# level 5 finish



## jeff2go (May 19, 2014)

I recently saw a question asked. What is a level 5 finish?
it is basically just a slick finish. no more or less.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

jeff2go said:


> I recently saw a question asked. What is a level 5 finish?
> it is basically just a slick finish. no more or less.


 You can do a slick finish with a level 4. A level 5's job is to equalize the porosity difference between the mud applied and the bare sheetrock. It can be acheived by solid skimming the entire surface with mud or with a spray applied primer/surfacer specific for level 5 finishes. Level 5 is a whole different animal.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jeff2go said:


> I recently saw a question asked. What is a level 5 finish?
> it is basically just a slick finish. no more or less.


Is that right?  You can call It what you like . It has many terms. 

White out , Shure coat, Piss coat, Slick finish , Level 5 finish.... Post #2 pretty much sums It up .. Mr General Contractor !


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

moore said:


> Is that right?  You can call It what you like . It has many terms.
> 
> White out , Shure coat, Piss coat, Slick finish , Level 5 finish.... Post #2 pretty much sums It up .. Mr General Contractor !


Thanks Moore, I finally understand what you buggers are talking about now (piss coat, slick finish). :thumbup:
Over here it's either level 5 or skimcoat.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> Thanks Moore, I finally understand what you buggers are talking about now (piss coat, slick finish). :thumbup:
> Over here it's either level 5 or skimcoat.


And It ALL serves the same purpose? It all means the same thing. right?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Is that right?  You can call It what you like . It has many terms.
> 
> White out , Shure coat, Piss coat, Slick finish , Level 5 finish.... Post #2 pretty much sums It up .. Mr General Contractor !


I wish I was a GC sometimes! The DC always gets the short end of the stick :furious:


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

In level 5 finish (slick finish for paint) the joints should be quite flat. No hollow or crowned spots along them. Checking with some kind of a straight edge is mandatory. Fix joint it is if not quite flat. The corner bead filled quite flat, inside angles straight and crisp with no crumbs and junk. Meticulously check with lights and fix any pores, lap marks, dings, blisters, bad fasteners, etc. . All this before sanding, dust removal, damp sponging, and if necessary a tight skim coat (or high solids primer) and another light sanding. No amount of skimming hides a badly filled joint or corner bead. All paint finish coats rolled on with proper nap roller by capable painter. Then cross your fingers.


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## Boles58 (Dec 28, 2014)

What's a sure way to get a level 5 finish on a lit up wall


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Boles58 said:


> What's a sure way to get a level 5 finish on a lit up wall


Detailed sanding with a halogen light and a fine (half worn) sanding sponge, a good quality skimcoat is only as good as the sanding.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

do your best level 4,sand,prime the wall,then do your total skim,sand.I'm aware of the other systems of level 5 but this is a method I'm confident with.


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

Level 5 is the most boring, difficult, time consuming way to finish a wall. It makes less money, people complane more ( hence the "cross your fingers" comment from endo). Don't get me started on the endless sanding. When all's said and done, a level 5 wall with side sinlight will show every imperfection no matter how impeccable the finisher. Any finisher who can achieve a true level 5 can do anything with mud, and I consider them a master. Mostly I'll see it in commercial. The residential schwag they have here in Albuquerque doesn't come close.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Nick Harmon said:


> Level 5 is the most boring, difficult, time consuming way to finish a wall. It makes less money, people complane more ( hence the "cross your fingers" comment from endo). Don't get me started on the endless sanding. When all's said and done, a level 5 wall with side sinlight will show every imperfection no matter how impeccable the finisher. Any finisher who can achieve a true level 5 can do anything with mud, and I consider them a master. Mostly I'll see it in commercial. The residential schwag they have here in Albuquerque doesn't come close.


And it's still just drywall (paper and dust)!!


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Oh. And air.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Nick Harmon said:


> Level 5 is the most boring, difficult, time consuming way to finish a wall. It makes less money, people complane more ( hence the "cross your fingers" comment from endo). Don't get me started on the endless sanding. When all's said and done, a level 5 wall with side sinlight will show every imperfection no matter how impeccable the finisher. Any finisher who can achieve a true level 5 can do anything with mud, and I consider them a master. Mostly I'll see it in commercial. The residential schwag they have here in Albuquerque doesn't come close.


find it easier to sand, running 240 paper I thank you for the compliment as I can achieve Level 5, tight coats, mind you I have the mud sprayer


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

I find it easier to sand too. Also i find good profits in it, and people love it. 

Just run a level 5 box and call it a level 5 finish. 


http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

I think it's great that most people won't/can't do level 5. Helps me get the money I want for doing it.


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## prwint (Dec 28, 2014)

I have a Grayco tex-spray and I have my apprentice spray on mud with the 575 tip. Then myself and one other good trowel man to wipe it out and my customers love it. If you do it well, and charge accordingly, the sanding is worth it. It is without a doubt the best way to counteract flashing. One thing I've learned is I skim my three ways after I spray and trowel. If I make my three ways perfect first, I find I make a mess of them when I do my level five.


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

D A Drywall said:


> I think it's great that most people won't/can't do level 5. Helps me get the money I want for doing it.


The problem is I've yet to meet a private contractor who thinks they can't do smooth finish. Didn't you know? Drywall finishing is easy. They just contract it out because they don't have time. And then when I see their work it's like a level 3 at best. There is no doubt in my mind that you boys can achieve a true level 5. That's why I like this forum. Because I get to talk with real professionals.


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Nick Harmon said:


> The problem is I've yet to meet a private contractor who thinks they can't do smooth finish. Didn't you know? Drywall finishing is easy. They just contract it out because they don't have time. And then when I see their work it's like a level 3 at best. There is no doubt in my mind that you boys can achieve a true level 5. That's why I like this forum. Because I get to talk with real professionals.


Ah, now I'm pickin up what your layin down! Yup, seen plenty of "level 5" and had to bite my tongue


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

mld said:


> Oh. And air.


 These days ! Mostly air!


D A Drywall said:


> I think it's great that most people won't/can't do level 5. Helps me get the money I want for doing it.


 And the work too.



endo_alley said:


> In level 5 finish (slick finish for paint) the joints should be quite flat. No hollow or crowned spots along them. Checking with some kind of a straight edge is mandatory. Fix joint it is if not quite flat. The corner bead filled quite flat, inside angles straight and crisp with no crumbs and junk. Meticulously check with lights and fix any pores, lap marks, dings, blisters, bad fasteners, etc. . All this before sanding, dust removal, damp sponging, and if necessary a tight skim coat (or high solids primer) and another light sanding. No amount of skimming hides a badly filled joint or corner bead. All paint finish coats rolled on with proper nap roller by capable painter. Then cross your fingers.


Well......That's asking a bit much!:whistling2:


Nick Harmon said:


> Any finisher who can achieve a true level 5 can do anything with mud, and I consider them a master.


 Thank you!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> In level 5 finish (slick finish for paint) the joints should be quite flat. No hollow or crowned spots along them. Checking with some kind of a straight edge is mandatory. Fix joint it is if not quite flat. The corner bead filled quite flat, inside angles straight and crisp with no crumbs and junk. Meticulously check with lights and fix any pores, lap marks, dings, blisters, bad fasteners, etc. . All this before sanding, dust removal, damp sponging, and if necessary a tight skim coat (or high solids primer) and another light sanding. No amount of skimming hides a badly filled joint or corner bead. All paint finish coats rolled on with proper nap roller by capable painter. Then cross your fingers.


Also...You left out the high shoulders ! Gotta bust them out too.
And when the board is hung over a pile of trash lumber or a bad truss system The board's going to go with whats there. If I spend forever to flatten out a butt joint On a ceiling And the joist 3 down from It is a 1/2 down from from the others ..What's the point?? More than likely when joe ho walks in and looks up to see that hump in the ceiling , He's not going to think It's the framing ! You know what he's thinking!:furious::yes:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> Also...You left out the high shoulders ! Gotta bust them out too.
> And when the board is hung over a pile of trash lumber or a bad truss system The board's going to go with whats there. If I spend forever to flatten out a butt joint On a ceiling And the joist 3 down from It is a 1/2 down from from the others ..What's the point?? More than likely when joe ho walks in and looks up to see that hump in the ceiling , He's not going to think It's the framing ! You know what he's thinking!:furious::yes:


yep, I know all about it, one job last year dwc billed me on a brad framed bead problem first I ever had that done


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

moore said:


> Also...You left out the high shoulders ! Gotta bust them out too.
> And when the board is hung over a pile of trash lumber or a bad truss system The board's going to go with whats there. If I spend forever to flatten out a butt joint On a ceiling And the joist 3 down from It is a 1/2 down from from the others ..What's the point?? More than likely when joe ho walks in and looks up to see that hump in the ceiling , He's not going to think It's the framing ! You know what he's thinking!:furious::yes:


Framing is so important. The better builders around here (when they have an open ended budget I imagine) send some carpenters through with straight edges and power planers to get rid of any crowns in the studs. The problem with waiting till they have selected a drywaller is that by then there is electrical and pluming rough in. And sometimes insulation and vapor barrier. So power planing needs to be done before that. It also doesn't hurt if the hangers use a straight edge and shims. (Dream on). And Butt board for the butt joints. A gripe I have is plumber's protection plates that are shingled over each other. I try to get them morticed into the wood so the rock lays flat over them. We just finished punching a smooth finish house today. Here are some photos. They don't show much finishing. But they are an example of the stuff that gets built here lately.


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

endo_alley said:


> Framing is so important. The better builders around here (when they have an open ended budget I imagine) send some carpenters through with straight edges and power planers to get rid of any crowns in the studs. The problem with waiting till they have selected a drywaller is that by then there is electrical and pluming rough in. And sometimes insulation and vapor barrier. So power planing needs to be done before that. It also doesn't hurt if the hangers use a straight edge and shims. (Dream on). And Butt board for the butt joints. A gripe I have is plumber's protection plates that are shingled over each other. I try to get them morticed into the wood so the rock lays flat over them. We just finished punching a smooth finish house today. Here are some photos. They don't show much finishing. But they are an example of the stuff that gets built here lately.


I like that clear drywall. Now there's some level 5.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

That's nothing. Didn't you see those sideways rooms? They were really a bear. Scaffolding kept wanting to tip over. Actually, most of the south (sunny) side of the house was glass. Didn't make things any easier either. I think The architects hate drywallers. The windows have welded 1/4" steel jamb extensions sticking out about 1/4 inch proud of the drywall. So two months after drywall is complete the welder installs them all and we are told we have to come back and flat tape to them all.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> That's nothing. Didn't you see those sideways rooms? They were really a bear. Scaffolding kept wanting to tip over. Actually, most of the south (sunny) side of the house was glass. Didn't make things any easier either. I think The architects hate drywallers. The windows have welded 1/4" steel jamb extensions sticking out about 1/4 inch proud of the drywall. So two months after drywall is complete the welder installs them all and we are told we have to come back and flat tape to them all.


if he paid me to go back I would if I had no time I would of told him


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

endo_alley said:


> Framing is so important. The better builders around here (when they have an open ended budget I imagine) send some carpenters through with straight edges and power planers to get rid of any crowns in the studs. The problem with waiting till they have selected a drywaller is that by then there is electrical and pluming rough in. And sometimes insulation and vapor barrier. So power planing needs to be done before that. It also doesn't hurt if the hangers use a straight edge and shims. (Dream on). And Butt board for the butt joints. A gripe I have is plumber's protection plates that are shingled over each other. I try to get them morticed into the wood so the rock lays flat over them. We just finished punching a smooth finish house today. Here are some photos. They don't show much finishing. But they are an example of the stuff that gets built here lately.


This happens on every timber frame here even the budget homes. They also pack (shim) the hollow side with masonite strips which they plane down to the required thickness.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

endo_alley said:


> That's nothing. Didn't you see those sideways rooms? They were really a bear. Scaffolding kept wanting to tip over. Actually, most of the south (sunny) side of the house was glass. Didn't make things any easier either. I think The architects hate drywallers. The windows have welded 1/4" steel jamb extensions sticking out about 1/4 inch proud of the drywall. So two months after drywall is complete the welder installs them all and we are told we have to come back and flat tape to them all.


Thats something I never thought of, here that would be the north side.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

gazman said:


> Thats something I never thought of, here that would be the north side.


crazy I own a house in the southern hemisphere and the sun shines in my living room north side


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

gazman said:


> Thats something I never thought of, here that would be the north side.


Yeah where I am from it is the south and west windows that kill you the most and sometimes the early morning eastern windows. North windows are our friends and the only way to successfully achieve a level 5 finish is to fail at a level 5 finish at least 2 times. We've done the spray and we've done the skim and the best way is to just do a damn good job.:thumbsup:


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## Tigahshark (Jan 8, 2015)

Hello all, I'm new to this forum but I just had a question, we are spraying level 5 with a mark v sprayer and I would just like your input on tip sizes. At the moment we are using a 7 21, what sizes aof tips is everyone using, I'm more concerned with the orfis number not the fan size, thanks!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

I have a Titan, but am sure if you call Graco they will tell you, in the process of change n to Graco gun


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Are there any other paint sprayers that can spray mud that arent like 5 grand


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Corey The Taper said:


> Are there any other paint sprayers that can spray mud that arent like 5 grand


check all-wall


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Try a hopper. Spray and slick with the derby squeegee. 


http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Use a roller and 1/4" nap cover.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Used a 535 or 635 a few times to spray sprayplast level 5 which is basically like really thin taping mud mixed with paint.


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

How do I know if a spray machine is powerful enough to spray mud id like to get one just incase in the future if I want to go with cfs


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> You can do a slick finish with a level 4. A level 5's job is to equalize the porosity difference between the mud applied and the bare sheetrock. It can be acheived by solid skimming the entire surface with mud or with a spray applied primer/surfacer specific for level 5 finishes. Level 5 is a whole different animal.


good comment, but to sum it up in one sentence,,,,,

"coat the whole dam wall and ceilings in mud"

who does it (painter or taper) and the technical aspects of what level you take walls to before you skim them (level 3 or 4 ) and how are you going to apply mud (hand bomb, roll mud,,,spray mud) and products used may be discussed and debated,,, but,,,

I found in commercial work, as in hospitals, nursing homes etc, that they were looking for the perfect level wall along with no flashing/shadow effects etc. So the whole construction of walls from framing, electrical box insulation, drywall to paint finish have to be monitored in great detail to obtain a prefect level 5.

Residential level 5 tends to be more taper orientated system. Yes it will eliminate flash between coated joints and bare drywall (since our work is smoother than this modern rough drywall). But there seems to be a new trend that home owners and contractors think a level five finish will hide/fix a bad tape job, but it will not,,,, as us pro's know.

I can get using level 5 finish in commercial area, best example is a hospital operating room, they want perfect light reflection to aid doctors etc,,, and places where 100,000's of thousands of people walk through doors, then I can see where company image etc is important. But home owners and Contractors who want level 5 perfection can bite me:furious:,,,, I can understand though with them in critical lighting areas, or a high sunshine walls, that's they don't want to see division of mud to bare drywall, then fine, pay me accordingly for it then. But to coat out all common areas, bedrooms, bathrooms etc and skipping over closets and so forth is over kill.

It's just more bloody work, lets face it, as a taper your paid to hide all fasteners and joints with little or no taper error for preparation for paint. Level 4 work, you just have to sand and check walls with a light, and something tells me your not checking your screws with a light after you sand (if u are you better quit taping):whistling2:

Coating out the whole wall is adding more work. Now you do have to check out every square inch of the wall with a light. You now become responsible for every nick ding or scratch on the wall instead of potential taping error in flats ,butts, angles etc....

Bloody job of a taper is to hide the joint, not create perfect flat,,,, perfect flat cost lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and it cannot be just tossed onto the shoulders of the taper, it starts from the foundation up !!!!!!!!!!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

ya know tubebuck if you frequent the forum more often ya would not have to write a novel on this stuff.....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I enjoy his novels ! :yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I enjoy his novels ! :yes:


Thank you Moore

For you and everyone else, my words are for free:thumbup:

But for joe,,,, It shall be 2 bucks a word :whistling2:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

the quik snapbacks have returned

cant wait till you and kiwi go at it:jester:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> the quik snapbacks have returned
> 
> cant wait till you and kiwi go at it:jester:


WHAT !!!!! the kiwi's are still allowed on this site 

Thats it,,,I'm out of here

^%[email protected]#%^#%%%%& KIWI'S


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Thank you Moore
> 
> For you and everyone else, my words are for free:thumbup:
> 
> But for joe,,,, It shall be 2 bucks a word :whistling2:


I charge him $5 ! :whistling2:


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

moore said:


> I charge him $5 ! :whistling2:


just $5 .........after a live in this trade I expect more from you :thumbup:


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## kcmudderman (Dec 22, 2014)

Level 5 means 5 tanks of gas 
Haha😎


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

kcmudderman said:


> Level 5 means 5 tanks of gas
> Haha😎


Ain't that the truth !!!


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

:thumbsup: spray applied primer/surfacer specific for level 5 finishes


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

wtf is a level 5. i need a good laugh


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

eazyrizla said:


> wtf is a level 5. i need a good laugh


It's when when you spray the board down with a water hose . Then watch while the wet board shrinks up causing all the seams and butts to peak out and buckle up! How's that for a good laugh! Ha.Ha.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> It's when when you spray the board down with a water hose . Then watch while the wet board shrinks up causing all the seams and butts to peak out and buckle up! How's that for a good laugh! Ha.Ha.


F*ck the level 5 for getting the boards warping and sh*t!
Just get a house that has had a super flow concrete floor in it,(Poured concrete like water)Then framed board installed and u r meant to go tape the thing!
It's wetter than my mam's crack when I came out of it!!
Then the daft cu*t's go crank up there fancy new heating to get even more moister out of the floors and into the board and warp the place to f*ck!!!!:furious:
It's a losing battle at times!!
But a laugh it's not when u c the damage they have done!


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

VANMAN said:


> F*ck the level 5 for getting the boards warping and sh*t!
> Just get a house that has had a super flow concrete floor in it,(Poured concrete like water)Then framed board installed and u r meant to go tape the thing!
> It's wetter than my mam's crack when I came out of it!!
> Then the daft cu*t's go crank up there fancy new heating to get even more moister out of the floors and into the board and warp the place to f*ck!!!!:furious:
> ...


:laughing: you're such an eloquent speaker Van, I can picture you doing a drunken wedding speech for some reason :lol:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> :laughing: you're such an eloquent speaker Van, I can picture you doing a drunken wedding speech for some reason :lol:


HaHaHa!
I just tell it like it is!!!:thumbsup:


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

" Wetter than my mam's crack"

LMAO!! That's some funny sh#t right there!!


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## Wellst95 (Apr 17, 2019)

Good job!


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## OtherbrotherMoore (May 25, 2017)

moore said:


> Is that right?  You can call It what you like . It has many terms.
> 
> White out , Shure coat, Piss coat, Slick finish , Level 5 finish.... Post #2 pretty much sums It up .. Mr General Contractor !



Disco Lips!











did we ask your opinion


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

OtherbrotherMoore said:


> Disco Lips!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No y'all didn't.


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## drythewall (Sep 3, 2019)

Yeah, the high gloss of the level 5 is popular but not for all areas


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