# Please clarify this "per sheet" business



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Skimming through threads on here I get to understand most of the piecework pay rate goes by the sheet. Again, I read hero talk about finishing x00 sheets per week. What I want to know is:

What the sheet?

Are we talking 8's? 9's? 10's? 12's? If guys are getting paid 7 bucks a sheet for an 8, that's not bad, but too bad if it's a 12. I figure logically it would be by the 12, but telling from the ages of the stories told, only 8's existed then.

Please help.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I'll assume they're 12's and they don't get paid much for them. But that's what I personally think of the threads I read


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I charge by the square foot. So it doesn't matter the size except it takes just as long to hang a 12 footer as an 8 footer and you don't cover as much or get paid as much. So it does matter... I never have bought into charging by the sheet. It is the same, I guess.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

if they're 8's I charge 1.5x more


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

^I take it you don't like butt joints.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Tim0282 said:


> I charge by the square foot. So it doesn't matter the size except it takes just as long to hang a 12 footer as an 8 footer and you don't cover as much or get paid as much. So it does matter... I never have bought into charging by the sheet. It is the same, I guess.


Do you wear your flip-flops to bed?:jester:

There are more variables to installation speed between an 8 and a 12, like amount of screws used per sheet, and stud/soundbar spacing, but that's really irrelevant.

I get paid by square foot too, but again since being on this site there are those that pay out on a per sheet basis. Yes I think it's hugely different between an 8 and a 12. Think about it. If Ames states you can finish 400 sheets per week using their automatic taping tools...is that 12,800 board feet or is it 19,200 board feet? Did they use 12's in the 70's? Is the same 8 foot benchmark being used today? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just trying to understand fully the per sheet thing, and if it's changed in the past 40 years.


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## Diesel Drywall Inc. (Jan 14, 2009)

I have been wondering the same thing when I read about per sheet pricing...Do you have a price per sheet for 8's 9's 10's 12's etc. Or is it 1 price for any size sheet? If it is 1 price for any size sheet someone is getting screwed either GC, HO or Hanger. A GC is basing the drywall budget by square ft. and if you are charging x amount for 12's and the job is all 8's how are you in the ball park? I especially dont understand how a finisher can use this method (If you did not hang the board) how do you know how many sheets? do you go around and count them...How do account for the sheets under 12'?

I am not bashing this method. I just don't to understand it.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Have to agree with both of you. I prefer by the foot and I prefer to furnish the rock and have my guys hang. Then I know how many sheets and how many feet. Whether we use 8,9,10,12,14 foot rock. And I know how many screws to buy and cases of glue and beads and tape and AP mud and Light mud and bags of texture or not and rosin paper and masking tape and plastic. I don't like to rely on some other guy buying what we need to do the job. And if they bought what I asked them to. We walk in with the rock and haul the scrap away and it is swept and ready for the painter when we leave.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Every time I read something on here about " per sheet ", I have to go grab my calculator and try to figure it out. I figure everything by sq.ft. When I load a job it's 8,9,10,12,and 14s. So # of sheets mean nothing to me. 
I don't even know what I pay for a 4x 12. I just know what I pay per sq. ft.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Bevelation said:


> ^I take it you don't like butt joints.


More mud, more time = $$$$

of course unless there is no other way of having it stocked, then I'm a little more understanding


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

whitey97 said:


> more mud, more time = $$$$
> 
> of course unless there is no other way of having it stocked, then i'm a little more understanding


* BAAAAAAAAAM! Amen.*


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2009)

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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

If I did a per sheet price I would go by 10's, just to try to average out the 8, 10, and 12' sheets. But I try to price out a job by the foot not the sheet. Plus most homes here are 54" and only come in 12's.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Its the same with other materials you don't just call the lumber yard and ask how much for a 2x4 same with rock it is based on per thousand like most bldg materials , if you hang rock and tape 12' board of course it should cost more than 8' or 10' simple concept .


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

I have been doing some commercial work for a painter and He pays me 9.00 per board, they are all 9 ft standups and no bead, he supplies all materials. I have done x hundred boards per week, so 9x4= 36 sq ft per 9 ft board. If I tape 200 boards, I have taped 200x 36= 7200 square feet..I charge more or less depending on the height of the ceiling.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Bevelation said:


> Skimming through threads on here I get to understand most of the piecework pay rate goes by the sheet. Again, I read hero talk about finishing x00 sheets per week. What I want to know is:
> 
> What the sheet?
> 
> ...


hahah, you know i agree.

i know this is most likely the region you are from.......but in my area, we ALWAYS refer to piecework as PER TOTAL SQ FT

never 'per sheet' or whatever.........

just like Bevelation says, how the hell do you know what size ppl are even talkin about? its just too much ambiguity...for me at least.

id be interested to hear other ppls opinions on this as well, this is one of the things that bugged me when i first joined on here hahhahah....to keep reading about people referring to piecework as 'per sheet' etc etc.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Bevelation said:


> Do you wear your flip-flops to bed?:jester:
> 
> There are more variables to installation speed between an 8 and a 12, like amount of screws used per sheet, and stud/soundbar spacing, but that's really irrelevant.
> 
> I get paid by square foot too, but again since being on this site there are those that pay out on a per sheet basis. Yes I think it's hugely different between an 8 and a 12. Think about it. If Ames states you can finish 400 sheets per week using their automatic taping tools...is that 12,800 board feet or is it 19,200 board feet? Did they use 12's in the 70's? Is the same 8 foot benchmark being used today? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just trying to understand fully the per sheet thing, and if it's changed in the past 40 years.


good point again.

first off, just off the top of MY head..........i can hang 8's by myself (not like i do this, but just making a point).

ask me to hang 12's by myself?....no way.

so, yes....HUGE difference.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Diesel Drywall Inc. said:


> I have been wondering the same thing when I read about per sheet pricing...Do you have a price per sheet for 8's 9's 10's 12's etc. Or is it 1 price for any size sheet? If it is 1 price for any size sheet someone is getting screwed either GC, HO or Hanger. A GC is basing the drywall budget by square ft. and if you are charging x amount for 12's and the job is all 8's how are you in the ball park? I especially dont understand how a finisher can use this method (If you did not hang the board) how do you know how many sheets? do you go around and count them...How do account for the sheets under 12'?
> 
> I am not bashing this method. I just don't to understand it.



yuuuup. this is the 'ambiguous' part i was talking about above.

this 'per sheet' jargon is just TOO confusing for everyone.


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## sam wilsee (Aug 24, 2009)

Well the general rule is if your getting paid it goes like this if it's an 8 footer 8X4=96 then you times that by 96x__whatever your getting paid per foot and if it's a 54" then you 54X12=648 then 648X__whatever your getting paid per foot...
EG.
8X4=96----->96 X the number of 8's you have
9X4=36------>36 X the number of 9's you have
10X4=40----->etc.
12X4=48----->etc.
14X4=56----->etc.
54X12=648--->etc
add up all your board feet minus any board that's left behind and times that by the number your geting paid per foot and their you go.
Some drywall company will pay you a base price of X cent's a foot and it goes up penny for every high part,arche's and other thing's


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

now i am confused too!


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

sam wilsee said:


> Well the general rule is if your getting paid it goes like this if it's an 8 footer 8X4=96 then you times that by 96x__whatever your getting paid per foot and if it's a 54" then you 54X12=648 then 648X__whatever your getting paid per foot...
> EG.
> 8X4=96----->96 X the number of 8's you have
> 9X4=36------>36 X the number of 9's you have
> ...


 I think your math is a little off a 4x8 = 32 not 96 and usually it's the width then the length and then thickness kinda like a 2x4x 8' not a 8 4x2.... whatever length you have i think you are just confusing everyone again.... simple math there.... the proper way would be as this 4x12 - 1/2" not to hard to figure out even if you have a 3rd grade education...


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## sam wilsee (Aug 24, 2009)

it's not that confusing you know that an 8 is 8 feet by 4 feet right 
well you times 8X4=32 and same with 9's you times 9X4=36...etc..etc..
And you know when you walk in a house their's 8's in a stack and their's 9's,10's,12's,14's,,Ceiling drywall(to be used strickly for ceiling)or CD as they call it.
What you do when your doing your count is you count as too how many 8,9,10,12,14
you count it as 
8's are 32 so if you have 104 8's it's counted as 32X104=3328Sq foot of 8's and let's say your getting paid 21cent's a foot then your times that 3328X0.21= 698.88 dolar's for those 8's
so not again
8X4=32 times how many 8's you have
9X4=36 times how many 9's you have
10X4=40 times how many 10's you have
12X4=48 times how many 12's you have
14X4=56 times how many 14's you have
54X4=216 times how many 54's you have


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## sam wilsee (Aug 24, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> I think your math is a little off a 4x8 = 32 not 96 and usually it's the width then the length and then thickness kinda like a 2x4x 8' not a 8 4x2.... whatever length you have i think you are just confusing everyone again.... simple math there.... the proper way would be as this 4x12 - 1/2" not to hard to figure out even if you have a 3rd grade education...


i don't know where your doing your boarding..but you don't get paid for that 1/2 inch it's just the length and the height not the width


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## sam wilsee (Aug 24, 2009)

sam wilsee said:


> i don't know where your doing your boarding..but you don't get paid for that 1/2 inch it's just the length and the height not the width


 it's not like an 8 foot 2x4,,,it's not this 8X4x1/2 inch it's only 8x4=32 it's called a square foot not a linear foot


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

Oh brother...............


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Sam,
Go back and read your #19 post and you will see why it's confusing.:whistling2:


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

ok im confused.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Muddauber said:


> Sam,
> Go back and read your #19 post and you will see why it's confusing.:whistling2:


 hey i like his figuring at his price 54" -12' = 648' I should only have to do one job a year , but at any rate what is so complicated is just in there tiny little minds , with competition like that , well lets just say not much to worry about.... simple just use sq ft ( and not to confuse those simple minded ones walls and ceilings sq ft ) not a price by the sheet.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Here's a good one. Most scrappers charge .025 - .03 per be ft. One guy wanted to know how many sheets cuz he charged $1.00 per sheet. If it's all 8's that's .03, but all 12's, then only .02. His theory was that ther was 1or2 scraps per sheet no matter the size. I figure everything per sq ft, per sheet just too much ciphering to see if the price is fair.


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## tvo (Aug 28, 2009)

is 0.30$ a sq foot a good price for doing 8foot wall and ceiling in a bunglow house in ontario


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Here's a good one. Most scrappers charge .025 - .03 per be ft. One guy wanted to know how many sheets cuz he charged $1.00 per sheet. If it's all 8's that's .03, but all 12's, then only .02. His theory was that ther was 1or2 scraps per sheet no matter the size. I figure everything per sq ft, per sheet just too much ciphering to see if the price is fair.


yup.

This will offend some people, but if you're working per SHEET versus per board square feet, you're an idiot. And if you cant figure out why, you'll never own a successful drywall business.

there, i said it.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

I bid by the foot and pay by the board. Evrything is bid based on 12s and before I stock I whack it up for 12, 14, 16, 54" etc. Whatever the footage is doesnt matter because everything is divided by 48 and broken in to twelves regardless. High work is charged double.


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## ozzyr60 (Aug 4, 2009)

i,ve used per sheet for myself to ball park but not to bill but people who use it are talking about 8 footers so if you mix your order of sheetrock up with other sizes you would have to adjust for it


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

the trick is to find the right sqft number and make it work out for the labor by the board. It does get tricky with the math if you can't use a calculator.
Me personnally I pay the hangers by the board for the total footage and I pay my tapers by the finshed sqft. Hangers get more because they have to handle every peice.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

rockdaddy said:


> the trick is to find the right sqft number and make it work out for the labor by the board. It does get tricky with the math if you can't use a calculator.
> Me personnally I pay the hangers by the board for the total footage and I pay my tapers by the finshed sqft. Hangers get more because they have to handle every peice.


 what the hell do you do measure every piece of scrap to deduct for the finishers ? That is a load of crap... got to base your price on something and total hung should be good enough for the finishers also. that is the fair and proper way of doing it , there is no second guessing it.... do you deduct for the general contractor as well ? big mistake . the hangers handle it once the tapers have to give it 3 coats plus whatever else they have to do such as texture and sanding....what about a cut up job should get more in fact because of the extra time...


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> what the hell do you do measure every piece of scrap to deduct for the finishers ? That is a load of crap... got to base your price on something and total hung should be good enough for the finishers also. that is the fair and proper way of doing it , there is no second guessing it.... do you deduct for the general contractor as well ? big mistake . the hangers handle it once the tapers have to give it 3 coats plus whatever else they have to do such as texture and sanding....what about a cut up job should get more in fact because of the extra time...


someone hand this man a cold beer.

you tell em stilts.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I hope he meant "showing footage" which would be the total delivered footage less smoke walls and first layers on two layer work. But I agree that tapers are on each foot three times vs. one. Taping here generally pays about 50% more than hanging.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

Welcome to my world.
Here in Philadelphia, you have guys bidding jobs as low as .46 per sqft. The professional drywall estimator here is forced to look at every aspect of what is being bid and who he is bidding against. Right now in this economy, we have contractors coming from Va. Md. Ny. and as far away as Massachusetts coming in for wages to get the work.
Any drywall guy worth his salt knows exactly how many feet of finished product he is turning over. FAIR???? How is it fair to pay tapers for the built in waste factor for the job? Wate boards and buried boards are boards that the taper doesn't even touch. Why would you pay for something when you are not receiving for the money. That money is put to better use in my bank account.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

And for you guys who don't understand this "whole per sheet business", .46 per sqft comes out to $22.08 per sheet. Supplied, installed, scrapped, finished for paint, two touch ups, and a year end.
If I tried to charge what some of the guys in here get I would be lonlier than the maytag repairman.
Competition is a bitch especially when you are in this business.
Biggest finish trade on the job and you get paid like a laborer. Somedays I wonder why I chose this profession.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

I am guessing by the tone of the comments that there are a lot of tapers in here.
I agree that the finishers have more trips and spend more time on the job but you got to play the cards that are dealt. Builders and contractors here view drywall guys as interchangable parts to be switched on a whim.


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## sam wilsee (Aug 24, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> hey i like his figuring at his price 54" -12' = 648' I should only have to do one job a year , but at any rate what is so complicated is just in there tiny little minds , with competition like that , well lets just say not much to worry about.... simple just use sq ft ( and not to confuse those simple minded ones walls and ceilings sq ft ) not a price by the sheet.


it's that how it is,or do you break it down and charge by 8,9,10,12,14 when everyone know's that their are also 10',12',14' etc etc...don't you count up how many 8,9,10,12,14 etc etc in the pile then add up the price pre sheet, for the 8,9,10,12,14 etc etc let's say you have 24 8's,24 9's,34 10's,46 12's,17 14 footer's how much do you charge for that,and how do you figure it out,some say 8X4X0.5(or 1/2inch) or let's say it's a 9 footer 9X4X0.5(or 1/2 inch) etc etc.Is that how you do it,and you times that by the number of cent's your getting per foot then? how do drywaller's count their board?


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

sam wilsee said:


> Well the general rule is if your getting paid it goes like this if it's an 8 footer 8X4=96 then you times that by 96x__whatever your getting paid per foot and if it's a 54" then you 54X12=648 then 648X__whatever your getting paid per foot...
> EG.
> 8X4=96----->96 X the number of 8's you have
> 9X4=36------>36 X the number of 9's you have
> ...



Look Sam,

A 4x8 has 32 sq. ft., not 96 sq. ft.

A 54"x12 has 54 sq. ft., not 648 sq. ft.

Or are you hanging 54' long boards?

How many mexicans would it take to handle one of those?


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

sam wilsee said:


> it's that how it is,or do you break it down and charge by 8,9,10,12,14 when everyone know's that their are also 10',12',14' etc etc...don't you count up how many 8,9,10,12,14 etc etc in the pile then add up the price pre sheet, for the 8,9,10,12,14 etc etc let's say you have 24 8's,24 9's,34 10's,46 12's,17 14 footer's how much do you charge for that,and how do you figure it out,some say 8X4X0.5(or 1/2inch) or let's say it's a 9 footer 9X4X0.5(or 1/2 inch) etc etc.Is that how you do it,and you times that by the number of cent's your getting per foot then? how do drywaller's count their board?


 That is not how i do it don't make it complicated . Just figure out the sq ft you need and order the rock or if supplied just figure out the feet from that... if a contractor or homeowners wants to know the price per board let them figure it out themselves..... the simple fact is it still all boils down to how much per ft not board... so i do not break it down it is a sad waste of time . just have one number for hanging one for finish and don't clutter up your estimate or proposal.... if you were a carpenter framing a home you would not break down every size piece of wood in there or and electrician would not break down every run of wire would he , or a plumber would not break down every piece of pipe , the list goes on and on , so why break down every size piece of board going into the job ... just give them a total footage for the work being done. do they also want a price on what your different mud or tape , bead etc. ?they usually don't care about that because it all is in the material package and so should rock.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> That is not how i do it don't make it complicated . Just figure out the sq ft you need and order the rock or if supplied just figure out the feet from that... if a contractor or homeowners wants to know the price per board let them figure it out themselves..... the simple fact is it still all boils down to how much per ft not board... so i do not break it down it is a sad waste of time . just have one number for hanging one for finish and don't clutter up your estimate or proposal.... if you were a carpenter framing a home you would not break down every size piece of wood in there or and electrician would not break down every run of wire would he , or a plumber would not break down every piece of pipe , the list goes on and on , so why break down every size piece of board going into the job ... just give them a total footage for the work being done. do they also want a price on what your different mud or tape , bead etc. ?they usually don't care about that because it all is in the material package and so should rock.


Give it up Stilts!

common sense isn't so common buddy.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

alltex said:


> now i am confused too!


too much tape for you , your cut off


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> Give it up Stilts!
> 
> common sense isn't so common buddy.


 You are so right i was just banging my head over this the other morning , gave me a super big headache wondering how some people manage their money when they can't even do some simple math... I am so done with this thread , ufda me ....


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> You are so right i was just banging my head over this the other morning , gave me a super big headache wondering how some people manage their money when they can't even do some simple math... I am so done with this thread , ufda me ....


yea........i was actually gonna just reply "Nathan please close this thread; going nowhere"

haha....

seriously though, i feel the same way......and to calm BOTH sides of this argument, i will say this:

whether you pay per BOARD or per SF..........i dont think either way is technically 'fair' (i read someone bringing up how its 'unfair' to pay per sf to the finishers blah blah because of the waste, etc on the floor)

...ok, i 'get' that argument...but nonetheless, if you think about it BOTH ways arent 'fair'.........but when it comes to simplicity and how things are GENERALLY done and have been done forever in this industry (as far as i know), per sf is the most COMMON method.........

not saying paying per board is wrong....not saying paying per sf is right.......but its just the way things are done.....i hope we can all agree to this.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Sam, I think you're getting hung up on the 1/2" part.....

Our "board foot" is the square footage of the board. Period. I understand that you might be using the board footage formula for nominal lumber. But even that formula when applied to plywood, etc. under 1" thick is rounded up to a full inch. 

But to the whole sq ft vs. sheet business, I believe that is pretty much a geographical thing. Per sheet seems (to me) more common in markets that primarily carry only 8's and 12's, such as Florida and Oklahoma. Sq. ft. rates pretty much rule in the markets that stock the full range of sizes. At least that's been my experience. And as long as everybody in a particular market pays or works that way, it's no big deal.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

uknow, that is true now that i think about it -- it all depends what region you are from, Darrens right....


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

this thread still lives


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

why do some threads go away and some (no mater how old and boring) keep coming back.this one is a no brainer if you know how to multiply and here it is agin.seems like i just get interested in one ,log off and when i come back it moved or gone and and old one is in the new thread place.someone needs to keep it simple for us simple drywallers.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Alltex, I sent you a private message that might help with locating threads.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

What have I done?


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

are we figuring out the "per sheet business" yet?


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

this thread is what happens when the topics on a forum, as of late, are dry and uninteresting...





....


there i said it.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

LOL, I stopped looking or responding to it long ago


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