# Would you pay more for great hangers?



## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

If a hanger did every thing you requested, would you pay him more and how much? If he set all his fasteners properly,never missed a receptacle,switch,air return,pipes,etc.,routed doors and windows within 5/32",only butt joints when absolutely necessary,glued and screwed with minimal screws,respected all tradesman, didn't crap in the bathtub or piss in the drain, is this expected or pure folly? I'm sure I missed a few things on your checklist, but you know what I mean. Please tell me the other things that are important to you, and if you would pay more. Please give me a percentage if you would pay more, because we know everyone pays different prices for labor. Thank you.:thumbup:


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

i already pay more than i could, but i have found good hangers are more efficiant and therfore earn more $.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I guess you can pay some extra $$ for the hangers if it is an exceptional job or you can just pay yourself for the extra time to fix careless hanging by guys that don't really care . Last 300 plus sheets that my crew did they missed a total of 2 outlet boxes that they just inched themselves and there were maybe 5 screws in the total job that were not quite in .. Everything was hand cut no routering and yes it was done in a reasonably fast time 2 1/2 days three man crew .... the total cost was .185 per ft. well worth the money I would have even gone higher but that's what there invoice was for and that's what they got. I know there are many out there that this price per ft is high but I feel it is and should ( on the average perhaps even low )be a current price for today. This was residential .


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

my hangers always get more than the tapers do. Best 50cent a sheet i spend every week.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't pay more for near perfect work. I just just pay much, much less for a crappy job and fire any crew that craps in tubs, wastes board, etc. My hangers are awesome and I pay them a little more than most. I just won't use guys who don't do great work. There is no excuse for them doing poor work.

Rockdaddy, what does your .05 cent board look like?


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I thought a good job was expected!

Does a carpenter get paid more if the walls are out of square? or a sparky if the power doesn't work? How about an HVAC guy not having that work? no... It's your job. Take some pride in it, or get out.


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## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I don't pay more for near perfect work. I just just pay much, much less for a crappy job and fire any crew that craps in tubs, wastes board, etc. My hangers are awesome and I pay them a little more than most. I just won't use guys who don't do great work. There is no excuse for them doing poor work.
> 
> Rockdaddy, what does your .05 cent board look like?


 
Darren last I knew 50 cents a sheet is .50 and not .05 still the question was ok because thats $50 for 100 sheets not to mention is that for 8's, 10's or 12's In my opinion thats quite low. If 2 hangers hang that much in a day thats $25 each and I don't know many hangers that would hang for $25 a day. Except maybe south of the boarder. 
rebel


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Gee whiz, just looked at that again. .50 works out to .01 per foot for 12's. That is shameful. Even if it was 8's, it'd still by under .015. That's less than what we pay the scrappers.......I think I'm gonna puke. :furious:


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Gee whiz, just looked at that again. .50 works out to .01 per foot for 12's. That is shameful. Even if it was 8's, it'd still by under .015. That's less than what we pay the scrappers.......I think I'm gonna puke. :furious:


 I am thinking he pays an additional 50 cents per board or .01 per ft , at least that is the way i take it ... if he is only paying 50 cents per board , well lets just say I hope he isn't ..... And I agree that why should you pay more for a good job ? It should be expected anything less than a quality job should be deducted .... around here .18 is the average for residential . If you find a good crew stick with them and show some loyalty , that is why things things are in turmoil , cheap GC causing drywall contractors to nickel and dime their guys .... Stand firm with both feet planted and don't give in to the the cheap , greedy G.C. or perhaps one that is just buying their work with low pricing.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Totally Confused*

I am guilty of ignorance again because I mistook the complaining in this forum about most hangers being amateurs to mean tapers were not happy. Obviously the hangers you refer to are always the other guys. I understand your defense of your guys for business reasons, but if your best hangers asked for more money because they deserved it, I guess they would be history. Because you expect a good job does not mean you will get one. I know quality hanging is not as important as you guys infer,or possibly you have never seen a great hanging job. I can tell you that 99.9% of hanging jobs I've seen are mediocre at best. And please,please,please don't tell me about hangers not using a router. Living in the Dark Ages of construction is proof it is not about quality. Your credibility is destroyed when you defend amateurism. If you hired these clowns knowing they hand cut every thing , apparently no one in your area is better? Wow, maybe the carpenters framed the house using only hand saws and hammers. Comments about their speed or lack of also indicates minimal concerns about quality. I never thought the response to this would so disappointing, but apparently my perception of quality and every one else's is opposite.:tongue:


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

Yeah I just love having to tape every box and light opening because of routing. 

Super Rocker .... I think you may be a 1/4 click off .......


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Delusional Stormy*

:yes:If you are taping all these screwups, then you obviously have the poorest hangers on earth. Even allowing for exaggeration, an average hanger can't miss 10 in a house. If you believe cutting by hand is more accurate,then you are a full click off. Hopefully, there must be someone near you who knows something about hanging drywall, because no one is that naive to think like that. If you are a gambling man, I will buy your plane ticket,lodging and meals and bet you any thing you can afford,that on my next duplex I don't miss one outlet or light. Please post your phone number or e mail to make the arrangements. You certainly make my point that most of you tapers have never seen a great hanging job. Minimum wager of $5000.:yes:


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

super rocker said:


> I am guilty of ignorance again because I mistook the complaining in this forum about most hangers being amateurs to mean tapers were not happy. Obviously the hangers you refer to are always the other guys. I understand your defense of your guys for business reasons, but if your best hangers asked for more money because they deserved it, I guess they would be history. Because you expect a good job does not mean you will get one. I know quality hanging is not as important as you guys infer,or possibly you have never seen a great hanging job. I can tell you that 99.9% of hanging jobs I've seen are mediocre at best. And please,please,please don't tell me about hangers not using a router. Living in the Dark Ages of construction is proof it is not about quality. Your credibility is destroyed when you defend amateurism. If you hired these clowns knowing they hand cut every thing , apparently no one in your area is better? Wow, maybe the carpenters framed the house using only hand saws and hammers. Comments about their speed or lack of also indicates minimal concerns about quality. I never thought the response to this would so disappointing, but apparently my perception of quality and every one else's is opposite.:tongue:


 I agree that it may seem that they may seem to be in the dark ages , but let me tell you something and you will never agree , my crew is not only fast but on the money. You can never say that they aren't unless you are on a job watching...I in turn can never say how good you are unless I was watching your work. My lead man ran a crew for years for a large drywall company , he is old fashioned yes but fast .... It takes a good crew that works together in perfect harmony to get done what they do.... no need to second guess what the other is up to because it all is natural to them.... again say what you want .... I have seen some of the best with routers still make a lot of repairs ... guaranteed my guys can hand cut out a box faster than you can router and it will not leave as big a cut around the box as the bit in your router. And I am not a gambling man ... I work hard for my money , nuff said.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Confirmation*



silverstilts said:


> I agree that it may seem that they may seem to be in the dark ages , but let me tell you something and you will never agree , my crew is not only fast but on the money. You can never say that they aren't unless you are on a job watching...I in turn can never say how good you are unless I was watching your work. My lead man ran a crew for years for a large drywall company , he is old fashioned yes but fast .... It takes a good crew that works together in perfect harmony to get done what they do.... no need to second guess what the other is up to because it all is natural trouters still make a lot of repairs o them.... again say what you want .... I have seen some of the best with ... guaranteed my guys can hand cut out a box faster than you can router and it will not leave as big a cut around the box as the bit in your router. And I am not a gambling man ... I work hard for my money , nuff said.


 I respect your loyalty to your men and if you are happy with their methods,that's terrific. My point is still the same. You say you have seen some of the "best" and you still make repairs. If hangers are proficient routing,you will not be doing repairs. I reiterate that most of you have never seen a great rock job and apparently never will. If you haven't, you have nothing to compare it to. Concerning the speed, you can believe cutting by hand is faster, but trust me on this,if that was true the sombrero boys would be doing it. I hung drywall for 3 years before I used a router and it is almost impossible to allow for poor framing and not miss boxes. If you miss a box with a router it is because of carelessness or boredom. I'm not disparaging your men, I'm just saying there is a better way.:thumbup:


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

super rocker said:


> I respect your loyalty to your men and if you are happy with their methods,that's terrific. My point is still the same. You say you have seen some of the "best" and you still make repairs. If hangers are proficient routing,you will not be doing repairs. I reiterate that most of you have never seen a great rock job and apparently never will. If you haven't, you have nothing to compare it to. Concerning the speed, you can believe cutting by hand is faster, but trust me on this,if that was true the sombrero boys would be doing it. I hung drywall for 3 years before I used a router and it is almost impossible to allow for poor framing and not miss boxes. If you miss a box with a router it is because of carelessness or boredom. I'm not disparaging your men, I'm just saying there is a better way.:thumbup:


 you are right there are always better and faster methods to anything that one does , I guess I don't really care how my rockers do there cutting as long as I don't have to do repairs behind them . Like I said they are well seasoned hangers that have been around for years , they are not some like some others that profane be able to do anything and everything ... I don't pay them by the hour so it again don't make a whole lot of difference how they cut the board ,they could use a butter knife for all I care as long as it is done right that is..


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I don't pay more for near perfect work. I just just pay much, much less for a crappy job and fire any crew that craps in tubs, wastes board, etc. My hangers are awesome and I pay them a little more than most. I just won't use guys who don't do great work. There is no excuse for them doing poor work.
> 
> Rockdaddy, what does your .05 cent board look like?



there ya go...

and ****** is right too, a good job is expected. I don't play that 'pay me more for a perfect hang job' bullsh-t. A real manager running things right shouldnt have to put up with that. It's unacceptable.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> guaranteed my guys can hand cut out a box faster than you can router and it will not leave as big a cut around the box as the bit in your router.


I don't think anybody can cut boxes out faster by hand than with a router, let alone more percise, the router leaves an 1/8 gab on all four sides between the rock and the box. If a hanger isn't routing them tight its cause they just don't care or have only used the router a few times.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*More Proof*



Custom Drywall Svc. said:


> there ya go...
> 
> and ****** is right too, a good job is expected. I don't play that 'pay me more for a perfect hang job' bullsh-t. A real manager running things right shouldnt have to put up with that. It's unacceptable.


 Again you have proven that your concept of quality is making more money. I have no problem with that , but you are confusing quality with greed, as usual. What you are saying is you value mediocrity if it helps the bottom line. I don't have any issues with your greed, but quit masquerading as a contractor who cares about doing the best job possible.By saying perfect hanging b.s., it again proves you are accepting less than an average hanging job. I am assuming by your idiotic generalizations that all your hangers are equally pathetic. What is unacceptable? Your logic or your feeble attempts to sound knowledgable? Counting money and quality are not quite the same thing. If you had the choice of paying one average hanger $25 per hour or paying a great hanger $30 per hour I know your answer. It proves what I've said, that quality is not that important and you wouldn't know a great hanging job if you saw one.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

drywallnflorida said:


> I don't think anybody can cut boxes out faster by hand than with a router, let alone more percise, the router leaves an 1/8 gab on all four sides between the rock and the box. If a hanger isn't routing them tight its cause they just don't care or have only used the router a few times.


 I guess you may think wrong , kinda like a doctor with a scalpel the word is Precision , and yes a utility blade does cut a whole lot less than 1/8 " but than again who cares to each his own whatever works use it to your advantage there is no wrong or right way if it works right ? I think most hangers don't know how to measure out a box that's why they use a router and even then they still end up over cutting , cutting off insulation on wires and what ever else gets tangled up in the bit. Whats the advantage of a router if the box is so full of wires sticking out you cant even use them without doing damage ? We can argue back and forth till the end of time but it's just one of those posts that everyone is right in our own minds ,there is no one correct way , as long as the job gets done and everyone goes home with a paycheck :thumbup: .


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Depth adjustment*

Florida dude is correct. If used properly a router is 100% foolproof. Concerning the electrical wires, any hanger worth a crap uses a router with a depth adjustment so it is almost impossible to get tangled in wires.I still wish you could see what a hanging job looks like if all electric,doors,windows,air returns etc. are routed by a PROFFESIONAL hanger and you would abandon your guys today. I guess some things are not meant to be. But like you say, if you are happy,life is good. Too bad work isn't.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

we use our hammer handle before we put the board up to push all the wires in to the back of the box and never have a problem with cuttin the insulation on the wires, the problem with measuring everybox is it takes wayyyyyyy longer, the 1/8 gap is no problem for us cause the elec. cover covers way more than that, the other problem with measuring is if the framing is never perfectly square.

Like you said to each is own, but like i said there is nooooo way anybody can measure, transfer there #'s onto the board and cut it out faster than I can mark the center and router it


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

super rocker said:


> Again you have proven that your concept of quality is making more money. I have no problem with that , but you are confusing quality with greed, as usual. What you are saying is you value mediocrity if it helps the bottom line. I don't have any issues with your greed, but quit masquerading as a contractor who cares about doing the best job possible.By saying perfect hanging b.s., it again proves you are accepting less than an average hanging job. I am assuming by your idiotic generalizations that all your hangers are equally pathetic. What is unacceptable? Your logic or your feeble attempts to sound knowledgable? Counting money and quality are not quite the same thing. If you had the choice of paying one average hanger $25 per hour or paying a great hanger $30 per hour I know your answer. It proves what I've said, that quality is not that important and you wouldn't know a great hanging job if you saw one.


you kidding me? I believe that a hang job should be as perfect as reasonably possible, i never said anything about mediocrity or settling for less as youre implying...or even greed...??

the point to me is the concept of the question being asked, not about the money....

Do i pay my guys more to hang it how theyre supposed to?

NO, i pay them what i want, and what i think is fair. I also do not think its some sort of 'stretch' for me to expect them to hang the house as 'near perfect' as i want. I don't think it's wrong for me to say that I expect a quality job on every house we hang. We train and manage our hangers on HOW to hang a house right. I ensure this by having my foreman supervise all our hanging by cutting / measuring every piece of rock the first hang day. In the same process, he is training them to be a better crew.

That's, to me what it's about....i pay them what i want, and expect the house to be hung HOW i want, period. This is what i am trying to say....

Super rocker, im not trying to offend you or argue, but i think you may have originally misunderstood me, and i hope i clarified above.


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

And remember its just drywall,and however you do it,remember a very wise rocker says . YOU CAN,T SEE IT FROM MY HOUSE


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

First thing I do when I buy a router is take the homeowner kit<ie depth guide,side strap,etc> off and toss it in the dumpster. I make my guys,even myself, go around and push,NOT SHOVE,the wires into the box away from the edges. I also mark the edge of the box on the other sheet,top plate,whatever...I started this when doing reno's with half the boxes still live and just carried it over to new construction too.
A quality hanging job is as important as quality finishing....just because a finisher CAN hide sloppy joints,gapped corners,funky T butts etc doesn't mean they should HAVE TO. Would you buy a car that was barely tack welded together and was mostly Bondo? No. So why should you accept stucco/plaster style finishing over a botched up hanging job? But I think this subject is moot now because everyone wants to pay dirt cheap prices and WILL accept butchered rock. They don't realize the problems they're buying but when they have finishers back to retape corners,recoat bead,skimcoat entire walls not to mention buying oversized outlet plates THEN they'll want to blame ALL hangers as though they ever met a GOOD one.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

My " A " Team hanger and taper will do a 300 sheet house, 9'up 9' down, 2 car garage, no high work, floors marked, all cuts made, very few overcuts and nothing buried Hung and scrapped in 8 hours, tapers sand, mop walls and ceilings and scrap buckets to dumpster for .208 a foot based on 12 footers.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

And quality is always job one. Never compromised.
EVERything glued. PERIMeters nailed, THree screws in the field for walls and ceilings. Bead nailed every 7 inches. 
BUtts finshed to 3'. FLAts to 12. Corners to 12.
I"ll put my guys up angainst anyone for speed and accurancy. We spend a lot of time making sure everyone is on the same page.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

There is no reason in the world why a builder wouldn't want to purchase a product for their home that is high quality and reasonably priced. He is looking for value at a price. That is his job.
ON The flip side, It is our job to provide that good/service to him at the highest rate we can get. THat is our job that puts bread on our tables.
Somewhere in between we all make our compromises. NOt for greed but for necessity.
CUrrently the market is down and installs are going for $30.00 a board and less. 5 years ago we were getting $55 - $60 per board all because it is what the market can bear at the time. Rates do not just climb up continually forever. JUst like the market that feeds all of us, rates go up and down and it always goes in cycles. You have to constantly be aware of whats going on in the market and adjust your rates accordingly.
Crying about hacks and illegals and low wages is fruitless. There will always be those who are less skilled, less deserving etc.
You have to think about everything as a business and tend to it. I spend very little time worrying about what anyone else is doing unless they are doing it better than me.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

rockdaddy said:


> My " A " Team hanger and taper will do a 300 sheet house, 9'up 9' down, 2 car garage, no high work, floors marked, all cuts made, very few overcuts and nothing buried Hung and scrapped in 8 hours, tapers sand, mop walls and ceilings and scrap buckets to dumpster for .208 a foot based on 12 footers.


Daddy,slow down. Your confusing post is hard to decipher. My read is you are getting 300 12 footers hung and taped for $3000. Is that correct? And how many men to hang 300 sheets in 8 hours? I think you left out a few details. And what does mopping walls and ceilings mean? Please explain a little more thoroughly. Thanks.


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

LOL 300 sheets hung and taped in 8 hours? I hope its a 10 man crew or 'quality' has a different meaning in your area. My 'crew' which is myself,my brother and a helper (sometimes) hung 70-80 tight,clean,completed sheets in ultra-custom homes(barrels,round stairwells,sectioned domes,etc) while the 6 to 7 man crew who also subbed from the same DC hung 100 or so hacked up,covered boxes,gapped butts,etc type of hanging. Of course none of that matters now since that crew AND mine sit home or find other jobs while illegals use drywall as lathe and thier finishers plaster and stucco over it all.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Good stuff*



evolve991 said:


> LOL 300 sheets hung and taped in 8 hours? I hope its a 10 man crew or 'quality' has a different meaning in your area. My 'crew' which is myself,my brother and a helper (sometimes) hung 70-80 tight,clean,completed sheets in ultra-custom homes(barrels,round stairwells,sectioned domes,etc) while the 6 to 7 man crew who also subbed from the same DC hung 100 or so hacked up,covered boxes,gapped butts,etc type of hanging. Of course none of that matters now since that crew AND mine sit home or find other jobs while illegals use drywall as lathe and thier finishers plaster and stucco over it all.


 Great post,Evo. I have been saying for years that these claims of super h uman hangers are as believable as UFO sightings. I will give Rockdaddy a pass on his claim, because I don't think his meds had kicked in yet. Just kidding. When I started hanging many, many ,many years ago, all houses were 8' high and if a two man crew hung 75 sheets per day he made union scale in wages. To believe a two or three man crew can do this day in and day out with all the goofy crap in houses today is ludicrous. I never thought of your description of lath and plaster, but you are right on. Again, you are correct about quality, because to many contractors, speed and greed equals quality. You are also correct that 96% of tapers will NEVER see a great hanging job. The problem with this job is most hangers start being paid by the s.f. This is not and never will be conducive to quality. The men who broke me in said to learn how to do it right and the speed will come. I am grateful forever to these guys for teaching me the right way, not the fastest.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

evolve991 said:


> LOL 300 sheets hung and taped in 8 hours? I hope its a 10 man crew or 'quality' has a different meaning in your area. My 'crew' which is myself,my brother and a helper (sometimes) hung 70-80 tight,clean,completed sheets in ultra-custom homes(barrels,round stairwells,sectioned domes,etc) while the 6 to 7 man crew who also subbed from the same DC hung 100 or so hacked up,covered boxes,gapped butts,etc type of hanging. Of course none of that matters now since that crew AND mine sit home or find other jobs while illegals use drywall as lathe and thier finishers plaster and stucco over it all.


 I would like to see that myself . and only $3000 to hang and tape if I understand correctly ....even with ten guys that is 30 sheets each to hang and finish , can't see it being quality . but who knows maybe there is 20 guys still 15 sheets each to hang and finish. can be done but you would really have to have some bounce in your a$$..


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## alltex (Jan 31, 2009)

Let the taper fix it,You can,t see it from my house ,Rape and run, who gives a####, spray it heavy.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

MY hanhers have it hung and scrapped in 8 hours. TAPErs have it done within the week.Mopping the walls is wet mopping all the dust off the walls and ceilings. AND no we don't use mops to do it. CARpet on the head of the sanding pole works just fine. $10 bucks a sheet for everything.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I think this guy is on meth.....


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

10 bucks a sheet for ALL of it? I was right you don't have a CLUE what quality is. No one worth a frak would hang and finish for that AND you also probably don't get it that Hanger and Finishers are 2 different trades....a hanger may finish acceptably but a full time finisher will coat circles around him...a finisher may sling sheets but it will be to a degree he is confident he can hide before anyone sees it...I won't say there is NO one who can do it but not at 10 a sheet for damm sure. Its GCs like you I hope to see living in a tent before the market bounces back. We don't need rapists. I'd like to yell IMMIGRE outside your job and watch you get NOTHING hung and finished in a day.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

no matter what, i cannot walk away from a butchered job and feel like i earned my money. It's embarrassing to have gaps and over-cuts and screw heads sticking out. Any jerk can hang boards like that. when a pro does it, it should look like magic, otherwise people would have no need for us.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

Whitey97 said:


> I think this guy is on meth.....


I called it from the start.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

thats right lackey $10. Now just because thats what I pay doesnt mean thats what I charge.
O and another thing EVOLVE; I dont move the board that I do because I put out bad work. I put out high quality reasonably priced work in an atmosphere that I think some of the prima donnas in here would faint in.
WHEn you guys in here can run board like a big boy instead of run your mouth like a taper then you can critisize. UNTil then your just someone else sitting home in a chat room.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Pennsylvania Quality?*



rockdaddy said:


> thats right lackey $10. Now just because thats what I pay doesnt mean thats what I charge.
> O and another thing EVOLVE; I dont move the board that I do because I put out bad work. I put out high quality reasonably priced work in an atmosphere that I think some of the prima donnas in here would faint in.
> WHEn you guys in here can run board like a big boy instead of run your mouth like a taper then you can critisize. UNTil then your just someone else sitting home in a chat room.


 Daddy, I think you are spinning a few too many tales to have any credibility. I am sure you are paying these paltry wages because we know what the downfall of the drywall industry is. You obviously are using Latinos you encountered at Home Depot's parking lot. More power to you, but YOU are the reason our jobs are disappearing because instead of hiring some one accomplished, you hire 30 friggin day laborers. I totally understand trying to stay afloat,but to whore yourself is despicable. You also previously described your quality and you really lost me when you said you glued and put 3 screws in all framing. Why the hell glue? How many screws would you use if you didn't screw,10? Nails every 7" in corner bead? No self described "quality" contractor even uses nail on bead, let alone puts it on machine gun style. You are right about speed, but I have NEVER seen anyone hang that fast who wasn't an amateur. If these boys are your "A" team, I really pity the GC who gets your "C" or "D" team. Evolve is again 100% correct when he said no self respect man will hang or tape for $12 an hour. He was also right that Pennsylvania quality is different than all the rest of the world quality. Eagerly waiting for more tall tales from crockdaddy.:surrender:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

super rocker;7252 You also previously described your quality and you really lost me when you said you glued and put 3 screws in all framing. Why the hell glue? How many screws would you use if you didn't screw said:


> Why wouldn't he glue and put 3 screws per stud in the field? Isn't code 3 screws in the field? As for the glue, the inspector can't see the glue behind the sheets.
> 
> As for the bead, why wouldn't a 'self described "quality" contractor' use nails on a bead? What is wrong with nails on a bead? Furthermore, if nails are used, what spacing should be used?
> 
> Sounds like someone is just trying to pick a fight to me. IMHO


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*Comprehension Test*



fr8train said:


> Why wouldn't he glue and put 3 screws per stud in the field? Isn't code 3 screws in the field? As for the glue, the inspector can't see the glue behind the sheets.
> 
> As for the bead, why wouldn't a 'self described "quality" contractor' use nails on a bead? What is wrong with nails on a bead? Furthermore, if nails are used, what spacing should be used?
> 
> Sounds like someone is just trying to pick a fight to me. IMHO


 If your code is 3 per framing member, obviously that's what you do. If that is the case, then gluing is overkill. There is no such thing as a drywall inspection around here. I've been hanging for 38 years and never encountered a "drywall inspector". You need to read my post again, because I said no one uses nail on bead any more. If you think putting approximately 30 nails in an 8' stick of nail on bead is appropriate, then apparently you are related to Crock Daddy. So sad to think there are people who claim to be professionals would spew such drivel and try to defend it. If you need to ask what is wrong with nail on bead, you should consider finding a new vocation. But maybe it's true that ignorance is bliss.:yes:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

IRC or IBC (including Illinois). Per Table R702.3.5, GWB with adhesive still requires screws at maximum 16" o/c for ceilings and 24" o/c for walls so it's basically every truss and every stud. Cali and Florida have screw inspections, and for rated assemblies every 12" O.C.

As for nailing on bead, I nail on my bead, not every 7" but I do nail, and I have yet to have a problem caused by it. I've seen guys staple it on as well as use nails, seems to vary on the amount of work, if it's just a few sticks, they nail, if there is alot then they break out the staple gun.

And what, in your opinion is wrong with nailing on bead?

As to answer your original question, No, I wouldn't pay more just because the hanging job was spectacular, you would get paid your agreed upon rate.

However if my options were to:
a: Hire jimbob for $25 and his previous work looked a little rough
or, 
b:Hire billybob for $30 and his previous work looked awesome

I would shell out the extra coin and hire billybob.
Why, because it should make my job easier and better. So in the long run I should make more money.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I still use metal corner bead here and there. It has it's place as does mesh tape. Keep this in mind, I would never use tape on bead in my own house, unless I had an insane amount of angles. I like the overall look of metal bead. I think your statement there was a little harsh.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I personally prefer to use a product like Ultra-flex 450 or 350 as my bead, but there are occasions were the H.O. wants a metal bead. And then I nail it.:tongue_smilie:


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

LACKEY? Sorry Bub I'm not your lackey nor anyone else's. The fact that you get away with raterape says NIL about your actual knowledge of quality. Quite the contrary. Its tells drywallers youre what is known in our circle as a Truckass. You know all about cutting a sorry excuse for a check. Period. And furthermore what the **** are you doing on a drywallers forum? Go back to Contractor Talk and stick to the **** threads. Us rockers know your kind and the nicest thing we of the 'nasty attitudes' would do for you is grin in your face and let you leave the job on 2 good legs. Thats the NICEST thing. I would,and have, switched off to other trades or labored on concrete and paving crews rather than give my skills,and my mens skills, to a chump like you for the peanuts offered. Low pay is low pay....you can lean on a shovel and get that. The calls always started coming back in and I ignored them until the right number was offered for our services. I don't haggle,I don't demand,I don't scream and argue I simply let it be known in the trade circles that a GC,builder or developer is less than desirable to do business with and watch the subs wrap up the last job for the shiester. Soon the self adoring know it all is left with no one to do his work. THATS how we real workers roll beyotch. Go ahead and insult me 'daddy' I start my day with a hot cup of coffee and a smile for those who call me Dikkhead. Hangers see it all...the shoddy plumbing,spaghetti bomb wiring,sub-standard framing,the short cuts and spite shots ALL the workers give you because you pay like an alleywalking pimp...we see it and decide whether to make it public or not depending on how you treat workers. Don't look too close at your empire because the devil is in the details.


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## super rocker (Jul 8, 2009)

*He's an installer. WTF!!!!!!!*

I looked at Crockdaddy's bio, and he says he is an installer. I have heard us called many things, but an installer? I am assuming he is a hanger/rocker/boarder and if he is I am richer than Bill Gates. Since we haven't heard from The Great Installer recently, maybe he sought psychological help and was admitted. I guess it's also possible if he is working that cheap, he's working 16 hour days and doesn't have time for our daily conference. I look at his situation and compare it to a call girl who says they make $1000 per hour, but see her standing on the street corner offering her services for $20. If he truly is paying his "help" these 1970's wages, he should never tell a soul. The only reason to tell the world about this is he is bragging about what a prick he is. In my opinion,he is King Of The Installer Whores. Crockdaddy, please return our forum to professionals.:boxing:


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