# taping in three days



## tvo (Aug 28, 2009)

what is the least amount of coats of mud you can do and it still looks like a good job?I generally tape and corner bead one day,then coat every thing heavy on day two, day three light sand and coat again,day four light sand and coat again and day five sand it out. I have heard of it being done in three days,taping day one,coat on day two and sand on day three. Do you not have too much shrinkage with putting on one coat of mud, unless you are putting it on real heavy? I like to know how to do it in three days? thanks


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

tvo said:


> what is the least amount of coats of mud you can do and it still looks like a good job?I generally tape and corner bead one day,then coat every thing heavy on day two, day three light sand and coat again,day four light sand and coat again and day five sand it out. I have heard of it being done in three days,taping day one,coat on day two and sand on day three. Do you not have too much shrinkage with putting on one coat of mud, unless you are putting it on real heavy? I like to know how to do it in three days? thanks


 That's what you call cutting corners . Sounds like the way hacks do it no wonder they are only charging minimal on their jobs . You get what you pay for . Myself never risk quality...


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Thats what you call TAPE -BEAD-& SKIM = Alot of old-time finishers do this.

Myself, I have to put the tape, cornerbeads, and atleast 1 coat of mud on day 1. Day 2, we put 2 coat on, and possibly 3rd coat. Day 3, we finish 3rd coat before lunch-time, then sand after lunch. 

This is based on 2-3 man crew for 80-200 sheets.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Jeez......

stilts said it.

Yes you are cutting corners, as long as you realize this.

Truly offensive almost what you are asking, but i'll humor you anyways:

Yes, you can finish and complete a job how you are describing, and yes it MAY look good when its done, but months down the line it may look like crap.

First off, im a huge advocate of allowing EACH coat to dry at the minimum of 48 hrs....and in harsh, cold weather which we will be approaching soon, a minimum of 72 hours is standard at my business.

Now the tricky thing with drywall mud, is that it may APPEAR 'dry' on the surface -- but it can very well still be wet underneath, causing the finisher to think that it'll be no problem to apply the next coat. This is a rookie mistake.

If you're puttin 'wet on wet' you will be in a world of trouble months down the line. it's not GUARANTEED, but your risk of call-backs has just been heightened.

Basically, when you are performing 'wet on wet' coats -- the residual moisture from the previous coat (that was NOT visible before you rushed to put on the next coat) will CONTINUE to try to escape -- this is what will f_ck you in the end, trust me.

And like I said, everything may seem fine and dandy once you texture the job, but you might as well be on-call for the next 6 months to a year literally WAITING for that customer to call back and tell you that they are seeing visible seams and humps.

Rushing a job (cutting corners) is not worth it. Whether the customer likes it or not, you HAVE to educated them on the necessity of allowing the mud to properly and naturally dry.

And God forbid if you knowingly practice this short cut method, performing a 2 week job in 4-5 days and running with the money.

Good luck.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

joepro0000 said:


> Thats what you call TAPE -BEAD-& SKIM = Alot of old-time finishers do this.
> 
> Myself, I have to put the tape, cornerbeads, and atleast 1 coat of mud on day 1. Day 2, we put 2 coat on, and possibly 3rd coat. Day 3, we finish 3rd coat before lunch-time, then sand after lunch.
> 
> This is based on 2-3 man crew for 80-200 sheets.


 Are you using quick set or is it that dry down there that you can coat twice in one day or even coat and sand the same day ? Still can't see where the quality comes in especially if you are doing a 200 sheeter with a 3 man crew......that is insane and I don't believe it ...


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## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

Our 3 day system usually takes 1 to 2 days for bed coat, finish coat paint on third day. as a reminder we don't tape here. our fast set is paintable and for a repair job you can start painting in three hours. and yes you can apply next coat when dry to the touch, approximately 40 minutes, because it is chemical dry. Dry's cold to touch not like your fast setting mud (Hot Mud.) Ya I know there is scepticism out there but its true. I was sceptical when I first heard about it, been using it for 10 years now. Depending on situation would also use high end finish mud as third coat which would be level 4 for you guy's. Take 1 extra day. With 2-3 man crew its about 6,000 sq/ft per day hand application finished. Reason for this being 1. no Tape 
2. Butt joints 4-6" 3. Factory Joints 7-8" finished.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Are you using quick set or is it that dry down there that you can coat twice in one day or even coat and sand the same day ? Still can't see where the quality comes in especially if you are doing a 200 sheeter with a 3 man crew......that is insane and I don't believe it ... 


No we use green lid USG or black lid ProForm. Are quality is excellent, minimal touch-up after priming. We use all tools.

For taping, I will do all the angles first with the bazooka, one guy rolling, and one guy glazing and touching up the angles with a 5" knife if needed. Sometimes the bazooka person will help touching up if need to make sure the angles are coated good on the first coat. 

Then we do all joints taping em. When finished the taping, 2 start putting all beads on with staples and 6' levels. The other person works on the screws. Before we leave, once beads are done, 1 of the 2 starts running the box by himself. The other 2 start filling out the c-beads with mud/45 mixed. There are times we don't finish coating all screws, but that is nothing.

2th day, first thing we do is all joints again, and run the 12" box on the joints and cornerbeads, with 2 people whippig to make sure it smooth. This is a fast process, no more than 2 hrs. Then we work on screws, all 3 coating screws. By the end of the day, we put another coat on the angles with our mud-runner, and if dry the final coat on the joints. 

Working in 85-95 degree weather, drywall does dry, and I have never had call backs running this method. 

If you can't tape a job 100-200 sheeter in half a day, your bazooka guy is too slow, or your whippers are too slow. Sometimes when I run the bazooka, and I see my guys can't keep up, I stop and start whipping. Maybe your bazooka guy is just watching, cause alot of bazooka guys stop and watch the whippers until they get caught up, and I hate that.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

BTW - This is for a level 4 - 3 coat system, sanded with PC and 360


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

You stop taping and whip your whippers? Man, your a beast!:lol::lol::lol:


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Sorry, had to have a little fun. Just got in from sanding all day. And that ain't easy at my age. Man, I'm "WHIPPED":laughing:


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

joepro0000 said:


> Are you using quick set or is it that dry down there that you can coat twice in one day or even coat and sand the same day ? Still can't see where the quality comes in especially if you are doing a 200 sheeter with a 3 man crew......that is insane and I don't believe it ...
> 
> 
> No we use green lid USG or black lid ProForm. Are quality is excellent, minimal touch-up after priming. We use all tools.
> ...


 I always run but then flats then angles always making sure the ends of the tape is covered the butts covered by the flats and the flats covered by the angles , I guess that is the way I was taught , but sounds like you have a good system down also ... as far as getting ahead of the guys wiping down if they fall behind I just go a little faster and push them .. on occasion I feel that one good wipe down guy should stay on the guy running the tube ... and if you; have two guys wiping down there is no excuse for not keeping up.... on occasion if the guys or extremely slow I just hurry up and run the tape on and go home and let them worry about fixing up stuff that may dry before it is wiped , sound kinda cruel ? well I tell you they are good after that for quite a long time.... one time all I heard from one of my crew is how fast he was especially when it came to cutting off over-spray , needless to say he wasn't I just sprayed as usual and when I was done he was no where near done , most of the over-spray was dry before he could get to it , it was a nice summer day with the wind blowing off the lake , poor guy I sent him back to sand out the house himself ( no porter cable it was by hand ), he never did brag about his speed again . what a azz I was oh well.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Stilts,

The reason why we do angles first is so the angle head doesn't rip off the tape from the flats when passing it. Plus, angles are more of a pain than flats. We do run the flat tape to the edge of the angle, and box it out after.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

joepro0000 said:


> Stilts,
> 
> The reason why we do angles first is so the angle head doesn't rip off the tape from the flats when passing it. Plus, angles are more of a pain than flats. We do run the flat tape to the edge of the angle, and box it out after.


 I kinda figured that would be the reason , don't matter none because it still gives a quality job . Your work looks good by the pictures I like the ceilings. adds a nice touch of distinction.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

thanks, 

Don't get me wrong, there are times where a 150 sheet job has bunch of cornerbeads, and I bring an extra finisher, there we do things differrently. 2 boxes, 2 pumps runned at the same time. Each job is different, and it depends on the job, but on an average, its a 3 man crew thats gets the job done effeciently. If we bring 4 guys, we'll be cleaning the tools by 2 and ready to go home.


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

Back in the day,we would glas tape then hot mud all the flats and butts and metal (no bull nose back then),and spot nailes whith the hot mud.then run angles.after lunch,scrape it down and put a full finnish on it.Crank the heat up.Next day sand , glaze angles and touch up.spray that afternoon ,accustick and dash or knock down.No brag just fact!!! RAPE!


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

joepro0000 said:


> Are you using quick set or is it that dry down there that you can coat twice in one day or even coat and sand the same day ? Still can't see where the quality comes in especially if you are doing a 200 sheeter with a 3 man crew......that is insane and I don't believe it ...
> 
> 
> No we use green lid USG or black lid ProForm. Are quality is excellent, minimal touch-up after priming. We use all tools.
> ...


Why should a man have to kill themselves to make a living. If I was running a bazooka all day and you told me to wipe ...I would tell you to kiss my ass. 

There is still a need for unions because of this kind of thinking. And I am NOT a Union guy.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Stormy it's only business , you may think that you would not work your azz off but If I had a guy working for me with this mentality he would not last a day . I have been around for years I know what I can personally do and would not expect nothing less from people working for me . Guys with the metal attitude that they will not work hard usually aren't worth a damn and there work shows... Business owners have a responsibility to the General Contractors and should never have an attitude of it will get done when it gets done ....My advice to tapers out there if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen and go somewhere else where you can work like a snail ( such as the post office or some other government / state / county job where slowness is a prerequisite ) But you are right about the bazooka it is grueling why do the other guys work also and wipe down you may as well be working by yourself.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

The bazooka is a good work out, if your too weak or crying about it, then use a mini-bazooka or retire. I do switch up sometimes on a big job, all my wipers with the except of my wife, run the bazooka, so we switch up running it if I'm or they are tired. I would not hire some finisher with that type of attitude. Thats why alot of union finishers are job-less, because no-one wants finishers with that type of attitude.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> Stormy it's only business , you may think that you would not work your azz off but If I had a guy working for me with this mentality he would not last a day . I have been around for years I know what I can personally do and would not expect nothing less from people working for me . Guys with the metal attitude that they will not work hard usually aren't worth a damn and there work shows... Business owners have a responsibility to the General Contractors and should never have an attitude of it will get done when it gets done ....My advice to tapers out there if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen and go somewhere else where you can work like a snail ( such as the post office or some other government / state / county job where slowness is a prerequisite ) But you are right about the bazooka it is grueling why do the other guys work also and wipe down you may as well be working by yourself.


Yes! Well put.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

Enough with the hero finisher crap...... 

The question is ...what equals a full days work. 


> Thats why alot of union finishers are job-less, because no-one wants finishers with that type of attitude.



Thats why we are working for 28-30 cents a sqft. I have been in this game a long time ..... All the bravado talk makes me ill.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Enough with the hero finisher crap......
> 
> The question is ...what equals a full days work.
> 
> ...


 
Well thats good for this type of economy. The mexicans are working for 4 a bd. So if your keeping busy, god bless you, and I wish you very well.


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

Makes me tired just reading this crap


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## aschnit (Jul 8, 2009)

seems like your hanger is having problems hitting boxes and plugs.... looks that way to me anyways? is there ever really a reason to coat those things if they're routered properly?


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Is that comment to Joepro's picture? If so, I was wondering the same thing. Joe, if you ever want a 99% router cut, let us know. We'll take a road trip and teach your guys! ha


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

aschnit said:


> seems like your hanger is having problems hitting boxes and plugs.... looks that way to me anyways? is there ever really a reason to coat those things if they're routered properly?


 LOL
I was thinking the exact same thing!!

Maybe he just coats them for fun.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

To answer the original post, I'll say it can be done in three days to a reasonable quality level.

Two coats overtop of paper tape.

For me, I prefer taping with setting compound instead of using it to coat over wet tape. If you have good heat and ventilation, tape your job out in the morning and put your first coat on after the tapes have been sitting for a few hours.

It's not cutting corners. It's simply using the materials and your own capabilities to acheive a good quality finished product in a short(er) time. The rest of what's involved is knowing what steps have to be done and leaving out what isn't necessary.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*tapeing in a few days.*

i remember mixeing mud at night, so it would disolve completely. then mix it again in the morning on the job, to get a perfect consistency. and whoh to the poor sob- that would be me, that didnt get the right mix. these guys were the tail end of the plaster brother hood- that made more money on the job, then any other trade. they were unforgiving at best. then rock came and split the price in two, late forties, no resses yet in the board- still plaster in a lot of cases until late 60's. no premade mud yet, but every tradesman under the sun was trying to fabricate premixed mud and new ways to face this new market. after surviveing a hostile takeover in 87- usg was well on the way to bankruptcy- which is why that ten years of idiosy. lots of things but now you ask a brilliant question- get it done in a few days ? switch to an a-b non expanding foam. cure time is minimal, application time is faster, no weight of product, - even usg( incorperate in 1901) knows that the writeing is on the wall. hows that for a metaphor. cant do quaility by bypassing the rules at hand, those great guys were right in their blogs previous to this. just change the process----AGAIN. good luck


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> Are you using quick set or is it that dry down there that you can coat twice in one day or even coat and sand the same day ? Still can't see where the quality comes in especially if you are doing a 200 sheeter with a 3 man crew......that is insane and I don't believe it ...


 I thought he was slacking off myself Joe does a great job on the finsh work. :thumbup:,, 
The only thing I can see in his picture which I question is the coating of every outlet. I used to do that years ago. Nowdays I just don't see a need for it unless there is routers cuts .
Flat is Flat and joints will only take so much mud, after that you are just sanding off or overcoating to correct your mud application from the previous coat
A hand taper told me once long time ago,, "I can finish out a butt joint with my 6 inch knife". And he could. Then again, He could also run out a full case of tape in a days time by hand by himself.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

joepro0000 said:


> Stilts,
> 
> The reason why we do angles first is so the angle head doesn't rip off the tape from the flats when passing it. Plus, angles are more of a pain than flats. We do run the flat tape to the edge of the angle, and box it out after.


Joe , I have heard this before time and time again, and it is just not right. If you want quality production , Tape all flats , install the cornerbead ,and make sure the first coat is complete, Angles can be taped first thing next day. Painless smooth application when taping angles. Thing is, Fill coat comes first, I want the dry time as soon as I can get it.


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## FWCoxDrywallServices (May 8, 2011)

Totally agree.


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## newsmooth interiors (Jul 12, 2012)

*what i found/22 years*

I find the best way after your tape coat is to load as much mud on as well as keeping it flat.The best tool i found for this is a marshall town trowell since for the most part they are shaped with a concave slight curve.this will shrink back almost flat.finish with a curry trowell for the second and final coats(keep the second and third coats tight,and add a tenny bit of dish soap,this will make a thicker consistincy easy to manuevour,since it cuts down viscosity.for a box of mud just add a quarter (coin)size dollap and mix really well,coat in cold conditions if possible,when done krank the heat.file your trowels every 
day.Shabammm!http://www.drywalltalk.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

harvey randall said:


> i remember mixeing mud at night, so it would disolve completely. then mix it again in the morning on the job, to get a perfect consistency. and whoh to the poor sob- that would be me, that didnt get the right mix. these guys were the tail end of the plaster brother hood- that made more money on the job, then any other trade. they were unforgiving at best. then rock came and split the price in two, late forties, no resses yet in the board- still plaster in a lot of cases until late 60's. no premade mud yet, but every tradesman under the sun was trying to fabricate premixed mud and new ways to face this new market. after surviveing a hostile takeover in 87- usg was well on the way to bankruptcy- which is why that ten years of idiosy. lots of things but now you ask a brilliant question- get it done in a few days ? switch to an a-b non expanding foam. cure time is minimal, application time is faster, no weight of product, - even usg( incorperate in 1901) knows that the writeing is on the wall. hows that for a metaphor. cant do quaility by bypassing the rules at hand, those great guys were right in their blogs previous to this. just change the process----AGAIN. good luck


 We also would mix spray mud a day before to help breakdown ( no lumps/boogs):thumbsup:


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