# vertical angles problems



## michel1949 (Jul 21, 2010)

hi there folks 
after a few months with bazooka on 8 feet walls
i can do standing flats (from floor to ceiling and cuts pretty good at the right place.
the problems i have are
when i do the angles from down to up i have to leave a lot of tape at the beginning to end up decent and the cutting part is not too bad
cause the tape drags its a good thing i have the 3 point creaser wheel from hardman cause with the original wheel it was a big problem

and have a lot of problems with the vertical since i am 5,6 should i get the bazooka extension?


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## michel1949 (Jul 21, 2010)

forgot to mention since its commercial jobs i am not alowed stilts


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

michel1949 said:


> hi there folks
> after a few months with bazooka on 8 feet walls
> i can do standing flats (from floor to ceiling and cuts pretty good at the right place.
> the problems i have are
> ...


 I leave about 5 or 6 inches of tape hanging out on verticals (thats up and down). actually, I hit the wall about 1/2 way between the wall flat and base, run it abit, till I get a few inches out of the zooka, then set it at the base and run it up to the ceiling. The zooka will always drag some tape, you have to learn how to anticipate how much is gonna drag for the lenght of the pull, and then just figure it that way,,, takes a little practice, but its not rocket surgery !!!!

For whore-azontials (thats how you remember which is which) I do the same, I strike abit in the top angle to get some tape hanging, then set it back into the 3-way and run it,,, again, you have to do it abit to get the hang of how much to leave hanging for the lenght of the run. Cause it is gonna drag abit.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

few points
get the bazooka low to the ground,horizontally one foot from floor
bend your knees.
this is over kill,but it sounds like your not getting enough pressure on the wheels,your probably coming in at your angles with your tube held at too much of a down ward angle,so over accent for awhile (tube low bend knees)till you get the feel for it.
plus all bazookas are not created equal,some have more drag than others.don't forget when ever you take your tube for a bath(car wash) to get that wheel spinning with the power washer,make her sound like a chain saw.Have tube in fill position when you do it also,it keeps your tube from stiffening up.
will (pussy) has just showed up here all drunk:furious:
his advice for you is get twenty years younger.
want me to punch him for you:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

oopps ,,,thought you were just talking uprights only,do you still got your wife working with you ?????if you do,get her to follow you with the roller,as soon as you come come out from a horizontal angle ,about a foot or so,get her to put the roller on the tape right away to hold it in place.
plus stand on a milk crate to start your tape.8 foot ceilings at your height is like doing nine foot ceilings for most guys.
and watch out for the safety guys if you use a milk crate these days:whistling2:


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

here is what works for me...and its just a pointer

for ALL angles, you should have your tube 90 degrees to the creaser....more or less you will get more drag...after you get about half to 60% of the angle tucked, you should be ok..another good pointer I got when I was green with the tube is use the filler neck at a pointer...when your looking down the tube, the filler neck will be your guide...when it comes to point in corners, that is when you stop and cut..it should be perfect length 99% of time

drag is only something you can get accustomed to in time because like the others have said, most if not all tubes are different..the more free you can get the spool to turn without back rolling, the better it will be for drag..you never said what tube you have, some like northstar/DM/columbia have adjustable clickers and you can tame it down...if not, you can kink the needle pin slightly to where the clicker wheel is looser....but that is a bandaid


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

just a word of thanks guys. I'm no all-star with the tube either and this has been a super review.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Having the mud mixed right, helps alot as well.. constancy.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> Having the mud mixed right, helps alot as well.. constancy.


very true as well


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> Having the mud mixed right, helps alot as well.. constancy.


 I agree with that!!!!!!!!! Thanks for bringing that up. If you mix your corner mud and when you look at it, your not sure,,,,,,,, add another 16oz of water.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

and if that's not enough add another 16oz


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I agree with that!!!!!!!!! Thanks for bringing that up. If you mix your corner mud and when you look at it, your not sure,,,,,,,, add another 16oz of water.


 I should say Tape itself is important as well. I kinda like the Marco tape.. runs good and is alittle cheaper than usg.
If you want a really nice job on the angles,, a banjo is tough to beat.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> If you want a really nice job on the angles,, a banjo is tough to beat.


Yep, I like being able to dial in just the right amount of mud from my banjo for corners.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

And if you're an hourly man, just tape them by hand. Forget the fast bazooka or messy banjo...:rockon:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Tim0282 said:


> And if you're an hourly man, just tape them by hand. Forget the fast bazooka or messy banjo...:rockon:


Well, I'm not messy with the banjo. Not overly fast with the bazooka, either. But when I use either one it gets done right, so there's no problems after (I use FibaFuse~!!!!!! :thumbup: - except for corners).

As for hourly, I am that. But the jobs that I'm given to run come in on time, or under.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Just tried FibaFuse for the first time this week. Seems like nice working tape. Kinda pricey, though.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> And if you're an hourly man, just tape them by hand. Forget the fast bazooka or messy banjo...:rockon:


Only the operator can decide how messy the banjo will run.. I like my banjo clean and running smooth at all times.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> Only the operator can decide how messy the banjo will run.. I like my banjo clean and running smooth at all times.


i still call mine a slop box
my banjo only comes out when absolutely necessary


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Tim0282 said:


> Just tried FibaFuse for the first time this week. Seems like nice working tape. Kinda pricey, though.


Price difference between Fiba and paper can be situation dependent. I like it a lot for the quicker drying time, and how the center doesn't seem to shrink in as much as paper, so the 1st coat after taping is usually almost finish quality, after sanding it for the last coat.

A # of jobs I've been on lately have had time sensitive completions, and I often 1st coat those at the same time I tape. Fiba's better drying lets me deliver on them better than paper.

I left a couple roles laying around my current job, in part to see how the long time taper I'm working with might use it, if at all. I saw him today looking at paper tape rolls, then the Fiba, then back at the paper. He finally grabbed the Fiba for whatever it was that he was doing.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I did notice it takes the mud different. The tape completely disappears in the mud. That is nice. And doesn't show that annoying "V" in the middle of the joint. Seems like a great product. In the scope of the job, the price difference is minimal. Haven't tried it on angles yet. Does it tear easy with the tools?


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Tim0282 said:


> Haven't tried it on angles yet. Does it tear easy with the tools?


I do get a bit squeamish with it when it comes to corners and using tools there. Even when using a knife there. I might get over it with time, as I use it more, but I try to still use paper on corners. Especially when there's a few or more corners.

One thing I do to get the corners dry enough in time in time sensitive jobs, is flush with a company supplied 3" Can-Am when taping. Then 3" with the Can-Am again, after the mud has shrunk back a bit and I lightly sand. The fairly thin mud coat that goes on with the 2nd coat doesn't seem to take long to dry when I do it like that, and it seems to give an acceptable finish.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> I should say Tape itself is important as well. I kinda like the Marco tape.. runs good and is alittle cheaper than usg.
> If you want a really nice job on the angles,, a banjo is tough to beat.


 Haven't tried Marco, don't think they sell it around here. I prefer the pro-form over the USG tape tho. Folks that think a banjo is messy are them that have a bad banjo or haven't learned to use it yet.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Haven't tried Marco, don't think they sell it around here. I prefer the pro-form over the USG tape tho. Folks that think a banjo is messy are them that have a bad banjo or haven't learned to use it yet.


 One of the best finishers I know of, runs a banjo, he can run it all day and not get a speck of mud on his clothes. wears gloves , and keeps the banjo clean .Very neat finisher. I always speak highly of him .. just a super great guy.


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## michel1949 (Jul 21, 2010)

its true that i am a biginner
but why use a banjo or a slob box if you have a bazooka
so far my stand up flats are not too bad with the accuracy of cutting at 90 %
and no tape laying on the floor
the stand up angles with a foot on the floor with the accuracy of cutting at 90 %
guess all it takes is practice and i will get the bazooka extension and see if i can do the vertical angles
as for the boxes the 10 and 12 inches with standing up flats is very good
dint try horizontals yet since i am doing ommercial work

as for 2 bucks question about my wife yes she still works with me the only things that have change is she wants 600.00 a week she does a good jobs on sanding, nails with the 2 and 3 inches nail spotters and she tapes a bit like the butts beside the doors and she covers them by hand


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## michel1949 (Jul 21, 2010)

there was a guy working at the same place with a slob box

up the scaffold to put the tapes on flats
and back up to wipe he said he was fast he can do 6 rooms a day
with the bazzoka i can do 16 and beleive me hes dirty at the end of the day


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

$600 a week you better fire her !!!!!!!
well guess you should pay her then,or no more nooky nooky for you,and most important of all,you'll get stuck sanding:yes:
tell her will and I say she's worth every penny:thumbup:
and say hi


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

michel1949 said:


> its true that i am a biginner
> but why use a banjo or a slob box if you have a bazooka
> so far my stand up flats are not too bad with the accuracy of cutting at 90 %
> and no tape laying on the floor
> ...


 Every tool has a place and a purpose. Lets say you are topping out firewall for smoke break. Nothing beats a banjo there. A bazooka would be a pain in the butt up there, no? A banjo is just as fast as a bazooka, except it doesn't hold as much mud, therefore making it "slower" by default. Its advantage is when you have a small job, like a bathroom re-model, you can use a banjo and your out in less time than it takes to set a bazooka up. BUt don't think that a banjo is a SLOW tool. You can run a box of tape through it in a day on residential, that ain't slow friend.:thumbsup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Every tool has a place and a purpose. Lets say you are topping out firewall for smoke break. Nothing beats a banjo there. A bazooka would be a pain in the butt up there, no? A banjo is just as fast as a bazooka, except it doesn't hold as much mud, therefore making it "slower" by default. Its advantage is when you have a small job, like a bathroom re-model, you can use a banjo and your out in less time than it takes to set a bazooka up. BUt don't think that a banjo is a SLOW tool. You can run a box of tape through it in a day on residential, that ain't slow friend.:thumbsup:


I can't run a box of tape in a day with a banjo. But I can easily keep someone wiping, and even stop to give them a hand.

When figuring in taping time with a banjo, I also factor in such things as tapes aren't overlapped in areas that aren't recessed (at least I don't do it), so easier to finish; tapes are better cut to the right lengths, so can finish out nicer in places; just the right amount of mud can be dialed in for angles, so they flush nice and need just a light flush to finish. In a time squeeze, I've even just flushed the one time, and have gotten away with it. And I don't clean it regularly - just put and pull it out of its bag, when I need it - whether that's for only a few tapes at times, or something more substantial that I still don't care to use a bazooka on. And it doesn't break down.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

JustMe said:


> I can't run a box of tape in a day with a banjo. But I can easily keep someone wiping, and even stop to give them a hand.
> 
> When figuring in taping time with a banjo, I also factor in such things as tapes aren't overlapped in areas that aren't recessed (at least I don't do it), so easier to finish; tapes are better cut to the right lengths, so can finish out nicer in places; just the right amount of mud can be dialed in for angles, so they flush nice and need just a light flush to finish. In a time squeeze, I've even just flushed the one time, and have gotten away with it. And I don't clean it regularly - just put and pull it out of its bag, when I need it - whether that's for only a few tapes at times, or something more substantial that I still don't care to use a bazooka on. And it doesn't break down.


 Well said, I agree with everything in your post, cept you can't run a box of tape in a day,,,,,, get off your butt and get to work, if I can, you can too.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Well said, I agree with everything in your post, cept you can't run a box of tape in a day,,,,,, get off your butt and get to work, if I can, you can too.


To run a box of tapes in a day with my banjo, I'd need some of your easy *ssed jobs to do it. :jester:

But I would like to see in action someone who could run that much with a banjo (I'm the only one I've seen run a banjo, other than on YouTube videos). It would be a treat.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

JustMe said:


> To run a box of tapes in a day with my banjo, I'd need some of your easy *ssed jobs to do it. :jester:
> 
> But I would like to see in action someone who could run that much with a banjo (I'm the only one I've seen run a banjo, other than on YouTube videos). It would be a treat.


 No joke, the older ya get the more folks will let ya have the "easy" ones,,, I think they figure an old guy needs it,,,,,,:thumbup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Capt,

Deep respect for you guys who've been at this trade as long as you have, and can still get up and do it one more time.


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## michel1949 (Jul 21, 2010)

so i could use a banjo with the vertical angles and flush them

i will get the extension for the bazooka and see what will happend
but if it doesn't the banjo would be the plan B
thanks for the tips


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

michel,

If you do get a banjo, come back for a couple tips before running it. They should help take some of the frustration out of learning how to tape with one.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

michel1949 said:


> so i could use a banjo with the vertical angles and flush them
> 
> i will get the extension for the bazooka and see what will happend
> but if it doesn't the banjo would be the plan B
> thanks for the tips


 Sure ya can. I always start from the top, so when I'm tapeing, I pull the corners down to the flat while I'm on stilts. After I get down, I pull em from the flat to the floor. That leaves the bottom overlapping the top half. So when you flush, you have to pull up, If you pull down, you will snag the tape at the flat and you won't like that.

That being said, I actually use angleheads and have never used a flusher, but I am assuming that they both work the same here.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Sure ya can. I always start from the top, so when I'm tapeing, I pull the corners down to the flat while I'm on stilts. After I get down, I pull em from the flat to the floor. That leaves the bottom overlapping the top half. So when you flush, you have to pull up, If you pull down, you will snag the tape at the flat and you won't like that.
> 
> That being said, I actually use angleheads and have never used a flusher, but I am assuming that they both work the same here.


I think (could be wrong) flusher is a canuck slang term,think we picked it up from the can-am,bte angle ,so no matter what head your using,in our steps we say,wipe then flush,think you guys say wipe then glaze,I was puzzled by the word glaze when I 1st came here,other things i notice,were drywaller your rocker (I like that one better).your hotmuds were quick sets or sh1t rock or use ninety .think you say pluck or pick (?) corners,we say do 3 ways,think theres others,maybe we need a glossary of terms or something.
there's a british drywall talk site,they speak english and half the time I don't know what their talking about,they call touch ups snagging,and a toilet a kabob


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> I think (could be wrong) flusher is a canuck slang term,think we picked it up from the can-am,bte angle ,so no matter what head your using,in our steps we say,wipe then flush,think you guys say wipe then glaze,I was puzzled by the word glaze when I 1st came here,other things i notice,were drywaller your rocker (I like that one better).your hotmuds were quick sets or sh1t rock or use ninety .think you say pluck or pick (?) corners,we say do 3 ways,think theres others,maybe we need a glossary of terms or something.
> there's a british drywall talk site,they speak english and half the time I don't know what their talking about,they call touch ups snagging,and a toilet a kabob


 Heres another one for ya 2buck,,,, pinwheel,,, since most guys use a bigger knife to pick or pluck their 3-ways,, it looks like a "pinwheel" (kids toy) in the 3-way, so some guys call em pinwheels.


BTW, do you bed,float or block your second coat on the flats,or is that the bevels,perhaps its the horizontals????

I think your right, we need Larry the Cable Guy to print us out a drywallers dictionary. I'm pretty sure he understands all this stuff


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Heres another one for ya 2buck,,,, pinwheel,,, since most guys use a bigger knife to pick or pluck their 3-ways,, it looks like a "pinwheel" (kids toy) in the 3-way, so some guys call em pinwheels.
> 
> 
> BTW, do you bed,float or block your second coat on the flats,or is that the bevels,perhaps its the horizontals????
> ...


I think your right ,we need larry,you lost me on float or block,we could start a new thread on this,try to lose you on some terms
lids,skim-load,tabs,flyers,walleyes,klingons,polish pencil,trigger,slop-box,short joints


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

You mean like--do I need eliminator channel with double standups on rc channel typex 5/8 staggering joints run thru before slammer run flat 1st angle 2nd and so on???


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

DSJOHN said:


> You mean like--do I need eliminator channel with double standups on rc channel typex 5/8 staggering joints run thru before slammer run flat 1st angle 2nd and so on???


 Now why you want to elimate the channel by setting double standards (ya a liberal???) And what have you got against Royal Candian channels anyway? What has a typo got to do with any amount of staggering, that comes after work, at the bar ya know.And finally, if your joints are truely worth a spit,they will slam you flat on the first or second angle,,,,,, geeshee !!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

DSJOHN said:


> You mean like--do I need eliminator channel with double standups on rc channel typex 5/8 staggering joints run thru before slammer run flat 1st angle 2nd and so on???


you win


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> you win


 :notworthy:


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