# Drywall glues



## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

What type of glue to you use and why?

I like DAS20, it has not been in my market for the past 10+ yrs. I talk with the rep today about getting it back. OSI f-38 just not the same. Open time is less and not as tacky. The geenguard (low-voc) is very bad! They take all the good stuff out of our materials and expect them to preform the same...ugh


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## OtherbrotherMoore (May 25, 2017)

Cletus said:


> What type of glue to you use and why?  <br>I like DAS20, it has not been in my market for the past 10+ yrs.  I talk with the rep today about getting it back.  OSI f-38 just not the same.  Open time is less and not as tacky. The geenguard (low-voc) is very bad! They take all the good stuff out of our materials and expect them to preform the same...ugh  <br>


Got myself in a scrape. Had only reg mud so I dropped a quarter of a cup of white glue worked well


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Cletus, I assume you are talking about glue when sheeting, not adding glue to your mud. Glue has been part of the code here in Australia for as long as I can remember. We use an acrylic glue of which there are quite a few brands. I prefer the CSR Gyprock brand and the sausages rather than the tubs. Here is a link to what we use.

http://www.gyprock.com.au/Pages/Products/Adhesives-Sealants/Stud-Adhesive.aspx


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

gazman said:


> Cletus, I assume you are talking about glue when sheeting, not adding glue to your mud. Glue has been part of the code here in Australia for as long as I can remember. We use an acrylic glue of which there are quite a few brands. I prefer the CSR Gyprock brand and the sausages rather than the tubs. Here is a link to what we use.
> 
> http://www.gyprock.com.au/Pages/Products/Adhesives-Sealants/Stud-Adhesive.aspx


Interesting? here in the US we can use glue to reduce the amount of fastners used or not use it. Here in the Western US glue is not used where in the Eastern US it is. I wonder what the technical advantage is to using it even on metal studs? My thought would be the oils used in rolling the studs would reduce the adhesion.
The sausages would be way faster and hopefully you have a battery powered applicator?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> Interesting? here in the US we can use glue to reduce the amount of fastners used or not use it. Here in the Western US glue is not used where in the Eastern US it is. I wonder what the technical advantage is to using it even on metal studs? My thought would be the oils used in rolling the studs would reduce the adhesion.
> The sausages would be way faster and hopefully you have a battery powered applicator?



Never found the need for a battery powered applicator. Quick enough with the hand operated one and honestly requires very little effort.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

MrWillys said:


> Interesting? here in the US we can use glue to reduce the amount of fastners used or not use it. Here in the Western US glue is not used where in the Eastern US it is. I wonder what the technical advantage is to using it even on metal studs? My thought would be the oils used in rolling the studs would reduce the adhesion.
> The sausages would be way faster and hopefully you have a battery powered applicator?


 Funny thing MrW, glue was introduced to the market as a labor saver, not extra hold. We don't glue our ceilings, Because im not going to put less than 5 across even if i use glue on ceiling, so there is no advantage. However it does provide extra hold, and cut back on pops...it was not the main reason it was introduced into the market. Dont use the low-voc stuff...read the test study USG put out a few years back
http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...-issues-eccomendations-white-paper-WB2757.pdf


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Funny thing MrW, glue was introduced to the market as a labor saver, not extra hold. We don't glue our ceilings, Because im not going to put less than 5 across even if i use glue on ceiling, so there is no advantage. However it does provide extra hold, and cut back on pops...it was not the main reason it was introduced into the market. Dont use the low-voc stuff...read the test study USG put out a few years back
> http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...-issues-eccomendations-white-paper-WB2757.pdf


 Simply put, bad glue!

I have laminated a lot of drywall. Ames even makes a box to apply mud to the back side of drywall. I did a Marriott back in the mid 80's where all the walls were CMU blocks and we laminated 3/8" drywall to all exposed surfaces.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

The USG pdf explains why "screw buttons" happen! We went thru a few year of this crap and countless hours scraping little raised screw heads...ugh. We need to get together and file a class action lawsuit for this BS!


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Glue is in our standards over here we never have a problem with screws popping because of the glue 


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Wonder what we have that would be similar to y'all's acrylic glue? FRP adhesive? The foam glue for drywall sucks.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

Aussiecontractor said:


> Glue is in our standards over here we never have a problem with screws popping because of the glue
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Your govt hasn't taken all the good stuff out of it yet?


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

You know its just this brain of mine that just keeps thinking...can't shut it off, but wouldn't it be good to have a glue that rolls on?...like with a small roller on a 4' pole out of bucket. Keeping to buildup to a minimum...application would be fast, maybe messy! also glue would have to be fluid enough to do so...just a thought. We put it on and board squishes it out. Why not put on already squished..lol


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Your govt hasn't taken all the good stuff out of it yet?


not yet.....but because you can't trust it ..... [email protected] them and do the best for you


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Cletus said:


> You know its just this brain of mine that just keeps thinking...can't shut it off, but wouldn't it be good to have a glue that rolls on?...like with a small roller on a 4' pole out of bucket. Keeping to buildup to a minimum...application would be fast, maybe messy! also glue would have to be fluid enough to do so...just a thought. We put it on and board squishes it out. Why not put on already squished..lol


1/4 '' bead ! it'll squish and stick !


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> Interesting? here in the US we can use glue to reduce the amount of fastners used or not use it. Here in the Western US glue is not used where in the Eastern US it is. I wonder what the technical advantage is to using it even on metal studs? My thought would be the oils used in rolling the studs would reduce the adhesion.
> The sausages would be way faster and hopefully you have a battery powered applicator?


You don't glue board to metal studs ! idiot !!


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

moore said:


> 1/4 '' bead ! it'll squish and stick !



yea i know, just feel like we adopted the mastic type tube from other trades...maybe a better way to do it...but then again, maybe better to leave well enough alone. what rock you been hiding under moore?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Cletus said:


> what rock you been hiding under moore?


Mainly USG regular board !


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

moore said:


> You don't glue board to metal studs !


why? we are doing all the time here


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> You don't glue board to metal studs ! idiot !!


Thank for the love snookum's.


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> Thank for the love snookum's.


I thoroughly enjoy your sense of humor, Mr. Willys! :thumbup:


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

keke said:


> why? we are doing all the time here
> 
> I think its because on metal you will or should have no problems with nail pops, so there would be no advantage. Also, I think it was never adopted on metal because some commercial projects would have a screw inspection by the county or "in-house" inspection and could not cut down on number of screws, so again on advantage. Remember they sold us on glue not because we had a problem with drywall falling off the walls, but more so as a labor saver...less screws in field and less screws to spot


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

Cletus said:


> keke said:
> 
> 
> > why? we are doing all the time here
> ...


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Glue on metal would not meet the non combustable fire requirements here in the US. Materials used here must meet flame spread requirements. We even have special low voltage cabling to meet flame spread requirements.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

For long term i will but my trust in mechanical fastening...

"Adhesives are known to fail without fire present. We have all opened a 50-plus-year-old photo album or scrapbook and watched as the glue or paste used to attach the photos or clippings disintegrated. Anyone who has renovated an older home knows that the old wallpaper must be removed before the new paper is hung or the new paint is applied. Old wallpaper tends to become loose and to peel easily. The adhesive used to attach vinyl floor tile and sheet flooring can loosen with age.
Adhesives can be said to achieve their maximum strength at the time they finish curing and to gradually begin to lose their strength as they age. This aging is a combined function of age, seasonal and daily temperature changes, seasonal changes in humidity, exposure to ultraviolet light (sunlight), vibration, flexing (loading and unloading), wetting and drying cycles, and other stresses and factors. The more factors that are involved at a location and the more frequently they change, the more rapidly the adhesive will age and weaken.
Perhaps we can say that adhesives have a “half-life,” something like radioactive materials. After exposure to aging influences, adhesives will reach a point at which they will be only half as strong as they were at the time they finished curing, a point at which there no longer will be a safety factor. This half-life could be as short as a few minutes if the surfaces joined by the adhesive were not clean or properly prepared, if the adhesive was incompatible with either or both of the surfaces that were joined, or if the joint is severely overloaded. This half-life could be years or decades, depending on the strength of the adhesive bond and the aging influences present.
In any case, we need to be aware that today firefighters work inside structures that depend on adhesives for their stability and unity and that these adhesive bonds may not be as permanent as their manufacturers claim in advertisements."


http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2010/06/construction-adhesives-glues.html


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

In my experience our glue is very good IF USED ACCORDING TO CODE. I have removed board from homes that is 30 + old, and the glue has riped chunks out of the board and then has to be chiselled off the studs. There was a time here when guys figured that they would glue the field on ceilings nail the perimeter and nail 4 inch blocks of rock down the centre. After 48 hrs they would remove the nail and block and patch the remaining pin hole. This was thought to be a perfect cure for nail pops. All it resulted in was ceiling failures down the track, sometimes 1month other times a number of years. My theory is the time frame of the failure depended on the time frame before the block was removed wnd the atmospheric conditions at the time. As I said it needs to be done to code, no short cuts. On a 4 foot sheet we apply 4 dobs of glue and one centre screw (and obviously the perimeter screws) the glue is to be 8 inches away from the screw points. If the glue is near the screw it will cause pops. As the glue cures it shrinks causing the board to be pulled in closer to the substrate resulting in the mechanical fixing to protrude. 
As for using glue on steel, I have done hundreds of steel framed homes and used glue on every one of them without issues. Our timber framed homes use steel ceiling battens and glue is always used.

As Mr Willies said though glue CAN NOT BE USED IN FIRE RATED ASSEMBLY.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

i like the idea of glue!, and use it all the time I just don't put my faith in it...thats just me! We have no code when it comes to glue...i don't know how they would enforce it? Some county's have screw inspection..some don't...has anyone else heard of a code when it comes to glue in the good ole USA...in residential?

half-life
ˈhaf ˌlīf/
_noun_
noun: *half-life*; plural noun: *half-lifes*


the time taken for the radioactivity of a specified isotope to fall to half its original value.


the time required for any specified property (e.g., the concentration of a substance in the body) to decrease by half.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

One of us Should make a vid of ripping sheets of a glued ceiling or wall, that being said as gaz says it needs to be installed right.
I've fixed many boom time homes that are only 5 years old and ceilings have failed because glue daubs are to small or have been left to skin before the sheet has been installed.



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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Cletus said:


> i like the idea of glue!, and use it all the time I just don't put my faith in it...thats just me! We have no code when it comes to glue...i don't know how they would enforce it? Some county's have screw inspection..some don't...has anyone else heard of a code when it comes to glue in the good ole USA...in residential?
> 
> half-life
> ˈhaf ˌlīf/
> ...


 We have a US standard for glue and what I read is a bit different than down under. See page 9:
https://www.pabcogypsum.com/sites/default/files/GA-216-07.pdf


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

Aussiecontractor said:


> One of us Should make a vid of ripping sheets of a glued ceiling or wall, that being said as gaz says it needs to be installed right.
> I've fixed many boom time homes that are only 5 years old and ceilings have failed because glue daubs are to small or have been left to skin before the sheet has been installed.
> 
> 
> There is no doubt that glue holds, and holds very well...but did we start gluing because we were having drywall fall off the ceiling and walls, because screws were just not good enough? For example, i have a flip house from the late 40s, all nailed off, no glue...very few pops in the house..no loose rock. That scenario is not always the case. The question i was wondering has to do with long term hold. I have demo rock form the 70s glue was still holding good, also demo rock from last decade with glue and came off in a full sheet. I think application error is the biggest problem. I tend to over think chit when it comes to work...better to just go with the flow..i won't be here 50yrs so i guess it really does not matter:drink:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

As I've said we don't use glue out West. When I started we still nailed everything. We used a Yankee screwdriver with screws on pocket doors only because cordless drills hadn't come out. I think nails are more forgiving to seasonal shift of the structure vs screws. Screws make shear panels out of every sheet so more screws pop than nails.
I know most of you think I'm nuts but I'll go to my grave believing this. Just like fastners may be omitted at edges and ends of sheets to allow movement. I demo'd a corner once with no stud but the taping mud held that corner for over 20 years.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> As I've said we don't use glue out West. When I started we still nailed everything. We used a Yankee screwdriver with screws on pocket doors only because cordless drills hadn't come out. I think nails are more forgiving to seasonal shift of the structure vs screws. Screws make shear panels out of every sheet so more screws pop than nails.
> I know most of you think I'm nuts but I'll go to my grave believing this. Just like fastners may be omitted at edges and ends of sheets to allow movement. I demo'd a corner once with no stud but the taping mud held that corner for over 20 years.


If I had 10c for every nail that I have driven in I would not be working anymore.:yes:
The blokes that are hanging in front of me these days have collated screw guns. They screw all of the ceilings, but on the walls they nail the top and bottom plates and screw the rest. Definitely quicker in those positions where you are bending over or reaching up.
But one of the main issues as I see it with nails is that the rock can be crushed with the hammer blow at the time of installation. Granted with a true pro this is minimized, but with screws it doesn't happen at all.


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## Cletus (Jan 15, 2017)

gazman said:


> If I had 10c for every nail that I have driven in I would not be working anymore.:yes:
> The blokes that are hanging in front of me these days have collated screw guns. They screw all of the ceilings, but on the walls they nail the top and bottom plates and screw the rest. Definitely quicker in those positions where you are bending over or reaching up.
> But one of the main issues as I see it with nails is that the rock can be crushed with the hammer blow at the time of installation. Granted with a true pro this is minimized, but with screws it doesn't happen at all.


A good hanger know how to set a nail, and screws do fail if over driven. Like i tell my guys its not the tools fault, but the user. I do get what your saying tho gazman! There is more of a fine line when it comes to setting a nail


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Have seen houses built in the 50's where they used glue dobs and nails and there was hardly any nail pops at all. The places they demo'd came down in chunks. I think 60 years is pretty good for that glue. Not building monuments here. Houses will be demo'd and remodeled about every 20-30 years anyway. If glue lasts only 50 years then that is enough for most any circumstance.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

gazman said:


> If I had 10c for every nail that I have driven in I would not be working anymore.:yes:
> The blokes that are hanging in front of me these days have collated screw guns. They screw all of the ceilings, but on the walls they nail the top and bottom plates and screw the rest. Definitely quicker in those positions where you are bending over or reaching up.
> But one of the main issues as I see it with nails is that the rock can be crushed with the hammer blow at the time of installation. Granted with a true pro this is minimized, but with screws it doesn't happen at all.


And it is this crush that creates the flexability that I'm talking about. We have clay soil where I'm from and the soil swells in Winter and contracts in Summer which racks the structure.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> And it is this crush that creates the flexability that I'm talking about. We have clay soil where I'm from and the soil swells in Winter and contracts in Summer which racks the structure.


For the most part Scott I highly respect your opinion. But this time I must say. Put your hands in the air and step away from the bottle.:jester:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

gazman said:


> For the most part Scott I highly respect your opinion. But this time I must say. Put your hands in the air and step away from the bottle.:jester:


 It's actually early morning here Gary, but I'll respect your opinion to disagree! This post is at 5:22 am


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Cheers Scott, 10:49 pm here.:thumbsup:


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