# One Helluva Day...



## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

If you have read my introduction, you will know i'm a rookie in the finishing biz. Spotting screws and being a help, taped a firewall and thats it. Well yesterday my boss and I started on a house, and he picks out a small closet and says this is yours; spot it, tape it, bed and skim it. I thought thats cool, its only about 4x4x10 so should be easy. I spot the whole house and get to work on the closet. Things are going good and I finish my tape coat. Next day I second coat the spots and head back to closet..... an hour later I throw my pan in frustration. Boss hears the commotion and asks what up and I tell him, "bout to rip all this ****ing **** down and start over"...he says why? I say "Because I couldnt pay someone a thousand dollars to claim this work as theirs." he asks "are you trying to coat both sides of the corner?" I say "ya...Mother*******sonofa*****! "

How could I be so stupid?!? Corner 101, do one side at a time so your insides dont look like chickens*it. I still havent got over it. I work fast so I have plenty of time to watch my boss and I KNEW the corner rule and STILL did it! Been working hard to earn the right to keep a 4, 6, and 8 inch knife in my box and i'm pissing it away! :furious:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

The Easter bunny brings you a Easter present









Click on the links, and fill your basket









http://www.walltools.com/products/automatic-taping-tools/corner-finisher.html

http://www.canamtool.com/products/corner-flushers/


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## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

Lol Thanks for the laugh 2buck, I needed it. We don't use fancy machines, and as his apprentice I think it would go against his teachings to show up with such. Don't get me wrong, i'm addicted to toys, and shame on you for trying to feed my addiction, but even if he did not get mad at me for bringing a corner machine, he would think i'm "pussing" out and not being appreciative of his teachings. This Young Grasshopper kisses Sensai's ass, for Sensai provides the money needed to feed Baby Jade and keep the wife happy, otherwise Young Grasshopper gets no sexercise at night.


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

Listen to 2Buck,

Corners 101 - tube and wiper


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

RenoRob said:


> Listen to 2Buck,
> 
> Corners 101 - tube and wiper


I agree with you, but I was trying to be funny too:jester:

With these economic times, and Grit having a new wife and baby to feed, take what you can get. Sounds like grits boss is extreme old school, but it won't hurt him to learn the basics of hand taping, and some of the principles behind taping, but just for a year or so:yes:

After that, he has 2 choices, trying to introduce tools to his boss (b/c he has the connections) or going out on his own down the road.

I will delete this message in 24 hrs grit, so your boss don't see it:whistling2:


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## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

RenoRob said:


> Listen to 2Buck,
> 
> Corners 101 - tube and wiper


2buck knows his shiz... but I gotta do whats best for WE (my family) and not me, and right now thats doing what my boss says and how he says.
its like this...

Listen to boss... No boss
drywall finisher... car washer
$700-$1000 a week... $60 to $100 a week
lots of sex... No sex and an empty stomach.

Listen to boss.


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## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

2buckcanuck said:


> I agree with you, but I was trying to be funny too:jester:
> 
> With these economic times, and Grit having a new wife and baby to feed, take what you can get. Sounds like grits boss is extreme old school, but it won't hurt him to learn the basics of hand taping, and some of the principles behind taping, but just for a year or so:yes:
> 
> ...


No worries about deleting, he cant use a computer lol, seriously. :lol:

He is very old school, but his work is impeccable. Good thing about him being a seasoned vet though, he's done enough sanding in his life so he hasn't sanded in 8 years, got a sanding guy that comes behind us, and thats fine by me :thumbsup:


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## RenoRob (Nov 6, 2012)

Grit said:


> No worries about deleting, he cant use a computer lol, seriously. :lol:
> 
> He is very old school, but his work is impeccable. Good thing about him being a seasoned vet though, he's done enough sanding in his life so he hasn't sanded in 8 years, got a sanding guy that comes behind us, and thats fine by me :thumbsup:


Sweet deal! :thumbup: it's best to avoid sanding altogether :jester:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Grit said:


> 2buck knows his shiz... but I gotta do whats best for WE (my family) and not me, and right now thats doing what my boss says and how he says.
> its like this...
> 
> Listen to boss... No boss
> ...


Why can't I find a grasshopper like grit


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Dont beat yourself up to much about it Grit, We have all made mistakes, Thats the only way a dumb human will learn anything.

I did corners by hand, One side at a time for 12 years, And sorry but its still the sharpest and best corner you can make, But to slow and labour intensive.

I have to admire a dude thats thinking of family, So set your alarm clock, Get up, Get to work and try try try, Yes you will screw up but guess what, It can always be fixed and you can ask here what the hell to do.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Grit said:


> No worries about deleting, he cant use a computer lol, seriously.
> 
> He is very old school, but his work is impeccable. Good thing about him being a seasoned vet though, he's done enough sanding in his life so he hasn't sanded in 8 years, got a sanding guy that comes behind us, and thats fine by me


No way dude, steal that sanding job:yes:

I actually like sanding, but when you get to sand :jesterERFECT:jester: work like mine, it's no big deal:whistling2:

Don't know what it is with some guys, they think dealing with sanding is like dealing with a used tampon or something. Sure you get dusty and dirty, but were blue collar, and what one of us never passed by a deep mud puddle when we were young, or played in a sand box, were men, we love getting dirty.........but sanding equals payday

Think it's more of a hour working union thing, those guys feel sanding is beneath them, along with mixing mud and spotting screws (although I might agree with the spotting screws thing:whistling2

Don't matter how well you coat everything if the guy sanding it out screws everything up,,,, sanding is a very IMPORTANT aspect of the job. Offer to do the sanding down the road, bigger pay days.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> I did corners by hand, One side at a time for 12 years, And sorry but its still the sharpest and best corner you can make,


Holly:blink:

Now that you and Mudstar are best of buds/mates:whistling2:,I guess it will half to be me who is mean to you "Cazna the wrong"

I call Bull Chit:furious::furious:


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## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

His reason for no sanding it that it fudged up his respiratory system, I say use masks but I doubt he ever did. Don't let me lie to you though, we do sand the occasional small job, but the three and four story homes we've been cranking out, nada. I make it a part of my job to always sand his corner beads and arch beads before bed coat and skim coat, to ensure good coats and finishes. 

Thanks to the ones with the words of encouragement, you'd have to know me personally to know how appreciative of 1. Having a job. 2. Having a job that gets me fourty hrs a week or a lot more. 3. Having a job that pays you for the full total hrs you are on the job rather than how much production (in my case, how many cars showed up at the wash that day). 

I made more on my first paycheck than I made in two months of full time work at my previous job and I actually enjoy the work I do now.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

cazna said:


> I did corners by hand, One side at a time for 12 years, And sorry but its still the sharpest and best corner you can make, But to slow and labour intensive.



I'll agree with that 100%. Nothing beats an angle done with a good knife.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Grit said:


> His reason for no sanding it that it fudged up his respiratory system, I say use masks but I doubt he ever did. Don't let me lie to you though, we do sand the occasional small job, but the three and four story homes we've been cranking out, nada. I make it a part of my job to always sand his corner beads and arch beads before bed coat and skim coat, to ensure good coats and finishes.
> 
> Thanks to the ones with the words of encouragement, you'd have to know me personally to know how appreciative of 1. Having a job. 2. Having a job that gets me fourty hrs a week or a lot more. 3. Having a job that pays you for the full total hrs you are on the job rather than how much production (in my case, how many cars showed up at the wash that day).
> 
> I made more on my first paycheck than I made in two months of full time work at my previous job and I actually enjoy the work I do now.


Whats a sanding Mask:blink::whistling2:

See, your boss knows his stuff, he knows about rough sanding in between coats:thumbup:,,,, Unlike that certain Drywall talk member on here, who thinks rough sanding is a optional step


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> Dont beat yourself up to much about it Grit, We have all made mistakes, Thats the only way a dumb human will learn anything.
> 
> I did corners by hand, One side at a time for 12 years, And sorry but its still the sharpest and best corner you can make, But to slow and labour intensive.
> 
> I have to admire a dude thats thinking of family, So set your alarm clock, Get up, Get to work and try try try, Yes you will screw up but guess what, It can always be fixed and you can ask here what the hell to do.





mudslingr said:


> I'll agree with that 100%. Nothing beats an angle done with a good knife.:yes:


 Take a sliver off the top and both sides ...then file for your shape.
I can't.... for the life of me ..block or skim an angle with a new hyde [too flexible] I do my best work when It's good and stiff!


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> No way dude, steal that sanding job:yes:
> 
> I actually like sanding, but when you get to sand :jesterERFECT:jester: work like mine, it's no big deal:whistling2:
> 
> ...


Agree with everything you said.....well....except >>> PERFECT<<<

If I start it, then I'm finishing it all the way through.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Grit said:


> If you have read my introduction, you will know i'm a rookie in the finishing biz. Spotting screws and being a help, taped a firewall and thats it. Well yesterday my boss and I started on a house, and he picks out a small closet and says this is yours; spot it, tape it, bed and skim it. I thought thats cool, its only about 4x4x10 so should be easy. I spot the whole house and get to work on the closet. Things are going good and I finish my tape coat. Next day I second coat the spots and head back to closet..... an hour later I throw my pan in frustration. Boss hears the commotion and asks what up and I tell him, "bout to rip all this ****ing **** down and start over"...he says why? I say "Because I couldnt pay someone a thousand dollars to claim this work as theirs." he asks "are you trying to coat both sides of the corner?" I say "ya...Mother*******sonofa*****! "
> 
> How could I be so stupid?!? Corner 101, do one side at a time so your insides dont look like chickens*it. I still havent got over it. I work fast so I have plenty of time to watch my boss and I KNEW the corner rule and STILL did it! Been working hard to earn the right to keep a 4, 6, and 8 inch knife in my box and i'm pissing it away! :furious:


 **** the closet...:whistling2: He needs to let you block the angles through the entire house! 
Then boss man can walk you thru ,,scrappin and sanding showing you how to start and stop ...where to leave stop laps [seams/butts] You need more ROOM..To learn.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Holly:blink: "Cazna the wrong"
> 
> I call Bull Chit:furious::furious:


Why is it that i use my 2.5 dm after the corner roller and the papertape drys rounded????????? Flushers......Also rounded, But maybe your way with a flusher then a sand out does make it sharp???? Angleheads seem to leave a slight rounded paper corner, Not sharp.......Unless i use fuse, Then i can get it sharp.......But just how much fuse is left concerns me, I dont what to do a saska, Yet kiwimans being fusing corners for a while now with not problem.



mudslingr said:


> I'll agree with that 100%. Nothing beats an angle done with a good knife.:yes:


Sharp as man, All mud in there and super sharp isnt it.

But to slow, The machinetools do it good enough, Even if it is sharp 3 coats of paint make it rounded anyway.



moore said:


> **** the closet...:whistling2: He needs to let you block the angles through the entire house!
> Then boss man can walk you thru ,,scrappin and sanding showing you how to start and stop ...where to leave stop laps [seams/butts] You need more ROOM..To learn.


Moores right, You cant get a good swing going in a closet, You need a bigger area..........But then again............some closets are big now.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Why is it that i use my 2.5 dm after the corner roller and the papertape drys rounded????????? Flushers......Also rounded, But maybe your way with a flusher then a sand out does make it sharp???? Angleheads seem to leave a slight rounded paper corner, Not sharp.......Unless i use fuse, Then i can get it sharp.......But just how much fuse is left concerns me, I dont what to do a saska, Yet kiwimans being fusing corners for a while now with not problem.


Maybe Kiwiman will let you apprentice under him:whistling2:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cazna said:


> Why is it that i use my 2.5 dm after the corner roller and the papertape drys rounded????????? Flushers......Also rounded, But maybe your way with a flusher then a sand out does make it sharp???? Angleheads seem to leave a slight rounded paper corner, Not sharp.......Unless i use fuse, Then i can get it sharp.......But just how much fuse is left concerns me, I dont what to do a saska, Yet kiwimans being fusing corners for a while now with not problem.


I've had that happen with paper as well, it's as if it shrinks and pulls the tape out a fraction in the corner, dunno if it's the type of mud used or what.
Fibafuse in corners is a b!tch if taping by hand and not rolling, too easily cut with the knife, I use a 1" corner trowel (cut down bigger one) for doing tight corners but even then you've got to be careful not to cut it.
Columbia roller and Northstar 2.5" anglehead with fuse and no problems, and thats taping with Sheetrock midweight which is soft as pig poo, just prefill gaps 5mm or bigger with Tradeset.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

mudslingr said:


> I'll agree with that 100%. Nothing beats an angle done with a good knife.:yes:


your both kidding


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> your both kidding


 That's a shame ..You don't know how to run an angle by hand!:blink:


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

If you are not capable of doing as good a job with hand tools as with automatic tools, then you have no business running them! The best hand finisher still makes the best tool finisher. JMO.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> That's a shame ..You don't know how to run an angle by hand!:blink:


I could run a angle by hand, question is????? why would I:blink:

Oh my God







, I'm on team Mudstar


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> your both kidding



Not at all ! The only way to get a crisp angle everytime is with a good knife. Nothing looks sharper than a nice knife finished angle. Do I do all my angles by hand ? Hell no ! I ain't a schmuck. But I do notice the difference.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Not at all ! The only way to get a crisp angle everytime is with a good knife. Nothing looks sharper than a nice knife finished angle. Do I do all my angles by hand ? Hell no ! I ain't a schmuck. But I do notice the difference.:yes:


Tools can be like women,,,, sometimes you can end up with the wrong ones:yes:

$400 dollar angle head vs $15 dollar hand tool, where have I heard this argument before:whistling2:

Angles/internals are the one system a taper will change up the must throughout their career, until they find that perfect method plus head combination:yes:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh my God
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you made a typo....I fixed it for you


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Wouldn't matter if the angle head cost $1,000,000. I can still do a better angle with a $4 knife. The angle head just allows me to do both sides at once, quickly and neatly. It's made for speed. I'm not disillusioned. But I'm still going to use them of course !


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Not at all ! The only way to get a crisp angle everytime is with a good knife. Nothing looks sharper than a nice knife finished angle. Do I do all my angles by hand ? Hell no ! I ain't a schmuck. But I do notice the difference.:yes:


Lets fire out some theory:yes:

When doing angles by machine, don't apply the principles of doing things by hand.

In first horrible looking pic:whistling2:, when doing one side of a angle, your loading a fair amount of mud on, even if your trying to keep it tight. Then next day your doing the other side, so now you have a lot of mud in the apex, which can lead to hair line cracking down the road (where red arrow is pointing).

Then I'm sure some guys have had to run their angle heads over tapes that have been installed by hand, it's like running over speed bumps, their all wavy. just like boxes, angle heads run true.

Ist pic, red represents first coat by hand

2nd pic, red is 2nd coat by hand


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Lets fire out some theory:yes:
> 
> When doing angles by machine, don't apply the principles of doing things by hand.
> 
> ...


Sure, but you can get hairline cracks with an angle head too. But we just sand them out.

Only point I'm trying to make is that I can do a much nicer looking angle with a knife than any machine can. Any of us good hand finishers can.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Machined angles

1st pic, the grey is the tape installed

2nd pic, red is what you want to cover

With machined angles, there is no mud build up in the apex, so no potential for hair line cracking. plus lets not forget, the tape on install was rolled tight to wall surface, then flushed with a angle head that runs true.

It's all about hiding the edge of the tape, not burying the whole tape. there should be barely any sanding when doing your angles, just sanding of the edges. Too many guys try to LOAD too much mud into the angles, theres no need to with machines.

Angles are one of the few places where the painter is going to be your buddy, they rough them up good.

Go back and read a lot of the Captains post, he kept saying, quit thinking like your doing them by hand, you just half to bury the edge,,,,, keep it tight and true:yes:

Something for some of the guys new on the machines to think about:thumbup:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Ok. But now what about top angles where it's bevel to bevel and you have rolled your tape into it where it's not flush with the board when it drys ? You have a void to fill now. Even though this has nothing to do with what I was trying to get at.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Ok. But now what about top angles where it's bevel to bevel and you have rolled your tape into it where it's not flush with the board when it drys ? You have a void to fill now. Even though this has nothing to do with what I was trying to get at.


2.5 DM , super piss runny mud, Light touch on the head (don't let the springs in gauge:yes, puts a fill on the tape.

Besides, if your in a 10x10 room, there would be only one top angle like that. And with this new [email protected] drywall these days with their bevells so deep, we have been pre-filling the uprights, so they can remain square with the angle head (or nail spotter after tape installed). Our drywallers are now under orders to avoid bevells in the corners if they can on the verticals.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

See ! So in order to do it better you had to do it by hand first ! 

I actually prefer using the flushers rather than the angle heads just for that reason. It's easier to leave a fill if you have to.

I hear ya 2buck and I know exactly what you're saying.:blink::jester: Believe me, I know how it all works. Again, I was talking about how much crisper it looks done with the right knife. And again, I would not give up my flushers for anything. Been using them since they came out.:thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Lets fire out some theory:yes:
> 
> When doing angles by machine, don't apply the principles of doing things by hand.
> 
> ...


 .....


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> .....


Doing your angles by machine will double your yearly income, now whose going







:whistling2:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

If angles coated by hand are better looking than angles done with a roller then angleheads then I need to get my eyes checked. Try running an anglebox over angles that were wiped by hand:furious:. Then run the box over angles that were rolled and glazes with an anglehead:yes::thumbsup:. That should clarify any uncertainty


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## Grit (Mar 21, 2013)

wow, quite a pissing match my rough day started.:thumbup:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Doing your angles by machine will double your yearly income


:thumbsup: This fact was not in dispute.



chris said:


> Try running an anglebox over angles that were wiped by hand. Then run the box over angles that were rolled and glazes with an anglehead. That should clarify any uncertainty


I agree but I was not referring to procedure. Just final product. We all know or should know that running angle heads over hand taped angles isn't the best way of doing them.



Grit said:


> wow, quite a pissing match my rough day started.:thumbup:


  No pissing match here ! Just a friendly discussion. We all know machines are quicker. That's what they're designed for.






If you had no machine tools, would you be confident in doing just as good a job or better ? Or would you quit taping if machines were not allowed ? I know I can BUT it would be a hell of a lot slower.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

No one has told me how to stop my inside angle tape drying with a round in it yet, Thats behind a rolller then flusher or angle head??

I had a Northstar roller, Sold it, Got a new tapepro and a finishpro, Still the same.

Doesnt do that when doing it by hand.

By fussyness level had to drop for machine tool corners, It was driving me mad, I had to accept its good enough and only i notice that. And no, I wouldnt do them by hand now, But i do if its a small bathroom and im like wow, Look at those sharp as corners


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## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

Cazna do you use tin flusher to wipe check to see if that's the problem my buddy was having that problem .... Went and got a new 2.5" can am tin flusher and no problems.... Also see if it's leaving mud in the point making it dry rounded with little excess mud in there.


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

im going with 2 buck on this one machine all the way 
been finishing angles by hand for many years they due look cisp

now i finnish with machine
way better, faster , easier to sand and they look good 
painters like the corners


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Doing your angles by machine will double your yearly income, now whose going
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It don't really matter anymore...The l/w boards are gonna put me under,,usg n/g certainteed It's ****ing ****!!! Just a matter of time till I throw my finishing tools in the James river!! Running a hanging crew is all I have left! either that or get a real job


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## whos ya mudder (Mar 2, 2013)

*one hellova day*

just wondering if any of u guys ever finish your angles with a trowel instead of a knife. that way you can do both sides at the same time :yes:
i have been finishing by hand for years and thats the way i always did it. way faster than doing one side at a time. although nothing is faster than machine finishing.
maybe you should try that technique Grit being as your boss dont like the use of machines:whistling2:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

whos ya mudder said:


> just wondering if any of u guys ever finish your angles with a trowel instead of a knife. that way you can do both sides at the same time :yes:
> i have been finishing by hand for years and thats the way i always did it. way faster than doing one side at a time. although nothing is faster than machine finishing.
> maybe you should try that technique Grit being as your boss dont like the use of machines:whistling2:


I use the butterfly float to pull my angles. One coat works great leaves a sharp clean angle Minimal sanding.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Is that paint ready?:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Running angles by hand is a bitch!!


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Is that paint ready?:blink:


No it's ready for primer first then paint.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> No it's ready for primer first then paint.


 I thought you were a plasterer? :blink: Looks like your run of the mill DIY Drywall finish to me..:blink: You hold a class ? You teach people to do this???


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> I thought you were a plasterer? :blink: Looks like your run of the mill DIY Drywall finish to me..:blink: You hold a class ? You teach people to do this???


My way of doing drywall is Foreign to most drywallers. May not be the best pitcher but Don't worry it paints solid results Satisfaction guaranteed. You don't see any seames Afterwords.


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## whos ya mudder (Mar 2, 2013)

moore, did you use a butterfly knife and loose your skin or a regular one. either way, doing it with a trowel saves skin, and i find it gives a much sharper angle than a butterfly knife, which always seems to leave a much more rounded edge.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

I thought you were running glazers now Moore?


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