# Tool for small quantities



## TRGUY

Hi 
I'm new here, first post - I didn't search this, I'm a GC we do a lot of kitchens and baths less than 10 sheets bigger stuff over 25 sheets we sub. Currently we're apply mesh tape with a dispenser, corners are done with a corner roller and we have BTE flushers. Hate the roller, love the flushers. Can anyone recommend a practical set up for the small jobs? We do all flats by hand.
Thanks


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## Mudshark

TRGUY said:


> Hi
> I'm new here, first post - I didn't search this, I'm a GC we do a lot of kitchens and baths less than 10 sheets bigger stuff over 25 sheets we sub. Currently we're apply mesh tape with a dispenser, corners are done with a corner roller and we have BTE flushers. Hate the roller, love the flushers. Can anyone recommend a practical set up for the small jobs? We do all flats by hand.
> Thanks


There is a big debate amongst some of the people using this forum as to which is better, mesh tape or paper tape. I am all for paper tape. If there is going to be problems with mesh, it is more likely in the corners. Just use paper....


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## boco

Get a Homax banjo. Good for small jobs. You can apply tape on butts, flats and angles. Easy to clean


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## cdwoodcox

I actually use mesh in my flats. But being that you're doing all small jobs I will agree with above post just use paper everywhere. As far as tools for a job that size just a set of knives, corner roller, maybe a banjo, pole sander, if needed stomp brush or texture hopper mixing drill and wand, empty buckets and a wash brush.. That is what I would send with 1 of my guys.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mudshark said:


> There is a big debate amongst some of the people using this forum as to which is better, mesh tape or paper tape. I am all for paper tape. If there is going to be problems with mesh, it is more likely in the corners. Just use paper....


I use a mesh tape to pull a car out of a ditch. Paper tape just wasn't strong enough to do it.


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## moore

TRGUY said:


> Hi
> I'm new here, first post - I didn't search this, I'm a GC we do a lot of kitchens and baths less than 10 sheets bigger stuff over 25 sheets we sub. Currently we're apply mesh tape with a dispenser, corners are done with a corner roller and we have BTE flushers. Hate the roller, love the flushers. Can anyone recommend a practical set up for the small jobs? We do all flats by hand.
> Thanks


 Welcome to Canada's premere source of drywall infomation

Mesh has it place.:yes: Just not on seams /butts/ or angles.

:thumbup:


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## silverstilts

Back to this mesh vs paper tape again? :boxing: Well we all know anyone can stick mesh to a wall, but it takes a real taper to properly tape with perfatape. Solid bond period, with the right mud. :thumbsup:


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> Welcome to Canada's premere source of drywall infomation
> 
> Mesh has it place.:yes: Just not on seams /butts/ or angles.
> 
> :thumbup:


You can also use paper tape to wipe your bottom. And then your work will look and smell like What's up with the censorship on here Must be a canuck thing.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mr.Brightstar said:


> You can also use paper tape to wipe your bottom. And then your work will look and smell like What's up with the censorship on here Must be a canuck thing.


Oh sure, blame Canada:furious:

Thats it, sending one foot of snow, to DUMP on Michigan to night

mark my words on that:whistling2:


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## silverstilts

moore said:


> Welcome to Canada's premere source of drywall infomation
> 
> Mesh has it place.:yes: Just not on seams /butts/ or angles.
> 
> :thumbup:


 You can always use it with bondo and do some body work, thats one good thing about mesh.


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## Mr.Brightstar

silverstilts said:


> You can always use it with bondo and do some body work, thats one good thing about mesh.


Exactly my point. It's not the tape that gives it strength It's the mud. A


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## JustMe

TRGUY said:


> Hi
> I'm new here, first post - I didn't search this, I'm a GC we do a lot of kitchens and baths less than 10 sheets bigger stuff over 25 sheets we sub. Currently we're apply mesh tape with a dispenser, corners are done with a corner roller and we have BTE flushers. Hate the roller, love the flushers. Can anyone recommend a practical set up for the small jobs? We do all flats by hand.
> Thanks


Since you already have BTE flushers and a roller......

I'd drop the mesh and go to paper tape - or use FibaFuse (which isn't FibaTape) in your flats and paper elsewhere. (I'd say FibaFuse on butts as well, If you didn't cut it too much while wiping with knife - something guys sometimes do, when they're not familiar enough with working it.)
Get a 42" mud tube like this - http://www.walltools.com/columbia-cmt42.html - along with tube ends for putting on the tapes and to give you the mud to 2nd/final coat your angles, using a flusher.

http://www.walltools.com/better-than-ever-90-degree-inside-applicator-ica-01.html

http://www.walltools.com/better-than-ever-flat-applicator-a-f-01.html


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## Mr.Brightstar

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh sure, blame Canada:furious:
> 
> Thats it, sending one foot of snow, to DUMP on Michigan to night
> 
> mark my words on that:whistling2:


"A" Were ready. "A"


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> You can also use paper tape to wipe your bottom. And then your work will look and smell like What's up with the censorship on here Must be a canuck thing.


 HEY!! I have a roll of mesh in the truck. Just in case I run out of Mcdonalds napkins .

We don't need censors....We got Silverstilts:thumbsup: LOL!!


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## 2buckcanuck

TRGUY said:


> Hi
> I'm new here, first post - I didn't search this, I'm a GC we do a lot of kitchens and baths less than 10 sheets bigger stuff over 25 sheets we sub. Currently we're apply mesh tape with a dispenser, corners are done with a corner roller and we have BTE flushers. Hate the roller, love the flushers. Can anyone recommend a practical set up for the small jobs? We do all flats by hand.
> Thanks


What type of mud are you using???:blink:


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Exactly my point. It's not the tape that gives it strength It's the mud. A


 Were not taping sheetrock with bondo.

You guy's keep pushing the mesh ...It's a good thing!


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> What type of mud are you using???:blink:


That's a good question.

Note, TR. My suggestion is based on using AP mud, not hot muds.


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## Kiwiman

And I'll say it again......................

*FibaFuse!*


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## Mr.Brightstar

JustMe said:


> That's a good question.
> 
> Note, TR. My suggestion is based on using AP mud, not hot muds.


What are the first two ingredients in hot mud? Rome was built with those first two ingredients.


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## Mudshark

Mr.Brightstar said:


> What are the first two ingredients in hot mud? Rome was built with those first two ingredients.


Rome may have been built with *PLASTER* but *PARIS* is in France. :euro:


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mudshark said:


> Rome may have been built with PLASTER but PARIS is in France. :euro:


Plaster of Paris or molding plaster Is 18 times stronger than concrete. Lime gives it flexibility. 

So does anybody know why the mud gets hot?


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## SlimPickins

silverstilts said:


> Back to this mesh vs paper tape again? :boxing: but it takes a real taper to properly tape with perfatape.


:lol:

It takes a _real_ taper to make mesh work without failure.:whistling2:


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## Mudshark

It takes a smart taper to go with the proven products like paper tape and not get swept up with consumer ads for new products. :whistling2:


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mudshark said:


> It takes a smart taper to go with the proven products like paper tape and not get swept up with consumer ads for new products. :whistling2:


The days of horsehair plaster are gone. That was a proven method for thousands of years. ( Can't do Wistling face on phone. )


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> The days of horsehair plaster are gone. That was a proven method for thousands of years. ( Can't do Wistling face on phone. )


 Your comparing horse hair plaster to mesh tape?


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## SlimPickins

Mudshark said:


> It takes a smart taper to go with the proven products like paper tape and not get swept up with consumer ads for new products. :whistling2:


 So you're saying that a real taper won't try new things that might improve his trade?

I've said it once, and I'll say it a couple more times (maybe)...._all_ the stuff works if you know how to work it. There are no absolutes.


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## Mudshark

SlimPickins said:


> So you're saying that a real taper won't try new things that might improve his trade?
> 
> I've said it once, and I'll say it a couple more times (maybe)...._all_ the stuff works if you know how to work it. There are no absolutes.


I suppose the key words in your statement Slim are *might improve.*

If there truly is a noticeable improvement then go for it. I just dont see any big improvement over paper tape is all.


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Plaster of Paris or molding plaster Is 18 times stronger than concrete. Lime gives it flexibility.
> 
> So does anybody know why the mud gets hot?


 Concrete gets stronger as it cures. Once the curing process is done It goes the other way...It starts softing. Iv'e been told that concrete Is good for 30-40 years before It starts causing problems.

Is plaster the same way?:blink:?


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> Concrete gets stronger as it cures. Once the curing process is done It goes the other way...It starts softing. Iv'e been told that concrete Is good for 30-40 years before It starts causing problems.
> 
> Is plaster the same way?:blink:?


With plaster the faster it sets the stronger it is. Plaster has been around for thousands of years in the Pyramids in the walls of Jericho And they're still around just as strong as the day they were made. Plasters weakness is water It is useless to use as a foundation sidewalk or for roads ect.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mr.Brightstar said:


> With plaster the faster it sets the stronger it is. Plaster has been around for thousands of years in the Pyramids in the walls of Jericho And they're still around just as strong as the day they were made. Plasters weakness is water It is useless to use as a foundation sidewalk or for roads ect.


Theres also a old saying of "When in Rome, do as the Romans"

So lets say, when taping, Act as a taper, when doing plaster, act as a plasterer:whistling2:

It's great you know plaster stuff, I worked with a old partner that was a expert at it, so I'm no expert with plaster. But I do know the different methods between the two, the pro's and cons and so on....

But why apply plaster methods to taping, hence your argument to mesh tape. No sense on arguing which is stronger, plaster and drywall are not structural (has shear strength), it is cosmetic.

Not trying to be mean here, but your one post, saying it would take 3 guys to tape out 8,000 sq ft, around seven days, is a bit too long. I just did a house last week, straight foreword one , with 7,700 sq in six days by myself(8 hour days). How did I do it, with a bazooka, boxes, nail spotters, power sander, and lots of coffee:thumbup:

When in Rome, do as the Romans:yes:....... Why apply plaster methods to taping??????


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## moore

moore said:


> Concrete gets stronger as it cures. Once the curing process is done It goes the other way...It starts softing. Iv'e been told that concrete Is good for 30-40 years before It starts causing problems.
> 
> Is plaster the same way?:blink:?


 I wasn't saying we should build bridges out of plaster:blink:
Just wandering how long it takes before plaster starts to break down.

I did a basement job not to many moons ago..The house was all plaster. big home. I asked the h/o how old the home was ..and how the plaster was holding up..They said the home was 25 years old and there was not a single flaw walls or ceilngs. I was like 
I couldn't help but think to myself [ you should have called that plasterer back to do your basement]:laughing:


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## Mr.Brightstar

2buckcanuck said:


> Theres also a old saying of "When in Rome, do as the Romans"
> 
> So lets say, when taping, Act as a taper, when doing plaster, act as a plasterer:whistling2:
> 
> It's great you know plaster stuff, I worked with a old partner that was a expert at it, so I'm no expert with plaster. But I do know the different methods between the two, the pro's and cons and so on....
> 
> But why apply plaster methods to taping, hence your argument to mesh tape. No sense on arguing which is stronger, plaster and drywall are not structural (has shear strength), it is cosmetic.
> 
> Not trying to be mean here, but your one post, saying it would take 3 guys to tape out 8,000 sq ft, around seven days, is a bit too long. I just did a house last week, straight foreword one , with 7,700 sq in six days by myself(8 hour days). How did I do it, with a bazooka, boxes, nail spotters, power sander, and lots of coffee:thumbup:
> 
> When in Rome, do as the Romans:yes:....... Why apply plaster methods to taping??????


There's also a saying "that's how we do it around here" 

I have been shown by plasters how to tape drywall And even the old-timers love the mesh. I hear stories of what it used to be stapled on. Then Dura bond brown bag for bed coat. Then any topping after that. 

Yes we are plasters that do drywall. We apply a lot of the same techniques to Tapeing. Same technique different materials. I have never used a mud pan, Banjo, Or bazooka. I am not a drywaller And I look like a fool on those tools. 

That job was to hang tape and finish a trilevel complete gut job. If you can hang tape and finish 7700 ft.² All by yourself You're a better drywaller than me. 

I hope to visit Rome someday.  Thing


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## moore

7,700 ft Is only 160 boards ..I can't touch 2bucks time line ,,but I alone can have it ready for paint in less than two weeks ..all hand finish except for flat boxing ...no mesh


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> 7,700 ft Is only 160 boards ..I can't touch 2bucks time line ,,but I alone can have it ready for paint in less than two weeks ..all hand finish except for flat boxing ...no mesh


That's a lot of board to carry upstairs and downstairs All by yourself. Then who's going to go do estimates? And the little cash bonus jobs that pop up regularly? My point is it takes manpower Skilled manpower nevertheless As you know that cost a lot of money that just passes right through you. 

Mesh can solve all your problems. Whistling


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> That's a lot of board to carry upstairs and downstairs All by yourself. Then who's going to go do estimates? And the little cash bonus jobs that pop up regularly? My point is it takes manpower Skilled manpower nevertheless As you know that cost a lot of money that just passes right through you.
> 
> Mesh can solve all your problems. Whistling


 I was talkin bout just finishing the 160. All those little chit jobs that pop up during can wait till i'm done with the real check..If the small repairs /chit work is close by to the house i'm on ..That's a different story.. 

I love mesh!!!! It sends me tons of work:] :whistling2:


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> I was talkin bout just finishing the 160. All those little chit jobs that pop up during can wait till i'm done with the real check..If the small repairs /chit work is close by to the house i'm on ..That's a different story..
> 
> I love mesh!!!! It sends me tons of work:] :whistling2:


If it was just to tape and finish I would have it done in four to five days bid for six. 

Mesh with all-purpose equals bad. 

Mesh with hot mud equals rock solid results. 

All purpose is not for all purposes. Easy sand does not sand easily. No wonder you're so confused they need to switch the labeling around.


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## SlimPickins

Mr.Brightstar said:


> That job was to hang tape and finish a trilevel complete gut job. If you can hang tape and finish 7700 ft.² All by yourself You're a better drywaller than me.


I just hung and finished 6000 feet on a 3 story crooked gut on a hundred year old house and it took me 13 and a 1/2 days. I suck


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## gazman

Two of us will finish a house on Monday. It is just over 600m2 (6500 ft) In total 5 days ( So far two 8 hr days one 9 hr and one 7hr day. Monday should be a 6 hr day) to hang tape cornice and sand. This is the first house that I have ran ALL the tapes with the zooka. 
The system. Tape flats with Zooka. 7" box, 10" box, skim with 12" box. All bead three coats by hand. Internals tape with zooka, roll with Columbia roller, flush with Tapepro tin head. Top with 3.5" Northstar on the mudrunner.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mr.Brightstar said:


> There's also a saying "that's how we do it around here"
> 
> I have been shown by plasters how to tape drywall And even the old-timers love the mesh. I hear stories of what it used to be stapled on. Then Dura bond brown bag for bed coat. Then any topping after that.
> 
> Yes we are plasters that do drywall. We apply a lot of the same techniques to Tapeing. Same technique different materials. I have never used a mud pan, Banjo, Or bazooka. I am not a drywaller And I look like a fool on those tools.
> 
> That job was to hang tape and finish a trilevel complete gut job. If you can hang tape and finish 7700 ft.² All by yourself You're a better drywaller than me.
> 
> I hope to visit Rome someday.  Thing


What is it with people who have the word "STAR" in their name, Mudstar, and now brightstar:furious:

Looks like you said it all in your post,," I am not a drywaller"

GAME OVER:furious::furious:


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## Mr.Brightstar

2buckcanuck said:


> What is it with people who have the word "STAR" in their name, Mudstar, and now brightstar:furious:
> 
> Looks like you said it all in your post,," I am not a drywaller"
> 
> GAME OVER:furious::furious:


Keep wishing for your star, maybe you'll find it in the painting section.

I do have one drywall tool a drywall lift. My laborer can hang 12 foot sheets on the ceiling all by himself, He can also prefill and apply mesh tape No skills necessary.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Keep wishing for your star, maybe you'll find it in the painting section.
> 
> I do have one drywall tool a drywall lift. My laborer can hang 12 foot sheets on the ceiling all by himself, He can also prefill and apply mesh tape No skills necessary.


Now I half to apologize to Mudstar (sorry Mudstar), and quote from one of his post......#14 http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/what-charge-skim-coating-walls-3959/

Oh, but I will agree with you on something you say in your post Mr. Brightstar. (whose star is fading:whistling2.

Mesh Tape, no skills, a DIY product:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> I just hung and finished 6000 feet on a 3 story crooked gut on a hundred year old house and it took me 13 and a 1/2 days. I suck


That's actually good for a beat up old reno.

Good thing you didn't get it done in ten days though, you would half to change your name to slimpickinSTAR:whistling2:



gazman said:


> Two of us will finish a house on Monday. It is just over 600m2 (6500 ft) In total 5 days ( So far two 8 hr days one 9 hr and one 7hr day. Monday should be a 6 hr day) to hang tape cornice and sand. This is the first house that I have ran ALL the tapes with the zooka.
> The system. Tape flats with Zooka. 7" box, 10" box, skim with 12" box. All bead three coats by hand. Internals tape with zooka, roll with Columbia roller, flush with Tapepro tin head. Top with 3.5" Northstar on the mudrunner.


What !!!!!!:blink:

No screws or top angles to do, you should be done in 2 days:furious:

:jester:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> That's actually good for a beat up old reno.
> 
> Good thing you didn't get it done in ten days though, you would half to change your name to slimpickinSTAR:whistling2:
> 
> :jester:


It would have gone a lot quicker if there weren't 200 feet of no-coat in the angles and 500 ft. of chopped up bead


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> What is it with people who have the word "STAR" in their name, Mudstar, and now brightstar:furious:
> 
> Looks like you said it all in your post,," I am not a drywaller"
> 
> GAME OVER:furious::furious:


 I'd say Mudstar's alot brighter:whistling2:


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## Kiwiman

Gee thanks guy's, you just made me realize what slow old fart I am now :furious:, 
you lot must be buying your drugs off Lance Armstrong :blink:


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## Mr.Brightstar

2buckcanuck said:


> Now I half to apologize to Mudstar (sorry Mudstar), and quote from one of his post......#14 http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/what-charge-skim-coating-walls-3959/
> 
> Oh, but I will agree with you on something you say in your post Mr. Brightstar. (whose star is fading:whistling2.
> 
> Mesh Tape, no skills, a DIY product:thumbup:


It doesn't take skills to put mesh tape on I can get a drunk monkey to do that. It takes a lot of skills to make it look good in two coats. Hold onto your panties for this. We mix full buckets of 90 hot mud It takes a bag and I have to make one full bucket. Then it's on the wall before it sets. We don't cry about butt joints Crooked angles ect. There is no crying in Plastering. I take a lot of jobs the drywaller's run from around here. In the worst case I just skimcoat everything. Solid results satisfaction guaranteed.


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> I'd say Mudstar's alot brighter


Actually he is smart, he was one of the first people to PM me when I first joined this site.

I'm sure he's a good guy in the real world, just his attitude changed to this site. I think he wanted this site to be exclusively for "professionals", not a training site for wannabes and a place to be giving away secrets. He wanted it to be a more controlled site.

I can see his point in some ways, you get guys saying "me$h tape rules and machines suck and so on. It's called please go away DIY guy. Plus how would you control the site, As to who is a pro or not.

Even you were Anti machine taper when you first came to this site Moore, remember how we use to fight, can't find those old post:whistling2:. So some guys come on going blah blah blah, my way is the best, then others come on and realize there is more than one way to skin a cat, as the Captain says. But you are still a stubborn S.O.B Moore:thumbup:, but imagine if things were the way Mudstar wanted things, you would of been Banned

I feel you can give a person all types of opportunities, knowledge, facts, information, and secret wisdom, but it's what they do with it, that dictates weather they will succeed or fail.... or in laymen terms, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.

Plus I miss the "cazna the tool whore" VS "Mudstar the knows it all" battles


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## Perkcon

So if using a full bucket of 90 before it goes off is a special skill then we all must be plaster guys. I understand that it is the final product that counts and now what you use to get it there, but I want to be able to stand by my work years down the road. Just one question if mesh tape is so great how do you fire tape with it?? :confused1:


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> It doesn't take skills to put mesh tape on I can get a drunk monkey to do that. It takes a lot of skills to make it look good in two coats. Hold onto your panties for this. We mix full buckets of 90 hot mud It takes a bag and I have to make one full bucket. Then it's on the wall before it sets. We don't cry about butt joints Crooked angles ect. There is no crying in Plastering. I take a lot of jobs the drywaller's run from around here. In the worst case I just skimcoat everything. Solid results satisfaction guaranteed.


 WOW!! You mixed up a bag and a' have' of 90 in 1 bucket ..then pushed it out before it set???? .

You do know ..You called yourself a drunk monkey..:whistling2:


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## Perkcon

TRguy sorry we kinda ran away with your thread, other than a banjo your set up seems fine, if you find something that works for you run with it. Every one is different and there are many ways to skin a cat. If you are happy with your end product and satisfied with the man hours it took perfect. If not change it up and experiment a bit. Fair warning new tools are addicting.


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> WOW!! You mixed up a bag and a' have' of 90 in 1 bucket ..then pushed it out before it set????http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/s_shocked-18.gif .
> 
> You do know ..You called yourself a drunk monkey..:whistling2:


To be more specific bags Plearle, Sometimes 15 to 20 gallons at a time Mixed in a 50 gallon drum and shoveled onto a table. 

I'm sure you guys all do great work And hats off to you. I dont say my way is better than yours I learned how to tape with mesh And that's what I prefer. Once you have your ways set you stick to your guns. We can all learn from each other. I am interested in getting a mud pan roller for the ceiling. I have even consider hiring drywaller's To run the mud pan roller And learn from them.


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## saskataper

What the f is a "mud pan roller"?


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## 2buckcanuck

Mr.Brightstar said:


> It doesn't take skills to put mesh tape on I can get a drunk monkey to do that. It takes a lot of skills to make it look good in two coats. Hold onto your panties for this. We mix full buckets of 90 hot mud It takes a bag and I have to make one full bucket. Then it's on the wall before it sets. We don't cry about butt joints Crooked angles ect. There is no crying in Plastering. I take a lot of jobs the drywaller's run from around here. In the worst case I just skimcoat everything. Solid results satisfaction guaranteed.


Big deal, I can mix up three buckets of ninety and get it on the wall:whistling2:

lets educate you here.

mesh tape gains it's strength when used in conjunction with Hotmud. As hotmud sets/dries, it begins to expand and stretch on the Mesh tape to give it its tensile strength. But it's a brittle strength, I would compare it to riveting metal to metal.

Paper tape is simple in theory, it's kindergarten stuff. You are gluing paper to paper with a BONDING agent, called mud. Bonding is more like welding metal to metal.

Both systems can crack, but here's the secret. If something has a hairline crack with paper, it remains hidden behind the paper. With me$h, there is nothing for it to hide behind, it appears right away. Both systems fail if there is majour cracking:yes:

Then there is old vs new with housing. Most guys who brag about using Mesh are basement or Reno kings, their dealing with houses that have already settled. New houses move and settle, odds go up that something is going to give, and there is not a damn thing we can do to stop it, but we can control minour cracking with the use of paper.

Also, Hotmud has less bonding power than a good taping mud. Not going to knock hotmud, it has it's place. Good for catching things up, useful in humid climates, patches and small jobs, where you want to limit your trips. But to to use it to replace AP mud on large scale jobs is just plain nuts:furious:, Your losing in production, your not gaining, thats a fact.

And as a foot note, I work for a large DWC who has been in business for over 35 years, they control the market. I can't guess how many houses they have done in that time, it's in the thousands. the number one product they will not allow on the job,,,,,,,, Me$h tape.

A company in business that long, has learned to keep it's punch out list down:thumbsup:


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## Mr.Brightstar

2buckcanuck said:


> Big deal, I can mix up three buckets of ninety and get it on the wall:whistling2:
> 
> lets educate you here.
> 
> mesh tape gains it's strength when used in conjunction with Hotmud. As hotmud sets/dries, it begins to expand and stretch on the Mesh tape to give it its tensile strength. But it's a brittle strength, I would compare it to riveting metal to metal.
> 
> Paper tape is simple in theory, it's kindergarten stuff. You are gluing paper to paper with a BONDING agent, called mud. Bonding is more like welding metal to metal.
> 
> Both systems can crack, but here's the secret. If something has a hairline crack with paper, it remains hidden behind the paper. With me$h, there is nothing for it to hide behind, it appears right away. Both systems fail if there is majour cracking:yes:
> 
> Then there is old vs new with housing. Most guys who brag about using Mesh are basement or Reno kings, their dealing with houses that have already settled. New houses move and settle, odds go up that something is going to give, and there is not a damn thing we can do to stop it, but we can control minour cracking with the use of paper.
> 
> Also, Hotmud has less bonding power than a good taping mud. Not going to knock hotmud, it has it's place. Good for catching things up, useful in humid climates, patches and small jobs, where you want to limit your trips. But to to use it to replace AP mud on large scale jobs is just plain nuts:furious:, Your losing in production, your not gaining, thats a fact.
> 
> And as a foot note, I work for a large DWC who has been in business for over 35 years, they control the market. I can't guess how many houses they have done in that time, it's in the thousands. the number one product they will not allow on the job,,,,,,,, Me$h tape.
> 
> A company in business that long, has learned to keep it's punch out list down:thumbsup:


With hot mud it's all on how it's mixed. Mix it thick as peanut butter for maximum strength. It's tougher to trowel out but You want strength and durability. Mix it in a slurry with too much water and you basically have Drywall. Brittle, shrinkage, and cracks. 

I am a small contractor Reno you could say I'm fine with that. I put 12 years in with a plastering company out of local 67 Detroit. The mud hit the fan in 2008 and I had no job any more. I started my business in one of the worst recessions in my lifetime. I'm not making $1 million but I am making it. The quality of life has gone up. 

What do you guys charge a foot for full install in Canucks land?


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> With hot mud it's all on how it's mixed. Mix it thick as peanut butter for maximum strength. It's tougher to trowel out but You want strength and durability. Mix it in a slurry with too much water and you basically have Drywall. Brittle, shrinkage, and cracks.
> 
> I am a small contractor Reno you could say I'm fine with that. I put 12 years in with a plastering company out of local 67 Detroit. The mud hit the fan in 2008 and I had no job any more. I started my business in one of the worst recessions in my lifetime. I'm not making $1 million but I am making it. The quality of life has gone up.
> 
> What do you guys charge a foot for full install in Canucks land?


 2$ PER FT..:yes: LABOR!!!:yes:


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> 2$ PER FT..:yes: LABOR!!!:yes:


That's a bit more then here. Between $1.40 & $1.60 is the Window of opportunity.


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> That's a bit more then here. Between $1.40 & $1.60 is the Window of opportunity.


 BS:blink:


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> BS:blink:


It's cutthroat in the Reno world


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> It's cutthroat in the Reno world


 Not bad $$ for a drunk monkey..


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## Mudshark

Mr.Brightstar said:


> To be more specific bags Plearle
> ..... I am interested in getting a mud pan roller for the ceiling. I have even consider hiring drywaller's To run the mud pan roller And learn from them.


The word is spelled plural not Plearle, and yes WTF is a mud pan roller? :blink:


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mudshark said:


> The word is spelled plural not Plearle, and yes WTF is a mud pan roller? :blink:


Great first the man behind the curtain shakes me up now the grammar police. No spellcheck on my phone deal with it. 

Does that mud pan roller go side to side?


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Great first the man behind the curtain shakes me up now the grammar police. No spellcheck on my phone deal with it.
> 
> Does that mud pan roller go side to side?


I'm with ya ..spell check is for pussys ...WTF is a mud pan roller?:blink::blink:

All I get Is a diy site...http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-P...g/Wall-Repair/how-to-skim-coat-walls/View-All


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## Mr.Brightstar

moore said:


> I'm with ya ..spell check is for pussys ...WTF is a mud pan roller?:blink::blink:
> 
> All I get Is a diy site...http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects/Wall---Ceiling/Wall-Repair/how-to-skim-coat-walls/View-All


 funny pictures. Our trade is not DYI Friendly. A wet trowel is a happy trowel. 

I think it's a bazooka? Pump it full of mud and somehow put it on Top of a bed coat Looks fast Time is money. I'm thinking of trying it.


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> funny pictures. Our trade is not DYI Friendly. A wet trowel is a happy trowel.
> 
> I think it's a bazooka? Pump it full of mud and somehow put it on Top of a bed coat Looks fast Time is money. I'm thinking of trying it.










you been living under rock?


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## Mr.Brightstar

Yes. Do they go side to side?


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## boco

Maybe you should watch a few videos. 2buck has some good ones


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## Mr.Brightstar

boco said:


> Maybe you should watch a few videos. 2buck has some good ones


Good idea.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Good idea.


I just watch a video on a bazooka that was not at all what I thought a bazooka was. 

This form is no help.


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## Mudshark

OMG

:w00t: :w00t: :wallbash:


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I just watch a video on a bazooka that was not at all what I thought a bazooka was.
> 
> This form is no help.


this is a mud pan roller http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GVZMxDsyDLk


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## Mudshark

moore said:


> this is a mud pan roller http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GVZMxDsyDLk


Hey that guy moves like a freight train :thumbsup:


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## gazman

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I just watch a video on a bazooka that was not at all what I thought a bazooka was.
> 
> This form is no help.



I'm sorry. You come on to a DRYWALL forum and tell the pro`s that mesh tape is the best way, then you watch a video of a zooka and say that this forum is no help.
Not to be rude but I suggest you pull your head in. You may be the best plasterer in the US of A but it is obvious you know jack about drywall. Maybe it is time to go quietly in to a corner and skin your own cat.


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## Mr.Brightstar

gazman said:


> I'm sorry. You come on to a DRYWALL forum and tell the pro`s that mesh tape is the best way, then you watch a video of a zooka and say that this forum is no help.
> Not to be rude but I suggest you pull your head in. You may be the best plasterer in the US of A but it is obvious you know jack about drywall. Maybe it is time to go quietly in to a corner and skin your own cat.


That box looks so easy I could get an unskilled drunk monkey to run it. On top of my bed coat of mesh. 

Adapt and overcome.


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## Mudshark

DO NOT FEED THE MONKEYS


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## moore

Mr.Brightstar said:


> That box looks so easy I could get an unskilled drunk monkey to run it. On top of my bed coat of mesh.
> 
> Adapt and overcome.


 Dude...You are ****in killin me!!!! lol!!!!!!


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## Mountain Man

Mr.Brightstar said:


> funny pictures. Our trade is not DYI Friendly. A wet trowel is a happy trowel.
> 
> I think it's a bazooka? Pump it full of mud and somehow put it on Top of a bed coat Looks fast Time is money. I'm thinking of trying it.


You think it's a bazooka and you're thinking of trying it? Well go ahead and drop $1200 plus $400 for a pump and gooseneck...and oh ya good luck with that!!!


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## moore

Mountain Man said:


> You think it's a bazooka and you're thinking of trying it? Well go ahead and drop $1200 plus $400 for a pump and gooseneck...and oh ya good luck with that!!!


 The zook may blow his mind.:blink:..Let's just start him off with the mud pan rollers,,,,


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mountain Man said:


> You think it's a bazooka and you're thinking of trying it? Well go ahead and drop $1200 plus $400 for a pump and gooseneck...and oh ya good luck with that!!!


I would hire a drywaller Who already has a box And experience running one. 

Monkey see monkey do yes.


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## SlimPickins

Jesus. Sometimes you guys make my head hurt.


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## Mountain Man

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I would hire a drywaller Who already has a box And experience running one.
> 
> Monkey see monkey do yes.


A drywaller with a box huh? What's her name?!? Come on man stick to plaster and leave the drywall to the pros!!! Plaster is an art in itself be glad you got that!!!


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## TRGUY

WOW - I certainly didn't want to start anything. Thanks for the responses, my goal was to find out what techniques/ equipment guys would use to increase productivity on less than 10 sheets ( kitchens / bathrooms).
Would a mud tube and corner and flat applicator be beneficial to us on these smaller jobs.


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## Mr.Brightstar

TRGUY said:


> WOW - I certainly didn't want to start anything. Thanks for the responses, my goal was to find out what techniques/ equipment guys would use to increase productivity on less than 10 sheets ( kitchens / bathrooms).
> Would a mud tube and corner and flat applicator be beneficial to us on these smaller jobs.



10 sheets 
I'd have it done before you could fill one of those mud pan rollers.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Mountain Man said:


> A drywaller with a box huh? What's her name?!? Come on man stick to plaster and leave the drywall to the pros!!! Plaster is an art in itself be glad you got that!!!


Yeah you got me another plaster that can't do drywall. Oh Weight that's the other way around.


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## saskataper

TRGUY said:


> WOW - I certainly didn't want to start anything. Thanks for the responses, my goal was to find out what techniques/ equipment guys would use to increase productivity on less than 10 sheets ( kitchens / bathrooms).
> Would a mud tube and corner and flat applicator be beneficial to us on these smaller jobs.


Yup that's what I still use on smaller jobs, plus a corner roller and flushers

http://www.canamtool.com/products/basic-tool-kit/

This is a good kit and canam is usually easy to find, I'd go with a 48" tube though 60 would be a little long


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## jcampbell

http://youtu.be/jemwlwtrRKQ

I think this guy is using a mud pan roller.......

Well....a roller and a mud pan ....


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## moore

jcampbell said:


> http://youtu.be/jemwlwtrRKQ
> 
> I think this guy is using a mud pan roller.......
> 
> Well....a roller and a mud pan ....


I could smoke that mexican on the wipe down.
Give me a walking bucket.. 8'' knife and a hawk.:yes:


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## Kiwiman

Thats not how you wipe down, this is how you wipe down :yes:.......................


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> http://youtu.be/jemwlwtrRKQ
> 
> I think this guy is using a mud pan roller.......
> 
> Well....a roller and a mud pan ....


I sorta get why someone invented that toy, but it's not really needed. Maybe a cute idea for a DIY, tell them to roll their flats first with a wall paper roller or something, they may end up with less air bubbles after the wipe it down with a knife.

Common knowledge to always start from the middle of the tape. But when it comes to up rights/verticals, like butts, short joints above doors or stand ups, some feel they need to climb or wear stilts. (like the guy in the video). Don't know what name you would give it, but we give the tape a quick little back wipe, or push backwards on the tape, with knife held at 35 degree angle. 

Explain more in the sheep shaggers post:whistling2:



Kiwiman said:


> Thats not how you wipe down, this is how you wipe down :yes:....................... dwt vids 007 - YouTube


2bjr is showing off in that vid, but he will start doing that if he gets behind chasing after the zook. if you switch what he is doing in the vid, to verticals, it's a fast method. If doing a high 4' long butt joint, push backwards on the tape top 2 to 3 inches, flip knife around (so excess mud you gathered now faces the wall) then wipe down with mud pan touching wall, to catch the mud.

Only time we put on the stilts, is if you cant reach the flats with the bazooka. The guy wiping out, his feet don't leave the ground, using a long wiping knife of coarse.

Just something for the newbs to think on, not you other PRO wall shaggers:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> I could smoke that mexican on the wipe down.
> Give me a walking bucket.. 8'' knife and a hawk.:yes:


Get a mud pan you stubborn bugger:thumbup:

"Thefinisher" is going to love hearing me say this, but the mud pan is the "WAY!!!!!!" better weapon when wiping out tapes. Your taping mud is way too runny for the hawk to be practical. Can only hold a limited amount of mud, too many trips to unload mud, and can get messy.

If the mud is RUNNY (MR Thefinisher) then the mud pan has a far greater holding capacity, I would say a ten to one holding capacity difference. Then there are way more tricks you can do with the mud pan well installing tape. The biggest trick, would be freeing up both hands, well holding the pan against the wall with your body:yes:


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