# Double boxing results



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I'll try to get some vids out of this next job on various topics. But to start with here are some pics of our seams, 

The firs is our 8" block coat double boxed and sanded. Gauged with a FLAT 12" knife.

The second is our 12" skim coat double boxed and sanded.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

You sand that nice after boxing with an 8"?

Is that the finished job or do you box again?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Nope, that was just a skim sand to get rid of laps and boogers!
We only box twice. If it needs more, it's because it was a bad seam, high shoulder, or something of the like.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

I'd be careful sanding between box coats, dust could make ya coats delaminate ,I just scrap the ends.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> I'd be careful sanding between box coats, dust could make ya coats delaminate ,I just scrap the ends.


Been there, tryed that, Yes oversanding will leave dust and can cause delamination, when sanding with the vac or when rolling with paint, But the trick is, Rough sanding (Thankyou 2 buck) one or two swipes with a 120 or so grit, Even 100g. only knock back the high spots, It does work stopper, It took me a bit to get my head around it, Then you get some sweet tight and even boxing happening for you with less trash and scratches from the blabe :yes:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Ya I don't pre-sand anything! Ever. lol.
But then again, we back blade behind our flats.
So to each his own.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> Been there, tryed that, Yes oversanding will leave dust and can cause delamination, when sanding with the vac or when rolling with paint, But the trick is, Rough sanding (Thankyou 2 buck) one or two swipes with a 120 or so grit, Even 100g. only knock back the high spots, It does work stopper, It took me a bit to get my head around it, Then you get some sweet tight and even boxing happening for you with less trash and scratches from the blabe :yes:



I scrap the ends , don't sand and it boxes up good as Gold, each to his own I guess


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Stand ups there's a bit more reason to rough sand. Joints off/bigger lat mark, and crap on the edges from holding box down to do bottom half of the joint. We always sand in between coats, 2 passes 100g paper :thumbsup:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

You guys nailed it, this is just a rough sand to get rid of the trash. The main reason we do it is, did you ever sand through your skim coat and expose the lap mark below? Try sanding that out, can't be done.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> You guys nailed it, this is just a rough sand to get rid of the trash. The main reason we do it is, did you ever sand through your skim coat and expose the lap mark below? Try sanding that out, can't be done.


Like try sanding through your skim and sanding out the 2nd? Is that what you mean?


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

fr8train said:


> You guys nailed it, this is just a rough sand to get rid of the trash. The main reason we do it is, did you ever sand through your skim coat and expose the lap mark below? Try sanding that out, can't be done.


You do some pretty good looking rough sanding there fr8train.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Precision: That's exactly what I'm talking about

MudShark: Thanks, PA has been rough sanding the flats and the like w/ his power sander.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

What... a power sander... thats cheating.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

fr8train said:


> You guys nailed it, this is just a rough sand to get rid of the trash. The main reason we do it is, did you ever sand through your skim coat and expose the lap mark below? Try sanding that out, can't be done.


I find that happens more often when you use two different types of mud.
I use Machine Mud and I never have that problem.
If you use two different types of mud for your 2nd and skim than that might happen more often. And then its exactly what you said, good luck sanding the 2nd through the skim :no:
Or if you use a setting compound for the 2nd, then it might also come through. I just use one mud for everything! I love it!


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

fr8train said:


> You guys nailed it, this is just a rough sand to get rid of the trash. The main reason we do it is, did you ever sand through your skim coat and expose the lap mark below? Try sanding that out, can't be done.


Can be done, even if the lap mark below is setting compound and the top coat premix, I use the one compound when machine finishing so there is no lap mark..as the lap mark is surrounded by the same compound that is made from.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

What can I say... We're all about quality.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

We tape with USG AP, and coat with LaFarge Rapid Coat. But even slight differences in the consistency from one bucket to another can change its sanding characteristics. We don't have a major problem with it, but we don't want to, that's why we give it a light sand between coats. I find the time lost in sanding is more than made up for by having a 'clean' surface to work on, and not having to pick trash out of my box all the time.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fr8train said:


> We tape with USG AP, and coat with LaFarge Rapid Coat. But even slight differences in the consistency from one bucket to another can change its sanding characteristics. We don't have a major problem with it, but we don't want to, that's why we give it a light sand between coats. I find the time lost in sanding is more than made up for by having a 'clean' surface to work on, and not having to pick trash out of my box all the time.


I agree with the rough sanding, I find even using the same mud, and using different amounts of water to your mix, will affect it's sanding properties.

But not understanding when your doing all your coating, are you dd boxing the 8" when wet or dry, and same with the 12".

We go 10" well wet. The main thing were watching for is the mud to shrink back a bit, Since IMO, 80% of mud shrinkage occurs with in the 1st half hour depending upon environment. So once you see the line of tape appear through your 1st pass of the 10" bed coat, hit it again well wet. also lets you see where the high and low shoulders are. (more so on stand ups, walls framed on wood over 8' in height, and ceilings).

The next day, the flats will almost look finished, since you made a second pass over wet mud that has shrunk already. You will see no shrink back of the mud on the flat tapes.... We give them a quick buzz sand (lite touch) then give them a tight skim coat (sanding coat) with the 12" box. 

Got a taping buddy who does same thing, except he uses the 8" box instead of the 10". Says the 8" is more easy on the body and to run, but you half to be more careful with it when loading.

So are you guys applying the same principals


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> I agree with the rough sanding, I find even using the same mud, and using different amounts of water to your mix, will affect it's sanding properties.
> 
> But not understanding when your doing all your coating, are you dd boxing the 8" when wet or dry, and same with the 12".
> 
> ...


Machine Mud sucks!?!?!? :furious:
2buck......we got a problem man...
Take it back! :cursing:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Machine Mud sucks!?!?!? :furious:
> 2buck......we got a problem man...
> Take it back! :cursing:


Mudshark started it


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Machine Mud sucks!?!?!? :furious:


I started using Machine Mud in the late 90's. It sure sucked back then ! Might have to give it another try sometime and see if it's improved any.

What selection of mud brands do you get in Sudbury PT ?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

mudslingr said:


> I started using Machine Mud in the late 90's. It sure sucked back then ! Might have to give it another try sometime and see if it's improved any.
> 
> What selection of mud brands do you get in Sudbury PT ?


Well I would have been like 10 years old back then so I certainly can't testify to how it was at that time. If you say it sucked, well it probably did! But now, its the only mud I use!!

Here's a few brands you see around fairly often. CGC brand names.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Here's a few Pro Roc names you see around here too.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Well, IMO, CGC is the worst crap available next to the crap the boys in the US use. Have you tried the Pro Roc ? 
Even Stynko is better than CGC.(can't believe I just said that)


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Its Synco for taping and Pro-Roc for finishing for me. :yes:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I'll give the yellow taping Synko some credit. It shrinks nicely !:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Well, IMO, CGC is the worst crap available next to the crap the boys in the US use. Have you tried the Pro Roc ?
> Even Stynko is better than CGC.(can't believe I just said that)


agreed:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The red cgc gets a ok, will use it if you half to, but give me the pro-roc any day

Pro-roc changed the orange box to red, a few months ago too


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

CGC and Synco are the same products marketed differently for different area's?



> CGC and SYNKO Ready-Mixed Joint Compounds are high quality drying-type products which are used for taping, filling and finishing joints, trims and surfaces of gypsum board. These vinyl-based forumations are specially premixed to a creamy, smooth consistency and are ready to use right from the container. They are easy to apply and are available for hand or machine-tool applications. Protect wet joints and product from freezing. Choose CGC and SYNKO products for professional results.
> 
> Ideal consistency for machine application
> Formulated for taping, filling and finishing
> ...


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> CGC and Synco are the same products marketed differently for different area's?
> 
> [/LIST]


Sounds that way but they sure are NOT the same product by formula ! We get them both around here.

And how do you use a stiff block straight out of the box ?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

mudslingr said:


> Well, IMO, CGC is the worst crap available next to the crap the boys in the US use. Have you tried the Pro Roc ?
> Even Stynko is better than CGC.(can't believe I just said that)


What really!? I love CGC! Mostly just because they make Machine Mud though :laughing: And ya I've tried Pro Roc, it was okay..I used to run with their 2-Kote back in the day! It finished really nicely. Back then the boxes were green. But I didn't like it for taping...It didn't have enough glue. But then I discovered Machine Mud!! It spread and filled just like the 2-kote by Pro Roc, but with a little more glue so my tapes held better. 



Mudshark said:


> Its Synco for taping and Pro-Roc for finishing for me. :yes:


I used to do that too. Tried it for a bit. I'd use green box cgc for taping because it has so much glue in it. And then would use just machine mud for finishing. But eventually just started ordering machine mud for everything. Allot of guys around Sudbury use Machine Mud. I dont know what to tell you guys. They're constantly sold out.



2buckcanuck said:


> The red cgc gets a ok, will use it if you half to, but give me the pro-roc any day
> 
> Pro-roc changed the orange box to red, a few months ago too


I hated the CGC Red! Or beige, whatever you wanna call it! I hate it! I find you have to water it down so much...yuck! Tried it once, and it was terrible. Unless there was actually something wrong with that box or something....maybe it froze before...I dont know! But it was just brutal! Never again!


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