# My right hand man & his partner



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

*My right hand man & his sidekick*

If used properly>>Shows up every day,does not talk back,does not jam on me,cuts very easily & most importantly,easy to clean.:thumbup:

Can someone tell me when the cracks start happening,cause I wanna give the builders a heads up.:confused1:
Still waiting, after all these years.:whistling2:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Someone's in a fighting mood:boxing:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Not @ all slim.I'm a lover not a fighter.:wacko:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

:laughing: Well, you're gonna get a fight whether you want it or not!

I use the stuff all the time, and I haven't had a call back since......:confused1:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> If used properly>>Shows up every day,does not talk back,does not jam on me,cuts very easily & most importantly,easy to clean.:thumbup:
> 
> Can someone tell me when the cracks start happening,cause I wanna give the builders a heads up.:confused1:
> Still waiting, after all these years.:whistling2:


Do you mesh everything or just flats? I have meshed flats for years without any problems even though some people will swear it will crack every time. Seems like every time a contractor tells me they don't like mesh cause it cracks I find out one time they meshed a couple flats and ran with all purpose or topping compound.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)




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## capspackle (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't think I would use this in a high dollar custom home, but I've 
done a s**t load of commerical jobs this way.
Flats and butts get mesh, angles get paper tape.
I just prefer to use the brown bag material Durabond 90


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

I hate USG, some serious sucky material. They need to rename that sack ,,, panty waste compound.


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## gotmud (Mar 21, 2011)

I agree! I use usg hot mud all the time! NEVER had a problem. I do lay a bed of hot mud first, then mesh, then coat it. I use durabond for heavy fills and plaster repairs.


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

I can already see this thread is going to be interesting reading.

If you mesh tapers have good LUCK with your methods, more power to you. I'm sure that the vast majority of finishers will prefer paper tape with all purpose compound. Whatever you use, as long as it is working for you, keep using it. Who knows, maybe someone has good results taping with duct tape and topping it with play-doh.:whistling2: 

As for now I will stick with my friend paper and his companion all purpose.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

....


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Swap the mesh for fibafuse if you want to do it properly and greatly reduce any chance of a call back :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

capspackle said:


> I don't think I would use this in a high dollar custom home, but I've
> done a s**t load of commerical jobs this way.
> Flats and butts get mesh, angles get paper tape.
> I just prefer to use the brown bag material Durabond 90


Durabond 90 is still a true hot mud . One of the first hot mud's If If I'm not wrong . It sets and cures faster than all the rest I've used,, and there are a lot of them out there. Ruco is the worst . I just tried proform 90, It's ok.
I tape butts and seams with paper and 90,, year round.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> I hate USG, some serious sucky material. They need to rename that sack ,,, panty waste compound.


Your right .. clean water ,, warm water,, cold water etc,,, the sH1t thins down . even after mixing it heavy. too much remixing. too dark in color .
I'm speaking of the usg in the white bag.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

No hot mud is easy sand.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> Do you mesh everything or just flats? I have meshed flats for years without any problems even though some people will swear it will crack every time. Seems like every time a contractor tells me they don't like mesh cause it cracks I find out one time they meshed a couple flats and ran with all purpose or topping compound.


First thing we do is all the flats & butts(very few)on the job.For the butts,we set the mesh in a bed of hot mud,lay flat, then coat so its flat right away.Then the mesh & hot mud goes away till the next job.Its all standard usg till finish.
Its funny you say that cause same here, every story or person I have talked to,that every had issue's,did not use hot mud,Period.The smile I get from them after I tell them where they went wrong,Priceless,Now they are your "best friend".


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciswhjI6sLk


Didn't realize someone mentioned no coat & fast set.But since you brought it to "my" thread,I will comment.I have been using no coat for many years now,& have used & tested every material that is sold on this island,In "real life" situations, not on 1 piece of sheetrock,that, imo, is improperly installed.In order for no coat to be properly tested,it needs to be a "true" corner with both sides of rock cut flush to each other so the no coat corner is "grabbing" all rock.
Like I have said somewhere on here before,No coat "recommends" all -purpose joint compound,& I do not want to "void" my warranty,& that"s how I roll.:thumbsup:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

capspackle said:


> I don't think I would use this in a high dollar custom home, but I've
> done a s**t load of commerical jobs this way.
> Flats and butts get mesh, angles get paper tape.
> I just prefer to use the brown bag material Durabond 90


Go take a look in the photo section,High end is 80% of my work.:thumbsup:
I started this trade back in the late 80's running the banjo using the brown bag,dead of the winter,using hot water.I will never look @ either ever again.:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

This site has become......:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> Go take a look in the photo section,High end is 80% of my work.:thumbsup:
> I started this trade back in the late 80's running the banjo using the brown bag,dead of the winter,using hot water.I will never look @ either ever again.:blink:


 That's what 2 homes?


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> That's what 2 homes?


 Are you kidding,Yup 2 homes that's all we have done:whistling2:Some of us have better things to do with our lives.
Its 1am & I'm on drywall talk doing invoices for last weeks jobs,wow,whats wrong with me


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> Are you kidding,Yup 2 homes that's all we have done:whistling2:Some of us have better things to do with our lives.
> Its 1am & I'm on drywall talk doing invoices for last weeks jobs,wow,whats wrong with me


 I'm just messing with you final . man your touchy. :notworthy::notworthy:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I'm just messing with you final . man your touchy. :notworthy::notworthy:


He's doing invoices, and found out he made no money, thats why he's so touchy


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> He's doing invoices, and found out he made no money, thats why he's so touchy


hand finisher ,, we never make any money!! not in VA. Can't speak for NY.


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## Checkers (Jun 25, 2010)

I got mud and mesh a lot just because I can skim these small jobs in a day.

I cheat though...
Apply mesh to flats, double mesh on butts, then I stripe my flats with hot mud with an 8" knife and bed my butt tape in hot mud at the same.time.
After that I box it once with Plus 3 through a twelve box set on 3. Works perfect for everything!


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> hand finisher ,, we never make any money!! not in VA. Can't speak for NY.


Maybe you should think about using mesh:thumbsup:.I bought 2 houses doing drywall,I let the mesh make me all the money.
& my arms thank me every day


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

Ok, I have used mesh before and don't like the end result.(hairline crack) I do have one use for mesh tape that I am happy with: when I have had to use metal corner beads, I reinforce them with mesh tape. I run the mesh tape down the entire length of the bead splitting it half on the tape and half on the rock. I have had good luck with the metal corner beads not cracking using this method.

I know this kind of contradicts my statement saying that mesh always cracks. The only place that it doesn't crack on me is on metal beads.

PAPER TAPE AND AUTO TOOLS FOR ME!!!!!


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

every painter I know that has the hairline crack issue,did not use fast set compound.Is that the case mt buckets


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> every painter I know that has the hairline crack issue,did not use fast set compound.Is that the case mt buckets


 
No, that is not the case at all. Quick set compounds are a vital part of some finishing jobs. Yes, they do set harder than regular compounds, which would prevent cracking. I just don't use them all the time. I have had cracks with quick set at mesh tape and on some repairs with mesh and quickset they have withstood the test of time.

I prefer paper and all purpose. Maybe you are better than I am. I can't get mesh to make a good inside corner and I gave up on trying years ago. Paper is my preference.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

You either A) have a small job that you need to have two coats of mud on in one day or B) Use boxes with hot mud cause if not your not saving any time. 

I highly doubt you would do a house in mesh; taping everything (angles included) and then next coat by hand with hot mud. Because it would be three times faster to tape a house with papertape and box the next coat (flat and angle).


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Can you even box angles taped in mesh? I would think it would just tear the sh** out of mesh. Same with meshing butts then boxing unless butt was hollow how would you box it without box cutting mesh as far as that goes I don't see how boxing any butts can achieve as good a finish (flat) as hand coating.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Cratter said:


> You either A) have a small job that you need to have two coats of mud on in one day or B) Use boxes with hot mud cause if not your not saving any time.
> 
> I highly doubt you would do a house in mesh; taping everything (angles included) and then next coat by hand with hot mud. Because it would be three times faster to tape a house with papertape and box the next coat (flat and angle).


If you would back track & read *everything*,you would realize we don't use mesh in our corners.Flats & butts, that's it.
You people are too stuck on these machines & don't know what easy work is.:whistling2:
Personally I'm not using mesh *just* because its faster.For us its a *flatter* finish,paper tape builds up "bad joints" mesh doesn't. I am done wiping out paper tape,Yes I use a corner roller to bed my corner tape.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Well i cant blame you for being done with wiping out papertape on flats FTD, Thats a big reason i like the fuse, Mesh seems to work for you, I was a hand finisher, now im a machine believer but im still listening, You never know what tip someone else may have so it does not pay to be to short sighted.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

did you guys both fail paper mache class in pre school/kindergarten or something


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> Personally I'm not using mesh *just* because its faster.


 
That's just it. Its taking you longer to finish a house cause you have to hand finish all the seams on the "second" coat.* 


Doing an 8-10' ceiling with a box is, what, four times quicker than by hand?




* unless its scaffold work where boxing wouldn't be faster.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I just meshed and papered a 120 board apartrment today, Everything is second coated but bead. Tommorow I will finish coat everything and then lightly sand Thursday. Everything will be perfect. Can you do this autotaping? Also dont tell me how easy the sanding is when running boxes. Its a bitch compared to my handfinished angles and seams. If the sanding aspect isnt enough for you then think of like this. I will be going to start work tommorow not having to worry about the mud being dry . Its ez 90 so it will be. Do you see dollar signs yet?


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

boco said:


> I just meshed and papered a 120 board apartrment today, Everything is second coated but bead. Tommorow I will finish coat everything and then lightly sand Thursday. Everything will be perfect. Can you do this autotaping? Also dont tell me how easy the sanding is when running boxes. Its a bitch compared to my handfinished angles and seams. If the sanding aspect isnt enough for you then think of like this. I will be going to start work tommorow not having to worry about the mud being dry . Its ez 90 so it will be. Do you see dollar signs yet?


I hope your not another narrow minded hand finisher..that is hating on auto tools..refusing to admit that they are a power house in the finishing world...im not hating on hand finishing....just saying like it is.either keep up with the times or your ass will get left in the past....not directed directly at you boco.so dont take offence


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

*Think Green*

automatic tools are a GREENER approach to constuction:whistling2:if u no what i mean:yes:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

smisner50s said:


> I hope your not another narrow minded hand finisher..that is hating on auto tools..refusing to admit that they are a power house in the finishing world...im not hating on hand finishing....just saying like it is.either keep up with the times or your ass will get left in the past....not directed directly at you boco.so dont take offence


 No offense taken at all. i just think that mesh jobs can be completed faster in terms of number of days. That with a higher quality finish thats easier to sand while using less mud. I have a 1100 board coming up that i was plan on using auto tools for. Now I am thinking just mesh all the standup seams. Then boozaka and glaze corners while using a nail spotter. Basically take all the hand wiping of tape out of equation. i honestly think i can get some bigtime production doing this. Anyways I am always trying to find ways to produce more with a better quality. Also please remember auto tools are not acceptable in my area for residential. Then most commercial jobs require a level 4 finish. In other words no seams that you can surf on. LOL Not hatin on the auto tools just they have some draw backs when it comes to prepping, quality, amount of sanding and drytime. Also as I have stated before running a bazooka and running boxes isnt exactly what I would call riding the gravy train. Its hard work.:yes:


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

boco said:


> No offense taken at all. i just think that mesh jobs can be completed faster in terms of number of days. That with a higher quality finish thats easier to sand while using less mud. I have a 1100 board coming up that i was plan on using auto tools for. Now I am thinking just mesh all the standup seams. Then boozaka and glaze corners while using a nail spotter. Basically take all the hand wiping of tape out of equation. i honestly think i can get some bigtime production doing this. Anyways I am always trying to find ways to produce more with a better quality. Also please remember auto tools are not acceptable in my area for residential. Then most commercial jobs require a level 4 finish. In other words no seams that you can surf on. LOL Not hatin on the auto tools just they have some draw backs when it comes to prepping, quality, amount of sanding and drytime. Also as I have stated before running a bazooka and running boxes isnt exactly what I would call riding the gravy train. Its hard work.:yes:


Verry true they are hard work...and speeking for me I keep my stuff tuned up and my edges are tight....plus I have 15 years of only hand finishing under my belt before I went auto


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

*extra coat*

I have tried cutting corners or save time by using mesh.I have found that I had to do an extra coat or touch up on it cause you can see mesh still.Also no matter what TAPE you use you still need to flatten /finish with same amount of mud so you dont save mud.mesh costs more per foot.If you use hotmud 1rst coat you must hand coat or run hm thru boxes and pumphm costs more and flat out sucks to mix and clean every 45 90 minutes It may be a good method on smaller jobs but in a big production setting not suitable.do they sell mesh tape by the case??do I do something wrong when coating mesh or does everyone get the mesh look after reg. mud dries.I have found cracks in tape are 99.9% temperature or stucturally related. Sometimes bad rock,never materials[tapes] fault:whistling2:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

smisner50s said:


> Verry true they are hard work...and speeking for me I keep my stuff tuned up and my edges are tight....plus I have 15 years of only hand finishing under my belt before I went auto


 My first job taping was wiping down behind a bazooka. I did auto mixed with H and T for a few years then moved to NY and learned to hand tape with broadknives. That was 20 years ago. I wish i would have started using mesh a long time ago. i am getting older but quality and production is still going up.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> If you would back track & read *everything*,you would realize we don't use mesh in our corners.Flats & butts, that's it.
> You people are too stuck on these machines & don't know what easy work is.:whistling2:
> Personally I'm not using mesh *just* because its faster.For us its a *flatter* finish,paper tape builds up "bad joints" mesh doesn't. I am done wiping out paper tape,Yes I use a corner roller to bed my corner tape.


I can see how two coats will do with seams using mess... not a misspell !
No tape line to hide!


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

chris said:


> I have tried cutting corners or save time by using mesh.I have found that I had to do an extra coat or touch up on it cause you can see mesh still.Also no matter what TAPE you use you still need to flatten /finish with same amount of mud so you dont save mud.mesh costs more per foot.If you use hotmud 1rst coat you must hand coat or run hm thru boxes and pumphm costs more and flat out sucks to mix and clean every 45 90 minutes It may be a good method on smaller jobs but in a big production setting not suitable.do they sell mesh tape by the case??do I do something wrong when coating mesh or does everyone get the mesh look after reg. mud dries.I have found cracks in tape are 99.9% temperature or stucturally related. Sometimes bad rock,never materials[tapes] fault:whistling2:


 Have you tried the ultrathin? The mud is saved on butts and by not having to double up seams. You must use hotmud and they do make 120, but boxes wont work material in the seams and behind mesh. Its a little pricey, but i pay less then $4.50 per roll when purchased by the case. And there all big jobs arent they?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

hey final touch. do you bevel your butt joints? i've been doing this a little more lately.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

just would be alot of mixing and hand coating . will have to check out ultra thin mesh, would be good for quickpatches,hairlinecracks,etc.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

chris said:


> just would be alot of mixing and hand coating . will have to check out ultra thin mesh, would be good for quickpatches,hairlinecracks,etc.


 Doing messed up boxes and patches got me hooked. It does take a little getting used to but once you figure it out a light comes on. Also the mesh dispenser allows me to reach about 8'3" allowing me to do everything from floor on anything 8ft and under. Which lets me leave my stiltz in the truck.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

do you bevel butts boco?


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## drywalldoctor (Nov 13, 2010)

I have used mesh and usg quickset lite on flats with good luck. On butts i am not so sure of. I usually double mesh tape butts on small jobs and paper tape them on big jobs. The problem is there is not much quickset covering the mesh like you have on a flat. Thats why flats don't crack because you have a good amount of quickset on top of mesh. This is my opionion.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

ask my hangers about v n the butts :blink::blink::blink:.
this is what i do ,, g/p grid mark rock ^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

No. I really dont know much about it. i have seen a system on internet but it looked like a lot of work. It invoved wetting the boards then rolling them while using a backer board. How are you doing them? or what system are you using?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

no not that ridiculous system. maybe somebody who likes typing can explain what i mean.i'm tired now:sleep1:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> hey final touch. do you bevel your butt joints? i've been doing this a little more lately.


No,I bed the mesh in mud,I don't just stick it on like I do my flats.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

v butts prefill twice before papertape. has anyone tried the butt-board trim-tex makes hollow butts everytime.


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