# Job Advice in SF



## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

Hey all, looking for some independent feedback on a job. Lots of cracking all over a San Francisco loft condo building. The job is to repair what you see and more. I would like to get to the root causes so the customer doesn't have the cracks return in short order. Customers say the drywall cracks and blisters started about 7 years ago. The building was built in 1999. There is plywood sheer wall under all the drywall in the main entry and some of the stairwells and main common area floors. The foundation is a solid. The walls are actually quite straight and flat for such large expanses. Suggestions for general repair strategy are greatly appreciated!

Take a look at pictures from a home owner:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150811441689056.499130.548904055&type=3&l=abe484a4b1


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

seems like a Ap mud job, what part of glue mud did he not understand, in a stair well with High ceiling there should be expansion Joint, not sure why the painter did not catch the bubble when painting:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

How soon did this all happen? 
The frame? wood:yes:
Did the slicks [email protected] it in 3 days?
Looks like a job that was PUSHED OUT.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*Info*

Hey guys, should have been more specific. The job is to repair what you see and more. I am wondering what could have caused what you see in case I should recommend more than just a cosmetic fix. The customers say the cracks and blisters started about 7 years after construction. The building is wood on a concrete pedestal.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

They look like stress cracks to me. The pic of the bead with the security camera beside it looks like the bead buckled. Could be a structural problem. Is it all in the same area of the house? Bad workmanship underneath the drywall? Framing? Foundation?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

it kind of looks like all round hackery. to be unhelpful and non specific. that many cracks in a building that new tells me there may have been more going on than just bad taping. has anyone ever tried to repair any of the cracks and have they re-appeared. if your lucky the settling is done and you can cut out the bad joints/rock and retape and maybe most won't re-appear. if you are unlucky and the building is poorly framed causing it to move excessively you may have to do more than a cosmetic fix and address some framing issues.
good luck. time and materials.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



fr8train said:


> They look like stress cracks to me. The pic of the bead with the security camera beside it looks like the bead buckled. Could be a structural problem. Is it all in the same area of the house? Bad workmanship underneath the drywall? Framing? Foundation?


Regarding the pic with the camera, yes, the bead did buckle. The point where the bead buckled is at the horizontal line where the stick framing starts. Below that is a 9" post tensioned slab built on 1 floor of rebar reinforced concrete block, which is on top of a 12" concrete footing. I've walked the foundation and walls - it appears solid. I wonder about moisture in the walls. Thanks for the input and keep the input coming.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

If you want the root cause then some of the problem is the boarding job around the door frames. Bad place to leave a joint.

Did it also occur to anyone that this is San Francisco and it could have been an earthquake?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Mudshark said:


> If you want the root cause then some of the problem is the boarding job around the door frames. Bad place to leave a joint.
> 
> Did it also occur to anyone that this is San Francisco and it could have been an earthquake?


I did think that, but I figured that was too obvious of an answer, buy ya never know. Maybe cracks from earthquakes are so commonplace out there that they never considered it as a possibility.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*Thanks*



carpentaper said:


> it kind of looks like all round hackery. to be unhelpful and non specific. that many cracks in a building that new tells me there may have been more going on than just bad taping. has anyone ever tried to repair any of the cracks and have they re-appeared. if your lucky the settling is done and you can cut out the bad joints/rock and retape and maybe most won't re-appear. if you are unlucky and the building is poorly framed causing it to move excessively you may have to do more than a cosmetic fix and address some framing issues.
> good luck. time and materials.


The structural plans show the tall entryway has sheer wall under all the drywall. I am wondering if all that weight of drywall is sagging if not nailed well. It doesn't appear any cracks have been repaired previously. Also, the roof was recently replaced. Another idea I have is that perhaps some moisture was in the structure and now it is drying out. Thanks for your input - keep the ideas coming.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



Mudshark said:


> If you want the root cause then some of the problem is the boarding job around the door frames. Bad place to leave a joint.
> 
> Did it also occur to anyone that this is San Francisco and it could have been an earthquake?


We get some shakes here and there. :thumbup: Anything below a 4 is ho-hum.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Mudshark said:


> If you want the root cause then some of the problem is the boarding job around the door frames. Bad place to leave a joint.
> 
> Did it also occur to anyone that this is San Francisco and it could have been an earthquake?


been to SF Mudshack so yipperoo the shakey Shakesters has occured to me


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

if it was me I would scratch back and leave a bit of a crater in those lines and load em up with 20 set, and tape with 20 set


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

robinasu said:


> The structural plans show the tall entryway has sheer wall under all the drywall. I am wondering if all that weight of drywall is sagging if not nailed well. It doesn't appear any cracks have been repaired previously. Also, the roof was recently replaced. Another idea I have is that perhaps some moisture was in the structure and now it is drying out. Thanks for your input - keep the ideas coming.


the roof thing is very true

with board not lifted of the ground at least a half and inch at floorlevel, problems start to happen


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## MacDry (Feb 1, 2010)

Now, im no engineer, but i just fixed a job that looked a lot like that. Foundation in and of itself was done well and inspected and blah blah. But the earth beneath it was basically sand, moved and shifted and BOOM! crack town. The guy showed me the entire parking lot, its all hills and wavey, said it used to be laser flat when they built the building 12 years ago.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



MacDry said:


> Now, im no engineer, but i just fixed a job that looked a lot like that. Foundation in and of itself was done well and inspected and blah blah. But the earth beneath it was basically sand, moved and shifted and BOOM! crack town. The guy showed me the entire parking lot, its all hills and wavey, said it used to be laser flat when they built the building 12 years ago.


I hear ya. Lots of settling in SF for sure. This building is on a hill and not fill. The post tensioned slab can be inspected from below in the parking area and there is no indication of cracking, so all looks well. I know what you mean though and I am keeping an eye out for anything odd. Thanks for the input.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

where was that job macdry. richmond or delta maybe?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

do you guys use vapour barriers/poly in SF. if it is required and was not done adequately then that could also be a factor. but it does look primarily structural. could be that a bunch of small earthquakes finally put it at its resting place.maybe around the seven year mark? bazooka joe had a good point about making sure the drywall is not resting on the slab. also expansion joints may have prevented a lot of those cracks in the foyer.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

In some of the pics,moisture does appear to be an issue.:yes:


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



carpentaper said:


> do you guys use vapour barriers/poly in SF. if it is required and was not done adequately then that could also be a factor. but it does look primarily structural. could be that a bunch of small earthquakes finally put it at its resting place.maybe around the seven year mark? bazooka joe had a good point about making sure the drywall is not resting on the slab. also expansion joints may have prevented a lot of those cracks in the foyer.


I would say there is a good amount of vibration from an elevated freeway nearby. Today I felt a vibration as a loaded truck rolled by. I think you are right about the expansion joints. I will check if the drywall is resting on the slab. Any other little tips like that come to mind?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

pre- fill all joints super level with something like durabond or ultrafill after thoroughly cutting out/ scraping/replacing( whatever each joint needs to make it right). getting it level and pre-filled is important. you want your tapes on as flat as possible(more important than usual). i would tape with durabond and fibafuse because i cant think of a harder joint to crack. i would also probably cut out the drywall around those doors and replace with a full sheet leaving the joints at least a few feet away from the opening. this is just how i personally would go about it but there are as many opinions here as there are members. so i'm interested to hear some others. by the way what are you an installer of?


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

When cracks open up like that in drywall theres no way its the finishers fault, if theres that much movement even if the drywall was one continuous sheet with no joins something would give somewhere and crack, I little bit of paper won't hold it back.

If it didnt crack in the first 7 years then it can't have been wet timber or drywall or a rushed finishing job etc...would have cracked long before 7 years.
As someone else said, its structural, no enough bracing or something.

Are there or have there been and sticking doors in the place over the years?
Be interesting to go round with a level and see how plum the walls are.

Are there any walls that haven't cracked?


Edit: They could always line over that drywall with sheets of MFD /customwood with beveled edges and paint that, atleast in the large ares, it will add bracing and if things move it won't show as the sheets have nice beveled joins between them anyway etc


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

May I suggest to have a few moisture readings done throughout the house @ various locations.That's where I would start.:yes:


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