# How Many Sheets Per Day



## A+ Texture LLC

Do you guys prefer 2 or 3 man hangin crews and how much should they get done per day (TOTAL not per guy). Lets use 12' sheets and smaller as an example (we can't get anything longer here) and a 2000 sq ft house with 9' ceilings. A typical subdivision home. I'm looking for averages here not the fastest crews you can think of.


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## silverstilts

My two guys would do that in an 8 hr day without working too hard butand by being steady , i have seen others that worked for me do it in less time and not use a router but hand cut everything and not miss a box & everything tight like it should be in about six hours because of there experience knowing what the other is doing and working as one ..... i have seen others take 2 or more days that is based on a 2000' home with about 150 pcs. of board..(7400') realistically about a day and half for most though....and what i pay that is damn good @.25 per ft. I think a 3 man crew works the best as one is cutting and the other 2 hang works much faster if they have years together as a crew...


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## Whitey97

^ I agree with everything you said, even the pay! being we're from the same area


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> My two guys would do that in an 8 hr day without working too hard butand by being steady , i have seen others that worked for me do it in less time and not use a router but hand cut everything and not miss a box & everything tight like it should be in about six hours because of there experience knowing what the other is doing and working as one ..... i have seen others take 2 or more days that is based on a 2000' home with about 150 pcs. of board..(7400') realistically about a day and half for most though....and what i pay that is damn good @.25 per ft. I think a 3 man crew works the best as one is cutting and the other 2 hang works much faster if they have years together as a crew...


well, you all know what im going to say bout those prices..... 25 cents a sq. ft? (is this correct??)

so, lets do the math:

- assumumptions: 

_ - 2 man crew (thats what i would use)
- 1 day to hang (or 8 hrs x 2 men = 16 tot. man hrs.)_

so, 2000 sf house, accounting for wallboard feet, 9' ceilings lets say 7,500 board sq. ft. at the minimum.

1. 7500 sf x .25/sf = $1,875

2. $1,875 / 2 men = $937.50 (per hanger)

3. $937.50 / 8 hrs = $117.19 / hr.


hmmm......118 bucks an hour.....not bad for an honest days work right?

Stilts...i might as well close my business, and become one of your hangers. i'd LOVE to work for your company. working for Stilts, he'll pay me over 100 bucks an hour!

............


God help if you are running a business Stilts. don't blame the economy if you have to close down, please. just being honest, not trying to rile you up. but that is insane.

i HOPE I AM WRONG. please say that my math is wrong, and that i have something terribly misunderstood. PLEASE.


ok ok....im willing to consider you meant 2000 sf TOTAL, incl. wallboard. lets try that......see how that math works.

1. 2000 sf. x .25 cents/sf = $500

2. $500 / 2 men = $250

3. $250 / 8 hrs = $31.25 / hr.

well......ill still say this, at 32 bucks an hour -- i'd still love to work for you stilts.


Stilts, in all seriousness....i dont know what kind of 'labor market prices' you have in your area.....but BOTH those scenarios i presented above are ridiculous......even at 32 bucks an hour. God forbid 118 bucks an hour.

I honestly dare anyone on this forum to agree that 32 bucks an hour or 118 bucks an hour for hanging is appropriate and acceptable??? i dont care how experienced you are.........and in times like this??????

no way. not even in the best of times.

unless you subcontract hangers from Lowe's or Home Depot, the numbers you are talking about paying are just insane. any way you cut it.

you are terribly spoiling the labor market if you pay prices like that.

its not possible.......i HAVE to be wrong.....i have to have misread or misunderstood something.

do you have employees as hangers working FOR you? or is this subcontracted hangers Stilts?

if they were subcontracted, that is the only way that would make sense.


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## silverstilts

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> well, you all know what im going to say bout those prices..... 25 cents a sq. ft? (is this correct??)
> 
> so, lets do the math:
> 
> - assumumptions:
> 
> _- 2 man crew (thats what i would use)_
> _- 1 day to hang (or 8 hrs x 2 men = 16 tot. man hrs.)_
> 
> so, 2000 sf house, accounting for wallboard feet, 9' ceilings lets say 7,500 board sq. ft. at the minimum.
> 
> 1. 7500 sf x .25/sf = $1,875
> 
> 2. $1,875 / 2 men = $937.50 (per hanger)
> 
> 3. $937.50 / 8 hrs = $117.19 / hr.
> 
> 
> hmmm......118 bucks an hour.....not bad for an honest days work right?
> 
> Stilts...i might as well close my business, and become one of your hangers. i'd LOVE to work for your company. working for Stilts, he'll pay me over 100 bucks an hour!
> 
> ............
> 
> 
> God help if you are running a business Stilts. don't blame the economy if you have to close down, please. just being honest, not trying to rile you up. but that is insane.
> 
> i HOPE I AM WRONG. please say that my math is wrong, and that i have something terribly misunderstood. PLEASE.
> 
> 
> ok ok....im willing to consider you meant 2000 sf TOTAL, incl. wallboard. lets try that......see how that math works.
> 
> 1. 2000 sf. x .25 cents/sf = $500
> 
> 2. $500 / 2 men = $250
> 
> 3. $250 / 8 hrs = $31.25 / hr.
> 
> well......ill still say this, at 32 bucks an hour -- i'd still love to work for you stilts.
> 
> 
> Stilts, in all seriousness....i dont know what kind of 'labor market prices' you have in your area.....but BOTH those scenarios i presented above are ridiculous......even at 32 bucks an hour. God forbid 118 bucks an hour.
> 
> I honestly dare anyone on this forum to agree that 32 bucks an hour or 118 bucks an hour for hanging is appropriate and acceptable??? i dont care how experienced you are.........and in times like this??????
> 
> no way. not even in the best of times.
> 
> unless you subcontract hangers from Lowe's or Home Depot, the numbers you are talking about paying are just insane. any way you cut it.
> 
> you are terribly spoiling the labor market if you pay prices like that.
> 
> its not possible.......i HAVE to be wrong.....i have to have misread or misunderstood something.
> 
> do you have employees as hangers working FOR you? or is this subcontracted hangers Stilts?
> 
> if they were subcontracted, that is the only way that would make sense.


You are correct in assuming that I used 7500' on my calculations , what is wrong with this pic is the fact it goes back to what a person is worth . If I was only a contractor that only hung board and hired guys ( BY THE HOUR ) then no i would not be paying them $118.00 per hour but rather in the 32-35 range..... You missed the point again ,You are a contractor , MY Hangers are also contractors , so that's what i contract out my hanging with them at ... So they put a little profit into there pockets , Isn't this what is all about ????? You profit off from subbing out work from contractors & homeowners , and it is no different for the hangers that I hire .... If you are self-employed whats the point of working for someone for an hourly wage ??? These guys are in the same boat as you and I they are trying to make a decent living ....Not to mention I still make a profit margin off of them . Do you see my point now ? I tell you that unless you make some serious money being self employed you may as well go to work by the hour and not have any of the stress.... yes I do make into the med. six digits , have been for years , and I doubt I will ever go under ( been through way too much other than just a sluggish economy & the recession that is upon us ) , I know my business and I know it very well , I know what works and have the profits to prove it , I don't need to squeeze those who work for me just for my own greed ... Things are great , and after 30 years plus will you be able to say the same ???


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## silverstilts

Just to clarify the point the hangers I use are subbing work from me .... as to what ****** that pay is the going rate .... it's not just hear either seems to me I have read other posts with similar pay scales . So I am not worked up Custom may over read things at times , but hey , only a guy with opinions .


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## [email protected]

First, I think you're off on the footage. For a 2000 floor foot house w/ 9' ceilings, I guess upwards of 8000 at least w/o a garage.

And my guys would charge me around half of what you are paying. 

More power to you if this business model is working. Obviously the recession has not made it to your part of the world. Here we have builders cutting out the DW contractor altogether, hiring hangers and tapers directly and buying their own rock. They think were gouging them. Hope none of them ever find this thread.

Custom is right again. No offense Silver, enjoy those numbers.


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## A+ Texture LLC

I think the customer base you appeal to is a factor. Quality of work too. Thats my angle on my jobs, trying to do a better job then these guys hiring a gang af mexicans to beat the crap out of the board with hammers and nails. I was shocked to see what some of my competition is doing. For the last 6 or 7 years I've done loads of modulars and doublewides, don't laugh, I can make a grand a day EASY, sometimes more. And I know theres guys around will charge $600 for what I charge 1,100. The difference is I have letters of recomendation from dealers and Bigwigs from the largest builder of doublewides in the Southwest. So If you can make a grand in a day, ride that pony till it dies. And lets all pray this economy picks up and we can all start making money again. Cuz God knows it's getting harder.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> Just to clarify the point the hangers I use are subbing work from me .... as to what ****** that pay is the going rate .... it's not just hear either seems to me I have read other posts with similar pay scales . So I am not worked up Custom may over read things at times , but hey , only a guy with opinions .



okay, then they are subcontracted...........still....a few questions:

Why are you subconracting your hanging, may i ask? you dont have hangers employed underneath you that you can pay whatever wage you want?

if you are operating a business as a drywall subcontractor, then do you act as a 'drywall general' and subcontract everything out, i.e. hanging, finishing, texturing? if the answer is 'yes' then why are you in business then? -- you are paying retail prices arent you? Where im from......25 cents per sf for hanging......is what i would charge a CUSTOMER of mine....thats, labor ALONE.

stilts, trust me....i don't want to offend you, criticize you, let alone tell you how to run your business.....but you are the one getting price gouged my friend......ASSUMING i'm correct (i still feel im missing your entire picture here, and things are just easily lost in translation on here for obvious reasons and that i'm missing a few key pts).

to second what Darren said above, yea stilts...if this business model IS working for you, and you can make a decent profit on it -- good.......great actually.

my opinion (and btw you're right, it is my opinion only...im glad you respect and acknowledge that) is that...the range you talk above as being 'okay,' in your area, 30 -25 per hour.....

THAT'S quite a shocker. Where i operate..........lets put it this way, if a hanger came into my office looking for employment....and stated on his application that he was accustomed to making over $30 bucks an hour.....there's not one second of hesitation where i, or even my head foreman would tell the guy to take a hike.

and in times like this??? that would be pure OFFENSIVE to ask for that much per hour.

i've never even seen a 'whiteboy' (no offense to anyone) demand more than 25 per hour......and STILL, thats laughable.

currently in my office (where i am typing this -- yea its that slow hahaha).......behind me, i got two folders stacked full with at least 40 apps each.........most of them hangers....about 25% of them finishers.

anyways, i'll tell you right now stilts......i have a section on my app that reads 'desired wage: ____'

for my area stilts, the seemingly desired wage, or what i like to think of as my markets 'current labor rate avg'.........is 11 bucks an hour.

yea, i got some that go as high (what i think is high) as $15 bucks per hr.........one even at 18$ per hour.....but thats as high as it goes my friend. i have one even as low as $8 bucks per hour......thats my states min. wage.

but yea, most of these are in the $10 - $12 per hour range.

stilts, think about that for a second......and compare it to what you're paying.

now, i know what you're gonna say...'you have the best hangers in your area, and my hangers are all amateur, mexican hacks, and they dont do quality work, etc etc'

but seriously....ask yourself.....what IS 'quality' today??? im not gonna preach and say i have the best hangers in town......but my BUSINESS is based on reputation and quality work. i couldnt have stayed in business THIS LONG now if it wasnt based on that alone. yea, i may not be the highest paying in town.....but i know i can compete with ANYONE. what matters to me and my customers is the FINAL product i deliver.

i had a person ask me why my work is so expensive....jokingly saying 'well youre probably using "Jose Gonzales" to hang my house anyways, i know those guys cant cost you that much at all!'

everytime someone puts me in a position like this and says that to me, i always answer:

*"hey...are you paying for my employees? or are you paying for my EXPERTISE and knowledge in this industry? because anyone can do drywall, lets face it.......but the reason you called my company, is because you've seen and KNOW the end-result and final product i deliver..."*

100% of the time, you know how they answer? they usually just embarrassingly chuckle -- because they know im right.


and thats no joke stilts.....im not tryin to blow steam or any BS like that at you, but im just bein serious.....ANYONE can do drywall......its sad, but true. what id like to believe sets me apart from the rest and why i charge FOR that -- is my knowledge.

in my small - medium sized market, my name is synonymous with 'drywall'......i'll tell you one thing, people may not use me all the time to do the drywall in their house because of my price....but as soon as something goes wrong with their current sub.......guess who they call to come fix it.

again, im not trying to sound arrogant, or cocky when i say that, but its true. like how you say this is your business, and you know it well -- you are not the only one that can claim that my friend. fortunately, we both can.


anyways, you are right when you say that "_MY Hangers are also contractors , so that's what i contract out my hanging with them at ... So they put a little profit into there pockets , Isn't this what is all about ????? You profit off from subbing out work from contractors & homeowners , and it is no different for the hangers that I hire .... If you are self-employed whats the point of working for someone for an hourly wage ???_"

yea, there is nothing wrong with this.....but, its not the only option. Thats the wonderful thing about the u.s. is that it is a free market based on capitalism. make all the money you want, within legal means....

stilts, what im trying to say is, you dont HAVE to hire a 'hanging subcontractor??' Unless you are doing this to give yourself a 'good feeling' inside...knowing that you are sharing your hard-earned money around to other people or 'enriching your local economy,' it doesnt make sense. the only way i see this working, is if your end-customer is paying for it -- that would make sense. although, i just dont see that happening as well....i would have to markup an arm and a leg to the customer at the rates you are paying -- just not practical.

i dont know....please clarify if i am totally not getting it, but i would never 'subcontract' out my labor? i dont see the use of this unless you are doing it for charitable causes. this is definitely not the most profitable approach....but then again, i really DONT know your true intentions, so that maybe just it right there. 

is that .25/sf hanging subcontractor including the cost of sheetrock also????

so how much you pay for finishing? do you perform this yourself? which i can see you saving money that way....


eh, i dunno...still confused. just doesnt sound right. but its your business....and im glad you have been around so long. as far as my company? yea, im sure we'll be around another 30 years.....the question is do i WANT to be doing drywall that much longer? hell no.

i want to sell the company within 5.-6 years and work on my real estate and land development.

much less headache w/ more money.

...whats the old saying about real estate?


"God ain't makin' anymore of it"


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> First, I think you're off on the footage. For a 2000 floor foot house w/ 9' ceilings, I guess upwards of 8000 at least w/o a garage.
> 
> And my guys would charge me around half of what you are paying.
> 
> More power to you if this business model is working. Obviously the recession has not made it to your part of the world. Here we have builders cutting out the DW contractor altogether, hiring hangers and tapers directly and buying their own rock. They think were gouging them. Hope none of them ever find this thread.
> 
> Custom is right again. No offense Silver, enjoy those numbers.


yea, you are definitely right.....for the sake of being cordial, i put in 7500 as a CONSERVATIVE number....the model house i usually do like that for my production builder (1900 sf, 9' clngs), a standard plan ALWAYS stocks 8,600. that is incl. the garage.

hahha....

anyways, yes Darren, you saw what i wrote above....if he can make it work like that, hell...more power to ya. i just dont see a market like that sustaining though......unless he's doing drywall on another planet, i believe there is NO WHERE in the u.s. paying labor rates such as his.

however, i was watching Dateline, i believe the other night....where they were talking about a SMALL SMALL mid-western town where their local economy was not depressed, but THRIVING....construction esp BOOMING nearly. they interviewed some joint-fitter i think saying that he'd have no problem if he lost his job today....because he knew another construction company would hire him the next day.

yea, i know...amazing.

so, wherever stilts is from....ya neverrrr know! hah! Dateline may have been in his freakin neighborhood for all i know.

just as you say though Darren: _*"Obviously the recession has not made it to your part of the world."*_

anyways...to EVERYONE:

GOOD LUCK OUT THERE


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## silverstilts

yes income may be somewhat higher here than out west and yes i am sure you have to deal with a lot of hacks and cutthroats there . drywall contractors come and go and the ones that work cheap around here won't last more than a couple of jobs because of the lousy work , it is not a metropolitan area here and relatively a small area 'work quality' done by the hacks well lets just say the word gets out real fast and not to mention there still seems to be a sense of loyalty here ... back to the taping yes i do that myself along with a few guys that have worked for me for quite some time , i have gone through so many guys that have told me their journeymen when they don't even preformed to an apprentice level , i always give people the benefit of doubt usually one day i can tell but even give them one week to prove themselves starting a new job and such if it don't work out they are done. i pay top dollar because i hand pick those that work for me . i don't just put people on the job to satisfy a contractor ... it can cause to many problems and undo what took me years in my opinion to get to where i am at... I've paid my dues more than you can imagine don't want ruin my reputation on s**t work done by someone else , I think you know what i am talking about......it can take one bad job to give a contractor a bad taste and to look elsewhere can't have that happen.... there is so much to it i could never explain it .... ramble on i do


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## eastex1963

Drywall subs are getting .18 sq. ft. here. The "good" ones, anyways. I don't just hang. Can't seem to make any $$$ at it. I DO hang AND finish....the finish is where I make my money. My rates(as of today) are anywhere between .42 to .50 sq. ft. to hang and finish, supplying all but rock. 

Btw, the hangers are usually a 3 man crew...takes a good day to hang 7500 sq. ft. Heck, I hung 4000 sq. ft. for a friend (freebie) by myself saturday in about 6 hours. Lids and walls.


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## silverstilts

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> yea, you are definitely right.....for the sake of being cordial, i put in 7500 as a CONSERVATIVE number....the model house i usually do like that for my production builder (1900 sf, 9' clngs), a standard plan ALWAYS stocks 8,600. that is incl. the garage.
> 
> hahha....
> 
> anyways, yes Darren, you saw what i wrote above....if he can make it work like that, hell...more power to ya. i just dont see a market like that sustaining though......unless he's doing drywall on another planet, i believe there is NO WHERE in the u.s. paying labor rates such as his.
> 
> however, i was watching Dateline, i believe the other night....where they were talking about a SMALL SMALL mid-western town where their local economy was not depressed, but THRIVING....construction esp BOOMING nearly. they interviewed some joint-fitter i think saying that he'd have no problem if he lost his job today....because he knew another construction company would hire him the next day.
> 
> yea, i know...amazing.
> 
> so, wherever stilts is from....ya neverrrr know! hah! Dateline may have been in his freakin neighborhood for all i know.
> 
> just as you say though Darren: _*"Obviously the recession has not made it to your part of the world."*_
> 
> anyways...to EVERYONE:
> 
> GOOD LUCK OUT THERE


 No Dateline has not been here and yes the recession has hit my area as well most general contractors as well as a lot of tapers are starving for work but a few of us still remain strong and it looks like a good year so far , a lot of new projects coming up ,knock on wood right...


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## [email protected]

Am constantly amazed at the impression the non-drywall public have of the appearance of work. folks seem to care much more about their wallets than what their drywall looks like. Ask a painter, he'll tell you true. These cutthroats and hacks, some do passin' work, meaning folks expect a painter to make it look right, and with a thick-a** roller or texture paint, they usually can or at least help hide the BS. So they get the idea that quality drywall work isn't worth the extra money.

The big outfits, if they turn out a turd, they send an army out to fix some or most and go on to the next victim. The truth about the cutthroats is ... most are really good tradesmen who are out of work and went on their own, but have yet to learn the cost of doing business. Maybe the wife has a great job and the don't have to make a killing, just as long as they don't lose too much along the way. These guys are the same ones who were your last really good finisher but had to lay them off or fill in the blank. Regardless, now they are competing for work that should be coming y/our way. But no, those guys are glad to get the work and really don't care about the trade. Oh they talk some good sh** but if they truly did they'd not lower the entire industry that way.

Then there are what I call "those" guys. Maybe they are an immigrant(legal and speaking English) who've been here a while or maybe some local who falls into some big work somehow. But their MO is to hire a bunch of guys to work on the big job then steal their money and go on to another area(usually gypsy-type hotel and apt. work). They beat (or allow the GC to) the price to the dirt so the established guys finally won't even bid those jobs anymore. These same guys take the supply houses and yards for a good ride, along with anybody else wlo'll give em credit. They are scum and we all know at least three to ten of these sh**birds.

Maybe all this belongs on another thread and someone out there fits the description and will rip on me for the above. Big deal. I treat my people fairly and pay them at least the going rate. But "those" guys ruin it not only for me and my men but for all reputable contractors, drywall or otherwise. 

Earlier post I mentioned how builders are starting to end-around the DW contractor and hire hangers and tapers because they think the gouge is on, been told that by one just last week. That perception doesn't come out of nowhere fellas. While I don't begrudge those getting all they can, beware everybody is watching the housing business right now. You think these builders don't talk with one and another?

What I'm trying to say is... pricing too low or too high is causing serious damage to the entire industry. And them mid-sized outfits are the ones that are gonna pay along with their workers, who'll really be affected most. 

Cutthroating sucks. It sucks to go up against it and lose. It sucks for the guy having to do it to feed his family. I get that.

But gouging is like heroin. Bet it feels great but some day the stuff won't be there and then they'll get the DTs.

Sorry for the rant. But boy do I feel better :rockon:


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> Am constantly amazed at the impression the non-drywall public have of the appearance of work. folks seem to care much more about their wallets than what their drywall looks like. Ask a painter, he'll tell you true. These cutthroats and hacks, some do passin' work, meaning folks expect a painter to make it look right, and with a thick-a** roller or texture paint, they usually can or at least help hide the BS. So they get the idea that quality drywall work isn't worth the extra money.
> 
> The big outfits, if they turn out a turd, they send an army out to fix some or most and go on to the next victim. The truth about the cutthroats is ... most are really good tradesmen who are out of work and went on their own, but have yet to learn the cost of doing business. Maybe the wife has a great job and the don't have to make a killing, just as long as they don't lose too much along the way. These guys are the same ones who were your last really good finisher but had to lay them off or fill in the blank. Regardless, now they are competing for work that should be coming y/our way. But no, those guys are glad to get the work and really don't care about the trade. Oh they talk some good sh** but if they truly did they'd not lower the entire industry that way.
> 
> Then there are what I call "those" guys. Maybe they are an immigrant(legal and speaking English) who've been here a while or maybe some local who falls into some big work somehow. But their MO is to hire a bunch of guys to work on the big job then steal their money and go on to another area(usually gypsy-type hotel and apt. work). They beat (or allow the GC to) the price to the dirt so the established guys finally won't even bid those jobs anymore. These same guys take the supply houses and yards for a good ride, along with anybody else wlo'll give em credit. They are scum and we all know at least three to ten of these sh**birds.
> 
> Maybe all this belongs on another thread and someone out there fits the description and will rip on me for the above. Big deal. I treat my people fairly and pay them at least the going rate. But "those" guys ruin it not only for me and my men but for all reputable contractors, drywall or otherwise.
> 
> Earlier post I mentioned how builders are starting to end-around the DW contractor and hire hangers and tapers because they think the gouge is on, been told that by one just last week. That perception doesn't come out of nowhere fellas. While I don't begrudge those getting all they can, beware everybody is watching the housing business right now. You think these builders don't talk with one and another?
> 
> What I'm trying to say is... pricing too low or too high is causing serious damage to the entire industry. And them mid-sized outfits are the ones that are gonna pay along with their workers, who'll really be affected most.
> 
> Cutthroating sucks. It sucks to go up against it and lose. It sucks for the guy having to do it to feed his family. I get that.
> 
> But gouging is like heroin. Bet it feels great but some day the stuff won't be there and then they'll get the DTs.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. But boy do I feel better :rockon:


yea, hear that.....

and contractors DO talk, thats for damn sure. especially in small towns. Darren, just last month, i had a contractor do the same thing to me.....hire his own hangers and tapers off the street to perform the drywall at 'half my bid price.' however, not just do the big generals talk, but also us subs.....

and what you said about non-drywall people only thinking about their wallets, i couldnt agree more.

bottomline, (not just because this is our industry) drywall to me, is the MOST important element in any house. drywall and paint, let me rephrase......its literally everything you see, or at least a good 80-85% of it. think about it.

we cant just hide our work like a shoddy electrician or a plumber behind walls (no offense to those trades).

the main thing i stress to a potential customer who is hesitant on pricing, is 'hey....the drywall in your house is one of the first things you will see when you wakeup in in the morning, and very well one of the last things you see before you go to bed at night -- its literally ALL around you. pricing is not the ONLY thing to consider, when choosing a sub. the end product DOES matter."

flat out, thats how i usually tell them......sometimes they come around, sometimes they think im full of it -- whatever. you win some, you lose some.


Darren, also about your rant, i cant help think some of it is directed at myself. maybe, maybe not. maybe to everyone! but im curious is to how it came about, did something you read here particularly set you off?


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> yes income may be somewhat higher here than out west and yes i am sure you have to deal with a lot of hacks and cutthroats there . drywall contractors come and go and the ones that work cheap around here won't last more than a couple of jobs because of the lousy work , it is not a metropolitan area here and relatively a small area 'work quality' done by the hacks well lets just say the word gets out real fast and not to mention there still seems to be a sense of loyalty here ... back to the taping yes i do that myself along with a few guys that have worked for me for quite some time , i have gone through so many guys that have told me their journeymen when they don't even preformed to an apprentice level , i always give people the benefit of doubt usually one day i can tell but even give them one week to prove themselves starting a new job and such if it don't work out they are done. i pay top dollar because i hand pick those that work for me . i don't just put people on the job to satisfy a contractor ... it can cause to many problems and undo what took me years in my opinion to get to where i am at... I've paid my dues more than you can imagine don't want ruin my reputation on s**t work done by someone else , I think you know what i am talking about......it can take one bad job to give a contractor a bad taste and to look elsewhere can't have that happen.... there is so much to it i could never explain it .... ramble on i do



CHEERS!

:drink:


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

silverstilts said:


> No Dateline has not been here and yes the recession has hit my area as well most general contractors as well as a lot of tapers are starving for work but a few of us still remain strong and it looks like a good year so far , a lot of new projects coming up ,knock on wood right...


Good luck to ya buddy, and more power.........the forecast for my area is terribly gloomy, to be honest. im going to be as conservative to say that this year is done, and hopefully by mid 2010 i FEEL it will come back up.

thank god ive been wise enough in the past, during the real estate 'boom' to not go buy big boats and big cars like my other counterparts who are -- well, out of business.

i knew the high times werent going to last, and i cant help but saying that 'i told everyone so' but hey...look where they are.........im fortunate enough to say i'll have no problem 'surviving' through this.....but man, its just depressing nonetheless. everyday on the news its something else with the economy.

the media definitely doesnt help, and i feel that make it worse by exaggerating and overstating things to a point where average citizens go into a panic, freezing everything to a stand-still in the economy.

sigh. for those of you just barely hanging on....i commend you.......and lets keep things positive. in our life, AND on this forum especially!

hahha.....
honestly, im really glad theres a specific forum like this for us 'drywall brothers' that can band together and share frustrations as well as tips.

theres not a whole lot of people we can turn to who understand our plight in this industry. i was so pleasantly surprised when i first found this forum....people venting the EXACT same problems as i was facing, as well as sharing trade knowledge, not just throughout the u.s., but throughout the world.

not to sound cheesy or corny.....

but thanks guys, just for being here.


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## [email protected]

Custom, my rant directed at those who are screwing builders and homeowners alike, doing so and revelling in it. I don't believe your the type that closes a deal and says "Gee, I really f***ed that guy." I had a partner once who was like that and note "had". I've always done business to stay in business. I understand the differences from my market to that of others. I have no problem with somebody maximizing profitablitity. So, no, not really directing at you.

I've been stewing awhile on the "end-around" for some time as well as "those guys" cheating the workers. Been aiming to go start another thread on both, but I guess I let loose all at once.
So I wouldn't say anything on this thread set me off per se. Well except seeing hangers get paid .25 (No offense to Silver). Maybe that's what he's gotta pay. I hung for enough years to have some empathy, but .25? I hope his hangers know what the rest of the world gets and thanks him every single payday.

No one be offended by this.... By paying those rates, what happens hangers see that and then DW contractors elsewhere start to get pressure to raise footage rates. Maybe not so much right now, but the potential exists. Maybe it is same as us discussing board and mud prices here. But you get the picture. A penny here, a penny there. I don't think hanging rates in MI or Canada will affect me because I won't let it. Not now or ever.

Funny you should use that line about drywall being what you see all around you...That's almost word-for-word my quality speech I make to workers and customers alike. 

And "gloomy"... While the pace here is probably better than many other markets, it still stinks. Residential const. here has been pretty much devastated. I won't go on about it as it's too depressing.

And for market pressures from above and below, for me to go on about that borders on colusion(price fixing).

But I do indeed get great comfort on the forum. Seeing that others face similar issues and are equally minded(mostly). Corny or not, I too, thank all for being ther as well.


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## Whitey97

instead of raggin on him for paying him that, maybe you should see what that includes. I'm sure his answer may be something like, moving the sheet rock from where the stockers left it (in the garage) rock the house, scrap and sweep. That I can definitly see being paid that much for. I know I agreed with how much he pays his rockers, however that's what I charge when I do it. When I have my other guys do it, it's between .16 - .20. I really don't see anything that's wrong with that. That is what the going rate is here.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> ...So I wouldn't say anything on this thread set me off per se. Well except seeing hangers get paid .25 (No offense to Silver). Maybe that's what he's gotta pay. I hung for enough years to have some empathy, but .25? I hope his hangers know what the rest of the world gets and thanks him every single payday.
> 
> No one be offended by this.... By paying those rates, what happens hangers see that and then DW contractors elsewhere start to get pressure to raise footage rates. Maybe not so much right now, but the potential exists. Maybe it is same as us discussing board and mud prices here. But you get the picture. A penny here, a penny there. I don't think hanging rates in MI or Canada will affect me because I won't let it. Not now or ever.
> 
> Funny you should use that line about drywall being what you see all around you...That's almost word-for-word my quality speech I make to workers and customers alike...


AMEN brotha.

I'm glad to know that you and i think very much alike Darren.

That is why (no offense to stilts) i am so appalled when i hear prices like that. This is exactly what i mean when i say 'spoiling the labor market.' I've witnessed this 'animal' particularly during the boom years ago, when things were near golden. certain 'diva' hanging and finishing crews would step onto my doorstep demanding (yes demanding) that their crew be paid 'no less' than .15 cents/sf. (this is considered high btw in my market...for finishing or hanging).

yes, Darren and you are right, this is DEFINITELY not prevalent in todays market...not at all. the labor market is begging for anything they can get.....unfortunately, i just dont have any more room in my company. but its sad when you see the amount of desperation out there.

sigh, crap......man, im starting to depress myself.

ANYWAYS

Darren, yea what i said.....'OUR' speech....is exactly right. people tend to take for granted the drywall aspect of their homes....hell, i do too at times, ill admit it. some people, absolutely do NOT give a sh-t about their drywall......not one sh-t (which is annoying in itself), but for a large number of people i would LIKE to think it matters......drywall IS your house...its the most cosmetic material INSIDE your home. how it looks MATTERS.........for example, one long wall is supposed to look like ONE, long, flat wall...............not six 4 x 12 drywall panels that you can play tic tac toe on........

things like this, matter.........and its funny how really stupid homeowners..... don't even realize they're house is composed of drywall, until imperfections and flat out bad workmanship rears its ugly head. they don't even consider how 'hmmm, maybe drywall is important....lets look for a quality company to do this!!!" nope, that thought usually doesn't go thru a naive homeowners head.....but hey, you sure saved a lot of money going with Joe Blows Drywall bid didn't ya?? so things are still okay!! pat yourself on the back!!!

and maybe you can call Joe Blow Drywall to come back and fix all the sh-t that is now falling apart in your house! Hell, he'll be glaaaaad to do it.....he was SO NICE to you wasnt he, especially when he was trying to get the job??!! maybe he'll suck your di-k like last time when he fixes everything! just call him!

but wait a minute, his phone number no longer exists? that cant be, you must've dialed it wrong! maybe they moved offices or changed their number....................why...theres no way they would be out of BUSINESS, right????? Noooo...

maybe you can look up their contractors license number online...obtain their new office location and phone number that way!...........oh wait...but you just finally remembered, they aren't licensed!

wait...your a genius...you just realized you saved the signed contract agreement from Joe Blow! im sure the warranty information is on there! every company has one that guarantees its work for at least a year! its only been 6 mos., if you could only FIND that contract...where is it?

ah, wait......silly you, that day, Joe Blow, the owner said his copier was down! he couldnt print you a copy of your contract! aww, oh well....sh-t happens right? im sure your copy machine has went down on ya time to time, its understandable!

well...dont panic yet.....dont you still remember the name of his insurance carrier? oh ....waittttt a minute.....that was the OTHER drywall guy, who provided all that information himself....yea, that guy was a schmuck huh? went through all this trouble to provide me his insurances and business license, and contractor references......pshhh, you didnt need that! he was expensive anyways! 

hell, you saved 1500 bucks remember!


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## Whitey97

lol, those are all the reasons I justify charging what I do. My company has all of those things listed, besides the license, Mn doesn't require that. We're a little weird, however that's how you seperate the hacks from the hero's. Dependent on whether they have their LLC or not


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Whitey97 said:


> instead of raggin on him for paying him that, maybe you should see what that includes. I'm sure his answer may be something like, moving the sheet rock from where the stockers left it (in the garage) rock the house, scrap and sweep. That I can definitly see being paid that much for. I know I agreed with how much he pays his rockers, however that's what I charge when I do it. When I have my other guys do it, it's between .16 - .20. I really don't see anything that's wrong with that. That is what the going rate is here.


first off, any hanging crew that thinks that by 'moving sheetrock from the garage' and by sweeping up and cleaning up after themselves is doing ME a "favor".......you gotta be kidding me right? i feel this should be STANDARD for ANY crew.....i dont care how little you get paid. any smart crew around here knows this, and does this without even saying. especially people that work for me.

and God only hope thats what .25/sf will get ya. hell, for 25 cents, they better lick the floors clean.

man ******, if you can honestly say that is the 'going rate' where you are from.....boy, i really really feel bad. it may seem great to ya, but who knows how long that can last. if you have plenty of work, good for you. to me, that is unsustainable.


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## Whitey97

That's what I charge, that's what the market has allowed me to get. I don't see me lowering prices, a good business doesn't do that, from my perspective. If you want results you have to pay for it. It doesn't mean the economy isn't bad here, quite the opposite. But, H/O's and Contractors both have noted the difference between the "hacks" vs. the lagit guys and after the last 5-10 years of dealing with it, are now willing to pay for the difference. It's all about the "want it tax" That's how I see it.


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## Whitey97

Let me ask you this. If you were in the position to charge more, you wouldn't? I must be doing something correct if I'm able to charge that and "get away with it" Yeah, I have my slow times, yeah there are some gaps recently. How I see it is this. At least I'm not out there doing cheap work, just to fill my gap. I would rather sit at home, and figure out how to expand my business that do that. Or play on the computer, and read the forums! no seriously, I'm addicted to this forum


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## silverstilts

Whitey97 said:


> instead of raggin on him for paying him that, maybe you should see what that includes. I'm sure his answer may be something like, moving the sheet rock from where the stockers left it (in the garage) rock the house, scrap and sweep. That I can definitly see being paid that much for. I know I agreed with how much he pays his rockers, however that's what I charge when I do it. When I have my other guys do it, it's between .16 - .20. I really don't see anything that's wrong with that. That is what the going rate is here.


 AMEN to that ....... There is nothing worse than going into a job site that has scrap Sheetrock knee deep .... then who has to move it ... can't always wait for a labor to do it ....... why should i waste my time cleaning up a mess i didn't make.... i don't expect someone else to clean mine up either that's why we clean up after ourselves..... trust me it goes a long ways in the contractors eyes when he don't have to deal with it either.... it also shows what other quality work you do , its part of good work ethics..


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## [email protected]

Hope I didn't sound like I was raggin'. Tried to qualify my statements best I could. There are rare cases where hangers gotta tote rock depending on accessibility etc. And yes I'll pay extra for sweeping, scrapping, extra framing, laying floor paper and the like. But I certainly didn't get the impression this is the case here. My apologies if I am wrong.

But I'll stand behind my comments. My objective is not to "share the wealth" so much as it is to remain viable and be profitable. My hangers know I pay as much or more than anybody else in this market. In fact, usually more. But still, even with extras like above, for normal production houses, it'll NEVER exceed .15. My .02 on that.

On the hacks, Custom, later today I'll go start another thread on them. Have two jobs to go look at today :thumbsup: just wish they were houses instead of basement and attic finishes. Gee, now I sound greedy.


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## [email protected]

And ******, LLC doesn't make the man. The worst paying builders in the world are LLC. And I too have been a little bit if a forum junkie of late.

To be sure, I have NO problems with a guy getting all he can on a job. My premise is to make a good margin but be reasonable enough (and do stellar work) for them to refer me on to others. Their reaction to my work and price should be "Geez, that work is awesome and the were so fast and professional" not "Well they the did a great job, but I think I got gouged". It's a fine line. :rockon:


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## Whitey97

Darren, I didn't think you were raggin' at least from what I remember. I've got too many threads going  I understand what you may think about LLC where you are from, However as of Jan 1 here in Mn if you don't have at minimum an LLC you can't be a certified "drywall expert" we're trying to eliminate what is left of the hacks/illegals. I think Stilts and I just have a lot of the same opinions because we deal with the same type of crap here. It's probably not like the variable you all have to deal with. We're a little funny here in the Land of Lakes!

Correction: I did say you were raggin' on him LOL. Oh well that's what makes this forum great! we're actually adults and can carry on our opinion without the stomping of feet and folded arms.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> Hope I didn't sound like I was raggin'. Tried to qualify my statements best I could. There are rare cases where hangers gotta tote rock depending on accessibility etc. And yes I'll pay extra for sweeping, scrapping, extra framing, laying floor paper and the like. But I certainly didn't get the impression this is the case here. My apologies if I am wrong.
> 
> But I'll stand behind my comments. My objective is not to "share the wealth" so much as it is to remain viable and be profitable. My hangers know I pay as much or more than anybody else in this market. In fact, usually more. But still, even with extras like above, for normal production houses, it'll NEVER exceed .15. My .02 on that.
> 
> On the hacks, Custom, later today I'll go start another thread on them. Have two jobs to go look at today :thumbsup: just wish they were houses instead of basement and attic finishes. Gee, now I sound greedy.



never exceeding .15 cents per sf for production houses......

thank god someone finally made me not feel like my market was THAT cheap.

seriously, i was starting to wonder 'is my market this cheap??'

because ur rite darren....15 cents for production, to ME....is still out of the question.

i keep my main crew busy every day doing production houses at 8 cents, period. 12 cents for customs. 2000 board sf and under, by the hour, at 12 bucks.

my employees may not be jumping up and down and celebrating for making a 'killing' hanging houses -- but believe me, you can see it on their face every morning how absolutely fortunate they are to be working at least 35 hrs per week.

...and trust me...if your employees ARE 'jumping up and down celebrating at work" from a business owners standpoint, thats not always a 'good' thing.

i feel if your employees are 'too' satisfied and happy, somethings not rite and you're most likely being taken advantage of.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> My objective is not to "share the wealth" so much as it is to remain viable and be profitable.


oh Darren, and i forgot not to freakin pat you on the back for this statement.:thumbsup:

some people ive seen before on this site sound like they belong in europe, by the negative sentiment they have on capitalism.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Whitey97 said:


> Let me ask you this. If you were in the position to charge more, you wouldn't? I must be doing something correct if I'm able to charge that and "get away with it" Yeah, I have my slow times, yeah there are some gaps recently. How I see it is this. At least I'm not out there doing cheap work, just to fill my gap. I would rather sit at home, and figure out how to expand my business that do that. Or play on the computer, and read the forums! no seriously, I'm addicted to this forum


ur absolutely right buddy.

as long as your not hurting anyone, doing it all within legal means, more power to ya......

do you, your family, and your business first....thats how i look at it. because NO ONE else is going to care about it, but you, and you alone.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> Hope I didn't sound like I was raggin'. Tried to qualify my statements best I could. There are rare cases where hangers gotta tote rock depending on accessibility etc. And yes I'll pay extra for sweeping, scrapping, extra framing, laying floor paper and the like. But I certainly didn't get the impression this is the case here. My apologies if I am wrong.
> 
> But I'll stand behind my comments. My objective is not to "share the wealth" so much as it is to remain viable and be profitable. My hangers know I pay as much or more than anybody else in this market. In fact, usually more. But still, even with extras like above, for normal production houses, it'll NEVER exceed .15. My .02 on that.
> 
> On the hacks, Custom, later today I'll go start another thread on them. Have two jobs to go look at today :thumbsup: just wish they were houses instead of basement and attic finishes. Gee, now I sound greedy.


i honestly dont agree with Darren on paying extra for sweeing, scraping, etc.....this may be the first time we actually disagree on something hahaha...

however, i do have to agree with stilts on this.......a finisher, per se......shouldnt have to go onto the jobsite and work around a hangers mess.

lets put it this way, do you pay your gardener extra for cleaning up his lawn, bush, and weed trimmings?


and on the hacks, hahah....i cant wait .....im sure we all have stories for DAYS.

you know Darren, about basement type BS jobs and attic jobs, etc....

man, its amazing, years ago when things were TOO BUSY, i used to turn away that work on the phone on the spot............its amazing NOW the things we'll do just to keep busy.

from little patchworks....to attics........everything is work nowadays.

what i call the 'cream' work just isnt there anymore, as in new residential construction......


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## joepro0000

My main drywallers have slowed down after 18 years hanging, but the 2 man crew will take a day and half. Keep in mind this is South Florida, screw inspections, screws every 12" apart or closer in some districts. I do have a quicker 2 man crew who can do it in 6 -8 hrs, but its sloppy. I'd rather choose the regular hangers and know they will install the sheets tight, and all the screws in. I pay them hourly or by the board. Depends on the job. Always 2 man or 4 man crew.


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## [email protected]

That .15... that's if they scrap, frame, etc. My regular rate is .12 + .01 for fasteners and glue. But that's fixin' to go down .01 real soon. And used to give 'em .01 if we go out of town, say 90-120 miles but no more. I might add these guys do quite possibly the cleanest work I've ever since. Maybe cover 2 boxes in the pat 10 months. One of the big outfits here has hanging down around .08 and taping at .10 PERIOD. That's what a sign on their says I'm told.


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## eastex1963

Ok, let me get this right...they way we price work has me confused. I do it this way....Since I hang, AND finish, I charge by the sq. ft. of rock used. Ya know, 4x8 32 sq. ft. 4x12 48 sq. ft. etc. Ok. Also, I charge anywhere from .38 to .50 per sq. ft. so @ .38 that's $18.24 for every 12 footer. Average sq. ft. new const. here is oh, 2000 sq. ft. Takes around 150 12's. That makes it $2736. You're telling me, Darren, that these guys do the hanging, tape, bed, skim, texture for .18???? That's $1296....WOW. That's crazy. Even just the hanging would be more than that here. And I ain't in Houston or Dallas.....That's Tyler. And btw, my prices are below the norm. because of low overhead. (Me and 3 helpers). Now if you're talking just labor on just hang and tape, well I could believe that. Hell, I totally agree with ******, I'll sit and play at the computer and pork the old lady 2 or 3 times a day before I "pay" somebody to go do their work......and basically that's what some guys do....Hell, my wife loves me....I don't have to be gone from home just to be gone.....

BUT, I do have to go......gotta hang another one today......


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## [email protected]

Funny how it turned out yesterday...Had to flip my schedule, instead of going to an attic and basement, wound up headed the other way. Had to remeasure an upcoming job to exclude the bsmt on a custom house 90 miles away, and en route another guy in the area needed #s on a complete finish (out of the blue) and had another pretty choice job in the area to measure anyway. So what started off as a 2 turd day, wound up measuring up two houses, one of which I had no idea was coming up + adjusting count on a third. That and the DOW was up nearly 400, maybe things are gonna improve quicker after all.
Geez, if they were just 9 miles instead of 90.....


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## [email protected]

Eastex, nooooo. Am referencing the hanging only. And the guy paying .08 is Hanging only and has his hourly guys scrap. and the .10 for taping is for finishing only, not spraying nor sanding. I think that should clear it up a little. And btw .38-.50 for labor is about what most get around here for what you describe, give or take.


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## DrunkenMexican27

way to rag on that guy and demean him id love to be your guys workers and be belittled like that


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## [email protected]

Funny thing about an internet forum...never can tell if someone is smiling when they're typing sarcasm. I don't think anyone got belittled here, or I missed something. Just guys comparing things in different markets, and believe we all understand each other.


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## A+ Texture LLC

DrunkenMexican27 said:


> way to rag on that guy and demean him id love to be your guys workers and be belittled like that


Maybe your drunk and don't know what the hell your talkin about.


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## A+ Texture LLC

Hey drunko, I just saw your a new member. Welcome to the site. Always glad to guide a newby through the fire and brimstone. Pretty good first post.


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## DrunkenMexican27

yep real drunk 
but i guess i can hang rock better when im drunk 
sliding my tape across my fingers
calling everyone reggins
then getting paid like a mad man 
5 dollars an hour wooooooooo


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## rckslash2010

DrunkenMexican27 said:


> yep real drunk
> but i guess i can hang rock better when im drunk
> sliding my tape across my fingers
> calling everyone reggins
> then getting paid like a mad man
> 5 dollars an hour wooooooooo


Sounds like somebody I used to know, they were overpaid though. ( At $4.50 an hour)


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

DrunkenMexican27 said:


> yep real drunk
> but i guess i can hang rock better when im drunk
> sliding my tape across my fingers
> calling everyone reggins
> then getting paid like a mad man
> 5 dollars an hour wooooooooo


No offense man, but being drunk while working is not funny to me, esp as a business owner.

I cant tell you how nervous that makes me as a business owner while i am paying workers comp and disability, etc. for my employees. to be under the influence while working (especially hanging) is that LAST thing i need.

show up on the job sober, or dont come in at all.

and if you cant work sober, you may have your own issues to deal with.

bottomline, i have a hard enough time as it is running a business and 'babysitting' my employees.

i remember a story back in the day of a hanger working on a scaffold, 16' high (thank god it wasnt one of my guys).

the poor bastard was drunk, and fell off the scaffold.

died.


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## A+ Texture LLC

You must be drunk to be so happy about $5 an hour. I don't get the reggins thing? Please elaborate. Is that a Ronald Reagan thing?


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## rckslash2010

A+ Texture LLC said:


> I don't get the reggins thing? Please elaborate. Is that a Ronald Reagan thing?


Spell it backwards.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

5 bucks an hour?

you guys arent serious right?

...



my state min wage is 8 bucks an hour right now..........please tell me u guys are joking @ 5 an hour, hahahaha.

hell, even i know thats cheap!


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## mudhen

here in canada the price does vary from province to province,but typically for boarding/ hanging its about 25 cents per board foot ,hourly is imbetween 25 and 32 an hour.I am a finisher and am currently working at 25 cents per foot for taping,5 cents for sanding and 80 cents per foot of bead they supply, i read someones post on here where they had said there hangers work for an average of 11 dollars per hour ,if so OUCH how do theese people even put food on there table here 11 an hour is starting wage for a completely green guy fresh out of high school.recession wise has there been some states that have prevailed over others?or has everything been equally hit?


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## [email protected]

It's pretty $#itty here in the mid-west. Some competitors are paying less than .08 to hang and less than .10 to finish. But that's only part ofthe disparity between here and Canada, the difference in the two's dollars and the higher taxes in Canada make up a huge part of the difference, coupled with the cost of living. But some guys around here are about to starve out. And aside from a warm-weather/tax-refund bump of late, it's not gonna get better soon. Am myself being forced to lower labor yet again this month.


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## A+ Texture LLC

rckslash2010 said:


> Spell it backwards.


arty: I must be pretty dumb.


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## super rocker

I am amused by Custom Drywall .He obviously is not a drywall contractor, but a delusional egomaniac. If anything he said was true, he would not be hiding behind his computer and tell us who he is or where he is. If he has a stellar repution, he would happily tell all of us amateurs how to become drywall tycoons. I am wondering how many illegals he has and if he has unlimited access to all "drywall professionals ' in Mexico. I would gladly pay large sums of money to see Mr. Custom 's creative accounting and one of his beautiful drywall jobs. I am eager to see your next load of crap.


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## silverstilts

super rocker said:


> I am amused by Custom Drywall .He obviously is not a drywall contractor, but a delusional egomaniac. If anything he said was true, he would not be hiding behind his computer and tell us who he is or where he is. If he has a stellar repution, he would happily tell all of us amateurs how to become drywall tycoons. I am wondering how many illegals he has and if he has unlimited access to all "drywall professionals ' in Mexico. I would gladly pay large sums of money to see Mr. Custom 's creative accounting and one of his beautiful drywall jobs. I am eager to see your next load of crap.


 Egomaniac , Perhaps he is , so am I . there is something good to say about that , what do you think is the drive behind someone successful in their business ? If you don't have an ego and just sit by the sidelines you will not be successful ... It is the stupidity and ignorance of some that just because someone in the same field succeeds and you don't there are reasons.... nothing comes for free .... ya got to have some brass balls and not be jealous just because you don't have the drive..... give me some money and you can see my work and my accounting ....... in turn i would like to see your work only....we would see whats what than.... You have one post only and you start off by slamming us.... come on get a few posts under your belt first....


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## silverstilts

DrunkenMexican27 said:


> yep real drunk
> but i guess i can hang rock better when im drunk
> sliding my tape across my fingers
> calling everyone reggins
> then getting paid like a mad man
> 5 dollars an hour wooooooooo


 If you are serious I'd can you before you even started , and when someone talks or says things like you have there is always a certain amount of truth to it , kinda like bragging that your a drunk ,,, wouldn't be to proud of that..


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

super rocker said:


> I am amused by Custom Drywall .He obviously is not a drywall contractor, but a delusional egomaniac. If anything he said was true, he would not be hiding behind his computer and tell us who he is or where he is. If he has a stellar repution, he would happily tell all of us amateurs how to become drywall tycoons. I am wondering how many illegals he has and if he has unlimited access to all "drywall professionals ' in Mexico. I would gladly pay large sums of money to see Mr. Custom 's creative accounting and one of his beautiful drywall jobs. I am eager to see your next load of crap.


well first off....

yes i am a drywall contractor.

and no i do not hire illegals. is that saying i dont have hispanics employed at my business? hell no. my business is full of em.

but are they all 100% legal......damn right.

and if youd like to see my work, please visit my website.

www.customdrywallservice.com

and if i was an egomaniac, i wouldve displayed that website 200 plus posts ago........but i havnt.

thank you. maybe after 200 posts ill start taking you serious.

and stilts is right....if you arent an egomaniac, than wtf are you. everyone is my friend.

but you either use it to your advantage or let it ruin you to the ground.

ive never stated i was a drywall tycoon 'super rocker'.....all i can do is share what methods have made our business succesful...thats all.

and you call me an egomaniac? ....with a name like 'super rocker?'

you gotta be the best hanger God created perhaps, i dunno.

go head super rocker.....view my work.....im waiting for you to tell me next how my work is sh-t.....and 'a load of crap'........please.

i bet youre going to tell me next that the pictures on my website are fake.


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## [email protected]

You tell em Custom. All us DCs got egos for sure or we be sheep. Sounded like Super rocker got a few sour grapes. I hear a whaaambulance coming.


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## LadyFinisher

Thanks Custom, I always like anyone who calls it like they see it. And even if you have been in business 1yr or a 100 yrs, input is great you can always learn from others. I would like to thank everyone who makes vaulable comments that help myself and others.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Thanks Lady....you too Darren....and you TOO Stilts....

dont think we'll be seein "super rocker" around awhile.....he probably clicked on my website and swallowed his tongue and sh-t his pants.


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## brdn_drywall

your site looks pretty impressive custom beautiful textures in the first few photos on the homepage, when will it be completed for viewing.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

brdn_drywall said:


> your site looks pretty impressive custom beautiful textures in the first few photos on the homepage, when will it be completed for viewing.


thanks Brdn.....

im doing the website on my own so its been a slow-build over the course of a few months i believe....just adding / editing stuff when i have a lazy sunday here and there you know.

main thing i wanted to put up were the images of the homes we've done, for future, potential customers.

i appreciate the input greatly brdn, thank you!!


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## rckslash2010

Whats wrong with having a couple beers at work? I used to do it all the time, just a couple though, usually while scraping out.


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## [email protected]

rckslash2010 said:


> Whats wrong with having a couple beers at work? I used to do it all the time, just a couple though, usually while scraping out.


I used to go get the crew a 6 or 12 pack at days end, on occasion. Until I found out that I could be legally responsible for any accident they be involved in on their way home, and sued for resulting damages. Long shot? Yep. But you never know. And some builders or buyers will throw a fit at the site of alcohol on the job.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

[email protected] said:


> I used to go get the crew a 6 or 12 pack at days end, on accasion. Until I found out that I could be legally responsible for any accident they be involved in on their way home, and sued for resulting damages. Long shot? Yep. But you never know. And some builders or buyers will throw a fit at the site of alcohol on the job.


i agree.

i USED to do the same thing until the very reasons you pointed out Darren..


BUUUUUUUT......i still occassionally do this........i cant help it if i have my crew bust their hump for me on a saturday AND sunday to get a big job done for me and NOT buy em a 12 or 24 pack of bud light on their last couple hrs....

we all know how this works


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## Mcex-boarder

I have been a drywall installer for 23 years,and I have seen those prices,20 to 25 cents a foot,what I am having a hard time with is that in 23 years I have never seen a 2 man crew board 8000 sq ft of board in a day,the usual for a house that size is 2-3 days,lets say 2 and a half average,2000 sq ft living space times 3.8=7600 sq ft=1900 dollars,1900 divided by 2 = 900$ per man minus gas,nails and screws,lets say 850$ per man for 2-3 days work,this is the reality of a drywall boarder,three years ago that is,and dont forget these days that may be all the work you have this week,not a good living at all,dont forget to cut back on the booze and crack a bit and pay your taxes,I have been a real straight lace in the biz,no drink,no drugs,pay my guys,expenses,and taxes,at the end of the day it's not a good living,even in a dream world of 25 cents a foot


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## jonas drywall

I have been a hanger for 15 yrs. and I do 20,000. to 40,000 sq. ft. per week. And let me tell you this. What I do for the guys that subs me my work is worth more than .25 per ft., I charge .23 per ft. And employ 14 hangers. I carry insurance W.C & G. L.... we get the done so fast Its worth it. If you break it down rock cost .18 per ft. mud,tape, cost .04 per ft - hangers get .23 per ft. I dont know what you get but we get $1.10 per sq. ft. now you take .45 per ft. you have .65 per ft. to finsh a house. So what you are saying its ok to get .65 per ft. to finsh but .25 is to much for hangers. You have it wrong if you are to high you have to many people sitting at desk. And not working... Keep in mind we 2 yrs ago. we got .26 per ft and did close to 15,000 to 20,000 per day but I also had 21 hangers at the time. I dont know if this matters but we all are white boys. We glue and screw everything. I dont allow nails on my jobs. Only mex use nails around here.......


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## jonas drywall

Mcex-boarder said:


> I have been a drywall installer for 23 years,and I have seen those prices,20 to 25 cents a foot,what I am having a hard time with is that in 23 years I have never seen a 2 man crew board 8000 sq ft of board in a day,the usual for a house that size is 2-3 days,lets say 2 and a half average,2000 sq ft living space times 3.8=7600 sq ft=1900 dollars,1900 divided by 2 = 900$ per man minus gas,nails and screws,lets say 850$ per man for 2-3 days work,this is the reality of a drywall boarder,three years ago that is,and dont forget these days that may be all the work you have this week,not a good living at all,dont forget to cut back on the booze and crack a bit and pay your taxes,I have been a real straight lace in the biz,no drink,no drugs,pay my guys,expenses,and taxes,at the end of the day it's not a good living,even in a dream world of 25 cents a foot


 
If 2 guys can do that I want them...


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## super rocker

I am confused by your post. One hanger CAN NOT hang 20000-40000 s. f. of board in one week. If one man hangs 10000 s.f. per week , consider your self lucky. I have been hanging for 38 years and I have seen them all. No one can hang 400-800 12' sheets per week. Impossible. Are you really getting $1.10 per s.f.? Wow. In the Chicago metro area , we are lucky to get $.80. If you are doing commercial work up here we might get $1.10. If you are getting that kind of money for residential, please post your phone number so I can move. Your point about tapers is right on. 99% of all tapers are pussies who think THEIR job is more important than ours. Every thing they do is exactly the same every time. The reason they think they are worth so much is because almost all drywall contractors are tapers. Therefore, they "deserve" more. The only difference between the best taper and the worst is their conscience. It is not an "art" like they tell you. The methods are exactly the same EVERY time. If any fool decides he wants a "career" in drywall, take my advice and become a taper. Very little physical labor,get all the praise, and be grossly over paid.


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## silverstilts

super rocker said:


> I am confused by your post. One hanger CAN NOT hang 20000-40000 s. f. of board in one week. If one man hangs 10000 s.f. per week , consider your self lucky. I have been hanging for 38 years and I have seen them all. No one can hang 400-800 12' sheets per week. Impossible. Are you really getting $1.10 per s.f.? Wow. In the Chicago metro area , we are lucky to get $.80. If you are doing commercial work up here we might get $1.10. If you are getting that kind of money for residential, please post your phone number so I can move. Your point about tapers is right on. 99% of all tapers are pussies who think THEIR job is more important than ours. Every thing they do is exactly the same every time. The reason they think they are worth so much is because almost all drywall contractors are tapers. Therefore, they "deserve" more. The only difference between the best taper and the worst is their conscience. It is not an "art" like they tell you. The methods are exactly the same EVERY time. If any fool decides he wants a "career" in drywall, take my advice and become a taper. Very little physical labor,get all the praise, and be grossly over paid.


 you must think that you are a god or something , I agree that hanging board can be difficult and demanding on the body , but you are wrong on the taping isn't an art . If it is such a pussy job maybe you should make life easy on yourself and start finishing , we all know better than that there is a good reason you don't .....taping not only involves great skill but also one has to have great agility and speed.... also have to fix all the f-ups behind hangers that don't care what they leave behind ... ( hang some board if it's not done right so what the taper will fix it , heard that so many times ) sure not all rockers are hacks but they are far and few in between or the most part most don't need a whole lot of common sense just a strong back and a weak mind , I do hand it to all of you hangers out there that know there stuff and do a quality job and make it look easy , but don't expect to come on here and slam the finishers without consequences its hangers like you and your attitudes that don,t care what they leave behind cause us finish guys to have to clean up your mess and make something out of nothing .......


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## Mcex-boarder

To who ever wrote they do 40,000 sq ft a week and employ 14 hangers,that's only 2857 sq ft per man per week,my earlier responce was that all lies and bragging aside,in 23 years have not seen a 2 man crew board 8000 sq feet a day,when I had my long term best partner,providing top quality boarding,and perfect synchronicity between us, we averaged 4000 sq feet a day and had a top reputation,and weather your taping or hanging,or even insulating for that matter,it's all hard work,just different styles of hard work,99 per cent of my work has been hanging but have veered off just long enough into other areas to learn to not mock the other guys for having it easy,try working all day with your stilts cranked right to the top and tell me it's easier than boarding,I learned my lesson.


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## Muddauber

super rocker said:


> I am confused by your post. One hanger CAN NOT hang 20000-40000 s. f. of board in one week. If one man hangs 10000 s.f. per week , consider your self lucky. I have been hanging for 38 years and I have seen them all. No one can hang 400-800 12' sheets per week. Impossible. Are you really getting $1.10 per s.f.? Wow. In the Chicago metro area , we are lucky to get $.80. If you are doing commercial work up here we might get $1.10. If you are getting that kind of money for residential, please post your phone number so I can move. Your point about tapers is right on. 99% of all tapers are pussies who think THEIR job is more important than ours. Every thing they do is exactly the same every time. The reason they think they are worth so much is because almost all drywall contractors are tapers. Therefore, they "deserve" more. The only difference between the best taper and the worst is their conscience. It is not an "art" like they tell you. The methods are exactly the same EVERY time. If any fool decides he wants a "career" in drywall, take my advice and become a taper. Very little physical labor,get all the praise, and be grossly over paid.





Very little physical labor? Huh!
Obviously you have never held a bazooka over your head all day, pushed a sand pole all day, dragged a pole gun with 150' of hose around all day, or as Mcex said, walked on 42" stilts all day. There is more to the job than walking around with a 6" knife spotting screws.
I've been in drywall 36 years now and have been both hanger and finisher. They are both very demanding on the body and I like Silver have the highest respect for a skilled hanger. No finisher can do a top quality job behind a board butcher.
Hangers and finishers should be working as a team to turn out a quality product, not crying like a baby about who has the easier job.



Finishing an " art " ? Yes it is. Try making a long 45 angle look straight when the framing is screwed up, or do a repair on a textured wall or ceiling and blend it in to where it doesn't show. How about drywalling over door openings in a remodel.How long does it take you to cut a 36"x 82" piece and stick it? A finisher will spend hours on it to where no one would ever know it had been patched.


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## [email protected]

Taping pays more because it takes more days/trips. Hangers get through in less than half the time, and yes it is more brutal. But that said, as a DC whose trade was hanging, without top-notch hangers AND top-notch finishers, it's just a battle every day. Also need a top-notch spray / touch-up man unless you can be everywhere at once....that is if you have the volume.


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## jonas drywall

super rocker said:


> I am confused by your post. One hanger CAN NOT hang 20000-40000 s. f. of board in one week. If one man hangs 10000 s.f. per week , consider your self lucky. I have been hanging for 38 years and I have seen them all. No one can hang 400-800 12' sheets per week. Impossible. Are you really getting $1.10 per s.f.? Wow. In the Chicago metro area , we are lucky to get $.80. If you are doing commercial work up here we might get $1.10. If you are getting that kind of money for residential, please post your phone number so I can move. Your point about tapers is right on. 99% of all tapers are pussies who think THEIR job is more important than ours. Every thing they do is exactly the same every time. The reason they think they are worth so much is because almost all drywall contractors are tapers. Therefore, they "deserve" more. The only difference between the best taper and the worst is their conscience. It is not an "art" like they tell you. The methods are exactly the same EVERY time. If any fool decides he wants a "career" in drywall, take my advice and become a taper. Very little physical labor,get all the praise, and be grossly over paid.


 
You didnt read my post right. I do that with 14 man crew. And Yes I have guys on my crew that hangs over 10000. per week. If we have a flat 8ft house or a stand up job they better hang 4000 to 5000 between 2 guys. Or I dont make my bike payment. Now if you are in a cut up house or doing fire topping. Then it slows them down. But I have a crazy good crew I havent had to train anyone in yrs. I guess im lucky.. And as far as finshers its like this, I also finsh And there is no more art involed at all. I can run all the tools. I do have to say if you hang the job right its the same. But if you shim out walls and lids when they need it. cut angles tight, do 45 angles, to do a coffen the right way. There is as much art involved. Im sure you have finshed behind some hacks. Its not nice... But finshers do work just as hard. It kills my back to walk on stilts all day. Or run a box on lids for 3 hrs.


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## Quality1st

*To Superrocker*

F U Buddy, nuff said


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## super rocker

This issue has been around forever about the tug of war between tapers and hangers. We do work in concert, but the frustration about lack of respect and less pay has always perplexed me. I have hung for approximately 20 taping contractors and they all want things done differently. When I started hanging for one guy, I asked him if he wanted any thing specific done. He said I knew a hell of a lot more about hanging than he did , so just do it. That's what I'm talking about. He never asked about the price and ALWAYS thanked me. What a great guy. Very few are like Darrell. It's too bad he retired. He was truly grateful, but sadly he's in a tiny minority. If you tapers have a good hanger don't dismiss the effort and commitment he has made to making your job mush easier. If some of you are following amateurs, why tolerate it? I am one hanger who has a very weak back, but a slightly stronger mind.


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## Quality1st

*Monkeys can do it*

Myself i alaways find the best rockers in the area, and pay them more than anyone else. Even if its out of my end. I,m alaways the best quality finisher whereever i am, so its a good fit. Majority of rockers are real lazy and selfish. Areas that take time are usually the most abused, If they have to get on their knees to hang a peice, its really gonna be slammed. It doesn,t really take any more time to cut a peice right the first time, If! you,re a top rocker and have pride in your work and respect for the finisher behind you, and the homeowner. Who will end up paying 3 times the original cost on a 30yr mortgage. Any areas they have to get on their knees once, i have to get down 3 times. 4 times with the prefill to fix their ****. Good rockers are cherished and the rest should be **** on. If i was a big bad ass, i would have fought all the monkeys.Had a mentor tool pusher in the old days, and if a rocker abused his rock, he,d hunt him down immeadiately and make a believer out of him. Tough bastard was only 5ft7 and would fight 2 monsters at a time, and make short work of it. Needless to say he was highly skilled fighter and was ruthless. He,d poke em in the eyes, punch em the throat, take a bow for th crowd and then break or damage their instep. Push em off their feet and look at the next monster in line. True story. Anyway, love a craftsman, hate arrogant ,selfish monkeys. Nuff Said:thumbup:


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## S&SDRYWALL

Taping is not an art? ha, go get yourself some mesh tape and hot mud and "finish" some quality jobs, tool


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## super rocker

Quite an articulate post. I know at least 100 tapers and none of them has ever used mesh tape. Because you use it and hot mud makes you an "artist"? Some qualifications. I know you guys use this as a ploy to boost your image, but repetition does not make your job an "art" or a science. There is no challenge or thinking to taping. I will repeat this until the day I die. The ONLY difference between a poor taper and a great taper is their conscience. Don't kid your self to believe you are any thing more than any other tradesman. Pure bull****. You guys have been pampered from day one and are like petulant children because you are "artists". If you don't believe that , I ask you if there are more good tapers or more good hangers? Ithink you will say more good tapers because it much easier to master. If you say there are more good hangers , then I say you are full of crap. By reading this site I would guess most tapers have issues with their hangers. So please tell me again who is the artist?


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## jonas drywall

S&SDRYWALL said:


> Taping is not an art? ha, go get yourself some mesh tape and hot mud and "finish" some quality jobs, tool


 
Mesh Tape really. Is that what they tell you to use on THIS OLD HOUSE...
I could of read it in one of them do it yourself books.... 

Not that its bad but you couldnt pay me to have that on a job.. I only want to do the job once..


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## Quality1st

*Ha Ha"*

Figured they,d jump on me ,but they,re all over you S and S. By the way you never returned my e-message. No art huh? I can take the most intricate house and finish it smoothwall good enough to be painted in high gloss automotive oil. Or turn all the walls to look like cultured stone, with fossils inlaid in the texture, if i choose. We,re all just skilled labor and what makes a craftsman is what,s in his heart. Do every project like it was for your mother, and put a little love in it. Otherwise it just a job and your work is just average, or just sucks. Sorry for my arrogance but i,ve done that on every job i,ve done in 30 yrs and alaways will. Put my work up against anybody anywhere, that,s not brag, it just means i put my all in to it. Okay come and get me now. By the way i acceppt all quality challenges with large bets involved. Need the money. Giddyup:yes:


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## S&SDRYWALL

I am pretty sure you took it the wrong way jonas, I do not use mesh tape, I only do new construction homes. I was telling you, to go get some hot mud, and mesh tape and "think" you know how to properly finish drywall. 

Of course it looks good to you, you don't know any better. But for you to say any idiot can go tape a house, that is true, because any idiot can, but I havent met a drywaller that can properly finish thats an idiot. Ive seen plenty of butch jobs, and I wont touch them, like I said, I do NEW construction, Not remodel w/ new sheetrock. I started doing remodels and small patch jobs, now im finishing 650 sheets a week, consistantly, with 3 guys! I dont need more than a 3 man crew, We are liked, and have an amazing reputation, I dont struggle for work, it comes to me.


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## Whitey97

Now this turned into a good thread.. hell yeah guys! *fight *fight *fight!


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

wow...what the heck happened here?

i just popped my head in since my last post on here -- damn.....?


my take, hangers vs. finishers...

i think i briefly read how anyone can hang a house.......or anyone can tape a house....or both.

'yes' anyone can hang a house....if you are strong enough, etc.

but that doesnt mean it is hung 'well.' yes anyone can scrap together and nail sheetrock, but to do it intelligently is an ART in its own right. meaning, measuring, cutting, landing, and 'puzzling' each piece in a strategic enough fashion to avoid problems down the line due to movement, etc.......i.e., 'picture framing' exterior doors, windows, etc....things like this make a GOOD hanger.

on the flipside, as far 'anyone' can hang a house........take most DIY'ers, they can 'hang' a house, but when it comes to taping / finishing, they'll call a professional (usually). However, this isn't my argument on 'which is easier,' i'll get to that in a second.

now, my OWN experience....i used to hang drywall, but am the first to admit that i was too small, and not strong enough.......so i picked up a pan and knife (still, this isnt my argument as to WHICH is easier...i will get to that soon).

Finishing was less strenuous on my body surely than hanging all day.

that is....until i learned how to tape. Specifically....until i started using a full bazooka. yup.

As others have pointed out, if you think finishing is 'easy' than no, you have not used a full bazooka all day.......

as far as upper body arm / shoulder / back strength.....damn.....goddamn that bazooka, hahah....

bottom line: BOTH hanging and finishing suck, period.

BOTH inflict tremendous wear and tear on your body over years and years.

EACH have its pros and cons.........yes, hanging MAY be more difficult on the body...........but then again, you are not making as much trips back and forth over a longer period of time than that finisher who has to complete the house......

and YES, ABSOLUTELY taping / finishing is an ART..........AS IS a good hang job.

So, honestly this is the only answer there is people: they are both equally difficult.

I don't think there is much more that needs to be said honestly, this is the gist of it in a nutshell.

I feel the only people who can relate to what i'm saying, is the people who have done BOTH.

...and it is clear who these people are.


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## Whitey97

yeah, well taping pays better!


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## S&SDRYWALL

b/c there is more "art" involved


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## Whitey97

I like to just think it's because you're there longer and you're responsible for fixing everyones crap behind you.


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## d-rock

*holy cow !!!*

in nyc, on ultra high end jobs, like park ave. etc, i get $3 s.f. supplied hung and finished. on typical commercial jobs we were getting $2, now it's going for roughly $1 to 1.50. before the recession, in the suburbs outfits were getting 1.50. now there are crews of 'illegals' doing it for .80- everyone wants to kill them. Right now, in this economy anything is possible,prices are back to the 1980's. GC's are taking bids from legitimate subs and squeezing them by getting bids from the hacks as well. As the economy gets better, the hacks will slip back into obscurity. And for the record I agree with Stilts, if he's got it like that, and he can take care of his subs, why not ? when he needs them they will jump. In nyc i can't get a good carpenter for under 20- 25 an hour, and that's in this economy. they'd rather stay home and collect unemployment. a foreman costs 250 a day.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

*"Up Front: Stupid Prices" by Mark Fowler*

http://www.wconline.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000674684

Some of you who subscribe to this magazine (Walls & Ceilings) may have already seen / read this...

Either way, pass it along. I know I will.


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## Peon-Boarder

if a crew is boarding a 2000 sf house in 8 hours you should atleast check them for steroids or somthing.


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## eastex1963

Peon-Boarder said:


> if a crew is boarding a 2000 sf house in 8 hours you should atleast check them for steroids or somthing.


Depends on the size of the crew....have seen 4000 sf house done in 6 hours. Fairly decent job too. (14 on the crew) 2 spoke english..


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## Capt-sheetrock

eastex1963 said:


> Depends on the size of the crew....have seen 4000 sf house done in 6 hours. Fairly decent job too. (14 on the crew) 2 spoke english..


Here come the Mexicns
Here come the Mexicans
Across the border fence
Their gonna take your job from you 
And work for 50 cents

(sung to the tune of Here come's Sant Claus)


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## rebel20

eastex1963 said:


> Depends on the size of the crew....have seen 4000 sf house done in 6 hours. Fairly decent job too. (14 on the crew) 2 spoke english..


Gee thats about 4 sheets an hour per man they must of been hoppen


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## MN Wall

Ok Im new to this forum, I read through the first page of this topic and skimed the last page.

I for one am a big supporter of fare wages for a Journeyman or some one with at least four years of real experiance. I come from the commercial world. Here in the Twin Cities if you are Union, Carpenters and Lathers do the Fraiming and the rocking, tapers finish. on the other hand there is "framers" and there is "rockers".....There are rockers that are scared of framing and only know how to rock....and there are "FRAMERS" that only frame because they are "to good" to rock....what you get is poor framing and poor rocking... Then there is guys like me that have framed just about every type of framing there is and have rocked all his own work...what I'm getting at is, in order to be a good rocker, you need to be a good framer at the same time. Then there are "tapers" and plasterers. they think they can do eachothers work but in all reality cant. Either way I havnt met a one that isnt a winer. 
I take alot of pride in my work and in every thing I do. So I for one feel like I'm worth $30-$35 an hour. I have worked for $15-$25 for a freind as a faver. But I dont care who you are, if you have a Car payment, insurance(personal/medical/buisiness),a mortgage, kids,spouse, and utility bills, to name a few. There is no way a guy can make it at the wages "Custom SVC" is paying. I made $12on check, starting as an aprrentice in '98. I made $8 working at a golf course in high school. For One in the past year I have made less money than I ver have due to be undercut for $.18ft or the $10hr guy. For two I can't (and currentlyam not able too) make it with any thing less than $800-$1200 a week. To make $400-$500 a week is just a kick in the shorts to me. 
When I hire help I pay no less than $12 fior a guy that has somewhat of a head on his sholders and can take directions, I pay $15 for a guy that half assed knows what he is doin, and I pay $20-30/or $.25ft (depending on the job)for a guy that has been doing this for a while and knows what he is doing. JourneymanTapers get paid $30hr or buy the foot. at least $.40.

Paying $8-$15, or $.11-$.18ft, and hiring mexicans is why our econamy is in the crapper. Of course its OK to for the owner to make 6 figures but he'll be dambed if his guys make a good living and barley get by.

From what I here alot of the mexicans are heading back wich is good for us but do we have to work for there wages now?

Sorry if I came across a little strong, I just had to rant for a min.

forgot to add, for "sheets a day" for the theread topic. Ive worked in Idaho, Washington, MN, and WI, Out west they want 20-30 Sheets a day per guy 60-70 per 2 guys, Around here 15-30 per guy is good. I never got over how conserned they were our west about the sheet count though, but thats how they picked throught there guys. and that is why they called me back out there after I came home. Working here has never realy been about a sheet count as long as you were getting some thing done and did good work. I have never had complaints about my quality or speed.


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## drywall guy158

:thumbsup: I agree with you 100% !!!!!!!!!

send all the mexicans back to where they came from !

I will not touch a finishing job for less than .32 sq foot + materials !


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## Stinger

I'm am surprised to see that so many are surprised to believe that .25 is such a big deal. Board goes cheap in southern states. I have worked in Nevada, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, and now reside in Michigan. Times are tough hear. I think we got the highest unemployment rate in the nation or one of em. I left Vegas in the 90's getting .08/hang and .15 finish while Michigan was.25/hang and .35finish. I've hung for production company's here that pay .10 per foot and they supply all, but .25 -.35 per foot/hang is what my bids are at since I moved here in the early 90's. Right now, while times are tough, I just watched a 150,000' job go for .20 a foot and every local contractor that bid it is bent out of shape because a company came from the southern half of the state for 2/3 the price. So regardless of what makes since, it exists! The only reason it went that cheap is because companies in the metro part of MI near Detroit have had a lot of "those" guys in the area for the past 10 years and they are driving the prices down from what some call a spoiled market. Hey lets all go down to .10 per foot to satisfy the market on a nationwide basis, maybe that will make more sense for you? I'm thinking about doing jobs for free until I can starve out everyone of those companies that hire "those" guys. After all, if we don't become proactive in doing something to protect the market we'll all be down on our prices


----------



## aschnit

*what?*

stinger... you start out your little argument "rant thing" arguing that .25 and .35 cents a foot for hanging and taping isn't or shouldn't be thought of as a big deal... *meaning or at least what i think you mean to be that thats a fair price to hang and tape, which i agree with.* But to end your argument by saying you're going to start working for free to get rid of illegals... or hacks... or whatever the case may be is completely ridiculous and asinine. 

What would you honestly expect to happen if you started that trend? What would you expect a GC to say when you told him you were raising your price from free to something reasonable? Don't you think he might say something like "Well in that case, I'm gonna go out and get a few other bids"? 

I guess my bottom line is that its amazing to see... almost everyday... what kind of amazing thinkers this industry (drywall in particular) seems to draw attention from. Think before you speak, or type in this case, and both think and speak before you act. And if you're simply not capable of thinking that clearly... don't go and find a job and convince someone you're capable of doing it with your pricing when you clearly aren't. 

Don't ruin the reputation of the drywaller for the rest of us trying like hell out there to do a good job and even make a buck or two (hell even a little profit once in a while can't be a bad thing) and maintain ours (reputation).


----------



## Stinger

aschnit said:


> stinger... you start out your little argument "rant thing" arguing that .25 and .35 cents a foot for hanging and taping isn't or shouldn't be thought of as a big deal... *meaning or at least what i think you mean to be that thats a fair price to hang and tape, which i agree with.* But to end your argument by saying you're going to start working for free to get rid of illegals... or hacks... or whatever the case may be is completely ridiculous and asinine.
> 
> What would you honestly expect to happen if you started that trend? What would you expect a GC to say when you told him you were raising your price from free to something reasonable? Don't you think he might say something like "Well in that case, I'm gonna go out and get a few other bids"?
> 
> I guess my bottom line is that its amazing to see... almost everyday... what kind of amazing thinkers this industry (drywall in particular) seems to draw attention from. Think before you speak, or type in this case, and both think and speak before you act. And if you're simply not capable of thinking that clearly... don't go and find a job and convince someone you're capable of doing it with your pricing when you clearly aren't.
> 
> Don't ruin the reputation of the drywaller for the rest of us trying like hell out there to do a good job and even make a buck or two (hell even a little profit once in a while can't be a bad thing) and maintain ours (reputation).


aschnit, I guess is what I did was posted a reply and not a qoute to a topic that started out on the first page not realizing there were several pages of stuff in between. But yah, I charge .25-.35 hang labor only in an area that allows for it without question. Seems like the 1st page or so thought that was ignorant high or something. I know the thought of working for free sounds foolish and I have not done it. It has crossed my mind at times when work was tight and some illegals or cut-throats came around to do local work and I knew I was going to sit home because of it. I agree with how ridiculous that would look in the eyes of a GC as well and it probably wont ever happen. But I know for sure that a fight fire with fire mentality would put the hurtin on low-ballers and cut-throats. Sad thing is your right, it would just bring prices down and make them hard to get back up. But some of these companies don't seem to care about keeping prices down. As for me not thinking before I speak, take your own advice because you don't know my capabilities or reputation when you remark about me not being able to do a job with my pricing. And a guy who has to ask how to approach contractors because he just started in business giving me advice would be a better description of what asinine means, not me wanting to starve a cut-throat. I may be a junior member but I am not a junior business owner. I happen to be set up good and do nice work. I know for sure that if I wanted to jump on the cut-throat wagon, I could put a hurtin on a lot of guys in my area and still make good money compared to the way some of them are set up, but I don't. I just get frustrated holding out while others stoop to this level, that's all. Oh, by the way, why is it that whenever somebody post something another guy don't like it get's called an "argument" or "rant"? This site is for us to post our ideas and opinions no matter how strong they may be.


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## truesprocket

*con man*

Where do you live? nova scotia ? newfoundland ? you'r terrable no one should work for you a $15 max! you sound like the Danforth basement repair crew in toronto ontario for experienced $22 & up in the union over $32 & some are worth it & if thats the going rate in you area then the recession must have hit you'r area worst than EVERY where else, just another guy's apinion!


Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> okay, then they are subcontracted...........still....a few questions:
> 
> Why are you subconracting your hanging, may i ask? you dont have hangers employed underneath you that you can pay whatever wage you want?
> 
> if you are operating a business as a drywall subcontractor, then do you act as a 'drywall general' and subcontract everything out, i.e. hanging, finishing, texturing? if the answer is 'yes' then why are you in business then? -- you are paying retail prices arent you? Where im from......25 cents per sf for hanging......is what i would charge a CUSTOMER of mine....thats, labor ALONE.
> 
> stilts, trust me....i don't want to offend you, criticize you, let alone tell you how to run your business.....but you are the one getting price gouged my friend......ASSUMING i'm correct (i still feel im missing your entire picture here, and things are just easily lost in translation on here for obvious reasons and that i'm missing a few key pts).
> 
> to second what Darren said above, yea stilts...if this business model IS working for you, and you can make a decent profit on it -- good.......great actually.
> 
> my opinion (and btw you're right, it is my opinion only...im glad you respect and acknowledge that) is that...the range you talk above as being 'okay,' in your area, 30 -25 per hour.....
> 
> THAT'S quite a shocker. Where i operate..........lets put it this way, if a hanger came into my office looking for employment....and stated on his application that he was accustomed to making over $30 bucks an hour.....there's not one second of hesitation where i, or even my head foreman would tell the guy to take a hike.
> 
> and in times like this??? that would be pure OFFENSIVE to ask for that much per hour.
> 
> i've never even seen a 'whiteboy' (no offense to anyone) demand more than 25 per hour......and STILL, thats laughable.
> 
> currently in my office (where i am typing this -- yea its that slow hahaha).......behind me, i got two folders stacked full with at least 40 apps each.........most of them hangers....about 25% of them finishers.
> 
> anyways, i'll tell you right now stilts......i have a section on my app that reads 'desired wage: ____'
> 
> for my area stilts, the seemingly desired wage, or what i like to think of as my markets 'current labor rate avg'.........is 11 bucks an hour.
> 
> yea, i got some that go as high (what i think is high) as $15 bucks per hr.........one even at 18$ per hour.....but thats as high as it goes my friend. i have one even as low as $8 bucks per hour......thats my states min. wage.
> 
> but yea, most of these are in the $10 - $12 per hour range.
> 
> stilts, think about that for a second......and compare it to what you're paying.
> 
> now, i know what you're gonna say...'you have the best hangers in your area, and my hangers are all amateur, mexican hacks, and they dont do quality work, etc etc'
> 
> but seriously....ask yourself.....what IS 'quality' today??? im not gonna preach and say i have the best hangers in town......but my BUSINESS is based on reputation and quality work. i couldnt have stayed in business THIS LONG now if it wasnt based on that alone. yea, i may not be the highest paying in town.....but i know i can compete with ANYONE. what matters to me and my customers is the FINAL product i deliver.
> 
> i had a person ask me why my work is so expensive....jokingly saying 'well youre probably using "Jose Gonzales" to hang my house anyways, i know those guys cant cost you that much at all!'
> 
> everytime someone puts me in a position like this and says that to me, i always answer:
> 
> *"hey...are you paying for my employees? or are you paying for my EXPERTISE and knowledge in this industry? because anyone can do drywall, lets face it.......but the reason you called my company, is because you've seen and KNOW the end-result and final product i deliver..."*
> 
> 100% of the time, you know how they answer? they usually just embarrassingly chuckle -- because they know im right.
> 
> 
> and thats no joke stilts.....im not tryin to blow steam or any BS like that at you, but im just bein serious.....ANYONE can do drywall......its sad, but true. what id like to believe sets me apart from the rest and why i charge FOR that -- is my knowledge.
> 
> in my small - medium sized market, my name is synonymous with 'drywall'......i'll tell you one thing, people may not use me all the time to do the drywall in their house because of my price....but as soon as something goes wrong with their current sub.......guess who they call to come fix it.
> 
> again, im not trying to sound arrogant, or cocky when i say that, but its true. like how you say this is your business, and you know it well -- you are not the only one that can claim that my friend. fortunately, we both can.
> 
> 
> anyways, you are right when you say that "_MY Hangers are also contractors , so that's what i contract out my hanging with them at ... So they put a little profit into there pockets , Isn't this what is all about ????? You profit off from subbing out work from contractors & homeowners , and it is no different for the hangers that I hire .... If you are self-employed whats the point of working for someone for an hourly wage ???_"
> 
> yea, there is nothing wrong with this.....but, its not the only option. Thats the wonderful thing about the u.s. is that it is a free market based on capitalism. make all the money you want, within legal means....
> 
> stilts, what im trying to say is, you dont HAVE to hire a 'hanging subcontractor??' Unless you are doing this to give yourself a 'good feeling' inside...knowing that you are sharing your hard-earned money around to other people or 'enriching your local economy,' it doesnt make sense. the only way i see this working, is if your end-customer is paying for it -- that would make sense. although, i just dont see that happening as well....i would have to markup an arm and a leg to the customer at the rates you are paying -- just not practical.
> 
> i dont know....please clarify if i am totally not getting it, but i would never 'subcontract' out my labor? i dont see the use of this unless you are doing it for charitable causes. this is definitely not the most profitable approach....but then again, i really DONT know your true intentions, so that maybe just it right there.
> 
> is that .25/sf hanging subcontractor including the cost of sheetrock also????
> 
> so how much you pay for finishing? do you perform this yourself? which i can see you saving money that way....
> 
> 
> eh, i dunno...still confused. just doesnt sound right. but its your business....and im glad you have been around so long. as far as my company? yea, im sure we'll be around another 30 years.....the question is do i WANT to be doing drywall that much longer? hell no.
> 
> i want to sell the company within 5.-6 years and work on my real estate and land development.
> 
> much less headache w/ more money.
> 
> ...whats the old saying about real estate?
> 
> 
> "God ain't makin' anymore of it"


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## Wouldntulike2know

DRywall sucks especially this stupid companies paying 3 bucks for 12 footErs... Prelim work piecE work making less than minimum plus 2 hours of drive **** sucks all causE this stupid super intendents don wanna see us make money I know it's hard thEse days but 50 bucks a day nah bull**** something need s tO happens any help plz


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## tricounty dwall

MN Wall said:


> Ok Im new to this forum, I read through the first page of this topic and skimed the last page.
> 
> I for one am a big supporter of fare wages for a Journeyman or some one with at least four years of real experiance. I come from the commercial world. Here in the Twin Cities if you are Union, Carpenters and Lathers do the Fraiming and the rocking, tapers finish. on the other hand there is "framers" and there is "rockers".....There are rockers that are scared of framing and only know how to rock....and there are "FRAMERS" that only frame because they are "to good" to rock....what you get is poor framing and poor rocking... Then there is guys like me that have framed just about every type of framing there is and have rocked all his own work...what I'm getting at is, in order to be a good rocker, you need to be a good framer at the same time. Then there are "tapers" and plasterers. they think they can do eachothers work but in all reality cant. Either way I havnt met a one that isnt a winer.
> I take alot of pride in my work and in every thing I do. So I for one feel like I'm worth $30-$35 an hour. I have worked for $15-$25 for a freind as a faver. But I dont care who you are, if you have a Car payment, insurance(personal/medical/buisiness),a mortgage, kids,spouse, and utility bills, to name a few. There is no way a guy can make it at the wages "Custom SVC" is paying. I made $12on check, starting as an aprrentice in '98. I made $8 working at a golf course in high school. For One in the past year I have made less money than I ver have due to be undercut for $.18ft or the $10hr guy. For two I can't (and currentlyam not able too) make it with any thing less than $800-$1200 a week. To make $400-$500 a week is just a kick in the shorts to me.
> When I hire help I pay no less than $12 fior a guy that has somewhat of a head on his sholders and can take directions, I pay $15 for a guy that half assed knows what he is doin, and I pay $20-30/or $.25ft (depending on the job)for a guy that has been doing this for a while and knows what he is doing. JourneymanTapers get paid $30hr or buy the foot. at least $.40.
> 
> Paying $8-$15, or $.11-$.18ft, and hiring mexicans is why our econamy is in the crapper. Of course its OK to for the owner to make 6 figures but he'll be dambed if his guys make a good living and barley get by.
> 
> From what I here alot of the mexicans are heading back wich is good for us but do we have to work for there wages now?
> 
> Sorry if I came across a little strong, I just had to rant for a min.
> 
> forgot to add, for "sheets a day" for the theread topic. Ive worked in Idaho, Washington, MN, and WI, Out west they want 20-30 Sheets a day per guy 60-70 per 2 guys, Around here 15-30 per guy is good. I never got over how conserned they were our west about the sheet count though, but thats how they picked throught there guys. and that is why they called me back out there after I came home. Working here has never realy been about a sheet count as long as you were getting some thing done and did good work. I have never had complaints about my quality or speed.


heck ima come down there and hang for yall. i can hag 100 a day with 1 guy. id make bank down there. and im a finisher so thats even more $$


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## calimoi

excellent comment... funny all right.!! It is just like that in every state..


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## florida drywall

Wow, I am relatively new here. I have read every page of this thread. What I see is employer and employee viewpoints, I also see very different market areas. I am shocked at some of these over priced wages, as well as the low board counts per day. 

When I was hanging years ago for my dad, I had 1 helper, we hung an average of 100 to 120 in a 8 hr day I think, not really sure because we started when the sun came up and worked till dark or with lights to get the job done if we had to. We could hang out a 2,500-sq/ft house in 1 day, with all the bead and clean out. This was in the late 80’s and the 90’s. We were paid by the sheet, 4x12 $3.50 a sheet. We would both make 1,300 to 1,500 a week each, that’s dam good money, and now its back to that. The cost of living needs to be looked at before people start bashing ones pay scale as well as the market. 

Now that my dad passed in 04 I have taken over the company, I don’t pay any less than 5.00 a sheet some times 4.50 on a flat 8’ house. If you can’t make money at that hanging or finishing you need to find a new line of work, sorry but that’s how it is. 

I for one worked in the union here in FL for 4 years; I will never ever do that again. My first week I had a seasoned union vet come up to me and told me I needed to slow down I was making every one look bad and this job needed to last until the next was ready. 

I was shocked and disappointed this was the feeling of these American workers that is what I blame a lot of the economic problem on. These guys were sucking the life out of that company for a paycheck and could care less about its employers. 

I only higher guys that are well versed in there skills. I have no use for a guy that has limited his skills to one craft. I need guys that can frame, hang, finish, and install grid and paint. I don’t need every one of them to have all of these skills, but if they have no less than 3 on the list I will give them a try. 

I like to keep all of my guys working; if they are well rounded they will have an opportunity to work every day as well as advance with in the company. The only time I pay high wages like that are on Gov. jobs, and then I place one of my best guys that I trust on the job to be the ram rod and that is his only job, to get the job done, I have incentive plans in place for supervisors to keep the job flowing and completed on time on budget or under budget. 

I must say that I agree with Custom Drywall Service on a lot of his points as well as the wage, its about the same in FL.

I am not sure about the rest of you, but I am not looking forward to the future for operating a small business. The Fed and State level sure are making it harder and harder to keep the doors open.

So good luck out there, and if you are in the Union, thank your Union Leaders for backing and voting for our current administration.


----------



## florida drywall

Wouldntulike2know said:


> DRywall sucks especially this stupid companies paying 3 bucks for 12 footErs... Prelim work piecE work making less than minimum plus 2 hours of drive **** sucks all causE this stupid super intendents don wanna see us make money I know it's hard thEse days but 50 bucks a day nah bull**** something need s tO happens any help plz


If you are only making $50.00 a day and hanging for $3.00 a sheet that’s only 16.66 sheets per day right? While $3.00 a sheet is a bit low. 16.66 sheets a day is not only low but sad. I would say try to work a little harder and find a better paying project.


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## drywallmike08

silverstilts said:


> My two guys would do that in an 8 hr day without working too hard butand by being steady , i have seen others that worked for me do it in less time and not use a router but hand cut everything and not miss a box & everything tight like it should be in about six hours because of there experience knowing what the other is doing and working as one ..... i have seen others take 2 or more days that is based on a 2000' home with about 150 pcs. of board..(7400') realistically about a day and half for most though....and what i pay that is damn good @.25 per ft. I think a 3 man crew works the best as one is cutting and the other 2 hang works much faster if they have years together as a crew...


 our average 3 man crew is .09 per foot . that brings me to the next question what do you pay your spray guy cuz i'm willing to relocate :thumbup:


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## moore

One man . 40 sheets ..:yes:


----------



## Brian S

moore said:


> One man . 40 sheets ..:yes:


Is that with all the boards loaded in? and just walls or ceilings as well?

My average was about 35 a day screwboarding and slighty less dabbing
most I ever done screwboarding was 58, and I had to get them in from outside and up the stairs (8 x 4 1/2" board)


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## gazman

We just hung a steel framed home. 120 sheets all 6m long plus wet areas a total of 1025m2 (11033 square feet). All glued. 20 hours (two days)for three men.


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## SlimPickins

All my jobs lately have been the kind where I hang 9-10 12 footers a day (with lots of tricky details)....the kind where you need to shoot a line laser to develop a frame of reference because the floor is sloped 2 inches in 12 ft, and the ceilings are sloped the other direction and only occasionally is something plumb. Good times!


----------



## Checkers

37, 4'X12's in 4 hours by myself.
Half screwed off, 14 5/8" on lid, the rest 1/2" on walls.

I couldn't believe it.


----------



## silverstilts

drywallmike08 said:


> our average 3 man crew is .09 per foot . that brings me to the next question what do you pay your spray guy cuz i'm willing to relocate :thumbup:


I am the spray man:yes: wouldn't pay anyone to do the gravy job, I love to spray and could do it everyday.


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## moore

Brian S said:


> Is that with all the boards loaded in? and just walls or ceilings as well?
> 
> My average was about 35 a day screwboarding and slighty less dabbing
> most I ever done screwboarding was 58, and I had to get them in from outside and up the stairs (8 x 4 1/2" board)


OK ..I once hung 42 sheets In a long day.. It was a store front,,all walls 54x12s @ 4x12s 14' walls .The next day even my lift was sore..I normally average 25-30 4x12s a day with the lift. I pre-cut,,,have never used a roto-zip ..Anything over 60 boards I sub it out ..IF I have the time me and tuco will hang the small stuff. All are jobs are staged brian. Once In a great while a h/o will have it laid in the floor I hate that.And I charge for It.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

Back in the days when ceilings were 8' I used to get a solid 45 4x12 avarage no problem. Many days over 50 and maxing out at 65. Bad days low 30's. Now the standard home is what used to be a custom. Ain't hanging much these days (always taping) avarages are most likely around 35. The earning potential hasn't changed over the years. The style is new but the pays the same as it was so long ago. :confused1:


----------



## moore

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Back in the days when ceilings were 8' I used to get a solid 45 4x12 avarage no problem. Many days over 50 and maxing out at 65. Bad days low 30's. Now the standard home is what used to be a custom. Ain't hanging much these days (always taping) avarages are most likely around 35. The earning potential hasn't changed over the years. The style is new but the pays the same as it was so long ago. :confused1:


ain't that the truth ... All those can lights are free work to cut around and god forbid they break on a seam.. I miss the days when h/o had no rights..:yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Just a simple break down here, rough guesstament , easy way to get a approximate count..... Like, you can look at a pile of drywall, and there's x amount of drywall in the pile, and you remember these 1st 4 numbers.......

21 twelves is a thousand sq (1008)
25 tens is a thousand sq ft (1000)
28 nines is a thousand sq ft (1008)
31 eights is a thousand sq ft (992) 

Back in the day, when the houses were more easy, what I call 1960's houses, One floor, basement not finished. You would step into the house, living room in front, kitchen to the back, 2 or 3 bedrooms down a hallway, with one bathroom. Everyone knows what type of house I mean.

They could be 4,000 sq ft and up, If a 2 man crew got one of those places done in one day, that was a damn good show. And not a lot of guys did, but the really good ones could. That was the magic number we were told to gun for when I started boarding ,5000 sq ft. We made 10 cents a sq, so if you did hit that number, that was $250 for each guy, good money back in the day. (installing different sized sheets)

But even then as I was boarding, the houses were changing, Lots of back splits with the 7'-6" up stairs. gable roofs became cottage style (change in truss direction). Way more 2 story houses were being built, sky lights and cathedrals started to come into play.......... Guess what I'm trying to say is,, I don't think you can put a number on it no more.

The one trend I'm seeing, is no more 2 man drywall crews. ( where I work at least) there's always 3 or more guys in a crew, while the taping crews are becoming one man shows.

So I don't know, the generation of drywallers before me, would brag that they could smoke a shack off in one day, and that we sucked, because we couldn't. But the generation of guys drywalling now, I feel sorry for some of them. Some of these houses are so wicked these days:blink:


----------



## SlimPickins

I just started a 760 sheets of drywall house yesterday with me and my friend and we will be done tomorrow morning we will have it done with the mud taping tomorrows night times and have it painted on Tuesday. With the money we make off this job we are going to by a drywall screwdriver gun and one of thoses dremels for cutting electric stuff.

​


----------



## chris

SlimPickins said:


> I just started a 760 sheets of drywall house yesterday with me and my friend and we will be done tomorrow morning we will have it done with the mud taping tomorrows night times and have it painted on Tuesday. With the money we make off this job we are going to by a drywall screwdriver gun and one of thoses dremels for cutting electric stuff.​


have you tried rotozippers


----------



## moore

SlimPickins said:


> I just started a 760 sheets of drywall house yesterday with me and my friend and we will be done tomorrow morning we will have it done with the mud taping tomorrows night times and have it painted on Tuesday. With the money we make off this job we are going to by a drywall screwdriver gun and one of thoses dremels for cutting electric stuff.
> 
> ​


That's funny Slim..You should have went with one of them thar dremels..


----------



## SlimPickins

chris said:


> have you tried rotozippers


Why would I need a zipper that undoes itself automatically? What if it started pulling itself up too soon??


----------



## SlimPickins

moore said:


> That's funny Slim..You should have went with one of them thar dremels..


I was actually working a commercial job where the owner's stepson showed up to start working with us (in designer jeans). On day 2 he showed up with a dremel so he wouldn't have to keep walking 500+ ft. to borrow a router. So then he kept walking back to ask if he could borrow "drill bits" for the "electrical holes" I think day 4 was his last day.....those guys were brutal to the poor kid.


----------



## Zendik

My first exposure to top notch supervision came when I was hanging in Honolulu at Nauru Tower.
http://www.naurutower.com/

Big Jim and Stanley Joesph, both very large Hawaiians were the drywall superintendents and foreman that were running the job.
They worked out a production rate which were 40 sheets, 5/8 X 8'. Gravy really.. They told us hang 40 go home with 8 hours. We were leaving at 12-1pm everyday. Jim also allowed us to count whatever whatever sheets we hung over on Thursday towards our Friday count. I was leaving with 8 and my check every Friday at 10am. 
In Hawaii, hanging in high rise condos it was every man for himself, no partners. 
Now that count is 60 sheets for one guy. 
The hardest and most sheets I ever hung was in a large commercial space hanging lids a few years back. My partner and I hung 80 5/8 12' sheets that day while both of us were in our 40s..
Still hurts.


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## ubcboardguy

i personally make 29.83 per hour plus benefits. granted i am union and also commercial, as a foreman i about 32. on my jobs i expect a journeyman to hang 40 a day with cuts by themselves completely screwed off. i have ran jobs on hotels and city high rises. the same guys who frame it hang it, and generally do the ceilings both acoustical and hard lids. if they have an apprentice i want about 60 sheets a day depending on the situation. if they are hanging only bulkheads or lids its different. but i am talking about walls framed on 18g metal. if they cant do it i lay them off. my unions contract pays good money, if they are not willing to work i lay them off. they generally got a week to get in the hang of things. if they cant do it i find someone who can


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## ROCKER

*80 board a day*

i can hang 80 per day with or with out router 8 ft. high 12 ft. board. at 3.00 per board is 240.00 a day


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## moore

ROCKER said:


> i can hang 80 per day with or with out router 8 ft. high 12 ft. board. at 3.00 per board is 240.00 a day


 SI! No thank you..


----------



## PrecisionTaping

ROCKER said:


> i can hang 80 per day with or with out router 8 ft. high 12 ft. board. at 3.00 per board is 240.00 a day


I'm calling BullSh!t on that! If you can hang 80 12ft sheets by yourself in a day you're coming to work for me.
I'll damn well pay you more than a sh!tty 3$ a sheet! If you can do 80 sheets a day (which you can't) i'll start you off at 6$ a sheet.

80 12ft sheets is 3840squ/ft. Not possible for one guy.
That's even a push for two guys, depending on the layout of the house.


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## moore

With router means he will cut the boxes out...$3.00 per board is Stupid.. Even for an immigrant ...


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## PrecisionTaping

moore said:


> With router means he will cut the boxes out...$3.00 per board is Stupid.. Even for an immigrant ...


Well ya! That's a ridiculous price.


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## gam026

PrecisionTaping said:


> I'm calling BullSh!t on that! If you can hang 80 12ft sheets by yourself in a day you're coming to work for me.
> I'll damn well pay you more than a sh!tty 3$ a sheet! If you can do 80 sheets a day (which you can't) i'll start you off at 6$ a sheet.
> 
> 80 12ft sheets is 3840squ/ft. Not possible for one guy.
> That's even a push for two guys, depending on the layout of the house.


I agree,

I would hire him to.

My drywall crew has 3 guys and can hang about 3500 ft a day. Not sure what the sheet count is cause we got 8', 10', 12' and 54" board. Is that good or not, don't really care, as long as the work is solid and its done when i need it done, and it is.


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## gam026

gam026 said:


> I agree,
> 
> I would hire him to.
> 
> My drywall crew has 3 guys and can hang about 3500 ft a day. Not sure what the sheet count is cause we got 8', 10', 12' and 54" board. Is that good or not, don't really care, as long as the work is solid and its done when i need it done, and it is.


Sorry i should clarify, the 3 man crew is 2 journeymen and a helper and the houses are cut up to chit


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## PrecisionTaping

gam026 said:


> Sorry i should clarify, the 3 man crew is 2 journeymen and a helper and the houses are cut up to chit


That's usually what were pulling in as well. Almost the same thing.


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## moore

ROCKER said:


> i can hang 80 per day with or with out router 8 ft. high 12 ft. board. at 3.00 per board is 240.00 a day


20 4x12s ..10 4x8s and v my butts 1 man ..$270 7 HOURS..
Charge what your worth!


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## PrecisionTaping

moore said:


> 20 4x12s ..10 4x8s and v my butts 1 man ..$270 7 HOURS..
> Charge what your worth!


Moore!?!?!? WTF!? You only charged that guy $270 for that!?
That's 1260squ/ft! That's at least a $450 job bro.
Up your prices man! Seriously. I mean if you're happy with $270 than that's cool. But dude! You could have easily charged $450 if not $600
Looks great though! You blow me away that you do all that by yourself. Good time, clean work. Always impressed!

You say charge what you're worth, but who else on here would agree with me that Moore is worth a hell of allot more than $270!? :yes:


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## mudslingr

Thirty-eight bucks/hour isn't too shabby either ! Bet that's why moore is constantly working.
Gotta remember PT, prices aren't the same everywhere.


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Moore!?!?!? WTF!? You only charged that guy $270 for that!?
> That's 1260squ/ft! That's at least a $450 job bro.
> Up your prices man! Seriously. I mean if you're happy with $270 than that's cool. But dude! You could have easily charged $450 if not $600
> Looks great though! You blow me away that you do all that by yourself. Good time, clean work. Always impressed!
> 
> You say charge what you're worth, but who else on here would agree with me that Moore is worth a hell of allot more than $270!? :yes:


Tomorrow is tax freedom day for us PT







http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=17634

Ask Moore how much he would pay to buy a brand new ford 150 truck, then tell him how much you will pay.........

He will tell you your not charging enough:yes:


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## SlimPickins

PrecisionTaping said:


> I'm calling BullSh!t on that! If you can hang 80 12ft sheets by yourself in a day you're coming to work for me.
> I'll damn well pay you more than a sh!tty 3$ a sheet! If you can do 80 sheets a day (which you can't) i'll start you off at 6$ a sheet.
> 
> 80 12ft sheets is 3840squ/ft. Not possible for one guy.
> That's even a push for two guys, depending on the layout of the house.


I know _*ONE*_ man who can hang like that, and he makes a LOT more than $3/sheet. I've seen him hang a 6000 ft. (sheet count) house in 2 & 1/2 days......regular length shifts. That's the same time it took my partner and I to hang it back in 2005. He's an animal......old, cantankerous, and making money. He made $1260 for hanging that house. That's about....... $63/hr.


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## PrecisionTaping

mudslingr said:


> Thirty-eight bucks/hour isn't too shabby either ! Bet that's why moore is constantly working.
> Gotta remember PT, prices aren't the same everywhere.


That's true. I did the math afterwards and realized it was still 38$/hr.
It is good money. Well done Moore.



2buckcanuck said:


> Tomorrow is tax freedom day for us PT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=17634
> 
> Ask Moore how much he would pay to buy a brand new ford 150 truck, then tell him how much you will pay.........
> 
> He will tell you your not charging enough:yes:


This is true! Although I got a wicked good deal on my truck!


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> This is true! Although I got a wicked good deal on my truck!


Did you buy it in the states:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Did you buy it in the states:whistling2:


lol! no. Got it from an auction in Toronto.
It's 2007 F-150 Super Cab I bought in 08 with 20k km's on it.
So it was 1 year old.
I paid 20G's.


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## Creviston

Keep it fair. Both you and your client should be happy. Some of what I had read in this thread concerning prices really angered me. But I really dont care how much other people are or aren't making. The local market and your reputation will decide how much you can charge and how often you get to charge that. As to how much board I can hang in a day with my partner of 5 years well, I'm not one for a pissing contest. But we always got calls to hang more board from the great tapers even through the bust. Now a days I like to walk away from a job knowing everyone is happy, unless it's for a dentist then my price triples. Hahahahahahahahahaha But I'll eat my cucking shirt before I start hanging board for an hourly rate. Especially at $12 an hour why would anyone do that for more than a month or two depending on how fast they learn. If you don't get it in a month or two your never going to get it. I'll take two bucks less and flip burgers at MC Donald's and flirt with high school girls first.


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## moore

PrecisionTaping said:


> Moore!?!?!? WTF!? You only charged that guy $270 for that!?
> That's 1260squ/ft! That's at least a $450 job bro.
> Up your prices man! Seriously. I mean if you're happy with $270 than that's cool. But dude! You could have easily charged $450 if not $600
> Looks great though! You blow me away that you do all that by yourself. Good time, clean work. Always impressed!
> 
> You say charge what you're worth, but who else on here would agree with me that Moore is worth a hell of allot more than $270!? :yes:


 I have to bid against Rocker here..$9 a board for straight 8s are unheard of in this area..I'm one of the few who get jobs without having to bid at all...When can you get to it is what they want to know.


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## chris

Looks clean Moore:thumbsup: nice work. 80 sheets a day for 1 guy is not unheard of, really depends on job. Ive seen classrooms with double layer walls go up in less than an hour (30 plus sheets) with one man so .... P.S. dont encourage lowballing:whistling2:


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