# removing texture, wet vs dry?



## miket

Im in the middle of a ceiling job. The HO wanted the texture removed and ceiling painted. As far as texture goes this ceiling was one of the uglier ones.


The ceiling was unpainted. I mentioned that ive heard ceilings can be scraped wet, but my boss(dad) never tried it before and decided to use our PorterCable drywall sander with 80 grit pads which we also had never tried on a textured cieiling. It went much faster than by hand and left it pretty smooth.

The dust was beyond ridiculous. I had plasticed the walls for spraying and expected a decent amount of dust but not that much. It was crazy. I've sanded skim coated ceilings before and know some dust flies when the machine hits at an angle and expected it to be several times worse with the not so smooth texture but not like that. The vac only collected a tiny fraction of the dust not even a majority of it by a long shot. On the way to the job I picked up norton 80grit hook and loop pads and a norton foam backing pad from home depot. When installing the backing pad i noticed it was almost twice as thick as the foam part on the original combo PC foam/sandpaper pads . With the thick norton the sandpaper sits a hair above the brushes instead of well below them.Ugh. I think thats why the collection was so so bad. Have any of you bought those pads and have a problem, especially on ceilings?


When wet scraping do you get a lot of digs into the joints? How fast is wet scraping? We own a PC sander and i can say that its defintly faster than hand scraping and leaves a decent finish.

There are other ceilings to do in this house so if wet scraping is better, i'll try it there.


----------



## miket

Off topic:The tape around the perimeter of the celing needed another coat but the joints were finished. lots and lots of minor imperfections in the ceilling as expected.

There was a big dip in the ceiling. Previously there had been water damage in the center of the dip which was fixed with a horrible horrible texture patch.(i'd never get away with that on an insurance job, maybe a slumlord job). The HO was convinced the water warped the drywall and wanted me to cut out the large dipped down section and replace it. Warping didnt make sense the drywall was very solid. I cut out 4.5'x3' to find someone nailed a 5' long sheet of osb to a joist to brace it. probably the plumber who put a drain pipe through it. The osb was taller, extending below the joist about 3/4' avg, more towards the end. The original drywall guys just went over it. I cut it flush with the joist and hung a new piece of 5/8's to match. The edges didnt line up with the existing drywall though so i ground them down some, taped them and then covered the whole area with a couple thick coats of easy sand to smooth it all out.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

Why don't you just skim coat over the unwanted texture....?

Am I missing something here, because I feel this would be the easiest solution.

If it's how I imagine, i figure a good 1-2 skim coats should do the trick to level the ceiling back out.....then sand with a sanding pole. Use some lights after sanding, check the ceiling for any possible dips or valleys you might need to spot touch-up, then retexture the ceiling how the HO wants.


----------



## miket

By the homeowner wants the texture removed and the ceiling painted, i meant he wants a flat ceiling, maybe i should have made that more clear. 

The addition on his house has nice flat ceilings, flat as is in smooth, they do have a flat gloss too but are not flat as in level, the addition included a complicated cathedral type ceiling and 4 dormers as well as several normal rooms. Im doing the large old connected mudroom-hallway-kitchen-otherhallway-diningroom ceiling now and will be doing several other smaller rooms soon.


The popcorn texture is really thick,course uneven and just a bit crumbly. If i could skim coat over it to fill it in, it it would take longer and be more work than removing. At least skimming by hand, maybe you guys have a super skimming machine i dont know about. I might have skim coated the ceiling after removing the texture if there had been more imperfections but spot patching was enough.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

Ohhhhhhh...this is popcorn? okay, i see i see......of course, you were asking wet or dry. Ok, now it makes sense.

In that case, we always perform wet for acoustic texture. And like you said, if its unpainted, it should be even easier because the water doesn't have to break through the chemical layer to absorb. Soak down sections with a pump sprayer, let it soak for about 5-10 mins, then scrape it off with a 10 or 12".

Most of the time, it SHOULD come off nice and easy.

Taking a porter cable sander to this would be the last thing I would do. And God forbid there's asbestos in it.

Anyways, once you take it off, typically you'll need at least one more coat on all the nails and butts, etc. Popcorn texture back in the day was a quick solution to texture as well as being used to hide bad finishing, so just remember that.

If the HO wants this painted afterwards, I would make sure the finishing is around a level 5. I would finish it off with a coat of Hamilton Prep Coat, to avoid joint flashing and other imperfections, especially for a ceiling.

Basically roll or spray this on -- I do both if I can. Spraying it on, followed by someone back rolling it. You can even perform a spot touch-up with lights the next day after it is completely dry to spot other minor imperfections. Past this, it's ready to paint.


----------



## alltex

I put this on here once before and got mixed opinions.We have done this many times with good results. First put 2 inch tape around the top of wall then coverfloor with plastic up to walls.tape the seams in plastic real good and tite then hang lite wieght plastic on the walls so it overlaps on the floor.don,t tape walls to floor.Now pop a staple every 4 or 5 ft. in the wall tape so it won,t fall when wet. now get you garden hose hand wet it down let it soak a while and hit it agin ( don,t worry the accutic will sop up the water) .Now the stuff will scrape off easy with a wide knife or even a floor scraper.(if not painted).we have scraped and touched up one day and retexured the next many times.No dust exept if you sand your touch up.Think what you wan,t ,but it works!!


----------



## eastex1963

Yeah, and if I saw you on my job with a garden hose in your hand that would be the last job you ever did for me...................GARDEN SPRAYER!!!


----------



## eastex1963

I am assuming that you're talking about a water hose.....


----------



## miket

Custom Drywall Svc. This house was built well after asbestos was outlawed.

Alltext I put plastic on the walls first,not just to contain the dust but so after removing the texture and fixing the ceililng i could then spray paint the ceiling. I put paper on the floor but would have put heavy plastic on top of that and removed that floor plastic after wet scraping if i went that route.

Again I am not retexturing the ceiling.

I would have tried the pc sander in one small area and wet in another small area first then did the ceiling but my boss just wanted to get started w the sander.

Custom Drywall Svc For comparison have you tried the pc sander with the 'proper pads' on a popcorn ceiling or know someone who did? How much dust is created? Like the amount created sanding a level 4 ceiling with a standard pole sander or is it still way worse? hand sanding the edges, spray painting, everything im doing is creating some dust, i just dont want to create an extremely excessive amount.

How fast is the wet scraping is it slower, like dry hand scraping but with the added water spraying time?

Does wet scraping dig into the butts? I know wet scraping wallpaper digs into the butts if the walls underneath weren't properly primed.

How many mils thick do you spray your prepcoat?

Surprisingly the all the butts and most of the screw holes were finished only the edges of the ceiling were level 3.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

miket said:


> Custom Drywall Svc. This house was built well after asbestos was outlawed.
> 
> Alltext I put plastic on the walls first,not just to contain the dust but so after removing the texture and fixing the ceililng i could then spray paint the ceiling. I put paper on the floor but would have put heavy plastic on top of that and removed that floor plastic after wet scraping if i went that route.
> 
> Again I am not retexturing the ceiling.
> 
> I would have tried the pc sander in one small area and wet in another small area first then did the ceiling but my boss just wanted to get started w the sander.
> 
> Custom Drywall Svc For comparison have you tried the pc sander with the 'proper pads' on a popcorn ceiling or know someone who did? How much dust is created? Like the amount created sanding a level 4 ceiling with a standard pole sander or is it still way worse? hand sanding the edges, spray painting, everything im doing is creating some dust, i just dont want to create an extremely excessive amount.
> 
> How fast is the wet scraping is it slower, like dry hand scraping but with the added water spraying time?
> 
> Does wet scraping dig into the butts? I know wet scraping wallpaper digs into the butts if the walls underneath weren't properly primed.
> 
> How many mils thick do you spray your prepcoat?
> 
> Surprisingly the all the butts and most of the screw holes were finished only the edges of the ceiling were level 3.


No I havent tried the pc sander.

Honestly, I'd just never go that route with acoustic....wetting it down is so much easier i feel. Even if i had the proper pads for this, I would never take a pc sander to it.

As far as cleanup, do this, similar to what you described....

get a base layer of plastic, and make sure this is tied down real good............next, put a top layer of plastic on this, but loose, not tied down.

This way, when you scrape off the acoustic, it all falls on that top layer. This will allow you to simply remove the top layer when cleaning up, trapping all that acoustic with it. Now, to continue working in that room, you still have that secured base layer of plastic on the bottom.

As far as time for wet scraping....it just depends -- is it painted? ceiling heights? flat clng? etc...

For your scenario, if the HO wants it completely flat, like a smooth wall -- you surely have to make sure the texture is completely coming off. Whereas if you were to spray this or hand texture it, obviously if you left behind little remnants of acoustic texture, it wouldnt be the end of the world. This HO basically wants a smooth wall ceiling, which means more attention.

If anything Miket, SAND after you wet scrape to get off the little bits left behind...WITH a sanding pole.

As far as the knife digging into the butts when you scrape, not really. Besides, it doesnt matter because i guarantee you that once you scrape off the texture and see the existing finishing, that its no more than a level 2 finish. You HAVE to touchup the ceiling anyways, so the knife digging into the butts should be the least of your worries.

My company has done 100's of popcorn removals / retextures, and i have yet to find ONE ceiling we didnt have to touchup, whether it be minor - extensive.

Again, like i said before -- consider rolling / spraying on a drywall primer like Hamilton Prep Coat before the HO paints...trust me. It basically brings everything on the ceiling to ONE substrate, making it look nice and even.

Good luck!

(Oh btw -- If I saw someone take a garden hose to my ceiling as well, i would surely kick them off the jobsite hahhahahhah)


----------



## drywalljoe

ihave used my porter cable sander to sand down alot of texture ceilings. with the vac attachment there is very little mess popcorn comes off real easy!:thumbup:


----------



## alltex

well it works good and haven,t been sued or booted yet


----------



## eastex1963

yet being the key word here.....hope the best for ya...I just personally would never do it.


----------



## alltex

It does sound scary ,but if you think about it , i use and am sure alot of us use a regular spray rig and it pacs as much potental for a nitemare as a tite garden hose with a good nossel on it.Actualy i never tryed a pis can sprayer but i bet it works good, just not as fast.I bet some of you are concidering the hose right now too.you just have to mask the floor and walls tite.try it you,l like it espesialy on a whole house.


----------



## Wallers

The key is Kilz. Scrape the texture down (wet), then use your pc to remove that stubborn texture on the joints and such, and then kilz it. I have vever had good luck just trying to put mud over all that dust and old rock. The kilz locks the dust up, then you can go through with a light and touch up all those dings and dents and get the screws filled. Then you are ready to glaze, or texture or whatever you need to do with it! You could also try gardz or usg first coat I've heard they both work also, I've just always used kilz. And also with that if you do a hand texture on it, the old yellowed sheetrock won't bleed through, so you are killing 2 birds with one stone!


----------



## Wallers

Has anyone tried one of those popcorn scrapers that you hang a baggie from to catch the texture as it falls? Looks like a pain to me, just wondering.


----------



## fr8train

Never had to do it, but I remember someone saying that when they are doing texture removal, they take in a big plastic trash can w/lid. Place a bag in the can, and use the lid in one hand to catch the debris while scraping with the other, when the lid is full, dump it in the trash can.


----------



## Frankawitz

You guys need to invest in a dust collector, it will keep your job sites clean. I built my own, I put one together but I can tell you this these machines will save you from cleaning a whole house. I use to use just plastic, now I know the dust isn't leaving the room.
As for wet or dry scrap use a wallpaper stripper just take your time and keep the razor blade sharp, it cuts down on your labor. If the HO wants the ceiling flat basecoat it with Durabond 90 Brown bags then hit it with topping finish smoooth light pole sand, ready for primer spot it out and paint :thumbsup:


----------



## Wallers

They still MAKE brown bag db????!!!


j/k The only time I have it is when someone accidentally picks it up for me. By basecoat I hope you mean tight glaze! cuz sanding isnt really an option with that stuff, therefore the ceiling will be far from flat.


----------



## Wallers

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> Ohhhhhhh...this is popcorn? okay, i see i see......of course, you were asking wet or dry. Ok, now it makes sense.
> 
> In that case, we always perform wet for acoustic texture. And like you said, if its unpainted, it should be even easier because the water doesn't have to break through the chemical layer to absorb. Soak down sections with a pump sprayer, let it soak for about 5-10 mins, then scrape it off with a 10 or 12".
> 
> Most of the time, it SHOULD come off nice and easy.
> 
> Taking a porter cable sander to this would be the last thing I would do. And God forbid there's asbestos in it.
> 
> Anyways, once you take it off, typically you'll need at least one more coat on all the nails and butts, etc. Popcorn texture back in the day was a quick solution to texture as well as being used to hide bad finishing, so just remember that.
> 
> If the HO wants this painted afterwards, I would make sure the finishing is around a level 5. I would finish it off with a coat of Hamilton Prep Coat, to avoid joint flashing and other imperfections, especially for a ceiling.
> 
> Basically roll or spray this on -- I do both if I can. Spraying it on, followed by someone back rolling it. You can even perform a spot touch-up with lights the next day after it is completely dry to spot other minor imperfections. Past this, it's ready to paint.


We are on doing this in an entire apartment building right now. And it's painted. Found the ticket!!! Use the pc first (I do agree with you about NOT doing this normally, it is like beating a dead horse, it does NOTHING) BUT, with painted-- Use it! Break the ceiling down a bit, and THEN spray with water! The pc gets all of the larger chunks off, thus making a porous surface for the water to permeate! Then it's GRAVY! But, I will still kilz all of them with an airless before touching up and retexturing. The mud just really doesn't like to stick to the surface after a texture removal!


----------



## miket

Wallers said:


> We are on doing this in an entire apartment building right now. And it's painted. Found the ticket!!! Use the pc first (I do agree with you about NOT doing this normally, it is like beating a dead horse, it does NOTHING) BUT, with painted-- Use it! Break the ceiling down a bit, and THEN spray with water! The pc gets all of the larger chunks off, thus making a porous surface for the water to permeate! Then it's GRAVY! But, I will still kilz all of them with an airless before touching up and retexturing. The mud just really doesn't like to stick to the surface after a texture removal!


smart!

edit: the dust did make it more difficult to skim coat, i believe the wet scraped was worse than the pc sanded ceiling when it came to dust, still on the ceiling lol.

Why would you use kilz instead of a cheaper drywall primer when your going to skim coat anyways? A stain blocker isnt needed.

Would you guys recommend a PVA type primer to lock the dust?


----------



## miket

I blame my father for doing the large ceiling with the PC sander. I recomended we try a little of both first to see how it worked but he picked the sander and went with that.

We did the small bathroom dry because we were afraid of messing up the old paper wallpaper with all the water. He closed the door and scraped and sanded for a half hour. I waited 10 min for the dust to settle then i cleaned for another half hour.


In the third medium sized room he scraped the ceiling wet, he said it created alot less mess and was so much easier!
I did notice that wet scraping pulls more compound out of screw holes and such.

Edges are brutal. As you go toward the edge the last couple inches slope down a bit and then teh last 1/2"-1/4" goes way up so theres a slight ridge and then a gap. The tape paper is showing of course. Its not really consistent in the other direction either as the celing line waves up and down along the wall. The corners are just um weird. And then i have to bring down and straighten the ceiling line while preserving the wallpaper lol. Theres lots of bows and dips in that celing too.

edit: still glad i have the pc sander for sanding the skimcoat.


----------



## miket

I am definitely a fan of 20-90 minute hot mud for anything deep. I hate shrinkage and also heat guns lol. 

Whats the difference between topping mud and usg all purpose? Do you guys add soap to your mud? I saw lafarge rapid coat at lowes, how does that stuff compare?


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

Wallers said:


> Has anyone tried one of those popcorn scrapers that you hang a baggie from to catch the texture as it falls? Looks like a pain to me, just wondering.


Yes, but it gets to heavy and a lot falls on the floor anyway, I break the bag thing off. As for the PC it's a waste of time. Take a manly floor scraper and knock the "tips" off and then the water can penatrate it. Garden sprayers suck, a hose works better but it does look really unprofessional. A customer doesn't want to see that. Use an airless paint sprayer with hot water at about half pressure.


----------



## miket

We did way too many touch ups, way too many times on the big ceiling so we skim coated the other ceilings.
Thats neat that you can spray a high build primer and backroll to get level 5. I assume you need to start with quality level 4 first lol.


How do you guys apply skim coat mud? Trowel like the plaster guys, roll it,some box thing, or spray it?

How do you smooth it, wide trowel, knife or squeege?

Does you technique change between;
regular Old walls that have lots of minor imperfections and some roughness but are in good shape.
Really damaged and rough gouged wallboard from bad wallpaper removal.(had to deal with that upstairs)
Ceilings that are flat but rough from remnants of scraped heavily painted popcorn texture.
Ceilings that are now scraped smooth but were poorly rocked and bow hollow and wave alot making things more diffiult.


----------



## miket

A+ Texture LLC said:


> Yes, but it gets to heavy and a lot falls on the floor anyway, I break the bag thing off. As for the PC it's a waste of time. Take a manly floor scraper and knock the "tips" off and then the water can penatrate it. Garden sprayers suck, a hose works better but it does look really unprofessional. A customer doesn't want to see that. Use an airless paint sprayer with hot water at about half pressure.



I think that would work unless the texture has a whole lot of coats of paint which ive run into on occasion. Garden sprayer makes sense for wallpaper removal in a small bathroom, or for spraying bleach to kill mildew, but for a large ceilign thats going to be sprayed with an airless anywyays that makes alot of sense. Enough sense you can probably hear me slap my forhead from over there lol. What size tip do you use for water? Biggest tip i have in my box right now is 519.

edit; Id never use a garden hose in house lol, but ive heard on the internets that the kind with the plastic male threaded ends dont cut or mess up the rubber washers and cause leaks as fast as the cheap sheet metal male threaded end kind.


----------



## A+ Texture LLC

It will still work if it's been painted a few times. Taking the floor scraper knocks the tips of so the water can penatrate it. I use to use a 415 but help chucked it by accident. Right now I've been using a 515.


----------



## betterdrywall

I just use my airless to wet the ceilings down, If there is wave's or dips, smaller knifes help prevent damage to the paper face of the board. I take my time and scrape as clean as possible. Then sand with PC.


----------



## Axecutioner-B

alltex said:


> I put this on here once before and got mixed opinions.We have done this many times with good results. First put 2 inch tape around the top of wall then coverfloor with plastic up to walls.tape the seams in plastic real good and tite then hang lite wieght plastic on the walls so it overlaps on the floor.don,t tape walls to floor.Now pop a staple every 4 or 5 ft. in the wall tape so it won,t fall when wet. now get you garden hose hand wet it down let it soak a while and hit it agin ( don,t worry the accutic will sop up the water) .Now the stuff will scrape off easy with a wide knife or even a floor scraper.(if not painted).we have scraped and touched up one day and retexured the next many times.No dust exept if you sand your touch up.Think what you wan,t ,but it works!!


This is what we did to get rid of the popcorn in my house & it worked great !! We tried using a little pump sprayer & it just didnt get it done so we grabbed a garden hose & misted the whole ceiling... & voila! Worked real good IMO 
________
Club Royal Condominium Pattaya


----------



## Workaholic

Interesting thread. I know it is old but I have been thinking of other options lately rather than the wet method.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Workaholic said:


> Interesting thread. I know it is old but I have been thinking of other options lately rather than the wet method.


 Its like sex, work,,,, can't beat the wet method

The long and the short of it is this,,,,,,, If its been painted,,,your screwed,,ain't really any decent way to scrape it off, at that point,,,just hang over it. If it hasn't been painted,,, just mist it with a garden sprayer and scrape it off with 6 or 8 inch knife.:yes:


----------



## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Its like sex, work,,,, can't beat the wet method
> 
> The long and the short of it is this,,,,,,, If its been painted,,,your screwed,,ain't really any decent way to scrape it off, at that point,,,just hang over it. If it hasn't been painted,,, just mist it with a garden sprayer and scrape it off with 6 or 8 inch knife.:yes:


You can't eat through the paint with the p/c sander??
I've been told ya can..[ wouldn't know myself,,no p/c.]


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> You can't eat through the paint with the p/c sander??
> I've been told ya can..[ wouldn't know myself,,no p/c.]


 Not really,,, you can get pc discs down to 80 grit,,,but after you sand it with that,,,ya still got to skim the dern thing. Been my experience anyhoo


----------



## Workaholic

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Its like sex, work,,,, can't beat the wet method
> 
> The long and the short of it is this,,,,,,, If its been painted,,,your screwed,,ain't really any decent way to scrape it off, at that point,,,just hang over it. If it hasn't been painted,,, just mist it with a garden sprayer and scrape it off with 6 or 8 inch knife.:yes:





moore said:


> You can't eat through the paint with the p/c sander??
> I've been told ya can..[ wouldn't know myself,,no p/c.]


I think you guys should give up the PC sanders and try Festool options with the Extractors. The below pic is of me trying out the Festool Planex in Indiana. 

This drywall sander is not available in NA untill 2012 but there are other options.

I have no doubt the Planex can eat through paint and will leave a very limited amount of dust.


----------



## moore

''I have no doubt the Planex can eat through paint and will leave a very limited amount of dust.''



Still got to level It out..:whistling2:and that takes lots of mud,,,and time..no matter how flat the sanding job may LOOK..I don't know ..just TOMA!!


----------



## Workaholic

moore said:


> ''I have no doubt the Planex can eat through paint and will leave a very limited amount of dust.''
> 
> 
> 
> Still got to level It out..:whistling2:and that takes lots of mud,,,and time..no matter how flat the sanding job may LOOK..I don't know ..just TOMA!!


I am thinking of trying a mostly dustless sanding sysytem and then coating the joints and screws with mud or possibly floating the the entire ceiling and then sanding with Festool again to provide a mostly dust free service. 
Less mess more money.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Workaholic said:


> I am thinking of trying a mostly dustless sanding sysytem and then coating the joints and screws with mud or possibly floating the the entire ceiling and then sanding with Festool again to provide a mostly dust free service.
> Less mess more money.


Gee worky, you doing more and more taping, planing on coming over to the Dark side too









For all the yak about power sanders on here, and my own personal research I did on them, the festool seemed to impress me the most. But !!!! think they had a crazy price tag on it, like over 2,000. Also, heard they won't sell sander separate from the vacuum, it's a package deal.

Maybe you may know about the details on them:yes:

Or maybe your a Festool salesman now:whistling2:


----------



## moore

Workaholic said:


> I think you guys should give up the PC sanders and try Festool options with the Extractors. The below pic is of me trying out the Festool Planex in Indiana.
> 
> This drywall sander is not available in NA untill 2012 but there are other options.
> 
> I have no doubt the Planex can eat through paint and will leave a very limited amount of dust.


Just so ya know.. That guy to the far left is looking at your butt....gotta watch them suits dude !!! There a weird bunch!


----------



## Workaholic

2buckcanuck said:


> Gee worky, you doing more and more taping, planing on coming over to the Dark side too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all the yak about power sanders on here, and my own personal research I did on them, the festool seemed to impress me the most. But !!!! think they had a crazy price tag on it, like over 2,000. Also, heard they won't sell sander separate from the vacuum, it's a package deal.
> 
> Maybe you may know about the details on them:yes:
> 
> Or maybe your a Festool salesman now:whistling2:


I am taking more taping jobs these days. I also turn down popcorn removal jobs through out the year when I am busy enough to not want to deal with the mess. 

Yes the Vac and machine are a package deal, it is a very nic set up. If you do much commercial or a lot of occupied houses through out the year it seems like a small price by the end of the year. 

I took the opportunity to visit their Indiana facility for a work shop and was skeptical of the price and availability of their products prior to my arrival, after a day there I got a good feel for their products and met some nice people which got me thinking of how I can incorporate their products into my business so that I can be more efficient and sell a cleaner service. 

They would never let me work for them, all I would want to do is play with tools all day. 


moore said:


> Just so ya know.. That guy to the far left is looking at your butt....gotta watch them suits dude !!! There a weird bunch!


As long as I made a good impression lol.


----------



## SlimPickins

Workaholic said:


> I am taking more taping jobs these days. I also turn down popcorn removal jobs through out the year when I am busy enough to not want to deal with the mess.
> 
> Yes the Vac and machine are a package deal, it is a very nic set up. If you do much commercial or a lot of occupied houses through out the year it seems like a small price by the end of the year.
> 
> I took the opportunity to visit their Indiana facility for a work shop and was skeptical of the price and availability of their products prior to my arrival, after a day there I got a good feel for their products and met some nice people which got me thinking of how I can incorporate their products into my business so that I can be more efficient and sell a cleaner service.
> 
> They would never let me work for them, all I would want to do is play with tools all day.
> 
> 
> As long as I made a good impression lol.


Those guys seriously take tools to the next level. They understand how much time is spent cleaning up and working in occupied environments, and have developed their system to remove a sizable portion of the mess. I cut some flooring in a woman's home with my Festool rail saw connected to my Fein vacuum, and the only mess I made was a few small shavings spitting out in front of the saw....no dust anywhere. All the masking I did in preparation for the "event" was wasted time and energy....a light sweep was all that was needed. It's not only that their tools hook up to vacuums, they're developed to really capture dust and funnel it into the vacuum port. I love Festool. Yeah, I totally just said that...(hear that Festool? I LOVE your tools.....I sure wish I could afford a Domino so I could tell everyone how amazing it is:yes


----------



## Workaholic

SlimPickins said:


> Those guys seriously take tools to the next level. They understand how much time is spent cleaning up and working in occupied environments, and have developed their system to remove a sizable portion of the mess. I cut some flooring in a woman's home with my Festool rail saw connected to my Fein vacuum, and the only mess I made was a few small shavings spitting out in front of the saw....no dust anywhere. All the masking I did in preparation for the "event" was wasted time and energy....a light sweep was all that was needed. It's not only that their tools hook up to vacuums, they're developed to really capture dust and funnel it into the vacuum port. I love Festool. Yeah, I totally just said that...(hear that Festool? I LOVE your tools.....I sure wish I could afford a Domino so I could tell everyone how amazing it is:yes


I agree Slim, when I visited their company last month it was just amazing how organized, detail orientated and how much they put into their tools. With most everything being a dustless system it just makes good business sense in my line of work to try and leave as little mess as possible, there by saving time and materials in the prep and clean up stage. 

I will update this forum with my use of their tools as I progress farther into Festool. 

Out of curiosity why did you go with a Fein vac rather than a Festool extractor?


----------



## SlimPickins

Workaholic said:


> I agree Slim, when I visited their company last month it was just amazing how organized, detail orientated and how much they put into their tools. With most everything being a dustless system it just makes good business sense in my line of work to try and leave as little mess as possible, there by saving time and materials in the prep and clean up stage.
> 
> I will update this forum with my use of their tools as I progress farther into Festool.
> 
> Out of curiosity why did you go with a Fein vac rather than a Festool extractor?


Honestly, I saw an ad on craigslist for a used Turbo II for half the price of new. If I were shopping for a new vacuum, it'd be a Festool, probably a C26. I like that you can piggyback your tools on top. Fein makes a good vacuum though, and I don't think I'll need one for a good long while.....leaving me more money to spend on their other tools:thumbsup: Fein makes good tools too, but they're different. Heavy duty solid tools, for lots of use and abuse, but I think they're catering to the Commercial/Industrial crowd, not so much the "precision" crowd. I think Festool could turn Bozo the Clown into a woodworking craftsman.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Work,,,, You did realize that you were sanding drywall joints and NOT a popcorn ceiling,,,,,,didn't ya?????

Check this out,,,, a PC with a vac is a dustless system too,,,,, and like 1500 cheaper.

Not to mention,,, NO-ONE at PC looks at your butt !!!!!!!!:thumbup:


----------



## Workaholic

SlimPickins said:


> Honestly, I saw an ad on craigslist for a used Turbo II for half the price of new. If I were shopping for a new vacuum, it'd be a Festool, probably a C26. I like that you can piggyback your tools on top. Fein makes a good vacuum though, and I don't think I'll need one for a good long while.....leaving me more money to spend on their other tools:thumbsup: Fein makes good tools too, but they're different. Heavy duty solid tools, for lots of use and abuse, but I think they're catering to the Commercial/Industrial crowd, not so much the "precision" crowd. I think Festool could turn Bozo the Clown into a woodworking craftsman.


I am looking at the 26 myself, The right tools for the right job. 



Capt-sheetrock said:


> Work,,,, You did realize that you were sanding drywall joints and NOT a popcorn ceiling,,,,,,didn't ya?????
> 
> Check this out,,,, a PC with a vac is a dustless system too,,,,, and like 1500 cheaper.
> 
> Not to mention,,, NO-ONE at PC looks at your butt !!!!!!!!:thumbup:


Yeah I know it was drywall but I have no doubts it would gring through the popcorn juand painted popcorn too. Yeah I know they are cheaper but do they last as long? 
They would if I went there lol. 

I know I was just demoing the Planex but I would love to try it in real work environments.


----------



## Workaholic

SlimPickins said:


> it'd be a Festool, probably a C26. I like that you can piggyback your tools on top.


Also something to keep in mind is that now all the vacs have the same motor all the way from the mini to the big boy so it is only a matter of how big do you need before changing a bag, plus all are Hepa filters.


----------



## SlimPickins

Workaholic said:


> Also something to keep in mind is that now all the vacs have the same motor all the way from the mini to the big boy so it is only a matter of how big do you need before changing a bag, plus all are Hepa filters.


Well, not only before changing a bag, but how portable do you want to be when hitting the job site....being a "do-it-all" guy, I sometimes find it a bit overwhelming with all of the stuff I need to load in my truck. Hepa filters are good....Fein wants $140 for one I can stuff in my turboII, which will be tacked on to the first job it requires. for now, the 1 micron pleated filter works just fine

I will say this about the turboII....it's cumbersome, and not at all user friendly when you have to get near the motor from the top. But, it's got an auto feature, and it sucks like I wish my......well, nevermind that part.


----------



## Workaholic

SlimPickins said:


> Well, not only before changing a bag, but how portable do you want to be when hitting the job site....being a "do-it-all" guy, I sometimes find it a bit overwhelming with all of the stuff I need to load in my truck. Hepa filters are good....Fein wants $140 for one I can stuff in my turboII, which will be tacked on to the first job it requires. for now, the 1 micron pleated filter works just fine
> 
> I will say this about the turboII....it's cumbersome, and not at all user friendly when you have to get near the motor from the top. But, it's got an auto feature, and it sucks like I wish my......well, nevermind that part.


Good point and if I had put more thought into my post I would of said the same. I like the midi for mobility but if I was sucking up popcorn I was advised the 26 would be a better choice. 

No experience with Fein and new to Festool for that matter.


----------



## Titan Drywall

The Germans know their chit. I was approached by them to about 10 yrs ago to demo a drywall sander they were developing. It was a 8" Random Orbit palm sander that that had casters on one side, and attached to a box pole w/ break and dust extraction. It was 240v so i didn't use it, but a good idea. One of their reps flew over to check out "how" we do drywall in the usa. He spent the better part of a day watching us and asking question. Mainly about screw guns, drills for mixing mud..etc. I will buy their drywall sander next year. I know my guys will love it


----------



## igorson

miket said:


> Im in the middle of a ceiling job. The HO wanted the texture removed and ceiling painted. As far as texture goes this ceiling was one of the uglier ones.
> 
> 
> The ceiling was unpainted. I mentioned that ive heard ceilings can be scraped wet, but my boss(dad) never tried it before and decided to use our PorterCable drywall sander with 80 grit pads which we also had never tried on a textured cieiling. It went much faster than by hand and left it pretty smooth.
> 
> The dust was beyond ridiculous. I had plasticed the walls for spraying and expected a decent amount of dust but not that much. It was crazy. I've sanded skim coated ceilings before and know some dust flies when the machine hits at an angle and expected it to be several times worse with the not so smooth texture but not like that. The vac only collected a tiny fraction of the dust not even a majority of it by a long shot. On the way to the job I picked up norton 80grit hook and loop pads and a norton foam backing pad from home depot. When installing the backing pad i noticed it was almost twice as thick as the foam part on the original combo PC foam/sandpaper pads . With the thick norton the sandpaper sits a hair above the brushes instead of well below them.Ugh. I think thats why the collection was so so bad. Have any of you bought those pads and have a problem, especially on ceilings?
> 
> 
> When wet scraping do you get a lot of digs into the joints? How fast is wet scraping? We own a PC sander and i can say that its defintly faster than hand scraping and leaves a decent finish.
> 
> There are other ceilings to do in this house so if wet scraping is better, i'll try it there.


The very first popcorn remove i also did with Porter Cable but the next job i remove popcorn after wetting the ceiling much less mess, I also do light sanding after removing popcorn and skim coat or orange peel before knockdown. http://1drywall.com/textures.html


----------



## moore

I have never removed popcorn before,,,but I will tomorrow .
h/o painted her bedroom ceiling within hours the popcorn started to flake off . 

The pic is my popcorn catcher..hehe... Seems simpleton:whistling2:If i can dry scrape the entire ceiling my box hawk may work..But If I have to wet scrape It's gonna be a mess...


----------



## Workaholic

I have been sanding it off. I have video of the process but I need to get off my ass and edit it. 

Most popcorn I run into is unpainted so it sands off and scrapes off easily. 

Painted popcorn if it is adhered properly is a bit different. Are you reblowing it or making it slick?


----------



## Philma Crevices

Best method I've found, painted or not is wet with a hudson sparyer or garden hose. Just staple or tape plastic to walls and floor, let it soak a bit, and let 'er rip. Painted comes off a bit more rought of course, but soaking it still helps esp. if its flat paint :thumbsup: Really its not as messy as it sounds.. esp if your doing a small room and catchin it like that.. make some booties out of plastic to tear off when done

Anything done before the 80's may contain asbestos. Best not to dry sand that mess, even with a vac... my process anyway

Make sure to have the room vented fan blowing out a window and wear a mask if you're unsure if it is asbestos man, we don't want ya killin yerself :yes:


----------



## moore

My little invention did not work so well philma...I ended up useing a trash can lid...ceiling was 10 years old so....no asbestos...


say what ya want about glue,,but this ceiling was about to fall.. The only thing holding this unglued ceiling was the strengh of the nailed recess ,and crown moulding ..The old egg holes just won't hold..


----------



## Sir Mixalot

moore said:


> My little invention did not work so well philma...I ended up useing a trash can lid.


We just lay an extra layer of .31 mil plastic over the main floor plastic. 
Then remove the top layer of plastic after the popcorn has been removed. :thumbup:


----------



## Philma Crevices

Sir Mixalot said:


> We just lay an extra layer of .31 mil plastic over the main floor plastic.
> Then remove the top layer of plastic after the popcorn has been removed. :thumbup:


 Yup! One of my favorite passtimes during summer months. Makes for a great sauna or hot yoga area :thumbsup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Yeah it really does feel like a suana once the a/c is cut off, the ceilings are wet and your the boy in a bubble.:sweatdrop:
We use our airless sprayer to to wet the ceilings. :thumbsup:
Here's a video I just put together of a popcorn removal job we just finished yesterday.


----------



## chris

My first drywall job ever was scrapin a popcorn ceiling over 20 yrs ago. Still do one eveyr so often. 
nice vid:thumbsup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Sir Mixalot said:


> Yeah it really does feel like a suana once the a/c is cut off, the ceilings are wet and your the boy in a bubble.:sweatdrop:
> We use our airless sprayer to to wet the ceilings. :thumbsup:
> Here's a video I just put together of a popcorn removal job we just finished yesterday.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH04m1sglgs


So is that the skip trowel

I'm watching you do it, yet I don't get how your doing it:blink:

Now I see myself going back to work on Tuesday, pulling out a hawk and straight knife, and trying to do a skip trowel.

are you using a powder mud/spray mix or something. We don't see that application up here in the land of snow.


----------



## gazman

2buckcanuck said:


> So is that the skip trowel
> 
> I'm watching you do it, yet I don't get how your doing it:blink:
> 
> Now I see myself going back to work on Tuesday, pulling out a hawk and straight knife, and trying to do a skip trowel.
> 
> are you using a powder mud/spray mix or something. We don't see that application up here in the land of snow.



It must be to late 2Buck, off to bed. He is removing popcorn. The spray is to wet it down first.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> It must be to late 2Buck, off to bed. He is removing popcorn. The spray is to wet it down first.


And you have started drinking again









watch from the 1:10 mark to the 1:50 mark

But your right about me being tired, off to bed I go:whistling2:


----------



## gazman

Sorry 2Buck didnt get that far. My youtube froze about 40 secs in, and I assumed that was what the vid was about. SORRY.:jester:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> Sorry 2Buck didnt get that far. My youtube froze about 40 secs in, and I assumed that was what the vid was about. SORRY.:jester:


You tube froze, your trying to talk about freezing to a Canuck









it's called too much alcohol, you passed out.

And whats with the :jester: after your sorry:furious:


----------



## gazman

:jester:Means I feel like a clown.


----------



## Sir Mixalot

2buckcanuck said:


> So is that the skip trowel
> 
> I'm watching you do it, yet I don't get how your doing it:blink:
> 
> Now I see myself going back to work on Tuesday, pulling out a hawk and straight knife, and trying to do a skip trowel.
> 
> are you using a powder mud/spray mix or something. We don't see that application up here in the land of snow.


Yep that's my style of a double skip trowel. 
Double meaning, I put it on in one direction and knock it down in the other.
Regular skip trowel, you just pull it in one direction and leave it.
Personally I don't like the look of the straight line technique (to uniform). 
I use Sheetrock all purpose with the green lid.
I add a couple cups of sand per bucket and thin the mix down a little with water. :thumbup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Here's a close up photo.


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Philma Crevices said:


> Best method I've found, painted or not is wet with a hudson sparyer or garden hose. *Just staple* or tape plastic to walls and floor, let it soak a bit, and let 'er rip. Painted comes off a bit more rought of course, but soaking it still helps esp. if its flat paint :thumbsup: Really its not as messy as it sounds.. esp if your doing a small room and catchin it like that.. make some booties out of plastic to tear off when done.


Here's another one for ya Philma.:whistling2:
Staples. :no:

Push pins and blue painters tape. :yes:


----------



## Philma Crevices

Sir Mixalot said:


> Here's another one for ya Philma.:whistling2:
> Staples. :no:
> 
> Push pins and blue painters tape. :yes:


LOL. Nice indeed!


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Philma Crevices said:


> LOL. Nice indeed!


Only one gold star?







........:tt2:


----------



## Philma Crevices

Sir Mixalot said:


> Only one gold star?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ........:tt2:


 You get all my stars bub!

btw, Your skip makes me think clouds, I really like it. Haven't seen that style out here, though we have mixed a bit of sand in a time or 2. Mostly out here its caked on fairly heavy or what I call tiger stripe (ugly as all hell) I'm pretty picky about my skip :thumbup:


----------



## Philma Crevices

Tiger Stripe- Kinda like this guys but a bit more stripey heh, to each their own, every experienced hand has their own preference





 
Looks like you have a top spot on goolge when searching Skip Trowel Sir Mix, see a few links/pics of yours :thumbsup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Philma Crevices said:


> Tiger Stripe- Kinda like this guys but a bit more stripey heh, to each their own, every experienced hand has their own preference
> 
> skip trowel texture 1.AVI - YouTube
> 
> Looks like you have a top spot on goolge when searching Skip Trowel Sir Mix, see a few links/pics of yours


 The texture in that video is hideous.









Good to know about my skip trowel stuff showing up on Google nationally. 
Thanks for letting me know about that.


















:thumbup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Sir Mixalot said:


> Here's another one for ya Philma.:whistling2:
> Staples. :no:
> 
> Push pins and blue painters tape. :yes:


They also work great for bubbling off smaller areas.:thumbup:


----------



## igorson

I did it both wet and dry lots of times but if you want quality and smooth you need to wet before remove texture and sand the rest after it dry. That is how i do it when need quality 
http://1drywall.com/textures.html


----------



## The_Texture_Guy

I hate northerners. always wanting smooth finishes. i have yet to see a decent smooth finish in Pennsyltucky. they all look like crap. They claim smooth looks great and if the finishers did their jobs it would look good. I havent seen a good slick finish yet. I can find every flaw and imperfection that texture would cover but people are so stubborn and stuck in their ways. 

Not a bad skip trowel peck but if it were sprayed on it may have looked better instead of like it was thrown on unevenly by hand.


----------



## moore

Where the hell is Pennsyltucky?


----------



## Sir Mixalot

The_Texture_Guy said:


> Not a bad skip trowel peck but if it were sprayed on it may have looked better instead of like it was thrown on unevenly by hand.


Hey I give em what they want. :yes: 
I haven't ever had a complaint on my skip trowel in 18 years. :thumbsup:
I take it you can't do Skip trowel. :whistling2:


----------



## The_Texture_Guy

Sir Mixalot said:


> Hey I give em what they want. :yes:
> I haven't ever had a complaint on my skip trowel in 18 years. :thumbsup:
> I take it you can't do Skip trowel. :whistling2:


I can. its just as you know more of a pain. Its more artistic for you sure but so time consuming. 

Pennsyltucky you say? Its the state of Pennsylvania. but they do stuff here so backwards you would think they were half idiots.


----------



## moore

The_Texture_Guy said:


> I can. its just as you know more of a pain. Its more artistic for you sure but so time consuming.
> 
> Pennsyltucky you say? Its the state of Pennsylvania. but they do stuff here so backwards you would think they were half idiots.


 Your ''The texture guy'' Yet your diggin holes....How backwards is that??


----------



## The_Texture_Guy

moore said:


> Your ''The texture guy'' Yet your diggin holes....How backwards is that??



I dont dig holes. I sit at a desk for 12 hours a day and watch a computer screen! I do that for 3 weeks, then i go home and do nothing for 2 weeks. its not so bad. I used to be the texture guy. I still could be if I wanted to. I get call still for it. But the worry of not getting paid right now is to much of a pain. Plus i never wanted to make it a career. No offense to texture guys or anyone in construction, but i know i can do way better than that. I still have big plans for a ******* country clothing line of mine that i have been working on.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

The_Texture_Guy said:


> I still have big plans for a ******* country clothing line of mine that i have been working on.


Unless you can re-invent the baseball cap, I don't see you having too much success:jester:


----------



## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Unless you can re-invent the baseball cap, I don't see you having too much success:jester:


----------



## Workaholic

That Corona hat makes me sick. Worst over priced beer ever. Lower abv than a bud light and twice the price. Any beer you got to put lime in is a sign that they failed in the brewery.


----------



## moore

There imported..so yeah there high priced...still my favorite:thumbsup:
Your closer than me work...drive down there ..They cost a dime a bottle. THE LIMES THE BEST PART!!!

DAMN PAINTERS.. AINT NEVER HAPPY WITH NOTHIN!!


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> DAMN PAINTERS.. AINT NEVER HAPPY WITH NOTHIN!!


So true:yes::thumbup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

The_Texture_Guy said:


> I dont dig holes. I sit at a desk for 12 hours a day and watch a computer screen! I do that for 3 weeks, then i go home and do nothing for 2 weeks. its not so bad. I used to be the texture guy. I still could be if I wanted to. I get call still for it. But the worry of not getting paid right now is to much of a pain. Plus i never wanted to make it a career. No offense to texture guys or anyone in construction, but i know i can do way better than that. I still have big plans for a ******* country clothing line of mine that i have been working on.


I maybe arse backwards being from penciltukey, warchin a puter screen ain't xactly texturin I tink if you could texture you would. Maybe people didn't pay cauze day weren't happy wit yer work, just a thought. Keep us posted on yer ******* duds so wer sure not to get'em.:whistling2:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

2buckcanuck said:


> So true:yes::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


We must have better painters in Pennsyltuckey, they love to follow me and complement my work. Their a swell bunch of guys. Maybe you guys ought to move here, we're busy working and people pay their bills, those Damn Yankees. Can't understand why the texture guy says he HATES Northerners he's up here working and getting paid.:blink: Not to hospitable for a Southern gentleman.


----------



## moore

I have girl painters down here PA...and there hot!! I really enjoy walking in while there cutting in the baseboard...:whistling2:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

moore said:


> I have girl painters down here PA...and there hot!! I really enjoy walking in while there cutting in the baseboard...:whistling2:


We mostly got fat, hairy, old man painters. :icon_sad: You suck.


----------



## moore

Theres a mother / daughter team here [email protected] painting . 
awsome painters ...REALLY good painters ,and fast ,,but they catch hell for the company name.:yes:

Theres tons of REALLY good painters here ..But there fightin for it just like the rest of us.


----------



## Workaholic

moore said:


> There imported..so yeah there high priced...still my favorite:thumbsup:
> Your closer than me work...drive down there ..They cost a dime a bottle. THE LIMES THE BEST PART!!!
> 
> DAMN PAINTERS.. AINT NEVER HAPPY WITH NOTHIN!!


To each their own, just a peeve of mine. I mean 7-8 bucks a six for 4.6% is just not my bag. I have been liking the ipa's that are mid 7% and some stouts that are thick but tasty at 9%. I just feel Corona is over priced and if it needs lime the brewer should add it to the flavor of the beer at the time of inception.


----------



## moore

Workaholic said:


> To each their own, just a peeve of mine. I mean 7-8 bucks a six for 4.6% is just not my bag. I have been liking the ipa's that are mid 7% and some stouts that are thick but tasty at 9%. I just feel Corona is over priced and if it needs lime the brewer should add it to the flavor of the beer at the time of inception.


 The lime adds to the fun..All the cutting and stuffin...lol...:lol:
When was the last time you bought a bottle of teqilia with the salt @lime added? Hell.. Sometimes I get drunk enough ta throw another worm in there...


----------



## Sir Mixalot

moore said:


> I have girl painters down here PA...and there hot!! I really enjoy walking in while there cutting in the baseboard...:whistling2:


Must be a southern thang.:thumbup:


----------

