# Tracing



## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi guys i was just wondering how much o u guys trace with a scraper or float(TROWEL) after boxing?:confused1: Think thats what its called
There r some double box,thinks thats 2buck but cant remaember!!!!:sneaky2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Here you go Vanman

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/tracing-behind-boxes-1740/


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## smisner50s (Jan 6, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> Hi guys i was just wondering how much o u guys trace with a scraper or float(TROWEL) after boxing?:confused1: Think thats what its called
> There r some double box,thinks thats 2buck but cant remaember!!!!:sneaky2:


 i do with a knife ...the beginning and end of the runs to get that extra bit of mud all the way into the corners..sometimes ill do 2bucks method all dedends on the situation....no to jobs are ever the same


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

in my very limited exprience i prefer the two box method. the first couple jobs i had to trace just because i was still learning them.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

VANMAN said:


> Hi guys i was just wondering how much o u guys trace with a scraper or float(TROWEL) after boxing?:confused1: Think thats what its called
> There r some double box,thinks thats 2buck but cant remaember!!!!:sneaky2:


We call it 'wiping down'.

I've done it mostly behind guys who want it done that way, and it's their job, so I've gone with it. Myself, unless I'm hand coating, I double box most runs, except for maybe very short ones.


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## Al Taper (Dec 16, 2007)

I tryed to double box.. Dont like it. I just wipe it down with a bigger knife.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

You guys need to learn to set your boxes if you have to wipe out behind them there not set properly .


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

sdrdrywall said:


> You guys need to learn to set your boxes if you have to wipe out behind them there not set properly .


Part of the theory, is that the mud is going to do it's most shrinking when 1st applied to the wall. Drywall is designed to absorb some of the moisture from the mud. So , depending on the air environment and so forth. The 1st pass you did is going to look good, but it's going to shrink (become hollow). and as it dries, it exposes the high and low shoulders. (the un-level joints)

So, when you run your second pass, it's going to fill back in where it's already gone hollow, and it allows you to address the shoulders better. so the next time when the joints are dry, and you do your final pass. what ever box your using will now skim coat tight, and not fill.

this is where I confuse people but, think when you coat over painted walls, the mud bubbles a lot, and takes longer to dry, because it is only drying from one side. Drywall allows the mud to dry from 2 sides. (drywall side and air side) so , my GUESS here is the mud does 75% shrinking within the 1st 15 minutes or so,then dries (depending on air humidity).

So it's not about the setting of your boxes, it's more about the materials you use. but if someone feels compelled to chase behind boxes with a knife. (really stupid) then I would suggest adjusting your boxes.

now if they made better materials :whistling2:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Good points 2buck but i havent been able to get that to happen to good yet, But if i make one pass with the box on a slightly open setting so i get a slight crown, Wait 5mins, Then back wipe with my floor scraper with a 12inch knife blade in it then its great, Level, smooth, And like your reason for using a flusher instead of angle head, No poks or scratches at all, One pass with box then one pass with knife is the same effort as two passes with box. Its easy and works, And you can add fill if you need to, This method makes more sence on our walls here in nz due to the revels, We have to knife em anyway, Thanks Kiwiman.

I tryed fibafuse tape, wipe no backfill, then double run the boxes like you once, OMG it pin holed and poked to hell, Thats were paper would be better, The open weave of the fuse poked it out,


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> Part of the theory, is that the mud is going to do it's most shrinking when 1st applied to the wall. Drywall is designed to absorb some of the moisture from the mud. So , depending on the air environment and so forth. The 1st pass you did is going to look good, but it's going to shrink (become hollow). and as it dries, it exposes the high and low shoulders. (the un-level joints)
> 
> So, when you run your second pass, it's going to fill back in where it's already gone hollow, and it allows you to address the shoulders better. so the next time when the joints are dry, and you do your final pass. what ever box your using will now skim coat tight, and not fill.


This has been my experience as well, using your particular 2 boxing style. Because the final boxing is usually so tight, one problem I do run into with the final coat is sometimes getting a buildup of dust in the mud that's on the underside of the box, and it can cause the mud to not stick in some spots, when some of that buildup transfers itself to the wall. So far, I've been cleaning the box underside a little more regularly with a knife, and wiping it usually into my pan, not back into the box. I've been wondering if I should do something like maybe quickly broom the flats down before final boxing, to see if/how it might help.


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

cazna said:


> Good points 2buck but i havent been able to get that to happen to good yet, But if i make one pass with the box on a slightly open setting so i get a slight crown, Wait 5mins, Then back wipe with my floor scraper with a 12inch knife blade in it then its great, Level, smooth, And like your reason for using a flusher instead of angle head, No poks or scratches at all, One pass with box then one pass with knife is the same effort as two passes with box. Its easy and works, And you can add fill if you need to, This method makes more sence on our walls here in nz due to the revels, We have to knife em anyway, Thanks Kiwiman.
> 
> I tryed fibafuse tape, wipe no backfill, then double run the boxes like you once, OMG it pin holed and poked to hell, Thats were paper would be better, The open weave of the fuse poked it out,


Wet but set basecoat will cause blowback with paper, so might not be the 'fuse. Running a joint in both directions will often overcome it, with whatever delay the blowback on the first run requires, but nothing beats dry a tapecoat for double boxing. By double boxing I mean a 7" and a 10", not just 2 passes with the 7".


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

enough with this "Tracing" bs...makes the guys that run tools look bad. Dial in your boxes boys or mud mix. Like stated before,going back over work {other direction}will take care of craters and also fill joint nice but I dont feel you need to box whole job and then go back and do again...total waste of time unless you didnt do right 1rst time. Slight ooverfil 1rst round will dry flat or very close to.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

chris said:


> enough with this "Tracing" bs...makes the guys that run tools look bad. Dial in your boxes boys or mud mix. Like stated before,going back over work {other direction}will take care of craters and also fill joint nice but I dont feel you need to box whole job and then go back and do again...total waste of time unless you didnt do right 1rst time. Slight ooverfil 1rst round will dry flat or very close to.


 Tracing BS!!!!!!!! Get over urself MASTER B*TTER oh i mean TAPER:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Tracing or not tracing,, It's still faster than the way I do It.:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

chris said:


> enough with this "Tracing" bs...makes the guys that run tools look bad. Dial in your boxes boys or mud mix. Like stated before,going back over work {other direction}will take care of craters and also fill joint nice but I dont feel you need to box whole job and then go back and do again...total waste of time unless you didnt do right 1rst time. Slight ooverfil 1rst round will dry flat or very close to.


I'm not sure what your steps are that you're suggesting, chris. Is it box (once) without 'tracing' after, let it dry, then box again (once) in the opposite direction?

Or box once, then box again right away in other direction, and call that finish coated?


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

JustMe said:


> I'm not sure what your steps are that you're suggesting, chris.
> 
> Or box once, then box again right away in other direction, and call that finish coated?


yes there is a way I do that may be hard to understand,example walk up to wall/room ,box out bout 2 or 3' start again go all the way,repeat on next wall leaving bout 2 or 3' left unboxed on previous wall . This is all done one direction at 1rst,once around room do same other way ,boxing that 2 or 3' twice then all the way down to where you previously boxed twice already....wallah:thumbup: boxed twice at once if you know what I mean. Done with 8" Blueline.That is how we do 1rst coat. Second coat rarely gets boxed twice,builds edges,we will touchup by hand after that. Works for us,not saying other way dont work just feel may be extra work,dont deal with much half inch board or standups usually where yoou see alot of shoulders


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> Tracing or not tracing,, It's still faster than the way I do It.:yes:


:thumbup:It's nice getting it done right the first time isn't it ? :yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> Tracing BS!!!!!!!! Get over urself MASTER B*TTER oh i mean TAPER:whistling2:


dont worry u will figure it out some day,can I recommend hooked on phonics


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> Part of the theory, is that the mud is going to do it's most shrinking when 1st applied to the wall. Drywall is designed to absorb some of the moisture from the mud. So , depending on the air environment and so forth. The 1st pass you did is going to look good, but it's going to shrink (become hollow). and as it dries, it exposes the high and low shoulders. (the un-level joints)
> 
> So, when you run your second pass, it's going to fill back in where it's already gone hollow, and it allows you to address the shoulders better. so the next time when the joints are dry, and you do your final pass. what ever box your using will now skim coat tight, and not fill.
> 
> ...


Excellent summary.

In the case with Synko, though, about 75% of the shrinkage happens about 2-3 weeks after you leave the job.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

chris said:


> dont worry u will figure it out some day,can I recommend hooked on phonics


 Your posts are actually pretty hard to read.


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

VANMAN said:


> Tracing BS!!!!!!!! Get over urself MASTER B*TTER oh i mean TAPER:whistling2:


 What he says is true, though. You have good tools that are made to do the work. If they're set properly, you won't need to waste time and energy tracing.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

chris said:


> Works for us,not saying other way dont work just feel may be extra work,dont deal with much half inch board or standups usually where yoou see alot of shoulders


Except for how you come out of the corners with doubling up right away, the way you do it reads a fair amount like how I used to do it. There may be a bit more work initially with 2buck's style, but I think it pays for itself after with things like less sanding, if you have to build up the sides so the bevels will dry flatter; fewer defects to sand out and touch up; less hand work needed after. Only way to maybe find out if it would do the same for you, though, would be to try it.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Btw, chris: If it does take you a bit of time to get back to a flat to re-box it a 2nd time - such as if you're in a very large room - then you might be getting close to 2buck's style. At least in the larger rooms. Just a thought.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Btw, chris: If it does take you a bit of time to get back to a flat to re-box it a 2nd time - such as if you're in a very large room - then you might be getting close to 2buck's style. At least in the larger rooms. Just a thought.


Just adding to your post here

The other main point is your dropping a box, I came from the days when they where saying to go 7,10,12 with the boxes. Those that are running a 3 box system, may find this system more of a interest to them.your dropping a day of flats and a rough sand off your list. if I were to be critical, or say if I had to work with a taper that wants to run a 3 box system, we would be arguing:yes:It's way faster than the 3 box method. The flats are the easiest thing to do (to pro's) but people always check them 1st, they like to run their hands over them etc....... so make them perfect.

Also, if the ceilings have some type of spray/texture, there's no need for another coat (12 or 10). and we don't do it in garages etc (b/c "it's just a garage":whistling2 For some that are so negative on the method, just box out your house, and at the end, go back to one of your joints that you 1st ran, and box it again, then see what you think. you will find it looks sweet:yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

JustMe said:


> Except for how you come out of the corners with doubling up right away, the way you do it reads a fair amount like how I used to do it. There may be a bit more work initially with 2buck's style, but I think it pays for itself after with things like less sanding, if you have to build up the sides so the bevels will dry flatter; fewer defects to sand out and touch up; less hand work needed after. Only way to maybe find out if it would do the same for you, though, would be to try it.


what it sounds like to me ,correct if Im wrong (do I need ask) is 2bjr just flies thru it first round and 2bsr points out the flaws and jr goes back when he is done and cleans it up??? everyone has there method just offering mine .We only box 3 times on Level 5 .... we use 8" and 10":yesn most everyjob havnt used 12 for a while,it does take a bit longer our way but it is a itty bit


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> what it sounds like to me ,correct if Im wrong (do I need ask) is 2bjr just flies thru it first round and 2bsr points out the flaws and jr goes back when he is done and cleans it up??? everyone has there method just offering mine .We only box 3 times on Level 5 .... we use 8" and 10":yesn most everyjob havnt used 12 for a while,it does take a bit longer our way but it is a itty bit


yep. you got our system down, 2Bjr screws everything up, and I fix it:yes:

But now you have me wondering, why would you 12" for a level 5 finish, but not a level 4 . your standards must be different where you are or something. If I were to level 5 something (which is un-heard of around here) I would be dropping the 12". Since the 12" is a skim coat, why would you do that if your going to skim the whole wall(s) to obtain a level 5.

We do have a extremely fussy level 4 finish where I live, and our 2nd pass with the box only adds a itty bitty time too. It's not like your constantly running back to your pump to fill the box. it's like the box is skim coating the flats on the 2nd pass, not loading them heavy. So you travel a farther distance with it. So it's more of a game of walking. What's it going to add to your day, 15 minutes, a half a hour maybe. The finished results pay for it, :yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> yep. you got our system down, 2Bjr screws everything up, and I fix it:yes:
> 
> But now you have me wondering, why would you 12" for a level 5 finish, but not a level 4 . your standards must be different where you are or something. If I were to level 5 something (which is un-heard of around here) I would be dropping the 12". Since the 12" is a skim coat, why would you do that if your going to skim the whole wall(s) to obtain a level 5.
> 
> We do have a extremely fussy level 4 finish where I live, and our 2nd pass with the box only adds a itty bitty time too. It's not like your constantly running back to your pump to fill the box. it's like the box is skim coating the flats on the 2nd pass, not loading them heavy. So you travel a farther distance with it. So it's more of a game of walking. What's it going to add to your day, 15 minutes, a half a hour maybe. The finished results pay for it,


People that want smooth (level5 )will pay more.The level 4 payers ,they think they get it cheaper cause theres no tex then pick ur work to death. We dont skim entire wall for level 5 that method I will not tell:whistling2:as you stated above its more like walking,that holds true with our method also,all Im trying to achieve 2nd pass is craters and you would be surprised how it takes more mud 2nd pass . The mud shrinks in less than a minute quite a bit. We also do all butts at same time to save trips, and we tend to miss more stuff when you are wandering about:blink:Once again sorry to the electric tapers and tracers out there except to vanman he called me a name I didnt like,I liked what 2Buck called me


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

chris said:


> what it sounds like to me ,correct if Im wrong (do I need ask) is 2bjr just flies thru it first round and 2bsr points out the flaws and jr goes back when he is done and cleans it up???


Nope. 

Consider it this way: Because of the 'excessive' mud shrinkage in the 1st 10-20 mins after boxing, everywhere on the flats is 'flawed' (so no need for 2bsr to point out flaws to jr). The board has absorbed some of the mud's moisture everywhere, and so it's shrunk back everywhere. It's like you have one continuous low spot, or what will be one continuous low spot (unless you maybe put a fair amount of extra mud on - which would leave you with a fair amount of extra sanding of the 1st coat to get things flat enough. Not much time saving that way).

Waiting 10 mins. minimum before boxing again (I'm moving more to letting it sit for 20-30 minutes now) let's that initial shrinking settle down a lot, and then you add a bit more to make up for it, while at the same time filling in any poc marks, hitchhiker lines, feathering out high shoulders that the 1st boxing go round exposed, ...... .

First time I did 2buck boxing, our company's crew supervisor happened to stop by the jobsite before I had a chance to sand the 1st coat and do my finish coat (commercial job, with one horizontal flat, and t-bar ceiling). He said much of it looked good enough that it could go to priming out after sanding. He wasn't far wrong. I've gotten better at doing it since then.




chris said:


> what it sounds like to me ,correct if Im wrong (do I need ask)


Was starting to wonder if you might be starting to feel that way.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

JustMe said:


> Nope.
> 
> Consider it this way: Because of the 'excessive' mud shrinkage in the 1st 10-20 mins after boxing, everywhere on the flats is 'flawed' (so no need for 2bsr to point out flaws to jr). The board has absorbed some of the mud's moisture everywhere, and so it's shrunk back everywhere. It's like you have one continuous low spot, or what will be one continuous low spot (unless you maybe put a fair amount of extra mud on - which would leave you with a fair amount of extra sanding of the 1st coat to get things flat enough. Not much time saving that way).
> 
> ...


 Am aware of shrinkage and settings on box (that dont sound right) what I do to guage 1rst coat is..box flat,grab a 10" knife put edge straight on flat to see if hollow or flat or slightly over.when you pull knife away it should leave a lil mark on mud but clean knife should stay clean if u know what I mean


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> People that want smooth (level5 )will pay more.The level 4 payers ,they think they get it cheaper cause theres no tex then pick ur work to death. We dont skim entire wall for level 5 that method I will not tell:whistling2:as you stated above its more like walking,that holds true with our method also,all Im trying to achieve 2nd pass is craters and you would be surprised how it takes more mud 2nd pass . The mud shrinks in less than a minute quite a bit. We also do all butts at same time to save trips, and we tend to miss more stuff when you are wandering about:blink:Once again sorry to the electric tapers and tracers out there except to vanman he called me a name I didnt like,I liked what 2Buck called me


Sorry that you start to miss things the more you wander around

Level 5 is not a quality,it's more of a standard or code (though code not the best word). architects will address a level of finish required for a wall. a level 0 could just be a temporary wall, like a store front or something. A level 1 is more likely a weather seal or a fire tape, though fire tape may have more of a description . A level 2 is what a lot around here call a tape and a coat , usually a garage, or maybe something that will get tiled. I think a level 3 (without checking) is ,tape, coat flats and angles, 2 coats on screws. Then level 4 your into, must pass for paint, in a nut shell. Then level 5 is coat the whole damn wall, for what ever reason a architect may want.

I find level 5 is not a money gain at all, I find people are internet savvy these days. I find you give a price, then they say, so and so said he will skim all the walls for that price, will you do the same. It's up there with texture sprays etc, they think a spray will hide the joints better. Just like a level 5 is saying, you suck at taping, so skim all the walls. In this trade (taping and drywall) everyone wants the red sports car, but are only willing to pay for a Russian Lada.

So, it's not a quality level you set for your self with level 5, it a method, standard, system, that is to be followed. you can't invent your own level 5 standards.

Isn't DWT fun:thumbup:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Sorry that you start to miss things the more you wander around
> 
> Level 5 is not a quality,it's more of a standard or code (though code not the best word). architects will address a level of finish required for a wall. a level 0 could just be a temporary wall, like a store front or something. A level 1 is more likely a weather seal or a fire tape, though fire tape may have more of a description . A level 2 is what a lot around here call a tape and a coat , usually a garage, or maybe something that will get tiled. I think a level 3 (without checking) is ,tape, coat flats and angles, 2 coats on screws. Then level 4 your into, must pass for paint, in a nut shell. Then level 5 is coat the whole damn wall, for what ever reason a architect may want.
> 
> ...


 Level 5 where Im from calls for a smooth as a babies butt walls and or ceilings.Schools,Dr.s offices ,Dentists,College,stupid jewelry stores,some high end homes want level 5,and yes some archs specify to skim but that is up to builder,if they know our finish they will trust us and get a smooth finish and that is what everyone wants.Regardless of code or standard we finish to a level 4 then tex,shows the code guys dont know sheeeit


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> Level 5 where Im from calls for a smooth as a babies butt walls and or ceilings.Schools,Dr.s offices ,Dentists,College,stupid jewelry stores,some high end homes want level 5,and yes some archs specify to skim but that is up to builder,if they know our finish they will trust us and get a smooth finish and that is what everyone wants.Regardless of code or standard we finish to a level 4 then tex,shows the code guys dont know sheeeit


Your missing the point, it's not about you, manufacturers of drywall and the painters association set a WORLD WIDE STANDARD , so we could all understand, here it is for you

LEVEL 0: No taping, finishing or accessories required. This level of finish may be useful in temporary construction or whenever the final decoration has not been determined.

LEVEL 1: All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound. Tool marks and ridges are acceptable. This level of finish often referred to as "fire taping", is frequently specified in plenum areas above ceilings, in attics, in areas where the assembly would generally be concealed, or in building service corridors and other areas not normally open to public view. Accessories (cornerbead, base shoe other trims) optional at specifier discretion in corridors and other areas with pedestrian traffic.

LEVEL 2: All joints and interior angles shall have tape embedded in joint compound and one separate coat of joint compound applied over all joints, angles, fastener heads and accessories. Surface shall be free of excess joint compound, tool marks and ridges are acceptable. This level of finish is specified where water resistant drywall is used as a substrate for tile; may be specified in garages, warehouse storage or other similar areas where surface appearance is not of primary concern.

LEVEL 3: All joints and interior angles shall be tape embedded in joint compound and two coats of joint compound applied over all joints, angles, fastener heads and accessories. All joint compound shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges. Note: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a primer/sealer prior to the application of final finishes. This level of finish is typically specified in appearance areas which are to receive heavy or medium texture (spray or hand applied) finishes before final painting, or where heavy-grade wall coverings are to be applied as the final decoration.

LEVEL 4: All joints and interior angles shall be tape embedded in joint compound and three coats of joint compound applied over all joints, angles, fastener heads and accessories. All joint compound shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges. Note: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a primer/sealer prior to the application of final finishes. This level of finish is typically specified where light textures or wall coverings are to be applied, or economy is of concern.

LEVEL 5: All joints and interior angles shall be tape embedded in joint compound and three separate coats of joint compound applied over all joints, angles, fastener heads and accessories. A thin skim coat of joint compound, or a material manufactured especially for this purpose, shall be applied to the surface. The surface shall be smooth and free of tool marks and ridges. Note: It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a primer/sealer prior to the application of final finishes. This level of finish is recommended where gloss, semi gloss, enamel or nontextured flat paints are specified or where severe side lighting conditions occur. This highest quality finish is the most effective method to provide a uniform surface and minimize the possibility of joint photographing and of fasteners showing through the final decoration. (note: Application of primer/paint products over Level 4 and Level 5 smooth finish: Industry experience demonstrates an effective method for achieving a visually uniform surface for both the primer and topcoat is spray application immediately followed by back rolling or roller application using good roller techniques such as finishing in one direction and using roller types and naps recommended by the paint manufacturer.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

That is the same piece of paper Ive been showed by atleast a dozen supers or foreman.skim or not all that matters is the finish as long as everyone is happy than thats all that matters. I have a method that works,notice at bottom of paper where it says for painter to backroll...how often do they skip that. They also say to cover entire surface with a material specifically designed for application...it doesnt say what to use,just to eliminate flashing...right. Just noticed on level 4 it states where econmy is concerned...thats funny, we are doing schools level 5(state jobs) and they want level 4 where ecnomy is concerned. Dont remember that part when reading in the past


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

chris said:


> what I do to guage 1rst coat is..box flat,grab a 10" knife put edge straight on flat to see if hollow or flat or slightly over.when you pull knife away it should leave a lil mark on mud but clean knife should stay clean if u know what I mean


I USED to do that as well. :yes:

But knifing spots takes time away from actual boxing, and with 2buck's method, I use how things are drying after the 1st boxing to show me what's happening along ALL a flat, and not just in places. That lets me know if I should 'wander' my box a bit and where and by how much, to help deal with such as any high shoulder issues that might be a problem - and to do it without extra sanding needed after to get things right, because I feel more comfortable running at tighter box settings than I otherwise might.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> That is the same piece of paper Ive been showed by atleast a dozen supers or foreman.skim or not all that matters is the finish as long as everyone is happy than thats all that matters. I have a method that works,notice at bottom of paper where it says for painter to backroll...how often do they skip that. They also say to cover entire surface with a material specifically designed for application...it doesnt say what to use,just to eliminate flashing...right. Just noticed on level 4 it states where econmy is concerned...thats funny, we are doing schools level 5(state jobs) and they want level 4 where ecnomy is concerned. Dont remember that part when reading in the past


How old are you ?????????????? I feel like I'm suddenly talking to my son,or my teenage daughter, who knows more than me at age 15:whistling2:

All I see in your post, is your going to do things your way, b/c odds are the painters are going to do their job wrong.

And of coarse the states are going to do level 5 work in your schools. that's your tax dollars at work, your paying for that baby:thumbup:

private sector (houses) they have a budget to stick to, unlike the government:yes:


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Part of the theory, is that the mud is going to do it's most shrinking when 1st applied to the wall. Drywall is designed to absorb some of the moisture from the mud. So , depending on the air environment and so forth. The 1st pass you did is going to look good, but it's going to shrink (become hollow). and as it dries, it exposes the high and low shoulders. (the un-level joints)
> 
> So, when you run your second pass, it's going to fill back in where it's already gone hollow, and it allows you to address the shoulders better. so the next time when the joints are dry, and you do your final pass. what ever box your using will now skim coat tight, and not fill.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't understand why you just don't "slight crown" the first coat. and it will dry "level."

Have you done apartment/hotel buildings. There is no way a guy is going over everyflat twice (in one day). Be a big waste of time: 10" then 12" (after its drywall).

Same method for houses. but we "shadow coat" by hand the "critical lighting" areas.


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## Cratter (Sep 6, 2010)

chris said:


> Level 5 where Im from calls for a smooth as a babies butt walls and or ceilings.Schools,Dr.s offices ,Dentists,College,stupid jewelry stores,some high end homes want level 5,and yes some archs specify to skim but that is up to builder,if they know our finish they will trust us and get a smooth finish and that is what everyone wants.Regardless of code or standard we finish to a level 4 then tex,shows the code guys dont know sheeeit


 
2buck is right. 

Level 5 is a term which means "skim the whole wall." That is the "code" the "rulebook" you can't do anything else and truly call it a Level 5.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Your missing the point, it's not about you, manufacturers of drywall and the painters association set a WORLD WIDE STANDARD , so we could all understand, here it is for you
> 
> LEVEL 0: No taping, finishing or accessories required. This level of finish may be useful in temporary construction or whenever the final decoration has not been determined.
> 
> ...


I've read this before . Funny stuff.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Cratter said:


> Yeah I don't understand why you just don't "slight crown" the first coat. and it will dry "level."
> 
> Have you done apartment/hotel buildings. There is no way a guy is going over everyflat twice (in one day). Be a big waste of time: 10" then 12" (after its drywall).
> 
> Same method for houses. but we "shadow coat" by hand the "critical lighting" areas.


Yes I have done condo's etc..... lived the life of a gypsy to do them though. Great money but I got tired of the hotel game. So now I do the local housing market,,getting up there in age a bit so, 6 to 8 hours good enough for me now.

There's been a lot debated on the trace, I don't want to type for ever right now on the explaining of it. It's not as bad as it sounds. there's other older post that go more into detail. Sounds like your a production taper ,and you stuck up for me in a post too. I can send you a detailed PM if you want when I have time. (daughters on good PC:furious Then you might go HHHHmmmmmm ????? ill try it once


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

is sanding a level ? or a phase?:blink:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> How old are you ?????????????? I feel like I'm suddenly talking to my son,or my teenage daughter, who knows more than me at age 15:whistling2:
> 
> All I see in your post, is your going to do things your way, b/c odds are the painters are going to do their job wrong.
> 
> ...


not to mention the reveal bead they had us installing,sorry if confidence sounds like arrogance,there is a difference,my clients percieve it as confidence others may take me wrong. We dont do houses so that may be the major difference here,Im sorry but I dont feel like skimming an entire school after applying a fantastic finish,We have a way and its not skimming.We will be doing a school in about 3 months or so also a big state building around same time will have to show you how a couple pro whiteboys get er done:yes: O yeah Im 37 partner is 47 this month all we know is Drywall....lookin for a couple cubs this winter if anyone can stand working for an arrogant prck


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

chris said:


> not to mention the reveal bead they had us installing,sorry if confidence sounds like arrogance,there is a difference,my clients percieve it as confidence others may take me wrong. We dont do houses so that may be the major difference here,Im sorry but I dont feel like skimming an entire school after applying a fantastic finish,We have a way and its not skimming.We will be doing a school in about 3 months or so also a big state building around same time will have to show you how a couple pro whiteboys get er done:yes: O yeah Im 37 partner is 47 this month all we know is Drywall....lookin for a couple cubs this winter if anyone can stand working for an arrogant prck


I'm no cub ,, but I can be an arrogant prick . Winters are slow here so give me A call . Idaho Is not that far away.I like you chris ,,you got your way ,and you stick to It . :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

chris said:


> not to mention the reveal bead they had us installing,sorry if confidence sounds like arrogance,there is a difference,my clients percieve it as confidence others may take me wrong. We dont do houses so that may be the major difference here,Im sorry but I dont feel like skimming an entire school after applying a fantastic finish,We have a way and its not skimming.We will be doing a school in about 3 months or so also a big state building around same time will have to show you how a couple pro whiteboys get er done:yes: O yeah Im 37 partner is 47 this month all we know is Drywall....lookin for a couple cubs this winter if anyone can stand working for an arrogant prck


You half to be arrogant in this trade, and it looks like there is no quit in you either:thumbsup:

Does it snow where you live, me and 2buckjr can show you how to get things done:jester:

Were getting sick of snow, looking for a winter wonderland ,,, were there's no snow:jester:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

moore said:


> I'm no cub ,, but I can be an arrogant prick . Winters are slow here so give me A call . Idaho Is not that far away.I like you chris ,,you got your way ,and you stick to It . :thumbsup:


thanks Moore ,I think youre a pretty cool cat :yes:my best hand went back to work for his old man this Summer,sure miss him ,he will be back, could always use another finisher that knows whats up.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> You half to be arrogant in this trade, and it looks like there is no quit in you either:thumbsup:
> 
> Does it snow where you live, me and 2buckjr can show you how to get things done:jester:
> 
> Were getting sick of snow, looking for a winter wonderland ,,, were there's no snow:jester:


unfortunately yes ,we get snow,more than normal last winter


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

chris said:


> People that want smooth (level5 )will pay more.The level 4 payers ,they think they get it cheaper cause theres no tex then pick ur work to death. We dont skim entire wall for level 5 that method I will not tell:whistling2:as you stated above its more like walking,that holds true with our method also,all Im trying to achieve 2nd pass is craters and you would be surprised how it takes more mud 2nd pass . The mud shrinks in less than a minute quite a bit. We also do all butts at same time to save trips, and we tend to miss more stuff when you are wandering about:blink:Once again sorry to the electric tapers and tracers out there except to vanman he called me a name I didnt like,I liked what 2Buck called me


 U shouldn't have started with Tracing B.S if u didn't want an answer like that I only asked a question and ur response was SH*T!!


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## McDusty (Oct 12, 2009)

2 'tracing' threads going at once! interesting. anyway, it's a waste of time. if your boxes are set decently your mud is mixed right, just run each flat 2x. run one way, and back the other way. if your setup is right, it should dry to virtually flat. next coat is pretty much a skim. proper sanding makes for true flat.


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

McDusty said:


> 2 'tracing' threads going at once! interesting. anyway, it's a waste of time. if your boxes are set decently your mud is mixed right, just run each flat 2x. run one way, and back the other way. if your setup is right, it should dry to virtually flat. next coat is pretty much a skim. proper sanding makes for true flat.


 
deja vu


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> Does it snow where you live, me and 2buckjr can show you how to get things done:jester:
> 
> Were getting sick of snow, looking for a winter wonderland ,,, were there's no snow:jester:


 Snows here too, we got snow three times this winter,,, even lasted for two days one time,,:whistling2:


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