# Cracks when using Sheetrock lightweight plus 3 - experience



## KiwiInNorway

Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping. 

It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.

Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.

Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?

Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.


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## VANMAN

KiwiInNorway said:


> Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping.
> 
> It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.
> 
> Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?
> 
> Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.


My guesse is that the homax is the problem! Not enough mud 2 fill the gap between the boards! I could b way off but only a thought!:blink:
I used it lots for taping and no probs!


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## boco

I would say not enough mud to fill the gap in bevel between boards, Homax works as well as the plus 3. Dont use them much anymore but when in a pinch i do. In this case i would cut out the old tape with an exacto knife and inspect the board and the removed tape. Also push hard on the sheetrock to see if the nails/screws are popped and the board isnt moving.


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## Square Foot

Yes, yes...lightweight mud for taping. 

Suggestion....next job, leave a slight tab of tape sticking out at each corner. When dry, grab the tab and yank. Repeat process as needed


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## Mr.Brightstar

KiwiInNorway said:


> Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping.
> 
> It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.
> 
> Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?
> 
> Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.


By the look of the picture was the tape maybe put on backwards?


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## 2buckcanuck

KiwiInNorway said:


> Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping.
> 
> It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.
> 
> Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?
> 
> Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.


Maybe your guys are right, not sure, we don't have your type mud in Banada, I had to Google it. http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-plus-3-lightweight-all-purpose-joint-compound.html

Is this suppose to be a all purpose mud, or a topping mud, they seem to imply AP:blink: maybe add some white glue or mud max to it next time.

Do what Boco says, that will let you know if it was a environment thing (damp gypsum), or improper mud installation.

Also, you say some cracks, is this a ceiling, walls? if ceiling was CD board used, if walls , was it on a bearing wall.....?

I always use to shout "foundation and up" at the newbs when teaching, another way of saying your first step affects your second step.

So if CD board was a foundation:whistling2:

Cd board can have a bad rounded bevell to it, so to begin your foundation, you might half to lay done some gravel (pre-fill) first. Then with a good mixture of gravel (paper tape), mixed with cement (good taping mud with lots of glue), you put in footing. now you have a good foundation to build cement or wood walls (coating/bedding your joint). If a cement wall, you can parge over your walls with a sand/cement mix (use a topping mud). Scuff parging with piece of carpet (sanding).

If you start your foundation with some parging cement, whats going to happen:whistling2:


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## br549

KiwiInNorway said:


> Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping.
> 
> It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.
> 
> Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?
> 
> Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.



I'll use +3 or Lite Blue for final coat skimming (until I have a power sander). I don't see how they can be advertised as "all purpose" mud, I have never taped with it and never will. Same goes for Lite Blue. 

Try this. Drop 2 blobs of mud on the floor so they pancake. 1 blob of +3 or Lite Blue and another of regular heavy weight all purpose mud. Next day when they're dry scrape 'em up and snap them both in half. The +3 will break easily... and the all purpose will be a son of a b!tch to snap. Your guys sound right on, lightweight mud is great for skimming but it's too weak for taping, regardless of it being labeled as "all purpose".


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## moore

br549 said:


> I'll use +3 or Lite Blue for final coat skimming (until I have a power sander). I don't see how they can be advertised as "all purpose" mud, I have never taped with it and never will. Same goes for Lite Blue.
> 
> Try this. Drop 2 blobs of mud on the floor so they pancake. 1 blob of +3 or Lite Blue and another of regular heavy weight all purpose mud. Next day when they're dry scrape 'em up and snap them both in half. The +3 will break easily... and the all purpose will be a son of a b!tch to snap. Your guys sound right on, lightweight mud is great for skimming but it's too weak for taping, regardless of it being labeled as "all purpose".


 ..:yes::yes:


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## boco

I know a few companies around here that use plus 3 for the entire job. I have seen them after and TBH they look pretty good. I prefer green top for everthing but screws and 1 side of angle. There i use plus 3. The good points for the plus3 is less shrinkage, dries fast and sands easy The negatives are that its doesnt adhere as well as green or taping mud, delayed shrinkage and its very soft. Overall its a decent product but I would still prefer the green for appying tape. If you do use it for tape or trimtex add muddmax or glue.


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## Mudslinger

boco said:


> I know a few companies around here that use plus 3 for the entire job. I have seen them after and TBH they look pretty good. I prefer green top for everthing but screws and 1 side of angle. There i use plus 3. The good points for the plus3 is less shrinkage, dries fast and sands easy The negatives are that its doesnt adhere as well as green or taping mud, delayed shrinkage and its very soft. Overall its a decent product but I would still prefer the green for appying tape. If you do use it for tape or trimtex add muddmax or glue.


Gotta agree with you, sometimes you have no choice so glue is your best friend. When I was working in northern North Dakota I had Plus 3, and Lite Blue to choose from end of story lol.


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## boco

My local SWP just starting carrying the midweight(purple) and (gold) top ultra lightweight. i really like the midweight for bead the gold top skims out nice but i dont use it cause its more expensive. USG green is still the best but the other options work too.


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## DrywallerDustin

We tried plus 3 to tape once, only once, we had adhesion problems and I would bet this is related to the lack of glue in the plus 3. Now I never use anything less than full weight AP to tape with


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## Mudshark

Not sure what your suppliers stock for you in Norway but I think people have to stop pissin around with muds to tape that are not specically meant as taping mud. If you use half ass products you get half ass results.


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## Mudshark

Oh and Kiwi in Norway - tell your government over there to get those damn Norwegian owned Salmon Farms out of British Columbia. They are destroying our WILD SALMON stocks.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudshark said:


> Oh and Kiwi in Norway - tell your government over there to get those damn Norwegian owned Salmon Farms out of British Columbia. They are destroying our WILD SALMON stocks.


I found this just for you Mudshark :thumbup: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Protest-Signs

Happy Birthday


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## Deezal

2buckcanuck said:


> Maybe your guys are right, not sure, we don't have your type mud in Banada, I had to Google it. http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-plus-3-lightweight-all-purpose-joint-compound.html
> 
> Is this suppose to be a all purpose mud, or a topping mud, they seem to imply AP:blink: maybe add some white glue or mud max to it next time.
> 
> Do what Boco says, that will let you know if it was a environment thing (damp gypsum), or improper mud installation.
> 
> Also, you say some cracks, is this a ceiling, walls? if ceiling was CD board used, if walls , was it on a bearing wall.....?
> 
> I always use to shout "foundation and up" at the newbs when teaching, another way of saying your first step affects your second step.
> 
> So if CD board was a foundation:whistling2:
> 
> Cd board can have a bad rounded bevell to it, so to begin your foundation, you might half to lay done some gravel (pre-fill) first. Then with a good mixture of gravel (paper tape), mixed with cement (good taping mud with lots of glue), you put in footing. now you have a good foundation to build cement or wood walls (coating/bedding your joint). If a cement wall, you can parge over your walls with a sand/cement mix (use a topping mud). Scuff parging with piece of carpet (sanding).
> 
> If you start your foundation with some parging cement, whats going to happen:whistling2:


I get that rounded bevel stuff alot, especially with 5/8 "54" board. I always whip up some confill (or ultrafill in the states as I've so been informed) else I find my tapes beading out slightly along it. :thumbsup:


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## Checkers

Have you been noticing this on butt joints and not flats?





KiwiInNorway said:


> Have noticed some very slight cracks using lightweight plus 3 when taping.
> 
> It was fairly cold here and I am thinking that it was not 100% dry when the 2nd coat went on.
> 
> Feedback from my guys is that the mud was not sticky enough. They seem to think it is Ok for skimming but no good for taping.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience of the same problems when taping with this product?
> 
> Used a Homax and paper tape - water down the mud and mixed thoroughly.


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## KiwiInNorway

Checkers said:


> Have you been noticing this on butt joints and not flats?


Have done some serious soul searching and investigation.

It looks like the blame can be placed on the muppet weilding the bazooka (that might be me :whistling2.

Have had to cut out a number of "cracks" that really turned out to be dry bubbles behind the tape.

My wipers have no experience using paper tape, so this is really a tough learning curve for us all.

Yesterday's lesson for me was that when you put the bazooka down to wipe your own tape. You must NOT stand it in the corner- It must go in the gooseneck, otherwise you get 6" of dry tape at the start of each run


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## 2buckcanuck

KiwiInNorway said:


> Have done some serious soul searching and investigation.
> 
> It looks like the blame can be placed on the muppet weilding the bazooka (that might be me :whistling2.
> 
> Have had to cut out a number of "cracks" that really turned out to be dry bubbles behind the tape.
> 
> My wipers have no experience using paper tape, so this is really a tough learning curve for us all.
> 
> Yesterday's lesson for me was that when you put the bazooka down to wipe your own tape. You must NOT stand it in the corner- It must go in the gooseneck, otherwise you get 6" of dry tape at the start of each run


Sounds more like your brake is not working. If it is not working, the plunger will slowly slide back down the tube. Then why i say slowly, is b/c your mud is probably too stiff. If it was runny mud, you would notice your wheel running backwards right away. Then a third thing, your pump could be sucking in air. Should be around 9 pumps to fill (+/- a pump or 2),,,, if it's taking 15 pumps or so,,,,, not good.

So start by checking you brake, mud mix, pump, and then your sheep kiwi:thumbup:


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## KiwiInNorway

2buckcanuck said:


> Sounds more like your brake is not working. If it is not working, the plunger will slowly slide back down the tube. Then why i say slowly, is b/c your mud is probably too stiff. If it was runny mud, you would notice your wheel running backwards right away. Then a third thing, your pump could be sucking in air. Should be around 9 pumps to fill (+/- a pump or 2),,,, if it's taking 15 pumps or so,,,,, not good.
> 
> So start by checking you brake, mud mix, pump, and then your sheep kiwi:thumbup:


Thanks for that 2buck.

Mud should be OK - after a little trial and error I think I have that worked out.

9.5 strokes on the pump - so I don't think it is air.

It happens after every ceiling run, so it is either because I stood it in the corner after each tape or because of the brake.

The bazooka is a Colombia that is only 3 months old and only been used for a few days so far. Was hoping that it was user error rather than a technical problem.

If it is technical, then I guess I have to get my heavy thinking hat on. They look a bit fiddly close up, so I hope it's not too complicated.


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## Muddauber

2buckcanuck said:


> Sounds more like your brake is not working. If it is not working, the plunger will slowly slide back down the tube. Then why i say slowly, is b/c your mud is probably too stiff. If it was runny mud, you would notice your wheel running backwards right away. Then a third thing, your pump could be sucking in air. Should be around 9 pumps to fill (+/- a pump or 2),,,, if it's taking 15 pumps or so,,,,, not good.
> 
> So start by checking you brake, mud mix, pump, and then your sheep kiwi:thumbup:


Or could it be he's closeing the gate befor he stands it in the corner?


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## jcampbell

Do you turn the drive dog at the same time you advance the tape before you start. I had that problem 4 to 6" of dry tape. Watch jr' s video and watch what he does


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## fr8train

When putting the taper down, if left standing in the corner, you must leave the gate open (running position). If setting it in the gooseneck, you must close the gate ( fill position). Other than that, there are only a few things that will cause dry tapes. 

Check your brake. It may need a slight adjustment. It should make a buzzing sound while you are running it. If you have any experience following a taper, you'll know what I'm taking about.


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## KiwiInNorway

jcampbell said:


> Do you turn the drive dog at the same time you advance the tape before you start. I had that problem 4 to 6" of dry tape. Watch jr' s video and watch what he does


Yep, do that as a standard (gives my weak arms a rest!)


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## cazna

KiwiInNorway said:


> Thanks for that 2buck.
> 
> Mud should be OK - after a little trial and error I think I have that worked out.
> 
> 9.5 strokes on the pump - so I don't think it is air.
> 
> It happens after every ceiling run, so it is either because I stood it in the corner after each tape or because of the brake.
> 
> The bazooka is a Colombia that is only 3 months old and only been used for a few days so far. Was hoping that it was user error rather than a technical problem.
> 
> If it is technical, then I guess I have to get my heavy thinking hat on. They look a bit fiddly close up, so I hope it's not too complicated.


The gaps between the sheets could be to wide or rounded then there isnt enough mud on the tape to fill it, Hence a crack, If they are apart or gappy then they need a prefill before you tape (Thankyou 2buck) I prefill a lot now, It seems silly but man is everything easy after that, I tape flats with 90 setting and a homax banjo now after a prefill, Solid,safe and strong seam ready for boxing.


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