# What sizes?



## Scott_w (Jun 16, 2010)

I am new to auto tool sets. I think I have pretty much everything I need, except maybe the proper angle heads.

I have a 3", but have heard many talk of the 3 1/2". Is the larger one needed, or am I fine with a 3"? Also do I need a smaller one as well?

thanks...scott


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

We use a three inch on the first coat (tape) and a three and one quarter on the second. for years we used three first and two second. You'll have kind of a fat edge if oyu use three both coats.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Scott_w said:


> I am new to auto tool sets. I think I have pretty much everything I need, except maybe the proper angle heads.
> 
> I have a 3", but have heard many talk of the 3 1/2". Is the larger one needed, or am I fine with a 3"? Also do I need a smaller one as well?
> 
> thanks...scott


You need two differant sizes, cause if you don't, as mentioned, you will leave a hard edge when you two coat with the same size. I use the bigger first and the smaller second. Some do it the other way. I prefer the 3 1/2 over the three, simply cause it comes farther down OFF the bevel (think top wall board) than the 3. However a 3 will do you fine.

Another factor to consider is a mudrunner vs a corner box. With a mudrunner a 3 1/2 is no big deal, but its a bit mo work with a corner box.

Anyway, your gonna have to have at least two differant sizes.


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## Scott_w (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. Yes I have a mudrunner. So should I go with the 3.5" then or the smaller (2, 2.5"?).

Would I use the mudrunner for both?

thanks...scott


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

So many ways.......I prefer the 2 1/2 mechanical head first because it fits by your door jams better ,tight spots etc.you can push on it lightly and it fills the bevel good,fast to rough sand too,use to go with a 3 1/2 
In your case you might be better to go bigger ,2 1/2 and then 3" may not feather out enough,maybe 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 .experiment in closets etc ,change back and forth between sizes till you find the method you like ,3' then 31/2 or 3 1/2 then 3" ,even try 3" and 3" (just rough sand edge good)
the crazy way Im doing it now is 2 1/2" tape tec mechanical head then a can am 3 1/2 " wiping head .YES I said it a cam am head.yes they wear out but you can file them to get their point-edge back and you can adjust the flow of mud by moving the runners (skies) forwards or back .around 80 bucks for can am head ,cheaper than a set of blades for a mechanical head.be prepared to learn how to adjust your blades all the time with mechanical ,there is maintenance with them.dont put tape on with can am though,mechanical better
so since you have a mud runner (not me $1400 cdn)try a can am flusher head (one with hole in it) on your mud runner ,you could be surprised and it's cheaper too (over your 3")


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## Scott_w (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks. I also have the BTE flusher kit. I wonder if I can drill a bigger hole in them and use un the mud runner?

FYI.. there is a mud runner on ebay right now for a starting bid of 175 or buy it now for 400. I have no idea how good it is. Just passing it on.

I bought mine used, and all my other stuff is used as well (mostly from ebay). I did by a new adjustable box handle though.

scott


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## Scott_w (Jun 16, 2010)

I have found a few used 3.5" heads, what is better columbia or drywallmaster? I think the DM is newer, with new blades that need adjustment. Is this hard to do?

scott


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

whats better ? sorta like fighting about who's better chevy or ford,it's preference,pick the one that looks stronger .(mine tape tec)
how to adjust the blades---easier to show than explain
http://www.drywallmastertools.com/corner-finishers.php here's a pick of one for reference 
-1st pray to god you can get the little ellen key set screws out without striping them
-squeeze and hold or squeeze and duct tape the head ,hope you know what i mean -so the wings are under pressure,don't leave it in its relaxed position 
-top blades easy,just keep points centered,then tighten screws 
-now keep head in relaxed position ,(stop squeezing wings or take duct tape off !
-now put side blades in, they MIGHT!! need adjusting,they should sit one millimeter below top blades,DONT keep them level to top blades,just tiny bit below them.
-now make sure side blades sitting level and tighten 
-side blades have most effect (not all) on the flow of mud
-spark plug gauge comes in handy too,you can use it for box blade adjustments too
-your new head might tear tapes at 1st too ,just rub point against cement floor ,brick or what ever -not too much !!
which area of ontario you working in ,I'm south western (Lon.)


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## Scott_w (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks, I am in St. Catharines. All my stuff so far is Tapetech, with the exception of the pump and 3" head.

Just searching ebay for some deals.  Then I have to learn how to use the stuff!

thanks....scott


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Scott_w said:


> Thanks for the replies. Yes I have a mudrunner. So should I go with the 3.5" then or the smaller (2, 2.5"?).
> 
> Would I use the mudrunner for both?
> 
> thanks...scott


If you use the mudrunner, Use the 3 1/2 (on the murunner) when you tape, then a 2 1/2 for the second (skim) on the mudrunner.

Or you can use a 3 then a 2. Again I prefer to run the bigger then the smaller, some like to do it the oppisite way (even if I never understand that, cept maybe they are stuck in the "hand finihing" mode).


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If you use the mudrunner, Use the 3 1/2 (on the murunner) when you tape, then a 2 1/2 for the second (skim) on the mudrunner.
> 
> Or you can use a 3 then a 2. Again I prefer to run the bigger then the smaller, some like to do it the oppisite way (even if I never understand that, cept maybe they are stuck in the "hand finihing" mode).


So a guy that uses a bazooka,a 2 1/2 " mechanical wiper on a angel handle,then flushes /glazes with a 3 1/2" angel box-mud runner-can am tube-or what ever ......."ARE STUCK IN THE HAND FINISHING MODE"
i'm confused now 
you sure you even half to corner flush your angles if your using a mudrunner to wipe your angle tapes.sounds like your putting a lot of mud on your tapes like a HAND taper would,are you loading with that mudrunner while your wiping your angle tapes???or using it empty like a angel handle (applying no mud while you wipe)???


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> So a guy that uses a bazooka,a 2 1/2 " mechanical wiper on a angel handle,then flushes /glazes with a 3 1/2" angel box-mud runner-can am tube-or what ever ......."ARE STUCK IN THE HAND FINISHING MODE"
> i'm confused now
> you sure you even half to corner flush your angles if your using a mudrunner to wipe your angle tapes.sounds like your putting a lot of mud on your tapes like a HAND taper would,are you loading with that mudrunner while your wiping your angle tapes???or using it empty like a angel handle (applying no mud while you wipe)???



I think they are loading the angles.

Bazooka leaves plenty to mud to flush off with 3" on a handle. Then close to end of the job I angle box with a 2 1/2'" to cover the tape.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

oh no i agree mudstar,I know with mechanical heads they suggest bigger then smaller,but if you switched small to big and run corner box it still puts mud on very very very damn tight.would not compare that to hand taping.
now back in my younger days we put a 3 1/2" columbia head on a can am tube to wipe and load tape at same time.talk about flash ,by the time we done sanding the crap out of it we were like do we even half to flush this (we did)
learn by mistakes,thats what eventually makes you good one day...... you from Ontario too mudstar ?


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You need two differant sizes, cause if you don't, as mentioned, you will leave a hard edge when you two coat with the same size.


Different.

I ran a 3" for a full year flushing and coating and never had those problems.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Gee fella's I guess I ruffled some feathers here.

What I meant about "hand Finishers" is that some folks never get the hang of running a smaller head after a larger one, cause in hand finishing, you always run smaller to bigger. Thats all, didn't mean to belittle anyone,,, okay??

I tape with the bazooka, run the corner roller then run the mudrunner with the 3 1/2 head, putting mud on as i do it. Second coat I run with the mudrunner and a 2 1/2 head.

Like I stated several times, there as many differant ways to do it. mine is not the only way, it works for me, so I do it like that. 

I also keep a 2" head on a pole just for them pesky little corners by the tight doors that are too small for the 3 1/2.


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Gee fella's I guess I ruffled some feathers here.
> 
> What I meant about "hand Finishers" is that some folks never get the hang of running a smaller head after a larger one, cause in hand finishing, you always run smaller to bigger. Thats all, didn't mean to belittle anyone,,, okay??
> 
> ...


I'm with you Captain. I run a 2.5" to wipe my tape, a 3" for 1st coat, and a 2" for third coat. If I used the 3" after the 2" the wings on my 3" wouldn't reach tight to the wall and I'd have to feather out everything by hand. 

I have to run the angle head over the wall twice to get a pretty enough bead. Is this common? I do run my corner mud thicker than some, its nearly thick enough for my flat boxes--I find it cuts down the risk of fish eyes.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> you from Ontario too mudstar ?


I'm in a couple places in Canada but not at the same time.

:whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Im not having any trouble with a 2.5 followed with a 3.5 on the mudrunner, I find the 2.5 nicer for setting up the 3 way corners then cover it all with the 3.5, its leaving a nice level corner, no ridges, good feathered edge.

Love the mudrunner, its fast and easy, leaves a really great coat, less filling and less pushing than my anglebox.

Funny how we all have so many different ways to acheive the same thing.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Saul_Surfaces said:


> I'm with you Captain. I run a 2.5" to wipe my tape, a 3" for 1st coat, and a 2" for third coat. If I used the 3" after the 2" the wings on my 3" wouldn't reach tight to the wall and I'd have to feather out everything by hand.
> 
> I have to run the angle head over the wall twice to get a pretty enough bead. Is this common? I do run my corner mud thicker than some, its nearly thick enough for my flat boxes--I find it cuts down the risk of fish eyes.


I have done it that way before. However, it makes for one extra coat your way. I figured out that if I use the mudrunner with the 3 1/2 on the first coat, it elimanated the "wipe the tape coat first, let dry and then run again" step.

You mentioned that you have to run the anglehead over the wall twice,,, I know this will bring up another can of worms, but if you do, it is simply because your mud is too thick. Thin mud on a mudrunner will dry out as well or BETTER than thick mud run by hand or by a corner box. 

Again, don't take my word for it, just pick a small room and try it for yourself.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Mudstar said:


> I think they are loading the angles.
> 
> Bazooka leaves plenty to mud to flush off with 3" on a handle. Then close to end of the job I angle box with a 2 1/2'" to cover the tape.


Mud, I have alot of respect for you and your posts,, However,,, what kind of bazooka are you running??? I have a DM Col & TT, none of which leave enough mud to simply glaze with a 3" anglehead on a pole.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I'll answer for mudstar,I got one tt,2columbia bazooka's ,it's in your mud mix (and rolling) for me to push a 3 1/2" I'm guessing 10 to 12 cups of water (tim horton's large)in your mud mix,I use to do it,but that's one reason I switched to 2 1/2 to wipe. 7 to 8 cups for that,Also the type of mud you use affects this too,mud very Important,If you were to make a wonder invention for taping,invent one coat mud


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Saul_Surfaces said:


> I'm with you Captain. I run a 2.5" to wipe my tape, a 3" for 1st coat, and a 2" for third coat. If I used the 3" after the 2" the wings on my 3" wouldn't reach tight to the wall and I'd have to feather out everything by hand.
> 
> I have to run the angle head over the wall twice to get a pretty enough bead. Is this common? I do run my corner mud thicker than some, its nearly thick enough for my flat boxes--I find it cuts down the risk of fish eyes.


 you must be big strong taper,make your mud more runny ,you admit to running it thicker than some...so!The runnier the mud u get less fish eyes,mud types make a difference,I use same type for EVERYTHING till it comes to angles,try a all purpose or lite weight,dont forget sanding is part of the process and three times over angles is costing you money ,unless your paid by hour,experiment


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I know this is not very professionall, but I use whatever is the cheapest mud at the time.

Don't really make ALL that much differance, since we wet it down like we do. Thin mud doesn't have much of an issue with "poch marks" or "fish eyes". Thats a problem that hand finishers have.

In other words, if your not running it thick,, it AIN'T a problem.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Don't really make ALL that much differance, since we wet it down like we do. Thin mud doesn't have much of an issue with "poch marks" or "fish eyes". Thats a problem that hand finishers have.
> 
> In other words, if your not running it thick,, it AIN'T a problem.


 Where do you find this magic backwards mud?
What I've experienced running thick mud / thin mud, whether through machines or by hand, compared to what you just said is completely the opposite.

It would be better to state that it's the tools and how they're used instead of how you run your mud that will influence how bad they fish-eye.

The only circumstance in support of what you said is if the mud is mixed for too long in the bucket. But then it will fish-eye regardless of how thin you mix.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Bevelation said:


> Where do you find this magic backwards mud?
> What I've experienced running thick mud / thin mud, whether through machines or by hand, compared to what you just said is completely the opposite.
> 
> It would be better to state that it's the tools and how they're used instead of how you run your mud that will influence how bad they fish-eye.
> ...


I disagree, really disagree.

Mud wil fish-eye,(pock) when it is thick,, If its thin ANY mud will work and pock-marks(fish-eyes) are not a problem,

The tools are not the problem,, the thickness of the mud and how heavy it is,,, is the problem!

I could be wrong,,, but I'm NOT


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I disagree, really disagree.
> 
> Mud wil fish-eye,(pock) when it is thick,, If its thin ANY mud will work and pock-marks(fish-eyes) are not a problem,
> 
> ...


Gladly, I don't use the mud you're using.

I've only experienced constant fish-eyes with certain setting compounds mixed heavy, which I never use for coating anyway.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Bevelation said:


> Gladly, I don't use the mud you're using.
> 
> I've only experienced constant fish-eyes with certain setting compounds mixed heavy, which I never use for coating anyway.


You may have a point,,, I have only used 
1)usg, green lid (all four types) blue lid,purple lid,white lid
2)pro-form, black lid, red lid,blue lid, burgandy lid
3)ruco
4)premier
5)LaFarge (rapid coat and regular)
6)easy-finish
7)dura-baond (brown bag) 90,120
8)easy-sand 5,20,45,90,120

So I may not have enough time in it to give a resonable response,,,,

My bad !!!!


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Hey Capt. You haven't used Murco? What's up with that? If you would ever try it, you wouldn't go back to all of the others!


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Well Capt, I'll have to try the 3.5 first before the 2.5. I always found that a first pass with a 2.5 would sometimes sink into a bevel leaving it underfilled. Got an Apla setup now so the extra loading on the 3.5 shouldn't be a problem.

D'S


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Mud, I have alot of respect for you and your posts,, However,,, what kind of bazooka are you running??? I have a DM Col & TT, none of which leave enough mud to simply glaze with a 3" anglehead on a pole.


I run concorde and blueline and both leave enough mud with no voids


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> I run concorde and blueline and both leave enough mud with no voids


wow ,you got a concorde that still runs :jester:


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I have done it that way before. However, it makes for one extra coat your way. I figured out that if I use the mudrunner with the 3 1/2 on the first coat, it elimanated the "wipe the tape coat first, let dry and then run again" step.
> 
> You mentioned that you have to run the anglehead over the wall twice,,, I know this will bring up another can of worms, but if you do, it is simply because your mud is too thick. Thin mud on a mudrunner will dry out as well or BETTER than thick mud run by hand or by a corner box.
> 
> Again, don't take my word for it, just pick a small room and try it for yourself.


thanks for the insight. I'd been running mud nearly thick enough to flat box with because it didn't give me fish eyes, where really soupy mud seemed to. It might be that the side blades on my angle heads should be extended out closer to the wall. They're pretty much flush with the front blades on my setup. I mix a little bit of setting compound into my mud on the top coat to get enough mud to cover the tape well (again, likely since my blades are set to wipe too tight). As the season gets slower I should take advantage of the extra time to play with the blades and mud thickness.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> wow ,you got a concorde that still runs :jester:



MY repairs are done with tape tech parts so far and I will need a chain soon. I will have to measure it when I take it a part to see who's chain is going to fit.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> So I may not have enough time in it to give a resonable response,,,,
> 
> My bad !!!!


No problem. I was about to call you a stubborn old man.

Now, I'll just call you an old man.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You may have a point,,, I have only used
> 1)usg, green lid (all four types) blue lid,purple lid,white lid
> 2)pro-form, black lid, red lid,blue lid, burgandy lid
> 3)ruco
> ...



I'm sensing some sarcasm here ! I only get fish eyes over painted surfaces. I like to mix the box of mud ( The Best Mud or Stynko  ) for a good minute with NO water for first coat on my bead and from 10' away you would think it was a finish coat. My first coat on butts is the same mud and no fish eyes. It's all in how you apply it. I find if you always finish trowel in the opposite direction of applying it, you will eliminate the fish eyes.

And yes I'm talking hand work. I do both hand and machine but nothing beats a good hand job ! Why re-coat with a box when you can do it right the first time ?


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

mudslingr said:


> And yes I'm talking hand work. I do both hand and machine but nothing beats a good hand job ! Why re-coat with a box when you can do it right the first time ?


If they're run properly, it still takes less time, even if you run a 7, 10, and 12. You still have to work your mud more than 2 passes by hand to get rid of fish-eyes, and still I'm skeptical on how necessary it is to get rid of all of them because how much are you caving your bead in order to do that?

Minimizing fish-eye is satisfactory considering the time taken to do so (with the exception of coating over paint). Trying to eliminate them completely on first coat, however, is time-wasting and unnecessary.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

mudslingr said:


> I'm sensing some sarcasm here ! I only get fish eyes over painted surfaces. I like to mix the box of mud ( The Best Mud or Stynko  ) for a good minute with NO water for first coat on my bead and from 10' away you would think it was a finish coat. My first coat on butts is the same mud and no fish eyes. It's all in how you apply it. I find if you always finish trowel in the opposite direction of applying it, you will eliminate the fish eyes.
> 
> And yes I'm talking hand work. I do both hand and machine but nothing beats a good hand job ! Why re-coat with a box when you can do it right the first time ?


Yes you are right, I think there was a bit more than just a little sarcasm in that post.

I tape with a bazooka, bed with a 8" (one pass) and skim with a 10" (one pass). I have ZERO problem with pock's or fish eyes, cause I add MEGA water to my cheap-arse mud. 

However when I hand finish, I HAVE to "back-down" the mud, in other words, after I run it on the wall I HAVE to run it back the other way to git it level and even then I can wipe the edges and then wipe the middle,,, Oh my bad, I guess I'm running it 5 times by hand rather than ONE time with machines and cheap arse mud watered down,,,, my bad.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

D's said:


> Well Capt, I'll have to try the 3.5 first before the 2.5. I always found that a first pass with a 2.5 would sometimes sink into a bevel leaving it underfilled. Got an Apla setup now so the extra loading on the 3.5 shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> D'S


 D's, thats why I went to the 3 1/2 for the first coat, It will ride the bevel better than any other, especially on the top wall board (at the ceiling) BUT you have to have the mudrunner to put the amount of mud out that it takes. Anyone that says a bazooka will give you that kind of mud,,, well,,, took some really good drugs back in the sixties.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You may have a point,,, I have only used
> 1)usg, green lid (all four types) blue lid,purple lid,white lid
> 2)pro-form, black lid, red lid,blue lid, burgandy lid
> 3)ruco
> ...


 Sorry guys, after I made this post, I got to thinking,, and there are alot more types of mud that I have used,,, but I won't bother you with them at this time.


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