# Sheetrock "Green Top"



## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

We have been using this compound forever, and in conjunction with a Porter Cable sander for the last 12-14 years. 

About a year ago we came across a job where the sander put more of a "polish" on the compound during the sanding. It would smoothen it, but looking across it in the light it would have a shine and not the normal dull finish. You could also see the layers of the compound much more than I can ever recall, like each layer had a slightly different color. You could also feel a slight level difference at these layering lines.

We really have changed nothing. Still use 120 grit and still put the compound as we also have. Still using the same sanding pads we always have also.

The problem is, every job since then has been the same, even very small jobs.

I used to get a whole house out of a single sanding pad, now I have to change 3 times or else the "polishing" gets very bad.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Has the composition of the compound changed?


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Slightly different topic, but my last order of sheetrock total "black top" has changed to a rich yellow/cream colour, I presumed it was just more dye added but it's a lot harder finish and harder to sand, my last house I used twice as many sanding disc's and took longer, P!sses me right off, if they are going to change our product they can at least tell us, or market it as a different product for us to try. I liked the old stuff thats why I buy it...Not any more, if I wanted to buy cr*p I would buy it but now I'll be looking for something that suits me better.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Kiwiman said:


> Slightly different topic, but my last order of sheetrock total "black top" has changed to a rich yellow/cream colour, I presumed it was just more dye added but it's a lot harder finish and harder to sand, my last house I used twice as many sanding disc's and took longer, P!sses me right off, if they are going to change our product they can at least tell us, or market it as a different product for us to try. I liked the old stuff thats why I buy it...Not any more, if I wanted to buy cr*p I would buy it but now I'll be looking for something that suits me better.


Maybe they have done a little something different across the board in all their compounds? Sounds fishy.

The green top now reminds me of a LaFarge compound we used years ago called Classic Gold (I think). We finished an entire two story house with this stuff and the Porter Cable would not touch it. 10 minutes with a new pad and it was shot. Hand sanding would cut the compound pretty good so we hand sanded the whole house.

Same thing with the Sheetrock stuff now. A hand sponge sanding block sands it very easily, but the machine does not. On a small project we are on now we took one step back and tried the "purple top", a mid weight compound. That got glossy while sanding as well.

I suppose it could be something other than the compound, but we are doing nothing different.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Maybe your sanding pad has changed if it sands fine with the sponge block. The main reason I don't use the purple top is it's too white and is harder to find imperfections (until the paints on).
Another new problem with the "black top" is it doesn't blend well where you cross a horizontal with an already dry vertical which the old formula was good for, and it's hard to blend with the board when sanding, I'm still p!ssed about it...I want the old stuff back The only good thing was it was hard to over sand it. With any luck it might have just been a bad batch and sheetrock have said - oh! just send it down to that little sh!thole next to Australia...no one will know!


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

I use USG's AP (Green) for texture when using my hopper. I usually buy from home depot. Once bought from Lowes and one time from a Do it BEST and I swear it was topping compound. Whenever I know I'm gonna shoot texture I make sure I get that box from HD. I wonder if they have different prices or cut deals to give specific stores a bad batch for less money.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

USG adds WAY too much air to their mud. You are buying a lot of air to make the 4.5 gallons. I don't like their Plus 3 at all. And the green AP shrinks too much. And is brittle when dry. Not good. Have you noticed it flaking off when you leave a chunk? It sticks OK, just brittle when thicker.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Kiwiman said:


> Maybe your sanding pad has changed if it sands fine with the sponge block.


That is quite possible. We have always used the PC sanding pads, mainly 120 grit. Maybe they changed.

One other thing is shortly before we noticed this happening, our old PC vac finally gave out after 12 years of service, so we replaced with another PC vac. It sucks very well. We just can't figure out why this would make a difference in how it sands.

We are keeping our minds open to every possibility.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

They change the mud constantly trying to save a buck here and there. We've all experienced bad mud. I know, we've talked about it in a few threads. That's probably your issue. Just a bad lot of mud. Though I only use ap for 1st coats, I haven't had any issues with mine in a while.

I remember when I got a horrible pallet of +3 in 04, there was grey mold in every box. Haven't bought a box since.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Was talking to my supplier today, according to Usg the only thing that has changed is the dye, I've used enough of it to know it is a lot harder finish now, don't get me wrong it's still good mud but it doesn't suit me is all.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

*Hey sheetrock guy!!!*

Hmmm... the sheetrock guy is strangely quiet. I wonder if he just shows up when theres some marketing that needs to be done?


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

*sheetrock guy's head pokes out of closet*


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

It's getting downright annoying now. Sanded out a small job today and it took twice as long as it should have. 2k feet of board and I went through a 120 grit pad and TWO 100 grit pads. I haven't used a 100 grit in ages, and it used to take an hour or so to "break it in" where I felt comfortable I wasn't scratching at all. Put one on today and it felt like it was shot in a 1/2 hour, and went straight to polishing the compound. Hell of a shine when looking into the light. And it wasn't cutting the high spots, just smoothening out and polishing the slight rolls.

I was so frustrated I called USG on the way home. Of course I got the answer I expected, no changes to the compound.

Could be the wand or vacuum I suppose. But it just doesn't make sense that either or those two devices could cause a problem of this nature.

Pads? It seems everyone would be bitching about it.

We'll figure it out eventually.

Thanks for letting me vent


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

where are you from? you should put that in your profile.

I would be willing to send you one of my pads for the sander. Hell, I'll send you a "broke in" one just to eliminate that variable. If it sounds like something worth it, gimmie a shout.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Whitey97 said:


> where are you from? you should put that in your profile.
> 
> I would be willing to send you one of my pads for the sander. Hell, I'll send you a "broke in" one just to eliminate that variable. If it sounds like something worth it, gimmie a shout.


I've already been looking at All-Wall for different pads. May order some just because. Also, we have already ordered the Sheetrock VLS mud for the next project. We'll see how that goes. On top of all that, the day we sand the next project we will have a friend of ours sander/vac to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the offer though (and I changed my profile too)


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Well, as you know, feel free to ask anything. I will usually always give my opinion! ha


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

OK, we have tried three separate compounds now. Albeit all USG, but three different. Green, purple and brown top all acting the same. Still getting the same shiny surface when finished sanding.

I think perhaps I can strike the compound off the list of problem causers.

Sanding disc might be the next to experiment with.

The problem did roughly start about the same time (take or give a couple jobs) we replaced the PC vacuum. Hard to understand how that might cause the problem though.

Oh well, onward.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> OK, we have tried three separate compounds now. Albeit all USG, but three different. Green, purple and brown top all acting the same. Still getting the same shiny surface when finished sanding.
> 
> I think perhaps I can strike the compound off the list of problem causers.
> 
> ...


Hey are on Ice Shanty also ?


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Hey are on Ice Shanty also ?


LOL, I was wondering if that was you too


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## kgphoto (Dec 21, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> The problem did roughly start about the same time (take or give a couple jobs) we replaced the PC vacuum. Hard to understand how that might cause the problem though. .


Replaced the vacuum? Perhaps it is spinning at a different RPM? To fast so it burnishes or burns the mud. Hand sanding will be slower speed.

Maybe the moisture or temperature change is affecting your mud's drying time, so it isn't dry enough. Try waiting one or two days more before sanding. Put a blob on the wall at home so you don't hold up a job.

Just a couple ideas. I don't use that sander at all.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

kgphoto said:


> Replaced the vacuum? Perhaps it is spinning at a different RPM? To fast so it burnishes or burns the mud. Hand sanding will be slower speed.
> 
> Maybe the moisture or temperature change is affecting your mud's drying time, so it isn't dry enough. Try waiting one or two days more before sanding. Put a blob on the wall at home so you don't hold up a job.
> 
> Just a couple ideas. I don't use that sander at all.


The wand of the system controls the speed of the disc, and I normally sand on settings 3 through 5. I've tried all the ranges and speed doesn't seem to be the issue.

The problem has persisted from early spring this past year, all the way through the summer and now into the colder winter months. We've gone through the extremes of all seasons. No difference.

We've also sanded very soon after the last coat (basically as soon as it's dry) and have waited up to 5 days. Again, the same results.

It really seems to b the rotary action. Hand sanding is no problem, but as soon as that sanding disc starts spinning the compound glosses up.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

Have you tried different types of paper?


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Have you tried different types of paper?



Not yet, but we intend to.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> Not yet, but we intend to.


edit


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I use screens for my pc sanders, I get them from all-wall, they are not listed in the catalog, they are from johnson abrasive, the sell a backer pad for them, but i use them over worn out pc pads, they also sell a differant washer to go between the screen and the pad, but I use the aluminum one that comes with the pc, in other words, I just use these screen pads over a worn out pc pad, no other changes. 

I have found this to be the answer (for me) to eliminate the "shine" problem you are describing, they also completely eliminate the "swirl" problem.

If your interested in them, just call all-wall and tell em you want the johnson abrasive screens for the pc and they can hook you up. BTW they ar about 1/2 the price of pads

I have three pc sanders and have been using them since 1976, If I can help you out on this, send me a pm and I'll send you my phone number


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I use screens for my pc sanders, I get them from all-wall, they are not listed in the catalog, they are from johnson abrasive, the sell a backer pad for them, but i use them over worn out pc pads, they also sell a differant washer to go between the screen and the pad, but I use the aluminum one that comes with the pc, in other words, I just use these screen pads over a worn out pc pad, no other changes.
> 
> I have found this to be the answer (for me) to eliminate the "shine" problem you are describing, they also completely eliminate the "swirl" problem.
> 
> ...


Are there different grades or grits to the screens? If so, what do you recommend?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> Are there different grades or grits to the screens? If so, what do you recommend?


I keep 150 and 180 grit on my truck, I find the 180 most to my liking, you can get up 225 grit I believe.

I need to correct my eariler post, I have been using the pc since 1996, not 76,, sorry bout that one, too many homebrews.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Green top? Ya Never know what your gettin til you open the lid!


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Wow! Way to bring back an old thread!:thumbsup:






















Green top is like a box of chocolates.....




You never know what you're gonna get!!:whistling2:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Some threads just never die! But, Moore has a good point.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> Some threads just never die! But, Moore has a good point.


So far I've found 4 different mixes with 3 different colors. 
It all depends on what plant It comes from . Limestone differs in color in different areas but why all the different formulas /mixes ? 

At'least Black top is the same crap no matter where it comes from.:whistling2:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I tried the Ultra Light Weight mud the other day. Real creamy. Puffs up in the bucket when mixing. Not as soft as blue top light weight. Not real sure what to think yet.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

moore said:


> So far I've found 4 different mixes with 3 different colors.
> It all depends on what plant It comes from . Limestone differs in color in different areas but why all the different formulas /mixes ?
> 
> At'least Black top is the same crap no matter where it comes from.:whistling2:


I'm speaking of the A/P compounds.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> I tried the Ultra Light Weight mud the other day. Real creamy. Puffs up in the bucket when mixing. Not as soft as blue top light weight. Not real sure what to think yet.


This It Tim? I Drove all over the city this evening looking for a certain mud. [Didn't find it:furious:] I did run across this lime green lid ..I was like damn!! That's what Tim was talkin bout... Never seen before..I'll give it a try tomorrow putting a 3rd coat on bead.

The bucket seems a little heavier than the plus 3 ..So I'm guessing It's denser than the plus 3?


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

It is weird mud. When you start mixing it, it sort of puffs up. Takes very little water to thin it. It really won't fit in one bucket once you start mixing. But it is real creamy and smooth. Feathers out real nice. Runs through the boxes great. Except for the color of the lid, I really liked it. Anxious to hear your take on it.


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

the only bad thing with the ultra lightweight compound is that it takes forever to dry......


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

drywall guy158 said:


> the only bad thing with the ultra lightweight compound is that it takes forever to dry......


and its soft and it don't have much glue and...


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I went through a pallet of the lightweight (lime) when it first came to my area. I liked it. Its not really made for stringing or bead but it doesnt shrink like the green top. The big draw back for me was the price. Its around 5 bucks a pail more then green. i didnt have any drying issues but it was during the summer months with plenty of fans and a dehumid. Another draw back would be if you are going to use a PC. Not a big deal but to get a good sand you may need to try a few different pad and paper combos. New 150 grit takes the mud off too fast and 180 the paper wears out too fast.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Yea, I think they skimped on the glue so it won't stick and it falls off and they get sued. I bet that is how they make it. Makes perfect sense to me. So how can you tell there is less glue in it? When dry, I scraped a chunk off the wall and it took the paper off sort of like green all purpose, blue lite, black all purpose and light blue lite. I had the heat on 64° and all of it was dry the next day. As far as price, all Gold Bond and USG materials are over priced. So there is my little rant. Sorry.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Have to agree with Tim here
Less glue than mean green, but still sticks well. Love using it with Fibafuse, don't like sticking bead with it, coats really nice. Just don't thin it much.

Be interesting to see what Moore thinks:whistling2:


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