# New Mud Pan /Attorney say's I can share.



## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

For touch up...

Instead of holding a 6" in your back pocket or having your second knife fumbling around in your pan hand...

















I'm interested in your initial impressions...

Rick
(Not for sale yet...)


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## robotaper (Apr 27, 2010)

N O .


sorry, its friday and a hot mother in the southwest and ive had a couple beers.

just dont see it happenin.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*Cool!*

Keep it comin!

Thank you Robo. :drink:

I want to hear it. Good, bad, whatever.:thumbup:

Rick


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

I like it. kind of the mud pan version of a hawk-mate. Will there be any spring pressure against the blade to keep it from falling out?


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## PrairrieDogExpress (Jan 29, 2010)

interesting idea. 
Looks like you would only be able to use one side of the pan to take mud off knives.
I could see it being a bit of an issue with keeping that slot free of mud.


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

good idea......... but i'm with PrairrieDogExpress


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*To explain a bit...*

We have alternate designs of the same idea covered with the attorney. Neither the one above or the one below are our final version but it's enough (I hope) to hear what you think. The one above is the very first design I came up with about 5 years ago. They are made different ways including an aftermarket "add-on" that you can purchase to put on your own pan. The issue is that if it doesn't fit perfect, it's not very good at all.

The idea is to have a friction fit between the 2nd pan wall and the first wall which holds the blade in place. You can use it with or without the second knife so we'll probably drop that 2nd wall down a but to make it easier to use as a regular pan. We need a small lip so the 2nd knife slides in between the two pan walls easier.

There are weep holes at the bottom of the holder to allow water to escape. But you are right, you need to make an effort to clean your knife well before you slide it in. Or, leave it in your bucket of water over night and hose it off.

It's not for everyone but I found it to be helpful. It takes a little practice to get used to.

The reason I'm asking for your help is so we can prioritize our efforts. We have several things in the hopper (so to speak) and I want to be sure we don't waste time with things that aren't wanted.

Thank you,
Rick

Here's another version...


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## SaskMud (Jun 9, 2010)

Why not put the knife holder sticking off the small side instead of the long side
If its only for a 6 then no need for the 12 inches to hold it.. if its at the small end of the pan like....

\ .............................../ 6 inch knife
.\___________________/ 6inch knife


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## Taped Crusader (Aug 13, 2009)

Any way to just have a magnet on the side? The painters pal has a magnet in it that holds the brush pretty well. Seems like anything with an opening on it is destined to be packed with mud after a month. I wouldn't want to spend the time to clean it out. the opening on the side does seem to be the better option of the two though.


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## Saul_Surfaces (Jan 8, 2010)

mmm. . . magnet that's a nice idea too. If it were on a spring like a money clip, it could hook over the side. It would be interesting to know of all stainless knives on the market stick to a magnet. Magnets only work on cheap stainless. Stuff like 316 grade used for foods won't stick to a magnet.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*Sask,* that configuration is covered in the patent but I used the long side so you can put any size knife in the holder. For instance, your 12 inch knife when you are using the broad knife for inside corner detail. :thumbsup:

*Crusader,* the knife on a magnet tends to shift if bumped. Also a knife blade on a magnet, if not situated properly will leave a sharp edge near your (holding) hand that can cut like a kitchen knife. It also creates little areas that are tough to clean if the mud get's hard. To hold it securely with a magnet, it gets a little bit heavy. I wanted something 100% secure so it never comes loose. Honestly, I didn't go so far as to try it with stainless (good point Saul, I know a magnet typically won't hold stainless) as I just wasn't happy with how it performed with the regular steel blade (and non stainless pan). Cleaning hasn't been an issue with me but I make sure the knife is clean. A later version has the lip lower than the edge of the pan so mud has less of an ability to get in there. 

*Saul_Surfaces,* I didn't think of a money clip. The idea was to make something that has the feel of regular pan (can be used with the round bottom pans too) so when you are only using one knife, it's the same action and feel as a normal pan. I spin a pan frequently with my left hand when mudding and I don't know how the "clip" would feel. Manufacturing costs would be slightly higher too I think. I did try a similar idea with a prototype where the holder was tack welded along the bottom and then along 2 sides. After prolonged use, the loose side tends to pull away from the pan and leaves an edge that can cut you. At the same time, the insertion and pulling away of the knife loosens the grip on the blade and makes it sloppy. :blink:

_Great ideas and great feedback!!!!_ 

The humble truth at the end of every thought is manufacturing cost. I have a website of hand tools that I can't sell yet because my costs (trying to make perfect indestructable hand tools) are so expensive. That's why we're partnering up with DeAnne at Advance-Equipment. Working with her my manufacturing costs for the paddle were at $35.00 and now we can retail it through your local distributor for under $20.00. Every idea...no matter how small has a cost related to it so that's been a big part of the pan design. 

The goal is to make it effective and at the same retail price as a standard pan when you see it on the shelf. Personally, I'd prefer to get less profit and enable 2 more guys to buy one (especially in these economic times). :thumbup:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Just a question for pan users, which I am a pan user as well. 

Does your knife stay in the pan of mud or in this case with ricks holder or in your hand?


get back to work slackers.......

JS


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

IMO it would be easier to keep the extra knife in your hand under the pan!!! It looks as if the knife would get knocked out or come out of it of you move your pan around alot and end up on the floor damaging the corner.


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## kgphoto (Dec 21, 2009)

How about a rare earth magnet on a clip on your belt to hold your knife?

I think there is too much sticking out with the magnet on the pan.

The single side pan is not for me as I rotate the pan to us both sides to keep crumbs from forming and keeping the load balanced.

I wear a light pair of bags and just stuff my knives in them. It holds my scissors, knife, pencil, screwdriver and hammer on the first go round only, and that is it. Magnets do hold the stainless knives I use. I have hammer heads on the drywall knives, but prefer a real drywall hammer to set nails.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*Now that's a good response!*



drywallnflorida said:


> IMO it would be easier to keep the extra knife in your hand under the pan!!! It looks as if the knife would get knocked out or come out of it of you move your pan around alot and end up on the floor damaging the corner.


And that's the way I always did it before I came up with the pan. It's friction fit won't let it fall out.


Here's the deal, there are a thousand ways to do anything.

I'm just asking that if you had the option to hold a second knife on your pan (and it could also be used like a normal pan with no "issues") at no additional cost...

Would this be a good thing? 

Rick

Please keep it coming!


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

kgphoto said:


> The single side pan is not for me as I rotate the pan to us both sides to keep crumbs from forming and keeping the load balanced.


I'm with you on this one.........clean is keen


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

Don't think I would use it.

I'll just stick with sliding my knives between the board and stud in the door openings.:thumbsup:


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm a pan user & I think it is a dumb idea.:thumbdown:seriously.sorry to say so.


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

Final touch drywall said:


> I'm a pan user & I think it is a dumb idea.:thumbdown:seriously.sorry to say so.


Thank you very much.

Actually the real advantage of DWT is to find the negativism offered with the first impression. Nobody knows if something will produce a profit until it's on the shelf. With the lack of any real innovation in the industry, most things are worth a try.

With the 120,000+ drywall contractors in North America (and allowing for the expected 15-20% reduction in that number) the challenge for us is to isolate the companies with an open mind. We're learning that they tend to be the larger drywall companies that are still profitable in the current economic environment. 

What I've learned here is that if you really want to find out what is good or not good, you have to put it in peoples hands. 

You can't make things better with people that aren't willing to give something a try. You have to find that 10% that say, "I'll try it...." Then if they slam it, you can put value in their opinion.


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## kgphoto (Dec 21, 2009)

Hmm. Not sure if that is true or not. I will tell you my opinion comes from the early experience of using one of those plastic mud pans with the metal inserts in the edges. It was always collecting crumbs and slowing me down. Went to SS pans and hawks and never looked back. 

I do like the idea of the knife holder below the hawk as that doesn't seem to get in the way very much, but I haven't tried one yet. The bags work well for me. I have to clean out the crumbs from there every so often, so if there was a magnet that could go on a belt and would hold securely, but not require perfect aim to attach or a wrestling match to remove, that would be attractive.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I will say I get tired of my twelve inch in my back pocket. Well not so tired of it in the pocket as tired of the one inch cut on my fore arm from it being in my pocket. I like the idea of the knife stuck on the pan. Might take a bit of getting used to, but that is everything new or different. I think it would work for me. Wouldn't know until I bought one. And I am a tool junkie. I have nearly everything everybody has tried to market. Never know when one will hit and be just perfect for my style. Yes, I have a whole bunch of stuff sitting on the shelf in the shop. Like the round bottom pans with the funny looking handle on the knife made by Marshalltown. Could not get the hang of them. :blink: Maybe that's why.... (cross eyed) I'm game, sell me one!


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

*That's what I'm talking about...*

An open mind...thanks 0282. :thumbup:

I've learned what I needed to. There isn't much interest so we'll put in on the back burner and focus on the new scaffold (and Raptor of course). We have 5 or 6 items that will be included in the catalog but not worth a significant marketing promotion.

Thank you.


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## MeatBallDryWall (Jan 9, 2010)

What about something on the bottom of the pan near the end? I personally always hold the pan in the middle no matter what. So a knife facing outward from the user inserted via knife handle on bottom of pan & partial blade exposed might work. I think it would be handy when doing handwork with 2 different blades. Now setting the pan down & making it sit level is another ? 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an inventor, just a dirty drywaller. :jester:


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