# Pieceworkers



## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

Hi, who on here has pretty much done piecework for so long that the thought of working by the hour is a dread? We use to take on a little more footage than we needed to for years but i never really "dreaded" going to work, maybe it was that we were making great money (for a finisher) or the fact that we never had anyone come in a tell us what or how to do something, when to show up and when we could leave or when and for how long we could take a break. Probably all those things combined. I have only worked by the hour early in my career for a short time but have been thinking of an hourly job as of late since i moved to such a slow area (even without the recession it would be slow here). I have been doing a lot of small jobs although i do have a couple of good size houses to start next week but that won't last long.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

CLUTCHSTEVENS said:


> Hi, who on here has pretty much done piecework for so long that the thought of working by the hour is a dread? We use to take on a little more footage than we needed to for years but i never really "dreaded" going to work, maybe it was that we were making great money (for a finisher) or the fact that we never had anyone come in a tell us what or how to do something, when to show up and when we could leave or when and for how long we could take a break. Probably all those things combined. I have only worked by the hour early in my career for a short time but have been thinking of an hourly job as of late since i moved to such a slow area (even without the recession it would be slow here). I have been doing a lot of small jobs although i do have a couple of good size houses to start next week but that won't last long.


I think you answered your own question,,,, there are a lot of things to loss in this life,,, is your freedom and independance one you are willing to forego ??


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

would you give up piece work for a good steady gig with great pay and benefits?


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## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think you answered your own question,,,, there are a lot of things to loss in this life,,, is your freedom and independance one you are willing to forego ??


 Correct, i did answer part of my original post but was also asking what others thought, that feel or have had the same situation. Thanks for the great response.


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## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

d-rock said:


> would you give up piece work for a good steady gig with great pay and benefits?



The area i am in is pretty bad for piece work, but i am about to make a move of some kind. I have a solid 3 man crew that are very qualified in all areas of drywall including metal studs and custom sections. One opportunity is for a company in Miami that does a lot of custom sections but the pricing seems to be an issue. Another is a company i worked for years has some good size overseas jobs, i subbed for them for about 5-6 years but the overseas jobs are long term and by the hour, but i imagine we will probably end up going as the owner has a silver tongue.


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

I love piece work/working for myself too much to give it up just yet. Also I hate some idiot A-Hole that knows nothing about what's going on telling me I'm taking too many breaks.:furious: I'm so used to moving at a faster pace that the hourly thing bores me. :whistling2: Just my .02 :jester:


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

Hey Capt, how's work going out in NC?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

MeatBallDryWall said:


> Hey Capt, how's work going out in NC?


Well since ya asked,,,,,,,,,,, I'm making about what I made in the 70's. I remember the "Carter" years, and we are here again, (because we don't learn from history). 

I'm still floating above water, and it is picking up some, thank God. 

What ya need to remember is this,,, Storms never last,,, and the guys that are still in bussiness and still have their tools and ethics, will be sitting EXACTLY where they need to be when things do get back to Capitalistic free enterprise.

BTW, one thing that helps me to hang in,,, is sometimes, if I have the weekend off, I'll sit around, drink a few beers, and talk all weekend about how I'm done, I quit, all that stuff. Then Monday morning I'll get up and go back to work, feeling much better about the whole thing!:thumbsup:


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

I get a very fair hourly rate on renovation/small jobs and an great footage rate on anything new construction. I'm pretty lucky i think.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

CLUTCHSTEVENS said:


> The area i am in is pretty bad for piece work, but i am about to make a move of some kind. I have a solid 3 man crew that are very qualified in all areas of drywall including metal studs and custom sections. One opportunity is for a company in Miami that does a lot of custom sections but the pricing seems to be an issue. Another is a company i worked for years has some good size overseas jobs, i subbed for them for about 5-6 years but the overseas jobs are long term and by the hour, but i imagine we will probably end up going as the owner has a silver tongue.



Hey Clutch,

What part of Ky.are you located?


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## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

Muddauber said:


> Hey Clutch,
> 
> What part of Ky.are you located?


 Southeast about 65 miles from Knoxville. Where are you?


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm north of you, Louisville- Lexington area.


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

> BTW, one thing that helps me to hang in,,, is sometimes, if I have the weekend off, I'll sit around, drink a few beers, and talk all weekend about how I'm done, I quit, all that stuff. Then Monday morning I'll get up and go back to work, feeling much better about the whole thing! :thumbsup:


LMAO I've felt like calling it quits a bunch of times myself (Not as many as you have I'm sure) but I do love the trade. Also you don't have to put up with as many idiots as you would a "regular" job so I guess I'm here for good...or bad maybe. :blink:


:rockon:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

MeatBallDryWall said:


> LMAO I've felt like calling it quits a bunch of times myself (Not as many as you have I'm sure) but I do love the trade. Also you don't have to put up with as many idiots as you would a "regular" job so I guess I'm here for good...or bad maybe. :blink:
> 
> 
> :rockon:


Relax man, and enjoy,,, its WAY better than real job, after all !!!!:thumbup:


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

> Relax man, and enjoy,,, its WAY better than real job, after all !!!!:thumbup:


Roger that! :thumbsup:


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

I have no problem working by the hour. $40-70 /hr or $80-$110 /hr for a two man crew is reasonable, depending what's involved.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Bevelation said:


> I have no problem working by the hour. $40-70 /hr or $80-$110 /hr for a two man crew is reasonable, depending what's involved.


I do both, but everyone thinks piece work is big money.By the hour i can wash out my pals clean my tools,clean the floor,go for mud and do what ever you want me to do for $40-70/hr.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

big george said:


> I do both, but everyone thinks piece work is big money.By the hour i can wash out my pals clean my tools,clean the floor,go for mud and do what ever you want me to do for $40-70/hr.


I worked hourly out in Russia (arctic circle, siberia, canadian gold mine, don't ask)

i made 200,000bd ft take 6 months. i spent 1/2 of one day sleeping in an attic and almost a full day trying to master flicking mud with split-hair accuarcy. my point is, after 4 months i was ready to kill myself, i hate working hourly even if you can be lazy. i grew up on a farm and we farm folks know that there is value in a hard days work. piece work is where the money and job satisfaction are at. knowing you did a kick-ass job in a better than expected time-frame is what i aim for everyday. 

after 183 days (6 months) i only had to pay about 10% tax vs. 45% tax. it made a difference of about $12k. so i made damn sure the job lasted that long. i should mention that out of that 6 months i spent about a month doing floor tile & painting. those gold companies through money around like drunken sailors. I had a first class flight from Magadahn Russia to Moscow, they gave me caviar & champagne before take-off. In Frankfurt i billed for a 40 euro breakfast. best sausages i've ever had. oh and i was getting paid 8 hr/day during travel. it was great/horrible.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> I do both, but everyone thinks piece work is big money.By the hour i can wash out my pals clean my tools,clean the floor,go for mud and do what ever you want me to do for $40-70/hr.


I think this is the crux of the matter,,,, I do drywall cause I like to do it, I never work by the hour, only by the job,,,, I would never just STAND around for an hour, no matter how much you pay me. 

Money is not the ONLY reason to exsit !!!!


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

> Money is not the ONLY reason to exsit !!!!


You preach on Capt! I agree 101% :thumbsup:


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think this is the crux of the matter,,,, I do drywall cause I like to do it, I never work by the hour, only by the job,,,, I would never just STAND around for an hour, no matter how much you pay me.
> 
> Money is not the ONLY reason to exsit !!!!


 Who talked about standing around for a hour.I just said they both can work.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Well since ya asked,,,,,,,,,,, I'm making about what I made in the 70's. I remember the "Carter" years, and we are here again, (because we don't learn from history).
> 
> I'm still floating above water, and it is picking up some, thank God.
> 
> ...


 If your making the same as in the 70's you should start up a band.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Ya know, alot of times we end up argueing, cause there are TWO of us.

1) those of us that are drywallers, and do drywall, no matter how the market is
2) those of us that are in this to MAKE MONEY. Nothing wrong with that either.

So in times like these, if your in it just for the MONEY, than its time to pursue another endeaver.

If your in it cause your a drywaller,,, than you do drywall,,,,,

nuff said


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> If your making the same as in the 70's you should start up a band.


A band??? do you play the fiddle???? 

I play the 5 string,guitar,mandolin,and harmonica,,, see my avitar !!!! 

PS; my sweetie plays the frying pan


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Ya know, alot of times we end up argueing, cause there are TWO of us.
> 
> 1) those of us that are drywallers, and do drywall, no matter how the market is
> 2) those of us that are in this to MAKE MONEY. Nothing wrong with that either.
> ...



:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## grid ninja (Mar 21, 2010)

no matter what, i work the same, hourly or sub work , i love what i do for the most part . if your in a room next to me, just so you no we are racing. thats why i am the grid ninja. cool dude in broken arrow


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

grid ninja said:


> no matter what, i work the same, hourly or sub work , i love what i do for the most part . if your in a room next to me, just so you no we are racing. thats why i am the grid ninja. cool dude in broken arrow


Grid,,, we are piece workers, capitalists. Thats why we do it,,, its the LURE of easy money, ya know !!!!

I have friends in the buss,,, that I work by the day for sometmes, when they ask me too. I guess thats a bit like working by the hour, I work the same speed I always do, thats just what I do.

But I would never, ever take a constuction job by the hour, I have never seen anyone that was satissfied in that situation. If I wanted to get paid by the hour and treated like a house,,,,,ya know,,,, I'd work for wallmart.

No one will ever respect you IF you work by the hour,,, you are just another guy from the soup kitchen, and can be replaced at anytime

JMHO


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Grid,,, we are piece workers, capitalists. Thats why we do it,,, its the LURE of easy money, ya know !!!!
> 
> I have friends in the buss,,, that I work by the day for sometmes, when they ask me too. I guess thats a bit like working by the hour, I work the same speed I always do, thats just what I do.
> 
> ...


you wouldn't say that I you were working on a union crew in NYC earning 100k per year plus full benefits


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## grid ninja (Mar 21, 2010)

*i love piece work*

only thing i do different is i work longer hours Winn i peace work . worked one full year subbing from a company in O.K. city Dean Interiors in about 1987 . at 8 cents a sq ft for grid and 5 cents sq ft for tile i cant believe i done it so cheep . rocked houses for 8 cents a sq ft, rocked a house not to long ago . walls were 18 cents a sq ft ceiling were 25 , tapping i got for 27 cents a sq ft they furnished every thing . i made a bout 50 a hour win i was done. if you never peaced worked thin you don't know what you are worth.


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## CLUTCHSTEVENS (Mar 6, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Ya know, alot of times we end up argueing, cause there are TWO of us.
> 
> 1) those of us that are drywallers, and do drywall, no matter how the market is
> 2) those of us that are in this to MAKE MONEY. Nothing wrong with that either.
> ...



Great post Capt!!! I have subbed pretty much my entire career with a small amount of hourly work sprinkled in. I like going to work when i sub, sure i work a little too much at times and wish for some time off but when working by the hour i have always dreaded going, kind of like going to the doctor or school.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> you wouldn't say that I you were working on a union crew in NYC earning 100k per year plus full benefits


Don't really know how to answer that D,,,, as a capitalist and an american, I am diametrically opposed to unions. They are an attempt to increase egg production, by strangling the chicken !

Do you remember the ole country song that went like this...

Everybody stand up and hollar for the Union
We ain't hit a lick all year 

Or the one that said

If heaven ain't alot like Dixe, I don't want to go
You can send me to Hell or NYC, It'd be about the same to me


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Don't really know how to answer that D,,,, as a capitalist and an american, I am diametrically opposed to unions. They are an attempt to increase egg production, by strangling the chicken !
> 
> Do you remember the ole country song that went like this...
> 
> ...


Cap'n...i'm a staunch capitalist and conservative. Never the less I believe in private sector union work 100%. especially in construction. My own company is not union, as I'm still a new business, but I worked union for quite some time ( as well as non union) and there is no comparison. The companies make a great profit, or they wouldn't be in business. The men earn a great living and they work hard. It's got nothing to do with capitalist or not, we're not talking public sector bureaucrats..


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> Cap'n...i'm a staunch capitalist and conservative. Never the less I believe in private sector union work 100%. especially in construction. My own company is not union, as I'm still a new business, but I worked union for quite some time ( as well as non union) and there is no comparison. The companies make a great profit, or they wouldn't be in business. The men earn a great living and they work hard. It's got nothing to do with capitalist or not, we're not talking public sector bureaucrats..


D,,, 

With ALL due respect, It is impossible to be a capitalist and a union guy at the same time.

Words mean things,,,


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## TonyM (Aug 4, 2008)

What's all this 'Union" business you go on about? Is it guaranteed work or something? Or just clock in, hourly pay, clock out?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> D,,,
> 
> With ALL due respect, It is impossible to be a capitalist and a union guy at the same time.
> 
> Words mean things,,,



Amen, Capn. Capitalism is the exact opposite of pro-union. Ever seen a capitalist union organizer? NOPE! That's just so wrong on so many levels.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

darren and cap'n,
the mere fact that you would say that shows me you do not really understand unions, or conservatism.


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

I am a Drywaller,Hanger to be specific. I enjoy putting up quality rock and seeing a job well done. A nice check at the end is awesome too but there are many ways to make money. I do what I love. USG or Gold Bond,Miracle DSA or OSI,Baltimore Steel and Wire nails and Grabber screws on a job gives me a high like no sticky bud can!!!Holding a sheet over my head by my fingertips and getting it gasket tight is like a knockout punch in a championship fight to me. Being paid by the sheet is an incentive and allows me to set a goal.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Grid,,, we are piece workers, capitalists. Thats why we do it,,, its the LURE of easy money, ya know !!!!
> 
> I have friends in the buss,,, that I work by the day for sometmes, when they ask me too. I guess thats a bit like working by the hour, I work the same speed I always do, thats just what I do.
> 
> ...


No one will respect you if you work by the hour.I think the caption has more on is mind.:drink:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> darren and cap'n,
> the mere fact that you would say that shows me you do not really understand unions, or conservatism.


Stated like a true Union guy,,,,,,

I and Darren said CPITALISM,,,,,, you changed it to Conservatisim.

I agree that you can be a socialist AND a conservitive.
However, you CAN NOT be a Capitialist and a Union member(socialist). Anymore than you can be a dog and a cat at the same time.
Or an apple and an orange at the same time.

I would also like to take this oppurtunity to say,,,, Oh Yeah,,,, I do understand unions, and I am whole-heartedly agin em, at ever pass.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

TonyM said:


> What's all this 'Union" business you go on about? Is it guaranteed work or something? Or just clock in, hourly pay, clock out?


Is that a serious question Tony??


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm not sure how this switched to a thread about unions, but i'll jump in anyway with my .02.

Mining giant, Tek Cominco, pretty much runs my part of the world. Even the local ski hill is under a union thumb. They are forced to pay insane wages to lifty ski bums, they must re-hire them the next season, even if they sucked, with a wage increase. I was a 'lifty' back in the day, and minimum wage was more than fair for such a job. The ski hill can only get rid of the union if they close down for 2 years and re-open. It might come to that. If that's what it takes for the privately owned ski hill to get rid of their insanely overpriced labor force, then so be it. One of the hangers that worked for our DC quit and went to work at Tek so he would have job security. 

anyway, that was a bit of a rant about nothing at all.

Unions - keeping underqualified & ambitionless people overpaid. they were a good idea at their grassroots level, but as with most things, as they gain power, they loose focus.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

lol i realize some of you know NOTHING about construction unions. Cap'n, you call me a socialist, i take it personally. (sorry charlie, you asked for it). In our union, if you don't produce, you don't earn. the cream rises to the top. but you wouldn't understand that. As you've clearly demonstrated in many of your previous posts here, and on other forums you are uninformed and uneducated about many things that are not drywall. Trying to discuss these issues with you, in particular, is like giving money to a cat. Ask yourself how much you've earned in your best years, then TELL yourself that union men earned more because that's the truth, and they did it working a 35 hr week with reasonable overtime. 
Finally, do not call me a socialist, because in fact you probably have no idea what a socialist really is. Seems you have a giant chip on your shoulder that needs some fine tuning. 
Most of the men in our union are capitalists and conservatives. Talented workers grouping together to negotiate with their employer for better wages and benefits is capitalism. Shall I put together a reading list for you ? Also,please lay off NYC, it's the capital of the world, and though it may be liberal as sin, all people and all religions are welcomed here. Great place to grow up.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

McDusty said:


> I'm not sure how this switched to a thread about unions, but i'll jump in anyway with my .02.
> 
> Mining giant, Tek Cominco, pretty much runs my part of the world. Even the local ski hill is under a union thumb. They are forced to pay insane wages to lifty ski bums, they must re-hire them the next season, even if they sucked, with a wage increase. I was a 'lifty' back in the day, and minimum wage was more than fair for such a job. The ski hill can only get rid of the union if they close down for 2 years and re-open. It might come to that. If that's what it takes for the privately owned ski hill to get rid of their insanely overpriced labor force, then so be it. One of the hangers that worked for our DC quit and went to work at Tek so he would have job security.
> 
> ...


have you ever been in the carpenter's union ? i'm guessing not. This post makes you sound like the Cap'n....ignorant.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

d-rock said:


> have you ever been in the carpenter's union ? i'm guessing not. This post makes you sound like the Cap'n....ignorant.


meh, just speaking from personal experience. ignorance is bliss.


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

I believe in workers with a talent banding together and coming to an agreement with suits to be treated and paid better. I just don't believe in paying a tithe so 'da Boss' can live large and skim almost as much as the workers themselves thereby bleeding the company dry while not really helping the workers much at all. Not that all unions are like that. But whatever union I was in when I worked at Peach Bottom for Crinkel n DeStroy did little more than collect dues every week.If the union works as D-Rock is explaining I consider that to be the democratic way and worthy of efforts to uphold.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> lol i realize some of you know NOTHING about construction unions. Cap'n, you call me a socialist, i take it personally. (sorry charlie, you asked for it). In our union, if you don't produce, you don't earn. the cream rises to the top. but you wouldn't understand that. As you've clearly demonstrated in many of your previous posts here, and on other forums you are uninformed and uneducated about many things that are not drywall. Trying to discuss these issues with you, in particular, is like giving money to a cat. Ask yourself how much you've earned in your best years, then TELL yourself that union men earned more because that's the truth, and they did it working a 35 hr week with reasonable overtime.
> Finally, do not call me a socialist, because in fact you probably have no idea what a socialist really is. Seems you have a giant chip on your shoulder that needs some fine tuning.
> Most of the men in our union are capitalists and conservatives. Talented workers grouping together to negotiate with their employer for better wages and benefits is capitalism. Shall I put together a reading list for you ? Also,please lay off NYC, it's the capital of the world, and though it may be liberal as sin, all people and all religions are welcomed here. Great place to grow up.


You can call me ignorant all you want comrade. I am not the sharpest knife in the draw, but i do have a dictionary. Words mean things. You can not be a capitalist and a socialist at the same time, its a contradiction in terms (like government intelligence)

You keep making the point that "unions" make mo money than scabs. I have not dissagreed with that point, in fact I believe I stated that "unions are an attempt at increaseing production, by strangling the chicken"

Perhaps you, being so much mo brilliant than me, can explain to me how a capitialist can be a uionist also??? (since you seem to be offended by the term socialist).

I lived in Long Island for four years, so I have every right to think that NYC sucks, I have been there !!! Had a cousin killed in NYC, by a union guy, for bidding the job. Call me a racist, but he was a union guy and he was found guilty. But then again, words don't mean anything to you


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Cap'n, so sorry about your brother. You are so correct on Drock. While he may be doing quite well in the union and think himself a conservative, facts are facts. There is indeed a small slice of the Socialist crowd that actually me be considered capalists though... George Soros comes to mind:lol:

A vital function of their proletariat class is to offer up an example of how Socialism works and can work for you too! So in that respect, maybe we give this to drock and smile smuggly. This microcosm does not prove his point but rather ours. I do believe one could be a Socialist and an (unhappy) conservative at the same time, but not a capitalist. The two are, as you say, diametrically opposed. If that is not apparent, further explanation won't convince anyone. 

The same goes for the argument that Socialism has never worked anywhere for any real length of time. The Socialist system ALWAYS collapses upon itself. leaving a legacy of tyranny, death squads, national economic destruction, and civil strife(war). It is billed to the poor masses as an improvement and to the middle class as a duty to our less fortunate. They practiced all other methods of takeover, by civil war and military coup, and are now using the "boiling frog" method. Slowly, over fifty plus years, they have added one tenet at a time to your daily life and we begrudgingly accept each new insult. Now almost every piece is in place and our liberty and freedom is pretty much gone.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Cap'n, so sorry about your brother. You are so correct on Drock. While he may be doing quite well in the union and think himself a conservative, facts are facts. There is indeed a small slice of the Socialist crowd that actually me be considered capalists though... George Soros comes to mind:lol:
> 
> A vital function of their proletariat class is to offer up an example of how Socialism works and can work for you too! So in that respect, maybe we give this to drock and smile smuggly. This microcosm does not prove his point but rather ours. I do believe one could be a Socialist and an (unhappy) conservative at the same time, but not a capitalist. The two are, as you say, diametrically opposed. If that is not apparent, further explanation won't convince anyone.
> 
> The same goes for the argument that Socialism has never worked anywhere for any real length of time. The Socialist system ALWAYS collapses upon itself. leaving a legacy of tyranny, death squads, national economic destruction, and civil strife(war). It is billed to the poor masses as an improvement and to the middle class as a duty to our less fortunate. They practiced all other methods of takeover, by civil war and military coup, and are now using the "boiling frog" method. Slowly, over fifty plus years, they have added one tenet at a time to your daily life and we begrudgingly accept each new insult. Now almost every piece is in place and our liberty and freedom is pretty much gone.


 Here in canada we like are trade,never talk about capitalist,socialism,conservatism and all them other words.:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Cap'n, so sorry about your brother. You are so correct on Drock. While he may be doing quite well in the union and think himself a conservative, facts are facts. There is indeed a small slice of the Socialist crowd that actually me be considered capalists though... George Soros comes to mind:lol:
> 
> A vital function of their proletariat class is to offer up an example of how Socialism works and can work for you too! So in that respect, maybe we give this to drock and smile smuggly. This microcosm does not prove his point but rather ours. I do believe one could be a Socialist and an (unhappy) conservative at the same time, but not a capitalist. The two are, as you say, diametrically opposed. If that is not apparent, further explanation won't convince anyone.
> 
> The same goes for the argument that Socialism has never worked anywhere for any real length of time. The Socialist system ALWAYS collapses upon itself. leaving a legacy of tyranny, death squads, national economic destruction, and civil strife(war). It is billed to the poor masses as an improvement and to the middle class as a duty to our less fortunate. They practiced all other methods of takeover, by civil war and military coup, and are now using the "boiling frog" method. Slowly, over fifty plus years, they have added one tenet at a time to your daily life and we begrudgingly accept each new insult. Now almost every piece is in place and our liberty and freedom is pretty much gone.


Thanks for this post. I agree with you, and I also KNOW that it is really fruitless to debate the topic with those that hold a differant view. It is a topic that generates alot of feelings. As an american, I believe that all of us are intitled to our own views, and the right to speak about them.

I do find it really tough to just sit by and never say anything, when I hear folks proposeing things, that as you said, have never ever worked anywhere in the world before. Why destroy the best market ever created. 

Anyhoo,,,, I'm done ranting about this. I will endevor to behave myself !!


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

IMO it takes a stronger minded person to work for themselves than a big union CO. Anyone can grab a pan & knife & piddle all day for a check.  Get out there & hustle up work, stay busy & make a living without the backing of a big Corp & then make your brags. It's a hustling man's game & a tough one @ that. :thumbsup:

 Socialism BTW.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

MeatBallDryWall said:


> IMO it takes a stronger minded person to work for themselves than a big union CO. Anyone can grab a pan & knife & piddle all day for a check.  Get out there & hustle up work, stay busy & make a living without the backing of a big Corp & then make your brags. It's a hustling man's game & a tough one @ that. :thumbsup:
> 
> Socialism BTW.


 So the people that wake up every day and go to work have weaker minds than you ? Lawyers and doctors get up everyday and work for large corporations, great carpenters, and great tapers. You have your own business, probably work 60 hrs per week and always sweat the next gig...You probably barely break 100k. Union men bust their hump for 35 hrs a week,7 hrs a day, full benefits with the best and safest working conditions, and they make 100k..In union construction, a laborer that pushes a broom and shovel owns a home, a great car, a boat, and puts his kids through college. Without all your headaches.
If the customer is paying top dollar, why shouldn't the contractor/ owner pay top dollar. Get it ?
CAptain and Darren, that's called SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS. Maybe you guys heard of it, it's champion was a union member ...Ronald Reagan.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

By the way guys, don't take any of this personally, I do enjoy debating with all of you.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Drock, sure RR was in the SAG, but do you really consider that a trade union? I do enjoy debating you as well. But I stand on my previous posts. And the whole geographical cost of living thing, did you somehow forget that part? My stoogies are $4, yours are $10. In NY, your cost of living is crazy high, what like $300-500 a month just to park a car? Those 100k incomes is also why your cribs cost a million apiece too. I looked up real estate in NY burbs: my 2400 sq ft house with a barn cost under 140k, the same in NY, no barn about $675k or so. So if I make 80-100k, I live a wee bit better than your broom pusher. It's called wage price spiral, a term last used during Carters administration. Pay stupid high wages, you get stupid high prices. Then it turns into a contest of who can raise it faster. The workers are amazed at their good fortune of such a high wage, until they realize hamburger costs what Tbones did last year.

I still say a union guy can't really call himself a true capitalist. I'll argue that to my deathbed. Unions are truly the first step to Marxist Socialism. This country took that step 80 odd years ago, look where we are now. This Socialized healthcare bullsheet may be the beginning of the end of Socialism here and good frigging riddance.

Once you tell the rank and file that worker A, B, C, D are all of exactl the same value, regardless of output, the initiative is DESTROYED forever. Once you begin redistributing wealth, those with the ability to generate greater wealth will go to ground. They either hide the assets better or they will simply create much less. 

You know the best part of being an independent? Not having some grease ball shake you down for the kickback, up front, under the table, or straight off the check in the form of union dues. And all union members can blow the Cadillac plan exemption straight out their arse. Your union dues went straight into Obamas pocket. Proud of that?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

And, for the record, supply side econ? It works. ask Bill Clinton. His adminstration was the true benefactor of Ronnie's unpopular fiscal polcy. Nobody was listening when he told us it would take time. The budget surpluses of the Clinton era were a direct result of the Rs carrying on the supply side economics (and welfare reform).:thumbup: Hell even Kennedy believed in tax cuts. But they didn't pass them until he was dead. And they worked. That is an undebateable fact.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> And, for the record, supply side econ? It works. ask Bill Clinton. His adminstration was the true benefactor of Ronnie's unpopular fiscal polcy. Nobody was listening when he told us it would take time. The budget surpluses of the Clinton era were a direct result of the Rs carrying on the supply side economics (and welfare reform).:thumbup: Hell even Kennedy believed in tax cuts. But they didn't pass them until he was dead. And they worked. That is an undebateable fact.


i agree with this statement 100%. 
The other stuff we will rebut later.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

d-rock said:


> Union men bust their hump for 35 hrs a week,7 hrs a day, .


Sorry D, but that almost sounds like a working vacation to me?! If I worked 7 hours a day and was only allowed to put up X (say 30) sheets a day I would be embarrassed. How does that work out for you when you are doing work outside of your weekly gig...or do you...


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Unions,let me just say this,,,uh no forget it!!! DSJOHN


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> i agree with this statement 100%.
> The other stuff we will rebut later.


A walking contradiction. How, pray tell, can you agree with that staement 100% and be a union guy???

I forgot, your a capitalist AND a socialist


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

> So the people that wake up every day and go to work have weaker minds than you ? Lawyers and doctors get up everyday and work for large corporations, great carpenters, and great tapers. You have your own business, probably work 60 hrs per week and always sweat the next gig...You probably barely break 100k. Union men bust their hump for 35 hrs a week,7 hrs a day, full benefits with the best and safest working conditions, and they make 100k..In union construction, a laborer that pushes a broom and shovel owns a home, a great car, a boat, and puts his kids through college. Without all your headaches.
> If the customer is paying top dollar, why shouldn't the contractor/ owner pay top dollar. Get it ?


If anyone has a weaker mind than myself they must be bad off.  What I will say is I bet I can run circles around you hanginf/finishing or whatever because I am used to busting (_I_) & not pushing a broom all day. :whistling2:


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

MeatBallDryWall said:


> If anyone has a weaker mind than myself they must be bad off.  What I will say is I bet I can run circles around you hanginf/finishing or whatever because I am used to busting (_I_) & not pushing a broom all day. :whistling2:


 You obviously need to back up and read what the post says. The first sentence of your statement says it all. As far as you running circles, you need to settle down my friend, this is not about who has a larger member, but rather, working conditions and political ideas. For the record I've seen union carpenters and tapers hang and finish insane amounts of rock.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

OK. I see what's happening here. You guys don't understand how these trade unions work.
Let me clarify. This is it in a nutshell. Cap'n, read it slowly...

A union carpenter frames and hangs sheetrock. He works for a PRIVATELY owned company, he is REPRESENTED by a union, which demands certain things from the boss in order to work. (much like an executive uses an attorney to hammer out a 'terms of employment' contract , same thing in fact)
The boss is getting paid top dollar for the work, so he doesn't mind paying the wages and benefits, however in return, he demands a productive work force. He also RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE AT WILL any unproductive employees.
You show up a quarter to 7, you're making noise at 7, you get 1 coffee break (10 mins) in the morning and you get lunch (1/2 hr). There are no minimums or quotas to fill, doesn't work that way. You are given specific projects by foreman which you MUST compete in a timely manner. If you can't cut the mustard, you get fired ON THE SPOT. You gotta produce, b/c if you don't , you sit on the 'out of work list' forever. Essentially it's up to the individual to make it happen for himself, this is not the UAW.

Here is the typical wage for a non union board hanger in the NY metro area
$ 20 per hour
no benefits 

Here is the typical wage for a union board hanger
$ 43 per hour wages
$ 38 per hour benefits ( includes pension, annuity, vacation pay, full medical, full dental, full eye care and many other misc items)

That's $81 per hour. Make your choice.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

So D...there is no cap on the amount of rock you hang per day?

Are you allowed to walk stilts?

Are you allowed to run tools or only hand finish?


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> So D...there is no cap on the amount of rock you hang per day?
> 
> Are you allowed to walk stilts?
> 
> Are you allowed to run tools or only hand finish?


No cap. The more rock you hang, the more rolls you put up, the better. Actually, the better you do the more secure your job is. When things get slow you will be the last to get laid off, when it picks up, you will be the first they call.

STILTS- That varies by company. Some companies do it, some don't. Most of the time it's your choice.

Running tools depends on the company. Some companies do it some don't. I know for a fact you're not allowed to run your personal tools. If the company wants you to run tools or use stilts, they supply everything. Same with the board hangers, they supply all the screw guns and power tools. You're not allowed to bring your own power tools. The idea is that you should not beat up your power tools on the company's job. Even non union, if a taper works for me and runs his own tools, i pay him extra. I supply all my carpenters with power tools on the job.
My own company is not union, I am hoping to sign up soon. First I have to build my business up a bit more. I am still a union member. The idea is the same anywhere you go, work hard and do the right thing.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

So you can only walk stilts or run tools 'if'n the mas'sir say it so?!


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> So you can only walk stilts or run tools 'if'n the mas'sir say it so?!


 when you say " mas'sir " do u you mean the boss of the company ? As far as i know, any company i ever worked for, union or not, we always did what the boss said.
if that's the only thing you got from reading my post,i suggest you slow down a bit to better digest the text.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

blank

asking you dude...WOW...you can only do that crap off of somebody else's equipment? I can understand you being happy for the money you are making, but are you part of the solution or part of the problem?! 
YANKEES STILL SUCK


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

The reason that you have to use the companies equipment is because in order to use your own equipment you would have to carry your own comp ins. If you get hurt on a union job using your own equipment there is a possibility you would not receive comp.


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

> You obviously need to back up and read what the post says. The first sentence of your statement says it all.


Yup, I have no problems admitting that I'm not the brightest start in the sky. Maybe You sir should take a look within yourself as well. :thumbsup:




> RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE AT WILL any unproductive employees.





> you get fired ON THE SPOT





> REPRESENTED by a union


Doesn't the union have to represent the workers even if they  up? If not then what do they do besides collect your $$? Everyone  up from time to time so that would mean you have to be perfect to work for this union?



> Here is the typical wage for a union board hanger
> $ 43 per hour wages
> $ 38 per hour benefits ( includes pension, annuity, vacation pay, full medical, full dental, full eye care and many other misc items)
> 
> That's $81 per hour. Make your choice.


So a Hanger makes $81 an hour with NO quota to reach each day/week, etc? Not trying to be a **** but I have worked at various other jobs over the years that were "union". Now days both places are closed & the 'union" let the company $hit all over us & did nothing. :furious:

:thumbdown:


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

what is expected from a union man is the same as any job, shut up do your job and give the boss a fair day, in most jobs the do nothings get weeded out rather quickly. I have seen my fair share of guys walking around and hiding but many many more just want to do their job and go home.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

d-rock said:


> OK. I see what's happening here. You guys don't understand how these trade unions work.
> Let me clarify. This is it in a nutshell. Cap'n, read it slowly...
> 
> A union carpenter frames and hangs sheetrock. He works for a PRIVATELY owned company, he is REPRESENTED by a union, which demands certain things from the boss in order to work. (much like an executive uses an attorney to hammer out a 'terms of employment' contract , same thing in fact)
> ...


 
I don't have to read slowly. However, you mihgt want to read the Declaration of Independence, or perhaps the Constitution SLOWLY.

I am an American, Capitalist,Libiterian

Your entire argument can be boiled down to this:

I am making WAY more than the market can bear, ain't that cool ??? As long as I can make more than the market is willing to pay, I think everyone should support me and tell me I'm doing the right thing.

I know what a union is, and what their intent is, I just disagree with their socialist approach. Why do you find the NEED to convince me/us to believe in your Markist ideoligy?? 


I'm more than happy as a scab. Why can't you just let it go ????


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

*It ain't the same as ...*

An executive using a lawyer to negotiate a contract. This is how warped Drocks view is. The company negotiating with the exec, they maybe can't come to terms. The company goes out and finds a different applicant. When a private construction company decides it cannot afford to or refuses to submit to a unions demands is then picketed by the union, billboards placed accusing theprivate company of worker abuse. Their equipment and site are vandalized. And it is called "collective" bargaining. Recognize the word "collective"? It's found right there in the dictionary, in the definition of.... Socialist.

A capitist business owner looks at this: hmmm, use labor for $81 an hour, who will only work 7 hours a day, picket and shut down the job if their panties get in a bunch. Or... Hire quality workers for half ( or less), cross the picket ignore the billboard and get the job done with 10 hour days as the GC robbed his schedule cuz the other union trades would ony work sevens and he's two weeks behind.

So the company owner, he's a capitalist. The union worker making 81 an hour is the same greedy pig as a GM auto worker. See how that played out? Proof positive of the un sustainability of labor costs of $80 plus help. The customer is so willing to pay these higher costs? Nah, he's been extorted so long he's used to it. But if he could 50% of his projects labor without the bad press, he'd sure hang on to that money. Or maybe in the USSR of NY, he doesn't know he has a choice.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

BTW, the union rate here is about $33 plus 11-13 burden. That is corroberated(sp) with a local member and the prevailing wage book.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

The quotas I refer to are maximum outputs, like don't hang over 30 sheets a day, etc. Two colleagues got on a union job and hung 30 before lunch and were made to hide out til quitting time.

And Drock, never did tell us how you and your capitalist brethren feel about your dues going to support Chairman Maobama and his pinko appointees. 

Or your recently awarded tax exemption for that CadillAc plan? Does it make you proud that your non-union neighbor gets to pay your share of taxes for the next eight or so years?

Cap'n, I think Drock has "capitalist" confused with "opportunist".:lol:


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

great responses from all..More on all this later. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just expressing a different point of view. The debate is excellent. I'll be back to hammer you guys later ESPECIALLY you Darren !! Peace Out..


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

What is it with you guys,what ever way you wan't to work.(days pay)


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> What is it with you guys,what ever way you wan't to work.(days pay)


Big George. the big deal is that we are on the edge of going either into a socialist country, or getting back to our roots as a REPUBLIC. I for one don't want to go to France or Canada or anywhere else. There are folks in our country like Drock, that want us to be FRANCE. There are a number of us, that don't want to see this happen.

There are bigger things than the price of drywall. Like the Principles that govern a country.

Peace:thumbup:


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

There are no principles governing our country, just 2 sides that pit every american against each other while both sides pick our pockets. Its in their best interest to have us constantly choose a side to get behind when in fact both sides refuse to fix what is fundamentally wrong. Confusion is a politicians best friend. The government never has our best interest at heart.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

fenez said:


> There are no principles governing our country, just 2 sides that pit every american against each other while both sides pick our pockets. Its in their best interest to have us constantly choose a side to get behind when in fact both sides refuse to fix what is fundamentally wrong. Confusion is a politicians best friend. The government never has our best interest at heart.


Fenz, you might want to read the constitution. Unless i've missed the mark,,, It IS the principles of our country. The Gov was never meant to be our sugar-daddy. Just cause both parties are acting like Unions, doesn't mean that the principles of this country are wrong !!!!


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

This country was founded on SLAVE LABOR! So not much has changed in our over 200 years of existence. Our government was never fair or honest, for people to say "I hate what our government has become" is utter bs. we are as corrupt if not more corrupt than any other government and always have been. It has always been every man for himself and continues to be that way, I am not fooled by all the current flag waving it is just a show for our benefit. Don't kid yourself into thinking that any party or politician will change for the better. ALL these guys are ivy league lawyers they are cut from the same cloth. Being that we are governed by lawyers they have a way of interpreting the constitution whenever it suits them.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Big George. the big deal is that we are on the edge of going either into a socialist country, or getting back to our roots as a REPUBLIC. I for one don't want to go to France or Canada or anywhere else. There are folks in our country like Drock, that want us to be FRANCE. There are a number of us, that don't want to see this happen.
> 
> There are bigger things than the price of drywall. Like the Principles that govern a country.
> 
> Peace:thumbup:


 For the record,I,am not up on your american issues.I just work for who ever and get paid for what I do,(piece work or by the hour).It's up to the customer,I'm in the boonies not in the city.:surrender:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> For the record,I,am not up on your american issues.I just work for who ever and get paid for what I do,(piece work or by the hour).It's up to the customer,I'm in the boonies not in the city.:surrender:


Me too Geprge, its called free enterprise, capitalism. I love it


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

fenez said:


> This country was founded on SLAVE LABOR! So not much has changed in our over 200 years of existence. Our government was never fair or honest, for people to say "I hate what our government has become" is utter bs. we are as corrupt if not more corrupt than any other government and always have been. It has always been every man for himself and continues to be that way, I am not fooled by all the current flag waving it is just a show for our benefit. Don't kid yourself into thinking that any party or politician will change for the better. ALL these guys are ivy league lawyers they are cut from the same cloth. Being that we are governed by lawyers they have a way of interpreting the constitution whenever it suits them.


You sir are ignorant of history. Slavery was wrong and a bad mark on this country, but it was not the founding factor of this country. Its hard to dicuss things with people that want to re-write history.

Peace Comrade


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

see captn I could just make a point of saying that when there are no unions in place it makes it very easy to take advantage of the workers such as the mining accident that just happened, you know the one where the 25 under paid miners were working for a company that over 3000 violations, that my friend is why there is still a need for a union. while I am not a union contractor I still see why there is a place for unionized labor, simply because most companies don't care about the people that work for them. Before you say that this is just a single thing that rarely happens let me inform you that there has been a rash of non union crane and scaffolding accidents in NYC.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

fenez said:


> see captn I could just make a point of saying that when there are no unions in place it makes it very easy to take advantage of the workers such as the mining accident that just happened, you know the one where the 25 under paid miners were working for a company that over 3000 violations, that my friend is why there is still a need for a union. while I am not a union contractor I still see why there is a place for unionized labor, simply because most companies don't care about the people that work for them. Before you say that this is just a single thing that rarely happens let me inform you that there has been a rash of non union crane and scaffolding accidents in NYC.


Check this out comrade,,,, I don't concern myself about how the boss feels about me. I don't expect him go "out of his way" to cater to my candy ass. If I take the job, I take the risk. Maybe you should have stayed in day-school


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

All well and good but when a boss breaks the law and you lose your life because of it I would say that would squarely put the blame on him, I am sure you are not blaming the miners for their bosses flagrant disregard of the regulations in favor of making profits.


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

Giving what the captn said some thought, lets see if I got this right, it is perfectly ok if a huge company asserts its power over its workers with total disregard for there welfare while breaking the law. That is exactly what communism is and since you agree with that kind of dogma that would make you a communist. Got it comrade?


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Gents,
If you have to be an employee for a company, better to work in good conditions with higher pay and benefits. If you were given the choice why would you work for less ? THAT IS NOT CAPITALISM. That's just stupid.
I worked non union for a long time, it was paycheck to paycheck, none of the guys had their own houses or decent cars, forget about retirement packages. The boss, on the other hand, had a great house, new boat, new truck (all of which he deserved for his hard work and risk). He made himself wealthy with his business. Excellent, that is the american way. 
I figured the employees played a part in that, so why not treat them better ? Why pay some guys 170 per day , and also have illegals in the company working for 120, then when it gets slow, lay off the the guys that get paid more. Illegals still working.
Is that right ? I got sick of breaking my but and not being properly compensated. So i did what any red blooded capitalist would do, I left for a better job. I joined the union and earned 70k my first year, 100K the second year. I bought a house and a new car.
Now, this non-sense about quotas that is getting tossed around is a giant load of BS. It's an outright lie. It seems the guys that most knock the unions are the ones that never did it. I'm not knocking non union work, I'm just saying , it seems every non union guy has a giant chip on their shoulder about unions. The stereotypes just get reinforced. Now mind you, i'm not talking public sector unions, which do nothing to contribute to a profit base. Private companies, with productive , profit creating employees. If my employees make me rich, then I should treat them right.
So you guys carry on about socialism and communisim, when in fact, i believe you have NO IDEA what those things really are. I think perhaps you've listened to a little to much talk radio ( which i do as well) and formulated these strong opinions based on your misfortunes and missteps. Is eveything about unions great ? NO. Are they corruptable ? YES. That's human nature. But look how helpful they have been for people. Especially all of us. wether you realize it or not. ALL of the basic construction safety standards come from unions. The methodology, and development of new products and technology in construction comes in conjunction with the trade unions. The standards of wages come from trade unions. Though i'm sure some of you guys still pay 100 per day for a 10 hr day...
Finally, I will say this again, I left a union job to start my own business. I did this b/c I am a capitalist, and b/c I feel it is my duty to my parents who immigrated here from a communist eastern european nation. I could tell you first hand what life is like in those places. I could tell you first hand what American freedom and oppurtunity means to a family like ours.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Whoa! Last I checked, Massey was a UMWA shop. So why didn't the union squeal about those violations. I may be pretty opinionated about the trade unions, but was nearly a third generation digger myself. If MSHA and the union both allowed this operator to rack up violations and ultimately kill 25 miners, then ya think there wasn't some payola going on? Dad, granddad, my uncles, were all surface miners, but some had been done in the lead mines and swore off ever being underground again.

All that said, china loses more miners in a single accident, often up to 200, than the US does in 25 years. Massey may be a bad player here. I'd never heard of them being habitual violators, but what do I know? I do find it odd there were 100's of violations and the UMWA had to know also. That the union didn't strike or exert pressure otherwise, I think says something.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Drock, you think the quota talk is all BS and say because I'm not a card carrier, I have no idea? I've heard this same max output quota stuff for 15 years, maybe it's all second hand, but rumors do not circulate for that long without there being quite a bit of truth to it. 

You also stated you are not now a union shop. Does this mean you do not pay your workers $81 an hour right now? Or you do pay it? For the record, until the slow down, all my men were paid near scale on wages and over on bennies. Dear brother went into the painters union and lost his holiday and vacation pay and quite a few other perks. He does now earn, after two years, a higher wage, but still no holiday or vacation.

And I'll quit trying to educate you on the definition and proliferation of Socialism. Talk radio did not write the definition, history did. None of us can change history, as badly as the Progressives want to. So if "collective" bargaining and all the union tenets are Socialism to you, please live in the bliss of your ignorance. I will not sacrifice my morals.

By that I mean, I wouldn't sit through a union meeting and hear the steward tell me how I ought to vote. Not without, if I were a true Capitalist, standing up and stating that I'll vote for who I damn well please. So maybe change your label to "closet Capitalist".


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

A dedicated Teamsters union worker was attending a convention in Las
Vegas and decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the
first one, he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?"
*** 
"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."
*** 
"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
*** 
"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she answered
*** 
Offended at such unfair dealings, the union man stomped off down the
street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His
search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam
responded, "Why yes sir, this is a union ho use.
*** 
We observe all union rules."
*** 
The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" "The
girls get $80 and the house gets $20."
*** 
"That's more like it!" the union man said.
*** 
He handed the Madam $100, looked around the room, and pointed to a
stunningly attractive blonde.
*** 
"I'd like her," he said.
*** 
"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam. Then she gestured to a
*** 
92-year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has 67 years seniority
and according to union rules, she's next."


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Awsome,cant stop laughing , You pretty much summed it up Darren!! JOHN


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

I'am lost.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

D-rock, I think you said it all, when you said that when you were working, you worked for the union cause you made 100K, but when you started your own shop, you went non-union.

Can't get much more cynical or hypocritical than that!

Workers of the world unite !!!!!!!! Karl Marz and SEIU and Obama


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Whoa! Last I checked, Massey was a UMWA shop. So why didn't the union squeal about those violations. I may be pretty opinionated about the trade unions, but was nearly a third generation digger myself. If MSHA and the union both allowed this operator to rack up violations and ultimately kill 25 miners, then ya think there wasn't some payola going on? Dad, granddad, my uncles, were all surface miners, but some had been done in the lead mines and swore off ever being underground again.
> 
> All that said, china loses more miners in a single accident, often up to 200, than the US does in 25 years. Massey may be a bad player here. I'd never heard of them being habitual violators, but what do I know? I do find it odd there were 100's of violations and the UMWA had to know also. That the union didn't strike or exert pressure otherwise, I think says something.


The upper branch mine is a non union mine.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

i'll stay with being a sub/contractor...you can get your retirement when you die in the union and i'll take mine now d-rock

scale here is not that high and yes...i gross 2x what the average union finisher makes here

you may want to check and i'm not calling you a liar by any means, but most union "shops" have to supply there own tools...per osha standards...meaning, that if an employee brings there own tools on site and gets a violation, it goes on the company...so they provide there own tools and have a safety coordinator that makes sure everything is on par....I could be wrong but this is what I heard from a union guy that worked for me when he was LAID OFF...get that a lot around here too


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## mudman55 (May 18, 2010)

*where are the overseas jobs ..*

can u tell me how to get an oversea job have apassport ready to go ..works sucks in californiasend anemail to mudman [email protected] thanks


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## mudman55 (May 18, 2010)

*oversea work*

how do you get ajob ..need to work real bad no work here in california ,email david @mudman55 @yahoo.com thanks


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