# Priming and Texture



## A+ Texture LLC

2 Questions
1. When you guys prime before texuring (new rock) do you do it for the purpose of the texture adhereing to the rock better, or for the purpose of it drying evenly for a consistant knockdown? The companies here all shoot on bare rock and just knockdown right away or sand when dry.

2. When skimming to retexture do you prime before skimming, after skimming and before texture or just after texture? I've heard all three ways so I wanted to see what YOU guys had to say on it.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

A+

1. Are usual process, honestly, is we never feel the use for a primer (on bare rock...or new drywall, whatever you wanna call it....IF im understanding you correctly when you say 'bare' rock).

If we DID.......the main purpose i would see it as is so everything blends evenly........the primer would act to bring everything to one, uniform level. If your finishing work / sanding is good enough of course.....the primer is unnecessary......especially on a standard level 4.

Now, just because i never have my guys primer, i never said it was 'bad'.......my personal opinion is that it never hurts. And although it can be minor, i never spend the extra cost and labor to apply it.

as far as i know, a lot of companies rarely use a primer before texturing (on new drywall), unless requested.

and btw, do people really SAND the texture down to achieve a 'knockdown texture?' hahahah.....no offense to anyone who MAY do this method for knockdown...but to me, that sounds bad.

when we do a knockdown texture on new drywall, we spray it......let it dry for about 10 mins/room.......then comeback and use a broad 24" or so plastic knife with an extension handle to 'knock' it down.

after 10 minutes, the initial spray stiffens up a bit to allow the knocking down.........do it too soon, and itll just end up looking amateur and un-uniform -- or too knocked down (flat).

2. it really depends A+ on the condition of the area to be skimmed......
if its questionable, i always have my guys do test squares of about 2 x 2 with mud........then we just wait to see how it reacts to the raw wall basically.

if you do this, and find the mud bubbling (due to whatever chemical might be on the existing surface trying to escape) then yea, you should roll on a primer/shellac......whatever.

and after the areas are completely skim coated....are you asking if we put on primer on top of that?......if so, no....i never do that at least. unnecessary. (again, each case is different though).

as far as priming AFTER texture (if this is also what u are asking).........around here, painters usually do it. rarely have i primed post-texture.

hope that helps A+.


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## A+ Texture LLC

I don't prime before texture I just ase a squegge type knife right after I shoot. But here and elsewhere People have suggested you should, a waste of time in my opinion.
On skimming I think maybe the only time to prime might be on real glossy walls, but I've read other posts where some say prime before skimming and some say before texture. If you followed this advice you'd end up priming 3 times by the time you paint your finish coat. Seems like a waste of money. And time. I'd still like to hear some other opinions though.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

A+ Texture LLC said:


> I don't prime before texture I just ase a squegge type knife right after I shoot. But here and elsewhere People have suggested you should, a waste of time in my opinion.
> On skimming I think maybe the only time to prime might be on real glossy walls, but I've read other posts where some say prime before skimming and some say before texture. If you followed this advice you'd end up priming 3 times by the time you paint your finish coat. Seems like a waste of money. And time. I'd still like to hear some other opinions though.


exactly. youd end up priming 3 times!!!!????

it is a waste of money, especially if you are doing production style homes.

if this was high-end custom residential......high-end specs across the board, etc etc......than yes, prime before you texture...but still, thats it.

i dont see the use going beyond one prime.

and yes, u are right on glossy walls...

still.....i would test areas of those glossy walls even with mud to see how they react.

quick note: on a small bathroom skim/retexture......i was stubborn and didnt have my guy prime the walls NOR did i have him perform 'test' areas with mud........i just told him to go gung ho and start skimming the hell outta the bathroom walls, although i knew there was a high gloss paint.

i figured at the most, i would have to do a spot touch-up on areas that bubbled due to the gloss paint.

well......i ended up skimming this freakin bathroom THREE and a half times hahahhaha. my finisher was very frustrated with my stubbornness although i could tell he was afraid to express it hahhahahha......ill never forget when he looked at me on the 3rd skim coat as he passed over the bubbling and finally goes.... "boss......im getting paid for this right?"

hahhahahhaha....priceless. the thing that bit me in the azz, was the bubbling wasnt apparent until the NEXT day.....even by the end of the 1st skim coat, my finisher said it was just bubbling minor......but we thought a spot touchup the 2nd day would do. yea, i was wrong.


sighhh.....thank god it was a tiny bathroom...but still, i learned a huge lesson haha...

all in all, never hurts to be cautious.....and i admit i DEFINITELY cut corners just to get the job done fast.

if i primed originally, then skim coated....i coulda textured the 2nd day and walk away from the job. i instead ended up texturing on the 4th freakin work day.


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## alltex

around here its standard now days to prime before texture.seems like everyone wants lite orange peel and if you don,t prime first the mud lines can photograph threw and give the painter a hard time.for knockdown i usualy try to talk them out of it becaus it covers mor and it doesnt do any good


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## A+ Texture LLC

Ya know... I think everyone should have those times. Nothing makes a learning experience a learning experience better than those situations. They sure do make you pissin mad at the time but hopefully it's the first and last time.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

alltex said:


> around here its standard now days to prime before texture.seems like everyone wants lite orange peel and if you don,t prime first the mud lines can photograph threw and give the painter a hard time.for knockdown i usualy try to talk them out of it becaus it covers mor and it doesnt do any good


Alltex,

if the finishing and sanding is done RIGHT mud lines will not photograph, just my honest opinion.

again, it NEVER hurts to prime, but if the sanding is done correctly, ive never (well, i wont say never), MOST of the time you will not see anything.

now like i said, this is true of GOOD finishing......

ive surely seen what you are talking about on hack finishing jobs, so you are by no means wrong in any way.

on 99% of the jobs we perform, its without primer.


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## silverstilts

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> Alltex,
> 
> if the finishing and sanding is done RIGHT mud lines will not photograph, just my honest opinion.
> 
> again, it NEVER hurts to prime, but if the sanding is done correctly, ive never (well, i wont say never), MOST of the time you will not see anything.
> 
> now like i said, this is true of GOOD finishing......
> 
> ive surely seen what you are talking about on hack finishing jobs, so you are by no means wrong in any way.
> 
> on 99% of the jobs we perform, its without primer.


I never prime before textures , If you have mud lines it is because it is not finished properly before textures , even with paint/primer as Custom states it will not fill in any ridges they will still be there..... Prime before textures is a waist of time and money.... use the time instead to properly tape & coat (and sanding if necessary) prior to textures therefore providing a quality job.. the only time I would use a primer is if the job is a respray and I do not want any bleeding to come through ..


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## silverstilts

A+ Texture LLC said:


> 2 Questions
> 1. When you guys prime before texuring (new rock) do you do it for the purpose of the texture adhereing to the rock better, or for the purpose of it drying evenly for a consistant knockdown? The companies here all shoot on bare rock and just knockdown right away or sand when dry.
> 
> 2. When skimming to retexture do you prime before skimming, after skimming and before texture or just after texture? I've heard all three ways so I wanted to see what YOU guys had to say on it.


 I have heard of some sanding to get the effect of a knock-down after spraying , my opinion on the matter is this is not a knock down and it is also time consuming and creates dust that gets into the crevices which can cause some extra grief for the priming getting it to bond . It will not give you a very uniform look but make it look much rough .... as far as primer before textures it is not necessary to do for the text to bond ,,,, Think about it this way you wouldn't prime all the walls and ceilings before you tape and coat for the taping process to bond would you ? Of course not you just tape over bare sheetrock.. likewise texture will bond on bare rock..


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## alltex

i dont realy know any more we have been priming first for 15 years at least and the builders expect it .i always thouht it was bull too but its the norm now.since i dont paint ijust give em what they want.i


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## silverstilts

alltex said:


> i dont realy know any more we have been priming first for 15 years at least and the builders expect it .i always thouht it was bull too but its the norm now.since i dont paint ijust give em what they want.i


 When I am asked if I prime before texturing and tell them no they ask why , I usually turn the question back at them and ask them why would it need it and why it is necessary , they usually don't have an answer to validate doing it and it is left at that... Unless you charge extra for it you are on the losing end , General Contractors get enough freebies always want an extra for nothing , well my freind there isn't anything for free now days ,,,, have some mechanic work done on you car and ask him if he will throw an oil change in for free and see what they say.


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## alltex

its not free it costs more than just texture.about 5 cents or for knock down same price because of extra wipe down time.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> When I am asked if I prime before texturing and tell them no they ask why , I usually turn the question back at them and ask them why would it need it and why it is necessary , they usually don't have an answer to validate doing it and it is left at that... Unless you charge extra for it you are on the losing end , General Contractors get enough freebies always want an extra for nothing , well my freind there isn't anything for free now days ,,,, have some mechanic work done on you car and ask him if he will throw an oil change in for free and see what they say.


yea, exactly....i do the SAME thing, turn it around on em....

Alltex, remember that YOU are the drywall contractor.....the General Contractor isnt.

if fumbling, think-they-know-it-all Generals had it their way, us drywall contractors would probably be priming before we tape also, and not getting paid for the extra because they think its 'standard.'

and before we know it, we'll be priming 7-8 times when its all said and done, hahha.

dont let them fool you Alltex. if you are or you aren't, get educated on the proper procedures so you can have substance to go back on the General for. Most people on here will be MORE than happy to answer nearly any questions you have.

theres never a stupid question, trust me.

I'd be screwed if i let all the generals i've faced dictate 'how' my company should be finishing my drywall.

and on the flipside, im sure ALL you would agree that the best generals to work for, are the ones that realize YOU are the drywall contractor, not them.


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## eastex1963

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> yea, exactly....i do the SAME thing, turn it around on em....
> 
> Alltex, remember that YOU are the drywall contractor.....the General Contractor isnt.
> 
> if fumbling, think-they-know-it-all Generals had it their way, us drywall contractors would probably be priming before we tape also, and not getting paid for the extra because they think its 'standard.'
> 
> and before we know it, we'll be priming 7-8 times when its all said and done, hahha.
> 
> dont let them fool you Alltex. if you are or you aren't, get educated on the proper procedures so you can have substance to go back on the General for. Most people on here will be MORE than happy to answer nearly any questions you have.
> 
> theres never a stupid question, trust me.
> 
> I'd be screwed if i let all the generals i've faced dictate 'how' my company should be finishing my drywall.
> 
> and on the flipside, im sure ALL you would agree that the best generals to work for, are the ones that realize YOU are the drywall contractor, not them.



Guess what........

I agree.:whistling2:


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## silverstilts

alltex said:


> its not free it costs more than just texture.about 5 cents or for knock down same price because of extra wipe down time.


 now i am confused because .05 cents is not enough to cover your time not to mention the cost of primer and whatever you use for texture... I myself use to do an add on at .30 per ft for just knock down but all that did was confuse the GC so now i just incorporate it into my taping price.... buy the way I do not ever break down per ft anymore what i charge I only show a dollar amount , I have my reasons , the main one is if they do there homework they can figure out the footage .... Tired of people just comparing sq ft prices , let them look at the total and think someone else screwed up , they usually only look at the bottom price anyway....and they always like to deduct if there is 1 or 2 sheets left over , this way i usually tell them i order a few extra to make sure I have enough ... does that make sense ?


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> now i am confused because .05 cents is not enough to cover your time not to mention the cost of primer and whatever you use for texture... I myself use to do an add on at .30 per ft for just knock down but all that did was confuse the GC so now i just incorporate it into my taping price.... buy the way I do not ever break down per ft anymore what i charge I only show a dollar amount , I have my reasons , the main one is if they do there homework they can figure out the footage .... Tired of people just comparing sq ft prices , let them look at the total and think someone else screwed up , they usually only look at the bottom price anyway....and they always like to deduct if there is 1 or 2 sheets left over , this way i usually tell them i order a few extra to make sure I have enough ... does that make sense ?


:clap:
YES!

Jesus, i cant tell you how glad i am this was addressed. from a business-standpoint, WHY THE FU-K would anyone EVER breakdown a price to a customer like this, UNLESS they had to pull your leg to find out....??

i was thinking the same thing stilts mentioned about Alltex, .05 per foot? not only is that low, but......is that the price for the general? just confusing perhaps, the way it was worded...i dunno...

bottomline, when i give a STANDARD price (let me know if you guys agree or disagree), that generally includes:

Materials
Labor (hang, tape, level 4 finishing, spray-texture, cleanup)

thats IT. and i make DAMN sure never to breakdown the price for each of those, never.

when prices per sf are exchanged on this forum, i understand theres some companies out there, that perhaps do....JUST hanging........or JUST finishing......or JUST finishing & texture, etc...

so, i 'get' having to break it down seperately......

but i generally think its a bad idea if you consider your company 'full service complete drywall' to be breaking down prices. i really do.

again, let me know if you guys agree or not, but simply.......the SMARTER you make the general contractor (or end-customer) on your pricing methods..........the more of a DISADVANTAGE you put yourself in terms of leverage and future negotiations.....simple as that.

dont nail yourself in a position Alltex, where nextime the generals gonna ask you "well hey, i just want you to prime this wall for me, period..........05 cents per foot yea? go at it"

if you start breaking down prices, and making your business more transparent, itll just nail you in the end, believe me. i made that mistake once, and only once.

theres a fine line between GOOD business transparency and BAD business transparency.......

like stilts said, ONE price. if the customer needs more 'clarification'.....let THEM come to you.

the average person, you'll just confuse them if you break everything down, and they'll most likely not think about it.

but all it takes, is the 'chicken hawk' general contractor types, to try and nail you to the cross on the next go around.........finding any way they can to loophole and take advantage of you.

if anything Alltex, i STRONGLY stand behind everything i just said particularly on this post.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

eastex1963 said:


> Guess what........
> 
> I agree.:whistling2:


:drink: :drink:


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## A+ Texture LLC

You guys are right, if you give a sq. ft. price the GC will just try to knit pick your jobs after that. They'll deduct for windows, doors or whatever. Or just try to figure out bd ft themselves and it will naturally be less then what you came up with. Then try to make you second guess yourself or act like your trying to rip them off. I'm an honest person, maybe too honest so when someone acts like I'm trying to rip them off it just makes me wanna pop'em in the jaw. The other problem will be air head HO's trying to bring their total cost down. How much more for this how much less for this, what if I do this but not this. You know, the type that refers to to stucco as plaster, plaster as drywall, drywall as stucco and when you use these words they look at you like a deer in headlights. Keep askin me these dumb questions and your bill will ONLY GO UP!!!:furious: Thats when you refer them to your competitor (the one you don't like).


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

A+ Texture LLC said:


> You guys are right, if you give a sq. ft. price the GC will just try to knit pick your jobs after that. They'll deduct for windows, doors or whatever. Or just try to figure out bd ft themselves and it will naturally be less then what you came up with. Then try to make you second guess yourself or act like your trying to rip them off. I'm an honest person, maybe too honest so when someone acts like I'm trying to rip them off it just makes me wanna pop'em in the jaw. The other problem will be air head HO's trying to bring their total cost down. How much more for this how much less for this, what if I do this but not this. You know, the type that refers to to stucco as plaster, plaster as drywall, drywall as stucco and when you use these words they look at you like a deer in headlights. Keep askin me these dumb questions and your bill will ONLY GO UP!!!:furious: Thats when you refer them to your competitor (the one you don't like).


that is the worst, normal homeowners that i deem as the 'public sector' hahah.

your 100% right A+, .....i cant tell you how many times a customer asks me to 'replaster' there house....i always have to cut them off and be like "do you want me to replaster your house, as in ....plaster-plaster.......? or are you talking about sheetrock...?"

haha....

'airhead' is a perfect term for some of these homeowners hahaha........i had this one recent remodel, where this lady was like "well, if i deduct the 2 round corners in this area, how much can you credit me back....?

the lady looks at me like im going to deduct 1-200 bucks for ditching 16 linear ft of cornerbead hahhahahha...........

ah, well...cant get too hard on em though....they simply just do not know any better.

gotta love em!


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## alltex

i,m not too good with wording i admit and frankly i dont give a f*##*k what anyone thinks about how i do business.I prime and texture for 10 cents and make $100 per hour when i do ..if you charge 30 cents just for knock down your a ripoff or you dont have the equipment or know how!


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## A+ Texture LLC

Ruh Roh, theres a storm blowin in...


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

A+ Texture LLC said:


> Ruh Roh, theres a storm blowin in...


....


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## silverstilts

alltex said:


> i,m not too good with wording i admit and frankly i dont give a f*##*k what anyone thinks about how i do business.I prime and texture for 10 cents and make $100 per hour when i do ..if you charge 30 cents just for knock down your a ripoff or you dont have the equipment or know how!


OH MY, do we have some feathers ruffled ? Don't be a schmuck.. I as a well seasoned and successful drywall contractor I will let that one slide without getting to upset . But at .10 I doubt that you make $100.00 per hour. or at least for very long unless you have an awful big sprayer and you run it steady 8-10 hrs a day.... Yes I do have equipment more than you can imagine , I have more equipment than most larger companies so PLEASE don't talk about something you know nothing about..... and as far as the .30 per ft that is not ripping off anyone , a 2000 sq. ft. home an add on of $600.00 for the extra labor and material , not to mention my profit ,(I won't tell you how much an hour I make ) where do you get off . Do you know how to turn a buck ? Some of us do it with ease and , for most it is a struggle from day to day . I take in no less than $1500.00 per day (that is the very least ) so i do very well for myself..Can you say the same ? and be honest now average out the last 10 years or so and see if you can do that. But than again my be that you don't have 10 years behind you yet , me I could go back over 30 years .


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## rckslash2010

I think it's bull**** that people make more shooting a ceiling then I make hanging it. A little sanding, shoot the **** up there, wipe it down. I suppose it's a specialty thing, like nobody else in town can do it. " I've got a $5000 sprayer" so what, I've seen people use just a hopper and an air compressor and it turns out just as good, so you can't use the equipment expense as an excuse.  Good day,


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## silverstilts

rckslash2010 said:


> I think it's bull**** that people make more shooting a ceiling then I make hanging it. A little sanding, shoot the **** up there, wipe it down. I suppose it's a specialty thing, like nobody else in town can do it. " I've got a $5000 sprayer" so what, I've seen people use just a hopper and an air compressor and it turns out just as good, so you can't use the equipment expense as an excuse.  Good day,


 Someone call the wambulance , sure it's a specialty but not all can just pick up a sprayer and texture there is more too it than that. and personally I believe that you will never get or it will turn out just as good by spraying with a hopper and air compressor (maybe for a quick repair) not only that it takes forever to spray with just a hopper. If you are unhappy with the money you make hanging change your occupation ...You have a good day.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

We only use hoppers for small to midsizes patches for a reason. if the area is big enough, i haul in our spray rig. even though i do not like to do this if it is unnecessary, the texture always turns out much better and more even. i find the hopper is too aerated, makes the texture tend to have a more 'bubbly' look, which i do not like.

this is from the hopper i have at least.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

rckslash2010 said:


> I think it's bull**** that people make more shooting a ceiling then I make hanging it. A little sanding, shoot the **** up there, wipe it down. I suppose it's a specialty thing, like nobody else in town can do it. " I've got a $5000 sprayer" so what, I've seen people use just a hopper and an air compressor and it turns out just as good, so you can't use the equipment expense as an excuse.  Good day,


well, i dont think its THAT 'black and white'........no, its not as simple as a little sanding.

every single case is different. and honestly , this is the very reason why a lot of claims and pricing gets taken the wrong way on here i feel........we are all merely reading this, not actually in front of the job at hand.


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## dawes11

silverstilts said:


> OH MY, do we have some feathers ruffled ? Don't be a schmuck.. I as a well seasoned and successful drywall contractor I will let that one slide without getting to upset . But at .10 I doubt that you make $100.00 per hour. or at least for very long unless you have an awful big sprayer and you run it steady 8-10 hrs a day.... Yes I do have equipment more than you can imagine , I have more equipment than most larger companies so PLEASE don't talk about something you know nothing about..... and as far as the .30 per ft that is not ripping off anyone , a 2000 sq. ft. home an add on of $600.00 for the extra labor and material , not to mention my profit ,(I won't tell you how much an hour I make ) where do you get off . Do you know how to turn a buck ? Some of us do it with ease and , for most it is a struggle from day to day . I take in no less than $1500.00 per day (that is the very least ) so i do very well for myself..Can you say the same ? and be honest now average out the last 10 years or so and see if you can do that. But than again my be that you don't have 10 years behind you yet , me I could go back over 30 years .


I think that there is a confusion on square footage charges here. Im thinking alltex meant .10 a board foot and silver stilts obviously means .30 a square foot of floor space. I work in Wa state and to tell you the truth it has become a standard practice to prime before texture. On a average say 200 sheet house it takes less than a hour to prime and about $150.00 in materials, at a nickel a foot extra priming pays $480.00. Then its a nickel to texture also. Now these prices are never broken down to the gc or owner, this is just for you guys. It is figured in the overall price that is submitted, again not broken down for them. For me its pretty easy, I have to mask before texture anyway, so it takes an extra hour and a little material, you make a few hundred more dollars. When we submit a bid it never had footages and prices for each on it, just cost to supply, install, scrap, tape and finish, mask, prime and tex as one lump figure. The no-coat and corner bead are broke out as extras, but thats it. Hopefully I didnt ramble to long for you guys.


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## silverstilts

There is no confusion I know full well what was meant by Sq. (board FT) Board Ft for your information is something used to calculate the total sq ft in lumber , for instance a 2"x4'x8' is 5.33 board ft ,, sheet rock is somewhat based on per thousand also but yet different thickness isn't figured into it , that set aside , there is still no way at .05 for primer that it is going to make you any money , I would like to see that prime job you do in an hour of 200 sheets. myself i don't think it can be done that is with any quality ... Is that back rolled also or are you just fogging in the walls and ceilings ? You were correct .30 on textures on all footage I used a 2000' ceiling only as an example did not include walls if I had the price would have been more like $2400 to spray all the walls also , and No way would i have included any prime coat prior because that again is a waist of time and material the primer alone would run closer to 700-800 not no $150.00 what kinda watered down primer are you using anyway ? Prime coat should go for no less than $1600.00 for that 2000 sg ft home.


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## dawes11

silverstilts said:


> There is no confusion I know full well what was meant by Sq. (board FT) Board Ft for your information is something used to calculate the total sq ft in lumber , for instance a 2"x4'x8' is 5.33 board ft ,, sheet rock is somewhat based on per thousand also but yet different thickness isn't figured into it , that set aside , there is still no way at .05 for primer that it is going to make you any money , I would like to see that prime job you do in an hour of 200 sheets. myself i don't think it can be done that is with any quality ... Is that back rolled also or are you just fogging in the walls and ceilings ? You were correct .30 on textures on all footage I used a 2000' ceiling only as an example did not include walls if I had the price would have been more like $2400 to spray all the walls also , and No way would i have included any prime coat prior because that again is a waist of time and material the primer alone would run closer to 700-800 not no $150.00 what kinda watered down primer are you using anyway ? Prime coat should go for no less than $1600.00 for that 2000 sg ft home.


Wow, sorry I even talked and get slammed, I was just trying to clarify and calm the waters. The primer i use costs us $5.50 a gallon up here from parker paint. $27.50 a 5 gallon bucket and we spray about 40 sheets a 5. I use a graco ultra 625 sprayer with a 5 .19 or .21 tip and just blow it on solid white. It is a good primer, the same one the painters use afterwords, but regardless it would be just over $150.00 in materials and an hour to spray. We don't backroll, cause like you said it is a waste of time to prime before hand, but the builder wants to see white walls and if it makes extra money who cares. I might not have your 30+ years of experience, but I have 16+ and thats enough to know what I need to and how to make money. The only time we don't prime before hand is smoothwall,l commercial, and knockdown, wich is so old school we dont spray unless its a addition where the rest of the house has it. I'm sorry that you get so fired up about people having different techniques than you and different terminology, but again we are in different areas of the country and stuff is done and said, and bid different. 
Danny


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## Whitey97

I don't like bull-nose bead. I just don't think it looks as clean as 90's


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Whitey97 said:


> I don't like bull-nose bead. I just don't think it looks as clean as 90's


yea, to each his own.

although, my personal tastes are more clean and modern....so i definitely prefer square.

either that, or baby bullnose (1/2" radius).

the 3/4" round corner bullnose is gettin played out if you ask me


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## A+ Texture LLC

I think .30 is fair, think about it.. Many drywall jobs end at texture. So if a painter is gonna come in and prime and paint and charge lets say .60 - $1.00 for each coat, (one of primer and one of whatever) whats wrong with charging .30?


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## dawes11

.30 is fine, its just each area has a different market and up here you dont get .30 a foot. Yeah I can be the guy to argue with the gc or I can be working and still make plenty of money. 
As for the bullnose I do like the baby bull but it seems on the high end everyone is going back to square. In the 90's the bullnose caught on at the track home level, where they would have us bullnose the formal areas and then square the rest. It was stupid, and now they have moved to full bullnose the house and every starter home comes with bullnose. I love when people spend 300k on a starter home and I go over they always have to show me their "round corners".


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## [email protected]

Yep, .30 per floor foot works out to .075 cent a board foot for KD. I figure .08 on KD and .05 - .06 on acoustic. I haven't done a house in acoustic since last summer.

And to Rockslash, my spray rig cost $23,500 _before_ the truck/trailer to get it to the job. And yes, I've seen guys who own nothing more than a hopper, but know what? Those guys all need rotator cuff surgery, which I've seen done on TV, but don't think I can do it myself. It takes over 2 years to train someone to run a spray rig correctly. The variances in temp., humidity, etc, not to mention maintaining the pumps, motor, hoses, guns, tips makes the spray man a pretty special dude.

I have sprayed 50K + in a single day before, pumping 90+ boxes of mud in a ten hour day. And hung a few hundred acres of rock and I'd rather spray any day.

Old dude told me once: You hang til yer knees get bad. Then you tape til yer elbows give out. You spray til yer shoulders hurt. You sand/paint til you can't get yer breath. Then you better learn to contract. I skipped a step on the sanding and somewhat on the taping. But it does make a little sense.

On primer price: I get .60 per floor/.15 per board foot to paint out the ceilings and prime the walls, after KD. Paint out the ceilings meaning I cross-hatch with the airless and back-roll, using a pva/latex that needs no overcoat when I'm done. And you can pretty much see thru my wall prime, ready for 2 coats of color to be rolled on. With the instructions to pole sand the walls prior to color rolling.

And here in the midwest, we lag CA by about 5-7 years on what's in vogue. Bull-nose has gotten real popular last 2-3 years, everybody starting to give it up for free. Still try to get $10 per stick, but it ain't easy. Usually get about .035 extra on a good day. I push the baby bull cause the arches aren't slit, but I see Trim-Tex now has an unslit sprung arch bead in 3/4.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

dawes11 said:


> .30 is fine, its just each area has a different market and up here you dont get .30 a foot. Yeah I can be the guy to argue with the gc or I can be working and still make plenty of money.
> As for the bullnose I do like the baby bull but it seems on the high end everyone is going back to square. In the 90's the bullnose caught on at the track home level, where they would have us bullnose the formal areas and then square the rest. It was stupid, and now they have moved to full bullnose the house and every starter home comes with bullnose. I love when people spend 300k on a starter home and I go over they always have to show me their "round corners".


no kidding man.....if HO only knew how 'unspectacular' they were........let alone how inexpensive.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> Yep, .30 per floor foot works out to .075 cent a board foot for KD. I figure .08 on KD and .05 - .06 on acoustic. I haven't done a house in acoustic since last summer.
> 
> And to Rockslash, my spray rig cost $23,500 _before_ the truck/trailer to get it to the job. And yes, I've seen guys who own nothing more than a hopper, but know what? Those guys all need rotator cuff surgery, which I've seen done on TV, but don't think I can do it myself. It takes over 2 years to train someone to run a spray rig correctly. The variances in temp., humidity, etc, not to mention maintaining the pumps, motor, hoses, guns, tips makes the spray man a pretty special dude.
> 
> I have sprayed 50K + in a single day before, pumping 90+ boxes of mud in a ten hour day. And hung a few hundred acres of rock and I'd rather spray any day.
> 
> Old dude told me once: You hang til yer knees get bad. Then you tape til yer elbows give out. You spray til yer shoulders hurt. You sand/paint til you can't get yer breath. Then you better learn to contract. I skipped a step on the sanding and somewhat on the taping. But it does make a little sense.
> 
> On primer price: I get .60 per floor/.15 per board foot to paint out the ceilings and prime the walls, after KD. Paint out the ceilings meaning I cross-hatch with the airless and back-roll, using a pva/latex that needs no overcoat when I'm done. And you can pretty much see thru my wall prime, ready for 2 coats of color to be rolled on. With the instructions to pole sand the walls prior to color rolling.
> 
> And here in the midwest, we lag CA by about 5-7 years on what's in vogue. Bull-nose has gotten real popular last 2-3 years, everybody starting to give it up for free. Still try to get $10 per stick, but it ain't easy. Usually get about .035 extra on a good day. I push the baby bull cause the arches aren't slit, but I see Trim-Tex now has an unslit sprung arch bead in 3/4.


i love trim tex bead.


anyways, Darren....about the spray rig. Every company that owns one knows how freakin 'particular' a spray rig is, sigh.......i.e., its like a woman!

it need so much attention. i cant tell you how much money ive spent over the years fixing and maintaining that stupid thing. its an ongoing joke at our company, every week we go "so whats going to go wrong with the rig this week" or "on what job will this rig fu-k is over on this week?"

hahhaha.....

and you are absolutely right Darren, takes a skilled person to handle the spray rig. honestly, i only have my Foreman maintain and use it for now.

i had a super talented spray man years ago, but the SOB left to another company for 'higher wages'.......but now, that company is out of business. he tried to come crawling back, but i honestly spit in the face of unloyalty.

but at any rate, yea...the spray rig is a big investment overall. mine cost about the same Darren, 22 - 24k.

its a pain in the azz, but id be lying if i told you guys it wasnt worth it.


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## [email protected]

Yep, it paid for itself in 12 months at 5 houses per week.

But if it ain't goin' out 3-4 times a week, it's hard to justify. But since it's paid for and now trailered, it doesn't eat my lunch. Keeping up an 18' box truck ate lunch and dinner.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> Yep, it paid for itself in 12 months at 5 houses per week.
> 
> But if it ain't goin' out 3-4 times a week, it's hard to justify. But since it's paid for and now trailered, it doesn't eat my lunch. Keeping up an 18' box truck ate lunch and dinner.


man, sure feel you on that.

man, i paid my rig off in less time than that when it was booming...but im talkin yearrrrs ago when i was doing tract work.

nowadays.........damn thing is leavin the parking lot once a week, if that.

sigh.


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## [email protected]

Silver lining though....at this rate, my stator tubes last about 2 years. Still have enough extra parts to rebuild both pumps a couple more times. Used to change out the stator every third tube and saved all of 'em. I looked them over awhile back, and there is nothing wrong with using them again, none were scored up.

But opened the acoustic tank yesterday...would knock a buzzard off a turd hearse. Had to clean that out. It was vile.


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## eastex1963

[email protected] said:


> Silver lining though....at this rate, my stator tubes last about 2 years. Still have enough extra parts to rebuild both pumps a couple more times. Used to change out the stator every third tube and saved all of 'em. I looked them over awhile back, and there is nothing wrong with using them again, none were scored up.
> 
> But opened the acoustic tank yesterday...would knock a buzzard off a turd hearse. Had to clean that out. It was vile.


"buzzard off a turd hearse"...LMAO...that's too funny!! still laughing!

Kinda just to chime in here.... I still use a hopper...(guess I'm old fashioned). Anyways, that's what my dad taught me on...still use one. I've looked into getting a spray rig, but like you guys said...takes two years to learn to run, breaks down, etc. etc...The spray setup I have now is approx. 15 yrs. old...used it today. Still going strong..Knock on wood! It'll probably blow up tomorrow now that I've bragged on it. lol.


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## Whitey97

Believe me, if you put the hopper down and get a decent sized rig, you will never look back. I haven't and I just got a rtx 1500 a short while ago. f'n love it. So much, I tend to dance while using it I'm so happy


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

yea rigs are great.

all depends obviously on the size of work you do, whether an investment into a rig would be justified.

g--ddamn thing does break down at the worst of times though, sigh.

we had a job a year ago, in the freakin mountains.......im talkin normally, a TWO hour drive up a hill......

can you imagine how long this trip was with a spray rig FULL of mud because we couldnt mix on-site?

yea....about 3-3.5 hrs.......sigh.


and yea, of course....we finally arive to the job, and the rig breaks down before my guys even finish ONE FKKN BEDROOM.......

sigh, times like this are so fkked.........you cant help but laugh, hahahha.


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## A+ Texture LLC

Whitey97 said:


> Believe me, if you put the hopper down and get a decent sized rig, you will never look back. I haven't and I just got a rtx 1500 a short while ago. f'n love it. So much, I tend to dance while using it I'm so happy


 I got one not too long ago and my tips including the fine finished tips got to the trash I think. I was so frikkin bummed. At least I got the one that was on the gun. I can still do a good heavier orange peel or knockdown.


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## BIGHAWKMONTANA

Has anyone ever changed a stator tube on a Kodiak? Any tips?


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## [email protected]

PM me and will try to walk you through it on the phone.


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## BIGHAWKMONTANA

Thanks DP... I'm waiting for the part, if I have any snags I'll give you call.

Appreciate the reply.


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## Whitey97

Big Hawk, How's biz out in the mnts? It still looked like they were building there last time I was out. (we have a place in Ennis)


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## BIGHAWKMONTANA

The housing has slowed... fair amout of small commercial work though...


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## tvo

I always prime and then texture,i do not put a box of mud on 4*8 of rock, just a light spatter nice and even and knoke it down,so i have to prime to hide the tapied lines,so i prime,spatter,knoke down and it's done, everything done, looks nice and white you don't have to do anything esle!! make sure it's dry when you look at the finish takes a while to turn white!!!!!!!!!!


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## JCardoza

I quit spraying a year ago when things started going downhill. Sold out most of my tools but kept my spray rigs. Rent my main trailer mount rig out for $25 per running hour. I'd charge more, but I rent it to my Dad who loaned me the cash to buy it when things were booming. I've made a few grand or so on it this year without lifting a finger. Kinda nice. 

Anyway, before I quit, I started double spraying all my spray knock down texture. I'd run thru a floor of condos and shoot a light orange peel, then turn around and spray it again with a medium knockdown. It helped get rid of the joint flashing problems that come when you are rushing a knockdown in extreme temperatures. It's a tighter texture than a regular knockdown and covers more. Its great as long as you like the look. Went from high stress to a worry free texture easily. I was able to charge more for it besides. There is nothing like taking your time with thick mud and good temperatures, but when you have a half day to spray 40,000 feet with a helper and they want it perfect... Double spray makes life so much easier. If only I had found a better way to lug several hundred pounds of hose up several floors....

Wow, I'm missing the good old spray days.... Oh well. Back to plaster remodel in the morning. 

Oh, as far as prices, I used to sand, mask, texture (stomp kd lids, Orange peel walls or KD & KD), and a full clean up for .05 a Sq Ft of drywall. I could only dream of charging .30 for a spray texture....


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

JCardoza said:


> ...I started double spraying all my spray knock down texture. I'd run thru a floor of condos and shoot a light orange peel, then turn around and spray it again with a medium knockdown.....


good to hear, i make this standard practice for my spray guy as well whenever we can.

same thing as you practically, spray a few rooms light, let them dry a bit, then come back w/ another light - medium spray.

reason we do this is not necessarily to specifically avoid joint flashing, although it doesnt hurt, but it just overall hides any tiny imperfections.

what i cant stand when i see competitors spray textures, is how LIGHT they spray it sometimes.....doesnt make any sense unless the owner/builder specifically requests a 'fine spray.'

i always prefer a 'double-spray' simply because it makes the texture 'stronger.'


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## JCardoza

Most of the reason the mid range drywall guys like to spray a fine texture is because their Graco compact sprayer (or equivalent) can't handle thick mud. Then once a guy gets used to fine light textures, everything else seems to heavy. Been there. Done that.


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## dawes11

JCardoza said:


> Most of the reason the mid range drywall guys like to spray a fine texture is because their Graco compact sprayer (or equivalent) can't handle thick mud. Then once a guy gets used to fine light textures, everything else seems to heavy. Been there. Done that.


Or maybe thats what the customer wants in their upscale homes. In Seattle light is what we spray, even apartments request the light. If you do good finish work there is no reason to double spray or kd the walls and lids. We don't do acoustic, skip trowel, or knockdown up here unless its a remodel. Been there. Done that, about 15+ years ago. Yes I own 2 sprayforce trailer mounted rigs, not a graco compact (or equivalent) and I am running at 84% of where I was 2 years ago so obviously people like my light texture and my guys good finish work


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

dawes11 said:


> Or maybe thats what the customer wants in their upscale homes. In Seattle light is what we spray, even apartments request the light. If you do good finish work there is no reason to double spray or kd the walls and lids. We don't do acoustic, skip trowel, or knockdown up here unless its a remodel. Been there. Done that, about 15+ years ago. Yes I own 2 sprayforce trailer mounted rigs, not a graco compact (or equivalent) and I am running at 84% of where I was 2 years ago so obviously people like my light texture and my guys good finish work


well, haha.....

whatever i said above, is still assuming that the finishing is of good quality. we do a standard quality level 4 finish...

in other words, im not coming from the angle of 'hey, spray heavy, double spray, or add a knockdown because my finishers are terrible" -- no, not at all.

again, UNLESS REQUESTED by the customer/builder.........i see no benefit whatsoever to spray 'light.'

i SEE where you are coming from however....meaning, there MAY be other ppl on here who spray heavy standard to cover up shoddy finishing....

but again, not my company at least....i dont even think JCardoza is implying that.

you gotta understand, i cant help but get a BIT offended by the way your post reads off the screen....

again, the way it READS off the screen, not saying ur true intention is to sound condescending, but you know how words and views can get mixed on the good ol' internet!

nonetheless, i know you mean well, and i agree with you either way.


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## dawes11

I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion and appreciate your reply. I just get tired of people on here complaining about its stupid to spray lite, its stupid to prime, and on and on. What I understand and I think you do too is that each market is different and when I got to bid jobs I know what my competition will inlcude in there bid, and I have to inlcude in mine. Up here everyone primes before texture and anything new gets sprayed real light. If I go in and whine about priming or spray it heavy then I won't get the next job. I love when people argue about how there is no money to do it the way I do, I dont get on here and tell the guy in the mid-west or east coast that there way is wrong to spray some kd and not prime first and theres no money in it that way, cause I have no clue what they get for $$ out there. I understand thats the standard in their market. Alot of the posters on here are know it alls and thats fine, just know that you don't know whats going on everywhere. And on we continue


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## silverstilts

Instead of priming before textures has anyone just sprayed mud on the board using and airless ? I would think it would decrease the setting time for knock down and could be an issue , but possibly give you a better finish and prevent possible flashing . Myself I do not prime ,( have not had flashing or tape line issues ) but if I was I think I would use or at least try this method . I would think doing it this way would create a uniform base for knock down and would think the mud would bond much better with itself rather than bonding onto paint / primer . What are your takes guys ? Cost is also cut down big time with material .


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## A+ Texture LLC

When doing remodels I'll be shooting texture and have my help knock down right behind me, but I always wanna rip the knife out of their hands cuz they're dilly dallying or just not doing it "right". I see what your getting at silver and I've contemplated that if someone wants to take the time to prime and entire house, not to mention the cost. Why not take the airless sprayer and just spray water thru it right on the seams. Not too much just enough to make it slightly damp. Then shoot texture on it immediatly. Of course you wouldn't want to over do it but it would take less time and money then priming with the same result. Other then just shooting and knocking down right away.


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## silverstilts

I agree I can not stand by when my guys dilly dally either . Sometimes i think I can spray out and do the knockdown just as fast myself and it is done my way ... I have one guy that pulls one direction across the room then pulls the outer edges out thereby showing a different pull on the texture . Of coarse I have told him umpteen times not to do it , but he says no one will notice , I told him I do and that's all that matters ... I like to pull one way the when done with the room cross perpendicular therefore you make sure not to leave any ridges or miss anything and it is fast to do... when i spray also it drive me f-n nuts if i have to stop to mix up , come on two wipe down guys and I still have to mix , christ I remember mixing and cutting while another was spraying just have to have a little bounce in your ass to do it ...


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## silverstilts

I never thought of just spraying water up there to moisten to slow down the drying process , don't really know if i would try it unless i absolutely had to . Many times when it is cool outside such as late fall thru spring I will cool down the job by opening windows so it cools down the rock it really helps . My earlier point was to spray super thin down mud on with the airless let dry overnight then text ... I would think that this would create a good base and would be a cheap way of doing it so everything would look uniform after the knock down .


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

dawes11 said:


> I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion and appreciate your reply. I just get tired of people on here complaining about its stupid to spray lite, its stupid to prime, and on and on. What I understand and I think you do too is that each market is different and when I got to bid jobs I know what my competition will inlcude in there bid, and I have to inlcude in mine. Up here everyone primes before texture and anything new gets sprayed real light. If I go in and whine about priming or spray it heavy then I won't get the next job. I love when people argue about how there is no money to do it the way I do, I dont get on here and tell the guy in the mid-west or east coast that there way is wrong to spray some kd and not prime first and theres no money in it that way, cause I have no clue what they get for $$ out there. I understand thats the standard in their market. Alot of the posters on here are know it alls and thats fine, just know that you don't know whats going on everywhere. And on we continue


completely agree...

one thing i have learned from this forum, you are exactly right, IS the differing methods from region to region....

thanks for pointing that out, because i at one point admit to being guilty and naive to different methods across the u.s.

thanks.


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## S&SDRYWALL

We prime everything before texture. Touchup that passes the eye usually shows up perfect after primer and with some lights, and its nice to spray hamilton mud onto white primer b/c its got a yellow tint to it, helps w/ consistancy, esp. on a spray/knockdown house.


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