# 12' standups on metal framing - screw question



## rboss32 (Mar 14, 2014)

Hey guys, 

We are having hangers putting board up right now, it is 12' board stand ups on new metal framing (24 o/c). It's a small project basement remodel project, about 150 boards. 

These guys are spacing their screws out 18"-24". Seems a bit far apart to me. Is this still acceptable? If not what should screw spacing be for edge/field? 1/2" lite board. 

When we hang board horizontally on wood framing we usually screwing every 8-10"... 

Thanks. I know it's kind of a dumb question but I checked out installation manuals on manufacture websites and I didn't find what I'm looking for.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

rboss32 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> We are having hangers putting board up right now, it is 12' board stand ups on new metal framing (24 o/c). It's a small project basement remodel project, about 150 boards.
> 
> ...


See paragraph 5.4

http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GA-216-2010.html


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## rboss32 (Mar 14, 2014)

MrWillys said:


> See paragraph 5.4
> 
> http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/GA-216-2010.html


MrWillys, 

Thank you very much. That is a great manual right there. 

Looks like they should be screwing off edges and field 12" o/c or less since these are standups on 24" o/c framing. When I questioned it they said "this is just how we have always hung it on steel". They have done some very large commercial projects in the area, I guess either they are ****in around with me or their spacing was accepted by others? 

Might there be a reason they are spacing them so far that I am overlooking? We aren't drywall pros, we do just small light commercial and residential projects. The only drywall we hang is small bathrooms and such. We just do the demo/framing/GC of it all. 

Thanks in advance.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

rboss32 said:


> MrWillys,
> 
> Thank you very much. That is a great manual right there.
> 
> ...


yes the reason is ...LAZY


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

1/2" standups on 24 "centers?


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

rboss32 said:


> MrWillys,
> 
> Thank you very much. That is a great manual right there.
> 
> ...


 The document I linked is the Bible for drywall application. When you said steel studs I doubled checked 8.4 which states to refer to 5.4 for screw spacing. The only reason for improper application is ignorance of the understanding of this document, and if the inspector passed this prior he is ignorant too! Had these been rated assemblies it would be 8" oc at edges, and 12 in the field. 
I would not apply 12' sheets vertically. The finisher will whine a little at a horizontal application, but the hangars will screw it up creating offsets from pulling on the studs, and you will see the joints every 4' IMHO. Remember, it only needs to look good from 3' to 7'. Very few see more than this. Have the taper pull the butt joints to 30" and a horizontal application will create the straightest wall (this comment may create a ****storm here). Depending on ceiling height it may behoove you to start with a 24" rip with joints at 6' and 10'.

I'm retired from this industry, and have a very good understanding of what I used to do. I'd probably be in an office estimating, but the degrees from college will work for half of what I expect.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

super rocker said:


> 1/2" standups on 24 "centers?


Table 1 in the document I linked allows 1/2" on 24" stud spacing.


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## rboss32 (Mar 14, 2014)

MrWillys said:


> The document I linked is the Bible for drywall application. When you said steel studs I doubled checked 8.4 which states to refer to 5.4 for screw spacing. The only reason for improper application is ignorance of the understanding of this document, and if the inspector passed this prior he is ignorant too! Had these been rated assemblies it would be 8" oc at edges, and 12 in the field.
> I would not apply 12' sheets vertically. The finisher will whine a little at a horizontal application, but the hangars will screw it up creating offsets from pulling on the studs, and you will see the joints every 4' IMHO. Remember, it only needs to look good from 3' to 7'. Very few see more than this. Have the taper pull the butt joints to 30" and a horizontal application will create the straightest wall (this comment may create a ****storm here). Depending on ceiling height it may behoove you to start with a 24" rip with joints at 6' and 10'.
> 
> I'm retired from this industry, and have a very good understanding of what I used to do. I'd probably be in an office estimating, but the degrees from college will work for half of what I expect.


 Hey, 

Thanks for the response again. The ceiling is actually going to be at 9'-0". The rock is just going that high to close the walls. The finishers will whine about the 12' vertical seams a bit too, but the finisher is a good friend and keeps his mouth shut and just does his job. Good advice though. I agree 100% with what you said. I prefer board horizontal across framing. It will look better and flatter. This project it doesn't much matter as we are finishing off a building's basement to just clean storage, so it's more economy vs perfection. 

I'm going to ask them to add more screws or i'll just do it personally after hours and charge them my time + screws . These guys are on the do not hire list... and to think I'm a really easy going guy that doesn't yell at people. 

For leaving out so many screws they sure are taking a while as well. It's 4 guys hanging, and we are on 3 days now. They have a day or two to go. It's not that chopped up either, It's only 4 rooms. No lids. 

Maybe I got myself some hacks?


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## rboss32 (Mar 14, 2014)

MrWillys said:


> The document I linked is the Bible for drywall application. When you said steel studs I doubled checked 8.4 which states to refer to 5.4 for screw spacing. The only reason for improper application is ignorance of the understanding of this document, and if the inspector passed this prior he is ignorant too! Had these been rated assemblies it would be 8" oc at edges, and 12 in the field.
> I would not apply 12' sheets vertically. The finisher will whine a little at a horizontal application, but the hangars will screw it up creating offsets from pulling on the studs, and you will see the joints every 4' IMHO. Remember, it only needs to look good from 3' to 7'. Very few see more than this. Have the taper pull the butt joints to 30" and a horizontal application will create the straightest wall (this comment may create a ****storm here). Depending on ceiling height it may behoove you to start with a 24" rip with joints at 6' and 10'.
> 
> I'm retired from this industry, and have a very good understanding of what I used to do. I'd probably be in an office estimating, but the degrees from college will work for half of what I expect.


 Also, What happens if one side of the wall is horizontal and the other side is standups? If the horizontal side is applied first wouldn't it hold the wall straight for the standups to be applied? Kind of curious here...


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

Be glad they are not hanging lids
Screws are over rated anyways:laughing:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

rboss32 said:


> Also, What happens if one side of the wall is horizontal and the other side is standups? If the horizontal side is applied first wouldn't it hold the wall straight for the standups to be applied? Kind of curious here...


It depends on the length of the wall, and the desire of the hangar. If you start a bit short on the stud (always screw to open side of stud first. Open side faces layout (soft side)), and are willing to climb a ladder to set the top of sheet it can be done. The rock will grow as you progress down the length of the wall (rather than trim a 1/4") the hanger will start pulling the stud to center at joint. Very shortly a crooked stud joint will occur that no finisher can hide as the joint offsets grow with length of wall. This scenario can be avoided by laying the board down. Any good finisher can make a but look better than rolled edge offsets.
There are plenty of documented assemblies where board can be applied different on each side. Be careful of specific rated UL listings that may need to be followed to the letter. Some inspectors love too wait to catch such an error.


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## goldwing109 (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi,
For a non fire rated wall with 1/2" screws should be placed at 12" on the joints and 16" in the field,on Fire rated the screw spacing are 8" on the joints and 12"in the field. For a fire rated wall you must have continuos backing behind the joints so we stand them up. Place the bevel tight and screw the bottom corner in the track next to the previous sheet,then with someone holding it tight to the previous bevel climb a ladder and put a screw in the top then with the helper still holding climb down and put a screw in the bottom floor track at the far end of the sheet, this will hold everything while you complete screwing off the sheet.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

goldwing109 said:


> Hi,
> For a non fire rated wall with 1/2" screws should be placed at 12" on the joints and 16" in the field.


Only for framing members 16" oc which is not what the OP posted at 24' oc which is 12" oc everywhere. See paragraph 5.4 in the document posted above.


> On Fire rated the screw spacing are 8" on the joints and 12"in the field. For a fire rated wall you must have continuos backing behind the joints.


 Screw spacing is correct, but backing is not true:

*2508.3 Single-ply application. 
*Edges and ends of gypsum board shall occur on the framing members, except those edges and ends that are perpendicular to the framing members. Edges and ends of gypsum board shall be in moderate contact except in concealed spaces where fire-resistance rated construction, shear resistance or diaphragm action is not required. 

*http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2012/icod_ibc_2012_25_sec008.htm*

*I remember reading somewhere that the only non backed joint in rated drywall assemblies is the reinforced edge (factory rolled edge), but that documented statement eludes me at the moment.*


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## goldwing109 (Jan 12, 2014)

Mr Willys
You are correct should have read the post a little better,what i stated was for 16" centers. our jurisdiction does want backing behind all joints on fire rated partitions in commercial apps,most times not enforced but, sometimes the consultants want and watch for it to be this way.


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

In st Louis code is 8-10" in field and 6-8 on seams. that's commercial code


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Field screws? What's dat?


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> Field screws? What's dat?


This was my first thought:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> This was my first thought:
> 
> Austin Powers Blackjack Scene - YouTube


I get It ... I use glue Willy! Lots of It!


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

moore said:


> Field screws? What's dat?


That would be hard to do on metal. Don't you have inspections on screw patterns?


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Even with glue there should be a minimum of one screw in the field, or every 24" oc. see document posted above table 7.4


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> Even with glue there should be a minimum of one screw in the field, or every 24" oc. see document posted above table 7.4


**** that document! I'm gonna do It my way or I won't do It at all!

Your a metal stud man WILLY! I work with wood ...I know what wood will do. Most Building Inspectors here don't push the code for screw spacing .. They understand my method... 


Btw . In the pics above There are NO field screws on the wall sheets!

Just little holes filled with mud.:whistling2:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> **** that document! I'm gonna do It my way or I won't do It at all!
> 
> Your a metal stud man WILLY! I work with wood ...I know what wood will do. Most Building Inspectors here don't push the code for screw spacing .. They understand my method...
> 
> ...


Hence, my Austin Powers post. I grew up in a nail on residential shop that went in to commercial in the early 80's. I've never seen glue used though, so my bad for that.

My posts are a result of an over educated sheetrocker. I went to school in the early 90's and earned a degree in construction inspection. Long story, but it made me appreciate being someone with bags on.

My goal in my posts here are only to educate on our craft, and hopefully inject humor along the way. Honestly, your way is fine in my opinion, and will provide a long lasting finish free of pops. 

Are you from the West side of Appalachia or just your responses?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> Are you from the West side of Appalachia or just your responses?


Just my responses ! Florida born . Virginia raised !

I was also schooled In the trade over the last 29 years..On site! 
I Know what works ,and I know what fails.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> I Know what works ,and I know what fails.


Let's see your degree, to back that up.


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

JustMe said:


> Let's see your degree, to back that up.


Papers? ... we don't need no stinkin' papers! Interesting how the authority of decrees and degrees has brought the industry to its knees. Authority is the proven known-known ... proven by those who continuously experience the experiences of the experienced.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Field General said:


> Papers? ... we don't need no stinkin' papers! Interesting how the authority of decrees and degrees has brought the industry to its knees. Authority is the proven known-known ... proven by those who continuously experience the experiences of the experienced.


 Can you prove this claim with anything other than generalities? The manufacturers have had engineers design their materials and document methods of installation since the beginning of time. Are you claiming Archimedes screw was of the wrong design and could have been better if a sheetrocker fixed it?


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