# USG green



## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

A while back I was asking about Pro-Form mud. Considering the feedback and cost savings, I was seriously considering changing from USG altogether. I have stayed with USG so far. This question deals with changes, if any, you guys may have noticed in the past year or so to the performance of USG green. 

About 10 years or so ago, we started noticing that there must have been a change in whatever is added to/taken away from the compound in general. It seemed to dry out much quicker than normal. We are hand finishers and the mud would cake up in the pan much quicker. We began using USG blue across the board. Taping, Bedding, Skim...the works. All blue. While we didn't have any call backs, I knew that green has more glue in it. You can tell by pulling a bit of tape back the next day. The paper would tear on the green but come off clean with the blue. So..........after a few years, I switched back to the old routine only this time I used green, then blue for next two coats......

Well, the ugly green mud has reared it's head again. Same deal, clumps up in the pan. Don't even try pulling a 30 footer on a garage ceiling at once. Dries out. 

Have you guys that use USG green noticed it reacting differently lately? I wonder if they've changed the make up at the plant or something? I haven't found anything online about it. Just throwing this out there and seeing if this is a world-wide deal or just in my area....Thanks guys.


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

I need to add also, that while we do hand finish, I have a guy that can dang near keep up with a guy running tools...yeah, he's that fast. His mud clumps up too.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

eastex1963 said:


> I need to add also, that while we do hand finish, I have a guy that can dang near keep up with a guy running tools...yeah, he's that fast. His mud clumps up too.


Oh Dang, you probably just opened up a big can of worms with that one :whistling2:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

One tube full.: http://youtu.be/ZRV76P4XamY

Running angles in a room demo: http://youtu.be/PFIASKpfVeU

video-2012-03-22-10-12-54.mp4: http://youtu.be/GVZMxDsyDLk


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Not saying a hand finisher/taper can't keep up, but he is working much harder!


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

People that still use hand tools to finish drywall are a perfect illustration of how, "resistance to change" is alive and well in the drywall industry. For god sake learn how to run the tools already. They don't sell them for nothing.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Nick Harmon said:


> People that still use hand tools to finish drywall are a perfect illustration of how, "resistance to change" is alive and well in the drywall industry. For god sake learn how to run the tools already. They don't sell them for nothing.


I disagree with you, to a point. It should really all come down to the scope of the work you do.

If you mainly do patchwork or small additions, there is no "need" for the tools


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

I grew up completely hand taping and finishing. Nobody can tape as fast as someone using a mere banjo let alone a bazooka. Again, nobody can coat as fast as a box either. You may have other points such as quality vs. the two but not speed. Just getting a banjo and flat boxes will increase productivity by 50% I would say.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

To the OP, for the sake of staying on topic just switch to the proform all purpose (black lid). It is a good mud and wont gum up like the USG.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> To the OP, for the sake of staying on topic just switch to the proform all purpose (black lid). It is a good mud and wont gum up like the USG.


....:no:


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

thefinisher said:


> Oh Dang, you probably just opened up a big can of worms with that one :whistling2:


Yeah, I know...lol. Not really trying to say he is as fast. Well, maybe I did say that, but he's fast enough to make me money. No, he's not as fast as a machine. The point I was trying to make is that he's not slow. The mud is used quickly. Quick enough that it shouldn't clump. Not trying to get in a "pissin" contest with anyone and not a hand vs. tool thread either. I know that hand finishing is a dying art. I see that everyday here on DWT. So, instead of dogging me for hand finishing and making a damn good living at it for 35 years, does anyone have the clumping problem with USG? No, I'm not changing to ProForm (my plan to didn't work out)


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

fr8train said:


> I disagree with you, to a point. It should really all come down to the scope of the work you do.
> 
> If you mainly do patchwork or small additions, there is no "need" for the tools


Thanks! We do all types. Hang our own rock too. Stone aged huh? lol. We work longer days but, due to drying time, we finish a job in the same amount of time as a crew running tools. But like I said above...didn't mean for this to be a hand vs. tool thread. Just wondering about the clumping issue and asking had anyone else that uses USG have this problem. ProForm is available here but hard to get.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

eastex1963 said:


> A while back I was asking about Pro-Form mud. Considering the feedback and cost savings, I was seriously considering changing from USG altogether. I have stayed with USG so far. This question deals with changes, if any, you guys may have noticed in the past year or so to the performance of USG green.
> 
> About 10 years or so ago, we started noticing that there must have been a change in whatever is added to/taken away from the compound in general. It seemed to dry out much quicker than normal. We are hand finishers and the mud would cake up in the pan much quicker. We began using USG blue across the board. Taping, Bedding, Skim...the works. All blue. While we didn't have any call backs, I knew that green has more glue in it. You can tell by pulling a bit of tape back the next day. The paper would tear on the green but come off clean with the blue. So..........after a few years, I switched back to the old routine only this time I used green, then blue for next two coats......
> 
> ...


You just described pro-form black top to a T !
N/G black lid changed the formula in 2011 , Its not drying faster! 
The shrinkage Is the problem !! When the bucket is opened The shrinkage begins !! I would guess your dealing with USG advance formula ?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> To the OP, for the sake of staying on topic just switch to the proform all purpose (black lid). It is a good mud and wont gum up like the USG.


How many buckets did you empty out last month? 1?

What are you going by ?? What your workers tell you?? 

This post tells me exactly what you know about the products your using !


Nothing! Get out of your truck and struggle like the rest of us!


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

I like the lightweight. (blue box)


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## MUDBONE (Dec 26, 2011)

It's not easy being green!


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Ive used greenlid for over 12 years and its all I use for every coat. The only time it gums up is if im working near fans or the heat is too hot


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

I use it to tape and texture only. The blue doesn't shrink and easy sanding. Teflon.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> How many buckets did you empty out last month? 1?
> 
> What are you going by ?? What your workers tell you??
> 
> ...


Couple hundred lol. If there is a problem my guys will let me know. I haven't found that the proform black lid to gum up like he is describing. Personally I like the Ruco better anyway. I switch off between the proform and Ruco constantly to examine differences. I'm sorry your struggling Moore. Fortunately we are stocking 4 houses next week. That's a good week for us.


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

fr8train said:


> One tube full.: http://youtu.be/ZRV76P4XamY
> 
> Running angles in a room demo: http://youtu.be/PFIASKpfVeU
> 
> video-2012-03-22-10-12-54.mp4: http://youtu.be/GVZMxDsyDLk


Watch those tails mr. Ha ha. This guys ran some tape before. Perfect illustration of speed and versatility. You're right. I don't use the bazooka any more. I do Fresco Harmony full time. I only own a banjo for patching and small jobs. Works great the 3 or 4 times a year that I need it. Hand tools can come in very handy. No pun.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Yup, I did leave some long tapes in that vid. That taper was new to me, first job I ran with that one. Every taper has it's own personality, they all run similar, but have their own quirks. Not to mention, the camera was on, so of course I had to futz something up! Lol :yes:


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> Yup, I did leave some long tapes in that vid. That taper was new to me, first job I ran with that one. Every taper has it's own personality, they all run similar, but have their own quirks. Not to mention, the camera was on, so of course I had to futz something up! Lol :yes:


Long tapes are better than short ones.. within reason.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Couple hundred lol. If there is a problem my guys will let me know. I haven't found that the proform black lid to gum up like he is describing. Personally I like the Ruco better anyway. I switch off between the proform and Ruco constantly to examine differences. I'm sorry your struggling Moore. Fortunately we are stocking 4 houses next week. That's a good week for us.


I'm sure Daddy and his workers will take good care of you. :thumbsup:

It's a shame your too young to know what It was like to work with good products !


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## MUDBONE (Dec 26, 2011)

fr8train said:


> Yup, I did leave some long tapes in that vid. That taper was new to me, first job I ran with that one. Every taper has it's own personality, they all run similar, but have their own quirks. Not to mention, the camera was on, so of course I had to futz something up! Lol :yes:


Thought you did well.Ran through it like a freighttrain!


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> I'm sure Daddy and his workers will take good care of you. :thumbsup:
> 
> It's a shame your too young to know what It was like to work with good products !


Lol nobody takes care of me but me. I pretty much run every aspect of our business. Dad counts the houses and checks jobs, which I do as well. I guess if you had a full service company you would understand how it goes. BTW all 4 houses we are stocking this week are builders that I brought in to the business. So who is taking care of who? To the second comment, I started finishing when I was 7 and I am 25 now.... I guess they changed the muds over 18 years ago huh? Grew up using pretty much only proform multi-use with the red lid. Noticed a change in their mud about 5-6 years ago which is why we quit using it as we started having problems. Now it's Ruco all purpose or proform black lid.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> . I pretty much run every aspect of our business. Dad counts the houses and checks jobs, which I do as well. .


I Do that when I get off WORK! Get A job!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> I guess they changed the muds over 18 years ago huh? Grew up using pretty much only proform multi-use with the red lid. Noticed a change in their mud about 5-6 years ago which is why we quit using it as we started having problems.


They changed the formula with the A/P Pro-form in 1-1-11 . 

Before that ..It was a quality mud to use.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> They changed the formula with the A/P Pro-form in 1-1-11 .
> 
> Before that ..It was a quality mud to use.


I was stocking Ruco middleweight in 11' so I can't really speak for the A/P proform. Have you thought about permanently switching muds Moore?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> I was stocking Ruco middleweight in 11' so I can't really speak for the A/P proform. Have you thought about permanently switching muds Moore?


I would love too ,,but I cant control the supplies in a 5 County area.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> I would love too ,,but I cant control the supplies in a 5 County area.


Could always switch to Ruco. Definitley has more glue in it and is more slick/workable.


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## DrywallMatt (Dec 6, 2014)

They must have changed all proform products there all getting bad in my opinion. The Lite Blue has really gotten bad.


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