# Deduction,cutting from the opposite end.



## P.A. ROCKER

Does anyone here take their measurement, and instead of pulling your tape and marking the sheet, you deduct the difference from the opposite end of the sheet.
Without an calculator, of course.


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## Aussiecontractor

All ways 


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## keke

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Does anyone here take their measurement, and instead of pulling your tape and marking the sheet, you deduct the difference from the opposite end of the sheet.
> Without an calculator, of course.


I won't recommend this method for trim work ......for drywall who cares the finisher will fix it


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## Aussiecontractor

Yer not for tight fix...over here homes here are mostly ceilings only with cornice so you can afford a few mm 


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## MrWillys

We call it back reading and yes it was the way I was taught. The guy taking the measurement sees 129" on his tape and tells the cutter to take off 15" from the 12' sheet.


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## P.A. ROCKER

keke said:


> I won't recommend this method for trim work ......for drywall who cares the finisher will fix it


I wasn't referring to trim. I apologize if I was unclear. I was referring to a sheet of drywall. On a tight fit sheet I usually don't measure back.


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## Mudstar

Same way here as :stupid: we call out measured 130 3/4 length as, 12 less 13 quarter In short measured 105 1/4 as 10 14 over and measured 73 1/2 as 8 less 22 1/2 we say it that way and write it that way not to confuse which sheet to cut from. But when it measures less then 72" its gets a little different. 12 split 10 split or 8 split. Measured 56" is 10 split less 4, 63" is 12 split less 9. Bulkhead are rips, rip 10 at 14 or rip half for closet sides or walls less then 48" rip less in some cases.

:thumbsup:

Don't screw top plate or the angles ether or your fired


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## P.A. ROCKER

I know there's so many methods out there.
We call numbers in inches and fractions, the cut guy does as he chooses.
Personally, when I measure back I think in feet, inches and fractions, I find it easier for some reason. I already know all my foot measurements so it really comes down to inch and fractions.


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## Aussiecontractor

Crazy, when you guys speak feet inches I get so lost.


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## P.A. ROCKER

Aussiecontractor said:


> Crazy, when you guys speak feet inches I get so lost.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That's funny, I don't get lost in the metric system and I almost never use it.


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## moore

Aussiecontractor said:


> Crazy, when you guys speak feet inches I get so lost.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Now you know how I feel!!


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## Mudstar




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## keke

moore said:


> Now you know how I feel!!


 I didn't expect this from someone from that side of the world
more explanation needed please


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## Aussiecontractor

P.A. ROCKER said:


> That's funny, I don't get lost in the metric system and I almost never use it.



Yer that's cause metric system is easy 


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## Mudstar

so you guys on the far side of the world use mm or cm?


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## MrWillys

My Tequila comes in 750 milliliters?


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## gazman

Mudstar said:


> so you guys on the far side of the world use mm or cm?


Meters and mm. If say a length is 3m 10cm and 40mm, we would call 3140, pronounced thirty one forty. To me the metric system makes sense because it is based on units of 10. Easy to work both forward and back :thumbsup:.


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## gazman

MrWillys said:


> My Tequila comes in 750 milliliters?


Our grog used to, but they dropped it back to 700ml a few years ago, funny how the price didn't go down :whistling2:.


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## MrWillys

gazman said:


> Meters and mm. If say a length is 3m 10cm and 40mm, we would call 3140, pronounced thirty one forty. To me the metric system makes sense because it is based on units of 10. Easy to work both forward and back :thumbsup:.


I understand the simplicity and my programming is metric and Celsius. They tried mandating metric here on Federal construction projects but to many mistakes were being made so they stopped. I even taught a chapter on metric in our math class as a brief introduction. 

Have you ever seen the movie Idiocracy?


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## P.A. ROCKER

gazman said:


> Our grog used to, but they dropped it back to 700ml a few years ago, funny how the price didn't go down :whistling2:.


A lot of our half gallons went to 59 ounces :blink:and price didn't go down either.


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## gazman

MrWillys said:


> Have you ever seen the movie Idiocracy?


No , never heard of it.


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## MrWillys

gazman said:


> No , never heard of it.


Here's the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk


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## P.A. ROCKER

gazman said:


> Meters and mm. If say a length is 3m 10cm and 40mm, we would call 3140, pronounced thirty one forty. To me the metric system makes sense because it is based on units of 10. Easy to work both forward and back :thumbsup:.


So, basically you give measurements in millimeters? 
I think most in the Imperial U.S. give numbers in inches and fractions of an inch for basic carpentry when cutting materials. 
Layout is usually done in feet, inches and fractions. Because that's how plans are drawn.
I remember when I was in grammar school the teachers said the country would be adopting the metric system, in the near future.


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## P.A. ROCKER

moore said:


> Now you know how I feel!!


Didn't they teach reading a rule in Appalachia?


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## Mr.Brightstar

The metric system just makes more sense. For the idiocracy of dumbed down Americans, we use the standard system. Witch is not the standard for the world.


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## Mr.Brightstar

Isosceles triangle's are basic geometry. 

Transfer measurements connect the dots.


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## moore

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Didn't they teach reading a rule in Appalachia?


They tried ! :whistling2: 



I just use a stick with notches . :yes:


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## Mudstar

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I remember when I was in grammar school the teachers said the country would be adopting the metric system, in the near future.


That's kinda strange, grammar, your English teacher said this? I would of thought the Math teacher would have be the informant.


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## MrWillys

Mudstar said:


> That's kinda strange, grammar, your English teacher said this? I would of thought the Math teacher would have be the informant.


I thought Grammar school was like Grade school or Elementary school where the student was typically with a single teacher all day?
Kindergarten through the 3rd grade.


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## moore

rebaccaliare said:


> If you are considering this for trimming then I have to say that its not the right way you are doing it. Try a different way.


 have you ever seen a piece of sheetrock ?


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## Checkers

I do offs when they don't require thinking. Over time they have been getting easier of course. 
In Montana we all measure in eighths. No tight, no heavy, just eighths. If you're a good hanger then you know where a little gap is fine and where it's not.


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## Mudstar

rebaccaliare said:


> If you are considering this for trimming then I have to say that its not the right way you are doing it. Try a different way.





moore said:


> have you ever seen a piece of sheetrock ?


ditto :blink:


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## mld

moore said:


> have you ever seen a piece of sheetrock ?


If the answer is no, remain blissfully ignorant and run.


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## endo_alley

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Does anyone here take their measurement, and instead of pulling your tape and marking the sheet, you deduct the difference from the opposite end of the sheet.
> Without an calculator, of course.


Just for the length cut. Not for notches, cutouts, etc.. If you happen to be hung over (heaven forbid) you can just pinch your tape at 44" on the far edge of the sheet and add 100" for any cut that is less than a 44" butt being cut off. Stick your utility knife into the rock at the correct measurement. And as always, don't cut your tape with the utility knife.


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## MrWillys

We always backread even on side measurements. Top down 27 5/8" to simplify cutting. Why come bottom up to make a mark when you can draw a line from the top.


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> We always backread even on side measurements. Top down 27 5/8" to simplify cutting. Why come bottom up to make a mark when you can draw a line from the top.


Depends on how far over I'll need to bend. I'd rather cut off the top and flip the sheet than have to cut a small rip off the bottom ..


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## MrWillys

moore said:


> Depends on how far over I'll need to bend. I'd rather cut off the top and flip the sheet than have to cut a small rip off the bottom ..


Correct, but our board in shacks was rarely stocked standing up. We were told it was for safety. I would do the same in this instance. I'm talking more like a pipe wall or something cut up.


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## Mudstar

MrWillys said:


> Correct, but our board in shacks was rarely stocked standing up. We were told it was for safety. I would do the same in this instance. I'm talking more like a pipe wall or something cut up.


Safety this safety that, the earth is going to tip to the point there going to fall over hurt someone. Is the safety authorities hiring dufuses with no physics education what so ever. I'd like to know when has a stack of drywall has ever tipped over without the help of physical force if stacked properly. There is more physical safety issues and effort that causes injuries in bending over and flipping sheets then worry about a stack of drywall falling over. Who runs your business anyways JS


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## P.A. ROCKER

The only time I saw a stack of rock fall over was when an electrician thought he could lean it out a bit so he could squeeze through a door way. I yelled no, but it was too late and I had to dig him out.
I also heard of a time the HO wanted another outlet in a room and sure enough, there was a full 32 sheet draft leaning against the wall.
Sparky figured he could just pull the stack and let er drop.
It broke all the floor joists beneath.

One of our suppliers installs these rocksteady clips after loading a house,_ but it doesn't fix stupid._

https://vimeo.com/52113029


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## Mudstar

P.A. ROCKER said:


> The only time I saw a stack of rock fall over was when an electrician thought he could lean it out a bit so he could squeeze through a door way. I yelled no, but it was too late and I had to dig him out.
> I also heard of a time the HO wanted another outlet in a room and sure enough, there was a full 32 sheet draft leaning against the wall.
> Sparky figured he could just pull the stack and let er drop.
> It broke all the floor joists beneath.
> 
> One of our suppliers installs these rocksteady clips after loading a house,_ but it doesn't fix stupid._
> 
> https://vimeo.com/52113029


Pretty obvious it was not your fault and a costly lesson they both learned to keep your hands off.

I case of cart before the horse or this would not of happened.


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## moore

The only time I've seen a stack fall over ,,Is when a big muscle bound Mr. clean looking kid thought he could balance a 40 board stack while the other carpenter idiot grabbed a tape measure from behind the pile . 
The only thing that saved him was the scrap pile we were throwing out the house into the garage. The weight of the stack landed on the scrap pile but still pinned the kid pretty good. While we were pulling the board off the boy His boss the G/C was giving him a good cussing ...He said you ain't as big as you thought !! Are you?? 


And that was back when they made real sheetrock .


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> Correct, but our board in shacks was rarely stocked standing up. We were told it was for safety. I would do the same in this instance. I'm talking more like a pipe wall or something cut up.


It was never done for safety Willy . On Commercial jobs the plumbers and sparkys are never done with their work when the board shows up so they have to lay the board in the floor . Typical union Stuff!!! :whistling2: :laughing:


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## MrWillys

I'll bow out at this point and let the Idiocracy continue. Night


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## endo_alley

moore said:


> The only time I've seen a stack fall over ,,Is when a big muscle bound Mr. clean looking kid thought he could balance a 40 board stack while the other carpenter idiot grabbed a tape measure from behind the pile .
> The only thing that saved him was the scrap pile we were throwing out the house into the garage. The weight of the stack landed on the scrap pile but still pinned the kid pretty good. While we were pulling the board off the boy His boss the G/C was giving him a good cussing ...He said you ain't as big as you thought !! Are you??
> 
> 
> And that was back when they made real sheetrock .


Hmm. A strong back and a weak mind. This kid may make a good drywaller some day if natural selection doesn't get rid of him meantime.


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## moore

MrWillys said:


> I'll bow out at this point and let the Idiocracy continue. Night


Oh come on .....you got a chuckle out of that...don't say you didn't...:jester:


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## shack

Mudstar said:


> Don't screw top plate or the angles ether or your fired


what do you mean ?


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## Mudstar

shack said:


> what do you mean ?


 self explanatory I thought :blink:


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## shack

Mudstar said:


> self explanatory I thought :blink:


dont scrw the corners? guess i was taught wrong.


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## moore

shack said:


> don't screw the corners? guess i was taught wrong.


He's trying to eliminate screw pops due to truss lift. I get the ceiling screws ..But the top plate makes little sense to me. But where Mudstar's from they put 1000 screws in every sheet...Why they worry about screw pops is beyond me ! :whistling2:


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## Mudstar

shack said:


> dont scrw the corners? guess i was taught wrong.


Less effort with better results considering structural integrity and avoiding call backs is the value I offer my customers. Some do understand my reasoning and I'll leave it at that.

:yes:


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## mld

Mudstar said:


> Less effort with better results considering structural integrity and avoiding call backs is the value I offer my customers. Some do understand my reasoning and I'll leave it at that.
> 
> :yes:


I understand completely. We quit screwing top plates years ago. Structural movement in the winter, lumber drying out and internals cracking, and just good old fashion laziness!

If it was up to me I would use fasteners in the verticals either, but you gotta hold the board to the wall somehow.


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## endo_alley

Mudstar said:


> Less effort with better results considering structural integrity and avoiding call backs is the value I offer my customers. Some do understand my reasoning and I'll leave it at that.
> 
> :yes:


We have screw inspections. A screw every eight inches on perimeters of sheets. And storm clips on trusses. So they shouldn't lift. If you have movement, the tape is going to crack. So engineer the job to stop the movement.


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## P.E.I.Taper

endo_alley said:


> We have screw inspections. A screw every eight inches on perimeters of sheets. And storm clips on trusses. So they shouldn't lift. If you have movement, the tape is going to crack. So engineer the job to stop the movement.



Except for the fact they hire me to drywall and finish, not to engineer houses


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## Mudstar

endo_alley said:


> We have screw inspections. A screw every eight inches on perimeters of sheets. And storm clips on trusses. So they shouldn't lift. If you have movement, the tape is going to crack. So engineer the job to stop the movement.


In theory if the house was built to not move at all then that would make sense but there framed mostly in wood, so. I've had better luck leaving out ceiling angle screws and dropping the wall screw 6" down from the top plate, it finishes with a straighter looking ceiling angle to boot. I guess we are off topic now and this should be in the tricks of the trade thread......:yes:


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## P.A. ROCKER

I keep screws back a foot or more on the ceilings, it makes a world of difference when it comes to cracked corners. Especially on trusses.


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## P.E.I.Taper

So.... what about the bottom plate??


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## P.A. ROCKER

P.E.I.Taper said:


> So.... what about the bottom plate??


Do you mean the floor plate?
I screw the top wall plate.
Some of our builders are using timber screws instead of hurricane ties to hold the trusses down,, it keeps the top angle nice and flat.


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## P.E.I.Taper

Do you screw into the floor plate? Or only on vertical studs??


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## endo_alley

If you have movement, the angle tape is going to crack. So not fastening drywall to the top plate isn't going to stop any cracking. Around where I live they will not pass the screwing inspection without everything fastened. And they look over the engineering drawings at permit time. So if a home or building isn't properly engineered, it will never get built in the first place.


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## P.A. ROCKER

endo_alley said:


> If you have movement, the angle tape is going to crack. So not fastening drywall to the top plate isn't going to stop any cracking.


Keeping screws back* absolutely* stops most corners from cracking. It allows the board to flex, thus keeping the corner together.

You can always fasten 20 ga. steel angle to the top plates of the walls that run perpendicular to trusses and get the same effect. That way you can screw to the metal and not the truss, keeping required screw centers.:yes:

We do fasten to the floor plates.


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## Mudstar

mld said:


> I understand completely. We quit screwing top plates years ago. Structural movement in the winter, lumber drying out and internals cracking, and just good old fashion laziness!
> 
> If it was up to me I would use fasteners in the verticals either, but you gotta hold the board to the wall somehow.


I'm surprised the Aussies have not chimed in with there glue one screw approach to hanging the roc.....


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## P.A. ROCKER

Mudstar said:


> I'm surprised the Aussies have not chimed in with there glue one screw approach to hanging the roc.....


They do cornice on top angles, and stack the wall sheets, leaving a gap between the ceiling and top wall sheet if I remember correctly.
Makes me wonder if the cornice acts as deflection.:mellow:


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## P.A. ROCKER

It's funny, a French Canadian told me 20 some years ago about keeping screws back from the corners to keep them from cracking. I've only been practicing it for eight years though.
Live and learn.


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## gazman

Mudstar said:


> I'm surprised the Aussies have not chimed in with there glue one screw approach to hanging the roc.....


Already been covered Mudstar. 

We use battens where I am, so when I have a job with top angles I screw the ceiling about 8 to 10 inches away from the angle and glue the parimeter. Then hang the top wall sheets before the glue sets. This makes for a very straight line, bearing in mind we use 3/8 rock. We fix to the top plate, our conditions here are not as severe as what you blokes have. No such thing as snow loading or temps much below zero.


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## Mudstar

gazman said:


> Already been covered Mudstar.
> 
> We use battens where I am, so when I have a job with top angles I screw the ceiling about 8 to 10 inches away from the angle and glue the parimeter. Then hang the top wall sheets before the glue sets. This makes for a very straight line, bearing in mind we use 3/8 rock. We fix to the top plate, our conditions here are not as severe as what you blokes have. No such thing as snow loading or temps much below zero.


Make a lot more sense the way you Aussies allow the house to breathe a bit. As we did some time ago until they came up with wrapping the house air tight in poly and plastics. 

The problem with that was it was killing a lot of people and the government could not even admit it, as it trapped harmful toxins molds creating air quality that has created a sting of health concerns including headaches, respiratory problems, frequent colds and sore throats, chronic cough, skin rashes, eye irritation, lethargy, dizziness and memory lapses let a lone increased risk of cancers.

So instead of reverting back to a healthier environment where the people are less likely to have this health issues they come up with an ingenious idea to use air exchangers to bring in fresh filtered air in. Sounds great doesn't it till something blocks the intake and doesn't allow that fresh air in. Its happened and people are still are dying over some of this health issues due to the environment there living in. Now that this has happened enough time so we now go and add more control and safety over this air intake with computers smarts, OMG rules and regulations created by bureaucrats that have no common sense and this is all greed driven making people believe that all of this was done to save a dollar in energy costs. Bull$hit! Now it cost 4 times for energy and equipment to keep our homes warm safe and with fresh air to breath. :blink: I bet you a life time of fresh air there scratching there heads thinking was it all worth it......
Was that on topic ?


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## Tapeslamr79

Yep..4 & 6 off is 139 3/4.. I was taught 123456 eighths..drywall don't need to be within 1/16"..so we use 4 for half inch 6 for 3/4 etc..


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