# US Tapers so far behind Europe



## raymul

I stumbled across this forum and on reading, am amazed at the lack of technical knowledge and craftsmanship on your shores.

It seems ironic that Ames brothers were americans?...

I have watched many a video and discussions related to u.s taping and it is bewildering, I can only think you have a lot of butchers and bakers trying to make it in the industry given the minimal theory involved.

Take a look at British technique and application if you want to excel...

Regards

Ray


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## alltex

WHAT?Do you Scotts have to go to a university to tape drywall?Over here in the new world there are alot of very good craftsmen who could Tape and finish you boys out of business.In years gone by we have had more work than you could dream of let alone figure out how to get the job done on time and in budget!! NEXT...


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## fenez

Isn't drywall new to the europeans? I have heard some horror stories about taping and finishing over seas


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## raymul

*Of Course*

It goes without saying that us tradesmen have done it 'bigger' 'cheaper' and 'better'. Hey the whole world knows that...

Yes, no, NO.

The truth is that there is no cohesion in your market, too many cooks or crooks, which i am sure you know.

In the U.K, there is a standardised system which seems restrictive but in reality sorts the wheat from the chaff. Of course craftsmen such as i will modify practise to rise and therefore prosper, evolution.

Your trade system has, as usual, too many ingredients never mind the cooks.

So no sir, you are right on only the first, irrelevant, point.


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## fenez

Ray... what exactly is it you want to say? You guys over there are better? I assure you that there are many many very good and very capable finishers here as well.


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## raymul

*No*



fenez said:


> Ray... what exactly is it you want to say? You guys over there are better? I assure you that there are many many very good and very capable finishers here as well.


No, not in general, it seems that your craftsmanship and skill is being diluted by crooks and vagabonds whom think it easy to usurp tradesmen.

Our system although 'standardised' gives no patience nor gratitude to interlopers.

You have far too many variables that can cloud the issue.

Pick the best few materials, skill will then be the only denominator.

regards

Ray


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## fenez

Ahh I see where your going with this and yes you are right, amercan tradesmen have been devalued to the point of extinction. But to be honest it really is our own fault because as americans we support this type of behavior.


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## raymul

Ironically, machine tapers (we are called Ames tapers in the uk) are the least affected trade, given the tools 'entry fee' is substantial

Not many Poles or Romanians turn up with the equivalent of $4500 to buy the relevant mechanical tools and proclaim their aptitude, that is the crux!

In the uk Hand taping is inherently frowned upon, ridiculed by any major, serious main contractor.

We have eight mass produced materials that are industry standard and are accepted by the qs standards.

Bottom line... level playing field, now lets see your form...


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## fenez

Very different here, just basically how cheap can ya do it? gc or main contractors as you call them.. will overlook almost anything to get the job done the cheapest they can, quality is quickly becoming a luxury to most gc's.


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## raymul

Prob best to compare=

Terminology I kinda get u.s equivalent. 

Standardised list of building control accepted 'Ames Taping' or as you say drywall finishing.

Scrim (mesh) frowned upon, beneficial in timing but only if applied with fast set 'hot mud'
Velvet, (various guises but only through competitive manufacturers) - Air drying, no aggregates. (Mud)

Paper tape, internals (we say tying in) and crossers: (butt joints in u.s as you hang boards horizontally) our boards are 2.4 metre height which is building standard so, apart from commercial contracts a crosser or (butt) is only relevant to ceilings.

20 minute easyfill, says it all.

gyproc cove or cornice, paper clad details exactly the same as board finish.

Thats it, thereby its all down to form.


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## alltex

No matter how you say it ,its just drywall and not rockett science.


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## raymul

alltex said:


> No matter how you say it ,its just drywall and not rockett science.


Nor is it English grammar.

However...

Appreciation of craftsmanship is historical, 'When a man is hired for labour and pleases he must be paid before his sweat is dry'

As a third generation decorator that moved into taping as a distinguishing skill that could further our family business I was outraged at the skill levels in competition. You are either an interloper to the subtle art of finishing or at best apathetic to the industry.

Neurosurgeon or pot washer being the best is the real reward


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## fenez

Ray..if everyone shared that sentiment what agreat place this world would be. but..most just view it as a job which they are under paid for and under appreciated for.


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## carpentaper

you are some kind of pompous ass. go be a little princess artist somewhere people care.


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## Taped Crusader

I think your soap box may be on the wrong corner Ray. Though there is a surplus of hacks and crooks out there, you're preaching it on a professional drywall forum. From what I've gathered here, most of the members are tradesmen who take pride in their work. The standard 'fly by nighter' doesn't care about his work and certainly isn't going to spend his free time surfing the web looking to discuss the finer points of the trade. That lack of effort or commitment is what contributes to them being a leech on our industry. 

So though there is an issue with under-skilled workmen polluting our trade, proclaiming they are all like that does little more than make you appear arrogant and narrow minded.


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## carpentaper

Taped Crusader said:


> I think your soap box may be on the wrong corner Ray. Though there is a surplus of hacks and crooks out there, you're preaching it on a professional drywall forum. From what I've gathered here, most of the members are tradesmen who take pride in their work. The standard 'fly by nighter' doesn't care about his work and certainly isn't going to spend his free time surfing the web looking to discuss the finer points of the trade. That lack of effort or commitment is what contributes to them being a leech on our industry.
> 
> So though there is an issue with under-skilled workmen polluting our trade, proclaiming they are all like that does little more than make you appear arrogant and narrow minded.


looks like somebody took a little more time to give an intelligent reply than i did. i had fun though.


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## thesprayking

Is it me or does this guy sound like some shakespeare/actor type trying to talk S**t about american tapers? Your posts are annoying to even read!! Like the post earlier from Alltex its not rocket science (spelled it right). Please dont bring your .50 cent words around here and try to mock tapers because we have better materials. I've been to the UK and worked there also, Those brick-layers turned drywallers were absolutely horrible at taping. They were amazed how slick my hand coating was with a pan and knife. And when I broke out the 12" box and crossed it off killer those guys wanted to get my autograph on their taping knives. You must be locked in some art studio reading Sheetrock Artist books because you apparently have not looked around your country. Unbelievable.


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## Kiwiman

raymul said:


> It seems ironic that Ames brothers were americans?...
> 
> I have watched many a video and discussions related to u.s taping and it is bewildering, I can only think you have a lot of butchers and bakers trying to make it in the industry given the minimal theory involved.
> 
> Take a look at British technique and application if you want to excel...
> 
> 
> Ray


Are you trying to melt all that snow you got at the moment by blowing hot air?
If you are trying to stir them up you should have just called them a bunch of *spacklers...:boxing::laughing::laughing::laughing:* In my books the land of drywall is America (and the canadians), and the land of bricks & cement render is Britain.


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## raymul

Typical u.s arrogant rsoles no wonder the world hates you. Here, why dont you 'nuke me' cause you dont like what I have to say. Should have guessed it would have turned into an arguement with you ingrates.
Our systems and tradesmen are far superior and theres an end to it!


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## Muddauber

. Here, why dont you 'nuke me'

Here ya go!:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke: :thumbup:


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## silverstilts

raymul said:


> Typical u.s arrogant rsoles no wonder the world hates you. Here, why dont you 'nuke me' cause you dont like what I have to say. Should have guessed it would have turned into an arguement with you ingrates.
> Our systems and tradesmen are far superior and theres an end to it!


 Really unless you have actually have been here , walked in our shoes , and have seen the work here, how on earth can you back up what you stated ? Talk about arrogant just listen to yourself. What are you basing your quality on anyhow?


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## Stormy_Ny

I have done jobs bigger then this Limey's whole town ..... WTF does he know.


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## csavage1

:whistling2:


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## alltex

I just figured you out rayBULL.you never worked a day in your life ,Went to a university(probobly a fine one).. you get on this website for pros and say things you read about on the net.Sorry you hate US so much but thats your problem.you should try getting some real experience then come back .


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## rebel20

Don't ya just love how the brits speak for all of Europe. Here in Germany 85% of finishers do it by hand and its quality work. Then again what can you expect for a country that won't even adapt to the european union. The lone rangers of Europe gee that's why there Largest gypsum company sold out to the French. BPB(Certain Teed) So they could be a part of Europe. Oh I forgot he is a Scott thats a colony of Great Britian.

And mybe he should check his history and see where and when Drywall came to Europe from in the first place.


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## [email protected]

At least the rant is in English instead of German, eh? Your welcome, Scotty. For both times.


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## raymul

Stormy_Ny said:


> I have done jobs bigger then this Limey's whole town ..... WTF does he know.


I rest my case


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## raymul

rebel20 said:


> Don't ya just love how the brits speak for all of Europe. Here in Germany 85% of finishers do it by hand and its quality work. Then again what can you expect for a country that won't even adapt to the european union. The lone rangers of Europe gee that's why there Largest gypsum company sold out to the French. BPB(Certain Teed) So they could be a part of Europe. Oh I forgot he is a Scott thats a colony of Great Britian.
> 
> And mybe he should check his history and see where and when Drywall came to Europe from in the first place.


Jesus, (aiming at southern bible belt extremists here, sorry no. All ingrates) 

You are backing the biggest polluters in the world that refused to sign up to the kyoto agreement and now only pay lip service to any doubters because of figurehead obama's desire to make history.

We lead Europe through common sense.

Hating your country is not a personal issue!!! Every nation considers you brash, cheap and unaccomplished, tacky fools best ignored unless a major movie is released, often sullied by u.s sickly sweet attitude....
In your words 'you get me'

You call baseball 'The world series'
**** you only play amongst yourselves (good idea) then proclaim the team world champions...


Too much singing of your superiority in a class as a child has fogged your reality.



Insular ingrate thieves with no history, style, only numbers.. sadly for the rest of the world... biggest economy handed to the least worthy to deal with it..


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## raymul

[email protected] said:


> At least the rant is in English instead of German, eh? Your welcome, Scotty. For both times.


Quality site.
No special effects?


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## raymul

alltex said:


> I just figured you out rayBULL.you never worked a day in your life ,Went to a university(probobly a fine one).. you get on this website for pros and say things you read about on the net.Sorry you hate US so much but thats your problem.you should try getting some real experience then come back .


32 years 3rd generation, man and boy.
My mother and sister knows more about the theory than you, ok boring discussions at some meal times..


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## Tim0282

The theory?? The theory of finishing drywall? Explain, please.


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## raymul

Tim0282 said:


> The theory?? The theory of finishing drywall? Explain, please.


I cant keep saying I rest my case..

Ach...

I rest my case


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## Tim0282

The "theory" is, when you are painted you don't see any joints... No matter the method. Yours is as "good" as mine. Mine is as "good" as yours. Makes no difference how you hide the joints, just hide them!


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## Tim0282

You keep "resting your case". You haven't made a case! You seem to be unable to state your "case". So what say you. After forty two years of finishing drywall, I would love to hear an educated man tell me the "theory".


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## Tim0282

Still writing, Raymul?


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## Tim0282

I am open minded and able to "hear" you. I want to learn. In fact I would be honored to come to your place and work with you. Honest!! Would make me the happiest man on earth to go to UK and learn everything I could. About anything, not just drywall! But drywall would be top priority. I know I'm not the best, but I want to be better than I am today. And if you would teach me, I would be your best student.


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## Tim0282

Man, you dropped me like a hot potatoe. Too bad. I am disappointed.


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## raymul

When you overcome the 3000 steps, full bazooka and 10 and 12" in hand then you speak to the master.. (I hate the fact that you yanks are thinking about the kung fu, kill bill guy immediately)
Any way,

Thought you yanks didn't do irony. ;


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## Tim0282

You know Ray, you do make some good points here. I went back and read again from the begining. We as US citizens are arrogant for the most part and out political people spend way too much time and money sticking our noses in others' business. That isn't saying we commoners agree with that. For the most part that is a big reason our taxes are so high. But some of us are craftsmen and have the same pride in our work as you. And we work a lot of hours trying our best to be our best. The same as you, I think.


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## Tim0282

raymul said:


> When you overcome the 3000 steps, full bazooka and 10 and 12" in hand then you speak to the master.. (I hate the fact that you yanks are thinking about the kung fu, kill bill guy immediately)
> Any way,
> 
> Thought you yanks didn't do irony. ;


You can call me stupid if you want, but I have no clue what you are trying to say... 3000 steps? etc. Help me out here.


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## Tim0282

Man, you're talking in circles and making me show my stupidity. Why won't you continue to post??? You can only speculate on what we think and unable to listen to what some of us really think? What? I am not attacking or have no idea what you mean about the kung fu, or kill Bill guy. Again, what???


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## Tim0282

You have made me mad. I am going to bed. Now I won't be able to go to sleep because you cut me off at the knees! You won't explain your words when I can't understand. Why??? I would like to learn and you won't teach me. What's up with that? Again, why? I didn't do anything to you and I am the most humble man you would ever meet. I would like to know a better method. The boxes are not the best, they are fast and if you "help" them, they are good. But it takes a craftsman to help them do a good job. I learned the business going to work with my Dad doing plaster and moving into drywall in the mid sixties. I'm not the greatest plaster man around but, am capable. I can't do the intricate art work that plaster allows. Was never taught. Too bad. Wish I could learn that, too. Afraid I am getting too old to have the opportnity to learn the trade. Would relish the chance to learn other mthods of drywall. But people are too jealous or something to teach. And you, Raymul, I am not sure what to think. I believe you may know something about drywall that I don't know and you won't tell me either. My loss!! What do you gain beyond telling me how terrible I am and how stupid I am? Then just drop the conversation. I am further confused.


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## raymul

Ha Ha!
Good man


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## fr8train

Tim, I think that was his intent with this thread, just to ruffle some feathers.


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## Tim0282

Must be...


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## d-rock

Ray,
sounds like you got the boys a bit upset. I enjoy the entertainment. However I could not leave some things unsaid. (let's forget drywall for a second)
For hundreds of years the Brits have trampled every corner of the earth. In doing so, you have opressed, murdered, enslaved and raped just about every non Caucasian race known to man. By the same token you have civilized the world with your legal and governing traditions. The sad part is, you have become a pale shadow of what you once were. Even your military can't take the heat anymore. You have become the trash bin of liberal idealogy, and soon you will be a Muslim nation. Hats off to Gordon Brown and all your MP's. You've made a mockery of the great Winston Churchill, and that amazing generation that sent tyranny to the ash heap of history.


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## d-rock

Ray,
sounds like you got the boys a bit upset. I enjoy the entertainment. However I could not leave some things unsaid. (let's forget drywall for a second)
For hundreds of years the Brits have trampled every corner of the earth. In doing so, you have opressed, murdered, enslaved and raped just about every non Caucasian race known to man. By the same token you have civilized the world with your legal and governing traditions. The sad part is, you have become a pale shadow of what you once were. Even your military can't take the heat anymore. You have become the trash bin of liberal idealogy, and soon you will be a Muslim nation. Hats off to Gordon Brown and all your MP's. You've made a mockery of the great Winston Churchill, and that amazing generation that sent tyranny to the ash heap of history.


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## alltex

He has no experience only rayBULL.


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## Tim0282

Good point, d-rock!! Don't imagine he'll be back for a while. I think you fired a musket shot to the heart!


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## [email protected]

Let's not forget, just about every modern day conflict is rooted in British stupidity. The partitioning of jeruselum, Persia, the ottoman empire, all have the Brits fingerprints on them. They had some help from Europe in mucking up Africa. And the French get the credit for nam, read French indochina. We pretty much just been cleaning up for them since.....1917. Ask Iceland how well they like the Bank of England right about now.


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## Capt-sheetrock

[email protected] said:


> Let's not forget, just about every modern day conflict is rooted in British stupidity. The partitioning of jeruselum, Persia, the ottoman empire, all have the Brits fingerprints on them. They had some help from Europe in mucking up Africa. And the French get the credit for nam, read French indochina. We pretty much just been cleaning up for them since.....1917. Ask Iceland how well they like the Bank of England right about now.


Don't you mean 1812 ??? They can't drywall any better than they fight,,,,,:whistling2:


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## TonyM

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Come on boys, play nicely please.


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## [email protected]

Well 1812 was us kicking their ass, again. They got over it by 1917, when we pretty much started having to finish their fights for them.


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## McDusty

i work with 2 UK tapers, they are not very good.


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## silverstilts

Must have run off the bias pro from the site eh?


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## Tim0282

Wonder how one spells chicken in UK?? Can't finish a "fight", argument you start? :blink:


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## eastex1963

Damn.....did I just read all that? Glad I've only got to worry about the 14 jobs on my books right now...Guess I'm doing something right. Oh, and one more thing I'm thankful for..............my tools don't talk back to me......Especially in the "Queen's English"...hahaha.


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## miket

If your so superior you can come here do it faster, better and cheaper; make tonnes of money and fix your teeth.


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## thepainterman

Lol in based in the UK but Australian so can I be excused lol.
Anyway there are top notch tradesmen on both sides,yes I have seen both sides.

Yes in the UK there is a standard procedure for training but as ANY tradesmen will tell you it's EXPERIENCE that makes you.
I'm sure in the US the training would be very similar anyway regardless of it's source.

Like the UK you will have people who are crap and people who excel.

I'm a painter and decorator in the UK,I do taping and I have all the kit,bazooka etc,am I as good as most of you guys,I doubt it as taping isn't my main job,kinda like if someone says toyou can you paint the walls as well type of thing.
I'll get the same can't see the joins finish,but it'll take me longer than you guys can do it.That only improves with EXPERIENCE.
I'm trained to use ames equipment but like anything else it's constant use and experience that builds speed and quality.

I do think this thread was a wind up though but if not there's my views.


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## Harry-Potter

Ray, could you pass the grey-poupon old chap?


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## W_James

ray has a point i am considered the best in my region i can not compete with certain peoples cheap prices and **** work i am a true finisher and we are being forced out of buisness by bull****


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## raymul

Maybes a wind up?.... Mmm...
Read the thread from page one then note the theological input from carpentaper, have visions of an axe in one hand and a taping knife in the other, master craftsman no doubt, anyhows, as you folks like to say, the rot sets in. 

Just promise me that you will maintain your lands dignity at the Ryder Cup by wearing short longs or long shorts and expressing your glee: "YEEEEHAAAAA!" "WHOOHOOOOO!!!!"
When a European world class player rims a putt.

Jeez, u folks are sure classy... 

And easily wound up...


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## raymul

*I'm guessing hick retard, bible belt, typing through his one good eye*



carpentaper said:


> you are some kind of pompous ass. go be a little princess artist somewhere people care.


YEEHAWWW! (Do you spell it like you say it?) 

Ahs got me an idea you might have some huntin dogs for sale...


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## raymul

*Exactly*



W_James said:


> ray has a point i am considered the best in my region i can not compete with certain peoples cheap prices and **** work i am a true finisher and we are being forced out of buisness by bull****


Now I should really rest my... nah.. fck it James, this is too easy...


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## Tim0282

Say Ray, What time is it in the UK?


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## raymul

12.15 am.

Dont tell me your reading this with your pancakes.


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## Tim0282

No, it is 7:05 in the evening.


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## raymul

Hey,

Just watched our highest rating chat show, Jonathan Ross. don't know for sure but prob equivalent to jay len...etc.

His question: "where is 1 percent of the us population tonite'?

In Jail.

There are more 17 to 24 year old african americans in jail than at college.

The amazing fact is that us jails produce 100 percent of us army's helmets, flack jackets and field wear. Diminishing down to 21 percent of white goods.

Is three strikes and your out sanctioned slavery...

26 years for stealing four cookies, seems fair at third strike but hey, thats a hell of a return in production.

Christ, or whatever, your country stinks dude, (Your vernacular,probably sums it up best)


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## Tim0282

Yep it is. And those in jail should probably be put out of our misery. Do you have jails? And what percent of your population is in jail? A progressive country like you are, likely has a fair amount of deadbeats, also. And our world just might be a better place if we carried our own guns (equalizers) to take care of business. What do you think?


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## alltex

Ray BULL is still talking in circles with no idea of what or who he speaks of is realy like, exept what he sees on the telly or the net .Its all rayBULL .Its so sad its pittyfull. Next.


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## Tim0282

He does enjoy slamming us, U.S. And he does make some valid points, although the method could be a bit more well... less abrasive. I'm thinking he's a good guy, just likes some action. Not a lot of conversation. He's just a conversation starter. Nothing wrong with that!:thumbup:


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## raymul

alltex said:


> Ray BULL is still talking in circles with no idea of what or who he speaks of is realy like, exept what he sees on the telly or the net .Its all rayBULL .Its so sad its pittyfull. Next.


Hey,

Your incisive wit is too highbrow for this forum dude, stop leaning on our banter.

Go get yourself a chess club, easy man, you don't have to write down your move.


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## raymul

Tim0282 said:


> Yep it is. And those in jail should probably be put out of our misery. Do you have jails? And what percent of your population is in jail? A progressive country like you are, likely has a fair amount of deadbeats, also. And our world just might be a better place if we carried our own guns (equalizers) to take care of business. What do you think?


There in lies the difference, what you consider equalisers, we call persuaders.


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## Tim0282

Well I agree with you about the persuader. Better choice of word.


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## raymul

Suppose its a cultural issue that will never be resolved


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## Tim0282

Your culture has gotten rid of most of the guns in your country, right? (Poorly written, I know, sorry.)


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## raymul

Never had them in local shop therefore a man with a hammer in his hand and in the right frame of mind has persuasion.

Yup!! ahs thinkin u maybes shoul;da put the period outside ya brcket!!


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## Tim0282

Yes, I should have. Bum... I hate making mistakes!


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## Tim0282

Wow Ray, what are you still doing up? Isn't it the middle of the night for you?


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## raymul

d-rock said:


> Ray,
> sounds like you got the boys a bit upset. I enjoy the entertainment. However I could not leave some things unsaid. (let's forget drywall for a second)
> For hundreds of years the Brits have trampled every corner of the earth. In doing so, you have opressed, murdered, enslaved and raped just about every non Caucasian race known to man. By the same token you have civilized the world with your legal and governing traditions. The sad part is, you have become a pale shadow of what you once were. Even your military can't take the heat anymore. You have become the trash bin of liberal idealogy, and soon you will be a Muslim nation. Hats off to Gordon Brown and all your MP's. You've made a mockery of the great Winston Churchill, and that amazing generation that sent tyranny to the ash
> heap of history.


Valid point.
However stoicism is more potent than numbers.


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## raymul

Tim0282 said:


> Wow Ray, what are you still doing up? Isn't it the middle of the night for you?


Today is the opening games of the rugby six nations championships, the major test to establish the true champions of the northern hemisphere leading into the world cup, generally dominated by southern hemisphere teams, leading into the 2011.

I can understand your apathy given your countries folly in declaring american football and baseball world series-? ****, you only play it amongst yourselves
then proclaim 'world champions' fck off, insular fools.

American football crash test dummies, is any part not protected, ****, prob got airbags


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## Wallers

Ray, have you been to the US? because if you have first hand knowledge of what you are saying it sounds like you might have only been to Texas.


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## Wallers

I'm not "sticking up" for the US, the MAIN problem with this country is entitlement. If you break down everything that is wrong here that seems to be the common denominator. My partner and I talk about it all the time! Neither of us can stand it, but honestly, is there a "perfect" place to live??? Nebraska is pretty nice, if you can get over the pompousness, the only problem here is naivety. I am as guilty as the next guy, recently on vacation I was drinking and walking down an alley at 2 am, and in my Nebraska state of mind that is okay! Well, here come 3 guys and a gun. And there goes my money! In their defense, they did NOT take my wallet, so I was able to still fly home 3 days later, and they only got 100 bucks, so it wasn't so bad. I found an atm at a bar and continued drinking. f*** it. They probably thought they were entitled to my money! 

I will agree that yes, we have a slew of problems here, but aren't there problems everywhere?


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## [email protected]

Ray never does get around to being grateful for not having to type in German.


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## d-rock

Ray,
Nice to have you back again. Back for another proper thrashing are we ? Shall we begin with the American Revolution ?


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## smooth muderator

d-rock said:


> Ray,
> sounds like you got the boys a bit upset. I enjoy the entertainment. However I could not leave some things unsaid. (let's forget drywall for a second)
> For hundreds of years the Brits have trampled every corner of the earth. In doing so, you have opressed, murdered, enslaved and raped just about every non Caucasian race known to man. By the same token you have civilized the world with your legal and governing traditions. The sad part is, you have become a pale shadow of what you once were. Even your military can't take the heat anymore. You have become the trash bin of liberal idealogy, and soon you will be a Muslim nation. Hats off to Gordon Brown and all your MP's. You've made a mockery of the great Winston Churchill, and that amazing generation that sent tyranny to the ash heap of history.


What an excellent statement d-rock, So true. Every "British" patriot should view this. It echoes perfectly what we all know


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## alltex

raymul said:


> Hey,
> 
> Your incisive wit is too highbrow for this forum dude, stop leaning on our banter.
> 
> Go get yourself a chess club, easy man, you don't have to write down your move.


Say what? What kind Bull was that?


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## raymul

alltex said:


> Say what? What kind Bull was that?


I don't believe it!

Yep, you guessed it...

I REST MY CASE!


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## raymul

[email protected] said:


> Ray never does get around to being grateful for not having to type in German.


Difference is we would have bothered to learn the language, you yanks would still be a whoopin and a hollerin to the koreans, that was a severe ass whuppin, as you might say.


----------



## [email protected]

Well if you consider we stood against China along with N Korea, we didn't fare too badly. Plus, they didn't follow us home, did they?


----------



## carpentaper

raymul said:


> Maybes a wind up?.... Mmm...
> Read the thread from page one then note the theological input from carpentaper, have visions of an axe in one hand and a taping knife in the other, master craftsman no doubt, anyhows, as you folks like to say, the rot sets in.
> 
> Just promise me that you will maintain your lands dignity at the Ryder Cup by wearing short longs or long shorts and expressing your glee: "YEEEEHAAAAA!" "WHOOHOOOOO!!!!"
> When a European world class player rims a putt.
> 
> Jeez, u folks are sure classy...
> 
> And easily wound up...


 i'm not quite sure what was theological about anything in my post. did you just hear that word somewhere and think i would not know it. i stand by my first statement. you are a pompous ass. hey, what ever happened to that picture of the" internet tough guy". that's who ray is reminding me of.


----------



## alltex

raymul said:


> I don't believe it!
> 
> Yep, you guessed it...
> 
> I REST MY CASE!


 so do i rayBULL


----------



## carpentaper

I found it!


----------



## GYPSUMTRADESMAN

hi all i got a good laugh from this briton i cant understand how this dork mocks american tapers are you part of the royal family buddy here in america i learned this trade hand taping and automatic taping i learned from skilled tapers there are plenty skilled craftmen tapers all around this great nation keep on spreading brick thats what the british are good for. i saw those pictures on the planex festool sander that the britihs were sanding with that system horrible you call this great taping please mr drywall doc


----------



## Tim0282

Wowzer, K! I just figured 'ol Raymul was just messing with us. Trying to make conversation! You think differently?? It sure started a flury of comments. Probably 40 or more____:yes:


----------



## miket

Who does the taping for the Canadian Royal Family?


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

miket said:


> Who does the taping for the Canadian Royal Family?


The Canadian Royal Servants,,, who else ???


----------



## miket

Capt-sheetrock said:


> The Canadian Royal Servants,,, who else ???


I believe they get most of their servants from britain.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

I am truly amazed that americans can get this upset about a brit talking out his arse !!!:whistling2:

I am only impressed by people that can out perform me !!


----------



## jmr

considering our labor market has gone to central americans with less then a year experience i can see where you get that impression.. fortunately there are a lot of craftsman left here that are not being represented properly..

BTW, arn't the brits and the rest of the UK still using all that primitive wet gypsum and plaster ****? could be wrong.


----------



## hwndrywlr

raymul said:


> Today is the opening games of the rugby six nations championships, the major test to establish the true champions of the northern hemisphere leading into the world cup, generally dominated by southern hemisphere teams, leading into the 2011.
> 
> I can understand your apathy given your countries folly in declaring american football and baseball world series-? ****, you only play it amongst yourselves
> then proclaim 'world champions' fck off, insular fools.
> 
> American football crash test dummies, is any part not protected, ****, prob got airbags


And your last Prime Minister was George W's little bitch


----------



## cazna

I did my apprenticeship with an english trained tradesman painter and he always was trying to start little stir ups like this too, i dont understand how he got off on it so much, one thing i noticed is how he wouldnt learn or try anything new but i guess it brings out opinions and views, very interesting thread, i always thought england was bricks and morter by hand and canada/america were drywall by tools but i know f all so my views mean very little.


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

well Ray I know there is some great arkeytexture over your side, but I have to say most of the worlds drywall techs and tools were created in America, come on over to the new world and I can show you some **** that will rot your brain California style, after a visit to some Beverly hills mansions.

Drywall was created out of Chicago.... I worked with many Euro and most of then were so stupid I could not believe the **** they tried to pass, give one to the Brits they could learn and do a good job

Taper come and go, some good some bad


----------



## Workaholic

I have had this conversation with other painters from the UK before. The hang up is not that we suck and they don't it is all the training that is required across the pond. They have to apprentice and go to school to be properly trained so that they can get their papers and of course they are very proud of that, where as we Americans learn a different way. The painters I have had this conversation were not asshats like this guy seems to be though.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

well ,here's the UK drywall talk site http://www.tapingandjointing.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/2-Taping-and-jointing/page5?order=desc
they seem like nice chaps over there,but their site is not as busy as this one.they talk a lot more plaster over there,wood houses (timber as they call it) seems like their not keen to it,and it sounds like everything there is stood up.
just saying,some how I missed reading this thread,wish I was around for this argument.just posting up their site.I know a lot of them come here to this site.I know they get a bit confused with our slang/terms.(so do I some times).
not saying who's better or not,but sometimes when you read stuff on their site ,you go "what ta hell are they talkin about ?"
they do have a excellent section on patents and schematics for tools.
just something to check out:yes:


----------



## JustMe

I'm about 'seeing is believing' on this thread's claim. Till then, I don't take it seriously.

One recent example that makes me wonder how accurate the thread's title is, is in a YouTube example I posted to Michel on another thread, to see how he might compare skill wise when it came to taping using a trowel: 




Michel thought the speed shown humourous, and 2buck claimed the trowel technique used was wrong in a # of ways. I myself have seen drywall trowel coating that's more impressive, after seeing it done by 3 people that come to mind. At least 2 of the 3 were better.

Skim coating an already well filled 1st coated flat definitely isn't hard, as the video was showing being done. But there was one comment on the YouTube video site that compared it - the 'Aussie Way' - as being superior to the UK way: _bloody perfect mate i learnt my trade in the uk but when i got out to perth and leared the aussie way i could see how much better it was,﻿ thats why now im back in the uk i advertise as Australian trained. Spot on mate._

If the Aussie Way in that video doesn't look too impressive, I'm wondering about how much the UK way is even less so - if one can take the above comment as being a decently accurate enough gauge of UK taping ability.

But maybe the UK way is further ahead. But to prove it, show me/us a video or 3 to prove it.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> I'm about 'seeing is believing' on this thread's claim. Till then, I don't take it seriously.
> 
> One recent example that makes me wonder how accurate the thread's title is, is in a YouTube example I posted to Michel on another thread, to see how he might compare skill wise when it came to taping using a trowel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep1TzMa1FKw
> 
> Michel thought the speed shown humourous, and 2buck claimed the trowel technique used was wrong in a # of ways. I myself have seen drywall trowel coating that's more impressive, after seeing it done by 3 people that come to mind. At least 2 of the 3 were better.
> 
> Skim coating an already well filled 1st coated flat definitely isn't hard, as the video was showing being done. But there was one comment on the YouTube video site that compared it - the 'Aussie Way' - as being superior to the UK way: _bloody perfect mate i learnt my trade in the uk but when i got out to perth and leared the aussie way i could see how much better it was,﻿ thats why now im back in the uk i advertise as Australian trained. Spot on mate._
> 
> If the Aussie Way in that video doesn't look too impressive, I'm wondering about how much the UK way is even less so - if one can take the above comment as being a decently accurate enough gauge of UK taping ability.
> 
> But maybe the UK way is further ahead. But to prove it, show me/us a video or 3 to prove it.


 So much of this arguement is technique. I use a hawk&trowel, pan and knife,ames type tools, and Aplha-techs.

What all that means, is IF THE WALL IS FLAT AT THE END,,, its right.

Don't much matter how you get there,,,, what matters is IF you get there.


----------



## nz drywaller

looks like this puller is just winding everyone up,end this thread and let him get back to his ice cave:thumbup:


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> So much of this arguement is technique. I use a hawk&trowel, pan and knife,ames type tools, and Aplha-techs.


For me, it goes beyond the tools used for technique, to also strategy - having everything come together at the same time, in a right way for a situation, so nothing negatively affects the final sanding, or causes something to lag behind and holds up that final sanding - such as the butt joints being left behind on the video. At least they seem so to me. Unless he did it only because he was using the wall to demo his coating of flats ability. Or unless he's maybe planning on coating that flat some more.



Capt-sheetrock said:


> What all that means, is IF THE WALL IS FLAT AT THE END,,, its right.


Maybe it's the angle &/or lighting, but his 1st already dry coat on the flat in the video looks higher that what I'd want to 2nd coat on to get things 'flat'. I wouldn't want to have to go wider than necessary because of that 1st coat's height, to get a flat look. I don't like to/won't sand back into that 1st coat unless it's necessary, in part because of the ridging it can cause - which then usually means an added 3rd, often wider coat to me, to get the quality look I'm looking for.

To prevent that, right now I 'shadow' sand flats on the 1st coat - taking it back till the edges of the board bevels are starting to show through, but not sanding right down to them.
If the board isn't even, I take it back till the high side is starting to show through.

But if you think you have a better way of doing it to get things 'flat'/flat looking for my particular situation, I'm all ears.



Capt-sheetrock said:


> Don't much matter how you get there,,,, what matters is IF you get there.


I'm a little confused on this one. But maybe you're meaning something different than how it reads to me. Right now I'm thinking it does matter how you get there - acceptable results in the quickest, most efficient manner (in a way that doesn't wear on your body more than really necessary) is what I shoot for.


----------



## betterdrywall

Capt-sheetrock said:


> So much of this arguement is technique. I use a hawk&trowel, pan and knife,ames type tools, and Aplha-techs.
> 
> What all that means, is IF THE WALL IS FLAT AT THE END,,, its right.
> 
> Don't much matter how you get there,,,, what matters is IF you get there.


 That video wore me out,, I think that is the fast way of getting arthritis,,,
A good quality box coater,, is there to help with easy of coating,, and to provide a much finer finish,, when set and operated correctly,,


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Gee guys,,, when I was talking about the "video", I was talking about the roller one, not the azzuie with the trowel.

But since you brought it up,,, like I said, it don't matter how you get there, just so you get there. Sure it will take 4 times longer, but he will get there. Which means he is making 4 times less money, just cause he is in love with his technique. 

Show me a better tool, and I'll put my old ones in the shed tomarrow, I'm not in love with the past.

BTW, he holds his trowel like I do,,, but around here, they hold em upside down, so even tho its obvious he knows how to use a trowel, he would be run off the job around here, cause he was holding his trowel upside down (even tho its right side up). Now you got to admit that kind of "we know, but you don't know" BS is always a real stumbling block for innovation.


----------



## Tim0282

He must not know how to use the other side of the trowel. Surely you use both sides.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Tim0282 said:


> He must not know how to use the other side of the trowel. Surely you use both sides.


 I get it,,,,,, LOL:thumbsup:


----------



## Tim0282

:sneaky2: I knew you would!


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Now you got to admit that kind of "we know, but you don't know" BS is always a real stumbling block for innovation.


The real innovation killer saying for most things is probably "That's the same as ....".

Which is often based on _arrogance_ and _ignorance_ - the 2 main sources for most thinking errors.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> The real innovation killer saying for most things is probably "That's the same as ....".
> 
> Which is often based on _arrogance_ and _ignorance_ - the 2 main sources for most thinking errors.


We have another saying in the deep south,,,, "Hey ya'll watch this"


Never turns out good,,,lol


----------



## moore

raymul said:


> Typical u.s arrogant rsoles no wonder the world hates you. Here, why dont you 'nuke me' cause you dont like what I have to say. Should have guessed it would have turned into an arguement with you ingrates.
> Our systems and tradesmen are far superior and theres an end to it!


I like , the getting paid before the sweat dries . that's good stuff! the rest is bulls##t!!!


----------



## Drywall_King

obviousley this guy's head is soo far up his ass he doesnt know how good and profesional North american drywall's (Plasterers) are... iv watched my dad as a little boy do the biggest nicest houses in the country (canada) and how much respect the community gives us... houses hear are huge and full of complex add's.. your houses are all brick and i bet you guys have more wallpaper then anyone.. im working in australia now for a british cuple now and i asked him if there was much drwall in Uk and he said all the old houses are wood and wallpaper walls... how much skill does it take to put on wallpaper.. all the greatest taping tools come from canada and US.. NOT UK.. so when you hear the pop of your head comming out of your ass youll realize how stupid you made yourself look on a professional Drywall forum..


----------



## McDusty

i've taped in Russia, New Zealand & am employed by 2 ex-british plasters.... they are all clueless.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

McDusty said:


> i've taped in Russia, New Zealand & am employed by 2 ex-british plasters.... they are all clueless.


YOUR saying cazna SUCKS then


----------



## McDusty

By NZ standards, i have no doubt he's king of heap. And the fact that he's on this board, shows he cares. There are about 4 others on this board from NZ... the other 16,401 tapers there are clueless. What the heck kind of term is 'Gib-Stopping' anyway. what does that even mean!? I saw a guy rolling mud into his corners with a wool roller then flushing them. He did whole houses this way. Dip, roll, dip, roll. hilarious. 


I still can't get over how few screws they use to fasten board. It was glorious. You don't use insulation so there is no vapor barrier, hence everything is glued. Door & window trim already installed & no heat ever... not glorious.


----------



## Kiwiman

McDusty said:


> By NZ standards, i have no doubt he's king of heap. And the fact that he's on this board, shows he cares. There are about 4 others on this board from NZ... the other 16,401 tapers there are clueless. What the heck kind of term is 'Gib-Stopping' anyway. what does that even mean!? I saw a guy rolling mud into his corners with a wool roller then flushing them. He did whole houses this way. Dip, roll, dip, roll. hilarious.
> 
> 
> I still can't get over how few screws they use to fasten board. It was glorious. You don't use insulation so there is no vapor barrier, hence everything is glued. Door & window trim already installed & no heat ever... not glorious.


Sounds like you got in with the fly-by-night and bang them out on a budget type guy's. There's definitely some guy's out there with some funny ways of doing things, around these parts the ones that care are the ones that don't employ more than one worker, any more than that and the quality starts going down hill...it's all speed and money (it creates plenty of work for us).
Gib-stopping - The brand name of our main source of drywall here is called gibboard (G is pronounced as a J...sounds like "Jibboard"), I think you guy's refer to it as "stopping" a hole as well? (not sure on that) so thats where the term gib-stopping comes from, I'm a Gib-stopper or plasterer, the guy's hanging the board are Gib-Fixers or Gibbers or gibee's.
We do use insulation here but there's no need for a plastic barrier, might be because our temperature extremes don't warrant it. I like the idea of more glue and less screws in the center of the sheets (walls only) coz there's less chance of screws popping later (we use crap timber here), personally if it were my house I would have all glue and one scew on each stud center sheet so it doesn't bow away from the glue, and screws atleast 300mm around the perimeter, the problem now is the minimum insulation thickness has increased and the board bulges out between studs on interior walls.


----------



## smisner50s

If the board is bowing outward between the studs do to insulation..than there is to much r value insulation for the thickness of the wall.we use blown in insulation than they shave the wall flush clean corners..and if more of a r value is spec out for a what ever reason all they do is up the output pressure and pack it more dense..


----------



## Kiwiman

smisner50s said:


> If the board is bowing outward between the studs do to insulation..than there is to much r value insulation for the thickness of the wall.we use blown in insulation than they shave the wall flush clean corners..and if more of a r value is spec out for a what ever reason all they do is up the output pressure and pack it more dense..


Thats the problem when our building codes change, they don't consider flow on effects of thicker insulation. The main problem is the wall between the house and the garage which is treated as an exterior wall and you have to stick to code for R value, the exterior walls on the rest of the homes don't have the pressure put on the drywall because it bulges the other way forcing the building wrap out towards the bricks...which stuffs up the minimum code cavity between the wall and the brick. I can't speak for the rest of the country but round here the only insulation used is pink batts, I've only heard of a blown type insulation in the past on existing older homes, I have heard of spray foam being used on some commercial sheds here for holding vegetables, even then they had to import the equipment from the states, apparently they had big problems with getting it to work right and $10k later and technicians flown into the country... it had a loose earth cable .


----------



## cazna

Thanks for that Mc Dusty, Shame you didnt head up my way when you where in nz and took up my offer for a catch up, It would have been great to meet an overseas taper :thumbsup:

Good explaination kiwiman, That sums it up, I too would cut a peice of board say 150mm square and screw through this into the studs to hold the board in if it were my house, Then remove later. As i have posted pics before the boards held out from the wall with just glue.

The thick insulation does bulge out the wallboard seams and the building wrap into the cavaty, Best to ply the exterior walls for bracing, this does away with the crap interior braceline, I see steel framed homes have ESI board on the outside, Its an insulation board that works with the batts, Wonder if its bracing as well, Prob is,

Hey everyone else, Hows the steel framed houses, They are just starting to come in here, Im building sometime and thinking of steel frame, Any problems, Someone said they creak a bit??


----------



## smisner50s

I have framed up some big steel stud building for iup..there is allways pros and cons..one of the biggest is the steel studs condisating and a few months later and the stud leave a jailhouse Effect look on interrior perrimiter wall.thats because the stud face is not insulated..we have started to use exterrior gypsom and dow 1inch foam board on the exterrior ..works.. Plus side nice stright wall for kitchens counter tops bathrooms ect..:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Finisherguy

*without us u wouldnt exsist*

*British–American relations* encompass many complex relations over the span of four centuries, beginning in 1607 with England's first permanent colony in North America called Jamestown, to the present day, between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America.
The United States is bound to Britain by shared history, a common language and legal system, culture, and kindred, ancestral lines in British Americans which can be traced back hundreds of years.
Through times of war and rebellion, peace and estrangement, as well as becoming friends and allies, Britain and the United States cemented these deeply rooted links during World War II into what is known as the "Special Relationship", still described by a leading commentator as "the key trans-Atlantic alliance",[1] which the U.S. Senate Chair on European Affairs acknowledged in 2010 as "one of the cornerstones of stability around the world."[2]
Today, the relationship with the United States represents the "most important bilateral partnership" in current British foreign policy [3] while United States foreign policy affirms its relationship with the United Kingdom as one of its most important enduring bilateral relationships,[4][5] as evidenced in aligned political affairs, mutual cooperation in the areas of trade, commerce, finance, technology, academics, as well as the arts and sciences; the sharing of government and military intelligence, and joint combat operations and peacekeeping missions carried out between the United States Armed Forces and the British Armed Forces. The U.S. President is always the first world leader to welcome a new British Prime Minister into office and the same applies from the British Prime Minister towards a new President. Britain has always been the biggest foreign investor in the USA and vice versa.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

that was a nice post finisherguy......now can you explain to us why everyone is always pissed with the french


----------



## Ozzie

miket said:


> if your so superior you can come here do it faster, better and cheaper; make tonnes of money *and fix your teeth*.


:d:d:d


----------



## sean B

raymul said:


> I stumbled across this forum and on reading, am amazed at the lack of technical knowledge and craftsmanship on your shores.
> 
> It seems ironic that Ames brothers were americans?...
> 
> I have watched many a video and discussions related to u.s taping and it is bewildering, I can only think you have a lot of butchers and bakers trying to make it in the industry given the minimal theory involved.
> 
> Take a look at British technique and application if you want to excel...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Ray


LOL now ive heard it all. have you guys over there mastered the technique of defending yourself yet?.


----------



## stan

i am proud of my english heretige but come on !!!! american tapers run circles around you limey bastards. besides the fact that you are lazy and want to take a break every 15 min and the only reason you take home a paycheck is the govt is subsidising the job your on. welcome to the real world


----------



## D's

Bazooka-Joe said:


> well Ray I know there is some great arkeytexture over your side, but I have to say most of the worlds drywall techs and tools were created in America, come on over to the new world and I can show you some **** that will rot your brain California style, after a visit to some Beverly hills mansions.
> 
> Drywall was created out of Chicago.... I worked with many Euro and most of then were so stupid I could not believe the **** they tried to pass, give one to the Brits they could learn and do a good job
> 
> Taper come and go, some good some bad


:thumbup:


----------



## endo_alley

raymul said:


> I stumbled across this forum and on reading, am amazed at the lack of technical knowledge and craftsmanship on your shores.
> 
> It seems ironic that Ames brothers were americans?...
> 
> I have watched many a video and discussions related to u.s taping and it is bewildering, I can only think you have a lot of butchers and bakers trying to make it in the industry given the minimal theory involved.
> 
> Take a look at British technique and application if you want to excel...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Ray


 What specifically do you do differently? My guess is that if you came out here to western Colorado where a lot of the movie stars and ceo's of mega corporations have their 20,000 sf mountain retreats, you might find our wall finishes rival anything you have. But maybe not. It would certainly be nice to have specifics.


----------



## endo_alley

Holy smokes Raymul, you seem to have hit a sore spot with a lot of people. When the dust settles, I would enjoy a civilized conversation about your technique. I don't think that will happen soon, as there seem to be a lot of negative remarks. I don't have a lot of ego about drywalling and plastering. After all, the best drywaller in the world is still just a drywaller. But if you have some pearls of drywall wisdom and don't mind enlightening us across the pond, it would be appreciated.


----------



## Shelwyn

Some guy posted a troll 5 years ago and hasn't been back since 2010. You guys still on about this haha.


----------



## endo_alley

Shelwyn said:


> Some guy posted a troll 5 years ago and hasn't been back since 2010. You guys still on about this haha.


Darn I thought there was someone out there in Europe with the ultimate dry walling system to do one coat level 5 finishing or something. So maybe it isn't true? Maybe he's a charlatan?


----------



## eazyrizla

hot mud sand sand sand!


----------



## krem

ok, im from australia and i feel the need to say my piece, 
ray, altho your point seems a little lost, i can help out a little, on both sides.
when i seen a few clips on youtube and read how ppl in the US of A do things, i was a little bit of the same opinion as you, why would they do **** like that, its totally different to how we do it here, but thats not to say they are **** tradesmen just because they do things different, heck, ive worked for a few different guys and they all do things different, 1 does everything by hand, has a great rep and has for over 40yrs, the next guy did most things my boxes, was a **** tradesman and when the time came to do externals or anything by hand, they were disgraceful, only in it for the $$$$$, every job had callbacks and i was embarrased to wear their work shirts!! another guy begged me to come work for him and apart from being the quickest hangers ive ever seen (700m2 hung in 6hrs between 3 guys!!) and also being great guys, they had no pride wat so ever.
the last guy i worked with, been doing it for last 40yrs, never had papers to say he was qualified, and has been the best work ive ever seen, ever!!
over the last 7yrs of being a labourer, i have picked up the best points of all the guys ive worked for and altho i have no trade papers, im glad to say that 2 of the builders i do work for are 2 of the best and fussiest builders around, they never hassle me on price, just want good quality work and are prepared to pay for it!!
my point here is, just cause you have papers, dont make you a good tradesperson, you can teach a person to do a good job, but you cant teach them to take pride in what they do!!
on the other side of yanks being arrogant and think they are better than every1 else, well, some are, but we also have arrogant ppl here in aus, and i bet all 3 of your balls, you do in your part too!!
America has always been a lets do it "louder, faster, better" type of place, lets take their version of an english wheel for example (metal shaping), the power hammer, man, its loud, faster, but not really better than an english wheel, yanks think it is, poms dont think so, so wat, who cares!!
ray, you guys stand all your wall sheet up, man, stuff that, thats a pain in the ass, to me thats just all messed up, is it to stop your joints from bulging?? we have no issues here with ours, so maybe its your practises that are flawed, 
as some 1 has already said, if the joints are flat and cant be seen after paint, they dont crack or shrink back, then its a job well done!!
there are dodgy tradesmen in every corner of the globe, if your so worried about them, then the joke is on you as a good tradesman will always prevail over a dodgy 1!!
krem


----------



## VANMAN

krem said:


> ok, im from australia and i feel the need to say my piece,
> ray, altho your point seems a little lost, i can help out a little, on both sides.
> when i seen a few clips on youtube and read how ppl in the US of A do things, i was a little bit of the same opinion as you, why would they do **** like that, its totally different to how we do it here, but thats not to say they are **** tradesmen just because they do things different, heck, ive worked for a few different guys and they all do things different, 1 does everything by hand, has a great rep and has for over 40yrs, the next guy did most things my boxes, was a **** tradesman and when the time came to do externals or anything by hand, they were disgraceful, only in it for the $$$$$, every job had callbacks and i was embarrased to wear their work shirts!! another guy begged me to come work for him and apart from being the quickest hangers ive ever seen (700m2 hung in 6hrs between 3 guys!!) and also being great guys, they had no pride wat so ever.
> the last guy i worked with, been doing it for last 40yrs, never had papers to say he was qualified, and has been the best work ive ever seen, ever!!
> over the last 7yrs of being a labourer, i have picked up the best points of all the guys ive worked for and altho i have no trade papers, im glad to say that 2 of the builders i do work for are 2 of the best and fussiest builders around, they never hassle me on price, just want good quality work and are prepared to pay for it!!
> my point here is, just cause you have papers, dont make you a good tradesperson, you can teach a person to do a good job, but you cant teach them to take pride in what they do!!
> on the other side of yanks being arrogant and think they are better than every1 else, well, some are, but we also have arrogant ppl here in aus, and i bet all 3 of your balls, you do in your part too!!
> America has always been a lets do it "louder, faster, better" type of place, lets take their version of an english wheel for example (metal shaping), the power hammer, man, its loud, faster, but not really better than an english wheel, yanks think it is, poms dont think so, so wat, who cares!!
> ray, you guys stand all your wall sheet up, man, stuff that, thats a pain in the ass, to me thats just all messed up, is it to stop your joints from bulging?? we have no issues here with ours, so maybe its your practises that are flawed,
> as some 1 has already said, if the joints are flat and cant be seen after paint, they dont crack or shrink back, then its a job well done!!
> there are dodgy tradesmen in every corner of the globe, if your so worried about them, then the joke is on you as a good tradesman will always prevail over a dodgy 1!!
> krem


F*CK him Krem the boy is a fud!!:thumbsup:
Womans part for u guys!!


----------



## embella plaster

I stopped reading this after this dudes first post what an absolute tool he sounds like an asss hair


----------



## VANMAN

Another thing is my mud comes all the way from USA as these bunch of dip sh*ts in the UK or Europe cant get jack sh*t right!!:whistling2:
Tools r made in USA or OZ not in Europe! We r left to import everything that's why this dip sh*t thinks USA is behind Europe


----------



## Shelwyn

VANMAN said:


> Another thing is my mud comes all the way from USA as these bunch of dip sh*ts in the UK or Europe cant get jack sh*t right!!:whistling2:
> Tools r made in USA or OZ not in Europe! We r left to import everything that's why this dip sh*t thinks USA is behind Europe


heh this thread is so old. The guy posted some time in 2012 or some crap made like 5 posts and left hahah.


----------



## embella plaster

Cause he is a piece of shhhhhyt


----------



## embella plaster

Would love to tape in the states


----------



## Atomicdrywall

Drywall in the uk is a joke, this guy is a moron.


----------



## Krsw85

Haha, I have to agree with you a bit. But then I do a lot of things the butchers frown on... like not smacking a dead screw with a hammet or even the hammered end of my pan knife. I peal butt joints, I fix everything, never run over a blow out, always, always do it by hand, because it is the highest quality way to do it. I do all this and still coat 100 sheets a day, and my jobs last upwards of 20 years. High end New England tapers are hard to beat anywhere. Ive done more multi million dollar houses than you can count on your apendages.


----------



## krafty

True I am and know top notch finishers in n.e. but also İn v.a. and cali just a matter of caring what you put out there. Know ALOT of hacks too lol.I fix their garbage.

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


----------



## Krsw85

Haha glad Im not alone, need all the help I can get cleaning up the butched jobs...lol


----------



## endo_alley

Krsw85 said:


> Haha, I have to agree with you a bit. But then I do a lot of things the butchers frown on... like not smacking a dead screw with a hammet or even the hammered end of my pan knife. I peal butt joints, I fix everything, never run over a blow out, always, always do it by hand, because it is the highest quality way to do it. I do all this and still coat 100 sheets a day, and my jobs last upwards of 20 years. High end New England tapers are hard to beat anywhere. Ive done more multi million dollar houses than you can count on your apendages.


We like to give the builder or home owner the option of us sending a crew through the house and shimming all ceilings and walls dead straight and dead flat before hanging. Power plane where necessary. It does cost some money. But makes for a great drywall job. So many people refuse to pay for this, but then complain if a wall isn't perfectly straight. Either way, we always shim our butt joints recessed, or use butt boards. Even that costs some money. Nobody seems to want to pay for that level of quality anymore.


----------



## cazna

Krsw85 said:


> always, always do it by hand, because it is the highest quality way to do it.


Lol.


----------



## Krsw85

Haha, keep playing with your over diluted compound, your stupid guns, your paper machete patches with no backer, keep putting speed before quality, I've seen how fast and how great these mud soup angles are, if theirs any gap it shrinks back half inch. Bull shyt.... I don't mind getting paid to fix your bull shyt..... keep taping with a hammer dummies, I love making 60 to 80 dollars an hour for patches.


----------



## Krsw85

endo_alley said:


> Krsw85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, I have to agree with you a bit. But then I do a lot of things the butchers frown on... like not smacking a dead screw with a hammet or even the hammered end of my pan knife. I peal butt joints, I fix everything, never run over a blow out, always, always do it by hand, because it is the highest quality way to do it. I do all this and still coat 100 sheets a day, and my jobs last upwards of 20 years. High end New England tapers are hard to beat anywhere. Ive done more multi million dollar houses than you can count on your apendages.
> 
> 
> 
> We like to give the builder or home owner the option of us sending a crew through the house and shimming all ceilings and walls dead straight and dead flat before hanging. Power plane where necessary. It does cost some money. But makes for a great drywall job. So many people refuse to pay for this, but then complain if a wall isn't perfectly straight. Either way, we always shim our butt joints recessed, or use butt boards. Even that costs some money. Nobody seems to want to pay for that level of quality anymore.
Click to expand...

I dont mind imperfect butts and framing, I just create the illusion that its flat.... If I'm hanging it yea, shim a bad stud, cut the crooked and leave a 1/4 or less gap.... other than that, behind other hangers, Im an illusion artist. A lot of understanding natural light and where it shows the most. Btw I think it would be a treat to tape behind you.


----------



## endo_alley

Krsw85 said:


> I dont mind imperfect butts and framing, I just create the illusion that its flat.... If I'm hanging it yea, shim a bad stud, cut the crooked and leave a 1/4 or less gap.... other than that, behind other hangers, Im an illusion artist. A lot of understanding natural light and where it shows the most. Btw I think it would be a treat to tape behind you.


If a joint isn't flat, typically it shows.


----------



## moore

If we are so far behind.. 

Why ya'll got no sheets longer than 8 ft ?:blink:


----------



## cazna

Krsw85 said:


> Haha, keep playing with your over diluted compound, your stupid guns, your paper machete patches with no backer, keep putting speed before quality, I've seen how fast and how great these mud soup angles are, if theirs any gap it shrinks back half inch. Bull shyt.... I don't mind getting paid to fix your bull shyt..... keep taping with a hammer dummies, I love making 60 to 80 dollars an hour for patches.


Dude, If you keep this up your ears will fill with sand.........Hang on, They already are.

You come on here, Bomb the hell out of the place with posts, Least you can do have an open mind, Hell you might even actually learn something if you were actually inviting to engage in a conversation. You are what I was ten years ago, And that's a dumb ar$e trowel grunter. Life could be a lot easier and a lot more fun if you pulled you head out but I get the feeling its well stuck, All the best buddy :thumbsup:


----------



## cazna

....


----------



## thefinisher

Krsw85 said:


> Haha, I have to agree with you a bit. But then I do a lot of things the butchers frown on... like not smacking a dead screw with a hammet or even the hammered end of my pan knife. I peal butt joints, I fix everything, never run over a blow out, always, always do it by hand, because it is the highest quality way to do it. I do all this and still coat 100 sheets a day, and my jobs last upwards of 20 years. High end New England tapers are hard to beat anywhere. Ive done more multi million dollar houses than you can count on your apendages.


Some of the best work I ever seen was done with tools, And I grew up hand finishing! I don't disagree that hand finishing produces excellent results but it too has its faults and limits. We pretty much do a million dollar home every week... Gotta learn to embrace new techniques and tools. They can benefit you if you let them.


----------



## Kiwiman

Not another friggin stirrer


----------



## endo_alley

thefinisher said:


> Some of the best work I ever seen was done with tools, And I grew up hand finishing! I don't disagree that hand finishing produces excellent results but it too has its faults and limits. We pretty much do a million dollar home every week... Gotta learn to embrace new techniques and tools. They can benefit you if you let them.



Best to be proficient at both.


----------



## cazna

endo_alley said:


> Best to be proficient at both.


Exactly. Then you can make comments about which is best. Taping is a combo of both anyway. Do both then you say which is best but before you can then refer to my previous pics.


----------



## fr8train

I know of a guy who once said " I can hand tape faster than a auto taper" what he really meant was that he can hand tape faster than he could run a taper at that time. PA Rocker knows him too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## endo_alley

fr8train said:


> I know of a guy who once said " I can hand tape faster than a auto taper" what he really meant was that he can hand tape faster than he could run a taper at that time. PA Rocker knows him too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've met some remarkable hand tapers. I think a good hand taper may be faster on scaffold work. Also, may don't V and prefill butt joints and gaps with setting mud. Pick up a little time there.


----------



## MrWillys

Our gunmen could go home after 10 rolls and they wiped down themselves. Very few worked 8 hrs. Some could do it in 6. I should also add that the mud back then was powder and no electricity.


----------



## moore

endo_alley said:


> I've met some remarkable hand tapers. I think a good hand taper may be faster on scaffold work. Also, may don't V and prefill butt joints and gaps with setting mud. Pick up a little time there.


I v butts .. You got too with L/W Boards ! Anyone who isn't is asking for trouble . :yes:


----------



## cazna

Old job, But no way I would have kept up on my own hand bombing, And as for stupid gun thin mud and shrunk corners, Prefill first, Or double tape the gaps with the stupid gun, Its not something I have made a habit of but it works ok.


----------



## Krsw85

cazna said:


> Old job, But no way I would have kept up on my own hand bombing, And as for stupid gun thin mud and shrunk corners, Prefill first, Or double tape the gaps with the stupid gun, Its not something I have made a habit of but it works ok.


Its not that I dont think it can work... But most that use them have zero patience and lottle knoweledge, I guess that unless you do the things I was talking about then its not really directed toward you. However seeming You think my head is in the sand, it kind of was directes toward you. I learn a lot from a lot of people, but as soon as I see a hammer come out for first coat screws, Im done listening to a damn thing you have to say.... tube systems are all about speed, and there are way too many people out there not doing a nice job because all the care about is money.... a broken sheet, run it over, hole in the wall, cover it up paper machete with a banjo, missed screw smash it with a hammer or the end of your knife.... If I caught some one doing this sort of thing on my jobs, its out the door you go. Your mud should never be as loose as what I see many times.... there is a threshold where you are degrading the bond enough that everything you apply might as well be trash.


----------



## Krsw85

moore said:


> endo_alley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've met some remarkable hand tapers. I think a good hand taper may be faster on scaffold work. Also, may don't V and prefill butt joints and gaps with setting mud. Pick up a little time there.
> 
> 
> 
> I v butts .. You got too with L/W Boards ! Anyone who isn't is asking for trouble .
Click to expand...

I don't V butts, If Im asked too working with somebody else Im very careful not to create an incline plane out of the edges of the butts.... A triangular fill piece, installed at 65° F will fail if it gets too warm in the home.... I peel the butts, get rid of any loose paper, prefill if necessary. Which is rare on butts behind any sort of professional hanger. Any broken corners get removed and rescrewed as close as possible to the damage. I've found some pretty fast methods for accomplishing the avove stated..... If the hanging is nice.... I've done a 180 sheet house in 5 days by myself, every thing square box 8 foot tops except a few vaulted ceilings upstairs and the stairwell with a high ceiling.


----------



## Krsw85

Don't know where your from, but its no where near me. Whats up with the brown board? Stacked butt joints? On a ceiling? Spotted screws on the whole job? Lol I know I can do screws faster lol.


----------



## Krsw85

fr8train said:


> I know of a guy who once said " I can hand tape faster than a auto taper" what he really meant was that he can hand tape faster than he could run a taper at that time. PA Rocker knows him too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im not saying Im faster, what I am saying is im about as good as it gets at what I do.... if you came on some of the jobs Ive been on.... 10 to 13 million dollar homes, I wouldnt have to kick you off the job, the contractor would.....


----------



## MrWillys

MrWillys said:


> Our gunmen could go home after 10 rolls and they wiped down themselves. Very few worked 8 hrs. Some could do it in 6. I should also add that the mud back then was powder and no electricity.





Krsw85 said:


> Im not saying Im faster, what I am saying is im about as good as it gets at what I do.... if you came on some of the jobs Ive been on.... 10 to 13 million dollar homes, I wouldnt have to kick you off the job, the contractor would.....


Hola?


----------



## Aussiecontractor

Krsw85 said:


> Im not saying Im faster, what I am saying is im about as good as it gets at what I do.... if you came on some of the jobs Ive been on.... 10 to 13 million dollar homes, I wouldnt have to kick you off the job, the contractor would.....




Oh man your my hero, 10 to 13 mill is that all 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MrWillys

Aussiecontractor said:


> Oh man your my hero, 10 to 13 mill is that all
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I was thinking the same thing. Call me when you've been on the same job for 3 years.


----------



## endo_alley

moore said:


> I v butts .. You got too with L/W Boards ! Anyone who isn't is asking for trouble . :yes:


We V all butt joints and cut out any loose paper along factory edges. Prefill all joints and gaps with setting compound. Then bazooka.


----------



## endo_alley

MrWillys said:


> Our gunmen could go home after 10 rolls and they wiped down themselves. Very few worked 8 hrs. Some could do it in 6. I should also add that the mud back then was powder and no electricity.


Powdered mud and no electricity? Back in the 1970's we used powdered Georgia Pacific bag mud. Mix it the afternoon before so the lumps would come out the next morning. After a couple of days in the bucket it smelled like rotten milk. Pushed hard through a tube and was harder still to wipe down. Edged like crazy. Hard to sand. I wouldn't wish that stuff on anybody. And we even had electricity. If we had to mix ours with a potato masher to boot I would have quit and gone back to college.


----------



## MrWillys

endo_alley said:


> Powdered mud and no electricity? Back in the 1970's we used powdered Georgia Pacific bag mud. Mix it the afternoon before so the lumps would come out the next morning. After a couple of days in the bucket it smelled like rotten milk. Pushed hard through a tube and was harder still to wipe down. Edged like crazy. Hard to sand. I wouldn't wish that stuff on anybody. And we even had electricity. If we had to mix ours with a potato masher to boot I would have quit and gone back to college.


Ours was called Rich-Tex and they would mix multiple buckets in the morning. Our topping was premixed but not taping. It was also used for skip trowel texture. I added 800 sq ft to my home in 1988 and remember using powder to texture it myself. The builder we worked for had generators for the Carpenters but no one else. This company is still building a union home today.

My brother went from driving the scrape truck to being a gunman.


----------



## cazna

Krsw85 said:


> Don't know where your from, but its no where near me. Whats up with the brown board? Stacked butt joints? On a ceiling? Spotted screws on the whole job? Lol I know I can do screws faster lol.


If your talking to me the brown board is fire rated double layered, The stacked butts on the wall are just to make it easier for me, The layer underneath is not that way and those ceiling butts are expansion joints, Its a 20m ceiling so one that big will crack so we added 3 expansion joins, It was done off a scissor lift so easier to hand spot as a I went.

If you read my location you might see where I am.

Your remind me of a guy who had a web page [email protected] on how great he was, It was awesome, Cant remember the link, Hopefully someone else does, I think he was invited to join here but didn't.

For someone who knows and mouths off so much you know very little.


----------



## gopherstateguy

Krsw85 said:


> Don't know where your from, but its no where near me. Whats up with the brown board? Stacked butt joints? On a ceiling? Spotted screws on the whole job? Lol I know I can do screws faster lol.


Those perpendicular ceiling joints look like expansion joints to me.


----------



## cazna

gopherstateguy said:


> Those perpendicular ceiling joints look like expansion joints to me.


They are. Well done.


----------



## gopherstateguy

MrWillys said:


> Our gunmen could go home after 10 rolls and they wiped down themselves. Very few worked 8 hrs. Some could do it in 6. I should also add that the mud back then was powder and no electricity.


My partner at work was strictly a gun man for at least 20 years. He always manually stomped all of his taping mud(USG green). Box flaps up, bag over flaps, dump in water, and stomp. It is actually pretty entertaining to watch him to try to mix in an actual bucket with a drill! For him it was easier(multiple sites, unreliable power). I know you said your brother was a gun man. I am assuming 500' rolls. Commercial or residential?


----------



## endo_alley

gopherstateguy said:


> My partner at work was strictly a gun man for at least 20 years. He always manually stomped all of his taping mud(USG green). Box flaps up, bag over flaps, dump in water, and stomp. It is actually pretty entertaining to watch him to try to mix in an actual bucket with a drill! For him it was easier(multiple sites, unreliable power). I know you said your brother was a gun man. I am assuming 500' rolls. Commercial or residential?


The stuff mentioned earlier was all purpose compound mixed from a bag of dry powder. Lumpy as hell even with a mixer. You had to let it soak in and then remix a few hours later. But the bag stuff was only about 80 cents to a dollar a bag back then. And premixed box mud was over $2.00 per box. The guy I worked for bought the cheap stuff. We heard of other drywall contractors who bought their finishers the premix stuff. We heard stories of how well the good stuff went through a banjo or bazooka. But never got to use it till into the eighties.


----------



## gopherstateguy

endo_alley said:


> The stuff mentioned earlier was all purpose compound mixed from a bag of dry powder. Lumpy as hell even with a mixer. You had to let it soak in and then remix a few hours later. But the bag stuff was only about 80 cents to a dollar a bag back then. And premixed box mud was over $2.00 per box. The guy I worked for bought the cheap stuff. We heard of other drywall contractors who bought their finishers the premix stuff. We heard stories of how well the good stuff went through a banjo or bazooka. But never got to use it till into the eighties.


I get it. All the guys I learned from had to use bag mud. The point is that this guy preferred to stomp his mud when he could have used powered mixing gear(sometimes).


----------



## MrWillys

gopherstateguy said:


> My partner at work was strictly a gun man for at least 20 years. He always manually stomped all of his taping mud(USG green). Box flaps up, bag over flaps, dump in water, and stomp. It is actually pretty entertaining to watch him to try to mix in an actual bucket with a drill! For him it was easier(multiple sites, unreliable power). I know you said your brother was a gun man. I am assuming 500' rolls. Commercial or residential?


Yes, 500' rolls and it was residential. We had fairly crackerbox homes back then too. We were strictly residential until 1980. We got paid piecework in homes and hourly in commercial. My brother only worked about 5 years as a taper and then became a carpenter, then superintendent and now vice president of a pretty big firm.
I got to hang 12 condo's in 2008 and was the last time I got to drive nails. Take that back, in 2010 I volunteered for a wood job. Those young kids never saw anyone nail on metal so fast.


----------



## gopherstateguy

Stringing and wiping a case for residential(8' up w/ 1 cathedral and 9' main would probably take me 9 hours. Your guys were moving!


----------



## MrWillys

We trucked and stocked our own board. 14' 1/2" except upstairs in 2 stories. hung 100 houses in a week in 1978 and installed more board than anyone in Nor Cal in 1985. We turned a piecework crew into commercial and kicked butt. I learned t-bar doors and framing. In commercial I could go home if I hung 45 10's by myself. Of course I'd fall asleep when I got home. I still get up at 3 am and eat dinner at 3 pm. With everything I learned I'm proudest of nailing on rock. Honestly, I think homes were simpler back then.


----------



## gopherstateguy

MrWillys said:


> We trucked and stocked our own board. 14' 1/2" except upstairs in 2 stories. hung 100 houses in a week in 1978 and installed more board than anyone in Nor Cal in 1985. We turned a piecework crew into commercial and kicked butt. I learned t-bar doors and framing. In commercial I could go home if I hung 45 10's by myself. Of course I'd fall asleep when I got home. I still get up at 3 am and eat dinner at 3 pm. With everything I learned I'm proudest of nailing on rock. Honestly, I think homes were simpler back then.


Homes were simpler back then.


----------



## VANMAN

cazna said:


> Dude, If you keep this up your ears will fill with sand.........Hang on, They already are.
> 
> You come on here, Bomb the hell out of the place with posts, Least you can do have an open mind, Hell you might even actually learn something if you were actually inviting to engage in a conversation. You are what I was ten years ago, And that's a dumb ar$e trowel grunter. Life could be a lot easier and a lot more fun if you pulled you head out but I get the feeling its well stuck, All the best buddy :thumbsup:


Been biting my tongue for a while now but Caz u hit it spot on!:thumbsup:
Bit more diplomatic than what I was going to say!!:whistling2:


----------



## cazna

Lol. Let rip van.


----------



## VANMAN

cazna said:


> Lol. Let rip van.


Better not as I would get banned!!


----------



## Krsw85

Residential.... I live in a rural area so I doubt I'll ever see anything last that long.... really wouldn't want to..... one of the best parts of the job is finnishing it


----------



## Krsw85

So its a control joint on the end of every sheet? Thats about 60ft, so you went above and beyond, 1 well placed control joint would take care of that.....


----------



## MrWillys

Krsw85 said:


> So its a control joint on the end of every sheet? Thats about 60ft, so you went above and beyond, 1 well placed control joint would take care of that.....


 Education is key.

https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/en/resource-center/faqs/1596.html


----------



## Krsw85

Been quite a while since I looked at that and I was right, it only needs one 2 control joints at most..... Its been almost a full year since I dealt with converting meters to feet.... so Id say 2 to be on the safe side.


----------



## Krsw85

Im still laughing about this, If your talking commercial then yea 100s of millions.... I laugh because I know some where near 80 percent have never seen a 13 million dollar house, let alone been allowed to work in one.... Its comical that you all compare your commercial work to my residential. The fact that people get all upset and assume that im closed minded, then brag up doing it wrong because "its easier for them" that lets me know I'm doing something right.


----------



## Krsw85

How is it possible that diluted mud and degraded bonding, is better than mixing it the way it comes from the factory and using it? Its not but apparently accepting the truth means I have my head in the sand. BTW if you use additives most brands expressly just voided any warranty on defective material... good luck in your dream world of taping being any easy job.


----------



## Krsw85

This is a second $1000 check for last week, so yea I make more than enough doing what I know works, that Im not about to go turn my mud into gypsum silica soup.


----------



## Krsw85

I've seen a few guys I would trust with tubes, heads, and corner tools, but very few.... If your using them and not over diluting your mud, great.... but I've seen a ton of gypsum silica soup.... and its not very good.... Im venting over this mostly because I just got off a jon with one of these guys....


----------



## gazman

Do you really need to make a separate post for every second sentence?


----------



## MrWillys

Krsw85 said:


> This is a second $1000 check for last week, so yea I make more than enough doing what I know works, that Im not about to go turn my mud into gypsum silica soup.


I brought home $1200 for 40 hours and another $700 if I worked Saturday and Sunday? And that was 4 years ago. My benefit package was $24 an hour and I haven't paid for fuel since 1985. I now get $4000 a month to stay home with full health benefits.
So what, it depends on where you are from. 13 million is California is peanuts as well as Lake Tahoe.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...-119.992397,39.228355,-120.008812_rect/15_zm/

I take it humility is not your strong suite?


----------



## Krsw85

Actually it's a failure of the website, they were supposed to be quotes, and individual replies to different comments.....


----------



## Krsw85

MrWillys said:


> Krsw85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a second $1000 check for last week, so yea I make more than enough doing what I know works, that Im not about to go turn my mud into gypsum silica soup.
> 
> 
> 
> I brought home $1200 for 40 hours and another $700 if I worked Saturday and Sunday? And that was 4 years ago. My benefit package was $24 an hour and I haven't paid for fuel since 1985. I now get $4000 a month to stay home with full health benefits.
> So what, it depends on where you are from. 13 million is California is peanuts as well as Lake Tahoe.
> 
> http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...-119.992397,39.228355,-120.008812_rect/15_zm/
> 
> I take it humility is not your strong suite?
Click to expand...

Generally I am a person of strong humility, but Im not very fond of people flapping their gums and saying I have my head in the sand just because I disagree with a system... saying that Im closed minded because I won't do something that I know for a fact is not good. Had they been paying attention to what I had said to begin with they would have read the back of a mud bucket and agreed with me.... I'm not the one that started getting combative, but I am a finisher, I know that I do great work, and you bet your assss someone gets combative with me and calls me a liar, they will get it right back.... Im just sick of people doing whats easy instead of what is right.


----------



## MrWillys

Krsw85 said:


> Generally I am a person of strong humility, but Im not very fond of people flapping their gums and saying I have my head in the sand just because I disagree with a system... saying that Im closed minded because I won't do something that I know for a fact is not good. Had they been paying attention to what I had said to begin with they would have read the back of a mud bucket and agreed with me.... I'm not the one that started getting combative, but I am a finisher, I know that I do great work, and you bet your assss someone gets combative with me and calls me a liar, they will get it right back.... Im just sick of people doing whats easy instead of what is right.


Okay, so you got a 14" caulk thicker than a beer can? What's next?


----------



## endo_alley

Krsw85 said:


> Im not saying Im faster, what I am saying is im about as good as it gets at what I do.... if you came on some of the jobs Ive been on.... 10 to 13 million dollar homes, I wouldnt have to kick you off the job, the contractor would.....


You're that good and you don't even V the butts and properly prepare the surface to be taped. You must be good.


----------



## endo_alley

Krsw85 said:


> How is it possible that diluted mud and degraded bonding, is better than mixing it the way it comes from the factory and using it? Its not but apparently accepting the truth means I have my head in the sand. BTW if you use additives most brands expressly just voided any warranty on defective material... good luck in your dream world of taping being any easy job.


Rather than talk, I suppose an experiment would be better. Properly prep the rock, and tape it with a bazooka, and then tape another piece of rock with thick mud. Try pulling the tape off after it is dried. See which is stronger. I think slightly looser mud soaks into the paper a little better and makes a better mechanical bond. But only an experiment will tell the whole story.


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## Krsw85

Who the hell told you I don't prepare the surface? Really.... do you have any clue at all? You may be right about slightly diluted mud, but thats not what we are talking about here is it? I don't mind a little bit of water, I doubt that it is better but I will try the expirament anyway. I just looked up preparing a butt joint on Google, I'll gibe you a guess on how many of the first 5 suggest cutting a V in it..... you obviously mentally neglected the situation in which I said I would not V a butt joint. 65° to 95°.... are you aware that materials expand and contract. Some people on here are just trying to be jerks and are not at all interested in a real conversation about the complexities of the trade. People like that are the reason outsiders think that drywall is brainless work.


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## Krsw85

I found on a USG pdf file what is clearly a suggestion to V butt joints to avoid contraction problems with the raw paper edge, aside from that, I prepare the joint exactly as desribed, if their is even a small gap, I would say it is a non issue and not necessary as long as you follow the rest of the protocol. Im avoiding an expansion problem.


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## Krsw85

The picture clearly shows a hanger holding onto the sheet and beveling the end of the sheet...... Ive been called back for a butt joint, ummm never.....


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## moore

endo_alley said:


> You're that good and you don't even V the butts and properly prepare the surface to be taped. You must be good.


I almost coughed up a lung laughing at this post!


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## moore

Krsw85 said:


> I found on a USG pdf file what is clearly a suggestion to V butt joints to avoid contraction problems with the raw paper edge, aside from that, I prepare the joint exactly as desribed, if their is even a small gap, I would say it is a non issue and not necessary as long as you follow the rest of the protocol. Im avoiding an expansion problem.


Dude ....did you say protocol ??:blink:  

Have you used the same brand of board for ...how ever many years? Each brand of board needs its own prep work . And if you haven't noticed .most wall board company's board has pretty well gone to chit in the last 10 years . From reading your post...I don't think you've seen the change .


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## fr8train

Come on a site where 75% of the folks are tool runners of some sort and start bashing the tools and this is what you get. 

For what it's worth, auto tools and hand finishing are two different systems. You can't use the tools like you're hand coating and you can't hand coat like you use the tools. Got to make adjustments to the to go from one to the other. 

As far as making mud soup. They make special mud for the tools. It's called machine mud/Ames tool around here. It's a different formulation than normal. More glue in it just so it can be thinned down with no ill effects. 


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## fr8train

As far as the machine mud goes. I've had it where it didn't need any water to use with the taper, from the factory. Just spin it and use it. 


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## Aussiecontractor

How do you do your level 5 ceilings champ ? 


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## fr8train

Aussiecontractor said:


> How do you do your level 5 ceilings champ ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Don't feed the troll lol


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## VANMAN

fr8train said:


> Come on a site where 75% of the folks are tool runners of some sort and start bashing the tools and this is what you get.
> 
> For what it's worth, auto tools and hand finishing are two different systems. You can't use the tools like you're hand coating and you can't hand coat like you use the tools. Got to make adjustments to the to go from one to the other.
> 
> As far as making mud soup. They make special mud for the tools. It's called machine mud/Ames tool around here. It's a different formulation than normal. More glue in it just so it can be thinned down with no ill effects.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Chit I would love to try run undiluted mud through the gun!!
I would say cable would last a roll of tape if that, Rolling and flushing angles would b real fun!:thumbup: Then prob the pump would say f*ck this and need repaired!:yes:


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## cazna

VANMAN said:


> Chit I would love to try run undiluted mud through the gun!!
> I would say cable would last a roll of tape if that, Rolling and flushing angles would b real fun!:thumbup: Then prob the pump would say f*ck this and need repaired!:yes:


 First time I used the gun I did that, Thinned it about as far as it would sit on a hawk. Pumped the zooka full and nearly busted the pump.

Then it wouldnt even turn the wheel to tape, I tried and tried, Just ripped tapes etc etc.

Then I had to get the dam mud out that went even more stiff in the tube and it was freezing cold wet day, So I started to try and turn the key to get it out, That was very hard to do and a freezing wet hand started to give up so being as I'm so smart I figured put a spanner on it turn it to get out the mud, Which I did, Then about 5 turns later the key fell off :furious:


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## VANMAN

cazna said:


> First time I used the gun I did that, Thinned it about as far as it would sit on a hawk. Pumped the zooka full and nearly busted the pump.
> 
> Then it wouldnt even turn the wheel to tape, I tried and tried, Just ripped tapes etc etc.
> 
> Then I had to get the dam mud out that went even more stiff in the tube and it was freezing cold wet day, So I started to try and turn the key to get it out, That was very hard to do and a freezing wet hand started to give up so being as I'm so smart I figured put a spanner on it turn it to get out the mud, Which I did, Then about 5 turns later the key fell off :furious:


Yea thick mud is no use in the gun or the pump!!
I was 1 for using thick mud for years but I have solved that problem:thumbup: Its called thin the chit down even more:thumbsup:
I know when I fill the gun now the way its pumping in it if its good mix or not!!


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## Krsw85

Most brands of rock refer you to GA 216... yea thats 20 minutes of my life I will never get back.... Its a bit like the specs saying sand between coats, do you sand between coats?


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## MrWillys

Krsw85 said:


> Most brands of rock refer you to GA 216... yea thats 20 minutes of my life I will never get back.... Its a bit like the specs saying sand between coats, do you sand between coats?


Now you're better that the Gypsum Association? I'm sorry but as an educated drywaller you've gone too far. Have you even done level 5 with your out of the box mud? my guys thinned it and rolled it on with a paint roller like Moore.

You do realize you are on a site of professionals in the trade? Stop being obtuse. Go ahead and look it up!

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/bsc.ca.gov/sibr/org.gypsum.GA-216-07.pdf


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## gazman

Krsw85 said:


> Most brands of rock refer you to GA 216... yea thats 20 minutes of my life I will never get back.... Its a bit like the specs saying sand between coats, do you sand between coats?


Yes. :yes:


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## moore

Krsw85 said:


> I found on a USG pdf file what is clearly a suggestion to V butt joints to avoid contraction problems with the raw paper edge, aside from that, I prepare the joint exactly as desribed, if their is even a small gap, I would say it is a non issue and not necessary as long as you follow the rest of the protocol. Im avoiding an expansion problem.


That's not why I cut loose Paper off the butt joints . The light weight boards have a raggedy factory cut because the board is mostly air .. I cut the loose paper of so as not to leave a spit line blister beneath the tape . It ain't rocket surgery ..


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## moore

Fact is...my hands and shoulders are mucked up as it is! 

I'm thinning my mud down as I see fit. Screw the rules!! :yes:


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## VANMAN

MrWillys said:


> Now you're better that the Gypsum Association? I'm sorry but as an educated drywaller you've gone too far. Have you even done level 5 with your out of the box mud? my guys thinned it and rolled it on with a paint roller like Moore.
> 
> You do realize you are on a site of professionals in the trade? Stop being obtuse. Go ahead and look it up!
> 
> https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/bsc.ca.gov/sibr/org.gypsum.GA-216-07.pdf


L5 out of the box would b really fun!
B aswell call it a scim coat! Then new wrists and shoulders!


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## Krsw85

Thats why I peel them, If I can rub my thumb across it and it rolls up, it gets peeled.... same effect, more work, but the compound bonds better to brown paper.


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## Krsw85

I skim coat with a 3 man 60 inch trowel and as little sanding as possible, lol..


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## Krsw85

VANMAN said:


> MrWillys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're better that the Gypsum A.ssociation? I'm sorry but as an educated drywaller you've gone too far. Have you even done level 5 with your out of the box mud? my guys thinned it and rolled it on with a paint roller like Moore.
> 
> You do realize you are on a site of professionals in the trade? Stop being obtuse. Go ahead and look it up!
> 
> https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/bsc.ca.gov/sibr/org.gypsum.GA-216-07.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> L5 out of the box would b really fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B aswell call it a scim coat! Then new wrists and shoulders!
Click to expand...

I do skim with it out of the pail.... Its nice to add a little water for that if your dealing with a lot of surface area. Its a lot of fun actually, I enjoy skim coating.


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## cazna

Thin that chit down. Tube bead it on the wall and spread out with a knife. Much easier.


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## Krsw85

I actually like the way it acts and stays where I put it when its not very thin.... should be thinned a bit because it dries out a lot skim coating if your going any real distance..... if its just a single sheet because it got marred by other workers, Im not going to thin it out at all, for L5 on a 20 sheet wall or ceiling, that I would thin it out a bit for.


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## Krsw85

Buy im not about to try to skim coat with soup....


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## Krsw85

What I am saying is that the GA litterature is very basic information, and I am well aware of what it says.... I've been finishing drywall for 12 years..... I worked for the largest drywall outfit in my home state for 4 years untill the downturn in 08.... there's not much I haven't seen or done......


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## cazna

For the love of God your like a broken record. I'm so good. I've done it all. I know everything. Anything anyone tells me I'm not going to consider or try it cause I'm just all that. Listen you up jumped know all big headed full of chit prick. You are dealing with people from all over the western world here. Different regions. Different methods. Different products and tools. Shut your massive pie hole and listen. I think you know little. Have done and tried little and will continue on this way until someone pulls those massive bungs out of your ears.


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## VANMAN

cazna said:


> For the love of God your like a broken record. I'm so good. I've done it all. I know everything. Anything anyone tells me I'm not going to consider or try it cause I'm just all that. Listen you up jumped know all big headed full of chit prick. You are dealing with people from all over the western world here. Different regions. Different methods. Different products and tools. Shut your massive pie hole and listen. I think you know little. Have done and tried little and will continue on this way until someone pulls those massive bungs out of your ears.


Ur 2 funny Caz!
12 yrs is a breeze I have been at it since I was about 18 and I'm still on the learning curve!!:blink:
Which would b 25 yrs!


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## gazman

You have been doing this for twelve years, big deal. There are blokes on here that were pushing mud when you were filling your diapers. Pull your head in shake the sand from your ears and you may actually learn something. This is a friendly place but your harping on just ticks people off.


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## moore

Krsw85 said:


> What I am saying is that the GA litterature is very basic information, and I am well aware of what it says.... I've been finishing drywall for 12 years..... I worked for the largest drywall outfit in my home state for 4 years untill the downturn in 08.... there's not much I haven't seen or done......


Well....I ain't sanding behind you!!! :whistling2:
You can grind those edges down yourself!! :thumbsup:


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## endo_alley

cazna said:


> First time I used the gun I did that, Thinned it about as far as it would sit on a hawk. Pumped the zooka full and nearly busted the pump.
> 
> Then it wouldnt even turn the wheel to tape, I tried and tried, Just ripped tapes etc etc.
> 
> Then I had to get the dam mud out that went even more stiff in the tube and it was freezing cold wet day, So I started to try and turn the key to get it out, That was very hard to do and a freezing wet hand started to give up so being as I'm so smart I figured put a spanner on it turn it to get out the mud, Which I did, Then about 5 turns later the key fell off :furious:





gazman said:


> You have been doing this for twelve years, big deal. There are blokes on here that were pushing mud when you were filling your diapers. Pull your head in shake the sand from your ears and you may actually learn something. This is a friendly place but your harping on just ticks people off.


re: "US Tapers so far behind MAINE" update


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## Krsw85

I learn plenty, I've read the document. Fasteners, 2 hr, 1 hr, prep and treatment. i know what it says... I never said I've seen it all... aparently ****face can't read.


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## Krsw85

There is sometging a little different on every job, but the basics are all the same... how much raw paper edge is left on a peeled butt joint ass hole.... how bout you go read the USG material and find out what Ving a butt is supposed to do....


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## cazna

Been V ing them for 20 years. Still learning and listening every day.


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## moore

Krsw85 said:


> There is sometging a little different on every job, but the basics are all the same... how much raw paper edge is left on a peeled butt joint ass hole.... how bout you go read the USG material and find out what Ving a butt is supposed to do....



Your not reading . Your not listening .

I only cut back slightly the loose paper .

I don't need to read the USG Material ...I've been using their chit for the last 31 years .. I know what they make that works...And I know what they make that don't. 


Most here are going to ignore you If you keep up with your negative post.. But I wont!! I'll go toe to toe with ya ! Till I've taught you what I've learned through trial and error . 

So bring It on grasshopper!!


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## cazna

Your a good man Moore, I just wanted to p!ss him off, Then he might start taking note.

Amazing how willing to help people on here are even when a doors shut in your face.

Prob hundreds of years in drywall experience here, Guys with 30 years plus doing it still learning.

12 years is just warming up, Actually I was about his level before i came here.............And that was one of the best moves in my life. :thumbsup:


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## Krsw85

moore said:


> Krsw85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is sometging a little different on every job, but the basics are all the same... how much raw paper edge is left on a peeled butt joint ass hole.... how bout you go read the USG material and find out what Ving a butt is supposed to do....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your not reading . Your not listening .
> 
> I only cut back slightly the loose paper .
> 
> I don't need to read the USG Material ...I've been using their chit for the last 31 years .. I know what they make that works...And I know what they make that don't.
> 
> 
> Most here are going to ignore you If you keep up with your negative post.. But I wont!! I'll go toe to toe with ya ! Till I've taught you what I've learned through trial and error .
> 
> So bring It on grasshopper!!
Click to expand...

Lol let me get this straight I dont follow the instructions from the mfg. And neither do you, neither of us have a problem with butt joints but your way is better why? A V in a butt joint is a V, not a little paper.... I was taught by people with well over 20 years experience at the time, I got a bit of an advantage on knife skills, prep and anything thay is basic...


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## moore

Krsw85 said:


> Lol let me get this straight I dont follow the instructions from the mfg. And neither do you, neither of us have a problem with butt joints but your way is better why? A V in a butt joint is a V, not a little paper.... I was taught by people with well over 20 years experience at the time, I got a bit of an advantage on knife skills, prep and anything thay is basic...


Sorry dude. What brand of board do you use?


Let me guess! Certainteed regular? Because that's mostly what you guys get up that way.


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## Krsw85

Depends on the job, this most recent job has a light weight sag resistant board doesn't seem to be a prominent name on the sheets.... I like the grid marx type x board usually believe thats a gold bond product. It hasnt changed much.... I like to stay away from Home depot when I can usually. They sell tough rock... its not great stuff, we do get certainteed board... its different on just about every job. Gold bond, USG, Georgia Pacific, we actually have a lot of choices.... It's the people you buy it from you have to be careful of. I see a lot of places that use no climate control, that can get scary.... I don't really like the GP board, but from homdepot it's been kept dry....


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## Krsw85

moore said:


> Krsw85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I am saying is that the GA litterature is very basic information, and I am well aware of what it says.... I've been finishing drywall for 12 years..... I worked for the largest drywall outfit in my home state for 4 years untill the downturn in 08.... there's not much I haven't seen or done......
> 
> 
> 
> Well....I ain't sanding behind you!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can grind those edges down yourself!!
Click to expand...

LOL I don't blame you. I dont like sanding behind others... On a small local job under 20 sheets or less and all my own. I hand sand... I dont even bother getting the pole sander out.


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## Krsw85

So I got another look at the rock this morning on a duplicate job. Its USG ultra light, rock hard and full of Holes, and when they say Ultra light they mean it. The 10 footers fealt about 40 lbs. And it is ****ty board really. We will see how it finishes.... stand up board so its not much of a test run on it. Doesn't seem to bad for finishing so far, except that the hanging sucks terribly.... I've got way more time in screws than I should have....


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## cazna

Krsw85 said:


> LOL I don't blame you. I dont like sanding behind others... On a small local job under 20 sheets or less and all my own. I hand sand... I dont even bother getting the pole sander out.


I haven't hand or pole sanded for 17 years. No need to mate. Small stuff I use that. Bigger stuff out comes the giraffe.


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## krafty

I've got a backpack sander no more dragging around floor model.It was awkward at first,but I like it now,especially on staging. 

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## cazna

krafty said:


> I've got a backpack sander no more dragging around floor model.It was awkward at first,but I like it now,especially on staging.
> 
> Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


You got a pic of that mate.


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## krafty

Yeah, it's at work now though, the namebrand is rotoblast from king drywall in canada, it's on their website. It's not bad for price


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## krafty

Oh yeah,I have seen other backpacks that look more comfortable though for janitorial work. Thought you could rig one up for any wand,as long as it's a hepa vac. I will get that and a porter cable next. Or a giraffe maybe. Do you like that wand?

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## cazna

Giraffe is great. Had it for ages. 12 years or so hasn't missed a beat.


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## krafty

Yeah,i've only used pc's, that pole sanding hurts. And I can still do 250 boards in a day. Which is still enough for me. 

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## gordie

O you tappers may just hate it but u got to board some stuff with the new sheet rock light 5/8's it's type x fire rated and is as light as the old 1/2 in reg o yes it's good . But yea you tapers might hate it will see haha. 😉


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## Krsw85

The porter cables are nice, thats about tje only tool I haven't got in my personal arsenal yet.... on a big job usually its for the LLc and he has one.... they are pretty damn nice, a lot faster than tje pole and a lot ledd dust


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## Krsw85

krafty said:


> I've got a backpack sander no more dragging around floor model.It was awkward at first,but I like it now,especially on staging.
> 
> Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk


I thougjt about buying one of those, does the head perform well? I'll tell you what would be nice is a dewalt cordless backpack tool act vac in 60 V


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## Krsw85

This job im on now sucks, lol stand up board, the screws are horrid most of them, 2 85 ft slat walls with both the bottoms and tops out in space, put a whole case of trim bead on, got about 10 min. Of prep to do and the rest of my day will be slamming bond, level 3 on a demising wall.... I was about sick of bead yesterday....


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## Krsw85

Ahh some reliefe, a great taper giving me a ride too work to plow this chit out.... 2-3 coats on 150 BS sheets of box store garbage.... Be out by 3 today.....


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