# finishing in freezing weather



## eastex1963

So, I've got to float(bed) a house. Long story short.....the temperature here will be in the upper twenties the morning following the float day. I use usg blue mud to float. I usually have to give it two days to dry. It won't be completely dry on the night/morning that the temp will be in the twenties. House is NOT heated. Question is: should i wait till the next day when temps will be in the mid to upper 30's. Needing some more input to ease my mind. Thanks guys. 

p.s. I had a float freeze on a house once....wasn't pretty.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

eastex1963 said:


> So, I've got to float(bed) a house. Long story short.....the temperature here will be in the upper twenties the morning following the float day. I use usg blue mud to float. I usually have to give it two days to dry. It won't be completely dry on the night/morning that the temp will be in the twenties. House is NOT heated. Question is: should i wait till the next day when temps will be in the mid to upper 30's. Needing some more input to ease my mind. Thanks guys.
> 
> p.s. I had a float freeze on a house once....wasn't pretty.


eastex....

man buddy i feel for you. im a drywall subcontractor and we're obviously facing the same challenges with this cold weather (20s - 40s), just like every year 


hate it. KILLS my production.

anyways, its always a balancing act for me.......and riding the fine line of whether we should heat the house (cooking the drywall which i dont prefer) ourselves with heat fans, or just wait it out....

a portion of my business is dedicated to production homes...which have tight schedules of course and lower quality....so i dont have a choice BUT to heat the houses (close all windows, and move from room to room....pay someone 8 bucks an hour for the whole day to do this).

however, the main portion of my business is large, custom homes and small commercial buildings....and i basically tell the contractor that if they want a good job on a 1-3 million dollar home or office bldg....a weeks worth extra of drying time isnt gonna kill anyone...unless they want us to go back in 6 mos to a year (which i will charge them for if they dont want to wait a week more in drying).

so eastex, i dont think i was that much help......but theres literally nothing us drywall guys can do but explain this upfront to the client/builder. it's the nature of the beast, not really anything we can do.

although im sure there are users on here who think theyre drywall gods and will say otherwise.

anyways, on all my contracts and proposals, i always state that when our 'winter schedule' is in effect, we need at a minimum 48 hrs PER coat of necessary drying time. if in any case other than that, we are not responsible for anything under a 48 hour (or subcontractors discretion only) time frame. and any decent drywall contractor is going to do a level 4.......as in three separate coats.

roughly, what i find has worked.......is tell the customer/builder that one week per 1000 sf of floor footage is needed.

for example, i just finished a 5000 sf house.....so that equals 5 weeks........theoretically 1 week hanging......2 weeks finishing.......1 week texture....1 week miscellaneous.

this always seems to work for me......although 60% of the time, you will get done sooner than what i described above. but if you state it out ahead of time, it always protects you.....i KNOW a 5000 sf house, i can get done (even in this winter schedule) within 3.5 weeks, but i'll always buy myself as much time as possible, because its construction and ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

a job that takes me 2 days, i'll tell the contractor 7 days -- JUST to be safe.


again, i know i wasnt that much help as far as drying times.....but its just the way the ball rolls with drywall.



good luck man.


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## S&SDRYWALL

at least 55degrees or no mud/tape goes on the way, no heater, no work. Simple, One way to do it, the right way. Floating and it freezing before it dries=uh oh


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## Bevelation

^ Agreed.
Nothing sucks more than cold weather and insufficient heat.


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## joe soboleski

Point blank!You can't finish in temp. lower than 32f.Its simple physics,unless your going for the frezze dryed look.


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT

http://www.bpb-na.com/us/english/fin...t Compound.pdf


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## Tim0282

If they can't heat the house, I don't do the job. No more questions. I will furnish an electric furnace and hook it up if the gas company hasn't come. But they have to have permanent heat when I leave. It will ruin the house if it is under fifty degrees in there. Some contractors are tight wads. I get tired of this argument. I don't work for those guys anymore. It gets cold every year about this time. They have to have heat in every house sooner or later. What in the world do they expect?


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## [email protected]

Matter should be between drywall contractor & GC/Builder. Shouldn't be your problem, but don,t put on the mud w/o heat in place, temp or otherwise


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Tim0282 said:


> If they can't heat the house, I don't do the job. No more questions. I will furnish an electric furnace and hook it up if the gas company hasn't come. But they have to have permanent heat when I leave. It will ruin the house if it is under fifty degrees in there. Some contractors are tight wads. I get tired of this argument. I don't work for those guys anymore. It gets cold every year about this time. They have to have heat in every house sooner or later. What in the world do they expect?


Exactly.

Heat, (or at least a constant temperature) is VERY important not to just wallboard and mud compound, but more importantly to the wood lumber -- of course im talking about structures such as homes. this doesnt apply to tiny patchjobs of course.

Tim is exactly right ...and this is the problem my company is dealing with right now, at this very moment.

WOOD FRAMING WILL EXPAND AND CONTRACT WITH CHANGES IN TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY. DEPENDING ON THE TIME OF THE YEAR, WOOD DRIES OUT, SHRINKS, OR ABSORBS MOISTURE AND EXPANDS. THIS CAN LEAD TO AN ASSORTMANT OF DRYWALL ISSUES SUCH AS NAIL POPS, CENTERLINE CRACKING, VISIBLE JOINTS AND RIDGING.

_bottomline, generals (and homeowners) NEED to be more educated when it comes to drywall and lumber._ 

Im sick of sounding like im making excuses for my company, when the problem is not our workmanship, but the lumber expanding and contracting due to weather extremities.

ive now put an addendum on my contracts that the owner/builder has to sign making them aware of the issue -- and that if they dont provide the proper heating and temperature control, that cracking MAY occur in the future. this addendum relieves me from hearing the general or owner on my back for 'taking forever' on the drywall. i put that in extreme weather under 50 degrees, EACH COAT has to allow at a MINIMUM 48 hrs to dry and that a constant temperature of 60-65 degrees at least is recommended throughout the house, BEFORE and AFTER drywall is installed.

EDUCATE yourself and others. us drywall guys NEED to stick together.

http://www.gypsum.org/pdf/236-2000b.pdf

http://www.hamiltonmaterials.com/CrackingInfo/PDF/CenterlineCeilingCracking.pdf

http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/b367f464b7768010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0

these articles are gold. you guys will either already know about these issues, or may be new to it.......eitherway, EDUCATE yourself more, and pass these around.

as a drywall subcontractor, im getting SICK of being blamed for issues that are out of our control.


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## Tim0282

Amen Brother!! Preach it!
It does wear a person down. Always at the beginning of the winter.
I tell them the house has to maintain at least 60 degrees for at least 30 days
after I am done. This allows some time for the paint to cure also. Read the can, it says 30 days to cure paint. Same goes for drywall mud. Let's see, pay 300.00 for some heat and keep from ruining a 10,000.00 drywall job. Sort of a toss up, I know.


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## Custom Drywall Svc.

Tim0282 said:


> Amen Brother!! Preach it!
> It does wear a person down. Always at the beginning of the winter.
> I tell them the house has to maintain at least 60 degrees for at least 30 days
> after I am done. This allows some time for the paint to cure also. Read the can, it says 30 days to cure paint. Same goes for drywall mud. Let's see, pay 300.00 for some heat and keep from ruining a 10,000.00 drywall job. Sort of a toss up, I know.


 
SERIOUSLY!!!!

READ the freakin box and manufacturer recomendations people! manufacturers don't put critical information on their products because it makes them feel good! they do it to PROTECT themselves.....just as us drywall subcontractors have to do also! Theres a rhyme and reason for everything people.


Again, tim is absolutely right.....the cost of heating the house is NOTHING compared to the future problems the owner/contractor may have.

i HATE HATE HATE this time of year because of all the hassle we have to deal with...its almost not worth it.

again, the best you can do is educate builders and homeowners. bottomline.

production homes, i dont have as much trouble, because thats what it is......a 'production home'......central heating/air gets into the house pretty quick because of production.....

but man, we all know custom homes can sit there on a lot framed for nearly 6 mos to an entire year easily.....exposed to all sorts of extremities.

EDUCATE!


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT

I left a thermometer on top of a bucket of primer/surfacer(with the instructions facing whomever had to read the temp) the room was 39 F...not to mention the drafts from the windows he had removed the hardware from (he being the carpenter) who is trying to supplement his income/helper by spraying doors and trim. I walked (that day) couldn't paint. I got blasphemed six ways from Sunday come the next day. You can send a JackAss to college but he is still going to crap in the street. I am basically beating a dead horse here because there are guys who will do it (wrong) and the mud will crack and then what? Drywaller I may be but I am not exempt of integity. Besides just because they did it wrong for 20 years does that make it right? Jenn


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## Apple24

S&SDRYWALL said:


> at least 55degrees or no mud/tape goes on the way, no heater, no work. Simple, One way to do it, the right way. Floating and it freezing before it dries=uh oh


 I agree when in doubt read the fine print or the bold instructions on the box theyre ya greesy green burrito.


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## Apple24

eastex1963 said:


> So, I've got to float(bed) a house. Long story short.....the temperature here will be in the upper twenties the morning following the float day. I use usg blue mud to float. I usually have to give it two days to dry. It won't be completely dry on the night/morning that the temp will be in the twenties. House is NOT heated. Question is: should i wait till the next day when temps will be in the mid to upper 30's. Needing some more input to ease my mind. Thanks guys.
> 
> p.s. I had a float freeze on a house once....wasn't pretty.


 Ya seem like a smart guy, try putting atifreeze in place of water. Maybe it wont freeze. :whistling2::surrender: JK


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## eastex1963

umm that's ok...think i'll pass on the anti-freeze....ur joking, right?


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## Whitey97

obviously he's joking. Just use a couple space heaters such as the ones shown in other threads. make sure the doors are shut up tight and hope the house isn't too drafty. We do that up nort here in the spring and fall. when there isn't much for other sources of heat. Believe me, they take the temp furnaces out as soon as they can, cheap fockers!


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## eastex1963

oh, btw, finished the house.....didn't float the day before a hard freeze. I don't think i mentioned that the house was hung by the homeowner....BIG mistake... He didn't stagger ANY joints and had racked butt joints. Meaning the butts weren't tight. 3/4 to nothing cracks. There were 5 butts that were literally 28 feet long........sheesh. I told him he was gonna have trouble outta those later...settling, movement...etc. Sure enough, one puckered three weeks after I finished. I went back and fixed it. Told him I wasn't coming back again for free. He hasn't called back. Been a month or so now. We'll see. I would have gotten back here sooner, but forgot my damned password...lol. Been too busy and tired to search for it till today...Ha.

Also, I know there are alot of other threads on this topic. But, work is starting to pick back up a little here in East Texas. Hope it stays that way...wishful thinkin maybe.


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## Tim0282

Gotta love those DIYers, don't ya?


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## Whitey97

Oh please, I can't wait till I get one of those jobs this year. Wait... I just did one! lol

A guys called me on a garage to finish, his woodshop. Told me he had ran all of the tape. All I had to do was finish it. I show up, and the tape was ran dry. So I fixed as much as possible, being I was paid hourly to do it. Finished it up. Told me how great it looked and how fast I was blah blah blah... you know the drill, I'm sure you've all heard it. Anyways, He called me a couple days ago. "hey there bud, I have some cracks in the drywall, can you come fix it? (for free)" my answer, "nope, but I'll charge you hourly" haven't heard anything back yet. lol


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## Tim0282

Were you able to sleep after you told him you would charge him to fix the cracks???


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## Whitey97

Honest to God, he just called me today, and said "Sorry I missed you when you came over, I've been in Australia for the last 3 weeks" enough said?


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## eastex1963

i would hope he slept like a baby..............just like i did


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## Whitey97

you're damn right. And I'll laugh tomorrow after I see him and tell him, "You should have just let me do it all" and he'll say, "I know"


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## Afforddrywallman

joe soboleski said:


> Point blank!You can't finish in temp. lower than 32f.Its simple physics,unless your going for the frezze dryed look.


Agreed 100 percent


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## moore

It can be done...I've been doing it for years


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## gn87berner

keep drywalled walls at 56 or higher even after finish if you want it to hold together...usg handbook. heat and cold = expansion, contraction = beaded joints. don't tape on drywall under this temp and then keep at least at this temp. asphalt roads will crack under similar phenomena how on earth would you think drywall would hold up?


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## Mudstar

moore said:


> It can be done...I've been doing it for years


:yes:


gn87berner said:


> keep drywalled walls at 56 or higher even after finish if you want it to hold together...usg handbook. heat and cold = expansion, contraction = beaded joints. don't tape on drywall under this temp and then keep at least at this temp. asphalt roads will crack under similar phenomena how on earth would you think drywall would hold up?


:yes:


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## gn87berner

usg handbook..? back when you had to read the printed word...where I live on the front range in CO. they build apts with a hall so the wind doesnt blow in when you open your door and the halls are unheated...all the joints are beaded or popped. if you do any work on vaca property where the heat is left off...same thing. SO.....tell your customers you need heat and then keep the building somewhat heated. why do good work to see it go to waste?


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## thefinisher

That is why all my houses are getting taped with durabond right now. The most important part is the mud behind the tape. Use a setting mud during the day while it is a bit warmer and it will be ok over night if it sets up.


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## fr8train

I feel ya. Job we just finished was a pain. First day, no heat. It was 10 degrees F or lower the night before. Mud was frozen solid. heated with top hat propane heaters. Here's the uninsulated garages


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## fr8train

Some more


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## mudslingr

Holy sh1t and wtf ! I can see that from over here.

At least a couple days of solid heat will get you back to where you started. :whistling2:

No big deal. :blink:


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## fr8train

mudslingr said:


> Holy sh1t and wtf ! I can see that from over here.
> 
> At least a couple days of solid heat will get you back to where you started. :whistling2:
> 
> No big deal. :blink:


Nothing a few hours with the torpedo heater didn't temporarily fix. Gets the pine tree warranty. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## moore

Propane heat? That's a water hose.


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## moore

fr8train said:


> Some more


are those ceilings insulated?


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## fr8train

moore said:


> are those ceilings insulated?


Nope

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## P.E.I.Taper

fr8train said:


> Nope
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Runaway!


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## fr8train

I did

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## moore

fr8train said:


> Nope
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Most of the homes here get blown . I really push for the ceilings to get blown just as soon as the hangers walk out . Even in the warmer months . 

That propane added to that situation IMO....You'd be better off with no heat at all.


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## fr8train

Just the garage lid wasn't blown. The house was. The pics are from the garage


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## moore

I do this chit every winter ...All Winter l long! 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvUC3li3U_4


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## moore

This one was done with a temp pole but no heat ...except for my blowers . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wuWLhPIXNI


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## gazman

What are those rooms where the ceilings are battened, is that for a timber ceiling? If so funny how they batten it out for timber but make you fix straight to the trusses.


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## moore

gazman said:


> What are those rooms where the ceilings are battened, is that for a timber ceiling? If so funny how they batten it out for timber but make you fix straight to the trusses.


The Cathedral gets v groove pine and I think the basement ceiling gets v groove pine too.. The basement ceilings are the floor joist . Factory floor joist system.


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## moore

we'll see what happens !!:whistling2:

tape and block coat with 90 min. I hope It holds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKILKro7reY


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## fr8train

Need to whip your builders into shape! The heat should be on!

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## moore

fr8train said:


> Need to whip your builders into shape! The heat should be on!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


It not so much the builders..it's the power co. The heat pump was ready to go on that home. They've been waiting on the power co. For two months. The builder even had the trench dug for them.


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