# Angle Box vs Mudrunner



## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

I am an angle box user and looking to upgrade to a mudrunner.Seen few videos and looked for specs but apart of that I never hold one or know someone who has got one.

Anyone out there who's used both of these tools and can give some reviews on them ( which one is better, easier and faster to use, pros and cons for both of them and tips) ? :thumbsup:


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

keke said:


> I am an angle box user and looking to upgrade to a mudrunner.Seen few videos and looked for specs but apart of that I never hold one or know someone who has got one.
> 
> Anyone out there who's used both of these tools and can give some reviews on them ( which one is better, easier and faster to use, pros and cons for both of them and tips) ? :thumbsup:


I've been using the MR for roughly a decade now. It's so easy once you get the hang of it.:thumbup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I am interested to see the replies as well.


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I am interested to see the replies as well.


It's basically consistency of mud, amount of flow combined with pace. What I like, is that you can go from one point to the other in one movement. Release the flow just before you get to the intersecting corner.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Square Foot said:


> It's basically consistency of mud, amount of flow combined with pace. What I like, is that you can go from one point to the other in one movement. Release the flow just before you get to the intersecting corner.


Hmm...Worth looking into..it's not the first time I've thought of purchasing one.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

I've run both i think im faster with the cornerbox but your working harder for it. Im looking for another mudrunner its a little easier on the body and you can run a 4" angled on it which won't work on a cornerbox.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Everyones different, I started with a goldblatt cornerbox and a 3.75 goldblatt head that was to big for the box, It or i couldnt feed enough mud to the corners so i struggled, Then tryed some cp tubes, Better but it or i was still an arse with it so i got a mudrunner, It took some trial and error to get the mud and heads right but now its easy, Much easier with the runner, But, Maybe if i got a better columbia anglebox at the start it may have been better, Im stoked with the runner now though, And i can use 4 inch heads which i like.

Read this thread and see the clips.

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/mud-runner-video-2565/


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

sdrdrywall said:


> I've run both i think im faster with the cornerbox but your working harder for it. Im looking for another mudrunner its a little easier on the body and you can run a 4" angled on it which won't work on a cornerbox.


Ya, I'm the same way. I find you have to work hard running the angle box. It's the only tool that makes me sweat.
I don't mind the work out, but I see it getting hard on the body down the road.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya, I'm the same way. I find you have to work hard running the angle box. It's the only tool that makes me sweat.
> I don't mind the work out, but I see it getting hard on the body down the road.


Used to be no problem now at 40 and a double hernia not so easy anymore but still love it :jester:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

sdrdrywall said:


> Used to be no problem now at 40 and a double hernia not so easy anymore but still love it :jester:


:blink: I bet...


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

Like Cazna, I use the 4" Tape Worm with the runner and it's a sweet combo. 

I paid almost $1,100.00 for my runner back when I bought it... so the going price, combined with the Allwall and or Wall tools discount, is a pretty darn good deal.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

I have never used a mudrunner but from what I hear is they are easier. I like the box


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

Injuries? aches and pains?...

Young and invincible always makes way for old and broke down. We just speed it up from the norm.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

ok this is my picture so far:

-angle box is faster but you run thinner mud so you have to pass twice(that's what I do)
-mudrunner is slower but you use thicker mud so you pass once only 

conclusion:time would be similar

regarding quality 

does the job looks better at the end using thicker mud?


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

cazna said:


> Read this thread and see the clips.
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/mud-runner-video-2565/


I saw your video and photos cazna.the job looks nice.do you hide the paper from the first pass?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I have never used an angle box. I tried the angle heads on a C/T without success. Used them on the Apla-Tech with reasonable results. (with more practice it would be awesome)
I LOVE THE MUDRUNNER. It is that easy it is fun.





http://youtu.be/eZLhBaa-fxM


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

keke said:


> I saw your video and photos cazna.the job looks nice.do you hide the paper from the first pass?


Hi keke, Yes the first pass/coat and tapeworm 4 covers the paper, Sometimes it takes a couple of passes. I guess the mud is thicker than anglebox mud, But only just, The runner wont push thick mud, It just stalls, It still needs to be thin, And what would you rather do, Grunt on an angle box several times, or just cruise it with a runner. But some people like the box, Just depends who you are.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> I have never used an angle box. I tried the angle heads on a C/T without success. Used them on the Apla-Tech with reasonable results. (with more practice it would be awesome)
> I LOVE THE MUDRUNNER. It is that easy it is fun.
> Using a Tapetech mudrunner to top angles. - YouTube


I've seen your video(and cazna's) many times.you two are pushing  me to switch to a mudrunner


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

cazna said:


> And what would you rather do, Grunt on an angle box several times, or just cruise it with a runner. But some people like the box, Just depends who you are.


I don't mind grunting on a box several times nor cruising with the runner. what i'm looking for is the best possible quality at the end


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

keke said:


> I don't mind grunting on a box several times nor cruising with the runner. what i'm looking for is the best possible quality at the end


Someone may correct me but I dont think there should be a difference in quality of the finish. The angle head is the tool that does the finishing the runner or the box just delivers the mud. The runner in my experience does a great job of that. And judging by the amount of blokes that use the angle box so does it. So I guess it comes down to what you want to use and what you are comfortable with.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> Someone may correct me but I dont think there should be a difference in quality of the finish. The angle head is the tool that does the finishing the runner or the box just delivers the mud. The runner in my experience does a great job of that. And judging by the amount of blokes that use the angle box so does it. So I guess it comes down to what you want to use and what you are comfortable with.


I agree with Gazman. There shouldn't be any difference in the quality of finish what so ever.
Just ease of use.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> Someone may correct me but I dont think there should be a difference in quality of the finish. The angle head is the tool that does the finishing the runner or the box just delivers the mud. The runner in my experience does a great job of that. And judging by the amount of blokes that use the angle box so does it. So I guess it comes down to what you want to use and what you are comfortable with.


From what I've seen mudrunner covers better the paper(4"vs3" and thicker vs thinner mud), that means less problems when sanding (sometimes after sanding the paper is visible so I have to go back and patch)

This is my only complaint about the box and that's way I look to change

Can I avoid this problem with the mudrunner?

What do you think?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Coverage sound more like an angle head adjustment issue more that an angle box problem. Remember your mud has to be fairly runny with the mudrunner.


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

gazman said:


> Coverage sound more like an angle head adjustment issue more that an angle box problem. Remember your mud has to be fairly runny with the mudrunner.


The thing is, the runner requires less pressure allowing you to be able to float the corner better. I don't remember getting these results with the box.


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## Tucker (Feb 2, 2012)

One good thing about the apla tech tools. The air tube with the angle head. I can use 4" angle head with thicker muds and run if i like..its all pressure and timing.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I agree with Gazman. There shouldn't be any difference in the quality of finish what so ever.
> Just ease of use.


Well i disagree, Shoving and scraping an angle box into a corner trying to force out mud is a big difference than having a tool that can shove mud into a corner for you while you lightly glide it along, I sucked at the anglebox and got a cheap one but the quaility difference was huge for me, Much fuller, even, smooth, pok and scratch free corners, The runner can fill screw holes and uneven tapes better, Fill tapered edges better, (But i tend to pre fill), Its allowed me to go tapeworm 4 behind the corner roller then finish with a smaller head (Which is so fast and easy its cheating), I couldnt do any of that with a box, We are all different and some people do just fine with a box but thats how it was for me, I wouldnt go back.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> Someone may correct me but I dont think there should be a difference in quality of the finish. The angle head is the tool that does the finishing the runner or the box just delivers the mud. The runner in my experience does a great job of that. And judging by the amount of blokes that use the angle box so does it. So I guess it comes down to what you want to use and what you are comfortable with.


It's debatable???
I always use to use the angle box, So having a compound tube also, we would try putting the angle head on the cp tube,(direct flushing). You would think they both did the same job, yet they didn't. The angle box applied the mud tight, well the direct flushing with the cp tube loaded the angle heavy. Plus if I remember right, the mud had to be stiff to work with the cp tube. The finish was inferior with direct flushing with the cp tube, tons of pin holes, took forever to dry, weather testing a mechanical head, or a tin head, which is odd in regards to the tin heads.

Yet if you in-direct flushed with the cp tube (apply with applicator on cp tube, then wipe with angle head on a pole) you got the same desired results as a angle box. Or maybe 85% the same as the angle box, it added a wee bit more mud, but compared to the direct flushing/glazing, it was minimal. It's one reason I never bought into the mud runner, I assumed without running one, it would run more like a direct flushing system like the cp tube, and would perform better with a bigger to smaller head system. PA rocker is one of the few who owns a mud runner and a angle box, he should be able to answer this question.

And in defense of my in-direct flushing/glazing. It is something for the older bucks to think about. You wont find yourself driving into work thinking"Oh chit, I got to run the angle box today,,pain pain pain:blink:" It takes more time, but not that much more. Where you gain in time is in closets and doing high stuff, you don't bust your balls. Best of all there is no pain!!!!! the mud is runny so it applies with ease, and it's no different from wiping your angle tapes(internals) on the install, no pain lots of gain



PrecisionTaping said:


> I agree with Gazman. There shouldn't be any difference in the quality of finish what so ever.
> Just ease of use.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Well i disagree, Shoving and scraping an angle box into a corner trying to force out mud is a big difference than having a tool that can shove mud into a corner for you while you lightly glide it along, I sucked at the anglebox and got a cheap one but the quaility difference was huge for me, Much fuller, even, smooth, pok and scratch free corners, The runner can fill screw holes and uneven tapes better, Fill tapered edges better, (But i tend to pre fill), Its allowed me to go tapeworm 4 behind the corner roller then finish with a smaller head (Which is so fast and easy its cheating), I couldnt do any of that with a box, We are all different and some people do just fine with a box but thats how it was for me, I wouldnt go back.


Thanks for filling in for me "Cazna the wise" Guess we were both typing at the same time.....

Two more days of







with Moose boy, then it's back to normal


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Just had a thought, If know one has ever used a runner then you may not realise the mudflow control is varable, Like some battery drills, Squeeze the trigger a little the drill goes slow, Squeeze it more and it speeds up, Thats how a runner works with the twisting handle., Its NOTHING like direct flushing on a cp with an anglehead AT ALL. Its got amazing control, Add and little or more as you need to suit what you need, You cant do that with a box, Its shove and hope, Well it was for me.


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

keke said:


> From what I've seen mudrunner covers better the paper(4"vs3" and thicker vs thinner mud), that means less problems when sanding (sometimes after sanding the paper is visible so I have to go back and patch)
> 
> This is my only complaint about the box and that's way I look to change
> 
> ...


I recently had this problem for a couple houses, it was my 2.5. When you flush your tape it's not leaving a sufficient coat. So when you finish your angles you get bare tapes. File or change your blades


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

here's what happened to me last week.Check out this photo I took with my phone 

This is not quite 100% quality work and the foreman and architect are very fussy and check everything with 500 W lamp , specially on internals 

DLSdrywall I always file the blades ( might be time to change them)but even though I haven't use a mudrunner think that cazna explained it very clearly to me in # 26, #29 how this tool works. 
And reckon the quality is a bit better ( probably I won't get bare paper after using the mudrunner)


Thanks for all you posts guys.........now looking for a deal .....and some tips on how to use it - cazna think it's time to start a new thread 
"Cazna gives mudrunner lessons " for all the beginners like me to learn


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Theres really not much to tell keke, Im hardy an expert, Plenty of guys get more practice than me with the tools, Just get one, Fill it with anglebox mud and go for it, Once you done a few runs you will be off and wont look back :thumbsup:


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

cazna said:


> Well i disagree, Shoving and scraping an angle box into a corner trying to force out mud is a big difference than having a tool that can shove mud into a corner for you while you lightly glide it along, I sucked at the anglebox and got a cheap one but the quaility difference was huge for me, Much fuller, even, smooth, pok and scratch free corners, The runner can fill screw holes and uneven tapes better, Fill tapered edges better, (But i tend to pre fill), Its allowed me to go tapeworm 4 behind the corner roller then finish with a smaller head (Which is so fast and easy its cheating), I couldnt do any of that with a box, We are all different and some people do just fine with a box but thats how it was for me, I wouldnt go back.


 i can relate to what you're saying in regard to a prefill.when they began encreasing the width and depth of the bevelsabout 12 or 13 yrs. ago,i had to make changes to my methods.the 3" tin no longer filled the bevel during taping.i started hand filling the top sheet bevel after running tapes ,this allowed me to continue running my 2.5 anglehead on my finish.i did'nt think there'd be enough mud running the zook to fill the angle with a 4" after rolling the tape.it's surprising how much more material it takes to fill that bevel.on a house with roughly 6ooo sq ft. of drywall i'll hand load almost a full box of mud and blow an extra 2 hrs. gettiner done.:furious:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Thats what i have found bmitch, Sometimes i get bevel on both the top wall and the ceiling sheet, So a double taper and even a big gap in the top corners, Its a bit much so i pre fill em both, then they are level and dont give me hassels when taping and running the heads, Im bringing out the corner point to where it should be not trying to bury back in. Most guys prob dont, But im a bit over fussy, I know that, But, at the end of the day with my market thats whats keeping me employed.

Im on a prefill kick at the moment, I use to just do the big gaps, After 2buck mentioned it and i finally tryed it im getting use to it, It still seems crazy doing all that (Screws, Flats, everything) But the next coats are so much easier and need less mud, And dry times, And coats. At the end its all really level, dry and full, Super flat tapes, Hell, i may even stop using hotmud for taping and go back to air dry and zooka again, I was having delayed shrinkage problems. The edges of our board seem to be getting rounder edges, The 13mm ceiling sheets can have quite a centre gap now and with no prefill with air dry you seem to always get that centre shrink line, Then your trying to sand it out or it shows up months down the track. My humid climate is part of that problem, Bit slower drying for me.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

the rounded edges are an issue i have with certainteed drywall.if i don't prefill those i'm going to have problems.i should be charging more money for any job done with certaint. then maybe they'll get the idea.


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## getplastered (Jan 3, 2012)

Sh!t....here I was thinking I was doin something wrong with my corner box...always a struggle on angle day. If the corners aren't square good luck...I'm always cleaning the angle by hand after I run it.

I see exposed tape quite often too....that will happen cause you thin down the mud so much to make it easier to apply with the box.

I know what I can get away with, and my painter is pretty good...he loads those corners a little heavier on the primer. As long as theres no line or ridge I can usually let it slide.

That mud runner looks nice to use....lucky Aussies, no top angles...


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## machinemud (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok , there is a little trick for those that have problem with anglebox , palmolive dish liquid ( the green one ) the mud slide easier on the wall. Simply mix your mud for angle as usual then add 1/4 of the bottle and mix again for a minutes . 


On top of that your wall will smell good ! 

What i found easier with anglebox is flush with a 3' anglehead and go lower with a 2,5 for the final pass . 

Good luck boys , i guaranteed you it will help


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Haha I always put some palmolive in with my mud when I use my boxes. Sometimes I will put it in mud just to hand finish. The mud runs smoother and reduces pin holes. I did find out that it tends to "break down" the mud if you let the mix sit in a bucket that is in the sunlight. I mixed up a bucket with just a splash of water and some palmolive and it was nice and thick but after a few days in the sunlight the mix turned to soup. This happened twice to me so I'm certain it was the soap that did it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

or ..add 1 small scoop of soft mud.L/W to your a/p mud.
It will reduce the pocs a bit. Hides the tape too..easy to sand also.

I wont add soap to my mud! don't ask me why..I have no good reason not too...It just seems wrong! 

mixing compounds or adding glue I can see it... but putting dish washing liqiud in my mud I won't do.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> or ..add 1 small scoop of soft mud.L/W to your a/p mud.
> It will reduce the pocs a bit. Hides the tape too..easy to sand also.
> 
> I wont add soap to my mud! don't ask me why..I have no good reason not too...It just seems wrong!
> ...


I feel the same way. :yes:


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

i had always understood that soap was already a ingredient in the mud mix.i know pt doe'nt need to add soap to machine mud. i wish all mud products slicked in so well.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

b said:


> i had always understood that soap was already a ingredient in the mud mix.i know pt doe'nt need to add soap to machine mud. i wish all mud products slicked in so well.


What was that B,Mitch? Can you repeat that so 2buck can hear you? :whistling2:
Yes, that's right 2buck! Machine Mud!  Great mud!


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

i had always understood that soap was already a ingredient in the mud mix.i went for a tour through certainteed mud plant about 5yrs. ago,while i was there i asked about it .i did,nt get a reply on yae or nay.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

hey look ,it actually posted.i posted and went on to something else,when i came back it still was'nt up so i posted again.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

thats to weird.while i'm rewriting my post you write a line like that


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

b said:


> thats to weird.while i'm rewriting my post you write a line like that


Hahaha! Ya, but you didn't repeat the essential part. lol.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

somethings not rightat my end with the wireless.the truth is pt,i have'nt used machine mud since about last feb.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

wheres the soap? 


PS..I dropped my camera in a bucket of clean-up water while 
taking this pic...That's 3 in 1 year! 

New camera tomorrow....SHH!!! Don't tell the whif!!!:whistling2:


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

Just try it moore. You didn't use boxes before either. But you love them now just don't use a ton of it. It'll burn the chit out of your eyes when you sand:jester:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

machinemud said:


> Ok , there is a little trick for those that have problem with anglebox , palmolive dish liquid ( the green one ) the mud slide easier on the wall. Simply mix your mud for angle as usual then add 1/4 of the bottle and mix again for a minutes .
> 
> 
> On top of that your wall will smell good !
> ...


A 1/4 of a bottle to a bucket







, your going to die Machine









Palmolive contains SD Alcohol 3A, which is a grain alcohol and considered potentially toxic. According to "A Relational Database of Hazardous Chemicals and Occupational Diseases" (see References) there is some limited evidence that SD Alcohol 3A can cause cancer.
Also found in Palmolive dish soap is sodium xylenol sulfonate, which is commonly found in types of household soaps and cleaners. This chemical is thought to be carcinogenic, as well as anionic and monionic and can cause irritation of the eyes or skin, diarrhea, vomiting, and even contact dermatitis.
Triclosan is also thought to be carcinogenic, and may contain dioxins as runoff from the manufacturing process.
It is thought that when triclosan is mixed with chlorine in tap water, it produces chloroform, which is a carcinogen.

The main thing I heard was over time the soap, will dis-colour the paint. I had a DWC flip on me once many moons ago. Most tapers were on a Sun Light soap kick. He said if a wall was white, the joints would bleed through with a yellow tinge, When the sun light shined on the Sun Light soap:whistling2:. Wanting to keep my job, I stopped using it. 

But when I did use it, I learned you only needed a teaspoon or so,, not a ton. I would be looking at a baby type shampoo maybe. Something that creates a lot of suds, without all the cleaning agents mixed in. I get why guys want to use it, for the same reasons I did I guess. But I will go with what Moore said, just a few scoops of topping mud tossed in with your AP mud, or just using topping mud, is all you need...... but to each his own

​


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

b said:


> somethings not rightat my end with the wireless.the truth is pt,i have'nt used machine mud since about last feb.


Nah ha Moose boy, bernie stopped using your Machine mud









Machine mud-


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## ns005 (Dec 23, 2010)

Idk why anyone would take their soap to work. How will your wife do all the dirty dishes?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> A 1/4 of a bottle to a bucket
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Grain alcohol toxic???? Never lol. Guess I gotta stop drinking moonshine and everclear


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> wheres the soap?
> 
> 
> PS..I dropped my camera in a bucket of clean-up water while
> ...


http://www.henrys.com/66143-NIKON-COOLPIX-AW100-BLUE-16MP-5X-WIDE-ANGLE-3-WP.aspx :whistling2:
Waterproof:thumbsup:


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> http://www.henrys.com/66143-NIKON-COOLPIX-AW100-BLUE-16MP-5X-WIDE-ANGLE-3-WP.aspx :whistling2:
> Waterproof:thumbsup:


 
I use a coolpix for my videos now, however it isn't waterproof.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

thefinisher said:


> I use a coolpix for my videos now, however it isn't waterproof.


Must be a different model..


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