# Drywalling in Mongolia - Best system for small housing.



## jonnybleu (Nov 25, 2012)

Hey everyone,

After reading through several dozen pages of forum talk (wow those fiber mesh vs paper threads are pretty intense) I decided to post my questions here as I have a bit of a unique situation and need some advice.

I'm involved in finding solutions for small family home building in Mongolia. Crazy right? Well it's crazier than you think. Quick background on the building situation here. Vast majority of single family homes are build with cinder block, a combination of cinder block and brick, log, square log covered in brick or any combination of those listed materials. Most houses are very cold (we get 90s in the summer and -25 to -40 (coldest) in the winter) and poorly insulated without running water and outdoor latrines. However, the building market is growing fast and to promote that, the government has recently added wood frame standards (and maybe steel frame) to its legal building code (although most places are not inspected or built to any code). With some building experience I've found myself in a position of coming up with better building solutions (read common sense standard building solutions in Western nations) that are affordable, well insulated, long lasting, and can be done with materials readily available here. Big challenge.

That much said, I could talk for hours about the challenges of building here but will stick to drywall for this post.

There's no professional drywallers here. I'm sure you can find some talented guys. But it's very rare. Materials are also a pain, all the drywall is from china (seems ok but definitely on the lower quality end), mud mixes are hard to find, and special products for corners? Forget it. Special tools are hard to come by too.

I've seen guy "mud" (with plaster) with no tape. Tape with wide masking tape. Tape with fiber mesh and elmer's glue (yea....). People are putting up drywall with staple guns with tiny staples that hardly make it into the studs behind, and the list goes on... Oh and don't forget that before painting the ENTIRE wall gets plastered and sanded because of course you can't paint on top of drywall paper!

The good thing is we're talking very small houses. Most under 1000sq feet and many of them down to 500sq feet.

My goal is this. To come up with, and teach, a quick and easy way of taping and mudding that can be learned and put into practice for all these budding home builders.

I don't mind importing products including tape, helpful application tools, possibly even mud mixtures. I'm sure if I figure out the labels I can get most of the stuff from China but from a quality standpoint I think at least tape and tools I'd bring in from the US.

So, can you guys help me dream up the best system for this? Key points are:

1) Ease of tape installation (any quality self-adhesive stuff out there? or is this a big no-no? seems like anyone could learn self-adhesive =) ).

2) Ease of outer and inner corner installation. Remember, no pros, this has gotta be easy to learn and replicate after learning. Pre-creased products, special corner products etc... go a long way to ease things.

3) Inexpensive but good tools to make the job easier. I'll probably get each learner their own set of helpful tools. Give me your suggestions.

4) Feel free to name brands, products, etc... that I should consider bringing into the country. I have great air/surface shipping options.

Paper tape is readily available, fiber mesh as well. I've seen a type of PVC outer corner product with fiberglass mesh edges that gets stapled down and then plastered over. Various spatula, trowels, etc... are available but are more general use as opposed to drywall/mud specific.

Considering the quality of the mudding/sanding I'm seeing as well please suggest options other than straight sandpaper sanding. I don't know much about wet sponge smoothing that I've read on here but it sounds like it could be nice for this situation. Name products please.

I suppose that's about it. Look forward to hearing your advice and suggestions. Just trying to put together an easily learnable system that I can teach and learners can take from there. But one that personally I can also use for small square footage jobs as of course it's needs to be faced differently than jobs many of you do where you're laying down hundreds if not thousands of feet of tape at a time.

Thanks!


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## Philma Crevices (Jan 28, 2012)

If I were in your position I'd think of hiring a drywall and finishing consultant/leadman for your venture over there. Getting the products and handing them to a bunch of "green" workers will give you many years of refining your processes, and numberous issues in your first years. Are you personaly to oversee the homebuilding in the area yourself? Also are you fluent in Mongolian? 

And... are there any sheep in Mongolia :whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Well to start with...........

Not to get into a paper vs me*h war, but paper tape is more DIY friendly. It is installed with ready mixed mud, ready mixed mud is in the name, day after day, when mixed in a bucket, can be used anytime. It's easy to sand, as long as it is dry.

Me*h is meant to be used with hotmuds (Hotmuds-powder mix that comes in bags, add water(sorta like cement). Speaking of cement, hotmud is more like it. Once mixed, you have time limits to get it on the wall. It could set up on you too fast, and depending on brand, be hard to sand. Better for pros, not DIY friendly.

Then there is fibafuse tape. It's in between Me*h and paper, very new product, so don't confuse it with the "M" tape, you can do your own Google research on it.

But here's my idea for you, since your saying they want the whole wall coated, since they think paint wont stick to paper. Go with rough/textured walls. Avoid smooth finished walls.

That way, you would only need basic hand taping tools, knives varying in sizes like 4,5,6 8,10,12 inches, and a mud pan. You could try hawk and trowel, but their not as DIY friendly. Toss in some sanding tools, even a hand mixer, which I show in a pic.

To prep the walls for a texture finish, you only half to apply the tape, then coat any flats or fasteners (fasteners being any corner bead, no-coat, screws, nails etc...). Then the sky is the limit for any texture design you use, and the methods you use to apply them. Expensive way would be a BASIC air compressor and hopper. Then there's brushes (check out stomp design) sponges, knives, etc and even paint rollers that will leave you designs.

Since your saying so many of the industry standards are new there, you might be the contractor that kicks off a new fad/niche in the market. Would be quick and efficient too, plus cost effective. Just tape and coat one day, then next day do texture design. Some of the texture designs, you can tint them with colour, so that takes care of the painting also.

here is a vid from Moose boy (PT) to apply tape with a slop bucket, it may help, go towards end of vid





So google DRYWALL TEXTURES (click images) if you like my idea, look for designs you like, and we will tell you how their done.

And if my idea works for you, I will send you my bank information, so you can deposit some money.......... partner:whistling2:


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

For the house sizes you're doing, and wanting to keep it simple enough yet productive enough, then except for the 42" applicator tube - Can-Am's is good quality, but I'd get a Columbia 42" one instead if possible, as it's smoother and easier operating - I'd consider this kit setup: http://www.canamtool.com/products/basic-tool-kit/ 

Columbia applicator tube: http://www.walltools.com/products/d.../columbia-taping-tools-compound-mud-tube.html

Don't know if I'd worry about getting their tool bag, either. But that's me and my situation. 

I'd also get a belt tape dispenser: http://www.walltools.com/products/d...e-reel-10-1-4-in-length-tr-25-wlb-41-001.html

With those, one could do smaller type houses quickly, and with good quality, while not needing as much tool learning curve. After that, you'd just need knives/pans, trowels/hawks, for coating.

A Super Taper, like the one in 2buck's posted video, or maybe a banjo, could be nice to have if want to speed up taping even more.
But the applicator tube and flat applicator already listed in the above kit can do a decent job of it. 

As for finishes, as they're level 5ing all their walls already before painting, I'm wondering if Never-Miss Final Coat could be a thought, which can be rolled on as well as sprayed on. Never used it myself, but am thinking to get some to try. Others on here who tried it said it did a great job. It also takes away need for priming. Some info:

http://paulatuberville.wix.com/never-miss#!about01

http://www.walltools.com/final-coat-ultra-white-gel-fc237.html

If sanding is an issue like you said, maybe sandpaper with a foam back could be a choice. Start with a backless paper to sand 1st coat(s) - to keep things flatter by better taking out coating humps - then sand final coat with a foam back paper, which is a little more forgiving when it comes to leaving paper edge scratches in finished product, and makes feathering in drywall mud edges a little easier.

For an all round good pole sander, Better Than Ever's hard to flip Super Sander works well: http://www.walltools.com/products/d...er-than-ever-super-sander-drywall-sander.html

If you'd want to order everything from one supplier, like Wall Tools whose site I linked mostly to, then instead of the Can-Am tool kit, they could make you up such a kit with other brands that are also of decent quality. Such as: http://www.walltools.com/products/drywall-tools/taping-systems.html

Regarding the various other optional tools shown there, I don't think I'd go beyond what's listed in the Can-Am kit. It should give you what you need well enough.

Stilts, to reach such as the ceiling efficiently, could also be good to think about getting(?) There's a few discussion threads on here about which ones are good, and which aren't.

After awhile, you could consider adding such as mud boxes, to speed up coating. Or you could get into them pretty much right away, as they would start paying for themselves right away. One Wall Tools basic setup: http://www.walltools.com/products/a...s/columbia-flat-box-combo-set-col-flat-1.html

Wall Tools, and All-Wall Tools, who some here also deal with, give a 10% discount if you tell them you're a DWT member from here.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I'll let these guys quibble over muds and tapes.

But, I'll say this: skip sanding altogether, teach them to scrape lap marks and touch-up high edges, and then go with a medium hand texture over the whole thing. Then, they'll feel like they've put material over the whole wall.......because they have.

If you're looking for interior "perfection", you should be looking for a ringer, as mentioned above. You would need a person that could come over and get people up to speed. That person would be able to line you out on the materials needed for their system, and help organize and train a staff/crew to either teach as needed or to perform the tasks. Sounds like a worthwhile investment if there's as much building going on as you're indicating.......

There's a lot to learn...I still learn every time I pick up a hawk/trowel/pan/knife.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 28, 2012)

Mongolian level 5?!? Lmao!!!


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## jonnybleu (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all your great responses. Will look it over and take it all into account. I like the textured wall ideas to get around the plastering the whole wall issue. Although I would prefer to get people to just stop doing that and just go ahead and paint the darn wall. Actually a lot of people do wallpaper here so I suppose a semi-ok tape and mud + wallpaper could solve the issues of green mudders. =) Personally not a huge fan of wallpaper but we've got heavy Russian and Chinese influence here which makes for pretty interesting standard deco choices.

Biggest issue here is convincing builders that the way they have learned or think is right is probably not right. On a regular basis I see things like hot tar lined drinking water tanks, new houses with reflective insulation facing outwards on the outer walls but nothing on the inside (yea! reflect that warm sun away when it's 40 below out!) and many other issues. Pretty much every stage of building has issues. That's why I'm involved in the small housing stuff now. To take people through the process from beginning to end and try to teach solid basic practices that can replace the old ones.

I shouldn't worry anyways because a lot of people are starting to hang OSB panels on interior walls instead of drywall and then wallpapering over it because you can't "fall through" OSB like you can drywall. !?!?! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Gunna be fun. Thanks everyone!

PS - Steel framing is starting to appear on the market here. Anyone hung drywall on steed studs? How does it perform compared to wood?


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jonnybleu said:


> Thanks everyone for all your great responses. Will look it over and take it all into account. I like the textured wall ideas to get around the plastering the whole wall issue. Although I would prefer to get people to just stop doing that and just go ahead and paint the darn wall.


I'm thinking the roll on &/or spray on Final Finish from Never Miss could replace their believing the need for plastering whole walls. If you can convince them it's an acceptable alternative.

Maybe try to sell it as a 'next generation product' for finishing drywall?



Mountain Man said:


> Mongolian level 5?!? Lmao!!!


Yeah, maybe the 1st country with All drywall level 5ed, using plaster. Kind of thought that a little funny myself.


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## jonnybleu (Nov 25, 2012)

Yea there's a term here for that. "Shine teknoloji" and yup, just means "new technology!" I could become the drywall new technology guy. Instantly jumps you up the ladder. =)

I'll looking into those rollers and stuff. Do it once with a bunch of guys watching is usually good enough to get 'em talking.


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## JustMe (Apr 17, 2009)

jonnybleu said:


> Yea there's a term here for that. "Shine teknoloji" and yup, just means "new technology!" I could become the drywall new technology guy. Instantly jumps you up the ladder. =)
> 
> I'll looking into those rollers and stuff. Do it once with a bunch of guys watching is usually good enough to get 'em talking.


"Shine teknoloji" - I like that.

Thing will be to find new technology that well fits the situation.
Master of the obvious statement.

Regarding watching and getting them talking...... since angles will be a big part of the job when it comes to the houses it sounds like you're involved in doing, if you didn't already see it, here's a video 2buck put out on coating angles - using his sidekick 2buckjr. as a model - you could maybe use, which shows how tools in the Can-Am kit I'd listed can work. Their potential, once you get used to them. (Note the broken tube, so they had to use a pump to load it with mud, instead of just sucking the mud up out of the bucket with the tube. As 2buck has mentioned elsewhere, it's not a tube brand one would want.)
The corner mud applicator he's using to put on the mud can also be used to put on the corner tapes.


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