# No-Coat Masters



## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi Guys!
I'm looking for a bit of advice on No-Coat!
I have a job which is 360m2 and has vaulted ceilings and coombs everywhere that r going 2 b done with no-coat as they dont want them rounded
Its looking like about 10 boxes of the stuff and i have not used this stuff much!!!! Some r about 10m long
I am looking for some tips and tricks 2 get this baby done and lookin good so any help would b great:thumbsup: I have a hopper i can put the stuff through which might help speed it up!!


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## TonyM (Aug 4, 2008)

That's about £400 worth of No-Coat then. It goes through the hopper nicely. Just treat as you would flex tape. Don't press too hard with your trowel or scraper on the very end of the external as the paper is liable to tear. You don't need to coat right to the corner either.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

No coat through a hopper is a bitch, It flops eveywhere, Difficult to control, Covers you in crap, (Oh Wait, some of you like that) Did you have a runner vanman, Get a flat mudhead, Use a runner and a flat mud head to apply mud.

Did you realise that the no coat boxes have a handle in each side of the box so you dont need to measure the cut the flex to length, Thats a pain the backside, Just run your mud, (A cp tube and flat mudhead if you dont have a runner) Grab the box handle in one arm, Start laying the no coat straight out of the box, Have a pair of tin snips and a pencil on you so you can mark and cut the end. Easy, Fast and clean, It not like straight flex, It dosent need pre folded or has such a memory, the mud will hold it in place.

Then use a wooden small wallpaper seam roller to bed the tape and square it up and wipe off and back fill a little along the egde, Next coat with a 5.5 or 7 box and its done, give or take touchups. Screw using a hopper, How are you going to feed a long length of no coat through it, Get up on your scaff and handle that, It would be like trying to bang a sheep with a limp d!ck, All floppy and hopeless.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I dont know if I am qualified to coment here I am not a nocoat master but I will throw mt 2bucks in any way.
Like Caz said mudrunner or a C/P tube. If you dont have a runner or a C/P tube you can use a Dunny brush or a lambs wool roller to load it up. After that you have the perfect roller, just adjust the Ezy Roller to the correct angle and "simply roll it in". (Sorry just taking the micky out of an add that running here latley) 




(Cheesy pitch but great ladders I have 2 of them.)

Then the rest as Caz said.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> No coat through a hopper is a bitch, It flops eveywhere, Difficult to control, Covers you in crap, (Oh Wait, some of you like that) Did you have a runner vanman, Get a flat mudhead, Use a runner and a flat mud head to apply mud.
> 
> Did you realise that the no coat boxes have a handle in each side of the box so you dont need to measure the cut the flex to length, Thats a pain the backside, Just run your mud, (A cp tube and flat mudhead if you dont have a runner) Grab the box handle in one arm, Start laying the no coat straight out of the box, Have a pair of tin snips and a pencil on you so you can mark and cut the end. Easy, Fast and clean, It not like straight flex, It dosent need pre folded or has such a memory, the mud will hold it in place.
> 
> Then use a wooden small wallpaper seam roller to bed the tape and square it up and wipe off and back fill a little along the egde, Next coat with a 5.5 or 7 box and its done, give or take touchups. Screw using a hopper, How are you going to feed a long length of no coat through it, Get up on your scaff and handle that, It would be like trying to bang a sheep with a limp d!ck, All floppy and hopeless.


Oh gee, got to agree with the sheep shagger again. But I could be wrong, I think they say on the box to pre-bend it, then open it up again, could be wrong, but that's what I do.

I also load closer to the point, keeping about a 1/4" away(1 cm). I find with U-flex you do, well mid-flex you don't (2 different products so...). Just don't coat over the blue line, it will make your life hell when sanding time comes.

pre adjust/eye up the flex before you wipe it down. You can chalk line it out if you want, but I find the human eye will suffice. Just don't be afraid if something looks like it will take a heavy load. ultra-flex is a miracle fixer:yes:

try to force the vinyl part as close as you can to the drywall, the tighter the better. You can try using what Cazna the clean said to roll them. But since you own a corner roller for your angle tapes, or a bead roller. The angle roller is sorta messy. I found tapepro's bead roller is good for this but,,,, you half to duct tape the head to the handle. It can become awkward to run sometimes, but it works. last option is to use the handle of your knife, hammer end type, and force the vinyl part in, and keep the edge wiped down lower than the vinyl. They are time consuming to install, so don't let that bother you if it seems to be taking for ever. They coat out fast,,,,, If INSTALLED right:yes:

coating them I just nail spot them, keeping 1 cm from blue line with a 6" knife (just like doing screws). Then I skim them out, so 2 coats. (one coat if ceiling is KD spray). let them dry good before coating them, dont coat them right away. IMO, your dealing with vinyl, let them dry good.

Also, on bad drywall jobs, if rock sits high on one side, but low on the other (inside 45 of coarse). Make the flex follow/attach to the high side, or you will have big trouble when coating them. Hope you know what I mean:thumbsup:

Good luck, if all else fails, drink a few beers, then you will figure things out


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I think pretty well everything's already been said.
Listen to these guys above and you're golden!
Unfortunately I don't have a video demonstration for you on this one. 
I'll add it to my video list! :thumbsup:


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Everybody's playing nice here today, this is good.











:thumbup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Philma Crevices said:


> Everybody's playing nice here today, this is good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, Nice Philma!


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

I hadn't logged into my old photobucket account in years. Good schtuff


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> I hadn't logged into my old photobucket account in years. Good schtuff


Got any sheep stuff:whistling2::whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Got any sheep stuff:whistling2::whistling2:


haha wow...sheep stuff. lol
I thought this was funny!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> haha wow...sheep stuff. lol
> I thought this was funny!
> View attachment 3435


yes, but I hear the kiwi's prefer seeing this sign instead, the one saying go for it:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> yes, but I hear the kiwi's prefer seeing this sign instead, the one saying go for it:whistling2:


Haha! 70 million sheep!


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh gee, got to agree with the sheep shagger again. But I could be wrong, I think they say on the box to pre-bend it, then open it up again, could be wrong, but that's what I do.


I use to measure, cut, pre bend, All that, one day i said F this, This box has handles, Im just gonna slam it in and see what happens (Yes, Just like a sheep, i know) And its sweet, No holding tapes, No measuring, No cut to short or cut to long, didnt spring out again, Perfect length everytime, To easy :thumbsup:

Dunno about 70 million sheep, That was a huge industry for nz back in the day, A lot of farms converted to dairy, Maybe we should try it on a cow instead..............Actually, That reminds me of a movie i seen years back, A cow, a stool, someone to hold the tail out of the way. :blink::blink::blink:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

cazna said:


> Actually, That reminds me of a movie i seen years back, A cow, a stool, someone to hold the tail out of the way. :blink::blink::blink:


 Eewww.....Are you saying what I think you're saying...


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)




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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


>


HAHAHA

for some reason I was expecting you to post a vid of someone doing a cow









All is good :whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> HAHAHA
> 
> for some reason I was expecting you to post a vid of someone doing a cow
> 
> ...


Hahaha! Ya! I got scared there too for a moment.
Good video Moore.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> HAHAHA
> 
> for some reason I was expecting you to post a vid of someone doing a cow
> 
> ...


 my bad ...THAT should have been a vid of mudslingr applying no-coat..I was on the kids lap top ..I hate that thing.sorry ..bty no-coat needs to be crimped just like paper tape.imo..A COW!:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

video thread
This is how I do it.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cazna said:


> Actually, That reminds me of a movie i seen years back, A cow, a stool, someone to hold the tail out of the way. :blink::blink::blink:


Wo ho ho there big fella....you'll hurt yourself, what you need is a cattle crush, it holds them by the kneck for de-horning, also watch out for the back kick, it'll either kill ya or tear your teabag off


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Eewww.....Are you saying what I think you're saying...


I thought every male teenager got to watch animal farm :blink:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

One thing I'll add, is make sure that you put enough mud up to begin with. I find them much easier to wipe out with "too much" mud than, just barely enough. LOL, I slap the mud on, put the tape in, and then "set" it by hand. Also, basically repeating what was said before, take the time to get them in right, and the coating is almost effortless. Get them wrong, well.....:furious:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> bty no-coat needs to be crimped just like paper tape.imo..A COW!:blink:


 
Nah mate, Crimp it and you [email protected] it, True, Then you have to un crimp it back, I find it ruins it and makes it worse, Just grab the box handle and put it in, Strat from the box, Go on, do one, It wont hurt. Why measure, cut, fold, crease, burn you hand, unfold back etc, You really dont need to :yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Nah mate, Crimp it and you [email protected] it, True, Then you have to un crimp it back, I find it ruins it and makes it worse, Just grab the box handle and put it in, Strat from the box, Go on, do one, It wont hurt. Why measure, cut, fold, crease, burn you hand, unfold back etc, You really dont need to :yes:


You could start a whole new thread on this one.

Think if your using some type of a roller, you will get away with it. I have done it before. But I do tend to bend/crimp them out of habit.

If just using a knife for install, I'm guessing it would be better to bend them once IMO.

Experiment time:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> You could start a whole new thread on this one.
> 
> Think if your using some type of a roller, you will get away with it. I have done it before. But I do tend to bend/crimp them out of habit.
> 
> ...


Im with 2buck on this one. Sorry Cazna. But its not because I necessarily think our way is better, its mostly because of inexperience. I haven't tried it your way yet. But I think the next time I have a long stretch to do I might take your recommendation. See how it plays out.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Im a pre cut and bender also. Gives me something to do and keep clean:yes: Once there all cut and bent and near areas of install then we break out the reinke and roller:thumbsup: once again I keep clean. Never used the back of knife to push in but sounds like a good thing. I will push in with my fingertips and wipe with 6. We use a 3" or 4" lil roller heavy nap.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

It wouldn't hurt to check all corners where you're going to apply no-coat to see how straight the framing is etc..if the framing is off i put a string line along and pre-fill with hot mud using the string as a guide. 
Then when It comes time to fit your No-coat you can be sure your bedding it to with in a few mm of straight..and you won't be in a situation where you're trying to shove more mud under tape thats on the wall already. Having alot of mud under a plastic tape must slow the drying down so pre filling will help with that also.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Im with 2buck on this one. Sorry Cazna. But its not because I necessarily think our way is better, its mostly because of inexperience. I haven't tried it your way yet. But I think the next time I have a long stretch to do I might take your recommendation. See how it plays out.


 
Straight flex was first, it needed cut and pre bend or it wouldnt stick, then came no coat, the straight flex habits followed on, So we treated it like straightflex, For 5 years now i wouldnt have measured, cut, or pre folded any of it, No need to, and have not had one spring back or bubble, Dont bed it in hotmud, Thats where it will go wrong, The board pulls the water from the hotmud and it looses stick, Use a sticky ish All purpose or taping mud, It will NOT spring back out on you, Use a flat mud head on a cp or runner and its a perfect amount, Its even, So the tape sits even, To get it straight if the boards out, Put a nail in on end of the seam with some string on it, Apply mud, Then no coat straight from the box, and hold the string in the centre crease, That will show you any problems, I rarely do this, Eye sight is normally fine.
Listen to me, DONT CREASE IT, Save yourself some hassel, Creasing also can damage the edge paper, Then its harder to wipe down, Try it guys, Then thank me later :yes:, Like i said, A wallpaper seam roller like the one in this pic, its the same size as the plastic on the no coat, And see that CP tube banjo and box filler i made Precision taping :thumbsup: And the sheeps for 2 buck, Though hes seen this pic before it will still turn him on :whistling2:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> The board pulls the water from the hotmud and it looses stick:


 I always use Hotmud (Covebond) to stick No-Coat on, Why you probably find your Premix mud easier is that its runnier and much easier to get a suction thing going. But it will also take much longer to dry under that plastic tape.
I'm always worried air dried compounds might take to long to dry out where I live, on the other hand thin hotmud drying too fast is probably worse

I might give the Premix stuff a go next time I put No-Coat up :thumbsup:


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

cazna said:


> Straight flex was first, it needed cut and pre bend or it wouldnt stick, then came no coat, the straight flex habits followed on, So we treated it like straightflex, For 5 years now i wouldnt have measured, cut, or pre folded any of it, No need to, and have not had one spring back or bubble, Dont bed it in hotmud, Thats where it will go wrong, The board pulls the water from the hotmud and it looses stick, Use a sticky ish All purpose or taping mud, It will NOT spring back out on you, Use a flat mud head on a cp or runner and its a perfect amount, Its even, So the tape sits even, To get it straight if the boards out, Put a nail in on end of the seam with some string on it, Apply mud, Then no coat straight from the box, and hold the string in the centre crease, That will show you any problems, I rarely do this, Eye sight is normally fine.
> Listen to me, DONT CREASE IT, Save yourself some hassel, Creasing also can damage the edge paper, Then its harder to wipe down, Try it guys, Then thank me later :yes:, Like i said, A wallpaper seam roller like the one in this pic, its the same size as the plastic on the no coat, And see that CP tube banjo and box filler i made Precision taping :thumbsup: And the sheeps for 2 buck, Though hes seen this pic before it will still turn him on :whistling2:


 Sounds like a sound method, I'll give it a go next time have a few to do. Seriously funny ****e with that pic! Thanks for the laughs today guys


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I always use Hotmud (Covebond) to stick No-Coat on, Why you probably find your Premix mud easier is that its runnier and much easier to get a suction thing going. But it will also take much longer to dry under that plastic tape.
> I'm always worried air dried compounds might take to long to dry out where I live, on the other hand thin hotmud drying too fast is probably worse
> 
> I might give the Premix stuff a go next time I put No-Coat up :thumbsup:


Mate, The air dry stuff is sweet with nocoat, Drys fast, I roll it flat with the seam roller, then there is f all mud under it, Pre fill it if there is a big gap, But the plastic is solid as hell, It covers gaps and screws no trouble :thumbsup:

It all turns to sh!t with hotmuds, Try the pro mix, Or the plus 4 is actually full of pva, Its sticky, Thats why its the only one they recommend for skim coating, I dont know about tradefinish multi yet.



Philma Crevices said:


> Sounds like a sound method, I'll give it a go next time have a few to do. Seriously funny ****e with that pic! Thanks for the laughs today guys


JUST DO IT :thumbup:, And you 2Buck, moore, and precision taping :yes:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Stopper said:


> I always use Hotmud (Covebond) to stick No-Coat on, Why you probably find your Premix mud easier is that its runnier and much easier to get a suction thing going. But it will also take much longer to dry under that plastic tape.
> I'm always worried air dried compounds might take to long to dry out where I live, on the other hand thin hotmud drying too fast is probably worse
> 
> I might give the Premix stuff a go next time I put No-Coat up :thumbsup:


Yup :yes: try the A/P mud, I've found it a lot better, especially with straightflex, make it fairly runny tho.
Have you tried the new "Trade finish multi" yet, I'm quite impressed with it, less trowelling to get a smooth finish and especially good over existing paint, I tried it on an alteration this week where my first two coats of hot mud (Tradeset) got filthy great air bubbles over the painted areas and the Trade finish topcoat didn't.....never seen that before.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

cazna said:


> Straight flex was first, it needed cut and pre bend or it wouldnt stick, then came no coat, the straight flex habits followed on, So we treated it like straightflex, For 5 years now i wouldnt have measured, cut, or pre folded any of it, No need to, and have not had one spring back or bubble, Dont bed it in hotmud, Thats where it will go wrong, The board pulls the water from the hotmud and it looses stick, Use a sticky ish All purpose or taping mud, It will NOT spring back out on you, Use a flat mud head on a cp or runner and its a perfect amount, Its even, So the tape sits even, To get it straight if the boards out, Put a nail in on end of the seam with some string on it, Apply mud, Then no coat straight from the box, and hold the string in the centre crease, That will show you any problems, I rarely do this, Eye sight is normally fine.
> Listen to me, DONT CREASE IT, Save yourself some hassel, Creasing also can damage the edge paper, Then its harder to wipe down, Try it guys, Then thank me later :yes:, Like i said, A wallpaper seam roller like the one in this pic, its the same size as the plastic on the no coat, And see that CP tube banjo and box filler i made Precision taping :thumbsup: And the sheeps for 2 buck, Though hes seen this pic before it will still turn him on :whistling2:


All valid points Cazna

me and 2bjr got in a big spat about this once. 98% of the time, junior installed the stuff. Then one day I had to install about four boxes of the stuff in a small house.(about this time last year). I felt it was taking too long. So I stopped bending them and pulled out the angle roller. But 2bjr was trying to say they didn't look right,,,, I think he was just jealous,, my way was faster,,,,,,,,,,, but after that house, it was 2bjr back to installing them. Anytime I did them after that, My focus was more about finding some type of roller to use on them.

But way a head of you on the tape measure thing. never use one to install any form of bead. When I see a taper pull out a tape measure to install bead, I think amateur......:blink:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> But way a head of you on the tape measure thing. never use one to install any form of bead. When I see a taper pull out a tape measure to install bead, I think amateur......:blink:


Well now im screwed, I still measure and cut paper metal beads sometimes, If its an odd height, skriting boards on etc, Amateur i am :whistling2:

I have never once had to re install any no coat, And i have used many, many boxes, Many odd houses and ceilings with it, I had a few bubbles with straightflex, But never no coat............Oh, hang on, I did an external with it once, Showed up the next morn and about 12 inches of it sprang and dryedish, Thats cause i seen the clip of the dude hitting it with plastic pipe [email protected] how good it was, So i tryed it, It sucked, Then i figured out you guys have sticks of no coat, Different than the boxed stuff.

I few times i had to cut one side of it down leaving 10mm to bend over, Then sit it on top of the board as it was a 135 degree from wall to ceiling, Wallboard to custom wood with exposed beams, And cut many peices to fit around the beams, So it could hairline crack as it moved, Hard to explain.

So if no coat in the box is meant to be measured and cut and creased, then whats the handles on each side of the box for??? And, those cardboards handles are strenghtened, They are quite strong.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> It all turns to sh!t with hotmuds.


 I've been putting it up with hotmud for years , haven't had any problems with it.

Don't you find plus4 rather soft? I know a lot of Painters used to complain about it being soft years ago, maybe its changed.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> But way a head of you on the tape measure thing. never use one to install any form of bead. When I see a taper pull out a tape measure to install bead, I think amateur......:blink:


99% of the time I never use a tape measure either. :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I've been putting it up with hotmud for years , haven't had any problems with it.
> 
> Don't you find plus4 rather soft? I know a lot of Painters used to complain about it being soft years ago, maybe its changed.


 
Yeah, Hotmud works, ish, I did that for years as well, but then you have time restrants, And its not as nice as an AP to use. You dont seem to get the same paper tears and mixed up firm and soft mud as bad. If your using a cp or runner then you can do all the no coat and clean up once, Not many times if you have a lot to do, I had some houses with heaps of it, I spent more time mixing and cleaning than applying the no coat, Its a long day running around, But with ap and a cp its much faster, cleaner, and tidier, And dont worry about the drying, Its fine :yes:

Yes plus 4 is rather soft and fluffy and promix is rather hard, heavy and settles quickly, But mix the two and what do you have.......Perfect brew :yes: Nice to sand but not to soft or hard, Great for PCs and autotools, Promix sucks through a zooka, Heavy as hell, I broke my zooka key first time i used it with promix, Thats another story.

Have you ever done a negitive detail scotia, Thats when the wallboard is kept about 15mm down from the ceiling board, So then you need to trim the paper off one side of a 90 degree bead, And install that into the gap sticking it to the ceiling first, Then a negitave detail bead goes on the wall so it caps the top of the wallboard and then has 12mm return up to the ceiling bead, The end result is a 12mm inset square, Think about what you need to cut for an internal and external corner when doing that, A lot of bead isnt it, I hope you understand that?? Also against beams, the board is cut 15mm back from the beam, Then the negative detail trim is fitted.

This one, Im calling negative detail the tape on revel trim.
http://www.gib.co.nz/gib-goldline-platinum-l-trims-reveals/

Anyway, So how do you mud up one side to fit those type of beads, With the flat mud head on a cp or runner of course. This one here. Same for Nocoat.
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Corner-Bead-Mud-Heads/L-Trim-Mud-Head.html


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Yes plus 4 is rather soft and fluffy and promix is rather hard, heavy and settles quickly, But mix the two and what do you have.......Perfect brew :yes: Promix sucks through a zooka, Heavy as hell, I broke my zooka key first time i used it with promix, Thats another story.



I prefer Promix myself, mainly because I've used it for many years now, but am giving that new trade finish all purpose a go at the moment.

Promix and Plus4 ?Does Winston's recommend the mixing of the two? ,Not something I'd do, I think you'd be better using either one or the other, safer if something goes wrong too.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I prefer Promix myself, mainly because I've used it for many years now, but am giving that new trade finish all purpose a go at the moment.
> 
> Promix and Plus4 ?Does Winston's recommend the mixing of the two? ,Not something I'd do, I think you'd be better using either one or the other, safer if something goes wrong too.


Not really, they dont recommend it, I told a rep i was doing that, He thought i was silly, But then i explained my reasons why, And he was like:blink: You should talk to such and such, he makes our mud about this, He said it should work but your doubling up, IE, Mud has a certain percentage of things that make up a bucket, Like pvas etc, So by mixing the two different buckets your making a higher amount of some chemicals. But its a really nice mud, Im yet to try the tradefinish multi, That sounds nice. Its all a bit much to type out. Winstone really lack suitable autotool muds, They are behind the rest of the world, Its hand tool mud, So i made my own out of there muds by combining two buckets. But they are listening, so there is hope.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Yeah, Hotmud works, ish, I did that for years as well, but then you have time restrants, And its not as nice as an AP to use. You dont seem to get the same paper tears and mixed up firm and soft mud as bad. If your using a cp or runner then you can do all the no coat and clean up once, Not many times if you have a lot to do, I had some houses with heaps of it, I spent more time mixing and cleaning than applying the no coat, Its a long day running around, But with ap and a cp its much faster, cleaner, and tidier, And dont worry about the drying, Its fine :yes:
> 
> Yes plus 4 is rather soft and fluffy and promix is rather hard, heavy and settles quickly, But mix the two and what do you have.......Perfect brew :yes: Nice to sand but not to soft or hard, Great for PCs and autotools, Promix sucks through a zooka, Heavy as hell, I broke my zooka key first time i used it with promix, Thats another story.
> 
> ...



Yes heaps of it, Though its usually done on the ceiling and not the wall when I've done it, much harder on ceilings. I've also used negative detail on the BOTTOM of a wall where the skirting's are fixed to the studs and flush with the drywall, the negative detail creates a gap between the two, this particular job had external corners round all the floor to ceiling windows etc have a think about what you need to cut for that alot of corners yada yada yada :whistling2: Whats this have to do with no-coat and plus4?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> Yes heaps of it, Though its usually done on the ceiling and not the wall when I've done it, much harder on ceilings. I've also used negative detail on the BOTTOM of a wall where the skirting's are fixed to the studs and flush with the drywall, the negative detail creates a gap between the two, this particular job had external corners round all the floor to ceiling windows etc have a think about what you need to cut for that alot of corners yada yada yada :whistling2: Whats this have to do with no-coat and plus4?


I was just trying to say that the flat mud head i use for no coat is also good for that as well. Go back, Did you read my post on winstones mud etc.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> I was just trying to say that the flat mud head i use for no coat is also good for that as well. Go back, Did you read my post on winstones mud etc.


Not sure, what was your post about? 
When I mud Up those seams for negative detail it important to get a little mud into the gap, not so important if you're sticking the stuff up on the wall side but on the ceiling it is.. wouldn't be saving any time with a mud head in fact it would be very impractical for fitting the stuff to ceilings, as theres a hell of a lot more cutting, angles have to be cut in a mitre box etc , in the job I last did there was alot of small lengths switching direction back and forth and winding down stairways etc. and on the ceiling its extremely noticeable. 

I told 2Buck in another post I never measure corner beads with a tape measure but I DO measure negative detail, as each length has to meet precisely.


Heres a pic of a job I did that required several boxes of No-Coat , there were 5 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms like this ,all bedded with hotmud none bubbled, all the lines perfectly straight, everything meeting exactly etc , nothing wrong with hotmud, back in the day its all we used.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> All valid points Cazna
> 
> me and 2bjr got in a big spat about this once. 98% of the time, junior installed the stuff. Then one day I had to install about four boxes of the stuff in a small house.(about this time last year). I felt it was taking too long. So I stopped bending them and pulled out the angle roller. But 2bjr was trying to say they didn't look right,,,, I think he was just jealous,, my way was faster,,,,,,,,,,, but after that house, it was 2bjr back to installing them. Anytime I did them after that, My focus was more about finding some type of roller to use on them.
> 
> But way a head of you on the tape measure thing. never use one to install any form of bead. When I see a taper pull out a tape measure to install bead, I think amateur......:blink:


 Yeah, I think we're all waiting for a roller for our offangles, only problems I see with one would be getting it to install them level, and of course rolling in off-offangles  Maybe something like a glazer head, springy

Around here our hangers usually have horrible layout and typical to have a recess or 2:furious: on ours. Think I might make a pamphlet "How to Keep Your Finishers Happy" with the obvious... and pass it out with some Shim on a Roll


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

gazman said:


> I dont know if I am qualified to coment here I am not a nocoat master but I will throw mt 2bucks in any way.
> Like Caz said mudrunner or a C/P tube. If you dont have a runner or a C/P tube you can use a Dunny brush or a lambs wool roller to load it up. After that you have the perfect roller, just adjust the Ezy Roller to the correct angle and "simply roll it in". (Sorry just taking the micky out of an add that running here latley)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPRyfq4EOdU
> (Cheesy pitch but great ladders I have 2 of them.)
> ...


 Yea Gaz i should have the perfect roller for them(thanks 2 u):thumbsup:
I forgot it the last day 2 make sure it adjusts 2 the angle as the last house it didn't open far enough for the angles i will let u know how it goes and post a vid o this beast!! Think i am lookin at a months work


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> Not sure, what was your post about?
> When I mud Up those seams for negative detail it important to get a little mud into the gap, not so important if you're sticking the stuff up on the wall side but on the ceiling it is.. wouldn't be saving any time with a mud head in fact it would be very impractical for fitting the stuff to ceilings.
> 
> nothing wrong with hotmud, back in the day its all we used.


Never mind, Its hard to get things accross when typing somtimes.

You can load with a mud head, Then put your bead in the mud and scape the first mud line with the edge of the negative detail trim, That gets mud on it for you, then fit.

Best you stay using hotmud then :yes:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Never mind, Its hard to get things accross when typing somtimes.
> 
> You can load with a mud head, Then put your bead in the mud and scape the first mud line with the edge of the negative detail trim, That gets mud on it for you, then fit.
> 
> Best you stay using hotmud then :yes:


I'll give the premix a go, but on jobs like the one in my photo it wouldn't be practical, too many angles all meeting together , too much filling, etc , with hotmud you can coat a join, let it go off then coat an angle or joins that intersecting it etc... with air dried you couldn't do tyhat in reasonable time


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I'll give the premix a go, but on jobs like the one in my photo it wouldn't be practical, too many angles all meeting together , too much filling, etc , with hotmud you can coat a join, let it go off then coat an angle or joins that intersecting it etc... with air dried you couldn't do tyhat in reasonable time


 
Good point, :thumbsup:, Your correct. Try again with your pic bro, Its not posted :yes:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Good point, :thumbsup:, Your correct. Try again with your pic bro, Its not posted :yes:


That pic is the first one I uploaded to this site, must be private , cause I can see it fine lol. will try again

P.S Doing a test between Promix and Tradefinish multi today on a piece of drywall and an internal corner I dummied up at home.
Comparing No-Coat, Papertape and Fibafuse, and how well they stick as well as how well the compounds stick papertape when thinned down. Are there any additives we can get in New Zealand to increase the adhesion of our muds like that Mudmax?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Ya I can see the picture fine too. Looks good Stopper! :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Yep, I see it now, Nice :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

My newbs first attempt at installing no-coat









I hope PT understands what he did wrong


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> My newbs first attempt at installing no-coat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bahahahaha!!! OMG! That's wicked awesome!!
One of my buddies (who also works for me) is here hanging out and he seen the picture and even he was like "Wth!? Why is that guy's UltraFlex on backwords?" haha.
I'll do you one better 2buck. Tomorrow i'll upload a video of my newb trying to run a box for the first time. :laughing:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Haha, Cool, I bet you were very descrete and suttle when you told him what was wrong:whistling2:

I seen a guy on diy tv show put an external paper/metal bead in an internal corner upside down once.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

cazna said:


> Haha, Cool, I bet you were very descrete and suttle when you told him what was wrong:whistling2:
> 
> I seen a guy on diy tv show put an external paper/metal bead in an internal corner upside down once.


Just last week I was finishing an unfinished side of a basement and I peaked into the finished side and saw they used mesh tape as outside corner beads!  Couldn't believe it.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Bahahahaha!!! OMG! That's wicked awesome!!
> One of my buddies (who also works for me) is here hanging out and he seen the picture and even he was like "Wth!? Why is that guy's UltraFlex on backwords?" haha.
> I'll do you one better 2buck. Tomorrow i'll upload a video of my newb trying to run a box for the first time. :laughing:


You have a buddy over PT:thumbup:

Mister PT's buddy

Get PT up out of his chair, take him to a bar, get him drunk, and set him up with a women. I'm sure all other DWT members will agree he desperately needs a women.

P.S.

If he brings home a fat ugly cow, send us pics, so we can have a good laugh:whistling2:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> You have a buddy over PT:thumbup:
> 
> Mister PT's buddy
> 
> ...


Hahaha! Well my X-girlfriend was his sister!
And no! No fat ugly cows!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Hahaha! Well my X-girlfriend was his sister!
> And no! No fat ugly cows!


Bet you he was the one that set you up with his sister:whistling2:

guessing he can set you up again:yes:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Bet you he was the one that set you up with his sister:whistling2:
> 
> guessing he can set you up again:yes:


lol! No he wasn't. We were all just close friends. And it sort of just happened. It sort of drew a wedge between me and him. Strained our friendship. It was awkward because we were all friends. But whatever. It's over now. And I'm stronger from it. Live and learn eh.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

anyone else think there is something more going on between PT and his "friend":jester:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> anyone else think there is something more going on between PT and his "friend":jester:


:blink: Kidding me!?
Wow...I can't say anything on this site without some sort of stupid gay joke. I just got out of a long relationship with some dumb b!tch who tore my heart out. I don't need to go jumping into another relationship with the first hot girl I meet. Hot girls aren't hard to find! They're dime a dozen!
Try finding me a beautiful women who isn't a total snob, who has half brain and can uphold a decent conversation as well as a job!
You'd be single too. 

I went out on a date with a bar tender about 2 months back. I couldn't believe how awesome it was! She was honestly perfect. But she was moving away 10 days from then. She was moving out of town to live with her sister for a year or so. I couldn't believe it. It was weird.
I never ask random girls out on a date. Never. I'm not that type of guy. But I took my guys out for lunch to a bar/bowling alley and this girl was helping us out and I was immediately drawn to her. So I asked her out and she said ya, but when we went on our date she told me that it was only fair that she let me know she was moving in 10 days. I was bummed out! lol. We still keep in touch a little. Text each other. Keep tabs.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I went out on a date with a bar tender about 2 months back. I couldn't believe how awesome it was! She was honestly perfect. But she was moving away 10 days from then. She was moving out of town to live with her sister for a year or so. I couldn't believe it. It was weird.
> I never ask random girls out on a date. Never. I'm not that type of guy. But I took my guys out for lunch to a bar/bowling alley and this girl was helping us out and I was immediately drawn to her. So I asked her out and she said ya, but when we went on our date she told me that it was only fair that she let me know she was moving in 10 days. I was bummed out! lol. We still keep in touch a little. Text each other. Keep tabs.


Maybe she just told you that, because she thought you were gay







:jester:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Maybe she just told you that, because she thought you were gay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol: :lol: I think I just snorted !


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Maybe she just told you that, because she thought you were gay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha! I saw that one coming. lol.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)




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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

The beautiful ones w/half a brain only need to be smart enough to call a cab the next morning!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> The beautiful ones w/half a brain only need to be smart enough to call a cab the next morning!


Haha! Well said. :laughing:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

I know everything been said and done with no coat i pre-cut, bend, do it by hand but a couple of tricks i have for it are. I wet the pre-cut no-coat in water it really sucks it in when installing. ecspeially if it's a long run. With the bad framing i know most tapers have a hard time lining up no-coats i always line it up ceiling side on the edge of the no-coat not the middle easier to line up and ensures a straight no coat even if framing is screwed. But then again that's just what i do


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

DLSdrywall said:


> I know everything been said and done with no coat i pre-cut, bend, do it by hand but a couple of tricks i have for it are. I wet the pre-cut no-coat in water it really sucks it in when installing. ecspeially if it's a long run. With the bad framing i know most tapers have a hard time lining up no-coats i always line it up ceiling side on the edge of the no-coat not the middle easier to line up and ensures a straight no coat even if framing is screwed. But then again that's just what i do


Wet the no-coat eh? Hmmm...Never thought of that. Might give it a shot


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Wet the no-coat eh? Hmmm...Never thought of that. Might give it a shot


HHHmmmm,,,,, interesting









Ill let PT try it 1st


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> HHHmmmm,,,,, interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> HHHmmmm,,,,, interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

DLSdrywall said:


> I know everything been said and done with no coat i pre-cut, bend, do it by hand but a couple of tricks i have for it are. I wet the pre-cut no-coat in water it really sucks it in when installing. ecspeially if it's a long run. With the bad framing i know most tapers have a hard time lining up no-coats i always line it up ceiling side on the edge of the no-coat not the middle easier to line up and ensures a straight no coat even if framing is screwed. But then again that's just what i do


 Yea i use a spray bottle 2 when putting on no-coat even for an upright 90 as it gives it a bit more time 2 sort anything out that needs it!
There must b a glue or something that reacts with it soon as it touches the filler:blink:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

VANMAN said:


> Yea i use a spray bottle 2 when putting on no-coat even for an upright 90 as it gives it a bit more time 2 sort anything out that needs it!
> There must b a glue or something that reacts with it soon as it touches the filler:blink:


Interesting...


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

When I walked out the door I felt...Violated


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Wow that is expensive. We get level line through our distributor and it is the same as no coat except for $18 a roll.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Wow that is expensive. We get level line through our distributor and it is the same as no coat except for $18 a roll.


 I can get the 325 for half that ,,but It would have been an hour drive so....


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

We pay $100 for a box of 325.:yes:


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

gazman said:


> We pay $100 for a box of 325.:yes:


In NZ it retails for just over $100 but I think I buy it for about $50 trade..(been awhile since I've bothered to check the price)


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> In NZ it retails for just over $100 but I think I buy it for about $50 trade..(been awhile since I've bothered to check the price)


$66 for me, Tuff tape was $20, Not sure about straightflex, Dont use it.


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