# bavel



## killerjune (Jun 18, 2011)

when i tape with my zook, the guy after me wipe the tape. it's better to take the time to full the bavel for the next day ? or its not neccesery to full the bavel. my second coat is with the box.
thx 

québec taper


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

killerjune said:


> when i tape with my zook, the guy after me wipe the tape. it's better to take the time to full the bavel for the next day ? or its not neccesery to full the bavel. my second coat is with the box.
> thx
> 
> québec taper


To me filling the bevel is only for hand tapers.... They do this so they can run two tighter coats after. If you are boxing it out then I would just wipe it tight and coat it with the box. Just make sure your box settings are good :thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

killerjune said:


> when i tape with my zook, the guy after me wipe the tape. it's better to take the time to full the bavel for the next day ? or its not neccesery to full the bavel. my second coat is with the box.
> thx
> 
> québec taper


Your talking about back wiping ...Not my cup of tea.. There's a thread or two about it here ,,but the search is all screwed up ..Using A/P or H/M It's best not to back wipe.. imo..


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

killerjune said:


> when i tape with my zook, the guy after me wipe the tape. it's better to take the time to full the bavel for the next day ? or its not neccesery to full the bavel. my second coat is with the box.
> thx
> 
> québec taper


In my opinion it is better to fill the bevel when taping. Coats are definitely thinner after and it reduces the chance of shrinkage on your first coat especially if you like to use thinned out mud.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

mudslingr said:


> In my opinion it is better to fill the bevel when taping. Coats are definitely thinner after and it reduces the chance of shrinkage on your first coat especially if you like to use thinned out mud.


Arent you a hand taper/coat by hand? It does make it easier when you hand tape, but if you are boxing it out then you just have to make sure your boxes are adjusted properly. If I know I will be boxing the only things I focus on when taping is wiping tight and spotting the screws in the joint.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I do both but prefer trowel. Either way it still helps to fill the bevel just in case. Can't hurt. And the fact that you can get a longer run out of your box when the bevel is filled.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

thefinisher said:


> Arent you a hand taper/coat by hand? It does make it easier when you hand tape, but if you are boxing it out then you just have to make sure your boxes are adjusted properly. If I know I will be boxing the only things I focus on when taping is wiping tight and spotting the screws in the joint.


You spot the screws in the joint?!?


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

mudslingr said:


> In my opinion it is better to fill the bevel when taping. Coats are definitely thinner after and it reduces the chance of shrinkage on your first coat especially if you like to use thinned out mud.


 I fully agree leaving a nice wipe down job on the flats with the bevels somewhat filled. Even running the boxes if you have them voids filled when doing the tape coat doing the second coat with the boxes is less filling up and leaves a much better finish I dont care how your box is set . You cant tell me just lightly wiping the tape and not filling the void your second coat isnt going to look more crappier ,(the heavier the fill more chances for fish eyes and flames) and screw the tracing behind a box) then on third coat just box tight. A bazooka leaves plenty of mud so using an 8" wipe down knife it is no extra work.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> In my opinion it is better to fill the bevel when taping. Coats are definitely thinner after and it reduces the chance of shrinkage on your first coat especially if you like to use thinned out mud.


Wow really

Odd, just had this conversation today at work.

The transplanted American now Canadian/new machine taper filled all his bevells by hand, and I was like why ???????

To start, why back fill/wipe a flat tape on the install, it just swells the tape and takes you longer to install them. Drywall is designed to suck moisture from one side of the tape, well the other side air drys. When installing tape, it's actually one of the few times you are wanting something to shrink back. Coating over it right away actually makes the tape expand/float out more.

Then to do what the taper did today next door, he coated over the flat tight after it was dry, b/c he said his box will go farther. So I asked if he could coat faster than a machine:blink:

Plus our muds are better these days, compared to the days of old. They shrink less, and the bevell on the drywall is better( should say on some drywall:whistling2.

I remember guys use to go , 7,10,12 with the boxes, but as I stated, the mud sucked along with the bevell back in the day. Now you can get away with a 2 coat type of system like 8 then 12,,,,10 then 12,,,,8 then 10 etc... Materials are better

Bottom line, slap the tape to the wall, let it dry. Then let the machines do the rest:thumbup:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Wow really
> 
> Odd, just had this conversation today at work.
> 
> ...


I find that the taping mud shrinks just enough. Hot mud is a different story. Usually after my mud dries I'll have a 1/16th to an 1/8th fill. If you back fill properly it really does help. But either way will do the trick. Just depends on how much much you want to schlep around.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> In my opinion it is better to fill the bevel when taping. Coats are definitely thinner after and it reduces the chance of shrinkage on your first coat especially if you like to use thinned out mud.


Atta boy sirslings mud alot then you are garnasheed a Posi.blend

You da man Sirslings mud alot, cept for the 5 year  coment

I wipe tight and the mud has just anough to add t coats, I do not run back and load, spensive shacks get 7 10 12


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> cept for the 5 year  coment



Refresh my memory please.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> I find that the taping mud shrinks just enough. Hot mud is a different story. Usually after my mud dries I'll have a 1/16th to an 1/8th fill. If you back fill properly it really does help. But either way will do the trick. Just depends on how much much you want to schlep around.


Well, could debate about shrinkage, but that's just one part of it.

Bottom line is your adding a step, a hand coating step at that (slow).

I remember a taper tried selling me and 2bjr on it a long time ago (back wiping), so we tried it.

Found at minimum it takes twice as long to wipe out a tape, I would say 3x longer. As soon as your tape is wiped out flat, you should be done, but as soon as you wipe back over it,,,,,,,, well,,,,, your going back over it again.

Then you had to give it a quick buzz with a sander before you boxed, so add another step.

Then we found when we coated with the box, the flat tapes were too close to the top(being exposed). Because they didn't shrink back.

Time saved on boxing, maybe 10 minutes,,,,, big deal,,,,, time saved when wiping tape, none, took twice as long.

Plus Captain sheetrock thought back wiping was pointless too, so he would be on team 2buck right now so


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Refresh my memory please.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well, could debate about shrinkage, but that's just one part of it.
> 
> Bottom line is your adding a step, a hand coating step at that (slow).
> 
> ...


Personally I couldn't give a flying fart what the Captain says but I enjoy and respect his posts very much as I do with everyone else.

And what, it takes about 10 seconds to back fill about 10' of tape ? I've never put on a 10' piece of tape in 3 seconds. Three extra minutes in a 10'x10' room won't kill me.

Still trying to figure out why your taping mud is swelling. I'm stumped.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

mudslingr said:


> Personally I couldn't give a flying fart what the Captain says but I enjoy and respect his posts very much as I do with everyone else.
> 
> And what, it takes about 10 seconds to back fill about 10' of tape ? I've never put on a 10' piece of tape in 3 seconds. Three extra minutes in a 10'x10' room won't kill me.
> 
> Still trying to figure out why your taping mud is swelling. I'm stumped.


3 extra minutes in a 10'x10' room is longer than what it took me to tape it in the first place.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> 3 extra minutes in a 10'x10' room is longer than what it took me to tape it in the first place.


:thumbup:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


>



Got it now ! I can remember sh1t from 35 years ago but not necessarily 10 minutes ago. :lol:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Still trying to figure out why your taping mud is swelling. I'm stumped.


Because if you back wipe the tape, it becomes wet on both sides (drywall side, Air side), So the paper tape ends up grabbing most of the moister, so it swells as it drys.

If you wipe the tape clean of excess mud. Then your leaving mud to the drywall side to dry, but paper to the air side to dry. The air side will dry faster, drywall side slower, so the tape shrinks inwards.

It's not the action of the mud, it's what paper does when you get it wet.

Your talking to a world champion spit ball maker here, from his public school days:whistling2::jester:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

If you are a 1 man show then backwiping is well worth the time. If you are wiping behind a bazooka or banjo then chances are you dont have time to do it ( 2 man or more). Usually I will have some time while wiping( behind banjo) to take a few extra pounds of mud out of the pan and do some bevel filling or loading the sides of butts or headers to help flatten them out although it is not needed.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Your talking to a world champion spit ball maker here, from his public school days:whistling2::jester:


Oh yeah !? How about elastics and paper clips ? I bet I'd kick your ass in a chestnut match !


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## Pytlik (Jan 14, 2013)

what the **** is back wipe ?


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Pytlik said:


> what the **** is back wipe ?


It involves wiping from the back to front! Not very sanitary and never a good idea!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Pytlik said:


> what the **** is back wipe ?


When you wipe a flat tape down, you go BACK over it right away, filling in the bevell with mud...... Maybe you could call it back/filling or coating. But your filling when wiping/installing tapes, so hence the term,,,,back wiping:yes:


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Like I said it is more for hand finishers and is definitley worth it if you are hand finishing. If you are boxing then there is zero need for it. The bevel is not very deep guys... no need to build it up more than is needed. I feel that is easier to set your 10" box on one setting lower to allow more mud than it is to spend the extra time to fill in the bevel by hand when taping... Just my opinion though.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Mountain Man said:


> You spot the screws in the joint?!?


Contrary to popular belief... all screws need 3 coats on them! If I'm taping and the screws dont get filled when wiping I will go back and spot them to make sure they get first coated.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Contrary to popular belief... all screws need 3 coats on them! If I'm taping and the screws dont get filled when wiping I will go back and spot them to make sure they get first coated.



That's another good reason for back filling. But my screws are usually buried under the tape anyway. And like silverstilts said, no tracing involved. Unless your box ran out of mud on a joint.


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

I like to backfill over my tape also. the only acception is when its been rocked with certainteed.the sh!t profile of the bevel leaves to much mud behind the center of the tape and won't always shrink back enough.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

You can get a goldblatt mud diver, Fit it between the pump and gooseneck, Tape with a zook, Wipedown, have a box out, Fill that off the same pump using the mud diver (Which is a valve that allows mud to flow from the gooseneck, or turn the lever and then it shuts off the gooseneck and diverts it to a box filler) Use fibafuse for taping then you box over your wiped tape as you go.

Yeah it works well but thats to much airdry mud for me, Now i prefill hell out of everything with 90, Homax tape fuse 90 again, Then i can box over it sameday if i want to leaving a nice full seam that has mimimal shrinkage, Its a really solid seam, Let that dry up nice then the next boxed coats are not very thick at all and dry very fast, Now i 7 then 12 box, This leaves a fantastic edge for sanding, No 10 box ridge that can swell and show after painting and it seems to hugley reduce and risk of crowning/edging.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

b said:


> I like to backfill over my tape also. the only acception is when its been rocked with certainteed.the sh!t profile of the bevel leaves to much mud behind the center of the tape and won't always shrink back enough.


really

do you use glue mud


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

mudslingr said:


> That's another good reason for back filling. But my screws are usually buried under the tape anyway. And like silverstilts said, no tracing involved. Unless your box ran out of mud on a joint.


 Don't miss understand what I am getting at I don't coat as I go all I am saying is leave the voids full when wiping out. The bazooka leaves plenty of mud to do this. A nice wipedown job with the voids filled will speed up the next step.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I understood what you were saying.:yes: Main point is to at least have the voids filled. Keeps shrinkage even and minimal.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

mudslingr said:


> That's another good reason for back filling. But my screws are usually buried under the tape anyway. And like silverstilts said, no tracing involved. Unless your box ran out of mud on a joint.


I get what you are saying, but there still isn't a huge need for back filling. I just taped out my brothers house friday afternoon with a banjo and didn't backfill. Only thing I did was spot the screws that didn't get caught while wiping. I bedded the house saturday and went around and knife checked everything yesterday afternoon after the joints were dry. All the seams were perfectly flat with having my box on the number 3 setting. Only thing needed will be a tight skim.

Now the only problems I had was with the dang high shoulders on the stretch board . Gotta go around and bust all those out when I skim.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> I get what you are saying, but there still isn't a huge need for back filling. I just taped out my brothers house friday afternoon with a banjo and didn't backfill. Only thing I did was spot the screws that didn't get caught while wiping. I bedded the house saturday and went around and knife checked everything yesterday afternoon after the joints were dry. All the seams were perfectly flat with having my box on the number 3 setting. Only thing needed will be a tight skim.
> 
> Now the only problems I had was with the dang high shoulders on the stretch board . Gotta go around and bust all those out when I skim.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I fill as I wipe, just enough to have no spots:yes:[/QUOTE]

Don't you go 7,10, and 12 with your boxes???????

And you backwipe too:blink:


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## killerjune (Jun 18, 2011)

7,10 and 12 , 3 pass when is good ?

thx


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## TDI Scott (Feb 26, 2011)

Doesn't it take longer to not backfill? It is quicker for me to turn the excess mud back on the wall and keep wiping with an 8 than to return the excess mud back into my pan every couple feet with a 6. Don't need perfection inside the bevel but for the most part it fills. Less trips back to empty my pan and less crinkles.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Me thinks you guys back filling have too much time on your hands :whistling2:

I guess it's ok if you're running a gun solo or something, but if you have people wiping behind and you've got a good pace tapes would start drying out a bit


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

TDI Scott said:


> Doesn't it take longer to not backfill? It is quicker for me to turn the excess mud back on the wall and keep wiping with an 8 than to return the excess mud back into my pan every couple feet with a 6. Don't need perfection inside the bevel but for the most part it fills. Less trips back to empty my pan and less crinkles.


To coat a pan full of mud onto a wall, or empty a pan full of mud into a bucket,,,,,, I wonder which one is faster


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> To coat a pan full of mud onto a wall, or empty a pan full of mud into a bucket,,,,,, I wonder which one is faster


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFJ20UTuVQQ&feature=youtu.be


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I fill as I wipe, just enough to have no spots:yes:


Don't you go 7,10, and 12 with your boxes???????

And you backwipe too:blink:[/QUOTE]

I take out bev lines as I wipe,


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