# Level 5



## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

Here's a Link to pictures of my level 5 ceiling. 

It was my first time doing it.

I have learned a couple things.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.685651518127525.1073741833.604939942865350&type=1


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## KiwiInNorway (Oct 31, 2012)

A smooth finish said:


> Here's a Link to pictures of my level 5 ceiling.
> 
> It was my first time doing it.
> 
> ...



Did you spray it on or use a roller?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

So what did you learn? :whistling2:


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

I used that sheetrock first coat primer. It worked really good.


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## KiwiInNorway (Oct 31, 2012)

A smooth finish said:


> I used that sheetrock first coat primer. It worked really good.


Weird, I thought tuff hide was their level 5 product. But after reading about 1st coat primer on their website, it looks like that product equalizes porosity too.

Bit confused now. Can anyone clarify?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

KiwiInNorway said:


> Weird, I thought tuff hide was their level 5 product. But after reading about 1st coat primer on their website, it looks like that product equalizes porosity too.
> 
> Bit confused now. Can anyone clarify?


I havent heard of that stuff but any primer/spray on level 5 product claims they level porosity, And i guess they do, Those products make all the surface uniform yes, But think about this, Do they FILL and level........................No they dont, They are only a thin flim, So i guess there claim to level 5 is correct by the book but as tapers we know a little better than that, What if the board has a bruise, dent,scratch or seam edge that needs a little more etc that you missed with your level 4 after a light check in prep for your spray or roll on primer type so called level 5 coating, Will that dent scratch etc still be there after all that cost and effort with those products :yes:


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i'm just curious why that room required a level 5 finish? it looked like some poorly lit room from the photos.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

First coat USG is just a primer. Its does work OK butt sprays like ass. Its definately not a level 5 finish alternative.


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## A smooth finish (Mar 19, 2012)

carpentaper said:


> i'm just curious why that room required a level 5 finish? it looked like some poorly lit room from the photos.


They havent put in the can lights yet. hes going to cut them in after. Home owner is a electrician.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

boco said:


> First coat USG is just a primer. Its does work OK butt sprays like ass. Its definately not a level 5 finish alternative.


" First Coat Primer " I believe was the first product around to help achieve smooth wall. Its the only stuff we have ever used for spraying level 5 and I thought it was good stuff. I did not know they made it anymore. It does require a big pump and lightly thinning helps. What products do you use that work better?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

We have used Rucoat "Equalizer Plus" and TWI products "Spray-Plast". TWI products is out of Florida and will ship their product to your supplier if you want it. We have used a lot of the equalizer plus in the past with good results but it seems that the Spray-Plast is a bit better.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

chris said:


> " First Coat Primer " I believe was the first product around to help achieve smooth wall. Its the only stuff we have ever used for spraying level 5 and I thought it was good stuff. I did not know they made it anymore. It does require a big pump and lightly thinning helps. What products do you use that work better?


 I think theres 2 products with the name first coat by USG. The tuff hide is the level 5. First coat primer is the other. I dont like either. I like the builder solutions by SWP. Spray on heavy and its self leveling so no backroll is needed. Most level 5 products are tough on pumps but having a ceramic ball and a graco mark V will let you spray without taxing the hell out of your unit.


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## Pytlik (Jan 14, 2013)

thefinisher said:


> We have used Rucoat "Equalizer Plus" and TWI products "Spray-Plast". TWI products is out of Florida and will ship their product to your supplier if you want it. We have used a lot of the equalizer plus in the past with good results but it seems that the Spray-Plast is a bit better.


what is spray-plast ? paint or some kind of mud ?


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## KiwiInNorway (Oct 31, 2012)

Pytlik said:


> what is spray-plast ? paint or some kind of mud ?


http://twiproducts.com/level-5-primers/


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Pytlik said:


> what is spray-plast ? paint or some kind of mud ?


It is a level 5 primer/surfacer. Makes for a nice finish.


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## Pytlik (Jan 14, 2013)

sprayed or it can also be rolled on, what about afterwards, you have to sand or are surfaces ready for paint or wallpaper.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Where are you guys picking up the spray plast? Also How much per 5 gal?


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Pytlik said:


> sprayed or it can also be rolled on, what about afterwards, you have to sand or are surfaces ready for paint or wallpaper.


They make a spray on level 5 and a roll on level 5 surfacer. Personally we spray as it leaves a nice even coat. Although, we have never tried the roll on product.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

boco said:


> Where are you guys picking up the spray plast? Also How much per 5 gal?


You have to get your supplier to order from TWI Products :thumbsup:. Also we pay $36 per bucket. One bucket covers 10 sheets.


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## Pytlik (Jan 14, 2013)

thefinisher said:


> You have to get your supplier to order from TWI Products :thumbsup:. Also we pay $36 per bucket. One bucket covers 10 sheets.


it sounds like a great product.. but still not sure how to use it.. there is one product for painted walls and one for wallpaper ?

I would really like to try it out, and spray it..


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## Shelwyn (Apr 10, 2015)

We're trying out spray plast tomorrow they're going to demo it found this topic on Google I'll report back results but it sounds good.


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## Shelwyn (Apr 10, 2015)

http://imgur.com/iAK2lx9
Pallet of the stuff here. Sounds alright needs to be a complete level 4 with no real room for error. Going to spray tomorrow hopefully we can take a video. 

Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Shelwyn said:


> We're trying out spray plast tomorrow they're going to demo it found this topic on Google I'll report back results but it sounds good.


Spray plast pretty good stuff however it can be a bit difficult to spray properly. Don't put too much on to begin with and always go back and cross hatch. That stuff is like bazooka mud when you first open it up lol. IMO though, sprayplast still needs a proper sealer put over it because it does act so much like mud. sucks up paint like crazy.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

To achieve best results for level 5 
Note:
Old methods still need prime before paint.
Spraying plaster does not self level needs to be worked after the fact.

New level 5 products save time and labor


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Mudstar said:


> To achieve best results for level 5
> Note:
> Old methods still need prime before paint.
> Spraying plaster does not self level needs to be worked after the fact.
> ...


You don't understand. Spray-Plast is a product like USG Tuff Hide, Magnum level coat, or Rucoat equalizer plus. It is a primer/surface. It is not plaster by any means. If anything it is taping mud with some paint in it. If you want old method then go with a roll skim which is better fo leveling things out. If You just want to prevent flashing then a primer/surface will work great. OUr most recent level 5 projects have just been roll skimmed and pole sanded. Old school but comes out really nice.


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

I personally have always done my level 5 by hand with hawk and trowel.On barrel etc single tight skim, scraped texture usually 2 coats. But now a few tapers have invested in the biggest dam sprayers and they are running thinned mud through it for level 5. Ive watched them do it and it concerns me about the amount of water they use to push the mud through a sprayer. Not to mention they are telling me prep the ceiling for texture and we'll do the rest. How is that level 5 if you skip 4.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

thefinisher said:


> You don't understand. Spray-Plast is a product like USG Tuff Hide, Magnum level coat, or Rucoat equalizer plus. It is a primer/surface. It is not plaster by any means. If anything it is taping mud with some paint in it. If you want old method then go with a roll skim which is better fo leveling things out. If You just want to prevent flashing then a primer/surface will work great. OUr most recent level 5 projects have just been roll skimmed and pole sanded. Old school but comes out really nice.


We have never used a primer over here!:blink:
First coat of paint then pole sand then finish coat!:thumbsup:


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## Zendik (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm currently working for a GC on a high end retail project.
There seem to be some confusion with these guys on what a level 5 actually is.
I'm kind of blown away by it all.
A level 5 finish shouldn't be dependant on lighting conditions or paint. If I can see the joints it is NOT level 5. If indeed we can see the joints do you guys think the lighting or paint will help in making it look level 5?
Please let it rip as these guys really need to know exactly what a level 5 is...


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

I have had a level 5 wall once show a join only cause it had a massive fluorescent globe and if the wall is out then a 1mm top coat cant fix a wall being out sorry


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Zendik said:


> I'm currently working for a GC on a high end retail project.
> There seem to be some confusion with these guys on what a level 5 actually is.
> I'm kind of blown away by it all.
> A level 5 finish shouldn't be dependant on lighting conditions or paint. If I can see the joints it is NOT level 5. If indeed we can see the joints do you guys think the lighting or paint will help in making it look level 5?
> Please let it rip as these guys really need to know exactly what a level 5 is...


You say see the joints.

Do you mean the joints show through the primer and Paint?
Or The joints are humped ? 

I've seen some painters just put two coats of flat on new board . The board itself bleeds through in the right light ..It's not just the joints you see it's the board itself.


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

exactly moore its the texture difference between the drywall paper and the mud. The darker the color paint or crappy paint the worse it shows. Level 5 is a skim coat of mud to make it all one texture. New produces i.e. paint + mud mixtures essentally are replacing the hand coat skim. As for level 5 correcting bad joint etc its minimal. I personally do aesthetic corrections before a level 5 and its very expensive to do. There is a line between taping and corrections that every taper should know otherwise we get the blame for everything.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Zendik said:


> I'm currently working for a GC on a high end retail project.
> There seem to be some confusion with these guys on what a level 5 actually is.
> I'm kind of blown away by it all.
> A level 5 finish shouldn't be dependant on lighting conditions or paint. If I can see the joints it is NOT level 5. If indeed we can see the joints do you guys think the lighting or paint will help in making it look level 5?
> Please let it rip as these guys really need to know exactly what a level 5 is...


Level 5 should be a flat wall. No hollow spots near corner bead or along joints. No crowned joints either. A straight edge should look pretty good when held against the wall or ceiling (provided it isn't radiused by design). And all blemishes at even smaller scales should be taken care of. To achieve this kind of wall, some professional shimming should be done on framed walls long before the finisher shows up.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> To achieve this kind of wall, some professional shimming should be done on framed walls long before the finisher shows up.


You mean before the hangers show up!



No drywall finish Is level. Plaster is level ...Drywall Is not ! Unless you go through the pains to make It level ...With the material and time that would cost ! You won't be working much!


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

Level 5 is not a flat wall. It is a finish a skim coat suggested for critical light areas. Its is not a tapers job to make the walls flat....for level 5 finish... Beads shouldn't be hollow or joints humped with excess mud but that is just workmanship not level 5. Before I do a level 5 I will take a 5' darby and show the builder or homeowner the excessive low and high areas and leave it up to them if they want me to darby the ceilings wall etc flat at a cost$$$ on top of the level 5 charge. Believing its your job to make every thing flat is coookooo!!!


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## bmitch (Dec 10, 2011)

Just wondering if any of you have had a chance to use the deco level 5 drywall(continental building products)is producing.the drywall surface has a level 5 finish from the plant.I'm guessing at this but its probably equal to a 220 finish.there won't be any flashing with this product.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

moore said:


> You mean before the hangers show up!
> 
> 
> 
> No drywall finish Is level. Plaster is level ...Drywall Is not ! Unless you go through the pains to make It level ...With the material and time that would cost ! You won't be working much!


We usually discuss this with the builder. If they want a top notch finish someone must check everything with a straight edge and shim appropriately. We will gladly do it, but at an extra charge. In fact in homes with Fry Reglit and door and window wraps, or even EZ Jambs, we straighten the walls, then pre shim the entire wall. We do not pre shim the corners. (And we remove the shims at butt joints) So the hangers must bend the rock in to the outside corners and butt joints ever so slightly. After the bead or Reglit is installed, the wall is quite flat.


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## Zendik (Sep 14, 2011)

Whelp.
We're building the first Saks Fifth Ave in Waikiki. It's either level 5 or wallpaper - all high end. The walls are mostly slate like. No joints telegraphing through the paint. Fitting room ceilings are what I'd call level 5, no joints showing. 
The showroom ceiling, damn near 18k sq ft is showing every single joint, hump, shadow. 
We brought in anoppther sub to take a look and they called it a level3 which I agree.
I'll try and get some pics.


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

Zendik said:


> Whelp.
> We're building the first Saks Fifth Ave in Waikiki. It's either level 5 or wallpaper - all high end. The walls are mostly slate like. No joints telegraphing through the paint. Fitting room ceilings are what I'd call level 5, no joints showing.
> The showroom ceiling, damn near 18k sq ft is showing every single joint, hump, shadow.
> We brought in anoppther sub to take a look and they called it a level3 which I agree.
> I'll try and get some pics.


A straight edge will tell the story. You need someone good at using a plastering rod now if you wish to fix it.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

endo_alley said:


> We usually discuss this with the builder. If they want a top notch finish someone must check everything with a straight edge and shim appropriately. We will gladly do it, but at an extra charge. In fact in homes with Fry Reglit and door and window wraps, or even EZ Jambs, we straighten the walls, then pre shim the entire wall. We do not pre shim the corners. (And we remove the shims at butt joints) So the hangers must bend the rock in to the outside corners and butt joints ever so slightly. After the bead or Reglit is installed, the wall is quite flat.


I mentioned shimming out some stuff to a site manager(X joiner) to help straighten things out!
His answer was u don't shim out plasterboard the d*ckhead:furious:


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## endo_alley (Nov 2, 2013)

VANMAN said:


> I mentioned shimming out some stuff to a site manager(X joiner) to help straighten things out!
> His answer was u don't shim out plasterboard the d*ckhead:furious:


That is somewhat understandable. Many jobs are high productivity and mediocre quality. If the budget is tight and sufficient time is not there, then you must do your best while looking the other way and living with a little bit of imperfection. But some of the high end residential requires a little more quality. Adjust to the situation and the clients wishes / check book .


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

endo_alley said:


> That is somewhat understandable. Many jobs are high productivity and mediocre quality. If the budget is tight and sufficient time is not there, then you must do your best while looking the other way and living with a little bit of imperfection. But some of the high end residential requires a little more quality. Adjust to the situation and the clients wishes / check book .


#1. Post of the year!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

endo_alley said:


> That is somewhat understandable. Many jobs are high productivity and mediocre quality. If the budget is tight and sufficient time is not there, then you must do your best while looking the other way and living with a little bit of imperfection. But some of the high end residential requires a little more quality. Adjust to the situation and the clients wishes / check book .


A year ago I would have questioned this.... I wanted to give perfection. But this is the reality. And its a PITA. I remeber reading an ancient thread where the captain said, its just ****ing drywall get over it. How we pay our bills. Kuddos to you guys who own your own companies. A battle I think I will never join. Just collect the pay stubs:beer:


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## P.E.I.Taper (May 4, 2015)

Half the home owner dont care, only about your price being the cheapest. Half GC dont care, only about how quick it can be done. And half of the trades men dont care... save our souls!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

P.E.I.Taper said:


> Half the home owner dont care, only about your price being the cheapest. Half GC dont care, only about how quick it can be done. And half of the trades men dont care... save our souls!


Home owners don't give a flyin f*ck!!
Priced a job the other day and I put it in cheap as work is quiet!
Got a painter to price the painting that is good!
Taping £2000 (I know the other guy that was pricing it and his work is chit and I told the home owner that!) So my painter friend was £5500 for painting!
The chit taper and painter came in at £5000 taping and painting and got the job!:furious: Think he needs a good kicking pricing like that!:thumbsup:


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## embella plaster (Sep 21, 2013)

VANMAN said:


> Home owners don't give a flyin f*ck!!
> Priced a job the other day and I put it in cheap as work is quiet!
> Got a painter to price the painting that is good!
> Taping £2000 (I know the other guy that was pricing it and his work is chit and I told the home owner that!) So my painter friend was £5500 for painting!
> The chit taper and painter came in at £5000 taping and painting and got the job!:furious: Think he needs a good kicking pricing like that!:thumbsup:


Ooooosa vanman ooooooooosa and rub ur nipples..... or is it ur ears i forget just relax doesnt everything always work out in the end bud? Ull bid another job and who know you may go down the pub in a few weeks and hear that homeowner didnt pay oooooooosa


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