# Thinking Out Loud



## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

For a while now I have been thinking about trying my hand at doing some freelance take-off work. I think it would be best to direct my services to small contractors who do not have enough business to support a full time estimator. I have been contacted a couple of times to do some "part-time" work but usually they want me to work for a percentage of after completion profits so they do not have to pay me for estimates that do not end in a contract. That does not thrill me. As soon as I mention an hourly rate payable on delivery of an estimate successful or not.....end of conversation.

Honestly, I do not care to do the actual estimate at least in the beginning. What I am thinking about is just digital (OST or PlanSwift) quantity survey's: LF of walls by detail or wall type, trim counts, SF of ceilings by type etc. so that a guy could sit down with it and put together his actual labor & materials cost estimate to fit his needs.

The problem is very few would be willing to pay me a decent hourly rate for the take-off. So, to combat this I have been thinking about not doing them for specific clients. Instead do the take-off and hope to sell two or three copies of it at a reduced rate. Lets say I want to make $35.00 an hour. I spend 2 hours doing a take-off so I would like $70.00 for it. So instead of selling one for $70.00 try to sell three for $25.00 or five for $15.00 if I see enough interest.

Set myself up a website where they could look down a list, pick out what looks interesting and buy the take-off download with a credit card. Maybe even some sort of simple weekly newsletter with a list of available and soon to be available take-offs.

May work....may not but it sounds interesting to me....any thoughts here would be greatly appreciated. I am also going to talk with a couple of small contractors I know and pick their brain a bit.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

JDPugh said:


> For a while now I have been thinking about trying my hand at doing some freelance take-off work. I think it would be best to direct my services to small contractors who do not have enough business to support a full time estimator. I have been contacted a couple of times to do some "part-time" work but usually they want me to work for a percentage of after completion profits so they do not have to pay me for estimates that do not end in a contract. That does not thrill me. As soon as I mention an hourly rate payable on delivery of an estimate successful or not.....end of conversation.
> 
> Honestly, I do not care to do the actual estimate at least in the beginning. What I am thinking about is just digital (OST or PlanSwift) quantity survey's: LF of walls by detail or wall type, trim counts, SF of ceilings by type etc. so that a guy could sit down with it and put together his actual labor & materials cost estimate to fit his needs.
> 
> ...


Most Contractors can do themselves what your offering.


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## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

moore said:


> Most Contractors can do themselves what your offering.


Yes they can, but there are many out there who need estimating help but can't afford to hire a full time estimator and that is where I hope to fit in.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

JDPugh said:


> Yes they can, but there are many out there who need estimating help but can't afford to hire a full time estimator and that is where I hope to fit in.


Truck ass contractors ? Good luck with that!


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## MrWillys (Mar 10, 2014)

Apply with the corporate owned players like KHSS or Anning and Johnson.


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## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

MrWillys said:


> Apply with the corporate owned players like KHSS or Anning and Johnson.


LOL guys, I think we have two different ideas of what a small "commercial contractor" is. Generally speaking what I am looking at are one and two man operations with 10-50 men in the field on multiple projects. Here a commercial drywall contractor would do be expected to include Light Gauge Framing, Drywall, ACT, FRP and some also include EIFS. Average project size over $50,0000 per project. Trust me, there are many of them out there in my area.

I have worked for corporate player, been there done that, tackled some pretty fair size projects with them and on my own. I like sleeping at night now more than I did as a young drywall baron. Don't need the stress anymore. Way too many sleepless nights worrying about job cost to please the boss or meeting that weekly payroll for 40 men or the paying for material they installed that week....no more of that for me as I said.....been there done that :thumbsup:

But like I have said, I do miss the business and just maybe I can help a young drywall baron avoid some of those sleepless nights....just a thought.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

If you were in Australia and worked in metric I'd be keen, I'm to busy to do quotes and tenders. and lost contacts because I can't get around to doing it sometimes. I'm slowly teaching my fiancé how to use plan swift so she can do easy homes but it's hard for the more In depth commercial jobs we do.
I need to stay on tools and manage jobs and have someone do takeoffs for me 


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## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

There ya go....that's my point. To capture more profits you need to be out on the job as much as possible. At the same time you also need to keep the quotes going out to keep a backlog of work and to keep your best clients from going elsewhere or new clients coming back. It may not add up to a huge amount on any one job, but over a years time it can amount to fairly nice chunk of change.


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## Aussiecontractor (Oct 6, 2014)

I have tried this with some one tho and he could not keep up with deadlines so had to part ways


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## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

johnmeto said:


> Contractors are doing this on there own and mostly are getting combined with agencies that are providing the good commissions too. What you will offer?


I am not sure I understand the question ?


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## silb (Jan 11, 2017)

You always want to work to your own pace in these situations


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## AaronFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

I mean its worth a shot if you wanna try it


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## AaronFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

Its an idea. You have nothing but your spare time invested here, so why not give it a shot? If it doesn't work then no warm no foul, but if it does then welcome to the gig economy lol. Be aware that anything in the freelance world nowadays will make you have to lower your overall price from normal though. Freelancers are kinda overloaded with supply right now causing a lower price.

AaronFalls44 - Idaho Carpet
www.idahocarpetandrestoration.com


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## endo_alley_revisited (Aug 9, 2016)

moore said:


> Most Contractors can do themselves what your offering.


One problem with being an estimator for hire is that you are probably not getting much feedback from the guys in the field. If a contractor uses your estimate, gets the job, and then looses money executing the work, who is liable for the loss? If a client can't make money using your bid because the price was too low then what good is your proposal? If on the other hand a client looses job awards because your bid price is too high then once again what good is the proposal that you supply? It seems that you need constant feedback from field workers, managers, and general contractors to fine tune one's bid proposals. And constant feedback on labor productivity for various operations and assemblies that you provide. I don't know how you get that feedback when you are not integrated into a company.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

It’s a good day, to have a good day. 


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## JDPugh (Oct 26, 2015)

endo_alley_revisited said:


> One problem with being an estimator for hire is that you are probably not getting much feedback from the guys in the field. If a contractor uses your estimate, gets the job, and then looses money executing the work, who is liable for the loss? If a client can't make money using your bid because the price was too low then what good is your proposal? If on the other hand a client looses job awards because your bid price is too high then once again what good is the proposal that you supply? It seems that you need constant feedback from field workers, managers, and general contractors to fine tune one's bid proposals. And constant feedback on labor productivity for various operations and assemblies that you provide. I don't know how you get that feedback when you are not integrated into a company.


I totally agree and for that reason, I would only be providing takeoff quantities as one price and possibly a summary of estimated material and labor quantities ready to be priced for an additional charge. What I am looking to do is help the smaller guys who are running jobs all day and trying to estimate new work by night.


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