# Screw pops



## RocknRoller

Looking for the answer??? Is it the board shrinking when drying or is it the screw pushed out as the lumber is drying?


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## JohnnyMudd

I believe it to be the green lumber shrinking and twisting as it is drying out and the house settling.


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## cdwoodcox

Could be many different variables. treat every job the same and you won't ever figure it out.


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## moore

WET ROCK ,,, when rock dries out,, It shrinks.. the green lumber does not help matters at all,,


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## moore

RocknRoller said:


> Looking for the answer??? Is it the board shrinking when drying or is it the screw pushed out as the lumber is drying?


BOTH!! :furious: A bad combination ,,, good luck dude.. when you find the solution . let me know ,,, I'LL pay for the info..


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## boco

Get moisture meter. Use on rock and wood framing. Dont forget to check basement. After hung I also let rock sit for at least 3 days before taping. :thumbsup:


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## Quintana

Maybe its just the glue? I have never had this problem on a house with no glue. Only glued houses!!! Wait you don't glue every house...


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## moore

Quintana said:


> Maybe its just the glue? I have never had this problem on a house with no glue. Only glued houses!!! Wait you don't glue every house...


IT IS NOT THE GLUE. seen this problem in houses that were not glued.

wet rock / GREEN wood. blah blah blah,,,, kero wet heat/ propane VERY wet heat,, electric heat,,:thumbsup: GREEN LUMBER,, bottom line,,, that's the problem.
kiln dried my a$$.


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## Quintana

I say we set up a test lab. with glue, wet lumber, wet wood, wet rock, different heat and humidity levels. Someone needs to get to the bottom of this. Its about litigation time for someone.....


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## chris

Quintana said:


> I say we set up a test lab. with glue, wet lumber, wet wood, wet rock, different heat and humidity levels. Someone needs to get to the bottom of this. Its about litigation time for someone.....


all tests have been performed and the answer is STEEL STUD FRAMING:thumbup:


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## moore

chris said:


> all tests have been performed and the answer is STEEL STUD FRAMING:thumbup:


In a perfect world,,,, yes your right!!!


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## silverstilts

boco said:


> Get moisture meter. Use on rock and wood framing. Dont forget to check basement. After hung I also let rock sit for at least 3 days before taping. :thumbsup:


 :bangin: I don't think that contractors would go for that idea, perhaps in a perfect world they would , oh wait in a perfect world the wood would be kiln dried properly and used as soon as it came out of the kiln, instead of sitting in some yard somewhere soaking up moister again.


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## boco

silverstilts said:


> :bangin: I don't think that contractors would go for that idea, perhaps in a perfect world they would , oh wait in a perfect world the wood would be kiln dried properly and used as soon as it came out of the kiln, instead of sitting in some yard somewhere soaking up moister again.


 waiting a few days for rock to acclamate is a standard practicein my area. Only a hack would go ahead and tape something that is full of moisture. Now I also see why you guys need to prefill everything and have screw problems.


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## moore

boco said:


> waiting a few days for rock to acclamate is a standard practicein my area. Only a hack would go ahead and tape something that is full of moisture. Now I also see why you guys need to prefill everything and have screw problems.


IT takes way more than a few days,, Try a few months. g/c and h/o here 
will not wait that long.


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## boco

moore said:


> IT takes way more than a few days,, Try a few months. g/c and h/o here
> will not wait that long.


 WOW I guess ya dont have a moisture meter.


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## moore

No one will wait for the lumber to dry out here boco. It's push,,push,, push..
the way things are now. The painters/ trim guys push me more than the g/c.


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## boco

moore said:


> No one will wait for the lumber to dry out here boco. It's push,,push,, push..
> the way things are now. The painters/ trim guys push me more than the g/c.


 Now i am starting to put things together. Everyone is in a rush to get a paycheck which puts the shaft to the taper. The one thing you can do is at least have all sheetrock on site for a few days. Kinda like the floor guys do. I am sorry but I dont tape anything untill its ready to my standards to tape. **** the painter. When **** goes wrong he will be the first one to throw you under the bus.


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## silverstilts

boco said:


> Now i am starting to put things together. Everyone is in a rush to get a paycheck which puts the shaft to the taper. The one thing you can do is at least have all sheetrock on site for a few days. Kinda like the floor guys do. I am sorry but I dont tape anything untill its ready to my standards to tape. **** the painter. When **** goes wrong he will be the first one to throw you under the bus.


 It's not the matter of getting a check period it is a matter of pleasing the contractor.... I don't know what kind of contractors you work for but I am sure if you took a pole you may be one out of a hundred or more to have such an absurd line of thinking.... And by the way pre filling has nothing to do with popped screws it is all about prepping the rock, if you don't prefill what in the world are you worried about a few extra dry time for the lumber? Unless you put a dehumidifier or start and air exchange system up you can let it sit forever it will not change the moister content of anything because it will always soak up whatever moister is around it .


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## moore

I finished out a house 3 weeks ago h/o.. Nice home. High foyer,, Cathedral 
ceiling ,, 2200 ft. Left my scaffold for the h/o to use.. went by 2 days ago.
Nothings been painted. been raining off and on since i left 3 weeks ago.
I told the h/o to get the prime coat on asap when I walked out . No heat..
:hang:Sitting there soaking it up.


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## boco

moore said:


> I finished out a house 3 weeks ago h/o.. Nice home. High foyer,, Cathedral
> ceiling ,, 2200 ft. Left my scaffold for the h/o to use.. went by 2 days ago.
> Nothings been painted. been raining off and on since i left 3 weeks ago.
> I told the h/o to get the prime coat on asap when I walked out . No heat..
> :hang:Sitting there soaking it up.


 Once again tapers always get the shaft.


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## harvey randall

*pack o gum*



SlimPickins said:


> What occasion is that Harvey? The grand opening of a new pack of gum?:whistling2:
> 
> 
> I think about the oil on the screws too. So they don't rust?
> 
> ....that's why I wipe each screw off with a clean dry cloth before I put it on the end of the gun. :blink::whistling2:


 take a lot less then a pack of gum for me to crack a bottle of wild turkey.(new years eve night, holiday inn- coit and lbj-dallas texas- 6 of the best craftmen i new, at the time) huddled together in a parking garage toasting each other-no i was wrong it was ft. worth on the hyatt remodel, cross from the tandy center. any way that gum thing was pretty funny, smart ass. they say for no rust- why would they rust ? maybe not case hardened anymore? linseed is the oil, youll hear- personally i think its filth.(ask any hanger how many burrs he gets in his fingers these days, as apossed to ten years ago. the polymer that is flaxseed or linseed cohabits nicely with other oil bases, but dry wall mud AINT OIL BASE. just because a human can consume it, with no ill effect, dosent make it benign to our particular cause. 30 years ago u.s.g. got caught with oil on their corner bead. the mud dried and fell off. then the lawyers and litigation. ( any old guys remember) it was before the nylon-nulu- and ultra high polyethelene guides came into the industries.(although they could have 25 years earlier, but if it aint fixed, why break it) so like any metal against metal---piston in your car, rings then OIL then sleeve. i dont hang much these days thank god, whoever that is, but when i do my screws dont smell like a west texas oil field. harve












youll hear linseed oil bantered about. linseed is indeed a polymer and can harden into a solid in a oil base paint.-hence OIL base paint, but paint has a solvent that converts the valance of the oil to a solid. mud cant convert the oil, cant bond with it and cant wash it out. but the reps will tell you its water soluble. IT IS NOT>>>>>>>>> and if its not, its probably just filth from fabrication. when i hang i dump all screws in water buckets for degreaseing for starters. usg got caught with their pants down-30 years ago with the oily beed, and thay ACTED the part of innocence, but eventually paid. it was before they used nylon-nulu and ultra high density poly,jig guides it was metal to metal-like your piston engine, and you use what lube weight. the powers that be, since you can ingest linseed oil with no ill effect, that it some how will bond with mud, or what ever the filth they peddle is comprised of. donot believe me- take a small peak at the man behind the curtain.


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## Mudshark

Wow Harve - you must cringe when you see 2buck pouring his 30w engine oil on his bazooka.


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## SlimPickins

harvey randall said:


> take a lot less then a pack of gum for me to crack a bottle of wild turkey.(new years eve night, holiday inn- coit and lbj-dallas texas- 6 of the best craftmen i new, at the time) huddled together in a parking garage toasting each other-no i was wrong it was ft. worth on the hyatt remodel, cross from the tandy center. any way that gum thing was pretty funny, smart ass. they say for no rust- why would they rust ? maybe not case hardened anymore? linseed is the oil, youll hear- personally i think its filth.(ask any hanger how many burrs he gets in his fingers these days, as apossed to ten years ago. the polymer that is flaxseed or linseed cohabits nicely with other oil bases, but dry wall mud AINT OIL BASE. just because a human can consume it, with no ill effect, dosent make it benign to our particular cause. 30 years ago u.s.g. got caught with oil on their corner bead. the mud dried and fell off. then the lawyers and litigation. ( any old guys remember) it was before the nylon-nulu- and ultra high polyethelene guides came into the industries.(although they could have 25 years earlier, but if it aint fixed, why break it) so like any metal against metal---piston in your car, rings then OIL then sleeve. i dont hang much these days thank god, whoever that is, but when i do my screws dont smell like a west texas oil field. harve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youll hear linseed oil bantered about. linseed is indeed a polymer and can harden into a solid in a oil base paint.-hence OIL base paint, but paint has a solvent that converts the valance of the oil to a solid. mud cant convert the oil, cant bond with it and cant wash it out. but the reps will tell you its water soluble. IT IS NOT>>>>>>>>> and if its not, its probably just filth from fabrication. when i hang i dump all screws in water buckets for degreaseing for starters. usg got caught with their pants down-30 years ago with the oily beed, and thay ACTED the part of innocence, but eventually paid. it was before they used nylon-nulu and ultra high density poly,jig guides it was metal to metal-like your piston engine, and you use what lube weight. the powers that be, since you can ingest linseed oil with no ill effect, that it some how will bond with mud, or what ever the filth they peddle is comprised of. donot believe me- take a small peak at the man behind the curtain.


It's not Linseed oil on the screws I use, I use Linseed to give my woodworking projects a rub down. Nah, it smells more like WD-40...

I've wondered exactly WHY they coat the screws with oil...and at times I thought it was to wash the slivers away (doesn't work). It DOES make them go in nice and smooth though. Maybe you don't want your mud to bond to the screw, only the sides of the rock.....that way when the "kiln-dried" lumber shrinks, it doesn't take your mud with it? :whistling2:


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## moore

Sometimes ....I like a dirty greasy screw..


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## harvey randall

*pops*

does smell like machine oil- you are right, thats exactly what it is. because that product is contaminated. they in the industry try to say its linseed oil, was my point- because it is benign-its their excuss for not cleaning their product properly. thats why the shards of metal are still present for the hangers slivers. pure and simple. also the face paper is crap and rips while screwing and the crap board is exposed in the screw hole. the mud wont stick to raw gypsum (or what ever it is these days) i think more said it was a multitude of problems in a post and lord hes right. raw board needs prep of at least a vinegar acid to kill the ph. at least. dirty grasey screw thats a good one.


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## Mudshark

moore said:


> Sometimes ....I like a dirty greasy screw..


It took me a while to catch on but I got it now.


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## Mudman_lbc

One GC I work for does this : all ceilings have sound bar so they can be screwed and glued, also 12 " perimeter no screws as per truss mfgr. All walls glued and screwed . Exterior walls have 1" foam board so they too can be screwed and glued. After 24 hrs all wall screws are removed. Screw holes filled with con-fil , also we use the foam glue. Have NEVER had a screw pop because there is no screws to pop.:thumbup:


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## RocknRoller

Mudman_lbc said:


> One GC I work for does this : all ceilings have sound bar so they can be screwed and glued, also 12 " perimeter no screws as per truss mfgr. All walls glued and screwed . Exterior walls have 1" foam board so they too can be screwed and glued. After 24 hrs all wall screws are removed. Screw holes filled with con-fil , also we use the foam glue. Have NEVER had a screw pop because there is no screws to pop.:thumbup:



We are using similar method for last 7 months

Ceilings: foam glue in 4" stripes with 10" gaps (kind of like the Aussies ), no screws in 16" perimeter, butt boards, 3 dehumidifier for 48 hours minimum then hand tighten 3 screws in field.
So far no problems


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## SlimPickins

Mudman_lbc said:


> One GC I work for does this : all ceilings have sound bar so they can be screwed and glued, also 12 " perimeter no screws as per truss mfgr. All walls glued and screwed . Exterior walls have 1" foam board so they too can be screwed and glued. After 24 hrs all wall screws are removed. Screw holes filled with con-fil , also we use the foam glue. Have NEVER had a screw pop because there is no screws to pop.:thumbup:


I know it's regional, but how much does an application like this pay? Does it pay more than straight runnin' and gunnin'?

What's funny is that I've never been called back for a screw pop, and use nails at top and sole plates, and screws in the field. I'm curious to know what I'm doing differently, and there is no sarcasm intended in my comment.


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## chris

SlimPickins said:


> I know it's regional, but how much does an application like this pay? Does it pay more than straight runnin' and gunnin'?
> 
> What's funny is that I've never been called back for a screw pop, and use nails at top and sole plates, and screws in the field. I'm curious to know what I'm doing differently, and there is no sarcasm intended in my comment.


 New construction . We dont get called back for them but they do happen, just not enough too raise an eyebrow over.


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## moore

http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/nail_pops.html


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## cazna

moore said:


> http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/nail_pops.html


Thats was good, Really good, I saved it and now i finally get what your all on about with truss lift, Thats not common here, Im fact ive never heard of it or heard anyone talking about it.


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## DLSdrywall

Thanks moore i'd like to give that to the drywallers for my DWC They seems to think nails smashed with a sledge hammer is okay. They have nail pops and broken paper lol. With a quality driven society and supers and checkout guys getting anal about the quality you would think there'd be a "drywall standard"


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## moore

:whistling2:


DLSdrywall said:


> Thanks moore i'd like to give that to the drywallers for my DWC They seems to think nails smashed with a sledge hammer is okay. They have nail pops and broken paper lol. With a quality driven society and supers and checkout guys getting anal about the quality you would think there'd be a "drywall standard"


 you would think!:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

DLSdrywall said:


> Thanks moore i'd like to give that to the drywallers for my DWC They seems to think nails smashed with a sledge hammer is okay. They have nail pops and broken paper lol. With a quality driven society and supers and checkout guys getting anal about the quality you would think there'd be a "drywall standard"


Just so you don't feel alone DLS









You can tell them and tell them ,but......:blink:


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Just so you don't feel alone DLS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can tell them and tell them ,but......:blink:


 I guess they are to stupid to learn something new!! 

fckn animals!! sad!...just ....


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## DLSdrywall

2 houses ago the DWC had to give me 200 bucks because i spent 12 hours pre-filling because they had there "garage tapers" board my house


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## Mudshark

DLSdrywall said:


> 2 houses ago the DWC had to give me 200 bucks because i spent 12 hours pre-filling because they had there "garage tapers" board my house


I would say the contractor got off pretty lucky. Prefilling in my opinion should never be more than 2 hours. The rest you worked for 10 bucks an hour. :yes:

Just hope those boarders had to eat the 200.


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## fenez

Boco, is right a moister meter will tell you if the lumber and rock is ready for install, if a GC doesn't want to hear it just tell him that the come backs will be on him.


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## SlimPickins

harvey randall said:


> take a lot *less* then a pack of gum for me to crack a bottle of wild turkey.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## harvey randall

*screw pops*



SlimPickins said:


> I know it's regional, but how much does an application like this pay? Does it pay more than straight runnin' and gunnin'?
> 
> What's funny is that I've never been called back for a screw pop, and use nails at top and sole plates, and screws in the field. I'm curious to know what I'm doing differently, and there is no sarcasm intended in my comment.


 hey slim, maybe your lumber is comeing from a montana mill. air and kiln dryed both. air dry will take care of unbound moisture between the cell structure( an inexpensive way to get a start on the drying process) if you have the room and the inventory. bound moisture on the other hand is in the cell structure and needs heat to liberate it. maybe your guys got the good stuff. maybe you could poke around. and what kind of rock are you useing. harve


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## SlimPickins

harvey randall said:


> hey slim, maybe your lumber is comeing from a montana mill. air and kiln dryed both. air dry will take care of unbound moisture between the cell structure( an inexpensive way to get a start on the drying process) if you have the room and the inventory. bound moisture on the other hand is in the cell structure and needs heat to liberate it. maybe your guys got the good stuff. maybe you could poke around. and what kind of rock are you useing. harve


I dunno, our lumber has been pretty moist lately. Straight when you buy it off the stack, and bowed like a ****ens the next day. 

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I'm not doing all that much new construction any more :laughing: 

Honestly, I should bow out of the conversation because I'm not doing much production work at all these days...the occasional house here and there, but still no call-backs. I actually just got a call the other day from a builder who said he was up at a house I did last fall...after a long cold winter and a scorching summer, everything held up great (which is saying a lot because it was a timber frame built with green timbers, and lots of weird details that I warned him had the risk of failure).

I think glue sounds like a great idea, until it comes time to renovate:blink:


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