# taping machine pros and cons



## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

let's talk about these machines. Right now if i get some of the work i'm chasing, i'm thinking of just subbing my taping out, if not i'm still considering the machines.. What do u guys think ?
BTW...hanging and finishing prices are back to 10 years ago over here


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

I kinda answered this question on your other thread. But in basic, I'll suggest getting a pump, angle tools, perhaps 2 angle heads, and a 10 and 12" box.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

Drock,

Get the whole set. If you don't use a bazooka to tape with. You may as well ride a horse to work. Bite the bullet. Hire someone to teach you how to run it. Or just hire out the taping.

Like I stated in your other thread. I don't like pushing boxes on stand ups.
But if I had to I would pull my bottoms up as high as I could and then pull the tops down off stilts. You get to big of a lap if you pull the bottoms up last.

Corner tools are an incredible time saver. I would shoot myself if I didn't have them.

The only nail spotter that I have ever used that was any good was the Blue line.
They have wheels on them just like the boxes. But you may be hard pressed to find any hangers that set their screw well enough to make it work.

Tycoon


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

If you are doing stand ups you just cannot beat the bazooka , It is incredibly fast and very easy to use on stand ups , especially the angles ... and if you are doing 10' even a short person like me can run them as long as you have someone on stilts wiping the tops ... go for it it will be the best investment and write off you will ever make . The time you save on your first decent size job they will pay for themselves.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

What brand(s) of bazooka's are recommended?


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

so the bazooka is the 'taping machine', and the 'box' is the coating machine ? How many boards can get done (taped) in a day ( 8, 9, or 10's stood up, 10's or 12's ceiling)? No super man numbers please. Just regular 'the boss is not here, we can slow down now' numbers..


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

It is cheaper to sub it out because the learning curve is pretty time consuming.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

fenez said:


> It is cheaper to sub it out because the learning curve is pretty time consuming.


lemme guess......you're a taper ???:whistling2:


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

I own a drywall company


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

Why the assumption?


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

fenez said:


> It is cheaper to sub it out because the learning curve is pretty time consuming.


Whats to learn , fill er up open the gate and run with it , just keep the drive wheels on the rock , don't cut before you stop , advance before you start on the board again . It's all in the rhythm . The only learning curve may be running a ring angle which again isn't that hard if you learn to keep the drive wheels where they should be .... ceilings same thing always keep the drive wheels on contact with the board to keep the mud flowing , if you don't well then there is nothing but a bunch of dry tape. Make sure your mud is thinned down to keep things running smooth , especially for the inside angles. Once you pick up a tube and use it you will find (even though it can be heavy) after you master all the little tricks it makes taping a breeze . You want to know the speed ? For most tapers running a banjo you would have to run your azz off all day to get 20 rolls on, with a tube you could have that done before you morning coffee break, providing your guys can keep up wiping down. Another thing to help keep the speed up is invest in a pneumatic pump, there are several out there that you can mix a good batch of mud up, rather than using a hand pump which can slow you down and gets harder on your arm and shoulder as the day goes on.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Another point to think about is what does the GC think , most will not allow a sub contractor to sub out to another subcontractor. It is not only that but, you have more control if you have your own crew do the work, even if you have to put more men to work. Just a thought, although by subbing out you can avoid some additional expenses, work comp, SS, ect. That is something only you can decide.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

fenez said:


> Why the assumption?


just a joke..we're both in ny.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> Whats to learn , fill er up open the gate and run with it , just keep the drive wheels on the rock , don't cut before you stop , advance before you start on the board again . It's all in the rhythm . The only learning curve may be running a ring angle which again isn't that hard if you learn to keep the drive wheels where they should be .... ceilings same thing always keep the drive wheels on contact with the board to keep the mud flowing , if you don't well then there is nothing but a bunch of dry tape. Make sure your mud is thinned down to keep things running smooth , especially for the inside angles. Once you pick up a tube and use it you will find (even though it can be heavy) after you master all the little tricks it makes taping a breeze . You want to know the speed ? For most tapers running a banjo you would have to run your azz off all day to get 20 rolls on, with a tube you could have that done before you morning coffee break, providing your guys can keep up wiping down. Another thing to help keep the speed up is invest in a pneumatic pump, there are several out there that you can mix a good batch of mud up, rather than using a hand pump which can slow you down and gets harder on your arm and shoulder as the day goes on.


20 before coffee ?????? are you serious ? that sounds nuts. how is the quality? thinning the mudd may not leave enough of it in recess for 2nd coat.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Of coarse I am serious, I am sure others will testify to the ability of the speed in which you can string tape, especially on verticals. Verticals are the easiest , It takes about 2-3 seconds to run a 10' flat or angle, another couple maybe five seconds to roll out the angles , and to run the angle head the time it takes is just a few seconds. The best is to run a 3 man crew. As far as thinning you do not want water , but just use some good common sense, wipe out the flats and butts with a 8" knife and the void fills pretty good , it will fill more than if you use a banjo, because the tube will leave more mud. Some will argue that point that they open their banjos and you will have plenty of mud like a bazooka , wrong,,,, If nothing else see if you can beg , barrow or just get you hands on one too see for yourself, perhaps show up on a job site where a crew is using the tools and just watch and learn... you will be amazed with the speed , the quality of the boxes comes with some practice just don't pick up any bad habits and you will have it under control.


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

so, do you think i should just get or rent the bazooka to begin with ? seems the boxes are more involved..checking this stuff out on the net, I've found starter packages for decent pricing


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

d-rock said:


> so, do you think i should just get or rent the bazooka to begin with ? seems the boxes are more involved..checking this stuff out on the net, I've found starter packages for decent pricing


Spend some time on YouTube. Lots of videos there demonstrating the use of all drywall finishing tools. A real eye opener if you do the old style like myself.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

If you rent be prepared to return the first 2-3 bazookas until they finally get you a good one. Their best ones are already rented out, the ones available are usually junk. The best tool men hand trace behind the boxes, lessening the lap marks, locks, etc.

It would not unusual to see 3 men tape 20-30 k per day, maybe more. I had a crew that could tape 3 11k California splits in one day if they were all in the same subdivision.
But that's all they'd get done. Prefill and taped, no metal. And that'd be a 10-12 hour day. 20 k + would be about right.

I'd try to hire a taper who owns his own before I bought any or rented. You'd get the instruction and the exposure to the tools before going shopping.


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

No one ever just picks up automatic tools and immediately uses them. There is absolutely a learning curve, for someone to say that anyone can just do it devalues the whole trade.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

No not anyone just can pick them up and go , but most in the trade know most of the in and outs for them there isn't that much of a learning curve just some common sense and a strong back.... as far as watching on you tube i think most on there are nothing but a bunch of amateurs with nothing better to do than to inflate their own egos... but, back to running the tube if you have the attitude that it is difficult and hard to learn then you are in the wrong business , we should all be looking at ways to speed our work up along with keeping top notch quality foremost.


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

My point was that to just pick up some auto tools and try to do a job straight away with them could be costly, paying your guys to learn isn't the best way to make money. D rock could find some of the out of work union guys that know how to use them which would be a better more profitable option. Sorry if I took your post the wrong way.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

paying union guys, that are on unemployment... nice

ever heard of the word "scab"????

That's almost as bad as the "amigos" that are running the majority of us out of jobs.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

I put on 20 rolls before coffee. But they where the 100 footers.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

Drock,

When I started taping with a gun. I had a few tapes fall to the floor. Left a few angles short or long. Jambed it from cutting on the roll. Had a heck of a time taping linen closets. But eventually figured it out. 

Keep your tools clean. Take care of your tools and they'll take care of you.

Tycoon


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

Not to ask the question again, but I am asking the question again....

What brands do you recommend?


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

well if i get some of the jobs i been bidding out, I think i'm gonna get something for sure. I like the idea of hiring someone who's got them already, even if i gotta pay him some extra. Again, the idea of subbing it out is nice as well. I could certainly make a few pennies on it with no headaches.
I gotta say, watching the youtube videos makes me wanna do it myself it LOOKS fun..but i'm sure many of you will call me crazy for saying that.:1eye:


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> Drock,
> 
> When I started taping with a gun. I had a few tapes fall to the floor. Left a few angles short or long. Jambed it from cutting on the roll. Had a heck of a time taping linen closets. But eventually figured it out.
> 
> ...


why don't you make a video of yourself taping and post it on here so i could see ? i think we all wanna see...


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I have everything Tapetech


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

Did you catch that 100' roll. I was joking. 
We're starting to hang a couple of Fire Depts. 

I'll be taping when we get heat. I'll see what I can do.
But I might have to charge you.

Tycoon


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

how much ? i'll give you tree fiddy!!!!


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

nu uh

a buck tree atee

You may have to call Silvers Wambulance and take me to the horsepiddle.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

This thread reminds me of a job I tapped a couple of months ago. We had 12's layed down, up to 12' feet. 3 walls, 2 of them about 240 ln ft each, and one 60 ln feet. I was actually running for the first sheet to second sheet of taping. Took me about 10 mins to tape it all. The second roll I did it on a lift, with the lift moving at the same time without stopping. Man did we tape that so quick! By lunch time we had everything tapes and 1 coat with the box. Went home early!


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

fenez said:


> No one ever just picks up automatic tools and immediately uses them. There is absolutely a learning curve, for someone to say that anyone can just do it devalues the whole trade.


You are right to some degree. However, you can get videos on youtube on how to run the tools and hit the ground running. Thats what i did and I found them to be extremely helpful (aside from the poor sound quality). In any case watchin the videos helps and I would surely suggest it to a newbie.


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## Wotootall (Mar 4, 2009)

Most of what stilts says is good sound advice. Learning to run boxes can be hard on the back and shoulders. I am 6'-6" have my own stuff (no Bazooka) and have tough times to fill ten feet from the floor. It does get easier with each coat (on your back ) doing 10's The possibilities are endless with machines as with some practice you can skim walls complete. There will always be times you will want to knock down the edges for a better finish. If you want to buy machine tools get some practice in with someone who uses his own machines, as there are some tricks to knowing what #s to set the blade box at. *Always always check the angles* for bad screws before running the flusher, nothing worse than a knick in a blade for any finisher. Blades can cost you alot of money. Here in Ontario we have guys who can pull off 20k' a week and always be at home for 2:00 pm. Also what stilts says about bazookas is true you have to have atleast one good guy to wipe down if you really want to knock off good footage #s.


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## Wotootall (Mar 4, 2009)

Also buying used boxes are not a bad idea as long as the brass and box itself is ok, the rest is small to rebuild and fairly cheap if needed.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

wnybassman said:


> Not to ask the question again, but I am asking the question again....
> 
> What brands do you recommend?


Whatever all-wall has on sale. I got columbia. I would stay away from the red finish pro stuff I think from goldblatt. Honestly I pondered that question for a long time but any of the major brands are probly ok.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> Whatever all-wall has on sale. I got columbia. *I would stay away from the red finish pro stuff I think from goldblatt. *Honestly I pondered that question for a long time but any of the major brands are probly ok.


Watching YouTube stuff I saw that one video saying the Goldblatt stuff is not what it used to be. I guess for half the cost of ALL the others, you definitely expect to get what you pay for.

The past week or so I have been really tempted to buy a set of something. I'd mainly like a taping set for now, just to get into it. But dahyyum! that stuff is pricey  Just to get what you need for taping is about 2 G's. My finishing tools at this time (and for the last 20 years) have been a hawk, a 6" taping knife and a 10"&12" knife, about $60.

I'd love just to try an auto taper for a day (I'm sure that would seal the deal for a purchase). None of the rental shops around here carry such things. Just REALLY tentative to buy something I may not like. We do a fair amount of drywall, but not a ton. Maybe 2-4 large drywall jobs a year (houses), with several smaller jobs mixed in. Not sure the cost is justified with this amount of actual drywall work, although the tools will last a LONG time.

I hate making "money spending" decisions.


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

This is the set I have been considering the most.

http://www.all-wall.com/acatalog/Drywall_Master_Taping_Set.php

Pros or cons?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> Of coarse I am serious, I am sure others will testify to the ability of the speed in which you can string tape, especially on verticals. Verticals are the easiest , It takes about 2-3 seconds to run a 10' flat or angle, another couple maybe five seconds to roll out the angles , and to run the angle head the time it takes is just a few seconds. The best is to run a 3 man crew. As far as thinning you do not want water , but just use some good common sense, wipe out the flats and butts with a 8" knife and the void fills pretty good , it will fill more than if you use a banjo, because the tube will leave more mud. Some will argue that point that they open their banjos and you will have plenty of mud like a bazooka , wrong,,,, If nothing else see if you can beg , barrow or just get you hands on one too see for yourself, perhaps show up on a job site where a crew is using the tools and just watch and learn... you will be amazed with the speed , the quality of the boxes comes with some practice just don't pick up any bad habits and you will have it under control.


I agree that a bazooka is the fastest way to tape,,,, however, don't lie about the banjo, okay,, it can and will adjust the amount of mud left on the tape, whereas a zooka is set, it leaves what it leaves, there is NO adjustment. A banjo WILL leave more mud than a zooka, period. I have three banjo's and three bazookas. Just tell em the truth, you don't have to lie about it.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I agree that a bazooka is the fastest way to tape,,,, however, don't lie about the banjo, okay,, it can and will adjust the amount of mud left on the tape, whereas a zooka is set, it leaves what it leaves, there is NO adjustment. A banjo WILL leave more mud than a zooka, period. I have three banjo's and three bazookas. Just tell em the truth, you don't have to lie about it.


I am not lying the truth is I suppose if you take and open the cutting blade to the fullest opening you may be close to getting the amount of mud that a bazooka leaves on the tape, there are a few factors involved with getting a good flow with a banjo, as I am sure you are well aware of, the main is the consistency of the mud the thinner the more will flow, the thicker the less, bazooka does not make any difference except when it comes time to wipe down or run angles how hard do you want to work at wiping, The worst thing is if you do open up the banjo all the way how many feet could you possibly run before a refill? perhaps a third of a bazooka. It is true it would be but a mute argument on the adjustments for mud flow on a tube, there should need not be a reason to adjust, it is set for the correct flow. Most guys that I have seen run a banjo set theirs to run as little as mud as possible, which does not really leave enough mud to fill voids. It is one of those personal things that we all decide on how we want to tape. I like all the voids filled it makes the second coat go way faster, and also there is a good dry base to speed up the second coat drying process.


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

They probably don't want to have to stop and fill it all the time.

Most times that I see a guy using a banjo. They have mud all over it and themselves.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> They probably don't want to have to stop and fill it all the time.
> 
> Most times that I see a guy using a banjo. They have mud all over it and themselves.


So very true, reminds me of a guy that worked for me couple summers back, he did not believe in using water to wash his hand , He would just wipe them on his pants, the worst was He would change before leaving after work leave his dirty pants with all the mud on them and change back into them the next morning... could not believe it after a week I know them pants could stand up by themselves..... One of my other employees came to me one day and said you know so an so is stealing mud from you ? Made me think what? He started laughing and said yeah just look at those pants and shirt..... Unbelievably sloppiness at its best...


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## d-rock (Oct 21, 2009)

overall, seems would be worth it if you have enough work to merit the purchase. its a big investment for a drywall sub. If I get more work this year i will certainly get into it


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

silverstilts said:


> I am not lying the truth is I suppose if you take and open the cutting blade to the fullest opening you may be close to getting the amount of mud that a bazooka leaves on the tape, there are a few factors involved with getting a good flow with a banjo, as I am sure you are well aware of, the main is the consistency of the mud the thinner the more will flow, the thicker the less, bazooka does not make any difference except when it comes time to wipe down or run angles how hard do you want to work at wiping, The worst thing is if you do open up the banjo all the way how many feet could you possibly run before a refill? perhaps a third of a bazooka. It is true it would be but a mute argument on the adjustments for mud flow on a tube, there should need not be a reason to adjust, it is set for the correct flow. Most guys that I have seen run a banjo set theirs to run as little as mud as possible, which does not really leave enough mud to fill voids. It is one of those personal things that we all decide on how we want to tape. I like all the voids filled it makes the second coat go way faster, and also there is a good dry base to speed up the second coat drying process.


 Sorry if I was a bit blunt, sometimes I come off like that, without meaning too. The banjo will leave WAY more mud than a tube, but I use a tube every chance I get, only use a banjo if the job is too small to justify getting the tube and pump dirty. The banjo , as you stated, will not go as far as a tube full of mud, and altho it is fast, it is not near as fast as a bazooka. When I tape with a banjo, I can roll the corners and glaze em with an angle head on a pole, no prob,,, when I use a bazooka, I roll the corners and glaze them using the mudrunner, cause the bazooka does not leave enough mud to properly glaze the corner, IMHO, of course, i know a bunch of fellas that glaze with a pole after the bazooka,,, they wish they had the mudrunner tho.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

In order to roll and glaze the angle it is very important to have your mud thin otherwise it will not glaze out, biggest mistake and the biggest reason there are frustrated tapers out there when they run the angles, it has to flow. Once your angle head is loaded up with mud there is no reason it should not work, the only other reason it may not work so good is bad framing angles are off to begin with. Most that use banjos have a tendency to thin there mud more because of pulling the tape out, when running the tube you don't notice how thick or thin the mud is until you actually wipe or run angles. Some have the habit of loading the banjo with the tape actually in the middle of the banjo thereby coating both sides of the tape making it seem to roll and glaze out easier because it is lubricated on both sides, do you think that is a possibility? It may be your angle head is not set right , really cant tell because i don't know how you actually run your tools... some will use lightweight mud such as plus 3 for taping which will cause more drag instead of all purpose or regular just some thoughts..


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## Drywall Tycoon (Mar 1, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Sorry if I was a bit blunt, sometimes I come off like that, without meaning too. The banjo will leave WAY more mud than a tube, but I use a tube every chance I get, only use a banjo if the job is too small to justify getting the tube and pump dirty. The banjo , as you stated, will not go as far as a tube full of mud, and altho it is fast, it is not near as fast as a bazooka. When I tape with a banjo, I can roll the corners and glaze em with an angle head on a pole, no prob,,, when I use a bazooka, I roll the corners and glaze them using the mudrunner, cause the bazooka does not leave enough mud to properly glaze the corner, IMHO, of course, i know a bunch of fellas that glaze with a pole after the bazooka,,, they wish they had the mudrunner tho.


The only time that I have skips when I angle tape is when my angle mud is not thin enough. I empty my tube between flats and angles. Empty the pump and start taping with regular AP. Magnum has a lot of vinyl and is a very finely ground compound.

The other time that I have skips when glazing angles is if the corners are to far out of square. 

I pumped mud on my angles a couple of time when taping. However it leaves " to much mud" over the tape. It leaves to big of an edge. Angles don't require that much mud over the tape. The angles sand out easier with less mud over them. It only requires enough mud to cover the tape to accomplish a perfectly smooth angle.

Tycoon


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Drywall Tycoon said:


> The only time that I have skips when I angle tape is when my angle mud is not thin enough. I empty my tube between flats and angles. Empty the pump and start taping with regular AP. Magnum has a lot of vinyl and is a very finely ground compound.
> 
> The other time that I have skips when glazing angles is if the corners are to far out of square.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the response.. i have been using a bazooka for years, and I know what the deal is,,, i just responded, cause, I also know that a banjo will leave WAY more mud than a bazooka. I wasn't looking for advice on a zooka,,, just trying to set the record straight about the banjo, ya know


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