# Windows and doors



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Hello everyone
Im just wondering how the windows and doors are done in different areas, these are some pics of the house im doing and how the windows are done here in nz.

If we get lucky we will get architraves, which is a timber frame, then the wallboard goes on around this and a timber bead goes on around the outside edges to cover the gap, this is nice to get as the sheet joins can be kept to a minimum. As in picture 1 and 2

If we get not so lucky then we get Revels, which is a timber frame that has a groove rebated the side and top and bottom for the wallboard sheets to slot into. This tends to create butt join above and below the windows/doors. and thin corners. As in picture 3, note the boot prints left by the builders with small stones pressed into the wallboard and the butt joins above and below, use your imagination to figure out how many of these a houseful of windows/doors can produce.

And if we get even less lucky as i have had for the first time aluminum windows with nothing around them but wallboard, yes i realise this is how its done in some parts of the world but here is how it went for me, the wall board strips down the side and along the top we not square to the window frame, 15mm difference is some places, so i had to get the builders to pack them out for me so i could at least get them square, then i had to cut the paper off one side of the trim to tuck it against the frame and another 90 degree on the out side. Along the top were the windows went to the ceiling there was a strip of wallboard there as well so a trim along frame went first, the a strip of no coat with some of the edge cut off on one side went on the ceiling against the lip and then i put an L trim up into that to lock it all up and hopefully wont crack.
Hope this makes sense, bit hard to explain so i hope the pictures help.

And yes why havent i used a nail spotter, becouse half the screw heads are sticking out or damaged paper, so i do them by hand and finish the rows off with my drywallmaster 5.5inch box.

Picture 5 is some of the view, bit cloudy that day, pic 6 is the front and yes i am doing the eves as well and no that is not me. Its amazing how much light this house gets as the sun sets in front of it so i will be doing about 70% of this house to a level 5 so i had better be on my best or the light is going to kick my arse and it will be entered in the masterbuilders house of the year awards.

So how are the window frames done in america were its all wallboard and no timber??


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

usually wrapped windows are finished with the cheesy vinyl stuff against the window. i like to use tear away bead on those but not every job is worth it. it keeps the mud off the window and still stops the moisture from wicking into drywall.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

well i can say first hand, you kiwi's make it about as hard on a taper (gib stopper) as you can. The house i am currently working on down here has about a million but joints above windows with the frames already installed so i can't just swipe down. i have to go up then down with only about 10" from the top of the celing to the frame which protrudes about an inch past the drywall. this make is virtually impossible to get all 1 million of the joints to turn out well. almost makes me contemplate coating them sideways... insanity. i've never had to use my 1" & 2" knife so much in my life to do those tight angles beside doors.

joints above windows & doors are about the worst places to have joints because those are most prone to cracking.

in canada there are never any frames on the windows before i start. aluminium frames haven't been used since the 80's because they condense so much in the cold and are a terrible terrible insulator. our NZ aluminum frames and dripping water... why do you guys use them? they can't possibly be cheaper. We have lots of houses with PVC plastic frames that don't sweat. I never have to 'flat tape' against any windows ever to fill gaps. The trim always covers it. I wish i had pictures. 

simply put, it's just plain stupid where you live and the only way to fix the problem is by converting one builder at a time and explaining why it makes life so hard on the painters and tapers.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

when there is drywall against a PVC (aluminum for you) window/door like you have in the second picture, left door/window, we use a plastic 'J' trim which the drywaller slides on edge of the board touching the window/door so that there are no gaps, and if there is any moisture, it won't mold/damage the drywall, which i see all the time over here, moldy window sills.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi Mc Dusty
Im so pleased you have come here so i can have someone compare and understand the differences, i dont know how its done else where so thanks for you input.
Yes the mould sills are common and the pvc windows i think are here but only a few companys in nz have them and i havent seen or heard of any yet. Now that you are finding out first hand what the revels and mega butts and tight corners are all about you can see how it takes so long to get through a house and how limited the machine tools are, you still have to do a lot of hands on stuff.
So your telling me the windows i am doing up against the wallboard will most likely condensate and get damp?? well now you mention it how obvious, well i look forward to the callback in years to come then that i cant fix, What the $%#@ else was i supposed to do, there is nothing else available for me to use.
This house has water pipes in the concrete floor and will be heated with hot water from a heat pump, and a gas fire, i hope this does not make the condensation worse.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

cazna said:


> Hi Mc Dusty
> Im so pleased you have come here so i can have someone compare and understand the differences, i dont know how its done else where so thanks for you input.
> Yes the mould sills are common and the pvc windows i think are here but only a few companys in nz have them and i havent seen or heard of any yet. Now that you are finding out first hand what the revels and mega butts and tight corners are all about you can see how it takes so long to get through a house and how limited the machine tools are, you still have to do a lot of hands on stuff.
> So your telling me the windows i am doing up against the wallboard will most likely condensate and get damp?? well now you mention it how obvious, well i look forward to the callback in years to come then that i cant fix, What the $%#@ else was i supposed to do, there is nothing else available for me to use.
> This house has water pipes in the concrete floor and will be heated with hot water from a heat pump, and a gas fire, i hope this does not make the condensation worse.


A 'super taper' for tape-in works best out here because there are so many tight spots. a banjo & bazooka don't fit on those spots. 

super taper is also the 'messy'est' one of the bunch, but it's fast and does a great job.


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## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

Cazna in pic 4 are those 12 or 16 footers on the ceiling? 16 is what it looks like can't tell though was just curious. Did you hang also or just finishing?

Rebel


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

They are 6 metre long sheets rebel, thats the biggest we can get, 13mm thick, 1200mm wide, and no i didnt hang it, the builders did all that.
And i found out today that the windows are thermal break, which has a plastic type strip between the outside and inside of the windows to stop the cold from getting to the inside so condensation should not be a problem, thank goodness for that.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

i should also mention that it seems that most tapers/gib stoppers out here seem to be getting $6-8/sqmeter / .60 - .80sq foot just for labor... which is totally insane. makes me feel less sorry for you. why oh why do the guys out here coat the whole house with fast set mud and then 2 coats of finish on top of that. all you need are the 2 coats of finish ontop of tape.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

That rate is insane?? is that more than you would get in canada?? Remember all the extra work per square metre we have to do, does that still make it an insane rate??
I dont know why they are doing 2 coats of air drying on top of 2 coats of setting, that seems insane to me too.
They must love plastering, or sanding, and if they are doing all that then is the metre rate still insane or if you work out the price verses hrs worked then you may find its only average or below average hourly rate for working.


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

it's an insane rate. we make about half that in canada and it's not half the work, we do a lot more detail out of drywall than you guys do, like built in entertainment units & drywall return windows.

to clarify what the 3 companies i've worked for out here so far...

tape in with fast set
coat with fast set
2x coat of air dry.

the coat of fast set it completely unecessary. yes, the rates out here are insanely high.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

If they are high then that suits me fine :thumbsup:, but i dont seem to make big money, At the end of the year its only average wages, same as anything else, I certianly would not want it to be lower, im sure other kiwis on here would state the same??


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

McDusty said:


> i should also mention that it seems that most tapers/gib stoppers out here seem to be getting $6-8/sqmeter / .60 - .80sq foot just for labor... which is totally insane. makes me feel less sorry for you. why oh why do the guys out here coat the whole house with fast set mud and then 2 coats of finish on top of that. all you need are the 2 coats of finish ontop of tape.


 Yup, thats about right, plus I charge $7 per linear metre on top of that for square stopping (top angles), external beads, gibcove (cornice), materials and gst included, not to mention $1 per km for travel, a few years back when Wanaka and the lakes district had a major boom you could name your price because there was more work than workers.
Hey Caz - Sounds like you need to put your prices up :thumbsup:.


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