# oddjobs?



## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Yesterday I got my first taste of laminate, as in remodeling and relaminating a cash wrap. 

It turned out pretty good, had to reattach the outside corners, the plans specced double sided tape but it looked like chit. Ended up with screws and buttons over the holes.

(Pics linked due to me not being able to resize)
http://puu.sh/apLvx/5da38fc496.jpg
http://puu.sh/apLso/b7c675ab31.jpg

If anyone has any advice on how to do this stuff more efficiently id love to be clued in on it. Ive got 20 doors to relaminate coming up. I cut the laminate roughly to size with shears, trim to fit with router/laminate cutter. 

Anyways im curious as to what random oddjobs you guys get yourselves into? Anything to break the monotony


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Turned out very nice.


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## Rokitman (Jul 24, 2013)

Hey nodnard,
Looks like a very nice job from the pics. Did you say it called for double-faced tape? NEVER on laminate. Always use a good laminate adhesive.
Roll it on both surfaces with a sponge roller. Allow it to dry and apply a second coat. The trick with getting laminate to stick permanently is to apply the laminate when the adhesive is tacky, but not wet. I apply the narrow edge bands first, then any vertical panels followed by the top panels last. Trim each piece with the router before moving on to the next. You can use a heavy roller or rubber mallet to adhere the laminate. Use slicker boards under large pieces to assist in the alignment then work from one end moving slowing to the other assuring 100% adhesion. Use a file or even a pad sander to smooth all the edges. Mineral spirits will remove any squeeze out.

Good luck,
- Dean -


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Rokitman said:


> Hey nodnard,
> Looks like a very nice job from the pics. Did you say it called for double-faced tape? NEVER on laminate. Always use a good laminate adhesive.
> Roll it on both surfaces with a sponge roller. Allow it to dry and apply a second coat. The trick with getting laminate to stick permanently is to apply the laminate when the adhesive is tacky, but not wet. I apply the narrow edge bands first, then any vertical panels followed by the top panels last. Trim each piece with the router before moving on to the next. You can use a heavy roller or rubber mallet to adhere the laminate. Use slicker boards under large pieces to assist in the alignment then work from one end moving slowing to the other assuring 100% adhesion. Use a file or even a pad sander to smooth all the edges. Mineral spirits will remove any squeeze out.
> 
> ...


I used a J roller to roll it on, what do you mean slicker boards? Masonite? I've heard of people using dowel rods underneath the sheet to position it before letting the glue touch fully. Wish I had thought of that before hand.

As for the tape, YES it called for it and it looked awful, granted it was some of the toughest double sided tape Ive encountered it still looked bad. The outside corners were not perfect 90's more like ~100 degrees. We used double contact cement on the rest of it as you described. 

After taking off the tape (mineral spirits came in handy there too) and applying the cement the corners still flared out a little. So we countersunk screws and the super found some laminate buttons to fit over the holes. All in all it turned out pretty well, but seemed awfully tedius and labor intensive in its own way. Appreciate the input and tips, welcome to drywall talk. Hope to see you around.


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## Rokitman (Jul 24, 2013)

The term slicker is usually reserved for thin boards you place between layers of lumber that need to be air dried. But it works exactly the same way your dowels did. In fact, a dowel rod is actually a better choice in this application. It gives you plenty of height with a minimum surface area touching the adhesive. So kudos on that.

I'm not sure why your corners still flared out. Unless you weren't able to remove all the DF tape or the corners of the framing were out of square. But good deal finding those buttons. Glad it worked out for you.

BTW, those doors. I hope they are not panel doors! And to answer your original question, I do quite a bit of odd jobs. I run my own handyman business ~ Dean Can Do It ~ on FaceBook. And I'm currently working on two home remodel projects. Framing and drywall, electrical, plumbing, ceramic tile and just about anything else that comes up. These are keeping me busy most of the summer.

- Dean -


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Rokitman said:


> The term slicker is usually reserved for thin boards you place between layers of lumber that need to be air dried. But it works exactly the same way your dowels did. In fact, a dowel rod is actually a better choice in this application. It gives you plenty of height with a minimum surface area touching the adhesive. So kudos on that.
> 
> I'm not sure why your corners still flared out. Unless you weren't able to remove all the DF tape or the corners of the framing were out of square. But good deal finding those buttons. Glad it worked out for you.
> 
> ...


Dowell rods werent my idea :whistling2: actually picked that up from a call to my dad (no shame!) I look for all the help I can get! And no panel doors just plain jane ones. Should be gravy after the cash wrap.

Doing store fixtures today and did some yesterday for extra money. Will post pics later.


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

As promised.

http://puu.sh/aDooj/de759e43fe.jpg shelf/display system anchored by 1/2" stainless rods.
http://puu.sh/aDph7/dc3a3cece2.jpg fitting room partitions.
http://puu.sh/aDpEf/7126284abb.jpg bookshelf type displays.

Did the laminate toe kicks on the cash wrap. Was formica with a decorative brushed stainless look. Didnt take a picture since it was only 4"x~8' down the face.

Ended up doing the fixtures on time and material since the original contractor dropped the ball and fell way behind. Did all the framing and rock too so this is just gravy. Might try and start bidding store fixtures as side work but not entirely sure how to go about it.


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## Rokitman (Jul 24, 2013)

Very nice job sir. That's a whole bunch of laminate!

Bidding work is a sticky subject. There is no tried and true method for doing this. And no craftsman worth his salt will be able to give you a definitive answer. It depends on very many factors and ultimately, YOU have to decide what a job is worth and what to charge.

That being said, there are several things you'll have to consider before determining your fees. Working by the hour and material costs are pretty much a predetermined amount. So I won't go into that.

When I bid a job, I take many things into consideration.

* How much do I need to make in a single day?
* How difficult is the work to be done?
* Are there any special tools or particular skills required to do the job?
* What is the travel time and wear and tear on my vehicle and tools?
* What have I charged for similar jobs in the past?
* What is the typical going rate for work of this nature in this area?
* Is there a rate I charge for this work based on square foot, lineal foot, etc.?
* Am I working for family or friends ~ special rate?

In my particular case I do a lot of drywall, framing, floor tile, etc. Things that can be charged by the sq. foot, lineal foot or piece. And this rate is based on how much I think I can get done in a single day. If I cannot make at least $25. per hour or $200. in an 8 hour period, it's not worth my time. And this is a VERY reasonable rate in my area ~ Northern Kentucky. And I rarely have a client complain about my rates. I could probably charge a bit more, but as long as I feel it's worth my time, I don't get greedy.

Materials. I always tell my clients that they are responsible for choosing and purchasing materials. I do not include this in the bid. If you do, now you are responsible for shopping around and finding the best price. Another reason I do not do this is because many materials are chosen based on the clients personal preference. Baseboard, panelling, floor tile. These are all things that a client will have to decide on themselves. I do however offer them several options on paying for and receiving these goods.

Have your client shop for ~ and pay for ~materials at his favorite building supply center. I prefer Lowe's myself. And have them load it on a cart for delivery of pickup. If I'm able to load it in my vehicle, I'll sometimes offer to delivery it myself. If it's a large amount, I'll suggest they have it delivered for their small fee. 

If you can get your clients to agree to pay by the hour, this is a good option for someone starting out that is not skilled in bidding. But know that the mindset of most clients who pay by the hour is that their craftsmen will drag their feet to make more money. So if you do work by the hour, make sure you work in a manner that doesn't allow your client to think that. Work hard and everyone will be happy.

Most clients like to know exactly what they will be paying over a period of time or for a particular job. So if this is something you can offer them, by all means do. But make it perfectly clear that the fee you are charging is based on everything going according to plan ~ which is rarely the case. And any unusual circumstances, weird building anomalies or any drastic changes in the original work or anticipated materials will have to be reevaluated and charged accordingly. Also, try to steer away from offering a definite time or date that the job will be completed ~ unless you are absolutely certain. Offering an estimated time is perfectly acceptable and appreciated as long as you stipulate that it is only an estimate and could change at any time based on any changing situation.

Getting paid. Depending on the amount of the bid and the time it will take, I always ask for a portion up front before work begins. Perhaps a third or a half. Then another payment midway through the job and the remainder at it's completion. That way I always have a steady flow of cash in case I need to pick up additional materials. Of course, this cost will have to be passed on to the client. I NEVER use my own money for costs involved with the work.

I hope this has been helpful to you. Sorry it's so long. But I have asked this exact same question on MANY forums and blogs and most craftsmen are very reluctant to offer any useful answers. As if you are taking money out of their pockets. This is of course, not the case. There is plenty of work AND money out there for all of us to make a buck.

Good luck to you,
- Dean -


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## nodnarb (Apr 25, 2014)

Rokitman said:


> Very nice job sir. That's a whole bunch of laminate!
> 
> Bidding work is a sticky subject. There is no tried and true method for doing this. And no craftsman worth his salt will be able to give you a definitive answer. It depends on very many factors and ultimately, YOU have to decide what a job is worth and what to charge.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the input, but there was a slight misunderstanding. I have no trouble bidding most jobs, however I am new to the field of laminate and installing store fixtures (basically all millwork) and simply dont know what to charge! All the store fixtures are provided by the store due to them being custom and I have been installing them as side work for a company that helps keep me busy. I heard the GC mention how much the whole install cost (about $10,500) and knew it took two mechanics and a helper 3 days to get it done. I dont know what other sort of overhead there is involved but to me that sounds like something I want in on.

My current plan of attack is get all the experience I can with this company doing store fixtures and to keep my ears open on the job. The work was climate controlled, clean and far less strenuous then what I typically do. That coupled with the fact that no two system are alike and im pretty well in love.

I really do appreciate the well thought out answer though, im just outside of my particular wheelhouse here.


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## Rokitman (Jul 24, 2013)

Hey nodnard,

Sorry if I gave you too much information up there. The fact that you know what the GC charged in the past and how many workers it took to get it done is a very good starting point. But it really doesn't matter what kind of work you're doing, the technique for bidding is pretty much the same. 

All the other information aside, the list above should be a bare minimum of what to consider when trying to make a living in this business. Of course that list may change according to the type of work you're performing.

Good luck,
- Dean -


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