# Textured Ceiling change to Smooth Finish



## wagsgt (Jun 27, 2014)

Hello,

We have stippled ceilings and would like to change to smooth finish. I have had various opinions how this should be done.

1. Hang new 1/2" over
2. Wet and scrape off, fix/sand joints,etc
3. Knock peaks off then apply 3 skim coats over entire ceiling.

#3 seems like it would be easiest. Would there be any CONS to doing it this way?

Other thoughts/opinions?

Thanks in advance!


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

#3 is the way I would approach. Or Fresco Harmony would work in 2 coats and a sealer, then no need for paint and have an awesome look:thumbsup:


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## lrees (Jan 22, 2013)

Hire a plasterer


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Would hang 1/4" board over it... Would have more time in skimming it three times than hanging and finishing a couple joints.


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

I just did a similar ceiling. The approach I used was to power sand with my Festool Planex thumbup & then coat. You can probably rent a power sander & vacuum, if you don't already own one. If you used a setting compound (like USG Easy Sand), you'd be able to complete this ceiling in a day.


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

Of course, Chris might be correct about using Fresco Harmony! :thumbsup:
 I haven't been brave enough to try it yet.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

#3 is how I do it. Base coat with durabond. Then top with any topping Can be done in a day.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Wimpy65 said:


> I just did a similar ceiling. The approach I used was to power sand with my Festool Planex thumbup & then coat. You can probably rent a power sander & vacuum, if you don't already own one. If you used a setting compound (like USG Easy Sand), you'd be able to complete this ceiling in a day.


that's what I would do:thumbup:


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## lrees (Jan 22, 2013)

Wimpy65 said:


> I just did a similar ceiling. The approach I used was to power sand with my Festool Planex thumbup & then coat. You can probably rent a power sander & vacuum, if you don't already own one. If you used a setting compound (like USG Easy Sand), you'd be able to complete this ceiling in a day.


If a person uses easy sand.. are u saying sand first with power sander and then easy sand... or easy sand as the first step?


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

thefinisher said:


> Would hang 1/4" board over it... Would have more time in skimming it three times than hanging and finishing a couple joints.


I respectfully disagree TF, for those who have not developed trowel skills this is an area where you are missing out on an opportunity to make some serious profit. Unless it is a huge ceiling in a complete demo and remodel, I always push for skimming, preferably fresco harmony.

Either way, I still find it more efficient to skim than laminate.

Take a 15 x 15 foot ceiling, 225 sq ft. In the amount of time it takes to prep and hang 6 sheets of rock you can have your first coat of durabond on and set. Second coat takes even less time and then a tight skim and done. Usually doesn't even need sanding.

OR... Hit with base coat of fresco harmony, less than two hours for one guy, come back next morning, second coat harmony, seal in the afternoon and done.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Be aware that textured ceilings that are more than about 25 years old can contain asbestos. It's a good idea to take a small sample and have it tested.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

saskataper said:


> Be aware that textured ceilings that are more than about 25 years old can contain asbestos. It's a good idea to take a small sample and have it tested.



This is one reason why I always prefer to laminate. Also my shoulder and neck are hooped from ceiling work so I would rather hang and finish a few joints than blow out my shoulder and neck.


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

lrees said:


> If a person uses easy sand.. are u saying sand first with power sander and then easy sand... or easy sand as the first step?


Yes, I would still sand the ceiling. If you knock down the high spots, the basecoat doesn't need to be as thick. Of course if you have asbestos concerns, you could skip the sanding & just go thick on the basecoat.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

You can sand on that all you want but with paint it is going to be tough going power sander or not all you will do is knock off the high spots, It doesn't look to be a heavy stipple I would just scrape it down the best I could and skim coat. Try a short handle floor scraper with the razor blade edge and work it easy not to gouge the underlying plaster or what ever else is the base for the stipple finish. If you layer it with rock then you have to deal with ring angles also. If I were to layer it I sure would not use no 3/8" either chances of pulling the screws through when hanging it use at least 1/2". Then also if you layer it you have to deal with any ceiling fixtures or the electrical boxes. 
http://www.uline.com/Product/ProductPopUp.aspx?picture=H-3451


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

How solid Is the ceiling board? Can you smear 2 or 3 coats of mud over it with out It falling loose ?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

wagsgt said:


> Hello,
> 
> We have stippled ceilings and would like to change to smooth finish. I have had various opinions how this should be done.
> 
> ...


That's turkey track! Crowes foot! P/C SANDER ! would be your best bet ...sand it down to the original finish which I'm positive won't be pretty ! If It's been painted ? no big deal!


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

moore said:


> That's turkey track! Crowes foot! P/C SANDER ! would be your best bet ...sand it down to the original finish which I'm positive won't be pretty ! If It's been painted ? no big deal!


He better stock up on some good 80 grit disks then maybe even 60 if you can find them, cause they are gonna get gummed up real fast and it is a grueling task no matter how you sand it.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

This works best to take down the peaks.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> He better stock up on some good 80 grit disks then maybe even 60 if you can find them, cause they are gonna get gummed up real fast and it is a grueling task no matter how you sand it.


hand Textured ceilings died in 1970 ...I wish they would just let It be!!


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

mld said:


> I respectfully disagree TF, for those who have not developed trowel skills this is an area where you are missing out on an opportunity to make some serious profit. Unless it is a huge ceiling in a complete demo and remodel, I always push for skimming, preferably fresco harmony.
> 
> Either way, I still find it more efficient to skim than laminate.
> 
> ...


Just easier for us to laminate and we charge the same price generally. My guys would hang 6 sheets in less than an hour. I could have 6 sheets skimmed out in an hour or less ready for sanding. Come back the next day with the PC and be done in 10 minutes :thumbsup:. So a 6 sheet project can be done in 3 hours of work time or less....


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

"My guys" is just me, so I do what works for me. If I had full time help or cheap labor I might look at things differently. Not slamming anyone, it's just allot different here than down there.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

mld said:


> "My guys" is just me, so I do what works for me. If I had full time help or cheap labor I might look at things differently. Not slamming anyone, it's just allot different here than down there.


Probably would send my in house white guy to hang the 6 boards. He would get paid the same as my mexicans either way. Would take him longer but oh well, that's why I pay by the job and not by the hour. No such thing as cheap labor here..... its just a different labor rate all together even for white guys.


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## Toolnut (Aug 17, 2012)

OK I just googled Fresco Harmony and are you guys really using it?


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

Yes sir, great product. Not saying it's for everyone, but it's a great addition to your arsenal.


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## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

We usually just do two coats hot mud, touch up and then do a light trowel texture. Going to order my first batch of Fresco Harmony. I think it's going to be a great option for the ugly ceiling textures.


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## desertmud (May 20, 2012)

Sorry for the bad picture. Still trying to figure how to post pics from iphone


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## wagsgt (Jun 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. House was built in 94 so no worry of asbestos. From what I'm hearing the previous owners chose that finish. 
I used dustless sander with some 80 grit to a bedroom and it took all high spots off and some level off. Going over soon to skim first coat. These seems like it will be the best way.

Thanks


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Just easier for us to laminate and we charge the same price generally. My guys would hang 6 sheets in less than an hour. I could have 6 sheets skimmed out in an hour or less ready for sanding. Come back the next day with the PC and be done in 10 minutes :thumbsup:. So a 6 sheet project can be done in 3 hours of work time or less....


Ya might want to let that ceiling set for about a week before you call the painters. Cause that's about how long It's going to take for that hot mud to cure! :thumbsup:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

:thumbsup:you chose correctly IMO. A new overlay with rock takes longer than someone may have said. First off you will need to make adjustments for any light fixtures, then you will have to locate the ceiling studs,, all of them , with a nail or screw, then snap lines to make sure you hit wood with a longer screw. Then you would also have to tape in the ceiling angles and then blend and paint the walls..


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## BOBTHEFIXER (Oct 28, 2013)

Myself i always go with option 3 when i deal with textured ceilings mainly old popcorn ones. 

One good coat of 90 then two coats of machine mud.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Ya might want to let that ceiling set for about a week before you call the painters. Cause that's about how long It's going to take for that hot mud to cure! :thumbsup:


Psssh... we don't do the painting. As long as I can sand the skim coat I'm good to go! Get it done fast and send them a freaking bill!!!


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

What happens if you dont let hot mud cure


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> What happens if you dont let hot mud cure


Nothing.... it doesn't shrink so it is just drying out completely. In my experience once it sets you don't have to worry about it anymore. I have never had any delayed shrinkage from hot mud. I don't recommend painting it immediately because the moisture has to go somewhere but for skimming it you will be fine. The only mud you should be really worried about curing is ready mixed mud as it takes much longer to really completely dry and cure. If you taped a house today and went back tomorrow and pulled the tape off I guarantee that mud that is in the actual joint wont be rock hard and completely dry but the tapes will look and feel dry from the outside. This is one of the reasons I have been having our houses taped with hot mud... well atleast the joints. The angles don't seem to be affected as much.


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

I was thinking about starting to tape with hot mud I just skimmed a bathroom with hot mud yesterday since it was an hour drive so I could just make 2 trips. He said it was still a little wet but he plans on painting tomorrow after he sands. Also I just went back to a job I finished 2 weeks ago I left everything fine checked with a light. I look at the ceilings and it looks like 2 seams werent filled in enough. Idk if it was because the painters sprayed primer let it dry for about an hr then put a coat of white finish but I know when I left it was good and dry


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

thefinisher said:


> Nothing.... it doesn't shrink so it is just drying out completely. In my experience once it sets you don't have to worry about it anymore. I have never had any delayed shrinkage from hot mud. I don't recommend painting it immediately because the moisture has to go somewhere but for skimming it you will be fine. The only mud you should be really worried about curing is ready mixed mud as it takes much longer to really completely dry and cure. If you taped a house today and went back tomorrow and pulled the tape off I guarantee that mud that is in the actual joint wont be rock hard and completely dry but the tapes will look and feel dry from the outside. This is one of the reasons I have been having our houses taped with hot mud... well atleast the joints. The angles don't seem to be affected as much.


I disagree with this. If it is still damp under the tape you will get tram tracks. The moisture makes up a percentage of the volume, as it drys it must shrink. This will happen with paper tape every time. The solution is fiber fuse, you will not get tram tracks. The mud will still shrink, (the science says so) but the tape line will not be visible.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

You can put topping over hot mud soon as it sets with no problems. Might take a little longer for topping ti dry, but won't hurt anything.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> You can put topping over hot mud soon as it sets with no problems. Might take a little longer for topping ti dry, but won't hurt anything.


And there is no way it will bubble up:whistling2:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

gazman said:


> And there is no way it will bubble up:whistling2:


No, it's not a guarantee or cause of bubbles. I've seen bubbles in topping on top of Durabond that was days old. Bubbles bubbles oh the troubles, they do what the f**k they want.


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> No, it's not a guarantee or cause of bubbles. I've seen bubbles in topping on top of Durabond that was days old. Bubbles bubbles oh the troubles, they do what the f**k they want.


Lmao I love that show


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## Nick Harmon (Feb 16, 2013)

This is the same texture I had on my own home. Two coats with the Fresco Harmony and one sealer will cover this. Hanging sheetrock, finishing, texturing, and painting two coats is not as easy as FH. Plaster will not stick to a painted, texture, surface. Mud will. At the very least skim it twice with regular mud and paint it. here is a video where we are covering heavy texture. No prep, no rock, no plaster, no problem. This question sure comes up a lot. Even after one coat it's pretty damn smooth. I had about 4 hours and 6 boxes of mud in these two coats. Sealer took one hour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g5Pabe3JsA&list=UUqqvPqk7StpOBdupe91TImQ&feature=share&index=2


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

For smoothing out a textured wall or ceiling I have a few 5 -1/2" variable speed angle grinders that we use for knocking off the tops of a heavy texture prior to skimming. Use #80 or #60 sanding disk paper and a slow rpm setting. We will then skim out a wall or ceiling pulling the blade in just one direction and leaving linear chatter marks all in a perpendicular direction to the knife blade. When this mud dries we then load the wall or ceiling up and pull the mud off always in a direction perpendicular to the first, but parallel to the chatters. Thus taking care of the linear chatters left from the first pass. A third tight skim helps fill in any irregularities. Then lights come out and a thorough touchup. Sand the surface. Remove all dust. Where I live, lately, all of our textured work from decades ago is being turned into level 5 smooth. Horribly time consuming. In five years we will probably be texturing it again.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> I disagree with this. If it is still damp under the tape you will get tram tracks. The moisture makes up a percentage of the volume, as it drys it must shrink. This will happen with paper tape every time. The solution is fiber fuse, you will not get tram tracks. The mud will still shrink, (the science says so) but the tape line will not be visible.


Yes....That's what kills me about these 3 coats in one trip guys ..
They need to go back after It's painted so they can see that tape line that showed through. 


IT'S FAST SETTING! No where on the bag does It say fast drying !!

I've blocked in corner bead before with 20 min that took 3 days to cure out with the heat on!!!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> This is one of the reasons I have been having our houses taped with hot mud... well atleast the joints. The angles don't seem to be affected as much.


And where did you come up with this method? :whistling2:


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