# Bill 119 your thoughts



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

I don't start to many topics on here but for all those that know what bill 119 is, lets hear it out.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> I don't start to many topics on here but for all those that know what bill 119 is, lets hear it out.


it would not affect many on this site, since it is a Ontario bill

But it's a bill saying all the sub-trades must now pay around 10% in comp (non-union guys), and your private insurance becomes useless.

Just a commie cash grab

odd, was getting hair cut today, and barber told me he paid something like 40 bucks for a 3 year license. Now the "G" men want him to pay 120 for one year.

They are nickle and dimeing us to death.

My solution, quit voting, show them were not listening to their BS anymore. Don't matter who you vote for anyhow, their all the same:blink:


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Pretty sure weve had this out west for a long time. Every worker here needs to have mandatory coverage by the workers compensation board WCB. This has all been built into our pricing now and most regular subs and employees are just covered under their employers account. I could see why this would be a problem though if just getting introduced, basically means your prices will go down to adapt or you will just be way more out yourself. Hope I'm talking about the same thing lol


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Deezal said:


> Pretty sure weve had this out west for a long time. Every worker here needs to have mandatory coverage by the workers compensation board WCB. This has all been built into our pricing now and most regular subs and employees are just covered under their employers account. I could see why this would be a problem though if just getting introduced, basically means your prices will go down to adapt or you will just be way more out yourself. Hope I'm talking about the same thing lol


You have what we use to have, I'm not a expert on the subject, since it don't affect me personally (unless I price on the side:whistling2

This will affect you more at tax time, the amount you make per year affects your rate,,, so,,,,, more you make, more you pay type thing:furious:

Price of gas and stupid wind turbines are already killing us in this stupid province


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

As far as I know it's the same here, more you make the more you pay per year at a flat rate and then it's a percantage on what you pay out to subs think it can be as low as 3percent depending on if you are doing commercial/residential and a variety of other factors. Lots of guys get there own numbers just because alot of drywall contractors will throw you a couple more cents to be off of there account (less paperwork and chance of rate crippling accidents etc) and really I don't think it's that much per year, pretty sure 600$ a year comes to mind as a number my buddy told me he paid once, he has a ltd. company set up though so it be may pay more for that reason. I'm not well versed on this subject either lol


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Well everyone of us working in new construction in Ontario are subject to pay, even self employed or incorporated company owners pays the premium on gross income when they never had to before. 

I know most of the long time workers in construction working in Ontario where considered exempt from paying and now have to pay. 

This forces this self employed and incorporated companies to increase there rates and I believe that it this more then a money grab from the WSIB but pressure from government to take 13% of the increase in rates that have to be charged to cover this additional cost. 

Also this is a way to support the inflated housing prices from falling to fast and forcing new home buyers extra cost to cushion the collapse in the housing industry. 

Watch and see what happens with this. I think we will see lower wages in the long term to keep the industry alive or people will be forced out because sales will slow even more. Let see what happens from here.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Deezal said:


> As far as I know it's the same here, more you make the more you pay per year at a flat rate and then it's a percantage on what you pay out to subs think it can be as low as 3percent depending on if you are doing commercial/residential and a variety of other factors. Lots of guys get there own numbers just because alot of drywall contractors will throw you a couple more cents to be off of there account (less paperwork and chance of rate crippling accidents etc) and really I don't think it's that much per year, pretty sure 600$ a year comes to mind as a number my buddy told me he paid once, he has a ltd. company set up though so it be may pay more for that reason. I'm not well versed on this subject either lol


Again no expert, but 10% of your pay is a lot, what did your buddy make last year, must be only $6,000 if he only paid 600 bucks:blink:

It's just another tax grab, for something that don't give you 24/7 coverage like private Ins. could.

Then factor in, the average Joe makes $20 or less at a factory job, they can't afford to hire us no more. Most small time carpenters, plumbers, electricians etc are over 60 bucks per hour (rough figure) take away HST 13%, comp 10%, income tax 35%, they might make 30 bucks a hour. Were not even talking tools, gas, etc,,,, yeah I know there's write offs etc, but most guys I talk to now, owe a lot to the "G" man:blink:

There's just too much stuff these days, Where the government just adds fee's, and think it's not a big deal. Just pass your problems on to the next guy, like they like to do:furious:


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

2buckcanuck said:


> Again no expert, but 10% of your pay is a lot, what did your buddy make last year, must be only $6,000 if he only paid 600 bucks:blink:
> 
> It's just another tax grab, for something that don't give you 24/7 coverage like private Ins. could.
> 
> ...


Well as I had said it can be as low as 3 percent, that's not really that much better (pnly18000)but for your own personal coverage alone it ends up being alot cheaper, like you say they get there cash grab through the percantages your paying out.to subs.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> Well everyone of us working in new construction in Ontario are subject to pay, even self employed or incorporated company owners pays the premium on gross income when they never had to before.
> 
> I know most of the long time workers in construction working in Ontario where considered exempt from paying and now have to pay.
> 
> ...


yeah, that's what I was trying to say in my post:whistling2:

Not sure of your age Mudstar, but I see another bad trend also. When I first got into this trade, a lot of home buyers were factory workers (mostly auto workers), Now the trend is the highly paid civil servants, teacher, cops, firemen etc....

Second scary trend is the teachers or firemen being the worker, or even worse, the builder b/c they have so much time to kill.

Just got into a heated debate last week with a fireman who was a tile guy. Yeah he has a right to have a second job, but at the same time it is not fair:blink:

Ontario has become a private sector vs Government worker battle ground,,,, and their winning


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

I was just reading up on all this 2buck, you are exactly right and it's the same in be here, govt employees with little extra training or schooling than high school makeing over a hundred grand a year and getting up to a couple months a year in paid holidays. Kinda makes you wonder


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Deezal said:


> Well as I had said it can be as low as 3 percent, that's not really that much better (pnly18000)but for your own personal coverage alone it ends up being alot cheaper, like you say they get there cash grab through the percantages your paying out.to subs.


That's one of the bitch things I hear, no more private coverage accepted.

Private coverage was 24/7, hurt yourself at home or work you were covered. comp only covers you at work. Plus private insurance was 100% write off.

So I hear, not trying to argue with you


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Hey man by all means, I'm not trying to argue with you either here. You sound like a smart, well versed cat and I'm enjoying the convo :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Deezal said:


> I was just reading up on all this 2buck, you are exactly right and it's the same in be here, govt employees with little extra training or schooling than high school makeing over a hundred grand a year and getting up to a couple months a year in paid holidays. Kinda makes you wonder


We have a thing called the "sunshine list" comes out once a year, lets you know what public servants make over $100,000 a year.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/28/ontarios-sunshine-list-grows-by-11

A person driving a bus makes more than me now:furious:,,, heard on the radio there were five parking ticket guys in Toronto, who made over $100,000.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Deezal said:


> Hey man by all means, I'm not trying to argue with you either here. You sound like a smart, well versed cat and I'm enjoying the convo :thumbsup:


Well to be honest:whistling2:

All our DWC's went union a few years back, so I called our Union rep, and asked if we were affected, and he was like "NO",,, so I was like "COOL":thumbsup:

But the same day, a garage door installer was fuming, and was wiping his tools around, so I asked what his problem was,,, he was saying the new comp rules, the company he was subbing from, were saying it was his problem ,not theirs, so he was saying he was through:blink:
Were only 4 months into this new law,,, so who knows, there could be a lot more guys out there like him,,,,, time will tell


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Parking ticket guy!!!!!!! Now there's an essential service. Guess he pays his own wage off the back of the working man right lol


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well to be honest:whistling2:
> 
> All our DWC's went union a few years back, so I called our Union rep, and asked if we were affected, and he was like "NO",,, so I was like "COOL":thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Your DWC must fork out your WSIB premiums not like a lot of guys I know in construction they are self employed or independent companies working for the builder which have to pay there own WSIB and is mandatory. The only exclusion is if you work for the home owner direct then you don't have to pay. That means we all should work for the home owners directly and all the DWC should be is the sales guy for the workers and we should pay them a % to set it up. That way its fair to the home owner and fair to the worker instead of the generals getting greedy taking all the money and not willing to pay for the WSIB premiums.


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

This is kinda what I was saying above, over here everyone has to have it as well it's just all been built into wages and pricing now. Only ever done work for a few companies that will charge you there percantage of pay out which is usually 7percent and up. Smaller companies can get as low as 3 percent because if no accident record and smaller operation etc.


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

I think we have what you have know, pretty sure. We don't have homeowner exception though that would be one of those especially need to have it then.


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