# Thinking of trying hawk and trowel



## Oldtimer (May 6, 2015)

Have only tried using a hawk and trowel for coating once, did not go too well. Had a hard time getting the mud off the hawk and onto the trowel. Ended up with some mud on the floor  What would you recommend for a trowel? Curved, straight, length? Are you using a curved for certain applications and a straight for another? Was thinking of using it mostly for corner bead and maybe butt joints.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I used a hawk and trowel for everything for 10 years, Didn't even know there was such a thing as curved trowel till I started on here, Still never seen one and I just use them now for beads and butts oldtimer.

Like all the tools mud thickness is the key, Usually thicker but its really quite easy, I can only wipe down and lightly coat things with knifes which I do use a lot now but anything bigger and out comes the H&T


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

I used a H &T for many years before boxes. 11 1/2 inch flat trowel for bead. I use half the length for first coat, two thirds for second coat and the full length for the final coat.

Flats were second coated with a 10" curved trowel and toped with a 11 1/2 inch "bowed" trowel, that thing is still sweet.

Butts were always doubled up with the flat trowel.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Think I have about 8 dif trowels!! Every 1 marshaltown!
Got curved flat and very old!
Every1 has its place cause I hate knives!:thumbsup:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

"I'm thinking I'll never touch a hawk and trowel again" was my thought 15 yrs ago.

Why would anyone want to return to a method that's inferior to interior finishing of drywall when there is better ways . My rotators cuff, trowel hand or elbow, hawk hand, would have never allowed me to apply the amount of mud I have over the years without being a problem. 

I recommend you stay clear of this tools if your going to drywall finish for any length of time.


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

While I know hawk and trowel are used in drywall I have never seen anyone use one in my lifetime here on the West coast. Ames tools have been used as long as I can remember (1972). The only trade I've seen hawk and trowel is plasterers (exterior Stucco). It is my understanding that drywall took over interior finish from plasterers because it was cheaper even though it takes more steps than plaster.


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## Oldtimer (May 6, 2015)

Thanks for the info guys! Been a pan and knife guy for many years and have always been curious about the difference in coating between knife and trowel. One of the senior guys on a crew I worked with (20 years ago) could load a corner bead with 2 strokes, one from the bottom up and then top down. He could load and feather at the same time. Thought that was pretty amazing. 

I'll see if I can hunt down my old trowel and post a pic.


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## Oldtimer (May 6, 2015)

Found my hawk and trowel. 10 inch Marshaltown. 

View attachment 23466


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Found my hawk and trowel. 10 inch Marshaltown.
> 
> View attachment 23466



If your a pan and knife guy you'll hate the feel of it. Keep with it for a couple years tho and you'll like the feel.

Curry flat trowell 5x12


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

I like Trowel


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

It's a pleasure watching someone coat drywall who's good with a trowel.

But I've worked with guys who had to switch from H&T because of problems like Mudstar mentioned. However, that took some years to happen - maybe longer than Oldtimer will continue to work at this?

I've also worked with guys who sometimes couldn't get their knife hand to let go of their steering wheel, because their hand seizes onto it. My knife hand can seize some - mostly from chain sawing damage in the past, that knifing creates problems for.

Best solution I've found till now without having to learn H&T is offset knives. Hand can stiffen a bit, but it doesn't seize anymore, and doesn't ache as much.

Thin the mud back from what you're normally used to working with and you can work faster and get a smoother finish with them than you can with regular knives, and with less hand stress, hand pain.

One Canadian distributor: http://www.westtechtools.com/advanceoffsetdrywallknife8.aspx


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## Oldtimer (May 6, 2015)

JustMe said:


> It's a pleasure watching someone coat drywall who's good with a trowel.
> 
> But I've worked with guys who had to switch from H&T because of problems like Mudstar mentioned. However, that took some years to happen - maybe longer than Oldtimer will continue to work at this?
> 
> ...


 Have seen those offset knives but have yet to try one. Thanks for the link JustMe  I have problems with my knife hand (right) index finger sometimes so thinking a trowel might give me a break from that. Also the changing position of holding the hawk compared to a mud pan might also relieve some stress on my left arm. The only thing I think I'd miss if I switched to a trowel from knife is the extra reach I can get from a knife compared to a trowel. Will be more bench work with trowel. Might have ten years left in me for this work, we'll see how it goes I guess. It gets harder on the body the older I get


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Welcome, OT.

I hear you on the index finger. I've taped my middle finger to it at times, just to give the index a break. We need an index finger power assist tool. Some manufacturer should get on that. 

A Youtube H&T training video that 2buck put out a few years ago, for some tips you might not have seen before. Check out the finger positioning that he demonstrates. There's also more of his H&T vids on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U5vW-0R7ZI


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Mudslingr doing butt joints with H&T. He also has a # of videos on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ESfUJ7OgU


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## Wimpy65 (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Oldtimer,

I'm a P&K guy (that dabbles in a little H&T work), so I can't really offer advice on the use of the H&T. However, I did recently purchase an offset knife. It seems to be a happy medium between the H&T and the P&K.

I agree with JustMe, you may want to try the offset knives. I only have a Sheetrock 8" one so far, but I really like it. It's great for coating corner beads because the blade is quite stiff. I've also found I hold it differently than a regular knife, so that might help with some problems associated with all the repetition in our job.


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## Oldtimer (May 6, 2015)

:thumbsup:Some great vids!! Useful tips for me. THANKS!! :thumbup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Wimpy65 said:


> I agree with JustMe, you may want to try the offset knives. I only have a Sheetrock 8" one so far, but I really like it. It's great for coating corner beads because the blade is quite stiff.


Just an fyi for whoever: Since Sheetrock doesn't make offsets anymore, I only know of Advance making them now. Advance's blades aren't as stiff, but now that I'm used to using thinner mud with them - thinner so they don't have the 'bouncies' when coating, due to less torque being put on the blades because of their design - I find the 10 & 12" to work fine. Key I found is to keep thinning the mud back till they do work fine.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

JustMe said:


> Just an fyi for whoever: Since Sheetrock doesn't make offsets anymore, I only know of Advance making them now.


Maybe I should correct that. Is Sheetrock back making offset knives? Listed under All-Wall's 'new items': http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/New-Drywall-Tools/Sheetrock-Offset-Taping-Knife.html


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Cool I better order some more 8" before they disappear again


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

saskataper said:


> Cool I better order some more 8" before they disappear again


I'm thinking maybe a 10 & 12, to compare with my Advance. I'm wondering if there's a Sheetrock dealer in Canada who'll be carrying them, though, rather than ordering from the U.S. Maybe I'll ask CSR on here, since they're being called the All-Wall of Canada.


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## Mark in Montreal (Aug 29, 2016)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Oldtimer said:
> 
> 
> > Found my hawk and trowel. 10 inch Marshaltown.
> ...


Have to agree, used Marshalltowns for years, picked up a curry and it is just that much better. My sons have tried it and agree, but they still use their Mtown


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

When I was in the union there were a lot of hawk and trowel guys. I used one for the first pass over corner bead and flats for a while. The regular trowel guys would have a curved blade trowel for fill coat. They would let the trowel break in before it was their favorite. And they would let the corners wear in a little so the trowel had a slight belly in the middle. That way when they laid the trowel flat, the curve blade allowed it to leave a lot of mud. When they held the blade more square to the wall, they could pull some of the mud out.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

I bought one curved trowel, and didn't like it at all. I'm used to flat trowels, they seem to have better control. 

Recently I got a Nela flex trowel, 4.3 x 12. Best new trowel I have ever used. Corners are rounded a bit, but still leaves a line as ant new trowel would. Very impressed on how flat it leaves the mud.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

Glad you like it it's a nice trowel,... I normally just have a bucket by my side a 8 or 6 inch and a trowel 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pytlik86 (Sep 3, 2016)

anyone who got a video, showing H&T doing flat and butt's in the same video ?


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## keke (Mar 7, 2012)

Wimpy65 said:


> I only have a Sheetrock 8" one so far, but I really like it. It's great for coating corner beads because the blade is quite stiff. I've also found I hold it differently than a regular knife, so that might help with some problems associated with all the repetition in our job.


i love my offsets and they works perfectly for stand ups and butts too....also found that the offsets are the best knives that work the best with the box ..... but for finish coat and ceiling work always i use H&T......never used Sheetrock but stiff blade for the knife is not my type


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

Thinking of getting one. 

https://www.facebook.com/trowelwalletsaustrailia/posts/1368526596510591


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