# Angle Head Combinations



## Mudshark

Which combination of angle heads seem to work for you?


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## TonyM

Flush the tape with a Rol-plow, and finish with a Northstar 2 1/2" corner finisher on an Apla-tech Canon.


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## Bevelation

^ A dinky 2½" for finish?! Does it feather all right?

For me., 3 for flushing, 3 for finishing.


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## Whitey97

<--- 2 1/2" 

I was told the 3" wasn't worth it, and you have to push too hard.


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## Bevelation

^Poop on what you're told.


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## Whitey97

that's what the guys at "Al's taping tools" told me


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## Muddauber

Well, poop on Big Al :laughing:


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## Whitey97

ha ha


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## Bevelation

I can imagine 1wallboardsman putting his comment in as to what he thinks of the guys behind the counter. 

So would you take a taper's view or the cash clerk's?


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## Apple24

2-1/2for tape 3-1/3 to coat tried all combos works great no edge and dont usually sand much between.Ive been in bus for over 20 years and the first thing i was taught was to overlap every coat why build up an edge to sand off no matter what your coating. 3-1/2 is made by northstar and a great tool nevr touched it in 2 years runs great never sand to tape.


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## Whitey97

I measured mine, since I've never really paid attention. Mine is a 3 1/2. Al told me not to mess with anything larger than that, meaning 4" and bigger.


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## [email protected]

Al needs to sell you a mudrunner. You'll S***can all those others.


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## Whitey97

Yeah, I know I've used it a few times, however the need for one these days just isn't the same here as it used to be. If it were 5 years ago, I would be kicking myself for not having one. Right now though, it's just not worth it


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## Apple24

[email protected] said:


> Al needs to sell you a mudrunner. You'll S***can all those others.


 ya still need the right head to do the crrect job
:thumbup:


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## Apple24

Bevelation said:


> ^ A dinky 2½" for finish?! Does it feather all right?
> 
> For me., 3 for flushing, 3 for finishing.


If you bought a 3-1/2 you would **** how much easier it would be to sand allways overlap your edges. Do you run a 6" on all your screws 3 times or do you cover over the previous. My point is wht build up an edge when you can coat over it. 2-1/2 then 3-1/2 perfect everytime. Als right though 4" heads suck they leave an edge no matter what. Tried all combo's 2 1/2 then 3 1/2 With lite blue mud perfect.


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## Whitey97

maybe it's time to go get a 2 1/2.


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## tapingfool

watch my friend john he is great, I am buying some new boxes and spotters from him soon..


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## Whitey97

hmmm.... I'm not really sure what to think of your friend John. Thank him though for me, he's single handedly taught over 1000 amigo's


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## tapingfool

Just to add, I just did a 6 room house, and ran the 2 1/2 then the 3 1/2 and minimal sanding, pushing, touch-up...tapetech


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## Apple24

Anything over a 3 1/2 will leave a nasty edge. Dont care for the 4'' head threw it away my 3 1/2 over a 2.5 tape head works great.why build up an edge running the same head twice,too much sanding and should be struck by hand a final time running same head twice.


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## tapingfool

Apple24 said:


> Anything over a 3 1/2 will leave a nasty edge. Dont care for the 4'' head threw it away my 3 1/2 over a 2.5 tape head works great.why build up an edge running the same head twice,too much sanding and should be struck by hand a final time running same head twice.


 
what do you mean by that last sentence?

should be struck by hand a final time running same head twice.


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## tapingfool

I wonder of anyone has ever ran the corner box during the first coat with the 2 then three for the second?


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## Apple24

tapingfool said:


> what do you mean by that last sentence?
> 
> should be struck by hand a final time running same head twice.


 
MEANING running 6'' down the edge of the corners because of the buildup.Years ago i ran a 3 twice always built up edge.Then i smartened up and bought 2.5 columbia and 3.5 northstar head. I rarely sand between coats they work together so well.
BTW; I do know a guy who uses the 3.5 for taping and 2.5 for coating but he tapes by hand and uses a donut roller for applying mud, so the mud takes up more rolling it on vs running a a corner box in a quick pass or two.In my opinion the only way to coat the corner or anything is to overlap edges right.I dont coat my screws with 12-10-6'' knives.


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## Bevelation

Apple24 said:


> If you bought a 3-1/2 you would **** how much easier it would be to sand allways overlap your edges. Do you run a 6" on all your screws 3 times or do you cover over the previous. My point is wht build up an edge when you can coat over it. 2-1/2 then 3-1/2 perfect everytime. Als right though 4" heads suck they leave an edge no matter what. Tried all combo's 2 1/2 then 3 1/2 With lite blue mud perfect.


From whatever mud I've used, I haven't had problems with not overlapping.

Well, as it is it's very easy to sand currently with the 3/3. It's never given me any fallout. Don't get me wrong, I DO want to get a 3½", I just want to know that I'm going to keep working past June first.

I don't like coating over ridges, just doesn't look healthy. So, I try not to make them.


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## tapingfool

THis hand taper fella came to my job the other day, and refused to coat angles run by the roller and glazer, he said you have to go over it twice, So he walked off the job, as I was running the corners with the three..and got paid whilst he was home...


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## Whitey97

very nice. I'm assuming he was a veteran taper refusing to learn the "new" ways


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## brdn_drywall

same goes for us have you ever tried flushing over a tape that wasn't rolled and hand wiped at the tape stage, well lets just say doesn't work to well the tape is not recessed far enough and blades take it to the tape.
for him when we roll and flush that tape is to far back probably requiring 2 coats, but your the one who started the corners so your better off finishing them if he hasn't the tools.


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## tapingfool

All i did was sand the edges with a virtual run thru and they were done..ever try these tools for corners?

http://www.leadingedgedrywall.com/search.aspx?search=better-than-ever


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## brdn_drywall

flushers wear out to quick, even though their cheap enough, i think their still a bad choice in the long run.
if your going to take that approach to tools then go with can-am much better quality imo.


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## carpentaper

tapingfool said:


> All i did was sand the edges with a virtual run thru and they were done..ever try these tools for corners?
> 
> http://www.leadingedgedrywall.com/search.aspx?search=better-than-ever


i'm considering getting the can am ones someday. i'm getting pretty bored of finishing inside corners by hand.


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## Bevelation

^Don't mess around. Get what works. Mechanical angle heads are the way to go.

My boss decided to try the BTE flushers again after we used my 3" to finish angles for nearly a year. Yeah, let's just say we have to sand more.


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## A+ Texture LLC

I just ordered the last of my columbia stuff to have a complete set, started with just a 3, was debating whether to use a 2.5 or 2, all-wall person said I should get the 2 for the first coat. I'm a little worried the taper will put on a little to much mud on though. Or will I be fine with it?


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## Muddauber

A+ Texture LLC said:


> I just ordered the last of my columbia stuff to have a complete set, started with just a 3, was debating whether to use a 2.5 or 2, all-wall person said I should get the 2 for the first coat. I'm a little worried the taper will put on a little to much mud on though. Or will I be fine with it?


 
The only time I've used the 2" was to finish the angles close to the steel door frames on comercial jobs. 

You may want to reverse that system & tape with the 3", then finish with the 2".:thumbsup:


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## Bevelation

A+ Texture LLC said:


> I just ordered the last of my columbia stuff to have a complete set, started with just a 3, was debating whether to use a 2.5 or 2, all-wall person said I should get the 2 for the first coat. I'm a little worried the taper will put on a little to much mud on though. Or will I be fine with it?


Nix 2" on tapes. Won't bury bevels enough and they'll show (sometimes depends board brand and type). I use a 3" to tape and it helps cover that up.


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## A+ Texture LLC

Bevelation said:


> Nix 2" on tapes. Won't bury bevels enough and they'll show (sometimes depends board brand and type). I use a 3" to tape and it helps cover that up.


 Which one do you use for your second?


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## Mudshark

*Mechanical or tin flusher*

Bevelation,

Is that first pass on tapes with a mechanical flusher or a tin flusher?

What is your second pass?

:hammer:


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## Bevelation

3" angle head for tapes. Same 3" for finishing. No issues presently.

It's only because of not knowing how much work I have coming up that I'm not using a 3.5" to get some overlap.


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## chasleem

tapingfool said:


> watch my friend john he is great, I am buying some new boxes and spotters from him soon..
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnQvnHLlNcA


 LOL thats a good reason not to go in that direction. sorry that made me laugh. no offense just made me laugh


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## one man and his dog

must over lap your coats , its a must. rolplow then a 3 1/2 finisher


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## McDusty

one man and his dog said:


> must over lap your coats , its a must. rolplow then a 3 1/2 finisher


exactly.

2.5" for tapes / 3.5" for finish coat.


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## Capt-sheetrock

No No No, 3 1/2 for tape and 2 1/2 for finish coat.

We are not hand finishing,, the bigger head first followed by a smaller head. If you feel that you need to go bigger on every coat, why are you not still hand finishing???

Next ,,,,,,


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## Bevelation

Capt-sheetrock said:


> No No No, 3 1/2 for tape and 2 1/2 for finish coat.
> 
> We are not hand finishing,, the bigger head first followed by a smaller head. If you feel that you need to go bigger on every coat, why are you not still hand finishing???
> 
> Next ,,,,,,


I'm not sure if that would work with BTE flusher systems.

If one feels they need to go bigger on every coat, why would it matter anyway? It all takes the same amount of time when coating.


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## Mudstar

Bevelation said:


> I'm not sure if that would work with BTE flusher systems.
> 
> If one feels they need to go bigger on every coat, why would it matter anyway? It all takes the same amount of time when coating.



I beg to differ


JS


Shhh capt.....


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## Saul_Surfaces

when I used BTE flushers I used to have to always go bigger. I don't know why exactly. Must have had something to do with the fact they had narrow skids instead of guides the whole width. using a 2.5" flusher after a 3" left me with too much build.

I follow my 3" tapetech head with a 2" now that I use proper angle heads.


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## taper71

Capt yor probably the only one that could get a nice tape coat using the 3 1/2 first because you use the mudrunner to tape with. I use a 3" to tape and a 3 1/2" to finish, but I also give a fast rough sand before final coat to take down any ridges and shape the mud flat where needed. I ve tried finishing with the 2 1/2" but it just don t feel right to me lol.


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## 2buckcanuck

this is one battle that you could fight over till the cows came home.I won't even get into my system ,for I know it's more time consuming but it's easier on my body (shoulders gone and getting old).I have found if you half to join forces with another machine taper angles are the 1st thing you will fight over,The second thing you will fight over is corner bead [ how to put them on,what type ,2 coat them,2 and 1/2 coat them,3 coat them,use sheet rock,dont use sheet rock etc .hand tapers work better in conjunction with each other ,as opposed to their machine taper counter parts,BUT hand tapers usually union with foreman calling shots all day ,while machine tapers are independent and their own boss.
So the only right way of doing things is the way I do it,and every one else is wrong :jester:do I sound like a typical taper.


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## Mudstar

2buckcanuck said:


> this is one battle that you could fight over till the cows came home.I won't even get into my system ,for I know it's more time consuming but it's easier on my body (shoulders gone and getting old).I have found if you half to join forces with another machine taper angles are the 1st thing you will fight over,The second thing you will fight over is corner bead [ how to put them on,what type ,2 coat them,2 and 1/2 coat them,3 coat them,use sheet rock,dont use sheet rock etc .hand tapers work better in conjunction with each other ,as opposed to their machine taper counter parts,BUT hand tapers usually union with foreman calling shots all day ,while machine tapers are independent and their own boss.
> So the only right way of doing things is the way I do it,and every one else is wrong :jester:do I sound like a typical taper.



Aggeed on everything......


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> this is one battle that you could fight over till the cows came home.I won't even get into my system ,for I know it's more time consuming but it's easier on my body (shoulders gone and getting old).I have found if you half to join forces with another machine taper angles are the 1st thing you will fight over,The second thing you will fight over is corner bead [ how to put them on,what type ,2 coat them,2 and 1/2 coat them,3 coat them,use sheet rock,dont use sheet rock etc .hand tapers work better in conjunction with each other ,as opposed to their machine taper counter parts,BUT hand tapers usually union with foreman calling shots all day ,while machine tapers are independent and their own boss.
> So the only right way of doing things is the way I do it,and every one else is wrong :jester:do I sound like a typical taper.


 
I agree on everything also,,, except that MY way is the best way,,,,:whistling2:


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## michel1949

*still confuse over angle heads*

i have read the whole post
and found out that everyone is different

the last job i done was by hand i dint had any mechanical tool then i took 2 weeks vacation and in the meanwhile i got some mechanical tools
the taper, the boxes, the corner roller, the angle box with a tapetec 3 inches angle head
so i read this post to know if i would buy a 3 1/2 to flush and use the 3 to finish 
or if i should use the 3 to flush and get a 2 1/2 to finish

as of for now i think the best decision would be to use the 3 inches to flush and the same 3 to finish and see what will happend and if i am not satisfied i will then get the 3 1/2 or a 2 1/2

i would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the post at least i got the idea on how to work with the angle head(s)

thanks for your time and patience


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## 2buckcanuck

the boys from Columbia should be jumping in on this thread.The place where I buy my tools and get repairs(use to be called ib*)state the MANUFACTURERS recommend big to small for mechanical,small to big for can am,but there's so many ways and different tools now .come on columbia ,chime in


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## Mudstar

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I agree on everything also,,, except that MY way is the best way,,,,:whistling2:


agreed agreeing


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## proficient Mudder

I honestly have never used anything but a 3 inch head. I feel that it's all in the framing, hanging and how the tape is rolled in when taping out that decides a bad angle. if the angle comes out with and edge, I normally will just hand skim any edged areas or high spots that tape might show that might be a pain to sand over the norm.

Bill


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

2buckcanuck said:


> the boys from Columbia should be jumping in on this thread.The place where I buy my tools and get repairs(use to be called ib*)state the MANUFACTURERS recommend big to small for mechanical,small to big for can am,but there's so many ways and different tools now .come on columbia ,chime in


It is all in user preference for sizes. If you are only going to own one anglehead I would say you should go with the 3". I prefer to work down in size starting with a 3" or 3.5" and finishing with the 2.5". It is much easier to run the cornerbox for your finish coat with the 2.5" also it is easier to run inside the first coat rather than try to feather out past it and an added bonus you save mud finishing with the smaller head.

Aaron


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## cazna

Do you guys that run a 3.5 or 3 first then a 2.5 last have any trouble withthe 2.5 edge scratching at all, I run a 2.5 then a 3.5 becouse i thought that the 2.5 last may scratch things up a bit, i guess it does not? Im a mudruuner user so dont need to push much, might give the 3.5 then a 2.5 a go, The old man at drywallmaster tools told me to run it that way so there must be some merit in it, just seems arse about?? you dont start with a 12 box working down to a 7 do you??


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## proficient Mudder

cazna said:


> Do you guys that run a 3.5 or 3 first then a 2.5 last have any trouble withthe 2.5 edge scratching at all, I run a 2.5 then a 3.5 becouse i thought that the 2.5 last may scratch things up a bit, i guess it does not? Im a mudruuner user so dont need to push much, might give the 3.5 then a 2.5 a go, The old man at drywallmaster tools told me to run it that way so there must be some merit in it, just seems arse about?? you dont start with a 12 box working down to a 7 do you??


My thoughts would be that I would be sanding a double edged angle from the 2.5" size heads? I hate sanding, so skimming for a miminum of dust is a must.
I haven't used the smaller head other than the 3", so just curious how hard it is to sand the angles out with the 2.5 over the 3" ?

Bill


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

cazna said:


> Do you guys that run a 3.5 or 3 first then a 2.5 last have any trouble withthe 2.5 edge scratching at all, I run a 2.5 then a 3.5 becouse i thought that the 2.5 last may scratch things up a bit, i guess it does not? Im a mudruuner user so dont need to push much, might give the 3.5 then a 2.5 a go, The old man at drywallmaster tools told me to run it that way so there must be some merit in it, just seems arse about?? you dont start with a 12 box working down to a 7 do you??


It's different for the angleheads, like I said it's preference, you can do it either way unlike the boxes. The only way it will scratch things up is if the blades are too sharp. The sanding is about the same whether you do it small to big or big to small, either way you are just cleaning up anything that is left behind whether it is inside or outside the first coat.


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## proficient Mudder

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> It's different for the angleheads, like I said it's preference, you can do it either way unlike the boxes. The only way it will scratch things up is if the blades are too sharp.
> quote]
> 
> Speaking of blades being to sharp, with a new tool or a changed blade I always take a piece of sandpaper and sand just alittle on the blades corners to make it smoother eliminating scratching/cutting into the board.
> 
> Bill


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## DSJOHN

For what its worth---I roll the angle then glaze immediately with a 3" flusher-next day I run my 2 1/2 angle head with my apla-tech and my angles are complete [except for fixing the 3way]


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## Capt-sheetrock

I use a 3 1/2 to first coat, cause with 54", the bevel is wider than 48" and the 3" doesn't cover as well. I use a 2 1/2 (preferably) for the second coat. If your smaller head is leaveing a ridge on the corner, it is not adjusted right. nuff said.

As far as boxes go, you can run the big box first, the smaller second and you will not see any differance. Tools will not leave any noticable edge on "mud", meaning that the "ridge" problem only occurs on "paper" not on mud.

I could be wrong,, but I'm not !!:thumbup:


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## SaskMud

Capt-sheetrock said:


> No No No, 3 1/2 for tape and 2 1/2 for finish coat.
> 
> We are not hand finishing,, the bigger head first followed by a smaller head. If you feel that you need to go bigger on every coat, why are you not still hand finishing???
> 
> Next ,,,,,,



Well I tried it out... sounds crazy in my head it was rediculous, but as long as you have the right mud consitency, and with that 2 1/2 not caking it on... like one of my guys did in the closet (that god it was there... not in the room with 5 windows pointing to the noon's sun....)

I ran a quick light 150 grit (or a heavyer 180) and finished with a 220, and then finished the non-polesander-able areas with a fine sponge

Great advice capt!


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## D's

I tried the Capt's trick on my last house too... 3.5 then a 2.5

On the plus side I didn't have to clean the blades on the second pass as often and there were hardly any scratches from debris. Noticed that it didn't gouge out joints that run into the corner as much either, which saved on touch ups.

Only bad thing I could say is that it may have taken slightly longer to dry.

Now that I've gotten the hang of my APLA setup I can't believe how easy corners are to do. I recommend it, at least while we're waiting to see what Rick comes out with.

On the sanding side... I tried another of Capt's tricks(can't believe he was right twice in a row) and used a Spear corner sander. I use burned out radius 360 discs, folded in half, and stuck to the corner sander. Sharpens them right up after a couple of passes making for an easier final sponge and light. Worked well and saved time on the stilts staring into corners.

Dare I ask how the Capt. picks his corners?

D'S


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## Capt-sheetrock

One of the hardest things, if not THE hardest thing about going from hand finishing to tools, is realizing that some things will be done differantly. Lord knows we are a hard-headed bunch that just hates change in any shape form or fashion. 

One reason for running bigger than smaller angleheads is that by doing so, you don't pick up the trash from the edge that will build up on your head and make grooves in your finish coat. Anything that reduces trash in a tool is a good thing,,,NO ?????.

About picking corners,,, I guess I do like everyone else does. I use a 5" to pick with, mainly cause I don't own a 6. If you have a 5, you don't need a 4 and a 6. I used to run hand finish corners with a 4, but since I got tools, I quit carring them. I wipe tape with a 7" (old wallboard) they quit making em in 1976, so they are hard to come by, but you can buy an 8" and cut the blade down to 7" with a set of snips. The reason is this, a 6 will leave too much mud running off the edges of the knife and an 8 will span the bevel too far and leave the tape "proud" meaning you will have to "bust-out" many places after the bed coat cause your tapes to high. The size of the knife on wiping tape is really THAT important. Just try it, you can buy a stainless 8 at Blowes for around 8 bucks, what have got to loose, cept some old out of date pre-conceptions.

Heck, I'd bet 8 bucks on an elephant race.:thumbsup:


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## SaskMud

Hey Capt, what do you mean a 5'' to pick with??


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## Mudstar

SaskMud said:


> Hey Capt, what do you mean a 5'' to pick with??


3 ways and and do it twice and do it tight on your final


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## Capt-sheetrock

Mudstar said:


> 3 ways and and do it twice and do it tight on your final


Thanks, thats what I meant. Also, on the first pass, if you have a tape that is proud or whatever, add a bit of mud on the first pic, then as Mud says, wipe it tight then second time.


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## proficient Mudder

Mudstar said:


> 3 ways and and do it twice and do it tight on your final


I personally always pull my final coat the opposite direction and covering the complete first pass tight for easier sanding and avery smooth blocked corner.

Bill


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## 2buckcanuck

capt sheetrock
"The size of the knife on wiping tape is really THAT important."
it's not the tool it's in our strokes .If you ran a knife straight down the joint at 90 degrees you would be right,but we dont do that do we(mud would be on the floor). If I used a 12" knife,the top of the knife would start on the tape,then held at a 20 degree angle,you do a long curving motion to where the tape is at the bottom of knife.most of our hand work has a distinct curving or diagonal motion to it(think corner bead).Holding the knife at a certain degree and pressure causes more surface retention applied to the bevell (think bow and arrow)
where the tool could come into play is using a coating knife and not a wiping knife,wiping knife being those blue tempered knife's that flex like crazy,I could get desired results with either knife,just wiping knife requires less pressure .plus throw in runny bazooka mud.....so it's in your stroking


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## proficient Mudder

2buckcanuck said:


> capt sheetrock
> "The size of the knife on wiping tape is really THAT important."
> it's not the tool it's in our strokes .If you ran a knife straight down the joint at 90 degrees you would be right,but we dont do that do we(mud would be on the floor). If I used a 12" knife,the top of the knife would start on the tape,then held at a 20 degree angle,you do a long curving motion to where the tape is at the bottom of knife.most of our hand work has a distinct curving or diagonal motion to it(think corner bead).Holding the knife at a certain degree and pressure causes more surface retention applied to the bevell (think bow and arrow)
> where the tool could come into play is using a coating knife and not a wiping knife,wiping knife being those blue tempered knife's that flex like crazy,I could get desired results with either knife,just wiping knife requires less pressure .plus throw in runny bazooka mud.....so it's in your stroking


I agree with the stroking. I have seen guys tear some tape up pulling with a 6" and seen guys float the tape with a flexable 8". 
it's all in the understanding of how much pressure to apply to having the tape recessed like it should be. I also like to pull my excess mud that i pull out of from under the tape, back through the bevel as I continue wiping down. That way the tape is recessed and the bevel is full beside the tape.

Bill


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## Capt-sheetrock

proficient Mudder said:


> I agree with the stroking. I have seen guys tear some tape up pulling with a 6" and seen guys float the tape with a flexable 8".
> it's all in the understanding of how much pressure to apply to having the tape recessed like it should be. I also like to pull my excess mud that i pull out of from under the tape, back through the bevel as I continue wiping down. That way the tape is recessed and the bevel is full beside the tape.
> 
> Bill


Doing that, you might as well hand tape,,, The WHOLE resaon for tools, is getting that tape down BELOW the bevel


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> capt sheetrock
> "The size of the knife on wiping tape is really THAT important."
> it's not the tool it's in our strokes .


Thats like the guys that say its the "size of the wave, not the motion of the ocean" to which I always reply,,,,, "thats what all you needle-**** bug****ers say"

The knife you are using is EVERYTHING !!!!!!!


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## Capt-sheetrock

I underatand that I just pee'd off a cpl cool dudes, but the truth will stand when the worlds on fire


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## proficient Mudder

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Doing that, you might as well hand tape,,, The WHOLE resaon for tools, is getting that tape down BELOW the bevel


I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I definetly make sure the tape is recessed in the bevel and from one end to the other i just continue to pull the tape tight with pulling some of the excess mud with it to smooth out beside the tape even as it is still recessed. I couldn't think of my technique being the same as hand taping as I normally average around 500 board a 8 hour day when taping with 2 guys wiping down.

I really am enjoying this site as there are some true pros here and sharing ideas,tips and experience with everyone is really cool.

Bill


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## Capt-sheetrock

proficient Mudder said:


> I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I definetly make sure the tape is recessed in the bevel and from one end to the other i just continue to pull the tape tight with pulling some of the excess mud with it to smooth out beside the tape even as it is still recessed. I couldn't think of my technique being the same as hand taping as I normally average around 500 board a 8 hour day when taping with 2 guys wiping down.
> 
> I really am enjoying this site as there are some true pros here and sharing ideas,tips and experience with everyone is really cool.
> 
> Bill


Yes, but you have to admit that you took acception to me saying that a 7" knife was the definiative answer to tapeing,,,, thats what I meant about we are a hard-headed bunch that doesn't want to learn anything new, if it differs from what we already think we know.


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## Capt-sheetrock

proficient Mudder said:


> I agree with the stroking. I have seen guys tear some tape up pulling with a 6" and seen guys float the tape with a flexable 8".
> it's all in the understanding of how much pressure to apply to having the tape recessed like it should be. I also like to pull my excess mud that i pull out of from under the tape, back through the bevel as I continue wiping down. That way the tape is recessed and the bevel is full beside the tape.
> 
> Bill


If you are using the excess mud to FILL the bevel on the tape coat,, you are defeating the purpose. Tape shold be below the bevel, not even with it.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

D's said:


> I tried the Capt's trick on my last house too... 3.5 then a 2.5
> 
> On the plus side I didn't have to clean the blades on the second pass as often and there were hardly any scratches from debris. Noticed that it didn't gouge out joints that run into the corner as much either, which saved on touch ups.
> 
> Only bad thing I could say is that it may have taken slightly longer to dry.
> 
> Now that I've gotten the hang of my APLA setup I can't believe how easy corners are to do. I recommend it, at least while we're waiting to see what Rick comes out with.
> 
> On the sanding side... I tried another of Capt's tricks(can't believe he was right twice in a row) and used a Spear corner sander. I use burned out radius 360 discs, folded in half, and stuck to the corner sander. Sharpens them right up after a couple of passes making for an easier final sponge and light. Worked well and saved time on the stilts staring into corners.
> 
> Dare I ask how the Capt. picks his corners?
> 
> D'S


Was I right twice in a row ???? Well I guess even a BLIND hog finds an acorn every once in awhile. LOL

I don't have all the answers, heck i ain't got 1/2 the answers. 


But on picking,,, I find that if I let em set-up a bit, like do an entire floor before i pick, that the mud, being set-up abit, works way better and leaves a thicker coat than if I pick em immediatley. And when picking,, the more "set-up" the mud is, the better pick ya get.


----------



## Mudstar

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Was I right twice in a row ???? Well I guess even a BLIND hog finds an acorn every once in awhile. LOL
> 
> I don't have all the answers, heck i ain't got 1/2 the answers.
> 
> 
> But on picking,,, I find that if I let em set-up a bit, like do an entire floor before i pick, that the mud, being set-up abit, works way better and leaves a thicker coat than if I pick em immediatley. And when picking,, the more "set-up" the mud is, the better pick ya get.


That's what I do leave the 3 ways till after the angles are pumped in then jump on the stilts and wipe out the walls tight and coat the ceiling first time around


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thats like the guys that say its the "size of the wave, not the motion of the ocean" to which I always reply,,,,, "thats what all you needle-**** bug****ers say"
> 
> The knife you are using is EVERYTHING !!!!!!!


well ,I was going to state in my last post ,not to up set you.....
showed the kid that works with me your post on going ,8" box then 10"with out blinking a eye he said "yep that would work" ,2 tools on the market that could test your theory if anyone wanted .yes were a stubborn bunch ,especially the more experience you have, some on here are more teacher than student,some of us our just getting old and bored
But to state a 7" knife you purchased from 1972,that you fell in love with,and you CAN'T BUY NO MORE,were to modify our knife's to sevens ....come on
have you seen or tried the knifes that are only meant for wiping,the blue tempered long handle's yet???


----------



## proficient Mudder

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If you are using the excess mud to FILL the bevel on the tape coat,, you are defeating the purpose. Tape shold be below the bevel, not even with it.


The tape is pulled tight in the bevel and below the board surface, the excess mud that i pull over the tight tape is nothing but mud still in the recess but making a slicker tape job that will take a 1st coat from a box very clean.
I definetly think your 7" knife is a very good choice and with any professional like yourself it's great to have the experience to learn from.

Bill


----------



## 2buckcanuck

proficient Mudder said:


> The tape is pulled tight in the bevel and below the board surface, the excess mud that i pull over the tight tape is nothing but mud still in the recess but making a slicker tape job that will take a 1st coat from a box very clean.
> I definetly think your 7" knife is a very good choice and with any professional like yourself it's great to have the experience to learn from.
> 
> Bill


what your doing we call it back wiping your tape,I got one taping buddy who back wipes,goes 8" then 12" box.he did it for the same reasons as you,there would be less filling with his 8"box,so I tried it,what I found is.......
your sorta wiping the tape twice (going over it again) I just want to get r done
faster to fill with a box than by hand,so u use a bit more mud using boxes...still faster
your mud is too runny to make that big of a difference,shrinks more
and this is where I could be wrong,seems to make the tape swell out

maybe try a half wall back wiped then one half not ,(on same joint)see if you notice a difference


----------



## taper71

I use an 8" richard knife to wipe wall flats with. This knife is so well used that the blade is not straight across anymore, but worn to fit the bevel and lets me go for alot longer before the mud starts making a mess and I got to wipe it off on my pan. I tried a 7" wipe down knife for ceilings on a pole but I have to wipe the excess off to often ( Iam an impatient sort ) so I use an 8" ( I can go further before wiping the excess ). I have never had any major problems with the tape not sitting in the bevel, except when I cant run my bazooka in a straight line


----------



## proficient Mudder

2buckcanuck said:


> what your doing we call it back wiping your tape,I got one taping buddy who back wipes,goes 8" then 12" box.he did it for the same reasons as you,there would be less filling with his 8"box,so I tried it,what I found is.......
> your sorta wiping the tape twice (going over it again) I just want to get r done
> faster to fill with a box than by hand,so u use a bit more mud using boxes...still faster
> your mud is too runny to make that big of a difference,shrinks more
> and this is where I could be wrong,seems to make the tape swell out
> 
> maybe try a half wall back wiped then one half not ,(on same joint)see if you notice a difference


Oh yeah, I have tryed about every way possible I guess in 25 yrs of running a tape gun, I don't always make it a sure thing to back wipe as you call it, but do it most of the time with really no time loss. I personally have never seen it a tape swell from it, because it is always recessed in the bevels. I am not really going to any extra efforts and it's definetly no kind of coat over the tape, it's just leaving the mud at the side of the tape with the same amount of recess.

One thing that I have seen swell the tape out is where some finishers will use a mid weght or lite weight mud for taping. the shrinkage is less than regular joint compound leaving the tape just sitting on top of the mud that hasn't been pulled tight enough.

Bill


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

I guess I stirred up a hornets nest here,,, thats good, got to keep thinking and re-adjusting our attitudes.

I do NOT like seeing a "pretty" tape job,,,, by that i mean a bevel filled while the tape is wet. BECAUSE, the tape will FLOAT to the top of the mud bed and be even with the paper on the rock. Makes a pretty tape coat, but it sucks!!!!

A proper tape coat, looks like SH*T, cause the tape is down in the bevel and the mud is all over (cause it don't fill the bevel).

You can like that or not, you can hand tape or machine tape. In fact you can do whatever you want too. 

Since I'm old, wore out and about done, I like to share what I have learned since 1974,,,,,, PLEASE take it with however many grains of salt you want too. I am not trying to insult anyone, just trying to pass along somethings I have figured out.:thumbsup:


----------



## McDusty

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I do NOT like seeing a "pretty" tape job,,,, by that i mean a bevel filled while the tape is wet. BECAUSE, the tape will FLOAT to the top of the mud bed and be even with the paper on the rock. Makes a pretty tape coat, but it sucks!!!!
> 
> A proper tape coat, looks like SH*T, cause the tape is down in the bevel and the mud is all over (cause it don't fill the bevel).


i hope not everyone listens to this guys madness. my bevels are all full after tape, once they dry, they are hallow. perfect.


----------



## proficient Mudder

McDusty said:


> i hope not everyone listens to this guys madness. my bevels are all full after tape, once they dry, they are hallow. perfect.


Same here McDusty

I wasn't going to say anymore, being that I just jumped aboard on this site and having respect for someone that has been in this stuff longer than me. 

I think We all have to find what makes us feel comfortable with our routine and stick by it for personal satisfaction and job quality.

I deal with finishing thousands of board a year and most of it painted semi gloss. So my first step is to make sure the tape job is right for the rest of coats to go on smoothly and level.

Bill


----------



## taper71

Well im with Cap t on this one. I used to fill my bevels and it does look pretty, but I dont waste the time anymore . It all looks the same after the 10"box coat and no it does not shring back Hollow. I also noticed that if my mud consistency is just right it will look like I've filled the bevel , but it's not.


----------



## taper71

Oh and by the way I think we are way off topic and have been for the last few pages lol.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

McDusty said:


> i hope not everyone listens to this guys madness. my bevels are all full after tape, once they dry, they are hallow. perfect.


You can lead a finisher to auto tools, but you can't make em like em,,,if they'd rather still be hand-tapeing.

If you want to waste your time and mud by filling the bevel, then by all means, knock yourself out.


----------



## McDusty

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You can lead a finisher to auto tools, but you can't make em like em,,,if they'd rather still be hand-tapeing.
> 
> If you want to waste your time and mud by filling the bevel, then by all means, knock yourself out.


using the super-taper, the bevels get filled as i wipe out the flats, super taper puts a lot more mud on the tape than the bazooka. it's not like i waste my time going around filling all the bevels. that would be stupid. and what on earth are you talking about tapes floating to the top. that's bogus.


----------



## proficient Mudder

McDusty said:


> using the super-taper, the bevels get filled as i wipe out the flats, super taper puts a lot more mud on the tape than the bazooka. it's not like i waste my time going around filling all the bevels. that would be stupid. and what on earth are you talking about tapes floating to the top. that's bogus.


It would be stupid to go around and filling joints, that's what 1st coat is for. I also stated earlier that others may have missed, that I don't go to any special treatment other than taking my excess mud i pull from the tape and slap it right back into the joint instead of my pan at every swipe and drag with the tape as i am pulling it down. this probably is about equal to extra mud as the super taper, just enough.
if anyone has floating tape that is just sitting on top of mud,instead of recessed? than there probably using a mud that don't shrink and there not pulling the tape tight enough in the first place.

I know from reading other post of the people that has replyed to this post, that there experience is multi times proven they are professional. I just think certain taping explanations in this post have just been misunderstood without being in the field.

Bill


----------



## walleye

*tapetech angle heads*

hey guys, new to this site.

have been running tube/corner appl.- tape - corner roller - 2" flusher.
then after finish coat on flats tube again then 3" flusher. (can-am)

been doing this for years but not 100% happy w/ my angles, tend to come out too heavy w/ mud. after painted can see too heavy.

i have ordered the tapetech angle head combo 2 & 3". hoping to to tweak out to better satisfaction. i take pride in my work...most people dont notice but i do and it bothers me so here's hoping the new tools make an improvement.

planning on running the same system just substituting flushers w/ angle heads.

not sure if its a tool problem or i have somehow changed my ways over time.

one thing i think is different....i picked up the auto tools out in alberta back in the 90's and dont remember having the prob. but i think the bevels are wider here in the maritimes. flushers dont run good unless you apply lots of mud, modified my applicator with slightly bigger wheels. 


your thoughts on how i might fair out w/ the angle heads vs. flushers?


----------



## DSJOHN

MO the 2" is too small you should use 2 1/2or 3 first time and I think your using too much mud and coating too much in your angles----think glazing!!!!!


----------



## walleye

do you use flushers or angle heads?


----------



## walleye

maybe not thinning enough as well, afraid of cracking.

was considering hand finishing one side at a time after flushing(swore i would never go back to one side at a time).

need to get my **** together so that i walk away satisfied.

the tools aren't popular around here so no one to compare with.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

walleye
dsjohn gave right answer,just to add to it,don't adjust your wheels on applicator,make mud more runny,should be one pass to flush/glaze angles.your better off going 3 and 3 till you can get bigger flusher 3 1/2


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

McDusty said:


> using the super-taper, the bevels get filled as i wipe out the flats, super taper puts a lot more mud on the tape than the bazooka. it's not like i waste my time going around filling all the bevels. that would be stupid. and what on earth are you talking about tapes floating to the top. that's bogus.


I started on a slop-box in the 70's, went to a banjo early 80's,,, used it till 2001 when I wnet to a bazooka.

If you think that a super-taper(cool looking slop-box) is THE tool, then why are you here baashing the pros that use banjo's and bazooka's.

You don't have to like me or what I say, but PAHLEESE,,, don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.

Clear enough??? Sonny????


----------



## McDusty

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I started on a slop-box in the 70's, went to a banjo early 80's,,, used it till 2001 when I wnet to a bazooka.
> 
> If you think that a super-taper(cool looking slop-box) is THE tool, then why are you here baashing the pros that use banjo's and bazooka's.
> 
> You don't have to like me or what I say, but PAHLEESE,,, don't piss down my back and tell me its raining.
> 
> Clear enough??? Sonny????



I'd like to see you flat tape around the over 100 pipes & hangers on this commerical job i am on, with a bazooka. and then go use your bazooka to fire tape around ducting and in very small spaces where i can barely fit my hand. let me know how it goes.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

McDusty said:


> I'd like to see you flat tape around the over 100 pipes & hangers on this commerical job i am on, with a bazooka. and then go use your bazooka to fire tape around ducting and in very small spaces where i can barely fit my hand. let me know how it goes.


 why is someone going to use a piece work machine to do hour work to start with.that's like using a formula one race car in a monster truck competition.....NUTZ
but can I use the bazooka to fire tape......sure could.......but, you just have one guy put tension on the tape while holding bazooka up right , another person pulls on the tape directing it into a mud box .Oh my god...I just made a mud box.
I'm not going to knock a man who wants to use a slop bucket/super taper (lol)but if they say it's faster than a bazooka.....I will challenge them any day,even put my LIFE on the line.
here's the challenge,pick any house you want
tools to be used,a wiping knife,mud pan,angle head on a handle,roller optional .and of coarse bazooka or super taper lol
tools not to be used,milk crate,bench,scaffold,ladder,step ladder,baker,stilts,leg extension or height extenders of any form
just my machine against your .....lol,super taper machine
willing to bet your life on it!!!!!
just to warn any bidders ,27 years bazooka experience,3 years experience on the messy,back breaking,twice as much walking slop bucket/super taper lol


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

McDusty said:


> I'd like to see you flat tape around the over 100 pipes & hangers on this commerical job i am on, with a bazooka. and then go use your bazooka to fire tape around ducting and in very small spaces where i can barely fit my hand. let me know how it goes.


I use the banjo for fire tapes, have for years,thank ya.

I use the tool that fits the job the best,,, I am not locked into ONE tool, I want to be the finisher that makes the most money come friday, without any call-backs


----------



## PrairrieDogExpress

2buckcanuck said:


> why is someone going to use a piece work machine to do hour work to start with.that's like using a formula one race car in a monster truck competition.....NUTZ
> but can I use the bazooka to fire tape......sure could.......but, you just have one guy put tension on the tape while holding bazooka up right , another person pulls on the tape directing it into a mud box .Oh my god...I just made a mud box.
> I'm not going to knock a man who wants to use a slop bucket/super taper (lol)but if they say it's faster than a bazooka.....I will challenge them any day,even put my LIFE on the line.
> here's the challenge,pick any house you want
> tools to be used,a wiping knife,mud pan,angle head on a handle,roller optional .and of coarse bazooka or super taper lol
> tools not to be used,milk crate,bench,scaffold,ladder,step ladder,baker,stilts,leg extension or height extenders of any form
> just my machine against your .....lol,super taper machine
> willing to bet your life on it!!!!!
> just to warn any bidders ,27 years bazooka experience,3 years experience on the messy,back breaking,twice as much walking slop bucket/super taper lol


Of course it would be faster if you didn't use stilts. Why would you exclude them? I would love to take that bet. I'm not saying that I would definetly be faster but I guarantee that I would not be far behind. I think you would be suprised. :thumbsup:


----------



## McDusty

this thread is hilarious.

We, as in the people on this forum, need to start a DC, bid on an apartment block and hold the first ever 'Drywall Taping Championships.' Winner gets all the footage. That would be good times.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> Of course it would be faster if you didn't use stilts. Why would you exclude them? I would love to take that bet. I'm not saying that I would definetly be faster but I guarantee that I would not be far behind. I think you would be suprised. :thumbsup:


 ok bets on,it's your life,choose your form of execution
do you got a camera ,where you can post on you tube.you can wear your stilts,since you need those in combination to make your supertaper work lol.one man against the other,my A.D.H.D labourer who can fly like the wind if I piss him off, just to be fair,he's 28,how old are you
this is where Columbia should of been handing out prizes:whistling2:


----------



## PrairrieDogExpress

lol columbia should definetely be on board. I may actually get someone to videotape me if for no other reason than just to get the super taper the respect it deserves. To clarify...I only run the ST for flats, patch plugs, tight spots (linen closets ect) and angles shorter than 12". 

The issue I have with the bazooka is that it would be tough to do shorter tapes 12" and under, tight spots, and small patches. Also to get your tapes in 3 ways to be cut EXACT.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> lol columbia should definetely be on board. I may actually get someone to videotape me if for no other reason than just to get the super taper the respect it deserves. To clarify...I only run the ST for flats, patch plugs, tight spots (linen closets ect) and angles shorter than 12".
> 
> The issue I have with the bazooka is that it would be tough to do shorter tapes 12" and under, tight spots, and small patches. Also to get your tapes in 3 ways to be cut EXACT.


fellow Canuck,I don't think you have ever seen a true taper run a bazooka,a linen closet no big deal,tapes on in under one minute,a 2" tape is no big deal(the wheel on tube has TEETH) I started out on the super taper,you need stilts and a two man crew to make it kind of fast,a man by himself going at a ok pace will keep in time with you.the bazooka replaces a man which means more money for you.i will try to put up film later this month too
half to steal my daughters camera :whistling2:
feel free to jump in Columbia,what would you say the ratio in speed is in bazooka vs. super taper lol


----------



## PrairrieDogExpress

I look forward to seeing it:thumbsup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

here's a ok link of some guys running a Columbia bazooka 



the kid that works with me RUNS when he uses it,2 guys are chasing that machine,and every bazooka runner is going to say their faster than that guy (and more accurate i hope) and I would not call them liars ,still making my own vid


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a ok link of some guys running a Columbia bazooka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpljwt4syTw&feature=fvw
> the kid that works with me RUNS when he uses it,2 guys are chasing that machine,and every bazooka runner is going to say their faster than that guy (and more accurate i hope) and I would not call them liars ,still making my own vid


 
Well im not faster than him, my tube is a tape dragging turd sometimes, or maybe its just me?? I noticed his corner tapes dont move at all? good clip 2buck, thanks, even though this tread has gone off track from the angle heads but its all good.


----------



## McDusty

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a ok link of some guys running a Columbia bazooka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpljwt4syTw&feature=fvw
> the kid that works with me RUNS when he uses it,2 guys are chasing that machine,and every bazooka runner is going to say their faster than that guy (and more accurate i hope) and I would not call them liars ,still making my own vid



if you work alone, 100% of the time, you would still need to get up on stilts to wipe out those ceiling flats. unless you are using a long handle wipe down knife and that wouldn't make much difference because getting on/off stilts takes less than 1 minute. and that wipe down knife wouldn't do you much good on 10' ceiling. 

Another thing... i do 250ft of tape between trips to the super taper. 2 trips per 500ft roll. How many trips to the pump do you do on 500ft? It's a serious question, i wanna know.

there would have to be 2 divisions for the competition. a One Man division and a Team Division (2 person teams)

Online videos are a terrible representation of how the job actually looks. I don't put any stock in them what-so-ever.


----------



## Saul_Surfaces

that's a great video. If I made a tape of my bazooka use, I'd have to play it on fast forward to match that.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

McDusty said:


> if you work alone, 100% of the time, you would still need to get up on stilts to wipe out those ceiling flats. unless you are using a long handle wipe down knife and that wouldn't make much difference because getting on/off stilts takes less than 1 minute. and that wipe down knife wouldn't do you much good on 10' ceiling.
> 
> Another thing... i do 250ft of tape between trips to the super taper. 2 trips per 500ft roll. How many trips to the pump do you do on 500ft? It's a serious question, i wanna know.
> 
> there would have to be 2 divisions for the competition. a One Man division and a Team Division (2 person teams)
> 
> Online videos are a terrible representation of how the job actually looks. I don't put any stock in them what-so-ever.


Dusty, If you think that a ST is the fastest way to tape, then think so. 

I git tired of argueing about things that are commom knowledge.

A banjo is faster than a ST and a bazooka is faster than a banjo. 

Thats just a fact.

BTW, while we are at it, why don't we start a competition on whether a horse is faster than automobile?? Perhaps we can get a guy to go against a back-hoe with a shovel !!!


----------



## 2buckcanuck

I like to argue about it (but we should be starting new thread if we continue)
It's the super taper lol that gets set up in one area ,and you keep walking back to it,my set up is a pump in a bucket,I pick up my bucket and carry it.I don't use a goose neck,but takes 9 seconds to fill tube (9 pumps) guessing with goose neck 12 seconds
in Ontario stilts were banned for past 30 years ,made legal this year, so we became very good at getting things done with out them,wiping flat tape 16 foot high,no big deal,you get good with a wiping stick,only thing we MOSTLY use stilts on is ,1st coat screws,checking with light for sanding and doing garages
I use to use supertaper lol years ago .it's called ouch my back and oh no need a new roll of tape,and damn this bucket of 50 pound mud is heavy,I'll enter your contest,got to break it up into age groups too:jester:


----------



## PrairrieDogExpress

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Dusty, If you think that a ST is the fastest way to tape, then think so.
> 
> I git tired of argueing about things that are commom knowledge.
> 
> A banjo is faster than a ST and a bazooka is faster than a banjo.
> 
> Thats just a fact.
> 
> BTW, while we are at it, why don't we start a competition on whether a horse is faster than automobile?? Perhaps we can get a guy to go against a back-hoe with a shovel !!!


I use the ST as well. I am getting tired of this argument too because there is really no convincing each other of anything here, but by you comparing it to horse and buggy only tells me that 
A. You have never learned how to use it properly 
B. You have never seen anyone use it who is competent with it. 

You are more than welcome to express your opinion but when you make statements like that you loose any credibility. Sorry. 

All you have to say is that you think it is slower to use the ST. No need to go to extreems. Seems like all you're trying to do is piss people off. 

Either way you will be taping in a house in a day. What does it matter if you are done at 1 or done at 4 in the afternoon? Not using the bazooka or ST the rest of the way.


----------



## PrairrieDogExpress

2buckcanuck said:


> I like to argue about it (but we should be starting new thread if we continue)
> It's the super taper lol that gets set up in one area ,and you keep walking back to it,my set up is a pump in a bucket,I pick up my bucket and carry it.I don't use a goose neck,but takes 9 seconds to fill tube (9 pumps) guessing with goose neck 12 seconds
> in Ontario stilts were banned for past 30 years ,made legal this year, so we became very good at getting things done with out them,wiping flat tape 16 foot high,no big deal,you get good with a wiping stick,only thing we MOSTLY use stilts on is ,1st coat screws,checking with light for sanding and doing garages
> I use to use supertaper lol years ago .it's called ouch my back and oh no need a new roll of tape,and damn this bucket of 50 pound mud is heavy,I'll enter your contest,got to break it up into age groups too:jester:


Very good to hear that stilts are not banned anymore! I did a block in Fort Francis Ont. about 5 years ago and decided to work nights throughout the whole job just to avoid Mr Safety.


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I use the banjo for fire tapes, have for years,thank ya.
> 
> I use the tool that fits the job the best,,, I am not locked into ONE tool, I want to be the finisher that makes the most money come friday, without any call-backs


That's where I'm at, including using a banjo for fire taping, and for smaller or sporadic taping on a job. I just wrap it in a bag till needed again, and only clean it once in awhile. Found it quick and handy.

I did own a ST for a bit, but sold it, opting instead pretty much for a banjo/bazooka combination (although tomorrow I'm thinking to use a tube and flat applicator for a couple conference rooms with 10' standups - got to find something to try out my new 42" Columbia tube on).

I never did give it some time to get good with the ST. One reason is that wearing stilts around many of the commercial jobs I've mostly been on can be a bit risky - things laying all over the place at times. So it didn't seem as well suited to my situation as some other options.

Excluding the sped up video pace, don't know if some of the ST users here are this good, but a BTE Youtube video comparing their ST against a bazooka, starting at the 2:10 mark: 



 
The area they said they did their time test in did seem a little limited and confining to really show a bazooka's potential, though. Don't know how good the bazooka operator was, either.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

one they are saying the better than ever system dose not need a roller,and you dont need to clean out your 3 ways
or say you ran the can am heads with the bazooka,there fore not needing a roller nor clean out 3 ways now who wins.
plus the camera speed ,one walking ,one racing ,who knows.
plus if you went ,who can lay the tape 1st,not wipe,roll etc.
to me it's
bazooka
then a battle between banjo ,super taper (lol) edge I think super taper (lol) never ran a banjo
compound tube and it's applicators
then by hand
that would be the order to me
but bottom line ,bazooka the cleanest too ,your should be able to run one in a 3 piece suit,and come out clean if your good


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> I use the ST as well. I am getting tired of this argument too because there is really no convincing each other of anything here, but by you comparing it to horse and buggy only tells me that
> A. You have never learned how to use it properly
> B. You have never seen anyone use it who is competent with it.
> 
> You are more than welcome to express your opinion but when you make statements like that you loose any credibility. Sorry.
> 
> All you have to say is that you think it is slower to use the ST. No need to go to extreems. Seems like all you're trying to do is piss people off.
> 
> Either way you will be taping in a house in a day. What does it matter if you are done at 1 or done at 4 in the afternoon? Not using the bazooka or ST the rest of the way.


You assume that I don't know how to use a ST. You also assume that I have never seen anyone run one that is good with it.

I doubt that I lose credibility by simply stateing the truth. I will repeat

A Super-taper or anyother type of slop-box is not nor will it ever be as fast, neat, or proficient as a banjo, must less a bazooka.

Thats why I used the horse and buggy comparison. Its just a fact


----------



## Mudstar

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You assume that I don't know how to use a ST. You also assume that I have never seen anyone run one that is good with it.
> 
> I doubt that I lose credibility by simply stateing the truth. I will repeat
> 
> A Super-taper or anyother type of slop-box is not nor will it ever be as fast, neat, or proficient as a banjo, must less a bazooka.
> 
> Thats why I used the horse and buggy comparison. Its just a fact


totally agreed 

no brain er


----------



## croozer

*Great Idea*



McDusty said:


> this thread is hilarious.
> 
> We, as in the people on this forum, need to start a DC, bid on an apartment block and hold the first ever 'Drywall Taping Championships.' Winner gets all the footage. That would be good times.


 :thumbup:Better yet,first 15 place getters get to form drywall super company, on call worldwide , like drywall mercinaries...anyjob for the right price...:yes::blink:irate:


----------



## proficient Mudder

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You assume that I don't know how to use a ST. You also assume that I have never seen anyone run one that is good with it.
> 
> I doubt that I lose credibility by simply stateing the truth. I will repeat
> 
> A Super-taper or anyother type of slop-box is not nor will it ever be as fast, neat, or proficient as a banjo, must less a bazooka.
> 
> Thats why I used the horse and buggy comparison. Its just a fact


 
I definetly agree, not taking away from the speeds of some on a banjo or other, because in there class is some extremly fast and talanted tapers out there, that could not hold up to them.

But a Bazooka is the fastest and cleanest way of taping. One of my best finishers was well known for being very quick with a banjo, he even wanted to challange me when we first met, which was good because now i have a very fast wipe down person behind me after he realized the bazooka was the quickest way. 
We taped 800 boards in 6 hours last week with a 3 man crew. this was a commercial job with standup board, so not comparing to a house, but it was alot of small offices with no big open areas.
in a house on the average, I can tape about 100 boards per hour including flats and angles. This is now at 25 yrs of finishing, so my prime is long past.
There are alot of faster bazooka tapers out there, but in 25 yrs I have never heard or seen any other ways faster.

Bill


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

I find that when you say things like this, the operators of the other systems think you are attacking them personally.

It is not about that at all,,, some systems are faster than others, regardless of how good you are at em.


----------



## proficient Mudder

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I find that when you say things like this, the operators of the other systems think you are attacking them personally.
> 
> It is not about that at all,,, some systems are faster than others, regardless of how good you are at em.


Being we are talking about speed, it's just like drag racing, there are certain classes for certain modifications or upgrades.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a ok link of some guys running a Columbia bazooka http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpljwt4syTw&feature=fvw
> the kid that works with me RUNS when he uses it,2 guys are chasing that machine,and every bazooka runner is going to say their faster than that guy (and more accurate i hope) and I would not call them liars ,still making my own vid


Thats a cool video and one that anyone that thinks hand finishing or anyother type of tool is faster should watch,,,,,,

However, as Col would attest to,,, Col tools are silver and blue,,, not northstar green,,,,

Just saying ya know


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

proficient Mudder said:


> Being we are talking about speed, it's just like drag racing, there are certain classes for certain modifications or upgrades.


Agreed, 100%. You cannot race a ST against a bazooka anymore than you can race model T against a rail. They are just not in the same class


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thats a cool video and one that anyone that thinks hand finishing or anyother type of tool is faster should watch,,,,,,
> 
> However, as Col would attest to,,, Col tools are silver and blue,,, not northstar green,,,,
> 
> Just saying ya know


was not even paying attention to type of tube they were using,had to watch it again,yep north star,but they have two in video at the start,one in the back ground.Did Columbia not make black ones at one time,We picked up 2 tubes one year ago for free,(long story) Both black,thought they were Columbia,then read the plate cover one month ago,drywall master,(maybe plate cove changed ?????) exact clone of my tape tec though,so whats the one in the back ground then ,looks black


----------



## proficient Mudder

2buckcanuck said:


> was not even paying attention to type of tube they were using,had to watch it again,yep north star,but they have two in video at the start,one in the back ground.Did Columbia not make black ones at one time,We picked up 2 tubes one year ago for free,(long story) Both black,thought they were Columbia,then read the plate cover one month ago,drywall master,(maybe plate cove changed ?????) exact clone of my tape tec though,so whats the one in the back ground then ,looks black


Could be drywall master or Ames. I have never seen a Columbia Bazooka that wasn't just silver, silver with a black slide or with the silver and blue. Tapetech has always been gold that i can remember but with several different colors on the slide.

Bill


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> was not even paying attention to type of tube they were using,had to watch it again,yep north star,but they have two in video at the start,one in the back ground.Did Columbia not make black ones at one time,We picked up 2 tubes one year ago for free,(long story) Both black,thought they were Columbia,then read the plate cover one month ago,drywall master,(maybe plate cove changed ?????) exact clone of my tape tec though,so whats the one in the back ground then ,looks black


I believe the other one was a DM tube.

I have a Col tube and a DM tube.

And yes , 90% of ALL taper parts are interchangeable.


----------



## white mexican

New member, long time browser. This thread is more entertaining than talk radio. Had to give my 2 cents worth. Capt is so right. MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY! But seriously everyone has their own way of doing things. 
My way-
bazooka or banjo as the mood hits me
2.5 flusher followed by 3.5 on the mudrunner
no edges to speak of- minimal sanding
works for me
:thumbsup:


----------



## Mudstar

white mexican said:


> Had to give my 2 cents worth.
> :thumbsup:


hope your not working for what a mexi is ******


----------



## Mudshark

2buckcanuck said:


> was not even paying attention to type of tube they were using,had to watch it again,yep north star,but they have two in video at the start,one in the back ground.Did Columbia not make black ones at one time,We picked up 2 tubes one year ago for free,(long story) Both black,thought they were Columbia,then read the plate cover one month ago,drywall master,(maybe plate cove changed ?????) exact clone of my tape tec though,so whats the one in the back ground then ,looks black


Just watched the VID and think it may be a Columbia. I have an older Columbia Bazooka (at least the plate on the head says so) and IT IS BLACK. Now I am wondering how old it really is and when Columbia stopped making their early black version.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Gee, and now I found a vid of a guy using a wipe down knife on a pole,,, (since this thread had been re-hashed) Yes being on the stilts is faster, and if a 2 man crew. But when you worked in a province where the stilts were band for a long time, it became a effective system. Good system for a lone operator too.:yes:

But the guy should use a wider knife IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=SAsIjwfb2-8


----------



## saskataper

I just picked up a wipe down knife made by ProFinish that has a 24" handle that you can get extensions for in 24" lengths and it has a pivoting head. Worked pretty good for 9' although I'm 6'2" so for anybody much shorter it would be tough. They make a few different knockdown knives as well.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

I use a paint shield holder. Its hard plastic and it swivels. If you drill the rivets out of any drywall knife,,, the screws and wing nuts that hold the paint shield, will hold the blade from the knife. It will fit any paint pole. I have one with an 8" knife on it, one with a 10" knife on it, and one with a 12" knife on it. Total cost,,,, around 60 bucks(including the knives),,not counting the paint pole.

I call it the "Johny 2" cause I figured it out when "Johnny 1" kept laying out and I had to do it by myself


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I use a paint shield holder. Its hard plastic and it swivels. If you drill the rivets out of any drywall knife,,, the screws and wing nuts that hold the paint shield, will hold the blade from the knife. It will fit any paint pole. I have one with an 8" knife on it, one with a 10" knife on it, and one with a 12" knife on it. Total cost,,,, around 60 bucks(including the knives),,not counting the paint pole.
> 
> I call it the "Johny 2" cause I figured it out when "Johnny 1" kept laying out and I had to do it by myself


I remember you talking about that before, can you take a picture of it and post it. Preferably when your not drinking, that way the picture will be in focus........... I know,,,, I could be waiting for awhile:whistling2:

Sounds Like you could cover/gain more distance with your set up,,,,, right


----------



## Drywall_King

In canada I used a 3" and a 3 1/2 finishing reasons are first coat is flushing with taping mudd harder to sand and by covering everything with a nice columbia head 3 1/2 it makes sanding better and smoother... plus the real secret to making nice angles is to spend the extra time skim the edges of your angle heads mudd with a 6 inch knife in long strokes kinda like coating a screw in rows but longer... longer the better and wiping it clean feathers it out better and makes sanding a dream... also cancels out those spots where your mechanical head cuts a line through your flats and butts.... Cheers


----------



## D's

I second that King. 3" tin for 1st pass, followed by a 3.5" head, and a quick swipe both sides with a 6" knife before the final coat. What you spend on the last step you save with an easy sand, less touch-ups, and a perfect finish.

I experimented on my last job using a 3" spotter to do the sides of the angles instead of a 6" knife. Did everything off the floor with the spotter on a pole and then hopped up on stilts and ran the top of the wall just holding the spotter in my hand. Same great result in half the time.


----------



## moore

sounds like lots of work.. may as well run them by hand..:blink:[smart ass]


----------



## D's

Moore - I'm sending you some free angle heads to prove my point.


----------



## VANMAN

Capt-sheetrock said:


> One of the hardest things, if not THE hardest thing about going from hand finishing to tools, is realizing that some things will be done differantly. Lord knows we are a hard-headed bunch that just hates change in any shape form or fashion.
> 
> One reason for running bigger than smaller angleheads is that by doing so, you don't pick up the trash from the edge that will build up on your head and make grooves in your finish coat. Anything that reduces trash in a tool is a good thing,,,NO ?????.
> 
> About picking corners,,, I guess I do like everyone else does. I use a 5" to pick with, mainly cause I don't own a 6. If you have a 5, you don't need a 4 and a 6. I used to run hand finish corners with a 4, but since I got tools, I quit carring them. I wipe tape with a 7" (old wallboard) they quit making em in 1976, so they are hard to come by, but you can buy an 8" and cut the blade down to 7" with a set of snips. The reason is this, a 6 will leave too much mud running off the edges of the knife and an 8 will span the bevel too far and leave the tape "proud" meaning you will have to "bust-out" many places after the bed coat cause your tapes to high. The size of the knife on wiping tape is really THAT important. Just try it, you can buy a stainless 8 at Blowes for around 8 bucks, what have got to loose, cept some old out of date pre-conceptions.
> 
> Heck, I'd bet 8 bucks on an elephant race.:thumbsup:


 I,m with u here lad why dont they make a 7 knife?????? Our window ingos r 6 wide nowadays and a 6 just doesnt make it when u get a bead on there:furious: I am not really a fan of knives as a trowel man but a 7 would b the perfect solution for my ingos:thumbup: Window returns for u guys!!:whistling2:By the way dont like an eight for them either!


----------



## Bazookaguy

Drywall_King said:


> In canada I used a 3" and a 3 1/2 finishing reasons are first coat is flushing with taping mudd harder to sand and by covering everything with a nice columbia head 3 1/2 it makes sanding better and smoother... plus the real secret to making nice angles is to spend the extra time skim the edges of your angle heads mudd with a 6 inch knife in long strokes kinda like coating a screw in rows but longer... longer the better and wiping it clean feathers it out better and makes sanding a dream... also cancels out those spots where your mechanical head cuts a line through your flats and butts.... Cheers


The reason a 3-2 combo works the best is, an edge on top of mud sands easier than an edge on bare sheetrock will. When Im taping angles, I have two guys running behind me, rolling & plowing and who ever is rolling, follows the guy plowing to burn off the edges that the 3" angle head will almost always leave behind. while the guy whos plowing will run through and wipe in the bottoms. then depending on how hot it is, Ill stop taping and we all will go back through and wipe in the stars.

when I finish my angles with the 2" head, im basically glazing the angles on the inside of the angle from what the 3 left behind after taping. I use some real creamy mud to finish the angles with, and just watch out for scratches from the bottom of the angles. and they seem to turn out sweet. 

The larger the angle head means the more mud you are putting on the walls. meaning , the more mud your using to coat your angles with, has greater chance of leaving a double edge on your walls. its kind of hard to explain it on here. you would have to see it for yourself on a job w/ me to show you what im trying to say.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

VANMAN said:


> I,m with u here lad why dont they make a 7 knife?????? Our window ingos r 6 wide nowadays and a 6 just doesnt make it when u get a bead on there:furious: I am not really a fan of knives as a trowel man but a 7 would b the perfect solution for my ingos:thumbup: Window returns for u guys!!:whistling2:By the way dont like an eight for them either!



sitting down for lunch one day talking tape. I know I know that's a first, one kid looks at me and asks why I have a 7 knife? and after I explained he said soooo that's what that is for and yes the rubber was burning:yes:


----------



## chris

Bazookaguy said:


> The reason a 3-2 combo works the best is, an edge on top of mud sands easier than an edge on bare sheetrock will. When Im taping angles, I have two guys running behind me, rolling & plowing and who ever is rolling, follows the guy plowing to burn off the edges that the 3" angle head will almost always leave behind. while the guy whos plowing will run through and wipe in the bottoms. then depending on how hot it is, Ill stop taping and we all will go back through and wipe in the stars.
> 
> when I finish my angles with the 2" head, im basically glazing the angles on the inside of the angle from what the 3 left behind after taping. I use some real creamy mud to finish the angles with, and just watch out for scratches from the bottom of the angles. and they seem to turn out sweet.
> 
> The larger the angle head means the more mud you are putting on the walls. meaning , the more mud your using to coat your angles with, has greater chance of leaving a double edge on your walls. its kind of hard to explain it on here. you would have to see it for yourself on a job w/ me to show you what im trying to say.


 I can see what you are explaining and am sure it works best for going behind a bazooka beings a bazooka kicks out a ton more mud than a banjo and the bigger head would help wipe in. Me using banjo the smaller / bigger combo works best beings I can tighten up the mudflow to get more footage of tape up, then wipe with small head and no cleanup of extra mud needed (clean) . Then box with a 3 and have minimal cut in on edges. Do you have problems with the small head cuttin into the mudedge on 1rst pass?


----------



## Bazookaguy

chris said:


> I can see what you are explaining and am sure it works best for going behind a bazooka beings a bazooka kicks out a ton more mud than a banjo and the bigger head would help wipe in. Me using banjo the smaller / bigger combo works best beings I can tighten up the mudflow to get more footage of tape up, then wipe with small head and no cleanup of extra mud needed (clean) . Then box with a 3 and have minimal cut in on edges. Do you have problems with the small head cuttin into the mudedge on 1rst pass?


well some tapers use a 3-3 combo w/ taping and finishing their angles, mainly b/c they dont have a smaller head to finish with. they only have a 3. what I was trying to say is, using a double 3 combo creates a lot of unneeded mud in your angles. the only time I use a 3 is for taping. then use the 2 inside of what the 3 does after taping to just put a thin glaze on my angles. if the 2 leaves any kind of edge at all its easier to sand on the inside than an edge on the outside of the path that the 3 made. I know its confusing b/c its the only part of finishing that you dont cover your edges with mud. 
and no I dont have problem w/ the 2 cutting my angles up. if your experiencing that then your angle head needs to be adjusted. or the angles are really crooked and you would be better off finishing them by hand.
all the auto tools leave edges to certain extent, you need to do a lot of hand knifing to make it easier to sand. hope that explained it a little more.:thumbsup:


----------



## cazna

NO edge ridges at all with a tapeworm 4 on a mud runner, Even feeling them with you fingers is great, very very fine edged, almost just a stain on the board.


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> NO edge ridges at all with a tapeworm 4 on a mud runner, Even feeling them with you fingers is great, very very fine edged, almost just a stain on the board.


I'M sold ...that's what I'm getting....:yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> I'M sold ...that's what I'm getting....:yes:


Your not listening to cazna again are you Moore:glare::whistling2:


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Your not listening to cazna again are you Moore:glare::whistling2:


IT sounds like [i have seen the vids] and looks like the closest thing to my hand finish,, I WANT a angle head that will give me 4'' on each side.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> IT sounds like [i have seen the vids] and looks like the closest thing to my hand finish,, I WANT a angle head that will give me 4'' on each side.


Nail spot the edge of your angles, or buy a nail spotter and run it down the sides of the angles.

Just think how happy and proud your wife will be if you buy more tools:thumbup:


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Nail spot the edge of your angles, or buy a nail spotter and run it down the sides of the angles.


WHY, You dont need too, I wanted a head with 4 inches a side to fix all corner problems and corner tool problems, Why oh Why would you autotool a corner, Then hand wipe the edges?? or run a spotter, How do you run a spotter on the wall edge?? Crazy, Yes the 4inch head is not as fast, But its perfect, And there is enough mud cover to sand it without blowing tapes, IT.........JUST...........WORKS. 4 inch head on a runner, Either finish with it, Or do it behind the roller then 2 inch finish it, Corner picking is so easy its almost cheating that way, Trust me moore, SR drywall couldnt get it it work couse he didnt have a runner.


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> why, you dont need too, i wanted a head with 4 inches a side to fix all corner problems and corner tool problems, why oh why would you autotool a corner, then hand wipe the edges?? Or run a spotter, how do you run a spotter on the wall edge?? Crazy, yes the 4inch head is not as fast, but its perfect, and there is enough mud cover to sand it without blowing tapes, it.........just...........works. 4 inch head on a runner, either finish with it, or do it behind the roller then 2 inch finish it, corner picking is so easy its almost cheating that way, trust me moore, sr drywall couldnt get it it work couse he didnt have a runner.


because


----------



## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> WHY, You dont need too, I wanted a head with 4 inches a side to fix all corner problems and corner tool problems, Why oh Why would you autotool a corner, Then hand wipe the edges?? or run a spotter, How do you run a spotter on the wall edge?? Crazy, Yes the 4inch head is not as fast, But its perfect, And there is enough mud cover to sand it without blowing tapes, IT.........JUST...........WORKS. 4 inch head on a runner, Either finish with it, Or do it behind the roller then 2 inch finish it, Corner picking is so easy its almost cheating that way, Trust me moore, SR drywall couldnt get it it work couse he didnt have a runner.


because Moore is a true blue hand taper:thumbup:

It's going to take him awhile to have faith in the tools. So there's no sense piling moore tools on him. He's going to post pics of his work, and say that he had to touch into them (angles). So let him..... not that we can tell him what to do but.......

Remember when you 1st went to the machines

Moore has a reputation to up hold with his customers, he has a good name, and he's going to want to keep it. So in my own stupid way, I'm saying to him to keep doing some things by hand. Once he has more faith in the machines, and his clients still trust his change in style will still produce good work. Then we can feed him moore drywall talk.

Till then, slow and steady wins the race when integrating machines into his system.

So here's to your 4" flusher head







Cazna the clean:jester:


----------



## moore

i'll post a vid tomorrow of my boxing seams .. should be a good laugh...


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Remember when you 1st went to the machines
> 
> 
> So here's to your 4" flusher head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cazna the clean:jester:


 
Yeah, I jumped on DWT and screamed, HELP, WTF, PANIC, SOS, How do i run this stuff, Its all turning to chit on me, OMG Ive spent a fortune and its all junk, Im the man hand taper, Thats the only way?? Well something like that anyway, I just brought everything till something sunk in, We all different moore and like to do things that suit ourselves and conditions, So listen to everyone but only take my advice (Insert symbol of hand on d!ck here)

Did your little symbol man just drop a fart on my beloved tapeworm angle head :blink: How dare he........2Buckjnr, Throw some more of 2bucks advance knifes in the portaloo for me would ya :yes:


----------



## chris

moore said:


> i'll post a vid tomorrow of my boxing seams .. should be a good laugh...


 If the rock has a bad bevel a bigger head wont fix that,you will end up using more mud and muscle to pump angle and you will more than likely have a fatass edge to sand afterwards. Honestly,never have used a 4" head for more than 12 feet:blink: it ran out of mud in 12 feet so I didnt bother to use again.I would get a 2 for tapin and 3 for boxin. Have never used tins or flushers but strongly feel that is a cheaper/easier way to finish as opposed to traditinal method. Angles are much sharper with angleboxes and heads...thats why they cost so much $$


----------



## Mudstar

is this thread on boxes tapers or hand taping?

its got to be the drug.................:blink:


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Just think how happy and proud your wife will be if you buy more tools:thumbup:


I got in trouble yesterday. Tools.  At least it's not drugs or women.......right?


----------



## chris

SlimPickins said:


> I got in trouble yesterday. Tools.  At least it's not drugs or women.......right?


 correct. Im waiting til Friday to do some tool shopping. If you are anticipating a tool purchase now is the time (deductions). What u get?


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

tapingfool said:


> THis hand taper fella came to my job the other day, and refused to coat angles run by the roller and glazer, he said you have to go over it twice, So he walked off the job, as I was running the corners with the three..and got paid whilst he was home...


fuk who needs a nob like that around, good thing ya never flung your 5 inch blade at him and might have killed him and did big time...:detective:

Smart let him suffer at home being a Gumby:tt2:

To add I woulda been happy that retred left


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

2buckcanuck said:


> Nail spot the edge of your angles, or buy a nail spotter and run it down the sides of the angles.
> 
> Just think how happy and proud your wife will be if you buy more tools:thumbup:




so 2buck what5s yer beef with Tape Tech?


----------



## SlimPickins

chris said:


> correct. Im waiting til Friday to do some tool shopping. If you are anticipating a tool purchase now is the time (deductions). What u get?


I got one of these, and one of these. Plus a bunch of accessories for the first...The first pic is part of a whole system, I can use my track saw and my router with the guide. It's kinda like a portable cabinet shop:thumbsup: The second is for beam work.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

SlimPickins said:


> I got one of these, and one of these. Plus a bunch of accessories for the first...The first pic is part of a whole system, I can use my track saw and my router with the guide. It's kinda like a portable cabinet shop:thumbsup: The second is for beam work.


Kool looking tools, but I can't figure out how their gonna help you cut the "hard edge" off of them inside corners!!!! LOL


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

cazna said:


> Yeah, I jumped on DWT and screamed, HELP, WTF, PANIC, SOS, How do i run this stuff, Its all turning to chit on me, OMG Ive spent a fortune and its all junk, Im the man hand taper, Thats the only way?? Well something like that anyway, I just brought everything till something sunk in, We all different moore and like to do things that suit ourselves and conditions, So listen to everyone but only take my advice (Insert symbol of hand on d!ck here)
> 
> Did your little symbol man just drop a fart on my beloved tapeworm angle head :blink: How dare he........2Buckjnr, Throw some more of 2bucks advance knifes in the portaloo for me would ya :yes:


Having a talk t'day bout different tools, Well Emperor Cazna I got ta give you credit cause every tool works somewhere, like pole to flusher angle and the corner box for halls and run like a deer, or was that mare... oh yeah faster than a mare


----------



## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Kool looking tools, but I can't figure out how their gonna help you cut the "hard edge" off of them inside corners!!!! LOL


Ha! I don't have hard edges, I'm a hand finisher, remember? :lol: Maybe if I quit buying woodworking tools and threw down for a tape set I could get me some hard edges :laughing: (or at least some more money for the tools I like using best)


----------



## moore

Quote:


----------



## chris

SlimPickins said:


> I got one of these, and one of these. Plus a bunch of accessories for the first...The first pic is part of a whole system, I can use my track saw and my router with the guide. It's kinda like a portable cabinet shop:thumbsup: The second is for beam work.


 I like that table:yes:


----------



## SlimPickins

chris said:


> I like that table:yes:


Dude....it's AWESOME. There are so many gadgets and gizmos you can attach to it to make it do virtually anything you want. I thought about getting a less tricked out version for hanging, but then I realized.....I don't need one for that. It would be sweet for when piecing in came along, but it's a big item to have to haul around for just that, when my drywall bench does the trick.


----------



## gazman

moore said:


> IT sounds like [i have seen the vids] and looks like the closest thing to my hand finish,, I WANT a angle head that will give me 4'' on each side.



Here you go Moore. This is what a 4" tapeworm can do on a Mudrunner. And I still have my L plates on.


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## cazna

gazman said:


> Here you go Moore. This is what a 4" tapeworm can do on a Mudrunner. And I still have my L plates on.


Oh Yeah, Thats what im talking about, Perfection right there boys :yes: mud so smooth and edges so fine you can barely feel them with your fingers, Thats drywall poetry, Autotools at there finest :thumbsup: Dream away, NOTHING else will give you quaility as high as that. If you held 10 inch blade in there you would be surprised just how flat it is.

I have the goldblatt G2 4 inch angle head on its way, The DWT discount from all wall made it worth it, Thanks all wall, That heads side blades are the same as its top blades so it must be the biggest head on the market, If it runs as sweet as my 2 and 3.75 goldblatts, then :thumbsup:


----------



## moore

cazna said:


> Oh Yeah, Thats what im talking about, Perfection right there boys :yes: mud so smooth and edges so fine you can barely feel them with your fingers, Thats drywall poetry, Autotools at there finest :thumbsup: Dream away, NOTHING else will give you quaility as high as that. If you held 10 inch blade in there you would be surprised just how flat it is.
> 
> I have the goldblatt G2 4 inch angle head on its way, The DWT discount from all wall made it worth it, Thanks all wall, That heads side blades are the same as its top blades so it must be the biggest head on the market, If it runs as sweet as my 2 and 3.75 goldblatts, then :thumbsup:


Oh ..I so have a comeback for this..But I will refrain.


----------



## chris

gotta show off my Tapetech 3"


----------



## croozer

those angles look good caz. my 3 coated ones finished with the 3.5 columbia heads on the 8inch box do the same job...beautiful...was going to get a mudrunner, but cant fault the angle box..doing a lot of square stopped houses now so plenty of practice..also got the tape pro cornice heads and a syringe, work great


----------



## cazna

croozer said:


> those angles look good caz. my 3 coated ones finished with the 3.5 columbia heads on the 8inch box do the same job...beautiful...was going to get a mudrunner, but cant fault the angle box..doing a lot of square stopped houses now so plenty of practice..also got the tape pro cornice heads and a syringe, work great


That sounds great croozer, Different tools and methods suit different people, If your getting the results then :thumbsup: I see aaron once posted that there 3.5 is actually 3.6, So thats a good size head and columbias great gear. Cool on the cornice heads and syringe, Handy arnt they, An external mudhead for corners is another great tool.


----------



## VANMAN

Capt-sheetrock said:


> No No No, 3 1/2 for tape and 2 1/2 for finish coat.
> 
> We are not hand finishing,, the bigger head first followed by a smaller head. If you feel that you need to go bigger on every coat, why are you not still hand finishing???
> 
> Next ,,,,,,


 Well Capt i tried ur way on my last house but used a 3 then 2.5!!
Man that def is the best way of doing corners the runner goes for miles with the 2.5 head and is fast:thumbup: 1.5 hours 2 do a 230sqm house with a lot of corners:thumbsup: Compared with finishing with a 3.5 its very fast and u can run thicker mud,I will b sticking 2 this method:thumbsup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

VANMAN said:


> Well Capt i tried ur way on my last house but used a 3 then 2.5!!
> Man that def is the best way of doing corners the runner goes for miles with the 2.5 head and is fast:thumbup: 1.5 hours 2 do a 230sqm house with a lot of corners:thumbsup: Compared with finishing with a 3.5 its very fast and u can run thicker mud,I will b sticking 2 this method:thumbsup:


 Hey Moore,,,did ya catch that,,,,1.5 hours to second coat the angles?????

Hard to beat them tools,,,ain't it????

Iknow,Iknow,,,, your getting there,,,just prodding ya abit !!!!:yes:


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## cazna

Second coat with my 2 inch goldblatt on top of the 4 tapeworm is crazy fast, And great corner picking, Only about 15mm, So much easier than trying to pick a bigger head for finish coat, Cheers from me as well Capt :drink:


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## Capt-sheetrock

Dern,,, you guys are gonna drive me to drink,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, MORE !!!!:thumbup:


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## chris

may have to give that method a shot. We have popped on little head to do between steel frame doors and skinnier angles near openings and thought it did a decent job but that was little over little. Will have to try and see


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## Kiwiman

I've tried 3.5" then 2.5" (on a box) and I get a groove down the outside edge, I wish it didn't because I would rather do it that way if I could. Maybe the northstar springs are too tight or mud not runny enough?


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Hey Moore,,,did ya catch that,,,,1.5 hours to second coat the angles?????
> 
> Hard to beat them tools,,,ain't it????
> 
> Iknow,Iknow,,,, your getting there,,,just prodding ya abit !!!!:yes:


your a trip without a suitcase Capt!!! the wife want's to go to Okanoke Island this summer .
I told her ..drop me off at the captains house ,and pick me up on ya way back!!


----------



## cazna

Kiwiman said:


> I've tried 3.5" then 2.5" (on a box) and I get a groove down the outside edge, I wish it didn't because I would rather do it that way if I could. Maybe the northstar springs are too tight or mud not runny enough?


Just bend the springs a little so the angles dont need so much of a push, If they are then to soft just bend em back, Or if they have two springs take one off, I do this to suit what i want, But i dont see this method of bigger then smaller working out unless you have a runner.


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## SlimPickins

cazna said:


> Just bend the springs a little so the angles dont need so much of a push, If they are then to soft just bend em back, Or if they have two springs take one off, I do this to suit what i want, But i dont see this method of bigger then smaller working out unless you have a runner.


We used to do this method back in the day, 3" for taping, 2" for skim. It's pretty clean and fast, but not good enough for smooth wall finishes. I bet it would work better with the 2.5" on the skim.

The guy I help out occasionally just does double 3"..........YUCK. What a mess. You can't pick corners forever because of the mess he leaves up there.


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## VANMAN

Kiwiman said:


> I've tried 3.5" then 2.5" (on a box) and I get a groove down the outside edge, I wish it didn't because I would rather do it that way if I could. Maybe the northstar springs are too tight or mud not runny enough?


 Yea i can c that going on using a box as ur pushing on it pretty hard 2 get the mud out!! With the runner it just flows very nice so not so much pushing just setting the head into the corner and if u need more in the corner ease of a bit :thumbup:


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## cazna

SlimPickins said:


> I bet it would work better with the 2.5" on the skim.


 
It dosnt, My 2 inch goldblatt is tidier and cleaner than my 2.5 Dm, The 2 is enoungh for tape cover, It leaves tighter mud and less corner picking with no ridges or grooves, I have never had to adjust the goldblatt, Cant say the same for the DM.


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## SlimPickins

cazna said:


> It dosnt, My 2 inch goldblatt is tidier and cleaner than my 2.5 Dm, The 2 is enoungh for tape cover, It leaves tighter mud and less corner picking with no ridges or grooves, I have never had to adjust the goldblatt, Cant say the same for the DM.


I was thinking though, that the 2.5 would do a better job of filling the recess....(but you would know better than I, because I've never tried it). That always seemed to be the problem with the 3"->2" method. For smooth and light orange peel jobs we were sliding every angle that had a bevel.


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## Capt-sheetrock

I'd like to take this oppurtunity to say,,,,,

If your smaller head is leaving a "groove" in your first coat,,,, you either,,,

1) need to adjust your smaller head(its springs are too tight)
2) your using lightwieght mud

Thanks for letting me share


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## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> your a trip without a suitcase Capt!!! the wife want's to go to Okanoke Island this summer .
> I told her ..drop me off at the captains house ,and pick me up on ya way back!!


 Ifin you do go,,,, ya got to drive right by here,,,, at least stop and let me and the sweetie take you guys out to dinner!!!!!!!

I promise not to say anything stupid,,,,LOL:thumbup:


----------



## cazna

SlimPickins said:


> I was thinking though, that the 2.5 would do a better job of filling the recess....(but you would know better than I, because I've never tried it). That always seemed to be the problem with the 3"->2" method. For smooth and light orange peel jobs we were sliding every angle that had a bevel.


I hotmud prefill the bevels now, then its easy as pie, Homax banjo the flats, Then use up the excess mud from the tape to spot screws, Fill the bevels, prefill the butts fill patches and blow outs/gaps etc, Then everythings all good from then on, Drytime and shrinkage isnt such an issue FOR ME, HERE, WHERE I LIVE doing this, Then box the flats, zooka and mudrun corners, Get out the nail spotters etc:yes: Its not for everyone but takes care of everything for me at a fair pace working on my own.


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## chris

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I'd like to take this oppurtunity to say,,,,,
> 
> If your smaller head is leaving a "groove" in your first coat,,,, you either,,,
> 
> 1) need to adjust your smaller head(its springs are too tight)
> 2) your using lightwieght mud
> 
> Thanks for letting me share


 Lite weight mud user here,what is the Cpt,s take on the lite stuff. We love it:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock

chris said:


> Lite weight mud user here,what is the Cpt,s take on the lite stuff. We love it:thumbsup:


 I don't have any prob using lite stuf,,, I like it also,,,, but If your angleheads are set tight(like they come from the factory for regular mud) and you use the bigger to smaller head system as I do, they will gouge the mud sometimes.

Just trying to make the point that sometimes, if we use mud that the tool was not set up for,,,we need to adjust the tool for it.:thumbsup:


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## jmr

someone want to give me a couple opinions on my angle heads? i have no idea how to fine tune them so i dont even bother... 

it seems like my angles are way to light.. esspecially the right side of my finished angles.. i do tape with a banjo but i think the issue isn't with the amount of mud behind the tape but with the angle heads...

any ideas?


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## 2buckcanuck

jmr said:


> someone want to give me a couple opinions on my angle heads? i have no idea how to fine tune them so i dont even bother...
> 
> it seems like my angles are way to light.. esspecially the right side of my finished angles.. i do tape with a banjo but i think the issue isn't with the amount of mud behind the tape but with the angle heads...
> 
> any ideas?


Have you checked out these vids from Columbia tools
















Here's all their vids http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...5l0l29062l21l21l0l11l11l0l227l1757l0.9.1l10l0


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Have you checked out these vids from Columbia tools
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnSLE-TyuY
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rkqmG6_9MU
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jM4N8XU4V4
> 
> Here's all their vids http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...5l0l29062l21l21l0l11l11l0l227l1757l0.9.1l10l0


Best vids ever made for tool maintenance :thumbsup:


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## Mudshark

*Drywall Tool Repair for Dummies*

Yes those videos by Columbia are great. They could put out a book on the same subject. Call it: "_Drywall Tool Repair for Dummies_"


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buck asked me to post a pic of my "Johnny2",, but he asked me to do it when I wasn't drinking.........Took a cpl weeks,,,,but here it is


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## Bazookaguy

nice videos 2buck. but if you use the DM boneheads, you wont have to mess with all that adjusting and tweeking on the frames. their american made!:yes::thumbsup:


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## Bazookaguy

and one more thing I didnt mention before, when you tweek the frames like that, it weakens the frames even more. thats a tedious and time consuming process to do that. and whos to say they stay square after a couple of uses. if the frames are that far off of being square, your better off buying new frames.


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## SlimPickins

chris said:


> Lite weight mud user here,what is the Cpt,s take on the lite stuff. We love it:thumbsup:


Do you guys like it for smooth? And how about this one....when you're doing your hand textures, do you find that it delaminates if it's been sitting for a bit and then you move the texture mud around? I like working with it, but it's so quirky....and it scratches even when sanding with 220


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## 2buckcanuck

Bazookaguy said:


> nice videos 2buck. but if you use the DM boneheads, you wont have to mess with all that adjusting and tweeking on the frames. their american made!:yes::thumbsup:


Not too sure about that

I got the 2.5 DM, No problems with it but......

When I 1st watched that vid, I held my 2.5 up to the light, and the housing was perfect. Then few months later, one side of angle was not coating properly. So I held it up to a light, and the housing was out just a bit. So since I'm not the most mechanical guy, going to be dropping it off to my repair guy (supply house dude). But those blades never seem to wear out, that's for sure. But will let you know what the repair guy says happened to it. They are a good head though:yes:


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## Bazookaguy

Please do let me know what he tells you. thats real common for one side to be bare like that. the only conclusion ive came up w/ is, you have one bad angle (crooked) their usually all that way for that job. because Ill check my angle head and most of the time I dont see anything wrong w/ it. those heads were designed to be used w/ square flat walls. which are real hard to find most of the time.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 2buck asked me to post a pic of my "Johnny2",, but he asked me to do it when I wasn't drinking.........Took a cpl weeks,,,,but here it is


 That pieace is the "works" for a paint shield,,,came from SW,, had a 18"wood handle on it,,,and a piece of plastic,(ya don't have to buy the paint sheild). The blade is a stainless knife from Blowes,,cost like 8 bucks,,(just drill the rivets out and use the screws that come in the shield holder,,,it's made by HYDE) and the adjustable handle is also from Blowes,,,around 18 bucks,simple adjustable paint pole. 

I like it cause,,,, ya got to have a wipe down knife that is as long as your box handle,,,if your gonna stay off the stilts. You can wipe with it in your right hand and carry a pan in your left,,,, gee,,, kinda like doing it off stilts with just a knife.

Peace out


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## chris

SlimPickins said:


> Do you guys like it for smooth? And how about this one....when you're doing your hand textures, do you find that it delaminates if it's been sitting for a bit and then you move the texture mud around? I like working with it, but it's so quirky....and it scratches even when sanding with 220


 I wouldnt say it is any quirkier than any other muds out there. All muds are time sensitive. It is all we use for finishing (1rst and 2nd coats,angles and touchup,hand texture,skimming etc) we use tapin mud (lite) also. I have come up with a technique to not have recycled mud (the knockdown mud) pilin up. I mix my tex mud sooo runny most fellers wouldnt be able to use and we sand with 240 real lightly. The only time we use heavy mud is for 1rst coat on plastic beads or prefil. We use ready spray for op (good stuff, heavy but hard)


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## SlimPickins

chris said:


> I wouldnt say it is any quirkier than any other muds out there. All muds are time sensitive. It is all we use for finishing (1rst and 2nd coats,angles and touchup,hand texture,skimming etc) we use tapin mud (lite) also. I have come up with a technique to not have recycled mud (the knockdown mud) pilin up. I mix my tex mud sooo runny most fellers wouldnt be able to use and we sand with 240 real lightly. The only time we use heavy mud is for 1rst coat on plastic beads or prefil. We use ready spray for op (good stuff, heavy but hard)


You're hand texturing with light mud? I use Beadex light taping for skip trowel, but Fasttex for all other hand textures. 

I use light muds exclusively also, aside from a sh!tpile of set muds. Personally, I'm thinking about moving on to something different for smooth-wall applications, I'm just starting to dislike the lightweight topping for touching up over itself. I LOVE how easy it sands, but that can also be a problem sometimes...if you're using 240 then you know exactly what I mean.


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## chris

SlimPickins said:


> You're hand texturing with light mud? I use Beadex light taping for skip trowel, but Fasttex for all other hand textures.
> 
> I use light muds exclusively also, aside from a sh!tpile of set muds. Personally, I'm thinking about moving on to something different for smooth-wall applications, I'm just starting to dislike the lightweight topping for touching up over itself. I LOVE how easy it sands, but that can also be a problem sometimes...if you're using 240 then you know exactly what I mean.


 forgot to mention we prefer lite ap, we dont use the lite topping. Its good mud we just prefer the lite ap for everything besides a few other. We use hotmud pretty often also for prefil and catchups (quite often) but really prefer not to use. Hamilton lite hotmud is our fav,fluffy whoopin cream and the buckets fil higher than other brands (full bag)


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## SlimPickins

chris said:


> forgot to mention we prefer lite ap, we dont use the lite topping. Its good mud we just prefer the lite ap for everything besides a few other. We use hotmud pretty often also for prefil and catchups (quite often) but really prefer not to use. Hamilton lite hotmud is our fav,fluffy whoopin cream and the buckets fil higher than other brands (full bag)


I like the light AP too, especially because it holds up when you sand light topping off of it. I do think it tends to shrink a tad more, which in crucial situations is a downside, but it is what it is. I'm going to run an experiment on the next job and try out some Beaded regular mud, maybe only one box, but I'd like to fine tune my system and I seem some areas that could be improved with harder mud that shrinks less.

Oh, and Hamilton's hot mud is all I can get....and I'm not complaining one bit:thumbsup: It seems like they've fixed the troubles they were having with chunks, glue balls, and crazy set times too....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

It must be a regional thing, because we're working with all the same products


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## chris

SlimPickins said:


> I like the light AP too, especially because it holds up when you sand light topping off of it. I do think it tends to shrink a tad more, which in crucial situations is a downside, but it is what it is. I'm going to run an experiment on the next job and try out some Beaded regular mud, maybe only one box, but I'd like to fine tune my system and I seem some areas that could be improved with harder mud that shrinks less.
> 
> Oh, and Hamilton's hot mud is all I can get....and I'm not complaining one bit:thumbsup: It seems like they've fixed the troubles they were having with chunks, glue balls, and crazy set times too....:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> It must be a regional thing, because we're working with all the same products


 Ya I was thinking the same thing about regional. Looks like your area is just like our area ( Northern). I can relate with the lite mud over lite mud thing. We try to put a tad heavier finish coat so its not such a tight skim. Kinda hard to explain but when you pull the lite mud reeeaal tight it looks tooo smooth if you know what I mean


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## SlimPickins

chris said:


> Ya I was thinking the same thing about regional. Looks like your area is just like our area ( Northern). I can relate with the lite mud over lite mud thing. We try to put a tad heavier finish coat so its not such a tight skim. Kinda hard to explain but when you pull the lite mud reeeaal tight it looks tooo smooth if you know what I mean


I do know what you mean. My blade edges are all beveled, so they roll the mud nicely, giving that slightly bumpy look (lets me know where I've sanded and where I haven't). It almost seems like when you pull it really tight, you compress the mud too, and it doesn't sand the same, leading to that whole "onion skin" effect. I don't pull any coats super tight with the stuff, only touch ups...and I've taken to carrying a duster (3" paint brush) with me when touching up smooth, even the dust causes trouble:blink:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, it's worlds better than working with Goldbond :laughing:


----------



## plugger

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 2buck asked me to post a pic of my "Johnny2",, but he asked me to do it when I wasn't drinking.........Took a cpl weeks,,,,but here it is


I gotta find this attachment down at Bunnings..


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## keke

plugger said:


> I gotta find this attachment down at Bunnings..


......or try this plugger


----------



## plugger

keke said:


> ......or try this plugger


No dice. They come loose to easy. How the Capt had his modified one is what I'm gonna find!!


----------



## keke

plugger said:


> No dice. They come loose to easy. How the Capt had his modified one is what I'm gonna find!!


that is 3 years old and never had a problem but here's another option http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sexX2WzOk-c


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## gazman

Or there is this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sexX2WzOk-c


----------



## gazman

Snap :jester:.


----------



## plugger

Ill just find that part Capt used boys. Gotta be cheaper.


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## keke

plugger said:


> Ill just find that part Capt used boys. Gotta be cheaper.


more details please


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## plugger

I will when it comes to hand mate!


----------



## icerock drywall

dont forget the ice xpk ...there strong


----------



## tomg

You can put one of these on any flat box handle:

http://wallboardtools.com.au/store/product-range/hand-tools/taping-knives/twister-taping-knives/TSP-T08

On a Twister handle you can rake it off to one side.

:thumbsup:


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## icerock drywall

tomg said:


> You can put one of these on any flat box handle:
> 
> http://wallboardtools.com.au/store/product-range/hand-tools/taping-knives/twister-taping-knives/TSP-T08
> 
> On a Twister handle you can rake it off to one side.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I made one like this a time ago...and I like yours but I like the feel and the quick change from my 1' to 2' , or 4' to 6 ' ,or 12' 24' paint pole and they snap on and off :yes:


----------



## plugger

tomg said:


> You can put one of these on any flat box handle:
> 
> http://wallboardtools.com.au/store/product-range/hand-tools/taping-knives/twister-taping-knives/TSP-T08
> 
> On a Twister handle you can rake it off to one side.
> 
> :thumbsup:


That's what I was planning on putting on the pole when I find the attachment!


----------



## plugger

icerock drywall said:


> dont forget the ice xpk ...there strong


Want to sell one iceman?!?!


----------



## icerock drywall

plugger said:


> Want to sell one iceman?!?!


witch one do you like . the pole att for any paint pole is about $12 the xpk would be about $40 and the bend is for the high leds dont know how much to sent it?


----------



## icerock drywall

got the part that will fit any paint pole. and the parts that fits the knifes and one 12 '' ready to make:yes:


----------



## plugger

icerock drywall said:


> witch one do you like . the pole att for any paint pole is about $12 the xpk would be about $40 and the bend is for the high leds dont know how much to sent it?


The off angled knife is the one I want so like you said, to do my ceilings! (Where the .. Does the meaning leds/lids come from??)

Anyway whatever the cost of delivery I'm happy to cover, also if you don't mind doing this, can I chuck in a quick order from walltools? Their postage is bloody redic!


----------



## icerock drywall

plugger said:


> The off angled knife is the one I want so like you said, to do my ceilings! (Where the .. Does the meaning leds/lids come from??)
> 
> Anyway whatever the cost of delivery I'm happy to cover, also if you don't mind doing this, can I chuck in a quick order from walltools? Their postage is bloody redic!


yes angled knife is the one for ceilings:yes: sand me your address. I hope I can do it tomorrow because Friday I am going to NH for two week to see my family:drink: you will love this knife


----------



## plugger

Current job atm, flushed internals behind the zook with a can am 2.5, then this afternoon ran the angle box with my Columbia 3.5 mechanical head. 
Made the runniest mix I've ever made, and produced the easiest, cleanest and quickest internals yet! Getting that mix almost like running water made a huge difference! Will get a few pics up on Monday when I get back onsite!


----------



## plugger

I don't think I even need to sand the edges they came out this bloody good..


----------



## keke

plugger said:


> I don't think I even need to sand the edges they came out this bloody good..


welcome on the bright side of using automatic tools :thumbup:


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

white mexican said:


> New member, long time browser. This thread is more entertaining than talk radio. Had to give my 2 cents worth. Capt is so right. MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY! But seriously everyone has their own way of doing things.
> My way-
> bazooka or banjo as the mood hits me
> 2.5 flusher followed by 3.5 on the mudrunner
> no edges to speak of- minimal sanding
> works for me
> :thumbsup:



I can do it anyway a person wants, try different things, eat watermelon with the blacks







, vend burritos with the Mexicans, even tape with moore:blink: and use 120 for final sand with the 2bucks


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## Bevelation

Plugger, those angles look MINT.

Except for your bottoms. Finishing carpenters will have your head.


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## plugger

There looking good from where I'm sitting.


----------

