# Box size comparison 8-10" or 10-12"



## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

Going to be purchasing a set of boxes wondering what 2 sizes to get. I would prefer the lightest possible tools. Whats the difference between using the 8 and 10" combo as opposed to the 10 and 12" combo'. Thanks


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## GreatLakesTools (Feb 27, 2015)

8" is great for flats and No-coat angles, but not that great for boxing butt seams. You could go 8 - 12 also. Are you interested in Northstar boxes? I am an authorized dealer.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Jorg said:


> Going to be purchasing a set of boxes wondering what 2 sizes to get. I would prefer the lightest possible tools. Whats the difference between using the 8 and 10" combo as opposed to the 10 and 12" combo'. Thanks


8/12 for me!!:thumbsup:


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## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

I was looking at the Columbia web site info and they say that if you use the 8-10" combo the finish is " not as pleasing aesthetically" and that the 10-12" combo is the "accepted standard and gives satisfactory width for decorating" I am starting with one big job that has 10' ceilings and it is a warehouse so the joints don't have to be the best possible and I thought maybe the 8-10" box combo might be a little easier to push on the ceiling?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Certainteed boards need a 12'' to 24''


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Jorg said:


> I was looking at the Columbia web site info and they say that if you use the 8-10" combo the finish is " not as pleasing aesthetically" and that the 10-12" combo is the "accepted standard and gives satisfactory width for decorating" I am starting with one big job that has 10' ceilings and it is a warehouse so the joints don't have to be the best possible and I thought maybe the 8-10" box combo might be a little easier to push on the ceiling?


 8 and 10 are fine. Been doing this way for long time.


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## killerjune (Jun 18, 2011)

why sometime 10-12 boxes, my flat or not flat on the ceiling, sometime is appear with the sun light ? i buy last week 12-14 boxes. i wish that my probleme are finish


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

10"-12" all the way. 8" 10" is for hacks.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> 8/12 for me!!:thumbsup:


I don't know if it makes me a hack or not:whistling2: but I got the best results running 8" &12". :yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I don't know if it makes me a hack or not:whistling2: but I got the best results running 8" &12". :yes:


 Same for me. 8" FatBoy followed by a 12" std. size box.

The head taper for the branch of a company I'm doing some contract work for also agrees. He used to specialize in 1,000,000.00+ houses with his own company till moving to commercial, and it's what he found worked best for him.


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## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

What would be the problem with working with just one box size, just wondering about that?


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

endo_alley said:


> 10"-12" all the way. 8" 10" is for hacks.


Here is some work with 2 coats with the 8 and 10. I dont think box size determines whether you are a hack or not.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Jorg said:


> What would be the problem with working with just one box size, just wondering about that?


Typically you want the second coat to be wider than the first coat so you don't end up with heavy edges. That doesn't mean you can't run just one size box, but it will end up being more work.
I started out blocking with a 10" box and skimming by hand with a 12" knife with great results.


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## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks for the input. I might try just a 10" for starters, but maybe an 8" and 12" - sounds like a good combo to me. I like the idea of a smaller box to do all the main filling and the larger 12" to finish.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

In the way things use to be ..a 8'' block and 10'' skim would work. 

But thangs ain't what they use to be! add in some bad frame etc..


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## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

But if you started with an 8" and finish up with a 12" on seams if you just run down the center you would still have 12" to ride over uneven boards.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

chris said:


> Here is some work with 2 coats with the 8 and 10. I dont think box size determines whether you are a hack or not.


Let's see it painted with a halogen light shining down those bands and butt joints. Without putting a strait edge across those joints this photo shows nothing.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Sadly, with the poor quality of board today coating 10' or 12" doesn't make a crap of difference. Like Moore said go 24". 
We ended up busting out a lot of joints 20"+ by hand.


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

Im starting to think everything shoukd just be done by hand. Excluding taping


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## Jorg (Jul 18, 2015)

> Like Moore said go 24".
> We ended up busting out a lot of joints 20"+ by hand.





> Im starting to think everything shoukd just be done by hand. Excluding taping


So your talking about the overall width of the compound needed to blend the joints of the boards , but even if you need to go wider that 12" you could still use boxes to achieve this right? with multiple passes, and the boxes are still just a way to put the compound on , aren't the boxes really just like a type of trowel or knife that dispenses compound that you could use in any situation, it just might not be the ideal two pass simplicity of a perfectly hung seam.?


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

a box can only put the mud on the wall one way. trowels and knives don't have this limitation


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Jorg said:


> What would be the problem with working with just one box size, just wondering about that?





Jorg said:


> So your talking about the overall width of the compound needed to blend the joints of the boards , but even if you need to go wider that 12" you could still use boxes to achieve this right? with multiple passes, and the boxes are still just a way to put the compound on , aren't the boxes really just like a type of trowel or knife that dispenses compound that you could use in any situation, it just might not be the ideal two pass simplicity of a perfectly hung seam.?


If you're wanting/willing to skim on a hand final coat you can try this. You can do it with an 8, 10, or 12" box, but the bigger widths could be your better choice, unless you don't have uneven shoulder problems too much and want to finish coat not overly wide:

After you make a 1st run on some joints with whatever box size you choose, let it dry for 15-20 minutes, or even more, instead of running over the joints again right away with the box or tracing after it with a knife right away to knock out blemishes in the boxed coat.

Don't worry about blemishes in the 1st boxed coat - they'll be taken care of with the 2nd boxed coat. Run over the joints with the box a 2nd time after waiting however many minutes you want to. The waiting will let the mud shrink back some however it wants to and your 2nd box run will finish off more evenly then, because of allowing for the initial shrinking. After drying, light sand out ridges, box lift marks, and you can hand coat on what pretty much should only be a skim coat needed, if you boxed it right enough - unless you have some areas that need to be hand coated out wider because of some board sections that are too uneven for the box width used.

I'll run the 1st coat usually with a 5 setting, then the 2nd with a 5 as well, to keep things tighter and flatter - or sometimes a 4 or even 3 setting with the last boxed coat if I want more fill over the flats because of things like too much uneven board showing up after boxing it with the 1st box run. That setting decision is a matter of reading how the 1st boxed coat is drying before I box over it again. In the places where it's showing that there's a decent high side, you can swing the box over to the lower side while boxing, to start feathering it out. Some box runs I make can look a bit snake-ish because of doing that feathering with a box. But it helps with finishing things out.


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## drywaller finisher (Mar 6, 2015)

Ames box is 7". Who decided to make a 8" box? Olympic Wall Systems uses 7"&10"


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## Sweendog87 (Apr 5, 2015)

JustMe said:


> If you're wanting/willing to skim on a hand final coat you can try this. You can do it with an 8, 10, or 12" box, but the bigger widths could be your better choice, unless you don't have uneven shoulder problems too much and want to finish coat not overly wide:
> 
> After you make a 1st run on some joints with whatever box size you choose, let it dry for 15-20 minutes, or even more, instead of running over the joints again right away with the box or tracing after it with a knife right away to knock out blemishes in the boxed coat.
> 
> ...



So when u box the second time 20 mins later are u using all purpose and I thought it would pull the first coat along with it and cause alot worse imperfections and is this only done with the foll coat or do u Do this on the top coat cause your pretty much running them 3 times in the same time as running them twice I like the thought just don't know how viable it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

drywaller finisher said:


> Ames box is 7". Who decided to make a 8" box? Olympic Wall Systems uses 7"&10"


I may be wrong...but I think they're all 7" boxes....some just call them 8.


EDIT....My bad ! They are 8'' With 3/4 '' of dry ****.


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## loudcry184 (Jan 26, 2014)

I go dm 5.5 and columbia 14 for my flats


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

GreatLakesTools said:


> 8" is great for flats and No-coat angles, but not that great for boxing butt seams. You could go 8 - 12 also. Are you interested in Northstar boxes? I am an authorized dealer.


we all have a technique and dont mean to axe your opinion, I swing 7 dm on butts catch middle later, tight 12 and hand coat final, I like that system, have a different tech for ceiling w/tex but thats a Mr. Joe Trade secret


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> we all have a technique and dont mean to axe your opinion, I swing 7 dm on butts catch middle later, tight 12 and hand coat final, I like that system, have a different tech for ceiling w/tex but thats a Mr. Joe Trade secret


I have seen guys crown the center of a butt with a seven or eight inch box. And also split the sides out by leaving a 4" or 5" gap from the edge of the center mud. (for non shimmed butts) In essence tripling them out with a seven inch. Then they come back after drying and split the butts out with a 12" box. Seems to work O.K. .


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> I have seen guys crown the center of a butt with a seven or eight inch box. And also split the sides out by leaving a 4" or 5" gap from the edge of the center mud. (for non shimmed butts) In essence tripling them out with a seven inch. Then they come back after drying and split the butts out with a 12" box. Seems to work O.K. .



and the moral of the story is run tight and just leave a light skim over for the flat appearance, heard some guy crying just a few weeks ago you can see the tape as in yellow, nawwwww, wanna go skiing go to the hill not of the butt joints


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> and the moral of the story is run tight and just leave a light skim over for the flat appearance, heard some guy crying just a few weeks ago you can see the tape as in yellow, nawwwww, wanna go skiing go to the hill not of the butt joints


I need a translator. What does that mean? Secret code language?


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

endo_alley said:


> I need a translator. What does that mean? Secret code language?


I think what Bazooka-Joe is saying is no need to build up the high spot usually where the tape is with mud. Slight crown ether side is all you need then skim the tape works well. (No ski hills)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> I need a translator. What does that mean? Secret code language?


If you can still see the tape after the second coat ? It ain't busted out! 

Joe has his own way of sayin things . But I've never had a problem understanding what he was throwing down!


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

How about a pic to show what I mean


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Mudstar said:


> I think what Bazooka-Joe is saying is no need to build up the high spot usually where the tape is with mud. Slight crown ether side is all you need then skim the tape works well. (No ski hills)


Thanks for the translation. What I was talking about, again, was once down the center of the butt joint and once down either side of that leaving a gap between these side passes such that when you split the joint out with a twelve inch box the second time through it is 12" from peak to peak. So that in essence you get a joint that is a 31" butt joint. "I I I" for the fill coat and "I I" for the finish coat. If you use a 10" box for the fill coat, then you wind up with a butt joint that is 34" wide. No build up over the tape. The blade runs just enough (but no more) mud to just barely clear the tape.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

More often on fill coat, I will split out the butt joints with a 10" box leaving just enough mud to allow a very slight indentation over the tape. On finish coat, I will cap the butt flat down the middle with a 12" box, and run a 12" down either side. Leaving a dead flat 36" butt. If time allows, and the job is big enough, I finish coat only the butts. When they are sufficiently dry, I finish the bands, pulling through the butts, and leaving no touchup at the band, butt intersection. In real life, if you were to put a straight edge along either outside edge of the butt joint that is pictured in the diagram, there will be an indent. Tripling out the butt is fast, and eliminates much of this indent. And super clean looking finish work to boot.


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

The only people I have heard complain sbout wide butts. .... other finishers. My first boss used to tell me. If I was paying for material, I wouldnt make my butts so wide. I laughed and laughed.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

You guys must get a lot of butt joins, Theres not that many in an average house for me so I just hand do them.

Ive tried boxing them but its not really worth it, I still have to get in there and blend them in to the seam so if I have to do that might as well just hand bomb them, I didn't get any gain with boxing them at all.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

I got a basement comeing up. I can only get eight footers down the stairs. So that's going to be like 35 to 40 but joints.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I got a basement comeing up. I can only get eight footers down the stairs. So that's going to be like 35 to 40 but joints.


 Wow  I see?? My last two jobs, A house and a shop, House had 8, Shop had 10, That's about as far as is gets, Some places have none, And usually its only in the living area and garage.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

cazna said:


> You guys must get a lot of butt joins, Theres not that many in an average house for me so I just hand do them.
> 
> Ive tried boxing them but its not really worth it, I still have to get in there and blend them in to the seam so if I have to do that might as well just hand bomb them, I didn't get any gain with boxing them at all.


Maybe 100 per big house give or take. Less on a smaller house.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

moore said:


> If you can still see the tape after the second coat ? It ain't busted out!
> 
> Joe has his own way of sayin things . But I've never had a problem understanding what he was throwing down!


No offense meant to Joe. I just couldn't understand what he was asking. Can I still see the tape after the second coat ? No, it is coated and buried on the (triple wide) fill coat, using this particular method. And as for contractors complaining that it uses too much mud when you flatten the joints, well that is a first for me. My bids aren't so tight that an extra box of mud is going to bankrupt me. My clients assume metal and joints will be filled flat. That is why they hired me in the first place (at least I tell myself that). Also, when we do smooth wall, we almost always use buttboards to recess the butts. And then the system changes completely.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

endo_alley said:


> . Also, when we do smooth wall, we almost always use buttboards to recess the butts. And then the system changes completely.


That the way to go :yes:


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

May be try boxing them Caz, while your doing the flats, then at the end of the job give them a skim over with your 14 trowel . Works great for me.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

croozer said:


> May be try boxing them Caz, while your doing the flats, then at the end of the job give them a skim over with your 14 trowel . Works great for me.


 
Yeah ive tried that a few times as well croozer, Goes well.

I just tend to trowel em along with the beads and above or below windows and above doors etc etc.

Imagine having 100 to do on one job


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

cazna said:


> Yeah ive tried that a few times as well croozer, Goes well.
> 
> I just tend to trowel em along with the beads and above or below windows and above doors etc etc.
> 
> Imagine having 100 to do on one job


Welcome 2 my world!!:yes:
Now i suppose i will have to get my ass out to my garage as i have had 3 guns break down in 3 days so its try fix or buy a new 1!


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Quit beating them up! You gotta caress them!


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

fr8train said:


> Quit beating them up! You gotta caress them!


Shouldn't have to, though. They're just putting on drywall tapes.

Last job I wrapped up on Monday, I thought the other guy was going to bring his gun, so I left mine at home. He showed up with a tube - said his cutter chain had broken on his last taping job and hadn't fixed it, yet. There wasn't a lot of tapes, so I put them on with a banjo I had with me.

It's why I call bazookas 'polished turds'. They work, after a fashion, and they've been polished over the years with little improvements, but underneath the polish, they're still turds. They need a major design overhaul.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Haven't broken anything other than a cable or two. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Try not caressing it.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Clean em', oil em', and maintain em'!

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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

JustMe said:


> Shouldn't have to, though. They're just putting on drywall tapes.
> 
> Last job I wrapped up on Monday, I thought the other guy was going to bring his gun, so I left mine at home. He showed up with a tube - said his cutter chain had broken on his last taping job and hadn't fixed it, yet. There wasn't a lot of tapes, so I put them on with a banjo I had with me.
> 
> It's why I call bazookas 'polished turds'. They work, after a fashion, and they've been polished over the years with little improvements, but underneath the polish, they're still turds. They need a major design overhaul.


Don't know about that. Some blokes just seem to be too rough with their gear and expect it to keep performing flawlessly no matter what abuse is dished out to it. Don't work that way. Most of my gear , including mixing drills etc is well over 10 years old and still running like the day I first used it. And yes, I do actually use it, a lot. As others have said, trick to having a good working relationship with your zook is clean thoroughly after each use, oil thoroughly and treat it with a little respect. I work very fast with my Columbia taper, but still manage to work softly with it, as in not slam down on the cutter, just a gentle yank to cut, not smash the head into the top angle, roll the thing into the corner, etc, etc. That taper is 6 years old now and is still as good as the day I first used it, with just replacing the usual wear parts, eg,wore the drive wheels smooth, couple of cables, 2 in 6 yrs and some bushings in the head. Not too bad really. A highly polished turd!!!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

fr8train said:


> Quit beating them up! You gotta caress them!


Na, cutter chain broke on my columbia gun then the brake on my blueline fell to bits then i went back to my 23 yearold bluline gun that just sits in water and it got jammed with something so tape woulnt go through!!
Power hose and its going again:thumbsup:
Its built like a tank that thing:thumbup:
P.S i have never replaced a cutter chain on the 2 blueline guns yet but thats twice on the columbia!! They r SS.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Soak them in alcohol Van :whistling2:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> Soak them in alcohol Van :whistling2:


F*ck that that's for me:thumbup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

croozer said:


> Don't know about that. Some blokes just seem to be too rough with their gear and expect it to keep performing flawlessly no matter what abuse is dished out to it. Don't work that way. Most of my gear , including mixing drills etc is well over 10 years old and still running like the day I first used it. And yes, I do actually use it, a lot. As others have said, trick to having a good working relationship with your zook is clean thoroughly after each use, oil thoroughly and treat it with a little respect. I work very fast with my Columbia taper, but still manage to work softly with it, as in not slam down on the cutter, just a gentle yank to cut, not smash the head into the top angle, roll the thing into the corner, etc, etc. That taper is 6 years old now and is still as good as the day I first used it, with just replacing the usual wear parts, eg,wore the drive wheels smooth, couple of cables, 2 in 6 yrs and some bushings in the head. Not too bad really. A highly polished turd!!!


That's nice.  

I'm not interested in having "a good relationship" with my taper, so it'll treat me good. It works for me, and it's coming up short for me, as well as coming up short for others I've worked with. As I said, time for a major redesign.

And the guy whose cutter chain had broken isn't hard on his taper, including cutting. He's about the smoothest I've seen when running the thing, or any other auto taping tool. A real pro, one who doesn't abuse his tools. As I said to his company field supervisor the other day, probably still the best taper I've ever worked with - I haven't taped with him in awhile. His chain just up and broke and he didn't get a chance to fix it, yet. Lucky he wasn't taping some big job out of town. More pain in the butt, then.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

JustMe said:


> That's nice.
> 
> I'm not interested in having "a good relationship" with my taper, so it'll treat me good. It works for me, and it's coming up short for me, as well as coming up short for others I've worked with. As I said, time for a major redesign.
> 
> And the guy whose cutter chain had broken isn't hard on his taper, including cutting. He's about the smoothest I've seen when running the thing, or any other auto taping tool. A real pro, one who doesn't abuse his tools. As I said to his company field supervisor the other day, probably still the best taper I've ever worked with - I haven't taped with him in awhile. His chain just up and broke and he didn't get a chance to fix it, yet. Lucky he wasn't taping some big job out of town. More pain in the butt, then.


I've ordered a new cutter chain(The whole thing) And its got 2 come from Arron at Columbia tools!!:blink:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

VANMAN said:


> I've ordered a new cutter chain(The whole thing) And its got 2 come from Arron at Columbia tools!!:blink:


You requested the stainless, right? They have been known to have a cheaper version they have put out. There very pricey JS


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