# durabond, is there a difference on butt joints



## brianmulligan (Mar 9, 2012)

Hi:

is there a noticable difference in how a butt joint looks when durabonded on the first coat as opposed to using all-purpose? Does durabond expand or just not shrink? Happy Thanksgiving


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

brianmulligan said:


> Hi:
> 
> is there a noticable difference in how a butt joint looks when durabonded on the first coat as opposed to using all-purpose? Does durabond expand or just not shrink? Happy Thanksgiving


Are you talking about pre-fill ???, or taping with durabond


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

brianmulligan said:


> Hi:
> 
> is there a noticable difference in how a butt joint looks when durabonded on the first coat as opposed to using all-purpose? Does durabond expand or just not shrink? Happy Thanksgiving


I tape butts @ seams with 90min...after that it's a/p all the way.
I will not use hot mud as a block coat ....All hot muds will swell..Where it will cause a problem on the skim IMO! 

hot mud will not stick to screw heads or metal bead ...or no-coat /plastic beads ...


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## FingerLakesAcoustics (Nov 23, 2012)

I find it kinda foolish to use DURA-_puke (-: On ANY work, unless its too cold for compound, or you plan on coating that buttjoint again that day.(hopefully your first coat is on there nice, you shouldnt have a problem coating it a few hours later with nice airtemp, and air circ of course. And why cant you use durobond on nailheads and gypsum acceseries?aka corner bead, L bead NO Coat etc etc...?? Than there would be no need for it in the drywall game. Sorry to disagree but I've put alot of it on, and have never seen falter. If you want a good bedcoat or you want to prefill what a bad boardhanger left you...old brown bag can be the cure. and when i say cure. a jackhammer cant chizzel it. So to add to your buttjoint question, mix with love. _


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

brianmulligan said:


> Hi:
> 
> is there a noticable difference in how a butt joint looks when durabonded on the first coat as opposed to using all-purpose? Does durabond expand or just not shrink? Happy Thanksgiving


 You dont want to sand back to the HM, in other words dont overload your seam with HM cause you want your topcoat(ap or toppin) to be the mud that sands flat ,,, not th HM


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

No, to answer your question, there's no difference in how the butt joint will look when you're done.....if you do it right. The hot mud does two things....it allows you to coat again sooner, and it provides a stronger joint..............*IF* you do everything right.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

For butts I use dura bond or ap mud. Only matters if i am in a hurry to second coat or not. As for using dura bond on metal bead, screws and no coat that it wont bond is BS. I have had many repeat clients over the past 22 years and never had a problem with Durabond.. TBH the houses that were nightmares were the ones with cheap ass contractors who provided propane heat or none at all. Thats why i think your better to invest in your own electric heaters and dehumidifiers. Good working conditions equals quality workmanship and almost eliminates call backs.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

boco said:


> For butts I use dura bond or ap mud. Only matters if i am in a hurry to second coat or not. As for using dura bond on metal bead, screws and no coat that it wont bond is BS. I have had many repeat clients over the past 22 years and never had a problem with Durabond.. TBH the houses that were nightmares were the ones with cheap ass contractors who provided propane heat or none at all. Thats why i think your better to invest in your own electric heaters and dehumidifiers. Good working conditions equals quality workmanship and almost eliminates call backs.


I have always wondered about hot mud vs all purpose mud.

I was taught that you don't use hotmud on screws b/c it won't adhere well enough, but being a smart arse when I was young. I immediately questioned why we 1st coat the metal bead with it then:whistling2:

Durabond is suppose to be more stronger and Harder to sand than sheet rock, but is more brittle. Then I hear sheet rock is affected by moister more. Then neither one is suppose to have better adhering properties than a good taping mud, or do they??

I don't use hotmuds that much, when pre-filling, I was taught to use straight stiff mud right out of the box (no water added). It's strong, and has more glue. But if I do need to speed up the drying process, I use half and half mixes. Half mud and sheet rock, very rarely use durabond. I always add mud, to feel safe

So maybe someone should do some testing for us









Test out durabond, sheetrock and mud with no water added, to see what the facts are.

Test them out on screws, and then some flat tapes:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

They are hundreds of millions of you in the northern hemisphere yet your hotmuds are total chit, There is about 20 million in austrailia and 4.5 in nz yet our hotmuds are awsome, Stick to anything and dont swell, I dont get it???? You have dura chit and easy sand chit and thats it, Why arnt your mud makers improving there hotmuds?? Its a massive market, I guess its just dominanted by airdry products and your hotmuds get such a bad rap no one wants it.

Hang on, Dont you have hamiltons?? They do a good hotmud.....I think???


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## CatD7 (Jul 25, 2011)

cazna said:


> They are hundreds of millions of you in the northern hemisphere yet your hotmuds are total chit, There is about 20 million in austrailia and 4.5 in nz yet our hotmuds are awsome, Stick to anything and dont swell, I dont get it???? You have dura chit and easy sand chit and thats it, Why arnt your mud makers improving there hotmuds?? Its a massive market, I guess its just dominanted by airdry products and your hotmuds get such a bad rap no one wants it.
> 
> Hang on, Dont you have hamiltons?? They do a good hotmud.....I think???


 
It puts the lotion in the basket.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

cazna said:


> They are hundreds of millions of you in the northern hemisphere yet your hotmuds are total chit, There is about 20 million in austrailia and 4.5 in nz yet our hotmuds are awsome, Stick to anything and dont swell, I dont get it???? You have dura chit and easy sand chit and thats it, Why arnt your mud makers improving there hotmuds?? Its a massive market, I guess its just dominanted by airdry products and your hotmuds get such a bad rap no one wants it.
> 
> Hang on, Dont you have hamiltons?? They do a good hotmud.....I think???


 Very good mud. I wouldnt tape or texture with it. Good for big fills and floats, and if you need to bang out a small job


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Ever notice how easy hot muds just falls off shower tubs with ease.
That's why I finish around shower tubs with A/P..It's a pita to clean off ..cause It will bond .
Load a shiny 90 with hot mud ..let it cure then lightly tap the flange with a 5'' handle.. A chunk will flake off ..Take your blade to the nose of the bead and run it down .all the hot mud will flake off easily...A/P wont.
Trim-tex suggest none of there products should be used with fast setting compounds common sense rule really ..let some 20 min set up in a bucket flip it over and slam it on the ground..pops right out.
IMO..hot mud has a very poor bond to metal/plastic/fiberglass and wood!


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

moore said:


> Ever notice how easy hot muds just falls off shower tubs with ease.
> That's why I finish around shower tubs with A/P..It's a pita to clean off ..cause It will bond .
> Load a shiny 90 with hot mud ..let it cure then lightly tap the flange with a 5'' handle.. A chunk will flake off ..Take your blade to the nose of the bead and run it down .all the hot mud will flake off easily...A/P wont.
> Trim-tex suggest none of there products should be used with fast setting compounds common sense rule really ..let some 20 min set up in a bucket flip it over and slam it on the ground..pops right out.
> IMO..hot mud has a very poor bond to metal/plastic/fiberglass and wood!


 You're absolutely right with how easy it is to chip of dried hotmud :thumbsup: But.. that's one of the reasons we mesh beads (ducks head) It makes for a much stronger bond. I'm still thinking of trying what Slim does, adding glue to the mix


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> You're absolutely right with how easy it is to chip of dried hotmud :thumbsup: But.. that's one of the reasons we mesh beads (ducks head) It makes for a much stronger bond. I'm still thinking of trying what Slim does, adding glue to the mix


Don't just think about it......DO IT. If you've got the right amount of glue in there, when you scrape it off vinyl you'll gouge the vinyl. And metal beads? Fuggedaboudit. I've had to chisel it off concrete too.....:thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> You're absolutely right with how easy it is to chip of dried hotmud :thumbsup: But.. that's one of the reasons we mesh beads (ducks head) It makes for a much stronger bond. I'm still thinking of trying what Slim does, adding glue to the mix


 Go with paper face! Then theres no need for hot muds on the bead.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/hot-mudd-2454/


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

If it was up to me I'd go with some type of paper or TT's mudset. The company I work for is very set in it's ways. Also, we only hotmud if we're able to 2 coat the job same day, or various 
patching that gets thrown in after we've started

Gotta admit, things are rape and run in our end of the biz. We mesh, we run no glue mud for stringing tape half the time, usually only paper we lay is angles... unless I get my way, or it's for a super who prefers .... the list of don'ts we actually DO would make you sick, hell, makes me sick..... 

The TI's we do get remodeled so frequently with each client that moves in I've seen some of the same suites redone a few times in my 13 years. There's alot you can get away with... You can always tell the crews that didn't us USG Green by how easily the tape peels off the demo'd wall scars.

This all is not what I prefer or do on my personal jobs, but it is common out here. What a world aye 

So that's my story... I also like walks in the park, and sunsets at the beach, and flowers... one in your mouth, with slow music in the background :whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I hear ya PHILMA:yes:..sometimes I walk away from a speck and tell myself ...never again!! But ..I have one being loaded Monday..It's work..! PITA but still.. WORK!


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

i dont use much metal bead anymore except for small jobs but always use durabond for it when i do. I think the key here is to not use drywall screws. Apply bead with nails or staples. Buy a premium metal cornerbead. Not the **** they sell at lowes or home depo.
The one thing i was dissappointed with the dura bond is it didnt cure the hairline cracks in angles on exterior walls at a complex i have been working on for the last year and a half. The ones did in the summer months were fine with ap but in the winter months about 50% of them had hairline cracks. Not a big fix with a little bit of caulking after its primed but kinda a pain in the ass cause ya have to wait at least a few hours before painting.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Ever notice how easy hot muds just falls off shower tubs with ease.
> That's why I finish around shower tubs with A/P..It's a pita to clean off ..cause It will bond .
> Load a shiny 90 with hot mud ..let it cure then lightly tap the flange with a 5'' handle.. A chunk will flake off ..Take your blade to the nose of the bead and run it down .all the hot mud will flake off easily...A/P wont.
> Trim-tex suggest none of there products should be used with fast setting compounds common sense rule really ..let some 20 min set up in a bucket flip it over and slam it on the ground..pops right out.
> IMO..hot mud has a very poor bond to metal/plastic/fiberglass and wood!


 
Your words simply amaze me :blink:, Our hotmuds are nothing like that, They bond like all hell to anything, Totally different products.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

cazna said:


> Your words simply amaze me :blink:, Our hotmuds are nothing like that, They bond like all hell to anything, Totally different products.



Totally :yes:. It is incredible how they can be so different.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

I'll have to 3rd that motion, I've tried Durabond and easysand and I was surprised it wasn't better than our hot muds, beats me why it should be that way







they are two different species all together.


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## gotmud (Mar 21, 2011)

You can also simply add mud max to your hot mud, you can't peel,chip,jack hammer or kick it off when added properly. 
Just my 2 cents


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

gotmud said:


> You can also simply add mud max to your hot mud, you can't peel,chip,jack hammer or kick it off when added properly.
> Just my 2 cents


Yep, just add mudmax or white glue if you have any problems. I will say that the actual brown bag "durabond" is much better at sticking to metal than any of the other hot muds. Just can't sand the brown bag stuff unless you got some 60 grit :jester:


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