# You get what you pay for >A tapers nightmare



## Final touch drywall

Here is a job that we opted not to bid on because we new the builder was cheap.
A friend of mine works for the builder,so yesterday I decided to drop by & see what he's paying dirt for.
I'll let you guys be the judge.


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## Final touch drywall

Those pics were just some of the obvious that stuck out.I could have taken pictures all day long.

They couldn't even afford walk boards for the 4 sections of scaffold.:blink:


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## Final touch drywall

Doesn't anyone use 16ft ers????

Corner bead mess.I see nothing but bad things happening to this house.


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## moore

that scaffold set up is a death trap, and a broken window.


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## Final touch drywall

Once I saw all the boxes of crap-flex,I just started to:lol::lol::lol::lol: on the floor.

Its sad builders will save $$5,000 for crap work.A 3 million dollar house that is gonna end up being a nightmare.


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## Final touch drywall

moore said:


> that scaffold set up is a death trap, and a broken window.


Something tells me that the illegal that was out there,did not think about that.


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## M T Buckets Painting

Whoa, that looks like I hung that.:whistling2: I don't remember doing that job. 

Don't worry the taper will take care of any issues.


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## SlimPickins

Sheesh, out of all the pictures that you posted, I can see maybe making one of those mistakes, but there sure are a lot of them in that puppy. It looks like someone was in over their head and took a job that might have been beyond their skill level. 

That said, that nasty skylight-clerestory deal looks like a super pain in the a$$. Some architects should have to finish their designs from start to finish....maybe then they will back off on the ego masturbation.


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## Final touch drywall

SlimPickins said:


> Sheesh, out of all the pictures that you posted, I can see maybe making one of those mistakes, but there sure are a lot of them in that puppy. It looks like someone was in over their head and took a job that might have been beyond their skill level.
> 
> That said, that nasty skylight-clerestory deal looks like a super pain in the a$$. Some architects should have to finish their designs from start to finish....maybe then they will back off on the ego masturbation.


I had a hard time getting a shot of the coupala with all the light coming in.You should have seen all the seems in there.


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## silverstilts

That is a real tapers nightmare... I looked at one last week not even close to that type of detail but the carpenter pieced everything together:furious: as the homeowner standing there I made a comment about a couple of closets and the carpenters reply was nobody sees the inside of a closet so i will use up my waste. Dumb azz homeowner still wants it to be finished. Always price according to amount of work , twice the work twice or more for the taping if i do it i do it if not oh well wont have to deal with the headache.


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## moore

a nail every 2 feet on bead? [edge cracks]. they need more screws in the fields .  i see a microwave . i know who hung that one.


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## DSJOHN

Damn,that hanging job blows. You can tell someone had training[very little] but none of the crew installing is a master!! I did a job years ago similar to this--butt joints in all the wrong places and unnecessary ones[in skylites] . Builder hung it[always thought he was as good or better than us] I simply asked him" why dont you use your scrap pieces of trim on your stair risers or windows?" he laughed[of course] and i replied--well, you realize that the rock is the largest finished area of the home,treat it like that from now on!!! But like most of us have found out in the last couple years the price is all that counts. They may drop the price of the new pick-up you want to buy to get the sale but they are not pricing it against a toyota corolla, apples to apples--quality vs quality[not price]


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## mudslingr

Just my kinda thing ! Let me at it !

Other than the nasty scaffold, crappy strait-flex and the pile of cords near the edge of the drop everything else is pretty much standard. A gap or few is to be expected if you didn't hang it yourself and everybody breaks a piece of board now and then. 

Have fun with this one. Don't let the f'ups bring you down and make that bitch look pretty !


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## moore

whats the red top pro form about? haven't seen it before.


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## drywallnflorida

moore said:


> whats the red top pro form about? haven't seen it before.


 
That would be the lipstick!!!! And they are gonna need alot of it to make that pig pretty!!!!


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## DSJOHN

:thumbup:


drywallnflorida said:


> That would be the lipstick!!!! And they are gonna need alot of it to make that pig pretty!!!!


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## moore

:lol::lol::lol: come on now. it's not that bad. it can be fixed. to many butts broke in wrong areas. a few miss cuts . too too many screws in fields. i know who hung the rock. [ how many boxes covered/ how many wires cut?] ,, but 
all in all, it can be fixed.$$$$$$$$$$$$$...............$$$$$$$$$$$$$! 


if i had to guess . the hangers charged $5 per sheet. laugh , but i bet i'm close.


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## smisner50s

only a firstclass finisher can take the less than perfect.and make it a show piece...agreed


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> :lol::lol::lol: come on now. it's not that bad. it can be fixed. to many butts broke in wrong areas. a few miss cuts . too too many screws in fields. i know who hung the rock. [ how many boxes covered/ how many wires cut?] ,, but
> all in all, it can be fixed.$$$$$$$$$$$$$...............$$$$$$$$$$$$$!


Yes, and now would be a good time to backcharge the hangers the entire price of taping plus 20%:laughing:


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## Bill from Indy

My take

pic1 cant see anything majorly wrong
pic2 if there is a LVL with joist hangers in that dormer, it will be crack city..gap in angle is a little rough
pic3 Lazy/Inexperienced
pic4 Butt city...relates to pic3
pic5 nothing major
pic6 see 3-4
pic7 see 3-4-6

2nd post pic call OSHA if they get a 5k$ fine that will teach them for being cheap....seriously

you are defiantly right in the phrase of getting what you pay for...that is a buck/sf finish no questions

personally, I have had no issues with the medium and use it all the time....but its me..the red lid is either multi-use proform which I use a lot of or the machine grade that capt speaks of and I can't get it here unless I order a whole semi...lame

that job is going to take a lot of lipstick as stated before


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## SlimPickins

Bill from Indy said:


> My take
> 
> pic1 cant see anything majorly wrong


I was thinking that at first, and then I noticed the 20+ ft. long ba$tard joint.


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## Bill from Indy

SlimPickins said:


> I was thinking that at first, and then I noticed the 20+ ft. long ba$tard joint.


it could be....hard to tell...just looks like a gapped flat to me...like one guy didn't get his end tight.....but it is hard to tell from the pic....op that took them could say what were looking at maybe


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## alltex

Final touch drywall said:


> Those pics were just some of the obvious that stuck out.I could have taken pictures all day long.
> 
> They couldn't even afford walk boards for the 4 sections of scaffold.:blink:


 They probably don,t use them where these amigos came from!


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## DSJOHN

The 1st pic looks like quite a gap in the ceiling sheets in the middle?


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## jmr

@ final touch, you should post more info and pictures of the work you do.. your a true craftsman from what i've seen in the past and i like reading your posts. also keep us updated on the finishing on THIS project. i'm curious how it turns out. 

rock job doesn't look too bad.. but on a $3 mil house, anything less then perfect is absurd. greedy contractor will get what he has coming eventually.

@ mt buckets painting, 'let the taper fix it' has been the going philosophy for ages now.. and we don't get paid to compensate... its bull****, but i still like what i do so i suck it up i guess..


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## Final touch drywall

jmr said:


> @ final touch, you should post more info and pictures of the work you do.. your a true craftsman from what i've seen in the past and i like reading your posts. also keep us updated on the finishing on THIS project. i'm curious how it turns out.
> 
> rock job doesn't look too bad.. but on a $3 mil house, anything less then perfect is absurd. greedy contractor will get what he has coming eventually.


Thanks,I will stop in periodically & take some pics along the way.
I found out more about the house today,its on the market for 8million ,& the Dw company that got the job, was 10grand cheaper than the lowest bid..
In pic #1 that is a cut seem in the next row from the closest board.You can see that row is only 3ft wide.
The only thing these guys new was a t-sqaure, a knife & how to turn the screw gun on.:blink: 
P.S.They showed up with Florida plates on the van


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## drywallnflorida

Final touch drywall said:


> Thanks,I will stop in periodically & take some pics along the way.
> I found out more about the house today,its on the market for 8million ,& the Dw company that got the job, was 10grand cheaper than the lowest bid..
> In pic #1 that is a cut seem in the next row from the closest board.You can see that row is only 3ft wide.
> The only thing these guys new was a t-sqaure, a knife & how to turn the screw gun on.:blink:
> P.S.They showed up with Florida plates on the van


 
Easy there!! not all of us from Florida speak spanish!!!!


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## evolve991

:thumbup:FREEEESSSSHHHHH FLAKES!!!!! Yup ya get what ya pay for!!! I guess they left theyre 'angle chalkbox' at home that day,had to use the straight one:thumbsup:. Not nearly enough sets in the butts...n butts n butts.....The only thing wrong with that job starts with the builder....and keeps going.....work another dollar store crew!!


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## jmr

Final touch drywall said:


> Thanks,I will stop in periodically & take some pics along the way.
> I found out more about the house today,its on the market for 8million ,& the Dw company that got the job, was 10grand cheaper than the lowest bid..
> In pic #1 that is a cut seem in the next row from the closest board.You can see that row is only 3ft wide.
> The only thing these guys new was a t-sqaure, a knife & how to turn the screw gun on.:blink:
> P.S.They showed up with Florida plates on the van


hmmm. there is a poster from PA on this board that said some regional drywall company is flat rate, bulk bidding up and down the east coast, using cheap subs.. i would assume making tons of money.. like defunked former builders or something with college degrees. i wonder if its those dudes...

what floors me is the fact that this builder would take a bid so significantly lower then what the local standard is without caring, or drawing a red flag... once again, this industry needs to be severally purged of all its bad business and bad people.. i mean, if craftsman guys like us don't even have a market in higher end building, we are officially ****ed.


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## smisner50s

Just because its on the market for 8 mill.that doesn't autmatically make the builder a good one or even repitble.All its means is this guy got luckey and won the bid.and will get the cheepest subs to do all thera work and he make more in the end..I have found out over the years...the people with money.have it because there cheep..Its not right but it is how it works now a days.I belive in quality first


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## joepro0000

Final touch drywall said:


> Thanks,I will stop in periodically & take some pics along the way.
> I found out more about the house today,its on the market for 8million ,& the Dw company that got the job, was 10grand cheaper than the lowest bid..
> In pic #1 that is a cut seem in the next row from the closest board.You can see that row is only 3ft wide.
> The only thing these guys new was a t-sqaure, a knife & how to turn the screw gun on.:blink:
> P.S.They showed up with Florida plates on the van


Hey we have some of the best Finishers, Hangers, and Metal Stud framers. I hear it all the time from Supers who travel all around the country, they always compliment us for great finishing work, quick hanging, and precise framing.


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## Bevelation

smisner50s said:


> only a firstclass finisher can take the less than perfect.and make it a show piece...agreed


You've never had a challenging job before, have you?

That hanging job is nice compared to what I had had to deal with so far.


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## smisner50s

Bevelation said:


> You've never had a challenging job before, have you?
> 
> That hanging job is nice compared to what I had had to deal with so far.


Yes I have done challengeing work...my point is you dont get good by doing easy work.hard and challengeing work is where you learn


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## Al Taper

I get jobs like that all the time from people. But thats not cheap finish job. And he got his number to hang it.. I am sure anyone of us here could make that job look mint. But for the right price. :whistling2: 
I know I can shine a turd for the right price.


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## alltex

my last big house had 4 dormers just like that ,with the same butt joint on the lid, and all 4 cracked .I wonder how many pasos they paid to hang that mess.


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## penandscale

this looks like a good job for vario mud?


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## betterdrywall

Final touch drywall said:


> Thanks,I will stop in periodically & take some pics along the way.
> I found out more about the house today,its on the market for 8million ,& the Dw company that got the job, was 10grand cheaper than the lowest bid..
> In pic #1 that is a cut seem in the next row from the closest board.You can see that row is only 3ft wide.
> The only thing these guys new was a t-sqaure, a knife & how to turn the screw gun on.:blink:
> P.S.They showed up with Florida plates on the van


FTD... who is really at fault here on this job,, ???? Looks to me like a run and gun job,, some hangers are good at it and some are not.. seriously an 8M job should have all 5/8" rock..IMO. Makes you wonder how long it will take the framing to move and crack out the tape.. I just went back for a second go around on repairs to a 2 year old home ,, I originally did the DW work on.. I am in no position to demand the earth stop moving,, I think thats why they make concrete ,, not sure,, and tree's grow all the time,, just can't seem to put the tree's together and make them last... But hey it's only a 400K home..That took a forest to build.


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## The_Texture_Guy

In picture six it looks like they hung the ceiling after the walls. Im no professional hanger but aren't you supposed to hang the lids, than the walls? Or is it done differently for peaked roofs? 

I also have never seen red buckets.

I have recently had to bids i went to give estimates on in which the home owner thought my price of $75 and hour for two men on the job was way to much. He had two skylights he wanted plugged up at the bottom, and one of them had a leak that had been repaired so he also had drywall that needed to be rehung. I figure it would take me 2 hours per hole to fix. I would have to frame it in, figuring that would be better then cutting the drywall to find the studs. replace the old drywall to the side and do the same. thing for the other sky light. they were about 14 feet in the air.. he also stated he wanted them to look like it was already there and match with the knockdown texture. He had a very thick texture that i am sure know hopper can match. Plus he wanted it painted. My final price was $600. His home was 580k in a rich part of orlando. He said he felt the job was only worth $300 bucks. I told him my price is for quality, and he said he can't justify paying 6c for "half a days work" My total labor was for 8 hours. 6.5 for repairs and 1.5 for painting. and that was probably off by an hour. I simply informed him that i was referred to him that i usually charge 50 per hour per person and 600 was my low price, and i would be more then happy to come back and charge him my typical show up texture fee of 200 to plus whatever it took to make the texture look new again after the cheap person he has to fix it. so my total price for that was 350. still above his 300 that he only wants to pay.


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## jmr

The_Texture_Guy said:


> In picture six it looks like they hung the ceiling after the walls. Im no professional hanger but aren't you supposed to hang the lids, than the walls? Or is it done differently for peaked roofs?
> 
> I also have never seen red buckets.
> 
> I have recently had to bids i went to give estimates on in which the home owner thought my price of $75 and hour for two men on the job was way to much. He had two skylights he wanted plugged up at the bottom, and one of them had a leak that had been repaired so he also had drywall that needed to be rehung. I figure it would take me 2 hours per hole to fix. I would have to frame it in, figuring that would be better then cutting the drywall to find the studs. replace the old drywall to the side and do the same. thing for the other sky light. they were about 14 feet in the air.. he also stated he wanted them to look like it was already there and match with the knockdown texture. He had a very thick texture that i am sure know hopper can match. Plus he wanted it painted. My final price was $600. His home was 580k in a rich part of orlando. He said he felt the job was only worth $300 bucks. I told him my price is for quality, and he said he can't justify paying 6c for "half a days work" My total labor was for 8 hours. 6.5 for repairs and 1.5 for painting. and that was probably off by an hour. I simply informed him that i was referred to him that i usually charge 50 per hour per person and 600 was my low price, and i would be more then happy to come back and charge him my typical show up texture fee of 200 to plus whatever it took to make the texture look new again after the cheap person he has to fix it. so my total price for that was 350. still above his 300 that he only wants to pay.


reading this made my blood boil only because it happens so much. rich a**hole all of the sudden is a pro drywaller and knows how long and what it takes to fix something, get it perfect and get out.. expects you to work for pennies even though your strugglling. i dont even bother driving out to peoples homes anymore because of pricks like this... 

i guess you don't get rich without being an f'n tight wad..


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## The_Texture_Guy

jmr said:


> reading this made my blood boil only because it happens so much. rich a**hole all of the sudden is a pro drywaller and knows how long and what it takes to fix something, get it perfect and get out.. expects you to work for pennies even though your strugglling. i dont even bother driving out to peoples homes anymore because of pricks like this...
> 
> i guess you don't get rich without being an f'n tight wad..



its no big deal to me. before i go anywhere i now ask if they have a budget that they are working with. I just started this method 3 days ago and it at least lets me know if they are somewhat cheap or not. 

I recently received an email from a woman wanting popcorn removal, knockdown and paint. hI told her it can be up to 2.50sq/ft. her reply back was sh already has a bid for 1.25. my reply was that is low, my minium is at least 1.40 and it only includes x stuff. I told her if she is looking for a the lowest bid i am not the company for her, but if she wants quality at a fair price i will come out. she emailed me back saying she still wants me to come out. so she obviously knows my bid is at least 1.40 on the low side.

It means i at least have a shot at getting the project, plus i have charm and grace. to much debenair for one man. so the rubberband man starts to jam.


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## jmr

The_Texture_Guy said:


> its no big deal to me. before i go anywhere i now ask if they have a budget that they are working with. I just started this method 3 days ago and it at least lets me know if they are somewhat cheap or not.
> 
> I recently received an email from a woman wanting popcorn removal, knockdown and paint. hI told her it can be up to 2.50sq/ft. her reply back was sh already has a bid for 1.25. my reply was that is low, my minium is at least 1.40 and it only includes x stuff. I told her if she is looking for a the lowest bid i am not the company for her, but if she wants quality at a fair price i will come out. she emailed me back saying she still wants me to come out. so she obviously knows my bid is at least 1.40 on the low side.
> 
> It means i at least have a shot at getting the project, plus i have charm and grace. to much debenair for one man. so the rubberband man starts to jam.


i've never asked for a ball park from people. thats a good way to ask though.


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## Final touch drywall

Sorry I haven't had the time to update you guys on this.What a mess,:whistling2:but the sad part is the job is going to paint up.
Who needs machines, when you have 6 illegals running hand tools like a bunch of monkeys.
Well, almost 700 boards(all 12's) done in 7 days.Sanded some walls skimed & ready for paint.
Welcome to what we are dealing with here in NY.Hire illegals,pay them 120-150 a day(12)hr days.Don't pay any tax,carry no insurance,& put all the guys out of business that tried to do it legitimately.I'm sure this is going on all over the world.
Now to the good stuff.Amazing what some tape & mud can cover up.
You guys thought the rockers did a bad job @ first,Look @ all the outlets.


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## Final touch drywall

*Some more*

All the dust ,Smooth bumps everywhere.Looks OK in the pictures.


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## Scottish Drywaller

Why do you guys fill aroung the sockets/ electrical outlets ?


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## Final touch drywall

Scottish Drywaller said:


> Why do you guys fill aroung the sockets/ electrical outlets ?


This isn't our work.If my guys f-ed up that many outlets,they would be outta work.
5 over cut outlets in a house of that size is understandable,anything more,its time to find a new profession.


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## smisner50s

Scottish Drywaller said:


> Why do you guys fill aroung the sockets/ electrical outlets ?


They were probably cut to big or blown out and need needed to be flat taped and coated so there cover plates sit nice and flat.


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## 2buckcanuck

Final touch drywall said:


> Sorry I haven't had the time to update you guys on this.What a mess,:whistling2:but the sad part is the job is going to paint up.
> Who needs machines, when you have 6 illegals running hand tools like a bunch of monkeys.
> Well, almost 700 boards(all 12's) done in 7 days.Sanded some walls skimed & ready for paint.
> Welcome to what we are dealing with here in NY.Hire illegals,pay them 120-150 a day(12)hr days.Don't pay any tax,carry no insurance,& put all the guys out of business that tried to do it legitimately.I'm sure this is going on all over the world.
> Now to the good stuff.Amazing what some tape & mud can cover up.
> You guys thought the rockers did a bad job @ first,Look @ all the outlets.


While, at least my machines won't try to replace me some day, unlike you, it will take just ONE of your illegals to smarten up and ditch you.
No taxes or insurance, and your putting legitimate men out of work, Guess your too much of a coward to play in the true underground economy ,,,,the drug world. No, you just rob the pockets of the honest working man who is trying to support his family.......You have no honour.
And no, this practice is not done around the world.You would be taken to the highest point of a building here in canuck land, and shown the fast stairs down......and trust me, it's been done:yes:
And I don't care if I get banned from this site, your the lowest of the low, this is a site for professional tradesmen, not slave traders. I hope someone from your area reads this and reports you. Personally, I'd start with the tax man, They will F*ck you up real good.
And by the way, you should hire 6 more illegals to clean your floors, set yourself up for the big fall


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## Final touch drywall

*Somebody obviously wasn't following along.*

:whistling2:2buck,I except your apology.
Did you not read from page 1.*This is not my job*.Period.
I do not hire & will never hire illegal immigrants.I carry all my insurances,pay all my taxes every year & try to run a legitimate business.

Welcome 2 New York.Why do you think we have illegals flocking here,because guys are getting away with it.*I am thankful I work for honest builders, that do the right thing.:thumbsup:*
For example,A rather large outfit just got caught & fined over 400 thousand for 40 illegal workers,paying them cash $100 a day.It can't just be going on in NY.


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## 2buckcanuck

Ok ,sorry about that, read it from your last post. It looked like you were bragging about hi-ringing illegals. I will be the 1st to admit if I am wrong. So sorry about that ftd.
I think it's more of a problem down in the states (illegals), not saying it could not happen in Canada but........You guys have got so many now, that the politicians look at them as a potential vote, rather than a threat.
Hope that company getting fined, clears some room for you to get more work.
cheers


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## mudslingr

Either way, that's one hell of a freaking place ! What is it ? A house ?

Wish I could afford some of these monsters we work on.:blink:


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## moore

half moons and full moons , sh!t theres alot of them!
how many wires did they cut? looks like a precut job.
did they hang the 700 boards and then go back and screw the fields off?
YES final touch , i know this is not your job. i could tell .

south Americans take a bit more pride in there work. charge more than
Mexicans . Mexicans don't give a sh!t! that's why the two tribes hate each 
other. i myself cannot live in a cardboard box.. hard to compete with a man
who has NO bills! hope this doesn't sound too raciest .


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## SlimPickins

Final touch drywall said:


> This isn't our work.If my guys f-ed up that many outlets,they would be outta work.
> 5 over cut outlets in a house of that size is understandable,anything more,its time to find a new profession.


5? You're too nice. Maybe 2.:whistling2:


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## betterdrywall

FTD,, You sound a bit angry,, If these guys are running the job with out any insurance or state license,, Then why are you not reporting them? NYC has never been a place [from what I have heard in the past] that will let just anyone work there. very strict. 

One more thing,, I know this will P.O. You .. and I am sorry.. but 7 days to finish out a nightmare of a home with 6 guys be them legal or illegal ,, They did a pretty dayum good job.. If all your saying is true,,, about these guys and there legal status,, then your Lucky... If they get legitmate and charge more and take more time.. Then You have some serious worries.. all that they need to do is improve ... Other than that,, It's ready for Texture... 

Whats the deal with 12 ft boards??? 14 16 would be nice .. 8 and 9 10 could be used.. I have never ordered a home with just all 12 ft boards. or am I missing something?


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## The_Texture_Guy

in florida the illegals do the hanging finishing, the are working on the texturing, trim work, framing roofing, stucco. getting into electrical and plubming, as well as cabinets and carpets. 

The only person i blame are the people who hire these companies that use illegal workers.

If on every jobsite you had to provide a social or something it might tighten things up. it dosent take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone speaks no english they obviously aren't from here. simply detain them and ship them back. This is my solution, but the reason they don't do this is because it gets stuff done faster because no white person in florida is going to work that fast. That is the only sad part. as well the cost of homes will rise incredibly because everyone has to get their cut of the cut.

Its a double edge sword. i wish texture guys could bid on jobs just like every other trade instead of having to rely on a drywall contractor.


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## robotaper

Final touch drywall said:


> :whistling2:2buck,I except your apology.
> Did you not read from page 1.*This is not my job*.Period.
> I do not hire & will never hire illegal immigrants.I carry all my insurances,pay all my taxes every year & try to run a legitimate business.
> 
> Welcome 2 New York.Why do you think we have illegals flocking here,because guys are getting away with it.*I am thankful I work for honest builders, that do the right thing.:thumbsup:*
> For example,A rather large outfit just got caught & fined over 400 thousand for 40 illegal workers,paying them cash $100 a day.It can't just be going on in NY.


 
this has been going on for 20 yrs. plus here in the s.w.it makes it real hard to compete and make a decent living.


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## jmr

its pretty tough to compete when your competition works for half what you do, and does a good or OK job at it. 'good enough' work is usually good enough for most gcs or homeowners.


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## moore

Final touch drywall said:


> Sorry I haven't had the time to update you guys on this.What a mess,:whistling2:but the sad part is the job is going to paint up.
> Who needs machines, when you have 6 illegals running hand tools like a bunch of monkeys.
> Well, almost 700 boards(all 12's) done in 7 days.Sanded some walls skimed & ready for paint.
> Welcome to what we are dealing with here in NY.Hire illegals,pay them 120-150 a day(12)hr days.Don't pay any tax,carry no insurance,& put all the guys out of business that tried to do it legitimately.I'm sure this is going on all over the world.
> Now to the good stuff.Amazing what some tape & mud can cover up.
> You guys thought the rockers did a bad job @ first,Look @ all the outlets.


when did screw heads turn into seams?


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## Final touch drywall

betterdrywall said:


> FTD,, You sound a bit angry,, If these guys are running the job with out any insurance or state license,, Then why are you not reporting them? NYC has never been a place [from what I have heard in the past] that will let just anyone work there. very strict.
> 
> One more thing,, I know this will P.O. You .. and I am sorry.. but 7 days to finish out a nightmare of a home with 6 guys be them legal or illegal ,, They did a pretty dayum good job.. If all your saying is true,,, about these guys and there legal status,, then your Lucky... If they get legitmate and charge more and take more time.. Then You have some serious worries.. all that they need to do is improve ... Other than that,, It's ready for Texture...
> 
> Whats the deal with 12 ft boards??? 14 16 would be nice .. 8 and 9 10 could be used.. I have never ordered a home with just all 12 ft boards. or am I missing something?


*Angry,not 1 bit.This type of stuff has been going on for as long as I can remember.I would never rat anyone out,its just not me,nor do I have the time.
See,I believe in what goes around, comes around.If you have been in this business long enough,just by looking @ that job,you can see major disasters happening to that house...So IMO the builder got what he paid for.It is gonna come back to haunt him.
Your right,the finishers did a fine job,can't blame them for busting they hump & making it paint ready.:thumbsup:
* 


The_Texture_Guy said:


> The only person i blame are the people who hire these companies that use illegal workers.
> 
> If on every jobsite you had to provide a social or something it might tighten things up. it dosent take a rocket scientist to figure out that if someone speaks no english they obviously aren't from here. simply detain them and ship them back. This is my solution, but the reason they don't do this is because it gets stuff done faster because no white person in florida is going to work that fast. That is the only sad part. as well the cost of homes will rise incredibly because everyone has to get their cut of the cut.


*Amen brother*:thumbsup:
*Unfortunately you are right about the white man working.*



jmr said:


> its pretty tough to compete when your competition works for half what you do, and does a good or OK job at it. 'good enough' work is usually good enough for most gcs or homeowners.


*Luckily there is still some builders around that still knows where quality gets them.*


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## betterdrywall

FTD,, Your taking it alot smoother than I did in the past,, I used to get so P.O.'ed I thought I would go blind,, Guys cutting me out of work over pennies,,White contractors,, if that makes a difference,,, and not even charging the builders for extra's like bullnose. Walk in and see every joint in the home's, after a Heavy texture is applied. I've actually seen Texture over bare tape.. 
And still this is acceptable for a builder?

So when I say it is not a Bad job,, it really is not,,, compared to what I have seen in the past.


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## The_Texture_Guy

jmr said:


> its pretty tough to compete when your competition works for half what you do, and does a good or OK job at it. 'good enough' work is usually good enough for most gcs or homeowners.



All it takes is for the gc to check everyone on the job every day of work. It is ultimatley their responsibility for this illegal hiring. There is a way to stop. They just choose not to.


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## jmr

The_Texture_Guy said:


> All it takes is for the gc to check everyone on the job every day of work. It is ultimatley their responsibility for this illegal hiring. There is a way to stop. They just choose not to.


oh most new production home contractors could give a **** less if illegals or legal workers are doing their jobs.. they wash their hands of any liability when they hire the sub that employs them for cash.. as long as the job is getting done fast, cheap and good enough, they dont care. 

these days 'you get what you pay for' really doesn't apply in finishing production homes, unless your realllllly paying bottom dollar.


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## The_Texture_Guy

jmr said:


> oh most new production home contractors could give a **** less if illegals or legal workers are doing their jobs.. they wash their hands of any liability when they hire the sub that employs them for cash.. as long as the job is getting done fast, cheap and good enough, they dont care.
> 
> these days 'you get what you pay for' really doesn't apply in finishing production homes, unless your realllllly paying bottom dollar.



Thats my point. No one can blame the illegals. They get hired like everyone else.

Americans hurt America themselves and wonder why the economy sucks. Its there own doing, But as long as their pockets aren't hurt, they don't worry about it. When they loose their jobs that is when they bitch.


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## ChicagoTaper215

Final touch drywall said:


> Something tells me that the illegal that was out there,did not think about that.


ppl like you are what makes this country so sick. "The Illegal"? Your a f^$%&^$ p#$%^*. Thats why you dont see a white taper in chicago, they are f#$%^&* slow and work like ****. IUPAT in chicago is 90% latino and 10%mixed. You are a joke. To be specific mexicans have been taping here for years and are the best in the trade. So anyone who disagrees can put there money where there mouth is and come on over take a look at who these GC's contract.


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## 2buckcanuck

ChicagoTaper215 said:


> ppl like you are what makes this country so sick. "The Illegal"? Your a f^$%&^$ p#$%^*. Thats why you dont see a white taper in chicago, they are f#$%^&* slow and work like ****. IUPAT in chicago is 90% latino and 10%mixed. You are a joke. To be specific mexicans have been taping here for years and are the best in the trade. So anyone who disagrees can put there money where there mouth is and come on over take a look at who these GC's contract.


Do we get 3 guesses to guess what nationality you are:whistling2:
I think ftd was talking illegal Mexicans. Not legal ones like yourself who work for the international union of painters and allied trades (IUPAT) :yes:


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## moore

ChicagoTaper215 said:


> ppl like you are what makes this country so sick. "The Illegal"? Your a f^$%&^$ p#$%^*. Thats why you dont see a white taper in chicago, they are f#$%^&* slow and work like ****. IUPAT in chicago is 90% latino and 10%mixed. You are a joke. To be specific mexicans have been taping here for years and are the best in the trade. So anyone who disagrees can put there money where there mouth is and come on over take a look at who these GC's contract.


NO THEY ARE NOT! I KNOW! they could care less what your house turns out to be! fact!! those g/c are looking at $$$$ ,, but not for long. !


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## Final touch drywall

ChicagoTaper215 said:


> ppl like you are what makes this country so sick. "The Illegal"? Your a f^$%&^$ p#$%^*. Thats why you dont see a white taper in chicago, they are f#$%^&* slow and work like ****. IUPAT in chicago is 90% latino and 10%mixed. You are a joke. To be specific mexicans have been taping here for years and are the best in the trade. So anyone who disagrees can put there money where there mouth is and come on over take a look at who these GC's contract.


Do me a favor than,I will pay for the bus,& you drive them all back to Chicago.
This guy will thank you also.Just behind him is about 30 illegal day laborers.


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## The_Texture_Guy

ChicagoTaper215 said:


> ppl like you are what makes this country so sick. "The Illegal"? Your a f^$%&^$ p#$%^*. Thats why you dont see a white taper in chicago, they are f#$%^&* slow and work like ****. IUPAT in chicago is 90% latino and 10%mixed. You are a joke. To be specific mexicans have been taping here for years and are the best in the trade. So anyone who disagrees can put there money where there mouth is and come on over take a look at who these GC's contract.



Dang. I wonder who did all the taping before mexicans even came here? must have been martians from below texax...YI have seen many white finishers that are far better then mexicans. the difference. we have to be paid more to do the job so therefore we can't have a mexican taping armada on the job to finish in 4 days. it may take poor ****** 7. So again, the problem lies with the GC. they want more money and they want the house built faster. There is no such thing as taking your time to do it right. There is a thing called, "get the damn thing built so i can get paid". My brother has pointed out to me that there are people willing to pay a higher price to get things done properly and contractors that are willing to find subs that are legal and want to make sure the work is right. They are there and those are the people that need to be found so you can do your job efficiently and timely with little error.

That is what construction is about. It isn't supposed to be about how fast you can do something just to get paid. A job is supposed be bid on how much time you can do the job PROPERLY without mistakes.

As a texturer, I think it is bull**** when a builder tells us to spray something thicker or heavier because the finishing isnt as good. They expect us to use more material that WE pay for and NOT THEM, to hide what those foreign(exception to the I before E except after c rule, hence the reason europe has done away with that saying) workers do and they don't get in trouble. If something shows through the texture, they blame the texture guy that is supposed to hide it because the finishers didnt do their job properly and the hangars that just got off the banana boat left huge gaps and made the tape look like crap, but that is ok. Its still the textures fault. we should have done our job CORRECTLY to fix someone elses INCORRECT JOB. I think this thread now needs to die.

This is apparently a life long debate. Yes there are great foreign finishers, but at the same time there are still great Legall citizen finishers and hangers. the difference? We cost more money because we don't live 15 people in one house. 

LET THE THREAD DIE.


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## DSJOHN

Crap ,I,m Irish and I can finish faster than most[ usually you find us at the bar] Chic got to lighten up--if he is here legally great!!


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## Scott_w

One thing I hate is when racism comes into things. Although being from Canada we don't have the issues some of you guys face. 

It isn't the illegal workers fault. *IT IS THE PERSON HIRING THEM!* Here is is just all the "fly by night" guys with no insurance, and working for cash.

If there was no market for the cheaper labor, then they would be forced to have all the proper licenses and insurance like the rest. 

If you want to solve the problem, quit bitching and report the people hiring them.

FWIW, I see some terrible work from guys "born here" and some amazing work from some immigrants to Canada (that work their A$$ off). I have nothing wrong with anyone, from anywhere working here, and honestly don't care what they charge, as long as we all play by the same rules.

If people are looking for the lowest price, they would never have been a client of mine anyways.

Next time you take cash for a job, think about it, you are just as bad as one of them so called "illegals".

I guess I am the odd one out on this, so fire away. 

scott


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## DSJOHN

Scott dont take my post the wrong way---I,m not racist or a bigot-- I do agree ,when we all play by the same rules--all things equal ,then our bids will be on an equal playing field . Where I,m from its just the FBN guys we worry about, no illegals in my neck of the woods.


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## boco

The red lid is all purpose proform . Very good stuff but is a little to soft for way up north and in Fla probly not your best option, as it dries very fast in pan or boxes. Proform black and blue lids is the ****. I can do a house in 12 days without the fear of delayed shrinkage. I only use electric heat and a commercial dehumidifier in which i can supply for a small fee. Proform with proper drytime heat and NO-Coat means no fn call backs.


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## moore

boco said:


> The red lid is all purpose proform . Very good stuff but is a little to soft for way up north and in Fla probly not your best option, as it dries very fast in pan or boxes. Proform black and blue lids is the ****. I can do a house in 12 days without the fear of delayed shrinkage. I only use electric heat and a commercial dehumidifier in which i can supply for a small fee. Proform with proper drytime heat and Str Flex means no fn call backs.


 Oh no . you said straight flex.:whistling2: 
No joke . No coat is the better .


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> Oh no . you said straight flex.:whistling2:
> No joke . No coat is the better .


give mid flex a try, you may find yourself scratching your head, Wondering which one is better.
personally I find no-coat easier to install, but it takes more mud to coat it. Well the mid-flex is the exact opposite .
Their both a paper based product:thumbsup:


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## boco

No coats is a better product for vaulted ceilings and 45s. I still use the old school strt flex on 90 degree corners which works great at a price of $14.00 a roll compared to $43.00. Not for all 90s just the ones the sheetrocker did after lunch.


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## 2buckcanuck

DSJOHN said:


> Scott dont take my post the wrong way---I,m not racist or a bigot-- I do agree ,when we all play by the same rules--all things equal ,then our bids will be on an equal playing field . Where I,m from its just the FBN guys we worry about, no illegals in my neck of the woods.


It's ok to be a bigot, you may live a longer life
For example, if I were to assume all Americans were gun toll ting violent people, who could not find Canada on a map. Then I would make sure I was very friendly to everyone I met if I were to visit there. I would also make sure I brought a map with me. I would not want to end up in a neighbour hood where I might get lost and half to ask for directions.......
Oh no a bigoted assumption, a white boy in the wrong neighbourhood ,wrong time, wrong place.
it use to mean ignorant of a view or ideology, but now they apply it to race . It would be like us believing the kiwi's practice having sex on sheep before they move on to women. Hold on,,,,,,,,I think kiwiman said that was true 
To be racist, no. but to be a TINY bit bigoted is ok, as long as it don't turn to hate


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> it use to mean ignorant of a view or ideology, but now they apply it to race . It would be like us believing the kiwi's practice having sex on sheep before they move on to women. Hold on,,,,,,,,I think kiwiman said that was true


We do have standards ya know....there are black sheep and there are white sheep, then there are different breeds....Romneys are kinda cute...taste alright too 
What about your beavers....do they come in different colours, and do they all taste the same :sneaky2:.


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## rebel20

1 for the kiwiman:thumbup::notworthy::gun_bandana::tt2::tt2:


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## moore

:lol::lol::lol::lol:!!


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## smisner50s

Kiwiman said:


> We do have standards ya know....there are black sheep and there are white sheep, then there are different breeds....Romneys are kinda cute...taste alright too
> What about your beavers....do they come in different colours, and do they all taste the same :sneaky2:.


 not all beavers are createted equal


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## DSJOHN

smisner50s said:


> not all beavers are createted equal


:thumbup:Like the gynecologist said" gotta look at the ugly ones too"


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## ding

smisner50s said:


> not all beavers are createted equal


Ya but i never met a bad one :devil:


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## smisner50s

ding said:


> Ya but i never met a bad one :devil:


There are some out there that will give you nitemares......belive that haha


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> We do have standards ya know....there are black sheep and there are white sheep, then there are different breeds....Romneys are kinda cute...taste alright too
> What about your beavers....do they come in different colours, and do they all taste the same :sneaky2:.


Our beavers are usually one colour kiwiman, and they all taste very sweet, like Canadian Maple syrup. But if you every come here planning to eat one, it's best to shave them first. Their hair can get very long and thick after a cold Canadian winter


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Our beavers are usually one colour kiwiman, and they all taste very sweet, like Canadian Maple syrup. But if you every come here planning to eat one, it's best to shave them first. Their hair can get very long and thick after a cold Canadian winter


Well hell if that didn't just make me hungry...:blink:


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## The_Texture_Guy

SlimPickins said:


> Well hell if that didn't just make me hungry...:blink:



Usually the beavers are hungry and make sure they don't bite back! Remember the old 1970's hairy beaver!


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## smisner50s

The_Texture_Guy said:


> Usually the beavers are hungry and make sure they don't bite back! Remember the old 1970's hairy beaver!


Its been awile sence l sceen one of them..bow chick a wow wow


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## SlimPickins

The_Texture_Guy said:


> Usually the beavers are hungry and make sure they don't bite back! Remember the old 1970's hairy beaver!


My wife would f*&%ing kill me if I made a comment in response to this:whistling2: so I'm not going to say anything.:blink:


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