# Help with spraying.



## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm work on a 150 bed hotel in Legoland. The painters were meant to be doing the sealer, but they let the main contractor down so it's down to us to do.
Never sprayed anything before. Borrowed a decent sprayer off a mate.
Just need a few tips, advice to get me started.
106m2 a room. 25p a m2, labour only. I've got almost 100 rooms to go at. How many should I be doing a day?once I get the hang of it. What's the learning curve like?
Any input would be greatly received.


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

Goodmanatee said:


> I'm work on a 150 bed hotel in Legoland. The painters were meant to be doing the sealer, but they let the main contractor down so it's down to us to do.
> Never sprayed anything before. Borrowed a decent sprayer off a mate.
> Just need a few tips, advice to get me started.
> 106m2 a room. 25p a m2, labour only. I've got almost 100 rooms to go at. How many should I be doing a day?once I get the hang of it. What's the learning curve like?
> Any input would be greatly received.


 if your spraying a surficer primer dont back roll it ..its made to flow out ..if backrolled it will get to much texture to it ...reguilar primer dont backroll it ..wait till you spray the finish pant than back roll that..if all your doing is spraying 150 200 gallons is a good pace


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Only doing the sealer, no paint. Painters still coming to paint. Mix up with the packages offered by contractors.
Ceilings first? Do stand I one place, do what I can reach or walk spraying the whole ceiling?
Walls? Up and down or side to side?
I'm little scared of over spray. Any tips on that?


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

Goodmanatee said:


> Only doing the sealer, no paint. Painters still coming to paint. Mix up with the packages offered by contractors.
> Ceilings first? Do stand I one place, do what I can reach or walk spraying the whole ceiling?
> Walls? Up and down or side to side?
> I'm little scared of over spray. Any tips on that?


Keep moving on the lid..get your arm moving before you pull trigger. Up and down works pretty well ...direction is up to the sprayer ..


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Set airless at around 1800psi, Play with it, Say 1700ish or 1900ish, Thin the sealer, About 1.5litres per 10litre bucket. Use a 515 spray tip, Once you get the feel of it maybe go a 519, The first number on a spray tip is the fan width, Then double it, So a 5 is a 10inch fan, A 4 is 8 inch fan etc the last 2 numbers are size of spray hole so 15, bigger is 19, etc.
Start anywhere you want but i go ceilings then walls, Yes walk and move a lot when spraying, dont stand in one spot, Use a 10inch extension wand on your gun, If you have no wand it will be a nightmere, to long and it will get messy, Use a clean shot value to help with gun spitting, If it still spits put an ez packing seal in the gun. Cross hatch spray everything, IE spray up and down, dont worry if it looks a bit patchy, then spray accross ways getting it better this time. Confused are we :blink:

If i had someone on the hose moving it about with me which make life much easier maybe i would do 30 rooms or so with a clean run and windows masked up, Hard to judge, You will only prob do a few first day, more the second and so on.

Thats all how i do it anyway with what i have, Ands heres the best part, You can turn it into level 5 with sealer if you think about it and are not a tight wad with the pant :yes: No need to back roll, Cross hatch spray and sand the walls later, Comes up fantastic


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Cheers lads, great info.

Thanks canza took that in, and not confussed.
Don't think I will have to sand it. Because it's a themed hotel the Walls are getting covered custom printed graphics (posh wallpaper).


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Goodmanatee said:


> Cheers lads, great info.
> 
> Thanks canza took that in, and not confussed.
> Don't think I will have to sand it. Because it's a themed hotel the Walls are getting covered custom printed graphics (posh wallpaper).


 
Oh Ok, You might not have to cross hatch the walls then, Just the ceilings.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

When your saying sealer, your talking white primer,,,,,, right ??? or that clear junk:blink:

I see most painters back rolling where we are, their just treating the spray machine as a means to get the paint on. They spray out the ceilings, do that cross hatch thing, then back roll out the walls. They don't mask or paper anything off, they keep back from doors and windows etc,,, and let the man on the roller cut up to them. From what I gather talking to most painters is,, the paint sprayer uses too much material, and masking things off is too time consuming. so, as I said, their using the sprayer as a means to get the paint on faster, the man on the roller should be your best painter.

Also, if it's your own tape work (or t&j, what ever you guys call it) , back rolling can protect your own arse if you know what I mean. No flashing, hides more etc..... might be something to think about, since your not doing the final painting or wall paper etc....

My 2bucks worth:whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Thats interesting, So why not just use a power roller then, Thats a roller on an airless, Squeeze the trigger and you have paint, Thats one man doing the job of two, One spraying and one back rolling or one just rolling?? Takes me about one easy day to mask up, One big day to spray for two of us, Then its onto the doors/frames with the HVLP sprayer. on a 250 sm floor area house.

So why are you even going to seal/prime the walls with paint if they are to be papered, We just use "size" The clear stuff 2buck could be talking about before the paper, This seals the wall so they dont steal the paste off the paper and it falls off, And the size gives the paper some slip to work with, And anti mould, And makes the paper easier to strip off.

The correct so called way is to use pigmented sealer first, Thats stinky oil base paint, But thats old school and has its issues.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Thats interesting, So why not just use a power roller then, Thats a roller on an airless, Squeeze the trigger and you have paint, Thats one man doing the job of two, One spraying and one back rolling or one just rolling?? Takes me about one easy day to mask up, One big day to spray for two of us, Then its onto the doors/frames with the HVLP sprayer. on a 250 sm floor area house.
> 
> So why are you even going to seal/prime the walls with paint if they are to be papered, We just use "size" The clear stuff 2buck could be talking about before the paper, This seals the wall so they dont steal the paste off the paper and it falls off, And the size gives the paper some slip to work with, And anti mould, And makes the paper easier to strip off.
> 
> The correct so called way is to use pigmented sealer first, Thats stinky oil base paint, But thats old school and has its issues.


Power roller because real painter fear new toys, that might make their job too easy:whistling2:

You and smis are wearing all the hats when you do your jobs, meaning your in control of the final product. GMT is still going to half to deal with real painters down the road. That's why I think he should back roll, he's a taper 1st, that's why I suggest the back rolling, since it hides things, eliminates flashing, just over all, it will make his taping job pass better.

Goodmanatee is just subbing the prime aspect of the job, that's it, so if I were him:whistling2:..........

I want bang for the buck, so in and out, just purchase a okay primer, not too good, not too bad. Then try the method I'm talking of. I have not done it myself, but from my days of doing nursing homes and high rise condos. We could have 20,000 to 30,000 sq ft all taped out (from multiple taping crews) and usually a three man painting crew would come in and blast that out in one day, what we took weeks to do. One guy sprayed, one rolled and the other was the floater/runner.

You did give a good post to GMT cazna, but I can't tell you what size machine they had or spray tip etc.... all I can tell you is what I saw, and they were damn fast, no masking or hanging of paper, just the G.C. cleaning the floors before them.

All I know, is when they were done, us tapers got a lot of new 5 gallon buckets, which is all painters are good for:whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Good comments 2buck, always good to hear how others are doing it.

Heres a power roller, I just got one, Havent tryed it yet though.

We have surebond wallpaper size here, Its thicker and muddy in colour and see through, Thats great stuff, Much better than the standard clear size, I would just power roll the ceilings, Paint the trim, Surebond size the walls then hang the paper on GMTs job.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Good comments 2buck, always good to hear how others are doing it.
> 
> Heres a power roller, I just got one, Havent tryed it yet though.
> 
> We have surebond wallpaper size here, Its thicker and muddy in colour and see through, Thats great stuff, Much better than the standard clear size, I would just power roll the ceilings, Paint the trim, Surebond size the walls then hang the paper on GMTs job.


I think we half to send kiwiman to your house to take a picture of all your tools, just how many do you own

Then throw in camping stoves, does your wife get to own anything ??????

Better not let her read this post:whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I think we half to send kiwiman to your house to take a picture of all your tools, just how many do you own
> 
> Then throw in camping stoves, does your wife get to own anything ??????
> 
> Better not let her read this post:whistling2:


Haha :thumbup: She did just read it and said " Yeah thated be right, All i own is a daughter" ??? Awww, Now come on dear, you have heaps of stuff.

Better not show a pic of my wallpaper machine then :whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Haha :thumbup: She did just read it and said " Yeah thated be right, All i own is a daughter" ??? Awww, Now come on dear, you have heaps of stuff.
> 
> Better not show a pic of my wallpaper machine then :whistling2:


Ask her if she wants another daughter or son then:whistling2:

11:50 am where you are, a nice lunch or picnic could be in store for you today:jester:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

cazna said:


> Good comments 2buck, always good to hear how others are doing it.
> 
> Heres a power roller, I just got one, Havent tryed it yet though.
> 
> .


I bought my wife a power roller almost just like that. :whistling2:

Around here most guys back roll their spray with an 18'' roller. I hardly ever see many production guys using a 12'' roller 18'' roller is so much more productive.:sweatdrop:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

If your back-rolling a job BEFORE the trim and elec devices are installed,,, yes, an 18 is best. If the trim is on and the plugs are in,,, then a 9" is better.

As 2buck said,,, you don't need to get close to the windows and doors(like spending a day to tape em all off), just apply the paint close to em and let the back-rolling dude work it over close to em.

If your NOT gonna back-roll the ceiling,,, then by all means, cross-hatch it. If your gonna back-roll the walls,,, it don't matter what tip, how close you are,, or any of that stuff,,, your just GETTING IT ON THE WALL for the back-roller.(hint,,, the bigger the tip, the more paint).

PS:
I didn't understand 1/2 the words you guys used,,, so I figure your scratching your heads bout now.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Heres a power roller, I just got one, Havent tryed it yet though.
> 
> .


 
Who makes that roller?????


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

would be a little worried not masking windows/doors or anything for that matter when spraying. Peace of mind I guess,besides that cutting in can be time consuming/not as efficient unless you have a few guys to do it. Masking doesnt take that long. I will be painting a remodel for wifes aunt sometime later this week,total reno,have tok out all doors windows trim base,crown,carpet,wallpaper,baseboard heaters,etc.etc. Put in all new trim,base,doors windows.Will be skimming out a nasty stomp on all lids and doing a smoother tex then repainting everything. Was going to spray all trim,base,closets,crown and doors and rolln all walls and ceilings. Just wondering if the pro painters think that is right approach. I want it to look as near perfect as possible. Will the gloss overspray on wall have differnt sheen than in field f I use a good primer on walls?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Who makes that roller?????


Wagner Capt, Thats a TR10 model, Extendable, I think they have a new one out now but not in NZ, Mine was a great deal, All my tools have been great deals, Keep your eyes open and its surprising what shows up.

I have heard the roller sleeves last a long time, The core has holes in it so you just screw it your airless hose, Squeeze the trigger and it feeds paint through the sleeve, They only need about 900-1000psi i think.
When cleaning your feeding water through the core of the sleeve so they clean right out, So i have heard, Havent tryed it yet though but cant forsee any hassels, Its just a roller that wont need tray dipped.

There was a couple of big fuel tanks here a few years back, They had a power roller on a long extension pole and did them from the ground, No over spray etc, worked great.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

chris said:


> would be a little worried not masking windows/doors or anything for that matter when spraying. Peace of mind I guess,besides that cutting in can be time consuming/not as efficient unless you have a few guys to do it. Masking doesnt take that long. I will be painting a remodel for wifes aunt sometime later this week,total reno,have tok out all doors windows trim base,crown,carpet,wallpaper,baseboard heaters,etc.etc. Put in all new trim,base,doors windows.Will be skimming out a nasty stomp on all lids and doing a smoother tex then repainting everything. Was going to spray all trim,base,closets,crown and doors and rolln all walls and ceilings. Just wondering if the pro painters think that is right approach. I want it to look as near perfect as possible. Will the gloss overspray on wall have differnt sheen than in field f I use a good primer on walls?


 
Shouldnt make much difference, I would get the walls primed, Then do the trim, Then check the walls with lights, then sand with pole or pc and sand up the overspray on the walls from the trim so the 2 top coats get a good key on it.


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

chris said:


> Was going to spray all trim,base,closets,crown and doors and rolln all walls and ceilings. Just wondering if the pro painters think that is right approach. I want it to look as near perfect as possible. Will the gloss overspray on wall have differnt sheen than in field f I use a good primer on walls?


Sounds like a fine approach to me. Only thing I would do different is spray the ceilings and brush the crown, unless the crown is multiple layered or ornate with blocking. . 

As far as flashing from the over spray on the wall you will be fine just sand it down before you apply primer.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Sounds like a fine approach to me. Only thing I would do different is spray the ceilings and brush the crown, unless the crown is multiple layered or ornate with blocking. .
> 
> As far as flashing from the over spray on the wall you will be fine just sand it down before you apply primer.


 
If i sanded the over spray on a wall that was not primed then it would ruin the drywall work, The sander will eat the softer drywall and leave behind the overspray paint causing an edge ridge that you can only get rid of by priming and then re plastering the patch up, Its gets messy, Prime first, let the over spray get on it, Then you can sand it cause the primer protects the drywall and will give you no bother, Tell me to shove up my arse worky, But its true :yes: Trust me.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

was thinking about spraying whole thing but all rooms arent cleared out enough. If I did decide to spray lids would masking off trim really well (including crown )work?Dont really want any brushlines if you know what I mean.


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

cazna said:


> If i sanded the over spray on a wall that was not primed then it would ruin the drywall work, The sander will eat the softer drywall and leave behind the overspray paint causing an edge ridge that you can only get rid of by priming and then re plastering the patch up, Its gets messy, Prime first, let the over spray get on it, Then you can sand it cause the primer protects the drywall and will give you no bother, Tell me to shove up my arse worky, But its true :yes: Trust me.


Never had a problem with it. I use 150 to 220 drywall screens when doing it.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

chris said:


> was thinking about spraying whole thing but all rooms arent cleared out enough. If I did decide to spray lids would masking off trim really well (including crown )work?Dont really want any brushlines if you know what I mean.


Whats the crown dude?? The coving, Ceiling/lid to wall trim?? Is that it??


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

chris said:


> was thinking about spraying whole thing but all rooms arent cleared out enough. If I did decide to spray lids would masking off trim really well (including crown )work?Dont really want any brushlines if you know what I mean.


Yeah you can mask the ceiling to spray the crown.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

cazna said:


> Whats the crown dude?? The coving, Ceiling/lid to wall trim?? Is that it??


You just answered my question I think, was wondering what cornice is. Crown is lid/wall trim at ceiling


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

cazna said:


> Whats the crown dude?? The coving, Ceiling/lid to wall trim?? Is that it??


Trim at the ceiling like this.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> Trim at the ceiling like this.


Yes:thumbsup: that is some sweet work...some of yours?First timer on trim work,will take some pics. I am hoping for a similar look:yes:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

chris said:


> Yes:thumbsup: that is some sweet work...some of yours?First timer on trim work,will take some pics. I am hoping for a similar look:yes:


Thanks. 
Yeah those are from jobs I painted a few years ago. I did not do the drywall on either job so don't blame me for those off center can lights.


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

I know it is off topic but here is a before and after of a job I did a few weeks ago.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Nice work worky, Looks great, Those dark to white edges take some skill, Love all the detail, We dont see anything like that here. I would like to do some but then again no one would want to spend the extra money for it, Thanks for the pics :thumbsup:


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

There is only one window and no doors or fittings yet. So masking will not be a problem.
Here is the sealer i'll be using http://www.british-gypsum.com/produ...gyproc_accessories/gyproc_drywall_sealer.aspx

Don't think i will back roll. Because the painters are not allowed to spray, they have to use a roller. site agents preference. The painters will still have to mist coat after i've sealed. So the painters will leave slight texture when they roll on the mist coat. Right?


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Goodmanatee said:


> There is only one window and no doors or fittings yet. So masking will not be a problem.
> Here is the sealer i'll be using http://www.british-gypsum.com/produ...gyproc_accessories/gyproc_drywall_sealer.aspx
> 
> Don't think i will back roll. Because the painters are not allowed to spray, they have to use a roller. site agents preference. The painters will still have to mist coat after i've sealed. So the painters will leave slight texture when they roll on the mist coat. Right?


Dude,Ive sprayed for 31 years and my suggestion to you is to mask the windows,have a helper with you to backroll . We typically can mask[2 of us] a 250 -300 sheet job in about 2 to 3 hours depending on # of windows,installed doors ,trim ,and any heating [hot water baseboard] installed.We all do things differently ,but remember,the primer-sealer coat is the base for a good quality paint job,as is a good finished drywall job,a base for primer and paint. Each process done correctly will effect the next /either negatively or positively. Our process of spraying and backrolling[with an 18"] gives a near perfect Level 5 because of the primer we use and backrolling. On the spraying tips--- you can typically spray about 1250 sqft of coverage from a 5 gallon [or no more than 22 sheets maybe 23] There is no need to spray ceilings then walls--it depends on the layout and how you work yourself out of an area/for instance a stairwell is treated different than a bedroom ,and a closet different than staging area.When backrolling you need to let the 1st 2 walls get sprayed before backrolling, both people should be in the same room working. On ceiling when you are about 1/3 sprayed the helper should start backrolling---NEVER immediately follow ,let the primer soak into the wall for a bit. Any other questions I.ll answer later---gotta go for now!!!! Time wise we spray an backroll a house[after masking] in about 3 1/2 hrs---My typical day for masking and spraying is 5-6 hrs.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Goodmanatee said:


> There is only one window and no doors or fittings yet. So masking will not be a problem.
> Here is the sealer i'll be using http://www.british-gypsum.com/produ...gyproc_accessories/gyproc_drywall_sealer.aspx
> 
> Don't think i will back roll. Because the painters are not allowed to spray, they have to use a roller. site agents preference. The painters will still have to mist coat after i've sealed. So the painters will leave slight texture when they roll on the mist coat. Right?


it's what spraying does

Where you coated with mud is nice and smooth, well the areas you didn't look rough, and sorta swell. So it draws attention to your work. Seen many arguments when they only spray. It makes it look like your joints are standing out/proud. Back rolling makes things one universal texture.

So spray some rooms one day,and back roll a few walls also, then shine a light down the 2 methods the next day. the sprayed walls you will do this


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

By not backrolling properly your work will be subpar--- stand back to the side when the person is backrolling and watch the effect it has!!!!!!! Cant be beat!!!!!! The difference between OOOOHHH and AAAAAHHHHHH.


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Guess I will have to experiment. It's all new to me.
Still don't think I will have to back roll the Walls the graphics going up, from what the agent has told me are pretty thick.
Thanks again for the info lads. Most informative.
I'll post some pics of the job.
I'm a lone taper so no one to help me.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Goodmanatee said:


> Guess I will have to experiment. It's all new to me.
> Still don't think I will have to back roll the Walls the graphics going up, from what the agent has told me are pretty thick.
> Thanks again for the info lads. Most informative.
> I'll post some pics of the job.
> I'm a lone taper so no one to help me.


Just one more point Goodmanatee

No one has said it on here yet, unless I miss read things but.......

If you only spray, you half to rough sand before you do the 2nd coat of paint. I don't see the painters willing to volunteer that service. Yes your suppose to rough sand after you back roll too,,,,, but,,,,,, I have learned not to trust painters. I can envision them saying they rough sand after the 2nd coat and so forth blah blah blah. Painters where I live are always after the back charge, their out to screw you in international language.

Just saying, as a taper, you got to protect yourself, so back rolling is like wearing a condom


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

From a painters stand point back rolling is a must. You are taking on a painters task and even if it is out of your realm you should try and deliver a professional product. Neither painting nor drywall is rocket science bot both have a learning curve. 

I did not contribute to the OP because I felt Canza gave enough info.


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Over here the sealer, primer coat. When needed is down to the taper not the painter.
I've done it pently of times before but just rolled it on. To be honest, I'm looking to make a quick buck, learn to spray, add a string to the bow and try and help out. There's pretty much a 150 rooms to go at. The mix up with the packages offered has put the job behind. Don't get me wrong, I do have pound signs my eyes. But also want to leave a good job.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

DSJOHN said:


> By not backrolling properly your work will be subpar--- stand back to the side when the person is backrolling and watch the effect it has!!!!!!! Cant be beat!!!!!! The difference between OOOOHHH and AAAAAHHHHHH.


 
Seems im the only one not backrolling, Becouse i cant, so i had to learn how not to, If im on my own then how can i spray and backroll, I guess i could but im not into doubling up and my helpers not so keen, So heres what i do, Spray up and down the wall, Kinda mist coat, Then spray accross the wall getting it looking better, then spray up and down again, This is the tricky part, I have sprayed a lot of roofs so im use to a spray gun, On the 3rd pass im getting it thicker, to the point of nearly running but i know its not, It will dry back, I prob use 30% more paint, So what, Its cheap, This gives me plenty of build up so it will cover the smooth mud, sanded spots and untouched wall board, Go back and light check, spray ceilings and trim, Then i can get out the PC and sand the walls, Becouse i have a thick coat of sealer it sands back like glass, No flashing etc, No bare spots, no roller marks, Nothing, Its a solid build up that covers everything, Level 5 with sealer, The 2nd coat sits on top and does not suck in like a thin sealer coat will do so the final coat has and exceptional surface to sit on and holds a wet edge very well, That wet edge is cruital to an even roller mark free top coat. And becouse the sealers not back rolled there is less roller marks, Im only putting two rolled coats on, not three, And if you thin correctly and use a good sleeve the roller texture is minimal, Enough but minimal, Now thats really OHHHHHH AHHHHHH :yes:

And there is a danger in backrolling, If its left to long after spraying and you roll it then it can spike up on you and look terrable.

I have not seen anyone else ever spray, or backroll, Its not common practice here, Its all 95% brush and roll so i guess im self taught and this is what i have come up with which seems completely different, But it works, All the ways you guys are saying seems to have cross overs and complactions and hiddin traps, I wish i could spend some time with some of you as im prob missing something but its working for me and as 2buck puts it, So.......


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I've seen your way happen here many times cazna, covertly. No one would dare admit to not back rolling. But the guys I have seen do it are pretty good at it so I could see how you would be able to do it too. But the extra paint could be an issue depending on price.


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

I dont backroll level 5 serficer ..its not ment to be period it is ment to flow out....i dont back roll primer the pollsanding will work better if the fuzzys and dust dont get rolled into the wall...i dont back roll first coat of finish..but i do backroll 2ed coat of finish...main reason for backrolling the wall needs texture so down the road when ever it gets touched up by someone the touch up will blend into a back rolled wall...will not blend in to a sprayed smooth wall ...backrolling has its place...for years i would spray and backroll by my self its alot of work though...


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

what nap you all using??:brows:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

In the early 2000's I did not backroll but since then have decided to backroll is better.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

smisner50s said:


> I dont backroll level 5 serficer ..its not ment to be period it is ment to flow out....i dont back roll primer the pollsanding will work better if the fuzzys and dust dont get rolled into the wall...i dont back roll first coat of finish..but i do backroll 2ed coat of finish...main reason for backrolling the wall needs texture so down the road when ever it gets touched up by someone the touch up will blend into a back rolled wall...will not blend in to a sprayed smooth wall ...backrolling has its place...for years i would spray and backroll by my self its alot of work though...


Yes I'm sure you and cazna do excellent work, but were not talking level 5 work, or the process that you guys do to achieve a good paint job. As I said before, you guys have control of the whole painting process, so ..........

If you taped a job, then someone asked you to prime it, as in goomanatee's case, would you back roll then. Remember, you have no idea what type of painter is coming in after you, for all you know, he may want to spray everything too, and never use a roller. You don't know their system. So the question is...... If your only to PRIME, and not finish the paint job, do you spray or back roll, that is the question:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> If your only to PRIME, and not finish the paint job, do you spray or back roll, that is the question:yes:


You would have to back roll it to cover your own arse :yes:

Or power roll it, Those power rollers must be crap, They have been around for ever and no ones mentioned them before???
I guess its up to me to find out then??

Worky, Whats your take (Opinion) On power rollers then??
I could look up Paintalk but F that, I havent got 24hrs straight to read mountians of pointless jibber jabber to maybe strike a needle in a hay stack. 

Goodmantee, Im also interested to know whats up with the wallcoverings and why they want it primed?? Is it paste the wall first stuff.

Worky, Do you do any wallpaper/coverings?? Do you use wall size on bare drywall first then hang the paper or do you prime the wall first??

Here in nz its brush or roll "size" ( Clear glue like stuff) on the bare board then paper, No primer required, ( I have no idea why its called size either, Seems a silly name for it)


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Goodmantee, Im also interested to know whats up with the wallcoverings and why they want it primed?? Is it paste the wall first stuff.

From what i can gather, it's paste the wall first then I think. Like a bill board. 1 piece for the whole wall.


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

cazna said:


> Worky, Whats your take (Opinion) On power rollers then??
> I could look up Paintalk but F that, I havent got 24hrs straight to read mountians of pointless jibber jabber to maybe strike a needle in a hay stack.


I do not have much experience with them and I am sure they have their place but when I am doing NC I just run an airless without the attachment and when doing residential I just don't want to drag a hose through their home. Capt uses them though. 




cazna said:


> Worky, Do you do any wallpaper/coverings?? Do you use wall size on bare drywall first then hang the paper or do you prime the wall first??


I do not we are a bunch of self trained forgot the roots types here in the states and hanging is not my thing but I have removed plenty of it. 
Priming of the wall is the normal and right way to do it here. The hangers I know like to use Gardz as their primer.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> You would have to back roll it to cover your own arse :yes:
> 
> Or power roll it, Those power rollers must be crap, They have been around for ever and no ones mentioned them before???
> I guess its up to me to find out then??
> ...


I hear you cazna:thumbup:

I think the power roller is a cool idea, I bought one of those one's you sucked up the paint like a compound tube. And I was like cool. Then when I use to go to PT. I seen where the Captain "S" was talking about the type you hook to a sprayer, and I was like "even cooler" .But those painters at paint talk seemed un-cool to them, just a few seemed to like them, you know how new things scare painters. And yes it is hard to find info over there at PT. 3 or 4 pages of [email protected] over there till someone gives a answer. Here someone usually gives the answer right away...... then we go off track

Some of the reasons I heard for priming the rock for wall paper are, they just want it sealed, mold etc. Then it does help the wall paper guy, with the gluing and adjusting of the paper, and working the bubbles out. Then if you ever want to remove the paper one day, it is more easy to do. There is some type of special clear stuff they use sometimes now, but I'm no expert on that so....... All I know where we live, they still prime the walls if it's getting wall paper


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Has anyone peeled wallpaper off a wall that was not painted or primed ?
The wallboard paper comes off with the wallpaper.. then your left with a crumbly core..


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Has anyone peeled wallpaper off a wall that was not painted or primed ?
> The wallboard paper comes off with the wallpaper.. then your left with a crumbly core..


Thats becouse they just put the wallpaper on the wall moore and didnt apply wall size first, The size is like a barrier between the wallboard paper and the wallpaper, As soon as its wet the wallsize gives up and the paper comes off easy, If no size is used then the wallpaper paste bonds to the wallboard paper and thats not good, It turns to crap like you said.

Priming the wall protects the wallboardpaper from coming off during the wallpaper stripping process, But personally for me primed walls are a bitch to wallpaper as the bare sized wallboard has a little more suck to it and the wallpaper glue draws into the board and sticks the paper faster, If its a primed wall the the wallpaper glue has no where to go, so then the wallpaper stays wet and swells and stuffs the seams, they spring out on you and the paper can bubble and turn to crap, It could take days for the paste to dry on primed walls so the damage is slow, Heat the room even with sunlight and the wallpaper can dry to fast and shrink the seams, So an unprimed wall with correct wall size applyed then wallpaper it will give you the best results. BUT some of the heavier wallcoverings are paste the wall first then stick the wallpaper on so they dont expand and contract so much as paste the wallpaper........wallapapers, Confused are we :whistling2: Off topic i know but some of you may find it interesting.

And 2buck, Isnt paintalk annoying, They waffle on with so much BS i find myself saying oh for Fs sake just get to the point you bunch of verbal diarrhea experts  and i give up.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Thats becouse they just put the wallpaper on the wall moore and didnt apply wall size first, The size is like a barrier between the wallboard paper and the wallpaper, As soon as its wet the wallsize gives up and the paper comes off easy, If no size is used then the wallpaper paste bonds to the wallboard paper and thats not good, It turns to crap like you said.
> 
> Priming the wall protects the wallboardpaper from coming off during the wallpaper stripping process, But personally for me primed walls are a bitch to wallpaper as the bare sized wallboard has a little more suck to it and the wallpaper glue draws into the board and sticks the paper faster, If its a primed wall the the wallpaper glue has no where to go, so then the wallpaper stays wet and swells and stuffs the seams, they spring out on you and the paper can bubble and turn to crap, It could take days for the paste to dry on primed walls so the damage is slow, Heat the room even with sunlight and the wallpaper can dry to fast and shrink the seams, So an unprimed wall with correct wall size applyed then wallpaper it will give you the best results. BUT some of the heavier wallcoverings are paste the wall first then stick the wallpaper on so they dont expand and contract so much as paste the wallpaper........wallapapers, Confused are we :whistling2: Off topic i know but some of you may find it interesting.
> 
> And 2buck, Isnt paintalk annoying, They waffle on with so much BS i find myself saying oh for Fs sake just get to the point you bunch of verbal diarrhea experts  and i give up.


So is this sizing stuff crystal clear when applied. I could be wrong but I think I have heard that word "sizing" used before.

I was taught to wall paper when I was around 17 (summer job) or should I say I helped the big boss, He always used paste, no matter what the paper, swore by it, and don't ask why, I was young and wasn't paying attention, it was boring:yes: beaver trapping was on my mind at that age:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> So is this sizing stuff crystal clear when applied. I could be wrong but I think I have heard that word "sizing" used before.
> 
> I was taught to wall paper when I was around 17 (summer job) or should I say I helped the big boss, He always used paste, no matter what the paper, swore by it, and don't ask why, I was young and wasn't paying attention, it was boring:yes: beaver trapping was on my mind at that age:yes:


Yes its clear, Comes in powered packet form, Just mix it and apply to the walls, You can tell if its on the wall or lick the end of your finger, then rub the wall, If its goes slippery and slimey its the size, ( Bit like beaver :thumbsup A bare wall wont do that.

We had pre pasted wallpaper now as well, You just wet the paper in water bath, this activates the glue on the back of the paper, Thats great to use once you figure it out, All wallaper use to need pasted but then they invented pre paste, The old timers still brush paste and all that does is activate the pre paste glue with the water in the paste, The pre paste steals the added paste and the wallpaper feels dry and dosnt stick very well


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Sprayed my first rooms today. Went pretty well. :thumbup:

Learnt one lesson today. always wear trousers when sparying. I looked like a yeti.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Haha, Get some disposable over alls and have old shoes for spraying :thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I use a power roller,, its a graco, it has a 9" roller on it,,,, bought it for like 300.00 at ICI,,, but I see that lowes is now selling graco sprayers, and has the same rig for like 100.00. 

If I'm doing new construction (fast and furious), I just shield the ceiling, spray the wall and back roll it,,, done in one coat.

If its a little "better" job,,, meaning abit more money and they want two coats,,, I still spray the first coat and back-roll it. Then I roll the second coat on with a power roller.

In other words,,, If I spray I back-roll,, If I roll without a sprayer, I use the power roller. It saves so much time and is such a better tool, it strains credulity. I would no more roll out of a bucket than I would drive a horse and buggy to work,,,, no matter what they tell you at PT.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Goodmanatee said:


> Sprayed my first rooms today. Went pretty well. :thumbup:
> 
> Learnt one lesson today. always wear trousers when sparying. I looked like a yeti.


So goodmanatee, did you back roll or not


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

I did not back roll. Naughty goodmanatee.!
It's different over here. Not that many painters spray and the ones that do, i've never seen backroll. 
Not looking for a level 5 finish. Just sealed up.
I did the sample room first. All the suits and agents had a look. They were happy with it, so I cracked on. Did about 2500m2 and it looked right for my first time. Would take a pic. But it's not my taping and it's rough. Bulgrian gang.


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

*Power Roller*

You guy's are mentioning power rollers. Yes, they do work. I have used them several times. It is an easy alternative to spraying and back rolling the wall finish. You will eliminate the need for a swivel head on your spray wand and the possibility of "smoking" the ceiling. 

In my opinion the power roller works best when one guy uses the power roller to put the paint on the wall and someone comes behind him and lays the paint off. It is basically back rolling the roll.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

cazna said:


> Set airless at around 1800psi, Play with it, Say 1700ish or 1900ish, Thin the sealer, About 1.5litres per 10litre bucket. Use a 515 spray tip, Once you get the feel of it maybe go a 519, The first number on a spray tip is the fan width, Then double it, So a 5 is a 10inch fan, A 4 is 8 inch fan etc the last 2 numbers are size of spray hole so 15, bigger is 19, etc.
> Start anywhere you want but i go ceilings then walls, Yes walk and move a lot when spraying, dont stand in one spot, Use a 10inch extension wand on your gun, If you have no wand it will be a nightmere, to long and it will get messy, Use a clean shot value to help with gun spitting, If it still spits put an ez packing seal in the gun. Cross hatch spray everything, IE spray up and down, dont worry if it looks a bit patchy, then spray accross ways getting it better this time. Confused are we :blink:
> 
> If i had someone on the hose moving it about with me which make life much easier maybe i would do 30 rooms or so with a clean run and windows masked up, Hard to judge, You will only prob do a few first day, more the second and so on.
> ...


good words 2Kiwicazna being a tight wad you only shoot yourself in the foot


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