# best certainteed and cgc mud for wipers and boxes?



## jcampbell

Whats the best certainteed and or cgc mud to use for tape coat then finish coat. Someone ordered in some machine mud(cgc) and theres a couple boxes of the certainteed pro roc ultra a/p orange box here at timbermart . Also can get any cgc. Which is better? By hand i tape with 90 then coat with ap usually cgc blue top ap. Wondering best for compound tubes/flushers and boxes.


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## PrecisionTaping

I love my machine mud for absolutely everything!
I don't know why allot of guys on this site don't like it.
It's pretty well the only mud anyone uses in my town.


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## 2buckcanuck

certainteed orange has been discontinued

Certainteed is

yellow - taping 
Red - all purpose
blue - think its the old best mud in the joint (brand)
green - topping

CGC
green - taping
red - all purpose
blue - topping (think their going to discontinue it)

machine mud - specialty mud/all purpose 

I prefer the red certainteed, if stuck using cgc, we mix the MM with the red. (also, throw glue in with your cgc mud when taping with it, too many lifts from it)


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## jcampbell

2buckcanuck said:


> certainteed orange has been discontinued
> 
> Certainteed is
> 
> yellow - taping
> Red - all purpose
> blue - think its the old best mud in the joint (brand)
> green - topping
> 
> CGC
> green - taping
> red - all purpose
> blue - topping (think their going to discontinue it)
> 
> machine mud - specialty mud/all purpose
> 
> I prefer the red certainteed, if stuck using cgc, we mix the MM with the red. (also, throw glue in with your cgc mud when taping with it, too many lifts from it)


What do u use for glue and how much


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## PrecisionTaping

jcampbell said:


> What do u use for glue and how much


You can buy trim-tex mud max at a local supply store







Or just use your typical white school glue.


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> What do u use for glue and how much


white glue

Don't really measure, guessing a inch or two in a Large timmies cup, more if installing vinyl bead.

The CGC mud seems to have more edge lifting on the edge of the tape. Just adding a bit more glue, you have no dry spots to fix. Bottom line, we notice we have more tapes to repair when not adding glue:yes:


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## Philma Crevices

Found this stuff in home depot a ways back, we dont use glue so couldn't tell ya how it is, but cheap for a gal. I think 2buck was going to try it out :whistling2:



http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&langId=-1&keyword=westpac+glue&storeId=10051


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## Philma Crevices

I know I prefer their hotmuds over Sheetrock brand as well, faster edge drying. Our supply house doesn't stock the stuff though


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## jcampbell

Whats your opinion on the easyfill line of mud . Our homehardware stocks the dust away and the regular easyfill ap and also the blue top cgc and purple top dust control.Dont really like using those(dust control) unless im doin a reno on part of a house where i have to keep the mess at a minimum. Feels kinda grainy if that makes any sense.


My girlfriend is a teacher so i have access to cheap school glue in the big jugs for like 13$


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> Whats your opinion on the easyfill line of mud . Our homehardware stocks the dust away and the regular easyfill ap and also the blue top cgc and purple top dust control.Dont really like using those(dust control) unless im doin a reno on part of a house where i have to keep the mess at a minimum. Feels kinda grainy if that makes any sense.
> 
> 
> My girlfriend is a teacher so i have access to cheap school glue in the big jugs for like 13$


The purple mud does suck
blue is really nice stuff, but expensive, use it only for coating (not tape), soft sanding mud also . It's a topping mud

Have your girl friend send some of her $13 JUGS my way:thumbup::whistling2:


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## jcampbell

This is the stuff that is stocked here along wit a few others. U can sand it with your bare hand so im guessing not a good taping mud but a good coating mud


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## jcampbell

HAhA . Trust me....some days i would like to send her away:thumbsup:


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## grudy

jcampbell said:


> This is the stuff that is stocked here along wit a few others. U can sand it with your bare hand so im guessing not a good taping mud but a good coating mud


That's what I use for taping and first coat on beads. I also add white glue to it. Then 2nd and 3rd coat with xtra-light, very nice finish, but soft until primed. Hey what do you guys like for spraying texture out of a hopper. I currently use super white, anything better?


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> This is the stuff that is stocked here along wit a few others. U can sand it with your bare hand so im guessing not a good taping mud but a good coating mud


The red (as pictured), is all purpose, or all aspects may be done with it(tape,coat,skim)...

Taping - we prefer to add a bit more glue to it, it's good, not excellent 

Coating - tends to leave porosity, drys good, medium in sanding

Throwing a few scoops of machine mud in the red cgc, will change the property of the red CGC, main one is it cuts down on the porosity, and makes it a touch softer to sand

Machine mud is the mud "hand tapers" love, too easy to sand, very low in porosity (fish eyes etc)but takes forever to dry. Glue wise, you will get your pay cheque, but don't warranty your work

Certainteed red is like the red CGC (AP), except it has better glue, less porosity, and tougher to sand

IMHO, those that like the tougher muds, know how to run their tools, those that like softer muds, are the ones that sand the [email protected] out of their work, to get it to where it should be:whistling2::thumbsup:


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## jcampbell

Do any of u guys have trouble with the flats shrinking in the bevel edges when second is drying with the premix ap ? I always fill the bevel in tape coat with 90 to avoid that but if you guys don't ...............


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> Do any of u guys have trouble with the flats shrinking in the bevel edges when second is drying with the premix ap ? I always fill the bevel in tape coat with 90 to avoid that but if you guys don't ...............


taping is steps in progression, don't rush it
You actually want your flat tapes to shrink..... Then DRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Avoid hotmuds if you can, 3 months down the road, it will do horrible things to your work:blink:. if you must use it, use it on pre-fill, beads, or patch work. try to use a good AP mud for all things, though sometimes I will use a topping mud for scews (softer mud).Just adding different amounts of water to your mud, will change the sanding properties. Hotmud screws up the sanding properties to all hell.

Yes you might see the joint shrink back a bit when coating after it dries on flats with AP mud. But that's what the rough/buzz sand







helps with (makes level) Then a TIGHT skim coat, not another filling coat..

I feel like I'm back in kindergarten :whistling2:


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## jcampbell

I've never had a problem with my process except I don't have to sand anything in between other than a scrape here and there. Its just really slow compared to u guys with auto tools. The guy that showed me how to tape drywall used 90 for his first 2 coats........now that is slow!


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## jcampbell

I do 3 coats like everyone else and nothing shrinks on me. I've been in a few houses where the guy used ap all through out and after a month or so you could see every seam in the ceiling and I mean every one! I get the occasional hump in a seam cause my 90 is starting to set up but usually that's it and my touch ups r at a minimum as my final coat is a tight skim over everything with a knife. Just curious about about auto tools and all ap mud and its shrinking.


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> I do 3 coats like everyone else and nothing shrinks on me. I've been in a few houses where the guy used ap all through out and after a month or so you could see every seam in the ceiling and I mean every one! I get the occasional hump in a seam cause my 90 is starting to set up but usually that's it and my touch ups r at a minimum as my final coat is a tight skim over everything with a knife. Just curious about about auto tools and all ap mud and its shrinking.


it's all about the environment you work in (wet,hot,cold,humid) weather using hotmud or AP mud. Second error is guys pushing something too fast , taping and coating something in the same day, back wiping tapes etc.....

But lets face it, if you truly had to go back to fix something that has shrunk in or is protruding out, I will take shrunk in any day of the week. So no hotmud for me:whistling2:

Maybe this tip will help you, if it's humid where you are (like sw Ontario is in summer). Pre-fill all your flats and butts 1st with a hotmud. You can guarantee you flat tapes will dry better. When winter comes , and proper heat is supplied, you can stop the pre-fill process, except for butts and gaps of coarse:yes:


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## moore

Finishers...no...Mudders here think i'm nuts for cutting back the loose paper on the butt joints then pre fill them before I tape them....I just .....We all learn the hard way sometimes.:whistling2:


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## jcampbell

The probl we have here taping in late spring summer is no heat is on. The mud/board/ frame is never totally dry intill the wood stove and baseboard heaters are turned on in the fall U know what happens then.........that's a whole diff topic. And yes..... I v out all butt joints and 90 them. Then again I was taught with mesh and 90 . Sorry guys....... I'm tryin to change


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## moore

jcampbell said:


> The probl we have here taping in late spring summer is no heat is on. The mud/board/ frame is never totally dry intill the wood stove and baseboard heaters are turned on in the fall U know what happens then.........that's a whole diff topic. And yes..... I v out all butt joints and 90 them. Then again I was taught with mesh and 90 . Sorry guys....... I'm tryin to change


 I know what happens then! :whistling2:

I'm lucky to have power on the job in the winter much less the proper heat...But I have this little phrase I like to use when they call me to say the house went too chit! It goes like this...
SUCK MY ****!:furious:


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## jcampbell

I won't do a job if there's no heat. Even I the summer if it new construction In the summer I will crank the heat to 30 and leave it overnight. But it gets the moisture out and a dehumidifier helps. Set it up high on horses and let it drain out the window I have a few old baseboard heaters that I get the electricians to hook up temporarily if I can and a couple construction heaters (220) sparkies put the fixture in the stove and dryer outlets if I ask them to .


What does adding soap do to the mud. Never heard tell of that trick till I came on here and read about it. Is it just a trick for boxes to keep pock and eyes controlled? Seems like and odd trick. Think I saw a vid somewhere where the guy put sunlight in the mud.


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## DLSdrywall

I started 2 houses one i taped wen it was 2 degrees celcius i almost froze my hands off, this was on wednesday my foreman is like when you gonna be finished i'm like when the mud thaws out. I only had heat friday afternoon and the supers like your working the weekend right 
i just laughed, if you had heat 2 days ago i would have sanded tomorrow so you can wait biotch. I hate the winter back in my younger days it didn't bother me i use to tape garages in the winter on the side lol now if its too cold i stay home send me to australia!! lol:yes:


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## jcampbell

Wouldn't even attempt that Unless I was hard up for coin I guess. No guarantee tho


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## moore

DLSdrywall said:


> I started 2 houses one i taped wen it was 2 degrees celcius i almost froze my hands off, this was on wednesday my foreman is like when you gonna be finished i'm like when the mud thaws out. I only had heat friday afternoon and the supers like your working the weekend right
> i just laughed, if you had heat 2 days ago i would have sanded tomorrow so you can wait biotch. I hate the winter back in my younger days it didn't bother me i use to tape garages in the winter on the side lol now if its too cold i stay home send me to australia!! lol:yes:


The model home I'm on now has no power. I'm running a generator [of course] space heater/fan/dehumidifer..The g/c Thinks I can finish this one out in the same time frame as one built in july [cell phone g/c] This spec is sold..H/o want's his money..I GET THAT! I DO! I want my money too. But at the bottom of my invoice It will read... No guarantee due to insufficient heating. 

I could write a book on the winter houses...READ THE BUCKET!!!!!
''Application'' Must [maintain] a temp of 50 degrees or above.. 
< Maintain> To keep in an existing state. duh!:blink: 
I priced a home of fair size 2 months ago 3000 sq ft. I explained the importance of having a heat pump up and running before the hanging @ finishing ..I swear to you brothers!!! This is what he told me,,'' maybe I can have a catering service come in with food and drink for you also'' He has called me 6 times in the last 3 weeks I wont answer his calls. He will get his! OH YEAH!!!! I hope he gets his.


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> The model home I'm on now has no power. I'm running a generator [of course] space heater/fan/dehumidifer..The g/c Thinks I can finish this one out in the same time frame as one built in july [cell phone g/c] This spec is sold..H/o want's his money..I GET THAT! I DO! I want my money too. But at the bottom of my invoice It will read... No guarantee due to insufficient heating.
> 
> I could write a book on the winter houses...READ THE BUCKET!!!!!
> ''Application'' Must [maintain] a temp of 50 degrees or above..
> < Maintain> To keep in an existing state. duh!:blink:
> I priced a home of fair size 2 months ago 3000 sq ft. I explained the importance of having a heat pump up and running before the hanging @ finishing ..I swear to you brothers!!! This is what he told me,,'' maybe I can have a catering service come in with food and drink for you also'' He has called me 6 times in the last 3 weeks I wont answer his calls. He will get his! OH YEAH!!!! I hope he gets his.


if you see a catering service on your call display, then you will know he really really wants you:thumbup::whistling2::yes:


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## sdrdrywall

If your getting catered lunch Im heading south:thumbsup:


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> if you see a catering service on your call display, then you will know he really really wants you:thumbup::whistling2::yes:


 Theres much more to this story..He said it's a shame we can send a man into space ,but we cant find anything better than drywall to use in a new home..I said yeah! Plaster ..he asked ..what's plaster?:blink: young buck mid 20s family $$ 
2BUCK That guy that offered you that job at $18 an hour ?? You got his #? between the Mexicans and the young bucks that don't know there ass from a hole in the ground ..I'll go teacher at $25 an hour ,,and come out ahead.


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## moore

sdrdrywall said:


> If your getting catered lunch Im heading south:thumbsup:


 you got ALL my hanging! and I will fill your cooler before you go home!:yes::thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> Theres much more to this story..He said it's a shame we can send a man into space ,but we cant find anything better than drywall to use in a new home..I said yeah! Plaster ..he asked ..what's plaster?:blink: young buck mid 20s family $$
> 2BUCK That guy that offered you that job at $18 an hour ?? You got his #? between the Mexicans and the young bucks that don't know there ass from a hole in the ground ..I'll go teacher at $25 an hour ,,and come out ahead.


I hear you Moore, only problem is, I started out at moore than $18 thirty years ago........

Actually I met up with said company owner today, though I did not know he was the owner, I was about ready to stab his fat arse with my trowel today. .. (don't walk away and ignore me when I'm winning a argument:furious

Tomorrow should be interesting:whistling2:


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## Newagestucco

2buckcanuck said:


> white glue
> 
> Don't really measure, guessing a inch or two in a Large timmies cup, more if installing vinyl bead.
> 
> The CGC mud seems to have more edge lifting on the edge of the tape. Just adding a bit more glue, you have no dry spots to fix. Bottom line, we notice we have more tapes to repair when not adding glue:yes:


you add glue to your all purpose cgc


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## 2buckcanuck

Newagestucco said:


> you add glue to your all purpose cgc


Depends on the job, and weather we like the builder or not:whistling2:

With the certainteed RED, then no, unless we install vinyl bead (bull nose). If we get the CGC red,,,, then yes, we add glue.

We find you get a lot of edge lifting on the tapes with the CGC red. And it's just not us that find that. Talking to our union rep a few months ago (old high school bud), he said a lot of other tapers were having the same problem. Lift will appear ANYWHERE at random, middle of a 15 foot long flat etc...... you can tell there was mud under the tape, but it did not adhere...

So when you don't use the glue (like in current house), you find your self constantly fixing tape lifts on the edge. Use the glue,,,, no fixing:thumbup:

No matter what type of AP mud we use though, we will add glue for vinyl bead, or paper bead if we like the builder, and on no-coat on vaults or cathedrals:yes:


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## jcampbell

So im doing up a material list for the house im working on for board and mud. Board is being delivered tomorow to stand for a week with the heat pump cranked. I asked my supplier what brand taping mud he can get....he asked what is taping mud. Anyhow, i have to order in what i want so im trying to give him a list. I worked out a ratio of taping/finish at 1-2 per 1000sqf . Only 100f of bullnose. The entire house is 8847sqf ballpark. So... that works out to 9 taping and 18 finish and 8x 500f rolls tape. Keep in mind im changing my whole process from m&#h and 90 first coat by hand to paper and taping/ap all the way with auto tools . I just dont want to be stuck with a ****load of mud at the end. I cant just walk in and grab some taping mud if im short either although i can get ap red certainteed or cgc red or blue. I guess i have some glue on the way also. Seems like a lot of mud but i do mostly renos around here and only a couple new houses that i build a year. I usually just grab what i needed at the time and if i was short i just got more. Never really kept track. Figured i would ask you guys to see what you think and if im way off let me know. And yes i can take all the jokes and poking fun.:thumbsup: videos soon to follow 2buck.................


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## Newagestucco

jcampbell said:


> So im doing up a material list for the house im working on for board and mud. Board is being delivered tomorow to stand for a week with the heat pump cranked. I asked my supplier what brand taping mud he can get....he asked what is taping mud. Anyhow, i have to order in what i want so im trying to give him a list. I worked out a ratio of taping/finish at 1-2 per 1000sqf . Only 100f of bullnose. The entire house is 8847sqf ballpark. So... that works out to 9 taping and 18 finish and 8x 500f rolls tape. Keep in mind im changing my whole process from m&#h and 90 first coat by hand to paper and taping/ap all the way with auto tools . I just dont want to be stuck with a ****load of mud at the end. I cant just walk in and grab some taping mud if im short either although i can get ap red certainteed or cgc red or blue. I guess i have some glue on the way also. Seems like a lot of mud but i do mostly renos around here and only a couple new houses that i build a year. I usually just grab what i needed at the time and if i was short i just got more. Never really kept track. Figured i would ask you guys to see what you think and if im way off let me know. And yes i can take all the jokes and poking fun.:thumbsup: videos soon to follow 2buck.................


When I due my count 
Roll of tape 500 lin ft usualy covers 1500 sq ft
Mud I go 3 boxes per 1000 sq ft of board
I coat my but wide and I have alot of beads 
This way if you supply you wont count you're self short


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## 2buckcanuck

jcampbell said:


> So im doing up a material list for the house im working on for board and mud. Board is being delivered tomorow to stand for a week with the heat pump cranked. I asked my supplier what brand taping mud he can get....he asked what is taping mud. Anyhow, i have to order in what i want so im trying to give him a list. I worked out a ratio of taping/finish at 1-2 per 1000sqf . Only 100f of bullnose. The entire house is 8847sqf ballpark. So... that works out to 9 taping and 18 finish and 8x 500f rolls tape. Keep in mind im changing my whole process from m&#h and 90 first coat by hand to paper and taping/ap all the way with auto tools . I just dont want to be stuck with a ****load of mud at the end. I cant just walk in and grab some taping mud if im short either although i can get ap red certainteed or cgc red or blue. I guess i have some glue on the way also. Seems like a lot of mud but i do mostly renos around here and only a couple new houses that i build a year. I usually just grab what i needed at the time and if i was short i just got more. Never really kept track. Figured i would ask you guys to see what you think and if im way off let me know. And yes i can take all the jokes and poking fun.:thumbsup: videos soon to follow 2buck.................


You can go with all cgc red to start. All purpose is what it means, tape coat finish. dries ok, can leave porosity behind, sands with a 150 to 180 grit. You can add glue if you want, for tape, beads or no-coat.

CGC green is the taping mud, but it makes the zook feel a hundred pounds heavier, need 80 to 100 grit to sand it, impossible not to leave porosity.

Blue CGC,,, topping mud, you don't need it, just cost more, that's why supply stores push it at you. Learn to skim your final coats tight.

Certainteed is the better mud IMO, but your work better be smooth as chit to use it. less porosity, tougher to sand, but dries fast:yes:


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## Consistency

2buckcanuck said:


> The red (as pictured), is all purpose, or all aspects may be done with it(tape,coat,skim)...
> 
> Taping - we prefer to add a bit more glue to it, it's good, not excellent
> 
> Coating - tends to leave porosity, drys good, medium in sanding
> 
> Throwing a few scoops of machine mud in the red cgc, will change the property of the red CGC, main one is it cuts down on the porosity, and makes it a touch softer to sand
> 
> Machine mud is the mud "hand tapers" love, too easy to sand, very low in porosity (fish eyes etc)but takes forever to dry. Glue wise, you will get your pay cheque, but don't warranty your work
> 
> Certainteed red is like the red CGC (AP), except it has better glue, less porosity, and tougher to sand
> 
> IMHO, those that like the tougher muds, know how to run their tools, those that like softer muds, are the ones that sand the [email protected] out of their work, to get it to where it should be:whistling2::thumbsup:


:yes:

CGC red is garbage and I still don't understand how home depot sells so much of it since it is impossible to skim coat with it, it easily rips when pulling hard and quite impossible to level with itself.

Certainteed red spreads so well and sparkles after the 3rd/finishing coat. Love it!


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