# screw gun vs automatic screw gun



## 2buckcanuck

OK, here we go, I had 2 of our rocker crews visit this site, (now their calling me 2buck :furious
They seen a lot of the rockers on here talking about the auto feed screw guns, they were like "no way!!!! not cost effective". I would say their biggest beef is that the auto screws are twice the price of a regular box of screws. So to them that gun would have to be 3 to 4 times faster , than by hand. One said he could be faster than the auto gun :blink:, the other said they would jam too much.
so what are your opinions, pro's and cons, let the arguments !!!!!! I mean debate begin


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## raven

the hilti auto-feed will end up being the winner. If you buy your ammo from the right dealer the difference is way worth it. if you want more of a challenge put the single shot barrle on. rather prove than argue.


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## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> OK, here we go, I had 2 of our rocker crews visit this site, (now their calling me 2buck :furious
> They seen a lot of the rockers on here talking about the auto feed screw guns, they were like "no way!!!! not cost effective". I would say their biggest beef is that the auto screws are twice the price of a regular box of screws. So to them that gun would have to be 3 to 4 times faster , than by hand. One said he could be faster than the auto gun :blink:, the other said they would jam too much.
> so what are your opinions, pro's and cons, let the arguments !!!!!! I mean debate begin


I use hilti autofeeders I love them....but hand feed also has its place.so do nails.when your hanging lids you cant beat autofeeders..I can run them efforticly.but I have lots of practice on them.lots.lots.lots.now some of my guys cant fully grasp how they work.you know not setting them in.setting them to deep..that reminds me of 2 guys tomorrow morning whos day is not gonna start real well after I have my morning talk with them..over setting and not setting screws and nail..anyways I have yet to show someone how to run a autofeeder that did not like its better than hand feeding...now i have a few cordless senco autofeeders that the head stays on non removible they suck they stay in the shop.....hilti all the way....my vote is auto.......but I still nail and hand feed aswe


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## smisner50s

Hey buck what do you prefer


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## 2buckcanuck

I have never tried them, I full time tape now, But if I did rock I personally would check them out. Should also add our rockers nail the perimeters. So I'm looking for ammo to explain why they should get one. Or tell them they were right. plus this thread my help those debating if they should get one.
The one crew would try it if the screws weren't so high in price,(a young crew) but they were hhhhhmmmmmm to put that type of cash out. The older crew was "no way would they get one" surprise surprise eh'


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## Checkers

I will bet anyone, f#cking anyone, ANYONE, that I can blow the effing pants off of them with my corded Senco Strip Gun. I'm not young and dumb, I learned to hang behind a semi-fast hanger and I will put my money where my mouth is any day because I am confident that strip guns are superior tools for our trade.

I will admit that an auto feed gun may have a kink from time to time, but so does your average gun. I will share my knowledge and post photos of my gun with all of the necessary modifications that need to be done to it in order to make it lightning fast if anyone is interested. 

The biggest problems they have are, occasionally the feeding mechanism will stick, and occasionally you cannot get far enough into an angle to screw off if the stud is skinny. Those are the only two things after you get over the initial learning curve and make the correct modifications.

The biggest advantage beside speed is there is less strain on your body in every way. Hanging lids is a breeze, hanging wall sheets by yourself is cake, and screwing off bottoms is so effing easy, 2Buck's fat arse wouldn't even work up a sweat doing it.

For the record I run Senco, Tyrex, and Hilti strips through my gun without any issues. However, given the choice I will run Hilti screws.

Screw prices direct from our local supplier are as follows around here:
8000 Loose 1-1/4", $43.00 @ $0.005375/Screw
4000 Tyrex Strips 1-1/4". $55.00 @ $0.01375/Screw
That is a $0.008375 difference per screw.
So yes, screws are usually about twice the price.

There are approximately 50 screws in each sheet.
_*$0.26875/sheet for loose.
$0.6875/sheet for strip.
$21.50/80 sheets for loose.
$55.00/80 sheets for strip.

$33.50/day more in screws for strips.
*_

Here is how you get around the price. 
(This is for example only.)

*Harvey Wallbanger hangs 10 sheets an hour by himself.* This provides us an average of 6 minutes to measure, cut, carry, hang, and screw off each sheet.
_*60 min / 10 sheets = 6 minutes, per sheet.*_
We can break it down this way:
<30 seconds to measure. <30 seconds to cut. <30 seconds to carry. <60 seconds to hang. <30 seconds to router. <3 minutes to screw off.
*8 hour day yields 80 sheets @ 480 minutes.*
So let's assume Harvey spends 3.5 hours a day screwing off, conservatively.
_*That's 2.625 minutes per sheet screwing off.*_
Screwing off with a strip gun is easily twice, if not three times faster. So let's assume 1 minute per sheet.
That takes your screwing off time down to 80 minutes for the day.
Conservatively let's assume 4 minutes per sheet cutting and hanging.
_*480 minutes in a day - 320 cutting and hanging - 80 screwing off = 400 minutes.*_
At this rate you would have to hang for an extra 22 minutes and put up 3.6 extra sheets a day to pay for your badass strip screws. But wait, even working 422 minutes a day you will be getting off an hour earlier and have made the same amount as if you had hung at the same pace with a loose gun!

*What would you do with an extra 60 minutes a day? Go home an hour early? Stick around and hang 6 more sheets with your badass screw gun?
* 
I hope I rest my case!


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## 2buckcanuck

Checkers called me fat























:ban:checkers :whistling2:


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## Checkers

I finished up my post 2buck!


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## p.e.trapp

for chekers
do you a pics or name for automatic drywall srcew and how much prices
thank s

p.e.


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## SlimPickins

p.e.trapp said:


> for chekers
> do you a pics or name for automatic drywall srcew and how much prices
> thank s
> 
> p.e.


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## moore

I have a senco strip gun[ cordless] don't do alot of hanging.
it is fast ,and the strip would jam / screws flip if i got in TOO big a hurry.
once i found my pace with it , had no problems. easy on the fingers too,
no digging in the screw pouch . dimples aren't as bad , compared to standard screw gun. i hate those dimples . 12 volt.. heavy at the end of the day.


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## DSJOHN

I use both--auto on ceilings is kind of a must and I use reg gun on wall hanging,,but we hang the whole house then go back and screw the field off on the walls with auto ,its faster!!!!


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## moore

DSJOHN said:


> I use both--auto on ceilings is kind of a must and I use reg gun on wall hanging,,but we hang the whole house then go back and screw the field off on the walls with auto ,its faster!!!!


do you glue?


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## 2buckcanuck

p.e.trapp said:


> for chekers
> do you a pics or name for automatic drywall srcew and how much prices
> thank s
> 
> p.e.


I will translate for pe, I'm guessing he's french since he is from Montreal.
He wants a link for your gun checkers.

And pe trapp, the habs suck :furious:


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## DSJOHN

moore said:


> do you glue?


Most of our jobs here have poly---we cant glue to poly-- when its spray foam ,yes!!!


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## DSJOHN

2buckcanuck said:


> I will translate for pe, I'm guessing he's french since he is from Montreal.
> He wants a link for your gun checkers.
> 
> And pe trapp, the habs suck :furious:


Thats what I think of the Habs and their stupid fans!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

Checkers said:


> I finished up my post 2buck!


good post checkers, so good that no one else will comment on this thread 
I think our rockers may be a bunch of pre madonna's , Ive showed them and let them try my cordless de walt drywall guns and router. They were like naw. I think their afraid of new technology or something. My main point to them was it's CORDLESS !!!!!!!! Then it auto feeds !!!! Bonus !!!!!!

My main worry if I were still rocking would be the RPM's,durability and if it jammed alot , no one would half to sell me on the concept of the gun. But it's a lot better if their tried and tested by someone else.

And in case any of the rockers from my company are reading this " You guys do great work" :thumbup: 

Protecting myself, Most of them are bigger than me:whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> good post checkers, so good that no one else will comment on this thread
> 
> 
> My main worry if I were still rocking would be the RPM's,durability and if it jammed alot , no one would half to sell me on the concept of the gun. But it's a lot better if their tried and tested by someone else.


I agree, good post by Checkers:thumbsup:

As for the main worry part...for me it's more about money. More expensive gun, more expensive screws. I spend all of my tool money on tools I don't already have, rather than upgraded versions of tools I already own. For instance, lately I'm plagued with desire for a Festool TS55 plunge cut saw and a roto-hammer. The saw is just a drool item that will allow me to cut sheet goods far more efficiently....the roto-hammer is to speed up all the holes I've been drilling into concrete lately (my milwaukee cordless is hating it)


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## betterdrywall

I have never actually tried out an auto feed,,, I did ask a supplier about them once.. He did not have anything postitive to say about the AF... The brand he was selling was Porter Cable.. The thing I noticed right off the bat was the extra weight. His biggest complaint was from guys getting jams. Maybe just been the brand ... But then again tools have come along way since I last check them out. I have another commercial job coming up soon,, started hanging on one commercial job yesterday.. would be interesting to see the difference on stand ups.. I think there could be alot of time saved on standups.Not sure what the deal is with all the commercial jobs,, seems like everyday I have more of them coming my way. and I am not even Looking for work. as I have stated in other post,, The shtf soon,, I'll be like one of them kitty kats out back in the sand pit soon


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## p.e.trapp

sorry for my english
we try this machine for my guy s
i think is more fast to a standard screw gun

p.e.


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## SlimPickins

p.e.trapp said:


> sorry for my english
> we try this machine for my guy s
> i think is more fast to a standard screw gun
> 
> p.e.


Oh, I hadn't realized at first that your primary language was something other than English...after all, there ARE some guys on here who ONLY speak English, and they do a much worse job of it.:laughing:

It looks like I got some condos to start in April, with 9 ft. lids throughout...I might have to throw down for an autofeed just so I can avoid the bench work.


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## D's

We've been running hilti cordless autofeeds for a year and love them. The many pros easily outweigh the only con of more expensive screws. We just bought a three foot extension for one and now can do ceilings up to 11' off the floor and it's surprisingly more accurate than up on a bench because you can see the framing better.

If your paying you're boarders by the sqf though who cares how they get it up there. It's their loss for not making their lives easier and more profitable.


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## SlimPickins

Checkers said:


> Screw prices direct from our local supplier are as follows around here:
> 8000 Loose 1-1/4", $43.00 @ $0.005375/Screw
> 4000 Tyrex Strips 1-1/4". $55.00 @ $0.01375/Screw
> That is a $0.008375 difference per screw.
> So yes, screws are usually about twice the price.


Actually, screws are 2.56 times as expensive according to your numbers. That's not so bad though....Fein wants $65/thousand:blink:


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## Capt-sheetrock

If your really worried about the price of screws,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I know a tight arse hanger that saves his strips and reloads them himself while he watches tv at night...........

BUY THE DAMN TOOL,,,,,, geese,, we ain't in the stone age no more,, ya know????


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## 1/2 irish

*old tools - work them til they die...*

After reading all these related post & comments its got me thinking why I haven't bought one of those guns yet. Definitely it is hard to go out and purchase a new kind of gun or piece of equiptment when you still have an older model that works. Yes the newer models are somewhat faster but not always the right time to buy one til the old one dies. I guess all my tools are old and won't be replaced til they have the proper burial. Sometimes I equate it to a style of hunting gun that I have and my brother says "why don't you buy a gun like mine? And I think about a moment and sayto myself, yes you have a bigger & nicer gun but it is expensive to feed this gun. No Thank you, I will just keep shooting w/ my gun that I already have which is paid for.


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If your really worried about the price of screws,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> I know a tight arse hanger that saves his strips and reloads them himself while he watches tv at night...........
> 
> BUY THE DAMN TOOL,,,,,, geese,, we ain't in the stone age no more,, ya know????


You cannot reload the strips.


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> You cannot reload the strips.


I heard a guy on here a few months ago say that he does it all the time


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## DSJOHN

moore said:


> You cannot reload the strips.




I use to reload my old portercable[duofast] autofeed. pita but you can do it. I dont think you can reload the yellow strip ones[cant recall the brand] I have couple boxes in the garage,dont use that model anymore .. use a senco,wish I bought the Hilti:yes:


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## ubcguy89

hand feed all day, I hang commercial, and some jobs have 10,000+ sheets. you would never be able to justify buying an auto feeding gun for that many sheets. nor do I know if they work on metal?


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## gordie

the hilti guns are not auto feed guns you buy an auto feed attachment so your gun is still a single shot "the best guns on the market i might add".:thumbup:

And hilti is in the fastener biz you can get any fastener for the auto feed I don't get to use them my d.c's won't buy us special screws but i've tried them and the're self tappers work great on steel .


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## thefinisher

Honestly I have watched a lot of videos of you guys using the auto feed guns and I still have to say that a really, really, good screw gun operator will wax that @$$ :yes:. I have witnessed some really fast hangers before that blew my mind. We had one guy that hung for us from time to time that had a helper that ran the screw gun and he was ridiculous. He had a handful of screws and could screw off a sheet as fast as you could have hit the same place with your bare hand . Guy should be in the guiness book lol. We still have some guys that are really fast but it was unbelievable what that fella could do. As for myself I could never out run a collated gun with my dewalt. Also very common for some guys to put a handful of screws in their mouth where they will put the gun up to their mouth to get the screws while hanging lids. Don't think I would want to do that for long.


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## harvv

Still waiting for vids from dezal and hopefully gaz or someone doing 100 collated screws :whistling2:

And thefinisher im thinking i agree with you. When im really concentrating on screwing quickly i feel i can go very fast on the walls. I think the collated would be great for lids and tacking off when hanging alone though.


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Honestly I have watched a lot of videos of you guys using the auto feed guns and I still have to say that a really, really, good screw gun operator will wax that @$$ :yes:. I have witnessed some really fast hangers before that blew my mind. We had one guy that hung for us from time to time that had a helper that ran the screw gun and he was ridiculous. He had a handful of screws and could screw off a sheet as fast as you could have hit the same place with your bare hand . Guy should be in the guiness book lol. We still have some guys that are really fast but it was unbelievable what that fella could do. As for myself I could never out run a collated gun with my dewalt. Also very common for some guys to put a handful of screws in their mouth where they will put the gun up to their mouth to get the screws while hanging lids. Don't think I would want to do that for long.


 Did you spot those screws?:blink: Or should I ask ...Did you pad those screws!!!?


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> Did you spot those screws?:blink: Or should I ask ...Did you pad those screws!!!?


The pics on my thread looked really heavy because that piece that I hung was the piece that was already up there. The plumbers were nice enough to cut it out cleanly, so I had to stripe back over where they were already done making them appear heavy. Plus it was a garage, so it I can pad 'em all I want :jester:


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## 2buckcanuck

harvv said:


> Still waiting for vids from dezal and hopefully gaz or someone doing 100 collated screws


Deezal is the man









We all know he can beat Gazman on the auto gun









Just think of yourself being a machine Deezal, be "ONE" with the screw gun, think "virgin Wool" and be that sheep that can out run a horny Kiwi.

You can do it Deezal, were waiting on your Video







, no pressure on you at all:whistling2:

And if Deezal is too chicken,,,,, then Gordie your the Man:thumbup:


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## gazman

Am I the only one brave enough? Come on you pack of pussies have a go. Here is one hundred shots. I am the first to admit there are a fair few clickers, but the board was moving around too much. When I get a chance I will do another one, and just to make sure that it is stable I will probably do it on the ground.

http://youtu.be/kLXiN7HAZho


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## 2buckcanuck

Now Deezal will never make that video


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## SlimPickins

Damn Gaz. Now I want one. Holy crap.


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## Deezal

Workin on it still gonna get it done today. Haven't even watched the video yet


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## Deezal

Yeah I'm just gonna screw some sheets off I'm not doin what gaz did there with the board on a vice. Should make a video of screwing actual sheets on the wall see how long it takes to pop 100 into studs and misses don't count.


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## Deezal

Been stalling on the video because I've come to the realization that one of those would make me a whole lot faster than I am now plus I already knew I'd never keep up too or beat them. Only thing that stops me from buying is the fact I tape and do steel stud also so there always seems to be a more important tool to buy based on the fact that I would have to go from not supplying at all on most jobs to haveing to be out of pocket on screws for every job. Going from free to haveing to pay I usually stay away lol


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## Toontowntaper

Sounds like Deezal is admitting defeat lol jk those auto guns are faster but the cons is having to supply. Unless you can talk to the GC or DWC and get them to supply say Jobs will go even faster lol


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## gazman

Speed is one thing but what about convenience. Consider this, you put a top wall sheet into position then you have two choices.
#1 You hold the sheet in. position while you get a screw, put it on the gun then fire it into the board.
#2 You hold the sheet in position, take your gun Off your belt and fire multiple screws into the board.
There is a reason why the armed forces stopped using black powder muskets :whistling2:.


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## gazman

And why screw the lids off one screw at a time when you can hold your hands above your head and go for it.
And as for the cost, make it the industry standard by asking for them. They are the standard here,, all the dwc that I know Supply collared screws. If you want something ask. If 2buck didn't ask chances are he would still be using that bead that he hates.
Stop the whining and make it happen.


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## saskataper

http://youtu.be/_jH25WgDDPU

Just a quick vid with my Hilti


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## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> And why screw the lids off one screw at a time when you can hold your hands above your head and go for it.
> And as for the cost, make it the industry standard by asking for them. They are the standard here,, all the dwc that I know Supply collared screws. If you want something ask. If 2buck didn't ask chances are he would still be using that bead that he hates.
> Stop the whining and make it happen.


I would say most guys in Canada are sub-trades, at least in the higher Density areas. So what I'm saying there is a lot of us that work for Large DWC's. When I worked in Toronto years ago, I heard there was one company that employed around 800 guys. Even the company I'm with in my small market, I just asked my foreman how many tapers are in the company, he said around 25 regulars (they will hire more in summer). That's just tapers, it's not counting rockers, insulators, and spray guys. Plus my DWC was 2 brothers that started it, they use to be one company but they split, if they were still together were talking around 50 tapers. (other DWC is bigger actually)........ So..........

They don't give a rats arse about doing things to benefit us, unless it benefits them. If using example of going from metal bead to paper bead. They realized over time there were less repairs/call backs for them, their hour working repair guys could fix things faster if there were repairs, and that the paper bead saved them on mudding material. They sure didn't say lets give 2buck paper bead because he can get his job done faster. The only way I was able to force paper bead on them, was b/c things were booming.

With the drywallers, most in the Resi market have them supply their own nails and screws, well the commercial market they will supply any type specialty screw (self tappers, zips, long screws etc). There is no way the DWC will supply them auto feed screws, it would not benefit them. So the question is, how much would the auto feed gun benefit a sub-trade rocker, is it cost effective if it cost them more to supply........ which brings me to my last point:thumbup:

I think most of the rockers on here know where the auto gun would help them(tacking up and ceilings big time), but on the walls, I think you would be shocked at how fast some guys are on the single feed gun. With that video Saskataper just put up, there are guys who could go at the same pace he was. Buy the time they fired the screw in, they would already have the screw on the tip of the gun when they moved 16" to the left:yes:

Just need someone to post a vid, going at a fairly good pace at screwing off,,, and you might say Gazman" dam those guys are really quick:blink:, I can see why their conflicted about buying a auto feed gun"


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## moore

I'm gonna smoke em!!!!:yes:.....Gordie ? you in?:blink:


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## Deezal

http://youtu.be/51xNi0Y6QGkj

Just because I keep saying I'm going too, this isn't the video but I figured I needed to post something. Gets way faster. Tough to imagine compared to gaz's video there but yeah


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## SlimPickins

Deezal said:


> http://youtu.be/51xNi0Y6QGkj
> 
> Just because I keep saying I'm going too, this isn't the video but I figured I needed to post something. Gets way faster. Tough to imagine compared to gaz's video there but yeah


The light was nice


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## gordie

Is that you Deazle looks like a good job your on:yes:. steel Jobs out here suck they are just too disorganized so many guy's have come out here "me included" and said hey I do steel to, thinking they can get some great gravy framing in haha lol.Well they have a way with sucking all that gravy through their straw and leaving you with the work.You do look slow in that vid but i think your using self tappers they definatly go in slower especially if your gun doesn't have a fresh battery.
That being said It's not good enough to build a challenge on so i will make a vid today I don't know how to get it on u tube or on here yet but will figure it out tomorrow gonna take that day off:thumbup:.
O and don't worry I'm not going to break any records Ive seen way faster than me I just have to answer this callout haha I go fast enough that paying for my own screws and even worse paying double for them just isn't worth it usually. But lately we are getting swamped and the collated might just be worth it 

So moore here it comes I hope bro and if it goes good I'll cheers you with one of my beers i still owe ya one mang.:drink:


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## harvv

Thanks for postin vid deezal. I agree with gordie though self tappers are bad comparison to wood.(at least for me its a lot slower but we havent had much commercial work around here in several years..so maybe just my inexperience heh)

If i can get a camera from someone might try to take a vid whenever im hanging something. 

Ooo and was just thinking about saksas gopro trowel vid. A GoPro hanging vid might be sweet to watch.


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## Deezal

Ill get a better one here eventually, that was a quick one I took an didn't want to post but figured you guys might be questioning my gumption lol ill get a close up of the self tapers and take a little show around the unit and go for a quick walk outside, pretty decent size site.


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## Deezal

Oh and Gordie, I had to make a google account, that let me make a youtube a count and then from there I had to download what's called the "YouTube capture" app for my iPhone. Was a real pain in the ass lol


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## Integrity

Can anyone tell me where in the world I can find self tapping drywall screws for an auto screw gun (collated strips). I'm hanging on the under side of 16 gauge joists. needle points just aint cutting it.


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## thefinisher

Damn I need to record some of our faster guys with their souped up dewalts :yes:. To me it doesn't seem like the collated guns turn the rpm's necessary to keep up in a drag race, but they are smooth in consistent which could win in the long run.


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## gordie

Integrity said:


> Can anyone tell me where in the world I can find self tapping drywall screws for an auto screw gun (collated strips). I'm hanging on the under side of 16 gauge joists. needle points just aint cutting it.


|Do you have access to a hilti rep he'll have them.:thumbup:


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Damn I need to record some of our faster guys with their souped up dewalts :yes:. To me it doesn't seem like the collated guns turn the rpm's necessary to keep up in a drag race, but they are smooth in consistent which could win in the long run.


 VID!:whistling2:


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## saskataper

Integrity said:


> Can anyone tell me where in the world I can find self tapping drywall screws for an auto screw gun (collated strips). I'm hanging on the under side of 16 gauge joists. needle points just aint cutting it.


PAM makes them so if you find a Pam dealer they should have them,


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## gazman

thefinisher said:


> Damn I need to record some of our faster guys with their souped up dewalts :yes:. To me it doesn't seem like the collated guns turn the rpm's necessary to keep up in a drag race, but they are smooth in consistent which could win in the long run.



Well man up, talk is cheap. My collated spins at 4000 rpm, what does the "souped up Dewalt" do?


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> VID!:whistling2:


I know I need to. Really wish we had that one guy working for one of our crews still. He is a freak! I know I have said it before, but the guy could put a screw into the stud as fast as you could have hit the same places with your hand. Have no idea how he did it.....


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## thefinisher

gazman said:


> Well man up, talk is cheap. My collated spins at 4000 rpm, what does the "souped up Dewalt" do?


It spins faster than a "stock" one. Was a thread on here a while back on how to do it. I know a few of our guys talked about modifying them to make them faster. Not sure what they did as my dewalt is stock


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## gazman

thefinisher said:


> It spins faster than a "stock" one. Was a thread on here a while back on how to do it. I know a few of our guys talked about modifying them to make them faster. Not sure what they did as my dewalt is stock


If that is the thread I am thinking of Joepro was talking about souping up the gun. But he never responded about how too do it.


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