# Machine taping vs hand taping



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I was just going to add to one of Silverstilts post in "finishing butt joints" post#195, but thought ,hell start a thread on it.

I'm not pointing fingers, but there are some that come on here and half to totally bash Machine tapers.
One misconception is we don't now how to hand tape or use hand tools. Sorry but we do.
The one biggest factor that some hand tapers don't realize is "Machines replace labour ", from factories ,to farming and to the office worker, machines have been invented to make life easier, more productive, and create cost savings. Yes they can break down, but they don't call in sick (on sanding day) they don't ask for raises, they don't jump ship to work for someone else, they don't whine and complain, and their always there for you.

Where I live, residential is all machines, very few if any hand guys,,,,why???, Because the builders know what is faster, and you can't tell me builders in general are not fussy. the machines do good work.

On the other side of the coin, there's what I call the Union,Union jobs, the big government contracts and shopping malls etc. Those are the jobs where the hand tapers go, do they use machines ??????? Nope, those guys run a old boys club, they will try to kill you if you show up with machines,, trust me, I have done it. To them you are stealing the work of ten men, that's money out of their pocket or they might fall 2 weeks short to collect unemployment insurance because of you.

Plus, someone may half to define which part of machines they hate. Some guys have every toy but the bazooka. Some only own boxes, some may only own the angle tools, Some are half machine, half by hand............We can call the half and half guys mac-hand tapers with a mac-job


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> I was just going to add to one of Silverstilts post in "finishing butt joints" post#195, but thought ,hell start a thread on it.
> 
> I'm not pointing fingers, but there are some that come on here and half to totally bash Machine tapers.
> One misconception is we don't now how to hand tape or use hand tools. Sorry but we do.
> ...


Very well put... Been there myself when working union. I must add though my experience with hand tool guys now is when they work for me after being in the union is if I send them out to a gravy job most times the first question is can you send (so & so) over there to box out the flats? Come on what is it ? You can sit there and bad mouth the boxes how inferior they are but yet you want someone to come over and do half your job for you? It kinda peeves me a bit I tell you. And then take 4 times the time it should take you to run a few beads and screws.... Thanks but no thanks... I have gotten to the point where I allow only a certain amount of hours for a job hand tools or not. Its not my problem but my employees. If I were to contract out someone building a home for me I sure would not hire any contractor that showed up with a hand saw and hammer. It would just take to long to get the job done. We always hear the hangup of how automated tools are hard on the body, well the truth is it isn't nearly as bad as the much repetition of repeated reaching and stretching when doing everything by hand. To all the hand finishers out there set in their ways I know this issue will always be debated to no avail, but at the end of the day I know what the best method is what method most Contractors expect and what will make the most money.. When starting a job why take the long and hard road... I wonder with all the lumber going into a new home how about we tell all them loggers to throw away all their equipment including chain saws and start doing their work the old fashioned way that would be ridiculous.


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

There's nothing wrong with machine tools as long as they are in the right hands, if they aren't set up right then they get a bad rap, if they are set up right and the operator knows how to fix them and look after them and knows what to watch for then the quality is to notch :thumbsup:.


----------



## suncoast drywaller (Sep 4, 2009)

I have been in this trade for 30 years. I have had a solid background in finishing with hand tools for about 20 years. I have over the last 10 years switched to automatic tools and the difference in productivity is unbelievable. As I have alot of experience in hand finishing I know what is required to achieve a good finish therefore I know what is required from the auto tools. 

In my experience the auto tools are the only the way to go for a good finish and far superior productivity.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

I hear all the time machines are no good the same story I saw a guy use them once. Recently a local guy had too many jobs so he called me for a 500 board commercial job when myself and a helper finished our join before him and 3 guys finished a 250 board house now he calls me for every house sometimes the just have to see to believe


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.:whistling2:
I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.


----------



## ding (Jan 19, 2011)

Final touch drywall said:


> There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.:whistling2:
> I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.


Post a video


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Dogs, ya cant use auto tools residential in NY. i have no problem with machines. They are fast and can do a nice job in the right hands. The draw backs I find is 
. 1. sheetrock must be prepped and prefilled.
2. Butts ( no where near same quality as hand.).
3. Seams In pefect world come out nice , but when somethings off you end up having to do by hand. metal studs with standups are the worst. 
4. i dont like the fact you have to sand screws. 
5. Thinning down mud isnt the greatest thing for longivty.
6. Semi gloss paint will scare you
7. aweful lot of sanding


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Final touch drywall said:


> There is a reason Ames went out of business here on the island.:whistling2:
> I work smarter not harder.If you saw this hand taper's system, which requires very little wiping out of tape,I bet you would have a different out look on this simple thing they call finishing wallboard.


I doubt it post a video put your money where your mouth is. If ames went out of business it was for a reason other than the way their tools worked. Simple minds are closed minds. I honestly believe that someone in the trade of taping who bad mouths automatic tools probably don't have the finesse, talent, and just like to mosey & putz along at what they do. Again closed mind is a weak mind, a sign of arrogance, weakness and stubbornness. Final touch you can live in the dark ages if you want don't really care along with anyone else that has hang ups. Myself again I would rather save some time with a whole lot better finish and use the extra time to do other things that I enjoy. Come quiting time I like to look at what I have accomplished and say yep another Complete Coat don't have to work late or I will finish that tomorrow.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

boco said:


> Dogs, ya cant use auto tools residential in NY. i have no problem with machines. They are fast and can do a nice job in the right hands. The draw backs I find is
> . 1. sheetrock must be prepped and prefilled.
> 2. Butts ( no where near same quality as hand.).
> 3. Seams In pefect world come out nice , but when somethings off you end up having to do by hand. metal studs with standups are the worst.
> ...


1 Drywall always needs to be prepped no matter what method you use.. 2 Butts will always need some hand finishing the boxes will fill in the heavy coats making it easier to hand finish final coat.... 3 no such thing as a perfect coat even finishing by hand will take extra time so if you need to clean up a flat with a knife or trowel you would anyway if you were hand finishing. 4 Don't you sand your screws after spotting them???? 5 I doubt very much if you use your mud straight out of the box... what about thinning mud down to texture never had any problems. 6 Semi gloss yes it would scare anyone but I guess that is why we would do a level 5 so that don't count. 7 Less sanding because everything is uniform and FLAT no ridges, humps, bumps or waviness.


----------



## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

Years ago I used to do all hand work, then I saw a set of tools run. I thought to myself... holy sh#t!, why doesn't everyone use these tools. Sometime later I worked for a guy that had tools and got to run them and realized how much faster and easier they were to use. Not to mention the quality of finish that they produced.

I still feel that before a person goes out and runs tools they should have finished by hand. Hand finishisn is both a skill and art that should be appreciated by all, but running tools with the knowledge of hand finishing one can achieve results of high standard.

I had to make many sacrifices to get my own set of tools. I wouldn't get rid of them right now for anything. Since I got my Drywall Master tools(no Tube) I am so happy to be able to finish a job fastser and easier with great quality. Since the purchase of the set I have bought a nail spotter and this coming week am buying a used tube. 

Even though using the tools, I still have several knives and pans that I will use thuoughout the job, I still do final coat on butts by hand. I use knives to square up 3 way corners, etc. The tools do the work but, the hand tools are still a critical part of finishing for me.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I realize Final Touch and Boco that there are Unions where you live that prohibit the use of such tools and that I can understand, but if you were to live in an area other that where you do now I am sure you both would rethink your methods and techniques... I am sure where you live you have never really had the chance to use other methods so I can see why you defend hand tools only.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Years ago I used to do all hand work, then I saw a set of tools run. I thought to myself... holy sh#t!, why doesn't everyone use these tools. Sometime later I worked for a guy that had tools and got to run them and realized how much faster and easier they were to use. Not to mention the quality of finish that they produced.
> 
> I still feel that before a person goes out and runs tools they should have finished by hand. Hand finishisn is both a skill and art that should be appreciated by all, but running tools with the knowledge of hand finishing one can achieve results of high standard.
> 
> ...


 Perfect post and to the point. I agree 100 percent, you will definitely see a difference in quality of someone who started out with hand tools to someone who only started out with the automatic tools they tend to be more critical of what should be left and how it is left to achieve the very best job .


----------



## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> Perfect post and to the point. I agree 100 percent, you will definitely see a difference in quality of someone who started out with hand tools to someone who only started out with the automatic tools they tend to be more critical of what should be left and how it is left to achieve the very best job .


 
I once worked for a company that hired a few young guys with no experience, these newbies got to run boxes..... Anyway one of these newbies came and worked with me for awhile. The only thing he knew was that he had to push the box against the rock. He had no idea why thing were done in such mannerisms. Heck, he didn't even know why he was to start with the smaller size box. He asked me why we always split the but joints on first coat with the boxes. 

Basically this young individual was trained to be a robot and do things just because he was told without any knowledge or reasoning behind them.


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Plus, someone may half to define which part of machines they hate. Some guys have every toy but the bazooka. Some only own boxes, some may only own the angle tools, Some are half machine, half by hand............We can call the half and half guys mac-hand tapers with a mac-job


 I'm glad you posted this thread I always wondered if I should consider myself a machine or hand finisher. Until recently I always taped with a banjo rolled and skimmed corners then boxed all angles. I have always boxed my seams, but when it comes too bead, butts, and screws I always finish by hand.

I really can't tell you why it took me so long to buy a bazooka I always knew they were faster than banjo I guess I just enjoy running banjo plus I'm fast with it I normally run a 3 guy crew and I can always stay well ahead of the roller/skimmer and wipe out guy. I finally bought bazooka hoping for less wear and tear on my body and less time on stilts.

Seams I have always boxed I still use 8'' 10'' 12'' boxes in that sequence I am willing too try some other methods I have read on this site too get away from 8'' box. Hopefully they work 8'' box sucks even the deepest i could find still doesn't hold enough mud.

I have tried boxing butts before and unless butts were hollow too start with I could never get a good enough finish. It takes alot more time by hand but my method of running butts (page 6 post #114 finishing butt joints) is what I find works best for me. However I will third coat butts on a textured ceiling with 12'' box.

As far as bead I'm still in the dinosaur ages metal bead for all my 90's trim-tex for all bullnose, chamfers,etc... 8'', 10'', and 12'' knife by hand.

Screws are all by hand `I have never owned or seen a screw spotter box so I can't say anything bad about them just always done it by hand. it is also a good job for a rookie, spotting screws getting the feel of using a knife and mud.

I have always said I was a hybrid but bottom line is I get work and have a name for quality.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I have seen similar circumstances myself. It is a dirty shame that the most reason we find that it all boils down to is production with quality. Sometimes it would be nice just to slow it down a notch instead of always balls to the walls.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

....


----------



## capspackle (Dec 12, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> I realize Final Touch and Boco that there are Unions where you live that prohibit the use of such tools and that I can understand, but if you were to live in an area other that where you do now I am sure you both would rethink your methods and techniques... I am sure where you live you have never really had the chance to use other methods so I can see why you defend hand tools only.


 
I live in NJ and am a member of IUPAT Local 1976.
I don't know about NYC but upstate NY and all of NJ the union allows the use 
of machines and has for quite some time.


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

*why do I keep hearing "get rid of the 8""*



cdwoodcox said:


> I'm glad you posted this thread I always wondered if I should consider myself a machine or hand finisher. Until recently I always taped with a banjo rolled and skimmed corners then boxed all angles. I have always boxed my seams, but when it comes too bead, butts, and screws I always finish by hand.
> 
> I really can't tell you why it took me so long to buy a bazooka I always knew they were faster than banjo I guess I just enjoy running banjo plus I'm fast with it I normally run a 3 guy crew and I can always stay well ahead of the roller/skimmer and wipe out guy. I finally bought bazooka hoping for less wear and tear on my body and less time on stilts.
> 
> ...


very similar approach.Do you box all seams 3 times?run metal 3 times?must be level 5 finish. I still use metal also.Have tried all the tape ons just am faster with metal.I have found a slick way of stapeling metal corners on steel studs:thumbsup:want to hear bout it??


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

chris said:


> very similar approach.Do you box all seams 3 times?run metal 3 times?must be level 5 finish. I still use metal also.Have tried all the tape ons just am faster with metal.I have found a slick way of stapeling metal corners on steel studs:thumbsup:want to hear bout it??


Yes Chris everything gets 3 coats I might only 2 coat seams on some garage ceilings. 
Whats your way of stapling metal over metal I usually screw metal over metal. Staples I use on wood framing are 1/4 crown 1 1/2 senco staples staple about every 2''.


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

*3/4 " stapels for 5/8*



cdwoodcox said:


> Yes Chris everything gets 3 coats I might only 2 coat seams on some garage ceilings.
> Whats your way of stapling metal over metal I usually screw metal over metal. Staples I use on wood framing are 1/4 crown 1 1/2 senco staples staple about every 2''.


 if you slant ur gun slightly away away from corner it sinks perfect note it does not penetrate steel but splinters into drywall and holds very well. I still may run thru with a cordless and zap screws in high traffic areas. Been diong for yrs now and have had 0 problems. takes a lil practice {angeling stapeler just right} but becomes 2nd nature after youve hung 10 to 20 pcs. You can also use 5/8 stapels but find the 3\4 works better once you have dialed it in . good luck dont tell competition in your area give yourself an edge:thumbsup:


----------



## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

2 buck you sure know how to get the hand tapers ass in a knot :thumbup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

capspackle said:


> I live in NJ and am a member of IUPAT Local 1976.
> I don't know about NYC but upstate NY and all of NJ the union allows the use
> of machines and has for quite some time.


which type of use?????
We had the Iupat come in on us 5 or 6 years ago, In the residential market we use machines, but were p/w, there's no way they could of taken us over if we were told to stop using the machines. Thats why I said Union, Union guys in my original post,(government jobs etc) they do everything by hand still, I don't know all the reasons why but....I think it's one part the Union wants it that way, machines replace workers so that's lost money for them. There's T&M (time and material) Something about head counts, there's something about x amount of work has to have x amount of tapers.There's other reasons why, but a union union guy would have the answers.

SO is it like that where you are capspackle, resi workers p/w etc......


----------



## BuildTheWorld (Apr 16, 2011)

Where I work the issue is between Pan and Knife guys and Hawk and Trowel guys. If you cant use a Hawk and Trowel and dont know what a Darby is then get out of the way. Machines are obviously faster but if you gotta know how to use them and read butts and joints correctly. Our system is one guy runs a box while another follows and compensates. All butts are hand coated and we can do flats this way on an average 2000 Sq. ft. floor plan in about 30 - 40 min.


----------



## capspackle (Dec 12, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> which type of use?????
> We had the Iupat come in on us 5 or 6 years ago, In the residential market we use machines, but were p/w, there's no way they could of taken us over if we were told to stop using the machines. Thats why I said Union, Union guys in my original post,(government jobs etc) they do everything by hand still, I don't know all the reasons why but....I think it's one part the Union wants it that way, machines replace workers so that's lost money for them. There's T&M (time and material) Something about head counts, there's something about x amount of work has to have x amount of tapers.There's other reasons why, but a union union guy would have the answers.
> 
> SO is it like that where you are capspackle, resi workers p/w etc......


No I don't have all the answers.
Here in NJ the union only does commercial jobs. They do allow the use of machines in any way you see fit. Rite now the company I work for subbed out 
a big job in Montclair NJ, dormitory at the collage 300 rooms if I'm not mistaken. They gave it to a sub from Long Island, NY. They are running the machines there, But the sub had to hire some men from the jersey local a 50/50 split. Two guys I know are working there. They tell me their fire taping, doing all the sanding between every coat, coating all screw, taping and finishing all mechanical room.
The reason you don't see machine on these jobs is the company would have to supply them, as they do stilts, for insurance reasons. Maybe they can't justify the cost of buying machines for say 15 to 20 jobs running at the same time who know who cares.
I come from a p/w back ground, thats the way I learned and that the way I think on the job. As a foreman I get X amount of man hours to do the job.
Go over the budget to often and you wont be a foreman long.:yes:
As I said in my intro I tape with a banjo use it all the time. Banjos are cheap and faster then hand taping, but I'm not going to spend thousands on a set of machine tools to use on a company job and not get some form of compensation for it.
I hope I answered your question.


----------



## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

....


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

You know your a hand taper when the arthritis sets in at 42inch:inch:.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> I realize Final Touch and Boco that there are Unions where you live that prohibit the use of such tools and that I can understand, but if you were to live in an area other that where you do now I am sure you both would rethink your methods and techniques... I am sure where you live you have never really had the chance to use other methods so I can see why you defend hand tools only.


 Actually i have worked all over east coast. Residential here hand taping is expected. Union guys here in upstate ny is usually split 50/50 machine and hand. Some guys do some dont. I actually own and use a set of columbia that i use for commercial where a level 3 finish is required. I am working on getting a 1000 board job with drop ceilings right now and you bet your butt if I get it. I will be using machines. I still feel machine taping isnt the gravy train you guys all claim. Its hard work running bazooka and boxes.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

moore said:


> You know your a hand taper when the arthritis sets in at 42inch:inch:.


 I dont really like painting but gives the body a break. I actually taught myself to spray, cut in and roll left handed even though i am a righty. i use a pan and knife to tape but use hawk and trowl with trowel in left hand when doing texture, plaster or dryvit. An old timer told me to do this years ago and i thank him for it. Got to mix it up every so often.


----------



## jmr (Mar 22, 2010)

Well tuned tools work fantastic with a very small margin of error. Aside from incredible productivity I actually hate running my tools.. running bead and butts are my fav... id pull by hand all day long if I was getting paid for it.. but getting paid little and givin 3 days to finish a house by myself doesn't allow for it.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

jmr said:


> givin 3 days to finish a house by myself doesn't allow for it.


 Wow. You must make a ton of cash. Then you also have plenty of time to do another house in same week and get sun off.


----------



## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

*????? for the hand finishers*

Here is a question for all of the hand finishers.

Do you wet your paper tape before putting it on the wall or ceiling?
If so, what is the exact reasoning behind doing so?

Many years ago, a guy showed me to wet the tape before putting it on. The only thing that I can really say that I noticed was that it wiped down really slick with little effort. Basically it seemed to reduce the friction when wiping.

Does the wetting of tape make a better or quicker bond with the compound?


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Here is a question for all of the hand finishers.
> 
> Do you wet your paper tape before putting it on the wall or ceiling?
> If so, what is the exact reasoning behind doing so?
> ...


MT. I have never heard of wetting the tape down. Sounds like a dumba$$ move to me ,, but there are a lot of things here I've never heard of.. wetting the tape is like back skimming ,, not good... I do see where it would help to hide the tape on skim,,,, maybe?? You should take this up with the mesh tapers,, there joints NEVER crack!!:whistling2::yes:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Wait,, wait,,


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Myron doesnt wet his tape so i dont.  I have heard of people doing this but only DIYers


----------



## ding (Jan 19, 2011)

boco said:


> Myron doesnt wet his tape so i dont. I have heard of people doing this but only DIYers


Hey, I dont wet my tape  but then again I am a third generation taper :whistling2:


----------



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

M T Buckets Painting said:


> Does the wetting of tape make a better or quicker bond with the compound?



No. It's just a friction thing. Some people seem to think it can stretch if wet.:blink:
Looks nice when wiped but when it's dry you're back to normal. Pointless for pros !


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

boco said:


> Myron doesnt wet his tape so i dont. I have heard of people doing this but only DIYers


tape is wet while your wiping down ,, right?


----------



## jmr (Mar 22, 2010)

boco said:


> Wow. You must make a ton of cash. Then you also have plenty of time to do another house in same week and get sun off.


ha i wish.. no such thing as a day off or weekend these days.. long days, 7 days a week if i can get it. if i knock out a couple a week consistently yeah i can still get decen't payroll. the money is pretty low in new residential though.. without tools there is no way 1 dude could knock out 150-200 sheets in 3 days..


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jmr said:


> ha i wish.. no such thing as a day off or weekend these days.. long days, 7 days a week if i can get it. if i knock out a couple a week consistently yeah i can still get decen't payroll. the money is pretty low in new residential though.. without tools there is no way 1 dude could knock out 150-200 sheets in 3 days..


1 dude 200 sheets ,, 2 weeks tops ,, finishing
the hanging 2 days 4 man crew.. sorry ... hand finisher .. were always slow..:yes::yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't believe it when guys say they are punching most houses out in 4 days. They must be dealing with blind painters or something.

They must be doing granny flats or something, I find today's houses are way more complicated and full of crazy details than they use to be. I don't think I could trust a house done in 4 days, it probably hasn't fully dried yet..


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

The minimum I will turn over a house is 11 days. even then i fear delayed shrinkage. Any thing more then 3000sq ft i give myself 14 days. your right most homes these days have vaulted ceilings and horizontal bead. Not even mentioning garages that need to be taped or at least firetaped. For condos and apartments i can turn over 8000-9000sq ft with a 2man crew every 4 days. For this I use lots 240 box heaters, dehumidifiers and fans. Also try and get evrything strung out with bead coated on friday so it can set up over the weekend.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

boco said:


> The minimum I will turn over a house is 11 days. even then i fear delayed shrinkage. Any thing more then 3000sq ft i give myself 14 days. your right most homes these days have vaulted ceilings and horizontal bead. Not even mentioning garages that need to be taped or at least firetaped. For condos and apartments i can turn over 8000-9000sq ft with a 2man crew every 4 days. For this I use lots 240 box heaters, dehumidifiers and fans. Also try and get evrything strung out with bead coated on friday so it can set up over the weekend.


 I am assuming the 3000' is the actual floor area, but even so that would run about 240 sheets give or take that is only120 sheets per week. I could see where that would be comfortable if you were running everything by hand. But where does it fit in profit wise? Are you making any money or just wages? It use to be a guy could do very well but in today's marked I don't understand how 120 sheets a week could pay the bills. Perhaps if you have no employees you may get by but still don't leave much left over for any toys or for a rainy day. 2 man crew 9000' of rock every 4 days i should hope so that is only 180 sheets or 90 per man. I guess we all have different production levels that we expect.


----------



## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

boco said:


> The minimum I will turn over a house is 11 days. even then i fear delayed shrinkage. Any thing more then 3000sq ft i give myself 14 days. your right most homes these days have vaulted ceilings and horizontal bead. Not even mentioning garages that need to be taped or at least firetaped. For condos and apartments i can turn over 8000-9000sq ft with a 2man crew every 4 days. For this I use lots 240 box heaters, dehumidifiers and fans. Also try and get evrything strung out with bead coated on friday so it can set up over the weekend.


When we were busy doing 2 houses a month[plus small jobs ] myself and helper were hanging ,finishing,and priming 240-300 sheet homes in 11days. Damm I miss those days:yes:


----------



## jmr (Mar 22, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't believe it when guys say they are punching most houses out in 4 days. They must be dealing with blind painters or something.
> 
> They must be doing granny flats or something, I find today's houses are way more complicated and full of crazy details than they use to be. I don't think I could trust a house done in 4 days, it probably hasn't fully dried yet..


The homes I'm talking about are pretty simple cracker jack boxes.. nothing too fancy, 2 coat flat paint.. builders supply big industrial heaters that'll damn near dry a house out over night...


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> I am assuming the 3000' is the actual floor area, but even so that would run about 240 sheets give or take that is only120 sheets per week. I could see where that would be comfortable if you were running everything by hand. But where does it fit in profit wise? Are you making any money or just wages? It use to be a guy could do very well but in today's marked I don't understand how 120 sheets a week could pay the bills. Perhaps if you have no employees you may get by but still don't leave much left over for any toys or for a rainy day. 2 man crew 9000' of rock every 4 days i should hope so that is only 180 sheets or 90 per man. I guess we all have different production levels that we expect.


 Geez you make me feel like a loser. I am just giving you some actually numbers for a high quility finish. I have been called a lot of things but slow was never one of them. i dont know how many 3 bdroom condos you have done but everyone i have done has at least 6 closets. 2 baths and are usually cut up pretty good. (9000sq @.40 = $3600.00) less 64 hrs labor @ $20.00= $1280 less $500 materials still leaves me with $1800.00 for comp and taxes.


----------



## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't believe it when guys say they are punching most houses out in 4 days.


I've done this 100's of times with a helper. I'll agree and say it's too fast ! Any problems were always the gc's fault because that's the deal I would always have with them if they wanted it done that quick.

Working on my own for 15 years now and I'm good for 10,000sq in 8 days or less depending on the amount of fancy crap of course.


----------



## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

boco said:


> Geez you make me feel like a loser. I am just giving you some actually numbers for a high quility finish. I have been called a lot of things but slow was never one of them. i dont know how many 3 bdroom condos you have done but everyone i have done has at least 6 closets. 2 baths and are usually cut up pretty good. (9000sq @.40 = $3600.00) less 64 hrs labor @ $20.00= $1280 less $500 materials still leaves me with $1800.00 for comp and taxes.


 Was not to make you feel that way just saying everyone has there set production. The 20 per hour is that what you pay your help that is what I am assuming. And is this a complete job texturing and sanding also? 9000' home you should be bidding out at least $5600 + just taping and finishing not including the hanging. But then again depending where you live it all depends. If you are happy good for you. What is your work comp & taxes after your other expenses? I guess if you can make it work I say go for it.


----------



## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

silverstilts said:


> Was not to make you feel that way just saying everyone has there set production. The 20 per hour is that what you pay your help that is what I am assuming. And is this a complete job texturing and sanding also? 9000' home you should be bidding out at least $5600 + just taping and finishing not including the hanging. But then again depending where you live it all depends. If you are happy good for you. What is your work comp & taxes after your other expenses? I guess if you can make it work I say go for it.


 I think we talking about something different. I am talking condos (Taped only) not residential houses. The last project i did was around 110,000.00 sq ft with 24 units. . its steady work for a small crew for 3 months. Theres also alot more to it then units themselves. Firetaping, stairwells and a parking garage. Overhead is pretty low as i do everything but taxes and payroll myself Taxes I have no clue, but comp is 14%. It also is more then 9000 sqft per week cause on day 5 another 2 units get strung with bead coated. Anyways i would love to get more per ft on apartments and condos, but that is where the market in my area is at for prices. Ofcourse your weekly footages will be higher in larger homes. Like I was saying before same amount of closets and utility rooms in condos as houses but even smaller.


----------

