# Level 5 Primer-Surfacer from CGC



## Board'em (Oct 11, 2010)

I am starting a wallpaper repair job for a painter friend of mine, (which I asked for help on how to repair earlier). He has told me of a product from CGC called "Tuff Hide". Has anyone used it? Will this replace the skim coat reqired for my walls? Is this snake oil? Im adding the link below.

http://www.cgcinc.com/media/37856/th_primer_broch.pdf

Thanks.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Board'em said:


> I am starting a wallpaper repair job for a painter friend of mine, (which I asked for help on how to repair earlier). He has told me of a product from CGC called "Tuff Hide". Has anyone used it? Will this replace the skim coat reqired for my walls? Is this snake oil? Im adding the link below.
> 
> http://www.cgcinc.com/media/37856/th_primer_broch.pdf
> 
> Thanks.


 Tuff Hide is a good product. It still won't allow you to skip the skim coat. Its a level5 product, not a "coat" of mud


----------



## Board'em (Oct 11, 2010)

Would it be a good finisher after I skim the walls?


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Board'em said:


> Would it be a good finisher after I skim the walls?


 Its a really good level5 finish. Not sure what your asking, but if after you finish and sand your job, and you want a level5 product to apply to the walls, yes Tuff Hide is a great product. It is applied with a a sprayer, so I am assume you are going to spray it on. You will need to sand again after the product is sprayed.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Board'em said:


> Would it be a good finisher after I skim the walls?


What's the final finish going to be? Smooth? Textured? What are the lighting conditions like? What kind of paint sheen?

A level 5 primer is only needed for smooth walls in which semi-gloss (or shinier) is going to be used, or in which the lighting conditions are....how you say......unfriendly to the finisher. Your painter buddy should be able to make level 4 work just fine. That's why God made 1-1/4 nap rollers!:jester:


----------



## Board'em (Oct 11, 2010)

HAHA!

Thanks, I just needed some amo not to use this. I had never heard of it and he wanted to spray it on instead of me skimming the walls.

Keep your stick on the ice!


----------



## igorson (Nov 10, 2010)

Board'em said:


> HAHA!
> 
> Thanks, I just needed some amo not to use this. I had never heard of it and he wanted to spray it on instead of me skimming the walls.
> 
> Keep your stick on the ice!


It is all about level 5 but if wall look bad and not like level 4 than make them look like level 4 and apply Tuff Hide after. Somebody says to sand it but it is not sand able after that primer.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> What's the final finish going to be? Smooth? Textured? What are the lighting conditions like? What kind of paint sheen?
> 
> A level 5 primer is only needed for smooth walls in which semi-gloss (or shinier) is going to be used, or in which the lighting conditions are....how you say......unfriendly to the finisher. Your painter buddy should be able to make level 4 work just fine. That's why God made 1-1/4 nap rollers!:jester:


doing my entire house in Level 5, there is a difference


----------



## BNW TAPING (Apr 8, 2014)

the cvc level5 sealer tuff hide is good but if you do touch ups afterwards the tough ups will flash 

some of the big houses we were doing last year the builder ended up getting the sykno mud shipped to ontario from the west coast and are touch ups didn't flash with that stuff 

level 4 then spray the level 5 sealer cross spray and back roll thats what you gotta do


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

BNW TAPING said:


> the cvc level5 sealer tuff hide is good but if you do touch ups afterwards the tough ups will flash
> 
> some of the big houses we were doing last year the builder ended up getting the sykno mud shipped to ontario from the west coast and are touch ups didn't flash with that stuff
> 
> level 4 then spray the level 5 sealer cross spray and back roll thats what you gotta do


I've never understood the system where you prime the walls and come back to touch up the drywall finish. The best system is to finish the drywall such that you turn it over to the painter when it is done. Paint it and call it good.


----------



## jantzenmoore (Sep 25, 2014)

I typically prime then touch up then prime again, the only reason I do that it is to insure the best quality. That's how I've made my money and the he painters love it so we always get calls backs for more work. 
If It ain't broke don't fix it, ya know!


----------



## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> I've never understood the system where you prime the walls and come back to touch up the drywall finish. The best system is to finish the drywall such that you turn it over to the painter when it is done. Paint it and call it good.


snivelers exist and painters want a 99% turnover, to make a long story short

I have only met few Tapers who can turn a 99% job on sanding, I think I run around 97%, I know what your sayng

finally got to a point where if the place got to cold I finish best I can and then its dwcs turn at her


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

When we are told to leave a job ready to paint, it is ready to paint. That is what having lots of 500 watt halogen lights is all about. It starts with a great finish job. impeccable touchup with lights that will burn an ant on the wall. Sand thoroughly. Sponge all dust and furred paper off the wall. Touchup again with lights. Sand and sponge the touchup. Check it one more time.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> When we are told to leave a job ready to paint, it is ready to paint. That is what having lots of 500 watt halogen lights is all about. It starts with a great finish job. impeccable touchup with lights that will burn an ant on the wall. Sand thoroughly. Sponge all dust and furred paper off the wall. Touchup again with lights. Sand and sponge the touchup. Check it one more time.


think you get the dwt termitenology prize of the year, if your mud aint dry you got 500 reasons why it should dry when you sand it


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

The lights is juss fer see'in, not fer dry'in.


----------



## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

endo_alley said:


> When we are told to leave a job ready to paint, it is ready to paint. That is what having lots of 500 watt halogen lights is all about. It starts with a great finish job. impeccable touchup with lights that will burn an ant on the wall. Sand thoroughly. Sponge all dust and furred paper off the wall. Touchup again with lights. Sand and sponge the touchup. Check it one more time.


Wow! Endo, you certainly are setting high standards for drywall quality. :thumbsup: You have inspired me to reach higher & try harder to deliver a better product. I'm an old-timer, so I remember when we would just sand without sponging, back in the times before the painters were spraying. Well, even old guys like me can learn new things & change our ways! Guess that's why I'm on Drywall Talk trying to learn all I can.


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

I guess this talk of leaving the job less than completely ready to paint gets kind of stuck in my craw because I keep running into finishers lately who tell me the same thing. That it is impossible to do a smooth finish. These guys often consider themselves hotshots. But when I see them work I notice that they rarely use a lights to check their work. They do not check to make sure the joints are as close to dead flat as is reasonably possible. They don't even keep their broad knives filed straight to use as flat joint "checkers". They do minimal cutting and prefilling of the walls prior to taping. So sure, if you don't have good fundamental habits, and a sound plan on how to finish the job, you are going to have problems. Where I live many of the guys learned the trade in the last 10-15 years when a finish for "skip trowel texture" or even just enough finish for diamond finish colored plaster, was the norm. Now most everything is level 5 or 4 for paint. And these same guys are lacking in the proper skills necessary. But they are not lacking in their hotshot egos. So I am not commenting on the skills of anyone here on this site. I am commenting on some of the finishers with whom I sometimes quarrel on the jobsites.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> I guess this talk of leaving the job less than completely ready to paint gets kind of stuck in my craw because I keep running into finishers lately who tell me the same thing. That it is impossible to do a smooth finish. These guys often consider themselves hotshots. But when I see them work I notice that they rarely use a lights to check their work. They do not check to make sure the joints are as close to dead flat as is reasonably possible. They don't even keep their broad knives filed straight to use as flat joint "checkers". They do minimal cutting and prefilling of the walls prior to taping. So sure, if you don't have good fundamental habits, and a sound plan on how to finish the job, you are going to have problems. Where I live many of the guys learned the trade in the last 10-15 years when a finish for "skip trowel texture" or even just enough finish for diamond finish colored plaster, was the norm. Now most everything is level 5 or 4 for paint. And these same guys are lacking in the proper skills necessary. But they are not lacking in their hotshot egos. So I am not commenting on the skills of anyone here on this site. I am commenting on some of the finishers with whom I sometimes quarrel on the jobsites.


why worry bout anyone else


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> why worry bout anyone else


Cuz they want me to take them in under my wing and give them money is why.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> Cuz they want me to take them in under my wing and give them money is why.


I quit that show, taught some Gumbies and they made a mess so no more


----------



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

We cut out mashed edges, loose paper on butts, and smashed board. I knife check when I start running the boxes to make sure everything is right. Knife check bead while coating. Plenty of ambient light while coating (usually) and pole sanding, and light check while sponge sanding. I even like using never-miss for touch-up, because it's cheap insurance that I don't miss sanding that touch-up

Is my final product prefect? By no means. But, I do turn over a good product. Also, I will re-coat something on sanding day if it needs it.


----------

