# Question on Mesh/Fiber tape



## OnPoint (Apr 29, 2011)

I usually use paper tape for all of my jobs. Once in awhile on a patch I will use Mesh/fiber tape (never on corners of course)..My question is: What does everyone think about using Mush/Fiber tape? Good/Bad?..any faults in using this over paper tape on joints?

Was going to do a repair in a pre-existing textured ceiling where the the tape is coming off on the joints, usually I would use 20 minute and retape with paper, wanted to use the mesh tape as would be faster..any suggestions/comments on this?

Appreciate all of the input! Thanks.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Oh dear lord, here we go again:blink::blink::blink::furious:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh dear lord, here we go again:blink::blink::blink::furious:


 
OH GOD NOOOOO.

Fibafuse, use fibafuse, Forget the mesh.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Fi-ba-fuuuuuse :yes:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

I think everyone on here agrees Mesh would be the way to go.:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I like the yellow colored mesh .
It's real pretty!:whistling2:


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

If you use the mesh, you will have more lineal footage of crack than Oprah's arse.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

OnPoint said:


> I usually use paper tape for all of my jobs. Once in awhile on a patch I will use Mesh/fiber tape (never on corners of course)..My question is: What does everyone think about using Mush/Fiber tape? Good/Bad?..any faults in using this over paper tape on joints?
> 
> Was going to do a repair in a pre-existing textured ceiling where the the tape is coming off on the joints, usually I would use 20 minute and retape with paper, wanted to use the mesh tape as would be faster..any suggestions/comments on this?
> 
> Appreciate all of the input! Thanks.


Use mesh, skip the prefill and work the hot mud behind the mesh as well as over the top. You'll create an insanely strong bond....one solid layer of goodness. As insurance, you can add a little PVA to your hutmud for extra stickiness....

Oh wait, I forgot I was on Drywall Talk. 

Mesh sucks, blah blah and some other stuff about cracks and real tapers and how my opinion is reality. Paper tape rules. Mesh is for ****-ners.:blink:


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## TonyM (Aug 4, 2008)

Real tapers don't use tape of any kind.
There is actually a discussion in progress to officially rename tapers just 'ers'


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## OnPoint (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, apparently everyone's a comedian..Just wondered if anyone has ever had problems with Mesh tape, or why they think it will crack? What justifies this? I would NOT coat over it with topping and only use durabond for the bed coat..I am all for paper taping, but when it comes to repairs in a textured ceiling and I am trying to get in and out to make some money and do a nice job, then I would rather take the faster route, IF there were no quality issues.. Yeah I hear from you guys saying its a homeowner special to use mesh, But if It will shave a few hours off a repair and turn out the same, why not? Just figured would post on here since there are others in the field and could get others take on it.. Ps. I am all for jokes, if they are at least humorous...thanks anyway.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

OnPoint said:


> Well, apparently everyone's a comedian..Just wondered if anyone has ever had problems with Mesh tape, or why they think it will crack? What justifies this? I would NOT coat over it with topping and only use durabond for the bed coat..I am all for paper taping, but when it comes to repairs in a textured ceiling and I am trying to get in and out to make some money and do a nice job, then I would rather take the faster route, IF there were no quality issues.. Yeah I hear from you guys saying its a homeowner special to use mesh, But if It will shave a few hours off a repair and turn out the same, why not? Just figured would post on here since there are others in the field and could get others take on it.. Ps. I am all for jokes, if they are at least humorous...thanks anyway.


Go back and read all the previous mesh tape vs. paper tape posts and you will find almost all of these comments pretty funny. It isn't that people don't want to answer your question it is just that no one wants to have this debate again. search mesh vs paper their is a couple different threads with all the information (probably more) than you want.:thumbsup:


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

Mesh gets a bad name cause people who use it (homeowners) don't first coat it with durabond causing it to crack. 

You will be fine using mesh tape with durabond for a patch.

If your worried use this

http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaTape/ExtraStrength/SellSheets/English

60% stronger mesh tape.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

OnPoint said:


> Well, apparently everyone's a comedian..Just wondered if anyone has ever had problems with Mesh tape, or why they think it will crack? What justifies this? I would NOT coat over it with topping and only use durabond for the bed coat..I am all for paper taping, but when it comes to repairs in a textured ceiling and I am trying to get in and out to make some money and do a nice job, then I would rather take the faster route, IF there were no quality issues.. Yeah I hear from you guys saying its a homeowner special to use mesh, But if It will shave a few hours off a repair and turn out the same, why not? Just figured would post on here since there are others in the field and could get others take on it.. Ps. I am all for jokes, if they are at least humorous...thanks anyway.


If you are going to use mesh then I would suggest sheetrock brand because it's thicker and stronger than other brands, the setting compound used must be hard like durabond and not the likes of easysand, but myself I would use Fibafuse, it's not affected by moisture like paper so you can get several coats on while wet and it won't end up sucking back in after it's painted, like everything though it has to be bone dry before it's painted.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

OnPoint said:


> Well, apparently everyone's a comedian..Just wondered if anyone has ever had problems with Mesh tape, or why they think it will crack? What justifies this? I would NOT coat over it with topping and only use durabond for the bed coat..I am all for paper taping, but when it comes to repairs in a textured ceiling and I am trying to get in and out to make some money and do a nice job, then I would rather take the faster route, IF there were no quality issues.. Yeah I hear from you guys saying its a homeowner special to use mesh, But if It will shave a few hours off a repair and turn out the same, why not? Just figured would post on here since there are others in the field and could get others take on it.. Ps. I am all for jokes, if they are at least humorous...thanks anyway.


The first part of my post was informational, the second part was facetious. I use hot mud and mesh a LOT, and I have never had a call-back for a crack. The one time I thought I might be in trouble with a crack turned out to be water leaking from inside the shower. I don't know whether the adhesive makes a lot of difference, but I use it, and it works. Go....make money. Save trips. Have faith!


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

been using mesh & easy sand for too many yrs to remember,still waiting for 1 seem to crack.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Final touch drywall said:


> been using mesh & easy sand for too many yrs to remember,still waiting for 1 seem to crack.


Just look in the mirror next time you bend over


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Kiwiman said:


> Fi-ba-fuuuuuse :yes:


I like FibaFuse - great for patching as well, I find - but one needs to be a bit careful. I was told today that one of the company's tapers had wiped down some FibaFused butt joints a little too tight, and damaged the Fiba enough that they cracked. My trainee may have done the same thing on at least part of one butt joint, on a job she was sent to do - I gave her a small role for faster patching, and she used it to tape out a small job with. I'll know if there's more of it when I do check out on it tomorrow.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

JustMe said:


> I like FibaFuse - great for patching as well, I find - but one needs to be a bit careful. I was told today that one of the company's tapers had wiped down some FibaFused butt joints a little too tight, and damaged the Fiba enough that they cracked. My trainee may have done the same thing on at least part of one butt joint, on a job she was sent to do - I gave her a small role for faster patching, and she used it to tape out a small job with. I'll know if there's more of it when I do check out on it tomorrow.


True, I know what you mean, I've never had a "butt crack" (I thank you ) with fuse, but if the muds a bit thick you need more pressure which can lift or tear at the fibre's, especially if one side of the board is a fraction higher.
Runny mud and only enough pressure to bed the tape, then maybe a light sand if there's any fibre's sticking up.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Final touch drywall said:


> been using mesh & easy sand for too many yrs to remember,still waiting for 1 seem to crack.


I should clarify, when I said earlier to avoid using softer muds like easysand I'm not speaking from experience, I just presume if Mesh doesn't like soft muds that easysand would be one of them, but if you aren't getting any problems then I wouldn't change :thumbsup:.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Just look in the mirror next time you bend over


Funny story...I meshed and hot-mudded my @$$ to see if it would still crack.....now I just sh!t out of my mouth :blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> I should clarify, when I said earlier to avoid using softer muds like easysand I'm not speaking from experience, I just presume if Mesh doesn't like soft muds that easysand would be one of them, but if you aren't getting any problems then I wouldn't change :thumbsup:.


I have used tons of easy sand . It's a good hot mud ,,but dura bond is a great hot mud I'd say the true hot mud . I don't use mesh ,,but I can see how taping with mesh and dura bond works so well together for some.
But like the kiwiman and cazna afraid to use a/p for taping seams @butts 
[same here] I'm afraid to use the mesh because my system has worked well for so long I'm afraid to change. Slim made a GREAT point ''work the hot mud behind the mesh as well as over the top'' The stick on mesh does not work[ mo ]I have seen this first hand ,,and made good money fixing it..more times Than I can count .even with hot mud .It bubbles up like a blister . Apply the mud place the tape then wipe down no matter what tape you use. btw I tape all my [email protected] with hot mud @paper. Not saying It's the right way .just my way .my avatar will tell you all ya need to know about my way of taping...


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Funny story...I meshed and hot-mudded my @$$ to see if it would still crack.....now I just sh!t out of my mouth :blink:


yes, and from your mouth it goes to your fingers and lands on Drywall talk:jester:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

SlimPickins said:


> Funny story...I meshed and hot-mudded my @$$ to see if it would still crack.....now I just sh!t out of my mouth :blink:


 So mesh does work.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> So mesh does work.


Yessir, as you can all bear witness.....the proof is in the pudding!


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## OnPoint (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks guys, Didint mean to come off as a ****, just always helpful to get others opinions on the matter, especially if they have hard evidence why this would compromise the quality of a job, and needed a quick response. Like I said, in it to make money, but if do a poor quality job know I will be compromising good "word of mouth" advertising. I am all for something that can save some time and a trip or two, without effecting the quality. I do not know what the fiberfuse is, unless its just a brand name? Like I said, I always go for paper unless doing patch work and find the Mesh to save me a lot of time, if used right. Couldnt see how or why it would crack if bed coated with durabond. Why I asked..thanks again!


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## OnPoint (Apr 29, 2011)

cdwoodcox said:


> Go back and read all the previous mesh tape vs. paper tape posts and you will find almost all of these comments pretty funny. It isn't that people don't want to answer your question it is just that no one wants to have this debate again. search mesh vs paper their is a couple different threads with all the information (probably more) than you want.:thumbsup:


 
Sorry man, guess I should have searched more. Just figured would get a more direct response if asked my own question. And yeah, some are funny, just get tired of everyone being an expert with no justification or hard evidence on why they would or wouldnt do something..everyone has "heard" or been taught something will or will not work, but have no reasons for why it will or will not work...that is what I think I was looking for, an example or past experience for the reasons to not use it..or an explanation of why it would "crack" etc...I appreciate your time.


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

please...
You sound like a beginner, trying to get the real answer to a real question,
but,
there is no real answer that doesn't have qualifiers before the statement.
So,
if the question is; "Can I use mesh tape to save time?"
answer; Yes absolutely
question; "will it crack?"
answer; how long you been doing this?


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

OnPoint said:


> Sorry man, guess I should have searched more. Just figured would get a more direct response if asked my own question. And yeah, some are funny, just get tired of everyone being an expert with no justification or *hard evidence* on why they would or wouldnt do something..everyone has "heard" or been taught something will or will not work, but have no reasons for why it will or will not work...that is what I think I was looking for, an example or past experience for the reasons to not use it..or an explanation of why it would "crack" etc...I appreciate your time.


It's drywall. Not a science project. Everyone learns from experience. 

Will it crack? Everything will crack with the right conditions paper or mesh. Even paper tape can't hold a house together.

You have a standard patch. You cut it back to the studs or add a backer, sheetrock, mesh, and hot mud. No it will not crack. What more of an answer do you want?

Here is the order of strength: mesh, paper tape, fibafuse. 

http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaFuse/FibaFuseDrywallTape



> Open fiber design – Fuses with compound to create stronger joints compared to paper tape


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Cratter said:


> It's drywall. Not a science project. Everyone learns from experience.
> 
> Will it crack? Everything will crack with the right conditions paper or mesh. Even paper tape can't hold a house together.
> 
> ...


Stick around for a few more years,,,,,




Ohh,,, you are SO wrong grasshopper !!!!!


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Stick around for a few more years,,,,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just rewrite what SlimPickins says:boxing:. :tongue:

Actually I just use spackle. It says right on the package "wont shrink or crack." :laughing:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Cratter said:


> I just rewrite what SlimPickins says:boxing:. :tongue:
> 
> Actually I just use spackle. It says right on the package "wont shrink or crack." :laughing:


That's like telling your girlfriend "trust me,, it WON'T SHRINK"


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Order of strength ..PAPER..PAPER..PAPER..


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Order of strength ..PAPER..PAPER..PAPER..


Fuse eats paper, :yes: Paper, rock, or sizzors.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Cratter said:


> It's drywall. Not a science project. Everyone learns from experience.
> 
> Will it crack? Everything will crack with the right conditions paper or mesh. Even paper tape can't hold a house together.
> 
> ...


Oh here we go:furious:

Hot mud is used in conjunction with mesh tape b/c, as the hotmud dries, it expands which applies tension to the mesh, causing it to stretch and give it strength. will it crack, yes, but what a mesh tape user will say is, it will remain sticking to the wall , unlike paper tape that will pop off. What they don't explain is what that mesh tape looks like under duress... CRACK!!!! . Odds are if your doing someones basement or reno, the house has gone through it's major settleling , so most of the movement of the house is done. So odds of the mesh cracking go down big time.

But with new construction, new buildings settle ALOT, This is where paper tape wins hands down. Fine hair line cracks will remain hidden behind the paper tape, well they will show through the mesh. There may be major cracking going on behind a paper tape, which any professional taper may notice, but not a Home owner:thumbup: Thats why paper is king in the corners, all new homes have cracking going on behind the angle tapes, but the paper is hiding them. So if paper is king in the corners, then it's king on the flats too


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh here we go:furious:
> 
> so most of the movement of the house is done. So odds of the mesh cracking go down big time.
> 
> But with new construction, new buildings settle ALOT, This is where paper tape wins hands down.


That is what I am talking about small patches etc. I am not running around a new house meshing everything. When you do a patch do you paper tape it on with hotmud? I have never did a test but I would think AP mud would be a stronger bond with paper tape than hot mud. If that is the case I hate waiting for the tape to dry on a small patch. I would never use mesh if it wasn't for the time saving abilities. 

Then their is the question of USG "recommends" green lid for taping but says its "OK" to use lightweight. "Seams" like a no no to me, but USG doesn't see it that way. That "seams" to be asking for trouble/cracks.

Settling causes more than cracks. You ever finish something "perfectly" only to go back a year later and the seams aren't cracked but they are visible now...unlike when it was finished.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Cratter said:


> That is what I am talking about small patches etc. I am not running around a new house meshing everything.
> 
> Settling causes more than cracks. You ever finish something "perfectly" only to go back a year later and the seams aren't cracked but they are visible now...unlike when it was finished.


Your no grass hopper..


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Cratter said:


> That is what I am talking about small patches etc. *I am not running around a new house meshing everything.* When you do a patch do you paper tape it on with hotmud? Then their is the question of USG "recommends" green lid for taping but says its "OK" to use lightweight. "Seams" like a no no to me, but USG doesn't see it that way. That "seams" to be asking for trouble/cracks.
> 
> Settling causes more than cracks. You ever finish something "perfectly" only to go back a year later and the seams aren't cracked but they are visible now...unlike when it was finished.


*

I am.* 

I tape angles with paper because finishing angles with mesh is more trouble than it's worth. These mesh/paper/fiba-fuse debates are a real good time.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh here we go:furious:
> 
> Hot mud is used in conjunction with mesh tape b/c, as the hotmud dries, it expands which applies tension to the mesh, causing it to stretch and give it strength. will it crack, yes, but what a mesh tape user will say is, it will remain sticking to the wall , unlike paper tape that will pop off. What they don't explain is what that mesh tape looks like under duress... CRACK!!!! . Odds are if your doing someones basement or reno, the house has gone through it's major settleling , so most of the movement of the house is done. So odds of the mesh cracking go down big time.
> 
> But with new construction, new buildings settle ALOT, This is where paper tape wins hands down. Fine hair line cracks will remain hidden behind the paper tape, well they will show through the mesh. There may be major cracking going on behind a paper tape, which any professional taper may notice, but not a Home owner:thumbup: *Thats why paper is king in the corners, all new homes have cracking going on behind the angle tapes, but the paper is hiding them.* So if paper is king in the corners, then it's king on the flats too


Actually, paper is king in the corners because:

a) it can be applied quickly with the proper tools
b) it offers the most ease in finishing with the least amount of effort required for the finest finish.
c) does not break/tear when finished with a knife.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> *
> 
> I am.*
> 
> I tape angles with paper because finishing angles with mesh is more trouble than it's worth. These mesh/paper/fiba-fuse debates are a real good time.


and using hotmud? 

Isn't it more expensive to mesh (twice as expensive?) and hotmud (twice as expensive?) not to mention the extra time cause you can't "box"?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Cratter said:


> and using hotmud?
> 
> Isn't it more expensive to mesh (twice as expensive?) and hotmud (twice as expensive?) not to mention the extra time cause you can't "box"?


Mesh is twice as expensive, yes. But the material cost is negligible when you factor in my time. Here, hot mud is only a dollar more a bag than mud in a box. I don't own auto tools...not due to some sense of superiority though....primarily cash flow, and a set of tools is a bigger commitment to drywall at this point in my life than I am willing to make.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Cratter said:


> and using hotmud?
> 
> Isn't it more expensive to mesh (twice as expensive?) and hotmud (twice as expensive?) not to mention the extra time cause you can't "box"?


 Around here a box of all purpose is $9.87 a box of plus 3 is $8.47 a bag of hotmud is $6.47. I run hot mud through my flat box all the time. Just means you have to wash your tools (box and pump) and not just throw them in a bucket.

I have done it both ways I have paper taped my flats and I have mesh taped my flats. As long as it is 2 beveled edges it gets mesh everything else gets paper. Who ever is certain mesh will crack every time I have been doing it this way for 18 years new homes, remodels,commercial,and industrial come to indiana and show me where the cracks are. Cause I can't find them.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Keeping with the original question of using mesh for patch jobs. I use paper for these kind of jobs just because it is easier to hide the paper than mesh. The patch is usually rocking and that means you have to build it up even more to hide your mesh which usually means atleast 1 maybe 2 extra coats to make it appear flat.


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## E.K Taper (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi OnPoint, we in the UK use mesh tape and hotmud on housebashing all the time. The only cracks we get is on the door-heads wherethe plasterboard is butt jointed and there is movement with the door banging etc, No problems wi cracking on tapered edge joints


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## jackleg (Jan 22, 2008)

for those of you that use mesh, i wonder if you have had the ability to visit your job 5 years or more later???? not pretty....... hairlines everywhere.....


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

jackleg said:


> for those of you that use mesh, i wonder if you have had the ability to visit your job 5 years or more later???? not pretty....... hairlines everywhere.....


I have been back to quite a few of them. It is pretty common around here to finish your basement at a later date. That way you aren't paying taxes on a finished basement. I always peek at my work. I also can walk into many stores or offices and see my work. Come to indiana jack I'll give you a tour, plan on staying for awhile. After the tour I'll take you to school and learn you that there is more than 1 way of finishing drywall.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cdwoodcox said:


> I have been back to quite a few of them. It is pretty common around here to finish your basement at a later date. That way you aren't paying taxes on a finished basement. I always peek at my work. I also can walk into many stores or offices and see my work. Come to indiana jack I'll give you a tour, plan on staying for awhile. After the tour I'll take you to school and learn you that there is more than 1 way of finishing drywall.


 Sure theres more than one way to finish drywall,,, and mesh cracks in all of em!!!!!

Its the hotmud,,,hot dawg.

Joints done with hotmud and NO tape are the same as joints with mesh and hotmud.

Wake up America !!!!!!!!!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Hot mud the seams next to an exterior door with mesh..block it.. skim it ..paint it... Then slam that door a few times ... I have done a lot of repair work on new and older homes . I know from experience what mesh Is all about.. IMO.. It's not worth the chance.:no:


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## OnPoint (Apr 29, 2011)

Please you sound like a beginner? I thought this was EXACTLY what this site was for, asking questions..didnt know it had to turn it to "whos been doing it longer". or a **** measuring contest. I have been doing it for 10 years now, I have ALWAYS just used paper tape, I learned to drywall under one guy, learning as much as I can from others. I have always just used his way, and he is against using mesh, but like most, has no reason why. That's what I was looking for, someone with a reason why it would or wouldnt be a good idea and WHY. Dont know if you dont ask! I have been using it more on my patches and find it saves time, wouldnt use it in a new build. I do appreciate everyone who tried to expalin why they do or do not like it. THAT was all the answer I was looking for, someone who would TRY and breakdown the reasons they think it would crack....geez, afraid to ask another question now, and look like a "rookie"..


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Sure theres more than one way to finish drywall,,, and mesh cracks in all of em!!!!!
> 
> Its the hotmud,,,hot dawg.
> 
> ...


I'm just curious if mesh cracks. Hot mud doesn't crack. Wouldn't every body just use hot mud and forget tape all together? Because I can take you to a thousand jobs that have no cracks that were meshed and ran with hot mud.:blink:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cdwoodcox said:


> I'm just curious if mesh cracks. Hot mud doesn't crack. Wouldn't every body just use hot mud and forget tape all together? Because I can take you to a thousand jobs that have no cracks that were meshed and ran with hot mud.:blink:


 Knock yourself out brother !!!

Oh LOOK,, the Emporer is naked !!!!!!


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

you'll never see the forest for the trees...
already got in trouble for saying level 5 is level 5
you seem a little thinned skinned for a taper
10 years and you don't know why or if mesh cracks?
hmmmm
The best tapers I have ever known all knew whether mesh would crack.
I know if mesh will crack.
Clearly moore, Capt.SR, @ 2Buck know.
You really don't know?
I'm asking.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

muttbucket said:


> you'll never see the forest for the trees...
> already got in trouble for saying level 5 is level 5
> you seem a little thinned skinned for a taper
> 10 years and you don't know why or if mesh cracks?
> ...


 I know I got a buzz tonight,,,, but that is really a FINE post !!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> I have been back to quite a few of them. It is pretty common around here to finish your basement at a later date. That way you aren't paying taxes on a finished basement. I always peek at my work. I also can walk into many stores or offices and see my work. Come to indiana jack I'll give you a tour, plan on staying for awhile. After the tour I'll take you to school and learn you that there is more than 1 way of finishing drywall.


Does it snow there, if not, ill come down:thumbup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cdwoodcox said:


> I'm just curious if mesh cracks. Hot mud doesn't crack. Wouldn't every body just use hot mud and forget tape all together? Because I can take you to a thousand jobs that have no cracks that were meshed and ran with hot mud.:blink:


You pose that as IF your willing to honestly debate,,,,LOL,, as a mesh man, I know you didn't mean it that way.

read your own post, I said that its the hotmud, not the mesh. Just use hotmud and no mesh. 

You said you can take me to 1,000's of jobs that ain;t cracked cause you used hot mud and mesh. How many jobs can you take me to that have AP and mesh that haven't cracked????????

Its the hotmud, not the mesh !!!!!

Wake up America !!!!!!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You pose that as IF your willing to honestly debate,,,,LOL,, as a mesh man, I know you didn't mean it that way.
> 
> read your own post, I said that its the hotmud, not the mesh. Just use hotmud and no mesh.
> 
> ...


As much as I don't want to argue with such an upstanding member of the interwebs drywall community....I'm gonna hafta.

It's not the hot mud, it's the combination of the two. I've seen prefill joints crack with only hot mud, but the joints do no such thing with the mesh added. I've also seen Ultra-fill crack with no mesh. 

Carry on then :thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> I can take you to a thousand jobs that have no cracks that were meshed and ran with hot mud.:blink:


Oh yeah? I can take you to Electric Avenue.....beat that suckah


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> As much as I don't want to argue with such an upstanding member of the interwebs drywall community....I'm gonna hafta.
> 
> It's not the hot mud, it's the combination of the two. I've seen prefill joints crack with only hot mud, but the joints do no such thing with the mesh added. I've also seen Ultra-fill crack with no mesh.
> 
> Carry on then :thumbsup:


Slim, I know you like it, trust it, and use it.

I have seen dura-rock mesh taped and then coated with synthetic stucco, dryvit to be exact and seen it crack in a cpl days.

Perhaps it works for you, but i have NEVER seen it work,,,

Just my 2 bucks worth


And whats up with calling me upstanding??????


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

I bet if you were able to run mesh through a bazooka it would be the best thing since sliced bread. :


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> And whats up with calling me upstanding??????


:lol:

I knew that would get your goat! Or your sheep, or whatever animal you depraved types are into these days :jester:


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> I bet if you were able to run mesh through a bazooka it would be the best thing since sliced bread. :


They do..its called a monster mesh gun...oh wait...they quit selling it....I wonder why

Im not jumping on any bandwagon here...mesh has its places and can say I use it for certain things..patchwork is one of them...mesh/20min/heat gun gets me in and out in same day...I use it for clinched metal bead and 90min so when you come to work next day it is dry and ready to skim...other than that, it stays in bottom of tool bucket


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The war Is over... I found the solution....:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> The war Is over... I found the solution....:yes:


You're going to have to post it if you hope for any chance of being believed. :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Paper mesh ??? hey..Justme .. you remember this tape???


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Paper mesh ??? hey..Justme .. you remember this tape???


:laughing:

I went to visit my dad this past summer, and he used a bunch of stuff like that. After I went , I changed the subject and complimented him on the new kitchen.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

moore said:


> Paper mesh ???


That's it? Maybe could add some nano technology to it. Make it a little nano mesh.



moore said:


> hey..Justme .. you remember this tape???


:no:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

That roll of tape is 40 years old . Just thought some of you old timers would have seen it before.


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

moore said:


> That roll of tape is 40 years old . Just thought some of you old timers would have seen it before.


Is that tape called Hard Cote?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Goldbond,,, before they became National gypsum,,, use to perferate their tape,,, not nearly as big as those holes tho. If they still did that,,, I'd still use their tape,,,,,,,,, Aw heck, I do still use their tape,,, but it WAS better when they perferated it.

disclaimer: perferated PAPER tape is not, nor should it EVER be compared or confused with mesh tape,,,,,,,, paper tape is paper,,, not flimsy fiberglass that rolls with every punch.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

OK!!!!...back to the mesh debate


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Is that tape called Hard Cote?


I have no idea MT ..I found this roll in my uncles garage when I was 8 and hung onto ever since . so It could be from the 60s ???


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> I have no idea MT ..I found this roll in my uncles garage when I was 8 and hung onto ever since . so It could be from the 60s ???


 Any kid that steals a roll of tape at age 8 and hangs on to it,,,,,,:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Any kid that steals a roll of tape at age 8 and hangs on to it,,,,,,:whistling2:


:lol::lol::lol:The blood is white on the Moore side ,....


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

moore said:


> Paper mesh ??? hey..Justme .. you remember this tape???


 perfatape right?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

chris said:


> perfatape right?


That roll of tape is older than I am Chris... I'm 43..


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

...and the perforations could pad up and sometimes the holes themselves would be discolored by age or ???
The old tape with the real holes was better if'n ya asked me 
talk about stick
but isn't that the kind ya find cracked alot with age too?
umm 
I just use whatever paper tape the distributor has
Any of it goes through my gun.
High rise contractors tried the mesh for a while.
Could use semi skilled tapers to apply it.
They still have guns that run it.
Put on a coat right away.
save a wipedown?
Anyway
fuggers admitted the mistake and use paper again.
In all commercial, and institutional from as far as I've seen,
people shy away from it.
I wonder if it cracks and why?
No just kidding
I know from looking at my current job
everything has baked out and cracks appear just about on every surface.
Wherever the board moves, wherever there wasn't enough meat for the mud on butts, wherever the joint is a foot or less in any fenestration
wherever the rock gets pushed mechanically wherever steady vibration such as footfalls affect the board,
sometimes it does stay good,
as mentioned in applications where the factory flats meet in none of the above mentioned conditions
maybe then it doesn't crack
patches still I don't have enough experience to comment on that too much
and for sure Bill from Indy called it-
Taping down metals fast fast fast


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## Captain Drywall (Aug 15, 2011)

if you see a old patch that recracked you cant blame it on mesh tape. That spot is going to crack no matter what. the origanal paper tape cracked also. Ive been fixing cracks for ten years with mesh no problems.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

hey capt

I believe they called that spark perf...good stuff...if you held it up in light you could see a bunch of tiny holes that looked somebody went nuts with a needle

there is a company that makes it now...cant remember who but they sell it at menards...not as good though...when its wet, you cant pull it out of banjo...like banjo sitting in water or mud in it and come back from lunch


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bill from Indy said:


> I believe they called that spark perf


You can still find Sparkperf here but instead of round holes it looks like it was punctured by teeth on a roller or something like that.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

i checked yesterday when I was there.....its marco made by proroc...certainteed


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Talking old school crap----you guys remember Slick50 mud?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

DSJOHN said:


> Talking old school crap----you guys remember Slick50 mud?


OK . machacho ,,I'll bite.. Did it come in a metal can:whistling2:


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

moore said:


> OK . machacho ,,I'll bite.. Did it come in a metal can:whistling2:


Not in my neighborhood , it was a yellow and black bucket--real sure Gold Bond product, when it dried it had a hard glaze ,pita to sand


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Did a little test with mesh tape today....coated with hot mud with concrete adhesive in it. 1/2" rock, pushed between studs and that sh!t was flexing big time without a crack......then...........POP! At about 3/8" of flex, the bond let go, and that, while the hot mud was still green. If a house is going to move THAT much, they've got bigger issues than joint cracks. I'm pretty sure that if the hot mud had been dry I would have broken the board before that bond let go. That would have sucked.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Did a little test with mesh tape today....coated with hot mud with concrete adhesive in it. 1/2" rock, pushed between studs and that sh!t was flexing big time without a crack......then...........POP! At about 3/8" of flex, the bond let go, and that, while the hot mud was still green. If a house is going to move THAT much, they've got bigger issues than joint cracks. I'm pretty sure that if the hot mud had been dry I would have broken the board before that bond let go. That would have sucked.


Green is the key word here.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Green is the key word here.


I thought at first it might have more crack resistance because of the moisture, but when I was chiseling hot mud off a piece of metal that I could only coat one side of yesterday, I had direct evidence that the bond only strengthened with drying. It's the adhesive....I've gotten mesh/hot mud joints to crack with substantial pressure, but nothing like what I saw today

Now I'm going to do some more tests, at home, in all my free time:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I thought at first it might have more crack resistance because of the moisture, but when I was chiseling hot mud off a piece of metal that I could only coat one side of yesterday, I had direct evidence that the bond only strengthened with drying. It's the adhesive....I've gotten mesh/hot mud joints to crack with substantial pressure, but nothing like what I saw today
> 
> Now I'm going to do some more tests, at home, in all my free time:whistling2:


Are you poking at me Slim? I'm like the pillsbury dough boy when I get poked ,,hee hee . yes this week has been depressing plumbers held one home up for 3 weeks. Another one held up held up waiting on roofing [metal] I had things planned out so I could walk out of one then walk into another..But now as it stands ,This coming Monday I'll have a 150 board speck ready for rock [ no power no heat] A 129 board Church add. ready for rock. A 250 board custom home ready for rock ..529 boards loaded Monday,,oh,, 30 board garage ready next week too.. [ turning that one down] 2 weeks from now ,,a 240 board remodel  [ h/o they can wait] Talk about anxiety  Yes It's a good problem to have,,The hangings not a problem,,but for A lone taper It's a lot of stress.The church and speck should have been hung/finished and painted by now.


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## MAVan (Nov 4, 2011)

Hey, I just joined this group. I've been a paper taper for about 12 years. High rise trained in the last boom in Vancouver. I recently relocated to the east coast of the US. Everyone back here uses fiberglass tape (of various varieties), and 1st coats it with durabond (basically fast set). I've got to say I am impressed with the system. The key is that you can't use the sandable type of fast set (in vancouver I think it was proset, but I'm sure there are dozens of brands. It takes about 40-50% longer to get the flats done then it would with a bazooka (so if you're an hour per 10k' with 2 tapers, now you're at an hour and a half for flats per 10K') I've actually converted to this system (only for bevel joints for the 3 following reasons. 1 It leaves a fuller joint so you can run you're 10" box on a tigher setting, 2. there's no drips so the job site stays neater (which seems to be pretty important to people back here) and 3 If you use the system I've come to like, paper taping the butts it gives you an opportunity to hit the with an initial tight shot of hot mud if need be. Hope this helps.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I'm sure quite a few guys here do that occasionally including myself but don't make a habit out of it. Except for the Aussies and Kiwis who seem to HAVE to use this system because of drying issues. Poor souls !


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Are you poking at me Slim? I'm like the pillsbury dough boy when I get poked ,,hee hee . yes this week has been depressing plumbers held one home up for 3 weeks. Another one held up held up waiting on roofing [metal] I had things planned out so I could walk out of one then walk into another..But now as it stands ,This coming Monday I'll have a 150 board speck ready for rock [ no power no heat] A 129 board Church add. ready for rock. A 250 board custom home ready for rock ..529 boards loaded Monday,,oh,, 30 board garage ready next week too.. [ turning that one down] 2 weeks from now ,,a 240 board remodel [ h/o they can wait] Talk about anxiety  Yes It's a good problem to have,,The hangings not a problem,,but for A lone taper It's a lot of stress.The church and speck should have been hung/finished and painted by now.


Naw man, I'm not poking fun! I was being sarcastic about my free time, it doesn't exist (although it sounds like you've got a heavier plate than I do at the moment). I've been working late days an hour away while 5000 ft. of rock and a case of Green Glue are sitting across the street (literally) waiting for me to get to it, and 3 calls this week about more work. I'm buried too. I might also have 3 condos on the hook, which means I may have to pony up for a tape set . It'll pay for itself over the course of those jobs. I've also got a log remodel with lots of scribework and they want to finish with American Clay. It's only 1500 feet of rock, but it has a $7000 pricetag:thumbsup:

Chin up mister....it's good to be busy


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

OnPoint said:


> I usually use paper tape for all of my jobs. Once in awhile on a patch I will use Mesh/fiber tape (never on corners of course)..My question is: What does everyone think about using Mush/Fiber tape? Good/Bad?..any faults in using this over paper tape on joints?
> 
> Was going to do a repair in a pre-existing textured ceiling where the the tape is coming off on the joints, usually I would use 20 minute and retape with paper, wanted to use the mesh tape as would be faster..any suggestions/comments on this?
> 
> Appreciate all of the input! Thanks.


someone pull the trigger, I'm not sure I can...............:blink:


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