# Columbia angle head problems



## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Ok I jus bought a new set of angle heads 2.5 an 3. Trying to incorporate them into my system, not having much luck so far. I have tried starting with the 3 after the roller and it doesn't seem like it is coating tape at all. Seems to pull all mud off tape an isnt smooth at all. I was trying to use my 12yr old roller and it could very well be my problem so I ordered a new roller.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

They don't coat tape.............Much, Its only tape coat, Second coats for coating tape and it wont be that smooth, Its tape coat, Second coats for making it smooth.

But your mud thickness, How hard your pushing the angle head in there, Type of mud all helps, You only lightly holding it in there, Not shoving and dragging.

Doesn't sound like its your roller, If you said my angleheads tearing the tape, Then that's maybe roller not setting it well, but a new one after 12 years wont hurt.

Sometimes the blades need worn in a bit too before they go good, All trial and error, Keep at it, You will get there :thumbsup:


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I have had some ripped tape, my second coat didn't cover well at all.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

New angle heads often take a while to break in. Some longer than others, but after a few houses it should be smooth. For glazing after the roller I like to use the 2.5". A light brush with a sanding pole and I pump angles with an angle box with the 3" head. I get nice clean angles using this method!


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Mountain Man said:


> New angle heads often take a while to break in. Some longer than others, but after a few houses it should be smooth. For glazing after the roller I like to use the 2.5". A light brush with a sanding pole and I pump angles with an angle box with the 3" head. I get nice clean angles using this method!


Same here, but use 3.5" head


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

If you've never used them before, there is a learning curve to them. Also, they may not be set up correctly. I've never used a Columbia head, so I can't help you there.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Is there anyway to speed up the break in process?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Depends on exactly what the issue is. On my 2.5" DM head, it doesn't want to smoothly roll on the ball. It's either something with the ball, something with the cup in the head, or both.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

No way to really speed up the break in process. The only thing you can really do is run them. My Columbia angle heads ran great right from the start but my tape tech ran a little rough for a couple houses. But it runs like a champ now!


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## forestbhoy (Jun 16, 2013)

jeepin270 said:


> Is there anyway to speed up the break in process?


Take the head, and the points of the blades that meet together and run in the crease of the paper ..... very,very very,very carefully let it touch a grinding wheel. Works for me and stops all that tape ripping....:thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Just give them a bit of a rub over 180g wet and dry sandpaper to take the sharp spots off.


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## forestbhoy (Jun 16, 2013)

cazna said:


> Just give them a bit of a rub over 180g wet and dry sandpaper to take the sharp spots off.


Now i have just recently replaced the blades on my columbia's head and as far as im aware,, the head blades are carbide steele? ? Cant see how a file,let alone sandpaper will touch it. Am i dolng something wrong or are we just using different parts over here.....? :yes:


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## tomg (Dec 16, 2009)

You're right - the tungsten carbide blades are harder than a file.
If you want to round off the point you will need a silicon carbide (carborundum) stone or grinding wheel (green in colour). Most sharpening stones and grinding wheels are aluminium oxide - which is no good for carbide.

Cheers,
Tom.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I have the found the Columbia heads are not tuned just right out of the box. I have reset the blades and they will run much better.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

This is a real bummer, i hope it has to do with the roller. Seems like the angle head isnt leaving any mud over the tape. Any tips on adjusting them to leave a little more mud over tape?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

There isn't any real adjustment, you get them set correctly and that's that. A 2.5" head, set correctly WILL cover the tape. Starting out with too big of a head will make issues with coverage. (This is following an auto-taper) basically if you want to go bigger, you need to add mud to what the taper is leaving.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> This is a real bummer, i hope it has to do with the roller. Seems like the angle head isnt leaving any mud over the tape. Any tips on adjusting them to leave a little more mud over tape?


What are you taping with? Bazooka? Banjo? Compound tube?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

How hard are you pressing on the head when using it? Do you have a lot of mud falling off the head while going down an angle?

You don't need to press hard. When using it you should feel some resistance when gliding along the board. If it slides very easily, you are pressing too hard and effectively wiping all the mud off.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I am currently applying mud with compound tube


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> I am currently applying mud with compound tube


Then squeeze harder and put on more mud with it. 

Maybe a change in the applicator head you're using could help. Some will put out more than others, just by the very nature of their design.


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## gluedandscrewed (Jan 10, 2014)

I have the same issue with my new 3" columbia. Tears tape way too often and easily and leaves a ****ty looking edge when flushing. I have resorted back to wiping tape by hand after using corner roller.
I then just coat with a 3.5 angle head and 7" corner box and its pretty damn good.

Not very professional when a homeowner /gc is watching you and your ripping half the tape out of the angle cursing like a sailor.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I tried to grind the edge of the blades where it comes to a point the other day, there isnt any sanding or grinding with dermal that can be done to these blades lol they are some pretty hard metal. So yesterday I ran a house out and started with 2.5, I didnt try the 3. The 2.5 seemed alot smoother. I did pick up a new roller so that could've helped. Its is a learning curve, I am nowhere as fast as I was with flushers. My plan was to start with the 3 an finish with 2.5 but I think I wanna go with 2.5 then 3.5. Sucks buying these crazy expensive tools and it not working the way u planned


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Auto tools involve some cursing! Is the tape ripping when your glazing over wet flats and butts? Generally you need a light touch if that's the case.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I haven't had a tape rip since I got new roller. Today is gonna be my first day using bazooka.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Did you use the 3" with the new roller? Were you having issues with tearing tape with the 2.5?


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

No I didnt have any issues tearing tape with 2.5. I will try the 3 again and see if it rips the tape still. I think alot of it had to do with my worn out roller not setting tape properly.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Just for fun, try your old roller and the 2.5" head. Just as a comparison. If you don't tear the tape, you should keep the roller as a backup.


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## Magic (Feb 20, 2014)

I use the 2.5 for taping because it holds the mudd and flows better. I find taping with the 3 it wants to dry out faster so you push a little harder only to tear the tape.
As stated above, there is a learning curve. By the end of a few rooms you will find what works and it all becomes second nature to you.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

The 3 still rips the tape. I tried to run my zook for first time, it was a ultimate fail.. I have no idea what's wrong with it. I set it on gooseneck to fill, I made sure the gate lever was in correct position, started pumping it up and mud start blowing out. Then it wouldn't put mud on tape at all. I will try and diagnose the problem more today so I can have better information.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

9 times out of 10, it's user error. Lol. I feel for you!


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> The 3 still rips the tape. I tried to run my zook for first time, it was a ultimate fail.. I have no idea what's wrong with it. I set it on gooseneck to fill, I made sure the gate lever was in correct position, started pumping it up and mud start blowing out. Then it wouldn't put mud on tape at all. I will try and diagnose the problem more today so I can have better information.


If you could shoot videos of what you're doing, that might let someone here pick up on what might be going wrong.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I will try and figure out how to shoot some videos, i work bymyself so it might be somewhat of a challenge. It will be a good excuse to try and get the old lady to come into work with me for a day haha.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

I just got 2.5 and 3" heads back from Columbia after getting them repaired and they were set for to much mud flow so they ran like crap. I moved the bottom of the skids out a hair and they are perfect now.


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## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

jeepin270 said:


> I will try and figure out how to shoot some videos, i work bymyself so it might be somewhat of a challenge. It will be a good excuse to try and get the old lady to come into work with me for a day haha.


Pick up a go pro so many uses for it. Then you can convince the old lady to use that somewhere other then work. Lol


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jeepin270 said:


> I made sure the gate lever was in correct position, started pumping it up and mud start blowing out.


Open this thingy [?]


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## forestbhoy (Jun 16, 2013)

Maybe more luck than judgement,but whenever I replace the blades on mine, I just rip out the old ones,put in the new and make sure the top ones touch when the body is pulled back. I work on the assumption that the replacements are like for like,so don't have to mess with the grubs at the back of the head....:whistling2:

If it was running alright all the time I've had it,dont see why mess with anything else on it......did you try adjusting these by any chance...?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

moore said:


> Open this thingy [?]


Moore, your taper is an oddity! Lol probably not the best one to use for teaching purposes.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Fill









Run









Empty it at the end if the day!


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I am 100% sure that I am putting the lever in right place, when I start pumping it up mud flows right back out. Maybe that seal that goes on that little door needs to be replaced


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Where is the mud coming out of? Where it comes out while it's being run? If so, take the lid off and have a look around. Take pics!


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

How you make out Jeep?


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> I am 100% sure that I am putting the lever in right place, when I start pumping it up mud flows right back out. Maybe that seal that goes on that little door needs to be replaced


 If you haven't seen or checked it out, Columbia's online auto tool operating manual. You might find something in there - it has such things as diagrams how to operate the gate for filling and running. It also has some troubleshooting ideas:

https://system.netsuite.com/core/me...u&vid=RkxdO7jgAYF9NQv_&cktime=123066&gc=clear


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

got called out on running my Inside Corner Applicator Head backwards. now I run wheels first. o well


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I spent some time working on the zook today, I figured out a few things. Only thing I am worried about is if the mud flows right back out of head when I am pumping it up. I will post the out come with pics tomorrow.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Pump it up with water, if it's sealed right, it will hold water! If it isn't, you don't have to clean it!


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> I spent some time working on the zook today, I figured out a few things. Only thing I am worried about is if the mud flows right back out of head when I am pumping it up. I will post the out come with pics tomorrow.


Is there some hardened mud or something keeping the gate from closing all the way? Are you closing the gate and leaving the bazooka's head sitting in some water while you're using it but not running it for a bit? How are you clearing the bazooka after you've used it? Pumping water through it using your pump?


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Thanks for that information, I never thought about trying to pump it up with water! When I have cleaned it I take the cap off the head and rinse all the mud out and scrub with a toothbrush. I will post the results later today.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I don't bother taking the cap off, I'll scrub the outside as well as I can, use a 1" knife to get the tape slot, put the goose neck in an empty bucket and pump about 20 pumps of water thru it(leave the gate open). That's good enough til the next day. If i'm done with the taper for the job, I'll hose it when I get home.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Great information, cleaning tools has turned into a major chore..


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

]No luck for me, the zook cant hold water lol. I will add pics.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I have such a hard time uploading pics. I have to make a post and then go back and edit it before it will upload. I always get upload failed.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> I have such a hard time uploading pics. I have to make a post and then go back and edit it before it will upload. I always get upload failed.


Where's the side screw for that top plate, to help hold things tight? Is that plate sitting right down flush on that side? Things like that can also cause some leaking issues.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Well looks like there is supposed to be screws but they r broke off and are flush. I can drill and ez out those 2 screws. It leaks pretty bad though.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Not saying it is your biggest problem as far as leaking, but it can create problems.

Btw, when you leave your bazooka head down in some water while taping - whether that's on occasion while wiping down tapes you put on, or while on lunch, or ........ , remember to close your flow gate, if it hasn't already come to mind. Otherwise you'll have mud leaking out. A quick scrub at times of some of the mud that's maybe thickening up a bit on the bazooka can help it run better, as well.

Maybe fr8 or someone can make a video of how to clean and clear a bazooka, while running it and after finished.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Where is the water shooting out from? Under the lid, circled in red? Or behind the clutch control circled in blue?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

From under the lid, take the lid off and put a little bead of silicone, my dm has a rubber gasket.

From behind the clutch control (?) May have some worn nyliners or bushings, or whatever they put in there.

How old is this taper? How hard was it used? Etc etc


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Now you got me thinking. Since I need to clean my taper anyway, I'll dbl check that it holds water completely, or if it dribbles out. Either way, dribbling should be fine as mud is much thicker than water.

Water, nor mud, should be oozing out of every place on a taper. Let alone squirting out like in your pic. 

I'll get back to you.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Will an auto taper hold water?: http://youtu.be/vwatmZiB8E0


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I bought this taper used off CL. Paid 650 for it and it was supposed to be ready to tape lol. It came with 2 of the parts bags they make for it. There isnt any kinda extra gaskets. I guess one of biggest problems is that this is first zook I have ever seen so u wanna talk about unfamiliar lol. I have messed around with it to get myself more familiar with it.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Well the spot where the water is squirting from, is that where the mud is coming from?


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

The mud seems to flow right out the top almost like the gate is opened even though its closed. I guess the best place to start is to fix those broken screws and put some new ones in and go from there.
the mud comes out all over the place


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Take the cap off, and snap a pic. I'm curious as to what's going on under there


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Do you think I should order a new cap?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Judging by the pics, I would start there! Lol. I'll post the pics in a few


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)




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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Would I be better off sending the whole thing to Columbia? Since I am pretty green on knowing what's what with it.


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

Is the drive spinning when you fill it or is it hard to pump? I wonder if the piston is seized. In that case mud would try and find a path. Take the cap off and try an push the piston down the tube, it should move easily.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Make sure the gate is in the fill position.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I just found out that the tapers made before 2004 used a cover plate gasket. Not totally sure how old mine is. I think I might attempt to rebuild it myself after watching the videos. Does anyone know if u can update a older taper with some of the newer things that they have come out with? Like the grenade pin cover, the stainless steel drum that has holes in it. I will call and talk to Aaron from Columbia this week and order up whatever he thinks I should need.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a dm king taper. The quick release head, really doesn't get you anything, IMO. I wouldn't bother trying to upgrade to one.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

saskataper said:


> Is the drive spinning when you fill it or is it hard to pump? I wonder if the piston is seized. In that case mud would try and find a path. Take the cap off and try an push the piston down the tube, it should move easily.


Piston moves up and down like it should, no issues there


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

It is a typical Columbia, you need to run a pretty thick bead of silicone around that lid. Then put a little oil on the part where it will seat and screw it on. When it dries, it will be sealed, but won't stick to the tube just to the lid. That will help a lot. Mine was new and had to do that to keep it from leaking. That is what Aaron told me to do. I didn't figure it out on my own. :thumbsup:


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I am having alot of trouble with the 3in angle head not leaving enough mud to cover the tape. I dont think its a mud consistency problem because I usually have to much mud on and it falls all over the floor. I was watching the Columbia angle head rebuild video and he says u can shim it to leave more mud, has anyone tried this?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

How is your 2.5 covering? We run 2.5 to tape, 3.5 to skim.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

You might just have to take all four blades out, clean out the head real good and put the blades back in and adjust. Make sure they are flat and the head doesn't rock after you are done. You have to do it on a flat surface. A counter top works good. Or a desk top.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

Well the 2.5 isnt covering that well either.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

You will be amazed how much better they run if you get the head square and flat. And make sure your mud is thin enough on the first coat. That can make your angles not run right. In that they will kinda float the tape to the surface and not put mud on top of the tape. Because the mud is too stiff to flow very good.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I think PA has his 2.5 with a little bit of rock, and his 3.5 had quite a bit of rock.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

And as we all know, more rock = more mud.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

fr8train said:


> I think PA has his 2.5 with a little bit of rock, and his 3.5 had quite a bit of rock.


PA Rocker? When you say rock does that mean how much shim is needed?


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Rock, refers to the amount on movement achieved when the angle head is placed on a flat surface, and you push down on the leading outside corner.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I would need to re watch the Columbia vids to see if shim and rock are the same thing. When I think shim, I think of adding something to close a gap. I.e washer or wooden shingles.

Basically, "rock" is the difference in height between the top blade and the bottom of the side blade.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Wish I could take a pic, but I don't have any finishing tools with me today. Going to paint. But at $28/hr I won't complain to much


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

fr8train said:


> I would need to re watch the Columbia vids to see if shim and rock are the same thing. When I think shim, I think of adding something to close a gap. I.e washer or wooden shingles.
> 
> Basically, "rock" is the difference in height between the top blade and the bottom of the side blade.


I am talking about the metal shims that come in various sizes. Like 10 thousands 15 thousands and so on.

So more rock equals more mud covering tape? Can the adjustment be made with the top blade only without adjusting bottom blade?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

They just use those to guage the amount of rock, .005" , 0.015" etc etc.


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## Level5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Taper Repair*



jeepin270 said:


> I bought this taper used off CL. Paid 650 for it and it was supposed to be ready to tape lol. It came with 2 of the parts bags they make for it. There isnt any kinda extra gaskets. I guess one of biggest problems is that this is first zook I have ever seen so u wanna talk about unfamiliar lol. I have messed around with it to get myself more familiar with it.


Jeepin270, you need to get this repaired/rebuilt in the head area. We can help at Level 5 Tools. Call and talk to Robby at 866-562-4229. It will not stop leaking with the missing screws. We repair all brands for a fraction of the cost of other repair shops!


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Jeepin, I'd say your plastic nyliners need to be replaced on the cable drum, I just did this with another gun to fix a leak in the same place. It can be a PITA cause the drum corrodes and becomes stuck to the drive dog and not pull apart so easily. Take a look at allwalls diagram and grab the couple plastic parts that go into that area, and take care not to break the drivedog while removing the assembly.... GL


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

jeepin270 said:


> I am talking about the metal shims that come in various sizes. Like 10 thousands 15 thousands and so on.
> 
> So more rock equals more mud covering tape? Can the adjustment be made with the top blade only without adjusting bottom blade?


Not necessarily. The more it rocks the more it leaves an edge that you either have to skim out or sand. Don't like that!


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I measured how much rock I have and it was 0.15, I adjusted them to .200. I hope it helps.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBq8nXQOVRU

A video watching Aaron St. James/Columbia guru setting an angle head.


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I cant help but wonder if some of the comments that I have made here pissed off the people at Columbia. I called to speak with Aaron twice and the lady said he would call me back, its been over a week an I still haven't heard back. When I talked to the lady I told her to tell Aaron about this thread so he would have a good idea of what parts I need to fix my taper. I didnt think I said anything wrong an was only looking for help from people that know more about auto tools


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## Corey The Taper (Mar 18, 2014)

I would just call again. Im sure he probably just forgot running a drywall business is time consuming and a headache enough at times. Could you imagine him with thousands of customers and machines to program and what not


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jeepin270 said:


> I cant help but wonder if some of the comments that I have made here pissed off the people at Columbia. I called to speak with Aaron twice and the lady said he would call me back, its been over a week an I still haven't heard back. When I talked to the lady I told her to tell Aaron about this thread so he would have a good idea of what parts I need to fix my taper. I didnt think I said anything wrong an was only looking for help from people that know more about auto tools


They might still be in the process of moving to a different factory setup, or getting settled in(?) With some new tools coming out as well, I imagine it's a busy time with them. Maybe a message sent to Aaron here at DWT, giving a link to this thread, might possibly help(?)


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## jeepin270 (Mar 30, 2014)

I am going to send him a email with the pics attached.


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## ColumbiaTechSupport (Aug 13, 2010)

That would be great, I want to get your issue fixed. I never received any message so I will have to look into that. I do remember talking to you the first time around.


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