# Level 5 vids ?



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Do any of you veterans(15 years or more) have a video of you doing some level 5 finishing ? How about you moore ? I want to see one from you ! Please. I'm heading out on a fly-in about 9 days from now and am going to attempt my first level 5 ever, by request. I'll be doing it alone so I'm interested in knowing what procedure might be the easiest for me. Just one room will be done because of all the windows and reflection off of the lake. It's 2 walls are 8' high by 25' long and the cathedral is 10' x 25' on both sides. Roll and trowel off or just trowel it on and take it off ? Which produces a better level 5 ?


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

my experiance with it is probably going to be different than alot of others ,but it works for me.i do a level 4.prime it,then i knife it in complete and lightly sand.i only do one coat vertical,i want the glass finish .


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I like that idea and have done it on small patches with great success. But I won't be around to prime the job this time.


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## Forced (Mar 19, 2012)

I wish i would have taken some pics of the level five finish we have just completed in two massive homes... one was billionaire John Mcbains home (autotrader guy) and the last one was Cohen's residence (army and navy heir). I will take some of Chip Wilson home (lululemon guy) when it's ready for us... but that is apparently a year away..
... ahh.. just remembered, might not be able to take pics of the homes... alot of these projects forbid pictures to preserve the architectual integrity of the homes... or something to that effect..


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Why me big guy?:blink: 
I roll it on with a 9'' roller 1/2 nap ,,and wipe down with a 12'' broad knife [ beer monster calls them floor scrapers]..On ceilings I roll a square 10'x10' [just a quess] then wipe...I cut the edges of each square tight with a well filed 5 ..I never sand before the roll -n - wipe..only after to clean up the laps...

I mix N/G pro-form[black top] with USG plus 3 half-n-half.. It cuts the scratches down..We don't use the same muds ...so.

ON walls ...NO roller .. makes too much of a mess... by hand...

BUT!!!! When it comes to level 5 ..I do alot of cross striping to cut out the ripples my floor scraper leaves... so.. by the time it comes to roll-n-wipe It's just a matter of turning the feild smooth..I sand the edges on each square ...



It's not level 5........It's called sure coating..:yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Were doing a school Level 5 right now. We will basically put mud on entire wall with knives,getting bigger every coat. By the time touch up comes there is very little of wall paper showing (we coat screws by hand with wide knives in all different directions 4 times). After 3 proper coats with boxes we finish off with 12" tight skim fanned out perty wide.Making sure everything is flush with no valleys or hills is key. The rest is just smoothin up the rough paper on rock. Some rock is worst than others. Carry a big knife and a BRIGHT light.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

If painters havnt painted everything by Tuesday when we head back out I will do a quick vid if you like


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> Why me big guy?:blink:
> I roll it on with a 9'' roller 1/2 nap ,,and wipe down with a 12'' broad knife [ beer monster calls them floor scrapers]..On ceilings I roll a square 10'x10' [just a quess] then wipe...I cut the edges of each square tight with a well filed 5 ..I never sand before the roll -n - wipe..only after to clean up the laps...
> 
> I mix N/G pro-form[black top] with USG plus 3 half-n-half.. It cuts the scratches down..We don't use the same muds ...so.
> ...


LOL Don't sweat it moore ! It was a compliment.
It's obvious you are very good at what you do and have mega experience. Level 5 is becoming more popular in Canada but has not been around as long as you guys in the US have been doing it as far as I know. So I'm assuming you have done quite a few level 5 finishes and probably have your own sure-fire way of dealing with it. Of course I know how to skim a wall but if there's a better way I'm all for it.

You're explanation is very good.:thumbsup: Thanks ! I may just tackle it all with my hawk and trowel. Shouldn't take too long. I'll see what kind of mood I'm in when I get to it.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

chris said:


> If painters havnt painted everything by Tuesday when we head back out I will do a quick vid if you like



That would be great chris !


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

mudslingr said:


> That would be great chris !


 Will be out tomorrow for sure. Partner has couple lids gettin close (from what he says:whistling2 Ive been tied up on other things and havnt been there this week yet but should be able to throw somethin together for ya. Those schools get old ...no radios,hardhats,pants,boots,dark,dirty,chit everywhere in way.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

My Dad finished out this garage for me..I drag him out of retirement when I get swamped..He's 66 .
This Is what his level 5 looks like.


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

moore said:


> My Dad finished out this garage for me..I drag him out of retirement when I get swamped..He's 66 .
> This Is what his level 5 looks like.


Good job sr


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

The roll and wipe method will probably work best for you. I find that with this method you really need 2 coats if you are wiping them tight. Nothing wrong with doing it with knife/trowel either. If you have access to a sprayer then you could spray thinned down mud or spray a level 5 surfacer such as sprayplast or Ruco equalizer plus.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> The roll and wipe method will probably work best for you. I find that with this method you really need 2 coats if you are wiping them tight. Nothing wrong with doing it with knife/trowel either. If you have access to a sprayer then you could spray thinned down mud or spray a level 5 surfacer such as sprayplast or Ruco equalizer plus.


 I don't care to soak the board with water.
Roll and wipe ,,Then dry it out ASAP!!!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> I don't care to soak the board with water.
> Roll and wipe ,,Then dry it out ASAP!!!


 We know your just coming out of the darkside,,,,hang in there,,,you'll catch up. LOL

Tools are made for a reason !!!!!:yes:


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## smokebuttjoint (Sep 13, 2012)

flat is flat. skim everything. L5 suck it!


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

moore said:


> My Dad finished out this garage for me..I drag him out of retirement when I get swamped..He's 66 .
> This Is what his level 5 looks like.


 hi moore you dad works hard 
was he a plasterer
all your ceiling are L5


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## spacklinfool (Sep 23, 2011)

I recently did a high level 5 job, and this is what I did...after 3 coats, I then striped lines with my 12"box, leaving a space between lines, I then followed up the next day striping between the first lines..I then repeated the process, crossing the opposite way..it looks like a tic-tac-toe board at first, but then after the final 12 box the wall is like glass, 1 220 sanding litely at end and awesomenesss!!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

spacklinfool said:


> I recently did a high level 5 job, and this is what I did...after 3 coats, I then striped lines with my 12"box, leaving a space between lines, I then followed up the next day striping between the first lines..I then repeated the process, crossing the opposite way..it looks like a tic-tac-toe board at first, but then after the final 12 box the wall is like glass, 1 220 sanding litely at end and awesomenesss!!!


That's what I would try doing if they wanted a L5 ceiling, use the 12" box, it would be bloody fast. Don't think I would want to do it on the walls though, I would be sore as hell the next day:blink:

Unless I made 2bjr do it:thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

spacklinfool said:


> I recently did a high level 5 job, and this is what I did...after 3 coats, I then striped lines with my 12"box, leaving a space between lines, I then followed up the next day striping between the first lines..I then repeated the process, crossing the opposite way..it looks like a tic-tac-toe board at first, but then after the final 12 box the wall is like glass, 1 220 sanding litely at end and awesomenesss!!!





2buckcanuck said:


> That's what I would try doing if they wanted a L5 ceiling, use the 12" box, it would be bloody fast. Don't think I would want to do it on the walls though, I would be sore as hell the next day:blink:
> 
> Unless I made 2bjr do it:thumbup:


would take way too much time and pain!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> would take way too much time and pain!


Ceilings are a breeze to do with boxes:thumbup:

I would run a 2 man system though, one guy on the 12" box, and another with a wiping knife on a pole to clean it up,,,, just a theory though. Ill test it out for you next week, see if it works. I can't see why it wouldn't:yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Dont do level 5 skimming with box. Use boxes on seams only unless you want your walls and ceilings to look like chit or you want to sand all that mud off. Boxes leave a fil even when tightened up. Years ago we had a guy think he knew what he was doing by skimming walls with his box. yeah it looks like youre getting it done fast and feels fast too but its the opposite of fast almost backwards. :yes: jmo


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

chris said:


> Dont do level 5 skimming with box. Use boxes on seams only unless you want your walls and ceilings to look like chit or you want to sand all that mud off. Boxes leave a fil even when tightened up. Years ago we had a guy think he knew what he was doing by skimming walls with his box. yeah it looks like youre getting it done fast and feels fast too but its the opposite of fast almost backwards. :yes: jmo


I agree my man ..does not sound like a good idea..i l5 a few walls in a house the outher day i sprayed orangepeel mud and wiped it back off and it worked really well and fast


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> Dont do level 5 skimming with box. Use boxes on seams only unless you want your walls and ceilings to look like chit or you want to sand all that mud off. Boxes leave a fil even when tightened up. Years ago we had a guy think he knew what he was doing by skimming walls with his box. yeah it looks like youre getting it done fast and feels fast too but its the opposite of fast almost backwards. :yes: jmo


Look Moore, Chris says it won't work, that means it should then:thumbsup:

It would depend on which box your using. if this guy your talking about, used anything other than a 12" box, then you would be right. But the 12" should be set up to run tighter than all other boxes.

If I remember right, Silver Stilts said he was doing it. ran his 12 once, let dry then ran over his lap marks. I'm looking to run it once, with a guy wiping down the lap marks.

We had to build out bad Certainteed board before (b/c of bad bevells) We skimmed out the joints with success on the joints a 24" wide (double 12"). But when you tried with the 10" box, it loaded a bit, instead of skimming tight.

It's all about the box size:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I played around with it ..10'' box left too much mud 
When I get A 12'' I'll give it a try...:yes: Seems like it would still leave alot of sanding tho..:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I played around with it ..10'' box left too much mud
> When I get A 12'' I'll give it a try...:yes: Seems like it would still leave alot of sanding tho..:blink:


Any box below a 12" box , has a bit more of a crown to it, smaller the box, the more of a crown. The 12" is the only box you MIGHT get straight from the factory, that you may half to adjust to your liking. Sometimes you half to adjust the springs, to get it running just perfect.

Plus the 12" box is a HUGE time saver, when it comes to skimming out your work, compared to hand bombing it:yes:

Just don't tell your wife, they can't tell the difference between 5, 7,8,10,12 inches anyhow:whistling2:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Ceilings are a breeze to do with boxes:thumbup:
> 
> I would run a 2 man system though, one guy on the 12" box, and another with a wiping knife on a pole to clean it up,,,, just a theory though. Ill test it out for you next week, see if it works. I can't see why it wouldn't:yes:


I tried it 2 different times with my 12" box first time i overlapped my boxing wiping it down, where the boxes overlapped it leaves a flat spot have to really buff it out used certainteed red, too much hassle then it's worth. Second time because i'm stubborn i pulled it again left a inch inbetween the passes and side swapped it. Sanded out beautifully that time was with machine mud. My take on it you need to use a soft mudsomething that can sand out easy. Hard muds too much sanding using 120 then buff out with 180.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

smisner50s said:


> I agree my man ..does not sound like a good idea..i l5 a few walls in a house the outher day i sprayed orangepeel mud and wiped it back off and it worked really well and fast


Yeah it works pretty well. We did a few different projects like this including about 300+ boards..... that was a pain! It is very very messy but comes out good if you time it right and have enough help. Next time we will just spray mud through our speedflo :yes:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Spray Final Coat made by Never Miss. Makes your mud flow and spray crazy good!


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Tim0282 said:


> Spray Final Coat made by Never Miss. Makes your mud flow and spray crazy good!


 
Thanks for the tip. Our supplier always has it at the front desk but we haven't fooled with it


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

If you spray mud for smooth finish, you will really like it.


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## Timpowers604 (Sep 18, 2010)

*Level 5 finish*

The key to any quality level 5 finish are the base coats. This is especially the case when the sun is involved. You must have a true plumb, level surface befor you even think of adding your finish coats. We first (after tape coat) fill all bevels and any other low spots with confill. We then feather edge the area flat again using confill. After it starts to set we will trowel out any ridges and touch up. The surface will then be sanded with 100 grit 3m foam back. Next we will trowel out the entire wall or ceiling approx 1/16-1/8". This coat is very important. When all wall and ceiling surfaces are dry we sand and run angles with a mechanical 3.5" flusher. We sand the entire surface with 120 grit. And quickly check over with a sponge, and light. Next we spray the entire wall and ceiling area (staying 1" out of the angles)with an airless and wipe off with a 10" pan and knife. Next we sand with 180 and light check. If this method is done properly it will take any paint finish under any lighting requirements. Fellas skim things a hundred times and get know where, or follow these easy steps to a flawless level 5 finish. I will post pics and vids soon.

MASTER DRYWALL SERVICES ltd


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Timpowers604 said:


> The key to any quality level 5 finish are the base coats. This is especially the case when the sun is involved. You must have a true plumb, level surface befor you even think of adding your finish coats. We first (after tape coat) fill all bevels and any other low spots with confill. We then feather edge the area flat again using confill. After it starts to set we will trowel out any ridges and touch up. The surface will then be sanded with 100 grit 3m foam back. Next we will trowel out the entire wall or ceiling approx 1/16-1/8". This coat is very important. When all wall and ceiling surfaces are dry we sand and run angles with a mechanical 3.5" flusher. We sand the entire surface with 120 grit. And quickly check over with a sponge, and light. Next we spray the entire wall and ceiling area (staying 1" out of the angles)with an airless and wipe off with a 10" pan and knife. Next we sand with 180 and light check. If this method is done properly it will take any paint finish under any lighting requirements. Fellas skim things a hundred times and get know where, or follow these easy steps to a flawless level 5 finish. I will post pics and vids soon.
> 
> MASTER DRYWALL SERVICES ltd


Holy Crap :blink::blink: Thats a huge amount of work, Multiiply that by many walls in a house and OMG

I dont dout it would work, And good for you it sounds great but in my world no way is anyone going to pay for all that.

I just level 4 it, Sand, The get a big wide paint roller and paint tray, Thin the mud till runny, roll some on the wall and trowel off with a big trowel, That will hunt out any lows or highs, by the time you have done a wall its dry enough to start again for a second coat if you want, Then when dry pole sand with 220 grit on a foam backed radius. You would be surprise just how much a team of two, One on the roller and one on a trowel can do in a day..........To easy :thumbsup:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Timpowers604 said:


> The key to any quality level 5 finish are the base coats. This is especially the case when the sun is involved. You must have a true plumb, level surface befor you even think of adding your finish coats. We first (after tape coat) fill all bevels and any other low spots with confill. We then feather edge the area flat again using confill. After it starts to set we will trowel out any ridges and touch up. The surface will then be sanded with 100 grit 3m foam back. Next we will trowel out the entire wall or ceiling approx 1/16-1/8". This coat is very important. When all wall and ceiling surfaces are dry we sand and run angles with a mechanical 3.5" flusher. We sand the entire surface with 120 grit. And quickly check over with a sponge, and light. Next we spray the entire wall and ceiling area (staying 1" out of the angles)with an airless and wipe off with a 10" pan and knife. Next we sand with 180 and light check. If this method is done properly it will take any paint finish under any lighting requirements. Fellas skim things a hundred times and get know where, or follow these easy steps to a flawless level 5 finish. I will post pics and vids soon.
> 
> MASTER DRYWALL SERVICES ltd


Get a bag of multi finish and go on a plastering coarse!!! Sh*t i would still b in the same house this time next year!!!!:blink:
Dont get me wrong i bet ur walls r like glass:thumbsup: But 2 make money that is a no go!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> Holy Crap :blink::blink: Thats a huge amount of work, Multiiply that by many walls in a house and OMG
> 
> I dont dout it would work, And good for you it sounds great but in my world no way is anyone going to pay for all that.
> 
> ...





VANMAN said:


> Get a bag of multi finish and go on a plastering coarse!!! Sh*t i would still b in the same house this time next year!!!!:blink:
> Dont get me wrong i bet ur walls r like glass:thumbsup: But 2 make money that is a no go!


I'm with you on that!


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## smokebuttjoint (Sep 13, 2012)

L5 with boxs! have fun sanding. is that hard to run a trowel. every tool has its purpose. :blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

smokebuttjoint said:


> L5 with boxs! have fun sanding. is that hard to run a trowel. every tool has its purpose. :blink:


Were talking just on the ceilings for Moore, that way, he won't drag in his poor retired father, who Moore slave drives:jester:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

moore said:


> would take way too much time and pain!


Not necessarily, it would depend on the scope of the job. Normally, the entire project doesn't need a L5, just specific areas. If it were a LARGE job, and you are going to be there for an extended time, I would think that doing a ceiling with a 12" box could easily be worked into the job.

Remember these coats are very thin, so given the right conditions you could, in theory, do an entire ceiling striped out both directions in one day. 

Heat, fans, and a dehumidifier!:yes:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Timpowers604 said:


> The key to any quality level 5 finish are the base coats. This is especially the case when the sun is involved. You must have a true plumb, level surface befor you even think of adding your finish coats. We first (after tape coat) fill all bevels and any other low spots with confill. We then feather edge the area flat again using confill. After it starts to set we will trowel out any ridges and touch up. The surface will then be sanded with 100 grit 3m foam back. Next we will trowel out the entire wall or ceiling approx 1/16-1/8". This coat is very important. When all wall and ceiling surfaces are dry we sand and run angles with a mechanical 3.5" flusher. We sand the entire surface with 120 grit. And quickly check over with a sponge, and light. Next we spray the entire wall and ceiling area (staying 1" out of the angles)with an airless and wipe off with a 10" pan and knife. Next we sand with 180 and light check. If this method is done properly it will take any paint finish under any lighting requirements. Fellas skim things a hundred times and get know where, or follow these easy steps to a flawless level 5 finish. I will post pics and vids soon.
> 
> MASTER DRYWALL SERVICES ltd


If you are going to go through all of that, you might as well hang blue board and veneer plaster the job.

We are talking skimming out, aka very thin coats, just to even out the porosity as to eliminate flashing. 

To me, your way of doing things seems more like texturing, but leaving a smooth surface. Seems like a waste of time, effort, and material.

*steps up on soapbox*

IMO, it is not my/our job to straighten/flatten out walls. We are there to hide the seams, etc etc. If you want truly FLAT walls or ceilings, then start with PERFECT framing. I shouldn't have to pack 3/4"+ from the middle of a room to a corner just to straighten a wall, and if I do, best be prepared to break out the checkbook.

*climbs down from soapbox*


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## Toolnut (Aug 17, 2012)

Has anyone run that new ultra light mud with the puke green lid in their boxes? It's already pretty thin and easy to sand.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

fr8train said:


> If you want truly FLAT walls or ceilings, then start with PERFECT framing. I shouldn't have to pack 3/4"+ from the middle of a room to a corner just to straighten a wall


I was out of town last week doing a commercial reno, and there was a decently wide bulkhead over some stairs that was going to look bad if a bunch of mud wasn't added to it to get it straightened out even half decently. Just some bad older framing, that new board was put on top of and shimmed half assed, because they didn't want to pay to have the thing straightened out properly. I refused, saying I was concerned the thing might come down on someone from all the mud weight, and told the other taper he could fix it if he wanted and put his name to it.

I also wasn't going to spend my time trying to straighten out crap like that, that could've been, should've been, fixed properly.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

IMO, it is not my/our job to straighten/flatten out walls. We are there to hide the seams, etc etc. If you want truly FLAT walls or ceilings, then start with PERFECT framing. I shouldn't have to pack 3/4"+ from the middle of a room to a corner just to straighten a wall, and if I do, best be prepared to break out the checkbook.



YES SIR!!! thank you!


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> That's what I would try doing if they wanted a L5 ceiling, use the 12" box, it would be bloody fast. Don't think I would want to do it on the walls though, I would be sore as hell the next day:blink:
> 
> Unless I made 2bjr do it:thumbup:


 
its not that bad...my arms burn a little but I like it


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## Timpowers604 (Sep 18, 2010)

Thank you for all the replies. I would have to totally disagree with the attitude that its not our problem to fix crooked walls or match ups etc. Put a price on it and fix it. Secondly In most cases I would agree that all that is required is a good wide couple of coats by trowel and a good roll/spray on and wipe off followed by a good sand/and light check(we run/boxes do pan and knife, but i feel it is only sufficient in warehouses, garages etc). But if you want that over the top finish the wall has to be flat. Call it plastering we can do that as well if your looking for a more durable finish. Im talking about perfect walls, suitable for any paint finish, or lighting.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Timpowers604 said:


> Thank you for all the replies. I would have to totally disagree with the attitude that its not our problem to fix crooked walls or match ups etc. Put a price on it and fix it.


Well if your putting a PRICE on it, then it's no longer a problem ,,,, is it:whistling2:

Guys like you scare the chit out of me in this trade. You don't know how to finish a level 4 job to make it pass, so you half to spiel a line of bull to customers, saying a level 5 is the only way to go. It's right up there with hand tapers who say the machines can't do as good of job as their hand done jobs do (I could of said hand jobs:whistling2.

I don't mean to jump down your throat, but use the search button on this site, you may learn something. Maybe first find out what a level 5 job is suppose to achieve, it's not meant to fix a level 4 job either. There's cool products on the market to do level 5 work, and detailed methods on how to aid a level 4 job pass with PROPER painting techniques.

Knowledge is power:yes:


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Timpowers604 said:


> Thank you for all the replies. I would have to totally disagree with the attitude that its not our problem to fix crooked walls or match ups etc. Put a price on it and fix it. Secondly In most cases I would agree that all that is required is a good wide couple of coats by trowel and a good roll/spray on and wipe off followed by a good sand/and light check(we run/boxes do pan and knife, but i feel it is only sufficient in warehouses, garages etc). But if you want that over the top finish the wall has to be flat. Call it plastering we can do that as well if your looking for a more durable finish. Im talking about perfect walls, suitable for any paint finish, or lighting.


I only did it becouse it was a steel stud walls and they did not have all the screws in all the way  and if you tryed to fix them they would just spin so on the first coat i built them up with mud then boxed over them... ya and he did not like the bill but he loved the flat walls


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## Timpowers604 (Sep 18, 2010)

Thats funny I feel the same way about guys like you. I work on projects where excuses don't count for much. Projects where the architecture matters. I think you missed where I said I mainly agree with you or who ever said it. A couple of Box coats and a few paint trays full of mud is more than a enough on most projects. It looks like I made my comment In the wrong section. Also before you say I don't know what Im talking about I'll post some pictures from houses we are working on completed in the last few years. I encourage you to do the same.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Timpowers604 said:


> I'll post some pictures from houses we are working on completed in the last few years. I encourage you to do the same.


I take that your talking to me:whistling2:

I'll anti up your pictures, and encourage you to post some vids like I have:yes:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Here we go - 2buck is wanting a pissing match with someone again. 


Easy on em 2buck, he is from the smart side of the country.


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## spacklinfool (Sep 23, 2011)

Toolnut said:


> Has anyone run that new ultra light mud with the puke green lid in their boxes? It's already pretty thin and easy to sand.


Yes indeed!! I ran my 12 with it the other day and it came out nice..I also combined it with plus 3 and that came out even better!!! So try mixing the lt weight and plus 3 to polish..


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