# Fair Warning



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I found out today A home I finished up In November still has no paint.The painter won't start till all the trim is up.[The h/o is doing the trim work themselves]
I told the h/o when I walked out ,You need to seal this board Asap.
I spent alot off effort to keep your home dry while I was here. 

I walked out of a home today [no heat] same thing..I went To extremes to dry out my work and keep the house dry..space heaters ,dehumidifier 24-7...electric heat at night.
I asked the h/o when the painters were going to start..They say there doing the project out of pocket so it may be A few months
I said no! You can't do that ..This board needs to be sealed. Atleast a prime coat soon..Same deal,, she says the painters wont start till the trims on.:blink: 

The production homes I do The painters walk in within days for there prime coat ,,then the trim goes up and the painters come back for the colours.

The painters I speak of are not spray. So why do they need the trim on? Just prime the damn thing .. Then you can take your own sweet time after that. Why wait for the board to turn yellow??

I guess my point is..I like the steady pace a g/c runs his jobs .:yes:
Home owners are a pita to deal with at times


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Were getting more and more painters that don't paint until the trim is on now. I'm like you, I don't like it. The trimmers bash everything up, and Like you said, it should get sealed

If I remember right (and I just asked a GC why they do that a few months ago). I guess it saves them time on the trim. I think some spray the trim, but others claim it's easier to cut the trim if the walls are Not primed first. When we think of painters, we think of them painting our walls. But I heard (hear say) that walls are straight forward, and are 30% of their work. It's the doors and trim that eat up their most time (70% of the work). So guessing it's easier to cut in on finished trim by means of the wall, instead of the other way around


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

I can't see any reason not to prime first regardless of painters system. I've done trim different ways. Finish paint walls install trim that has had one coat sprayed, caulk and finish coat. Prime walls , install trim and spray all trim then cut walls in and finish paint walls etc......... No reason not to prime first right after all taping is finished .


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Unless you're going to use Kilz or Binzer or something like these 3 months or more down the road priming should be mandatory upon completion of taping imo.

I also highly stress getting primed asap. Had one job years ago where the h/o's didn't prime until one year later with regular flat latex and tried to blame me when absolutely everything flashed like a sore thumb. They had a wood stove going in there too.:blink: It was kind of fun telling them to go f*ck themselves.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> I can't see any reason not to prime first regardless of painters system. I've done trim different ways. Finish paint walls install trim that has had one coat sprayed, caulk and finish coat. Prime walls , install trim and spray all trim then cut walls in and finish paint walls etc......... No reason not to prime first right after all taping is finished .


 My thoughts are the same..:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> I can't see any reason not to prime first regardless of painters system. I've done trim different ways. Finish paint walls install trim that has had one coat sprayed, caulk and finish coat. Prime walls , install trim and spray all trim then cut walls in and finish paint walls etc......... No reason not to prime first right after all taping is finished .


I agree,,,, but the hard part is to get the painter to agree with you:whistling2:

Guess other reasons are the painter has to stop what he is doing for one day, just to prime a house. For scheduling purposes, they just want to start and stay, less trips. Gives the GC the option who to start first also, the trimmer or the painter, depending on who is busy.

I always use to hear "when can the painter start", but not no more, it's always "when can I order the trim so the trimmer can start"


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

You boys should include priming in your quotes. I spray all my primer myself regardless who does the paint. But that's usually me also. Just a thought .


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

jcampbell said:


> I can't see any reason not to prime first regardless of painters system. I've done trim different ways. Finish paint walls install trim that has had one coat sprayed, caulk and finish coat. Prime walls , install trim and spray all trim then cut walls in and finish paint walls etc......... No reason not to prime first right after all taping is finished .


Right on :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Yes the board should be primed fairly soon after taping for several reasons, Dust control, Harder surface but painting board before the trim is like eating jam first then dry toast last.............In nz anyway.

Its different here, Painters want to walk in to a house, Bare board and trimmed out, Why you ask???? Becouse the trim needs all the nail holes filled and sanded doesnt it :yes: Our windows are wooden framed and need holes filled as well, So if you have filled and sanded the trim then it needs sealed, Sealing walls with no trim, Then filling the trim holes and sealing the trim is double handling, You can just spray prime all the walls and trim in one hit, Or brush, Its primer out once.........Prime everything................Sand everything smooth...............Then out with caulking gun for the trim edges against the wall, Sh!t, This is to be continued ok.........I have a demanding two year old wanting dad.............Man i cant post much these days. Back later gentleman :yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

So, To recap, Tapers dont want to start taping a house but not do a few rooms or seams, Only to have to tape them later on when your doing second coat, Thats just a PITA isnt it, Same for painters, They dont want to prime just board, Then the trimmers come in, Then they have to seal the trim work after that, Yes some trim is pre sealed, But its not very good and as i said the nail hole filler needs primed as well (I have use all the tubs of filler known, And guess what, Tapers all purpose mud is the best, Easy to sand, Low shrinkage)

We want to get our bazookas, banjos, supertapers out once, Painters want to get there sprayers, rollers, brushes with primer out once as well.

And as for your question regarding edge of trim and painting 2buck, Well 99% of painters here will prime everything, Then 2 coats of ceiling flat, then 2 coats of wall colour up the side of the door trims, Then either brush or small roller the face of the trim.

Personally i think thats sub standard total utter lazy ugly CRAP PAINTING, I have twisted around my own system, I spray finish all the trim and the edges of the trim, Then yes, Its very easy to cut in down the edge of the trim onto the WALLS ONLY, Looks great.

Other painters think im mad..............Probably am...........Economic reasons make them do it, I still think it looks awful, My customers like what i do, Im employed with a difference to others so thats all good as far as im concerned, I hate painters as much as you tapers even though i am one.

Currently i have a team of 3 painters following behind me and they use little foam paint rollers on the trim, Looks horriable, The edges are yuck......But they are getting away with it............It works for them i guess. Still p!sses me off though :furious:


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

You guys act like it takes all year to trim a house. The sheetrock will be just fine :yes:. It is much easier for the painters to paint after the trim is on and honestly it doesn't make much difference on how the final product turns out if it sits for a couple weeks. Most painters around here wait until trim so they can prime it all then they will spray the first coat of color, then spray the finish on the trim so they can cut in easier.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

thefinisher said:


> You guys act like it takes all year to trim a house. The sheetrock will be just fine :yes:. It is much easier for the painters to paint after the trim is on and honestly it doesn't make much difference on how the final product turns out if it sits for a couple weeks. Most painters around here wait until trim so they can prime it all then they will spray the first coat of color, then spray the finish on the trim so they can cut in easier.


How about when the homeowner says I got paint with primer in it So I don't need to prime.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

cazna said:


> Yes the board should be primed fairly soon after taping for several reasons, Dust control, Harder surface but painting board before the trim is like eating jam first then dry toast last.............In nz anyway.
> 
> Its different here, Painters want to walk in to a house, Bare board and trimmed out, Why you ask???? Becouse the trim needs all the nail holes filled and sanded doesnt it :yes: Our windows are wooden framed and need holes filled as well, So if you have filled and sanded the trim then it needs sealed, Sealing walls with no trim, Then filling the trim holes and sealing the trim is double handling, You can just spray prime all the walls and trim in one hit, Or brush, Its primer out once.........Prime everything................Sand everything smooth...............Then out with caulking gun for the trim edges against the wall, Sh!t, This is to be continued ok.........I have a demanding two year old wanting dad.............Man i cant post much these days. Back later gentleman :yes:


U CAN'T use drywall primer on wood!


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

jcampbell said:


> U CAN'T use drywall primer on wood!


And.....how bad are the trimmers that they are destroying ur work? Ur there are always a ding here and there but not that much of a big deal? Once again ... I do all my own tape paint trim etc etc etc. I don't work in the contract world anymore. I know it does suck!!!!!!


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

jcampbell said:


> U CAN'T use drywall primer on wood!


Maybe a case of different country different products because here you can, I could be wrong but I think thats all they use for interior work....Am I right Caz? I hope so because thats all I use at home :blink:


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

Kiwiman said:


> Maybe a case of different country different products because here you can, I could be wrong but I think thats all they use for interior work....Am I right Caz? I hope so because thats all I use at home :blink:


Hmmmmm. Any wood that needs to be primed here needs a zinzer primer the red stuff. It's a shellac . Need methyl hydrate to clean it. 99 percent of our wood is pine and the sap and pitch in it bleeds through an turns it yellow if proper primer is used. What types of wood are used there kiwi? Mdf is ok with drywall primer tho.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

jcampbell said:


> Hmmmmm. Any wood that needs to be primed here needs a zinzer primer the red stuff. It's a shellac . Need methyl hydrate to clean it. 99 percent of our wood is pine and the sap and pitch in it bleeds through an turns it yellow if proper primer is used. What types of wood are used there kiwi? Mdf is ok with drywall primer tho.


I'll let Caz answer that, I'm only thinking of the white pine used in door jambs and MDF mouldings etc, I know you would be right about the sap tho.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> I'll let Caz answer that, I'm only thinking of the white pine used in door jambs and MDF mouldings etc, I know you would be right about the sap tho.


 
We have radiata pine here http://www.nzwood.co.nz/species/radiata-pine

Yes the paint is the same as we use on drywall and you say you timber needs shellac???? OMG????? Really???? Its leaches sap??? OMG again, What sort of rubbish timber are they supplying you with???

Lol, :jester: Just joking, Its prob great timber but wow am i amazed to hear that you need special primer?? We have a timber called totra here, A native and need special as you say but thats not used any more.

We just use primer,undercoat,sealer some better than others but it mostly all does the same thing, Like i said, Tape, trim, Bomb the lot with the same primer, Light check it all for dings, scratches, etc, Sand smooth, Out with the no more gaps, Then two top coats and done, Priming trim after priming board would make you go broke in extra time lost, True, Paintings not that well paying, You need to save what time you can. And not one painter would prime the board first then trim later, No way, Thats doubling up..........Time and price killer :yes:


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

it's fairly standard around here for the walls to be primed before trim. i prefer it that way but i understand the painters point of view on the economics of the other method.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Walls should be primed with in a week or two being sanded. i dont think you save that much by priming all at once. for my trim I just spray and backbrush in the basement. First a coat of preprite 200 then sand . next spray and backbrush with finish paint then sand, i do this all on sawhorses. No bending over and sanding on your hands and knees. next step is to install trim and then caulk and putty while lightly sanding nails then spray paint for a finish. Some things like windows I just do by hand instead of rebagging. I I know its an extra trip but you wont find me sanding trim on my hands and knees then spending extra time bagging windows and trying to remove all the dust. Plus my trim looks nice and uniform as well as being more durable.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

jcampbell said:


> And.....how bad are the trimmers that they are destroying ur work? Ur there are always a ding here and there but not that much of a big deal? Once again ... I do all my own tape paint trim etc etc etc. I don't work in the contract world anymore. I know it does suck!!!!!!


You have no idea :blink:. Had to skim out almost an entire stairwell a few times. Houses around here tend to get a lot of trim work done.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> You have no idea :blink:. Had to skim out almost an entire stairwell a few times. Houses around here tend to get a lot of trim work done.


 Mexican trim work?:whistling2:


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## Alvin (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree. On some off the higher valued homes in the range of $10 -$20 million dollars both GC and architect insist on all drywall being sealed before any trim or cabinets are installed. Coastal cities really need total sealing asap. You want it all sealed fast. Even where its covered. Drywall is like a sponge. Lol.


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## Toolnut (Aug 17, 2012)

The only reason I can think off is I have read lately where they are saying if you prime and don't paint within 48 hours you should re-prime.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Toolnut said:


> The only reason I can think off is I have read lately where they are saying if you prime and don't paint within 48 hours you should re-prime.


 Never heard that one before:blink: Once the board is sealed you should have a little time . Right?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Some advice from Workaholic ??? :blink:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

moore said:


> I found out today A home I finished up In November still has no paint.The painter won't start till all the trim is up.[The h/o is doing the trim work themselves]
> I told the h/o when I walked out ,You need to seal this board Asap.
> I spent alot off effort to keep your home dry while I was here.
> 
> ...





moore said:


> Some advice from Workaholic ??? :blink:


I do them both ways depends on the builder. I have been fortunate to work for some organized builders that understand scheduling so a lot of times I get in after the trim package but the trim package comes in behind the drywall guys. I have a couple 170k torpedo heaters so a lack of heat is not a issue for me. The builders here would replace the painters rather than hold a job up for months over some primadonas. Of course I am not in arctic climates either.

With the HO doing the trim work then yes that will hold up a job, in his mind he is saving but truthfully what is his time worth? then add in the fact that he would be much farther along by now and there is the delay. 

Up sale to seal the board. in the job where the painters are holding it up.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Toolnut said:


> The only reason I can think off is I have read lately where they are saying if you prime and don't paint within 48 hours you should re-prime.


Workaholic can answer this but........

You might be thinking when the first coat of colour has gone on the wall, and how long till you can touch up over it,,,, or maybe it is the final coat:blink:, I forget.

Say you finish paint a wall, and you see some touch ups. I think you only have so many days you can spot touch into them with paint, b/c the sun light shining on the walls will change the colour just a bit. Wait too long and your paint spot touch ups, will bleed through , meaning you will half to repaint the whole wall...... thats what you maybe thinking about.

Worky or "cazna the know it all" can answer this, if it's true:yes:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Workaholic can answer this but........
> 
> You might be thinking when the first coat of colour has gone on the wall, and how long till you can touch up over it,,,, or maybe it is the final coat:blink:, I forget.
> 
> ...


I don't know I'm not a painter.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I don't know I'm not a painter.


 Or a drywaller.


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## br549 (Jun 2, 2012)

moore said:


> Or a drywaller.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Or a drywaller.


I have been known to do both. 

Popcorn smells burnt.


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## Toolnut (Aug 17, 2012)

I really don't know the reason but I have read it twice now. Maybe has something to do with the new no VOC paints.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

it all needs to be sealed beore the cULK othewise you beed up the mud on the flat,angle and metal mud:blink: $ is the thing, so no one will do it right.


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