# bevel to butt joints and angle boxes



## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

Hey everyone, ive only been using the boxes for 2 years and i was just wondering how you guys finish your bevel to butt joints. it just seems like what im doing the tape always shows. Also, i use the corner box and im having the same problem it seems like in some spots its fine but the tape still shows to much for my liking? any tips?


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Rantaper13 said:


> Hey everyone, ive only been using the boxes for 2 years and i was just wondering how you guys finish your bevel to butt joints. it just seems like what im doing the tape always shows. Also, i use the corner box and im having the same problem it seems like in some spots its fine but the tape still shows to much for my liking? any tips?


Just give your bevel/butt another coat to allow for the extra shrinkage on the taper side. As for your other problem, I don't use an angle box (not yet anyway) but it could be from not keeping an even 45 degree angle along the entire corner...I find trial and error goes along way and what works for you doesn't always work for someone else, the problem I get is if I try a different technique in different areas of a house I tend to forget what I tried and where, so I end up having to pencil mark what I had done...Might be old age or alcohol...or maybe both.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Funny I've been thinking about this very thing. Had a couple real slow months been thinkin about taking my bazooka and boxes to a real big job on the military base, a couple barraks. Of course 9' ceilings with a rip all around the room. My buddy has a lot of experience with boxes and I asked him about it he said he handled it like a flat. I figured it would be a matter of holding the box at just the right spot over the seam. Curious to see what others will have to say.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

How thick is your mud? That's usually the biggest problem on the corners


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

i usually mix my mud pretty running but not to much that it runs out of the box but i usually mix palmolive with my mud which i find works wonders for fish eyes! do you think i should put two coats with the angle boxes?


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## Mr. Mud Man (Oct 9, 2009)

I used to use Dawn in my mud to get rid of the fish eyes and I thought it worked good but another finisher told me that any soap with a degreasing agent in it weakens the bond or something like that... anyway, not good to use something with a degreaser so I switched to 'soft soap'. (Cheaper too) Still works great but I dunno if there's some truth to the degreasing thing. Anyone know for sure?


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## rhardman (Jul 7, 2009)

We've played a lot with mud compositions at varying temperatures and used polyethylene glycol to see if it would prolong the life of seals and metal surfaces in mechanical pumps for mud. What we finally determined was that any water soluble lubricant tends to break down the adhesive qualities of the mud and can in excessive amounts cause separation between the mud and the wall. We did some insane testing far beyond what normal applicators would do so I'm talking about extreme cases. If it works, it's tough to argue with that. Just be aware that there are limits to how much you should add. We ended up going another route.

"Fish eyes" are normally the result of the mixing process. If you can slow down the drill and keep the paddle below the water line, it will pull less air into the mix. Watch to see if you have more fish eyes in the upper part of the bucket (of mud). If so, it's definitely a mixing thing.

_*But I think the topic was bevel to butt joints...*_


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

thats very true, which is why if anyone has mastered the bevel to but with the boxes let me know im very interested in seeing how it is done!


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

These were a real " pain in the butt " :w00t: on 9' walls before they came out with 54" board.

I will coat each side with an 8" box set on 0.

Second coat with a 10" box down the center with box set to what ever will cover the tape without over loading.

Third coat each side again with a 12" box set on 3 or 4, then touch up by hand.

As far as the angle problem, could be a number of causes.
1. bad framing.
2. bad board hanging.
3.a bad corner roller.
4.bad angle head.
5.mud to heavy.
6.mud to thin.


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

Also, i use the corner box and im having the same problem it seems like in some spots its fine but the tape still shows to much for my liking? any tips?[/quote]
Sounds like your not pushing hard enough when you are rolling the tape on. Throw a little more Grrr into it.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

mudslingercor said:


> Also, i use the corner box and im having the same problem it seems like in some spots its fine but the tape still shows to much for my liking? any tips?


 Sounds like your not pushing hard enough when you are rolling the tape on. Throw a little more Grrr into it.[/quote]


What size angle heads are you using?

I tape with a 3" then finish with a 3.5". Very rare to have tape showing when finished.:thumbsup:


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

Muddauber, Are you asking me? If so I use 3.5 then applicator and 3.5 again o ya a little rough sand in between.


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

I use a 3'' corner box and i usually only do it once and wherever the tape shows i touch up by hand but do you think if i put two coats with the corner box it'll work better?


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## S&SDRYWALL (Oct 21, 2008)

Wow, everyone is tryin so much differant stuff! Dawn dish soap in the mud?? what kind of problems are you having that you are having to add stuff like that to the mud? DOnt use such piss thin mud, remember the more water you add, the more its going to shrink, ya its a bitch to push the anglebox with stiffer mud, but looks better, picks easier and shrinks less. As far as butt joints, 10 down each side of tape, 12 down each side of tape, 12 down the middle, cross off top/bottom, and sand it, check it with a 12, skim if neccessary


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

Tape should not show ever IMO and it dosen't for me. I always found the angle box to skim to tight and the **** drywall crews I follow leave screw sticken out. So to save them a beating I run the flusher head. My sander also says it leaves more mud on and his guys don't sand though to tape. Almost all the tapers I encounter use the same method. I find the angle box is also a hernia just waiting to happen. Flushing if used right should be effortless compaired to angle box. So my expensive angle box has sat in the garage for years.


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

for the dish soap i put that in so i dont have to go over with the boxes two or three times to get ride of the fish eyes, with the soap you run the box once an its like glass everytime!


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't have any problems with fish eyes. What mud are you using? I'm using Synko Lite Finish. Just 4 curiosity though how much do you put in per box?


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## S&SDRYWALL (Oct 21, 2008)

We do not ever have problems with fish-eyes. We use all hamilton mud products.. Doesnt the dish soap burn your eyes when you sand?


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

burn my eyes? no not at all! we use proroc blue "best mud in the joint."


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## Mr. Mud Man (Oct 9, 2009)

I never noticed any difference between sanding mud with soap and mud without, but I only add about ½ oz worth (+ or -) for a full bucket. Doesn't take much and honestly I could probably get away without doing it but I think it does help enough to make it worth my time. If I don't have any I don't sweat it though.

About the angle flusher. Do you use the 'mud syringe'. (Something like the 'Big Shot' from all-wall? Or the Mud-runner?) Or is there some other set up. I do a lot of plaster work as well and for corners I like to use a 'butterfly' which is basically just an inside 90 tool and I like the end result but haven't found one that I liked for drywall. I use the angle head because its fast but I don't have the big shot and don't know anyone who's used one so any word on what your setup is would be great.


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

Yes something like the big shot, I just looked it up and it looks a bit cooler than what i use. With a applicator head of course. Thickness of the mud is very important to thick and it's a struggle, too thin and you'll make a mess buy pushing mud out the sides


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## Rantaper13 (Sep 24, 2009)

for the corners i have recently started using a 3 inch angle flusher and a 3.5 for the second coat and it works amazing! not sure what a mud syringe is?


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## Mr. Mud Man (Oct 9, 2009)

Sorry, Mud syringe probably isn't the best term. I was thinking something like the Big Shot, I guess Mud Tube would be better.

I was thinking something like this:

http://www.all-wall.com//acatalog/Compound_Mud_Tubes.php#aBETCT


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