# Air holes



## suncoast drywaller (Sep 4, 2009)

Have had some trouble with air holes in my internal angles .Have run them with the mudrunner and noticed when some of them have had a coat of paint there is all these holes . I think it may be haveing the mud too runny .Most are only tiny not much bigger than a pin head . It has only had one coat so far and this was sprayed on which doesnt help much, better brushed on .Any advice would be appreciated


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

you will half to explain what angle head combination's you are using 1st ,then someone can help better.one thing that can affect you is type of mud you use too,taping mud/all purpose mud or finishing mud


----------



## suncoast drywaller (Sep 4, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> you will half to explain what angle head combination's you are using 1st ,then someone can help better.one thing that can affect you is type of mud you use too,taping mud/all purpose mud or finishing mud


I run tape with bazooka then roll then coat with 3inch angle head on mudrunner .I then second coat with 2 inch angle head on mudrunner . The mud is lafage all purpose . Cheers.


----------



## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

Sounds like a cheap watered down drywall primer and if it s only been sprayed I wouldn t be too concerned. A big part of a good taping job is the painting. I have run into this problem lots recently, but only on walls that have been sprayed and not brushed and backrolled. 
Mudding Drywall is not perfect and will never be. If people are sticking there nose far enough into an unbrushed corner to find those tiny little air bubbles then you are not getting paid enough to do your job or need to charge more and do extra coats. You will still get air bubbles with extra coats though if the painters are using cheap tools, products, and procedures.


----------



## proficient Mudder (Aug 28, 2010)

suncoast drywaller said:


> I run tape with bazooka then roll then coat with 3inch angle head on mudrunner .I then second coat with 2 inch angle head on mudrunner . The mud is lafage all purpose . Cheers.


Put some soap detergent in it . a first time fill coat over wet tape and paint will leave the holes. after they dry and you run them again, the pin holes should go away.

Bill


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Could be that the pinholes are there from the first coat and the next coat is only putting a skin over top and not filling the holes completely?


----------



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

suncoast drywaller said:


> Have had some trouble with air holes in my internal angles .Have run them with the mudrunner and noticed when some of them have had a coat of paint there is all these holes . I think it may be haveing the mud too runny .Most are only tiny not much bigger than a pin head . It has only had one coat so far and this was sprayed on which doesnt help much, better brushed on .Any advice would be appreciated


Sound like a paint reaction to the type of mud your using something like putting latex on oil paint


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

suncoast drywaller said:


> Have had some trouble with air holes in my internal angles .Have run them with the mudrunner and noticed when some of them have had a coat of paint there is all these holes . I think it may be haveing the mud too runny .Most are only tiny not much bigger than a pin head . It has only had one coat so far and this was sprayed on which doesnt help much, better brushed on .Any advice would be appreciated


 
Hi suncoast

Im plastering and painting a new home at the moment and i did my internals with the mudrunner as well using a DM 3.5 for first coat and then a DM 2.5 for the second,

Then sprayed the sealer/undercoat with a heavy coat as i hate thin sealer coats and i have some tiny pinholes as you mentioned as well but for some reason mostly on the walls not the ceilings, and hardly any in the stand up corners??? its square stopped not coved, im not bothered about them as when i brush them they will fill up, I used sheetrock Total.
Sprayed the ceilings out today and cant see any, looks great.

I think its just going to fast with the mudrunner and over running the flow of mud, and maybe not keeping the head nice and square and even into the corner so the blades are pushed back evenly, you can kinda favour one side of the angle head, hence to much mud and not enough pressure on one side, depanding on ceiling height as well, this house has higher ceilings in the living areas than the rest of the house and its these areas that seem to have the pin holes and i had to reach more so the mudrunner was not at a nice 45degree to the corners, i had the mud same as bazooka mud and it flowed well for me but the captian seems to really thin his out, you can really go quick with the runner so maybe just slow it down a little and dont go so fast, let the mud get in there nice and even at a steady pace. The action of the runner trying to hold twist and go can kinda put you off and not hold it square and true unlike a angle box which needs to held firm and square and pushed in the corner to get it happening, with the runner it can be a very light push in the corner and you still got mud, heaps of it.

How many times are you running the runner in one corner to get it done??? you can overdo it and it starts getting a little messy, i try to get the corner done with the least amount of passes i can. My pin holes are only where i used the 2.5 in the corner not on the outside edges.

If its a thin sealer coat then this wont help either, I dont think its a paint reaction though. mud and paint is all fairly stable, even if it has wd40 or other lubes in it from the tools, this does not seem to affect it and maybe a couple of teaspoons of sunlight liquid will help, i have done this a few times for mudding over painted surfaces to help stop the air bubbles and it works ok.

The captain is the mudrunner king so hopefully he will read this and chime in.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

your angle head combination's are fine,go one step up above your all purpose mud.the painters whine about the little pin holes in our neck of the woods.our solution was to mix some lite weight mud in with the all purpose mud,problem was solved,asumming your using mechanical heads.
or you can higher cazna to do your painting,those little pin holes are acceptable to him


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Gee guys, I'm no expert, but I have figured a few things out.

Consider this,,, If you hand run a corner with USG and a four inch knife, it will leave air bubbles. If you hand run a corner with G mud from Magnum with a 6" knife, it will not leave ANY air bubbles.

It's the MUD,,,,,, let me say that again,,, its the MUD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If your haveing problems with air pockets, running the corners the way you are saying,,,,,,, oh yeah,, you said your using La Farge,,,,, Its the MUD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm not

Peace


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

So USG is crap then, So what about easy finish from national gypsum, Hows that run???


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

odd,what did my 1st post state,the mud,then whats my second post say to do????????
most company's make three types of mud,taping,all purpose,then topping/FINISHING mud.guess which one you use????
every country different with their products but the principles are the same,was just stating in 2nd post that throwing a few scoops of the expensive mud,,,,in with the all purpose,will give you same results,,,,and save you some money too,we use same mud for nail spotter too!!!last coat,more easy to sand IMO


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

:notworthy: I guess i should listen to you the man 2buck more often then :thumbsup:


But no way are you going to get me to sand my undercoat with 100G :hang:


----------



## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

cazna said:


> :notworthy: I guess i should listen to you the man 2buck more often then :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> But no way are you going to get me to sand my undercoat with 100G :hang:


It the 100grit was worn out enough, it likely does do fine for them. Remember, some of these guys talk about "conditioning" their coarse pads a piece of metal corner bead before they start work. That's got to take a lot of the rough edges off.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Saul_Surfaces said:


> It the 100grit was worn out enough, it likely does do fine for them. Remember, some of these guys talk about "conditioning" their coarse pads a piece of metal corner bead before they start work. That's got to take a lot of the rough edges off.


hey ,,,,,,them dare canuck secrets eh,dont be telling the whole world,,,,,,,basically ,100 grit will become 220,not that i use 100 grit,but paper does dull :whistling2:

if i was to start sanding with 120 ,what would i sand 1st ????? hhhmmmmmm


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I use to rub a couple of 100g peices together to were em down for clear varnishing timber doors, still had to be carefull as the scratches can show so its hardly a trick or secret, The idea is 100g worn down will last longer than 220g fresh so you save money on the paper, good for you if its your thing, :blink:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

grasshopper,your missing the point if you think it's the paper that your saving money on,it's dealing with speed/production,think grasshopper......
If someone told me I had to sand out a house with 220,I would want more money ,,,,why???


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> grasshopper,your missing the point if you think it's the paper that your saving money on,it's dealing with speed/production,think grasshopper......
> If someone told me I had to sand out a house with 220,I would want more money ,,,,why???


 
Why grasshopper???, becouse it will take you more time and harder work to sand out a house with 220g than worn 100g or there abouts grit.

I dont seem to find it takes to long with 220g at all, but your 48 and im 34 so your years experance are far greater than mine, all be it with different products though.

Actually i just remembered another reason why sanding mud and paint with course papers gives me the heeby geebys, (thats shivers up my spine) or feeling of dread etc etc.

As someone who sometimes paints his his own work i see it from start to end, even with full lights, day, night, man made etc,
Now as i see it finished drywall has 3 different surfaces to it, at a level 4 finish anyway, one surface is the sanded mud, another surface is the bare unsanded wallboard, and the other very important surface is the sanded board at the edge of the mudded join, Now if you use too ruffer paper then once the wall is painted these 3 surfaces will show through, the over sanded boardpaper at the edge can show very nasty if the sealer is not a nice full coat and carefully smooth sanded down.

I had a guy working with me once who was a moody bugger, he would sulk sometimes and we were using 150g on the sh!t nz mud, well he would push to hard and oversand the arse out of the edges, then it looked terrable once painted, thats prob why i have stuck to 220g grits and think anyone who uses ruffer papers will do the same, but it not the case at all for you experanced guys im picking, still seems crazy though?
Our wallboard use to have quite a textured paper on it so the smooth mud then oversanded edges and orange peel board paper use to be quite nasty, worse if a thin sealer coat was used and not smooth sanded carefully, that full sealer was so important, if you ruff or over sanded it away then it was ruined, yuk.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

grass hopper,it's from the tv show kung fu in the 1970's,grass hopper was the newbie,and the masters taught him,heres 2 youtube links 



 



when he could walk the rice paper with out tearing it,and snatch a pebble from his masters hands ,he too became a master,it was a really good show,excellent show
and by the way ,was at a house today sanding out a garage,painters weren't there inside of house ,but their pole sanders were.I checked what paper they had on them, one had 100 grit,one had 80 grit .......just saying


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Forgive me master, As i am a 1976 model and barely a twinkle im my old mans ball bag at such times, i shall not realise these things, sorry for the insult of calling you grasshopper dear master.

Grasshopper still no understand master, grasshopper not going to ruin a wall to find out if such grits are true master, Grasshopper thinks all you canuks are mad and need new glasses master?? :thumbup:

Maybe time for a new thread master??? What grit sandpapers you into master???


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Why grasshopper???, becouse it will take you more time and harder work to sand out a house with 220g than worn 100g or there abouts grit.
> 
> I dont seem to find it takes to long with 220g at all, but your 48 and im 34 so your years experance are far greater than mine, all be it with different products though.
> 
> ...


 If your scared,,,,, say your scared !!!!!!

Sorry to bust your balls like that, but 100 grit will NOT mess your walls up, why do you think painters use it???


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If your scared,,,,, say your scared !!!!!!
> 
> Sorry to bust your balls like that, but 100 grit will NOT mess your walls up, why do you think painters use it???


Im a trade cert painter, fully quailfied, bust my balls all you like, 100g is for wooden windows frames to clean off old paint, exterior of houses, doors frames etc, not drywall mud or walls. Nope not backing down, sticking to this one, working great for me, top work, as 2buck and mudstar so wonderfully put it, I have a system and im sticking to it as i know the other results, All due respect master Capt.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Im a trade cert painter, fully quailfied, bust my balls all you like, 100g is for wooden windows frames to clean off old paint, exterior of houses, doors frames etc, not drywall mud or walls. Nope not backing down, sticking to this one, working great for me, top work, as 2buck and mudstar so wonderfully put it, I have a system and im sticking to it as i know the other results, All due respect master Capt.


 LOL, go ahead, butt with your own head,,,,

I'll drink a beer to ya at home tomarrow evening and think about you still there sanding away with toilet paper.


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> LOL, go ahead, butt with your own head,,,,
> 
> I'll drink a beer to ya at home tomarrow evening and think about you still there sanding away with toilet paper.


 
Ah ha ha, dam your a cool older dude capt,:thumbup: I would love to hang with you for a weeks work and neck a couple a light beers for lunch each day, but im prob not man or worthy enough as i add lemonade to it to make a shandy  But you would still crack me up takin the piss out of me for it anyway , All the best Master Capt :thumbsup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Ah ha ha, dam your a cool older dude capt,:thumbup: I would love to hang with you for a weeks work and neck a couple a light beers for lunch each day, but im prob not man or worthy enough as i add lemonade to it to make a shandy  But you would still crack me up takin the piss out of me for it anyway , All the best Master Capt :thumbsup:


 Thanks man,,, I love this site and this trade. Since I'm old, wore out, and at about the end of it,,, I can laugh at myself and you guys for taking things WAY too serious.

I agree with you, I'd love to get all of us together and put a cooler full of beer out, let us all get a buzz and THEN talk about whats up !!!!

Now that would be a REAL cluster,,,ya know,,,,:thumbsup:


----------



## suncoast drywaller (Sep 4, 2009)

For me I just use 180 grit ,have used 220 on my sander . Would not even think of using any grit less than 180 because it works so well for me and the price of sanding pads dont cost the earth . Had a go with the mudrunner yesterday taped out the intinernals I just put a tiny squirt of soap in the mud and it seemed to work well :yes:
e02699f2-6ef1-42ee-b41f-67b48cd0d227
1.03.01


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Im a trade cert painter, fully quailfied, bust my balls all you like, 100g is for wooden windows frames to clean off old paint, exterior of houses, doors frames etc, not drywall mud or walls. Nope not backing down, sticking to this one, working great for me, top work, as 2buck and mudstar so wonderfully put it, I have a system and im sticking to it as i know the other results, All due respect master Capt.


Im a trade cert painter, fully quailfied,,,,what ta?????oh my god,Grasshopper is a PAINTER someone ban him :jester:
here's what it it takes to be a master








looks like it took him years :yes:


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Yup, I did my apprentiship as a painter master, but did the polytech course on drywall and got heaps of work, always favoured the drywall over the paint, less BS to deal with, but i have kept it at around 70% plaster, 30% paint, good to mix things up a bit, keeps it interesting.


Its just to much fun tearing the rice paper so i think i will stick around, keep tearing and keep on your case master, someone has to keep you in line :thumbsup:


How much drywall and paint do you do capt?? more or less drywall over the paint???


----------



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> grass hopper,it's from the tv show kung fu in the 1970's,grass hopper was the newbie,and the masters taught him,heres 2 youtube links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyJRXvPNRo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L156XHjoDL0&feature=related
> when he could walk the rice paper with out tearing it,and snatch a pebble from his masters hands ,he too became a master,it was a really good show,excellent show
> and by the way ,was at a house today sanding out a garage,painters weren't there inside of house ,but their pole sanders were.I checked what paper they had on them, one had 100 grit,one had 80 grit .......just saying


 Was a great show!

:notworthy:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Yup, I did my apprentiship as a painter master, but did the polytech course on drywall and got heaps of work, always favoured the drywall over the paint, less BS to deal with, but i have kept it at around 70% plaster, 30% paint, good to mix things up a bit, keeps it interesting.
> 
> 
> Its just to much fun tearing the rice paper so i think i will stick around, keep tearing and keep on your case master, someone has to keep you in line :thumbsup:
> ...


 This last year, I have been doing almost all paint. I might just quit doing drywall and just paint, its so much easier and way less work. 

I have a friend/partner that I work alot with. He is a hand finisher (he's my friend, but he is a dummy) This last year, since we got CHANGE (we voted for it ya know) drywall is so cheap that the mexicans won't even do it, so I went to painting. I can cut a painter by 1/2 and still make more than a drywaller cause i do paint at the rate/speed that I do drywall.

Ain't life a beach???


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> This last year, I have been doing almost all paint. I might just quit doing drywall and just paint, its so much easier and way less work.
> 
> I have a friend/partner that I work alot with. He is a hand finisher (he's my friend, but he is a dummy) This last year, since we got CHANGE (we voted for it ya know) drywall is so cheap that the mexicans won't even do it, so I went to painting. I can cut a painter by 1/2 and still make more than a drywaller cause i do paint at the rate/speed that I do drywall.
> 
> Ain't life a beach???


Thats interesting, its all around the same rates for both for me, but this year and last summer the painting side did seem to work out better yet years before that paint was so undercut it was the plaster i got by on.
Funny that, or im prob wiseing up to a few things as well.
Sounds like the drywall rates are screwed down bad in some areas for you guys.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Thats interesting, its all around the same rates for both for me, but this year and last summer the painting side did seem to work out better yet years before that paint was so undercut it was the plaster i got by on.
> Funny that, or im prob wiseing up to a few things as well.
> Sounds like the drywall rates are screwed down bad in some areas for you guys.


Really it comes and it goes, get alot of painters, and the price drops, same for drywall. You have to learn a few trades so that you can roll around and do what is profitable. All our trades are really just suppy and demand.


----------



## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Really it comes and it goes, get alot of painters, and the price drops, same for drywall. You have to learn a few trades so that you can roll around and do what is profitable. All our trades are really just suppy and demand.


i'm with ya capt...ive found the mexicans dont like metal studs....so ive been doing more framing than drywall lately too


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Knowing more than one trade does a cpl things for ya, 
1) It keeps you working at whichever is paying better
2) It allows you to pass on a job that is underpaid, letting the GC know that you won't cut your price just cause he's got ya by the cahonnes.


----------



## proficient Mudder (Aug 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Knowing more than one trade does a cpl things for ya,
> 1) It keeps you working at whichever is paying better
> 2) It allows you to pass on a job that is underpaid, letting the GC know that you won't cut your price just cause he's got ya by the cahonnes.


I have never tried a different trade, just bounced from yrs of residential to Commercial because of job offered during slow average in the houses. I wish at different times i would have done something else just to change routine. I do side work every chance i get which include new houses and remodels but I sure miss the Money I use to average. I was actually just asked by the guy I use to subcontract for, if I would come back because they are covered up with alot of work and as much as I want to, I am afraid it will just be one of those short term phases and than I will lose my Foreman job. I am very glad I am working because there is alot that isn't.

Bill


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Knowing more than one trade does a cpl things for ya,
> 1) It keeps you working at whichever is paying better
> 2) It allows you to pass on a job that is underpaid, letting the GC know that you won't cut your price just cause he's got ya by the cahonnes.


 
Being a painter and a plasterer has defenitly worked for me, almost too well as i got so much work, all of a sudden i was self employed, Always had too much and to many people at me for jobs, that can get a bit stressfull and hard to get time out, but if i had no work for that would be worse, Keeps things interesting though, My last house i used, bazooka, mudrunner, boxes, pc sander, etc, then airless sprayer, and hvlp sprayer,
See Capt, im still learning and always will be, Do you use Airless and hvlp for any spraying work??


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Being a painter and a plasterer has defenitly worked for me, almost too well as i got so much work, all of a sudden i was self employed, Always had too much and to many people at me for jobs, that can get a bit stressfull and hard to get time out, but if i had no work for that would be worse, Keeps things interesting though, My last house i used, bazooka, mudrunner, boxes, pc sander, etc, then airless sprayer, and hvlp sprayer,
> See Capt, im still learning and always will be, Do you use Airless and hvlp for any spraying work??


here's the site your looking for ,it's called paint talk http://www.painttalk.com/


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Being a painter and a plasterer has defenitly worked for me, almost too well as i got so much work, all of a sudden i was self employed, Always had too much and to many people at me for jobs, that can get a bit stressfull and hard to get time out, but if i had no work for that would be worse, Keeps things interesting though, My last house i used, bazooka, mudrunner, boxes, pc sander, etc, then airless sprayer, and hvlp sprayer,
> See Capt, im still learning and always will be, Do you use Airless and hvlp for any spraying work??


 I use airless, I have a diaphram srayer (30 years old) that I use for my power roller. I have a spraytech rig from Blowes that I spray (paint)with, and a Graco mark IV that I use for level 5. 

Never used a hvlp. I have seen some fine work done with em, but I never got into any cab work, so have not had a call for em.

If I wasn't too old to move at a resonable speed,, lol,, I'd like to try the air-assit sprayers,,, You ought to look into them, they are the up and coming in the field.


----------



## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Any of you guys not priming your own work should look into it--- one day of spraying @ normal sqft rate will make some excellent money--Ive sprayed and backrolled my work for 31 years and there is great money in it


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

DSJOHN said:


> Any of you guys not priming your own work should look into it--- one day of spraying @ normal sqft rate will make some excellent money--Ive sprayed and backrolled my work for 31 years and there is great money in it


 YES, Absolutely, You are right,,,,, 

And there are alot of painters that welcome a decent primed job for them,,, it releases them from haveing to prep and clean the job, and it also releases them from haveing to "back-roll" the prime coat,,,,, why they think thats a "loss",,, I still can't figure out,,, but they do.

It also realeases the GC from haveing to argue back and forth between the painter and you about who is "responsible" for cleaning and preping the job for the PAINTERS.


----------

