# My sweet "roller"



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm in the mood for some abuse, so I thought I would post a photo of my roller.....


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

And here's a photo of my awesome glazer....


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

....


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank you... thank you.... you are one of a kind slim ,, and I'm not being a smarta$$ .. hand finishing is still an art.. [DIEING BREED] machines have been around since the early 60s ,, yet 60 percent of drywall finishing NATIONWIDE is DONE BY HAND! Hey don't get me wrong.. I'm starting with the cp tubes ,,and on from there, .. just saying ,,,, hand finish Is the only TRUE finish !!!
OK,, GO!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mudslinger said:


> Honestly I'm ashamed of you, because you completely missed out on on the opportunity to flip everyone off. You have dishonored this website, and every drywaller around the world.:furious:


HEY that's my screensaver!!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Mudslinger said:


> Honestly I'm ashamed of you, because you completely missed out on on the opportunity to flip everyone off. You have dishonored this website, and every drywaller around the world.:furious:


Dammit! And I use my middle finger half the time! I'm ashamed of me too!




moore said:


> Thank you... thank you.... you are one of a kind slim ,, and I'm not being a smarta$$ .. hand finishing is still an art.. [DIEING BREED] machines have been around since the early 60s ,, yet 60 percent of drywall finishing NATIONWIDE is DONE BY HAND! Hey don't get me wrong.. I'm starting with the cp tubes ,,and on from there, .. just saying ,,,, hand finish Is the only TRUE finish !!!
> OK,, GO!


Thanks moore! I'll admit, I get a little bummed when a 3600 sq. ft. job takes most of a day just to tape angles (skylights, cathedrals, closets galore, etc.), but I like that my angles need very little in the way of coating after. Since this job is getting a near solid-coat texture, I'm just going to slide the tape edges so they don't show when texture shrinks a little. I worked with the tools for a few years, and I don't think I'm being dishonest or exaggerating when I say that they don't do as clean a job as I do by hand. Sure, they're fast and consistent but for really good clean work you still have to hand finish it. I may have to suck it up and buy a banjo though (if the work keeps rolling in like this) :laughing:

The funny thing is that at a buck a foot (hang and finish...including materials) I'm still going to make wages. Granted, it would be nice to make a sizable profit but I can't complain....at least I'm working, and for guys who want _me _specifically. This is the first job for this builder, so even if I have to take it in the shorts a little, it's going to be perfect.....and then the price will go up:thumbup:


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## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm in the mood for some abuse, so I thought I would post a photo of my roller.....


 
Whatever Floats your Boat


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

moore said:


> Thank you... thank you.... you are one of a kind slim ,, and I'm not being a smarta$$ .. hand finishing is still an art.. [DIEING BREED] machines have been around since the early 60s ,, yet 60 percent of drywall finishing NATIONWIDE is DONE BY HAND! Hey don't get me wrong.. I'm starting with the cp tubes ,,and on from there, .. just saying ,,,, hand finish Is the only TRUE finish !!!
> OK,, GO!


 
Me first Me first, Cough Cough Bull$hit Cough Cough

You havent even done the machines moore yet you say hand finish is the only finish, Ive done hand finish for ten years and then moved onto machines, A big reason was cause i was bored to tears, so trust me, its not, Once you start swinging the CP around you will wake up.

True, you need to know how to hand finish to make the tools work for you, But sorry slim, With respect, Your making like an ostrich and your heads in the sand, or you just love doing things the hard and slow way, Or maybe your not 30 yet.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

I think your hands may be bigger than little hands cazna:whistling2:

I got no problem with guys who tape by hand, a least their working and not collecting welfare:thumbup:

It's when a hand taper starts bashing a machine taper, saying by hand is better than machine, and that mesh is better than tape, thems fighting words


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

cazna said:


> True, you need to know how to hand finish to make the tools work for you, But sorry slim, With respect, Your making like an ostrich and your heads in the sand, or you just love doing things the hard and slow way, Or maybe your not 30 yet.


It's not that I wouldn't buy a set of tools Cazna, I've just never had the need. I went from being an employee machine taper to being a hanger to being a superintendent....then the bottom fell out of the market and I went to work as a carpenter for a large commercial outfit, then went to work for another taper with tools and now I find myself doing almost all my own work. The tools may be in my future if the work keeps up like this, but it's a lot of money up front, and I don't have it. Don't get me wrong, tools are good....believe me, if I had a bazooka and some angle tools yesterday, the job would be topped out today.



2buckcanuck said:


> It's when a hand taper starts bashing a machine taper, saying by hand is better than machine, and that mesh is better than tape, thems fighting words


I'm not bashing machine finishers, not at all. And I'm not saying mesh is better than tape. :whistling2: I use what I need to use to do the job, or what I have at my disposal. Maybe I just suck at running tools...they never give the finish I want. But gee whiz are they fast.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I think your hands may be bigger than little hands cazna:whistling2:
> 
> I got no problem with guys who tape by hand, a least their working and not collecting welfare:thumbup:
> 
> It's when a hand taper starts bashing a machine taper, saying by hand is better than machine, and that mesh is better than tape, thems fighting words


F mesh ... I'M just sayin in 1970 ,, the machines would be the end of hand finishing,,, didn't happen ,, hey guys I'm just glad my old man taught me this this trade by hand!!!! now I can go on from there... not bashing .. just stating a fact!I will go on to machines.. Just a matter of time. I have nubby fingers,,, but a 11''
foot size:whistling2:


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## drywall guy158 (Dec 31, 2009)

i'm right there with ya slim !!!:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> Thank you... thank you.... you are one of a kind slim ,, and I'm not being a smarta$$ .. hand finishing is still an art.. [DIEING BREED] machines have been around since the early 60s ,, yet 60 percent of drywall finishing NATIONWIDE is DONE BY HAND! Hey don't get me wrong.. I'm starting with the cp tubes ,,and on from there, .. just saying ,,,, hand finish Is the only TRUE finish !!!
> OK,, GO!


So 60% of the world is hand tapers, the other is machine, But the machine tapers get 95% of the work:thumbup:

I think everyone should know how to do things by hand, then over time, get machines if things are going good. I don't think any of us grew up saying "I'm going to grow up and be a taper some day" I think most of us fluked into it.
With me I left my step fathers construction company to go drywall with a DWC, I liked it, it was to be temporary with college and so forth blah blah blah......... then here I am taping:blink:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm in the mood for some abuse, so I thought I would post a photo of my roller.....


Would you pick your nose with that roller?:jester:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> Would you pick your nose with that roller?:jester:


That's the beauty of the tool, multi-use 
I can pick my nose or my my a$$, I can point at things, and I can wiggle it so my children know they're in trouble :laughing: Try _that_ with your can-am bazookjo automated thingerwhatsit!


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm in the mood for some *abuse*, so I thought I would post a photo of my roller.....


I was prepared to write a really scathing post, seing as you've asked for it, but I'll confine myself to simply saying that you probably have an obsessive personality, particularly when it comes to work, and that any new method which delivers something less perfect than your best work is allotted an unreasonably brief period in which to prove itself before invariably being discarded. This why you're still hand taping.

I invite you to recall your time learning the hand tools. They didn't deliver a perfect job on your first day, but you persevered. Same thing.

And it's REALLY time. This is not a young man's hand you've shown us, Slim. On some level, you know it's time. That's why you started this thread and why you have an interest in tools, even if you mask it with jokes and jibba jabba about hand skills.

Congratulations. Hand skills are essential and you've got 'em. Time for the next step. Your first purchase is a Homax banjo.


Edit: In b4 lead to water can't make drink.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

you can lead a hand taper to water, but you can't make him drink if he'd rather have a cold beer!

If the old ways are really better, how come you drive a pick-up instead of a horse and wagon????


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Jason said:


> I was prepared to write a really scathing post, seing as you've asked for it, but I'll confine myself to simply saying that you probably have an obsessive personality, particularly when it comes to work, and that any new method which delivers something less perfect than your best work is allotted an unreasonably brief period in which to prove itself before invariably being discarded. This why you're still hand taping.
> 
> I invite you to recall your time learning the hand tools. They didn't deliver a perfect job on your first day, but you persevered. Same thing.
> 
> ...


I invite _you_ to read all of the previous posts to see why I don't have auto tools....it's in there, and it has nothing to do with illusory hand-taping elitism. Honestly, I do not believe I suck with auto tools, and I think 5 years working them was enough to get the method right (although not long enough to be a master like everyone else who uses them) I will ask this question though, just to see what kind of response I get:

You're on a smooth-wall job, and you've encountered a less than favorable butt joint. Do you:

a) run a box on it 5 times and prime it heavy to see if it goes away?
b) notice that it's bad after first coat with a box and start the hand float to get it right?
c) ask someone who knows what they're doing to do it for you?:whistling2:

I'm not itching to run out and buy flat boxes, but angle tools and a taper would be really nice for the work I do. I joke about my angle tools (finger and a 5") because after a long day of taping angles I need to laugh at myself and my situation....not because I'm proud of how backwards I am.

Also, my hands are offended that you called them old! :laughing:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> you can lead a hand taper to water, but you can't make him drink if he'd rather have a cold beer!
> 
> If the old ways are really better, how come you drive a pick-up instead of a horse and wagon????


Hey, let's not confuse the issue....my horse pulls my truck because I'm saving the world by not buying gas (alright, gas prices are just too damn expensive!)


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I invite _you_ to read all of the previous posts to see why I don't have auto tools....it's in there, and it has nothing to do with illusory hand-taping elitism. Honestly, I do not believe I suck with auto tools, and I think 5 years working them was enough to get the method right (although not long enough to be a master like everyone else who uses them) I will ask this question though, just to see what kind of response I get:
> 
> You're on a smooth-wall job, and you've encountered a less than favorable butt joint. Do you:
> 
> ...


You forgot d) all of the above:jester:


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

....


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Mudslinger said:


> There's always e) tell them it adds character!


Something like "We allow imperfections in your wall surface as a statement to the dynamic nature of the world, and expression of the inherent flaws that permeates our lives" :confused1:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Inconsistent consistencies:whistling2:


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

SlimPickins said:


> I invite _you_ to read all of the previous posts to see why I don't have auto tools....it's in there, and it has nothing to do with illusory hand-taping elitism. Honestly, I do not believe I suck with auto tools, and I think 5 years working them was enough to get the method right (although not long enough to be a master like everyone else who uses them) I will ask this question though, just to see what kind of response I get:
> 
> You're on a smooth-wall job, and you've encountered a less than favorable butt joint. Do you:
> 
> ...


Haha, actually I hand finish all my butt joints. :whistling2: 

I'll 1st coat 'em with a box occasionally but almost always hand trowel, and always finish trowel, usually with an 18". 

Natually, hand tools provide a greater degree of control (Is THAT what you wanted to hear? ) so I favor them on trouble spots, butts, etc. They are faster and better on those portions which require the control that a trowel or knife affords, but boxes and angle tools make money and do the job just fine over 95% of it. 

We get boards to 6 meters so finishing butts is maybe 1 or 2% of job time. How that gets done shouldn't dictate how the rest gets done.

For the love of God man! Buy a Homax! They're less than $40 in the US!


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## jmr (Mar 22, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I'm in the mood for some abuse, so I thought I would post a photo of my roller.....


thats cool, but i'll be done coating my whole house while your still finishing your angles  just messin. 

hand coating is great if givin the time and money for it.. most areas of the industry won't allow for it, it only works in a niche.. like you said you haven't had the need to buy tools.. most do though.. most contractors around here would laugh you off the job if you told them it would be a week for finishing...

honestly though, i'd still choose machines over hand.. i can machine a whole house, and with all the time saved i'll go back and spend a little time fixing the tiny margin of detail that machines don't have over hand pulling.. 

i think most hand finishers have a bitter taste for machine tools because they haven't used proper working tools.. it takes some fine tuning and a few jobs worth of adjustments to make sure your tools are running properly.. my flat boxes are crowned so perfect that it would be stupid to try and pull flats by hand.. hell i'll still pull out my boxes for 10 sheets.
but like i said, lots of fine tuning.. but lots of time saved as well.. 

p.s. buying a corner roller would still be a great investment because it creases way better then a knife can..

much respect though...


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

2buckcanuck said:


> I think your hands may be bigger than little hands cazna:whistling2:
> 
> I got no problem with guys who tape by hand, a least their working and not collecting welfare
> 
> It's when a hand taper starts bashing a machine taper, saying by hand is better than machine, and that mesh is better than tape, thems fighting words


:notworthy::notworthy:OK,,, had a few two many ,,, and was feeling a bit cocky ........ No disrespect ,, oh and mesh sucks,,, If that helps me out any..cough ,, cough,, Thanks for all the info on the boxes cazna. I'll get there.money wise ,,, It may take a while....I feel ashamed .But,I'm still the best hand finisher on the east coast..


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

moore said:


> :notworthy::notworthy:OK,,, had a few two many ,,, and was feeling a bit cocky ........ No disrespect ,, oh and mesh sucks,,, If that helps me out any..cough ,, cough,, Thanks for all the info on the boxes cazna. I'll get there.money wise ,,, It may take a while....I feel ashamed .But,I'm still the best hand finisher on the east coast..


Hey, you should of seen the nasty post I tossed out at cazna when I was all drunk on here once

So how much more longer till you get the CP tube, we want to read the " MY god, why did I not get machines a long time ago ".....post


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Jason said:


> Haha, actually I hand finish all my butt joints.
> 
> I'll 1st coat 'em with a box occasionally but almost always hand trowel, and always finish trowel, usually with an 18".
> 
> ...


I'm going to skip the banjo and go straight for the throat (berzookum)  I've got a couple of larger jobs in the near future and I really don't feel like paying someone to string it for me.....that's MY money! 

I wasn't trying to get you to admit anything about your techniques, just pointing out that we all know tools are just the beginning of a good finish (unless you live in a knock-down market).

6 meter boards? Guess I wouldn't be hanging those by myself! :no:

I'm _almost_ glad I was hand finishing today with all the high shoulders 

I figure I only lost a day because of the angles, the house is skimmed after 4 days from starting, and in fact with all the rain we're having it probably wouldn't have been at skim if I hadn't used set mud (let's not start counting hours though...that will make me depressed)



jmr said:


> thats cool, but i'll be done coating my whole house while your still finishing your angles  just messin.
> 
> hand coating is great if givin the time and money for it.. most areas of the industry won't allow for it, it only works in a niche.. like you said you haven't had the need to buy tools.. most do though.. most contractors around here would laugh you off the job if you told them it would be a week for finishing...
> 
> ...


I'm just getting back into bigger projects now (more than a room or two or remodel etc) and I'm aching for tools. After calculating where I'm at on this one it's not the greatest.... Granted, I earned a new builder who likes to be loyal but a 12 hour day that should have taken 6-7 hurts for a semi-old fart like me. The next two days are going to be some whacked out hand texture....DOH!


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

I would probably get banjo first,a zooka may be a little tuff on a semi ol fart also you could get a roller.glazer and pole and probably have have mney left over. Have you ever ran a bazooka?You almost have to have a roller and glazer to wipe. Wouldnt want to hear about bad experiences with tools


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

....


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> just pointing out that we all know tools are just the beginning of a good finish (unless you live in a knock-down market).


Your sneaky:thumbup:
A little dig back for the paint brush comments I see:jester:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

chris said:


> I would probably get banjo first,a zooka may be a little tuff on a semi ol fart also you could get a roller.glazer and pole and probably have have mney left over. Have you ever ran a bazooka?You almost have to have a roller and glazer to wipe. Wouldnt want to hear about bad experiences with tools


 Yeah, I've run a bazooka quite a bit, but it's been a while!:wheelchair: I spend money on tools all the time (carpentry tools, which are more fun:yes, I've just been balking at the tape sets because for some reason I kept convincing myself I needed to buy a whole set. A bazooka, pump, and angle tools make it a little more affordable.



Mudslinger said:


> You could rename your company Feng shui drywall.


How about Kung Fu drywall?:chinese:



2buckcanuck said:


> Your sneaky:thumbup:
> A little dig back for the paint brush comments I see


Actually 2Buck, I wasn't singling you out for anything. The company I used to work for was run by a California transplant who was a big time production guy. The guys had 3 days to finish a house, and the fourth day they were given an hour or two for sanding before the texture guy was in there masking. He sprayed the ugliest knockdown, and he did the whole house all at once, really heavy, so he could go back and knock it all down in one shot. The finishers became so accustomed to this kind of work that their light orange peel jobs were a failure...they didn't know what to look for. They'd run through and touch up blemishes, but their joints were not-so-good. Part of my job for him was quality control and sometimes I didn't know where to start.....I think that's where I started defining where I would like to take my "business"........as in "NOT what this guy is doing"


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## Jason (Feb 27, 2011)

No worries Slim.


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