# Durabond and 1 coat veneer



## Drywaller (Jun 15, 2008)

I have a customer who want a 1 coat veneer plaster job on a few rooms in his house.He will be hanging blue board.
I have not done any plastering before but have skim coated many jobs with durabond and mud,My friend was telling me that I can use durabond on the seams and then do my 1 coat veneer over that,He also says that he uses paper tape in the corners.Will this be acceptable by any of you guys who plaster?
The customer does not want a smooth finish ,he wants it a little rough looking which will work in my favor as I havn't done much smooth plastering.
I appreciate any help I can get.


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

Drywaller said:


> I have a customer who want a 1 coat veneer plaster job on a few rooms in his house.He will be hanging blue board.
> I have not done any plastering before but have skim coated many jobs with durabond and mud,My friend was telling me that I can use durabond on the seams and then do my 1 coat veneer over that,He also says that he uses paper tape in the corners.Will this be acceptable by any of you guys who plaster?
> The customer does not want a smooth finish ,he wants it a little rough looking which will work in my favor as I havn't done much smooth plastering.
> I appreciate any help I can get.


 My approach to one coat plaster is this. Paper tape all seams and inside corners with durobond. After durobond is set coat all seams with durobond, then do your one coat plaster. Make sure you use a plaster that is suitable for a one coat system(diamond veneer or x-calibur). If you have outside corners you may want to coat them with durobond as well. Personally I'm not a big fan of the one coat systems,I think you get a much better job doing a two coat system.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

paplaster said:


> My approach to one coat plaster is this. Paper tape all seams and inside corners with durobond. After durobond is set coat all seams with durobond, then do your one coat plaster. Make sure you use a plaster that is suitable for a one coat system(diamond veneer or x-calibur). If you have outside corners you may want to coat them with durobond as well. Personally I'm not a big fan of the one coat systems,I think you get a much better job doing a two coat system.


do you do the double up when using the veneer. DSjohn should be explaining this, But he's probably in a bar right now, crying into his beer, b/c his Boston Bruins are getting their a$$es kicked by the little girly team, the Montreal Canadiens


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> do you do the double up when using the veneer. DSjohn should be explaining this, But he's probably in a bar right now, crying into his beer, b/c his Boston Bruins are getting their a$$es kicked by the little girly team, the Montreal Canadiens


 By double up you mean skim out an area then go right back over it with another coat using the same material,yes. I'm a flyers fan myself hope they can fend off the sabers.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes, and I don't want to get talking out of my league either , I was the labourer when i did the stuff.:whistling2:

But I have done it

Me not like Philly's , go sabres:whistling2:


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Yes, and I don't want to get talking out of my league either , I was the labourer when i did the stuff.:whistling2:
> 
> But I have done it
> 
> Me not like Philly's , go sabres:whistling2:


 Your not talking out of your league, many different terms for the same for the same processes. Go Flyers.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> do you do the double up when using the veneer. DSjohn should be explaining this, But he's probably in a bar right now, crying into his beer, b/c his Boston Bruins are getting their a$$es kicked by the little girly team, the Montreal Canadiens


:thumbup:I always did the same as Paplaster quoted,until recently- worked with a 35 year plaster veteran from Mass that just uses fiberglass for joints and angles. Coat flats ,butts with mix your using then apply over and double back finish out with blister brush and trowel. I always coat the bead once with durabond-- if this is your 1st attempt--paper tape all one coat durabond then plaster.put it on a little heavier than a skim and buy a blister brush[felt] let us know how it comes out. Wherever you buy your plaster ask for some retarder-you should use it being a rookie!!!![cream of tartar does the same thing]


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## Drywaller (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it. 
I was going to tape all seams ,bead and screws with brown bag durabond,then fill seams with bond and apply my veneer on after that,As I will be doing it alone and not sure about timing to double back will plaster.
Another parts of the house they used Unikal and I was going to use the same.
I will buy the retarder for sure.
Thanks again


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

DSJOHN said:


> :thumbup:I always did the same as Paplaster quoted,until recently- worked with a 35 year plaster veteran from Mass that just uses fiberglass for joints and angles. Coat flats ,butts with mix your using then apply over and double back finish out with blister brush and trowel. I always coat the bead once with durabond-- if this is your 1st attempt--paper tape all one coat durabond then plaster.put it on a little heavier than a skim and buy a blister brush[felt] let us know how it comes out. Wherever you buy your plaster ask for some retarder-you should use it being a rookie!!!![cream of tartar does the same thing]


Started out using mesh tape on all joints and angles, had to many call backs for cracks, especially in the angles. Switched to durobond and paper tape. Now I have very few call backs. Made the switch about four or five years ago.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

paplaster said:


> Started out using mesh tape on all joints and angles, had to many call backs for cracks, especially in the angles. Switched to durobond and paper tape. Now I have very few call backs. Made the switch about four or five years ago.


you beat me to my post
The guy I was doing it with did the mesh system. then one day on a handy man tv show, I seen them doing the durabond method,,,,, by hand?? I thought pull out the polish pencil and applicators and that would ramp up the production. But when I suggested this to him, he gave me this look, and said this is plaster not taping.

Then sure enough the cracking started, we called in the veneer rep, he started saying the temperature had to be a constant 76 degrees etc...and blah,blah,blah. But it was too late, the word got out and no builders wanted to try it no more (short version of the story).

So you guys are using the durabond method with good results then???


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> you beat me to my post
> The guy I was doing it with did the mesh system. then one day on a handy man tv show, I seen them doing the durabond method,,,,, by hand?? I thought pull out the polish pencil and applicators and that would ramp up the production. But when I suggested this to him, he gave me this look, and said this is plaster not taping.
> 
> Then sure enough the cracking started, we called in the veneer rep, he started saying the temperature had to be a constant 76 degrees etc...and blah,blah,blah. But it was too late, the word got out and no builders wanted to try it no more (short version of the story).
> ...


I have very good results with the durobond method. Temp. is a factor. I like the temp. to be consistant throughout the job one week prior to plastering and for a least one week after. Temp should be between 55 and 70 degrees.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

paplaster said:


> I have very good results with the durobond method. Temp. is a factor. I like the temp. to be consistant throughout the job one week prior to plastering and for a least one week after. Temp should be between 55 and 70 degrees.


How true,you need to drive this point into the builders head,I agree that the durabond method is your best bet,served me well with no callbacks-just letting some know the method in Mass seems to be different--you,re better off being safe with durabond. Drywaller--- you have about 45 minutes to get your mix on[about 60 if you use retarder] and there is no down time you need to blister brush and finish trowel immediately [finger test] Paplaster or I will give you advice ,keep us informed:yes:


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

two coat system is always better. Base coat then Diamond or lime and gauge. We just completed a set of steel spiral stairs with lath and plaster, scratch and brown with structolite and portland, then slacked lime overnight and did a traditional mix.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

d-rock said:


> two coat system is always better. Base coat then Diamond or lime and gauge. We just completed a set of steel spiral stairs with lath and plaster, scratch and brown with structolite and portland, then slacked lime overnight and did a traditional mix.


:thumbup:Luv it when we can do a 2 coat--good money:thumbsup:Curved walls and domes are always fun


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

it was a profitable job. Best part is when you stand under it, it looks and feels as if you're in a huge curl. I'll try to post pics.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

DSJOHN said:


> :thumbup:I always did the same as Paplaster quoted,until recently- worked with a 35 year plaster veteran from Mass that just uses fiberglass for joints and angles. Coat flats ,butts with mix your using then apply over and double back finish out with blister brush and trowel. I always coat the bead once with durabond-- if this is your 1st attempt--paper tape all one coat durabond then plaster.put it on a little heavier than a skim and buy a blister brush[felt] let us know how it comes out. Wherever you buy your plaster ask for some retarder-you should use it being a rookie!!!![cream of tartar does the same thing]


That's the way we did it. It is a sweet skill to master. You can do some real magic sometimes.

:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I've got one of these coming up next week(Diamond coat), and I may have a few questions for you plasterers...

First questions, with a little prep talk:

The plan is to glass tape the flats and fill with set mud (adhesive added to help protect against cracks). Now, if I go ahead and string the angles with taping mud and paper tape, will I need to use plaster bond on the angles? We are using blue board (the last sheets the supply house had in stock, we don't do much plaster here), and I'm not sure about the adhesion of the plaster to regular mud. 

The general information I've gathered suggests that the Diamond has a 45 minute set time, is that when it _starts _to set, or is that when it's actually hard? I don't want to mix too much, seeing as how we're only going to be a two man crew, and the homeowner/contractor has some trowel experience, but not tons. 

Also, how well does the material overlap in different batches? Is there failure when different set times interact on the wall? Should I plan on only going after a wall if I have enough material to finish it in one pass? If so, how does this work in the angles? I'm familiar with the concept of double back when it goes off, that's similar to the skims I've done with set mud and clay plaster. Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated.....thanks in advance fellas


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Slim.just make sure the board is blue-not brown--cause then your,e screwed.Plaster board will also suck the moisture out of your mud real fast-dont plan on re-using-I gather you are meshtape flats/dont recommend on butts and you said papertaping angles.After you have it prepped for plaster,you have approximately 45 min working time,than you need to blister brush and finish trowel,about 15 more min. Doubling back means using same batch and going right over what you just applied,you will realize how much this helps when you are a rookie,old timers just put one coat on a bit heavier and brush and trowel out/dont try this .You can overlap your mix-just do it the same day,its easier,and have a blister brush/bottle water[spray type] to help finish trowel. Good luck


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks John, I appreciate the input. You don't recommend mesh for the butts? Even with a good coat over top with added adhesive? Do you use paper tape then? My mesh method hasn't produced cracks yet, but it's never had plaster on top either So I don't need to plaster bond the paper tape with regular mud then? That would be sweet...my client is a builder, but he's also a friend, and I'd like to keep labor/material cost down for him.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Okay, so the plaster actually started flying today. 

Day 1:

We ended up ultra-filling (with super-bond) all the joints (mesh on flats &butts, paper applied with 90 minute with super-bond added), and using vario on the screws. Solid coat of ultra-fill on ceilings, making the ceiling the final texture. The lids got painted over the weekend.

Day 2 (today):

Masked ceiling line, and started mixing the tinted plaster. Six colors in all, we got three on today....white, orange, and green. The plaster won't be painted, but will be sealed...maybe with a buffed wax. 

First impressions- I love the way the material finishes out, so f*&%ing smooth. We're just using a spray bottle for burnishing, don't care for that too much. Angles are a bit of a pain in the ass when you have to finish both sides at once...I'll admit that's giving me a little bit of trouble. On my end, doubling back was damn near right on, but I had to also hit my friends work....he does a pretty good job but his experience is limited so the fixing was a little more intense. We experienced a little bit of bubbling in some areas, but the bumps scraped off pretty easy when it had kicked pretty hard.

Tomorrow we do some tie-in colors to the already finished walls (one will be a deep rich red), and really focus on the show-piece walls in the large kitchen. Two colors tomorrow, maybe three if we can get the blue tint for the bedroom (the initial color looked like a battleship gray, and didn't have much life to it.)

I like working with the diamond coat, but it definitely takes some getting used to....burnishing seems to be the really time consuming part, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm being inefficient, but for my first plaster gig, I'm enjoying myself......


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Day 3: Job is done. Finally started grasping the concept of making it damn near perfect on the double back, and burnishing when leather hard to avoid needing water.

The whole color tinting thing is kind of a crap shoot, the colors lighten tremendously when dry, perhaps when sealed the color will return.

Overall, the process kicks a$$, and now I'm thinking I don't care so much for drywall mud with its long dry times and sanding....plus, tinted plaster looks so good when it's done. I've told my friend I'd be willing to come over and wax and buff an accent wall for free just so I can try it out and see what it looks like, as well as add it to my repertoire. I give diamond coat a big :thumbup:....I mean really, smooth-wall in a day, with no sanding? I change my mind....I give it :thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

and you didn't even share one photograph of the whole process :furious:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> and you didn't even share one photograph of the whole process :furious:


I will, as soon as he's finished with cabinets, doors etc. I'm going to bring the real camera over and do some architectural interior shots....this is one for the portfolio for sure.


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Day 3: Job is done. Finally started grasping the concept of making it damn near perfect on the double back, and burnishing when leather hard to avoid needing water.
> 
> The whole color tinting thing is kind of a crap shoot, the colors lighten tremendously when dry, perhaps when sealed the color will return.
> 
> Overall, the process kicks a$$, and now I'm thinking I don't care so much for drywall mud with its long dry times and sanding....plus, tinted plaster looks so good when it's done. I've told my friend I'd be willing to come over and wax and buff an accent wall for free just so I can try it out and see what it looks like, as well as add it to my repertoire. I give diamond coat a big :thumbup:....I mean really, smooth-wall in a day, with no sanding? I change my mind....I give it :thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup:


 Been doing it for years--tell guys this all the time- small trick for your inside angles, you need the small inside corner tool ,use it when finally applied all plaster in mix,then again while burning[try a blister brush during this] and just about the time the mix is hard use a small cup of water and 2 1/2 " angled paint brush and brush your angles with it,, its the cats a$$:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

DSJOHN said:


> Been doing it for years--tell guys this all the time- small trick for your inside angles, you need the small inside corner tool ,use it when finally applied all plaster in mix,then again while burning[try a blister brush during this] and just about the time the mix is hard use a small cup of water and 2 1/2 " angled paint brush and brush your angles with it,, its the cats a$$:thumbsup:


I was looking at a smaller angle tool, the big one is a bit too much....thanks for the tips!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Okay, so I'm back on this job again with a new set of circumstances.

About six sheets of blue board, 4 sheets of regular board, and about 1000 ft. of painted surface. We have one gallon of plaster weld, and I'm looking for an alternative for the painted walls. The MSDS sheets for plaster weld pretty much state that it's a PVA with a couple of tiny additives. Is it possible to substitute elmer's glue for plaster weld? My town refuses to carry plaster products and the lead time on getting them here isn't going to work for this project. We've got a sh!t-pile of diamond coat on hand but dropped the ball on surface prep (if there are no substitutes for plaster weld, we're going to plaster over a solid coat of ultra-fill.)


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Slim, mix up some dura90 so you can roll it on the walls with a 1/2 nap roller instead of the weld, I repair plenty of areas on older homes where the renovation runs into new/old then we diamond coat the whole area. Rough the painted area up [do u own a PC sander?] then roll heavy coat on and make sure its got texture so the diamond can key into it!!! Good luck


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## paplaster (Feb 21, 2011)

DSJOHN said:


> Slim, mix up some dura90 so you can roll it on the walls with a 1/2 nap roller instead of the weld, I repair plenty of areas on older homes where the renovation runs into new/old then we diamond coat the whole area. Rough the painted area up [do u own a PC sander?] then roll heavy coat on and make sure its got texture so the diamond can key into it!!! Good luck


Never tried rolling the durobond on. I trowel the durobond on then run a concrete brush through it to make a key for the plaster. I'll try the roller method. The project I'm on now I'm skimming textured walls smooth with durobond as the basecoat and Kal-Kote smooth plaster as the finish. Rolling the durobond on may speed the process up. I agree with DSJohn on roughing up the paint, especially if it has a sheen to it. May be a good idea to prime the surface with a shellac based primer before you start with the durobond.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Great answers fellas, and much appreciated. Rolling on the hot-mud would be gobs faster than troweling on the Ultra-fill or hot-mud. The good thing about the Ultra-fill is that it has built-in tooth with the aggregate and fiberglass fibers. We planned on running a pole sander over the walls (no PC here, although both of us own 6" Festool sanders). Tuesday is mud-slingin' day....I'll let you know how things work out.........and thanks again!:thumbsup:

(by the way, the new smilies suck)


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

rhardman said:


> That's the way we did it. It is a sweet skill to master. You can do some real magic sometimes.
> 
> :thumbsup:


When passion and skill come together, Masterpieces are born.:yes:


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