# Ceiling Problem



## In2drywall (Jan 21, 2012)

I have been drywalling for almost 30 years, we have had a contract with a production home for 12 years, The homes are built with a truss system where the bottom cord of the truss cambers freely, the truss cords float freely off the top plate. We recently completed a home where the ceilings looked great during the day and then as soon as the lights where installed we saw the outline of every sheet, this has never happened to me and I am lost as to how it happened. Any one have any ideas??

Also we hung the drywall and applied the firist 2 coats during November. The house was not heated by the General contractor, we stopped finishing and waited about 2 weeks before the GC got the heat working and then we started the 3rd coat and finished the job.
The heat sorce is Geo thermal.
It is only the flats that show and only on the ceilings. The taper is a 62 yr old gentlemen that has been working for us for 12 years and we have never had a problem like this with him.
He used a 6 to set, a 10 to 2nd coat and a 12 to 3rd coat.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

If you can, go back to the job and push on the sheets. If any screws pop or move, could be the rock was still damp. Once the rock has dried, it will shrink just a bit, but enough to expose the joints,,,,, But !!!!!!! that's just one idea, but that one I have suggested deals with the environment under which job was completed, (proper heat, humidity etc..)

Then, there's what material did you use, how wide did you coat your joints etc.... need more info:yes:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> If you can, go back to the job and push on the sheets. If any screws pop or move, could be the rock was still damp. Once the rock has dried, it will shrink just a bit, but enough to expose the joints,,,,, But !!!!!!! that's just one idea, but that one I have suggested deals with the environment under which job was completed, (proper heat, humidity etc..)
> 
> Then, there's what material did you use, how wide did you coat your joints etc.... need more info:yes:


good one 2buck sounds likE SHRANKAGE, or it froze or 2 cold and back to shrink

Or the mud was frozen before sold to you, that you have to catch right away

the other one is ceiling was taped in with no insulation under it


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

You see the outline of every sheet.. Just in ceiling?? Propane heat??


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> You see the outline of every sheet.. Just in ceiling?? Propane heat??


Oh Oh Oh , that's a good one, Once upon a time, they use to place warnings on the mud boxes about propane heat. but not no more


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

REALLY! They did?:blink:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> the other one is ceiling was taped in with no insulation under it





moore said:


> Just in ceiling?? Propane heat??



Two very good reasons ! Propane was found to do this and was stopped very quickly.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh Oh Oh , that's a good one, Once upon a time, they use to place warnings on the mud boxes about propane heat. but not no more



I have never had much of a problem with Propane heat as if no window is open then yes you have a problem

running a whole tank in a night is crazy I always thought did a shack in the Autumn, was cold enough but I left the heat on low just a crack in the window upstairs, heat ran for 4 days dryed good and productive


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

In2drywall said:


> we saw the outline of every sheet


Is that a roundabout way of saying you see every joint? Or do you mean you're seeing the shoulders of each board through the joint?

Check your finisher's quality. Check the painter's quality. I wouldn't dig around for more exotic causes until you've ruled these out. 9/10 it's one of those.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I rufuse to have propane on the job. It took me years to figure out that it's a water hose.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> REALLY! They did?:blink:


Yep, it would be around 14 years ago, did a 6 story nursing home. And the unit where the salamanders were kept. the joints did not pass. Argued with the job site super, remember showing him the warning on the mud box. (think it was CGC red) but to no avail, I got stuck fixing for free...... life of a taper.

Then it was sometime later, some clown wanted to heat with propane. I went to show him the warning on box,,,, and it was gone

But it's fairly common knowledge where I live now, not to use propane. Only ones you see use it are brick layers. Too many safety rules here, to run them inside buildings:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Jason said:


> Is that a roundabout way of saying you see every joint? Or do you mean you're seeing the shoulders of each board through the joint?
> 
> Check your finisher's quality. Check the painter's quality. I wouldn't dig around for more exotic causes until you've ruled these out. 9/10 it's one of those.


Oh I forgot about that one, that's the best route to go..... Blame the PAINTER:thumbup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup::yes:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> I rufuse to have propane on the job. It took me years to figure out that it's a water hose.


I knew since days of Apprenticeship but you need air flow


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

moore said:


> I rufuse to have propane on the job. It took me years to figure out that it's a water hose.




I hate it too Moore but it didn't take years to figure out. Not just the moisture issue but I hate breathing that stuff into my lungs all day.


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> I have never had much of a problem with Propane heat as if no window is open then yes you have a problem



We used to have security walk around the site at night and close up all windows and doors to a few hundred homes of which about 40 were being taped at one time and had propane for heat.
That humidity along with extreme cold dampness outside was not a good thing. Joints would shrink and swell till eventually you would see them. Then in our humid summers it might have some more effect and cause it to swell and shrink some more.

Some crazy ass rule about having everything closed at night because of theft unfortunately made running propane extinct. Then came the natural gas heaters they brought in that you could cook hot dogs on top of. The worked great but had a 2" or so hose running from outside through a window and into the middle of the main floor. Do they still use these in southern Ontario ?

You are right though ! Make sure them windows are open !


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

Jason said:


> Is that a roundabout way of saying you see every joint? Or do you mean you're seeing the shoulders of each board through the joint?
> 
> Check your finisher's quality. Check the painter's quality. I wouldn't dig around for more exotic causes until you've ruled these out. 9/10 it's one of those.


true, coulda flashed a coat of paint on a wet surface with propane heat (closed windows) in the cold with no insulation on it and knocked the paint down 60/40 after freezing the paint:jester:


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> We used to have security walk around the site at night and close up all windows and doors to a few hundred homes of which about 40 were being taped at one time and had propane for heat.
> That humidity along with extreme cold dampness outside was not a good thing. Joints would shrink and swell till eventually you would see them. Then in our humid summers it might have some more effect and cause it to swell and shrink some more.
> 
> Some crazy ass rule about having everything closed at night because of theft unfortunately made running propane extinct. Then came the natural gas heaters they brought in that you could cook hot dogs on top of. The worked great but had a 2" or so hose running from outside through a window and into the middle of the main floor. Do they still use these in southern Ontario ?
> ...




Hotdog slingers Cafe' nice I brazed some ribs n rice on my heater


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

We did a home few years ago all the shoulders of recess bled through the stipple . Butts were fine ..Angles fine ,,but the recess bled through :blink: 
Found out the flunky was dipping mixing water from the masons water barrel .. The mason said the water was clean.. no antifreeze.. Who knows..We had to paint all the ceilings ..after 2 coats of flat white they were fine . no kilz.. just flat.. Just one of those that make ya say humm!:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

mudslingr said:


> We used to have security walk around the site at night and close up all windows and doors to a few hundred homes of which about 40 were being taped at one time and had propane for heat.
> That humidity along with extreme cold dampness outside was not a good thing. Joints would shrink and swell till eventually you would see them. Then in our humid summers it might have some more effect and cause it to swell and shrink some more.
> 
> Some crazy ass rule about having everything closed at night because of theft unfortunately made running propane extinct. Then came the natural gas heaters they brought in that you could cook hot dogs on top of. The worked great but had a 2" or so hose running from outside through a window and into the middle of the main floor. Do they still use these in southern Ontario ?
> ...


I know what heaters your talking about, you could cook on them, or at least warm up left overs

You would see them more on town house complexes. But I find with single detached homes, since the furnace warranty becomes void if running well taping. They race for the hydro hook up instead of the natural gas. Then heat with electric heat:yes:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

30 yrs is more experience than me but cant understand what trusses have to do with sheet outlining,are all seams and screw edges (mud edge) present or is it the factory edges showing thru like a slight shrink back or pooch(blister)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudshark said:


> I hate it too Moore but it didn't take years to figure out. Not just the moisture issue but I hate breathing that stuff into my lungs all day.


 I can see by your avitar ..It don't take ya long ta figure things out..:yes:


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

Too many scenarios to know what he is talking about. I wish when people post questions lime this one they would post pics plus details about job.


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## J Johnstone Construc (Nov 15, 2011)

Here ya go, right off the CGC web site.

And the side of every box of compound I get still says... 

" Use of gas or propane heat, may cause excessive shrinkage, cracking, or shadowing"

*Environmental Conditions​*​​​​Controlling and maintaining environmental conditions is key to minimizing potential problems during finishing
and decorating operations. Temperature, humidity, and airflow should remain constant, and match occupancy
conditions as closely as possible. Uncontrolled environmental conditions, (i.e., changes and/or fluctuations in
temperature, humidity and airflow) can have a profoundly adverse effect on system performance.​
*Changing Job Conditions and Drying​*​​​​As job atmospheric conditions become more humid and saturated with
water during joint treatment, painting, or other “wet” operations, drying time (and time in between applications) can
increase. At 55 °F (13 °C), with little ventilation, there can be as much as a four-time increase in drying time if
room humidity elevates from 50% to 90%. Temporary liquid fuel and gas heaters with open flames give off water
vapour as a by-product of combustion. As the ambient temperature rises (because warmer air holds more water)
the relative humidity may go down, while the actual amount of water increases. (The combustion of 1 gal. of
kerosene gives-off over a gallon of condensed water). 1This will delay the dry-out time of plaster, concrete, joint
treatment or other wet installations. Provide heat if needed to maintain temperatures above 55 °F (13 °C). Other
atmospheric conditions at the jobsite can result in similar changes in drying times. Refer to the Drywall Finishing
Council document, _Joint Compound Drying Time_, (dwfc.org) or the drying compound under tape chart in chapter
5, page 176 of the CGC Gypsum Constrtuction Handbook, Centennial Edition.​


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## saskataper (Mar 6, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> Oh Oh Oh , that's a good one, Once upon a time, they use to place warnings on the mud boxes about propane heat. but not no more


Synko boxes warn about using fossil fuel heaters saying it can cause adhesion and discolouration issues


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