# Attension;Columbia Tools;the 12"box



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

website Columbia quote 
Columbia makes a flat box that makes the drywaller's job easier. The flat box helps the drywaller to fill in the gaps in both horizontal and butt joints. The flat boxes come in 7-, 8-, 10- and 12-inch sizes. While the 12-inch box is intended for finishing, you can use the smaller boxes for loading coats. 

Read more: Columbia Drywall Taping Tools | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6385960_columbia-drywall-taping-tools.html#ixzz13iZld7zV
who,what,when,where,and why,the history of the boxes please.I know ames started it all,how did the sizes come about.you state here and in your pdf manual on this link that a 12" box is for finishing.You state in the pdf that 
7(8) -10-12 when a good finish is required
8-10 to cheap out on mud,but aesthetically not pleasing to eyes
10-12 you guys call this the accepted standard,saying its satisfactory(ok)[skim by hand ,perfect:whistling2:]
who came up with this,why not a 11" box ,or 13 "box,why not a 6" box,its a 5 " bevell
just got to be flat and level,,,,,ya know
forget what and where,just when ,who and why
​


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2 coats and skim or are you forgetting a step?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

hey it's their site ,Columbia Tools,ask them,don't shoot the messenger,click link,read pdf manual and their web page


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

here you go mudstar http://www.columbiatools.com/media/pdf/manual.pdf


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> website Columbia quote ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good question.

In design, whether it's product design, service design, program design, ....... design, there can be a little problem called 'continuity'. It's about how things that were done in the past can 'trap' our thinking into believing that 'what was and is', is THe ABsolute TRuth. We become unquestioning about it.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> here you go mudstar http://www.columbiatools.com/media/pdf/manual.pdf



Again I'm saying 2 coats and skim.

Do you need details on what tool I use for what step?

Application methods are trade secrets aren't they............

Instructed processes are great but aren't written in stone or are they productive in the variable environments such as humidity temperature and or material used in this environments.

If I was to shoot the messenger you'd be shot now wouldn't you......


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

try explaining again,it's not about methods,it's why these box sizes.they must of been field testing them along time ago right.what made them start with the 7 then finish with a 12.there must of been some type of testing going on right.
maybe the bevell was deeper,wider,smaller,who knows,back then


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> try explaining again,it's not about methods,it's why these box sizes.they must of been field testing them along time ago right.what made them start with the 7 then finish with a 12.there must of been some type of testing going on right.
> maybe the bevell was deeper,wider,smaller,who knows,back then


 When Ames was the only game in town, Wallboard and Goldblait made a 7" broad knife. Reason being, that a 6" would not get all the mud and an 8" would not set the tape back into the bevel. The 7 box was designed to FILL the bevel with mud after the tape joint. (what hand finishers call "back-skimming"). The 8 was to bed with and the 10 to finish. The 12 was for butts and bad joints.

I buy an 8" blue steel knife and cut a 1/2" off each side these days (with snipes)for my tapeing knife, cause they don't make a 7" anymore.

I'd suggest trying it, but since I don't know Jack, what would be the point??


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

thanks for the input capt.but here's a Columbia web page,their words,not mine.not arguing with you here,and I'm sorry for the tragedy in your family.I remember the bevell's were different back then,the edge was more round,made like a "V" when bevell's put together,now their more square like.maybe this went into their thinking....just wondering,how,why?
their web site
*Flat Box*

<li id="jsArticleStep1"> Columbia makes a flat box that makes the drywaller's job easier. The flat box helps the drywaller to fill in the gaps in both horizontal and butt joints. The flat boxes come in 7-, 8-, 10- and 12-inch sizes. While the 12-inch box is intended for finishing, you can use the smaller boxes for loading coats. As you apply pressure to the handle, joint compound is dispensed. Wheels on the bottom of the box allow it to glide smoothly on the wall while the trailing end of the flat box contains an adjustable finishing blade that smooths the joint compound as you dispense it. 

Read more: Columbia Drywall Taping Tools | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6385960_columbia-drywall-taping-tools.html#ixzz14ARvdcQk​


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> I remember the bevell's were different back then,the edge was more round,made like a "V" when bevell's put together,now their more square like


Well depending on the brand of board your using.....



2buckcanuck said:


> Columbia makes a flat box that makes the drywaller's job easier. The flat box helps the drywaller to fill in the gaps in both horizontal and butt joints.
> 
> The flat boxes come in 7-, 8-, 10- and 12-inch sizes. While the 12-inch box is intended for finishing, you can use the smaller boxes for loading coats.


 Its a preference which boxes you use. 

Like the Capt says 7 fills the bevel and he uses 8 then 10 to finish. 

I in the other hand I use 7 to fill bevel then 10 & 12 to finish and you know why.

You run your 10 twice over your tape and finish with 12 don't you?

That's different methods as far as I see...............Is it not?


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## ColumbiaTechSupport (Aug 13, 2010)

I believe Ames used the sizes of the hand knives to decide on how to size their Flat boxes. The reason we went with the same sizes was because that was what worked, we added the 8" Box because most of our customers wanted it over the 7" size so that they would have an easier time running the 10".


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

yeap,I'm skipping the 7,dd ten while wet,saves a day and a sand/scrap,then 12".....except on spray ceilings on my own jobs.off to watch the leafs lose:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> I believe Ames used the sizes of the hand knives to decide on how to size their Flat boxes. The reason we went with the same sizes was because that was what worked, we added the 8" Box because most of our customers wanted it over the 7" size so that they would have an easier time running the 10".


thank you,thank you,thank you,was thinking about that at work today.they kept them around the sizes of trowels/knifes.to be able to market them better.
so I asked a dumb question,should of been obvious.:whistling2:
I'll admit I'm not the mechanical type:yes:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> yeap,I'm skipping the 7,dd ten while wet,saves a day and a sand/scrap,then 12".....except on spray ceilings on my own jobs.off to watch the leafs lose:yes:



There's no time saved 2buck your still walking the wall twice the same as me running the 7 then the 10


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Oh and besides that your wrong coating over wet first coat 

JS


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

leaf losing 1-0
yeah there is,ist time round your just getting the mud on,its,go go go,2nd pass is like running the 12",not going through as much mud,less time going back to your supply,looks good too,shows where high shoulders are on 2nd run too,you do butts on 2nd pass though ,not on 1st.
use to 7 one day
10 the next
12" the 3rd
thats three days drying and boxing,new way only 2 days.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> you do butts on 2nd pass though ,not on 1st.
> use to 7 one day


I do butts 1st day on the job


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm not saying my way is the way to do it,just saying this is how we do it,someone wants to try it fine,I came from the days when they would pre fill with durabond,put metal bead on,bed that with durabond,scrap few hours later,the mud was a bitch to sand,was full of porosity,shrunk like crazy,so when a guy ran a 10" (after the 7)they would chase with a wiping knife to pull out the porosity .don't laugh,I was the newbie back then,did what you were told.
now with better materials (muds)etc.....was thinking one day,why chase with knife,just run over with box again.lot of guys doing that from what I see,they just keep going over it till it looks good.What I'm doing different is just waiting 10 to 15 minutes before I run them again.as the mud sits on the wall for that time,it starts to show where the bad areas/shoulders etc....are
leafs losing 3 - 0....they suck:furious:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

since i can hyjack my own thread mudstar,and your a hour 1 1/2 down the road.when you do a house that has painted ceilings,do you guys get a certain amount more penny's on the house.or do you add up the square of the ceilings,and charge XX amount of that


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> since i can hyjack my own thread mudstar,and your a hour 1 1/2 down the road.when you do a house that has painted ceilings,do you guys get a certain amount more penny's on the house.or do you add up the square of the ceilings,and charge XX amount of that


19c added to ceilings only


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> 19c added to ceilings only


ok,thanks,was talking to the 'you know who guy' today.said to start doing that,plus our .5 raise that started in september...wow


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> I believe Ames used the sizes of the hand knives to decide on how to size their Flat boxes. The reason we went with the same sizes was because that was what worked, we added the 8" Box because most of our customers wanted it over the 7" size so that they would have an easier time running the 10".


 Thats whay I own a 8" fat-boy,,, cause you guys don't make a 7" fat-boy. If you made one, I'd use it instead of an 8".

If I had my preferance, I'd tape it, bed it with a 7", then skim it with a 10. 

But since all 7" boxes are regular boxes, you can't get anywhere without haveing to re-fill. Thats why I use a 8" fat-boy, not cause I think its better than a 7, just can't get a 7 in a fat-boy.( I own a 7 box, cause DM advertises it AS holding more mud,,, they LIED). I use it these days, if I feel that I need to fill the bevel before I bed. Thats like once or twice a year, depending on the weather and the humidity.

I have always used the smallest tool for the job. When I hand finish, I use a 4 in the corners, a 5 to tape with, a 6 and 8 on beads, and an 8 and 10 on the flats. The only thing I use a 12 for is butt joints that are "proud".

Funny how folks look at jobs,,, when I see a job that is run with BIG tools/knives I figure the guys that are doing it are not real confident in their ability to finish.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Funny how folks look at jobs,,, when I see a job that is run with BIG tools/knives I figure the guys that are doing it are not real confident in their ability to finish.


I must be feeling super insecure when I break out my homemade 36" bull float with handles welded on. Thank goodness I don't have to do it very often, or I'd be suicidal.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> ok,thanks,was talking to the 'you know who guy' today.said to start doing that,plus our .5 raise that started in september...wow


.5c what!


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