# Rocked already



## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

I get these calls all the time.. I need a finisher to finisher the drywall. I had my guys hang the rock to keep them busy. His guys are carpenter. And they always want a good price. But we all know what it looks like.. :whistling2:
I think Iam going to not give a price and just say I will do it by the hour. And tell them it $XX per hr. plus mud and tape.. 
Do you think Iam being a prick? 
I look at it like this, they will pay there poop hands carpenter to tape it if I dont do it..


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

rockers are carpenters.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

Yes I agree. Union the rockers are carpenters. I use guys to hang my rock that are rockers and thats all they do.. There is a big differents. They my guys hang 100 plus boards a day. Thats two guys.. Its hard to find two union guys to hang 100 boards a day..Likely to get 70 boards out of 2 guys on a union job.


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

agree with you al taper 100%:thumbup:

dealing with one of those right now. i put a clause in my contract that before any finish work will begin i will reinspect the job sight and the price could change depending on the hanging.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

An example of carpenter finishing on a timber peg.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

I did a job over the summer. I had a union carpenter hang it for me. I was bugging the crap out of me for work.. So I gave him a job. It was like 58 board most of them where 12s and some 8s. We agreed on $12 a board. So it was $700 at the end to split him and his buddy.It was 2 day of work for them. He was fliping out because I got the screws from Home depot. He over cut the boxes and seems where miss placed.He left screws out and not set it right.Then at the end he tell me he did me a favor doing the job for $12 a board.
I couldnt tell him how to do it because he has been hang rock for 30 years.. Just because he has been doing it for 30 years dosent mean he has beening it right.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Exactly! Almost identical to what I say. "Just because you have done it wrong for 30 years does not make it right." I know a guy up here who is nervy enough to charge $25.00 an hour for finishing when he can't find anything else to do. This guy didn't even know what a banjo was made his own contraption out of plywood and a tape holder. Thing was hilarious put the tape on backwards. He's been doing his crappy wrong thing for 20 years and he's busy. WTF


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> Exactly! Almost identical to what I say. "Just because you have done it wrong for 30 years does not make it right." I know a guy up here who is nervy enough to charge $25.00 an hour for finishing when he can't find anything else to do. This guy didn't even know what a banjo was made his own contraption out of plywood and a tape holder. Thing was hilarious put the tape on backwards. He's been doing his crappy wrong thing for 20 years and he's busy. WTF


Not true. Here he is playing the banjo and hes not bad..


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Too Funny. This guy would give Larry the Cable Guy a run for his money. He doesn't own a shirt with sleeves. GIT R DONE!


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

:blink:


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

certainly, some union guys cannot hang in houses. But the ones i know, self included, have done plenty of house hanging before we joined the union. 2 guys 100 boards everyday ? i think you may be stretching the truth a wee bit...


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

I dont know how it is in NYC.. I know two guys that are union carpenter from the city... They can throw up the rock. They are from the Islands..Thight and every screw is right. 

D-rock.. U know there are guys out there that you have to hold there hands to do any work.. And its a shame..


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

If they hang their own board, I deduct only the $.xx per foot in labor + fasteners/glue I normally would pay (& cost of board). It'll cost that to rescrew the job and cut back all the wild o/s corners. They also get no warranty on our finish work. Cannot warranty our work atop a slop hang job. "please, sir, step awaaaay from the drywall..."


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

d-rock said:


> certainly, some union guys cannot hang in houses. But the ones i know, self included, have done plenty of house hanging before we joined the union. 2 guys 100 boards everyday ? i think you may be stretching the truth a wee bit...


If you have two guys that are getting paid by the board and not waiting for their 9 am break 1130 break 230 break then an hour putting crap away 100 a day is doable.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> If you have two guys that are getting paid by the board and not waiting for their 9 am break 1130 break 230 break then an hour putting crap away 100 a day is doable.


Who do you work with that takes that many breaks ? That's ridiculous. Union men take 1 break in the A.M. for coffee (15 mins), and lunch (1/2 hr). THAT'S IT. Somebody's been takin advantage of you..
100 boards a day by two men (50 boards per man) is do-able in long straight runs, corridors in schools and hospitals or hotels.(MAYBE). not typical commercial and CERTAINLY not homes, I don't care how much you pay per board. And by the way, paying an employee (who is on your books) by the piece is wrong IMO. A sub on the other hand can be paid by the piece. Don't knock union men if you have no idea what is what. I've worked both ends, and I've seen greatness and crap in both areas.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Al Taper said:


> I dont know how it is in NYC.. I know two guys that are union carpenter from the city... They can throw up the rock. They are from the Islands..Thight and every screw is right.
> 
> D-rock.. U know there are guys out there that you have to hold there hands to do any work.. And its a shame..


 You got it Al. Most of the guys are excellent, but many suck. Just like non union. :thumbsup:


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

d-rock said:


> Who do you work with that takes that many breaks ? That's ridiculous. Union men take 1 break in the A.M. for coffee (15 mins), and lunch (1/2 hr). THAT'S IT. Somebody's been takin advantage of you..
> 100 boards a day by two men (50 boards per man) is do-able in long straight runs, corridors in schools and hospitals or hotels.(MAYBE). not typical commercial and CERTAINLY not homes, I don't care how much you pay per board. And by the way, paying an employee (who is on your books) by the piece is wrong IMO. A sub on the other hand can be paid by the piece. Don't knock union men if you have no idea what is what. I've worked both ends, and I've seen greatness and crap in both areas.


WOW!! You sure did A$$UME a whole lot. No one who works for me breaks like that. Every carpenter here in Maine (who I have been on jobs with) who thinks they can hang board (hourly) does. Who said anything about paying an employee piece work?! Get some of that dust out of your eyes. Clean house with no crap in the way ready for rock 2 guys 100 boards no problem. Hell...I'm 50 and I can hang ten sheets an hour with my old lady. No one knocked anybody! CHILL OUT!


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> WOW!! You sure did A$$UME a whole lot. No one who works for me breaks like that. Every carpenter here in Maine (who I have been on jobs with) who thinks they can hang board (hourly) does.
> 
> Is that so ? They all work like that , except you of course, you and your old lady hang 100 boards a day :blink:
> You're the one that mentioned piece work, i just commented on that. By the way I wasn't ATTACKING you, but now that you mention it, i would bet $100 you can't put up 100 boards a day. Settle down.
> ...


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> WOW!! You sure did A$$UME a whole lot. No one who works for me breaks like that. Every carpenter here in Maine (who I have been on jobs with) who thinks they can hang board (hourly) does. Who said anything about paying an employee piece work?! Get some of that dust out of your eyes. Clean house with no crap in the way ready for rock 2 guys 100 boards no problem. Hell...I'm 50 and I can hang ten sheets an hour with my old lady. No one knocked anybody! CHILL OUT!


 By the way...10 sheets an hour is 80 brds a day..with 2 people that would be 40 per man. :smartass:


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

d-rock said:


> By the way...10 sheets an hour is 80 brds a day..with 2 people that would be 40 per man. :smartass:


I don't punch a clock.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

First board up at 10 till 7:00. 5 minute coffee. 15 minute lunch. A short afternoon and get the hell out of there. 80 sheets can be done if its not to cut up.

You also have to lock the doors and windows so no one will come and talk, unless you can hang sheet rock with your lips.
( Hopefully its all 1/2 " )


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Kick everyone and their crap off the job prior. They usually scatter anyways when the boom truck shows up


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> First board up at 10 till 7:00. 5 minute coffee. 15 minute lunch. A short afternoon and get the hell out of there. 80 sheets can be done if its not to cut up.
> 
> You also have to lock the doors and windows so no one will come and talk, unless you can hang sheet rock with your lips.
> ( Hopefully its all 1/2 " )


what time do u start ? if start time is 7AM, then you can't expect ur guys to begin set-up at 6:45. They begin set-up at 7, break for 10-15 mins around 9, then 1/2 hr lunch @ 12. Knock off at 3:15 to wrap up, out the door at 3:30. that's a fair 8 hr day. I would never work for an employer with 15 minute lunches and 5 minute coffee, why would I expect someone else to ? Also, if you're getting paid from 7-3:30, why would you start work earlier ? We as business owners may not punch a clock, and our business is the most important thing to us, but our employees have their own lives and are entitled to a fair 8 hr day. Otherwise we should pay time and a half when we want them to do extra hours.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

d we are on to totally seperate pages. Geez you'd really have a fit if you saw me walk on a job and box the whole thing in an hour and leave for the rest of the day. Alot of times I will go in on the weekends hanging and finishing just so nobody is in my way and I am not in theirs. I'm not talking about hourly work I am strictly talking piece work. Just marching to the beat of a different drummer and it ain't to bad.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

No doubt, whatever makes money for you and makes you happy. That works for you, but I'm talking about employees and what we as business owners expect from them, or what we consider a "day". When I price work , I base production on an 8 hr day. I've never done piece work.


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## rckslash2010 (Mar 15, 2009)

I used to put up 100 sheets a day. Just me and a helper. He worked for me for 3 years so he knew what to expect from me. We would start at 7 and work until 5 or 5:30 or when ever I got sick of being there. We didn't do this everyday. But on most houses we could, if it wasn't to cut up.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

rckslash2010 said:


> I used to put up 100 sheets a day. Just me and a helper. He worked for me for 3 years so he knew what to expect from me. We would start at 7 and work until 5 or 5:30 or when ever I got sick of being there. We didn't do this everyday. But on most houses we could, if it wasn't to cut up.


in a 10 hr day, that's 50 boards per man. that's 5 boards per hour. that is realistic. I generally find 1 man does an average of 30 boards per day (8 hrs) unless it's wide open and not cut up, then maybe 50.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Also in commercial, it's never straight ahead. There is always stopping to tie in corners and address framing issues or insulation. On residential, the framing is already (or should be) buttoned up 100%.


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## rckslash2010 (Mar 15, 2009)

d-rock said:


> Also in commercial, it's never straight ahead. There is always stopping to tie in corners and address framing issues or insulation. On residential, the framing is already (or should be) buttoned up 100%.


When I was doing commercial, the most I stood up was 85 sheets of 10 footers, by myself. The thing is, it took me 3 day's to top all of them off.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

rckslash2010 said:


> When I was doing commercial, the most I stood up was 85 sheets of 10 footers, by myself. The thing is, it took me 3 day's to top all of them off.


lol don't I know


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Rockers are rockers. Framers are framers,wood or metal. Trim carpenters are trim carpenters. There is overlap where some rockers are also framers or trim carpenters or vice versa. Same with finishers. It all depends on the experience of the individual. A bird can dive underwater but its not suddenly a fish. To quote a role model of mine" Sticking a feather in your butt does NOT make you a chicken". I'm not knocking anybody,everyone is great at something and good ,pretty good or passable at others. I am a Rocker,I can frame both metal and wood to some extent,finish to a decent result at a much slower rate than a finisher and can manage some trimout. I can also hand finish concrete,lay block/brick/stone,operate a roller,paver,backhoe,loader or forklift. By no means would I qualify myself as a Framer,Trim Carpenter,Finisher,Concrete Finisher,Mason or Operator....I just dont have the long term experience to claim more than 'some experience' on them. I get tired of hearing about how anyone can hang drywall.Every other trade wants to hang rock when they get slow. I love watching what happens when an 'instant hanging crew' comes up against a sprawling continous ceiling with lots of islands,bumpouts, stud direction changes and metal beams/hangers....they cant even run the router straight to cut in the overlap let alone not NEED the router:whistling2:. Sorry for the rant,I've been listening to amatuers talk about what they built/hung alot lately.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

d-rock said:


> what time do u start ? if start time is 7AM, then you can't expect ur guys to begin set-up at 6:45. They begin set-up at 7, break for 10-15 mins around 9, then 1/2 hr lunch @ 12. Knock off at 3:15 to wrap up, out the door at 3:30. that's a fair 8 hr day. I would never work for an employer with 15 minute lunches and 5 minute coffee, why would I expect someone else to ? Also, if you're getting paid from 7-3:30, why would you start work earlier ? We as business owners may not punch a clock, and our business is the most important thing to us, but our employees have their own lives and are entitled to a fair 8 hr day. Otherwise we should pay time and a half when we want them to do extra hours.


I thought you are a union guy.. Isnt NYC on 7 hr work day?


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