# Fixing Imperfections on Smooth Wall



## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

How do you guys do it? What's the best way?

I had some pock marks I couldn't see/missed on a smooth wall I skim coated when sanding. HO called me back to touchup/fix after it was painted. No big deal. 

Just curious what most people would do?

I could have just used lightweight spackle and pulled them tight, but I fear even that would shrink, and on smooth wall I thought it would be best to sand it. I didn't wanna wait that long or come back the next day to sand. 

So I went with 5 Minute Easysand. I figured it would cover pretty good in one coat and I could sand it (20 minutes later. hardens in five can't sand it though). 

Should You always go with two coats for pock marks/touchups on smooth? In a perfect world, Easysand twice and third coat with lightweight AP come back the next day to sand. But is there a quickier easier way, with almost the same results?


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Cratter said:


> How do you guys do it? What's the best way?
> 
> I had some pock marks I couldn't see/missed on a smooth wall I skim coated when sanding. HO called me back to touchup/fix after it was painted. No big deal.
> 
> ...


 if the touchup requires 2 coats you always want use a topcoat of regular mud. Hotmud (if needed,wouldnt use unless absolutely needed)shouldnt be used for touchups it doesnt paint as well as sanded reg mud(liteweight or topping)also it helps to prime bigger patches before finish.:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Cratter said:


> How do you guys do it? What's the best way?
> 
> I had some pock marks I couldn't see/missed on a smooth wall I skim coated when sanding. HO called me back to touchup/fix after it was painted. No big deal.
> 
> ...


Use spackle , then you can call yourself a spackler instead of a taper:whistling2:

To put it bluntly you should be getting no poc marks in your work, so there's something wrong with your system your running. Are you a hand taper or machine, If machine, maybe what ever box your using for final coat is loading instead of skimming. Could just be the brand of mud your using too.

We walk around with a 60 lite cordless LED to check our work before we sand, but were looking for those surprise lines that can appear from no where, not poc marks. It's better to find defects before you sand, that way their not filled with sanding dust, or being found when the painter paints, A ten minute walk about with a light is cheaper than a call back:yes:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

I would have used 5 minute mud also. usually one coat is all that is required but if it takes two that is what it takes. All mud should be reprimed before finish paint is applied.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

You're going to have to skim coat the whole wall:whistling2:

Actually, I'd tell you how to fix it, but that's a trade secret:whistling2:

*Actually*, it all depends on how many pocks you have, how big the area is, etc. Will the patch flash? Will the repaint flash? etc.... 

I like to use that spackle crap sometimes, and after it dries, take a wet sponge and wipe away all of it that doesn't need to be there....right up to the edges of the blemish. Then wipe the area with a clean wet something or other until it's free of white haze, then minimally spot paint as needed. This is of course for uber high profile areas where flashing is a major concern. Or you could tear the rock off and do it over.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Come on guys ... Some of the a/p we use now takes a 3rd coat... due too fish eyes ,and pocs... lately I've been mixing usg plus 3 with my black top pro form on the skim coat ... It helps me. Just saying JUST SAYING,,,
It helps ME! I don't care what the bucket says. thin ,, or ,, heavy ,, pro form black top leaves pocs, and they have to be taken care of. It's a


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

slimpickins said:


> you're going to have to skim coat the whole wall:whistling2:
> 
> Actually, i'd tell you how to fix it, but that's a trade secret:whistling2:
> 
> ...


you said spackle!!


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

I find setting compound touchups need to be coated with premixed to achieve an acceptable sanding out. I mix 45 into my polish coat mud to fill(sometimes overfill to account for shrinkage), scrape flat when set, and skim again with polish coat. I sand them out the following day and have a final look at the job since the dust has settled. If there's anything else I touch up and flag it with some green tape for the painter.

I think a good policy is if it's being painted by a HO to say up front - there will be touchups required after priming and that it's generally the painters responsibility, if they can't tackle it themselves they can call you out for a set rate($50-100ish). That way your ass is covered for the minor stuff.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

This is good, But after prime coat only. Check with light, Hunt out imperfactions, One go with this, Sand, Then couple top coats usually fixes it.


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Use spackle , then you can call yourself a spackler instead of a taper:whistling2:
> 
> To put it bluntly you should be getting no poc marks in your work, so there's something wrong with your system your running. Are you a hand taper or machine, If machine, maybe what ever box your using for final coat is loading instead of skimming. Could just be the brand of mud your using too.
> 
> We walk around with a 60 lite cordless LED to check our work before we sand, but were looking for those surprise lines that can appear from no where, not poc marks. It's better to find defects before you sand, that way their not filled with sanding dust, or being found when the painter paints, A ten minute walk about with a light is cheaper than a call back:yes:


 

I agree, make sure you're not overcrowning the box, OP. (If you're getting pocks with a trowel, then I just don't know what to tell you.) Disagreeable box mud will run much better with dish soap, but don't let that become a licence to overbuild joints. Blowback can happen if coating over wet mud with some brands and can take a little time to boil up. Soap won't help with that.

I have to agree also that you should have picked it up while coating or during an after-coating/pre-sand inspection, and a light is helpful. Shine it along the wall, not straight at it. You won't have to do killer inspections forever but you should do it until you find the cause and solution for this.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Use spackle , then you can call yourself a spackler instead of a taper:whistling2:
> 
> To put it bluntly you should be getting no poc marks in your work, so there's something wrong with your system your running. Are you a hand taper or machine, If machine, maybe what ever box your using for final coat is loading instead of skimming. Could just be the brand of mud your using too.
> 
> We walk around with a 60 lite cordless LED to check our work before we sand, but were looking for those surprise lines that can appear from no where, not poc marks. It's better to find defects before you sand, that way their not filled with sanding dust, or being found when the painter paints, A ten minute walk about with a light is cheaper than a call back:yes:


Nothing wrong with my "system." I "skim coated" a couple walls. Meaning they had that old school plaster looking pointy sand fine texture look. He wanted it smooth. 

I handcoated it twice. put it on too think in places the second coat apparently, hence pocks. I ain't the painter HO is. Or now that I think about it the first coat probably wasn't completely dry. I said screw it and coated it again. I know not the "right" thing to do. Yes I always shine a light down the wall: 500 Watt Halogen. 

The whole thing is I didn't wanna come back the next day to fix it. Cratter wanted it down NOW. :laughing: But it appears the only acceptable way would have been to come back and sand a lightweight AP over the hot mud.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I am amused by the fact that you asked a question about how to fix something and everyone told you that you should never have let it happen in the first place. A lot of good that does you _now_ :laughing:


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> We walk around with a 60 lite cordless LED to check our work before we sand, but were looking for those surprise lines that can appear from no where, not poc marks. It's better to find defects before you sand, that way their not filled with sanding dust, or being found when the painter paints, A ten minute walk about with a light is cheaper than a call back:yes:


You've got to use a light and pay attention to the inside wall and ceiling corners to make sure they are clean and tight. (Mel's) Never Miss is a tinting agent (I hear WallTools.com is carrying it) that works well for touch up. You can also use fabric dye (in my opinion it's a pain to deal with) and Hamilton's has "Sof Top" which makes a great final coat that sands beautifully for a smooth finish. _Fyi..._


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

*Never-Miss and Never Go Back*



rhardman said:


> You've got to use a light and pay attention to the inside wall and ceiling corners to make sure they are clean and tight. (Mel's) Never Miss is a tinting agent (I hear WallTools.com is carrying it) that works well for touch up. You can also use fabric dye (in my opinion it's a pain to deal with) and Hamilton's has "Sof Top" which makes a great final coat that sands beautifully for a smooth finish. _Fyi..._


I will second the suggestion to use Never-Miss and raise you one. We use color to organize other processes, why not drywall finishing. Use it when you prep and prefill. It comes in two colors, blue and yellow that can be mixed together to make green. Use it for tracking to facilitate identifying who is doing what, when, where, and how. Use it for patching raw and painted drywall. It won't flash and it does not require priming. There are 28,800 seconds in an 8 hour day. How many seconds does it take for you to determine what was hit and what wasn't and how many times a day do you think you are looking for those spots. Use it to facilitate reading the joints while coating and sanding. It sands off lighter making it easier to see high spots (lighter areas) and low spots (darker areas). Never-Miss also offers a Level 5 joint compound additive called Ultra White Final Coat. 8 ounces of this product to a 5 gallon bucket of mud, and whether you knife on knife off, roll on knife off, or more cost effectively spray on, you've got yourself a very forgiving and cost effective Level 5 finish that doesn't need to be primed. I've found the more you use these products, the more uses you find for them.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

rhardman said:


> You've got to use a light and pay attention to the inside wall and ceiling corners to make sure they are clean and tight. (Mel's) Never Miss is a tinting agent (I hear WallTools.com is carrying it) that works well for touch up. You can also use fabric dye (in my opinion it's a pain to deal with) and Hamilton's has "Sof Top" which makes a great final coat that sands beautifully for a smooth finish. _Fyi..._


I don't get why your promoting never miss to me, when I'm stating if you do your job right in the 1st place, you won't have any touch ups:whistling2:

Plus if I really wanted tinted mud, I will use powdered chalk, Plus the turd polishers have no problem with the chalk, as long as you keep it a lite blue

Also, the only time that's done (tinting mud) is when the walls are primed, which is something else I haven't done in years ........go back and fix:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Well ,,, That's the end of this thread.
[ If you do your job right in the first place you won't have any touch ups]
I have to agree with the old sheepaphobic.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

Your kidding right? 

No touchups? 

You walkout of a perfect job: They still will call you back for touchups. Trim needs to go in, Doors, cabinets, carpet, etc. Trim guys just blow saw dust all over those walls. Looks like sh*t when you go back no matter how perfect I leave a job. It's called a punch list. I see them all the time. 

Who do they call for all those nicks in the walls? The Painter? (oh yeah thats me too)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Your a painter also? I'm so sorry.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

moore said:


> Your a painter also? I'm so sorry.


Why? I'm good at two trades. My company's called Drywall & Painting. 

Painting is gravy. No drywall mud all over my hands. No running back to refill banjo/bazooka/box. No pushing a heavy tool. :whistling2:

I can't imagine a drywaller not wanting to or being good at painting. 

HO's always say: "hey you wanna paint/prime that too." Sure. Easy Money.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Cratter said:


> Your kidding right?
> 
> No touchups?
> 
> ...


If there's no taping error, why should I go back, or should I state, there is so little taping error, that it does not warrant the taper going back.

I am responsible for all joints and fasteners, to be filled, sanded and be prepared for preparation of paint. Knicks and dings are not my responsibility. If someone wants to say they are, then I will stand around the house all day, and blow anyone away with a shot gun who puts a defect on the wall.

To be arrogant about this, I did not invest thousands of dollars into tools and equipment to do a job that involves a plastic mud pan and knife, plus a 100 watt incandescent light bulb. I don't care what amount anyone says they will pay me to go back and do touch ups. Unless it is taping error, I do not go back. And it's been well over ten years since I was sent back.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Cratter said:


> Why? I'm good at two trades. My company's called Drywall & Painting.
> 
> Painting is gravy. No drywall mud all over my hands. No running back to refill banjo/bazooka/box. No pushing a heavy tool. :whistling2:
> 
> ...


So are you just priming in the house, Or actually painting the house, there's a big difference.

Some painters have said to me, walls are about 30% of the work, the trim, doors, and other task are the majority of the work ?????????


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't have much of a problem with the trim/floor/cabinet guys here.
There good subs. Guess that's what it takes to polish a turd. good subs.
the framers,,,, Another story. I found a few flaws on 2bucks last paint job, thou, could use a little point up . :whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I don't have much of a problem with the trim/floor/cabinet guys here.
> There good subs. Guess that's what it takes to polish a turd. good subs.
> the framers,,,, Another story. I found a few flaws on 2bucks last paint job, thou, could use a little point up . :whistling2:


yeah.....sorry about that, I painted the houses rather crooked,,,,I guess I must have issues with framers too:whistling2:


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> So are you just priming in the house, Or actually painting the house, there's a big difference.
> 
> Some painters have said to me, walls are about 30% of the work, the trim, doors, and other task are the majority of the work ?????????


2buck, you are right. Myself and a helper can paint the walls and ceilings of a 1500 sq ft home in a day. It will take us up to a week to take care of the trim. Just to let everyone know, walls are the easy part of the painting. Trim includes filling the nail holes, caluking joints and caulking to the drywall, sanding and dusting off the trim. After that, I can usually start painting the trim. Spraying the exterior steel doors can also take another day. 

But like everyone says: Painting is easy, anyone can do it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Painting is easy,,, yeah,,, got one word for ya . doors!


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

moore said:


> Painting is easy,,, yeah,,, got one word for ya . doors!


DOORS. I usually set all the interior doors in the garage and spray them, if I can. If not, brush the slick finish panel doors. Roll the grain textured panel doors with a mini roller. Louvered doors are a royal pain if they can't be sprayed.

Like they say: Painting is easy, anyone can do it. Then the home owner shows up with their pad with the little wheels on it, to cut in with. The last weeks worth of newspaper taped on everything with 3/4 tape. The end result is usually disaster. 

For some reason, alot of people think that they can paint when they don't have a clue.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

M T Buckets Painting said:


> DOORS. I usually set all the interior doors in the garage and spray them, if I can. If not, brush the slick finish panel doors. Roll the grain textured panel doors with a mini roller. Louvered doors are a royal pain if they can't be sprayed.
> 
> Like they say: Painting is easy, anyone can do it. Then the home owner shows up with their pad with the little wheels on it, to cut in with. The last weeks worth of newspaper taped on everything with 3/4 tape. The end result is usually disaster.
> 
> For some reason, alot of people think that they can paint when they don't have a clue.


 
I use the marshalltown door painting brackets from all wall, set em up and hvlp spray em, Spray the frames and window frames as well, Most just brush and roll in nz, Im either ahead of them or like punishing myself.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't get why your promoting never miss to me, when I'm stating if you do your job right in the 1st place, you won't have any touch ups:whistling2:
> 
> Plus if I really wanted tinted mud, I will use powdered chalk, Plus the turd polishers have no problem with the chalk, as long as you keep it a lite blue
> 
> Also, the only time that's done (tinting mud) is when the walls are primed, which is something else I haven't done in years ........go back and fix:yes:


Well...there is the ever so small chance...as unlikely as it is...that maybe in a parallel universe...you might be better than me....


_Not!* :tt2:*_


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

rhardman said:


> Well...there is the ever so small chance...as unlikely as it is...that maybe in a parallel universe...you might be better than me....
> 
> 
> _Not!* :tt2:*_










I bet I know what your better at than me:whistling2:


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

*Arrogance and Ignorance*

Life is perfectly imperfect ... Murphy's Law is an expression of that fact. When training newbies, I always make it clear that to error is human ... learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others and pay attention to those common variation defects that seem to be inherent in the work that you do. The worst mistake of all is not catching and fixing those common variation defects. Arrogance and ignorance are usually the cause of that effect. Continuous learning and continuous improvement require that you have the honesty to see reality as it is, have the courage to challenge your assumptions and use the human gift of thinking with humility and wisdom.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Field General said:


> Life is perfectly imperfect ... Murphy's Law is an expression of that fact. When training newbies, I always make it clear that to error is human ... learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others and pay attention to those common variation defects that seem to be inherent in the work that you do. The worst mistake of all is not catching and fixing those common variation defects. Arrogance and ignorance are usually the cause of that effect. Continuous learning and continuous improvement require that you have the honesty to see reality as it is, have the courage to challenge your assumptions and use the human gift of thinking with humility and wisdom.


You mean....that I have to put effort into removing myself from the fog of misconceptions that surrounds me? I have to admit that I am not the champion of wall finishing that my ego would have me believe? And then, when I have crushed my very soul with the knowledge that I do indeed have flaws, I have to actually do something about it? I have to CHANGE? Sorry buddy...I'm content to go about my days in the vacuum of ignorance and stagnation.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

*''what's gone with that boy'' MARK TWAIN*

I think:blink:he means ,,,, Use your common sense.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> I think:blink:he means ,,,, Use your common sense.


And *I* think he means be available for personal growth:tt2: ( I had just started slurping coffee when I replied...I think I might even still have been dreaming)


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> So are you just priming in the house, Or actually painting the house, there's a big difference.
> 
> Some painters have said to me, walls are about 30% of the work, the trim, doors, and other task are the majority of the work ?????????


No not just prime. The whole shebang. Spray primer, backroll ceilings, roll two coats of color on the wall (For an almost perfect cut in line I will run my 5-1 lightly in the angle and just follow the light mark it leaves behind). 

That's about it unless the trim is going white. Use the handmasker to paper around the doors and trim before it's installed. caulk, puddy, shoot the doors in the unfinished basement...etc. You get the idea. Yes indeed the trim pack does take quite a bit of time.


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