# # Coats on screws



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Been a lot of talk about nail / screw spotters.... How many coats are you all giving them... When lite wait mud first came out most were only two coating because of less shrinkage , are any of you still doing that ? I reverted back after doing this for a while to min. of three on the walls and two on the ceilings or where any texture was going to be , in fact only one sometimes if it was a regular popcorn ceiling seemed to be just fine .... just curious to what others are doing..


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

at our company, i make it standard for our finishers to do two coats with the nail spotter, and one spot touch-up coat by HAND.

i find it gets them accustomed to training their eyes for detail, versus blindly running a tool over nailing patters.

however, if its a smooth-wall / level 5 type finish, i do 3 coats with the nail spotter, and a 4th spot touch-up coat by hand....

i usually repeat the above process on walls and ceilings, regardless.


.....good question stilts.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks , trying to change it up on the forum and get some wheels spinning ?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

We've given up on spotters on the 1st coat, as the fuzz from the occasional paper tear just stands up. The worker gets up-close and can see any defect and address it then. Then one coat with spotter. Third coat by hand pulling down the edges super tight.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

1st by hand, 2nd and 3rd with the spotter


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

*hand job*

Sounds like you are doing it the same as we are silverstilts.

Do not see the nail spotters up here much, prefer the hand method as not all the boarders leave perfect wall so doing the first coat by hand with a screwdriver in the pocket is recommended. Same as you, 3 on walls, 2 on ceilings to be sprayed.


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## Drywall_King (Dec 18, 2010)

1st coat by hand a scrape to nock off the mud that kinda fell down outta the hole first coat with taping mudd that kinda helps to bond any loose paper from miss's and pushed in paper... 2nd and third with spotter or by hand


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

three coats all by hand. first coat is straight out of box taping or all purpose. never used a nail spotter. i was talking to a finisher on the job the other day and he says only two coats. i really disagree. i've had too many teeny little shallows from doing two coats. i used to two coat when i first started.


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## IronRanger (Mar 2, 2011)

Me personally I use a 2" spotter on 1st and 2nd coats and then a 3" spotter on the 3rd coat. Textured walls and ceilings I only give 2 coats. I custom rigged a tool belt just for screw spotting where it has a screwdriver holder, hammer holder, and utility knife holder (for prepping cracks and bustouts sometimes missed and found while spotting)...oh and plus a 6" taping knife in the back pocket to tap in paper from the screw misses.

Guess I should add that small 1 room jobs or repairs I just do it by hand....lol


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## ns005 (Dec 23, 2010)

I do 3 coats by hand whether it's smooth or textured. Well only 2 on the lids if it's knockdown. I do the first 2 coats with a 5 and the 3rd with a 6 making sure it completely over laps the first 2 coats. I'm pretty anal about screws and it seems like 2 coats just doesn't cut it, plus we all know you miss a few here and there. I do it this way for peace of mind and, less touch up and it's another way to perfect myself. This way you KNOW that if someone decides to do some stupid super glossy paint you aren't going to see and divets.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

how many coats on an egghole?? 19??
or do you just cut the blister out?


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## 1/2 irish (Nov 21, 2010)

*Three coats, always...*

Three coats all the time. 1st & 2nd coats thin-line track of mud to marry all the screws together & then the 3rd coat a 6" mud path pulled tight. This makes the sanding so much easier. But always 3 coats.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> how many coats on an egghole?? 19??
> or do you just cut the blister out?


I think we should change the name egghole to BEAVER hole, we would take more pleasure in fixing them then :whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Always been 3 coats, Either by hand, or with spotters, or hand then spotters etc, Last job was the 3inch spotter twice then the DWM 5.5 box to finish, that seemed to go well, Yeah ok its too wide your all saying, So what, im still sanding it with a 220mm sander and it worked well, nice full coverage, couldnt pick it out after it was painted, and it spots single screws quite well without to much of a ridge, I did a job once with the 2inch spotter then the 3 twice, I thought it was sweet but once it was sealed many had sunkin a little, Not sure what happened there so one coat by hand helps that, But like i said, 2 coats with the 3 then one with the 5.5 last job, and it will be the next job as well :thumbsup: Its a sweet little box for no coat as well, and there short box handle will be good for it too, Cheers DWM.


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

2 spotter coats and a third as needed for orange peel . 2 spotter ,1 hand job and a 4th as needed for smoothwall.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

how many coats on flipped screw damage?
i hate those damn things.:cursing:


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

1st coat by hand with confil
2nd coat with 3" nail spotter
3rd coat is sprayed with 321 tip and wiped tight with 7" knife(I mount a spacer on the spray gun to keep the tip 6" from the wall and drag it across, deadly fast)

small jobs get done by hand and might get another coat


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Always been 3 coats, Either by hand, or with spotters, or hand then spotters etc, Last job was the 3inch spotter twice then the DWM 5.5 box to finish, that seemed to go well, Yeah ok its too wide your all saying, So what, im still sanding it with a 220mm sander and it worked well, nice full coverage, couldnt pick it out after it was painted, and it spots single screws quite well without to much of a ridge, I did a job once with the 2inch spotter then the 3 twice, I thought it was sweet but once it was sealed many had sunkin a little, Not sure what happened there so one coat by hand helps that, But like i said, 2 coats with the 3 then one with the 5.5 last job, and it will be the next job as well :thumbsup: Its a sweet little box for no coat as well, and there short box handle will be good for it too, Cheers DWM.


It's odd that you stated you used a 5" box to do final coat on screws, I was just thinking about that at work today when sanding. I was going to ask if anyone had tried it ,in a thread. I see no problem with it. I see a lot of guys are going DD 3" wide with the spotter, so whats the difference. I think it's more of a game if you want to put the money down on a 5.5" box. You should take pics of that :yes:

On our screws we go straight stiff, stroked out as thin as possible. we ball-peen hammer in anything that is bad.
second coat straight stiff again, single spot screws very tiny.
third coat we use 3" inch spotter. That totally encompasses/covers the 1st 2 coats. 2 strokes with the sander (idiot stick) and their done.

Just wondering if anyone has noticed that 2 coat screws take less effort to sand rather than 3 coats. Thats why we make the 2nd coat a small nail spot. It makes the sanding feel like your doing 2 coat screws:yes:

spray ceilings we go one coat stiff


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I think we should change the name egghole to BEAVER hole, we would take more pleasure in fixing them then :whistling2:


Nah, beaver holes are almost always perfect. Unless they're dirty beaver holes:blink:


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

Or


SlimPickins said:


> Nah, beaver holes are almost always perfect. Unless they're dirty beaver holes:blink:[/QUOTEOr]
> 
> Or a stinky beaver hole


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

smisner50s said:


> Or
> 
> 
> SlimPickins said:
> ...


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

I do whatever it takes. Sometimes 2, sometimes 4. Generally walls get 3. When they're wiped tight, they all sand easy, but I think 3x on screws nice and wide with thinner mud sands out nice.


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## 1drywaller (Mar 24, 2011)

Three coats on walls, all by hand. 1st straight compound as narrow as possible, 2nd same, 3rd with thinned compound and 6" knife.

Haven't had occasion to use spotter, was wondering what everyone thought of them vs. doing all by hand, do they save that much time?


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## ProbeGT (Mar 23, 2011)

2 coats by hand. One coat per pass on beads

2 coats on screws, 2 coats on beads. Coats need to be thicker than regular screw because the mud still shrinks a little. Nail spotter is gone to the museum. 1st coat is just impossible because it nevers fully fills the screw, then on 2nd coat it doesn't apply enough mud so we must apply a 3rd coat. 2 coats by hand is the best for us. A little more sanding but the porter cable just doesn't complain about that.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> It's odd that you stated you used a 5" box to do final coat on screws, I was just thinking about that at work today when sanding. I was going to ask if anyone had tried it ,in a thread. I see no problem with it. I see a lot of guys are going DD 3" wide with the spotter, so whats the difference. I think it's more of a game if you want to put the money down on a 5.5" box. You should take pics of that :yes:
> 
> On our screws we go straight stiff, stroked out as thin as possible. we ball-peen hammer in anything that is bad.
> second coat straight stiff again, single spot screws very tiny.
> ...


 
Here you go 2Buck, The 5.5 DM box used as a nail spotter and for No Coat, It works great, Its easy to sand, Just one pass with the flex and its sanded back sweet with great feathered edges, Same for the No Coat as well, One pass with sander then a little detail sanding and its great, Far superior than the 3inch spotter IMO :thumbsup: And it single spots without leaving big ridges as you can see in the pics. :yes:


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey Cazna, Why are the door jambs set before the drywall is finished?:blink:

Nice looking screw finish!:thumbsup:


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

talking about screws, sometimes 3 coats isn't enough. We do all our coats by hand, final coat a 5" knife pulled tight from top angle to joint or joint to bottem. I find the mud shrinks, and some, not all, like 10% of screws still need 1 more coat. I think its more better with 4 coats.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Muddauber said:


> Hey Cazna, Why are the door jambs set before the drywall is finished?
> 
> Nice looking screw finish!:thumbsup:


Probably because the door installers always mess up the drywall when installing it, and its better to let them install it after your 1st or 2th coat. Also, make sure to give 4-5/8" spacing when framing door openings, so your #3" knife fits in there.:blink:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

joepro0000 said:


> Probably because the door installers always mess up the drywall when installing it, and its better to let them install it after your 1st or 2th coat. Also, make sure to give 4-5/8" spacing when framing door openings, so your #3" knife fits in there.:blink:


2th? I thought those were the hard white things keeping my tongue company.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Muddauber said:


> Hey Cazna, Why are the door jambs set before the drywall is finished?:blink:
> 
> Nice looking screw finish!:thumbsup:


The door jambs are always set before the plaster in nz, [email protected]#Kin stupied isnt it, I got lucky with this job, It has door trims and i was able to coat the walls before they went on, Sometimes we get Revels, Which is a goove in the side of the door jamb for the board to fit into, Use your imagination to figure out how many butt joins that creates, And all the tight skinny corners, And did you notice the gap above the door, The builders F,ed up and thats a gap that has been expanding foamed then cut back, I hot mudded and fibafused it then top coated today.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

I hate the "edges" those tools leave.That's gonna need some sanding for sure.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

2 coats by hand and texture.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> I hate the "edges" those tools leave.That's gonna need some sanding for sure.


:jester:Lol, Edges huh Final touch, Yeah your absolutley correct :whistling2:, The edges are really really bad, Much worse than hand finishing, And i have to sand it for ages, Its really low quality work thats inferior to hand finishing, Its slower and i use more mud and not as flat and as even as by hand, Thats why after 10 years of doing it by hand i spent thousands on tools that are no good and slower and more work and i make less money with more effort????????? Hey FTD its actually the year 2011, Not 1102 just incase you havent noticed yet, There are multi million doller companys that have been producing tools for drywall for 50years, If the tool is not working, Guess what, Its not the tool, Its you :thumbsup: 

Ridges lol, Funny. Dont take this comment to personally FTD, Im not attacking you but im not into creating more work for myself, Mate its only a quick pass with the sander and its sweet, you can barely feel any ridges with your hand before its sanded, In fact you can easliy ruin it with the sander its that well feathered off. :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

My motto .... If you can feel it.. you can :icon_eek: it!
machine/hand... Edges all need sanding.
If i may quote the capt. THERE'S NO WRONG WAY TO DO IT RIGHT!:notworthy:

Clean job cazna. working around that trim is gotta be a b!tch!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

The proof of a good drywall job is in the painting,,,,,,

If the painter paints the job and its great,,, then the job is done right,, don't matter if it took two weeks with a hawk and trowel,, or 4 days with tools.

nuff said


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## raven (Feb 17, 2011)

a good primer is well worth the extra money. never cheap out on primer if you want a nice smooth finish.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Welcome back Capt, You and raven are corret on the painting, And Raven, That 4 inch Tapeworm head!!, Wow, Awsome  You and I both know :yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks Caz, the point of the matter is this,,,, we produce a flat surface to recieve paint, how long it takes us is irrelevent. PLUS the fact that a machine will ALWAYS produce a flatter surface than a human hand will, no matter how many years one has been doing it by hand.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cazna said:


> :jester:Lol, Edges huh Final touch, Yeah your absolutley correct :whistling2:, The edges are really really bad, Much worse than hand finishing, And i have to sand it for ages, Its really low quality work thats inferior to hand finishing, Its slower and i use more mud and not as flat and as even as by hand, Thats why after 10 years of doing it by hand i spent thousands on tools that are no good and slower and more work and i make less money with more effort????????? Hey FTD its actually the year 2011, Not 1102 just incase you havent noticed yet, There are multi million doller companys that have been producing tools for drywall for 50years, If the tool is not working, Guess what, Its not the tool, Its you :thumbsup:
> 
> Ridges lol, Funny. Dont take this comment to personally FTD, Im not attacking you but im not into creating more work for myself, Mate its only a quick pass with the sander and its sweet, you can barely feel any ridges with your hand before its sanded, In fact you can easliy ruin it with the sander its that well feathered off. :yes:


I was impressed with the uniformity of the finish, that's for sure. But I sort of had the same thought as Final Touch, it looked like it was heavy on the mud. BUT...how it looks in a photo and how it looks/feels in person are two totally different things. Personally, I don't have any opinion on hand vs. machines....you gotta do what you gotta do, whatever is right for your situation, preferences, or pocketbook.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

It all starts with the framing.. tools can and will leave bad edges on poor frame jobs.. no matter how well you can run them.. I have a builder right now that wants me to finish all his home L4 with texture.. use level on the windows shim every lump and bump on the ceiling and walls.. but does not want to pay extra for this,, expects it to be part of MY job.. well the framing is what I would consider an L2 product. Nails sticking out along the inside of the windows and bowed studs all over the place.. No Thanks.. I ain't working for the creep. anyone need a builder to work for??? got two maggots ready to hang and tape.. just can't find a good Drywaller.. wonder why?


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## raven (Feb 17, 2011)

I ran into a builder two days ago . He said that I used to much glue on his house, said he was using alot of caulking to fill the gaps on the baseboard and window trim. He thinks the glue is causing wavey walls. Glad to hear you like that 4" angle head Cazna. What brand flat boxes are you using.


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

raven said:


> I ran into a builder two days ago . He said that I used to much glue on his house, said he was using alot of caulking to fill the gaps on the baseboard and window trim. He thinks the glue is causing wavey walls. Glad to hear you like that 4" angle head Cazna. What brand flat boxes are you using.


Tell him to crown check his studs before he puts them in...


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

raven said:


> I ran into a builder two days ago . He said that I used to much glue on his house, said he was using alot of caulking to fill the gaps on the baseboard and window trim. He thinks the glue is causing wavey walls. Glad to hear you like that 4" angle head Cazna. What brand flat boxes are you using.


Smisners right. that's the framing. 
Had a wanna be builder ask me to run the bottom recess on all bottom 
sheets in house . So his trim wouldn't tuck in. dumb a$$ didn't know how
to put the base board down. Told him.. NOPE!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Smisners right. that's the framing.
> Had a wanna be builder ask me to run the bottom recess on all bottom
> sheets in house . So his trim wouldn't tuck in. dumb a$$ didn't know how
> to put the base board down. Told him.. NOPE!


Sheesh, doesn't he know he's supposed to rip a bunch of framing lumber into 1/8 strips? :laughing:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

raven said:


> I ran into a builder two days ago . He said that I used to much glue on his house, said he was using alot of caulking to fill the gaps on the baseboard and window trim. He thinks the glue is causing wavey walls. Glad to hear you like that 4" angle head Cazna. What brand flat boxes are you using.


I have tapetech easy cleans, I like them, Nice boxes once you figure things out, That 4inch head produces the greatest corner, Im very, very happy with it :yes: You dont hear much about tapeworm gear?? It never seems to get a mention??


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## raven (Feb 17, 2011)

Tapeworm in my opinion are the more tougher of the mechanical tools. I bought a set of columbia taping tools and I think their pump is the smoothest pump their is . Glad to hear you like that4" head . What are you glazing with.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Sheesh, doesn't he know he's supposed to rip a bunch of framing lumber into 1/8 strips? :laughing:


 I'm no trim carpenter . BUT i know how most flush there base.
this guy didn't last but a few years... :thumbup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> I'm no trim carpenter . BUT i know how most flush there base.
> this guy didn't last but a few years... :thumbup:


You know, you could have said "sure, I'll fill the recess for the base, but I want 20% of the trim payout". :whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Here you go 2Buck, The 5.5 DM box used as a nail spotter and for No Coat, It works great, Its easy to sand, Just one pass with the flex and its sanded back sweet with great feathered edges, Same for the No Coat as well, One pass with sander then a little detail sanding and its great, Far superior than the 3inch spotter IMO :thumbsup: And it single spots without leaving big ridges as you can see in the pics. :yes:


HHHHmmmmmm
did you skim tight with it or load with it, looks loaded. but it could be your mud is really really white, and your drywall is a dark grey. What got me thinking would it work or not is #1 you would half to set up the box to skim tight (possible spring adjustment) #2 what type of edge will it leave. So the Goldie locks theory kicks in:yes: meaning......you get the box to run tight, but there's a edge. Eliminate the edge but it loads, you got to find perfect.

and cazna, read my last post, 2 strokes with the idiot stick and my screws are done. Their only 3" wide finished. I thought the 5.5 box would be good for guys like you who use a power sander. less chance at fuzzing up the paper. Screws are what???? 1/4 or 3/8 inch wide (6mil). Their a extremely tiny object we half to hide. I was taught the last coat on screws had to be just a bit wider than the pole sanding head you were sanding with. Since all the old sanding heads were around 4" wide (10 cm) and you held it at a 15 degree angle to sand. That meant your head was covering a area of 5"s or so. Just enough to not burr/fuzz the crap out of the paper. The screws were coat with a 6" knife of coarse.

But those mud's in the old days were a b1tch to sand. One high lift mark and you could be 60 strokes with the pole to get rid of it. The mud's today are so soft,,,,so..... no need to goes as big IMO

TRIM BEFORE you tape. that's a death sentence to the trimmer where I live


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

raven said:


> a good primer is well worth the extra money. never cheap out on primer if you want a nice smooth finish.


I always thought a primer is just a sealer to hold the paint. Any primer should do fine, its a good paint you need, no?


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

joepro0000 said:


> I always thought a primer is just a sealer to hold the paint. Any primer should do fine, its a good paint you need, no?


 nope nope nope .primer is most important.most most most.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PRIMER is the base to a good paint job.:hang:
without primer ,,, why bother calling yourself a painter??
sorry,, not all.. but some painters here say 2 coats of paint will do. they refuse to use primer
due to the time factor. here the no primer painters ,,are the worst painters !


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

joepro0000 said:


> I always thought a primer is just a sealer to hold the paint. Any primer should do fine, its a good paint you need, no?


 I would agree with that. I would put ICI hide hide primer $36.00 per 5 gal vs any high end stuff. Spend the money on the paint with a high solids content. Though if I was gonna use a expensive primer it would be prep-rite primer/sealer from SW. The test for a primer for me is do I have to sand it before painting. Spray it on , backroll then after it driesfeel the paper to see if its rough. Of course I do stick sand it lightly to get of any boogers, but not to smooth out roughness of the paper. I really like the ICi HH due to the fact it has a shine to the finish. That way if theres any small imperfections they can be picked up by a trained eye.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Final touch drywall said:


> I hate the "edges" those tools leave.That's gonna need some sanding for sure.


Not trying to be a smart ass but I've just been to that job in the photos and the camera lies in this case, it was well blended, came up good too :thumbsup:.


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