# Whats better , paper or metal bead ?



## Buttjoint

<P>I am new to the sight . I personally like the way paper finishes out if you have a hopper , but if not metal is the way.<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" smilieid="1"></P>


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## Philma Crevices

I think most here are moving away from paper and metal and using vinyl. If you're using a hopper and like it, get your hands on a compound tube and an applicator head, much cleaner.
http://www.walltools.com/store/columbia-cmt42.html

Take a look over here, Trim-Tex is giving sample beads if you want to check 'em out
http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/unleash-beast-cb-3009/

And welcome aboard :thumbsup:


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## fr8train

We use No-Coat beads, for now... didn't get to try out the Trim-Tex beads yet. 

I can't speak for any other brand of paper faced bead, but compared to metal, the No-Coat beads take less mud to coat. We do them in 2 coats. Were as the metal beads take 3 coats.

The No-coats can take more abuse before they need to be repaired, but Metal makes a crisper point.

Use what you like, you're the one that has to warranty it! :thumbup:

BTW, welcome


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## moore

metal bead nailed on---nail pops!!!
metal bead crimped on---edge cracks !!! 

You will need a roller for paper face or no-coat..WELCOME!!!


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## Philma Crevices

Forgot about the nocoaters and straightflex :thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck

Buttjoint said:


> <P>I am new to the sight . I personally like the way paper finishes out if you have a hopper , but if not metal is the way.<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" smilieid="1"></P>


Stuck in the 1980's are we :whistling2:


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## justadrywallguy

Buttjoint said:


> <P>I am new to the sight . I personally like the way paper finishes out if you have a hopper , but if not metal is the way.<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" smilieid="1"></P>


Company I am subbing for use's paperfaced metal bead, which is Ok. they only do commercial work. But if I am doing my own work(residential) it is Trim-tex bead set with 3M glue (sorry Trim-Tex your glue comes out like Spidermans webbing but pink)


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## Tony Plain

Trim tex only warrenties bead installed with their glue and staples. Some texture primers dont adhere to the pvc with out sanding the nose. I perfer to repair trim tex because a dent in paper face usually requires a hack saw. We mostly use paper face. Trim tex for round arches, and no coat for inside off set corners. Is there such thing as soft line crimp on metal bead?


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## gazman

moore said:


> metal bead nailed on---nail pops!!!
> metal bead crimped on---edge cracks !!!
> 
> You will need a roller for paper face or no-coat..WELCOME!!!



I dont understand why you get edge cracks with crimped bead moore. We are stuck in the 80`s here as 2Buck says. I have been crimping metal for 10 years and I have not had a call back. Maybe it is because we first coat with hot mud. As I have said before our hot mud sets like rock and sticks like sh1t to a blanket.

I am keen to try the Trim tex mud beads that are on there way.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> I dont understand why you get edge cracks with crimped bead moore. We are stuck in the 80`s here as 2Buck says. I have been crimping metal for 10 years and I have not had a call back. Maybe it is because we first coat with hot mud. As I have said before our hot mud sets like rock and sticks like sh1t to a blanket.
> 
> I am keen to try the Trim tex mud beads that are on there way.:yes:


yep, we did the same thing back in the 1980's. We went with durabond, scraped it down when it set, then applied a second coat of ap mud. Then they came out with a miracle product called sheet rock 90, it was sandable.:yes:

then depending witch city/area you were working, there would be arguments over who would install it (metal bead). Some would say it was a carpenters job to install, since a taper should not half to own a hammer or screw gun. But then mister taper would b1tch about how the bead was installed, so mister drywaller told mister taper to "F" off and install it them selves. So the tapers did, but with a crimper. But then mister DWC would b1tch that no nails or screws were being used. So the tapers bitched to get more money to install bead. But then some tapers bitched (like me) and said give us paper bead. But the DWC said,"oh no, paper cost more money and uses more mud, so you must install for free !!!!!!!!!!

But over time, the DWC realized they used less mud, and their call backs went down, then They made all the tapers install for free:yes:

Then circa present day, My DWC was actually talking to me (without us fighting) and said "kelly !!! remember when we use to use metal bead all the time, man that stuff was garbage, all the call backs you got...... what were we thinking ???"........ and I was like:furious:


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## Kiwiman

Back when the builders used to nail them on was just a nightmare, I'm glad those days are over.
I use staples on metal bead with hot mud and never had a problem, I've seen paperfaced bead with problems but to be fair I can't comment on it because I don't know what process they used installing it.


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## bmitch

i really like the trim tex product line,exspansion joint,tear away,the flex beads,but i generally use paper bead for most applications.supplier tells me very few of us using paper any more.in the near future paper bead will be a special order for me.130 outside bull already is.


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## silverstilts

b said:


> i really like the trim tex product line,exspansion joint,tear away,the flex beads,but i generally use paper bead for most applications.supplier tells me very few of us using paper any more.in the near future paper bead will be a special order for me.130 outside bull already is.


It is hard to believe that paper face bead is on its way out it is far superior to vinyl which personally I think is garbage and cheesy, Paper-face is the way to go you have a complete bond to the board, unlike metal or vinyl. I suppose most will agree it is what you are accustomed to and what you want to warranty. The only vinyl I use is tearaway or arch-bead.


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## PrecisionTaping

silverstilts said:


> It is hard to believe that paper face bead is on its way out it is far superior to vinyl which personally I think is garbage and cheesy, Paper-face is the way to go you have a complete bond to the board, unlike metal or vinyl. I suppose most will agree it is what you are accustomed to and what you want to warranty. The only vinyl I use is tearaway or arch-bead.


Pfft....I don't know man.
Im going to make a video to disprove this theory!
A complete bond with mud...to paper...umm nope..Vinyl's stronger my friend. I would never say that paper is superior to vinyl.
I'll make a video of two outside 90 corners, one paper faced, installed with mud and another vinyl installed with trim-tex glue and staples.
Then i'll rip them off the wall. You tell me which one you think will come easiest.


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## getplastered

Tony Plain said:


> Trim tex only warrenties bead installed with their glue and staples. Some texture primers dont adhere to the pvc with out sanding the nose. I perfer to repair trim tex because a dent in paper face usually requires a hack saw. We mostly use paper face. Trim tex for round arches, and no coat for inside off set corners. Is there such thing as soft line crimp on metal bead?


I don't think this is accurate; maybe Joe could correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw somewhere that even the mud on bead is warrantied against edge fail...then again, you can't believe everything you read on the net!


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## Buttjoint

I have only used staightflex one time as a corner bead only because it was the last corner and I was out of regular bead . I would never use it like that if I had a choice . Great for inside & outside 45 but I dont think as a 90


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## Buttjoint

I also use a colarado banjo , it cuts the tape as u go no need for a knife in hand, I dont know about that new banjo being advertised


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Pfft....I don't know man.
> Im going to make a video to disprove this theory!
> A complete bond with mud...to paper...umm nope..Vinyl's stronger my friend. I would never say that paper is superior to vinyl.
> I'll make a video of two outside 90 corners, one paper faced, installed with mud and another vinyl installed with trim-tex glue and staples.
> Then i'll rip them off the wall. You tell me which one you think will come easiest.


No need to, trim tex already did it for you http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/unleash-beast-cb-3009/index2/ post # 34

Trim-tex is just talking about using mud to install and coat, while your talking glue and staples on vinyl. If you want to be fair about it , then use some mud max from trim-tex to put in with your mud to install your paper bead (use more than they recommend,,,,, works real good:yes.

Then there are other factors to weigh in also, are you by the hour or on contract work. by the hour, you could tell me to use metal bead, and nail it on with inch spacing , and I would be like sure!!!!!!! but by contract work, I would be,,,,,,,,, piss off:furious:

installing vinyl with glue is bloody fast, but messy as justadrywallguy states in his post. You get glue every where. But once you throw staples into your equation , you just lost production, a guy installing metal bead with some form of nail gun will out produce you. Then throw in the odd staple that wont make it under the mud line, and the limited time allowed to set/line up your bead with glue. The 3 coats of mud you will need and extra mud required due to the larger nose on vinyl bead....... It's not the best method IMO.

staying on the topic of production, I won't discuss metal bead, it's a dinosaur. installing vinyl with JUST glue is fast , but now you got to go back and coat it, and as stated above, stapling it is self defeating. Installing with mud is quick for paper or vinyl, and we could debate the installation by ,compound tube, mud box, or by hand till the sheep come home (but cp tube and some by hand best).You have more time to adjust the bead, twist, pull on it, pinch it ,or stack scrapes under it to make level and strong. Then the one aspect IMO you can't beat, is you can half coat them right away, Well your right in front of them. Some may say this is a no no on paper bead, But I will claim bull.

Then there is the cost of the product, vinyl cost more, and requires more material. straight flex cost more, but uses less material. Paper bead is in the middle of the said two products. Metal bead who cares.

Then there's the call back to repair. Their all dependent on proper dry wall installation to take a impact, and I don't care which bead your talking, when they have a finish coat of paint on them, there's going to be a repair. They all repair the same, except for the metal bead. then there's the settling of the house and shrinkage of mud over time. Beads tend to hollow over time, paper and straight flex bead are less noticeable over time, except to the trained eye. But to the home owner or builder, they notice the hollow over time, they say things like it "don't look square" when dealing with metal or vinyl. Then throw in violent trimmers installing base board, metal bead always loses that battle, well paper wins.....

So do what you want PT, But I will take silvers side (plus he can ban me) You got to think of bead being like women. You don't want them to be too fat or skinny, or too pretty or ugly (style of bead you get, bull nose 90 bead) You don't want them to be too strong or weak (strength of install) You don't want them too horny or not horny at all (production) You don't want a bar fly or a home body (cost) Nor do you want one that will cause you trouble down the road (warranty work/divorce).

So you want a all around, middle of the road woman, which is what paper bead is IMO:yes:


Foot note for joe from trim tex: what results do mud max produce ???? for vinyl vs paper


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## Buttjoint

silverstilts said:


> It is hard to believe that paper face bead is on its way out it is far superior to vinyl which personally I think is garbage and cheesy, Paper-face is the way to go you have a complete bond to the board, unlike metal or vinyl. I suppose most will agree it is what you are accustomed to and what you want to warranty. The only vinyl I use is tearaway or arch-bead.


I would have to say I agree
:thumbsup:


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## boco

The big problem I have with paperfaced bead is has a metal backer which will eventually rust and then create mold and mildew. Vinyl is stronger doesnt dent and has a better bond. Iff ya have any doubts talk to Joe about getting some samples for testing. I did. The TT vinyl mudsets beads are the cats meow. Dont forget to add Mudmax.


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> No need to, trim tex already did it for you http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/unleash-beast-cb-3009/index2/ post # 34
> 
> Trim-tex is just talking about using mud to install and coat, while your talking glue and staples on vinyl. If you want to be fair about it , then use some mud max from trim-tex to put in with your mud to install your paper bead (use more than they recommend,,,,, works real good:yes.
> 
> Then there are other factors to weigh in also, are you by the hour or on contract work. by the hour, you could tell me to use metal bead, and nail it on with inch spacing , and I would be like sure!!!!!!! but by contract work, I would be,,,,,,,,, piss off:furious:
> 
> installing vinyl with glue is bloody fast, but messy as justadrywallguy states in his post. You get glue every where. But once you throw staples into your equation , you just lost production, a guy installing metal bead with some form of nail gun will out produce you. Then throw in the odd staple that wont make it under the mud line, and the limited time allowed to set/line up your bead with glue. The 3 coats of mud you will need and extra mud required due to the larger nose on vinyl bead....... It's not the best method IMO.
> 
> staying on the topic of production, I won't discuss metal bead, it's a dinosaur. installing vinyl with JUST glue is fast , but now you got to go back and coat it, and as stated above, stapling it is self defeating. Installing with mud is quick for paper or vinyl, and we could debate the installation by ,compound tube, mud box, or by hand till the sheep come home (but cp tube and some by hand best).You have more time to adjust the bead, twist, pull on it, pinch it ,or stack scrapes under it to make level and strong. Then the one aspect IMO you can't beat, is you can half coat them right away, Well your right in front of them. Some may say this is a no no on paper bead, But I will claim bull.
> 
> Then there is the cost of the product, vinyl cost more, and requires more material. straight flex cost more, but uses less material. Paper bead is in the middle of the said two products. Metal bead who cares.
> 
> Then there's the call back to repair. Their all dependent on proper dry wall installation to take a impact, and I don't care which bead your talking, when they have a finish coat of paint on them, there's going to be a repair. They all repair the same, except for the metal bead. then there's the settling of the house and shrinkage of mud over time. Beads tend to hollow over time, paper and straight flex bead are less noticeable over time, except to the trained eye. But to the home owner or builder, they notice the hollow over time, they say things like it "don't look square" when dealing with metal or vinyl. Then throw in violent trimmers installing base board, metal bead always loses that battle, well paper wins.....
> 
> So do what you want PT, But I will take silvers side (plus he can ban me) You got to think of bead being like women. You don't want them to be too fat or skinny, or too pretty or ugly (style of bead you get, bull nose 90 bead) You don't want them to be too strong or weak (strength of install) You don't want them too horny or not horny at all (production) You don't want a bar fly or a home body (cost) Nor do you want one that will cause you trouble down the road (warranty work/divorce).
> 
> So you want a all around, middle of the road woman, which is what paper bead is IMO:yes:
> 
> 
> Foot note for joe from trim tex: what results do mud max produce ???? for vinyl vs paper



Very well written 2buck!! But I wasn't trying to disprove that paper beads aren't good! They are way better than steel! Steel is garbage! And shouldn't even be mentioned on this site anymore. lol.
Paper bead is a great all around bead!
But look at the diagram you posted! Posted it yourself. 
Vinyl is superior! Right above paper faced metal beads.
They might need a little more mud and depending how installed might take a little longer. But spec wise, they take the cake.


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## TonyM

Give me 10 minutes and I could draw a chart that shows paper faced bead to be superior to plastic. It's not hard is it. Vinyl beads are ****e and I will never use them.


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## bmitch

both vinyl and paper have their place in industry,if your doing production housing you probably have a material buget that tells you what you have to use.i'll be useing paper till i'm no longer able to get it.i really do'nt give a damm what kind of tug and pull test you do on it.


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## 2buckcanuck

TonyM said:


> Give me 10 minutes and I could draw a chart that shows paper faced bead to be superior to plastic. It's not hard is it. Vinyl beads are ****e and I will never use them.


Well it looks like your back to making a video PT:whistling2:

But I say, do 2 sticks of paper bead, one with ap mud, and one with mud max. You get to choice your weapon of installation for the vinyl.:yes:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Well it looks like your back to making a video PT:whistling2:
> 
> But I say, do 2 sticks of paper bead, one with ap mud, and one with mud max. You get to choice your weapon of installation for the vinyl.:yes:


Deal!!


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## Mudshark

Buttjoint said:


> <P>I am new to the sight . I personally like the way paper finishes out if you have a hopper , but if not metal is the way.<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" smilieid="1"></P>


Buttjoint, while having the hopper is nice when you have loads of bead to put up, it certainly isnt necessary. The old metal bead I am afraid is a bit of a dinosaur.


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## saskataper

I agree with you 2buck but vinyl does have its place, like when you have to put square on corners cut for round. Also your limited to square, bull, and baby bull where trim-tex has a pile of different profiles.

I'm thinking this mud set might be a game changer though, I changed a couple square corners to round with it last week using a cheater coat of taping mud when I put them on then one coat of finish, went and sanded them today and they weren't filled perfectly but passable. I'm sure two coats of finish would have worked real nice.


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## 2buckcanuck

saskataper said:


> I agree with you 2buck but vinyl does have its place, like when you have to put square on corners cut for round. Also your limited to square, bull, and baby bull where trim-tex has a pile of different profiles.
> 
> I'm thinking this mud set might be a game changer though, I changed a couple square corners to round with it last week using a cheater coat of taping mud when I put them on then one coat of finish, went and sanded them today and they weren't filled perfectly but passable. I'm sure two coats of finish would have worked real nice.


I agree with you too, just saying paper holds the middle ground.

Except when your dealing with bull nose, fancy stuff, drywall art and the rich $$$$$ (quality) then trim-tex (vinyl) wins:yes:


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## Stopper

2buckcanuck said:


> Foot note for joe from trim tex: what results do mud max produce ???? for vinyl vs paper


 One slight problem with those results, although its great that the bead sticks to the wall better, I've never heard of bead being damaged because someone tried to pull the stuff off, the bead on corners is to protect them from knocks, metal bead bedded on with hot mud takes a hell of alot more abuse than vinyl bead. the Mud sticks to the paper face far better than the smooth vinyl for one thing.

Why don't they have a comparison graph of beads where the test involves knocking the corner with something? the chances of some mutant Octopus rampaging through a house and getting all of its suckers attached to a bead and then trying to yanking it off have to be pretty slim lol 

Nice to know the bead sticks though


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## chris

The new mudsets are alot thinner than the older vinyl beads,im interested in how they finish.The downfall to vinyl beads in the past was the thickness of it. If mudmax is used on it very hard to remove. Had an open angle stick of vinyl I needed to correct and the biggest piece I tore off was maybe 6 inches. The mud max makes a huge difference. Its getting easier for me to pass on traditional metal beads and grab something newer:yes: . Metal beads for years but am using less and less these days
'


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## Philma Crevices

Stopper said:


> One slight problem with those results, although its great that the bead sticks to the wall better, I've never heard of bead being damaged because someone tried to pull the stuff off, the bead on corners is to protect them from knocks, metal bead bedded on with hot mud takes a hell of alot more abuse than vinyl bead. the Mud sticks to the paper face far better than the smooth vinyl for one thing.
> 
> Why don't they have a comparison graph of beads where the test involves knocking the corner with something? the chances of some mutant Octopus rampaging through a house and getting all of its suckers attached to a bead and then trying to yanking it off have to be pretty slim lol
> 
> Nice to know the bead sticks though


Finaly found this vid Mudshark posted in another thread, it shows some impact testing as wells as the pull testing, 45 sec's in


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## [email protected]

Good ole metal bead, clinched just enough to let go of. And then sewed on with 1/4 crown staples, mesh taped. Bring a box of bandaids if you try to pull ours off the wall.

Bull-nose: Trim-Tex with their glue and then stapled.

Inside off Angles: Trim Tex Adjustable I/S corner(accept no roll specialty tape product!) Been using this for going on ten years and can count on one hand the number of vault cracks we've repaired behind it. The roll crap failed in 20% of our work before making the switch.


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## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> Good ole metal bead, clinched just enough to let go of. And then sewed on with 1/4 crown staples, mesh taped. Bring a box of bandaids if you try to pull ours off the wall.
> 
> Bull-nose: Trim-Tex with their glue and then stapled.
> 
> Inside off Angles: Trim Tex Adjustable I/S corner(accept no roll specialty tape product!) Been using this for going on ten years and can count on one hand the number of vault cracks we've repaired behind it. The roll crap failed in 20% of our work before making the switch.


So do you kill flies with a sledge hammer too









so let me see.....

If you mention paper tape vs M**h tape on this site, it starts a war, and you use it.

if you say you use nails (fastener) instead of screws, it will start a war on here, and you use staples.

And those that swear metal bead is the best, will be classified as a dinosaur, and it's good ole metal bead to you.

Are you running a Union shop or something, are your tapers paid by the hour or something:blink: ???????

as for roll on specialty products as you call them. Use the same installation principals that trim-tex calls for. Keep mud away from apex to ALLOW for movement. ....... and try some mud max too:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> So do you kill flies with a sledge hammer too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so let me see.....
> 
> If you mention paper tape vs M**h tape on this site, it starts a war, and you use it.
> 
> if you say you use nails (fastener) instead of screws, it will start a war on here, and you use staples.
> 
> And those that swear metal bead is the best, will be classified as a dinosaur, and it's good ole metal bead to you.
> 
> Are you running a Union shop or something, are your tapers paid by the hour or something:blink: ???????
> 
> as for roll on specialty products as you call them. Use the same installation principals that trim-tex calls for. Keep mud away from apex to ALLOW for movement. ....... and try some mud max too:thumbsup:



Hahaha! Oh 2buck....You bring a smile to face everytime. lol

Except when you bash me! Then im like "That mother flippen son of b!tch!" :laughing:


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## [email protected]

2buckcanuck said:


> So do you kill flies with a sledge hammer too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so let me see.....
> 
> If you mention paper tape vs M**h tape on this site, it starts a war, and you use it.
> 
> if you say you use nails (fastener) instead of screws, it will start a war on here, and you use staples.
> 
> And those that swear metal bead is the best, will be classified as a dinosaur, and it's good ole metal bead to you.
> 
> Are you running a Union shop or something, are your tapers paid by the hour or something:blink: ???????
> as for roll on specialty products as you call them. Use the same installation principals that trim-tex calls for. Keep mud away from apex to ALLOW for movement. ....... and try some mud max too:thumbsup:


$$$ -- a Dino still working? I'll take it. Nope, not an hourly union shop. I'll trade my way for that filthy hopper and high dollar mud admixtures and the rhetoric of the latest and greatest polymers and vinyls and promises of a greater tomorrow. 

Staying out of the apex with mud/adhesives is an epic fail with NoCoat. That vinyl azz crack will unfold over time and give up a chamfer that has to be torn out the length of the room.(regarding adjustable I/S corner). And painters absolutely love cutting in to it. And no silly printing to prime out.

I don't need a graph. Mine is my bottom line. To each his/her own.


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## [email protected]

And no, I do not swat flies with a sledge hammer. I pick up my lunch trash daily and avoid drawing them altogether. And keeping bull-sh1t better mousetrap stuff off the job seems to help too.

Somebody also mentioned using hot(fast set) mud to bed with. (Talk about setting off another posting war) I find it almost comical all the extra steps tapers seem to be willing to take to justify using bead that cost double to quadruple of the metal. 

One last volley for my beloved Trim-Tex Adjustable I/S corner.....
At $1.79 per 10'er, Thats $18 per hundred. And NoCoat 350 tips in at $30+. Not only is my off angle method superior to all others, its 2/3 the cost. But I do encourage y'all to keep using that roll crap. I really do not mind all the repair work that comes my way down the road.

Think about it next time you're masking off an entire LR, Kitchen DR 18' vault Cali-split to fix a NoCoat failure on a 12 month warranty list.


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## TonyM

Here's some vinyl bead put on by some tapers who have just been told they aren't needed anymore. I wonder why?


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## silverstilts

[email protected] said:


> And no, I do not swat flies with a sledge hammer. I pick up my lunch trash daily and avoid drawing them altogether. And keeping bull-sh1t better mousetrap stuff off the job seems to help too.
> 
> Somebody also mentioned using hot(fast set) mud to bed with. (Talk about setting off another posting war) I find it almost comical all the extra steps tapers seem to be willing to take to justify using bead that cost double to quadruple of the metal.
> 
> One last volley for my beloved Trim-Tex Adjustable I/S corner.....
> At $1.79 per 10'er, Thats $18 per hundred. And NoCoat 350 tips in at $30+. Not only is my off angle method superior to all others, its 2/3 the cost. But I do encourage y'all to keep using that roll crap. I really do not mind all the repair work that comes my way down the road.
> 
> Think about it next time you're masking off an entire LR, Kitchen DR 18' vault Cali-split to fix a NoCoat failure on a 12 month warranty list.


Darren the trim tex adjustable inside corner is only one inch wide the profile where you push to the inside of the angle how much fill is there? I have seen it but has been a few years... do you fill with a six or does it have to be feathered out more so as not to look concave? I do like the no-coat and have never had any problems, especially on long runs up in a vault. But then again I make sure the mud is hand applied filling any voids good where the rock does not meet up like it should, outside same put mud on by hand providing a solid backing for the no-coat. I will even do paper-faced beads in the same fashion so their is no air behind the bead, sure it takes a little longer but goes fast with one guy doing tops and the other bottoms. I use to use metal like most, clenched and shot on with 7/16"x 1-1/2" staples then tape them guarantee they would never come off the only problem it was too time consuming. I remember one time on a job just finished sanding it and the carpenter framed in the wrong height on a build in where the header was beaded, talk about piss and moan while he was tearing off the bead. He was actually tearing bits and pieces of it off with some vice grips, couldn't help for the life of me laughing about how long it took him. I remember telling him they were put on to stay on. I got the big F-U on that one..


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## moore

''And no silly printing to prime out''


Darren.. are you putting your no-coat on upside down?

And why tape.. on a metal bead? The tape won't keep the fasteners from backing out..If the fasteners are 7''-8'' apart on each side of the bead It won't edge crack..Are you trying to save a coat?


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## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> And no, I do not swat flies with a sledge hammer. I pick up my lunch trash daily and avoid drawing them altogether. And keeping bull-sh1t better mousetrap stuff off the job seems to help too.
> 
> Somebody also mentioned using hot(fast set) mud to bed with. (Talk about setting off another posting war) I find it almost comical all the extra steps tapers seem to be willing to take to justify using bead that cost double to quadruple of the metal.
> 
> One last volley for my beloved Trim-Tex Adjustable I/S corner.....
> At $1.79 per 10'er, Thats $18 per hundred. And NoCoat 350 tips in at $30+. Not only is my off angle method superior to all others, its 2/3 the cost. But I do encourage y'all to keep using that roll crap. I really do not mind all the repair work that comes my way down the road.
> 
> Think about it next time you're masking off an entire LR, Kitchen DR 18' vault Cali-split to fix a NoCoat failure on a 12 month warranty list.


yeah well:furious:, some times that better mouse trap stuff does pay off. being stuck in ones way, can also cost you. Case in point, Atlantic records refuses to sign the Beatles, saying electric guitars were a passing phase. Kodak Camera's felt there was no need to go digital. and sticking to drywall talk, the drywall and taping method would never surpass plaster, would it !!!!

And time is money, My new super Mod buddy who don't ban people out of spit. I can have a 8' paper bead installed and coated right away in under one minute. How long does it take you to crimp your bead on, then staple it on, then run mesh tape over it:blink:. Then this may be hard for you to believe, but you use less mud on paper bead compared to metal. this in one part makes up for the added cost of the paper bead. Then when you throw in the increased production, your breaking even with the cost.

Also, I work for a drywall company that has been in business for over 35 years. At peak times, they employ well over a hundred tradesmen. They know a thing or too about call backs also. It's paper bead for them, and midflex or no-coat also, with excellent results.

And I use no hot mud of any kind when I tape, just so you know


----------



## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> yeah well:furious:, some times that better mouse trap stuff does pay off. being stuck in ones way, can also cost you. Case in point, Atlantic records refuses to sign the Beatles, saying electric guitars were a passing phase. Kodak Camera's felt there was no need to go digital. and sticking to drywall talk, the drywall and taping method would never surpass plaster, would it !!!!
> 
> And time is money, My new super Mod buddy who don't ban people out of spit. I can have a 8' paper bead installed and coated right away in under one minute. How long does it take you to crimp your bead on, then staple it on, then run mesh tape over it:blink:. Then this may be hard for you to believe, but you use less mud on paper bead compared to metal. this in one part makes up for the added cost of the paper bead. Then when you throw in the increased production, your breaking even with the cost.
> 
> Also, I work for a drywall company that has been in business for over 35 years. At peak times, they employ well over a hundred tradesmen. They know a thing or too about call backs also. It's paper bead for them, and midflex or no-coat also, with excellent results.
> 
> And I use no hot mud of any kind when I tape, just so you know



Well said! Same here!


----------



## [email protected]

"Super" mod has only do with post #'s, BTW. It wasn't something I put up. It came with the territory.

SOmeone asked how we apply Adjustable I/S corner(TrimTex). If either board edge is a taper/rail, we prefill with a six inch and push the pre folded trim into place and staple as needed to make any puckers lay flat. If both board edges are full thickness, we use TrimTex sparay adhesive and then staple down the puckers. Run each side with a six or eight depending on application/conditions. If it is to get acoustic(god forbid), we prolly go with a four inch.

I detected a note of unhappiness from someone here with regards to my moderating. I won't moderate a post/poster open air, only by pm. I only ask same of posters, but I'm not so thin skinned I can't take a shot or two. The last non-spammer I banned was about two years ago(for reasons that were then, and still are now, between that poster and Admin. only), so I'm not real sure what your bitc4 is. 

And being as I've wasted more time on this topic than it takes to metal bead a 20k shack, I'll be taking your leave now, and get back to running my own shop, not working for someone else's(sssss, burn)

Carry on.


----------



## [email protected]

moore said:


> ''And no silly printing to prime out''
> 
> 
> Darren.. are you putting your no-coat on upside down?
> 
> And why tape.. on a metal bead? The tape won't keep the fasteners from backing out..If the fasteners are 7''-8'' apart on each side of the bead It won't edge crack..Are you trying to save a coat?


Moore:
When I retired NoCoat in 2002, it still had 'NoCoat' printed the length of the roll on both sides(yes, the 'right' sides) Even after explaining to builders/painters, that it was supposed to show, was frequently met with "Yeah, but it's gonna show through unless YOU prime it out" F*** that.

And why mesh tape our metal beads? Cuz they'll crack if we don't, and on the RARE occasion one get dented, we can sawzall out the damaged section with out destroying the enire length of bead. No it's not about the fasteners, as we've yet to have a 1/4' crown staple back out. Nails indeed would. Believe it or not, mesh taping the metal beads is pretty progressive considering I still see the occasional idiot put up metal bead and proceed to....PAPER TAPE it to the wall.

Hey, you may think me an old stick in the mud, but aI can assure you, there are still guys out there using water bath tape and nailing an entire house and then shooting texture all over a level 3 finish and call it Macaroni. I know this because I still get calls from clients who have heard our reputation for stellar work but have never seen a righteous drywall job. Thank you to all those true 'dinosaurs', you've certainly provided me with plenty of work over the years.

Besides paper faced beads being inferior, they store and transport poorly as far as I'm concerned. And I just detest that hopper and the the mud trails all over the job.

Hey Silver, I see nothing ever changes much here at DT, does it? Thin-skinned J.O.B. holders always know more than me.:whistling2:
Your story about the header---mine was on a wrapped post that the superintendent pulled four metal/stapled beads off, wanted to wood wrap. Bits and pieces, via vise grips, no stitches, but about a dozen bandaids and butterflies. Good egg about it though, never let me waste a stick o' bead after that. LOL

Guys, it's all good. Whatever y'all wanna use and are happy with, by all means, knock yourselves out. Someone asked, I answered. 

And like the guy said,'Son, you'll spend half your career learning this, and the other half training your competition."


----------



## moore

[email protected] said:


> Moore:
> When I retired NoCoat in 2002, it still had 'NoCoat' printed the length of the roll on both sides(yes, the 'right' sides) Even after explaining to builders/painters, that it was supposed to show, was frequently met with "Yeah, but it's gonna show through unless YOU prime it out" F*** that.
> 
> And why mesh tape our metal beads? Cuz they'll crack if we don't, and on the RARE occasion one get dented, we can sawzall out the damaged section with out destroying the enire length of bead. No it's not about the fasteners, as we've yet to have a 1/4' crown staple back out. Nails indeed would. Believe it or not, mesh taping the metal beads is pretty progressive considering I still see the occasional idiot put up metal bead and proceed to....PAPER TAPE it to the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use them all ..no-coat /plastic/paper face depends on what the job is and what they want to spend.. But I have never taped a metal bead If there fastened correctly they will not edge crack..Don't tell me a staple won't back out like a nail or screw
> 
> My guess is your knockin 60 darren ..that's what 35 years in the trade ?? so you have 10 years on me ..Iv'e seen the same as you..I don't care for metal bead [ nail pops/screwpops] Don't care for plastic ..paper face metal seems to be the way to go ..Till the day comes they stop building homes out of wood.no bead will last.
> No-coat pops loose when the wood does it's thing..so will paper face metal..If you have to tape your metal bead to keep them from edge cracking then your staples are too far apart ..Do I know more than you? umm...not sure.. The only time you post here is too throw out some cocky [ You guys know jack] BS...
> 
> Not sure what a J.O.B IS ,,but i know what a B.D.O.D.M feels like.:thumbsup:


----------



## cazna

Man this is a fiesty thread isnt it :blink:

I did steel and staples and hotmud for the first few years, Never had a crack or a problem, It was great how you could go thru a house and set em all up with out having any mud or tools out, Then mix a big bucket of hot mud and slam em all.

Then one day someone said paper metal was better as the mud didnt chunk of so bad when is knocked so i tryed paper metal, Its all good, Seemes to use less mud and will take a knock, But so what, A knock is still a knock no matter how big or small, Its still a fix up, Nothings different, Its still touch up. Been on the paper metal for a long time now.

Someone else nailed vinyl on a job a got years ago, It was all twisted out of straight so i didnt think much of that, We dont have much vinyl here, We have it for exterior stuff though.

Trimtex and jswain just sent me a lot of mudsets, Looks like they will be easy to use and centre well, Could use more mud though and maybe the corner might stick out more, like the metal bead seems too, Paper/metal seems quite flatish, dunno yet.

It all hardly worth a arguement over though, Its all half dozen of one and 6 of the other, Or much of a muchness really, No big deal either way, Its just beads, Any of em get knocked its still a touch up regardless.


----------



## JustMe

Paper/metal vs. metal vs. plastic:

For those who can put on paper/metal right, and have the right tools for putting it on right and fast when you've got a fair amount to do, it rocks, for both installing and coating, if you install it tight enough. For those who can't put it on right, probably plastic. Many tapers quite possibly should be using plastic. It's how the job I'm on is shaping up. Mine > good. Another taper's > should be using plastic.

Metal bead > not for me.


----------



## mudman46

Buttjoint said:


> <P>I am new to the sight . I personally like the way paper finishes out if you have a hopper , but if not metal is the way.<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" smilieid="1"></P>


first sorry for not being here for like 8 or 9 weeks
was crazy busy last week running 14 guy's time to heal and read:yes:
anyway vinyl is the way to go with trim tex 847 glue
i sometimes run fiba tape on it's edge more work and $ but good lasting effect


----------



## moore

[email protected] said:


> "Super" mod has only do with post #'s, BTW. It wasn't something I put up. It came with the territory.
> 
> SOmeone asked how we apply Adjustable I/S corner(TrimTex). If either board edge is a taper/rail, we prefill with a six inch and push the pre folded trim into place and staple as needed to make any puckers lay flat. If both board edges are full thickness, we use TrimTex sparay adhesive and then staple down the puckers. Run each side with a six or eight depending on application/conditions. If it is to get acoustic(god forbid), we prolly go with a four inch.
> 
> I detected a note of unhappiness from someone here with regards to my moderating. I won't moderate a post/poster open air, only by pm. I only ask same of posters, but I'm not so thin skinned I can't take a shot or two. The last non-spammer I banned was about two years ago(for reasons that were then, and still are now, between that poster and Admin. only), so I'm not real sure what your bitc4 is.
> 
> And being as I've wasted more time on this topic than it takes to metal bead a 20k shack, I'll be taking your leave now, and get back to running my own shop, not working for someone else's(sssss, burn)
> 
> Carry on.


Hey Darren ..If your shop needs another roll of toilet paper to hold there bead on ..I have this roll ..A diy/h/o gave it to me ..I'll send it to you ..free shipping! :yes:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

moore said:


> Hey Darren ..If your shop needs another roll of toilet paper to hold there bead on ..I have this roll ..A diy/h/o gave it to me ..I'll send it to you ..free shipping! :yes:


Hahahaha!!! :laughing:
Oh No you didn't!!


----------



## DSJOHN

This ones good---we always go on how my trucks bigger than yours/ my tools are better/ we do so much sft of rock a month and so on----- fwiw I,m 32 yrs in the trade and metal clinched on and nailed properly without being taped doesnt crack[imo--waste of time] just like adding soap to your mix!! We switched to paperfaced metal around 96 and never looked back---- its inferior-NO-- still using metal and taping the edges is like using a keyhole saw for your outlets that ,s the best analogy I can think of right now--- same as hand taper vs machine taper--- TIME= MONEY-- and we give nothing but quality work [ btw--I use No-coat also!!!] in my offset angles.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> "Super" mod has only do with post #'s, BTW. It wasn't something I put up. It came with the territory.
> 
> FROM POST #43 "Hey Silver, I see nothing ever changes much here at DT, does it? Thin-skinned J.O.B. holders always know more than me."
> 
> I detected a note of unhappiness from someone here with regards to my moderating. I won't moderate a post/poster open air, only by pm. I only ask same of posters, but I'm not so thin skinned I can't take a shot or two. The last non-spammer I banned was about two years ago(for reasons that were then, and still are now, between that poster and Admin. only), so I'm not real sure what your bitc4 is.
> 
> And being as I've wasted more time on this topic than it takes to metal bead a 20k shack, I'll be taking your leave now, and get back to running my own shop, not working for someone else's(sssss, burn)
> 
> Carry on.


I take this post is directed at me:yes:

You seem to think my sarcasm, is a poke of unhappiness towards your moderating. Well your wrong. The moderating here is the best compared to all the other affiliated sites owned by Nathan. Have I crossed paths before with your moderating , yes, almost 2 years ago now. I posted a inappropriate picture of something, and you addressed me by PM that "If it is inappropriate for you children to see , then don't post it on DWT" I agreed with you, and if you were on this site more, you would know I push things to the envelope at times. So some on here might say, Wow, 2bucks only been warned once on this site:blink:. Even I call the pretty good too:whistling2:

But the last part of your post, and your one line from post #43 quoted above, Just blew my mind away. It was unbelievable. Most of us on here have good banter on here, we like to clown around a lot, it's what BRINGS US BACK to this site. All on here work hard to support their families, and try to make ends meet. The drywall industry probably has more sub contractors and or hourly employed workers of any other trade in construction. There is a diversified amount of tradesman on this site. There's some that deal with Reno's, some are painters, some only drywall, some only tape, some are small independents and larger ones too, some are out of work, some are in the union, some prefer commercial work, some like the shacks. Some are beginners, some are ready to retire. Some do plaster, some only do spray, Some LIKE ME, use to run their own shops but now prefer to sub contract, and still employ others have their own reasons why.......... meaning none of your business why:furious:

But to think you know more than everyone else on this site, because you OWN YOUR OWN SHOP and to call others on this site thin skinned J.O.B holders !!!!!!!!... like really, do those that work for you, realize your low opinion of them. Are they aware of this Master and slave relationship you envision in your head. Would they find your comments appropriate. do they know your better than everyone else.

In one way, I couldn't care what one has to say about me. Most live two thousand miles away from me , and can never affect my life. But for some reason this time, I find these comments are insulting to all on this site


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> Some LIKE ME, use to run their own shops but now prefer to sub contract, and still employ others have their own reasons why.......... meaning none of your business why:furious:
> 
> But to think you know more than everyone else on this site, because you OWN YOUR OWN SHOP and to call others on this site thin skinned J.O.B holders !!!!!!!!... like really, do those that work for you, realize your low opinion of them. Are they aware of this Master and slave relationship you envision in your head. Would they find your comments appropriate. do they know your better than everyone else.
> 
> In one way, I couldn't care what one has to say about me. Most live two thousand miles away from me , and can never affect my life. But for some reason this time, I find these comments are insulting to all on this site


I guess I should be more offended than you, since I work as an employee for a DWC. Although about 1/3 of my work in drywall finishing last year was outside of the company.

But I'm not offended. Rather, I like knowing a person's mind about what they think of me, of ......... . That lets me know if I should concern myself with them, or basically pretty much ignore them.

Famous psychologist Abraham Maslow once said that being Jewish was, to him, like having a semi-permeable membrane around him - it kept the b*stards out. (His words, not mine).
Meaning that those willing to be prejudiced against a group as a whole, weren't people he cared to socialize with. For those not familiar with 'semi-permeable membrane', it's a membrane that allows some things through, while keeping other things out.

It's kind of how I see my blue collar work. If some don't like me, want to think less of me and judge me negatively for it, I'm happy to oblige them, by keeping them out. I actually look forward to doing it with such types. I don't consider them worth my time. Which I guess is judgmental of me. Not that I care in such instances.


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks for making my point 2Buck. And since you brought it up, showing up here with pics of a dildo was over line, IMHO. I took it down and that was the end of it for two years, why would a man want to tell that on himself? Again that was moderated via pm yet you dragged it out in the air to prove what point? 

That post was reported by your fellow posters. Posters other than myself were offended. Geez, I got other **** to do besides retread a two year old moderated post. How small and common. Good day to you. 

Thanks again for proving my earlier point.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for making my point 2Buck. And since you brought it up, showing up here with pics of a dildo was over line, IMHO. I took it down and that was the end of it for two years, why would a man want to tell that on himself? Again that was moderated via pm yet you dragged it out in the air to prove what point?
> 
> That post was reported by your fellow posters. Posters other than myself were offended. Geez, I got other **** to do besides retread a two year old moderated post. How small and common. Good day to you.
> 
> Thanks again for proving my earlier point.


You debate like a left winger,,,, By addressing the minor issue of post #51 (deflection from the major issue). Thought you were a man, who was spending his spare time to help elect a Republican :thumbup:


----------



## VANMAN

Yea some people on this site need 2 have a good look in the mirror before posting stuff:thumbsup: I.E CHRIS:whistling2:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Mommy!! Daddy!! Can't we quit fighting!? You're tearing the family apart!!

:laughing:


----------



## Kiwiman

Put the taping knife on the ground and back away slowly, No icecream for you two if you can't play nice.


----------



## moore




----------



## PrecisionTaping

Haha! Nice one Moore.


----------



## SlimPickins

I can't say which bead is _better_, but I can say that I prefer metal bead. I don't clinch it, I staple the sh!t out of it, and if I'm taping the job I glass tape the edges....I hot mud the bead too. Over-kill? Yep. I've been asked to remove beads on occasion, when there's been a change, and it is _highly_ unpleasant.

I've hung my share of paper-faced and just don't care for it. The only vinyl I've hung is arch beads and tear-away.....good for their specialty applications but glue is a pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned.

Just my 2 bucks worth.


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> You debate like a left winger,,,, By addressing the minor issue of post #51 (deflection from the major issue). Thought you were a man, who was spending his spare time to help elect a Republican :thumbup:


 SO..Who was the dildo post directed to? :blink: :jester:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> SO..Who was the dildo post directed to? :blink: :jester:


Uwing, the painter :whistling2:

He ratted me out too

But it was worth it, since he was a painter, and he's gone now too


----------



## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Uwing, the painter :whistling2:
> 
> He ratted me out too
> 
> But it was worth it, since he was a painter, and he's gone now too


Haha. Flippen painters. They've got such a tough life :laughing:


----------



## chris

A painter once told me he liked the paper faced:whistling2:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

chris said:


> A painter once told me he liked the paper faced:whistling2:


Haha! Quit trying to start another fight Chris! lol :laughing:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

chris said:


> A painter once told me he liked the paper faced:whistling2:


actually, some of the painters were the only ones to complain about the paper bead. they said the nose was to fuzzy.

When you do sand down the nose on metal bead, it looks all pretty like, but the early type paper bead, the nose would burr up, or be all fuzzy like. A quick swipe with a damp/wet sponge would take care of that. 

The beads are a lot better now, nose don't burr up like it use to:yes:


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> actually, some of the painters were the only ones to complain about the paper bead. they said the nose was to fuzzy.
> 
> When you do sand down the nose on metal bead, it looks all pretty like, but the early type paper bead, the nose would burr up, or be all fuzzy like. A quick swipe with a damp/wet sponge would take care of that.
> 
> The beads are a lot better now, nose don't burr up like it use to:yes:


 Yeah ...That 120 can be a little rough on the nose.


----------



## cazna

I posted something once that i prob would have got a warning about, But 2buck seen it first and said i best remove it, Dam it was funny, Canadian babe who was wasted getting an interveiw on the street then showed the world what she was made of, All 50 or so of age and 20 or so stone and looked like she had a very hard life and hadnt changed clothes or had a shower of months, Had the interviewer lads laughing and running for there lives, I was wondering if it was 2bucks ex :whistling2:


----------



## JustMe

SlimPickins said:


> I can't say which bead is _better_, but I can say that I prefer metal bead. I don't clinch it, I staple the sh!t out of it, and if I'm taping the job I glass tape the edges....I hot mud the bead too. Over-kill? Yep. I've been asked to remove beads on occasion, when there's been a change, and it is _highly_ unpleasant.
> 
> I've hung my share of paper-faced and just don't care for it. The only vinyl I've hung is arch beads and tear-away.....good for their specialty applications but glue is a pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Just my 2 bucks worth.


When it comes to the question of which is 'better' Slim, if we had a chance to work together a bit, I Might be able to change your mind on the paper-faced. :whistling2: 

For 'better', I also factor in production. As an ex-drywaller friend likes to say, _I have the experience. I don't need any more. Now I want the money._
But with jobs where there isn't a lot of bead, what one uses usually would probably not matter a lot.

Like 2buck, I can put at least standup sticks on in under a minute, usually using taping mud, and there's no problems with it after. At least I haven't heard of anyone in the company having to come behind and fix mine, and I haven't been asked to go fix any of mine. At least not yet. Touch/Knock on wood. 

Rarely any paper bubbles, 'tight' so it takes less mud to coat it out and not have to coat as wide, t-bar fits better along the wall at the corners. I put some on late Friday morning, using pretty thick taping mud, and coated it out Friday afternoon, to catch an area up. No bubbles or anything. Another coat Monday morning, and Maybe a bit of a skim Monday afternoon if necessary, should have it ready for sanding Tuesday.

And solid on the wall, even over 5/8" board. They were pushing and prodding mine a few days ago, as there's been talk of switching over more to plastic, because other tapers in the company are messing up some. I was showing them it isn't necessary, if one knows how to put it on well enough.
But as I said in a previous post, maybe it would be good if some of the tapers did switch to plastic, since they might be too lazy or too set in their ways - and I kind of hate to say it, but maybe at times a little too stupid - to consistently enough put paper-faced on right.

On the tear away, you can use mud instead of glue, as has been mentioned here before. I put a few sticks on like that at the end of Friday and coated it out pretty well right away, as I wanted to as much as possible catch the area up with the rest of the job for Monday. I've done that before, and it's turned out fine.


----------



## TonyM

2buckcanuck said:


> actually, some of the painters were the only ones to complain about the paper bead. they said the nose was to fuzzy.
> 
> When you do sand down the nose on metal bead, it looks all pretty like, but the early type paper bead, the nose would burr up, or be all fuzzy like. A quick swipe with a damp/wet sponge would take care of that.
> 
> The beads are a lot better now, nose don't burr up like it use to:yes:


I never put the sander over the edge of the bead. I always finish it with a sponge sanding pad. Beadex and Sheetrock tape on beads are coated so won't fur up unless you are too aggressive sanding.


----------



## Philma Crevices

Zip strip (tearaway) does go on fine with mud, but will crack out much easier. TT has a mud set version coming that I want to get my hand on :thumbup:


----------



## JustMe

TonyM said:


> I never put the sander over the edge of the bead. I always finish it with a sponge sanding pad. Beadex and Sheetrock tape on beads are coated so won't fur up unless you are too aggressive sanding.


Something like aluminum oxide sandpaper (like eg. Joest's paper) might help some on the edge of the bead(?) Aluminum oxide can be a little easier on things than the commonly used silicon carbide sandpapers. At least that's what I've found.


----------



## JustMe

Philma Crevices said:


> Zip strip (tearaway) does go on fine with mud, but will crack out much easier.


That's interesting. Not saying it isn't so, but I haven't been seeing it in our work. Yet. But then we just got into doing it not that long ago. I still use glue, but at times use mud.

One of the long time tapers who runs some of our biggest jobs swears by mud. If it can be a problem, I'd like to mention it. Not that he'd likely listen.



Philma Crevices said:


> TT has a mud set version coming that I want to get my hand on :thumbup:


Another interesting item. Do tell more, if you would.


----------



## Philma Crevices

JustMe said:


> That's interesting. Not saying it isn't so, but I haven't been seeing it in our work. Yet. But then we just got into doing it not that long ago. I still use glue, but at times use mud.
> 
> One of the long time tapers who runs some of our biggest jobs swears by mud. If it can be a problem, I'd like to mention it. Not that he'd likely listen.


In my personal experiences, have not compliled pages of str testing :whistling2: but we have gotten cracking I suppose from vicious grid guys. Most of the job we stapled, only a few cracks where door guys banged a bit rough to get their frame/trim on, the end we mudded (to avoid more noise complaints from tennants upstairs)had hairline cracks in many areas. This has happened a few jobs, we don't regularly mud our stuff on.




> Another interesting item. Do tell more, if you would.


TT posted maybe a week ago about some new products, post #88 http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/unleash-beast-cb-3009/index2/


----------



## JustMe

Philma Crevices said:


> TT posted maybe a week ago about some new products, post #88 http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/unleash-beast-cb-3009/index2/


O, you meant T-T, not TT. 

I haven't been keeping up much on that thread. But I should. I did mention to the field supervisor we should take Joe up on his offer and get some samples.

I mentioned the other day about some of that bead to a taper on a jobsite I'm on. He said he remembered trying it 2-3 years ago. I said _Are you sure, because it sounds like it's new_. When I mentioned the rib on the inside of the 90 bead, he said he remembered that.

But that might have been during a time when he was enjoying some chemistry(?) Or maybe he did get his hands on some back then(?)


----------



## moore

JustMe said:


> O, you meant T-T, not TT.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up much on that thread. But I should. I did mention to the field supervisor we should take Joe up on his offer and get some samples.
> 
> I mentioned the other day about some of that bead to a taper on a jobsite I'm on. He said he remembered trying it 2-3 years ago. I said _Are you sure, because it sounds like it's new_. When I mentioned the rib on the inside of the 90 bead, he said he remembered that.
> 
> But that might have been during a time when he was enjoying some chemistry(?) Or maybe he did get his hands on some back then(?)


 I use to enjoy my chemistry:whistling2:..Got lots of work done back then,,and fast!,,but couldn't remember chit!!:no:


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## bmitch

JustMe said:


> O, you meant T-T, not TT.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up much on that thread. But I should. I did mention to the field supervisor we should take Joe up on his offer and get some samples.
> 
> I mentioned the other day about some of that bead to a taper on a jobsite I'm on. He said he remembered trying it 2-3 years ago. I said _Are you sure, because it sounds like it's new_. When I mentioned the rib on the inside of the 90 bead, he said he remembered that.
> 
> But that might have been during a time when he was enjoying some chemistry(?) Or maybe he did get his hands on some back then(?)


 i think these beads were new 2-3 years ago.i told the rep i did'nt use vinyl beads and did'nt want them,he shipped them to my supplyer anyways,my mistake was to take them.i was'nt going to use them until it was a job i did'nt give a sh!t [basement].everytime i went into the lumberyard it was the same question.whats the feedback on those beads ,the rep wants to know.i got pretty tired of hearing it.i did use about 10 sticks out of a full box ,that was enough for me ,i gave the rest away to another taper .


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## sos drywall

I got a related to the topic question but not quite: 
-how to join to stick of paper beads? Let's say a bulk head is 16 ft long, how join to them? just butt to butt? the problem is they tend to get loose a little and when I coat them there is a little bump. I was thinking about stapling them, just the ends.
-second question: how much should I charge for just doing the beads: install, two coats (or 3 if needed), sand. Materials are supplied. 9 feet ceilings. A lot of bulkheads above 8 foot height. I know price should not be discussed since it depends on area and there are too many inputs, but please help.


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## 2buckcanuck

sos drywall said:


> I got a related to the topic question but not quite:
> -how to join to stick of paper beads? Let's say a bulk head is 16 ft long, how join to them? just butt to butt? the problem is they tend to get loose a little and when I coat them there is a little bump. I was thinking about stapling them, just the ends.
> -second question: how much should I charge for just doing the beads: install, two coats (or 3 if needed), sand. Materials are supplied. 9 feet ceilings. A lot of bulkheads above 8 foot height. I know price should not be discussed since it depends on area and there are too many inputs, but please help.


You can staple or put a 3" scrap of bead (covered in mud) under the 2 beads, it keeps them lined up.

Sub-contract rate here for beads is 38 cents a ln ft (all applications)

Bull nose $5 bucks 8" per stick

Height- must be over 8x8, or total in 64 sq ft and be over 10' in height to ceiling . $115

If your talking something like this:yes:


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> You can staple or put a 3" scrap of bead (covered in mud) under the 2 beads, it keeps them lined up.
> 
> Sub-contract rate here for beads is 38 cents a ln ft (all applications)
> 
> Bull nose $5 bucks 8" per stick
> 
> Height- must be over 8x8, or total in 64 sq ft and be over 10' in height to ceiling . $115
> 
> If your talking something like this:yes:


Your Bull nose goes for .63 per ft
And that ceiling You charge. An extra 115 for it.
That would 1.79'pf.


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## chris

We start at 10 bucks per stick and go up from there. Bead is gettin spendy once you factor it all together. We would lose money at 5 bucks


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## sos drywall

2buckcanuck said:


> You can staple or put a 3" scrap of bead (covered in mud) under the 2 beads, it keeps them lined up.
> 
> Sub-contract rate here for beads is 38 cents a ln ft (all applications)
> 
> Bull nose $5 bucks 8" per stick
> 
> Height- must be over 8x8, or total in 64 sq ft and be over 10' in height to ceiling . $115
> 
> If your talking something like this:yes:


Thanks, 2buck! It's a big help.
I was offered a job to install and finish beads in new apartments. There are approximately 34 to 46 8 foot sticks on average per apartment, so 270 to 370 linear feet of beads per unit. So maximum $ I'll get is 370*0.38=$140?:blink: 

Yes, that ceiling on a pic is something similar to what I saw in those units. $115 per 64 ft is not bad. That's $1.79 a foot. All right, then, I'll throw a number at the guy.


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## sos drywall

Oh, and btw, a scrap piece of bead under two beads is genius.


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## chris

sos drywall said:


> Oh, and btw, a scrap piece of bead under two beads is genius.


 It will also hump out your bead:yes: . If its a square corner use one piece no coat, No seam. Best way to do long beads on soffits and once installed you can box them with ease.


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## sos drywall

chris said:


> It will also hump out your bead:yes: . If its a square corner use one piece no coat, No seam. Best way to do long beads on soffits and once installed you can box them with ease.


Yep, nocoat would be wonderful, but when you mention that a box of 100' is around $50, the client goes


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## 2buckcanuck

chris said:


> It will also hump out your bead:yes: . If its a square corner use one piece no coat, No seam. Best way to do long beads on soffits and once installed you can box them with ease.


No, it don't hump it out, you would think it does but it don't. I find paper bead tends to bend in right when the 2 meet, Don't know why, but it always seems to. SOS just needs to look down the beads , to make sure all is good.

Yes to no-coat, but too pricey here in Commie land. Most only use it on inside 45 here


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## 2buckcanuck

sos drywall said:


> Thanks, 2buck! It's a big help.
> I was offered a job to install and finish beads in new apartments. There are approximately 34 to 46 8 foot sticks on average per apartment, so 270 to 370 linear feet of beads per unit. So maximum $ I'll get is 370*0.38=$140?:blink:
> 
> Yes, that ceiling on a pic is something similar to what I saw in those units. $115 per 64 ft is not bad. That's $1.79 a foot. All right, then, I'll throw a number at the guy.


Something don't sound right SOS, you sure they just don't mean install ????

2bjr and I did that in Toronto, think we were getting 25 cents 12 years ago. But if their wanting you to finish them too, you could be walking into a clown show.

You talking London or up the 401 some where ?????


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## sos drywall

2buckcanuck said:


> Something don't sound right SOS, you sure they just don't mean install ????
> 
> 2bjr and I did that in Toronto, think we were getting 25 cents 12 years ago. But if their wanting you to finish them too, you could be walking into a clown show.
> 
> You talking London or up the 401 some where ?????


Yeah, man, it's in downtown London, the new building on York. 

The guy is looking someone to do the beads, cause they are busy, they want install (although he said I wouldn't be able to handle the volume alone, so they would help install beads), mud and sand, basically ready to paint.


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## bmedra9

*no coat bead is the best*

we have been using no coat bead for about 8 yrs and have had only positive results less mud to fill, no cracks on warranty work, put right through mud hopper and squares off nice with a roller


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