# man or machien race



## better by hand (Mar 23, 2013)

I tape and finish by hand and I had a guy challenge me that he could tape faster with a banjo. We were in a twin single project and started at the same time on either side. Granite a banjo is not a zook and i use an angle roller in my angles for applying the mud, I beat him by 15 min! Any other race stories?


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

You apply the mud to your flats and butts with a knife then embed the tape? Was this a race to apply just the tape or finish the house? Did he use a roller/flusher?


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## better by hand (Mar 23, 2013)

yes it was just a race to tape. he did'nt have a flusher he wiped it down by hand but he claimed that a banjo was so much faster.


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

I would chalk it up to your roller/flusher. I don't think there is any way to beat a banjo by hand.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

That's a ridiculously stupid race. Sorry to say.
One guy uses a banjo but has no roller or flusher for his angles? So he does them by hand, and then the other guy tapes by hand but uses rollers and flushers in corners? Pretty messed up race.

So more or less, one of you won by 15 minutes, but both of you took 3 times longer than it should have?! :jester:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

PrecisionTaping said:


> That's a ridiculously stupid race. Sorry to say.
> One guy uses a banjo but has no roller or flusher for his angles? So he does them by hand, and then the other guy tapes by hand but uses rollers and flushers in corners? Pretty messed up race.
> 
> So more or less, one of you won by 15 minutes, but both of you took 3 times longer than it should have?! :jester:


So the guy with the machien tools (roller and flusher) won.


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## better by hand (Mar 23, 2013)

I may need to clairify. the roller i use is a 3" wool roller you dip in your bucket then roll the mud on. I then apply the tape and wipe it down.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

better by hand said:


> I may need to clairify. the roller i use is a 3" wool roller you dip in your bucket then roll the mud on. I then apply the tape and wipe it down.


oh oh!
Sorry then.
That means I have to clarify as well.

So more or less, one of you won by 15 minutes, but both of you took *4* times longer than it should have?! :jester:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

better by hand said:


> I may need to clairify. the roller i use is a 3" wool roller you dip in your bucket then roll the mud on. I then apply the tape and wipe it down.


OK - starting to get the picture. Well good on ya then. Gazman uses the same roller and has a good video of it in use. 

Now if you want a race on filling the flats by hand or using the box....


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## better by hand (Mar 23, 2013)

Put the race to the side, everyone around here would much rather finish behind a hand taper than a banjo or zook guy. Any thoughts?


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

let the onslaught begin


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## gotmud (Mar 21, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> oh oh!
> Sorry then.
> That means I have to clarify as well.
> 
> So more or less, one of you won by 15 minutes, but both of you took 4 times longer than it should have?! :jester:


Haha you crack me up PT LOL


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

RenoRob said:


> let the onslaught begin


U said it Rob! :thumbsup:
If i could b assed i would but i'm 2 tired but its comin thats for sure!


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

better by hand said:


> Put the race to the side, everyone around here would much rather finish behind a hand taper than a banjo or zook guy. Any thoughts?


Oh ya love finishing behind a hand taper, oh wait a minute, we don't hand tape!!! Hand taping is for patchwork and tiny jobs. I would much rather run the gun and wipe joints myself. And angles?? Put em on with the gun and roll em, glaze em, pick em and done!! Box it, pump it, it's all about the tools. Why waste time hand taping? You did well in your banjo race but how do you think you would fare against a pro running a bazooka??? To each their own, but in my mind I already know the answer!!


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Why is it that closed minds dont come with closed mouths????

12 years of hand taping, 4 years of tool taping, I know the answer as well.


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

"Why is it that closed minds dont come with closed mouths????"

Love it!!! Lol


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

"Upstarts" and "set in their ways" are wading in de-nile river if they think they can out produce auto tools.


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## better by hand (Mar 23, 2013)

I concede that auto tools are great for production and I never in my wildest dreams think i could be faster than them. You guys kick butt. However as far as QUALITY you can't beat a hawk and trowel.


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## harvv (Jul 21, 2012)

Pretty impressive win. After watching how fast a lot of the guys on this site are with their banjos its hard for me to see someone beating that by hand. Hell, even on PTs vid where he is just showing proper use of the homax and not going as quick as he possibly can he is able to move quite fast. 

Would be cool to see some video of it.

edit: Assuming youre using a pan. Would be cool to see some sort of mud capacity comparison between average pan, normal banjo, homax, cp tube, etc. Along with how long it takes to reload each item.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

better by hand said:


> I may need to clairify. the roller i use is a 3" wool roller you dip in your bucket then roll the mud on. I then apply the tape and wipe it down.


 I'm a hand taper...Ya wanna race me?? ......BRING IT ON !
I'll even let your banjo buddy help you out:thumbsup:..... :yes:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

moore said:


> I'm a hand taper...Ya wanna race me?? ......BRING IT ON !
> I'll even let your banjo buddy help you out:thumbsup:..... :yes:


Setting the stage for the WORLD NATIONAL DRYWALL TAPING CHAMPIONSHIPS.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

I want in on this...My bango has an auto mud filler on it...I can just push a button to fill my bango:thumbsup: the only down time will be adding tape :thumbup:


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## DrywallerDustin (Mar 1, 2013)

better by hand said:


> I concede that auto tools are great for production and I never in my wildest dreams think i could be faster than them. You guys kick butt. However as far as QUALITY you can't beat a hawk and trowel.


Quality comes down to the individual, regardless of your method.
I'm sure there are hawk and trowel guys that do acceptable work, most don't. Just like there are plenty of machine tapers who do a ****ty job and a few machine tapers who's work is great


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

DrywallerDustin said:


> Quality comes down to the individual, regardless of your method.
> I'm sure there are hawk and trowel guys that do acceptable work, most don't. Just like there are plenty of machine tapers who do a ****ty job and a few machine tapers who's work is great


Bread made by hand Always taste better. Handcarved furniture always looks better. 
They contain the human element The skill Of a true tradesman. 

These things can be machined and mass-produced for Reduced cost And be acceptable. They sacrifice the quality of a tradesmen


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Bread made by hand Always taste better. Handcarved furniture always looks better.
> They contain the human element The skill Of a true tradesman.
> 
> These things can be machined and mass-produced for Reduced cost And be acceptable. They sacrifice the quality of a tradesmen


Just because I use auto tools to up my production doesn't mean that I don't give my work the extra love that it needs by hand. It's not like the tools just do ALL the work themselves. No matter how you look at it, drywall is still a handcrafted trade. A good finisher is a good finisher, no matter what tools they choose to use. Speed and quality makes more money!!


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Mountain Man said:


> Just because I use auto tools to up my production doesn't mean that I don't give my work the extra love that it needs by hand. It's not like the tools just do ALL the work themselves. No matter how you look at it, drywall is still a handcrafted trade. A good finisher is a good finisher, no matter what tools they choose to use. Speed and quality makes more money!!


Yes auto tools save time and as a result make more money. I'm all for that. As soon as you put your love touch on it it is hand finished.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

DrywallerDustin said:


> Quality comes down to the individual, regardless of your method.
> I'm sure there are hawk and trowel guys that do acceptable work, most don't. Just like there are plenty of machine tapers who do a ****ty job and a few machine tapers who's work is great


 Most don't?:blink:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

better by hand said:


> I may need to clairify. the roller i use is a 3" wool roller you dip in your bucket then roll the mud on. I then apply the tape and wipe it down.


 Are you using mesh for your flats? and butts? There is no way a hand taper can tape faster than a banjo taper


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

chris said:


> Are you using mesh for your flats? and butts? There is no way a hand taper can tape faster than a banjo taper


 Oh!!!! You want some too!!!!  Bring it on Idaho!!!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> Oh!!!! You want some too!!!!  Bring it on Idaho!!!


:lol: Haha! Moore's getting all wound up! :jester:

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!


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## gotmud (Mar 21, 2011)

moore said:


> Oh!!!! You want some too!!!!  Bring it on Idaho!!!


Hahaha! Get em Moore lmao


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

better by hand said:


> However as far as QUALITY you can't beat a hawk and trowel.


As far as quality goes,you can't beat a quality craftsman with a full set of machine tools who is also a quality hand finisher.The quality comes from the personality of the mechanic, not the tool he uses.

I was a hand taper/finisher for about 2 years as a young buck,so don't think you can feed me your ignorance.:furious:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> :lol: Haha! Moore's getting all wound up! :jester:
> 
> LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!


 Bring that **** box with ya Moose boy!!! [snow man]


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Muddauber said:


> As far as quality goes,you can't beat a quality craftsman with a full set of machine tools who is also a quality hand finisher.The quality comes from the personality of the mechanic, not the tool he uses.
> 
> I was a hand taper/finisher for about 2 years as a young buck,so don't think you can feed me your ignorance.:furious:


 only 2 years? :whistling2:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

gotmud said:


> Haha you crack me up PT LOL


whats that PT is selling crack


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

:drink: this is better than the super bowl this year !!


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

OMG world taping championships. Where and when are they. i better start training. You know eating raw eggs and getting up early in the morning to run . Going to start taking HGH and testosterone. Moore if theres a doubles compitition i would be willing to be your partner. I just hope theres not a piss test.:whistling2:


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

moore said:


> only 2 years? :whistling2:


 
2 years was all I could take.:laughing::laughing::laughing: I knew it was either go to work for a machine tool crew or get a REAL job!


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Muddauber said:


> 2 years was all I could take.:laughing::laughing::laughing: I knew it was either go to work for a machine tool crew or get a REAL job!


 
aww you cant work alone


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Good lord...this argument _again?

_Here's the true test.......

Someone comes up and offers you a brand new set of auto tools. Do you accept them and start using them, or do you decline because your quality of work is so good and fast whistling2 taping by hand?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the real reason most guys tape by hand is because they can't afford to buy a set of tools. Why is this? Because they spend so much time taping by hand that they can barely make ends meet? (And yes....I'm a hand taper......I just choose to spend my money on other kinds of tools and I choose jobs where taping by hand is the only real option.......if I choose taping jobs at all)


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## DrywallerDustin (Mar 1, 2013)

Where are all these hand tapers living? I really want to move myself and my auto tools to somewhere where people only tape by hand....Sure would be money to be made.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Good lord...this argument _again?
> 
> _Here's the true test.......
> 
> ...


Or they could be just idiots or really stupid:yes:

Probably both:whistling2:

(not you slim, we know your one of the smarty pants on this site)


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Good lord...this argument _again?_
> 
> Here's the true test.......
> 
> ...


 
Dont they make houses out of straw in Montana:blink: 



lol just kidding. I am going to drink another beer now


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

DrywallerDustin said:


> Where are all these hand tapers living? I really want to move myself and my auto tools to somewhere where people only tape by hand....Sure would be money to be made.


 Are you that hard up for work that you need to move?


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## DrywallerDustin (Mar 1, 2013)

moore said:


> Are you that hard up for work that you need to move?


Nah, but always dreaming of easy money, somewhere that there's not so much illegal competition...Just something I've thought about when 
I did some work out your way, as well as other parts of the country.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

better by hand said:


> Put the race to the side, everyone around here would much rather finish behind a hand taper than a banjo or zook guy. Any thoughts?


My thoughts are that it doesn't sound like you have anyone in your area who's very good at properly running a banjo or bazooka.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Or they could be just idiots or really stupid
> 
> Probably both
> 
> (not you slim, we know your one of the smarty pants on this site)


We've covered this one before....I AM one of the stupid idiots, but I'm also really good at _pretending_ to be smart:yes:



icerock drywall said:


> Dont they make houses out of straw in Montana:blink:
> 
> 
> 
> lol just kidding. I am going to drink another beer now


Well, we do have a fair sized straw-bale home market, but nothing like those folks over there in Nebraska

Personally, I go hot and cold about getting a set of tools....mostly when the bigger houses come along. But then I remember that I really only like doing the specialty stuff (artisan style walls, etc) and prefer carpentry work these days. We'll see what this Fresco Harmony does for my business when I have a few minutes to mess with it. I'm also exploring portland cement based products for other applications. Taping tools kind of mean that I have to be a taper


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## DrywallerDustin (Mar 1, 2013)

SlimPickins said:


> We've covered this one before....I AM one of the stupid idiots, but I'm also really good at _pretending_ to be smart:yes:
> 
> Well, we do have a fair sized straw-bale home market, but nothing like those folks over there in Nebraska
> 
> Personally, I go hot and cold about getting a set of tools....mostly when the bigger houses come along. But then I remember that I really only like doing the specialty stuff (artisan style walls, etc) and prefer carpentry work these days. We'll see what this Fresco Harmony does for my business when I have a few minutes to mess with it. I'm also exploring portland cement based products for other applications. Taping tools kind of mean that I have to be a taper



It doesn't mean You have to be a taper, it just means when the opportunity comes along, you'll be a more efficient one.
I usually frame, hang and tape my own work, so the time I spend actually using my taping set is not what it was at times when I was strictly a finisher, It's still the first thing I bought when I got my license, and was worth every penny, of course I didn't buy new and didn't get the whole set at once.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

DrywallerDustin said:


> It doesn't mean You have to be a taper, it just means when the opportunity comes along, you'll be a more efficient one.
> I usually frame, hang and tape my own work, so the time I spend actually using my taping set is not what it was at times when I was strictly a finisher, It's still the first thing I bought when I got my license, and was worth every penny, of course I didn't buy new and didn't get the whole set at once.


 
thats not the way you do it!!! and thats all I need to say:blink:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*auto's*



SlimPickins said:


> Good lord...this argument _again?_
> 
> Here's the true test.......
> 
> ...


 first time the autos were thrown on me was in big sky- oh i could push a roller and plow(oh sp is montana, so its called a glaizer) learned the boxes in two hours, what a treat----the sky has changed and i feel worse for it. i have changed also and i feel worse for that also. too much lieing in my package-the worse fault of all, is god less important the alcohal?-NO. name of god in vai-Hell no. steal- no way:whistling2: STEAL the truth or steal a life or steal someones honesty, well i have done it all. 4 or 5 more- did those to. when you are bidding a job- and the clarity is not apparent from the check or cash giver-ITS A SCAM and you will pay for it withj the loss of the love of your ARTISTRY. so balls up and dont buy your own cadaver. i have no idea what i just typed. that damb ca-na-da whiskey:blink:whooo-that 2$Chinook:thumbup:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

moore said:


> Oh!!!! You want some too!!!!  Bring it on Idaho!!!


 Are you biting off more than you can chew:yes:??? Trust me when I say this YOU WOULDNT EVEN COME CLOSE I mean that in a nice way


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

chris said:


> Are you biting off more than you can chew??? Trust me when I say this YOU WOULDNT EVEN COME CLOSE I mean that in a nice way





2buckcanuck said:


> Or they could be just idiots or really stupid:yes:
> 
> Probably both
> 
> (not you slim, we know your one of the smarty pants on this site)


Yeah I know!.....:jester:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Square Foot said:


> "Why is it that closed minds dont come with closed mouths????"
> 
> Love it!!! Lol



sounds like what cazna would say :whistling2:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

cazna said:


> Why is it that closed minds dont come with closed mouths????
> 
> 12 years of hand taping, 4 years of tool taping, I know the answer as well.


The truth arises
Sir cazna


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

What happened to "BETTER BY HAND"? :blink:

Did you guys hurt his feelings or something? :whistling2:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

I think he was just a bored member trying to stir things up:whistling2: He doesnt like to be called a mesh user:jester:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Muddauber said:


> What happened to "BETTER BY HAND"? :blink:
> 
> Did you guys hurt his feelings or something? :whistling2:


Basecoat by hand fill and float With hot mud. Pull all angles with white bag one coat. Topcoat all flats With 12 inch Columbian box. Then I would be comfortable at $.70 a foot.


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## Toolnut (Aug 17, 2012)

Carry on just got a beer and a comfy chair.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> I think he was just a bored member trying to stir things up:whistling2: He doesnt like to be called a mesh user:jester:


I think he would of been more pissed about being called a French Canadian.


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## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

Muddauber said:


> What happened to "BETTER BY HAND"? :blink:
> 
> Did you guys hurt his feelings or something? :whistling2:


Maybe he is still hand taping his job out and hasn't had any free time. Or he is out shopping for machine tools after realizing he took longer then the banjo.


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## Mudderpro (Mar 14, 2013)

Or maybe he is like me and have a life outside drywall . 

Not like some of you looser that are online a saturday night talking about automatic tools .......


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Mudderpro said:


> Or maybe he is like me and have a life outside drywall .
> 
> Not like some of you looser that are online a saturday night talking about automatic tools .......


Simply put ....


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

mudslingr said:


> Simply put ....


I might've said something like using what one does on Saturday nights as a 'benchmark' for whether one has a life or not seems a little sad, maybe a bit pathetic, but your way works, too.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Simply put ....





JustMe said:


> I might've said something like using what one does on Saturday nights as a 'benchmark' for whether one has a life or not seems a little sad, maybe a bit pathetic, but your way works, too.


 He's single...:yes: Life will catch him!


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

mudslingr said:


> simply put ....


+1 :d


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> He's single...:yes: Life will catch him!


Married or not, I could've kept on going out any time I cared to. But percentage wise, such as Saturday nights often seem to be populated with an over abundance of stupid/stunned people, and stupid goings on. At least around here. So I don't usually bother. I leave it to the 'cool' ones.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Married or not, I could've kept on going out any time I cared to. But percentage wise, such as Saturday nights often seem to be populated with an over abundance of stupid/stunned people, and stupid goings on. At least around here. So I don't usually bother. I leave it to the 'cool' ones.


 Aint that the truth....http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ing-Pot-Outside-Police-Station-200314651.html


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> Aint that the truth....http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ing-Pot-Outside-Police-Station-200314651.html


Should invite them here for a rousing Saturday night discussion of sheep, hockey, infinity, quantum physics, religion, automatic tools.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Should invite them here for a rousing Saturday night discussion of sheep, hockey, infinity, quantum physics, religion, automatic tools.


 HEY!! They don't know what there missing!!:whistling2:


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

Mudderpro said:


> Or maybe he is like me and have a life outside drywall .
> 
> Not like some of you looser that are online a saturday night talking about automatic tools .......



So talking on here on Saturdays is what makes me a looser ?
Boarding for the last 6 years, moving to a new province just to keep a check comming in, and getting so drunk with a bunch of dumwaller's comming home pissing all over my fireplace falling down then pissing all overmyself was fine. Thats kool I'll tell the wife she was wrong i wasn't a looser tell now.:thumbup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

gordie said:


> So talking on here on Saturdays is what makes me a looser ?
> Boarding for the last 6 years, moving to a new province just to keep a check comming in, and getting so drunk with a bunch of dumwaller's comming home pissing all over my fireplace falling down then pissing all overmyself was fine. Thats kool I'll tell the wife she was wrong i wasn't a looser tell now.:thumbup:


If talking on here instead of drinking makes me a loser, then I don't want to be a winner. **** drinking.


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> If talking on here instead of drinking makes me a loser, then I don't want to be a winner. **** drinking.


 I have to agree Slim drinkin spending my check at bars and acting like an idiot was how i started out drywallin.I don't miss thoughs days at all I still have a beer after work and a couple smokes lol .Anyway I'd rather hang with you loser's than any of the goofs I used to party drink sniff and whatever with. workin folk are just better people


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## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

I agree with both Gordie and Slim I would rather sit at home have couple beer then go out and " have a life" that way when I go into work I don't feel like crap..... Mudderpro started the thread is auto tools really the best just another guy trying to convince himself that he is faster then machines.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> If talking on here instead of drinking makes me a loser, then I don't want to be a winner. **** drinking.


Before I'd even begin to consider accepting the label of 'loser' from someone, they'd have to have my respect in that they're worthwhile enough listening to about such things. That list of such people for me is a Very short list. (Actually, I think it's a blank sheet right now.)



moore said:


> HEY!! They don't know what there missing!!:whistling2:


Yeah. And although one isn't supposed to judge books by their covers (a cliché that I at times question), but looking at that bunch, maybe we should keep in that way.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

better by hand said:


> I concede that auto tools are great for production and I never in my wildest dreams think i could be faster than them. You guys kick butt. However as far as QUALITY you can't beat a hawk and trowel.


 ahhhhh i'm not so sure of that statement. I run knife /pan, hawk/trowel, and the tools. I have met and worked with guys that can do magic with an auto. I've met guys that do magic with hand finish. and vice versa. But the bottom line for speed and fill----auto's every time-period, and thats 3 to 1. one on one. on the flush to level 4- who's to say ? if you roll or shoot a final coat, then maybe the last part is in question. Auto's are the bright shineing star in the blackness of space.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*loser*

it seems as though the term looser has a psycological effect on folks, includeing me. but the truth is, almost noone can follow this chat. Because we are the it. hardley ever is a term described here, because we are so far beyond that. (butt joint, dry tape, recess,float,skim, metal, blah blah blah )- we are the it, thats why i dont give up sat- nights------------- i gain sat nights on this site. this is where the best in the WORLD hang out, why go to a worse bar ?


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