# Angle heads?



## cazna

Hello all
Im after a few thoughts on angle heads, all the brands say that theres are the best, Northstar say use straight out of the box have a good clip system and well tested and slightly different sizes, tapetech and drywall master have the little easy roll wheel which makes them glide better, some people like columbia??? so some help on this would be appreciated they are expensive little things and im thinking of getting a set and want the best, Thanks.


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## Saul_Surfaces

I own Tapetech and Drywall Master heads and have much better luck with the 3" Tapetech easy roll than my 2.5" Drywall Master. The 2" Tapetech is pretty fair too, and I'd consider trying Columbia heads based on the way their flat boxes run. My goldblatt 7" flat box is nasty by comparison, so I wouldn't be very keen to try their angle heads.


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## Bill from Indy

ive had ames/tapetech/concorde/columbia and now northstar..the northstar and the best of the bunch in my opinion....and they do run true out of the box..I have a columbia too that has the unbreakable blades and I would have felt better giving the money to a stripper..worthless, again, in my opinion


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## cazna

Thanks for the reply guys, I have a goldblatt 7" angle box and 2" and 3.5" angle head and its not working out for me, interesting what you said about the angle box being nasty, i have nothing to compare, the auto tools arnt a big thing in nz yet and the sales reps havent a clue so all my info has to come from trying and ballsing it up. The 3.5 head tracks all over the place and the 2" seems to leave to much of a build up, prob my inexperience wouldnt be helping but it makes it harder if the tools are not the best. I have been using the flushers but i think the angle heads can produce a sharper corner with less pushing and i want to do the best i can, i have some top end larger homes that are square/box stopped coming up so really want to impress.

Northstar and drywallmaster seem to be rated well? Someone posted there new tapetech was all out of alinement and made in china, Got no idea on columbia or blueline, has anyone had a go with the new bone heads from drywall master, are the blades stainless? if so then that would be a plus for me as i live is a coastal area and everything rusts so i have to really oil the blades. And those wheels could be good and keeping it on track?? Maybe??


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## Saul_Surfaces

cazna, by way of clarification, it's the goldblatt flat box I consider nasty. That would make we worry about trying their angle stuff, but beyond that isn't particularly relevant. sorry for the confusion


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## Kiwiman

cazna said:


> Hello all
> Im after a few thoughts on angle heads, all the brands say that theres are the best, Northstar say use straight out of the box have a good clip system and well tested and slightly different sizes, tapetech and drywall master have the little easy roll wheel which makes them glide better, some people like columbia??? so some help on this would be appreciated they are expensive little things and im thinking of getting a set and want the best, Thanks.


 Like anything....You get what you pay for. For the sake of spending an extra couple of hundred on tools that will earn you thousands back in the long run...even the most expensive tools are cheap, having to justify the price too your Mrs will be the hard part.
I've got northstar heads and have no complaints (apart from the user), another Kiwi on the forum (croozer) imported a full set of columbia's and you would need a hammer and a chisel to pry them out of his cold dead hands, his columbia ext handle feels a lot better than my northstar, the brake on my handle bites the flesh behind my little finger when I release the brake...that wakes me up pretty quick. 
Just don't go for the cheap ones...afterall, we are supposed to be tradesman and not home handyman.


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## cazna

Saul_Surfaces said:


> cazna, by way of clarification, it's the goldblatt flat box I consider nasty. That would make we worry about trying their angle stuff, but beyond that isn't particularly relevant. sorry for the confusion


 
Oops my mess up, i see you said flatbox not angle box now.


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## cazna

Kiwiman said:


> Like anything....You get what you pay for. For the sake of spending an extra couple of hundred on tools that will earn you thousands back in the long run...even the most expensive tools are cheap, having to justify the price too your Mrs will be the hard part.
> I've got northstar heads and have no complaints (apart from the user), another Kiwi on the forum (croozer) imported a full set of columbia's and you would need a hammer and a chisel to pry them out of his cold dead hands, his columbia ext handle feels a lot better than my northstar, the brake on my handle bites the flesh behind my little finger when I release the brake...that wakes me up pretty quick.
> Just don't go for the cheap ones...afterall, we are supposed to be tradesman and not home handyman.


 
I priced up the tools a few years ago when i decided to make the move, about $13,000 for a set of tapetach northstar columbia etc when the exchange rate wasnt as good, but i found someone selling a set of new goldblatt for $7000, i figured it was just a big store mark up was the price difference and (someone who did support and sell finishpro with many posts to support them but then changed his mind, not going to mention who) lead me to believe they were same as any other, i have no problem with the taper or pump and the boxes etc do work but just not at the level of the other brands and i myself want to do the best i can, so now i have a goldblatt taper and pump, tape tech boxes northstar handle and will soon be upgrading the angle heads when i can figure out which brand to chose, so its still costing me around the 13k anyway.

And thanks to the drywallmaster rep for that pm, good work.


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## Saul_Surfaces

cazna said:


> I priced up the tools a few years ago when i decided to make the move, about $13,000 for a set of tapetach northstar columbia etc when the exchange rate wasnt as good, but i found someone selling a set of new goldblatt for $7000, i figured it was just a big store mark up was the price difference and (someone who did support and sell finishpro with many posts to support them but then changed his mind, not going to mention who) lead me to believe they were same as any other, i have no problem with the taper or pump and the boxes etc do work but just not at the level of the other brands and i myself want to do the best i can, so now i have a goldblatt taper and pump, tape tech boxes northstar handle and will soon be upgrading the angle heads when i can figure out which brand to chose, so its still costing me around the 13k anyway.
> 
> And thanks to the drywallmaster rep for that pm, good work.


yeah, kudos to Drywall Master for their interest in customer service. Haven't seen that from the other big companies I've contacted (other than my local supplier--Leading Edge--They're great too). DM spent an hour with me on video conference with tech support for my DM angle head that I haven't learned to love. Maybe mine's just too old. I bought it used on eBay(though it looks in great condition).


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## JustMe

Which 3 1/2" wheeled version the better one:

- Tape Tech: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Angle-Heads/TapeTech-EasyRoll-Angle-Head1

- DM's Bone Head: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Angle-Heads/DrywallMaster-SpeedWheel-Bone-Head


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## cazna

Wow this is an old thread, Funny to read it back now, What a journey its been.

My tapeworm has overtakin the DM for my finish head now so the DM is tapecoat, But my goldblatt can do that as well, This thread was pre mudrunner for me, That tool changed the game and made it happen.

As for which is the best, Tough call, They are prob the same but is tapetech china and DM usa??

DM will support you, Will tapetech and all wall??


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## chris

have to say tapetech:thumbup:we have a 8 yr old little 1 we use for taping never had to do ANYTHING to it. also have bigger 1 with wheels bout 4 yr old now DITTO.Have not tried dm or anything other than premier or tapetech they are probably all bout same anymore just havnt had to shop 4 one:whistling2:


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## JustMe

Thanks cazna, chris.

I just don't know. Tape Tech seems to have let their quality slide in some other things, so I'm not sure what I might end up with when it comes to their wheeled heads, although maybe they're good.

From what others have said, it sounds like DM's customer service is better overall. And with TT having gone through bankruptcy once fairly recently, are they going to be around for the next long while, or will they end up another Northstar?

Doubt is making me lean to DM's Bone Heads right now, unless Tape Tech's wheeled heads are somewhat better.


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## Capt-sheetrock

I have TT, tapeworm,premire,columbia heads. 

TT won't talk to ANYONE, your on your own,

Tapeworm is okay, premire is like outa bussiness,,,

Columbia, will talk to you, help you fix the problem, send you a vidieo on how to fix it, and even send you a part for free every once in awhile.:thumbsup:


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## JustMe

Thanks, Capt.

I have pretty much all Columbia, including their smaller angle heads. They do have a 3" wheeled version now, but not a 3 1/2" one.


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## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> Thanks, Capt.
> 
> I have pretty much all Columbia, including their smaller angle heads. They do have a 3" wheeled version now, but not a 3 1/2" one.


I didn't know they have a wheeled version, (I really am getting too old). 

I use the mudrunner, so the wheel isn't that big an issue as it was with the corner box. The point i was trying to make is this,,, Columbia cares and they will go to WHATEVER means it takes to get your tool running and staying right that it takes,,,, there is NO OTHER company out there that cares about you like that!

Since we are talking pennies between the price, why not go with the company that remembers you AFTER you buy the tool.

I'm through preaching now.


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## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I didn't know they have a wheeled version, (I really am getting too old).


It's pretty new, and I'm not seeing it being advertised on some online suppliers sites.

I was just checking Columbia's site and came across this April 14, 2010 entry in their What's New section: 'Newly designed wheeled Angle Heads in 3" & 3.5" size . We still have the non-wheeled version as the standard choice, just specify!'

So maybe they have a 3 1/2" wheeled version as well, that no one is advertising? Or maybe it's an error and they're just meaning the 3"? Something for me to ask Columbia about on their thread.




Capt-sheetrock said:


> Since we are talking pennies between the price, why not go with the company that remembers you AFTER you buy the tool.


I usually don't take being ignored for overly long. At some point I'll go away. UNless they maybe have something I want pretty badly and can't get elsewhere.

Just for the fun of it, some Demotivators from a favourite site, despair.com:

Customer Disservice

Because we're not satisfied until you're not satisfied

Customer Care

If we really cared for the customer we'd send them somewhere better.

Disservice

It takes months to find a customer, but only seconds to lose one... the good news is that we should run out of them in no time.

Marketing

Because making it look good now is more important than providing adequate support later

Service

View all customers as beautiful buds that must be cultivated, watered, and periodically buried under manure.


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## chris

The Cadilac:thumbup:


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## JustMe

chris said:


> The Cadilac:thumbup:


Made by? I'm not seeing any name on it.


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## mudslingr

I've never used the wheeled heads. How are they different when using ?


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## 2buckcanuck

mudslingr said:


> I've never used the wheeled heads. How are they different when using ?


No difference, the wheels only kick in when the angle is acute (under 90 degrees) other than that, they sit there and and do nothing.

So it's not like the wheels in gauge all the time.

So you would half to find a crooked angle, run a head with wheels, and one without, to see if you feel a difference.

But mine has wheels too so...........:whistling2: just saying


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## chris

*Tapetech Angle Heads*

cant explain how they just are better.Almost 20 yrs into this,had a Premier to start...not bad heads seemed like we were adjusting,fixing,replacing parts quite often :blink: my tapetech heads have NEVER been fooled with,,peerrrfect every angle.It also feels like you cant pump an angle wrong,the wheels help keep you square :thumbsup: Hadnt heard about DM til I found this site,sound like a new company,also it sounds like they require alot of customer service. I prefer to not have to call a rep about tools,we pay enough $ for them they shouldnt need much repair if any at all


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## JustMe

chris said:


> cant explain how they just are better.Almost 20 yrs into this,had a Premier to start...not bad heads seemed like we were adjusting,fixing,replacing parts quite often :blink: my tapetech heads have NEVER been fooled with,,peerrrfect every angle.It also feels like you cant pump an angle wrong,the wheels help keep you square :thumbsup: Hadnt heard about DM til I found this site,sound like a new company,also it sounds like they require alot of customer service. I prefer to not have to call a rep about tools,we pay enough $ for them they shouldnt need much repair if any at all


Thanks, Chris.

History I found on DM:

HISTORY
Behind Drywall Master Tools Drywall
Master Tools was started by Larry
D’Souza, a seasoned veteran of the
automatic taping tool industry.
Prior to founding Drywall Master Tools,
Larry and his partners helped shape the
industry in 1980 by starting one of the
first companies to sell a complete set of
automatic taping tools... By 1987, they
were selling more automatic drywall
taping tools than all other manufacturers...
with dealers in the US, Canada, United
Kingdom, France, South Africa, Australia
and New Zealand.
Twenty-three years ago, Larry and his
colleagues transformed the industry
from almost a pure rental market, to a
market where contractors could own
tools at a lower total cost of ownership.
In this tradition, Drywall Master Tools is
continuing the commitment to provide
contractors with the ability to own the best
quality taping tools.

How old are your TapeTech heads? Pics of their latest wheeled heads look different in some ways from your pic: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Angle-Heads/TapeTech-EasyRoll-Angle-Head1

Maybe their latest ones are even better. Or maybe not. Maybe they're still the same, operation wise. Lots of maybes.

I'm thinking if you haven't tried DMs, hard to say if TT's are the Cadillac. Or if they were, that they still are.

One concern I have about some of the newer stuff coming out from some companies is that they're moving to different suppliers - eg. China. What once was, quality wise, might no longer be from some companies. Or if they're still making them or having them supplied from the same outfits, they've downgraded the quality requirements to maybe boost profits. Harvest what they can, while they can, from a well established name. 

When I was doing tree work, I bought a pair of loppers that were great. Bought another pair a couple years later - same name, same model #. They weren't so great.

Heard the same about some drywall finishing tools. What was, no longer is.

And then there's some tools and companies that seem to be getting better in ways than they once were.


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## JustMe

A little something to add to my previous comment in my last post of



JustMe said:


> When I was doing tree work, I bought a pair of loppers that were great. Bought another pair a couple years later - same name, same model #. They weren't so great.


That 2nd pair of loppers looked better than my 1st pair - nice looking black painted handles and cutting blades, rather than white handles and unpainted blades. The colour change made them look tougher and more 'manly', and more expensive looking. Maybe they painted the blades as well to try and hide the poorer quality of the metal used for them - quite a bit softer when compared to my older ones.

Kind of reminds me of one of the Demotivators I posted to Capt. on the previous page in this thread:



JustMe said:


> Marketing
> 
> Because making it look good now is more important than providing adequate support later


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## 2buckcanuck

Like your post # 23, on the history of DM

Got me to thinking, some of the older tapers than me ( those evil baby boomers that cazna says screwed everything up) Said it was the worst thing that happened when the tools came out on the market for anyone to buy. Because......... The companies use to supply to the subs, and it controlled who could come into the market. But when the tools could be bought buy anyone, it meant that any Tom, D1ck or Harry thought he could become a taper, which started to drive the price down. Then the companies stopped supplying, and expected you to buy your own tools. Which became money out of your pocket, and more over head.

They also said you could abuse the hell out of the tools, they were rented so..... if something broke down, you would have a replacement the next day.....

Makes you wonder if they were right


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> Like your post # 23, on the history of DM
> 
> Got me to thinking, some of the older tapers than me ( those evil baby boomers that cazna says screwed everything up) Said it was the worst thing that happened when the tools came out on the market for anyone to buy. Because......... The companies use to supply to the subs, and it controlled who could come into the market. But when the tools could be bought buy anyone, it meant that any Tom, D1ck or Harry thought he could become a taper, which started to drive the price down. Then the companies stopped supplying, and expected you to buy your own tools. Which became money out of your pocket, and more over head.
> 
> They also said you could abuse the hell out of the tools, they were rented so..... if something broke down, you would have a replacement the next day.....
> 
> Makes you wonder if they were right


Yeah, some innovations can be a wonderful thing for some, and maybe not so wonderful in the end for others.

Another Demotivator, from despair.com:

_Innovation_
_If it can make your job easier, it can probably make it irrelevant._


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## Drywaller

I have been using Columbias heads also and they have been working perfectly out of the box for years.
I know a lot of people buy from all wall.But I always buy my tools from John Mason at Mason drywall supply out of Texas,Nice guy and everything is always cheaper than all wall.I can barely squeeze a t-shirt out of all-wall.
I remember a few years ago I was looking for a slightly curved trowel,So I called John Mason and asked him to look over a few trowels and send me one that is not too much of a curve,He sent me 6 or 7 trowels and a return postage and said pick the best one and return the rest on me.You dont see that kind of customer service anymore.
Here is the difference for prices,
http://www.masondrywall.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=80

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Angle-Heads/TapeTech-EasyRoll-Angle-Head1


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## Tim0282

And they have THE coolest T-shirts around, anywhere! The drywall guy on stilts standing on a bench, holding every tool he can. Great guys down there in Texas!


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## Mudslinger

....


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## JustMe

Mudslinger said:


> (except for the color).


You, too? 

Not saying there's anything wrong with gold colour, though. But I'm (usually) not a 'gold' person - except when it's real. There's probably a lot out there who do like gold for a colour.

I've wondered why DM hasn't gotten around to colouring theirs in some manner (or doesn't anymore). Maybe to keep the cost down? &/or they think it appeals to drywall finishers who have a 'minimalist' mindset? &/or .....?


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## kwendz

ive used tape tech with the wheels.... works nice... i found northstar has a better finish/ covers better... helped a fellow taper out... he was using a columbia 3 inch... he loved my northstar angle head alot better.


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## Tim0282

Tis a shame we can't buy NorthStar anymore. Although I did buy a NorthStar extendable box handle a month ago from a supplier that had some left over before the went kapoot.


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## JustMe

kwendz said:


> ive used tape tech with the wheels.... works nice... i found northstar has a better finish/ covers better... helped a fellow taper out... he was using a columbia 3 inch... he loved my northstar angle head alot better.


Maybe that could be due in part to how well each head is set up? We used my 3" Columbia the other day on another guy's Apla-Tech Cannon. He didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with it when compared to his Northstar angle head. He liked it enough that he mentioned about maybe getting a Columbia, as his Northstar needs some TLC and he thought about putting money towards a new head, rather than toward his existing one.


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## JustMe

I ordered in a 3.5" wheeled Bonehead the other week, as I wanted to try a wheeled version and Columbia said their's needed a fix before putting it out. Otherwise that's the one I would've got.

I was calipering today the angle heads I have:

- 2 1/2" Columbia's blade measures 2 1/2" from tip of blade to where it intersects with the outside of the side blade
- 3" Columbia - 3"
- 3 1/2" Drywall Master Bonehead - 3 3/16"

Bonehead's size claims seems fairly undersized. Wonder what standard the sizing of these is supposed to be going by, or if each company is just picking their own standard.

With 3/16" difference only between my 3" and 3.5", wonder if and how that could affect performance, when running larger to smaller, or smaller to larger in size.


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

JustMe said:


> I ordered in a 3.5" wheeled Bonehead the other week, as I wanted to try a wheeled version and Columbia said their's needed a fix before putting it out. Otherwise that's the one I would've got.
> 
> I was calipering today the angle heads I have:
> 
> - 2 1/2" Columbia's blade measures 2 1/2" from tip to where it intersects with the outside of the side blade
> - 3" Columbia - 3"
> - 3 1/2" Drywall Master Bonehead - 3 3/16"
> 
> Bonehead's size claims seems fairly undersized. Wonder what standard the sizing of these is supposed to be going by, or if each company is just picking their own standard.
> 
> With 3/16" difference only between my 3" and 3.5", wonder how that might affect performance, if at all.


Not to reply for any other company but our 3.5" Anglehead is actually 3.6" but we just round it down so that it flows better. 2", 2.5", 3", and 3.5"


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## Tim0282

Safer to state on the shy side rather than the high side...


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## JustMe

Tim0282 said:


> Safer to state on the shy side rather than the high side...


Yeah, now I Don't have a true 3 1/2" like I was looking to have. Funny how that can make one a little cautious about other claims from a manufacturer.


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## JustMe

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> our 3.5" Anglehead is actually 3.6"


Thanks for making me feel worse.


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## smisner50s

JustMe said:


> Yeah, now I Don't have a true 3 1/2" like I was looking to have. Funny how that can make one a little cautious about other claims from a manufacturer.


 all motors are rated the same way my quad is a 450 ...but the motor is only 439cc...a honda 50cc is only47cc never understood why


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## JustMe

smisner50s said:


> all motors are rated the same way my quad is a 450 ...but the motor is only 439cc...a honda 50cc is only47cc never understood why


I don't try to earn my living with a quad. 

"why" is maybe because it sounds like you're getting more than you really are? And if the other manufacturers are doing it, then you have to do it, too? 

439 to 450, and 47 to 50, aren't so bad. At least the 439 is closer to 450 than to 425. The 47 could maybe be called a 45, but it's not bad either.

With the Bonehead, it's closer to 3" than 3 1/2". At least it is when I use Columbia's heads to compare how they label their head sizes. So the 3 1/2" Bonehead seems just an oversized 3", like Columbia/Aaron says their 3 1/2" is oversized, but they call it a 3 1/2". At least Columbia isn't selling theirs as being a 4".


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## JustMe

Maybe an undersized 3 1/2" Bonehead is why cazna still wasn't happy enough with the results he was getting till he stepped up to a 4" Tapeworm? Wonder what he might have thought if he'd been using a 3 1/2" Columbia.


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## JustMe

JustMe said:


> Maybe an undersized 3 1/2" Bonehead is why cazna still wasn't happy enough with the results he was getting till he stepped up to a 4" Tapeworm? Wonder what he might have thought if he'd been using a 3 1/2" Columbia.


cazna,

If you don't already know, do you think you could measure your 4" Tapeworm size, from the tip to the outside of the side blades where the blades intersect, and see what you get?


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## cazna

JustMe said:


> cazna,
> 
> If you don't already know, do you think you could measure your 4" Tapeworm size, from the tip to the outside of the side blades where the blades intersect, and see what you get?


Well Justme, Justforyou I had a measure up and i should thank you as its raised a few questions, Firstly, How is an angle head measured??

I forgot where you asked me to measure from and in the pic below, all the measurements and done with the tape touching the inside of the skid to the point of the head, After all, This is the width of the mud that will be left of the wall.

And see the bigger DM head, Well i ordered a 3.5 bonehead from All Wall last year and thats what i thought i got..........But did I get a 3.5?? I thought I did but i have never measured them like this before and as you can see much to my dissapointment  it measures to 3.1....so do i have a 3 or 3.5, Hopefully i will get an answer for that????? And im silly for not spotting that one before, Thank you for pointing that out and i would say for sure thats why i like the tapeworm, It has a lot more cover then the 3 DM, If i knew that about the DM then i would not have got it , It was a fair price back then for something its not???

See the Tapeworm head, on the right, DM in the middle, and Goldblatt on the left in the second pic, Much thicker and bigger than the rest isnt it and it gives great results. Big blades arnt they, I have never had a close look at columbias so i do not know what they are like, Im not talking down the DMs or the goldblatts, They go ok for what they are but for me and how i like the corners the tapeworms the king of this line up, maybe the COL 3.5 will be a match for it??? I dont know, The smallest amount wider seems to make quite a difference, Columbia said theres is a 3.6, But where are they measured from???

I was going to get the 4 goldblatt from all wall but found a store in NZ that has tapeworm and an ok price. The only complaint i would have with the tapeworm is the wings gap is a little wide so if the muds to thin it can leak but thats actually a good gauge for mud thickness, To thin it leaks, Just right and it barely leaks, To thick and its to slow.

I have been using the 3.5 goldblatt first then the 4 tapeworm to finish which is a little slow running the bigger head but im going to try 4 tapeworm first then the 3 on the next job to see if it speeds up the last coat, Whenever i get a chance, so maybe the DM 3 will be nice for that?? Its all small jobs at the moment, New houses have slowed up here.


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## JustMe

cazna said:


> Well Justme, Justforyou I had a measure up and i should thank you as its raised a few questions, Firstly, How is an angle head measured??


From what I'm seeing when it comes to at least DM, they have their own way. Even the Full length of one side doesn't measure 3.5" in length (3.425", or 3 7/16", including blade tip). So how they came up with calling it a 3.5", .......
Maybe if they're reading here - or maybe a distributor of their tools - could answer that one.



cazna said:


> I forgot where you asked me to measure from and in the pic below, all the measurements and done with the tape touching the inside of the skid to the point of the head, After all, This is the width of the mud that will be left of the wall.


I measured to the Outside of the skid. I figured that because the skids ride a bit higher than the blades, a little mud could get underneath them. 



cazna said:


> And see the bigger DM head, Well i ordered a 3.5 bonehead from All Wall last year and thats what i thought i got..........But did I get a 3.5?? I thought I did but i have never measured them like this before and as you can see much to my dissapointment  it measures to 3.1....so do i have a 3 or 3.5, Hopefully i will get an answer for that?????


My Bonehead is stamped 3.5 but measures 3.1 as well, when I measure it as you did. I 2nd your disappointment.



cazna said:


> It has a lot more cover then the 3 DM, If i knew that about the DM then i would not have got it , It was a fair price back then for something its not???


Neither would I have bought it. For one thing, seems too close in size to my 3" Columbia.



cazna said:


> Columbia said theres is a 3.6, But where are they measured from???


Maybe Aaron would answer that.



cazna said:


> I have been using the 3.5 goldblatt first then the 4 tapeworm to finish which is a little slow running the bigger head but im going to try 4 tapeworm first then the 3 on the next job to see if it speeds up the last coat, Whenever i get a chance, so maybe the DM 3 will be nice for that?? Its all small jobs at the moment, New houses have slowed up here.


I haven't run my 3.5" (3.1") Bonehead yet. I did give it to a taper who brought his Apla Cannon, that I ran the other day, to try it on. When he tried the Bonehead, he ran it for a couple angles and didn't like it. When I gave him my 3" Columbia, he liked it enough that he was talking about maybe getting one, as he's thinking about replacing, rather than fixing, his 3.5" Northstar head - which they say gives you 3.4" of working width. Whether that's to inside or outside of skid, I don't know. From the way they describe it, could that be the Whole blade length they're meaning? (need to understand what they mean by 'working face' in the following):

_The 3.5” angle head size is exclusive to NorthStar. The working face of the blade in contact with the wall is 3.40". Over a year of testing went into coming up with this size. A 3” angle head is too small to feather properly into the bevels of the board (especially deep bevels), resulting in thick edging. A full 3.5” angle head is too large and feathers past the bevel resulting in an uneven edge. The NorthStar 3.5” size results in a perfectly blended and feathered corner._

I don't know how accurate is their reasoning. The website I got the quote from: http://www.northstartool.com/t_04.html


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

I was measuring the total distance of the blade to get 3.6", our distance to the edge skid blade is 3.4". The mud does feather out to the edge of the total blade in the end the skid blade it there to slow the mud down and allow it to feather out.


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## JustMe

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> I was measuring the total distance of the blade to get 3.6", our distance to the edge skid blade is 3.4". The mud does feather out to the edge of the total blade in the end the skid blade it there to slow the mud down and allow it to feather out.


So just to clarify, Aaron. That 3.4" is to the Outside of the skid blade edge?


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

JustMe said:


> So just to clarify, Aaron. That 3.4" is to the Outside of the skid blade edge?


Yes the outside of the Skid


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## cazna

Thanks again justme, So What did you think of the look of the tapeworm??

Columbia, Are you blades as beefy as that or are they standard slim blades??

The thicker blades on the tapeworm seem to smmooth off better and dont catch the trash or scratch as much.


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## ColumbiaTechSupport

cazna said:


> Thanks again justme, So What did you think of the look of the tapeworm??
> 
> Columbia, Are you blades as beefy as that or are they standard slim blades??
> 
> The thicker blades on the tapeworm seem to smmooth off better and dont catch the trash or scratch as much.


They are thicker than the smaller blades. .075" vs .060"


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## cazna

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> They are thicker than the smaller blades. .075" vs .060"


Still not half as thick as Tapeworms?? I wonder why they made em so big, Stronger, longer life maybe??


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## JustMe

ColumbiaTechSupport said:


> I was measuring the total distance of the blade to get 3.6", our distance to the edge skid blade is 3.4". The mud does feather out to the edge of the total blade in the end the skid blade it there to slow the mud down and allow it to feather out.


So if it feathers the Total blade length (is that's what Northstar might mean by their term 'working face of the blade'?), for my angle heads I get blade lengths right around:

2 1/2" Columbia - 2.75" (2 3/4")

3" Columbia - 3.18" (3 3/16")

3.5" DM - 3.375" (3 3/8")

If my math is right enough, somewhere around a .43" (7/16") difference between my 2 1/2 and 3", and a .185" (3/16") difference between my 3" and 3 1/2".

There's extra slotting length still available where the blades go in each angle head. I wonder what might happen if one was to get blades that extended the full length? Not much? Or might it feather things out a little better?



cazna said:


> Still not half as thick as Tapeworms?? I wonder why they made em so big, Stronger, longer life maybe??


Those blades are over .15" wide? Wow.


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## smisner50s

JustMe said:


> So if it feathers the Total blade length (is that's what Northstar might mean by their term 'working face of the blade'?), for my angle heads I get blade lengths right around:
> 
> 2 1/2" Columbia - 2.75" (2 3/4")
> 
> 3" Columbia - 3.18" (3 3/16")
> 
> 3.5" DM - 3.375" (3 3/8")
> 
> If my math is right enough, somewhere around a .43" (7/16") difference between my 2 1/2 and 3", and a .185" (3/16") difference between my 3" and 3 1/2".
> 
> There's extra slotting length still available where the blades go in each angle head. I wonder what might happen if one was to get blades that extended the full length? Not much? Or might it feather things out a little better?
> 
> 
> 
> Those blades are over .15" wide? Wow.


I got a dwm3.5with wheels I measured a dry mud pass on the wall ..and they all measured 3.1/4


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> I got a dwm3.5with wheels I measured a dry mud pass on the wall ..and they all measured 3.1/4


I think were on to these drywall tool manufacturers.:yes:

I'm going to measure my ten and twelve inch boxes, see how wide they are:blink::whistling2:


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## E.K Taper

Yes I bought a 48" handle but I swear its only 4ft


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## JustMe

smisner50s said:


> I got a dwm3.5with wheels I measured a dry mud pass on the wall ..and they all measured 3.1/4


So where did the other 1/4 go? Shrinkage? 

Thanks for that. I'm going to be doing a bunch of hanging ceiling forms next week, so don't know when I'll get a chance to use my heads. But I'll post what I get with them when I do use them, including my own 3.5 DM one.

I wonder what cazna is getting with his 4" Tapeworm. As he said, even a small width difference seems to make quite a difference, and his 3.5 DM wasn't doing it for him well enough. For myself, my flushers get a Lot more use in my commercial work than my angle heads do, so I'm not as familiar with just how much different a little width difference can be when it comes to angle heads.

Wonder what other popular brands like TT's larger heads give?

Maybe Columbia/Aaron could post what their 3 1/2" actually gives for width, in case it might be a width size someone would like to try.



2buckcanuck said:


> I think were on to these drywall tool manufacturers.:yes:
> 
> I'm going to measure my ten and twelve inch boxes, see how wide they are:blink::whistling2:


Smart *ss. Make sure you read the right side of the tape. 

New? word for you I came across tonight (in movie Black Sheep), complete with definition - ovinophobia:

_"It's the completely unfounded and irrational fear that one day this was going to happen," according to Henry, the lead character in the New Zealand horror film "Black Sheep".

By "this" he means some of New Zealand's millions of sheep becoming psychotic and turning on farmers._


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## cazna

It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned that black sheep movie, Its not exactly NZs best, Hardly Lord of the Rings, If you want some real Quaility NZ Film making then get this one, Meet the feebles, Thats like the muppets turned bad. Well actually thats quite crap as well but if you want to watch something OMG and  and WTF then get some beers into you and be prepared for a laugh.

So if the DM 3.5 is more a 3 then what size is there 3 then??

There is a huge difference with the tapeworm justme, Wider, Better tape cover, No edge ridges, The thick blades seem to catch less trash and scratch less, Covers high shoulders better, The Tapeworm top blades have a really well set up arc which leaves nice mud that covers the tape well so it can be sanded with less tapeblowing, You can barely feel the edges with your fingers, the edges become almost just a plaster stain, It takes F all sanding, I just pass the pc once on slow speed then just detail check the corners. It glides over bad board and unsquare corners with no fuss, you can double run the tapeworm like 2buck does with his boxes and they really come up well, machine corners as good as doing one side at a time by had, It makes a less steep corner so the paint rollers edge less, The DM just didnt do all that, The DMs are still are nice head and will make a corner it just depends on how you want to do things and what board conditions you have, Its hardly first class here in NZ so i have a lot of crap to deal with, The mudrunner makes the big tapeworm possable, An anglebox would be a struggle, Aplatechs CF might like the tapeworm head.

As I said, Im going to try the 4 tapeworm with the runner on the tape coat then the DM for finish coat next, It might be the ducks nuts :thumbsup:


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## gazman

Just measured my 3.5 northstar. It 3.2 to the outside of the skids & 3.4 total blade length.


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## JustMe

cazna said:


> It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned that black sheep movie, Its not exactly NZs best, Hardly Lord of the Rings


 It's not the kind of show I usually watch, but I caught a little of it.



cazna said:


> As I said, Im going to try the 4 tapeworm with the runner on the tape coat then the DM for finish coat next, It might be the ducks nuts :thumbsup:


 Let us know how you make out. Btw: smisner had a good idea in measuring what actually ends up on the wall. If you get a chance, could you post the width your Tapeworm gives you. I'm wondering if it might be about what (I believe) he seemed to find - about .06" (1/16") past the outer edge of the skid.

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gazman said:


> Just measured my 3.5 northstar. It 3.2 to the outside of the skids & 3.4 total blade length.


The 3.4 total blade length seems to answer the question I had of what they might have meant in the Northstar quote I posted previously - about what were they meaning by 'working face':



JustMe said:


> _The 3.5” angle head size is exclusive to NorthStar. The *working face of the blade in contact with the wall is 3.40"*. Over a year of testing went into coming up with this size. A 3” angle head is too small to feather properly into the bevels of the board (especially deep bevels), resulting in thick edging. A full 3.5” angle head is too large and feathers past the bevel resulting in an uneven edge. The NorthStar 3.5” size results in a perfectly blended and feathered corner._


Could you post the actual width you get with it, so one can determine a little better what width it was that Northstar had thought was 'the optimal width'.

------

I wonder what Can-Am and BTE flushers - maybe the most popular flusher brands, I'm thinking - might actually give for width, and if their claimed sizes actually differ in width between them. Both 2buck and I finish with 3 1/2" flushers - I use it when I'm not using a 3" flusher for finishing. My 3 and 3 1/2" are Can-Ams. I'll try to remember to measure mine when I next use them.


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## gazman

Could you post the actual width you get with it, so one can determine a little better what width it was that Northstar had thought was 'the optimal width'.

------

Well I have measured the finnished width of my northstar. And the answer is ------ wait for it----- wait for it ---Just a poofteenth over 3.2
So then acording to northstar that must be the optimal width. I dont know how there can be an optimal width when the width of the recess varies so much.


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## VANMAN

cazna said:


> Well Justme, Justforyou I had a measure up and i should thank you as its raised a few questions, Firstly, How is an angle head measured??
> 
> I forgot where you asked me to measure from and in the pic below, all the measurements and done with the tape touching the inside of the skid to the point of the head, After all, This is the width of the mud that will be left of the wall.
> 
> And see the bigger DM head, Well i ordered a 3.5 bonehead from All Wall last year and thats what i thought i got..........But did I get a 3.5?? I thought I did but i have never measured them like this before and as you can see much to my dissapointment  it measures to 3.1....so do i have a 3 or 3.5, Hopefully i will get an answer for that????? And im silly for not spotting that one before, Thank you for pointing that out and i would say for sure thats why i like the tapeworm, It has a lot more cover then the 3 DM, If i knew that about the DM then i would not have got it , It was a fair price back then for something its not???
> 
> See the Tapeworm head, on the right, DM in the middle, and Goldblatt on the left in the second pic, Much thicker and bigger than the rest isnt it and it gives great results. Big blades arnt they, I have never had a close look at columbias so i do not know what they are like, Im not talking down the DMs or the goldblatts, They go ok for what they are but for me and how i like the corners the tapeworms the king of this line up, maybe the COL 3.5 will be a match for it??? I dont know, The smallest amount wider seems to make quite a difference, Columbia said theres is a 3.6, But where are they measured from???
> 
> I was going to get the 4 goldblatt from all wall but found a store in NZ that has tapeworm and an ok price. The only complaint i would have with the tapeworm is the wings gap is a little wide so if the muds to thin it can leak but thats actually a good gauge for mud thickness, To thin it leaks, Just right and it barely leaks, To thick and its to slow.
> 
> I have been using the 3.5 goldblatt first then the 4 tapeworm to finish which is a little slow running the bigger head but im going to try 4 tapeworm first then the 3 on the next job to see if it speeds up the last coat, Whenever i get a chance, so maybe the DM 3 will be nice for that?? Its all small jobs at the moment, New houses have slowed up here.


 Who cleaned them? The wife i think:thumbsup:
Not the apprentice thats for sure!!!


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## TapeTech

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I have TT, tapeworm,premire,columbia heads.
> 
> TT won't talk to ANYONE, your on your own,
> 
> Tapeworm is okay, premire is like outa bussiness,,,
> 
> Columbia, will talk to you, help you fix the problem, send you a vidieo on how to fix it, and even send you a part for free every once in awhile.:thumbsup:


TapeTech is 100% committed to customer satisfaction and service. Try us and see for yourself. I just had a great conversation with Capt Sheetrock the other day.....


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## JustMe

gazman said:


> Well I have measured the finnished width of my northstar. And the answer is ------ wait for it----- wait for it ---Just a poofteenth over 3.2


So Northstar's 3.5 seems to be more of a 3" Widetrack - the Can-Am flushers I also use list a 3" and 3" Widetrack, along with their 3.5" and 4". Don't know how wide their Widetrack really is supposed to be - they don't say on their website.



gazman said:


> So then acording to northstar that must be the optimal width. I dont know how there can be an optimal width when the width of the recess varies so much.


Was kind of wondering a bit about that, too. Maybe a marketing claim?
I've never gotten into closely measuring the bevel widths of the board we get, to see what difference there might be.

My mostly all commercial work usually isn't as dependent on quality corner application as it seems to be for most of you others, but I'd like to see how well cazna's 4" Tapeworm does do corners. I couldn't find a video or pics on it on the net.
Keeping in mind that cazna is also using a Mudrunner, maybe could post a pic or 2 of corners done with and without the Mudrunner? Could that be a possible to do, cazna?


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## JustMe

TapeTech said:


> TapeTech is 100% committed to customer satisfaction and service. Try us and see for yourself. I just had a great conversation with Capt Sheetrock the other day.....


Mike,

Would you happen to know how wide the mud actually is that your 3 and 3 1/2" angle heads lay down.


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## TapeTech

Not off the top of my head (on a Saturday! ) but I will find out on Monday and post.


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## JustMe

TapeTech said:


> (on a Saturday! )


I was going to say What do you mean "on a Saturday!"?  What happened already to *100% committed to customer satisfaction and service*? Tapers need 24/7 support!

But I won't.



Just kidding (although some do seem to really need ongoing help - which they won't listen to. And they seem to find their way regularly to job sites where I'm supposed to take care of the finishing. But bless them and their dysfunctional, able to find a half dozen things or more to do wrong everyday, ways).


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## Tim0282

TapeTech said:


> Not off the top of my head (on a Saturday! ) but I will find out on Monday and post.


What?? You don't carry a full set in your pocket all weekend?


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## TapeTech

JustMe said:


> I was going to say What do you mean "on a Saturday!"?  What happened already to *100% committed to customer satisfaction and service*? Tapers need 24/7 support!
> 
> But I won't.
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding (although some do seem to really need ongoing help - which they won't listen to. And they seem to find their way regularly to job sites where I'm supposed to take care of the finishing. But bless them and their dysfunctional, able to find a half dozen things or more to do wrong everyday, ways).


Thanks for not saying that!

As I said in an early post, I am somewhat new to TapeTech and drywall but an old timer for construction and tools. I am a stickler about providing accurate information and since I don't keep a set of tools at home (I know, shame on me), I didn't want to answer until Monday. But at least I am monitoring the board on the weekend to make sure all the members can post questions and expect an answer as soon as possible!

Thanks and have a great rest of the weekend.

Good Finishing!


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## sdrdrywall

I run the 4 inch tapeworm head but use a corner box with it its all cazna says corners come out perfect just moves a hair slower .


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## Bazooka-Joe

Bill from Indy said:


> ive had ames/tapetech/concorde/columbia and now northstar..the northstar and the best of the bunch in my opinion....and they do run true out of the box..I have a columbia too that has the unbreakable blades and I would have felt better giving the money to a stripper..worthless, again, in my opinion


so that's why Drywallers % Tapers frequent the Stripper Bar


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