast.


Thin your mud down more, don't use too much pressure wiping over butts because it might cut through the tape, if you use a knife in the corners hold the knife at an angle so the point doesn't tear the tape.....real easy to do. The tapes designed to be used with thin runny mud so it blends/fuses through the tape.


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuckjr. said:


> if the fibrefuse is ripping you left the tape on the wall wet for too long it tears... just a small inconvenience with the product but from what i can tell from giving this produst a 200% go, great product........ fantastic actually less resistance wiping flats, like 75% less push, and the rolling is a bit more effort if left too long it ventures to the side like all tape. but ive never seen a tape product slide and cover better.......excellent job guys A+++


If you leave the tape on the wall too long and it's ripping then it might be from the tape getting dryer/thicker (just guessing).
Bloody shame you like it so much.......that was probably a free sample you tried, wait until they find out the price of it, over here it's double the price of papertape and there's half as much on a roll, so thats four times the price of paper


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## A smooth finish

http://www.walltools.com/fibafuse.html

http://www.walltools.com/products/d.../joint-tape/proroc-joint-tape-250ft-roll.html


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## mudslingr

gazman said:


> I got two rolls a while ago (cost over twenty dollars delivered)





A smooth finish said:


> When Im wiping it down I tend to tear into the tape.I'm tired of my mud getting full of little fiber cr*p.





2buckcanuckjr. said:


> if the fibrefuse is ripping you left the tape on the wall wet for too long it tears... just a small inconvenience





Kiwiman said:


> Thin your mud down more, don't use too much pressure wiping over butts because it might cut through the tape, if you use a knife in the corners hold the knife at an angle so the point doesn't tear the tape.....real easy to do.





Kiwiman said:


> wait until they find out the price of it, over here it's double the price of papertape and there's half as much on a roll, so thats four times the price of paper


Wow, what an endorsement ! I think I'll go buy some immediately !


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## saskataper

Thats sucks about the price down there Kiwi I pay $7 for a 500' roll here. As far as wiping it if you get a little to far ahead of yourself and the mud starts to set its no fun especially in the angles, but one room at a time is no problem. I wipe with an old Ames wipedown knife which is broke in real nice (see my vid) I find newer knives tear it easier. Also that knife bends a lot so when I wipe I push hard and get it to bend so its not on edge so much.


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## 2buckcanuck

Some pics of the fibafuse drying. This is in a garage, 12ft high. The temperature was a nice comfy Canadian fall day of 4 degrees Celsius. I pre-filled the bottom joint with hotmud, well the top joint I did not. There was a 220 electric heater in the garage, so since heat rises, the bottom joint is showing better results. It is drying faster, and there is less shrinkage too.:yes:

Single pass done with a NS 10" box, no trace or double pass done.

And yes our rockers use nails


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## SlimPickins

mudslingr said:


> Wow, what an endorsement ! I think I'll go buy some immediately !


:lol:

Here's an endorsement you _might _be able to get behind:

When a crack shows up, I fix it with FF (as well as some other secret voodoo magic).......and to date, they've never reappeared.

It's perfect for tub flanges, no paper to mildew up:thumbsup:

You can sand it:thumbsup:

Personally, I don't know that it's right for full scale production work, but it's amazing for patches and persnickety fiddle-f***ing.


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## 2buckcanuck

mudslingr said:


> Wow, what an endorsement ! I think I'll go buy some immediately !


Sir mudslingr, you half to think outside the box, and think what "SYSTEM" you can run with the product:yes:

I always say, we don't need more fancy tools, we need better materials. Fiba fuse lands middle ground of paper tape and that other stuff that starts with the letter "M". Unlike that "M" stuff, you can still install with the principles of paper, meaning bazooka, roller and mechanical angles heads using AP mud and not hotmud. Yet get a jump on your work like the "M" stuff, with a tape and a coat.

Now, if 2bjr and I were to do a house that is over 10,000 square feet or more in rock, I would use paper tape. Since odds would be, I would not be able to go back and coat everything, nor would I using paper......

But lets say I get a house that's between 5,000 to 10,000 square feet. I might lay FF on the flats, but paper on the angles. Then go back and coat all the flats in the same day. I get a jump on the job, and at what cost. The FF is about 5 bucks more SO FAR compared to paper, whats that going to cost me, 2 or 3 rolls (10 to 15 bucks).

Then if I get STUCK:furious: with some job that is 4,000 sq or under, it would be FF all the way, since the stuff will dry out faster, and I will cut one full day off from the job.

Even though we have only played in a garage so far with the product, I can see some of it's potential already. The one aspect that shocked me the the most, is how the angles look. Plus the more and more people use it, the cost will come down.

You just half to try it once Sir mudslingr, and you might go like this:blink:, b/c you will like it.


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## 2buckcanuckjr.

2 buck is solid..... the rockers do use nails and bang them hard like a good kiwi to an ugly sheep but aside form taking one for the team, 2buck didnt account for one thing, 240 amp not 220 dumba$$


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## 2buckcanuck

2buckcanuckjr. said:


> 2 buck is solid..... the rockers do use nails and bang them hard like a good kiwi to an ugly sheep but aside form taking one for the team, 2buck didnt account for one thing, 240 amp not 220 dumba$$


Your little friends will be waiting by the fence again tomorrow morning f*g, I will be taking pictures, to show all what you do to them.

And you owe me a coffee, since your wrong...... again..... you wannabe kiwi:whistling2: http://www.locationhewitt.ca/en/equipement-location/heating/electric_heater/


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## Kiwiman

You go jr, nothing wrong with wanting to be a Kiwi,You might want to bring a 240v heater tho.....240amp might melt the wires out on the street


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> You can sand it:thumbsup:


Thank you, thank you, thank you Slim, your post got me doing this today









Because of what you said, I went up to a flat done in FF tape, and began sanding away at it. To my surprise, you could keep sanding till there was no more fibafuse left:blink:

I thought weird and strange at the same time. Then 20 minutes later , I thought, what if you sand the [email protected] out of the angle tapes. This is what I got in the pics below.

The angles were done with a 2.5 DM angle head. I rough sanded(







) them with 100 grit with no foam backing. After sanding them a bit I was some what impressed, so I buffed it up a bit with a sponge sander.

I wonder if you used a tin flusher, and if you adjusted the runners to apply more mud on the install, would you get one coat angles:whistling2:
.
.
Last pic of what the FF tape looks like before sanding


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you Slim, your post got me doing this today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because of what you said, I went up to a flat done in FF tape, and began sanding away at it. To my surprise, you could keep sanding till there was no more fibafuse left
> 
> I thought weird and strange at the same time. Then 20 minutes later , I thought, what if you sand the [email protected] out of the angle tapes. This is what I got in the pics below.
> 
> The angles were done with a 2.5 DM angle head. I rough sanded() them with 100 grit with no foam backing. After sanding them a bit I was some what impressed, so I buffed it up a bit with a sponge sander.
> 
> I wonder if you used a tin flusher, and if you adjusted the runners to apply more mud on the install, would you get one coat angles:whistling2:
> .
> .
> Last pic of what the FF tape looks like before sanding


I like that I can wipe/coat it really tight, and unlike all of the alternatives a very *light *sanding will bring it to where it needs to be for a finish coat. And as we all know, less mud = flatter work:thumbsup: 

I like that you're a thinker Mr. 2Buck. 

I've been on a full house remodel lately, should keep me busy until February:thumbup: Reason I mention it, is that it's fun to bring the thinkering (<--yes, I make words up as it suits me) process to a different kind of work. Fibafuse is great, I like it with hot mud and glue:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> glue:yes:


that was my next idea:thumbup:

Joe from trim tex said adding glue changed the property of the mud. i was thinking maybe the mud would not shrink as much

Or maybe I can mix yeast and sugar in the mud:blink:...:whistling2:


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## thefinisher

2buckcanuck said:


> that was my next idea:thumbup:
> 
> Joe from trim tex said adding glue changed the property of the mud. i was thinking maybe the mud would not shrink as much
> 
> Or maybe I can mix yeast and sugar in the mud:blink:...:whistling2:


You are what you eat 2Buck... Now become a real finisher and start making mud cookies


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## moore

A Real ''finisher'' pays himself to finish his rock himself.:whistling2:


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> A Real ''finisher'' pays himself to finish his rock himself.:whistling2:


Sometimes you gotta work smarter Moore :thumbsup:. When you can't beat them, join them.


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## chris

thefinisher said:


> Sometimes you gotta work smarter Moore :thumbsup:. When you can't beat them, join them.


 Opinions vary. Nobody gonna replace me ( maybe my youngest boy) :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuckjr.

*oops!*

yeah sorry about that 2buck. i made a mistake. it is 220. my appologies...:yes:


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## SlimPickins

chris said:


> Opinions vary. Nobody gonna replace me ( maybe my youngest boy) :thumbsup:


I've been realizing lately that I must have nailed my niche...all my contractors know that I'm balls deep in a full remodel, and they still keep calling me for my specific line of drywall work. I could be making some killer money if I could clone myself :yes:


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuckjr. said:


> yeah sorry about that 2buck. i made a mistake. it is 220. my appologies...:yes:


But he's still a dumbass right?


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Sometimes you gotta work smarter Moore :thumbsup:. When you can't beat them, join them.


 I lost 2 homes to you this month so no I can't beat you They were both stupid home owners who think the only difference between one d/c and a nother is the price..No biggie! One h/o told me her bids after I gave her mine [why?] I said ..Yeah I know who they are...She said ..no you don't! There from out of town!...DUH!!!:blink:

Join you? I could. I have the numbers ..Spanish and Honduran..
I could take on twice the work sub it all out without lifting a finger
,,I won't! The home i'm on now my name got me the job not my price! Guys like yourself only make my name stronger.

If you think this last boom is gonna jump back in your lap..forget it!
we won't see another like that one for another 20 years or longer..
Fact is...when new construction picks back up to an even keel again ...You'll still be working for jack,,,And i'll still be getting paid what I'm worth!


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> Fact is...when new construction picks back up to an even keel again ...You'll still be working for jack,,,And i'll still be getting paid what I'm worth!


:thumbsup:


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## JustMe

thefinisher said:


> Sometimes you gotta work smarter Moore :thumbsup:. *When you can't beat them, join them*.


Didn't we have a discussion about believing in and following faulty reasoning - in this case reasoning that's based on a cliche - as though it's an absolute truth? :whistling2:

Sometimes joining in on what they're doing isn't the best way to work smarter. It could even be bad strategy.

If your own game isn't working, or working well anymore, you can look at changing the game to one that can work for you. Following the pack would (usually) be a last resort to me. Especially if that pack is a hungry, not well fed, one.

Not saying moore's strategy is the best strategy, business wise, either. But what can you say when it comes to a strategy that's based on someone Loving drywall(?)


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## moore

Whatever....We Will see in the long run!


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## JustMe

moore said:


> Whatever....We Will see in the long run!


My dad says he's been pretty much retired ever since he took up music seriously - teaching it, playing dances, conducting a bit, ....... . If you can earn a living doing what you Love doing......In the scheme of things, maybe not such a bad strategy.

My dad never did make any great money though, so from a Business sense, music wasn't maybe a best choice. Or a great one for his family. Money was always a little tight.

Now if he'd bit the bullet and gone on to get his degree in it, he could've taught at one of the universities. One was interested in him for that - if he'd had his degree.
That's a job he would've Really loved. And made great money, compared to what he was used to.

A shift in strategy - biting the bullet and working towards a music degree while he could've still taught nights and weekends for $ - would've been better in the end. His words.


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## moore

I hear what your saying ..Don't think I don't!!


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> I lost 2 homes to you this month so no I can't beat you They were both stupid home owners who think the only difference between one d/c and a nother is the price..No biggie! One h/o told me her bids after I gave her mine [why?] I said ..Yeah I know who they are...She said ..no you don't! There from out of town!...DUH!!!:blink:
> 
> Join you? I could. I have the numbers ..Spanish and Honduran..
> I could take on twice the work sub it all out without lifting a finger
> ,,I won't! The home i'm on now my name got me the job not my price! Guys like yourself only make my name stronger.
> 
> If you think this last boom is gonna jump back in your lap..forget it!
> we won't see another like that one for another 20 years or longer..
> Fact is...when new construction picks back up to an even keel again ...You'll still be working for jack,,,And i'll still be getting paid what I'm worth!


Just go to his jobs and drop off some of these books, once his guys learn to speak english , they will be gone:whistling2:


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## JustMe

moore said:


> I hear what your saying ..Don't think I don't!!


A saying that often comes to mind when I think about such things as to why my dad didn't do university (and why I haven't done some things, either): 'It is often easier to adjust yourself to the hardships of a poor living than it is to adjust yourself to the hardships of making a better one.'


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## moore

JustMe said:


> A saying that often comes to mind when I think about such things as to why my dad didn't do university (and why I haven't done some things, either): 'It is easier to adjust yourself to the hardships of a poor living than it is to adjust yourself to the hardships of making a better one.'


 Are you calling me poor white trash??? LOL!!!!!!


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## JustMe

moore said:


> Are you calling me poor white trash??? LOL!!!!!!


Does it fit? 

But you love your work. Hard to call someone 'poor' who has at least that going for them.

In some ways, that's my dad. His friends are either retired (to nothing much to do and bored) or are dead, while him and his music are still healthily/'wealthily' trucking along.


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## moore

JustMe said:


> Does it fit?
> 
> But you love your work. Hard to call someone 'poor' who has at least that going for them.
> 
> In some ways, that's my dad. His friends are either retired (to nothing much to do and bored) or are dead, while him and his music are still healthily/'wealthily' trucking along.


 To a T...Your a good soul Justme!


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## 2buckcanuck

2buckcanuck said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you Slim, your post got me doing this today
> 
> Because of what you said, I went up to a flat done in FF tape, and began sanding away at it. To my surprise, you could keep sanding till there was no more fibafuse left
> 
> I thought weird and strange at the same time. Then 20 minutes later , I thought, what if you sand the [email protected] out of the angle tapes. This is what I got in the pics below.
> 
> The angles were done with a 2.5 DM angle head. I rough sanded(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) them with 100 grit with no foam backing. After sanding them a bit I was some what impressed, so I buffed it up a bit with a sponge sander.
> 
> I wonder if you used a tin flusher, and if you adjusted the runners to apply more mud on the install, would you get one coat angles
> .
> .
> Last pic of what the FF tape looks like before sanding


How come no one is questioning my post







,saying bull chit 2buck, it can't be done









Do angles with FF, sand next day, no glazing or flushing:yes:

Moore's hijacked my thread


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> How come no one is questioning my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,saying bull chit 2buck, it can't be done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do angles with FF, sand next day, no glazing or flushing:yes:
> 
> Moore's hijacked my thread


your only flushing 1 time whern you run the tape thats it 
not in the house just in the garage


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> How come no one is questioning my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,saying bull chit 2buck, it can't be done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do angles with FF, sand next day, no glazing or flushing:yes:
> 
> Moore's hijacked my thread


 WELL.... to be honest FF sounds alot like mesh to me..


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## 2buckcanuck

Newagestucco said:


> your only flushing 1 time whern you run the tape thats it
> not in the house just in the garage


First time using the stuff

When we rough sanded to go corner flush, we were shocked how it ALMOST looked finished. So we buffed it up a bit with a sponge, and we were like.....holy:blink:

the Fibafuse it self can be sanded down to nothing. It's sorta like having a bag of chips, and being able to eat the bag also..... ( I was going to say edible under ware but, DWT don't like girls:whistling2

And speaking about flushing, did you hear what Stephen Colbert said about your town http://o.canada.com/2012/11/14/step...-at-windsor-ontario-calling-it-earths-rectum/


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> First time using the stuff
> 
> When we rough sanded to go corner flush, we were shocked how it ALMOST looked finished. So we buffed it up a bit with a sponge, and we were like.....holy:blink:
> 
> the Fibafuse it self can be sanded down to nothing. It's sorta like having a bag of chips, and being able to eat the bag also..... ( I was going to say edible under ware but, DWT don't like girls:whistling2
> 
> And speaking about flushing, did you hear what Stephen Colbert said about your town http://o.canada.com/2012/11/14/step...-at-windsor-ontario-calling-it-earths-rectum/


 yes i heard it he might be rite


----------



## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> How come no one is questioning my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,saying bull chit 2buck, it can't be done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do angles with FF, sand next day, no glazing or flushing


It can be done but your reputation might take a hit, sort of like only half shagging a sheep....you did the work but you didn't do a good job of it, and the only one left satisfied is you :whistling2:
I did it once in the blind side of a wardrobe where it would be hard to see....not what ewe think either :sneaky2: , I missed topcoating it and got lazy when I spotted it on sanding day. Technically you could get away with just finish sanding the tape coat but the extra sanding would be as much work as just giving it a 2nd coat I guess.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> It can be done but your reputation might take a hit, sort of like only half shagging a sheep....you did the work but you didn't do a good job of it, and the only one left satisfied is you :whistling2:
> I did it once in the blind side of a wardrobe where it would be hard to see....not what ewe think either :sneaky2: , I missed topcoating it and got lazy when I spotted it on sanding day. Technically you could get away with just finish sanding the tape coat but the extra sanding would be as much work as just giving it a 2nd coat I guess.


This pains me, but your probably right 
there would be too much effort in sanding.

We do have the angles flushed/glazed out now, and I think I'm more impressed with the stuff in the angles. The mud shrinks into the FF tape, so the mud sits tighter. the point/apex looks better than the paper tape, which dries rounded or hair line cracks, well the ff settles to a sharp point. Will half to see how it goes next week, when we get another house to try it on:yes:


----------



## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> This pains me, but *your probably right*


There it is again :thumbup:


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> I lost 2 homes to you this month so no I can't beat you They were both stupid home owners who think the only difference between one d/c and a nother is the price..No biggie! One h/o told me her bids after I gave her mine [why?] I said ..Yeah I know who they are...She said ..no you don't! There from out of town!...DUH!!!:blink:
> 
> Join you? I could. I have the numbers ..Spanish and Honduran..
> I could take on twice the work sub it all out without lifting a finger
> ,,I won't! The home i'm on now my name got me the job not my price! Guys like yourself only make my name stronger.
> 
> If you think this last boom is gonna jump back in your lap..forget it!
> we won't see another like that one for another 20 years or longer..
> Fact is...when new construction picks back up to an even keel again ...You'll still be working for jack,,,And i'll still be getting paid what I'm worth!


You didn't lose any houses to us lol. Just a different area is all. Around here there are no more (white/black/american) people finishing for the going rate ($4 a board or less). Our prices are actually higher and we pay our guys $4 a board or more when the big companies pay $3.50 so who is the bad guy? We also got all of our houses because of our reputation as a good company who turns out a very good product. We go beyond what is expected when it comes to servicing our jobs and our customers. Actually when business was good our prices were *A LOT* higher and we are already raising our prices slowly right now because business is getting better. So actually you will still be making the same and we will be making more money per house while doing much more work. We are in the business of making money and supporting our family. Honestly I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck as I'm sure none of you do which is why we chose the route we are currently on. I don't give a damn how good I can finish a house anymore because I have been there and so has my dad for 3 decades before that. Only thing that matters is taking care of your own and this is how we HAVE to do it. If your option was finish for $3.5-$5 or go without work because you ask too much, then what would you do? BTW you started this bullsh!t with your comment earlier. 


2Buck: Sorry Moore and I hijacked your thread. I personally go through about a roll of fibafuse a week on patches and such and I love it! Probably been through about 20+ rolls already and I won't use anything else for patches or small jobs. We won't use it on our houses because it isn't cost effective but I think it is one of the best products ever put out for finishing :thumbsup:


----------



## Muddauber

$4.00 a board ? I hope you're talking about 8' board!


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> You didn't lose any houses to us lol. Just a different area is all. Around here there are no more (white/black/american) people finishing for the going rate ($4 a board or less). Our prices are actually higher and we pay our guys $4 a board or more when the big companies pay $3.50 so who is the bad guy? We also got all of our houses because of our reputation as a good company who turns out a very good product. We go beyond what is expected when it comes to servicing our jobs and our customers. Actually when business was good our prices were *A LOT* higher and we are already raising our prices slowly right now because business is getting better. So actually you will still be making the same and we will be making more money per house while doing much more work. We are in the business of making money and supporting our family. Honestly I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck as I'm sure none of you do which is why we chose the route we are currently on. I don't give a damn how good I can finish a house anymore because I have been there and so has my dad for 3 decades before that. Only thing that matters is taking care of your own and this is how we HAVE to do it. If your option was finish for $3.5-$5 or go without work because you ask too much, then what would you do? BTW you started this bullsh!t with your comment earlier.
> 
> 
> 2Buck: Sorry Moore and I hijacked your thread. I personally go through about a roll of fibafuse a week on patches and such and I love it! Probably been through about 20+ rolls already and I won't use anything else for patches or small jobs. We won't use it on our houses because it isn't cost effective but I think it is one of the best products ever put out for finishing :thumbsup:


 How do you sleep at night?


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

thefinisher said:


> You didn't lose any houses to us lol. Just a different area is all. Around here there are no more (white/black/american) people finishing for the going rate ($4 a board or less). Our prices are actually higher and we pay our guys $4 a board or more when the big companies pay $3.50 so who is the bad guy? We also got all of our houses because of our reputation as a good company who turns out a very good product. We go beyond what is expected when it comes to servicing our jobs and our customers. Actually when business was good our prices were *A LOT* higher and we are already raising our prices slowly right now because business is getting better. So actually you will still be making the same and we will be making more money per house while doing much more work. We are in the business of making money and supporting our family. Honestly I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck as I'm sure none of you do which is why we chose the route we are currently on. I don't give a damn how good I can finish a house anymore because I have been there and so has my dad for 3 decades before that. Only thing that matters is taking care of your own and this is how we HAVE to do it. If your option was finish for $3.5-$5 or go without work because you ask too much, then what would you do? BTW you started this bullsh!t with your comment earlier.
> 
> 
> 2Buck: Sorry Moore and I hijacked your thread. I personally go through about a roll of fibafuse a week on patches and such and I love it! Probably been through about 20+ rolls already and I won't use anything else for patches or small jobs. We won't use it on our houses because it isn't cost effective but I think it is one of the best products ever put out for finishing


 
You got to kidding?????? 4 bucks/brds??????

:whistling2::wallbash::hang::stupid:


----------



## sdrdrywall

Come on guys give him a break he's being generous to his crews 4 bucks a sheet who could ask for more :jester:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

thefinisher said:


> I personally go through about a roll of fibafuse a week on patches


Maybe if you didn't charge 4$ a board you wouldn't have so many patches... :jester:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

thefinisher said:


> You didn't lose any houses to us lol. Just a different area is all. Around here there are no more (white/black/american) people finishing for the going rate ($4 a board or less). Our prices are actually higher and we pay our guys $4 a board or more when the big companies pay $3.50 so who is the bad guy? We also got all of our houses because of our reputation as a good company who turns out a very good product. We go beyond what is expected when it comes to servicing our jobs and our customers. Actually when business was good our prices were *A LOT* higher and we are already raising our prices slowly right now because business is getting better. So actually you will still be making the same and we will be making more money per house while doing much more work. We are in the business of making money and supporting our family. Honestly I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck as I'm sure none of you do which is why we chose the route we are currently on. I don't give a damn how good I can finish a house anymore because I have been there and so has my dad for 3 decades before that. Only thing that matters is taking care of your own and this is how we HAVE to do it. If your option was finish for $3.5-$5 or go without work because you ask too much, then what would you do? BTW you started this bullsh!t with your comment earlier.
> 
> 
> 2Buck: Sorry Moore and I hijacked your thread. I personally go through about a roll of fibafuse a week on patches and such and I love it! Probably been through about 20+ rolls already and I won't use anything else for patches or small jobs. We won't use it on our houses because it isn't cost effective but I think it is one of the best products ever put out for finishing :thumbsup:


Not that I would want to get involved with yours and Moores argument:whistling2: But are you sure you have your numbers right:blink:
In square foot talk, you guys are working for 6.5 to 8 cents a square. We use to make 11 cents 30 years ago. Funny thing is, I never use to live pay cheque to pay cheque back then, but now I do, and we make more than double that 11 cent mark now:thumbup:

But yes, The Fibafuse is best used for jobs 4,000 sq and under right now, it will knock a few days off a job. Anything bigger than that, more cost effective to stick with the paper tape. Hopefully, the price will keep coming down........ hint hint


----------



## Newagestucco

:whistling2:


2buckcanuck said:


> Not that I would want to get involved with yours and Moores argument:whistling2: But are you sure you have your numbers right:blink:
> In square foot talk, you guys are working for 6.5 to 8 cents a square. We use to make 11 cents 30 years ago. Funny thing is, I never use to live pay cheque to pay cheque back then, but now I do, and we make more than double that 11 cent mark now:thumbup:
> 
> But yes, The Fibafuse is best used for jobs 4,000 sq and under right now, it will knock a few days off a job. Anything bigger than that, more cost effective to stick with the paper tape. Hopefully, the price will keep coming down........ hint hint


2buck
when i work in florida 88/89/90 the going rate was $3 per sheet
and the only load the house with 12 footers 
the g/c like me so i got to sqeeze him for 3.25 per sheet
and i got the hangers to put up the beads lol
i was making 600/800 per week back them was real good for florida
but all the house were sprayed orange peel on the walls knockdown
on some ceilings and popcorn all the rest not much sanding:whistling2:


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> How do you sleep at night?


Like a rock. It is the way of life around here. When business goes up there will be more demand which equals higher prices.... pretty simple economics :thumbsup: Can't wait for it to pick up in 20 years :yes:


----------



## thefinisher

PrecisionTaping said:


> Maybe if you didn't charge 4$ a board you wouldn't have so many patches... :jester:


Lol, if our builders knew where they wanted their dang lights etc.... my job would be much easier :yes: Honestly though I couldn't ask for a better finish crew than the one we got going. They are very very good finishers and consistently turn out a great final product. Love pointing up after them.


----------



## thefinisher

2buckcanuck said:


> Not that I would want to get involved with yours and Moores argument:whistling2: But are you sure you have your numbers right:blink:
> In square foot talk, you guys are working for 6.5 to 8 cents a square. We use to make 11 cents 30 years ago. Funny thing is, I never use to live pay cheque to pay cheque back then, but now I do, and we make more than double that 11 cent mark now:thumbup:
> 
> But yes, The Fibafuse is best used for jobs 4,000 sq and under right now, it will knock a few days off a job. Anything bigger than that, more cost effective to stick with the paper tape. Hopefully, the price will keep coming down........ hint hint


Lol I am the one who does all of our numbers . We generally turn out a complete job from materials to point-up for around .58 cents . You have to realize that they don't get paid by the square foot, only by the board. I have seen our hangers hang over 500 sheets in 2.5 days. $2000+ in 2.5 days isn't bad


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## Mountain Man

Eight cents a foot to hang? No not bad at all, horrible actually!! Glad I'm in colorado!!


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> Lol I am the one who does all of our numbers . We generally turn out a complete job from materials to point-up for around .58 cents . You have to realize that they don't get paid by the square foot, only by the board. I have seen our hangers hang over 500 sheets in 2.5 days. $2000+ in 2.5 days isn't bad


 2000 IN 2.5 DAYS between 6 guys aint that big a pay day.:no:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

thefinisher said:


> Lol I am the one who does all of our numbers . We generally turn out a complete job from materials to point-up for around .58 cents . You have to realize that they don't get paid by the square foot, only by the board. I have seen our hangers hang over 500 sheets in 2.5 days. $2000+ in 2.5 days isn't bad


It don't matter if they get paid buy the square foot, it's all the same

one 12 foot sheet is 4x8 which is 48 sq ft
it takes 21 one 12 footers to make 1000 sq ft (1008 in case slim or justme read this:whistling2

Or every 100 sheets is around 5,000 sq ft, so your saying a 25,000 sq house in 2.5 days for 2 guys:blink:

Or if I do my math different, 500 12 footers times 48 (500x48) = 24,000 in 2.5 days:blink:

our rockers would of made 3 times that amount. No wonder why manufacturers up picking up and relocating to where you guys are. their replacing red china labour with red neck hill billy labour:blink:


----------



## saskataper

Yeah I would have kept my mouth shut on that one finisher, the rockers that I get for my jobs would have made about 9k off that.


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> It don't matter if they get paid buy the square foot, it's all the same
> 
> one 12 foot sheet is 4x8 which is 48 sq ft
> it takes 21 one 12 footers to make 1000 sq ft (1008 in case slim or justme read this:whistling2
> 
> Or every 100 sheets is around 5,000 sq ft, so your saying a 25,000 sq house in 2.5 days for 2 guys
> 
> Or if I do my math different, 500 12 footers times 48 (500x48) = 24,000 in 2.5 days:blink:
> 
> our rockers would of made 3 times that amount. No wonder why manufacturers up picking up and relocating to where you guys are. their replacing red china labour with red neck hill billy labour:blink:


Hey Hey Hey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I"m ******* hillbilly labor ,,,, so is Moore,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So don't act like either one of us would go for that deal,,,,


----------



## thefinisher

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Hey Hey Hey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I"m ******* hillbilly labor ,,,, so is Moore,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> So don't act like either one of us would go for that deal,,,,


I'm ******* as they come too. And Moore, that was only 4 guys working. And btw they started hanging a 640 board house for us yesterday and are expecting to be done saturday. So tuesday, today, friday, and probably a part day saturday. Max 4 days for 640 sheets. They are our most trusted crew of hangers and are very fast.


----------



## chris

Us Idaho ******** get 10 cents just to put on tape , say finisher you better hope your crew of hangers dont read because hangers out here start at .20 psf. Ill give them a trial job to try and we can go from there. All areas are different but it sounds like you are really proud of the numbers:blink:


----------



## sdrdrywall

thefinisher said:


> I'm ******* as they come too. And Moore, that was only 4 guys working. And btw they started hanging a 640 board house for us yesterday and are expecting to be done saturday. So tuesday, today, friday, and probably a part day saturday. Max 4 days for 640 sheets. They are our most trusted crew of hangers and are very fast.


That's not really anything impressive that's only 160 sheets per day


----------



## thefinisher

sdrdrywall said:


> That's not really anything impressive that's only 160 sheets per day


Just checked the job this morning and they only have 3 guys hanging the house and they still say they will be done on saturday. One guy is cutting and hanging on his own, one is just cutting and handing sheets to the crew leader on the stilts. IMO I think 160 sheets in a day is pretty good :yes:. The same crew has hung small 200 board houses in a day, but that is all easy 8' up and 9' down.


----------



## moore

sdrdrywall said:


> That's not really anything impressive that's only 160 sheets per day


 It gets better bro!! Only 3 hacks hanging 640 sheets in 4 days!!!!
The finisher[so called] has a camera..He posted a vid here before of a 15 board job...He had to sub the hanging out:whistling2:...
I would LOVE to see a vid of that 640 board 3 man hanging job!!I have a good quess of what type of home.
PLEASE...No vids of the finishing ...That would only scar me for life for I would have to pitch my tools into the James river..Don't get me wrong finisher I respect you as a brother drywaller ,,but At those ## I need to see the product! I'm no fool man...I've seen the work..It can't be any different here than it is there!! 
I almost got into a fuss with the hanger today over the board price...I paid him $1.50 a board more than he was asking..When I could have very well have talked him down .. :thumbsup:


----------



## SlimPickins

moore said:


> I almost got into a fuss with the hanger today over the board price...I paid him $1.50 a board more than he was asking..When I could have very well have talked him down .. :thumbsup:


Gee whiz moore....if the guy wants LESS money, I think you should do the right thing and give him what he wants.:yes:


----------



## moore

SlimPickins said:


> Gee whiz moore....if the guy wants LESS money, I think you should do the right thing and give him what he wants.:yes:


 I paid him the same as I have paid other hangers . :yes: They did a fine job and was there the day after it was loaded...208 sheets 2 men 3.5 days working 7-3 very neat hanging job NO nails! 

No worries Slim I will still make good in the end.:thumbsup:


----------



## SlimPickins

moore said:


> I paid him the same as I have paid other hangers . :yes: They did a fine job and was there the day after it was loaded...208 sheets 2 men 3.5 days working 7-3 very neat hanging job NO nails!
> 
> No worries Slim I will still make good in the end.:thumbsup:


As long as you're not throwing money away, I'll let it slide.....this time.

But seriously, you've just won some loyalty. When things are busy laughing: :whistling2, he won't put you off, it'll be the other guy that has to wait. There are a pile of other benefits too. He'll do better work for you, because you're willing to make it worth his while, etc. I appreciate your sense of ethical behavior.:thumbsup:


----------



## Newagestucco

i finaly got some fibafuse pick up 4 rolls
now i got to push my board men to start haging board on garages this week was hopping they would start on the week end so i could of use it monday lol im going to use it on the garages at first not in the houses


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> It gets better bro!! Only 3 hacks hanging 640 sheets in 4 days!!!!
> The finisher[so called] has a camera..He posted a vid here before of a 15 board job...He had to sub the hanging out:whistling2:...
> I would LOVE to see a vid of that 640 board 3 man hanging job!!I have a good quess of what type of home.
> PLEASE...No vids of the finishing ...That would only scar me for life for I would have to pitch my tools into the James river..Don't get me wrong finisher I respect you as a brother drywaller ,,but At those ## I need to see the product! I'm no fool man...I've seen the work..It can't be any different here than it is there!!
> I almost got into a fuss with the hanger today over the board price...I paid him $1.50 a board more than he was asking..When I could have very well have talked him down .. :thumbsup:


I did sub out a 15 board job but that is because we like to keep our guys as busy as possible. Believe we paid $200 to hang those boards and it took 2 guys an hour to hang. We pay very well on smaller jobs because we can afford to. We take care of our hangers and they always take care of us. We never have a problem getting them to hang even the smallest of jobs. Heck, we actually had them hang 4 boards for us the other day because the 640 board house wouldn't be stocked until the afternoon and they had nothing to do. And this is a very big custom build in an upscale island neighborhood. We hardly do anything other than custom houses. You probably would be scarred if you saw our finishers work...... but not in the way you are implying. Our finishers are very good finishers and have proven themselves to be so over and over again. It is really easy to determine how good a finisher is after prime and you run a 500 watt halogen at a low angle. I personally point-up every one of our houses, so I get to see how good our finishers are.


----------



## SlimPickins

thefinisher said:


> I did sub out a 15 board job but that is because we like to keep our guys as busy as possible. Believe we paid $200 to hang those boards and it took 2 guys an hour to hang. We pay very well on smaller jobs because we can afford to. We take care of our hangers and they always take care of us. We never have a problem getting them to hang even the smallest of jobs. Heck, we actually had them hang 4 boards for us the other day because the 640 board house wouldn't be stocked until the afternoon and they had nothing to do. And this is a very big custom build in an upscale island neighborhood. We hardly do anything other than custom houses. You probably would be scarred if you saw our finishers work...... but not in the way you are implying. Our finishers are very good finishers and have proven themselves to be so over and over again. It is really easy to determine how good a finisher is after prime and you run a 500 watt halogen at a low angle. I personally point-up every one of our houses, so I get to see how good our finishers are.


The company I used to work for used to do the same thing, the guys were divided into hangers and finishers. "Hey, can you guys run over and put up 6 sheets so I can get a taper in there tomorrow?" Sounds like you're running the same kind of crew that guy was...nothing wrong with that. Your rates sound low, but I don't live there (and fortunately don't have to try and compete at that wage) so I can't really jump in the conversation about whether it's too low or not.


----------



## thefinisher

SlimPickins said:


> The company I used to work for used to do the same thing, the guys were divided into hangers and finishers. "Hey, can you guys run over and put up 6 sheets so I can get a taper in there tomorrow?" Sounds like you're running the same kind of crew that guy was...nothing wrong with that. Your rates sound low, but I don't live there (and fortunately don't have to try and compete at that wage) so I can't really jump in the conversation about whether it's too low or not.


Our rate is low compared to the rest of the country I am sure, but we are bound by it in our area. Builders that you have done hundreds of houses for won't think twice to give the job to someone else if they low ball the job or if you increase your price.... I have seen it happen to us on different occasions. Now they usually will come back to us after not getting the service that we provide, but sometimes they don't care about that and are only interested in the bottom dollar. And we have always used separate crews for hanging, finishing, and sanding so every crew is solely responsible for their own work. It creates a better finished product when each crew is professional at a single task, very similar to an assembly line I suppose but it works very quickly and with great results. And Moore, our hangers only hung 620 boards in that big house not 640. We were a bit high on the count. Still only took 3 guys 3.5 days to get done  Finishers got there this morning so I'm assuming it will be skimmed by friday/saturday depending on if they get it all taped today.


----------



## gazman

. And we have always used separate crews for hanging, finishing, and sanding so every crew is solely responsible for their own work. It creates a better finished product when each crew is professional at a single task, very similar to an assembly line I suppose but it works very quickly and with great results. [/QUOTE]

I disagree, if someone is responsible for the whole job the care factor will increase.


----------



## thefinisher

gazman said:


> . And we have always used separate crews for hanging, finishing, and sanding so every crew is solely responsible for their own work. It creates a better finished product when each crew is professional at a single task, very similar to an assembly line I suppose but it works very quickly and with great results.


I disagree, if someone is responsible for the whole job the care factor will increase.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't seem to work for us unfortunately. Always seems that the problems that were there when hanging never gets fixed because they try to get it on the next step and then never get to it. I agree with you on much smaller jobs or on jobs where you have a lot of time to take your time, but we have to get it done as quick and professional as possible and it just works better for us to have separated parts of the job. The assembly line method works very well I'm guessing because each part of the trade becomes very proficient at the one task.


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> Our rate is low compared to the rest of the country I am sure, but we are bound by it in our area. Builders that you have done hundreds of houses for won't think twice to give the job to someone else if they low ball the job or if you increase your price.... I have seen it happen to us on different occasions. Now they usually will come back to us after not getting the service that we provide, but sometimes they don't care about that and are only interested in the bottom dollar. And we have always used separate crews for hanging, finishing, and sanding so every crew is solely responsible for their own work. It creates a better finished product when each crew is professional at a single task, very similar to an assembly line I suppose but it works very quickly and with great results. And Moore, our hangers only hung 620 boards in that big house not 640. We were a bit high on the count. Still only took 3 guys 3.5 days to get done  Finishers got there this morning so I'm assuming it will be skimmed by friday/saturday depending on if they get it all taped today.


 Could care less...You use Illegals ,,And you work for peanuts..
620 Boards 3 guys in 3.5 days is called butchery...!


----------



## boco

620 Boards 3 guys in 3.5 days is called butchery...![/QUOTE]
Maybe they were using 4 ft boards :whistling2:


----------



## SlimPickins

thefinisher said:


> Doesn't seem to work for us unfortunately. Always seems that the problems that were there when hanging never gets fixed because they try to get it on the next step and then never get to it. I agree with you on much smaller jobs or on jobs where you have a lot of time to take your time, but we have to get it done as quick and professional as possible and it just works better for us to have separated parts of the job. The assembly line method works very well I'm guessing because each part of the trade becomes very proficient at the one task.


I'm going to have to agree with Gazman on this one. I've been on both sides of the fence, and worked many different drywall scenarios (production crew like yours, commercial work, do-it-all crews, renovations, etc). The thing with start-to-finish guys is that they make all the money, and no money goes out to hire watchdogs/quality control/management. They're it. It's all on their shoulders. Subs can shift some of the responsibility onto their hiring agent (or more appropriately their employer.......comp-exemption is just overhead avoidance). One thing I've learned....if you want real quality, go with a self-contained outfit. Just because a production drywall company runs like a well oiled ship doesn't mean it can't hit an iceberg. (Yeah, I have no idea what my metaphor is supposed to mean)


----------



## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> . And we have always used separate crews for hanging, finishing, and sanding so every crew is solely responsible for their own work. It creates a better finished product when each crew is professional at a single task, very similar to an assembly line I suppose but it works very quickly and with great results.


I disagree, if someone is responsible for the whole job the care factor will increase.[/QUOTE]
I would disagree

Here in Ontario, In the major Urban areas at least, Odds are you will be working for a large drywall company. In those companies , they will hire steel studers, insulation installers, dry wallers, tapers, and spray guys for textured ceilings. They draw the line at painters, since they whine and cry a lot:whistling2:

There becomes a pecking order, where each trade keeps the other in check. With me for example, if I don't like a rock job, I can refuse to do it, demand more money to do it, or demand the rocker comes back to fix. Over the long haul, it can make for some really fast and good crews. Trust me, I'm spoiled with the dry wallers I get to work behind:thumbup:

Where us tapers get screwed, is were the last crew in, so we get blamed for everyone's transgressions. Suddenly every boo boo is our fault, since we work for that company. Plus we get 3 people who judge our work, the DWC, the builder, and those cry baby painters.

I find those that do it all, are the judge of their own work, or only have one person to please, a builder (GC) or a home owner. If I got to paint behind all my own work, I would be like"Looks sweet, no touch ups, pay me:thumbsup:"


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> I disagree, if someone is responsible for the whole job the care factor will increase.
> I would disagree
> 
> Here in Ontario, In the major Urban areas at least, Odds are you will be working for a large drywall company. In those companies , they will hire steel studers, insulation installers, dry wallers, tapers, and spray guys for textured ceilings. They draw the line at painters, since they whine and cry a lot:whistling2:
> 
> There becomes a pecking order, where each trade keeps the other in check. With me for example, if I don't like a rock job, I can refuse to do it, demand more money to do it, or demand the rocker comes back to fix. Over the long haul, it can make for some really fast and good crews. Trust me, I'm spoiled with the dry wallers I get to work behind
> 
> Where us tapers get screwed, is were the last crew in, so we get blamed for everyone's transgressions. Suddenly every boo boo is our fault, since we work for that company. Plus we get 3 people who judge our work, the DWC, the builder, and those cry baby painters.
> 
> I find those that do it all, are the judge of their own work, or only have one person to please, a builder (GC) or a home owner. If I got to paint behind all my own work, I would be like"Looks sweet, no touch ups, pay me"


Once again, you've proven that there are no absolutes. And also, now that I think about it....I know lots of do-it-all types who do a lousy job at all of their undertakings.

So, what I meant to say is: I'm awesome at all the stuff I do, and the guy I worked for who ran an assembly line crew never put out any good work because his guys were underpaid and didn't give a sheep about the work they were doing.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> So, what I meant to say is: I'm awesome at all the stuff I do, and the guy I worked for who ran an assembly line crew never put out any good work because his guys were underpaid and didn't give a sheep about the work they were doing.


You pay for what you get:whistling2:

Now if they were over paid and did chit work, we could debate:thumbup:


----------



## Mountain Man

I know when the hangers suck, I can hang it myself, how I want it. Then I can tape and coat it to perfection. Light sand for a spray texture, no sand for hand texture. Then ill prep it for paint which I know how to do because yes I've been a painter too. As a matter of fact I've built houses from the ground up. It is all a process with one trade setting up for the next. In all truth I prefer to be the lowly fall guy, the lowly finisher. I'm rambling now, goodnight all!!


----------



## thefinisher

2buckcanuck said:


> I disagree, if someone is responsible for the whole job the care factor will increase.


I would disagree

Here in Ontario, In the major Urban areas at least, Odds are you will be working for a large drywall company. In those companies , they will hire steel studers, insulation installers, dry wallers, tapers, and spray guys for textured ceilings. They draw the line at painters, since they whine and cry a lot:whistling2:

There becomes a pecking order, where each trade keeps the other in check. With me for example, if I don't like a rock job, I can refuse to do it, demand more money to do it, or demand the rocker comes back to fix. Over the long haul, it can make for some really fast and good crews. Trust me, I'm spoiled with the dry wallers I get to work behind:thumbup:

Where us tapers get screwed, is were the last crew in, so we get blamed for everyone's transgressions. Suddenly every boo boo is our fault, since we work for that company. Plus we get 3 people who judge our work, the DWC, the builder, and those cry baby painters.

I find those that do it all, are the judge of their own work, or only have one person to please, a builder (GC) or a home owner. If I got to paint behind all my own work, I would be like"Looks sweet, no touch ups, pay me:thumbsup:"[/QUOTE]

Exactly, when everyone is responsible for a small portion then it always seems that the quality is higher for that part of it. If our hangers mess something up our finishers always let us know.


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> Could care less...You use Illegals ,,And you work for peanuts..
> 620 Boards 3 guys in 3.5 days is called butchery...!


Our guys have a tax ID number just like you :thumbsup:. And that isn't butchery, it is production and they are a good hanging crew. We have a 10 day time frame from start to finish so we have to keep things rolling.


----------



## chris

thefinisher said:


> Our guys have a tax ID number just like you :thumbsup:. And that isn't butchery, it is production and they are a good hanging crew. We have a 10 day time frame from start to finish so we have to keep things rolling.


So all of your guys share the same tax id number:blink::thumbsup:


----------



## thefinisher

chris said:


> So all of your guys share the same tax id number:blink::thumbsup:


Lol, all of our subs have tax id numbers. We are not responsible for people that work for them. We only have to check the people we pay. You would be surprised how many are actually legal. Have had many of the same crews for almost a decade with no problems. Maybe we are just lucky to have the good immigrants.


----------



## moore

:yes:


thefinisher said:


> Lol, all of our subs have tax id numbers. We are not responsible for people that work for them. We only have to check the people we pay. You would be surprised how many are actually legal. Have had many of the same crews for almost a decade with no problems. Maybe we are just lucky to have the good immigrants.


 There ya go....You do use illegals..duh.
The lead hanger/Finishers are legal ,,but there brother-n-laws/cousins/nephews/etc... Are not. 

I just got off the phone with a hanger I havn't talked to in 2 years..He's looking for work ..Said he's been driving a concrete truck 
but thinking of getting back into the rock pile again...He checked around Richmond to see what the d/cs were paying...He was like RICK! DUDE!!!This one d/c said $4 a board tops.[commercial] another d/c said $2.75 a board!! 
I said 'Welcome to the war son':yes: 

It's a f/n shame [we] the drywall trade ..Have to deal with cutthroat d/cs that use illegals ..Line em up in front of a firen sqaud i say! :thumbup:


----------



## chris

There are a handful of crews out here that are cutthroats, that work for the lowball GCs. It seems one is always gettin sued and burning someone. Some guys like to eat off the floor. If by simply raising your price to suit your topshelf crew is dangerous then maybe your crew isnt so TOPSHELF. And no I dont think FFuse is a game changer


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> :yes:
> There ya go....You do use illegals..duh.
> The lead hanger/Finishers are legal ,,but there brother-n-laws/cousins/nephews/etc... Are not.
> 
> I just got off the phone with a hanger I havn't talked to in 2 years..He's looking for work ..Said he's been driving a concrete truck
> but thinking of getting back into the rock pile again...He checked around Richmond to see what the d/cs were paying...He was like RICK! DUDE!!!This one d/c said $4 a board tops.[commercial] another d/c said $2.75 a board!!
> I said 'Welcome to the war son':yes:
> 
> It's a f/n shame [we] the drywall trade ..Have to deal with cutthroat d/cs that use illegals ..Line em up in front of a firen sqaud i say! :thumbup:


I didn't say we use illegals, just that the only people we check is the ones who we pay. If we were made to check them all we would. Same principal as if you subbed for our company and had 3 or 4 white guys working for you. We would have to have your tax id number and info but not the rest of your crew members. Heck you could be using illegal immigrants from Canada..... because they are mexican means that they are illegal?


----------



## thefinisher

chris said:


> There are a handful of crews out here that are cutthroats, that work for the lowball GCs. It seems one is always gettin sued and burning someone. Some guys like to eat off the floor. If by simply raising your price to suit your topshelf crew is dangerous then maybe your crew isnt so TOPSHELF. And no I dont think FFuse is a game changer


Those gc's and dc's tend to not last very long in the end. Have seen several drywall companies kind of fall off the face of the earth in the past several years because of this. We pay more than the bigger company in our area and we always pay on time every time which is why I believe our subs to be so loyal to us thankfully. I really just think some of you just can't comprehend the dynamics of our market just as I wouldn't be up to speed in yours.


----------



## PrecisionTaping

thefinisher said:


> Heck you could be using illegal immigrants from Canada.....


:blink: Right....illegal immigrants from Canada....
I'll get right on that... I'll start packing my bags here and move down there where I have to pay for health care and make 1/16th of what I currently charge...
Here I come! :jester:
Ya friggen right!! Why the hell would I want to move up there?


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> Those gc's and dc's tend to not last very long in the end. Have seen several drywall companies kind of fall off the face of the earth in the past several years because of this. We pay more than the bigger company in our area and we always pay on time every time which is why I believe our subs to be so loyal to us thankfully. I really just think some of you just can't comprehend the dynamics of our market just as I wouldn't be up to speed in yours.


 Still here!:tt2:


----------



## thefinisher

PrecisionTaping said:


> :blink: Right....illegal immigrants from Canada....
> I'll get right on that... I'll start packing my bags here and move down there where I have to pay for health care and make 1/16th of what I currently charge...
> Here I come! :jester:
> Ya friggen right!! Why the hell would I want to move up there?


Technically you would move down lol. I was just making a comparison . At least you could get out of the snow :yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

chris said:


> And no I dont think FFuse is a game changer


have you tried it??



thefinisher said:


> I didn't say we use illegals, just that the only people we check is the ones who we pay. If we were made to check them all we would. Same principal as if you subbed for our company and had 3 or 4 white guys working for you. We would have to have your tax id number and info but not the rest of your crew members. Heck you could be using illegal immigrants from Canada..... because they are mexican means that they are illegal?


Who pays their workman's comp or insurance if they get hurt on the job. If your the one contracted out to do the job, and anyone gets hurt doing any said task your company is to do.

It's never the worker that sues, it's always someone from his or hers family,,,,,,,, most times:yes:



PrecisionTaping said:


> :blink: Right....illegal immigrants from Canada....
> I'll get right on that... I'll start packing my bags here and move down there where I have to pay for health care and make 1/16th of what I currently charge...
> Here I come! :jester:
> Ya friggen right!! Why the hell would I want to move up there?


Now I know why your a DWC, you half to move DOWN to the states, not up,,,, plus there's nothing north of Sudbury is there???:whistling2:

Health care is not free, get that left wing propaganda out of your head, unless you pay less taxes than me or something.

And 1/16 of the price:blink:, that's 64 cents to tape, or 30 bucks a sheep........ when do I start working for you,,,, You look after the boarding, 2bjr and I will tape them out for you


----------



## sdrdrywall

Im already packing my bags im heading back north.:thumbup:


----------



## SlimPickins

thefinisher said:


> Technically you would move down lol.


I think you're basing your assumption on the notion that there is an up/down associated with north and south.

We're on a giant ball hurtling through space, and there is no up or down. North and south are just frames of reference used for communication. Yes, I know it's standard practice, but we don't need to subscribe to popular vernacular here on drywall talk.....we're out-of-the-box thinkers.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> I think you're basing your assumption on the notion that there is an up/down associated with north and south.
> 
> We're on a giant ball hurtling through space, and there is no up or down. North and south are just frames of reference used for communication. Yes, I know it's standard practice, but we don't need to subscribe to popular vernacular here on drywall talk.....we're out-of-the-box thinkers.


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> West Wing - Why are we changing maps? - YouTube


:lol:

I remember watching that way back when! Thanks for the chuckle....and for assisting me in my assertion:thumbsup:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> And 1/16 of the price:blink:, that's 64 cents to tape, or 30 bucks a sheep........ when do I start working for you,,,, You look after the boarding, 2bjr and I will tape them out for you


I already offered you work remember?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> I already offered you work remember?


I want some time off

So how many feet of snow do you have right now, we have none.:whistling2:

2bjr keeps bugging to go up where you are, but thats a loooonnnnngggg drive.

maybe in the spring, just to show you how to rough sand.....maybe


----------



## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> I want some time off
> 
> So how many feet of snow do you have right now, we have none.:whistling2:
> 
> 2bjr keeps bugging to go up where you are, but thats a loooonnnnngggg drive.
> 
> maybe in the spring, just to show you how to rough sand.....maybe


Ya, we just finished a big house on the weekend, so I'm taking this week a little easy. Big day tomorrow.
We're working on another shack but there's not a huge rush so we're taking our time. Getting a little time off. :thumbsup:
I'm trying to do things just myself and one guy. See how that works out. I'm tired of stressing. 
I saw a YouTube video a few days ago that got me thinking...





And we've got a little. Not much. A couple inches. But it looks like it's here to stay now.


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## saskataper

Damn only a couple inches, we've been hit by a couple storms already including one before Halloween that dumped 6" or more. Plus it's been stupid cold lately, broke -30 with the wind on sat.


----------



## gazman

2buckcanuck said:


> have you tried it??


Just ordered 5 more rolls.:yes:


----------



## gazman

SlimPickins said:


> I think you're basing your assumption on the notion that there is an up/down associated with north and south.
> 
> We're on a giant ball hurtling through space, and there is no up or down. North and south are just frames of reference used for communication. Yes, I know it's standard practice, but we don't need to subscribe to popular vernacular here on drywall talk.....we're out-of-the-box thinkers.



Now I am going to have an identity crisis. We keep getting told that we are down under, and now .


----------



## gazman

saskataper said:


> Damn only a couple inches, we've been hit by a couple storms already including one before Halloween that dumped 6" or more. Plus it's been stupid cold lately, broke -30 with the wind on sat.



We got 39 Deg c here today, down to 24 c overnight. Same tomorrow:yes:.


----------



## icerock drywall

it changed me...no more hot mud unless its a small job. I like fibafuse but on my butts i still mesh it under the fibafuse:thumbsup:


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> Why I use game changer
> 
> I can see jobs that are small (7,000sq and under) you could tape and coat out the flats right away, and your angle tapes should dry faster also.



Don't know about calling FibaFuse a 'game changer', but it does give some useful options, especially when under the gun.

Example: A larger commercial job a little out of town wanted me on Thursday to have a small wall ready so it could be painted Friday, before duct work was run up along some sections of it. It was in an open to the ceiling utility room, so there was more than the usual board cuts to tape and coat higher up as well, around pipes, electrical, metal beams.

No fan or hot mud available. I taped it with Fiba in late morning, 1st coated it about an hour later, and 2nd coated it 2-3 hours after that, using only AP. There was also a decent blowout around the light switch on the wall, that I filled with AP and taped with FF. 
Next morning, a bit of fast enough drying AP in a couple spots where it had sunk back into the bevels more than I could sand totally out, and it was ready.

It sanded out fine - not any worse than if I'd done it over a 2 or 3 day period.
But I did use a light shot along the wall to help with the coating.

So one day taping and coating, using regular AP and no fan or any heat beyond normal, is possible with FibaFuse.


----------



## Kiwiman

I had a small problem recently and although the tape came unstuck I'm fairly certain it wasn't a Fibafuse problem - New house, paint was 2 - 3 weeks old (sprayed on), 5 light holes in the wrong place, 2 coats 20 minute Tradeset, one coat sheetrock midweight (all at once), 3 of the patches lost bond when it was repainted.... including the tape, it's never happened before using the same method, the only variable here is the paint was sprayed on, not sure if it was back rolled tho.


----------



## JustMe

Kiwiman said:


> I had a small problem recently and although the tape came unstuck I'm fairly certain it wasn't a Fibafuse problem


The mud does the sticking, so can't see how it would be FibaFuse as the problem.


----------



## icerock drywall

JustMe said:


> The mud does the sticking, so can't see how it would be FibaFuse as the problem.


true that


----------



## carpentaper

kiwi thats what our set muds do if you don't add glue. not all the time but often enough to be a problem. i've had whole patches delaminate.


----------



## RenoRob

Picked up 5 rolls last week. I've been using it on some patches and it works awesome. I'll give a room a try next week, see how the banjo likes it.



SlimPickins said:


> I think you're basing your assumption on the notion that there is an up/down associated with north and south.
> 
> We're on a giant ball hurtling through space, and there is no up or down. North and south are just frames of reference used for communication. Yes, I know it's standard practice, but we don't need to subscribe to popular vernacular here on drywall talk.....we're out-of-the-box thinkers.


Sounds like you're one step away from a discussion on General Relativity.


----------



## SlimPickins

RenoRob said:


> Sounds like you're one step away from a discussion on General Relativity.


Let's do it!

I've been prepping my boys for the concept.....somehow, at 8 and 4 years of age, I don't think they're totally ready :laughing:


----------



## RenoRob

Ya, the Tensor Calculus might trip them up.


----------



## thefinisher

RenoRob said:


> Picked up 5 rolls last week. I've been using it on some patches and it works awesome. I'll give a room a try next week, see how the banjo likes it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're one step away from a discussion on General Relativity.


Also interested in how it runs out of the banjo. I'm guessing you can go much farther on a fill than with paper tape? Can run the gate on the tightest setting as the FF doesn't blister and only needs to really stick to the wall until you bed it.


----------



## JustMe

thefinisher said:


> Also interested in how it runs out of the banjo. I'm guessing you can go much farther on a fill than with paper tape? Can run the gate on the tightest setting as the FF doesn't blister and only needs to really stick to the wall until you bed it.


I've tried it out of a banjo. It works. Just thin your mud down enough so it's not putting too much stress on the FF's fibers and tearing things.


----------



## carpentaper

its really good out of the banjo. but like justme said its really easy to tear the tape if the mud is too thick or the banjo to full. then your f'ing about trying to get the tape back out of the banjo and all. i use fibafuse for weird little patches often but prefer paper through the banjo.


----------



## icerock drywall

carpentaper said:


> its really good out of the banjo. but like justme said its really easy to tear the tape if the mud is too thick or the banjo to full. then your f'ing about trying to get the tape back out of the banjo and all. i use fibafuse for weird little patches often but prefer paper through the banjo.


 I made a tip for my bango that pulls the fibafuse out


----------



## gazman

Runs through the homax really nice.


----------



## SlimPickins

RenoRob said:


> Ya, the Tensor Calculus might trip them up.


Probably trip me up too....it's been a while since I worked my brain around some high level mathematics....


----------



## DLSdrywall

Is it hard to rip it with your hands? or is it like paper?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

DLSdrywall said:


> Is it hard to rip it with your hands? or is it like paper?


It's as easy to rip as paper, but it wont rip as even. Your better off to hold with knife ,then pull and tear, keeps it more even:yes:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

DLSdrywall said:


> Is it hard to rip it with your hands? or is it like paper?


PM me your info Dan. I'll send you a couple rolls.


----------



## Newagestucco

tried the fibafuse on garages , dump 4 rolls in one day trying it out
ran it threw the zook work real good and easy to wipe 
was getting some eratation a bit from the ff on the one hand wear the tape would run across my hands after about the 3 rd roll not a big deal 
it flush real easy and nice 
im doing a test with it on all my garages, will use ff on them for next 6 months 
and go inspect them in the summer to see how they held up
I will not be using it in any homes until it passes the 6/8 month garage trial


----------



## Kiwiman

Newagestucco said:


> tried the fibafuse on garages , dump 4 rolls in one day trying it out
> ran it threw the zook work real good and easy to wipe
> was getting some eratation a bit from the ff on the one hand wear the tape would run across my hands after about the 3 rd roll not a big deal
> it flush real easy and nice
> im doing a test with it on all my garages, will use ff on them for next 6 months
> and go inspect them in the summer to see how they held up
> I will not be using it in any homes until it passes the 6/8 month garage trial


You'll be fine, like I've said before, I've been using it for a couple of years and aren't having any problems, the only difference there would be is we use different muds here.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> You'll be fine, like I've said before, I've been using it for a couple of years and aren't having any problems, the only difference there would be is we use different muds here.


You just half to trust the kiwi's Newagestucco, any nation of people that admits to shagging sheep, will not lie about fibafuse tape cracking:thumbsup:
But keep us updated anyhow, I mentioned to our DWC today, that there was a certain Drywall talk member (YOU). Was testing it in some of our Winter abused garages, and was going to go back and check on it a few months later. He said to me"keep him posted":yes:

But our DWC does seem to be impressed with it so far, guess he had a few patches to do, he liked it:yes:


----------



## A smooth finish

PrecisionTaping said:


> PM me your info Dan. I'll send you a couple rolls.


What do I have to do to get free stuff. :whistling2:


----------



## boco

Are you guys doing the fiba fuse on butts too? I have done 2 jobs with fiba fuse so far but had to go back and fix the butts. They cracked. I didnt prefill just mudded thm on like paper tape. Also had a bad batch of usg light weight. It was ugly i thought it was from factory but it tiger stripped due to being left outside in the snow . I gave up on ff but only learned that the rock was left outside recently. anyways i have some 54 " rock that i want to use boxes and the fuse on. I have a new guy so it will be good for him to learn without all the outlets in the way. I have a few rolls laying around but noone is stocking it here.


----------



## PrecisionTaping

A smooth finish said:


> What do I have to do to get free stuff. :whistling2:


Have you never tried FibaFuse?
PM me your info too. :thumbsup:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

boco said:


> Are you guys doing the fiba fuse on butts too? I have done 2 jobs with fiba fuse so far but had to go back and fix the butts. They cracked. I didnt prefill just mudded thm on like paper tape. Also had a bad batch of usg light weight. It was ugly i thought it was from factory but it tiger stripped due to being left outside in the snow . I gave up on ff but only learned that the rock was left outside recently. anyways i have some 54 " rock that i want to use boxes and the fuse on. I have a new guy so it will be good for him to learn without all the outlets in the way. I have a few rolls laying around but noone is stocking it here.


I've been using it for everything for my last 6-7 houses.
Butts, flats, corners. Everything.

I always seem to have one or two cracked butt joints. Out of the 6 or so houses, 3 of them turned out great, and the other 3 I had to fix at least one or two butt joints. Haven't had more than 2 butt joints crack.
But it seems to be trouble butt joints. Like if they're sitting high or are in a bad spot. So for my 7th house I just ran double tapes on a few butt joints which I thought might give me issues and I've had no problems.
It's pretty sweet actually, even running a double tape with FF is pretty tight. Almost the same as paper. :thumbsup:

But I'm really starting to like working with it! :yes:


----------



## Newagestucco

keep hearing cracking butts joints not good


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Newagestucco said:


> keep hearing cracking butts joints not good


Ya, well it's definitely different from paper tape. Takes a little getting used too. I also don't V out my butt joints often however. I only do if it absolutely needs it. For the most part, we hang all of our jobs so out butts our usually pretty good. But I think with FF V-ing your joints is a little more necessary compared to paper. I don't know. It's a little too early for me to tell. But I know I like it. So much that I'm willing to fix the odd cracked butt joint.


----------



## Kiwiman

You definitely need a big enough gap in your butts to get mud into, otherwise it would be like putting a band aid on it with nothing to bond the sheets together, if there was never any movement over the coming years then it wouldn't matter I suppose. I always V the butts if there's not much of a gap, and make sure there's not too much dust left in the gap from cutting.


----------



## Stopper

A smooth finish said:


> There is only one problem I am having using it. When Im wiping it down I tend to tear into the tape. Im sure its just me getting used to how to do it. But does anyone have any tips. Im tired of my mud getting full of little fiber cr*p. But other then that I love the stuff make repair Jobs go super fast.


Don't wipe it with a dry knife, make sure there's a little mud on ya knife to lubricate it , keep your knife at a low angle and press as hard as you like and it wont tear. in fact its almost impossible to tear or rip up if you do this, your knife will likely break first


----------



## bmitch

carpentaper said:


> kiwi thats what our set muds do if you don't add glue. not all the time but often enough to be a problem. i've had whole patches delaminate.


 just wanted to thank you for this ,i.ve been having issues with the pro rock 90 letting go,i did a ceiling ring,half the ring let go from the surface but stayed up hanging there as a solid unit.i had a similar problem with a sculpted piece,i've never considered adding glue to the powder,but i'll give it a go,still have two rings to build.


----------



## SlimPickins

b said:


> just wanted to thank you for this ,i.ve been having issues with the pro rock 90 letting go,i did a ceiling ring,half the ring let go from the surface but stayed up hanging there as a solid unit.i had a similar problem with a sculpted piece,i've never considered adding glue to the powder,but i'll give it a go,still have two rings to build.


You'll be very happy with the added glue Bernie. I've found that it also means that you have more working time with the set muds. It tales a little longer to kick...........but once it's dry (not set, but DRY) it's amazingly strong.


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## carpentaper

you'll have to find the right amount. too much can make the mud bubble and pock more. i use weldbond but any white carpenter glue will work. i like to thin the glue down with about 60% water in a separate container so when i add the glue to the mix water it dilutes easily. i would say i add maybe one part glue to 10 or 20 parts water. so about 5% usually does it. if i'm fixing a crack i will go more like 30% glue. dries hard as plastic. if you try to add straight glue to your water when mixing the glue wont mix.


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## bmitch

i mixed up a concoction yesterday .ap mud,mud max,water,90.got another ring on.i'll go back this morning and get finish coat of mud on it then get base coat on for the next one.i'm alot more confident with bond having added the glue and the ap. the profile of this ring is 1 1/4" thick x 3" wide,4' around.thanks for the tips on using the glue.


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## icerock drywall

Newagestucco said:


> tried the fibafuse on garages , dump 4 rolls in one day trying it out
> ran it threw the zook work real good and easy to wipe
> was getting some eratation a bit from the ff on the one hand wear the tape would run across my hands after about the 3 rd roll not a big deal
> it flush real easy and nice
> im doing a test with it on all my garages, will use ff on them for next 6 months
> and go inspect them in the summer to see how they held up
> I will not be using it in any homes until it passes the 6/8 month garage trial


dose paper pass that test. I have fixed alot of jobs that the paper is falling off in the garage...:whistling2:


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## gazman

No doubt about this site, it makes you re-think your methods. I have been using the Zooka for a couple of months for my internals. So today I ran Fuse through the Zooka for the first time. 
So far I like it:thumbsup:. I guess how they look tomorrow when they are dried will be the test.
The system. Ran the Zook with fuse, rolled with my Columbia roller, flushed with the 3" Tape-Pro tin head.
Here are some pics.


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## cazna

I did this as well on my last job, Same way, Then a swipe with the speares corner sander to clean it out, Then a mudrun with several angleheads for a play, All went well, very well, I do have one concern though, If you sand out to much of the corner fuse then there isnt much left is there and thats a crack.

I did a fuse patch up on some painted walls a few weeks back, And Went to sand and i sanded it gone so did it again, There isnt any indication on when to back off sanding with fuse, Unlike paper, But, Im still liking the fuse for other benifits.


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## gazman

What angle heads did you try? Which one worked best?


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## cazna

gazman said:


> What angle heads did you try? Which one worked best?


Now thats a big question.

DM bonehead 3.5 thats actually a 3, Yeah nah?? Bit edge heavy for me due to it only being a 3 so it floated and poked a bit as well.

Tapeworm 4, Great head, runs nice, But does load a bit, Little slow to run but gets there.

Goldblatts 4, Very tight compared to the tapeworm 4, Nice flat sharp corner, Very even. Huge head, Top blades are same as side blades.

Goldblatts 3.5 thats really more like a 3.75, Nice head, Makes a very nice corner, Little faster to run than a 4 as its smaller but more even and nicer edges than DMs 3.5 thats really a 3. I like this head, Its a very good size, great all rounder, Does everything well.

For all you goldblatt haters, Fair enough, Your call, You may get one of there heads and its no good, But i have the 2, 3.5 and the 4, All just need blades worn in, (Wet and dry sandpaper rub) And they run very well.


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## gazman

Well after tomorrow we can add the 3.5" Northstar to the mix.


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## cazna

gazman said:


> Well after tomorrow we can add the 3.5" Northstar to the mix.


So howd ya go??


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## gazman

Looks good.:thumbup:
If someone can tell me how to upload a pic from my phone using the dwt app I will show you.:yes:


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## cazna

gazman said:


> Looks good.:thumbup:
> If someone can tell me how to upload a pic from my phone using the dwt app I will show you.:yes:


Dam you :whistling2: I bet your northstar 3.5 is the same as my dm 3.5, It just dosent seem to work out to well for me, But i am over fussy, And a painter so i see finished painted corners and the bigger the head, the less you see and feel, For me anyway, Wish i could get a 3.5 finish i was happy with, They are dam fast on a runner compared to a 4.


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## icerock drywall

gazman said:


> No doubt about this site, it makes you re-think your methods. I have been using the Zooka for a couple of months for my internals. So today I ran Fuse through the Zooka for the first time.
> So far I like it:thumbsup:. I guess how they look tomorrow when they are dried will be the test.
> The system. Ran the Zook with fuse, rolled with my Columbia roller, flushed with the 3" Tape-Pro tin head.
> Here are some pics.


 THAT LOOKS LIKE YOUR ROCKEN GOOD:thumbup:


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## jcampbell

gazman said:


> No doubt about this site, it makes you re-think your methods. I have been using the Zooka for a couple of months for my internals. So today I ran Fuse through the Zooka for the first time.
> So far I like it:thumbsup:. I guess how they look tomorrow when they are dried will be the test.
> The system. Ran the Zook with fuse, rolled with my Columbia roller, flushed with the 3" Tape-Pro tin head.
> Here are some pics.


That looks sweet. I just ordered the blueline 3". Hope I can make it work for me as we'll as you make it look! Good job


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## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> Looks good.:thumbup:
> If someone can tell me how to upload a pic from my phone using the dwt app I will show you.:yes:


Cant you just click add attachment:blink:

For the wee bit I have played with the fuse, I was liking it for the angles better, especially with the tin angle heads. The mud shrinks back into the fuse, leaving a nicer point.

Paper tape I go 2.5 DM ,then a 3.5 tin head. Think next time playing with the fuse, I will go 3.5 tin, then the 2.5. Tin heads are more easier to operate when installing tape, but the point they leave behind is their down fall, so problem solved with the fuse.

Plus the zook is so much more lighter using fiba fuse, and easier to install tape, less drag and concentration. So much so,,,, that I would recommend anyone trying to learn the zook, to start with fiba fuse:yes:


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Plus the zook is so much more lighter using fiba fuse, and easier to install tape, less drag and concentration. So much so,,,, that I would recommend anyone trying to learn the zook, to start with fiba fuse:yes:


One word of caution when taping overhead, don't leave a tab hanging, it will peel off faster than you can run to the other end :yes:


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## gazman

cazna said:


> So howd ya go??


Here are some pics of the same corner after the 3.5" Northstar.


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## saskataper

2buckcanuck said:


> Cant you just click add attachment:blink:
> 
> For the wee bit I have played with the fuse, I was liking it for the angles better, especially with the tin angle heads. The mud shrinks back into the fuse, leaving a nicer point.
> 
> Paper tape I go 2.5 DM ,then a 3.5 tin head. Think next time playing with the fuse, I will go 3.5 tin, then the 2.5. Tin heads are more easier to operate when installing tape, but the point they leave behind is their down fall, so problem solved with the fuse.
> 
> Plus the zook is so much more lighter using fiba fuse, and easier to install tape, less drag and concentration. So much so,,,, that I would recommend anyone trying to learn the zook, to start with fiba fuse:yes:


Yeah I taught myself the zook using FibaFuse and I've tried using paper in the angles a couple times and the Fuse is much easier.
As far as heads I was taught using a 3.5 tin then a 4" tin which is way to much work in my opinion, you have to push like a bastard to get it to flush out. Now I use a 3" columbia then 2.5" north star.


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## thefinisher

gazman said:


> Here are some pics of the same corner after the 3.5" Northstar.


That is a good looking angle there gazman. I wish I could talk the boss man into gluing the fields..... looks so much better and no screw pops!


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## Capt-sheetrock

gazman said:


> Here are some pics of the same corner after the 3.5" Northstar.


looks nice Gaz !!!!!


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## Muddauber

thefinisher said:


> That is a good looking angle there gazman. I wish I could talk the boss man into gluing the fields..... looks so much better and no screw pops!


 
I was under the impression that YOU were the boss man.


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## moore

Muddauber said:


> I was under the impression that YOU were the boss man.


 DUDE!!! He's 24 !!! He don't do houses no more! 
He's retired from physical labor :whistling2: 


I called my favorite hanger today [D/C] I begged him to hang 270 boards for me ..He said sorry ..booked! I told him what I had going on ..he laughed and told me to buy a box of cigars and a case of beer .Sub it all out to the Mexicans,,and go home and chill!!!!


I told him...KISS MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

saskataper said:


> Yeah I taught myself the zook using FibaFuse and I've tried using paper in the angles a couple times and the Fuse is much easier.
> As far as heads I was taught using a 3.5 tin then a 4" tin which is way to much work in my opinion, you have to push like a bastard to get it to flush out. Now I use a 3" columbia then 2.5" north star.


Do you still have the 3.5 tin head.

Maybe you can run a 3.5 tin head, and then your 2.5 NS in a closet or something , on one of your next jobs. Then let me know how it went and looked. It will save me the time of experimenting:thumbup::whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> DUDE!!! He's 24 !!! He don't do houses no more!
> He's retired from physical labor :whistling2:
> 
> 
> I called my favorite hanger today [D/C] I begged him to hang 270 boards for me ..He said sorry ..booked! I told him what I had going on ..he laughed and told me to buy a box of cigars and a case of beer .Sub it all out to the Mexicans,,and go home and chill!!!!
> 
> 
> I told him...KISS MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!


When do you need them hung? You could fly me down and I'd help you throw them up.


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## thefinisher

Muddauber said:


> I was under the impression that YOU were the boss man.


Not technically. I run a lot of things, but the final decision isn't mine to make. I did talk him into using paperfaced bead over metal recently. Now I want to stock mudset as it is cheaper than paperface bead and has a better corner. My dad is just set in his ways, but I am breaking him of it :yes:


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> DUDE!!! He's 24 !!! He don't do houses no more!
> He's retired from physical labor :whistling2:
> 
> 
> I called my favorite hanger today [D/C] I begged him to hang 270 boards for me ..He said sorry ..booked! I told him what I had going on ..he laughed and told me to buy a box of cigars and a case of beer .Sub it all out to the Mexicans,,and go home and chill!!!!
> 
> 
> I told him...KISS MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!


I'm actually 23.... And nope, I don't finish out our houses anymore but that doesn't mean I can't. I wish I was retired from physical labor, then I could get back to working out again.... gaining too much weight since college. I work over 12 hrs a day usually so I don't have that much time for other things.


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## moore

SlimPickins said:


> When do you need them hung? You could fly me down and I'd help you throw them up.


 I can't help ya!! Got 2 specs side by side... But Its yours Slim If you want it.:yes: If ya can hold the job up [Dentist office] for 2 weeks I would be most grateful !!!LOL!!!! when you walk out of the that one you can hang a 160 board art studio.. 
Xmas eve I start the 2nd phase on the bridal store ,,,,,Ya ever come back to Virginia Slim You got work! I promise ya that!:yes:


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## walltools

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hey hey!
> I was one of the first local guys who started pushing FibaFuse allot.
> I since found out what happened with those cracked butt joints. I had never paid attention but they were all on the same wall of the house. I just came to the conclusion that there was something wrong with that wall. Because the one butt joint would open and close. Almost like the wall itself was flexing. The one day, the butt joint was split open a quarter inch wide and I was like  Holy crap!!, but it was behind the cupboards anyways so I just left it, but then the next day, it was closed up tight again and you can barely even tell there was a crack at all, you had to look extremely close.
> So I don't believe it was a FibaFuse issue. It was the house. Structural problems.
> I've never had any other problems with it on any of my other houses.
> As soon as I first used it I immediately loved it.



Just remember who went to print with it as a new "break out" product almost three years ago... *Wall Tools*.


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## walltools

gazman said:


> Here are some pics of the same corner after the 3.5" Northstar.


I love your profile pic. My favorite under dog of all time. Perfect corner by the way too!


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## saskataper

I went around a house I taped in the spring looking for cracks and I did find a couple. The first ones around the pony wall and window are the worst by far, there is a small joint between the wall and window but I'm sure it would have cracked no matter what was done there and the one above is a crack in the board itself so it shows how much the house has settled. I also found short cracks in a couple of the angles on the front and back corners of the house. I figure that's pretty good in a house with around 7500ft of board.


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## 2buckcanuck

saskataper said:


> I went around a house I taped in the spring looking for cracks and I did find a couple. The first ones around the pony wall and window are the worst by far, there is a small joint between the wall and window but I'm sure it would have cracked no matter what was done there and the one above is a crack in the board itself so it shows how much the house has settled. I also found short cracks in a couple of the angles on the front and back corners of the house. I figure that's pretty good in a house with around 7500ft of board.


Sounds good:thumbup:

But that's par for the coarse with the window, you will get a 50 50 chance of something going wrong, especially the lintel/bottom. probably just like you, you warn them to go with wood or marble on the bottom, not corner bead. Throw in condensation, drinks being spilled, windows let open when it rains, plants on window ledge,,,,, something is bound to go wrong.

So really it's just 2 easy/minor repairs in a angle(s):thumbup:


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## saskataper

Yeah that's the only window in the house with a drywall return on the bottom. The rest I only had to worry about the sides and top, bottom was for the finish carpenter. 

Here is the Facebook page if you've got the time. 

http://www.facebook.com/js.sona.1?ref=ts&fref=ts


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## moore

Very common sask!! Houses are living things IMO...Each has it's own personality @ attitude..due to materials/lumber/temperture during construction .. 

I have one spec that those diagonal cracks occur on all four corners of the wrapped opening between the kitchen and living room ..They start off easy then bust open about 1 year later
[truss lift] 

WE are drywallers applying man made materials to a tree!


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## saskataper

I guess I should mention for those who don't know, I only use FibaFuse so that was what I was trying to show in that post, you don't have to worry about what it does down the road. I think it's the next big thing in taping.


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## moore

saskataper said:


> I guess I should mention for those who don't know, I only use FibaFuse so that was what I was trying to show in that post, you don't have to worry about what it does down the road. I think it's the next big thing in taping.[/quote
> 
> 
> Looks like you have the same callbacks as a guy that uses paper.
> 
> Those angles are torn not cracked.


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## Kiwiman

saskataper said:


> I went around a house I taped in the spring looking for cracks and I did find a couple. The first ones around the pony wall and window are the worst by far, there is a small joint between the wall and window but I'm sure it would have cracked no matter what was done there and the one above is a crack in the board itself so it shows how much the house has settled. I also found short cracks in a couple of the angles on the front and back corners of the house. I figure that's pretty good in a house with around 7500ft of board.


Very much a structural issue, I don't think it would matter what tape is used it would still end up the same if the movement is bad enough.


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## chris

moore said:


> saskataper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I should mention for those who don't know, I only use FibaFuse so that was what I was trying to show in that post, you don't have to worry about what it does down the road. I think it's the next big thing in taping.[/quote
> 
> 
> Looks like you have the same callbacks as a guy that uses paper.
> 
> Those angles are torn not cracked.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never seen an angle look like that in 20 plus years,  Ill stick with paper after seeing those last pics:yes:. Stress cracks should not be that bad so soon, no matter the movement in structure, that looks real bad, like it wasnt taped
Click to expand...


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## 2buckcanuck

chris said:


> moore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never seen an angle look like that in 20 plus years,  Ill stick with paper after seeing those last pics:yes:. Stress cracks should not be that bad so soon, no matter the movement in structure, that looks real bad, like it wasnt taped
> 
> 
> 
> Looks more like human error to me, maybe done with his sponge sander or knife.:yes:
> 
> Did you check out his face book page, to see the type/design of the house Saska was taping. Maybe Saska can elaborate more, where it happened, was it a long tape or short tape, was he using a new angle head, was it in a stairwell etc...
> 
> That's a house that has been standing for at least 8 months. I have seen houses looking worse than that after 3 months (not my work of coarse:whistling2 especially with 2 coat tapers
Click to expand...


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## thefinisher

Cracking in angles is common in many of our houses from the floor up to a few feet or so. It is usually on exterior walls. May have something to do with when they run the baseboard also. All I do is run a bit of mud on my finger like caulk..... never a problem.


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## saskataper

I think some of you might be getting fooled by by the scale of those angle pics, they are close ups, that crack is maybe 3" long


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Cracking in angles is common in many of our houses from the floor up to a few feet or so. It is usually on exterior walls. May have something to do with when they run the baseboard also. All I do is run a bit of mud on my finger like caulk..... never a problem.


 Tell your hangers to place a screw 4 '' up from the floor in the angles . loose board will cause that problem..
loading mud over angle tape that hasn't completly dried will cause hairline cracks later on when the tape finally has the chance to dry out.


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## moore

chris said:


> moore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never seen an angle look like that in 20 plus years,  Ill stick with paper after seeing those last pics:yes:. Stress cracks should not be that bad so soon, no matter the movement in structure, that looks real bad, like it wasnt taped
> 
> 
> 
> He lives In CANADA!!! bRRRRR!!!! The qoute above Is by Chris not me.:blink:
Click to expand...


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## Capt-sheetrock

saskataper said:


> I think some of you might be getting fooled by by the scale of those angle pics, they are close ups, that crack is maybe 3" long


 I did wake up in the morning next to one of them !!!!!:yes:


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## icerock drywall

Newagestucco said:


> keep hearing cracking butts joints not good


 I use fiba tape on all the butts than fibafuse over it ...never had one crack on me


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> Tell your hangers to place a screw 4 '' up from the floor in the angles . loose board will cause that problem..
> loading mud over angle tape that hasn't completly dried will cause hairline cracks later on when the tape finally has the chance to dry out.



They put one right at the bottom on the angles and another about 6" high usually? They always put a lot of screws in the angles and the butts....


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## icerock drywall

f ff f rocks !!!


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## Capt-sheetrock

I think you guys may be abit to zealous,,,,,,

I have done a bunch of trim work,,,What happens is this,,, the trim guy wants his stuff to look good, so he cuts it tight,,, then copes the next pieace,,, tight,,,,,, that means that he has to "drive" it into place. 

That will crack even Moore's corners.

The point of this post is this,,,,, sometimes the cracks at the bottom are the trim guys fault!!!!!:yes:


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## carpentaper

i crack corners installing base all the time. just a quick wipe of caulking solves it. no biggie.


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think you guys may be abit to zealous,,,,,,
> 
> I have done a bunch of trim work,,,What happens is this,,, the trim guy wants his stuff to look good, so he cuts it tight,,, then copes the next pieace,,, tight,,,,,, that means that he has to "drive" it into place.
> 
> That will crack even Moore's corners.
> 
> The point of this post is this,,,,, sometimes the cracks at the bottom are the trim guys fault!!!!!:yes:


 I'm standing here beside myself..:yes:


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## Newagestucco

well i have to say, when i did use fibafuse in the zook ,it work well for corners

I just did a repair job, in the last few days too small for the zook
everything by hand, use ff on it, thought it was realy crap, for doing conners by hand flats were ok 

paper work beter in the conners when doing it by hand for me


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## saskataper

Newagestucco said:


> well i have to say, when i did use fibafuse in the zook ,it work well for corners
> 
> I just did a repair job, in the last few days too small for the zook
> everything by hand, use ff on it, thought it was realy crap, for doing conners by hand flats were ok
> 
> paper work beter in the conners when doing it by hand for me


Yeah that's the only time I will use paper, to hand tape angles.


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## smisner50s

I still use paper in the corners
Ff is just to easy to tear in corners where paper you can plow away


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## icerock drywall

smisner50s said:


> I still use paper in the corners
> Ff is just to easy to tear in corners where paper you can plow away


you need the right tool to use fibafuse in the corners...:blink:


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## smisner50s

icerock drywall said:


> you need the right tool to use fibafuse in the corners...:blink:


I got flushers and angle heads..i just like paper in the corners


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## icerock drywall

smisner50s said:


> I got flushers and angle heads..i just like paper in the corners


thats cool! :yes:


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> I got flushers and angle heads..i just like paper in the corners


Same here

Till the price of the fuse comes down, I only use it on small stuff, where I know I can tape out and coat the flats in the same day. I did not mind it's use in the angles, but till the price of the fuse comes down, I think I will stick with paper in the corners. Once the price of the fuse comes down, then I might half to debate with myself, which one I will use, till the Price comes down.

Did I mention the price should come down:whistling2:Fiba fuse, if your reading this, lower your price MORE:yes:


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## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> same here
> 
> till the price of the fuse comes down, i only use it on small stuff, where i know i can tape out and coat the flats in the same day. I did not mind it's use in the angles, but till the price of the fuse comes down, i think i will stick with paper in the corners. Once the price of the fuse comes down, then i might half to debate with myself, which one i will use, till the price comes down.
> 
> Did i mention the price should come down:whistling2:fiba fuse, if your reading this, lower your price more:yes:


 i have had to many times it rips and i have to calk it ...paper well enough said


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