# angle problem



## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

Lately i've been having a problem with my angles. It's not the work that i'm doing, the board crews are smashing there nails too much, this is due to soft drywall (toughrock brand) I do hit them 3 times but i find when i sand i still see them any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I chitbox my angles with 2.5" finish with 3.5 both tin flushers. I'm willing to try angleheads if that would make a difference?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

DLSdrywall said:


> Lately i've been having a problem with my angles. It's not the work that i'm doing, the board crews are smashing there nails too much, this is due to soft drywall (toughrock brand) I do hit them 3 times but i find when i sand i still see them any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I chitbox my angles with 2.5" finish with 3.5 both tin flushers. I'm willing to try angleheads if that would make a difference?


Is it just because the screws or nails are popped?


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Is it just because the screws or nails are popped?


It's because they drive there nails too far in the top angles when there tacking off there sheets..almost to the point of breaking paper


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

hit the holes with hotmud 1rst time around, then find the hangers and hit em up side the head. I dont know if an anglehead would help depending on how far the nail is down from angle (or in from) but kinda sounds like paper is breaking and you do have a blister or bubble showin thru


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

.....


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

How about no more nails on the job. 100% screws that will cure the problem :thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> hit the holes with hotmud 1rst time around, then find the hangers and hit em up side the head. I dont know if an anglehead would help depending on how far the nail is down from angle (or in from) but kinda sounds like paper is breaking and you do have a blister or bubble showin thru


What chris says:thumbsup:

We run around and pre-fill 1st, with a half and half mix, half hotmud, half AP mud. Not much you can do, I know your the same boat as us, the rockers supply their own nails and screws, nails are half the price of screws. Their not going to change their ways, so guess who pays the price,,,, us tapers.

Plus if you think about it, installing the tape is one coat, then the flush/glaze is the second coat. You end up lacking in one coat to fill a nail/screw, sometimes I find the screws are not that much better in hiding either.

May sound like B.S. to do, but since I know you have the same standards to meet as us, meaning 5 A holes to appease {DWC/Builder/Painter/union/HO} telling you if your work is a pass or not, what do you do

But we do get requested back from builders and painters, with comments of how well our angles look being one of their points. It allows us to remain in the ranks of the working poor:thumbup:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

When its really bad I sometimes double tape - would that work in your situation?


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

chris said:


> hit the holes with hotmud 1rst time around, then find the hangers and hit em up side the head. I dont know if an anglehead would help depending on how far the nail is down from angle (or in from) but kinda sounds like paper is breaking and you do have a blister or bubble showin thru


I try to hit some of the major ones when i pre-fill, and i do use a 50/50 mix, but when your by yourself it's a lot of work that your not payed for. i talked to the boardmen...which is like talking to the deaf, one sheet has screws and the rest have nails IMO hitting all the nails that are in is such a waste of time but when i see them on finish i'm so picky that i havew to coat them. Guess it's just a matter of bitting bullet and prefilling all of them. Thanks for the input!:yes:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> What chris says:thumbsup:
> 
> We run around and pre-fill 1st, with a half and half mix, half hotmud, half AP mud. Not much you can do, I know your the same boat as us, the rockers supply their own nails and screws, nails are half the price of screws. Their not going to change their ways, so guess who pays the price,,,, us tapers.
> 
> ...


i hear you, I'm in the same situation I'm the lead taper for my foreman, and whenever there's a new taper around they come to check my work so when i see those nail smashes it bug. I was looking for a quick fix, but prefill them all it is


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> It's because they drive there nails too far in the top angles when there tacking off there sheets..almost to the point of breaking paper


 Blister egg holes :furious: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f6/drywallers-using-nails-787/ Pre fill with hot mud....All of them!


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

Last board crew said f off taper do your job , i'm not paid to use screws, i'm like you must be paid to be a butcher then because i prefill half a day. Where i work knowone cares ewveryone just looks out for there own pockets


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> Last board crew said f off taper do your job , i'm not paid to use screws, i'm like you must be paid to be a butcher then because i prefill half a day. Where i work knowone cares ewveryone just looks out for there own pockets


 The animals don't have call-backs the year after the fact...
That's why they don't give a chit...Leave it for the next guy!:yes:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

moore said:


> The animals don't have call-backs the year after the fact...
> That's why they don't give a chit...Leave it for the next guy!:yes:


We're not paid for pre-filling, a good boardman can save you a day, and a bad boardman can cost you a day!!:furious:


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

You wouldn't work here using nails i haven't seen box of nails in 5 years


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

sdrdrywall said:


> You wouldn't work here using nails i haven't seen box of nails in 5 years


Just the way it is here:yes:

Rockers working on steal stud (commercial) get a penny more b/c it's steal and their screws supplied (fasteners). When they cross over to the shacks, they get a penny less(wood easier to do) and they supply their own fasteners. So if you tell them to use screws only in shacks, they want to be compensated. One being lost production dragging a screw gun around (which some of you will argue), then screws cost more than nails. So they may want a bump in pay of 2 to 3 cents maybe.

Union country over here, has it's good and bad points:yes:


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

I understand i spent my first ten years hanging only i started only nails two doubles in the field didn't own a screwgun them everything changed to screw only what u gonna do times change


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The g/c or d/c should supply the hangers there screws. 
But even then.. they would scrape through there van for some rusty ole nails just to save em the trouble of dragging a chord around. But HEY!! What if they bought a cordless drywall screw gun?  Not a new invention...Been round awhile now!

A Good ...no!....A decent hanging crew here is Impossible to find.
That's why If the job is 60 boards or less I hang it my G/D self!
My last 3 homes I got to team up with a D/c friend of mine ..He's the best Ive seen with the router ..Knows how to use the glue proper. I cut and carrie /help hold...while he zips the boxes out..then I'm off to cut the next sheet while he screws the board off...

I may be helping him hang on some of his homes soon.That will be nice..Hang a job --then go home! With no worries of the finish.

When It comes to nails verses screws....Screws are way easier to finish off . period!


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*angle problems*

board is crap-turns to mush. when it was hard as a wedding band, even a crack would stay in place, because the virgin face paper was glued tightly on. no air, great paper, great product. i remember when you couldnt back a missed screw out with your hand, now you can rip one staight out if your given to it. go screws only, maybe a couple nails , just to hold it- then screw. until you get onto the gun real well. otherwise cut and fill the nail holes before tape, cause the face paper is hollow now. hot mud could work like they said. maybe a nail spotter with a hot batch of 60, it would also fill those god forsaken recess's at the same time. and why do we need recess's on both side of the board anyway. unless its a flat recess or over 9ft cause of 54 inch, i think is counter productive. i bet you could fly through the angles in a 6000 ft, split in an hour. but like any thing else in life, its easy for me to talk- sittin on my ass and punching keys with my index finger. all the best- good luck. (by the way i was 3 scaffold high, hanging out past a v ridge in lakeside montana- the contractor yelled up- HEY harvey- you know the easiest way to do that, i pulled back onto the scaffold and said no how? he said- get someone else to do it. smart ass


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Harv...I had a g/c tell me a few months ago ..

''[YA know..I could find another d/c cheaper than you]''

I pulled out my cell phone and started writing numbers on the wall.
He said ...What are you doing ?:blink: I said ..These are some d/cs numbers you can call....He said....''You smartass ..you know i'm not calling anyone else''


I'm thinking..Then why fu%k with me about the price????:furious:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

If i have my way i'll be a service guy, with my company van, material paid, paid by the hour. Best part is I can bitch about all the butcher tapers lol...until then i have to pre-fill every god damn drywall imperfection do that almost perfect taping job. Learn how to perfect my style from you guys:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> The g/c or d/c should supply the hangers there screws.
> But even then.. they would scrape through there van for some rusty ole nails just to save em the trouble of dragging a chord around. But HEY!! What if they bought a cordless drywall screw gun?  Not a new invention...Been round awhile now!
> 
> A Good ...no!....A decent hanging crew here is Impossible to find.
> ...


They use to supply, but they saw more nails and screws on the floor, than in the sheets. Then if they did a side job........:whistling2:

Plus don't forget, we don't glue up here, too much poly on the walls. So think about how much screws they go through up here. If I remember right, a 10,000 sq (500 sht) house will eat up a whole box of screws, just in the field (if I remember right, someone may half to correct me:yes Plus I can no longer say the price difference between a box of screws or nails, but it must be enough of a difference by the end of the year


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> They use to supply, but they saw more nails and screws on the floor, than in the sheets. Then if they did a side job........:whistling2:
> 
> Plus don't forget, we don't glue up here, too much poly on the walls. So think about how much screws they go through up here. If I remember right, a 10,000 sq (500 sht) house will eat up a whole box of screws, just in the field (if I remember right, someone may half to correct me:yes Plus I can no longer say the price difference between a box of screws or nails, but it must be enough of a difference by the end of the year


10,000squ/ft of drywall isn't quite 500sheets bro. At the most you'd have 312.5 8 footers. Unless you meant the house itself was 10,000 squ/ft, in which case you'd have way more than 500 sheets. Either way, somethings screwy with the math on that one.
10,000 ft of board would definitely take a box of screws. I'd almost say two boxes.


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> 10,000squ/ft of drywall isn't quite 500sheets bro. At the most you'd have 312.5 8 footers. Unless you meant the house itself was 10,000 squ/ft, in which case you'd have way more than 500 sheets. Either way, somethings screwy with the math on that one.
> 10,000 ft of board would definitely take a box of screws. I'd almost say two boxes.


Ya 8000 screws a box i believe, for our company 50 bucks for screws and the same for nails. screws everywhere lol 6 screws per stud on ext walls, and 4 on partition walls no glue and go lol


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

A 12ft sheet of drywall with 16" centres would mean there would be 9 studs behind. Say 5 screws per row for an exterior wall....5x9=45
That's 45 screws per 12 ft sheet.
10,000squ/ft of drywall divided by 48 (total square footage in 12ft sheet) = 208sheets.
208 12ft sheets x 45 screws a sheet. = 9360 screws
There's 8000 screws in a box.
That's if you don't drop a single screw.
That also doesn't count if you first need to hang resilient channel, or extra screws in a butt joint or some drywall angle for backing. Etc etc...
So at least one box for sure for 10,000ft.
You were pretty close 2buck! :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

DLSdrywall said:


> Ya 8000 screws a box i believe, for our company 50 bucks for screws and the same for nails. screws everywhere lol 6 screws per stud on ext walls, and 4 on partition walls no glue and go lol


6 screws per stud on an exterior wall? Yuck! That's allot of screw spotting.
We do 5 on exterior, and 4 on partition's like you said.


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

nothing like an extra screw for good luck haha!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> 10,000squ/ft of drywall isn't quite 500sheets bro. At the most you'd have 312.5 8 footers. Unless you meant the house itself was 10,000 squ/ft, in which case you'd have way more than 500 sheets. Either way, somethings screwy with the math on that one.
> 10,000 ft of board would definitely take a box of screws. I'd almost say two boxes.


Yes some how I screwed the math up:blink:

When they talk sheets(Americans), they mean 12 footers, was thinking in my head, 21 12 footers is a 1000 sq (apx).... so 5x21= 100 sheets is 5000 sq, should of said 200 sheets (appx),,,,,so my boob, I will blame it on my e cigs

All numbers approximate, and now when you hear someone say, I have a 100 sheet job, there talking 12 footers, for their rough estimate. Just like we say "I'm doing a house that's AROUND , 5,000 sq and so on:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

1 4X12 SHEET ..20 screws . 16'' oc...glued. I dont spot field screws..


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> 1 4X12 SHEET ..20 screws . 16'' oc...glued. I dont spot field screws..


I envy you :yes:
It's just not worth it around here.
Too much polly.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*bad angles- in the out field*

until we say no more as a powerful voteing block, worse will get worser. i am not a doom and gloomer by nature. but i can see the perverbial writeing on the wall. think its bad now ? think of all the fairy princess's youve seen on jobs over the years- dictateing policy, when all your explaining fell on deaf ears. these people are different. they live in a fairy tale land, where all things are just a wish away. we as a voteing block could change this skullduggery, just by our talk on this site. IF we come to terms with the problems once and for all- and quit asking what the problems are-(you think they dont view this site daily) and stand on the premise, that the suppliers ARE AT FAULT. we put it on, so do we have to go to prodution and take a week out of my schedule to fix the problem. for sure the problem isnt in factory or production. that is the result, the problem isnt in management- kissin ass between- production and corperate. the problem is the lice in corperate. im in Harve.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I envy you :yes:
> It's just not worth it around here.
> Too much polly.


 Don't envy me quite yet.. New code In the city of Lynchburg VA.
Campbell county.... drywall screws every 7''!:furious:

I have 2 town houses coming up in that area in the fall..I told the g/c ....AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!! I wont do it!!!

He said ..If you want to work in Campbell you will!


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I envy you :yes:
> It's just not worth it around here.
> Too much polly.


 i get where you are comeing from. Fear is the thing that trys to rule me also. harve


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

''skullduggery'' That i had to goggle!:blink: 

Crafty deception or Trickery


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*cartel for the screw rep*



moore said:


> Don't envy me quite yet.. New code In the city of Lynchburg VA.
> Campbell county.... drywall screws every 7''!:furious:
> 
> I have 2 town houses coming up in that area in the fall..I told the g/c ....AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!! I wont do it!!!
> ...


 find out who the screw reps in county are and how much they paid old boy. dent with bearing and fill. harve. it aint abot cheating its about liveing. inspection got bought. find out from who?????????????


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> Don't envy me quite yet.. New code In the city of Lynchburg VA.
> Campbell county.... drywall screws every 7''!:furious:
> 
> I have 2 town houses coming up in that area in the fall..I told the g/c ....AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!! I wont do it!!!
> ...


Come on Moore, government passes a new law that cost you moore time and money, you just pass it on to the next guy right,,,,, no problem:whistling2::whistling2:

need a text that represents sarcasm:yes:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*leroy brown-*

do you think the glue companys and screw companys are at odds with each other- pussy ass glue companys are letting us fight their battles, instead of getting on board with us. now the screw companies are talking to state legislature and local big daddy politicians to say more is better, no offense. 4000 less screws a house times how many houses times how many countys times how many states times how many- i think we all get the picture, take care pal.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

harvey randall said:


> find out who the screw reps in county are and how much they paid old boy. dent with bearing and fill. harve. it aint abot cheating its about liveing. inspection got bought. find out from who?????????????


 HARV...I told the g/c...No problem!! When OR if i'm called back to fix any screw pops I will bill you for it ..Then you can bill the county!...This g/c is 72 years of age...He's just standing there with a big grin...He knows it's bullchit.. HARV...If there's a way around it...i'll find it!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> Don't envy me quite yet.. New code In the city of Lynchburg VA.
> Campbell county.... drywall screws every 7''!:furious:
> 
> I have 2 town houses coming up in that area in the fall..I told the g/c ....AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!! I wont do it!!!
> ...


It's weird to me that you guys have drywall code...
Do you honestly get inspections? :blink:



harvey randall said:


> i get where you are comeing from. Fear is the thing that trys to rule me also. harve


I have no clue what you're talking about half the time.
Do you ever not speak in metaphors?
There's no fear ruling me, there's too much flippen polly on the walls!
That's it! There's no crouching tiger hidden dragon message behind what I'm saying. 
There's allot of polly on the walls. It's not worth glueing our sheets.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cut the poly....cut the poly..cut the poly.. cut the poly.. cut the poly..moor


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> cut the poly....cut the poly..cut the poly.. cut the poly.. cut the poly..moor


 That would go over great....
It's everywhere! lol.
Every ceiling and every exterior wall.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*poly on the wall*



2buckcanuck said:


> They use to supply, but they saw more nails and screws on the floor, than in the sheets. Then if they did a side job........:whistling2:
> 
> Plus don't forget, we don't glue up here, too much poly on the walls. So think about how much screws they go through up here. If I remember right, a 10,000 sq (500 sht) house will eat up a whole box of screws, just in the field (if I remember right, someone may half to correct me:yes Plus I can no longer say the price difference between a box of screws or nails, but it must be enough of a difference by the end of the year


 sheet rolled polyethylene-hde probably- runnin temp of 185- i think. moisture barrier, right. they tried to pull that crap on us too. where does 97 % of the moisture come from and what happens when glass or any insulation get wet ? (excludeing a/b shot in foam) man that is the dark ages. keep moisture out, how ? moisture barrier, WHAT ? poly, WHERE-------------------exterior- where it belongs. just a thought - good luck- it was an uphill battle for me also. like telling a joke too a third grader and the trying to explain the punch line. dont give up- sooner or later some one will hear.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> cut the poly....cut the poly..cut the poly.. cut the poly.. cut the poly..moor


But we will freeze to death with our windy winters









That's your plan aint it, 1812 all over again:furious::furious:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*freezn to your death*



2buckcanuck said:


> But we will freeze to death with our windy winters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 truly, you are out side of your mind. and i dig it. thanks


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> That would go over great....
> It's everywhere! lol.
> Every ceiling and every exterior wall.


 A slice on the stud or floor joist/truss ..Just enough for a 1/8 bead of glue...HELL!! we did it here in the late 80s


But your there...I'm here... Humidity is a killer here for the poly That's why It didn't work...Just like the screws every 7'' won't work ..but some pencil neck will find that out a few years from now ,,and say ''hey we should have listened to that ole hillbilly drywall man...He knew what he was talking about...:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

harvey randall said:


> truly, you are out side of your mind. and i dig it. thanks


Thank you harv
And I agree with your comment with a bevell on one side of the sheet, but on the other hand, the rockers would half to think more, which could be dangerous:whistling2::yes:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*precision tapeing*



PrecisionTaping said:


> I envy you :yes:
> It's just not worth it around here.
> Too much polly.


 didnt mean what you thought i meant, ole kid. the term could best be construed as projection in phy. terms. i meant im scared.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*angles-bad*

team up on em. talking to tapers is like talking to the wind. thats why we tape, caUSE WE CAN WORK ALONE AND STILL MAKE MONEY. until now. now we have to band together-to stop these corp , from stealing our profit margin through deciet.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

we used to fight the bigger guys, cause they got the goyen price, i mean the best price against the goyen. now in my country mormons get 100. per thousaND BETTER. larry page, and joel messerly, brad toleman, a few others. in every community that is the cases. so no mo. lets on this web site say no more tokissing that much saGGY. plus they get fed down the pike by suppliees aND THE MAIN vien. i am not right- who agrees.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Thank you harv
> And I agree with your comment with a bevell on one side of the sheet, but on the other hand, the rockers would half to think more, which could be dangerous:whistling2::yes:


We have TE/SE board, tapered edge, square edge, Dont you guys?? I will show you soon.


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> It's weird to me that you guys have drywall code...
> Do you honestly get inspections? :blink:
> 
> 
> ...


 
I know from doing private/custom homes the architech/designer has all these crazy ideas to make a house better screws every 8" ceiling to floor. Resilent channel screwed every 10 inches. Poly is chaulked down every stud. The funniest thing i've seen is poly is stapled then the staples are taped, because of air leakage:blink:. I blame architech trying to be better then everyone else. Too many episodes of Holmes on Homes


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

DLSdrywall said:


> I know from doing private/custom homes the architech/designer has all these crazy ideas to make a house better screws every 8" ceiling to floor. Resilent channel screwed every 10 inches. Poly is chaulked down every stud. The funniest thing i've seen is poly is stapled then the staples are taped, because of air leakage:blink:. I blame architech trying to be better then everyone else. Too many episodes of Holmes on Homes


Hahaha! Ya I've heard of that too! The staple holes being tuck taped. Haha. Never seen it though.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> I know from doing private/custom homes the architech/designer has all these crazy ideas to make a house better screws every 8" ceiling to floor. Resilent channel screwed every 10 inches. Poly is chaulked down every stud. The funniest thing i've seen is poly is stapled then the staples are taped, because of air leakage:blink:. I blame architech trying to be better then everyone else. Too many episodes of Holmes on Homes


As for taping the vapor barrier it only makes sense to keep the barrier in tact, right? What's the point of having one if it leaks everywhere? Vapor barriers confuse me, even though they are a good idea.

And Harvey, moisture doesn't only come from outside....there's a lot of condensation when heated air meets cold surfaces:yes: Building science is cool:thumbsup:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*on board te/se- what is that ?*



cazna said:


> We have TE/SE board, tapered edge, square edge, Dont you guys?? I will show you soon.


 didnt you guys in new zealand kick out the bansters and the euro ? how cool.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*vaper barrier*



SlimPickins said:


> As for taping the vapor barrier it only makes sense to keep the barrier in tact, right? What's the point of having one if it leaks everywhere? Vapor barriers confuse me, even though they are a good idea.
> 
> And Harvey, moisture doesn't only come from outside....there's a lot of condensation when heated air meets cold surfaces:yes: Building science is cool:thumbsup:


 i get it slim- but more bullets are comeing from over there, so ill take cover over here, besides a good primer and a newer heating system science wise in the last twenty, cuts most indoor humidity to less then 3%. but whatever, why pumel the rock needlessly, when it could stay on the exterior. just a thought


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> As for taping the vapor barrier it only makes sense to keep the barrier in tact, right? What's the point of having one if it leaks everywhere? Vapor barriers confuse me, even though they are a good idea.
> 
> And Harvey, moisture doesn't only come from outside....there's a lot of condensation when heated air meets cold surfaces:yes: Building science is cool:thumbsup:


This is true, that is why i believe in spray foam which allready has a vapour barrier built in, and much less factors surounding the "air leakage" with a lot less steps to achieve an optimal building envelope. :thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

harvey randall said:


> i get it slim- but more bullets are comeing from over there, so ill take cover over here, besides a good primer and a newer heating system science wise in the last twenty, cuts most indoor humidity to less then 3%. but whatever, why pumel the rock needlessly, when it could stay on the exterior. just a thought


I like the idea of "paint on" vapor barriers I've been hearing about. And I agree that you want to keep moisture out, yes, and that attention should be focused more on the exterior. Don't get me started on airtight drywall assemblies. Although.....there's a low energy house north of here (north in Montana = cold ) and they had a $7 dollar heating bill in February last year 





DLSdrywall said:


> This is true, that is why i believe in spray foam which allready has a vapour barrier built in, and much less factors surounding the "air leakage" with a lot less steps to achieve an optimal building envelope. :thumbsup:


I like foam too, for it's properties....but then you've got to design an air moving system, and I always wonder what happens to moisture that gets between foam and the building materials. Just curiosity, mind you.


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> I like the idea of "paint on" vapor barriers I've been hearing about. And I agree that you want to keep moisture out, yes, and that attention should be focused more on the exterior. Don't get me started on airtight drywall assemblies. Although.....there's a low energy house north of here (north in Montana = cold ) and they had a $7 dollar heating bill in February last year
> 
> 
> 
> I like foam too, for it's properties....but then you've got to design an air moving system, and I always wonder what happens to moisture that gets between foam and the building materials. Just curiosity, mind you.


In my experience with foam it has to be used "efficiently" For instance Ihad a guy foam everything floor joists, joist pockets, walls, ceilings, attic, high parts. ran about 45,000$ range, after the drywall was up and i had taped it to second coat he complained because he could hardly breathe. He suffocated his house, zero air flow.You bring up a good point about the moisture between the substrate and the foam. Ecspecially in a basement if you foam the foundation walls, and the natural properties of cement is to breathe..would that cause the foundation to crack?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> In my experience with foam it has to be used "efficiently" For instance Ihad a guy foam everything floor joists, joist pockets, walls, ceilings, attic, high parts. ran about 45,000$ range, after the drywall was up and i had taped it to second coat he complained because he could hardly breathe. He suffocated his house, zero air flow.You bring up a good point about the moisture between the substrate and the foam. Ecspecially in a basement if you foam the foundation walls, and the natural properties of cement is to breathe..would that cause the foundation to crack?


You can't foam an entire house without an air-mover....anyone who does so is either stupid or hasn't done their research. Same thing applies for air-tight assemblies achieved with caulk and gaskets. HRV is a MUST.

I don't know about cracking, the moisture will tend to gather somewhere or go out the open side....however, if both sides are sealed (tar outside, foam inside) the concrete could possibly deteriorate from moisture and not being allowed to fully cure (how long does it take for concrete to _fully _cure?)...and I suppose that could lead to cracking under stress/load. I'm not sure about moisture in concrete....I'm just a drywaller after all!


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

SlimPickins said:


> You can't foam an entire house without an air-mover....anyone who does so is either stupid or hasn't done their research. Same thing applies for air-tight assemblies achieved with caulk and gaskets. HRV is a MUST.
> 
> I don't know about cracking, the moisture will tend to gather somewhere or go out the open side....however, if both sides are sealed (tar outside, foam inside) the concrete could possibly deteriorate from moisture and not being allowed to fully cure (how long does it take for concrete to _fully _cure?)...and I suppose that could lead to cracking under stress/load. I'm not sure about moisture in concrete....I'm just a drywaller after all!


Far too much thinking for guys that deal with mud and drywall lol


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> You can't foam an entire house without an air-mover....anyone who does so is either stupid or hasn't done their research. Same thing applies for air-tight assemblies achieved with caulk and gaskets. HRV is a MUST.
> 
> I don't know about cracking, the moisture will tend to gather somewhere or go out the open side....however, if both sides are sealed (tar outside, foam inside) the concrete could possibly deteriorate from moisture and not being allowed to fully cure (how long does it take for concrete to _fully _cure?)...and I suppose that could lead to cracking under stress/load. I'm not sure about moisture in concrete....I'm just a drywaller after all!


You can blame us Canucks for the air tight home, it started back in the 1980's, in Saskatchewan, it was called the R-2000 home. Problem was, it was so air tight, that people were getting sick, it was later they added the HRV (from gossip I was told).

Just the other day, a GC and I were talking about the amount of poly we use. I think he had a valid point about us using tyvak or typar now, when we never use to, is the poly turely needed any more. One of the reasons we use the poly up here in the great white north (other than moister) is as a wind break, so with the typar and tyvak ??????? (google it:whistling2.

Plus from my college days of drafting, I remember a teacher saying it takes concrete 100 years to cure. Then after that, it breaks down. Or he was pulling our legs, since he knew half of his class was like this all the time


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> Far too much thinking for guys that deal with mud and drywall lol


I know, I should go back to surfing the web for pictures of animals that Australians have intercourse with, and looking at p0rn on Redtube.:whistling2::jester:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

SlimPickins said:


> I know, I should go back to surfing the web for pictures of animals that Australians have intercourse with, and looking at p0rn on Redtube.:whistling2::jester:[/QU
> 
> :furious:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> SlimPickins said:
> 
> 
> > I know, I should go back to surfing the web for pictures of animals that Australians have intercourse with, and looking at p0rn on Redtube.:whistling2::jester:[/QU
> ...


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> gazman said:
> 
> 
> > Hahahaha! I missed that australian bit... Your reaction made me re-read slim's post. Haha!
> ...


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> PrecisionTaping said:
> 
> 
> > At least he spelt Australian with a capital letter.:
> ...


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

All this talk about concrete breathing..... 

Think about it - it does well either above ground, below ground or submerged in water. Once the cement has hardened you can kick it with your foot all you want - its still hard.

Do you think concrete bridge supports below water are deteriorating from lack of air?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Mudshark said:


> All this talk about concrete breathing.....
> 
> Think about it - it does well either above ground, below ground or submerged in water. Once the cement has hardened you can kick it with your foot all you want - its still hard.
> 
> Do you think concrete bridge supports below water are deteriorating from lack of air?


:blink: Scary...


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*the older the cement-the less chance of a cement nail*

100 years, thats what they say, for cure. course 95 % happens in the first 30 days. man thats like cosmic. kinda like tapers putting 70 % of the mud on in the first 30 % of the time, and the remaining 30 % in the 70 % of time left, (not counting drying time) ncdt ncdt ncdt. If you wanted it dry, then why did you turn off the heat ? CAUSE IT WAS HOT:confused1:, no one has more more answers then the gc or the home owner, when they feel like they are in control, of a 500-th. bank roll. and conversely, when its time to take a dump on a sub- any sub- much confusion in their minds, except blame-game. seems like walls need to be like triple or double pane glass-dead air, or dead space or kryton and or argon great inert gases. well all we get is dead air space if we are lucky. paint should seal interior, hdpe is never put on well enough to seal out a spider. when insulation gets wet, it stops working. its both sides responsibility in and out. course- screwing rock on and and then finishing for aesthetics seems like, well i'll dye my hair red and see if i can find someone to adopt a 57 year old buck tooth, has been. cant we just open a F****** window ? interior humidity has nothing to do with hdpe vaper barrier. very few inspecters know what you know. they are more like college professors- never worked in the real world. and if they once did, not today.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> PrecisionTaping said:
> 
> 
> > At least he spelt Australian with a capital letter.:
> ...


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Get off our sheep auzzie


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Those two kids in that bottom pic comes from this ad a few years ago.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> You can blame us Canucks for the air tight home, it started back in the 1980's, in Saskatchewan, it was called the R-2000 home. Problem was, it was so air tight, that people were getting sick, it was later they added the HRV (from gossip I was told).
> 
> Just the other day, a GC and I were talking about the amount of poly we use. I think he had a valid point about us using tyvak or typar now, when we never use to, is the poly turely needed any more. One of the reasons we use the poly up here in the great white north (other than moister) is as a wind break, so with the typar and tyvak ??????? (google it:whistling2.
> 
> Plus from my college days of drafting, I remember a teacher saying it takes concrete 100 years to cure. Then after that, it breaks down. Or he was pulling our legs, since he knew half of his class was like this all the time


F***ing Canadites.:furious:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*angles*

we have two canadites runnig for presidential office, cant stand either one, maybe its time for a canadian, this is a wild turkey thought. harve


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

75 posts 5 days

I believe no one on here even works

get back to works slackers!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

You can count!:thumbup:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

moore said:


> You can count!:thumbup:


I don't have to know how to count :whistling2:


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