# Something died inside me this weekend



## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Bought an Automatic taper a few months ago... tried it out on some vertical joins and corners on a couple of jobs, thought "This is great!!, whats the fuss about?"
But last week I started a new house, and the last few days I've been taping up ceilings and square stopping with it and IT WAS AWFULL!! I was cover in mud from head to foot and up to my elbows.
I think I may have made the mud too thin, the tape would pull along when I tried to set it into the corners and peal off as I got to the end, and end up on the floor. 
Actually watching 1wallboardsman on youtube I think I definately had the mud too thin.
Tell ya what, at one point I almost kicked that darn thing across the room..:furious:

On the brighter note once it was rolled and had the anglehead run along it it looked pretty good.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Hahaha!! Get used to it bro. Until you get the hang the of it it's going to be frustrating. They aren't a joy to learn on I will tell you that much.

As for being covered head to toe in mud when doing ceilings; try following Columbia's procedure guidelines.








As for the tape dragging and falling in corners you can try purchasing a 
3-point creaser wheel from WallTools.com
They are the exclusive dealer to this product 

http://www.walltools.com/hsi-3-point-creaser-wheel-for-columbia-tapetech-and-g2-hsi-3pcw-025.html

This helps minimize drag and prevents the tape from being stuffed into the corners when there's bigger gaps in the drywall.

You'll get the hang of it bro. If you have a helper working with you, you can often times start an angle 12" or so, and then have your helper pinch the tape in the corner with a roller holding it in place when you complete your run. But with time you'll figure it out! :thumbsup:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Stopper said:


> Bought an Automatic taper a few months ago... tried it out on some vertical joins and corners on a couple of jobs, thought "This is great!!, whats the fuss about?"
> But last week I started a new house, and the last few days I've been taping up ceilings and square stopping with it and IT WAS AWFULL!! I was cover in mud from head to foot and up to my elbows.
> I think I may have made the mud too thin, the tape would pull along when I tried to set it into the corners and peal off as I got to the end, and end up on the floor.
> Actually watching 1wallboardsman on youtube I think I definately had the mud too thin.
> ...


I think we've all been there, trial and error.....check DWT.....more trial and error....give up......several months later try again, you'll get the hang of it when you look back at how much you paid for it :yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Funny things zookas, One day your ok, Next your not, I have two, Only run em on corners now, And really, now that i know what i do for me they arnt really worth it with my work. CP tube and banjos at the end of the day arnt that far behind, And you can hot mud those tools. Zookas fast, Yes, But then you wait for the airdry stuff to dry, And the shrinkage just keeps on coming, So really for ME, Maybe not you, production is slower. They can give more downtime, Im just wondering what mud your running stopper?? One of the Gibs, Promix, Tradefinishmulti, Plus4?? How are you getting it dry in dunedin this time of year?? Brrrr.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!! Get used to it bro. Until you get the hang the of it it's going to be frustrating. They aren't a joy to learn on I will tell you that much.
> 
> As for being covered head to toe in mud when doing ceilings; try following Columbia's procedure guidelines.
> View attachment 4340
> ...


 The first time I used it I had no problems , but think my mud was too thin this time round, but thanks for those tips, I think they would have helped a lot.
I took my nephew with me the following day to do the rest.

:thumbsup:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Funny things zookas, One day your ok, Next your not, I have two, Only run em on corners now, And really, now that i know what i do for me they arnt really worth it with my work. CP tube and banjos at the end of the day arnt that far behind, And you can hot mud those tools. Zookas fast, Yes, But then you wait for the airdry stuff to dry, And the shrinkage just keeps on coming, So really for ME, Maybe not you, production is slower. They can give more downtime, Im just wondering what mud your running stopper?? One of the Gibs, Promix, Tradefinishmulti, Plus4?? How are you getting it dry in dunedin this time of year?? Brrrr.


 Even though its cold drying doesnt seem to be a problem. 
I cork up everything with hotmud first, the put the tape on and let that dry, then fill, after that the next two coats are fairly thin.

The last few times I've used air dried for all three coats I didn't thin it down at all for the first coat so it didn't seem to shrink anymore than hotmud would.
The Taping mud through the banjo is thinned down quite a bit though.
As for drying theres a stairwell I couldn't do because the owner was oiling the wooden steps etc, and a bathroom wasn't ready + tiny closet so if the joins are damp and hold me up I'll do those areas by hand, The whole house is being left now while I finish another job for a few days so it should be pretty dry when I get back

Before getting the zooka I'd lay tap in corners with banjo and quickly wipe excess mud off and let dry , then coat with angle box later, worked pretty well...as you wipe off the excess mud you can leave a slight unfeathered edge towards the center of the corner, that pads out the angle head a little to reduce the risk of it tearing the tape.

Anyway like you I'll probably use the banjo most of the time , but for the bigger jobs I want to get used to using the zooka.... two houses I've looked at lately had a 2.5 meter stud, which puts the ceiling just out of my reach without a ladder, so unless I use stilts a zooka is going to be faster. Seems to be the fashion lately to use a sheet of regular drywall @ 1200 and then a wideline sheet @1350, means the steps of my step ladder suit my height perfectly but I can't reach the ceiling from the floor anymore.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for that reply, I was wondering how you were getting on with the zooka, I have done a few jobs now and i did a screw and seam prefill before taping with hotmud, Both coats, The canadians pre fill like this before taping but use airdry mud, Its really quite surprising how perfectly flat the tapes are, No tape shrinkage or warping, You think its a silly waste of time but then the boxed coats seem to need less mud and there is less/no shrinkage, Have you noticed how the 13mm ceiling sheets have such a big gap due to the rounded edges, A pre fill really helps, Like i said, you think its lost time and effort, But its an easy run after its done, All depends on job of course but this method would help when its colder, Prob why the canucks do it.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Thanks for that reply, I was wondering how you were getting on with the zooka, I have done a few jobs now and i did a screw and seam prefill before taping with hotmud, Both coats, The canadians pre fill like this before taping but use airdry mud, Its really quite surprising how perfectly flat the tapes are, No tape shrinkage or warping, You think its a silly waste of time but then the boxed coats seem to need less mud and there is less/no shrinkage, Have you noticed how the 13mm ceiling sheets have such a big gap due to the rounded edges, A pre fill really helps, Like i said, you think its lost time and effort, But its an easy run after its done, All depends on job of course but this method would help when its colder, Prob why the canucks do it.


See !!!! told you a pre-fill works:yes: Cazna of little faith :whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> See !!!! told you a pre-fill works:yes: Cazna of little faith :whistling2:


I thought you would like those comments, Its been one of the hardest things to get my head around, No one and i mean NO ONE here i know of does it, It seems crazy and such a waste of time, When your doing it you think this is stupied, Such a waste of time and energy, I could be taping not pissing about doing this, I could be a day ahead of myself, What the hell is that canadian on about, Hes laughing at me as im doing this, Wheres Aston Kutcher, That pricks gonna leap out of a wardrobe laughing and pointing at me saying hahaha you have been punked b!tch.

But, Then the tapes go on so flat and easy, And if your a banjo user then you can dial it back for less mud on the tape coat, so then a fill goes further, (A Zooka would give to much mud almost) Then boxing goes further cause your not trying to fill, Your only skimming, (Now i see how your double running the ten works out, Your not filling) Then there is no crease shrinking like taping mud can do, Nail spotters go better, Corners go better, So Mr Canadian, Your correct, A day prefilling is worth it, You have an easier run, It drys better, and you catch up on the boxing :thumbsup::thumbsup: Thanks.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

cazna said:


> I thought you would like those comments, Its been one of the hardest things to get my head around, No one and i mean NO ONE here i know of does it, It seems crazy and such a waste of time, When your doing it you think this is stupied, Such a waste of time and energy, I could be taping not pissing about doing this, I could be a day ahead of myself, What the hell is that canadian on about, Hes laughing at me as im doing this, Wheres Aston Kutcher, That pricks gonna leap out of a wardrobe laughing and pointing at me saying hahaha you have been punked b!tch.
> 
> But, Then the tapes go on so flat and easy, And if your a banjo user then you can dial it back for less mud on the tape coat, so then a fill goes further, (A Zooka would give to much mud almost) Then boxing goes further cause your not trying to fill, Your only skimming, (Now i see how your double running the ten works out, Your not filling) Then there is no crease shrinking like taping mud can do, Nail spotters go better, Corners go better, So Mr Canadian, Your correct, A day prefilling is worth it, You have an easier run, It drys better, and you catch up on the boxing :thumbsup::thumbsup: Thanks.


What do you guys mean a pre-fill? I see you guys always going on about this. You don't mean pre-filling gaps and busted corners eh? You're talking about on your flats? Explain this to me.
Another one of 2buck's crazy theories


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Not a crazy theory ! Pre-filling helps tremendously. I'm a little confused though 2buck. Do you fill before taping and let it dry or while taping ? I fill after I wipe the tape or might wait till I wipe all the flats in the room. I prefer to do it right after wiping so everything shrinks evenly and minimally.

You're right cazna ! More of a skim than a fill when boxing. Rarely do I use the #3 setting with my 10"(box i mean ). Almost always on #4 first coat. Makes coating easier and a little quicker too. I might use an extra box or 2 of taping mud because of pre-filling the flats but so what !:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Ya that's what I'm wondering too. Do you just mean fill the bevel as you wipe the tape? Because I do that. Or do you fill before the tape's go on? Im confused. :huh:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I am pretty sure this is the type of prefill to which they refer. If you look at the flats when they are hung they are never super tight. More often than not there is a rounded edge on at least one side which causes a gap. Hence the prefill.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

gazman said:


> I am pretty sure this is the type of prefill to which they refer. If you look at the flats when they are hung they are never super tight. More often than not there is a rounded edge on at least one side which causes a gap. Hence the prefill.


Ok. I understand that.:thumbsup: Never have seen or done THAT kind of pre-fill unless it was for large gaps. I understand about the rounded edge because I get that stuff also but it hasn't affected me so far.

Your weather sounds awesome there but it sure seems to play havoc with your drying issues and time. I live a few hundred meters from the largest freshwater lake in the world and do a lot of work around it so I understand all about your humidity. It sucks.

Makes me want to pack up my tools and come and do a couple houses over there just to see what you guys go through.:yes:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Well hurry up Slinger get over here. Well come on I am still waiting.
Perfect time for a Canuck to come over here at the moment, where I am our top temp through the day at the moment is about 15 deg c. Dont come in feb I would have to pick you up off the floor (and you look to big for that) the average day temp in feb is about 35 deg c. Some nights it does not get below 30 deg c. And then at times we get a run of 40 deg + for a week or two, that even sorts us out.:yes:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Hell, I may not leave once I get there ! :thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> I am pretty sure this is the type of prefill to which they refer. If you look at the flats when they are hung they are never super tight. More often than not there is a rounded edge on at least one side which causes a gap. Hence the prefill.


 like this?:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Cut the round edge off!:thumbsup:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I would run out of blades


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Pre fill is filling all the screws and centre of the sheet joins BEFORE taping PT, As well as busted corners, gaps, butts etc. JUST the sheet and screws at the join, Not the bevel. Try it, you wont believe just how flat the tapes will be.

Yeah i know, Sounds stupid huh, Im the one dealing with high humidity Mudslingr, Not gaz, His weather is much dryer than mine, I have a lot of rain and damp to deal with at certain times of the year, Timber, wallboard, custom wood trim all sucks up the damp, So this prefill idea of 2buckasheepshagger really helps.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Huh makes sense. Like Mudslingr, I have never really tried that unless it's for big gaps. Interesting though. :yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Huh makes sense. Like Mudslingr, I have never really tried that unless it's for big gaps. Interesting though. :yes:


I only ever did big gaps as well then into the taping, Read again my post 9 for the advantages, And see the pic in post 17, Its just filling that, its actually quite a gap, With taping mud and certain times of the year, You tape, Then think its dry the next day or day after, So you coat over it, Then get a shrink line, Once i taped it, Left it for four days, I was so sure it was dry, But cut into it to see, The taping mud in that seam was like a soft paste,Still not dry, So if i had of prefilled it hot mud, Then banjoed hotmudtaped i would have had more production. Even Airdry mud unthinned from the bucket for a prefill would have prob worked like 2buck uses, Or do a Capt, Use Airdry with a little setting mixed in, But im going to stick with our hotmuds, Its good chite.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> I am pretty sure this is the type of prefill to which they refer. If you look at the flats when they are hung they are never super tight. More often than not there is a rounded edge on at least one side which causes a gap. Hence the prefill.


You got it bang on Gazzy, Thank you:thumbup:

But we have 3 different types of pre-fill, just so I can confuse everyone more:whistling2:. It all depends on the builder, and quality expected on the job, time restraints etc..... So my newb and 2bjr will ask, which system we going with, I will say...........

BASIC - fill butts and any major gaps (sometimes nails in upright angles also)

NAIL SPOT - Our rockers use nails so...... We spot the nails in the bevells (walls only), hit butts, header joints, and nails in up-right angles

MAJOR PRE-FILL - Whats shown in gazmans pic, As long as he is pulling the mud off tight and not filling the bevell.

We don't prefill Garages and closets etc. Sometimes, we just use straight mud right out of the box, other times we use a half and half mix, half AP mud, half chit rock. Then things also depend on the finish of the ceilings. Most of our ceilings get knock down, so we just pre-fill the butts (only 10" them). Painted,,,,, still just pre-fill butts, but we go 10,12, then skim by hand on flats, along with any wall work over 10 foot high and with stairwells also................ Confused yet

Then, depending on what the rock is, I could be wrong, but I hear American drywall has a more rounded edge/bevell, as depicted in Moore's pic. Well Canuck drywall has a more square edge (except our CD board) So there is less need to pre-fill with Canuck drywall. So a long with everything Cazna explained (thank u caz) we still pre-fill it b/c number one !!! our rockers use nails, you get no tape shrinkage/spit lines, it levels the joint, speeds up dry times and your box work ends up looking sweet.

That's why with my system, it dawned on me the other week, I should be trying that fiberfuse tape. It would fit into my system well, since I like to coat my beads and flats before laying angle tapes.

And sorry for going of topic stopper, I'll PM you some pointers:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya that's what I'm wondering too. Do you just mean fill the bevel as you wipe the tape? Because I do that. Or do you fill before the tape's go on? Im confused. :huh:


We call that back wiping here in the non wilderness part of the province:yes:

That method just swells the tape, making the tape stand out more proud. Which means you may half to open your boxes up wider to hide the joint, leading to pregnant joints or more build outs by hand.

Plus, when laying flat tapes, just get the damn things on, so they can do their thing, which is shrink. Flats tapes are the one aspect of taping you want to see shrink. coating over them right away makes the paper absorb the moisture more. So why try to suck and blow at the same time. When laying tape, lay tape, when coating, use a machine,,,,, that thing called a box, it coats things faster, than you can do by hand:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

You guys have allot of systems. I just tape, coat and sand. Nothing fancy. It always turns out good and I never have problems. I keep it basic.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> You guys have allot of systems. I just tape, coat and sand. Nothing fancy. It always turns out good and I never have problems. I keep it basic.


Yes I know, where I live, your what we call the Summer help


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Yes I know, where I live, your what we call the Summer help


funny....:whistling2:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> That method just swells the tape, making the tape stand out more proud.



Do you give the bevel a true fill when you do fill or are you still applying too much pressure when doing so causing you to be below the shoulders and not even with them which in turn can cause the mud to shrink below the tape line. I know you use taping mud so as you say,so...

When my tape is dry you can't see any tape edges and rarely see the tape at all. My 8" floats very lightly along the shoulders when filling. Almost no pressure. After a little shrinkage during drying everything is good to go. I also make sure my tape is wiped down into the bevel. A lot of guys just graze the tape with their knife as if it was the body of a brand new Cadillac. Afraid of applying pressure because they're worried about squeezing all the mud out.

I find first coat shrinkage into an unfilled bevel an awful thing sometimes requiring a 3rd coat or an edge skim to hide the tape edge.

But then all this depends on the mud and environment in the end anyway.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Do you give the bevel a true fill when you do fill or are you still applying too much pressure when doing so causing you to be below the shoulders and not even with them which in turn can cause the mud to shrink below the tape line. I know you use taping mud so as you say,so...
> 
> When my tape is dry you can't see any tape edges and rarely see the tape at all. My 8" floats very lightly along the shoulders when filling. Almost no pressure. After a little shrinkage during drying everything is good to go. I also make sure my tape is wiped down into the bevel. A lot of guys just graze the tape with their knife as if it was the body of a brand new Cadillac. Afraid of applying pressure because they're worried about squeezing all the mud out.
> 
> ...


No we never back wipe, plus I remember a old thread this topic was discussed on. I could be wrong, but the general consensus was, most don't back wipe. I only remember the captain being one of them that didn't, he's the one who gave the swelling term

Got a taping bud who does it your way, he back wipes(fills), next day runs a 8", then his 12". So we tried back wiping the one day, the next day, our 10" would not bury the tape.

Yes we also put extreme hard pressure when wiping the tape, and we coat at a very tight number with the 10". have never ran a 10" wide open so...... our conclusion was it seamed to make the tape float more to the top or something. Then seen the swelling term mentioned on this site.

Makes sense to me if you think about it


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I hear ya. Just makes me think you didn't leave enough mud. Maybe your knife was too flimsy ? I don't know. Just wondering.:thumbsup:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> No we never back wipe, plus I remember a old thread this topic was discussed on. I could be wrong, but the general consensus was, most don't back wipe. I only remember the captain being one of them that didn't, he's the one who gave the swelling term
> 
> Got a taping bud who does it your way, he back wipes(fills), next day runs a 8", then his 12". So we tried back wiping the one day, the next day, our 10" would not bury the tape.
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying 2Buck we wait until the tape has set before wiping/filling. I did notice that wiping/filling was less of a problem on the walls than the ceilings. I came to the conclusion that gravity was part of the problem. The tape is wet and soft, then you add the extra wet mud to the face of the tape. Does the weight of the mud pull the tape down? I dont know, but I did notice more problems on the lids than the walls.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt use to say it floats to the top, Quite a good way of putting it. Or Floats to the top and wrinkles to hell i will add.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Thanks for that reply, I was wondering how you were getting on with the zooka, I have done a few jobs now and i did a screw and seam prefill before taping with hotmud, Both coats, The canadians pre fill like this before taping but use airdry mud, Its really quite surprising how perfectly flat the tapes are, No tape shrinkage or warping, You think its a silly waste of time but then the boxed coats seem to need less mud and there is less/no shrinkage, Have you noticed how the 13mm ceiling sheets have such a big gap due to the rounded edges, A pre fill really helps, Like i said, you think its lost time and effort, But its an easy run after its done, All depends on job of course but this method would help when its colder, Prob why the canucks do it.


I've always prefilled when taping corners, and when I switched from using fiba tape I started prefilling the joins too, Drywall fixers always left a gap between sheets here.
Plus it lets me deal with all the screws left sticking out and broken drywall etc so I get a good run when taping
Yer those 13mm sheets do have a big round on the edges, probably good as ofar as preventing cracks though, when something cracks most people come to only one conclusion, they YOU'RE to blame cause you didn't do it correctly

Went down to that house again today, first filled the joins with a 8inch, the corners are a little untidy but I'll just nip round with a hand sander on my stilts before I coat them again and titivate them a little, Doors are all in , and they've made them 53 mm to low lol, measn theres a little join to do above each door now that sticks up above the architrave about 15mm...

I also slopped that runny promix onto the glass, its dried hard as the hobs of hell and has stuck to the glass extremely well, that shows how good Promix is even when thinned down too much. (not so good for the glass though, I'll have to soak it off)


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> No we never back wipe, plus I remember a old thread this topic was discussed on. I could be wrong, but the general consensus was, most don't back wipe. I only remember the captain being one of them that didn't, he's the one who gave the swelling term
> 
> Got a taping bud who does it your way, he back wipes(fills), next day runs a 8", then his 12". So we tried back wiping the one day, the next day, our 10" would not bury the tape.
> 
> ...


 Swelling? Floating to top? I've taped with a banjo using airdried and filled straighway and that never happend , but the first time with my Bazooka (which had runnier mud in it than the banjo) I fill before letting it dried and got a hell of a fright when after filling with an 8inch then a 10 then a 12 I could still see the tape!!, it did sand away but I always wondered whether or not it showed when they sealed it...now I let the tape dry before filling the join. Couldn't see that happening today when I filled the joins...


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!! Get used to it bro. Until you get the hang the of it it's going to be frustrating. They aren't a joy to learn on I will tell you that much.
> 
> As for being covered head to toe in mud when doing ceilings; try following Columbia's procedure guidelines.
> View attachment 4340
> ...


 PT in the Hardened vid u never used the creaser wheel on the ceiling!!:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

VANMAN said:


> PT in the Hardened vid u never used the creaser wheel on the ceiling!!:whistling2:


Ya I usually never do on my flats. Only corners.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Oh for crying out loud,,,, If your gonna pre-fill your flats and butts . break out the Nailspotter and get r done. just remember to wipe down behind it. try it ..


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> Oh for crying out loud,,,, If your gonna pre-fill your flats and butts . break out the Nailspotter and get r done. just remember to wipe down behind it. try it ..


cp tube with flat applicator would be faster:yes::whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> cp tube with flat applicator would be faster:yes::whistling2:


A spotter and flat applicator would put on to much, Then you would get a raised tape.

Actually i have been thinking, (Dangerous) You could use a CP, With no head on it, Just use the plastic ball end to fill between the sheets, Like a big Chalking gun, Then wipe off and hit the screws with the excess mud, I used a small CP can am like this once, Got 3 rooms in an old bent up place that was badly hung, Big gaps to pre fill, So i hotmud pumped em full then wiped, It went well, Much easier than trying to fill by hand.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> A spotter and flat applicator would put on to much, Then you would get a raised tape.
> 
> Actually i have been thinking, (Dangerous) You could use a CP, With no head on it, Just use the plastic ball end to fill between the sheets, Like a big Chalking gun, Then wipe off and hit the screws with the excess mud, I used a small CP can am like this once, Got 3 rooms in an old bent up place that was badly hung, Big gaps to pre fill, So i hotmud pumped em full then wiped, It went well, Much easier than trying to fill by hand.


Cp tube works cazna who don't listen:whistling2:

Back in the day, many moons ago, our rock had a rounded edge at the bevell, unlike our squarer edge today.

We use to mix up a runny batch of durabond 90. one guy applied the mud with the cp tube well the other guy wiped. You did not apply a lot of hotmud, just enough to cover the gap. The faster you went, the less it put on. The guy wiping behind, could walk the full length of a 12 ft sheet, before wiping excess mud into his mud pan. You don't half to apply the same amount of mud, as when applying tape. In under a half hour, you could have most houses pre-filled out:thumbsup:

Maybe I should go back to doing that:blink:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Interesting thread guys. I always prefill (confill) all the obvious spots like bad corners and blown out boxes but also all the butt ends. If the board isnt really tight will do those flats as well. 

Jeez I think Mike Holmes looks like Bart Simpson.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Cp tube works cazna who don't listen:whistling2:
> 
> Back in the day, many moons ago, our rock had a rounded edge at the bevell, unlike our squarer edge today.
> 
> ...


I listen, It just takes me a while to try things out sometimes, Im not full time on the drywall, Sounds like you had a good system going there. :yes:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

I used to run nailspotter all the time for prefill areas. Never owned a cp tube.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Maybe I should get a nail spotter to do my prefill, only problem is I'd still have to deal with all the raised screws, would still be a lot faster I guess than doing it by hand. 
Although I'm a great believer in forcing the mud well into the gap, I guess a spotter would do that just as well though, If the mud wasn't too stiff, on the other hand if its too runny or the gap too wide it would peak out, which would be a pain. Another factor is my love of buying new tools which could override all other previously mentioned concerns.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Stopper said:


> Maybe I should get a nail spotter to do my prefill, only problem is I'd still have to deal with all the raised screws, would still be a lot faster I guess than doing it by hand.
> Although I'm a great believer in forcing the mud well into the gap, I guess a spotter would do that just as well though, If the mud wasn't too stiff, on the other hand if its too runny or the gap too wide it would peak out, which would be a pain. Another factor is my love of buying new tools which could override all other previously mentioned concerns.


I cant see a nailspotter being better than by hand for much of the prefill work. Automatic tools are great but sometimes you just have to do it the simple way (by hand).


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Mudshark said:


> I cant see a nailspotter being better than by hand for much of the prefill work. Automatic tools are great but sometimes you just have to do it the simple way (by hand).


Ditto, I would think it wouldnt work so well, Spotters dont hold much mud, How are you going to fill it with hot mud, A pumps a waste of time for that, Raised screws hitting the blade, You only want to fill the gap and no more or your going to get a raised tape, You want the stiffest mud you can for prefill.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I'd like to jump in here and make the point that the tape needs to be buried!!!!!!

If you pre-fill, you raise the tape,,,no????

tape fist,, then pre-fill anything you need to, to get to a good bed-coat,,,,,,,

it's really not that complicated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I'd like to jump in here and make the point that the tape needs to be buried!!!!!!
> 
> If you pre-fill, you raise the tape,,,no????
> 
> ...


It's sorta like sex, your just concentrating on the crack, not the whole you know what:whistling2:

So basically, your taking the mud off tight, not filling the bevell.

back in the day, 3 main reasons to do it were

#1 to tape and coat in the same day (tape don't swell out or crinkle or shrink in)

#2 if you went 7,10,12, you could drop the 7" (or 12" in your case)

#3 the bevell use to be more rounded (like cd board) so down the road spit lines would develop ........ (wet environment)

Now a days, builders are just so damn fussy:yes:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I'd like to jump in here and make the point that the tape needs to be buried!!!!!!
> 
> If you pre-fill, you raise the tape,,,no????
> 
> ...



If the tape does gets raised, its by a tiny amount, the thickness of a very very thing skim which is next to nothing.
If you bed the tape in without prefilling you'll find theres more compound under the center of the tape compared to the edges when wiped out flat . The difference is, with the prefill ,some of that mud was put in earlier and allowed to dry.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I'd like to jump in here and make the point that the tape needs to be buried!!!!!!
> 
> If you pre-fill, you raise the tape,,,no????
> 
> ...


 Main areas I pre-fill are the butt joints,, I really don't see a reason for pre-filling the flats unless they are really gaped out.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

betterdrywall said:


> Main areas I pre-fill are the butt joints,, I really don't see a reason for pre-filling the flats unless they are really gaped out.


Same here.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Another thing someone might be able to help me with, I notice in youtube videos people manually winding the cable in the bazooka with the knob on the side, it looks effortless when they do it, mine is very very stiff when I try this, what factors would cause this? mud too thick? not enough lube in tube? something out of adjustment?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I think your using promix, Well, Thats total ****e for a zooka, Thin it all you like its still going to be hard to turn, its to dence and heavy and it settles, Mix a bucket up and it will settle, It wont hold up very well, Unlike plus4 which is lighter and fluffier and flows far better through a zooka. Proper taping muds are much smoother though a zooka but shrink to hell and slow to dry (FOR ME IN MY AREA) Light weight muds are very nice to zook but have poor bond (Sheetrock) and can onion skin when sanding. Its mostly the mud you choose, But make sure the plunger is well lubed and slipping nice as well, Take you cleaning cap of and push the plunger down with a rod then try and wind it back up empty, Then you will know if its sticking or not.

Try mixing plus4 and promix, That will feel better.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> I think your using promix, Well, Thats total ****e for a zooka, Thin it all you like its still going to be hard to turn, its to dence and heavy and it settles, Mix a bucket up and it will settle, It wont hold up very well, Unlike plus4 which is lighter and fluffier and flows far better through a zooka. Proper taping muds are much smoother though a zooka but shrink to hell and slow to dry (FOR ME IN MY AREA) Light weight muds are very nice to zook but have poor bond (Sheetrock) and can onion skin when sanding. Its mostly the mud you choose, But make sure the plunger is well lubed and slipping nice as well, Take you cleaning cap of and push the plunger down with a rod then try and wind it back up empty, Then you will know if its sticking or not.
> 
> Try mixing plus4 and promix, That will feel better.


 I'll be honest, the last time I used that Zooka I didnt bother lubing the tube, couldn't be arsed. :thumbup:
If I can use Promix over top of Plus4 I might use it for taping and do all the filling with Promix , But in the mean time I'll try again with promix . 
The First time I used it I taped up ceilings and walls with promixand it work like a charm, but this house was a nightmare! it turned on me.

I'll keep that Plus4 in mind though:thumbsup:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

I always prefill butts, damaged drywall, any flat that has more then 1/8 crack, and that crappy ceiling board they put upstairs with rounded bevels.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I'll be honest, the last time I used that Zooka I didnt bother lubing the tube, couldn't be arsed. :thumbup:
> If I can use Promix over top of Plus4 I might use it for taping and do all the filling with Promix , But in the mean time I'll try again with promix .
> The First time I used it I taped up ceilings and walls with promixand it work like a charm, but this house was a nightmare! it turned on me.
> 
> I'll keep that Plus4 in mind though:thumbsup:


 
Bro, You gotta lube the hell out of that thing or the mud will stick up in there and give you hell, The cable drums prob tight as now, And believe me that plungers important, Its gotta slip and slide, Get yourself some lanox or inox and soak it, Up the tube, All around the head and leave it upside down in a bucket to drip out then just rag it off, Then the mud wont get in there and seize it up.
Like i said, Take the cap off, Get a rod and push the plunger down then wind it up with the key keeping slight tenison on it so the cable feeds back on the drun nice, It should be easy to turn, But Honestly, Promix is the worse mud for a zooka, I broke the key off my zooka first time using it trying to get that crap out of it. Its prob one of the heavest muds in the world and yes promix will go over plus 4 just fine, Both are highly glued up muds, your not silly, You know your in a world of chit if you sand through promix and hit plus4


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Bro, You gotta lube the hell out of that thing or the mud will stick up in there and give you hell, The cable drums prob tight as now, And believe me that plungers important, Its gotta slip and slide, Get yourself some lanox or inox and soak it, Up the tube, All around the head and leave it upside down in a bucket to drip out then just rag it off, Then the mud wont get in there and seize it up.
> Like i said, Take the cap off, Get a rod and push the plunger down then wind it up with the key keeping slight tenison on it so the cable feeds back on the drun nice, It should be easy to turn, But Honestly, Promix is the worse mud for a zooka, I broke the key off my zooka first time using it trying to get that crap out of it. Its prob one of the heavest muds in the world and yes promix will go over plus 4 just fine, Both are highly glued up muds, your not silly, You know your in a world of chit if you sand through promix and hit plus4


Thanks Cazna!!...I've never heard of Lanox, just looked it up, sounds like good stuff, will have a look for it tomorrow, would Bunnings or the Megastore sell that I wonder?.

I'd only tape with Plus4, not do any filling with it, I know what you're saying though, sanding through a harder mud into a softer one would cause problems... Promix does go througha zooka though, atleast the first couple of times I used it it did. come to think of it though when I cleaned the zooka the second time round the plunger was kinda stiff when pushing it down the tube with a rod...

...I can see a light at the end of the tunnel now :thumbsup: thanks man


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Stopper said:


> Thanks Cazna!!...I've never heard of Lanox, just looked it up, sounds like good stuff, will have a look for it tomorrow, would Bunnings or the Megastore sell that I wonder?.


I got more or less the same stuff but mines food grade "Inox" and the only place I could find it was Supercheap auto, something like $80 for 4L? but it goes a long way, best lube I've ever used on my tool...s


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> I got more or less the same stuff but mines food grade "Inox" and the only place I could find it was Supercheap auto, something like $80 for 4L? but it goes a long way, best lube I've ever used on my tool...s


 
I got a 4L from an engineering shop years ago with a couple of spray bottles, It lasts forever and has little smell, Its great, But inox is more common and easier to fined than lanox. It will keep you auto tools running sweet, Only a little bit often is enough.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> I got more or less the same stuff but mines food grade "Inox" and the only place I could find it was Supercheap auto, something like $80 for 4L? but it goes a long way, best lube I've ever used on my tool...s





cazna said:


> I got a 4L from an engineering shop years ago with a couple of spray bottles, It lasts forever and has little smell, Its great, But inox is more common and easier to fined than lanox. It will keep you auto tools running sweet, Only a little bit often is enough.


Awesome!!

I'll go grab some tomorrow!! 

On a side note A bought another new light today, will post a pic in that light thread later


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

...Well its been another one of those days, I've been working every weekend to get jobs finished for people and keep everyone happy.
And today was Sunday here, and I'm working for this guy who's renovating his bathroom and toilet and hall, hes got a new baby on the way in a few weeks and his Mothers coming to stay this thursday...So today, Sunday I arrived to sand 10am, (on my weekend) and you know what he says.." We may have a bit of a glitch, midwife is coming for a meeting at 11 for an hour so you can't sand between 11 and 12." (he was worried about noise from sander., I just looked him in the eye and said "Once I start sanding I aint stoppin" 

I can't piss around with my finger up my date while people are having meetings! breaking my Sunday up ...honestly what goes through peoples heads?... they had the meeting elsewhere.

Any way , what sort of crazy clients do you guys work for?


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