# Certainteed wallboard



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

1. Grid marxs is crumble board [like all n/g board ] paper is very weak ,,but has a good recess. butts are fuzzy [loose paper ] have to v it or prefill.
2. Pro rock.. high shoulders every time . At first I thought bad batch .,,but no. face is rippled BAD!! see pic. 
3. Templeinland rock ..same as pro rock ,heavy ripples in field ,and VERY high shoulders . I will say pro rock @ temple rock have a decent factory cut on butts.
I called all G/Cs ,and told them it's USG or find someone else to do your work. I'm not fighting this trash anymore. 


I only supply labor.,,,,and I aint changing that.. ,,,,,,,:furious:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I feel your pain brother...I'm going to have call the supply house after today...at least 75% of the recesses were high shouldered today. I'd love to be able to get away with using smaller blades on the bevel....but I just can't. What a waste of material.


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## MacDry (Feb 1, 2010)

*high shoulders eh......*

hey, this is going to sound stupid since I should probably know this after seven years, but what does high shouldered refer to exactly? The bevel....? thanks in advance!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

MacDry said:


> hey, this is going to sound stupid since I should probably know this after seven years, but what does high shouldered refer to exactly? The bevel....? thanks in advance!


they fkd up the recess from the factory...


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

High shoulders are when the edge of the the board, right where it drops into the bevel sit proud of the board. It makes it so that you not only have the bevel to fill, but you also have a recess beside the bevel that you have to take care off.


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## MacDry (Feb 1, 2010)

fr8train said:


> High shoulders are when the edge of the the board, right where it drops into the bevel sit proud of the board. It makes it so that you not only have the bevel to fill, but you also have a recess beside the bevel that you have to take care off.


 Thanks man, and wow, I have never seen that before. Lucky me!! looks like a nightmare.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

We don't get it too often, but when we do, we know it! Job we did a few weeks ago had it, wish we would have caught it on the tape coat. Didn't find it till we started running the box.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

. Didn't find it till we started running the box. __________________


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> I called all G/Cs ,and told them it's USG or find someone else to do your work. I'm not fighting this trash anymore.
> 
> 
> I only supply labor.,,,,and I aint changing that.. ,,,,,,,:furious:


Looks like your gonna loose a lot of work>>>>>
Why not take "control" of the entire job.You are a "drywall" contractor,aren't you??? I don't even want the job these days unless I am in control from start to finish.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> I called all G/Cs ,and told them it's USG or find someone else to do your work. I'm not fighting this trash anymore.
> 
> 
> I only supply labor.,,,,and I aint changing that.. ,,,,,,,:furious:


A more delicate approach is:

"I will continue to charge the same rate if you provide USG sheetrock. Any other brand will have a *insert number that makes a General Contractor's butt hurt*/sq. ft. price increase associated with it. Feel free to recover the added costs from the drywall manufacturer you chose."


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

You are absolutely correct. I need to go to the source. 
I did a board count today ..220 board 2 story.. showed the g/c a scrap 
piece of pro-rock he saw the ripples right off ,,i held a straight edge up to the bevel ..He said I don't want that rock in this home,,I made copies of F8train's post.. It really helped to explain high shoulders . Thanks F8train!!
G/c told me to take my material list to HIS supply house ,and have them order the materials I want ,,no matter the cost.

Guess what I got at the supply??? BLAH,BLAH,BLAH !!! 
I won't go into detail, but my ears turned red ,and I spurt out a little BLAH,BLAH.. FTD Is right . If I want to use quality products I will have to supply them myself. The jacka$$ at the supply told me ..all certainteed rock is the same ,:blink:,,It's good rock. Same ole story with this supply .
I finally got them to carry no-coat. They said ,,what's wrong with our straight flex? I ask for USG board they say that's high dollar board!
WTF!! I'm trying to get a better product AND make them money at the same time. I'll say It again WTF!!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Final touch drywall said:


> Looks like your gonna loose a lot of work>>>>>
> Why not take "control" of the entire job.You are a "drywall" contractor,aren't you??? I don't even want the job these days unless I am in control from start to finish.


I won't lose any work for caring .


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Talking about shoulders,,,,,,

Sweetie came back for a dcotor vist and said that the doc told her she had dandruff and NEEDED head and shoulders

After thinking about that for abit,,, I told her,,"Gee babe,,,I don't really KNOW how to GIVE SHOULDERS"!!!!!!


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## Final touch drywall (Mar 30, 2010)

moore said:


> I won't lose any work for caring .


Your right & it shows you care a lot about your work.That's why you should have control from start to finish.Trust me things go so much smoother.Tell the gc's you want a deposit for materials 3 days before start date. And get the material you want.Now everyone's happy.


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Good to see the stand Moore is taking on this. Suppliers will just keep flogging the same bad board unless they suddenly have no sales for the product. When that happens the manufacturing plant just might pay attention to quality control.

Out here we complain to the supplier when we see bad board and what do they do? They are so predictable, they show up with a 10 dollar bag of Con-fill as a peace offering.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

The one defect we seem to keep getting is something we call tiger stripping. It looks like tiger stripes, running right down the middle of the board, and it only appears on the 12 foot lengths only:blink:, sheet rock brand.

Anyone else get that too.

Not a major fix, but still, you got to trowel or skim it out once. they show up really good when you sand, the dust exposes them, or when you do the screws. One foot wide, right down the middle of the sheet.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

if you complain enough the companies rep. will come to your site,take you and the guys to lunch,buy you lots of beer and maybe kick down to the painters to repaint. (usg)


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

*My tantrums may have paid off..*

It was a cold a$$ morning In January ..really ! I got to the job this morning at 7:00 .Standing in front of the space heater drinking my coffee thinking ,,am I drying or thawing??:blink: ,and dreading the high shoulders I have to fix on this turd. A guy walks in[REP from Common wealth building materials,,largest supplier of drywall materials in VA.] asked me ,are you Moore? I say what's left of him,,yes. He says,, we hear your not pleased with our wallboard........In a nut shell I explain the heavy ripples ,high shoulders then shine a 500 watt hologen across a dark wall ,and hold a 14'' straight edge against the recess..He says I'm not the first to complain about certianteed .then asked what brand I prefer I say USG ..he said USG Is special order Moore . The g/cs won't pay for IT..Which brand of certianteed do you want ?? I tell him none I want gold bond. It's the best of the worst ... The guy says no problem ,,from now on that's what we will send to your jobs.I start to tell him who my builders are ,and he says I know who your builders are.Tells me to figure my time for fixing the high shoulders ...told him No! That I won't do.. your the supplier not the manufactuer ..certainteed are the ones that owe me .. Just let them know what kind of trash there puttin out ,,and that will be payment enough for me .



The rep was a nice guy,understanding, listened to what I had say ,,and I could tell he had heard my rant before.. but ..damit 2buck as soon as he pulled out the drive ,,it hit me!!! I didn't bitch about the loose paper on the factory butts:furious:KICK ME IN THE A$$...! oh well ,,maybe next time!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks fr8train ! those prints helped me out...


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## bmedra9 (Apr 7, 2012)

*same problem*

we also had this problem with alot of factory press marks doing the hampton inn in marquette,mi but we back charged our supplier for having to level 5 alot of it we took alot of pictures and we got results


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

HEY! pro-rock.....


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

:lol: :lol: :lol: You're a hoot moore !


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gee Moore, at least you could do is shave and put a clean shirt on, then they would take you more serious:whistling2:


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

You can tell moores a drywaller he canT open his hand all the way ..his fingers flying at half mast !


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Off topic..


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> Off topic..National Gypsum - 85 and Still Growing - YouTube


Why is that video 16mins!? Yuck...
So long..


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Why is that video 16mins!? Yuck...
> So long..


 It's a good vid ...Tells a good story..I liked it.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> It's a good vid ...Tells a good story..I liked it.


I'll check it out in a bit. I started into it but lost attention pretty quickly.


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## punisher (Jun 10, 2012)

give em one for me to!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

punisher said:


> give em one for me to!


 WILL DO!:thumbup:


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## charlesdumar (Apr 21, 2012)

Moore Why Nocoat over straight flex isn't it twice as much and takes more time to coat?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

charlesdumar said:


> Moore Why Nocoat over straight flex isn't it twice as much and takes more time to coat?


 http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/strait-flex-vs-no-coat-1563/

I just dont trust the flex..not that I won't use it..I will put it on up-n-downs but never in a ceiling off angle... I'm not saying no-coat won't pop loose when the trusses walk ,,but it tends to have more give.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Well it looks like I get to talk to a certainteed rep tomorrow..............again:whistling2:

My ceilings are doing what Moores pics are showing in post #1. At first I was wondering why it was bad, but I just passed it off as being a reno job, stuff being crooked etc...... but then I had to question why it was the same on the 2 additions to the house (new areas)

Called the DWC, and asked him to check what type of cd board was supplied. Sure enough it was certainteed

He's suppose to be there between 10 and 11 in the morning

So are there any messages you guys would like me to pass a long to him:whistling2:

Maybe we can have a live conference meeting with him, here on DWT,,,,, I could sign in live by cell phone:thumbup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> so are there any messages you guys would like me to pass a long to him:whistling2:


*Moore and PT say hi!*


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well it looks like I get to talk to a certainteed rep tomorrow..............again:whistling2:
> 
> My ceilings are doing what Moores pics are showing in post #1. At first I was wondering why it was bad, but I just passed it off as being a reno job, stuff being crooked etc...... but then I had to question why it was the same on the 2 additions to the house (new areas)
> 
> ...


Ask if it's really true that it's more cost effective to refund a little money than to keep up with machine maintenance at the manufacturing facility:whistling2: Then ask how much a good reputation is worth:blink:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well it looks like I get to talk to a certainteed rep tomorrow..............again:whistling2:
> 
> My ceilings are doing what Moores pics are showing in post #1. At first I was wondering why it was bad, but I just passed it off as being a reno job, stuff being crooked etc...... but then I had to question why it was the same on the 2 additions to the house (new areas)
> 
> ...




Tell him I demand a 44" and 50" box to finish the rest of the f*cking wall or ceiling ! :furious:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> *Moore and PT say hi!*
> View attachment 4427
> 
> View attachment 4428


And SlimPickins too....


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

mudslingr said:


> Tell him I demand a 44" and 50" box to finish the rest of the f*cking wall or ceiling ! :furious:


C'mon Mudslingr....Go grab your camera and join the rest of us :laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Actually, I will show the rep this thread tomorrow, So keep the post coming

Lets hope he keeps his appointment, and will up date everyone tomorrow

Thanks,,,, need sleep to be on my toes tomorrow:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Actually, I will show the rep this thread tomorrow, So keep the post coming
> 
> Lets hope he keeps his appointment, and will up date everyone tomorrow
> 
> Thanks,,,, need sleep to be on my toes tomorrow:thumbsup:


I wish I could be there with my video camera to catch the reps face as you show him a thread full of drywallers giving his company the finger!
As he goes onto reading that we plan on taking big heaping craps and wiping our asses with their shirts! Hahaha!
The rep will probably confirm it. 
Drywall sales have plummeted, however t-shirt sales are through the roof!! :laughing:


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

J'aime panneax Certainteed !


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Bahahaha!! That made me laugh bro! Too funny! 
J'aim panneaux certainteed....hahaha


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

If I was Certainteed I would be most afraid of mudslingr ! Good one mudslingr. :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

Mudshark said:


> If I was Certainteed I would be most afraid of mudslingr ! Good one mudslingr. :thumbsup:


Hahaha! Very true! He's a scary dude.
Hard to believe that fearsome picture came from this loving guy







I guess that's what happens when you win an auto-taper! haha!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

the second pic looks more scary


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> Well it looks like I get to talk to a certainteed rep tomorrow..............again:whistling2:
> 
> My ceilings are doing what Moores pics are showing in post #1. At first I was wondering why it was bad, but I just passed it off as being a reno job, stuff being crooked etc...... but then I had to question why it was the same on the 2 additions to the house (new areas)
> 
> ...


 Between 10 and 11 you will hear this....blah .blah...blah.blah and blah..and then they will send it to you in writing.:yes:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

he was a no show today, suppose to be coming tomorrow,,,, again

Actually, in the real world, I'm a very serious type, I don't clown around a lot, I'm all business and work. 2bjr is the comical one, always goofing around and so forth. For some reason I act like him on DWT...... so........

Need ammunition for tomorrow....

remember reading on here (think it was Moore) that some feel their not letting the board dry properly. That the paper is contracting back , causing the shoulders to swell, or leave tiger stripping/ripples. Their shipping it out to faster than they can make it type thing...... I remember talking to rep last time, he said it was a roller issue...... so

True or not ??????


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## punisher (Jun 10, 2012)

maybe they bought some old machines,maybe the paper won't hold up to the rollers,maybe the gypsum is too wet or dry or hot or cold,maybe they stack it too long and the bev sags or not long enough........Bottom line:24 inch wide flats 20'long for ever and ever andeverandeverrrrrrrr.Sorry for the pessimism guys,just finnished another pro roc job and I have no fuzzy feelings at all.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> he was a no show today, suppose to be coming tomorrow,,,, again
> 
> Actually, in the real world, I'm a very serious type, I don't clown around a lot, I'm all business and work. 2bjr is the comical one, always goofing around and so forth. For some reason I act like him on DWT...... so........
> 
> ...




Just going by what Remcraz was saying it is a roller issue.
Post #138. http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/certainteed-drywall-problems-3220/index7/#post58341


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> he was a no show today, suppose to be coming tomorrow,,,, again
> 
> Actually, in the real world, I'm a very serious type, I don't clown around a lot, I'm all business and work. 2bjr is the comical one, always goofing around and so forth. For some reason I act like him on DWT...... so........
> 
> ...


 If it's a roller issue. Then all there plants need to look at there rollers. 
I had a n/g rep tell me years ago that once the board comes off the press , It goes into storage to cure . That's what makes me think certainteed is shipping out hot rock.
But maybe the high shoulders are in there specs. :blink: ,,but why the tiger stripping /ripply fields?


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

moore said:


> If it's a roller issue. Then all there plants need to look at there rollers.
> I had a n/g rep tell me years ago that once the board comes off the press , It goes into storage to cure . That's what makes me think certainteed is shipping out hot rock.
> But maybe the high shoulders are in there specs. :blink: ,,but why the tiger stripping /ripply fields?


Or maybe!? They just all SUCK!! Period!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

well, the rep came by today. I could tell he's sick of dealing with the same complaints all the time. Plus the bugger started to put a straight edge to walls well the contractor and home owner were there. We had to put a stop to that real fast since it's a reno:blink:..... smart bugger:furious:

he was a good guy, met him before. He's a ex drywall guy. Cute part was, The home owner was a ex-drywall guy, and he apprenticed under the certainteed rep. So they had a happy little reunion going on.

Also, a painter came by to price the job. Turns out this was the painter who primed out one of my last houses with smooth finish flat paint. It was sorta nice to have a drywall rep there as I ripped into the painter. The rep was holding back from laughing, but the contractor didn't like it. He had to break up the argument, it was getting too heated for him. Dork of a painter said primer is too expensive.............:furious:

But he did say the tiger stripping/ripples has been resolved, and that it's the rollers doing the damage on the bevells. You could tell he's sick of dealing with this issue, and that's all I can say.

He did say he has visited DWT, if that makes anyone happy

So he came, he saw, and said we could fix it now. Which we needed him to do so we can finish the job


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Poor painter - no painters are safe around you I suppose 2 buck


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

If one plant will address the issue ...Maybe the rest will follow..
Yeah...I know It's real iffy!!!


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

moore said:


> If one plant will address the issue ...Maybe the rest will follow..
> Yeah...I know It's real iffy!!!


 He forgets to mention the part about" additional steps needed" to finish board. He mentions the problem and that he is aware of it. He mentions the "additional steps needed" and that he is aware of that but yet no talk of $$$$. I would bet those plants machines are running as cheaply as possible and will only get CHEAPER... Its a numbers game with the bigboys. I would be telling them to hook me up:yes: race tickets,trip for 2 somewhere nice,a check... or how about an apology. It sickens me when I read those type of BULLCHIT letters:furious:.


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

chris said:


> He forgets to mention the part about" additional steps needed" to finish board. He mentions the problem and that he is aware of it. He mentions the "additional steps needed" and that he is aware of that but yet no talk of $$$$. I would bet those plants machines are running as cheaply as possible and will only get CHEAPER... Its a numbers game with the bigboys. I would be telling them to hook me up:yes: race tickets,trip for 2 somewhere nice,a check... or how about an apology. It sickens me when I read those type of BULLCHIT letters:furious:.


That's more or less what it is. 
They're saying, thank you for voicing your concerns. We've taken note of them.
Now F&ck you!
But they're saying it in a nice way :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

This is how the seams should look! ct... n/g board grid marks..


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