# Your "Flats" Hollow or Overfilled?



## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

Let the debate begin.

Let's be honest. It never will be perfectly "flat." You don't know how much the mud will shrink etc. So you have to choose to slightly underfill or overfill.

I think most would say overfill. Making it similar to a slight butt joint. After all butt joints are never flat. Just feathered out so the hill isn't so steep.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

i hear what you are saying, but my flats and seams all get checked with a 12 'knife. They are flat. If not I either sand more or fan out mud till knife doesnt rock at all. On ceilings with resileint channell I always check with a 4ft level. As for shrinkage the more water you add to mud the more it will shrink. Try less water in your mix combined with true knifes. Check everything as you go


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I do the same boco. I check the seams with 12 before i tape, just to get an idea of what the framing is all about . block in with 8, next pass with 10,,
then check with 12 . some jobs have easy seams to fill. some ,, not so easy.
depends on brand of rock/ framing/ glued properly . 5/8 rock is a good straight level seam. A county near here ,, it's code ,, all trusses set on 24s
the ceilings must be hung with 5/8 .


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

I tend to overfill (crown), for some reason I've always had a fear of my joins appearing hollow.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

yep . i do it all the time kiwiman:blink:


----------



## jmr (Mar 22, 2010)

slightly over filled. but thats where my box is set. thats cuz the sanders use power sanders..


----------



## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

If some is good, more is better so, too much should be just enough.

I have had some flats with a little crown to them. For boxing mud, I barely add any water. I'm sure that I'm not getting much shrinkage at all. I have been thinking about adding more water to my compound to box with because of this. The only thing is that the looser compound seems to make a little more of a mess. With darn near straight mud, when the joints dry they feel as slick as glass with no sanding.

But anyway, if I had to choose, I would rather have the slightest crown vs. a hollow seam. And yes sometimes my seams come out perfect flat. Just not all the time.


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

This is why any seams in vaults or high light areas should be double wided by hand.

I agree normal seams I would rather have a slight crown rather than hollow no shadow effect too show seam that way.


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

2 coats is all that is needed to make flats perfectly flat,any more mud is over kill IMO.
If anything, I would rather my flats be hollow after paint then crowned,you get more shadow's when crowned,& is an easy fix,then a crowned joint.I can't stand seeing flats that are crowned,proves you don't know how to finish a basic flat.Why sand it all back off,makes no sense to me.


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

If after 2 coats your seams are perfectly flat and you sand your drywall like everyone else, guess what they aren't perfectly flat anymore. 
On an average seam height 48'' or 54'' you will never see a seam with a SLIGHT crown. Hollow seams however you will see the shadow left between bevels.
Anything higher than average height I double wide by hand.
All ceilings are double wided by boxes run first coat like normal second coat you run down seam then then you run box down both sides 1/2'' away from seam third coat down the middle ties everything together no hollow or crowned seams works on flat or vaulted ceilings.


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm sorry cdwoodcox I completely disagree.If you need to bust out your"flats"double wide, you humped your first coat.
Guess what.fast set does not shrink.
Very little sanding needed after I'm finished.I don't need a power sander when I'm done,light buff & move on.
When I can count every board on a ceiling because you "crowned" your flats,there is something wrong.I'm sorry,that's the way I feel.


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> I'm sorry cdwoodcox I completely disagree.If you need to bust out your"flats"double wide, you humped your first coat.
> Guess what.fast set does not shrink.
> Very little sanding needed after I'm finished.I don't need a power sander when I'm done,light buff & move on.
> When I can count every board on a ceiling because you "crowned" your flats,there is something wrong.I'm sorry,that's the way I feel.


I will repost my ceiling technique you won't see my flats walls or ceiling.

All ceilings are double wided by boxes run first coat like normal second coat you run down seam then then you run box down both sides 1/2'' away from seam third coat down the middle ties everything together no hollow or crowned seams works on flat or vaulted ceilings.


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary extra work.What ever works for you.:thumbsup:
I have been saying this from day 1,work smarter,not harder.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I go anywhere from flat to slight crown, it all depends on the desired final product. I'll let a hollow slide if it's super minimal.


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> Sounds like a lot of unnecessary extra work.What ever works for you.:thumbsup:
> I have been saying this from day 1,work smarter,not harder.


After seeing your other post now I'm curious what boxes do you run. I could never accomplish flat seams after 2 coats using mesh always had too be 3.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

My expartner used to double up his seams as well. We used to argue about this over and over. Finally i showed him the light (no pun intended). Now the little motherFR went on his own and bought an aplatech. What i did was make him use a $1000.00 work light for a few weeks. that and have him check all seams before finish coat with 12" knife. Anything crowned to be sanded flat before finish coat. Another thing I do is make sure 1st and 2nd coat is completely dry before finishing. Going over Wet mud will cuase the humping effect. Second coat is very important if you have crown here try using less mud and just fill the bevel. For finish coat skim tight then sand flat. If that doesnt work go ahead and get some fiba tape and ez sand 90.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> 2 coats is all that is needed to make flats perfectly flat,any more mud is over kill IMO.
> If anything, I would rather my flats be hollow after paint then crowned,you get more shadow's when crowned,& is an easy fix,then a crowned joint.I can't stand seeing flats that are crowned,proves you don't know how to finish a basic flat.Why sand it all back off,makes no sense to me.


You must have the greatest framers in all the nation up there .I run a third coat on seams IF needed . no long seam is the same from wall to wall.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

moore said:


> You must have the greatest framers in all the nation up there .I run a third coat on seams IF needed . no long seam is the same from wall to wall.


 I also run an extra coat on any seams or butts that dont look or feel right. When i do I double up the seams. I think we all would agree that this method works. Also i always have an idiot stick nearby. i admit it I use it to level out my imperfections. My theory being the flatter it is before finish coating the tighter you can pull it. Which equals less sanding.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

That's right. If you can feel it , you will see it after paint.
I have no fingerprints .


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> You must have the greatest framers in all the nation up there .I run a third coat on seams IF needed . no long seam is the same from wall to wall.


I will say, the work I do,the framing needs to be almost perfect.The jobs we do & the people that work on these jobs don't "leave it for the next guy" to fix.
May I ask tho,what does the framing have to do with a 5inch wide recess? Studs run vertical,if your rockers hang properly,the seems should land accordingly,No?


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> After seeing your other post now I'm curious what boxes do you run. I could never accomplish flat seams after 2 coats using mesh always had too be 3.


I don't run boxes.
Put it on with the 8 feather the edge wipe with the 10.It's all how you wipe it out.I have many other tricks but only my guys see them.Its all about the mix & something else we add,you wouldn't even know you were using fast set.:thumbsup:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> I will say, the work I do,the framing needs to be almost perfect.The jobs we do & the people that work on these jobs don't "leave it for the next guy" to fix.
> May I ask tho,what does the framing have to do with a 5inch wide recess? Studs run vertical,if your rockers hang properly,the seems should land accordingly,No?


A stud has a crown. Factory trusses are a joke. I gauge my seams with a 12
you gauge with a 10. right? I'm not trying to be a d!ck. Just saying . A 5'' recess means nothing when the framing is off wack. Around here they do leave it for the next guy to fix... ME.. ., and i do. the trim guys thank me for it, the cabinet men thank me for it, FINAL ,, you would have a sheep if you could see the s!!t i have to finish out. Don't get me wrong. There are are some great framers/ tradesmen here , but there are lots of cheaper ones. If you know what i mean!


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> A stud has a crown. Factory trusses are a joke. I gauge my seams with a 12
> you gauge with a 10. right? I'm not trying to be a d!ck. Just saying . A 5'' recess means nothing when the framing is off wack. Around here they do leave it for the next guy to fix... ME.. ., and i do. the trim guys thank me for it, the cabinet men thank me for it, FINAL ,, you would have a sheep if you could see the s!!t i have to finish out. Don't get me wrong. There are are some great framers/ tradesmen here , but there are lots of cheaper ones. If you know what i mean!


You hit the nail on the head, It's all about the crown.
So....when running boxes, they run true 
Crown out the box mainly leaves grey shoulders and barley fills the bevell
Crown in the shoulders take a heavy fill along with the bevell.
But I don't really feel I got to go around putting a straight edge on everything. my eyes can see and tell, so I don't need a straight edge to prove I'm right.

To me,,, you should just be able to tell,,,period


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> You hit the nail on the head, It's all about the crown.
> So....when running boxes, they run true
> Crown out the box mainly leaves grey shoulders and barley fills the bevell
> Crown in the shoulders take a heavy fill along with the bevell.
> ...


You should just be able to tell with your hand. [ I have no fingerprints]
And your eyes,,, I agree , a straight edge just gives you an idea of what needs to be leveled .If they want a true wall or ceiling,, call a plaster$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:whistling2:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> I don't run boxes.
> Put it on with the 8 feather the edge wipe with the 10.It's all how you wipe it out.I have many other tricks but only my guys see them.Its all about the mix & something else we add,you wouldn't even know you were using fast set.:thumbsup:


let me guess ,,,you use all purpose:whistling2:


----------



## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Nothing on a building site is ever laser level, well not on the sites i work on anyway. Surely we just give the apperance that it's flat when painted.
Going round with straight edges is overkill for me.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> I don't run boxes.
> Put it on with the 8 feather the edge wipe with the 10.It's all how you wipe it out.I have many other tricks but only my guys see them.Its all about the mix & something else we add,you wouldn't even know you were using fast set.:thumbsup:


What do you add? Dish water?


----------



## Quintana (May 2, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> I don't run boxes.
> Put it on with the 8 feather the edge wipe with the 10.It's all how you wipe it out.I have many other tricks but only my guys see them.Its all about the mix & something else we add,you wouldn't even know you were using fast set.:thumbsup:


cream of tarter or sugar.....just a guess


----------



## justadrywallguy (Sep 10, 2010)

moore said:


> A stud has a crown. Factory trusses are a joke. I gauge my seams with a 12
> you gauge with a 10. right? I'm not trying to be a d!ck. Just saying . A 5'' recess means nothing when the framing is off wack. Around here they do leave it for the next guy to fix... ME.. ., and i do. the trim guys thank me for it, the cabinet men thank me for it, FINAL ,, you would have a sheep if you could see the s!!t i have to finish out. Don't get me wrong. There are are some great framers/ tradesmen here , but there are lots of cheaper ones. If you know what i mean!


Thats why I check all the framing, fix what needs to be fixed. little extra time, but I will stand by my level 4 finish when I am all done.


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

moore said:


> What do you add? Dish water?


he probably adds fix all


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> 2 coats is all that is needed to make flats perfectly flat,any more mud is over kill IMO.
> If anything, I would rather my flats be hollow after paint then crowned,you get more shadow's when crowned,& is an easy fix,then a crowned joint.I can't stand seeing flats that are crowned,proves you don't know how to finish a basic flat.Why sand it all back off,makes no sense to me.


wow something me and FTD agree on:whistling2:

I know FTD coats by hand,,,,,but...... when running the boxes they are letting you know when something runs a stray. they run true and you can have a visual by what the shoulders are doing. When I see perfectly ran straight box runs, I become suspicious if the taper knows what he is doing. There should be dips and dives, sometimes on rare occasions, flats half to be turned into butt joints too. it's about making them level, then skim them tight.

Sanding to make level is plain nuts, and sorry for being arrogant about it. It's get it level, skim tight to hide imperfections, make things so sand day is a breeze, not a grind fest. I really don't care what people think my work looks like well I'm coating, so for example.......
pic #1 2buckjr knew he had to run the box more to one side b/c of what the shoulders were doing. does it look ugly....yep....but were professionals (i think)were making the joint level, not pretty looking, it's going to get painted one day so......

Pic#2 3rd set of screws counting from the left, there's a problem there, you can see too much grey in the shoulders, that means the wall/joint is protruding out. and between the 1st 2 set of screws from left again, the shoulder is too white, meaning it is taking a fill,,, but,,,,,I will wait to see what the (skim tight) 12" box does 1st. If the shoulders don't equal out by then, it may half to get fixed by hand.

Pic#3, the shoulders on the left and right of butt are equal in size, meaning it's good. if one side was white, then I would know to build out more on that side next time.

Pic#4 , sorta dark but, the shoulders are equal in size, just give them a TIGHT 12" with the system I'm running, and their ready to sand.

Yes some times I will skim out the 12", but it is over kill, I will do it on sunshine walls or ceilings, but it's not to build out the joint more, it's to cut down on flashing/light refraction. Guess you could call it a level 4 and a half


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Great post 2buck, cheers, I guess delayed shrinkage is your worst enemy.


----------



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> wow something me and FTD agree on:whistling2:
> 
> I know FTD coats by hand,,,,,but...... when running the boxes they are letting you know when something runs a stray. they run true and you can have a visual by what the shoulders are doing. When I see perfectly ran straight box runs, I become suspicious if the taper knows what he is doing. There should be dips and dives, sometimes on rare occasions, flats half to be turned into butt joints too. it's about making them level, then skim them tight.
> 
> ...


 Nice demonstration pics 2buck !:thumbsup: Doesn't look right but it IS. Whether using boxes,trowels or knives sometimes you have to stray off course a bit to make things level.


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> pic #1 2buckjr knew he had to run the box more to one side b/c of what the shoulders were doing. does it look ugly....yep....but were professionals (i think)were making the joint level, not pretty looking, it's going to get painted one day so......


I had to explain the other day to the homeowner of the house side job I'm doing that I wasn't drunk when I boxed some of the flats. 



2buckcanuck said:


> Pic#4 , sorta dark but, the shoulders are equal in size, just give them a TIGHT 12" with the system I'm running, and their ready to sand.


Are you running 4 and then 3 setting with your 10", with 10 minute spacing, followed later by a 4 setting on 12"? Are you running the 12" twice, the second one pretty much right after the other? Or just once? Trying to refresh memory.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Were just running at #3 all the time now, and it's more about waiting to see what the shoulders are doing. You could sit and have lunch, then go back and do second run if you know what I mean. Just as long as the mud is not dry. It's all about the shoulders drying/setting just a bit. Or another comparison would be the trick to coating over paint trick thingie. Where you coat over the paint, let it stand for a bit so all the pin holes appear, then coat it again, it's along those principles. I don't like running systems to where the system controls you, like hotmuds for example. So it's more about doing the 2nd run before it drys, hope that helps you in that respect

Also, we don't do that system in hard to do places like stair wells or garages. In the stairwells for example, we single pass with 10", next day 12" and correct shoulders if need be, then hand skim them, less strain on the body.

Yes the work is dry when running the 12", and it's one sweep/pass when doing it. The 12" is the one box I see newbies run wrong, and even so called seasoned pro's. It must be running tight. It's the hardest box to get running perfect. Some times you half to adjust the springs themselves. For example I had one box where running it on #5 the middle of the flat was tight but the edges were too heavy. Run it on #4, the edges were perfect, but it loaded in the middle. I had to adjust the springs by turning them one or two turns to correct this.

To know if it's not skimming tight enough, run finger across joint, if there's too much on your finger, not good. If you touch into a line while wet, and it affects the integrity/depth of the joint, not good. If your wiping down the edges to make them look better. If your finding a lot of pin holes in your finished work, your 12" should be filling pin holes, not create new ones. Not saying your running 12" wrong justme, I'm still waiting for my truck, so I'm bored:furious:

Another system to try is pre fill all the flats by hand. The fast way is to pull out the compound tube and flat applicator. It helps to level the joints more before you even lay the tape, the tape shrinks back less, and the tapes wrinkle less when wiping. I knew some tapers who did this to eliminate the 7" box, and the 10" does perform better. Works really well on the CD board for ceilings, :yes:


----------



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Amazing ! 

The post whore still dominates

You guys are still finishing drywall not plastering lathing aren't you ?

moving on .................


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> Amazing !
> 
> The post whore still dominates
> 
> ...


Admit it,,,, you missed talking to Cazna


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> Amazing !
> 
> The post whore still dominates
> 
> ...


I'm at a lost here,,,your a plasterer ... or a drywall finisher??
if you are a plasterer ,, good luck dude!!


----------



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> Admit it,,,, you missed talking to Cazna


fiddle sticks......

I love that guy Cazzzz


----------



## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

moore said:


> I'm at a lost here,,,your a plasterer ... or a drywall finisher??
> if you are a plasterer ,, good luck dude!!



this dude finishes the rock.............


not what your thinking...........


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> this dude finishes the rock.............
> 
> 
> not what your thinking...........


:thumbsup::thumbsup:today I'm not thinking ,,, sorry:tt2:


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> Were just running at #3 all the time now, and it's more about waiting to see what the shoulders are doing. You could sit and have lunch, then go back and do second run if you know what I mean. Just as long as the mud is not dry. It's all about the shoulders drying/setting just a bit.


So #3 all the time, 10" and 12", even when shoulders in some areas are saying that more mud could be useful? Or when less mud could be enough?



2buckcanuck said:


> Or another comparison would be the trick to coating over paint trick thingie. Where you coat over the paint, let it stand for a bit so all the pin holes appear, then coat it again, it's along those principles.


Are you talking 2nd hand coat here, after the 1st coat has dried? Right now I've taken to coating 'wet on wet' on paint - putting paper or FibaFuse tapes on, then 1st coating them. Let that set up a bit, but still wet-ish, even still fairly wet, when I 2nd coat that. Both coats using thinnish mud. That seems to take care of not letting pin holes develop. If I need a little more after in spots, any pin holes created aren't much problem. Usually few of them, if really any, and small.



2buckcanuck said:


> Yes the work is dry when running the 12", and it's one sweep/pass when doing it. The 12" is the one box I see newbies run wrong, and even so called seasoned pro's. It must be running tight. It's the hardest box to get running perfect. Some times you half to adjust the springs themselves. For example I had one box where running it on #5 the middle of the flat was tight but the edges were too heavy. Run it on #4, the edges were perfect, but it loaded in the middle. I had to adjust the springs by turning them one or two turns to correct this.
> 
> To know if it's not skimming tight enough, run finger across joint, if there's too much on your finger, not good. If you touch into a line while wet, and it affects the integrity/depth of the joint, not good. If your wiping down the edges to make them look better. If your finding a lot of pin holes in your finished work, your 12" should be filling pin holes, not create new ones. Not saying your running 12" wrong justme, I'm still waiting for my truck, so I'm bored


That's all right. I'm sure you could show me a few things with the way I use my 12". A fair amount of my boxing style has been self taught till now, including boxing like a drunk. I got put on my own much of the time pretty early on while learning taping, and the others I've worked with do things more like the straight line thing. I tried telling a couple about your 2X10" method, but I don't have enough time in for them to be willing to listen too much. 

Right now I'm adjusting my 2nd 10" run setting, and my 12", according to what the 1st 10"ing tells me. Some spots get more than #3, some less. In your ceiling pic, if I considered the problem significant enough in length and depth, I might box that part a little thicker, then run from the walls to that point with reduced mud setting. It seems to work, with little knifing needed after, while keeping sanding down. But I'm not saying it's the best way. Just me trying something out on the last couple jobs I've boxed.



2buckcanuck said:


> Another system to try is pre fill all the flats by hand. The fast way is to pull out the compound tube and flat applicator. It helps to level the joints more before you even lay the tape, the tape shrinks back less, and the tapes wrinkle less when wiping. I knew some tapers who did this to eliminate the 7" box, and the 10" does perform better. Works really well on the CD board for ceilings, :yes:


Taking time like that before putting tapes on with banjo or bazooka does seem a bit unusual to me. But maybe I'll have to see.

I find that FibaFuse doesn't seem to settle back in as much as paper in the flats. At least the crease doesn't seem to suck back in so much, which can be nice for coating on.

Tape wrinkling isn't much problem when I put a bit of drag on paper tape with my fingers as it's feeding up and out the bazooka. But I'm sure you know that. Just mentioning it for maybe others.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

part one, #3 on the 10" only, the 12" you run when it's dry @ what ever # it skims at best. your finding out what is bad, just leave it at #3, even for butts too

part two, 2nd coat while wet with the 10", yes

Part three sounds all good what your saying, but I keep the 10" at #3 no matter what the joint is doing.......unless!!!!!1 the joint is so bad, that you turn it into a butt joint . taping is a step of progressions, you want things to dry, then do what ever it takes to make it good by boxes, coating by hand etc.....

Part four think the principal is the tape don't shrink in as much, drywall with square nosed bevell there's not to big of a difference, but with CD (ceiling board) the nose of the bevell is rounded. so it makes a huge difference there.

And I meant when your wiping the tape with the knife, the tape won't wrinkle. 

Here's some pics that may help you, 2buckjr is dog F**king, standing around like normal drinking his coffee. He's getting ready to do the 2nd pass. Notice that the butts are not done yet, he does them on the 2nd pass. Maybe these pics will show how much were putting on. the last pic is different job, finished sanded

I will try to help your more by PM.....tomorrow


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> part two, 2nd coat while wet with the 10", yes


So you're talking boxing the painted areas(?) For us, hand coating is usually more the situation. I was meaning hand coating, with doing the 2nd coat while the 1st is still wet/wet-ish. But if I could justify a box, I'd use it instead.



2buckcanuck said:


> Part four think the principal is the tape don't shrink in as much, drywall with square nosed bevell there's not to big of a difference, but with CD (ceiling board) the nose of the bevell is rounded. so it makes a huge difference there.


Ahh, I see. Didn't notice. Haven't noticed any real issue yet with CD. But I haven't done a lot of it.



2buckcanuck said:


> And I meant when your wiping the tape with the knife, the tape won't wrinkle.


Probably my problem in explaining. I was meaning that by putting the tape on with one's fingers creating a little drag on the tape while installing with bazooka, the tape goes on tighter, so less chance of wrinkling when wiping.



2buckcanuck said:


> Notice that the butts are not done yet, he does them on the 2nd pass.


So butts are only getting 1 swipe with 10"? Don't find enough value in doing them and then leaving them for a few minutes, then doing them again?



2buckcanuck said:


> Maybe these pics will show how much were putting on. the last pic is different job, finished sanded


It looks like I might be a little more aggressive in how much gets left on. Depending on how it sands out, I like taking flats back till there's a shadow of one or both shoulders showing through. But I use 2 pole sanders with different papers to help make sure there isn't problems.



2buckcanuck said:


> I will try to help your more by PM.....tomorrow


----------



## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> fiddle sticks......
> 
> I love that guy Cazzzz


 
Yay your back, Glad im your favourite, I missed you Mudstar, Welcome :whistling2: Hows the Concorde Going.

Watch out for Mudstar Moore, Hes quite clever, Says very little but knows how to push buttons.....If your not aware.


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

It's all good:thumbup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buck, you broke my heart,,, you got a plastic mud pan and a styrofoam coffee cup,,,,,,,,,,,,,

you've BLASPHEMYED!!!!!!!!!:yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 2buck, you broke my heart,,, you got a plastic mud pan and a styrofoam coffee cup,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> you've BLASPHEMYED!!!!!!!!!:yes:


I know, I almost didn't post the pic's, I was like "where to hell did the plastic mud pan come from" .we got 3 stainless steel ones, one compliments of Advanced. To be honest, 2buckjr was using it when scraping up mud off the floor......I think ?????

No choice with the Styrofoam cups, that's all our hick town sells. It sucks when you step on one, you wreck one perfectly good pee toilet :whistling2:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> I know, I almost didn't post the pic's, I was like "where to hell did the plastic mud pan come from" .we got 3 stainless steel ones, one compliments of Advanced. To be honest, 2buckjr was using it when scraping up mud off the floor......I think ?????
> 
> No choice with the Styrofoam cups, that's all our hick town sells. It sucks when you step on one, you wreck one perfectly good pee toilet :whistling2:


 :thumbup: Funny thing about them plastic mud pans,,,, when its cold and there ain't no heat,,, they keep your hand from freezing. How ever ya get so much grief about em, ya just end up using the stainless ones and working with cold hands !!

Can't help ya with the styrofoam cup,,,, your on your own man !!!:whistling2:


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> :thumbup: Funny thing about them plastic mud pans,,,, when its cold and there ain't no heat,,, they keep your hand from freezing. How ever ya get so much grief about em, ya just end up using the stainless ones and working with cold hands !!
> 
> Can't help ya with the styrofoam cup,,,, your on your own man !!!:whistling2:


I know a guy who swears by the plastic pans for working hot mud...let it set up in the pan then twist & pop. I don't like a pan where the edge falls off :laughing:


----------



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Ooooh I see Bailey Platinum bead in use, 2buck.

Hey, you likely don't have delayed shrinkage problems anyway, because like most smart(er) tapers, you don't screw around with Shrynko.

Is that Ultra WHITE or 2 Kote PLUS?


----------



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Kick your boarders in the teeth for not scrapping out that house properly.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Bevelation said:


> Ooooh I see Bailey Platinum bead in use, 2buck.
> 
> Hey, you likely don't have delayed shrinkage problems anyway, because like most smart(er) tapers, you don't screw around with Shrynko.
> 
> Is that Ultra WHITE or 2 Kote PLUS?


Yes, the 2 kote plus, we find it don't dry too bad, and we like a mud thats a bit tough to sand (machine mud too soft for example) It comes in the orange box here.

We ordered the yellow boxes in this house to lay tape, because they say it's meant for laying tape, but the box said Best mud in the joint

Have you tried the yellow or BMITJ, if so ,how do you find it


----------



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Every ProRoc product I use has been BMITJ. I love the yellow. It reminds you that you can't forget to wipe your tapes, every time you forget to wipe your tapes!

I don't care so much for the blue all purpose. It's good and everything but not enough to use it frequently. I stick with the green Lite Finishing. It used to be harder to sand, and would take 150/180 grit to sand out nice, but they've softened it up so that anything less than 240grit would show grit lines. It's fine. I don't change my paper every 1000 like I used to, and it gives the same flash free finish otherwise.

I'm surrounded by Synko fans here. They won't know how hard it is to polish with Synko until they try ProRoc. It's amazing how well it resists drying up.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Bevelation said:


> Every ProRoc product I use has been BMITJ. I love the yellow. It reminds you that you can't forget to wipe your tapes, every time you forget to wipe your tapes!
> 
> I don't care so much for the blue all purpose. It's good and everything but not enough to use it frequently. I stick with the green Lite Finishing. It used to be harder to sand, and would take 150/180 grit to sand out nice, but they've softened it up so that anything less than 240grit would show grit lines. It's fine. I don't change my paper every 1000 like I used to, and it gives the same flash free finish otherwise.
> 
> I'm surrounded by Synko fans here. They won't know how hard it is to polish with Synko until they try ProRoc. It's amazing how well it resists drying up.


Same here with the blue, it's ok but not too keen on it, been using the 2 kote for 2 years now. Have not tried the green, I like soft mud on screws so want to try it soon.

Everyone around here uses, or use to use the GCG red & white box, it's gone down hill, no synko out here so.....


----------



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

^Your CGC is probably the same stuff as Synko here. It's not very slick mud.


----------



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bevelation said:


> ^Your CGC is probably the same stuff as Synko here. It's not very slick mud.


Yikes ! Don't get delirious !:jester: I'd go as far as saying that Stynko is a wee bit nicer than CGC for machine tools but BMITJ is the best of the options we have. It flows nice and smoooooth through my Zooka and boxes. Tried the Machine Mud when it first came out. Haven't used it in 10 years though so I can't really speak about how good it is now.


----------

