# High Shoulders on Uprights



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm wanting to find a way to deal with high shoulders on board that's been positioned upright and screwed onto steel studs. This last job had at least 1/2 the uprights ending up like that, and to the point where I couldn't box some of it out, but had to also hand coat wide enough to 'disappear' the joints. Anyone know of a way(s) to minimize ending up with situations like this.


----------



## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

either it was framed wrong and studs were slightly off making the hangers pull studs to where they need them and got them twisted...or the hangers didnt know how to hang on metal and got them twisted...thats really the only 2 ways that cause twisted flats on metal...all you can do at that point it float it out


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I've been seeing a lot of rock lately with high shoulders built right into it....only way to avoid it is to send it back (which never really seems like an option)


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

You need to tell your rockers to hang on the hard side of the stud first.When they screw to the soft side of the metal stud it creates twisting of the metal.


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Final touch drywall said:


> You need to tell your rockers to hang on the hard side of the stud first.When they screw to the soft side of the metal stud it creates twisting of the metal.


I would hope the 2 who did the hanging knew this. Even I knew of it, and they've been hanging for a lot of years. But I'll check, just to make sure. If they did do it 'the right way', then I'm going to maybe have to think about finding a 2nd right way.

Thanks for the input, guys.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I suppose for clarification I'd like to know which part of the rock you're calling shoulders. Here, we call the transition from recess to flat a shoulder...We've been having problems for years with this spot being proud of the flat, sometimes by an extreme amount. If you put a straight-edge on the rock, there's a hollow between the flat and what we call the shoulder. My solution has always been to run a coat over it with my 20" trowel (I know, that's way too wide and I should go back to school or something). This way, I create one minimal hump, instead of hollow-hump-hollow-hump-hollow. It always seems to make them go away, but what a pain in the a$$


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> Here, we call the transition from recess to flat a shoulder


That's the part.

And if I was going to pull out a straight-edge to check for a proud spot, I'd do it BEfore I bought the stuff - unless there wasn't a choice, or not enough board was being bought for it to matter much.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I suppose for clarification I'd like to know which part of the rock you're calling shoulders. Here, we call the transition from recess to flat a shoulder...We've been having problems for years with this spot being proud of the flat, sometimes by an extreme amount. If you put a straight-edge on the rock, there's a hollow between the flat and what we call the shoulder. My solution has always been to run a coat over it with my 20" trowel (I know, that's way too wide and I should go back to school or something). This way, I create one minimal hump, instead of hollow-hump-hollow-hump-hollow. It always seems to make them go away, but what a pain in the a$$


hey slim your right for a change:jester:
you got to turn them into butts,and it's also what bill and final touch said,it's the framers and rockers,usually more the rockers.it's very,very,very important what side of the stud they start on when they do their runs:yes:


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I suppose for clarification I'd like to know which part of the rock you're calling shoulders. Here, we call the transition from recess to flat a shoulder...We've been having problems for years with this spot being proud of the flat, sometimes by an extreme amount. If you put a straight-edge on the rock, there's a hollow between the flat and what we call the shoulder. My solution has always been to run a coat over it with my 20" trowel (I know, that's way too wide and I should go back to school or something). This way, I create one minimal hump, instead of hollow-hump-hollow-hump-hollow. It always seems to make them go away, but what a pain in the a$$


Btw: I re-read my OP. I can understand how/why my point wasn't clear as to the cause of the high shoulders when it came to finishing the board - the steel stud framing twisting.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> That's the part.
> 
> And if I was going to pull out a straight-edge to check for a proud spot, I'd do it BEfore I bought the stuff - unless there wasn't a choice, or not enough board was being bought for it to matter much.


Most of the time, as a sub I would just show up to a stocked a house. The last big job I was on, they just decided to give a bunch of the rock for free, to offset the cost of fixing the shoulders. It was fun watching him explain that to tapers doing L5 on 80,000 feet of rock:thumbsup:


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> hey slim your right for a change:jester:


Now where did I put that middle finger smiley workaholic gave me.....hmmmmm......oh wait, here it is http://billarchibald.com/smilies/finger.gif 

:laughing:


dammit...they killed the link!


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

:whistling2:


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

I talked to the guy running one of 2 jobs I was on today about this screwing to metal studs and causing high shoulders on standups because of twisting issue, and he committed himself to saying that you should screw to the soft side 1st. I then told him that there were people on this forum who recommended the reverse - to which he commented "That's the problem with such discussion forums". I didn't get into it with him as to what he meant, but I did mention that a # of people here have a lot of experience, some as pretty much most anyone in our company.

I don't think he cared for me saying that, but this is an important issue, as this high shoulder thing is going to keep showing up as they start doing more of them - eg. I have a large job of standups to do starting on Wednesday, and I'm hoping they were done differently than at the last job with standups.

So before I really commit myself to a position on this with them, and maybe err and create some unkind thoughts from those with more years in, is there anyone in disagreement that board should be screwed to the hard side 1st? If no disagreement, should it be totally screwed off on that side before screwing anything to the soft side?


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

I found an old thread with a # of comments recommending screwing off the soft side 1st:

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/joints-humped-metal-framing-why-526/

Anyone in disagreement with their reasoning?


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> I found an old thread with a # of comments recommending screwing off the soft side 1st:
> 
> http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/joints-humped-metal-framing-why-526/
> 
> Anyone in disagreement with their reasoning?


yes,as always they (we) have good points,framing and which side rockers start on,issue's with the taper himself,the environment your working in,the lighting issue's,and level 5 don't hide humps.Some guys think stand ups are easy,I think their a bigger pain in the you know what.
incorporate everything they say,their right


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> yes,as always they (we) have good points,framing and which side rockers start on,issue's with the taper himself,the environment your working in,the lighting issue's,and level 5 don't hide humps.Some guys think stand ups are easy,I think their a bigger pain in the you know what.
> incorporate everything they say,their right


Okay.....so which side to screw off 1st? Soft side, then?

I can hide the humps. At least usually. I just don't want to have to do so many, or ones that sometimes are quite so bad.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Okay.....so which side to screw off 1st? Soft side, then?
> 
> I can hide the humps. At least usually. I just don't want to have to do so many, or ones that sometimes are quite so bad.


you know justme,Ive heard rockers argue over that one,soft side or hard,final touch in this thread says hard,lets see what the rockers say.I'm not sticking my neck out since I tape all the time now.maybe start a thread on it:yes:


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

According to the "Drywaller's Bible", put out by the Gypsum Association (8.3), 

"To provide a more level surfaces at joints, arrange gypsum
panel product application so that the leading edge of each
panel product is attached to the open or unsupported edge of
the steel stud flange."


The Drywaller's Bible is a kicka$$ document for any serious and conscientious hanger or finisher.


----------



## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

Well...

I personally hang hard side first..when you hang hard side first, it pulls the soft side out to the hard side of the stud to make the joints level.."sometimes" when you hang the soft side first, the hard side won't pull...another big thing for me personally, is you don't break on same side of stud for both sides..this will cause twisting too

I bet if you look in to it enough, you will find that most of the time it is lazy hangers that pull studs to where they need them if layout is slightly off instead of popping out a couple screws and moving the stud

Some people don't realize that metal framing is only as good as the rockers.....metal studs are really there to be supported BY drywall...whereas, wood studs are there TO support drywall


----------



## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

All I know is my guys are told to hang hard side first,just as bill mentioned above.& we have flat seems:thumbsup:.Then again we use mesh,so what the heck would I know:whistling2:


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> According to the "Drywaller's Bible", put out by the Gypsum Association (8.3),
> 
> "To provide a more level surfaces at joints, arrange gypsum
> panel product application so that the leading edge of each
> ...


I don't do enough commercial work to know if the above is true or not, maybe Bill and Final Touch are right. When I hang on steel, I usually pull the stud tight to the rock and then screw the soft side so it stays put. I can see how hanging the hard side would make sense, but lets say you hang the hard side and you tweak the stud...then the soft side isn't going to come into line. But like I said, I don't do a ton of it. And I don't recall having ever stood up sheets on steel....it seems like it would suck, knowing the way screws strip in the recess on steel studs.


----------



## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Interesting. I can see where this isn't necessarily a question with only one answer. Good food for thought, which is what I'm going to do with it. Thanks to all so far for your input.


----------

