# Where would you start??



## Drywall_King

Where would you start and why? My old man and I have all the answers for this.... i wanna hear everyone else tell there story.. thanks


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## mudslingr

From what I can see here I would start over the window above the date in your pic on the ceiling of course. Looks like the easiest place to get good measurements from and to continue after.


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## [email protected]

Start with the ceiling, naturally, the longest sides first and second, then the two short sides (easier to pull measurements). Try to come just past flush of the offset in the left side to avoid a notch cut, even if you wind up with a rip at the bottom.


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## M T Buckets Painting

It's kind of hard to tell from the picture but, if that is a skylight near the vault line, I would start on the inside of it. Cuz it's eazier to do it now rather than later. 
No matter what I would start at the top of the vault and work my way down taking accurate measurements and triangulating all of them, to make sure all lines are straight.


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## [email protected]

MT, hanging vaults top down is insane, especially over vapor barrier. Sooner or later, somebody lets an end slip at the least. At worst, a sheet gets clean away and somebody winds up hurt.


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## M T Buckets Painting

[email protected] said:


> MT, hanging vaults top down is insane, especially over vapor barrier. Sooner or later, somebody lets an end slip at the least. At worst, a sheet gets clean away and somebody winds up hurt.


 I've only hung 2 vaults and both of them were a royal pain. On both occasions there was no vapor barrier. Never had a sheet slip away. Maybe there is a good reason that I don't hang very often, besides the fact that I don't make enough money at it.

After all, I am really just a dumb painter:yes:


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## [email protected]

Painters aren't dumb, MT. They're smart enough to not have to wrangle 16 footers, after all. But hanging any vault top down is practically suicide. By starting at the wall, which is virtually always straighter than the top angle, you can allow gravity to support the sheet at the wall. Likewise, the next course/s rest atop the edge of the sheet below. Much easier to pull measurements with a pointed butt off the wall as well.


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## DSJOHN

Darren,when we hang slopes we always use cleats after the 1st sheet is hung[like a piece of strapping]. Put one on each end ,in about 2feet, on the installed sheet and let about 1 1/2 " over hang sheet so you can slide sheet youre hanging into the slot . I use 2 1/2 " screws to hold strapping[because you are going through 3/4" strap and 1/2 " rock into framing]. If you hang bottom 1st its easier but other way still works, after you do this once you .ll wish youi always did!!!If its not clear---what I do is put the strapping on top of the installed sheet over framing you can see and screw it to installed sheet leaving it overhanging to accept other sheet to slide up against 1st sheet and it holds the sheet so you only have to hold bottom or top depending on where you start!!


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## mudslingr

DSJOHN said:


> Darren,when we hang slopes we always use cleats after the 1st sheet is hung[like a piece of strapping]. Put one on each end ,in about 2feet, on the installed sheet and let about 1 1/2 " over hang sheet so you can slide sheet youre hanging into the slot . I use 2 1/2 " screws to hold strapping[because you are going through 3/4" strap and 1/2 " rock into framing]. If you hang bottom 1st its easier but other way still works, after you do this once you .ll wish youi always did!!!If its not clear---what I do is put the strapping on top of the installed sheet over framing you can see and screw it to installed sheet leaving it overhanging to accept other sheet to slide up against 1st sheet and it holds the sheet so you only have to hold bottom or top depending on where you start!!


 Sounds like extra work but a good idea.:thumbsup:


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## moore

would start by tearing all the plastic off of ceiling.


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## 2buckcanuck

well since your from canuck land,and you have that stuff that accumulates on the roof that is called snow.You want it so the peak has a full sheet at the top,no strips at the top,they can crack out down the road ,and the taper could end up boo hooing like a painter if you put the strips up high .
So you can either be superman and start at the top which is nuts .(but some guys do) .What I use to do when I rocked was measure down form the peak to see what the 4 foot runs were .Lets say for arguments sake it's 10 feet .I would start with a 2 foot strip from the bottom (wall) and work my way to the top so you end up with a 4 foot sheet at the top .
Some allow a 3 foot minimum from the top of the peak .so from your pic I would start from the left wall that has the longest run from peak to wall ,and get a proper calculation to get a bevell to bevell run to the top .you will half to hook the one wall to the left .Looks like the front wall is over 4 foot high too ,so you could start a second run there too ,starting maybe with a 16" or 12" strip .don't know till you measure .
bottom line,full sheets up high,strips near the bottom,not at the top


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## 2buckcanuck

M T Buckets Painting said:


> I've only hung 2 vaults and both of them were a royal pain. On both occasions there was no vapor barrier. Never had a sheet slip away. Maybe there is a good reason that I don't hang very often, besides the fact that I don't make enough money at it.
> 
> After all, I am really just a dumb painter:yes:


your not a dumb painter,you came he to learn stuff and ask valid questions ,that's all good in my books ,and that probably shocks the crap out of you hearing that from me .:thumbsup:
It's the internet world here,not the real world,it's just fun to take some pokes at the painters on here,,,,,,,,,,oh hold on,,,,,,I do that in the real world too


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## SlimPickins

If working with a partner without a lift, then start over the guys head on that long sheet against the wall without any triangles in it, giving something to pull numbers off of. If working with a hoist, start in the peak. I can't tell what's happening with the hip over near the guys head, but the framing looks kinda whacked out.

Option B would be to start pouring gasoline on the floor?:thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

Snow load or extreme temp swings, the size of the final rip shouldn't have an effect on the cracking issues. That is for those that have finally graduated from roll type specialty tapes. Some will recall I pooh-pooh all your pretend angle tapes in favor of TrimTex adjustable Inside Corner. We use the 10' sticks vs. the 250' roll. It's got a short learning curve. Some fight it at first, but I have many converts. Since switching 8-9 years ago, I have not had but 2 or 3 vault call backs. With No-Coat, StraitFlex and all the other roll products, it was 1 in 5 vaults failing in the first year.

Most of these vault failures are/were also due to the fact that all our wides(2x8 on up) are GDF(green Doug Fir) or green Hem-Fir. This green lumber can shrink 3/8" over 8', so our 28' rafters could shrink well over an inch in length. But try and tell that to a builder or HO when you're fixing a crack 19' up, over Aunt Millie's antique roll-top desk.

PS: The strapping idea isn't really needed. If both men get their bottom edge in contact with the rafter and slide down to the rail below, and get theit first two fasteners in that bottom rail, no problem. But a rookie,......can get you a trip to the chiropractor.


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## MeatBallDryWall

> From what I can see here I would start over the window above the date in your pic on the ceiling of course. Looks like the easiest place to get good measurements from and to continue after.


I agree with this statement.


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## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> Snow load or extreme temp swings, the size of the final rip shouldn't have an effect on the cracking issues. That is for those that have finally graduated from roll type specialty tapes. Some will recall I pooh-pooh all your pretend angle tapes in favor of TrimTex adjustable Inside Corner. We use the 10' sticks vs. the 250' roll. It's got a short learning curve. Some fight it at first, but I have many converts. Since switching 8-9 years ago, I have not had but 2 or 3 vault call backs. With No-Coat, StraitFlex and all the other roll products, it was 1 in 5 vaults failing in the first year.
> 
> Most of these vault failures are/were also due to the fact that all our wides(2x8 on up) are GDF(green Doug Fir) or green Hem-Fir. This green lumber can shrink 3/8" over 8', so our 28' rafters could shrink well over an inch in length. But try and tell that to a builder or HO when you're fixing a crack 19' up, over Aunt Millie's antique roll-top desk.
> 
> PS: The strapping idea isn't really needed. If both men get their bottom edge in contact with the rafter and slide down to the rail below, and get theit first two fasteners in that bottom rail, no problem. But a rookie,......can get you a trip to the chiropractor.


So how much snow do you get in kansas, more than Canada:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

Ok drywall king,now I have a question for you ?
Why is only some of the ceiling strapped,not all of it ?
plus I can't see if the strapping runs all the way to the window on the left.
you ran your sheets with the strapping,treating them like stand ups ????maybe .Ive seen some guys do that .


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## SlimPickins

When's the OP gonna pop his head back in here?


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## Final touch drywall

I would start by finishing the insulation.All heat loss is through your ceiling.I understand code says 4ft off exterior walls.but that is only sub par in my book.


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## SlimPickins

Final touch drywall said:


> I would start by finishing the insulation.All heat loss is through your ceiling.I understand code says 4ft off exterior walls.but that is only sub par in my book.


You wouldn't wait until the rock is in and then blow it?


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## 2buckcanuck

Final touch drywall said:


> I would start by finishing the insulation.All heat loss is through your ceiling.I understand code says 4ft off exterior walls.but that is only sub par in my book.


It is finished,that's green roxsul up there .(which I hate) Maybe it's just a canuck type insulation ,not sure,guess most people use to seeing pink or yellow :yes:


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## Final touch drywall

all I see is whats coming off the exterior wall.Wheres the other you speak of ?


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## 2buckcanuck

uuhhm,the insulation is dark green,if there were nothing there,you would see up into the roof .Where's drywall king any how,he can explain ,even tell you the R factor too ,and tell us where he started .So we can tell him he was wrong ,lol :jester:


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## DSJOHN

SlimPickins said:


> You wouldn't wait until the rock is in and then blow it?


That was my guess too,,Does look like an inverted hip? NO? I believe thats why he,s asking where the 1st sheet should start,:yes:


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## SlimPickins

DSJOHN said:


> That was my guess too,,Does look like an inverted hip? NO? I believe thats why he,s asking where the 1st sheet should start,:yes:


Yeah, I thought it looked like a hip too, but then there's something weird going on that makes it look like it's just some sort of impossible framing. I ran into that in a house once (well, not only once but this time especially bad). It was like an MC Escher drawing, there was no way to actually get sheetrock on it!


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## eastex1963

Tell the dumbass that framed it to come hang the ceiling. Call you back when he's ready for the walls to be rocked! :whistling2:


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## moore

thanks darren? i just put 200' of no coat on today. worried about this house as it is. no sleep tonight. i will try that on the next house. i've been lucky. no end of the year call backs for the no coat [lately] have had to fix walkin truss cracks. when i walk into these ,i look at the vaults /off angles. i do see small bubbles, tape almost popin loose, h/o says nothin, but they see it too . when it does pop loose . they will call.


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## moore

start at the peak [the middle] work your way down? 
gotta think like a cow.


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## [email protected]

moore said:


> thanks darren? i just put 200' of no coat on today. worried about this house as it is. no sleep tonight. i will try that on the next house. i've been lucky. no end of the year call backs for the no coat [lately] have had to fix walkin truss cracks. when i walk into these ,i look at the vaults /off angles. i do see small bubbles, tape almost popin loose, h/o says nothin, but they see it too . when it does pop loose . they will call.


Ahh, you're welcome. BTW, I just came from a house, a front to back split, that we did about two years ago. I tried a different taping crew who fought me tooth and nail on using Adjustable Inside Corner. Evidently they were throwing it out and going and buying NoCoat outta threir own pocket, because I have an houry guy over there right now, pulling out a thirty foot run of that %$#&^^%$$# NoCoat, no-stick garbage. They did about 6 houses for me before I fired the azzes for pulling up to the job, all Jeff Spicoli-like, opening their truck door and letting a cloud of reefer smoke roll out on my contractor. WBS tapers. You can have 'em.


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## 2buckcanuck

[email protected] said:


> Ahh, you're welcome. BTW, I just came from a house, a front to back split, that we did about two years ago. I tried a different taping crew who fought me tooth and nail on using Adjustable Inside Corner. Evidently they were throwing it out and going and buying NoCoat outta threir own pocket, because I have an houry guy over there right now, pulling out a thirty foot run of that %$#&^^%$$# NoCoat, no-stick garbage. They did about 6 houses for me before I fired the azzes for pulling up to the job, all Jeff Spicoli-like, opening their truck door and letting a cloud of reefer smoke roll out on my contractor. WBS tapers. You can have 'em.


Do you have a link for that ,I google "TrimTex adjustable Inside Corner" and just come up with the trim tex home page .
The DWC I work for says their getting call backs on the no-coat now,he thinks straight flex is the answer .
I'm like....I don't think so..........:whistling2:
A exact link would be nice,plz,Then I (others) can be certain on which product your talking about .:yes:


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## smisner50s

Sheet rock sells a paper faced metal tapeon bead with a flexable inside hindge point.I got ahold of them and they sent me a ton of all there bead samples in 6 inch lengths.they have more than one would think.I did the same with trimtex and no coat .so I have so many choices to show clients its give them all kinds of option.:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> Sheet rock sells a paper faced metal tapeon bead with a flexable inside hindge point.I got ahold of them and they sent me a ton of all there bead samples in 6 inch lengths.they have more than one would think.I did the same with trimtex and no coat .so I have so many choices to show clients its give them all kinds of option.:thumbsup:


So do you have a link too then .


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## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> So do you have a link too then .


I will see what I can come up with.my computer skills are rough.might take me a few


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## Drywall_King

Final touch drywall said:


> I would start by finishing the insulation.All heat loss is through your ceiling.I understand code says 4ft off exterior walls.but that is only sub par in my book.


Insulation is blowen in after the cielings in the house are completed... experts say not to start taping till the ceilings are blowen.. because the extra weight can cause problems if taped before


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## rebel20

2buckcanuck said:


> Do you have a link for that ,I google "TrimTex adjustable Inside Corner" and just come up with the trim tex home page .
> The DWC I work for says their getting call backs on the no-coat now,he thinks straight flex is the answer .
> I'm like....I don't think so..........:whistling2:
> A exact link would be nice,plz,Then I (others) can be certain on which product your talking about .:yes:


here it is
http://www.trimtexinc.com/product_catalog.php?cat_display=showproduct&id=125

here from Phillips
http://www.phillipsmfg.com/products/vbt/adjustable.htm


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## mudslingr

rebel20 said:


> here it is
> http://www.trimtexinc.com/product_catalog.php?cat_display=showproduct&id=125
> 
> here from Phillips
> http://www.phillipsmfg.com/products/vbt/adjustable.htm


 I've used the trimtex many times, not by choice, over the past 15 years. It's alright but the middle CAN end up splitting on you if it is manipulated too much . Manufactures' instructions call for spray glue and staples. That can get pricey !

I've never had a problem with Ultraflex other than running out of it. And it is very forgiving on bad angles.


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## SlimPickins

Man, I've seen No-coat hold up under some incredible circumstances, like turning from a squared off vault into a flat cove without cracking or separating. Anything more than that can't be expected of a product and someone/something else needs to bear the brunt of the responsibility.


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## smisner50s

2buckcanuck said:


> So do you have a link too then .


 ok buck here is what i came up with..sheetrocks stuff is called beaded flex.If you go on www.nocoat.com and www.trim-tex.com and www.usg.com fill out a few questions they will send you all this stuff and also techional data sheets.im glad i did got a lot of nice sample peaces that i did not even know about


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## Capt-sheetrock

there is a product called x-crack,,, I had to eat crow over this one once,,, do a search on it, its the best product for a poorly framed peak like this one.


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## 2buckcanuck

rebel20 said:


> here it is
> http://www.trimtexinc.com/product_catalog.php?cat_display=showproduct&id=125
> 
> here from Phillips
> http://www.phillipsmfg.com/products/vbt/adjustable.htm


thank you rebel
yes Ive seen that stuff before,I could repeat what mudslingr said about it,very labour intensive ,and it takes a ton of mud to finish it too.It has a certain look to it when it's finished too,it screams out reveal line,which some people don't like .
I used it down in Windsor Ontario,they called it magic bead .Maybe thats what they called it in Detroit too,who knows.Don't think I would want to use that product again to be honest .


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## moore

good to know buck. i still want to try it.


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> ok buck here is what i came up with..sheetrocks stuff is called beaded flex.If you go on www.nocoat.com and www.trim-tex.com and www.usg.com fill out a few questions they will send you all this stuff and also techional data sheets.im glad i did got a lot of nice sample peaces that i did not even know about


I see your wife let you use your camera:jester:
I would keep away from the metal tape on bead,guessing it's the one that looks like no-coat but has metal in it .Even on walls it pops off or it cracks when they install the trim .Thanks for the pics though.I was digging though the goodie box at our local supply store ,checking out all the different bead .Guess I should of checked out all the no-coat sizes too .....
well ,now I got to google captains x-crack,see what I can find:yes:


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## smisner50s

That xcrack is pretty neet stuff..I just checked it out.


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## 2buckcanuck

smisner50s said:


> That xcrack is pretty neet stuff..I just checked it out.


well share the link smisner50s,don't be greedy:jester:


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## 2buckcanuck

here's 3 links I found,and like normal,we have gone off topic,,,lol
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Corner-Tape
http://straitflex.com/downloads/literature/X_Crack_Brochure_WEB.pdf
http://www.toolsfortrades.com/Tapes__all_Kinds.html


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## mudslingr

2buckcanuck said:


> here's 3 links I found,and like normal,we have gone off topic,,,lol
> http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Corner-Tape
> http://straitflex.com/downloads/literature/X_Crack_Brochure_WEB.pdf
> http://www.toolsfortrades.com/Tapes__all_Kinds.html


Just checked out the X Crack link. Looks like it would do the job.
Isn't this similar in theory to resilient channel ? Or is it better for some reason ?


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## 2buckcanuck

this is the straight flex they got us using now,it is a paper faced product,guess it's call mid flex .the one thing I will say for it is it takes a extremely tight load when coating it.One coat can finish it on knock down ceilings .It almost lays as flat as paper tape .So far it's one down fall is it is not a good back up to do outside 45's ,no-coat is better for that . http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Corner-Tape/Strait-Flex-Mid-Flex


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## Bevelation

Holy crap has this thread ever gone off-topic.

My boarders would flip out at the insulator and tell him to tighten up his poly before they hang any sheet on any part of that ceiling.


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## evolve991

Its hard to see exactly how those points meet behind the plastic but I assume it extends beyond the switchback to the ridge.
I'd start with a rip along the wall over the door and make the upper run big enough to catch both angles with no T joints. Then I'd 'fill' the bumpout over the double windows with the rolled edge a quarter inch above the wall to the left so I could get a full sheet,with no flagging around that corner,with the next run.That would also put the long joint above that speaker for the finisher. All of this would be AFTER making it known that hanging a ceiling without glue,because of the plastic:furious:, is against my better judgement and nail/screw pops are inevitable.....gravity SUX man......

Blow in insulation is best but I don't see how the insulators would get access TO blow it in.:blink:


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## rebel20

2buckcanuck said:


> uuhhm,the insulation is dark green,if there were nothing there,you would see up into the roof .Where's drywall king any how,he can explain ,even tell you the R factor too ,and tell us where he started .So we can tell him he was wrong ,lol :jester:


I would imagine he will tell you he started over the window where the date is of course on the ceiling:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck

So drywall king,where did you start ,the suspense is killing me:yes::whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

He started getting upset at the impossible framing, loose vapor barrier, that guy sticking his head in the photos, and life in general....so he packed his drywall van full of beer and drove to sunny Meh-Hee-Co where he's now a professional surfer.


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## Drywall_King

I Have Pictures of the vaulted ceiling and they are too big to upload gotta resize them.. will do soon


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## evolve991

Its been BUGGIN' me man....now I'm back to hanging in my sleep....those dreaded words echoing over and over ....." Ya done yet?"......


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## moore

He didn't get the job.


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## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> He didn't get the job.


must be too busy chasing sheep !!!!!!:jester:


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## moore

where the f**k did you start!!:blink:


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## grid ninja

no mater were i started i wood be done that day


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## moore

grid ninja said:


> no mater were i started i wood be done that day


wood you ? no mater what?


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## 2buckcanuck

Drywall_King said:


> I Have Pictures of the vaulted ceiling and they are too big to upload gotta resize them.. will do soon


Still waiting :whistling2:


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## moore

Where did you start?


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> Where did you start?


:laughing: :lol:


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## Drywall_King

SlimPickins said:


> :laughing: :lol:


Wow it was like 5 years ago now, actully that ceiling was a premium job ... I started in any one of the areas because the ceiling is sections that dont need a starting area because they all meet up in the no-coat... Now i cant find the pics ... :whistling2:


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## Drywall_King

SlimPickins said:


> You wouldn't wait until the rock is in and then blow it?


If you look only the ends are insulated, wich leaves just enough room for the midget to crawl into the ceiling with a hose to blow


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## scottktmrider

I agree thats stupid to put polly up.Alot of times when the ceiling josts change directions like that you have to put backing in and in this case is imposible without screwing up the polly.


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## Drywall_King

To everyone the day has come i found the pictures you have been waiting 2 years for...


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## Mudshark

Aah - that explains the framing now. Hard to figure in that first photo. Looks like a good boarding job. :thumbsup:


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## Drywall_King

Mudshark said:


> Aah - that explains the framing now. Hard to figure in that first photo. Looks like a good boarding job. :thumbsup:


That job was in Oliver, BC mate


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## Kiwiman

Drywall_King said:


> To everyone the day has come i found the pictures you have been waiting 2 years for...


I've never seen anyone put a plastic barrier between the board and framing before (except for USA & Canadian TV programs), is that common practice over in OZ?


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## super rocker

Kiwiman said:


> I've never seen anyone put a plastic barrier between the board and framing before (except for USA & Canadian TV programs), is that common practice over in OZ?


 


It was 30 years ago, but it only trapped moisture so thank goodness it went away.


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## Drywall_King

Kiwiman said:


> I've never seen anyone put a plastic barrier between the board and framing before (except for USA & Canadian TV programs), is that common practice over in OZ?


Naa mate that was in British Columbia, Canada they do the vapor barrier because of the cold weather, i guess it stops moinsture to hit the gyproc,


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## saskataper

Our houses have to be sealed air tight to prevent drafts and to keep the warm moist air from escaping and condensing In the walls or attic. It's very important when the temp outside is -40 and any moisture in the air freezes instantly.


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## saskataper

I've often wondered where else in the world gets the temperature extremes that we do in Saskatchewan, for example today will be around 30C (90F) which is typical for this time of year but we will hit 40 occasionally, then in January we will get -30C and occasionally get -40 and I think the record low is something stupid like -52. So you can imagine what that will do to a house that's not built properly.


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