# taping/board issues



## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

Anybody else had issues with boxes covering the tape on the flats. Georgia pacific board seems to be the worst for us. Recess looks nice and wide but even after wiping tight, the box, even on a 2 setting leaves some tape shining. It looks likes the board recess is deep but then right on the edge it comes back up leaving the tape sitting high. It really pisses me off on the first float even though after the 12 it covers pretty well for the most part. The paper is also junk, any dried mud that is knocked off with a 6 tears the paper. I know this is nothing new it just seems to get worse and worse. It's just making for extra work.

Oh yeah, one more thing while I'm griping, the edges are rounded so badly causing a wrinkle in the middle of the tape. Almost needs a prefill on the flats. Ok, I'm finished now, sorry for the rant.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Where I'm from we could call the Drywall Association and force the manufacturer to pay for our extra labor. However, if you have no trade association that will stand up to them you're just screwed.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Or just be quiet and charge more/pay your guys more to fix it... But most of the board is garbage now.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Judging from the two previous post . No one yet knows what the OP Is speaking of ..


I DO!


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

moore said:


> Judging from the two previous post . No one yet knows what the OP Is speaking of ..
> 
> 
> I DO!


Hell, I don't even know what an OP is.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

moore said:


> Judging from the two previous post . No one yet knows what the OP Is speaking of ..
> 
> 
> I DO!




I think I shared a picture of just the exact thing in the high shoulder thread a while back


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Or maybe it was a treat of the week thread I don't remember


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Call the supply house have them come out and look they should either cover it or get in touch with the manufacturer to have it covered


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

MrWillys said:


> Where I'm from we could call the Drywall Association and force the manufacturer to pay for our extra labor. However, if you have no trade association that will stand up to them you're just screwed.





moore said:


> Judging from the two previous post . No one yet knows what the OP Is speaking of ..
> 
> 
> I DO!





fr8train said:


> I think I shared a picture of just the exact thing in the high shoulder thread a while back
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 If you are not involved with your local trade association then bad board is only your fault. Where I'm from we have the Wall and Ceiling Association.

http://www.wallandceilingalliance.org/

They would negotiate as members on our behalf to have the manufacturer pay for our extra labor for finishing. If you chose not to participate in your local trade associations then you are part of the problem and not the solution. Therefore, any additional labor is your own fault.

https://www.agc.org/

http://www.abc.org/

I'm disappointed a moderator of this board would support whining rather than a solution to issues that affect us as Drywallers.


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

MrWillys said:


> If you are not involved with your local trade association then bad board is only your fault. Where I'm from we have the Wall and Ceiling Association.
> 
> http://www.wallandceilingalliance.org/
> 
> ...



The free market solution is what we have done in the past. Do not except any more of the badly manufactured board. Demand another brand. And threaten to use another provider if they don't wish to comply.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

endo_alley_revisited said:


> The free market solution is what we have done in the past. Do not except any more of the badly manufactured board. Demand another brand. And threaten to use another provider if they don't wish to comply.


That's great if you have that latitude. However, most of the work I did was brand specific or used proprietary assemblies. USG is the worst for proprietary assemblies. While some allowed submittals for change they weren't always approved because they Architect may have to resubmit to the JHA.

Have you ever used Gypsum Association's GA-600 or the UL Fire Design manual?

Out West we have Georgia Pacific, National, Pabco and USG. Listed in order of my favorite.


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

MrWillys said:


> That's great if you have that latitude. However, most of the work I did was brand specific or used proprietary assemblies. USG is the worst for proprietary assemblies. While some allowed submittals for change they weren't always approved because they Architect may have to resubmit to the JHA.
> 
> Have you ever used Gypsum Association's GA-600 or the UL Fire Design manual?
> 
> Out West we have Georgia Pacific, National, Pabco and USG. Listed in order of my favorite.


Yes. Most manufacturers have similar fire rated assemblies and products to assemble them with. Typically an architect will specify an assembly. But give the contractor the opportunity to find another equivalent assembly if they can find the necessary documentation to support it. Our main brand is American sheetrock. It is manufactured just down the road in Gypsum Colorado. Shaft wall liner is usually USG or Gold Bond.


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

When we do level 5 work we usually pre shim the (wood framed) walls as straight as possible. Even some planning on wood. Then (if price allows) we cut bundles of shims down to 40 inches. we shim the entire wall with the 40" shims. centered in the center of the sheet. With the top and bottom 4" of sheet along bands unshimmed. The butt joints and any where that a corner bead goes is obviously left unshimmed also. This is a very deluxe method to give the finishers as flat a wall as possible. The bands and butt joints roll in nicely. As do the outside corners.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> If you are not involved with your local trade association then bad board is only your fault. Where I'm from we have the Wall and Ceiling Association.
> 
> http://www.wallandceilingalliance.org/
> 
> ...


Your full of chit!

If we were to send back every bad batch of board ? There would be no board to hang on the east coast !

You Scott IMO Don't know jack chit about a recess or a butt joint . All you've ever done is throw some egg holes in them and walk away.. I've met up with more reps than you can count!!

I'm sure my local trade association are just as stupid as any tie wearing rep that's never touched a sheet of rock ...OH!!!!! They see It made In there Plants! They've just laid a hand on It . 


BTW....I Never click on to your links !! 
Because I know It's more than likely a bunch of tit sucking Union bullchit !


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Ladrywall said:


> Anybody else had issues with boxes covering the tape on the flats. Georgia pacific board seems to be the worst for us. Recess looks nice and wide but even after wiping tight, the box, even on a 2 setting leaves some tape shining. It looks likes the board recess is deep but then right on the edge it comes back up leaving the tape sitting high. It really pisses me off on the first float even though after the 12 it covers pretty well for the most part. The paper is also junk, any dried mud that is knocked off with a 6 tears the paper. I know this is nothing new it just seems to get worse and worse. It's just making for extra work.
> 
> Oh yeah, one more thing while I'm griping, the edges are rounded so badly causing a wrinkle in the middle of the tape. Almost needs a prefill on the flats. Ok, I'm finished now, sorry for the rant.





moore said:


> Judging from the two previous post . No one yet knows what the OP Is speaking of ..
> 
> 
> I DO!


And still ? No one has addressed the Issue the OP Is talking about? 

I'll give you a hint !! 'wrinkle in the middle of the tape' 

Lets see how many links willy can find on this!!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

moore said:


> Your full of chit!
> 
> If we were to send back every bad batch of board ? There would be no board to hang on the east coast !
> 
> ...


 We never sent the board back Rick. We negotiated the extra labor to finish it and got paid. When they have to pay you they fix it. Have a good evening.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> We never sent the board back Rick. We negotiated the extra labor to finish it and got paid. When they have to pay you they fix it. Have a good evening.



I have no idea what planet you live on ! They don't fix chit!

You have a good evening too!!


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I have to disagree. I've been paid plenty of times to fix bad board. Still have bad board.

Whatever they changed that started the entire high shoulders/bad bevels problem saves them enough money that it's cheaper for them to just pay the labor to fix it than to change their system. So that's what they do. 

We've had the reps out to take pics and samples and the board almost always meets their specifications. 

I would gladly never get paid to fix a bad board again and have good board. 


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

....


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I remember a a comment some time ago that alot of the issues that you nlokes are are dealing with started when they went to recycled /synthetic gypsum.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks like chiselled edges there Rick. Depending on which way they are you end up having a join that is peaked or looks like a butt crack.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I don't know if the problem is the synthetic gypsum or not. I do remember someone else saying that they switch from rollers to shoes to make the bevels or vice versa


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> I remember a a comment some time ago that alot of the issues that you nlokes are are dealing with started when they went to recycled /synthetic gypsum.



Hey Gary! Don't get Willy confused ! 

He'll be up all night looking for links !! :vs_laugh:


And yes ...Certainteed are the ones that started making board from coal burning chimney ash. They even bought a factory in NC That had mountains of the ash sitting there . Instead of paying the moving cost they just bought the place and built a plant right there .
I Know this because a smoke blower told me so ...With a big ole **** eating grin on his face ! Like he'd discovered Noah's Arc !!

I myself ! Don't care WTF They make it out of ! The biggest problem with most all boards ...I say ALL! N/G/ Gold Bond/ USG/ Certainteed -[the worse!] Is they switched from rollers to wedges to form the recesses .. And I don't think any of them have changed the cutter blades in the last 10 years !!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

gazman said:


> Looks like chiselled edges there Rick. Depending on which way they are you end up having a join that is peaked or looks like a butt crack.



It's a round edge to a round edge . The edges aren't flat like they use to be . That's the problem The OP Is speaking of.

And If the bevel is shallow It makes the problem even worse . I can get by on the side walls without pre-fill If I wipe it tight enough ..but on the ceilings gravity takes hold ..and pre-fill is almost a must on some boards . 

I've dealt with about every brand of board They make ! The main drywall supplier in Va[5 locations] carries what they carry! And it can vary from week to week or month to month!! I ...or any other D/C Has no control over it . You get what you get!!

So I've gotten pretty good at dealing with each one and the issues they throw at me . If I acted like a little bitch every time I wasn't happy with the load they sent !! Id be out of business ! :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> I don't know if the problem is the synthetic gypsum or not. I do remember someone else saying that they switch from rollers to shoes to make the bevels or vice versa
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wedges ! You know why? Guess what ? 

I'm Gonna tell ya why! 


The rollers wear down after a short period of time,, and to change them up / replace them means to shut the plant down for however long [?] 
So these wedges they use now last much longer than the old rollers . There for the plant keeps pushing out board for longer periods of time without shut downs .

Now ! Iffen my hillbilly cusin screwin ass is wrong about dis ?

I'd welcome any wallboard manufacture in the US To join DT And give us the down !! :whistling2:


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> We never sent the board back Rick. We negotiated the extra labor to finish it and got paid. When they have to pay you they fix it.


I've done it before and my conclusion:....not worth.....you just slow down and you can mess up with the program....much easier just to send it back


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

MrWillys said:


> We never sent the board back Rick. We negotiated the extra labor to finish it and got paid. When they have to pay you they fix it.





moore said:


> I have no idea what planet you live on ! They don't fix chit!





fr8train said:


> I have to disagree. I've been paid plenty of times to fix bad board.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh: looks funny :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Shoulders everywhere. Amazing difference between wet and dry huh. Second pic just after 12 box run. Left then run again then back wiped. Last pic same seam an hr later. Some of this place had rounded edges like in moores pic and some the sheet edges were tight as, Same brand different batches.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

These are great. Bracelineboard. Yet next house. Same board screws where sweet as. Like standard board.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

I been using g-tech board here, recesses are pretty s-house tho, they are very shallow and round 


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

fr8train said:


> I have to disagree. I've been paid plenty of times to fix bad board. Still have bad board.
> 
> Whatever they changed that started the entire high shoulders/bad bevels problem saves them enough money that it's cheaper for them to just pay the labor to fix it than to change their system. So that's what they do.
> 
> ...


When the blade to cut the length gets out of square and all the joints have to be pre filled we got paid and they fixed it. To not fight against the manufacturer to keep them honest is a fools game. If you don't call them out and accept poor quality makes you complicit.

high shoulders is caused by the roller that creates the recess pushing material back towards the core. honestly, it is a difficult task to overcome for the manufacturer.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> high shoulders is caused by the roller that creates the recess pushing material back towards the core. honestly, it is a difficult task to overcome for the manufacturer.



If that's the case ...Why Is It I never had a problem with high shoulders till 10 years ago? Before that...I didn't know what a high shoulder was .


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## BOBTHEFIXER (Oct 28, 2013)

Grrrrrr


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

moore said:


> If that's the case ...Why Is It I never had a problem with high shoulders till 10 years ago? Before that...I didn't know what a high shoulder was .


We used to have wicked high shoulders with some rock called Flintkote. (Maybe it was Flintrock) That was maybe 25 -30 years ago. I've never seen anything come close to it lately. Also, the face paper used to come delaminated off of it in large sheets. The American brand sheetrock we use today isn't perfect. But it is a heck of a lot better.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


N/G Light weight ?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

...... the back of the board fits tighter than the face side .


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

40 butt joints veed out and pre-filled before tape


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

,,,,,


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

....


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

I've never seen board that looks that bad!


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

moore said:


> ...... the back of the board fits tighter than the face side .


You using FibaFuse Rick? I didn't think you liked it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> I've never seen board that looks that bad!


I Deal with chit all the time !! 


gazman said:


> You using FibaFuse Rick? I didn't think you liked it.


No.. Paper .


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

The light weight board has been trash since day one ! 


They make It ! They don't use It!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MrWillys said:


> I've never seen board that looks that bad!


yes you have! you just didn't know any better !


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

moore said:


> ....


That's a sure fire way to prep the board. Prefill everything. Always the best policy.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Another load of trash on It's way to someones living Hell!


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Is that a ghost in the side mirror of your truck?


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Is that a ghost in the side mirror of your truck?



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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

moore said:


> N/G Light weight ?




To be honest Rick, I don't remember for sure what brand that was. My guess is that it was either NG or Certainteed. 


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

fr8train said:


> To be honest Rick, I don't remember for sure what brand that was. My guess is that it was either NG or Certainteed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey ...These days ! The best of the worst is as good as anything!!


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## Lovin Drywall (May 27, 2016)

I just prefill all the butts and ceiling flats all good after that oh well thanks lightweight board


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