# Wrapping windows



## Ron Franck

Here is the deal: New construction, vinyl windows, 6" walls.
The wife would like to wrap the windows with drywall and apply corner bead, finishing up with appropriate mud, no wood trim. My drywall contractor can do, but recommends against it, citing condensation problems that would lead to deterioration and eventual replacement of the drywall board. He suggests I trim out the interior window opening in wood and either paint or stain.
Question: Is he offering good advice :thumbsup: or avoiding the pain and hassle of doing 14 windows?:whistling2:
What are the pros and cons of finishing out the windows using each method?

Thanks, 
Ron Franck
First time Homebuilder :jester:


----------



## joepro0000

Maybe he thinks your too cheap, and won't pay him what he deserves. If you agree to pay him hourly to do this, then i would say go for it, use green board or moisture resistant drywall if your worried about that. We do 90% windows like that here in Florida.


----------



## Ron Franck

My major concern is moisture. It's hovering at about 6 degrees F right now and I'm hoping that solid vinyl will resist sweating in the cold.
I supppose adequate ventilation is the secret at keeping excess humidity from becoming a problem.
The wife suggested using green board. Great minds must think alike. :yes:
I'll propose it to him again and see what his take on it is. Thanks.

Ron Franck


----------



## akcajun

we wrap our windows here in Alaska with drywall unless requested not to even in the military base. Me personally i rather doing that looks better...When i do mine i use hot mud for first past to strengthen it a little more.


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

yes, like joepro said above, if this is an issue where you live, use green board or Mold Board -- these are roughly the same thing.

I personally think it looks nicer as well. This is not really a huge problem where I live, as a lot of people do this.

And yes, the drywall contractor may simply think that his contract price isn't high enough to justify this -- or of course maybe just lazy...who knows.

Is it one of these 'one-man' type drywall shows? where hes basically going to do all the work himself with hired hands, or does he have a legit business using his own employees, etc?

because if its one of these guys thats doing all the work himself, or at least most of it, like i said, he might just be too lazy.


----------



## silverstilts

Ron Franck said:


> Here is the deal: New construction, vinyl windows, 6" walls.
> The wife would like to wrap the windows with drywall and apply corner bead, finishing up with appropriate mud, no wood trim. My drywall contractor can do, but recommends against it, citing condensation problems that would lead to deterioration and eventual replacement of the drywall board. He suggests I trim out the interior window opening in wood and either paint or stain.
> Question: Is he offering good advice :thumbsup: or avoiding the pain and hassle of doing 14 windows?:whistling2:
> What are the pros and cons of finishing out the windows using each method?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron Franck
> First time Homebuilder :jester:


It again all boils down to if you have an air exchange system which all new homes should, you can control the amount of humidity in your home. If all is up and running correct there should not be any worry. If you have wood six panel doors, hardwood floors you have to make sure that the humidity level is set at a specific level otherwise you will have more than moister problems on the window returns. I have had contractors complain about issues with the homeowners woodwork warping or drying out, only to find out they messed with the settings on the air exchanger either too dry or too humid. It can also swell up the dimension lumber behind the sheetrock and when it starts to dry out cause popped screws cracks in the drywall. It does help to make sure all the woodwork is sealed especially doors on ALL 6 sides even then there can be issues at least the warranty will not be void. Make sure you check the manufactures moister/humidity levels for their products. as far as the finish whether wood or gyp. that's a personal preference, I definitely would not do the sill area though.


----------



## silverstilts

It use to be years ago there were no need for air exchangers, but times have changed homes are built much more tighter trapping air inside the home, unlike years ago products were not as efficient say for such windows, insulation, house wrap(which should let things breath out but not in) . I don't know for sure in all areas but it is code to have one installed around here. To much moister also can contribute to mold problems.


----------



## silverstilts

If your drywall contractor is trying to talk you out of it , it is not really his decision It is your home you should have it the way you want it you are the one that is going to live there and foot the bill. It is not his home!!! He may talk to you about correct methods which may be valid, However if one is going to trim out a window with wood it cost money , likewise it takes time to wrap the window with rock bead and finish especially if you install L-bead against the window frame which you should stopping moisture from coming in direct contact with the gyp bd. I myself add NO LESS than $85.00 per opening just to cover the materials and labor.


----------



## Ron Franck

silverstilts said:


> especially if you install L-bead against the window frame which you should stopping moisture from coming in direct contact with the gyp bd.


Good point about using the L bead. I like the suggestions about using wood to trim out the sill, using green board, using hot mud for added strength and installing an air exchanger. :thumbup:

Thanks everyone for your contributions. Keep them coming! :thumbsup:

Ron Franck


----------



## [email protected]

Silver is right about the air exchanger. But here in the middle midwest we don't use ceiling vapor barrier and thus no air exchanger. Instead it's mostly the conventional furnace, but I highly recommend a whole house humidifier. They're about $400 installed, keep it set at 27% +/-. if the slider or windows are frosting up, back it off a bit. The furnace combustion or electric coils will prevent a high humidity situation. Ask the builder if your windows have a "thermal break". Most currently made will have it. Use your bath fans religously.


----------



## joepro0000

guys rememeber green board is ineffective. It has paper on the back side, and can still cause mold. It has been discontinued in making, but will still be around for years. Try purple board the new replacement, or mold resistant.


----------



## silverstilts

Ron Franck said:


> Good point about using the L bead. I like the suggestions about using wood to trim out the sill, using green board, using hot mud for added strength and installing an air exchanger. :thumbup:
> 
> Thanks everyone for your contributions. Keep them coming! :thumbsup:
> 
> Ron Franck


I wouldn't worry about HOT MUD it's one of my pet peeves if it gets wet it will crumble, Kinda like MR or green board its water or Moister Resistant NOT WATER PROOF ( like a watch that's water resistant you would not hold it under water like a water proof watch) same with M.R. board its not meant to saturate with water it will rot. Many people are misled when it comes to this. I would not even use it behind tile but rather durarock (cement board) designed to withstand moister. There you go use some durarock problem solved not the normal but it would work, taper might hate you some but he will get over it. Some years back we used a cap that was solid vinyl that wrapped the window extension jamb and yet had one side that looked like a bead that we filled , saved a lot of time. Don't recall where I even ordered it but I am sure any large drywall supplier could order this type of trim, perhaps trim-tex makes it. It has been at least 8 years since I have had to use it. We used the bull nose profile then you would just prime and paint. You can use what ever backer behind it you choose and just glue or contact cement it on.


----------



## Ron Franck

silverstilts said:


> I wouldn't worry about HOT MUD it's one of my pet peeves if it gets wet it will crumble, Kinda like MR or green board its water or Moisture Resistant, NOT WATER PROOF


What type of mud should one use in this application?

Ron Franck


----------



## Custom Drywall Svc.

Ron Franck said:


> What type of mud should one use in this application?
> 
> Ron Franck


Use standard drywall mud.

We only use hot mud if absolutely necessary. And for your home's windows, it's not necessary and not recommended.


----------



## Taper Rick

Drywall is fine, just make sure you have a 1/8th to 1/4in gap between the plastic tear away and the window. This will prevent condensation problems. and you will be just fine!


----------



## silverstilts

Taper Rick said:


> Drywall is fine, just make sure you have a 1/8th to 1/4in gap between the plastic tear away and the window. This will prevent condensation problems. and you will be just fine!


 We always keep them tight , even on commercial jobs against aluminum frames never have had any problems. The aluminum transfers more cold than you will ever get from vinyl or wood. Then you can also caulk and paint. Myself haven't ever recalled seeing the bead held out from the window ever, and have seen thousands of windows over the years. Besides that it would not look right aesthetically. Usually if there is any moister build up it is on the glass not on the widow frame, the glass is what transfers the cold thereby causing condensation in a high humidity situation. If you do caulk it is preferable to do it after painting unless you use paintable silicon , if you use regular silicon caulk the paint will not bond. Just my two cents worth. Been there done that


----------



## Taper Rick

In my experience on 100's of commercial buildings in the metro area we hold the tear away 1/8 from the window frame on outside walls. When the bead is held tight in freezing temps condensation can make the mud and rock mushy. In fact alot of jobs have specs on this . So for us its a general rule to hold off 1/8 inch.


----------



## silverstilts

Taper Rick with all due respect 100's of buildings? You may have close to twenty years in the trade but Hundreds of buildings? I myself have worked the twin cities also there could not possibly be anyway you have worked hundreds of buildings unless you perhaps have walked into every job ever done and beaded a window. There hasn't even been that much commercial building going on down there to justify that comment in the last 18 years. I have worked on countless major projects down from the convention center to the V.A hospital to st. johns hospital , children's hospital along with countless business centers and track malls, churches, and just plain high rises (condos, apartments, & office buildings) there and still can not ever remember having the specs call for holding out the l-bead . I have been on jobs where it was requested by the architects, but not the inspector so we used a window shim ( the plastic U shaped ones for spacers) Times must have changed some.


----------



## Ron Franck

Just a quick update on what we went with. I wrapped the windows in regular Type X 5/8 drywall (some leftovers from the ceiling board and some purchased.) Used 5/8 tear away "L" bead tight against the window frames and paper/metal corner beads on the outside corners. Set and finished in all purpose mud.
I cut and installed the board and the finishers set the bead and spread the mud. They let me do one window on my own, a 60x54 unit in the garage. I just copied their methods, but it took me about three times longer to do mine. :wacko: All of the windows look great and, most importantly, the wife is very happy. :yes: We have yet to decide what to use for a sill. I might get creative and wrap a fitted 1x in Formica, we'll see. Thanks for everyone's advice. It helped our decision process a lot. :notworthy::rockon:


----------



## carpentaper

by tear away do you guys mean what we call fast mask up here. the vinyl L bead that you mud and then pull the little flange off. that is my favourite thing to use on windows. it takes a little more time but i think it looks better.


----------



## jackleg

amen to the $85 per opening.... to trim with wood cost would exceed $100, easy!!!! only a fool would be talked into doing them for any less!!


----------



## Ron Franck

carpentaper said:


> by tear away do you guys mean what we call fast mask up here. the vinyl L bead that you mud and then pull the little flange off. that is my favourite thing to use on windows. it takes a little more time but i think it looks better.


It's a Trim-Tex product. They call it Tear-Away.
http://www.trim-tex.com/installation/3010&9010install.htm


----------



## wnybassman

jackleg said:


> amen to the $85 per opening.... to trim with wood cost would exceed $100, easy!!!! only a fool would be talked into doing them for any less!!



I'm a fool. lol We don't do many return windows, but we usually only get our normal $1 a foot cornerbead upgrade. So a 5 x 2 1/2 window would only be $15 for us. Maybe we ought to go up to $2 a foot for windows :whistling2:


----------



## carpentaper

Ron Franck said:


> It's a Trim-Tex product. They call it Tear-Away.
> http://www.trim-tex.com/installation/3010&9010install.htm


 its the same product. great stuff. i just used it to get tight to some old fir columns i put in. it looks super rad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jackleg

wynbassman, if your profession was full time window wrapper, (hang, bead, finish for paint), could you make a good living at $15 per window?? that's how i rationalize pricing. at $15 a window, i would let you do every window in every home i ever build.. i just don't like the wrapped window appearance, too commercial for me.. too many wraps look out of square, and because of moisture, many have peeling paint issues.


----------

