# Black Widow sanding head



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

At 2Bucks request, I'll start a thread on this puppy. I used it today briefly, to brush down some first coated metal and butts. It worked well for wide open stuff, not much different than the radius sanders, except you could get right up to the angle. The sanding pads are a little spendy (4 for $5.70 at my supplier), and unlike the radius, the foam is already attached to the paper. You'll need an adapter if you use standard wide thread poles, just like the wallboard/etc. old school sand heads.

I tried it right close in an angle, and due to it's shape, you still get a groove about 1/4-3/8" out from the inside corner. This could be remedied if you trim the backside of the pad, but first glance suggests that this would be a pain in the a$$. The pad is proud of the head, so that's nice, but I would suggest to Trim-tex that they bevel the back of the pad....if they did that this thing would be a perfect hybrid of rectangular and radius sanders (and would not gouge angles)....so much that I would never use either again. I would also suggest that they offer the option of firmer pads...it's pretty soft, and I foresee having to break out the old rectangular to really get screw spotted edges...we'll see tomorrow.

It's cheaper than the radius by about $7, but the construction isn't as nice. I wouldn't say it's "cheap", but it doesn't feel like it will last forever. BUT...it is lighter....by a long shot. Even on my extension pole I could really feel the difference, and could imagine after a long day of sanding the fatigue would be less. 

So far, I'm happy with it, and if everything dries in the job tonight, I'll put it through it's paces tomorrow.:yes:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

Interesting here is the *Radius 360 *that is popular with painters, I might have to try this one though because I like the square head. Can I screw it onto a Wooster extension pole?


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Interesting here is the *Radius 360 *that is popular with painters, I might have to try this one though because I like the square head. Can I screw it onto a Wooster extension pole?


this is how i use mine...there is an adapter that comes with it...same as you would use on a regular head


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Black Window is a great sanding head. Its like sanding with a sponge. Very simular with the radius 360.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

the kid that works with me bought this head http://www.fantastictools.com/p-1293-flex-edge-drywall-sanding-head.aspx it's light weight too.the nice thing about this one is the foam back sand paper ad-hears it self to it,though it was not designed to do this (i think) so it saves you from purchasing their pads,which are pricey too.plus it has the female head which fits most extension poles.(not the male head)
So I was wondering if anyone knows if the black widow will accept foam back sand paper to ad-hear/attach to it.guess it would take two pieces laid parallel beside each other dew to the black widows size.just wondering


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> the kid that works with me bought this head http://www.fantastictools.com/p-1293-flex-edge-drywall-sanding-head.aspx it's light weight too.the nice thing about this one is the foam back sand paper ad-hears it self to it,though it was not designed to do this (i think) so it saves you from purchasing their pads,which are pricey too.plus it has the female head which fits most extension poles.(not the male head)
> So I was wondering if anyone knows if the black widow will accept foam back sand paper to ad-hear/attach to it.guess it would take two pieces laid parallel beside each other dew to the black widows size.just wondering


If I'm correct (which certainly may not be the case) foam back wouldn't work...this stuff has the velcro style back. In fact, it's the velcro back layer which causes it to gouge the angle. While I was reading bedtime stories I realized that it's an easy fix with a pair of scissors. all you need to really trim is an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch all the way around...30 seconds to a minute. probably about the same amount of time it would take to trim a piece of sandpaper if you forgot to buy the ones that fit your sand head exactly

And by the way...that flex edge looks handy, but the name just isn't as cool:cool2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> If I'm correct (which certainly may not be the case) foam back wouldn't work...this stuff has the velcro style back. In fact, it's the velcro back layer which causes it to gouge the angle. While I was reading bedtime stories I realized that it's an easy fix with a pair of scissors. all you need to really trim is an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch all the way around...30 seconds to a minute. probably about the same amount of time it would take to trim a piece of sandpaper if you forgot to buy the ones that fit your sand head exactly
> 
> And by the way...that flex edge looks handy, but the name just isn't as cool:cool2:


same with the sander I have in my link,it has a velcro back.so I thought hey  will the foam back stick,and it did.so there's a test for you slim,might save money.
what can I say,I got a wee bit of Scottish blood in me,I'm a cheap [email protected]:yes:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> same with the sander I have in my link,it has a velcro back.so I thought hey  will the foam back stick,and it did.so there's a test for you slim,might save money.
> what can I say,I got a wee bit of Scottish blood in me,I'm a cheap [email protected]:yes:


they make foam back in full sheets, right? (How sad is it that I'm too lazy to GOOGLE?) 

What they need to do is make the stuff with a pad more like the old style sanders (maybe a little softer)...sh!t, just a bigger old sander. Or how about a triangle? No? Hexagon? How about a holographic sander? Then you can at least _look _like you're working. Alright, I know, I took it a little too far.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Here's what we need in a 9" size

http://pivco.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2289

3000 grit! :laughing:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Okay guys,,, the radius is what painters use,,,, gee, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!

The gator head from Blowes fits any paint pole, its velcro, but you can cut the paper at the edge to avoid the corner thing. It has an angled head, so you can sand the corner just the same as an angle sponge. 

It also does NOT flip on ya.

But what do I know,,, I'm just the 100 yr old gorillia in the room,,,,LOL:thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Okay guys,,, the radius is what painters use,,,, gee, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The gator head from Blowes fits any paint pole, its velcro, but you can cut the paper at the edge to avoid the corner thing. It has an angled head, so you can sand the corner just the same as an angle sponge.
> 
> ...


I never drunk the radius koolaid, I was never sold on not being able to get into the corners, that is why this one looks more promising to me.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> I never drunk the radius koolaid, I was never sold on not being able to get into the corners, that is why this one looks more promising to me.


 Really Work, next time your at Blowes, look at the gator head,,, it really IS what your looking for.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

this it http://www.lowes.com/pd_292831-1069...78343&N=4294806339+5003697&identifier=Sanding
gater sanding head


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Okay guys,,, the radius is what painters use,,,, gee, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The gator head from Blowes fits any paint pole, its velcro, but you can cut the paper at the edge to avoid the corner thing. It has an angled head, so you can sand the corner just the same as an angle sponge.
> 
> ...


At one point, I had to take over for our prep guy when he quit (went in after texture, sanded all the knockdown, caulked every angle, swept) and the radius was the bees knees. I've never cared for it for drywall finish sanding, especially with all this lightweight mud.

The gator head looks like it really _will _do the trick, with the bevel at the edges. 

And please stop trying to fool us....we know you're _at least_ 150 years old.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> this it http://www.lowes.com/pd_292831-1069...78343&N=4294806339+5003697&identifier=Sanding
> gater sanding head


Gator's website show one that looks like the pad is thicker with a 45 bevel around the edge.
http://www.gatorfinishing.com/products/64/


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Don't knoiw if its still this way or not,,,,, but you could buy a gator head on a wooden pole (it had a metal screw thinghy) or you could buy JUST the head for the same price, but it had a (plastic screw thingy) 

They were the same price, only the head and pole were in the drywall section and the cheaper plastic head was in the paint section.

Don't know what that means, but that is the way it was last year !!!!!


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Let's face it, we all won't be able to sleep at night until we've tried out each and every one of these sanders. I thought I was sold on the 360 now I'm not so sure. At $20 the gator might be worth a try. Could have sworn I saw something about the 360 being offered with an interchangeable adapter so you could use it with a pole, hand grip, or change it to a corner sander, but it's been awhile and no product.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Yet another option?

Wooster AeroSander


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

D's said:


> Yet another option?
> 
> Wooster AeroSander


 They DO have a triangle sander! I think we're a bunch of suckers and the manufacturers all know it.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

for all the football fans, diamond wall makes one shaped like a football too

i think everyone will market there own heads so you have to buy there paper


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

My experience with the Black Widow:

- 1st one fell over and broke where the steel pin holds the head to the pole
- someone stole the 2nd one

I did like it well enough at the time for quick sanding of the 1st coat before 2nd coating. But I thought the head's face maybe a little too flexible for me, with all its cushioning. So I'm back to my Better Than Ever extendable pole sander, on which I use paper with no backing for my 1st sanding. This flattens things nicely enough where it should be, so that my 2nd coat (or for silverstilts - 3rd coat)  goes on nicer and finish sands out nicer.



Bill from Indy said:


> i think everyone will market there own heads so you have to buy there paper


I bought one of these to try: http://www.all-wall.com/Flex-Edge-Drywall-Sander

You'd think that if they seriously wanted to sell them and their paper, they'd cut the replacement paper to a size that would actually fit the head well all the time, and not 1 out of 3-4 times.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I got to use this thing a bit more thoroughly yesterday, and I'm not too thrilled. It's great for the body of flat work, but the softness of the pad prohibits really blending edges into the paper. I found myself hitting flats and metal with it, and then using my good old fashioned sandpole to hit screws, edges of the flats, and angles. Personally, that's too much trouble for me, and I'll probably just stick with my regular pole for the most part, at least until they make a firmer pad with a bevel on it.

I could see this thing being perfect for:

-Sanding after texture
-Sanding fully skim coated walls
-Buffing big floats that you know are wavy but will pass if they don't get all scratched up
-Taking small dings out of your six

It didn't leave any scratches, so that's a plus....but just not worth the effort to carry around two poles. It'll go into my sanding bucket, to be pulled out for the occasional usage. The paper lasts forever, so that helps justify the cost of almost $1.50 a sheet. Needless to say, I'm a little disappointed. You know, while they're at it, they could tweak the linkage or dimensions a little bit, it doesn't run through angles quite as smoothly as the old school poles.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

You know, while I'm at it, here's an idea for you 'inventors' out there....why not make a sand head with the same proportions as the old ones, but twice as big? Then you could run across seams at an angle and hit the whole thing. Nice and stiff, so it would function like a big wood plane. i've toyed with the idea of gluing a foam pad to a 24" long piece of 1x4, and using a belt sander belt as paper....that would make for some flat stuff.

(I'm fully prepared for the tirade of comments about actually floating your work flat so funky sanding tools would be unnecessary...but I'm such a greenhorn I'm just not capable of floating flat)


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> You know, while I'm at it, here's an idea for you 'inventors' out there....why not make a sand head with the same proportions as the old ones, but twice as big? Then you could run across seams at an angle and hit the whole thing. Nice and stiff, so it would function like a big wood plane. i've toyed with the idea of gluing a foam pad to a 24" long piece of 1x4, and using a belt sander belt as paper....that would make for some flat stuff.
> 
> (I'm fully prepared for the tirade of comments about actually floating your work flat so funky sanding tools would be unnecessary...but I'm such a greenhorn I'm just not capable of floating flat)


I'm not a finsiher,,,I'm a sander.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

slim...im with ya...i got to where i can't use it for finish (L4) sanding....i use it for L5, great btw, or brushing laps and flames on bedcoat if need be...other than that, it just don't get used...I guess I am stuck in time and use what works best for me...idiot stick with blue emery

if they made the pads with a less dense foam, it may be a better option....or make a pad and just velcro/hook and loop paper...I would like it to have a rubber pad like on a conventional head, then hook and loop pads to apply to the pad...but i've only sanded for 20yrs...what do I know:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Bill from Indy said:


> slim...im with ya...i got to where i can't use it for finish (L4) sanding....i use it for L5, great btw, or brushing laps and flames on bedcoat if need be...other than that, it just don't get used...I guess I am stuck in time and use what works best for me...idiot stick with blue emery
> 
> if they made the pads with a less dense foam, it may be a better option....or make a pad and just velcro/hook and loop paper...I would like it to have a rubber pad like on a conventional head, then hook and loop pads to apply to the pad...but i've only sanded for 20yrs...what do I know:thumbup:


emery clothe is nice stuff:yes:,If you don't like the foam back paper,try gluing another rubber pad on your sanding head ,your may be surprised


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

I love my black widow. you guys must really have to grind your work down if you are complaing that the pad is too spongy. I just basically hold the head against the wall lightly and let the sander do the work , I'm just there to guid it.

It could also just be the mud I use too, you can sand it with the palm of your hand. 

As for edges , my boxes are set up to feather into the drywall, they do not leave edges unless there is something wrong with the board itself or the studs, trusses,framing etc. Same with corners if my angle head is leaving an edge, it is becase of framing or twisted studs and I fix both by adding more mud and feathering it out flat. Also with angles , I never did catch on to the idea of ploe sanding them just to go over it again with a sponge and light. I use a heavy, medium grit angled sponge and do them once.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

taper71 said:


> I love my black widow. you guys must really have to grind your work down if you are complaing that the pad is too spongy. I just basically hold the head against the wall lightly and let the sander do the work , I'm just there to guid it.
> 
> It could also just be the mud I use too, you can sand it with the palm of your hand.
> 
> As for edges , my boxes are set up to feather into the drywall, they do not leave edges unless there is something wrong with the board itself or the studs, trusses,framing etc. Same with corners if my angle head is leaving an edge, it is becase of framing or twisted studs and I fix both by adding more mud and feathering it out flat. Also with angles , I never did catch on to the idea of ploe sanding them just to go over it again with a sponge and light. I use a heavy, medium grit angled sponge and do them once.


Actually, I use lightweight mud, but regardless of how tight and feathered my edges are, to achieve perfection you need to sand the feather and *slightly *burn the paper. It's the same principle applied to sanding touch ups....sure, you're using super loose mud, but there's still an edge. As for angles, on all but the heavier textures (hand & knockdown) I'll slide the edge on almost all angles hit with an angle head, so they can be sanded with the pole....then use a sponge just for spot sanding.

I've noticed something when working with other guys....come sanding day, I always seem to get stuck sanding _their _work.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

taper71 said:


> I love my black widow. you guys must really have to grind your work down if you are complaining that the pad is too spongy. I just basically hold the head against the wall lightly and let the sander do the work , I'm just there to guide it.
> 
> It could also just be the mud I use too, you can sand it with the palm of your hand.


I'm with you on this ! Ever since receiving my Black Widow at Trim-Tex I've been wishing I had one years earlier. Like you said, if the mud is laid on nicely there really isn't much sanding involved. I actually kind of enjoy sanding now. I can hardly tell I'm holding it because it's so light but I still prefer my regular pole for angles though just because it's easier to apply a little more pressure to the angle if necessary. I have never felt a need to use 180 grit(25 years ago yes) but these pads are very nice and don't scratch unless you snag the paper of course.

I tried every herky-jerky movement I could in order to get it to flip but it wouldn't. I'm very impressed ! :thumbup: Thank you Joe and team !


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Cool! Thanks for reviving this thread! I didn't know it existed.
I personally love the black widow! It's my all time favourite sanding head!
I used to use the full circle brand name but honestly towards the end they started pissing me off to no avail.
I don't know what it was about them but I had to keep buying replacement foam pads because the velcro circle that holds your sand paper on would keep ripping off. Even after I kept telling my guys, "be extremely careful when changing papers, don't just rip it off! Peel one little corner back, then sneak a finger or two underneath the paper to hold down the velcro so it doesn't rip from the pad." But even then, they still didn't last that long. I even bought a brand new one once and the velcro pad was already loose! That pissed me of even more, I was like are you kidding me!? They are just too temperamental for me. When they work they work great. But that's only half the time in my opinion.

The simplicity of Trim-Tex's Black Widow is like it was designed for morons! Thank you! 













Do I feel like taking a college course on how to adequately change a piece of sanding paper without applying too much force to risk damaging the pad underneath!?

No! I want something that when I need to change the paper, I can rip it off, slap a new one on and keep moving!!
The Black widow simply has 4 velcro tabs in each of the corners of the sander head which holds your sanding paper in place.
It's the most lightweight head on the market, it covers more square footage, it doesn't flip, unlike the round full circle sander it can get right into the corners. Yes, full circle then designed the flex edge for corners but seriously? Do I want too switch sanding heads every time I need to do a corner? No! I want something that can do it all.
In my opinion it's honestly the best sanding head on the market. All my guys instantly loved it as well!
Thank you Trim-Tex! :thumbsup:


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

mudslingr said:


> I'm with you on this ! Ever since receiving my Black Widow at Trim-Tex I've been wishing I had one years earlier. Like you said, if the mud is laid on nicely there really isn't much sanding involved. I actually kind of enjoy sanding now. I can hardly tell I'm holding it because it's so light but I still prefer my regular pole for angles though just because it's easier to apply a little more pressure to the angle if necessary. I have never felt a need to use 180 grit(25 years ago yes) but these pads are very nice and don't scratch unless you snag the paper of course.
> 
> I tried every herky-jerky movement I could in order to get it to flip but it wouldn't. I'm very impressed ! :thumbup: Thank you Joe and team !


See, what did I tell you, best sander around. 

The other day I finally found the adaptors that let you put the sander (and nailspotter/corner roller) on a regular painters pole. I don't know where they were hiding them before but I found them on the clearance rack at the suppliers, half price!:thumbup: so I bought a couple, I'll probably go back and buy the rest now that I know they work well.

I still use my flex edge for angles sometimes, I find it cuts a nicer point.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

Gotta say no offence trimtex its not for me too lite in the head i feel like it glides too much on the wall. If i hand sand its the 360head and flex edge in angles but 99%of the time its electric sanders


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Since my last posts in this thread I've had a chance to use the widow a bit more. I care for it even less at this point. I started always sanding with a light due to this sand-head....it's not the tool for smooth wall, and I stand by that statement. 

But I've only been sanding drywall for a short time....:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Tried out the Goldblatt vortex today[impulse item] The 150 that came with the sander was too rough ..I used 220 360 disk with it . 
I liked it ..:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Cool! Thanks for reviving this thread! I didn't know it existed.
> I personally love the black widow! It's my all time favourite sanding head!
> I used to use the full circle brand name but honestly towards the end they started pissing me off to no avail.
> I don't know what it was about them but I had to keep buying replacement foam pads because the velcro circle that holds your sand paper on would keep ripping off. Even after I kept telling my guys, "be extremely careful when changing papers, don't just rip it off! Peel one little corner back, then sneak a finger or two underneath the paper to hold down the velcro so it doesn't rip from the pad." But even then, they still didn't last that long. I even bought a brand new one once and the velcro pad was already loose! That pissed me of even more, I was like are you kidding me!? They are just too temperamental for me. When they work they work great. But that's only half the time in my opinion.
> ...


Just use trim-tex spray glue for beads to glue your Velcro pads down on your round sander:yes:
Also, your standard 9" rectangle sander may not cover the same surface area as the round or black widow (need dimensions). But as displayed in my art work below. The 9" head still will cover 10" well held on a angle. Takes less pushing/muscle too. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say in my diagram

Go with the flex edge sander, any foam back paper will attach to it. No need to go "oh chit, were almost out of our SPECIAL sand paper"


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

saskataper said:


> See, what did I tell you, best sander around.
> 
> The other day I finally found the adaptors that let you put the sander (and nailspotter/corner roller) on a regular painters pole. I don't know where they were hiding them before but I found them on the clearance rack at the suppliers, half price!:thumbup: so I bought a couple, I'll probably go back and buy the rest now that I know they work well.
> 
> I still use my flex edge for angles sometimes, I find it cuts a nicer point.


Send me one:thumbup:, I can't find those damn things anywhere

Ill send you 2 bucks:thumbup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Cool! Thanks for reviving this thread! I didn't know it existed.
> I personally love the black widow! It's my all time favourite sanding head!
> I used to use the full circle brand name but honestly towards the end they started pissing me off to no avail.
> I don't know what it was about them but I had to keep buying replacement foam pads because the velcro circle that holds your sand paper on would keep ripping off. Even after I kept telling my guys, "be extremely careful when changing papers, don't just rip it off! Peel one little corner back, then sneak a finger or two underneath the paper to hold down the velcro so it doesn't rip from the pad." But even then, they still didn't last that long. I even bought a brand new one once and the velcro pad was already loose! That pissed me of even more, I was like are you kidding me!? They are just too temperamental for me. When they work they work great. But that's only half the time in my opinion.
> ...


Try using a knife and slip it between the disc and velcro to seperate them instead of pulling apart, Thats what they say in the instructions to prolong the life of the velco.


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