# Which way do you hang the rock?



## jcampbell

I was taught to hang the lids parallel with the strapping and hang the walls perpendicular to the wall studs(sometimes upright but not very often. The last house I subbed out the taping but the taper wanted the the lids hung the opposite way , perpendicular to the strapping. What do you do?


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## jcampbell

I have never had a problem with anything opening up , just the odd ceiling angle due to the trusses moving in the extreme heat of the summer. This was a new house framed up in the early fall and closed in by middle November and boarded by Christmas I believe.


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## Capt-sheetrock

You should always hang across the framimg, not "with it"

this does not apply to commercial jobs where "money" is all they care about


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## chris

jcampbell said:


> I was taught to hang the lids parallel with the strapping and hang the walls perpendicular to the wall studs(sometimes upright but not very often. The last house I subbed out the taping but the taper wanted the the lids hung the opposite way , perpendicular to the strapping. What do you do?


The taper was right . We only run with the framing if the trusses change layout in a room and add backing to the butts otherwise your butts arnt screwed good


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## Kiwiman

Over here you're in big trouble if you run with the framing, if the truss changes layout then the board changes layout with it....always across the frame.


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## gazman

Around here the builders trim between the trusses so as the battens (Furring, strapping, resilliant, or what ever you want to call it) all run in one direction. Then the rock runs across the battens. Always across never with.


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## boco

I run them both ways. I like going with the straping but if I can can eliminate butts. Its going the other way. I am using 12 footers right now. Most bedrooms are 16x12. I wont have any butts in them even though i may have to go against the strapping. :thumbsup:


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## moore

Sheetrock has a grain to it just like wood..Railroading creates a weak ceiling .When the timber ..strapped or not does it's thing those railroaded ceilings will wave at you.
I've been called many times to look at railroaded ceilings .When the g/c or h/o ask me what can be done? I say tear out and start over!
Which is a real bitch for the h/o when they just turned the key


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## bfd_ast

We hang across framing unless in a small closet then we stand it up. That's the only time unless commercial and moneys not there


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## thefinisher

moore said:


> Sheetrock has a grain to it just like wood..Railroading creates a weak ceiling .When the timber ..strapped or not does it's thing those railroaded ceilings will wave at you.
> I've been called many times to look at railroaded ceilings .When the g/c or h/o ask me what can be done? I say tear out and start over!
> Which is a real bitch for the h/o when they just turned the key


Yep indeed. I am not a fan of sheetrock getting run parallel regardless of walls or ceilings.... especially ceilings. It will bow every time down the road. Same thing will happen with 1/2" rock being hung on 24" centers on the ceiling where it needs 5/8". You may possible be able to get away with using 5/8" rock on the ceilings parallel..... but that is for you to find out and report back to us lol.


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## boco

5/8s on lids is the norm here. Sheetrockers hate it . Tapers love it:thumbup:. I actually just ordered some 14 footers for my next projects. I went over it today. 1250 sqft ranch. There should only be 8 butts on in the entire house and only because of a pair of trey ceilings.


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## smisner50s

boco said:


> 5/8s on lids is the norm here. Sheetrockers hate it . Tapers love it:thumbup:. I actually just ordered some 14 footers for my next projects. I went over it today. 1250 sqft ranch. There should only be 8 butts on in the entire house and only because of a pair of trey ceilings.


Use butt boards and it doesent matter how many butts you got.
There all gonna finish the same..i keep them on stock..there great


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## SlimPickins

smisner50s said:


> Use butt boards and it doesent matter how many butts you got.
> There all gonna finish the same..i keep them on stock..there great


Sorry man...respect you and all but those things suck. Way too much fill for my liking. Yes, they come out flat, but it takes a 20" trowel and a pile of mud to get there.

Rebatemate joints are far superior:thumbsup:


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## smisner50s




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## SlimPickins

By the way, I hang the rock with the whitish (or green or purple or whatever) paper on the side that sticks out from the wall.


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## smisner50s

SlimPickins said:


> Sorry man...respect you and all but those things suck. Way too much fill for my liking. Yes, they come out flat, but it takes a 20" trowel and a pile of mud to get there.
> 
> Rebatemate joints are far superior:thumbsup:


Hey thats cool...but the rebatemate is cool tool..but that stud the butt is on can still move and make a mess not saying it will but there is a chance....butt boards that joint cant move that is my outlook


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## moore

SlimPickins said:


> Sorry man...respect you and all but those things suck. Way too much fill for my liking. Yes, they come out flat, but it takes a 20" trowel and a pile of mud to get there.
> 
> Rebatemate joints are far superior:thumbsup:


 Buttboards.. beat the chit out of a bastard butt!!!:whistling2::yes:


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## SlimPickins

smisner50s said:


> Hey thats cool...but the rebatemate is cool tool..but that stud the butt is on can still move and make a mess not saying it will but there is a chance....butt boards that joint cant move that is my outlook


You're right on that point, for sure. However, you could solve the problem of the moving butt joint by breaking the rebate joint in between studs and using flat stock instead of the beveled butt-boards.

I guess it's all just personal preference. I much prefer the butt-boards for hanging (time saving, easy, etc) but the rebatemate joints for finishing.



moore said:


> Buttboards.. beat the chit out of a bastard butt!!!:whistling2::yes:


Nobody likes a bastard moore:no:


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## smisner50s

SlimPickins said:


> You're right on that point, for sure. However, you could solve the problem of the moving butt joint by breaking the rebate joint in between studs and using flat stock instead of the beveled butt-boards.
> 
> I guess it's all just personal preference. I much prefer the butt-boards for hanging (time saving, easy, etc) but the rebatemate joints for finishing.
> 
> Nobody likes a bastard moore:no:


I do like the idea of the rebatemate joint ..some day ill buy one..i do love tools


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## SlimPickins

smisner50s said:


> I do like the idea of the rebatemate joint ..some day ill buy one..i do love tools


:thumbsup: Me tool. I'm a sucker for tools. It's a bit of a problem.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> View attachment 6219


Don't the insulation push out on that butt board.

Not sure if it's in our building code or anything, but they tend to get pissy if you float out the butts, which is what we call them "floater" 

I have visions in my head, of a Home owner hanging up a picture with a hammer and nails. The golden spot that they would pick to hang it, would be right on that butt board:yes:


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## boco

smisner50s said:


> Use butt boards and it doesent matter how many butts you got.
> There all gonna finish the same..i keep them on stock..there great


 Good idea. This one is going to be my first trey ceiling using the 3/4 step a bull from trim tex. Its the first in a developement of 7 spec homes so its really needs to shine. Houses arent really flying of the shelves here so anything i can do to help them sell is worth while.


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Don't the insulation push out on that butt board.
> 
> Not sure if it's in our building code or anything, but they tend to get pissy if you float out the butts, which is what we call them "floater"
> 
> I have visions in my head, of a Home owner hanging up a picture with a hammer and nails. The golden spot that they would pick to hang it, would be right on that butt board:yes:


 LOL!!!!!!:lol::lol: It would be best to hang that picture over a flashing butt joint!:thumbup:


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## gazman

As long as they keep making tools there is no problem.


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## SlimPickins

gazman said:


> As long as they keep making tools there is no problem.


I will try to be considerate and save some tools for you.


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## ant

*hey fellas need some help*

Got a job in my building to hang some drywall to concrete...I'm not sure what the best thing is to do tapcon with mud or pound shots with mud or is there a better way:jester:


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## evolve991

moore said:


> Sheetrock has a grain to it just like wood..Railroading creates a weak ceiling .When the timber ..strapped or not does it's thing those railroaded ceilings will wave at you.
> I've been called many times to look at railroaded ceilings .When the g/c or h/o ask me what can be done? I say tear out and start over!
> Which is a real bitch for the h/o when they just turned the key


 
:thumbsup:And since when were trusses ever all perfectly parallel?:blink: Open span trusses are wiggly from the get go...banded on the truck,stocked on the ground and hardly ever braced back to true. 
We end up scabbing just to fall on solid wood! TJIs are wide enough to stay on stud with railroading but even they have a slight cup on one side that humps the bevel. Given a choice we only railroad when making a transition across hipped studs and crazy direction changes.


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## evolve991

moore said:


> LOL!!!!!!:lol::lol: It would be best to hang that picture over a flashing butt joint!:thumbup:


 
We need to educate HOs to use screws instead of nails when hanging things. Maybe even a screw/anchor:yes:.....wait...did I really just say that? nevermind........


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## SlimPickins

ant said:


> Got a job in my building to hang some drywall to concrete...I'm not sure what the best thing is to do tapcon with mud or pound shots with mud or is there a better way:jester:


How much rock? Tapcons and sheetrock aren't a very good combination although they'll work. I'd use some PL instead of mud.....or you could tapcon some 1x4s or 1x3s to the wall and have some smooth drywall sailing:thumbsup:


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## Toolnut

SlimPickins said:


> :thumbsup: Me tool. I'm a sucker for tools. It's a bit of a problem.:yes:


Tell me about it.:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon


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## gordie

2buckcanuck said:


> Don't the insulation push out on that butt board.
> 
> Not sure if it's in our building code or anything, but they tend to get pissy if you float out the butts, which is what we call them "floater"
> 
> I have visions in my head, of a Home owner hanging up a picture with a hammer and nails. The golden spot that they would pick to hang it, would be right on that butt board:yes:


 I got to agree with you 2 buck i used to do this when i started out got in a little chit for it {doing but boards that is}..

The taper was who bi#@hed what ever i was new. Since then i just pick the best stud to land on you get good at seeing bad framing.

I can't say what was wrong i hate getting in chit so i didn't make a big deal just moved on. 

but when i do realize im gonna half to do it because bad framing can't be avoided ill go back to it..

I noticed in the picture of the butt board,,the backing stopped at the bottom of the board when i half to use backing i bring it down 6" lower so you can conect the bottom board to it makes it stronger..:thumbsup:


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## gordie

I've got two quetions on this thread i could ask?

1st lids we put alot of res bar on lids and walls. with lids would it be ok to go with the framing ive asked this before amongst the guys i work with they all said you can't but had no good reason typical.

2nd walls we put res bar on walls espetially on 9ft guess because with 9ft units the're higher end than 8' so they care about noise. we used to get 54's but latly we have been getting 9'ers and doing stand ups so the board will run across the bars instead of with it i love it makes it easy for me are the stand ups a big pain for u tapers.


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## jcampbell

Ya ....I don't quite understand the logic behind going against the grain. Maybe boarding on bare trusses but with 1x4 strapping it would only make sense to go with it so more of the seams secure instead of only the butts . there's more taped edges than butts in a ceiling. However with the advice of fellow dwt members the lid I'm hanging now is goin up against the grain. They know more about drywall than I do. I was taught by a carpenter not a drywaller. Gonna try out a few butt boards in the basement as well to see how it goes. Have to make my own though.


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## evolve991

Oh hell yeah stand ups can be awesome! As long as the studs are all centered and there isn't many bowed studs. It's ceilings that are more problems railroading especially with open span trusses. The main problem is wood shrinking and twisting which tends to cause more unraveled joints,etc. The whole idea with butt boards is that the joint maintains strength no matter what the framing does and with actual butt boards or metal studs the butt becomes a bevel from the offset of the board and eliminates floating more mud to hide the joint.


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## gordie

evolve991 said:


> Oh hell yeah stand ups can be awesome! As long as the studs are all centered and there isn't many bowed studs. It's ceilings that are more problems railroading especially with open span trusses. The main problem is wood shrinking and twisting which tends to cause more unraveled joints,etc. The whole idea with butt boards is that the joint maintains strength no matter what the framing does and with actual butt boards or metal studs the butt becomes a bevel from the offset of the board and eliminates floating more mud to hide the joint.


when you use res bar stand ups are even better because your boards are going across the res bar and you don't have to worry about bad framing.. And i hate putting 54's on res bar but i do what ever the d.c. wants in this case it's stand ups lovin it...


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## gordie

jcampbell said:


> Ya ....I don't quite understand the logic behind going against the grain. Maybe boarding on bare trusses but with 1x4 strapping it would only make sense to go with it so more of the seams secure instead of only the butts . there's more taped edges than butts in a ceiling. However with the advice of fellow dwt members the lid I'm hanging now is goin up against the grain. They know more about drywall than I do. I was taught by a carpenter not a drywaller. Gonna try out a few butt boards in the basement as well to see how it goes. Have to make my own though.


 Actually I almost always board against the framing unless there is a transition in the framing half way in the room..

It's just that when i hang res bar you think i could run the steal with the framing i would still cross the res bar with the board..

It would make hanging the res bar a breez you would'nt have to measure anything but like i said i was told i can't with no good reason. Just a thought??


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## jcampbell

gordie said:


> Actually I almost always board against the framing unless there is a transition in the framing half way in the room..
> 
> It's just that when i hang res bar you think i could run the steal with the framing i would still cross the res bar with the board..
> 
> It would make hanging the res bar a breez you would'nt have to measure anything but like i said i was told i can't with no good reason. Just a thought??


I have never had to use res bar but installing it across the trusses adds a lot of stability to the bottom chords of the trusses......less chance of call backs for sure. Wood trusses move a lot when they dry out or take in moisture. Perpendicular strapping or channel res bar will take a lot of movement out installed perpendicular .


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## gazman

gordie said:


> Actually I almost always board against the framing unless there is a transition in the framing half way in the room..
> 
> It's just that when i hang res bar you think i could run the steal with the framing i would still cross the res bar with the board..
> 
> It would make hanging the res bar a breez you would'nt have to measure anything but like i said i was told i can't with no good reason. Just a thought??



Consider this, if you run your bar with the truss and there is movement of that truss it will still be acting over the same surface area of the board that it would have if you direct fixed to the truss. On the other hand by running your bar across the truss that movement is acting over a larger surface area by transferring that movement to a number of res bars.


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## moore

gazman said:


> Consider this, if you run your bar with the truss and there is movement of that truss it will still be acting over the same surface area of the board that it would have if you direct fixed to the truss. On the other hand by running your bar across the truss that movement is acting over a larger surface area by transferring that movement to a number of res bars.


 There for...If one truss wants to move ..Thay ALL have to move 
With the bar run across the truss below and the trusses being braced properly above ..It's a Win Win!


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## Mudshark

gordie said:


> Actually I almost always board against the framing unless there is a transition in the framing half way in the room..
> 
> It's just that when i hang res bar you think i could run the steal with the framing i would still cross the res bar with the board..
> 
> It would make hanging the res bar a breez you would'nt have to measure anything but like i said i was told i can't with no good reason. Just a thought??


gordie - if you hang the res bar with the framing it is likely your screws when you hang the board will go into the framing which is a big no no ! :yes:


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## gordie

Well it does make sense that the trusses, and or joists on lower floors do shift.. and it just might even that out a bit going across instead of with. so if that's the case you definately can't go with the truss when just boarding,, i don't just because the framing doesn't usually work. 

O and res bar or sound bar is screwed through a flange on one side of the bar so you would be able to screw it to the truss and the res bar would hang to the left ,or right of the truss.. So your screws would not hit any wood.. I thought of that i just wondered if a guy could hang it with the framing..
this thread just got me wondering?


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## ubcguy89

I always railroad walls, and I never railroad lids. railroading walls is easier, and since I dont finish I dont care


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## gordie

ubcguy89 said:


> I always railroad walls, and I never railroad lids. railroading walls is easier, and since I dont finish I dont care



my finishers get me lots of good work so i do give a sh#t:jester:


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## Mudshark

gordie said:


> my finishers get me lots of good work so i do give a sh#t:jester:


Thats what all boarders should remember.


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## evolve991

Mudshark said:


> Thats what all boarders should remember.


We only get work from 1 finisher now....the pickiest,best paying,most high end finisher we know:whistling2: Need I say what our attitude towards finishers is?


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## ubcguy89

gordie said:


> my finishers get me lots of good work so i do give a sh#t:jester:


if you hang commercial you also railroad walls. I didnt mean it sound like I dont care about my finishers, but if I have to bend over to screw it off they can bend over to tape a joint thats all. I would never abuse them, because they make my good work and make it great work


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## gordie

Any commercial work done out here,, fire separation walls all have 2 layers so one will follow the stud then the finish layer will cross the studs.


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## ubcguy89

gordie said:


> Any commercial work done out here,, fire separation walls all have 2 layers so one will follow the stud then the finish layer will cross the studs.


Core walls are always two layers of 1'' shaft liner and a layer of 5/8. fire rated walls here are one layer of 5/8 type x, topped off and fire taped. we stand them up in commercial work. your tapers have to hate you knowing you are going to lay down your board then they will have to fill the tapered edge of the sheet near the floor for cove base.


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## 2buckcanuck

ubcguy89 said:


> Core walls are always two layers of 1'' shaft liner and a layer of 5/8. fire rated walls here are one layer of 5/8 type x, topped off and fire taped. we stand them up in commercial work. your tapers have to hate you knowing you are going to lay down your board then they will have to fill the tapered edge of the sheet near the floor for cove base.


If using this type of vinyl base board, then yes the bevell has to be filled once. Plus the drywall is to be kept off the floor just a bit also, so if the gap is more than a 1/4" or so.......


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## Mudshark

ubcguy89 said:


> Core walls are always two layers of 1'' shaft liner and a layer of 5/8. fire rated walls here are one layer of 5/8 type x, topped off and fire taped. we stand them up in commercial work. your tapers have to hate you knowing you are going to lay down your board then they will have to fill the tapered edge of the sheet near the floor for cove base.


Or teach the boarders to run 2 foot rippers along the bottom. Problem solved. :whistling2:


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## gordie

ubcguy89 said:


> Core walls are always two layers of 1'' shaft liner and a layer of 5/8. fire rated walls here are one layer of 5/8 type x, topped off and fire taped. we stand them up in commercial work. your tapers have to hate you knowing you are going to lay down your board then they will have to fill the tapered edge of the sheet near the floor for cove base.



Ya I've done hospitals and groserie stores stand ups. big deal We take on wharehouses with 25' walls and houses with 22' vaults windows and sky lights climbing up the walls and lid.So no my tapers don't hate me we get along pretty good:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

gordie said:


> my tapers don't hate me we get along pretty good:whistling2:


Could also be that case of beer you keep in the back of the truck on ice:thumbup:


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## chris

Whenever we do a job that is using that cheap arse rubber base the builder will ask for us to hang rock all the way down. In other words dont leave a gap ( a very tight one if needed). We lay them down and have never been asked to fill a recess ( bevel), thats the rubber base guys job to worry about. Load it with glue:thumbsup:


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## gordie

2buckcanuck said:


> Could also be that case of beer you keep in the back of the truck on ice:thumbup:



That's the the problem spend too much on beer and herb so i drive a beat up mini van, were on our forth van no trucks for us


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