# when to charge footage



## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i have been wondering where do most guys draw the line between charging hourly and charging by the suare foot? i was thinking around 1000 sq ft or so depending on the job. what does every body else do?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> i have been wondering where do most guys draw the line between charging hourly and charging by the suare foot? i was thinking around 1000 sq ft or so depending on the job. what does every body else do?


Me it's 4000 squ/ft.
And I hardly ever charge hourly. From my experience clients/customers don't want to think they are paying you hourly.
Then they think you're going to screw them for hours or drag your feet.
I charge by the squ/ft if it's over 4000ft, If it's under I just give them a ball park figure.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

4000 sounds a lot safer. it would have to be stupid gravy for me to make ANYTHING worth while on 1000. i was just thinking cause everyone on here is the worlds bestest mos fastest drywllerers ever that anything over would sound silly:jester: i almost never do hourly for my drywall work. i'm more talking about some of my carpentry jobs.


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## machinemud (Jul 21, 2010)

If its just a bathroom , i will start at 2.05$ sq ft ( 12 sheet 4x8 =384 sq ft ) 384x 2,05$ = 787$. Its good for me and the customer . I never loose the job. Damm i must be in a good mood today to give my secret !


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

If it's only like a couple of rooms I keep my hours and then measure the square meterage when I'm finished, I charge which ever comes out highest, if I'm pricing a couple of rooms off a plan then I measure it to get an idea of size and then estimate how long it would take in a worst case scenario.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

machinemud said:


> If its just a bathroom , i will start at 2.05$ sq ft ( 12 sheet 4x8 =384 sq ft ) 384x 2,05$ = 787$. Its good for me and the customer . I never loose the job. Damm i must be in a good mood today to give my secret !


you must not be talking about supply/hang/finish. that sounds like a good price just to tape.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> you must not be talking about supply/hang/finish. that sounds like a good price just to tape.


Oh ya, I never supply anything.
Any prices or info I give out, keep in mind, I supply nothing!


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

is that some kind of deal you have worked out with the GC's you work for. i haven't hears of to many DC's that don't supply material. also i'm not trying to get any actual square foot prices. i know what i need to make money. i was mostly just wondering how many square feet before you can make any money at the going rate. PT, you said 4000 which was a little higher than i thought most guys would say but it sounds right for me too.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> is that some kind of deal you have worked out with the GC's you work for. i haven't hears of to many DC's that don't supply material. also i'm not trying to get any actual square foot prices. i know what i need to make money. i was mostly just wondering how many square feet before you can make any money at the going rate. PT, you said 4000 which was a little higher than i thought most guys would say but it sounds right for me too.


Ya, I dont know. I just remember hearing my old boss talking on the phone years and years ago and I over heard him saying something to the effect of "it's only worth charging by the foot if there's over 4000ft of board"
It stuck with me. I just used that as my guide since then.

As for the not supplying anything, that's just always what it's been for me. When I was 18 years old I started my business and the very first house I got, I supplied everything. The contractor paid me all my labour but then ripped me off for my material. I was out 4g's. When you're 18 years old, that hurts! Still hurts! lol.
So I've never supplied anything since! I don't care who you are. I'll give you a list, you make sure it's there when I show up.
If a contractor or home owner can't afford to buy my material it's a sure sign im not going to get paid either. 
That's just my rule. Never supply!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

There's nothing written in stone, But PT is right with around 4,000 sq ft for what ever your going rate is in your area. as the sq ft goes down past 4,000 sq ft, the rate goes up. Till it gets to a point where you half to do things by the hour or ball park figure things.

Or another way to look at things, 4,000 sq ft is the minimum you will sub contract for the going rate in your area. So for DWC or sub trades, 4,000 sq is the stop point for a pw rate IMO


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm pretty much the same way with material, anything more than stuff I have laying around my garage I ask for a material deposit. I don't like dealing with accounts at supply houses and it saves me from ever eating anything but labor.

As far as your original question, I use footages as a ballpark, and to check my "time in" estimate. If the two aren't even close, I tell the GC/homeowner/etc that I will work with them on the price and that my number is a worst case scenario. If the person turns out to be a headache, ta-da!.......No discount:yes: Bear in mind that most of my jobs are virtually impossible to provide a reasonable footage rate for. As in: "Yeah, I think this is going to run about $0.85/ft to hang and $3.25/ft. to finish" I get plenty of jobs where $0.85/ft to hang is losing money:laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya, I dont know. I just remember hearing my old boss talking on the phone years and years ago and I over heard him saying something to the effect of "it's only worth charging by the foot if there's over 4000ft of board"
> It stuck with me. I just used that as my guide since then.
> 
> As for the not supplying anything, that's just always what it's been for me. When I was 18 years old I started my business and the very first house I got, I supplied everything. The contractor paid me all my labour but then ripped me off for my material. I was out 4g's. When you're 18 years old, that hurts! Still hurts! lol.
> ...


But if you don't supply, you pay more in taxes don't you, don't you play the hst game.

And no supply, revenue Canada (IRS) will rape you if they audit you. They will try claiming your not a business. Their fairly crafty at sticking your head in a fence and screwing you...... trust me:yes:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> *There's nothing written in stone, But PT is right*


 2buck!?!? You didn't!? Did you just say I was right!? :blink:
I think i'm going to cry....
This is the happiest day of my life!
I would like to accept this achievement on behalf of all my friends on DrywallTalk! This is for you guys! You've all taught me so well!!
Thank you! Thank you! oh! And god and jesus! Thank you all!


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> But if you don't supply, you pay more in taxes don't you, don't you play the hst game.
> 
> And no supply, revenue Canada (IRS) will rape you if they audit you. They will try claiming your not a business. :yes:


I was going to say the same thing about the ATO (Australian Tax Ofice). If you supply nothing in there eyes you are a wage earner not a contractor. They also have a 70% rule. If you earn 70% or more of your total income from one source you are considered a wage earner.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm pretty much the same way with material, anything more than stuff I have laying around my garage I ask for a material deposit. I don't like dealing with accounts at supply houses and it saves me from ever eating anything but labor.
> 
> As far as your original question, I use footages as a ballpark, and to check my "time in" estimate. If the two aren't even close, I tell the GC/homeowner/etc that I will work with them on the price and that my number is a worst case scenario. If the person turns out to be a headache, ta-da!.......No discount:yes: Bear in mind that most of my jobs are virtually impossible to provide a reasonable footage rate for. As in: "Yeah, I think this is going to run about $0.85/ft to hang and $3.25/ft. to finish" I get plenty of jobs where $0.85/ft to hang is losing money:laughing:


 i hear you slim. i just did a 12 board job, all 8 footers. cost around $2800 when i was done.that's supply /hang/finish.it had 20 sticks of bead. i also skimmed out a few rooms of popcorn too, so i know all about those kind of jobs.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> I was going to say the same thing about the ATO (Australian Tax Ofice). If you supply nothing in there eyes you are a wage earner not a contractor. They also have a 70% rule. If you earn 70% or more of your total income from one source you are considered a wage earner.


Ya I know what you guys are saying. And just because I don't supply any material doesn't mean I don't expenses. Trucks, trailers, gas, fancy taping tools, scaffolding, ladders and benches don't buy themselves.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> i hear you slim. i just did a 12 board job, all 8 footers. cost around $2800 when i was done.that's supply /hang/finish.it had 20 sticks of bead. i also skimmed out a few rooms of popcorn too, so i know all about those kind of jobs.


12 8ft sheets with 20 sticks of bead!? Holy crap. Chopped up much!?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya I know what you guys are saying. And just because I don't supply any material doesn't mean I don't expenses. Trucks, trailers, gas, fancy taping tools, scaffolding, ladders and benches don't buy themselves.



That argument does not hold water over here. And you know what they say. There are only two sure things in life: Death & taxes.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i'm sure you work for enough people that it should not be a problem. i always thought the materials thing was a little loophole that someone invented so they could tell their empoyees to buy a box of screws and start calling them subs for tax reasons. that is my limited possibly misinformed idea of it.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

PrecisionTaping said:


> 12 8ft sheets with 20 sticks of bead!? Holy crap. Chopped up much!?


 lots of L edge and some weird little beaded returns around this silly decorative door. there was one gravy wall. three standups on each side. wwhhoooooo!!!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> That argument does not hold water over here. And you know what they say. There are only two sure things in life: Death & taxes.


Haha! That's right! If you're lucky, death before taxes :yes:



carpentaper said:


> lots of L edge and some weird little beaded returns around this silly decorative door. there was one gravy wall. three standups on each side. wwhhoooooo!!!


haha! Sweet gravy run!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya I know what you guys are saying. And just because I don't supply any material doesn't mean I don't expenses. Trucks, trailers, gas, fancy taping tools, scaffolding, ladders and benches don't buy themselves.


Trust me little Moose hunter, they will tell you thats all personal :yes:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> But if you don't supply, you pay more in taxes don't you, don't you play the hst game.
> 
> And no supply, revenue Canada (IRS) will rape you if they audit you. They will try claiming your not a business. Their fairly crafty at sticking your head in a fence and screwing you...... trust me:yes:


There's the rub....on paper I DO supply, I just request material costs up front I go and buy the stuff, with their money. That they gave me. To buy stuff. My invoice is their receipt. I NEVER ask anyone to pick up materials for me, that would be a mess. I understand that asking for money up-front is unprofessional appearing, but at this stage of the game that's how I play it. I'm living check to check at the moment, with my wife in school full time.....I can't afford for someone to f*** me, so I make sure it doesn't happen.



carpentaper said:


> i hear you slim. i just did a 12 board job, all 8 footers. cost around $2800 when i was done.that's supply /hang/finish.it had 20 sticks of bead. i also skimmed out a few rooms of popcorn too, so i know all about those kind of jobs.


I hung 5 8ft sheets the other day, and it took me 7-1/2 hours:laughing: That's really not funny. Okay, yes it is.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I hung 5 8ft sheets the other day, and it took me 7-1/2 hours:laughing: That's really not funny. Okay, yes it is.


Can we have pics of that please







:jester:


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

you must mean you hung lots of pieces of 5 eight foot sheets.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

lets turn this into the " whats the least sheets you ever hung in a day thread" not including days off. on a day where you were doing nothing but hanging board. it took me a full day to get those twelve up.:thumbup: i got the gravy wall done first and it was all uphill from there.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> 2buck!?!? You didn't!? Did you just say I was right!? :blink:
> I think i'm going to cry....
> This is the happiest day of my life!
> I would like to accept this achievement on behalf of all my friends on DrywallTalk! This is for you guys! You've all taught me so well!!
> ...


I agree with anyone who is right:yes:

I guess it took you 947 post to be right about something:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> I agree with anyone who is right:yes:
> 
> I guess it took you 947 post to be right about something:whistling2:


Hahaha! Good call.


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