# Columbia angle head not filling heavy enough



## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

For a while I had been using the same 3" Columbia to run my tapes and coat them. I had noticed in some spots that tapes were flashing, and I had to be really careful with sanding.

So I went out and got a 3.5" Columbia, hoping to alleviate the problem, but it seems to coat just as thinly as the 3".

I wet tape by hand with a Super Taper, and I make sure I have lots of mud behind my tape for the angles. I make sure they're centered, and one thing that has helped a little is that I've been rolling harder. Still I get a lot of flashing bevels. Any ideas? I really don't like using these when I have to spend twice that time hand coating afterwards.

For a couple years, too, 90% of the rock I tape is GP Toughrock, and some of that stuff has funny deep bevels.

I remember using a Northstar 3.5" with a company that supplied their own machines and it coated angles nicely.

Any ideas? Are there adjustments I can make on the head? I use it with a 7" no name angle box. The mud I use is somewhat translucent, and it's mixed down just before it gets soupy. I can still coat by hand without slop. About 1.5 quart water to one bucket.


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## Muddauber (Jan 26, 2008)

How old is your roller?

The rollers do wear over time and you may be ready for a replacement.:thumbsup:


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## Bevelation (Dec 20, 2008)

No, it's not the roller. I don't think it has 35 rolls of tape on it.

I looked up and found some adjustments on the head that I can try. Looks like I can adjust the main and side blades.


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

The rock does have alot to do with that, as well as framing. We went through about 7 houses in a row thinking the plow was bad (and too lazy to fix or adjust it) and then all of a sudden it "worked again" the framing was suspect, but that proved it! All different gc's and different framers! That's just the norm anymore, with lowball bidding and crap materials.


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

I have been paying a premium for usg rock, and thinking about how I can save money and compete, and the last job I did had some menards rock already there, the gc told us to use it (along with our usg) and the difference is night and day! recesses are deep, crooked, and very dense to screw through, and brittle, and the sheets are "pre scuffed" so the trim carpenters don't hafta feel obligated to do as much damage as they normally do.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

I'd first make sure all your tools are adjusted properly. I had a problem with my 3.5 recently and ended up having to adjust the blades back to flat(hold a knife up against them to a light and make sure there's no gap). I've heard angle boxes require alot of pressure to get the mud to flow - this same pressure would take up all the flex out of your angle head. Could be your springs need more spring too. 

I've had good luck using an applicator tube instead of the angle box. Holds lots of mud and you can change how much pressure your putting into the corner. Adding soap to the mud helps it flow easier with less pressure too.

The super taper leaves less mud behind the tape than a bazooka in general so you really need to be generous on your first coat. When I used a super taper I'd flush after rolling then do 2 more coats and sometimes even run the sides again with a 5".

Good luck,
D'S


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

D's said:


> I've had good luck using an applicator tube instead of the angle box. Holds lots of mud and you can change how much pressure your putting into the corner. Adding soap to the mud helps it flow easier with less pressure too.
> 
> The super taper leaves less mud behind the tape than a bazooka in general so you really need to be generous on your first coat. When I used a super taper I'd flush after rolling then do 2 more coats and sometimes even run the sides again with a 5".
> 
> ...


You are using better than ever stuff? Have you ever used production tools? That system just looks difficult to me. The pressure exerted is nowhere near the same, the skim boxes you just lean in to, bte you have to push with one hand while trying to steady with the other! What else have you tried? Just curious.


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

D's said:


> When I used a super taper I'd flush after rolling then do 2 more coats and sometimes even run the sides again with a 5".
> 
> Good luck,
> D'S


And THAT is alot of work. And time. And time = MONEY.


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## D's (Jan 15, 2009)

Hey Wallers,

Time is money and that way took way too much time, hence the investment in a bazooka and proper angle heads. Took some time to build up the funds and to have enough work to make it worthwhile though.

Right now I use Northstar angle heads and a BTE applicator tube(a long one for rooms and a short one for closets). I bazooka the tape, roll, do first coat right away with a 2.5 and topping compound, then once more with the 3.5 once dry and get a great fill and finish. I have not used the angle box so cannot say which is easier or gives better results. I can say that you do have to lean into the angle box which in my mind would limit how much mud you could apply per pass. With the applicator tube you can control how much mud is being squeezed out and how much pressure into the corner at the same time(bit of a pec workout). I'd love to try an angle box to compare.

I just bought the Apla-tech CFS system so can't wait to see how it runs the corners!

D'S


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## Wallers (Dec 7, 2008)

D's, Y'know I shouldn't judge, I have not tried bte! I would love a chance to try everything made especially apla tech, but the market here is all tapetech. I have Northstar myself, but have sold the boxes and use tapetech. NOW.... As far as angles go, I use my 3.5 to tape, and then a 3 to glaze, and that does a very nice job, but as we 3rd skim we also stripe our angles. I use a 5" knife, and stripe the angle so the mud hits the edge of the tape and comes out an inch and a half or so from the edge that the plow left. That is USUALLY the recipe for a great angle with no touchups! The 3.5 and then 3 makes the most sense to me because both plows are larger (wider) than the recess edge on the rock. Let me know how you like the apla tools! I have a mudrunner, I don't really care for it the mud has to be just perfect to flow out of the tool, and then there is no control of flow as with apla. The result is alot of potholes in your angles, and that would be okay on tops, to fill the recess, BUT it won't push mud fast enough to fill a 3"! So I am stuck using a 2 IF I decide to run it. It would probably be a better tool for commercial work.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

hey there, just a thought on doin angles(corners) with your tools.I am running a full set of columbias and find the following to be very quick and easy, whilst giving an almost perfect finish.I tape in using the taper and roll and then flush with the 2.5 " head.The compound I am using is the usg taping compound, mixed fairly wet.If you roll vigorously and your corners are square, or near to, this gives you a good first coat. This is a very hard and strong compound that gives me a strong and crack free taping job. It does shrink some , but I get around this buy applying a second coat of usg mid-weight all-purpose-topping when dry. I am using the 2.5" inch head on my corner box and this gives me an immaculate base which to top over.An average house(4 beds, study, 2 living area, ensuites, bath and closets and kitchen) takes me around an hour maybe to second coat all the corners.I then top the corners using the same compound and my 3.5" head on my corner box and get a great finish. I have always finished board by using a larger tool for each progressive coat than the previous coat as this gives a better "feathering"finish to my mind. You dont start off coating your joints with your largest box and work down do you? All in all I love my corner box and angle heads and I cant really see any other technique or equipment being better or faster ...Hope this gives some insite into doing corners


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

croozer said:


> hey there, just a thought on doin angles(corners) with your tools.I am running a full set of columbias and find the following to be very quick and easy, whilst giving an almost perfect finish.I tape in using the taper and roll and then flush with the 2.5 " head.The compound I am using is the usg taping compound, mixed fairly wet.If you roll vigorously and your corners are square, or near to, this gives you a good first coat. This is a very hard and strong compound that gives me a strong and crack free taping job. It does shrink some , but I get around this buy applying a second coat of usg mid-weight all-purpose-topping when dry. I am using the 2.5" inch head on my corner box and this gives me an immaculate base which to top over.An average house(4 beds, study, 2 living area, ensuites, bath and closets and kitchen) takes me around an hour maybe to second coat all the corners.I then top the corners using the same compound and my 3.5" head on my corner box and get a great finish. I have always finished board by using a larger tool for each progressive coat than the previous coat as this gives a better "feathering"finish to my mind. You dont start off coating your joints with your largest box and work down do you? All in all I love my corner box and angle heads and I cant really see any other technique or equipment being better or faster ...Hope this gives some insite into doing corners


Gidday old fella . You are right, I get a lot of the same problem and the extra coat with an anglebox doesn't take much longer, makes sanding quicker with less touch-ups afterwards as well.
You'll have to drop in again next time you're passing thru and check out the work I've done inside the barn/house, I had to take heaps of time off work to get the bulk of the conversion done before I got hit over the head with a rolling pin.:blink:


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## mudslingercor (Jul 2, 2009)

I have a extention angle box that has sat in my garage for years. I run bazooka then roll flush with 3.5 head . Quick rough sand, then tube applicator and flush again with 3.5. I use a can-am flusher head and run two different ones. The first is the sacrificial head that takes all the screw hits. I also file them down periodically to make them last longer. It is very rare that I see a flash or tape showing if so the wall is out of square.


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## croozer (Jun 7, 2009)

I dont know too much about can-am or other techniques, but I do know that gaps in the corners, even small ones will swallow up some of your mud when taping/flushing, leaving the tape under-coated, thus requiring another coat before applying the top/finishing coat.Out of square corners are another major reason for problems with taping/flushing.
As for problems using your angle-box-corner head i find that once again out of square corners, especially on the top angle is a major hassle, but overall, mud thickness is the key to using these tools efficiently.I have the mud at a thickness where it is just dripping out of the head, dripping,not running as you carry the tool to the wall.Keep every thing, including yourself square to the wall/angle and apply an even prssure and away you go. Be careful not to wet the mix down too much as you will find it runs every where and takes time to clean up...all the best


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