# Crazy joint crack - need advice



## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

Hey all, a customer has some workmanship issues I will fix up for him. Found some voids in butt joints and other root causes for all issues but this one:

Long horizontal crack running the entire length of the condo, which is about 70 feet. The ceilings are 16 feet and the crack is on a tapered joint 8 feet from the floor. There is a combination of tape centerline and tape edge hairline cracking, along with portions where the mesh is popping off. This crack is unique in the condo in terms or magnitude compared to the other repairs since it runs the entire length of the condo, but there is a break in the wall for a perpendicular partition, then the crack keeps going beyond the partition. After some excavation, I see remnants of what seem like at least one repair. There is some paper tape parts under mesh and a band of setting compound. It appears the original paper tape was cut out and replaced with mesh and hot mud. I can see the darker color of the hot mud. During exploration I cut some paper and created some fuzzies. The two panels are pretty tight together. It appears some lengths have a 1/8 gap. 

What should I do? The substrate is not going to be good in some areas as the paper in the taper is messed up in some areas. Should I try to stabilize the wallboard with some type of penetrating primer before back filling? I don't want this crack coming back. 

-R


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Repair it the best you know how, but don't guarantee anything under the circumstances.


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## spacklinfool (Sep 23, 2011)

cut out whatever you can, order some vario, moisten the area and finish with vario, no tape and no call backs!! wa-la!! done then paint!!


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## Shelwyn (Apr 10, 2015)

I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure without seeing. It sounds like the drywall doesn't have enough screws. When temperature changes the home expands tightens up again when it's cold. I've seen jobs like that before and fixing them isn't complicated but it can be a lot of work.

I'd like to say again I'm not sure you should have posted a picture but I think the drywall isn't secure and the home shifting might be cracking. Again I have no idea I don't know what it actually looks like just going off some text.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Steel beam??


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Tell ya d-bond brown bag, kut v groove filler up with d-bond tape with d-bond,

Problem solved


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Tell ya d-bond brown bag, kut v groove filler up with d-bond tape with d-bond,
> 
> Problem solved


But If this is the second time It's cracked There must be something going on with the frame . If thirds a charm I'd be surprised .


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

View attachment 24729


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Give them what they want. Fix it, get paid, make no guarantees so you don't have to fix it for free in six months.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Back block it, Glue board onto the back of the crack if you can access the ceiling space, Then sand all hell out of the cracked area, fibafuse it and trowel it out, Done, it wont crack again.

Or can you get invisa back clips, Load it up with those then repair it.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Install USG 093 control joint and solve the problem. Explain what the control joint looks like and ask them if it is acceptable. This would be a more appropriate solution to allow the shifting to occur. It can be found at either SF Gravel or CalPly.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Expansion Bead should have been used for that situation. Offer that as fix
http://www.trim-tex.com/products/drywall-accessories/commercial-beads/expansion-beads/


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

spacklinfool said:


> cut out whatever you can, order some vario, moisten the area and finish with , no tape and no call backs!! wa-la!! done then paint!!


Won't work to much movement vario is not that flexable


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

V groove pine!! :thumbsup:


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## 30yrdrywaller (May 27, 2011)

When we install the board, any wall over 8' using 48" board or 9' with 54" board we leave about 1/8" to 1/4" gap between tapers, prefill with hot mud then tape over it. The way lumber shrinks up nowadays if you don't do this it will either ridge or crack. Pretty much the same idea as the old SW sheetrock. My second guess would be someone taped it with fiberglass tape & air dry mud. This will very often create hairline cracks. I that's the case, you can go over the crack with paper tape, build it out & go from there. We drywall in Wisconsin where we have all the issues, heat, cold, humidity, etc. Have not had any problems using the gap method.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*Thanks*



MrWillys said:


> Install USG 093 control joint and solve the problem. Explain what the control joint looks like and ask them if it is acceptable. This would be a more appropriate solution to allow the shifting to occur. It can be found at either SF Gravel or CalPly.


Good idea. A couple questions:

1) I would need to butt two strips together as the wall is very long. Any tips ?
2) The wall is an exterior fire rated wall. I can't find a 1 or 2 hour fire rated expansion joint assembly where the tapered seam is perpendicular to the studs. It looks like the expansion joints are usually backed with a strip of board behind the expansion joint. I guess I could inject some fire stop behind the joint - just not sure about it. Have you seen something like this before?


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



30yrdrywaller said:


> When we install the board, any wall over 8' using 48" board or 9' with 54" board we leave about 1/8" to 1/4" gap between tapers, prefill with hot mud then tape over it. The way lumber shrinks up nowadays if you don't do this it will either ridge or crack. Pretty much the same idea as the old SW sheetrock. My second guess would be someone taped it with fiberglass tape & air dry mud. This will very often create hairline cracks. I that's the case, you can go over the crack with paper tape, build it out & go from there. We drywall in Wisconsin where we have all the issues, heat, cold, humidity, etc. Have not had any problems using the gap method.


I think you are right about both the dry mud and gaps. There is some ridging on other joints. The joint I am working on sure seemed to have a combination of issues. If portions of the joint I'm fixing have very tight joints, do you think it makes sense to make a gap, which would then compromise the paper edge of the board? It's pretty much like a butt joint at that point.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



spacklinfool said:


> cut out whatever you can, order some vario, moisten the area and finish with vario, no tape and no call backs!! wa-la!! done then paint!!


Interesting product. Can you embed paper take in it if desired? I really want to nuke this problem. I'm not sure where to buy it and the website is circa 2007. LOL. Any ideas where to buy?


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*Thanks*



Shelwyn said:


> I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure without seeing. It sounds like the drywall doesn't have enough screws. When temperature changes the home expands tightens up again when it's cold. I've seen jobs like that before and fixing them isn't complicated but it can be a lot of work.
> 
> I'd like to say again I'm not sure you should have posted a picture but I think the drywall isn't secure and the home shifting might be cracking. Again I have no idea I don't know what it actually looks like just going off some text.


Good call. After further exploration, I did find 1" screws trying to secure 5/8ths board. There are a lot of issues with this job. I'm going to recommend new screws on the entire wall. In addition to the screws, it appears the original mud was dry and there were large voids under butt joints. Very poor.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

robinasu said:


> Good idea. A couple questions:
> 
> 1) I would need to butt two strips together as the wall is very long. Any tips ?
> 2) The wall is an exterior fire rated wall. I can't find a 1 or 2 hour fire rated expansion joint assembly where the tapered seam is perpendicular to the studs. It looks like the expansion joints are usually backed with a strip of board behind the expansion joint. I guess I could inject some fire stop behind the joint - just not sure about it. Have you seen something like this before?


I would butt them together and spread some caulking over the joints.

http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/234-08.pdf


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



cazna said:


> Back block it, Glue board onto the back of the crack if you can access the ceiling space, Then sand all hell out of the cracked area, fibafuse it and trowel it out, Done, it wont crack again.
> 
> Or can you get invisa back clips, Load it up with those then repair it.


I may have to do this if I can't get comfortable with any other solutions. It will be a big PITA.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*thanks*



MrWillys said:


> I would butt them together and spread some caulking over the joints.
> 
> http://www.gypsum.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/234-08.pdf


Ok, I see what you mean on the bottom of the last page. I will be a much bigger job to install that strip behind the joint - but maybe necessary. Thanks.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*Summary*

So, in summary here is what I've found:

1) 1" screws securing 5/8" board. No good.
2) It appears the original mud was dry or some other condition caused portions of the original tape job to lose adhesion.
3) The second repair using hot much and fiberglass went over some sections of old, poorly adhering tape.
4) Voids under some butt joints

Is there a product you guys have used to increase mud bonding strength?

I'm thinking of screwing the entire wall, grinding out the taper, V groove all joints, pre-fill with Durabond, tape with durabond, then cover with wide fibafuse and green top.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Taping with setting mud has the best adhesion. I think it's USG Red Dot.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> Taping with setting mud has the best adhesion. I think it's USG Red Dot.


Tape coat with ruco 90 min set .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NxrhghDw0


Tape coat with A/P .. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3G-esEJLXU


Both were on the same home with heat pump running at 70 + degrees .


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

moore said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NxrhghDw0&autoplay=1


 great tune


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

Is there a product you guys have used to increase mud bonding strength?


I add Mud Maxx (a Trim Tex product) to my mud for a much better bond.


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

Wimpy65 said:


> Is there a product you guys have used to increase mud bonding strength?
> 
> 
> I add Mud Maxx (a Trim Tex product) to my mud for a much better bond.


Ever added it to setting compound?


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

*vario*



spacklinfool said:


> cut out whatever you can, order some vario, moisten the area and finish with vario, no tape and no call backs!! wa-la!! done then paint!!


How hard is vario when set and can I tape it anyway?


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

robinasu said:


> Ever added it to setting compound?


Yes, I always add it to my Durabond for prefilling, my USG green lid for taping, and any Easy Sand I use for patching.


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

install a expansion joint. its expanding, or maybe ask nasa.


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

or get some expansion tape. lol


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)




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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

johnmeto said:


> Hey I suggest you are going good but be sure that you this in the right way so that it can last long for maximum time.


Thanks for the support!


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## robinasu (Feb 27, 2012)

johnmeto said:


> Hey I suggest you are going good but be sure that you this in the right way so that it can last long for maximum time.


Thanks for the support!


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

I have to wonder some times if we are all on the same page


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> I have to wonder some times if we are all on the same page


I know ....right? .... that guys got to go. HEY FR8!!!!


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

I would of been paid by now.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Which guy? Johnmeto?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

fr8train said:


> Which guy? Johnmeto?


:yes::yes::yes:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I take it that I'm not the only one that's noticed his phrasing isn't quite right. And he's possibly a bot?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

fr8train said:


> I take it that I'm not the only one that's noticed his phrasing isn't quite right. And he's possibly a bot?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


 I didn't notice and was wondering why he was getting singled out?? Now I get it.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

johnmeto said:


> Hey I suggest you are going good but be sure that you this in the right way so that it can last long for maximum time.


I bought a boat and the sky was blue and you are great.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Sometimes johnmeto does make opinionated comments pertaining to a thread. Can a bot do that?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Sometimes johnmeto does make opinionated comments pertaining to a thread. Can a bot do that?


I got a feeling . That feeling that he can't speak English .

And he has never seen a board of rock . But That's just my opinion .


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Sometimes johnmeto does make opinionated comments pertaining to a thread. Can a bot do that?


Yeah, most of the time they are automated, but every now and then someone is in the driver's seat.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## goldie (May 9, 2014)

*vario*

Can someone explain what vario is? I googled it and got nothing...thanks
goldie


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

goldie said:


> Can someone explain what vario is? I googled it and got nothing...thanks
> goldie


To give you an idea.... http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/joint-compound-testers-needed-743/index16/


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

I would cut it out and check for movement. Hopefully your not on 3 foot on center with half inch broad.might have to add blocking...no mater what you use I would check why it cracked and not just mix up some Miracle mud and call it good.


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## silb (Jan 11, 2017)

^ That sounds like the best course of action to me


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## FinisherDave (Jan 21, 2017)

*A few solutions assuming some things*

1. This seems to be a long term problem. I'm guessing some movement in the structure of the building which means no drywall will ever hold this together. If this is the case, grab some expansion joint, cut out the crack and then mud it in. It will be a permanent gap but at least it will look good.

2. If you think the application of the compound and tape was suspect, V out the crack, blow it clean and then prefill with hot mud. Use either paper tape or that new fuzzy paper tape. Ive had issues with regular mesh in problem areas.

NOTE... if you can, crawl up above and screw in some pieces of plywood so that it spans the crack. More support may help


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

fuzzy tape = FIBA fuse


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

gordie said:


> fuzzy tape = FIBA fuse


Fibafuse is wonderful stuff! :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Who said mesh?


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Who said mesh?







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

That video pulling paper tape of the wall I have a hard time believing that is paper tape with ap mud. I could see if it was lightweight mud it would do that but it was done by a professional using AP mud it would not do that. I am a fiber fuse user and don't stick up for paper users that often but that paper tape that video comes off way too easy. If AP compound is whipped an applied correctly it will not come up that easy


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Wimpy65 said:


> Fibafuse is wonderful stuff! :yes:


I got a few rolls of fuse the other day and that crease in the middle has nearly gone!:thumbup: Looks like they did listen in the end!:thumbsup:


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

icerock drywall said:


> That video pulling paper tape of the wall I have a hard time believing that is paper tape with ap mud. I could see if it was lightweight mud it would do that but it was done by a professional using AP mud it would not do that. I am a fiber fuse user and don't stick up for paper users that often but that paper tape that video comes off way too easy. If AP compound is whipped an applied correctly it will not come up that easy


I've never ordered a box of AP in my life. Were my 35 years a waste of time? We always taped with taping and finished with topping.


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

MrWillys said:


> I've never ordered a box of AP in my life. Were my 35 years a waste of time? We always taped with taping and finished with topping.


If you go to a box store for a small order, sometimes AP is the best you can do for taping. We sometimes use AP for spraying orange peel or knockdown patches.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley_revisited said:


> If you go to a box store for a small order, sometimes AP is the best you can do for taping. We sometimes use AP for spraying orange peel or knockdown patches.


Here in Reno you can only get AP at Home Depot so i get your point. We have a CalPly drywall house that is my go to here. I can honestly say I've never used or ordered AP. Taping mud was powder in a sack when i was young and topping always came in a box that I remember. I used to chew out finishers if they put metal on with topping. IMO AP doesn't have as much adhesion as taping and shrinks too much for finishing. Spray texture patching I get though.

Off to the lake!


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