# Butt Joint Tool



## 2buckcanuck

Got this link over at T&J, Amestaper put it up:thumbsup:

Wondering what you guys think, he's kind of on to something but.......

http://www.rebatemate.com.au/index.php?pg=2

Hit the tab where it says tv spot, the inventer made a video:yes:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Got this link over at T&J, Amestaper put it up:thumbsup:
> 
> Wondering what you guys think, he's kind of on to something but.......
> 
> http://www.rebatemate.com.au/index.php?pg=2
> 
> Hit the tab where it says tv spot, the inventer made a video:yes:


It brings to mind the possibility for failure that occurs on "gooey ducks". You rejoin the paper with glue or whatever...right? But, what happens at the very edge of the cut where the board and new cut meet? Can you get glue _all_ the way in there? Are you inviting blisters at the interior edges of the rebate? I suppose that's not a problem if you use a good sturdy set mud and it's deep enough to prevent the blister from coming through paint. Definitely on to something though.....I'd love the ability to make a recess everywhere. You know where else this tool would work? On the backside of the board........for tub flanges. Then you just cut the paper right off:thumbsup:


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## smisner50s

i think its pretty cool..i like


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> It brings to mind the possibility for failure that occurs on "gooey ducks". You rejoin the paper with glue or whatever...right? But, what happens at the very edge of the cut where the board and new cut meet? Can you get glue _all_ the way in there? Are you inviting blisters at the interior edges of the rebate? I suppose that's not a problem if you use a good sturdy set mud and it's deep enough to prevent the blister from coming through paint. Definitely on to something though.....I'd love the ability to make a recess everywhere. You know where else this tool would work? On the backside of the board........for tub flanges. Then you just cut the paper right off:thumbsup:


I was thinking a long that line of cutting the back of the board, that would make it recess:yes: but when he glued the paper back on I was WTF. I guess it's b/c the screws would not hold well without the paper put back on, and your right, increases the chance for blisters.

The next thing would be, would the rockers use it, but he is onto something.......... I think:blink:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> I was thinking a long that line of cutting the back of the board, that would make it recess:yes: but when he glued the paper back on I was WTF. I guess it's b/c the screws would not hold well without the paper put back on, and your right, increases the chance for blisters.
> 
> The next thing would be, would the rockers use it, but he is onto something.......... I think:blink:


I spent some time thinking about a tool that would hog out the back of the board a while back...but I realized if you're only using it for showers and tubs, that's a lot of extra work to break out that tool, and a vacuum (because it's going to make router dust look like a walk in the park) for 5 minutes worth of work. Especially when you can vario the flange, or use the new shower bead. Someone will figure out a way to make a recess on demand:whistling2:


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## E.K Taper

Great idea but I'm doubtful it would catch on with the boarders. The lazy ba***rds dont care much for the job they leave for the tapers at the best of times:furious:


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## fr8train

wouldn't it just be faster to hang some strips of luan on the framing for the tub? That's what we do, let's the board come down over the flange, all you need to do it flat tape.:thumbsup: That vid was pretty slick though!


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## Drywall_King

2buckcanuck said:


> Got this link over at T&J, Amestaper put it up:thumbsup:
> 
> Wondering what you guys think, he's kind of on to something but.......
> 
> http://www.rebatemate.com.au/index.php?pg=2
> 
> Hit the tab where it says tv spot, the inventer made a video:yes:


 
this tool is good in Australia 2 buck but the real pros just use a grinder... they do a good job at grinding villa board (Not in america) really nice to have the villa board grinded cause most aussies only go 10 inches wide... when running a box they do a 8" 10" in Canada we used to run a 10" 12" ... Allthough i think canada and US have the best finish ... Ohh yeah ask me about the 2 meter rule ... cheers


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## Brian S

*"Ohh yeah ask me about the 2 meter rule"*


Oh go on then "what's the 2 metre rule"


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## 2buckcanuck

Brian S said:


> *"Ohh yeah ask me about the 2 meter rule"*
> 
> 
> Oh go on then "what's the 2 metre rule"


My bet is you stand back from the wall 2 meters,(6'6") and if you don't see nothing, it's a pass


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> My bet is you stand back from the wall 2 meters,(6'6") and if you don't see nothing, it's a pass


Sweet....looks like I won't be doing any more work for THAT client.:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> Sweet....looks like I won't be doing any more work for THAT client.:whistling2:


I'm guessing that b/c the north American union (IUPAT) has a standard of 5 feet back from a wall under normal lighting conditions. (what ever that is).

Even if your not union, it's good to know what some of their standards are. That way, when ever you deal with a client who wants Taj Mahal work. You can tell them to go take off eh'

No one really enforces it or goes by it, it just a rule for those hard to deal with customers, those anal or Napoleonic types:furious:


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> No one really enforces it or goes by it, it just a rule for those hard to deal with customers, those anal or Napoleonic types:furious:


Had to use it awhile ago with an architect for a university. She was getting magnifying glass over zealous.


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> I'm guessing that b/c the north American union (IUPAT) has a standard of 5 feet back from a wall under normal lighting conditions. (what ever that is).
> 
> Even if your not union, it's good to know what some of their standards are. That way, when ever you deal with a client who wants Taj Mahal work. You can tell them to go take off eh'
> 
> No one really enforces it or goes by it, it just a rule for those hard to deal with customers, those anal or Napoleonic types:furious:


I understand that it's more for clients who want to nitpick a job to death, and it's a means of protection for the finishers....but we all know "6 ft. back from the wall in lighting provided by the contractor" isn't an acceptable finish...at least if you want to keep working in the trade.

For instance, I had to sub out the taping on a basement last week, as well as the spray because I was wrapped up in a plaster fix. I went in to skip trowel the lids, and was a little horrified at the number of scratches and flaws I saw....so far the builder hasn't said anything, but it shows that the taper was in a hurry and didn't use a light....in a basement......with no lights. Seriously? The builder is a finish carpenter, so I KNOW he's got an eye for fine detail, and he's expressed that he doesn't say anything, just will call someone else the next time if the job is not up to snuff. We'll see how it plays out, but you certainly don't want to start fixing things _after _the walls have been sprayed. Ugh....that'll learn me to keep a closer eye.:detective:


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## moore

Tell the h/o to wait 2 years THEN shine a light across the walls ,,and ceilings.:blink::blink::blink:[[ after wood warps and twist ]] ,,,OH ,, but then ,,
That's our fault,,, You hung it wrong,,, you used the wrong compound,,you used paper tape,, you should have used that mesh stuff.. yeah ,, you ****ed my house up ...


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## SlimPickins

moore said:


> Tell the h/o to wait 2 years THEN shine a light across the walls ,,and ceilings.:blink::blink:[[ after wood warps and twist ]] ,,,OH ,, but then ,,
> That's our fault,,, You hung it wrong,,, you used the wrong compound,,you used paper tape,, you should have used that mesh stuff.. yeah ,, you ****ed my house up ...


As long as they do it at least one day after a year is up I'm good:thumbsup: I'm not going to warrant anything over a year, if you didn't notice that window that I hung over by then.....tough luck! :laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> I understand that it's more for clients who want to nitpick a job to death, and it's a means of protection for the finishers....but we all know "6 ft. back from the wall in lighting provided by the contractor" isn't an acceptable finish...at least if you want to keep working in the trade.
> 
> For instance, I had to sub out the taping on a basement last week, as well as the spray because I was wrapped up in a plaster fix. I went in to skip trowel the lids, and was a little horrified at the number of scratches and flaws I saw....so far the builder hasn't said anything, but it shows that the taper was in a hurry and didn't use a light....in a basement......with no lights. Seriously? The builder is a finish carpenter, so I KNOW he's got an eye for fine detail, and he's expressed that he doesn't say anything, just will call someone else the next time if the job is not up to snuff. We'll see how it plays out, but you certainly don't want to start fixing things _after _the walls have been sprayed. Ugh....that'll learn me to keep a closer eye.:detective:


Slim,Slim,Slim, your going to turn me into a fast typer.

It's the minimal standard, and no one really uses it as I said. But there are tapers who 's work will fail that minimal standard, you know, the ones who have joints you would trip over if they were on the floor. Or that restaurant you manage to eat lunch at, has the worst tape job in the world,,, What is it with restaurants, they always have the worst tape jobs:blink:

I'm sure everyone on this site does the best job they can do, they pay attention to detail, check with a light, and truly care about their work.But you run across that one jerk once a year, who will find 3 or 4 spots on a 10,000 sq ft job and go

"Aren't you going to fix this right here" ????
and your like "what ?"
Their like "this right here !!!"
so you walk up to the spot, put your face up near it, and say "I don't see nothing" (b/c there is nothing !!!!!!!!):furious:
Then they say "are you F'n blind !!!!!"
So you put your glasses on and say "Sorry, still don't see nothing"

That's when you enforce the 5 foot minimum :yes:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Slim,Slim,Slim, your going to turn me into a fast typer.
> 
> It's the minimal standard, and no one really uses it as I said. But there are tapers who 's work will fail that minimal standard, you know, the ones who have joints you would trip over if they were on the floor. Or that restaurant you manage to eat lunch at, has the worst tape job in the world,,, What is it with restaurants, they always have the worst tape jobs:blink:
> 
> I'm sure everyone on this site does the best job they can do, they pay attention to detail, check with a light, and truly care about their work.But you run across that one jerk once a year, who will find 3 or 4 spots on a 10,000 sq ft job and go
> 
> "Aren't you going to fix this right here" ????
> and your like "what ?"
> Their like "this right here !!!"
> so you walk up to the spot, put your face up near it, and say "I don't see nothing" (b/c there is nothing !!!!!!!!):furious:
> Then they say "are you F'n blind !!!!!"
> So you put your glasses on and say "Sorry, still don't see nothing"
> 
> That's when you enforce the 5 foot minimum :yes:


Dude! I am in total agreement! However...I don't know everything, but I bet there are guys who live by the 5 ft. rule :yes: Or, they have bad eyesight nline2long:


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> Dude! I am in total agreement! However...I don't know everything, but I bet there are guys who live by the 5 ft. rule :yes: Or, they have bad eyesight nline2long:


Oh well, just my guess on what drywall_kings 2 meter rule is, your bored tonight slim, whats your guess:thumbup:


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh well, just my guess on what drywall_kings 2 meter rule is, your bored tonight slim, whats your guess:thumbup:


Can you tell?:whistling2: My wife and kids have been gone for 10 days now, and I'm counting the minutes until I get on a plane myself and go see them tomorrow:thumbup: My first thought was that anything over 2 meters doesn't get a second coat :laughing: ...but that's just ridiculous.


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## VANMAN

SlimPickins said:


> Can you tell?:whistling2: My wife and kids have been gone for 10 days now, and I'm counting the minutes until I get on a plane myself and go see them tomorrow:thumbup: My first thought was that anything over 2 meters doesn't get a second coat :laughing: ...but that's just ridiculous.


 Why can't plasterboard makers not make a bevele in the back of the board so when the butt is screwed it pulls it in a little bit??
That would solve a lot of problems for us guys!!:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins

VANMAN said:


> Why can't plasterboard makers not make a bevele in the back of the board so when the butt is screwed it pulls it in a little bit??
> That would solve a lot of problems for us guys!!:thumbsup:


I think the primary reason they don't do anything to the butt ends is because that's where you need to cut them...any tool that works on a butt is going to have be used post cutting. Hmmm.....maybe I should make my millions by being the guy that figures out the butt-into-recess problem.....


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## 2buckcanuck

SlimPickins said:


> I think the primary reason they don't do anything to the butt ends is because that's where you need to cut them...any tool that works on a butt is going to have be used post cutting. Hmmm.....maybe I should make my millions by being the guy that figures out the butt-into-recess problem.....


Here's a video on how drywall is made, so put your thinking cap on.:whistling2:

And I hope your not a cowboy from Montana Slim, you won't like their last comment


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## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> Here's a video on how drywall is made, so put your thinking cap on.:whistling2:
> 
> And I hope your not a cowboy from Montana Slim, you won't like their last comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmbk8Pfau0I


:laughing: Looks like I dodged the bullet on that one pardner!

The rolled edge trade secret deal....they wouldn't want us to see how they're f*&%ing up the recesses these days now would they.....High shoulders, recess on the back, recess too hollow, recess too brittle....good lord the list goes on and on!:blink:


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## chris

are you talking about 1/2 " board,that stuff is gettin pretty poor these days.Back when we did a lot of houses we would brownside the shower backs and sides with the bevel covering flange ,thus making drywall lay flat. Never understood why guys routered that out around flange then hot mud/tape. Also if doing a good size room with frp you can hang drywall backwards(brownside)and drywall lays flat,no need to fill recess


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## gazman

I have just had an opportunity to try the Rebate Mate and I have to say that they are the easiest butt joins that I have ever coated. :thumbup::thumbup:
http://www.wallboardtools.com.au/news.htm#rebate
This tool will change the way that we do butt joins. For me it is ideal as we hang and tape, so I dont have to rely on a hanger to get with the program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8ZP-rDNGM&feature=youtu.be

Here is a pic of a taped join. I was going to call it a butt join but I guess that it is not really a butt any more.


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## Kiwiman

gazman said:


> I have just had an opportunity to try the Rebate Mate and I have to say that they are the easiest butt joins that I have ever coated. :thumbup::thumbup:
> http://www.wallboardtools.com.au/news.htm#rebate
> This tool will change the way that we do butt joins. For me it is ideal as we hang and tape, so I dont have to rely on a hanger to get with the program.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8ZP-rDNGM&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Here is a pic of a taped join. I was going to call it a butt join but I guess that it is not really a butt any more.


 Hey Gaz, does it take long to rebate and glue the edge? I presume it would be quicker to tape and finish once it's up.


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## gazman

No it doesnt take long at all. Our sheets are delivered laying down so that gives us a head start. The actual cutting and glueing of the rebate takes about 2min. We done the amount that we needed then put the sheets aside for a couple of hours for the glue to set. Definitely quicker to tape and finish. Just treat it like any join and box it.


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## Lloydnz

hi gazman did you float the butt joint and back block it or did you join it on the ceiling batton.can you tell me how much the rebate mate costs to buy in austrailia as they are not out here in new zealand yet.


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## gazman

Gday Lloydnz
I broke the join between the battens. Cleatet three short ceiling battens across the join to keep it level and then back blocked when we did the rest of the ceiling. They are only just out now,Wallboard tools is the distributor and they are around the $440.00 Au. I know that they are planning on selling to NZ asap so keep an eye out.


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## Kiwiman

I hope the idea takes off here, they should do it to the end of every sheet before it leaves the factory.


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## Bazooka-Joe

I can see this baby going over in Kustom Shack


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> I hope the idea takes off here, they should do it to the end of every sheet before it leaves the factory.


Take a long hard think about your comment kiwiman, with the drywall coming with a bevel on the ends. Think about how the rockers will install it.

I can envision already, a bevelled edge in the corner, and the cut end where the butt is. It just gives the rockers more opportunities to screw things up more:yes:


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> Take a long hard think about your comment kiwiman, with the drywall coming with a bevel on the ends. Think about how the rockers will install it.
> 
> I can envision already, a bevelled edge in the corner, and the cut end where the butt is. It just gives the rockers more opportunities to screw things up more:yes:


I hear ya man :thumbsup:


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## gazman

Here is a pic of a finished rebate mate join.


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## cazna

I wish, Looks great, Wow, a truly flat butt join, Nice work.


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## Capt-sheetrock

But the Emperor is not wearing any clothes !!!!!! :whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock

I apoligize for the above mentioned comment on the clothes of the emporor.

It seems to me,,, being an old goat and all,,,,,,

WHY are so many serious drywallers stressing over flat butt joints??????

I guess after you learn how to make em flat,,,, you forget that many folks still struggle with the issue.

Heck,,, I'm gonna get me another beer,,,, you'll argue over butts,,,,,

just be nice children!!!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I apoligize for the above mentioned comment on the clothes of the emporor.
> 
> It seems to me,,, being an old goat and all,,,,,,
> 
> WHY are so many serious drywallers stressing over flat butt joints??????
> 
> I guess after you learn how to make em flat,,,, you forget that many folks still struggle with the issue.
> 
> Heck,,, I'm gonna get me another beer,,,, you'll argue over butts,,,,,
> 
> just be nice children!!!!!!!


Can I be the 1st to start the argument over butts then

I don't really find them that big of a deal. The boxes tend to finish/build them out fine. I never put a straight edge to them to check them. I find your god given eyes can tell just by looking. Well ,,,,,, ok,,,,,,, maybe I half to put a straight edge on one, to prove to 2bjr (aka dumb arse) that I'm right,,,, so build the damn thing out:furious:

I also found to build them all equal in size BECAUSE, if you build them all out at different sizes, people begin to question. When you explain you check them with a straight edge. Then next day, some HO or GC thinks their a master of the straight edge. And you will find big circles on your walls done in pencil, with the words FILL ........ So I only fill out the ones which really need it, the really Baaaaaaaa'd ones. Bull sh1t baffles brains all the time. Keep you work looking clean and consistent in appearance, and most never question things then.

The ones I worry about more, are the short joints, the ones above windows or doors, their the ones that worry me more:yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> Can I be the 1st to start the argument over butts then
> 
> I don't really find them that big of a deal. The boxes tend to finish/build them out fine. I never put a straight edge to them to check them. I find your god given eyes can tell just by looking. Well ,,,,,, ok,,,,,,, maybe I half to put a straight edge on one, to prove to 2bjr (aka dumb arse) that I'm right,,,, so build the damn thing out:furious:
> 
> I also found to build them all equal in size BECAUSE, if you build them all out at different sizes, people begin to question. When you explain you check them with a straight edge. Then next day, some HO or GC thinks their a master of the straight edge. And you will find big circles on your walls done in pencil, with the words FILL ........ So I only fill out the ones which really need it, the really Baaaaaaaa'd ones. Bull sh1t baffles brains all the time. Keep you work looking clean and consistent in appearance, and most never question things then.
> 
> The ones I worry about more, are the short joints, the ones above windows or doors, their the ones that worry me more:yes:


I think that was the point 2buck,,, ya just run em till they are flat, and forget the rest of it.
If ya want to single them all, ya break em twixt the studs with a pieace of wood behind em for a "stich"
If your a real anal hand finisher, than ya can add two "strips" from the rock packageing (did ya know they sell drywall in "packs"of two?) to the edges of the board you found on the job, to break it twit the studs,,,,kinda like all them high priced and time-consuming butt thing-a-ma-jigga's(not to be confused with myniggas, a tottally differant animal).

But i digress


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## moore

I'm not scared of the butt joint.
The butt joint Is scared of me.......... Oh ..look here he comes with another bucket of mud ......Oh please...no moore..inch:


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## gazman

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I apoligize for the above mentioned comment on the clothes of the emporor.
> 
> It seems to me,,, being an old goat and all,,,,,,
> 
> WHY are so many serious drywallers stressing over flat butt joints??????
> 
> I guess after you learn how to make em flat,,,, you forget that many folks still struggle with the issue.
> 
> Heck,,, I'm gonna get me another beer,,,, you'll argue over butts,,,,,
> 
> just be nice children!!!!!!!


For me it is not that I stress over Butts. So far I find using the rebat mate makes the heaps quicker to coat. You just treat them like a flat because that what they become. So for me if you can get a great result "QUICKER" thats a win.


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## Bazooka-Joe

2buckcanuck said:


> Here's a video on how drywall is made, so put your thinking cap on.:whistling2:
> 
> And I hope your not a cowboy from Montana Slim, you won't like their last comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmbk8Pfau0I



so don't hire a good ole boy is the key to that vid


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## 2buckcanuck

gazman said:


> For me it is not that I stress over Butts. So far I find using the rebat mate makes the heaps quicker to coat. You just treat them like a flat because that what they become. So for me if you can get a great result "QUICKER" thats a win.


I said it on another DWT site before. That tool could be ok for the independent drywall contractor that does it all. And if I remember right , I think you said you do it all. So if it helps you save and or make more $$$$ go for it. But I think a lot of guys on here do sub work for larger DWC's , which is what I do 90% of the time. So here's a example of a conversation I had with the Big boss of the Drywall company I now work for.

I asked if they ever thought about using glue to install the drywall before, he said yes, he and some of the builders approached the drywallers/boarders/rockers/gibbers/hangers about doing it,and all they got was this









Now imagine if they said they had to "NOW" bevell the butts,,,,, and they say us tapers are the whiners


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## Kiwiman

Anyone who would put a little extra effort in by rebating all the butts shows their work ethics, and I would be telling builders use that guy..... because he gives a F#ck. 
Butts aren't too bigger deal if the frame is straight but if there were no butts at all I would be a happy man. :thumbsup:


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## cazna

Kiwiman said:


> Anyone who would put a little extra effort in by rebating all the butts shows their work ethics, and I would be telling builders use that guy..... because he gives a F#ck.
> Butts aren't too bigger deal if the frame is straight but if there were no butts at all I would be a happy man. :thumbsup:


That makes too of us, Imagine just being able to box a butt like a tapered flat, Awsome, The problem i most have with butts is 50% of them are screwed up, Most builders here just do not get how to set one up and backblock it so guess who get the honour then, Yeah im the mug climbing up into the ceiling space moving batts etc backblocking and setting them up, All they do is put a sheet up, Put a swirl of wallboard glue on a backblock piece of board, put that up, then fit the next ceiling sheet, That does nothing. Thats what they do to some walls as well, If they could run a batten, Do the rebate mate, then fit the sheets i think they just might understand that???? Maybe????? If they do actually understand how to do it then they shove the butt up so far it takes so much mud and coats its crazy  Or even those butt boards would be great, PLEASE send some to NZ, PLEASE,HELP,SOS,MAYDAY.


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## Capt-sheetrock

To re-iterate an technique that is ALWAYS ignored. 

I carry a small power planer in my tool box. If I want a recessed butt joint,, i just run the planer up it a time or two, till its LESS than level with the adjoining studs. Takes like 3 minutes, makes a perfect "single" butt joint, EVERYTIME. 

You don't have to buy or use special wierd stuff to get a butt joint flat.

nuff said.


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## fr8train

Capt-sheetrock said:


> To re-iterate an technique that is ALWAYS ignored.
> 
> I carry a small power planer in my tool box. If I want a recessed butt joint,, i just run the planer up it a time or two, till its LESS than level with the adjoining studs. Takes like 3 minutes, makes a perfect "single" butt joint, EVERYTIME.
> 
> You don't have to buy or use special wierd stuff to get a butt joint flat.
> 
> nuff said.


 To my eye, that's all the Rebate Mate is.just has a guide or something to keep it under the face paper.


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## moore

I asked if they ever thought about using glue to install the drywall before, he said yes, he and some of the builders approached the drywallers/boarders/rockers/gibbers/hangers about doing it,and all they got was this











That's a shame.


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## Capt-sheetrock

fr8train said:


> To my eye, that's all the Rebate Mate is.just has a guide or something to keep it under the face paper.


Say what????? 

I'm talking about facing the stud,,, not the drywall.


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## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> I asked if they ever thought about using glue to install the drywall before, he said yes, he and some of the builders approached the drywallers/boarders/rockers/gibbers/hangers about doing it,and all they got was this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a shame.


Don't look know, but your hangers forgot to screw the walls off !!!!!:thumbup:


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## fr8train

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Say what?????
> 
> I'm talking about facing the stud,,, not the drywall.


LOL sorry Capt, my bad!:thumbup:


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## moore

''Or even those butt boards would be great, PLEASE send some to NZ, PLEASE,HELP,SOS,MAYDAY.''


They work pretty,,pretty,,good gazna ....


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## fenez

Capt-sheetrock said:


> To re-iterate an technique that is ALWAYS ignored.
> 
> I carry a small power planer in my tool box. If I want a recessed butt joint,, i just run the planer up it a time or two, till its LESS than level with the adjoining studs. Takes like 3 minutes, makes a perfect "single" butt joint, EVERYTIME.
> 
> You don't have to buy or use special wierd stuff to get a butt joint flat.
> 
> nuff said.


Bingo! thats the quickest best way to do it. There is no need to try and reinvent the trade every 5 minutes.


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## 2buckcanuck

fenez said:


> Bingo! thats the quickest best way to do it. There is no need to try and reinvent the trade every 5 minutes.


Yes it is, but there are some of us that live in colder climates where there is poly/plastic on all of the exterior walls and ceilings. So other methods half to be implemented there, for those that want to recess their butts.


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> Yes it is, but there are some of us that live in colder climates where there is poly/plastic on all of the exterior walls and ceilings. So other methods half to be implemented there, for those that want to recess their butts.


Funny bout that,,,, we used to see plastic on the walls alot here too, back in like the late 70's. They gave it up tho after they figured out that it creates a water problem. If your gonna use a product the traps water, either in or out, you are asking for problems. The house needs to be sealed, and the walls need to "breathe". Right or wrong,,, thats the way it is.

PS, in the them days, we would just knife the plastic, dress the stud, and then hang the board. I know,,, I ain't right, okay???? Truth is, most of the time we would just strip the plastic and throw it in the dumpster,,, seeing as they balled it all up in the corner and left about 4" hanging over all the edges. Yes we had Mexican insulators even back then,,,, but dern, wern't they quick !!!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Funny bout that,,,, we used to see plastic on the walls alot here too, back in like the late 70's. They gave it up tho after they figured out that it creates a water problem. If your gonna use a product the traps water, either in or out, you are asking for problems. The house needs to be sealed, and the walls need to "breathe". Right or wrong,,, thats the way it is.
> 
> PS, in the them days, we would just knife the plastic, dress the stud, and then hang the board. I know,,, I ain't right, okay???? Truth is, most of the time we would just strip the plastic and throw it in the dumpster,,, seeing as they balled it all up in the corner and left about 4" hanging over all the edges. Yes we had Mexican insulators even back then,,,, but dern, wern't they quick !!!!!!!


Two different countries and climates, here's a little link to look at, http://www.pima.org/contentpage/ContentPage.aspx?ModuleID=8&SubModuleID=90#canada 
You don't half to read it, But you will get the idea with the map.

Up here in the winter wonderland, where santa lives, The poly is more about acting as one part wind breaker and one part heat containment. I have lived in old farm houses (and one right now) where on a cold WINDY day, you could stick a news paper against the interior of a wall, and watch the wind move the paper. We need poly here in Canuck land. And trust me, There have many codes on how it's done and how to avoid moisture issues. I could bore you with the details, but I won't


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## gazman

*Rebate mate*

Well I have been using the rebate mate for about three months now so I thought that I would give let everyone know how it is going. I know that some of you blokes thought that it was a waste of time but I am sold. I have never had a problem getting flat butts, but using this tool it has never been so quick and easy. prefill, tape, skim, (because the rebate is fairly deep so you get a bit of shrinkage) 8" box, 10" box. As I have said we do the whole job from rocking to sand so it fits our system. here are some pics. 
1: Prefilled rebate.
2: Taped.
3: 14" trowel on the finished joint.
I know that it wont rock everyones boat but it has made my life easier.


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## cdwoodcox

Give all of us an estimate of time saved on an overall job. hanging and finishing lets say a house with 40 butt joints.Or just the actual time it takes to rebate butt joint on a jobsite.


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## SlimPickins

cdwoodcox said:


> Give all of us an estimate of time saved on an overall job. hanging and finishing lets say a house with 40 butt joints.Or just the actual time it takes to rebate butt joint on a jobsite.


Also, in addition to time running the rebate-mate, could you give some details on how you run the rebate? What kind of set-up does the sheet require? And then you have to move it and let the glue dry, right?

So you have to:


set the sheet up for use with the tool (?? minutes)
use the tool (?? minutes)
glue the rebate (?? minutes)
move sheet and wait for rebate to "cure" (?? minutes)

I can see this saving time on the finishing end, but you still have to coat the butt joint. Granted, my butt joints are never "flat"........


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## gazman

To form the rebate the board needs to be laying down. This is the way our board is delivered so that part is easy. Because our sheets are 6M long we dont usualy have any more than 6 butts in a house. I can rebate them all in about 20 min. I do it in a production manner run the tool on the top sheet then slide it back then run the tool on the next sheet and so on until I cant slide the sheets back any more. Then I pull the top sheet back to the end and glue it. Then lean that sheet against the wall and glue the next one. To say how long it takes to finish the joints is harx to say because it just gets done as part of your system. We prefill with cornice cement, which can be accelerated by mixing. I prefill them first with some mud that I have given a real good stir, it has set in about 10min. So then I tape them by hand with the last of the prefill mud. Then they are treated like any other flat and boxed when the rest are. I know that some were concerned that they may bubble. Well so far I have not had this happen at all.
Hope this helps.


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## Zendik

If it doesn't increase production then its garbage.
I can see rockers doing this while trying to slam 60 sheets up.

Yeah right.
I'm sure Joe HomeRepair could use it but not production hangers.


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## Checkers

Zendik said:


> If it doesn't increase production then its garbage.
> I can see rockers doing this while trying to slam 60 sheets up.
> 
> Yeah right.
> I'm sure Joe HomeRepair could use it but not production hangers.



I'm a production hanger and I would do this on every single one of my jobs.
It's all about the finished product. Every taper in town would want to use me if I owned this tool!


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## gazman

Zendik said:


> If it doesn't increase production then its garbage.
> I can see rockers doing this while trying to slam 60 sheets up.
> 
> Yeah right.
> I'm sure Joe HomeRepair could use it but not production hangers.



Gday Zendik.
I know all about production, we hung 66 sheets yesterday and still used the rebate tool. (our sheets are 6m long so we hung 480m2 or 5166 square feet) Thats glued and screwed.
I dont think that it is fair to call something "garbage" until you have given it a fair go. This tool has changed the way that I do butts (after 30 years) so I think that you should realise that you are not the only one that knows what they are doing. I put this here because I thought that it may be helpfull not to be likened to Joe home repair.


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## moore

Zendik said:


> If it doesn't increase production then its garbage.
> I can see rockers doing this while trying to slam 60 sheets up.
> 
> Yeah right.
> I'm sure Joe HomeRepair could use it but not production hangers.


 The key word here would be SLAM.:whistling2:


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## moore

I sub out 90% of my hanging ,,the rebate would work just fine on that other10% ..:thumbsup:


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## cdwoodcox

I would like to own one. I might not use it on every job but it would definately be nice to have.
And you're lucky I would love to average 6 butts per house. I have finished some jobs where h/o have hung where I have had 6 butts on one wall.


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## moore

cdwoodcox said:


> I would like to own one. I might not use it on every job but it would definately be nice to have.
> And you're lucky I would love to average 6 butts per house. I have finished some jobs where h/o have hung where I have had 6 butts on one wall.


 OUCH !!


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## smisner50s

gazman said:


> gday zendik.
> I know all about production, we hung 66 sheets yesterday and still used the rebate tool. (our sheets are 6m long so we hung 480m2 or 5166 square feet) thats glued and screwed.
> I dont think that it is fair to call something "garbage" until you have given it a fair go. This tool has changed the way that i do butts (after 30 years) so i think that you should realise that you are not the only one that knows what they are doing. I put this here because i thought that it may be helpfull not to be likened to joe home repair.


 i think its a good tool and if i dident use butt boards on my butts i would invest in one...speed is important but so is quality


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## Kiwiman

I think whats being overlooked here is that Gaz tapes his own boarding work, so the extra time he spends rebating makes his job a lot easier and quicker when taping.


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> I think whats being overlooked here is that Gaz tapes his own boarding work, so the extra time he spends rebating makes his job a lot easier and quicker when taping.


Are you sure he does both trades, every picture I see of him on DWT, he has a fishing pole in one hand, and a beer in the other. Where does he find the time:whistling2::jester:


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## SlimPickins

gazman said:


> To form the rebate the board needs to be laying down. This is the way our board is delivered so that part is easy. Because our sheets are 6M long we dont usualy have any more than 6 butts in a house. I can rebate them all in about 20 min. I do it in a production manner run the tool on the top sheet then slide it back then run the tool on the next sheet and so on until I cant slide the sheets back any more. Then I pull the top sheet back to the end and glue it. Then lean that sheet against the wall and glue the next one. To say how long it takes to finish the joints is harx to say because it just gets done as part of your system. We prefill with cornice cement, which can be accelerated by mixing. I prefill them first with some mud that I have given a real good stir, it has set in about 10min. So then I tape them by hand with the last of the prefill mud. Then they are treated like any other flat and boxed when the rest are. I know that some were concerned that they may bubble. Well so far I have not had this happen at all.
> Hope this helps.


It sounds like you've got it pretty well dialed in, and that you might actually be saving time with it:thumbsup: How much did you say it costs? ie...how long does it take before it pays for itself by cutting out finishing time? (not being a smart-ass, I promise!)


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> Are you sure he does both trades, every picture I see of him on DWT, he has a fishing pole in one hand, and a beer in the other. Where does he find the time:whistling2::jester:


 inbetween hockey games..


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## gazman

SlimPickins said:


> It sounds like you've got it pretty well dialed in, and that you might actually be saving time with it:thumbsup: How much did you say it costs? ie...how long does it take before it pays for itself by cutting out finishing time? (not being a smart-ass, I promise!)


It is $495.00 Au including tax. Dont for get ALL our tools are expensive here, a 10" box is over $500.00 so it is all relative I guess.


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## Mudshark

2buckcanuck said:


> Got this link over at T&J, Amestaper put it up:thumbsup:
> 
> Wondering what you guys think, he's kind of on to something but.......
> 
> http://www.rebatemate.com.au/index.php?pg=2
> 
> Hit the tab where it says tv spot, the inventer made a video:yes:


:yes: If we could have all our butt joints as nice to coat as a regular bevelled edge, who wouldnt want that? This can not be compared to trimming studs or using buttboard behind the butts. The question is, how much effort do we want to make, to achieve it? Looks like gazman has given it an honest go and he seems to like it. Sure we would be hard pressed to convince piece worker boarding crews to adapt to this tool, but for the taper that does his own boarding I see the benefit. In one of your earlier posts gazman, it sounds like there was a drying time needed before hanging the board. Could it be hung before drying and the butts screwed later? Sorry gazman, I like the idea but not the price of the tool. Looking at the tool, it looks like it could be made at home with an angle grinder and a guide plate fairly easy. Has me thinking about it and adapting one of my angle grinders to this purpose just to try it out myself. :thumbsup:


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## gazman

The board can be hung within minutes, but should be left a couple of hours before taping.
The idea of adapting an angle grinder has a lot of merrit, The only problem that I can see is getting the depth right. After it makes its cut there is a film of rock still attached to the paper. This helps with the glueing. The other thing is you will need to source the right disc, it is like a fiber disc impregnated with diamonds on both sides. You would need to fit a dust extraction port too or you are going to look like a snow man.


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## Mudshark

gazman said:


> The board can be hung within minutes, but should be left a couple of hours before taping.
> The idea of adapting an angle grinder has a lot of merrit, The only problem that I can see is getting the depth right. After it makes its cut there is a film of rock still attached to the paper. This helps with the glueing. The other thing is you will need to source the right disc, it is like a fiber disc impregnated with diamonds on both sides. You would need to fit a dust extraction port too or you are going to look like a snow man.


Just a thin film attached to paper? If I made one up I would try it first and work on the vacuum attachment later. :blink:


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## gazman

Mudshark said:


> Just a thin film attached to paper?
> 
> I will take a pic next time I use it.


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## Lloydnz

hi guys merry christmas to all. I had chance to use the rebate mate this past week and i can tell you it does not add to much more time to the hanging time.when it came to taping and finishing i had to fill the rebate twice with a 6in knife to fill it then finished with my auto tools.The butt joints turned out the best I have done in my 40 years in the trade.the ownly thing i did not like was the tool cost 780 dollars here in new zealand cheers Lloyd.:thumbup:


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## Mudshark

Lloydnz said:


> hi guys merry christmas to all. I had chance to use the rebate mate this past week and i can tell you it does not add to much more time to the hanging time.when it came to taping and finishing i had to fill the rebate twice with a 6in knife to fill it then finished with my auto tools.The butt joints turned out the best I have done in my 40 years in the trade.the ownly thing i did not like was the tool cost 780 dollars here in new zealand cheers Lloyd.:thumbup:


Looks like another SOLD customer from down under.:yes: Too bad the price is so high. Did you use their glue or can you use other glue?


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## Lloydnz

we used there glue. looks and smells like normal pva glue.


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## gazman

Mudshark said:


> Just a thin film attached to paper? If I made one up I would try it first and work on the vacuum attachment later. :blink:



I had a bit of scrap board at home and got bored so I thought that I would show you what I meant by a thin film.


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## moore

So It's 1/16 below the paper removed?


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## gazman

Give or take yes.


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## Zendik

gazman said:


> Gday Zendik.
> I know all about production, we hung 66 sheets yesterday and still used the rebate tool. (our sheets are 6m long so we hung 480m2 or 5166 square feet) Thats glued and screwed.
> I dont think that it is fair to call something "garbage" until you have given it a fair go. This tool has changed the way that I do butts (after 30 years) so I think that you should realise that you are not the only one that knows what they are doing. I put this here because I thought that it may be helpfull not to be likened to Joe home repair.


My bad, are you hanging homes?
I get the feeling most here are residential?

Or Canada, New Zealand?

Personally I like the tool and what it produces it's just that it would never fly on commercial jobs I've been on. 
There is just no way a company like PCI (http://www.pcg.com/) would let anyone take the time to perform this on their jobs.
http://www.pcg.com/services/metal_drywall.htm

I think we have a little misunderstanding.
I'm used to working on jobs like this:
http://www.naurutower.com/
http://www.thewaikikilandmark.com/
http://www.hdcc.com/projects/condominium.html

I think we are talking about completely different worlds.
Didn't mean to put anything or anyone down and I understand why some would take jabs at me being that my comments may be seen as negative. Sorry about that.

Working large commercial projects for the last 27 years from Hawaii to Florida I just don't see this tool being applicable. Not for a national commercial drywall contractor that handles multiple jobs of this magnitude.


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## gazman

Hi Zendik.
Yes you are right we mostly do residential. We are a three man crew that rocks, tapes, cornices, and sands. So it is our own interest to make the rocking as neat as possible. Having said that the rebate tool helps us achieve this in an easy manner and helps with production. I get paid by the square meter so production is important to me, but I do understand that the demands of comercial work are very different to resi :yes:. 
We are all good keep on rocking.


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## Zendik

gazman said:


> Hi Zendik.
> Yes you are right we mostly do residential. We are a three man crew that rocks, tapes, cornices, and sands. So it is our own interest to make the rocking as neat as possible. Having said that the rebate tool helps us achieve this in an easy manner and helps with production. I get paid by the square meter so production is important to me, but I do understand that the demands of comercial work are very different to resi :yes:.
> We are all good keep on rocking.


Funny how many different worlds are in this drywall trade.

It would be feasible to use one of these on a commercial job.
Massive demising walls that had level 4 finishes up to grid could have some apprentices preparing the sheets ahead of the rockers. If they had a system going I wonder how much time it would take to prepare 100 sheets? 

It would be interesting to crunch the numbers to see if it could work in a commercial atmosphere. Could be a niche...


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## 2buckcanuck

Zendik said:


> My bad, are you hanging homes?
> I get the feeling most here are residential?
> 
> Or Canada, New Zealand?
> 
> Personally I like the tool and what it produces it's just that it would never fly on commercial jobs I've been on.
> There is just no way a company like PCI (http://www.pcg.com/) would let anyone take the time to perform this on their jobs.
> http://www.pcg.com/services/metal_drywall.htm
> 
> I think we have a little misunderstanding.
> I'm used to working on jobs like this:
> http://www.naurutower.com/
> http://www.thewaikikilandmark.com/
> http://www.hdcc.com/projects/condominium.html
> 
> I think we are talking about completely different worlds.
> Didn't mean to put anything or anyone down and I understand why some would take jabs at me being that my comments may be seen as negative. Sorry about that.
> 
> Working large commercial projects for the last 27 years from Hawaii to Florida I just don't see this tool being applicable. Not for a national commercial drywall contractor that handles multiple jobs of this magnitude.


Holy:blink: welcome to the modern era there Fred Flintstone


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## Zendik

2buckcanuck said:


> Holy:blink: welcome to the modern era there Fred Flintstone


Can't say I understand that...


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## moore

Zendik said:


> Can't say I understand that...


 stone age..??


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## moore

zendik said:


> my bad, are you hanging homes?
> I get the feeling most here are residential?
> 
> Or canada, new zealand?
> 
> Personally i like the tool and what it produces it's just that it would never fly on commercial jobs i've been on.
> There is just no way a company like pci (http://www.pcg.com/) would let anyone take the time to perform this on their jobs.
> http://www.pcg.com/services/metal_drywall.htm
> 
> i think we have a little misunderstanding.
> I'm used to working on jobs like this:
> http://www.naurutower.com/
> http://www.thewaikikilandmark.com/
> http://www.hdcc.com/projects/condominium.html
> 
> i think we are talking about completely different worlds.
> Didn't mean to put anything or anyone down and i understand why some would take jabs at me being that my comments may be seen as negative. Sorry about that.
> 
> Working large commercial projects for the last 27 years from hawaii to florida i just don't see this tool being applicable. Not for a national commercial drywall contractor that handles multiple jobs of this magnitude.


 impressive!


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