# can excessive coats of paint in one day cause my taping joints and screws to show?



## john (Feb 16, 2012)

<P>the walls were prepared for level 4 finish and looked great.  the painter painted, in one day, all 3 of his coats of paint(using a spray rig). now all the screws and joints are telegraphing through.  is this because he soaked the walls wet and the drywall is now saturated?  does anyone have literature on this or can help with an answer?</P>


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Heres a little something John.http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new%20construction/nail_pops.html 

I think your right. They saturated the board ..Go to Paint talk and ask about it ..Those guys are sharp..I want to hear what they have ta say about this myself..I have painters ask me... how much do you cut your mud down on your skim coat?? I ask them..How much do you cut your paint down when you spray ?

If you dig through Paint source You'll find an answer I hope..Iv'e seen this happen before..but only when the painters spray ,spray, spray...IMO...if they roll the primer /sealer on then let dry ..after that they can spray paint all they want..It should'nt hurt anything for the board has been sealed.. Worky may tear me apart for saying this ,,but I'm no painter ..just a common sense opinion ...well...Makes sense ta me anyway..


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## Drywaller (Jun 15, 2008)

It sounds exactly why it happened,This happened to me once.
The bigshot painter came in by himself with a huge sprayer and saturated my drywall and never opened a window or ventilated at allI,Its no different than someone spraying water on the drywall and wonder why things look bad,Butt joints where crowning down and bulging out after a few hours.This painter was a real a-hole and did dilute alot of water his paint.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

john said:


> <P>the walls were prepared for level 4 finish and looked great.  the painter painted, in one day, all 3 of his coats of paint(using a spray rig). now all the screws and joints are telegraphing through.  is this because he soaked the walls wet and the drywall is now saturated?  does anyone have literature on this or can help with an answer?</P>


That is a bloody good question John, I reckon it does have an affect but I have no proof to support that. Moisture will definitely cause problems, and there's moiture in paint sooooo....
Where's 2buck, he likes painters at the moment maybe he could grab one by the throat and ask him :whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> That is a bloody good question John, I reckon it does have an affect but I have no proof to support that. Moisture will definitely cause problems, and there's moiture in paint sooooo....
> Where's 2buck, he likes painters at the moment maybe he could grab one by the throat and ask him :whistling2:


 I wouldn't mind grabbing a couple by the throat myself.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Im a painter and to be honest i have never seen this happen, Its all rollers and brushes here, So you cant thin out the paint to much for that, I got into the 21st century and do some spraying, So sealer coat is thinned a little to make it easier to spray then i load the walls/ceilings to hell, This creates a level 5ish and i prob use 25% more sealer, Then this gets a pole or pc sand, Then i have sprayed 2 finish coats on ceilings and rolled two top coats an walls, It works out great, This thinning the sealer to piss and swelling the mud carry on wouldnt be too good at all, I hadnt heard or known it could happen till i read about on here.


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## 2buckcanuckjr. (Apr 28, 2011)

I would seriously whoop that painters ass. It will make anyones tape show through...too much moisture will bring the tape out... Like taping flats then boxing out while tape is wet. Imo


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

He painted 3 coats in one day!? :blink: That's hacked...
Of course that's what happened! That's so much moisture....
I do allot of painting too and thats just massive amounts of moisture! Especially spraying! If he back rolls it might not be as bad....but still! 3 coats in a day!? No way....not good.
Im surprised your tapes aren't falling off the walls or bubbling.

Like "Drywaller" said "Its no different than someone spraying water on the drywall" 

At the very most i'll prime, give it a quick pre sand, roll all my ceilings, then roll all my walls, but not cut the walls in. And that's a long day! Depending on the size of the house. Most of the time i'll be happy with just priming everything and rolling out my ceilings.
That way the next morning I can roll all my ceilings again (roll them tight to the wall so you don't need to cut the ceilings in)
Then i'll cut my walls up to my now finished ceilings, roll the walls again and then cut again. Done and done. That's my order.

Not all of that in one day!! That's insane...there must have been so much humidity on the windows and doors..


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I dont think its the 3 coats in one day. Its the moisture issue and type of paint. 3 coats in a Long day is do able with a pva primer or alcohol based shellac (binz). Then followed by 2 coats of Swp promar 400. The key here would be to ventilate and have optimal inside and outside conditions. Though i dont recomend it. I have been 3 coating condos in 1 day for the last month with no drywall issues. Not that i want to do it that way its just the scheduling and the walls and ceilings all get the same coler eggshell finish with stained trim. So far all walls look flat and passes as a level 4 finish. I also have unlimited heat, fans and dehumidifiers on hand. Wouldnt even think about it without.
As for what happened here is the painter probly used a finish paint (flat) for a primer with out backrolling then went and sprayed finish on without the so called primer being dry or cured. Tell the painter to smarten up and not screw up your finish product by creating a moisture storm. Then go out and get a sprayer and do your own priming.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

boco said:


> I dont think its the 3 coats in one day. Its the moisture issue and type of paint. 3 coats in a Long day is do able with a pva primer or alcohol based shellac (binz). Then followed by 2 coats of Swp promar 400. The key here would be to ventilate and have optimal inside and outside conditions. Though i dont recomend it. I have been 3 coating condos in 1 day for the last month with no drywall issues. Not that i want to do it that way its just the scheduling and the walls and ceilings all get the same coler eggshell finish with stained trim. So far all walls look flat and passes as a level 4 finish. I also have unlimited heat, fans and dehumidifiers on hand. Wouldnt even think about it without.
> As for what happened here is the painter probly used a finish paint (flat) for a primer with out backrolling then went and sprayed finish on without the so called primer being dry or cured. Tell the painter to smarten up and not screw up your finish product by creating a moisture storm. Then go out and get a sprayer and do your own priming.


Well ya. I agree with you 100%
Im sure it's not a problem if you have all the appropriate conditions like you do. Heat, fans and dehumidifiers will make a huge difference!

Im just assuming this guy didn't have any of that because of what's happening.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

john said:


> <P>the walls were prepared for level 4 finish and looked great.  the painter painted, in one day, all 3 of his coats of paint(using a spray rig). now all the screws and joints are telegraphing through.  is this because he soaked the walls wet and the drywall is now saturated?  does anyone have literature on this or can help with an answer?</P>


You have 2 problems.

Using a spray rig, the odds increase that he could of watered his paint down too much, or applied to much paint. Using a roller will draw paint back out from the drywall paper, but if he only sprayed, it can swell the paper. So in one part, we need to know if he just sprayed, or did he roll behind the spray machine.

Second part is when did he rough sand in between coats. The prime coat is meant to be sanded so the walls will become one blended texture. This has been discussed on here before, but the general consensus was to roll or spray on the primer, then back roll, and rough sand when dry. The only person who disagreed with this method was Cazna the clean, but the Captain would have my back on this issue if he were here ,,,,,,, So







Cazna.


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

Did it go away after the walls dried?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Did it go away after the walls dried?


maybe it's still drying


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> maybe it's still drying


Could be 3 coats in a day is a lot my guess is he is not sanding between coats.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> You have 2 problems.
> 
> Using a spray rig, the odds increase that he could of watered his paint down too much, or applied to much paint. Using a roller will draw paint back out from the drywall paper, but if he only sprayed, it can swell the paper. So in one part, we need to know if he just sprayed, or did he roll behind the spray machine.
> 
> ...


The only thing i disagreed on was tearing the backside out of primer with course sandpaper, Primer/sealer always needs sanded/blended, Just not torn to shreds, If its cut then the first top coat soaks in uneven, Bad bad bad. :yes:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cazna said:


> Im a painter and to be honest i have never seen this happen,


That means you are doing it right :thumbsup:


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## john (Feb 16, 2012)

*ho hum...*

So heres the deal, painting yahoo wanted to get in front of the ceiling tile guy, so whats he do??? he sprays on his primer, which by the way is Prep-Seal, whether he pissed it down i have no idea, but he did back roll. he did three classrooms (school) with huge windows that show natural light right across the walls, then went right into spraying his first coat of finish just as he did the primer. upon completing that he went right into his final coat, of semi gloss!!!! needless to say, they will be paying for us to fix it. they admitted that they blew it, and they knew it. after it dried, some of the badness went away, however there was still some blistering and joints photgraphing through, and screws look like there missing a coat. again they finished with semigloss which is a total F.U. because of the window glare and only a level 4 speced out for the school. at those high visibilty areas it should have been level 5, although that wouldn't matter do to the flood that occured on the walls. oh yah i should mention, it was raining like nobodys business and they did not use any means of drying, plus the windows were open, morans!!!!!


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## Collin (Dec 22, 2011)

cazna said:


> The only thing i disagreed on was tearing the backside out of primer with course sandpaper, Primer/sealer always needs sanded/blended, Just not torn to shreds, If its cut then the first top coat soaks in uneven, Bad bad bad. :yes:


what grit of sandpaper do you use


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Collin said:


> what grit of sandpaper do you use


220, 180, at the lowest 150, But i would wear that down first, Sealer/primer should just be smoothed, Not cut up, Thats how flashing will occur, Your first top coat shouldnt soak in.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

well it is one of those situations that yes the applications were to many at once, 

You did not mention if it was old board as crews pop and the wall is a freaking mess

I just scraped down a house old board and leme tell ya fellers you would not believe how much smig was laying on the ground when I scraped those screws, 3 coat skim entire walls

Shoulda had Caz here to show me how it's done

no back roll is crazee
another school day where there is Sh^t to pay


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

john said:


> So heres the deal, painting yahoo wanted to get in front of the ceiling tile guy, so whats he do??? he sprays on his primer, which by the way is Prep-Seal, whether he pissed it down i have no idea, but he did back roll. he did three classrooms (school) with huge windows that show natural light right across the walls, then went right into spraying his first coat of finish just as he did the primer. upon completing that he went right into his final coat, of semi gloss!!!! needless to say, they will be paying for us to fix it. they admitted that they blew it, and they knew it. after it dried, some of the badness went away, however there was still some blistering and joints photgraphing through, and screws look like there missing a coat. again they finished with semigloss which is a total F.U. because of the window glare and only a level 4 speced out for the school. at those high visibilty areas it should have been level 5, although that wouldn't matter do to the flood that occured on the walls. oh yah i should mention, it was raining like nobodys business and they did not use any means of drying, plus the windows were open, morans!!!!!


IMO,This is when you as a tradesman tell the next sub what the deal is--the painter needed balls to tell the next guy in line plus the super running the job the way it is--PERIOD!!! I spray and backroll nearly every job we do and the proper way is 1 coat primer sprayed -backrolled-set for that day- polesanded[we use blackwidow sander] the next day for the painter. NEVER and I mean NEVER apply 2 coats when spraying and backrolling--you,ll get nothing but tons of holidays because you didnt sand between coats!!!!!:furious:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

DSJOHN said:


> IMO,This is when you as a tradesman tell the next sub what the deal is--the painter needed balls to tell the next guy in line plus the super running the job the way it is--PERIOD!!! I spray and backroll nearly every job we do and the proper way is 1 coat primer sprayed -backrolled-set for that day- polesanded[we use blackwidow sander] the next day for the painter. NEVER and I mean NEVER apply 2 coats when spraying and backrolling--you,ll get nothing but tons of holidays because you didnt sand between coats!!!!!:furious:


 
When spraying and backrolling are you right behind the sprayer with the roller, You must be or it spikes up the paint to hell, Then its horrable to sand, Same as finish coating ceilings, Backrolling can be a mess if your not hard up the sprayer, Backrolling isnt something i have done much of as im mostly a one man crew, So if you have the sprayer out, Then mask up, Then spray, then grab a roller, Two man job, Why not just use a power roller and half the labour?? and loose the masking hassel?? Have you or worky used a power roller?? I just got one but havent tryed it yet.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

cazna said:


> When spraying and backrolling are you right behind the sprayer with the roller, You must be or it spikes up the paint to hell, Then its horrable to sand, Same as finish coating ceilings, Backrolling can be a mess if your not hard up the sprayer, Backrolling isnt something i have done much of as im mostly a one man crew, So if you have the sprayer out, Then mask up, Then spray, then grab a roller, Two man job, Why not just use a power roller and half the labour?? and loose the masking hassel?? Have you or worky used a power roller?? I just got one but havent tryed it yet.


Caz--You pretty much said youre a one man crew-- spraying and backrolling an entire house is a two man job-if you want it done right and make money, you cant backroll immediately either , I would guess 2 minutes after i shoot an area my helper starts up the rolling process, too early and the material slides all over the place-- I use a widespray tip[1221] and backroll with an eighteen roller!!:thumbsup:


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## Majorbean (Apr 14, 2012)

Ive been painting homes for 10 years as a one man crew with great success. I spray everything but always, always backroll. Spray a little , roll it, spray, roll. I can finish a 1500sq.ft. home in 4days, most rooms dif colours. I just did a commercial job where the used a really dark colour and made the same mistake. sprayed primer, rolled, went for lunch (heaters cranked) and then broke out the finish. Next day i second coat. At end of day i could see all my buts and nail fills ( i drywall too). Although the primer feels dry on the surface, your pump out 10gals of moisture in a couple hours, that moisture is still there under the dry surface. Ill never start finish coat again on same day.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Todays job. Wanted to get 3 coats on asap. Government job and only have a 2 day window. First coat was Binz. Didnt dry all that well because we forgot shut off air conditioner. Waited an hour sanded then applied another coat of finish. Wanted to put finish coat on but walls were still wet. So we went home. End of story


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I have sprayed and back rolled many of houses solo. Its a lot of work but when you want it done right. I use a 517 tip and a 1095 graco. Basically spray entire wall then roll entire wall. If you cant spray a entire wall and wait a few minutes before rolling theres to much heat or not enough paint. Except for any greeen or blue board. Spray the wall , roll the wall then respray (double prime). I also use an 18" roller (1/2 nap wooster gold stripe.) Preprite 200 primer.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

These pics are from a home I turned down back in the early fall.
I was busy ..The framing was a cluster..The h/o ordered the wallboard before calling me [all pro rock] plus It was a 500 boarder..so I gave her the names of two of the best d/c in cental Va. Both of there bids were close..very fair for that type of home imo....But they find the low baller ,,or I should say the low baller found her..His price was close to the other two ,,but It included a spray prme on the entire home [ I know this bible thumpin hack ,and theres a reason why I didn't throw his name at her]

The primer was sprayed heavy to the point where it pooled , runs etc,,, no back roll .. EVERY seam in this home has peaked/crowned/humped how ever ya want to desribe it...Looks like chit..Was not a sandable prime it has a shine to it..:blink: 

His finish was not good ..Then he soaks the house down with a water hose basicly .. ALL the feild screws are sunkin..Like they were only coated once. 

I love these guys!!!! GOOD FOR BUISINESS .:yes: 

The reason I'm there fixin The worst areas ,,and doing touch up behind the trim/floor guy is cause she run the hack off..


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

That first pic.... the ceiling is done. She said after she hangs the shades @ curtains maybe It won't look so bad


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

moore said:


> That first pic.... the ceiling is done. She said after she hangs the shades @ curtains maybe It won't look so bad


lol

Always good to remove the light bulbs and get the check at dusk.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> These pics are from a home I turned down back in the early fall.
> I was busy ..The framing was a cluster..The h/o ordered the wallboard before calling me [all pro rock] plus It was a 500 boarder..so I gave her the names of two of the best d/c in cental Va. Both of there bids were close..very fair for that type of home imo....But they find the low baller ,,or I should say the low baller found her..His price was close to the other two ,,but It included a spray prme on the entire home [ I know this bible thumpin hack ,and theres a reason why I didn't throw his name at her]
> 
> The primer was sprayed heavy to the point where it pooled , runs etc,,, no back roll .. EVERY seam in this home has peaked/crowned/humped how ever ya want to desribe it...Looks like chit..Was not a sandable prime it has a shine to it..:blink:
> ...


Wow man, that is really bad. Like most on here find, it's hard to judge some things in photographs, since most camera's don't show detail so well. So that must look even worse in person:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Wow man, that is really bad. Like most on here find, it's hard to judge some things in photographs, since most camera's don't show detail so well. So that must look even worse in person:blink:


 It looks Stupid bad..The WHOLE house!! I can't see how the man can sleep at night.


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

moore said:


> It looks Stupid bad..The WHOLE house!! I can't see how the man can sleep at night.


He don't sleep he still working
I would say he's still running on the hamster wheel

He's priming did this. Maybe
But I would say he use a 14 inch super crown trowel. One coat
He bought @ the dollar store


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

Also. Was the attic insulation blowin inn when he did the finishing on the ceilings 
I know some builders try to rush things. Or home owners not realizing that soon as you put heat in when drying your mud. You better have insulation in the attic in cold whether Summer your ok you don't heat the house when mudding


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Newagestucco said:


> Also. Was the attic insulation blowin inn when he did the finishing on the ceilings
> I know some builders try to rush things. Or home owners not realizing that soon as you put heat in when drying your mud. You better have insulation in the attic in cold whether Summer your ok you don't heat the house when mudding


 Your right about the insulation..and this home was hung and finished in the dead of winter..But It's every seam in the house upstairs,,downstairs ,, ceilings,,walls ..The butt joints are unreal!
The bathroom pic is a 54 top sheet ,and a stand-up on the bottom..


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

lol.  its not really funny )
I was thinking about the but joints earlier ,when I first read your post
If the flats are bad. Ouch the butts like you said. Must be. Real bad

Just from the pics it's real terrible I never Seen anything like it to that extreme.
Been call in on jobs before where we rip everything down and start over but it's usually only at the rock stage. Not like this

You think the really over did the spraying to get it looking like this 
I think in this case. It might of played a big factor. + ****y workmanship


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

Another sudjustion. 

Maybe they tape and coated the same day. Lack of heat 

Now that I think about it I did fix a house something like this one 3 years ago 
I spent a month re doing everything the home owner was complaint it took me a month. I laugh. And take the light out and show more. He'd walk away and say please fix every thing. The house was trash from top to bottom big house
And I hate fixing over paint you always get we call them fish eyes.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Newagestucco said:


> lol.  its not really funny )
> I was thinking about the but joints earlier ,when I first read your post
> If the flats are bad. Ouch the butts like you said. Must be. Real bad
> 
> ...


Yes Sir...I was thinking the same thing..Far as I can tell there was no sanding or very little before the prime was sprayed..The real funny thing is ..This d/c braggs about how he is the only one around that does a true level 5 .. all the others are behind the times :blink: get this..He tapes all his angles by hand [ knifed in] ,,and you guys call me old school! 

I am knockin this guy and that's not like me...builders/painters/d/c / h/o that I've spoken to have nearly cursed me for even mentioning his name.. oh.. This is not the first time I have gone behind his work..Sometimes they just want me to look at the issues and give my advice on how or if it can be fixed... If he's reading this I DON'T CARE... every time we meet he acts arrogant ...I am friends with most of the other d/c in this area ..but this guy gets my sheep.


This home was framed up for 2 years before ready for rock..


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

moore said:


> Yes Sir...I was thinking the same thing..Far as I can tell there was no sanding or very little before the prime was sprayed..The real funny thing is ..This d/c braggs about how he is the only one around that does a true level 5 .. all the others are behind the times :blink: get this..He tapes all his angles by hand [ knifed in] ,,and you guys call me old school!
> 
> I am knockin this guy and that's not like me...builders/painters/d/c / h/o that I've spoken to have nearly cursed me for even mentioning his name.. oh.. This is not the first time I have gone behind his work..Sometimes they just want me to look at the issues and give my advice on how or if it can be fixed... If he's reading this I DON'T CARE... every time we meet he acts arrogant ...I am friends with most of the other d/c in this area ..but this guy gets my sheep.


Keep some pics in your truck
Next time you run in to him he acts arrogant pull them out
And start laughing 

Tell you that house I fix 3 years ago I made sure everyone new
They though they did a good job. Maybe in there eyes
I went to the same supply store he uses 
Every couple of days I go get mud. In the morning at the order desk 
A lot of contractors are there in the morning 
I would say ya am fixing one he'll of a hack job. then I mention the house. Well let me tell you At the end of the month everyone new
I'm really not that kind of person but I hate fixing **** and theses guy try and get away with it


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