# How slow is it?



## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

I knew it was gonna be bad 2 years ago when Pulte homes announced they were pulling out of Kansas City. I was bummed because they had a HUGE subdivision 2 miles away from my shop in Lees Summit Mo. We did about 20 houses and they closed down the fort and bailed. Ive seen alot of builders go under in the last year or two, a few are still goin. Brand new neighborhoods completed that look like a ghost town. From what i hear kansas city is one of the better off places. Just curious how everyone else is doin. Remember when you seen someone you hadnt seen in a while and you always started out by saying "keeping buisy"now it seems almost sh*tty to say that. You guys have probably talked about this a thousand times and are sick of talking about it but i just joined. Interesting to talk to people around the country that crazy enough to love this trade too. peace out skillets


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Pulte's are still strong here, but they only hire the amigo's. As they charge pennies per sf. Besides those are what they are... cracker jack boxes, that are just made to put up. No quality.

*side note - - - - - - - -
a lot is 2 words
you don't seen people, you saw them.


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

i kinda hate replying to these kinda threads because I've doubled my workforce in the last month, busier than hell over here.
obama will turn things around over there quick enough but it'll take a generation to pay-off his spending so git your asses in gear when it finally trickles down into the hands of home buyers buying new houses getting ya back to normal.
just don't bitch to much when things get good again and he's forced to hike taxes to pay it off, friggen wall street put the world on hold temporarilly, those suits should be punished to hang board in arizona or florida during the summer as punishment make em sweat to earn a buck.


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

Whity , I seen alot of them there pulte houses to. gracious Antonio


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

:smartass:


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

Obama.... yeah.... change......yeah.....

it's only for 4 years...... we can last


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

mccain woulda spent his way out just the same so whats the dif, something tells me you don't like your prez "******" lol


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I'll hold my opinions as I don't want this to become a political debate. Thank you :surrender:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Hmmm, Mudderman, you be a drywall "star", eh?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Obama Change 3 quarters 2 dimes a nickel


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## muddermankc (Apr 6, 2009)

nope darren, former WBS


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

I heard that Pulte and Sentex are joining forces to become the country's largest home builder, with the Quality of Pulte Homes, Boy this should be good, I don't know much about Sentex, but if they hire the low ballers who work on Pulte Homes, well this will mean more crapping houses that will need rebuild and remodeling within a couple of years, Here in Michigan Pulte moved to a factory style building, cause the contractors they hire do crap work, so this way they figure they can control Quality:whistling2:
Still crap houses.



www.frankawitz.net


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Mudderman, been killing me to know, how were things at WBS when you left?


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## bob16 (Jan 28, 2008)

The drywall want ads disappeared where i live (suburbs of NYC) around late 2001. They haven't returned. With 36 years in this business i can say that is by far the worst downturn in the drywall labor market i have ever seen.

Thanks Bush and republicans. 

Any wonder why they got fired from all branches of the government. 

They are nuts with their market fundamentalism. No matter how many times they end up losing (remember Daddy Bush getting fired too) because of their insane economic policy they refuse to change.


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## rabb (Mar 22, 2008)

thing are bad here in chicago for me ,i am 53 year's old ,man it's bad here
last to come and first to go


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

Bob, you need to look back to 1998 when Barney Frank was running the committee who was over looking Fannie May and Freddy Mac, Clinton started this mess.:whistling2: sub prime lending:thumbsup: People living over and above their means, GREED

Wait intil GM drops there are going to be all kinds of people out of work, Housing Market isn't going to come back for 5 years maybe more. the other thing is yeah Taxes are going to go up, figure around 50% or more, or who knows we just might move right over to Socialism:thumbup:


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## LadyFinisher (Apr 16, 2009)

In my opinion, I think it's important to remember that the nature of things is simple: What goes up must come down; What goes down must go up.
A certain amount of time will go by and as the people at large start to feel safe again things will get better. This all happened before in the 30's, the great depression, the difference between now and then is there are programs that help most families to feed their children. Those programs were put in place due to the hunger during the depression. This is/ was just as bad as it was then. Some businesses will go under and others will make it through. Probably before it is all over there might be a tax increase. Maybe this time we, as americians, will learn to make better chioces about our spending and savings, etc.
Just my opinion.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

I can't help but think bob is sort of a sheep. I can't help but role my eyes when I read stuff like that. Anyone who really believes one is better than the other is a fool. All presidents are "bought" before getting into office. My wifes family is all Bush is evil this and Bush that. My parents are all Obama is evil and Obama that. The honest president would be the one with no ties to lobbying groups, and would never get elected. However, as a conservative, I still wish the media gave the right the same treatment they give the left. I also wish a white person could make an observation that was true and not be pinned a racist, but neither will happen anytime soon.


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> I can't help but think bob is sort of a sheep. I can't help but role my eyes when I read stuff like that. Anyone who really believes one is better than the other is a fool. All presidents are "bought" before getting into office. My wifes family is all Bush is evil this and Bush that. My parents are all Obama is evil and Obama that. *The honest president would be the one with no ties to lobbying groups, and would never get elected.* However, as a conservative, I still wish the media gave the right the same treatment they give the left. * I also wish a white person could make an observation that was true and not be pinned a racist, but neither will happen anytime soon.*


I agree 100%. Well said, A+.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

a+ texture llc said:


> i can't help but think bob is sort of a sheep. I can't help but role my eyes when i read stuff like that. Anyone who really believes one is better than the other is a fool. All presidents are "bought" before getting into office. My wifes family is all bush is evil this and bush that. My parents are all obama is evil and obama that. The honest president would be the one with no ties to lobbying groups, and would never get elected. However, as a conservative, i still wish the media gave the right the same treatment they give the left. I also wish a white person could make an observation that was true and not be pinned a racist, but neither will happen anytime soon.


100%


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

i voted Democrat thinking maybe,just maybe it would result in something worthwhile but then again i also play the quarter toss once in a great while even though i worked at a carny gamebooth one summer and not to mention playing the lottery a few times a year.....its ALL F-ing FIXED....and so are we...especially if youre a white male construction worker now...i spoke against racism and now i'm the black sheep in my inlaws and families eyes AND still the 'priveledged ******' even though i'm driving around in a beatup 85 suburban and living check to check. as for work: i got slammed with jobs from march til yesterday which is when the current contractor decided he liked butchers specials more than quality cuts. not even much of a price difference....makes no sense.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Amen evolve991. Trying to keep an upbeat outlook w/ regards to economy, but getting pretty difficult. Feel a little like being locked in a room full of horse $#it and looking for the pony. We haven't run out of work..yet. But don't have any backlog. The phone is due to start ringing again, or is that just a ringing in my ears from all the stimulus talk..:confused1:


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

I would say your not the only one feeling like this, I m sure there are a lot of white people who thought "This is History in the making and I want to be a part of it so I'll vote for the Democrats first Black President":whistling2:
Well the thing is they didn't listen to what he was really telling the people of American, in other words "Hey white folks I'm going to make the playing field level, I want to give those 95% of Americans a Tax Cut,:thumbup: So I'm gonna lay you off and give your jobs to the minority folks, the 95% that sit on their azz collecting Welfair, these are the people who will be lifted up out of the slums". Here in Michigan we have 12.6% unemployed and once GM goes into Bankruptcy we should see unemployment run around
18% and that is going to reach across this country, Now we are seeing Gas Prices going up 10 to 25 cent a day, last week gas was at $1.96 last night it was up to $2.49, What the hell I thought Obama was going to lower the prices. But now we have three and half more years. So how close do you think we will be to Socalism? Obama and his crew are going to take people's guns next, that way when he tells people that they are under Marshall Law they can't defend themselves
You would think that after all the crap Bill Clinto did they would have voted for some other Party then Democrats or Republicans, Well maybe come 2010 people will wake up and Vote all the azzholes out of the House and the Senate that is the problem. people like Pelosie needs to go. just my two cents on this subject:whistling2:


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

I,like an idiot, assumed he meant the SUCCESSFUL,POWERFUL whites not us street level grunts who are,and have been,living in identical conditions as those minorities he fights for. In all reality if you don't have a large bank account,ties to influential figures,alot of people working under you and you're white then YOU are the minority! Just who the hell fights for our rights? We're expected to live under restrictions made by men related to,or who have prospered from, those who made slavery commonplace in the past and sold US out! The majority of construction workers are descendants of immigrants who came here long after the Civil War ended slavery,who couldn't get a decent job and ended up doing what no one else wanted to do....roofers,framers,police officers,railroad workers etc....sound familiar??? I will fight for anyones right to survive,to have security and freedom despite thier creed or color but let someone take what I have earned and give it to them?? No. Treat me like a criminal when I have worked for everything I own(ed) and most of what the prosperous enjoy??? No. It seems I have a war on multiple fronts. I'm not paying for another do-nothing to get another Vette or bigger swimming pool. I'm not paying for El Ghosto to have new teeth when I can't go to a dentist myself. I'm not supplying thier kids with schooling when mine can't get a decent education. I am STILL not a fan of Republicans,fact is when one is President I barely make ends meet,but I feel pretty F-ing dumb for thinking anything would change for us workers. And I am SICK of the spoiled,self worshipping GOP using "I Told You So" tactics while they manipulate the economy to reflect thier displeasure. Wall Street is a bunch of goddamn posers who make things more complicated then it needs to be. As for guns: I never had one but I do have lots of sharp tools and impliments of destruction.Animals don't have guns either but go ahead and back one into a corner. So Imaginary Diety Bless the New Confederacy!! I'll keep a real America in mind thru every tyrannical decision every Well Off comrade thinks to shackle me with. Now please excuse me I have to go sharpen my teeth.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

At the risk off really setting you off, didya hear they want to rename the party the "Socialist Democrat" party? Sounds like a little buyer's remorse, eh? What happened to Obama's promise of no tax increase for 95% of Americans? Then to want to tax soda pop for cripes sake. Can't close Gitmo either, his own party won't fund it and don't want the terrorists in their backyard. The GOP didn't have all the answers, but at least they weren't out to raise capital gains, and taxes et al. Now the govt. is taking* SOLE* ownership of GM, and I get to help pay off everyone else's credit card bill. So yes, *I TOLD YOU SO!*

Wanna hear the really funny part? over 54% of Americans believed all that hope and change and hope it changes crap and deserve it.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

The thing with both partys, they do not give two pieces of sh*t about the working people of this Country, if they did they would be in Washington DC for no Monetry value, They would be happy with a house to live in food, but with all the crap they take as it is, why should they receive a pay check intil the day they die? why do they have the BEST Healthcare, the BEST Pensions, Cause they write the Laws  WTF!! they should get a place to stay, a ride to work(If that's what you call it) Feed them three meals a day and give them ONE Vaction not half a dozen. If the People took half of the pay that Congress makes holly crap the debt would be paid down in no time. But like I have said for Years they all need to be Voted OUT of Office. anyone with more then 5 years should go. But Americans don't have the brains to make a sweeping clean out of the House and Senate:whistling2:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

What's worse, having old crones up there for forty years at stretch, getting the home district pork projects, or a rookie every 6 years who can't find his way to the washroom? Term limits be a two-edged sword. It's just like the trades, takes a few years to figure out to get stuff done for the constituents that sent him/her there.

But it should be an _honor_ to serve for *FREE*. Not some entitlement program. It took a lot of nads for them to vote theirselves another raise last fall.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

With Obama now wanting National Healthcare holy crap this spending is going up and out of site. by the time Obama is done all Americans should be in a 53% Tax rate to pay for all this sh*t:whistling2: That's one thing about Democarts they can spend the Taxpayers money faster then the Federal Reserve can print it:thumbup:. What's gonna happen when China wants it's money back:whistling2: I guess we'll all be working in a sweat shop for .90 an hour or was that a day:whistling2:


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## LSDrywall (Jun 3, 2009)

"How slow is it?" turns polotical???? Blaming the left or the right is like blaming the match or the gasoline when it was the arsonist that burnt your house down. Tommy Douglas said it best "why is it we elect a black cat and then a white cat then a black and wonder why things never get better for us mice why don't we elect a mouse?"

Those of us that work with our hands are screwed iether way so to argue left or right Dem or Rep is usless it actually helps those in power they don'r care about us, they do care about the future majority race and thusly both parties stance on illegals is what it is. The root of the problem lies in some part to do with belive it or not members of this very profession! I am of course am talking about those that hire illegals. Very few illegals market or mangage thier own business they sub for a contractor and as far as I am concerned these are the lowest of low. their is a special spot that is very warm reserved for them.

LS


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

:clap:


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

The black and white cats get elected because of lobbies, the mouse will always suffer while the cat hordes the cheese. 
And it's not just companies hiring the illegals it's joe homeowner that gave a $5 or $6k remodeling job to a bonehead for $3K, after I came HIGHLY recomended by his close friend. Also the Mexican owned companies that only hire Mexicans. South park said it last night "They (goobacks) toooook ooouuur jobs"


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## LSDrywall (Jun 3, 2009)

If this so called bonehead is legal/licensed runs by the same rules you do I’m afraid you have nothing to complain about that is just capitalism at work. He may be a hack but that’s how it goes.


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## Stormy_Ny (Jun 13, 2009)

LSDrywall said:


> If this so called bonehead is legal/licensed runs by the same rules you do I’m afraid you have nothing to complain about that is just capitalism at work. He may be a hack but that’s how it goes.


They don't play by the same rules ...... Thus the conflict.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

The point is and was is that it's not just companies hiring illegally, it is also the homeowners. I was sellin an apple, he will get an orange.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Just wait til you find em on a prevailing wage job, being paid 60% of the rate from the book. That'll really piss you off.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> And it's not just companies hiring the illegals it's joe homeowner that gave a $5 or $6k remodeling job to a bonehead for $3K, after I came HIGHLY recomended by his close friend. Also the Mexican owned companies that only hire Mexicans.


yea, thats the worst.

i got undercut by 15% today on a bid from (the owner bluntly admitted it, surprisingly) 'some mexican fella...dont think he has a company. but he knows a ton of mexicans...'

...

thats what he told me........................

yea.......the thing was.....i wasnt even 'mad' i got beat out by this guy....by 15%..........but could just hardly hold my laughter in.

i mean....this is just getting to the point where its pure comedy now folks.


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## LSDrywall (Jun 3, 2009)

I perhaps am confused or at the least misunderstood a couple of things...first A+ I thought you were talking as if the 3k contractor was legit not an illegal, licensed insured what have you? If not then :furious: if he is just a hack but albeit a legal hack we have no recourse and that’s it. I get beat by hacks all the time; if they want cheap they get cheap which isn't in the long run it actually costs more.

2nd, in your part of the country perhaps home owners do hire illegal, here in the Midwest its not often as if they showed there face they would be laughed at, what happens is (excuse the factious name) "****** Drywall" rights up a proposal/bid secures the job and the HO thinks he is doing the work when in reality he takes his $ has illegal do the work knowing full well they are illegal. Worse yet ****** may hire one who is legal and pays him quite well but it is up to his one legal sub to distribute his pay out to his illegal crew/family how he sees fit. This absolves the head of the snake, ****** Drywall, of any legal problems. 

Where I am at many people act as there own contractor in building their own home its quite common then they do some of the work themselves and sub out different trades. One of my good friends was going to a house to measure it up for a flooring bid. He was in the market for a new lot to build on and when he saw the lot for sale next door he called his wife to meet him to take a look. His wife is in law enforcement and was in plain cloths that day but none the less had her badge displayed on her belt. I wasn't there but I herd it was hilarious to see the illegals run..... Jumping out of windows leaving everything behind. 

My point is people think they are doing the right thing by hiring legit contractors and with not even knowing it thru no fault of their own end up hiring the snake who hires illegals.

Darren as for 60% of "P" wage nothing pisses me off more..... That’s why I posted what I did, there is nothing we can do about hacks every profession/business has them, but fellow contractors that are selling each other out? This has to stop.

A while back a commercial job went up I'd say 2500 sheets, word got out that illegal were doing the work so a buddy of mine drove buy the site stopped to snoop around and saw 2 guys working no big deal. Came back the nest morning to find these 2 guys must be awesome because they had hung a good 300 sheets buy the next morning. Something didn't add up so we quit early that day got something to eat and followed the guys to the hotel, and played the waiting game..... Once it got dark they left in their van went to a secluded camp ground and picked up their crew! I'm guessing to work thru the night out of view of course. perhps they liked to wrok nights but I find it strange they kept them away from other trades during the day?

LS


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

LS, why not contact your Local Building dept. let them in on what is going on, if someone doesn't telling the Authoritys how are they going to know this crap is going on, I think there are ways to put an end to these Illegals but guys have to get involved. It's like anything else, you can't sit on the fence and hope someone else will step in and make it all better. I would get a camera and video tape this night crew, show the Building Dept I am sure if they don't come down on this scumbag, ICE will be told and they will come out and put an end to these night crews. Good luck


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## LSDrywall (Jun 3, 2009)

The night crew was years ago, and for the record I do turn in the guilty parties but here is the biggest part of the problem. I went to high school/played hockey with one of, get this,,,,, 2 agents that works for customs and immigration. That is 2 agents to cover all of western North Dakota. I consider him a friend and he does what he can but the pressure is on for him to not deal with illegals unless they are involved in other crimes-drugs, child porn the real nasty guys. They are so understaffed it is unreal. Now some of you may think "North Dakota ya big deal" I know we are not that populated but keep in mind as far as volume goes we have the 5th busiest port in the country, 70% of all canadian truck traffic comes thru ND. Border potrol works the actual border but he has to get involved when its a customs or immigration issue alot of the time. 

Believe me when it comes to informing law enforcement I am the first to do so.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Wow dude 2 agents for all that area, I can see the border from my house, yet we probably all deal w the same bullsh**. I can help you my friend. Score some meth at your local home depot (the guys across the street probably sell it as well as work for 3.50 an hour) then plant it where you know there gonna be workin. Call your buddy let him know where to look. You'll have more jobs in no time. LOL :thumbup:. Man I wish that would really work. It probably could for you though. Now that I think of it try to score some kiddie porn off the net and plant that too, they'll be done for sure. Hmmm? Did I go to far just now?? Sorry if I did but desperate times call for desperate measures.


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## LSDrywall (Jun 3, 2009)

I bet the border down there looks nothing like this one! Anyone from down south would be amazed to see the northern US border in rural areas. No fence but we all own lots of guns and know how to use them.
We are lucky here the closest Home Depot was 110 miles away and it closed down becasue it lost so much money the next closest is 240 miles away. We do have Home Center/big box just like Home Depot but no illegals hanging out in the lot, locals wouldn't put up with it. 

As for the drugs and porn, let me put it this way...At first I was pissed at him when he said "We are not that worried about illegal labor you should see what I am concerned about"! Then he told me a few stories....I turned white and had to sit down, I would rather he spent all his time getting these sickos!!!


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Chris Hansen cant do it all. It's our turn to help. The name of his new show will be "To catch an illegal predator"


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

LS, you and I have the same situation.

So far this year though, I feel like I haven't seen as many of them on the job, kind of weird..... they must be doing nights...


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