# How Do I Fix This Finishing Mess



## antoniosmall

Hello, I am working in a bathroom for a friend and I feel like I really screwed the pooch on this finishing job and I wanted to know what I can do to fix it.

I've never finished drywall before and i've been watching videos and reading and have been getting a better understanding of each tool and their purpose along the way. Unfortunately, I had to make a bunch of mistakes in order to figure things out.

Mistakes
1. Not working with properly fastened drywall - loose in some areas.
2. Not using the right tools for the right application.
3. Not mixing my pre-mixed drywall compound.

Right now I have a wall with humps, craters and air holes in the compound. 

What should I do to fix this?


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## moore

The biggest mistake you made Is trying to do It yourself.


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## VANMAN

moore said:


> The biggest mistake you made Is trying to do It yourself.


I quite like the rustic look!:thumbup:


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## antoniosmall

Moore, do you have any input on how I can fix it?


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> Moore, do you have any input on how I can fix it?


Hire a Drywall Contractor . If you can find one willing.


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## MrWillys

Go buy a box of topping mud and a paddle to spin it up. Put it in a bucket and add a pint + of clean water and mix it. Coat the entire surface and don't worry about tool marks. once dry sand and repeat until smooth. If that is a tape blister in the second picture it must be cut out and repaired. Put water on top of the mud in the bucket to store. Pour water out and remix next day. use a 12" knife with 1 or 2 fingers.


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> Go buy a box of topping mud and a paddle to spin it up. Put it in a bucket and add a pint + of clean water and mix it. Coat the entire surface and don't worry about tool marks. once dry sand and repeat until smooth. If that is a tape blister in the second picture it must be cut out and repaired. Put water on top of the mud in the bucket to store. Pour water out and remix next day. use a 12" knife with 1 or 2 fingers.


Save what mud? :blink: You need a new mouse pad Scott!!:yes: And what dollar store did you get that knife from??


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## moore

http://www.diychatroom.com//


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## MrWillys

moore said:


> Save what mud? :blink: You need a new mouse pad Scott!!:yes: And what dollar store did you get that knife from??


Ames Taping tool. it's a stainless Walboard 12". If I have a half a box of mud in a bucket I pour water on top so it doesn't dry out. Got one out in the garage left over from my kids house. Got one small section left to do in my garage that I keep putting off. 
The oil line from engine to the gauge must have been rubbing something and broke in the Jeep yesterday. So today I pulled a piece of the floor out and plugged it. I'm taking her down after September to paint and make her a show queen for a bit.
Leave my mouse pad out it. My daughter bought that for her daddie.


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## moore

Once this guy opens a bucket ..He's gonna need to empty It .:yes:


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## krafty

Sand it down, find studs,rescrew. Get a bucket of regular joint compound, put mud on,wipe down one side then other using thumb and index finger like in pic.wipe straight down tight,sand again. Practice on scrap pc. But sand that stuff all the way down and cut out blisters.


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## antoniosmall

Thanks for the help Mr.Willys. On the second and third coats when do you use a knife and when do you use a trowel?


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## MrWillys

antoniosmall said:


> Thanks for the help Mr.Willys. On the second and third coats when do you use a knife and when do you use a trowel?


Out West finishers use knives and plasterers (exterior stucco for the aussies) use trowels. Now matter what just keep coating and sanding. After sanding I typically knock the dust off with a damp sponge before coating.

Also, taping is done with taping mud and coating is done with topping. You can use all purpose for taping but we never did. You also have fast set muds from 5 to 240 minute.


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## moore

Knock the dust off with a wet sponge? :vs_lol::vs_lol: Your the next one off to the DIYchatroom mrwilly!


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## krafty

I'm almost as far east as you can get , and only learned with knives. But you're right mostly trowel guys.


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## MrWillys

moore said:


> Knock the dust off with a wet sponge? :vs_lol::vs_lol: Your the next one off to the DIYchatroom mrwilly!


Rick, you are a much better finisher than me. I use a damp sponge and I'll sand sometimes between coats. Laugh all you want cuz I can cut a stair and a roof and paint my Jeep.









The difference is I was the finishers boss. I'm just trying to help the guy rather than be obtuse.


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## endo_alley

Just tell the owners that this is the latest upcoming texture of the future. But that you will give them an introductory bargain on it because they are a special client.


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## MrWillys

krafty said:


> I'm almost as far east as you can get , and only learned with knives. But you're right mostly trowel guys.


In my entire life I've never personally seen a guy use a hawk and trowel. I was on the job as a kid in the early 70's and we had gunmen, box men & finishers, texture guys (skip trowel back then) and the spray rig for acoustic. Changed to spray texture in the 80's. Only commercial is smoothwall out West.


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## krafty

Yeah all smooth wall here some of those guys are really good I just like the reach of knives and I can float and blend everything.


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## gazman

Before I started using auto tools a 6 inch knife and hawk was used for the tape coat, then curved trowels and hawk for the next two coats. And a flat trowel for all coats for bead. Now zooka followed by 8 inch knife and pan, then boxes for the rest of the coats. Still hawk and trowel for bead, mind you I have been known to use a 12 inch box for the skim on bead. And then there are the angles_______________.


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## Kiwiman

For starters go buy yourself a tungsten limbide scraper and scrape most of it back, cut/gouge out anything that appears to be a bubble under the mud otherwise they will keep reappearing. Because you're a novice You might be best to put on many tight coats in different directions each coat, don't be in too much of a hurry and give it a chance to dry, a thick layer of wet mud can bubble the paper underneath.


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## antoniosmall

MrWillys said:


> The difference is I was the finishers boss. I'm just trying to help the guy rather than be obtuse.


I really appreciate the help!

With your help I am going to get better and my clients are going to get a better product. 

.The Bible says, I will bless those who bless you. Genesis 12:3


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## gordie

antoniosmall said:


> I really appreciate the help!
> 
> With your help I am going to get better and my clients are going to get a better product.
> 
> .The Bible says, I will bless those who bless you. Genesis 12:3


This is the only thing I'm not cool with dude . Helping you out of this jam your in is pretty good of these guys but your screwing your "client", and other true trades people who service your area . They charge the prices they charge because the work is hard and needs to be done properly or bad things happen .
you need to work in the trades man it doesn't take as long as it takes to be a lawyer but it does take some time on the tools to do good work, and guy with a morals would look at what he is doing and right his path it's not that hard to work and learn for a year or two. Learning is pay you should take my advice before you ruin you name mang.


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## moore

And ! Did we really need to bring the Lord Into this?


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> The difference is I was the finishers boss. I'm just trying to help the guy rather than be obtuse.



WELL That's a first for me! I have never seen a hanger [that can't finish] tell a finisher what to do. :blink:

I'M obtuse? This site Is for pros In the drywall field. His profile says G/C. 

I don't buy that for a second.


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## antoniosmall

gordie said:


> This is the only thing I'm not cool with dude . Helping you out of this jam your in is pretty good of these guys but your screwing your "client", and other true trades people who service your area . They charge the prices they charge because the work is hard and needs to be done properly or bad things happen .
> you need to work in the trades man it doesn't take as long as it takes to be a lawyer but it does take some time on the tools to do good work, and guy with a morals would look at what he is doing and right his path it's not that hard to work and learn for a year or two. Learning is pay you should take my advice before you ruin you name mang.


I understand where you're coming from BUT you're assuming I don't want to learn. Did you read the part in my original post where I said I've watched videos and read books?

I'm a construction manager and soon to be licensed GC. I've been in the industry for a couple of years and there is a recurring theme that I keep seeing and it's multi-faceted and industry wide.

Tradesmen are hated and despised for good reason: they don't know their numbers, they don't schedule their work property, they rob Peter to pay Paul, they under estimate, overcharge and under deliver. In a lot of cases you really have to beat a tradesmen into a corner before you get honest pricing and performance. Which is why construction is such a litigated industry if not the MOST litigated industry.

Personally, I hate being held hostage to tradesmen who think because they know something and bought the tools to prove it you have to bow down to them and accept all of their terms. Yes, Moore, I'm looking at you. I'm sure your numbers are "high" due to an over-inflated ego or your over-extended overhead ($50k work-truck) more than a reflection of the work difficulty. 

In case you haven't noticed helping people is a good thing and it won't put you out of business - in my opinion it will help your business the more helpful you are. Put instructional videos on Youtube with your phone number and see if helping people doesn't bring you business.

If you're not doing well in construction it's not because some future GC (me) is working in some bathroom, AT A LOSS, in Miami for the mother of a friend. If you're not doing well in construction it's because: 1) you're not good at what you do, 2) you're not fun to work with (Moore, I'm looking at you again) or 3) you don't have a marketing system in place to let Moore and Moore people know how good you are at what you do and how fun you are to work with. I'm leaning towards the latter - you don't have a marketing system.

How do I know all this? It's because construction spending is UP and availability of skilled tradesmen is DOWN and it's been that way for a couple of years now.


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> I understand where you're coming from BUT you're assuming I don't want to learn. Did you read the part in my original post where I said I've watched videos and read books?
> 
> I'm a construction manager and soon to be licensed GC. I've been in the industry for a couple of years and there is a recurring theme that I keep seeing and it's multi-faceted and industry wide.
> 
> Tradesmen are hated and despised for good reason: they don't know their numbers, they don't schedule their work property, they rob Peter to pay Paul, they under estimate, overcharge and under deliver. In a lot of cases you really have to beat a tradesmen into a corner before you get honest pricing and performance. Which is why construction is such a litigated industry if not the MOST litigated industry.
> 
> Personally, I hate being held hostage to tradesmen who think because they know something and bought the tools to prove it you have to bow down to them and accept all of their terms. Yes, Moore, I'm looking at you. I'm sure your numbers are "high" due to an over-inflated ego or your over-extended overhead ($50k work-truck) more than a reflection of the work difficulty.
> 
> In case you haven't noticed helping people is a good thing and it won't put you out of business - in my opinion it will help your business the more helpful you are. Put instructional videos on Youtube with your phone number and see if helping people doesn't bring you business.
> 
> If you're not doing well in construction it's not because some future GC (me) is working in some bathroom, AT A LOSS, in Miami for the mother of a friend. If you're not doing will in construction it's because: 1) you're not good at what you do, 2) you're not fun to work with (Moore, I'm looking at you again) or 3) you don't have a marketing system in place to let Moore and Moore people know how good you are at what you do and how fun you are to work with. I'm leaning towards the latter - you don't have a marketing system.
> 
> How do I know all this? It's because construction spending is UP and availability of skilled tradesmen is DOWN and it's been that way for a couple of years now.


If you want to be a good G/C ? You need to find good subs. Sounds like so far you haven't ! A good G/C is only as good as the Subs he hires. THAT'S A FACT!

I don't need a marketing system. WOM Is good enough for me . It weeds out the riff raff [like you] 

If you find a pro to fix that mess you made It's gonna cost you three times what It would have to have hired a pro in the first place. So what did you save?

''availability of skilled tradesmen is DOWN'' Don't even get me started!! You know why that Is!!

I did a home recently for a retired G/C that I've done work for since I was a 16 year old kid..It was his personal home [retirement home] He was one of those old school builders that could build the home from the ground up If he wanted ..But he told me that every time he and his men tried to do their own drywall ..He'd lose his ass!!

Here's my youtube channel . no # attached .. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXVG9VWFvzcbqCutSnY0nTQ


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## antoniosmall

moore said:


> If you want to be a good G/C ? You need to find good subs. Sounds like so far you haven't ! A good G/C is only as good as the Subs he hires. THAT'S A FACT!
> 
> I don't need a marketing system. WOM Is good enough for me . It weeds out the riff raff [like you]
> 
> If you find a pro to fix that mess you made It's gonna cost you three times what It would have to have hired a pro in the first place. So what did you save?
> 
> ''availability of skilled tradesmen is DOWN'' Don't even get me started!! You know why that Is!!
> 
> I did a home recently for a retired G/C that I've done work for since I was a 16 year old kid..It was his personal home [retirement home] He was one of those old school builders that could build the home from the ground up If he wanted ..But he told me that every time he and his men tried to do their own drywall ..He'd lose his ass!!
> 
> Here's my youtube channel . no # attached .. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXVG9VWFvzcbqCutSnY0nTQ


1) If my abilities are limited or enhanced by someone else then it would suck to be me because as soon as that person decides to leave, overcharge or die then at best my value comes into question, I'm held hostage or at worst I become worthless. Sounds good as a bumper sticker but a horrible way to run a business. This thinking probably accounts for the HIGH failure rate of new companies in the industry.

2) No need for a marketing system? Really? That type of thinking is probably another reason for the high failure rate in the industry.

3) I'm going to fix the problem myself, God-willing, so I don't have to deal with being charged 3X's and/or dealing with unanswered phone calls, texts, and no-shows.

4) I'd like to hear your opinion on why the number of skilled tradesmen is down.

5) That's one G.C. with one problem that probably didn't take the necessary steps to correct. Books, videos, training, mentorship, more pay, etc.

6) Your Youtube videos are getting very little views. I've watched drywall finishing videos with 100k views and your average is around 100. I think your headlines have something to do with it - not very descriptive.


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> 1) Your Youtube videos are getting very little views. I've watched drywall finishing videos with 100k views and your average is around 100. I think your headlines have something to do with it - not very descriptive.



I made those vids for my Brothers here at DWT. I really don't care what the rest of the world thinks!


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## moore

Here's one with 161,384 views . This one may help you out.

Since the views Is what really matters!!!:yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAd2Wcp1f_8


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## krafty

Turkey baster and Tupperware lid works for me!


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## moore

Remember this Chick ?



http://www.drywalltalk.com/search.php?searchid=1419322


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## gazman

Your link is not working Rick.


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## gordie

Antonio I apologize immediately . I didn't realize you were willing to watch all the best how to visit out there. Moore were both idiots . My new advice is to go buy a complete taping auto tools taping set from your local drywall suplies store.Columbia taping tools has great vids you'll be better than Moore in a week he still uses knives lol . With this new set you can fix any bad boarding and most water leeks from bad plumbing you determination is very inspiring your clients are very lucky to have met you 😤😤😤


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## moore

gazman said:


> Your link is not working Rick.


http://www.drywalltalk.com/members/catzcar-2239


http://www.drywalltalk.com/f8/emergency-help-needed-stippling-ceiling-1964/index10/#post28195


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## antoniosmall

gordie said:


> Antonio I apologize immediately . I didn't realize you were willing to watch all the best how to visit out there. Moore were both idiots . My new advice is to go buy a complete taping auto tools taping set from your local drywall suplies store.Columbia taping tools has great vids you'll be better than Moore in a week he still uses knives lol . With this new set you can fix any bad boarding and most water leeks from bad plumbing you determination is very inspiring your clients are very lucky to have met you ������


Actually doing it, watching someone else do it, reading about it getting done.

That's how I learned estimating, scheduling, procurement, contracts, tiling, painting, tennis, basketball, writing, algebra, calculus, operations management, statistics, HTML, CSS, PHP, cooking and the Bible.

I never had to hire anyone to learn anything BUT I guess you're saying drywall finishing is different.

You should watch the TED Talk by Josh Kaufman about learning anything in 20 hours.


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## Mr.Brightstar

antoniosmall said:


> Actually doing it, watching someone else do it, reading about it getting done.
> 
> That's how I learned estimating, scheduling, procurement, contracts, tiling, painting, tennis, basketball, writing, algebra, calculus, operations management, statistics, HTML, CSS, PHP, cooking and the Bible.
> 
> I never had to hire anyone to learn anything BUT I guess you're saying drywall finishing is different.
> 
> You should watch the TED Talk by Josh Kaufman about learning anything in 20 hours.




Your a handyman not a G/C. Your system is defective and unacceptable. It's Fakes like you that give contractors a bad name.


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> Actually doing it, watching someone else do it, reading about it getting done.
> 
> That's how I learned estimating, scheduling, procurement, contracts, tiling, painting, tennis, basketball, writing, algebra, calculus, operations management, statistics, HTML, CSS, PHP, cooking and the Bible.
> 
> I never had to hire anyone to learn anything BUT I guess you're saying drywall finishing is different.
> 
> You should watch the TED Talk by Josh Kaufman about learning anything in 20 hours.


Jack of all! Master of none ! :notworthy:
:notworthy:


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## gazman

antoniosmall said:


> Actually doing it, watching someone else do it, reading about it getting done.
> 
> That's how I learned estimating, scheduling, procurement, contracts, tiling, painting, tennis, basketball, writing, algebra, calculus, operations management, statistics, HTML, CSS, PHP, cooking and the Bible.
> 
> I never had to hire anyone to learn anything BUT I guess you're saying drywall finishing is different.
> 
> You should watch the TED Talk by Josh Kaufman about learning anything in 20 hours.


So how's that working out for you? The fact that you are on here asking questions and posting pics like the OP, tells me not so good. If you are charging a client for a job you should be able to deliver the finished product to an acceptable level. That is why we have apprentices come up through the trade. As a tradie we don't send them out on their first day to finish a job, THEY RECEIVE TRAINING. 
Would I like to have someone with your skill level in drywall charge me ? No. And I don't say this to be offencive, it is just a fact.


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## gordie

Haha I can thank again


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## antoniosmall

gazman said:


> So how's that working out for you? The fact that you are on here asking questions and posting pics like the OP, tells me not so good. If you are charging a client for a job you should be able to deliver the finished product to an acceptable level. That is why we have apprentices come up through the trade. As a tradie we don't send them out on their first day to finish a job, THEY RECEIVE TRAINING.
> Would I like to have someone with your skill level in drywall charge me ? No. And I don't say this to be offencive, it is just a fact.


It's actually working out great. If you noticed on the first page of this post Mr. Willys gave excellent advice on how I can fix my issue. His confidence has given me confidence. I'm going to fix this problem and do better on my next finishing job - yes, there will be others. I'm confident i'll get better and better.


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## antoniosmall

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Your a handyman not a G/C. Your system is defective and unacceptable. It's Fakes like you that give contractors a bad name.


I've got one more test and the State of Florida is going to have to disagree with you regarding the handyman title you're trying to bestow upon me. 

"Defective and unacceptable"? Says who?


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## krafty

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


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## MrWillys

antoniosmall said:


> Actually doing it, watching someone else do it, reading about it getting done.
> 
> That's how I learned estimating, scheduling, procurement, contracts, tiling, painting, tennis, basketball, writing, algebra, calculus, operations management, statistics, HTML, CSS, PHP, cooking and the Bible.
> 
> I never had to hire anyone to learn anything BUT I guess you're saying drywall finishing is different.
> 
> You should watch the TED Talk by Josh Kaufman about learning anything in 20 hours.





antoniosmall said:


> I've got one more test and the State of Florida is going to have to disagree with you regarding the handyman title you're trying to bestow upon me.
> 
> "Defective and unacceptable"? Says who?


 Let me apologize for the members of this forum for their ignorance and intolerance. Some here claim to be contractors and pay their people through misclassification of employees as independent contractor and yet can't see a real 1 horse outfit. I see someone who wants to learn and the tapers on this board are beating him up. YES, I said TAPERS because most of you wouldn't make it on my crew and you know it. While you're great finishers you've leaned so far to what you're good at you're not journeyman hangars with the exception of Gordie. Can you write code like HTML and PHP? You don't even know what it means but it is what has allowed you to beat this guy down. Stop it all and apologize for your actions. This same idiocracy may allow a bully a braggart to rule over the greatest nation in the world.


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## Mr.Brightstar

MrWillys said:


> Let me apologize for the members of this forum for their ignorance and intolerance. Some here claim to be contractors and pay their people through misclassification of employees as independent contractor and yet can't see a real 1 horse outfit. I see someone who wants to learn and the tapers on this board are beating him up. YES, I said TAPERS because most of you wouldn't make it on my crew and you know it. While you're great finishers you've leaned so far to what you're good at you're not journeyman hangars with the exception of Gordie. Can you write code like HTML and PHP? You don't even know what it means but it is what has allowed you to beat this guy down. Stop it all and apologize for your actions. This same idiocracy may allow a bully a braggart to rule over the greatest nation in the world.




I thought the guy was given a solid answer earlier in this thread. G/C's hire subs, you know this. If he wants to be a G/C he should learn what the prices are is his area and get a few quotes from a Drywall contractor. This is what GC's do. It sounds to me this guy might not even know what his prices are.

The incentive to hire subcontractors is either to reduce costs or to mitigate project risks. In this way, the general contractor receives the same or better service than the general contractor could have provided by itself, at lower overall risk. Many subcontractors do work for the same companies rather than different ones. This allows subcontractors to further specialize their skills.


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## MrWillys

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I thought the guy was given a solid answer earlier in this thread. G/C's hire subs, you know this. If he wants to be a G/C he should learn what the prices are is his area and get a few quotes from a Drywall contractor. This is what GC's do. It sounds to me this guy might not even know what his prices are.
> 
> The incentive to hire subcontractors is either to reduce costs or to mitigate project risks. In this way, the general contractor receives the same or better service than the general contractor could have provided by itself, at lower overall risk. Many subcontractors do work for the same companies rather than different ones. This allows subcontractors to further specialize their skills.


You are correct GC's hire subs but there are several here than sub out the hanging calling them contractors when they are employee's. We should be encouraging people on this board instead of berating them. Some here have never done large commercial drywall. Does that make them less of a participant than others?
The guys does small residential remodels and wants to keep his work all in house. Is he less than another? He can code in HTML and PHP which tells me he has a high intellect. FWIW, HTML is what Al Gore pushed for and passed legislation that eventually enabled the world wide web as we know it today.

You all should be ashamed because you are no better than another. Hitler thought he was superior and you are aligning with a similar ideal.


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## Mr.Brightstar

antoniosmall said:


> I've got one more test and the State of Florida is going to have to disagree with you regarding the handyman title you're trying to bestow upon me.
> 
> 
> 
> "Defective and unacceptable"? Says who?




Your pics of the wall of shame, say it all.


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## Mr.Brightstar

MrWillys said:


> You are correct GC's hire subs but there are several here than sub out the hanging calling them contractors when they are employee's. We should be encouraging people on this board instead of berating them. Some here have never done large commercial drywall. Does that make them less of a participant than others?
> 
> This is a whole other issue. Many subs have employees that don't speak a lick of English. They collect food stamps, welfare, government assistance. You can't dare ask them if there are legal, that is seen as unethical. And don't be naïve you know they don't pay taxes. This is what the globalist democratic elite want. That's why it is the way it is. You're not going to solve the problem with the same thinking that started this problem. Maybe that's what this dudes problem is?


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> You are correct GC's hire subs but there are several here than sub out the hanging calling them contractors when they are employee's. We should be encouraging people on this board instead of berating them. Some here have never done large commercial drywall. Does that make them less of a participant than others?
> The guys does small residential remodels and wants to keep his work all in house. Is he less than another? He can code in HTML and PHP which tells me he has a high intellect. FWIW, HTML is what Al Gore pushed for and passed legislation that eventually enabled the world wide web as we know it today.
> 
> You all should be ashamed because you are no better than another. Hitler thought he was superior and you are aligning with a similar ideal.


I sub out hanging to licensed hangers and carry comp on them because they don't have it. I send them a 1099 at the end of the year. How is that illegal ?


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## antoniosmall

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I thought the guy was given a solid answer earlier in this thread. G/C's hire subs, you know this. If he wants to be a G/C he should learn what the prices are is his area and get a few quotes from a Drywall contractor. This is what GC's do. It sounds to me this guy might not even know what his prices are.
> 
> The incentive to hire subcontractors is either to reduce costs or to mitigate project risks. In this way, the general contractor receives the same or better service than the general contractor could have provided by itself, at lower overall risk. Many subcontractors do work for the same companies rather than different ones. This allows subcontractors to further specialize their skills.


The last project I did working for someone else was a Raymond James buildout in a Class A office building - corporate construction (sweet, sweet, sweet work and money!) The GC didn't know anything about anything so all he could do was threaten to fire people, berate and browbeat people and run his guys into the ground. He had a consistent crew of 4 guys who he made do all the grunt work. When it came to hanging and finishing he hired outside guys. He didn't invest in his core group - he didn't know HOW to invest in his core group. He never learned it so he didn't know what it would take to teach them. So they end up doing all the grunt work and watching outside guys collect dollars they could be collecting. And when the outside guys screw up - the core guys have to clean it up.

And prior to this small GC and this crew I worked for another small GC who's carpentry crew could do it all and that's who I want to model myself and my crew after. They were a construction SWAT team, Delta force, Wolfpack - whatever you want to call it!

I worked for a large commercial GC - I won't mention the name: Suffolk Construction - and they had a 2 year training program that exposed you to Project Management, Field Management and Estimating. They gave us HUGE binders filled with every form and contract you would need to run a $50m project. Basically, they didn't hide information in order to control us. They told us everything to make us better workers. Yes, they are also potentially creating competitors but that is a risk they are very, very comfortable taking.

The moral of the story is knowledge is power. Share the knowledge and share the power and people will appreciate you for it.

Build your people, expose them to more facets of the industry so that they aren't held hostage to their one trade.

The Bible says: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


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## gordie

Well I think this thread answers my questions about where capt,slim,and 2buc went


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## moore

moore said:


> The biggest mistake you made Is trying to do It yourself.


Knowledge .:thumbsup:


----------



## antoniosmall

moore said:


> Knowledge .:thumbsup:


I guess someone should have told you that when you wanted to get into the trade.


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> I guess someone should have told you that when you wanted to get into the trade.


I wish to hell they had! :yes:


----------



## gazman

MrWillys said:


> Let me apologize for the members of this forum for their ignorance and intolerance. Some here claim to be contractors and pay their people through misclassification of employees as independent contractor and yet can't see a real 1 horse outfit. I see someone who wants to learn and the tapers on this board are beating him up. YES, I said TAPERS because most of you wouldn't make it on my crew and you know it. While you're great finishers you've leaned so far to what you're good at you're not journeyman hangars with the exception of Gordie. Can you write code like HTML and PHP? You don't even know what it means but it is what has allowed you to beat this guy down. Stop it all and apologize for your actions. This same idiocracy may allow a bully a braggart to rule over the greatest nation in the world.


I am confused Scott. On one hand you are all about training and certification. I personally have trained 5 apprentices over my time and it's only through that training that these workers were able to complete their tasks. I don't think it's fair to the homeowner that this gentleman gets to practice on their home and is shown bythe photograph is delivering substandard work. No offence to this guy at all as you said he appears to be very intelligent.
I can certainly see a bias from your perspective that hangers are the better trade. I personally have been hanging and finishing and sweeping floors mind you since 1981. I I've done it all over my time from patch Ups 2 renovations new homes and major commercial projects. I have ran major commercial projects overseeing multiple gangs on wages doing all aspects of the trade including fire assembly and so forth. I have the utmost respect for you Scott but please get down off your high horse and look at the real world sometimes. We are all one trade .
I would ask you 1 more question would you like to see that quality of job on your daughter's home or would you prefer someone with the skill level like Mr Moore to be doing the finishing?


----------



## MrWillys

gazman said:


> I am confused Scott. On one hand you are all about training and certification. I personally have trained 5 apprentices over my time and it's only through that training that these workers were able to complete their tasks. I don't think it's fair to the homeowner that this gentleman gets to practice on their home and is shown bythe photograph is delivering substandard work. No offence to this guy at all as you said he appears to be very intelligent.
> I can certainly see a bias from your perspective that hangers are the better trade. I personally have been hanging and finishing and sweeping floors mind you since 1981. I I've done it all over my time from patch Ups 2 renovations new homes and major commercial projects. I have ran major commercial projects overseeing multiple gangs on wages doing all aspects of the trade including fire assembly and so forth. I have the utmost respect for you Scott but please get down off your high horse and look at the real world sometimes. We are all one trade .
> I would ask you 1 more question would you like to see that quality of job on your daughter's home or would you prefer someone with the skill level like Mr Moore to be doing the finishing?


It's quite simple Gary, we all started somewhere. I just don't see the need in berating new members. We all are not perfect. He will probably not come back. It's really sad that some have to be so negative.


----------



## gazman

MrWillys said:


> It's quite simple Gary, we all started somewhere. I just don't see the need in berating new members. We all are not perfect. He will probably not come back. It's really sad that some have to be so negative.


I agree Scott. Berating somebody is not on. And yes we all did start somewhere we had proper training I don't think taking out a job on somebody's home with no training is the right way to go about it.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> It's quite simple Gary, we all started somewhere. I just don't see the need in berating new members. We all are not perfect. He will probably not come back. It's really sad that some have to be so negative.


But this new member isn't a DRYWALL MAN. This site is for us. Not for do it your self home owners. I've never laid a brick in my life..but I've seen a billion bricks laid . I've seen the process . I can guarantee you if I laid a course Tomorrow. It would look better than this guy's first attempt at finishing drywall. I don't believe he's ever seen a finisher at work or ever been on site to see the process period. Any half a s s finisher knows you need to have mud directly under the tape for it to stick ...this dude couldn't even get that right!! He's full of chit Willy ! And you got sucked in by his bull chit . And btw you wouldn't last till lunch time with my hangers if you walked in with that egg hole hole maker 
.They would laugh you out to your truck .


----------



## moore

gazman said:


> I agree Scott. Berating somebody is not on. And yes we all did start somewhere we had proper training I don't think taking out a job on somebody's home with no training is the right way to go about it.


Gary. I never ment to berate anyone... I just thought this site was for drywall pros .


----------



## gazman

moore said:


> Gary. I never ment to berate anyone... I just thought this site was for drywall pros .


As far as I am concerned Rick you didn't berate anyone. I was agreeing with Scott that it is not on , not that I have seen it.


----------



## cazna

I seen the first pics and just thought oh [email protected]#k this I'm not here to explain that?


----------



## cazna

But then I checked back in :blink:


----------



## cazna

Yeah, I'm becoming the Capt :yes:, No worries brothers, Its just drywall.


----------



## antoniosmall

gazman said:


> I am confused Scott. On one hand you are all about training and certification. I personally have trained 5 apprentices over my time and it's only through that training that these workers were able to complete their tasks. I don't think it's fair to the homeowner that this gentleman gets to practice on their home and is shown bythe photograph is delivering substandard work. No offence to this guy at all as you said he appears to be very intelligent.
> I can certainly see a bias from your perspective that hangers are the better trade. I personally have been hanging and finishing and sweeping floors mind you since 1981. I I've done it all over my time from patch Ups 2 renovations new homes and major commercial projects. I have ran major commercial projects overseeing multiple gangs on wages doing all aspects of the trade including fire assembly and so forth. I have the utmost respect for you Scott but please get down off your high horse and look at the real world sometimes. We are all one trade .
> I would ask you 1 more question would you like to see that quality of job on your daughter's home or would you prefer someone with the skill level like Mr Moore to be doing the finishing?


This is the home of a personal friend of mines. I didn't intend on practicing on my friends mothers house. I really under-estimated the difficulty and didn't take the property steps with the proper tools. I made a mistake.

I'm already over budget and don't have the money to spend on a skilled tradesmen as I don't know any personally and the guy I hired to do the tile job screwed the pooch and started late. 

So I'm in a mess where i can't pay my way out so I thought I would work my way out with the help of books, videos and the advice of people who actually know what they are doing.

I honestly thought someone was going to recommend ripping out the drywall and starting over BUT luckily MrWillys gave me the necessary steps without the unnecessary negative feedback and emotions.

I've already at least $500 over budget and won't be getting it back or asking for it back. I'm literally paying my dues.

God is good and His mercy endures forever so I know as long as i keep trying I'll get out of this alive.


----------



## antoniosmall

moore said:


> But this new member isn't a DRYWALL MAN. This site is for us. Not for do it your self home owners. I've never laid a brick in my life..but I've seen a billion bricks laid . I've seen the process . I can guarantee you if I laid a course Tomorrow. It would look better than this guy's first attempt at finishing drywall. I don't believe he's ever seen a finisher at work or ever been on site to see the process period. Any half a s s finisher knows you need to have mud directly under the tape for it to stick ...this dude couldn't even get that right!! He's full of chit Willy ! And you got sucked in by his bull chit . And btw you wouldn't last till lunch time with my hangers if you walked in with that egg hole hole maker
> .They would laugh you out to your truck .


I hope this is proof enough for you, but I doubt it.


----------



## VANMAN

antoniosmall said:


> 1) If my abilities are limited or enhanced by someone else then it would suck to be me because as soon as that person decides to leave, overcharge or die then at best my value comes into question, I'm held hostage or at worst I become worthless. Sounds good as a bumper sticker but a horrible way to run a business. This thinking probably accounts for the HIGH failure rate of new companies in the industry.
> 
> 2) No need for a marketing system? Really? That type of thinking is probably another reason for the high failure rate in the industry.
> 
> 3) I'm going to fix the problem myself, God-willing, so I don't have to deal with being charged 3X's and/or dealing with unanswered phone calls, texts, and no-shows.
> 
> 4) I'd like to hear your opinion on why the number of skilled tradesmen is down.
> 
> 5) That's one G.C. with one problem that probably didn't take the necessary steps to correct. Books, videos, training, mentorship, more pay, etc.
> 
> 6) Your Youtube videos are getting very little views. I've watched drywall finishing videos with 100k views and your average is around 100. I think your headlines have something to do with it - not very descriptive.


U can read any books u want!
But u will never b a finisher as u r full o chit!:thumbsup:
G/c never in ur dreams!!
2 slag of Moore is something else and I think u need to go back 2 reading ur bible not on this site spouting chit!:thumbup:


----------



## MrWillys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDTHJ1mgqdY


----------



## MrWillys

Tennessee could do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gej8c_WWpWw


----------



## thefinisher

To the OP... I respect that you actually tried and admitted that you messed up. However, its never a good idea to come onto a professionals site and make snide remarks just because they said hire a professional. That was literally the best advice you could have gotten. Its not an insult really, we are trying to get you the best possible results. Given your skill level, it is reasonable to believe that you won't be able to provide a professional end result. This isn't a trade where you can just cut and measure.... it is a borderline art form and takes SEVERAL years of apprenticeship to be able to do it on your own at a consistently high level. The best you can expect from here on out is to hang your own job and find a finisher to do the rest for you. You just need to plan and budget accordingly. If $500 over budget is breaking the bank then you really need to re think some things. We aren't trying to be mean but you honestly need to get a pro to fix this. Over the next few years maybe you can try to learn how to do some basic things on your own house or something smaller like a patch.


----------



## endo_alley

If I were you I would just move to a new town and change my name. Run. That would be the easiest way out of that finishing mess.


----------



## MrWillys

MrWillys said:


> Tennessee could do it?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gej8c_WWpWw





thefinisher said:


> To the OP... I respect that you actually tried and admitted that you messed up. However, its never a good idea to come onto a professionals site and make snide remarks just because they said hire a professional. That was literally the best advice you could have gotten. Its not an insult really, we are trying to get you the best possible results. Given your skill level, it is reasonable to believe that you won't be able to provide a professional end result. This isn't a trade where you can just cut and measure.... it is a borderline art form and takes SEVERAL years of apprenticeship to be able to do it on your own at a consistently high level. The best you can expect from here on out is to hang your own job and find a finisher to do the rest for you. You just need to plan and budget accordingly. If $500 over budget is breaking the bank then you really need to re think some things. We aren't trying to be mean but you honestly need to get a pro to fix this. Over the next few years maybe you can try to learn how to do some basic things on your own house or something smaller like a patch.





endo_alley said:


> If I were you I would just move to a new town and change my name. Run. That would be the easiest way out of that finishing mess.


 Are you sure about that TF? Did you graduate from an accredited apprenticeship? I see clown posts.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> Are you sure about that TF? Did you graduate from an accredited apprenticeship? I see clown posts.


Accredited apprenticeship ? TF started when he was out of his diapers .... I'd say he's paid his dues. Your holier than thou union bull chit is getting on my nerves Scott. Some of us have jobs to do. Get over it!!!


----------



## MrWillys

moore said:


> Accredited apprenticeship ? TF started when he was out of his diapers .... I'd say he's paid his dues. Your holier than thou union bull chit is getting on my nerves Scott. Some of us have jobs to do. Get over it!!!


You don't know there are non union trade associations that have accredited training programs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Builders_and_Contractors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Electrical_Contractors

https://www.agc.org/learn/education-training


https://www.goweca.com/

The AGC contributes more to political campaigns than all trade unions combined. I'm shocked you're not aware of these associations fighting for lower standards on your behalf?


----------



## moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXmeBUZtdI8


----------



## moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPoYN6ZjE0c


----------



## moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTeEjTLHb90


----------



## moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlvNam2_hwI


----------



## moore

:devil3:.......:vs_lol:


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> MrWillys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that TF? Did you graduate from an accredited apprenticeship? I see clown posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Accredited apprenticeship ? TF started when he was out of his diapers .... I'd say he's paid his dues. Your holier than thou union bull chit is getting on my nerves Scott. Some of us have jobs to do. Get over it!!!
Click to expand...

Lol Moore standing up for me? You are getting weary Moore! This certainly is a trade where a "school" can't teach you. Being able to pass a test is one thing... being able to pass your work off in the real world is different. Moore, I reckon we need to go to school so we can be real finishers lol.


----------



## thefinisher

MrWillys said:


> MrWillys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tennessee could do it?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gej8c_WWpWw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thefinisher said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the OP... I respect that you actually tried and admitted that you messed up. However, its never a good idea to come onto a professionals site and make snide remarks just because they said hire a professional. That was literally the best advice you could have gotten. Its not an insult really, we are trying to get you the best possible results. Given your skill level, it is reasonable to believe that you won't be able to provide a professional end result. This isn't a trade where you can just cut and measure.... it is a borderline art form and takes SEVERAL years of apprenticeship to be able to do it on your own at a consistently high level. The best you can expect from here on out is to hang your own job and find a finisher to do the rest for you. You just need to plan and budget accordingly. If $500 over budget is breaking the bank then you really need to re think some things. We aren't trying to be mean but you honestly need to get a pro to fix this. Over the next few years maybe you can try to learn how to do some basic things on your own house or something smaller like a patch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> endo_alley said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you I would just move to a new town and change my name. Run. That would be the easiest way out of that finishing mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you sure about that TF? Did you graduate from an accredited apprenticeship? I see clown posts.
Click to expand...

No I did not graduate from an accredited apprenceship. My dad and mom taught me how to finish starting at 7 years old... don't know if they were "accredited" but they have license, insurance, and all that jazz...my dad finished every day from the time he was 15 to the time he was 45. He is about to turn 60 now and still puts the stilts on and grabs his hawk and knife when he needs to. Does that qualify? I can literally finish anything and can tell you just about anything about residential Drywall.... by choice. I despise commercial work and never bid it as it's a complete pain. I can also hang when needed but I'm not a hanger by trade. I can appreciate you being "nice" to the OP but he has no idea what he is doing. I don't see you giving him any flack for not being "accredited" yet. And that is to be a GC... not a Finisher! Do you even check to see if there are any accreditations to be had in the states of the members you quote? In SC you literally can just get a license and insurance and you are in business.... that doesn't mean squat. My accreditation comes when you walk into one of my jobs or see my work. There is a reason why I am charging more than ever right now and are slammed with work.


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> Lol Moore standing up for me? You are getting weary Moore! This certainly is a trade where a "school" can't teach you. Being able to pass a test is one thing... being able to pass your work off in the real world is different. Moore, I reckon we need to go to school so we can be real finishers lol.



Hell yeah ! I'll stand up fer ya!! You came up just like I did. It's In our blood! We don't need no fancy learnin !! 

Spotting nails at the age of 8 was our start . I've been in drywall school for the last 31 years ! Why should I take classes now?? 

If I were to forget half of what I know I think I could still do pretty well. :whistling2:


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> No I did not graduate from an accredited apprenceship. My dad and mom taught me how to finish starting at 7 years old... don't know if they were "accredited" but they have license, insurance, and all that jazz...my dad finished every day from the time he was 15 to the time he was 45. He is about to turn 60 now and still puts the stilts on and grabs his hawk and knife when he needs to. Does that qualify? I can literally finish anything and can tell you just about anything about residential Drywall.... by choice. I despise commercial work and never bid it as it's a complete pain. I can also hang when needed but I'm not a hanger by trade. I can appreciate you being "nice" to the OP but he has no idea what he is doing. I don't see you giving him any flack for not being "accredited" yet. And that is to be a GC... not a Finisher! Do you even check to see if there are any accreditations to be had in the states of the members you quote? In SC you literally can just get a license and insurance and you are in business.... that doesn't mean squat. My accreditation comes when you walk into one of my jobs or see my work. There is a reason why I am charging more than ever right now and are slammed with work.


Yeah .....But you ain't bonified :whistling2:


----------



## krafty

Man I wish I was bonafide

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

krafty said:


> Man I wish I was bonafide
> 
> Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


How would that help you? You'd still be a drywaller!! :yes:


----------



## krafty

Oh yeah, well i'll be spackletacular 

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


----------



## MrWillys

thefinisher said:


> No I did not graduate from an accredited apprenceship. My dad and mom taught me how to finish starting at 7 years old... don't know if they were "accredited" but they have license, insurance, and all that jazz...my dad finished every day from the time he was 15 to the time he was 45. He is about to turn 60 now and still puts the stilts on and grabs his hawk and knife when he needs to. Does that qualify? I can literally finish anything and can tell you just about anything about residential Drywall.... by choice. I despise commercial work and never bid it as it's a complete pain. I can also hang when needed but I'm not a hanger by trade. I can appreciate you being "nice" to the OP but he has no idea what he is doing. I don't see you giving him any flack for not being "accredited" yet. And that is to be a GC... not a Finisher! Do you even check to see if there are any accreditations to be had in the states of the members you quote? In SC you literally can just get a license and insurance and you are in business.... that doesn't mean squat. My accreditation comes when you walk into one of my jobs or see my work. There is a reason why I am charging more than ever right now and are slammed with work.


 So do any of you belong or participate in trade associations? Your training still qualifies as Apprenticeship. Just not in a modern sense as outlined by government training regulations that both union and non-union are regulated to.
Some of you are way to sensitive. I support everyone who wants to build. I also loved commercial for the challenge.


----------



## moore

You here that TF !! Your just an apprentice !!! :vs_lol:


You ain't bonafide!! :whistling2::vs_whistle:


----------



## MrWillys

moore said:


> You here that TF !! Your just an apprentice !!! :vs_lol:
> 
> 
> You ain't bonafide!! :whistling2::vs_whistle:


CONTEXT Rick, I know it's difficult sometimes but reading comprehension can be achieved. You remind me of Bazooka Joe.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> You remind me of Bazooka Joe.



I take that as a compliment !! :thumbsup:


You do know Joe Is a union man?


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

MrWillys said:


> Tennessee could do it?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gej8c_WWpWw




Clown post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krafty

Has anybody fixed that guys work yet?

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

krafty said:


> Has anybody fixed that guys work yet?
> 
> Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


He's waiting on a union guy. It might be done this time next year. :vs_lol:


----------



## MrWillys

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Clown post
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.


Naw....You took that title a long time ago!


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> You here that TF !! Your just an apprentice !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ain't bonafide!!


Yep... just an apprentice. Wonder what I will get taught tomorrow?


----------



## moore

thefinisher said:


> Yep... just an apprentice. Wonder what I will get taught tomorrow?


I'll show you what I can .. :thumbsup:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

Who dat clown???
View attachment 31362



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krafty

Whatchu talkin bout Willy's 

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


----------



## MrWillys

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Who dat clown???
> View attachment 31362
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A professional forum?


----------



## moore

When It matters.


----------



## MrWillys

I guess it didn't matter in this thread and it was better to run the OP off? Have a good day.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> I guess it didn't matter in this thread and it was better to run the OP off? Have a good day.


In some Professional forums This thread wouldn't have made It past the second post.


----------



## cazna

This threads like a bad smell that wont leave, I'm going start one and call it, How to do i fix this thread mess, I know lets all over to the bbq thread and get on it :yes:


----------



## Mr.Brightstar

Poor, Mr. Willys. He plays the clown so well. Smart guy, but suffering from what science has proven as a mental disorder. Liberalism.


----------



## Aussiecontractor

His a nice guy he knows quite a bit of stuff 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## endo_alley

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Poor, Mr. Willys. He plays the clown so well. Smart guy, but suffering from what science has proven as a mental disorder. Liberalism.


It's good to see things from different points of view. Otherwise people in a small group tend to suffer from group think, and confirmation bias.


----------



## gordie

MrWillys is from what I can tell a good guy I think he brings a lot to the table here at DWT. he's dead wrong on this one lol but that ain't no Thang.


----------



## MrWillys

gordie said:


> MrWillys is from what I can tell a good guy I think he brings a lot to the table here at DWT. he's dead wrong on this one lol but that ain't no Thang.


So we shouldn't promote learning of our craft? Should we call out all who want to learn? Beginners and apprentices aren't allowed?

Some just have a union bias and I get that. I will not apologize for making a damn good living. Some of you claim to be drywall magnates and contractors who have no employees. in my mind you are no better than the OP of this thread who came here to learn and was chastised instead.

If being pissed off that neither party will pass E-Verify and not approving of a candidate running a platform similar to Hitler and Castro makes me a liberal I'll wear that badge with honor.

Off to LA for a 3 year old birthday. Scotty out!


----------



## endo_alley

"running a platform similar to Hitler and Castro " As far as Castro goes, Bernie Sanders is the candidate whose views most closely align with Castro. Didn't Sanders honeymoon in Communist Soviet Union? As far as Hitler's Third Reich (thousand year despotism) with a key feature of anti Semitism, the European Union (oddly) is the movement that most resembles it.
Both Hilary and Trump remind me of Banana Republic puppet candidates. Hillary and Bill consider themselves above the laws and accepted rules of conduct. Provided they continue to pretend to look after the populist interests of the perpetually downtrodden without actually helping them. And Trump rides on some weird Cult of Personality wave. And doesn't seem to need to waste his precious time getting familiar with the issues of the day.


----------



## cazna

MrWillys said:


> Some of you claim to be drywall magnates and contractors who have no employees. in my mind you are no better than the OP of this thread who came here to learn and was chastised instead.


 Oh Is that right, I'm a contractor with no employees, Ive kept out of this, But if someone hasn't got a clue on how to fix that then this place is not for them, The mud buckets, U tube, Many other how too and readable things could have answered that before bothering others, That's the problem with the world today, People use to try and fix there own stuff, Instinct was a common trait, Not bothering people till you really had to, Then when you ask for help you can say ive tried this, And that, So what next please. 

Its a bit hard not to take your comment as an insult.

Here, Have a bigger shovel for that hole your digging.


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> Oh Is that right, I'm a contractor with no employees, Ive kept out of this, But if someone hasn't got a clue on how to fix that then this place is not for them, The mud buckets, U tube, Many other how too and readable things could have answered that before bothering others, That's the problem with the world today, People use to try and fix there own stuff, Instinct was a common trait, Not bothering people till you really had to, Then when you ask for help you can say ive tried this, And that, So what next please.
> 
> Its a bit hard not to take your comment as an insult.
> 
> Here, Have a bigger shovel for that hole your digging.


It's a California thang Cazna . Most of them are assholes! :yes:


----------



## cazna

Actually before dwt naive me thought that was Americans for you. But no not the case. The few ruin it for the majority. Like most things in life.


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> Actually before dwt naive me thought that was Americans for you. But no not the case. The few ruin it for the majority. Like most things in life.


I had to think about that fer a second ! :blink:,,,,,,


----------



## cazna

moore said:


> I had to think about that fer a second ! :blink:,,,,,,


 Your all good bro, Nearly 10,000 posts


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> Your all good bro, Nearly 10,000 posts


Post Don't mean nothing...Just a bunch of chit talking. But you did promise me a blow up sheep doll!! :whistling2: I could start a mesh thread and hit 10,000 tonight! :vs_rocking_banana: :thumbsup:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

Wasn't there a east coast/ west coast feud between hip hop gangsters in the 90's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Wasn't there a east coast/ west coast feud between hip hop gangsters in the 90's?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Biggie and tupoc ..Both dead!!! and neither one was union!


----------



## MrWillys

cazna said:


> Oh Is that right, I'm a contractor with no employees, Ive kept out of this, But if someone hasn't got a clue on how to fix that then this place is not for them, The mud buckets, U tube, Many other how too and readable things could have answered that before bothering others, That's the problem with the world today, People use to try and fix there own stuff, Instinct was a common trait, Not bothering people till you really had to, Then when you ask for help you can say ive tried this, And that, So what next please.
> 
> Its a bit hard not to take your comment as an insult.
> 
> Here, Have a bigger shovel for that hole your digging.


You're taking me out of context and don't understand the issue's here in the US. I have no problem with a one horse outfit that plays by the rules. However, here in the US they circumvent US labor laws and misclassify employees as independent contractor to avoid paying proper taxes and insurance. 

Example, Joe Blow gets a contract to do the drywall on a house. He hires Bob and Jose to hang it and provides scaffold, screws, drywall and cornerbead. Bob and Jose have no contractors license but are paid as if they do in a lump sum without with holding of proper taxes and insurance. If Bob or Jose get hurt on the job there's nothing to cover the injury and they become wards of the state and honest peoples taxes pay for their care.

This cheating of the system is a major problem here in the US and drives down prices for those that participate in this illegal method that they later complain about which is truly ironic.


----------



## cazna

Oh I see, I take back what I said and your right, I don't understand the issues, Hence why ive kept out and should have stayed out of this conversation, Ive always enjoyed your input and pics anyway, Don't do an oldtimer and Elvis has left the building now will you. As forest gump says, Sh!t happens :thumbsup:


----------



## MrWillys

moore said:


> It's a California thang Cazna . Most of them are assholes! :yes:


 Really? So playing by the rules makes me a name? Are you in 3rd grade?


----------



## VANMAN

U need a good bitch fest!:thumbup:


----------



## Kiwiman

I just can't believe all you guys have menstrual cycles at the same time :shutup:


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> Really? So playing by the rules makes me a name? Are you in 3rd grade?


Never made it that far.


----------



## Mr.Brightstar




----------



## endo_alley

cazna said:


> Oh Is that right, I'm a contractor with no employees, Ive kept out of this, But if someone hasn't got a clue on how to fix that then this place is not for them, The mud buckets, U tube, Many other how too and readable things could have answered that before bothering others, That's the problem with the world today, People use to try and fix there own stuff, Instinct was a common trait, Not bothering people till you really had to, Then when you ask for help you can say ive tried this, And that, So what next please.
> 
> Its a bit hard not to take your comment as an insult.
> 
> Here, Have a bigger shovel for that hole your digging.


From what I have read, this guy wants to fix the mess he made without paying out any money. Now with me and the people I work with, if we make a mistake, we fix it regardless of the price. I think that is what is catching in everybody's craw. Man up and fix your bad work no matter what it takes. And don't tell someone you can do something when you really can't do it. We all bid against idiots who make a mess of things if they get the job. My guess is that there were other talented competing contractors who lost this job to someone (cheaper?) who is not talented. We have all been there. That is why we are not very forgiving. A guy lied about his qualifications. Others who maybe lost the job did not lie about their qualifications. They could have done a fine job. But the idiot gets the job and wants us to tell him how he can fix it on the cheap and retain his profit.


----------



## D A Drywall

endo_alley said:


> From what I have read, this guy wants to fix the mess he made without paying out any money. Now with me and the people I work with, if we make a mistake, we fix it regardless of the price. I think that is what is catching in everybody's craw. Man up and fix your bad work no matter what it takes. And don't tell someone you can do something when you really can't do it. We all bid against idiots who make a mess of things if they get the job. My guess is that there were other talented competing contractors who lost this job to someone (cheaper?) who is not talented. We have all been there. That is why we are not very forgiving. A guy lied about his qualifications. Others who maybe lost the job did not lie about their qualifications. They could have done a fine job. But the idiot gets the job and wants us to tell him how he can fix it on the cheap and retain his profit.


Well said Endo_alley.


----------



## antoniosmall

endo_alley said:


> From what I have read, this guy wants to fix the mess he made without paying out any money. Now with me and the people I work with, if we make a mistake, we fix it regardless of the price. I think that is what is catching in everybody's craw. Man up and fix your bad work no matter what it takes. And don't tell someone you can do something when you really can't do it. We all bid against idiots who make a mess of things if they get the job. My guess is that there were other talented competing contractors who lost this job to someone (cheaper?) who is not talented. We have all been there. That is why we are not very forgiving. A guy lied about his qualifications. Others who maybe lost the job did not lie about their qualifications. They could have done a fine job. But the idiot gets the job and wants us to tell him how he can fix it on the cheap and retain his profit.


Do you think it's a coincidence that all of your ASSUMPTIONS bolster your complaint?

I think it's the fear or insanity that makes people territorial.

Here is something you should consider 1) there is more construction work for any one person to ever do period 2) if someone is eating the food off your plate, stop crying and get better. Become smarter, stronger and/or faster. Advertise more, network more, learn more, share more. 

If you became better you wouldn't have so much time to be bitter. You'd be either resting to get ready for the next work day or spending your money on the people and things you love. 

Become a content creator - get a $500 camera a $150 tripod and set it up at your next job from start to finish. Show people how good you are on Youtube and if you really are good you will be rewarded for your excellence.

Think about it - do you think Tom Cruise has time to complain about the kids from the school play? "Ew, look at Bobby, he just took that role from me. That school should have hired a real actor like myself. Look at him giving away the trade for free!"


----------



## gordie

13$ 6 pak


----------



## endo_alley

antoniosmall said:


> Do you think it's a coincidence that all of your ASSUMPTIONS bolster your complaint?
> 
> I think it's the fear or insanity that makes people territorial.
> 
> Here is something you should consider 1) there is more construction work for any one person to ever do period 2) if someone is eating the food off your plate, stop crying and get better. Become smarter, stronger and/or faster. Advertise more, network more, learn more, share more.
> 
> If you became better you wouldn't have so much time to be bitter. You'd be either resting to get ready for the next work day or spending your money on the people and things you love.
> 
> Become a content creator - get a $500 camera a $150 tripod and set it up at your next job from start to finish. Show people how good you are on Youtube and if you really are good you will be rewarded for your excellence.
> 
> Think about it - do you think Tom Cruise has time to complain about the kids from the school play? "Ew, look at Bobby, he just took that role from me. That school should have hired a real actor like myself. Look at him giving away the trade for free!"


Tom Cruise spends his time trying to defend Scientology, and wondering why nobody wants him to star in movies any more.
But this post is about you doing a horrible job and not wanting to fix it properly because it might cost too much. You can get a fancy tripod and camera and take photos of your work and it won't make it look any better. I don't have time to do YouTube videos. How is that rewarding anyhow when it cuts into one's productivity? Interesting idea though. But we are too busy getting it done.


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> Do you think it's a coincidence that all of your ASSUMPTIONS bolster your complaint?
> 
> I think it's the fear or insanity that makes people territorial.
> 
> Here is something you should consider 1) there is more construction work for any one person to ever do period 2) if someone is eating the food off your plate, stop crying and get better. Become smarter, stronger and/or faster. Advertise more, network more, learn more, share more.
> 
> If you became better you wouldn't have so much time to be bitter. You'd be either resting to get ready for the next work day or spending your money on the people and things you love.
> 
> Become a content creator - get a $500 camera a $150 tripod and set it up at your next job from start to finish. Show people how good you are on Youtube and if you really are good you will be rewarded for your excellence.
> 
> Think about it - do you think Tom Cruise has time to complain about the kids from the school play? "Ew, look at Bobby, he just took that role from me. That school should have hired a real actor like myself. Look at him giving away the trade for free!"


Your a hoot dude!! :vs_lol:


----------



## moore

endo_alley said:


> Tom Cruise spends his time trying to defend Scientology, and wondering why nobody wants him to star in movies any more.
> But this post is about you doing a horrible job and not wanting to fix it properly because it might cost too much. You can get a fancy tripod and camera and take photos of your work and it won't make it look any better. I don't have time to do YouTube videos. How is that rewarding anyhow when it cuts into one's productivity? Interesting idea though. But we are too busy getting it done.


Of all actors ...he picks Tom cruise? .:blink:


----------



## antoniosmall

endo_alley said:


> Tom Cruise spends his time trying to defend Scientology, and wondering why nobody wants him to star in movies any more.
> But this post is about you doing a horrible job and not wanting to fix it properly because it might cost too much. You can get a fancy tripod and camera and take photos of your work and it won't make it look any better. I don't have time to do YouTube videos. How is that rewarding anyhow when it cuts into one's productivity? Interesting idea though. But we are too busy getting it done.


So basically you're so busy "getting it done" you have time to MISCHARACTERIZE people and situations in order to justify your incessant WHINING AND COMPLAINING about external threats to your income - illegals, DIYer and wannabees.

Productivity? You're so inundated with work you can't set up a camera and press record?

Look, don't put together a marketing system BUT while you're busy NOT actually running a fully FUNCTIONING business don't complain about those who do.

I messed up - I'm going to fix it.

Actually, from the advice that MrWillys gave me my results have improved tremendously. I went to the Ames store and bought the topping compound and it worked like a charm. They also rent the electric sanders for $44 a day. That good people is what I consider a "twofer". Also, there was a job board at the Ames store with tons of people looking for finishers. I'm going buy some drywall set it up in my garage and get my skills up so I can go after some of these jobs! Life is good and I have to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU MrWillys!


----------



## D A Drywall

MrWillys said:


> Go buy a box of topping mud and a paddle to spin it up. Put it in a bucket and add a pint + of clean water and mix it. Coat the entire surface and don't worry about tool marks. once dry sand and repeat until smooth. If that is a tape blister in the second picture it must be cut out and repaired. Put water on top of the mud in the bucket to store. Pour water out and remix next day. use a 12" knife with 1 or 2 fingers.


Wow if this is all it took to make Antoniosmall a finisher maybe MrWillys can write me a paragraph that will make me a competent competitive hanger.


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> So basically you're so busy "getting it done" you have time to MISCHARACTERIZE people and situations in order to justify your incessant WHINING AND COMPLAINING about external threats to your income - illegals, DIYer and wannabees.
> 
> Productivity? You're so inundated with work you can't set up a camera and press record?
> 
> Look, don't put together a marketing system BUT while you're busy NOT actually running a fully FUNCTIONING business don't complain about those who do.
> 
> I messed up - I'm going to fix it.
> 
> Actually, from the advice that MrWillys gave me my results have improved tremendously. I went to the Ames store and bought the topping compound and it worked like a charm. They also rent the electric sanders for $44 a day. That good people is what I consider a "twofer". Also, there was a job board at the Ames store with tons of people looking for finishers. I'm going buy some drywall set it up in my garage and get my skills up so I can go after some of these jobs! Life is good and I have to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU MrWillys!


Willy is a hanger..


----------



## antoniosmall

D A Drywall said:


> Wow if this is all it took to make Antoniosmall a finisher maybe MrWillys can write me a paragraph that will make me a competent competitive hanger.


While you might not like it - it doesn't take a lifetime to learn a trade.


----------



## endo_alley

antoniosmall said:


> So basically you're so busy "getting it done" you have time to MISCHARACTERIZE people and situations in order to justify your incessant WHINING AND COMPLAINING about external threats to your income - illegals, DIYer and wannabees.
> 
> Productivity? You're so inundated with work you can't set up a camera and press record?
> 
> Look, don't put together a marketing system BUT while you're busy NOT actually running a fully FUNCTIONING business don't complain about those who do.
> 
> I messed up - I'm going to fix it.
> 
> Actually, from the advice that MrWillys gave me my results have improved tremendously. I went to the Ames store and bought the topping compound and it worked like a charm. They also rent the electric sanders for $44 a day. That good people is what I consider a "twofer". Also, there was a job board at the Ames store with tons of people looking for finishers. I'm going buy some drywall set it up in my garage and get my skills up so I can go after some of these jobs! Life is good and I have to say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU MrWillys!


"your incessant WHINING AND COMPLAINING " Actually, I take a little time off from whining and complaining to eat lunch and dinner, and to sleep a few hours at night. But other than that, yeah, it's incessant WHINING AND COMPLAINING . But hey, I'm good at it.


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> While you might not like it - it doesn't take a lifetime to learn a trade.


I spent the last 30 years. To be good at one trade ...so I guess your right?


----------



## thefinisher

This guy is awesome... not too many pros have time to set up a camera and film themselves lol. Wonder how all those people used to do it before YouTube? Yep, I'm going to get a lot of business from YouTube, I can see it now. Hell, I have a nice website and pay for SEO work to keep us on first page of Google... just about a waste of money unless I want to do patches lol. Don't get any calls from builders this way. Builders call us because they heard about us. I should go ask my finishers why they don't film themselves lol


----------



## fr8train

antoniosmall said:


> While you might not like it - it doesn't take a lifetime to learn a trade.




No it doesn't take a lifetime. However, it does take time. So you have two choices. 

1. Learn to do it yourself. This you tried, learned you were in over your head, and went looking for easy/ free advice. Which was given "you're in over your head/skill level, hire a pro"
Or
2. Find someone to show/teach you how. This takes time. 

You commented earlier that you underestimated the difficulty. You also complained that "professionals" overcharge etc etc. What we pros do is make it look easy when it's not. that is why we "overcharge". 

So please excuse some of us when someone asks for a bailout on something that we have put it the sweat and time to learn. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## keke

moore said:


> Here's one with 161,384 views . This one may help you out.
> 
> Since the views Is what really matters!!!:yes:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAd2Wcp1f_8


and this it's a good 1 too 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgUdq2Bhq8s


----------



## cazna

That takes the cake that one does, Its awesome it really is


----------



## endo_alley

antoniosmall said:


> While you might not like it - it doesn't take a lifetime to learn a trade.


I've noticed that with cubs learning the finishing trade, you can tell fairly early who is going to be good and who isn't. It takes a certain amount of "eye to hand coordination", "attention to detail" , and a "stick to it" work ethic. We usually set things up to where if a laborer or helper
wishes to learn finishing we give them a partial day of laboring work. When they complete that they can spend the rest of the afternoon helping a journeyman. The faster they complete the labor work, the sooner they can do finishing. Some apprentices seem to lack the presence of mind to concentrate on the mud they are spreading on the walls. Others seem like naturals. And you want to show them a lot right off the bat.


----------



## Aussiecontractor

thefinisher said:


> This guy is awesome... not too many pros have time to set up a camera and film themselves lol. Wonder how all those people used to do it before YouTube? Yep, I'm going to get a lot of business from YouTube, I can see it now. Hell, I have a nice website and pay for SEO work to keep us on first page of Google... just about a waste of money unless I want to do patches lol. Don't get any calls from builders this way. Builders call us because they heard about us. I should go ask my finishers why they don't film themselves lol




So true ......websites are only good for renovations,patch work,bulkheads and tyre kickers everyday you might get builder once a year 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## antoniosmall

fr8train said:


> No it doesn't take a lifetime. However, it does take time. So you have two choices.
> 
> 1. Learn to do it yourself. This you tried, learned you were in over your head, and went looking for easy/ free advice. Which was given "you're in over your head/skill level, hire a pro"
> Or
> 2. Find someone to show/teach you how. This takes time.
> 
> You commented earlier that you underestimated the difficulty. You also complained that "professionals" overcharge etc etc. What we pros do is make it look easy when it's not. that is why we "overcharge".
> 
> So please excuse some of us when someone asks for a bailout on something that we have put it the sweat and time to learn.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look, if you want to hoard your information or think someone has to pay you for advice that's your business model and I won't argue with you.

The advice I got and the books i've read and the videos I've watch helped me produce these results.

What do you think?


----------



## MrWillys

Aussiecontractor said:


> So true ......websites are only good for renovations,patch work,bulkheads and tyre kickers everyday you might get builder once a year
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 In today's world of downloading drawings, spec's and contracts I'd say company websites are very important. For a small time independent who goes by word of mouth not so much.

Computers are entrenched in our lives today and the proof is those of you who post from you phones. If I'm going to type it is sitting in front of my 24" screen but I'm old school. My fingers are too big for my phone and I prefer a keyboard.

While I no longer do drywall my tuning is very much web based. I do run 6 Ebay auctions which is a big draw but to chastise someone for having a website is a silly fools game in todays market. No websites limits you to a smaller market.

My brother is VP of this company and I'm sure they get a few hits daily.

http://petrainc.net/

No webspace = tiny market share.


----------



## antoniosmall

What have I learned from my first finishing job?

1) joint mud and topping mud serve two different purposes - don't use all purpose throughout the process.

2) It's a multi-layered process. 

3) Pay attention to the corners.

4) Sanding creates miracles.

5) I like small knives for patch work, I like large knives for large areas, I like trowels for going from bottom to top.

6) A little dab will do ya.

7) You have to mix your mud until it looks like icing and you want to eat it.

8) Try to use long continuous motions starting from dead ends.

9) Working clean is not that hard. 

10) I hate the chalky feel of sanding sometimes.

11) Two fingers on the back of the knife are important and not just for style.

12) Can't wait until my next finishing job.


----------



## MrWillys

fr8train said:


> No it doesn't take a lifetime. However, it does take time. So you have two choices.
> 
> 1. Learn to do it yourself. This you tried, learned you were in over your head, and went looking for easy/ free advice. Which was given "you're in over your head/skill level, hire a pro"
> Or
> 2. Find someone to show/teach you how. This takes time.
> 
> You commented earlier that you underestimated the difficulty. You also complained that "professionals" overcharge etc etc. What we pros do is make it look easy when it's not. that is why we "overcharge".
> 
> So please excuse some of us when someone asks for a bailout on something that we have put it the sweat and time to learn.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm disappointed in you for this post. A moderator should be supportive of those who want to learn. Drywall is bigger than most think and greater than those who accept misclassification of employees as independent contractor as being normal. His post above is proof that he got it done with a small amount of advice.


----------



## antoniosmall

MrWillys, my deepest appreciation to you for your simple help that went a very long way! God Bless you!


----------



## fr8train

I've said my piece. Not gonna argue with you. But, if you follow the rules of the site....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> Look, if you want to hoard your information or think someone has to pay you for advice that's your business model and I won't argue with you.
> 
> The advice I got and the books i've read and the videos I've watch helped me produce these results.
> 
> What do you think?


Wait a second....Let me go grab my 500 watt Halogen !!! :whistling2:


----------



## moore

antoniosmall said:


> What have I learned from my first finishing job?
> 
> 1) joint mud and topping mud serve two different purposes - don't use all purpose throughout the process.
> 
> 2) It's a multi-layered process.
> 
> 3) Pay attention to the corners.
> 
> 4) Sanding creates miracles.
> 
> 5) I like small knives for patch work, I like large knives for large areas, I like trowels for going from bottom to top.
> 
> 6) A little dab will do ya.
> 
> 7) You have to mix your mud until it looks like icing and you want to eat it.
> 
> 8) Try to use long continuous motions starting from dead ends.
> 
> 9) Working clean is not that hard.
> 
> 10) I hate the chalky feel of sanding sometimes.
> 
> 11) Two fingers on the back of the knife are important and not just for style.
> 
> 12) Can't wait until my next finishing job.


.....:vs_lol:
:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:


----------



## fr8train

moore said:


> Wait a second....Let me go grab my 500 watt Halogen !!! :whistling2:




"If you can't see it from 6' away under natural lighting, it doesn't exist"

Right Moore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

fr8train said:


> "If you can't see it from 6' away under natural lighting, it doesn't exist"
> 
> Right Moore?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The way I see It . Most homeowners will never light check their walls and ceilings with a 500 watt Halogen ..But I did !! So I think I'm good to go! :thumbsup: 

God's light Is another story... I'm sure all of us have stood back a time or two and thought....Oh chit! Did I do dat???


----------



## keke

antoniosmall said:


> The advice I got and the books i've read and the videos I've watch helped me produce these results.
> What do you think?


these 2 pics are from the same wall-before and after-the result. it's awesome if you compare the pics but my question for you is

how did you fix it? 
please give me even the small details

how come you didn't get the same result first time ?


----------



## moore

keke said:


> these 2 pics are from the same wall-before and after-the result. it's awesome if you compare the pics but my question for you is
> 
> how did you fix it?
> please give me even the small details
> 
> how come you didn't get the same result first time ?


I see where your going with this. And your probably right! :yes:


----------



## D A Drywall

fr8train said:


> "If you can't see it from 6' away under natural lighting, it doesn't exist" Right Moore? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've got a 12' ceiling coming up next week. I probably won't even have to sand something that high??


----------



## MrWillys

moore said:


> .....:vs_lol:
> :vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:


Haters gotta hate


----------



## gordie

MrWillys said:


> Haters gotta hate


It is a little funny haha


----------



## endo_alley

MrWillys said:


> Haters gotta hate


In our crew, the guys would not cut you any slack for sins of workmanship far less than this (previous photo) in scope. It's a mean world out there. Better get used to it. You are not a hater when you tell someone they would be best off learning from someone who knows the trade. If all we do is massage someone's self esteem, we are setting them up for some very expensive call backs and profit losses in the future. I've never got a "participation badge" from a home owner or general contractor.


----------



## fr8train

antoniosmall said:


> Look, if you want to hoard your information or think someone has to pay you for advice that's your business model and I won't argue with you.
> 
> 
> 
> The advice I got and the books i've read and the videos I've watch helped me produce these results.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?




I believe you misunderstand. Learning from books and vids is all well and good, but that's theory. Applying that theory is another story. 

It's a bit like learning baseball by reading about it. Understanding how the game is played and being able to I play the game are two different things. Sounds easy enough, but it isn't.

The guys on here have played the game. So when other users suggest another approach, they understand it and can apply it. They already have the theory and have applied it. 

Let's say you are a web developer. You've put in your time and effort into learning all the various languages that apply. Html, java, JavaScript, CSS3, Flash, Silverlight, and AJAX, too name a few. Then you learn the different platforms and browsers that said code will work in. Unix, Linux, Windows, Apple, BSD, Novell. Also, the various database architectures out there. And where each combination succeeds or fails. 

I come to you as someone who read a book about coding and web development. I took on a paying job. And say to you, I tried to code this, and I failed. What did I do wrong. Oh by the way, I don't want to pay to fix this, but I'm already past my scheduled date and budget.

What advice would you give me?

Most sound advice I can think of. Pay me or someone else who knows what is going on to fix it.

That's the advice that was given.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> Haters gotta hate


My Guess Is he hired someone to fix his chit!! But He'll never admit to It! :whistling2:


----------



## moore

Since this Is basically the wall of shame thread.. 


The H/O Framed this one himself .


----------



## moore

And he wired It too!!!


----------



## antoniosmall

keke said:


> these 2 pics are from the same wall-before and after-the result. it's awesome if you compare the pics but my question for you is
> 
> how did you fix it?
> please give me even the small details
> 
> how come you didn't get the same result first time ?


How did I fix it? I went back in there with the advice of MrWillys, watched a couple of videos over, prayed to God for help and went to work. I think I put on two more coats before my final sanding so I have a thick layer of compound.

Why didn't I get the same results the first time? I already mentioned it I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't mix the pre-mixed mud when I first applied it - I just took it straight out of the bucket and applied it to the walls. 

If you read my lessons learned post you will see the small details that I used and learned.


----------



## antoniosmall

moore said:


> My Guess Is he hired someone to fix his chit!! But He'll never admit to It! :whistling2:


This has got to be the best compliment I have ever had for my work!

Thanks.

I actually moved on to a tile job where the homeowner is kicking my butt.

I learned two things about problems they either make you dig deeper or they make you run. I can't run, so I just digged (dug) deeper.


----------



## antoniosmall

fr8train said:


> I believe you misunderstand. Learning from books and vids is all well and good, but that's theory. Applying that theory is another story.
> 
> It's a bit like learning baseball by reading about it. Understanding how the game is played and being able to I play the game are two different things. Sounds easy enough, but it isn't.
> 
> The guys on here have played the game. So when other users suggest another approach, they understand it and can apply it. They already have the theory and have applied it.
> 
> Let's say you are a web developer. You've put in your time and effort into learning all the various languages that apply. Html, java, JavaScript, CSS3, Flash, Silverlight, and AJAX, too name a few. Then you learn the different platforms and browsers that said code will work in. Unix, Linux, Windows, Apple, BSD, Novell. Also, the various database architectures out there. And where each combination succeeds or fails.
> 
> I come to you as someone who read a book about coding and web development. I took on a paying job. And say to you, I tried to code this, and I failed. What did I do wrong. Oh by the way, I don't want to pay to fix this, but I'm already past my scheduled date and budget.
> 
> What advice would you give me?
> 
> Most sound advice I can think of. Pay me or someone else who knows what is going on to fix it.
> 
> That's the advice that was given.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the question was posed to me and I didn't know the answer I would say 1) get some red bull 2) find the nearest university library with the most books on your subject - search for the answer 3) find a computer science professor and ask him the question, 4) find that professors best student and see if he will help you, 5) watch vidoes on Youtube 6) go to Lynda.com and see if there is anything there 7) go to Barnes and Noble to see if there are any books there that address your problem. 8) search stackoverflow.com 9) if no question similarly answered on stackoverflow.com then pose the quesiton 10) go to the package manager like getcomposer.org to see if what you're trying to build has already been built.

Here is why you should never hoard anything, let alone information: 

Proverbs 11:24 - One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

Luke 6:31 - Due unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Wisdom that has served mankind well for thousands of years.


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## moore

.......


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> Proverbs 11:24 - One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.
> 
> Luke 6:31 - Due unto others as you would have them do unto you.
> 
> Wisdom that has served mankind well for thousands of years.



The Bible is a book of Jewish fairy tales. You do know this? Right?


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## antoniosmall

moore said:


> The Bible is a book of Jewish fairy tales. You do know this? Right?


For some strange reasons billions of people seem to like it and for thousands of years.


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## moore

antoniosmall said:


> For some strange reasons billions of people seem to like it and for thousands of years.



That's called brainwash !


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## cazna

moore said:


> The Bible is a book of Jewish fairy tales. You do know this? Right?


Wasn't Albert Einstein's take on the bible its nothing more than fables of mans weaknesses.

Millions maybe billions of people have been murdered in the name of religion.

I went to a catholic school, Everyone in my class and most classes just came away confused by the whole set up.

Tolerance of all races religions and people
Do unto others bla bla
Don't steal
That's enough for me, If everyone believed that the world would be a better place for all.


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## moore

cazna said:


> Wasn't Albert Einstein's take on the bible its nothing more than fables of mans weaknesses.
> 
> Millions maybe billions of people have been murdered in the name of religion.
> 
> I went to a catholic school, Everyone in my class and most classes just came away confused by the whole set up.
> 
> Tolerance of all races religions and people
> Do unto others bla bla
> Don't steal
> That's enough for me, If everyone believed that the world would be a better place for all.


 That's pretty much my out take on It ! :thumbsup:


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## moore

I'm sure there is a higher being .


But I still say the Bible is a load of horse chit!


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## cazna

We had nuns that were mostly horrible cows. Brothers that liked to dominate and pedophile along with priests. There where a few good ones in there but the whole religious set up can sure bring out the worst. Child abuse. Females treated terrible. Etc. We have catholic breathern and another sect here all label them selves Christian. I've come across coonyites they were nice accepting people. Jehovas witness and seventh day adventist which they are interesting. The story of Desmond doss medic in second world War is truly amazing. If there was ever a higher power it was watching over him. And how a seventh day adventist woman would be taken from her own family to look after nazi families if she would de nonce there own religion and become nazi they could stay with there own family. Which they wouldn't and looked after nazi families like there own. Religion can be great wiether it's true or not I don't know but that inner belief It can give someone can do great things. Just a shame it's twisted into excuses for atrocities.


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## keke

antoniosmall said:


> How did I fix it? I went back in there with the advice of MrWillys, watched a couple of videos over, prayed to God for help and went to work. I think I put on two more coats before my final sanding so I have a thick layer of compound.
> 
> Why didn't I get the same results the first time? I already mentioned it I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't mix the pre-mixed mud when I first applied it - I just took it straight out of the bucket and applied it to the walls.
> 
> If you read my lessons learned post you will see the small details that I used and learned.


You think you put on 2 more coats????? I'll tell you what I think .... because the truth is hidden in the small details...I think you went to church and prayed not to God but begged one of your brothers to help you...don't forget... we're professionals here... we all know how it should look at the end

For ex... to hide your humps with other 2 thick coats of mud you'll be flash with the tiles and don't see that in your pics... I can even see the paperboard after sanding....and for the future.. be honest with yourself and God......*and cut out the crap*


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## MrWillys

Here's the new standard in which to live by and my friends here are failing in this thread and should be ashamed.


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## antoniosmall

keke said:


> You think you put on 2 more coats????? I'll tell you what I think .... because the truth is hidden in the small details...I think you went to church and prayed not to God but begged one of your brothers to help you...don't forget... we're professionals here... we all know how it should look at the end
> 
> For ex... to hide your humps with other 2 thick coats of mud you'll be flash with the tiles and don't see that in your pics... I can even see the paperboard after sanding....and for the future.. be honest with yourself and God......*and cut out the crap*


Yet another great compliment - thanks!

What does "flash with the tiles" mean?

And you don't see paperboard after the sanding - you see the painted wall that I put mud over. That was tricky because the mud kept sliding when I applied it. Very annoying.

I told you, I can't wait until my next finishing job. I heard guys are getting $8 a board. Nice!


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## antoniosmall

cazna said:


> Wasn't Albert Einstein's take on the bible its nothing more than fables of mans weaknesses.
> 
> Millions maybe billions of people have been murdered in the name of religion.
> 
> I went to a catholic school, Everyone in my class and most classes just came away confused by the whole set up.
> 
> Tolerance of all races religions and people
> Do unto others bla bla
> Don't steal
> That's enough for me, If everyone believed that the world would be a better place for all.


Religion and the Bible are two different things, that's why you have different groups reading the same book holding up many different banners: Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptist, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, Pentecostal, etc.

Jesus emphatically said 1) love God with all your heart mind and soul and 2) do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

That's all you need.


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## antoniosmall

moore said:


> I'm sure there is a higher being .
> 
> 
> But I still say the Bible is a load of horse chit!


So what is that higher being doing? Is there a purpose?


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## keke

antoniosmall said:


> Yet another great compliment - thanks!
> 
> What does "flash with the tiles" mean?
> 
> And you don't see paperboard after the sanding - you see the painted wall that I put mud over. That was tricky because the mud kept sliding when I applied it. Very annoying.
> 
> I told you, I can't wait until my next finishing job. I heard guys are getting $8 a board. Nice!


First of your pics with mess up - your mud is really same level with the tiles. Second pic - finished one - not the same level with the tiles and you think you applied 2 thick coats. if you wanna hide that mess look at the edge of the tiles and tell me what you see

$8 a board ??? Handyman price ... I've got an eye for details ... probably that's why I get paid $30...

PS From pics it doesn't even look as being the same wall


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## antoniosmall

keke said:


> First of your pics with mess up - your mud is really same level with the tiles. Second pic - finished one - not the same level with the tiles and you think you applied 2 thick coats. if you wanna hide that mess look at the edge of the tiles and tell me what you see
> 
> $8 a board ??? Handyman price ... I've got an eye for details ... probably that's why I get paid $30...
> 
> PS From pics it doesn't even look as being the same wall


$30 a board? Wow! This is South Florida, maybe that's why the prices are so low.

Look, you're trying to do detailed analysis from a picture.

There is no reason for me to lie. I'm the same guy who came here and admitted that he screwed up. There is nothing to gain from lying about the end results. It's very simple, the difference between a newbie and a pro is that a newbie can give you the quality of a pro but NOT at the speed. Also a pro can troubleshoot problems better because they have been through more situations that they have to work their way through.

I'm learning this with a tile job where the owner is kicking my butt! There were grout lines that were inconsistent, hollow tiles and lippage. This lady went through each and every tile and wrote notes on the tile and used post-its to call them out. It was devastating because I worked on that floor for 14 hours. My buddy said he would have done the same floor in 2.5 hours and he can better articulate what the issues are going to be and why.

You have two choices with problems - any problem - 1) run or 2) dig deeper. I didn't run and just dug deeper - through the power of God!


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## endo_alley

There is nothing that can replace working behind a professional when it comes to learning a trade properly. A site like this is good for discussing the fine points like "What knife is better for running angles by hand, a 4", a 5" or a 6"?" Or questions like "Do you keep a sharpener in your tool bags to touch up your utility knife blade during the day?". Stuff like that.
But for comprehensive learning of the trades, a mentor is the best thing. That being said, I don't actually finish in the way that I was taught back in the late 70's. I worked with a guy who was super fast and super clean. But he used a 7" box to fill coat. A 7" box to split out his butt joints. And then second coated flats and capped his butt joints with a 12" box. I would never do that today. But I did learn to respect cleanness in finishing from him. He would work all day in a black tee shirt and never get a speck of mud on it. Fast too. But never moved fast. Pretty amazing really. You don't get that experience from any videos I have seen.


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## antoniosmall

endo_alley said:


> There is nothing that can replace working behind a professional when it comes to learning a trade properly. A site like this is good for discussing the fine points like "What knife is better for running angles by hand, a 4", a 5" or a 6"?" Or questions like "Do you keep a sharpener in your tool bags to touch up your utility knife blade during the day?". Stuff like that.
> But for comprehensive learning of the trades, a mentor is the best thing. That being said, I don't actually finish in the way that I was taught back in the late 70's. I worked with a guy who was super fast and super clean. But he used a 7" box to fill coat. A 7" box to split out his butt joints. And then second coated flats and capped his butt joints with a 12" box. I would never do that today. But I did learn to respect cleanness in finishing from him. He would work all day in a black tee shirt and never get a speck of mud on it. Fast too. But never moved fast. Pretty amazing really. You don't get that experience from any videos I have seen.


Look, I respect your experiences and I don't mean to minimize the commitment it takes to get good if that's what people think I am doing.

I simply came to this site with one problem that I needed help with. It wasn't an indictment of the trade or the time it takes to master it.

You can't build a home, a community, a country or anything without the free exchange of information. That is the beauty of the internet. That is why the most giving companies are the most rich and powerful. Humans are always in need of solutions and anyone that can help the most people get the most help are usually very successful.


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## moore

$8 a board....:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:


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## cazna

I dont believe for a second the current pope said that? It denounced everything he stands for 

But I do like it, Good advice.


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## MrWillys

MrWillys said:


> Here's the new standard in which to live by and my friends here are failing in this thread and should be ashamed.





cazna said:


> I dont believe for a second the current pope said that? It denounced everything he stands for
> 
> But I do like it, Good advice.


 And you may very well be correct, but you do have to wish it was true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...a58a6c-8dd6-11e3-99e7-de22c4311986_story.html

He has been the best Pope of my lifetime and has built bridges to other faith as well as those not accepted by some as equal.


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## endo_alley

MrWillys said:


> Here's the new standard in which to live by and my friends here are failing in this thread and should be ashamed.




Here's the new standard in which to live in which I hope my friends succeed.


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## MrWillys

endo_alley said:


> Here's the new standard in which to live in which I hope my friends succeed.


 Apples and oranges. Political economists that call for pure capitalism is a call for chaos and anarchy as it is doomed to failure. All modern economies have central banks so get used to it. We'll get to see somewhat of a result of this over the Brexit vote. However, I'm sure it will be the Bank of England.
What Pope Francis is doing is living the life similar to that of Jesus and presenting tolerance and love of all things. I would only hope others could learn from his example of how to play well with others.
I have no problem with the markets in the world and the US. I'm making 4% right now in conservative investments which is pretty good in today's markets.


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## endo_alley

Maybe. But most of what I hear from Francis seems like a bunch of feel good pabulum. The socialist politics and economics of Hugo Chavez with a little new age Timothy Leary thrown in. I am not much for focusing on the pope's ideologies. But I think that pope John Paul tossing the commies out of Poland was a bigger deal than anything Francis has done. As for Capitalism causing chaos, look at Hong Kong in comparison to mainland China. Unless by chaos you really mean a strong dynamic economy. The only strides China has made are when they piecemeal adopted Capitalism.


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## MrWillys

Hence our difference of divisive vs inclusive and thank goodness our founding fathers got it right as shown in Supreme court rulings. Your divisive Nationalism allowed Hitler to put millions to death and is being used today in a campaign for President of the United States. All John Paul did was to claim that Marxism and Christianity were incompatible. He didn't run anyone out of anywhere as he didn't have the authority like the church had during the Crusades. But I get your alignment with his bigotry that comes with divisiveness. I'll stand by our constitution of all are created equal as Pope Francis is calling for!


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## endo_alley

MrWillys said:


> Hence our difference of divisive vs inclusive and thank goodness our founding fathers got it right as shown in Supreme court rulings. Your divisive Nationalism allowed Hitler to put millions to death and is being used today in a campaign for President of the United States. All John Paul did was to claim that Marxism and Christianity were incompatible. He didn't run anyone out of anywhere as he didn't have the authority like the church had during the Crusades. But I get your alignment with his bigotry that comes with divisiveness. I'll stand by our constitution of all are created equal as Pope Francis is calling for!


"Your divisive Nationalism allowed Hitler to put millions to death " I wasn't even alive during the Third Reich. So that can't be correct. The Pope is fine when he sticks to feel good religious subjects. It is only on those occasions where he gets into politics, and starts naively supporting Chavez style governance that I disagree with him. He is obviously not well schooled in economics. I wouldn't expect that he would be. But I would rather listen to the pros when it comes to economics. FA Hayek won the first Nobel prize ever given for economics. And he was a big part of why the Nobel committee added economics to their awards.


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