# starting out with auto taping tools



## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

hey guys, i,m new to the forum and this is my first post/question. Looking onto auto taping tools and want to know what to purchase for corners ,start to finish. I have a cheao homax banjo comming and i know i need a corner roller (metal one with wheels) After that im confused when it comes to flushers/ angle heads tubes ect. Hoping someone can put me in the right direction. I now tape everything by hand with paper tape and a nappy paint roller or short bristle broom head. I dont do alot of taping but I do a couple of the houses that i build and a handfull of renos each year. looking into taking on more taping jobs as most contractors around my parts sub out the taping and hire out of towners . they all tape by hand and charge basically the same price per sqf and arent that fast unless they have a big crew. Recently built a 1200 sqf house and the owner hired out the taping Almost 2 weeks for 4 guys . Ive been watching alot of vids of the auto tools and i know i could clean up in half the time with half the crew easy once i get the hang of it. Any how , just want to start with the corners as they take me the longest to do by hand. Thanks for reading and for any advice i can get!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Well you're definitely on the right track and I'm sure allot of the guys on here will help point you in the right direction.
Like you said, you need a roller first off, they're pretty standard.
As for the flusher vs angle head debate, there are pro's and cons to both.
But I'll give you the point form version.


*Flushers * 
-Much cheaper than an Angle Heads (Pricewise). 

-Flushers leave a little more mud and don't cut into 
the finish as much. Especially if passing over wet coats 

-Because they're not spring loaded like an Angle head 
they don't apply as much pressure and won't tear 
your wet tapes from the wall

-Overtime will wear down and leave an edge which you'll have
to clean by hand or sand like a mother if you don't.


So over all, Flushers are more short term because they wear down quicker and have no replaceable parts,
but do a great job and in my opinion are easier to use if you're inexperienced.


*AngleHeads*
- More Expensive than flushers but will last you a lifetime if taken care of properly.

-Blades will also wear down over time however you can replace these for 
a cheap price and it's like brand new again.

-They coat way tighter then flushers because they're spring loaded.
And if inexperienced might cause you to rip a few tapes before getting the hang of it.

-Because they coat so tight, you'll hardly have an edge to sand, makes sanding corners a breeze.

-Not as forgiving as a flusher but you will always have a perfect corner if used properly.


So over all, Angle Heads are a long term investment and will last you a long time because you can replace
blades and other parts. They're more expensive but you won't need to buy a new one every time they wear down.

Personally I myself, as well as a few other members on this site use a different combo of the two together.
I tape with a 2.5" flusher, which loads the mud on pretty heavy when taping, and for my final coat I pass my 3" Columbia Angle head. Coats really tight and I barely have anything to sand.
But that's just me.
Others might coat bigger to smaller, or angle head first, then flusher.
There's no set rules for corners. Whatever works for you and gives a nice finish! :thumbsup:

But at least now you know the difference between the two.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

I'd go with a 42" can-am tube, 2.5" and 3" can-am flushers a roller and a can-am inside corner applicator head and i liked the bte extension flusher handle cheap and easy


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

saskataper said:


> I'd go with a 42" can-am tube, 2.5" and 3" can-am flushers a roller and a can-am inside corner applicator head and i liked the bte extension flusher handle cheap and easy


Hahaha!! Wow....Why didn't I think of posting my own video...
Instead I babbled on for 10 minutes...

Saskataper's right though. That's a good cheap way to go. Especially if you don't do it every day!

I know allot of guys sort of laughed at this video because it's not as fast as allot of other methods but this is exactly why I filmed it.
For new comers or just inexperienced guys looking for a cheap way.
This gives you an idea of the speed you'd be working at.
If you're happy taping out a room in 12 minutes with a helper, than that's a great system.
Other members might fringe at the idea of a room taking 12 minutes, especially the guys running zooks. But over all, it's a cheap, reliable method which gets the job done for a fraction of the price. :thumbsup:

That would be my recommendation as well.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Also, I apologize for the quality of that video! Dear god...
That was before I decided to start giving a crap about what our videos looked like. Simply point and shoot. lol


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

ok.....so theres no hole in the flusher head for the mud to come out and the angle head does...thats why theres a head to just put the mud on and then flush it out with the flusher ? or does mud come out of both the flusher and angle head


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Right. can am makes what they call a direct flusher that does apply and flush at the same time but i found you cant push hard enough with the tube to get the flusher to work properly.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> ok.....so theres no hole in the flusher head for the mud to come out and the angle head does...thats why theres a head to just put the mud on and then flush it out with the flusher ? or does mud come out of both the flusher and angle head


You got it.
Some do, some don't.
http://www.walltools.com/blu-cg3.html


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Ok I think i undersand. I will be using a banjo so will the flusher still work or do i use the aplicator to put a layer on top of tape before it gets flushed? After its rolled out that is. U guys r a great help thats for sure! Funny...ive watched that video a few times before just searching on youtube.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

And the difference between a direct flusher and an angle head is basically one has springs and the other doesnt?


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> hey guys, i,m new to the forum and this is my first post/question. Looking onto auto taping tools and want to know what to purchase for corners ,start to finish. I have a cheao homax banjo comming and i know i need a corner roller (metal one with wheels) After that im confused when it comes to flushers/ angle heads tubes ect. Hoping someone can put me in the right direction.


Long one for you:

Since you live in Canada, these shouldn't be hard to access.

1. Since you're getting a banjo, you'll be able to dial in the amount of mud it puts out, so can choose your angle tool sizes.

Wouldn't go angle heads for you, at least not yet.
Some like BTE flushers. Can-Am flushers work well enough for me/us - either 2.5" and 3", or 3" and 3.5" in size, are the usual combo choices for us. I like 3 and 3.5, for a more tapered corner. Some I work with go 2.5 and 3.

Some flushers have holes in them to put mud on, using a tube. You don't need them. More money, and they're a make work project - make more work than they're worth.

A btw, just in case: Keep constant pressure on the flushers when pushing them into the corner. Otherwise, you'll end up with lumpy and bumpy.

2. Can-Am inside corner mud applicator 

3. 42" Columbia tube. Nicer action tube than such as the Can-Am. Easy on a person, does nicer job of putting mud on.

Get the Columbia outside corner bead applicator for it as well, if you're putting on bead using mud. Nice working one for that.

That applicator won't work off a Can-Am tube, unless you grind the inside of the 2 pins a bit that hold the applicator onto the tube. If you do that, keep checking while you're doing it, so you don't take too much off and it gets sloppy. If that does happen, you can spin the pins a bit and try again.

Can-Am's outside applicator isn't worth the money.

4. Split wheel Columbia corner roller. Helps keep the tape from doing things like 'snaking'.

A btw: Make sure you check rollers each time before you use it, and sometimes while using it. They can seize up from mud, and give problems then. If rollers seized, soak in water pail, and try turning by hand, to break them loose.
Leave sitting in a bit of water in a pail while using. Same with flushers.

Bang the roller on the bottom of the water pail at times to clear built up mud away some while using. Bang on bottom to help clean up at the end of taping. Turn rollers and check backsides when cleaning, to get mud from behind there. Perfectly clean isn't necessary. But you don't want thick lump areas, that won't soften fast when soaked in water for a bit before using. 

5. Handles:
Not saying to buy them - there's other, maybe better/less expensive choices for you - but I've got the Columbia extendable ones for both corner roller and flushers. 3' to 5'6" extendable(?) Can get into closet sized spaces, as well as reach things like 9' high horizontal angles well enough.

Can-Am handles won't work with angle heads. They don't make those, and the angle head manufacturers have a smaller ball size. Columbia, BTE handles will work with angle heads.

Can-Am tools: http://www.canamtool.com/products/product-list/

Columbia tools: http://www.columbiatools.com/automatic-taping-tools-for-taping-and-finishing-drywall.html


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> Ok I think i undersand. I will be using a banjo so will the flusher still work or do i use the aplicator to put a layer on top of tape before it gets flushed? After its rolled out that is. U guys r a great help thats for sure! Funny...ive watched that video a few times before just searching on youtube.


You've watched my video from just searching? lol. Sweet!
No, you don't need to put another layer on top of the tape after it's been rolled. That's what the roller is for, it pulls out the excess mud from the back and your flusher will distribute it nicely over the tape.

You can see a quick scene in this video where I use the roller and flusher.
http://youtu.be/kYNF-azT80k?t=2m16s





jcampbell said:


> And the difference between a direct flusher and an angle head is basically one has springs and the other doesnt?


Angle head's are just way better built and will last allot longer.

Take a look at the mechanics and precision machining that go into making these things.
http://www.walltools.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/1190/image/8376/

Now look at the precision machining that went into flushers.....
http://www.walltools.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/4001/image/5927/

It's a piece of tin with little skid plates. lol!
Quite the difference.
That's the difference you're paying for.

Depending how much you use a flusher it might last a little longer.
I only use mine for taping, not for coating, so they last allot longer. 
Probably about one year. Because even if the tips start to wear down a bit, you can just push it a little harder and it will keep it tight.
But keep in mind, we do this everyday! 
A flusher for you might last you 2 years. Or maybe more.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Wow...u guys know ur s#$t. And yes...saw that video too...lol. So,,,i understand the first stage. Now, use the inside 90 applicator again and flush with the bigger of the two heads? Thats it. What about final coat or is two coats good. My way(dont laugh) is as follows. if using tape i apply mud with roller or short bristle broom head, apply tape and wipe out. Coat both sides of tape and flush out with hand corner trowell. Thats my first coat (sheetrock 90) Next two coats i do both sides at same time, first with a 5 inch knife and second with a 6 inch knife. I know...i was taught by an ol' timer and got used to using that process. If using mesh(what i was taugt with) coat both sides and flush out with hand corner trowell. 2nd and 3rd coat both sides at the same time with 5 then 6 inch knife. I cant wait to get ahold of a set of these tools! Thanks again guys for the help. ! think im getting it. If i were to stick with one manufacturer what would you suggest as some components dont work with others . Will the roller fit on any handle like a paint stick or broom handle?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Wow...u guys know ur s#$t.


Yes and that is why your suppose to hire guys like us, not us teach a builder/General contractor how to tape.

Good luck:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> Wow...u guys know ur s#$t. And yes...saw that video too...lol. So,,,i understand the first stage. Now, use the inside 90 applicator again and flush with the bigger of the two heads? Thats it. What about final coat or is two coats good. My way(dont laugh) is as follows. if using tape i apply mud with roller or short bristle broom head, apply tape and wipe out. Coat both sides of tape and flush out with hand corner trowell. Thats my first coat (sheetrock 90) Next two coats i do both sides at same time, first with a 5 inch knife and second with a 6 inch knife. I know...i was taught by an ol' timer and got used to using that process. If using mesh(what i was taugt with) coat both sides and flush out with hand corner trowell. 2nd and 3rd coat both sides at the same time with 5 then 6 inch knife. I cant wait to get ahold of a set of these tools! Thanks again guys for the help. ! think im getting it. If i were to stick with one manufacturer what would you suggest as some components dont work with others . Will the roller fit on any handle like a paint stick or broom handle?


Yup! That's it.
You do two passes and you're done. Your first pass is when you're taping and then a final pass afterwards.
Here is our buddy Chris showing us how it's done!




He's using an Angle Head and corner box.
What you would do instead is apply the mud to the corner first using your compound tube with an inside applicator and then using a flusher or angle head to finish. Corner boxes are just another way to go. But they more or less only work with Angle heads. Like Saskataper said, flushers don't work that great as a two in one like the angle heads do.

As for which size head to use for either coat is entirely up to you.
Generally most guys go smaller to bigger.
However some members on this site do prefer to go bigger to smaller. It's all preference.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

You can also just pass the same size flusher for both coats if you want!
I did that for a long time, until I could afford to buy another one.
I just passed my 3" twice. :yes:
You'll just have to try it out man.

Oh! Thanks for watching my videos! :thumbsup:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

http://youtu.be/BQpXk5ScQrg angleboxing. Ooops you beat me to it


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

U would starve in my town man taping for a living. The population here is about 2500 people and there are only 3 companies within 1.5 hrs that tape and hang drywall exclusively and they all tape by hand. If you would like to travel to nova scotia than give me your number..........................the guys around here are slow and they suck at what they do. Its just more convient for me to take it more seriously as no one around these parts even wants anything to do with taping.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> U would starve in my town man taping for a living. The population here is about 2500 people and there are only 3 companies within 1.5 hrs that tape and hang drywall exclusively and they all tape by hand. If you would like to travel to nova scotia than give me your number..........................the guys around here are slow and they suck at what they do. Its just more convient for me to take it more seriously as no one around these parts even wants anything to do with taping.


Some days I want nothing to do with taping :laughing:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> U would starve in my town man taping for a living. The population here is about 2500 people and there are only 3 companies within 1.5 hrs that tape and hang drywall exclusively and they all tape by hand. If you would like to travel to nova scotia than give me your number..........................the guys around here are slow and they suck at what they do. Its just more convient for me to take it more seriously as no one around these parts even wants anything to do with taping.


Problem can be that as you ratchet the competition up, those other companies might respond. Or not.

But if they do, then the limited amount of work becomes even more limited, as guys are able to knock the jobs off quicker.
Then prices can start to come down.

So taking it to a point might be okay, but if it goes to where they start to respond, then it might start working against you some.

Just food for thought.

If you are going one company, and with flushers, not angle heads, then Can-Am. They have everything you need, and it's good quality.

Except if you do want an outside applicator for bead at some point, then not theirs. Columbia, instead. Just dremel the inside of the holding pins a bit, so it'll fit.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

I hear ya, but no one wants to hire out of town. They dont return calls or come back to do touchups. The last house that i hired out the drywall taping, me and my crew spent a day sanding and doing touchups behind him even tho he said he was all done and it was perfect. i called him back and havent heard from him since. I ate the cost of our labor for the three of us for a day and sent the taper the bill however i didnt get the money. People still call these guys because theres no one else that will or can do the bigger jobs.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Heres another question...can you run sheetrock 90 through these tools. I'm guessing you gotta be quick cause you deffinately dont get 90 min working time out of this mud. Second question...whats the way to go with flat boxes, 7-10 or 10-12"


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

jcampbell said:


> Heres another question...can you run sheetrock 90 through these tools. I'm guessing you gotta be quick cause you deffinately dont get 90 min working time out of this mud. Second question...whats the way to go with flat boxes, 7-10 or 10-12"


In Oz we run base 60 through the boxes. Been doing it for years without a problem. Just know your capabilities and keep an eye on the time.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> Heres another question...can you run sheetrock 90 through these tools. I'm guessing you gotta be quick cause you deffinately dont get 90 min working time out of this mud. Second question...whats the way to go with flat boxes, 7-10 or 10-12"


Don't what kind of volume you're going to be doing, but my older TapeTech 7" box has 1/2 the mud capacity of my 8" Columbia FatBoy box. I'd look at the 8".

Some go 7 and 10. 10 and 12 is popular for us. I use a 10" Columbia FatBoy and 12" std. size Columbia finishing box.

But am thinking to try the 8" and 12" combination. Possible better finish.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

gazman said:


> In Oz we run base 60 through the boxes. Been doing it for years without a problem. Just know your capabilities and keep an eye on the time.



I got the mix down with 90 set. sheetrock 90 (70/30) mud ratio, and run faster than a mare.....


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Really comes to choice on what you want to run angles with, I have everything Angle Box 3.5 finish head, I run tin head for first flush as dem boarders make a mess sometimes and beating the daylights outta a 2.5 Mechanical head ain't for me one job last year I left the site with a broken 3.5 blade and did I get anything for it nawww


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> I got the mix down with 90 set to sheetrock 90 (70/30) mud ratio, and run faster than a mare.....


 What kind of working time do you get with this mix?


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> What kind of working time do you get with this mix?



I can drop a pail no worries..... 90 mins plus 30% easy

well now it is a 119 mins, and now 118 mins 117 now....:jester:

then I add mud to that pail and mix it for bead.....

after wash mixer:whistling2:

carry a 7 ft. hose with nozzle to wash tools later


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

running boxes comes to choice also on what company you go with, sometimes not as the supplier of a perchicular brand might be a F%&$ head and try to rip ya, this is the reason for owning different brands in my set,

Don't listen to F8*k heads telling you that a mixed set is not right:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

buy a pump and boxes Campbell...You wont regret it!


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Hot mud is fine in the can am stuff, it's all really easy to clean.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys! If i had the extra coin i would deff get the whole set of everything....gotta start small tho. I can run through flats pretty quick with me trowell but its the corners that slow me down. I know the boxes r stupid fast compared to a trowell but i gotta start somewhere and my guys wont touch a corner.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Thanks for all the help guys! If i had the extra coin i would deff get the whole set of everything....gotta start small tho. I can run through flats pretty quick with me trowell but its the corners that slow me down. I know the boxes r stupid fast compared to a trowell but i gotta start somewhere and my guys wont touch a corner.


here let me explain it, if you buy a set down in America, you save one day a week, so whatever the day is worth there ya have it, paid off in no time...


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

saskataper said:


> I'd go with a 42" can-am tube, 2.5" and 3" can-am flushers a roller and a can-am inside corner applicator head and i liked the bte extension flusher handle cheap and easy
> 
> taping tools - YouTube


:whistling2:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

I know i could pay it off pretty quick. Guys here charge 75 cents/ft hung and taped i think. i know with a set of tools i could do it easily tape it out in a third of the time. They all taped by hand and dont "believe" in those tools blah blah blah. For example 4300 sqf house...2.5weeks to hang and aprox 3.5 to tape and sand ready for primer. Charged $15000 + 3 guys there to throw up the rock and 2 guys fillin. With a set of tools= dirty coin!


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

So heres a question i know its not the best way to do it. But could you put the mud on the angles with you knife and then come back and use the flushers. I know its not the fastest but I think it might leave a cleaner looking corner.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

I think it would be to slow. With the flushers or angle heads The mud can't set up at all before you go over it or it won't flush properly and you'll have a big mess. Having the right mud consistency is key. To thick and it won't feather out properly, to thin and you get mud running down the walls.


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

So best to get a tube and flusher heads all together.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Yup it's money we'll spent. Now that I think about it I would probably buy the Columbia tube, then if you decide to switch to angle heads they will fit on your tube. The ball on can am stuff is just a c hair to big for the heads. Also I'd think about getting columbias nylon inside applicator, I have the outside 90 applicator and it runs really smooth and is stupid easy to clean. Although the Columbia applicator will probably give you a little less working time as it puts on he mud in multiple thin lines where the can-am puts it on in one 3/4" strip on either side of the angle.


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

how wide is the outside applicator,


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

1 3/4"


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

PT, saskataper and JustMe - good posts - Wishing you well on it jcampbell. :mellow:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

So i have ben doing some scouting around and im thinking about the marshalltown columbia finishing set. Roughly 1699 plus whatever upgrades you want to add to it. It only has one angle head so im guessing i will need another size as well or can i 2 coat with the same size head? any pros or cons or other recomendations regarding this set or any others you guys prefer. Any one with some used gear they wan to get rid of like pumps flushers boxe ect. Would like to not have to fork out a couple grand to get started however i will . Who are the cheapest dealers . Ive been pricing wall-tools through their catalogue. Thanks in advance for any info.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> So i have ben doing some scouting around and im thinking about the marshalltown columbia finishing set. Roughly 1699 plus whatever upgrades you want to add to it. It only has one angle head so im guessing i will need another size as well or can i 2 coat with the same size head? any pros or cons or other recomendations regarding this set or any others you guys prefer. Any one with some used gear they wan to get rid of like pumps flushers boxe ect. Would like to not have to fork out a couple grand to get started however i will . Who are the cheapest dealers . Ive been pricing wall-tools through their catalogue. Thanks in advance for any info.


Sounds like you came to the right decision in selecting Columbia jcampbell. They are highly regarded by most on this forum (including myself).

As per angle heads, some get away with only one size but it is generally thought that 2 sizes is better. I did a poll a while back at what people prefer and you can be the judge of which is the best combination to go. http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/poll-how-you-finishing-your-inside-angles-2824/

Peace

Hey its international Peace Day everybody


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> Who are the cheapest dealers . Ive been pricing wall-tools through their catalogue. Thanks in advance for any info.


Dealers are all usually pretty close in price. It's a pretty competitive market. 
I deal with WallTools because I just think they're an awesome company and they're pretty involved with the guys on this site as well.
Plus you get a free shirt when you spend over $200 :thumbsup:
You'll also get a 10% off discount for being a DWT member.


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## walltools (Sep 15, 2009)

Hey JCAMPBELL,

Welcome to DrywallTalk.com! Your post inspired me to create a great little set of Internal Angle Tools for Drywall Finishing. Thanks for your post! 

Everyone is making some great points, and you are definitely in good hands following any of the advice I've read thus far. H

ere's my two cents, which kind of picks up where others have thrown down...

For around $800 or so you can get the following collection of tools in the illustration below (drawn by me tonight - just for you). It doesn't get you into Angle Heads or a Corner Box (like a true Automatic Taping Tools Finishing Set), but it does get you a couple Flushers, and all the other basics to get you started. 


*Wall Tools Drywall Finishing Set for Internal Angles (WT-ANGLESET)*




You can Customize this set at WallTools.com: http://www.walltools.com/drywall-internal-angle-inside-corner-tools-set.html

Now, I know you said that you only want to do angles for right now, but I'm going to throw this Set out to you to chew on as well. It's an Automatic Taping Tools Finishing Set by Columbia. It has all of the Inside Angle Tools you're going to need, plus Flat Boxes for all your flat joints. This set is money!

*Columbia Taping Tools Finishing Set (COL-FINISHING)*



You can Customize this set as well at WallTools.com: 
http://www.walltools.com/products/a...ets/columbia-finishing-set-col-finishing.html


If you have any questions, give us at call Monday-Friday 8AM-5PM.

Thanks!


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## walltools (Sep 15, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> So i have ben doing some scouting around and im thinking about the marshalltown columbia finishing set. Roughly 1699 plus whatever upgrades you want to add to it. It only has one angle head so im guessing i will need another size as well or can i 2 coat with the same size head? any pros or cons or other recomendations regarding this set or any others you guys prefer. Any one with some used gear they wan to get rid of like pumps flushers boxe ect. Would like to not have to fork out a couple grand to get started however i will . Who are the cheapest dealers . Ive been pricing wall-tools through their catalogue. Thanks in advance for any info.


I didn't see this post before I wrote my last post, but I guess I was spot-on as you also deduced to the Finishing Set. The other Set I configured for you would be a nice improvement from hand taping, but if you have the budget for the Finishing Set, you will not be disappointed. I hope my illustration does not go to waste. There are a lot of people in a similar situation to you that just haven't made the jump and haven't really navigated all of the options out there. 

Call us anytime.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> So i have ben doing some scouting around and im thinking about the marshalltown columbia finishing set. Roughly 1699 plus whatever upgrades you want to add to it. It only has one angle head so im guessing i will need another size as well or can i 2 coat with the same size head? any pros or cons or other recomendations regarding this set or any others you guys prefer. Any one with some used gear they wan to get rid of like pumps flushers boxe ect. Would like to not have to fork out a couple grand to get started however i will . Who are the cheapest dealers . Ive been pricing wall-tools through their catalogue. Thanks in advance for any info.


Not sure why you'd go Marshalltown by Columbia and pay more, as Aaron from Columbia said their line that's sold under the Columbia name is the same quality.
But either way, a good choice I'm thinking.

In your area, you could very probably get away with using corner flushers, rather than angle heads? I'd consider flushers, at least for a time, till you're sure you'd want angle heads. Flushers do a nice job, especially when newer, and without so many possible problems.

I like Brandon's 1st tool grouping. I'd choose a Columbia 42" mud tube for a tube, and you'll need a 2nd handle - one for the flushers and one for the corner roller. Getting a handle for flushers that's extendable could be good, as you have to put more pressure to the flushers than the roller, and length can give you better leverage at times. Also, can fit the flushers better into tighter places like closets, if you can reduce the handle length. Maybe a 3'-5' or 3'6"-6' extendable could be a good overall choice for you for flushers?

3" and 3 1/2" sized flusher combo seems to do a nice job.

In his 2nd grouping, I'd start with the pump and a 10" FatBoy, and a 12" std. size box. Box handle choice.....I do like the extendables, as you can change lengths on the go, for walls, ceilings, maybe stand up board at times as well, if you have stand ups to do.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

A btw, on Brandon's 1st tool grouping: To that I'd add a Columbia outside mud applicator, for doing corner bead - http://www.walltools.com/products/d...-outside-90-degree-mud-applicator-cext90.html


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

walltools said:


> Hey JCAMPBELL,
> 
> Welcome to DrywallTalk.com! Your post inspired me to create a great little set of Internal Angle Tools for Drywall Finishing. Thanks for your post!
> 
> ...


 Do you guys make a set or kit to put the wheels inside the width of box instead of sticking out wider?


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## walltools (Sep 15, 2009)

chris said:


> Do you guys make a set or kit to put the wheels inside the width of box instead of sticking out wider?


Yes, we do. Blue Line USA B2 Flat Boxes have the wheels are on the inside. Here's a link:







We also offer a Finishing Set for Blue Line USA as well. Just click the photo to get all of the details.



Thanks!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

If i was away 2 buy anything!
Make sure its a blueline corner box u get and columbia boxes!
The bluline cornerbox is the best out there and i would say the columbia boxes r the best also:thumbsup:
Also i would go blueline handle as its thicker but the new columbia handle looks better,thicker but i have not tried it!


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Well, i think im gonna bite the bullet and go with a blueline/tapepro compound tube-flusher combo . Just not sure on the flusher sizes. Im thinkin 2.5 and a 3.5 for finish glaze? Will the applicator put out enough mud to glaze with a 3.5 or would a 3 be good enough? Been trying to email wall tools through this site and through their site but havent heard back from them yet. Would it be beter to call the store? Thanks again everyone for all the tips and advice! Awesome forum. Do any of you guys run hotmud in a homax and if so how long are you getting out of it before it stiffens up too much to flush. Im guessing mix up enough to fill the homax and lay the tape till box is empty,clean it out and start over after tapes are wiped and flushed( do all internals first then flats )


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

jcampbell said:


> Well, i think im gonna bite the bullet and go with a blueline/tapepro compound tube-flusher combo . Just not sure on the flusher sizes. Im thinkin 2.5 and a 3.5 for finish glaze? Will the applicator put out enough mud to glaze with a 3.5 or would a 3 be good enough? Been trying to email wall tools through this site and through their site but havent heard back from them yet. Would it be beter to call the store? Thanks again everyone for all the tips and advice! Awesome forum. Do any of you guys run hotmud in a homax and if so how long are you getting out of it before it stiffens up too much to flush. Im guessing mix up enough to fill the homax and lay the tape till box is empty,clean it out and start over after tapes are wiped and flushed( do all internals first then flats )


 Get some 90 and go for an hour or so taping, dont clean it every 40 or 50 feet . You should get an easy hour out of 90 but you might want to wipe soon if by yourself. I dont like to tape with hotmud unless Im handtaping for that reason.It stiffens on wall pretty quick and dont shrink back like a good taping/ ap mix does ( Swelled tapes/ big butts ) Hot mud here swells and lacks glue,,, hard as hell but no real good stickums. Hope that helps. BTW Blueline:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

I have never even seen anybody in my area use compound tubes or flushers so I can't comment on their effectiveness. When it came time for me to go out on my own I not the bullet and bought a set of Columbia tools and never looked back! It was the best 2800$ I ever spent! I had never run a zook before but I learned quick. Ups dropped my tools off at six o clock on a Friday evening. I practiced feeding and cutting with a dry gun and a roll of tape and Saturday morning I was on a set of scaffolding taping a warehouse. The tools pay for themselves quickly and you will never regret the investment! Jobs around here move at a fast pace and without the automatic tools it would literally be impossible to make a living! Good luck!!


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks for the info Chris. I can't really afford a zooker yet mountain man . I know they r stupid fast tho and wil own one someday. Been contemplating a finishing set with an extra flusher head for tape coat but still not sure. What's a comfortable handle length for 9' lids? I'm 6'2" and can touch 8' flat footed with my fingertips. My practice house will have 9' ceilings. I guessing a 4' handle will be a bit short so I will have to upgrade the set to extension handles . Thanks again everyone for your help and advice in the last couple months . Greatly appreciated. Now for wall tools to return my emails and give me a killer deal on a set.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Thanks for the info Chris. I can't really afford a zooker yet mountain man . I know they r stupid fast tho and wil own one someday. Been contemplating a finishing set with an extra flusher head for tape coat but still not sure. What's a comfortable handle length for 9' lids? I'm 6'2" and can touch 8' flat footed with my fingertips. My practice house will have 9' ceilings. I guessing a 4' handle will be a bit short so I will have to upgrade the set to extension handles . Thanks again everyone for your help and advice in the last couple months . Greatly appreciated. Now for wall tools to return my emails and give me a killer deal on a set.


I will feed you info, if you make a vid of yourself trying to run the tools for the first time:thumbup:

Since you said they look so easy to run:whistling2:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Ah ah ah. Never said they were easy to run i dont think but just tht they were really fast . Will post a vid for ya all. Should be a good laugh! U should post a vid on jr running flats and angles with the tools. He deff got the taper down! Got a new pair of stilts comming. They should be better than my 4$ homemade ones. I will post a pic of them if I have one. Haha. But they work .:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> Ah ah ah. Never said they were easy to run i dont think but just tht they were really fast . Will post a vid for ya all. Should be a good laugh! U should post a vid on jr running flats and angles with the tools. He deff got the taper down! Got a new pair of stilts comming. They should be better than my 4$ homemade ones. I will post a pic of them if I have one. Haha. But they work .:yes:


The standard handles will work for you, I'm six foot tall and shrinking, so 8 or 9 foot will be nothing for you. The adjustable handles are not just for height though. they will adjust shorter than a standard handle, so you can do closets etc....Also, you state your getting stilts too.....so.....

For your tin angle heads, I recommend 2.5 to install/wipe tape, then a 3.5 to glaze/flush/coat. Don't bother with direct flushing, go angle applicator on tube, followed by wiping head on pole....so..... buy the 3.5 wiper, not the flusher... (flusher has a hole on it, and a "V" thing on them, they cost a little bit more)


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

So. A wiper is same as a flusher without hole in bottom. With hole would be direct flusher? 2.5 and 3.5 , no hole. Got it! Thanks dude. Cheap ebay stilts any good for someone who doesn't use them all the time? That's what I ordered for now


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

These work well for roller/angle handle and cheap

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Extension-Poles/Pole-Sander-Adapter.html

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Extension-Poles/Proxtend-Extension-Poles.html

forgot to link the angle ball, i picked one up from either allwall or walltools, this wroks well for me... but ya, I don't do many small closets :thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> So. A wiper is same as a flusher without hole in bottom. With hole would be direct flusher? 2.5 and 3.5 , no hole. Got it! Thanks dude. Cheap ebay stilts any good for someone who doesn't use them all the time? That's what I ordered for now


Yes:yes: at least where I live

My supply house guy calls the tin head without the hole, a wiper. The one with the hole, and the "V" thing you rip off as soon as you buy it, is called the flusher, and he considers himself to be a expert with the taping tools so:whistling2:

think you will find most on this site don't like the direct flushing method for doing the glazing/coating/flushing. It puts way too much mud on, and you half to keep passing over it, a lot !!!!!!!!

you would think indirect flushing takes long (2 steps) but it's not. Most times it is one pass with the wiper (maybe 2), and more easy to control, and applies less mud (faster dry time)


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks 2 buck 
Philma... Is that a double female adapter and will work for the marshal town male ended sander and is the corner roller threaded the same. So... With that adapter I could have any size handle I needed? Is there such a thing for the wiper head where I could adapt any size handle to it as well? I have several painters and sander poles I could use.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> Thanks 2 buck
> Philma... Is that a double female adapter and will work for the marshal town male ended sander and is the corner roller threaded the same. So... With that adapter I could have any size handle I needed? Is there such a thing for the wiper head where I could adapt any size handle to it as well? I have several painters and sander poles I could use.


Ya, it works on roller head/angle ball head and sanding head. Best invention ever made. EVER


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> Ya, it works on roller head/angle ball head and sanding head. Best invention ever made. EVER


Dammit, I keep forgetting I want one of those:thumbup:
My handle for the roller and My NS angle pole need replacing

Thank you,,, forgot all about that Philma:thumbup:


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> Ya, it works on roller head/angle ball head and sanding head. Best invention ever made. EVER


there is one better than that ! My poles snap apart form spotters/roller head/angle ball and so much more...no twisting


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

How does that work?


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

Since we're talking flusher stuff for the guys that use tin 2.5 flush 3.5 finish do you find that the 2.5 dosen't put a coat over the wide board flench and your finisher isny coating well enough. I was debating a 3 flush 3.5 finish do you think it would make that much of a difference, or am i wasting a hundred bucks:whistling2:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Was thinking the same thing but our board bevel is only 2 1/4 wide I think (certainteed pro roc) so 2.5 should work?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> Since we're talking flusher stuff for the guys that use tin 2.5 flush 3.5 finish do you find that the 2.5 dosen't put a coat over the wide board flench and your finisher isny coating well enough. I was debating a 3 flush 3.5 finish do you think it would make that much of a difference, or am i wasting a hundred bucks:whistling2:


3 to 3.5 is fine. I was merely stating for Jcambell to get a 2.5 since he is new to them.

In a really old thread, I mentioned how certain heads don't coat as wide as they claim

example

bought a 4" head, was having trouble running it, went over it with my 3.5, and guess what. The 4" was just as wide as my 3.5.

There are a few different brands out there, but in my opinion, they coat out different from each other. I was of the opinion the placement of the runner affects things, but justme was saying I was wrong:furious:

Just saying, one day me and another taper had all our beat up and new heads out. (about 8 of them) All the runners were in different spots, some more in, some more out. You could buy a 3" that coats out 2.75 wide

hope you get what I'm saying, a 3" can am can be very different from a BTE, a cr#p circle brand, or the tapepro ones, that we can't get yet


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> Since we're talking flusher stuff for the guys that use tin 2.5 flush 3.5 finish do you find that the 2.5 dosen't put a coat over the wide board flench and your finisher isny coating well enough. I was debating a 3 flush 3.5 finish do you think it would make that much of a difference, or am i wasting a hundred bucks:whistling2:


 I only use the 2.5 next to the door ways there the 3.5 dont fit


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Must be tricky when u flush a double bevel angle in ceiling/wall. So I guess it doesn't matter how wide the flusher is, but where the runners are placed on the head so they are out past the bevel?


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

you want to have at least a 3.5 finisher, if not you will and I say will encounter protruding bevels somewhere somehow sometime,


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> There are a few different brands out there, but in my opinion, they coat out different from each other. I was of the opinion the placement of the runner affects things, but justme was saying I was wrong:furious:


Not wrong, just misinformed. 

I believe I explained it before, but here it is again:

It's the amount of metal width at the back of the flusher, that touches the board when flushing, that determines width of mud laid down.

Example: My 3" Can-Am has 3" of metal width on each side that touches the board, so I get 3" wide mud on each side. My 3 1/2" Can-Am has 3 1/4" of metal width on each side that touches the board, so I get 3 1/4" of mud laid down from that.

Yet my 3" Can-Am's runners are placed 1/4" Wider on each side than are my 3 1/2" Can-Am's runners, when measuring from the flushers tips.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Not wrong, just misinformed.
> 
> I believe I explained it before, but here it is again:
> 
> ...


But,but,but.......

maybe around ten years ago, I bought a 4" tin wiper (not sure of brand) it only coated out 3.5 inches wide. When I compared it to my 3.5, the runners were in the same spot. Then a few days later, I got talking to another taper about the runners. So we pooled together all our wipers and flushers, and notice the runners were not all in the same spot. I forget the results now, but say you had a 3.5 wiper, and the runners were more in or out, you could buy a 3.5 that only coats 3" wide.

I think runner placement might have a affect on how wide they coat????

here's some pics, so you can see what I'm talking about,,,, maybe Tomg knows (tapepro)

Tapepro pic compliments of Gazman:yes:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

To me ....however I have no experience with these... The width of the coating is determined by where the end corners are bent over like wings and the runners are just there to keep the head square in the corner and on an angle to allow proper push /pull of the mud beneath the head while whiping keeping the mud contained under the tin .... If that makes sense? The wings keep the mud where it's supposed to be under the head and the skids as a guide to keep the head where it should be in relation to the corner. I know with the corner trowel when u wipe the corner, mud is squished outside the edge of the blade so u need to clean the edges with a knife and then wipe again intill mud doesn't squish out which is what a wiper does in a single pass( if ur good at it).


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> But,but,but.......
> 
> maybe around ten years ago, I bought a 4" tin wiper (not sure of brand) it only coated out 3.5 inches wide. When I compared it to my 3.5, the runners were in the same spot. Then a few days later, I got talking to another taper about the runners. So we pooled together all our wipers and flushers, and notice the runners were not all in the same spot. I forget the results now, but say you had a 3.5 wiper, and the runners were more in or out, you could buy a 3.5 that only coats 3" wide.
> 
> ...


I suspect the 4" you bought, that went 3 1/2", could've been a case of claims by the manufacturer that weren't based on reality - like we ran into when discussing angle heads actual widths.
Like my Can-Am that's sold as being a 3 1/2", but actually coats at 3 1/4". The reason for that being as I've already said - the width of one side of the flusher, from the tip to where the back is bent up in a 'winged' fashion, is 3 1/4" in length. If that width was greater, it would flush wider - providing I was using enough mud.

Next time you flush, take a look at how the mud moves on the backside - how it works itself out to the edge where the metal is bent up/'winged'. (If the mud's not doing that, I'd change flusher brands.)

The mud pretty much hits the backside of the flusher and works its way out to the flushers sides. The runners more help to keep the mud from spilling too much out the open sides, as well as help keep things squared some, so the flushers aren't wandering while using them - as well as keep the front part of the flusher up, and give the flusher a slope so that the mud flushes as it does.

At least that's my take on things.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes ...... Exactly what I was thinking ...............


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