# Need to vent and get idea's for knockdown



## Whitey97

Alright, so I did knockdown on a new builders home. Everything looked great prior to paint. Normally I get the paint, at least the priming, I didn't on this one. Well, the painters came in, and I told them, "if you're going to do these ceilings please backroll, as to not leave shadowing and lap marks" well guess what? Those morons came in with their wonderful experiance and the great product of SW's CHB (sh!t paint) and now there's exactly what I was afraid of. Now the builder is pointing their finger at me, and the painters has already f'd it up. Today I get a call from the builder, "the painter sprayed SW 200 (over priced sh!t paint) and it's still there and I'm not signing off on payment, and you can't start the next house till this is figured out!"

Those of you who are painters/tapers, do you have any experience in this?

The ceilings are flat, there is no humps. I took a peice of trim 6' and put it up on the ceiling to show her. You can only see it in one room, the "window room" all it looks like from an elevated level is shadowing where my mud was.

I believe it's from not using a "PVA sealer"

What do you think?
all comments, questions and smart ass remarks are welcome! Thank you


----------



## Whitey97

Nobody?

I think just to get my point across to the builder, I'm going to go and do the worst room myself just to make a point with the pva and do it the right way. I wouldn't be suprized if it all turned out looking good after either......


----------



## [email protected]

You are exactly right IMO. I personally use (at the recommendation of several painters with over 25 years experience) Iowa PPG Builder Spec Pro PVA Primer / Latex. I use it on ceilings with an airless, cross-hatching the spray, followed by a back roll with a 50/50 wool/nylon roller $5.00 each and roll perpendicular to the taper joints.

I'd get an opinion from another local painter that your builder will trust. Or repaint with a PVA you trust with the understanding that WHEN the problem goes away with your cure, you get paid for the drywall and the primer plus a premium. And possibly ALL the primer in the future.

A200 is not intended to be used as a primer. Your SW rep should back you up on that, lest he's teabaggin' the painter cuz he'll be a bigger client day in day out. Ask an Iowa PPG guy too. You'll for sure get a straight answer from a rep without skin in the game.(and he'll want to convert you) Besides that the Builder Spec pro can be had for about $37 per 5 gallon, way cheaper than A200 or anything else SW pimps. Hope this helps, know how aggravating this kinda stuff is....


----------



## Whitey97

You have no idea how frustrating it is.... well, yeah maybe you do! f'n a! grr.... I just got finished after all the moron's were there tonight making a mess of the house. Wood work everywhere and here I am, feeling like a fool. There to prove everyone wrong. It just better f'n work! 

So I went in there, poly'd the b' off. Start spraying, keep in mind it's about 10 pm. My f'n halogen bulb burns out on me. I have a back up, well guess what? my f'n helper boy decided to not tell me and stuff it in the trailer! son-of-a-b!tch. So at this point it's midnight, I call my wife...."hunny, can you bring me a light?" I got to hear holy hell for that! So she brings me another halogen sitting in the shop. That one's burnt up too! UHHHH! Well, I did think ahead, and told her to bring ol' trusty my 100 incandecent bulb. Well.... hours later (it felt like) here I am, over spray covered sitting in the shop complaining to you guys! I hope this makes someone smile!

btw. we don't have Iowa here. I stand behind Diamond Vogel. Besides that, there's the typical SW and Hirshfields, neither will I ever use. I would rather use Behr from HD than either of those!

I did tell the owner of the company that today, not the "lady" I've been dealing with. I told him "now, after tonight and this whole thing is in the past. I want full compensation for making me do this, all of the paint from here out, and not 1 word from the wench that's been nagging on me for the last 2 weeks!


----------



## [email protected]

Damn the luck!!! Those halogens have an uncanny way of letting us down at the most inopportune times. I'm sure that once daylight hits those ceilings you'll be vindicated.


----------



## Whitey97

I'm kind of scared to go out there today, I know that if they don't look perfect, I'll have a sz 11 Nike inserted in my mouth.


----------



## Whitey97

I'm going to post a pic of the ceiling that's giving me the issue in my profile, I'll try and see if I can link it. Tell me what you think?!?


----------



## Whitey97

http://http://www.drywalltalk.com/members/whitey97-481/albums/headache-ceiling/


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

Whitey97 said:


> You have no idea how frustrating it is.... well, yeah maybe you do! f'n a! grr.... I just got finished after all the moron's were there tonight making a mess of the house. Wood work everywhere and here I am, feeling like a fool. There to prove everyone wrong. It just better f'n work!
> 
> So I went in there, poly'd the b' off. Start spraying, keep in mind it's about 10 pm. My f'n halogen bulb burns out on me. I have a back up, well guess what? my f'n helper boy decided to not tell me and stuff it in the trailer! son-of-a-b!tch. So at this point it's midnight, I call my wife...."hunny, can you bring me a light?" I got to hear holy hell for that! So she brings me another halogen sitting in the shop. That one's burnt up too! UHHHH! Well, I did think ahead, and told her to bring ol' trusty my 100 incandecent bulb. Well.... hours later (it felt like) here I am, over spray covered sitting in the shop complaining to you guys! I hope this makes someone smile!
> 
> btw. we don't have Iowa here. I stand behind Diamond Vogel. Besides that, there's the typical SW and Hirshfields, neither will I ever use. I would rather use Behr from HD than either of those!
> 
> I did tell the owner of the company that today, not the "lady" I've been dealing with. I told him "now, after tonight and this whole thing is in the past. I want full compensation for making me do this, all of the paint from here out, and not 1 word from the wench that's been nagging on me for the last 2 weeks!


man.....heres what you do:

Get drunker than hell this weekend.
:drink:


----------



## Whitey97

I can't! f'n broke cuz all my money is into mud, labor and bead! and that wench won't sign off on my check!

Nah... I'm planning on going to the cabin, doing some fishing and sayin' the working class can kiss my @$$!


----------



## [email protected]

Having trouble pulling up the link, ******. Thanks again for the proposal. Found a similar one a Office depot today and used one tonite. Getting them to sign on the spot is great sales edge. Gets them used to signing their name (like on the check).

Did your ceiling pass okay? It must have or you'd have said otherwise.


----------



## Whitey97

link didn't work? well damn.... if you click on my name to the left, it's in my profile under headache ceiling.

To tell you the truth, I kind of hid out today. I have a pond in my back yard. I sat in my boat and fished for about 4 hours and just b!tched and moaned all day, while waiting for a call from the builder, being I called them a total of 12 times today looking for my check!


----------



## Whitey97

I also did a ton of up keep on my tools today, and fixed broken tools (like my halogen lights)


----------



## [email protected]

I found some Halogens a couple of years ago that have place to store an extra bulb inside one of the legs with a cap to keep it inside. Pretty cool, if no one uses it and then forgets to tell you it needs a new spare.


----------



## Whitey97

yeah, I looked there... it was burnt out too... Why someone would put a used dead bulb in the storage spot is beyond me... but leave it to my guys.. I bet they think it's funny


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

Whitey97 said:


> yeah, I looked there... it was burnt out too... Why someone would put a used dead bulb in the storage spot is beyond me... but leave it to my guys.. I bet they think it's funny


employees will always be employees, period. hah.

....no one will ever care about your business as much as YOU.


----------



## [email protected]

Kind of a moot point now, but if I ever caught an employee pulling a stunt like that on me, I'd dock his pay real hard. High-school type pranks don't go over big with me. But if they're truly just that dumb, I see to it that their pay rate reflects it.

Totally unrelated subject, but I've got probably 15 boxes of reg. arch and bull arch in the shop that were opened because somebody didn't know that the label on the side and both ends told them the contents. I used to get called in the field and told we were out, could I bring another box. Being forward thinking, I'd go get 2-3 cases to save a trip to the supply house. Was too busy at the time to pull inventory, kept throwing the extras on the rack. By the time I figured it out, I could be a Trim-Tex stocking dealer.


----------



## Whitey97

Luckly we're small enough where I keep quarterly inventory reports.


----------



## Whitey97

Still nothing.... In fact nobody has even called me. Of course, I"ve tried calling all of them.


----------



## Whitey97

*Correction*

I got a call today from the builder. She said, "since we've had bad weather "cloud coverage" and not full sun, I haven't been able to see the ceilings [flash] since you've re-painted it, If I can't see it on the next sunny day, I will release the funds" 

things are looking up, I think?


----------



## Whitey97

alright... another update.

I got a call tonight from the owner, who I guess the builder answers too.

He ****ed me around on price, and more or less won, but I'm getting money at 11am tomorrow.


does 280 12' sheets, knockdown, tray ceiling in the master, massive amount of bead, many 120*, 3 boxes of straight-flex, and 30 boxes of mud. $5300 for the rocking and taping sound a little Fuk'd? including materials? I told him to keep his work.

He told me he had someone that would do them for that, they can have it. I don't play that game.


----------



## [email protected]

.40? You didn't buy the board too, did you? I'd be livid and lawyer up. That is pretty f****d up right there.


----------



## Whitey97

No, thankfully he bought the board.

Keep in mind though, these are the people that bitched at me when the painter f'd up the ceiling.


----------



## muddymen

Ya I'll tell you everyone blames everyone before them...the framers blame the arcitect, the hangers blame the framers, the finishers blame the hangers, and the painters blame the finishers...ect. So who is really to blame? How about the guy that stops giving a f**k thats who!


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Well was the ceiling fixed or not?? How did it look after doing it yourself. If it was fine and they have no justifiable reason then I'd say court.


----------



## [email protected]

Still if he bought the board, that .40 included you repainting? Man, that's low even in our market. This the same guy that's been giving so much work of late?


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

I just re-read your post about they have somebody for that price blah blah blah. Flick them a quarter tell'em to call the psychic friends network and ask them if they seen this comin. Then yell in their face "GO FU** YOURSELF" I'll bet they didn't.


----------



## MudMonkey

So who was paying you? The HO? Because here in Calgary when someone starts ****ing me around on payment I go and put a lean on their house. As soon as the bank calls them I get a check.


----------



## Whitey97

Honestly the whole thing is confusing but I'll try and explain it.

The builder was about to go under as they were paying there subs too much, I guess.

So the realitor became involved and wanted to become Johnny big shot.

He pays all the bills, buys all the materials, deals with the subs. I'm not really sure why the builder even has anything to do with it. I think she caught the realitor guy in bed with someone else. I dunno..... but his whole motto is, if you don't want to work for this rate, I'll find someone else who will, it's a slow market and you have to do this. Very manipulative f*cker.

The ceiling (only one to prove my point) looked mint when I was done. So the painters once again sprayed a top coat paint over it (still no pva as I requested) and the rest of them look like butt.

I told him today when I got my check, or half of it, being the garage wasn't finished as it just had the floor put in a week ago, after this he can go f*ck himself. I don't want his sh*t anymore if this is the stuff I have to deal with. He then told me he's never had anyone whine so much. I just shook my head and cashed the check with my finger in the air. Oh, and he ***** me down another 400. So now I only get 5200 when I fire tape the garage, as I just finished rocking it tonight.


----------



## [email protected]

I certainly hope you left a paper sack full off butt pie in the wall for the pr***.


----------



## Whitey97

I know where he lives.......


----------



## eastex1963

Whitey97 said:


> Honestly the whole thing is confusing but I'll try and explain it.
> 
> The builder was about to go under as they were paying there subs too much, I guess.
> 
> So the realitor became involved and wanted to become Johnny big shot.
> 
> He pays all the bills, buys all the materials, deals with the subs. I'm not really sure why the builder even has anything to do with it. I think she caught the realitor guy in bed with someone else. I dunno..... but his whole motto is, if you don't want to work for this rate, I'll find someone else who will, it's a slow market and you have to do this. Very manipulative f*cker.
> 
> The ceiling (only one to prove my point) looked mint when I was done. So the painters once again sprayed a top coat paint over it (still no pva as I requested) and the rest of them look like butt.
> 
> I told him today when I got my check, or half of it, being the garage wasn't finished as it just had the floor put in a week ago, after this he can go f*ck himself. I don't want his sh*t anymore if this is the stuff I have to deal with. He then told me he's never had anyone whine so much. I just shook my head and cashed the check with my finger in the air. Oh, and he ***** me down another 400. So now I only get 5200 when I fire tape the garage, as I just finished rocking it tonight.



Hey ******, I feel your pain.....After reading this post carefully, I think the key word here is SHE....I walked off from a builder/Realtor about a year ago after 5 years and 140 houses. I'd had enough. You'd think that after building that many houses these people would have a clue..not her. Couldn't tell her that...NO...not Miss Iknowitall, I've been doing this 5 years!! Well, I told her that just because someone has been "doing" this 5 years doesn't mean they have a clue.....she spent most her time shopping online with her female assistant. Didn't leave the office. The subs, literally, had to check on the jobs, order materials, and tell the other subs when they could come in and start.....pitiful. Again, I'm sure there are women out there that do a helluva job as GC's. But, not this one. 

Good luck buddy, 
David


----------



## [email protected]

Guess he'll be on the "halloween" list, eh?


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

I don't know if i could put it off that long. All I did was read the story and I'm a little pissed off. I guess because I relate. I try as best I can to learn from these experiences and be sure to not let it happen twice.


----------



## Whitey97

A+, It won't happen again. I finished fire taping his garage tonight, after being shorted rock, I went and got a peice to finish and patched in around the garage door just to finish the beast, as the owner made me sign an agreement as to have it finished by the 22nd. Come hell or high water, I was meeting that date.

Darren, Who said anything about Halloween? There's a reason Everything of mine is routed through my PO Box. Can you say after the check clears?

David, You've done work for this f'd up outfit too? Holy sh!t, it's the same thing!?!?! except the office girl, is her two daughters. Enough said.



And can I add. The painter came up to me today when I was putzn' around there today, he told me that all of my walls are flashing too. I told him, "what can I do to make you happy?" he says "well, there's nothing you can do" I then replied, "well get the f$&% out of my face then. Aren't you glad that you primed the entire house in the CHB" (that SW had sampled them, which they had never used prior) I don't give a f' if that house sells or get's struck by lightning tomorrow. I have pics that show I'm done. F' them!


----------



## [email protected]

I would, bare minimum, go see his/her banker once the check clears and be very diplomatic, plead your case. Bankers aren't wanting to hear stories like this, but it'll $#it in their Cheerios. Don't know what you had to sign, but I'd go after the builder in small claims court. Even if you only get a $3500 judgement, it'll make the paper, and buyers read the paper. And you've got 4+ months to plot a sweet prank, too.


----------



## silverstilts

Had a similar experience back about 4 years ago only the paint flashed through knock-down. I don't know why perhaps it was like a wind tunnel without the doors installed yet and it was very hot out when the painter painted it , it was weird they used pva primer but every seam showed butts and flats . Of coarse it was in the vaulted living room , vaulted kitchen , and vaulted porch area. I re-masked all the freshly painted walls with the trim already in and skimmed out the whole thing. the home owner insisted that he wanted the guy that did the house next door to do the work , which was the way it was suppose to look . I told him that would be me , the dumb ass said no it wasn't I was there when they textured the ceilings , back and forth we argued , the guy had a brain meltdown or something . He even bitched to the GC to have him hire someone else to do the work but the GC stood up for me. The skim coat didn't stop there I ended up doing two other bedrooms also. I ended up repainting myself to make sure things were done right , the only problem was where i pulled down my masking some of the fresh paint came down with it off the walls so there was some more patching , and then of coarse a little back charge of repainting that , thank god the painter did some cash work for me. I really feel for you ****** going the extra distance to make thing right only to take it in the shorts on the money. We have all been there once or twice and not much you can do about it except make sure that word gets out how this contractor treats his subs... I myself have probably ruin the reputation of a couple of contractors in my area because of there devious & crooked work practices to the point that they no longer can get any decent jobs around here any longer. Payback is a Bitch , always ways to get even ! The one thing I was able to do on this respray was the home owner decided on bull-nose which i was able to up charge , and believe me I did that and then some , more than double what it should have been for all the headaches.


----------



## Whitey97

:devil2: I have my ways of getting even. I always do, karma's a bitch!

Stilts, we need to get together next round I'm at my cabin and b's stories, I think it would be a blast. I'll be at my cabin for the 4th, you open?


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Sounds like a "bromance" in the works.


----------



## Whitey97

we'll see..........


----------



## Whitey97

This may be the last post on this topic! YAY!

The builder (the bitch) called me up yesterday and called me a slop artist because I had some mud fall out of my tools and fall on the floor for the fire tape in the garage. Which may I add I took my 32" scraper and did a once around on all the concrete.

She asked "how am I suppose to get this up?" I told her to "use a tooth brush"

I'll be getting my "welfare" check from that job today, supposedly. We'll see what hoop they make me jump through now.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Seems like these chodes are clueless on how a house is built. Let them be someone else's headache.


----------



## Whitey97

No check.

I got a call from the owners receptionist telling me I can come in anytime and pick it up. I call them back at about 4 pm letting them know I'm on a job, I won't be able to get there till around 6ish. She said that was fine, she would be there until 6:30.

I get there at 6:25 the receptionist is gone, owner is there, he tells me I have to come durring "business hours" he doesn't have time for it now.

I just told him, "I fukin' knew better, I knew you a$$holes would make me jump through another hoop" turned around ad told him I would see him at 9 and said in anger, "I wish I had fukin' bankers hours" and slammed the door. 

I don't think it will ever end........


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

G o o s s e f r a b b a h.....


----------



## [email protected]

Might look into reporting this anus to the American Subcontractor Association. They probably can't /won't act on it but it might be good to look into. Or the local HBA.


----------



## eastex1963

Hey ******,
Someone may have mentioned it, and I know it's a PITA, but have you thought about putting a lien on the house? That usually gets their attention. Just a thought.
David


----------



## silverstilts

well if he picked up a check today to late he probably signed a lien waiver... don't know but myself i would just make the sob miserable for the rest of his life.... Maybe we should all get together and go see the prick and do some persuading ......... Hey ****** lets get the word out on this contractor so we all know who not to work for eh !


----------



## Whitey97

Bill Ryan

Ryan Realestate

www.ryanrealestate.com

GBI Homes is the ass sacks that they do their biz with.

No, no money, no check. Nobody there at 6 when I was available today. Maybe tomorrow.

I thought about going through the lien thing. But, it's really not worth even more of the headache, and I'd rather cut my losses now.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Do the lien, it'll make ya feel better in the end. Also put their name in the contractors who don't pay thread.


----------



## Anonymous Drywall

There are some real rotten people in this world. What a nightmare! I would just cut my losses. No matter what ****** does its not going to change anything. Some people are just turds. This woman is going to just keep creating chaos till karma finally bites her in the A$$. Scumbags always get it in the end.


----------



## silverstilts

Whitey97 said:


> Bill Ryan
> 
> Ryan Realestate
> 
> www.ryanrealestate.com
> 
> GBI Homes is the ass sacks that they do their biz with.
> 
> No, no money, no check. Nobody there at 6 when I was available today. Maybe tomorrow.
> 
> I thought about going through the lien thing. But, it's really not worth even more of the headache, and I'd rather cut my losses now.


 It is worth the headache , Just go to the courthouse get a lien or any office supply but still go to the courthouse and get the legal description of the property put it in the contractor , homeowners names (both husband and wife) fill it out and present it to him and say either the money or you will file it..... Legally they will not be able to close on the home and it will certainly put a little pressure on them to pay up.... make sure it is against the homeowner as well not just the contractor... It will really fk up there credit unless it is satisfied.... payback remember.


----------



## rebel20

******, 
You ever try using a collection agency? It costs but it might be better than getting nothing. And you can concentrate on those other jobs leaving the headache somewhere else. just a suggestion.

Rebel


----------



## [email protected]

Or....Go buy that shack on a contingency contract. Where you don't have to close unless you sell your house in say 90 days. Price yours out of the market, so it _won't _sell. Tie up the builder for 3 months. Then send a buddy over to do the same.


----------



## Whitey97

I'll just stand by and watch him loose it in the future when prices go back up and he can't find anyone to do his sh!t work for that price.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Well did you at least get your cabbage?


----------



## Whitey97

I got $5200 and multiple jabs in at him. Now, I'll just wait and see what happens.


----------



## silverstilts

Did you sign a lien release yet ? If not go file a lien for the rest of it make it tough on him and the owners ..... make sure it is in both husband and wife's name .... along with the contractor file a lien agaist there existing property , most times if the homeowner is trying to screw you out the land home is in the wife's name then if she is not listed you are so screwed ........ They cannot close or sell property unless all judgements are cleared up you will have them by the balls :yes:


----------



## Whitey97

I didn't sign anything, intentionally


----------



## Bill from Indy

do the lien ******...for the simple fact that you aren't going to bow down..more than likely, they are just trying to push your buttons to see how far they can get...if they can push you over, its more in there pocket...

Did you make them sign a contract initially stating the price? Any job anymore that I do over $2000, they sign a contract or I don't do it. 

I hope it works out for ya...if not, id go through the whole damn house at about midnight with a sawzaw and cut it to shreds

Ok, im a dumbass sorry...didnt see how old this thread was...did you ever get it resolved though?


----------



## Whitey97

Yeah, that was long ago, I pretty much got boned on the whole deal. Whatever, someone elses problem now.


----------



## tricounty dwall

ive ran into the same problem before and thought it was my fault.. so i redid the ceiling and after they painted. i had the same problem.. if a painter doesnt know what they r doing they will mess up knock down


----------



## spackle samurai

Whitey97 said:


> Alright, so I did knockdown on a new builders home. Everything looked great prior to paint. Normally I get the paint, at least the priming, I didn't on this one. Well, the painters came in, and I told them, "if you're going to do these ceilings please backroll, as to not leave shadowing and lap marks" well guess what? Those morons came in with their wonderful experiance and the great product of SW's CHB (sh!t paint) and now there's exactly what I was afraid of. Now the builder is pointing their finger at me, and the painters has already f'd it up. Today I get a call from the builder, "the painter sprayed SW 200 (over priced sh!t paint) and it's still there and I'm not signing off on payment, and you can't start the next house till this is figured out!"
> 
> Those of you who are painters/tapers, do you have any experience in this?
> 
> The ceilings are flat, there is no humps. I took a peice of trim 6' and put it up on the ceiling to show her. You can only see it in one room, the "window room" all it looks like from an elevated level is shadowing where my mud was.
> 
> I believe it's from not using a "PVA sealer"
> 
> What do you think?
> all comments, questions and smart ass remarks are welcome! Thank you


 painting over knockdown is always a problem.unless the painter is experienced with it they could use the best paint on the market and screw it up,the more they try to fix it the worse it will get.they need to use a real flat paint or level 5 product.if you are fixing it ,and its flashed in spots and looks shadowed,as long as the ceilings are white and your knockdown isnt like stucco just re shoot over top if your tex mud matches the same white no one will know the difference.


----------



## igorson

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> employees will always be employees, period. hah.
> 
> ....no one will ever care about your business as much as YOU.


You are right I met very few people who does his_* best knockdown ceiling*_ working for me. So anyway we need each other in our work.
http://1drywall.com/textures.html


----------



## jmr

is gbi a division of chase? so is mahtomy homes.. all of which are absolute bottom dollar builders.


----------



## Mudslinger

....


----------



## jmr

Mudslinger said:


> Lol I've had the pleasure of working on Mattamy homes(pronounced like mahtomy)! What a hard builder to work for. If their heater goes out it doesn't matter to them, you still need to have it done on time. There you are finishing coating the job at midnight(which of course is against their many rules), because it had to sit and dry all day.:furious: I'm glad it was their jobs I "tuned" my spray truck in on.:whistling2:


they can press people like that because they have the subs absorb all the responsibility.. their current drywall contractor is prepping off all the floors before tape out with rosin paper. this is at bottom dollar i might add..


----------



## Mudslinger

....


----------

