# Advice on automatic taping tools, please!



## Digital_precision (Jan 3, 2010)

I am a contractor/investor who has been flipping my own homes for a few years now after a decade working professionally in the renovation trades. Among these trades is drywall hanging/finishing, which (along with painting) is a universal need for every single home I have ever flipped or renovated. With that being said, I am entirely unfamiliar with automatic taping tools, as I have been manually taping/mudding my entire career. Over the past few years I have acquired all of the hanging/fastening/sanding specialty tools, and now am looking to buy the finishing ones.

My question to all of you skilled finishers are as follows:

1) Which brand do you prefer, and why? (Tapetech, Goldblatt, etc).
2) Would you recommend purchasing a set of automatic taping tools, or just specific ones you need more than others?

I ask the second question because I noticed that (for instance) Tapetech omits the 7" Flat Finishing box if you purchase the Jumbo set, instead giving you the 10" and 12" models instead. Can you still get a professional quality job if you skip from the taping coat to the 10" and then 12" boxes? Is it a big deal that the Tapetech Jumbo set only gives you the 3" corner finisher and not the 2" one? Do you just do two coats with the 3" one instead?

As you can see, I am a complete novice when it comes to these automatic tools and hope that a few of you can help me out. The more I look over all of the various tools, the more confused I am exactly which ones you really need, and which ones are more of a luxury. I really don't want to spend $3000 on a set if I really only wind up using a few of the tools it came with, while at the same time realizing that I was "shorted" some tools which a person really needs to do a professional grade job.

Thank you for your time and patience, it is immeasurably appreciated!
-Benjamin


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Digital_precision said:


> I am a contractor/investor who has been flipping my own homes for a few years now after a decade working professionally in the renovation trades. Among these trades is drywall hanging/finishing, which (along with painting) is a universal need for every single home I have ever flipped or renovated. With that being said, I am entirely unfamiliar with automatic taping tools, as I have been manually taping/mudding my entire career. Over the past few years I have acquired all of the hanging/fastening/sanding specialty tools, and now am looking to buy the finishing ones.
> 
> My question to all of you skilled finishers are as follows:
> 
> ...


Depending on how much taping you do most can do without the tube (bazooka) You do not need a 7" box. A 10-12" is plenty to have. Most that run angles Unless you glaze behind a tube you only need a 3" If you are running behind a tube roll & glaze with the 3' first then follow with the 2" after all other finish work is done, It only skims the angle does not build up the mud which is the wrong way of doing it. If you use the 2" first then the 3" you will create ridges or fat edges. Some will tape with a banjo then they box out the angles with the 3" . It can be done but much harder to do with all the drag. Mud must be thin for running angles unless you are all beefed up otherwise it is a killer on your body. Tape tech boxes all the way for me I have used others but they have proved to be the smoothest running ones that I have found. I am not a believer in the high top ones either, I like the lower profile ones much easier to run and control. I do not use a hand pump like most but a pneumatic pump, but you would have to finish a lot of drywall to justify buying one. Of course with the right setup you can use it for texturing also. I am sure there will be opinions on what to buy I guess it is all what you were taught on. I have 3 sets of northstar boxes that just sit because I do not like them , but I do have 3 northstar tubes that run smooth as can be and one old tape tech that needs rebuilding, just to lazy to do it so it sits in the shed. One great feature on the Northstar tube is it has a finger lip for cutting at a higher reach.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi Benjamin,

What size of job are you typically involved with?

Flipping houses is usually repair work and/or some touch up with a little texture (using a hopper) at most. Sounds like you're working on several rooms at a time. Takes a bit of work to substantiate the investment.

That being said, the previous note was pretty comprehensive.

Rick


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## Digital_precision (Jan 3, 2010)

rhardman said:


> Hi Benjamin,
> 
> What size of job are you typically involved with?
> 
> ...



Hello Rick,

Well, I do indeed do a lot of repair work as you mentioned. I am sure to never entirely do away with the art of hand mudding as I deal with transitioning from new to old surfaces frequently.... and they are rarely level with each other.

However, I also build quite a few additions and rec rooms in basements. On the house I am working on at the moment there will be about 800 sq ft of new drywall, some of which will be very mudding intensive as it'll be rather "chopped up". So in my quest to continue to cut time down on my projects I am looking into the automatic taping tools.

I am pretty convinced that I definitely want the corner applicator, roller, and finisher. The flat boxes do look pretty sweet as well if I will be able to tape/mud standard ceilings without stilts/scaffolding. To apply the tape initially, though, I would also need the bazooka as well....which is the most expensive tool.

The biggest question I have had raised is the difference in quality amongst manufacturers. I have thoroughly read quite a few websites from various manufacturers, and (of course) they all claim to have the best, smoothest, and most reliable taping products. These include Tapetech (Ames), Northstar, Blue Line, Columbia, Drywall Master, and Goldblatt.

The Goldblatt ones are considerably less expensive than the others, so I am assuming they are probably a lesser quality product....as you really do get what you pay for. So I was hoping I could hear from the people who have actually used these different brands and would give an honest opinion of them.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Goldblatt red tools are crap!!!!


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Digital_precision said:


> Hello Rick,
> 
> Well, I do indeed do a lot of repair work as you mentioned. I am sure to never entirely do away with art of hand mudding, as I deal with transitioning from new to old surfaces frequently, and they are rarely level with each other.
> 
> ...


 I hate to say this but 800' of rock will not justify using the tools thats only less than 20 sheets, It will take you longer to clean them up than just to run by hand.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

silverstilts said:


> I hate to say this but 800' of rock will not justify using the tools thats only less than 20 sheets, It will take you longer to clean them up than just to run by hand.



I've been an auto tool man for 36 years, but I have to agree with silver here.

It just ain't worth it.:no:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Muddauber said:


> I've been an auto tool man for 36 years, but I have to agree with silver here.
> 
> It just ain't worth it.:no:


Ditto


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## Taper Rick (Jan 6, 2010)

Agree!


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## Digital_precision (Jan 3, 2010)

With the upmost of respect to all involved, my question was specifically "Which automatic taping tool brand do you recommend, and why?".

I have a high end Graco paint sprayer that I will gladly use to paint just a single room if need be.........even though it may take just as long as rolling/brushing once cleanup of the rig is factored into the equation. Why, you ask? Because it's just plain easier.

Easier is goooooood.

So what brands are you all using, and are you happy with them?


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Digital_precision said:


> With the upmost of respect to all involved, my question was specifically "Which automatic taping tool brand do you recommend, and why?".
> 
> I have a high end Graco paint sprayer that I will gladly use to paint just a single room if need be.........even though it may take just as long as rolling/brushing once cleanup of the rig is factored into the equation. Why, you ask? Because it's just plain easier.
> 
> ...



I'm happy with my Columbia set.
They have a 5 year warranty.:thumbsup:
Tapetech & Tape Master are a good choice also.


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## Taper Rick (Jan 6, 2010)

Tapetech, then North Star. Tape tech makes a great set of tools. I have used most all brands. I enjoy Tapetech and northstar about the same. They just seem to work better for me, and most people i know in the trade prefer them.


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## Apple24 (Jul 17, 2008)

Columbia tube, Northstar Box, Northstar 3 1/2 Corner head after 2 1/2 head works great for me. 7 and 10 inch box's then I spray a skim w/ Mark 5 and pull with 14" knife.:thumbsup: Had a Concorde tube for 7 years they were bought out by Columbia nice tube ALL WALL.com


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Just because they are called Automatic does not mean that they are all that easy to use. Never could figure out why they refer to them as automatic, you still have to work them and they will for certain, work you .Trust me , they are not designed for small jobs that most remodels offer because, most times remodels involve a lot of patching and infills these tools will not help you out one bit in this case. As far as comparing the airless to rolling , it is not the same as running the tools verses running by hand it is entirely a whole different situation.. but if you want to waste your money on something that probably wont help you out any its your money do what you want with it.


Digital_precision said:


> With the upmost of respect to all involved, my question was specifically "Which automatic taping tool brand do you recommend, and why?".
> 
> I have a high end Graco paint sprayer that I will gladly use to paint just a single room if need be.........even though it may take just as long as rolling/brushing once cleanup of the rig is factored into the equation. Why, you ask? Because it's just plain easier.
> 
> ...


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## Digital_precision (Jan 3, 2010)

Silver - 

You're entirely correct when it comes to patching and likely transitioning from new to old surfaces - these tools (automatic taping) won't help much (if any). The areas I would really plan on using them would be the full size additions and rec rooms, that are all 100% new sheetrock. 

The reason I am looking to purchase them now is that the addition I am framing at the moment is going to be extremely mudding intensive. It is a second floor master suite addition that required the entire rear half of the roof to be demo'd, the ridgeline raised two feet, and a total of three dormers built (2 of them gabled dormers, and one shed style dormer running between the two gabled dormers). There will also be two skylight window wells framed in.

So while the addition is only like 800 sq ft total, it will likely seem more like 1600 sq feet worth of taping and mudding due to the extravagant framing of the structure. It is most definitely just not a square/rectangular room. 

While I am thinking of it, what type of fastening tools do you guys use to hang rock? I have been using the standard drywall screw guns from Ridgid and Dewalt, but would very much like to find an "autofeed" gun to save time. The only brand I can find locally is Senco, and they have a corded and a 14.4V cordless system. I was going to opt for the cordless one if you guys would recommend it.

Another feature I would like to have in this gun is for it to have an extension for screwing down flooring materials while standing.... such as Durock cement board and deck boards. I am only 30 years old, but spending all day on your knees screwing down substrate is a killer on the knees/back.

Thank you all for your time and responses!


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Apple24 said:


> Columbia tube, Northstar Box, Northstar 3 1/2 Corner head after 2 1/2 head works great for me. 7 and 10 inch box's then I spray a skim w/ Mark 5 and pull with 14" knife.:thumbsup: Had a Concorde tube for 7 years they were bought out by Columbia nice tube ALL WALL.com



Hey Apple, do you get a good result spraying skim with the mark5 and pulling off? I've been using a roller for skim and was wondering how spraying it would compare. Anyone tried a graco pressure roller for applying skim coat?

D'S


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Digital,

Why don't you go to an Ames store and rent the Automatic tools for your job? This will either convince you of your benefits or of the wisdom from the guy's that say they're too expensive for what you are doing.

If you like them, go buy a set from one of the competitors or rent them as you need them from Ames.

Rick
Ames isn't known for caring about the customer as much as making money so be prepared and you'll be fine. They're also up for auction but that shouldn't affect your ability to test their benefit to your project.


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## Stinger (Jan 8, 2010)

Digital_precision said:


> With the upmost of respect to all involved, my question was specifically "Which automatic taping tool brand do you recommend, and why?".
> 
> I have a high end Graco paint sprayer that I will gladly use to paint just a single room if need be.........even though it may take just as long as rolling/brushing once cleanup of the rig is factored into the equation. Why, you ask? Because it's just plain easier.
> 
> ...


Digital, I have ran at least 5 different types of tool sets and own Tape Tech tools. I also own an Apla-tech set up. Most bazooka's are same same. I like Tape Tech boxes because of the blade/crown adjustment design. The dial spring pressure can be fine tuned if you don't like the results your getting when you set the dial. For example, I like a box to run mud perfectly flat on #1 dial setting and if it don't, I can adjust it to do so. This is nice if you use different muds and the consistency changes. Or, if you like to box butts with a 12" and don't like the dial settings, again, you can adjust the spring to get a better range. But I think like you, bigger faster easier better. As long as the quality is still there. I had my tools stolen a few years ago and discovered something cool. I only had a 7" box which I never used because my process was always 10"-12" boxes. So I started running my 7" box, power sand real quick, 7" box again, Then skim coat with a 9" roller . Primer, and never see a flat(if your boxes are adjusted right)! But you will find it nice to have a 12" box for butts. If I were you and your Graco is big enough, I would buy Apla-Tech's 10-12" CFS boxes and skim with the sprayer. I ran this same process this past year for a company and can't see it getting any faster or yielding better results at the same time. Also, after 30 years, I have settled on running my 3" angle head and glazing with a 4" angle head. It leave's the best corner out of any configuration of processes I have tried. The 4" really gets out past the bevel on the drywall and gives a better corner. The type of work in my area is all smooth wall, no texture, and it's not uncommon for contractors to take a twin 500w Halogen light through the job and stick their nose to the wall looking for imperfections. I can honestly say that the process and tools I have used for the last 10 years don't leave them hardly any flaws to point out. It's funny when you go into a dark room and run tools and somebody says,"Do you need a light in there?" I always say, "You don't need to even look at it when your tools are adjusted and running right." I sand under a light and find great enjoyment in the results.


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## Mr. Mud Man (Oct 9, 2009)

I've used blue line (Premier) and Colombia tools. When it came time to buy a set I went with the Colombia set and haven’t been disappointed. The automatic tools are really only good for virgin drywall. They don't have much tolerance for uneven surfaces and definitely aren't good for patching. I think the tools that save me the most time are the corner tools. If you're looking for a basic set of tools that will give you the most use for the money I would say a corner roller, maybe a 2" and 3" angle head, angle box, 10" and 12" flat box and a pump. 

Colombia has my vote. It’s not that I think Premier tools are bad, I think most of the brands out there do a decent job but I like the design of Colombia more than Premier and I like the guarantee that came with them.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I've got pan and knife, hawk and trowel, banjo, auto tools, and alpha-techs,,, but for the job you described,, I'd probbly use the pan and knife.

Like Stilts tried to tell you,,, auto tools are faster for some jobs BUT THEY ARE NOT EASIER


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

If you're just getting into finishing tools and only use them on a half dozen of jobs a year I would start of with Better Than Ever Tools. You can get a kit that comes with a Super Taper that applies mud to tape, corner rollers, corner flushers, and applicators. These were my first tools and they worked great for a couple of years while I grew from doing renovation work to new construction. They are a fraction of the cost of "auto" tools (Columbia, Tape-Tech, Northstar, Drywall Master, all good), take up less room, and are easier to clean and maintain. That being said if you're going to be drywalling full-time with helpers/staff, autotools are well worth the money. E-bay is a great source of used tools (look under drywall taping tools category) and there's plenty of You-tube videos showing each tool type in action.

You should still have an array of hand tools (pans, knives, hawks, trowels, corner tools) because they still get used on most jobs, will provide you with the basic skills to master the more specialized, and still work when your autotools break down!

Good luck,
D'S

PS apologies for the earlier attempted hijack


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

I use a Northstar tube, pumps, and 3.5" angle head to tape. I use Tapetech 7" and 10" boxes, and depending on the job I might break out my 12. I don't know if I just got a bad set or what, but my Northstar blades on the boxes seemed to be very soft metal and after 3 days of owning them they had nicks in them. I replaced the blades with Tapetech blades, they worked great til I wore them out and sold them. I also use a Tapetech 3" on my angle box.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I own a Drywall Master taper and Columbia 10 & 12" boxes. I also run Ames tools on a daily basis. From what I can tell, the tapers are practically identical, although I do like the power assist springs on the Ames Boxes. I get great results regardless of which tool set I use. 

I think a lot of the guys on here will agree that a quality set of tools is as good as gold, no matter what company they come from. The final experience and the final quality comes with proper adjustment and just the know how to run them properly. That being said since I have never used any of the other brands I cannot and will not pass judgement on them.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Tape Tech All The Way...another hint though...you're not going to be able to go out and purchase those and learn how to run them watching the video. Last set of tools we picked up was from a painter who bought them thinking "automatic". He watched that video several times with his partner and all they succeded in doing was getting frustrated. As both stilts and Capitan have pointed out faster is not always easier and those things will just sit and collect dust if you don't learn not only the basics but the tricks that go along with them to make them "easy". I cleaned the "tools" for a year back in the '70's before I was ever able to begin learning to run them.


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## roominaday (Feb 14, 2010)

I do renovations and some NC. I use Can-Am or the Better Than Ever applicator tubes and flushers for my angles. I have both sets. You need a 4 wheel roller to set the tapes if using the tube. I flush with a 3" and re-coat with the tube and a 3.5", however I am learning that this is backwards and to use the 3.5" or 3" 1st, then the 3 or 2" next. I will also use a fuzzy roller to apply mud in the angles on smaller jobs, roll and flush, or wipe and coat each side once dry by hand.

I use a 10" and 12" NorthStar boxes, pump and adjustar handle on larger jobs. I coat all butts by hand as there are usually not too many and I have not learned or tried to "box" them yet.

I would like to order a 3" nail spotter and PC sander next - this will save me some time! The sander will get used lots on my residential repaints!

I will graduate to a corner box and angle heads soon.

Make sure you at least buy a set made in North America!


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*Drywall Master and CanAm 10 and 12 inch boxes...review?*

Any experience and/or opinions of the Drywall Master and CanAm boxes?

Thanks.


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## pipercub17 (Feb 26, 2010)

i run can am boxes thay seem as good as the rest of them out there


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

rhardman said:


> Any experience and/or opinions of the Drywall Master and CanAm boxes?
> 
> Thanks.


I have a DW 7" box, it works great,,,, they are plain looking without any bells or whistles,,, but they PRODUCE!!

Never used a CanAm


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