# High shoulders strike again!



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)




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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Give me A sec.:whistling2:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Our 'fix', run the 12" box offset to one side. We favored the top. Next we will favor the bottom, either by hand or with the box. We used the 12" because the 10"didn't quite take care of it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

:whistling2:..... N/G L/W.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The frame on this home was bad....REALLY bad! Junk board didn't help!


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

They seem to be back with a vengeance. Did moore piss someone off !?


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

Moore might have gotten together with the manufactures to bring us all some holiday cheer along with the price increase. Happy Holidays everyone!:whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I have just finished a house, Got the standard high shoulders but it is much better than what it has been, Might try and get some pics tomorrow.

Your board looks terrible.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Mudslinger said:


> Moore might have gotten together with the manufactures to bring us all some holiday cheer along with the price increase. Happy Holidays everyone!:whistling2:


I got my rates up last week!!:thumbup:
Teach the boss of the firm 2 phone me when drunk!!!:yes:
Phoned back 2 days later and called ma a c*nt lol:laughing:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

:lol::lol::thumbup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> They seem to be back with a vengeance. Did moore piss someone off !?





Mudslinger said:


> Moore might have gotten together with the manufactures to bring us all some holiday cheer along with the price increase. Happy Holidays everyone!:whistling2:


:blink: How did this turn on me?:laughing:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

We got a call this morning saying that a rep for LaFarge would be paying us a visit today. We were on site until 3, no rep.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> We got a call this morning saying that a rep for LaFarge would be paying us a visit today. We were on site until 3, no rep.


The smoke blower didn't show up???  Ain't that some chit!


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

moore said:


> :blink: How did this turn on me?:laughing:


Just having a little fun. On a serious note I've been getting horrible board also, and to top it off my mud now has little rocks in it. The bad board was USG, the lightweight 5/8" was absolutely disgusting on the lids. The mud was Proform All Purpose, and Proform Lite Blue. Little dark rocks, and it wont spread worth anything.


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

VANMAN said:


> I got my rates up last week!!:thumbup:
> Teach the boss of the firm 2 phone me when drunk!!!:yes:
> Phoned back 2 days later and called ma a c*nt lol:laughing:


That gives me an idea! Everyone I work for is getting whiskey for Christmas. The hard part will be catching them after they've finished off most the bottle.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudslinger said:


> Just having a little fun. On a serious note I've been getting horrible board also, and to top it off my mud now has little rocks in it. The bad board was USG, the lightweight 5/8" was absolutely disgusting on the lids. The mud was Proform All Purpose, and Proform Lite Blue. Little dark rocks, and it wont spread worth anything.


Well You would have been proud of me today...I blew a gasket this morning.

Far as I can tell ...I pissed off the G/C, The small supplier,The big supplier,The truss Co. ,,And the framers. And If I had to take a wild guess I'd say a rep from N/g will be calling me next week...I'm sitting here now in semi regret ...I should have did like I always do...Bite the bullet patch it up The best I can then move on to the next.. But this morning I LOST IT!!! ......And I can't take it back! 





Fck it!!! Who want's a beer???


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## ell (Jan 24, 2009)

*re:High Shoulders*

It"s almost a waste of time getting a rep out to look at their products,After playing stupid for awhile,they say the board is within tolerence, then if they relly want to shut you up they break out the t shirts, hats & etc.


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

moore said:


> Well You would have been proud of me today...I blew a gasket this morning.
> 
> Far as I can tell ...I pissed off the G/C, The small supplier,The big supplier,The truss Co. ,,And the framers. And If I had to take a wild guess I'd say a rep from N/g will be calling me next week...I'm sitting here now in semi regret ...I should have did like I always do...Bite the bullet patch it up The best I can then move on to the next.. But this morning I LOST IT!!! ......And I can't take it back!
> 
> ...


Sometimes you just can't help it, you have to blow a gasket. A guy starts to feel like there's a conspiracy against tapers lol. My last house had bad trusses, bad rock, and terrible rockers. On the lids I could tell the trusses were going up and down, and the rockers were pinching the butt joints just to make the joint that much nicer. 

I've made a decision on the last few houses to just run the boxes so they feather, and trowel them out if they look bad on 3rd coat after 12" boxing(never checking for flatness). Are they as flat as I would like them, definitely not, but I can't tape myself into the poor house. Every good taper I know struggles with being obsessive compulsive at times, and it affects how much we make. If the manufactures want to put out shoulders like this then maybe its time to just do the best we can, because it's an extreme pay decrease to fix them correctly for nothing. The eternal struggle trying to do the highest quality you can while still cranking out the work while dealing with inferior products.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

The other job we have going, we hung a month or so ago. Crappy framing and crooked. We started out re-cutting sheets to make them fit better, but it got to the point where it was every sheet. So, screw it, we'll dbl tape some angles! 

Another job we just did, the framing was out...a LOT! Inches! Just shake your head and make it look good. It should NOT be the hangers or the finishers job to straighten stuff out. *tired*


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

ell said:


> It"s almost a waste of time getting a rep out to look at their products,After playing stupid for awhile,they say the board is within tolerence, then if they relly want to shut you up they break out the t shirts, hats & etc.


The last rep I spoke to ..offered me money for my troubles . What does that tell you? THEY KNOW THERE PUTTING OUT CRAP!
He also offered to send me to NC. for a tour through the National Gypsum plant....I said...WTH Is that gonna solve!? Whoever had this bright idea of putting more air than lime stone into a piece of wallboard should be shot!...You do that for me And we'll be even! 


I can bitch at them..I can prove there product Is piss poor..I can raise all the hell I want....Cause I have no fear of being deported. I think that's how the suits look at it when there sitting at the table making there money saving changes [There just drywallers ! ]


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

i actually just ran into this problem in 1 of my condo units. I keep time for every job. Both units are exctly the same. First unit two men at 16 hours each for a total of 32 hours. Job complete in 4 days. 11 pails of mudd, 1 bag of durabond. Second unit. All ceiling seams bad. 50% of wall joints bad. we corrected them by doubling them up with a 12" knife. Time spent 46 hours between 2 men. 14 pails off mud and 2 bags of durabond. Completed on day 6. Thats an extra $60 in compound and another 14 man hours. Freakin BS. Now I have to be around everytime we get a delivery so i can accept or reject the rock before being stocked. Aint nobody got time for that.:furious:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I f*cken quit life! 
I hate you CGC


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

It must be a world wide problem. Our last house had them busting out everywhere.:furious:


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I f*cken quit life!
> I hate you CGC
> View attachment 9449


....


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Looks like you fixed it up just fine.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I f*cken quit life!
> I hate you CGC
> View attachment 9449


The regular USG down here ain't much better PT.
Don't even get me started on the L/W boards:furious:

The Certainteed boards from the West Va. plant was A real problem A few years ago ,But Within the last two years the Certainteed boards [regular] comes from North Carolina and It's a good solid board with a Good recess /nice clean cuts on the factory butts. My only bitch about it..[.And you know I'm gonna bitch about something!!!] Are the little blisters . There everywhere !! All through the field of the sheet.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Looks like the perfect excuse for Fibafuse and five minute :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> The regular USG down here ain't much better PT.
> Don't even get me started on the L/W boards:furious:
> 
> The Certainteed boards from the West Va. plant was A real problem A few years ago ,But Within the last two years the Certainteed boards [regular] comes from North Carolina and It's a good solid board with a Good recess /nice clean cuts on the factory butts. My only bitch about it..[.And you know I'm gonna bitch about something!!!] Are the little blisters . There everywhere !! All through the field of the sheet.


That sucks...
All I know is this is bullsh!t....
I had to skim out the flats huge...
This isn't right. CGC's gonna here from me on this one. I've had enough of this crap! Im gonna turn crap upside down until I get answers! 

CGC's YouTube channel = 39 Subscribers.
My YouTube channel = 4,009 Subscribers.

I'm sure CGC would love a video about how much their drywall sucks balls!
My videos are usually all positive for the most part, I'm a pretty happy go lucky guy. I can understand a bad sheet here and there. But my entire friggen lift was crap drywall! I had to skim flat joints in a cathedral damn near 3ft wide! Butt joints are easier to hide then their drywall! I for one have had enough.
Someone's gonna get on the phone with me and address these issues!
And I'm gonna damn well make it public so that every one here can hear what they have to say. And if nobody address's these issues, It's gonna get a hell of a lot more public on YouTube, tell you that much.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Bam! Right on their Facebook page. Lets see if I get a reply.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=258961070929101&set=o.106301488018&type=1&theater


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> That sucks...
> All I know is this is bullsh!t....
> I had to skim out the flats huge...
> This isn't right. CGC's gonna here from me on this one. I've had enough of this crap! Im gonna turn crap upside down until I get answers!
> ...


When I was getting no response from Certainteed about there West Va board I hit their facebook page....I got a call the very next day. Didn't solve a damn thing...A rep drove down to hear me piss and moan Then he blew some smoke up my ass...I've met with 2 reps over the L/W board in the last 2 years...THEY DON'T CARE!..


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

The reality of it is, unless the supply houses get behind it, it won't work. We are all just small fry. In the end, all they understand is money. So start rejecting loads and/or charge back to the supplier, they can pass it up the road to the manufacturers. But unless there is a sizeable movement behind it, it won't fix anything.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> When I was getting no response from Certainteed about there West Va board I hit their facebook page....I got a call the very next day. Didn't solve a damn thing...A rep drove down to hear me piss and moan Then he blew some smoke up my ass...I've met with 2 reps over the L/W board in the last 2 years...THEY DON'T CARE!..





fr8train said:


> The reality of it is, unless the supply houses get behind it, it won't work. We are all just small fry. In the end, all they understand is money. So start rejecting loads and/or charge back to the supplier, they can pass it up the road to the manufacturers. But unless there is a sizeable movement behind it, it won't fix anything.


The unfortunate truth is, you're both right.
They don't care and individually, we are all small fries....
But together? All of us? We can do something about it. I will do something about it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> But unless there is a sizeable movement behind it, it won't fix anything.


Yes...Your right!:yes: BUT! The mexicans ain't gonna bitch !!! For the fear of being deported...or losing their job. And USG/ N/G Certaintainteed know this ! Don't think the suits Haven't thought about who the majority of this trade caters to. They know!


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I just rejected 50 6m sheets on the last job. That got their attention. They had to hand load those, then restock the house by hand. It would be interesting to know how much that cost them.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

boral or csr?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

CSR out of the Yarraville plant.


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

The unfortunate thing for many of us is we don't find the problem till after it's hung. I didn't run into this till my last house was stocked with Certainteed. Boarding a basement now with CGC. We will see if we have the same issues as PT. 
I know a millwright who worked at the CGC plant not far from here. I'll ask him if they have any controls over it in the plant.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

D A Drywall said:


> The unfortunate thing for many of us is we don't find the problem till after it's hung. I didn't run into this till my last house was stocked with Certainteed. Boarding a basement now with CGC. We will see if we have the same issues as PT.
> I know a millwright who worked at the CGC plant not far from here. I'll ask him if they have any controls over it in the plant.


Im just gonna bust out my level as soon as the drywall starts being delivered into the house. If it's crap, it's going back.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Don't need a level, just a knife or a trowel. Usually, all you need to do is look at the back of the board @ the bevel. :YES:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> Don't need a level, just a knife or a trowel. Usually, all you need to do is look at the back of the board @ the bevel. :YES:


I was just just gonna use a small 1' level. If I see light top and bottom, it's going back.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm telling you, you don't need it, just use your trowel on the back of the board. The bad board is not flat behind the bevel, most of the time you can see it by eye and you can feel it with your hand. 

We complained a while back that you can't run the boxes over it, and the supplier guy said "no one's boxing anymore". Maybe that's BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> I'm telling you, you don't need it, just use your trowel on the back of the board. The bad board is not flat behind the bevel, most of the time you can see it by eye and you can feel it with your hand.
> 
> We complained a while back that you can't run the boxes over it, and the supplier guy said "no one's boxing anymore". Maybe that's BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!


That's ridiculous. I suppose we're gonna stop paving roads because the Amish don't drive cars.:furious:


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Fr8 interesting you say that. A few weeks ago we used board from Rona, a box store in Canada. I don't remember the brand but do remember that the bevels actually seemed to curl back behind the sheets in an odd way. Job was by the hour so the boxed stayed home. Still had to skim the bevels once more than usual. Got them to look nice then the home owner showed me the wall paper she decided to put up. WTF


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

D A Drywall said:


> I don't remember the brand


rounded over recess? Temple inland drywall? That's the joke of ALL wallboards!!!!! That chit is crazy messed up!:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> I'm telling you, you don't need it, just use your trowel on the back of the board. The bad board is not flat behind the bevel, most of the time you can see it by eye and you can feel it with your hand.
> 
> We complained a while back that you can't run the boxes over it, and the supplier guy said "no one's boxing anymore". Maybe that's BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!


Boxes need a good board and a good frame to work properly ..From what Iv'e gathered .


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## forestbhoy (Jun 16, 2013)

Just wondered if your boards are re made from waste, like over here. Shoulders are not a big problem as such, but now and again you can get a pallot that can be a pig to get over. Usually put this down to these recycled boards....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

forestbhoy said:


> Just wondered if your boards are re made from waste, like over here. Shoulders are not a big problem as such, but now and again you can get a pallot that can be a pig to get over. Usually put this down to these recycled boards....


The paper has been recycled 20 times over! and...http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2010/7/30/Synthetic-Gypsum/


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## forestbhoy (Jun 16, 2013)

Not aware of that being here, but if you are doing it, plus the cost savings involved,it wont be long before i see such things ....


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> CSR out of the Yarraville plant.


problem is still there gazman
this has been deliver today


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks like to same crap that we have on our current job. Date of manufacture 12/2/2014. One side of the board has a wiiiddde recess, and the other hardly any. And on the back it has a spoon drain.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

keke said:


> problem is still there gazman
> this has been deliver today


Are you playing with fire check at the moment?


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gazman said:


> Are you playing with fire check at the moment?


it's part of my life


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

That use to be a pile of L/W! But I raised holy hell!!! and It Worked!

The other tapers in the area can thank me for having a nice recess to deal with! Just one more supply to set straight and I'll be happy!


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Wow. Job well done Moore. What did you do to put the fear in to them? I mean to what lengths did you have to go to get that great a result


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, Moore, do tell!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

D A Drywall said:


> Wow. Job well done Moore. What did you do to put the fear in to them? I mean to what lengths did you have to go to get that great a result


I said I'm going home!!! I will come back when I get what I want!

Like a little bitch!............ You laugh?........hey ...It worked! :yes:
I fought It tooth and nail mang!!! Don't let them tell you the L/W is all you can get ! That's BS!


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

moore said:


> Boxes need a good board and a good frame to work properly ..From what Iv'e gathered .


After many complaints to the yard about the bad shoulders the sales rep told me no one finishes with auto tools any more:blink:. I had to laugh, I don't know anyone turning out houses that doesn't.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> After many complaints to the yard about the bad shoulders the sales rep told me no one finishes with auto tools any more:blink:. I had to laugh, I don't know anyone turning out houses that doesn't.


I'd tell him that even if no one wasn't using auto tools anymore, bad shoulders are still bad shoulders, and ask him why you should have to put up with them now, when you didn't have to before.

I'd also think about telling him not to insult your intelligence by trying to get you to swallow B.S. like no one is finishing with auto tools anymore.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> After many complaints to the yard about the bad shoulders the sales rep told me no one finishes with auto tools any more:blink:. I had to laugh, I don't know anyone turning out houses that doesn't.


Blowing smoke!!! I like to talk to a man eye to eye! But when the reps show up ..I just bend over!:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

moore said:


> I said I'm going home!!! I will come back when I get what I want!
> 
> Like a little bitch!............ You laugh?........hey ...It worked! :yes:
> I fought It tooth and nail mang!!! Don't let them tell you the L/W is all you can get ! That's BS!


Also .. I had two G/Cs standing behind me. They told the supply to give this man what he wants! That helped me out a bunch.:yes:


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## Masterpiece (Mar 29, 2010)

Wow that's cool. I worked with a volunteer group down in Mississippi the last couple of weekends and all that was used was 5/8" LW. The hangers were driving me crazy either not sinking the screws enough or blowing right through the board!

Glad you're getting what you want lol!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

keke said:


> problem is still there gazman
> this has been deliver today


got a sh&t stack once


once

told the delivery guys to tell thier boss and anyone in the wharehouse if I get sh&t bent beads etc. you are coming back to take it away and replace or can get from another supply house, never a problem again, funny how they think they can drop junk on one guy..


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## nd636 (Feb 10, 2014)

Masterpiece said:


> Wow that's cool. I worked with a volunteer group down in Mississippi the last couple of weekends and all that was used was 5/8" LW. The hangers were driving me crazy either not sinking the screws enough or blowing right through the board!
> 
> Glad you're getting what you want lol!


Where were you at in mississippi?


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## Masterpiece (Mar 29, 2010)

Doing some non profit work down in Yazoo City, middle of nowhere. I'm just outside Memphis, TN and paint by trade (res, comm) but help a small group (no one gets paid) with volunteer work around the state a few times a year.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> Also .. I had two G/Cs standing behind me. They told the supply to give this man what he wants! That helped me out a bunch.:yes:


your the man Moore:yes:


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## nd636 (Feb 10, 2014)

I haven't run into this very much only a few boards here and there, but I went on a job a friend of mine was finishing and there were 4 screws in the field on 48 inch boards the one about 6 inches from either seam and 2 in the middle. He said he was having the hangers do this because of the high shoulders you guys are showing. I didn't check any of the seams to see but he is pretty picky about his work so I am guessing it helped. I wonder if maybe the boards are flexing out when the recess on the back is getting pulled in. If this is what is happening what if you screwed the field like my friend and glued the taper to stop it from pulling back in. 
Like I said I haven't run into this much and this may not help at all just an idea.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

nd636 said:


> I haven't run into this very much only a few boards here and there, but I went on a job a friend of mine was finishing and there were 4 screws in the field on 48 inch boards the one about 6 inches from either seam and 2 in the middle. He said he was having the hangers do this because of the high shoulders you guys are showing. I didn't check any of the seams to see but he is pretty picky about his work so I am guessing it helped. I wonder if maybe the boards are flexing out when the recess on the back is getting pulled in. If this is what is happening what if you screwed the field like my friend and glued the taper to stop it from pulling back in.
> Like I said I haven't run into this much and this may not help at all just an idea.


Sorry to disagree, but in my opinion more screws is never the answer.


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## nd636 (Feb 10, 2014)

mld said:


> Sorry to disagree, but in my opinion more screws is never the answer.


It would be 4 screws total in a board that is not more screws. What I am wondering is if the problem is made worse by screwing it on at the joint since the back of the board is also recessed. Is it working like a fulcrum and pushing the board out worse than it already is when the outer edge is flexed back to the studs?
Like I said I have not run into this much just throwing out suggestions.

Has anybody had any of the lightweight boards have almost a texture on them. I just did a room that looks like all of the boards have a rough surface kind of like they were rained on and swole where the drops hit. (I know this isn't what happened we stocked the rock, that's the best description I can come up with for it)?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> your the man Moore:yes:


Thanks Joe ! I'm getting a better board ... Not the best!!! It's still chit just better than the other!


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

ok...now I have it my 10'' box don't like it. what do I do box next to it and make the seam 20'' wide


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

icerock drywall said:


> ok...now I have it my 10'' box don't like it. what do I do box next to it and make the seam 20'' wide


become a plasterer !


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

moore said:


> Thanks Joe ! I'm getting a better board ... Not the best!!! It's still chit just better than the other!


I spoke too soon Joe! I swear I can't win for losing....This G/C builds his homes out of the lumber all the others send back ..That don't help manners none! 
The first few batches seemed OK ,,But this one is awful ..They seem to be on one side of the board .


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Nice pics of some chitty board Moore. Seems like its getting harder and harder to get away from it. Over here I find Certainteed is the worst but that's lightweight. Finished hanging CGC on Friday. Will see tomorrow what it's like.


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