# Advantages of DURABOND joint compound?



## Drywall Solutions

Hello gentlemen,

I'm new to the forum, and also somewhat new to the world of professional drywall.

I'm putting together a "specification sheet" of the actual steps that we take to hang drywall, because we do some "extra" things that increase our time and material (and quality).

When a prospective customer asks what our price per sq/ft is, I don't consider the comparison an "apples to apples" because each different contractor has a different method of installation.

ANYWAYS, I'm writing up the advantages of using the Durabond joint compound on all the seams. I think I have the basics down, but would you all be kind enough to list all of the different advantages (both to yourself and to the homeowner) of using the product, and also any disadvantages I might not be aware of?

Thanks. And I already know I talk too much, but feel free to tell me anyways.

-JB


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## brdn_drywall

if you'd be kind enough to send me some i'll let you know,i'm a pro roc taper there regional rep spoiles me with to much freebies i haven't tried anything else in years(i don't know.......maybe a pallet and i could give you the pros and cons on it)


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## Drywall Solutions

brdn_drywall said:


> if you'd be kind enough to send me some i'll let you know,i'm a pro roc taper there regional rep spoiles me with to much freebies i haven't tried anything else in years(i don't know.......maybe a pallet and i could give you the pros and cons on it)


 
I agree to your product trial. I have placed a full pallet of Durabond out by my mail box with a note on it that says "please ship this to brdn_drywall from the internet".

I'll look forward to hearing your review.

:thumbup:


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## plasterworld

This may help:

http://www.usg.com/USG_Marketing_Co.../ShtrkDrBndJoint_Compound-Data_Sheet_J17A.pdf

I like to think of it as taking the worry out of a situation that contains worry.

Its a no worries solution.

Paul.


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## Drywall Solutions

Paul,

That document is exactly what I had in mind, thank you very much. We've been promoting the advantages as 1) better bond, 2) seal out moisture/humidity, 3) reduce cracks/blemishes.

If anyone has any other thoughts or wants to share their experience (good or bad), your comments would be welcome.

Thanks for the info so far.


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## gmdahli

The 2 advantages of durabond are less shrinkage and drying time, perfect for the 1st coat. A little harder to sand than topping.


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## Drywall Tycoon

The only disadvantage that I can think of. You have to be careful to keep it super flat or you will get crowned joints. I don't like the way topping or all purpose runs over the top of it. 

I've used Magnum AP for tape and bed coat and and USG Powder topping for 29 years. They are greasy through the tools. Good for older goats.


Old dogs can learn new tricks


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## Drywall Solutions

Thanks for the info above, especially the note on the potential crowning disadvantage.


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## big george

We use high denisity 90 for taping through the taper.Light sand 90 in the 10inch,and regurlar mud for finishing.Pro's is you can coat flats and angles in the same day.Just have to be careful not to get to heavey on the bond.When rought sanding make sure the edges and stop marks are sanded good,or the mud will sand but the bond wont.


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## Drywall Tycoon

I did this beauty shop about 23 years ago. They wanted a knock down texture.
I didn't have any texture mud but I had a half a dozen brown bag durabond 210.

Spun it up and splattered it on. Gave it about 15 minutes and wiped it down.
Made the best looking texture I've ever seen. Give it a whirl.
Don't try it with the easy sand. It's to fluffy and doesn't slide through the gun and blows apart to much.

Tycoon


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## KingOfDrywall

*durabond*

I like it for 2 reasons.
The obvious is the dry time.
But secondly the way it finishes. Whever I am doing smaller projects like a basement or an addition , I will run all 90 minute through my mud box. I'll than clean out my box and go back with a stainless steel knife and literally polish all the flats and buttjoints I just did.If you rub the durabond right before it sets up it polishes like glass. It totally eliminates sanding on the bed coat. I had one customer who was so cheap he only wanted one coat on everything......so I used this technique ,hence my new nickname was born. They call me "The 1 Coat Wonder".....lol


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## Whitey97

your 10" or your 12"?


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## KingOfDrywall

*10*

I only use the 10" mud boxes. I do kinda like the way the 12 looks when finished, but all in all it just seems on all the applications I've ever used it on that they work just the same.(only a 12 is harder for a new guy to push ,takes more time and it eats up more mud).
Than I follow up with a 10" knife after. This is the only time I use a stainless steel knife...............I couldn;t pull a stick of bead with a stainless, but it does work nice on the follow up behind the mud box.


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## silverstilts

I really don't know what to think , drying time ?????? it may set up but that don't mean that the moister is gone ,,,, and whats the point unless it is a small job of course , but then again some are saying to make sure to rough sand , what the hell , sand ? what kinda taper that is a good taper needs to sand in between coats , don't sound like a time saver to me , or make sure you don't crown the joints sounds like an amature , could be wrong i don't think you save a whole lot of time myself thinking about having to mix the **** up and then worry about cleaning your tools up..... Quick set does have its place for very small jobs and patch work not really to tape out any major jobs and surly not for quality jobs .. of course this is only my opinion and if ya don't like it don't really give a ****...


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## big george

Silver.I.am not saying that the bond is dry or you have to sand after taping.I guess you haven't read any of threads,I mostly do modular homes and the first coats are in bond.I just said to make sure to rought sand good.(what is taped today is painted tomorrow).There's no other way.


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## silverstilts

big george said:


> Silver.I.am not saying that the bond is dry or you have to sand after taping.I guess you haven't read any of threads,I mostly do modular homes and the first coats are in bond.I just said to make sure to rought sand good.(what is taped today is painted tomorrow).There's no other way.


 i know what you are saying and i have read many of the posts , i agree there are times to use it such as the one you just mentioned , but many think that is the best thing to come along since sliced bread which it isn't,t , i get the idea that many use it just to finish a job which should deserve more than just getting it done asap... even top coating over it seams to have problems such as bubbling since there is still moister there and the mud seems to heat up because of the catalyst in it causing further bubbling... again i agree there are times to use it but not just to get three coats on in a day on even less than a custom home...


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## Drywall Tycoon

I agree with SilverStilts on the problems with durabond not drying and bubbling on top coats. 

The new thread says he is new to to the world of drywall. That is a beginner. Telling someone to be careful not to crown the joints with bond does not indicate I'm an amateur. Sometimes I do get paid for my jobs.

Where we may all think we are legends in our own minds I did crown some joints back in 1981. I thought I was a pro like SilverStilts. 

Silver, are you Swedish or Norwegian ?


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## Whitey97

10-1 I say he's Norwegian


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## Drywall Tycoon

Avgjord !

No good Swedish brother would imply that I am an amateur. 
Was told that a Norwegian is a Swede without brains.


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## Drywall Tycoon

Was that a racist remark?


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## KingOfDrywall

In Regards to saving time
Let's take an average 400 sheet home.
On day 1: you can run all the angles with the tube, have your lessor skilled man mesh tape everything than run the flat box and bed coat all the seams and rub them down before you leave.
On Day 2: You can bed coat all the cornerbead,skim the angles, lightly sand (sanding is minimal since you polished them out the day before) than skim all the flats and butt joints with straght Plus 3.
On Day 3: Skim all the cornerbead---do your textures etc
Day 4....?? sand 
...............On this same project many guys just Tape eveything on day 1, on day 2 bed coat, on day 3 skim, on day 4 texture, on day 5 sand. Durabond when applied at the right time on a project can save you 1 day per 400 sheets. If you do even at minimal 30 homes a year ,your savings really add up.
This is just my opinion. I've never had a single complaint issue so it works for me.
To each his own I guess.


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## Whitey97

an average 400 sheet home. holy $hit batman. Ohio must be loaded! Obama must have already sent his stimulus package there!


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## silverstilts

well if you must know i am both , what let u to that conclusion , as far as my brain works well lets just say so far its been good not leading me to far astray maybe a little opinionated at times ... speaking of ethnic backgrounds my first wife was of German & Russian decent holy crap what attitude :furious: she had , whew done with that!!!!


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## silverstilts

I was just thinking that with all the polish folks in NE minneapolis you would be a little sympathetic ******


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## silverstilts

KingOfDrywall said:


> In Regards to saving time
> Let's take an average 400 sheet home.
> On day 1: you can run all the angles with the tube, have your lessor skilled man mesh tape everything than run the flat box and bed coat all the seams and rub them down before you leave.
> On Day 2: You can bed coat all the cornerbead,skim the angles, lightly sand (sanding is minimal since you polished them out the day before) than skim all the flats and butt joints with straght Plus 3.
> On Day 3: Skim all the cornerbead---do your textures etc
> Day 4....?? sand
> ...............On this same project many guys just Tape eveything on day 1, on day 2 bed coat, on day 3 skim, on day 4 texture, on day 5 sand. Durabond when applied at the right time on a project can save you 1 day per 400 sheets. If you do even at minimal 30 homes a year ,your savings really add up.
> This is just my opinion. I've never had a single complaint issue so it works for me.
> To each his own I guess.


How many guys are you talking about any way on a 400 sheet house ? I with 2 helpers can do a 300 sheeter in 4 days thats texture the ceilings and sand on the fourth day . plus clean up everything...... what is the condition of the job when you are done as far as being clean?? just curious..... and mine is not taped with mesh or quick set..


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## Whitey97

silverstilts said:


> I was just thinking that with all the polish folks in NE minneapolis you would be a little sympathetic ******


We gotta get together so I can buy you a beer, how about that?

but last time I was anywhere in Mpls, I don't remember seeing any polish folk... just the guys with really dark tans! hahahah


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## Drywall Tycoon

KingOfDrywall said:


> In Regards to saving time
> Let's take an average 400 sheet home.
> On day 1: you can run all the angles with the tube, have your lessor skilled man mesh tape everything than run the flat box and bed coat all the seams and rub them down before you leave.
> On Day 2: You can bed coat all the cornerbead,skim the angles, lightly sand (sanding is minimal since you polished them out the day before) than skim all the flats and butt joints with straght Plus 3.
> On Day 3: Skim all the cornerbead---do your textures etc
> Day 4....?? sand
> ...............On this same project many guys just Tape eveything on day 1, on day 2 bed coat, on day 3 skim, on day 4 texture, on day 5 sand. Durabond when applied at the right time on a project can save you 1 day per 400 sheets. If you do even at minimal 30 homes a year ,your savings really add up.
> This is just my opinion. I've never had a single complaint issue so it works for me.
> To each his own I guess.


Is that a level 1 finish? We tape everything with a tube using a.p. Box with a ten a.p. Second coat bead and box flats with topping. Skim flats down the centers, Three coat bead,butts and nails. Pole sand and painstakingly hand sand with a light. This takes a minimum of 5 long days 6 to be safe.

Everything is smooth here in the big cribs. The only places that texture are spec houses. ( which we no longer have, everyone is leaving Michigan)
or apartments. They have to go texture. You know who does all of them now.

Durabond for broken corners or deep bead.
No wonder I can't compete.:blink:


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## Timbrin Design

*Added Durabond Benifit*

One overlooked benifit of the durabond setting type compounds is the ability to go over the wall and joint system with plaster veneer products. This cannot be said with the all-purpose mud products. USG specifically recommends durabond for joints when using Imperial Veneer plaster. There are a scant few products which can bridge the interface properly between wallboard and plaster at the joints, but Durabond is one of them.


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## Durabond-Don

Drywall Tycoon said:


> Is that a level 1 finish? We tape everything with a tube using a.p. Box with a ten a.p. Second coat bead and box flats with topping. Skim flats down the centers, Three coat bead,butts and nails. Pole sand and painstakingly hand sand with a light. This takes a minimum of 5 long days 6 to be safe.
> 
> Everything is smooth here in the big cribs. The only places that texture are spec houses. ( which we no longer have, everyone is leaving Michigan)
> or apartments. They have to go texture. You know who does all of them now.
> 
> Durabond for broken corners or deep bead.
> No wonder I can't compete.:blink:


 
I do everything as you do. The only difference, is I do everything by hand. I learned from my father years ago, before there was any fancy time saving methods. I do admit I wish I knew how to use tools, as I would do side work if I did.


I care about quality and time. Durabond and fast setting mud do have it's place and good reasons to use it, at times. But I feel to use it for every coat leaves too much chance of problems. Especially if the taper is inexperienced, or dont know what he is doing.

1-2 extra days to do a better job, pays off in the long run. 

You describe your finishing perfectly. You are someone who cares about quality, as I do. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:


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## Frankawitz

Durabond has been my main product for 24 years now, I use this stuff to do base coat for Crown Moulding repairs, also use it for matching textures from the 1920's.


www.frankawitz.net


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## brian mulligan

Hi Drywall Solutions:

On the topic of Durabond I see very little value at all. To me the whole purpose of the first coat is to try to keep it as low as possible. The best way to do this is to use all purpose compound it shrinks and dries hard. What I've been doing if someone needs to get a job done quickly is use the Lafarge Rapid Coat for first coat and top it with all purpose as your second coat. The Lafarge Rapid Coat is basically prefixed durabond, it doesn't dry as quickly so if there are a number of corner beads it what help you out much. Your still sacrificing quality by not getting the shrinkage on the first coat as you would from all purpose. Hey I have a website, it's fairfieldcountydrywall.org, please anybody give me some honest feedback.

Brian


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## silverstilts

brian mulligan said:


> Hi Drywall Solutions:
> 
> On the topic of Durabond I see very little value at all. To me the whole purpose of the first coat is to try to keep it as low as possible. The best way to do this is to use all purpose compound it shrinks and dries hard. What I've been doing if someone needs to get a job done quickly is use the Lafarge Rapid Coat for first coat and top it with all purpose as your second coat. The Lafarge Rapid Coat is basically prefixed durabond, it doesn't dry as quickly so if there are a number of corner beads it what help you out much. Your still sacrificing quality by not getting the shrinkage on the first coat as you would from all purpose. Hey I have a website, it's fairfieldcountydrywall.org, please anybody give me some honest feedback.
> 
> Brian


 I have to agree and disagree .... I am not a fan of quick setting mud's only for repairs or very small projects and perhaps a big fill that may take days to dry with regular compound .... as far as the shrinkage part on first coat i disagree . It all depends on your wipe down quality . I myself like to see all the recess in the flats filled on wipe down without the humping of course , trying to leave it flat , the shrinkage is minimal with all purpose and makes your second coat much fuller and takes less time. By the time you do a third coat you should only have to skim out tight ( that is if the second coat is done right ) To me the perfect second coat is where you do not see the edges on the recess after it is dry... There is nothing worse than going to second coat and the first was wiped out with a six inch knife where an eight should have been used...


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## rockdaddy

Durabond 240 is ideal for the bed coat in all weather, which keeps the house on schedule plus it's an " upgraded product". Call it a green product if it sells. Drywall is the original green product.


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## Mudstar

Setting type durabond is not for drywall finishing. Its to hard and can't be sanded properly, it has no flexibility and does crack with movement. Besides this disadvantages the time savings you think you gained in drying time was lost with all the extra time mixing. Side by side methods to apply tape has really no advantages with this product, just disadvantages.


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## Drywall Tycoon

Thanks alot for the compliment. We don't get many in this business. By the way don. Bare minimum, get a corner box, head and a pump. They will pay for themselves quickly. You will enjoy the time savings.


Durabond-Don said:


> I do everything as you do. The only difference, is I do everything by hand. I learned from my father years ago, before there was any fancy time saving methods. I do admit I wish I knew how to use tools, as I would do side work if I did.
> 
> 
> I care about quality and time. Durabond and fast setting mud do have it's place and good reasons to use it, at times. But I feel to use it for every coat leaves too much chance of problems. Especially if the taper is inexperienced, or dont know what he is doing.
> 
> 1-2 extra days to do a better job, pays off in the long run.
> 
> You describe your finishing perfectly. You are someone who cares about quality, as I do. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:


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## Drywall Tycoon

*Plaster brown coat*

I plastered the Meijer Majestic Theatre in Grand Rapids. The project manager was a recycled USG rep. He made us use durabond and paper tape for joints and angles. I did not believe it. But in the USG plaster manual it specifies that durabond and paper tape are required to warranty the system.

Must be the old Bass terds that taught me how to plaster did not know what they were doing when they used fibre tape and diamond base. Bottom line. Diamond finish does not work as well over durabond as it does over diamond base. But you can't get covered by USG without it. CYA


Timbrin Design said:


> One overlooked benifit of the durabond setting type compounds is the ability to go over the wall and joint system with plaster veneer products. This cannot be said with the all-purpose mud products. USG specifically recommends durabond for joints when using Imperial Veneer plaster. There are a scant few products which can bridge the interface properly between wallboard and plaster at the joints, but Durabond is one of them.


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## alltex

We call it hot mud and it can be your best friend or your worst nightmare. last winter i used glas tape and hot mud on a duplex with poor heat ,it worked fine all flat looked good.About a week later right when the cabenets were going in you guest it a about a 15 ft. crack on a lid flat in the kitchen dining room area .be sides that kind of crap its WONDERFULL.


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## icerock drywall

I only use durabond 90 on my tape coat...but I use mesh tape.it dont crack with mesh .than push the durabond into the mesh with a mudtube and flush with a 2.5 flusher in the corners.


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## jmr

I use it for nothing more then packing tub stalls and prefill... regular mud ffor finishing. We used to use it for setting and coating bead but its to finiky and inconsistant.


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## DSJOHN

It,s great in the renovation industry,a bath, dining room ceiling , or hallway and 2 rooms. Why not tape out and coat it all in the same day? Ive done this for years and never once had a problem, paper tape---NOT MESH[hate it] . Lately Ive done some small jobs like this with Fiba-fuse,,no feed back yet only 6 months worth. Not sure why anyone would tape a single ceiling reno out and go home[travel 4 different times?]We all do things different tho!! I,m talking tape and coat once and some times 2nd coat same day ,but we all know that usually pits on us--I have found tho skim tight wait about 15 min then coat over the skim and it works fine.


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## icerock drywall

I only use durabond 90 on my tapecoat...mix with soap ...allway use clean water if you want it to dry in 90 mins ...if you mix with the clean up water 90 could turn into 45 an so on...like to coat around tubs with it and wipe it tight. if you time it right you can wash it smooth for your next coat.works good with mesh also it will not crack !


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## cazna

Oh No, Someone mentioned mesh tape and no cracking????


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## fenez

cazna said:


> Oh No, Someone mentioned mesh tape and no cracking????


if mesh tape is used properly it should not crack,


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## SlimPickins

fenez said:


> if mesh tape is used properly it *should* not crack,


Please note the use of the word "should". I see you did not use the word "will". I sense an underlying, perhaps subconscious distrust, or at the very least a lack of total confidence. 

I had to kick a wall right between the studs (and HARD) right at a mesh/hot mud joint to get it to hairline fracture.

Let the debate begin!:devil::tt2::laughing:


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## cazna

Let the debate begin!:devil::tt2::laughing:[/QUOTE]

Again.


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## 2buckcanuck

well,I guess there's those that call them selves tapers,and those that call them selves .........meshers
it's in the name:yes:


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## cazna

Im a rightious fibafusa now, which is a step up from a mesher and a taper IMO, Which means [email protected] all to everyone else, So :tongue: :jester:


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Im a rightious fibafusa now, which is a step up from a mesher and a taper IMO, Which means [email protected] all to everyone else, So :tongue: :jester:


grass hopper


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> well,I guess there's those that call them selves tapers,and those that call them selves .........meshers
> it's in the name:yes:


I'm a Drywall Technician. Doesn't that sound fancy?


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> grass hopper


Actually its Mr Legend, thank you :yes:

There was a T shirt getting around here a few years back and it had FIGJAM printed on it, Do you know what that means????

*F*,@#K *I*,m *G*,ood *J*,ust *A*,sk *M*,e....... FIGJAM, Whats your address Mudstar??? I will send one to you,

Actually one might look good on you too 2buck :thumbup::jester:


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## silverstilts

cazna said:


> Im a rightious fibafusa now, which is a step up from a mesher and a taper IMO, Which means [email protected] all to everyone else, So :tongue: :jester:


Take another step up and go to regular perfatape. I still don't understand the reasoning with the whole mesh crap. What do u have to gain as far as speed when you are doing a job over 150 sheets? Whats the point? Mesh go over with hot mud then coat again all in one day? How many man hours do you put in on a small job that size? Versus taping the conventional way? Does it justify having to clean all that corrosive mud off of everything? Does it justify having to go back and fix all the pin holes up? If you want all the headaches that go with mesh and hot mud go right ahead it's your time. I can see it on small repair jobs but not on anything that you can't possibly finish in one day to begin with , that is just stupidity. Then you have to make sure you have a good supply of fresh water which is a real pain to haul around if your jobs don't even have any on the sight, then the clean up you still have to make sure to dump all that slop out some where. Regular mud cuts down on all that extra work and much less the cleanup...


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## SlimPickins

cazna said:


> Actually its Mr Legend, thank you :yes:
> 
> There was a T shirt getting around here a few years back and it had FIGJAM printed on it, Do you know what that means????
> 
> *F*,@#K *I*,m *G*,ood *J*,ust *A*,sk *M*,e....... FIGJAM, Whats your address Mudstar??? I will send one to you,
> 
> Actually one might look good on you too 2buck :thumbup::jester:


You can mail me one too! I would forget the original meaning and just start thinking about fig jam on toast (No one has to ask me how good I am, they can just walk by and smell it in the air.)


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Actually its Mr Legend, thank you
> 
> There was a T shirt getting around here a few years back and it had FIGJAM printed on it, Do you know what that means????
> 
> *F*,@#K *I*,m *G*,ood *J*,ust *A*,sk *M*,e....... FIGJAM, Whats your address Mudstar??? I will send one to you,
> 
> Actually one might look good on you too 2buck :thumbup::jester:


some thing for free!!!!! sure !!!! when can you send it:yes:
the fiba fuse sounds ok,but it's the price that is not.people want the Cadillac at the price of a Russian lada .and the mesh vs.tape has become BORING ,more fun to pick on you cazna(gh) hows that sleep thing going with the new baby girl :whistling2::jester:


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## Kiwiman

I'm with you Caz...FIBAFUSE!!! The clients pay for it not you.:thumbup:


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## cazna

silverstilts said:


> Take another step up and go to regular perfatape. I still don't understand the reasoning with the whole mesh crap. What do u have to gain as far as speed when you are doing a job over 150 sheets? Whats the point? Mesh go over with hot mud then coat again all in one day? How many man hours do you put in on a small job that size? Versus taping the conventional way? Does it justify having to clean all that corrosive mud off of everything? Does it justify having to go back and fix all the pin holes up? If you want all the headaches that go with mesh and hot mud go right ahead it's your time. I can see it on small repair jobs but not on anything that you can't possibly finish in one day to begin with , that is just stupidity. Then you have to make sure you have a good supply of fresh water which is a real pain to haul around if your jobs don't even have any on the sight, then the clean up you still have to make sure to dump all that slop out some where. Regular mud cuts down on all that extra work and much less the cleanup...


Is this rant directed at me??? I like fibafuse as its stronger, sits better, and drys better than paper, Its not mesh??? I dont use mesh, Fuse works great with taping mud or all purpose which is what i use, I only use hot muds now for a patch up and fuse goes great for that as well, Have you even seen, tryed, or used fibafuse??? What Choo talking bout willis????? I agree with everything you state.

And the sleep is going crap 2buck 4 or 5 times a night wokin up, but i think im becoming less of a pussy and hardening up so im starting to get use to it, Apart from that its great, love being a dad, so looking forward to the years ahead, well till she reaches 13, then it will all turn to [email protected].


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## 2buckcanuck

no I don't think silverstilts was directing it at you cazna,he was talking mesh/hotmud meshers in general.and I totally agree with him too.It's like why do it that way when you don't half to


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> no I don't think silverstilts was directing it at you cazna,he was talking mesh/hotmud meshers in general.and I totally agree with him too.It's like why do it that way when you don't half to


But I thought you said the debate was boring?

I don't know anyone who glass tapes large jobs anyway. The only reasons I can see for that are;


you don't have automated tools
you need to skip a day because tapers are the magicians who make up for poor planning and execution of all previous deadlines.
Why are we still talking about mesh vs. paper vs. fibafuse? Does a painter use only one brush to paint a masterpiece? The real debate would lie more in _when _to use each for an application, and then people would actually learn something. I have yet to try fibafuse....I really want to, but I can't find it around here and I'm too lazy to use the internets for anything other typing bullsh!t.


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## carpentaper

get used to sleeping with ear plugs. they are a life saver. congratulations by the way. cazna has a little princess. mine has me wrapped around her finger.


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## silverstilts

You can use whatever you want Cazna, that is for you to decide. A while back there was a great debate on the cost of metal corner beads compared to paper-faced, Most all agreed that paper-face was far superior to metal and so much easier to install & finish. The point was most were using metal because of the cost factor even though they would prefer the paper-face. So this being said what is the cost of fibafuse compared to regular perfatape? And why is fibafuse stronger? What data or information do you have to support your facts? It hasn't been out long enough to support any long term comparisons as to it will hold up... Just because you may have used a product for a short time does not mean it is the best product out there.


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> I'm with you Caz...FIBAFUSE!!! The clients pay for it not you.:thumbup:


were all moving to where you live,sounds like you have no competition.being $20 bucks more than the the next guy can coat you the job


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## cazna

silverstilts said:


> You can use whatever you want Cazna, that is for you to decide. A while back there was a great debate on the cost of metal corner beads compared to paper-faced, Most all agreed that paper-face was far superior to metal and so much easier to install & finish. The point was most were using metal because of the cost factor even though they would prefer the paper-face. So this being said what is the cost of fibafuse compared to regular perfatape? And why is fibafuse stronger? What data or information do you have to support your facts? It hasn't been out long enough to support any long term comparisons as to it will hold up... Just because you may have used a product for a short time does not mean it is the best product out there.


So you say paperfaced trims are easier to install and finish than metal, which only cost little more, yet people would rather use a product thats harder and slower to use to save very little, Dosent anyone put a cost or value on there time????? is it really that worthless in you area?????? Thats amazing to me. Material cost is nothing for a drywaller, Painters have far greater costs than drywallers, its the labour thats the cost or were money and savings are made, so if a product costs a fraction more but is faster to use and makes life easier not harder then thats were the money is, Im not arguing with you silver, you know what you need to do to get by in your area and in just saying whats working for me were i am, which is worlds apart.

$20 more for me to fibafuse an average house which gives me better drying, easier to wipe, far stronger than paper, flatter and stronger butts/flats, is a non issue, Drywall materials are cheap as, trying to be cheap on that is just plain stupied, For me that is, Obviously not you???? I may as well drink 10 beers, climb to the top of a very windy hill and piss into the wind and wave it around like harry potters wand, thats how pointless trying to save $20 on material costs is.

I make up that cost on the time saved which can be takin off the price anyway if i want to be that cheap, so again, Nothing saved on being cheap for drywall materials, If thats what gets you off then good for you????


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## silverstilts

cazna said:


> So you say paperfaced trims are easier to install and finish than metal, which only cost little more, yet people would rather use a product thats harder and slower to use to save very little, Dosent anyone put a cost or value on there time????? is it really that worthless in you area?????? Thats amazing to me. Material cost is nothing for a drywaller, Painters have far greater costs than drywallers, its the labour thats the cost or were money and savings are made, so if a product costs a fraction more but is faster to use and makes life easier not harder then thats were the money is, Im not arguing with you silver, you know what you need to do to get by in your area and in just saying whats working for me were i am, which is worlds apart.
> 
> $20 more for me to fibafuse an average house which gives me better drying, easier to wipe, far stronger than paper, flatter and stronger butts/flats, is a non issue, Drywall materials are cheap as, trying to be cheap on that is just plain stupied, For me that is, Obviously not you???? I may as well drink 10 beers, climb to the top of a very windy hill and piss into the wind and wave it around like harry potters wand, thats how pointless trying to save $20 on material costs is.
> 
> I make up that cost on the time saved which can be takin off the price anyway if i want to be that cheap, so again, Nothing saved on being cheap for drywall materials, If thats what gets you off then good for you????


I agree with you should not go cheap. I do not use metal myself but prior posts had many using it because of the cost. If it works I use it. Time is money I have always believed that, however my point with fibafuse is what do you support your point that it is better... on what basis? It hasn't been around long enough .. I not saying it is an inferior product but still wanting to know where you are coming from on this stand... It is like asking a person why they believe in something and all they can say is (Because) or (that is what i believe), with nothing to back their words.. don't make sense to me and it certainly doesn't answer any questions but rather avoids them... as far as putting a cost on labor here and materials I know many are struggling for many reasons, yet there are also many that seem to not have to struggle as much.. competition no matter where you live will dictate to an extent what your labor is worth no matter how great you are at doing your job or how fast, there are others out there and always will that will continually try to drive down a decent living just to make a buck, then there are those out there that take advantage of it. You got to be balanced not to high and not to low...


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## cazna

Here you go silver http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-thoughts-views-1175/

Have a read through this thread at my findings, Go to page 4 and read my 4th post down, the one about me trying to remove some taped board, I have tested it myself many ways and im convinced its a step up and far greater than paper ever can be, I did a new home were the ceiling board ran the same way as the battons, builders cock up, anyway they didnt leave much lip for the sheet to screw to, I plastered it with paper and when the painters painted it i noticed a hairline crack 4m long right in the main living area, so what could i do??? I couldnt back block it, paper tape it a waste of time?? So i fibafused it over the paint plastered it out sanded it down and the painters repainted.......... and 8 months later even through a quake and this crack was directly above a fire as well and it still has not come through the fuse, I think it actually has the ability to bridge a hairline crack and it doesnt come trough the fuse, Read that link as well silver, its all more than enough proof for me that its better and easier than paper.


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## carpentaper

i used it on one job. i was skeptical when i looked at it just dry on the roll. but after i saw it on the wall the next day and i could see how the mud and fibers interweave and bond to the wall i got a gut feeling that this stuff is at least as strong as paper. time will tell and i only have mine and others on here opinions to go off of but i think the stuff is a good product. haven't tried it in a while though.


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## silverstilts

cazna said:


> Here you go silver http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-thoughts-views-1175/
> 
> Have a read through this thread at my findings, Go to page 4 and read my 4th post down, the one about me trying to remove some taped board, I have tested it myself many ways and im convinced its a step up and far greater than paper ever can be, I did a new home were the ceiling board ran the same way as the battons, builders cock up, anyway they didnt leave much lip for the sheet to screw to, I plastered it with paper and when the painters painted it i noticed a hairline crack 4m long right in the main living area, so what could i do??? I couldnt back block it, paper tape it a waste of time?? So i fibafused it over the paint plastered it out sanded it down and the painters repainted.......... and 8 months later even through a quake and this crack was directly above a fire as well and it still has not come through the fuse, I think it actually has the ability to bridge a hairline crack and it doesnt come trough the fuse, Read that link as well silver, its all more than enough proof for me that its better and easier than paper.


Well I re-read all the hype again still not convinced.... Like I said if you want to use it go ahead your jobs your reputation... Still no evidence how it will hold up long term and also like mesh you still will have problems in the angles and running through the bazooka. Everyone is always looking for an easy solution for taping changing to fibafuse there isn't really any.. you still have the same process to get to where you are going only more costly. It sure won't save you anytime that is for sure.


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## cazna

silverstilts said:


> Well I re-read all the hype again still not convinced.... Like I said if you want to use it go ahead your jobs your reputation... Still no evidence how it will hold up long term and also like mesh you still will have problems in the angles and running through the bazooka. Everyone is always looking for an easy solution for taping changing to fibafuse there isn't really any.. you still have the same process to get to where you are going only more costly. It sure won't save you anytime that is for sure.


 
Fair enough silver, your choice, and im only using it for flats, still on paper for the corners, But i do suggest you do not turn a blind eye and dont even try it as some other members on DWT have, All you need to do is PM tom, His user name is fibafuse and he will send you a free roll, Go ahead, get it and test it yourself, tape up some offcuts with fuse and paper and then pull it apart yourself and see how it feels, Just trying to lead a horse to water, Your choice if you drink or not, All the best Hi Ho Silver :thumbsup:

Another great thing with the fuse is it dosent absorb water like paper, so the tapes dont expand and wrinkle up so much and 1st coat is much more level without peaks or sunkin spots.


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## JustMe

silverstilts said:


> It sure won't save you anytime that is for sure.


I'm thinking that one is situation dependent. They've sent me on a # of smaller jobs and troubleshooting jobs the last while. Fibafuse allows me to tape and 1st coat out on the same trip without having to deal so much with the center of the tape pulling in after at times, like paper likes to do. It also dries quicker behind the Fiba, which means I don't have to wonder so much if its dried through underneath on 'get it done quick' jobs. But maybe Rebel's new 120 minute Vario can mean that won't matter so much.

And now that exterior walls can be colder around here, I like the faster/better drying.
But I don't use it in corners, either, unless drying time is a real issue. 



silverstilts said:


> Still no evidence how it will hold up long term......... Everyone is always looking for an easy solution for taping changing to fibafuse there isn't really any


How will it be long term? Valid point, I'm thinking. Do we trust that the manufacturer's testing proved that well enough?

As for easy taping (and coating) solutions, I'm counting mostly on Rick's Stinger system right now. If it's "insane" as he says, I'm ready for the fun.

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## icerock drywall

rockdaddy said:


> Durabond 240 is ideal for the bed coat in all weather, which keeps the house on schedule plus it's an " upgraded product". Call it a green product if it sells. Drywall is the original green product.


 durabond 90 is just right any slower you could not 2nd coat


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## Capt-sheetrock

icerock drywall said:


> durabond 90 is just right any slower you could not 2nd coat


 Have you given any thought to the fact that dura-bond just "sets" faster. It don't "dry" any faster than AP


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## rebel20

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Have you given any thought to the fact that dura-bond just "sets" faster. It don't "dry" any faster than AP


Capt,
I guess thats why they call them fast setting compounds.
Whatcha think.:whistling2:


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Have you given any thought to the fact that dura-bond just "sets" faster. It don't "dry" any faster than AP


amen. it still has to cure.


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