# Mudding preparation ?



## Redcld (Oct 25, 2011)

The contractor I have hired believes it is not normal to place drop cloths down during mudding. Our home is finished except for the basement which he is working. He has various drywall mudding tools and cylinders. The mud is being trampled into my cement floor and wooden stairs which both the stairs and some of the cement require self leveling later so they must be clean. The mud is everywhere. Is this the norm? Do contractors normally put some type of floor protection or not? Is it normal for mud to be ground into the floor on new contruction?
Thanks.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

If you live in the communist province of Ontario, then yes, we grind her into the floors real good:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Floor protection costs extra, are you willing to pay for it?

You need to let your subcontractor know BEFORE work begins that you want floors protected.

Now, If he's messing up your house while he goes down to the basement, then he's negligent. It's his job to protect the right-of-way into the work area, but unless it has been specified, it's not truly his responsibility. Myself however, I ALWAYS ask BEFORE submitting a bid/estimate.

Let me guess........he was the low bidder?:whistling2:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Mud IS water soluble. Do you have access to hot water and a mop ? :whistling2:

There's a normal amount of mess and then there's insane. Show us a pic and we'll tell you.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

*Drop cloths*

If a drywallers was doing renovations and mudding over carpets he might consider drop cloths. On an unfinished basement with cement floors highly unlikely. It scrapes off when dry and the rest as they say is water soluble so mop it up. 

Soak it up buttercup!


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## Checkers (Jun 25, 2010)

I charge a lot to cover floors because it shifts the liability to me. 
Are your tapers even finished yet? People often forget that trades and just that, not maids.


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## Redcld (Oct 25, 2011)

*Mudding prep*

Definitely not the lowest bidder. 80 $ per hour. He is using a bazooka applicator,is this better?
It sure seems to make a mess.
As far as cleanup if you are prepping substrate for adhesive such as on the stairs or using self leveling cement you will not get it clean enough for proper adhesion with just a mop.
it seems as though pride in workmanship is hard to find. The floor should be no worse than when the job started.
You would not want a mechanic to mess up your vehicle just because they made it run well.
Who pays extra for that?


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Redcld, good morning!

First, you're right, the mess is heinous to deal with.
Dust and mud, mud and dust-
where o where does it end?
Your drywaller may also think it is normal to eat pnutbutternjelly with his hands full of crusties,
but that doesn't help you.

If you want a real solution and to be better off than you're gonna be no matter what you do now,
buy some rolls of rosin paper.
Just that.
Don't whine about putting it down if the old boy won't
You are the worst kind of client for some,
the kind that wants clean floors.
I want clean floors too.
Long evolution to where I can provide that in a cost effective way.
Extra 500 or so for a whole house.
Covered once only,
keep other trades from ripping it up,
no bs on my paper
500
I'd do your basement for a fraction of that.
100 or somethig,
stairs are a pain,
use ramboard and duct tape there, another 50
so yeah
150 for your basement.
You do it in less than an hour plus the stairs then you made good money
drywaller says do it and save the trouble and bs


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

sometimes and I mean sometimes, if owner supplies paper I will lay it down for them. Covering floors is something that should be specified in pre bid phase or in proposal... if we didnt bid it chances are we wont cover. Im sure he will scrape and sweep up well when done. The trades following should not have a problem with a lil mud. I would be more concerned with the taping skills and finish you get


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## Zendik (Sep 14, 2011)

Gravity.

It's what makes mud fall.


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

Redcld said:


> ... He is using a bazooka applicator,is this better?
> It sure seems to make a mess.
> As far as cleanup... The floor should be no worse than when the job started...


Two things
first you seem to be looking for the ammo needed to flick your guy some $h!t when you see him,
and do you really believe what you say about the floor being the same when the drywaller leaves as it was before he comes? 
I doesn't work that way unless you are willing to do the work necessary to make it work that way.
That is usually done before the drywaller gets there.
More and more it's falling to the drywallers to keep the floor pristine.
For 25 cents taxed piece rate
Keep the floor nice and level 5 for a quarter.
Well
$80 an hour and I'll do whatever you say


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

oh and one last thing,
I'll bet the 80 is you figuring how many hours it should take,
divided by a guy that won't do what you want, added to the subset of asking for too much in a given scenario, and now you are going to get your feelings hurt because you know it's true


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Redcld said:


> Definitely not the lowest bidder. 80 $ per hour. He is using a bazooka applicator,is this better?
> It sure seems to make a mess.
> As far as cleanup if you are prepping substrate for adhesive such as on the stairs or using self leveling cement you will not get it clean enough for proper adhesion with just a mop.
> it seems as though pride in workmanship is hard to find. The floor should be no worse than when the job started.
> ...


While the number $80.00 seems high, you have to remember that there are overhead costs for running a business. It's easy for you to sit there and think the guy is screwing you over or wasting your money. A Bazooka saves him a lot of time, but they also cost over $1000 dollars and are expensive to maintain.

As long as the floor is WET before adding the self leveler everything will be fine...add some concrete adhesive to the mix if necessary. There's always a solution. Think about it this way.....mud sticks to the walls and stays there, right?


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## FabFour (Oct 25, 2011)

Redcld said:


> The contractor I have hired believes it is not normal to place drop cloths down during mudding. Our home is finished except for the basement which he is working. He has various drywall mudding tools and cylinders. The mud is being trampled into my cement floor and wooden stairs which both the stairs and some of the cement require self leveling later so they must be clean. The mud is everywhere. Is this the norm? Do contractors normally put some type of floor protection or not? Is it normal for mud to be ground into the floor on new contruction?
> Thanks.


The only problem I see here is the lack of knowledge on the customers part. Drywall is messy. The floors always wind up with mud on them. When work is complete the drywaller will scrape and broom the floors. This is what was done on the main floor of your home, you just weren't there to see it. When the floors are scraped clean there is only a stain left behind and that will not stop the adhesive from doing it's job. Don't try to re-invent the wheel, it's a wast of time.

FabFour


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Redcld said:


> The contractor I have hired believes it is not normal to place drop cloths down during mudding. Our home is finished except for the basement which he is working. He has various drywall mudding tools and cylinders. The mud is being trampled into my cement floor and wooden stairs which both the stairs and some of the cement require self leveling later so they must be clean. The mud is everywhere. Is this the norm? Do contractors normally put some type of floor protection or not? Is it normal for mud to be ground into the floor on new contruction?
> Thanks.


 OMG!!


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Redcld said:


> The contractor I have hired believes it is not normal to place drop cloths down during mudding. Our home is finished except for the basement which he is working. He has various drywall mudding tools and cylinders. The mud is being trampled into my cement floor and wooden stairs which both the stairs and some of the cement require self leveling later so they must be clean. The mud is everywhere. Is this the norm? Do contractors normally put some type of floor protection or not? Is it normal for mud to be ground into the floor on new contruction?
> Thanks.


I work for a large drywall company which does commercial construction - new and renovations. If there's covering to go down over a floor, the general contractor (which in this case would be you) supplies it and installs it. If the generals we work for thought it should be otherwise, you can bet they'd let us know it.

But if my company was to get paid $80 per man hour extra to install it, I'm quite sure they'd do it.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

moore said:


> OMG!!


Our home is finished except for the basement which he is working. He has various drywall mudding tools and 



My bad... A finished home .. He should have never tracked mud on your finished steps. I would have never come through the front door . Do you have a basement door:blink:? At times I'll crawl thru a window to avoid tracking thru a finished home ..as far as the mud dropped on the unfinished basement floor ,,[wish i had a smiley for bitch slap] get over it .. some drop little...some drop alot. at $80 an hour I'd use a 30'' hawk so no to drop a single speck of mud..


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

moore said:


> At times I'll crawl thru a window to avoid tracking thru a finished home .


Do you ever get strange looks from the neighbors? :whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

wnybassman said:


> Do you ever get strange looks from the neighbors? :whistling2:


LOL..You know what I mean


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

It's as simple as....its not a finished floor and thats that, there is no reason to put drop cloths on an unfinished floor, it doesn't matter that you think he should have. It doesn't matter that you feel your unfinished cement floor should look perfect when he is finished.
What your taper is doing is what every other taper would be doing. If you hired him that makes you the general contractor which means it would fall on you to protect unfinished floors not him....doesn't matter what you think is right it matters what the standard is, and he is doing the standard job.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> But if my company was to get paid $80 per man hour extra to install it, I'm quite sure they'd do it.


I'll sweep the same floor aaaalllllll day long for $80/hr. Hell, I'd even throw some hard work in if they wanted me too.:whistling2:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

*Clean floors*

Once did this commercial job with smooth concrete floors. After finishing up scraped and cleaned the floor as normal (plenty good enough for all the other floor layers). This Prima Dona floorlayer complained to super that floor wasnt good enough so I was asked to use a mop. Reluctantly I soaked the area in question and mopped it up real good. Well floorlayer still wasnt satisfied. I went back and used 15 gallons of HOT water on floor, used scrub brush and mop. Well the jerk still wasnt satisfied so I sort of lost it on the supervisor explaining this is far beyond the normal in prepping the floor for the next trade. I made a point of soaking the hell out of some of his carpet samples he had kicking around and made myself unavailable to him after that.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudshark said:


> Once did this commercial job with smooth concrete floors. After finishing up scraped and cleaned the floor as normal (plenty good enough for all the other floor layers). This Prima Dona floorlayer complained to super that floor wasnt good enough so I was asked to use a mop. Reluctantly I soaked the area in question and mopped it up real good. Well floorlayer still wasnt satisfied. I went back and used 15 gallons of HOT water on floor, used scrub brush and mop. Well the jerk still wasnt satisfied so I sort of lost it on the supervisor explaining this is far beyond the normal in prepping the floor for the next trade. I made a point of soaking the hell out of some of his carpet samples he had kicking around and made myself unavailable to him after that.


Next time use the advice of my avatar :yes:

and since he's a floor guy, ask him if he wants to be in his usual position of "on his knees" when you b1tch slap him.

commercial jobs , your either in a constant war or argument with the painters, floor guys, sparkies, plumbers, tin bangers............. ok....... every body !!!!!!!!!

I sorta miss those days


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> commercial jobs , your either in a constant war or argument with the painters, floor guys, sparkies, plumbers, tin bangers............. ok....... every body !!!!!!!!!


Yeah so true - Seems I was caught up in the middle of too many of those wars myself. (Too much DRAMA). Residential is much more peacefull but I liked the steadyness of those big jobs knowing where you will be working for the next few months.


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## Redcld (Oct 25, 2011)

*Mudding prep*

Paid 320$(4 hours) to get the contractor to protect floor. Same contractor did the framing, he is the only one doing work.
When the house was built there was no where near this amount of mud on the floor as I was there often. Never seen this bazooka before but man it makes a mess.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Does it state in contract that he is to be paid $320.00 (4 hours) to protect floors. If so go ahead and cover your own floors adjust his bill and make your self $80.00 an hour. In the right hands the bazooka is a very efficient and clean tool. In the hands of a guy that is just starting to use one it can be quite messy.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Another thing have you mentioned this to your contractor. Some times people stew over things and all it would take is a simple Hey, remember when we talked about protecting the floors.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Redcld said:


> Paid 320$(4 hours) to get the contractor to protect floor. Same contractor did the framing, he is the only one doing work.
> When the house was built there was no where near this amount of mud on the floor as I was there often. Never seen this bazooka before but man it makes a mess.


You already paid it? If you're paying by the hour, why was it paid in advance?

Is the taper and the contractor/framer the same? If so, you might have someone not as well versed in running taping tools.

If you paid by the hour, and unless he created some taping problems with the bazooka, it should've saved you some money time wise.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Redcld said:


> Paid 320$(4 hours) to get the contractor to protect floor. Same contractor did the framing, he is the only one doing work.
> When the house was built there was no where near this amount of mud on the floor as I was there often. Never seen this bazooka before but man it makes a mess.


I just taped a 100 sheet addition with a bazooka and I'll bet there wasn't over ten quarter sized mud drops on the floor. Then fr8train showed up .


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey, if there's one thing I excel at, it's making messes, but at least I clean it up, when we're done!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I just taped a 100 sheet addition with a bazooka and I'll bet there wasn't over ten quarter sized mud drops on the floor. Then fr8train showed up .


LMAO!!!!:lol::lol:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks a lot Redcid I've been paranoid all day..


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I just taped a 100 sheet addition with a bazooka and I'll bet there wasn't over ten quarter sized mud drops on the floor. Then fr8train showed up .










sounds like you got a 2buckjr in the making

When he also starts breaking and losing your tools, tells you your lucky to have someone like him working for you, and thinks he's the boss. Then fr8train can change his name to P.A. rocker junior


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

LOL, what can I say? When I worked at the plant, the floor was covered with paper before the walls were even set on top. So all the mess came out with the paper, didn't have to learn mud-control, except to keep from wearing it. Which I'll admit, I wear enough.  I'm working on it though. You can definitely tell when if was hand coating a lot of stuff, or running the tools most of the day. (With the tools, I stay cleaner!)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I hear ya fr8trian ..If I'm not being pushed I can keep the floors fairly clean,but If they give a deadline ..Fck It..I let It fly...and take care of later, That's one thing I like about scaffold work ..It hits the planks not the floor.

I'm right handed ..so my left stays clean..


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## vhcconstruction (Nov 11, 2008)

*sick of the bs*

This client says there mechanic wouldn't leave a mess, last time I looked mechanics have way higher prices then us and you go to them. We have to travel everywhere and try to please everyone. Mudding is messy, and if your floors need leveling I am to guess that your original builder didn't do the job right in the first place, probably because you wanted to save money saying we are not going to finish the basement, don't worry about it. In this case I am guessing the 80 an hour is a built in cost to deal with the client, you all know what I mean, (there's dog hair on my freshly mudded wall... what are you going to do? keep the dog out of the room like I told you to do) This should have been stated by the client before the job started they wanted the floors covered. But if they are getting the mud in finished areas then they do have something to complain about.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Redcld said:


> Paid 320$(4 hours) to get the contractor to protect floor.


 Do you have a really big basement? 4 hours is a long time to cover floors (especially after they're all dirty :laughing: )

Does that include materials? Let's see...


roll of floor paper - $30.00
masking tape - $10-15.00
time spent getting materials - etc, etc
I don't use the word "hate" very often, but I hate having an OCD homeowner looking over my shoulder all day long, sitting there thinking about how much of their money I'm stealing while I bust my ass and they sit there and watch, critique, and judge. If they're so good at doing my job, then why the f%$# aren't they doing it?

For instance, they don't think about how the bazooka is putting tape on in hours (as opposed to it taking a homeowner a week of nights and weekends), they think about "how messy it is".


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

slimpickins said:


> do you have a really big basement? 4 hours is a long time to cover floors (especially after they're all dirty :laughing: )
> 
> does that include materials? Let's see...
> 
> ...


yep.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

I run into this problem alot when it comes to Stained concrete floors. They don't want to pull the extra dough from their pockets at all. Last job, the builder wanted to wait until floor was stained before sheetrock was delivered to the home??? go figure? Heck if I tried to figure out some of this crazy stuff, I would be in the nut house by now. Usually on patch and reapir I just take along enough drops to get the job done as fast as possible. Last year I had a very big home with repairs all over the place, Was very tough, Prep took me longer to do than the repairs.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Welcome back betterdrywall :yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Well redcld never said which province he/she is from, but if from Ontario

Our Ministry of labour likes to brag they have the toughest safety rules in North America (there's no such thing as a accident, did you guys know that ???) You just can't throw a drop sheet on the ground, and go there. And even if you take proper measures and fasten the drop sheets or rosin paper to the ground, and someone gets tripped up or injured from it, guess who gets the blame ?????

Thats why it's cheaper for them to clean later, less things for the worker to trip over means less chance of a comp claim.

As for another example, if a service person from a Utility company (hence government run hydro, gas, water etc..) they are under strict orders to never remove their work boots well entering a customers house , even if their boots are full of mud. If the H.O. offers to lay down some type of floor covering, they will refuse to walk on it. Sighting Ministry of Labour rules, they will play BS games of fine, lay down your floor covering, then book appointment with MOL to inspect it, then set up another appointment with us when you have done that blah blah blah...... It's true:yes:

And $80bucks a hour for Ontario, thats cheap, after the GC pays his tax, comp, insur, payroll tax, HST ,etc he might have $30 bucks a hour left to himself:yes:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

cazna said:


> Welcome back betterdrywall :yes:


 Thanks cazna,I have not read the boards in along time, Things have been abit crazy lately.Too much work going on for me. Plus I am not intrested in drywall at all. Seems like I run into the same problems over and over again on the jobsites. Last customer actually did some online research... Go figure,, She really did get some super duper quality second opion advice from a DIY website. And the time it took to Prove to her my advice was corect from the begining ... I really wanted to pull my hair out. 
Chit dayum 1/4 inch should have been riped out and replaced to begin with. old 50;s remodle job twice over, this time they wanted the job done right by a pro. so anyway, just abit of rambling, Anyway boys and girls , remember always Primer old walls before appling any texture finish. I know, I know,, Primer cost too much money! Or just PAY to remove the old CHIT ROCK ,replace with NEW Sheetrock, and do it right to begin with... Tight azz homeowners !


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> Thanks cazna,I have not read the boards in along time, Things have been abit crazy lately.Too much work going on for me. Plus I am not intrested in drywall at all. Seems like I run into the same problems over and over again on the jobsites. Last customer actually did some online research... Go figure,, She really did get some super duper quality second opion advice from a DIY website. And the time it took to Prove to her my advice was corect from the begining ... I really wanted to pull my hair out.
> Chit dayum 1/4 inch should have been riped out and replaced to begin with. old 50;s remodle job twice over, this time they wanted the job done right by a pro. so anyway, just abit of rambling, Anyway boys and girls , remember always Primer old walls before appling any texture finish. I know, I know,, Primer cost too much money! Or just PAY to remove the old CHIT ROCK ,replace with NEW Sheetrock, and do it right to begin with... Tight azz homeowners !


I feel your pain, I too do a fair amount of old stuff, Sometimes its ok, Thinking out of the box and trying new things or just making it up as you go can be fun, homeowner dependent of course. Most of the time as you say the rock should be torn out and start again, Its amazing how they think thats such a big deal so refuse, Then become fussy and want dog chit turned into honey. :blink:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

cazna, I like the Dog Chit turned into Honey,, Thats funny,, and you had to say it at the right time.. Bidding on a section 8 apartment building right now,, 4 units total. The roach mess and blood stained walls are going to be FUN ! But hey I will have Proof that I can turn Dog chit into Honey . If I get this project.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

betterdrywall said:


> cazna, I like the Dog Chit turned into Honey,, Thats funny,, and you had to say it at the right time.. Bidding on a section 8 apartment building right now,, 4 units total. The roach mess and blood stained walls are going to be FUN ! But hey I will have Proof that I can turn Dog chit into Honey . If I get this project.


 
Roach mess and blood stained walls????? Dude?? Are you bidding on the rebuild of bin ladens compound??


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Is that the same as making strawberry jam (jelly in the US) out of pig chit?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

gazman said:


> Is that the same as making strawberry jam (jelly in the US) out of pig chit?


just fyi, jam and jelly are two different things! Neither one of which should be confused with strawberry preserves.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

cazna said:


> Roach mess and blood stained walls????? Dude?? Are you bidding on the rebuild of bin ladens compound??


 Ha! Thats funny, More like good old fashion USA welfair recipiants compound. Paid for by the never broke and always making more money Obama stimulas plan. Dayum I should have been a printer.. right now I would never run out of work. Plus I would be making Real easy money !


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

G/c covered everything for me ...Yeah ..that's right !! A whole 6 sheets on this one . If that's not bad enough,,He hung It himself. I had to cut all the blisters out of the egg holes then re-screw.BUT! He covered everything.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

fr8train said:


> just fyi, jam and jelly are two different things! Neither one of which should be confused with strawberry preserves.


Sorry my mistake.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*prep*

sandys brother in law was ralph mcfarland. humble man as i ever met. but when he worked he didnt even think about the mess on the floor. course there is a difference between tapers and heart surgery. but not really. we used to go to their house and sandy and sherry would talk, while ralph and i would watch videos of his heart surgerys- really cool. he would talk me through the process. my point is ole kid if you are getting the first class job, why whine about a little bit of blood on your lapel. ralph now does doctors without boarders- he is a great human being- i am a better person for meeting that wonderful person.-made me a better taper.


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