# Wallboard



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

We need an inprovement in the wallboard industry.


I log in to there sites and face book pages ,,It makes me sick...I'm out here TRYING!!! To fix the trash there putting out ,,and there making millions.. 

N/G REGULAR board is the only board I've used without high shoulder issues...N/G Light wieght [crap] along with all the other L/W boards.

Certainteed...duh!
USG - whore deep recess with high shoulders worse than certainteed!!

Did all the old plaster guys from the 50's 60's and 70's buy out the wallboard industry? Is there a plan here? They can't be putting this chit out on purpose!! 

Lets improve the product FIRST! Then move on to the tool.


----------



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> They can't be putting this chit out on purpose!!



I believe they are ! By doing that they cause us to use more mud. I keep seeing the price of mud go up and the quantity go down. They're not stupid, that's for sure. They know what they're doing. Screwing us !


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> We need an inprovement in the wallboard industry.
> 
> I log in to there sites and face book pages ,,It makes me sick...I'm out here TRYING!!! To fix the trash there putting out ,,and there making millions..
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me. Let's bring rock lath back.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

we are getting a good deal of the N/G lightroc and it is finishing out fine for us? No high shoulders..... a bit crumbly at times but other than that it is good. Also, our certainteed doesn't have any high shoulders on it.


----------



## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

mudslingr said:


> I believe they are ! By doing that they cause us to use more mud. I keep seeing the price of mud go up and the quantity go down. They're not stupid, that's for sure. They know what they're doing. Screwing us !


 thats a fact, you're right on the mark with that statement.just look at the size of the bevels alone and how much additional material used .even 15 yrs back i could run finish angles with half a bucket in 5000sq.ft. of board.2.5" angle head.now i'd use full box to handfill the top bevel before i even run my finish.i don't care how the rest of you guys get your perfect corner ,this is'nt what this comments about.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

i like the lafarge but the bevels are deep. The top angles are a SOB to coat with a roller. i end up just doing them by hand. i think the best rock right now is the georgia-pacific. the bevel is medium but the shoulder are nice. The only problem with the GP stuff it stays punky for a few days. i dont recomend it for rush jobs. really nice when it gets acclimated.


----------



## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I noticed deep bevels today for the first time actually....
My fuys had a hard time flushing the tapes.. Just wouldnt fill.
I had to go up there and check out what was going on and sure enough, deep deep bevels. First time I've seen it up here.


----------



## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

My last 2 jobs have been GP Tough Rock, with mashed edges everywhere. The first one I couldn't figure out why my corner bead was taking so much mud. It finally hit me today on the second job with the same problem. The damn shoulders are so high the bead is being held out on almost every stick of bead. When I started looking I could clearly see the bead was off the board in between the high shoulders. 

The amount of mud were going through on the flats, and angles is out of control also. You can't get the boxes to feather without crowning the joint. On angles I've been using a 3.5" with the bazooka, 3" on second coat, and a 2.5" on third. It's out of control, angles used to be beautiful running a 3" on tape, and a 2" on my finish coat. 

Tough Rock can POUND GYPSUM UP THEIR A**! They are stealing money from every finisher who has to deal with this garbage.:furious:


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I have been using the GP type x. Not sure if its made here or in canada. i went through 1000 sheets with no problems in the board. Its also a bit cheaper then lafarge or usg.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

b said:


> thats a fact, you're right on the mark with that statement.just look at the size of the bevels alone and how much additional material used .even 15 yrs back i could run finish angles with half a bucket in 5000sq.ft. of board.2.5" angle head.now i'd use full box to handfill the top bevel before i even run my finish.i don't care how the rest of you guys get your perfect corner ,this is'nt what this comments about.


 If we could just go back to 15 years ago..:yes: Back then I had no clue what a high shoulder was. 

In the pic the ceilings are textured..I will rerun the top angle after tex ..This will help to hide the shoulder.


----------



## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

boco said:


> I have been using the GP type x. Not sure if its made here or in canada. i went through 1000 sheets with no problems in the board. Its also a bit cheaper then lafarge or usg.


The Toughrock type x I've been getting is pure junk. I can grab the recess in the middle of the sheet, and just rip a chunk out of it. The lightweight toughrock is the worst one to deal with for me. Not sure where mine comes form, but it honestly makes the CertainTeed rock look like a quality product lol. When GP first brought out ToughRock I liked using it, but now its unbearable. Over the years I've had multiple jobs where the paper isn't bonded to the gypsum. 3 jobs were bad enough where you could pull the paper off 1/2-3/4 of sheet. I don't doubt your rock is probably better, I have wondered at times if the local supply house that stocks it might be getting substandard board for a reduced rate(factory seconds). My conspiracy theory or not the product GP is giving us in the Mpls, MN area is unacceptable.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

boco said:


> I have been using the GP type x. Not sure if its made here or in canada. i went through 1000 sheets with no problems in the board. Its also a bit cheaper then lafarge or usg.


I haven't noticed any problem with 5/8" board, any one else notice this? It's only the 1/2" rock, and half the time there's a bevel on the back too:furious:


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Mudslinger said:


> The Toughrock type x I've been getting is pure junk. I can grab the recess in the middle of the sheet, and just rip a chunk out of it. The lightweight toughrock is the worst one to deal with for me. Not sure where mine comes form, but it honestly makes the CertainTeed rock look like a quality product lol. When GP first brought out ToughRock I liked using it, but now its unbearable. Over the years I've had multiple jobs where the paper isn't bonded to the gypsum. 3 jobs were bad enough where you could pull the paper off 1/2-3/4 of sheet. I don't doubt your rock is probably better, I have wondered at times if the local supply house that stocks it might be getting substandard board for a reduced rate(factory seconds). My conspiracy theory or not the product GP is giving us in the Mpls, MN area is unacceptable.


Nah, we're getting the same crap here. I had a job once where I could pull off the entire backside of an 8 ft. sheet without any effort. I called the super on that one, and let him know we might be in for a fight with the supply house...


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

The board seems to be a problem the world over. Here is a picture of some sheet we got on a job a while ago. I rang the supplier and they came and swapped over the whole pack of 50, 20 footers.
Once I pointed out that there name was on the line with the builder I got action fast :yes:.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> The board seems to be a problem the world over. Here is a picture of some sheet we got on a job a while ago. I rang the supplier and they came and swapped over the whole pack of 50, 20 footers.
> Once I pointed out that there name was on the line with the builder I got action fast :yes:.


Wow:blink:

Look at the loose paper at the end of your butts, their huge:blink:

You mates must half to "V" you ends to stick them in a corner/internal:blink:, let alone butts


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> Wow:blink:
> 
> Look at the loose paper at the end of your butts, their huge:blink:
> 
> You mates must half to "V" you ends to stick them in a corner/internal:blink:, let alone butts


Yeah, I noticed that too.  Maybe that is why they use the rebate mate down there and not much up here. No kiddin gaz, we just don't see butt ends like that here.


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Yes they have been garbage lately. I have been using my cut edges as the second sheet for the internal. 

How about you blokes show us a pic of your sheet ends, I will pass it on to our manufacturer and show them what they have to work towards.

For us the main reason I rejected that load of board was the rebate. The first part was really shallow, then it took a nose dive, and the edge was rounded. The back of the recess was hollow as well. If they want us to use that type of garbage they will have to send out a whole heap of sugar. The only way I know how to make strawberry jam out of pig crap is to keep adding heaps and heaps of sugar .


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Not so good here either, Inconsistant, Highshoulders all over the place, But i did notice very shallow recesses on the last job, Tape coat was dam near flat, Not much to cover.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> we are getting a good deal of the N/G lightroc and it is finishing out fine for us? No high shoulders..... a bit crumbly at times but other than that it is good. Also, our certainteed doesn't have any high shoulders on it.


 Really?:blink: Every other drywall man in the continent of North America is up in arms about the high shoulders on the certainteed @ light wieght boards. ,,but it's all peachy there in SC.? HELL!
Your workers would be the first to find a high shoulder since there all eye level with the wall seams!:yes:


----------



## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

moore said:


> Really?:blink: Every other drywall man in the continent of North America is up in arms about the high shoulders on the certainteed @ light wieght boards. ,,but it's all peachy there in SC.? HELL!
> Your workers would be the first to find a high shoulder since there all eye level with the wall seams!:yes:


Just came off a job with National and had problems. Just started a job with USG and guess what?......sucks @$$


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Square Foot said:


> Just came off a job with National and had problems. Just started a job with USG and guess what?......sucks @$$


 Dude I don't even bother with those pencil neck reps anymore..They just blow smoke up my ass then tell me how much better there product will be . Then in the same breath start to brag about how they were the 2nd or 1st largest seller of wallboard in the year of who gives a chit!!! I'm gonna start loading my jobs with osb 4x8 sheets and throw some fresco harmony on top.
fck it!! If we cut them out completly they will have to change up and get it right.


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

gazman said:


> How about you blokes show us a pic of your sheet ends, I will pass it on to our manufacturer and show them what they have to work towards.


Gaz I know it doesnt show detail but this is how well our butts are protected on the delivery. Do they not do that there? All the sheets come in two's with this covering. Even the double layers of 12' 5/8 come delivered this way. I can certainly understand nobody wanting to haul in 2 layers of your 20 footers at a time though. :blink:


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Mudshark. There is no such thing here, the only thing that resembles protection for the sheets is that they come face to face. Maybe they recon we have 20 foot to play with so we can cut the crap off the end .


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

When we peel the paper (tabs) off the end of the board it is about a sharp of an edge as you could expect. Of course it sometimes gets a bit scuffed in handling but that is at a minimum with good boarders. I think the tabs probably prevent a lot of moisture from getting in to the ends as well so it is a good thing to leave on until ready to board. Don't imagine you have the same moisture problem down there. Wonder if New Zealand is the same as Australia for their boards? :huh:


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Mudshark said:


> Gaz I know it doesnt show detail but this is how well our butts are protected on the delivery. Do they not do that there? All the sheets come in two's with this covering. Even the double layers of 12' 5/8 come delivered this way. I can certainly understand nobody wanting to haul in 2 layers of your 20 footers at a time though. :blink:


We have the end tabs holding 2 sheets together here too.


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> We have the end tabs holding 2 sheets together here too.


Is that on 6m sheets as well?


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

gazman said:


> Is that on 6m sheets as well?


Come to think of it I haven't taken any notice, they don't stock 6m on the shelves, you have to order them in.


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

gazman said:


> Is that on 6m sheets as well?


Yes it is gaz, On all the sheet sizes, I had some 6m in my place, We tore off the paper tabs to moving them one at a time. Heres some pics of the board.


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

Mudslinger said:


> My last 2 jobs have been GP Tough Rock, with mashed edges everywhere. The first one I couldn't figure out why my corner bead was taking so much mud. It finally hit me today on the second job with the same problem. The damn shoulders are so high the bead is being held out on almost every stick of bead. When I started looking I could clearly see the bead was off the board in between the high shoulders.
> 
> The amount of mud were going through on the flats, and angles is out of control also. You can't get the boxes to feather without crowning the joint. On angles I've been using a 3.5" with the bazooka, 3" on second coat, and a 2.5" on third. It's out of control, angles used to be beautiful running a 3" on tape, and a 2" on my finish coat.
> 
> Tough Rock can POUND GYPSUM UP THEIR A**! They are stealing money from every finisher who has to deal with this garbage.:furious:




buy far the worst crap I've ever boarded with and it seems like the suppliers store the crap in a crawl space for a year or two before selling it total sh#t.


----------



## harvv (Jul 21, 2012)

moore said:


> Really?:blink: Every other drywall man in the continent of North America is up in arms about the high shoulders on the certainteed @ light wieght boards. ,,but it's all peachy there in SC.? HELL!
> Your workers would be the first to find a high shoulder since there all eye level with the wall seams!:yes:


Moore im in NC. Havent seen any certainteed so i cant say anything about that. But have used a number of the lightweight products and i would say they end up being 80% good 20% terrible high shoulders for us. When ripping off a half inch or something the bevels on those lightweight sheets seem to break a lot worse than normal sheets.

My main complaint is with a lot of the places around here storing them without enough dundage(or w/e its called) underneath the stacks as well as basically keeping them outside. So when theyre delivered and leaning against the wall they look like a freakin roller coaster. The board can literally be in the center of the stack and have huuuges waves all through it. Will make a straight wall look terrible.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

gordie said:


> buy far the worst crap I've ever boarded with and it seems like the suppliers store the crap in a crawl space for a year or two before selling it total sh#t.


Wow kinda shocked to you didnt like the gp. I know that some of the ends are bad but the bevel and shoulders are nice. For thr ends i am not sure what its called when it looks like it went through a shredder. but it was only a few boards which we just stuck in a corner or trimmed the bad edge off. We used all LW 5/8s 12 footers on the ceilings walls were the 1/2" 54" 12 footers. I used all trim tex and bead went on very well. The job I am on now is all lafarge huge bevels but looks great even though the paper is a bit soft. Bead was all metal and we did have some issues nailing it on due to bevel at top and middle seam. Bathroom was all MMR board which doesnt have the bevel but paper was too rough for a semigloss finish. other then giving a level 5 I opted for a double prime with swp preprite 200. Then 2 coats of the aura by BM.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

N/g l/w PURE JUNK! It must be cheap,cheap,cheap..cause every supply in the state of Va. Has it stacked to the rafters:furious:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm sure all the light board is cheap we've almost completly changed over in the 1/2",and they say the 5/8" is comming soon.I just don't believe there making it light for us boarders.:lol:

Plus i get phoriasis it's like exima on my wists and elbows no big deal. But this new board is driving me nuts itchy as hell and like i said in earlier post i try to were a mask because the stuff chokes me. I'm the only boarder I've seen wearing one but other guys are thinking about it just makes it hard to hear what i say some times.

They must be makin it with some bad crap


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

gordie said:


> I'm sure all the light board is cheap we've almost completly changed over in the 1/2",and they say the 5/8" is comming soon.I just don't believe there making it light for us boarders.:lol:
> 
> Plus i get phoriasis it's like exima on my wists and elbows no big deal. But this new board is driving me nuts itchy as hell and like i said in earlier post i try to were a mask because the stuff chokes me. I'm the only boarder I've seen wearing one but other guys are thinking about it just makes it hard to hear what i say some times.
> 
> They must be makin it with some bad crap


Its all cheap crap. :furious:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I've got 2 homes ..a basement job ,,and an addition loaded with this 
trash.. National gypsum l/w board..:thumbup:

I can be a real prick when I wanna be,I've been a prick all week! :furious:


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

moore said:


> I've got 2 homes ..a basement job ,,and an addition loaded with this
> trash.. National gypsum l/w board..:thumbup:
> 
> I can be a real prick when I wanna be,I've been a prick all week! :furious:


I could show you the exact same pics . Certainteed high shouldered l/w should be what it is called. Junk........ Exactly the same as you are showing and only on one side .


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I've got 2 homes ..a basement job ,,and an addition loaded with this
> trash.. National gypsum l/w board..:thumbup:
> 
> I can be a real prick when I wanna be,I've been a prick all week! :furious:


I don't know Moore, you might be being a little bit too fussy:yes:

It looks like the joint is getting a good fill, so some of that could be the crown of the wood. I will only put the straight edge on the joint, not out past it like you have in some of your pics. It would be moore interesting to see what those joints are doing with a 10" straight edge right on the joint:yes:


----------



## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't know Moore, you might be being a little bit too fussy:yes:
> 
> It looks like the joint is getting a good fill, so some of that could be the crown of the wood. I will only put the straight edge on the joint, not out past it like you have in some of your pics. It would be moore interesting to see what those joints are doing with a 10" straight edge right on the joint:yes:


Agreed on the wood comment as part of the problem.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't know Moore, you might be being a little bit too fussy:yes:
> 
> It looks like the joint is getting a good fill, so some of that could be the crown of the wood. I will only put the straight edge on the joint, not out past it like you have in some of your pics. It would be moore interesting to see what those joints are doing with a 10" straight edge right on the joint:yes:


Are you high? Look at the pics Rick! If those aren't high sholders ...wtf are they???? The frame in this home was within 1/16 ...The frame was perfect.. The other home they loaded this board with was crooked as a sheep ****..With the same shoulder problems,,no.. I'm not being fussy I'm getting ****ed! Like campbell said about the certainteed It's only on one side ..and when those two sides meet It's a bitch!:thumbup:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

:no::no::no::no::no:


Square Foot said:


> Agreed on the wood comment as part of the problem.


----------



## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

moore said:


> :no::no::no::no::no:


Well your the one there working with it, so you would know ....but....wood crown and non flush stud blocking can wreak havoc as well.


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Ill throw up some pics Tomorrow. If its because of the wood than all studs should be crowned the same way...therefore ....on one side of the wall there would be shoulders showing and on the opposite side they shouldn't . I have to agree with Moore on this one . Before using boxes I had no idea what a high shoulder was....I sure do now. I thought it was that my boxes weren't set up right and one side was out of whack. Now I know.......... I'm running my 12 tomorrow... Might try something a little different. Instead if hitting the seam evenly I'm gonna hit the high shoulder right in the middle of the box in a couple spots on 3 maybe 4 and see if it covers without scraping paper and see how that works trying to avoid a 3rd skim . I'm guessing it might not work.......... Even the bevels are ****ed on this ****.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> Are you high? Look at the pics Rick! If those aren't high sholders ...wtf are they???? The frame in this home was within 1/16 ...The frame was perfect.. The other home they loaded this board with was crooked as a sheep ****..With the same shoulder problems,,no.. I'm not being fussy I'm getting ****ed! Like campbell said about the certainteed It's only on one side ..and when those two sides meet It's a bitch!:thumbup:


Joints got to be flat, that's it, when dealing with high shoulder, it looks more like the bevell only got filled, then you box leaves a heavy edge either side. You getting a heavy fill. So if you put a straight edge right on the joint, and see a gap top and bottom, then it's high shoulders.

with 9 and 10 high walls, (which we do a lot of)the crown will affect your work. So you could have a flat joint with good fill, but you could look down the wall, and notice the whole wall is pregnant/bowed.

To examine 2 of your pics, what I see is common, red arrows show that some of the grey of the sheet is showing through (which is good) black lines show where to do your next box run. That's why I do the chase method of boxing, I address it well the joint is still wet:yes:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Square Foot said:


> Well your the one there working with it, so you would know ....but....wood crown and non flush stud blocking can wreak havoc as well.


 The field of the board is glued ..would that not help with the high shoulders? It should draw the recess IN? RIGHT? That's how bad these shoulders are Cali,,,or am I missing something?:blink:


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Joints got to be flat, that's it, when dealing with high shoulder, it looks more like the bevell only got filled, then you box leaves a heavy edge either side. You getting a heavy fill. So if you put a straight edge right on the joint, and see a gap top and bottom, then it's high shoulders.
> 
> with 9 and 10 high walls, (which we do a lot of)the crown will affect your work. So you could have a flat joint with good fill, but you could look down the wall, and notice the whole wall is pregnant/bowed.
> 
> To examine 2 of your pics, what I see is common, red arrows show that some of the grey of the sheet is showing through (which is good) black lines show where to do your next box run. That's why I do the chase method of boxing, I address it well the joint is still wet:yes:


Hitting the side opposite the high shoulder? Ya I guess that makes sense . I would have thought the opposite .........do you skim these areas a third time?


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Hitting the side opposite the high shoulder? Ya I guess that makes sense . I would have thought the opposite .........do you skim these areas a third time?


If it needs it:whistling2:

As everyone says on here, you got to do what you got to do to make it pass


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> The field of the board is glued ..would that not help with the high shoulders? It should draw the recess IN? RIGHT? That's how bad these shoulders are Cali,,,or am I missing something?:blink:


We don't use glue here

But I think I know what your saying, we shall half to discuss this tomorrow night:thumbsup:


----------



## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

moore said:


> The field of the board is glued ..would that not help with the high shoulders? It should draw the recess IN? RIGHT? That's how bad these shoulders are Cali,,,or am I missing something?:blink:


Recess pulled tight and field more or less floating over any stud inconsistency. Is this what you're saying?

I don't use glue either, Moore ...so I can't honestly say.


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Here are a few pics


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Here are a few more


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The L/W Boards are worthless.. unless a diy wants to use it in a home repair .. For new construction It's a JOKE!

Weak....Very Weak board. :yes:


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Here are a few more


Thats what i have here as well, All of it, All the time. I should post some pics but they would look just like yours.


----------



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

cazna said:


> Thats what i have here as well, All of it, All the time. I should post some pics but they would look just like yours.


Yup. All of our certainteed board is the same and only on one side. I talked to the certainteed rep at our annual home hardware contractor show last week . He said he gets complaints but never from my region of Canada. Mostly Ontario and westward. Not many machine tapers down my way I guess here in Nova Scotia . He said they do a test on the board every 300 sheets . If it gets bad than that lot gets dumped( so he says). He also said there is a certain amount of leeway and they let it slide at times. Also told me the problem was because the rollers wear down or don't get replaced as often as they should. There fore causing the high shoulders. He did however give me his card and I could call him and give him the time on the sheets and he could tell me what they read when that lot was tested if I had any more problems. Anyone want the number?????????


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I've got Reps crawilng out my ass over this l/w junk!!


I refuse to use it! You load it ..I will walk!:yes: 

Sheets of cardboard .....That's all it is!!!!! JUNK! !!!!


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Winstones wallboard has been [email protected] lately too, delaminating paper on the backs (not good when using glue), soft core when cutting, sheet ends (butts) delaminating, the only improvement I've noticed is there doesn't seem to be any factory dents anymore, I think you guy's call it tiger striping.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

About a year ago we had the regional NG rep out to look at a chit load of high shoulders. He said the the factory said it's with in their tolerances. _I figure if the shoulder is higher than the thickness of tape they may as well lose the tapered edge all together._ 
He also said I was the only person in the region with a complaint. 
Then he instructed the supply house to quit selling us National Gyp drywall. 
The yard sends us USG/NG/CERT, all have the same issue.
The USG rep came out to take a look this week and said he wasn't aware of the shoulder issue:blink:.WTF???


----------



## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

I wonder if any of the drywall manufactures have thought about making tapered edges on the butt ends. That would help eliminate butt joints and make coating them easier. The bad thing about that would be butt board being used less. So maybe a bad idea sorry trim Tex


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

...n/g l/w


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

National l/W board


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

You might half to go back to Certainteed Moore

Not kidding:yes:

House I did last week, I checking out the CD board to see if it was the [email protected] that needed pre-filling. When I looked up, I was like WTF:blink:, did they use 1/2 reg on the 24" ceilings, b/c it looked good. Then I looked at who made it, and again I was like WTF:blink:, it's certainteed.

No pre-fill needed, no high shoulders, so it coated out good:thumbup:

Thought I would give credit due for them getting it right for once, so thank you Certainteed.........

But, we still half to hold their feet to the fire, for those that put Chit on the Market. It's like one Supply house told me, a lot of rock gets sold in places like Lowes and Home Depot, where the average consumer buys it, What do they know about bad drywall????? It's the Supply house that caters to the Professional drywaller that needs the feed back, and as he told me, they don't get enough feed back from the pro's (sub-trades).


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> we are getting a good deal of the N/G lightroc and it is finishing out fine for us? No high shoulders..... a bit crumbly at times but other than that it is good. Also, our certainteed doesn't have any high shoulders on it.


 My l/w comes from NC. Seems that yours would too..:blink:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

moore said:


> National l/W board


Yup, that's looks like the board we've been getting.:yes:


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

As far as I can see the world over none of the manufacturers can get it right. Here is our latest, fine on one side of the board but the other side has a shallow recess and the edge is like a bull nose. I can see a lot of prefill on this one.:yes:


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

what brand of board is that gazman?


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

CSR  Keke.


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> CSR  Keke.


 I hoped you won't say that


----------



## grinnell drywall (Aug 14, 2011)

all the board has gone downhill the last ten years or so. the companys know we need it and are gonna buy it so they have no incentive to fix the problems


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

They use rollers now to create the recess ..before the rollers they used a pie shaped [pie slice] thingy to make the recess ..Mabey they should go back to the ole way. If it aint broke ..Why fix it?

Something aint working ...That I do know!!


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> They use rollers now to create the recess ..before the rollers they used a pie shaped [pie slice] thingy to make the recess ..Mabey they should go back to the ole way. If it aint broke ..Why fix it?
> 
> Something aint working ...That I do know!!


MMMMMM PIE,,,,, I have a sudden urge for PIE










Thanks a lot Moore:furious:


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Heres some of our finest, All standard issue.


----------



## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

Now I know what you guys are complaining about . I hung my first and last job with CertainTeed board today. Absolutely the worst drywall I have hung in my 42 years of hanging. Indescribably awful.:furious:


----------



## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Such a shame because I always loved certainteed board for hanging. Always was nice and easy to cut and break. Prefered toughrock for finishing as i found it to be crisper and less delicate. Soon as they changed to lightweight though seems like it all went to **** I agree, cuts and breaks like ****, rounded bevels causing tapes to brad up in the centre . If you ask me I'd trade it back for the extra weight any day!


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

USG regular board. Nice flat edges on both sides..No need for 
pre-fill ceilings or walls.

No high shoulders ...none.


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> USG regular board. Nice flat edges on both sides..No need for
> pre-fill ceilings or walls.
> 
> No high shoulders ...none.


It's still lw cheap brittle crap.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> It's still lw cheap brittle crap.


 no...It's the regular board...What board do you use diy Jesus?


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> no...It's the regular board...What board do you use diy Jesus?


Hey, Jesus was a carpenter and even back then the plasterers told him WTF to do.

USB crap.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Hey, Jesus was a carpenter and even back then the plasterers told him WTF to do.


what's USB?


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> what's USB?


Use substandard board.


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> USG regular board. Nice flat edges on both sides..No need for
> pre-fill ceilings or walls.
> 
> No high shoulders ...none.


But how can it be???


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The reason for N/G USG and Certainteed switching to light weight boards ?? The plant can transport more boards to the supplies.
The supplies can transport more boards to the job site... By the end of this year there will be no regular board left on the east coast.

There not making it light to help out the hangers /boarders There making it l/w to make more money ...So have fun with the weak ass flimsy high shoulder boards boys ..You'll be looking at it from here on out!! FYI.. Mexicans don't knife check..so this won't effect them in any way .


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

http://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_surace_fixing_drywall_to_heal_the_planet.html

CertainTeed Has been making synthetic board from chimney ash for a few years now...Those new jobs He spoke of?? China?


http://www.certainteed.com/learning-center/gypsum/?qid=123


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

National LW on factory trusses 24 oc..But the last house I did had stick built trusses 16 oc with the same high shoulders ..

It's a weak board...


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

maybe you should come up my way future partner

The certainteed board has been really good lately, and were getting some type of board from Michigan. It's called National Gypsum. Only thing I don't like about it is, they have little black "X" marks to mark 16" in on the bevell. Great for the drywaller, but I keep finding myself almost spotting them, thinking their screws (eye sight going:whistling2

But can you tell me what to hell Language their speaking in Michigan now, this is on the back of the sheet:blink:


----------



## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Fire resistant board in the dreaded but seemingly everywhere Spanish!!


----------



## floatking (Feb 2, 2012)

Umm im mexican and I do knife check. A professional always knife checks and my crew and I dont cut corners. Seems like the internet is the best place to talk chit without knowing the facts. Anyway, it does not matter the race I have had white folks do chit work and I fire them ASAP. 

But yeah, gypsum panels have been low quality. Hey, its easier to screw the workers in difficult times. They know we buying.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> maybe you should come up my way future partner
> 
> The certainteed board has been really good lately, and were getting some type of board from Michigan. It's called National Gypsum. Only thing I don't like about it is, they have little black "X" marks to mark 16" in on the bevell. Great for the drywaller, but I keep finding myself almost spotting them, thinking their screws (eye sight going:whistling2
> 
> But can you tell me what to hell Language their speaking in Michigan now, this is on the back of the sheet:blink:


How ya like those nice clean factory butt cuts on that National board?:whistling2:....and why is this?


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

floatking said:


> Umm im mexican and I do knife check. A professional always knife checks and my crew and I dont cut corners. Seems like the internet is the best place to talk chit without knowing the facts. Anyway, it does not matter the race I have had white folks do chit work and I fire them ASAP.
> 
> But yeah, gypsum panels have been low quality. Hey, its easier to screw the workers in difficult times. They know we buying.


I know what I've seen here floatking ..that's all!
what board do ya use there?


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> maybe you should come up my way future partner
> 
> The certainteed board has been really good lately, and were getting some type of board from Michigan. It's called National Gypsum. Only thing I don't like about it is, they have little black "X" marks to mark 16" in on the bevell. Great for the drywaller, but I keep finding myself almost spotting them, thinking their screws (eye sight going:whistling2
> 
> But can you tell me what to hell Language their speaking in Michigan now, this is on the back of the sheet:blink:


We get a lot of that board around here... I really can't complain a whole lot about our board other than it is a bit crumbly. Haven't been getting a lot of high shoulders.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

floatking said:


> Umm im mexican and I do knife check. A professional always knife checks and my crew and I dont cut corners. Seems like the internet is the best place to talk chit without knowing the facts. Anyway, it does not matter the race I have had white folks do chit work and I fire them ASAP.
> 
> But yeah, gypsum panels have been low quality. Hey, its easier to screw the workers in difficult times. They know we buying.


You will find that some people on here dislike the mexican work force. I have caught some flack on more than a few occassions about our use of mexican workers. We hire them because they do a very professional job and outwork everyone else that we have tried. Although you can't blame some of them if it is illegals that are undercutting them, but not all mexicans are illegal.


----------



## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

thefinisher said:


> You will find that some people on here dislike the mexican work force. I have caught some flack on more than a few occassions about our use of mexican workers. We hire them because they do a very professional job and outwork everyone else that we have tried. Although you can't blame some of them if it is illegals that are undercutting them, but not all mexicans are illegal.


 

But all Mexicans work for nothing.:furious:


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

super rocker said:


> But all Mexicans work for nothing.:furious:


Not around here they dont.... Before they came around here the prices were actually lower :yes:. In the last ten years the prices went up then way back down and now it is going back up. This is mainly due to the fact that there is a huge DWC in our area that sets the pricing and they can drive down the prices to cut everyone out of business.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

We bid a job this week at $8.50

The guy said WHAT????? I can get the Mexicans to do it for $5.00

I told him,,,, "do I LOOK like a Mexican?????????"

It's still in the mix,,,, last call, he wanted us to do it for $8.00,,,,,

But after all,,,,, F him,,,,, We laid it down,,, now it's up to him, does he what mex's or not????

remains to be seen


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> We bid a job this week at $8.50
> 
> The guy said WHAT????? I can get the Mexicans to do it for $5.00
> 
> ...


I just paid the hangers that much and then some for a 3 bedroom straight 8 ranch.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Not around here they dont.... Before they came around here the prices were actually lower :yes:. In the last ten years the prices went up then way back down and now it is going back up. This is mainly due to the fact that there is a huge DWC in our area that sets the pricing and they can drive down the prices to cut everyone out of business.


Who puts out better work? You..or that huge DWC?


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I dedicate this song to national gypsum and USG L/W BOARDS .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT-On4fSo1M


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Who puts out better work? You..or that huge DWC?


Of course we do.... that's why we pay our guys more than them :thumbsup:. We actually used to finish for that huge DWC over a decade ago so we know how they work.


----------



## floatking (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> I know what I've seen here floatking ..that's all!
> what board do ya use there?


American Gypsum or Sheetrock. Whatever the builder provides or what is available to us at the time.


----------



## floatking (Feb 2, 2012)

Also the Mexicans work more and get paid the same as everyone else as long as they are professional like the guys we have known for years. They don't demand much in terms of lunch times and going home before the work for the day is done. I am Mexican and my father and I run our own drywall business and understand that people have bills to pay and families to feed and it is not illegals driving the labor costs down. I have seen the cutting down from all sides of the business. Ranging from General Contractors not wanting to pay anybody much to white, black and brown folks that don't know how to work charging way less just to get work. 

We don't all send money to Mexico or are struggling to survive. It's everybody up the ladder that takes advantage of us drywall guys because they think our job is so easy which it is not. Greedy people ever since the recession came awhile back.

Sorry did not mean to rant and rave but I would like to state that not all of us fit into that "cheap mexican" stereotype.


----------



## floatking (Feb 2, 2012)

shoulders seem on point in San Antonio now. flats are flat and joints, well they are joints and you have to widen them out a bit.


----------



## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

moore said:


> National LW on factory trusses 24 oc..But the last house I did had stick built trusses 16 oc with the same high shoulders ..
> 
> It's a weak board...


this is starting to make me mad ....thinking about standing the sheets up and using butt+board on my seams :blink:


----------



## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

floatking said:


> Also the Mexicans work more and get paid the same as everyone else as long as they are professional like the guys we have known for years. They don't demand much in terms of lunch times and going home before the work for the day is done. I am Mexican and my father and I run our own drywall business and understand that people have bills to pay and families to feed and it is not illegals driving the labor costs down. I have seen the cutting down from all sides of the business. Ranging from General Contractors not wanting to pay anybody much to white, black and brown folks that don't know how to work charging way less just to get work.
> 
> We don't all send money to Mexico or are struggling to survive. It's everybody up the ladder that takes advantage of us drywall guys because they think our job is so easy which it is not. Greedy people ever since the recession came awhile back.
> 
> Sorry did not mean to rant and rave but I would like to state that not all of us fit into that "cheap mexican" stereotype.


As a fellow Texan I can say that outright most of what you are saying is complete and total BS. 

Tape and bed is 99.999999% hispanic now in texas because they do it CHEAP. Hanging is almost as bad with most people wanting to pay $16 hr to their TOP guys. 

Im not saying ALL of them do bad work, but the majority of them do. Even the good ones hardly ever nut up and charge what say a white man would charge. Saw a fantastic taper just here recently working for $14 an hour. WTF. This guy was doing top dollar work.. theres the problem. Theres one in the company I work for who hired on fairly green and has since become a full fledged mechanic/journeyman, wont nut up and get a raise because he is "scared because he is illegal". So now you got a guy working for $13 pumping out top notch work. Theres a line when "cheap mexican sterotype" becomes a hell of a lot more than a stereotype, we passed that up a long time ago.

And if you think this has anything to do with "the recession a while back" you are either green or stupid. Im a second generation drywaller like yourself, things went south in the 80s. With cheap mexican labor. Not targeting you or your race, but defending illegals and hiring them is ludicrous IDGAF how "professional" they are or seem. Ive got quite a few illegal friends doing what I do living where I live, but at the end of the day they know where I stand on the issues.

When I have to hire on guys for my own jobs I THROUGHLY look into their "paperwork". You gotta be legal to empty a gondola on my job. Or ill do it my damn self. 

Rant over. Been getting a lot of godawful certainteed board lately. Almost ALL of them 47 7/8" . :furious: tapers love the huge rolled edges too!!


----------



## FAB (May 6, 2014)

wow i just want to thank everyone for this thread and pics. Lately i have been like WTF when checking my recessed joints with a 10" knife. Lately they have been rocking like humped butts on each end of the recess and i could not figure out why. I was thinking maybe i was overfilling my joints but i even tried sanding one spot down all the way to the tape and it was still rocking . Im like huh,maybe bad framing. Nope. I didnt know about high shoulders til now and lately they have been getting really bad. Just happened to start getting really bad when my building supply started selling certainteed easy-lite. 

What do you guys do to correct for this?


----------



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Bust them out, that's about all you can do.


----------

