# New World Pricing Method



## evolve991

I priced a job the way I was told years ago- Materials/Hang/Finish in roughly equal thirds. Never even got a response,not even a request to drop the price a little. 

I've been subbing for too long,haven't bid a job in a long time. Are the labor prices really that low now? I've been getting 9 and 10 a sheet for basic work from a high end finisher for straight out hanging,no headaches,no responsibility beyond completing the hanging phase. I tacked on a few bucks for running the whole job and made sure I'd get my finisher paid well ( he's f-in AWEsome and worth it) but I get the feeling the customer was floored by the price.
I guess we're supposed to work for minimum wage these days? 
 THAT!!!!! I'm not giving filet mignon quality for dollar menu pay!!! I'll sit home first. And have before!


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## moore

Evolve .. It's just getting worse and worse !

I'm still charging the same price I was 10 years ago ..And when I give some H/OS a bid they look at me like I'm a crook! Most times they have already gotten 3 or 4 bids before mine [I find out later] Some of these D/Cs are paying the hangers $4.50 - $5 a board and the finishers $7-$8 .

If you think It's bad now!! Just wait 10 years or so.. When those little south American kids jump out into the trades. After you and I feed them Cloth them and shelter them. Pay for schooling and heath care. blah blah...

I was talking to a D/C that just retired at 62. He said he didn't want to.
But the prices are so low In the city of Richmond He had to hang It up .
He said It's gotten so bad there You can't make a living wage. 

You ever make your way down here Evolve I'll pay you $9-$10 a board for the high end ,cut-up,scaffold monkey chit!!! That's a fair price and about what I figure in for hanging ..depending on what It Is. 
It'll be a cold day In Hell before I stand there and barter with any H/O. I wont drop It a ****ing penny!!!! When the other guy Is nearly half my price . WHY IS THAT NOT A RED FLAG???


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## boco

Same here. Thats why I just started painted exteriors and doing epoxy floors. Too many cutthroat and low ball GCs around here. Its a good feeling when someone calls for a tape job and I say sorry I am booked. I may come out of semi retirement for say buck a ft (tape only).


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## lnidrywall

*New World Pricing Method*

How does $8.16 - $11.52 sound?


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## Dan the taper

What are the details on those $8.16 - $11.52 prices? Is that residential? Smoothwall? Ceiling heights?

Cost of living is a big factor, too. I've been hearing about some high prices for tapers in San Francisco, but the price for renting an apartment is astronomical.


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## desertmud

[QUOTE=

If you think It's bad now!! Just wait 10 years or so.. When those little south American kids jump out into the trades. After you and I feed them Cloth them and shelter them. Pay for schooling and heath care. blah blah...


Come on Moore. No reason to get political. We have to compete with many Hispanic contractors here in Arizona. Some are cheap and some aren't. Has nothing to do where you came from. I just lost a job to two white guys- guess what? The contractor called me back later and told me he wouldn't be using those guys anymore. 
Sorry to call you out on this one.


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## lnidrywall

$8.16 to $11.52 is for hanging. I'm located between Pittsburgh, PA and Columbus, OH. Most of our work is residential. Some of our work is for a couple of regional production builders based here in Ohio. Most of our work is for local custom builders. We stay busy year-round. We need more hangers!


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## P.A. ROCKER

Try materials times two and maybe add 15%, that should put you in the ballpark.


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## evolve991

Thanks guys :thumbsup: 
That 9/10 is for basic,flat out, only somewhat cut up residential.
I fully admit we're spoiled at that price, it's only 1 finisher who pays us that...and we mostly only do his work lately. We did some work for an insurance happy stickler/hirer of illegals last year,he paid 6 a sheet no matter the job. We treaded water a while before telling him to eat a whole bag of dixx. 

I also admit I started high because NO ONE gets thier first price these days. The guy finally did get back to me, I'm working with him on the price but it's still higher than most bids. We do a consistent level of quality ( it would take longer to unlearn the right way) and know we'd end up eating alot of free manhours fixing things we can't live with. 

Funny thing: Around here the immigrants have mostly gone legal and carry insurance/etc. They get about the same as us dinosaurs now,not that the going rate is great. But at least they committed to being citizens! I can't blame anyone for doing whatever to feed thier family....I'd probably do worse if forced to:yes: Um. Scratch that. I'd make professional Tea Party Republicans look downright kind and generous to support my family but I'm glad I can tough it out and do it honestly and mostly legally :whistling2:


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## lnidrywall

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Try materials times two and maybe add 15%, that should put you in the ballpark.


What! I'm paying .265 per sq. ft. for 1/2". Your saying you want .61 per sq. ft. to hang?


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## lnidrywall

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Try materials times two and maybe add 15%, that should put you in the ballpark.


I'm sorry, now I get it. Total material times two, plus 15-20% = total price. That is a good rule of thumb. Your post followed mine and I thought you were talking hang only.


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## chris

lnidrywall said:


> What! I'm paying .265 per sq. ft. for 1/2". Your saying you want .61 per sq. ft. to hang?


 Sounds more like 17 to 24 cents...


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## evolve991

To be honest guys I have always sucked at the admin side of my own business. My wife agreed to be my miracle worker a few times but younger kids and my hard head ruined that. On top of this math was never my strong class.

I'm more Sargeant than General :whistling2:

So believe it or not I've just started even breaking down 16s and 14s to a 12' board average. I need to flex the muscle under this advancing (? yeah) hairline and learn square footage or board footage unless I want to keep being SUBcontractor fulltime. 
Straight Up I'd rather hang a 12' high garage with double 5/8 than do paperwork but I was once told by a local builder "If ya wunna run wit da big dawgs....."

LNI I _was_ talking about 9 or 10 to hang. But for the job I bid I meant that I took material price and went slightly higher for both hanging and finishing so...yeah basically what you said...nevermind...wanted to clarify but didn't need to....see? I need to buy a new bizniss helmet :thumbsup: 

And I just want to thank,again, you guys who recommended me and who had my back on this thread. Makes me feel like a real business owner! Not just a glorified rock slinger.


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## moore

desertmud said:


> If you think It's bad now!! Just wait 10 years or so.. When those little south American kids jump out into the trades. After you and I feed them Cloth them and shelter them. Pay for schooling and heath care. blah blah...
> Come on Moore. No reason to get political. We have to compete with many Hispanic contractors here in Arizona. Some are cheap and some aren't. Has nothing to do where you came from. I just lost a job to two white guys- guess what? The contractor called me back later and told me he wouldn't be using those guys anymore.
> Sorry to call you out on this one.[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> I almost deleted that comment ..
> Your right! low ballers and hacks come in many shades..:yes:
> 
> I was listening to talk radio on the way to work a few days ago
> A guy was sayin how in 10 years from now there will only be white business owners in the building trades .. All the workers will be Spanish or South American ...It pissed me off a little . [ya know! The scared kind of pissed off!] But then I said the same thing 10 years ago..:whistling2:
> 
> I'm just gonna keep on trucking !! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


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## lnidrywall

chris said:


> Sounds more like 17 to 24 cents...


????


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## moore

lnidrywall said:


> ????


Do I half to do math?


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## desertmud

moore said:


> desertmud said:
> 
> 
> 
> I almost deleted that comment ..
> Your right! low ballers and hacks come in many shades..:yes:
> 
> I was listening to talk radio on the way to work a few days ago
> A guy was sayin how in 10 years from now there will only be white business owners in the building trades .. All the workers will be Spanish or South American ...It pissed me off a little . [ya know! The scared kind of pissed off!] But then I said the same thing 10 years ago..:whistling2:
> 
> I'm just gonna keep on trucking !! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> No Problem Moore. I think we all run into the same issues when bidding jobs. Believe me! I don't like low ballers either. The way I see it is if I can't get my share of work competing against and immigrant who doesn't speak English, then there's something wrong with my business model.
> Well, who wants to to work for cheap bastards anyway? Right?
Click to expand...


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## moore

desertmud said:


> moore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, who wants to to work for cheap bastards anyway? Right?
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU! And that's what it pretty much comes down to!
Click to expand...


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## chris

lnidrywall said:


> ????


 Thats what you pay to hang, youre talking 12s right


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## lnidrywall

*New World Pricing Method*



chris said:


> Thats what you pay to hang, youre talking 12s right


Yeah, We pay .17 to .24 per sq. ft. to hang, more if the job calls for it. I misunderstood P.A Rockers post, I thought he was talking about hanging prices, when he meant total job price.

I think we're all underpaid for what we do. I'm always pushing for more money. Every time I figure a custom job, I really try to figure as mush as I can for labor. You can only pay what the market will bear. We do it to ourselves.


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## evolve991

lnidrywall said:


> I think we're all underpaid for what we do. I'm always pushing for more money. Every time I figure a custom job, I really try to figure as mush as I can for labor. You can only pay what the market will bear. We do it to ourselves.


That's why I refuse to bid low when I'm asked for a price to hang. If you can't see a profit why even bother? 
There are now 2 classes of drywallers and the differences just keep adding up. Let the cut throats have the low pay,thier clients will either keep putting up with trashy work and weekly callbacks or they'll give the high dollar guys a shot. IMO if a guy is _that_ stingy I don't even want to waste my breath on him.


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## moore

evolve991 said:


> That's why I refuse to bid low when I'm asked for a price to hang. If you can't see a profit why even bother?
> There are now 2 classes of drywallers and the differences just keep adding up. Let the cut throats have the low pay,thier clients will either keep putting up with trashy work and weekly callbacks or they'll give the high dollar guys a shot. IMO if a guy is _that_ stingy I don't even want to waste my breath on him.


YEP! There are fussy G/Gs and G/Cs that really don't give a ****!


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## Mr.Brightstar

I bided a job yesterday. Red flags were waving as soon as I walked in the door. Drywall meets plaster on the ceiling in the main room throughout into the kitchen. Reinstall lath & cement Cove ceilings. Homeowner hang job gaps everywhere and every corner of drywall broke and flopping. Deck screws on a few of the butt joints. Homeowner said if I give a good price He'll have me finish the basement. I'm not falling for that one again.

Anyway I give him my price and he says "that's too much ".he already had some one bid half my price. I moved a little, but he wanted me to match the price. No way! The job is a big PITA. I WONDER HOW MUCH THE OTHER GUY WILL DO THE BASEMENT FOR? 

I dont get all the jobs, but i get what i want for them. 




http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## SlimPickins

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Homeowner said if I give a good price He'll have me finish the basement. I'm not falling for that one again.


"Sweet Mr. Homeowner! I get to lose my a$$ twice!"


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## Mr.Brightstar

SlimPickins said:


> "Sweet Mr. Homeowner! I get to lose my a$$ twice!"



You know it slim. Haven't seen you on here in a while. I hope you have been staying busy.

I always give a fair and competitive bid. I charge what any other "Professional " tradesmen would charge when it comes to T&M. 


http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## SlimPickins

Mr.Brightstar said:


> You know it slim. Haven't seen you on here in a while. I hope you have been staying busy.
> 
> I always give a fair and competitive bid. I charge what any other "Professional " tradesmen would charge when it comes to T&M.
> 
> 
> http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


I've been as busy as I want to be and focusing on making some life changes, I'm not all that interested in continuing to do drywall but I have been taking jobs that are too good to pass up (ie. really good money). I bid what I want to do a job...competitive be damned. I have higher rates for repair work, and since people often ask me to do jobs based on a high level of difficulty I charge a premium....it helps maintain the illusion that I am good at what I do:whistling2:


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## Nick Harmon

desertmud said:


> If you think It's bad now!! Just wait 10 years or so.. When those little south American kids jump out into the trades. After you and I feed them Cloth them and shelter them. Pay for schooling and heath care. blah blah...
> Come on Moore. No reason to get political. We have to compete with many Hispanic contractors here in Arizona. Some are cheap and some aren't. Has nothing to do where you came from. I just lost a job to two white guys- guess what? The contractor called me back later and told me he wouldn't be using those guys anymore.
> Sorry to call you out on this one.[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with this, people are people. Yes there are people living in the United States illegally. we have lots of Hispanics here too. I've hired a fair amount of both. Statistically, hispanics show up and work hard. I've had problems with the white guys getting drunk, not showing up, and feeling too entitled to do the work all the while complaining about the Hispanics taking all their work. People are people. When I hire I don't take race into consideration. I look for if they have a car, good attitude, and skills. Also the younger guys seem to be more trainable.
Click to expand...


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## Mr.Brightstar

You're absolutely right Nick. 




http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## Mr.Brightstar

SlimPickins said:


> I've been as busy as I want to be and focusing on making some life changes, I'm not all that interested in continuing to do drywall but I have been taking jobs that are too good to pass up (ie. really good money). I bid what I want to do a job...competitive be damned. I have higher rates for repair work, and since people often ask me to do jobs based on a high level of difficulty I charge a premium....it helps maintain the illusion that I am good at what I do:whistling2:



I'm in the process of changing things up right now too. New year, new system, new people. Drywall still new to me so I'm still trying to find out how deep this rabbit hole goes. I'll be subbing out most my drywall next year. I got a few crews lined up. And I don't give a chit if they are white,black, Hispanic, or flying monkeys. Just get it ready to mud. 

As long as you're having fun at what you you're doing, then you have a better quality of life than most. Cheers to slim. 


http://youtu.be/R3RC9BjZj2I


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## evolve991

[ And I don't give a chit if they are white,black, Hispanic, or flying monkeys. Just get it ready to mud.] 


:thumbsup: Mr.B that's my stance too. I am _not_ racist or a bigot and I aint the type of "nonracist" that shove it on your face either, I treat people like people unless they cause me to dislike them. 

Skill makes a worker not skin color or country of origin. Do good work, pay your dues like the rest of us and don't steal. 
Respect gets Respect. Disrespect gets....ugly.....

As for the pricing fiasco: I dropped over 2G on a custom that went ultra custom _after my bid_ and was naive enough to go ahead and do the job. Never again. My Price is my Price. And each and everything not agreed on or changed will _start_ at a Buck per aggravation plus prevailing labor per sheet/hour/etc


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## thefinisher

I completely agree about the Hispanics. However if I could get an American crew to do the same quality at the same pace I would hire them first. It helps to not have to deal with the language barrier sometimes although I don't really have that much problems with my guys understanding. I still have yet to see a good white drywall finisher in a long time. All the ones around here now are hacks or too old to do production.


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> I still have yet to see a good white drywall finisher in a long time.


They're out there! Your just not willing to pay them what they're worth.

You Ain't fooling me. The Spanish help you win the bid! I know this TF Cause on a rare occasion I bid against you runners . 

The difference between you and I ..Is I pay the Spanish the exact same as I pay the local boys. The only difference between the two Is the local boys are slower and do a neat clean job ...Where the Spanish are faster ,,but leave a'lot to be desired !


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> They're out there! Your just not willing to pay them what they're worth.
> 
> You Ain't fooling me. The Spanish help you win the bid! I know this TF Cause on a rare occasion I bid against you runners .
> 
> The difference between you and I ..Is I pay the Spanish the exact same as I pay the local boys. The only difference between the two Is the local boys are slower and do a neat clean job ...Where the Spanish are faster ,,but leave a'lot to be desired !


Moore you have a sad misconception of the Hispanics that we use. It is almost like you have some hate for the Hispanics.... I'm also not sure what a runner is but I'm sure your wrong there too. We don't have any "local boys" anymore. Over the past decade we haven't had any white crews...... I haven't evendors heard of one working. If they are they are doing additions or small jobs, not big customs. I have some really good finish crews.... you would be surprised.


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## evolve991

OK Finisher don't make me regret agreeing with ya. Over the past few years I keep hearing how "White" drywallers just don't wanna work. BULL****. We're White and we WORK. Our main source of work is a White finisher and his main man is a Black guy. Those 2 are the best finishers I've met in person. This is not to say I don't know Spanish hangers or finishers worth thier pay because I do. BUT the difference around here IS the pay. I,myself,would pay any drywaller what they are worth no matter thier heritage but I'm an oddball here.
I'm just tired of the misconceptions on BOTH ends. Whites WILL still work for DECENT PAY and Spanish CAN do good work but everyone wants to go with the popular opinions instead of reality. 

As for big customs the only reason the Spanish get them is because everyone wants 500 sheet ultra customs done in 2 days and they have the big crews to do it AND because nobody wants to PAY for what they build anymore. We aren't hanging high curved angled vaulted houses at square flat spec prices. 

We old school White rockers are being put out of business NOT by harder working Hispanics but by greedy hypocrites who pay Hispanics low dollar while insisting they not be allowed to become tax paying citizens.

This "Race" crap is all sleight of hand to keep us at each others throats.


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## Nick Harmon

evolve991 said:


> OK Finisher don't make me regret agreeing with ya. Over the past few years I keep hearing how "White" drywallers just don't wanna work. BULL****. We're White and we WORK. Our main source of work is a White finisher and his main man is a Black guy. Those 2 are the best finishers I've met in person. This is not to say I don't know Spanish hangers or finishers worth thier pay because I do. BUT the difference around here IS the pay. I,myself,would pay any drywaller what they are worth no matter thier heritage but I'm an oddball here.
> I'm just tired of the misconceptions on BOTH ends. Whites WILL still work for DECENT PAY and Spanish CAN do good work but everyone wants to go with the popular opinions instead of reality.
> 
> As for big customs the only reason the Spanish get them is because everyone wants 500 sheet ultra customs done in 2 days and they have the big crews to do it AND because nobody wants to PAY for what they build anymore. We aren't hanging high curved angled vaulted houses at square flat spec prices.
> 
> We old school White rockers are being put out of business NOT by harder working Hispanics but by greedy hypocrites who pay Hispanics low dollar while insisting they not be allowed to become tax paying citizens.
> 
> This "Race" crap is all sleight of hand to keep us at each others throats.


Ahhh... The problem with the Drywall industry emerges. It's not new tools or poor mud quality, although all theses issues are valid, it's about contractor greed. Although it's difficult to combat greed, Drywallers have an amazing commodity in the skill sets we've spent lifetimes to acquire. The drywall industry needs to evolve.


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## thefinisher

evolve991 said:


> OK Finisher don't make me regret agreeing with ya. Over the past few years I keep hearing how "White" drywallers just don't wanna work. BULL****. We're White and we WORK. Our main source of work is a White finisher and his main man is a Black guy. Those 2 are the best finishers I've met in person. This is not to say I don't know Spanish hangers or finishers worth thier pay because I do. BUT the difference around here IS the pay. I,myself,would pay any drywaller what they are worth no matter thier heritage but I'm an oddball here.
> I'm just tired of the misconceptions on BOTH ends. Whites WILL still work for DECENT PAY and Spanish CAN do good work but everyone wants to go with the popular opinions instead of reality.
> 
> As for big customs the only reason the Spanish get them is because everyone wants 500 sheet ultra customs done in 2 days and they have the big crews to do it AND because nobody wants to PAY for what they build anymore. We aren't hanging high curved angled vaulted houses at square flat spec prices.
> 
> We old school White rockers are being put out of business NOT by harder working Hispanics but by greedy hypocrites who pay Hispanics low dollar while insisting they not be allowed to become tax paying citizens.
> 
> This "Race" crap is all sleight of hand to keep us at each others throats.


I didn't say anything about whites/blacks not wanting to work, its just that they don't exist anymore around here. Have seen a black crew doing some work and I would never hire that particular crew as their finish was terrible. I would hire a good white crew faster than you can blink, but I'm not going to pay them more than than they are worth or what the going rate is. My dad had one of the last remaining white crews in our area. The rate back then was $3.50-$4 a board for finishing. Now it is around $6. So we are paying the mexicans more than "We" were making. And our mexicans don't have "big" crews. Just did a 575 board house last week. 3 hangers hung it with glue and 2 finishers finished the house.... Those same 2 finishers finished another 375 sheet house in the same week. And they are really good finishers. If a white crew came up to me asking for work I would give them a chance but they better be able to match the quality I am already getting. I think there is a stigma out there branding work done by mexicans as sub par because they work for "X" amount. The mexicans that work around here wont even do a job if they dont make enough money. Why? because they know they are worth it. Also, our area was dominated by hand tapers forever, heck that is how I grew up finishing. Only my dad ran a banjo and was looked at funny for doing so. When the mexicans showed up with their banjos, bazookas, and boxes people automatically backlashed saying that the machine work is inferior and that they get the work done too fast so it couldn't be quality. What was really going on is they couldn't admit that the new workforce was just as good as they were but way faster. Now, hand tapers aren't even hired because they are too slow :yes:. I will consistently hire the best crew possible which right now are the hispanic crews. If any of you white guys want to come down here and take their spot feel free to do so. I will hire you no questions asked. Will even pay you a $1 more per board if you think your better than what I'm already using.


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Just did a 575 board house last week. 3 hangers hung it with glue and 2 finishers finished the house.... Those same 2 finishers finished another 375 sheet house in the same week. .


That's 2 finishers finishing out 950 boards in 1 week. 

I don't see how that's possible . Machine or not. What's gonna happen weeks later when that mud that hasn't had a chance to cure yet Starts to dry out beneath the paint?? I'm guessing this Is when the two ''In house'' Guys are called in ? Oh my!!


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## Corey The Taper

Do your finishers even sleep wtf


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> That's 2 finishers finishing out 950 boards in 1 week.
> 
> I don't see how that's possible . Machine or not. What's gonna happen weeks later when that mud that hasn't had a chance to cure yet Starts to dry out beneath the paint?? I'm guessing this Is when the two ''In house'' Guys are called in ? Oh my!!


Will admit that was in about 9 days. They finished one completely out in a week and had the other bedded, so they skimmed it the next two days. Alot of that was taped with 210 durabond so no problems there. And the two in house guys would be me and my dad right now lol. This is just finishing btw, not sanded.


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## moore

thefinisher said:


> Will admit that was in about 9 days. They finished one completely out in a week and had the other bedded, so they skimmed it the next two days. Alot of that was taped with 210 durabond so no problems there. And the two in house guys would be me and my dad right now lol. This is just finishing btw, not sanded.


Do you sand?


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## evolve991

OK Finisher point taken. I get a little :furious: over the issue. 
I don't expect to be paid more than we're worth _and_ if the Mexicans,El Salvadorans or Koreans for that matter are worth good pay I expect them to get it. IF they pay thier insurance,etc like we're expected to do. 

YES the Drywall Trade needs to evolve. Too many inconsistencies from bidding to sanding and everything in between. 
Most Hangers,and alot of Finishers, are skilled at more than just drywall. We end up fixing framing, insulation,halfazzed custom fiascos.....we drop garage doors,access stairs and anything else in the way and have to reinstall it all....

Contractor Greed: The people who *do the work* shouldn't be paid like common unskilled labors _especially_ when the Top Dog is driving a brand new truck and living like a Wall Street mogul. Not accusing anyone here of that but I personally know a few truckasses around here that think they're Donald Trump and thier guys are one bad job away from tent city. That is just F'ing *wrong!!!!*

As for how long we take to hang a job that depends on the level of readiness,the number of spectators/kids/dogs and how much re-framing we have to do. Another issue for the evolving of standards.


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## thefinisher

evolve991 said:


> OK Finisher point taken. I get a little :furious: over the issue.
> I don't expect to be paid more than we're worth _and_ if the Mexicans,El Salvadorans or Koreans for that matter are worth good pay I expect them to get it. IF they pay thier insurance,etc like we're expected to do.
> 
> YES the Drywall Trade needs to evolve. Too many inconsistencies from bidding to sanding and everything in between.
> Most Hangers,and alot of Finishers, are skilled at more than just drywall. We end up fixing framing, insulation,halfazzed custom fiascos.....we drop garage doors,access stairs and anything else in the way and have to reinstall it all....
> 
> Contractor Greed: The people who *do the work* shouldn't be paid like common unskilled labors _especially_ when the Top Dog is driving a brand new truck and living like a Wall Street mogul. Not accusing anyone here of that but I personally know a few truckasses around here that think they're Donald Trump and thier guys are one bad job away from tent city. That is just F'ing *wrong!!!!*
> 
> As for how long we take to hang a job that depends on the level of readiness,the number of spectators/kids/dogs and how much re-framing we have to do. Another issue for the evolving of standards.


I agree with you. I believe we were on the same page the whole time. The drywall trade is paid like unskilled labor for some reason. Lord help you if you talk bad bout a dang trim carpenter though! I can say that all of my subs make more money than I do :thumbsup: I know this because I calculate what they make in a year, I write their checks during the year, and I write my own check lol so I know what everyone makes. It amazes me sometimes how builders treat our trade. They want everything perfect but will give the job away to someone else over a couple hundred bucks. I say let the cheap guys bid it cheaply because they will eventually fall unless they like living a low income life. That is why I keep trying to raise my prices and push better products and applications. It seems that people are responding to it more so than when I try to price something lower. Hopefully in 2015 I can up my labor prices again. Would be nice to do less jobs but make more money on each one. Can really focus on quality that way.


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> Do you sand?


Do I sand? Why yes I do :thumbsup:. I just don't sand our houses. I only sand my patches, touch ups, and additions/small jobs that I do on my own. To clarify we have hangers, finishers, and sanders. For some reason here the finish crews never sand. Been like that for a long time. I do have one crew that can and will sand their own work. It is actually that same 2 man crew I mentioned above. Generally they will only sand smaller jobs however. Our sanders make out pretty good I think though making $1.50 a board to sand when they can sand out 1500 sheets a week no problem


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## kcmudderman

Two years ago a major framing company got busted by ICE on a Monday morning and believe owners facing fed time. They did ATLEAST 60 percent of all framing here in Kansas City. 
It was so cool to see these big production builders who were making all the money have to pay fair price to the framers that trickled back in. It stopped residential building over night here in KC. Now all is busy again. 
Anyway it leveled the playing field for most the trades here and we actually making good money now. Got rid of the guys that we were trading money with and sticking to people who appreciate all the trips we come back and the warranty work we do.
Hope everyone is good, 😎


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## TAPERT2

*Buck a foot*



boco said:


> Same here. Thats why I just started painted exteriors and doing epoxy floors. Too many cutthroat and low ball GCs around here. Its a good feeling when someone calls for a tape job and I say sorry I am booked. I may come out of semi retirement for say buck a ft (tape only).


I moved up north here last year and as you said a $1.00 ft just to Tape
Is that ($1 per foot ) be ause you hand tape and not run tools ? Cuz im hearing a buck a foot up here and im like hows that in illinois i only got .25 ft as a sub running tools. So im thinking when i here a buck a ft to tape is cuz thats a hand finishing price. Any thoughts ppl


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## endo_alley

Here in Western Colorado, it seems there are two sets of standards, and an uneven playing field between American born workers and undocumented immigrant sub contractors. The American born person wishing to do business must provide the proper insurances. Hourly people must be paid a decent wage as full fledged employees. Taxes must be paid on earnings and profits. This is all as it should be in a community that cares about fair treatment of the workers. But the undocumented workers are allowed to take much of the residential work while running cash businesses. No records are kept. No employment taxes paid. Most towns have a couple of businesses that cash checks with little identification needed and no bank account needed. And they will also wire this money across national borders to other countries. So these guys can disperse greenback cash to their workers. The check cashing joints act as money launderers and are central to the entire economy that has emerged. This gives the undocumented business a 25% to 50% advantage over the homegrown contractor. If the undocumented contractor somehow is the object of IRS scrutiny, the parties simply change there names and social security numbers and move to a new town. And that is one reason why few young American born people wish to get in the trades these days.


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## embella plaster

Amen its how drywall is in aus to with the chinese immigrants they run cash business with nothing legitimate


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## P.E.I.Taper

No immigrant worker here in pei. but there are plenty of local who like to go in and bid jobs at half their value. when asked to compete, I say call them back before they are too busy


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## embella plaster

I think they all need a lesson in economics. They think by being cheap its a one off or will score work but it is a damaging effect the spirals down and brings all pricing expectations down and then when they finally realise there immagrant dream to be a gardener or a cleaner were left the true lovers of the trade making less then our skill is worth


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## Aussiecontractor

embella plaster said:


> Amen its how drywall is in aus to with the chinese immigrants they run cash business with nothing legitimate



Just the other week they deported about 15 Asian immigrants for working illegally as ceiling fixers....
The stories I've heard and the things I've had to fix is cray 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Batman

Finishers get paid by the board sometimes and not square ft? Hmm in my area hangers get paid 6-8$ per board, and finishers $1.00-1.50 per square ft plus extras for high work, fancy domes, etc.
If someone does 10000 square ft, which took the old 4 man crew I was a part of a week or so of 8-10 hour days, that's 10000-15000 bucks a week, minus pay for the help, and tapers here are 11-15 bucks an hour or so, so that's decent profit by my standards anyway. But I have no family to support and pay 450 month rent for my trailer all bills included. Being a loser- my advantage over the competition. . .


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## embella plaster

Wow and i complain when i get $40 per hour plus 10% superannuation lol


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## Shelwyn

Batman said:


> Being a loser- my advantage over the competition. . .


That's fantastic. I love that.


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