# Angles for hangers?



## Zach2085 (Dec 9, 2015)

Hey I'm new here and ultimately new to boarding on my own. Recently I've run into some ridiculous angles that aren't 45s I've been able to figure them out trial and error but am finding them super time consuming. Is there a good way to get these multi angled cuts right everytime?

Cheers,
Zach


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Can you be more specific? Triangle pieces in ceilings? Triangles where walls meet ridges? A square can be helpful in translating a ceiling corner distance onto a band for example. If you don't have a framing square, a piece of scrap with a beveled edge and a factory butt edge can work pretty good. If you have over 4' to work with a T square along the band is a good thing to find where 48" contacts an edge or border. Sometimes things are so complicated you need to run a level line down the center of a stud to use as a control line. Make another control line on the sheet you are cutting. Measure off the control line on the wall or ceiling, and apply the same measurement on the sheet. Sometimes you need to find a scrap of ripper with a factory bevel and screw that in place on the wall to use as a guide for measuring and hanging a difficult sheet.


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## Zach2085 (Dec 9, 2015)

Trying to think of how to word it when I'm back at work I'll take a photo. I'm thinking control line may be the best way to go thanks for your help so far!


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## pips (May 15, 2015)

Yea a T-square and a 4 foot tall piece of drywall cut about 8 inches long or so is what we use, chalk line helps too. We don't even call out angles or anything, just measure, mark and cut  Takes abit to learn it all, I'm still learning kinda as I'm hanging as partner cuts. Always measure from one end obviously.


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

well Zach I guarantee you I can help you if you can post a pic I will take more time tomorrow to look at this thread. There is an easy trick for finding every angle and round with just your tape a but or cut off, and the o so important 8" ripper "must have a bevel I just need to no your situation mang :thumbup:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I usually figure out what the pitch is if it's under the trusses.
For example,, 4/12, 5/12, 6/12 and so on. I've been seeing a lot with an extra half pitch in the recent past, most being 5.5/12 pitch.
If you don't already know, this refers to rise/run. 
4/12 is 4" of rise to 12" of run. 
So if you transfer this logic onto a sheet of drywall a 12' sheet would be an angle from from a lower corner to the opposing upper corner.
Thats 12 feet of run and 4 feet of rise. Which can be done in inches as well,,, 12 inches of run 4 inches of rise.
Lets say the pitch is 5/12
every 12 inches of run you raise elevation 5". It's really so simple.
For instance you have an irregular piece to cut,,
You have a flat ceiling 20" in from the left, up 12". You take *THAT POINT* of intersection and apply the 5/12 pitch, which would be,,, UP 5 x 7= 35",,, thats the last upward number that will fit on the sheet from *THAT POINT *of intersection. Then take 7 x 12 for the run, which is 7 feet,( the 7 came from the previous 5 x 7 for the rise) String a chalk line from THAT POINT of intersection to the new point of intersection, _which would end up being_ 104" from the left and up 47" make a cross, pass the line through it and give it a snap. There's your angle.

Once you learn this method of figuring angles it so simple you will use it all the time. 

Under a roof I figure pitch 90%+ of the time.

Make a level line under the pitch to an *exact* foot mark, it doesn't matter how many feet but it needs to be all angle. Measure the rise at that point.
36" of run and 18" of rise,,, break it down to 12 divided by 3 (because 36" is 3 feet) it would be a 6/12 pitch.

I hope this helps,, it's easier to show how to do it than explain how it's done.
-Mike


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Measure the high and the low, snap line, cut rock, install fasteners. No trig because it's just drywall people. Don't make it harder than it has to be.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> Measure the high and the low, snap line, cut rock, install fasteners. No trig because it's just drywall people. Don't make it harder than it has to be.


Sometimes easier said than done due to the specifics of the house. We worked on a modern home this last spring in which (by design in one pod of the house) none of the floor layout was square. All of the ceilings were either sloped or flat quadrilaterals. The rafters were not square to any wall. And while it was hangeable, it sure was a pain in the butt. Generated a lot of scrap.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

All anyone needs is one straight line to work from. While it may take time anything can be done.

I framed this radius ceiling back in 08 studding it in a radial fashion. All adjoining walls were where at 45*. I snapped a single line and rocked it. If it had no backing I threw a stud on the end of the sheet.








I've built barrel ceilings using rock to form the barrel and screwing framing angle to the radius. FWIW, that's foam creating the cove.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> Measure the high and the low, snap line, cut rock, install fasteners. No trig because it's just drywall people. Don't make it harder than it has to be.


Ok Willys, If you have to hang a wall from ceiling down which comes to a peak, your method won't work,,, there's nothing to measure to.


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## Zach2085 (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the help guys I keep forgetting to take a picture as I'm trying to move threw these fast but am on the next one within a week so I'll try them out and get back to yah. You guys rock by the way really appreciate this


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Ok Willys, If you have to hang a wall from ceiling down which comes to a peak, your method won't work,,, there's nothing to measure to.


Piece of cake, when I was an apprentice I worked on what was called the high crew. We hung everything in the house above 8' and left. This way the company could piece the house out at base wage of 2000' per man per day. What it was was a way for the lead journeyman to take advantage of apprentices by shorting our hours.

Anyway, just measure up 96 1/2" and snap a line and you now have something to measure to. One straight line is all you need. You're not framing a roof, you're hanging rock.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Since you didn't already know,,, 96 1/2' lands on a horizontal framing member, which is a no-no for breaking a joint on. You need to span over those with the sheet.
Using pitch is faster than and easier than measuring up and chalking lines.
I just wanted to share the method,,, you only need to know simple addition and how to read a tape measure. No trig required.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm just telling you what we did. Didn't know there was rock etiquette but thanks for sharing. That is absolutely what we did. If you don't want to break on a plateline measure up 7'-6". Smarter not harder. Never hung rock with a calculator. Wall layout, yes!


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't hang using a calculator either. 
It's only drywall.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

I just hang a full twelve footer parallel to one side of the vault then piece around it. Plenty to measure to.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Since you didn't already know,,, 96 1/2' lands on a horizontal framing member, which is a no-no for breaking a joint on. You need to span over those with the sheet.
> Using pitch is faster than and easier than measuring up and chalking lines.
> 
> 
> Since when? King studs go floor to roof (top plate ) on vaulted ceilings. If there is something you have to span over, change the top ripper size to one that works in that situation. Not rocket science. And as I said earlier, you can even hang a piece of scrap ripper material below the line Mr Willys was referring to, to have a temporary ledge on the wall. This helps especially if there are window cutouts along the bottom band of the sheet which make alignment difficult..


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I never see any balloon framing in residential.
We have a lot of walls set on 45 degree angles. We just measure the starting point of the angle and make a 45. 
You need less measurements off the work and the result is the same.
You're right it's not rocket science.
We don't chalk lines or put up scrap to measure to. We go right to cutting angles.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I never see any balloon framing in residential.
> We have a lot of walls set on 45 degree angles. We just measure the starting point of the angle and make a 45.
> You need less measurements off the work and the result is the same.
> You're right it's not rocket science.
> We don't chalk lines or put up scrap to measure to. We go right to cutting angles.


Sure, you can figure rise over run of each corner of a triangle piece. I wasn't talking 45 degree angles. Maybe 87 degree angles or 153 degree angles. We have a lot of ultra modern looking architecture that probably doesn't resemble what you see in other parts of the country. Stacks of four sided window wraps that must be string lined floor to ceiling and also horizontally. If you have 20' walls, it would be absurd to use 8' studs and stack wall plates. The walls would buckle. Continuous studs are the only thing that would pass an engineers calculations given our snow loads. Often from engineered lumber.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Western Platform framing is the predominant framing method in the US. Roofs are rarely hand cut as trusses are cheaper and faster. Double top plates at 8 or 9' are common with cripple walls above to tie into the roof line. Balloon framing is rare but is still done. I studded a 3 story exterior once with 54' 8" 14 ga we stood with a Gradall. I've also done a 3 story Hilton Western Platform all in metal though. I can see parts of Colorado using different methodology above 6000' like here up at Tahoe. However, this is the exception and not the norm.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

endo_alley said:


> Sure, you can figure rise over run of each corner of a triangle piece. I wasn't talking 45 degree angles. Maybe 87 degree angles or 153 degree angles. We have a lot of ultra modern looking architecture that probably doesn't resemble what you see in other parts of the country. Stacks of four sided window wraps that must be string lined floor to ceiling and also horizontally. If you have 20' walls, it would be absurd to use 8' studs and stack wall plates. The walls would buckle. Continuous studs are the only thing that would pass an engineers calculations given our snow loads. Often from engineered lumber.


I almost never see a pitch over 45 degree(12/12)
Anything over 90 degrees and less than 180 degree is an obtuse angle. 
If it's under roof it must be less than 90 degrees.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

.....


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> Western Platform framing is the predominant framing method in the US. Roofs are rarely hand cut as trusses are cheaper and faster. Double top plates at 8 or 9' are common with cripple walls above to tie into the roof line. Balloon framing is rare but is still done. *I studded a 3 story exterior once with 54' 8" 14 ga we stood with a Gradall.* I've also done a 3 story Hilton Western Platform all in metal though. I can see parts of Colorado using different methodology above 6000' like here up at Tahoe. However, this is the exception and not the norm.


That's funny Scott, I balloon framed some exterior walls at a Hilton Gardens in the Allentown area, they were only 32' 8"x 2 3/4" from what I recall. Got em' up with the Gradall.
On that same job I framed a hip roof canopy over the entrance as well, along with a lot of other structural and partition framing. 
I haven't done a whole lot of larger commercial frames since the early 2000's and I kind of miss it.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> That's funny Scott, I balloon framed some exterior walls at a Hilton Gardens in the Allentown area, they were only 32' 8"x 2 3/4" from what I recall. Got em' up with the Gradall.
> On that same job I framed a hip roof canopy over the entrance as well, along with a lot of other structural and partition framing.
> I haven't done a whole lot of larger commercial frames since the early 2000's and I kind of miss it.


I framed a roof on a Target in San Jose in 1997 that was fun. That's when you get semi loads of studs straight from the plant. I built a Nextel (remember them) Switch station once. 2 rooms 100' long and 40' wide inside a warehouse, I joisted it with double 14'x 2-1/2" flange studs with 5" tracks top and bottom screwed 12" oc. I set them on top of the 8" 14 ga walls with a forklift. Rooms where filled with computers with cable trays hanging from my joists for all the data and power lines. My studs for this were rolled by Steeler in Seattle and trucked to the Dublin, CA.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

One more thing Endo,, being 90 degrees is plumb an angle cut at 87 degrees is so unbelievable steep (maybe 2 1/2"run in four feet of rise) I find it hard to believe anyone builds to a peak like that, you'd never fit inside. Even the highest church steeples are less pitch. 
Just saying.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

The only time we see a plate in the middle of a wall is if that plate is supporting a floor on the other side of the wall. A stairway would be a good example of that. Otherwise the walls are stood up one piece from subfloor to ceiling/roof. If the roof support is trussed that would be different. But that is not typical except maybe for a garage.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I almost never see a pitch over 45 degree(12/12)
> Anything over 90 degrees and less than 180 degree is an obtuse angle.
> If it's under roof it must be less than 90 degrees.


Sorry P.A.. This may sound crazy, but I was referring to floor layout. There were no or at least very few 90 degree , or even 135 degree wall angles in part the house I was referring to. All inside angles were non n 90 crazy angles. So it made cutting the ceiling sheets awkward. But I imagine it was a lot worse for whoever did layout for the foundation.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

We see odd angles occasionally on floor plans and do it old skool. As far as a roof pitch I've found some with an extra half pitch, but it's no problem.
The reason I started using pitch when hanging drywall is because it's the root of all roof angles. It's ridiculously easy to learn, you can start anywhere on the sheet and apply it with as little as one measurement, their very accurate and you take less measurements off the wall.
I taught the guy who trained me to hang how to use it, as well as a few others.
They usually say can't believe they didn't already know how to do it.
It's a good skill worth learning.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

You still probably have to use a square if there is a beam notch to cut out of the top wall sheet, though. And often the spring point height on one side of the sheet is different than the height of the spring point on the other side of the sheet. So it is good to have some kind of horizontal control line to measure off of. Even if it is just the top band of the stacked up sheets below.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Isosceles triangle.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm unfamiliar with the term spring point referring to a straight cut angle. I've heard it used on arches.
If there's a beam I can cut it with just a beam dimension, I place it where I what it to land on the sheet.. If there are different pitches on either side of the beam, it ain't no problem, I just cut different pitches.
Hanging from ceiling down, that is.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Isosceles triangle.


Under most gable cathedral's:thumbup:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes. I'll use a 4' level, get a mark A 4' down from the peak, level across studs for marks B,C, then take mesurement from all points of mesurement in inches and fractions. Connect the dots and Walla isosceles triangle. 

That way you dont have a butt at the peak. Also a lot easier when working from the floor up the measurements will be there for you.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I'm unfamiliar with the term spring point referring to a straight cut angle. I've heard it used on arches.
> If there's a beam I can cut it with just a beam dimension, I place it where I what it to land on the sheet.. If there are different pitches on either side of the beam, it ain't no problem, I just cut different pitches.
> Hanging from ceiling down, that is.


It is just a term I have heard used around here for the point where a horizontal wall plate intersects a sloped wall plate. Such as the corners of a gable or gabled dormer.


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## Zach2085 (Dec 9, 2015)

This one seems to be all 45s but still I think I maybe over thinking er


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Zach2085 said:


> This one seems to be all 45s but still I think I maybe over thinking er


Piece of cake, from the second layers extreme rolled edge ends measure and strike arcs on the sheet from each end. Where the arcs intersect is the point.

Arcs with a pencil.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

A little bit of high school plane geometry goes a long way in construction.


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## Zach2085 (Dec 9, 2015)

Yeah was easy peezy once I quit over thinking it thanks guys !


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

rebaccaliare said:


> Hey Image can get more clear picture. Can you post that?


Hey Fr8, looks like another bot. The bio says contractor quotes just like meto.


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## gn87berner (Jan 3, 2016)

a trick......take a piece of 4' by floor paper (you have that?) and staple it in place, creasing and cutting it to fit. lay on sheet scribe and cut. no reference line needed


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