# Trained vs Un Trained?



## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Went to LA Saturday and spent my first night in Santa Clarita, CA in a Hampton Inn. My second night I reserved a room in Lancaster, CA because it got me to the outskirts of LA. Lancaster is a Charter city and this claim allows them to negotiate labor contracts not at the prevailing union wage for their region. The construction standards were so poor I was shocked it spilled over into a Hilton brand. What's worse is why didn't the inspectors catch this? Laugh all you want about me being union but it clearly has an affect on standards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaQqm9I2oR0


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Hope u got hold of the manager and got a free stay!:thumbsup:
Don't bother coming to the UK as u would never stop filming the chit work over here!:blink:


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

Conformance becomes performance ... the bar keeps getting lower and lower. How low can it go?


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> Went to LA Saturday and spent my first night in Santa Clarita, CA in a Hampton Inn. My second night I reserved a room in Lancaster, CA because it got me to the outskirts of LA. Lancaster is a Charter city and this claim allows them to negotiate labor contracts not at the prevailing union wage for their region. The construction standards were so poor I was shocked it spilled over into a Hilton brand. What's worse is why didn't the inspectors catch this? Laugh all you want about me being union but it clearly has an affect on standards.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaQqm9I2oR0


What I saw in the video doesn't have anything to do with union/ non-union.As a framer/carpenter you are taught about regulations... if you don't follow them.... another story, nobody to blame but yourself. 
Before inspectors, the work done should've been checked by supervisor... who obviously has missed a lot like the inspector. 

I'm an union guy and I see this every day but 100% doesn't pass inspection. 

you are on the union side .... but on this particular thread you're not right...standards should be there regardless


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

keke said:


> What I saw in the video doesn't have anything to do with union/ non-union.As a framer/carpenter you are taught about regulations... if you don't follow them.... another story, nobody to blame but yourself.
> Before inspectors, the work done should've been checked by supervisor... who obviously has missed a lot like the inspector.
> 
> I'm an union guy and I see this every day but 100% doesn't pass inspection.
> ...


Apples vs Oranges because in the US vocational training is not state sponsored. Our government doesn't support unions like yours. Our unions survive because without them we'd have the lower standards I posted. It's easy to complain about government programs. Here, 90% of secondary vocational training is union sponsored even though non union associations like the AGC receive more funding from the 1% than unions combined to spread their beat down the working class message.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Over here as a tradesman I can take on an apprentice. The apprenticeship is four years in duration, and the apprentice is required to attend trade school for a one week period every month for three years. The student is required to complete and pass all of the units at trade school. The fourth year is on the job only, no school.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Here an apprentice must complete 4 years or 4800 work hours and attend 144 hours of classroom training per year. This applies to programs both union and non union. Although a majority are union here even though non union trade associations receive more funding. This is to assure proper training and the beat down of our working class. Keep in mind that these outlines are for private programs and not state run. The US does not support unions like other industrialized nations.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

California. Hecho en Mexico.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

No training for this job here, But all other trades its a bit like what Gaz said.


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## gopherstateguy (Apr 8, 2012)

I got my training on the job every day. I'm not union. Nothing against it just never tried it, If I wanted a raise, I would have to master a new skill or tool. I learned from my boss and co-workers and our company has always been quality first. Four years into the trade I hung, taped, finished, and sanded my sister's home. That was in 1997. She still lives there and when I visit it still looks great. My point is you don't need a formal apprenticeship to do quality work.


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## Miss.mud'n'paint (Jul 7, 2016)

I've worked for the same general contractor since 2004 and I learned from a retired union drywall guy. He was willing to work with all of us and would like to think I learned from one of the best.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

gopherstateguy said:


> I got my training on the job every day. I'm not union. Nothing against it just never tried it, If I wanted a raise, I would have to master a new skill or tool. I learned from my boss and co-workers and our company has always been quality first. Four years into the trade I hung, taped, finished, and sanded my sister's home. That was in 1997. She still lives there and when I visit it still looks great. My point is you don't need a formal apprenticeship to do quality work.


Quality work and regulation are 2 different things....... MrWillys points up the regulation things mainly.......on the site you don't learn properly you just pick up pieces but if you want to know where you stand in case of problem you have to go to school to learn proper way

I have a question for you and everybody like you....Would you leave for example, a plumber who's not qualified to run a pipe of gas in your house?


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## gopherstateguy (Apr 8, 2012)

In my area we have inspections(government) for framing, electrical, plumbing, etc. Electricians and plumbers get schooling. The only area you question that effects me personally is fire code items which also need to pass inspection.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Where there are blatant code violations, you have to pass that back on to the General Contractor and building inspectors for not catching it. And as for bad workmanship, that goes back to the General Contractor for accepting bad quality and for choosing bad subcontractors to do the work.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

keke said:


> Quality work and regulation are 2 different things....... MrWillys points up the regulation things mainly.......on the site you don't learn properly you just pick up pieces but if you want to know where you stand in case of problem you have to go to school to learn proper way
> 
> I have a question for you and everybody like you....Would you leave for example, a plumber who's not qualified to run a pipe of gas in your house?





gopherstateguy said:


> In my area we have inspections(government) for framing, electrical, plumbing, etc. Electricians and plumbers get schooling. The only area you question that effects me personally is fire code items which also need to pass inspection.


 Gopher, I do not fault anyone for being union or non union as others here do. Had you been an apprentice where I'm from you would have been trained about the Gypsum Association and different levels of finish as well as the Fire design manual. While I agree one can be competent as long as they stay residential as a drywaller.

Keke, funny that you and I disagree considering how similar our backgrounds are? IE: I had my Jeep body sandblasted once and followed the PPG paperwork to the letter and shot it with DP 90 epoxy and then did the putty work followed by a primer of k200. 6 months later PPG changed their paperwork to say k200 cannot be used over DP 90. Was this a craftsmanship issue or regulation? They clearly are both intertwined. I joined the union as a journeyman and never went through a formal apprenticeship because my dad said it was a waste of time. In the 1990's I went to college with a focus on Construction Inspection that helped tie what I was doing in the field together for a better understanding that made me better.

Here in the US they passed a law called the American's with Disabilities Act or ADA. All commercial drywallers need an understanding of this as well as Door, Ceiling and fire rating requirements. A majority of large construction projects in the US are union because Non union simply can't man the job with competent people. Rick, PA and TF simply don't have enough of their misclassified employees as contractors to get the job done so the big boys get it done and leave the shacks to the untrained.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> California. Hecho en Mexico.


California is 37.6% Hispanic and Colorado is 30%. I do not fault race for lower quality but you think whatever you need to justify your bigotry?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

MrWillys said:


> keke said:
> 
> 
> > Quality work and regulation are 2 different things....... MrWillys points up the regulation things mainly.......on the site you don't learn properly you just pick up pieces but if you want to know where you stand in case of problem you have to go to school to learn proper way
> ...


Yep guess I should pull off this hotel I'm doing lol... might not have enough guys. And what about my guys are misclassified? I have hourly W2 guys and I have subcontract 1099 guys who get paid by the board. I turn in 1099's every year for those guys based on their tax id #. As far as I know they pay their taxes as I don't hear otherwise. Where I live there are are probably 10 apartment complexes going up with several hundred thousand sheets each. Nothing but residential Drywall guys in there getting paid by the board. Never seen an hourly Drywall guy work very hard... you want to see some board get hung then come hang out with my crew. Easy 1000 sheets a week with a 3 man crew..


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

thefinisher said:


> Yep guess I should pull off this hotel I'm doing lol... might not have enough guys. And what about my guys are misclassified? I have hourly W2 guys and I have subcontract 1099 guys who get paid by the board. I turn in 1099's every year for those guys based on their tax id #. As far as I know they pay their taxes as I don't hear otherwise. Where I live there are are probably 10 apartment complexes going up with several hundred thousand sheets each. Nothing but residential Drywall guys in there getting paid by the board. Never seen an hourly Drywall guy work very hard... you want to see some board get hung then come hang out with my crew. Easy 1000 sheets a week with a 3 man crew..


My mistake TF, do you frame to or is this hotel wood framed?


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Why do you have to be like that Scott, labeling people?
I'm confused here, how did you become a journeyman 
without formal training?


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm not labeling anyone. I am pointing out why it is called organized labor. We able to draw from a much larger pool and move people around the country as needed. take the Tesla Gigafactory for example. It's being built in a right to starve state but is using union Carpenters and Electricians. My neighbor is a steam fitter there. Elon is against unions for his people but knows a large construction project requires a large labor force.
As for myself, My brother went through apprenticeship where they meet twice a week and the guy who brought the beer got an A. I took a letter to the union and joined as a journeyman. They just paid me less hours per week. After 2 years I got 50% of the split. In the early 80's the union placed a new focus on training. Students now go for 36 hours 4 times a year and I had to get my teaching credential through a University program. I learned to lower the difficulty of learning and how we all learn in different ways.
This is what I created this week.
http://scotthansen.net/data2

And my website and domain are now back on American soil. bye bye Yahoo


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## gopherstateguy (Apr 8, 2012)

I am fully aware of and understand levels of finish. I also believe I could thrive in a commercial environment if I chose to do so.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Heck no. We pretty much only deal in residential. Mainly because it pays quicker and it generally more cut and dry. We only do a few smaller commercial jobs a year. We are so busy with residential now that I don't want to deal with anything else.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

thefinisher said:


> Heck no. We pretty much only deal in residential. Mainly because it pays quicker and it generally more cut and dry. We only do a few smaller commercial jobs a year. We are so busy with residential now that I don't want to deal with anything else.


 Managing men was always my biggest challenge and dealing with different personalities and ways to motivate them. The 2 best pieces of advice I received over the years was that it doesn't matter how much I get done but how much the men got done? Next, was to keep my bags on as there's a perception I'm not doing anything without them? 

TF, I'm glad to hear you have employees and it tells me you're a manager. While it was an easy decision to retire at 52 and draw my pension. It was also somewhat a selfish one in that I no longer have to manage but hold a wealth of knowledge of the craft. Contractors who have no employees are making a trade off of being a little selfish and not having to manage people.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> California is 37.6% Hispanic and Colorado is 30%. I do not fault race for lower quality but you think whatever you need to justify your bigotry?


What do you mean by Hispanic? Do you mean illegal immigrant? Do you mean legal citizen of he United States with Hispanic heritage? Two completely different groups of people. Absurd to put them together under one title. I am not making any kind of racial statement. But the race to replace American born workers who prefer fair treatment and compensation, with immigrants who cannot effectively demand such treatment has lowered the quality of construction. And of course it has lowered labor costs. But let's not complain. Let's look at the bright side. It has never been a better time t be a rich member of the leisure class.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Luckily I don't have any issues with my 1099 guys getting stuff done. They need something every day except Sunday. My hourly guys I have to get on to. But I know when and where they clock in and how long they were at each job. Easy to see who is being productive.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> What do you mean by Hispanic? Do you mean illegal immigrant? Do you mean legal citizen of he United States with Hispanic heritage? Two completely different groups of people. Absurd to put them together under one title.


You and I have similar views on illegal immigration and both sides of politics do nothing but one claims to be against it but takes no action. I worked for a guy who had me E-Verify all new hires. I thought it was a great thing. I doubt anything will ever be done because it would create a recession.

I also don't mind California bias as it is the greatest state in the nation and produces the highest tax revenue. Hispanic is anyone from a Spanish or Portuguese ancestry and Latino is a Hispanic from the America's. Remember, It was you that painted the statement to berate California with a broad brush. Colorado is a very liberal state and very similar to CA.

Did you read the study today about those on SS disability? Highest % is WV and Southern states.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> You and I have similar views on illegal immigration and both sides of politics do nothing but one claims to be against it but takes no action. I worked for a guy who had me E-Verify all new hires. I thought it was a great thing. I doubt anything will ever be done because it would create a recession.
> 
> I also don't mind California bias as it is the greatest state in the nation and produces the highest tax revenue. Hispanic is anyone from a Spanish or Portuguese ancestry and Latino is a Hispanic from the America's. Remember, It was you that painted the statement to berate California with a broad brush. Colorado is a very liberal state and very similar to CA.
> 
> Did you read the study today about those on SS disability? Highest % is WV and Southern states.


First off, Portuguese don't speak Spanish usually. Brazilians are not Hispanic. Though I have heard them called Latino. (But who cares) My point is that it is absurd most of the time to group American citizens who happen to be of Hispanic heritage, and think they have much at all in common with those Hispanic people who arrive illegally. American citizens of any background, creed or racial heritage have more in common with each other than those who are here illegally, in culture, upbringing and language. I have heard many Americans of Hispanic heritage speak against open borders and illegal immigration. And I am not berating the latter group. I don't berate anybody who wants to work and better themselves. But any more around here the majority of the contracting companies are illegal. And many produce work that looks like the photo that started this post. Many mistreat their help. Hence my snarky comment.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> California. Hecho en Mexico.





endo_alley said:


> First off, Portuguese don't speak Spanish usually. Brazilians are not Hispanic. Though I have heard them called Latino. (But who cares) My point is that it is absurd most of the time to group American citizens who happen to be of Hispanic heritage, and think they have much at all in common with those Hispanic people who arrive illegally. American citizens of any background, creed or racial heritage have more in common with each other than those who are here illegally, in culture, upbringing and language. I have heard many Americans of Hispanic heritage speak against open borders and illegal immigration. And I am not berating the latter group. I don't berate anybody who wants to work and better themselves. But any more around here the majority of the contracting companies are illegal. And many produce work that looks like the photo that started this post. Many mistreat their help. Hence my snarky comment.


 In the future should you wish to engage in debate with me I expect a higher level of understanding of the subject matter. It only takes a few minutes to brush up and making false claims only makes you lose face.

_Hispanic_ originally referred to the people of ancient Roman Hispania, which roughly comprised the Iberian Peninsula including the contemporary states of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

Hence, a majority of Brazilians are in fact Latino. However, approx. 80% of African slaves taken by the Portuguese were taken to Brazil. Which begs the question of why Anglo Saxons have been persecuted for slave trading? Yes, they allowed it to occur on US and European soil it was the Hispanic's who did the actual deed.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> In the future should you wish to engage in debate with me I expect a higher level of understanding of the subject matter. It only takes a few minutes to brush up and making false claims only makes you lose face.
> 
> _Hispanic_ originally referred to the people of ancient Roman Hispania, which roughly comprised the Iberian Peninsula including the contemporary states of Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar.
> 
> ...


"According to Michael C. Cook, responsible for the US Census Bureau public affairs and media relations, the US Census Bureau does not intend “to classify people of Portuguese origin as Hispanic,” in 2020.

In a statement reacting to an article published by the Washington Examiner, Cook remarked, “We have received calls about this topic over the past week or so and this rumor is NOT true.”

Cook added, “Again, there are no plans to count Portuguese Americans as Hispanic in 2020. The Census Bureau follows the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) definition of Hispanic origin: A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spansh culture or origin, regardless of race.”


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Pew Research Group- WHO IS HISPANIC
" In 1976, the U.S. Congress passed the only law in this country’s history that mandated the collection and analysis of data for a specific ethnic group: “Americans of Spanish origin or descent.” The language of that legislation described this group as “Americans who identify themselves as being of Spanish-speaking background and trace their origin or descent from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America and other Spanish-speaking countries.” Standards for collecting data on Hispanics were developed by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in 1977 and revised in 1997. Using these standards, schools, public health facilities and other government entities and agencies keep track of how many Hispanics they serve (which was a primary goal of the 1976 law)."

My point that even under this definition there is no unified identity. An American born citizen may, and probably will have different political interests than a person who has immigrated.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> "According to Michael C. Cook, responsible for the US Census Bureau public affairs and media relations, the US Census Bureau does not intend “to classify people of Portuguese origin as Hispanic,” in 2020.
> 
> In a statement reacting to an article published by the Washington Examiner, Cook remarked, “We have received calls about this topic over the past week or so and this rumor is NOT true.”
> 
> Cook added, “Again, there are no plans to count Portuguese Americans as Hispanic in 2020. The Census Bureau follows the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) definition of Hispanic origin: A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spansh culture or origin, regardless of race.”


 I will grant you our government does look at them different for whatever reason. I grew up around a bunch of Portuguese hangars and tapers. I was told that if they're an immigrant they're a minority but their kids are not if born here. What's even weirder is Italian is a Latin based language and are not included in Hispania. I actually study Latin history and Catholicism and I'm not religious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Americans

In the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries they were better seafarers than even the British.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> I will grant you our government does look at them different for whatever reason. I grew up around a bunch of Portuguese hangars and tapers. I was told that if they're an immigrant they're a minority but their kids are not if born here. What's even weirder is Italian is a Latin based language and are not included in Hispania. I actually study Latin history and Catholicism and I'm not religious.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Americans
> 
> In the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries they were better seafarers than even the British.



Anyhow, it isn't really that important a point in this argument. I know a lot of immigrant people. And I also know a lot of children of those immigrants. And the kids don't seem to have many ties to the countries that their folks came from. Even less if it is grand parents. Their ties are to the USA. And to USA culture. So when I hear something like Latino vote, or Hispanic vote, I don't see a unified group. A fourth generation American of Cuban ancestry has little in common with an immigrant from Honduras or Guatemala.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley said:


> Anyhow, it isn't really that important a point in this argument. I know a lot of immigrant people. And I also know a lot of children of those immigrants. And the kids don't seem to have many ties to the countries that their folks came from. Even less if it is grand parents. Their ties are to the USA. And to USA culture. So when I hear something like Latino vote, or Hispanic vote, I don't see a unified group. A fourth generation American of Cuban ancestry has little in common with an immigrant from Honduras or Guatemala.


To an extent what say rings somewhat true. However, the two things I admire about the Latino is love of family and pride of tradition. You can take a grand child of an immigrant and you can darn well bet their proud of where they're from. If you ever ask someone what part of Mexico they're from Peru in a proud tone. Politicians play to race in their campaigns and you can bet it is discussed and the Latino vote does matter. Do you not think my Governor Sandoval brought out the Latino vote? I was sure proud to vote for him and even prouder when stepped back from running for Reid's seat.

While I have no desire to go to Norway where my family is from I do have cousin's that communicate with out family back there. My grandpa came around Cape Horn in 1903 to Seattle. Family isn't as important to some Caucasian people like the Latino.


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> To an extent what say rings somewhat true. However, the two things I admire about the Latino is love of family and pride of tradition. You can take a grand child of an immigrant and you can darn well bet their proud of where they're from. If you ever ask someone what part of Mexico they're from Peru in a proud tone. Politicians play to race in their campaigns and you can bet it is discussed and the Latino vote does matter. Do you not think my Governor Sandoval brought out the Latino vote? I was sure proud to vote for him and even prouder when stepped back from running for Reid's seat.
> 
> While I have no desire to go to Norway where my family is from I do have cousin's that communicate with out family back there. My grandpa came around Cape Horn in 1903 to Seattle. Family isn't as important to some Caucasian people like the Latino.


I think you guys make a mistake when comes to races 

for ex :I'm Caucasian,I'm Latin, not Hispanic not Portuguese 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=latin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=LvaKV7HvKMfw0ASqggo


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

MrWillys said:


> To an extent what say rings somewhat true. However, the two things I admire about the Latino is love of family and pride of tradition. You can take a grand child of an immigrant and you can darn well bet their proud of where they're from. If you ever ask someone what part of Mexico they're from Peru in a proud tone. Politicians play to race in their campaigns and you can bet it is discussed and the Latino vote does matter. Do you not think my Governor Sandoval brought out the Latino vote? I was sure proud to vote for him and even prouder when stepped back from running for Reid's seat.
> 
> While I have no desire to go to Norway where my family is from I do have cousin's that communicate with out family back there. My grandpa came around Cape Horn in 1903 to Seattle. Family isn't as important to some Caucasian people like the Latino.


"While I have no desire to go to Norway where my family is from I do have cousin's that communicate with out family back there." So would you be considered part of the Nordic voting block? I don't think so. You have more interests in common with a third generation American of Cuban descent. Or a fifth generation person of Italian descent than you do with a Norwegian.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Any of you ever done the ancestry.com dna test to see what your made of from what areas, I have, Its amazing test.

http://dna.ancestry.com.au/?geo_a=r...=2.0.0&o_xid=64406&o_lid=64406&o_sch=Partners

Turns out I have about 10 different areas I'm from, I thought most people would be like this but another friend came back 75% Irish.
There was a family rumour I had American Indian Arapaho in there so I wanted to know, Turns out none. 

Ireland 34%
Europe west 25%
Great Britain 18%
Scandinavia 11%
Iberian Peninsula 4%
Finland/northwest Russia 2%
Italy greece 2% 
European jewish 1%
Middle east 1%
Senegal Africa 1%


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Your a Heinz 57 Caz, me too.
Never had the test done but my dads grandparents immigrated from the Ukraine. My moms mom come over on a boat from Sicily, and grandpa was born in the US from my Polish immigrant great grandparents.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Irish
Scottish 
Polish 
And a little bit of native American thrown In. 

And they wonder why I drink! :whistling2:


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

This happens when untrained people do trained people job.... this was from this week...who knows what will be next week


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

You wouldn't believe how often I've seen bulkheads built down from a grid ceiling 


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Thank god I'm almost done cooking this diet bacon my wife bought cause it's better for me. So if I eat twice as many pieces where's the benefit?

Where I'm from we have different T-bar standards and must use heavy duty grid to suspend soffits from. Our mains and tees are 1 1/2" (37.5 mm) tall and the mains use a thicker metal than standard. USG addresses this in their support if you can read. This looks like the wires weren't placed properly and the collapse is purely substandard. 

The owner was bummed that they had to pay more for the pro's to come in and fix the lackeys work!


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> Where I'm from we have different T-bar standards and must use heavy duty grid to suspend soffits from. Our mains and tees are 1 1/2" (37.5 mm) tall and the mains use a thicker metal than standard. USG addresses this in their support if you can read. This looks like the wires weren't placed properly and the collapse is purely substandard.
> 
> The owner was bummed that they had to pay more for the pro's to come in and fix the lackeys work!


yes we can get different T-bar here too.....but not the T-bar collapsed....off course under the weight lost the level which made the bulkhead to fall ....but also the bulkhead was fixed on 2 strips of 9' board ( one on each side)...no wires... and to understand better the issue the bottom side of the bulkhead was 13 mm soundcheck board which is very heavy... and inside has timber nogging 


The owner didn't even know about this issue.... cause he is dumb


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

What I'd do in this situation is I would have bridged some stud and track from the purling down and around the a/c built the bulkhead independently band run grid into bulkhead 


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