# Question: Getting Paid By Board



## Paravain

I got an offer to tape a job 2000 Boards all standing up 10 foot boards 

Ceilings at about 9 foot 4

Fire tape the top which he want to give me a different price on. But for the finish work.

he want to give me $8 a board and $1 a foot on the corner bead 

that's for tape, to finish coat, and sanding.

Is that a good price to get? 

And what should I get for fire taping the tops?


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## super rocker

Way too little.


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## Paravain

super rocker said:


> Way too little.


That's what I thought that's about 20 cents a sq. foot then 1$ a foot on the corner bead 

What's a fair sq. footage price?


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## boco

Are you buying the tape and mudd, sandpaper, mask, sponges etc.. What kinda insurance do you carry? What type of finish is going on walls. How much do you pay your help? Are you doing it with auto tools or hand?


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## Paravain

boco said:


> Are you buying the tape and mudd, sandpaper, mask, sponges etc.. What kinda insurance do you carry? What type of finish is going on walls. How much do you pay your help? Are you doing it with auto tools or hand?


For right now just myself, they are supplying materials, I think masks and sanding materials are going to be on me, but I should try and have them get that also, they want me to bring in the tapers but off 20 cents a sq. foot not sure I would be able to get any one for that so I maybe stuck by myself, oh and I have no insurance, and its not like they mind I am not being told I need insurance.

and I am just going to tape with a tape holder on my belt, 6 inch knife with a 12 inch trowel then sand between coats go down the middle with a 6 inch knife, then quickly sand, and finish coat with a 14 finish trowel, then I sand with a stick sander, I also use the circle stick sander, then I hit my corners with a sanding sponge :thumbup:

and my work comes out beautiful :yes:

I really don't like the sanding machine because its like using a grinder lol and burns the paper :furious:


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## BOBTHEFIXER

The price is so cheap , it should be between 25-45 cents sqft depends on the hight and on drywalling quality. 
$1 foot corner beads & inside, outside offsits. 

Thats for taping. 

For drywalling i charge 37-45 cent a sqft. 

I pay my guys 30 cent a sqft for drywalling when its big area. 

I dont do new houses so dunno if its cheaper. 

Best wishes


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## Paravain

BOBTHEFIXER said:


> The price is so cheap , it should be between 25-45 cents sqft depends on the hight and on drywalling quality.
> $1 foot corner beads & inside, outside offsits.
> 
> Thats for taping.
> 
> For drywalling i charge 37-45 cent a sqft.
> 
> I pay my guys 30 cent a sqft for drywalling when its big area.
> 
> I dont do new houses so dunno if its cheaper.
> 
> Best wishes


Oh yeah I forgot to say its commercial


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## RenoRob

You need a bazooka and a boxes for that one.....and a wiper on stilts


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## Paravain

RenoRob said:


> You need a bazooka and a boxes for that one.....and a wiper on stilts


That's just it tho not sure im going to get any one for that price, I can't really pay some one 25$ an hour off 20 cents a sq. foot


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## Paravain

What should I get a sq. foot for fire taping above the 10 feet?

If I get 20 cents a sq. foot for the finished areas, should I get 20 cents a sq. foot for the fire taping?


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## moore

Your gonna finish off 2000 boards by yourself for that coin?

Reminds me of some port-o-potty poetry I've been trying to translate for the last two days.. Lenny wrote ..'' Here I sit with my check a flexing while Obama pumps out another Mexican'' Underneath Lenny's poetry was another scribble . IT said '' **** YOU MOTHER****ER!'' 

LOL!! The sad part Is.. the Mexican's spelling was correct and with a very nice handwriting ! :yes:


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## sdrdrywall

We've done many thousands of boards for 8 dollars a sheet for standups but you need tools and a couple good guys and be ready to push no boot draggers .


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## drywallninja

There are a lot of variables to be considered as Boco stated earlier. Are they gonna pay cash since they don't care if you have insurance? Also, was it hung properly, or is it a chopped up mess? Big open areas or tons of angles and bead? It sounds to me as though the price is considerably low. It would be double that in my neck of the woods. But I would also consider lowering my price a little if it is wide open, doesn't hold many angles and the bead is at a minimum. 
Also, with a job that size, you should consider making an investment in some taping tools. That job could easily pay for what sounds like a needed upgrade. Another thing to consider is keeping your local rate where it stands. My fellow colleagues and I do our best to raise or keep the price what it is. Everyone hates the dude that low balls a bid and gets the idea in these GCs head that what we do isn't worth what they're paying us. Any which way, best of luck to ya. And make sure you're getting what you're worth.


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## Paravain

moore said:


> Your gonna finish off 2000 boards by yourself for that coin?
> 
> Reminds me of some port-o-potty poetry I've been trying to translate for the last two days.. Lenny wrote ..'' Here I sit with my check a flexing while Obama pumps out another Mexican'' Underneath Lenny's poetry was another scribble . IT said '' **** YOU MOTHER****ER!''
> 
> LOL!! The sad part Is.. the Mexican's spelling was correct and with a very nice handwriting ! :yes:


Well I don't want to but I may have to or I walk away from it 2000 boards wont be ready any ways 500 to start


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## drywallninja

moore said:


> Your gonna finish off 2000 boards by yourself for that coin?
> 
> Reminds me of some port-o-potty poetry I've been trying to translate for the last two days.. Lenny wrote ..'' Here I sit with my check a flexing while Obama pumps out another Mexican'' Underneath Lenny's poetry was another scribble . IT said '' **** YOU MOTHER****ER!''
> 
> LOL!! The sad part Is.. the Mexican's spelling was correct and with a very nice handwriting ! :yes:


Ahhh, the joys of trying to decifer porta-john poetry!!


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## boco

I think you have it backwards here. the red flag is i iwll give you 20 cents a foot. Normally I take a look at the job scope and give them my price.


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## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> and I am just going to tape with a tape holder on my belt, 6 inch knife with a 12 inch trowel then sand between coats go down the middle with a 6 inch knife, then quickly sand, and finish coat with a 14 finish trowel, then I sand with a stick sander, I also use the circle stick sander, then I hit my corners with a sanding sponge :thumbup:
> 
> I really don't like the sanding machine because its like using a grinder lol and burns the paper :furious:



You need to learn a few things buddy.
Pretty well everything you said up there is the slowest most disgusting way of doing things.
Get a bazooka, or a banjo, or a compound tube or a super taper. Any of those are faster than what you're doing!
You're going to tape 2000 10' sheets of drywall, that's 80,000squ/ft, by hand?!?! Are you on crack!?
Especially if they're all stand-ups! You can zip through that with a bazooka! Or even a banjo! Anything. Not by hand....dear god... What year is this!?

And sanding with a machine is like using a grinder!? What are you using!? Get the right tool for the right job. Get a higher gritt. Educate yourself about the trade you're working in.
It's not like I've been power sanding for years, we only just recently started too, but we get excellent results, even better than when sanding with a full circle or black widow, and at the end of the day, I don't break a sweat.

I dont care how you decide to go about doing that job if you get it. I'm just trying to help out.
If you can't afford to buy any of those tools, that's because of the way you're doing things now.
80,000 square ft by hand....disgusting.
Unfortunately I've taped for 20cents a foot, ya it sucks! But I still made $2000 that week. 
10,000ft of board. 1 guy, 1 week.
How long's 80 thousand ft going to take you!? That's why you're not making any money.

I'm not trying to be an as$hole, I'm trying to help you out.
You're welcome to call me anytime or shoot me a text message or an e-mail.
I'm sorry if this message sounded harsh, but you needed to hear it. Trust me.


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## MrWillys

If it's more than 10 sheets I e-mail the office and schedule a taper. He shows up and is much faster than me, so I do what he tells me, and I'll even clean his tools. When a General Foreman helps him sand they get really freaked out.


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## chris

MrWillys said:


> If it's more than 10 sheets I e-mail the office and schedule a taper. He shows up and is much faster than me, so I do what he tells me, and I'll even clean his tools. When a General Foreman helps him sand they get really freaked out.


 That would shock me for sure:thumbsup:


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## chris

Paravain said:


> For right now just myself, they are supplying materials, I think masks and sanding materials are going to be on me, but I should try and have them get that also, they want me to bring in the tapers but off 20 cents a sq. foot not sure I would be able to get any one for that so I maybe stuck by myself, oh and I have no insurance, and its not like they mind I am not being told I need insurance.
> 
> and I am just going to tape with a tape holder on my belt, 6 inch knife with a 12 inch trowel then sand between coats go down the middle with a 6 inch knife, then quickly sand, and finish coat with a 14 finish trowel, then I sand with a stick sander, I also use the circle stick sander, then I hit my corners with a sanding sponge :thumbup:
> 
> and my work comes out beautiful :yes:
> 
> I really don't like the sanding machine because its like using a grinder lol and burns the paper :furious:


 Are you pullin our legs??:blink:


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## Paravain

drywallninja said:


> There are a lot of variables to be considered as Boco stated earlier. Are they gonna pay cash since they don't care if you have insurance? Also, was it hung properly, or is it a chopped up mess? Big open areas or tons of angles and bead? It sounds to me as though the price is considerably low. It would be double that in my neck of the woods. But I would also consider lowering my price a little if it is wide open, doesn't hold many angles and the bead is at a minimum.
> Also, with a job that size, you should consider making an investment in some taping tools. That job could easily pay for what sounds like a needed upgrade. Another thing to consider is keeping your local rate where it stands. My fellow colleagues and I do our best to raise or keep the price what it is. Everyone hates the dude that low balls a bid and gets the idea in these GCs head that what we do isn't worth what they're paying us. Any which way, best of luck to ya. And make sure you're getting what you're worth.


Would you charge the same for the fire taping?


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## MrWillys

Guys, none of my business really, but!

I would never let a GC do my footage count for me. I'd use a scale tape (they come in 1/8", 1/4", 3/32", and 3/16" equals a foot) and take off the lineal footage and multiply times the height times each side of wall going over doors and windows. For taping I'd want to get anywhere from 50 cents to a buck a sq ft complete including materials and equipment. Allowing a GC to dictate the take off means your getting shorted.


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## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> You need to learn a few things buddy.
> Pretty well everything you said up there is the slowest most disgusting way of doing things.
> Get a bazooka, or a banjo, or a compound tube or a super taper. Any of those are faster than what you're doing!
> You're going to tape 2000 10' sheets of drywall, that's 80,000squ/ft, by hand?!?! Are you on crack!?
> Especially if they're all stand-ups! You can zip through that with a bazooka! Or even a banjo! Anything. Not by hand....dear god... What year is this!?
> 
> And sanding with a machine is like using a grinder!? What are you using!? Get the right tool for the right job. Get a higher gritt. Educate yourself about the trade you're working in.
> It's not like I've been power sanding for years, we only just recently started too, but we get excellent results, even better than when sanding with a full circle or black widow, and at the end of the day, I don't break a sweat.
> 
> I dont care how you decide to go about doing that job if you get it. I'm just trying to help out.
> If you can't afford to buy any of those tools, that's because of the way you're doing things now.
> 80,000 square ft by hand....disgusting.
> Unfortunately I've taped for 20cents a foot, ya it sucks! But I still made $2000 that week.
> 10,000ft of board. 1 guy, 1 week.
> How long's 80 thousand ft going to take you!? That's why you're not making any money.
> 
> I'm not trying to be an as$hole, I'm trying to help you out.
> You're welcome to call me anytime or shoot me a text message or an e-mail.
> I'm sorry if this message sounded harsh, but you needed to hear it. Trust me.


Well I always work by the hour that's why in on this forum trying to get a better idea of how to bid, I been painting for 20 years and always had a problem when tapers used sanding machines with them burning the paper which sucks if your a painter I never used them only for level 5 I have used them


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## P.A. ROCKER

Maybe you should get insurance first,,,, no insurance, no check:yes:.
I can make enough from $8 a 10 footer, running tools.


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## Paravain

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Maybe you should get insurance first,,,, no insurance, no check:yes:.
> I can make enough from $8 a 10 footer, running tools.


Insurance is not an option way to much cash that I don't have, but I did some work in the past not getting paid is not really the issue, the issue is the 20 cents a sq. foot and even less for the fire taping I need to know what to charge for the fire taping. Is far as upgrading my tools I may just do that to make it easier and faster for me. but should the fire taping be the same as the sq. footage that your getting for the job?


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## MrWillys

Paravain said:


> Insurance is not an option way to much cash that I don't have, but I did some work in the past not getting paid is not really the issue, the issue is the 20 cents a sq. foot and even less for the fire taping I need to know what to charge for the fire taping. Is far as upgrading my tools I may just do that to make it easier and faster for me. but should the fire taping be the same as the sq. footage that your getting for the job?


Fire taping would be 25% of the process, so id you work for free than 5 cents a sq ft. Geez, how do you even buy gas at these prices?


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## boco

I woukd shoot him an hourly rate. you will probly get 12 out of him


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## Paravain

MrWillys said:


> Fire taping would be 25% of the process, so id you work for free than 5 cents a sq ft. Geez, how do you even buy gas at these prices?


I wont do it for that I want the same that im getting for sq. footage just need to know if that is how its bid for less


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## MrWillys

boco said:


> I woukd shoot him an hourly rate. you will probly get 12 out of him


Where in NY do tapers work for $12 an hour?


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## Paravain

boco said:


> I woukd shoot him an hourly rate. you will probly get 12 out of him


I get 23 an hour where im at just in between jobs running in a slow spot


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## moore

All stand ups .. No butts. Good board.. $1 ft on the bead..

There's money too be made even If hand finished ...I still say the price Is a little low. I can't help but wonder what the hangers are getting..$5?


The G/C has $30 per board labor figured for that job...:yes:


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## chris

Paravain said:


> That's just it tho not sure im going to get any one for that price, I can't really pay some one 25$ an hour off 20 cents a sq. foot


 If you are serious?? If you could find a guy with tools ( boxes,bazooka or banjo, pump etc) he would be worth atleast 25 and make this project even more profitable for you. Im sure there must be a deadline. Get tools. A roll of tape and holster:blink: are you kidding? If you are committed to this job its time to get on the ball. Good luck


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## PrecisionTaping

chris said:


> If you are serious?? If you could find a guy with tools ( boxes,bazooka or banjo, pump etc) he would be worth atleast 25 and make this project even more profitable for you. Im sure there must be a deadline. Get tools. A roll of tape and holster:blink: are you kidding? If you are committed to this job its time to get on the ball. Good luck


Exactly.


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## Paravain

chris said:


> If you are serious?? If you could find a guy with tools ( boxes,bazooka or banjo, pump etc) he would be worth atleast 25 and make this project even more profitable for you. Im sure there must be a deadline. Get tools. A roll of tape and holster:blink: are you kidding? If you are committed to this job its time to get on the ball. Good luck


That's if i can find some body with all that equipment so far no luck, but anyways doing the job is not the issue I have no problem getting the job done I been getting jobs done for over 20 years I am just wondering price.

If I am getting 20 cents a sq. foot 
What should I get for fire taping every thing above the drop ceiling?

I just want to make sure I am getting a fair price I am going to upgrade my tools now first coat finish coat sanding is all quick easy **** lets face it all the work is with the taping and hanging bead 45 corners if there are any, coating is just coating thats quick and easy so if I can find a way to tape quicker which im getting a Bango tomorrow then yeah but still the question is the fire taping above the drop ceiling what should I get?


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## gazman

Paravain said:


> I got an offer to tape a job 2000 Boards all standing up 10 foot boards
> 
> Ceilings at about 9 foot 4
> 
> Fire tape the top which he want to give me a different price on. But for the finish work.
> 
> he want to give me $8 a board and $1 a foot on the corner bead
> 
> that's for tape, to finish coat, and sanding.
> 
> Is that a good price to get?
> 
> And what should I get for fire taping the tops?


I would not touch it for under 37c a foot. And a $1.50 a foot for bead. Same price for the fire taping, you need some cream.


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## gluedandscrewed

Firetaping price depends on a number of factors. Access, the number of protrusions, how well the rock is cut to fit, height etc.

8 bucks a board is about the lowest I will go for a job over 500 sheets. That's with them supplying all materials. Make sure you get a close look at the rock. MAKE SURE ALL SCREWS ARE SUNK. HAVE A CLAUSE IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL CHARGE EXTRA PER SCREW THAT NEEDS TO BE SUNK. I had a job for 400 boards and the first sheet had 10 clickers. I told the gc it was 1 dollar per screw not sunk properly. All the screws got sunk.

As for insurance being too expensive... its like 600 bucks a year. Spread that into 4 payments and its smart to get. 

If a gc decides to stiff you and you don't have insurance there is nothing (legal) you can do about it. With insurance and a contract, you can collect in court. Take pictures as well.


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## Paravain

gluedandscrewed said:


> Firetaping price depends on a number of factors. Access, the number of protrusions, how well the rock is cut to fit, height etc.
> 
> 8 bucks a board is about the lowest I will go for a job over 500 sheets. That's with them supplying all materials. Make sure you get a close look at the rock. MAKE SURE ALL SCREWS ARE SUNK. HAVE A CLAUSE IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT YOU WILL CHARGE EXTRA PER SCREW THAT NEEDS TO BE SUNK. I had a job for 400 boards and the first sheet had 10 clickers. I told the gc it was 1 dollar per screw not sunk properly. All the screws got sunk.
> 
> As for insurance being too expensive... its like 600 bucks a year. Spread that into 4 payments and its smart to get.
> 
> If a gc decides to stiff you and you don't have insurance there is nothing (legal) you can do about it. With insurance and a contract, you can collect in court. Take pictures as well.


Well thats $600.00 a year for likeability but for workmens comp its what like 3000. That would be about $1000.00 down?


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## gluedandscrewed

It takes money to make money.


He mentioned that he was doing it by himself. Even at a grand for comp , your doing a 16000 dlllar job. Or find subs with liability and have em sign a comp exclusion.


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## fr8train

I'm not required to carry comp, I am required to have insurance. I also have no employees, nor am I an employee. I'm a sub, and proud of it!


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## RenoRob

Paravain said:


> That's if i can find some body with all that equipment so far no luck, but anyways doing the job is not the issue I have no problem getting the job done I been getting jobs done for over 20 years I am just wondering price.
> 
> If I am getting 20 cents a sq. foot
> What should I get for fire taping every thing above the drop ceiling?
> 
> I just want to make sure I am getting a fair price I am going to upgrade my tools now first coat finish coat sanding is all quick easy **** lets face it all the work is with the taping and hanging bead 45 corners if there are any, coating is just coating thats quick and easy so if I can find a way to tape quicker which im getting a Bango tomorrow then yeah but still the question is the fire taping above the drop ceiling what should I get?


If you've never used a banjo you will love it compared to hand taping. You may want to start off will 250' rolls, it's freakin heavy trying to use 500's. Also, if you don't have a compound tube or pump you will have to figure out a quick way to fill it. You should be able to just pour the mud in from the pail once you thin it down. Or get a compound tube, corner applicators and some flushers ........ and rollers. Then you can rock the angles and beads. :thumbup:


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## boco

fr8train said:


> I'm not required to carry comp, I am required to have insurance. I also have no employees, nor am I an employee. I'm a sub, and proud of it!


 Try doing that in NY. You will have comp


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## A smooth finish

If you need help try finding a skilled labor company.

We have one here that really decent. Pay one fee they pay the guy all insurance taxes everything. 

You just have to watch the who you get. I have got some quality guys and some not so good. But you can always call the office and say get me a new guy.


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## Paravain

I went to home depot this morning to get myself a Banjo and all the cutting edges were gone off every one lol why? im guess people grabbed them, 5 finger discount is better then buying a new one for 65$, the only thing is it ****ed me I stopped for nothing and got in to work a little later and also had to drive to another Home depot after work

Good news is I got myself one


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## Paravain

Another Question: 

Is getting 8$ a board better then 20 cents a sq. foot? 

I heard when you get paid by board they count the boards that got delivered to the job.

This is what I heard just want to get your feed back on this.


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## moore

chris said:


> Are you pullin our legs??:blink:


Even If he Ain't ...After OSHA gets done with him, That $8 a board will all go to them and then some!


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## Paravain

moore said:


> Even If he Ain't ...After OSHA gets done with him, That $8 a board will all go to them and then some!


Never had a problem with Osha not on my jobs.


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## MrWillys

Paravain said:


> Another Question:
> 
> Is getting 8$ a board better then 20 cents a sq. foot?


Yes, and it's slave labor.. 
I need to clarify this. My math is based on a 4x10 sheet with 40 sq ft. $1 for every 5 sq ft.


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## MrWillys

moore said:


> Even If he Ain't ...After OSHA gets done with him, That $8 a board will all go to them and then some!


If he doesn't have a contractors license he cannot be held liable by OSHA for anything.


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## MrWillys

Paravain said:


> I went to home depot this morning to get myself a Banjo and all the cutting edges were gone off every one lol why? im guess people grabbed them, 5 finger discount is better then buying a new one for 65$, the only thing is it ****ed me I stopped for nothing and got in to work a little later and also had to drive to another Home depot after work
> 
> Good news is I got myself one


 Keep a close on the Banjo application. They have a bad habit of not saturating the tape completely and leaving blisters. While they're great for fire taping I'd hand tape anything that has to be finished.


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## RenoRob

MrWillys said:


> Keep a close on the Banjo application. They have a bad habit of not saturating the tape completely and leaving blisters. While they're great for fire taping I'd hand tape anything that has to be finished.


Really? What banjo are you using? I have a MT Sharpshooter and hardly every get blisters. Chris, on this forum, swears by it too (thinks his is a Kraft).


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## Paravain

MrWillys said:


> Yes, and it's slave labor..
> I need to clarify this. My math is based on a 4x10 sheet with 40 sq ft. $1 for every 5 sq ft.


Yeah I know its sucks but I am going to come up with some way to get many board done quick, I usually do small 50 - 60 board jobs so really only use a stapler for my corner bead, but today I went out and got a corner bead crimp and a banjo 

I did a condo unit for this guy before at 8.50 a board had ceilings all boards were laying down and double seems down the middle of the wall 110 boards stairs case, and I did it all by hand in about close to 50 hours all cleaned and, BUT that was also a side job some thing I did after work, I got screwed tho I agreed to do it before I looked at it, no window trim all corner bead and tear away strip and I didn't get 1$ a foot for the bead it was all 8.50 a board.

I always said I will get throw this and get it back on the next job!!!


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## MrWillys

RenoRob said:


> Really? What banjo are you using? I have a MT Sharpshooter and hardly every get blisters. Chris, on this forum, swears by it too (thinks his is a Kraft).


You may very well be right. I used one 25 to 30 years ago and the tape ran across the bottom, so sometimes the mud wouldn't get under it. If they changed the design it may work better. I just remember fixing blisters.


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## Paravain

RenoRob said:


> Really? What banjo are you using? I have a MT Sharpshooter and hardly every get blisters. Chris, on this forum, swears by it too (thinks his is a Kraft).


No its just from Wall-Board Tool I picked up at home depot for now it was only 65$ 

http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/1...ad-8-3-4-in-drywall-taper-reviews/reviews.htm

Question: How does the banjo work on corners?


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## fr8train

MrWillys said:


> You may very well be right. I used one 25 to 30 years ago and the tape ran across the bottom, so sometimes the mud wouldn't get under it. If they changed the design it may work better. I just remember fixing blisters.


:blink:
To my knowledge, banjo's haven't changed much since they were invented.

User error? The tape does feed into the bottom, you have to move it to the top before refilling.


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## chris

Banjos do take a while to get the hang of, and Im sure their design has changed a bit. Blisters are almost always operator error,no matter which tool.


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## RenoRob

Paravain said:


> No its just from Wall-Board Tool I picked up at home depot for now it was only 65$
> 
> http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/1...ad-8-3-4-in-drywall-taper-reviews/reviews.htm
> 
> Question: How does the banjo work on corners?


Not much difference than flats, just crease it in and go. Gotta have a roller though. It's gonna be brutal trying to wipe them out by hand.


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## MrWillys

fr8train said:


> :blink:
> To my knowledge, banjo's haven't changed much since they were invented.
> 
> User error? The tape does feed into the bottom, you have to move it to the top before refilling.


This jogged my memory, and it would pull itself to the bottom way before it ran out of mud. Okay, it may have been operator error, because now I remember having to stop and reset the tape. Shortly after this I was always able to use a Bazooka. I just threw it away in 2011 when I moved.


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## fr8train

There was a thread in banjos a while back, seemed some were more prone than others for that. I think it has a lot to do with mud consistency, if I remember correctly.


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## fr8train

Too thick and it was a bear to run, too thin and the tape could plow through the mud and end up under the mud. Any banjo guys want to chime in?


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## Paravain

RenoRob said:


> Not much difference than flats, just crease it in and go. Gotta have a roller though. It's gonna be brutal trying to wipe them out by hand.


I am going to look in to that, looking in to the roller I ran in to the All-Wall 4" Direct Corner Flusher with mud tube looks like a wise investment


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## goldwing109

you need a bazooka, run boxes and at least .22,thats $8.80 per sheet min, if there isn't alot of junk in the way,no less. Mind you i don't know what work is like in your area( how much work is out there),how far are you traveling to get to the job,you want to get at least .12 for the tops,how much mechanical in the way, are they suppling a lift or is it scaffold work, what is the top height,etc. that all reflects the price,stand back have a look and grade the level of difficulty for the job, tops and bottoms.


----------



## thefinisher

Blisters using a banjo is strictly user error. You have to get used to how it runs. Although I did find that the homax is more forgiving than your standard banjo. set the tape right and get your mud right and you wont have any problems.


----------



## chris

thefinisher said:


> Blisters using a banjo is strictly user error. You have to get used to how it runs. Although I did find that the homax is more forgiving than your standard banjo. set the tape right and get your mud right and you wont have any problems.


 more forgiving,,, please explain.


----------



## moore

Paravain said:


> Never had a problem with Osha not on my jobs.


This must be your first commercial job?


----------



## boco

Osha you know the bastards that make you wear a hardhat eyeprotection and steel toes. Then if your on a ladder over 4ft you need to be tied off. There cool.


----------



## boco

Personally i hate banjos for stand ups. Kinda hard on the back and you are constantly filling. The tape buddy is pretty darn fast. Messy yes but you can really fly and fire taping can be done with a glove. Sure you may come out looking like a illegal but foot for the price they can really payoff. Now if i needed to make quick cash and had someone lowball me i would mesh and durabond the **** out of it. Easily do 10k a week (day 1 would be a long day.)


----------



## MrWillys

boco said:


> Osha you know the bastards that make you wear a hardhat eyeprotection and steel toes. Then if your on a ladder over 4ft you need to be tied off. There cool.


What OSHA says about hardhats, and safety glasses is they must be worn if there's a hazard present. I know of no requirement for steel toes, but I could be wrong. You never are required to tie off on a ladder unless you're within 6' of a leading edge (edge of open building), and or on the top two steps. The real problem with enforcement of CFR 1926 is ignorance of it's real intent.
I'm always here to answer real questions if needed and can quote the section it comes from if required. As an instructor for the Carpenters I've received extensive training in this subject matter.


----------



## moore

MrWillys said:


> I'm always here to answer real questions if needed and can quote the section it comes from if required. As an instructor for the Carpenters I've received extensive training in this subject matter.


With big brother standing behind you I'm sure you had no worries !


----------



## boco

Really depends on where your working IBM, Phizer, industrial etc... Its all about Safety safety safety. Hardhat, glasses, steeltoes at all times. And yes anytime your on a ladder over 4ft you need to be tied off. It may not be an Osha requiement more like a insurance company policy.


----------



## Mudstar

I thought this was a professional forum, is this not a odd question from a professional JS


----------



## gazman

This time Mudstar I agree with you. :yes:


----------



## fr8train

Might be his first commercial job


----------



## endo_alley

I seem to have missed which "level" of finish this is for. If it gets a skip trowel over it or spray knockdown, .20 / foot may not be too bad. You would need 2 fast guys with mechanical tools. But we get about double that for a "level" 4. And it can still be hard to make money. "Level" 5 and I can find a way to lose money at .50 / foot, if there is a lot of light and big south facing windows that show even the smallest irregularity.


----------



## MrWillys

boco said:


> Really depends on where your working IBM, Phizer, industrial etc... Its all about Safety safety safety. Hardhat, glasses, steeltoes at all times. And yes anytime your on a ladder over 4ft you need to be tied off. It may not be an Osha requiement more like a insurance company policy.


Each employer is required to implement a IIP (injury & illness protection) program for their employees. Employers (states too) may also create a more stringent safety standard than required by OSHA, but in no case may it be less. These employers you mention have gone above the OSHA requirements.

Ladders, both portable, and permanent already have certain fall protection standards such as cages, and rest platforms. However, it is my opinion that OSHA NEVER allows a ladder to be used as a work platform due to the 3 point contact rule. never at anytime when an employee is in use of a ladder shall one hand, two feet, or one foot two hands leave a ladder. It is intended solely to move from one elevation to another (don't shoot the messenger here. I'm just explaining it, and I've violated it too).

Boots, after my last post I read through this ANSI Z49 1991 standard, and can see the steel toe requirement. I've wore Red Wings since I was 14 years old (old enough to buy my own) and never had anyone tell me I needed steel toes.

Honestly, those big jobs care more about people that will tolerate the BS than those who produce, and is really sad. We should be thankful for what we get away with though. I'll never forget a T-bar guy arguing with OSHA dude about locking his wheels each time he moved his scaffold. He'd have been better off saying yes sir, and going back to what he was doing, because he would have left sooner.

OSHA is a double edged sword though. People die in accidents on the job, and safety shouldn't be taken lightly. We've all done something really stupid, and yet these jobs you mention are the opposite extreme.

in one instance, firefighters were called where a worker passed out repairing a sewage digester (most likely lack of oxygen). firefighters put a light bulb down in the tank, and it broke exploding the gases killing 5 firefighters and the guy in the tank. Should we learn from this, or ignore it?

Sorry for rambling, but there's always two sides to everything, and we should always be objective.


----------



## McCallum and Sons

If you are stapling the cornerbead you need to use pneumatic stapler that go through the into stud, I used to use 1 1/4" crown staples before I started using paperfaced and more recently MudLock.It sounds like you need to work with a real finisher for awhile to see how it's done. I have fixed many jobs where a painter all of the sudden thinks he can finish and bites off a bigger piece than he can chew, but it takes years of practice to be efficient. When it comes to finishing, time = money and anytime you can use a machine for something you're going to make more money.
And by the way, the banjos are sold with the blades disconnected and taped inside for easier transport.


----------



## Paravain

Staples in to studs lol thats funny, no I use a regular staple gun with 3/8 10mm T50 staples but I just made an upgrade to all my tools with a Banjo, a corner bead crimp, a corner roller, a 4" direct corner flusher with a 36" bigshoter mud tube, the ultimate corner sander, stilts, and I'm looking in to a sanding machine


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> Staples in to studs lol thats funny, no I use a regular staple gun with 3/8 10mm T50 staples but I just made an upgrade to all my tools with a Banjo, a corner bead crimp, a corner roller, a 4" direct corner flusher with a 36" bigshoter mud tube, the ultimate corner sander, stilts, and I'm looking in to a sanding machine


A corner bead crimper? That's whats funny. Throw that thing in the garbage. You might also want to re-consider bringing back the 4" flusher.
That thing's going to be too big and your banjo most likely won't leave enough mud to to properly fill 4" on either side of the tape.
Get a 2.5" or 3".
And why the heck would you look into a sanding machine before buying a bazooka or boxes?
I don't know why you seem to think that coating by hand is the easy part.
It doesn't matter who you are. Coating by hand isn't even remotely near the speed of coating with boxes.


----------



## thefinisher

chris said:


> more forgiving,,, please explain.


My statement was by no means a jab at a standard banjo. Personally, I just think the homax is easier to run and handle than other types. Keep in mind I have only used a kraft banjo and a homax so my results may be skewed a bit. Though the kraft banjo is very well made I do not like the straight blade cutter on the end and would prefer a serrated blade. It "seemed" to me that the kraft would more easily allow the mud to go behind the tape and create more drag. Also, the pull and slap method with a standard banjo to me is slower than zipping along with homax as I can put tape on as fast as I can walk. I also like having a knife in my hand to cut the tape as I can walk into a room and tape the butts and wipe the tops of them and immediately run the flats as well. Same thing with running 3 ways, I can cut and wipe into the corner a bit and then run my next tape. This makes it easier to come back and wipe the angles. Again, this is all personal preference and I am by no means knocking a regular banjo. I just feel I am much faster with a homax.


----------



## chris

Paravain said:


> Staples in to studs lol thats funny, no I use a regular staple gun with 3/8 10mm T50 staples but I just made an upgrade to all my tools with a Banjo, a corner bead crimp, a corner roller, a 4" direct corner flusher with a 36" bigshoter mud tube, the ultimate corner sander, stilts, and I'm looking in to a sanding machine


 upload some pics of your new tools, we like pictures, and It would help me to believe you are for real


----------



## McCallum and Sons

Paravain said:


> Staples in to studs lol thats funny, no I use a regular staple gun with 3/8 10mm T50 staples but I just made an upgrade to all my tools with a Banjo, a corner bead crimp, a corner roller, a 4" direct corner flusher with a 36" bigshoter mud tube, the ultimate corner sander, stilts, and I'm looking in to a sanding machine


If you use a crimper, you should glue it, screw it or tape it. You CAN use a pneumatic stapler if it is wood studs, the staples are 1 1/4" and they go into the wood. I have put on hundreds of cases of metal with this method. Everyone on here is giving you good advice, especially Precision Taping. I would also buy a bazooka, pump and boxes before a sanding machine, they would pay for themselves within a couple of jobs. After you get frustrated from making $4.50 an hour on that 1,000 sheeter, send me a message and I'll buy those tools from you.


----------



## moore

Paravain said:


> , stilts


Would that be the first pair you ever owned ?


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> Would that be the first pair you ever owned ?


Yes, I use a taper baker mostly I know I will have to get use to them but every one learns some time.

What would be the most recommended grid sandpaper to use on a sandind machine?


----------



## sdrdrywall

Start off with 220 run the sander slow and work the speed up as you become more comfortable with it I use 180 depending on the mud if its midweight for finish little lower if lightweight little higher grit


----------



## McCallum and Sons

If you can't find 60 grit, get some 80 grit. You don't need one of those fancy shmancy drywall sanders, just get a belt sander. If you really want to save some time just caulk your inside corners instead of tape. May I ask you, how did you land this 1000 sheet job?


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> upload some pics of your new tools, we like pictures, and It would help me to believe you are for real


lol You thing im fake, every thing got shipped to me today I won't have till next week but I so have these from home depot and harbor fright.


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> If you can't find 60 grit, get some 80 grit. You don't need one of those fancy shmancy drywall sanders, just get a belt sander. If you really want to save some time just caulk your inside corners instead of tape. May I ask you, how did you land this 1000 sheet job?


Just some one I know that I get side work from.

And 60 grit lol my work comes out smooth it looks like it don't need sanding I always just stick sand my work with 120 sanding screens and a medium sanding sponge, there will be no need for 60 grit I don't think I ever had it use 60 grit and I belt sander lol well now I know your joking. :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

sdrdrywall said:


> Start off with 220 run the sander slow and work the speed up as you become more comfortable with it I use 180 depending on the mud if its midweight for finish little lower if lightweight little higher grit


Thanks I use 120 for stick sanding but using a sanding machine I would imagine I would want to go with a higher grit.


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> upload some pics of your new tools, we like pictures, and It would help me to believe you are for real


Here is the sanding machine I just ordered


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> A corner bead crimper? That's whats funny. Throw that thing in the garbage. You might also want to re-consider bringing back the 4" flusher.
> That thing's going to be too big and your banjo most likely won't leave enough mud to to properly fill 4" on either side of the tape.
> Get a 2.5" or 3".
> And why the heck would you look into a sanding machine before buying a bazooka or boxes?
> I don't know why you seem to think that coating by hand is the easy part.
> It doesn't matter who you are. Coating by hand isn't even remotely near the speed of coating with boxes.


Bead crimper is quick I am not going to worry to much about the bead I am quick with a staple gun I never miss the holes in the bead but a staple gun is good for small jobs.

I am going to upgrade all my tools but a 164$ sanding machine to a 1200.00 3000.00 Bazooka yeah don't have the funds for that yet, but I did look in to it.

Which would you recommend for a corner flusher to wipe the left over mud after rolling out the corners the 2.5 or the 3"?

And what size would you recommend for a corner flusher to finish coat the angles?


----------



## McCallum and Sons

I'm glad that you recognize I was just joking, that's a good sign! All jokes aside, good luck with your job. I would seriously buy at least a 10 inch box, box handle and pump. You can buy them on ebay for pretty cheap. I have always been partial to TapeTech, but if you can get the hang of it, you will make a lot more money. When you're taping just make sure your mud is thin or you will hump your joints before you even coat. I have only used a bazooka so I am unfamiliar with the Mud Cannon and the other tools.


----------



## mld

Please stop calling it a sanding machine:furious:


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> I'm glad that you recognize I was just joking, that's a good sign! All jokes aside, good luck with your job. I would seriously buy at least a 10 inch box, box handle and pump. You can buy them on ebay for pretty cheap. I have always been partial to TapeTech, but if you can get the hang of it, you will make a lot more money. When you're taping just make sure your mud is thin or you will hump your joints before you even coat. I have only used a bazooka so I am unfamiliar with the Mud Cannon and the other tools.


Yeah I checked out the Boxes on you tube I was unaware of such a great tool a must get!!! Question they have the set 10" 12" with the pump for around 1200. which is a great price for the set but for now would I be ok with the 10" with out the pump? till money grows a bit more


----------



## Mountain Man

FYI you can finance a set of tools from all-wall. I would never attempt 100 sheets without my set of Columbias, let alone 2000 sheets!!


----------



## Paravain

Mountain Man said:


> FYI you can finance a set of tools from all-wall. I would never attempt 100 sheets without my set of Columbias, let alone 2000 sheets!!


How is the Columbias?


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> I'm glad that you recognize I was just joking, that's a good sign! All jokes aside, good luck with your job. I would seriously buy at least a 10 inch box, box handle and pump. You can buy them on ebay for pretty cheap. I have always been partial to TapeTech, but if you can get the hang of it, you will make a lot more money. When you're taping just make sure your mud is thin or you will hump your joints before you even coat. I have only used a bazooka so I am unfamiliar with the Mud Cannon and the other tools.


Before I go and order this since I am unfamiliar with the boxes thought you should take a look I don't want to get it when I should of got that lol


----------



## Paravain

I just found a 10" box and 42 inch handle for just over 350.00 
Is Level 5 a good product?


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> Bead crimper is quick I am not going to worry to much about the bead I am quick with a staple gun I never miss the holes in the bead but a staple gun is good for small jobs.
> 
> I am going to upgrade all my tools but a 164$ sanding machine to a 1200.00 3000.00 Bazooka yeah don't have the funds for that yet, but I did look in to it.
> 
> Which would you recommend for a corner flusher to wipe the left over mud after rolling out the corners the 2.5 or the 3"?
> 
> And what size would you recommend for a corner flusher to finish coat the angles?


You clearly didn't look into [email protected] all if you think a bazooka costs between 1200$ and 3000$, yet a power sander only costs 164$!! You're seriously screwing yourself so hard....
You we're smart enough to come on here and ask for help, yet you jump on the first sh!tty tools you can find! You didn't do any research. 
Why wouldn't you ask about what tools you should buy and how much you we're willing to spend.
Any one of us could have given you several different options for whatever amount of money you wanted to invest in tools. All of which would have been better than all the crap you just went out and bought.

I give up on you....
Buy whatever you want...
Hey look!! This is even cheaper!! Buy this!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-3-in-x-21-in-Dragster-Belt-Sander-DS321-1/100348934


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> I don't want to get it when I should of got that lol


Then you should throw out that p!ece of sh!t sander


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> Then you should throw out that p!ece of sh!t sander


Really that sander is that bad?


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> You clearly didn't look into [email protected] all if you think a bazooka costs between 1200$ and 3000$, yet a power sander only costs 164$!! You're seriously screwing yourself so hard....
> You we're smart enough to come on here and ask for help, yet you jump on the first sh!tty tools you can find! You didn't do any research.
> Why wouldn't you ask about what tools you should buy and how much you we're willing to spend.
> Any one of us could have given you several different options for whatever amount of money you wanted to invest in tools. All of which would have been better than all the crap you just went out and bought.
> 
> I give up on you....
> Buy whatever you want...
> Hey look!! This is even cheaper!! Buy this!
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-3-in-x-21-in-Dragster-Belt-Sander-DS321-1/100348934
> View attachment 10004


Well what would you recommend? I know not that power sander lol


----------



## MrWillys

Paravain said:


> I just found a 10" box and 42 inch handle for just over 350.00
> Is Level 5 a good product?


Brandnew, or used? $350 new is okay, but should be cheaper used. You'll need a pump. I once asked an old taper who showed me a few things what would he want if he could have only 2 things? He said a pump, and a corner roller.

RIP Fred Blackard.

Level 5? what do you mean by this?


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> Really that sander is that bad?


Porter Cable = $1,095
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Porter-Cable-Power-ProPack.html








Festool Planex = $1,850
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Festool-Drywall-Sander-Combo.html








Your piece of crap = $164

You tell me.


----------



## PrecisionTaping

Paravain said:


> I just found a 10" box and 42 inch handle for just over 350.00
> Is Level 5 a good product?


How do you plan on filling your box without a pump?
If you're going to buy their tools you can do so right from their site.
http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp
They're cheap enough, you shouldn't have to buy used.



MrWillys said:


> Level 5? what do you mean by this?


Level 5 is a tool company...


----------



## mld

Caught that before the edit, Brian, and quite frankly you should have left well enough alone:thumbsup:


----------



## PrecisionTaping

mld said:


> Caught that before the edit, Brian, and quite frankly you should have left well enough alone:thumbsup:


Hahaha!
I was like "gah...I can't be an asshole..."
I already made Icerock cry and now he's gone :jester:

BUt it's like c'mon now...


----------



## MrWillys

PrecisionTaping said:


> Level 5 is a tool company...


Okay, I thought he meant like USG First Coat or a similar product.


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> Porter Cable = $1,095
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Porter-Cable-Power-ProPack.html
> View attachment 10005
> 
> 
> Festool Planex = $1,850
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Festool-Drywall-Sander-Combo.html
> View attachment 10006
> 
> 
> Your piece of crap = $164
> 
> You tell me.


Yeah that's a bit high I am just a worker with his own tools I don't have my own company with guys working with me and checks coming in I need to upgrade all my tools at one with about $1000.00


----------



## MrWillys

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!
> I was like "gah...I can't be an asshole...


Honestly, too late!


----------



## PrecisionTaping

MrWillys said:


> Okay, I thought he meant like USG First Coat or a similar product.


Ya, it's a common mistake. Kind of a different name I guess


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> How do you plan on filling your box without a pump?
> If you're going to buy their tools you can do so right from their site.
> http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp
> They're cheap enough, you shouldn't have to buy used.
> 
> 
> 
> Level 5 is a tool company...


Wow guess im going to need the pump also Ok so be it, I was hoping I could of waited till I got the 12" didn't know the box doesn't open.

I also notice you play guitar? I been playing for over 20 years


----------



## sdrdrywall

Brian you spent a lot of time in the corner for being mean to others didnt you? I have one of those sanders had it for 5 years . Is it a porter cable no but will it get the job done yes .I keep it as a back up in case my good one takes a crap on me.you have to understand sometimes guys have to work there way up to better equipment I have 4 kids and food comes before tools .we all have different financial respossibilitys. My first set of taping tools were 500 used .maybe hes biting off more than he can chew with this job its really not the place to learn how to run tools .hire a few guys who run them make a few bucks off them and learn what he can from them before he ends up frustrated and kicked off the job.


----------



## keke

PrecisionTaping said:


> Porter Cable = $1,095
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Porter-Cable-Power-ProPack.html
> View attachment 10005
> 
> 
> Festool Planex = $1,850
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Festool-Drywall-Sander-Combo.html
> View attachment 10006
> 
> 
> Your piece of crap = $164
> 
> You tell me.


why would I buy something so expensive when I have this option http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUCH-800...C-SANDERBAGLESS-VACUUM-CLEANER-/141237796754?


----------



## keke

PrecisionTaping said:


> How do you plan on filling your box without a pump?
> If you're going to buy their tools you can do so right from their site.
> http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp
> They're cheap enough, you shouldn't have to buy used.
> 
> 
> 
> Level 5 is a tool company...


there's 3 options to fill the box and 1 of them is this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Quickfill-Drywall-Plaster-Loading-Pump-Flat-Box-Gold-/281289608367


----------



## McCallum and Sons

I'll hang in there a little bit longer. I have never heard of Level 5 boxes, no I would not buy them. If you invest in tools, you need to buy the best that you can buy. Like someone said, do your research. If you buy crap tools they won't work properly and you will have to replace parts etc. which leads to down time and time =money. The sander is garbage, I bought one similar to the one you have that was a "knock off" brand just because it was so cheap and we don't use it at all. If your work is as clean as you say, the drywall sander would be the last tool in my arsenal. As you can afford it, this is the order I would save and purchase my tools. Since you already have a banjo, roller and glazer, next, get a pump (yes you have to have a pump) box handle, and 10 inch box. Next I would get a 12" box and an even longer box handle to reach higher. After that I would save for a bazooka, you can buy a rebuilt for $500-$800, don't forget the gooseneck for the pump. Do your boss a favor and learn to walk your new stilts at home:yes:. Before you ask, a glazer is the same thing as an angle head, when I used to live in Cali, everyone I worked with called it a plow. Good luck** ( I just read the thread on the Level 5 tools, apparently some are familiar with them, I thought they were a Chinese knock off but I stand corrected)


----------



## icerock drywall

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!
> I was like "gah...I can't be an asshole..."
> I already made Icerock cry and now he's gone :jester:
> 
> BUt it's like c'mon now...


I am not gone you little turd:thumbup: and you could not make me cry. 
don't be a asshole little b your no king:whistling2:your just a little **** with a camera.


----------



## icerock drywall

PrecisionTaping said:


> How do you plan on filling your box without a pump?
> If you're going to buy their tools you can do so right from their site.
> http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp
> They're cheap enough, you shouldn't have to buy used.
> 
> 
> 
> Level 5 is a tool company...


very easy little b ....http://drywalltalk.com/showthread.php?t=4893


----------



## Mountain Man

Paravain said:


> How is the Columbias?


Columbia tools are top notch!! You can't go wrong with them!! I took a leap of faith and bought a full set close to ten years ago and the have paid for themselves MANY times over!! Take the plunge, it's the only way to make money in a competitive drywall market.


----------



## Paravain

sdrdrywall said:


> Brian you spent a lot of time in the corner for being mean to others didnt you? I have one of those sanders had it for 5 years . Is it a porter cable no but will it get the job done yes .I keep it as a back up in case my good one takes a crap on me.you have to understand sometimes guys have to work there way up to better equipment I have 4 kids and food comes before tools .we all have different financial respossibilitys. My first set of taping tools were 500 used .maybe hes biting off more than he can chew with this job its really not the place to learn how to run tools .hire a few guys who run them make a few bucks off them and learn what he can from them before he ends up frustrated and kicked off the job.


Thanks that's exactly where I'm at if the sander I got suck's maybe it will still get a few hundred boards sanded then I can pay the rent and look in to getting a better one, but after this job I don't know what else is coming like I said I usually do small 50 to 70 board jobs I go in and tape the job and I also paint I been painting for 20 years taping for about 10 years, I work for a GC I'm am their taper and painter


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> I'll hang in there a little bit longer. I have never heard of Level 5 boxes, no I would not buy them. If you invest in tools, you need to buy the best that you can buy. Like someone said, do your research. If you buy crap tools they won't work properly and you will have to replace parts etc. which leads to down time and time =money. The sander is garbage, I bought one similar to the one you have that was a "knock off" brand just because it was so cheap and we don't use it at all. If your work is as clean as you say, the drywall sander would be the last tool in my arsenal. As you can afford it, this is the order I would save and purchase my tools. Since you already have a banjo, roller and glazer, next, get a pump (yes you have to have a pump) box handle, and 10 inch box. Next I would get a 12" box and an even longer box handle to reach higher. After that I would save for a bazooka, you can buy a rebuilt for $500-$800, don't forget the gooseneck for the pump. Do your boss a favor and learn to walk your new stilts at home:yes:. Before you ask, a glazer is the same thing as an angle head, when I used to live in Cali, everyone I worked with called it a plow. Good luck** ( I just read the thread on the Level 5 tools, apparently some are familiar with them, I thought they were a Chinese knock off but I stand corrected)


You know I would love to go with the best tools but my pokets are not lined like that I need to start some where make some good money then look at upgrading but like I said a lot of my jobs are small jobs I would just do by hand, so yeah I wont be using these tools all the time every job, but when big jobs come in 100 plus boards even tho 100 boards is not a big job to me I find 100 sheets an ok size job.

I found I set of Level 5 flat boxes for 799.00 has a 10" a 12" a handle and a pump seems like a great starters kit.

If there is any one familiar with Level 5 boxes is this some thing I should grab? how is the quality of these boxes?


----------



## fr8train

PrecisionTaping said:


> Porter Cable = $1,095
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Porter-Cable-Power-ProPack.html
> 
> Festool Planex = $1,850
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Dustless-Drywall-Sanders/Festool-Drywall-Sander-Combo.html
> 
> Your piece of crap = $164
> 
> You tell me.


PT, cost of a tool does not equal quality! You may have the extra coin to buy all the high dollar stuff, some of us do not. Both of PAs power sanders, he paid less than $200 for, and they work well enough. 

An auto taper is not a tool you just pick up and run with. He has a 2000 sheet job coming up that he needs to be able to get done, not getting frustrated over how to properly use a tool. If he feels comfortable doing it by hand, more power to him! Where he lives, blue board and veneer plaster are the norm. So cut the guy some slack!

For christ's sake, when you first joined the site, you were doing everything with a compound tube! You came on here, educated yourself, seen that there are other ways to do the job. Now you run a taper, power sander, and all kinds of other things that you didn't even know about before! 

So relax! There are some areas out there that don't even know about auto tools!


----------



## Philma Crevices

Paravain said:


> You know I would love to go with the best tools but my pokets are not lined like that I need to start some where make some good money then look at upgrading but like I said a lot of my jobs are small jobs I would just do by hand, so yeah I wont be using these tools all the time every job, but when big jobs come in 100 plus boards even tho 100 boards is not a big job to me I find 100 sheets an ok size job.
> 
> I found I set of Level 5 flat boxes for 799.00 has a 10" a 12" a handle and a pump seems like a great starters kit.
> 
> If there is any one familiar with Level 5 boxes is this some thing I should grab? how is the quality of these boxes?


http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/level-5-test-4894/
A few of us have tried the Level 5 tools now.

They run, but you will make more money off the standard brands.
If I were you I'd buy a used pump off ebay, might find boxes on there too but.. you don't know what ya kind of condition they will be in and working on them is a bit advanced for you.
Level 5 boxes arent much cheaper than the standard brands either, so might want to spend the 60 or so extra bucks and start with better running tools.

Hell, a 30 sheet job is worth breaking the boxes out for, time is money.


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> I'll hang in there a little bit longer. I have never heard of Level 5 boxes, no I would not buy them. If you invest in tools, you need to buy the best that you can buy. Like someone said, do your research. If you buy crap tools they won't work properly and you will have to replace parts etc. which leads to down time and time =money. The sander is garbage, I bought one similar to the one you have that was a "knock off" brand just because it was so cheap and we don't use it at all. If your work is as clean as you say, the drywall sander would be the last tool in my arsenal. As you can afford it, this is the order I would save and purchase my tools. Since you already have a banjo, roller and glazer, next, get a pump (yes you have to have a pump) box handle, and 10 inch box. Next I would get a 12" box and an even longer box handle to reach higher. After that I would save for a bazooka, you can buy a rebuilt for $500-$800, don't forget the gooseneck for the pump. Do your boss a favor and learn to walk your new stilts at home:yes:. Before you ask, a glazer is the same thing as an angle head, when I used to live in Cali, everyone I worked with called it a plow. Good luck** ( I just read the thread on the Level 5 tools, apparently some are familiar with them, I thought they were a Chinese knock off but I stand corrected)


Well after doing the research I find I don't need a gooseneck to fill a box just a box filler, but with a bazooka but that is some thing I will grab when the money starts coming in, I have liiked in to them and do want one but thanks :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/level-5-test-4894/
> A few of us have tried the Level 5 tools now.
> 
> They run, but you will make more money off the standard brands.
> If I were you I'd buy a used pump off ebay, might find boxes on there too but.. you don't know what ya kind of condition they will be in and working on them is a bit advanced for you.
> Level 5 boxes arent much cheaper than the standard brands either, so might want to spend the 60 or so extra bucks and start with better running tools.
> 
> Hell, a 30 sheet job is worth breaking the boxes out for, time is money.


Yeah but I get paid by the hour not on the job coming up that a side job lol a big side job, but my regular job if I used a box lol id be out of work at 23 an hour I would make little money on a 30 sheet job using boxes


----------



## Philma Crevices

Paravain said:


> Well after doing the research I find I don't need a gooseneck to fill a box just a box filler, but with a bazooka but that is some thing I will grab when the money starts coming in, I have liiked in to them and do want one but thanks :thumbup:


You don't really need a gooseneck to fill a bazooka either, take out the nipple on the box filler and it works fine. Easier with the gooseneck but not mandatory


----------



## Philma Crevices

Paravain said:


> Yeah but I get paid by the hour not on the job coming up that a side job lol a big side job, but my regular job if I used a box lol id be out of work at 23 an hour I would make little money on a 30 sheet job using boxes


Right, if you are at your peak for work coming in I guess it could screw ya. But you could aslo find another contractor to start taking jobs from in the extra time you'll have from running tools. Study to get your license and get your business rolling :thumbsup:


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> Right, if you are at your peak for work coming in I guess it could screw ya. But you could aslo find another contractor to start taking jobs from in the extra time you'll have from running tools. Study to get your license and get your business rolling :thumbsup:


That's true too

Quick Question a corner roller will they fit on your basic long arm, like a painters roller handle, or do you need a special handle that will fit on the corner roller?


----------



## Philma Crevices

get one of these
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Pole-Sanders/Pole-Sander-Adapter.html
they adapt painter poles to fine thread as on rollers and anglehead ball


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> get one of these
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Pole-Sanders/Pole-Sander-Adapter.html
> they adapt painter poles to fine thread as on rollers and anglehead ball


Oh I see so the thread are out and threads in like the home depot stick sanders :thumbup: thanks


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> get one of these
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Pole-Sanders/Pole-Sander-Adapter.html
> they adapt painter poles to fine thread as on rollers and anglehead ball


Does Home Depot carry this adapted? I don't want to pay $11.30 for shipping lol


----------



## spacklinfool

wow! what a thread..im about to do a 300 board standup job...finish to 9ft5in...I am getting 17 per board with all materials being supplied..I will use my tt tools and should have it ready to paint in 6 days with 1 helper with stilts...all cash no ins....have fun!! if you pay for my flight ill help you out..lol


----------



## Paravain

spacklinfool said:


> wow! what a thread..im about to do a 300 board standup job...finish to 9ft5in...I am getting 17 per board with all materials being supplied..I will use my tt tools and should have it ready to paint in 6 days with 1 helper with stilts...all cash no ins....have fun!! if you pay for my flight ill help you out..lol


Flight lol you can drive here I am in mass


----------



## Philma Crevices

fr8train said:


> PT, cost of a tool does not equal quality! You may have the extra coin to buy all the high dollar stuff, some of us do not. Both of PAs power sanders, he paid less than $200 for, and they work well enough.
> 
> An auto taper is not a tool you just pick up and run with. He has a 2000 sheet job coming up that he needs to be able to get done, not getting frustrated over how to properly use a tool. If he feels comfortable doing it by hand, more power to him! Where he lives, blue board and veneer plaster are the norm. So cut the guy some slack!
> 
> For christ's sake, when you first joined the site, you were doing everything with a compound tube! You came on here, educated yourself, seen that there are other ways to do the job. Now you run a taper, power sander, and all kinds of other things that you didn't even know about before!
> 
> So relax! There are some areas out there that don't even know about auto tools!


In the face!


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!
> I was like "gah...I can't be an asshole..."


:yes:

Maybe after you get a few hundred thousand sheets under your belt you'll be more humble. Your still a rookie in my book.


----------



## spacklinfool

Paravain said:


> Flight lol you can drive here I am in mass


sure send gas money!!


----------



## mld

P.A. ROCKER said:


> :yes:
> 
> Maybe after you get a few hundred thousand sheets under your belt you'll be more humble. Your still a rookie in my book.


PT's remark only had to so with the fact that there is multiple ongoing threads that would answer all these questions at the click of a button.
Or that's how I took it 

I admire anyone who has the desire to look and experiment with new ways and tools. The answers are out there, and the guys on here have a wealth to give. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:


----------



## fr8train

Personally, I have very little tolerance for condescending attitudes. The OP came here asking for help, and he got insulted as often as he got answeres. Rubbed me the wrong way I suppose.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

Mld, my point is,,,, I'm pretty sure PT hasn't owned a cheap sander, but he's giving advice on not to get one and spend much more on the top two without having the experience to back his mouth up. 
The fact that there are a lot of guys posting comments treating Paravain like a [email protected] for asking questions that are relevant to him. So you might have experience than Paravain,,, big f*#kIn deal. 
Nobody got where they are without asking questions and making their own mistakes. 
It sucks when you're made an arse of for asking for help.


----------



## fr8train

I think PT, did have a cheap sander, like your first one and sent it to 2buck. Then he had a PC, and it was the cat's @$$, then he got a planex, now it's the cat'[email protected]$$. 

IMO, if the PC and planex are head and shoulders better than the knock offs, and you can afford them, by all means, buy one. But don't sneer at the guys who can't and need to make due with cheaper, "inferior" tools. Fact of the matter is, with the exception of my knives, all of my finishing tools were bought used. Lightly used for the most part, but second hand none the less.

Don't insult someone when you don't know their situation. you don't know what their local rates are, how much competition there is, whether or not the builders in their area may prefer all hand work. 

Reminds me of the old axiom, don't judge someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes. It's called respect, and some ppl just don't have much of it at times.


----------



## Corey The Taper

I live in mass too and let me tell you ive never seen an auto tool in my life not even a banjo and ive been hand taping for almost 12 years and I am 26. Its getting tougher and tougher around here because people are getting into plaster more and more. 22 cents a sqft aint that bad you can make good money off that job even if you do hand tape im sure of it especially if you dont have much work in the first place.


----------



## mld

Fr8, I guess I was more referring to the ongoing childish behavior between PT and Ice.

I have no problem with the OP on this thread. My bad


----------



## moore

I don't doubt the O/P...after seeing his pics..He's a hand finisher :yes:

But I can't get how a field super could let a one man show finish out 2000 boards on a commercial job, even if it is 500 at a time ...Like Chris says those type of jobs have a time line..I've worked Commercial before I'm sure It hasn't changed much all asses and elbows everyone trying to meet their dead lines with more holes being cut out of the drywall after paint than before paint!! 

If Paravain holds the project up! There will be a few trades pissed ..am I right? My advice to Paravain Is to step away from your P/C ,,Take a knee ...and PRAY for some good board and some damn good hangers for those stand-ups . 


I sure hope this Is metal stud work! If It's wood Those stand -ups are gonna screw you !


----------



## intersound2005

What I would say to the op is, big professional sanders should come last. I dont do big drywall jobs, I do other home improvements as well, so a lot of my dw jobs are 30-50 sheeters if even that. My last one was a 85 sheet job and I still just use $20 pole sanders & sponges. With my limited tool arsenal, I need to spend more money on things like compound tubes, tin flushers, things that make a nicer finish that will result in needing LESS sanding. Forget top dollar mud runners & mud pumps when a compound tube will do to get started. 
Its expensive, I bought most of my flat boxes & angle applicators used to get me started. 
These tools really are essential in making a drywaller money because around here there is almost no way you can make money hand finishing. 
It blew me away when I used my first flat box, never did anything so easy in my life. 
When I got started on the box & angle head, it took some time with the learning curve & mud consistancy.
Be careful buying used though, a lot of them are tired old boxes & heads needing rebuilt, as I experienced


----------



## mld

As long as I've weighed in and not given any helpful info, I'll give my two cents on how I would get the most bang for my buck on tools.

First, buy a banjo, fastest economical way to tape IMO.
Next, a compound tube. You can use it to fill your banjo and boxes, run bead and angles.
For angles The most important tool in my opinion is a roller even if you're wiping and filling by hand. Next would be a flusher or angle head and corner applicator for finishing angles with a compound tube. Also you would need a ball end handle to put your flusher/angle head on. Two sizes of heads would be nice but you can also just run twice with the same head or wipe with a knife and finish with the head.
The first flat box I would buy would be a 10", and an adjustable handle.
Here is why. You can block out your flats with it and finish by hand or block by hand and finish with the10" box, although with all the crappy board finishing with a 10" box is less and less feasible. Note, you can easily use a compound tube to fill your first boxes with a little creativity.

Now you are teetering on the brink and will be into the realm of bazooka, pumps, more angle heads, bead heads, Sanders, etc. Etc. Have fun, and if anything I commented on previously offended you my sincere apologies:thumbsup:


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Staples in to studs lol thats funny, no I use a regular staple gun with 3/8 10mm T50 staples but I just made an upgrade to all my tools with a Banjo, a corner bead crimp, a corner roller, a 4" direct corner flusher with a 36" bigshoter mud tube, the ultimate corner sander, stilts, and I'm looking in to a sanding machine


For the future, if you really do want to do a tool upgrade that makes most sense: You should've asked before buying the 4" direct flusher, bigshot tube and ultimate corner sander.


----------



## moore

Ya'll being mighty hard on PT.


----------



## Corey The Taper

JustMe said:


> For the future, if you really do want to do a tool upgrade that makes most sense: You should've asked before buying the 4" direct flusher, bigshot tube and ultimate corner sander.


So you dont recommend getting a compound tube as an upgrade from hand taping. I was going to get a columbia or blueline 42 inch tube with a corner roller and 2.5 flusher and 3.5 flusher. Im trying to reduce stress on my body im 26 and have a hernia and carpal tunnel and both my hands. Jusy want peoples opinions since funds are tight right now so trying to get things slowly and only reason I kind of dont want corner boxes is because alot of people on here say you need to put alot of force into the corner.


----------



## JustMe

Corey The Taper said:


> So you dont recommend getting a compound tube as an upgrade from hand taping.


Where did I recommend not to get a compound tube.


----------



## Corey The Taper

You said he shouldve asked before buying the stuff bigshot tube included or did you just mean the brand and not the tubes itself


----------



## JustMe

The brand.


----------



## moore

Corey The Taper said:


> alot of people on here say you need to put alot of force into the corner.


With your back not your hands .. 

A hernia at 26 ? That sucks brother! Please get that taken care of before it causes some real issues ...


----------



## Magic

You ladies settle down... Just imagine the mess the OP must have on his hands about now


----------



## Corey The Taper

moore said:


> With your back not your hands ..
> 
> A hernia at 26 ? That sucks brother! Please get that taken care of before it causes some real issues ...


Lol thanks ya I got it checked he said its still small to operate on its in my belly button. Does anyone do corners with a tube and flusher and use flat boxes. I was thinking of going that route instead of getting a corner box. Also is 22 cents a sqft that bad I mean i get 33 for residential and I can finish 140 sheets in about 40 to 48 hrs hand taping I do have a pc sander tho and use all stilts no bakers only in garage


----------



## mld

Magic said:


> You ladies settle down... Just imagine the mess the OP must have on his hands about now


:w00t::w00t:


----------



## chris

Paravain said:


> Yeah that's a bit high I am just a worker with his own tools I don't have my own company with guys working with me and checks coming in I need to upgrade all my tools at one with about $1000.00


 Keep your banjo, its a cheaper one but will work just fine. If you dont get an anglehead and roller at the same time IMO you are defeating the purpose.Get both. You can get the roller and pole used but buy the head new . Get a 3 inch. With remaining $$ get a box and pump,and handle . Buy new. If all you can afford is the Level 5 brand then so be it. Im sure the pump will last ( thats a guess, but its a pump:blink and the box will surely save time and get alot of mud on the walls quick. I would get an 8" box. With all those flats there is no need to over do it. 1rst coat with your box and 2nd coat by hand.


----------



## sdrdrywall

P.A. ROCKER said:


> :yes:
> 
> Maybe after you get a few hundred thousand sheets under your belt you'll be more humble. Your still a rookie in my book.


20+ hard years of drywall will take the attitude out of ya:yes:


----------



## gazman

Philma Crevices said:


> You don't really need a gooseneck to fill a bazooka either, take out the nipple on the box filler and it works fine. Easier with the gooseneck but not mandatory


This method will work with all bazookas except Blue line/ Tape Pro. They have a larger filler nozel and will not fit.


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> I live in mass too and let me tell you ive never seen an auto tool in my life not even a banjo and ive been hand taping for almost 12 years and I am 26. Its getting tougher and tougher around here because people are getting into plaster more and more. 22 cents a sqft aint that bad you can make good money off that job even if you do hand tape im sure of it especially if you dont have much work in the first place.


What part of mass you from? not to be off topic lol


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> Keep your banjo, its a cheaper one but will work just fine. If you dont get an anglehead and roller at the same time IMO you are defeating the purpose.Get both. You can get the roller and pole used but buy the head new . Get a 3 inch. With remaining $$ get a box and pump,and handle . Buy new. If all you can afford is the Level 5 brand then so be it. Im sure the pump will last ( thats a guess, but its a pump:blink and the box will surely save time and get alot of mud on the walls quick. I would get an 8" box. With all those flats there is no need to over do it. 1rst coat with your box and 2nd coat by hand.


I got all that on its way :thumbup:


----------



## gazman

mld said:


> For angles The most important tool in my opinion is a roller even if you're wiping and filling by hand. Next would be a flusher or angle head and corner applicator for finishing angles with a compound tube:


This is one of the cheapest semi machine ways of taping angles. 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kY4bTjfvjss


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> For the future, if you really do want to do a tool upgrade that makes most sense: You should've asked before buying the 4" direct flusher, bigshot tube and ultimate corner sander.


Whats wrong with the mud tube?


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> Lol thanks ya I got it checked he said its still small to operate on its in my belly button. Does anyone do corners with a tube and flusher and use flat boxes. I was thinking of going that route instead of getting a corner box. Also is 22 cents a sqft that bad I mean i get 33 for residential and I can finish 140 sheets in about 40 to 48 hrs hand taping I do have a pc sander tho and use all stilts no bakers only in garage


I will say I am getting stilts but i love my little taper baker it puts all my tools and mud on wheels and up off the floor


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> The brand.


Why so quick to bash somebody with the tools they select, but you don't offer any help? I don't think its to hard to figure out what we are doing here, is it because we didn't ask you? Ok Just Me what would you recommend? Maybe I messed up getting a 4" flusher good thing it was only 70$ so I have a 2.5 on the way what's wrong with the Big shot that tube is 185.00 if I need to spend more for a tube the funds are not there because I am still getting a 10 and 12" box set with 42" handle and pump and I needed stilts and a sander, if I was just in the market for the best brand mud tube maybe I would of spent more money on one, and if the mudshot brakes down on me after a while well good thing it was only 185.00 I'm sure it will pay for its self before it brakes down.

Or if there is more please tell me why that brand sucks dont just tell me it sucks to me thats just your option.


----------



## gluedandscrewed

I have used an aleko sander for over a year with no problems. It also has an extendable/retractable pole that gets into places the porter cable can't.

It is that awful bright orange color which screams harbor freight, but other than that it works fine.

If you have a ames tool rental around consider renting boxes and a bazooka. The bazooka is about 60 bucks a week and 40 for a box.

I


----------



## gazman

Paravain said:


> Why so quick to bash somebody with the tools they select, but you don't offer any help? I don't think its to hard to figure out what we are doing here, is it because we didn't ask you? Ok Just Me what would you recommend? Maybe I messed up getting a 4" flusher good thing it was only 70$ so I have a 2.5 on the way what's wrong with the Big shot that tube is 185.00 if I need to spend more for a tube the funds are not there because I am still getting a 10 and 12" box set with 42" handle and pump and I needed stilts and a sander, if I was just in the market for the best brand mud tube maybe I would of spent more money on one, and if the mudshot brakes down on me after a while well good thing it was only 185.00 I'm sure it will pay for its self before it brakes down.
> 
> Or if there is more please tell me why that brand sucks dont just tell me it sucks to me thats just your option.


Hey mate use the search function. And before you bag out a respected member just consider that he may actually have a life that does not revolve around answering your questions.


----------



## Paravain

gazman said:


> Hey mate use the search function. And before you bag ousubmit replypected member just consider that he may actually have a life that does not revolve around answering your questions.


Sorry I understand that I have a life also, just I find if you can hit that submit reply button to say, hay that brand sucks. Then you can add

Hay that brand sucks you should of got a Wagner lol I'm only saying


----------



## Paravain

Im not sure how this thread got way off topic any ways it was just simply about if I was getting screwed for the price of boards and turn in to a discussion thread which is fine maybe I should get a moderator or admin to retitle this thread "The Tapers Lounge" which is a cool title


----------



## RenoRob

Paravain said:


> Sorry I understand that I have a life also, just I find if you can hit that submit reply button to say, hay that brand sucks. Then you can add
> 
> Hay that brand sucks you should of got a Wagner lol I'm only saying


At the same time you could take a bit more initiative and search through the site like everyone does. Then you might realize, at the very least, what the recommended brands are. There are tons of posts covering different brands, pros/cons, preferred methods etc. Start reading man.


----------



## RenoRob

Paravain said:


> Im not sure how this thread got way off topic any ways it was just simply about if I was getting screwed for the price of boards and turn in to a discussion thread which is fine maybe I should get a moderator or admin to retitle this thread "The Tapers Lounge" which is a cool title



I believe the TSN Turning Point came in your second post. 

"I am just going to tape [2000 boards] with a tape holder on my belt, 6 inch knife with a 12 inch trowel then sand between coats"


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Why so quick to bash somebody with the tools they select, but you don't offer any help? I don't think its to hard to figure out what we are doing here, is it because we didn't ask you? Ok Just Me what would you recommend?


Right. I'm mad because I wasn't asked. 

Like gazman said, I have another life. But I thought to point out that in the future you might want to ask Before buying particular brands, and particular tool types and sizes. That was my one recommendation.

gaz and RenoRob have it right. Start using the search box in the upper right corner of the screen as well. Try such as 'compound tube', 'direct flusher', 'banjo', 'stilts' for some search terms, to help with finding out what to buy.


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Right. I'm mad because I wasn't asked.
> 
> Like gazman said, I have another life. But I thought to point out that in the future you might want to ask Before buying particular brands, and particular tool types and sizes. That was my one recommendation.
> 
> gaz and RenoRob have it right. Start using the search box in the upper right corner of the screen as well. Try such as 'compound tube', 'direct flusher', 'banjo', 'stilts' for some search terms, to help with finding out what to buy.


Think I'm done posting here, I really hate drama you all take it easy


----------



## Paravain

One more thing I only said some thing because I seen the same thing happening to Corey The Taper 
so don't start putting me down

And it also doesn't matter I understand that brand is important the best paint brush is a Purdy but that does not mean a Wooster wont work just as will, I was looking into upgrades yes but how do you search flusher if you never heard of a flusher? Looking for upgrades I can't put all my eggs in one basket I only have so much money to put in to upgrades I have a life also with bill I must pay which I mention before so yes I do need to go with tools that I can make some quick money, so I need to go with a 160. Power sander as opposed to a 1000$ power sander it sucks but I'm sure it will get the job done faster then a stick sander, I can upgrade that down the road when I'm in the market for one, but mainly it would help as some help earlier in the thread to get a box and a flusher and thats what I did, but I also looked in to some thing i can afford, just seems people that have the prudy paint brush can put down the people that have a wooster even tho its all they can get at the time

Sorry for getting a little upset I understand Tape Tech is a real good product but the price for me is a bit high, thats why I'm going with Level 5 boxes


----------



## Paravain

Sometimes I just like to act out on anger no big thing, you guys are right I could use the search, but in my mind I'm right because I can't afford the high end tools, but I know I do need a 2.5 flusher its on the way, and I know I can still use the 4" flusher for finish and maybe when the checks come in I will get a corner edger but any ways I'm going on and on about the same ****.


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Right. I'm mad because I wasn't asked.
> 
> Like gazman said, I have another life. But I thought to point out that in the future you might want to ask Before buying particular brands, and particular tool types and sizes. That was my one recommendation.
> 
> gaz and RenoRob have it right. Start using the search box in the upper right corner of the screen as well. Try such as 'compound tube', 'direct flusher', 'banjo', 'stilts' for some search terms, to help with finding out what to buy.


I never said you were mad just want to point that out.

Sorry I posted that last night anyways this is a new day forgive and forget


----------



## chris

Not to change the subject or anything but you mentioned firetaping above the 10' mark. How high above the 10' does it go. Approx. how much board do you have to firetape?


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> Not to change the subject or anything but you mentioned firetaping above the 10' mark. How high above the 10' does it go. Approx. how much board do you have to firetape?


Im not sure I really need to go look at this job I'm communicating with him via. Text message and he never got back to me on that I'm hoping a 10 footer cut down so I only have that one butt end I'm sure it is but never know, lol knowing my luck it will be 22' lol but I'm sure it will most likely be 18' high

Also not sure about how many boards but I'm sure its just the exterior wall its all office space not sure if there is any demising walls


----------



## fr8train

Paravain said:


> Im not sure how this thread got way off topic any ways it was just simply about if I was getting screwed for the price of boards and turn in to a discussion thread which is fine maybe I should get a moderator or admin to retitle this thread "The Tapers Lounge" which is a cool title


Welcome to drywall talk. We are the kings of off topic!


----------



## MrWillys

Paravain said:


> Im not sure I really need to go look at this job I'm communicating with him via. Text message and he never got back to me on that I'm hoping a 10 footer cut down so I only have that one butt end I'm sure it is but never know, lol knowing my luck it will be 22' lol but I'm sure it will most likely be 18' high
> 
> Also not sure about how many boards but I'm sure its just the exterior wall its all office space not sure if there is any demising walls


 This type of work is dependent on penetrations (how many fawking pipes), and access to the work area. Open is really easy, and stuffed full of crap with little access crawling around like a monkey takes time. The answer would be to ask estimator to use his best judgment, because without being able to see it, it is difficult to guess.


----------



## Paravain

MrWillys said:


> This type of work is dependent on penetrations (how many fawking pipes), and access to the work area. Open is really easy, and stuffed full of crap with little access crawling around like a monkey takes time. The answer would be to ask estimator to use his best judgment, because without being able to see it, it is difficult to guess.


Oh yeah I know been I been in areas where the only way to get at is to leave the lift and climb up in the pipes and duck work places that I can't possible fit in lol taping my knife to a stick lol all kinds of ****, But this is office space should be easy, the areas I speak of were pharmaceutical labs this place had duck work you can walk in and the pipes some areas had so many pips you could not see the decking I believe I still have some pics I will check


----------



## chris

Without seeing its hard to help you . If its as easy as expected, make up a list of tools ( after researching) and charge that amount for the firetaping


----------



## Mountain Man

Sanding 500 sheets tomorrow. No "power sander" needed. Just my trusty pile sander and a box of paper lol!!!


----------



## Paravain

Here area the pics I could find, oh and I love taping in the cold lol, and I think we all know who the big rat is lol


----------



## Paravain

Mountain Man said:


> Sanding 500 sheets tomorrow. No "power sander" needed. Just my trusty pile sander and a box of paper lol!!!


Oh yeah I been there, But always comes out sweet when I sand by hand but I do always say "There has to be an easier way"


----------



## Paravain

Mite I add if you see all them pipes in the picture yeah that was not fire taping that all had to be finished taped and painted

Now it was taped and painted before all them pipes went in but there was so much to fix after which we can all relate too


----------



## chris

Eww, thats some tuff firetaping I would try and get in as soon as the hanging was done, try c try charging the same for all board. Lift work is real slow


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> Eww, thats some tuff firetaping I would try and get in as soon as the hanging was done, try c try charging the same for all board. Lift work is real slow


Yeah that was about 6 years ago I was working for a taping company then, I have not worked for a taping company in years but year that was all by the hour


----------



## Paravain

PrecisionTaping said:


> You clearly didn't look into [email protected] all if you think a bazooka costs between 1200$ and 3000$, yet a power sander only costs 164$!! You're seriously screwing yourself so hard....
> You we're smart enough to come on here and ask for help, yet you jump on the first sh!tty tools you can find! You didn't do any research.
> Why wouldn't you ask about what tools you should buy and how much you we're willing to spend.
> Any one of us could have given you several different options for whatever amount of money you wanted to invest in tools. All of which would have been better than all the crap you just went out and bought.
> 
> I give up on you....
> Buy whatever you want...
> Hey look!! This is even cheaper!! Buy this!
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-3-in-x-21-in-Dragster-Belt-Sander-DS321-1/100348934
> View attachment 10004


Just putting this out there me and Brain talked on the phone last night for a half hour every thing is cool, I never took offense to this post I really thought it was funny, but it also showed me that he really wanted to help, and I will relate to his post in the future because I wouldn't want to see any one making the same mistakes I have, I don't think I made to many mistakes just got the wrong size flusher, I am just trying to do the best I can with the money I have.

So lets stop being ****'s to eachother we are all fellow tapers and we are not competing against eachother, just a network of tapers across the world.

Im going to quote Bob Marley when I say: "Don't worry about a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right.
Read more: Bob Marley - Everythings Gonna Be Alright Lyrics | MetroLyrics 
​


----------



## Kiwiman

Mountain Man said:


> Sanding 500 sheets tomorrow. No "power sander" needed.* Just my trusty pile sander *and a box of paper lol!!!


You mountain men must be tough if you sand the flamin things off inch:
Try this instead .....


----------



## Paravain

Kiwiman said:


> You mountain men must be tough if you sand the flamin things off inch:
> Try this instead .....


Your reason for editing: lol I usually upload my images to photobucket and copy the BB Image Code from there and paste it in forums unless im laze then I just add attachment lol but some time that makes mr think photobucket would of been easier lol you can't win


----------



## McCallum and Sons

Paravain said:


> Thanks that's exactly where I'm at if the sander I got suck's maybe it will still get a few hundred boards sanded then I can pay the rent and look in to getting a better one, but after this job I don't know what else is coming like I said I usually do small 50 to 70 board jobs I go in and tape the job and I also paint I been painting for 20 years taping for about 10 years, I work for a GC I'm am their taper and painter


I guess when it comes to the cheaper sanders it's kind of a crap shoot. The one I bought doesn't seem like it's balanced right and the head is kind of heavy and awkward and was digging in on one side, so I gave up on it pretty quick. I have had a couple of the Porter Cable over the years, when I first got one I used it a lot but we always go over it by hand anyway, so we just sand with the Trim Tex pole and Radius 360 and sponges, unless dust is an issue. I think the cheap one I bought was like $180.00 and is orange and the motor is on the head and the motor looks like a drill motor. If those pictures are of your work, it looks like you know how to finish. I honestly thought you had never finished before or were joking at first, (What's better, $8.00 a sheet or .20 a foot? ) that gave me a good laugh! But it looks like you got some really good advice. Good luck


----------



## Corey The Taper

Im from somerset area and I was gonna post something similiar to this because ive never seen an auto tool in my life and was looking for a way to make working easier without spending a ton of money and upgrade afterwards. So thank you for asking for me


----------



## Corey The Taper

And I have a portercable sander but its about to **** the bed. Ive fixed it about 3 times so let me know how that sander is might get one for my pc ****s the bed till I fix it again dont really have much time to fix stuff right now


----------



## Paravain

McCallum and Sons said:


> I guess when it comes to the cheaper sanders it's kind of a crap shoot. The one I bought doesn't seem like it's balanced right and the head is kind of heavy and awkward and was digging in on one side, so I gave up on it pretty quick. I have had a couple of the Porter Cable over the years, when I first got one I used it a lot but we always go over it by hand anyway, so we just sand with the Trim Tex pole and Radius 360 and sponges, unless dust is an issue. I think the cheap one I bought was like $180.00 and is orange and the motor is on the head and the motor looks like a drill motor. If those pictures are of your work, it looks like you know how to finish. I honestly thought you had never finished before or were joking at first, (What's better, $8.00 a sheet or .20 a foot? ) that gave me a good laugh! But it looks like you got some really good advice. Good luck


Thanks oh my work comes out beautiful but thats by hand I never used a box hopfully the finish will come out just as beautiful I don't need to do much sanding when I tape by hand, that picture of the cloud thats not finish coat that picture is only 2 coats if you look on the right side there is a butt end not even coated yet.

But thanks I appreciate the compliments :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> Im from somerset area and I was gonna post something similiar to this because ive never seen an auto tool in my life and was looking for a way to make working easier without spending a ton of money and upgrade afterwards. So thank you for asking for me


Oh right near Taunton ok I am over here in Millbury, I am grabing the level 5 boxes I got good words about them you may want to look in to them also I wouldn't worry about the bigshot mud tube if you ordered it all ready if you didn't you can go with the Columbia its like 20$ more, I am getting the Bigshot mud tube myself 

Here is the link for Level 5 http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp


----------



## Corey The Taper

Ya I was considering the bte set but going with a better brand is only a few bucks more. Idk what brand boxes yet I want probably columbia was considering level 5 too but not much reviews or videos on youtube plus I never used one so I wouldnt know if it was doing what its supposed to lol. What size flushers are you getting I was going to get a 4 inch to but I read on another thread that is too wide. I guess we are used to 6 inch knives each side. Ill prob get a 2.5 and 3.5


----------



## mld

Paravain said:


> Oh right near Taunton ok I am over here in Millbury, I am grabing the level 5 boxes I got good words about them you may want to look in to them also I wouldn't worry about the bigshot mud tube if you ordered it all ready if you didn't you can go with the Columbia its like 20$ more, I am getting the Bigshot mud tube myself
> 
> Here is the link for Level 5 http://www.level5tools.com/default.asp


Word on mud tubes..

Once you have you will buy more! I have used several kinds including the bigshot and the Columbia. My go to tube now is the 24" tapepro/blueline. I would recommend this tube over any other. Search tape pro compound tube in the search function.:thumbsup:


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> Ya I was considering the bte set but going with a better brand is only a few bucks more. Idk what brand boxes yet I want probably columbia was considering level 5 too but not much reviews or videos on youtube plus I never used one so I wouldnt know if it was doing what its supposed to lol. What size flushers are you getting I was going to get a 4 inch to but I read on another thread that is too wide. I guess we are used to 6 inch knives each side. Ill prob get a 2.5 and 3.5


Yeah I know Tape Tech seems to be the best but for a 10" 12" handle and a pump Tape Tech wants over 1300.00 where for the same stuff from level 5 $850.00 Columbia is in between some where its up to you on what you want to spend I think from what I seen them 3 are the ones to go for.


----------



## Paravain

mld said:


> Word on mud tubes..
> 
> Once you have you will buy more! I have used several kinds including the bigshot and the Columbia. My go to tube now is the 24" tapepro/blueline. I would recommend this tube over any other. Search tape pro compound tube in the search function.:thumbsup:


Thanks I will check it out


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> Ya I was considering the bte set but going with a better brand is only a few bucks more. Idk what brand boxes yet I want probably columbia was considering level 5 too but not much reviews or videos on youtube plus I never used one so I wouldnt know if it was doing what its supposed to lol. What size flushers are you getting I was going to get a 4 inch to but I read on another thread that is too wide. I guess we are used to 6 inch knives each side. Ill prob get a 2.5 and 3.5


Actually PrecisionTaping has a level 5 box he gave me a great review about it, no better review then a fellow member on Drywall Talk that uses it daily :thumbup:


----------



## mld

Oh, and by the way, you can get the tapepro tubes from the Trimtex online store for around 150 bucks. 24 or 36 inch.

The 24" er will fill a Kraft banjo or 10" high top box with one pump:thumbsup:


----------



## Paravain

mld said:


> Oh, and by the way, you can get the tapepro tubes from the Trimtex online store for around 150 bucks. 24 or 36 inch.
> 
> The 24" er will fill a Kraft banjo or 10" high top box with one pump:thumbsup:


Yeah I seen that I was surprised to see if that tube is really a lot better then the Bigshot I found it for 180.


----------



## Corey The Taper

Thats good to hear about the level 5 that saves you about 500. Im considering either tapepro tube or columbia with the tapepro glazers as there only about 30 more then the flushers and is name brand


----------



## Paravain

mld said:


> Oh, and by the way, you can get the tapepro tubes from the Trimtex online store for around 150 bucks. 24 or 36 inch.
> 
> The 24" er will fill a Kraft banjo or 10" high top box with one pump:thumbsup:


http://trim-texestore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=253


----------



## Corey The Taper

What size tube did you get im on the short side so idk if I should go big to reach the corners from the floor but then when I suck the mud up wont it be harder for me


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> What size tube did you get im on the short side so idk if I should go big to reach the corners from the floor but then when I suck the mud up wont it be harder for me


I got 36" I think that will be a good size and hold a good amount of mud but I never used one, but I think bigger may suck for hallways and any smaller may not hold the amount of mud you want, may still have a hard time reaching ceilings but if your using a banjo, and stilts your be fine.


----------



## Paravain

But I would see with member that have experience with compound tubes on the size I maybe wrong maybe 47" is what you would want.


----------



## Paravain

I got some thing that is bothering me maybe some one can help me out with this one.

If rock beats scissors how the hell can paper beat rock makes no sense to me


----------



## gazman

Paravain said:


> Yeah I know Tape Tech seems to be the best but for a 10" 12" handle and a pump Tape Tech wants over 1300.00 where for the same stuff from level 5 $850.00 Columbia is in between some where its up to you on what you want to spend I think from what I seen them 3 are the ones to go for.


Just a small correction here, Tape Tech were the best. Their current boxes are not as good. Trust me I bought a set. If I was to buy a new set imo the Tape Pro Booster boxes are the cats whiskers. Columbia are also very good:thumbup:.


----------



## Paravain

gazman said:


> Just a small correction here, Tape Tech were the best. Their current boxes are not as good. Trust me I bought a set. If I was to buy a new set imo the Tape Pro Booster boxes are the cats whiskers. Columbia are also very good:thumbup:.


Thanks for the heads up :thumbsup:


----------



## Paravain

Tape Pro over $500.00 a box


----------



## Corey The Taper

When do you start this job. I looked it up milbury is about an hr away so if you need help im sure we can come to an agreement maybe sub some of it out I got insurance. Right now im kind of busy for about 2 weeks after that I should be ok to go


----------



## chris

Paravain said:


> Tape Pro over $500.00 a box


 They are called Blueline in the states. Tapepro in Australia .


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> When do you start this job. I looked it up milbury is about an hr away so if you need help im sure we can come to an agreement maybe sub some of it out I got insurance. Right now im kind of busy for about 2 weeks after that I should be ok to go


I will let you know this ones tough need to bust ass to make any thing I found some one else willing to pay 12 - 18 a sheet, this week all my automatic tools are coming in then I need to get use to them quick


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> They are called Blueline in the states. Tapepro in Australia .


Oh I see that's better around $300.00 a box :yes: Still I have a set of level 5 on there way a 10" and 12" box 42" handle, with a filler pump for around $850.00 just about $875.00 with shipping not to bad :thumbup:

I won't be using them every day and I don't lend my tools out, so nobody is going to beat on them but me and I take good care of my tools so I think Level 5 will be a good brand for me :yes:


----------



## Corey The Taper

Even if he doesnt that guy said he does 600 sheets a week with auto tools so im sure youll do ok. Im trying to change stuff up ive been turning down alot of plaster jobs so ive been thinking of learning how to plaster plus im ordering the tube and flushers this week too prob gonna hold on the boxes for a house or 2. When u hand tape do you use a 12 inch for 2nd coat then double for 3rd


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> Even if he doesnt that guy said he does 600 sheets a week with auto tools so im sure youll do ok. Im trying to change stuff up ive been turning down alot of plaster jobs so ive been thinking of learning how to plaster plus im ordering the tube and flushers this week too prob gonna hold on the boxes for a house or 2. When u hand tape do you use a 12 inch for 2nd coat then double for 3rd


You a plaster also? I hate plaster lol all house around here gets plaster 

I never plastered but I did work for a plastering company before I didn't like it wasn't for me, I loved drywall taping tho I have a lot of fun with it and im looking forward to learning with automatic tools, and to thing when I joined this site last week I was all about taping by hand lol


----------



## chris

Paravain said:


> Oh I see that's better around $300.00 a box :yes: Still I have a set of level 5 on there way a 10" and 12" box 42" handle, with a filler pump for around $850.00 just about $875.00 with shipping not to bad :thumbup:
> 
> I won't be using them every day and I don't lend my tools out, so nobody is going to beat on them but me and I take good care of my tools so I think Level 5 will be a good brand for me :yes:


 Im sure they will be just fine:yes: 5 year warranty:thumbsup: The only item I wouldnt have got would be the 12" box. I would have got an 8" instead, most probably would disagree


----------



## Paravain

chris said:


> Im sure they will be just fine:yes: 5 year warranty:thumbsup: The only item I wouldnt have got would be the 12" box. I would have got an 8" instead, most probably would disagree


Why an 8"? when I tape by hand I use a 12" trowel for taping and first coat then I use a 14" finish trowel for finish, I thought 10" and 12" was rather small


----------



## moore

Paravain said:


> Why an 8"? when I tape by hand I use a 12" trowel for taping and first coat then I use a 14" finish trowel for finish, I thought 10" and 12" was rather small


With a good recess [i pray you get that] An 8'' on block and 10'' on skim Is all you need. A 3rd coat with 12'' ? optional ! [ Again] I hope your blessed with a good board. If you get stuck with 2000 boards of trash ? I would hate to be you!!!


----------



## chris

Good recess


----------



## thefinisher

moore said:


> With a good recess [i pray you get that] An 8'' on block and 10'' on skim Is all you need. A 3rd coat with 12'' ? optional ! [ Again] I hope your blessed with a good board. If you get stuck with 2000 boards of trash ? I would hate to be you!!!


Yep! Grew up bedding with an 8 and skimming with a 10. 12 was for butts only.


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> With a good recess [i pray you get that] An 8'' on block and 10'' on skim Is all you need. A 3rd coat with 12'' ? optional ! [ Again] I hope your blessed with a good board. If you get stuck with 2000 boards of trash ? I would hate to be you!!!


Yeah aren't we all use to trashy board hangers, boxes blown out because they don't know how to use a zip, screws in crooked so you get an edge of a screw sticking out, they took out a **** load of misses so you have to tap the board in on all that **** maybe they even leave there misses in here and there, yeah I am use to the.

I seen a youtube video with boxes where they used a 10" for first coat and a 12" for finish coat. 

First Coat *Click Here!!!

*Second Coat *Click Here!!!**
 *


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> I seen a youtube video with boxes where they used a 10" for first coat and a 12" for finish coat.
> 
> First Coat *Click Here!!!
> 
> *Second Coat *Click Here!!!**
> *


Are you saying that's how it should be done, or asking, or you're not sure?


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Are you saying that's how it should be done, or asking, or you're not sure?


Just looking for opinions I guess, I never used boxes


----------



## chris

Paravain said:


> Why an 8"? when I tape by hand I use a 12" trowel for taping and first coat then I use a 14" finish trowel for finish, I thought 10" and 12" was rather small


Like Moore said, the flat seams dont need to be coated that wide. That 12" box will break you down on standups. Im just a lil guy though, maybe the big boys have no problems pushing the 12"


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Just looking for opinions I guess, I never used boxes


There's different ways you can run a box - the way they showed, which is how I initially learned, and then there's what I call '2buck boxing'. Take a look here at the image smisner had posted and the 2buckcanuck post he quoted at the same time: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/tracing-behind-boxes-1740/index2/

Do that with your 10" and you should find that unless you have some pretty good shoulder issues, your 12" will finish things off just that much better, less sanding needed, and no hand work should be needed - except the odd spot where you have too much unevenness. Boxes are good for showing those up and you can hand coat them out after.

There's a couple more tricks to doing stand ups that I'll thrown in after.


----------



## moore

JustMe said:


> There's a couple more tricks to doing stand ups that I'll thrown in after.


One being ....Buy a hell bent handle !!! Trust me with all those stand-ups your gonna need one!:yes: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Master-Taping-Tools/DrywallMaster-Bent-Box-Handle.html


----------



## JustMe

moore said:


> One being ....Buy a hell bent handle !!! Trust me with all those stand-ups your gonna need one!:yes: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Master-Taping-Tools/DrywallMaster-Bent-Box-Handle.html


You're right, there. Even with my extendable box handle, it's doesn't seem quite enough at times when I've had quite a few taller stand ups to do and I'm boxing the top parts from the floor as well - not off a stool or stilts. I have an old weight lifting belt I'll also use, then. It's soft and narrow enough that it gets right into the small of my back to give support.

I know you know this, moore, but for Paravain and Corey: I don't care for bent handles, and I think most all here don't, either. Too 'flip floppy' because of the box's weight at the end of a bent handle. But for stand ups, I'd use one, if I had one short enough. The one I have is 6' - an 'experiment', for doing high ceilings. Too flip floppy.

But being able to extend and contract my handle to different lengths when working stand ups I think makes up for it not being bent. People have had problems with extendable handles from different brands. Columbia seems to make one that works well enough. I have an older version one which works well enough. The newer version one seems better than mine.


----------



## gluedandscrewed

10' standups are tough on your back and shoulders from the ground. What I found myself doing was taking one of the springs off the back or the box. Made things much easier (much more messy because the box doesn't retract) but I was able to make it work for me. 

Either that or box off a bench.

If I had 2000 sheets I would make sure to get a nailspotter as well.


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Still I have a set of level 5 on there way a 10" and 12" box 42" handle


With a 42" length handle, one way you can help give yourself more 'push' to get the mud out easier is to lock the handle on your box in place once you've set it at a certain angle on the box, using the handle's brake to do it - a bit of practice will tell you at what angle to the wall is best to lock it at. Then lift your box wheels slightly off the board surface and do your coating. You'll notice the difference in effort needed.

This is handy especially when pulling up from the floor with the box. If you're coming down the wall, the wheels running on the walls should work okay enough for you, at least while boxing the middle part of the board. If you break the coming down the wall into 2 parts, then when boxing the upper part, you might find locking the wheels out will also be worth it for you. Try to keep the wheels at about the same distance from the wall when boxing while they're lifted from the wall.

When I'm pulling up from the floor, I'll also get my body behind my arm to help give some push on the box.


----------



## JustMe

gluedandscrewed said:


> 10' standups are tough on your back and shoulders from the ground. What I found myself doing was taking one of the springs off the back or the box. Made things much easier (much more messy because the box doesn't retract) but I was able to make it work for me.
> 
> Either that or box off a bench.
> 
> If I had 2000 sheets I would make sure to get a nailspotter as well.


I run stand ups with no springs. It does help with the amount of push needed.

If one backs off on pushing on the box lid but keeps going a couple more inches before lifting the box off, things stay clean enough, I found. Also, very little for lift marks left with the box.


----------



## keke

for stand ups this is the best handle in combination with power assist box


----------



## Paravain

Well looks like I will be getting an 8" also, will have to wait till I get that first check tho


----------



## VANMAN

fr8train said:


> PT, cost of a tool does not equal quality! You may have the extra coin to buy all the high dollar stuff, some of us do not. Both of PAs power sanders, he paid less than $200 for, and they work well enough.
> 
> An auto taper is not a tool you just pick up and run with. He has a 2000 sheet job coming up that he needs to be able to get done, not getting frustrated over how to properly use a tool. If he feels comfortable doing it by hand, more power to him! Where he lives, blue board and veneer plaster are the norm. So cut the guy some slack!
> 
> For christ's sake, when you first joined the site, you were doing everything with a compound tube! You came on here, educated yourself, seen that there are other ways to do the job. Now you run a taper, power sander, and all kinds of other things that you didn't even know about before!
> 
> So relax! There are some areas out there that don't even know about auto tools!


Yea P.t,
When did u become like this?
The guy is asking for advice and ur telling him he is a d*ck:blink:
I'm with Fr8 on this!
U used 2 give out advice but as Fr8 says u never run a lot of the tools before u came on here!:yes:
So what's changed that u have 2 take the poor guy 2 the cleaners when he is only askin for advice?
U not got laid lately?:whistling2:


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Well looks like I will be getting an 8" also, will have to wait till I get that first check tho


Since that'll be your 'loading' box, think about spending the few extra $ and make it one of the extra mud carrying capacity boxes. Blueline and Columbia are 2 that make 8"ers like that.

Or if you're thinking to stay with Level 5, looks like they make a 7" like that.

Btw, I used to box 10" and 12", till someone on here suggested trying 8" and then 12". I've switched to that the last while, after trying it.


----------



## Corey The Taper

2nd coat with 8 and 3rd with a 12 and it comes out good? I see alot of 10 then 12. I trowel 12 curved for 2nd and 3rd I double a flat 12


----------



## fr8train

JustMe said:


> Btw, I used to box 10" and 12", till someone on here suggested trying 8" and then 12". I've switched to that the last while, after trying it.


Don't know who that would've been.


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Since that'll be your 'loading' box, think about spending the few extra $ and make it one of the extra mud carrying capacity boxes. Blueline and Columbia are 2 that make 8"ers like that.
> 
> Or if you're thinking to stay with Level 5, looks like they make a 7" like that.
> 
> Btw, I used to box 10" and 12", till someone on here suggested trying 8" and then 12". I've switched to that the last while, after trying it.


That's a good idea getting a box that holds more mud for my first coat box, what brand would you recommend?

And as far as the boxes I have now the 10" and then the 12" does a mint job as well?


----------



## JustMe

Corey The Taper said:


> 2nd coat with 8 and 3rd with a 12 and it comes out good? I see alot of 10 then 12. I trowel 12 curved for 2nd and 3rd I double a flat 12


Comes out good. ("Beautiful" is how the last painter I talked to described the job I left him.) :whistling2: 

Unless there's an uneven board problem beyond the norm, 12" takes care of it for me. I'd even consider 10" if things are looking okay with the board, but GCs here are used to 12", so I give them 12. And the extra couple inches also gives a bit of security that most any joints which are bad a bit will more 'disappear' for sure. The odd area that won't 'disappear' with a 12" get coated out wider by hand.

You could post some pics of what you're doing. Maybe get some input on where you could cut back on what you're doing.


----------



## JustMe

fr8train said:


> Don't know who that would've been.


Neither do I. Someone very intelligent, though. :yes:


----------



## Paravain

Corey The Taper said:


> 2nd coat with 8 and 3rd with a 12 and it comes out good? I see alot of 10 then 12. I trowel 12 curved for 2nd and 3rd I double a flat 12


I use to use a 12" curve then a 14" curve finish trowel for finish but I stopped using them for 2 reasons yeah you can get a nice even coat, but then you have a bump in the wall and the other reason it just takes to long to dry, so I started just using a flat trowel works good I don't have it totally flat on the wall I give the trowel just a slight angle on the top and bottom leaving just a little crease down the middle of the seam that easily sands out, give some time and you can coat the butt ends in the same day :thumbup: comes out mint, I usually paint all my work and my walls are nice and flat.


----------



## Paravain

gluedandscrewed said:


> 10' standups are tough on your back and shoulders from the ground. What I found myself doing was taking one of the springs off the back or the box. Made things much easier (much more messy because the box doesn't retract) but I was able to make it work for me.
> 
> Either that or box off a bench.
> 
> If I had 2000 sheets I would make sure to get a nailspotter as well.


Well my stilts just came in today even if I use them just to save the pain, I have my taper baker to put my mud on so i can reach, Yeah Yeah, but maybe some one would know a good reason why I don't want to do that lol


----------



## moore

Paravain said:


> Well my stilts just came in today even if I use them just to save the pain, I have my taper baker to put my mud on so i can reach, Yeah Yeah, but maybe some one would know a good reason why I don't want to do that lol


After hanging lids all day I'm a little too tired to drop back on the thread to see what brand of stilts you bought.....So what brand of stilts did you buy?


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> That's a good idea getting a box that holds more mud for my first coat box, what brand would you recommend?
> 
> And as far as the boxes I have now the 10" and then the 12" does a mint job as well?


Since you're already dealing with All-Wall, the only 8" extra capacity box I'm seeing there is Columbia's 8" Fat Boy (which is what I'm running): http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Flat-Boxes/Columbia-Fat-Boy-Flat-Box.html

For the other extra capacity smaller size boxes I'm seeing on All-Wall, Level 5's Mega 7": http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Flat-Boxes/Level5-MEGA-Flat-Box.html

And TapeTech's 7": http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Flat-Boxes/TapeTech-EasyClean-Flat-Box.html

If you were thinking to try going like I do now - 8" & 12" - I don't know how a 7" would work in place of the 8". Maybe okay enough? Instead of having 2 extra inches being added to each side on your 12" pass, you'd have 2 1/2". (Unless you're having some uneven board and are using the boxes to feather it out, by boxing more to one side of the seam. That's when the 8" wide's value could especially show itself(?))

With its extra box height, I don't know how 'tilty' an extra capacity 7" wide box might start to get, either. Maybe it's okay enough(?) (Looking at an older std. size 7" TapeTech box I happen to have sitting beside me makes me wonder a bit.)

Not that you need a higher end box for a seam filling/loading box, but if one could spring for the extra $, maybe an 8" vs 7" wide could be worth it to you, especially longer term(?) 
Btw, if no one told you, I think DWT members are getting a 10% discount at All-Wall (and Wall Tools), if you mention you're a member. Someone else can maybe fill you in on that better, though.

On your 10 and 12" "mint job" question, I'll add another post after.


----------



## fr8train

Back in my old job, we ran 7,10,12. Yes, the 7 was a little tricky to get the hang of. It's narrow enough, it's easy to put all pressure on one side and lift the other off the board a wee bit, leaving you with a fat edge. Nothing that can't be fixed with practice though.


----------



## JustMe

Thanks, fr8. I've run the 7" std. box I have very little, using it only for coating No-Coat a bit - I picked up a used set of older TT boxes awhile ago for the material power systems I've been building, and it included the 7". The TT boxes are what I'm using for the systems and leaving my Columbias alone for now.

I do know the higher a box gets in its wall height, the more 'tippy' it starts to get. A high capacity 7" would be trickier than a std. 7", I'm thinking. How much trickier than a high capacity 8"....... . Likely a noticeable difference, but how much........ . I'd prefer an 8".


----------



## JustMe

JustMe said:


> Neither do I. Someone very intelligent, though. :yes:


Btw, fr8, I have a pretty good idea you were the one mentioning it. I saw your comment from a few months ago of 8" and 12" on the 12" video link Paravain had posted.

I agree with your comment on there about them putting too much mud on with that 12".


----------



## fr8train

I think I remember that vid. Perhaps their block coat was REALLY hollow. But, by comparison, if the board is good I can almost get an entire room skimmed with one 12" box full.


----------



## JustMe

I'm thinking their 10" coat was pretty full. No shoulders showing after, and they were running their 10" Marshalltown with a 2 setting. With it being a Marshalltown, it shouldn't have had something like a blade's curve reversing itself problem.

And then they did the 12" on a 2 setting as well, with a Marshalltown. Unless they played with the settings, I'm thinking they had extra hump to sand out. Unless they're of the sort who think leaving some extra buildup on the flats is the way to do things(?)


----------



## mld

To quote the Cap'n " flat is flat is flat"!

My second coat is always an 8" then10" or 12".

Bad rock is a whole different story.


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> And as far as the boxes I have now the 10" and then the 12" does a mint job as well?


A couple things that come to mind for a more 'mint job':

As fr8 and I were saying, box settings are important. Your videos showed them using a #2 setting with both the 10 and 12". (Btw, the higher the setting #s you use the less mud you'll leave. So a #1 or 2 setting will leave more than a #4 or 5 setting. You have to think in reverse on that from what's normal.) If you try boxing 2buck style - leaving the 2nd run till 15-20 minutes later, or more, rather than doing it right away, you can get away with a setting that leaves less of a crown on the mud put down. It also leaves a nicer 1st coat finish.
For me, I'll run on a #4 setting both times with the 8" or 10" of mine, if doing it 2buck style. If I was doing like they did in the 10" video - running the 2nd time right after the 1st time - I'd usually go with a #3 setting. Maybe #4 if the board is level and I want a tight 1st coat.

I don't want buildup so much that I have to sand much before the 12" box run - a light skiff sand is what I want. Otherwise, the 12" blade will pick up dust and can leave you spots where the last coat won't bond because of the dust clumping in areas - usually happens at the beginning of a next run. I'll knife any dust and mud buildup that's on the bottom of the box back into the box at times before a run, to help control that.
Another thing that can be done is a quick brooming of the joints before 12"ing. But I don't often do that. But with your stand ups and 1st time, a little brooming might help you a bit(?)
I'll run my 12" on a #4 setting - unless I'm looking to feather out high sides on the joints. Then #3 is the one I usually use.

Your box settings to best use might vary a bit from mine, but mine could give you a place to start, if your boxes are set up fairly close to mine.


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> After hanging lids all day I'm a little too tired to drop back on the thread to see what brand of stilts you bought.....So what brand of stilts did you buy?


Just a cheap pair for now I got 18" 30" Pentagon Tall Guys


----------



## Philma Crevices

Careful on the cheapy's. I've had the bolts that lock in height adjustment snap on me before.... not fun


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> Careful on the cheapy's. I've had the bolts that lock in height adjustment snap on me before.... not fun


Yeah I can't imagine that would be, how long did you have them? And is that some thing that I should replace? Just get new adjustment bolts? I know the answer would be to get better stilts which I will do when the money comes in, but for now I have to deal with some cheap **** stilts, sander lol then I can upgrade through time one at a time kind of thing


----------



## fr8train

When you go to run your boxes, pick a good seam. Set your box on number 3, run the seam twice. Take your straightest blade and gauge it. Adjust the box accordingly. Ideally, the seam will be full, and your knife will leave a light line across it. Repeat the process with the 12" the next day. Also, do a light sand between coats.


----------



## Paravain

What about flat boxes on cornerbeads?


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> What about flat boxes on cornerbeads?


You can. I free hand my 8, 10 and 12" boxes using no guides (or bead boxers), but it took a bit of learning. If you want guides on an extra capacity box, Blue Line makes them. I don't know how well the guides work, but some on here who've used Blue Line say they're a good box.

You'd have to look at someone other than All-Wall for them. Wall Tools carries them: http://www.walltools.com/products/automatic-taping-tools/flat-boxes/blu-fb.html

Even though Brandon sold out Wall Tools a bit ago (I think), I think they still offer a 10% discount to DWT members. I haven't heard differently, anyway.


----------



## JustMe

Btw, I think those Blue Line guides may be set up to work on only their boxes - unless maybe one gets into modifying the guides or a different box brand a bit, like drill an extra hole or something. Maybe some other box brands holes already do line up well enough, and other ones don't: http://www.walltools.com/products/automatic-taping-tools/flat-boxes/blu-fbbg.html


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> You can. I free hand my 8, 10 and 12" boxes using no guides (or bead boxers), but it took a bit of learning. If you want guides on an extra capacity box, Blue Line makes them. I don't know how well the guides work, but some on here who've used Blue Line say they're a good box.
> 
> You'd have to look at someone other than All-Wall for them. Wall Tools carries them: http://www.walltools.com/products/automatic-taping-tools/flat-boxes/blu-fb.html
> 
> Even though Brandon sold out Wall Tools a bit ago (I think), I think they still offer a 10% discount to DWT members. I haven't heard differently, anyway.


I seen some thing last week but cant find it any where now was a box made just for bead it applied the mud then you just go over it ones with your knife and walk away, maybe the flat box does the same thing?


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> I seen some thing last week but cant find it any where now was a box made just for bead it applied the mud then you just go over it ones with your knife and walk away, maybe the flat box does the same thing?


Don't know of a box especially for bead. Not thinking of something like Apla-Tech's power systems? http://apla-tech.com/

Although they don't sound like what you're describing, the only other thing that comes to mind right now is Bead Boxers. The orange things here: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Flat-Boxes/Beadboxers-FlatBox-Kit.html

Some people say they like Boxers well enough, more don't. I don't like them in part because I like to lock out my boxes and lift the wheels off the wall while boxing bead. Although you have to stop and reset your box/handle angle at times before continuing with a box run, there's less push needed.
But Bead Boxers do prevent your back axle from digging into the bead, so I've used them for that - keeping the boxers off the wall, but if the axle part does come in contact with the bead, it won't damage it. The back axles are the part that chews up bead, if your back axle is rectangular, like most are except I think Blue Line's axles.

I slip a couple u-shaped plastic pieces at times on my axles - ones I made from cutting one side off a square piece of plastic tubing I got from a hobby shop. I was thinking, though, that I might file the backs of my axles round a bit, and see how that worked. Near the wheels, which is the area most likely to contact the bead.
The other thing I've seen do damage to bead is the washers on the inside of the wheels. Rounding off the washers edges might be good to do, too, Especially if just learning, without something like Bead Boxers on.



Paravain said:


> applied the mud then you just go over it ones with your knife and walk away, maybe the flat box does the same thing?


I sometimes box bead with boxes and not touch it with a knife, if conditions are right enough. Or at times I just get the mud on with a box, putting on extra, and then tweak it with a knife after. I like doing that way when the situation makes sense enough, because I can leave it to shrink back a bit for 2 or more minutes by what's underneath absorbing moisture, before finishing it with a knife. The difference shows.

Boxing bead on the undersides of bulkheads is a nice way to go, if you can get the hang of it and reach well enough. My extendable handle comes in handy for that, although I've also done it off stilts. Tougher off stilts.


----------



## fr8train

We've boxed beads on occasion. If set right, it's like boxing a seam. Only need to pick the tops and bottoms.


----------



## Philma Crevices

Paravain said:


> Yeah I can't imagine that would be, how long did you have them? And is that some thing that I should replace? Just get new adjustment bolts? I know the answer would be to get better stilts which I will do when the money comes in, but for now I have to deal with some cheap **** stilts, sander lol then I can upgrade through time one at a time kind of thing


You should get a few months? out of them before you notice any problems. I think moore knows moore about the different brands... I haven't used a pair in years, outlawed out here.


----------



## Mountain Man

Philma Crevices said:


> You should get a few months? out of them before you notice any problems. I think moore knows moore about the different brands... I haven't used a pair in years, outlawed out here.


Whoa stilts are outlawed where you're at?? So Cal right? I wouldn't know how to work without stilts!! I got two sets in my truck that go everywhere with me. Tall boy Dura-4s and baby jacker Dura-3s.


----------



## Philma Crevices

Yep... Cal/Osha blows. 

5ft baker daily and a 4ft ladder sometimes


----------



## Philma Crevices

From California Osha 
*Subchapter 4. Construction Safety Orders 
Article 21. Scaffolds--General Requirements*


j) Prohibited Types of Scaffolds. Lean-to or jack scaffolds, shore scaffolds, nailed brackets, loose tile, loose brick, loose blocks,  stilts, or other similar unstable objects shall not be used as working platforms, or for the support of such platforms. See Plate B-40, Appendix.


Supposed to lock the casters on our rolling scaffolds too...


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> You should get a few months? out of them before you notice any problems. I think moore knows moore about the different brands... I haven't used a pair in years, outlawed out here.


Yeah they are here also, but there are a lot of job where it does not matter, like any where you don't need a hard hat :yes: 

If you don't mind me asking how much do you weigh? I an just over the max weigh on them, that is some thing it said nothing about when I ordered them the max weight is at 228 lbs. and I am just over 230 lbs. 

I figure they must be tested for over 230 - 240 but for safety reasons rate them for 228 lbs.


----------



## Philma Crevices

I was at maybe 180 when using them... graduated from a 6-pack to a keg these days :yes:

It's not so much a matter of being at the weight limit on them, it's the cheap Chinese manufacturing that doesn't hold true to their stated weight rating


----------



## Mountain Man

I'm 225 and am on stilts almost everyday, but I only use dura stilts. Several guys I work around use the $100 stilts, although they are mostly skinny!


----------



## moore

Mountain Man said:


> Tall boy Dura-4s and baby jacker Dura-3s.


I always feel safe on them! And at the end of their life...They don't owe me jack! 

I'm sure we have all owned a pair of cheapo's at some point...My Experience with them Is the bolts are junk metal That tend to break at the worse time and worst possible place while working .. Like stepping off a split plank two stories above the basement floor Then taking two steps over onto a landing and have a bolt break that left me face down on the floor...Two seconds before would have left me face down in the basement...Spending a few extra $$$ on a good pair of stilts is worth It!


----------



## moore

Mountain Man said:


> they are mostly skinny!


160 lbs Soakin wet! :yes: I wear Dura stilts !!!


----------



## moore

Paravain said:


> Why so quick to bash somebody with the tools they select, but you don't offer any help? I don't think its to hard to figure out what we are doing here, is it because we didn't ask you? Ok Just Me what would you recommend? Maybe I messed up getting a 4" flusher good thing it was only 70$ so I have a 2.5 on the way what's wrong with the Big shot that tube is 185.00 if I need to spend more for a tube the funds are not there because I am still getting a 10 and 12" box set with 42" handle and pump and I needed stilts and a sander, if I was just in the market for the best brand mud tube maybe I would of spent more money on one, and if the mudshot brakes down on me after a while well good thing it was only 185.00 I'm sure it will pay for its self before it brakes down.
> 
> Or if there is more please tell me why that brand sucks dont just tell me it sucks to me thats just your option.


Just me Is a pretty sharp ole dude ain't he?


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> Just me Is a pretty sharp ole dude ain't he?


Awww we put all this behind us and moved on!!! :yes:


----------



## JustMe

moore said:


> Just me Is a pretty sharp ole dude ain't he?


Thanks, moore (and gaz, too), for stepping up. Actually, most of you guys have a broader knowledge about drywall than I do (and have been at it a lot longer), so I got to focus on just finishing and trying to figure out what maybe might work better.

Now it's time to take it to the next level - my Bad Board Box Busters.


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> 160 lbs Soakin wet! :yes: I wear Dura stilts !!!


Oh wow I am really going to **** these stilts up lol :whistling2:


----------



## Paravain

Philma Crevices said:


> From California Osha
> *Subchapter 4. Construction Safety Orders
> Article 21. Scaffolds--General Requirements*
> 
> 
> j) Prohibited Types of Scaffolds. Lean-to or jack scaffolds, shore scaffolds, nailed brackets, loose tile, loose brick, loose blocks,  stilts, or other similar unstable objects shall not be used as working platforms, or for the support of such platforms. See Plate B-40, Appendix.
> 
> 
> Supposed to lock the casters on our rolling scaffolds too...


lol Its funny I didn't see a bucket of mud on that list :thumbup:

Your also suppose to put the chain on the hook in the left


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> I always feel safe on them! And at the end of their life...They don't owe me jack!
> 
> I'm sure we have all owned a pair of cheapo's at some point...My Experience with them Is the bolts are junk metal That tend to break at the worse time and worst possible place while working .. Like stepping off a split plank two stories above the basement floor Then taking two steps over onto a landing and have a bolt break that left me face down on the floor...Two seconds before would have left me face down in the basement...Spending a few extra $$$ on a good pair of stilts is worth It!


I could not help but to see line 8 and 10 on the DON"T's




 DON’T… Wear stilts without having the proper instruction on their use.
 DON’T… Wear stilts that are uncomfortable or out of adjustment.
 DON’T… Wear stilts without having properly inspected them.
 DON’T… Wear stilts that have damaged, excessively worn or modified components.
 DON’T… Compromise Dura-Stilts® quality by using componentes fo imitation brands.
 DON’T… Walk on oily or otherwise slippery surfaces.
 DON’T… Walk on sandy, rocky, uneven, muddy, or excessively soft terrain.
 DON’T… Work around uncovered floor openings, stairwells, etc.
 DON’T… Work in or around loose wire, rope, electric cords, paper sacks, broken glass, conduit, etc.
 DON’T… Walk on secondary scaffolding, benches, planks, stairs, steps, stools, etc.
 DON’T… Carry heavy loads while walking on stilts.
 DON’T… Run or walk fast on stilts.
 DON’T… Pick up objects which are lower than foot level.
 DON’T… Wear stilts that are taller than necessary.
 DON’T… Become so overconfident that you fail to exercise caution.
 DON’T… Lean over desks, files, boxes or other objects while on stilts.
 DON’T… Wear stilts while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
 DON’T… Take steps so large that the action springs bottom out.
 DON’T… Modify this product in any manner.


----------



## mudslingr

Well at least I haven't modified my stilts !


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Awww we put all this behind us and moved on!!! :yes:


"We"? "Us"? I didn't know there was a problem.


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> I could not help but to see line 8 and 10 on the DON"T's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DON’T… Wear stilts without having the proper instruction on their use.
> DON’T… Wear stilts that are uncomfortable or out of adjustment.
> DON’T… Wear stilts without having properly inspected them.
> DON’T… Wear stilts that have damaged, excessively worn or modified components.
> DON’T… Compromise Dura-Stilts® quality by using componentes fo imitation brands.
> DON’T… Walk on oily or otherwise slippery surfaces.
> DON’T… Walk on sandy, rocky, uneven, muddy, or excessively soft terrain.
> DON’T… Work around uncovered floor openings, stairwells, etc.
> DON’T… Work in or around loose wire, rope, electric cords, paper sacks, broken glass, conduit, etc.
> DON’T… Walk on secondary scaffolding, benches, planks, stairs, steps, stools, etc.
> DON’T… Carry heavy loads while walking on stilts.
> DON’T… Run or walk fast on stilts.
> DON’T… Pick up objects which are lower than foot level.
> DON’T… Wear stilts that are taller than necessary.
> DON’T… Become so overconfident that you fail to exercise caution.
> DON’T… Lean over desks, files, boxes or other objects while on stilts.
> DON’T… Wear stilts while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
> DON’T… Take steps so large that the action springs bottom out.
> DON’T… Modify this product in any manner.


Good stuff. They don't list wearing the right stilt on the left leg and left stilt on the right leg, like I do with my Marshalltown Skywalkers. Only way they're comfortable for me.


----------



## gazman

Paravain said:


> Yeah they are here also, but there are a lot of job where it does not matter, like any where you don't need a hard hat :yes:
> 
> If you don't mind me asking how much do you weigh? I an just over the max weigh on them, that is some thing it said nothing about when I ordered them the max weight is at 228 lbs. and I am just over 230 lbs.
> 
> I figure they must be tested for over 230 - 240 but for safety reasons rate them for 228 lbs.


 Maybe a diet. :whistling2::jester:


----------



## Paravain

gazman said:


> Maybe a diet. :whistling2::jester:


Actually I am lol I'm trying to get under 200 I was 250 now down to about 235 

Yeah what happened is 2 years ago I quit smoking then I started gaining weight


----------



## keke

JustMe said:


> Don't know of a box especially for bead.


never had the opportunity to see or try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyu2PSnw_4 

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/cornerfast-flatboxes-beadboxes-3337/


----------



## moore

mudslingr said:


> Well at least I haven't modified my stilts !



And I've done that too!:whistling2:


----------



## VANMAN

keke said:


> never had the opportunity to see or try
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyu2PSnw_4
> 
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/cornerfast-flatboxes-beadboxes-3337/


I have 1 in my garage!!!:yes:
Used it once but think my mud was 2 thick!!
Can b used as a normal box 2!


----------



## VANMAN

Here it is!!:yes:


----------



## Paravain

VANMAN said:


> Here it is!!:yes:


Wondering how good it will work and id the guard only on one side? it must be on both side right I am thinking even if you go down on the right side corner beads and up on the left side corner beads you would still have to go up with the right side and down with the left lol :blink:


----------



## Paravain

Tools are starting to come in :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Thanks, fr8. I've run the 7" std. box I have very little, using it only for coating No-Coat a bit - I picked up a used set of older TT boxes awhile ago for the material power systems I've been building, and it included the 7". The TT boxes are what I'm using for the systems and leaving my Columbias alone for now.
> 
> I do know the higher a box gets in its wall height, the more 'tippy' it starts to get. A high capacity 7" would be trickier than a std. 7", I'm thinking. How much trickier than a high capacity 8"....... . Likely a noticeable difference, but how much........ . I'd prefer an 8".


Think I found what I was looking for, let me know what you think about this if your familiar with them.

http://betterthanevertools.myshopif...ator/products/red-diamond-10-bead-pro-flusher

And this is the video I seen using them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_2jrsKeEe8


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## Paravain

Here is the whole kit,

http://www.belmoretools.co.uk/acatalog/Bead_Pro_Kit.html

Oh yeah and 1159.00 pounds is about what 1923.00 in US Dollars

1 Us Dollar Is 0.60 pounds

But I just found it for little over 1700.00

http://betterthanevertools.myshopify.com/products/red-diamond-taping-tool-package-starter-kit

Maybe can still get it cheaper then that.


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## VANMAN

Paravain said:


> Wondering how good it will work and id the guard only on one side? it must be on both side right I am thinking even if you go down on the right side corner beads and up on the left side corner beads you would still have to go up with the right side and down with the left lol :blink:


Yea it has guides on both sides!
Same as the 1 in the pic!!!:thumbsup:


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## Paravain

VANMAN said:


> Yea it has guides on both sides!
> Same as the 1 in the pic!!!:thumbsup:


Ok cool but how much pressure do you need to put on the bead?

Would it still be ok to use a cornerbead crimper?

I know when I use 3/8 staples for my cornerbead the cornerbead goes no where.


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## Paravain

Nice they got here just in time :thumbup:


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## moore

Paravain said:


> Ok cool but how much pressure do you need to put on the bead?
> 
> Would it still be ok to use a cornerbead crimper?
> 
> I know when I use 3/8 staples for my cornerbead the cornerbead goes no where.


You just opened a bucket of worms!!!!


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## fr8train

Paravain said:


> Ok cool but how much pressure do you need to put on the bead?
> 
> Would it still be ok to use a cornerbead crimper?
> 
> I know when I use 3/8 staples for my cornerbead the cornerbead goes no where.



The amount of pressure you need to put behind the box is directly related to how thick your mud is. The thicker it is, the harder the push. I've never boxed over clinched metal bead, I imagine that a first pass with a 10" box would be rather difficult. A lot of mud going on at once, I don't think I would be pleased with the results.

As for the BTE applicators, they are still following them with a knife, but it might be the cat's @ss.


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## fr8train

I would think the guide wheels would mess up the other side.


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## Paravain

fr8train said:


> The amount of pressure you need to put behind the box is directly related to how thick your mud is. The thicker it is, the harder the push. I've never boxed over clinched metal bead, I imagine that a first pass with a 10" box would be rather difficult. A lot of mud going on at once, I don't think I would be pleased with the results.
> 
> As for the BTE applicators, they are still following them with a knife, but it might be the cat's @ss.


I agree with you but its all I think because I have never done it.

And yeah you would use the applicator for the bead then just ones across with the knife, but that would be quick to skip the whole step of putting mud on the bead with a knife and just doing one pass with the knife, and you maybe right with the first coat using the box, cornerbead does suck up the mud. 

But a corner bead applicator on a compound tube may just be the **** :thumbup: maybe other members used them before and know if there worth the money.


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## Paravain

fr8train said:


> The amount of pressure you need to put behind the box is directly related to how thick your mud is. The thicker it is, the harder the push. I've never boxed over clinched metal bead, I imagine that a first pass with a 10" box would be rather difficult. A lot of mud going on at once, I don't think I would be pleased with the results.
> 
> As for the BTE applicators, they are still following them with a knife, but it might be the cat's @ss.


And becareful with that ^ 
Using symbols to manipulate censored words, censored words are up to the admin to decide, and can be against forum rules 

But I wont say nothing Shhhhhh!!!


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## moore

Paravain said:


> And becareful with that ^
> Using symbols to manipulate sensored words, sensored words are up to the admin to decide, and can be against forum rules
> 
> But I wont say nothing Shhhhhh!!!


I don't know how true that Is ...But I got one hell of a laugh out of It! :yes:


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## Paravain

moore said:


> I don't know how true that Is ...But I got one hell of a laugh out of It! :yes:


Oh its true lol 

I am a webmaster/website owner I programed and designed my own website www.armorgaming.com

I founded AG almost 2 years ago to support gaming clans 

I got a good laugh also lol I also know that he is a Super Mod and has the power to Banned member :whistling2:


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## moore

Paravain said:


> Oh its true lol
> 
> I am a webmaster/website owner I programed and designed my own website www.armorgaming.com
> 
> I founded AG almost 2 years ago to support gaming clans
> 
> I got a good laugh also lol I also know that he is a Super Mod and has the power to Banned member :whistling2:


This ain't x box bro! One would half to be way..way out of line before the mods here would ban ya. 



Don't call Silver Stilts a cracker!!!!


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## Paravain

moore said:


> This ain't x box bro! One would half to be way..way out of line before the mods here would ban ya.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't call Silver Stilts a cracker!!!!


Oh yeah I know a good way of getting banned is if you are a threat to the community or if your a spam bot spamming the forums

Im just kidding around tho having fun!!!


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## fr8train

You'll find each of us mods has a different tolerance for things. We did go on a ban spree a while back, lots of spammers that just kept coming and coming, but that seems to have been controlled, for now.


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## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Think I found what I was looking for, let me know what you think about this if your familiar with them.
> 
> http://betterthanevertools.myshopif...ator/products/red-diamond-10-bead-pro-flusher
> 
> And this is the video I seen using them.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_2jrsKeEe8


D*mn.  I was going to say "Maybe Red Diamond bead coaters?", then thought "Naw, not a box." 

I haven't had experience using them, but an online supplier up here (who was also an experienced finisher) I talked to a couple years ago about them said I wouldn't want the kit he had, that he was blowing off on sale to get rid of them.


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## Paravain

fr8train said:


> You'll find each of us mods has a different tolerance for things. We did go on a ban spree a while back, lots of spammers that just kept coming and coming, but that seems to have been controlled, for now.


Oh yeah it gets out of control, I had a question when registering "What Color Is The Sky" spam bots know that **** lol trying different **** I ended up with over 20,000 spam bots I started deleting spam bots accounts and some have over 20 accounts with the same IP address, the text image with the Spam O Matic software I got,

3812 Spammers Denied Registration
21 Spammers Permanently Banned
7 Spammers submitted to StopForumSpam
5 Spammers submitted to Akismet
23 Spammy Posts Automatically Moderated


But like 500 still got through, so I have another random question I put up just simply " What Does AG Stand For" and so far so good :thumbup: Its been a month now and only 2 got through!!! not sure how tho inless there random registries 

No matter anyways I sure its the same thing here if a member is a Newbie they can't post links it gets flaged for Moderating till a member becomes a trusted member which is 9 post on the 10th post a member will be moved to a trusted usergroup.


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## Paravain

JustMe said:


> D*mn.  I was going to say "Maybe Red Diamond bead coaters?", then thought "Naw, not a box."
> 
> I haven't had experience using them, but an online supplier up here (who was also an experienced finisher) I talked to a couple years ago about them said I wouldn't want the kit he had, that he was blowing off on sale to get rid of them.


So that means don't? lol not worth it invest in some thing else?


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## Paravain

fr8train said:


> You'll find each of us mods has a different tolerance for things. We did go on a ban spree a while back, lots of spammers that just kept coming and coming, but that seems to have been controlled, for now.


You should bring this to your webmaster its a mod that I use its awesome and free, it automatically refreshes the thread every 5 seconds this mod will bring the threads alive and since this forums are so active members will love it

http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/product/114-ajax-threads/

The free version is all you need :thumbup:


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## JustMe

Paravain said:


> So that means don't? lol not worth it invest in some thing else?


If one could get a setup Real cheap, just maybe? To try? To put it to rest for yourself?

I wouldn't rush out and buy one, if I were you. Especially not at those prices. My thoughts: Get yourself a bazooka 1st, some good stilts that you feel safe on, maybe a (Columbia) extendable handle at some point, ......


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## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Nice they got here just in time :thumbup:


Now pull the springs off the lids and learn to run them without.


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## Paravain

JustMe said:


> Now pull the springs off the lids and learn to run them without.


Run them with out springs?


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## Paravain

JustMe said:


> If one could get a setup Real cheap, just maybe? To try? To put it to rest for yourself?
> 
> I wouldn't rush out and buy one, if I were you. Especially not at those prices. My thoughts: Get yourself a bazooka 1st, some good stilts that you feel safe on, maybe a (Columbia) extendable handle at some point, ......


That's a good point :thumbup: I do attend on getting a bazooka that maybe after an 8" Box


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## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Run them with out springs?


The story goes (at least the one I heard) is that springs were originally put on the box lids to help keep the lids on - the lids weren't attached to the boxes. Now that the lids are attached, springs are a carry over idea from yesteryear. No springs = less push needed. I can also box cleaner without springs than with them. Eg. Less lift off marks.

From Columbia's website: "Springs not required! Our hinged door design allows for quick cleaning, and the ability to run with or without door springs. Use one spring, two springs or no springs at all!"


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## fr8train

Generally speaking, we do what the springs do, open the box up slightly before running it, helps with flagging, etc etc. But it does make for a harder push. So we take them off


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## Paravain

fr8train said:


> Generally speaking, we do what the springs do, open the box up slightly before running it, helps with flagging, etc etc. But it does make for a harder push. So we take them off


That makes sense


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## Paravain

JustMe said:


> The story goes (at least the one I heard) is that springs were originally put on the box lids to help keep the lids on - the lids weren't attached to the boxes. Now that the lids are attached, springs are a carry over idea from yesteryear. No springs = less push needed. I can also box cleaner without springs than with them. Eg. Less lift off marks.
> 
> From Columbia's website: "Springs not required! Our hinged door design allows for quick cleaning, and the ability to run with or without door springs. Use one spring, two springs or no springs at all!"


That's a good story :thumbup: thanks for sharing


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## moore

;;;;;;;


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## moore

Paravain said:


> [*] DON’T… Pick up objects which are lower than foot level.


----------



## Corey The Taper

moore said:


> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KEJ9iUi6s8


Do you coat your flats by hand


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## Corey The Taper

This is a house I finished today 135 sheets


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## moore

Corey The Taper said:


> Do you coat your flats by hand


Yes and No. I use a 7'' and 10'' box ...When I can. My 3RD coat on seams are by hand with a 12'' broad knife.


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## moore

Corey The Taper said:


> View attachment 10070
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 10071
> 
> 
> This is a house I finished today 135 sheets


Corey ! That looks so pretty ,It's a shame they half to put paint over It!!!:yes:


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## Corey The Taper

moore said:


> Corey ! That looks so pretty ,It's a shame they half to put paint over It!!!:yes:


I can say the same about yours too. I never got used to knives I use them for the first coat on the beads thats about it the rest is all trowel untill I get flatboxes that is lol. Do you hand coat your corners too


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## moore

Corey The Taper said:


> I can say the same about yours too. I never got used to knives I use them for the first coat on the beads thats about it the rest is all trowel untill I get flatboxes that is lol. Do you hand coat your corners too


I'm a dumb arse hand finisher Corey.:yes:


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## Corey The Taper

Me too still havent put my order in. By the time I get out of work customer service is gone.


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## BNW TAPING

The level 5 bazooka is a waste of money got one for $700 didn't even make it too 20,000 sq/f . thats what level 5 is, ****..
Just spend the $ on Columbia wouldn't let you down


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## gazman

It has a 5 year warranty mate. Just contact them:yes:.


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## JustMe

BNW TAPING said:


> The level 5 bazooka is a waste of money got one for $700 didn't even make it too 20,000 sq/f . thats what level 5 is, ****..
> Just spend the $ on Columbia wouldn't let you down


You could try mentioning the issue on a thread that Level5 has been posting to, so that he might more likely read it and maybe help you with it: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/level-5-test-4894/

&/or message him here.


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## BNW TAPING

thanks new to the site didn't even realize there was a whole blog on the level 5 . yeah i ended up getting new parts for it and selling it to a larger crew to try out, they did some tweaking and lots of lube said it wasn't bad for the price but last thing you need is a real important tool to break in the am on the job.. ill stick with columbia bazooka, its a work horse.


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## JustMe

BNW TAPING said:


> thanks new to the site didn't even realize there was a whole blog on the level 5 . yeah i ended up getting new parts for it and selling it to a larger crew to try out, they did some tweaking and lots of lube said it wasn't bad for the price but last thing you need is a real important tool to break in the am on the job.. ill stick with columbia bazooka, its a work horse.


Looks like there's some decent enough reviews at All-Wall on it. Maybe you got less than lucky with it? http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Automatic-Tapers/Level5-Automatic-Drywall-Taper.html


"All-Wall Recommends Level5 Tools for: 




Contractors looking for great value tools
Contractors that are new to Automatic Taping Tools
Contractors that have occasional drywall jobs, and don't want to hire subs or rent tools
Anyone that wants to tape and finish drywall job faster and easier than by hand"


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## JustMe

Btw, one reason I go to see reviews at places like All-Wall is to see if they're consistent with the reviews given here by members, on tools shipped to them for testing. The Level5 reviews seem similar.


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## fr8train

Any brand taper can break at anytime for a number of reasons. What I found to be the most common cause of cable breakage for me, is a faulty clutch. Could be a bad part, or buildup of mud.


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## Paravain

moore said:


> Corey ! That looks so pretty ,It's a shame they half to put paint over It!!!:yes:


I Usually can't wait to see my work painted because I love when I look at my work painted and it looks beautiful :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

moore said:


> 100_0414.AVI THE STILT STICK - YouTube


That is a handy tool :thumbup:


----------



## VANMAN

Paravain said:


> Wondering how good it will work and id the guard only on one side? it must be on both side right I am thinking even if you go down on the right side corner beads and up on the left side corner beads you would still have to go up with the right side and down with the left lol :blink:


Yea it has the part on both sides!!!:thumbsup:
Sorry told u before!!!


----------



## Magic

fr8train said:


> Any brand taper can break at anytime for a number of reasons. What I found to be the most common cause of cable breakage for me, is a faulty clutch. Could be a bad part, or buildup of mud.


You probably already know this but may be helpful to others; cut down a sponge and stick it in the end to prevent the cable unwinding all the way and snapping. I have not broken a cable since I learned this tip years ago.


----------



## Paravain

Well just an update on how the updated automatic taping tools are going.

Its going F'ing sweet every upgrade has been a success big time, the banjo the compound tube, corner roller, corner flush, and the boxes. even just getting use to these tools I love the way the corners look after using the 4" flush to finish them.

The first week 280 sheets taped and coated, 130 sheets ready for finish with all the angles already finished which is 43 angles,

I am noticing I am getting more use to some of these tools, there giving me less of a hard time, and im getting more and more done each day :thumbup:


----------



## Paravain

Not to bad for just getting started, lol but I did just notice that screw in the angle :furious:


----------



## Magic

What number are you running it on? Looks like a lot of mudd in the first picture. 2nd pic is the reason I don't allow stand ups.


----------



## Paravain

Magic said:


> What number are you running it on? Looks like a lot of mudd in the first picture. 2nd pic is the reason I don't allow stand ups.


Im running on 1 till I get use to using the box im still running throught a one over with my trowel when I go over all my screws


----------



## Magic

Paravain said:


> Im running on 1 till I get use to using the box im still running throught a one over with my trowel when I go over all my screws


Zero and one are for butt joints. Try it on 3 and check with a big knife. 
Same thing when you finish coat with your 12" box.


----------



## Philma Crevices

With the Level 5 tools I tested, 3 was great for skims. 0 left my butts waaaay crowned


----------



## Corey The Taper

Philma Crevices said:


> With the Level 5 tools I tested, 3 was great for skims. 0 left my butts waaaay crowned


Are the level 5 boxes good?


----------



## Philma Crevices

They're ok if you don't tape full time, better off getting the established brands


----------



## JustMe

Paravain said:


> Im running on 1 till I get use to using the box im still running throught a one over with my trowel when I go over all my screws


So you decided to take everyone's advice and do the opposite. :thumbsup:


----------



## JustMe

Corey The Taper said:


> Are the level 5 boxes good?


If you tried something like 2buck's boxing method with a Level 5, you might find that you'd get a better result than if you took something like a Columbia and did it the more traditional way(s). Technique can also count for how well things turn out. (A master of the obvious statement.)


----------

