# Hot mud users



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Good evening all, 

Lately we've been hitting a snag at work involving our mud. We use Sheetrock brand's Tufset and Easysand 45 to tape and coat. What we have been seeing lately is what I can only attribute to a delayed shrinking of the mud. 

We tape and bed with Tufset, then second and third coat with EasySand. We always wait for it to set before running another coat. The seams look good and when gauged out with a blade are flat. They dry and then are sanded and painted. A few days later, when the unit is farther up the line, you can see where the beveled seams are, and when gauged the tapers are hollow. 

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can attack this? We do not use mud that is too thin, with our power-assist boxes, if the mud is too thin it just pushes the mud right out of the box and onto the floor.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

If you would like to know how I avoid this problem I will share this, use your bedding coat, and your "fill coat" with the the easy sand, if you're looking to avoid any problems in the future, use a top coating or a "lite" for topping such as +3 or lite blue. You will have an easier time sanding, and it will shrink far less. Hope this helps!


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Well we made some adjustments, and are now running our 2nd coat (fill) wide open on the ceilings, it takes a lot of mud, only get about 1 1/2 seams per box full, but on our end they look really good, and really full. Then we 3rd coat (skim), and they barely take any mud. We'll see what happens in a day or so when they hit the front door and get blasted by natural light.

I just can't figure out why we are only having the issue on the ceilings...


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

fr8train said:


> Well we made some adjustments, and are now running our 2nd coat (fill) wide open on the ceilings, it takes a lot of mud, only get about 1 1/2 seams per box full, but on our end they look really good, and really full. Then we 3rd coat (skim), and they barely take any mud. We'll see what happens in a day or so when they hit the front door and get blasted by natural light.
> 
> I just can't figure out why we are only having the issue on the ceilings...


 The problem we have is taping with bond that doesn't shrink,next coat don't cover good.Final coat with mud but is on heavy and is crowned.Working with bond creates alot of problems,but they want it done fast. What is your time from taping to ready for paint, on one modular?


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Use the manufacture suggested way period. 

Why is it that some of you don't say no to faster production apply it properly and let it dry naturally, just as suggested and we all will benefit from it. 

In the next breath you share your feelings on being $hort changed. 

That feeling of, "this is my only way to get a head of it" is the wrong approach. 

Moving on to the next house and letting things dry on the last one, and only returning when it good to do so, when its dry, makes for a better job with less complications.

Just because they want it done fast does not mean your should go beyond the suggested methods or you will be just dealing with call backs and in reality you have saved no time what so ever. 

PS
The taper gods told me so


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Mudstar said:


> Use the manufacture suggested way period.
> 
> Why is it that some of you don't say no to faster production apply it properly and let it dry naturally, just as suggested and we all will benefit from it.
> 
> ...


Thank you !!!! great post


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Mudstar said:


> Use the manufacture suggested way period.
> 
> Why is it that some of you don't say no to faster production apply it properly and let it dry naturally, just as suggested and we all will benefit from it.
> 
> ...


 I would prefer to use mud,but doing modulras on a production line they want it done fast.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> The problem we have is taping with bond that doesn't shrink,next coat don't cover good.Final coat with mud but is on heavy and is crowned.Working with bond creates alot of problems,but they want it done fast. What is your time from taping to ready for paint, on one modular?


George, don't know if this will help, or even if you care, but any hot mud is gonna swell when it drys. It is always gonna hump up. So you have to factor that in. in other words you are using a mud that is guarunteed to swell, so you have to leave it slack to compansate. If you think I'm crazy (most do) just spot your nails with hot mud and check em the next day, you will have to scrape the "swell" off em before you second coat em.

I only use hot mud on small jobs, like a bathroom for instance. I use old wallboard knives that I have a cause they are soft and worn out, therefore I can "belly" them out with my drive finger so they leave the middle low, therefore they will swell up and leave the flat like i want it. 

Just saying ya know. :thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

fr8train said:


> Good evening all,
> 
> Lately we've been hitting a snag at work involving our mud. We use Sheetrock brand's Tufset and Easysand 45 to tape and coat. What we have been seeing lately is what I can only attribute to a delayed shrinking of the mud.
> 
> ...


Maybe i lost something in tranistion, but if your joints are flat before they are painted, they will be flat after they are painted. Thinning your mud will not make any differance on this problem. There is something going on, but it is NOT the thickness or thinness of your mud.

Quit looking there, and look somewhere else.

Are you sanding? what are you sanding with? what is the wall primed with?

I ask, because you are looking in the wrong place, re-group and look elsewhere.

Peace bro


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> George, don't know if this will help, or even if you care, but any hot mud is gonna swell when it drys. It is always gonna hump up. So you have to factor that in. in other words you are using a mud that is guarunteed to swell, so you have to leave it slack to compansate. If you think I'm crazy (most do) just spot your nails with hot mud and check em the next day, you will have to scrape the "swell" off em before you second coat em.
> 
> I only use hot mud on small jobs, like a bathroom for instance. I use old wallboard knives that I have a cause they are soft and worn out, therefore I can "belly" them out with my drive finger so they leave the middle low, therefore they will swell up and leave the flat like i want it.
> 
> Just saying ya know. :thumbsup:


 Agree 100%, this is what builder wants to use.(yes i care)


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> Agree 100%, this is what builder wants to use.(yes i care)


Nothing wrong with that, you just have to pay attention to THE stuff you are using. You have to remember that differant products produce differant results. No biggy, just LEARN each product, and don't do like most of us and figure that all products work the same. Like Taco Bell says, "think out of the box"

Peace


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Capt,

What I meant by the ceilings are flat is, after we finish with them, and they get sanded and primed, they look great. Every now and then, maybe 1-2 per unit, at this stage looks like it needs more work. But after a few days of 'curing' time, the ceilings looks hollow, right at the bevel. That's why I said it's almost like a delayed shrinking. The units aren't sanded / primed until the day after we finish them.

George, at the pace we are going currently, its takes about 2 days for us to finish them and sand/paint. We are however looking at ramping up this week, going to 15 floors a week.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Setting compounds just allow you to quickly go from a fill coat to a 2nd coat. They are not dimensionally stable until they are fully dry not just set. Only then can they reliably be sanded and primed or final coated. I'd recommend doing a mock up with all the different setting compounds and weights and measuring which is most dimensionally stable in your process. If none meet the tolerance then you'll either have to change your process, your quality expectations, or wait until the manufacturers can develop a product that meets your needs.

The quickest fix I can think of is to over crown your second coat to compensate for any shrinkage that might occur. 

Good luck, D'S


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

D's
Basically in a nutshell that is what we are doing, putting the 2nd coat on heavy to compensate, so far so good.

The other problem that wasn't helping the situation was the guy who runs them usually stays on top of the up-keep of them; keeping the the screws tight, changing the blades, etc. Well when I checked the blade on our 7" box it was done for, worn down almost to the brass. I changed it out for a new one, and now the bed coat is more even and thicker, resulting in having to use less for the 2nd coat.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

fr8train said:


> Capt,
> 
> What I meant by the ceilings are flat is, after we finish with them, and they get sanded and primed, they look great. Every now and then, maybe 1-2 per unit, at this stage looks like it needs more work. But after a few days of 'curing' time, the ceilings looks hollow, right at the bevel. That's why I said it's almost like a delayed shrinking. The units aren't sanded / primed until the day after we finish them.
> 
> George, at the pace we are going currently, its takes about 2 days for us to finish them and sand/paint. We are however looking at ramping up this week, going to 15 floors a week.


Okay I"m with ya now. What is happening is that you are jamming these out so fast, you are using setting mud, it sets, then you cover it again, it sets, then you skim it, it sets. 

Then a few days down the road, IT DRYS,,, LOL,,,, thats where your shrinkage is coming from. 

Just because it SETS does NOT mean it DRYED.

Hope I didn't offend ya, but THAT is what is happening.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

big george said:


> I would prefer to use mud,but doing modulras on a production line they want it done fast.


Done fast who are you kidding?

Its really going to take the same time to apply setting type or premixed no matter how you look at it. Not considering mixing time for the setting type.

With this said your not getting any extra for your efforts but you are losing in the cost of the setting types over the premix to do the same job and dealing with problems that fr8train is having I'd think twice on this method. 

Need I say no more

Maybe it was Santa that told me

Santa!


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## eazyrizla (Jul 29, 2010)

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 4 characters.


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## Rolly (Jul 24, 2010)

fr8train said:


> George, at the pace we are going currently, its takes about 2 days for us to finish them and sand/paint. We are however looking at ramping up this week, going to *15 floors a week*.



with this much footage ahead of you, it should be easy to organise your system to allow for proper dry time for regular mud, I think you would find yourself putting out a better product and making more $$$


cheers


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Well our pace goes like this, this morning about 6:30 we started taping a unit. By 11:30 it was completely done being coated. With the help of some big heaters/fans, it was sanded and painted by 3:30 PM.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

fr8train said:


> Well our pace goes like this, this morning about 6:30 we started taping a unit. By 11:30 it was completely done being coated. With the help of some big heaters/fans, it was sanded and painted by 3:30 PM.


 I can't see you turning out a quality finish in this short period of time.

:wacko:


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## PrairrieDogExpress (Jan 29, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> I can't see you turning out a quality finish in this short period of time.
> 
> :wacko:


agreed. What is this Extreem Home Makeover? I wouldnt want one of those houses. There is a reason it takes more than 2 weeks to build a house. Impossible to maintain quality if trying to finish that fast. Just my opinion.


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## PrairrieDogExpress (Jan 29, 2010)

fr8train said:


> Well our pace goes like this, this morning about 6:30 we started taping a unit. By 11:30 it was completely done being coated. With the help of some big heaters/fans, it was sanded and painted by 3:30 PM.


Why not tape in 4 units one day coat them all the next and so on? You'll still end up finishing 4 in 4 days and you should have a better end product.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> Why not tape in 4 units one day coat them all the next and so on? You'll still end up finishing 4 in 4 days and you should have a better end product.


Ahhh,,,,, the voice of reason

Could not have said it better ifin I thought about for a cpl of days.


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

PrairrieDogExpress said:


> Why not tape in 4 units one day coat them all the next and so on? You'll still end up finishing 4 in 4 days and you should have a better end product.


 The reason why ,you don't have 4 days to finish 1 unit.You have 1 or 2 days to mud and paint,1 day for flooring,cabinets,doors,trim etc. forth day is loading the unit with materials for site work.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

big george said:


> The reason why ,you don't have 4 days to finish 1 unit.You have 1 or 2 days to mud and paint,1 day for flooring,cabinets,doors,trim etc. forth day is loading the unit with materials for site work.


Ahh, so this IS extreme home-make-overs


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## zack 02 (Aug 27, 2010)

It may set up hard enough to put another coat of mudd on but the mudd is not cured. I only use hotmudd on small jobs bedroom ,bathroom,livingroom,etc. Also have to worrie about humidity from the time you finish mudding ti the time you prime. Never seen a joint shrink up after primer is fully cured. Chances are there was less light when you saw your work at first then maybe the next day the sun was bright and then the problems arose. It has been known to happen.


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