# should columbia make a 5-1/2 " box



## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

Wanted some opinions if Columbia made a 5-1/2" box would you buy it ? Trying to get Aaron to start making them but he needs to know if people would buy them.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

sdrdrywall said:


> Wanted some opinions if Columbia made a 5-1/2" box would you buy it ? Trying to get Aaron to start making them but he needs to know if people would buy them.


Well.... he would sell two. One to you and one to me!


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

Come on pt you know u need one too:jester:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't even use their 7" or 8". lol!
As much as I love Columbia and support any and all future tool endeavours I think their money could be better spent on a prototype of some other kind. I truthfully don't even see myself using a 7" or an 8" in the future either. I find it's just an extra step that I don't need.
I tape, run my 10", run my 12" and I'm done!
And my flats look wicked awesome! So I'm not going to change what already works great for me. I know some guys run 3 boxes but I just don't find it necessary. 
I tried convincing Aaron a little while back to work on some flushers. :thumbsup: Personally I think that would be awesome. Not everyone likes using angle heads, some like running flushers better. This way Columbia can have the best of both worlds and so could their clients.

Plus a 5-1/2" box wouldn't even fill the bevels on certainteed drywall! :laughing:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

I already have a 5 1/2 inch and imagine it will last quite awhile.
But if Columbia had of had a 5 1/2 inch box ,when I bought mine, I would have bought theirs instead as I try to stick with Columbia tools.

What they might want to try and build is THE best box handle on the market, that can do everything, extendible, with a pivoting head to deal with high and low horizontal joins, you get the idea... then Everyone, what ever brand box they own would want to buy one = sales 

5.5 inch box is not main stream enough, not everyones a tool whore like Cazna


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

I got a 5.5" DM box and use it quite a lot, I think any auto tool user would have a use for them if they got one. I hope Capt doesn't read this but I would buy a 13" box if Columbia made one....just for a wider coverage over the 10" box.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I don't even use their 7" or 8". lol!
> As much as I love Columbia and support any and all future tool endeavours I think their money could be better spent on a prototype of some other kind. I truthfully don't even see myself using a 7" or an 8" in the future either. I find it's just an extra step that I don't need.
> I tape, run my 10", run my 12" and I'm done!
> And my flats look wicked awesome! So I'm not going to change what already works great for me. I know some guys run 3 boxes but I just don't find it necessary.
> ...



Just wondering PT. Why go 10" then 12"? The rebate is only 5" wide. Why not go 8" then 10" if you only want to run 2 boxes.

To answer the original question, I have a 5 1/2 DM. It gets a bit of use but no where as much as it used to. I have a Tape pro with the reducer plate, it holds more. So I would probably not bother to get another one.
The 5 1/2 is great for nocoat though.:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes...:yes: I would love to have one for no-coat.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> not everyones a tool whore like Cazna


Why yes, Why yes i am and i shall not lie :whistling2::yes:

Anything to make a job easier and interesting and im in, Got a small gas heater and airless paint sprayer recently, Mmm yeah, New tools almost has the same affect as herbal horn pills :no:

The 5.5 is a wicked as nail spotter :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Yes...:yes: I would love to have one for no-coat.


Moore wants a 13inch box for no coat dont you moore :whistling2:

Actually, Now that you mention it, Just how wide to you take your no coat?? What size trowel?? A 14?? Thems some massive no coats you bust out bro.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> Moore wants a 13inch box for no coat dont you moore :whistling2:
> 
> Actually, Now that you mention it, Just how wide to you take your no coat?? What size trowel?? A 14?? Thems some massive no coats you bust out bro.


 ,,,And them's some crooked ass houses I work on bro..

It's my no-coat


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

12 inch box is made for a final touchup ,Not a 2 coat.. If your applying 2 coat finish,, 7 and 10 is plenty good. A tight 12 with the right mix will eliminate alot of sanding and touchup by hand. 10 on first coat,,, just make work Harder. Kinda like dumpin dirt in a hole without packing and filling it with layers.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> ,,,And them's some crooked ass houses I work on bro..
> 
> It's my no-coat


They sure are, That barn was whacked, Amazing work :thumbsup:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

betterdrywall said:


> 12 inch box is made for a final touchup ,Not a 2 coat.. If your applying 2 coat finish,, 7 and 10 is plenty good. A tight 12 with the right mix will eliminate alot of sanding and touchup by hand. 10 on first coat,,, just make work Harder. Kinda like dumpin dirt in a hole without packing and filling it with layers.


I agree. We have always used a 7, then 10. Now we use an 8, then 10. 12, when we do smooth and need just a little smoother.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> Just wondering PT. Why go 10" then 12"? The rebate is only 5" wide. Why not go 8" then 10" if you only want to run 2 boxes.
> 
> To answer the original question, I have a 5 1/2 DM. It gets a bit of use but no where as much as it used to. I have a Tape pro with the reducer plate, it holds more. So I would probably not bother to get another one.
> The 5 1/2 is great for nocoat though.:yes:


Truthfully, there is no particular reason why I use a 10 then 12.
My biggest reason is, when I bought my whole kit, they only had 10 & 12's.
And through out the years I've accumulated another set of boxes. So I have 2 sets of Columbia Fat-Boy's. 2 10's & 2 12's.
So why would I bother buying something else. This works great for me.



betterdrywall said:


> 12 inch box is made for a final touchup ,Not a 2 coat.. If your applying 2 coat finish,, 7 and 10 is plenty good. A tight 12 with the right mix will eliminate alot of sanding and touchup by hand. 10 on first coat,,, just make work Harder. Kinda like dumpin dirt in a hole without packing and filling it with layers.


Final touch-up? How many touch-ups do you have?
I don't believe in touch-ups period! When I'm done, I'm 100% done!
I walk out of that house & I don't come back in!
And as far as I'm concerned, running a box is running a box.
I don't care what size it is. Fact of the matter is, I already have 4 boxes total. I don't need more. Even if it is the way other's do it.
The only advantage I can see to a 5 1/2" is for No-Coat.
But even then...I have enough tools that I can barely keep organized.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Whats going on PT,only 4 boxes. Even I have more than that,I have 6.:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

gazman said:


> Whats going on PT,only 4 boxes. Even I have more than that,I have 6.:whistling2:


:laughing: I know! I'm slacking!
But in my defence, I only have two arms.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Final touch-up? How many touch-ups do you have?
> I don't believe in touch-ups period! When I'm done, I'm 100% done!
> I walk out of that house & I don't come back in!
> And as far as I'm concerned, running a box is running a box.
> ...


Well, what betterdrywall is saying is true, he's speaking in a different lingo than you...... American:whistling2:

In canuck terms he saying it's a skim coat or sanding coat. Once your bed coat is proper or level (not proud) your putting another coat to hide imperfections, making sanding and check out more easy, Plus he did say the 12" is not meant for loading, which I see a lot of guys do. Their the bad sheep of the flock:whistling2:

Some knock the 12" box. But I feel it leaves a better sanding coat left behind, and it aides better on walls over 8 feet high (larger crowns on the walls sometimes) But after you sand and measure your joint, it ends up being only 10" wide so.......

I can see a 10" finish on 8 foot high walls, sometimes I'm tempted to do it. Think I would try a 10" then a 8" with my boxing method. I have experiment out in garages by running a 6" coat down the middle (don't own a smaller box), looked fairly good when you sanded it:blink:..... see what this site gets you doing

I only run a 10" box for KD ceiling, and ALL the DWC demand a 12" finish. But when the job is said and done, they can't tell you didn't 12" them out,,,,, so go figure ....... But I still Like my big 12" to finish things off:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well, what betterdrywall is saying is true, he's speaking in a different lingo than you...... American
> 
> In canuck terms he saying it's a skim coat or sanding coat. Once your bed coat is proper or level (not proud) your putting another coat to hide imperfections, making sanding and check out more easy, Plus he did say the 12" is not meant for loading, which I see a lot of guys do. Their the bad sheep of the flock:whistling2:
> 
> ...


Same here 2buck!
But like you said, this site is great for learning and taking in allot of different methods. However, it also causes you to question or second guess your own ways as well. I already have something that works for me, that's fast, and makes money so I see no reason for changing it.
If someone mailed me a free box then I might! :jester:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Same here 2buck!
> But like you said, this site is great for learning and taking in allot of different methods. However, it also causes you to question or second guess your own ways as well. I already have something that works for me, that's fast, and makes money so I see no reason for changing it.
> If someone mailed me a free box then I might! :jester:


 PT ,,Seriously ,, There is no rules when it comes to finishing.. On the other hand ,,If your not willing to try other methods , You will only be hurting yourself in the long run,, Think quality production. 
Do you actually think you can first coat with a 10 inch box Faster than I can with my 7? And have it turn out as clean? You can only apply so much fill during a single pass,, Plus you would not be able to run the mud as thick as I do with my 7 inch. 
Do yourself a favour,, Tape all the Flats and Butts,, apply all the cornerbead and first coat with a 7 inch,, bead with 8 inch and thick mud. Then next day run out your angles,, and finish your hand work,,, next day run final coat with 10 . One more thing I should point out.. every 10 inch box I have run that has been used for first coat only has always been wore out and hard to adjust,, first coating with a 10 is hard on the box.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Tim0282 said:


> Well.... he would sell two. One to you and one to me!


 
Three. I'll take one for skimming cieling screws & running no-coat.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Muddauber said:


> Three. I'll take one for skimming cieling screws & running no-coat.


 
" ceiling " Need more coffee !:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> Do you actually think you can first coat with a 10 inch box Faster than I can with my 7? And have it turn out as clean? You can only apply so much fill during a single pass,, Plus you would not be able to run the mud as thick as I do with my 7 inch.


I'm thinking the 10" Columbia Fat Boy of PT's could let him run further each fill than your 7" (unless someone's now come out with a fat 7" version), and give him more distance when he runs his 12", because of having more mud on the wall from his 1st coat. So it could be possible that his way might be as fast or almost as fast or even at times faster, when all factors are considered. And if he's double boxing 2buck style on his 10" fill coat, in place of traditional double boxing or wiping down with a knife, thick mud isn't as necessary.

I'm thinking whether a 10" box or 12" box makes sense for the final coat might depend some on one's jobs. For myself, up till now it's been 10" Fat Boy for 1st coat, followed by 12" Columbia finishing box - the 12" to especially help take care of things like feathering out board unevenness and high shoulders more, which I run into a fair amount of. And the 12" for at times boxing butts, which we can get a # of on our commercial jobs.

I like your thought of using a box requiring less effort for the 1st fill, and especially now with my shoulders giving me some grief. I'm thinking to try my 8" Fat Boy that I've used not much of till now, followed by 12" finishing box, on at least the flats, and see how that might turn out. If I remember right enough, the last time I did something like that a bit, it turned out nice enough, maybe even a little nicer than 10 then 12". It maybe sanded out a little nicer.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

F-ME! I really tried to read all of the last post # 23 to be exact,, but I just could not do it. First off is it my responsiblity to make sure the Chit board that is delivered and installed on my jobs gets a wide azz 12 inch coat?????? and that is installed on Chit Lumber... If I were a Big Time Big Shot Know It All Drywall Manufatuer,,, The board woulkd have an edge that would excpet 1/2 inc h tape and be finished out with a 5 and 1/2 inch box Nuff Said... But reguardless I aint nuthin.. Just a dumbazz drywaller. if only I had the money the real dumkbazzes have.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> F-ME! I really tried to read all of the last post # 23 to be exact,, but I just could not do it.


:laughing:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> F-ME! I really tried to read all of the last post # 23 to be exact,, but I just could not do it. First off is it my responsiblity to make sure the Chit board that is delivered and installed on my jobs gets a wide azz 12 inch coat?????? and that is installed on Chit Lumber... If I were a Big Time Big Shot Know It All Drywall Manufatuer,,, The board woulkd have an edge that would excpet 1/2 inc h tape and be finished out with a 5 and 1/2 inch box Nuff Said... But reguardless I aint nuthin.. Just a dumbazz drywaller. God if only I had the money the real dumkbazzes have.


I agree.

But I was thinking a bit more on what you said. One possible problem might be that if it were made that easy, they wouldn't need finishers like me, or need me that badly. The more the problems, the more they need me.

Or if it was made easy, maybe I'd move on to something better then.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

JustMe;60656[B said:


> ]I'm thinking to try my 8" Fat Boy that I've used not much of till now, followed by 12" finishing box, on at least the flats, and see how that might turn out.[/B]


That is what we do. When I started with PA, he was doing a 10" block and 12" skim. Then we got to experimenting, and tried an 8" block and 12" skim. We've been doing that ever since. His 8" box holds quite a bit of mud, and is plenty for filling in the bevel.

Don't tell anyone, but today, I forgot to run two ceilings in a walk-in closet. When I found them I had the 5.5" box on the handle, so ran them with that. See how they turn out tomorrow.:thumbsup:

At the plant, we ran a 3 coat system, 7, 10, & 12. I always thought the 3rd coat was kind of pointless as long as the first 2 were done right.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

fr8train said:


> That is what we do. When I started with PA, he was doing a 10" block and 12" skim. Then we got to experimenting, and tried an 8" block and 12" skim. We've been doing that ever since. His 8" box holds quite a bit of mud, and is plenty for filling in the bevel.
> 
> Don't tell anyone, but today, I forgot to run two ceilings in a walk-in closet. When I found them I had the 5.5" box on the handle, so ran them with that. See how they turn out tomorrow.:thumbsup:
> 
> At the plant, we ran a 3 coat system, 7, 10, & 12. I always thought the 3rd coat was kind of pointless as long as the first 2 were done right.


Thanks for the thumbs up. Now I will give it a serious try.

I've used 3 box sizes on some jobs, mostly on stand ups where natural light was an issue. Didn't see any advantage in the finish, if as you said, the 1st 2 were done right. So I quit doing it. Especially after I got onto using 2buck's boxing style for things like that.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fr8train said:


> That is what we do. When I started with PA, he was doing a 10" block and 12" skim. Then we got to experimenting, and tried an 8" block and 12" skim. We've been doing that ever since. His 8" box holds quite a bit of mud, and is plenty for filling in the bevel.
> 
> Don't tell anyone, but today, I forgot to run two ceilings in a walk-in closet. When I found them I had the 5.5" box on the handle, so ran them with that. See how they turn out tomorrow.:thumbsup:
> 
> At the plant, we ran a 3 coat system, 7, 10, & 12. I always thought the 3rd coat was kind of pointless as long as the first 2 were done right.


I got a taping buddy who goes 8 then 12, looks fine to me. I keep teasing him I want to run my 10" over his 8", But he wont let me, in case he likes it. Then he would half to buy a 10" box

And to throw my 2 bucks worth in on the 7,10,12 method

Many moons ago, I was on a piece work job (apartments) where there were hand tapers. By order of steps, they would

coat and let dry 1st day, rough sand skim 2nd day, finish sand 3rd day

I would

7" let dry 1st day, rough sand and 10" 2nd day, rough sand and 12" 3rd day. finish sand 4th day.

yes I could out speed them coating out in a eight hour day, but since taping is based on a 24 hour cycle (drying time), they were beating me by the days clock. Plus toss in a extra rough sand by me...... So I dropped the 7" box next time around, and things looked fine.

I chalked it up to the better mud that was coming on the market at the time. Early mud back in the day sucked (but we didn't know any better) All mud was more like taping mud, meaning it had a lot of glue in it. Plus it shrank back more, thats why the 1st coat on bead was a hotmud back then. (plus drying time). It also left a lot more porosity behind, so a lot of guys would chase behind with a knife.

So IMO, some just stuck with what they were taught, or newbs are taught by old school guys saying "go 7,10,12".... but really, the muds today are so much better. Sometimes there to much focus on tools and system, instead of actual focus on what a product is doing when applied,,,,, like mud.

I feel the industry has hit it's apex in tools, but in products there's still room for improvement . Maybe a mud that can coat a joint in one shot,,,,, and that doesn't need sanding, but now I'm dreaming:whistling2:

Let us know how that 5" over the 8" looked fr8train


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

fr8train said:


> That is what we do. When I started with PA, he was doing a 10" block and 12" skim. Then we got to experimenting, and tried an 8" block and 12" skim. We've been doing that ever since. His 8" box holds quite a bit of mud, and is plenty for filling in the bevel.
> 
> Don't tell anyone, but today, I forgot to run two ceilings in a walk-in closet. When I found them I had the 5.5" box on the handle, so ran them with that. See how they turn out tomorrow.:thumbsup:
> 
> At the plant, we ran a 3 coat system, 7, 10, & 12. I always thought the 3rd coat was kind of pointless as long as the first 2 were done right.


 Yea 8 then 12 here also :thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

8 box ..10 box.. 12 by hand ...If the ceilings were texture I would have skipped the 12..Iv'e been thinking about 8 THEN 12 ..Fr8train sealed that deal for me..I kept thinking it would work ..Now I know.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

moore said:


> 8 box ..10 box.. 12 by hand ...If the ceilings were texture I would have skipped the 12..Iv'e been thinking about 8 THEN 12 ..Fr8train sealed that deal for me..I kept thinking it would work ..Now I know.


Looks like you need to buy a 12" box.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Are you using a 5 inch box for your screws on the ceiling?


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

I think Aaron should just make one for sd


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> Are you using a 5 inch box for your screws on the ceiling?


NO Tim ..Just playing around with the boxes. 3 coats by hand ..heavy mud out the bucket..on then wipe clean off...8 box skim...Then level 5 . I traced behind the 8 box on those ceiling screws... almost a scrape really.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> NO Tim ..Just playing around with the boxes. 3 coats by hand ..heavy mud out the bucket..on then wipe clean off...8 box skim...Then level 5 . I traced behind the 8 box on those ceiling screws... almost a scrape really.


Don't know if you sand with a PC,,(another darkside tool), but if you do, then running them screws with an eight box will sand out withOUT leaving any damage to the PAPER,,, LOL,,,,

I know,,, I'm unconventional !!!!!


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Don't know if you sand with a PC,,(another darkside tool), but if you do, then running them screws with an eight box will sand out withOUT leaving any damage to the PAPER,,, LOL,,,,
> 
> I know,,, I'm unconventional !!!!!


So true, Capt!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SAND WHAT!!:blink: Theres a sand pile in the front of the garage...Is that what you guys talkin bout??


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Really tho,,,I will roll @ wipe that ceiling with USG plus 3 ..Then sand out the over laps with 220... I swear:whistling2:!! You ole timers are all about sand.sand.sand!!!:wheelchair:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

You are saying you don't sand all of the flats and butts? You roll thin mud on the whole surface, wipe with a knife and buff/sand?
Sounds good.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> Really tho,,,I will roll @ wipe that ceiling with USG plus 3 ..Then sand out the over laps with 220... I swear:whistling2:!! You ole timers are all about sand.sand.sand!!!:wheelchair:


LOVE that avitar!!!!! You remind me of me,,,

If I were you, and you were me,,, then you'd do it my way,,,,,,,lol !!!!:thumbup:

Really tho,,, I can finish a job with NO sanding,,, it just takes twice as long and it,,,,,,,,pays,,,,,,,,the same,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Which leads me into the darkside that I am currently in,,,,,,, get it done as fast as you can, without the painters bitchin!!!!!!

That is where the money is!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

JustMe said:


> I agree.
> 
> But I was thinking a bit more on what you said. One possible problem might be that if it were made that easy, they wouldn't need finishers like me, or need me that badly. The more the problems, the more they need me.
> 
> Or if it was made easy, maybe I'd move on to something better then.


 Seriously,, you did bring up some good points ,, everyone has there own method they like to use. Plus I have to remind myself that alot of you guys are finishing for smooth effect. not texture. It is tough to get quality sheetrock these days. I figure if they can actually make sheetrock ,,, well atleast try to make it anyway. They can make with less recess edge.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

betterdrywall said:


> They can make with less recess edge.


Back during the great drywall shortage of the 90's we were getting (I think it was called) Norboard. It was imported from Poland and other European countries. The stacks came as singles all facing the same way. The recessed edge was around 1 1/2" instead of the 2 3/4" we get here.
The board was of a very good quality.


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