# Top corners not filling out after rolling and flushing



## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

Happy New Years to all,

Needing some advice here, after I roll the tape in the top corners (after bazooka) I run my 3" angle head. More times than not the corner doesn't fill out completely leaving "ugly mud" in the recess. Sometimes I think it has to do with the rolling but cant help but think a 2.5" anglehead may help fix the problem. The down corners do MUCH better, rarely a problem. Do ya'll think a 2.5 will flush out better seeing as how it seems theres not enough mud to fill out? 

BTW, I probably would have never spent the money on the tools if not for reading and research on this site. They have more than paid for themselves, now I cannot imagine going back to all hand finishing.

Thanks...


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

Ladrywall said:


> Happy New Years to all,
> 
> Needing some advice here, after I roll the tape in the top corners (after bazooka) I run my 3" angle head. More times than not the corner doesn't fill out completely leaving "ugly mud" in the recess. Sometimes I think it has to do with the rolling but cant help but think a 2.5" anglehead may help fix the problem. The down corners do MUCH better, rarely a problem. Do ya'll think a 2.5 will flush out better seeing as how it seems theres not enough mud to fill out?
> 
> ...


Ladrywall, bet you don't miss finishing angles by hand! The reason for the up and down angles not having 'ugly mud' after flushing them is because the tapered edge does require more mud to fill them. Anytime you run an angle that does not have a tapered edge you're essentially 'building up' the angle, as opposed to filling in the taper. Angleheads like a cut edge/butt edge better than a tapered edge. Which is why you're having more succes with up and down angles. Sounds like you don't own anything but a 3" head, and if you do, I bet it's a 3.5". Running the same size head over angles on skim/finish day can lead to unnecessary build up and make sanding a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. I've found that a 2.5" head for taping does help the problem you're having with the 'ugly mud'. I then use a 3" head for the skim/finish coat. A lot of guys will disagree with me, saying that using a 3" first then 2.5" is better because of the ease of pushing the tool on the skim/finish coat. The reasoning behind my method is because I tape with All-purpose & skim/finish with Mid-weight, which in turn covers up the All-purpose which is harder to sand and you don't have two different compounds exposed to paint. I also skim/finish my angles with a TapeTech Mudrunner, which makes things so much easier it's stupid. I'm not saying that doing it any other way is wrong, because you can achieve good results with other ways, I've just found for myself that this method seems to work best for me.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Just use a 2.5 head for tapecoat, Then something bigger to finish and you will be fine.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

drywallninja said:


> Ladrywall, bet you don't miss finishing angles by hand! The reason for the up and down angles not having 'ugly mud' after flushing them is because the tapered edge does require more mud to fill them. Anytime you run an angle that does not have a tapered edge you're essentially 'building up' the angle, as opposed to filling in the taper. Angleheads like a cut edge/butt edge better than a tapered edge. Which is why you're having more succes with up and down angles. Sounds like you don't own anything but a 3" head, and if you do, I bet it's a 3.5". Running the same size head over angles on skim/finish day can lead to unnecessary build up and make sanding a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. I've found that a 2.5" head for taping does help the problem you're having with the 'ugly mud'. I then use a 3" head for the skim/finish coat. A lot of guys will disagree with me, saying that using a 3" first then 2.5" is better because of the ease of pushing the tool on the skim/finish coat. The reasoning behind my method is because I tape with All-purpose & skim/finish with Mid-weight, which in turn covers up the All-purpose which is harder to sand and you don't have two different compounds exposed to paint. I also skim/finish my angles with a TapeTech Mudrunner, which makes things so much easier it's stupid. I'm not saying that doing it any other way is wrong, because you can achieve good results with other ways, I've just found for myself that this method seems to work best for me.


exactly

do u use a tin head or mechanical head,
factory bevel errors exist, stay at 3 head so you ride on bevel not in with 2.5 leaving you to shrink in cold weather and having alot of touch up, I run 3 wipe and 3.5 finnish, rarely having to fix Angle

miss frame also exists


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

It is best to prefill any gaps in the inside angles (along with any other gaps) with setting compound prior to taping. Large gaps in angles, or when there are gaps on both sides should be pre taped while taping flats. Then tape entire angle as is done normally. Also, maybe your taping mud is too stiff. Or you are waiting too long to either roll or glaze the angle, and there is some drying occurring. When all else fails, it is handy to have a small lamb's wool roller to apply more mud to the angle, and re glaze it.


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## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

drywallninja said:


> Ladrywall, bet you don't miss finishing angles by hand! The reason for the up and down angles not having 'ugly mud' after flushing them is because the tapered edge does require more mud to fill them. Anytime you run an angle that does not have a tapered edge you're essentially 'building up' the angle, as opposed to filling in the taper. Angleheads like a cut edge/butt edge better than a tapered edge. Which is why you're having more succes with up and down angles. Sounds like you don't own anything but a 3" head, and if you do, I bet it's a 3.5". Running the same size head over angles on skim/finish day can lead to unnecessary build up and make sanding a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. I've found that a 2.5" head for taping does help the problem you're having with the 'ugly mud'. I then use a 3" head for the skim/finish coat. A lot of guys will disagree with me, saying that using a 3" first then 2.5" is better because of the ease of pushing the tool on the skim/finish coat. The reasoning behind my method is because I tape with All-purpose & skim/finish with Mid-weight, which in turn covers up the All-purpose which is harder to sand and you don't have two different compounds exposed to paint. I also skim/finish my angles with a TapeTech Mudrunner, which makes things so much easier it's stupid. I'm not saying that doing it any other way is wrong, because you can achieve good results with other ways, I've just found for myself that this method seems to work best for me.



Thanks. Makes sense, the 3" riding on the bevel instead of in it. Yes, I only own a columbia 3" right now, been taping and skimming with it then spot the edges and a light sand. We pretty much use all-purpose green lid for everything just because its what the old man has always used. Maybe we should try some mid-weight. I think i need to spend the money on the 2.5'. Just out of curiosity what type of finish is prevelent in your area for residential? Here in southeast Louisiana we're doing mostly orange peel walls and skip trowel ceilings with the occasional orange peel/stomp (crows foot) or orange peel/orange peel.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Try a Columbia 2.5 behind the taper. :yes:


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

Ladrywall said:


> Thanks. Makes sense, the 3" riding on the bevel instead of in it. Yes, I only own a columbia 3" right now, been taping and skimming with it then spot the edges and a light sand. We pretty much use all-purpose green lid for everything just because its what the old man has always used. Maybe we should try some mid-weight. I think i need to spend the money on the 2.5'. Just out of curiosity what type of finish is prevelent in your area for residential? Here in southeast Louisiana we're doing mostly orange peel walls and skip trowel ceilings with the occasional orange peel/stomp (crows foot) or orange peel/orange peel.


I think a 2.5" is a smart move! I also spot/stripe the angles that don't have a bevel. Seems like an extra step, but makes sanding so much easier and fills the angle in and makes it look really tight! Everything around here is smooth, occasionally a spray knockdown in a garage. Texture has seemed to become non-existent around these parts, especially in homes. 
I'll tell ya what though, I invested in a festool planex a while back and almost rather sand a ceiling than texture one. That sander has been a total game changer! The hand sanding that follows is so minimal it's crazy! Hope the 2.5" works out for ya! You'll be psyched how well it fills in on those top angles on tape day!


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## prwint (Dec 28, 2014)

drywallninja said:


> Ladrywall, bet you don't miss finishing angles by hand! The reason for the up and down angles not having 'ugly mud' after flushing them is because the tapered edge does require more mud to fill them. Anytime you run an angle that does not have a tapered edge you're essentially 'building up' the angle, as opposed to filling in the taper. Angleheads like a cut edge/butt edge better than a tapered edge. Which is why you're having more succes with up and down angles. Sounds like you don't own anything but a 3" head, and if you do, I bet it's a 3.5". Running the same size head over angles on skim/finish day can lead to unnecessary build up and make sanding a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. I've found that a 2.5" head for taping does help the problem you're having with the 'ugly mud'. I then use a 3" head for the skim/finish coat. A lot of guys will disagree with me, saying that using a 3" first then 2.5" is better because of the ease of pushing the tool on the skim/finish coat. The reasoning behind my method is because I tape with All-purpose & skim/finish with Mid-weight, which in turn covers up the All-purpose which is harder to sand and you don't have two different compounds exposed to paint. I also skim/finish my angles with a TapeTech Mudrunner, which makes things so much easier it's stupid. I'm not saying that doing it any other way is wrong, because you can achieve good results with other ways, I've just found for myself that this method seems to work best for me.



Personally I like to flush my tape with a 2 1/2 inch tin flusher and finish with a 3 inch mechanical. actually I run a 2 1/2" mechanical then at 3. I double coat my angles. But what I really want to know is do you have problems with the plastic tube cracking on your Mudrunner? I have been running corner boxes for the last couple of years because I kept breaking the tubes on my Mudrunners. More accurately my guys would say they mysteriously cracked while stored safely in the van. They are far better to run than a corner box, but when I got the replacement tubes they didn't seem to want to push the mud out anymore. If you make them work for you I would love to hear any advice you have for me.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

A 3" glazing head should fill in nicely behind a bazooka if the head is adjusted properly. As an experiment, I would try taping a single horizontal angle. Immediately roll it with an angle roller and then immediately glaze it with the 3" head pre loaded with compound. Be careful obviously to pre roll the drive wheel of the bazooka to get enough mud on the tape from the onset. If the gaps have been prefilled and you are hitting it fresh it should fill in nicely. If it doesn't you may have too much crown on the blades to the angle head. If it does fill in nicely, then your problem has been operator failure.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

prwint said:


> Personally I like to flush my tape with a 2 1/2 inch tin flusher and finish with a 3 inch mechanical. actually I run a 2 1/2" mechanical then at 3. I double coat my angles. But what I really want to know is do you have problems with the plastic tube cracking on your Mudrunner? I have been running corner boxes for the last couple of years because I kept breaking the tubes on my Mudrunners. More accurately my guys would say they mysteriously cracked while stored safely in the van. They are far better to run than a corner box, but when I got the replacement tubes they didn't seem to want to push the mud out anymore. If you make them work for you I would love to hear any advice you have for me.


Haven't ran into any problems with mine. I def keep her clean and make sure i spray a little lubricant in the small hole on the white collar by the handle and also take the plastic tube off after each use and lube up the rubber gasket that pushes the mud thru. Other than that I've only had to tighten the screw that holds the upper assembly to the main pole.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

endo_alley said:


> A 3" glazing head should fill in nicely behind a bazooka if the head is adjusted properly. As an experiment, I would try taping a single horizontal angle. Immediately roll it with an angle roller and then immediately glaze it with the 3" head pre loaded with compound. Be careful obviously to pre roll the drive wheel of the bazooka to get enough mud on the tape from the onset. If the gaps have been prefilled and you are hitting it fresh it should fill in nicely. If it doesn't you may have too much crown on the blades to the angle head. If it does fill in nicely, then your problem has been operator failure.


Do you run the same size head on skim/finish coat?


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

drywallninja said:


> Do you run the same size head on skim/finish coat?


Darn. I'm Busted. Actually, I have a 2 1/2" that I prefer to use for taping if the angles need running later on. Then a 3" or 3.5" for running the angles. But I used a 3" for both operations the first twenty years I worked. So having two angle heads is better. But if you don't have two angle heads, a 3" can do double duty.


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## prwint (Dec 28, 2014)

drywallninja said:


> Haven't ran into any problems with mine. I def keep her clean and make sure i spray a little lubricant in the small hole on the white collar by the handle and also take the plastic tube off after each use and lube up the rubber gasket that pushes the mud thru. Other than that I've only had to tighten the screw that holds the upper assembly to the main pole.


Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll buy a new one and try it again.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

prwint said:


> Thanks for the advice, maybe I'll buy a new one and try it again.


I hear ya there buddy, pushing that corner box is harder than it looks. I agree with ya on the Mudrunner leaving more mud, come sanding day, it's very rare that some tape flashes thru. I'll never go back. Hope it works out for ya.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

endo_alley said:


> Darn. I'm Busted. Actually, I have a 2 1/2" that I prefer to use for taping if the angles need running later on. Then a 3" or 3.5" for running the angles. But I used a 3" for both operations the first twenty years I worked. So having two angle heads is better. But if you don't have two angle heads, a 3" can do double duty.


I remember emptying my savings account to buy my first set of tools, and them sh*ts were used! I rebuilt the 3" head that came with em and resorted to using that for tape and skim for a while till I bought the 2.5". It gets ya by, but it ain't the cats ass! Someone should start a thread about being green and the firsts times we all did this sh*t! I guarantee some funny stuff comes to mind!


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## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

Anyone run a tin head then the mechanical head behind that for skim coat? Wondering if the rounded point of the tin head would leave a slightly rounded corner and interfere with the skim coat using the mechanical head. Gonna buy either a 2.5 mechancial or the 2.5 tin head, the tin head is just so much cheaper i'd rather buy it if it'll work.


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## prwint (Dec 28, 2014)

Are you talking about a tin head for taping? Or at tin head as a first coat and then skimming with mechanical? If you use a tin head for taping you should be fine. But I would not recommend using it with the tube before running a mechanical.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

Ladrywall said:


> Anyone run a tin head then the mechanical head behind that for skim coat? Wondering if the rounded point of the tin head would leave a slightly rounded corner and interfere with the skim coat using the mechanical head. Gonna buy either a 2.5 mechancial or the 2.5 tin head, the tin head is just so much cheaper i'd rather buy it if it'll work.


Running angleheads after a tin head is gonna be problematic because of the 'rounded' corner a tin head leaves. But running a tin head after an anglehead will cause ya less grief.


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## taper71 (Dec 9, 2007)

drywallninja said:


> Running angleheads after a tin head is gonna be problematic because of the 'rounded' corner a tin head leaves. But running a tin head after an anglehead will cause ya less grief.


I have no problem with a tin head first then a mechanical. I'm lazy and only like to fix the odd bottom corner instead of them all, on taping day. Also with the tin head on tape day, its a lot less likely that you will catch the tapes on the flats and butts. Lately I have been using a 3" tin for taping, then a 3" mechanical for skim, It works fine not much of edge build up at all


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

taper71 said:


> I have no problem with a tin head first then a mechanical. I'm lazy and only like to fix the odd bottom corner instead of them all, on taping day. Also with the tin head on tape day, its a lot less likely that you will catch the tapes on the flats and butts. Lately I have been using a 3" tin for taping, then a 3" mechanical for skim, It works fine not much of edge build up at all


That's what I have been doing also!:thumbsup:
3 tin head followed by 3 Dm head! No rounded corners and no probs!:thumbup: I think the Dm head is wider than the tin head also!


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

The tin head is good for taping but im getting sick and tired of using the tube to put mud on corners then flushing with the 3.5 I shouldve bought the corner box and mechanicals instead. also flushing is kind of a mess no matter what I do all I hear is globs of mud hitting the floor. Think im going to buy a corner box and mechanicals next seems so much faster then tube and flushers. Next is deciding on mudrunner or corner box


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Corey The Taper said:


> The tin head is good for taping but im getting sick and tired of using the tube to put mud on corners then flushing with the 3.5 I shouldve bought the corner box and mechanicals instead. also flushing is kind of a mess no matter what I do all I hear is globs of mud hitting the floor. Think im going to buy a corner box and mechanicals next seems so much faster then tube and flushers. Next is deciding on mudrunner or corner box


I use the tube and a 3 or 2.5 Dm head for flushing(Last coat)
I also have a runner but it's not moved since I got the Tapepro tube!:thumbsup:
I would not use a tin direct flusher to finish anything as I have tried it! Not good!:blink:
But u could try a mechanical head on the tube before u spend another few hundred $$$$$ on a corner box!
Depends on the tube, If it's BTE then u will need a new tube for an angle head or get some 80g sandpaper and go to town on the ball so it fits!:yes:
Sorry miss read ur post I think! U put the mud on with the tube then flush with the flusher on a pole?


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Yes I put mud on with the tube and flush with a canam 3.5 my problem is the mess and I feel like a corner box would be alot faster since its 1 less step


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

I tape with a homax and a 2.5 canam that is no problem


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

I did not read any post on this thread....if you tape by hand or zook or tube or use the spoon ...lol ......how wet is your mud?


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Corey The Taper said:


> The tin head is good for taping but im getting sick and tired of using the tube to put mud on corners then flushing with the 3.5 I shouldve bought the corner box and mechanicals instead. also flushing is kind of a mess no matter what I do all I hear is globs of mud hitting the floor. Think im going to buy a corner box and mechanicals next seems so much faster then tube and flushers. Next is deciding on mudrunner or corner box


wow Corey...whats up ..before you go spend all your money take off that dame ball on your tube and run a bead....and flush it. its not hard and I dont make a mess. start your bead 3'' from the bottom and go up the wall part way. then 1'' from the top and go down. when you flush it there is no mess...do you want me to make a video for you?


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

Corey The Taper said:


> The tin head is good for taping but im getting sick and tired of using the tube to put mud on corners then flushing with the 3.5 I shouldve bought the corner box and mechanicals instead. also flushing is kind of a mess no matter what I do all I hear is globs of mud hitting the floor. Think im going to buy a corner box and mechanicals next seems so much faster then tube and flushers. Next is deciding on mudrunner or corner box


My corner box sits ever since I bought a Mudrunner, IMO the Mudrunner is king ding-a-ling. It's a one step process where you're not pushing, just twisting.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

I am thinking if I had a mud runner it would just sit in a corner in my shed


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

icerock drywall said:


> I am thinking if I had a mud runner it would just sit in a pile of parts waiting to be turned into something else in a corner in my shed



Fixed it for you!


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

icerock drywall said:


> I am thinking if I had a mud runner it would just sit in a corner in my shed


Ice, you ever been around one and had the chance to use it?


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

mld said:


> Fixed it for you!


lmao...how did you do that:thumbup:


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

drywallninja said:


> Ice, you ever been around one and had the chance to use it?


sorry bro ...I know how they work and I would just take it apart


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

icerock drywall said:


> sorry bro ...I know how they work and I would just take it apart


No worries. I'm with ya on disassembly of tools and being able to mod and adjust things to ones liking.


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

I do use just the ball I think its because when its filled with mud its too long so its harder for me to push since my arm reach isnt that far since im only 5'4 I notice when its half way I can be more even with the mud. But then I always get those air pockets too even when I use a pump to fill the tube


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

Unless you mean the ball ball I never even noticed if you could take it off ill check tomorrow it might make it easier to push thanks for the tip


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

I run with no ball with a 3/8 nipple ...no mess and the water on the floor is not from clean up ...its from my clean flusher drips a little water...this is a small job so I dry taped it in this process 
1 / run bead
2 / light flush
3 / ff corner
4 / flush the next day run bead and flush and your done


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## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

Just wanted to say....I purchased a Columbia 2.5 tin head for taping. It works great, leaves a little more mud than the mechanical head and flushes out the top corners where i was having a problem very good. Now I hope the corner box with 3" mechanical will put on the final coat with no problems, if so I'm in business with the corner situation. I like the way you can clean the 3 ways and bottoms easily with the tin head. 

I also used some trim-tex magic corner in a house with a 20' tall barn style ceiling, 48' runs. I mudded it on the stapled it, have not floated it yet. anyone have any good or bad experiences with this product?


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

Ladrywall said:


> Just wanted to say....I purchased a Columbia 2.5 tin head for taping. It works great, leaves a little more mud than the mechanical head and flushes out the top corners where i was having a problem very good. Now I hope the corner box with 3" mechanical will put on the final coat with no problems, if so I'm in business with the corner situation. I like the way you can clean the 3 ways and bottoms easily with the tin head.
> 
> I also used some trim-tex magic corner in a house with a 20' tall barn style ceiling, 48' runs. I mudded it on the stapled it, have not floated it yet. anyone have any good or bad experiences with this product?


I use the 847 spray glue with the magic corner...and all the columbia tool are great


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

I've been using a lot of magic corner lately. Mudset style. For me it's a little more work than NoCoat. Cathedral ceiling type inside off-angles. I get more peace of mind knowing how much movement the Magic Corner will allow. Just don't forget to clean out the groove. Any dried mud left in will fall out later if movement occurs.


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## 37chambers (Oct 5, 2013)

I would like to chime in this thread on the way we do our angles. Many of you make think I am nuts doing it this way. Tape with zook, roll, glaze with 3'' columbia head. First coat on angles 2.5'' drywall master bone head ran with 7'' columbia angle box. Second coat on angles 3.5'' bone head again behind the angle box. Yes we 2 coat our angles. Its an extra step yes, however it makes a beautiful angle and eliminates A LOT of sanding and I never have touch ups in my angles doing it this way. I have found the 2 coat method only works if you use the angle box. Any other method of angles tube, mudrunner etc leaves more mud than the angle box eliminating the need for 2 coats on the angles, but its a lot more sanding and touch ups in my experience. I have found the amount of sanding/touch ups the 2 coat method eliminates far out weighs the the extra mud/time the second coat on angles takes. Not to mention I can haul A$$ on an angle box.


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## Ladrywall (Jul 30, 2013)

icerock drywall said:


> I use the 847 spray glue with the magic corner...and all the columbia tool are great



I'm gonna try the 847 soon just haven't got around to it. I have a problem getting trim-tex products in my area. The closest store that carries any amount of it is 1.5 hours away in New Orleans, a huge hassle to go get it. The closer Sherwin Williams stores don't carry anything even though they are listed as dealers. I think I could upsale alot of the trim tex products but I'm afraid to market it at this point because I don't know if I could get the material. In my local market it's just the same boring 90's on corners and the occasional bullnose archway.

Will the 847 work with metal bead?


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## 37chambers (Oct 5, 2013)

37chambers said:


> I would like to chime in this thread on the way we do our angles. Many of you make think I am nuts doing it this way. Tape with zook, roll, glaze with 3'' columbia head. First coat on angles 2.5'' drywall master bone head ran with 7'' columbia angle box. Second coat on angles 3.5'' bone head again behind the angle box. Yes we 2 coat our angles. Its an extra step yes, however it makes a beautiful angle and eliminates A LOT of sanding and I never have touch ups in my angles doing it this way. I have found the 2 coat method only works if you use the angle box. Any other method of angles tube, mudrunner etc leaves more mud than the angle box eliminating the need for 2 coats on the angles, but its a lot more sanding and touch ups in my experience. I have found the amount of sanding/touch ups the 2 coat method eliminates far out weighs the the extra mud/time the second coat on angles takes. Not to mention I can haul A$$ on an angle box.


I would like to add to this post. A couple other advantages I have found to the 2 coat method. Main thing I like is 3 ways. Each coat including the tape coat obviously requires wiping the 3 ways. Because the angle box puts such a thin coat of mud on it sets up quite fast as well, making the 3 ways nice as easy to wipe. Because I do 2 coats+ tape coat, my 3 ways get wiped 3 times. I can just get them clean, pointy, and touch up free this way. My new helper who worked for another taper for 5 years before he started with me said he couldn't believe how much easier my angles/3 ways were to sand than what he was used too. And again no touch ups! I carefully poll sand the edges of all my angles with trim-tex widow sander 220 grit paper then a couple swipes and with a sponge and a light and the angle is done. No "cutting" a line down the apex like you have to using a can-am tin flusher as the angle head leaves a square corner before sanding. And in my opinion they look so much better than a can-am'd angle before and after sanding. My crew and customers agree. I have tried every method of angles including apla-tech. Every kind of angle head and tin flusher combo. From my experience angle box>all as far as quality.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

37chambers said:


> I would like to chime in this thread on the way we do our angles. Many of you make think I am nuts doing it this way. Tape with zook, roll, glaze with 3'' columbia head. First coat on angles 2.5'' drywall master bone head ran with 7'' columbia angle box. Second coat on angles 3.5'' bone head again behind the angle box. Yes we 2 coat our angles. Its an extra step yes, however it makes a beautiful angle and eliminates A LOT of sanding and I never have touch ups in my angles doing it this way. I have found the 2 coat method only works if you use the angle box. Any other method of angles tube, mudrunner etc leaves more mud than the angle box eliminating the need for 2 coats on the angles, but its a lot more sanding and touch ups in my experience. I have found the amount of sanding/touch ups the 2 coat method eliminates far out weighs the the extra mud/time the second coat on angles takes. Not to mention I can haul A$$ on an angle box.


 I like the idea of 3 coats. But wouldn't it be better to glaze with a 2.5", first coat with a 3" and second coat angles with a 3.5"?


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## 37chambers (Oct 5, 2013)

endo_alley said:


> I like the idea of 3 coats. But wouldn't it be better to glaze with a 2.5", first coat with a 3" and second coat angles with a 3.5"?


I tried it that way. kinda makes since huh? With the amount of mud my zook leaves a 3 flush's way better than a 2.5 on tape day. 2.5 squirts excess mud out the side of the head which i have to go clean up after. the 3 doesn't do this. On day 2 or first coat on angles the 2.5 glides nice on top of the 3'' tape coat and the angle box is nice and easy to push with a 2.5. After a rough sand of course. I have found the 2.5 flush's better than my 3'' behind my friends columbia zook mines TT. I think it depends on how much mud you zook pushes out will determine what size of heads you want to use and in what order. Any order you choose will work. I find the best results with this system based on the tools I own. It may differ for you. Also on smaller jobs were I use my tube/applicator to tape angles the 3'' for the tape coat is the only way to go as there is more mud in the corner taping this way compaired to a zook and flushing with the 2.5 makes a mess.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

No problems with a 2.5" Columbia


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## Justa Hick (Nov 23, 2008)

after you run the roller to square and swinish in the angle, then put your head on the angle finishing box or mud runner, not a plain stick. it will fill in with extra mud in the dry spots and deep nail dents then. Yes use the finish box on tape and finish coat. Just use two different size heads in any order that works for you. running the larger one can bury the edge of the smaller one if the walls is square. your gonna get some edges to wipe/sand off. Life is like that.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

Corey The Taper said:


> The tin head is good for taping but im getting sick and tired of using the tube to put mud on corners then flushing with the 3.5 I shouldve bought the corner box and mechanicals instead. also flushing is kind of a mess no matter what I do all I hear is globs of mud hitting the floor. Think im going to buy a corner box and mechanicals next seems so much faster then tube and flushers. Next is deciding on mudrunner or corner box


Mudrunner, hands down, best tool ever


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

endo_alley said:


> I like the idea of 3 coats. But wouldn't it be better to glaze with a 2.5", first coat with a 3" and second coat angles with a 3.5"?


Been doing it that way for years. I get the best angles ever. Tape in with Columbia 2.5, then a col3" on mudrunner and top with 3.5 on mudrunner, great system. Tried to top with a tapeworm 4", but I just cannot make it work. My mate swears by it.


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## drywallninja (Apr 28, 2013)

If your angle heads are adjusted properly, there is no reason to run angles 3 times. 
At that point all you're doing is building up the angles to where you're creating a valley where the mud meets the paper.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

croozer said:


> Been doing it that way for years. I get the best angles ever. Tape in with Columbia 2.5, then a col3" on mudrunner and top with 3.5 on mudrunner, great system. Tried to top with a tapeworm 4", but I just cannot make it work. My mate swears by it.


What issues are you having with the 4" head.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

fr8train said:


> What issues are you having with the 4" head.


It seem un-balanced, in that it "falls'" forward and lifts off the angle when I apply a little force to drive it along. I can do the drops ok, but the top angle is a nightmare for me. The head seems to be too skinny for how wide it is. If you look at most angle heads, they are almost square in shape, where the tape worm is definitely rectangular in appearance. Somehow my mate uses his and gets great angles, but for some reason. I can't get it to skim along the angles like my Columbia heads do.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

drywallninja said:


> If your angle heads are adjusted properly, there is no reason to run angles 3 times.
> At that point all you're doing is building up the angles to where you're creating a valley where the mud meets the paper.


I personally wont do a two coat system anymore. When I first started using tools, I did because that's how most people say they did them. What I found was that the frames and board here in NZ have far too many discrepancies in them that can and do show up through the two coat system. Granted, even now, I find myself saying that the angles don't need a top coat, but I know what happens when they are sanded with only two coat. The third coat is very quick and easy to apply and when sanded I have never had anything but compliments on them. Just beautiful. The other problem we have here are psychopathic painters and owners that seem hell bent on destroying your business by just being over the top pedantic goons about everything. Not all mind you, but enough. My way works for me and gives great results. If anyone can get similar results using two coats, well, good luck to them.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Check the adjustment of the head. There may be too much rock. The amount of rock determines the amount of mud, more rock = more mud left in the angle. Is the head you use before it leaving anything for this head to snag?


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

I was about to say the same, more than likely an adjustment thing unless it has a bent frame, they only need to be a flysh!t out of adjustment to make them nightmarish to run.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Croozers right about the tapeworm head, Its quite big and clumsy, I thought it was good when I started using one, They are set very well from factory but the wide narrow shape and I found the wire holder wasn't strong enough so eventually it just flops about on the mudrunner and becomes a bit of a hassel, Level 5 made a 4 inch that was much superior in design, It was bigger and more square, And had a real clip and levers for adjusting the spring tension but they don't seem available anymore, They were on all wall for a very short time, I got one, But after pms with buck about how he does his angles im hooked on that way now so sold on the big level 5 head.

And bucks way is tape 2.5 inch head, Then add some mud and swipe with 3.5 flusher. That puts in more mud than an anglehead, Then it presses it down removing any bubbles and wont scratch or drag any trash, Leaves a little mud in the corner which covers any tape then its just a few easy swipes either with a flex edge or a big sanding block, Mint finish every time, it really is, with just two coats, Its very simple, Sounds like your getting a real hard time with over the top fussiness there croozer.

I usually add some mud with a cp and head, Or ices way with no head, Or I have even used the runner to add mud with a head on some high stuff then swipe with the 3.5 flusher, I just love the light fast feel of the flusher on the pole, You can get away with more sometimes like this, And you don't need to get the pump out. Once I missed a long corner in a garage on tape coat and spotted it on finish coat, So just added some mud, Swiped it out, added some tape, flushed it again to set it, Swiped over it again to cover it, Finished the rest of the house then came back to it, Added some mud again and swiped, Left it for the weekend and it dryed up and worked well.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Another thing i should mention is anglehead sizes, I don't know what Columbia is like but Dms 3.5 is really a 3.3, And Level 5s 3.5 I have from years ago is actually more like a 3.7, Its not far off a 4, And mine worked perfect from new so if your looking for a head bigger than the so called 3.5 consider level 5s 3.5, That's much nicer to run on a mudrunner than the 4 inch heads, Also bucks corner system its not really important if your 2.5 head not set super perfect as the flusher sorts everything, And flushers cheaper, requires no maintanence or matter if its dropped.

Unless of course if level 5 has updated and changed there anglehead sizes.


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## mld (Jul 2, 2012)

What brands flusher ya using these days, Caz?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi Mld, I have a 2.5 can am I don't use, Quite messy, A 3 tapepro I seldom use but that's good for ices mud bead system for taping and a 3.5 can am that i mostly use, Nice flusher I really like it, Got a new one sitting there as well, Be interesting to try a Columbia and see what that's like.

Buck said he got sick of moaning painters about the corners so on one job did a few wardrobes all different ways they could do a corner and told the painters to pick the best one......................and they choose the corner done they way he told me, Perfect they said..............So from that day on he did it that way..................I tried all the corners ways I could to............This is the way I have found works best for me as well but each to there own for sure, You have to do what suits you at the end of the day.

You can add mud lightly thicker than a mudrunner or hockey stick can too so that also makes a difference.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

There is about 6mm difference between the Dm and the Level 5, 3.5 anglehead and the can am flusher is in between that. The 4 inch heads where about 6mm again from the level 5, 3.5. 

Its only 6mm but its a surprising difference, The 6mm extra on the 4 inch heads was a bit much but really good on the level five, The 6mm missing off the dm makes that run different as well, Its a bit of a dog that dm, Ive never had it running nice but also haven't played about trying to set blades much either.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Here is the Level 5 four inch anglehead, It is a far superior design than the tapeworm 4, But I don't think its available anymore so I don't know how you could get another blade if you chipped it, I think the top and side blades are the same.

I sold it, I needed a scope for a rifle I got so you know how it goes :whistling2:...................Besides.............I still have the Level 5 3.5 if I ever wanted to :thumbsup:

PS I got a Redfeild scope, American made, Joe would be so proud.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks all for the input, all taken onboard. When I run the tapeworm on the drops, the results are perfect, which says to me that the head is set right and the preceeding coat is also right. I spoke to my mate about how he is running his tapeworm, and my problems. He told me that he had the exact same hassles using his until he changed mud from the brand we are both using(were?) to a different brand. Don't know if I will persist with it as I am very happy with the results my system is achieving as is. Once again, thanks for the replies. Stay smooth.


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