# Screw pops



## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

Cant figure out why the mud is popping off our screws. Perfect little tab pops right off the head. Nobody wants to hear the "wood drying" excuse. Some houses its all over and some houses just a few. Always had a few on warranty work but now it seems they are there 2 weeks after the job is done. Thought maybe had bad pallet with oil on screws but still having the problem. Talked to a guy from another large company and he said they're having same problem. Its happened in every situation. big houses,little houses,with heat, no heat, summer, winter, 2 story, ranch ,with glue,no glue,dont do enough metal stud work to know if its a problem for them too. If not it makes me think it is the wood. Not every job does it but its too much already. This happens with different crews,different rock,. Dont ever see it on ceilings,if i do its usually in the basement and theyre popped from the floor guys dropping their hardwood bundles.Any one else having this?


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

out of curiosity, when you dig the pops out of the wall, do they show a perfect imprint of the screw face? that would at least prove they were fully filled in the first place


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

yes the perfect imprint is on it. Tried having the guys do 1st coat with ap even, the screws get 3 coats. weird


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

They are not popping due to depth? I have been running in to that problem, trying to refine my rocker, I have gone through a few crews in the last year and I'm tired of it. I just want to "fix" this crew and keep them busy! They either have their guns set too deep, or were running into alot more framing issues, where the one stud is set back farther and the rock pulls away. Usually we find them when final sanding unfortunately, because the sander moves the rock, which "pops" the mud. Glue definitely cuts down on that! Use it everywhere there isn't vapor barrier!


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Are the pops on exterior walls only, or are they anywhere?


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## caseysbuilding (Mar 19, 2009)

It sounds like you did everything right.


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

its on exterior and interior,


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Are you using a spotter or doing them by hand? We gave up on the spotter several years ago, but not for this reason.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

The rocker that hangs for me says that when the glue drys. It sucks the board up. And it make the screws pop.


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

We get alot of screw pops up here as well . When I run my gun I have to constantly keep adjusting it so the screws are set properly . Just when I think I got it the next screws are in too deep or not in deep enough. Even when banging in the misses it s like the board is just turns to mush and almost needs to be taped . I think part of the problem is the board is stalked into a not properly heated building and collects moisture softening it . Hanging becomes a pain then after the builders finally put the heat on everything dries out and you have lots of screw pops.


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

Im gonna contact the supplier and have a guy come out and check out a house thats popped. I know it probably wont help but i think its a big enough problem for us that they should atleast have it on their corporate minds. How do you guys fix your pops? Ive been just scraping the tab off, hittin it once with back of knife and spotting it. Did a warranty call yesterday and used 20 minute 1st coat and hit it again with regular mud.Still have 2 go back and sand,B.S. Shouldnt have to do this.Its almost the one time i feel for these homeowners. If i bought a 500,000 house and 2 monthes later i have 500 screw pops i would be pissed.If i was the painter i would be pissed. Most of these painters dont even charge us to repaint, i think they feel our pain.


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

You have to push on the rock around it, and if the screw stays static, and the rock moves, you have to put another screw beside it AND pull it out. Otherwise it will pop again as soon as something hits the wall, or any jolt nearby. The damp rock explanation sounds pretty viable, I have had a few but been on VERY bad framing jobs also! I don't know if usg has had as many problems, I've been dealing with homeowners and "less expensive" rock.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

that sux. It could be a combination of soft rock and bowed framing. usually when that happens to me it's because of the framing. I always check the board while i'm going or after as I walk by. Wood framing sucks.


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## Titan Drywall (Feb 16, 2010)

I think it has something to do with the glue and wet wood. I have had the same problem, and it has been getting worse over the past 5 years. One house had all the screws rise up. It was the first house for the builder and it was the last. I came in and fixed every screw. It seams to happen more in the winter. Now I can almost tell when a house is going to have that problem. When it has been raining and cold for long periods of time, and house got really wet when framing. I also feel like the glue has the same effect as wet wood. I feel that too much glue does not allow the board to pull tight to the stud. In the cold the glue is much stiffer and does not allow the screw gun to pull the rock down tight. You have to push on it really hard to get the rock to pull flush. The clutch on the screw gun thinks the board is pulled down, but it is not. There is a little gap between the rock and stud. I feel like it take 1-4 weeks for the glue to fully cure, depending on conditions like temp and moisture in the wood. I always thought that a contact adhesive would be better than and glob of glue. I have this problem no matter what hanger I use, and that has been 6 in the past 7 years. I think its a problem with our materials not how we are installing it. I dont have a degree in building science, just my 2 cents...I feel your pain FYI the funny thing is the screws are never lose, just pushed up enough for light to catch them. Just have to scrape them down and spot again.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

You guys gotta try foam adhesive. I use EnerFoam made by Dow. 1 can costs $17 and it will do almost an entire house. No need to screw the field, so no more pops. The adhesive maintains it's elasticity so it will allow for shifting/drying out of the structure. The foam gun makes perfect continuous beads- just squeeze the trigger.

Good luck,
D'S


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## Titan Drywall (Feb 16, 2010)

D, yea the foam is a good idea, and in the long run cheaper. One can=9 glue tubes. I have tried the foam, but this is the problem. When you have a crew the guns dont last long. I have used the free gun that comes with 5 cases of foam and dropped 2 grand on the 250.00 guns. In about a month they are all gummed up and dont work. I dont think they are very well adapted to the drywall industry. Dust mixes with the foam on the thread head and you have problems. What we need is a disposable gun, good for only one day. just a plastic trigger with a straw. I have called DOW and talked to them about it, but it didnt light any fires. I guess there is too much money in selling the guns. Foam is the best, but it need to be for the real word. Also, you have to screw down just as fast as normal glue..it sets up fast in 90 degree temps.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

I bought the high end Pageris gun, $150, and all you need to do is make sure at the end of the day you run it for 10 seconds to clear any snots in it then just close the valve. I've kept mine like that for over thirty days and it started fine. True that it only takes leaving it one time and it's done. Some suppliers are now offering "gun clubs" where they replace a clogged gun for a small fee. It's definitely the ***** in the armor.

D'S


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

Wow spray foam? That's awesome! I'm going to check that out, but we don't screw the fields here when we glue. (and I'm not having the problems) That would make sense to me, especially if the glue is cold and doesn't want to squish down immediately! Try not screwing the field when you are using glue! It works. I occasionally bang on walls here and there and never find a loose one.


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## Titan Drywall (Feb 16, 2010)

Wallers, If I didn't screw and glue the builders in this area would $hit-a-brick. Also, the life of drywall glue is about 30 years. Drywall glue in rubber based, and over time it will crystallize and loose its bond. I hope you are screwing lids..


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## compute (Jun 11, 2008)

Back to the screw pops, after the drywall is hung but before taping is done are you maintaining a constant temperature? There's a lot of movement occurs when you have
drastic changes. Also, are you experiencing the same problem with different brands of
drywall? We have had runs of drywall that paper doesn't adhere to gypsum very well.


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

Titan Drywall said:


> Wallers, If I didn't screw and glue the builders in this area would $hit-a-brick. Also, the life of drywall glue is about 30 years. Drywall glue in rubber based, and over time it will crystallize and loose its bond. I hope you are screwing lids..


Absolutely! We don't even glue lid, just screw. Field and all. How about keeping the glue at home in your warm house, and just bring what you're gonna use in a day? I told my rockers today to do just that.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Jmo, from experience, seeing rock demo'd from 30-40 year od work, have never seen glue fail. Wis I had a nickel for every old glued stud I tried to scrape prior to rehanging. I think what you might be experiencing is heat transfer. My home is 12 years old. Friend of mine, second generation rocker, did mine. Every winter I start seeing screw heads. I wind up repainting a room or two every year and fix 2-3 per room. But I do not see these screws in warm weather.


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## Titan Drywall (Feb 16, 2010)

I have seen glue fail. There was a drywall outfit in this area about 40 yrs ago, and they would glue and screw then remove all the screws the next day. I get 2 or 3 calls a year of homes in that have drywall falling or about to fall off ceilings. When you demo the ceiling you can see the screw hole but no screw. The glue is supper hard and in some places crystallized. Maybe glue has improved in the past 40 yrs. I agree keep the glue warm. I tell my hanger to warm it in front of their heater, but not too close. I have all materials delivered. That would be a pain in the ass to run glue out to every house. I see my projects 3 times. measure, touch-up, pick up check, and still drive over 1k in a week


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

thanks for all the replys to thread,wondering if anyone that works with metal stud ever has this problem? again its not like its even really popping. the mud is tabbing off the screw head.I know what rock does when the screw is set to deep and it breaks the paper, its not that. there has to be a reason for this happening and it all seems to point at the wood but no one wants to hear that. Imagine a builder wanting a house rocked and you go out with the meter and test the wood and it comes back above 13percent moisture. So you call em up and say hey, your 2bys are too wet and i have to wait 6 weeks before i can hang it. They would get someone else in a heartbeat. Soooooooooooooo dont know. :thumbup:


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## pollypainter (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm a big fan of Structural Foam. Have you tried it?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

taper71 said:


> We get alot of screw pops up here as well . When I run my gun I have to constantly keep adjusting it so the screws are set properly . Just when I think I got it the next screws are in too deep or not in deep enough. Even when banging in the misses it s like the board is just turns to mush and almost needs to be taped . I think part of the problem is the board is stalked into a not properly heated building and collects moisture softening it . Hanging becomes a pain then after the builders finally put the heat on everything dries out and you have lots of screw pops.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

What size screws are you guys having trouble with. I like the 1/4 course scorpions with 1/2' rock. 1 and 5/8 go to deep into wood.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Boco I'm getting the feeling ,that If you were to forget half of what you know
about drywall ,,,, You would still know more than us...... :notworthy:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

moore said:


> Boco I'm getting the feeling ,that If you were to forget half of what you know
> about drywall ,,,, You would still know more than us...... :notworthy:


 



 Ya I sing this song while I tape. Sweep the leg Jhonny


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

boco said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBktYJsJq-E Ya I sing this song while I tape. Sweep the leg Jhonny


HEY ,,, maybe AL could teach you something ? :thumbup:aay


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I quit


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## ding (Jan 19, 2011)

boco said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBktYJsJq-E Ya I sing this song while I tape. Sweep the leg Jhonny


Thanks. Now you got me watching karate kid scenes on you tube


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Cmon you gotta admit thats a classic and funny as hell too.


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## ding (Jan 19, 2011)

started training in martial arts when I was 10 just after this movie came out. life got in the way havent done anything in the last 12 years. kinda miss it but life is still in the way. still watching clips on you tube


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

one of my favorite movies:thumbup:Mr Miyagis training could help with drywall training


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

ding said:


> started training in martial arts when I was 10 just after this movie came out. life got in the way havent done anything in the last 12 years. kinda miss it but life is still in the way. still watching clips on you tube


 You bet. Also any noob I work with is called grasshopper.:thumbup: If I like them. Tf not T.I.T. Taper in training


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

sand the wall


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## ding (Jan 19, 2011)

some how the new guy always knows wax on Wax Off :yes:


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## JohnnyMudd (Oct 22, 2009)

If the mud is pushing out of the screw head with a perfect imprint, the screws you are getting might still have a thin film of oil on them from the factory. We hung a box of metal that had oil left on it and the mud would not stick once it was dry. But it stuck to the wall board fine. We chipped it all off, wet sponged all the metal down and re-coated and no more problems. It sounds stupid but try hosing down your screws with water on the next job and see what happens. If you do call out your supplier tell him you have oil on your screws and you want reimbursed.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Big Bear is Awesome  spent summers there as a kid.All these screwpop probs sound like wet lumber. Building house too fast,cheapasth spec building. :furious: I do 90percent comm. dont have this problem


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Boco's last job... All screws ,, no nails!:lol::lol::notworthy:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

moore said:


> Boco's last job... All screws ,, no nails!:lol::lol::notworthy:


 :thumbup::thumbup: Nice. I needed a good laugh.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Been a rough week with all the flooding here on lake champlain. My crawl space was full this morning as my sump pump just wasnt doing it anymore. I hope they dont cut my power. If so its gonna be a nightmare Pretty much evrything is a mess. Most of my neighbors went to higher ground. People kayaking up and down my road. Lot of damage. Not good.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

boco said:


> Been a rough week with all the flooding here on lake champlain. My crawl space was full this morning as my sump pump just wasnt doing it anymore. I hope they dont cut my power. If so its gonna be a nightmare Pretty much evrything is a mess. Most of my neighbors went to higher ground. People kayaking up and down my road. Lot of damage. Not good.


man ,,, dude sorry to hear it,, I was just poking at ya ,,, hope your family are ok .. did not know . take care!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Holy, I googled to see what was happening where you live boco, and came across this 



 you better get a gun

Must suck going through that, just trying to give you a little chuckle and relieve some tension , you must be very stressed out right now, and worrying a lot too, just hang in there and good luck too:thumbsup:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Thanks guys for the support. And yes I have been on the lookout for champy. lol. I guess are canadien neighbors will be giving us a break by opening the locks on the st lawrence seaway to help the water recede. :thumbup:l


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## Golddry (Jul 18, 2012)

*screw pops*

These screw pops happen on walls and ceilings, old and new wood. We have been doing the same thing for 25 years. It's not the temp or weather. Just went back scraped and spotted a kitchen ceiling we did 2 weeks ago all field screws. The board is tight to framing and this house is over 20 years old, so it's not wet wood. The mud just pulls away from the screw, when you crape it its full and flush with the rock. This seems to be it is happening a lot more. Never had this issue before...of course you get a few do to framing or wood drying out, but this is different!!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Golddry said:


> These screw pops happen on walls and ceilings, old and new wood. We have been doing the same thing for 25 years. It's not the temp or weather. Just went back scraped and spotted a kitchen ceiling we did 2 weeks ago all field screws. The board is tight to framing and this house is over 20 years old, so it's not wet wood. The mud just pulls away from the screw, when you crape it its full and flush with the rock. This seems to be it is happening a lot more. Never had this issue before...of course you get a few do to framing or wood drying out, but this is different!!


Was the board 100% dry? 

Did the painters spray?

Did you spot the screws with hot-mud ...That's a no..no...!

was there propane heat ?

Screw pops are a moisture problem ...or ....Is it greasy screws???

Phosphate coating?? ...Look at how they shine ... drywall compound ..a/p or hot-mud will only stick to a rough surface .

Hot mud will not stick to a shiney 90 so....:blink: 

I BLAME SCREW POPS ON THE PAINTERS !!!!:yes:
GOTTA PUT THE BLAME ON SOMEONE:whistling2:


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