# level 5



## marinerito (Oct 28, 2008)

Hi is a question because I do 3 coats for level 5 always but another guy say "I put just 2 cuts" for level 5 is good :thumbup:?


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Cuts = coats right? 
People can say what they want to say, theres alot of BSers in the world, and alot of people talk **** all the time. 2 coats is considered a level 3 or less finish. You want to do a real good level 5 finish, I put 3-4 coats on my walls, sanded them, and then do a final skim coat over the entire wall. Sometimes I skim the entire wall twice. Then sand again.


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## marinerito (Oct 28, 2008)

*tks*

ohh tks for you answer sorry for cuts''  sorry

jeje coats :thumbup: you information is really good


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## MudMaster (Nov 19, 2008)

dos teqilas por favor!!

:thumbup:


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

marinerito said:


> Hi is a question because I do 3 coats for level 5 always but another guy say "I put just 2 cuts" for level 5 is good :thumbup:?


when a contractor gets smart enough to throw around terms like 'level 5' i just simply say "hey.....do you want a GOOD job....or not?"


all in all.....what i do (standard) is a level 4 finish. not quite technically so though....let me explain.


after taping, i have all my finishers do two coats on the seams with the box tool....then a third coat by hand, as a touch-up coat.

mandatory, i do 3 coats on the nails with a nail-spotter......and a 4th touch-up coat on any visible imperfections on the nails.

however, smooth wall jobs......requiring a level 5, i do everything mentioned above (with a little more extra care) then roll on a Hamilton prep coat.

that always seems to do the job on commercial projects im running.


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## pedtheshed (Aug 16, 2008)

my god , you blokes across the pond put a lot of mud on the joints by the sound of it


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## amestaper (Sep 3, 2008)

See this link for definitions of level 1 to 5 taping finishes.
http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resources/techtalk/revisiting.aspx

Hope this helps you.


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

my application techniques are close to custom drywalls, but for a cadilac coat for people who are willing to pay for it i take out my mark5 and spray a coat of mud over entire wall surface drys like a orange peal but sands up quik for a true level 5 100% seamless and smooth


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## MudMaster (Nov 19, 2008)

There is a little confusion i find when americans and canadians are refering to diferent levels of finishing. I sometimes dont understand alot of terminology talked about on this board sometime, but its great to read up on...In Toronto, we do a 3 coat system, tapers do not do any spraying or textures. Knockdowns are very rare, and Level 5? Skimming an entire wall is not heard of...residental and commerical has no problems with the 3 coat system and quality is close to 100%.
We are actually have a huge demand for the removal of old outdated and recent stucco, popcorn ceilings...


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

MudMaster said:


> There is a little confusion i find when americans and canadians are refering to diferent levels of finishing. I sometimes dont understand alot of terminology talked about on this board sometime, but its great to read up on...In Toronto, we do a 3 coat system, tapers do not do any spraying or textures. Knockdowns are very rare, and Level 5? Skimming an entire wall is not heard of...residental and commerical has no problems with the 3 coat system and quality is close to 100%.
> We are actually have a huge demand for the removal of old outdated and recent stucco, popcorn ceilings...




whatever you are doing is fine -- and standard practice (god hope so) among any respectable drywall company.

you are basically performing a level 4 finish...

level 5, if im not mistaken, is 3 coats + a skim coat. my method, when we have a job requiring level 5....is not to literally do a skim coat (i dont really get this either), but to roll on Hamilton prep coat....basically painting the walls white. once that dries and everything is one, level surface (the idea at least), ill have my guys go back with lights and do spot touch-ups thruout.

level 5 can be a pain in the ass...but if you do it right, theres a great amount of enjoyment in seeing the final product and how GOOD the walls/ceilings look. just be cautious of long hallways and unforgiving lighting conditions. 3 full coats with the nail-spotter, plus a spot hand touch-up is vital with level 5.

and if you own a drywall company, and need to BID a smooth wall, level 5 finish.....bid fairly high.

bottomline is, 70% of the time...with the process i described above, you can get it done for relatively cheap....and still make maximum profit....meaning, you didnt need to necessarily bid it so high in the first place...

BUUUUT..

the OTHER 30% of the time......your going to get the pickiest, most unreasonable, unpractical homeowner/builder/customer to pick your job apart...the type that will die if a pinhole sized air bubble 7 feet high is not covered -- all you guys know the types im talking about, hahhaa. this of course, turns the job to be very difficult and time consuming -- meaning that seemingly nice initial profit, is gone.....cause you may potentially need every bit of that to finish the job, and make the customer satisfied in the end.

anyways, level 5 is a tricky animal. every job is different, and cannot be treated the same as the last smooth wall job. each job has its own independent lighting conditions, environments, and uses. again, most smooth wall jobs you do will be fine, and run well......but its that small percentage of getting the smooth wall nazi customer from hell that can drain you -- financially as well as emotionally.

i simply never gamble, and bid high (or at least what i think is high for my area).


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

MudMaster said:


> There is a little confusion i find when americans and canadians are refering to diferent levels of finishing. I sometimes dont understand alot of terminology talked about on this board sometime, but its great to read up on...In Toronto, we do a 3 coat system, tapers do not do any spraying or textures. Knockdowns are very rare, and Level 5? Skimming an entire wall is not heard of...residental and commerical has no problems with the 3 coat system and quality is close to 100%.
> We are actually have a huge demand for the removal of old outdated and recent stucco, popcorn ceilings...


Mud Master, Alot of my work is exactly what you do, smooth level 4 finish. Like I mentioned early, 3 coats, and 2 skim coats pulled tight and slick that are rolled on by a laborer- Why 2? When you touch up walls, 1 touch up over a dent sometimes doesn't cut it 100% of the time, a second will make the wall uniformly all white and seamless. I do alot of commerical/retail wall, and when they use bright colors, we always have to skim entire walls.

2 coats is a level 3 - Tape - Bed- and Skim - The famous quotes of so many old school finishers. It does take alot of skills to be able to master this level, and theres times we can achieve it without a 3rd coat, and times we can't. When we do acheive it, meaning achieved because the walls have almost no touch-up after shinning lamps and feeling the walls with your hands.


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## jakester (Feb 6, 2008)

MudMaster said:


> There is a little confusion i find when americans and canadians are refering to diferent levels of finishing. I sometimes dont understand alot of terminology talked about on this board sometime, but its great to read up on...In Toronto, we do a 3 coat system, tapers do not do any spraying or textures. Knockdowns are very rare, and Level 5? Skimming an entire wall is not heard of...residental and commerical has no problems with the 3 coat system and quality is close to 100%.
> We are actually have a huge demand for the removal of old outdated and recent stucco, popcorn ceilings...


Hey MudMaster 
I am also from the Toronto area and I know what you mean, We also tape using a 3 coat system to get to a level 4, but in the past few years all we've been doing is level 5, not by skimming out the whole wall with mud, but with spraying a surfacer / primer ( similar to Magnum level coat) after spraying just a quick sand and the walls are perfect, it truley does eliminate the "flashing" that occurs with taping. 
The cost is minimal and the great thing is no callbacks just touch up if need be after sanding. I think within the next few years it will be a standard it's just a matter of public education. If you want to see how it's done or the results just drop me a line [email protected] 

Thanks
Jake


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## Cyian (Dec 16, 2008)

Good and handy.:thumbsup:


http://www.thomasdw.com/Forms/TDP-TechInfoGARecommendedLevelsMatrixEd.pdf


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## amestaper (Sep 3, 2008)

Cyian said:


> Good and handy.:thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.thomasdw.com/Forms/TDP-TechInfoGARecommendedLevelsMatrixEd.pdf


Thanks for the link, can print this out for future use.


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

you better be a good sprayer for level 5 can easily f-up. let the painter blow tuff hde on if done correctly looks better than a plastered wall


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## Steve (Mar 30, 2009)

brdn_drywall said:


> my application techniques are close to custom drywalls, but for a cadilac coat for people who are willing to pay for it i take out my mark5 and spray a coat of mud over entire wall surface drys like a orange peal but sands up quik for a true level 5 100% seamless and smooth


What's the secret for getting a good smooth, even finish with the sprayer?
One of the contractors on my job tried using their Mark V to spray on a skim coat and it looks like hell. They didn't cut the mud at all, which is what I've heard was the right thing to do. But you could see striping patterns waving across the wall. The tight spray pattern actually looked like a pretty cool orange peel. It looked better when they rolled on the mud and wiped it down. Is there a special tip that works best or is it all in the skill of the guy spraying?


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

there's not much skill involved if you can paint with an airless you can spray mud with a mark v 
1st. coat the mud to a level 4.
2nd. sand the wall as if finishing for paint.
3rd. thin down finish mud to a texture like consistency (2-2.5 liters to a box)
4th. spray an even coat never pausing while spraying with a consistent and generous overlap.
the thing about it is the machine cannot cheat for you ya need a good level 4 finish to work with and sanding has to be done as if you were finishing for paint, don't use an old or worn out tip as you will get heavy lines, i like the finer tips that give a 12" fan and spray slower with a good overlap, if ya have a wider tip move faster with less overlap, also make sure the mud is mixed well and lump free try mixing in one bucket and pouring into a clean one (don't scrape the sides as this mud is thicker and not mixed well) but thinning is the key to success


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

oh ya do not, i repeat do not use tips that are intended for paint, order tips that are intended for this purpose.


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> whatever you are doing is fine -- and standard practice (god hope so) among any respectable drywall company.
> 
> you are basically performing a level 4 finish...
> 
> ...


3 cots with the spotter?? doesnt that leave a thick edge? I do 2" 3" then 5.5.box..


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

check the level coat video!!

http://www.levelcoat.com/


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Level 5 is officially three coats after tape, not four.

If you have no access to a sprayer, hawk and trowel is the next fastest method.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

tapingfool said:


> 3 cots with the spotter?? doesnt that leave a thick edge? I do 2" 3" then 5.5.box..


Do you tape with your keyboard all day? Why are you the only guy here always blabbing about this 5.5" box? It's OKAY to do your third coat by hand.:thumbup:


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

Bevelation said:


> Do you tape with your keyboard all day? Why are you the only guy here always blabbing about this 5.5" box? It's OKAY to do your third coat by hand.:thumbup:


 aaahhhh ya, before I got the 5.5 I did it by hand..and no I don't tape with my keyboard..wiseguy..:furious:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

We previously tried spraying a Level 5 with a Mark V over paint and got ate up by the bubbles/fish eyes. Reverted back to applying with an 18" wide paint roller and pulling with our biggest knives, still sanding the marks out. But this week we got the chance to demo Freeman Speed-Skim. The rep brought a big Titan sprayer and we sprayed over our sanded Level 4 walls...The results were nothing short of spectacular. Didn't even have to sand the finished product, except for maybe three walls that had a bit of paper fuzz or airborne dirt and a couple of runs. And when I say sand, it was just a light buff with the Black Widow freebie. This product delivered a true self leveling Level 5 and at about $30 per 5 gal., was about 25% cheaper than LevelCoat by Magnum.:notworthy:


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## LadyFinisher (Apr 16, 2009)

Darren, did they tell you where to buy it? did a search for it with no luck. Sounds like great stuff.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Made by Freeman in Broken Arrow OK, 800-364-2763. Don't know if their distribution area goes far enough east to serve you. PM me and I'll give rep's name and #.


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