# Bidding / Estimating Process



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I am curious how most of you all out there present your estimates... For me which i will go in detail later only break it down for cost (rock) Hanging , & finish (texture included ) I never give out a specific price per ft. and total quantities , again there is a reason several in fact ... I would like to hear some feedback on the subject... silverstilts aka the rock-doc


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Another point in the bidding process I have a $350.00 Minimum even if it is a 5 min to perhaps 4 hrs....4hrs-8hrs $800.00 (materials included) anything over that i figure accordingly , otherwise it is only a waste of my time , You have time accumulating from the very first phone call or conversation no matter where it happens , to have my time it will cost you no freebies !!!


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> Another point in the bidding process I have a $350.00 Minimum even if it is a 5 min to perhaps 4 hrs....4hrs-8hrs $800.00 (materials included) anything over that i figure accordingly , otherwise it is only a waste of my time , You have time accumulating from the very first phone call or conversation no matter where it happens , to have my time it will cost you no freebies !!!



yea, i agree with you 110%, on how time on a job starts from that very first phone call.

for my company however, i have a $75/hour standard service charge, with a 2-hr minimum -- so, $150 min. per job.

now, this rate is only designated for, you know those tiny-shyt, small hole in the wall type patchjobs.......

usually jobs 2000 board sf and under, i'll price using this 75/hr rate...determining how im going to price the job.....then i see how that number looks, after all man hrs are calculated, and i adjust accordingly.

also, (i mentioned this on another forum i think already) right now especially, i completely dont mind the minor patches and repairs for homeowners........i can send my patchguy to patch and texture on one trip, less than 2 hrs then bill the HO 150 - 300 bucks........

if i could do 20 of these a week, hahhaha....no problem.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> I am curious how most of you all out there present your estimates... For me which i will go in detail later only break it down for cost (rock) Hanging , & finish (texture included ) I never give out a specific price per ft. and total quantities , again there is a reason several in fact ... I would like to hear some feedback on the subject... silverstilts aka the rock-doc


as far as overall presentation, i'm a stickler......

meaning, it has to look ultra-professional, period.

im competing with guys (i shyt you not) that freakin hand write their prices on yellow legal paper, and give this to the homeowner....all in the while, beating my price by 40% mind you.

so yea, especially now....im a HUGE HUGE stickler on how my proposals look.

as far as the details, i'll list the entire scope of work to be done, usually
in this fashion:

hanging
cornerbead
finishing
texture
options/additions etc etc


then with one price usually before i summarize the scope of work.

options/additions of course have their own seperate prices.

and yea, i NEVER breakdown the price of labor and materials....let alone, hanging, finishing, etc................but we already talked bout that.

the only time ill break down labor and materials, is if someone specifically asks..........and still, i hesitate.

however stilts, if you break down labor and materials, i dont think its necessarily bad, a lot of companies do this........but like i said in the other forum, why bother letting your customer know your true costs, especially if they never ask -- just unecessary.

and if they DO ask? i always lie, period.

similar to what you said stilts, right? except you said you 'never get specific'.....how it should be.

and i do the SAME thing, when it comes to sheetrock.....always saying how you 'order a little extra' to curious generals.......good way to cover yourself!


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Exactamundo , when i do break between the drywall itself i always add in a good 25 percent just for my markup it covers my expense of getting it there and ordering and all the other headaches involved... but still figure more on top of the actual job which never gets delivered , it is one way to stay ahead of the game and those who don't want to play along with me well too bad don't bother me none ..... I make up for it along the way..... I agree if asked what other materials run I either lie or tell them I don't believe its important for them to know.... I had one home owner figure out everything and he figured i was making $120 per hour ,,, he was close but I would not let him in on what i was really making.... got to make for me and my small crew at least 1500.00 per day to make things work out , which isn't to hard to do most times , name of the game stay on top and ahead of everyone.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Question:

I'd like to hear the various methods you guys use to bid interior cornerbead.

for example, do you guys bid strictly per linear feet that the job calls for...if so, roughly how much.

or do you guys just disregard linear feet and include that in your total sheetrock $/sf, etc.......

i use a combination of both. always good to hear how others do it.

(oh, and the rates for different types of cornerbead too.....standard to difficult types, etc)


----------



## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

I do everything from a detailed proposal ( for new cliants) to a number on a business card for people i know.Only been burned a couple times in 20 years too,(total of a couple thow.Guess i,m a lucky SOB in that respect.I just incude corners in the price on the bid sheet.


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

If there's a standard amount, nothing in excess. If there's massive bead, it's on!


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Either a footage price x's total (padded) footage + extras (bull-nose, pita bs, etc. or a single number(always odd like -- $9876.00. Keeps 'em guessing. Never, ever break out materials. Mostly, if they ask if they can purchase materials, I usually tell them I wouldn't be interested in doing it that way, unless they want to babysit the job and run after shortage board when they f-up the quantities or get the wrong mud, etc.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Either a footage price x's total (padded) footage + extras (bull-nose, pita bs, etc. or a single number(always odd like -- $9876.00. Keeps 'em guessing. Never, ever break out materials. Mostly, if they ask if they can purchase materials, I usually tell them I wouldn't be interested in doing it that way, unless they want to babysit the job and run after shortage board when they f-up the quantities or get the wrong mud, etc.


hear that....

i love odd numbers btw, hahah..........for the main point that, yea, it keeps em guessing!


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Whitey97 said:


> If there's a standard amount, nothing in excess. If there's massive bead, it's on!


yea, this is roughly how i do it.

if its standard amnt of bead, i include it all in my standard price / sf....

and yea, if theres a special type, like kerf on doors/windows, or like u said...a 'massive' amnt....then i make sure to count the lineage of all the bead, and cross check my numbers, etc.....


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe this one deserves its own thread...Just got a call from a HO who let his low-bidder and friend tape his basement. Looks like a$$ now, used mesh tape with all-purpose and only a 6" on the flats. Going to look tomorrow. What sort of number? Am thinking at least $2500-3000. Probably 3 (short) days for 3 guys.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe this one deserves its own thread...Just got a call from a HO who let his low-bidder and friend tape his basement. Looks like a$$ now, used mesh tape with all-purpose and only a 6" on the flats. Going to look tomorrow. What sort of number? Am thinking at least $2500-3000. Probably 3 (short) days for 3 guys.


 Look like it's HO's time to live and learn. Screw em.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe this one deserves its own thread...Just got a call from a HO who let his low-bidder and friend tape his basement. Looks like a$$ now, used mesh tape with all-purpose and only a 6" on the flats. Going to look tomorrow. What sort of number? Am thinking at least $2500-3000. Probably 3 (short) days for 3 guys.


i agree with A+.

btw, this is GREAT to hear, sorry hahhahahhahha.........darren, u gotta find out how much that stupid HO got the job done for.

6" on the flats! wow.....

man, i have my finishers go nearly 3-4 feet on flats, at the minimum.

6" is pathetic....gotta be an amateur job. HO probably paid like 300 bucks for the whole thing.

id say stick to a $2800 minimum...lookin to get 3500, hah.

fckk em.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Probably 3 (short) days for 3 guys.


whats the total bd sf darren?

i doubt even three guys!


----------



## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> i agree with A+.
> 
> btw, this is GREAT to hear, sorry hahhahahhahha.........darren, u gotta find out how much that stupid HO got the job done for.
> 
> ...


With the mud here you can do that but no way with all purpose. Like I said before no Tape if your going 3 to 4 feet what a lot of material. Kinda over doing it or. I can understand if the flats are offset. 12 to 24" is the standard.

Rebel


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Yeah, thinking I can send my touch-up guy 4 days on this. Didn't get the exact footage, guessing around 3K. The hack burnt 7 extra sheets hanging it too. And broke over doors, underfilled so that the casing shows a horrible gap. The I/S corners are atrocious too. Can't wait to go see this one. I live for this kind of $#it.


----------



## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Take pictures!


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

With the price of bead almost double in price from not so long ago I usually add in for excessive amounts , If there are arches , doorways , I add in $85 per opening , soffits try to get 1.50 a line ft. Bull-nose don't even want to go there thank god don't do much of it but will add in a generous amount , especially archways with the transition blocks and 90 degree corners ( total of 7 pieces per side to install with bead ) so time is money plus materials ... not uncommon to spend on an archway alone around 25$ just for the bead and transitional pieces , not to mention the mud , so of coarse charge accordingly... Labor alone from start to finish even 1 hour that has to be added in also .... So we should feel justified ..... Think about it this way what would the contractor have to pay for the oak to trim out a doorway ? I am sure it would run over double for the wood and labor..... I will not do it for free just so they can pocket the money.. Kinda like the GC that does not want to install baseboard but wants it finished to the floor how ridiculous is that ?? I have done a few of these over the years ( cheap bastards ) what a pain in the ass crawling around on your hands and knees making sure the void is filled in and dealing with all the crap , wood shavings & dirt still left on the floor.. Have any of you out there had to deal with this ??? We want it finished to the floor because we can't afford the base yet maybe in a couple of years we will put some in ,,,, Yea right ! CHEAP is what they are plain and simple...:furious:


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

rebel20 said:


> With the mud here you can do that but no way with all purpose. Like I said before no Tape if your going 3 to 4 feet what a lot of material. Kinda over doing it or. I can understand if the flats are offset. 12 to 24" is the standard.
> 
> Rebel


shoulda clarified, i mean only on my higher end customs i do this.

production, is pretty standard 2'


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Can't wait to go see this one. I live for this kind of $#it.


:drink:

hahhahahh me too my man. me too!


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> ...Think about it this way what would the contractor have to pay for the oak to trim out a doorway ? I am sure it would run over double for the wood and labor.....


EXACTLY.

i had an estimator (when things were busy) and for some reason, i couldnt get the fkker to understand this concept!

especially on kerfed (non-casing) doors and windows......he would pu$$y out on charging for it, and i kept asking him WHY????

he would just answer "well boss, its just metal and mud.......how much more could the labor be??"

id tell him "listen buddy.....how much you think the damn GC is saving not casing out all the doors and windows in this house? can you imagine all the material and finishwork? i dont care HOW easy you think it is (and btw its not) you just gonna give away this stuff for free????"

i have a base price of nearly 200-250 bucks per door and window, depending on kerfed areas.

thanks for pointing this concept out Stilts.........it SEEMS obvious, but from a business standpoint, most people will over look it.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't overlook it, but the competition here all seems to throw at least the 1st three arches in for free. I only get an extra for it on owner/builder referral work. Thanks silver and Custom, I almost forgot how to spell the word EXTRA. It is rejoining my vocabulary_, I hope._


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Oh and the hack repair....T & M + 50%. Only 576 feet, not really even that much wrong. One man two full days. Guy didn't even spot the screws prior to shooting acoustic on the ceiling in the bathroom. Entire job, every screw broke paper, durock looked like a five year old installed it, not one screw set properly.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Oh and the hack repair....T & M + 50%. Only 576 feet, not really even that much wrong. One man two full days. Guy didn't even spot the screws prior to shooting acoustic on the ceiling in the bathroom. Entire job, every screw broke paper, durock looked like a five year old installed it, not one screw set properly.



there ya go.....1 guy, 2 days...knock that sucker out for cheap!

it surely sounds amateur.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

The builder here that was the "finish to the floor" builder is getting jobs done for about $1.10 a sq. ft. Kerf on every door, combo of 9, 10, 12' ceilings, a couple archways, hawk-n-trowel texture, patio lids and garage textured too. And of course finished to the floor. I figured about 11,000 bd ft. I thought $16k was fair, all inclusive. I saved their butts so they like me he told me he had a bid for $10.5, and $12K. I "adjusted" to $11.5. And I'm not the lowballer, I told him I never plan to be.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> The builder here that was the "finish to the floor" builder is getting jobs done for about $1.10 a sq. ft. Kerf on every door, combo of 9, 10, 12' ceilings, a couple archways, hawk-n-trowel texture, patio lids and garage textured too. And of course finished to the floor. I figured about 11,000 bd ft. I thought $16k was fair, all inclusive. I saved their butts so they like me he told me he had a bid for $10.5, and $12K. I "adjusted" to $11.5. And I'm not the lowballer, I told him I never plan to be.


man......for KERF, 1.10 is not high enough (for my area), buuuuut........its not BAD either, for this market.......

that kerf alone though, jeez.....i hate this when builders think kerfed doors and windows are 'not significant.'

again, 1.10 aint terrible, but i feel a house like that.....kerf, 9-12' clngs, arches......HAND texture (jeez)........should at the min 1.30/sf..........during the boom, a house like that would be 1.40 minimum in California at least.

A+, are these jobs somewhat 'production?'......will he give you volume at that 1.10/sf?? or is this a 1 or 2 time thing?


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> The builder here that was the "finish to the floor" builder is getting jobs done for about $1.10 a sq. ft. Kerf on every door, combo of 9, 10, 12' ceilings, a couple archways, hawk-n-trowel texture, patio lids and garage textured too. And of course finished to the floor. I figured about 11,000 bd ft. I thought $16k was fair, all inclusive. I saved their butts so they like me he told me he had a bid for $10.5, and $12K. I "adjusted" to $11.5. And I'm not the lowballer, I told him I never plan to be.


btw A+, that last part........man you came down like more than 30%?
from a business standpoint i would never personally come down that low, i feel it makes you look bad to the builder that you can even have that much room even.......let alone he can kind of figure your profit margins easier now........

BUUUUUT ...its sad because as bad as things are now, i CANT say i blame you, let alone that i myself wouldnt do the same thing...........hahahhahha......especially after knowing the range of the other bids.

if anything, i would assume hes lying, and that the 12k bid is in actuality 13.5 or 14k. thats just me though, i can be one negative SOB when it comes to business and being paranoid of being taken advantage of.

like i said, i ALWAYS expect the worst.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Hate to see A+ take a hit. If you gotta do it though, try to tie it to prompt payment or the like. Try get them to give you a little something in return. Just my .02


----------



## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

include your bead, zip strip etc into your base bid either sqft/ sheet. No coat, bullnose etc. is a " high end " product and billed at a premium. At least $1000.00 on an average house.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

The reason I went down that far was because I really didn't know where custom work was around here. I do know a 9' flats are about .90-$1, so I guessed from that. I won't get production work from these guys but I will get their work. The real hitch is their clients getting financing. But I am getting remodels from them so thats cool.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> The reason I went down that far was because I really didn't know where custom work was around here. I do know a 9' flats are about .90-$1, so I guessed from that. I won't get production work from these guys but I will get their work. The real hitch is their clients getting financing. But I am getting remodels from them so thats cool.


yea, good for u man...all the better. dont sweat it. right now, the best you can do is establish NEW relationships, and sounds like u are................no one is 'making money' rite now anyways.

9' flats, .90 - a buck/sf is not bad in this economy. but this in no way includes hand texture.


----------

