# Banjo and bavel filling



## DDay (Mar 11, 2014)

Hi guys, looking to buy a banjo soon, and I'm wondering if I have to fill the bavel after taping with it, since it does not leave much mud in the said bavel.

Looks pretty fast compared to hand taping (I know, I know...) but if I have to fill all the bavels after taping them, I does not sounds that much sexy to me anymore. 

Zooka aint an option, is a banjo a good alternative?

Thanks!


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

if zooka is not an option get the banjo

depending on your budget you can have a look at this http://www.rokntools.com/index/page/id/1378720051

and the cheaper option but still a good one is this 
http://www.walltools.com/homax-6500-drywall-taping-tool-banjo.html

and about filling the bavel well it depends on what you use after banjo: roller, CT with flusher or angle head with the box


----------



## DDay (Mar 11, 2014)

rokntools banjo looks pretty sharp! Pretty sure I'm gonna Invest in this one. 

Unsure about the homax. Looks like my 5 years old' toys with all that plastic. 

Gonna flush the angles, is there a tool to flush the flats and butts too? Was gonna wipe them with hand tools, but if there's a faster way, I'm always in.


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

I like the Kraft banjo . You need to use a box to fill the bevel


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

The easy answer is don't fill the bevel! There is absolutely no need to ever do this when taping. It is an old hand tapers thing. Put the tapes on and wipe em tight. Let the tapes dry so they can properly shrink back. Don't put wet mud over wet tape ever. Let your boxes fill them in when you do your next coats.


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Nothing wrong with a homax, Don't be fooled, Mines 6 years old, goes great, Light fast and easy, The bigger alloy banjos are a bit more to handle and feel a little slower to run sometimes.

Tape, Dry, then 7 box to fill.


----------



## DDay (Mar 11, 2014)

thefinisher said:


> The easy answer is don't fill the bevel! There is absolutely no need to ever do this when taping. It is an old hand tapers thing. Put the tapes on and wipe em tight. Let the tapes dry so they can properly shrink back. Don't put wet mud over wet tape ever. Let your boxes fill them in when you do your next coats.



Won't the second coat shrink back more because there is less mud behind it? I usually hand tape and don't fill it, because there is much more mud than with a banjo. 

I was pretty sure the mud would shrink back to let the bavel show through it, but if not, a banjo would be awesome. But I only saw a guy using it once, and I think he left too little mud under the tape... Machines are pretty rare round here.The only guys using machine I ever saw here is my new boss using a zooka. But I only want to invest in a banjo to start off. for my personnal jobs.


----------



## BNW TAPING (Apr 8, 2014)

DDay said:


> Won't the second coat shrink back more because there is less mud behind it? I usually hand tape and don't fill it, because there is much more mud than with a banjo.
> 
> I was pretty sure the mud would shrink back to let the bavel show through it, but if not, a banjo would be awesome. But I only saw a guy using it once, and I think he left too little mud under the tape... Machines are pretty rare round here.The only guys using machine I ever saw here is my new boss using a zooka. But I only want to invest in a banjo to start off. for my personnal jobs.


pre fill run joint compound to tape, wipe tight on the bevels, don't mix any water in your compound( depending where you live and what mud your using) for your load coat then skim coat, bow/curve trowel on the beads first coat... found that the only good thing about the homax banjo compared to the other alloy banjos is the heads. the rollers work great and the corner creaser wheel is mint.. have you ever tried using the **** box/super taper?


----------



## DDay (Mar 11, 2014)

BNW TAPING said:


> pre fill run joint compound to tape, wipe tight on the bevels, don't mix any water in your compound( depending where you live and what mud your using) for your load coat then skim coat, bow/curve trowel on the beads first coat... found that the only good thing about the homax banjo compared to the other alloy banjos is the heads. the rollers work great and the corner creaser wheel is mint.. have you ever tried using the **** box/super taper?



Heard some good things about that chit box, but I've been told it's messy as my dog on a bad diahrrea day. Faster/better than a banjo, you think?


----------



## BNW TAPING (Apr 8, 2014)

its cheaper way messier, the banjo you have to stop and fill quite a bit, find the banjo is better when your on your own and the ****box is better when you have one or two guys behind you wiping, if you do not work on stilts banjo is better i have found, another option is a cp tube with a flat head and corner head to get the mud on then through the tape up and wipe works well for basements


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

http://youtu.be/PunvpDjCMcI here is an old vid of banjo tapin


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

If you're worried about filling the bevel, get a banjo that will adjust enough to allow for that kind of mud flow. My Ames Cobra banjo puts out more than enough when opened up.


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

JustMe said:


> If you're worried about filling the bevel, get a banjo that will adjust enough to allow for that kind of mud flow. My Ames Cobra banjo puts out more than enough when opened up.


And it has a sturdy steel nose on it, so I can drive paper tape into the wall on the flats, butts. Basically wipes itself, other than a little cleanup.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

JustMe said:


> If you're worried about filling the bevel, get a banjo that will adjust enough to allow for that kind of mud flow. My Ames Cobra banjo puts out more than enough when opened up.


 Yup open it up, wipe with an 8 or 10 fill as you go. If you hand tape filling the bevels in on ceilings will allow you to skip a coat and pull finish coat extra tight. If you dont fill bevels in on ceilings you also could have some issues in direct sunlight and at nite unless you really feather them out extra wide..


----------



## Drywall_King (Dec 18, 2010)

The cheap banjo is all i use, iv used a bazooka and own the best one in australia, as for filling the bevel everyone i know puts wet mud over the tape in canada we used to just wipe tight and fill but in Oz we use a 45-90 minute base compound to apply tapes and filling the bevel is a must, as for the banjo the cheap 80$ one is the choise for all the professionals i know cause there are a lot of factors to your mudd going off on you... Once you master such a cheap tool you will be very very fast with flats and internals (Angles) does not require a pump no suckin air no bubbles easy cleaning... Iv run a bazooka and a cheap banjo and i can honistly say for the aussie aryle where i live the bazooka stays at home...


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Very interesting comments Dan. I have a bazooka, and at this time of the year in Vic mine stays at home for the flats. (Gone back to the Homax) But in the warmer months I will be back running it. Have you tried the Boral Redi Base? It should work great for your climate in QLD, I would have thought that you could use it all year round.


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

Drywall_King said:


> Iv run a bazooka and a cheap banjo and i can honistly say for the aussie aryle where i live the bazooka stays at home...


if you want bazooka at work you need to use RediBase the best product made ever by Boral

http://www.boral.com.au/productcatalogue/product.aspx?product=2539&WT.mc_id=compounds_redibase-05


----------



## Drywall_King (Dec 18, 2010)

For us smart people we have no time for ready base... Id loose a day using it... Iv used it and loved it... I need mudd to set.. One thing iv learned and a tip to all... Even though your mud is hard and set let it completly dry for max performance...


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I hear what you are saying about each coat being DRY. So bearing that in mind. Why is there no place for Redibase? I would have thought that in QLD it would not dry any slower than base 60.


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Im always loading coat after coat, I have to make it economical and earn a living, At the moment im loading 3 coats a day onto painted walls that have cracked, As long as you leave it long enough and use heaters etc etc to make sure its dry then its all good.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Drywall_King said:


> For us smart people we have no time for ready base... Id loose a day using it... Iv used it and loved it... I need mudd to set.. One thing iv learned and a tip to all... Even though your mud is hard and set let it completly dry for max performance...


Yep....It's fast setting. Not fast drying!


cazna said:


> Im always loading coat after coat, I have to make it economical and earn a living, At the moment im loading 3 coats a day onto painted walls that have cracked, As long as you leave it long enough and use heaters etc etc to make sure its dry then its all good.


I do It all the time Cazna....It's Like the Capt said once...or twice...or who knows how many times...! You can have it right ! Or you can have It right now! They both pay the same!


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Yep....It's fast setting. Not fast drying!
> 
> 
> I do It all the time Cazna....It's Like the Capt said once...or twice...or who knows how many times...! You can have it right ! Or you can have It right now! They both pay the same!


 
Im having some great results at the moment over paint with a 50%hotmud 50% AP and a little pva added, Sticks like all hell, It still sets for multi coating, and NO bubbles, One straight AP for a top coat, Leave it long enough to dry, Sands well, Im getting full days work and getting on with it, Everyone happy :thumbsup:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> Im having some great results at the moment over paint with a 50%hotmud 50% AP and a little pva added, Sticks like all hell, It still sets for multi coating, and NO bubbles, One straight AP for a top coat, Leave it long enough to dry, Sands well, Im getting full days work and getting on with it, Everyone happy :thumbsup:


 I'll give that a go next time Cazna .. Thanks for the info!


I was talking to a D/C Recently about the bubbles over paint .
He said he tapes the patch with hot mud..Then coats and skims the patch with Light weight mud. USG plus 3. All L/W muds are pretty much the same from what I've seen so I guess any kind would do..But he said The L/W won't bubble up like the A/P compounds .


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I made a test board at home, Painted it, Then taped 7 different mud mixes on it with paper tape and left a dry tab so I could pull it off a week later, The results were very very interesting,:yes: Hotmuds = hopeless bonding and bubbles, AP = a mass of bubbles and to slow drying so its just not economic, Mix the two and much better, Add a little pva and OMG, Tape halves itself, No way that's coming off and very hard to scrape off and NO bubbles..............UREKA moment. I have a lot of it to do, A holiday park, 8 Cabins, Shower rooms, toilets, kitchen dining living room, All cracked due to earthquake, im nearly half way through and it going better than I could have dreamed of, I actually like this work now, Too easy. :whistling2:


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

I've done it many times but 50/50 I think is too much. I usually mix AP with a handful of hot mud even for the second coat - this helps even with AP's set up - but you have to be fast otherwise you get lumps


----------



## Clinto (Jan 5, 2014)

i got my homax banjo through the mail on saturday, i've used it on 2 jobs and it has cut my time in half, it is tremendous. it's now got me thinking of other tools, any recommendations lads?


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

keke said:


> I've done it many times but 50/50 I think is too much. I usually mix AP with a handful of hot mud even for the second coat - this helps even with AP's set up - but you have to be fast otherwise you get lumps


Different hotmuds, Im getting no lumps, Its smooth as silk, It just slowly firms up.



Clinto said:


> i got my homax banjo through the mail on saturday, i've used it on 2 jobs and it has cut my time in half, it is tremendous. it's now got me thinking of other tools, any recommendations lads?


Haha, Oh your screwed now :whistling2: CP tube and mudheads corner roller and flushers next.


----------



## BOBTHEFIXER (Oct 28, 2013)

Clinto said:


> i got my homax banjo through the mail on saturday, i've used it on 2 jobs and it has cut my time in half, it is tremendous. it's now got me thinking of other tools, any recommendations lads?


Same thing happened with me 

Banjo then tube+flusher then homax then 10&12 inch boxes.


----------



## Clinto (Jan 5, 2014)

thanks cazna & BOBTHEFIXER, excuse the late reply but really appreciated!


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Sorry for bumping this old thread but anyone know how much water is good to mix in the mud for a homax banjo. Ive tryed today to put 4 large dunkin cups into usg greenlid. I believe thats about 60 oz but yet its still hard to pull tape threw and keeps on ripping on me its like I have to always hold the tape or else it drags. Im scared to use alot of water because I really dont want to come back to fix stuff when I can prevent it. Im getting so frustrated with the banjo.


----------



## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Sounds like you still need more water. 
I'm thinking of making a gauge like what is suggested in the Graco RTX sprayer video. Then you should be getting repeatable results no matter what consistency the mud starts out as.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> Sorry for bumping this old thread but anyone know how much water is good to mix in the mud for a homax banjo. Ive tryed today to put 4 large dunkin cups into usg greenlid. I believe thats about 60 oz but yet its still hard to pull tape threw and keeps on ripping on me its like I have to always hold the tape or else it drags. Im scared to use alot of water because I really dont want to come back to fix stuff when I can prevent it. Im getting so frustrated with the banjo.


need more water :thumbsup:. You want it pretty runny.


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Ya but wont thinning it down even more mean less glue or shiuld I add something im using usg green lid


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

With the Homax, if you can't pour the mud it is to thick. It is no wetter than that used by an auto taper, so I would not worry about it being too wet.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Very true. Just think.... probably 90% of finishers tape with a banjo or bazooka so they all have to thin down the mud considerably. You won't have any problems.


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Ok thanks for the confidence its not my first time with the banjo but was getting discouraged will try to add 2 more cups.


----------



## Deerhunter_28 (Oct 9, 2014)

Tagged for later


PSE EVO 60 Lbs.
Blacked out


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

I use a compound tube and a half of water for green bucket, i think MLD suggested that amount. Yeah its soup. 


http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


----------



## jantzenmoore (Sep 25, 2014)

Clinto if you are looking for new tools check this banjo attachment out! 
http://en.rokntools.com/index/page/id/1378720051
I've been thinking about getting one. Looks pretty slick to me!


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

it was one of my Christmas presents


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Thinned it down 1 tube and a half and works 100 times better thanks brothers


----------



## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

keke said:


> it was one of my Christmas presents


How's that tekroll been working for ya ?


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> Thinned it down 1 tube and a half and works 100 times better thanks brothers


:thumbsup:


----------



## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

DDay said:


> Hi guys, looking to buy a banjo soon, and I'm wondering if I have to fill the bavel after taping with it, since it does not leave much mud in the said bavel.
> 
> Looks pretty fast compared to hand taping (I know, I know...) but if I have to fill all the bavels after taping them, I does not sounds that much sexy to me anymore.
> 
> ...


Prefill everything with durabond or smoothset prior to taping. Very little fill needed on first coat then.


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

I think hes talking about the recess on the sheets when I tape with the banjo even fully open it doesnt leave enough to fill it.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> I think hes talking about the recess on the sheets when I tape with the banjo even fully open it doesnt leave enough to fill it.


It's not supposed to! That is why you have two more coats lol.


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

thefinisher said:


> It's not supposed to! That is why you have two more coats lol.




first coat is to fill it up

second coat is to make it look good

third coat is to make it perfect

this is my first coat with fill it up


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

keke said:


> first coat is to fill it up
> 
> second coat is to make it look good
> 
> ...


Believe he is talking about the banjo not leaving enough mud to fill the bevel..... which isn't it's job


----------



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

thefinisher said:


> Believe he is talking about the banjo not leaving enough mud to fill the bevel..... which isn't it's job


but whose job is that ?If your banjo doesn't leave enough mud, i reckon it's a design fault but somebody sold me a trick - cut it back to make a bigger opening- thanks Gaz :thumbsup:


----------



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

keke said:


> but whose job is that ?If your banjo doesn't leave enough mud, i reckon it's a design fault but somebody told me a trick - cut it back to make a bigger opening- thanks Gaz :thumbsup:


I fixed it for you Keke :thumbsup:.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

keke said:


> but whose job is that ?If your banjo doesn't leave enough mud, i reckon it's a design fault but somebody sold me a trick - cut it back to make a bigger opening- thanks Gaz :thumbsup:


Still don't think you understand what I'm getting at. Bevel=recess. Perhaps your thinking about the actual joint... if even a homax doesn't fill the joint then you have bad board. No banjo is meant to leave enough mud to fill the recess or "bevel". That's what boxes are for :thumbsup:


----------



## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

thefinisher said:


> Still don't think you understand what I'm getting at. Bevel=recess. Perhaps your thinking about the actual joint... if even a homax doesn't fill the joint then you have bad board. No banjo is meant to leave enough mud to fill the recess or "bevel". That's what boxes are for :thumbsup:


Yea it fills the joint im talking about the recess like you said I usually just fill it in anyways because the hangers dont put the screws right next to the joint they like to put it right on the top of the recess which then I have to hit now to spot the screws. I already told them to put it closer but its like pulling teeth I told him about all the screws sticking out and he said ohh the screws that we get now they like to go sideways and left not even try to put the screws in. If the gc asks why im behind im gonna tell him I almost had to put every screw in. Noone understands the bull**** we have to go through to make garbage look good


----------



## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Sounds like your hanger has been getting away with shoddy workmanship at your expense.


----------



## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> Yea it fills the joint im talking about the recess like you said I usually just fill it in anyways because the hangers dont put the screws right next to the joint they like to put it right on the top of the recess which then I have to hit now to spot the screws. I already told them to put it closer but its like pulling teeth I told him about all the screws sticking out and he said ohh the screws that we get now they like to go sideways and left not even try to put the screws in. If the gc asks why im behind im gonna tell him I almost had to put every screw in. Noone understands the bull**** we have to go through to make garbage look good


Like I said, don't worry about it filling the recess because there is no need. Just spot the screws as you wipe the tape down.


----------

