# carpender or a drywaller?



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

I notice that the union drywallers are carpenters thats weird for me in western Canada if you do have a ticket or"red seal" they call ya a wall systems pro". So basically most of those guys who have that ticket mainly just do steal stud framing they get a basic on stucco and drywall too.

out here it's all subs like myself who do the boarding and carpenters
do carpenter stuff haha. you couldn't get them to board i guarantee that.


----------



## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

I think a general carpenter should be able to board well. I've worked with a few excellent carpenters and they were very competent hangers. That said I wouldn't consider someone who only boards to be a carpenter.


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

RenoRob said:


> I think a general carpenter should be able to board well. I've worked with a few excellent carpenters and they were very competent hangers. That said I wouldn't consider someone who only boards to be a carpenter.


Yea i agree I'm a boarder and steal stud guy i can do structural and interior framing and over the last year I've learned how to insulate.all things that carpenters don't do out here.

I think some can probably do these job they just don't,, not out here..I worked with a carpenter 10 years ago i think that guy could do anything he was a hard worker he taught me how to use a tape, and how to cut anything.

So i probably wouldn't even be in construction at all without him.I'm just wondering if you have to be a carpenter were you guys are just to be allowed to do these jobs . out here they leave us subs that work and do all the fancy interior stuff as well as any custom building that kind of chit.


----------



## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i'm a ticketed carpenter that decided i wasn't too good to do drywall. i never expected i would end up liking it so much. it is now easily 50% of my work. i have lots of experience framing with both wood and steel and i have done a ton of trim and a small amount of concrete formwork. the majority of it has been renovations with a couple of years doing NC framing on custom homes. personally i enjoy variety and i go crazy doing any one thing too long.


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> i'm a ticketed carpenter that decided i wasn't too good to do drywall. i never expected i would end up liking it so much. it is now easily 50% of my work. i have lots of experience framing with both wood and steel and i have done a ton of trim and a small amount of concrete formwork. the majority of it has been renovations with a couple of years doing NC framing on custom homes. personally i enjoy variety and i go crazy doing any one thing too long.


 Well that makes sense reading this site had me thinking that union drywallers were all carpenters.

And i know a guy can always improve but i doubt i will be going to trade school or starting an apprenticeship now at 39.

I said in the other reply that i worked with a carpenter when i stated in construction it was great learning from him.. He ran a sidding gig that's what i would do that and soffit wile he would do trim inside and out he would also do any custom building they wanted to pay him for.

I would have apprenticed under him but he shut down his siding in the winter.. When he was younger he fell off a frosty roof was hurt real bad. so he would lay guys off for dec to end of feb. I didn't want to live on crappy E.I. so i moved on to the next thing.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

gordie said:


> And i know a guy can always improve but i doubt i will be going to trade school or starting an apprenticeship now at 39.


I'm just about to turn 41, and I'm in the process of switching gears from drywall to more solid carpentry.

We trick ourselves into thinking that just because we're "good" at something that it wouldn't make sense to change directions. 

A friend of mine calls drywall my "golden handcuffs"....I make too much money to do anything else....because I would have to take a pay cut for a while. Which I'm doing. Now. And it's not so bad. 

The great thing about carpentry work is that it lasts a lot longer than the typical drywall gig. I've been working on this job since October, which for me is unreal. I come from the land of 2-3 day jobs, and while I was doing a good job keeping my schedule full, it's much nicer to know where I'm going for a long period of time. A little-less-wage-with-job-security evens out with the higher-pay-with-sit-time that I was dealing with before (and will be dealing with after we're done with this house and wait for it to sell before starting the next).

Wow. I typed a lot. There you go.


----------



## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

gordie said:


> And i know a guy can always improve but i doubt i will be going to trade school or starting an apprenticeship now at 39.


I hear ya Gordie, toyed with idea myself a few times. You would have to take a big time pay cut and work under some one for a few years to get a piece of paper that you don't really need (in Ontario anyways). Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind the accreditation. :hammer:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

At least i don't have to be a carpenter to work out east and that its just carpenters like drywall makes sense i eat that chit:jester:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm just about to turn 41, and I'm in the process of switching gears from drywall to more solid carpentry.
> 
> We trick ourselves into thinking that just because we're "good" at something that it wouldn't make sense to change directions.
> 
> ...




I bet ther's alot of stuff you can do in a custom homes..

Thats a big part of wanting to tape,, having a house or a few units that much longer all the better..


----------



## korby_17 (Jan 7, 2011)

I think there is no such thing as a professional carpenter(not to offend anyone). If you do everything(frame, drywall, tape, finish, basic plumbing and electrical, siding, stucco, roofing, ect. You get the point) you cannot be great at everything. I just do drywall, I learn something new or try a new product every job. A lot is because of DWT. When I take a break from it to go do something else for a month. You forget little things and tricks. There is that old saying good at everything, professional at nothing. There is just too many trades to be called a professional carpenter and be concidered high quality in everything compared to someone who does the same thing everyday.


----------



## CatD7 (Jul 25, 2011)

korby_17 said:


> I think there is no such thing as a professional carpenter(not to offend anyone). If you do everything(frame, drywall, tape, finish, basic plumbing and electrical, siding, stucco, roofing, ect. You get the point) you cannot be great at everything. I just do drywall, I learn something new or try a new product every job. A lot is because of DWT. When I take a break from it to go do something else for a month. You forget little things and tricks. There is that old saying good at everything, professional at nothing. There is just too many trades to be called a professional carpenter and be concidered high quality in everything compared to someone who does the same thing everyday.


 
I will do everything but plumbing, electric, or hvac. A ni66er has got to make a buck sometimes.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gordie said:


> Well that makes sense reading this site had me thinking that union drywallers were all carpenters.
> 
> And i know a guy can always improve but i doubt i will be going to trade school or starting an apprenticeship now at 39.
> 
> ...


If only dealing with the Union, then yes, a board man, rocker, drywaller has to join the carpenters Union. If your in the the Toronto area, or GTA (greater Toronto area) that's the way it is. Where I work (London area) the rockers are not Union, but the tapers are. At one of our Whimmis meetings, I said out loud for all to hear "We don't half to worry about our drywallers becoming Union, they could never pass the Carpenters test"....... plus most of them can't read english anyhow:whistling2:.... I can't repeat what the drywallers said to me, but the DWC gave me one of these

I found when joining this site, they called the builder the GC. When dealing with shacks, we tend to say"whose the builder" well with large commercial jobs, like nursing homes, schools , high rises etc,, we would say "whose the Contractor", there is also the term developer, but I think that term holds a universal meaning.

The term General Contractor or General Construction is what you will see in the private sector, pasted on the side of their van, truck or trailer. So you could see something like 2buck General Contracting or 2buck Construction on a vehicle. I think (could be wrong) General Construction is more related to the term Master carpenter, one who can do multiple trades, like siding, roofing framing, trimming etc. Well General Contractor has more knowledge of all things, and has a list of sub trades he can call upon to bring a project to completion and over see the other trades.

I get why The term GC is used to describe one on this site as a builder, but most of our builders/GC have the term homes in their name,,,, example,,, 2buck homes, Slimpickin homes, Moore homes, Kiwiman homes, Moose boy homes,,,, their Home builders




CatD7 said:


> I will do everything but plumbing, electric, or hvac. A ni66er has got to make a buck sometimes.


Whats a ni66er, must be some type of American slang I am not familiar with:whistling2:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> If only dealing with the Union, then yes, a board man, rocker, drywaller has to join the carpenters Union. If your in the the Toronto area, or GTA (greater Toronto area) that's the way it is. Where I work (London area) the rockers are not Union, but the tapers are. At one of our Whimmis meetings, I said out loud for all to hear "We don't half to worry about our drywallers becoming Union, they could never pass the Carpenters test"....... plus most of them can't read english anyhow:whistling2:.... I can't repeat what the drywallers said to me, but the DWC gave me one of these
> 
> I found when joining this site, they called the builder the GC. When dealing with shacks, we tend to say"whose the builder" well with large commercial jobs, like nursing homes, schools , high rises etc,, we would say "whose the Contractor", there is also the term developer, but I think that term holds a universal meaning.
> 
> ...



Thats what i was getting that the union guys were carpenters . cuz out west we have a red seal ticket but they call it wall and ceiling specialist somthing like that..

We just don't have union work out here so no one needs a ticket it can help to get a steal stud job but thats about it and if you can name a couple of companies you worked for that usually gets you farther then a red seal out here.

On a side note if you do teach a dry wall class me and my bro will come out and board some stuff for ya and you can teach us what your doing on a board job done better than any carpeter:thumbup::whistling2:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gordie said:


> On a side note if you do teach a dry wall class me and my bro will come out and board some stuff for ya and you can teach us what your doing on a board job done better than any carpeter:thumbup::whistling2:


Sure thing:thumbup:

Just as long as you learn to spell the word "Carpenter" on a consistent basis.......... now go get yourself another beer


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

In my neck of the woods one who calls himself a builder [class B license] are framers that trim out and build decks..A class A contractor can go 2 ways...The job I finished up last week was for a REAL G/C very few subs involved ..Then you have the class A g/c [cell phone contractor] He passed the test cause he can read a book and had the funds...but the CPC is Clueless !! They expect the subs to do his job for him...The only tools a cell phone contractor has is a truck and a check book...That's it!..No know how ..just$$ and a license.  and I'm about ta cut one of those CPC loose ..will I sleep well at night?? Like a baby!!!:yes:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Sure thing:thumbup:
> 
> Just as long as you learn to spell the word "Carpenter" on a consistent basis.......... now go get yourself another beer


 I needed a couple tonight .. Tried to kick my 3' horse out of my way and she kicked back my legs a hurtin:jester:


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Here the residential is all non union. The union carpenters always hang the drywall. really hit or miss on what you are going to get for quality. My only beef is they hang the cornerbead too. I havent found a carpenter yet that can put on a piece of corner bead to my liking.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

gordie said:


> I needed a couple tonight .. Tried to kick my 3' horse out of my way and she kicked back my legs a hurtin:jester:


To borrow a phrase, I used to celebrate the grand opening of a pack of a gum.....any reason to have a drink, right?


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Too much overlap in the trades. Mostly it's simply to put a label on what Rate/Scale wage a worker should get. It also depends on what a guy feels better about calling himself.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

There are terms and then are terms,, ya know.

In the south (American by birth, southern by the grace of God)

A General Contractor is licensed by the state, two types, residential and building(commercial or residential). You have to pass the test and pay the fine,,, I mean fee each year to get renewed.

A sub-contractor is a guy like us that bids out a job to the GC.

Everybody uses different terms, but theses are the legal definitions.


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> To borrow a phrase, I used to celebrate the grand opening of a pack of a gum.....any reason to have a drink, right?


 You got it man  and a smoke if your from B.C..

Back to this thread i went to the new office of a d.w. company that i sub for out here in Sask Canada. I was given the key so i could pick up suplies 
monkey chit and spray foam for a job. When i got there in the morning i drove in on the wrong side of the building and there and behold.

It was the union office for carpenters millwrights, and drywallers.
So there it is im going to have to check it out i've never her'ed of union work out here.:blink:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gordie said:


> You got it man  and a smoke if your from B.C..
> 
> Back to this thread i went to the new office of a d.w. company that i sub for out here in Sask Canada. I was given the key so i could pick up suplies
> monkey chit and spray foam for a job. When i got there in the morning i drove in on the wrong side of the building and there and behold.
> ...


 Well Lance...You gonna join em..


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

moore said:


> Well Lance...You gonna join em..


 problem with any union work how would i pass a piss test


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gordie said:


> problem with any union work how would i pass a piss test


My guess is your Unions were like ours in Ontario 10-20 years ago.

Union was always hour work, huge jobs like shopping malls, hospitals, government jobs etc. You show up at 7 in the morning, work till 3 or so, and have some clowns screaming at you all day long that your too slow and doing it all wrong.

Non Union was always shacks, or small commercial jobs. Over time, a small independent could become a fairly large company, employing a 100 guys or more. Made them easy targets for the union to come in and organize them to become Union. But, they still kept piece work rates still infect, well doing houses. So now we have 2 types of Unions, P/W and hour rated.

So it's no big deal to join the Union (you have no choice here) The question is, do you want to work by the hour or P/W. Tax wise it's better to go by the hour, your on a pay roll, you get unemployment insurence and holiday pay, but it's more like factory work. P/w maybe your better choice though if things are booming. You have more control over your work day and could gross more money over a year than by the hour, but the tax man will murder you.....

Decisions decisions:whistling2:


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't think i would do hourly it sounds nice having everything taken care of .. 

Done a'lot of hourly when i stated out it was great for learning but out west from what iv'e seen doesn't matter who you work for companies just run out of work and the hourly guys are left holding there tools on E.I.

I hate paying taxes right after xmas because i havnt saved chit. But i love the piece work and i like doing shacks less rules and goofs who like to here there own voice.

On the big commercial jobs you just what to hook up a fall harness to the ground and climb on you two foot horse and say are you happy am i safe now

Like i said curiosity and the fact that this union office is there beside the company i sub for. I,m gonna have to go ask some ? but i think my future is learning how to tape my own work i don't need a job just some new tasks and skills :thumbup:


----------



## Zendik (Sep 14, 2011)

I prefer, "Lord of Board".


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

moore said:


> In my neck of the woods one who calls himself a builder [class B license] are framers that trim out and build decks..A class A contractor can go 2 ways...The job I finished up last week was for a REAL G/C very few subs involved ..Then you have the class A g/c [cell phone contractor] He passed the test cause he can read a book and had the funds...but the CPC is Clueless !! They expect the subs to do his job for him...The only tools a cell phone contractor has is a truck and a check book...That's it!..No know how ..just$$ and a license.  and I'm about ta cut one of those CPC loose ..will I sleep well at night?? Like a baby!!!:yes:


That's what we respectfully and lovingly call a "Truckass":whistling2:They are the modern version of a Centaur and thier most impressive skill is rolling the window up when you ruin thier day with reality and laws of nature.


----------



## ubcguy89 (Mar 20, 2013)

I am a union carpenter here in Pittsburgh and we do everything from concrete form work to framing to drywall to trim. we install cabinets, windows doors(wood and steel jambs), wood framing, and layout. I love it.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

evolve991 said:


> That's what we respectfully and lovingly call a "Truckass":whistling2:They are the modern version of a Centaur and thier most impressive skill is rolling the window up when you ruin thier day with reality and laws of nature.


 I love it when it's been raining and the grounds all muddy..And this guy pulls up in front of the house within 50 feet of the front door then calls me on his cell to see how things are coming along..LOL!!!
After I've been tromping through the muck running a generator /hauling tools / keeping the space heaters going ....I'm looking for a word to describe this guy?? ......wait.....wait I got It!!! PUSSY!!:thumbup: Yeah!!! That's the word I was looking for PUSSY!! :yes: A class A general Contractor to todays standards ain't what it use to be. By no means! 
I like working for the ole timers,and there Sons:yes:


----------



## Mud Masters (Mar 1, 2013)

We call them crapenters!! They say stuff like ( I don't hang out of the scrap pile ). I tell them it ain't scrap until your done. Board burners- the more you waste the more you make


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> I love it when it's been raining and the grounds all muddy..And this guy pulls up in front of the house within 50 feet of the front door then calls me on his cell to see how things are coming along..LOL!!!
> After I've been tromping through the muck running a generator /hauling tools / keeping the space heaters going ....I'm looking for a word to describe this guy?? ......wait.....wait I got It!!! PUSSY!!:thumbup: Yeah!!! That's the word I was looking for PUSSY!! :yes: A class A general Contractor to todays standards ain't what it use to be. By no means!
> I like working for the ole timers,and there Sons:yes:


Sounds like you do need a helper.


----------

