# Hook them and reel them in.



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Well the time has come again to give out an estimate to a GC IN the past I have given other estimates , one was for the big wigs home about 5 years ago and one was about a year ago for a sizable commercial job , both I was blown out of the picture with my price , so I get a call yesterday to go look at a couple of prints , not sure what I will do yet , when things were good I was to high ( reminder that there are low bidders out there through good and bad times ) I think against my better judgement i just might lower my rates a bit not because of lack for work , but to see if I may entice the GC into letting my company do the work. I have seen the final outcome of his other projects and the honest truth is the quality just isn't there ...... Hopefully in the end he may realize that a better job in the end is to his advantage , or he might just say the hell with it and do substandard work collect money from customers and move on to the next victim . Time will tell


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I gotten to where am so bold as to straight out ask "Where do I have to be on price to get this job?" They'll usually tell you. If they won't/don't, decide then if I want to waste my time bidding. Some of these bigger jobs take 6-12 hours (or more) to prepare a quality number and frankly don't want to spend that kind of time on it if I'm not pretty sure I'll get it.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree, I've used that approach as well. I usually follow it with an open mouth, but at least I get the answer.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I gotten to where am so bold as to straight out ask "Where do I have to be on price to get this job?" They'll usually tell you. If they won't/don't, decide then if I want to waste my time bidding. Some of these bigger jobs take 6-12 hours (or more) to prepare a quality number and frankly don't want to spend that kind of time on it if I'm not pretty sure I'll get it.



seriously, 100%.

ive gotten to the point now as well, where ive been so frustrated i do exactly as you said -- ASK what price i need to be at.

and for me, at least......i spend more time on bids. if i wanted to, lets say for a normal custom home, i can turn out a bid after measuring within the hour, but i choose to sit on the price for at least 2-3 days if i can. on bigger jobs, at least a week, IF i can.

ur right Darren, it takes time (and thought) to put together quality numbers.

often times ill already know the price within several mins of looking at a set of prints, but if i can i try to sit on that price in my head for as long as i can to simply........"THINK" about the job.

everyones got their process......this is mine. 

often times, in-btwn drives to jobsites, ill think about pricing while in the car....just quietly to myself.

all in all....there IS a lot of time that goes into a price.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

way too much.... all work that you never really seem to get appreciated for, let alone paid for.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I agree to about being up front and asking where they think the numbers should be , and try to get a feel how cheap they are , or if they want a quality job. A lot of them their reply is well I want it to be competitive. That does not tell me much that is something i already know. I feel that most do not read the proposal and only look at the bottom number . Makes me just want to ring there necks when you put all the time into putting something together for them , checking and double checking numbers. I learned years ago i never ever give out a quote / price on the spot , I always go back to my desk where there are no distractions. It could be the simplest of jobs but if figuring out a price on the spot it only takes one distraction to forget to carry a number or to add something in to lose on a $1000.00 or more , or over figuring could push you out of the bid altogether.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

And another thing.... The sooner (along the time line of the job) that you bid, the less likely you are to get it. By this I mean if you can be the _last_ bidder vs the first, the chances of getting improve. Even if you are not the lowest. By that time the builder has seen the behaviors of the low-ballers/competition and your bid and presentation will leave a better impression.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I never thought of it that way does make sense somewhat but ,. I always maintained a GC doesn't like waiting around and wants to know where we stands asap. Getting a price to them fast ensures them that we will also treat the work in the same respect getting it done and not waiting around. If we take forever to get them their estimate they may feel that their business isn't all that important to us and of coarse our work patterns may be the same , so for me getting an estimate out in a timely matter is important. Just have to be balanced.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I agree with silver on that one, the GC wants to feel like they're #1 because in their mind, nothing else matters but their job. Sick, isn't it?


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> And another thing.... The sooner (along the time line of the job) that you bid, the less likely you are to get it. By this I mean if you can be the _last_ bidder vs the first, the chances of getting improve. Even if you are not the lowest. By that time the builder has seen the behaviors of the low-ballers/competition and your bid and presentation will leave a better impression.


EXACTLY my friend.:drink:


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Whitey97 said:


> I agree with silver on that one, the GC wants to feel like they're #1 because in their mind, nothing else matters but their job. Sick, isn't it?


yea, the thing i think we've ALL learned (as 'sub-contractors') is that GC's CAN have huge egos.......just like ****** said, they think nothing else matters but the job they put in front of you....and how your business is "completely depending" on landing their job.....and that you'd get on your knees and open-wide for them.............PSHH.

please.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I don't mean for that to sound like I wait until the last minute to bid a job, but maybe put it off (if possible) until fur-downs or electric is going in. First, because a bunch of arches and other detail bs goes in after if you go measure the day after it gets roof sheeting. Second, if you're the (or nearly) the last bidder, all those hacks have pretty much drove around that job since they dug the hole -- they've got their number in and already had a chance to show the guy how unprofessional he is. The hack has probably pestered him since his sign went up and then you come along, with signs on your truck and all. By now, the builder has to be having questions about the hack and get to the best chance to overcome price objections, sell your quality and service. And you'll get a more accurate count of the board, now that all the detail is done by the framer. And you see some guys have already marked up the walls for you(usually incorrectly).

But, heck, if a builder calls for a price the day it's raftered, I'll go out and measure and get him a price right away. And I'll also tell him that I'll need to go out again once the fur-downs/details are done to ensure accuracy. A good builder knows all this already and usually won't ask for a price too early, unless he's hoping you'll miss something and underbid it.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I don't mean for that to sound like I wait until the last minute to bid a job, but maybe put it off (if possible) until fur-downs or electric is going in. First, because a bunch of arches and other detail bs goes in after if you go measure the day after it gets roof sheeting. Second, if you're the (or nearly) the last bidder, all those hacks have pretty much drove around that job since they dug the hole -- they've got their number in and already had a chance to show the guy how unprofessional he is. The hack has probably pestered him since his sign went up and then you come along, with signs on your truck and all. By now, the builder has to be having questions about the hack and get to the best chance to overcome price objections, sell your quality and service. And you'll get a more accurate count of the board, now that all the detail is done by the framer. And you see some guys have already marked up the walls for you(usually incorrectly).
> 
> But, heck, if a builder calls for a price the day it's raftered, I'll go out and measure and get him a price right away. And I'll also tell him that I'll need to go out again once the fur-downs/details are done to ensure accuracy. A good builder knows all this already and usually won't ask for a price too early, unless he's hoping you'll miss something and underbid it.



"a good builder knows all this already...."

that last part of your post is exact.

also, i myself will definitely wait as long as possible to furnish a bid (IFFF the builder lets me -- each case is different)

but Darren, for those VERY matters you discussed is why it is important. theres been so many times a builder has told me to bid something so preliminary, and of course by the time you are ready to stock drywall....there's all sorts of new features and items in the house that can screw you over.

on my contract i always state how 'if significant variance is found from initial plan take-off to PHYSICAL take-off (i.e., when the house is ready to hang) then adjustments WILL be made in price.' which, like you said...ANY good builder already knows this.

of course, all the moron builders (who always try to take advantage of their subs ANY chance they get) are the only ones that question why you had to add more to the price "just because" they added more arches, and increased a 10' ceiling to a 14' ceiling, added kerf style window/door layouts, etc etc etc.

i actually had one hack builder ask me that before....."just because i had to increase the ceiling ht 4' and add extra closets and a small guest room, that changes the price? dohhh?"

well, yea you idiot. READ my contract. it's clearly stated.

and i love the builders that ask "is there a change in price if we go from spray texture to a hand texture??"

sigh. God, im gettin sick of this business. hahhahahha.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm even getting asked to do _acoustic_ garage ceilings again. Not some little cracker box house either. These are 3000 sq ft golf course homes. Whatcha gonna save? Maybe @ .50 per floor foot on a 600 foot garage, $300? These guys slay me :lol:

But my main point before is that the later in the game that you can deliver a price, the better. Too early gives 'em too much time to dream up all that $#it they can add on, then act like yer rippin' them off. Bet the framer and lumber yard got extra for that high ceiling and extra guest room.

Must be a slow day in CA, too, seeing as we both seem to have a lot of desk time, eh?


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm even getting asked to do _acoustic_ garage ceilings again. Not some little cracker box house either. These are 3000 sq ft golf course homes. Whatcha gonna save? Maybe @ .50 per floor foot on a 600 foot garage, $300? These guys slay me :lol:
> 
> But my main point before is that the later in the game that you can deliver a price, the better. Too early gives 'em too much time to dream up all that $#it they can add on, then act like yer rippin' them off. Bet the framer and lumber yard got extra for that high ceiling and extra guest room.
> 
> Must be a slow day in CA, too, seeing as we both seem to have a lot of desk time, eh?


hah, good pt.....bout the framer and the lumber yard.


ehh...yea, it was/is currently a slow day in CA.

when im 'bidding' jobs, that usually involves me at the office doing and wording them myself (i dont trust my sectretary to do this still).

and thats what i was doing yesterday, as well as today.

but like, honestly.....WTF ARE you going to do when theres no jobs going on! hahahah.....im not afriad to say theres days im at my desk the entire day. And when i say 'no jobs' i really mean to say, theres such few jobs going on, tahts theres no need for me to be 'running around' job to job.

that reminds me, i wanted to post a new topic about this!

i wanna hear what everyones current schedule is like, as far as production, job starts, etc.

join me on the next topic fellas!


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

It sounds like a good idea to ask what the budget it, but alot of project managers for the GC will tell you a lower number than the budget, and see if you bite the bait!


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