# Speed job tomarrow,,, mesh or paper



## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I have a bathroom to do tomarrow,, they cut the rock 4" above the old tub, broke it out, replaced it and then hung 4" strips of rock over the flange at the top of the tub. the wall they had to destruct to enter the new unit needs two pieces of 8' rock. So I have to finish the strips and the "wall" with 20 min mud. The question is this,,,, whats the point of mesh???? since the wall has three 8' angles, that have to be paper-taped, whats the advantage of meshing the flat????? I mean if you mesh the flat, you still have to fill the bevel with mud,,, so we are talking a savings of what???? 5 seconds????. Using paper will insure no crack, and since i will have to wait an hour or so before I re-coat with 20-min whats the point???? There's none, and no reason to short change the HO. Same with the flanges,,, they hung the strips(which amount to bastard butts), If they are meshed, you may save a few seconds, but you gain no strenght. Again, The wait time after 20 min cancels any gain of a few seconds,, and paper insures the seal. The whole job is going to be a WAITING game, for hot-mud to set.

To sum it up, I'll make a cpl hundred bucks tomarrow for sitting around and watching hot mud set up,,,, If I used mesh, I might save 3 minutes, but then I'd have to go back and fix it later.

STOP THE MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!
Or in other words,,

JUST SAY NO TO MESH


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

JUST SAY NO, Bad mesh, Good slogan Capt, it might catch on.

Im Saying NO, NZ is a country of hotmuds, So here its been tested and tested over and over, and it cracks, Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but as soon as the ground shakes it cracks, Or even a storm stressin the house, CRACK, Or a hot fire on a cold day CRACK. Or a wet damp springtime then it drys out over summer CRACK, Or someone slams a door with a butt above it, CRACK.

If people dont like wiping out paper then fibafuse is easy to wipe, For a bad suspect seam, fibafuse, roll flat, then papertape and roll flat again, Thats one strong seam :thumbsup: Easy to do.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> JUST SAY NO, Bad mesh, Good slogan Capt, it might catch on.
> 
> Im Saying NO, NZ is a country of hotmuds, So here its been tested and tested over and over, and it cracks, Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but as soon as the ground shakes it cracks, Or even a storm stressin the house, CRACK, Or a hot fire on a cold day CRACK. Or a wet damp springtime then it drys out over summer CRACK, Or someone slams a door with a butt above it, CRACK.
> 
> If people dont like wiping out paper then fibafuse is easy to wipe, For a bad suspect seam, fibafuse, roll flat, then papertape and roll flat again, Thats one strong seam :thumbsup: Easy to do.


I really don't see where guys think it saves them that much time,,, they still have to embed it,,, so all they are saveing is the actuall time it takes to lay it, seconds at best.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

On a job that small why not use 5 minute mud. You might have to mix a few more pans since you cannot mix as much at once but you will save enough time to offset that. Also if you don't want to wait forever be sure to use sheetrock mud as it will set up twice as fast as the same minute proform mud. As far as tape it is your job whatever floats your boat.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cdwoodcox said:


> On a job that small why not use 5 minute mud. You might have to mix a few more pans since you cannot mix as much at once but you will save enough time to offset that. Also if you don't want to wait forever be sure to use sheetrock mud as it will set up twice as fast as the same minute proform mud. As far as tape it is your job whatever floats your boat.


 Thanks for the input,,, I don't use 5 min cause I'm old as dirt, I need the break,,, If I mix 20 min with hot water, it sets in 10 mins, that gives me 10 mins to wash up twit coats, go out to the truck, smoke three cigs and drink a beer. Then the next coat of 20 will go on smooth!!!!! 

I really am not trying to get out by lunch time,,, if I do the contractor is gonna think I F'd him,,,,, If I sit there all day, coat it with 20, drink a few beers, he'll be happier than pig in Sh*t (Sheep in sh*t, if your down under) and think I really did him a good turn, rahter than thinking I ripped him off,,,,,,,

This ain't my first load of potatoes to town!!!


Your right,,, 5 min would get me out faster,,, but I got to make the GC think he really worked my sorry old ass and got his moneies worth!!!:thumbsup:

BTW,,,, mesh would make NO DIFFERANCE whether I use 20 or 5,,, LOL


Stay thirsty my friends!!!!!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

So let me get this straight....

You started a thread to tell us what you're not going to do tomorrow?

Okay, I'll play....



Tomorrow I am not going to take a bath in cow entrails because I don't see the point in doing so. I'm not going to juggle any plantains either. :laughing:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I reckon that you should be the importer of a product that we have here is Australia, Cornice cement. It has a life of 45min when mixed but if you keep mixing it it is set in 5 min. So what we do on small patches is mix it in a dish as normal take out enough to run your tape stir the crap out of it. Your tapes are set in 5min and the original mix in the dish is ready for the next coat. So then you just repeat the process.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> I reckon that you should be the importer of a product that we have here is Australia, Cornice cement. It has a life of 45min when mixed but if you keep mixing it it is set in 5 min. So what we do on small patches is mix it in a dish as normal take out enough to run your tape stir the crap out of it. Your tapes are set in 5min and the original mix in the dish is ready for the next coat. So then you just repeat the process.


That's brilliant .:thumbsup:


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## Arey85 (Jan 2, 2010)

I thought this was interesting. Still have yet to try it. Saves on mixing time. Any thoughts?


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thanks for the input,,, I don't use 5 min cause I'm old as dirt, I need the break,,, If I mix 20 min with hot water, it sets in 10 mins, that gives me 10 mins to wash up twit coats, go out to the truck, smoke three cigs and drink a beer. Then the next coat of 20 will go on smooth!!!!!
> 
> I really am not trying to get out by lunch time,,, if I do the contractor is gonna think I F'd him,,,,, If I sit there all day, coat it with 20, drink a few beers, he'll be happier than pig in Sh*t (Sheep in sh*t, if your down under) and think I really did him a good turn, rahter than thinking I ripped him off,,,,,,,
> 
> ...


It is a game of illusions isn't it either the illusion is flat walls or in this case the illusion is I'm working my butt off. :thumbup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Arey85 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t6q1UEB4v0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> I thought this was interesting. Still have yet to try it. Saves on mixing time. Any thoughts?


 Cool post,,,, That would work,,, however, if he had pre-filled that hole at the bottom of the second patch, it wouldn't have blistered on him (blisters==places where tape is put over empty holes).

Don't know if any of you have tried this, but if you mix hot-mud with hot water (not room tepreture) but hot water, like your gonna make a cup of instant coffee with,,,,, it sets up faster than you can clean out your pan.

I have a bucket warmer(all-wall),,, its like a baby bottle warmer from hell,,, it heats up a 5 gal bucket of water to like 3 degrees below boiling,,,, just try it,,, mix ya a pan of 20 min with THAT water,, and check it.

Course if your using mesh tape,,, it will set up before you can get back to it,,,, LOL


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## msd (Apr 10, 2011)

why not tape the flats then coat them right away with the same bucket of hot mud


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Arey85 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t6q1UEB4v0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> I thought this was interesting. Still have yet to try it. Saves on mixing time. Any thoughts?


Needed a pre fill . His hawk looks like mine.[ I need a new one]
I agree with capt ,, 20 min. would work as well. ,,, but I've never used that mixture he has there. That 14''x8'' patch would wind up being 3'x3' if I patched it. Window,and door patches I'D rather tear out the entire wall ,,and start over new. Less material /time,,and a much better finish job. Those patches are butt joints ,,,,, and bad ones ..hard to level out.

I would like to try that mix. oh ,, never buttered tape on the hawk...that's a new one for me.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> Needed a pre fill . His hawk looks like mine.[ I need a new one]
> I agree with capt ,, 20 min. would work as well. ,,, but I've never used that mixture he has there. That 14''x8'' patch would wind up being 3'x3' if I patched it. Window,and door patches I'D rather tear out the entire wall ,,and start over new. Less material /time,,and a much better finish job. Those patches are butt joints ,,,,, and bad ones ..hard to level out.
> 
> I would like to try that mix. oh ,, never buttered tape on the hawk...that's a new one for me.


 I wondered about that myself,,, he did mention that he didn't like to get any mud on his hand,,, now that might be why he butterd his tape on the hawk,,, but I rather think he did it to impress DIY's with his hawk skills. Really, it wouldn't have taken any longer to put the mud on the wall, and then put the tape on it.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Arey85 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t6q1UEB4v0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> I thought this was interesting. Still have yet to try it. Saves on mixing time. Any thoughts?


 5 minute mud:thumbsup: thought he said NO SANDING,anyone can smooth out a patch with 4 coats I would think...its the edges that show on a patch:yes:hot water and 20 min. same as 5 minute . That method seemed a little long,looked like he didnt wipe tight humping out patch.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I have a bathroom to do tomarrow,, they cut the rock 4" above the old tub, broke it out, replaced it and then hung 4" strips of rock over the flange at the top of the tub. the wall they had to destruct to enter the new unit needs two pieces of 8' rock. So I have to finish the strips and the "wall" with 20 min mud. The question is this,,,, whats the point of mesh???? since the wall has three 8' angles, that have to be paper-taped, whats the advantage of meshing the flat????? I mean if you mesh the flat, you still have to fill the bevel with mud,,, so we are talking a savings of what???? 5 seconds????. Using paper will insure no crack, and since i will have to wait an hour or so before I re-coat with 20-min whats the point???? There's none, and no reason to short change the HO. Same with the flanges,,, they hung the strips(which amount to bastard butts), If they are meshed, you may save a few seconds, but you gain no strenght. Again, The wait time after 20 min cancels any gain of a few seconds,, and paper insures the seal. The whole job is going to be a WAITING game, for hot-mud to set.
> 
> To sum it up, I'll make a cpl hundred bucks tomarrow for sitting around and watching hot mud set up,,,, If I used mesh, I might save 3 minutes, but then I'd have to go back and fix it later.
> 
> ...


 

This is sooooo funny.
The passion between mesh vs paper is absolutely hillarious. 

Personally, I like straw. :tt2:

Braiding it into a roll of tape does take a little time though...:brows:


(You're just a trouble maker Captain! :jester


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## carberry drywall (Apr 5, 2011)

Hey I like your quote (say no to mesh). Yes you are right mesh has no use what so ever probably some junk a home owner came up with kinda of like the new usg light rock if they can't handle the wieght of drywall get a pro to hang it. Check out our web site www.carberrydrywall.com if you are on facebook join us by liking us under carberry drywall


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> So let me get this straight....
> You started a thread to tell us what you're not going to do tomorrow?
> Okay, I'll play....
> Tomorrow I am not going to take a bath in cow entrails because I don't see the point in doing so. I'm not going to juggle any plantains either. :laughing:


 
I'm not going to stab myself in the leg with a fork!!! 


(Since I'm not really adding anything constructive to this thread I'll be leaving now....but it sure was fun stopping by!)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

rhardman said:


> This is sooooo funny.
> The passion between mesh vs paper is absolutely hillarious.
> 
> Personally, I like straw. :tt2:
> ...


Funny you mention that rick. Finished an addition last week ,on old farm house. the walls in kitchen ,and living room [main house] were a skip trowel
stucco look done by the h/o s wife with pieces of straw everywhere .
I liked It! 

The addition was the new kitchen . I have to do repairs when the old kitchen
is torn out . I'll take pics.. after I do the repairs ,,, the wife will match the design herself. 

I liked this pattern so much ,,I'm doing it in my own kitchen. she placed the straw on the wall. not in the mix. this pattern would work great on a wall in severe disrepair /low budget/old plaster/ cheap way out. fast ,,and easy.


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## Arey85 (Jan 2, 2010)

Just to clarify....I was more interested in his mixture than his methods no mixing. No cleaning a whip no getting out the drill. No cleaning buckets. We all know that's the worst part of working with hot mud. It takes longer to prep and clean than it takes to do the job.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Arey85 said:


> Just to clarify....I was more interested in his mixture than his methods no mixing. No cleaning a whip no getting out the drill. No cleaning buckets. We all know that's the worst part of working with hot mud. It takes longer to prep and clean than it takes to do the job.


Dude.. all he did was mix:blink: could have mixed in pan:yes: playing with mud,making pies,cmon man. P.S. that last piece of pie looked more like crust


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Here is a actual letter from a usg representative , it was posted over at T&J

I was forwarded your message to respond to your inquiry. While I can’t provide all of the information to answer your questions, I can provide you with most answers. Both paper joint tape and fiberglass tape work well when the correct joint compound is used. As you are aware, there are two types of joint compounds, 

1) ready mixed compounds in pails or boxes, and 2) setting type compounds, also called quick set muds or hot muds, available in a range of setting times. As ready mixed compounds dry, as the water evaporates from the compound, it shrinks. On the other hand, as the setting compounds go through the hardening process, they actually expand slightly, just as water does when it changes from liquid to solid as it freezes.

If a finisher uses fiberglass tape with a ready mixed compound, the fiberglass tape strands will not be tensioned or stretched as the compound shrinks. If movement occurs in the gypsum board membrane in the future due to expansion/contraction of the panels because of temperature/humidity changes, slamming of doors, etc, the joint can crack because the fiberglass was not tensioned. However, if setting type compounds had been used, the fiberglass tape will have been stretched and tensioned by the expansion and setting action of the compound, which makes the joint quite strong.


So the answer to your question is that fiberglass tapes do work quite well IF the correct joint compound is used, setting type compound. In a tensile test, paper tape is actually stronger before it breaks, compared to fiberglass tape, which will stretch (but not break). Paper tape works well for joint reinforcement with either ready mixed compound or setting type compound.

Joint cracking can occur for a multitude of reasons; excessive movement in the gypsum partition, lack of control joints in the gypsum assembly or improperly installed control joints, poor environmental conditions at time of product installation, not enough joint compound applied under the joint tape, joint compound too dry under the joint tape during finishing, etc. It is very difficult to determine the root causes when cracks occur. 


Here in the Midwest, Kansas City area, most commercial drywall contractors use paper tape and ready mix compounds for the taping coat and cracks do not occur often. Do It 
Yourself type customers commonly use fiberglass tapes but don’t know about the issue of setting type compounds versus ready mixed compounds and so they purchase the more user friendly ready mix compounds. I get many more calls and complaints about joint cracks from these customer types than I do from commercial contractors.

Lastly, USG sells both paper tape and fiberglass tape (as well as both ready mixed compounds and setting type compounds) so we promote both for use and don’t favor one over the other. Each tape and compound type has advantages and disadvantages.

Hope that helps explain the issue. Thanks for your interest.

Regards,

Jerry Wonderlich
USG Regional Quality Manager
Kansas City

here is the thread where the argument went on http://www.tapingandjointing.com/forum/showthread.php/1222-Paper-versus-fiba

To me, the person who made the last reply in the thread at T&J made the best reply


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

To me, the person who made the last reply in the thread at T&J made the best reply[/QUOTE]

I was told years ago that self praise is no recomendation.:whistling2::whistling2:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I really don't see where guys think it saves them that much time,,, they still have to embed it,,, so all they are saveing is the actuall time it takes to lay it, seconds at best.


You will never get it then.How many times you have to hit that flat???Most of our flats are done after 2 coats.You still trying to figure it out,I hate wiping out tape,coating is much easier.Should I go on,or do you need another beer.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thanks for the input,,, I don't use 5 min cause I'm old as dirt, I need the break,,, If I mix 20 min with hot water, it sets in 10 mins, that gives me 10 mins to wash up twit coats, go out to the truck, smoke three cigs and drink a beer. Then the next coat of 20 will go on smooth!!!!!


That's great,so your gonna sit in the customers driveway drinking beer & smoking buts like a chimney........

Its a no wonder your on dwt so much....I doubt things are slow,who would want any of that crap on there job site.......


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> That's great,so your gonna sit in the customers driveway drinking beer & smoking buts like a chimney........
> 
> Its a no wonder your on dwt so much....I doubt things are slow,who would want any of that crap on there job site.......


That's a bit much.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

USG sells mesh tape.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> That's great,so your gonna sit in the customers driveway drinking beer & smoking buts like a chimney........
> 
> Its a no wonder your on dwt so much....I doubt things are slow,who would want any of that crap on there job site.......


A joke is a joke BUT PERSONAL ATACKS ARE NOT COOL.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Craig mesh does have it's place, and you do sound as if you are worried about time. Think about it this way on the time, a heat and air guy will charge a minum of anywhere from 125 to 200 bucks an hour. and that is just to check the probelm.If your suppling materials , driving to the job, and making the repairs for a couple of hundred bucks , you need to be done within an hour, that way you can go to Your house to drink a beer. And still be able to afford to do so. With that out of the way. I have used mesh in shower areas, along with a simple coat of thin set, very strong , and smooth. come back coat over the top with regular JC. Turns out slick. There is a difference in mesh tapes, i use the thicker mold resistant mesh. works great around flanges,and for multiple patches , yes I use mesh , Double up the layers of mesh where needed, lay it on , mix up quickset and done. I like being able to deal with less materials on personal homes , meaning furniture in the way, carpet on the floor,and so on. if your a big fan of paper, Just mix up some 45 minute mud, place the mud into your Banjo. and your done. Like I have stated, i am not a big fan of mesh, I just use it where It helps out the most. and patches do not require the same amount of strength that paper provides.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Arey85 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t6q1UEB4v0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> I thought this was interesting. Still have yet to try it. Saves on mixing time. Any thoughts?


Interesting....looks like he's borrowed something from the culinary world (they make pasta much the same way with a pile of flour with a well in it for eggs etc.)

I like his method primarily because you don't have to dirty a pan to mix mud for your hawk:thumbsup:

I saw a comment about applying mud to the tape on the hawk as opposed to on the wall....when you "butter" the tape on the hawk you will have mud on the entire surface of the tape in a controlled amount and don't have to be as concerned with voids.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

I forgot not everyone knows how to use a pan and knife:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> That's great,so your gonna sit in the customers driveway drinking beer & smoking buts like a chimney........
> 
> Its a no wonder your on dwt so much....I doubt things are slow,who would want any of that crap on there job site.......


Gee, and here I thought you weren't on DWT for a while because you were busy fixing all your crack houses done in mesh:yes:

captain was missing on DWT for for a long time, and he's back, and thank god for that. He's blunt, calls it like he see's it, and he does know his stuff:thumbsup:

Your work looks nice and pretty when you post it, all straight and level and so forth. But even I can make my work look just like yours if I was looking for a Kodak moment , very easy to do, but not worth it P/w wise.

But I would put my system up against yours any day of the week. Using mesh tape, hotmuds, and no-coat in all your corners is just plain nutz on large jobs. Your using B.S baffles brains mentality to get jobs, and try proclaiming machine work sucks to customers .

When do you start your next house. We could post pics on the speed and progress of your houses against mine. There's me and 2Bjr against how many in your crew ??????:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> I forgot not everyone knows how to use a pan and knife:whistling2:


The question would be, how could you not know how to use a pan and knife.

That would be like a kiwi saying he don't know what a sheep looks like


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Gee, and here I thought you weren't on DWT for a while because you were busy fixing all your crack houses done in mesh:yes:
> 
> captain was missing on DWT for for a long time, and he's back, and thank god for that. He's blunt, calls it like he see's it, and he does know his stuff:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


. 2buck don,t even try and figure out my system. Nocoat in all my corners,that's absurd

No coat is for 45's and outside 90s
 didn't realize doing drywall was a race,thought it was all about flat walls. So criticize me for keep my work flat. 
You would think after doing million dollar homes in the hamptons with mesh, I woulda been canned a long time ago. Do you even know where or what the hamptons is about ? all celebrities,millionaires, its all about the rich out here. no spec crap homes out here. Every thing is custom. 200 boards on average takes me and another guy about 3 1/2 days sanded ready for paint. I can,t believe I'm responding to dwt on my blackberry on lunch. . :whistling2:


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm a mesh and Hotmud man (on flats, paper for internal angles) Form a queue and start bashing. I can take it.
But I don't supply the contractor supplies the materials.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Final touch drywall said:


> . 2buck don,t even try and figure out my system. Nocoat in all my corners,that's absurd
> 
> No coat is for 45's and outside 90s
> didn't realize doing drywall was a race,thought it was all about flat walls. So criticize me for keep my work flat.
> You would think after doing million dollar homes in the hamptons with mesh, I woulda been canned a long time ago. Do you even know where or what the hamptons is about ? all celebrities,millionaires, its all about the rich out here. no spec crap homes out here. Every thing is custom. 200 boards on average takes me and another guy about 3 1/2 days sanded ready for paint. I can,t believe I'm responding to dwt on my blackberry on lunch. . :whistling2:


I'm with 2buck on this one, 3-1/2 days on million dollar homes or at least 200 sheets? Well lets put things into perspective , a million dollar home don't get you much in the Hampton's so from that perspective I would dare to say they aren't much to them, I would have to agree on it is easy to make a picture perfect job but I am sure it is only cosmetic using hot mud and mesh. All and everyone that is sold on that stuff are not owning up to the real quality only because they take the easy road to getting a job done. I guess whatever works works and this will probably be an endless debate till the end of time, don't hear much about Rebels (tape-less) mud lately wondering how that is going.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Hotmud and mesh still gets used here, On some housing companys they send in a team of six, Heat the house up overnight, Then hammer it with Mesh/Hotmuds and there gone, Only takes em a few days, All hand tools, Im picking after a year it all would have shrunk and looks like crap. They must get one airdry on and heat it till its enough to sand, Yuck.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

chris said:


> I forgot not everyone knows how to use a pan and knife:whistling2:


 Pans are only for mud that won't stay on the hawk, that, and for sissy tapers who don't know how to use a hawk and trowel :jester:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

I use mesh and quickset on all my seams everything else gets paper. Mesh is junk on angles and butts. When meshing seams you have a hollow area to apply mesh (mesh is self adhesive) as long as your first coat of quickset is thin enough to work itself into the mesh their won't be any problems, the rest of coats can then be any ready mix mud you choose. I have done it this way since my first job as a rookie. I have been back to many houses we have done this way (additions, remodels, etc...) and their have been no issues. 
After purchasing my first bazooka and retiring the banjo awhile back I did paper all my flats on my first house with bazooka after 3 coats of all purpose fasteners in seam area were still hollow how do you guys deal with this issue do you spot screws in flats while spotting the rest of screws?


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> . 2buck don,t even try and figure out my system. Nocoat in all my corners,that's absurd
> 
> No coat is for 45's and outside 90s
> didn't realize doing drywall was a race,thought it was all about flat walls. So criticize me for keep my work flat.
> You would think after doing million dollar homes in the hamptons with mesh, I woulda been canned a long time ago. Do you even know where or what the hamptons is about ? all celebrities,millionaires, its all about the rich out here. no spec crap homes out here. Every thing is custom. 200 boards on average takes me and another guy about 3 1/2 days sanded ready for paint. I can,t believe I'm responding to dwt on my blackberry on lunch. . :whistling2:


The hamptons must be way over priced 200 board houses are considered starter homes around here. Definately not anywhere close to million dollar homes maybe 150,000 ballpark. Most of the custom homes around here are 350 to 400 boards and even they aren't million dollar homes.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> I use mesh and quickset on all my seams everything else gets paper. Mesh is junk on angles and butts. When meshing seams you have a hollow area to apply mesh (mesh is self adhesive) as long as your first coat of quickset is thin enough to work itself into the mesh their won't be any problems, the rest of coats can then be any ready mix mud you choose. I have done it this way since my first job as a rookie. I have been back to many houses we have done this way (additions, remodels, etc...) and their have been no issues.
> After purchasing my first bazooka and retiring the banjo awhile back I did paper all my flats on my first house with bazooka after 3 coats of all purpose fasteners in seam area were still hollow how do you guys deal with this issue do you spot screws in flats while spotting the rest of screws?


Pre fill. yes.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> B.S baffles brains mentality to get jobs, and try proclaiming machine work sucks to customers .


Your outta your mind,I don't need to sweet talk or bs my way into any jobs,my reputation & via recommendation is all that is needed.All my work is via loyal builders, I have been doing there work for at least the last 15 yrs.They trust me & that is all that is needed.I'm not a big fan of bidding jobs,& if I am pricing against anyone,I will go high cause I really could care less about getting the job. There must be a reason I have jobs coming outta my arse,& am booked till next spring some time.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> That's great,so your gonna sit in the customers driveway drinking beer & smoking buts like a chimney........
> 
> Its a no wonder your on dwt so much....I doubt things are slow,who would want any of that crap on there job site.......


DAMN I wish capt would hurry up,and log on.
I can't wait for his reply on this one.


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## Arey85 (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm really not but I just don't get the pan and knife system. I've seen guys on jobs with the pans and they just look so messy and crusty. How does your mud not dry out in there? I'm a knife and trowel taper myself and I carry 62 pounds of mud with me all around the job on a bucket dolly. Never drys out and the pail handles hold my other trowels. With a little pan you can only carry so much with you I just don't get it. You have two hands each but only one is working. Your other is holding your material. With knife and trowel both of my hands are holding tools and I use them interchangeably. Even using a hawk makes more sense to me than a pan. You can carry more mud and clean it up a bit every once in a while. Again I'm not knocking anyone who uses this method I'm just curious because I don't understand it.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> The hamptons must be way over priced 200 board houses are considered starter homes around here. Definately not anywhere close to million dollar homes maybe 150,000 ballpark. Most of the custom homes around here are 350 to 400 boards and even they aren't million dollar homes.


The 200 was just to give someone an idea how long it takes us to finish a job.

We do on average 1 house a month.Renovation work is very big around here nowadays.More money in reno work anyways.:yes:New home construction is waaaay down,& I am glad cause we don't need any more new homes,just not enough land for it. & they are trying to keep all the farm land out east.
Here's a pool,cabana/garage we just finished.it was only 70 boards.You tell me if in picture 1 if that's a million dollar view


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> DAMN I wish capt would hurry up,and log on.
> I can't wait for his reply on this one.


If hes willing to stir the pot,Then he should be able to take it.
Let em get a few bears in him, then Im sure he'll have a good go at it.
I come here to buy something from someone,& look what I Get myself into. I'll let you guys be with your dwt.Waaaay to busy for this nonsense.good day.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Arey85 said:


> Even using a hawk makes more sense to me than a pan. You can carry more mud and clean it up a bit every once in a while. Again I'm not knocking anyone who uses this method I'm just curious because I don't understand it.


So you think a 14inch hawk can carry more than a 14inch pan,yet you don't use either or. Think again.The only dis-advantage from a pan to a hawk is,its easier to dump a hawk full of mud then it is a pan full of mud.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> The 200 was just to give someone an idea how long it takes us to finish a job.
> 
> We do on average 1 house a month.Renovation work is very big around here nowadays.More money in reno work anyways.:yes:New home construction is waaaay down,& I am glad cause we don't need any more new homes,just not enough land for it. & they are trying to keep all the farm land out east.
> Here's a pool,cabana/garage we just finished.it was only 70 boards.You tell me if in picture 1 if that's a million dollar view


Do you mean the fat shirtless guy I see in the window.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> If hes willing to stir the pot,Then he should be able to take it.
> Let em get a few bears in him, then Im sure he'll have a good go at it.
> I come here to buy something from someone,& look what I Get myself into. I'll let you guys be with your dwt.Waaaay to busy for this nonsense.good day.


IT WAS RUDE. ,,, But I'm glad the economy Is doing so well there .
Maybe you and Obama should have a BEER together .


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## Arey85 (Jan 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> So you think a 14inch hawk can carry more than a 14inch pan,yet you don't use either or. Think again.The only dis-advantage from a pan to a hawk is,its easier to dump a hawk full of mud then it is a pan full of mud.


Not really.....I think a 62 pound pail of mud on wheels can carry more:thumbup: and look mom- no hands...I can move it around the job with a light push from my foot.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> The 200 was just to give someone an idea how long it takes us to finish a job.
> 
> We do on average 1 house a month.Renovation work is very big around here nowadays.More money in reno work anyways.:yes:New home construction is waaaay down,& I am glad cause we don't need any more new homes,just not enough land for it. & they are trying to keep all the farm land out east.
> Here's a pool,cabana/garage we just finished.it was only 70 boards.You tell me if in picture 1 if that's a million dollar view


I see a crack:blink:!


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

my basement has almost 200 sheets:blink:1800' floor??


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

cdwoodcox said:


> Do you mean the fat shirtless guy I see in the window.


 was that 2buck.....hhahahaahahah had to:jester:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Arey85 said:


> I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm really not but I just don't get the pan and knife system. I've seen guys on jobs with the pans and they just look so messy and crusty. How does your mud not dry out in there? I'm a knife and trowel taper myself and I carry 62 pounds of mud with me all around the job on a bucket dolly. Never drys out and the pail handles hold my other trowels. With a little pan you can only carry so much with you I just don't get it. You have two hands each but only one is working. Your other is holding your material. With knife and trowel both of my hands are holding tools and I use them interchangeably. Even using a hawk makes more sense to me than a pan. You can carry more mud and clean it up a bit every once in a while. Again I'm not knocking anyone who uses this method I'm just curious because I don't understand it.


Heat index here today was 103,, I spent lots of time keeping my hawk clean.
I've asked pan guys if they have the same problem, they say yes.
Cleaning a pan takes longer.
A hawk is a easy clean up on hot days .

You trowel guys Impressed me . arey /goodmate/mudslingr/2buckjr,,,

After watching the vids ,,went out and bought a ''16 trowel [Marshall town] Then I went ,and bought a first aid kit. 

been a taper over half my life ,,never had a blade I couldn't handle till now.
It's an art. 

not giving up though ..


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

moore said:


> Heat index here today was 103,, I spent lots of time keeping my hawk clean.
> I've asked pan guys if they have the same problem, they say yes.
> Cleaning a pan takes longer.
> A hawk is a easy clean up on hot days .
> ...


Flat or bow trowel..


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> After watching the vids ,,went out and bought a ''16 trowel [Marshall town] Then I went ,and bought a first aid kit.
> 
> been a taper over half my life ,,never had a blade I couldn't handle till now.
> It's an art.
> ...


:lol: Yep, you'll end up with a few cuts for sure ! Comes with the territory. Just don't try to catch it if you drop it ! :cursing: The 16" is a little large for my liking but either way be careful not to slit your wrist with that thing when wiping off on your hawk very quickly. :yes: A flat trowel is all you'll ever need once you figure it out.
Same techniques as a knife with different hand placement and movement.
That's right ! Don't give up.:thumbsup: You'll pack up the big knives to scrape floors with in no time.

I do well and enjoy working with knives,trowels,hawks,pans and all machines but I still prefer a good hand job that's why I finish with hawk and trowel.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

smisner50s said:


> Flat or bow trowel..


BOW trowel


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> BOW trowel


Ouch, too big

On average I would say most guys use a ten inch bow trowel or flat trowel, then followed by a 12" for sizes. Just like the box sizes. Yes some use bigger, But I would say they use them for specialty stuff. You will kill your arms :yes:. All we own is a 10" curved/bow and I think their technically 10 1/2" or something , then we have one 10" flat and a 11" one.

I'll get 2Bjr to do a basics with a Hawk and trowel video one day. He b1tches when I film him, but I know he likes it, he was going to be a rock star you know:yes: He just bought a cell phone with a camera, just half to get a memory card. From what I seen on you tube, those guys are WTF

But come to think of it, I think it's mudslingr's turn to make a video, he knows how to edit them so......... hint hint


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

FTD, are you actually tring to brag on that busted out capped out bastard butt joint with all the edges that need to be sanded? On the first picture you posted? 
Looks like you need lessons on how to finish out a butt joint instead of filling it up with so much mud it takes a palm sander to flatten it out . BTW the cornerbead,, yeah right, and screws? yeah right. Keep tring and someday you may even make yourself believe your a finisher. Don't post and brag when there is someone around that really knows detail. If I can see it in a picture, it's bad. P.S. I would smoke your azz on a gravy job like the one you posted.


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

betterdrywall said:


> FTD, are you actually tring to brag on that busted out capped out bastard butt joint with all the edges that need to be sanded? On the first picture you posted?
> Looks like you need lessons on how to finish out a butt joint instead of filling it up with so much mud it takes a palm sander to flatten it out . BTW the cornerbead,, yeah right, and screws? yeah right. Keep tring and someday you may even make yourself believe your a finisher. Don't post and brag when there is someone around that really knows detail. If I can see it in a picture, it's bad. P.S. I would smoke your azz on a gravy job like the one you posted.


Wow...that one even hurt me...damn


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

moore said:


> Heat index here today was 103,, I spent lots of time keeping my hawk clean.
> I've asked pan guys if they have the same problem, they say yes.
> Cleaning a pan takes longer.
> A hawk is a easy clean up on hot days .
> ...


16" is really big. i only use a 12" flat trowel these days. i started out using a 14" trowel but about six months ago or so i started using my 12" more and more and now its the only one use. its way easier on the body and i can control it better and push the mud easier with it. someone should start a trowel sizes thread.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> 16" is really big. i only use a 12" flat trowel these days. i started out using a 14" trowel but about six months ago or so i started using my 12" more and more and now its the only one use. its way easier on the body and i can control it better and push the mud easier with it. someone should start a trowel sizes thread.


We can't start a trowel size thread, Slim pickins will go on and on about his 24" trowel :whistling2:

Really, think box sizes, what ever your boxes can do, your trowel can do (bow one) so just a 10 to 12 inch trowel is sufficient, to me a 14" would be max IMO, and I don't own one.

Also, have you ever seen a P&N guy use a 14",16", or bigger inch size knife, maybe for scraping or something, not for every day coating.

I have always said, a 10" curve/bow trowel is a poor tapers 10" box. I could make a 10" trowel look as though a 10" box was ran. So basically, a 10" trowel can substitute for a 10" box. (on butts,beads,flats etc....)


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> To me, the person who made the last reply in the thread at T&J made the best reply


I was told years ago that self praise is no recomendation.:whistling2::whistling2:[/QUOTE]

Check out my new avatar gazman


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

We all do 2Buck.

Ive got a question for you. How the hell do you stay awake. Its 4:05pm here and I am nearly falling asleep. What is it there about 2:05am ? You are a legend.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> We all do 2Buck.
> 
> Ive got a question for you. How the hell do you stay awake. Its 4:05pm here and I am nearly falling asleep. What is it there about 2:05am ? You are a legend.


My nick name is 10 o'clock kelly at work:thumbup:

I just go in 2 or 3 hours later than everyone else, work 2 or 3 hours later than everyone else. That way you avoid rush hours, long lunch line ups, safety inspectors, nobody bugging you etc....... I live outside the city too ,so......(London)

So yep, bed time is around one or two at night, and speaking of bed time, 9 in the morning comes very fast


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> My nick name is 10 o'clock kelly at work:thumbup:
> 
> I just go in 2 or 3 hours later than everyone else, work 2 or 3 hours later than everyone else. That way you avoid rush hours, long lunch line ups, safety inspectors, nobody bugging you etc....... I live outside the city too ,so......(London)
> 
> So yep, bed time is around one or two at night, and speaking of bed time, 9 in the morning comes very fast


So that explains it?? I was wondering myself if you were on something?? I have heard of a few guys working like that, Makes sence i guess if you single, Peak traffic sucks. Not that i have any though.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Peak hour trafic for me is waiting for 2 cars to go past so I can get out of my drive way, the closest trafic light is 45kms.:thumbup::thumbup:
If I have to go to Melbourne or Sydney the best view is in the rear view mirror as i am leaving to come home. I love the country.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

gazman said:


> Peak hour trafic for me is waiting for 2 cars to go past so I can get out of my drive way, the closest trafic light is 45kms.:thumbup::thumbup:
> If I have to go to Melbourne or Sydney the best view is in the rear view mirror as i am leaving to come home. I love the country.


Sweet man, Sounds good, My nearest traffic light is about 250km away. 30mins drive from homes a long way to go for work, I do go further, an hr tops, that would only be once every few years, if that. We dont need to start at ten finish at 7 and go to bed at 2am to avoid the world, The sheep dont like those hrs anyway.


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## Drywall_King (Dec 18, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> . 2buck don,t even try and figure out my system. Nocoat in all my corners,that's absurd
> 
> No coat is for 45's and outside 90s
> didn't realize doing drywall was a race,thought it was all about flat walls. So criticize me for keep my work flat.
> You would think after doing million dollar homes in the hamptons with mesh, I woulda been canned a long time ago. Do you even know where or what the hamptons is about ? all celebrities,millionaires, its all about the rich out here. no spec crap homes out here. Every thing is custom. 200 boards on average takes me and another guy about 3 1/2 days sanded ready for paint. I can,t believe I'm responding to dwt on my blackberry on lunch. . :whistling2:


 
Wow i cant beleave you can throw 200 sheets in a custom home with another mexican friend.... tape, coat, then sand in 3 1/2 days id be worried with your quality because you think your soo fast...


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

2 absolutes for mesh that can't be denied...

1. It's best application is with thin wall /veneer plaster. It's the standard and works perfectly.

2. Very few people know that when the tape is applied, the center is not supposed to be pressed onto the rock. It should be supported along the outer surfaces so that there is room on the back side for the quick set mud to penetrate and surround the fibers. I quoted the USG handbook on this a while back here on DWT.

I've used both and with the mesh I ALWAYS added Plaster of Paris to the mix and "V'd" my butts so the tape wasn't directly on the seam.

NEVER had a problem. :thumbup:

The biggest problem with mesh is having to clean everything after mixing hot mud in 5 gallon buckets and finishing the angles. With the BTE/CanAm flushers you can do the angles easily.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> We can't start a trowel size thread, Slim pickins will go on and on about his 24" trowel :whistling2:


You know, with my 20" trowel I can blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah butt joints blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah flat blah blah blah blah blah blah blah hot mud blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 2 coats blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah pain in the ass blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ego blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah drywall talk blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ridiculous blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> *You know, with my 20" trowel I can* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *butt joints* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *flat *blah blah blah blah blah blah blah* hot mud* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *2 coats* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *pain in the ass* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ego blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *drywall talk* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *ridiculous* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


 
 :brows: :lol: :tt2: :clap:

That's funny!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Ya got to admit this thread kinda livened things up abit round here.

I started the job at 8 am and was gone at 1 pm,, no speed record, but not bad. Had one of them 4" nightmares in the ceiling where they had removed a wall. That took a cpl extra coats to get right. Didn't drink any beer on this one (sorry to dissapoint ya Final), its a remodel with other folks on the job. I do a have a wee little bit of common sense, however, the HO, the two mexicans laying the tile and the GC did smoke a joint together in the back yard. Kinda funny to me that 99% of drywallers smoke weed but think its a crime to drink a beer.But thats another thread (weed VS beer) or stated differantly, (Is it okay to get high at work as long as your doing MY favorite poison?)

I did use paper tape. I figure if I had used mesh I would have probbly saved 30 seconds, maybe, I still would have had to roll it out. So the time savings would be the amount of time it took to mud two 4' runs and one 60" run. That is really the jist of this thread. So many folks say they use mesh and hot mud on repairs to save time. I can't see any time saving points of using mesh on these kinds of jobs, even laying aside the "cracking" issue.

About big trowels, I know a guy that hand tapes, wiping with a 6" off a hawk, then beds his flats with a 22" trowel, and skims with a 10" broad knife off a hawk. Now thats the strangest method I think I have ever run across, but he does turn out a good job. Alot more sanding, but it works. He does his corners and andles with a 4" knife out of a pan,,, so I guess he covers the entire gambit.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings Final,,, I wear my "big boy" pants when I log on.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

This whole thread is great and the debate is always lively!

I bid a job one time and after I left I heard the GC and Painter lit up a joint and then tipped over a 5 gallon bucket of white paint all over the living room carpet...


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

rhardman said:


> This whole thread is great and the debate is always lively!
> 
> I bid a job one time and after I left I heard the GC and Painter lit up a joint and then tipped over a 5 gallon bucket of white paint all over the living room carpet...


 Well thank God they wern't drinking on the job!!!!:thumbsup:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

had a job today, 6 sheets of patches inside an office, just typical changeout on doors and window opening and so forth. Mixed up a sack of 90 min ,and ran the tape with my banjo, worked great! also did a small acustic patch, seprate job, about 2x2 , meshed it, coated with 45 ,took a 5 minute break came back ran a second coat of jc and sprayed.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

rhardman said:


> This whole thread is great and the debate is always lively!
> 
> I bid a job one time and after I left I heard the GC and Painter lit up a joint and then tipped over a 5 gallon bucket of white paint all over the living room carpet...


LMAO:lol:


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

hahaha

ok so how many feet in 3.5 dias?
So you say 54 hrs for smoothwalling how many feet?
Are you honestly stating you can do 1000 feet per day complete?
10,000 feet between 2 of perfect level 4?
so for less than 80 hrs I'd get 10,000 feet of perfect level 4?
NO.
I don't believe you either.


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

I take back everything I said-
I went and looked back at the pictures f/t posted-
that's what we call ready to prepare out here.
Maybe even a coat away from RTP
So yeah 2 coat flats and butts got 3
probably all by hand?
With a pan and knife?
And you're doing 10,000 per week?
do you use a hawk and trowel on the last coat?
Hand coating everything and it really gets flat?
OK you're a stronger finisher than I,
just realize we call that ready to prepare out here.
Not smoothwall. maybe "garage smooth"
but man-
you're the worst kind of little braggart-


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

Ok I read the whole thread.... let me take a shot at this, being that me and final work the same area ( I don't actually know him) we work different here in NY. auto and machine work is frowned upon, while don't agree with that because I can and do run all the tools but if you were to come here and just walk in a house here with auto tools you would probably get less money than a hand finisher ( I didn't make the rules). Here in NY most guys use hawks and knives not trowels, we never texture anything ever. While it might be hard for some of you guys to understand the cost of housing here I will just tell you this, our property taxes for a house on a 60 x 100 lot in a normal middle class neighbor hood are between $8000.00 and $12000.00 that is not a typo fellas we pay the most property taxes in the nation, so when final says a 200 board house is a million bucks you can believe it.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Ouch, too big
> 
> 
> 
> But come to think of it, I think it's mudslingr's turn to make a video, he knows how to edit them so......... hint hint


I like my flat 11"x4.5" Marshalltown with the rubber handle. Good for a 4' wide butt. :blink: Hope you never need one. A 4' wide butt that is !

Well, if it's MY turn I guess I'll have to comply ! :sweatdrop: I'll see what I can do.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

muttbucket said:


> I take back everything I said-
> I went and looked back at the pictures f/t posted-
> that's what we call ready to prepare out here.
> Maybe even a coat away from RTP
> ...


Actually, your post got me thinking with the 10,000 per week.

On those Government union hour paying jobs, someone told me they think like this. A hand taper should beable to handle a 1,000 sq ft worth of drywall in a day, so by the end of the week he has worked on 5,000 sq ft of rock, but only finished 1,000. On those jobs , it's all about the head counts. If they had 40,000 sq ft of drywall to be done, then they would expect 40 men on the job to complete it....... so.........

Some of those hand tapers claim they are doing 5,000 square a week, but their only finishing 1,000 complete.

So does anyone feel over worked and under paid now


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

NYC union tapers are expected to hang at least 5 rolls by hand every 7 hour day and that includes all beads and screws as well.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fenez said:


> NYC union tapers are expected to hang at least 5 rolls by hand every 7 hour day and that includes all beads and screws as well.


The 500 foot rolls ???????

One roll of 500ln ft is suppose to do around 1,500 sq ft of rock, so your saying one guy buy hand taping is doing 7,500 sq a day, along with bead and screws, sounds to me like you NYC tapers might be under paid then:blink:


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

250 rolls. how would you get a 500ft roll on your tape holder?


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

I believe it works out to some where between 110 and 125 boards is expected everyday. some shops more. There are guys that can't do it but they are the first to go when there is a layoff


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fenez said:


> 250 rolls. how would you get a 500ft roll on your tape holder?


Well, just to show I'm not sh1tting ya!! http://www.homedepot.ca/product/cgc-paper-drywall-tape-2-1-16-in-x-500-ft-roll/911199

goes on your Bazooka, machine taper talking here:yes:


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

I know they sell 500ft rolls but almost no one here uses them, most guys hand tape here


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fenez said:


> I believe it works out to some where between 110 and 125 boards is expected everyday. some shops more. There are guys that can't do it but they are the first to go when there is a layoff


125 sheets is still 6,000 sq ft, putting tape on buy hand like that, is called being over worked. But........ most times it is straight go stand ups on those Union jobs .


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

It's always stand ups and no ceilings, it is about the easiest kind of taping there is but....
I never ever worked on a job where guys where doing nothing all day like some of the guys here like to imagine union guys do. When I worked for island taping (the largest taping shop in manhattan) I regularly hung 6 7 and a few times 8 rolls in a day and wasn't the only guy doing it.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fenez said:


> It's always stand ups and no ceilings, it is about the easiest kind of taping there is but....
> I never ever worked on a job where guys where doing nothing all day like some of the guys here like to imagine union guys do. When I worked for island taping (the largest taping shop in manhattan) I regularly hung 6 7 and a few times 8 rolls in a day and wasn't the only guy doing it.


Nope, not disagreeing with you, I have been on those jobs, some guys think they got it easy (some days you do) but there's always some foreman (who's going through a divorce) screaming and shouting all day, usually he's screaming , tape it, coat it, skim it right a way, got to be done for tomorrow. If they see you standing around or if your talking too much , they will see if they can fit their foot up your arse !!!!!!

And heaven forbid if it looked like you were having fun:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fenez said:


> It's always stand ups and no ceilings, it is about the easiest kind of taping there is but....
> I never ever worked on a job where guys where doing nothing all day like some of the guys here like to imagine union guys do. When I worked for island taping (the largest taping shop in manhattan) I regularly hung 6 7 and a few times 8 rolls in a day and wasn't the only guy doing it.


That's gravy work. Taping a 120 board rancher in a day [by hand ] is over worked. I know your right about the cost of housing there. Every 3rd or 4th house we do is for a northerner . The first thing they tell me is the cost of living where there from . Homes/taxes/gas/smokes etc,,,, It's crazy.:yes:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

Drywall_King said:


> Wow i cant beleave you can throw 200 sheets in a custom home with another mexican friend.... tape, coat, then sand in 3 1/2 days id be worried with your quality because you think your soo fast...


Either you don't read to well, or just not very bright. Where did I say I thought we were fast??
 Around here everything is crown and wood trimmings. Very few beads. Flats butts and vaulted ceilings are our main concerns.


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

See moore,I I didn't think the Capt. Was thin skinned. If you can dish it,you better be able to take it. I don't come here to make enemies,its hard to understand my sense of humor on the internet. Years ago when I moved to Tennessee for a year,the guys on the job litterally threatened me if I didn't slow down and take break with them(2 a day + breakfast and lunch)
So my point Iseaople work @ a different pace all over the world,so what 1 thinks is slow may be fast to the next guy and so on......


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> That's gravy work. Taping a 120 board rancher in a day [by hand ] is over worked. I know your right about the cost of housing there. Every 3rd or 4th house we do is for a northerner . The first thing they tell me is the cost of living where there from . Homes/taxes/gas/smokes etc,,,, It's crazy.:yes:


Its so true,that's why all the retirees go south. My dad is 1 of them,very well off,but hates to see his money get sucked away in taxes. He just bought a house in s. Carolina. Dell web is the builder of thee 55 and older comunity,he says they are averaging a house a day be built to all northerners. Says the builder would die for my crew to go down there,he says "you yanks can work."LoL


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

fenez said:


> Ok I read the whole thread.... let me take a shot at this, being that me and final work the same area ( I don't actually know him) we work different here in NY. auto and machine work is frowned upon, while don't agree with that because I can and do run all the tools but if you were to come here and just walk in a house here with auto tools you would probably get less money than a hand finisher ( I didn't make the rules). Here in NY most guys use hawks and knives not trowels, we never texture anything ever. While it might be hard for some of you guys to understand the cost of housing here I will just tell you this, our property taxes for a house on a 60 x 100 lot in a normal middle class neighbor hood are between $8000.00 and $12000.00 that is not a typo fellas we pay the most property taxes in the nation, so when final says a 200 board house is a million bucks you can believe it.


So what you're confirming is that a million dollars is relative....here a 200 sheet house goes for about $300-400,000.......and that's nicely equipped. And we don't get paid any more for them unless it's specified that the finish is something special. Saying "I finish million dollar homes" is fun for the ego, but doesn't really carry much water in your location. Million dollar homes here are pretty stinking fancy......8-10000 floor feet, timbers, giant cathedrals, stone and tile galore, stainless steel kitchen with wood-fired pizza oven made from authentic roman bricks (okay, I made up the roman bricks part but who knows?).


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> Years ago when I moved to Tennessee for a year,the guys on the job litterally threatened me if I didn't slow down and take break with them(2 a day + breakfast and lunch)


I can't stand it when I'm "forced" to take breaks. And they took a breakfast break? Aren't you supposed to do that at home before work? Some guys think work should be a social activity...hey, it's nice if you wind up having a conversation with someone, but making time for it multiple times a day?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

it's about the same here. the average price range that i work on for houses is 800,000 in the not as good neighbourhoods and 1,000,000 and up everywhere else. we don't even really have bad parts of town here anymore everything is so unnafordable that everything is has been regentrified. except the downtown eastside. i don't think anywhere in north america has such open drug use. it's vancouvers black eye for sure.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I can't stand it when I'm "forced" to take breaks. And they took a breakfast break? Aren't you supposed to do that at home before work? Some guys think work should be a social activity...hey, it's nice if you wind up having a conversation with someone, but making time for it multiple times a day?


I'm with ya Slim. Never got the 10,12,and 2 BS. 
I step out of the truck,,, Its on..
When I've gottin what I think Is enough done for the day ,or just run out of gas. I pack it up. Yappers are ignored . IT WORKS. They get the point ,,and go away.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I used to work like I was fighting fire,,,, now I work like my arse is on fire,,,LOL

I take a bunch of breaks, but over the years I have learned to make every move count and I get more done today than I did when I RAN all day long.

As ya get older you have to learn to pace yourself, or hurt yourself. I still get more done than the young guys that are running, but thats cause I have learned every trick in the book and they are concentrating on "forcing" it through cause they are tough.

Think about it


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I used to work like I was fighting fire,,,, now I work like my arse is on fire,,,LOL
> 
> I take a bunch of breaks, but over the years I have learned to make every move count and I get more done today than I did when I RAN all day long.
> 
> ...


You are dead right Capt. I have alway called that working smarter not harder. I have 2 blokes in there early twentys working for me and niether of them have any chance od keeping up with the old fart. It realy ticks them off.:thumbsup:


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Capt---us old guys bust our a$$ so hard ,theres a crack down the middle


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

DSJOHN said:


> Capt---us old guys bust our a$$ so hard ,theres a crack down the middle


As you get older you just have to be carefull that the crack doesnt leak when you bend over.:jester:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

gazman said:


> As you get older you just have to be carefull that the crack doesnt leak when you bend over.:jester:


 I see you know the differance in a fart and a shart


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> You are dead right Capt. I have alway called that working smarter not harder. I have 2 blokes in there early twentys working for me and niether of them have any chance od keeping up with the old fart. It realy ticks them off.:thumbsup:


You guys are talking trash now.
I'm 43 ,,,pulled muscles ,and torn muscles have taught me lotsinch:..
I'm still faster than some 2 men crews [20S] I know of .
The younger guys are all about the bull sh!tin all day . they make mistakes cause there not paying attention to what there doing. 
It's all about focus.... and you old goats are right pacing yourself keeps you from getting hurt. They say Drywall Is a young mans game.
I disagree ... Lord knows what my work looked like when I was in my late teens/early 20s . I wasn't gonna do this the rest my life. YEAH RIGHT!


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

moore said:


> You guys are talking trash now.
> I'm 43 ,,,pulled muscles ,and torn muscles have taught me lotsinch:..
> I'm still faster than some 2 men crews [20S] I know of .
> The younger guys are all about the bull sh!tin all day . they make mistakes cause there not paying attention to what there doing.
> ...


It doesnt REALY hurt until you get over 45.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> You guys are talking trash now.
> I'm 43 ,,,pulled muscles ,and torn muscles have taught me lotsinch:..
> I'm still faster than some 2 men crews [20S] I know of .
> The younger guys are all about the bull sh!tin all day . they make mistakes cause there not paying attention to what there doing.
> ...


I was talking to an old timer a while back and he said the main problem with his work (L5 at the time) was that he couldn't see as well as he'd like to.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> It doesnt REALY hurt until you get over 45.


Oh so true Gazman, I take it your already there:blink:
Was talking to two other tapers from the company over the weeks, both good guys, the one, was 42, said he feels great, I was like just wait, and proceeded into my whining act (us tapers are good at that:yes But he just shrugged my comments off.

The other taper, (looks in good shape) just turned 45, I sat and listened to him whine instead. He could not believe how tired he felt all the time now, even his eyelids felt tired. He never took naps before when he had a day off, but now he does (me too) and the pain...... whine whine whine..........

Just letting you young bucks know, your days are numbered


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I was talking to an old timer a while back and he said the main problem with his work (L5 at the time) was that he couldn't see as well as he'd like to.


When I half to talk to a new builder/customer etc........ I always say 2Bjr is my speed, and that I'm the eyes of the operation and proceed to put my glasses on


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh so true Gazman, I take it your already there:blink:
> Was talking to two other tapers from the company over the weeks, both good guys, the one, was 42, said he feels great, I was like just wait, and proceeded into my whining act (us tapers are good at that:yes But he just shrugged my comments off.
> 
> The other taper, (looks in good shape) just turned 45, I sat and listened to him whine instead. He could not believe how tired he felt all the time now, even his eyelids felt tired. He never took naps before when he had a day off, but now he does (me too) and the pain...... whine whine whine..........
> ...


Yep certanly am 2Buck. I am a 1964 model. Crap that sounds like a long time ago.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> Yep certanly am 2Buck. I am a 1964 model. Crap that sounds like a long time ago.


The 62 model is way better:whistling2:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> The 62 model is way better:whistling2:


No that model had fins and the tail lights wernt as nice.:whistling2::whistling2:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

cazna said:


> JUST SAY NO, Bad mesh, Good slogan Capt, it might catch on.
> 
> Im Saying NO, NZ is a country of hotmuds, So here its been tested and tested over and over, and it cracks, Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but as soon as the ground shakes it cracks, Or even a storm stressin the house, CRACK, Or a hot fire on a cold day CRACK. Or a wet damp springtime then it drys out over summer CRACK, Or someone slams a door with a butt above it, CRACK.
> 
> If people dont like wiping out paper then fibafuse is easy to wipe, For a bad suspect seam, fibafuse, roll flat, then papertape and roll flat again, Thats one strong seam :thumbsup: Easy to do.



the great cazna OMG


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## Brian S (Apr 17, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> The 62 model is way better:whistling2:


No I disagree, I think the prototype model of 1952 was the best design:thumbup:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Brian S said:


> No I disagree, I think the prototype model of 1952 was the best design:thumbup:


Very rare to find one that age thats not a rust bucket.:jester: Nice:thumbsup:


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## Brian S (Apr 17, 2011)

No rust, very high mileage, just begining to show some wear and tear


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I used to work like I was fighting fire,,,, now I work like my arse is on fire,,,LOL
> 
> I take a bunch of breaks, but over the years I have learned to make every move count and I get more done today than I did when I RAN all day long.
> 
> ...


Be smart young men!
I have a left knee that wants to buckle because in my 20's and 30's I thought making money was a direct result of speed.

For me, "GO! GO! GO!" has now resulted in "PAIN! PAIN! PAIN!" nearly every single day. 

Take care of your bodies guys.

...just sayin..._very respectfully._ :thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Brian S said:


> No I disagree, I think the prototype model of 1952 was the best design:thumbup:


 52 was the prototype, but they perfected it in 53,,,,:thumbup:

Okay, its my lie, I can tell it as big as I want too


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

1968 ... I think the muscle came in about that time.


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

1978. I'm more of a lean, slimlined version. (tall and Skinny).


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## quis414 (Jul 16, 2011)

that got in the video is useless....lol...i think i can skim a whole room by the time he tapes 2 patches


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Goodmanatee said:


> 1978. I'm more of a lean, slimlined version. (tall and Skinny).


 78????? Good God man, I was drafted in 72:yes:

Funny how time slips away:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 78????? Good God man, I was drafted in 72:yes:
> 
> Funny how time slips away:whistling2:


drafted in 72... A thank you is not enough.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> drafted in 72... A thank you is not enough.


 I appreciate that, but again, drafted was the key word,,, lol.. I ain't a hero like the guys and gals that serve today,,, I went kicking and screaming!!!!!!!!!

I did make it back to pursue an exciting career in the drywall bussiness.:thumbup:


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

there you go-
waxing philosophical
if I had a bright idea for everytime I thought-
gosh, where has the time gone,
id be feeding sheep in kneeedeep oceanwater somewhere near Fiji-
no no that dream is long since dashed
I more want a commander and to haul the goats from performance to performance in my newly built trailer just like you remember matchbox-
metal rails 4 ft and 72"x48" floor
hauling it with my scout-
ahhh the simple life right?
RIGHT?:drink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I appreciate that, but again, drafted was the key word,,, lol.. I ain't a hero like the guys and gals that serve today,,, I went kicking and screaming!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I did make it back to pursue an exciting career in the drywall bussiness.:thumbup:


Sh1t...... did you half to serve in Vietnam


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> Sh1t...... did you half to serve in Vietnam


 Yeah, thats the only time I ever won the lottery,,,, Nixon decided that they would put everyone's b-day in a hat and draw them out. They'd take em that way,,, I think they thought that would be fair,,,,, Like Kiwi's sheep, i didn't think it was such a cool idea!!!!!:thumbsup::whistling2:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Just crossing my finger ,hope my son doesn't have to spend time in ******* land, 2buck thats an area oversea somewhere and the men abuse the camels and goats like kiwi's do sheep,


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I see a new line of camel jokes!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Yeah, thats the only time I ever won the lottery,,,, Nixon decided that they would put everyone's b-day in a hat and draw them out. They'd take em that way,,, I think they thought that would be fair,,,,, Like Kiwi's sheep, i didn't think it was such a cool idea!!!!!:thumbsup::whistling2:


 ok, not funny that you got sent to Vietnam, but that was the best sheep joke yet.:thumbup:

My hat goes off to you, I don't think I could go off to war, I'm a bit of a war buff, and the stories and things I see and read about......well...... guess I don't need to explain it to you


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

are you voting for Change captain? Ha! Ok I'll see if I can come up with a camel joke or two.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> are you voting for Change captain? Ha! Ok I'll see if I can come up with a camel joke or two.


 Oh yeah,,,,, I'd vote for Elmer Fudd ifin he ran agin who we got now,,

he could do sumthin about them rascally rabbits


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> Just crossing my finger ,hope my son doesn't have to spend time in ******* land, 2buck thats an area oversea somewhere and the men abuse the camels and goats like kiwi's do sheep,


 I hope he don't either Steve,,, But he's a tough nut and he knows how to take of himself. Really, he's a good kid.:thumbup:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Why are camels called ships of the desert?
Because they are filled with Arab semen!


Thanks Captain!

Just ran across this one, not sure if it has been posted yet, new to me anyway, here goes,,,,,,,


Man walks into his bedroom with a sheep under his arm. His wife is lying in bed reading. Man says, "This is the pig I have sex with when you've got a headache." Wife replies, "I think you'll find that is a sheep." Man replies, "I think you'll find I was talking to the sheep."


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

betterdrywall said:


> Why are camels called ships of the desert?
> Because they are filled with Arab semen!
> 
> 
> Thanks Captain!


No you didn't just say that did ya??????


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Whats the 1st thing you learn in a A**b army.:whistling2:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

betterdrywall said:


> Just crossing my finger ,hope my son doesn't have to spend time in ******* land, 2buck thats an area oversea somewhere and the men abuse the camels and goats like kiwi's do sheep,


 Ahem....I'm sitting right here you know :glare:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> Ahem....I'm sitting right here you know :glare:


 Sorry , I am just confused as to who has the most sheep right now Canada or New Zealand????


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

betterdrywall said:


> Sorry , I am just confused as to who has the most sheep right now Canada or New Zealand????


 Me too, I thought Canadians were beaver lovers but they seem to be hung up on sheep, there might be a hybrid out there I don't know about.... a sheaver?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> Sorry , I am just confused as to who has the most sheep right now Canada or New Zealand????


The kiwi's have the most sheep

We Canucks have the most beavers

And you yanks have the most pussy-cats , think that's why you guys say there's more than one way to skin a cat


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## Goodmanatee (Sep 24, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 78????? Good God man, I was drafted in 72:yes:
> 
> Funny how time slips away:whistling2:


Respect the army dudes. Had a friend in the royal commandos, he's just joined the MET police. And my cousin works in Iraq.
Is that where the name captain comes from?


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

Goodmanatee said:


> Respect the army dudes. Had a friend in the royal commandos, he's just joined the MET police. And my cousin works in Iraq.
> Is that where the name captain comes from?


 
See, I always pictured him with a peg leg and an eye patch, brandishing a sabre with a wench under the other arm. Yarr!




j/k Cap'n!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Jason said:


> See, I always pictured him with a peg leg and an eye patch, brandishing a sabre with a wench under the other arm. Yarr!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not at all,,, my dad was a cptn in the navy,,,,, I was just a grunt,,,,

I got the name from a guy I was working with one time,,, I was busting his chops, and he said "Okay,,,, Capt sheetrock, we'll do it your way"

I was probbly wrong that time too


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