# Misclassification of employees



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

First, I realize one has to do what it takes to feed his family! However, here's a great article on why misclassification of employees is bad for our economy.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...ction-underground-economy-20140829-story.html

If allowed to continue we will be like Mexico with a huge underground economy and 2 class society. Funny, because in the article they interview a drywaller.


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

I've made it a point of letting customers know we're actual hangers not displaced framers,roofers,masons or concrete finishers ( although I've done all those in the past  ) People nowdays seem to think the more jobs they can squeeze out of one guy the more they get for thier money.


----------



## Zendik (Sep 14, 2011)

Dude gets into the trade, becomes a great hand then is turned into a foreman, next up is getting his license and walla, we have another construction company.

Here's the problem. 

While all of us have been trained in our trade very little of us have been trained to supervise much less run a business. I have to ask then, who would hire a non trained carpenter? No one. 

I have now been in construction for 3 decades. Two decades ago I attended the Associated General Contractor's of America Supervisory Training Program.
http://www.agc.org/cs/career_development/supervisory

Because of that every single job I have ran has come out at least 3 weeks ahead of schedule. I can take the worse crews that show up late and do ****ty work and have them showing up an hour early and kick ass.

The problem with contractors and workers is simple. 
You have trained construction workers opening businesses without having any business or leadership training at all. This is what happens.


----------



## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Zendik said:


> Dude gets into the trade, becomes a great hand then is turned into a foreman, next up is getting his license and walla, we have another construction company.
> 
> Here's the problem.
> 
> ...


2 True!:thumbsup:
Had some site manager try get my worker working on his site for him:furious: F*ckin d*ckhead!
My worker is good but as for running a business not much chance!
He told the guy he was never good at math's at school LOL:thumbup:
I texted the d*ckhead and told him to get the f*ck out of my business,Should be good when we meet up at the site!!


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

I never intended to be self employed. I had quit drywall and was 5 years deep in a road construction job where I was doing OK. My foreman was _*secretly*_(thought I didnt know) training me to take over a crew. I didn't want to be a Boss. I couldn't stand sitting all winter every layoff season so ended up hanging for a guy my brother worked for. Well this guy was all promises and smiles while paying me cash. He told me he'd match what I was making at my job. Also I heard rumors there were no scale(wage) jobs lined up for the road const. the next year. 
Long story short the drywall guy put me on the books ,which delayed my pay, when layoff was over and I find 2 weeks too late he gave me a DOLLAR LESS. I dealt with that for a few months....and fixing his revolving door of junker vans for free....then driving my wifes car loaded down with his tools ...free...than my wife got in an accident because I had her car and she had my old beater road hazard. Then I get treated to 'woman driver' slurs and jokes,bitching about me having to take her to physical therapy,etc.....it all came to a head when I asked about my raise and he gave me a quarter. A FRAKKIN QUARTER?!? After all THAT?!??
I put my belt on my shoulder and walked home from Red Lion PA to Rising Sun MD. As I walk up my driveway the guy who got me into drywall in the first place pulled up behind me. I said "Perfect timing. Get us some work" so he gets on the phone and 5 minutes later is handing me an address saying " I don't hang anymore,here's your first job. You know enough, just do it" .........panic ensued......but.......23 years later I'm still mostly subbing due to lack of capital ...still don't wanna be a Boss....so I teach my guys to think and take pride in thier work. Or get off my job.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank you for that useful post!!:thumbsup:


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

moore said:


> Thank you for that useful post!!:thumbsup:


 didn't mean to ramble on 


The point I never got to was after all these years I'm still a "sargeant" not a "general". You can learn admin by trial and error but it takes _capital_ to make that last step up.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

evolve991 said:


> didn't mean to ramble on
> 
> 
> The point I never got to was after all these years I'm still a "sargeant" not a "general". You can learn admin by trial and error but it takes _capital_ to make that last step up.


I hear ya on the capital !!!!


----------



## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

or you can be a preacher the church will loan you the capital find you the work and you hire legal citizens that hire illegal citizens to do the work keeping your hand clean not bad.:whistling2:


----------



## McCallum and Sons (Nov 3, 2013)

The misclassification of employees goes on everywhere. Here in Oklahoma the drywall business in residential is full of contractors that do the same thing. We don't have any kind of contractor licensing and a lot of the builders will overlook the insurance and take a comp waiver to be able to use the cheap price. We run our business by the book and it is hard for us to compete because there are so many other so called "drywall contractors". I lost a good builder to one of these type of contractors recently and he is doing a 4,500 sq Ft 24000 SF of rock with high ceilings, all smooth ceilings and walls, hang through finish, buying the mud and bead etc for .36 psf !! The builder showed me the bid and said he has to give him try because it's a tight budget, I told him don't call me when it has to be fixed.


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

gordie said:


> or you can be a preacher the church will loan you the capital find you the work and you hire legal citizens that hire illegal citizens to do the work keeping your hand clean not bad.:whistling2:


Knew,and worked for, a guy just like that. I got "let go" for not 'living right' after I cussed out his coke fiend brother for dropping a sheet on us. Prayyyzz Gawwud:furious:


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

McCallum and Sons said:


> The misclassification of employees goes on everywhere. Here in Oklahoma the drywall business in residential is full of contractors that do the same thing. We don't have any kind of contractor licensing and a lot of the builders will overlook the insurance and take a comp waiver to be able to use the cheap price. We run our business by the book and it is hard for us to compete because there are so many other so called "drywall contractors". I lost a good builder to one of these type of contractors recently and he is doing a 4,500 sq Ft 24000 SF of rock with high ceilings, all smooth ceilings and walls, hang through finish, buying the mud and bead etc for .36 psf !! The builder showed me the bid and said he has to give him try because it's a tight budget, I told him don't call me when it has to be fixed.


 I admire you for you integrity and understanding of how our society works. Here's a great site that shows each state contractor license requirements.

http://www.contractors-license.org/

Here's a great article about the agreement by our government to crack down on misclassification. This could ruin someone if they got fined.

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/tax-risks-misclassifying-employees

Who will support these so called subs when they become elderly and find out their SS is hardly anything, and they have no retirement? The taxpayer.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I Will support myself Willy!! I've never relied on a government check thus far...By the time I reach retirement there will be no SS. Just because your a retired union man there's no need to piss on the rest of us po mofo's!!! LOL!!! BTW I have a few horses in the barn.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

McCallum and Sons said:


> The misclassification of employees goes on everywhere. Here in Oklahoma the drywall business in residential is full of contractors that do the same thing. We don't have any kind of contractor licensing and a lot of the builders will overlook the insurance and take a comp waiver to be able to use the cheap price. We run our business by the book and it is hard for us to compete because there are so many other so called "drywall contractors". I lost a good builder to one of these type of contractors recently and he is doing a 4,500 sq Ft 24000 SF of rock with high ceilings, all smooth ceilings and walls, hang through finish, buying the mud and bead etc for .36 psf !! The builder showed me the bid and said he has to give him try because it's a tight budget, I told him don't call me when it has to be fixed.


I hope he calls you on the next one!! Don't cut em no slack! :whistling2:


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> I Will support myself Willy!! I've never relied on a government check thus far...By the time I reach retirement there will be no SS. Just because your a retired union man there's no need to piss on the rest of us po mofo's!!! LOL!!! BTW I have a few horses in the barn.


With all due respect I must disagree with your assesment that SS won't be there when you retire. For example, in 2010 my employer and I paid just under $14,000 on my behalf into SS. Had I been paid as independent contractor this contribution would have been much less, and so would the payout when it comes time to retire. Our society will not let people starve, so these under reported wage earners will then become dependent on society in there elder years. Therefore, the misclassification of employees as independent contractors places additional burden on those who played by the rules.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> With all due respect I must disagree with your assesment that SS won't be there when you retire. For example, in 2010 my employer and I paid just under $14,000 on my behalf into SS. Had I been paid as independent contractor this contribution would have been much less, and so would the payout when it comes time to retire. Our society will not let people starve, so these under reported wage earners will then become dependent on society in there elder years. Therefore, the misclassification of employees as independent contractors places additional burden on those who played by the rules.


 You sound like a spoiled rotten little bitch Willy !!!


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

''our society will not let people starve '' BULLCHIT!


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> You sound like a spoiled rotten little bitch Willy !!!


Name calling lacks a credible argument. I simply pointed out that misclassification will create additional burden on the taxpayer when these individuals can no longer work and qualify for government assistance. Ignoring it, or brushing it off won't change these facts.
If working my ass off and going to school while working makes me spoiled then maybe it is you that has a skewed vision of reality. My SS will be $1700 a month at 62, and I earned it, because I paid into it.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

For self-employment income earned in 2013 and 2014, the self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance).

Payroll employees SSI withheld,,,,
The current tax rate for social security is 6.2% for the employer and 6.2% for the employee, or 12.4% total. The current rate for Medicare is 1.45% for the employer and 1.45% for the employee, or 2.9% total.

The rates are the same. Just clarifying.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> For self-employment income earned in 2013 and 2014, the self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance).
> 
> Payroll employees SSI withheld,,,,
> The current tax rate for social security is 6.2% for the employer and 6.2% for the employee, or 12.4% total. The current rate for Medicare is 1.45% for the employer and 1.45% for the employee, or 2.9% total.
> ...


 You are correct, but are not seeing the difference. Contractor x pays Juan as an employee $50,000 and the payroll tax paid is based on $50,000. Contractor x pays Jorge $50,000 as an independent contractor. Jorge files a schedule C when he does his taxes and only pays payroll tax on $35,000 after business deductions (or he's illegal and doesn't even file). Therefore, this misclassification places additional burden on others who play by the rules. Payroll tax is only a part on the problem too. Workmans Comp insurance, unemployment insurance, and numerous other expenses paid by legit contractors is saved by those who use this method.


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

What do you think of this loop hole willy?

Example: Mel forms an LLC to operate his accounting practice and elects to have it taxed as an S Corporation. Mel is an employee of the LLC and receives a $100,000 salary. The remaining $100,000 of the business's profits are passed through the S corporation and reported as an S corporation distribution on Mel’s personal income tax return, not as employee salary. Because it is not viewed as employee wages, neither Mel nor his corporation need to pay Social Security or Medicare tax on this amount. Mel and his corporation only pay a total of $15,300 in employment taxes (15.3% x $100,000 = $15,300). Had Mel not elected S corporation status for his LLC, he would have had to pay self-employment tax on his entire $200,000 profit. This would have required him to pay an additional $2,900 in Medicare taxes and $1,252 in Social Security taxes.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> What do you think of this loop hole willy?
> 
> Example: Mel forms an LLC to operate his accounting practice and elects to have it taxed as an S Corporation. Mel is an employee of the LLC and receives a $100,000 salary. The remaining $100,000 of the business's profits are passed through the S corporation and reported as an S corporation distribution on Mel’s personal income tax return, not as employee salary. Because it is not viewed as employee wages, neither Mel nor his corporation need to pay Social Security or Medicare tax on this amount. Mel and his corporation only pay a total of $15,300 in employment taxes (15.3% x $100,000 = $15,300). Had Mel not elected S corporation status for his LLC, he would have had to pay self-employment tax on his entire $200,000 profit. This would have required him to pay an additional $2,900 in Medicare taxes and $1,252 in Social Security taxes.


The only problem I see is that it doesn't really apply due to the max cap limits on payroll tax. 2013 was $113,700, and 2014 is $117,000, so Mel only actually sheltered a small amount.
Also, it should be noted that individuals with incomes over 100k are slightly less than 7% of our population, so your example would be very limited.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

In theory, Juan has a stable job with benefits, paid holidays & vacation, his equipment is supplied by his employer. Workmans comp if he is injured on the job, and unemployment benefits if he's laid off. Juans employer get's the write off.
Assuming Jorge pays his taxes he still isn't eligible to make a comp claim or receive unemployment. He has to purchase equipment, insurances, and possibly hire and accounting firm. No paid holiday. Jorge get's the write off. Jorge has much more business expense than Juan.


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> In theory, Juan has a stable job with benefits, paid holidays & vacation, his equipment is supplied by his employer. Workmans comp if he is injured on the job, and unemployment benefits if he's laid off. Juans employer get's the write off.
> Assuming Jorge pays his taxes he still isn't eligible to make a comp claim or receive unemployment. He has to purchase equipment, insurances, and possibly hire and accounting firm. No paid holiday. Jorge get's the write off. Jorge has much more business expense than Juan.


Correct!:thumbsup: thats the part union guys have a problem understanding:whistling2:


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> In theory, Juan has a stable job with benefits, paid holidays & vacation, his equipment is supplied by his employer. Workmans comp if he is injured on the job, and unemployment benefits if he's laid off. Juans employer get's the write off.
> Assuming Jorge pays his taxes he still isn't eligible to make a comp claim or receive unemployment. He has to purchase equipment, insurances, and possibly hire and accounting firm. No paid holiday. Jorge get's the write off. Jorge has much more business expense than Juan.


 This would be awesome if it really worked this way, but reality has proven otherwise, and that Jorge and his family are a burden on the system. It is an eloquent yellow brick road though.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Please elaborate Mr. Willys. Why is Jorge a burden.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Please elaborate Mr. Willys. Why is Jorge a burden?


Jorge has come to this country from Mexico. He's not married, so his kids when born here qualify for SS and Medicaid. He works in Texas for 10 cents a foot, so he can't afford comp insurance, or scaffolding, or taping tools. If he, or his spouse gets sick and goes to the emergency room, you and I pay for it. 
If you complain about prices you only have yourself to blame if you misclassify your employees. It is a race to the bottom sanctioned by our own stupidity.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Despite the names Juan and Jorge, I didn't realize this was a racially biased discussion, at least when it came to my part in it. 
I was more interested in the comparisons in payroll and independent workers regardless of ethnicity. 
Employee's and self employed individuals are really two sides of the same coin.
There are a lot of mismanaged "legit" employers in all facets of business that don't follow the rules, as well as sub-labor who don't.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> Jorge has come to this country from Mexico. He's not married, so his kids when born here qualify for SS and Medicaid. He works in Texas for 10 cents a foot, so he can't afford comp insurance, or scaffolding, or taping tools. If he, or his spouse gets sick and goes to the emergency room, you and I pay for it.
> If you complain about prices you only have yourself to blame if you misclassify your employees. It is a race to the bottom sanctioned by our own stupidity.


And Jorge Is who most D/Cs will hire before even taking a glance at me.

Not just D/Cs ..roofers /masons/siding/painters/framers .etc..


The home I'm on now . The G/C told me to take all the time you need..He said ..I need a good job on this home. His last two were cluster fks! Some of the good builders have tried it... They found out very quickly that paying very little will get you just that. 

But I'll be honest with ya..! If Jorge is looking for work? I can snowball him till Spring!!!! If he's willing to listen!!!!!!!!


----------



## McCallum and Sons (Nov 3, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> Jorge has come to this country from Mexico. He's not married, so his kids when born here qualify for SS and Medicaid. He works in Texas for 10 cents a foot, so he can't afford comp insurance, or scaffolding, or taping tools. If he, or his spouse gets sick and goes to the emergency room, you and I pay for it.
> If you complain about prices you only have yourself to blame if you misclassify your employees. It is a race to the bottom sanctioned by our own stupidity.


That is exactly what I have been seeing here for the last several years. Except these guys can afford scaffold, spray rigs and new trucks because they come here illegally and don't file taxes, they are usually married in Mexico but they don't claim it here. Their wives get a low paying job in fast food or janitorial but a payroll job nonetheless. This low paying job entitles the women and children a bevy of benefits that's really meant for people that need it. Meanwhile the husbands are out working 12 hours a day, paying no taxes, medical bills, diapers, groceries etc. There are a lot of Mexican immigrants that really want to establish a life here and become Americans but I would say the majority of the ones I see are just here to get what they can until they can go back. I will not be a part of the problem, I don't care if I make more money or not.


----------



## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

Mr. Willys, let's see if you can agree with me on this.
Instead of keeping all the undocumented working in a underground economy where many don't pay taxes and many do not get paid a fare wage, why don't we give them the opportunity to work here legally? I don't mean amnesty and citizenship but give them the opportunity to prove that they have paid their dues and deserve to finally be here legit.
I know a few that have been here over 20 years and still cannot find a way to become legal in any way because of the way our immigration laws are written.
So if we are still going to have them here, why not let them contribute more to our country by letting them work legally, pay taxes and maybe someday earn their citizenship.
They have become political pawns in a argument that has not changed and will not change unless we change our way of looking at the situation.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Despite the names Juan and Jorge, I didn't realize this was a racially biased discussion, at least when it came to my part in it.
> I was more interested in the comparisons in payroll and independent workers regardless of ethnicity.
> Employee's and self employed individuals are really two sides of the same coin.
> There are a lot of mismanaged "legit" employers in all facets of business that don't follow the rules, as well as sub-labor who don't.


 Okay, so let me take another stab, and instead of making it up I'll use a true story. 
Bob (not his real name) lives in Stockton, CA and works for contractor X installing cabinets. He gets paid as an independent contractor even though he's not licensed as California law requires. One day while cutting with a Skilsaw his boss provided he cuts off his thumb (true story). He has no health insurance, so contractor x takes him to the county hospital. Bob lies to the social worker, and doctors and says it happened while working in his garage (actually occurred on a major US builder construction site), so the social worker qualifies him for Medi-Cal (most states Medicaid). It took so long to process him at county, so they were unable to save his thumb and sew it back on. After 2 months on welfare (can't qualify for disability, or unemployment) county cuts off his big toe and attaches it to his hand in place of his thumb. Medi-Cal pays for all of this, and his physical therapy while he collects welfare and food stamps for 8 more months while he recuperates before he can go back to work.

To think some of you approve of this just sickens me! But hey, contractor x made good money.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

desertmud said:


> Mr. Willys, let's see if you can agree with me on this.
> Instead of keeping all the undocumented working in a underground economy where many don't pay taxes and many do not get paid a fare wage, why don't we give them the opportunity to work here legally? I don't mean amnesty and citizenship but give them the opportunity to prove that they have paid their dues and deserve to finally be here legit.
> I know a few that have been here over 20 years and still cannot find a way to become legal in any way because of the way our immigration laws are written.
> So if we are still going to have them here, why not let them contribute more to our country by letting them work legally, pay taxes and maybe someday earn their citizenship.
> They have become political pawns in a argument that has not changed and will not change unless we change our way of looking at the situation.


Absolutely not. It should be mandatory that employers confirm SS numbers prior to employment to eliminate illegal aliens from the work force. Not one single politician from either party will do this, because illegals drive down working class wages.
Any employer can do this right now, and here's the site that allows you to do it.

http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm

However, it is not mandatory and should be.


----------



## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

So we will continue to have this issue because we all know Mexicans have always come up here to work, legal or illegal and are intertwined in our society. 
All I'm suggesting is that if you are so worried about the thousands working under the books because that's the only way they will be able to work and will not voluntarily go back to poverty stricken town in Guatemala or Mexico, then why not make it to where this country can benefit more from their labors?
The whole reason they are driving prices down in the first place is because of greedy contractors who know they can take advantage. 
We won't get anywhere by being hard asses and expect the thousands to leave on their own.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

should we allow everyone who breaks our laws go free without consequence? Had we done something long ago this would not be an issue.
When I taught apprenticeship Asian immigrants living San Francisco would join the union for $60 and come to school and take 2 years of classes before our rules would stop them without reported work hours. they would then take their knowledge and work in the SF underground remodeling industry.
We have government and our society for a common cause and should enforce the rules. However, we allow money to bend the rules like misclassification, and illegal immigration.


----------



## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

Well,
Give them a chance to go by the rules. If you give the guy a work permit that allows him to work for whoever he wants-who will he decide to work for?
ABC contracting inc.- who will pay him a fair wage, offers health insurance and has steady work 
Or
Greedy Remodeling- does not play by the books, offers no benefits, pays less taxes, and offers him a ****ty wage with very little job security?

I think I would assume they go for stability and opportunity, even if they have to pay taxes.
Right now most only get the second choice.


----------



## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> To think some of you approve of this just sickens me! But hey, contractor x made good money.


Shame on you to think anyone here approves of gaming the system.
I certainly don't. 
Criminals are just that. They lack morals and they will use any means necessary to achieve their goals. I'm not so naïve to believe the problem won't still exist if you eliminate independent contractors. Like you said, Bob wasn't following the rules. There's corruption. The illegals will still work under the table. 
Who's going to police,,, no one.


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Shame on you to think anyone here approves of gaming the system.
> I certainly don't.
> Criminals are just that. They lack morals and they will use any means necessary to achieve their goals. I'm not so naïve to believe the problem won't still exist if you eliminate independent contractors. Like you said, Bob wasn't following the rules. There's corruption. The illegals will still work under the table.
> Who's going to police,,, no one.


 
I used to hate illegals simply for being illegal _but_ I can now understand, not condone mind you, how they could find themselves in such a situation. If you had a choice between being a pawn to a drug cartel, and your family basically hostages, or crossing a border to make a living (maybe not _legal_ but more respectable and less execution-y) what would _you_ do?
I blame the "upstanding citizen" who exploits them. If there weren't a market in new age slavery run by righteous crooks ,who are usually screaming "Unfair" the loudest, there wouldn't be such a wage difference. Drywallers wouldn't have such a broad,standardless range of possible frakkery to deal with. The biggest argument such "patriots" use is _TAXES_ ....they don't wanna pay'em on thier income and they don't want thier 'subhuman' workers paying either because that would make them 'appear' in society. They'd be forced to treat them like humans rather than another "race".


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I've said it before, the whole illegal thing could be stopped through employer social security verification prior to employment. While I sympathize with anyone who struggles in a 3rd world country we still need to enforce our laws. I actually worked for a guy once who used SS verification, and there were guys he wouldn't hire.


----------



## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

It's funny that you say that about what here in Arizona we have as E-Verify. Even with that in place I personally know woman working at the Mall who are illegal, guys working in upscale restaurants who are undocumented. Places where it is not possible to hire them as independent contractors, yet they've found a way to work. These people are hardworking individuals who are not on welfare and contribute in a positive way. They have kids who are getting prepared to go to college and maybe someday help their parents get legal status.
Back in the 60's and seventies my father in law crossed the border multiple times to work in the field crops of California and Az. He finally brought my mother in law with him and were able to finally get legal status then citizenship. They had 5 kids- oldest is a school bus driver, next is a school administrator, other has a cushy very well paid job with Farmers ins, my wife has 2 degrees and is a RNurse, and my brother in law was a teacher but now ironically- a US Border Patrol Agent!
Just want to put this out there and hopefully change some ways of thought where many believe they are just a burden to our society. 
In the end it will all sort itself out I guess.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

desertmud said:


> The whole reason they are driving prices down in the first place is because of greedy contractors who know they can take advantage.
> .


That's right! And That's my only bitch !

I Sub most of my hanging out to My favorite hangers but when they're tied up with the bigger D/Cs I can't just let the home sit there loaded!!! or I could loose It!
I Use a Hunduran crew that do a good job [not great!] But I Pay them the exact same as I would hang It for ! I know for a FACT where they're from the D/Cs are paying them almost half of what I do. I've had G/Cs tell me ..Yeah !!! Your making a killing off those guy!! :furious: I say NO! I Don't !
I pay any hanger I sub too what I have figured for the hang . PERIOD! I am a hanger myself It's hard work ,and any man deserves every penny he can get for It!! My money Is made off the finishing ..I give the hangers every dime I can , no matter who they are.


----------



## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Now there going to realize that there not being paid fairly. Next time they work for the other D/C there going to throw tacos at him.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Now there going to realize that there not being paid fairly. Next time they work for the other D/C there going to throw tacos at him.


I wish! Then maybe the prices would level out where they should be ..But here like most States the pay scale in the cities are CHIT! In the rural areas the pay Is a little better. I wish I could pay the hangers more !!!

And I never asked the hangers ..How much? I tell them what I can pay. And have never had a nose to nose about it.


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

moore said:


> That's right! And That's my only bitch !
> 
> I Sub most of my hanging out to My favorite hangers but when they're tied up with the bigger D/Cs I can't just let the home sit there loaded!!! or I could loose It!
> I Use a Hunduran crew that do a good job [not great!] But I Pay them the exact same as I would hang It for ! I know for a FACT where they're from the D/Cs are paying them almost half of what I do. I've had G/Cs tell me ..Yeah !!! Your making a killing off those guy!! :furious: I say NO! I Don't !
> I pay any hanger I sub too what I have figured for the hang . PERIOD! I am a hanger myself It's hard work ,and any man deserves every penny he can get for It!! My money Is made off the finishing ..I give the hangers every dime I can , no matter who they are.


 :thumbup::yes::thumbsup: MUCH Respect!!!!!!


----------



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Don't get me wrong here guys I am proud,and sometimes ashamed, to be an American. I absolutely *HATE* those illegals who laugh in our faces about tracking mud all over our laws. I've had some ...encounters...with the ones who think it's fun to rub it in our faces. But I also hate the GCs and DCs who think they _own_ people. It's the entire mentality of exploitation the burns me. Those types believe money makes them superior,well it doesn't, it just makes them comfy and out of touch with reality.


----------



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Strippers are better than construction workers in Nevada.

http://www.ktvn.com/story/27172812/nevada-court-says-strip-club-dancers-are-employees


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

evolve991 said:


> :thumbup::yes::thumbsup: MUCH Respect!!!!!!


I'm getting tired of waiting on ya!!!! I need a good hanger!!!!:whistling2:


----------

