# Light Gauge Framing Technics



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I thought I would share what I learned through the years, and though were some great framing technics. I'm not saying they're the best, because there's always a better mouse trap. These pictures were taken from a class I taught as an apprenticeship instructor.

I did a lot of layout through the years to the point of having to get a new bag due to chalk stains. When I was young I would go to the Masonry store and buy red, and black dye to use as chalk. Doing a 10 story core in 1985 I could get out on the slab the day after it was placed and snap the layout. That mortar dye would set into that concrete for eternity. I later went to a tenant improvement, and had people track the mortar dye out into the finished hallway and ruin the carpet. I learned to use blue chalk for a reason, and later learned white was for finish like chair rail, or any finish trim.

Here's my layout for the class. I always snap both sides, and paint terminations red, and lock down the line with yellow. The yellow makes it easier to find later, and is cover by the rock and base if concrete is left exposed.









Nesting the top track over the bottom track was a method I learned in the late 90's. This way large sections of top track can be picked up, and free stood, or attached to the grid using several people. All the layout is done, and if walls are plumb so are the doors.










Once it's stood you can brace it off temporary.










And screwing on 4 sheets at two corners creates shear panels and braces the assembly in place.


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Prefabbing the top track off the bottom is a trick my dad taught me a long time ago. Working hourly for people I never showed them or did that little trick. But thats a hell of a tip your giving out, honestly wish you werent!


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Man thats old school my man. Actually nice to see. These young bucks these days are just go go go. Always finding themselves trying to get a square peg in a round hole. We were just starting to prefabbing Four 12 foot columns a while back and some union guys were giving us the look. They came back from lunch and we were taping them and they were like WTF?


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

We ( the drywall cont ) never do major layout that's the gc's job. but most of them will mark the corners and wall intersections on the concrete with permanent marker than spray it with clear paint. than use orange paint between the marker lines .It sounds like over kill but most times it may be months before we get to framing that area and in the mean time the roof is not on yet


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

scottktmrider said:


> We ( the drywall cont ) never do major layout that's the gc's job. but most of them will mark the corners and wall intersections on the concrete with permanent marker than spray it with clear paint. than use orange paint between the marker lines .It sounds like over kill but most times it may be months before we get to framing that area and in the mean time the roof is not on yet


Wait the GC pops all the lines FOR YOU? And YOU build it? Who is responsible when theres a  up????

I wouldnt like that but if it shirks me of responsibility and the  ups in layout are covered by them I guess its cool. I wouldnt trust 95%+ of the GC's I run into's layouts though..

And since the prefabbing top track trick is out of bag may I suggest pulling your stud layout while its on the ground. Takes away a lot of confusion and effort for when you get a guy in the air let alone signifigantly faster. We shoot down the track to a whole job and prefab ALL of it at once. Break it up in as big of chunks as we can handle. 3 guys can stand up as much as 4-5 apples to apples with this method. Thats if that 4-5 are gettin it too!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

nodnarb said:


> Prefabbing the top track off the bottom is a trick my dad taught me a long time ago. Working hourly for people I never showed them or did that little trick. But thats a hell of a tip your giving out, honestly wish you werent!


 At first I didn't like the nesting because of how much time you spent on your knees. I grew to like it though due to having all the stud layout done. Back in the late 90's during the Dot Com craze we were working all kinds of crazy hours. Time and one half Saturday, and double time on Sunday's on separate checks. they started making us lap track 12" about this time too. One city wouldn't let us attach to the t-bar either.

Sorry, I'm not one to be into trade secrets. get faster and work harder than the next guy!


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

nodnarb said:


> Wait the GC pops all the lines FOR YOU? And YOU build it? Who is responsible when theres a  up????
> 
> I wouldnt like that but if it shirks me of responsibility and the  ups in layout are covered by them I guess its cool. I wouldnt trust 95%+ of the GC's I run into's layouts though..
> 
> And since the prefabbing top track trick is out of bag may I suggest pulling your stud layout while its on the ground. Takes away a lot of confusion and effort for when you get a guy in the air let alone signifigantly faster. We shoot down the track to a whole job and prefab ALL of it at once. Break it up in as big of chunks as we can handle. 3 guys can stand up as much as 4-5 apples to apples with this method. Thats if that 4-5 are gettin it too!


Yes, the GC does all the layout and they also set the one piece hollow metal jambs since they swing the doors
And if they screw up its their baby.


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

scottktmrider said:


> Yes, the GC does all the layout and they also set the one piece hollow metal jambs since they swing the doors
> And if they screw up its their baby.


Thats pretty wild to me! Do they  up often? Are all the mess ups treated as change orders after the fact?? 

And I know a lot of guys hate them but I LOVE doors. It would REALLY suck for them to take the doors from me.. thats the kind of stuff I look foward to. The gravy for me is doors, FRP and grid. Love to frame too, but actually humping rock is the worst part of being a "sheetrocker" for me!! Just got done doing some cool Raco sliding doors for a large office. Had almost a full week of it, lovvvvvved it. Never done the sliding ones before.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> Yes, the GC does all the layout and they also set the one piece hollow metal jambs since they swing the doors
> And if they screw up its their baby.


you are the luckiest guy in the world


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a question for you guys
how do you do this over there? you can't mark neither the floor nor the ceiling


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

nodnarb said:


> Thats pretty wild to me! Do they  up often? Are all the mess ups treated as change orders after the fact?? And I know a lot of guys hate them but I LOVE doors. It would REALLY suck for them to take the doors from me.. thats the kind of stuff I look foward to. The gravy for me is doors, FRP and grid. Love to frame too, but actually humping rock is the worst part of being a "sheetrocker" for me!! Just got done doing some cool Raco sliding doors for a large office. Had almost a full week of it, lovvvvvved it. Never done the sliding ones before.


I'm sure you'd like jobs like these and they would a challenge for you


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

keke said:


> I'm sure you'd like jobs like these and they would a challenge for you


Right up my alley!! I love curves and radius's or anything DIFFERENT. I love the challenges framing stuff like that poses. I

As for not being able to make marks on floor nor grid, buy a bunch of masking or painters tape. Lay it out on that, shoot it down and pull up the tape when finished. Dont wait too long or the tape will get all gross and more difficult to peel off.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

keke said:


> I have a question for you guys
> how do you do this over there? you can't mark neither the floor nor the ceiling


 The question is somewhat vague too answer. Why can't you attach to the ceiling? 2 sided tape could be used on the raised floor, and ceiling could be temporarily clamped until kicked to the deck above, but that's not how we'd do it.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

keke said:


> I'm sure you'd like jobs like these and they would a challenge for you


 No challenge, it's what I did!

http://www.scotthansen.net/altabates.html


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

keke said:


> I have a question for you guys
> how do you do this over there? you can't mark neither the floor nor the ceiling


On the ceiling just set up the laser and screw it to the grid


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

scottktmrider said:


> On the ceiling just set up the laser and screw it to the grid


 Do you ever use a plumb bob? I'm kinda curious, because I always set door frames with a bob.


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

A few years back I worked for a company that was building a new office for the selves. in the entry way the ceiling was like 16' we framed some sofits that looked like clouds it was really cool and something different to frame wish I would have took pictures.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> On the ceiling just set up the laser and screw it to the grid


:yes: :thumbsup:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> No challenge, it's what I did!
> 
> http://www.scotthansen.net/altabates.html


I hear you Willy, I was looking for the challenge as well. I've done some interesting projects but I didn't take pictures,,,, hell, digital cameras didn't exist.


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

That looked like a fun job willy! The out of the ordinary stuff are what makes work rewarding for me. As for doors I always use my laser, honestly me being a young-er buck I have hardly ever seen plumb bobs on the job. Saw a water level the other day being used by some tile guys, raised my eyebrows!

Not knocking the validity of a plumb bob OR waterlevel but my PLS is plenty accurate for doors and frames. 

A little trick thats mostly common sense yet often overlooked when framing light gauge is if you are making two pieces the same length measure and snip the sides in your first one on a stud (or track) long enough for two and fold it over and snip another one that way you only have to measure and mark one time. I am not quite articulating this as well as i'd like but I feel its simple enough.

Another trick when cutting a LOT of studs the same length is to cut full bundles with a chop saw or circular saw. Makes for great time on jigs and the like.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> The question is somewhat vague too answer. Why can't you attach to the ceiling? 2 sided tape could be used on the raised floor, and ceiling could be temporarily clamped until kicked to the deck above, but that's not how we'd do it.


sorry for the misunderstanding my fault.....the question was more for scott who says the GC does the layout ... if you look in the pic there's carpet on the floor covered with plastic which makes marking impossible

and in this case because we have covered floor we first set up top plate which is aluminium ( different from the steel one) and after that the bottom plate 


check the pic's and tell me if you use aluminium top plate


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Does the top plate function as your bead as well? Why use it? It looks like its stepped down, is that for the revealed edge tile? 

Never seen that before around these parts.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

keke said:


> sorry for the misunderstanding my fault.....the question was more for scott who says the GC does the layout ... if you look in the pic there's carpet on the floor covered with plastic which makes marking impossible
> 
> and in this case because we have covered floor we first set up top plate which is aluminium ( different from the steel one) and after that the bottom plate
> 
> ...


 I've used many different types of aluminum top tracks. we had one system where the track is 3 3/4" wide, or the same as the wall width. The studs were crimped at the top, but it allowed a full height door to be used. Walls are 9' high, and doors are 8'-10". it made the rock a bit of a challenge to hang, but is a good looking system when done. We could get these tracks in 20' lengths.

Others are a bit wider than the wall width without crimping studs, and give the finished edge for the mud. We also used to do a lot of USG Ultrawall (demountable) with prefinished vinyl panels that clip together with H studs, but it fell out of fashion.

Sometimes on carpet I would do layout with blue tape on the floor prior to plastic. When you can't use stilts you try to minimize up and down. We would shoot the tracks down with a 1 1/2" pin with a washer that Hilti makes.


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

nodnarb said:


> Does the top plate function as your bead as well? Why use it? It looks like its stepped down, is that for the revealed edge tile?
> 
> Never seen that before around these parts.


It looks to me like its the ceiling grid


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

MrWillys said:


> I've used many different types of aluminum top tracks. we had one system where the track is 3 3/4" wide, or the same as the wall width. The studs were crimped at the top, but it allowed a full height door to be used. Walls are 9' high, and doors are 8'-10". it made the rock a bit of a challenge to hang, but is a good looking system when done. We could get these tracks in 20' lengths.
> 
> Others are a bit wider than the wall width without crimping studs, and give the finished edge for the mud. We also used to do a lot of USG Ultrawall (demountable) with prefinished vinyl panels that clip together with H studs, but it fell out of fashion.
> 
> Sometimes on carpet I would do layout with blue tape on the floor prior to plastic. When you can't use stilts you try to minimize up and down. We would shoot the tracks down with a 1 1/2" pin with a washer that Hilti makes.


I saw a ton of those usg vinyl panels doing a remodel i did the demo on too. Made a good nut scrapping those aluminum h studs! All of the rock was applied with double side tape and clips in the joints . Made for SUPER easy demo, could rip it off sheet by sheet load it on a dolly and get it out. Hardly had to sweep or anything! The GC later told me he felt cheated we got it demoed so quick and easily hahah.

I seldom get to use the raco headtrack that eliminates the need for L bead. Most places dont want to pony up for it, shame.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

nodnarb said:


> Does the top plate function as your bead as well? Why use it? It looks like its stepped down, is that for the revealed edge tile?
> 
> Never seen that before around these parts.


yes and it works like a shadow line bead.....it saves you a lot of time with finishing
I'll take a pic tomorrow


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

keke said:


> I have a question for you guys
> how do you do this over there? you can't mark neither the floor nor the ceiling


Masking tape to mark the corners and lasers ...


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Does anyone snip the track slightly for stud layout? If I'm not nesting and using light gauge I will snip track at 15 1/4", 31 1/4", 47 1/4" and so on. This allows the soft side of the stud to be brought up to the snip and screwed. I always place the screw towards the hard side to avoid the flange from folding. using this method keeps the layout guy from bending over so far, and the framer from the same, and sliding the stud back and forth to get it in the right location.


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> Does anyone snip the track slightly for stud layout? If I'm not nesting and using light gauge I will snip track at 15 1/4", 31 1/4", 47 1/4" and so on. This allows the soft side of the stud to be brought up to the snip and screwed. I always place the screw towards the hard side to avoid the flange from folding. using this method keeps the layout guy from bending over so far, and the framer from the same, and sliding the stud back and forth to get it in the right location.


I have never seen that before. The only problem you might have is you need to layout centers on metal studs because one thing is there not 1-1/2" like wood


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

scottktmrider said:


> I have never seen that before. The only problem you might have is you need to layout centers on metal studs because one thing is there not 1-1/2" like wood


Scott,
Metal studs come in many flange widths, but tin can is mainly 1 1/4". The snip method actually makes it more accurate, because it's not dependent on eyeing the center. I've always marked sides as you can see in the beginning of the thread.

Studs can be shown as follows according to the SSMA.

250S125-18 = 2 1/2" Stud 1 1/4" flange 25 ga, or 18 mil thickness

250S162-54 2 1/2" Stud 1 5/8" flange 16 ga or 54 mil thickness

Using this format you can have almost anything you want rolled. Let's say a job spec'd special joists?

1000S200-68 = 10" Stud 2" flange 14 ga, or 68 mil thickness

Great information can be found here'

http://www.ssma.com/filebin/pdf/SSMA_Product_Technical_Guide_2014.pdfhttp://www.ssma.com/filebin/pdf/SSMA_Product_Technical_Guide_2014.pdf


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