# Needing drywall installers and finishers



## jasjose2000 (Apr 11, 2016)

90 unit job, need help asap


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

doing what and where?


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## jasjose2000 (Apr 11, 2016)

Drywall install and finish, Huntsville, al


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

Endorse me and get my visa going and ill fly down


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

P.E.I.Taper said:


> Endorse me and get my visa going and ill fly down


You a white boy ! He don't want you!


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

The name is jose (h-o-z-a-y he will only pay u in taco p.e.i


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

No benefits and paid as independent contractor. You'll make more working at Burger King than these fools who drive down wages.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> No benefits and paid as independent contractor. You'll make more working at Burger King than these fools who drive down wages.


We can't all be you Willy!!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> We can't all be you Willy!!


There is a constant war between labor and management and we've been taking it in the booty since about 1980. We all make choices and you could be exactly like me if you wanted to put up with the BS. You work for yourself and when you want. That was your choice.

Independent contractor is how the trucking industry broke the teamsters and the construction industry. As a business owner you should be making $500 a day plus. Illegal alien and independent contractor have taken that from you. Then you support the same ideal that did it to you!

I'll stand for labor until I die. Wages can never be too high for a working mans toil and you of all people should see that?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm just flipping burgers Willy ...


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> I'm just flipping burgers Willy ...


Make mine medium!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm not sure if union regulations would let a half raw burger pass I don't want to get fined. I might lose that $500 for flipping that one burger!!


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Scott ,I have a question, was your home built with all union labor.
I'm curious. I know builders margins in my area and our unions can't come close to competing , hell they can't even show.
We may live in the same countries but we live in different worlds.
There is absolutely no union workers doing residential construction in my area.


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

I could be wrong but we have a similiar issue hear in Australia. ......the thing is if i was a dirty little mexican and i had a wife and my 3 kids to feed i would work for peanuts to i would love to know who made who.......did the mexicans start working cheap......or did the truck ass start saying if u want work take it or leave it


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Scott ,I have a question, was your home built with all union labor.
> I'm curious. I know builders margins in my area and our unions can't come close to competing , hell they can't even show.
> We may live in the same countries but we live in different worlds.
> There is absolutely no union workers doing residential construction in my area.


When I started in the late 70's production tract residential was almost 100% union. That has changed even in California. I know we were still doing shacks for one builder up until 2000. I just had to go get my I'm still alive form signed at the local here in Reno. They have about 1000 members so I'd say 600 to 800 that really stay busy. Tesla Gigafactory has union Carpenters, Electricians, Sheet Metal and iron heads. My home builder and most here are Non Union.
Casino's, Hospitals and big commercial is union. I know only of one big drywall union contractor. Honestly, I haven't really studied the market here much. I go to the local to get my formed signed so I don't have to pay a notary. In PA my guess would be you could work in the cities in a union. My guess is we're closer than you think.
I should add that large condo projects in the bay area are Union. The closer to SF you get the more union work there is. We should all respect the working man.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Unions aren't doing much in commercial in my local either. I'd have to drive to Philly which isn't a feasible for me, even for the wage increase. 
I found it ignorant your behalf to blame Moore for his choices, when in fact he probably made the best out of the choices presented to him.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Unions aren't doing much in commercial in my local either. I'd have to drive to Philly which isn't a feasible for me, even for the wage increase.
> I found it ignorant your behalf to blame Moore for his choices, when in fact he probably made the best out of the choices presented to him.


I never said he was ignorant. He made his choice to be free and I made mine to sit in crazy traffic and have a boss. Actually, we probably did more like what our fathers taught us. I support labor as should you. Thinking a working man is worth less than anyone else is a fools game.


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

embella plaster said:


> The name is jose (h-o-z-a-y he will only pay u in taco p.e.i


Jose is just the first half of joseph.... around here alot of the French families all have the same first name, and every one is called by their middle name! Maybe he could be my long lost brother:what:


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

Maybe he will pay me in guacamole? Spread it on a burrito and thats a meal!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> I never said he was ignorant. .


You did tell me To go flip burgers.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> You did tell me To go flip burgers.


Prove it? What would you pay a hangar for 31 12's?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> No benefits and paid as independent contractor. You'll make more working at Burger King than these fools who drive down wages.


Ok I guess it wasn't directed at me. Just at most of us!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> Ok I guess it wasn't directed at me. Just at most of us!


Actually it's worse in Texas. 10 cents a foot is $4.80 a 12. I remember when trucking started owner operator. Companies made drivers indentured slaves once they got them all to transition. 50 k a year and no benefits after truck payments, insurance and food. At $4.80 a board how much are they making in Texas? Then to have to pay your own SS, taxes and possibly insurance?

My SS at 62 will be more than $1700 a month. That is because I had some really good years right before I retired. How much will there SS be after they write down business expense, blah blah blah? These guys will be getting food stamps. How is that good for America?

FWIW, if he hangs 1500 sq ft that's $148.80 a day.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm sorry you misunderstood, I was referring to you as being ignorant, and no one else. 
Like I said,,, we live in different worlds. 
You bought a home built by nonunion labor. So did I.
I built most of it myself.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I'm sorry you misunderstood, I was referring to you as being ignorant, and no one else.
> Like I said,,, we live in different worlds.
> You bought a home built by nonunion labor. So did I.
> I built most of it myself.


Really PA, so that's where you are going to go? I really expected more but so be it! I didn't want to drive my Corvette down a dirt road, or be on septic and propane. So you attempt to insult my intelligence and my modest home?


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

No Willy, you readily insult nonunion workers and have no idea of what it takes to earn the most dollars in a trade with no one standing behind you.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

embella plaster said:


> I could be wrong but we have a similiar issue hear in Australia. ......the thing is if i was a dirty little mexican and i had a wife and my 3 kids to feed i would work for peanuts to i would love to know who made who.......did the mexicans start working cheap......or did the truck ass start saying if u want work take it or leave it


A dirty little Mexican? That's a bit rough there brother...have you ever even met a Mexican ? I've worked around many of them .south Americans too...they dress and smell better than I do!! I absolutely respect there work ethics and their honesty ...I had a spell where I had fired a hanging crew because they were trying to take advantage of me..it bit them a s s .. I used a south American crew for a while ...They were good people that would do anything for you...And I paid them the same as the other crew. Tho they were a little rough..ok....They were Rough! But if I needed 300 boards hung in a day so the general contractor could get his draw they were on it....No white boy hanging crew a round here can do that that I've come across. And the boss of the crew knew all his codes for commercial and residential . He even taught me a few things. The only reason I don't use them much anymore is taxes..I think the boss had I R S problems. I didn't want a red flag on me..and I know not all of them were legal ..I just prefer to use local home boys . 
The hangers I use now I kinda stole from another drywall contractor. They were mad about the treatment and pay..I told them I'll give you everything I can. And two other drywall contractor friends of mine told them the same and between the three of us we've kept them busy and paid well.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> No Willy, you readily insult nonunion workers and have no idea of what it takes to earn the most dollars in a trade with no one standing behind you.


Incorrect, and I respect all who work for a living. I've said so on this board. Your hurt for whatever reason and that's your bad and not mine.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> A dirty little Mexican? That's a bit rough there brother...have you ever even met a Mexican ? I've worked around many of them .south Americans too...they dress and smell better than I do!! I absolutely respect there work ethics and their honesty ...I had a spell where I had fired a hanging crew because they were trying to take advantage of me..it bit them a s s .. I used a south American crew for a while ...They were good people that would do anything for you...And I paid them the same as the other crew. Tho they were a little rough..ok....They were Rough! But if I needed 300 boards hung in a day so the general contractor could get his draw they were on it....No white boy hanging crew a round here can do that that I've come across. And the boss of the crew knew all his codes for commercial and residential . He even taught me a few things. The only reason I don't use them much anymore is taxes..I think the boss had I R S problems. I didn't want a red flag on me..and I know not all of them were legal ..I just prefer to use local home boys .
> The hangers I use now I kinda stole from another drywall contractor. They were mad about the treatment and pay..I told them I'll give you everything I can. And two other drywall contractor friends of mine told them the same and between the three of us we've kept them busy and paid well.


 I too have a deep respect for my Latino friends. Illegal immigration could be solved but our politicians allow it to drive down wages and working conditions. Mandatory E-verify now!


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> No Willy, you readily insult nonunion workers and have no idea of what it takes to earn the most dollars in a trade with no one standing behind you.


We are all doing the best we can with what we have available, is there anyone on here that left a union job to be a sub? Are there any subs that said screw it im joining the union tomorrow? Most of us dont have these options at pur finger tips. Ive worked for a uniom company for 5 years now, and on three separate occasions ive asked my boss to let me join and all three time they replied no. Ive also asked the union rep about it and he lied to me every single time. He would make me a promise if I did something, I would get it done. Then he would tell me to talk to my employer about wages. 

Ive got a good job, and im always pushing for a little more, because thats the best I can do!


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

moore said:


> A dirty little Mexican? That's a bit rough there brother...have you ever even met a Mexican ? I've worked around many of them .south Americans too...they dress and smell better than I do!! I absolutely respect there work ethics and their honesty ...I had a spell where I had fired a hanging crew because they were trying to take advantage of me..it bit them a s s .. I used a south American crew for a while ...They were good people that would do anything for you...And I paid them the same as the other crew. Tho they were a little rough..ok....They were Rough! But if I needed 300 boards hung in a day so the general contractor could get his draw they were on it....No white boy hanging crew a round here can do that that I've come across. And the boss of the crew knew all his codes for commercial and residential . He even taught me a few things. The only reason I don't use them much anymore is taxes..I think the boss had I R S problems. I didn't want a red flag on me..and I know not all of them were legal ..I just prefer to use local home boys .
> The hangers I use now I kinda stole from another drywall contractor. They were mad about the treatment and pay..I told them I'll give you everything I can. And two other drywall contractor friends of mine told them the same and between the three of us we've kept them busy and paid well.


"Dirty mexican" just a joke bud for some reason a lot of aussies call em dirty mexican just slang lol


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Here's your quote


MrWillys said:


> No benefits and paid as independent contractor. You'll make more working at Burger King than these fools who drive down wages.


 So as I see it,,,,you readily ridicule non union workers, yet purchase a home that anyone of us nonunion workers could have built. 
You could have purchased a lot In a development and had a union outfit build you a home,,,,but you were too cheap,,, you drove the wages down.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Here's your quote So as I see it,,,,you readily ridicule non union workers, yet purchase a home that anyone of us nonunion workers could have built.
> You could have purchased a lot In a development and had a union outfit build you a home,,,,but you were too cheap,,, you drove the wages down.


There are no union homes so you're just being silly. If you chose to violate labor laws and pay as independent contractor whether you are union or non union makes no difference. You only get away with it due to lack of enforcement and no contractors license requirement in your state. Read my example of Texas in this thread as an example of how it is ruining our industry. I make you feel guilty and you pretend it's an insult. It is sad that I'm right and that you attempt to justify it.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I have no guilt what so ever and why should I? I provide a high quality job at a fair price, earn a decent living wage in this region and I'm not breaking any state or federal laws, peroid. Too bad for you if don't agree with the laws.
Tell me about your home business doing tune jobs to jeeps,, is it union affiliated? 
Without your pension would it earning you a living wage???


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Scott you have the same attitude as any union man Ive ever met..


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

moore said:


> Scott you have the same attitude as any union man Ive ever met..


I've known some "down to earth" guys in the painters& allied trades union, who I really liked .
They said I should join the union, but the cut in pay and added travel seemed like a fool's choice to me. Although the carpenters union paid a bit more.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I did a prevailing wage drywall job about 10 years back, it was in Pottsville. Prevailing wage was somewhere between 18$-19$. I charged around $40.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

It is businessman who write these tax laws and vote on them. It shouldn't be any surprise a business owner will benefit more. 

Union work will always be around. In your cities, high-rises, hospitals, schools ect. But without a successful business owner there would be no unions.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I've known some "down to earth" guys in the painters& allied trades union, who I really liked .
> They said I should join the union, but the cut in pay and added travel seemed like a fool's choice to me. Although the carpenters union paid a bit more.



If you have A employee mentality, the union is for you. There's nothing wrong with that.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> If you have A employee mentality, the union is for you. There's nothing wrong with that.


I have no problem with unions or what they "fundamentally" represent. 
In my experience and opinion you are absolutely right, Mr. Brightstar.


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

I dont know about your unions what they stand for is fine but our union still lets illegals on jobs and people are paid as independent contractors yet make out we are all looked after


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

MrWillys said:


> There are no union homes so you're just being silly. If you chose to violate labor laws and pay as independent contractor whether you are union or non union makes no difference. You only get away with it due to lack of enforcement and no contractors license requirement in your state. Read my example of Texas in this thread as an example of how it is ruining our industry. I make you feel guilty and you pretend it's an insult. It is sad that I'm right and that you attempt to justify it.


You're telling me someone's hire s union company to build a home and they jusg say no? That seems silly to me. It happens here, not often but it does happen.


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

embella plaster said:


> I dont know about your unions what they stand for is fine but our union still lets illegals on jobs and people are paid as independent contractors yet make out we are all looked after


No such thing as a union site around here. Sometimes only union will touch certain jobs because of their size. and subs who dont pay their taxes some times geg certain contracts awarded to them. Every body is hungry


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> There are no union homes so you're just being silly. If you chose to violate labor laws and pay as independent contractor whether you are union or non union makes no difference. You only get away with it due to lack of enforcement and no contractors license requirement in your state. Read my example of Texas in this thread as an example of how it is ruining our industry. I make you feel guilty and you pretend it's an insult. It is sad that I'm right and that you attempt to justify it.


No state license required in Penn to build ? I didn't know that!

It's like that in Ohio too.


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

P.E.I.Taper said:


> No such thing as a union site around here. Sometimes only union will touch certain jobs because of their size. and subs who dont pay their taxes some times geg certain contracts awarded to them. Every body is hungry


Exactly the same the cfmeu union is based on criminal activity you might always see them on news filled with thugs......i respect what they claim.....i respect workers getting paid right....it just doesnt happen i see all these little chinaman filling our large union projects getting paid as independant contractors while there boss has charged the whole job as he is paying union rates it makes me sick


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

moore said:


> No state license required in Penn to build ? I didn't know that!
> 
> It's like that in Ohio too.


Actually Moore, we do need a license in PA. I'm required to get a PA Home Improvement Contractor license. This all-important license number must accompany any and all forms of advertising (including truck lettering). 
The process is a joke however, all you need to do is send $50 to the state every year & they'll happily send you a license. Just one more meaningless gesture from our leaders in Harrisburg (for my foreign friends, that's the capitol of PA !

It offers no protection to the consumer, just a bit more revenue to the state!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Wimpy65 said:


> Actually Moore, we do need a license in PA. I'm required to get a PA Home Improvement Contractor license. This all-important license number must accompany any and all forms of advertising (including truck lettering).
> The process is a joke however, all you need to do is send $50 to the state every year & they'll happily send you a license. Just one more meaningless gesture from our leaders in Harrisburg (for my foreign friends, that's the capitol of PA !
> 
> It offers no protection to the consumer, just a bit more revenue to the state!


http://www.contractors-license.org/pa/pa.htm

I'm I confused? Here in both California and Nevada you must pass a test and pay for your license. Therefore, if you 1099 someone without a license you have violated the law.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

embella plaster said:


> Exactly the same the cfmeu union is based on criminal activity you might always see them on news filled with thugs......i respect what they claim.....i respect workers getting paid right....it just doesnt happen i see all these little chinaman filling our large union projects getting paid as independant contractors while there boss has charged the whole job as he is paying union rates it makes me sick


 This is the perception the anti union management wants you to believe to break down working conditions. It has worked well here in the US since about 1980. In 1970 in the US 40% of private industry workers were union. Today that number is less than 9%. What has shifted in that same time is the wealth at the top has grown while working class folks wages have stagnated. does your rhetoric still taste the same?


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> There is a constant war between labor and management and we've been taking it in the booty since about 1980. We all make choices and you could be exactly like me if you wanted to put up with the BS. You work for yourself and when you want. That was your choice.
> 
> Independent contractor is how the trucking industry broke the teamsters and the construction industry. As a business owner you should be making $500 a day plus. Illegal alien and independent contractor have taken that from you. Then you support the same ideal that did it to you!
> 
> I'll stand for labor until I die. Wages can never be too high for a working mans toil and you of all people should see that?


Where I am at wages remained pretty strong until there was an inordinate number of illegal immigrants flocking in. When you triple the work force without adding more demand for labor no union in the world will fix that. And add to that the fact that there are two sets of rules for who does and doesn't keep books, pay taxes, have insurance etc., and the native worker is at a great disadvantage.


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> This is the perception the anti union management wants you to believe to break down working conditions. It has worked well here in the US since about 1980. In 1970 in the US 40% of private industry workers were union. Today that number is less than 9%. What has shifted in that same time is the wealth at the top has grown while working class folks wages have stagnated. does your rhetoric still taste the same?


Our domestic side has not changed its like we have to find a new thing each year to make even lower (like throw in freebees)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Wimpy65 said:


> Actually Moore, we do need a license in PA. I'm required to get a PA Home Improvement Contractor license. This all-important license number must accompany any and all forms of advertising (including truck lettering).
> The process is a joke however, all you need to do is send $50 to the state every year & they'll happily send you a license. Just one more meaningless gesture from our leaders in Harrisburg (for my foreign friends, that's the capitol of PA !
> 
> It offers no protection to the consumer, just a bit more revenue to the state!


I have a class C state license .but if I do work in the cities and even some towns technically I'm required to get a license for each city or town..but I've never done it. Unless the general contractor ask about it which one never has I feel my state license is all I need. ..like you said it's all for nothing ..just revenue . To tell you truth ..I've never once been asked if I'm licensed !!! The first question g c s and h o s ask is ...do you have liability and workers compensation? Btw my state license cost about $250 every two years ..if I were to pay every town or city I work in $20 a pop I'd hate to know what that would cost me in a year's time!! I work a lot of areas through out central Va .


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> Where I am at wages remained pretty strong until there was an inordinate number of illegal immigrants flocking in. When you triple the work force without adding more demand for labor no union in the world will fix that. And add to that the fact that there are two sets of rules for who does and doesn't keep books, pay taxes, have insurance etc., and the native worker is at a great disadvantage.


 Which is why we need mandatory E-Verify. If you got fined for 1099ing a false SS number you check. I worked for a guy that made me use it and I was glad to. Good luck getting our politicians to vote for it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Km


MrWillys said:


> Which is why we need mandatory E-Verify. If you got fined for 1099ing a false SS number you check. I worked for a guy that made me use it and I was glad to. Good luck getting our politicians to vote for it.


But the democrats need those voters. :whistling2:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> Km
> 
> But the democrats need those voters. :whistling2:


 And Republicans won't pass it because they're beholden to the corporations and we get screwed.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

So did you have to pass a course and get a licence to modify electronic tuning in the state in which you live? After all,,, it's possible for that vehicle to be on public roadways and put others at risk.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> This is the perception the anti union management wants you to believe to break down working conditions. It has worked well here in the US since about 1980. In 1970 in the US 40% of private industry workers were union. Today that number is less than 9%. What has shifted in that same time is the wealth at the top has grown while working class folks wages have stagnated. does your rhetoric still taste the same?


"the wealth at the top has grown while working class folks wages have stagnated" Not so simple as comparing union affiliation percentages over time. A lot of this is due to manufacturing moving to oppressive regimes that jail complainers among the workers, have very lax environmental regulations, and thus can get manufacturing done very cheaply. The firm can sell cheaply made products for a price as if they were made by more expensive labor and pocket the difference. Back at home we also have a glut of labor due to illegal immigration, while domestic demand for labor does not keep up with supply. Keeping wages low. When manufacturing or any other sector leaves, it takes a lot of secondary industries with it. Construction, accounting, education, and a lot of other services needed for the primary industry.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> "the wealth at the top has grown while working class folks wages have stagnated" Not so simple as comparing union affiliation percentages over time. A lot of this is due to manufacturing moving to oppressive regimes that jail complainers among the workers, have very lax environmental regulations, and thus can get manufacturing done very cheaply. The firm can sell cheaply made products for a price as if they were made by more expensive labor and pocket the difference. Back at home we also have a glut of labor due to illegal immigration, while domestic demand for labor does not keep up with supply. Keeping wages low. When manufacturing or any other sector leaves, it takes a lot of secondary industries with it. Construction, accounting, education, and a lot of other services needed for the primary industry.


Pass E-Verify and yes I'm aware of the numerous factors that have contributed to the working class demise. Stand up for labor and not accepting the excuse is a good start. Construction cannot be outsourced or at least the labor. Pass E-Verify and wages will rise and yes there's an excuse why its not perfect but it's a darn good start.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> Pass E-Verify and yes I'm aware of the numerous factors that have contributed to the working class demise. Stand up for labor and not accepting the excuse is a good start. Construction cannot be outsourced or at least the labor. Pass E-Verify and wages will rise and yes there's an excuse why its not perfect but it's a darn good start.


Good point as always. "Construction cannot be outsourced or at least the labor." The demand for construction can be sent away to follow outsourced industry. And imported labor is in essence out sourced labor. Still I don't wish to over simplify complicated issues.


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