# First time box setup help needed ?



## anton609

hey community,

i've just purchased my first set of boxes (tapeTech easyClean 10" & 12") and have no experience using them (or boxes).

i've used them for a week now, fresh out of the box, but am having trouble getting consistent results. The fist day, i 2nd coated with the 10" without adjusting the factory setting of the blade, and to get full cover had to run over the recessed joints more than once, and it left hard edges that i had to go over with a paddle.

an experienced box user told me that i had to adjust the blade against a flat wall to get it "flat", but was rather vague about which setting to do this at (1-5 crown settings).

on day 3 i final coated with the 12" which i had adjusted the blade to be flat on setting 2, and i got better, albeit mixed results depending on the walls in question. I still had to alternate settings between walls to get an even cover, and feather my edges by hand.

can anyone point me to some instructional material that might help (me set up my boxes properly & use them - with attention given to what to look for when application is being done properly) , or summarize what i need to do....as i have scoured the internet and youTube for instruction and have not come up with anything other than stuff on bazooka's, tapeboxes, and mudrunners.

any help would be appreciated.


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

Hello Anton, welcome to the forum,

You don't want to set your blade flat you want to have an arc in it so that your mud tapers off on its edges.

What you need to do is place the box "blade down as if you were running it" and "0 setting on the dial" onto a table or flat plate and check to see what it looks like it should have and even arc from one end of the blade to the other. If there isn't you need to put an arc into it, you can do this by putting your thumbs on the lip of the rollface "where the door stops are" and pulling down on the blade bar with your fingers to put an arc into it. You can also take the box and run the blade on setting 0 up and down length wise on a piece of wood to put the arc into it. 

The problem you are having is probably because both edges of the blade aren't touching the wall when you're running it, this should solve that. If there is an even arc in the blade already the blade bar could be "loose in the shoes" causing the blade to float on the wall. Check to see if you can move the Blade bar on each end that it is held by the shoes, if there is movement you need to tighten your shoes up so that there is no movement. Using a set of pliers pull the upper and lower shoes together to close them onto the blade bar, don't close them too hard though because you don't want to bend the lip of the upper shoe upwards. 

I hope this helps,


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

Most boxes are the same, for your 10" coat use a 2-3 setting, for you 12" use a 4-5 setting. The dial setting is for the amount of mud that you want released not how the mud goes on the wall.

This is our operations manual, it might help:
http://www.columbiatools.com/media/pdf/manual.pdf


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## 2buckcanuck

While coating by hand, you tend to put more mud on. One part of using boxes is realizing that they run tighter than a hand trowel so u have to work your system accordingly.They look like their not putting enough mud on but they are.So as columbia says,try running your 10" at #3(middle ground#)then your 12" at # 4,you half to get use to idea less mud gets used. boxes run true with no waves or ripples.
bottom line 10" loads,12" skims (tight)


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## proficient Mudder

Hello Anton, There is not much to add to the very professional help you have already recieved from the other 2 guys. The arc in the center of the blade, dial in numbers as already stated and keeping your joint compound at the right thickness and not to thin.
if your blade is straight across, the mud will be pushed out the sides of the box instead of filling under it, which the arc allows. I personally also use my 10" box on butt joints with the setting at zero to allow maximum coverage.

Bill


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## DSJOHN

Until you get used to it,keep your hawk and trowel[or knife] close by and wipe it down or clean it and start again,it isnt rocket science,but until you get the learning curve down there is a lot of swearing going on!!!


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## Scott_w

DSJOHN said:


> Until you get used to it,keep your hawk and trowel[or knife] close by and wipe it down or clean it and start again,it isnt rocket science,but until you get the learning curve down there is a lot of swearing going on!!!


This was EXACTLY me when I tried mine a few weeks ago.:blink: By the end of the job I did much better. The biggest thing is getting used to the mud going on as said earlier, and learning to use the brake.

Good luck... scott


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## cazna

DSJOHN said:


> Until you get used to it,keep your hawk and trowel[or knife] close by and wipe it down or clean it and start again,it isnt rocket science,but until you get the learning curve down there is a lot of swearing going on!!!


 
:thumbup: Great advice john, thats what i had to do too.

Depends on your mud opasity as well, or in other words coverage and how much you can see through it, I have been using usg total which really is a pig of a mud for for boxing as in its see through, it does flow ok but as a hand finisher you tend to bury everything so you cant see through it, well boxes are not like that at all, its much thinner and if its see trough mud then you get the impression that its just not working, so you back the dial off to get some cover but your really putting a huge arse crown and big ridges on the join.

I dont tend to agree on the box setting that you all are suggesting, but hey im the first one to say you all have more experance and know more than me but those settings are to tight for me, i have been using the 7 on about 3 as its just a fill and i dont want much crown yet, then the 10 on 3 or 2, mabye a few passes depending on how it looks and what the high shoulders are doing to me, then with the 12 its a quick coat on 3, let it set up for 10mins then a pass both ways on 2, this can still look as though its to thin and see through and the grey high shoulder lines are still showing in some areas bit let it dry and then you see its enough, this is giving me a good cover and yes its still quite flat and not crowned up to much with nice feathered edges as well. It depends on manys things as to how your boxes will behave so maybe this might help, :thumbsup:


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## tricounty dwall

DSJOHN said:


> Until you get used to it,keep your hawk and trowel[or knife] close by and wipe it down or clean it and start again,it isnt rocket science,but until you get the learning curve down there is a lot of swearing going on!!!


Very true. I did the same thing. Actually about 7 years ago i bought a 10 and 12 and used them on a house. I caught hell, swore, cursed and everything else us drywallers do. So i locked them up for years. And never knew what i had till i finally got em out years later and had more patience. Point is, dont give up. They will whoop u at first but as soon as u get the hang of them. Its better than sliced bread


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## Capt-sheetrock

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> Hello Anton, welcome to the forum,
> 
> You don't want to set your blade flat you want to have an arc in it so that your mud tapers off on its edges.
> 
> What you need to do is place the box "blade down as if you were running it" and "0 setting on the dial" onto a table or flat plate and check to see what it looks like it should have and even arc from one end of the blade to the other. If there isn't you need to put an arc into it, you can do this by putting your thumbs on the lip of the rollface "where the door stops are" and pulling down on the blade bar with your fingers to put an arc into it. You can also take the box and run the blade on setting 0 up and down length wise on a piece of wood to put the arc into it.
> 
> The problem you are having is probably because both edges of the blade aren't touching the wall when you're running it, this should solve that. If there is an even arc in the blade already the blade bar could be "loose in the shoes" causing the blade to float on the wall. Check to see if you can move the Blade bar on each end that it is held by the shoes, if there is movement you need to tighten your shoes up so that there is no movement. Using a set of pliers pull the upper and lower shoes together to close them onto the blade bar, don't close them too hard though because you don't want to bend the lip of the upper shoe upwards.
> 
> I hope this helps,


You guys are way too far ahead of us to make much sense sometimes,,,,LOL

Here's the deal,, the "brass" part of the box (that holds the blade) needs to be "arc'd". To do this, take your thumb and "bend" it upwards. PUSH on it. 

If your leaveing a hard "edge" your blade is TOO high above your shoe, it should be just abit (finger-nail) higher.

The "settings" on the box don't mean nothing till you get those two things in line.

I believe that is what the COL guys were trying to say, just didn't know how.


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

pretty much


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## tricounty dwall

Hey go to the post called columbia facebook page on here and look at page 4 and 5. This was a topic on the blade i asked this week to. Theres a lot of good info there and it explains it all about the blade:thumbup:


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## Mudstar

anton609 said:


> hey community,
> 
> i've just purchased my first set of boxes (tapeTech easyClean 10" & 12") and have no experience using them (or boxes).
> 
> i've used them for a week now, fresh out of the box, but am having trouble getting consistent results. The fist day, i 2nd coated with the 10" without adjusting the factory setting of the blade, and to get full cover had to run over the recessed joints more than once, and it left hard edges that i had to go over with a paddle.
> 
> an experienced box user told me that i had to adjust the blade against a flat wall to get it "flat", but was rather vague about which setting to do this at (1-5 crown settings).
> 
> on day 3 i final coated with the 12" which i had adjusted the blade to be flat on setting 2, and i got better, albeit mixed results depending on the walls in question. I still had to alternate settings between walls to get an even cover, and feather my edges by hand.
> 
> can anyone point me to some instructional material that might help (me set up my boxes properly & use them - with attention given to what to look for when application is being done properly) , or summarize what i need to do....as i have scoured the internet and youTube for instruction and have not come up with anything other than stuff on bazooka's, tapeboxes, and mudrunners.
> 
> any help would be appreciated.


What might be happening is your not leaning on the box enough and simply running the box over the wall will leave a hard edge because you probably are slightly riding on the excess mud beneath the box making the box float just a bit, not really knowing that you are not pushing the mud onto the wall hard enough but not to hard. 

I suggest to lean more into it next time and like 2buck says the box will leave less but will be flatter then the hand application method.


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## Kiwiman

What I found invaluable was someone else looking over your box's to make sure they are set up right and offering hands on tips and techniques, it saves a huge amount of trial and error, we are lucky here that most of the local competition will help each other out, we send our excess work to each other and help with tool and product problems, if I hadn't been shown a few pointers at the beginning I probably wouldn't be running box's today...Just don't expect every join to be perfect and keep the hawk and knife handy to fix things up.


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## anton609

thanx for all the replies & help....i'm sure between all this & some experience i should sort it out.


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## Scott_w

Mudstar said:


> What might be happening is your not leaning on the box enough and simply running the box over the wall will leave a hard edge because you probably are slightly riding on the excess mud beneath the box making the box float just a bit, not really knowing that you are not pushing the mud onto the wall hard enough but not to hard.
> 
> I suggest to lean more into it next time and like 2buck says the box will leave less but will be flatter then the hand application method.


Great advice, that's actually one of the problems I had. I wasn't leaning into it. I also found that I was running the mud too thick at one point.

scott


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## Capt-sheetrock

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> Hello Anton, welcome to the forum,
> Check to see if you can move the Blade bar on each end that it is held by the shoes, if there is movement you need to tighten your shoes up so that there is no movement.
> I hope this helps,


I have taken on the dubious posistion of translateing for COL,,,LOL.

Not really, they really know their stuff, and I just act like I do.

One thing to remember when you are adjusting blades and shoes, is that the blade "floats". You MUST hold the blade down hard with your fingers when you are checking the "override" of the blade to the shoe. If you don't, you are not getting the correct adjustment.


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## moore

Lord!!! Took forever to find this thread...


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## Scott_w

I know this thread is old, but since Moore brought it up again, I have a question about box setup.

I used to run a set of Tapetech boxes (bought used) that ran like a dream right away, very small learning curve. After they were stolen I got a good deal on a brand new set of Northstar (8-10) and a used 12".

The new ones seem very hard to run and put out way to much mud, even when set at a low number. Did anyone every do a box setup video?

I hardly use them now, but would be nice to figure it out so they are ready to go.

thanks...scott
​


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## PrecisionTaping

Scott_w said:


> I know this thread is old, but since Moore brought it up again, I have a question about box setup.
> 
> I used to run a set of Tapetech boxes (bought used) that ran like a dream right away, very small learning curve. After they were stolen I got a good deal on a brand new set of Northstar (8-10) and a used 12".
> 
> The new ones seem very hard to run and put out way to much mud, even when set at a low number. Did anyone every do a box setup video?
> 
> I hardly use them now, but would be nice to figure it out so they are ready to go.
> 
> thanks...scott
> ​


Maybe I'll do a box setup video for everyone.


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## machinemud

PT you have so much video to do , you should start a filming crew !!! I think that a video on setting the boxes woukd be welcome for a lot of drywaller here with the quality of your video !!


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## PrecisionTaping

machinemud said:


> PT you have so much video to do , you should start a filming crew !!! I think that a video on setting the boxes woukd be welcome for a lot of drywaller here with the quality of your video !!


Hahaha! I do have a sh!t load of videos to do!
Just finished the Delko Internal Applicator video. I'll upload that for you guys soon. oh! And I am my film crew! Director/Producer/Actor/Editor. I have one camera man! :yes:

Okay! Box video it is!
What would you guys like to see in a box video!? Break it down for me!
Get right into details. What does everyone want to see?
Tell me and i'll make it.


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha! I do have a sh!t load of videos to do!
> Just finished the Delko Internal Applicator video. I'll upload that for you guys soon. oh! And I am my film crew! Director/Producer/Actor/Editor. I have one camera man! :yes:
> 
> Okay! Box video it is!
> What would you guys like to see in a box video!? Break it down for me!
> Get right into details. What does everyone want to see?
> Tell me and i'll make it.


Well, they are straight forward, but I guess for newbs.....

How to install the blades
what the shoes are, and why you should not run on them
how on a flat surface a penny should slide under the middle of blade (wide open)
How to put more of a crown on them using a 2x4
proper blade adjustment.
Running with no springs, one spring or both springs.... pro's and con's
running them on the wheels or not
explain all the different sized boxes, 
why to keep dial in off position when not in use
explain the different type handles

That's 15 pieces of advice at 2bucks a piece....... you owe me 30bucks PT:whistling2:


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## A smooth finish

So pt do you use a 7 before the 10 and then a 12 or do you do 10 10 12


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Well, they are straight forward, but I guess for newbs.....
> 
> How to install the blades
> what the shoes are, and why you should not run on them
> how on a flat surface a penny should slide under the middle of blade (wide open)
> How to put more of a crown on them using a 2x4
> proper blade adjustment.
> Running with no springs, one spring or both springs.... pro's and con's
> running them on the wheels or not
> explain all the different sized boxes,
> why to keep dial in off position when not in use
> explain the different type handles
> 
> That's 15 pieces of advice at 2bucks a piece....... you owe me 30bucks PT:whistling2:


Okay, well half the stuff you mentioned I don't even know how to do myself. lol! I know they are simple but I've never had to do them. 
How to put more of a crown using a 2x4? Never done that.
I'll have to give you a call before I start this video 2buck. You can run a few tips by me.



A smooth finish said:


> So pt do you use a 7 before the 10 and then a 12 or do you do 10 10 12


Nope. I only do 2 coats man. I've never had to do more.
I tape, run my 10", then run my 12". Done. I don't understand why some people run a 7" or an 8" or run their 10" twice.
I only pass my boxes twice. And I get a perfect job!

If you watch the video in my signature "How to run a flat box", that's all I do. Next day, pass the 12".


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Okay, well half the stuff you mentioned I don't even know how to do myself. lol! I know they are simple but I've never had to do them.
> How to put more of a crown using a 2x4? Never done that.
> I'll have to give you a call before I start this video 2buck. You can run a few tips by me


Holy:blink:, consulting by phone, I shall half to check what my fee is for that

I could love doing business with you, I said in my previous post, 2bucks a suggestion, and there were 15 for 30 bucks, but was there 15 suggestions (10):whistling2:

Any time you need some advice


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Holy:blink:, consulting by phone, I shall half to check what my fee is for that
> 
> I could love doing business with you, I said in my previous post, 2bucks a suggestion, and there were 15 for 30 bucks, but was there 15 suggestions (10):whistling2:
> 
> Any time you need some advice


Hahaha! 
Cheque's on it's way!


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## Newagestucco

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!
> Cheque's on it's way!
> View attachment 4025


That's funny


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## Scott_w

2buckcanuck said:


> Well, they are straight forward, but I guess for newbs.....
> 
> How to install the blades
> what the shoes are, and why you should not run on them
> how on a flat surface a penny should slide under the middle of blade (wide open)
> How to put more of a crown on them using a 2x4
> proper blade adjustment.
> Running with no springs, one spring or both springs.... pro's and con's
> running them on the wheels or not
> explain all the different sized boxes,
> why to keep dial in off position when not in use
> explain the different type handles
> 
> That's 15 pieces of advice at 2bucks a piece....... you owe me 30bucks PT:whistling2:


What 2buck said. :yes: But... anything you have time for! :thumbup:

scott


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## PrecisionTaping

Scott_w said:


> What 2buck said. :yes: But... anything you have time for! :thumbup:
> 
> scott


I'll have to get you guys to write me a script


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> I'll have to get you guys to write me a script


sure thing









As soon as your 1st cheque clears :whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> sure thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as your 1st cheque clears :whistling2:


If it doesn't clear it's because I had to buy another gallon of Venetian plaster for somebody's daughter in law :whistling2:


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## Bazooka-Joe

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> Most boxes are the same, for your 10" coat use a 2-3 setting, for you 12" use a 4-5 setting. The dial setting is for the amount of mud that you want released not how the mud goes on the wall.
> 
> This is our operations manual, it might help:
> http://www.columbiatools.com/media/pdf/manual.pdf


so Aaron why did you fellas switch from the blade holder before to brass

I remember the days of the old blade holder slide a penny through the middle and you had a nice controllable curve or arc as you say, so why brass?:blink:


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## Bazooka-Joe

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha!
> Cheque's on it's way!
> View attachment 4025


that's 30 Pesos:jester:


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Maybe I'll do a box setup video for everyone.


Hey, it's been almost a year, and no video:furious:

And wheres my 30 bucks you owe me:furious: your cheque never arrived in the mail


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## wrenchmonkey4

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> Hello Anton, welcome to the forum,
> 
> You don't want to set your blade flat you want to have an arc in it so that your mud tapers off on its edges.
> 
> What you need to do is place the box "blade down as if you were running it" and "0 setting on the dial" onto a table or flat plate and check to see what it looks like it should have and even arc from one end of the blade to the other. If there isn't you need to put an arc into it, you can do this by putting your thumbs on the lip of the rollface "where the door stops are" and pulling down on the blade bar with your fingers to put an arc into it. You can also take the box and run the blade on setting 0 up and down length wise on a piece of wood to put the arc into it.
> 
> The problem you are having is probably because both edges of the blade aren't touching the wall when you're running it, this should solve that. If there is an even arc in the blade already the blade bar could be "loose in the shoes" causing the blade to float on the wall. Check to see if you can move the Blade bar on each end that it is held by the shoes, if there is movement you need to tighten your shoes up so that there is no movement. Using a set of pliers pull the upper and lower shoes together to close them onto the blade bar, don't close them too hard though because you don't want to bend the lip of the upper shoe upwards.
> 
> I hope this helps,


Aarons the man -if you can understand the lingo, capt. Sheetrock dumbed it down for ya...
Really impressed how Columbia is doing troubleshooting on a tapetech product 
all advice on tools is hard to understand without pics... luckily im in my shop and got a few handy, I will post back in a bit :thumbsup:


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## wrenchmonkey4

wrenchmonkey4 said:


> Aarons the man -if you can understand the lingo, capt. Sheetrock dumbed it down for ya...
> Really impressed how Columbia is doing troubleshooting on a tapetech product
> all advice on tools is hard to understand without pics... luckily im in my shop and got a few handy, I will post back in a bit :thumbsup:


Arching the blade holder




























This last pic is how I give the new blade a "s curve" to keep it held in the holder


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## wrenchmonkey4

2buckcanuck said:


> Well, they are straight forward, but I guess for newbs.....
> 
> How to install the blades
> what the shoes are, and why you should not run on them
> how on a flat surface a penny should slide under the middle of blade (wide open)
> How to put more of a crown on them using a 2x4
> proper blade adjustment.
> Running with no springs, one spring or both springs.... pro's and con's
> running them on the wheels or not
> explain all the different sized boxes,
> why to keep dial in off position when not in use
> explain the different type handles
> 
> That's 15 pieces of advice at 2bucks a piece....... you owe me 30bucks PT:whistling2:


Proper blade height above shoe/skid (same goes for angle head blades)
I want 2bucks.....
No sheep accepted


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## Mudshark

Good post wrenchmonkey, we could all learn a lot from you. But whats with that monster watch from the 70's


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## wrenchmonkey4

Mudshark said:


> http://yoursmiles.org/t-forum.php
> 
> Good post wrenchmonkey, we could all learn a lot from you. But whats with that monster watch from the 70's


What!?!? That's in style... Should reach the east coast and Canada in about a year....
By then us in Cali will have moved onto something else


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## 06mach

PrecisionTaping said:


> Maybe I'll do a box setup video for everyone.


Yes please, lol


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