# Machine mud sucks



## Mudshark

Some say that Machine Mud Sucks, while others say it is great.

So - does it really suck?


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## Mudshark

One opinion: 

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/double-boxing-results-3034/index2/


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## PrecisionTaping

Okay! First off! What the hell is that!?
I've never even seen a box like that!
I doubt I was even born when that picture was taken...:laughing:







Thats Machine Mud! And I swear by it!! :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudshark said:


> One opinion:
> 
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/double-boxing-results-3034/index2/


- it takes way way way way too long to dry

- issues with mud flaking off when primed

- tends to shrink back more over time

- not enough glue in the mud

- Mud is too soft, rub your hand across a joint, and you will be touching into it.

- need 180 grit or higher to sand it

- must prime right away, due to how soft it is

- machine work will cut into past coats,,,, ie box blades on butts or angle head blades into flats (again, mud is too soft)

- will dump out of mud box like a ice cube block (when mixing)

Pro's

Mud performs better with hand tools,,,,, hence, hand tapers prefer it more than machine tapers (the more you stroke over your work, the more the porosity works out).

very little water needed for mixing.

Good to use in other AP muds, to cut down on porosity (few scoops in with other mud)

Good for 2 coat bead ( if sheet rock is added)


Did I say it takes forever to dry:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Okay! First off! What the hell is that!?
> I've never even seen a box like that!
> I doubt I was even born when that picture was taken...:laughing:
> View attachment 3546
> 
> Thats Machine Mud! And I swear by it!! :thumbsup:


I believe that is their new style mud box PT, we just tossed some in the trash the other day


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## PrecisionTaping

Very funny...
Well I dont know what that list of complaints was about up above. I've been using it for years and I never have those issues. I just love the stuff to death! All my guys do.
If I bring in new mud on our sites then we start getting problems because were not familiar with it. Our mud always dries. Never have that problem. The other day we taped and than 2nd coated on the same day because it was drying so well.


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## mudslingr

2buckcanuck said:


> -
> 
> Good to use in other AP muds, to cut down on porosity (few scoops in with other mud)


I was surprised to see how many hand tapers jumped on that train in the late 90's. I have never tried but others were quite happy with the results while spreading. 
Machine guys ALWAYS had a hard time with fish eyes. Sometimes had to run the box over the joint 3 or 4 times to get it satisfactory. Probably cause it was too loose and soft to start with.
But that was then ! Now might be a different story. I don't know.


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## Mudshark

I will admit to never trying it....

but still seems it is just another all purpose mud which is a comprimise at best.

taping mud for taping
finishing mud for finishing


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## mudslingr

Mudshark said:


> finishing mud for finishing


 I always thought that stuff was a scam and not very consistent. AP is just fine. I can add water myself !


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## PrecisionTaping

mudslingr said:


> I was surprised to see how many hand tapers jumped on that train in the late 90's. I have never tried but others were quite happy with the results while spreading.
> Machine guys ALWAYS had a hard time with fish eyes. Sometimes had to run the box over the joint 3 or 4 times to get it satisfactory. Probably cause it was too loose and soft to start with.
> But that was then ! Now might be a different story. I don't know.


See? Really? Fish eyes? I never get that...Not with Machine Mud..I dont know what everyone has to complain about...im gonna do a video! Thats it! I'll zoom right in on the finish after I pass my boxes and show you how all how damn perfect my seems are! Machine Mud is beautiful!



Mudshark said:


> I will admit to never trying it....
> 
> but still seems it is just another all purpose mud which is a comprimise at best.
> 
> taping mud for taping
> finishing mud for finishing


And what what what!?!? You've never tried it!? Ken.....:no:
You know when I call you by your real name how disappointed I am...:laughing:
You must try it!!!


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## Mudshark

PrecisionTaping said:


> You know when I call you by your real name how disappointed I am...:laughing: You must try it!!!


OK Brian,  seldom see the product here. Think I may have seen it on a Home Depot shelf but never on a jobsite. Just for your sake I will try it out sometime soon.


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> OK Brian,  seldom see the product here. Think I may have seen it on a Home Depot shelf but never on a jobsite. Just for your sake I will try it out sometime soon.


Ya Home Depot should carry it! Try one box! Maybe not for taping, but try it for finishing. See what you think! :thumbsup:


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## Mudder on loverslane

MudShark, don't bother wasting your time, it's ****!! 2buck's list wasn't fair off :thumbsup:. I only use it to skim with, it sands nice when you have the strenght of the all purpose underneath, but other then that it's to soft


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## moore

Mudder on loverslane said:


> MudShark, don't bother wasting your time, it's ****!! 2buck's list wasn't fair off :thumbsup:. I only use it to skim with, it sands nice when you have the strenght of the all purpose underneath, but other then that it's to soft


 Never used machine mud. Never seen mud in a box for that matter.
It sounds like l/w like plus 3 or rapid coat.. which I only use for my roll on wipe off level 5 or onion skins if needed.. gums up my pads when sanding...I agree with mudder ..after the glue mud has been applyed you can throw whatever ya want on top..


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## PrecisionTaping

Hmm...well I guess everyone feels like it sucks. I dont know what conditions are on your jobsites, or how much traffic goes through, I mean I like that its soft mud, I never have to pre-sand. I just scrape any flips or rough edges there might be with my putty knife and good to go. It sands super easy. Maybe it's just because I've been using it for so long that i've grown accustomed to it and don't have any of these problems that everyone else has.
I've painted it allot and our paint never flakes! I never have issues with it.
Oh well..weird.


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> Never used machine mud. Never seen mud in a box for that matter.
> It sounds like l/w like plus 3 or rapid coat.. which I only use for my roll on wipe off level 5 or onion skins if needed.. gums up my pads when sanding...I agree with mudder ..after the glue mud has been applyed you can throw whatever ya want on top..


You guys have it, It's technically a USG product. Captain sheetrock said what colour the lid was before, but I can't remember. If I remember right, think the capt said it was designed to run through the zookie mainly. You only had to add a few cups of water to it, not 8 or 10 cups like other muds. can't remember if he said he liked it or hated it, but you guys do get it south of the boarder. It's a fluffy type mud, feels more like whip cream or shaving cream when working with it. So maybe you Moore, or someone else will know the product name or colour of lid it sells by in the USA......... USG product

Then this can be a North American debate, not just a Canuck one:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudder on loverslane said:


> MudShark, don't bother wasting your time, it's ****!! 2buck's list wasn't fair off :thumbsup:. I only use it to skim with, it sands nice when you have the strenght of the all purpose underneath, but other then that it's to soft


thank you:yes:
You summed it up about right. I find some machine tapers will treat it more as a topping/skimming mud.

and not to totally trash the mud, but sometimes we will order a few boxes. usually when the DWC screws up our mud order. Case in point with the house were doing right now. We ordered for the red mud, meaning the pro-roc red, But they sent us cgc red. So we will mix some MM with the cgc red mud for certain application (screws for example). But as a general stand alone all purpose mud,,,,, no thank you


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## Bazooka-Joe

I will take 2bucks opinion on that one


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## getplastered

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hmm...well I guess everyone feels like it sucks. I dont know what conditions are on your jobsites, or how much traffic goes through, I mean I like that its soft mud, I never have to pre-sand. I just scrape any flips or rough edges there might be with my putty knife and good to go. It sands super easy. Maybe it's just because I've been using it for so long that i've grown accustomed to it and don't have any of these problems that everyone else has.
> I've painted it allot and our paint never flakes! I never have issues with it.
> Oh well..weird.


There are definitely some cons to this mud pt. I've used it for the last couple years. 2buck is right on most of his points; it is very soft, I have had problems flaking, (but I personally think that is in part to rough sanding between coats)' and it marks soooo easy.

My first post on this forum was because I was having issues crossing over my butts and getting a bad ridge that I couldn't sand out...I changed to cgc red and while the problem hasn't completely corrected it has improved.

I know where you're coming from pt...it is such a nice mud to work with....it's so light and fluffy...I loved it. Look at the weight on the box...it's like 17 kgs...while the next box after is like 23...and the next one at my supplier is 27 kgs...! And the boxes are all the same size! That's huge when you're running that through your zook! Then add water to that...

Anyway, if it's working for ya precision, keep on it...i may just get back on your band wagon again...:yes:


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## chris

never seen machinemud. Sounds like a typical lite mud. What is wrong with soft??We use a mud thats soft and we love it,also have been using it for many years. No flaking problems but Id bet dust has somethin to do with that. Ususally bad ideas dont make it out west so Im guessing the stuff either sucks or they passed on Idaho (happens alot)


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## PrecisionTaping

getplastered said:


> There are definitely some cons to this mud pt. I've used it for the last couple years. 2buck is right on most of his points; it is very soft, I have had problems flaking, (but I personally think that is in part to rough sanding between coats)' and it marks soooo easy.
> 
> My first post on this forum was because I was having issues crossing over my butts and getting a bad ridge that I couldn't sand out...I changed to cgc red and while the problem hasn't completely corrected it has improved.
> 
> I know where you're coming from pt...it is such a nice mud to work with....it's so light and fluffy...I loved it. Look at the weight on the box...it's like 17 kgs...while the next box after is like 23...and the next one at my supplier is 27 kgs...! And the boxes are all the same size! That's huge when you're running that through your zook! Then add water to that...
> 
> Anyway, if it's working for ya precision, keep on it...i may just get back on your band wagon again...:yes:


Exactly!! :yes: 
It all depends on your system I guess, and the way you do things. I never have that butt problem because I always run my flats first thing!
Afterwards I tie in my butt joints and beads by hand. So there's no cutting into them when they're wet. And also, I never ever pre-sand!
Which may attribute to everyone else's flaking problems. The mud is so light I just scrape it with my knife. And even that, it hardly takes anything. I hate pre-sanding. I find it makes us look like amateurs!
I always keep everything fairly tight. Don't build up too much, unless its a bad butt or something. So for me, Machine Mud does everything I need it for! Never had any problems with it! 



chris said:


> never seen machinemud. Sounds like a typical lite mud. What is wrong with soft??We use a mud thats soft and we love it,also have been using it for many years. No flaking problems but Id bet dust has somethin to do with that. Ususally bad ideas dont make it out west so Im guessing the stuff either sucks or they passed on Idaho (happens alot)


Yup! Once again, Im a fan of light mud. And like you said, flaking probably has to do with dust.
I only sand once! And thats at the end! If im going to get dirty, It's on pay day only! :thumbsup:


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## Philma Crevices

All we use here are these 2








25lbs and 50lbs, by the box. Green to tape and texture, blue to coat.


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## PrecisionTaping

Philma Crevices said:


> All we use here are these 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25lbs and 50lbs, by the box. Green to tape and texture, blue to coat.


Ya I've used those before. Sherwin Williams (paint store) had some for some reason. I think it was a mistake, or they ordered it custom for someone and the guy never picked them up. So they pawned em off to me. I got a bunch of the green bucket ones. It was good for taping but terrible for coating. I would have liked to try the blue one too but they didn't have any.


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## moore

PrecisionTaping said:


> Ya I've used those before. Sherwin Williams (paint store) had some for some reason. I think it was a mistake, or they ordered it custom for someone and the guy never picked them up. So they pawned em off to me. I got a bunch of the green bucket ones. It was good for taping but terrible for coating. I would have liked to try the blue one too but they didn't have any.


By sound of it PT. the blue [plus 3] is simular to your machine mud..just guessing..Here we have 2 different formulas with the USG green top.

1 is a thin mix very gray ..dries REALLY slow..not much glue to it.
great for texture gives ya plenty of working time.covers well. Tapers here won't tape with it.

The other mix is bone white . lots of glue . Dries like it should . plenty of pocs . like most a/p these days .not good for texture IMO..

No markings on bucket to know which is which.. The only way to tell is the price..The gray is $14.50 a bucket [lowes] the white is $12.50 [lowes] 

While I'm [email protected] [which i seldom do:whistling2:] 
I have always used pro form black top start to finish ,,I tape [email protected] with hot mud ,,but other than that . Black top all the way,,But pro form has changed there mix. It's not the same mix it's been for years..I noticed it back In January when I was working in the city useing city water..I blamed it on the water ,,but that wasn't it..it's has a yellowish color /gritty / doughy..like the factory mixed l/w with a/p that's the best way to describe it.. I cannot texture with this new mix..It just won't let me..
The black top Iv'e been use to Is slick / smooth / dense. HELL TO SAND! It's not just 1 supply sending this new mix out it's all of em.
:blink::thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping

moore said:


> By sound of it PT. the blue [plus 3] is simular to your machine mud..just guessing..Here we have 2 different formulas with the USG green top.
> 
> 1 is a thin mix very gray ..dries REALLY slow..not much glue to it.
> great for texture gives ya plenty of working time.covers well. Tapers here won't tape with it.
> 
> The other mix is bone white . lots of glue . Dries like it should . plenty of pocs . like most a/p these days .not good for texture IMO..
> 
> No markings on bucket to know which is which.. The only way to tell is the price..The gray is $14.50 a bucket [lowes] the white is $12.50 [lowes]
> 
> While I'm [email protected] [which i seldom do:whistling2:]
> I have always used pro form black top start to finish ,,I tape [email protected] with hot mud ,,but other than that . Black top all the way,,But pro form has changed there mix. It's not the same mix it's been for years..I noticed it back In January when I was working in the city useing city water..I blamed it on the water ,,but that wasn't it..it's has a yellowish color /gritty / doughy..like the factory mixed l/w with a/p that's the best way to describe it.. I cannot texture with this new mix..It just won't let me..
> The black top Iv'e been use to Is slick / smooth / dense. HELL TO SAND! It's not just 1 supply sending this new mix out it's all of em.
> :blink::thumbsup:


Hmmm...It's crazy how many different muds and variations of mud there are. Prior to coming on here I had never given it any thought what so ever! I just used Machine Mud because it works great for me and I've never had any problems with it. I just assumed everybody in the world used it :laughing: I guess im a little naive like that.
Its cool to learn all kinds of new stuff however.


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## PrecisionTaping

Hahaha! Look at what I found over on Contractor Talk!







I mean granted....it was on Contractor talk...So it pretty well means nothing...lol!
But it still made me smile! :thumbsup:


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## moore

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha! Look at what I found over on Contractor Talk!
> View attachment 3582
> 
> I mean granted....it was on Contractor talk...So it pretty well means nothing...lol!
> But it still made me smile! :thumbsup:


 He's a carpenter:whistling2:


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## P.A. ROCKER

This guy got more posts than 2buck:blink:.


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## PrecisionTaping

Holy Sh!T!! He does have more post than 2Buck!! :notworthy: All hail!
I didn't think it was possible!!


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Holy Sh!T!! He does have more post than 2Buck!! :notworthy: All hail!
> I didn't think it was possible!!


You will surpass me in 3 months PT:whistling2:

Must be a Ontario thing, That's where that Katoman is from. Looks like the farther north you go, the more they yak









Sorry sir mudslingr:jester:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> You will surpass me in 3 months PT:whistling2:
> 
> Must be a Ontario thing, That's where that Katoman is from. Looks like the farther north you go, the more they yak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry sir mudslingr:jester:


Bahaha! If only I could aspire to such greatness....
Surpassing the almighty 2buckcanuck in posts...:yes:
Doesn't hurt to dream  lol


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## PrecisionTaping

Have I really only been on here two weeks!?


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> Have I really only been on here two weeks!?


Actually you have been on here for 4 weeks, and you already sit at 38th place in post counts. As soon as you reply to this post, you will surpass # 37 (D's)

Who's going to be the new post whore:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Actually you have been on here for 4 weeks, and you already sit at 38th place in post counts. As soon as you reply to this post, you will surpass # 37 (D's)
> 
> Who's going to be the new post whore:whistling2:


There's places for post counts!? Huh...I didn't even know that...
There are surprisingly allot of things I have never clicked on, on this site.
I've never clicked on the "reviews", "community" or "whats new" sub-headings. Even under Forum, I've never clicked on "Introductions", "Business" or "Marketing & sales". Im also pretty sure I've never clicked on the "Plaster Forum" and sure as hell never clicked on "workplace safety" :laughing:
Imagine how many more posts i'd have if I actually explored this site to its fullest...lol.


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## thefinisher

The only "machine mud" I have seen around here is the "machine grade" mud made by proform which is much heavier than there AP mud. The mud we use is Ruco middle weight on all of our houses for all coats. Works perfect. :thumbsup:


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## bmitch

i want to thank some 0f you fellas for giving me a push off the machine mud bandwagon.i loaded my current project with certaintead ap last week. i,m happy with results of that choice.i guess i just got to used to dealing with all the issues associated with running mm. over the yrs and did,nt want to switch.thanks again for this thread.


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## fr8train

Moore, what did you think of the Rapid Coat? I saw in another thread a while back that you tried some after seeing it in one of our pics.


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## Mudstar

still unbelievable you guys posting about a no brainer that machine mud sux. All the experienced tapers I know stay far away from using this lite type mud.

May the force be with you 2buck......................


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## moore

fr8train said:


> Moore, what did you think of the Rapid Coat? I saw in another thread a while back that you tried some after seeing it in one of our pics.


 Yeah..The pic where PA stuck the roller in hot water..
I Picked up a few buckets when working in western VA. ..The Lowes out that way have tons of it.. I run angles and skimed seams with it ..It dries fast I had no problem with it .. It's about the same as USG plus 3 just dries quicker..My local supplys don't carrie it..In fact there trying to push ruco mud now..:furious: 

The last 3 years Iv'e only used l/w [ plus 3] For level 5 when I roll on wipe off ..I mix it half -n- half a/p l/w ... Works well for me , but If anyone has a better method ....I'm easy!


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudstar said:


> still unbelievable you guys posting about a no brainer that machine mud sux. All the experienced tapers I know stay far away from using this lite type mud.
> 
> May the force be with you 2buck......................


I think Mudstar just paid me a complement









Does Mudstar deserve a Thank you









That will make 2 thank yous for him


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> I think Mudstar just paid me a complement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Mudstar deserve a Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will make 2 thank yous for him


 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JustMe

moore said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're right, moore. It would make it *9* thank yous.


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## fr8train

moore said:


> "It dries fast I had no problem with it." "Works well for me , but If anyone has a better method ....I'm easy!"


The best thing about it, IMO, is how fast it dries. It's almost like it sets up like hot mud, sorta. We'll run the flats first thing, spot screws, and hand bomb the beads. By the time we are done, we can pull the butts through the flats w/out tearing them up. Easy Peasy! Also, it's pretty creamy stuff, coats nice, and doesn't shrink much. It's all we've coated with since I started with him.

I would be interested in trying that other USG green lid A/P, the stuff you talk about. The stuff we get is the grey stuff. Never seen a bucket of white USG A/P.


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## punisher

I use cgc reg for tape coat then machine mud for top,it is alittle soft but nice to sand. Every time I click on pics I get the join drywalltalk prompt.anyway around that?Buy the way,how did the meeting go with the pro roc dip****s?


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## fr8train

punisher said:


> Every time I click on pics I get the join drywalltalk prompt.anyway around that?


Are you signed in when you click on the pic?


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## Mudshark

fr8train said:


> Are you signed in when you click on the pic?


 
Yep - sounds like punisher is one of those lurkers in the background. Gotta sign in to see the pics punisher.


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## DLSdrywall

I've used a lot of different kinds of mud there's pro's and con's to all my personal favorite Is certanteed red ap it's good for everything good for taping, coating, and sanding. I love how smooth the box work looks after i use this mud. If i don't use this i lower my standards for the always available cgc red. Machine mud for me, it's only good for hand tapers


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## bmitch

DLSdrywall said:


> I've used a lot of different kinds of mud there's pro's and con's to all my personal favorite Is certanteed red ap it's good for everything good for taping, coating, and sanding. I love how smooth the box work looks after i use this mud. If i don't use this i lower my standards for the always available cgc red. Machine mud for me, it's only good for hand tapers


 with your experience as a machine taper ,why do you think the machine mud is only good for a hand taper?


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## DLSdrywall

b said:


> with your experience as a machine taper ,why do you think the machine mud is only good for a hand taper?


for the simple reason machine mud takes forever to dry, and if you are taping productively then you want coats to dry. I find machine mud takes too long to dry for what i need it for. If you work by hand by the time your done loading the place where you started will most likely be dry so you can start skimming.


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## bmitch

i get it ,i,ve just never been one to coat up a house the same day i string it out.i switched over to certainteed ap 3 months ago ,like the mud but won't run tape with it again.went back to machine mud to run the tape.


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## PrecisionTaping

See 2buck! Quite a few guys do like MachineMud.
That's me, BMitch, GetPlastered and MachineMud who I know all love using it! :yes:


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> See 2buck! Quite a few guys do like MachineMud.
> That's me, BMitch, GetPlastered and MachineMud who I know all love using it! :yes:


wow, 2 northern boys and a frenchmen. machine mud will rule the world soon:whistling2::jester:


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> wow, 2 northern boys and a frenchmen. machine mud will rule the world soon:whistling2::jester:


You know it! :thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck

DLSdrywall said:


> for the simple reason machine mud takes forever to dry, and if you are taping productively then you want coats to dry. I find machine mud takes too long to dry for what i need it for. If you work by hand by the time your done loading the place where you started will most likely be dry so you can start skimming.


And just to add my 2 bucks worth.

I have been on what I call the Union union jobs (by the hour) They love the stuff. They never mix water with their mud. Plus the more you stroke the mud (keep going over it) the more the wall eyes, pin holes, fish eyes, porosity etc work them selves out. Plus it's a very light weight mud, so since they lug a bucket around all day:whistling2:

I'm like you DLS, like the red certainteed, which is the new improved 2 kote. The yellow box, (best mud in the joint) is ok too, but been a while since I used it. Maybe it's changed.

The red cgc is ok, but too many black little stones in it, and leaves surprise porosity. If you mix a few scoops of Machine mud in with the cgc red, then you get a good mud, but that gets to be a pain in the arse so...........


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> And just to add my 2 bucks worth.
> 
> I have been on what I call the Union union jobs (by the hour) They love the stuff. They never mix water with their mud. Plus the more you stroke the mud (keep going over it) the more the wall eyes, pin holes, fish eyes, porosity etc work them selves out. Plus it's a very light weight mud, so since they lug a bucket around all day:whistling2:
> 
> I'm like you DLS, like the red certainteed, which is the new improved 2 kote. The yellow box, (best mud in the joint) is ok too, but been a while since I used it. Maybe it's changed.
> 
> The red cgc is ok, but too many black little stones in it, and leaves surprise porosity. If you mix a few scoops of Machine mud in with the cgc red, then you get a good mud, but that gets to be a pain in the arse so...........


The mud must be coming from different plants between you and me 2buck. I truthfully do not understand.
Almost every single person in Sudbury uses MachineMud. They have a hard time keeping it in stock. They sell it by the skid.
And I've never had any of the problems you describe. Never. No wall eyes, pin holes, fish eyes, porosity or anything else.


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## SlimPickins

Is "machine mud" what we down here call light-weight?

I use the stuff exclusively when using air-dry compounds (ie, as finish coats over set muds)

I can't stand the softness of the sh!t, but it beats the other muds in a lot of ways. Like..........WAY easier to sand, and feathers better......which means less work on my end. It's a bitch to touch-up though........so I try to avoid that at all costs.


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## PrecisionTaping

SlimPickins said:


> Is "machine mud" what we down here call light-weight?
> 
> I use the stuff exclusively when using air-dry compounds (ie, as finish coats over set muds)
> 
> I can't stand the softness of the sh!t, but it beats the other muds in a lot of ways. Like..........WAY easier to sand, and feathers better......which means less work on my end. It's a bitch to touch-up though........so I try to avoid that at all costs.


I don't know...We have lightweight too so I'm not sure.
But I love it!


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## 2buckcanuck

PrecisionTaping said:


> The mud must be coming from different plants between you and me 2buck. I truthfully do not understand.
> Almost every single person in Sudbury uses MachineMud. They have a hard time keeping it in stock. They sell it by the skid.
> And I've never had any of the problems you describe. Never. No wall eyes, pin holes, fish eyes, porosity or anything else.


Low porosity is Machine muds one redeeming good quality.

Say your coating corner bead, and you want to stroke the porosity out (or box work), or make the porosity smaller ,acceptable.

Machine mud is about 2 strokes, red certainteed, 2 to 3 strokes, well cgc red is 4 to 5 strokes......... get what I mean

That's one reason hand tapers love the stuff,,,,,,,, less stroking off


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## DLSdrywall

PT a lot of tapers love machine mud, i work for a DWC that employs about 200 tapers and 60% of them love machine mud to finish, and cgc red to tape. The other 40% use certanteed red. FOr the extra 4 dollars a box i'll use certanteed. I'm working in kingston doing the barracks at the base and they dropped me 30 boxes of machine mud. It's a union hr job so i'm riding the machine mud train it's good for handwork. But everybody has there favorite


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## PrecisionTaping

2buckcanuck said:


> Low porosity is Machine muds one redeeming good quality.
> 
> Say your coating corner bead, and you want to stroke the porosity out (or box work), or make the porosity smaller ,acceptable.
> 
> Machine mud is about 2 strokes, red certainteed, 2 to 3 strokes, well cgc red is 4 to 5 strokes......... get what I mean
> 
> That's one reason hand tapers love the stuff,,,,,,,, less stroking off


I agree. And I find it to be the same with boxes.
My flats look amazing with MachineMud!! In that house we just finished, in one bathroom I accidentally forgot to run the 12" on two of the walls.
Didn't notice until I was sanding. Sanded perfectly. One coat! lol.
I still skimmed it after because I didn't like the way it looked. But it could have passed.


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> Is "machine mud" what we down here call light-weight?
> 
> I use the stuff exclusively when using air-dry compounds (ie, as finish coats over set muds)
> 
> I can't stand the softness of the sh!t, but it beats the other muds in a lot of ways. Like..........WAY easier to sand, and feathers better......which means less work on my end. It's a bitch to touch-up though........so I try to avoid that at all costs.


You guys have it, the captain said the different name you guys call it, but I can't remember. 3 or 4 cups of water, and it will run well for the bazooka, less water added meaning more glue stays active. All I remember is it's a USG product. Certain colour lid.

Getting old,,,memory going


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> You guys have it, the captain said the different name you guys call it, but I can't remember. 3 or 4 cups of water, and it will run well for the bazooka, less water added meaning more glue stays active. All I remember is it's a USG product. Certain colour lid.
> 
> Getting old,,,memory going


USG makes Beadex here, and that's what we mostly use. That and Hamilton products. Home Despot carries the green lid stuff I always hear people talking about.


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## DLSdrywall

does anyone ever use cgc green for taping...you know the stuff that weighs 80 pounds per box


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## PrecisionTaping

DLSdrywall said:


> does anyone ever use cgc green for taping...you know the stuff that weighs 80 pounds per box


I used too all the time.
It's awesome for tape and beads! Good luck ripping those tapes off after that mud. It's so heavy because of all the glue in it. As soon as you open up that box you can just smell how strong the glue is.
It's terrible mud for coating! The worse! It's hard and fish eyes beyond anything I've ever seen. But great for taping!
I know a few guys who just pre-fill with it too.


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## Mudshark

Isnt USG green lid a multi purpose mud?


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> Isnt USG green lid a multi purpose mud?










That it is! But it still has allot of glue in it! Which is part of the reason why it's so heavy. I hate it for everything else, but it was good for stringing tape. I just use machine mud for everything now though.


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## DLSdrywall

PrecisionTaping said:


> View attachment 4469
> 
> That it is! But it still has allot of glue in it! Which is part of the reason why it's so heavy. I hate it for everything else, but it was good for stringing tape. I just use machine mud for everything now though.


I love taping with it and installing no coat, ever scrap a mud flick off the wall after it's hardened like bloody durabond paper comes off with it!:blink:


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## PrecisionTaping

DLSdrywall said:


> I love taping with it and installing no coat, ever scrap a mud flick off the wall after it's hardened like bloody durabond paper comes off with it!:blink:


Yup! Very strong mud.


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## Mudshark

I bet it still sucks to sand with all the glues in it though. :whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> I bet it still sucks to sand with all the glues in it though. :whistling2:


Whats that the green box mud!?


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## Mudshark

PrecisionTaping said:


> Whats that the green box mud!?


I was referring to Machine mud but I guess you could apply the statement to all multi purpose muds with glue in them.


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> I was referring to Machine mud but I guess you could apply the statement to all multi purpose muds with glue in them.


oh ya, well I don't add glue to the mud when topping. Only when taping and doing beads.


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## Mudshark

PrecisionTaping said:


> oh ya, well I don't add glue to the mud when topping. Only when taping and doing beads.


I believe with the all purpose mud the glue is already added for you. That is why you can also use it for taping. 

Thats my whole point: Use taping mud (with glue already in it) for taping and finishing mud (no glue) for finishing. Why sand that stuff with glue in it?

I have never added glue yet because I use the proper mud for the job.


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> I believe with the all purpose mud the glue is already added for you. That is why you can also use it for taping.
> 
> Thats my whole point: Use taping mud (with glue already in it) for taping and finishing mud (no glue) for finishing. Why sand that stuff with glue in it?
> 
> I have never added glue yet because I use the proper mud for the job.


I completely understand what you're saying, but I don't sand anything with glue in it. I only use machine mud for everything I do. And the majority of the time I don't have any glue anyways. If my local supply store happens to have mudmax then i'll buy it, but other than that, it's not essential to my process. Machine mud works great with no glue in it either


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## Mudshark

I give up on you PT, I just dont think you get it. Machine Mud must already have glue in it if it is used for taping.


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## PrecisionTaping

Mudshark said:


> http://yoursmiles.org/t-en.php?page=2
> 
> I give up on you PT, I just dont think you get it. Machine Mud must already have glue in it if it is used for taping.


Haha yes it does already have glue in it, but not much. I don't know how to explain it to you because you've never used it. But i'm never switching muds! I use it for everything! It has enough glue in it to hold tapes and beads really well, yet it's a lightweight mud and it's super easy to sand.

I know what you're saying, why sand a tough mud, which has glue in it, but you've never used it, so you can't understand. I can honnestly sand machine mud with my finger if I wanted too, it's soft and smoothe and all around a great mud.


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## Newagestucco

i tape first coat with green all purpose

and due all the rest in machine mud very good mud


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