# teaching new guys



## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i've got a young guy working for me now and he's been with me since september. every now and then i give him some joints or some patches to coat and it always seems to be quite a struggle. its been about five years since i started learning and i don't really remember it being very hard. i'm sure i was slow and i know my work did not look like it does now but i've never trained anyone before and i don't really know how long it should take to be able to put out an acceptable product.
in fairness to him most of my work is really tricky tie-ins and big nasty floats, the kind of stuff you just can't let a new guy do. i finally have a couple of longer walls (8' sheets lots of butts) that i have decided are perfect for him to learn on. its not like i expect him to master it after coating four 20' walls but i'm just trying to give him some of the simpler work we have gotten.
my questions are is it possible to teach someone to coat who is not taking to it quickly? or do i just have no idea how long it should take for someone come around the learning curve? i was not trained by anyone in the beginning. i've worked for guys for a few days here and there but that was quite a while after i had become profficient.
i think i am pretty good at explaining things and demonstrating but its impossible to transmit a skill acquired by feel and practice.also any tips on training newbs and things they should be started on would be great.
he is past the nailspotting/wiping tapes stage.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Bets thing is to start them in closets doing seams then angles. i recommend lightweight for training purposes. Coat it sand the **** out of it then skim. the one thing I try and preach is to only do 3 or 4 feet at a time for seams and angles and never going to high so that its hard to reach. Avoiding stop and gos comes with time. making good stop and gos takes practice. I try and get them doing as much as possible as fast as possible but always watching them like a hawk. My new guy has been working with me since November. So far his screws are perfect except the few assholes here and there he leaves. He can apply mesh like a pro. Strings all closet angles and seams with paper. Installs all bead and no coat. Mixes a good batch of durabond. Sanding still needs some work. I also have trained him to spray, backroll ,caulk and putty. Its definately a slow process to train newbs. This one just got a state job so he is my TIT (taper in training) for only a few more months. Not really too happy about it cause he actually has some potential.


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## gordie (Nov 6, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> i've got a young guy working for me now and he's been with me since september. every now and then i give him some joints or some patches to coat and it always seems to be quite a struggle. its been about five years since i started learning and i don't really remember it being very hard. i'm sure i was slow and i know my work did not look like it does now but i've never trained anyone before and i don't really know how long it should take to be able to put out an acceptable product.
> in fairness to him most of my work is really tricky tie-ins and big nasty floats, the kind of stuff you just can't let a new guy do. i finally have a couple of longer walls (8' sheets lots of butts) that i have decided are perfect for him to learn on. its not like i expect him to master it after coating four 20' walls but i'm just trying to give him some of the simpler work we have gotten.
> my questions are is it possible to teach someone to coat who is not taking to it quickly? or do i just have no idea how long it should take for someone come around the learning curve? i was not trained by anyone in the beginning. i've worked for guys for a few days here and there but that was quite a while after i had become profficient.
> i think i am pretty good at explaining things and demonstrating but its impossible to transmit a skill acquired by feel and practice.also any tips on training newbs and things they should be started on would be great.
> he is past the nailspotting/wiping tapes stage.




Man i here ya trying to train my boy to board just didn't work.

He's not lazy just doesn't have that need to learn additude i had learning. so he has no problem installing with me,, strong enough I'm not carrying him or anything wile putting up the board but his high screws are crap and he can't use a tape worth crap.

And my good friend trained his brother in law,, young kid in less time his screws are perfect he can use his tape i got to borrow him he was able to antisipate a'lot of my next moves and take measurements for me the kid is gold.:blink:

my boy is stronger and has experience insulating i thought he would be perfect to train but it just didn't work out you got to want it and i just might not have enough experience training..

It just gets to expensive redoing work for someone who doesn't try hard to improve i ended up giving him my new dura stilts and hooking him up with my insulating friend he's happier doing that he needed much less training and makes better money and I'm back to just me and my bro much less stress but i do feel like i failed on that one


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Teaching this trade to a newb has got to be one of the hardest things. I can usually tell right off the bat if a guy is even worth the effort of training. If you are questioning how or why or wtf then chances are the guy is not worth the time. I want a guy to ask ??????s , almost to the point of bothering. It tells me his head is in the right place. Some guys ask " When is lunch, or " what time we getting off, that is usually the first sign of a guy not worth the effort. Oh ya, teaching your own kid has got to be even harder.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

he has a great attitude about learning and work ethic. he shows up everyday and listens too, i just think he is finding the finishing side of things frustrating. we also do a lot of carpentry. i'm about 50% carpentry 50% drywall and he seems to take to carpentry a little easier. it does not seem a question of is he worth it its more i'm just wondering how long it can take to get them producing an acceptable product. 
i am aware that some people are not cut out for finishing i'm just hoping he is not one of them.


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## ell (Jan 24, 2009)

When I first started 40 years ago it was union residential.Track houses 300-400 in a development.My first task was running nails never touched tape never saw a journeyman.First,Second and Third coat.Do only that every day you get fast and neat,then brush corners closests & garage. by then you got a feel for the basics.The union has a three year apprenticeship.I think thats way to long but doing a different coats every day will take awhile.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> i've got a young guy working for me now and he's been with me since september. every now and then i give him some joints or some patches to coat and it always seems to be quite a struggle. its been about five years since i started learning and i don't really remember it being very hard. i'm sure i was slow and i know my work did not look like it does now but i've never trained anyone before and i don't really know how long it should take to be able to put out an acceptable product.
> in fairness to him most of my work is really tricky tie-ins and big nasty floats, the kind of stuff you just can't let a new guy do. i finally have a couple of longer walls (8' sheets lots of butts) that i have decided are perfect for him to learn on. its not like i expect him to master it after coating four 20' walls but i'm just trying to give him some of the simpler work we have gotten.
> my questions are is it possible to teach someone to coat who is not taking to it quickly? or do i just have no idea how long it should take for someone come around the learning curve? i was not trained by anyone in the beginning. i've worked for guys for a few days here and there but that was quite a while after i had become profficient.
> i think i am pretty good at explaining things and demonstrating but its impossible to transmit a skill acquired by feel and practice.also any tips on training newbs and things they should be started on would be great.
> he is past the nailspotting/wiping tapes stage.


If your looking to teach him coating, then you let him do first coat on the corner bead. You HALF to do the second coat, then you can have him skim coat them.

Let him skim coat stuff, aids in getting his motions down, which will lead to coating.

Or you could get him a 10" curve trowel, but then his work might end up looking nicer than yours:whistling2:


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

chris said:


> Teaching this trade to a newb has got to be one of the hardest things. I can usually tell right off the bat if a guy is even worth the effort of training. If you are questioning how or why or wtf then chances are the guy is not worth the time. I want a guy to ask ??????s , almost to the point of bothering. It tells me his head is in the right place. Some guys ask " When is lunch, or " what time we getting off, that is usually the first sign of a guy not worth the effort. Oh ya, teaching your own kid has got to be even harder.


you hit the nail on the head:hammer: ......finishing is one of those things that you either have the nack for it and can get better or just forget it.....some people just cant do it no matter how much they keep doing it.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Some guys make a sandwich and get miracle whip on the handel and some guys dont


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

It is hard enough teaching a newbie on a new residential or commercial job when you do it daily. I couldn't imagine trying to teach on tie ins and floats. I always start them off spotting screws gets them used to using the knives. After that its bead and any angles to be ran by hand. They also run all the boxes. Ultimately sanding will make someone a better mudder then almost anything else. I have had guys work for me for years that I wouldn't let run butts let alone run tape out of banjo or bazooka. I came to terms long ago that certain jobs would be performed by me only. putting on bead, Taping, mudding butts, applying textures either spray on or rolled on. The only other person in the last 8 years that I would allow to do these things was my brother after 5 years of working with me.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

cdwoodcox said:


> It is hard enough teaching a newbie on a new residential or commercial job when you do it daily. I couldn't imagine trying to teach on tie ins and floats. I always start them off spotting screws gets them used to using the knives. After that its bead and any angles to be ran by hand. They also run all the boxes. Ultimately sanding will make someone a better mudder then almost anything else. I have had guys work for me for years that I wouldn't let run butts let alone run tape out of banjo or bazooka. I came to terms long ago that certain jobs would be performed by me only. putting on bead, Taping, mudding butts, applying textures either spray on or rolled on. The only other person in the last 8 years that I would allow to do these things was my brother after 5 years of working with me.


Patience,Patience,Patience. My Senseless apprentice has 8 Months with me And still there's more mud on the floor then the wall. He wants to learn and has interest in the Trade And doesn't mind being covered head to toe and plaster. So I'm letting him earn his stripes. http://youtu.be/RSZYcWzXd9I


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

When I first started out ..My Dad would say 'I don't care how long it takes you ..don't walk away from that spot till it's right!'while he's running through the house like a mad hatter...:blink:..

Best way to train a greenhorn Is to tie him to you..1 step behind you for atleast a month or so ..This way they get the system and method your running..

Even a guy with bad habits will stop and listen when you explain It's Details that matter the most..That's what will make or break you as a hanger or finisher..Details


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

chris said:


> Teaching this trade to a newb has got to be one of the hardest things. I can usually tell right off the bat if a guy is even worth the effort of training. If you are questioning how or why or wtf then chances are the guy is not worth the time. I want a guy to ask ??????s , almost to the point of bothering. It tells me his head is in the right place. Some guys ask " When is lunch, or " what time we getting off, that is usually the first sign of a guy not worth the effort. Oh ya, teaching your own kid has got to be even harder.


 My ole man Is Half bald and gray headed....Ya know why???


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

cdwoodcox said:


> It is hard enough teaching a newbie on a new residential or commercial job when you do it daily. I couldn't imagine trying to teach on tie ins and floats. I always start them off spotting screws gets them used to using the knives. After that its bead and any angles to be ran by hand. They also run all the boxes.


I agree cd. Once they learn how to spot,then bead and hand tape they should have generally figured out how to manipulate the knives comfortably. I never allowed anyone near a box until they could coat with a hawk and trowel first. Or pan and knife. Just not on my job.
They can then apply the same techniques with different manipulation.

As far as how long should it take to train someone that is hard to say. I once gave a 17 yr old female student a 2 week crash course of on site training and even took her to a couple side jobs. I swear I could have turned her into a really good taper in less than 6 months. But then there was the guy who took all winter to learn how to spot screws.Because it was warmer inside he said.:furious: Only the bottom ones though because he was afraid of heights.:blink:


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

the butts he loaded yesterday were pretty rough by my standards but they sanded up okay and he skimmed them quite well today. loading is the hardest to learn i think. skimming is a lot easier. he loaded some patches this morning and did pretty well. they will still need more of a load than a skim for final coat but he is showing more promise. i'm just at the point where i need him to be able to coat in order to keep him busy. his knife skills for the smaller stuff have gotten pretty good. it's learning the trowel that i am really pushing. 

he has lots more to coat tomorrow, both loading and skimming so at least there is lots of practice to be had.:thumbup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

chris said:


> Some guys make a sandwich and get miracle whip on the handel and some guys dont


I've been noticing lately that when I make my son a peanut butter sandwich for his lunch I'm trying to coat the whole thing with no lap marks....let's call it an L5 sandwich.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I don't think you should worry about whether or not he'll get it, but I also think you shouldn't expect for it to happen all that fast either. If you're not doing it every day, he's going to have trouble gaining the muscle memory. He's also going to have trouble remembering every detail once time has elapsed. Learning takes time, and taping is one of those things that takes some real time in before a person can get good at it. Hell, there are plenty of 20-30 year veterans who still haven't learned to do it right. :whistling2:

Maybe you need to figure out a way to teach him that's easy on him and his skill level (or lack of it?)


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

also when i spread on toast i make sure i don't have any hollow crust(bead). nobody spreads condiments like a finisher.

we do drywall often for a month at a time so it is not like he won't get back to back days doing it. i just did six weeks of taping straight which got to be a little much for me although that had a lot to do with what it was. hundreds of horribly cut strips and holes in a nursing home in a couple dozen rooms. they are re-piping. i don't even cut it out square anymore i just hold the board up and scribe. i've gotten pretty good at fitting parallelograms and snake shaped boards just by eye. that and a whole lot of confill does the trick. all 5/8" board and the latest wing is gyproc lathe so it is even worse.
the other job is a super high end reno where the homeowner/architect changes his mind every other day. and if it is not him it is the electrician cutting holes or a leak or just something that is finally ready to board. every time i show up there is new patches. i was there every day for three weeks just doing patches and floats and i've been there every other day for three more.
at least i have a cool modern style garage to frame in a few weeks(i love framing:thumbup.


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I've been noticing lately that when I make my son a peanut butter sandwich for his lunch I'm trying to coat the whole thing with no lap marks....let's call it an L5 sandwich.


:thumbup: thats funny as he** !!!! 

SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED TO START A NEW PIC. THREAD.... "SHOW YOUR LEVEL 5 SANDWICH" OR "TEXTURE SANDWICH" :thumbup:

I can see the look on my wifes face now when im doing a stomp and knock down with peanut butter on 1 and level 5 on another!!!!:laughing:


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