# Using glue in your mud....



## SlimPickins

While it's not always necessary, I'm here to testify to the effectiveness of using glue in your mud.......especially hot mud. I officially mixed my stickiest batch of hot mud today...it was so sticky, that when it had dried on my hands I could not get it off with a wet sponge. I had to scrape it with my fingernails and then use a scotch-brite green pad to get it off. It stuck to glossy paint(and I mean full gloss, in a 100 year old bathroom) like nobody's business. 

I am so sold on this technique. If you're on the fence about this methodology, don't be......it's insane how well it bonds.

The only problem is that you have to wait for it to fully dry before it achieves maximum strength. 30 minutes after the mud kicked, the areas over the paint were still scraping off....(but the part that had dried earlier had to be chiseled off.) 

I'm not even going to consider not using glue in hot mud on renovations anymore....it's a done deal.

Carry on then.


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## DrywallerDustin

SlimPickins said:


> While it's not always necessary, I'm here to testify to the effectiveness of using glue in your mud.......especially hot mud. I officially mixed my stickiest batch of hot mud today...it was so sticky, that when it had dried on my hands I could not get it off with a wet sponge. I had to scrape it with my fingernails and then use a scotch-brite green pad to get it off. It stuck to glossy paint(and I mean full gloss, in a 100 year old bathroom) like nobody's business.
> 
> I am so sold on this technique. If you're on the fence about this methodology, don't be......it's insane how well it bonds.
> 
> The only problem is that you have to wait for it to fully dry before it achieves maximum strength. 30 minutes after the mud kicked, the areas over the paint were still scraping off....(but the part that had dried earlier had to be chiseled off.)
> 
> I'm not even going to consider not using glue in hot mud on renovations anymore....it's a done deal.
> 
> Carry on then.


What kind of glue is it that you're using? 
just using it for taping and first coat or all coats?
how does it affect sanding?


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## Mudshark

Slim, I won't comment on the hot mud cause I don't use it all that much but for the air drying type of mud I have to wonder how much glue and at what cost. Where I am at we use taping mud with the glue already in it. Sounds like it might not be available to everyone, but adding glue must add to the cost of your mud. How big is that cost??? Seems it is easier to just use the regular taping mud than try to make your own???


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## harvv

Mudshark said:


> Slim, I won't comment on the hot mud cause I don't use it all that much but for the air drying type of mud I have to wonder how much glue and at what cost. Where I am at we use taping mud with the glue already in it. Sounds like it might not be available to everyone, but adding glue must add to the cost of your mud. How big is that cost??? Seems it is easier to just use the regular taping mud than try to make your own???


Yeah that would definitely make the most sense. But like you say ive never seen anything even related to taping mud around here. (NC)


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## Mudshark

harvv said:


> Yeah that would definitely make the most sense. But like you say ive never seen anything even related to taping mud around here. (NC)


All the major mud brands make it. (at least out here) I would just be telling your supplier to get with the program and start stocking it.


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## SlimPickins

DrywallerDustin said:


> What kind of glue is it that you're using?
> just using it for taping and first coat or all coats?
> how does it affect sanding?


I'm using SuperBond, which is made by StraightFlex. I only use it for certain things, and generally only in hot mud (although I'll throw it in air-dry muds when I want bomber application).

I use it over paint, when I'm worried about adhesion, I use it in my hot mud prefill, I _always _use it when hot mudding over glass tape, and I like to use it when hot mudding beads too. All other coats are just decoration, so I skip the glue. Things that I really don't want to fall off get glue. It makes mud harder, but hot mud is already pretty hard so I don't notice all that much difference in sanding.



Mudshark said:


> Slim, I won't comment on the hot mud cause I don't use it all that much but for the air drying type of mud I have to wonder how much glue and at what cost. Where I am at we use taping mud with the glue already in it. Sounds like it might not be available to everyone, but adding glue must add to the cost of your mud. How big is that cost??? Seems it is easier to just use the regular taping mud than try to make your own???


I most times won't use it in air-dry muds, and I agree, taping mud works just fine for most applications (I'll add some glue when using FibaFuse, or when installing paper-faced or vinyl beads). I do a lot of small jobs where hot mud is a key element in fast turn-around (bathrooms, kitchens, etc)....jobs where two trips is all I want to make, and it's much better to put in one full day and then a partial rather than make 4-5 trips. Hot mud generally sucks for adhesion, and I've found that glue makes it killer strong.

Hanging out with a few other mud tradesmen (concrete and tile guys) I'm learning that all of them add latex additives to their mixes....and I'm also finding a sh!tpile of products that are hybrids, from acrylic stuccos to portland based thin concrete coats for floors (that can go right over plywood). All of these products are incredibly strong, so it only makes sense to try and apply these principles to what we're doing out here in the drywall trenches

Edit: And as for cost, it's about $7.50 a bottle (Mud-Max is much cheaper) for the product I use, but it's the only one readily available. It'll do a bag of hot mud, so on the small jobs it's only $15.00, which I pass on to the customer. Probably not cost effective on production work, unless you find a way to shave time off your process by using it.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudshark said:


> Slim, I won't comment on the hot mud cause I don't use it all that much but for the air drying type of mud I have to wonder how much glue and at what cost. Where I am at we use taping mud with the glue already in it. Sounds like it might not be available to everyone, but adding glue must add to the cost of your mud. How big is that cost??? Seems it is easier to just use the regular taping mud than try to make your own???


I can give a few reasons why:whistling2:

A lot of guys are subs (like me), you get what the company supplies to you, and most go with a all purpose mud (it's in the name). I personally can get any material I order (they love me), but I find the DWC constantly changes their mind about which house they send you to. So more easy not to rock the boat by being a fussy buck. Main place I add glue is for vinyl bead, well the other tapers prefer the spray glue, which I hate. The DWC will pay me for the glue I buy, even said they would give me mud max (again b/c they love me) but my stupid supply house guy keeps forgetting to order some in....

Actual taping mud is about 20 pds more heavier than ap mud. So if you run a zook, makes a difference with the weight of the zook. that extra weight adds up by the end of the day,,,, so if you add glue to the AP mud, then your using lighter mud........ then what do you use that left over taping mud on?????

Then if you like the builders your working for (the ones that buy you coffee), you can pan mix some mud with glue for special areas, say like no-coat on your vaults.

Then not that I have tried this yet, but Joe from trim tex said adding glue to topping mud will make it shrink less, and leave less poc marks.

And if it was my own house, I would sorta do what slim is doing. I would pre-fill with half and half mix of hotmud and compound mud, mixed with glue:yes:


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## Mudshark

2buckcanuck said:


> Actual taping mud is about 20 pds more heavier than ap mud. So if you run a zook, makes a difference with the weight of the zook. that extra weight adds up by the end of the day,,,, so if you add glue to the AP mud, then your using lighter mud........ then what do you use that left over taping mud on?????
> 
> Then not that I have tried this yet, but Joe from trim tex said adding glue to topping mud will make it shrink less, and leave less poc marks.


Sometimes I use up what taping mud is left by adding topping mud and using it for the first run on the 10" box. Saves hauling it to the next site.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudshark said:


> Sometimes I use up what taping mud is left by adding topping mud and using it for the first run on the 10" box. Saves hauling it to the next site.


I knew I shouldn't of added that comment in at the last minute

"then what do you use that left over taping mud on"


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## cazna

All this glue adding amases me, We dont need to here, All our muds stick, Very well, Hotmud, Airdry all purpose, The lot.

One of them that has the highest amount of glue for skimcoating wont layer though.

Say you have taped out a house, Go around and check things and you may have a scratch or dent or something you have missed on a seam, So you get some more of this mud with high glue content and put some on........Well..........Then you sand and WTH, That patch you put on wont sand/blend in, The sandpaper favours the mud around the edge of the patch and leaves the patch behind, Or try doing corners bigger head then smaller, That mud edge wont blend in or onion skin layering when sanding boxing, Or do a seam, then finish a bead accross it, try and sand......you got an edge ridge if you get my drift.

Its all just for taping isnt it, Just taping :yes: No top coats :blink:


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## chris

We will add glue to pre fils and tape coats. We also use on 1rst coat of beads. We dont use on finish coats or texture,, just like we dont use hotmud for finish .We are in the middle of a gnarly remod, at an old hospital, wallpaper tear outs, wall tearouts, door relocating, tons of zip strip, electrical patches, etc., and new wall construction. All these items will have glue in the mix,,,, not in the finish. Out taping mud is actually lighter than our ap ( lite). I really like the mud we use so dont want to change. If adding a lil glue insures an even better job then Im using it. It also smells GEERRRREEAAT:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins

cazna said:


> All this glue adding amases me, We dont need to here, All our muds stick, Very well, Hotmud, Airdry all purpose, The lot.
> 
> One of them that has the highest amount of glue for skimcoating wont layer though.
> 
> Say you have taped out a house, Go around and check things and you may have a scratch or dent or something you have missed on a seam, So you get some more of this mud with high glue content and put some on........Well..........Then you sand and WTH, That patch you put on wont sand/blend in, The sandpaper favours the mud around the edge of the patch and leaves the patch behind, Or try doing corners bigger head then smaller, That mud edge wont blend in or onion skin layering when sanding boxing, Or do a seam, then finish a bead accross it, try and sand......you got an edge ridge if you get my drift.
> 
> Its all just for taping isnt it, Just taping :yes: No top coats :blink:


Absolutely....no glue in finish coats.


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## Checkers

I'm with Caz on this one. I have honestly never had a problem with one of my tape jobs, ever, in eight years. It's like adding soap to your mud to help with pinholes. If you're getting pinholes, you're doing something wrong.


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## Mudstar

cazna said:


> All this glue adding amases me, We dont need to here, All our muds stick, Very well, Hotmud, Airdry all purpose, The lot.
> 
> One of them that has the highest amount of glue for skimcoating wont layer though.
> 
> Say you have taped out a house, Go around and check things and you may have a scratch or dent or something you have missed on a seam, So you get some more of this mud with high glue content and put some on........Well..........Then you sand and WTH, That patch you put on wont sand/blend in, The sandpaper favours the mud around the edge of the patch and leaves the patch behind, Or try doing corners bigger head then smaller, That mud edge wont blend in or onion skin layering when sanding boxing, Or do a seam, then finish a bead accross it, try and sand......you got an edge ridge if you get my drift.
> 
> Its all just for taping isnt it, Just taping :yes: No top coats :blink:



great point about sanding.. I noticed that using different muds together does the same thing when sanding it never sands out right. For glue in your mud is just a waste of time.


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## Mudstar

Checkers said:


> I'm with Caz on this one. I have honestly never had a problem with one of my tape jobs, ever, in eight years. It's like adding soap to your mud to help with pinholes. If you're getting pinholes, you're doing something wrong.


Anyone that puts soap in mud must hate it when it comes to sanding out.


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## chris

Mudstar said:


> great point about sanding.. I noticed that using different muds together does the same thing when sanding it never sands out right. For glue in your mud is just a waste of time.


 Some people also are professional enough to not have to sand there first coat off,,, I mean you did put it on there , why you sanding it off:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> All this glue adding amases me, We dont need to here, All our muds stick, Very well, Hotmud, Airdry all purpose, The lot.
> 
> One of them that has the highest amount of glue for skimcoating wont layer though.
> 
> Say you have taped out a house, Go around and check things and you may have a scratch or dent or something you have missed on a seam, So you get some more of this mud with high glue content and put some on........Well..........Then you sand and WTH, That patch you put on wont sand/blend in, The sandpaper favours the mud around the edge of the patch and leaves the patch behind, Or try doing corners bigger head then smaller, That mud edge wont blend in or onion skin layering when sanding boxing, Or do a seam, then finish a bead accross it, try and sand......you got an edge ridge if you get my drift.
> 
> Its all just for taping isnt it, Just taping :yes: No top coats :blink:


Holy chit Cazna, the world is ending, Mudstar agrees with you about something:blink:

Yes , glue just for taping or installing vinyl/paper bead, glue will affect sanding properties in the mud, makes it harder to sand.

Joe from Trim tex was saying to add mud max to mud for coating,,, I'm not speaking for Joe, just remember reading it on here, think he was talking a certain type of mud though,,,, think topping mud??????


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## Mudstar

chris said:


> Some people also are professional enough to not have to sand there first coat off,,, I mean you did put it on there , why you sanding it off:blink:


Why would you want to use soap on the first coat anyways pin holes or pock marks don't matter at this stage:blink:


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## SlimPickins

Checkers said:


> I'm with Caz on this one. I have honestly never had a problem with one of my tape jobs, ever, in eight years. It's like adding soap to your mud to help with pinholes. If you're getting pinholes, you're doing something wrong.


Cazna is using a different breed of set mud down there, ours doesn't have the same adhesion. I think it was 2Buck that made a post quite a while back about set mud that air dries before it can kick......it falls off. You can see this is true if you throw a coat of hot mud on without adhesive in it, and the edges where you've feathered will delaminate...especially with the added moisture of a skim coat.

I'm not talking about adding glue to all mud, just hot mud....adding it to anything else is just insurance, extra stickability<----(real word, as of......NOW)

The great thing is that I don't have to be concerned if anyone thinks it's a waste of time (Mudstar:tt2, because my experience shows that it's not. Most especially when coating over paint:thumbsup:


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Holy chit Cazna, the world is ending, Mudstar agrees with you about something:blink:


 
I KNOW :blink: Omg, Holy sh!t alright, I fell off my chair........Look.......I even gave him a thanks :yes:


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## chris

Mudstar said:


> Why would you want to use soap on the first coat anyways pin holes or pock marks don't matter at this stage:blink:


 Im talking about using glue in my mud, my work is so clean I dont need soap:thumbsup:


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## jimmyedword

Quick setting drywall mud is good for little patch tasks where you do not want to hang on 24 hours before applying a second coat.


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## moore

jimmyedword said:


> Quick setting drywall mud is good for little patch tasks where you do not want to hang on 24 hours before applying a second coat.


 REALLY!!! I'll have to give that stuff a try one day!:thumbup:


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## Bazooka-Joe

cazna said:


> All this glue adding amases me, We dont need to here, All our muds stick, Very well, Hotmud, Airdry all purpose, The lot.
> 
> One of them that has the highest amount of glue for skimcoating wont layer though.
> 
> Say you have taped out a house, Go around and check things and you may have a scratch or dent or something you have missed on a seam, So you get some more of this mud with high glue content and put some on........Well..........Then you sand and WTH, That patch you put on wont sand/blend in, The sandpaper favours the mud around the edge of the patch and leaves the patch behind, Or try doing corners bigger head then smaller, That mud edge wont blend in or onion skin layering when sanding boxing, Or do a seam, then finish a bead accross it, try and sand......you got an edge ridge if you get my drift.
> 
> Its all just for taping isnt it, Just taping :yes: No top coats :blink:


key word CazMcman Tape (TAPE HAS GLUE) Please refer to American Inventors of drywall Tape

you are right on sanding and alot of guys still dunno how to apply coats, coats must cover the last coat as well as nails have to completely cover last nail coat, the coats are wet and absorb the glue and dissipates it for easier sanding, Please attend Bazooka Joès Drywall College for a 5000 dollar coarse and you will be a supertapemacdaddy in no time


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## moore

Bazooka-Joe said:


> key word CazMcman Tape (TAPE HAS GLUE) Please refer to American Inventors of drywall Tape
> 
> you are right on sanding and alot of guys still dunno how to apply coats, coats must cover the last coat as well as nails have to completely cover last nail coat, the coats are wet and absorb the glue and dissipates it for easier sanding, Please attend Bazooka Joès Drywall College for a 5000 dollar coarse and you will be a supertapemacdaddy in no time


 Your still spotting egg holes?


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## Bazooka-Joe

moore said:


> Your still spotting egg holes?


uh-k Moe Easter is over :blink:


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## moore

Bazooka-Joe said:


> uh-k Moe Easter is over :blink:


'' you are right on sanding and alot of guys still dunno how to apply coats, coats must cover the last coat as well as nails have to completely cover last nail coat'' 



Are you still spotting egg holes? :blink:


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## Bazooka-Joe

moore said:


> '' you are right on sanding and alot of guys still dunno how to apply coats, coats must cover the last coat as well as nails have to completely cover last nail coat''
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still spotting egg holes? :blink:


Moe my nail spots are the smallest compared to others, i was taught that way, go eat a burrito or something Taco-man


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## Square Foot

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Moe my nail spots are the smallest compared to others, i as taught that way, go eat a burrito or something Taco-man


Agreed on spotting. Don't like to stripe walls at all, or any ceilings with excessive light cast. It's just a small dimple, that IMO, should be kept small and tight ( mounding not necessary ) to the surface as possible.

Please explain " I as taught that way" ???


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## SlimPickins

Square Foot said:


> Agreed on spotting. Don't like to stripe walls at all, or any ceilings with excessive light cast. It's just a small dimple, that IMO, should be kept small and tight ( mounding not necessary ) to the surface as possible.
> 
> Please explain " I as taught that way" ???


I think he meant "Hola, soy un hombre de yeso que aprendió a hacer la drywalling con pequeños agujeros minúsculos, porque yo uso un pequeño martillo señor, y me toca las paredes muy suavemente .... mucho que tengo sexo con los pollos diminutas"


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## SlimPickins

SlimPickins said:


> I think he meant "Hola, soy un hombre de yeso que aprendió a hacer la drywalling con pequeños agujeros minúsculos, porque yo uso un pequeño martillo señor, y me toca las paredes muy suavemente .... mucho que tengo sexo con los pollos diminutas"


Allow me to translate:

"Hello, I am a man who learned to plaster the drywalling with tiny little holes, because I use a small hammer sir, and I very gently touches the walls .... much I have sex with tiny chickens"


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudstar said:


> For glue in your mud is just a waste of time.


Next time you mix up your bazooka mud, read the manufacturers recommendations on how much water is recommended. then let us know if you exceeded their amount:whistling2:


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## Mudstar

2buckcanuck said:


> Next time you mix up your bazooka mud, read the manufacturers recommendations on how much water is recommended. then let us know if you exceeded their amount:whistling2:


I use proroc taping and add less water then you judging by your video's. My taper stays relatively clean as I add enough water to make the tapes slick and that's, it not dripping. You can't pull my tapes off the wall the next day with out taking board with it JS. I run out a couple rooms then wipe. I keep the windows closed and don't use heat when taping.


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## mld

Mudstar said:


> I use proroc taping and add less water then you judging by your video's. My taper stays relatively clean as I add enough water to make the tapes slick and that's, it not dripping. You can't pull my tapes off the wall the next day with out taking board with it JS. I run out a couple rooms then wipe. I keep the windows closed and don't use heat when taping.


Do you ever get mud or sanding dust on your halo:innocent:!????

LOL


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## moore

mld said:


> Do you ever get mud or sanding dust on your halo:innocent:!????
> 
> LOL


 I enjoy mudstars post..:whistling2:.Just wish he would share more.


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## Mudstar

mld said:


> Do you ever get mud or sanding dust on your halo:innocent:!????
> 
> LOL



I wear a hat the hardened type when come and leave the site. :yes:


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## Pattycakez_tapez

When in doubt add durabond 90 to your redimix. Gets the grab your need plus added strength. Be sure to sand with 80-100 grit to open up the surface before top coating. If your top coat is still being stubborn switch to a proper glue mud. Here in eastern canada it's cgc in a green box. Find your equal product my understanding is synco is used down in the states. Please correct me.


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