# Joint compound Testers needed



## rebel20

Our new company located in Lexington NC is distributing a new product to the states. In all aspects it’s a Tapeless Joint Compound. Vario Joint Compound was developed in 1985 by Rigips Germany as a fast setting chemical dry compound for use with or without tape. It is applied by hand although tests have been done using a 7” box it is not recommended. The application process is cut almost in half when using hand tools through the drying time and not requiring tape, although with fibreglass tape the added process time is minimal. The difference in the width of the application is the key where as normal mud requires 8-12” of application Vario requires 6-8” on the factory joints and requires 18- 24” on the butt joints Vario is 4-8” thus less material application, saving time saving $. Then again we have to look at the variables if the board is not hung right i.e. bowed, edges not aligned and so forth under these circumstances no mud is going to save time. You ask what the difference is between Vario and other fast setting compounds, for one it is paintable. 

The bed coat is applied then 30-40 minutes later rough edges scraped using a drywall knife, second coat is applied, rough edges scraped, light sand if needed and then painted all within a process of 3 to 4 hours. This is a perfect setting for remodel, repairs (drywall or plaster) and new construction. I have filled holes up to 3” in diameter with out tape and 2 applications. We have tested the product ourselves in 2007 at the University of North Carolina Greensboro. With boxes, over paint (no Bubbles) covered Ink and black marker (no bleed through), filled holes up to 3” (no cracks because of thickness), plaster crack repairs, built a construction and shook by hand after 3 weeks got hairline crack by shaking the hell out of the construction with 15” of movement. We have sample bags and buckets for anyone who is willing to give it a try at no cost we will pay for shipping as well. I know the situation out there is hard and risks are not wanted, trying it in a closet or even in your own house or garage or basement is sufficient to give and honest feedback of the product negative or positive. One can not improve a product only on positive feedback. I would appreciate this very much. If interested in testing send me a PM and I will arrange for you to receive sample product. 

Rebel


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## A+ Texture LLC

Would you recomend it for a "marriage line" in a modular or doublewide? And how would you compare its strength to something like sheetrocks hot mud?


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## rebel20

A+ Texture LLC said:


> Would you recomend it for a "marriage line" in a modular or doublewide? And how would you compare its strength to something like sheetrocks hot mud?


 
Yes,
And it is stronger according to All American homes of Indiana we sent them to test and the results were finished, through the production line, to the crane ,on the truck to the job site 150 miles away no cracks. according to the finisher if that would have been sheetrocks hotmud or durabond would have had at least 40 cracks to repair. First mud he ever seen make down the line no cracks. Application was Vario no tape as bed coat and finish mud 1 coat level 4. Vario was 6- 8" and finish coat was 10- 12" thats the way they wanted it.


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## silverstilts

Have you used it on any high end jobs or any commercial applications ? just curious .


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## rebel20

yes as said above 
Theatre/Auditorium UNCG Greensboro, NC 
There was actually a test done on the orcestra pit ceiling, one half was done with Hotmud and tape the other with our mud you could see the joint lines on the hotmud side no joint on the vario side. here is a pickture of the foyer ceiling where the supervisor won $100 bet with the Arcitect because of the lighting the Acrhitect said no matter what mud was used you would see the joints.


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## rebel20

It is also being used in canada on high end houses Level 4 /5 as well as here in germany on all types of commercial and residential projects. Had a museem here in Berlin designed by Frank Gehry renowned Architect out of California.


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## TonyM

How can you paint a joint that has had two coats of compound after 4 hours? It might be set, but it certainly won't be dry.
I think I used this Rigips stuff on a job in Hamburg in 1993. Is set really hard and quickly and came in small bags.


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## rebel20

TonyM said:


> How can you paint a joint that has had two coats of compound after 4 hours? It might be set, but it certainly won't be dry.
> I think I used this Rigips stuff on a job in Hamburg in 1993. Is set really hard and quickly and came in small bags.


 
I don't recall using the word dry in my description. Due to the Polymers it is paintable after it sets.

To that point you may have used the 30 min which was back then there is now a 45 min. It has been improved on over the last 15 years.


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## Mr. Mud Man

- Does it come in different set times other than 30 and 45? 
- If you spot your screws with it how many times do you need to coat them? (In the picture it looks like you only hit them once.) 
- How thick can you apply it?
- What is cost per bag and how much do you get per bag?
- What is the average coverage per bag? (How many sheets)

Look forward to trying it!


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## rebel20

Mr. Mud Man said:


> - Does it come in different set times other than 30 and 45?
> 
> - If you spot your screws with it how many times do you need to coat them? (In the picture it looks like you only hit them once.)
> - How thick can you apply it?
> - What is cost per bag and how much do you get per bag?
> - What is the average coverage per bag? (How many sheets)
> Look forward to trying it!


 
-Not at this time we have the 45 in states.

-Actually that was the case all depends on the application.

-Recommended is up to 2" after that can't garantee allthough I have filled a 3" hole in Plaster no cracks.

-Cost per bag is on web site sent you a PM. Bags are 11lb and 55lb
A 1 lb 2lb and 10lb bucket for small repairs.

-Around 400sq/ft per 11lb. and around 1600 to 2000 sq/ft per 55lb depending on application. 

Rebel


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## Mr. Mud Man

I was looking around the site and saw it talking about a tool to trim the butt joints. Is that anything like the butt taper tool?
http://www.butttaper.com/video.htm

If not is there any way I could get ahold of one to try? I have a big job comming up where I'd love to give this a shot. Thanks.

Tim


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## rebel20

Actuallly its similar to a rasp except it has two blades, cuts a 45°/23° on the butt edges. here in germany they acually make a board with what they call the Vario edge. I will have one sent with the mud.


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## rebel20

Guy's that got or are receiving samples, if you have any questions before application send me a PM you should be receiving them today or tomorrow.

Rebel


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## poconorock

Please send me a sample of this product. I am interested in trying it out on an upcomming job that is time sensitive. If I can save on the taping, I can save on time and therefore money.

Historic Walls
114 Shawnee Rd.
Shohola, Pa. 18458

Thanks! I'll supply feedback.


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## rebel20

your welcome you should allready have it


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## rebel20

Those of you who just requested samples they are on the way

Rebel


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## EZCOMPOUNDER

Wish your web site was also in english


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## rebel20

EZCOMPOUNDER said:


> Wish your web site was also in english


 
Our web site is in english you were probably looking at the manufacturers web site. 

Want to wish all a Happy new year and a prosperous 2010

And a thanks to those that have tested or unfortunatly waiting for jobs to come to test I await your results


Rebel


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## akcajun

I loved the mud rebel..Could you send me a butt cutter the one you were referring to from germany??


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## kgphoto

I was able to use this mud for the first time today. I found it was harder to mix, by that I mean stiffer than Westpac/Hamiltons Easy Sand. It didn't get as "loose" when I added more water to the initial mix.

However, once mixed, it was very creamy and spreadable. This allowed making corrections and blending areas very simply. I put a fan, no heat, on it and was able to get three coats on in one day. I touched up sanded it and then skim coated with a General Purpose mud, which is my preferred choice for my skim.

It sanded nicely, but I noticed a few poc marks and some "light coverage" areas, so that is why I skimmed. It was probably due to the fact I didn't use my light, just the room lights and overlooked these few spots.

Tomorrow I will sand and then prime and paint. I have some areas that didin't get a skim of GP so I will be able to see if there is any differnce in primer absorption.

Overall, I like it. I will need to test it on a larger area and mix larger amounts.


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## Mr. Mud Man

So I finally got an opportunity to try out the mud on a patch recently. I thought it mixed fine and was extremely creamy and nice to work with. I tried using the trimming tool you sent but I wasn't a big fan of how it cut the rock. It seemed I could get a cleaner cut just doing it by hand. 

I think the mud worked great. There was some shrinkage but no cracks and I left one joint at 3/4 inch to test it out and it shrunk a little more but didn't crack.


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## kgphoto

Further update.

Now that I have been back to the job I can see that after it is fully dry it is a harder surface to sand. When it was "green" it sanded very easy, now not so much. Using a sponge backed sandpaper, it wasn't cut well and sanded the softer skim around it leaving a bump. I didn't have a hard backed sander with me on this job.

I did find that it scrapes very easily. By this, I mean I could shave it with my sharp painter's tool (think wide chisel) and it didn't chatter or break out, but shaved cleanly. This is a fast, low dust way to take care of bumps.

I notice it did shrink more than the Easy Sand on the Nail holes. That is not a big deal as I was planning on multiple coats. I will try a larger patch and see how much it shrinks there.

Definitely wear a mask when mixing and sanding this material.


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## brian mulligan

*Testing compound*

Rebel:

If you could send me a sample bucket I'd appreciate it.


Brian Mulligan 
44 Botsford Hill 
Newtown,Ct.06470


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## rebel20

Sent out quite a few samples all over the states some results are back positive as well as negative want to thank all who have tested and gave feed back. Those of you still waiting on samples they are on the way. And those that have not been able to test yet I look forward to your comments.

Rebel


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## kgphoto

Having had an opportunity to test the chamfering tool, I must say that the first try wasn't too promising. Then we figured out we were using it upside down. I think a picture of it in use would forgo that experience for future users. The cut was pretty ragged, until we changed the orientation of the tool. Then it wasn a much steeper chamfer and a much smoother cut.

One other observation on the mud, is that it does shrink more than Westpac's Easy sand mud. While doing a demo at a school, we did a chamfered seam and filled it flush and as it dried there was quite a dip. This is not a complaint, as I expect to do multiple coats anyway, but just an observation.


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## rebel20

Ya my first try was not all that well either I still need to translate the instructions will post on web when finished.


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## poconorock

*Hot mud*



rebel20 said:


> Sent out quite a few samples all over the states some results are back positive as well as negative want to thank all who have tested and gave feed back. Those of you still waiting on samples they are on the way. And those that have not been able to test yet I look forward to your comments.
> 
> Rebel


 Rebel,
Liked the mud a lot. Sets when it says it will and dries hard as a rock. Great for patches and big fills. Very creamy and easy to work with. Price and availability of the mud never discussed. Can i get it in larger bags, like the Easy Sand or National Gypsum products? If so, where?
Rock


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## Drywaller

Rebel,
I used your setting compound today on a plaster crack repair through out a house here in NH.
It mixed up a little stiff as someone else said but it was very creamy and nice to work with.
Some of the work I was going over was water damaged and stained,It did seem to bleed thru but I guess it is normal?
This product reminds me of the NON sandable durabond I will use once and awhile,Very hard when set.
I didnt get one of the butt tools,I would of like to try one.
Over all it seemed to go on nice and smooth,I am still a little leery about Not using tape,But I will try that method out soon on another job coming up .


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## rebel20

*Vario 120 testers*

Ok guys looking for 10 testers for the vario120 anyone interested shoot me a PM with contact info.

Rebel


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## rebel20

rebel20 said:


> Ok guys looking for 10 testers for the vario120 anyone interested shoot me a PM with contact info.
> 
> Rebel


Finally the shipping company got there sh it together it has arrived after an Ice storm, a truck breakdown and so on I was about to start firing people last week. Guys on my list we will be getting the mud out by tomorrow.


Rebel


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## Protaper

Has there been any UL testing done on this material for use in fire rated assemblies?


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## rebel20

Protaper said:


> Has there been any UL testing done on this material for use in fire rated assemblies?


 
see web under downloads.

rebel


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## rebel20

All Packages should be arriving today

Rebel


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## Workaholic

It arrived and I will be trying it when I get back to work on the 5th.


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## 2buckcanuck

It arrived and I will be trying it when I get back to work on the 5th.
you can mix it in your new mud pan your getting too:yes::jester:


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> It arrived and I will be trying it when I get back to work on the 5th.
> you can mix it in your new mud pan your getting too:yes::jester:


 SSHHHHHHHHHHH,,, 2buck,,,,,, He don't know its a joke.:thumbup:


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## Workaholic

2buckcanuck said:


> It arrived and I will be trying it when I get back to work on the 5th.
> you can mix it in your new mud pan your getting too:yes::jester:


I have already been using the pan, figured I would use it more than twice before I gave feedback on it. 


Capt-sheetrock said:


> SSHHHHHHHHHHH,,, 2buck,,,,,, He don't know its a joke.:thumbup:


lol


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## Bill from Indy

I got mine too Rebel...will post up when I get a chance to fire up the boxes...thx


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## betterdrywall

I received some samples,, even though I did not request them,, Just want to say thanks,, I will give the material a real try out on some patch work,, I got lots of repairs to do all the time.. Take Care and Thanks again Steve.


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## joepro0000

I got it too, gonna try it out and post some more pics. This time on a couple of sheets vs a patch.


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## Workaholic

Gary, I tried the mud last week, I used it on a repair but did not try it as tapeless because I read on the package if the rock was different heights then tape was recommended. I did not hang the drywall repair just was doing the finishing.

I thought it mixed well, dried well and had no complaints. Is it available in the states? If I used more of it and got hooked could I find it? 

Thanks for sending the tool as well. :thumbsup:

Bottom line is I wish I would of tried it as the tapeless product it is but am sure it would of performed well. A+


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## SlimPickins

I'm still waiting to use mine, I haven't had a situation yet where I needed the 120 minute set time.


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## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> I'm still waiting to use mine, I haven't had a situation yet where I needed the 120 minute set time.


What situations are you waiting for this would interest me as the 120 is just setting time and can be used in all situations.

rebel


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## moore

br549


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## 2buckcanuck

rebel20 said:


> What situations are you waiting for this would interest me as the 120 is just setting time and can be used in all situations.
> 
> rebel


because you half to explain that 120 minutes equals 2 hours play time.
your talking to tapers you know:whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> What situations are you waiting for this would interest me as the 120 is just setting time and can be used in all situations.
> 
> rebel


On the smaller jobs I'm not usually able to wait 120 minutes, and require faster set times. Most of the time 90 minutes is pushing it. (yesterday, my 90 took 2-1/2 hours! I just left, I couldn't take it anymore..)


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## rebel20

2buckcanuck said:


> because you half to explain that 120 minutes equals 2 hours play time.
> your talking to tapers you know:whistling2:


2buck I forget that sometimes


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## rebel20

moore said:


> moore
> 1015 rosney road
> dillwyn virginia 23936


thanks for the address but if your interested in trying the mud send me a PM


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## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> On the smaller jobs I'm not usually able to wait 120 minutes, and require faster set times. Most of the time 90 minutes is pushing it. (yesterday, my 90 took 2-1/2 hours! I just left, I couldn't take it anymore..)


If you would have used the Vario you would not of had to wait so long. And by the way if you were doing a patch vario can be painted after it sets

rebel


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## rebel20

rebel20 said:


> Ok guys looking for 10 testers for the vario120 anyone interested shoot me a PM with contact info.
> 
> Rebel[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Got my 10 so want to thank the guys here at DWT for trying the product looking forward to the results.
> 
> Rebel


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## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> If you would have used the Vario you would not of had to wait so long. And by the way if you were doing a patch vario can be painted after it sets
> 
> rebel


It's rare that the 90 takes that kind of time, and from what I've read the vario set time can vary based on temperature and humidity? I like that it can be painted, that's useful information...so it's not a problem to seal moisture in the wall? 

I was doing a small room, 10x7, with some funky tie-ins to existing framing. It was _supposed _to be a tape-top-skim kind of day....and generally 
I try to think of how long it's going to take me to coat everything in the room after tape....and choose the mud appropriately, so I can skim right after I scrape it. You wouldn't know it by talking to me/watching me type, but I am rather efficient once in a blue moon:brows:


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## Tim0282

I have used Vario mud with reservation. Being an "old timer", it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. This is really nice mud. Mixes easy in a pan or in a bucket. Goes on smooth, shrinks very little and stays in place with no cracks. I like it and plan to order more. If you have the opportunity to try it, you'll like it. Good stuff!


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## rebel20

Tim,
Glad you like it with every new product I am sure every one will be reserved. thats the reason for having you guys the pro's testing it first.

Rebel

p.s. If anyone took pic's please feel free to post them.


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## Drywaller

I tired out the 120 today and again mixes and has a great smooth consistency to it,It is very creamy like the Georgia Pacific sandable 90 I use all the time.

As some one else asked ,Where is this product sold ?And does it come in bigger bags?and what is the pricing on it ?

Thanks again for the samples,I would consider using it more if it where in my area,Quality is a big concern of mine and if this product could help overall,It would be used by me.


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## Tim0282

They do sell it in 50 pound bags.


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## moore

it works with no tape. in the worst conditions. but for how long? it is a great hot mud , the best I've used. when it cures. it's cement. it's here 45 min 55 lb bags .


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## Drywaller

how much for the 50 lb bags ?Any dealers here in NH?Thanks


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## moore

Drywaller said:


> how much for the 50 lb bags ?Any dealers here in NH?Thanks


 rebel 20 . talk to him.


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## rebel20

Drywaller said:


> I tired out the 120 today and again mixes and has a great smooth consistency to it,It is very creamy like the Georgia Pacific sandable 90 I use all the time.
> 
> As some one else asked ,Where is this product sold ?And does it come in bigger bags?and what is the pricing on it ?
> 
> Thanks again for the samples,I would consider using it more if it where in my area,Quality is a big concern of mine and if this product could help overall,It would be used by me.


 
As you know pricing is not allowed I will shoot you a pm. A little info for everyones understanding, our warehouse is in Lexington NC. I run this company from here in Germany with my partners in the US. As I have 2 other companies here in Europe my decision was to stay here. Besides everyone has seen my wife on the post a real Pic of yourself and this was the main reason. I have been here since 1987 but I am 100% american and as my family has been in the drywall business since the early 60's with over 200 years expierence together I tend to be partial to the American drywaller and if a new product makes a drywall tradesmans life easier and more profitable I will do my best to get this product on the market.. I spent a year and a half traveling back and forth every 6 weeks training my partners. and setting up the business.If anyone is interested just go to your local supplier and have them order it. We have not dealt with every Supplier in the US but working on it. Most are giving us the answer when the Drywall guy comes and askes for it we will stock it. Like any new product on the market. One of our other considerations was to look for new investors and start up our own supply companies. The 120 was introduced in the 11lb bag we expect middle to end of year to have the 55lb. We decided on the 11 as when we brought out the 45min everyone wanted the smaller bags this is the reason for introducing the 11 first. the 45min 55lb is still available. One other is to introduce sometime this year the 90min also. This product with enough interest can be produced from 20min to 120min. possibly to 240 Our goal is also to introduce the plasters based on the vario concept and the finish muds along with the vario. In long term acoutical products as seen in the thread basement and greenboard. Anything to make it easier and profitable for you guys.

Rebel


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## M T Buckets Painting

Rebel, I used your product over the weekend. I was quite happy with the results. It seemed to mix up a little on the stiff side, although I was amazed at how smoothly it seemed to tool off. It also sanded much easier than other setting compounds that I am used to. I did not use it without tape but, I used it for some prefilling with exceptional results.

The bottom line is that I was thrilled with the performance of the product and I am anticipating being able to find it on the shelves of stores in my area.

Thank you,
M T Buckets Painting


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## Tim0282

Say, MT, just buy a pallet from them direct. Save the middle man upcharge.


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## betterdrywall

Still have my samples,, was going to use on this quickie wall last week, ran off and forgot to load it in the work truck,, next chance I get I will use it and take some pictures as well, and I am terrible with pictures!


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## Saul_Surfaces

ordering a pallet is pretty straight forward. when I ordered mine, it was a matter of giving them a shipping address, being told the price for materials and shipping, paying, and waiting for the pallet to show up pretty much on time (truck carrier was delayed beyond their quoted delivery time, but that might be normal anywhere for a single pallet)


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## rhardman

We did some testing this week and I brought out Gary's Vario to see how it handled.

Nice product! Finely ground and mixes very easily and smooth.

I think it might be accepted better if it was marketed as a high quality "high build" filler first and the "no tape needed" made an after statement. Primarily marketing it as a substitute for tape is going to slow down it's acceptance _in my opinion_. 

It's a very well formulated product.

Using it on the test site I still added mesh behind it for 2 reasons. First, it goes against my grain not to have some sort of bridging material over the joint and secondly it wasn't my job so if something crazy happened, massive settling, earthquake or whatever and the wall cracked, it could be found that no tape was used. This could have a negative effect on my buddy's reputation so I didn't want to risk it.

The industry makes a ton of money selling paper tape and all the tools are geared for it. I think the Vario is an excellent product but even though it's faster, it takes away from the money the big players are making (by selling tape). I'm afraid it will always be an uphill climb trying to gain major market acceptance. In addition, there is no motivation for the various localities to change their specifications. They all use USG documentation as their standard and if they need to do more work to make Vario acceptable, they will see it as extra effort without any specific benefit for them. I've been through this with governmental agencies and NPI (New Product Introduction) before. I had a high tech tool called a digital inclinometer that I was demonstrating on the Beacon Hill Tunnel project in Seattle. The engineer looked at me and said,"Yes Rick, I can see it's a better tool and is much easier to use and more efficient. But I'm still not going to spec it in." I asked why and he said, "There's no reason for me to take a risk."

LinkedIn has a group called "CSI" that writes building code specification and changes. They have another group for introducing new products to the construction industry that you (Gary) might want to contact.

*As far as a high build, high quality 1st coat filler, I think it's the best I've ever used. In fact, I hear it's so good...I don't even need to use tape if I don't want to!* :thumbup:


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## Drywaller

Taped out a garage to a ranch house I recently finished for a friend of mines house he is flipping,Used the rest of the 120 samples and did not use any tape.
Told my friend about the compound that does not require tape and he said go for it ,Its only a garage,So I did.We will see how it holds up.It will not have a lot of heat in the garage and it is all 5/8".Should be a good test. I am pretty confident it wont sell for a while so I could keep a eye on it.
I felt very strange putting compound on the joints without any tape,I did put mesh on the butt joints and chamfered them out real well like I do when using mesh and durabond.
Thanks Again Gary for the samples.


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## JustMe

My 120 minute sample rebel sent seems to have disappeared somewhere, when I looked for it the other day to test out on some patching. I'm hoping I didn't leave it on a previous job site where I'd thought I could especially have a use for it, but didn't need to in the end.

I used up the rest of my 45 minute sample the other week on 3 smaller hole patch jobs that I wanted fast setting with minimal bubbling preferred - 2 of the 3 patches were on already painted surfaces. It came through nicely. After putting some Vario on the backside of some tapes and skimming a coat of Vario on them, and after an hour waiting after mixing to let it set up well enough - I did some other things in the meantime - I was able to put a finish coat on the patches with a fairly thin layer of all-purpose mud. Painters said they'd sand the areas out, since the patches seemed decent and there wasn't a lot to sand. So the Vario saved me a few trips back. $ in the company's pocket.


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## Tim0282

I used it in an office a little over a year ago. Was there just the other day and looked it over real good. No cracks!


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## muddermankc

Sands like regular mud. Mixes nice,how much is it?????


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## Tim0282

A little more than .08 per pound. 11 pound bags and 55 pound bags.


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## moore

i love this stuff. i think it will do what they say it will. BUT what about the knockoffs . you know there coming. these low end products are bad enough as it is. vario has a good product. will the jack legs screw it up?


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## Tim0282

They always do their best to destroy a good thing.


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## SlimPickins

rhardman said:


> *As far as a high build, high quality 1st coat filler, I think it's the best I've ever used. In fact, I hear it's so good...I don't even need to use tape if I don't want to!* :thumbup:


If I didn't know better, I'd say that this was intended to be a testimonial...



I'm going to use some tomorrow...Rebel tells me you can paint over it after it sets, and I need to do just that Fortunately, it's in a painted fire-taped garage (I had the extreme pleasure of building these folks some cabinets...I LIKE building cabinets!"), and I think it will pass no matter what happens.


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## rebel20

rhardman said:


> We did some testing this week and I brought out Gary's Vario to see how it handled.
> 
> Nice product! Finely ground and mixes very easily and smooth.
> 
> I think it might be accepted better if it was marketed as a high quality "high build" filler first and the "no tape needed" made an after statement. Primarily marketing it as a substitute for tape is going to slow down it's acceptance _in my opinion_.
> 
> This concept we have gone over and over. The thing is Rick it's not only a filler it is also the finish coat. Because everyone thinks of a setting compound as only a filler. Where by it is an all purpose joint compound. In our next meeting I will bring this up thankyou.:yes:
> 
> It's a very well formulated product.
> 
> Using it on the test site I still added mesh behind it for 2 reasons. First, it goes against my grain not to have some sort of bridging material over the joint and secondly it wasn't my job so if something crazy happened, massive settling, earthquake or whatever and the wall cracked, it could be found that no tape was used. This could have a negative effect on my buddy's reputation so I didn't want to risk it.
> 
> This is completely understandable
> 
> The industry makes a ton of money selling paper tape and all the tools are geared for it. I think the Vario is an excellent product but even though it's faster, it takes away from the money the big players are making (by selling tape). I'm afraid it will always be an uphill climb trying to gain major market acceptance. In addition, there is no motivation for the various localities to change their specifications. They all use USG documentation as their standard and if they need to do more work to make Vario acceptable, they will see it as extra effort without any specific benefit for them. I've been through this with governmental agencies and NPI (New Product Introduction) before. I had a high tech tool called a digital inclinometer that I was demonstrating on the Beacon Hill Tunnel project in Seattle. The engineer looked at me and said,"Yes Rick, I can see it's a better tool and is much easier to use and more efficient. But I'm still not going to spec it in." I asked why and he said, "There's no reason for me to take a risk."
> 
> The Gypsum Association is the Standard allthough many seem to think it is only USG because they are the largest manufacture. All the manufactures make up the GA. An incert from the ICC International Code Council which produce the IBC and the IBR out of ESR1338 from the GA.
> 
> As Quoted
> 4,2.3.3 Joint Treatment: For the fire-resistive
> Assemblies in this report, taping and finishing of joints and
> fasteners is permitted to be omitted in the following cases:
> a. Where there is square-edge gypsum board or tongue-
> and-groove-edge (V -edge) gypsum backing board or
> gypsum sheathing.
> b. In single-layer applications on wood framed
> assemblies where joints fall over framing members.
> c. On inner layers and outer layers of multiple-layer
> wood-framed or steel-framed assemblies, where the
> joints of adjacent layers are offset from each other.
> 
> The interpretation of this is vague
> 
> Also the Rigips testing facilities according to the IAS which is the International Accredidation Service for Testing facilities is accredited These are under downloads on our site. I have done quite a bit of my homework. And your right its going to be a long hard and strenuous effort. But you have also expierenced this I am sure.
> 
> 
> 
> LinkedIn has a group called "CSI" that writes building code specification and changes. They have another group for introducing new products to the construction industry that you (Gary) might want to contact.
> 
> Thankyou for this info I will look into it
> 
> *As far as a high build, high quality 1st coat filler, I think it's the best I've ever used. In fact, I hear it's so good...I don't even need to use tape if I don't want to!* :thumbup:


 
Thanks for all the input here

rebel


----------



## carpentaper

i really becoming interested in this product. might have to find out how to get my hands on some.


----------



## rebel20

Another happy customer

Hello Gary,

Sorry for the delay, but I finally had a chance to do some work around the house. I used the Vario sample powder you sent, and this stuff is fantastic. It is very easy to use, and I don't hve any cracks in the ceiling this time.

It's a pleasure doing a job and knowing it won't need to be done again because the cracks don't come back.

Is there a local distributor in Mass or NH where I can purchase more of the Vario powder? I haven't been able to find any on line.

Thanks again, and sorry for the delay.


----------



## SlimPickins

Alright, I've had some more opportunity to use this product (although once again, only the 45....why does everything have to be done so darn quick?)

Product set up in the time frame specified. I added a little adhesive to account for very glossy paint, and had very little pinholing....one small area had super small pinholes, and I'm not complaining:thumbsup: When I went over it with light topping, I got a little bit of bubbling, but minimal compared to what it would have been with regular setting compounds. 

I'm still looking forward to working with the 120, if only everything wasn't in such a hurry. I see myself ordering some 45 in the bigger sacks sooner than later. I'd be happy to get my distributor to stock it for a percentage:laughing: Did someone say career in sales?


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Alright, I've had some more opportunity to use this product (although once again, only the 45....why does everything have to be done so darn quick?)
> 
> Product set up in the time frame specified. I added a little adhesive to account for very glossy paint, and had very little pinholing....one small area had super small pinholes, and I'm not complaining:thumbsup: When I went over it with light topping, I got a little bit of bubbling, but minimal compared to what it would have been with regular setting compounds.
> 
> I'm still looking forward to working with the 120, if only everything wasn't in such a hurry. I see myself ordering some 45 in the bigger sacks sooner than later. I'd be happy to get my distributor to stock it for a percentage:laughing: Did someone say career in sales?


Just to let you know Slim the adhesive was not necessary. Contrary to belief it will go over the paint without adhesive. I believe thats what your saying here you repaired a crack or hole already painted. I think I said in one of my posts its not your typical setting compound its an all purpose mud in a powder form it has bonding agents. As far as the pin holes and bubbles it would of been great to see some before and after pics of this. 
You know the saying pictures say a thousand words. :yes:
Thanks for this info though

rebel


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> Just to let you know Slim the adhesive was not necessary. Contrary to belief it will go over the paint without adhesive. I believe thats what your saying here you repaired a crack or hole already painted. I think I said in one of my posts its not your typical setting compound its an all purpose mud in a powder form it has bonding agents. As far as the pin holes and bubbles it would of been great to see some before and after pics of this.
> You know the saying pictures say a thousand words. :yes:
> Thanks for this info though
> 
> rebel


Hi Rebel, like others, I have troubles adapting to a totally new technology, _and_ I have trust issues. When a friend asks me to do a paying job for him, I want to guarantee for his sake that nothing unexpected happens to his job. Adding adhesive for glossy paint is just habit, and while it may not be necessary, it can't hurt for the sake of permanence. I will try and take some pictures next time I use the material (which may very well be this morning)


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Hi Rebel, like others, I have troubles adapting to a totally new technology, _and_ I have trust issues. When a friend asks me to do a paying job for him, I want to guarantee for his sake that nothing unexpected happens to his job. Adding adhesive for glossy paint is just habit, and while it may not be necessary, it can't hurt for the sake of permanence. I will try and take some pictures next time I use the material (which may very well be this morning)


Understandable was just letting you know. When we brought the mud here the first time, We used a half pallet running every test we could think of. 
But thats why I am asking for opinions here. Nobody believes a totaly new technology until they have tried it themselves. 

rebel


----------



## moore

I blocked in seams in closet with 120 five weeks ago . no tape . went by today , no cracks.  this stuff is tough .


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> Understandable was just letting you know. When we brought the mud here the first time, We used a half pallet running every test we could think of.
> But thats why I am asking for opinions here. Nobody believes a totaly new technology until they have tried it themselves.
> 
> rebel


So have you done a stress test where you taped joints in sheetrock, placed them across sawhorses, and seen how much weight it took to break the joint with the various methods? And, do you have results of these tests written down somewhere? 

I'm starting to dig the product, and I'm going to start using it more...it just depends on whose job it is, and whether it will just be my a$$ on the line or not....I have faith in it so far. 

What type of bonding agent is in it? I think I'd like a bunch more information if you have it to give.


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> So have you done a stress test where you taped joints in sheetrock, placed them across sawhorses, and seen how much weight it took to break the joint with the various methods? And, do you have results of these tests written down somewhere?
> 
> I'm starting to dig the product, and I'm going to start using it more...it just depends on whose job it is, and whether it will just be my a$$ on the line or not....I have faith in it so far.
> 
> What type of bonding agent is in it? I think I'd like a bunch more information if you have it to give.


Give me a day or two I have to translate them I can tell you at the uncg greensboro NC we did test for the architect in order for him to accept it we made a 12' 4' mockup with steelstuds and shook the heck out of it for 6 weeks the last test he wanted to see it crack and we twisted it back and forth at arms lenth to get it to crack and then it was hairline before this was around 10" of movement 10 times per week when he was there.

rebel


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> Give me a day or two I have to translate them I can tell you at the uncg greensboro NC we did test for the architect in order for him to accept it we made a 12' 4' mockup with steelstuds and shook the heck out of it for 6 weeks the last test he wanted to see it crack and we twisted it back and forth at arms lenth to get it to crack and then it was hairline before this was around 10" of movement 10 times per week when he was there.
> 
> rebel


That's awesome. 

Just going by "this stuff works" isn't in my nature, but if I can read some of that documentation I can make up my mind and proceed with confidence. Then I can work on getting the supply house to carry it, as well as the one down in the valley. As far as getting the locals to use it, that's going to take a presentation. There will have to be free food to get them to come:laughing:


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> That's awesome.
> 
> Just going by "this stuff works" isn't in my nature, but if I can read some of that documentation I can make up my mind and proceed with confidence. Then I can work on getting the supply house to carry it, as well as the one down in the valley. As far as getting the locals to use it, that's going to take a presentation. There will have to be free food to get them to come:laughing:


 
Nor is it my nature as I would not feel confident it putting it on any market If we had not done the tests at the uncg. even though it has been on the market here in Germany since 1985 I had only used it twice when it was sent to usa for testing in 2007. 

The hammer was during testing in greensboro they had a 90° temp diff and the structure of the auditorium shifted 2" ie the front of the building sank, thus leaving a heavy crack through the middle of the building. I will have to see if I have pics of it. Even the plaster columns cracked. We found minimal cracking of the Vario But it was not direct on the shift line so this could of been the reason. I only now I supplied the mud to fix everything after.

rebel


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> Nor is it my nature as I would not feel confident it putting it on any market If we had not done the tests at the uncg. even though it has been on the market here in Germany since 1985 I had only used it twice when it was sent to usa for testing in 2007.
> 
> The hammer was during testing in greensboro they had a 90° temp diff and the structure of the auditorium shifted 2" ie the front of the building sank, thus leaving a heavy crack through the middle of the building. I will have to see if I have pics of it. Even the plaster columns cracked. We found minimal cracking of the Vario But it was not direct on the shift line so this could of been the reason. I only now I supplied the mud to fix everything after.
> 
> rebel


Hopefully you understand that I wasn't trying to insinuate that you would sell a product you weren't confident in:thumbsup: Knowing the integrity of German engineering and ingenuity, one could almost take for granted the soundness of the product. It's a shame that such a brilliant country of people can't come up with better food though:jester: I mean _Sauerbraten_.....really?


----------



## rebel20

Got about 7 testers that have not gave me a response would appreciate it if you would get back with me.


Rebel


----------



## Tim0282

Hey Slim,
I have used a fair amount of Vario. Works great! As an "old schooler" it was hard for me to believe. But it does work! And if you are wanting to try it before you do joints. Try prefilling with it. The best fast set mud I have ever used. And it won't crack out. Did an office building a year ago or so. I was in there about a week ago. NO cracks. And we used it on flats and butts. We prefill around all of our showers. We cut around the flange because the showers are inconsistant and the carpenters won't fir them out. So you have an inch and a half gap sound them that varies from a half inch deep to nothing. Works perfect there. Sets up and is hard and sticks to the fiberglass. Hard to beat! You better get some or you'll be left in the dust!


----------



## SlimPickins

Tim0282 said:


> Hey Slim,
> I have used a fair amount of Vario. Works great! As an "old schooler" it was hard for me to believe. But it does work! And if you are wanting to try it before you do joints. Try prefilling with it. The best fast set mud I have ever used. And it won't crack out. Did an office building a year ago or so. I was in there about a week ago. NO cracks. And we used it on flats and butts. We prefill around all of our showers. We cut around the flange because the showers are inconsistant and the carpenters won't fir them out. So you have an inch and a half gap sound them that varies from a half inch deep to nothing. Works perfect there. Sets up and is hard and sticks to the fiberglass. Hard to beat! You better get some or you'll be left in the dust!


Hi Tim,

I've been using the 45 that Rebel sent (it's gone now) and I like the product. It performs as stated, and the only time I've seen it not do so, was under conditions that anyone in their right mind would have avoided. The job should have waited for warmer weather

Oh, and we do the tub-flange deal here too....I've been thinking about trying the M2Tech setting mud since it's mold and mildew resistant.

There's a good question for Gary....what's the water rating for the Vario?

Here's a question though, for anyone who's decided to use it for the tapeless system: Hanging looks to be a little more "complicated" to meet the specs of the product (ie. holding out from the angles). Any feedback on this?


----------



## Tim0282

We taped our angles... Just used it on flats and butts.


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Hi Tim,
> 
> I've been using the 45 that Rebel sent (it's gone now) and I like the product. It performs as stated, and the only time I've seen it not do so, was under conditions that anyone in their right mind would have avoided. The job should have waited for warmer weather
> 
> Oh, and we do the tub-flange deal here too....I've been thinking about trying the M2Tech setting mud since it's mold and mildew resistant.
> 
> There's a good question for Gary....what's the water rating for the Vario?
> 
> 95% water resistant when cured
> Story told to me by the Product Manager manufacture was they did a pool test the mudded 2 boards together and set it in a swimming pool the board fell apart before the mud. How long it took or pics he would not give me but hinted over 90 min. They also make a 99,9% green water resistant Vario. this is also on our list for future distribution.
> 
> 
> Here's a question though, for anyone who's decided to use it for the tapeless system: Hanging looks to be a little more "complicated" to meet the specs of the product (ie. holding out from the angles). Any feedback on this?


Now slim according to the GA you should not be slamming the boards together in the corners anyhow. there should be a 1/8 to 3/16 inch gap. But no one does this today. And I can say I did not pay attention to this in the 70's either. Since I have been using the Vario I leave a small Gap but I do not measure it. Just like a 1/8" gap on joints and butts no one does this. Get the board tight as possible is the motto.


rebel


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> 95% water resistant when cured
> Story told to me by the Product Manager manufacture was they did a pool test the mudded 2 boards together and set it in a swimming pool the board fell apart before the mud. How long it took or pics he would not give me but hinted over 90 min. They also make a 99,9% green water resistant Vario. this is also on our list for future distribution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now slim according to the GA you should not be slamming the boards together in the corners anyhow. there should be a 1/8 to 3/16 inch gap. But no one does this today. And I can say I did not pay attention to this in the 70's either. Since I have been using the Vario I leave a small Gap but I do not measure it. Just like a 1/8" gap on joints and butts no one does this. Get the board tight as possible is the motto.
> 
> 
> rebel


I've been giving a lot of thought to a new business model lately(hmm...I wonder why that is?), and the 99.9 water resistant vario sounds like something I could put in the mix. I'm going to start targeting the people with money, not just people who need drywall done.

As far as gaps, sometimes it's just harder to actually leave one, and you're right, everyone wants it tight because they dislike prefill and it just plain looks better. I imagine it would be even more impressive if you could have a perfect 1/8" gap at every joint.:yes:


----------



## rebel20

This is what I call an all purpose mud. Filled a 4"hole applied also to OSB Board and on Vinyl side filled a hole. guess the question about Vinyl bead is answered. The garbage can is an extra in the pic. Next test is how it holds up to the Rain supposed to storm tonight will get after pics to post.

Rebel


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Hopefully you understand that I wasn't trying to insinuate that you would sell a product you weren't confident in:thumbsup: Knowing the integrity of German engineering and ingenuity, one could almost take for granted the soundness of the product. It's a shame that such a brilliant country of people can't come up with better food though:jester: I mean _Sauerbraten_.....really?


I missed this when I read it Sauerbraten somebody try to make that in the us for you forget it only in the Stuttgart area. And they got many things here I can even eat. I am pretty picky. 

rebel


----------



## rebel20

Originally Posted by *SlimPickins*  
_Hi Tim,

I've been using the 45 that Rebel sent (it's gone now) and I like the product. It performs as stated, and the only time I've seen it not do so, was under conditions that anyone in their right mind would have avoided. The job should have waited for warmer weather

Oh, and we do the tub-flange deal here too....I've been thinking about trying the M2Tech setting mud since it's mold and mildew resistant.

There's a good question for Gary....what's the water rating for the Vario?_

_Slim here is the answer to your water question these are the after pics from 10 days of rain_

_Rebel_
_

_


----------



## betterdrywall

I may actually have to order some more ,,, Used up the samples on a bad patch and repair.. One of those homes that they should just call,,, Forever Crack House. 
I have to say I am pleased with the material..


----------



## rebel20

betterdrywall said:


> I may actually have to order some more ,,, Used up the samples on a bad patch and repair.. One of those homes that they should just call,,, Forever Crack House.
> I have to say I am pleased with the material..


Glad to hear ya got a chance to use it. I had heard through the grapevine your wife likes it too. 

Rebel


----------



## Tim0282

It's good stuff!


----------



## rebel20

Well we finally got a supplier in Canada, its a start, Hope to be able to get a few more for you guys in the US soon. We are working on it it's rough every supply yard seems to think it's great but we get the ol economy blah blah.

Rebel


----------



## JustMe

rebel20 said:


> Well we finally got a supplier in Canada, its a start, Hope to be able to get a few more for you guys in the US soon. We are working on it it's rough every supply yard seems to think it's great but we get the ol economy blah blah.
> 
> Rebel



This is great news. Thanks for your efforts in making it happen.

Btw: I didn't reply on how well I found the 120 minute because what you'd sent me disappeared - I may have left it on a jobsite where I'd thought I might use it, but ended up using what I had left of the 45 minute. We'll be ordering both once you get the Canadian supplier established.


----------



## SlimPickins

Had a good day with the Vario today, that's for sure. Used it on multiple separate areas, one, a blown out piece of cornerbead (metal), with a knockdown texture. Coated twice with Vario, while running around doing various other fixes, then flicked some Vario on it for the knockdown, and painted it....you can barely tell I fixed it. Another area, above a shower where there was water damage...cut out the old mud and tape, ran some glass in the hollow, coated with vario. Went back a little later while it was still green and sponged edges, still a little soft to the touch so went and made a phone call. Came back, sponged it just right, made some loose vario mix, dipped my hand broom in it and flicked it all over the wall...came back in a bit and knocked it down. Little while later caulked the joint at the tub, and went home for dinner. Went back 2 hours later and painted it....no problem, can't tell a patch was made. 

I'm sold on the stuff. I also rubbed it into some cracks (no v-cut, only because it's a temp cosmetic fix...they're removing the concrete driveway soon, and the house WILL crack again...might as well save the big fix for later). Product performed at least as good as stated, if not better. Now as for longevity, only time will tell.....but it was a breeze to work with, and painted fantastically.....no pock marks, and I found the stuff to be sandable to a good degree...as much as any other set mud.


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Had a good day with the Vario today, that's for sure. Used it on multiple separate areas, one, a blown out piece of cornerbead (metal), with a knockdown texture. Coated twice with Vario, while running around doing various other fixes, then flicked some Vario on it for the knockdown, and painted it....you can barely tell I fixed it. Another area, above a shower where there was water damage...cut out the old mud and tape, ran some glass in the hollow, coated with vario. Went back a little later while it was still green and sponged edges, still a little soft to the touch so went and made a phone call. Came back, sponged it just right, made some loose vario mix, dipped my hand broom in it and flicked it all over the wall...came back in a bit and knocked it down. Little while later caulked the joint at the tub, and went home for dinner. Went back 2 hours later and painted it....no problem, can't tell a patch was made.
> 
> I'm sold on the stuff. I also rubbed it into some cracks (no v-cut, only because it's a temp cosmetic fix...they're removing the concrete driveway soon, and the house WILL crack again...might as well save the big fix for later). Product performed at least as good as stated, if not better. Now as for longevity, only time will tell.....but it was a breeze to work with, and painted fantastically.....no pock marks, and I found the stuff to be sandable to a good degree...as much as any other set mud.


Thanks for the test slim I knew you would come around eventually

Gary


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> Thanks for the test slim I knew you would come around eventually
> 
> Gary


I'm starting to have the confidence in the product to really take it out there and test its limits (if it has any). I think I'll probably leave the final decision up to the person paying me, in those instances where it might be iffy, but I'll also probably throw in a "guarantee" clause of some sort. I can see the material really saving me some time in the long run.


----------



## Tim0282

As long as you mix it just right. And the butts are "V" cut 3/8-1/2inch. And the flats are left with a min. 1/8th inch gap. And you let the mud slake just the right amount of time. And you don't use a dirty bucket. And you don't use dirty water.

Don't get me wrong, it is great smooth pre-fill mud and first coat on beads. But if someone messes with the heat or any of the above is not done exactly, it will crack! 

Buyer beware!

I worked it and was convinced it was great mud.
But if you don't do EXACTLY as the directions state, it will crack without using tape! 

I have three houses to prove it.
Everyday I go back I find another cracked flat or butt. So in other words I failed to follow the directions EXACTLY! And it (I) failed!

So heed those directions exactly and give it your best shot! 
I am not here to bash a company! I am sorry if some see it that way. 
I have a house with 11,406 feet of rock that I did all of the flats and butts almost like the directions say. And I am taping broken flats and butts. And the house is painted and nearly trimmed. 
Now to gain back the confidence of the builder. That will be more difficult than fixing the cracks!


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Tim0282 said:


> As long as you mix it just right. And the butts are "V" cut 3/8-1/2inch. And the flats are left with a min. 1/8th inch gap. And you let the mud slake just the right amount of time. And you don't use a dirty bucket. And you don't use dirty water.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it is great smooth pre-fill mud and first coat on beads. But if someone messes with the heat or any of the above is not done exactly, it will crack!
> 
> Buyer beware!
> 
> I worked it and was convinced it was great mud.
> But if you don't do EXACTLY as the directions state, it will crack without using tape!
> 
> I have three houses to prove it.
> Everyday I go back I find another cracked flat or butt. So in other words I failed to follow the directions EXACTLY! And it (I) failed!
> 
> So heed those directions exactly and give it your best shot!
> I am not here to bash a company! I am sorry if some see it that way.
> I have a house with 11,406 feet of rock that I did all of the flats and butts almost like the directions say. And I am taping broken flats and butts. And the house is painted and nearly trimmed.
> Now to gain back the confidence of the builder. That will be more difficult than fixing the cracks!


I was discussing the system with a certain person, and the big one we seen is the spacing on the flats/butts, easy to obtain, just drive a nail/screw in side/edge of the bevell to maintain even gaps. But to convince a GC that you half to leave gaps , they will say, test it in another GC's house. Then with stand ups, you will slowly advance off the studs on long runs, so now 16 1/8 0/c ??????????? for framing????

I don't think any experienced taper is going to use a dirty bucket.IMO,,,,but when a manufacturer states clean water,,,,,we know what it means,,,,but do they mean the PH level, hard or soft water, What if it is sulfer water,and since I'm quoting tims post, I doubt he used dirty water. from what I have read of his post. He's experienced 

I have been playing around with it a bit, I like the Idea of pre filling with it b/c I hate durabond and sh1trock . just b/c of the principal of the product. we did coat some beads and our 1st drill/bucket mix (others were pan mixes) I think my labourer said it right, the product has TWO setting off points, we did screw up the mix (had lumps) but the bag came with french and german instructions. And us being the good english/french speaking Canucks we are, we understood the germen words better,,,,so we thought.

Still at experimental stages, 1st I'm testing it as a accelerator , we were not too keen on the sanding of it either, we were using 80 grit, it sanded like a typical hotmud.

When the kid asked me what I thought, I said" I like to control the product , not the product control me" it did set off way too fast, but still.....I'm not keen on hotmuds, though I played with them for years and some veneer plaster, we have no need for them with the size and controlled environments of our jobs. But I do take interest in this product due to it's potential.

We shall see.................................


----------



## Checkers

Finally got a chance to use my Vario samples due to my dumb arse mis-framing a closet. lol

Exhibit A









Said dumb arse framed directly off the ceiling assuming it was square, hung, taped, and painted it and installed bi fold which revealed the framing to be off quite a bit. As you can see in the photo it is off 5/8" in 36", lol.

I solved the problem by shimming the bead with a piece of 1/2" and using a laser level, corrected the bead back to nothing at the framing.
This seemed like the perfect opportunity to use some Vario, so I did.









Initially I wanted it to cook off as fast as possible and all I had was 120 minute so I got some boiling hot water and mixed up a pan. To start it mixed great, just like hot mud, but a little on the gummy side. The first coat came out great! You can definitely note a slight texture difference with the Vario as far as workability goes, but it's just as smooth as any other mud.









My second coat I mixed a pan with literally ice cold water from on my deck and it mixed like a dream and stayed as creamy as warm butter while I applied my second coat. Something I noticed is that the first coat did not have any air bubbles like hot mud normally develops, awesome! It also had not sagged out, despite being 5/8" deep in one spot, awesome! Once the final coat had set I buffed the edges with a rag and sprayed it with some can texture and viola! The patch was done! The Vario also did not flash through the paint, which is amazing considering that normal hot muds do. Overall it is a great product that I enjoyed using and will also use in the near future.

Thanks for the free sample Rebel and I plan to do further tests in the near future.


----------



## Mudslinger

....


----------



## rebel20

Tim0282 said:


> As long as you mix it just right. And the butts are "V" cut 3/8-1/2inch. And the flats are left with a min. 1/8th inch gap. And you let the mud slake just the right amount of time. And you don't use a dirty bucket. And you don't use dirty water.
> 
> Don't recall stating this as no one leaves a gap that large its literally 1/4" V cut which means 1/8" on each side of the Butt and at a 45°
> see pic
> Don't get me wrong, it is great smooth pre-fill mud and first coat on beads. But if someone messes with the heat or any of the above is not done exactly, it will crack!
> 
> Buyer beware!
> 
> I worked it and was convinced it was great mud.
> But if you don't do EXACTLY as the directions state, it will crack without using tape!
> 
> I have three houses to prove it.
> Everyday I go back I find another cracked flat or butt. So in other words I failed to follow the directions EXACTLY! And it (I) failed!
> 
> So heed those directions exactly and give it your best shot!
> I am not here to bash a company! I am sorry if some see it that way.
> I have a house with 11,406 feet of rock that I did all of the flats and butts almost like the directions say. And I am taping broken flats and butts. And the house is painted and nearly trimmed.
> Now to gain back the confidence of the builder. That will be more difficult than fixing the cracks!


This was my response.

Tim,


I want to apologize for the inconvenience that our mud has caused you. I was not aware that you had done three houses without Tape and all were cracking. I guess when I asked you to test with the box we should of said to you try only one room. We should have communicated with each other more before doing three houses. Unfortunately this is no excuse I am willing to send you a pallet of Mud for free if you still want to use it. This I hope will help to compensate some of your losses. I am still interested to find out exactly why the cracks are coming. Then I must get with the manufacture. Please send me photos. I also wanted to thank you for putting this on DWT, as I would have done this by Tuesday when I came back from the holidays, as I stated in the beginning good or bad. I was actually waiting from you as you are the user. We are an Honest Distributor and I won’t have it any other way or I will resign. I go to great lengths to try to keep myself involved in every bag that is sold and the results as this mud has been in use for over 25 years and I have only heard good from it, also I have used it myself here or I would not have imported it to the U.S. I have personally overseen the first test site the UNCG in Greensboro NC and it has been 4 years no call backs. As I take pride in what I do and if I don’t believe in something I would not market it. If you are willing to help we want to get to the source of the problem. This does not help us as well as the next guy if we don’t understand why, as it could be many factors and not only that which I had listed. If you took it that to say it was your fault then I apologize again, this was not my purpose at all. Those were basically the first things through experience what sometimes happens. If you do not here back from me immediately please have a little patience as today and Monday are a holiday here inGermany and I don’t have a lot of time with my family. I will have a Board of Directors meeting today per internet. And I or my VP will get back to you ASAP on this. I promise.





Keep me personally posted





Regards,





Gary


President


Euro Drywall Products Inc.,

I am in contact with tim per mail.


----------



## rebel20

2buckcanuck said:


> I was discussing the system with a certain person, and the big one we seen is the spacing on the flats/butts, easy to obtain, just drive a nail/screw in side/edge of the bevell to maintain even gaps. But to convince a GC that you half to leave gaps , they will say, test it in another GC's house. Then with stand ups, you will slowly advance off the studs on long runs, so now 16 1/8 0/c ??????????? for framing????
> 
> I don't think any experienced taper is going to use a dirty bucket.IMO,,,,but when a manufacturer states clean water,,,,,we know what it means,,,,but do they mean the PH level, hard or soft water, What if it is sulfer water,and since I'm quoting tims post, I doubt he used dirty water. from what I have read of his post. He's experienced
> 
> I doubt this also
> 
> I have been playing around with it a bit, I like the Idea of pre filling with it b/c I hate durabond and sh1trock . just b/c of the principal of the product. we did coat some beads and our 1st drill/bucket mix (others were pan mixes) I think my labourer said it right, the product has TWO setting off points, we did screw up the mix (had lumps) but the bag came with french and german instructions. And us being the good english/french speaking Canucks we are, we understood the germen words better,,,,so we thought. 2buck I belive we sent you for the 120 the instructions in english but what I am reading here you probably mixed the 120 in the pan
> If you had lumps most probabilty was after initial mix added more to mixture or put powder in first then water the 55lb bag you received was 45 min
> 
> Still at experimental stages, 1st I'm testing it as a accelerator , we were not too keen on the sanding of it either, we were using 80 grit, it sanded like a typical hotmud. This is interesting explain accelerator are you mixing it with bucket mud.
> 
> When the kid asked me what I thought, I said" I like to control the product , not the product control me" it did set off way too fast, 45 min mud how long give me a time frame here but still.....I'm not keen on hotmuds, though I played with them for years and some veneer plaster, we have no need for them with the size and controlled environments of our jobs. But I do take interest in this product due to it's potential.
> 
> We shall see.................................


Gary


----------



## rebel20

Checkers said:


> Finally got a chance to use my Vario samples due to my dumb arse mis-framing a closet. lol
> 
> Exhibit A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Said dumb arse framed directly off the ceiling assuming it was square, hung, taped, and painted it and installed bi fold which revealed the framing to be off quite a bit. As you can see in the photo it is off 5/8" in 36", lol.
> 
> I solved the problem by shimming the bead with a piece of 1/2" and using a laser level, corrected the bead back to nothing at the framing.
> This seemed like the perfect opportunity to use some Vario, so I did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Initially I wanted it to cook off as fast as possible and all I had was 120 minute so I got some boiling hot water and mixed up a pan. To start it mixed great, just like hot mud, but a little on the gummy side. The first coat came out great! You can definitely note a slight texture difference with the Vario as far as workability goes, but it's just as smooth as any other mud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My second coat I mixed a pan with literally ice cold water from on my deck and it mixed like a dream and stayed as creamy as warm butter while I applied my second coat. Something I noticed is that the first coat did not have any air bubbles like hot mud normally develops, awesome! It also had not sagged out, despite being 5/8" deep in one spot, awesome! Once the final coat had set I buffed the edges with a rag and sprayed it with some can texture and viola! The patch was done! The Vario also did not flash through the paint, which is amazing considering that normal hot muds do. Overall it is a great product that I enjoyed using and will also use in the near future.
> 
> Thanks for the free sample Rebel and I plan to do further tests in the near future.


Thanks for the post

Gary


----------



## JustMe

Tim0282 said:


> As long as you mix it just right. And the butts are "V" cut 3/8-1/2inch. And the flats are left with a min. 1/8th inch gap. And you let the mud slake just the right amount of time. And you don't use a dirty bucket. And you don't use dirty water.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it is great smooth pre-fill mud and first coat on beads. But if someone messes with the heat or any of the above is not done exactly, it will crack!
> 
> Buyer beware!
> 
> I worked it and was convinced it was great mud.
> But if you don't do EXACTLY as the directions state, it will crack without using tape!
> 
> I have three houses to prove it.
> Everyday I go back I find another cracked flat or butt. So in other words I failed to follow the directions EXACTLY! And it (I) failed!
> 
> So heed those directions exactly and give it your best shot!
> I am not here to bash a company! I am sorry if some see it that way.
> I have a house with 11,406 feet of rock that I did all of the flats and butts almost like the directions say. And I am taping broken flats and butts. And the house is painted and nearly trimmed.
> Now to gain back the confidence of the builder. That will be more difficult than fixing the cracks!


Tim,

Did you by chance use the 120 minute? Reason why I ask is that the 45 minute seems to have proved itself, at least in places like Germany. If you're getting cracking, I'm wondering if it might be the new 120 minute, which hasn't had a chance to prove itself as much yet.


----------



## M T Buckets Painting

I just used the vario 120 on a repair without tape. The house belongs to a relative. There is a crack that keeps appearing on the lid of the downstairs hallway. This crack first appeared about 1 year after the home was built. I have fixed this crack about 4 times and my buddy has fixed it 2 times. Obviously this is a structural issue. 
This time I pulled off what tape that I could scrape off. I V'd out the joint with a razor knife filled that sucker with vario 120. I made this a 3 coat operation even though I didn't have to. The touch up paint that I used is about 12 yrs old and stuck right to the vario.

I hate to say that it usually takes about 1 year for this crack to reappear. If anything will keep it from reappearing it will be vario.


----------



## chris

*hallways*



M T Buckets Painting said:


> I just used the vario 120 on a repair without tape. The house belongs to a relative. There is a crack that keeps appearing on the lid of the downstairs hallway. This crack first appeared about 1 year after the home was built. I have fixed this crack about 4 times and my buddy has fixed it 2 times. Obviously this is a structural issue.
> This time I pulled off what tape that I could scrape off. I V'd out the joint with a razor knife filled that sucker with vario 120. I made this a 3 coat operation even though I didn't have to. The touch up paint that I used is about 12 yrs old and stuck right to the vario.
> 
> I hate to say that it usually takes about 1 year for this crack to reappear. If anything will keep it from reappearing it will be vario.


 same issue at station if it stays away let me know.Been puttin in exp. bead


----------



## 2buckcanuck

rebel20 said:


> Gary


Actually ,the pan mixes were lump free, well the bucket mix was not, but I know it was me, it's just,,,, you think it would be the other way around, guess thinking back ,the 120 did pan mix nicer, but the 45 mixed well too in the pan.

Plus I gave your instructions to a Union rep, he took interest in it so I gave him the pamphlet. Those Union, Union boys buy the hour play with a lot of hot muds so.....

Accelerator......
many moons ago, when doing basements/small jobs we would prefill with a plaster of paris mud mix ,tape and coat in the same day with good results. but that mix can set off fast and be a pain in the you know what. We found durabond or sheeprock would cause a spit line or look like you put the flat tape on crease side out. Or what mesh tape looks like when it pops out without cracking. You may not see it buy eye, but when you shine a light down a joint , you will see a line spitting out,,,and sorry to report, we tried it as a accelerator on a wall.(prefill with vario, then with AP,tape and coat),,a spit line appeared,,,,but, I'm experimenting with things you did not intend it for, but you never know.....they said you could never sell a computer to a home owner market. then a long came the internet......and now theres Vario

Don't worry, I have a good place where to test your product, my sons building a house this summer so............:yes:


----------



## Tim0282

We were back at the house we finished a couple weeks ago using all Vario 120.
I am saddened to see they now say the 120 is not a proven formula. The 45 has been around for 25 years and proven. Sure wish I had realized that. Does not say that on the bag. I was told I should have used at least mesh tape on everything. Wow! The bag says "tapeless". That defined in my finite mind means without tape. So like an absolute idiot, I did! And now today I had three more flats cracked. I have taped just about all of the flats now. This is after I have one coat of primer and two coats of finish paint on everything. Fortunatly I had already taped the butts. They started cracking the day we were there skimming. I don't have a huge amount of time reparing the whole job. Although it is a house with 11,406 feet of rock in it. And I don't have a lot of material. What I have is a lot of explaining to do to this contractor that has been my customer for the last three years. The first year he payed me 120,000.00 to do his drywall. Last year he paid me just over 150,000.00! This year he has paid me just over 72,000.00. (that is material and labor on all three years) He trusted me... I trusted them. I lost... Buyer beware. It is hard to beat the old tried and true way of doing drywall. Don't intend to kill Vario here, but it will NOT work without taping the joints. Whether it is flats or butts. Sad to say! I wanted it to work!


----------



## JustMe

I wonder what the difference is between the 45 and 120 minute, that would allow for it to crack easier. Less polymer base? Maybe rebel will enlighten on that.


----------



## Tim0282

I don't know the difference between the 45 and the 120. I do know this mud is THE best fast set mud for fixing stuff over paint. It does not bubble and sticks great. Did some repair over painted and it is great. Also remembered an area in my shop I tried the 45 on nearly a year ago. No cracks and it looks great. No paint on it, just a couple coats of Vario 45. I tried an identical area in the shop with 120 first of this week. Today I saw a fine crack right in the center. So there must be a difference. Still say it is great for patch work over paint and prefill. Just use some mesh or Fibatape and it can't be beat. :thumbsup:


----------



## rebel20

The difference it the set time and nothiing else to my knowledge. I wll be contacting the manufacture tomorrow. Tim the pic's would help.

Gary


----------



## siddle

How can you paint a joint that has had two coats of compound after 4 hours? Can someone help?


----------



## SlimPickins

siddle said:


> How can you paint a joint that has had two coats of compound after 4 hours? Can someone help?


By using setting muds that actually dry in that time frame.


----------



## siddle

SlimPickins said:


> By using setting muds that actually dry in that time frame.


Will that do? Is that all? Thank you so much, SlimPickins!


----------



## SlimPickins

siddle said:


> Will that do? Is that all? Thank you so much, SlimPickins!


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 

Since we're in the Vario thread, I'll tell you that Vario is the best set mud I've used for jobs that need to be done in a hurry. In fact, I'm wishing right now I had a pile of it. I've got a painted area to skim today so I can have it done by tomorrow, and I KNOW the Vario wouldn't give me any headaches.


----------



## siddle

SlimPickins said:


> I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
> 
> Since we're in the Vario thread, I'll tell you that Vario is the best set mud I've used for jobs that need to be done in a hurry. In fact, I'm wishing right now I had a pile of it. I've got a painted area to skim today so I can have it done by tomorrow, and I KNOW the Vario wouldn't give me any headaches.


Hey, I was not sarcastic at all. I really meant it. Thank you again for your tips.


----------



## Cratter

Without reading through the thread, how can I get some Vario. Maybe a bag or 2 of the 45 minute? 

Willing to pay.


----------



## Tim0282

Rebel is the rep on this site.
http://www.edp-inc.net/index.html
This is his website and numbers where you can buy some.


----------



## moore

SlimPickins said:


> I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
> 
> Since we're in the Vario thread, I'll tell you that Vario is the best set mud I've used for jobs that need to be done in a hurry. In fact, I'm wishing right now I had a pile of it. I've got a painted area to skim today so I can have it done by tomorrow, and I KNOW the Vario wouldn't give me any headaches.


It is the bomb for repairs over paint. wish I had a pallet myself slim .


----------



## Tim0282

Well..... order a pallet. They'll send it right out. :thumbsup: A pallet is 180 - eleven pound bags.


----------



## SlimPickins

Tim0282 said:


> Well..... order a pallet. They'll send it right out. :thumbsup: A pallet is 180 - eleven pound bags.


But at $11/bag that's nearly $2000. I don't do enough volume to justify the expense. I wish they'd just get a hold of my local supply house and begin an aggressive sales campaign so I can just pick up a bag or three when I need it.

GTS Interior supply

http://www.gtsinteriorsupply.com


----------



## SlimPickins

SlimPickins said:


> But at $11/bag that's nearly $2000. I don't do enough volume to justify the expense. I wish they'd just get a hold of my local supply house and begin an aggressive sales campaign so I can just pick up a bag or three when I need it.
> 
> GTS Interior supply
> 
> http://www.gtsinteriorsupply.com


And I'd like a kickback for the referral too. :whistling2:


----------



## Cratter

SlimPickins said:


> But at $11/bag that's nearly $2000. I don't do enough volume to justify the expense. I wish they'd just get a hold of my local supply house and begin an aggressive sales campaign so I can just pick up a bag or three when I need it.
> 
> GTS Interior supply
> 
> http://www.gtsinteriorsupply.com


Can you just a bag or three from his website?


----------



## Tim0282

Shipping might beat you up.
I bought one pallet - 180 bags with shipping seemed like it was just over 1800.00.


----------



## SlimPickins

Cratter said:


> Can you just a bag or three from his website?


Tim's right, shipping works out to be almost 30% added cost, at least on the small orders. My supply house is a big enough chain that it's doable, it will just take a little convincing....they're not really all that cutting edge although they bring in new types of rock from the big manufacturers quite often.


----------



## rebel20

SlimPickins said:


> Tim's right, shipping works out to be almost 30% added cost, at least on the small orders. My supply house is a big enough chain that it's doable, it will just take a little convincing....they're not really all that cutting edge although they bring in new types of rock from the big manufacturers quite often.


There is 2 ways to do it slim either you give me the figures as how much per year or you guys in the northwest starthammering GTS that they call us If I don't have enough then they won't order it's called we will wait and see. I know there are enough guys in the northwest to go to GTS and have them order. 

Now unfortunatley for the high fuel surcharge we are constantly trying to get shipping prices down. The way I see it if there are a few guys in a area then order together. The post office is the best single bag price we have contacted them all. I am constantly on my shipping manager to get us better deals. volumn is the only way to bring down the shipping costs and for those guys out west it will be a little more expensive. that fuel surcharge again. to Iowa a pallet is approx. 10% of price and for Tim it was a little over 1700


By the way we have contacted GTS allready last year and the answer was when you have sold enough call us back this is the most reply we get. I have my VP calling every week around the country.


Gary


----------



## SlimPickins

rebel20 said:


> There is 2 ways to do it slim either you give me the figures as how much per year or you guys in the northwest starthammering GTS that they call us If I don't have enough then they won't order it's called we will wait and see. I know there are enough guys in the northwest to go to GTS and have them order.
> 
> Now unfortunatley for the high fuel surcharge we are constantly trying to get shipping prices down. The way I see it if there are a few guys in a area then order together. The post office is the best single bag price we have contacted them all. I am constantly on my shipping manager to get us better deals. volumn is the only way to bring down the shipping costs and for those guys out west it will be a little more expensive. that fuel surcharge again. to Iowa a pallet is approx. 10% of price and for Tim it was a little over 1700
> 
> Gary


Next time I'm in, I'm going to drop off the literature you guys sent with the sample, and maybe in the interest of getting the product on the shelf I'll even write a little testimonial. Who knows, they now carry FibaFuse because I kept poking them to stock it.


----------



## SlimPickins

SlimPickins said:


> Next time I'm in, I'm going to drop off the literature you guys sent with the sample, and maybe in the interest of getting the product on the shelf I'll even write a little testimonial. Who knows, they now carry FibaFuse because I kept poking them to stock it.


I went in to the supply house this morning and gave them the information on the product as well as a glowing testimonial. I was honest about my skepticism for tapeless application, but really pushed it for patching and regular hot mud application. Hamilton's product has been abysmal lately (and by lately I mean the last two years). Varying set times, hard chunks, and these f*&%ing glue-like blobs in the 40 and 90 minute mixes. The sticky blobs are a mess, and you basically have to pick them out by the dozens after the mud sets up before you can coat with regular compounds. If they start stocking it, I will buy Vario exclusively.....now you just need to come out with 5 and 20 minute batches to cover the gamut of required set times....although 10 minutes would be fine.....5 minute mud is a little sketchy.


----------



## rebel20

Carpentaper and macdry where are your results you guys ever try the Vario?
So I will be working on website this weekend for those of you who actually have pics would appreciate a few.

Tim would still be nice to get a few if you got any I will even post them on the web.

Out of the Tests found that the Vario is great for:
Prefill, Patches, Repairs over paint. not recommended for the tools at this time. Setting times need to be shorter than 120. 45 is good but most want less for what ever reason. as the other setting compounds you have to come back the next day to paint if you are painting. 

Most would like to buy if the suppliers would stock it. And Suppliers in these times don't want to stock unless you give them customers.

It is available direct but shipping to expensive.
I will discount this if anyone is interested and I will set a price tag for DWT users Budgets.


Gary


----------



## VANMAN

rebel20 said:


> As you know pricing is not allowed I will shoot you a pm. A little info for everyones understanding, our warehouse is in Lexington NC. I run this company from here in Germany with my partners in the US. As I have 2 other companies here in Europe my decision was to stay here. Besides everyone has seen my wife on the post a real Pic of yourself and this was the main reason. I have been here since 1987 but I am 100% american and as my family has been in the drywall business since the early 60's with over 200 years expierence together I tend to be partial to the American drywaller and if a new product makes a drywall tradesmans life easier and more profitable I will do my best to get this product on the market.. I spent a year and a half traveling back and forth every 6 weeks training my partners. and setting up the business.If anyone is interested just go to your local supplier and have them order it. We have not dealt with every Supplier in the US but working on it. Most are giving us the answer when the Drywall guy comes and askes for it we will stock it. Like any new product on the market. One of our other considerations was to look for new investors and start up our own supply companies. The 120 was introduced in the 11lb bag we expect middle to end of year to have the 55lb. We decided on the 11 as when we brought out the 45min everyone wanted the smaller bags this is the reason for introducing the 11 first. the 45min 55lb is still available. One other is to introduce sometime this year the 90min also. This product with enough interest can be produced from 20min to 120min. possibly to 240 Our goal is also to introduce the plasters based on the vario concept and the finish muds along with the vario. In long term acoutical products as seen in the thread basement and greenboard. Anything to make it easier and profitable for you guys.
> 
> Rebel


 When is it coming 2 the UK?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

VANMAN said:


> When is it coming 2 the UK?


The UK market would be good for you Rebel20, from what I read at the T&J site, they use a lot more hotmuds and plaster over there. I'm sure every UK member on this site would be willing to try your product. maybe your product could work in conjunction with the veneer plaster, no need to mesh the joints etc......

Just throwing my 2bucks worth out there


----------



## Tim0282

2buckcanuck said:


> The UK market would be good for you Rebel20, from what I read at the T&J site, they use a lot more hotmuds and plaster over there. I'm sure every UK member on this site would be willing to try your product. maybe your product could work in conjunction with the veneer plaster, no need to mesh the joints etc......
> 
> Just throwing my 2bucks worth out there


Where do I send the 2bucks?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Tim0282 said:


> Where do I send the 2bucks?


To moore's house, so we can throw a DWT party at his place. We just need Nathan to fix the calendar, so we can pick a date:whistling2:


----------



## rebel20

VANMAN said:


> When is it coming 2 the UK?


You need to get with your supplier he can contact Rigips direct.


----------



## carpentaper

*vario trial*

Here are some photos of a job i did last april.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157627570288443/


my wife finally helped me post photos of something.


----------



## Mikett

I have a few questions. How wide does a crack repair have to be? I repair alot of popcorn textured ceilings and i try to minimize the size of the repair if im not going to redo the whole ceiling. Only 1/4" wide or does it have to be like 1" wide for sanding the vario smooth?

If i do a butt joint over a joist or stud with moisture, either new green lumber or maybe water damaged repair that later dries and shrinks in size, will the butt joint ridge like tape butt joint can?

If im doing a repair and i saw the old drywall at a 45 angle instead of sawing straight plus chamfering later, the V will be wider than 1/4" since the chamfer will be all the way through on the sawn side of the joint. Is that okay?

Do you sponge clean all joints before applying vario or only the chamfered butt joints?

Do you ever get paint issues from painting over set up but still moist vario?


----------



## SlimPickins

Yes, hi there, I've never tried this Vario stuff you're talking about. I'd love to give it a shot if you can ship a pallet over here.:thumbsup:


----------



## rebel20

Mikett said:


> I have a few questions. How wide does a crack repair have to be? I repair alot of popcorn textured ceilings and i try to minimize the size of the repair if im not going to redo the whole ceiling. Only 1/4" wide or does it have to be like 1" wide for sanding the vario smooth?
> 
> If i do a butt joint over a joist or stud with moisture, either new green lumber or maybe water damaged repair that later dries and shrinks in size, will the butt joint ridge like tape butt joint can?
> 
> If im doing a repair and i saw the old drywall at a 45 angle instead of sawing straight plus chamfering later, the V will be wider than 1/4" since the chamfer will be all the way through on the sawn side of the joint. Is that okay?
> 
> Do you sponge clean all joints before applying vario or only the chamfered butt joints?
> 
> Do you ever get paint issues from painting over set up but still moist vario?


 
Ok guys I start geting back on here I have been on the road quite a bit just got back from Holland and am a bit tired so will check back on the weekend and answer everyones questions

rebel


----------



## Sycamorebob

OK i read all the replies in this thread and would like to ask:

1. YEA or NAY on using 45 min with NO TAPE

2. Yea or NAY on using 120 min WITH TAPE

3. were to buy????

THANKS:thumbup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Sycamorebob said:


> OK i read all the replies in this thread and would like to ask:
> 
> 1. YEA or NAY on using 45 min with NO TAPE
> 
> 2. Yea or NAY on using 120 min WITH TAPE
> 
> 3. were to buy????
> 
> THANKS:thumbup:


No to # one

#2, depends on what type taper you are, job your doing, or what country your from (too much explaining).... But yes you can

#3 any type hardware store


----------



## spacklinfool

Sycamorebob said:


> OK i read all the replies in this thread and would like to ask:
> 
> 1. YEA or NAY on using 45 min with NO TAPE
> 
> 2. Yea or NAY on using 120 min WITH TAPE
> 
> 3. were to buy????
> 
> THANKS:thumbup:


Yea to all, and you can order from me if in northeast..


----------



## thefinisher

need to make some 5 minute or at least 20 minute to be of real use to me.


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> No to # one
> 
> #2, depends on what type taper you are, job your doing, or what country your from (too much explaining).... But yes you can
> 
> #3 any type hardware store


Actually, I thought the 45 was the one that worked as stated, and the 120 had some issues?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> Actually, I thought the 45 was the one that worked as stated, and the 120 had some issues?


Forget about what I said, didn't realize this was a Vario thread, till just now







,,, thought we were talking hot mud:whistling2:

The 45 is still holding out on one job I did in town. Did all the joints in the closets with it. Guessing that's almost 2 years now:thumbup:

So my Baaaaaaaaa'd


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Forget about what I said, didn't realize this was a Vario thread, till just now,,, thought we were talking hot mud
> 
> The 45 is still holding out on one job I did in town. Did all the joints in the closets with it. Guessing that's almost 2 years now
> 
> So my Baaaaaaaaa'd


Sawrite mang, I'm beginning to forgive you :laughing:

Sycamorebob: Rumor has it that *if you follow drywall installation instructions explicitly* that the Vario 45 can be used as a tapeless system. However, it's going to cost more to hang the job (at least where I'm from). As a hot mud, the stuff is without a doubt the best I've ever used, but I'm too small time to get it shipped here (pallets would be the way to go).

I have heard on this forum that the 120 minute has not performed to expectations when used tapeless. I've used both with tape with fantastic results. I love the stuff.:thumbsup:


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