# Strait-Flex Vs No-Coat



## Hambone

Does anyone use Mid-Flex3 or Wide-Flex4 made by Strait-Flex? I see the cost is a lot less but would like to know if it works as well as No-Coat Ultra-Flex 325 or 450.


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## McDusty

the plastic of the 'no-coat' is to thick. i do not like the stuff, the name alone is misleading, 'no-coat' pfffft. it's easier to make a straight line because it's so stiff. it's also harder to cut.

i like flex 4. it does the same job as the 'no-coat' but at almost half the price and it's easier to work with in my opinion. 

i hate straight flex original.


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## Lloydnz

I have used both. and agree with mcdusty. m3 is much superior.


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## silverstilts

The problem with straight flex products are they are harder to work with they have a tendency to pucker away from the wall. You think you have it all wiped down against the wall only to come back after it drys to find out it has pulled away in spots. So what if the No coat is a little thicker, it works way better and so much superior. If you have a problem cutting it buy a new pair of snips:blink:... the No Coat will go on much straighter and because it has a paper face over the vinyl strips it will bond much better.


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## Saul_Surfaces

silverstilts said:


> The problem with straight flex products are they are harder to work with they have a tendency to pucker away from the wall. You think you have it all wiped down against the wall only to come back after it drys to find out it has pulled away in spots. So what if the No coat is a little thicker, it works way better and so much superior. If you have a problem cutting it buy a new pair of snips:blink:... the No Coat will go on much straighter and because it has a paper face over the vinyl strips it will bond much better.


I agree. Whenever I see houses that have moved, there's always some straightflex in them that has pulled off the wall. Because there's no paper face for the mud to bond to on the straightflex, it pulls out of the joints a lot easier. It makes my job a lot easier patching (I dig out the old tape before patching), but doesn't instill any confidence for adhesion down the road. I didn't tape the houses originally, but the GC that built them supplies separate taping and topping compound, so they were likely taped with the right stuff. zoom-a-flex might be an option if a person needed something thinner than No-Coat. I've seen that in a few houses that moved, and it stood up good.


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## Hambone

silverstilts said:


> The problem with straight flex products are they are harder to work with they have a tendency to pucker away from the wall. You think you have it all wiped down against the wall only to come back after it drys to find out it has pulled away in spots. So what if the No coat is a little thicker, it works way better and so much superior. If you have a problem cutting it buy a new pair of snips:blink:... the No Coat will go on much straighter and because it has a paper face over the vinyl strips it will bond much better.


Silver,
the tape I am talking about has a paper face as well. This stuff looks just like No-Coat but is made by Strait-Flex. In my area No-Coat is like 60.00 a roll and Strait-Flex is like 45.00 a roll. If this stuff works as well at 25% less money I want to try it. I do know what you mean about some of the stuff with out paper though, it is hard to fold and tuff to work with if you are new at it.


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## silverstilts

Then I haven't seen that yet at least out of the box, No coat I can still buy for a little less than 45 per roll still expensive when compared to paper faced bead, but sometimes you just have to use it.


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## McDusty

here No Coat 450 is $99/roll. $1/foot. insanity.

And to clarify, i don't mean that no-coat is hard to cut, i mean it's harder to work with and awkward to handle.


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## 2buckcanuck

Hambone said:


> Silver,
> the tape I am talking about has a paper face as well. This stuff looks just like No-Coat but is made by Strait-Flex. In my area No-Coat is like 60.00 a roll and Strait-Flex is like 45.00 a roll. If this stuff works as well at 25% less money I want to try it. I do know what you mean about some of the stuff with out paper though, it is hard to fold and tuff to work with if you are new at it.


are you talking the one with the black measure lines on the face.if so it's ok.takes a lot less mud to coat it,it's best used on inside 45's only.The other ,no coat (pure white,blue line on face) takes more mud to finish,better for repairing bad 45's (gaps,crooked)better for outside 45's if need be.and it has one foot measure increments on the back side for cutting.we get both supplied to us,I would give the no coat just a bit more of a edge.but not by much


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## PrairrieDogExpress

I use SF original with holes. You shouldn't have any issues if you use it correctly.


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## jmr

It's Aight. The paper flange on it doesn't lay down very well but otherwise its good. Doesn't work as well as no coat in outside offsets or 90s though cuz the edge is more rounded. Don't forget no coats little brother, level line, its cheap.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Straight-flex new paper faced is their answer to level-line. works the same. It really is a nearly 100% copy of level-line. Since straight-flex could not figure out how to bond their product to the wall, they either had to change or dissaper.


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## McDusty

it wasn't the straight flex, it was you.


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## taper71

Again McDusty I disagree with you. I way prefer No-coat over straight flex as from what everyone has already stated. No need to repeat the obvious to the professional. As for no coat prices I get it for $36 Canadian per box. $ 99 per box McDusty -sounds like your attitude gets you no respect at your suppliers too


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## jmr

McDusty said:


> it wasn't the straight flex, it was you.


reg straight flex black or green almost never holds on exterior offsets when the house settles. i use to use it all the time, plus did service work for awhile and the stuff just doesn't hold.

i use it like so: apply usg green mud right out of the box, fold straight flex, unfold to remove the extreme flex and lay it in.. wipe out edge while leaving mud behind it... it always cracked so i've said to hell with the stuff.. using hot mud never works either..

no coat just makes a better all around product, but you pay for it.


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## Capt-sheetrock

McDusty said:


> it wasn't the straight flex, it was you.


 The neat thing about beating your head against the wall McDusty,,,, is it feels SO good when you stop !!!


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## PrairrieDogExpress

jmr said:


> reg straight flex black or green almost never holds on exterior offsets when the house settles. i use to use it all the time, plus did service work for awhile and the stuff just doesn't hold.
> 
> i use it like so: apply usg green mud right out of the box, fold straight flex, unfold to remove the extreme flex and lay it in.. wipe out edge while leaving mud behind it... it always cracked so i've said to hell with the stuff.. using hot mud never works either..
> 
> no coat just makes a better all around product, but you pay for it.


if it always cracked then it was a problem with application.


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## McDusty

taper71 said:


> Again McDusty I disagree with you. I way prefer No-coat over straight flex as from what everyone has already stated. No need to repeat the obvious to the professional. As for no coat prices I get it for $36 Canadian per box. $ 99 per box McDusty -sounds like your attitude gets you no respect at your suppliers too



I'm a sub-contractor, i never supply material. I show up, do the job, and get out. Since it got slow out here, i put the other 3 tapers out of work and they had to move on. I'm the only one left because of my attitude and work ethic. On the job I just smile and nod at everyone even if they are a moron. Here, I can tell the morons what i think of them and their crappy advice. 

Capt. is good for nothing other than old fashioned one liners. eg: horse & buggy, why walk when you can crawl, and his latest, banging head against wall. for a guy that has an obscene amount of posts, he really says nothing at all. :yes:


straight flex or no coat, both do the job. and neither is going to hold a shifting/settling house together.


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## DSJOHN

Wow ,up until now I just brushed off most of your comments, but now I,ll let my opinion of you out here------ You are not the greatest taper of alltime[only in your head] ,not sure how many years you,ve got in this biz, but as not running a business and all that goes with it,your opinions mean nothing to me!!!!!!! The day your in the old goat category I hope 50 less talented young a-holes give you ****[you,ll deserve it]. My opinion of No-Coat vs the rest---No-Coat is far superior no matter the cost,just as paperfaced metal--I use both. My cost is made up in time and quality, My guess is you are world wide cause you dont last long in one place with you attitude. Answer us this--- Why dont you own your own business if your so good?


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## McDusty

oh i'm most certainly not the greatest. there are a lot of area's i could improve in. and i don't own my own business because i hate dealing with customers, worrying about getting paid, pricing jobs that i might not get, getting material and having the phone ring every 2 seconds. i just want to work and get the job done, get paid every 2 weeks based on how much i get done. 

why walk when you can bang your head against a horse and buggy.


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## DSJOHN

McDusty said:


> oh i'm most certainly not the greatest. there are a lot of area's i could improve in. and i don't own my own business because i hate dealing with customers, worrying about getting paid, pricing jobs that i might not get, getting material and having the phone ring every 2 seconds. i just want to work and get the job done, get paid every 2 weeks based on how much i get done.
> 
> why walk when you can bang your head against a horse and buggy.


Fair enough--you gave an honest answer,I give you credit when due!!


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## cazna

McDusty said:


> oh i'm most certainly not the greatest. there are a lot of area's i could improve in. and i don't own my own business because i hate dealing with customers, worrying about getting paid, pricing jobs that i might not get, getting material and having the phone ring every 2 seconds. i just want to work and get the job done, get paid every 2 weeks based on how much i get done.
> 
> why walk when you can bang your head against a horse and buggy.


 
Actually that is a fair enough comment, Self employment can and does have the headaches you point out McDusty, 13 years for me so i can understand why you feel that way, Its the waiting and hoping to get paid before 20th month that gets me, Always seem to but it can get close for sure, You seem to be on the super taper and flushers which do work, Ok not as well as some other expensive gear, But you keep your tool cost to a minimum and dont carry around a heap of gear, There is some smarts in that, Its not really for me as im a tool whore and like to mix things up a bit but I can understand why you work this way, KISS keep it simple stupied is great advice.

And as for No coat Vs straightflex, No Coats my fav.


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## PrairrieDogExpress

why walk when you can bang your head against a horse and buggy.
:icon_lol::bangin:

hahahaha


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## Capt-sheetrock

Okay MCdusty,,, you don't like my one liners,, 

here ya go then,,,

Straight-flex is NOT a paper product,, it does not adhere to drywall mud, even if you use the glue they make to add to the mud. Nor does it adhere with hot-mud (its plastic based). Even if you cover the edges with ap and tape, it will STILL turn loose of the drywall.

Level-line and the new and improved straight-flex has paper on it. The paper will react with the ap and bond to the board.

If this is not enough LINES for ya, just let me know, and I will elaberate abit more,,,,, okay????:thumbsup:


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## Bevelation

Elaborate.


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## Tim0282

No-Coat in the sticks is the best! Nine and ten feet. Fold them backwards and they are the absolute best for flat angles! I don't care the cost! Straght Flex doesn't hold a candle to them. And neither does the No-Coat in the box.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Tim0282 said:


> No-Coat in the sticks is the best! Nine and ten feet. Fold them backwards and they are the absolute best for flat angles! I don't care the cost! Straght Flex doesn't hold a candle to them. And neither does the No-Coat in the box.


 I agree with that Tim.:thumbsup:

rutt row,,, another one-liner.:whistling2:


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## Tim0282

:rockon:


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## Tim0282

Bevelation said:


> Elaborate.


For sure!


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## Capt-sheetrock

When I bid a job, I ask enough questions to know what kind of job they want and find out what they want to pay for it. If they want the best products, I bid it that way. If they want the cheapest price I bid it that way. If they are willing to pay a cpl more bucks per bead, they get paperfaced metal for 90's and no-coat beads(beads are stiff objects that come in certain lenghts) for offsets(in and out).If they want the cheapest price, they get metal beads and level-line(comes in a box, is not a stiff object like a bead).Since we voted for change, and they pulled the plug on the economy, I have not used paper-faced or no-coat, at all, just metal beads and level-line. BTW, for offset angles (outside) I lay a metal bead on the floor and bang it with a full bottle of water. They will spread out fine that way, just have to check a time or two till ya reach the desired "spread". A great way to use up any left over straight flex that is laying around. Under the stairwell or in bonus room closets that have that really sharp angle, so sharp that you keep cutting the tape trying to run it. Straight flex will stay put in there and your knife will not cut through it(its not paper,, shhhhhhsssss, don't tell anyone tho).


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## Capt-sheetrock

Heres a trick for metal beads. Ever run across a house where the framers did not rip a stud at 45 to fill in the gap of an outside offset corner??

Use hand drive 16's, sounds crazy, but a 16 will travel to the opposing side and catch that sud, kinda like criss-crossing.


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## Tim0282

Feeling fortunate, I price all the same and they get No-
Coat whether they want it or not. No matter if it is a house with ten beads or one with fifty. :wacko:


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## Capt-sheetrock

Tim0282 said:


> Feeling fortunate, I price all the same and they get No-
> Coat whether they want it or not. No matter if it is a house with ten beads or one with fifty. :wacko:


 I understand and I used to feel that way too. However I got over it. After I realized that most people really don't care, they just want the best price, I decided to give it to em,,, kinda my answer to the illeagal alien problem. Hey Americans can screw your job up just as good as Mexicans can. Not that I think using "lesser" quailty goods is a good idea, but hey, I sell a service, and IF you want crap, I can deliver it !!!!!!!!!

Glad to hear that you are hanging in the high-end. When I have that opportunity, I do also. However, when I don't, I will deliver the crap to those that ASK for it to be delivered.

Works for me anyway, I stay busy.


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## PrairrieDogExpress

Capt-sheetrock said:


> When I bid a job, I ask enough questions to know what kind of job they want and find out what they want to pay for it. If they want the best products, I bid it that way. If they want the cheapest price I bid it that way. If they are willing to pay a cpl more bucks per bead, they get paperfaced metal for 90's and no-coat beads(beads are stiff objects that come in certain lenghts) for offsets(in and out).If they want the cheapest price, they get metal beads and level-line(comes in a box, is not a stiff object like a bead).Since we voted for change, and they pulled the plug on the economy, I have not used paper-faced or no-coat, at all, just metal beads and level-line. BTW, for offset angles (outside) I lay a metal bead on the floor and bang it with a full bottle of water. They will spread out fine that way, just have to check a time or two till ya reach the desired "spread". A great way to use up any left over straight flex that is laying around. Under the stairwell or in bonus room closets that have that really sharp angle, so sharp that you keep cutting the tape trying to run it. Straight flex will stay put in there and your knife will not cut through it(its not paper,, shhhhhhsssss, don't tell anyone tho).


How much do you really save on a house by skimping on bead????? Compromising quality and speed for what? Maybe a one or two hundred bucks??? 
Please:bangin:

Its your buggy. Drive it the way you want:thumbsup:


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## Tim0282

I am fortunate I don't have to bid that tight. But somtimes that two hundred bucks is the difference in getting the job. This week I lost a 70,400.00 job to a guy an hour and a half away that bid 70,000.00. :2guns:


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## Capt-sheetrock

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> How much do you really save on a house by skimping on bead????? Compromising quality and speed for what? Maybe a one or two hundred bucks???
> Please:bangin:
> 
> Its your buggy. Drive it the way you want:thumbsup:


 No, I really don't have to "skimp" that much. 

However, if they WANT cheap,,, why should I EAT the differance in price???

I would rather take that cpl hundred bucks and spend it on my family than give it up to a cheap arse, just to prove a point that I no longer need to prove.

Your right, it is my buggy, and thats the way I drive it !!!!:thumbsup:


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## JustMe

capt-sheetrock said:


> but hey, i sell a service, and if you want crap, i can deliver it !!!!!!!!!


rofl!!!!!


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## moore

:thumbsup:there are 2 coats to no coat


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> :thumbsup:there are 2 coats to no coat


were suppose to coat it.....but it's called no coat:jester:


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## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> :thumbsup:there are 2 coats to no coat


 Did you count "attaching" it to the wall as the "first coat"?" If you did, then no-coat is three coats if you read the box it comes in.

So many coats, so little deffinition.


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## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Heres a trick for metal beads. Ever run across a house where the framers did not rip a stud at 45 to fill in the gap of an outside offset corner??
> 
> Use hand drive 16's, sounds crazy, but a 16 will travel to the opposing side and catch that sud, kinda like criss-crossing.


I staple those b!tches on, glass (oh no! I mentioned mesh tape!) and hot mud 'em. I'm with you on the crushing the 90's for 135 if I need too. It seems like I end up with more fill though.

Oh, and I think you'd find 2-7/8 drywall nails better for driving those on...the head is much bigger, and the shaft is narrower (although still much bigger than standard drywall nails)


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> No, I really don't have to "skimp" that much.
> 
> However, if they WANT cheap,,, why should I EAT the differance in price???
> 
> I would rather take that cpl hundred bucks and spend it on my family than give it up to a cheap arse, just to prove a point that I no longer need to prove.
> 
> Your right, it is my buggy, and thats the way I drive it !!!!:thumbsup:


if you want cheap @ gaudy . go to the tittie bar.


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## moore

SlimPickins said:


> I staple those b!tches on, glass (oh no! I mentioned mesh tape!) and hot mud 'em. I'm with you on the crushing the 90's for 135 if I need too. It seems like I end up with more fill though.
> 
> Oh, and I think you'd find 2-7/8 drywall nails better for driving those on...the head is much bigger, and the shaft is narrower (although still much bigger than standard drywall nails)


it works . i have to do it . framers don't care or don't know. which is it?? got to have meat to fasten to.


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## Cmoe

If you check out the "Mid Flex" or "Wide Flex" they also have a paper face. The difference is that the No-Coat's paper is saturated with latex and therefore sits on top of the mud and the perforations are absolutely just shy of worthless. The StraitFlex "Flex" products ARE cheaper and with only the front of the paper treated the backside can absorb mud and glue for a true bond. The diamond perfs on the edge are also WAY superior. A quick glance will tell you that alone. If you have never tried the "Flex" products and are comparing 325 to "Origianl" you are seriously missingn the boat. Honestly.


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## Cmoe

Saul_Surfaces said:


> I agree. Whenever I see houses that have moved, there's always some straightflex in them that has pulled off the wall. Because there's no paper face for the mud to bond to on the straightflex, it pulls out of the joints a lot easier. It makes my job a lot easier patching (I dig out the old tape before patching), but doesn't instill any confidence for adhesion down the road. I didn't tape the houses originally, but the GC that built them supplies separate taping and topping compound, so they were likely taped with the right stuff. zoom-a-flex might be an option if a person needed mething thinner than No-Coat. I've seen that in a few houses that moved, and it stood up good.


 
If you are comparing StraitFlex Original to 325 you are missing out on honestly one of the best and cheapest products on the market for any kind of off angle. The "Flex" line by StraitFlex is superior in many ways. No-Coat's paper is saturated with latex and therefore is not able to accept the mud and glue as well as it should. Also check out the perfs on the edge of the paper. What a joke. The Mid Flex and Wide Flex's paper face is treated seperately from the backside of the paper edges which has nothing except for the most perfect diamond perforations you have ever seen. This allows fir the mud and glue to absorb into the pores of the paper and creates a true bond. I have run into problems of my own with the "Original" but the "Flex" line is second to none.


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## Cmoe

DSJOHN said:


> Wow ,up until now I just brushed off most of your comments, but now I,ll let my opinion of you out here------ You are not the greatest taper of alltime[only in your head] ,not sure how many years you,ve got in this biz, but as not running a business and all that goes with it,your opinions mean nothing to me!!!!!!! The day your in the old goat category I hope 50 less talented young a-holes give you ****[you,ll deserve it]. My opinion of No-Coat vs the rest---No-Coat is far superior no matter the cost,just as paperfaced metal--I use both. My cost is made up in time and quality, My guess is you are world wide cause you dont last long in one place with you attitude. Answer us this--- Why dont you own your own business if your so good?


 
You should look into "Thin-Coat" by StraitFlex. If you love No-Coat and paper-metal you would love this. It is the best of both worlds.


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## 2buckcanuck

Cmoe said:


> If you are comparing StraitFlex Original to 325 you are missing out on honestly one of the best and cheapest products on the market for any kind of off angle. The "Flex" line by StraitFlex is superior in many ways. No-Coat's paper is saturated with latex and therefore is not able to accept the mud and glue as well as it should. Also check out the perfs on the edge of the paper. What a joke. The Mid Flex and Wide Flex's paper face is treated seperately from the backside of the paper edges which has nothing except for the most perfect diamond perforations you have ever seen. This allows fir the mud and glue to absorb into the pores of the paper and creates a true bond. I have run into problems of my own with the "Original" but the "Flex" line is second to none.


 try this thread here http://www.drywalltalk.com/f2/coating-no-coat-2167/
were way a head of you

the thin stuff your talking of seems pricey, home depot wants over a hundred bucks for it


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## sheetrock pete

2buckcanuck said:


> try this thread here http://www.drywalltalk.com/f2/coating-no-coat-2167/
> were way a head of you
> 
> the thin stuff your talking of seems pricey, home depot wants over a hundred bucks for it


 level line is the way to go


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## VANMAN

sheetrock pete said:


> level line is the way to go


Sore is!:thumbsup:


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## drywallninja

Cmoe said:


> If you check out the "Mid Flex" or "Wide Flex" they also have a paper face. The difference is that the No-Coat's paper is saturated with latex and therefore sits on top of the mud and the perforations are absolutely just shy of worthless. The StraitFlex "Flex" products ARE cheaper and with only the front of the paper treated the backside can absorb mud and glue for a true bond. The diamond perfs on the edge are also WAY superior. A quick glance will tell you that alone. If you have never tried the "Flex" products and are comparing 325 to "Origianl" you are seriously missingn the boat. Honestly.


So let me get this straight, you're saying original straight flex is a better product than 325 no coat?


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## Tim0282

You wouldn't catch me saying that...


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## boco

I am a big fan of original strait flex but not for off angles. Great for creating strait lines on 90s if the rock is off a bit. No coat is the best out there. They should call it 3 coat but if feathered right gives a perfect line. That and doesnt crack as often as strait flex of any type.


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## David Schwaiger

McDusty said:


> I'm a sub-contractor, i never supply material. I show up, do the job, and get out. Since it got slow out here, i put the other 3 tapers out of work and they had to move on. I'm the only one left because of my attitude and work ethic. On the job I just smile and nod at everyone even if they are a moron. Here, I can tell the morons what i think of them and their crappy advice.
> 
> Capt. is good for nothing other than old fashioned one liners. eg: horse & buggy, why walk when you can crawl, and his latest, banging head against wall. for a guy that has an obscene amount of posts, he really says nothing at all. :yes:
> 
> 
> straight flex or no coat, both do the job. and neither is going to hold a shifting/settling house together.


I know this post is old, but I absolutely agree. Respect is everything when it comes to being successful.


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