# Angle head gouging



## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I am having trouble gouging my joins when topping with my angle head. This is even happening if I leave the joints to dry for two days. It is the end of the blades that seem to be doing the damage.


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

I have mine set dead level with the skids. You're sure you don't have the blades reversed, I assume? The radiused corner is hitting the wall?

I like to run the flats and angles on the same day tho. Now that's a gouge!


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

No the blades are not reversed. But they are half a poofteenth proud of the skids. Certanly not as deep as the gouging.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

gazman said:


> No the blades are not reversed. But they are half a poofteenth proud of the skids. Certanly not as deep as the gouging.


sounds like ur joints may be a little fuller than needed,heads will cut a small line from time to time but shouldnt b gouging


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for the input Chris. But the flats are flat. I am using a mudrunner but I dont think that should make any difference.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

gazman said:


> Thanks for the input Chriss. But the flats are flat. I am using a mudrunner but I dont think that should make any difference.


never have used mudrunner,,, our angleheads tend to cut or gouge on bad butts or humped flats or wet mud Sorry couldnt help


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## tomg (Dec 16, 2009)

Is it gouging out from the centre? What are you finishing your first/taping coat with.
A glazer / flusher has more of a radius than a corner finisher, so if they are not matched the finisher will remove some dry compound from the apex.

If you are using a glazer for your fist coat, the finisher should have a similar radius.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi Tom good to see the manufacturers here at 10:30 on a Saturday night. I am using an angle head for my first coat not a flusher. It is gouging on the outer edge of the angle not the centre. Thanks for the input anyway.


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## tomg (Dec 16, 2009)

gazman said:


> Hi Tom good to see the manufacturers here at 10:30 on a Saturday night. I am using an angle head for my first coat not a flusher. It is gouging on the outer edge of the angle not the centre. Thanks for the input anyway.


Can only suggest to check the setting on a flat surface.

We set them flat - no rock.

Are you going small to large?

Cheers,
Tom.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I am fairly new with the angle head. At the moment I am going small to large I have tried large to small but probably due to my lack of experience my results are better small to large. But with practice I am hoping to to be able to turn that around.


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

gazman said:


> No the blades are not reversed. But they are half a poofteenth proud of the skids. Certanly not as deep as the gouging.


You've got another 5mm of blade past the skid to make it that much prouder but if a poofteenth is less than a half a mm I couldn't see it making that much difference. 

Only other ideas I can chuck out are:

Sure your flats are dry? 
You don't have a burr(s) on the blades?
The skids aren't reversed and have a sharp corner at the bottom?
Just how much gouging are we talking about? Is this a 500w globe and magnifying glass perfectionist's gouge or an actual gouge? :jester:

Edit: Heavy spring resistance would make them more prone to dig in too.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

The regulation measurement a "poofteenth" is about .2 of a mm:whistling2:
Thanks Jason but have checked for burrs etc not the prob. It is a gouge that you can see under natural light and certanly feel. So far I have been doing a walk through and giving them a wipe with a 6" prior to cornicing. But that is 10 min I would rather not have to use.
Just looked at your repost. I will try one spring not two.


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

If it's leaving heavy edges with only the one spring then you'll know it isn't springing out forcefully enough and you can try bending one and reinstalling it to find a happy medium. On softer muds it seems like you always get a little track, but so small you don't even think about it on sanding day. But you use that CSR concrete anyway so... 

Or... box and angles on the same day, then stripe the gouge the next day. Means no bringing the flats up to the angle. 


How's the mudrunner going for you? Are you running both up and down? If so, does it flip easily to run the other way?


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I do the same as Jason said. I hit the "crossovers" of the seams,buts and beads with a light coat covering about an inch and a half into the angle and an inch and half over the seams. Starting and stopping four inches or so above and below the seams. They sand easy and turn out beautiful. 100 sheets takes 15-20 miniutes.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I do the same as Jason said. I hit the "crossovers" of the seams,buts and beads with a light coat covering about an inch and a half into the angle and an inch and half over the seams. Starting and stopping four inches or so above and below the seams. They sand easy and turn out beautiful. 100 sheets takes 15-20 miniutes.


Same here, and we switched to a can-am to finish, no need to but, we still keep touching in on the ends, hard habit to break

Could just be the simple fact their too new, just give it a few houses, and they shall wear in a bit more. Weather the cheap tin heads or the good mechanical heads, they feel a bit stiff or give some resistance when running them at 1st. Maybe mix your mud a tad thinner than you normally would, it may help a bit till they wear in


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Hey there Gaz, my Northstars are exactly the same, I've tried playing with the spring tension but too soft and ewe get a thick edge, thinner mud definitely helps but I usually work around the problem by topcoating the corners before the rest, then the gouging gets dealt to when touching up the end of the flat joins anyway. You are using a mudrunner so I wouldn't have thought there would be much pressure needed, I use the cornerbox...or the muscle maker as I like to call it, and occaisionally I mark the board if the mud gets a bit thick and I use too much pressure.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I know what your trouble is gazman, I had the same trouble, I will pm you later, Im off to do some free work at the local new animal shelter,


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

I ran my angle head with the corner box today, just a slight problem im noticing, its not quite filling the interal properly?

The edges are fine, but seems to be taking too much out from the centre. 

So load up the suggestions boys and shoot em at me


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

How much rock is on the head? More rock = more mud.


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

In Australian Gaz? Bloody tough coming to terms with what the hell these Americans and Canadians are talking about with..


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

If you lay the head on a flat surface, on its side it will see saw (Rock) put a feeler gauge under the bottom edge of the side blade and take a measurement. 20 thou is a good place to start. 
Check out these videos from Columbia. These have been posted by a tool shop in the uk, but they are done by Aaron of Columbia tools. I could not find the originals Sorry Aaron.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxer_we_t8-leJNnTicBb6E6ZLxeIGDX6


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

plugger said:


> I ran my angle head with the corner box today, just a slight problem im noticing, its not quite filling the interal properly?
> 
> The edges are fine, but seems to be taking too much out from the centre.
> 
> So load up the suggestions boys and shoot em at me


Do you mean it's skimming too tight near the centre? If so then maybe your first coat is leaving too much mud in the centre, try adjusting both heads the same.


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

**** me.. More tools! Gauging pins.. Allen Keys.. 

Straight outta the box id expect this thing to be set up to run perfect.. Ill report back once ive got whats needed!

And Kiwi, i took off with a 3".. My order last came without the Angle head pole, so can only use it with the angle box :furious:
Whats happened is in the internal if the paper has sunk back into a gap the angle doesnt fill it.. 

And yes before yous all go off on one.. These gaps are not very big, no bigger than 5mm.. And yes the angle head pole is on its way so wont be a problem soon..


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

5mm is to big, You have to pre fill the hell out of everything or tape the gappy areas, Then go back and tape over it again, Like you have made you own board with two layers of paper and mud in the middle.

I prefer the massive prefill on day one, Everythings easy from then on.

And angleheads can still need set even though they are new, Im not very good at it but i havent tryed much either, I have a few heads that were great from new so ive just stuck with those, I tseems to luck with them.


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

Cheers cazna!

Pretty much anything from 5mm and bigger i filled.. i can see im gonna end up hating the first day prefill now on.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

plugger said:


> Cheers cazna!
> 
> Pretty much anything from 5mm and bigger i filled.. i can see im gonna end up hating the first day prefill now on.



I fill anything 2mm or greater. If i only filled anything from 5mm and larger I would not have anything to fill. The benefit of hanging your own board.:yes:


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

plugger said:


> Cheers cazna!
> 
> Pretty much anything from 5mm and bigger i filled.. i can see im gonna end up hating the first day prefill now on.


I personally don't prefill anything , just run easy tape over gap, after that paper tape with bazooka, roller and angle head and everything turns up beautifully.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> I would not have anything to fill. The benefit of hanging your own board.:yes:


that is the way :thumbsup:


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

gazman said:


> I fill anything 2mm or greater. If i only filled anything from 5mm and larger I would not have anything to fill. The benefit of hanging your own board.:yes:


Urgh. Do you get the tape out to measure ya 2mm too ? Lol.. I slacked off on hanging and my motto became the trowl will fix it! Now with these new auto tools it looks like its gonna become 'no matter if its done right or wrong, it still got done!'


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

keke said:


> I personally don't prefill anything , just run easy tape over gap, after that paper tape with bazooka, roller and angle head and everything turns up beautifully.


That's what I done today with the bigger gaps. Turned out swoit! Just not the smaller ones.. Guess ill be needing more easy tape then!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

plugger said:


> In Australian Gaz? Bloody tough coming to terms with what the hell these Americans and Canadians are talking about with..


Ya sayin us Canucks talk like Yanks, eh'..

Ok eh', quit tinking like a hand taper eh', it's about machine taping now eh', ya tinking tings all wrong eh'

You stated the edges of your internals are being coated out fine/good, thats all that matters. You don't need tons of mud/compound over the paper part of the angle/internal.

Machine taping = tight coats, which = minimal sanding:yes:

My guess is, nothing is wrong with your angle head. It's more important about the mud under your tape (what makes it stick) than the mud that goes on top (lots of mud don't make things more stronger),,,, Plus don't forget their going to paint things, painting can be your buddy/mate too:thumbup:


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## plugger (Apr 4, 2013)

2buckcanuck said:


> Ya sayin us Canucks talk like Yanks, eh'..
> 
> Ok eh', quit tinking like a hand taper eh', it's about machine taping now eh', ya tinking tings all wrong eh'
> 
> ...


Yeh much of a muchness you two brother country's 

And it's not the coverage I'm worried about. Just fill in the centre of the internal! The first time I ran it last week I noticed it ran tight but came out tops once dry! Tis just a few spots hollow I'm concerned about..


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I never realised that "eh' was a Canuck thing, over here it is a Queenslander thing eh.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

plugger said:


> Yeh much of a muchness you two brother country's
> 
> And it's not the coverage I'm worried about. Just fill in the centre of the internal! The first time I ran it last week I noticed it ran tight but came out tops once dry! Tis just a few spots hollow I'm concerned about..


Then it could be the gaps, as others mentioned in their post "Do what they said":yes:

You can also invest in a 3 point creaser wheel too, down the road, it helps, it wont push the tape into the gap. Anything 3/8 (10mm) I will fire a fixer tape on it. I apply a tape over the gap, roll it, then go forward with normal method.

But "Cazna the cry baby" hates that method of fixing......... Phhffftttt,,, Kiwi's:furious:




gazman said:


> I never realised that "eh' was a Canuck thing, over here it is a Queenslander thing eh.


It started back when I was in my teens, media sources were saying that the yanks were claiming we said eh' (A) all the time, or pronounced about as a boot. I don't think we did:blink:, just the maritime provinces did(those east of french speaking Quebec). Then add to it Doug and Bob McKenzie from SCTV (pic below) they added to the stereo type un purpose also,mocking what Americans thought Canucks were like, but the yanks thought thats what a real Canuck was like,,,, Now everyone does say eh though,, eh':blink:

Technically, all Canucks west of Quebec have a mid western accent. So if I talked to someone like Joe from trim tec or Slim from Montana on the phone (for example), there would be no problem. But if I called someone like Moore ,,,,, I might be going WTF:blink:


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

A guy could say aboot anything, eh?:jester:


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Talked to Scott at walltools last week and he said he could tell I was from Minnesota by my accent. I was like what accent!? Oofda, ya sure like I hev da axcent!


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

I was talking to an apple support guy the other day regarding my wife's iPhone that had found its way into a microwave (she was a little surprised when she went to get her coffee and found a toasty phone). Anyway he couldn't believe I was from Canada, said I sounded American and was really curious about Canada, he thought we all spoke French.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

keke said:


> I personally don't prefill anything , just run easy tape over gap,


Whats easy tape??



2buckcanuck said:


> But "Cazna the cry baby" hates that method of fixing......... Phhffftttt,,, Kiwi's:furious:


I tryed it once eh

Didnt like the way it turned out eh

The extra tape underneith made the top tape proud and the edges came though when i sanded it eh

You got me prefilling the hell out of everything now eh

After that its just all so easy eh :thumbsup:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

cazna said:


> Whats easy tape??
> 
> 
> I hate to say the word, but they mean mesh.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Noooooooooo...............


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Eastern Canadians have a noticeable accent compared to westerners in alot of cases. 2 buck will let you know they friggen love to make the word you plural by putting an "s" on the end. Like ....so how's about you'd guys board that shack for me.... Lol or if you's do a good job ill tack a couple cents on the end.


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Even my phone corrects it lol. And I guess I shoulda wrote. How's about you's guys board that shack for me........... Eh!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

A Mexican that speaks English especially well ,,but still has a Spanish accent.. sounds alot like a thick Canadian accent .


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

And the Albertans have an American accent.


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Mudshark said:


> And the Albertans have an American accent.


Lol, I love there and I wouldn't even know. Real albertans are a rare breed in alberta


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## Deezal (Mar 9, 2013)

Deezal said:


> Lol, I love there and I wouldn't even know. Real albertans are a rare breed in alberta


Supposed to say I live there.....


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