# Start My own Drywall Business



## kylemanley1

Hey guys, after starting out in this trade when construction was booming to struggling through the tough times that last few years i've come to a decision that i'm guessing most of you have made. The only way to get anywhere in this business if you're gonna stick with it is to be your own boss. Just wanted to see if I could get any pointers from you guys maybe save myself a few headaches. I'm comfortable with the labor end of things but trying my best to research all i can about business structures ( trying to decide whats best LLC or sole proprietor. thanks a bunch guys!


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## kylemanley1

BTW i live in a very small town in the olympic peninsula of washington state. have about 5-10 local drywall companies of which i have worked for on and off (you know whoevers got the work).


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## SlimPickins

I don't have any business advice for you, because I'm a terrible business-man. Figure out how you would like to conduct business and go for it, within the confines of the law (which are just the rules of the game, right?)

Do you want to get rich or just make a living?

Do you want to get all the business in your area and have a crew and trucks with your logo? 

What are goals for the business? What are your hopes and dreams? Do you like long walks on the beach with your kittens? (sorry, had to do it).

I like your area a lot, one of my favorite places in the country....I'd totally move there if my roots weren't so deep here:thumbsup:


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## JustMe

Going a bit off what Slim said:

What do you want to earn/day clear? 100.00, 300.00, ....?

If it's 300.00, 300.00+, then I'd look for the work that would give that kind of return, and start building my business in that direction - even if it took some time and you had to learn some things and invest in some things, and for a time you had to put up with lower $ days, to keep afloat.

Someone once said that when you're in business for yourself, you only have to work 1/2 the time, and that it was up to you to decide which 1/2 of the day, week that was. Nowadays, especially in a situation like yours, you might have to up that 1/2 a bit.

As for how to set up, an accountant might be able to lay it out for you best. Some might say that till you earn over X dollars clear in a year, sole proprietor might be best.

What I have going right now, that you could possibly consider - working for a company, while having a sole proprietor side line company. I earned about 20,000.00 side lining last year, which the accountant got down to about 90.00 taxes owing on it, through all the write offs I was able to legitimately throw at it for that year.

I really don't need a company for the side line work - just claim it, along with expenses, would be acceptable - but I've got some longer term plans that I want a registered company for.

I could piece work myself out to my company if I wanted. Or continue to go by the hour with them (with an hourly raise, as they wouldn't have to cover me with UI, holidays and the like), and put it through my own company. But not right now.
But maybe those could be options for you as well.


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## silverstilts

kylemanley1 said:


> BTW i live in a very small town in the olympic peninsula of washington state. have about 5-10 local drywall companies of which i have worked for on and off (you know whoevers got the work).


I think that is the way most of us start out working for someone then moving on doing our own business. When first starting out unless you are gonna be big from the get go I wouldn't advise being a corporation, too much red tape and money going out. A LLC listed as a sole proprietor would be the way to go. There are not so many rules to play by just do the paperwork get your certificate and you are on your way. Not hardly any expense out of pocket. No need to hire an accountant at extortion prices. As a sole proprietor you still have the protection on NOT BEING SUED PERSONALLY....they could only go after the business end of things not your personal bank accounts, vehicles, and most important your home.. Just think if something happened and not being incorporated some homeowner or general contractor (which legally can't hire you in the first place without the proper certificates) decides to sue you for some mundane reason and takes away everything you own? It would hurt not only you but perhaps your family and children if you are in that situation.. Start small get your business going build up a good reputation and before you know it not only will you find some GC that will be loyal to calling you, also homeowners and then others by word of mouth which is the best because your reputation will proceed you and make it that much easier for work coming in. Stop in and talk to GC when you see a project starting, chances are the job is already let out to some other sub contractor , but you make your presence known and they may just give you a shot at their next project. Be people friendly that is a must do don't always be just all business learn to talk about other things that may interest them. You have to learn to pick up small signals from people and act and expand on them, by doing this you manage to get on their good side it makes them feel good meaning things will have a tendency to lean your way.


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## SlimPickins

silverstilts said:


> Start small get your business going build up a good reputation and before you know it not only will you find some GC that will be loyal to calling you, also homeowners and then others by word of mouth which is the best because your reputation will proceed you and make it that much easier for work coming in. Stop in and talk to GC when you see a project starting, chances are the job is already let out to some other sub contractor , but you make your presence known and they may just give you a shot at their next project. Be people friendly that is a must do don't always be just all business learn to talk about other things that may interest them. You have to learn to pick up small signals from people and act and expand on them, by doing this you manage to get on their good side it makes them feel good meaning things will have a tendency to lean your way.


This is great advice, and you saved me all the typing. Initially I was going to talk about the people end of the business, which in the end is the most important aspect of running a successful business. 

You still have to work on the run-on sentences though :jester:


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## wrenchmonkey4

kylemanley1 said:


> Hey guys, after starting out in this trade when construction was booming to struggling through the tough times that last few years i've come to a decision that i'm guessing most of you have made. The only way to get anywhere in this business if you're gonna stick with it is to be your own boss. Just wanted to see if I could get any pointers from you guys maybe save myself a few headaches. I'm comfortable with the labor end of things but trying my best to research all i can about business structures ( trying to decide whats best LLC or sole proprietor. thanks a bunch guys!


LLC's protect your personal assets should anything ever go wrong (god forbid) whereas sole proprietorship's leave you responsible for any debts...
I'd go for the LLC. Up to you but I'd hate to see a guy lose his house, truck, and everything else on a failed venture.

A good source of promotional materials is vistaprint.com (Business Cards, Truck Logo Magnets, etc.) That's who I use.

Also if you need help designing a logo PM me, I have a B.A. in graphic design.

Good Luck Bro! :thumbsup:


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## JustMe

wrenchmonkey4 said:


> LLC's protect your personal assets should anything ever go wrong (god forbid) whereas sole proprietorship's leave you responsible for any debts...
> I'd go for the LLC. Up to you but I'd hate to see a guy lose his house, truck, and everything else on a failed venture.
> 
> A good source of promotional materials is vistaprint.com (Business Cards, Truck Logo Magnets, etc.) That's who I use.
> 
> Also if you need help designing a logo PM me, I have a B.A. in graphic design.
> 
> Good Luck Bro! :thumbsup:


LLC's can get costly for a startup, and if one is doing the work mostly all himself at the beginning, I don't know about how much the protection is really warranted till there's some cash flow. But then I live in Canada. I think our lawyer/person ratio is lower than the U.S. 

Do suppliers and the like ask for a personal guarantee from most new start ups down there? 

Some Googled LLC vs sole proprietorship pro and con articles: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&n...559.4j7j0j1.12.0.les;..0.0...1c.1.VE_nrq4u89I

As for Vista Print, I've read some not nice things about them, when I was checking around. Another Google article search: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&n...71.1707.7j9.16.0.les;..0.0...1c.1.lU6VWLAeHz0

But it sounds like you've gotten acceptable results from them so far.


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## JustMe

JustMe said:


> LLC's can get costly for a startup


Or are they really? You guys in the U.S. would know better. So I'll bow out of this one.


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## wrenchmonkey4

As for Vista Print, I've read some not nice things about them, when I was checking around. Another Google article search: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ne....1.lU6VWLAeHz0

IVE ORDERED FROM THEM TWICE BOTH BUSINESS CARDS AND MAGNETS FOR MY TRUCK
GOT GOOD PRODUCT, BUT THEN AGAIN I DESIGNED IT MYSELF.
THEY DO TRY TO UPSELL YOU ON OTHER ITEMS, SAY NO THANKS AND CHECK YOUR CART BEFORE CHECK OUT. READ THOSE NASTY REVIEWS- I WILL PROBABLY LOOK ELSEWHERE NEXT TIME JUST IN CASE. THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP


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## kylemanley1

So you can be a LLC, sole proprietor hybrid?


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## moore

kylemanley1 said:


> So you can be a LLC, sole proprietor hybrid?


 YES.. but that's your 2nd step..Your first step is general liability and workmans comp. No one will hire you without it.


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## silverstilts

SlimPickins said:


> This is great advice, and you saved me all the typing. Initially I was going to talk about the people end of the business, which in the end is the most important aspect of running a successful business.
> 
> You still have to work on the run-on sentences though :jester:


 Your right Slim... I need to realize to get to the point a little quicker eh? Thanks for the advise I will try to work on it.


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## silverstilts

JustMe said:


> Or are they really? You guys in the U.S. would know better. So I'll bow out of this one.


 No they are not costly around a hundred bucks that is cheap. That is doing it yourself without a lawyer. Do it online.. Just a few questions to answer. Just remember Sole Proprietor otherwise things will get complicated..


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## JustMe

silverstilts said:


> No they are not costly around a hundred bucks that is cheap. That is doing it yourself without a lawyer. Do it online.. Just a few questions to answer. Just remember Sole Proprietor otherwise things will get complicated..


Yeah, this was one of those times when I had to admit to knowing that I didn't really know. (That comment's especially for moore.) 

We don't have the LLC option in Canada.


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## JustMe

wrenchmonkey4 said:


> READ THOSE NASTY REVIEWS- I WILL PROBABLY LOOK ELSEWHERE NEXT TIME JUST IN CASE. THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP


Can't say it's true, as it didn't happen to me or anyone I know, but there seemed a # of comments when I was checking about charges made later to credit cards that didn't belong there. If so, maybe keep a lookout on your card statements.

Eg. http://www.hubbers.com/index.php/i-...rketing-and-adaptive-affinity-ltd-and-amazon/


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## SlimPickins

silverstilts said:


> Your right Slim... I need to realize to get to the point a little quicker eh? Thanks for the advise I will try to work on it.


Dude, I was totally playing with you. Your points were great, and got to them in just the right amount of time. We all have different writing styles, and I apologize for being a smart-ass. 

I just finished reading an article about the abusive nature of sarcasm....it was sad, because now I'm going to have to reinvent myself:laughing:


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## kylemanley1

Nah i appreciate the long answer, taking as much info and information i can get from you guys. i know nothing about running a business, but i know i can put out a good product


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## silverstilts

wrenchmonkey4 said:


> LLC's protect your personal assets should anything ever go wrong (god forbid) whereas sole proprietorship's leave you responsible for any debts...
> I'd go for the LLC. Up to you but I'd hate to see a guy lose his house, truck, and everything else on a failed venture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hate to split fine hairs here, are you saying we are not responsible for our own debts? May have understood the point you were trying to get across can you clarify it?


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## gam026

Theres not alot i can add that the guys above have stated. But if i can give some solid advise it is this. Dont get to big too fast. Iv been on my own with a partner for years and we have many contractors we do work for but we ot there over time. Its going great but it wasent at first. 

Cash flow is everything my friend. :yes: Don't worry about profits for the first year because it doesent matter, too a point. When we started we had 4 guys on payroll and 2 drywall crews. We landed a large contractor that paid every 30 days. Guess who got paid last. Me and my partner made good profits but we couldn't pay each other a cent for 3 months, until we got our cashflow up from our profits. Oh and dont get me started on taxes:blink:

Now things are easier but still stressfull at times. Like they said above, it depends on how you want to run your company and how big you want to get.


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## JustMe

gam026 said:


> Cash flow is everything my friend. :yes:


That can be a problem, especially when you're living paycheck to paycheck. Adding in some smaller side type jobs that pay right after they're done could be good, to go with the work that doesn't pay for 30+ days after being finished.

I did do a big colonial style house side job last year that the owner allowed me to drag out some, as he was involved in the building of it himself a lot, and wasn't in a rush, being tied up so much with his hourly job. I got him to pay progress payments on that, in part because I didn't want him giving me possible problems with dragging out or not paying a lump sum at the end.
Something like that can work out well, for cash flow.


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## gam026

JustMe said:


> That can be a problem, especially when you're living paycheck to paycheck. Adding in some smaller side type jobs that pay right after they're done could be good, to go with the work that doesn't pay for 30+ days after being finished.
> 
> I did do a big colonial style house side job last year that the owner allowed me to drag out some, as he was involved in the building of it himself a lot, and wasn't in a rush, being tied up so much with his hourly job. I got him to pay progress payments on that, in part because I didn't want him giving me possible problems with dragging out or not paying a lump sum at the end.
> Something like that can work out well, for cash flow.


Oh yes it can. It's nice when contractor pay early or you can get a job that pays right away. Years ago when I worked through the dwc I got paid every week. But most contractor pay in 30 or 60 day terms around here. 

Taking it slow is key like side jobs on your own to begin. It can build up your cash flow while still making a living during reg work.


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## moore

JustMe said:


> Yeah, this was one of those times when I had to admit to knowing that I didn't really know. (That comment's especially for moore.)
> 
> We don't have the LLC option in Canada.


 
:blink:OK?


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## JustMe

moore said:


> :blink:OK?


Here: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f2/how-teach-journeyman-when-theyre-not-one-3598/index2/#post67831


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## moore

moore said:


> YES.. but that's your 2nd step..Your first step is general liability and workmans comp. No one will hire you without it.


 Most g/cs will ask for certificates of insurances.
h/os not so much. 


br549..


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## DLSdrywall

I do a lot of side jobs that are registered, as of January i will need an idependant operator card(WSIB) Now is it worth paying it and working for these companies, or is it gonna cause me more hassle then anything else paying that too along with guys, material, taxes, H.S.T. Might as well be volunteer. Does anyone know what the percentage is that has to be paid out and is there a hourly figure to pay the difference I charge 35$ an hour plus materials, plus applicable taxes. Does that mean i have to charge 40$ just an example??:blink:


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## gam026

DLSdrywall said:


> I do a lot of side jobs that are registered, as of January i will need an idependant operator card(WSIB) Now is it worth paying it and working for these companies, or is it gonna cause me more hassle then anything else paying that too along with guys, material, taxes, H.S.T. Might as well be volunteer. Does anyone know what the percentage is that has to be paid out and is there a hourly figure to pay the difference I charge 35$ an hour plus materials, plus applicable taxes. Does that mean i have to charge 40$ just an example??:blink:


You would charge 35 plus hst. Contractors pass the hst along so it really doesn't matter. But keep In mind workers comp, insurance, ect.


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## 2buckcanuck

DLSdrywall said:


> I do a lot of side jobs that are registered, as of January i will need an idependant operator card(WSIB) Now is it worth paying it and working for these companies, or is it gonna cause me more hassle then anything else paying that too along with guys, material, taxes, H.S.T. Might as well be volunteer. Does anyone know what the percentage is that has to be paid out and is there a hourly figure to pay the difference I charge 35$ an hour plus materials, plus applicable taxes. Does that mean i have to charge 40$ just an example??:blink:


I think it might be 8% (hear say) so eight cents on every dollar. But don't get hurt, the rate goes up.

G man makes good money, without even spotting a single screw, 13% HST (value added tax), 8% comp, 35 % income tax is 56% of your pay. Then if you factor in hidden taxes on every day things, like gas for example,, makes you wonder why we work eh'. Especially when some clowns still offer 10 or 20 bucks a hour:blink:

All numbers ball park figures:whistling2:


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## Mudshark

Sometimes I think of the song by the Steve Miller Band - Take the money and run. :whistling2:


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## DLSdrywall

2buckcanuck said:


> I think it might be 8% (hear say) so eight cents on every dollar. But don't get hurt, the rate goes up.
> 
> G man makes good money, without even spotting a single screw, 13% HST (value added tax), 8% comp, 35 % income tax is 56% of your pay. Then if you factor in hidden taxes on every day things, like gas for example,, makes you wonder why we work eh'. Especially when some clowns still offer 10 or 20 bucks a hour:blink:
> 
> All numbers ball park figures:whistling2:


When in doubt over bid as long as i have my day job lol :whistling2:


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## DevineDrywall

undefined said:


> kylemanley1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW i live in a very small town in the olympic peninsula of washington state. have about 5-10 local drywall companies of which i have worked for on and off (you know whoevers got the work).
> 
> 
> 
> I think that is the way most of us start out working for someone then moving on doing our own business. When first starting out unless you are gonna be big from the get go I wouldn't advise being a corporation, too much red tape and money going out. A LLC listed as a sole proprietor would be the way to go. There are not so many rules to play by just do the paperwork get your certificate and you are on your way. Not hardly any expense out of pocket. No need to hire an accountant at extortion prices. As a sole proprietor you still have the protection on NOT BEING SUED PERSONALLY....they could only go after the business end of things not your personal bank accounts, vehicles, and most important your home.. Just think if something happened and not being incorporated some homeowner or general contractor (which legally can't hire you in the first place without the proper certificates) decides to sue you for some mundane reason and takes away everything you own? It would hurt not only you but perhaps your family and children if you are in that situation.. Start small get your business going build up a good reputation and before you know it not only will you find some GC that will be loyal to calling you, also homeowners and then others by word of mouth which is the best because your reputation will proceed you and make it that much easier for work coming in. Stop in and talk to GC when you see a project starting, chances are the job is already let out to some other sub contractor , but you make your presence known and they may just give you a shot at their next project. Be people friendly that is a must do don't always be just all business learn to talk about other things that may interest them. You have to learn to pick up small signals from people and act and expand on them, by doing this you manage to get on their good side it makes them feel good meaning things will have a tendency to lean your way.
Click to expand...

 That sure sounds like some very legit advice, well spoken as well! .... I am also ready to "stop talking about it and just do it", im 34 and have been in the trade over half my life (its in the blood), its all i have ever known! The only job ive ever had! And i take a lot of pride in what i do, since i was a teenager hanging on the weekends, after school and summers seeing the kind of money my uncles and brother were making ( hanging 2 -250 sheet houses in a weekend ) back then they were getting 8-10 bucks a board making a grand in 2 days!!! Yea that started a fire in me right away!! And since i have worked my ass off!! everyday i could make money i would! Sometimes its crazy money and sometimes it was wtf money, i take pride in everything i do! And have to be the best at whatever i do, games, hobbies, my job... And now i have perfected my skill and im ready to make all of the money instead of making someone else more money! I dont want to grind it out till i die! Plus i have 2 sons that i want to be able to give options to like i never had and also have something to leave them! I just wanna be able to help them have a secure future! .... I have the trade end down but honestly im unsure of how to go about putting guys on and finding them work to keep them plus ive only had to worry about myself and my quality, now im gonna add stress of weather my other guys are gonna show and do good work and be respectful and what not idk... It seems like a catch 22 to me a bit?? But again im ready to just do it! Where do i start though?


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## chris

DevineDrywall said:


> That sure sounds like some very legit advice, well spoken as well! .... I am also ready to "stop talking about it and just do it", im 34 and have been in the trade over half my life (its in the blood), its all i have ever known! The only job ive ever had! And i take a lot of pride in what i do, since i was a teenager hanging on the weekends, after school and summers seeing the kind of money my uncles and brother were making ( hanging 2 -250 sheet houses in a weekend ) back then they were getting 8-10 bucks a board making a grand in 2 days!!! Yea that started a fire in me right away!! And since i have worked my ass off!! everyday i could make money i would! Sometimes its crazy money and sometimes it was wtf money, i take pride in everything i do! And have to be the best at whatever i do, games, hobbies, my job... And now i have perfected my skill and im ready to make all of the money instead of making someone else more money! I dont want to grind it out till i die! Plus i have 2 sons that i want to be able to give options to like i never had and also have something to leave them! I just wanna be able to help them have a secure future! .... I have the trade end down but honestly im unsure of how to go about putting guys on and finding them work to keep them plus ive only had to worry about myself and my quality, now im gonna add stress of weather my other guys are gonna show and do good work and be respectful and what not idk... It seems like a catch 22 to me a bit?? But again im ready to just do it! Where do i start though?


 You start at 6 am for a long time, and keep doin what you doing!


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## prwint

kylemanley1 said:


> Hey guys, after starting out in this trade when construction was booming to struggling through the tough times that last few years i've come to a decision that i'm guessing most of you have made. The only way to get anywhere in this business if you're gonna stick with it is to be your own boss. Just wanted to see if I could get any pointers from you guys maybe save myself a few headaches. I'm comfortable with the labor end of things but trying my best to research all i can about business structures ( trying to decide whats best LLC or sole proprietor. thanks a bunch guys!


I have had my own drywall contracting business for 16 years now. Sole proprietor is how I started out, and I would suggest you do the same. The biggest struggle I had in the early years was that I had to be on tools all day and I still had to make time to price jobs. Before long you'll find you're working day and night. During the day you're pushing the trowel or a screw gun and at night pushing the buttons on a calculator pricing jobs. Eventually, I developed an app. This app removes the need for you to go back to your home-office to produce quotes. Just bring your iPad or iPhone to the jobsite and enter your board count straight into the device. If you have customized your company settings, the app will produce professional looking, accurate quotes and material lists that you can email to your customer or supplier while you walk back to your truck. It is extremely simple to use, and it is designed with guys like you in mind. You can download a 30 day free trial from the app store and after that it's only $9.99 a month. I've been a residential drywaller for 30 years and I designed it personally. If you think like a drywaller, it will be completely intuitive to use. Personally I have found it extremely valuable in keeping me organized as well. It will take you from first contact with your customer all the way through to final billing. Check it out at www.thirdarmquotes.com 
Good luck in your ventures!


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## [email protected]

TAXES,TAXES,TAXES!!!!!! Make sure if you hire people you are smart with the withholding taxes. Make sure you set it up right. If not, you will see little notices in the mail and the snowball will start. It can take multiple years for that to catch up with you. It doesn't seam huge but it's beyond huge. Get with a cpa and do it right. It's costly, and that's one reason new contractors think they're boss is getting so rich. They don't see the true cost of it all. And workman's comp is a fun bill each month. Find that as well. A soul proprietor can lose their butt with an accident and no work comp.


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