# Lost one



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Lost one to the machine ,,,, I wasn't fast enough,, or ,,cheap enough..
I'm working next door for A loyal G/C . Went over this evening To nose around.. In honest this Is only the 2nd machine job I've seen up close and personal . 

The hot mud was for me ,,,Just in case they went my way,,,, what er..


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

So what do you think??? Hows it gonna look painted???

Are you pissed, or thinking about tools???


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Get the tools moore, Come over to the darkside, Get the tools :yes: you know you want to, They are fun :whistling2:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Well, it's looks good from here. Just start with flushers and a tube moore. You can still coat by hand but getting there will be quicker.:yes:Major difference. You WILL kick yourself for not trying sooner. Trust us !


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Come to the dark side moore, you can't fight it
















Next time go to the house when their running the tools, then you will be sold

Hard to tell from pics, but the joints look heavy, did you put a straight edge to their work, bet you did, didn't you Moore:yes:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes Moore....come join us....we are your friends, start with one tool and feel the addiction kick in as you spend the families food money on a brand new fa-shizzle for the whatsit :yes:.


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

Mr. Moore ... Moore is better when Moore gets more done in less time. I went from hand finishing, to taping with the banjo, to using the tools. Always quality minded, the tools made taping and roughing-in so quick and easy that it bought me more time to polish things up at the end. Challenge your old assumptions and beliefs and give it a try. Once you've gone "tools" you'll never go back.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Field General said:


> Mr. Moore ... Moore is better when Moore gets more done in less time. I went from hand finishing, to taping with the banjo, to using the tools. Always quality minded, the tools made taping and roughing-in so quick and easy that it bought me more time to polish things up at the end. Challenge your old assumptions and beliefs and give it a try. Once you've gone "tools" you'll never go back.


"Better" can be subjective. With mudding, some could maybe find rewards/satisfaction from things outside of "quick and easy" - things that they don't really to care to trade away. Eg. After again watching a guy they sometimes teamed me up with grab pan and knife, when grabbing a box would've made more sense, to tease him I commented that I finally figured out why some did that - they found hands-on mudding to be in some ways more rewarding emotionally, even therapeutic. Tools 'mechanized' things too much for some, and created some distance from the mudding, making it less personal. There was also the personal satisfaction of doing something that required good skills to do it well. Instead it became more about production, with an acceptable enough degree of quality. He laughed and then said there could be something to it.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

JustMe said:


> "Better" can be subjective. With mudding, some could maybe find rewards/satisfaction from things outside of "quick and easy" - things that they don't really to care to trade away. Eg. After again watching a guy they sometimes teamed me up with grab pan and knife, when grabbing a box would've made more sense, to tease him I commented that I finally figured out why some did that - they found hands-on mudding to be in some ways more rewarding emotionally, even therapeutic. Tools 'mechanized' things too much for some, and created some distance from the mudding, making it less personal. There was also the personal satisfaction of doing something that required good skills to do it well. Instead it became more about production, with an acceptable enough degree of quality. He laughed and then said there could be something to it.


Agreeded,, there is a multitude of finshers out there that would rather use hand tools than make a good living.

Its all in what ya want


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

I find it very rewarding cutting firewood with an ax, but having enough wood to burn for the winter and enough time to do other things besides cutting wood has it's rewards too.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Like Capt said, It's all in what ya want, General. :thumbsup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

JustMe said:


> Like Capt said, It's all in what ya want, General. :thumbsup:


But having said that, there's also the thought of 'pursuing pleasing results, vs. pursuing pleasing methods'. If you're not happy enough with the results from your work - eg. enough money - because of how you'd like to continue doing it (pleasing methods), then maybe it could be time to change something? Like some tools for some help with production?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Field General said:


> I find it very rewarding cutting firewood with an ax, but having enough wood to burn for the winter and enough time to do other things besides cutting wood has it's rewards too.


OK OK I get It  $$$$ That's the hold up .
keeping this game going takes money,, when It all comes In,, It all goes out . Just give me A little while . When I get my boxes I'll make a vid for all of you to piss on yourself laughing at. :yes::yes::yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> So what do you think??? Hows it gonna look painted???
> 
> Are you pissed, or thinking about tools???


Paint ready,,NO,,run your hand across those screw heads /butts/seams
bead ,, NOT BASHING..so don't jump down my throat!!

Mexicans,,, They hand finished the stairwell,and closets.
I have a 10 year old who can finish a closet better than what I saw there.
1 day. 1days work , like general said to polish it up ,,, That's all It needed ,,, WHAT'S 1 DAY? my guess was,, they know how to run the boxes [some what] but have no clue how to hand finish. :whistling2:


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I agree with the majority on here, get yourself some tools, learn how to use them effectively and you will find yourself with more time on your hands, what you do with that time is up to you. 

You could pick up more work and make more money, or you could spend that extra time with your family. Look at it this way, if it could take you 8-10 hours to tape what I can tape in 4. Even though the job as a whole takes us both 4 days to complete, I have an extra 4-6 hours a day that I can do what I please with, and still make the same money. 

What works for you? Like the General said, how do you want to spend your time. Since you are already an expert hand finisher, adjust the tools to finish to your expectations, and you won't look back!

How many BIG jobs did you pass on or were passed on because you couldn't get it done in their time frame?


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

What part of VA you live in? Make it worth my while and I'll enterain coming down to show you what the tools are capable of. :whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

fr8train said:


> What part of VA you live in? Make it worth my while and I'll enterain coming down to show you what the tools are capable of. :whistling2:


Offer some beer Moore, you can get mountains moved when you offer beer


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm asking a question
is that called level 4 smoothwall there?
It looks finished,
is that a hump where the board changes direction?
Is the tool work kinda uneven on the edges?
Are the nails built up w/a 2 then 3 then by hand?
Are there 2 or 3 coats on the flats?
Was it done w/a 8+10?
a 10+12?
or an 8.10. then 12?
Then once by hand?
Or leave the butts w/3 by machine?
More likely 2 by a 10+12 run on 3 or so,
maybe ran the butts twice w tools then once by hand?
Maybe heavy fills?


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

On second look is that a house done by hand?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

muttbucket said:


> On second look is that a house done by hand?


seams-boxes
screws-nail spotter
angles - not sure- 
bead - boxes


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm not that great of a drywall finisher,
maybe not [email protected]$$ed,
neither that great-
just a regular drywall finisher.
I don't like leaving too much mud on the nails.
I like my tool work to show slow deliberate movement.
I love it when I don't have to brush down more than lapmarks.
I really like my seams to be flat.
The best hawk and trowel men I know are far better at finishing level 4 than the best tool and knife men I know.
The boxes should get your seams pretty good and flat compared to most hand work.
Even good hand work is no match for the speed and accuracy of a box in the right hands.
I vote to discontinue machine privileges to anyone you disapprove of Moore-
how do you guys do 10,000 foot hoses w/o tools?
I can't imagine.
I started by banjo and h&t
I know I can't finish flat without tools now.
I just don't run like then.
But w/tools I can do 3500 feet after work and on weekends.
Not so by hand-


you can still make it look like shIIt using the tools


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

How do you guys do 10,000 sq ft houses without machine tools?

slowly but surely  and by the hour $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Naw just kidding..


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> How do you guys do 10,000 sq ft houses without machine tools?
> 
> slowly but surely  and by the hour $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I'm basically a hand taper by choice just like you moore. I used to run all machines for years when production taping but like you I'm in it for the quality now and prefer to coat by hand because I can do a better job than a box. Not quicker, just better, the first time around. I'm with you on that ! Hand jobs are the best.

But, I do love my tube and flushers for angles. The time saved here and the boring nature of it all makes it well worth using.

Been using this system for years now. When I was 30 I could tape a simple 10,000sq in about 9 hours. I'm 45 now and took me 13 hours a couple weeks ago to tape out 12,000sq. Took me 60 hours to finish which is good for me and lucky I guess that people don't squelch on paying for quality around here.

Now I'd hate to think what it would take me to do it completely by hand. I haven't done a real hand job since I bought my first flushers 25 years ago.
I'm a piece worker too 99% of the time.

For under $500 you can get yourself set up. Get a piece at a time and sooner or later you'll be smiling a little moore


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Hand jobs are the best.




I can see a debate developing around THIS topic :laughing:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I can see a debate developing around THIS topic :laughing:


why ? you looking for one?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> why ? you looking for one?


Why, are you offering? :no:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I can see a debate developing around THIS topic :laughing:



Maybe I shouldn't have stated that as sounding absolute. IMO :lol:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

:lol::lol::lol:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have stated that as sounding absolute. IMO :lol:


No problem mudslingr, I think it's great that you're proud of your handjobs.:whistling2: There are definitely instances where one would prefer to avoid machines.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> No problem mudslingr, I think it's great that you're proud of your handjobs.:whistling2: There are definitely instances where one would prefer to avoid machines.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ! :thumbup:


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## E.K Taper (Jun 15, 2011)

get the tools Get the tools Get the tools Get the tools Get the tools Get the tools:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Brian S (Apr 17, 2011)

This is a subliminal message for Moore

Look into my eyes, you are becoming very sleepy,
when I say the word you will read this message...........WORD



You will remember nothing of this, except the message:lol:


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http://www.betterthanevertools.com/


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http://cgi.ebay.com/Drywall-Tools-M...048?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a90444a0

Welcome to *"THE OTHER SIDE" *wahahahaha (That's evil cackling laughter)


I'm pretty slow at handtaping, (or is that handjob:whistling2 but with the tools I can nearly be as fast as a good handtaper, well may be a bit faster, lol

Joking aside they really do speed things up and leave an outstanding finish, and less hard work, start with a mud tube and flushers, that won't break the bank, but will earn you more ££££££s ooops wrong monopoly money $$$$$$$s lot's more of those.

So as EK said GETTHETOOLSGETTHETOOLSGETTHETOOLS


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I know I've said It before,, but this time I mean It ,,,soon..
Thanks guys
I'm so tired of running angles by hand ,,I could puke.. Capt Is right.
Angles are 55 percent of the finishing time. 

i don't like the changes Nathen


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## msd (Apr 10, 2011)

moore if nothing else use the tools on the corners and do your flats and bead by hand. we have ran the boxes for the past 5 -6 years and had enough issues after paint that we went back to hand troweling flats and bead. you cant beat the speed of the boxes but you do not get the level of finish that you get by troweling your joints. to much bad framing and bad board that the boxes dont fix and you end up running the box and turn around and have to had trowel the joint anyhow. not every joint but enough for me to go back to troweling. if i am going to run mud on a joint its gonna be once and done.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

msd said:


> moore if nothing else use the tools on the corners and do your flats and bead by hand. we have ran the boxes for the past 5 -6 years and had enough issues after paint that we went back to hand troweling flats and bead. you cant beat the speed of the boxes but you do not get the level of finish that you get by troweling your joints. to much bad framing and bad board that the boxes dont fix and you end up running the box and turn around and have to had trowel the joint anyhow. not every joint but enough for me to go back to troweling. if i am going to run mud on a joint its gonna be once and done.


You don't have to tell me about bad framing/lumber,and sh!tty wallboard brother .. I deal with It every day. I'm thinking a machine run on the block coat ,,and then go from there . I've never laid hand on a c/p tube or box,,but I've been here for 8 months.. I've been ready. Can't wait I love my job , but hate seeing the same house for days at a time ..where's my f/n avatar ??


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> You don't have to tell me about bad framing/lumber,and sh!tty wallboard brother .. I deal with It every day. I'm thinking a machine run on the block coat ,,and then go from there . I've never laid hand on a c/p tube or box,,but I've been here for 8 months.. I've been ready. Can't wait I love my job , but hate seeing the same house for days at a time ..


I'm right with you on this. I'm going to see about a tool loan here right quick-like. Granted, 85% of my work cannot be done by machines, but that's because I turn down the bigger jobs in favor of tricky remodel work where artisanship is a must. I too would block in with a box. I don't care who's running the box....I never like it as a final finish. Angles however....even if I run them with the box and slide every edge by hand, I'm going to be hours ahead with consistent results.:thumbsup:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> Angles however....even if I run them with the box and slide every edge by hand, I'm going to be hours ahead with consistent results.:thumbsup:


Not sure what you're meaning here, Slim. Are you talking about doing angles with an angle box and then coat the edges by hand?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Not sure what you're meaning here, Slim. Are you talking about doing angles with an angle box and then coat the edges by hand?


Yessir. Not so much a real coat as a "touch-up". Perhaps I've never seen a superb angle head in action, but the 4 or 5 that I've had the chance to be around for any real duration didn't leave the edges as tight as they should. And, being as they weren't my tools I didn't monkey with them to get them running how I thought they should run. Have you ever noticed that when sanding angles you can't really kill a high edge unless you go after it with a hand sponge? Or without herculean effort? I'm sure I'm going to get blasted by guys for whom the angle heads work real slick-like....but I've never seen one do a really nice job (aside from good crisp angles). I sand well, but I don't like to sand a lot. If you kill the edge by hand while you're picking corners, you can just breeze over it with the pole and call it good. When I'm picking corners, that's when I usually hit everything that needs any attention so on sanding day I can pretty much walk away (because we all know that's what you _really_ want to do when you're done sanding...not walk around for hours fixing flaws on top of dust laden walls)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Yessir. Not so much a real coat as a "touch-up". Perhaps I've never seen a superb angle head in action, but the 4 or 5 that I've had the chance to be around for any real duration didn't leave the edges as tight as they should. And, being as they weren't my tools I didn't monkey with them to get them running how I thought they should run. Have you ever noticed that when sanding angles you can't really kill a high edge unless you go after it with a hand sponge? Or without herculean effort? I'm sure I'm going to get blasted by guys for whom the angle heads work real slick-like....but I've never seen one do a really nice job (aside from good crisp angles). I sand well, but I don't like to sand a lot. If you kill the edge by hand while you're picking corners, you can just breeze over it with the pole and call it good. When I'm picking corners, that's when I usually hit everything that needs any attention so on sanding day I can pretty much walk away (because we all know that's what you _really_ want to do when you're done sanding...not walk around for hours fixing flaws on top of dust laden walls)


ooh!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> ooh!


:confused1:

Not sure what your comment means, but I'll explain further because I have nothing better to do! 

With an angle box, you're still going to be able run angles in half (or better) the time....even if you include sliding all the edges for a top-notch finish. With better results than totally by hand. And taping angles with tools....fuggedabouddit!

When I walk into any establishment or home, I first look at the walls for butts, then at the angles. I see those edges a lot, and I see the top sheet recess a lot. I don't care for that. Maybe ****-ner doesn't catch it, or Mr. business owner, but I can see it. I'm one of those losers who places my quality above my earnings I guess


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I know I've said It before,, but this time I mean It ,,,soon..
> Thanks guys
> I'm so tired of running angles by hand ,,I could puke.. Capt Is right.
> Angles are 55 percent of the finishing time.
> ...


I was cleaning out my garage today moore, found a old beat up TT corner roller, do you want it. It will cost you money for new wheels, there's one missing on it right now (I don't know why). not sure what it would cost to ship to you. May be if I just send you the head without the handle, it might just cost me postage. You can just stick a pole sander handle on it, female end.

Found a old steel bead crimper too, the ones where you could adjust the pins:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> Yessir. Not so much a real coat as a "touch-up". Perhaps I've never seen a superb angle head in action, but the 4 or 5 that I've had the chance to be around for any real duration didn't leave the edges as tight as they should. And, being as they weren't my tools I didn't monkey with them to get them running how I thought they should run. Have you ever noticed that when sanding angles you can't really kill a high edge unless you go after it with a hand sponge? Or without herculean effort? I'm sure I'm going to get blasted by guys for whom the angle heads work real slick-like....but I've never seen one do a really nice job (aside from good crisp angles). I sand well, but I don't like to sand a lot. If you kill the edge by hand while you're picking corners, you can just breeze over it with the pole and call it good. When I'm picking corners, that's when I usually hit everything that needs any attention so on sanding day I can pretty much walk away (because we all know that's what you _really_ want to do when you're done sanding...not walk around for hours fixing flaws on top of dust laden walls)


Reason why I ask is I haven't had much luck myself so far with angle boxes. Neither do I think did most of the tapers I work with, who have tried one. At least the ones I know of who have got one don't seem to be using them.

A fair amount of push required for one thing, I found. Also the 'splort' one gets when the box's lid pulls back out at times while using it, which sucks in air. Then it 'splorts' mud and air out when pushing on the box - I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows how to best deal with that. Some special technique?

We use mud tubes for putting on mud for the finishing mud coat, and use a pole mounted flusher - usually more use flushers than angle heads in our commercial work - for spreading the mud.

As for feathering angle edges, maybe a master of the obvious statement, but: One way I've found to do that is to use a sandpaper that has enough give on its face. Used to use a foam back paper for that, but now use Joest sandpaper. It's backing offers just enough give for feathering out what my more rigid faced pole sander won't.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Reason why I ask is I haven't had much luck myself so far with angle boxes. Neither do I think did most of the tapers I work with, who have tried one. At least the ones I know of who have got one don't seem to be using them.
> 
> A fair amount of push required for one thing, I found. Also the 'splort' one gets when the box's lid pulls back out at times while using it, which sucks in air. Then it 'splorts' mud and air out when pushing on the box - I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows how to best deal with that. Some special technique?
> 
> ...


Does your angle box have springs? If so, lose them  If you're having air enter the box when filling try filling it from a closed position? It'll be harder to pump the mud in but you'll get only mud....

As for soft sanders, I've tried using the widow on angles run with a box, but still don't care for it. I'm not knocking angle heads, they definitely have their place...fast tape corners, and fast skim of the angle tape....Someone said it on here the other day ....use the tools to get mud on fast, and then you can pretty it up at your leisure and still come out ahead (or something like that).


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

slim i've never had a job full of perfectly feathered angles from using flushers either. maybe 15% are not as feathered as i would like but it still beats coating by hand.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Reason why I ask is I haven't had much luck myself so far with angle boxes. Neither do I think did most of the tapers I work with, who have tried one. At least the ones I know of who have got one don't seem to be using them.
> 
> A fair amount of push required for one thing, I found. Also the 'splort' one gets when the box's lid pulls back out at times while using it, which sucks in air. Then it 'splorts' mud and air out when pushing on the box - I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows how to best deal with that. Some special technique?
> 
> ...


100% agreed :thumbup:

And to throw my 2bucks in, angles are the number one thing you can pick at on most tapers. They are the number one thing you MIGHT change your system on the most. It might be the one system you won't share with another taper,,,,,,,,,, a secret

But on the other hand, I see more error from the painters, roller marks, drips, rough paint brushes used, dings etc, makes you wonder why you get so fussy with them some times

Don't let Slim scare you off tools Moore, you will find your own system with them:thumbsup:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> 1
> 
> Don't let Slim scare you off tools Moore, you will find your own system with them:thumbsup:


:lol:

Moore, don't listen to these nubbleheads....don't buy those new fangled whoozywhatsits to speed up your work on all that new construction. It's comforting to watch the South-of-the-Border fellas do all that hard work because you know you don't have the time, right?

Don't be scared off by me, just understand that you're not going to buy the tools and have a perfect job in 3-1/2 days......yet. Sh!t, I'm buying some so I don't have to turn down the work I'd rather not do but will do to keep me busier than a frog at the turd pile....


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Does your angle box have springs? If so, lose them  If you're having air enter the box when filling try filling it from a closed position? It'll be harder to pump the mud in but you'll get only mud....
> 
> As for soft sanders, I've tried using the widow on angles run with a box, but still don't care for it. I'm not knocking angle heads, they definitely have their place...fast tape corners, and fast skim of the angle tape....Someone said it on here the other day ....use the tools to get mud on fast, and then you can pretty it up at your leisure and still come out ahead (or something like that).


I'm not sure if I have seen a angle box with springs on it:blink:

I see a lot of guys dropping the angle box, It's fast, but it is ok to sacrifice a bit of speed for some quality. So just don't limit your self to the angle box. there is the mud runner, compound tube, CFS systems, maybe others I don't know of, then throw in all the different types of angle heads, you can find a kick arse system so.........


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I'm not sure if I have seen a angle box with springs on it:blink:
> 
> I see a lot of guys dropping the angle box, It's fast, but it is ok to sacrifice a bit of speed for some quality. So just don't limit your self to the angle box. there is the mud runner, compound tube, CFS systems, maybe others I don't know of, then throw in all the different types of angle heads, you can find a kick arse system so.........


I don't recall seeing one with springs either, but doesn't that sound like a spring problem to you? I've never tried a flusher and compound tube before, but I'm certainly thinking about it after hearing all you guys talk about it. ANYTHING to speed up angles when I need to....I've got a system that's pretty quick and I cheat whenever I can...but not as fast as anything even remotely automated.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> slim i've never had a job full of perfectly feathered angles from using flushers either. maybe 15% are not as feathered as i would like but it still beats coating by hand.


Fifteen percent seems a little high but I get what you're saying. Pretty much standard for every taper.:yes: We wish all angles were 90° but that will never happen.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Moore !!!!!!!!

If I were you, I would study the system that mudslingr runs (the canuck mudslinger) watch the vids he posted for installing tape. It's a easy system to pick up on. You can , lay tape, install bead and no-coat,pre-fill, and corner flush. That cp tube serves multiple functions. Guys will say it's too slow for laying tape etc, but for the investment you make (under $1000) it does more than that. Think about that, a bazooka is fast, but it only serves one function. same as the slop bucket and banjo. The simple cp tube does more than that:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

....


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> Does your angle box have springs? If so, lose them  If you're having air enter the box when filling try filling it from a closed position? It'll be harder to pump the mud in but you'll get only mud....


There aren't any springs on angle boxes that I know of. The air doesn't get in while filling it, but while operating it. Something about the design of them seems to make it easy for the angle box lid to want to suck back to its more open, starting position, which then sucks in air.

Some advice, so you don't find yourself disappointed: Borrow an angle box and try running it before you buy one.



SlimPickins said:


> As for soft sanders, I've tried using the widow on angles run with a box, but still don't care for it.


I had a Widow. It's too wide for feathering such an angles well. For one thing, you have too large a face on it and so it requires that much more pressure to target a specific area like an edge.

What seems to work for feathering is sanders that are narrower, such as BTE's: http://www.leadingedgedrywall.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item_id=4107

They're I think 3" wide, and it allows you to get at the edge better than wider sanders will, and apply more focused sanding pressure to the areas you want to feather out. You can sort of more 'finesse' the edges, as well as your other work. At the same time, because it's narrow, you want a non flip design, like BTE's, so it won't gouge your work.

I can tell the difference between it and the 3 1/2" wide one - 1/2" wider - that I also use for some things: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Pole-Sanders/Flex-Edge-Drywall-Sander

I can have a double foam layer on the 3 1/2" and still can't feather out edges as well as I can with the BTE, when the BTE has something like a foam back or Joest paper on it.

The 3 1/2" is what I use to sand things flat, by using no foam on it, but just the sanding paper mounted to the aluminum head and pressure pad. It works nicely for that. One of the other tapers borrowed it today to sand out some stuff before re-coating. He kept wanting it back when I'd come to get it for something.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Reason why I ask is I haven't had much luck myself so far with angle boxes. Neither do I think did most of the tapers I work with, who have tried one. At least the ones I know of who have got one don't seem to be using them.
> 
> A fair amount of push required for one thing, I found. Also the 'splort' one gets when the box's lid pulls back out at times while using it, which sucks in air. Then it 'splorts' mud and air out when pushing on the box - I've been meaning to ask if anyone knows how to best deal with that. Some special technique?
> 
> ...



Were you using the flushers instead of the mechanical heads on your corner box ? Flushers ARE a pain in the a$$ on a corner box because of the pressure needed to be applied. Just getting the flusher seated properly is hard enough and by that time you might have already pushed out ½ a box of mud seeing as it needs to be pretty darn thin.:furious: The mechanical heads work on the same pressure applied to get the mud out. Much easier.

I wouldn't use a mechanical head on a commercial job either. Save them for the real nice jobs. Don't use them where you have precast ceilings either. They cost too much to butcher them on that stuff. This is where tube and flushers prevail.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> There aren't any springs on angle boxes that I know of. The air doesn't get in while filling it, but while operating it. Something about the design of them seems to make it easy for the angle box lid to want to suck back to its more open, starting position, which then sucks in air.
> 
> Some advice, so you don't find yourself disappointed: Borrow an angle box and try running it before you buy one.
> 
> ...


How did you double post:blink:

We have both sizes of heads, never really noticed a difference with the widow though. But we only sand the edge of the angles, that's it. We keep away from the point as best we can. Then cut the point with a secret sponge sander we have:whistling2:

One big mistake I see tapers do, is putting the sanding head right into the point of the 90. keep away from the point at all cost. just sand the edge,,,,, thats it:yes:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

mudslingr said:


> Were you using the flushers instead of the mechanical heads on your corner box ? Flushers ARE a pain in the a$$ on a corner box because of the pressure needed to be applied. Just getting the flusher seated properly is hard enough and by that time you might have already pushed out ½ a box of mud seeing as it needs to be pretty darn thin.:furious: The mechanical heads work on the same pressure applied to get the mud out. Much easier.



I used a 3" Columbia mechanical head with a Columbia angle box. So I'd hope they were compatible enough.

But I was using the mechanicals like one uses flushers - from smaller size to larger size. Maybe I should've tried the 'go with 3" mechanical head when taping, followed by a 2 1/2" mechanical head' when finish coating, when using the angle box? Like Columbia/Aaron said they're designed to be used? Wonder how much easier that might've been, pushing wise.

But I don't know how good that initial 3" edge would've been. Maybe alright(?)

Still would've had the air 'splorting' issue, though. That's enough to not make me want to use angle boxes.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Moore !!!!!!!!
> 
> If I were you, I would study the system that mudslingr runs (the canuck mudslinger) watch the vids he posted for installing tape. It's a easy system to pick up on. You can , lay tape, install bead and no-coat,pre-fill, and corner flush. That cp tube serves multiple functions. Guys will say it's too slow for laying tape etc, but for the investment you make (under $1000) it does more than that. Think about that, a bazooka is fast, but it only serves one function. same as the slop bucket and banjo. The simple cp tube does more than that:yes:


I'll go one farther 2buck !
I'm going to try and make a more detailed video on how to use a tube and flushers in the next week or so. If it works out well I'll post it for moore to see. Then, if he's interested I'd be glad to send him an almost new set of flushers,tube and applicators.:yes: I used them 2 or 3 times only because I have 5 sets. Couldn't just leave a brand new set of tools sit in the closet ya know !


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> We have both sizes of heads, never really noticed a difference with the widow though. But we only sand the edge of the angles, that's it. We keep away from the point as best we can. Then cut the point with a secret sponge sander we have:whistling2:
> 
> One big mistake I see tapers do, is putting the sanding head right into the point of the 90. keep away from the point at all cost. just sand the edge,,,,, thats it:yes:



Okay, so which is it. Sand the point, or don't sand it. Unless you don't consider cutting the point as sanding it. 

Your edges might be nicer than what Slim ran into.

I do/did notice the difference between 3, 3 1/2, and 4" widths. (Widow is 4" wide? I'd have to dig out my busted one to make sure.) Narrower just seems easier and better to me when it comes to things like feathering.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

JustMe said:


> I used a 3" Columbia mechanical head with a Columbia angle box. So I'd hope they were compatible enough.
> 
> But I was using the mechanicals like one uses flushers - from smaller size to larger size. Maybe I should've tried the 'go with 3" mechanical head when taping, followed by a 2 1/2" mechanical head' when finish coating, when using the angle box? Like Columbia/Aaron said they're designed to be used? Wonder how much easier that might've been, pushing wise.
> 
> ...


Stick with the 2 then the 3. Works better. Sounds like your mud might need to be a little thinner. Like Slim said make sure your box is closed when you fill it (pushed all the way in) and keep filling till it comes out the head. Gotta push the air outta there ! Or your seals are shot ?

Or, you keep tilting the box in an improper manner after you finish running an angle. You can't just spin that thing around like a cheerleaders baton ya know ! Gotta hold it so you don't allow the box to open up while you're using it cause that will definitely suck up some air.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Okay, so which is it. Sand the point, or don't sand it. Unless you don't consider cutting the point as sanding it.
> 
> Your edges might be nicer than what Slim ran into.
> 
> I do/did notice the difference between 3, 3 1/2, and 4" widths. (Widow is 4" wide? I'd have to dig out my busted one to make sure.) Narrower just seems easier and better to me when it comes to things like feathering.


No your right, the thinner head will apply more pressure, but our angles are so PERFECT and smooth, we merely sand so the paint will stick .(do you feel a sudden need for a shovel):whistling2:

Keep away from the 90 degree point with the pole sander, the pole sander can do major damage to the point. Even when your trying to keep from the point, your sander will remain a 1 1/2" away or so while your sanding the edge. The pole sander and sponge sander are too different entities in my books. So one it depends on what type of sponge you have, and the majority of my points are not getting sponged ............ your getting into secret territory now :yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Well isnt all this getting interesting, Flex edge sanders are good, The tapeworm 4 anglehead produces the finest angles :whistling2: Much better than flushers and the smaller heads, Edge sanding is a non issue, The 4 inch wide head takes care of everything, Very little sanding needed and a great sharp corner :yes: Its the supreme corner above all, Well that i know of anyway after doing them with all the tools and other ways i could fined and all the ways mentioned above.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

mudslingr said:


> Stick with the 2 then the 3. Works better. Sounds like your mud might need to be a little thinner. Like Slim said make sure your box is closed when you fill it (pushed all the way in) and keep filling till it comes out the head. Gotta push the air outta there ! Or your seals are shot ?


Mud was pretty thin, like taping mud. But maybe could've tried it a little thinner(?)

Seals are good and box gets filled like you describe.



mudslingr said:


> Or, you keep tilting the box in an improper manner after you finish running an angle. You can't just spin that thing around like a cheerleaders baton ya know ! Gotta hold it so you don't allow the box to open up while you're using it cause that will definitely suck up some air.:yes:


Baton twirling. lol.

No matter how I tried to be with it - without being 'ridiculous' - the lid would find a moment to pop back to starting position, even when the laws of physics seemed to suggest it shouldn't have happened.  Then it would suck air. 

Maybe it is technique that's lacking on my part when it comes to the 'splorting' issue. But I don't know. They just seem really touchy/finicky to run. Maybe I'll have to give it another try though, just to be sure.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> There aren't any springs on angle boxes that I know of. The air doesn't get in while filling it, but while operating it. Something about the design of them seems to make it easy for the angle box lid to want to suck back to its more open, starting position, which then sucks in air.
> 
> Some advice, so you don't find yourself disappointed: Borrow an angle box and try running it before you buy one.
> 
> ...


I didn't think there were springs on the angle box, but with all the tools out there that I haven't tried I couldn't be sure....I'll readily admit my ignorance about all the intricacies of the automated tools.

I have however run an angle box more than a little...perhaps I'm more than a little particular when I run it, as opposed to most of the guys that I've followed. It seems like speed is king with those guys, when a little more care saves a lot of time. I've noticed the same thing with some flat-box runners...they're more concerned with how _fast_ they can get mud on the wall than how _well_ they can get it on. As an example, I currently work about 50% of the time with an older fella who's a fine hand finisher, but his tool work is a bit on the rough side. He'll stop running angles to fall back and pick, when I'd much prefer that he keep running (or let me do it for crying out loud) because he likes to pick them when really wet. He also leaves a LOT of mud at his starts...it's virtually impossible to pick a clean corner without also wiping the gobs out a foot or more in every direction. A little build-up at the start is one thing, but it seems like he's got the wrong angle during application or something. I like to run tight, let them set up a bit and then pick...much nicer results. Maybe, just maybe, I'm tapping into the too fresh memory of following him the other day on angles....and then having to sand his work the following day. I'll look into this Joest paper that you talk about...might be something worth investigating. As for flushers, I have never seen anyone around here use them...I'd never even heard of them until coming on Drywall Talk...Everyone here uses "regular" tape sets...bazooka, roller, glazer, flat boxes, angle box, etc.

I hope I didn't come across as a know-it-all down on the tools...I'm not. I've used them quite a bit, and I don't suffer any illusions that they produce perfect work. That being said, if I had the cash right now, I'd buy a bazooka, roller, glazer, pump......and angle box. Then, a job that would take me 5 looong days would take 3 to 3 1/2 days, and more than likely they would be short days. Or...I could just keep pushing the hand work jobs and clay and plaster.:whistling2: Maybe my niche is a good one!


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

cazna said:


> Well isnt all this getting interesting, Flex edge sanders are good, The tapeworm 4 anglehead produces the finest angles :whistling2: Much better than flushers and the smaller heads, Edge sanding is a non issue, The 4 inch wide head takes care of everything, Very little sanding needed and a great sharp corner :yes: Its the supreme corner above all, Well that i know of anyway after doing them with all the tools and other ways i could fined and all the ways mentioned above.



Just curious cazna ! What size are your mud containers and about how many would you use on let's say a 7,000sq job or about 650sq meters( i think ) of board ?


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> No matter how I tried to be with it - without being 'ridiculous' - the lid would find a moment to pop back to starting position, even when the laws of physics seemed to suggest it shouldn't have happened.  Then it would suck air.
> 
> Maybe it is technique that's lacking on my part when it comes to the 'splorting' issue. But I don't know. They just seem really touchy/finicky to run. Maybe I'll have to give it another try though, just to be sure.


I'm thinking about this more now...are you close to the wall or far away? The only way I can see the back of the angle box sucking air is if you're applying a lot of leverage toward the bottom of the box...ie you're pretty close to the wall with your arms stretched out behind you? I'm perplexed, because I don't ever remember an angle box sucking air in while running it.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cazna said:


> The tapeworm 4 anglehead produces the finest angles The 4 inch wide head takes care of everything, Very little sanding needed and a great sharp corner Its the supreme corner above all, Well that i know of anyway after doing them with all the tools and other ways i could fined and all the ways mentioned above.


:thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup:

Cha-ching! That's what I wanted to hear.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

JustMe said:


> But maybe could've tried it a little thinner(?)
> They just seem really touchy/finicky to run. Maybe I'll have to give it another try though, just to be sure.


Yes to all 3 of these statements.
Sometimes you think the mud is too thin but it's really not. Just have to move your butt a bit faster and not push as hard. All depends on your tape coat also. Is it deep or shallow.
Some seals also have a tighter fit which helps to prevent the b*tch from slipping back.
Don't give up. Change things up a bit and see what works.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I'll look into this Joest paper that you talk about...might be something worth investigating.


They seem to burn out quicker. But I use them a lot for sanding away edges and other small-ish defects like scratches - 'finessing' - and leave the bulk sanding to silicon carbide sheets.

All-Wall on them -: http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Abrasives-Drywall-Sheets/Joest-Drywalll-Sanding-Sheets

I don't know what/where dave s. is getting his comment on the bottom from. What sandpaper he's comparing them to. I don't find them overly long lasting if you use them for all your sanding, especially not 4 times.



SlimPickins said:


> As for flushers, I have never seen anyone around here use them...I'd never even heard of them until coming on Drywall Talk...


They can take abuse, like screws sticking out in corners. Good for our commercial jobs, which can at times get a little rough on corner tools.

A 3 1/2" flusher, like 2buck has said he uses, can leave a nice edge. It's what I also use to finish with.

Probably the 2 biggest makers are BTE and Can-Am. I've used both and prefer the Can-Am, even though they use a larger ball size, so I stick a piece of paper on my flusher handle's ball to tighten things up.

One thing you have to do with flushers is push in harder with them than you would with mechanical heads, if you want a corner not built up.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm thinking about this more now...are you close to the wall or far away? The only way I can see the back of the angle box sucking air is if you're applying a lot of leverage toward the bottom of the box...ie you're pretty close to the wall with your arms stretched out behind you? I'm perplexed, because I don't ever remember an angle box sucking air in while running it.


It's not while running it - ie. putting pressure to it - but before you get the chance. Like when you're trying to get it to the wall to run it.

Maybe it's as mudslingr says - some seals are tight and help keep the lid from slipping back. I don't know if I'd consider my seals tight. It's a Columbia 7", which I'm not sure would make a difference. Columbia does seem to have criterias for tool making that differs from some other manufacturers.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

JustMe said:


> Probably the 2 biggest makers are BTE and Can-Am. I've used both and prefer the Can-Am, even though they use a larger ball size, so I stick a piece of paper on my flusher handle's ball to tighten things up.


I'm still up to debate on the two, I always thought my BTE tools were can-ams, till I came to this site, so I must claim ignorance. I always wondered why some of me can-ams had adjustable runners, well some didn't. thought it was a wiper flusher thing.

So now that I know better, the BTE's are adjustable, you can move the runners on them so you can get the mud loading real tight. The can-am is what you see is what you get. Really nice edge with the can-am, but it loads a bit too much in the middle, which takes too long to dry and leaves too much potential for pin holes. Plus the big negative to me is, 6 months and the can-am is worn already.

So I'm getting a BTE next time, to pay attention to the difference between the two, b/c of the adjustable runners, and I know I got more than a years service out of the BTE, I'm leaning towards it........ maybe,,,,,,we shall see


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

try a straight pole,,,no bend at end.Columbia has a bent at the tip handel i think. We have a backup anglebox (columbia) dont ever use only if have too... decent box just dont like handel


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Just curious cazna ! What size are your mud containers and about how many would you use on let's say a 7,000sq job or about 650sq meters( i think ) of board ?


 
Sorry Mudslingr, I cant answer that one, I dont work with sqm, I just back cost plans etc from my diary, That has hrs worked and materials used so i just compare and price from that, Might sound silly but it works for me. I have been using the sheetrock buckets and boxes or the NZ mud which are 15Litres. The tapeworm 4 does use more mud but prob only a couple extra buckets per house with a 250sqm floor area, but then we cove a lot so its only upright corners on those. I use the tapeworm on the runner.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> :thumbup::thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup:
> 
> Cha-ching! That's what I wanted to hear.


Nah you wouldnt like it Slim, It does a great job, sharp corner, no edge ridges, Nice coat of mud over the paper so it dosnt paper blow out, You can quickly pass the PC sander down the corner, Takes care of unsquare corners and high shoulders, Leaves a nice corner for the paint roller, IE, Not steep cause its wide, not short, Best you dont get one or anyone else, Then your corner problems would be solved and we would have nothing to talk about :yes:

Oh, But i do use a runner with it.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> I'll go one farther 2buck !
> I'm going to try and make a more detailed video on how to use a tube and flushers in the next week or so. If it works out well I'll post it for moore to see. Then, if he's interested I'd be glad to send him an almost new set of flushers,tube and applicators.:yes: I used them 2 or 3 times only because I have 5 sets. Couldn't just leave a brand new set of tools sit in the closet ya know !


I found one video for Moore, and it's made by our newest member, tape tec






Then this vid BTE is saying their way is faster





Then there's this one mudslingr:whistling2:
nothing on installing tape with cp tube though


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Good clips 2buck :thumbsup:

Hey Moore, Im praising up the tapeworm but i wouldnt be without the CP, Corner applactors or flushers, They are good and very fast, On smaller jobs with crap fixing (Man i could have posted the worst ever a few weeks ago but didnt have a camara) Or with hotmuds they are great, Only on bigger jobs were i want quaility the tapeworm comes out, Its not faster, Just sharper, But like the capt says, Is all about the sanding so you get what im on about.

And if we were to talk Compound tubes, I like the Tapepro/blueline better than my can ams. They are bigger, more solid, Move more mud, and the weird shaped crook ball end works well, But i do like the short canam for cupboards etc, Hey the crap fixing job i mentioned above!! I used the short canam to pre fill the gaps, Corners and between the flats with hot mud


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cazna said:


> It does a great job, sharp corner, no edge ridges, Nice coat of mud over the paper so it dosnt paper blow out, You can quickly pass the PC sander down the corner, Takes care of unsquare corners and high shoulders


 Hey Caz, I wonder if it has something to do with using a mudrunner and not having to push so hard on the anglehead.


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

JustMe said:


> It's not while running it - ie. putting pressure to it - but before you get the chance. Like when you're trying to get it to the wall to run it.
> 
> Maybe it's as mudslingr says - some seals are tight and help keep the lid from slipping back. I don't know if I'd consider my seals tight. It's a Columbia 7", which I'm not sure would make a difference. Columbia does seem to have criterias for tool making that differs from some other manufacturers.


 Is there a film of mud left behind on the inside wall of the anglebox? or does the seal wipe it clean?
My Northstar runs well, the only "splort" I get is if I get air in the pump...maybe check your pump, on the first fill I squeeze it back into the bucket to get that first air pocket out of it.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Let me first state I AM NO EXPERT.
I have only recently started getting results with the angle head that I am happy with. There are two things that have bought this about.
1: THE MUDRUNNER. 
The runner gives you acurate control over the amount of mud you apply & it does not suck air.
2: A PROPERLY ADJUSTED HEAD.
check out the columbia vid
http://www.facebook.com/ColumbiaTapingTools
Understanding the mechanics of the angle head is realy important to achieve the results that you want. The "rock" controles the amount of mud ( more rock = more mud). The blade height in relation to the skids adjusts your feather. (just like a box)
Columbia run the blades and skids level. But for me I have found that if I run the blades about half a thumb nail thickness above the skids it gives a better feather. Like I said I am no expert. Just trying to help.


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## Brian S (Apr 17, 2011)

*"Flushers ARE a pain in the a$$ on a corner box because of the pressure needed to be applied. Just getting the flusher seated properly is hard enough and by that time you might have already pushed out ½ a box of mud seeing as it needs to be pretty darn thin"*

Mudslinger
With the flusher, have you taken that small triangle off in the middle of the flusher.
I did this a long while back and can now use the same mud as the boxes


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## muttbucket (Jul 10, 2011)

So,
I use a 3" anglehead to both plow and finish my angles,
I stripe all my angles a second coat with the 3" nailspotter
a cornerbox will work perfect if you know how to run 1
the only extension handle I use gives me 12 foot reach from the floor.
Usually enough.
Piss thin mud.
trying to run angles with gorilla arm mud will give you a bad attitude.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Brian S said:


> mudslingr
> With the flusher, have you taken that small triangle off in the middle of the flusher.
> I did this a long while back and can now use the same mud as the boxes


Sure did ! It's at the bottom of Lake Superior now. Good place for it in my opinion.
Seriously though, I have never had luck using a direct flusher with a tube. Seems that the tension between the flusher and the ball on the tube is never consistent and makes it very difficult to use in that way. I do try whenever I buy a new flusher. Just haven't found one that works good yet.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

JustMe said:


> It's not while running it - ie. putting pressure to it - but before you get the chance. Like when you're trying to get it to the wall to run it.
> 
> Maybe it's as mudslingr says - some seals are tight and help keep the lid from slipping back. I don't know if I'd consider my seals tight. It's a Columbia 7", which I'm not sure would make a difference. Columbia does seem to have criterias for tool making that differs from some other manufacturers.


 Well, for the time being, what about after you've pumped the box full, turn it angle-head side up and tap it on the bucket edge to settle the mud, then grab the box head and push what air is in there out (there shouldn't be any if when you've filled it up mud has squirted out of the angle head). Then be conscious of how you hold it when you walk over to the wall. You know your physics...maybe it's the way you hold it when getting to the wall? I think when I'm walking with one I generally keep the angle head pointed up, but it's been a while and my brain is having trouble accessing my muscle memory If so, I'd say some new seals are definitely in order.....they can keep mud from coming out, but still not be tight enough to make the tool perform properly.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cazna said:


> Nah you wouldnt like it Slim, It does a great job, sharp corner, no edge ridges, Nice coat of mud over the paper so it dosnt paper blow out, You can quickly pass the PC sander down the corner, Takes care of unsquare corners and high shoulders, Leaves a nice corner for the paint roller, IE, Not steep cause its wide, not short, Best you dont get one or anyone else, Then your corner problems would be solved and we would have nothing to talk about :yes:
> 
> Oh, But i do use a runner with it.


I was wondering about that (mudrunner). We used to tape with a 3", then skim with the 2-1/2"...easy to push the box, edges sand easy over the tape, etc. When I first used a 3" to skim it was a lot of work, and I can't even imagine using a 4" without some mechanical assistance.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Kiwiman said:


> Is there a film of mud left behind on the inside wall of the anglebox? or does the seal wipe it clean?
> My Northstar runs well, the only "splort" I get is if I get air in the pump...maybe check your pump, on the first fill I squeeze it back into the bucket to get that first air pocket out of it.


It wipes clean. Pump should be good - at least it doesn't give me air in my bazooka.



SlimPickins said:


> If so, I'd say some new seals are definitely in order.....they can keep mud from coming out, but still not be tight enough to make the tool perform properly.



Box is one year old this month, with little use to it, so seals should still be fine.

One reason I'm thinking along the lines of mudslingr's comment of some seals on angle boxes maybe being tighter, and so help keep the lid closed, is based on my Columbia mud tube. With the Can-Am tubes I was using before I got the Columbia, I could fill a Can-Am with water and transfer it to a bucket of mud with little water coming out if I didn't hold the tip up higher than the tube. With the Columbia, try doing that and you'll be losing water fast.

The Columbia tube is definitely easier to push mud out of than Can-Ams, and it does it cleanly, with no mud getting behind the plunger seal. So it seems its plunger fit is looser than a Can-Am, but still adequate, for mud.

I'm wondering if they did the same with the seals on their angle boxes - making them a maybe easier box to push, but maybe also more prone to opening up, which then sucks air in through the angle head.

Maybe they fairly recently changed the make up of the seals on their newer angle boxes? Maybe I'll have to ask Columbia Tech/Aaron on that.

In the meantime, I'm going to see about getting someone I'm going to be working with a bit next week to bring his angle box that I think he still has, and see if there's a difference.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> I'm still up to debate on the two, I always thought my BTE tools were can-ams, till I came to this site, so I must claim ignorance. I always wondered why some of me can-ams had adjustable runners, well some didn't. thought it was a wiper flusher thing.
> 
> So now that I know better, the BTE's are adjustable, you can move the runners on them so you can get the mud loading real tight. The can-am is what you see is what you get. Really nice edge with the can-am, but it loads a bit too much in the middle, which takes too long to dry and leaves too much potential for pin holes. Plus the big negative to me is, 6 months and the can-am is worn already.
> 
> So I'm getting a BTE next time, to pay attention to the difference between the two, b/c of the adjustable runners, and I know I got more than a years service out of the BTE, I'm leaning towards it........ maybe,,,,,,we shall see


Good point about the adjusting for corners. The Can-Ams give us what we need - at least clients don't complain - but commercial can often be less picky than residential.

I'm a bit surprised that you only get 1/2 the life out of a Can-Am, than you do from a BTE. Ours seem to hold up well. But if that's what you get from them, that's what you get. You probably run a lot more angles with yours in the same time frame than we do with ours on commercial. And with us, it's often whoever happens to have their flushers handiest on a site, when there's a few tapers.

I talked to a supplier awhile ago about Blueline's new glazer: http://www.leadingedgedrywall.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item_id=4668

He said that's one that will burn out fast - lighter metal used.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

*Emperor*



cazna said:


> Get the tools moore, Come over to the darkside, Get the tools :yes: you know you want to, They are fun :whistling2:





:wacko:The Emperor has spoken


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

*Sh4t*



2buckcanuck said:


> I'm not sure if I have seen a angle box with springs on it:blink:
> 
> I see a lot of guys dropping the angle box, It's fast, but it is ok to sacrifice a bit of speed for some quality. So just don't limit your self to the angle box. there is the mud runner, compound tube, CFS systems, maybe others I don't know of, then throw in all the different types of angle heads, you can find a kick arse system so.........


Sh$t 2Peso you for got to mention Me King-Pin of Angles


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

I bid on a new house board and tape job a couple weeks ago. My painter friend told me about it after he referred me.
He came by yesterday and said " I just came by to let you know why you didn't get the job." 
I had no idea about that because nobody called me back. 
So I said " That's ok, I'm too busy anyway." 
Then he says " You didn't get it because you were $4,000 too low." We both broke out laughing real hard ! Six quotes within $500 of each other except mine.
I have never lost a job before because someone felt I was too low thus meaning I couldn't possibly know wtf I am doing.:blink:
It's between 9-10,000sq board feet, 8' ceilings,outside basement walls,minimal bullnose and a one car garage. Piece of cake ! Would take my partner and I about 4 days to board and 5 to tape it up
I quoted $7,000 for labour which worked out to about .70¢/sq.
I have been getting an unusual amount of calls for work lately and realize that means guys are quite busy around here because most of my work is word of mouth and a few smaller home builders that don't like to give out my name for fear of losing me.
I'm telling people right now to call me back in a couple months. I love the looks you get when you tell them that !
I guess my prices on private stuff are about to rise.:yes:
I ALWAYS strive to be fair to the homeowner and my self but HOLY SH1T I'm not missing out on this boom !:no:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

*moore's new toys*

Here you go moore ! Just thought I'd show you what you have coming soon. Figured I'd give you a set of direct flushers if you want to try that route sometime.


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## CatD7 (Jul 25, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Agreeded,, there is a multitude of finshers out there that would rather use hand tools than make a good living.
> 
> Its all in what ya want


 
I am kind of stuck there. Guys like me can be pretty stubborn.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> Here you go moore ! Just thought I'd show you what you have coming soon. Figured I'd give you a set of direct flushers if you want to try that route sometime.


Nice pics and I need to thank you too.

One of your post you were saying to bend/pry on the head to open it more. I was doing that today and I remembered, put something under the tension wires (or what ever you call them) I tore off the corner of a mud box, and placed two small bits of the cardboard where the tension wires met the flusher head. Worked sweet.

Also, I sharpened the edge of the head with one of these http://www.walmart.com/ip/Paderno-World-Cuisine-10-Round-Knife-Sharpener/11265397 a 10" round knife sharpener. Worked great, maybe too good so be careful. It worked better than a file. Even 2bjr had a trowel with a ding in it, the knife sharpener took it right out.

Might be another tool to add everyone's tool box........... Cazna the clean:whistling2:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks .. Mudslingr..


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## tomg (Dec 16, 2009)

JustMe said:


> I talked to a supplier awhile ago about Blueline's new glazer: http://www.leadingedgedrywall.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item_id=4668
> 
> He said that's one that will burn out fast - lighter metal used.


Those glazers are made from .70mm (.027") 316 grade stainless steel.
I'm pretty sure that's slightly thicker than the others. They are lighter because the skids and ball socket are made from a low friction, high strength industrial plastic.

Cheers,
Tom.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

tomg said:


> Those glazers are made from .70mm (.027") 316 grade stainless steel.
> I'm pretty sure that's slightly thicker than the others. They are lighter because the skids and ball socket are made from a low friction, high strength industrial plastic.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom.


I micrometered a new BTE 2" I have sitting by my computer. Wings are .0255", so thickness wise yours is thicker. I don't have a Can-Am handy to do the same measuring with - mine are on a jobsite.

The BTE is stainless as well, but I'm not finding the grade. (Side note: I just noticed on a sticker on it that says the flusher was made in Canada. Is that where BTE is? Somewhere on the west coast? I thought I maybe came across something like that one time, but forgot.)

So the supplier and I stand corrected. Thanks, Tom. (With all these manufacturers showing up, we're going to have to really watch what we claim to know.)


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

you all spend as much time posting as you do working around here ? 

JS

:whistling2:

almost a 100 post just over 10 days :blink:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

moore said:


> I know I've said It before,, but this time I mean It ,,,soon..
> Thanks guys
> I'm so tired of running angles by hand ,,I could puke.. Capt Is right.
> Angles are 55 percent of the finishing time.
> ...


Get a Mudrunner and learn to run it once with thick enough mud. You can thank me later, in beer or cash. F*** all them pretend corner tools.

Oh yeah, your forearm will hate my guts if you do get your mud right.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

That's not nice.  bad mod.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> That's not nice.  bad mod.


He's a drywaller, that should explain everything:whistling2:

Besides , pretend corner tools are awesome , you get to PRETEND sand behind them too


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

Mudstar said:


> you all spend as much time posting as you do working around here ?
> 
> JS
> 
> ...


You make that sound like it's a bad thing.



moore said:


> That's not nice.  bad mod.


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

JustMe said:


> You make that sound like it's a bad thing.


get back to work slackers


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudstar said:


> get back to work slackers


Are you trying to make it a 101 post in ten days:whistling2:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

*lol*



2buckcanuck said:


> He's a drywaller, that should explain everything:whistling2:
> 
> Besides , pretend corner tools are awesome , you get to PRETEND sand :laughing:behind them too


 best I heard all day


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks Mudslingr..


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks Capt-sheetrock,,, If the checks no good . Let me know ,,i'll send another just like It..:yes:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

moore said:


> Thanks Mudslingr..


You're very welcome moore ! I KNOW you'll like using them.:yes:
I see that Capt-sheetrock has sent you a pump and corner box. Awesome !:thumbsup: You probably should use that with mechanical heads and not the flushers. 
IMO mechanical heads should be bought new, not used. That's one tool you don't want to fiddle with ! Columbia all the way ! Would really be great if you could find someone that uses them and get them to give you a crack at them.
I think it's safe to say you're smiling a little moore today !

Sorry about all the tape ! Didn't want Customs to bang it up.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> You're very welcome moore ! I KNOW you'll like using them.:yes:
> I see that Capt-sheetrock has sent you a pump and corner box. Awesome !:thumbsup: You probably should use that with mechanical heads and not the flushers.
> IMO mechanical heads should be bought new, not used. That's one tool you don't want to fiddle with ! Columbia all the way ! Would really be great if you could find someone that uses them and get them to give you a crack at them.
> I think it's safe to say you're smiling a little moore today !
> ...


I know mudslingr . done my research ,,,The machine guys here hate me. sad really ,, I,m not like that . They look at me as a threat :blink: I would love to work with them a week or just a day but there bosses are a holes and the guys running the machines don't speak English...


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Three cheers for the Capt & Mudslinger. Hip hip horay, Hip hip horay, Hip hip horay.:thumbup:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Hey Moore I got a couple 3" angle heads I don't use if you need one.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Hey Moore I got a couple 3" angle heads I don't use if you need one.


thanks PA I'm good for now,,but will keep it in mind.:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> I know mudslingr . done my research ,,,The machine guys here hate me. sad really ,, I,m not like that . They look at me as a threat :blink: I would love to work with them a week or just a day but there bosses are a holes and the guys running the machines don't speak English...


Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!! moore has got tools

I would be afraid of you too, you sound like a work horse:thumbup:

Take it slow and easy at 1st, slowly work your way into the tools, Rome was not built in a day.

You know where to come to for help, you can PM anytime you want.

And Captain and mudslingr, that was really really great of you two, I think I'm going to cry


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Good one Moore :thumbup: If it's not working for you there's plenty of shoulders to cry on here, just don't expect it to be a breeze on the first go, it only gets better from there, then for the next several years it will seem like you are only working to buy bigger and better tools.:thumbsup:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> I found one video for Moore, and it's made by our newest member, tape tec
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxS0IKT5B0&NR=1
> 
> ...


 U will b all day in a room if u go with this guys method!!


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

moore said:


> Thanks Capt-sheetrock,,, If the checks no good . Let me know ,,i'll send another just like It..:yes:


 Moore u got lucky with that pump(blueline)
Best pump i have had but the plate inside it breaks now and again! I have rebuilt my one 2 much times so if it goes get 2 plates and double them up,never had a problem again:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## E.K Taper (Jun 15, 2011)

:thumbup: Hey Moore, well done sir !!!!! Welcome to the dark side!!:thumbsup:
I got blueline pump which is prob older than I am, and it works perfect, never had an issue with it. Good luck trying the tools and remember to take your time at 1st, get to know how they work and your off:yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

VANMAN said:


> Moore u got lucky with that pump(blueline)
> Best pump i have had but the plate inside it breaks now and again! I have rebuilt my one 2 much times so if it goes get 2 plates and double them up,never had a problem again:thumbup::thumbsup:


 Glad you said that,,, I just re-built that pump and hadn't used it since i did. I doubled the bottom plate, so he's set. I didn't mention it cause I didn't want him to think that I'm as crazy as i am.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Found this well surfing Moore,made think of you and your new tools


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