# Level Five Finish By Knife



## Johnny Drywall (Nov 24, 2009)

I am just looking for a little knowledge from someone that knows what they are talking about. I own a drywall business and we have applied level five finish using a spray application made by Magnum. It is a joint compound/primer mixture which if applied correctly works well. However, we have a VERY picky builder from the old school days. He has decided he wants us to now apply a level five finish by knife using lightweight joint compound. My problem is I am not sure what kind of coverage I will get out of a 3.5 box. Does anyone know how many square feet a 3.5 box will cover on a level five by knife?
Thanks in advance!!!


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Johnny Drywall said:


> I am just looking for a little knowledge from someone that knows what they are talking about. I own a drywall business and we have applied level five finish using a spray application made by Magnum. It is a joint compound/primer mixture which if applied correctly works well. However, we have a VERY picky builder from the old school days. He has decided he wants us to now apply a level five finish by knife using lightweight joint compound. My problem is I am not sure what kind of coverage I will get out of a 3.5 box. Does anyone know how many square feet a 3.5 box will cover on a level five by knife?
> Thanks in advance!!!


 Level 5 is a level 5 no matter how it is applied , it should not matter what the builder wants does he also want to pay for all the extra labor involved , if he is so picky tell him to come after you are all finished and see if he knows the difference , nothing worse than having someone dictate how to do your job as long as it comes out fine ... but if you must know i would think a level 5 by hand a box of mud goes a long way ...


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Its impossible to come up with an exact figure, mud gets hard after skimmimg with it a couple of times, and some finishers toss it out, otheres add more water to it and continue skimming. You can say 10 boards to box to be safe. 

Why don't you tell the builder you are the drywall professional and that is how its done?

Also, spray it with the magnum, then whip it with a 10 or 12. Make sure your knifes don't leave lines.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

BTW - In my experience, doing level 5 by hand doesn't always work with 1 coat, you can still see flashing.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Work from the bucket, green top. Just add water and paddle it until you don't see air bubbles. Light sanding when done should give you a good finish. It will never be super perfect unless you do multiple skim coats/sandings or for Super Perfect go with a plaster veneer. Maybe lime and gauge. But you need to charge extra for that.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

why would you use green mud for that?
green (all-purpose) is primarily made to apply tape/paper bead. If you fill with it at all, it cracks like a 80 year old's forehead


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

Whitey97 said:


> why would you use green mud for that?
> green (all-purpose) is primarily made to apply tape/paper bead. If you fill with it at all, it cracks like a 80 year old's forehead



****** ....you have no idea how I agree with you here. But the "Old School" boys think Green Lid is good to use from start to finish. It is like your a pussy if you ask for light weight to use.

WTF do they make it for !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Whitey97 said:


> why would you use green mud for that?
> green (all-purpose) is primarily made to apply tape/paper bead. If you fill with it at all, it cracks like a 80 year old's forehead


 I understand why you would say that , however, in my opinion the veneer of blue is too soft for a strong finish. When doing level 5 on sheetrock, filling is not an issue. If filling is an issue, i'll usually go with a hot mix first. If its real bad (old plaster) i'll use structolite. We never use anything but green top or cover coat. Been using green top since i was a little kid. always worked for me.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

The problem with the blue lid or light weight is it gets too doughy too fast & drys out. The problem with the green is its heavy, but it does go on nice, and as far as shrinkage there should not be any worry because you are not applying it on thick it is a skim coat . It is a much more tougher finish . And if done right not much to buff off. On the other hand if you are finishing over any ridges it will not feather out very well ... Mix 50/50 or even a little green with the blue it will aid in the drying out as you are working with it and still give it some added strength to the finish and will go on smoother ... Ever mix a little green in with the blue before you box you would be surprised by how smooth it goes on. 0 pockmarks.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> The problem with the blue lid or light weight is it gets too doughy too fast & drys out. The problem with the green is its heavy, but it does go on nice, and as far as shrinkage there should not be any worry because you are not applying it on thick it is a skim coat . It is a much more tougher finish . And if done right not much to buff off. On the other hand if you are finishing over any ridges it will not feather out very well ... Mix 50/50 or even a little green with the blue it will aid in the drying out as you are working with it and still give it some added strength to the finish and will go on smoother ... Ever mix a little green in with the blue before you box you would be surprised by how smooth it goes on. 0 pockmarks.



Sheetrock makes it already premixed like that ..... It comes in a Light Brown Lid VLS (Very Low shrinkage) ... Stuff is great, just very hard to find.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

d-rock said:


> I understand why you would say that , however, in my opinion the veneer of blue is too soft for a strong finish. When doing level 5 on sheetrock, filling is not an issue. If filling is an issue, i'll usually go with a hot mix first. If its real bad (old plaster) i'll use structolite. We never use anything but green top or cover coat. Been using green top since i was a little kid. always worked for me.


No Offense D-Rock ..... But if that was the case why would Sheetrock make it. I have called there spec department .... Green lid to tape .. Blue lid to cover. Just because you have only used Green lid since you were a little kid .... Doesn't mean it's right. That kind of logic kills me.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Stormy_Ny said:


> No Offense D-Rock ..... But if that was the case why would Sheetrock make it. I have called there spec department .... Green lid to tape .. Blue lid to cover. Just because you have only used Green lid since you were a little kid .... Doesn't mean it's right. That kind of logic kills me.


Never said it was 'right', as my post clearly stated it's just my opinion. you are free to disagree. It's worked for me, so if someone asks me, i will tell them it's worked for me. Also, I still think the veneer of blue does not feel solid. If i'm doing level 5, which is what this thread is about, I prefer to thin the mud and knife or trowel apply. But I'm certainly no mud Yoda. I'm certain alot of you guys are much more experienced than I am.:thumbsup:


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Isn't the green lid their "All Purpose" mud. Doesn't that indicate a mud that is good for all purposes?? That means they think its ok for each part of the process don't they? Just askin...


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> Isn't the green lid their "All Purpose" mud. Doesn't that indicate a mud that is good for all purposes?? That means they think its ok for each part of the process don't they? Just askin...


LMAO... good point. see, like i said, i'm no Yoda..


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

If you can find it where you live, lafarge products have been working really well for us, I had a rep who called me a few years back and I told him no thanks buuut he would'nt take no for an answer so I told him to drop it off on the job. We used it and were impressed it works very well. Even thier bag materials are good.


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## Johnny Drywall (Nov 24, 2009)

*Wow*

The only person that actually tried to reply to the question was JoePro.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Johnny Drywall said:


> The only person that actually tried to reply to the question was JoePro.


 
Johnny I pretty much answered it for everyone, what else can we say? That its impossible to figure out.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Johnny Drywall said:


> The only person that actually tried to reply to the question was JoePro.


LOL, I'm sorry could you repeat the question please.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Just so everyone is aware, we are all drywall guys here. Do you really expect us to stay on topic? blah


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Sheetrock makes it already premixed like that ..... It comes in a Light Brown Lid VLS (Very Low shrinkage) ... Stuff is great, just very hard to find.


Yesterday I asked our supplier if they can get this VLS stuff. No problem, we can get one bucket or a hundred. 

Might try it on our next project.


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

Vls is good but the lafarge shrinks less. imho


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Sheetrock makes it already premixed like that ..... It comes in a Light Brown Lid VLS (Very Low shrinkage) ... Stuff is great, just very hard to find.


We are in the middle of a small job using the VLS for the first time. Weird stuff compared to green top, just goes on funny. Is it normal to have a lot of crusty stuff around the top of the mud when opening a new bucket? Or is it just that the supplier has had it forever?


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> We are in the middle of a small job using the VLS for the first time. Weird stuff compared to green top, just goes on funny. Is it normal to have a lot of crusty stuff around the top of the mud when opening a new bucket? Or is it just that the supplier has had it forever?


Around the rim of the bucket or on the mud itself ? .... No plastic wrapper on top to keep it moist ? 

Stuff is smoooooooth huh?


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Stormy_Ny said:


> Around the rim of the bucket or on the mud itself ? .... No plastic wrapper on top to keep it moist ?
> 
> Stuff is smoooooooth huh?


Had plastic, but a little dry around the rim still. Have to spend a minute and scrape out the hard stuff before mixing.

I think the green top is smoother though. I found it a little more difficult to remove pock pits with the VLS (hand finishing) and it seemed to take an extra swipe or two to do so. It also dries with a rougher orange peel surface. 

Sands extremely easy though. We have not sanded out he entire job yet, but what little we have done it appears to sand easy.


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## MIKE FROM NH (Dec 20, 2009)

When I skim I use a 1/2" nap paint roller to apply USG Blue. And add a little water in the begining, then again 1/2 through. It kinda drys out as you go along. The paint roller is less labor intensive a is a cheap delivery method.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Not sure about the VLS. Sanded easy and that was about it. Had trouble sanding the corners with the Porter Cable. I applied the compound as I would green top and apparently that is too thick with a non-shrinking compound. The PC made a slight ramp leading into the corner that was tough to sand out by hand, and keep flat. If I were sanding everything out by hand it would be the cats ass.

Bottom line is the PC still polished the compound. See other post.


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## detroittaper (Dec 26, 2008)

*Level 5 board*

Lafarge makes a Level 5 Drywall. If you have alot of area that calls for Level 5, I would highly recommend it. The board comes pre-sprayed with a thin amount of smooth drywall compound already on it. You then simply apply Lafarge's grey colored mud as you would normally finish a wall (which is the same mud that's sprayed on the board) over the joints (it's colored so you can see the seams/screws) and your done. Lightly sand the whole board and it's done. The board is a little more expensive than regular drywall but the money you save on labor makes it worthwhile. 

google it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

wnybassman said:


> Yesterday I asked our supplier if they can get this VLS stuff. No problem, we can get one bucket or a hundred.
> 
> Might try it on our next project.


 If you can recall..did it work well for you Bassman?


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## justadrywallguy (Sep 10, 2010)

Johnny Drywall said:


> I am just looking for a little knowledge from someone that knows what they are talking about. I own a drywall business and we have applied level five finish using a spray application made by Magnum. It is a joint compound/primer mixture which if applied correctly works well. However, we have a VERY picky builder from the old school days. He has decided he wants us to now apply a level five finish by knife using lightweight joint compound. My problem is I am not sure what kind of coverage I will get out of a 3.5 box. Does anyone know how many square feet a 3.5 box will cover on a level five by knife?
> Thanks in advance!!!


when we do level five, we hawk and trowel it in two coats. first one up and down then the second one from side to side. LIGHTLY sanding any lap marks out between coats then brushing of the dust. we use light mud (proform). last wall we did was 20x30 and a box each coat. comes out GREAT!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I actually do hand skimmming on most of my custom homes. I prefer to skim twice for optimal results. Also i use green lid as I think that it goes further then the lightweights or VLS. Also when rolling it on the skimming off with the Magic trowel it seams to leave less cheese where the roller starts or stops. To answer the original question its 4 pails for every 100 boards with green top. Lightweight and vinyl better add another pail


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## wallrocker (Mar 12, 2012)

Johnny Drywall said:


> I am just looking for a little knowledge from someone that knows what they are talking about. I own a drywall business and we have applied level five finish using a spray application made by Magnum. It is a joint compound/primer mixture which if applied correctly works well. However, we have a VERY picky builder from the old school days. He has decided he wants us to now apply a level five finish by knife using lightweight joint compound. My problem is I am not sure what kind of coverage I will get out of a 3.5 box. Does anyone know how many square feet a 3.5 box will cover on a level five by knife?
> Thanks in advance!!!


i use a 9in. roller have someone behind me wiping off with 10 in, knife works real well


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