# level 5 finishing



## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

How do you guys do your level 5 I was taught to trowel on the ceilings but 
I'm looking at change...... I've seen some vids on rolling and I have read guys spraying, but is it the same mud you use to top with the spray gun and can you use a painters spray machine ?


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## Pytlik (Jan 14, 2013)

I prefer to spray, but rolling is also easier!.. I use the same mud when spray or roll, just put a little more water in.. ( I use same thickness as when zook )

Also buy "the big red knife with handle" is make level 5 ceilling to easy!

think beroexpert is selling the "red knife"
http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/beroxpert-7498/


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Big roller and a tray, Thin the mud back, One man roll it on and one man trowel off or get a beroxpert thingy, You will get it done faster than spraying cause your not masking anything.

You would need a big mud pump sprayer to spray thinned mud, The other paint sprayers will do the so called surfacer level 5 products but they are not as good as a roll and skim.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks guys I'll have a look at those trowels


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## beroXpert (Oct 10, 2014)

Hello Aussiecontractor.
You can get a BEROXpert SuperFLEX finishing blade very easy in New Zealand. http://www.beroxpert.com/where-to-buy/new-zealand.html
A lot of drywall guys love to do level 5 with this tools. We developed this tool together with the guys from USG Sheetrock Europe specially for skimming and Level 5.
Thanks
Frank from BEROXpert


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks for the info 


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Aussiecontractor said:


> How do you guys do your level 5 I was taught to trowel on the ceilings but
> I'm looking at change...... I've seen some vids on rolling and I have read guys spraying, but is it the same mud you use to top with the spray gun and can you use a painters spray machine ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySMc5doCA6w


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

My guys would thin down topping mud and one would roll and the other would trowel. My guys didn't wipe it as tight as Rick is doing in the video, but I do, because I think you have less sanding.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> My guys would thin down topping mud and one would roll and the other would trowel. My guys didn't wipe it as tight as Rick is doing in the video, but I do, because I think you have less sanding.


Everybody has there own thang .. All I know Is the painters that fall in behind me are pleased .. When that changes ! I'll change ! 


If a painter primes new drywall with a primer sealer .. There's really no need for a skim over of the whole ceiling/Walls ! IMO Level 5 is a bunch of horse chit!! edit....unless it's a really chit board ..like the light weight boards with the crater surface ...that needs attention !!


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

We hardly do level 5 only second time in 15 years and first time is when I was still learning the trade... But builders specified it in the main areas on this job as its right on the beach with full height windows so lots of glancing light 


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

We use this for level 5 - roll or spray and roll, then sand after dries:

https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/...synko-pre-coat-drywall-surface-equalizer.html

It's not a primer, although painters have gone and painted on it thinking it was.

An older thread where you should find more info:

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f2/level-4-vs-level-5-finish-2086/


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## Deerhunter_28 (Oct 9, 2014)

moore said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySMc5doCA6w



The level 4 was already sanded.
Do you just sand the rolled on compound???

Thanks just needing some understanding???


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Check for flatness everywhere. Shine everything with bright lights. Touchup very thoroughly. Sand the heck out of everything. Then sand some more. Sponge all of the dust off the walls with a damp sponge.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Deerhunter_28 said:


> The level 4 was already sanded.
> Do you just sand the rolled on compound???
> 
> Thanks just needing some understanding???


sand what? :blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> Sponge all of the dust off the walls with a damp sponge.


**** dat! I don't think so!!!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

JustMe said:


> We use this for level 5 - roll or spray and roll, then sand after dries:
> 
> https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/...synko-pre-coat-drywall-surface-equalizer.html
> 
> ...


The US Gypsum Association does not recognize these products as level 5 finish, so you can get into legal issues if substituted.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> The US Gypsum Association does not recognize these products as level 5 finish, so you can get into legal issues if substituted.


You are hands down by the book aren't cha? I hate to tell you this but the wigs are not doing what I do day in and day out ! 


**** The US Gypsum Association !


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

MrWillys said:


> The US Gypsum Association does not recognize these products as level 5 finish, so you can get into legal issues if substituted.


The outfit I've mostly done it for has been in business 40+ years. Never heard of them having problems, or heard of a legal issue from anyone using it. But then we're in Canada. Less litigious.

AussieContractor probably lives in Aus, so don't know how much of a concern it would be for him, either. But thanks for the heads up. I'll check into it.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

AussieContractor probably lives in Aus, so don't know how much of a concern it would be for him, either. But thanks for the heads up. I'll check into it 

Haha no **** Sherlock Holmes !!! ( just joking don't get offended)

Yer I've read into that level 5 stuff I was getting confused thinking that's not a topping compound 

But as willys said if someone in the know picked it..I would be up **** creek. 




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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Aussiecontractor said:


> AussieContractor probably lives in Aus, so don't know how much of a concern it would be for him, either. But thanks for the heads up. I'll check into it
> 
> Haha no **** Sherlock Holmes !!! ( just joking don't get offended)


 No offense. Since I don't know you on here, just playing it safe. Too many people saying one thing on the net while the reality is something different. Eg. You might have come from Aus but are now working in England or here in Canada - like one English plasterer was working on a last job I was doing, and another from I think Moldova on the last one.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

me n Gaz own sprayers


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> me n Gaz own sprayers


Spray that board down !!! It'll soak up all that moisture and do just fine! :thumbsup: :yes:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> Spray that board down !!! It'll soak up all that moisture and do just fine! :thumbsup: :yes:


Moe I did a Mexiknockdown cover up and leme tell ya the resta dem Tapers were in envy


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Moe I did a Mexiknockdown cover up and leme tell ya the resta dem Tapers were in envy


So you were the cook? Hell!! I'd of showed up too!! :yes: I don't know though ...Mexiknockdown sounds kinda spicy !!


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Hows this for level 5 finishing, A rest home here got flooded so the builders have cut out the bottom 500mm of board out of 54 rooms to let the framing dry, The rooms were wallpapered, So now they want it re boarded and the all 54 rooms skimmed out because they want paint finish.

To strip the wallpaper is prob 7hrs per room and the plaster work under it is not so good so you would have wallpaper glue and size to do battle with and who knows if the seams were even taped in 1984 when they did it.

So we are trying to figure out a system, Pigment seal all the wallpaper for a start but then what? Taping all that at 500mm off the ground by hand is not easy but has to be done, Maybe rolling stools?, So will the level 5 spray or roll on finishes do the job? or does it need full mud?

Most likely full mud so do you do an icerock and tube it on then wipe it out? Do you get the big airless mud pump and spray the mud on? How much masking would that be?? Would the beroexpert blades do it?

Im going for a look tomorrow and have a wee experiment, Either way you need manpower and that's lacking, I have enough work and don't need this but im the sort of fool that's sees a problem and is interested in working it out.

So everyone, Suggest away on this one :yes:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

How about a chair rail at the 500 cut?
http://www.trim-tex.com/products/shape-finder/decorative/chair-rail/

It maybe a good chance to showcase some TT products and solutions.

Over here those sort of places spec 13mm board to the walls so don't forget to check that. 

As for the level 5 to the rest of the walls good luck. I dont have much experience with that type of thing. I guess a fair bit is controlled by how well the wall paper comes off.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

They have talked about fitting a wooden trim around it all at that height but I think the owner does not want that.

I don't quite understand how that chair rail stays attached at the top and the wallpaper is staying, Its not coming off so skimming over it is the option, You pigment seal it first so the mud does not soak in and bubble the paper off.

This situation seems unique to NZ as wallpaper is-was quite popular for the last 100 years. 

Ive never heard any of you mention it before.

I think add the wooden trim, And just paint it all, Cheapest option.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

If you use this one it attaches at the bottom, and you use caulk at the top.

http://www.trim-tex.com/products/sh...chair-rail/decorative-chair-rail-style-671/#1

Sorry I misunderstood about the wall paper.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cazna said:


> They have talked about fitting a wooden trim around it all at that height but I think the owner does not want that.


I bet he'll regret that decision if it floods again :yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Exactly, Im going to do all I can (Which is very little) To talk them into a wooden trim and just paint it, That saves so much time money and effort. I could actually do it all because it would only be corners and a few short seams.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> So you were the cook? Hell!! I'd of showed up too!! :yes: I don't know though ...Mexiknockdown sounds kinda spicy !!


yep moore I covered burrito stains also

also Moore your fulla burritos and beans


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

****! burrito stains


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> You are hands down by the book aren't cha? I hate to tell you this but the wigs are not doing what I do day in and day out !
> 
> 
> **** The US Gypsum Association !


You need to remember that when doing multi million dollar projects contract administration is very important. I always said I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make money. If you're contracted to a level 4 finish you must make them aware that shading may occur in areas flooded with natural light. Otherwise, we get drug through and told it looks terrible and they want to hold us responsible. 
Once when fire caulking first came out I was told I had to caulk a 10 story building. Turned out there was a separate specification for sealants that we were not contracted to, so we got paid to do it. At that time fire caulking was like $25 a tube. On a lot of jobs my drywall finish was a battle between us and the painting contractor. We'd get punch list that were 10 pages long and you'd have to go through each item.


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## Shelwyn (Apr 10, 2015)

This is how you spray level on a level 5 drywall finish. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D20dup6yjU


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

cazna said:


> Hows this for level 5 finishing, A rest home here got flooded so the builders have cut out the bottom 500mm of board out of 54 rooms to let the framing dry, The rooms were wallpapered, So now they want it re boarded and the all 54 rooms skimmed out because they want paint finish.
> 
> To strip the wallpaper is prob 7hrs per room and the plaster work under it is not so good so you would have wallpaper glue and size to do battle with and who knows if the seams were even taped in 1984 when they did it.
> 
> ...


First time I have ever ran from a job in my life, Im keen for a challenge but screw this, See the bedroom, They want to re board the bottom then want the whole room skimmed, 80 rooms, hallways, kitchens, dining rooms etc etc. There would be hundreds, maybe thousands of metres of butt seam 600mm off the ground. How the hell do you do that? Sitting on a skateboard?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I would definitely be too busy.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> First time I have ever ran from a job in my life, Im keen for a challenge but screw this, See the bedroom, They want to re board the bottom then want the whole room skimmed, 80 rooms, hallways, kitchens, dining rooms etc etc. There would be hundreds, maybe thousands of metres of butt seam 600mm off the ground. How the hell do you do that? Sitting on a skateboard?


I can have the board up in a day . Finished out in a week [5 day week] It's gonna cost tho!!!! :yes: And I ain't promising perfection with all those bastard butts !


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I don't know about that one with all the devices in the walls. If you seal the wallpaper you still have to float over with mud and all that hand work is time consuming. I'd put 2 1/2 to 3 times that of a normal finish on that one.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> I can have the board up in a day . Finished out in a week [5 day week] It's gonna cost tho!!!! :yes: And I ain't promising perfection with all those bastard butts !


I thought you were a one man show when it comes to taping, moore. 80+ rooms + hallways in a week? With all the things like dust control thrown in?

While I was at a condo complex yesterday doing some other taping, I looked at a hallway they had like that - water damage with board cut at that height. Some other tapers had taped it out and it was already repainted and textured. The 2 reps from the fire and flood construction company who had hired them to do the job asked me what I'd want to fix what they'd done, after I told them No, it's not the paint and texture making it look humped - it's the hump you could feel that was making it look humped.
I told them I wasn't interested, and they should get the other tapers back to straighten it out. Whether they actually can.........


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

JustMe said:


> I thought you were a one man show when it comes to taping, moore. 80+ rooms + hallways in a week? With all the things like dust control thrown in?
> ..


OK....Maybe a little longer than a week :whistling2: But If I was hungry ! I'd take It and run through It.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Cutting the board up to that wooden band would save a chit load of time.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> Cutting the board up to that wooden band would save a chit load of time.


That seems like so much better of an idea. So there must be something wrong with it.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Its a mess isn't it guys, Insurance companys :wallbash:

They wont cut higher because that costs more board.

They want it pigmented sealed and skimmed out?? Madness, Theres a lot you cant see.

Really its a strip the wallpaper, Base coat up the butts etc, Then re wallpaper over it all but they are saying we want paint finish, I say its a pigs ear and you want a silk purse, If you want paint finish then re board the lot, Then they say but that's like an 80k extra??

It was built in 1984 and got 7 inches of water through it, Its a re wallpaper job dam it :furious:

Ive even got 3 plasterers and 7 painters saying so and we could all team up but so far the whole thing is just a dead duck.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

It's 80 freakin rooms and they're worried about extra board? That's messed up! That overall project is gonna cost them . Why cut cost with the drywall repairs? Oh! .....Wait....It's just drywall! :whistling2:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

cazna said:


> First time I have ever ran from a job in my life, Im keen for a challenge but screw this, See the bedroom, They want to re board the bottom then want the whole room skimmed, 80 rooms, hallways, kitchens, dining rooms etc etc. There would be hundreds, maybe thousands of metres of butt seam 600mm off the ground. How the hell do you do that? Sitting on a skateboard?


Looks like a good payer that 1 Caz!:thumbsup:
Not sure about the wallpaper tho if it would blister or need to be removed!
Think I would slap a tape on it with the gun and then try ur new wizard on something that rolls for first coat then scim the lot of my poor knees (Or u could use the tapepro twister for first coat) It only looks about 2 floats wide so be easy but not on them knees!


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## Terrence35 (Aug 25, 2012)

moore said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySMc5doCA6w


This looks like a great method. Just to get things straight, you finished your ceiling just like the walls and sanded everything. Then you went with the level 5 procedure after everything was sanded?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Terrence35 said:


> This looks like a great method. Just to get things straight, you finished your ceiling just like the walls and sanded everything. Then you went with the level 5 procedure after everything was sanded?


It's not a L5. 3 coats on the seams /Butts /screws. Then sand where needed . I light check before rolling and wiping ..Then onion skin what needs attention . Then I roll and wipe with Light weight mud on the field only ! cutting tight along perimeter . The Light wight mud helps to keep the scratches down from the sanding dust left behind. Any all purpose mud will scratch like crazy . 

After the the roll and wipe I'll light check and buff out any edges If needed . 


It's just the way I do .. I ain't sayin It's right!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> Everybody has there own thang .. All I know Is the painters that fall in behind me are pleased .. When that changes ! I'll change !
> 
> 
> If a painter primes new drywall with a primer sealer .. There's really no need for a skim over of the whole ceiling/Walls ! IMO Level 5 is a bunch of horse chit!! edit....unless it's a really chit board ..like the light weight boards with the crater surface ...that needs attention !!


Actually moore I did Level 5 in my house ceilings and it has no Tex looks really nice and better than not having it, guy in the video is wasteing his time a tight run 7 then 12 box sand with disk sander, then spray all of the ceiling with as heavy as the sprayer allows wipe with trowel or Richards 12 knife as its more firm, looks beautiful

did a res job the meximoore knockdown job I spoke about, one suite all new board in living room thought oh well and sprayed it also, the place looked mint, you could not even point your stilt stick at any shadows, none


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> the place looked mint, you could not even point your stilt stick at any shadows, none


....:whistling2:


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## Wellst95 (Apr 17, 2019)

What are you talking about? What do you have in mind?


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## drywallisair (Jan 4, 2020)

Aussiecontractor said:


> How do you guys do your level 5 I was taught to trowel on the ceilings but
> I'm looking at change...... I've seen some vids on rolling and I have read guys spraying, but is it the same mud you use to top with the spray gun and can you use a painters spray machine ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



The best I've seen on a large commercial job was Certainteed Level 5 sprayed on the walls after the contractor did a Level 3 job. 



Seriously, the best Level 5 I have ever seen. If I have pictures I'll post....


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