# Apla-Tech CFS



## R.E. Plaster

We 've been using the Apla-Tech continuoius flow system and I must say I wish I would have bought it ten years ago it really makes things easier. The only thing you really have to get used to is with the hose but I think it is well worth it. Any thoughts anyone:whistling2:


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## JustMe

R.E. Plaster said:


> We 've been using the Apla-Tech continuoius flow system and I must say I wish I would have bought it ten years ago it really makes things easier. The only thing you really have to get used to is with the hose but I think it is well worth it. Any thoughts anyone:whistling2:



What are you using it mostly on, that you're liking it so much? Houses? Condos? Commercial?


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## rhardman

Ames blatantly knocked off their system. :wallbash:

It's tragic. 

_

(...in my humble opinion...)_


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## STOTLE DRYWALL

Are you liking its increase in production or increase in quality?

Obvious increase in production; but what i meant, is do you feel you are sacrificying quality?


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## JustMe

rhardman said:


> Ames blatantly knocked off their system. :wallbash:
> 
> It's tragic.
> 
> _
> 
> (...in my humble opinion...)_


Maybe I'm missing something, Rick, that you can fill in the blanks on if I'm wrong. Right now I'm seeing it as:

- Ames copying the system of the leader in a category, might be good for the leader - at least better than if Ames had done some truly innovative CFS problem solving and improvements. Ames copying of Apla-Tech's system can also give 'perceptual validity' to any claim Apla-Tech might make to customers as far as them saying their system is best in the CFS category.
And marketing history has shown that copying a leader rarely works very well as far as taking over a product or service category. So maybe better (for Apla-Tech) to have Ames chasing Apla-Tech with nothing really new, than Ames making moves that could make them a serious competitive threat(?) Unless the different pump is what's supposed to do that? Or ........?

- Didn't other companies copy Ames' systems, once their patents expired? Or am I really missing something?


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## rhardman

JustMe said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, Rick, that you can fill in the blanks on if I'm wrong. Right now I'm seeing it as:
> 
> - Ames copying the system of the leader in a category, might be good for the leader - at least better than if Ames had done some truly innovative CFS problem solving and improvements. Ames copying of Apla-Tech's system can also give 'perceptual validity' to any claim Apla-Tech might make to customers as far as them saying their system is best in the CFS category.
> And marketing history has shown that copying a leader rarely works very well as far as taking over a product or service category. So maybe better (for Apla-Tech) to have Ames chasing Apla-Tech with nothing really new, than Ames making moves that could make them a serious competitive threat(?) Unless the different pump is what's supposed to do that? Or ........?
> 
> - Didn't other companies copy Ames' systems, once their patents expired? Or am I really missing something?


I think you're absolutely right on every point. 

It does validate the CFS hose fed system and especially Apla-Tech technology. Unfortunately for A-T, Ames has greater name recognition and still has stores in most areas. If they can increase their store traffic, they have greater sales opportunities. If they wanted to, they could have their CFS system all over the world in a very short amount of time and they do have a much larger advertising budget. So I think Apla-Tech, as much as I have a high regard for them, certainly have some challenges ahead.

But I'm still not convinced that Ames really wants to develop this new market as much as they want the credit for new innovation. Last I heard, the pricing was still way high and out of the reach of their customer base.

A while back, I had an ex-Ames guy tell me the cost to build a taper for them was around $100.00 (that was before China). I don't know what the cost of the boxes are. With their rentals, they make a fortune from a virtually never ending revenue stream. So again, it doesn't make sense that they would try to end that business model.

Ames needs foot traffic and I think that's what they are after with this thing. Show a new technology and guys will come to see it. Then they'll rent the lower price automatic tools.

I'm sorry to say this...and I don't mean anything disrespectful to anyone here...but there is very little loyalty in this industry. It's usually about price and convenience. Nobody is going to give a rip about who the actual creator is if someone else is in front of them and talks a good story. 

If they can claim "new and improved" that's enough for most people.

I think that's what that little RF brake is about. It's a ridiculous approach to a (brake) mechanism...but it does provide a marketing feature...ala...more foot traffic. 

It wasn't the basic business model that ruined Ames, it was their massive arrogance and not knowing how a drywall guy thinks. :thumbsup: Even with the "for sale" competitors, they could have easily continued to dominate the industry if they had paid attention to what was really going on.

I invited Apla Tech to join DWT a while back. I'd really like to hear their opinion of all of this.


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## D's

I've had my Apla system for a year and am more than happy with it. It's more productive and ergonomic than I anticipated and so far all the components seem well designed and durable. I haven't seen the Ames Cfs up close but given that there isn't much there that's exciting me is a testament to how well apla covered all the bases to begin with. The only downside is the hose but sometimes you have to take one step back to take 10 forward.

I bought a z- swizel on eBay like the one Ames is using so hopefully it will make the hose more manageable than using a 3' whip. I'll post the results.


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## R.E. Plaster

We us the cfs system on residential and commercial work. It makes your life easier all the way around you dont have to push near as hard when running the boxes ( thank you for getting ride of the coaters ) and when running angles you can fill them out and it just saves a ton of time not running back to the pump to refill boxes.


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## DSJOHN

I have an A T and I,ll guarantee the rep or owner wont touch this site---thats all I,m saying


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## Jason

DSJOHN said:


> I have an A T and I,ll guarantee the rep or owner wont touch this site---thats all I,m saying


 
Aww, c'mon John! Are they just shy or does the system need improvement? I'd really like to hear your opinion of how well each tool does its job. You running the airline or the Mark V?


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## Jason

R.E. Plaster said:


> ( thank you for getting ride of the coaters )


Why did they do away with the coaters and send you back to pushing a flap? Does the pump surge? Or is it too hard to govern the flow overall?


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## JustMe

rhardman said:


> A while back, I had an ex-Ames guy tell me the cost to build a taper for them was around $100.00 (that was before China). I don't know what the cost of the boxes are. With their rentals, they make a fortune from a virtually never ending revenue stream. So again, it doesn't make sense that they would try to end that business model.


I thought I read somewhere - maybe somewhere here - that a ridiculous percentage of their rentals got returned and contracts cancelled over the last year or 2. If true, could it be that along with the construction slow down right now, other mfg. competitors are forcing a significant reduction in Ames' auto tools rental model? 



rhardman said:


> I'm sorry to say this...and I don't mean anything disrespectful to anyone here...but there is very little loyalty in this industry. It's usually about price and convenience.


Work at giving me good price/value and convenience - and/or tools that make a fair amount more sense to work with, enough that it would offset any price and convenience inconvenience - and I can be very loyal.


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## TonyM

I bought the Apla Tech Pneumatic set up about 5 yrs ago now, and today, I only use the Canon for my internals. The coaters were, IMO, hard to get a consistent finish with, without wiping afterwards. If the framing was bad, then I was forever adjusting the flow and the crown of the blade to get the joint right. This all cost time. Their new Boxes are the way to go, and will consider them when times are less challenging financially. The Canon has a z swivel on which aids manoeuvrability. I bought the large apla pump but hardly used it as I found it easier to fill the Canon from a normal drywall pump, (I use a Cinta high filling pump). I think that their tools are great, and will pay dividends if you have enough work to keep them busy. I've found Dave at Apla-Tech very helpful over the years with any support or advice i've needed. I've used the CFS on occasion with the large hopper, and that really does turn the work out quickly.


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## Jason

TonyM said:


> I bought the Apla Tech Pneumatic set up about 5 yrs ago now, and today, I only use the Canon for my internals. The coaters were, IMO, hard to get a consistent finish with, without wiping afterwards. If the framing was bad, then I was forever adjusting the flow and the crown of the blade to get the joint right. This all cost time. Their new Boxes are the way to go, and will consider them when times are less challenging financially. The Canon has a z swivel on which aids manoeuvrability. I bought the large apla pump but hardly used it as I found it easier to fill the Canon from a normal drywall pump, (I use a Cinta high filling pump). I think that their tools are great, and will pay dividends if you have enough work to keep them busy. I've found Dave at Apla-Tech very helpful over the years with any support or advice i've needed. I've used the CFS on occasion with the large hopper, and that really does turn the work out quickly.


Thanks Tony. Ya it seems like getting the flow right would be hard to do for coaters. I was always curious how well it would work. That's a shame. Without working coaters, the CFS becomes a mobile box filling system instead of a proper mud application system, which is a big step down. Can't really see spending for that. Hell, I could buy a Graco, drill the hole myself, and duct tape the filler hose to the box handle.


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## raven

I've owned the cfs for four years now and its well worth the investment if you can feed it enough work. works awsome for the corners almost effortless compaired to pushing on an angle box. would like to get their slimboxes next has any body bought those yet.


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## R.E. Plaster

I have the slim boxes and I have to say they work great just like using regular boxes but with out the strain on your back from pushing so hard, before they had the coaters which where junk. And as far as the mud flow there is a dial that you set to ajust mudflow all the way around it is a great system ( we're using the Mark V ) :thumbup:


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## rhardman

Those coaters originally came from a system called Versa Tool. The taper they had at the time had a cam in it so you would run it to the end of the seam, back up a couple of inches and then roll forward. The tape would cut automatically.

I have an old brochure around somewhere...

I remember the Versa Tool was anodized gold and about 4 inches in diameter. You would pump air into it with a tire pump. Then you would pump your mud into the taper(against the air pressure) which was easy to begin with but it got harder the more mud that went in. When you started applying mud, it too had a dial to regulate. The big problem was that the high air pressure would shoot the mud out but as the reservoir emptied, the air pressure dropped and the mud slowed down. The thing weighed a ton too.

They've done a good job improving it. :thumbup:

My dad actually liked the coaters. 

This would have been 1976 or 1977.


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## TonyM

Jason said:


> Thanks Tony. Ya it seems like getting the flow right would be hard to do for coaters. I was always curious how well it would work. That's a shame. Without working coaters, the CFS becomes a mobile box filling system instead of a proper mud application system, which is a big step down. Can't really see spending for that. Hell, I could buy a Graco, drill the hole myself, and duct tape the filler hose to the box handle.


As long as you have the CFS box handle, you can indeed drill your own boxes. I had a pair of shims made up that prevented the boxes from holding more than an inch of mud,and cut down on weight, much like the Apla Tech box. We then used our own boxes with the CFS handle.


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## rhardman

TonyM said:


> As long as you have the CFS box handle, you can indeed drill your own boxes. I had a pair of shims made up that prevented the boxes from holding more than an inch of mud,and cut down on weight, much like the Apla Tech box. We then used our own boxes with the CFS handle.


Nicely done Tony!

I like the Apla Tech guys and I admire their creativity but I couldn't understand why they went with the standard box design instead of perfecting the coaters. When they went with the box, they really devalued their technology. The basic design of that coater was good. 

I think they should go back to their original approach and make it work. It's a $50.00 fix* and would set them apart from Ames. I offered them the 3 point creaser wheel and showed them how to modify their creaser arm to adapt it. There seemed to be interest and then all communication stopped.

Who cares about who made the creaser wheel but in my opinion, they should fix the coater, add the creaser wheel and then market the more advanced technologies. It's a cheap and extremely simple approach to combating Ames attack on them. They're also dependent on Graco but that's easy enough to fix with a new contract with another company. Today's market is full of those opportunities. I had 2 conversations this week along those lines. The only thing Graco offers them is name recognition.

I'm talking too much for my own good...I'll step back for a while. :blink:

*My dad had them working great.


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## TonyM

rhardman said:


> Nicely done Tony!
> 
> I like the Apla Tech guys and I admire their creativity but I couldn't understand why they went with the standard box design instead of perfecting the coaters. When they went with the box, they really devalued their technology. The basic design of that coater was good.
> 
> I think they should go back to their original approach and make it work. * It's a $50.00 fix** and would set them apart from Ames. I offered them the 3 point creaser wheel and showed them how to modify their creaser arm to adapt it. There seemed to be interest and then all communication stopped.


In your opinion, is it the fact that the coater blade is at a shallow angle to the drywall, as opposed to the better finish achieved by the box blade being perpendicular to it? That is my opinion. If they had mounted a box blade set up on the coater, I reckon it would have worked better. OK, you wouldn't have the option to push that little bit extra out if required, but another pass would sort that out.


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## Jason

I'm a little spooked that they brought something to market that didn't perform as advertised. I know some of you guys seem happy with their stuff but that's a cardinal sin for a tool company.


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## rhardman

TonyM said:


> In your opinion, is it the fact that the coater blade is at a shallow angle to the drywall, as opposed to the better finish achieved by the box blade being perpendicular to it? That is my opinion. If they had mounted a box blade set up on the coater, I reckon it would have worked better. OK, you wouldn't have the option to push that little bit extra out if required, but another pass would sort that out.


I'll let them do their own R&D. :jester:


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## TonyM

Jason said:


> I'm a little spooked that they brought something to market that didn't perform as advertised. I know some of you guys seem happy with their stuff but that's a cardinal sin for a tool company.


It did perform mate. There are guys on here who persevered with the coaters and have perfected the use of them. The tape applicator and the Canon & CFS tubes for corner finishing are all very effective and productive tools. I myself was looking for perfection in one or two passes at the most like you get with the boxes, but couldn't achieve it with the coaters.


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## Jason

TonyM said:


> It did perform mate. There are guys on here who persevered with the coaters and have perfected the use of them. The tape applicator and the Canon & CFS tubes for corner finishing are all very effective and productive tools. I myself was looking for perfection in one or two passes at the most like you get with the boxes, but couldn't achieve it with the coaters.


I'm going to be looking at Gracos this week so might check out the handle like you were saying, T.


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## D's

I removed the 3 foot 1/4"" whip between the trigger and the 3/8" hose and replaced it with the above Graco Z swivel I bought on E-bay for $150, along with the appropriate fittings. Makes a world of difference as no kinks are introduced into the hose as you're working that end up fighting against you. The hose always hangs straight down out the bottom of the trigger allowing you to work in tighter spaces. Plus you can lean the tool against the wall while the hose and swivel sit flat on the floor. I'd recommend it to other Apla users and that it become a standard part of Apla's trigger assembly.


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## rhardman

D's said:


> I removed the 3 foot 1/4"" whip between the trigger and the 3/8" hose and replaced it with the above Graco Z swivel I bought on E-bay for $150, along with the appropriate fittings. Makes a world of difference as no kinks are introduced into the hose as you're working that end up fighting against you. The hose always hangs straight down out the bottom of the trigger allowing you to work in tighter spaces. Plus you can lean the tool against the wall while the hose and swivel sit flat on the floor. I'd recommend it to other Apla users and that it become a standard part of Apla's trigger assembly.


 
It's a great solution. Years ago I used one from a gas pump and it solved a kinking problem we had. Yours is much more streamlined!

Nicely done D's! Maybe Apla will take your advice. They will obviously read your post.

:thumbup:


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## M T Buckets Painting

rhardman said:


> Those coaters originally came from a system called Versa Tool. The taper they had at the time had a cam in it so you would run it to the end of the seam, back up a couple of inches and then roll forward. The tape would cut automatically.
> 
> I have an old brochure around somewhere...
> 
> I remember the Versa Tool was anodized gold and about 4 inches in diameter. You would pump air into it with a tire pump. Then you would pump your mud into the taper(against the air pressure) which was easy to begin with but it got harder the more mud that went in. When you started applying mud, it too had a dial to regulate. The big problem was that the high air pressure would shoot the mud out but as the reservoir emptied, the air pressure dropped and the mud slowed down. The thing weighed a ton too.
> 
> They've done a good job improving it. :thumbup:
> 
> My dad actually liked the coaters.
> 
> This would have been 1976 or 1977.


I have a catalog that shows the Versa-Tool and all of the attachments to it. It shows Elmer Schrock using the tool in various applications. 

It is a neat looking tool. If you are interested in this catalog or viewing the pictures, I can get you one of these catalogs from Tool World. This company is in Arthur, IL . These guys even make their own taping tools, such as flat boxes etc. Tool World, Doerock inc. is a great company that I like to do business with when I can. Elmer, the owner even found some discontinued Tape Tech parts for me.


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## rhardman

M T Buckets Painting said:


> I have a catalog that shows the Versa-Tool and all of the attachments to it. It shows Elmer Schrock using the tool in various applications.
> 
> It is a neat looking tool. If you are interested in this catalog or viewing the pictures, I can get you one of these catalogs from Tool World. This company is in Arthur, IL . These guys even make their own taping tools, such as flat boxes etc. Tool World, Doerock inc. is a great company that I like to do business with when I can. Elmer, the owner even found some discontinued Tape Tech parts for me.


 
I'd really like to get a copy of that catalog. :yes:


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## Mudslinger

....


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## M T Buckets Painting

Mudslinger said:


> That would be really cool to see. Is it small enough to scan, or take pics of and post it on DWT?


I lack the technology to do such things as scan, etc. I have passed the info for the company that I received the catalog from onto Rick. Once Rick receives the catalog, maybe he could do some posting of the Versa-Tool on the site. I'm sure that it would make for an interesting thread.


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## rhardman

I will for sure.:thumbsup:


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## rhardman

M T Buckets Painting said:


> I lack the technology to do such things as scan, etc. I have passed the info for the company that I received the catalog from onto Rick. Once Rick receives the catalog, maybe he could do some posting of the Versa-Tool on the site. I'm sure that it would make for an interesting thread.


I just returned from NYC and called Elmer this morning. He's going to send us a copy of his catalog. I'll post the photo's and other Versa Tool info as soon as I get it.:yes:


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## M T Buckets Painting

Here is a versa-tool on ebay... If you lool on the handle there is an air pressure guage. A bicycle pump charged the system. The coater shown has a striking resemblance to the Alpha Tech coater.
The one here is shown with a coater, there are many more attachments that fit onto the machine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/AIR-POWERED-DRY...867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23111ab34b


http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...00,419823723,419823741&formats=0,0,0&format=0


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## Tim0282

Saw this earlier. Are you the seller? Looks like it would work.


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## M T Buckets Painting

No, I'm not the seller. I was looking on ebay and happened to see it.


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## rhardman

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Here is a versa-tool on ebay... If you lool on the handle there is an air pressure guage. A bicycle pump charged the system. The coater shown has a striking resemblance to the Alpha Tech coater.
> The one here is shown with a coater, there are many more attachments that fit onto the machine.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/AIR-POWERED-DRY...867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23111ab34b
> 
> 
> http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...00,419823723,419823741&formats=0,0,0&format=0


 
That's it!

Those were the Apla Tech coaters. I was told recently from 2 different sources that Apla Tech bought their coaters from the Versa Tool people.


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## rhardman

rhardman said:


> I will for sure.:thumbsup:


I received the catalog from Elmer with the Versa Tools. I'll try to get them scanned and on the site tomorrow. It was cool to see them, they're the exact set my dad had.


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## rhardman

*As promised...*



rhardman said:


> I received the catalog from Elmer with the Versa Tools. I'll try to get them scanned and on the site tomorrow. It was cool to see them, they're the exact set my dad had.


















:thumbup:

(M.T. Please tell Elmer thank you for us.)


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## Mudslinger

....


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## M T Buckets Painting

I happened to talk to Elmer on the phone two days ago and thanked him.

If anyone is in need of any tools, Elmer has about everything that one could want. PM me if anyone wants the phone number to his store.( I would post it but, I am unsure if that would be in violation of site rules)


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## rhardman

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Here is a versa-tool on ebay... If you lool on the handle there is an air pressure guage. A bicycle pump charged the system. The coater shown has a striking resemblance to the Alpha Tech coater.
> The one here is shown with a coater, there are many more attachments that fit onto the machine.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/AIR-POWERED-DRY...867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23111ab34b


Hey M.T.,
Guess what I bought?. I pick it up Friday.







Thanks for the heads up!


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## M T Buckets Painting

I'm glad to see that little piece of drywall finishing history is going to a good home. 

I think that I might know where you can get the rest of the attachments for that.:whistling2: Elmer would be able to hook a fellow up with all the stuff that you need.


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## Mudslinger

....


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## rhardman

Looking it over closely I can see why Apla-Tech went to the boxes. It's a good tool and easy to fix but each one would need to be broken down and a couple of pieces altered and then put back together and tested. Apla can more easily use the new proven box (already accepted by the industry) and offer something new to a disgruntled customer that didn't like the coater. 

Smart move! :thumbsup:


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## JustMe

Instead of wiping behind with a knife, has anyone whose used the Apla CFS or air cannon tried 2buck's method of 'coat flats with a 7 or 10" box, wait 10-20 minutes, then coat again with same box size'? Can that work well enough with such a system?


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## 800PoundGuerrilla

rhardman said:


> Ames blatantly knocked off their system. :wallbash:
> 
> It's tragic.
> 
> 
> 
> _(...in my humble opinion...)_


 
Creative Destruction ... one thing leads to another and another and another ... big wheel keeps on turning ... proud Mary keeps on burning ... rollin' ... rollin' ... rollin' down the river .....


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## 800PoundGuerrilla

JustMe said:


> Instead of wiping behind with a knife, has anyone whose used the Apla CFS or air cannon tried 2buck's method of 'coat flats with a 7 or 10" box, wait 10-20 minutes, then coat again with same box size'? Can that work well enough with such a system?


Experiment ... what if ... you don't know until you try.


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## 800PoundGuerrilla

rhardman said:


> Looking it over closely I can see why Apla-Tech went to the boxes. It's a good tool and easy to fix but each one would need to be broken down and a couple of pieces altered and then put back together and tested. Apla can more easily use the new proven box (already accepted by the industry) and offer something new to a disgruntled customer that didn't like the coater.
> 
> Smart move! :thumbsup:


Sounds like what Ames Taping Tools did.


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## JustMe

Field General said:


> Experiment ... what if ... you don't know until you try.


I know. But if possible, it's kind of nice having an idea in advance that it does seem to work in ways one would like it to, to better help justify such an expenditure.

Btw: "What if" was a user name I tried to get mine changed to on another discussion forum at one time. But they wouldn't do it.


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## Tim0282

Narrow minded on the other forum. Was someone else 'What if'?


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## JustMe

Tim0282 said:


> Narrow minded on the other forum. Was someone else 'What if'?


No "What if" on there at the time.

Not so much narrow minded as 'all rules apply the same to everyone'. They had their reasons, which I also understood.

I had my own reasoning, justification, for wanting to change it, and I thought them not too bad. But they weren't going to change the rules and so maybe open things up for others to want to do the same. It could've created some confusion, with people posting under one name for some time and then switching to another.


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## rhardman

Field General said:


> Creative Destruction ... one thing leads to another and another and another ... big wheel keeps on turning ... proud Mary keeps on burning ... rollin' ... rollin' ... rollin' down the river .....


Yea, the way of the world...

I don't know, I just thought it was tacky for Ames to "borrow" the Continuous Flow System term from Apla-Tech without even attempting to come up with their own label. Personally, I think having something original would have been a better marketing platform for them. 

I hear the new Ames management team is better than in the past. Hopefully the drywall contractor will benefit from a new mindset over there. :thumbsup:


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## Bazooka-Joe

*yeah*



Jason said:


> I'm a little spooked that they brought something to market that didn't perform as advertised. I know some of you guys seem happy with their stuff but that's a cardinal sin for a tool company.



They tried some fancy footwork on me, luckily I jumped on them, the Canon is a piece of ****, the original coaters are ****, over prices for fittings you can buy at farm and garden, flow valve same thing at the farm and garden $40 bucks 
Apla-Junk wants $400, poles are just a pole with a air valve attachment 12 bucks, :yesk


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## JustMe

Bazooka-Joe said:


> They tried some fancy footwork on me, luckily I jumped on them, the Canon is a piece of ****


Their air cannon is ****? I would've thought that might've worked okay enough. What was the problem? Speed of mud feed not consistent enough as the tube emptied?

Btw: What psi does that thing usually run at?


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## TonyM

JustMe said:


> Their air cannon is ****? I would've thought that might've worked okay enough. What was the problem? Speed of mud feed not consistent enough as the tube emptied?
> 
> Btw: What psi does that thing usually run at?


The Canon works just fine with the internal mud heads and corner finishers. I could never get on with the coaters so sold them. Admittedly the Apla stuff is a tad expensive, but mine has paid for itself many times over.


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## Bazooka-Joe

JustMe said:


> Their air cannon is ****? I would've thought that might've worked okay enough. What was the problem? Speed of mud feed not consistent enough as the tube emptied?
> 
> Btw: What psi does that thing usually run at?



the only thing it does is makes it easier to pump the other is I can get the job done faster without the canon, the coaters, why do you thing they went to spring box, cause there coaters are junk, and there new boxes are more expensive than any other, why? I don't know but that system is not for me and anyone else I know and is allways for sale on e-bay, I know if a person tried to buy a tool from me that was valuable I would keep it, I can swing a Bazooka faster than those guys can and they sure are slow on there demo vid, I can sling box faster and make most peoples eyes water with all the excitement,

The CFS is most likely the real option but my shacks are not the size of custom, 

They tried talking me into the Canon and I was Leary yep phone calls to me and 2 months later they brought out CFS, I think I would of been more pissed if I bought it and then they bring that unit out


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## Bazooka-Joe

*each to his own*



TonyM said:


> The Canon works just fine with the internal mud heads and corner finishers. I could never get on with the coaters so sold them. Admittedly the Apla stuff is a tad expensive, but mine has paid for itself many times over.


I built a system from plastic tubes to see if it was any good, I thought it was a waste of time dismantled it and chucked it, my gf could not believe what a junker it was


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## Bazooka-Joe

*yep*



rhardman said:


> Hey M.T.,
> Guess what I bought?. I pick it up Friday.
> View attachment 1404
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!


Like I said


----------



## rhardman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Like I said


_...answered some questions I had. Best $100.00 I ever spent. :thumbsup:_


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

Jason said:


> Thanks Tony. Ya it seems like getting the flow right would be hard to do for coaters. I was always curious how well it would work. That's a shame. Without working coaters, the CFS becomes a mobile box filling system instead of a proper mud application system, which is a big step down. Can't really see spending for that. Hell, I could buy a Graco, drill the hole myself, and duct tape the filler hose to the box handle.



looks like someone is paying attention


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*loot*



rhardman said:


> _...answered some questions I had. Best $100.00 I ever spent. :thumbsup:_


sure is not worth the loot apla-tech wants


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

rhardman said:


> Ames blatantly knocked off their system. :wallbash:
> 
> It's tragic.
> 
> _
> 
> (...in my humble opinion...)_



sorry for youe grief but Renegade Mud Buggy was the C-flow creators, case of who did who


----------



## rhardman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> sorry for youe grief but Renegade Mud Buggy was the C-flow creators, case of who did who


Actually Robert Ames was the first CFS in the late 30's and 40's.









It was a brother team that produced the mudbuggy. They used investment capital which was a mistake.
If they hadn't had to worry about paying back the VC, they would have had time to redesign the system to fit 
the market. Their taper was cool and operated a lot like the Bazooka but a smaller diameter so it probably felt 
weird. The other tools were pretty standard. The pump was a rotor/stator (the patent shows 2 of them) and the tank had 2 
mixers. Other than the packaging, there really wasn't anything new there.


----------



## Tim0282

Do they still market the Renegade?


----------



## JustMe

On Mudbuggy:

http://www.trademarkia.com/mudbuggy-76226205.html


----------



## rhardman

No Tim, sadly they died.

I have all their patents on another computer. When I get back over there I'll post them.

(see my note above)


----------



## Tim0282

I remember a sales guy on the job demonstrating a system in the late '60's. Had a large hose and pumped from a bucket. It was rent only. And my Dad thought it was too much money by the month. Wish I could remember how much it was. As a youngster it seemed like a LOT of money. I was just learning to spot nails and run angles with a six inch knife. Was pretty good at cleaning floors. Must have been, because that is what I did for a long time before running mud.


----------



## Tim0282

rhardman said:


> No Tim, sadly they died.
> 
> I have all their patents on another computer. When I get back over there I'll post them.
> 
> (see my note above)


At first I didn't read it all the way through. I see they have long since gone.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*right*



DSJOHN said:


> I have an A T and I,ll guarantee the rep or owner wont touch this site---thats all I,m saying



no kidding I agree with you there, after the plastic air push junk system, think there are a few pissed off tapers for getting ripped off


----------



## D's

Here's a great way to flush out Apla CFS tools after each use. The Apla quick connects are the same as standard pressure washer ones and I used a Gardena garden hose quick connect on the other end with adapters in between, $15 bucks all in and works a treat.


----------



## D's

Here's a pic of the z-swivel installed. Any one with the Apla CFS will appreciate the convenience of dropping the tool this way. It also makes changing tools at the quick connect alot easier. Notice the 6' pole... can do corners at 12' from the floor at the squeeze of the trigger:thumbup:.


----------



## drywallnflorida

D's do you leave the hose hooked to your pump all the time or are you using the quick connect fittings on the hose to pump also? I don't leave my hoses hooked up all the time and its a pain to unhook with out, I will be going out and getting some quick disconects!! I ordered one from alpa tech to make a washout like yours but it was like 40 bucks for the one side disconnect


----------



## DSJOHN

drywallnflorida said:


> D's do you leave the hose hooked to your pump all the time or are you using the quick connect fittings on the hose to pump also? I don't leave my hoses hooked up all the time and its a pain to unhook with out, I will be going out and getting some quick disconects!! I ordered one from alpa tech to make a washout like yours but it was like 40 bucks for the one side disconnect


He.s connected to a Markv I believe, and yeah they fk u on parts big time!!!


----------



## D's

drywallnflorida said:


> D's do you leave the hose hooked to your pump all the time or are you using the quick connect fittings on the hose to pump also? I don't leave my hoses hooked up all the time and its a pain to unhook with out, I will be going out and getting some quick disconects!! I ordered one from alpa tech to make a washout like yours but it was like 40 bucks for the one side disconnect


 
If it's going to sit between jobs for more than a couple of weeks I'll flush the pump, hose, and trigger valve with water and pump conditioner, maybe store the hose seperately. Otherwise, I just leave it all hooked up because it's sealed and there's no chance of things drying up inside(for mud only though not paint). At days end I clean out the trigger quick connect and leave it leaning up against a wall with some water inside the cup since it's the only mudded part that's exposed to air. The mud hopper has a lid so I don't need to worry about that end. I've gone on vacation and left it like that for two weeks no problem - up and running in 2 minutes upon return.

I don't have a quick connect between the pump and the hose since that is all high pressure. Don't think it would be a good idea either- if you ever disconnected under pressure there would be a fountain of mud. Not to say it couldn't be done though.

Apla's disconnects are understandably more expensive because they are machined to not spin when using box handles.


----------



## rhardman

Well, would you look at that.....

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Continuous-Flow-Taping-Tools

These new Ames guys are smart.

:thumbsup:


----------



## JustMe

Got a chance to finish angles the other day using an Apla-Tech Cannon that a new guy brought to my job site. Mostly vertical angles, as most rooms will be t-bar ceilings.
Interesting, seemingly easier for the ceiling height - 10'4". But it still seemed to need my running it up the angles twice - 2nd time for getting a better finish than the 1st pass usually allowed. Is that common, or just me (and him a bit) not being great at operating it? Mud I was using seemed a little too thick at the beginning as well, till towards the end, when I let him finish and brought in a pail of mud I had that was already thinned down more.

I still have to run my new Mudrunner. Maybe sometime next week. Then I'll be able to compare the 2 somewhat.

Anyone with a crystal ball telling them which one I'll like better?


----------



## Tim0282

I've used both. The Apla Tech is easier on the arms. (lighter) I feel like you have a bit more control with the Mud Runner. The Mud Runner is quicker and easier to set up. No compressor, hoses, tank to pump out of. But if you are set up to run boxes with it, then it might be a toss up. Let us know what you decide.


----------



## Tim0282

rhardman said:


> Well, would you look at that.....
> 
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Continuous-Flow-Taping-Tools
> 
> These new Ames guys are smart.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I'm thinking they are smart at making money. 17K is a pretty hefty chunk of change!


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*Nice*



Tim0282 said:


> I'm thinking they are smart at making money. 17K is a pretty hefty chunk of change!


looks like a better system than apla-tech:thumbup:


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*built*



JustMe said:


> Got a chance to finish angles the other day using an Apla-Tech Cannon that a new guy brought to my job site. Mostly vertical angles, as most rooms will be t-bar ceilings.
> Interesting, seemingly easier for the ceiling height - 10'4". But it still seemed to need my running it up the angles twice - 2nd time for getting a better finish than the 1st pass usually allowed. Is that common, or just me (and him a bit) not being great at operating it? Mud I was using seemed a little too thick at the beginning as well, till towards the end, when I let him finish and brought in a pail of mud I had that was already thinned down more.
> 
> I still have to run my new Mudrunner. Maybe sometime next week. Then I'll be able to compare the 2 somewhat.
> 
> Anyone with a crystal ball telling them which one I'll like better?


I built a air drive tool like theirs and everything you say is what I experienced found it more of a piece of sh$t and a waste of time and a waste of money, the only thing it does that is of any use is pumps it up with ease but it takes longer to attach than pump it your self...

each to his own though if you like that junker its up to you


----------



## Tim0282

Bazooka-Joe said:


> looks like a better system than apla-tech:thumbup:


It should be at three times the money.
And I am not convinced it is better that Apla-Tech.


----------



## rhardman

Tim0282 said:


> I'm thinking they are smart at making money. 17K is a pretty hefty chunk of change!


Since their patents ran out in 1978 (I think I'm within a year or two) they've stayed off to themselves not mixing with the general "buy the tools" market. I think they are smart business wise making the transition and partnering up with an established leader on the internet. I'm always suspicious of corporate motives as every final decision is always based on cash flow. I hope it doesn't prove to be a bad thing for All-Wall (or Brandon) over the long run.

One thing is absolutely sure. Having the Ames CFS on All-Wall will steer people that can't afford a set of automatic tools to Ames for the rentals. All Wall is giving Ames free rental advertising. Anyone that say's different, doesn't understand advertising.

It's called subliminal mindshare.


----------



## Tim0282

All Wall is giving Ames free rental advertising.

And kinda forces Wall Tools and Warehouse Bay and the likes to "advertise" for them, too. Tricky.... But if you say you can't afford these, it is a 100% write off on your taxes to rent.... Smooth like a laxative.


----------



## silverstilts

rhardman said:


> Since their patents ran out in 1978 (I think I'm within a year or two) they've stayed off to themselves not mixing with the general "buy the tools" market. I think they are smart business wise making the transition and partnering up with an established leader on the internet. I'm always suspicious of corporate motives as every final decision is always based on cash flow. I hope it doesn't prove to be a bad thing for All-Wall (or Brandon) over the long run.
> 
> One thing is absolutely sure. Having the Ames CFS on All-Wall will steer people that can't afford a set of automatic tools to Ames for the rentals. All Wall is giving Ames free rental advertising. Anyone that say's different, doesn't understand advertising.
> 
> It's called subliminal mindshare.


 I was thinking along the same lines smart way to drive the business back to them through rentals although it is a win win for them either all wall will sell them for them or they will get the rental. Either way it would be fun to have a set for a while to see how they really preform. Especially the bazooka i could go for a lightweight tube, (hint hint) .


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*Hear ya*



Tim0282 said:


> It should be at three times the money.
> And I am not convinced it is better that Apla-Tech.



I hear ya T-Man that is a lot of loot, wanna hear something funny though Apla-tech charges 4 hundy bucks for a flow Valve and it only costs $40 bucks at the Hardware Store


----------



## Tim0282

That is crazy! Borderline thievery!


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*Sh$t*



Tim0282 said:


> That is crazy! Borderline thievery!


the first gadget they came out with for CFS was a Pole and some air Fit'n's thats right I had a fit when they told me the price, I refuse to buy anything of those people,


----------



## rhardman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Steve Earl said it right C for Columbia


3:27 into the video to be exact (....great video :thumbup1.


----------



## rhardman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> I hear ya T-Man that is a lot of loot, wanna hear something funny though Apla-tech charges 4 hundy bucks for a flow Valve and it only costs $40 bucks at the Hardware Store


The problem is that people get into a new venture to make every single penny they can. "I WANT TO GET RICH!!!! I WILL DOMINATE THE UNIVERSE!!!!" So from the very beginning they design their support to be as minimal as possible and their pricing the highest it can possibly be (Ames CFS). Shouldn't it be take care of the contractor first, lower prices as much as possible, and you'll have a larger customer base devoted for life?

As an example...Bazooka is singing the praises for Columbia. :thumbsup:


Bazooka-Joe said:


> Steve Earl said it right C for Columbia


----------



## JustMe

rhardman said:


> 3:27 into the video to be exact (....great video :thumbup1.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvaEJzoaYZk&ob=av2e


Great song.

I'm thinking that's 'seed from Columbia'. But hey, if it gets the message across = :thumbsup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

rhardman said:


> Since their patents ran out in 1978 (I think I'm within a year or two) they've stayed off to themselves not mixing with the general "buy the tools" market. I think they are smart business wise making the transition and partnering up with an established leader on the internet. I'm always suspicious of corporate motives as every final decision is always based on cash flow. I hope it doesn't prove to be a bad thing for All-Wall (or Brandon) over the long run.
> 
> One thing is absolutely sure. Having the Ames CFS on All-Wall will steer people that can't afford a set of automatic tools to Ames for the rentals. All Wall is giving Ames free rental advertising. Anyone that say's different, doesn't understand advertising.
> 
> It's called subliminal mindshare.


I disagree,,,but then I'm not nearly as smart as you are,,,, that is not meant as a slam, but as the truth.

However, I SERIOSLY disagree with you about steering them to ames,,,, the days of renting tools are over,,, the days of paying twice as much for the same stuff is over also.

I don't know much about advertising,, but I know ALOT about buying tools.

Ames has a bad taste in the mouth of drywallers,,, cause they held themselves so aloof for so many years,,,, and charging twice the price today,, is NOT gonna fix that !!!!!!!

And if Ames don't like that,,, they can kiss my ******* arse,,,, I don't buy or rent their stuff anyway!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rhardman

Let me tell you my friend, "smart" is a person that puts his family before himself. _Nothing else matters._

The advantage Ames has is that there are always young guys coming into the market that don't know the history. They want to start their own company and Ames is the easiest way to do it. And if Ames has the wildest looking $17,000.00 set of tools, to a young buck, they're going to be impressed with that.

There will always be a market for rentals. The young guys aren't pi$$ed off for having Ames as the only game in town for years. For them it's a new world and a clean choice. If the sales person (for Ames) is any good, it's an easy sell...especially in this economy. Like Silver said, it they sell a high dollar system it's good money. Their business model is rental and that's what they will always return to.

_But of course you don't have to agree...for I am a drywall man...I have enough ego to impress myself far beyond my concern for any one else's opinion..._:lol::brows::tt2::batman::drink:


----------



## JustMe

rhardman said:


> Let me tell you my friend, "smart" is a person that puts his family before himself. _Nothing else matters._
> 
> The advantage Ames has is that there are always young guys coming into the market that don't know the history. They want to start their own company and Ames is the easiest way to do it. And if Ames has the wildest looking $17,000.00 set of tools, to a young buck, they're going to be impressed with that.
> 
> There will always be a market for rentals. The young guys aren't pi$$ed off for having Ames as the only game in town for years. For them it's a new world and a clean choice. If the sales person (for Ames) is any good, it's an easy sell...especially in this economy. Like Silver said, it they sell a high dollar system it's good money. Their business model is rental and that's what they will always return to.
> 
> _But of course you don't have to agree...for I am a drywall man...I have enough ego to impress myself far beyond my concern for any one else's opinion..._:lol::brows::tt2::drink:


Those were my thoughts about the young and the old (so should I be impressed with myself?) 

BUt, will that young market be sufficient? Can Ames dominate it? Will what worked before work well enough now? How will the new technologies being developed, such as your systems, affect all this? Short term? Longer term? Will "wildest looking" continue to carry a system in an industry where results really do count? Are there some newer concepts and ideas that have already obsoleted it?

I believe I heard/read somewhere that almost 80% of Ames rentals have been returned the last couple years - true or false? If true, will their CFS make enough difference? Time would tell, I guess.

I don't know if this has been posted already - a video of Ames' CFS system on an actual job site. Impressive? Impressive enough? Or is it already a little 'ho-hum' when it comes to CFS systems?

Not being rhetorical. I ask because I really don't know.


----------



## rhardman

rhardman said:


> One thing for sure...DWT is the cutting edge of drywall technology and strategic planning. Whatever the future holds will start here. (Whether the "innovators" give credit to DWT or not. Everyone is here!)


I see we have a new member...



TapeTech said:


> Members,
> 
> TapeTech identified a defective part on the 88TTE Extendable Box handles manufactured between November 2010 and May 15, 2011. The defect causes the set screws to shear off and renders the handle inoperable.
> 
> TapeTech has remedied the problem and we have a repair kit that includes all required parts to make your handle fully operational again. The repair can easily be completed in the the field with this kit.
> 
> If you experienced this problem with your 88TTE handle, please send an e-mail to [email protected] so we can send you a repair kit.
> 
> 
> The e-mail should state, "Please send me a Repair Kit for the 88TTE Handle".
> 
> 
> 
> Other Required Information:
> 
> Full name
> Company Name
> Mailing address
> Serial Number of handle
> Place of Purchase
> Date of Purchase
> *We appreciate your ongoing support!*
> 
> TapeTech


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

JustMe said:


> Those were my thoughts about the young and the old (so should I be impressed with myself?)
> 
> BUt, will that young market be sufficient? Can Ames dominate it? Will what worked before work well enough now? How will the new technologies being developed, such as your systems, affect all this? Short term? Longer term? Will "wildest looking" continue to carry a system in an industry where results really do count? Are there some newer concepts and ideas that have already obsoleted it?
> 
> I believe I heard/read somewhere that almost 80% of Ames rentals have been returned the last couple years - true or false? If true, will their CFS make enough difference? Time would tell, I guess.
> 
> I don't know if this has been posted already - a video of Ames' CFS system on an actual job site. Impressive? Impressive enough? Or is it already a little 'ho-hum' when it comes to CFS systems?
> 
> Not being rhetorical. I ask because I really don't know.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7szAXw4t


you can run like lightning on open walls no matter the Zooker, add CFS pump and shake the place


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*flow valve*

Price	$29.99
SKU:	8051815
Weight:	0.7000
Quantity: 
Average customer rating: ( Total votes: 0 ) 
OverviewReviews (0)Questions (0)
All steel construction
Use in-line to limit flow within a hydraulic circuit
Max. continuous pressure: 5,000 PSI
#6 ORB ports


----------



## D's

Better be stainless or it'll look like junk after a couple of weeks. That's also a completely different style of valve. If your not comparing apples to apples...

I'm curious how you can balk at Apla-Tech's pricing and be excited about an Ames CFS at three times the price? Do you think Ames parts will be any cheaper?


----------



## Goodmanatee

At some point in the near future I shall be buying a cfs system. Alpha or Ames? 
From what I can gather, people who have the alpha tech really like it. And I don't think anyone I the uk stocks the Ames cfs (I maybe wrong). And the Ames is way more £££££ ( sorry don't have dollar sign on the phone).
So I seam to be leaning more towards alpha tech. 
Been quoted around £8000 for full set and graco v.


----------



## Tim0282

There is one coming down the pike that is worth waiting for...If you can hold off a while longer, you might be quality and money wise waiting. A whole new system that out performs the current CFS in the market. Changes the way we do drywall. More efficient, easier to use, easier on the 'ol body, easy to rebuild to new. This "thing"/system is absolutely amazing! I had the privilege of seeing a preview of it. Purty exciting, I must say. And I don't sell it, but I might get to use one when the time comes. (with a minimal amount of cash)


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

rhardman said:


> I see we have a new member...


 
I mentioned in the past,,, like 100 times,,,, I can't email TT unless I download a new mail program. How come they can't provide a link that people that buy computers at Wallmart can use??????

Everybody else seems to be able to do that!!!!!!


----------



## JustMe

Goodmanatee said:


> At some point in the near future I shall be buying a cfs system. Alpha or Ames?
> From what I can gather, people who have the alpha tech really like it. And I don't think anyone I the uk stocks the Ames cfs (I maybe wrong). And the Ames is way more £££££ ( sorry don't have dollar sign on the phone).
> So I seam to be leaning more towards alpha tech.
> Been quoted around £8000 for full set and graco v.


To maybe help any research you might want to do, including internet searching, it's 'Apla', not 'Alpha'. The difference will get you much different results.

I'm not sure where you're getting that people really like Apla-Tech. There's been a lot saying they don't like it, or don't like certain significant things about it. At least that's what I've read so far. Maybe the new slim-line boxes would change some of their minds(?)

Or maybe that's a North American vs. European thing? Discussion forums over there are singing Apla's praises, and over here, not so much?

I agree with Tim. Hold on a little longer if you can, till you see what Rick's company has to offer. It might give you a nice advantage over even those who are running systems such as Apla-Tech's.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

D's said:


> Better be stainless or it'll look like junk after a couple of weeks. That's also a completely different style of valve. If your not comparing apples to apples...
> 
> I'm curious how you can balk at Apla-Tech's pricing and be excited about an Ames CFS at three times the price? Do you think Ames parts will be any cheaper?



the stainless is $40 bucks I could not find a pic for it, 

ames system is better than apla-tech I did not say I like the price but I don't like how apla-tech tried to deal with me, never the less I know how to build both systems and have friends in machine shops also


----------



## rhardman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> ...never the less I know how to build both systems and have friends in machine shops also


Years ago I heard about a guy that connected his boxes to the hose from his trailer rig. :lol:


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

*yeah*



rhardman said:


> Years ago I heard about a guy that connected his boxes to the hose from his trailer rig. :lol:


it's not as big a deal and worth the loot those companies think it is

can't call him trailer trash


----------



## TapeTech

JustMe said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, Rick, that you can fill in the blanks on if I'm wrong. Right now I'm seeing it as:
> 
> - Ames copying the system of the leader in a category, might be good for the leader - at least better than if Ames had done some truly innovative CFS problem solving and improvements. Ames copying of Apla-Tech's system can also give 'perceptual validity' to any claim Apla-Tech might make to customers as far as them saying their system is best in the CFS category.
> And marketing history has shown that copying a leader rarely works very well as far as taking over a product or service category. So maybe better (for Apla-Tech) to have Ames chasing Apla-Tech with nothing really new, than Ames making moves that could make them a serious competitive threat(?) Unless the different pump is what's supposed to do that? Or ........?
> 
> - Didn't other companies copy Ames' systems, once their patents expired? Or am I really missing something?


An interesting conversation, to be sure. Also interesting to note that the Ames brothers pioneered Continuous Flow long before any other company, using a back pack and a battery driven system. You can see some photos of the tool on a post in the "Tools" section of Drywall Talk. Look for the thread called Ames Continuous Flow.

Apla-Tech certainly moved the needle forward with their system and helped finishers really increase productivity - even over automatic tools. The new Ames Continuous Flow has a number of innovations with the tools, including radio frequency (RF) controls that "talk" to the pump, allowing the user to control the pressure and flow from the tool at any time. The pump, designed in cooperation with Graco, is designed specifically for continuous flow of joint compound. 

There really are a number of other features but I don't want this to turn into an advertisement. I would simply suggest that every one should always be open to improvement and innovation; check something out before passing judgment.

P.S. Regarding the price (as there were a few comments in the thread), keep your eyes peeled for a really strong promotion coming very soon!

Thanks.


----------



## JustMe

TapeTech said:


> Apla-Tech certainly moved the needle forward with their system and helped finishers really increase productivity - even over automatic tools. The new Ames Continuous Flow has a number of innovations with the tools, including radio frequency (RF) controls that "talk" to the pump, allowing the user to control the pressure and flow from the tool at any time.


Not saying Ames wasn't innovating it 1st, but with the RF, I've seen one other system with RF technology - Bfast. But they don't seem to be around anymore.

I once built a hydraulic system that I incorporated RF technology into, for powering up some hydraulic tree cutting power tools. It offered some interesting benefits.



TapeTech said:


> I would simply suggest that every one should always be open to improvement and innovation; check something out before passing judgment.


Point taken. State your case about whatever you find here you don't agree with, and I for one am willing to listen.


----------



## D's

*machining boxes for CFS*

Here's some pics of how easy it is to machine a hole in your box plates so they work with Apla-tech CFS or air assisted. Doing so helps to lower the entry price.

I used a friends drill press and matched the diameter to the brake orifice. Columbia boxes have a little raised bit around the pins that were keeping it from tightening down properly so I glued some old bike tire rubber to the face of the brake to get a tight seal and to keep it from loosening off. Not perfect but does the job perfectly.


----------



## gazman

D`s. Do you use the Apla Zooker? How much mud can you put on the internals? The reason I ask is that mine is collecting dust, but if it is capable of putting enough mud on the tape to run a 4" Tapeworm over it I may have to drag it out and dust it off. Also what pressure do you run the taper at? You were also saying that you would like to try the Apla Coaters, dont waste your time they are the main reason mine has dust all over it. The biggest waste of money I have ever had:furious:.


----------



## D's

I do use the Apla-Taper. There is a lot more to running it than a regular taper but just takes practice. Between the trigger valve, the corner creaser, tape advance, cutter, and tape reel tension... there is a lot going on so be patient. I set the pressure dial on the Mark V at just under high noon for taping which I think is around 1250psi. When you're learning it helps to dial it lower to give you extra time to coordinate your actions and timing. Once you've found a comfortable pressure, the amount of mud behind the tape depends on how fast you move. For corners, where there are no bevels go full speed, and slow down accordingly for where there are 1 or 2 bevels to fill. I don't like sanding out taping mud so I flush with a 3" followed by a 3.5". Don't see why you couldn't run more mud and flush with the 4", although there is a limit to how much mud you can put behind the tapes without it getting too messy. Regardless, you have to follow the flusher to clean up any excess mud that make it by the skids.

Hope that helps!
D


----------



## gazman

Thats interesting that you say that there is a lot more going on than with a normal taper. I have never used a normal taper but got the hang of the apla taper, before I decided that the clean up time with hot mud was not worth the effort. We dont have taping mud and I dont trust our ap on the flats. Maybe I should try a normal taper.


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## D's

There is more going on coordination and timing wise but it's way less strain on the body and more productive. I wouldn't go near my Apla-taper with hot mud, though I hear of some guys putting it through their bazooka's when doing factory work. Cleaning any auto tools is definitely a pain, check out the cleaning stations thread to make it easier. Sounds like there are material issues In Oz that keep you from being more productive too.

Unfortunately most things that have advantages come with a downside. It's not until you mitigate the downsides that you get the full benefit.


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## Kiwiman

D's said:


> There is more going on coordination and timing wise but it's way less strain on the body and more productive. I wouldn't go near my Apla-taper with hot mud, though I hear of some guys putting it through their bazooka's when doing factory work. Cleaning any auto tools is definitely a pain, check out the cleaning stations thread to make it easier. Sounds like there are material issues In Oz that keep you from being more productive too.
> 
> Unfortunately most things that have advantages come with a downside. It's not until you mitigate the downsides that you get the full benefit.
> 
> For example


:blink: Thats the strangest looking sheep I've ever seen.....and I've seen some strange ones :yes:.


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## Bazooka-Joe

gazman said:


> Thats interesting that you say that there is a lot more going on than with a normal taper. I have never used a normal taper but got the hang of the apla taper, before I decided that the clean up time with hot mud was not worth the effort. We dont have taping mud and I dont trust our ap on the flats. Maybe I should try a normal taper.


Gaz Taping mud is just glue in the mud


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## gazman

Double post.


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## gazman

Bazooka-Joe said:


> Gaz Taping mud is just glue in the mud


I figured that Joe.
But if I start adding glue to my AP for taping an it goes pair shaped thats more trouble than I am prepared to go through.


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## cazna

gazman said:


> I figured that Joe.
> But if I start adding glue to my AP for taping an it goes pair shaped thats more trouble than I am prepared to go through.


Good point, I have to say im amazed how much adding to mud that goes on??

Hot mud to taping/all purpose for less shrinkage.
More hot mud to all purpose for gap filling before taping.
More PVA glue added for sticking.
Never miss dyes
And so on, FTD even has a special jizz that has adds to hotmud to make it smoother that he wont tell anyone, I reckon its milk :no:

And none of it stuffs up??? So you all say, But can we trust you :whistling2:

I put to much hotmud to taping once, Started zooka taping........it slowly got more diffacult to use, pump and tape, All 3 bucket fulls went stiff  Had to start again.....it was all 2bucks fault, He suggested it.....One cupfull.......Not 4..........Stuped Kiwi.


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## gazman

cazna said:


> Good point, I have to say im amazed how much adding to mud that goes on??
> 
> Hot mud to taping/all purpose for less shrinkage.
> More hot mud to all purpose for gap filling before taping.
> More PVA glue added for sticking.
> Never miss dyes
> And so on, FTD even has a special jizz that has adds to hotmud to make it smoother that he wont tell anyone, I reckon its milk :no:
> 
> And none of it stuffs up??? So you all say, But can we trust you :whistling2:
> 
> I put to much hotmud to taping once, Started zooka taping........it slowly got more diffacult to use, pump and tape, All 3 bucket fulls went stiff  Had to start again.....it was all 2bucks fault, He suggested it.....One cupfull.......Not 4..........Stuped Kiwi.


Adding citric acid to hot mud slows it down big time. But it affect the molecular structure of the mud. When mud sets if you look at it under a microscope it is made up of crystals that link together. If acid is used the crystals are fractured and the mud weakened.


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## Bazooka-Joe

gazman said:


> Adding citric acid to hot mud slows it down big time. But it affect the molecular structure of the mud. When mud sets if you look at it under a microscope it is made up of crystals that link together. If acid is used the crystals are fractured and the mud weakened.


first I heard Gazzer, what about Nitro Glycerin?


Do an unedited video of your mix for us


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> I put to much hotmud to taping once, Started zooka taping........it slowly got more diffacult to use, pump and tape, All 3 bucket fulls went stiff  Had to start again.....it was all 2bucks fault, He suggested it.....One cupfull.......Not 4..........Stuped Kiwi.


Ah Ha Ha you listened to me









But yes, just one or 2 ,coffee cups


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## Jason

2buckcanuck said:


> Ah Ha Ha you listened to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yes, just one or 2 ,coffee cups


American coffee cups or Australian coffee cups?


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## Kiwiman

I use metric coffee cups.


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Ah Ha Ha you listened to me


 
See post 111.....................I hope that happens to you :whistling2:


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## Bazooka-Joe

2buckcanuck said:


> Ah Ha Ha you listened to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yes, just one or 2 ,coffee cups


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> See post 111.....................I hope that happens to you :whistling2:


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## gazman

Because this house has top angles I cranked out the Apla-Tech. I must say, I dont know of a faster way to top angles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBCBhuoEQA&feature=youtu.be


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## drywallninja

I used one bout 10 years ago on a big commercial job. Wide open spaces that thing kicks a**! I also believe it's a matter of gettin it out dialing it in and creating a system of using it. I'm not so sure I'd dig it in residential. But I'm sure if you get in the groove with it, it would be like any other adjustment you make in life.


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## keke

gazman said:


> Because this house has top angles I cranked out the Apla-Tech. I must say, I dont know of a faster way to top angles.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBCBhuoEQA&feature=youtu.be


........  that means there's no room anymore in your shed for Apla-Tech

PS try a thinner mud to go even faster


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## Bazooka-Joe

keke said:


> ........  that means there's no room anymore in your shed for Apla-Tech
> 
> PS try a thinner mud to go even faster


 curious what size sprayer it is


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