# Pinholes and craters in texture



## Rubicon_Dave

I'm a warranty manager for a homebuilder and one of our homeowners is complaining about pinholes and craters in the texture throughout the entire home. I talked to our drywall subcontractor and he says it's natural and nothing can be done about it. I've read through information from the various drywall suppliers (Westpac, USG, National...) and various drywall associations and the possible causes for the bubbles come down to a few things:

Too much water in the mix
Air entrained in the mix
Texture gun too close to wall
Bubbles in paint, not a drywall issue

So the questions I have are:

Is this "natural" or not?
What can be done to fix the pin holes?
I've done the search and I see plenty of posts regarding bubbles and pinholes in the mud during taping but I couldn't find anything specific to pinholes in the texture.

Here's what I'm looking at:


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## moore

Ever tried painting with a brush or roller nap that was damp? It will leave those bubbles. or maybe the texture was not completly cure before paint?
I don't do that type of texture,,But It looks like the craters are in the texture itself. If it's just where the joints are ,,Thats easy..The skim coat was still wet when they textured..But you say it's through out the home. 

There's alot of spray pros here.:yes: You'll get your answer I'm sure of that.


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## Tucker

Does not look like paint filled in the pockets..so could be the paint. I would think the paint would have soften the edges.


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## Philma Crevices

I've done this! 

Happened with my thin mix for fine orangepeel with a hopper.... sprayed it on too heavy on an area of the wall, **** happens :whistling2: Looks like what your guy did as well be it hopper or rig. That is very heavy spray. You can tell his mix was thin by how flat it lays, also piled on (probably to cover a multitude of sins)

Are most walls like this? Answer that it is "natural" is bs. Depending on how much of the home is in this condition, you could dab mud with your finger on the holes and wipe off to leave it with the texture look without respraying, or wipe on wet sponge off.


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## Rubicon_Dave

The holes were there before paint was applied. I would not expect holes in the texture in the first place and I would not expect the paint to fill them. I'm not a drywaller by trade but I've done a fair amount of drywall in my own home and others over the years and I've never had an issue with pin holes or craters. maybe I just haven't done enough for it to crop up yet, who knows.

I talked to the local drywall materials rep that services this particular drywall company and he indicated the pin holes were not normal. He's aware of them appearing when you apply texture over a previously painted surface but not over fresh drywall on new production. He explained that a painted surface acts as a water barrier and the moisture in the mud can only migrate to the surface, (and you get bubbles...) whereas with fresh drywall the facing paper will absorb some of the moisture in the mud and avoid creating bubbles.


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## Rubicon_Dave

Philma Crevices said:


> I've done this!
> 
> Are most walls like this? Answer that it is "natural" is bs. Depending on how much of the home is in this condition, you could dab mud with your finger on the holes and wipe off to leave it with the texture look without respraying, or wipe on wet sponge off.


Yes, numerous walls in the home have areas on them like in the photos, enough for the homeowner to complain about it. Our quality standards are; "defects visible to the untrained eye from a distance of 6 feet under normal lighting conditions". This was taken out of the "California Building Performance Guidelines" book. These pinholes are numerous enough and large enough that they are visible to the homeowner.

Currently the fix appears to be what you mentioned but with a twist... the supplier suggested _spackling_ the holes and then sponging. The spackle won't shrink like mud will, and the sponge over the top after filling the holes will maintain the profile of the texture. If that's the case, the poor guy that get's called out for the repair will be in the house for a while...


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## Philma Crevices

Rubicon_Dave said:


> If that's the case, the poor guy that get's called out for the repair will be in the house for a while...


 We all learn somewhere :whistling2:
In the end he'll be better for it and probably spray lighter. Honestly, that texture is God aweful, you can see gravities work on it before drying, the sag and almost drip look. What type of spray rig your guys using?


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## chris

It looks like the mud maybe didnt get mixed thoroughly and have a proper resting before the final spin. It is heavy also which could add to the pocs. If I had to guess it was a huury hurry outfit with a spray machine and a rookie mixing the mud. The spray is a touch on the unproffessional side as well. A good prime and backroll ( 3/4 nap) would have eliminated most of them.


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## silverstilts

Philma Crevices said:


> I've done this!
> 
> Happened with my thin mix for fine orangepeel with a hopper.... sprayed it on too heavy on an area of the wall, **** happens :whistling2: Looks like what your guy did as well be it hopper or rig. That is very heavy spray. You can tell his mix was thin by how flat it lays, also piled on (probably to cover a multitude of sins)
> 
> Are most walls like this? Answer that it is "natural" is bs. Depending on how much of the home is in this condition, you could dab mud with your finger on the holes and wipe off to leave it with the texture look without respraying, or wipe on wet sponge off.


I agree to thin and too much pressure spraying will cause this and to much over spraying (too heavy). And also if the gun gets too close to the walls you end up with the same effect, happens every once in a while when I spray a small closet and get twisted up in there where the guns not moving it builds up fast and then you get them craters and pinholes.


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## 2buckcanuck

Philma Crevices said:


> I've done this!
> 
> Happened with my thin mix for fine orangepeel with a hopper.... sprayed it on too heavy on an area of the wall, **** happens :whistling2: Looks like what your guy did as well be it hopper or rig. That is very heavy spray. You can tell his mix was thin by how flat it lays, also piled on (probably to cover a multitude of sins)
> 
> Are most walls like this? Answer that it is "natural" is bs. Depending on how much of the home is in this condition, you could dab mud with your finger on the holes and wipe off to leave it with the texture look without respraying, or wipe on wet sponge off.


Guess I'm the third one to agree:yes::thumbsup:


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## drywall guy158

my first question is......has the finisher done other jobs for you ??? ....... and my other question is.......could you post up a larger pic of one of the rooms...I myself and i'm shure other guys on here would like to see a larger area of that "mess" so called texture !!!


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## Rubicon_Dave

I'm meeting with the drywall sub and the material supplier at the house next week... I'll get some more photos of the texture and keep you posted.


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## jimmyit

I would leave it and not phuck with it too much. You'll end up with a mess worse than what it is now.
If you do try a repair, (sponge or rag or whatever), start in a small area like the inside of a closet to see how it will look.


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## chris

jimmyit said:


> I would leave it and not phuck with it too much. You'll end up with a mess worse than what it is now.
> If you do try a repair, (sponge or rag or whatever), start in a small area like the inside of a closet to see how it will look.


Thats a good idea:yes: also try to spot prime areas with holes with a primer and weenie roller,, I bet you 95% will disapear , but you may see a stipple from roller if a roller wasnt used prior:blink:


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## SlimPickins

Rubicon_Dave said:


> I'm meeting with the drywall sub and the material supplier at the house next week... I'll get some more photos of the texture and keep you posted.


Yikes.

Please, for the sake of my curiosity keep us posted on the developments of this debacle. I want to know how he attempts to fix it, and I want to see final photos too. You know, so I can learn stuff and stuff.

Personally, I'd offer the homeowner/client a custom hand texture and go right over the whole damn thing. My selling point? "Okay, in an effort to rectify this situation, I'd like to offer you a higher end finish, free of charge"....and sell the hell out of it using catchwords like "timeless" and "elegant" or whatever it is that fits the mood of the home and the client. Poor bastard, having to work for free AND pay the painter to repaint.....:whistling2::yes:

Oh, and as for "it's natural and nothing can be done about it" .........:lol::lol:


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## Philma Crevices

Paint won't cover holes like those, it's simular to thumbtack holes in office walls, they don't go away by themselves. best fix honestly is dab with finger wipe off, not leaving any compound except in the pin hole to preserve texture, bigger holes like anchors (after fixing)can dip a side of a sponge in mud and fake an orangepeel over it... I've done alot of small chit like this to avoid breaking out the hopper :whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

Philma Crevices said:


> Paint won't cover holes like those, it's simular to thumbtack holes in office walls, they don't go away by themselves. best fix honestly is dab with finger wipe off, not leaving any compound except in the pin hole to preserve texture, bigger holes like anchors (after fixing)can dip a side of a sponge in mud and fake an orangepeel over it... I've done alot of small chit like this to avoid breaking out the hopper :whistling2:


I've seen some painters in a subdivision in town using a one coat system (and I mean ONE coat....that serves as prime, first, and second coat). _They _could cover those pinholes. That sh*t is like spraying 6 mil visqueen on the walls :laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> I've seen some painters in a subdivision in town using a one coat system (and I mean ONE coat....that serves as prime, first, and second coat). _They _could cover those pinholes. That sh*t is like spraying 6 mil visqueen on the walls :laughing:


I thought 3 coats to most painters meant going "UP","DOWN","UP AGAIN" with the roller:whistling2:


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## Philma Crevices

SlimPickins said:


> I've seen some painters in a subdivision in town using a one coat system (and I mean ONE coat....that serves as prime, first, and second coat). _They _could cover those pinholes. That sh*t is like spraying 6 mil visqueen on the walls :laughing:


 Sounds nasty...:blink:


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## Philma Crevices

SlimPickins said:


> Poor bastard, having to work for free AND pay the painter to repaint.....:whistling2::yes:
> 
> Oh, and as for "it's natural and nothing can be done about it" .........:lol::lol:


That just made me wonder how tinting mud or patch n paint would turn out for touchups liek this, probably fine for fixing flat. Years back there was a painter on one of our jobs spot painting eggshell and the forman I was apprenticing with was asking him about some additive he was using that kept it from flashing. I guess it came out well, I didn't know chit at the time but remembered it just now.


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## chris

Primer would fill/ fix that right up. Ive got lots of experience with skimming/texturing and painting on new and older painted walls. Its worked for me more times that I can count:yes:. Give it a shot,, you will be spot priming any ways. You may have to get jiggy with the mini roller but trust me they will go away. Or you can always go thru with mud and spackle in a couple thousand pinhole with your tips of fingers but it will look even worse cause whoever has to fix wont give a chit. Was it ever backrolled or rolled??? Painter should agree with me but someones gonna want paid:whistling2:


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## SlimPickins

Philma Crevices said:


> Sounds nasty...:blink:


Yeah, it is/was. I remember going in while paint was drying, and being flabbergasted at the amount of material sagging off the horizontal bullnose corners.


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## Rubicon_Dave

Philma Crevices said:


> I've done alot of small chit like this to avoid breaking out the hopper :whistling2:


Thanks, I'll try that...

Speaking of Hopper;

I put a Fernco rubber reducer on my sprayer in place of the hopper and filled it with mud from the pan as I went. It was much easier for touch ups in water closets and tight spaces. If I needed to do overhead I slipped in a 4" PVC wide radius 90 and it allows me to aim up without the mud spilling out the back. I've got a Spruzzi as well but I find the gun is still easier in tight spaces. (and easier on my pumping arm... :thumbsup


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## The_Texture_Guy

This was 100% preventable. Just by your small pictures, the texture has to much water in it. It's hard to tell the pressure behind it but he probably had high pressure or a big tip to get bigger dots and stood far away, but you can look at the curves on the texture.. It's always at the bottom and not even all around its edges. Meaning the texture starts to run down. He probably didnt want to mix the material again and just hoped that it would turn out ok. Well you have a picky home owner, who will not be satisfied. I can guarantee that. Ive had home owners complain that paint didnt match the rest of the house on patches. the home builder blamed it on us texture guys, saying we didnt put texture hardener in the mix. the truth was the color of paint faded a bit after it was put on the walls and the home owner could see the patches. Anyways.... good luck with this one. its going to be a nightmare for you.


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## Tim0282

The_Texture_Guy said:


> This was 100% preventable. Just by your small pictures, the texture has to much water in it. It's hard to tell the pressure behind it but he probably had high pressure or a big tip to get bigger dots and stood far away, but you can look at the curves on the texture.. It's always at the bottom and not even all around its edges. Meaning the texture starts to run down. He probably didnt want to mix the material again and just hoped that it would turn out ok. Well you have a picky home owner, who will not be satisfied. I can guarantee that. Ive had home owners complain that paint didnt match the rest of the house on patches. the home builder blamed it on us texture guys, saying we didnt put texture hardener in the mix. the truth was the color of paint faded a bit after it was put on the walls and the home owner could see the patches. Anyways.... good luck with this one. its going to be a nightmare for you.


Hey Texture Guy, what is texture hardner. I have never heard of it. I have always used bag texture mixed the day before and remixed the day texturing. Have never added anything to it. Should I? (sorry off subject here) On subject, that is some seriously ugly texture. What in the world?!?


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## Rubicon_Dave

Update:

So all of us met with the homeowner last week and once we all got to meet face to face the rep for the materials supplier started back peddling on his original comments. When we chatted over the phone the initial response was "_no, pinholes aren't normal_" but once he was standing in front of his buyer (the drywall contractor) the tone became "well, this is acceptable." His comment to the homeowner was "well, now that I'm seeing it in person it's not as bad as I had imagined..." 

The homeowner's wife is from a family of contractors and they all commented that the pinholes in the texture was wrong. The homeowner is also having a new addition done at his office space and they are getting a similar texture job... there were no pin holes in their texture. 

I've been reading through the mixing procedures from various suppliers and almost all of them have a warning in the mixing section that reads as such:

_Over-thinning may cause poor bond, pinholes, and cracking._

I think many of you hit the nail on the head, the mix was watered down and too thin.

The drywall company has agreed to make it right and they'll be filling the problematic areas by hand... we'll see what happens.

I have more photos of the texture but I need to go through and load them to my photobucket account. I'll load those as time permits.

to be continued...


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## The_Texture_Guy

Tim0282 said:


> Hey Texture Guy, what is texture hardner. I have never heard of it. I have always used bag texture mixed the day before and remixed the day texturing. Have never added anything to it. Should I? (sorry off subject here) On subject, that is some seriously ugly texture. What in the world?!?


It comes in five gallon buckets, i think from Color Wheel. It basically is just really thin latex. You add it to the mud while it is beating up so when sprayed, it kind of coats the texture for painting... Once this stuff is on, it is real hard to rub the texture off a wall. Helps it bond. But i dont see how it would affect a paint job. if new paint is applied to paint that has sat for a week, i would expect a mild color differnce as well. this stuff smells real bad as well.

I couldnt find a picture of it, but here is a link to the pdf from the stores we get it at.. It is usually supplied to us by the drywall contractor.

http://www.colorwheel.com/product_information/pdf/prod_data/460_pds.pdf


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## harvey randall

*pin holes*

tex,guy on target along with the other guys. dont remember where this happened, but temp mean a lot. turn temp down take longer to dry, heat wont pull as much h20 out as faST. VERY COMPLEX- AINT IT GREAT. sand the walls that are bad, break the moon, blow um with compressed air- spray and dont back roll right away, untill the paint has congealed. then back roll with small knapp, a small mix of mud will help ---------- but you are still looking at a second after the mud/paint mix. good luck pal.


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