# Help



## noone (Jul 2, 2012)

New construction. Interior drywall. Rooms have 1darker accent wall with window at the end of wall but on adjoining wall. All screwheads had to b recoated on accent walls but not on other walls. Wonder y. Lol 60 rooms were sprayed and backrolled, primer only. 20 were just sprayed, no backrolling. The end result, no difference. All accent walls were patched again over screwheads. Drywaller is blaming the painter. Painter is blaming drywaller, shabby work or the gc for saying area was ready to paint. Any input on what caused the shrinkage woud be appreciated.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

noone said:


> New construction. Interior drywall. Rooms have 1darker accent wall with window at the end of wall but on adjoining wall. All screwheads had to b recoated on accent walls but not on other walls. Wonder y. Lol 60 rooms were sprayed and backrolled, primer only. 20 were just sprayed, no backrolling. The end result, no difference. All accent walls were patched again over screwheads. Drywaller is blaming the painter. Painter is blaming drywaller, shabby work or the gc for saying area was ready to paint. Any input on what caused the shrinkage woud be appreciated.


 I have seen this happen with spray painters...Why?? I don't know.
Good thread noone...I look forward to the answer.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I know often times sprayers who don't back roll causes what I call swelling. We used to have a painter who'd do that to us all the time. He'd spray his primer really thick without back rolling and then would one coat his ceilings. And he'd say that was done. Next thing you know you could see every single one of our seems.
He was just causing way too much moisture and humidity.
It caused our mud to swell at first and then shrink as it dried out.
Things need proper time to dry. I don't if that's the case here, but I'm saying it has happened in the past.

Also, where the screws that needed to be re-coated all on the darker accent wall?
Dark colours are a bitch...they show everything...


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

So why was this not caught on the prime coat, once you have applied the colour, it's your baby to fix.

Plus, was the accent wall, a exterior wall, with insulation or something in it, was it wood or steal stud framing.

Plus since your getting into colours applied, what type of paint was it, flat, semi gloss etc

you also state you back rolled some walls, and others you didn't, the bigger question is weather you rough sanded in between coats. yes your talking screw shrinkage, just saying the rough sand is a important step also. So that's why you notice no difference,,, maybe

try pushing on the walls with your hands also, see if there is movement around the screws.... if so, the rock it self had too much moister in it.

Sounds like a large job, were there no moister meters in play. Just like steel is a conductor to hot or cold, drywall is a conductor to moister:yes:


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## Trim-Tex (May 4, 2011)

The bigger the dimensional lumber the wetter it is internally and the more it shrinks with size. Example a high moisture content 2x4" (1.5" x 3.5") can shrink 1/16 (.062) Of an inch.

a 2x6" (1.5" x 5.5") can shrink as much as 3/16 (.187) = 3 times as much as a 2x4

a 2x8 (1.5" x 7.250") can shrink more than 1/4" (.250) even though the 2x8 is double the size of the 2x4 it can shrink more than 4 times as much.

We've also learned in the test lab that drywall screws (any type) do not move with the lumber as it shrinks. The longer the screw and the deeper it is penetrated into the wood the worse this condition gets.

I'll share more data when I have a chance.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

It could just be that the color of paint on the accent shows the imperfections more readily than the other walls. A white satin wall will not show the same imperfections as a brown satin wall.

Primer/sealer.
Primer/sealer.
Primer/sealer.
Primer/sealer.
Primer/sealer.
Primer/sealer...........


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Trim-Tex said:


> The bigger the dimensional lumber the wetter it is internally and the more it shrinks with size. Example a high moisture content 2x4" (1.5" x 3.5") can shrink 1/16 (.062) Of an inch.
> 
> a 2x6" (1.5" x 5.5") can shrink as much as 3/16 (.187) = 3 times as much as a 2x4
> 
> ...


Thats amazing, Thanks for that trim tex.


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## noone (Jul 2, 2012)

Thank u to all who replied, and i agree with u all except the definition of a painter. Lol its all steel stud and it is an eggshell latex finish cil lifemaster. Obviously with the darker wall and the window it shows everything. Put a blind on that window and the wall will look great. I am jus an emloyee and have been on a diff job for a month and a half. Will b back there next week. So far nothing has been discussed between my boss, drwaller, and gc. First thing monday morning when no one is around i will push on the drywall for movement. Lf it is all tight then i would say the tapers need to do better on that wall. And the gc told my boss at the beginning that he wanted all rooms totally finished painting before flooring goes in. So we only did what the gc wanted us to do. My opinion is its all on him and i have heard no mention of a moisture meter being used either. I will suggest that we put one finish coat on that wall and then do any patchwork. And my boss jus told me yesterday that backrolling was in the specs. Lol thanks for your opinions and will keep u lnformed.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Goodluck bro! Hopefully it all pans out.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

noone said:


> And the gc told my boss at the beginning that he wanted all rooms totally finished painting before flooring goes in. So we only did what the gc wanted us to do. My opinion is its all on him . And my boss jus told me yesterday that backrolling was in the specs.


So was it in the specs to paint before the taper was done too, Guess my signature statement is true about painters:whistling2:

Learn to work with your fellow tradesmen. It's no skin of the GC's butt...... Maybe your next in line to be ran over.

Look PT, I found a new friend:thumbup::jester:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Look PT, I found a new friend:thumbup::jester:


Thank god!

**now he can stop talking to me** :whistling2::jester:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*proper drying time*

plus how much is his dillution in water on paint and primer. if you are young then youill take blame by an old scammer. say-NO-and take advice from these pro's on this site. keep asking- cause thery will answer.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

noone said:


> Lol its all steel stud and......


 So wet Timber isn't to blame, That leaves moisture in the drywall.
In New Zealand we glue and screw, and if you glue where you screw ( which is a no no) then the glue can pull the sheet back as it dries and cause the screw heads to "pop", your's is the opposite problem.
That leaves moisture in the drywall. If the drywall has been stopped up in very cold temperatures so that its holding onto its moisture, it can do all sorts of crazy things when warmed up like swelling. (happened to me when I first started out) Then there's all the moisture being dumped into it when its spray painted, usually painters have all the windows masked up and ventilation is zero add to that their love of lpg heaters and you have a recipe for disaster, not normally a problem if the drywall is completely dry .
Strange that 60 rooms have all done it consistently, you'd think some rooms would dry out better than others, different ventilation and sunlight conditions etc...
I wonder if using the wrong screws could have caused a problem? I sometimes come across jobs where the builders have used square head non drywall screws, and they tear the **** out of the face paper instead of gripping it tight like a proper drywall screw...as i say in NZ we glue as well as screw and only screw the perimeter of the sheet, so wouldn't be as bad as not using glue and relying entirely on screws.

Take a picture for us...also if you see any sheep take a pic of them too.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I wonder if using the wrong screws could have caused a problem? I sometimes come across jobs where the builders have used square head non drywall screws, and they tear the **** out of the face paper instead of gripping it tight like a proper drywall screw


 
OMG You too, Those bloody square head screws are for electrical fittings, They have little ridges on the back of the countersunk to bite into plastic, Not drywall, One supply store here was carring them for a while, How oh how the f#ck can builders put in hundreds of screws and watch every one rip the face and bur it up???????? Recipe for screw popping nightmare, I demonstrated in store what those screws do to board and told them never to sell them with drywall and get rid of them, They listened and did, Stupied F#ckers:furious::furious::furious:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> OMG You too, Those bloody square head screws are for electrical fittings, They have little ridges on the back of the countersunk to bite into plastic, Not drywall, One supply store here was carring them for a while, How oh how the f#ck can builders put in hundreds of screws and watch every one rip the face and bur it up???????? Recipe for screw popping nightmare, I demonstrated in store what those screws do to board and told them never to sell them with drywall and get rid of them, They listened and did, Stupied F#ckers:furious::furious::furious:


I wished I had photos of this job I did once for a woman who was a former neighbour of mine, she'd got the husband of one of her work mates to line her bathroom with drywall. I arrived to stop it up, looked up at the ceiling, and what did I see along the butt joint going right through the middle of the ceiling?, millions of gib clouts, and the wood must have been hard , and do you know how I could tell? because he'd hammered them all in half way then bent them over! FFS!!!:furious: There was a nail every 15mm I kid you not..
All the sheet of drywall were "rattly" as he'd used no glue...normally I'd shove a few screws in and proceed but this job was like nothing I'd even encountered before...I had to ring her up and tell her the whole room would need re screwed...:yes:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

I used to do skyline garage cottages in the early days, the truss and ceiling batten spacing was huge, it was all clouts back then with no glue and when they hammer the clouts in the timber would spring because of the wide spacing..... I don't know how the ceilings stayed up.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> ..... I don't know how the ceilings stayed up.


I can, they're called light fixtures 

Seriously though with all the Earthquakes we've been having I can just imagine the drywall peeling itself off the ceiling one day in a continuous sheet ..


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## noone (Jul 2, 2012)

First day back at that site. Had a good look at the walls today. Drywall does'nt move when pushed and only accent walls were repatched. The tape work is terrible and the window and darker wall magnify their workmanship. Vertical joints and u can feel everyone of them. Humped. Almost everyplace a screw was put had to have another coat of mud. We only did what the gc wanted us to do. No moisture meters were used. My boss says he WILL be paid for the extras, and i'm paid by the hour so heh, i'm happy. Lol thanks to all. Information was and will b helpful. Ant changes and i will post them. I will post a few pics in a couple of days. Were real busy and i'm off to another job for a few days. Thanks again


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

noone said:


> First day back at that site. Had a good look at the walls today. Drywall does'nt move when pushed and only accent walls were repatched. The tape work is terrible and the window and darker wall magnify their workmanship. Vertical joints and u can feel everyone of them. Humped. Almost everyplace a screw was put had to have another coat of mud. We only did what the gc wanted us to do. No moisture meters were used. My boss says he WILL be paid for the extras, and i'm paid by the hour so heh, i'm happy. Lol thanks to all. Information was and will b helpful. Ant changes and i will post them. I will post a few pics in a couple of days. Were real busy and i'm off to another job for a few days. Thanks again


 That job was sprayed down with a water hose...Now it's drying out and the board shrinking ..causing the seams @ butts to buckle..

I have seen this happen ...Painters with a new toy ...Without any experience...


DRYWALL....DRYWALL....Key word.....DRY!


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

Trim-Tex said:


> The bigger the dimensional lumber the wetter it is internally and the more it shrinks with size. Example a high moisture content 2x4" (1.5" x 3.5") can shrink 1/16 (.062) Of an inch.
> 
> a 2x6" (1.5" x 5.5") can shrink as much as 3/16 (.187) = 3 times as much as a 2x4
> 
> ...


 
very good info!:thumbsup: you need to post this on your web sight !!! 
maybe this will help people understand that when they get screw pops it's not that the hangers hung the board wrong or the finishers didnt mud them right.....i get so sick of this being blamed on us "the hangers/finishers"


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## noone (Jul 2, 2012)

I guess us painters made all their tape joints swell also. Only they did'nt dry down. Tapers look like a bunch of kids. Quit blaming the painters for ur shabby work moore! Probably your crew in there.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

noone said:


> I guess us painters made all their tape joints swell also. Only they did'nt dry down. Tapers look like a bunch of kids. Quit blaming the painters for ur shabby work moore! Probably your crew in there.


Mate that is a silly statement to make. Moore does not run a crew,Moores work is his work.:yes: 
And have you seen the pictures of his work? To make a dumb statement like that I guess no. Have a look and get back to us eh.

There are some shabby tapers (mudders) we will all acknowledge that, but Moore aint one of them.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

noone said:


> I guess us painters made all their tape joints swell also. Only they did'nt dry down. Tapers look like a bunch of kids. Quit blaming the painters for ur shabby work moore! Probably your crew in there.


Ya....I'm just gonna let that one slide...
You're lucky I just woke up and am still half asleep.
Maybe when you get more than 4 posts on the website and you take a look at some of everyone's finished work you'll change your attitude.
Especially because we all didn't simply join this site because we had a problem that needed to be fixed. :whistling2:
We all just love what we do so much that when we get home from a long day of work, we want to talk about it some more!

Moore's one of the most experienced tapers I know.
You'd only be so lucky to paint behind him.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

noone said:


> I guess us painters made all their tape joints swell also. Only they did'nt dry down. Tapers look like a bunch of kids. Quit blaming the painters for ur shabby work moore! Probably your crew in there.


 noone=your BOSS should be able to determine if the walls are ready for paint before he paints. If a guy just keeps painting along knowing the walls are not ready then he is looking for MORE $$$ cause painting and repainting etc. dont pay P.S. You owe someone an apology:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

noone said:


> I guess us painters made all their tape joints swell also. Only they did'nt dry down. Tapers look like a bunch of kids. Quit blaming the painters for ur shabby work moore! Probably your crew in there.


 Heres some pics of a home I DID NOT DO!
The h/o called me to flatten out a bedroom ceiling.
Do some touch up, and wrap an arch in the master bath.

The d/c spray primed this home [I think he subbed it out] 
He called this a L-5 . It was not an L-5 ...Was just a primer coat.
It was sprayed on so thick It pooled up..like when the tide goes out and leaves ripples in the sand..That's about what it looked like.
runs too...no back roll.. every field screw is shallow..every seam ceilings and walls are speed bumps...

LOOK! I'm not knocking this guy!! The h/o was pissed at him ,and said he wasn't to step foot back in her home..but at the same time the d/cs two sons were laying the hardwood floors:blink:
wearing his co. shirts..

when I walked into the master bath ..the tile floor was covered with scrap rock CERTAINTEED! [variable]
This home was hung and finished in the winter with the heat pump running..but to what degree[variable] 
Did this d/c think a self leveling prime could act as a skim over his block coat? or did he not take the time to flare out those high shoulders..OR did he have a nice finish on this 6,500 sq ft home untill the spray guy soaked it down? I don't know..
But I can tell you this ..The drywall work in this 1 million dollar home looks like ass. Imo..It was a combination of a not so good finish and high moisture content due to the spray..jmo!!

Iv'e had my share of homes go to chit too.. The hardwood floors opened up in a few areas after the h/o moved in and the floor guys told them it was a lack of moisture..The h/o bought 2 huge humidifers then run them in the basement for a straght 5 months.
till water was dripping from the floor joist..[ you do the math]

Had a home loaded with wet rock about 5 years agoe ..The hangers were bitchin about how heavy the rock was ..I went over to see what the animals were pissin about ,,,the rock was soaked!! Could almost push you finger through it..I told the g/c to send this board back or we can hang it ..then let it set till it drys..but the h/o had a dead line at the bank ,,and the g/c said I was just to damn picky.. 
[you do the math]


Noone..We get blamed for everything!!! A mouse chits behind a wall
,,cricket behind the fridge... The h/os wife is 2 months along ..OH Never mind that ,,, 99% of call backs are for the drywall man.
bad lumber[wet / green] factory trusses [wet / green] Insufficient heating ..just the all around ..leave it for the next guy bullchit comes into play each and every day... What makes you so special! Like Chris said.. you should of told the g/c ..this aint paint ready!! If I were that finisher and you the painter called me to say my work wasn't paint ready...I would drop my tools ,and be on my way!:thumbsup: DRYWALL.....KEY WORD.....DRY!:jester:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Heres some pics of a home I DID NOT DO!
> The h/o called me to flatten out a bedroom ceiling.
> Do some touch up, and wrap an arch in the master bath.
> 
> ...


So....did this "drywall contractor" run 3 coats with an 8" box wide open on that big ceiling??


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> So....did this "drywall contractor" run 3 coats with an 8" box wide open on that big ceiling??


 That's kinda what it looked like!:yes: The peaks on those seams were unreal..why they didn't crack is beyond me... 

I will be fixing a water leak there this Sunday [roof]


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> That's kinda what it looked like!:yes: The peaks on those seams were unreal..why they didn't crack is beyond me...
> 
> I will be fixing a water leak there this Sunday [roof]


That looks like a job for a 20" trowel :yes:

You should send that guy a check for $10, along with a note that says "I just wanted to thank you for all the work!"


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## noone (Jul 2, 2012)

My apologies to moore! I classify myself as a very good and smart sprayer. Meaning i know how to spray paint on evenly without making a mess of things including the walls. I spent 20yrs spraying aluminum to seal smoke damage after fires. I still don't believe the spraying had anything to do with it and l jus do what i am told and i do understand where chris is coming from about the painter trying to get more money now for touch ups. Y i never thought of this before i don't know but tomorrow i will check closely to what the taper says is ready to paint. I will report my findings tomorrow night. Thanks again to all, sry for offending anyone and i have followed many tapers whose work was superb. And their workmanship made my job look spectacular and thats because we both take pride in our work. Something we r seeing less of all the time! Have a good night guys.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

noone said:


> My apologies to moore! I classify myself as a very good and smart sprayer. Meaning i know how to spray paint on evenly without making a mess of things including the walls. I spent 20yrs spraying aluminum to seal smoke damage after fires. I still don't believe the spraying had anything to do with it and l jus do what i am told and i do understand where chris is coming from about the painter trying to get more money now for touch ups. Y i never thought of this before i don't know but tomorrow i will check closely to what the taper says is ready to paint. I will report my findings tomorrow night. Thanks again to all, sry for offending anyone and i have followed many tapers whose work was superb. And their workmanship made my job look spectacular and thats because we both take pride in our work. Something we r seeing less of all the time! Have a good night guys.


Well don't forget your on a site where tapers hang out, so were going to defend our craft,,,,, but......

Once I over heard a drywall contractor say, only one out of 10 tapers is any good, and when you find one that is any good, don't let him know it:whistling2:

Maybe this taper your dealing with ,,,,, just sucks:blink:

Maybe he's a DWT member

Moose boy, where have you been working lately :jester:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Theres no need to apologize to me noone ..I've been with the same woman for 20 years ..You could'nt hurt my feelings If ya tried!

I was just telling you about the issues i've seen in my travels.
:thumbsup:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*moore*

20 yrs- thats a good one.


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