# stapling plastic bull nose bead



## DAVE17352

Okay I have a question about stapling plastic bull nose bead. I have always either nailed or used 1" narrow crown staples or glued my plastic bull nose bead. I have also used probably 10 boxes of hydro bead. You know the stuff you spray with water and wait then stick to the corners. My finishers do not like the paper cover over the bull nose so I have gone back to the plastic bull nose. Well I am tired of the narrow crown stapler cracking the bead and just setting to deep or not enough so I am going to try some regular light weight staples with a pneumatic stapler. These staples will only be 1/2 inch maybe 5/8 at the longest. I have always felt the USG all purpose will hold the bead on in the first place but now I am getting a little paranoid about just using 1/2 inch staples. What do all of you folks think. I have tried this little gun out and it works way better than the narrow crown 1" staples for plastic bead. I hate nailing bead unless its just a stick or two. I am getting way old for this sport. I am going to post this in both hanging and finishing forums because I think it applies to both. I hope that is not against the rules.


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## DrywallerDustin

We staple with a little T50 stapler with 3/8" staples then tape them with mesh before coating, this holds them better than nails or staples, and you would have to beat it pretty damn hard to get an edge crack


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## DAVE17352

DrywallerDustin said:


> We staple with a little T50 stapler with 3/8" staples then tape them with mesh before coating, this holds them better than nails or staples, and you would have to beat it pretty damn hard to get an edge crack


 
Wow that would be a lot of work. There is no one in the Lincoln Ne that I know of that goes to that extent. We have never in 30 plus years of drywall taped all our cornerbead edges. It may indeed help but would be labor intensive it would seem. Thanks for the input!


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## chris

Spray glue and jt 21 stapels ( little hand held). I dont have a divergent gun yet:whistling2:


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## DAVE17352

chris said:


> Spray glue and jt 21 stapels ( little hand held). I dont have a divergent gun yet:whistling2:


I am thinking the glue in the all purpose is plenty, but maybe I am wrong and just want this to work as easy as possible. When we nail the bead we probably leave 18 inch gaps between nails. You have to be careful because of the way plastic bull nose will pull side to side if you set your nail to deep.


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## saskataper

I use trim tex spray adhesive for their bead, a quick shot on the corner then on the bead, wait a second for it to tack up then put it on. After a couple minutes its not coming off. TrimTex also sells a 1/2" divergent pneumatic stapler that ill use sometimes for trickier bead, but a couple cans of spray glue is a lot less to haul around than a compressor, airline, and stapler.


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## DrywallerDustin

DAVE17352 said:


> Wow that would be a lot of work. There is no one in the Lincoln Ne that I know of that goes to that extent. We have never in 30 plus years of drywall taped all our cornerbead edges. It may indeed help but would be labor intensive it would seem. Thanks for the input!



It's standard procedure in commercial work here, when you crimp on steel bead it's about all that actually attaches it, as far as I know we're the only ones that carry it through into any residential we do, 10 extra minutes to mesh all of the bead is cheap insurance to keep the damn finish carpenters from knocking the bead off of the wall. Also, I hate to haul around the compressor, air hose and stapler too


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## boco

I am surprised you guys are still using metal for commercial stuff. i have been using the mudset beads from trim-tex. Good stuff. Run through hopper then roll it on with the tool. No crimping or screws needed. Goes on fast and is more durable then metal.


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## saskataper

I was going to mention the mudset. You won't find a tougher bead and its really nice to finish


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## DrywallerDustin

boco said:


> I am surprised you guys are still using metal for commercial stuff. i have been using the mudset beads from trim-tex. Good stuff. Run through hopper then roll it on with the tool. No crimping or screws needed. Goes on fast and is more durable then metal.



It's hard enough to make money without the added labor and expense of tape on beads, I've tried many of them, and always had the problem of guys not getting them square. Steel beads go on fast, they're cheap, and keep a nice sharp corner.


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## SlimPickins

DAVE17352 said:


> Wow that would be a lot of work. There is no one in the Lincoln Ne that I know of that goes to that extent. We have never in 30 plus years of drywall taped all our cornerbead edges. It may indeed help but would be labor intensive it would seem. Thanks for the input!


Mesh is labor intensive? Since when?


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## DAVE17352

SlimPickins said:


> Mesh is labor intensive? Since when?


Versus not doing it all. Also when using mesh tape you should coat with a quick set mud and that would also add to labor.


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## DAVE17352

DrywallerDustin said:


> It's hard enough to make money without the added labor and expense of tape on beads, I've tried many of them, and always had the problem of guys not getting them square. Steel beads go on fast, they're cheap, and keep a nice sharp corner.


Agreed.


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## DrywallerDustin

DAVE17352 said:


> Versus not doing it all. Also when using mesh tape you should coat with a quick set mud and that would also add to labor.


I think mesh is less labor intensive than narrow crown staples, and it is surely less intensive than hammering nails. No quickset required, you're simply adding some reinforcement.


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## cdwoodcox

Saskataper has it right. Glue both drywall and bead. Press 0n then staple with trim-tex divergent staples. If you don't want to fork out the money for the electric staple gun they have the power assist stapler which is much cheaper then the electric and much easier to use then the t-50 mentioned above. This method is excellent for both wood and metal framing. I also use all purpose as my first 2 coats this prevents the hairline cracks that seem to come from the mud not bonding to the radius lip.


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## SlimPickins

DAVE17352 said:


> Versus not doing it all. Also when using mesh tape you should coat with a quick set mud and that would also add to labor.


You don't need to use set mud, just taping mud or mud with glue in it. 

If you're that set on saving labor just switch to Trim-Tex mud-set bead. It's that simple. It's vinyl, and you put it on with mud. Ta-Da! It sounds like just the right thing for a guy like you.:mellow:


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## DAVE17352

DrywallerDustin said:


> I think mesh is less labor intensive than narrow crown staples, and it is surely less intensive than hammering nails. No quickset required, you're simply adding some reinforcement.


Dustin do you use glue and staples and mesh tape or just staples and mesh tape. Glue is no big deal and I do use it now and then. I don't like it because it can get things a little messy. This is kind of interesting out here it is very common for people to nail plastic trim tex with no glue. We have been doing it since the trim tex came out. Stapling with a air gun is not hard and is very fast. I am trying out this new little air stapler that shoots t-50 staples it is super light and super cheap from harbour frieght. I did some practice shooting out in the shop and it works great for a tool that cost 21.00 on sale this weekend at harbour frieght. This gun got great reviews.


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## DAVE17352

SlimPickins said:


> You don't need to use set mud, just taping mud or mud with glue in it.
> 
> If you're that set on saving labor just switch to Trim-Tex mud-set bead. It's that simple. It's vinyl, and you put it on with mud. Ta-Da! It sounds like just the right thing for a guy like you.:mellow:


Well as you and Dustin said maybe mesh with all purpose will add some strength without quick set. All though I am sure you both are aware you are suppose to use quick set when using on joints. I have had finishers use mesh in garages with regular mud and have had every vertical hairline crack. Not into the mud bead not saying it isn't great stuff just a find it messy and usually these days I am hanging not finishing so I don't want to play in the mud!.


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## DrywallerDustin

DAVE17352 said:


> Dustin do you use glue and staples and mesh tape or just staples and mesh tape. Glue is no big deal and I do use it now and then. I don't like it because it can get things a little messy. This is kind of interesting out here it is very common for people to nail plastic trim tex with no glue. We have been doing it since the trim tex came out. Stapling with a air gun is not hard and is very fast. I am trying out this new little air stapler that shoots t-50 staples it is super light and super cheap from harbour frieght. I did some practice shooting out in the shop and it works great for a tool that cost 21.00 on sale this weekend at harbour frieght. This gun got great reviews.[/QUOT
> 
> Either one, I find the trim-tex glue is really quick and easy for long soffits, super 77 works well and is not quite as messy,but I waste so many cans either breaking the nozzle off or the can freezing that it's not economical for me, so I prefer the staples. I mesh no matter how it's attached


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## sdrdrywall

Why don't you guys forget the staples and mesh and glue and use no coat sticks


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## Deezal

I have worked all across B.C and Alberta, metal bead is a thing of the past. Trim tex or 77 and a quick coat of concrete full when it sets up, guaranteed to never have a problem. Also there is virtually no extra labour involved in this as its essentially your first coat anyways. it may set up a bit faster than regular mud but not nearly as fast as proset or any equivalent.


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## Deezal

Ps I have never seen mesh tape being used on a job and anyone who came onto my sites asking for it (or anyone I have ever worked for or associated with for that matter) would be laughed at and asked to leave. Not trying to start a fight here or anything so I apologize in advance if this offends. Just the way it is up here in cold Canada


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## saskataper

Your goi g to fit in just fine here deezal


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## SlimPickins

DAVE17352 said:


> Well as you and Dustin said maybe mesh with all purpose will add some strength without quick set. All though I am sure you both are aware you are suppose to use quick set when using on joints. I have had finishers use mesh in garages with regular mud and have had every vertical hairline crack. Not into the mud bead not saying it isn't great stuff just a find it messy and usually these days I am hanging not finishing so I don't want to play in the mud!.


I recently applied vinyl l-bead with spray glue to get it on there, and then taping mud with glue for a first coat. It was on there pretty damn good for a bead that's only connected on one side. Granted, I didn't beat on it, but since it was 8-1/2 ft. off the floor I don't think that's going to be an issue :laughing:


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## DrywallerDustin

sdrdrywall said:


> Why don't you guys forget the staples and mesh and glue and use no coat sticks


several reasons, first, the cost, second, it's a piss poor product, third, the cost, fourth, the additional labor time. I'm sure this will piss some no-coat fans off so I'll add that I do keep a roll around for messed up off angles and the occasional odd angled external.


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## DAVE17352

The fact is around here bead has been put on for years without glue. Also metal bead with clinchers without glue. I was talking to my finisher today about how many hairline cracks along bead edges he finishes when he goes in to do repair work. Very few and he has been doing my repair work for over 20 years. It just isn't a big issue. As I look at the trim tex I just feel as long as you use all purpose on your first coat that plastic bead just ain't going anywhere. I think I will mud one on without staples or anything, but this I mean on the outside of the bead no mud underneath just what makes contacts through the holes and let her dry and see just how easy or tough it is to get off. i bet it will be pretty tough.


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## Mr.Brightstar

DrywallerDustin said:


> several reasons, first, the cost, second, it's a piss poor product, third, the cost, fourth, the additional labor time. I'm sure this will piss some no-coat fans off so I'll add that I do keep a roll around for messed up off angles and the occasional odd angled external.


What the hell is no coat beads? A roll of the? WTF? Nevermind I will look it up for myself. Thank you


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mr.Brightstar said:


> What the hell is no coat beads? A roll of the? WTF? Nevermind I will look it up for myself. Thank you


Ok. Good idea. I will stick to my way for now.


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## Deezal

I have only ever heard of no-coat being used for "off" angles. Can't think of any other application it would remotely make sense for.


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## Deezal

DAVE17352 said:


> The fact is around here bead has been put on for years without glue. Also metal bead with clinchers without glue. I was talking to my finisher today about how many hairline cracks along bead edges he finishes when he goes in to do repair work. Very few and he has been doing my repair work for over 20 years. It just isn't a big issue. As I look at the trim tex I just feel as long as you use all purpose on your first coat that plastic bead just ain't going anywhere. I think I will mud one on without staples or anything, but this I mean on the outside of the bead no mud underneath just what makes contacts through the holes and let her dry and see just how easy or tough it is to get off. i bet it will be pretty tough.


Shouldn't have any problems with bead cracking at all, maybe a few butts but even then I have been able to durastically reduce this as well by simply prefilling all my butts with a product called con-fill. I even mix a little in my first coats over paper beads and when I install plastic like I said earlier I mix straight con-fill for my first coat. Staples or glue is definately needed though. By all means experiment just do it in your own home so you have easy access to constantly repair it.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Deezal said:


> Shouldn't have any problems with bead cracking at all, maybe a few butts but even then I have been able to durastically reduce this as well by simply prefilling all my butts with a product called con-fill. I even mix a little in my first coats over paper beads and when I install plastic like I said earlier I mix straight con-fill for my first coat. Staples or glue is definately needed though. By all means experiment just do it in your own home so you have easy access to constantly repair it.


You're right use hot mud as your base coat and you shouldn't have any issues with cracking.


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## DAVE17352

Mr.Brightstar said:


> You're right use hot mud as your base coat and you shouldn't have any issues with cracking.


Actually I always use all purpose, no hot mud on plastic of any kind on the first coat. It doesn't stick well to plastic at least thats my opinion. All purpose has plenty of glue in it.


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## saskataper

Deezal said:


> I have only ever heard of no-coat being used for "off" angles. Can't think of any other application it would remotely make sense for.


They make precut 90° and bullnose nocoat but we don't get it up here in the great white north, to expensive


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## Mr.Brightstar

DAVE17352 said:


> Actually I always use all purpose, no hot mud on plastic of any kind on the first coat. It doesn't stick well to plastic at least thats my opinion. All purpose has plenty of glue in it.


Yes it has more glue But less strength. I use Durabond . And just like the name it has 
exceptional bond And is crack resistant.


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## sdrdrywall

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Ok. Good idea. I will stick to my way for now.





Deezal said:


> I have only ever heard of no-coat being used for "off" angles. Can't think of any other application it would remotely make sense for.


They have 8' 9' @ 10' sticks in 90 and bullnose to me its easier to finish can box it easy with a 8" and 10" box and your out for production and quality finish there's no comparison


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## Deezal

DAVE17352 said:


> Actually I always use all purpose, no hot mud on plastic of any kind on the first coat. It doesn't stick well to plastic at least thats my opinion. All purpose has plenty of glue in it.


I'm not sure what you guys are referring to by hot mud but the only product I use besides boxed mud is con-fill and it's fibreglass reinforced powder you can mix by itself or in with your regular mud. Just make sure you wipe whatever you are doing tight because its worse than the quickset mud to sand.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Deezal said:


> I'm not sure what you guys are referring to by hot mud but the only product I use besides boxed mud is con-fill and it's fibreglass reinforced powder you can mix by itself or in with your regular mud. Just make sure you wipe whatever you are doing tight because its worse than the quickset mud to sand.


Hot mud = Setting type mud. Sounds like Same stuff with different ingredients.


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## Deezal

saskataper said:


> They make precut 90° and bullnose nocoat but we don't get it up here in the great white north, to expensive


Learn something new everyday


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Yes it has more glue But less strength. I use Durabond . And just like the name it has
> exceptional bond And is crack resistant.


 NO MUD IS CRACK RESISTANT!


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## Deezal

sdrdrywall said:


> They have 8' 9' @ 10' sticks in 90 and bullnose to me its easier to finish can box it easy with a 8" and 10" box and your out for production and quality finish there's no comparison


Rough idea on the cost? Nothing like this in Canada where I am anyway just the ultra flex for off angle and that runs around a 1$ per ft where I operate. Comparatively paper bead is about 35cents per ft. No coat is obviously easier to finish and a more structural product but is it worth 3x as much on the material end?


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## sdrdrywall

Deezal said:


> Rough idea on the cost? Nothing like this in Canada where I am anyway just the ultra flex for off angle and that runs around a 1$ per ft where I operate. Comparatively paper bead is about 35cents per ft. No coat is obviously easier to finish and a more structural product but is it worth 3x as much on the material end?


I'm paying about. 30 a foot for no coat sticks but I save labor and material plastic bead needs 3 coats in my opinion


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## Deezal

sdrdrywall said:


> I'm paying about. 30 a foot for no coat sticks but I save labor and material plastic bead needs 3 coats in my opinion


I wholeheartedly agree with 3 coats on plastic and paper. Also I would at very least try this on a few projects if I had access to it, just wanted to see what you guys thought. We only put 2 coats on no coat and usually just with a 5 and 6 inch knife. Wishing I had prices like you guys in the states. Bet you wish you had my labour prices though.


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> NO MUD IS CRACK RESISTANT!


The bags I buy say heigh strength crack resistant right on the bag. No mud is 100% guarantee Crack proof. But some are stronger than others.


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## sdrdrywall

Deezal said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with 3 coats on plastic and paper. Also I would at very least try this on a few projects if I had access to it, just wanted to see what you guys thought. We only put 2 coats on no coat and usually just with a 5 and 6 inch knife. Wishing I had prices like you guys in the states. Bet you wish you had my labour prices though.


I only 2 coat the no coat we roll it run the 8" box and 2nd coat with the 10" box.really wish we were still getting your prices we've been driven down really bad the last few years


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## DAVE17352

DrywallerDustin said:


> several reasons, first, the cost, second, it's a piss poor product, third, the cost, fourth, the additional labor time. I'm sure this will piss some no-coat fans off so I'll add that I do keep a roll around for messed up off angles and the occasional odd angled external.


Humm I have to agree with Dustin again. I keep a roll around for just the same reason. But thats about it.


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## chris

DrywallerDustin said:


> several reasons, first, the cost, second, it's a piss poor product, third, the cost, fourth, the additional labor time. I'm sure this will piss some no-coat fans off so I'll add that I do keep a roll around for messed up off angles and the occasional odd angled external.


 Thats the same way I felt about 3 years ago:whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Hot mud = Setting type mud. Sounds like Same stuff with different ingredients.


Con-fil is a setting mud, true.......but it doesn't count as hot mud. It's a different beast, in it's own class. Here it's called Ultra-Fill and you can find all kinds of creative uses for it. I get paid to do interesting fun things with it on a regular basis:thumbsup:


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