# hanger/taper footage



## BCD (Jun 23, 2011)

Hello, I am a drywall contractor out of california and have always paid my hangers and tapers by piece mainly because the majority of my work is residential. I have recently started doing some commercial and would like to know what is the daily footage expected for a hanger and taper to pay them hourly instead of piece rate.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

BCD said:


> Hello, I am a drywall contractor out of california and have always paid my hangers and tapers by piece mainly because the majority of my work is residential. I have recently started doing some commercial and would like to know what is the daily footage expected for a hanger and taper to pay them hourly instead of piece rate.


tacos,and corona?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Commercial outfits I've worked for expect a hanger to put up 20 sheets a day. Doesn't seem like much, but when you're slipping into steel doors and taking care of slammers and running lasers for clerestory reveals and moving lifts and finding electricians and attending safety meetings and moving track that got pinned in the wrong location and calling the boss because you're out of screws and walking 2000 feet to stock rock that should have been stocked in the wing you're working in and safety staff tells you every one of your cords has a microscopic nick in the sheathing and you'd better fix them NOW or you're shut down and ..................Oh, and let's not forget top-out because everyone knows that's when the hangers really start cruisin' at a whopping 5 12-footers per day for two guys.....one crawling around on this that or that other (from the lift) while the safety guy's not around and the other one waiting for more numbers and smoking cigarettes like a chimney before they seal the wing and turn on the heat.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

nicely put:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

chris said:


> nicely put:thumbsup:


I considered it a pep talk for someone just getting started in commercial work


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

SlimPickins said:


> Commercial outfits I've worked for expect a hanger to put up 20 sheets a day. Doesn't seem like much, but when you're slipping into steel doors and taking care of slammers and running lasers for clerestory reveals and moving lifts and finding electricians and attending safety meetings and moving track that got pinned in the wrong location and calling the boss because you're out of screws and walking 2000 feet to stock rock that should have been stocked in the wing you're working in and safety staff tells you every one of your cords has a microscopic nick in the sheathing and you'd better fix them NOW or you're shut down and ..................Oh, and let's not forget top-out because everyone knows that's when the hangers really start cruisin' at a whopping 5 12-footers per day for two guys.....one crawling around on this that or that other (from the lift) while the safety guy's not around and the other one waiting for more numbers and smoking cigarettes like a chimney before they seal the wing and turn on the heat.


 So you have worked a few commercial jobs eh slim. you're right it is a pain but the money is much better than residential atleast around here.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> So you have worked a few commercial jobs eh slim. you're right it is a pain but the money is much better than residential atleast around here.


It might be better if you're running the show, but around here commercial framers/hangers/finishers who work as subs kinda take it in the shorts. $20/hr is the going rate, and I make $30 working residential....it' good when times are tight, but when things are kickin' like they are right now it's just not worth it (plus travel expenses will kill that $20/hr pretty quick, and few companies will pay for anything other than a sleazy hotel room)

I was more trying to give the guy a heads up on commercial management because usually it's severely lacking.....there's a lot to be prepared for because it's never straight-forward like a house.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Commercial does pay more , but your company has to be big , and FAST.
,,, And have enough capital to pay the fines. too many a$$ @ elbows for me.
The only tools I have that osha would approve are my two hands.

On a side note .. The house I'm on this week Is in a subdivision In a fairly large city.. We had a chord run to the temp. pole at the street. Someone cut the the chord ,and took the replacement end. All the subs are freakin out. they think osha did It . I'm guessing some dude In the burb needed a replacement end for his drop chord. So he could finish cutting grass with his electric push mower. ,,,But I'm having a ball with the siding guy,,, told him about all the fines he's facing without harness , cuts in drop chords etc,,,
The guys a ball of nerves over It.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm sorry but a good commerical hanger needs to hang up to 60 sheets a day. Top out? Come-on, It shouldn't take more than 15 minutes a sheet max. One guy on the lift reads out the measurements, and quickly. The ground guy takes them down, which should take no more than 3 minutes, then makes his cuts with his router, saw, or knife ( 3 minutes more) 1 minute to lift the sheet up, and up to 8 minutes to install it. But I would say the time to install should only take 1 minute, to only hold it up, give the cut guy the next measurements, and while he is cutting it, you go back and finish screwing it.

I see too many hangers standing around waiting for their partner to finish before they begin their next sheet. I can hang 3-4 sheets of top an hour.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

joepro0000 said:


> I'm sorry but a good commerical hanger needs to hang up to 60 sheets a day. Top out? Come-on, It shouldn't take more than 15 minutes a sheet max. One guy on the lift reads out the measurements, and quickly. The ground guy takes them down, which should take no more than 3 minutes, then makes his cuts with his router, saw, or knife ( 3 minutes more) 1 minute to lift the sheet up, and up to 8 minutes to install it. But I would say the time to install should only take 1 minute, to only hold it up, give the cut guy the next measurements, and while he is cutting it, you go back and finish screwing it.
> 
> I see too many hangers standing around waiting for their partner to finish before they begin their next sheet. I can hang 3-4 sheets of top an hour.


It's obvious to me that the top-out I'm talking about is different, in perhaps a big way. I'm talking about top out in a 16 foot tall hallway, with all HVAC, electrical conduit, sprinkler pipe, etc penetrating the walls and obstructing access to the walls. When I say crawling above the lift I mean laying on your belly with all-thread against your neck and both arms stretched out in front of you trying to get a 16"x24" piece of rock in there. I'm not kidding when I say the management was a little "off"...top out should be hit as early in the game as possible to avoid the above scenarios....and some guys lose their ass because of it. I can hang 3-4 sheets an hour if I've got a purlin or two and a couple of conduits, but with each 4'x4' chunk being cut up into 5 pieces not so much. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy that crap, as long as I'm getting paid hourly....I like a challenge.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

BCD said:


> Hello, I am a drywall contractor out of california and have always paid my hangers and tapers by piece mainly because the majority of my work is residential. I have recently started doing some commercial and would like to know what is the daily footage expected for a hanger and taper to pay them hourly instead of piece rate.


On commercial work, hourly wages and footage expected: The other day I was looking at the 'red' - 'labour hours run over' - that one of the company's estimators has going on, on a # of the commercial jobs he bid and are now being done, or were just finished. Lots of red. Lots of variables contributing to it.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

moore said:


> Commercial does pay more , but your company has to be big , and FAST.
> ,,, And have enough capital to pay the fines. too many a$$ @ elbows for me.
> The only tools I have that osha would approve are my two hands.
> 
> i wouldn't approve your hands for safety. not with the way you've described them.:jester:


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

SlimPickins said:


> It's obvious to me that the top-out I'm talking about is different, in perhaps a big way. I'm talking about top out in a 16 foot tall hallway, with all HVAC, electrical conduit, sprinkler pipe, etc penetrating the walls and obstructing access to the walls. When I say crawling above the lift I mean laying on your belly with all-thread against your neck and both arms stretched out in front of you trying to get a 16"x24" piece of rock in there. I'm not kidding when I say the management was a little "off"...top out should be hit as early in the game as possible to avoid the above scenarios....and some guys lose their ass because of it. I can hang 3-4 sheets an hour if I've got a purlin or two and a couple of conduits, but with each 4'x4' chunk being cut up into 5 pieces not so much. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy that crap, as long as I'm getting paid hourly....I like a challenge.


 
Hey Slim,

Yea I'm talking about HVAC ductwork, conduit, bar joist, roof cannels, etc. I havn't had much where I had to crawl, but I have done walls up to 30' on lifts. I make sure I get in there and atleast 1 side before everyone gets in. For exampe, frame the demising wall, and the next day 1 side it. You need to get in there before the job starts, and discuss it with the super. Let him know the situation and how its gonna cost double if you have to work through all that stuff before hand. On a 1 hr wall, I understand you will catch the other end, but top out isn't that bad. Unless its a residential hanger.

A couple of weeks about I subbed out a hanging job, cause I had all my hangers tied up, and the hanger was crying for 10 sheets of top out. " oh thats going to take me a whole day" I told him well don't do it, I'll send my guys here and finish it up for you, and they will do it in 2 hours. He ended up doing, and worst of all, he hung all the sheets on the walls horizontal. Claiming the studs didn't land every 48". What a bunch of BS some residential hangers are.:furious:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

joepro0000 said:


> Hey Slim,
> 
> Yea I'm talking about HVAC ductwork, conduit, bar joist, roof cannels, etc. I havn't had much where I had to crawl, but I have done walls up to 30' on lifts. I make sure I get in there and atleast 1 side before everyone gets in. For exampe, frame the demising wall, and the next day 1 side it. You need to get in there before the job starts, and discuss it with the super. Let him know the situation and how its gonna cost double if you have to work through all that stuff before hand. On a 1 hr wall, I understand you will catch the other end, but top out isn't that bad. Unless its a residential hanger.
> 
> A couple of weeks about I subbed out a hanging job, cause I had all my hangers tied up, and the hanger was crying for 10 sheets of top out. " oh thats going to take me a whole day" I told him well don't do it, I'll send my guys here and finish it up for you, and they will do it in 2 hours. He ended up doing, and worst of all, he hung all the sheets on the walls horizontal. Claiming the studs didn't land every 48". What a bunch of BS some residential hangers are.:furious:


Yeah, we're talking about the same thing, but definitely not any one-siding going on. The management missed the boat, and from 9'2" all the way up to the deck in the hallways was crammed with crap because all rooms off the hallway were clerestories with the only visible elements being the ductwork (plenums?). It's not the first job I've seen screwed due to bad management. One boss had ignored my advice to avoid using a certain hanging crew, and when the time came to jump in and one side as much as possible the hanger was a no show...until all the penetrations were in, and then he walked off because his footage bid wasn't going to work out.....so the boss had to eat all the labor and lost his ass. I'll admit, I don't have many years of commercial experience, but enough to know how to get around the job site and make things work....oh, and what NOT to do:yes: I know that clean hanging during top means less fire-taping, which means less labor over-all, which makes happy superintendents


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> moore said:
> 
> 
> > Commercial does pay more , but your company has to be big , and FAST.
> ...


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

have you tried switching hands before? i've been trying to use my left a little bit because i sprained my thumb on my right hand last summer and it's never gotten better.. it's actually quite excruciating. if it never gets better it might force me off the tools sooner than i would like.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> have you tried switching hands before? i've been trying to use my left a little bit because i sprained my thumb on my right hand last summer and it's never gotten better.. it's actually quite excruciating. if it never gets better it might force me off the tools sooner than i would like.


Naw ..I'm right right handed .. I just live with the pain.inch:


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## bmedra9 (Apr 7, 2012)

holy cow man ur full of sh** u must of never topped out before 20+ years commercial finisher and no one puts it up that fast c"mon man get real


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## keithby (Aug 21, 2012)

Been there!


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## BPTaper (Jul 31, 2012)

All I want in life is me,my 2nd man (if needed)and a radio.I dont have the patience for commercial anymore.
I'm old and very crybaby bitchy


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

BPTaper said:


> I'm old and very crybaby bitchy


Welcome to drywall talk, I think you just found a new home:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

BPTaper said:


> All I want in life is me,my 2nd man (if needed)and a radio.I dont have the patience for commercial anymore.
> I'm old and very crybaby bitchy


 Me,my 2nd man [if needed] :thumbup:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Having troubles with vids on new phone , heres a clip of me and " Dirty Johnny" hangin some 5/8 off of scaff. I think johnny likes the camera


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> Tuff hangin - YouTube Having troubles with vids on new phone , heres a clip of me and " Dirty Johnny" hangin some 5/8 off of scaff. I think johnny likes the camera


I like "dirty Johnny's" style:thumbup:

He nails the rock off like me, and even uses the same electricians pouch as I do. His name should be changed to Johnny 2bucks:thumbup:

I actually get to drywall today. The GC and his apprentice are drywalling the next house I'm doing. Except they want to use a drywall lift........

It's going to be a long day:blink:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> I like "dirty Johnny's" style:thumbup:
> 
> He nails the rock off like me, and even uses the same electricians pouch as I do. His name should be changed to Johnny 2bucks:thumbup:
> 
> ...


Give them a bowl of wheaties and say follow me lol


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Some banjo tapin. Ran out of tape but was easily clearin the 50' flats and had mud to spare.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Dirty Johnny pulled that dead screw out with a hand driver..
He didn't just jerk it out leaving a blister:thumbup: Ya take that long handled Mexican hatchet away from Dirty Johnny ..he might make a good hanger! Tell him I said that Chris! 

Chris screwed his end off ..no prefill 
dirty Johnny's end ...prefill


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## dieselman350 (Aug 21, 2012)

Average commercial haning top out is 10-15 sheets a day yea some days you may get more but some you may get less never bid for more than that as far as walling out average is 40-65 sheets this is how every commercial job ive been on works


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

for taping is a 1000 sq a day, thing is alot depends on height, as in
 






, how much is in the way, how many workers ya gotta work around









weather, bulkheads design, so to get an accurate measure is hard to say, but if he slams out a thousand a day on a good day you got a Journeyman Taper

Com pays more to contract than Res anyhoo

in Com as long as you see the guy trying







is what is important


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

chris said:


> 2012-08-16_12-15-11_910 - YouTube Some banjo tapin. Ran out of tape but was easily clearin the 50' flats and had mud to spare.


swings Banjo as fast as 2BurritoMexico swings Zook:yes:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

chris said:


> Tuff hangin - YouTube Having troubles with vids on new phone , heres a clip of me and " Dirty Johnny" hangin some 5/8 off of scaff. I think johnny likes the camera











Nice to work in shorts


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Shorts help to keep the peanut oil to a minmum I try and where shorts everyday ( Winter also) I tell the supers " If its too cold for shorts than its too cold to tape:yes:


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

chris said:


> Shorts help to keep the peanut oil to a minmum I try and where shorts everyday ( Winter also) I tell the supers " If its too cold for shorts than its too cold to tape:yes:


I agree


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