# taping tools



## rrisky (Dec 15, 2007)

We getting into using taping tools like boxes bazooka all that good stuff, we have a 12" and 10" box Now Im gussing u would use the 12" box for your buttjoints and the 10" for ur factory joints, Im just looking for validation on my question. and any taping tool tips that would help me use these tools better. Thanks Dennis THUNDER CONSTRUCTION


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## savant (Dec 19, 2007)

Hey, Dennis.
There are people who do it that way. But alot of folks use the boxes in layers. There's a dozen deciding factors to determine the way you use your boxes. Things such as the quality you are aiming for, whether you use a back-blocking device, whether you use only drying compounds, or a mix of drying and setting, how straight your framing is (in-house/subcontract & new/remodel) etc. Most guys are subs doing remodeling (they swear by layering.) You have to learn what's appropriate for you.


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## pacesafety (Jan 22, 2008)

Depends on how many coats you're going to do, but at my company we usually came through on the top coat with a 10" box for all the seams, including butt-joints.

On the Skim coat, we would go over everything with the 12" box and split the butt-joints.


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

rrisky said:


> We getting into using taping tools like boxes bazooka all that good stuff, we have a 12" and 10" box Now Im gussing u would use the 12" box for your buttjoints and the 10" for ur factory joints, Im just looking for validation on my question. and any taping tool tips that would help me use these tools better. Thanks Dennis THUNDER CONSTRUCTION


Hey Dennis,

The 10" and 12" are the most popular combination, 10" for first coat and 12" for skim. Run the 10" with mud as thick as you can comfortably run, and set your dial at 2 or 3. Set on 1 for butts, and run down the middle or to the low side. Try to run the box with pressure focused on the blade and you will learn to run it well enough to not wipe down behind it.

Run the 12" over that with mud slightly thinner and a dial setting at 3 or 4. Split the butts on 2. You can find some video on YouTube here:





 
jdl


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

1wallboardsman said:


> Hey Dennis,
> 
> The 10" and 12" are the most popular combination, 10" for first coat and 12" for skim. Run the 10" with mud as thick as you can comfortably run, and set your dial at 2 or 3. Set on 1 for butts, and run down the middle or to the low side. Try to run the box with pressure focused on the blade and you will learn to run it well enough to not wipe down behind it.
> 
> ...


If I set my 10" box at 2 or 3 it crowns too much. A good test for your boxes is to do a run down a flat. Wipe behind it with a 10 or 12" knife, if you are pulling off too much mud then adjust your box acordingly. Sometimes you will actually have to adjust the brass blade holder itself or mess with the bolts on the spring tension. Best done on a slow week.


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

taper71 said:


> If I set my 10" box at 2 or 3 it crowns too much. A good test for your boxes is to do a run down a flat. Wipe behind it with a 10 or 12" knife, if you are pulling off too much mud then adjust your box acordingly. Sometimes you will actually have to adjust the brass blade holder itself or mess with the bolts on the spring tension. Best done on a slow week.


Several manufacturers are "pre-bowing" the brass blade holder these days, this typically leaves more crown then what is desirable at any given setting. If going to 4 and 5 on the dial does not put enough tension on the blade, then you should turn the adjusting nuts up on the tension bolts. Always take care to adjust these evenly.

For ultimate flat flats, with the least time and work, switch to the 7" and 10" combination, you will be shocked at the quality for the quickness.

jdl


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## butcherman (Jan 26, 2008)

Following behind with a 10" or 12" knife is the way we do it (like taper 71 suggests) it also gets rid of that marshmellow texture. I know someone will say put more water in it. It just shrinks too much to get the proper fill. As for butt joints we run the 10" box on the fill side on tape coat. And then build out accordingly.


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

butcherman said:


> Following behind with a 10" or 12" knife is the way we do it (like taper 71 suggests) it also gets rid of that marshmellow texture. I know someone will say put more water in it. It just shrinks too much to get the proper fill. As for butt joints we run the 10" box on the fill side on tape coat. And then build out accordingly.


Wiping down behind flat boxes is a good deal if you have time to kill and like hanging around the job doing make-work operations. I wouldn't say put more water in the mud, but I would say to leave your knife in the bucket so that you could learn to run a flatbox well.

Running a flatbox is one thing, finishing with one takes some technique that you can never acquire while you wipe down behind it.

jdl


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

1wallboardsman said:


> Wiping down behind flat boxes is a good deal if you have time to kill and like hanging around the job doing make-work operations. I wouldn't say put more water in the mud, but I would say to leave your knife in the bucket so that you could learn to run a flatbox well.
> 
> Running a flatbox is one thing, finishing with one takes some technique that you can never acquire while you wipe down behind it.
> 
> jdl


 
Im sorry please forgive our limited knowledge of finishing. I now realize that you are far superior than any of us here and look forward to you teaching us the best way to do our trade. Please continue to dazzle us with your vast experience. I assume that there is no need to sand your work as well?


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## elkhutr (Feb 3, 2008)

1wallboardsman's right. You should be able to finish with a box that's the way I was taught. No you shouldn't have to sand your work, if you do it's only a couple of spots.
The same goes for touch up...When I taped we didn't get the floor dirty either, and our cloths where clean. But that's the way I taught.


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## butcherman (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey no offense here. The truth is boxes are great to use. Following up with a knife is actually a time saver. Would you run a banjo without some one following. I know it's totaly different but the point is the same. You could do it but the next step becomes more difficult. You save more time on touch up later. I touch up with a clip light trust me when i tell you there is a difference. Especialy if you finish with light weight, not so much with mid-weight. The bottom line is i don't care what your technique is the material sits the way it sits. I don't have to follow up, the results are better when i do. I'm ten years on the box. My opinion is follow up. Respectfully do what you feel is best. If your way works for you than go for it.


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

taper71 said:


> Im sorry please forgive our limited knowledge of finishing. I now realize that you are far superior than any of us here and look forward to you teaching us the best way to do our trade. Please continue to dazzle us with your vast experience. I assume that there is no need to sand your work as well?


Don't be ridiculous, every job could use a half hour brush off on the back end. I'm shocked that the Canadians that used to winter in S. Fla didn't teach you any of this. How many good tool men have you got in Alberta these days??

jdl


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

butcherman said:


> Hey no offense here. The truth is boxes are great to use. Following up with a knife is actually a time saver. Would you run a banjo without some one following. I know it's totaly different but the point is the same. You could do it but the next step becomes more difficult. You save more time on touch up later. I touch up with a clip light trust me when i tell you there is a difference. Especialy if you finish with light weight, not so much with mid-weight. The bottom line is i don't care what your technique is the material sits the way it sits. I don't have to follow up, the results are better when i do. I'm ten years on the box. My opinion is follow up. Respectfully do what you feel is best. If your way works for you than go for it.


I'm 35 years on the box, same with the taper, so I wouldn't be using a banjo. I learned the trade back when it was competitive and you had to do the work well, and make a living doing it for $1.92 per board. Nobody would be so kind as to pencil whip you, they would just say that your job isn't ready and if you asked what is wrong with it, they told you that you were the finisher, you figure it out and fix it. They didn't care if it took you another week. Of course, once you were done, you were still fired for taking so long.

Then there were the guys that you had to compete with for work, they would finish 500 sheets in 40 hours and not tell you a damn thing about how they did it. Most of that knowledge is lost now.

jdl


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## Crazytaper (Feb 23, 2008)

1wallboardsman said:


> Several manufacturers are "pre-bowing" the brass blade holder these days, this typically leaves more crown then what is desirable at any given setting. If going to 4 and 5 on the dial does not put enough tension on the blade, then you should turn the adjusting nuts up on the tension bolts. Always take care to adjust these evenly.
> 
> For ultimate flat flats, with the least time and work, switch to the 7" and 10" combination, you will be shocked at the quality for the quickness.
> 
> jdl


I have to say I agree 100% with your methods of boxing. I also use the 7" and 10" boxing system. I will use a 10" and 12" on commercial though.


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

1wallboardsman said:


> Don't be ridiculous, every job could use a half hour brush off on the back end. I'm shocked that the Canadians that used to winter in S. Fla didn't teach you any of this. How many good tool men have you got in Alberta these days??
> 
> jdl


We dont have many. I think you better come up here and teach us igloo dwellers the way.


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## elkhutr (Feb 3, 2008)

1wallboardsman - you ever heard of jim ewing he did a few hotels in Fl in the 70's.


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

WW1 is here. There is no right way boys. There is only what works best for you and the people that are paying you. I dont care what my subs do as long as it is flat and smooth in the end. My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door. 

When hiring anyone with expierence I listen to all of their ideas before shutting them down. I have learned a few things over the years keeping my ears open also. The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself. Just my two cents.

Nate


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

This reminds me of a guy years ago here in my hometown. Said he was the "Premier taper in town" he said he was so good in fact that he didn't even get mud on the wheels of his tube when taping. My reply was I bet you dont need to wipe your a55 when you take a poo poo either. Takes all kinds, always has, always will.

Nate


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

Its not WW1. I just really have a hard time with the guys who think they are right and have to argue the point till there blue in the face. I have no doubt that 1wallboardman has alot of knowledge and is very experienced in this trade. What I have a problem with is the arrogance. I wipe behind my boxes for the same reason that butcherman stated. I spent years not wiping behind the boxes because I can finish without having too, but my experience now is that I have way less sanding and the job looks way better when I do wipe and that saves me lots of time. At the end of the day the job looks like the way it is supposed too, I have made money and the customer is happy.


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## elkhutr (Feb 3, 2008)

My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door
The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself

Which one is it? I don't understand, everyone tapes different, if you can't tape the same way or as good as some one else there way's wrong. Why bash them? Why can't people you hire have ideas, they might be good ideas, that's just foolish. I guess I think a lot differently than most, but ideas sometimes translates in to saving time, money and a better job. Thanks


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

I use 8"-10"-12" Just my way.


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## savant (Dec 19, 2007)

If anybody's looking for a senseless fight, they can visit:

http://www.contractortalk.com/index.php

there's plenty of that there. You're welcome to get your rocks off.


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

elkhutr said:


> My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door
> The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself
> 
> Which one is it? I don't understand, everyone tapes different, if you can't tape the same way or as good as some one else there way's wrong. Why bash them? Why can't people you hire have ideas, they might be good ideas, that's just foolish. I guess I think a lot differently than most, but ideas sometimes translates in to saving time, money and a better job. Thanks


 
OK guy read the whole post. Geesh! I explained that i listen and implement good ideas. But at the end of the day I write the check and know what makes money and dosen't. Its diff. for everyone. so.....elkhuntr what ever you are doing have at it. If you have any problems I would be glad to give you my point of view. I personally dont get pushy with how I do things. If people ask I will tell them, and I dont make anyone feel stupid.


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

savant said:


> If anybody's looking for a senseless fight, they can visit:
> 
> http://www.contractortalk.com/index.php
> 
> there's plenty of that there. You're welcome to get your rocks off.


:thumbup:He said "rocks off":yes::thumbsup:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Man, I've been missing out again. I was over at Contractortalk and nobody talking over there, so thought I'd jump over here. Whew, got a good one going here. Can't think of anything to get everybody all torqued up about though. The Canadians and Floridians are going at it again. Us guys in the midwest do it best, I think. We don't get to see yours so we just keep on believing. We sand, though. And follow the box. Just because we are sloppy box runners.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Muddauber said:


> I use 8"-10"-12" Just my way.


What brand?


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> Man, I've been missing out again. I was over at Contractortalk and nobody talking over there, so thought I'd jump over here. Whew, got a good one going here. Can't think of anything to get everybody all torqued up about though. The Canadians and Floridians are going at it again. Us guys in the midwest do it best, I think. We don't get to see yours so we just keep on believing. We sand, though. And follow the box. Just because we are sloppy box runners.


:thumbup::whistling2::thumbsup:Good stuff huh!


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Must be spring fever or more like cabin fever. I think everybody is ready for some warm weather. I know we have had thirty some inches of snow in Feb. I'm ready to go fishing. I can hear the walleye jumping out of the water somewhere...


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Tim0282 said:


> What brand?


I bought a set of Columbia tools in 2004.Just basic maintenance is all I've done to date.Columbia has a 5 year warrantee.Thier taper has a very smooth cutting assembly.A slight tug is all it takes to cut the tape.


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## elkhutr (Feb 3, 2008)

I'll have to check out contractor talk, we'll just hacking


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

taper71 said:


> We dont have many. I think you better come up here and teach us igloo dwellers the way.


I've been doing that much more actively since last June. There's a few more good tool finishers in Saskatoon too.

jdl


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

elkhutr said:


> 1wallboardsman - you ever heard of jim ewing he did a few hotels in Fl in the 70's.


No, but if he was doing hotels, he was probably in the Orlando/Central FLA market. 70% in the SE was high rise condos.

jdl


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

Drywall1 said:


> WW1 is here. There is no right way boys. There is only what works best for you and the people that are paying you. I dont care what my subs do as long as it is flat and smooth in the end. My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door.
> 
> When hiring anyone with expierence I listen to all of their ideas before shutting them down. I have learned a few things over the years keeping my ears open also. The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself. Just my two cents.
> 
> Nate


I always supposed that it was none of my business how a pieceworker went about his work, since proper results were all that really mattered, and some just seem to prefer going around their elbow to get to their a## anyway.

But, if anybody wasn't willing to produce the results required, they were dispatched in short order.

jdl


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

taper71 said:


> Its not WW1. I just really have a hard time with the guys who think they are right and have to argue the point till there blue in the face. I have no doubt that 1wallboardman has alot of knowledge and is very experienced in this trade. What I have a problem with is the arrogance. I wipe behind my boxes for the same reason that butcherman stated. I spent years not wiping behind the boxes because I can finish without having too, but my experience now is that I have way less sanding and the job looks way better when I do wipe and that saves me lots of time. At the end of the day the job looks like the way it is supposed too, I have made money and the customer is happy.


Arrogance... that reminds me of my old buddy Art Derst, he called everyone by the same name... rotten MF. The first time I met him, he pulled a tab off of his bazooka and flung it across the room to land it perfectly on a hole where the hanger put his nosecone through the wall.

He had a policy too, if anyone came around with his check after 1:30 pm on Fri. Art was going to have his hands around their throat to motivate them to be on time next week. That was arrogant. I also thought it to be quite anti-social, but in later years I recalled that Art pretty much always had his check by 1:30 on Fri.

jdl


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## butcherman (Jan 26, 2008)

1 wallboardsman Things work differently. Again if it works for you it works for you, but i know about competition and quality. You don't earn your contractors trust by being sloppy. I don't compete or bid for jobs anymore and i'm pretty busy. I must be doing somthing right. I also go back and check my jobs when painted (with a light). When i speak to the painters they tell me if there are problems. Not many complaints. This works for me. I'm always open to new ideas. Your way just isn't working for me. Respectfully, thanks for the advice. But you don't know my work so don't go after quality on jobs that you haven't seen, that's weak.


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## Crazytaper (Feb 23, 2008)

Why don't we all agree on the fact that drywall licks horse ass and we'd rather stay home and touch ourselves all day and collect umemployment.:yes:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I'd rather be a professional fisherman. Or at least have enough money that I didn't need to work then be just a plain old fisherman.


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## Drywall1 (Dec 9, 2007)

I agree with previous 2 posts


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

butcherman said:


> 1 wallboardsman Things work differently. Again if it works for you it works for you, but i know about competition and quality. You don't earn your contractors trust by being sloppy. I don't compete or bid for jobs anymore and i'm pretty busy. I must be doing somthing right. I also go back and check my jobs when painted (with a light). When i speak to the painters they tell me if there are problems. Not many complaints. This works for me. I'm always open to new ideas. Your way just isn't working for me. Respectfully, thanks for the advice. But you don't know my work so don't go after quality on jobs that you haven't seen, that's weak.


You don't know my work either, but you just implied that I must be sloppy since I don't wipe down behind flat boxes. I don't sand between coats either, I guess that would make me double sloppy.

jdl


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

Crazytaper said:


> Why don't we all agree on the fact that drywall licks horse ass and we'd rather stay home and touch ourselves all day and collect umemployment.:yes:


A good point, nothing gives me more satisfaction then knowing that I won't have to suffer with some idiot that couldn't carry my tool bucket telling me how to finish his drywall today, while I can still make a living from my knowledge and experience.
jdl


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## butcherman (Jan 26, 2008)

1wallboardsman said:


> You don't know my work either, but you just implied that I must be sloppy since I don't wipe down behind flat boxes. I don't sand between coats either, I guess that would make me double sloppy.
> 
> jdl


I didn't imply you were sloppy. I'm telling you i'm not sloppy. I didn't judge your work because i have'nt seen it. If you re-read the message i'm basicaly saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. Do what works for you. Don't take it personal or look for a reason to.


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## rettt (Mar 31, 2008)

keep the job to where you can make more profit and hire only those who you know are honest and good at what they do . More information at www.waltip.com


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## 1wallboardsman (Feb 20, 2008)

rettt said:


> keep the job to where you can make more profit and hire only those who you know are honest and good at what they do . More information at www.waltip.com


You just eliminated 90% of the available pool 

jdl


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

never wipe behind my box coat, but finish my flats with one 10" box then spray on 20" coat with my apla-teck graco system with a tight wipe,end result is a perfect level 4 with little sanding


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## HawaiiBuilder (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks guys, for all the taping techniques and information.

Been in construction for nearly 25 years as carpenter, also been Sup. for a couple and took care of highrise punchlist. 80%-90% of punchlist work is Drywall finish related, granted some are caused by poor framing, especially on long corridors. Walls are finished, painted, lights go on, Architect / Contractor condemed work. Shadows every two to four feet, have meeting, blame, point finger at plumber for having waste lines out past studs. Refloat walls with 4' straight edge, 1 week per floor, repaint, have meeting to decide who will pay for work (since painter deemed to accept work prior to painting walls), drywall contractor normally eats it, or has back charged amount deducted from final payment and has to go to court to make case to at least try to get a portion of that back. 

In the meantime...General's project manager instructing office to begin compiling statements, photographing and documenting evidence in the event of future litigation. 

On a lower level..drywall foremans get chewed out, blame the workers, workers get bad reputation and even blackballed from future employement.

I started my own company two years ago as a General, residential work, and have been doing the hanging / taping with own crew to be able to control the quality. Last year, bought Northstar set, Graco Mark V, PC sander, have a Graco 750 but will buy a 1500 when next texture project comes. 

Still learning the Bazooka, run boxes fairly well I think. Take it out on jobs even 12 sheets. Go back home and watch JDL's video on youtube and can see and understand the finer points on running taping / finishing set.

Will be marketing company this year for drywall and start to build crew, lot of good workers out there to choose from. To much competition in this economy against the larger homebuilders who have been around for a long time. Rather get a small piece of of a lot of work.

Anyway...JDL, just gotta love your dedication to your trade. I'm the same way, only different trade. 

Aloha,

KLB:thumbsup:


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## ThatDrywallGuy (Oct 30, 2008)

just when everyone was cooling down from this thread, you bring it back up 9 months later, lol:thumbsup:

DISCLAIMER: the following is not directed to anyone in particular:thumbup:

i used to wipe down after boxing but, i havnt in years.
i used to box butts but, i havnt in years. ( i prefer to run em by hand)

things change, techniques change. 

what i think is best now, may change next year (maybe next week)

so really there is no use in arguing about YOUR way vs. MY way
because my way is subject to change, pending a better idea. as i hope yours is as well. 

ive been doing this for over 20 years,and im convinced theres nothing anybody can tell me about drywall mud to make me a BETTER finisher. but, im all ears for ideas
to make it easier.

Chris


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Hawaii Builder,

Its true, the drywall contractor usually eats it, and has to take the blame. Its a misunderstood link in construction that no-one really knows who to blame and who to admit you.


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## 06mach (Mar 28, 2021)

Drywall1 said:


> WW1 is here. There is no right way boys. There is only what works best for you and the people that are paying you. I dont care what my subs do as long as it is flat and smooth in the end. My hourly guys on the other hand...it is my way...or there is the door.
> 
> When hiring anyone with expierence I listen to all of their ideas before shutting them down. I have learned a few things over the years keeping my ears open also. The minute you think your way is the only way it can be done right is when you are fooling yourself. Just my two cents.
> 
> Nate


Nate 
I am a tradesmen for many yrs and agree with you 100%, I am learning new and faster ways sometimes
from younger guys. I have always contracted out my drywall and mudding and never needed to worry 
about it, but I see more and more tapers doing shitting work. Now I am gonna learn it myself and just bought
a set of tools, hehe
I enjoy listening, reading and learning from all forums and vids, I do have 1 question 
Why do I see guys run the finish coat 12 or 14 inch box and another run behind them with a skimming knife
Thanks
Darren


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## Mjaw (Nov 24, 2020)

06mach said:


> Nate
> I am a tradesmen for many yrs and agree with you 100%, I am learning new and faster ways sometimes
> from younger guys. I have always contracted out my drywall and mudding and never needed to worry
> about it, but I see more and more tapers doing shitting work. Now I am gonna learn it myself and just bought
> ...


I ran a blade behind my box on Friday , Saturday i was asked why i didn't run the box.😣, then i looked at the runs where i didnt blade after box, they looked much better.


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## Mjaw (Nov 24, 2020)

06mach said:


> Nate
> I am a tradesmen for many yrs and agree with you 100%, I am learning new and faster ways sometimes
> from younger guys. I have always contracted out my drywall and mudding and never needed to worry
> about it, but I see more and more tapers doing shitting work. Now I am gonna learn it myself and just bought
> ...


I ran a blade behind my box on Friday , Saturday i was asked why i didn't run the box.😣, then i looked at the runs where i didnt blade after box, they looked much better.


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