# nail/screw pops



## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey guys,
I had to do final touch up today on a house we finished in the spring. 95% of repairs were nail/screw pops in the ceilings along the edge of the board in the angles. The rest was just some small nicks. Everything else was fine , no bead / angle cracks , no field pops.To solve this (pop ) problem in the future I'm thinking of just glueing close to the edge & letting the board float,( no nails ).
What do you guys think?


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

*Nail Pops*

I've had this happen before...can be anything from the framing, bad lumber, outside weather conditions, bad hangers, etc that can force the nails to pop. Depending on the job, i sometimes will instruct my guys to screw everything perimeter and field. Most of the time, its just not worth the headache, time, and money when the customer calls back months later and needs to have the nail pops fixed. And if theres a fine machine applied spray texture, like a stipple.....thats not easy to patch and match. Most often, i'll just respray the entire ceiling after fixing it vs. trying to blend it.

its always NAILS that pop....not screws.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> I've had this happen before...can be anything from the framing, bad lumber, outside weather conditions, bad hangers, etc that can force the nails to pop. Depending on the job, i sometimes will instruct my guys to screw everything perimeter and field. Most of the time, its just not worth the headache, time, and money when the customer calls back months later and needs to have the nail pops fixed. And if theres a fine machine applied spray texture, like a stipple.....thats not easy to patch and match. Most often, i'll just respray the entire ceiling after fixing it vs. trying to blend it.
> 
> its always NAILS that pop....not screws.


 This was scews also.The hangers use just enough nails to hold the board up,then screw. Most I see are above outside walls & load bearing walls.I think the additional weight load compresses the ends of the ceiling joists causing fasteners to push out.
This job was all smooth finish, so ceilings have to be perfect.:thumbsup:


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Muddauber said:


> This was scews also.The hangers use just enough nails to hold the board up,then screw. Most I see are above outside walls & load bearing walls.I think the additional weight load compresses the ends of the ceiling joists causing fasteners to push out.
> This job was all smooth finish, so ceilings have to be perfect.:thumbsup:


yea......man, i don't think i've ever seen screws pop...but not doubting that it could happen.

If so, i don't even know what to say  ...most likely bad lumber, and as you mentioned -- structural reasons......weight distribution, etc.

anyways, smooth wall finish...i know how that goes, hahhahaha....i always bid smooth wall jobs pretty high....especially if the customer gets smart enough to throw in terms like "level 5 finish" etc....

in this case, what seems to work good for me as far as smooth wall...is three coats, 3rd coat done by hand on the nails....sanding.....spot touch-up.....then roll on hamilton prep coat. so far, on my demanding commercial jobs, this'll do it.

of course, framing better be spot on.....if not, i have a disclaimer in my contract that says i am not responsible for neligent framing.

drywall can only reflect the integrity of the framing.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

In 28 years I don't remember ever seeing a screw pop It has always been nails, I take them out and replace next to the nail hole with a screw and make sure it's set below the surface without breaking the paper of the board. I use Durabond 90 as my bed coat then second coat is Durbond then topping compound, as for level 5 That's the norm all the time. also if mud bubbles on screw heads it's cause the mud didn't bond to the screw head so it looks like a pop, shave it off and fill with Durabond 90 spot it out.:thumbsup:

www.frankawitz.net


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

Frank are ya stupit? A screw will pop just as fast as a nail and ya ought to know this if your from michigan. Humidty Temp cond did the house take on a ton of water. I was in a house i did last spring that was framed in the winter took 4 months to frame, Hell they were snow blowing the subfloor.The framers were running propane in basement after roofed.Almost every screw popped in all ceilings joints ridged, beads popped in places.Lumber shrinks is my point but the fasteners stay put. The builder was not trying to blame me a bit, some people get it. your saying the reason my screws popped is from the compound not sticking to the head. Get a F-ing clue frank the mud is not bubbling till after a heat cycle the wood shrinks the screw stays. His corner round on wood floor was up 3/8" from the subloor shrinking. 28 years never seen a screw pop lol.You know how ya get away from srew pops put the house up let sit a year with heat then finish a year later and hang metal rc-1 channel on all ceilings.If you live in mi and do smooth lids youve seen a screw pop, or your not looking close enough.


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

i here ya brother bang on analysis get it a lot in winter construction everything looks fine when final sanded even after primer and first coat then after a month or two when all the following trades are done and its time for the final coat of paint the screws are popped mostly just corners of the screws popping out as a result of lumber shrinkage and twisting its really unavoidable in production housing and experienced trades in my area kinda expect it and deal with it as part of the job.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

apple,
how does a screw pop the wood can shrink but it isn't gonna push the screw out knob:whistling2: Now I have seen rocker put up their rock in the cold and the board sags, cause they didn't add enough screws to the field and I have seen screws that bubble cause the mud didn't bond cause the temp was to cold, But no in 29 years I have never seen a screw POP:blink:
The other thing, I haven't worked in new homes in over 20 years, the reason cause now it's all about how fast a crew can fly through a house, not much Quality anymore, what when you hang and finish you do two coats of mud sand and then spray paint finish :whistling2: Oh yeah that's Quality:thumbup:

www.frankawitz.net


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I used to say same as Frank, never seen a screw pop, but they do. Never seen the bubbling you describe, though. I agree it is the ****ty green lumber, 2x6 - 2x12 is ALL green. Even 2x4 plate is green. Only kiln-dried lumber these days is PC studs.

Lumberman tells me that a Geen DF 2x may shrink in length up 3/8 per 8'. I've seen more though. No figures on width shrinkage, but am sure it would be under-reported. Seen 2x10 joists shrink 1/4 - 1/2" in situ myself. This is where roping/crowning occurs in stairways even when the hanger span over the rim joist. Heaven help you if they land the taper joint on the plate or rim. Just my .02.


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

o.k. this is how i see it sometimes when boarding if the screwer is opperating with a gun thats set to deep and breaking the paper around the head it's a "popped" screw if the tapers don't catch this and proceed to coat it comes back to haunt ya and has to come and get replaced.
also a properly set screw can be coated and sanded, and over a short period of time while the stud dries out it shrinks and sometimes twists resulting in popping the screw,this is also refered to as a "popped" screw in my parts, but when a screw is put in beside it and the board is pulled tight to the stud the popped screw is indeed pushed out slightlly from the board.
i think any problem with a drywall fastener whether it's pushed in to far or pushed out is commonlly called "popped".


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

Exactly, But when mud is pushed out of screw hole slightly 2 months later and screw is not past the paper. Lumber shrinkage, if i put a screw next to it wont do any good basicly have to either put a 1/4 turn on em or pull em. theyre not popped, although i get some totaly popped screws as well. Lumber is **** better off going with metal on al smoth ceilings


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

its a no win situation during the winter months


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

you can polish a terd all year long, in the end it's still a terd.


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

I know an old guy that only used hattrack for all lids. And pulled all field screws when glue was set.Seen to many de-laminated ceilings to try that one, one batch of bad glue and it all comes down. Hell I plastered a house and all the screws on lid pushed through that as well we just scraped it smooth after a heat cycle.Done this stuff a long time and the lumber/ timeframe allowed for house to dry out, makes me ashamed of my own work, and these are no small homes. But i get a rep on the job to cover my ass and blame it on condition and or circumstances. My builders know i don't cut any corners and allways shows up on their work as well such as cabinets shifter floors settling, ya name it. Sorry to bitch but its getting rediculous.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Feel all of ya on the screw pops. Had a builder once that asked for us to glue the walls and then use 2" screws through a scrap on the walls, let the glue set and remove screw/scrap prior to spotting. This was just the field screws, mind you. Okay in theory, no pops in the field, but kind of a pain in the a**.

Ever notice how much more warranty work there is in a home where the folks are all on the heavy side compared to when they are all real skinny. :lol: Think about it.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

never thought about that, makes sense


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

1 tube per 5 sheets. Pull screws out of field. Walls only. Dont have nerve to do the ceilings this way, but know drywall men who do. Wet wood ,wet rock is the problem!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## PrairrieDogExpress (Jan 29, 2010)

Muddauber said:


> Hey guys,
> I had to do final touch up today on a house we finished in the spring. 95% of repairs were nail/screw pops in the ceilings along the edge of the board in the angles. The rest was just some small nicks. Everything else was fine , no bead / angle cracks , no field pops.To solve this (pop ) problem in the future I'm thinking of just glueing close to the edge & letting the board float,( no nails ).
> What do you guys think?


We used to have problems with this all the time. Now boarders stay away from the ceiling angles with screws at least 1ft (wherever possible). Like you said just let it float. Its not coming down cause the wall sheets are holding it in place but it will not rise with truss uplift. You will be amazed at how many headaches you will save down the road by doing this.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> We used to have problems with this all the time. Now boarders stay away from the ceiling angles with screws at least 1ft (wherever possible). Like you said just let it float. Its not coming down cause the wall sheets are holding it in place but it will not rise with truss uplift. You will be amazed at how many headaches you will save down the road by doing this.


wow ,your bang on the money PDE ,as I read the previous post I was surprised no one mentioned truss lift.they use to put L track (1x2) up,but slowly guys began to figure out not to put nails/screws in the field/edge.the central area of the house gets the lift,not the exterior wall areas.thats why some builders want you to start your ceilings from a interior wall to exterior wall in case theres a 12 or 16 inch rip cut.You can't do it all the time ,(house designs etc)but you try the best you can.
some guys like to use the drywall clips too.they hook on the drywall,then you nail them to the wall,but I found them to be a bit of a nuisance to use.
do I have anyone confused yet


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## igorson (Nov 10, 2010)

Try 20 minutes for nail pops. Hard mud keeps better than all purpose.
http://1drywall.com


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

igorson said:


> Try 20 minutes for nail pops. Hard mud keeps better than all purpose.
> http://1drywall.com


no it don't,share your drugs or get reading more post on here,you may learn something:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> no it don't,share your drugs or get reading more post on here,you may learn something:yes:


i have found that hot mud will not bond to well to metal or fiberglass. gp will.
[just my theory] 2 bucks right, i learn alot here. bottoms up!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

basement walls (poured walls) take 4 to 5 years to cure. thats a lot of moisture . could it be a factor containing lumber shrinkage??? :huh:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> wow ,your bang on the money PDE ,as I read the previous post I was surprised no one mentioned truss lift.they use to put L track (1x2) up,but slowly guys began to figure out not to put nails/screws in the field/edge.the central area of the house gets the lift,not the exterior wall areas.thats why some builders want you to start your ceilings from a interior wall to exterior wall in case theres a 12 or 16 inch rip cut.You can't do it all the time ,(house designs etc)but you try the best you can.
> some guys like to use the drywall clips too.they hook on the drywall,then you nail them to the wall,but I found them to be a bit of a nuisance to use.
> do I have anyone confused yet


if truss is braced properly they will stay fairly stable. if braced to much, will lift wall from floor. (seen that) add all the metal in a factory truss, hot / cold weather changes , could it cause a movement??????????????


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

*screws pop*

just ran into it the first time I ever seen most of the house in screw popage, found out the wood was wet at build, was raining alot also so it did not dry first I ever seen


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

*humidity*

I done an addition this past summer and had 90% of screws pop. Sheetrock was purchased at Menards and while it was kept under roof it was still stored outside. It was so humid that rock had actually swelled so when hung inside and air conditioner running rock dried out shrank and none of my screws were tight. Had a pretty cool home owner after explaining what happened he paid extra hourly wages to correct problem.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

you were very lucky to have a homeowner understand--- probably easier than some Gc.s


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

Yepppperrrs its the wood in my opinion. I do alot of repairs all day long and see the same things over and over and over. Whens the last time u fixed screw pops on a metal stud job??? I just stick screw driver right in circle and twist 1/4 turn, hit em twice tight. I used to try and hit once heavy and sand,never got any complaints but i could see them up and down walls after painted. Its a pain in the ass and i understand why the painters get so mad,but its not our fault either. If u have a big sun wall where this situation aint an option have hangers glue evry stud,put scabs over studs,set with nail and pull em the next day,perimeters are still nailed/screwd but under tape. just my opinion of course but yea this is an issue,maybe someone can figure out how to stop it because i bet the wood situation dont change. PEACE OUT


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

muddermankc said:


> yepppperrrs its the wood in my opinion. I do alot of repairs all day long and see the same things over and over and over. Whens the last time u fixed screw pops on a metal stud job??? I just stick screw driver right in circle and twist 1/4 turn, hit em twice tight. I used to try and hit once heavy and sand,never got any complaints but i could see them up and down walls after painted. Its a pain in the ass and i understand why the painters get so mad,but its not our fault either. If u have a big sun wall where this situation aint an option have hangers glue evry stud,put scabs over studs,set with nail and pull em the next day,perimeters are still nailed/screwd but under tape. Just my opinion of course but yea this is an issue,maybe someone can figure out how to stop it because i bet the wood situation dont change. Peace out


thank you!!! You are right. its not a problem with metal studs. just wood . they cut these 20 year pines, then 1 month later there on the job site. 
kiln dried my a**. there's no way it can be truly dry, or cured.


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## screwyardwork (Jan 26, 2011)

just repaired a house that the mud was bubbled out over the screw heads.could take my 4 and scrap it flat.Ive seen it before but not this bad.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

screwyardwork said:


> just repaired a house that the mud was bubbled out over the screw heads.could take my 4 and scrap it flat.Ive seen it before but not this bad.


 That was nails that were spotted with hot mud my friend


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

screwyardwork said:


> just repaired a house that the mud was bubbled out over the screw heads.could take my 4 and scrap it flat.Ive seen it before but not this bad.


some are worse than others. a combination of wet wood/wet rock/winter season . your screwed. heat or no heat. wood must be dry. but who's gonna wait for that? we all have to work. more so now than ever. if it's screwed/nailed to wood , good luck. kiln dried lumber is a myth. i grab a kiln dried 2x4 and sap sticks to my hand. thats not a dry piece of wood. thats green. at the bottom of my invoice states . not responsible for wood shrinkage ,due to high content of moisture,and or green lumber. i preach this when they call and say the house is dried in. [ the house is not dried in] FACE IT!! it is the drywall mans fault. crappy lumber/high content of moisture in rock/truss lift/ insufficient heating/BAD PAINTERS! it is all are fault. :whistling2:


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

we get em most of the houses we do in kc. its definitely the wood,the mud does seperate from the screw head into small tab,really sucks but havent figured out how to avoid it,sometimes out of the blue a house dont have any. Was thinking possiby the moisture from wood is getting on screw head and not allowing mud to stick,dont know,but yes its screws:blink:
on commercial jobs with metal studs we havent seen any


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

muddermankc said:


> we get em most of the houses we do in kc. its definitely the wood,the mud does seperate from the screw head into small tab,really sucks but havent figured out how to avoid it,sometimes out of the blue a house dont have any. Was thinking possiby the moisture from wood is getting on screw head and not allowing mud to stick,dont know,but yes its screws:blink:
> on commercial jobs with metal studs we havent seen any


are they using mechanical or wood drywall screws,wood drywall screws won't stop popping but it does Minimize it.They grab better .Plus what the capt said in post #31 too
Just wondering


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> are they using mechanical or wood drywall screws,wood drywall screws won't stop popping but it does Minimize it.They grab better .Plus what the capt said in post #31 too
> Just wondering


yeah i get what capt is saying . hot mud will not stick to metal. i know. what screw do i use on wood?:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> yeah i get what capt is saying . hot mud will not stick to metal. i know. what screw do i use on wood?:blink:


Fine thread meant for steel stud (we or I,call them mechanical)
Coarse thread are meant for wood.
It cost more for the wood one's ,Our rockers get into sh*t if they don't use them,It cuts down on the screw pops big time .And of coarse proper environment must be maintained in house too ,blah,blah ,blah:yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Fine thread meant for steel stud (we or I,call them mechanical)
> Coarse thread are meant for wood.
> It cost more for the wood one's ,Our rockers get into sh*t if they don't use them,It cuts down on the screw pops big time .And of coarse proper environment must be maintained in house too ,blah,blah ,blah:yes:


yeah ,i know that horse is dead. we use the coarse thread. was hopein you would tell me about some state of the art screw that never pops.  oh well.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

moore said:


> yeah i get what capt is saying . hot mud will not stick to metal. i know. what screw do i use on wood?:blink:


 Hot mud will swell, even a hand full of 90 min mud in a bucket of AP will cause the mud to swell up on the head of a nail or screw to where it needs to be scraped before coated again. Not the same thing as the mud turning loose. Two differant problems


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Hot mud will swell, even a hand full of 90 min mud in a bucket of AP will cause the mud to swell up on the head of a nail or screw to where it needs to be scraped before coated again. Not the same thing as the mud turning loose. Two differant problems


i spot all field screws with a/p. no water added. is that the right thing to do capt? 90 percent of screw pops are in the field. don't mean to keep beatin this horse . just asking.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> i spot all field screws with a/p. no water added. is that the right thing to do capt? 90 percent of screw pops are in the field. don't mean to keep beatin this horse . just asking.


The less water the better.:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> i spot all field screws with a/p. no water added. is that the right thing to do capt? 90 percent of screw pops are in the field. don't mean to keep beatin this horse . just asking.


I do the same as you moore ,straight stiff right out of the box


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> The less water the better.:thumbsup:


tape / block in / skim ?


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> tape / block in / skim ?


On screws. Nothing is guaranteed but less water or no water = less shrinkage. On my first 2 coats I'll use it out of the box. Third coat is a skim and gets a little water. Makes it easier to sand. Knives I use - 4",4",6"


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> On screws. Nothing is guaranteed but less water or no water = less shrinkage. On my first 2 coats I'll use it out of the box. Third coat is a skim and gets a little water. Makes it easier to sand. Knives I use - 4",4",6"


the Ontario way :thumbsup: if we go by hand we do them that way,but most times now we go ,4" stroked out skinny (stiff),4" single spot (stiff),then 3" nail spotter .Then some times,4" stroke with stiff ,then spotter ran left one run,right next run .We change up doing the screws a lot .Because I really hate doing screws :furious:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> the Ontario way :thumbsup: if we go by hand we do them that way,but most times now we go ,4" stroked out skinny (stiff),4" single spot (stiff),then 3" nail spotter .Then some times,4" stroke with stiff ,then spotter ran left one run,right next run .We change up doing the screws a lot .Because I really hate doing screws :furious:


got it . good night. i will wake up tomorrow with a new know how.:thumbsup:


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## ntlookinbck (Jan 12, 2013)

If its hung and fastened right it shouldnt get pops that quickly.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

ntlookinbck said:


> If its hung and fastened right it shouldnt get pops that quickly.


 Let me guess....You have never been called back for screw pops?


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

moore said:


> Let me guess....You have never been called back for screw pops?


 on our lids we keep screws away from exterior{out side walls] walls. And use the wall board to hold up the lids just on exterior. on vaults we also put a flashing in on the peak never screw into the framing at the peak.

we glue all interior walls and only put one screw every 4' or so. so a 12' board would only have 2 screws in the field.

on exterior walls you can't glue cuz the poly right? out here they want 3 in the field on exterior walls as well as lids your definatly not allowed to remove them.

that also goes for seperation walls or fire walls but they only get 2 in the field.

Used to work in a mill they do kiln dry the wood, and they make some awesome wood too. .They call it j grad and none of it stays here its all shipped to japan they pay way more for it.. Builders pay for the cheapest crap they can get it looks good when you open the stack but starts to twist right away probably 20 years ago we built with the good stuff but never in my construction life.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

gordie said:


> Builders pay for the cheapest crap they can get it looks good when you open the stack but starts to twist right away probably 20 years ago we built with the good stuff but never in my construction life.


"Quick! get this lumber into place before the sun hits it!"


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

:


SlimPickins said:


> "Quick! get this lumber into place before the sun hits it!"


:jester::thumbup: yep thats the stuff we get.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> Let me guess....You have never been called back for screw pops?


USG blue! 2 coats!
First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

VANMAN said:


> USG blue! 2 coats!
> First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
> Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
> And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


 Yea i was gonna say you guy's must do alot of renos with it being your job not a d.c's. 
On new construction i doubt any taper i know would't go back after a week let alone a year that's why our companies charge about 2 to 3 times more than it costs us to board and tape.

Just in case they need to con a taper to do a waranty repair down the road. 300$ bucks .

or me to do a board or 2 100$ bucks.

they should get to keep the other 5000$ unless the sky is falling:furious:


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> USG blue! 2 coats!
> First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
> Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
> And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


Have you gone back after it is primed with a halogen at all? Just have yet to see screws get hit only twice and come out right even if they are capped.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

thefinisher said:


> Have you gone back after it is primed with a halogen at all? Just have yet to see screws get hit only twice and come out right even if they are capped.


I make a point of going 2 look at my work after it is painted!!
And everytime its all good!
No, there is no sealer over here but sometimes i will recommend that it is used!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

gordie said:


> Yea i was gonna say you guy's must do alot of renos with it being your job not a d.c's.
> On new construction i doubt any taper i know would't go back after a week let alone a year that's why our companies charge about 2 to 3 times more than it costs us to board and tape.
> 
> Just in case they need to con a taper to do a waranty repair down the road. 300$ bucks .
> ...


And no i don't do renos!! Not if i can help it!
New houses only:thumbup:


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

What texture do your houses get Van?


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Philma Crevices said:


> What texture do your houses get Van?


No texture! Everything is smooth!
Thats what i deal with!:blink:


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Ahh, gottcha. Reason I ask is for smooth out here we couldn't get away with less than 3


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

VANMAN said:


> USG blue! 2 coats!
> First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
> Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
> And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


"Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!"

Absolutely agree....but I still do 3 coats. Spot on the walls and ( depending on light cast ) spot or stripe on the ceilings.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Square Foot said:


> "Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!"
> 
> Absolutely agree....but I still do 3 coats. Spot on the walls and ( depending on light cast ) spot or stripe on the ceilings.


I really dont c the need for the 3 coats!! Just looking at them will tell me if they r filled or not!!!!


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

VANMAN said:


> USG blue! 2 coats!
> First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
> Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
> And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


 
What type of pait does you your homes get, flat, eggshell, satin?


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Muddauber said:


> What type of pait does you your homes get, flat, eggshell, satin?


Depends on the house! Seen it all as i served my time as a painter!!
Dont like doing it now but i still can!:blink:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Muddauber said:


> What type of pait does you your homes get, flat, eggshell, satin?


If its eggshell,satin,another coat on the screws means nothin!! Needs a sealer! U guys r trying 2 say my screwheads r hollow!! Not at all! Urs r maybe humped if u keep coating them?:jester:


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## Square Foot (Jul 1, 2012)

VANMAN said:


> If its eggshell,satin,another coat on the screws means nothin!! Needs a sealer! U guys r trying 2 say my screwheads r hollow!! Not at all! Urs r maybe humped if u keep coating them?:jester:


Again, I agree. There is no reason to mound the the area surrounding the dimple....the compound should stay as tight to the board as possible. BUT......I still do 3 coats


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

VANMAN said:


> USG blue! 2 coats!
> First by hand,second by spotter! Nothing else needed!
> Its only a screwhead that needs filled!!:whistling2:
> And yea chief,i have never been called back 2 any job i have done as they all know i will tell them 2 f*ck off as its the painters job after i am finished!!


I was at Blowe3 one day, to get mud with another drywaller. I looked at a bucket of blue lid,,,, 

It said, lightweight, less shrinkage over metal,easier sanding ,,,,,,

I looked at em and said,,,, "TELL ME WHY WE don"t LIKE THIS AGAIN???"


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I was at Blowe3 one day, to get mud with another drywaller. I looked at a bucket of blue lid,,,,
> 
> It said, lightweight, less shrinkage over metal,easier sanding ,,,,,,
> 
> I looked at em and said,,,, "TELL ME WHY WE don"t LIKE THIS AGAIN???"


 Because it's too easy to sand???


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't see what the big deal is about doing two coats on screws...
Especially if Vanman's using the blue lid USG. 
It's listed right in the description!
"up to 30-percent less weight; less shrinkage; and exceptional ease of sanding. It offers good crack-resistance, excellent adhesion, and superior ease of handling. The compound is used for embedding and finishing and requires only two coats over corner beads and fasteners."

http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-plus-3-lightweight-all-purpose-joint-compound.html

I was talking to Joe from Trim-Tex today and he was explaining the same thing to me. Those guys are so dedicated to what they do, they sit there and watch the mud dry! Then document it so that we can all learn from it.
The blue lid does what it claims.

And if guys are worried about the adhesion against the steel screws, mix some mud max into the mud! And some glue and do two coats. You might be surprised how much work you can save by not having to do a third pass.

Don't get me wrong, I've always done 3 coats on screws as well. But I've never tried other methods. If Vanman claims his work looks good, then I believe him. If Trim-Tex then supports his claim by telling me that they've tested it in their training facility's then I can't argue. 

Time and time again I've even heard guys talk about two coating butt joints. I also think a large majority of guys on here do two coats on beads. So what's the problem here?...we can get away with two coats on beads and butts but not a friggen screw hole?! Common now boys....

I for one might have to try other methods of doing my screws. If I can do two coats and they look great, then why not!?
I'm going to add some MudMax to my first coat and keep it thick right out of the box and then do one more pass and see what happens. :yes:

Thanks Vanman & Trim-Tex


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I use usg right out the pail un mixed but if I only 2 coated them with a satin or eggshell my walls would look similar to a Titleist golf ball. I think it depends on working conditions, installation, and exterior weather. As well as how deep they are set. I actually do 4 coats on exterior walls, MMR board, and most main and master bedroom lids. I think that most people run into problems with screws when the sheetrock itself is damp. I give them whatever it takes. Shine a 300W bulb on all your walls before painting. You will see everything


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> I don't see what the big deal is about doing two coats on screws...
> Especially if Vanman's using the blue lid USG.
> It's listed right in the description!
> "up to 30-percent less weight; less shrinkage; and exceptional ease of sanding. It offers good crack-resistance, excellent adhesion, and superior ease of handling. The compound is used for embedding and finishing and requires only two coats over corner beads and fasteners."
> ...


It's all about who is paying you, and perception is everything

if your your own man/company, then you can risk it, but if your a sub, then your stuck with the perceptions of what a DWC, H.O., painter, GC, spray guy or builder who thinks they know better than you, or so and so taper does his work this way.

I had a 3 day battle last week, with the DWC. To summarize my battle with him, he likes to brag to the builders that I'm one of the few tapers that never gets sent back to fix, but Now he wants me to tape like his other tapers:blink:

Plus some of it can be where you live. When I worked in Toronto, never pre-filled nothing, and it was 2 coat screws and beads, and no body checked nothing with a light (circa 2001). When I returned to London, we went from taping Gods to Hacks. They would shine flash lights down your walls, they have a certain standard the way everything should look.

I do get what your saying Moose boy, but lets say you go a 7 and 8 inch box to finish your work, and all is good. But if you came to where I live, they will say use a 12". Argue with them, they will void all responsibility of the house, and rest it upon your shoulders. Now if the roof leaks or a screw pops, it's all your fault, they will send you back to the house to fix, even if it's 2 years down the road


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> It's all about who is paying you, and perception is everything
> 
> if your your own man/company, then you can risk it, but if your a sub, then your stuck with the perceptions of what a DWC, H.O., painter, GC, spray guy or builder who thinks they know better than you, or so and so taper does his work this way.
> 
> ...


 Is that why you took the week off 2buck?? You letting them stew in it for a while? 

I'm in a simular situation with a g/c ..I don't need him ..He needs me. If my price hike for 2013 is too much for him... than.... 
They don't know how lucky they are to have a good sub That really cares about the trade untill they end up with one that doesn't .. Sometimes that's what it takes....If I lose a g/c ..I can pick up another..That simple!! :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> It's all about who is paying you, and perception is everything
> 
> if your your own man/company, then you can risk it, but if your a sub, then your stuck with the perceptions of what a DWC, H.O., painter, GC, spray guy or builder who thinks they know better than you, or so and so taper does his work this way.
> 
> ...


Thank goodness I don't work for anyone else.
There's nobody who monitors my work or tells me how to do things.
Contractors and GC's trust that I know what I'm doing and they pay me for my expertise. 
If they see me using a new product or trying a new method and are curious about it, I will be more than happy to explain the pro's and cons of both. 
I love what I do and I do it well. I'm not afraid to try new things and innovate on existing things.
If they want me to do something their method and I think it's not the best thing for the task at hand, well sorry, you do it my way or find someone else who will screw it up just the way you like it.
I do what I think is best for the job and the client.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Thank goodness I don't work for anyone else.
> There's nobody who monitors my work or tells me how to do things.
> Contractors and GC's trust that I know what I'm doing and they pay me for my expertise.
> If they see me using a new product or trying a new method and are curious about it, I will be more than happy to explain the pro's and cons of both.
> ...


I hear you, but there is a bit of a balancing act they half to do also. They can't have one guy using mesh tape, another wanting metal bead, one wanting a different type of mud and so on. They can have 20 crews their looking after, they want a uniform look . It's one of the reasons they prefer machine tapers. So I can understand why they want a bit of a universal look and material control.

But on the other hand, if your good, and your not getting sent back, and lets just say you can get away with 2 coats on the bead instead of 3, why should they care. They don't get it, were P/W's, were always looking for that faster better system, that cheat that will pass dare I say. So there is a point where they can cross the line. The line they crossed with me, is they want a level 4 finish for KD, minus one coat on the screws (minus sand on screws too). Over kill IMO, they have added more work to my plate. I know how to cheat the 12" box in, but the 2 coat screws.... nail spotter would make things worse, and they bitch that I use one already:furious:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I hear you, but there is a bit of a balancing act they half to do also. They can't have one guy using mesh tape, another wanting metal bead, one wanting a different type of mud and so on. They can have 20 crews their looking after, they want a uniform look . It's one of the reasons they prefer machine tapers. So I can understand why they want a bit of a universal look and material control.
> 
> But on the other hand, if your good, and your not getting sent back, and lets just say you can get away with 2 coats on the bead instead of 3, why should they care. They don't get it, were P/W's, were always looking for that faster better system, that cheat that will pass dare I say. So there is a point where they can cross the line. The line they crossed with me, is they want a level 4 finish for KD, minus one coat on the screws (minus sand on screws too). Over kill IMO, they have added more work to my plate. I know how to cheat the 12" box in, but the 2 coat screws.... nail spotter would make things worse, and they bitch that I use one already:furious:


 Ya wanna work 5 days a week ..or 8 days a week??
Get to work when you want:whistling2: Leave when you want.
And you can spot screws any good g/d way you want!!!:thumbsup:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

screw pops or screw pulls ? if the stud is bowed toward the room, you get a hollow pull on top and bottom. if its not, then you might end up with a pull in the center. where every ones eye level is at, includeing us. ask your framers to crown in- 12 pack is always a great incentive. but like anything else, the down side is, is it makes your fllats wider like a butt, cause its the high point of the wall when the(WOOD crown)after drying becomes more and more pronounced, the screw or nail becomes more visible.(POPPED) a site full of red headed step children trying to work out the parents fighting. ex- the lack of superior materials to work our blessed magic. or what ever. i have never had a pop or pull on a steel stud job-EVER


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## CatD7 (Jul 25, 2011)

Sounds like truss uplift. Google it.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> Because it's too easy to sand???


Yea it is that!! But throw in a few scoops of mean green u have some good sh*t!:yes:


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

VANMAN said:


> I really dont c the need for the 3 coats!! Just looking at them will tell me if they r filled or not!!!!


 I wanna workin scoland, do they have any alcohol there ?


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I hear you, but there is a bit of a balancing act they half to do also. They can't have one guy using mesh tape, another wanting metal bead, one wanting a different type of mud and so on. They can have 20 crews their looking after, they want a uniform look . It's one of the reasons they prefer machine tapers. So I can understand why they want a bit of a universal look and material control.
> 
> But on the other hand, if your good, and your not getting sent back, and lets just say you can get away with 2 coats on the bead instead of 3, why should they care. They don't get it, were P/W's, were always looking for that faster better system, that cheat that will pass dare I say. So there is a point where they can cross the line. The line they crossed with me, is they want a level 4 finish for KD, minus one coat on the screws (minus sand on screws too). Over kill IMO, they have added more work to my plate. I know how to cheat the 12" box in, but the 2 coat screws.... nail spotter would make things worse, and they bitch that I use one already:furious:


you can only cheat in tapeing if you have learned to dissove two coats into one, and that aint cheating, thats hard won -experience. blood sweat and tear. never cared much for a man to tell me to do, whet he was incapable of it- his self. any way moma gonna box yer ears in acouple of hours. " no wonder your to tired to go to service, work hard all week, and even on the sabath. and then dwt.com:thumbup:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

harvey randall said:


> I wanna workin scoland, do they have any alcohol there ?


Not alot left Harve,I drank it all!!!


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Still stand by 3 coats on the screws. Been to too many jobs that were rushed and only 2 coats were put on and there is a slight dimple on every dang screw head. I point up every job we do and there *IS* a difference. Believe it is just a matter of what one will tolerate.


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