# How Many "Crossovers"?



## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

So how many guys stuck mostly,or totally, to hanging for years then decided to finish too? And a better question-is it completely insane to even think about it?:blink:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm one of them, I'm not even sure how it happened 
I know with the one DWC I have been with the last 7 years or so. I was doing both, but the one day the DWC said your drywall work sucks, but your taping is good......WTF. Now when he ask me to rock something, I remind him I suck.......remember:whistling2:

I still prefer the rock over the tape, but there are more work opportunities that come from taping. If I had it my way, I would rock for 3 months, then tape for three. Not keen on switching back and forth day to day.

They say tapers make more $$$$ but I'm not sure about that b/c.....
Drywall you stay more stationary on one job till it's done, I found you could make a lot more money rocking with a ton of work in front of you. Less overhead and travel time etc....... With taping you always have more than one job on the go, there's more overhead and travel time. There's a lot more politics and arguing with taping, more B.S.

They both have their pro's and con, but as one DWC I know once said " about 9 out of 10 rockers are good at their craft, While one out of a hundred tapers are any good. But when you find that one good taper, don't let him know he's good !!!!"


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

I am one as well - boarded for several years then finally figured out that taping (finishing) is where it is at. Running a bazooka or a box can have its moments of being a bit of a workout but not nearly as much as struggling with 5/8 12 footers on the lids. Getting older and smarter.

Oh did I mention that the Vancouver Canucks are one win away from a Stanley Cup.


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys. I've been hanging for about 25 years and did some finishing by hand way back when I started....hated it....but I see guys running machines and it looks like a whole new ball game,probably about the same as the difference between hanging all nail on/keyhole compared to screwgun/router I imagine,and finishers don't seem quite as miserable now. Since I've done just about everything else in my life azzbackwards I thought maybe I should at least look into it. I'm really sick of being beat out on jobs because I don't go package deal. I can get a finisher interested if it's a house I'm going to hang but they turn thier nose up at the small jobs..basements,additions,etc...I figured I could start out on small jobs and see if I'm a total disaster...I managed to keep busy subbing from bigger outfits for years and now I'm paying for my laziness. I'm a nitpicking meticulous nightmare hanger so I'm pretty sure I could finish my own work IF I am competent with a machine at all.


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## cdwoodcox (Jan 3, 2011)

evolve991 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I've been hanging for about 25 years and did some finishing by hand way back when I started....hated it....but I see guys running machines and it looks like a whole new ball game,probably about the same as the difference between hanging all nail on/keyhole compared to screwgun/router I imagine,and finishers don't seem quite as miserable now. Since I've done just about everything else in my life azzbackwards I thought maybe I should at least look into it. I'm really sick of being beat out on jobs because I don't go package deal. I can get a finisher interested if it's a house I'm going to hang but they turn thier nose up at the small jobs..basements,additions,etc...I figured I could start out on small jobs and see if I'm a total disaster...I managed to keep busy subbing from bigger outfits for years and now I'm paying for my laziness. I'm a nitpicking meticulous nightmare hanger so I'm pretty sure I could finish my own work IF I am competent with a machine at all.


 Sounds like you have a good plan start off finishing small jobs and work your way into bigger jobs. You probably have a reputation as a good hanger just show them you can finish just as good and you have double the work. And you're body will thank you for the break of slinging rock all day.


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## M T Buckets Painting (Nov 27, 2010)

I actually went in the reverse order, I obviously started painting. I then learned how to finish by hand. Later the tools came. Then I got a couple of jobs that included the hanging. I know that I am not a hanger! Every time that I hang, I lose my arse.

I also went in reverse in the carpentry trade. For a while I was a trim carpenter, then went to framing. About a year of each was enough for me. I also roofed for a brief period. I hate roofing more than I hate hanging rock.:yes:

I guess that you could say that I start at the top of the hill and slowly roll down.:blink:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I know your a top notch hanger evolve by your post ,, THANK YOU for not breaking the seams near the cans,, and floating the plates ,and floor joist in stairwells. My old man taught me hanging first. He would not let me touch a roll of tape till I had the hanging down. He said a good tape coat starts with the hanging. A good block coat depends on the tape coat,, A good skim depends on the block coat. ,,and a good skim means less sanding. I do hope it works for you dude,, You got the best machine men in the world here,, can't see how you can go wrong. :thumbsup:


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Moore I don't do it to be "THE BEST" I do it because people deserve thier moneys worth. My old bosses' philosophies were "F the Finisher" but I believed giving a superior product would both get me more work and keep my name clear years later when tape starts peeling around windows,doors and highly visible areas ...or rather when my work DOESN'T do that....and my competitors does....

MT you sound alot like me  I've been labor for almost every trade,did framing (wood) almost enough to call myself a framer but just not quite enough to feel right about it...I really hate the "Fake it til ya make it" approach,I don't like BS-ing the HO and using thier home as a guinea pig which is why I want to get a good handle on Finishing before charging people for it....not sure how I'll DO that but....

CD My rep is good and bad....it's usually along the lines of "Excellent hangers but partner/helpers can be loose cannons" :yes: Sadly that's one reason I have sat on my butt alot for the last 2 years...I figure if I can hang AND finish I can "lose" some of that rep by finishing by myself or even pull in a finisher who has skills but needs a partner. I'm really tired of being knocked back down like a newbie every time I get on a roll.


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## Brian S (Apr 17, 2011)

I have crossed from my original trade, a "Brickie" to a Boarder, picked up Taping, but never done it as my main job, picked up framing (metal Stud) did that for 7 or 8 yrs, picking up MF Ceilings at the same time, and then did Lay in grid Suspended Ceilings

The phrase that springs to mind is "Jack of all, Master of........well I can't remember the rest:whistling2:

Now with the business going, I'm doing all of the above plus painting, floor and wall tiling, in between I have broom up.................... and I'm also the "teaboy"
All this is not single handed, we have a *very good* team working for us

Gotta blow our trumpet a bit, http://www.bksconstruction.co.uk/
Not up to date though


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

evolve991 said:


> Thanks Moore I don't do it to be "THE BEST" I do it because people deserve thier moneys worth. My old bosses' philosophies were "F the Finisher" but I believed giving a superior product would both get me more work and keep my name clear years later when tape starts peeling around windows,doors and highly visible areas ...or rather when my work DOESN'T do that....and my competitors does....
> 
> MT you sound alot like me  I've been labor for almost every trade,did framing (wood) almost enough to call myself a framer but just not quite enough to feel right about it...I really hate the "Fake it til ya make it" approach,I don't like BS-ing the HO and using thier home as a guinea pig which is why I want to get a good handle on Finishing before charging people for it....not sure how I'll DO that but....
> 
> CD My rep is good and bad....it's usually along the lines of "Excellent hangers but partner/helpers can be loose cannons" :yes: Sadly that's one reason I have sat on my butt alot for the last 2 years...I figure if I can hang AND finish I can "lose" some of that rep by finishing by myself or even pull in a finisher who has skills but needs a partner. I'm really tired of being knocked back down like a newbie every time I get on a roll.


I've never been a big fan of "fake it till you make it" either, that's why I choose to be up-front with clients and tell them that I'm not a professional "insert title here", but since that's the case I will charge them less for the work that falls outside of my area of expertise. Then it becomes win-win...they save money and I gain experience that will make me more marketable in the future (which as we all know is a crap shoot at this point). I went backwards...started as a finisher and went to hanging....boy do the tapers love me! Now I do it all, and with the carpentry background thrown in I get GCs saying things like "you're not the average drywaller are you? Thanks for picking up and pointing out the things that got missed/are problem areas/etc...most guys just know how to screw the sheet on the wall". While the "Jack of all trades..." has a ring of truth to it, in this market you've got to be flexible to keep working all the time, and if your personality is there then homeowners like having less people in their house and will stick with the guy who shows up on time, is neat, respectful, competent and above all has good communication. I had a builder call me the other day and these are his exact words: "The last client you did work for raved about you and now their daughter wants us to do her basement...specifically requesting that you work on it". That's A-OK in my book:thumbsup:


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Slim it feels awesome to be requested doesn't it? A DWC we subbed from actually lost work because we were requested and the doof sent in his other crew...the one with 4 rotating newbies(teenagers) and a 'boss' hanger who looked/acted like the Slap Chop guy...I've always tried to maintain a customer friendly look and attitude,something my big little brother sometimes shot to h*ll with his Layne Staley look, and I try to never ever be late or a no-show and if it isnt avoidable I call them and be straight with them about it. "Not your average drywaller"... we used to have a 6 foot level and an 11 pound maul hammer....we got alot of questions about those not to mention our catspaws,framing hammers and other tools. I've also shocked a few GCs by knowing about burning basement slabs to a shine,the fall on a garage slab,grade heights on the yard/the leadwalk/the street,utility tie-ins and alot of other tidbits I've picked up over years of doing almost every labor job in construction. Sometimes I feel like it's a huge cosmic joke that I have all this semi professional knowledge yet I'm still living like that punk kid that just married the hottie and has not a clue about the shark pool he's diving into.....:blink: I think it's time to do SOMEthing even if it's WRONG


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

evolve991 said:


> Slim it feels awesome to be requested doesn't it? A DWC we subbed from actually lost work because we were requested and the doof sent in his other crew...the one with 4 rotating newbies(teenagers) and a 'boss' hanger who looked/acted like the Slap Chop guy...I've always tried to maintain a customer friendly look and attitude,something my big little brother sometimes shot to h*ll with his Layne Staley look, and I try to never ever be late or a no-show and if it isnt avoidable I call them and be straight with them about it. "Not your average drywaller"... we used to have a 6 foot level and an 11 pound maul hammer....we got alot of questions about those not to mention our catspaws,framing hammers and other tools. I've also shocked a few GCs by knowing about burning basement slabs to a shine,the fall on a garage slab,grade heights on the yard/the leadwalk/the street,utility tie-ins and alot of other tidbits I've picked up over years of doing almost every labor job in construction. Sometimes I feel like it's a huge cosmic joke that I have all this semi professional knowledge yet I'm still living like that punk kid that just married the hottie and has not a clue about the shark pool he's diving into.....:blink: I think it's time to do SOMEthing even if it's WRONG


Yessir, I like being requested:thumbup: That foot in the door equals more $$$. When your contractors get to know you and want you specifically they are willing to pay a little bit more because they know you're rock solid and will keep them rolling (and save them money on the bad sh!t that can go wrong when the subs aren't paying attention). I had a carpenter say the other day "Dude, you're the first drywaller I've ever seen use a Multi-master".....it's a must for patches and demo:thumbsup: Sometimes I wish I was still living like a punk kid, but now I feel like more of an old man:wheelchair::laughing: With the hanging board and the kids' baseball games and the uncomfortable bed I'm a walking ache!


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## 800PoundGuerrilla (Nov 24, 2013)

Expanding your market while gaining market share requires understanding and appreciating who comes before you and who comes after you. I started out doing acoustical ceilings where straight vs crooked walls is made evident by comparison to linear grid. I learned how to frame straight walls then to frame for ease of hanging, I learned how to hang. Then, to assure that what I hung was easy to finish, I learned how to finish ... then painting ... then trim, doors, countertops and cabinets. All of this happened in the very beginning of my "construction experience". Knowing each made me better at all ... the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Keep learning and doing and learning and doing and learning ... courage to competency to confidence to competitive to cash.


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

yeah you can change over to finish work, it will only make you that much better on hanging, most hangers don't know correct layout, they just hang the board without checking the pattern.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I hung for years before I learned anything bout finishing. You already know what good finishing looks like, you already know that you have to do the job right, you already have the right attitude for it,,,,,,, just go do it!:thumbsup:

Heck, they can't kill ya and eat ya,, thats even against the law in Canada !!


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