# What's wrong with my touch ups?



## Leoricsbride (Mar 16, 2013)

Hey guys! Got a problem here

For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up... 

I was working with another taper who was using the same tint and he had no problem. So it's not the tint. I've tried using thin and thick mub but it makes no difference. I've also tried using less tint but I still got this problem :S

Anybody knows what I could be doing wrong?

Thanks!


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Leoricsbride said:


> Hey guys! Got a problem here
> 
> For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up...
> 
> ...


Touch up and then sand!!!


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

well, sounds like the tint your using is changing the texture of your mud, so try not to use too much tint.

I use blue chalk if needed (chalk line powder, don't use red), but even the chalk can cause the same problem. Trick is not to use too much. Make your mixture a very lite blue, not a very dark blue.


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

touch up after prime.... problem solved :yes:


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## Leoricsbride (Mar 16, 2013)

2buckcanuck said:


> well, sounds like the tint your using is changing the texture of your mud, so try not to use too much tint.
> 
> I use blue chalk if needed (chalk line powder, don't use red), but even the chalk can cause the same problem. Trick is not to use too much. Make your mixture a very lite blue, not a very dark blue.


I'll try it again with even less tint then I guess. I've been waiting for primer since my last mess up like Thefinisher suggested



thefinisher said:


> touch up after prime.... problem solved :yes:


The problem is that I've got too many touch ups and the painters don't like that ^^


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Leoricsbride said:


> Hey guys! Got a problem here
> 
> For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up...
> 
> ...


What mud are you using?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Leoricsbride said:


> The problem is that I've got too many touch ups and the painters don't like that ^^


Actually, Mountain man does have a point......

Go around with a light before you sand. Look for any lines or pin holes in your work, anything that can be deemed taper error. Find them before dust fills them. If your getting errors from sanding ?????????? then stop doing that:furious:

You want to eliminate anything that could be a possible taping error. If your painters are nagging about nicks and dings, tell them to get stuffed, that's their problem, not yours:yes:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Leoricsbride said:


> Hey guys! Got a problem here
> 
> For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up...
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are describing "onion skinning", the way I avoid it is spray the surrounding area with water first, that seems to soften or reactivate the existing topcoat, then when you touch up it's more like fresh over fresh so there should be no blending in problems when sanding.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> Sounds like you are describing "onion skinning", the way I avoid it is spray the surrounding area with water first, that seems to soften or reactivate the existing topcoat, then when you touch up it's more like fresh over fresh so there should be no blending in problems when sanding.


Now that right there belongs in tips of the trade. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

I thought touch ups were a painters problem.


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I thought touch ups were a painters problem.


Music to my ears, a true craftsman!:thumbsup:


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Leoricsbride said:


> Hey guys! Got a problem here
> 
> For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up...
> 
> ...


 Never touched up nothing in all my taping days!!:blink:
After i leave a house its up 2 the painter 2 sort anything:thumbsup:


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

VANMAN said:


> Never touched up nothing in all my taping days!!:blink:
> After i leave a house its up 2 the painter 2 sort anything:thumbsup:


God I wish we had it like that :yes:.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

Using a color additive or not touchups can be a pain if not done right. We do go through after finish sand for all ours. I've used never-miss, chalk, but usually use nothing. Verdicts still out for me about never-miss, some of my guys think it's easier to sand the touchups but I haven't really noticed a difference.

Thing is be sure to keep all edges pulled ass tight, and when you go to sand them have enough lighting to see if you killed the edge enough without "humping" the edges.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

The problem is that I've got too many touch ups and the painters don't like that ^^[/QUOTE]

this is the problem right here. i'm not trying to be an ass but i don't usually have more than a few touch ups per room and they are usually so slight i know no one will see them. i've seen crews that must have thirty touch ups per room and bad ones too. you may as well just put a third coat on at that rate. when i do have to touch up i make sure not to skim the touch up tight for two reasons. firstly because you will compress the mud and make a harder area to sand on top of a uniform second coat thus the edges becoming worse not better. second, if the touch up has any depth to it, one skim will shrink too much and you will still see the defect.
my first effort would be to have less touch ups. one way or another more time needs to be taken to eliminate them.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

thefinisher said:


> touch up after prime.... problem solved :yes:


i see how this system works in your situation pointing up after your crews but i HATE touching up after prime. that's two more trips to any job than i ever plan on taking. mud does not go over primer as easy as fresh board. too many passes to eliminate fisheyes. thick, well mixed mud helps.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Different batches of mud have different amounts of water, and therefore different densities. Could be you are touching up with a heavier/denser mix, than what you used for skimming. try touching up with the same mud. I seem to remember a discussion on this a while back. However, it was probably a thread that went off topic, so good luck finding it!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

don t use tint, just pencil em


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I have been using ez sand 45 for my touch ups. Its a different color then USG green top. For the rooms that are dark I just mark them with blue painters tape. I hate searching for them and I have a crew so theres no excuse for them not to see it. Small touch up small piece of tape. Large touch up bigger piece of tape.


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

So you're using greentop for finish coat and 45 hotmud for touchups?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I thought touch ups were a painters problem.


Come to Canada worky, our painters feel their above touch ups:furious:

combine these 4 pictures together, and that's what our painters think they are:yes:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Philma Crevices said:


> So you're using greentop for finish coat and 45 hotmud for touchups?


 Yup. After i have sanded. I dont really have much for touch ups. Dings , dents and flaws in the rock. Once I have sanded i expect to be getting a check and dont want my GCs to have any excuse to not pay me. Plus I dont plan on making an extra trip to come back and sand.


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## Ezock (Jul 4, 2012)

What I find helps is to use a sanding sponge with a medium and fine side. First go over the edges gently with the medium side then finish it off with the fine to remove scratches. And I will always grab a fresh sponge to do touch-ups because have found a used sponge will very often give me that same issue.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I sanded out a spec today around 6000 bf...DURING the sand I hit a few scratches and dents ..3 way touch ups ..I cut it tight with thin mud . no going back to sand. I kick a 500 watt around on my block and skim so sand day can be a breeze . If i get called back after prime /paint someone moved a box or stepped through a ceiling.


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

i use red food coloring, for vtouch up. course im kinda blind..... then i go in(this is for remodles mind you, and sand and spray the wall stains with kilz. course you guys are doing levAL 4 ? IT AINT BRAIN salad surgery. LEVAL 5 is


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## Leoricsbride (Mar 16, 2013)

so the trick is not to have any touch ups I guess ^^ but it's totally impossible if you are doing commercial site. This site where I'm working at is stupid. They keep adding bulkheads, new walls, cutting the drywall, etc. and everybody is banging and scratching my walls it's ridiculous. and since the primer is not done I'm still responsible to fix every ding and ****.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Leoricsbride said:


> so the trick is not to have any touch ups I guess ^^ but it's totally impossible if you are doing commercial site. This site where I'm working at is stupid. They keep adding bulkheads, new walls, cutting the drywall, etc. and everybody is banging and scratching my walls it's ridiculous. and since the primer is not done I'm still responsible to fix every ding and ****.


 Dont be afraid to stick up for yourself. i dont fix other trades mishaps and screwups unless i get a signed ticket. I dont count new walls, bulkheads or damage as touch ups. If your at the point where you are all sanded and they are still adding more sheetrock and cutting out holes you are being taken advantage of. insist on all sheetrock being completed before you start. If not thats called an extra and should be on a backcharge slip.


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

Leoricsbride said:


> so the trick is not to have any touch ups I guess ^^ but it's totally impossible if you are doing commercial site. This site where I'm working at is stupid. They keep adding bulkheads, new walls, cutting the drywall, etc. and everybody is banging and scratching my walls it's ridiculous. and since the primer is not done I'm still responsible to fix every ding and ****.


What type of mud are you using? Not to bash USG, but their mud will not sand at the same rate between layers sometimes. Can you just get pre-mix tinted mud in your area? Otherwise F-it and throw some blue chalk in, or pencil in the patch like others have said.:jester:


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

Leoricsbride said:


> so the trick is not to have any touch ups I guess ^^ but it's totally impossible if you are doing commercial site. This site where I'm working at is stupid. They keep adding bulkheads, new walls, cutting the drywall, etc. and everybody is banging and scratching my walls it's ridiculous. and since the primer is not done I'm still responsible to fix every ding and ****.


i get where you are coming from. i am on a commercial site and it sounds the exact same as where i am working. what mud are you coating with? if you are already using CGC green box then there will be no softer mud you can find to touch up with. try coating with all purpose and touch up with CGC green lite finish. also just experiment with the different methods people have suggested until you find what works for you. it does not sound like the tint is the problem i think maybe the touch ups are getting skimmed too tight and compressing the edge like i mentioned before. we are in the same region as far as brands of mud are concerned.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

What does joe from trim tex use? I noticed he uses some type of yellow tint in the order book. I have some Mod homes where the ceiling joints are humped out and are showing after its primed. I was thinking of adding a tint so the HO would be able to see how much crap i have fixed. I usually use chalk or food coloring, but i was just wondering what else there is. I used to hate mods but i found a new company thats been paying me $42 an hour cash. I even bought a 20" advanced knife for the marriage butt seams. Some take 5 or 6 coats to level them but at that price its not such a pain in the ass.


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## sdrdrywall (Sep 4, 2010)

That's nevermiss tint really good stuff


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

if you go to home depot ask for concrete color just a dip of the corner of you knife in the cap of the bottle and into a pan mix, stuff lasted me 3 years one 10 buck bottle, gave plenty of tincher bottles away also, finally lost the bottle i had:yes:


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

boco said:


> Dont be afraid to stick up for yourself. i dont fix other trades mishaps and screwups unless i get a signed ticket. I dont count new walls, bulkheads or damage as touch ups. If your at the point where you are all sanded and they are still adding more sheetrock and cutting out holes you are being taken advantage of. insist on all sheetrock being completed before you start. If not thats called an extra and should be on a backcharge slip.


That's pretty much how I feel about It!...more work..more money.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

moore said:


> That's pretty much how I feel about It!...more work..more money.


Thats Moe work Moe money


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

I have found that touch up after prime is the only way to let your sins hide. Touch ups before final sand is okay to do now and then. But I found any touch up done after you finish sand is the worst thing one can do, doesn't seem to matter what mud is used by my experience. It layers and blows through, and you have to coat your joint all over to hide it. Nah-uh. Time is money.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

The simplest ifx might be to use a softer mud to do the touch ups with and tint that.

That way a light sand won't affect the original coat.

I just use the same mud myself untinted and use a little piece of blue masking tape and stick that next to it, I've never see tinted mud, I'm colour blind and forgetful as hell so its masking tape for me, can't help but not see it.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

The simplest ifx might be to use a softer mud to do the touch ups with and tint that.

That way a light sand won't affect the original coat.

I just use the same mud myself untinted and use a little piece of blue masking tape and stick that next to it, I've never see tinted mud, I'm colour blind and forgetful as hell so its masking tape for me, can't help but not see it.

????double post... apologies....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Bevelation said:


> I have found that touch up after prime is the only way to let your sins hide. Touch ups before final sand is okay to do now and then. But I found any touch up done after you finish sand is the worst thing one can do, doesn't seem to matter what mud is used by my experience. It layers and blows through, and you have to coat your joint all over to hide it. Nah-uh. Time is money.


I half to agree mud star.:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Everyone has a good point, But ive found its just the mud, All purpose has glue, Its the glue level in the mud thats doing it, One nz made mud we have is a reall shocker for it, Dare touch that up bare and you have a problem, Other muds dont do it, The USG midweight being one. A lite mud thats topcoat only might work but i havent tryed it.

And go get one of those small plastic bottles 100ml or so with a cap and a drip hole, Take it to the paint shop and ask them to fill it with paint tinter of whatever colour you want, I use a deep yellow colour, Then you can tint your mud, It dosnt seem to affect sanding but i usually try and light check after priming and touch up then, If that cant be done then light check before sanding early in the morn on daylight when its darker, you see everything then.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> One nz made mud we have is a reall shocker for it, Dare touch that



Promix all purpose was a buggar for doing that, it didn't always behave like that though, I've stopped using it. 


The problem with some muds is that when you apply a very thin touch up coat they tend to POLISH on, this polished coat is harder than the unpolished mud around it and under it. Villaboard finishing compound is the worst for it.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Stopper said:


> Promix all purpose was a buggar for doing that, it didn't always behave like that though, I've stopped using it.
> 
> 
> The problem with some muds is that when you apply a very thin touch up coat they tend to POLISH on, this polished coat is harder than the unpolished mud around it and under it. Villaboard finishing compound is the worst for it.


So is plus 4, Its really bad for onion skinning/layering etc, Thats what i use to use, Now im on the multi yellow bucket and im really happy with it, Holds corner tapes well, Nice through the tools, nice to pc or hand sand, Not to soft not to hard, It doesnt seem to onion skin and you can touch up with it, Really good all rounder and surprisingly doesnt bubble up much over paint.

What are you using now?? Im tradeset 90ing the beads and flats first coat though, Multi corners tape and top.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

cazna said:


> What are you using now?? Im tradeset 90ing the beads and flats first coat though, Multi corners tape and top.


 I'm using the Yellow Multi to tape fill and second coat after pre filling with Tradeset 90, and I tape the corners with it too, but then I top coat with the Green heavy weight Trade finish. The Green heavy weight stuff is the only stuff I use though my angle heads too.
I go round though and put all my beads on with T90 and run about a trowel length of joins or corners off those beads before I start taping, I know its a lot of pissing about but I don't want setting compounds going over air dried and I don't like putting beads on with air dried compounds.

I'm finally figuring out what my problem is with that damn Bazooka after watching 2Bucks videos, he warns not to get mud on the chain. Well when I first got that Bazooka I tried it out on a few small jobs, and of course didn't have time to get it really messy and it worked well, but as soon as I tried to tackle a whole house with it it all turned to pooh, was dragging the tap a lot and I found it almost impossible to manually wind the cable up , and I assumed it was because the piston in the tube was seizing.
But on this last house I made sure to keep the tube lubed, and although I managed to tape it up fine the cable drum still seized up to the point where I could barely turn it by hand. So I'll assume its the chain getting ****ty, next time I'll keep a eye on it to rule it out. Got a very big house coming up so don't want any issues.

I hadn't used it in months, and on this last job I put it down next to my mud pump while I primed the pump, well I gave it one pump too many and sent a blob of mud flying onto my bazooka all over the tape guide and chain !!:furious:  not a good start. 

I didn't bother using it to tape the corners and vowed never to use it again and was gong to sell it on trademe, but not long after I started taping corners with my banjo I realised how fricking slow a banjo is compared to a Bazooka, So I'll persevere. 

I've still got a long way to go before I can go as fast as the pro's though...as it is I can easily under cut other finishers in my town and still make good money so can't complain


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Sounds like your giving it good go anyway, Took me a while to figure out the zook, Now i just use it for corners as i want tradeset for taping and a homax does it well. I dont use a zook much but if i know im using it the next day then the night before i will spray it up with lanox, And up the tube then leave it head down in a empty paint pot over night, Next day shes good to go, If any mud get on it then it wont stick, Or just a hose off and its gone.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Stopper, if your mud is drying up that hard on the chain, you need to let it sit in a bucket of water when you aren't running. Keeps all that mud wet. We tape all flats, take a break, the taper head is soaking at this time. When we start angles, the head gets scrubbed. A crummy head while running angles will cause you grief. If it gets crusty while running angles we'll scrub it again.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

fr8train said:


> Stopper, if your mud is drying up that hard on the chain, you need to let it sit in a bucket of water when you aren't running. Keeps all that mud wet. We tape all flats, take a break, the taper head is soaking at this time. When we start angles, the head gets scrubbed. A crummy head while running angles will cause you grief. If it gets crusty while running angles we'll scrub it again.


To be honest I wasn't paying much attention to the chain when I was using it, it wasn't till after I got home and watched a few of 2Bucks videos and saw him mention "not getting mud on the chain" that I thought that that might be my problem. I rule the tube out as the plunger was sliding nice and free, I kept a wet rag stuffed in the end of the zooka to keep it moist.



cazna said:


> t if i know im using it the next day then the night before i will spray it up with lanox, .


Thanks I'll try that. :thumbup: I've ordered some St Johns Wort too


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## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

a friend of mine in whitefish, crawled up a latter and paced a drywall booger out of his nose onto a nail. so, whats the point


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## mudslingr (Jul 18, 2010)

:lol: You crack me up harvey ! Got any video ? :lol:


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

Leoricsbride said:


> Hey guys! Got a problem here
> 
> For some reason I've been having lots of trouble with my touch ups after my final sanding. I mix my mud with professional tint from the supplier. The problem is that when I sand the touch ups, my sponge doesn't sand the tinted mud but it sands the skim coat around it... leaving a bigger touch up...
> 
> ...


 Having the same problem but with out the tint.Using certainteed mud and it acts like bond over mud,cant sand the touch up without sanding the finish coat.


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## Toontowntaper (Dec 16, 2012)

Touch ups after prime helps eliminate those problems ... Once the primer is on you have a hard surface over the walls you really only can sand back down to paint unless you're really sanding hard... Then the painter just spot primes and you're good to go


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## MagicCityDrywall (Oct 10, 2013)

after your skim coat sets up, depending on climate/temp go through and touch it up when its stick tacky, on any finish we always go through and spot all the corner bead, butts, angles and seems like a screw, basically crossing anything off and just pull everything tight, like a screw as stated before. This eliminates pinholes and dust filled gouges you might not see otherwise. I use tint also in my mud, not never miss but a different product we came up with ourself, not chalk or anything like that, and I can use red color to tape, skim, touchups texture, whichever step its is and it does NOT bleed through the primer. Chalk has a tendency to change the porosity of the mud and can cause problems later on, so stay away from that, and I don't use the tint to find touchups, I mix it in every box of mud I apply, because its brightens the day !


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

MagicCityDrywall said:


> after your skim coat sets up, depending on climate/temp go through and touch it up when its stick tacky, on any finish we always go through and spot all the corner bead, butts, angles and seems like a screw, basically crossing anything off and just pull everything tight, like a screw as stated before. This eliminates pinholes and dust filled gouges you might not see otherwise. I use tint also in my mud, not never miss but a different product we came up with ourself, not chalk or anything like that, and I can use red color to tape, skim, touchups texture, whichever step its is and it does NOT bleed through the primer. Chalk has a tendency to change the porosity of the mud and can cause problems later on, so stay away from that, and I don't use the tint to find touchups, I mix it in every box of mud I apply, because its brightens the day !


MagicCityDrywall rocks


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## D A Drywall (May 4, 2013)

Magic what problems does chalk cause and when. I just started using chalk for touch- up mud on advise from another taper. You have me worried now


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## thefinisher (Sep 2, 2011)

Have yet to have chalk come through with over a thousand jobs?


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

thefinisher said:


> Have yet to have chalk come through with over a thousand jobs?


I have yet to add chalk to my mud period!


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## MagicCityDrywall (Oct 10, 2013)

I never said anything about chalk coming through,but I've seen it happen myself, maybe the guilty party used an excessive amount, but it has null advantages when adding it to drywall mud besides leaving something behind for different materials NOT to bond well with. How much testing have you done with chalkline and the different aspects of mud, primer, paints, lacquers, acrylics, latex's oil bases?


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

MagicCityDrywall said:


> I never said anything about chalk coming through,but I've seen it happen myself, maybe the guilty party used an excessive amount, but it has null advantages when adding it to drywall mud besides leaving something behind for different materials NOT to bond well with. How much testing have you done with chalkline and the different aspects of mud, primer, paints, lacquers, acrylics, latex's oil bases?


 I recently use the Dewalt blue chalk. It is bolder/ darker than Ervin chalk. I have always used blue and never had any problems with bleeding through.


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## kartracer_99 (Mar 10, 2014)

I used to have this same problem. Touch ups not sanding out no matter how tight I feathered them. Then I realized it was actually worse the tighter I put it on. Thats when it dawned on me to try leaving the edges a little heavier.. and voila my touch ups sand out perfectly now. It seems contrary to logic but it works


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

kartracer_99 said:


> I used to have this same problem. Touch ups not sanding out no matter how tight I feathered them. Then I realized it was actually worse the tighter I put it on. Thats when it dawned on me to try leaving the edges a little heavier.. and voila my touch ups sand out perfectly now. It seems contrary to logic but it works


There's gotta be something there to sand. Same problem as pulling a coat too tight.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

If your touching up after sanding maybe try wiping dust off area first. You can try a rag, paint brush or even blower on shop vac.


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