# Whats your flavour sandpaper???



## cazna

Right here we go, I find this amazing.

Some well respected and highly experenced members of this colourful forum use 100g for sanding mud and sealer/undercoats???

So it weres down somewhat and you use it and it seems to work for you, I personally have seen otherwise but its got me curious as to what other members are using??

Im in the 220g camp for usg total and easyfinish and sealer/undercoats and between coats if you take it that far?? I dont know your other muds are like, obviously some are harder than others so need a courser paper, I use to use 150g for some nz made mud and thought that was rough enough on the boardpaper.

To me 100g even if worn down will scratch mud, tear up sealers and make a mess, been there tryed and done that, not going back.

So whats your fav sandpaper grit for the muds you are using then


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## proficient Mudder

I have always used 120 grit on pole sander and/or power sander and average about 50 boards per piece.

Bill


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## Capt-sheetrock

Personally, when my 100 grit wears abit, I replace it with a new piece.


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## DSJOHN

I use the 150 grit on my PC


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## Scott_w

120 grit mostly.


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## taper71

Ya I heard you guys from Ontario can put it on with a rake and sand it with a brick and everyone likes it lol. 
I use 220 grit on the black widow and a sponge thats about 6 houses used now. I replace my pad and sponge about every 6th house and when I sand it is very light no putting my weight into it. I tried some 150 grit today and it is way to scratchy for my taste even after I sanded cement with it for awhile .


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## D's

for rough sand after 2nd coat using 150 grit radius 360 without the pad
for final - 180 grit radius 360 for the field and 150 grit dual angle sponge for the corners.

I've got 100 grit for marking up painted walls and old texture- used it once for rough sanding and once painted you could tell it had burred up the paper - so don't go lower than 150 now.


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## wnybassman

The first 10 years I used the PC we used 100 grit exclusively. Never seemed to have any problems with it and we did a ton of houses. For whatever reason I graduated to 120 grit and that's what I used until I quit using sandpaper. The last couple years we used the sanding pads we really struggled with them for some reason. It was polishing the compound more than sanding. The first job or two we wrote it off as "it must have been the conditions" but after two years and all sorts of conditions that wasn't the case. Still never figured out what the problem was, but the Capt. helped me out introducing us to the sanding screens for the PC. These made sanding fun again! lol We are using the 180 grit screens, but may bump up to 220.


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## 2buckcanuck

we use 80 grit with no pad/foam to rough/buzz sand with,bead gets the muscle
run a 2 man crew so one guy sands the screws,all edges of flats,beads,angles and the butts (left right strokes) with 120 grit on foam backed paper,on a idiot stick as the Capt. calls them.
2nd guy follows with 180 grit foam backed paper on a idiot stick,lite touch sand with up down strokes on all mudded surfaces except horizontal angles of coarse.
we like to use muds that are tougher to sand,they leave less sanding lines ,we use softer muds on screws so rock won't burr as much,and in angles to prevent pin holes.
then fine grit sponge for low areas for check out,medium grit for high areas
also if it's a high visual wall/sunshine wall we 180 the screws,but total 120 closets ,garage etc.....
don't see no need for a power sander,just another tool with a chord thats attached to a vacuum cleaner ,that you got to drag around (not to stir the hornets nest)don't find pole sanding that hard,just find screws time consuming,not hard to sand,just time consuming.....there's lots of them so....
could maybe see a power sander if doing a lot of painted ceilings maybe,but sanding screws with them....burr burr burrsss ,,,,ooopps ,hope i didn't stir up a hornets nest here eh


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## wnybassman

2buckcanuck said:


> we use 80 grit with no pad/foam to rough/buzz sand with,bead gets the muscle
> run a 2 man crew so one guy sands the screws,all edges of flats,beads,angles and the butts (left right strokes) with 120 grit on foam backed paper,on a idiot stick as the Capt. calls them.
> 2nd guy follows with 180 grit foam backed paper on a idiot stick,lite touch sand with up down strokes on all mudded surfaces except horizontal angles of coarse.
> we like to use muds that are tougher to sand,they leave less sanding lines ,we use softer muds on screws so rock won't burr as much,and in angles to prevent pin holes.
> then fine grit sponge for low areas for check out,medium grit for high areas
> also if it's a high visual wall/sunshine wall we 180 the screws,but total 120 closets ,garage etc.....
> don't see no need for a power sander,just another tool with a chord thats attached to a vacuum cleaner ,that you got to drag around (not to stir the hornets nest)don't find pole sanding that hard,just find screws time consuming,not hard to sand,just time consuming.....there's lots of them so....
> could maybe see a power sander if doing a lot of painted ceilings maybe,but sanding screws with them....burr burr burrsss ,,,,ooopps ,hope i didn't stir up a hornets nest here eh



What is this "burring" around screws you are talking about? Not sure I know what you mean.


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## proficient Mudder

2buckcanuck said:


> we use 80 grit with no pad/foam to rough/buzz sand with,bead gets the muscle
> run a 2 man crew so one guy sands the screws,all edges of flats,beads,angles and the butts (left right strokes) with 120 grit on foam backed paper,on a idiot stick as the Capt. calls them.
> 2nd guy follows with 180 grit foam backed paper on a idiot stick,lite touch sand with up down strokes on all mudded surfaces except horizontal angles of coarse.
> we like to use muds that are tougher to sand,they leave less sanding lines ,we use softer muds on screws so rock won't burr as much,and in angles to prevent pin holes.
> then fine grit sponge for low areas for check out,medium grit for high areas
> also if it's a high visual wall/sunshine wall we 180 the screws,but total 120 closets ,garage etc.....
> don't see no need for a power sander,just another tool with a chord thats attached to a vacuum cleaner ,that you got to drag around (not to stir the hornets nest)don't find pole sanding that hard,just find screws time consuming,not hard to sand,just time consuming.....there's lots of them so....
> could maybe see a power sander if doing a lot of painted ceilings maybe,but sanding screws with them....burr burr burrsss ,,,,ooopps ,hope i didn't stir up a hornets nest here eh


No buzz here,
I have always used pole sanders in houses, I just started using a power sander a couple of yrs ago with the commercial company I am working for. it does make things probably faster in the big open areas and of course cleaner. But I do find it equally aggrevating with having to drag it around, keep the filters clean, clean the vac bag and on alot of the smaller jobs the temporary electric is overwhelmed and the sander will blow the breaker everytime.
I use 120 grit disc with it and keep the speed setting slow until I tone the paper down some and than pick the speed up. I never have to go back and pole sand behind it and that's tested with a 500 watt light, if I had to sand something twice than I wouldn't even use it.

I get bragged on all the time about how fast I am and without swirl marks but honestly I perfer the pole sander over it as I guess too many yrs of doing things simple.

Bill


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## JustMe

cazna said:


> Right here we go, I find this amazing.
> 
> Some well respected and highly experenced members of this colourful forum use 100g for sanding mud and sealer/undercoats???


Maybe they can get away with it because they're just that good(?)

For what I use right now, it depends on the situation - type of paint being used, lighting, is it a warehouse or lawyer offices, ........ .

I'll go from 120 silicon carbide to 220 aluminum oxide for pole sanders.

With my PC, I've got 100 to 220. Most of our coating is pretty tight - not a lot of 'bulk' sanding usually needed - so I've usually only used it when there's a large enough 'dustless' situation requirement. I stay mostly in the finer grits with it at such times. But I have used the coarser grits when, say, rough sanding 1st coat on things like lower bulkheads - and especially when I can get away without hooking up the PC to a vac. I just use a long cord, and stay ahead of the cloud I'm kicking up with it.


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## 2buckcanuck

wnybassman said:


> What is this "burring" around screws you are talking about? Not sure I know what you mean.


roughing up the paper,example would be if you kept sanding a spot on the rock where theres no mud ,what would the paper do,quality and make of drywall can affect this too,worse when it's humid out also.
i gave it the name burring,maybe you call it something else


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> roughing up the paper,example would be if you kept sanding a spot on the rock where theres no mud ,what would the paper do,quality and make of drywall can affect this too,worse when it's humid out also.
> i gave it the name burring,maybe you call it something else


 
This is one of the main reasons im turned off courser papers, it roughs up and burrs the board paper which will show through the finished job, been there, stuffed that up before, and courser paper on the sealer only makes this worse, But our board paper used to really bad and easily damaged, it has improved though but will still burr up if over sanded.


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## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> This is one of the main reasons im turned off courser papers, it roughs up and burrs the board paper which will show through the finished job, been there, stuffed that up before, and courser paper on the sealer only makes this worse, But our board paper used to really bad and easily damaged, it has improved though but will still burr up if over sanded.


 Okay guys, try to pay attention here,,,,lol,,,,, I hand skim my nails on the third caot with an 8" knife. I know that sounds crazy, but consider this,,, its the SAME size as the PC sander,,, POOF,,, no burnishing of the paper,,,, Hee Hee (you got to think OUTSIDE of the idiot stick) I run my beads with an 8" knife, cause its EXCATULLY the size of the PC head

When I sand with the PC I understand it cuts in one direction better than the other, so I cut down one side, with the sander just barely touching the paper, then BACK in the other direction with the sander just barely touching the paper on the bottom side, then one real quick pass down the middle to deal with any swirls and/or discrepency's

My point is this,,, If your not gonna change your mode of operation to deal with the PC, then you got to stick to hand finishing and pole sanding.

Try to understand this stuff guys, I'm getting old and then WHO is gonna tell you this stuff???


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## 2buckcanuck

Grass hopper (cazna) will be teaching everyone in 25 years captain,he might be a master buy then :jester::whistling2:


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## proficient Mudder

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Okay guys, try to pay attention here,,,,lol,,,,, I hand skim my nails on the third caot with an 8" knife. I know that sounds crazy, but consider this,,, its the SAME size as the PC sander,,, POOF,,, no burnishing of the paper,,,, Hee Hee (you got to think OUTSIDE of the idiot stick) I run my beads with an 8" knife, cause its EXCATULLY the size of the PC head
> 
> When I sand with the PC I understand it cuts in one direction better than the other, so I cut down one side, with the sander just barely touching the paper, then BACK in the other direction with the sander just barely touching the paper on the bottom side, then one real quick pass down the middle to deal with any swirls and/or discrepency's
> 
> My point is this,,, If your not gonna change your mode of operation to deal with the PC, then you got to stick to hand finishing and pole sanding.
> 
> Try to understand this stuff guys, I'm getting old and then WHO is gonna tell you this stuff???


 
That's what i do, 2 small coats on the screws with a 6" and than skimmed tight with an 8". I think with any kind of sanding, the less edges and unneccesary mudding will result in lighter pressure of sanding, faster sanding time and alot less burning of the paper.

Bill


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## taper71

I use angle mud for my last coat on the screws pulled tight with a 6 inch. When I sand them it s just a quick up down and move on to the next one with the idiot stick. I used to grind the edges down to really feather the mud into the board but really it is not nessasary. I hate sanding so I use just the right amount of mud and put it on nice as to sand the least.


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## Capt-sheetrock

taper71 said:


> I use angle mud for my last coat on the screws pulled tight with a 6 inch. When I sand them it s just a quick up down and move on to the next one with the idiot stick. I used to grind the edges down to really feather the mud into the board but really it is not nessasary. I hate sanding so I use just the right amount of mud and put it on nice as to sand the least.


 I agree, but I hate sanding SO much that I skim the nails with an 8 and then sand em with a PC. See, I hate sanding more than you do.

And there is no more of "quick up and down" as a PC gives you.

I also use the right amount of mud,and put it on right, I just use less effort to sand it than you do


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## 2buckcanuck

proficient Mudder said:


> That's what i do, 2 small coats on the screws with a 6" and than skimmed tight with an 8". I think with any kind of sanding, the less edges and unneccesary mudding will result in lighter pressure of sanding, faster sanding time and alot less burning of the paper.
> 
> Bill[/QUOTE
> I must be the complete opposite.We keep the 1st coat as small as possible on nails so they don't flare out past the 3"nail spotter, if we know were going to use it.some times finish by hand.
> -and captain ,have you tried using you 8" box for final coat on screws,instead of a knife.guessing you tried it
> -ANYONE,are the power sanders able to run ok without vacuum,do they not clog up.
> and I'm guessing you can use a coarser paper b/c of the spiral motion a power sander makes.....just curious,only used one once,I was not impressed with them,but that was 15 years ago


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## taper71

Ya I am trying to get the courage enough to try the power sander out again, but I really didn t like the swirl marks it left the last time I tried it ( 2 years ago ) and that was with 220 radius 360 pads too . I hate sanding and I know that it can be done quicker with a power sander than an idiot stick, but with the light mud around here, man you look at it wrong and it scratches. I will give it a go between 2nd and 3rd coat and practise then.


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## cazna

Never tryed a power sander with out a lux, prob would clog up, they are a hassel to drag around but cleaner and tidier than idiot stick, Do you clean up after the idiot stick?? or leave it for the poor painter, or have a half arsed sweep up and expect the painter to work with that as well?? It needs to clean and dust free for a good paint job and that starts with good clean sanding habits so a pc on the lux is great.

Dam an 8inch swipe seems a lot for screws, i use a 5 for the last coat and its only a fast swish over with the pc so no paper fluffing,

Im already a master 2buck, I just having a tough time trying to teach you a few things??:whistling2:


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## 2buckcanuck

well here's a lesson for you Grass Hopper,I'm a master not a B!tch,I don't do cleaning


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## Mudslinger

....


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> proficient Mudder said:
> 
> 
> 
> ANYONE,are the power sanders able to run ok without vacuum,do they not clog up.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably not the best for them. But I have done it the odd time in smaller areas, where 10' high ceilings needed a quick knock back of some mud buildup and a vac wasn't handy enough. Rather have the sander get most of the wear and tear than something like my shoulders - sanders can be fixed easier. Blowing out the motor compartment area after with compressed air could be a help.
> 
> As I already said, I try to stay ahead of any dust cloud when running without a vac. But in situations where I can't, I've been known to put a 2' floor box fan at one end and sand towards it in a way that blows the dust away from me and the sander. I've also done that at times when pole sanding. Keeps you cooler and pretty much dust free. I don't care to wear dust masks, if possible.
Click to expand...


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## DSJOHN

They sell the PC w/o vacuum, check like Amazon


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> proficient Mudder said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what i do, 2 small coats on the screws with a 6" and than skimmed tight with an 8". I think with any kind of sanding, the less edges and unneccesary mudding will result in lighter pressure of sanding, faster sanding time and alot less burning of the paper.
> 
> Bill[/QUOTE
> I must be the complete opposite.We keep the 1st coat as small as possible on nails so they don't flare out past the 3"nail spotter, if we know were going to use it.some times finish by hand.
> -and captain ,have you tried using you 8" box for final coat on screws,instead of a knife.guessing you tried it
> -ANYONE,are the power sanders able to run ok without vacuum,do they not clog up.
> and I'm guessing you can use a coarser paper b/c of the spiral motion a power sander makes.....just curious,only used one once,I was not impressed with them,but that was 15 years ago
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of differant things here,
> 
> 1)If I'm hand finishisng the screws, I "spot" em with an 8" kiife, that leaves like a 6" spot
> 2) If I'm using nail spotters, I will lay it to the left on the first pass and the right on the second pass (with a 3" spotter) leaveing a 5" stripe.
> 3)I haven't used an 8" box for screws, cause its actually 8", thought about buying a 5" box for that, but haven't gotten around to it
> 4)PC sanders run great without a vac, but you will need a dust mask,, lol,,, open the windows and the house looks like its on fire. I only use a vac for re-models (I call em occupied dwellings)
> 5) I have used from 80 to 220 grit on a PC and I really do not see any differance in any of em. If you are gonna burn or swril , its cause you don't know how to run the PC, not the grit of the paper.
> 6) I'm done preaching now
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## wnybassman

taper71 said:


> Ya I am trying to get the courage enough to try the power sander out again, but I really didn t like the swirl marks it left the last time I tried it ( 2 years ago ) and that was with 220 radius 360 pads too . I hate sanding and I know that it can be done quicker with a power sander than an idiot stick, but with the light mud around here, man you look at it wrong and it scratches. I will give it a go between 2nd and 3rd coat and practise then.


Lightweight muds and the PC don't really go well together. Even the mid-weight muds sand way too easy. 

The trick is to keep moving, never stop on the wall. I always drop the head on an area without compound and slide into it. Come off the wall the same way.


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## Bill from Indy

one dog here than you cant teach new tricks..i use idiot stick with blue emery 120 I get in 100yd rolls..if i'm sanding L5, I take that off and use a widow with 150..trim tex 885 sponges for all hand sanding

I tried the pc sander years ago...lets just say unless it gets burlap coverings, it dont fit my hands...i'm not knocking the tool, just dont work for me


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## Capt-sheetrock

Bill from Indy said:


> one dog here than you cant teach new tricks..i use idiot stick with blue emery 120 I get in 100yd rolls..if i'm sanding L5, I take that off and use a widow with 150..trim tex 885 sponges for all hand sanding
> 
> I tried the pc sander years ago...lets just say unless it gets burlap coverings, it dont fit my hands...i'm not knocking the tool, just dont work for me


 Nothing wrong with that,,, I went to vist my friend in upstate NY,,, there are folks up there that still drive horse and buggies.


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> 2buckcanuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of differant things here,
> 
> 1)If I'm hand finishisng the screws, I "spot" em with an 8" kiife, that leaves like a 6" spot
> 2) If I'm using nail spotters, I will lay it to the left on the first pass and the right on the second pass (with a 3" spotter) leaveing a 5" stripe.
> 3)I haven't used an 8" box for screws, cause its actually 8", thought about buying a 5" box for that, but haven't gotten around to it
> 4)PC sanders run great without a vac, but you will need a dust mask,, lol,,, open the windows and the house looks like its on fire. I only use a vac for re-models (I call em occupied dwellings)
> 5) I have used from 80 to 220 grit on a PC and I really do not see any differance in any of em. If you are gonna burn or swril , its cause you don't know how to run the PC, not the grit of the paper.
> 6) I'm done preaching now
> 
> 
> 
> thank you for reply
> 1)miss understood you,thought you coating them 8" wide,done that before with 8" knife though
> 2)we did that for years,works great.mudstar calls that being a artist :yes:
> 3)I'd just keep doing nail spotter thing,imo saves money
> 4)makes power sander interesting now,,,90% of our work ceilings sprayed,but when we do painted ceilings,garages etc...could be interesting,would half to rent one 1st to try though.
> 5)thats what I was assuming,,,but grass hopper will argue that one I bet :whistling2:
> 6)preach on
> 7)and my leafs losing 1 to 0
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## tricounty dwall

i use 120 or 150.. But i always run it on the floor for a minute to knock it down some.. If u dont it will eat the mud up, and always make sure if u use the disc and paper cut a x in the center so it doesnt suck to the wall :thumbsup:


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## McDusty

Johnson's Abrasives Wet-Kut Sandpaper
100grit between coats
120 or 150grit final sand walls, depending on situation. usually 120.
120grit final sand ceilings

check out with Dynamic med/fine sponge with 100watt light.


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## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Nothing wrong with that,,, I went to vist my friend in upstate NY,,, there are folks up there that still drive horse and buggies.


:laughing:


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> Capt-sheetrock said:
> 
> 
> 
> thank you for reply
> 1)miss understood you,thought you coating them 8" wide,done that before with 8" knife though
> 2)we did that for years,works great.mudstar calls that being a artist :yes:
> 3)I'd just keep doing nail spotter thing,imo saves money
> 4)makes power sander interesting now,,,90% of our work ceilings sprayed,but when we do painted ceilings,garages etc...could be interesting,would half to rent one 1st to try though.
> 5)thats what I was assuming,,,but grass hopper will argue that one I bet :whistling2:
> 6)preach on
> 7)and my leafs losing 1 to 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :jester:Yes, Grasshopper does argue with that.
> Nope not doing it, not using anything below 180g for drywall
> 
> Butting my own head,
> The donkey wont move,
> Heads stuck firmly in the sand like an ostrich,
> Ive thrown all the toys out of the sandpit,
> Talk to the hand cause the ears arnt listening,
> Stubburn as a smelly old billy goat,
> The bottom lip has been dropped,
> Im throwing a tantrum in the supermarket,
> Digging my toes in the sand, No No No
> Cant make me, im not going too, been there [email protected]#ed that up,
> not doing it again, Im right, your wrong, you need new glasses, Yuk Yuk and yuk :thumbup:
Click to expand...


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## wnybassman

cazna said:


> 2buckcanuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> :jester:Yes, Grasshopper does argue with that.
> Nope not doing it, not using anything below 180g for drywall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe your grits are different on the metric system? :jester:
Click to expand...


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## cazna

wnybassman said:


> cazna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe your grits are different on the metric system? :jester:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha? Theres a point?
Click to expand...


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## Capt-sheetrock

cazna said:


> 2buckcanuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> :jester:Yes, Grasshopper does argue with that.
> Nope not doing it, not using anything below 180g for drywall
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to what you just said,,, your not going to try anything differant. There is no way any new tool or technique can help you improve.
> 
> You are done learning, and will never increase your production or money.
> 
> Ask youreslf. "Self, why do I come to this site if I am not interested in learning anything new???"
Click to expand...


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## proficient Mudder

> 5) I have used from 80 to 220 grit on a PC and I really do not see any differance in any of em. If you are gonna burn or swril , its cause you don't know how to run the PC, not the grit of the paper.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I feel that i am a novice of only using it for about a year, but with speed setting, holding pressure, travel speed and stopping and starting in a safe manner is what makes the job good or bad. The sandpaper is just the other end of the tool.
> 
> Bill
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## SlimPickins

I don't have a power sander, all idiot stick for me. I must really be an idiot to use Johnson Abrasives 180-220 too....I can use one piece of paper for 4-5 jobs. Don't get me wrong, there's a time for 80 grit....like when I'm sanding hot mud. I even rub my 220 on the floor to smooth it out. Most of my work is smooth wall though, and there's always that damn bank of windows at the far end, or that long hallway with a door at the end, or the F*&%ing sconces....the SCONCES:furious:


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## cazna

Capt-sheetrock said:


> cazna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen to what you just said,,, your not going to try anything differant. There is no way any new tool or technique can help you improve.
> 
> You are done learning, and will never increase your production or money.
> 
> Ask youreslf. "Self, why do I come to this site if I am not interested in learning anything new???"
> 
> 
> 
> Went someone adds :jester: and :thumbup: it means they are just joking around Capt.
> 
> I didnt say im not going to try anything different, I love trying things different, I said im not using anything below 180g on drywall as i have been there done that, and ruined it.
> 
> I come to this site becouse i love trying and learning things new and seeing what other are upto but went it comes to course sandpaper i have tryed all the grits and i like the finer ones, Whats the point of tearing it up, I dont know what your wallboardpaper is like, we only have one brand, and i dont know what you muds like either, but for me and our wallboard and muds im happy with the finer grits, anything less and it ruins it, As i said, Been there tryed that, ruined it, corrected it, got it working great, does not take me long on the pc to sand, im not putting great amounts on just to sand off again, its only a swipe and im done, anything courser and its ruined. Its only a very short time on the pc, so if i change to a courser grit sandpaper i dont see much of a time saving but i see greater risk of damage, its not worth it, but hey maybe when im 58 it will be.
> I may not agree at this time but im always listening and keeping things in the back of my head, Cheers Capt.
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## Mudstar

In 4 days you guys have over 42 posts including mine. 

Its unbelievable that you guys go on about a subject like a bunch of old hags.

The ones that use PC's kick up such a dust storm and the idiot sticks bust your balls off it sounds like to me.

It looks like none of you's have figured out how to put on the right amount of mud and you all seem to have sandpaper solution's to making this job easier in this final step.

Since sandpaper is the last thing to touch the wall, the paper type and grit used depends on the final mud used you would think, wouldn't you, which in my eyes is a trade secret.

So with that said there's another topic for discussion for all you old hagglers. 

What mud do you use on your final coat?

Besides all this post it looks like you guys have too much time on your hands, you all not working very much or something?

JS

PS
Starting another tread on "What mud do you use on your final coat?" could be a simple answer but knowing you guys it will be long winded and opinionated I could imagine.

get back to work you slackers...................


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## 2buckcanuck

could you start a thread on why you use a 12" box to finish with,but agree with captain that you should use a 10" to finish with?:whistling2:
This is a site about secrets,not bragging rights,right grass hopper ? :yes:


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## Mudstar

2buckcanuck said:


> could you start a thread on why you use a 12" box to finish with,but agree with captain that you should use a 10" to finish with?:whistling2:
> This is a site about secrets,not bragging rights,right grass hopper ? :yes:



I know why I finish with a 12 and I know you know too. 

You said this in a past thread.

I also agree with Capt. but we live in a area that is most particular on quality.


----------



## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> could you start a thread on why you use a 12" box to finish with,but agree with captain that you should use a 10" to finish with?:whistling2:
> This is a site about secrets,not bragging rights,right grass hopper ? :yes:


 
Rock on 2buck :thumbsup: It sure is, I showed you a pic of my high shoulders, no way could i just get away with a ten to finish, Maybe you guys could???

You are right though Mr Mudstar, Its all about type of finishing mud, boardpaper and sandpaper combos in the end,
I have done a lot of skimming, people like to strip off the wallpaper and get it skimmed for paint here, Under wall lights and critical lighting, even 220 will sctatch that up, so im having a real hard time getting the 100g idea.

We may have done all that posting mudstar, but you have read them all as well, so your just as guility :thumbsup:


----------



## Mudstar

cazna said:


> Rock on 2buck :thumbsup: It sure is, I showed you a pic of my high shoulders, no way could i just get away with a ten to finish, Maybe you guys could???
> 
> You are right though Mr Mudstar, Its all about type of finishing mud, boardpaper and sandpaper combos in the end,
> I have done a lot of skimming, people like to strip off the wallpaper and get it skimmed for paint here, Under wall lights and critical lighting, even 220 will sctatch that up, so im having a real hard time getting the 100g idea.
> 
> We may have done all that posting mudstar, but you have read them all as well, so your just as guility :thumbsup:


:stupid:

not guilty of rambling on like some of you's 

At least my posts are to the point...................


JS


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

SlimPickins said:


> I don't have a power sander, all idiot stick for me. I must really be an idiot to use Johnson Abrasives 180-220 too....I can use one piece of paper for 4-5 jobs. Don't get me wrong, there's a time for 80 grit....like when I'm sanding hot mud. I even rub my 220 on the floor to smooth it out. Most of my work is smooth wall though, and there's always that damn bank of windows at the far end, or that long hallway with a door at the end, or the F*&%ing sconces....the SCONCES:furious:


 99.9% of my jobs are are "slick", 100 grit works fine for em, even with huge rooms full of windows, hallways with a big window on either end.

When you hang it, fill it, and paint it,,, and nothing shows,,,,,,, with eggshell and ALOT of windows,,,,, is 100 grit REALLY too rough?????

OR are you just ,,,,,,,

SET IN YOUR WAYS ?????


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## Capt-sheetrock

Okay kids,,,,, you got to remember what this is,,, its a drywall forum to discuss new ideas and techniques (thank God it ain't about spelling) 

We all have several things to remember,, one is the AREA we work in, and we have to conform to the norm. That don't nessacarrly make it right, it just makes it the way it is.

The other thing we have to remember is that "things" can be done in a differant manner and still produce the same results.

For example, If you live in an area that EXPECTS a 12" skim, you have to give it. ON the other hand,,, they expect a well sanded job,,,,, never had ANYONE other than ANOTHER drywaller question me on the GRIT of sandpaper. In other words,,,, IF the job is right,, they don't care what grit paper you sand it with AS LONG AS YOU RAN THE SKIM WITH A 12" BOX.

See what I'm getting at??


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## DSJOHN

Capt we used to sand with a pc304 that had a foam pad and 100grit glued on to pad[the black paper-al oxide] ran it on the subfloor for a couple seconds and 1 piece usually did whole house,,and like you said when you hang it ,finish it,sand it ,prime it ,and paint it and its 100% A1 quality is it the paper? naw probably not,now we use the PC708 attached to vac [since 1997] other one we used since 1978[always power [email protected]#k that idiot stick But hey we all do crap different if your still doing it and getting paid ,your doing something right!


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## DSJOHN

heres another thing--YOU DONT LIKE SANDING AND LEVEL 5,,learn to apply plaster!!!!


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## Capt-sheetrock

DSJOHN said:


> Capt we used to sand with a pc304 that had a foam pad and 100grit glued on to pad[the black paper-al oxide] ran it on the subfloor for a couple seconds and 1 piece usually did whole house,,and like you said when you hang it ,finish it,sand it ,prime it ,and paint it and its 100% A1 quality is it the paper? naw probably not,now we use the PC708 attached to vac [since 1997] other one we used since 1978[always power [email protected]#k that idiot stick But hey we all do crap different if your still doing it and getting paid ,your doing something right!


 Your spot on with that John,,, 

I'm just trying to get these kids to "think outside the idiot stick",,,

Ya know,,,, we got to try something differant, or we just end up doing the same thing,,,,, sometimes thats good, sometimes that bad,,, got to try something differant, or we never know !!!


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Okay kids,,,,, you got to remember what this is,,, its a drywall forum to discuss new ideas and techniques (thank God it ain't about spelling)
> 
> We all have several things to remember,, one is the AREA we work in, and we have to conform to the norm. That don't nessacarrly make it right, it just makes it the way it is.
> 
> The other thing we have to remember is that "things" can be done in a differant manner and still produce the same results.
> 
> For example, If you live in an area that EXPECTS a 12" skim, you have to give it. ON the other hand,,, they expect a well sanded job,,,,, never had ANYONE other than ANOTHER drywaller question me on the GRIT of sandpaper. In other words,,,, IF the job is right,, they don't care what grit paper you sand it with AS LONG AS YOU RAN THE SKIM WITH A 12" BOX.
> 
> See what I'm getting at??


your bang on the money with this post,when i drive 3 hours down the road to Toronto (centre of the universe in case you didn't know) the standards are so low,that i made a killing there for 3 years,when we took our London standards there,we were like taping Gods (hear that cazna) Don't know why I left


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudstar said:


> I know why I finish with a 12 and I know you know too.
> 
> You said this in a past thread.
> 
> I also agree with Capt. but we live in a area that is most particular on quality.


short,sweet and to the point, cheers eh!:drink:


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> your bang on the money with this post,when i drive 3 hours down the road to Toronto (centre of the universe in case you didn't know) the standards are so low,that i made a killing there for 3 years,when we took our London standards there,we were like taping Gods (hear that cazna) Don't know why I left


 I have only been to Canada once, (not counting a cpl trips to Niagra), I was bear hunting (I think), actually, I was beer drinking,,, a little town called Gowgonda, its like 8 hrs due North of Niagra, and like a half hour from the end of the paved road,,lol. I had a ball, got the video tape to prove that!!!! The black flies liken to eat us up, but it was a blast!!!!!

The little town had a bar/resturant that had a BIG sign outside that said "NO AMERICANS ALLOWED INSIDE WITH KNIVES"... see, and you guys think canuks are dumb????? LOL, their beer is way TOO strong to let a truckload of red-necks inside that have knives.:thumbup:


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## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Your spot on with that John,,,
> 
> I'm just trying to get these kids to "think outside the idiot stick",,,
> 
> Ya know,,,, we got to try something differant, or we just end up doing the same thing,,,,, sometimes thats good, sometimes that bad,,, got to try something differant, or we never know !!!


I'm not so much stuck in my ways....I switched to lighter grits when lightweight topping was the only mud available. ****, you sneeze on that stuff and it scratches.

I think the biggest hurdle for me and a power sander is the cost of it and the size of my jobs(The remodel market here is exploding in this economy, and I'm happy to get on board.). That, and I've never used one. I'd be happy to give it a shot....I love trying new things. (see my post on "American Clay").


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

SlimPickins said:


> I'm not so much stuck in my ways....I switched to lighter grits when lightweight topping was the only mud available. ****, you sneeze on that stuff and it scratches.
> 
> I think the biggest hurdle for me and a power sander is the cost of it and the size of my jobs(The remodel market here is exploding in this economy, and I'm happy to get on board.). That, and I've never used one. I'd be happy to give it a shot....I love trying new things. (see my post on "American Clay").


 Now see,,, thar ya go,,,, confusing things again,,,,lol. 

I agree with ya about lightwieght mud,, it does not sand like real mud. 

Disclaimer: Again its a regional thing, they won't accept lightwieght here, wish they would, I'd LOVE to use it, but alas, it is not an option.

When we argue/discuss these things, you got remember, we are compareing apples to apples,,, If you are using differant mud or tools, then the comparison is not the same


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## Bill from Indy

im going to spot my screws tomorrow like stars....then i can just spit on them and sand them with my fingers.....

This is a joke and the capt knows what im talking about


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## kickass taper

120 sponge back made buy circle brand is very good, try it you might like what you see,


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## cazna

I have been using the 3M sandblaster 180g sanding blocks, really nice made block, very square and holds its grit quite well, yellow in colour, I have try the lower grits but again found them to scratcy for my liking.


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## DSJOHN

Let,s try this for an idea; How many guys started out by hand and found mechanical tools were faster and made you more money?Now ,if you haven,t gone to a PC sander to speed your work up and get a quality finish.I just cant figure that out!!!!! There is a learning curve to nearly every new thing you try,, this of course is only my opinion,,but from my standpoint ,Ive been power sanding drywall for over 30 years and cant believe anyone would sand a house out by hand? One of the posters on here as asked advice about boxes and corner tools and bazookas,, but I dont recall him sanding his work with a PC,, it just makes me wonder sometimes ,thats all


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## Bill from Indy

DSJOHN said:


> Let,s try this for an idea; How many guys started out by hand and found mechanical tools were faster and made you more money?Now ,if you haven,t gone to a PC sander to speed your work up and get a quality finish.I just cant figure that out!!!!! There is a learning curve to nearly every new thing you try,, this of course is only my opinion,,but from my standpoint ,Ive been power sanding drywall for over 30 years and cant believe anyone would sand a house out by hand? One of the posters on here as asked advice about boxes and corner tools and bazookas,, but I dont recall him sanding his work with a PC,, it just makes me wonder sometimes ,thats all


john,
I don't knock the tool at all...i'm sure it is 95% me...i rented them from time to time to try to sand job/jobs faster and here is my take...this may be rental issue and not with your personal sander

the arm that goes from the head to the main oval shaped pole...bent kinda like a 90 and is oh...1/2 to 3/4" in diameter...where it attaches to the oval pole is loose as hell...you get to the bottom if flat and pull back up and head stays there..not long time, but long enough to leave nasty swirls(dig)

the other thing is that after about 20 to 25 sheets, I was always stopping and cleaning out the filter..wap vac bagged and filter...but filter would still get dirty

so by the time I got it "poled" out...went back and resanded all the swirl marks..hand sanded...cleaned out filter every 15min...I just found it easier to use a stick

if walls got vinyl, it would be a totally different story to the above situations....

that being said, it left a sour taste in my mouth to run out and spent 600$ for the setup..I can buy a lot of poles and paper for that

i'm sure if i had one of my own and it was taken care of properly and I had the time to learn the tool, it would be a benefit...but usually, come sand day, painters are up the rear and complaining about my farts if ya know what I mean


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## DSJOHN

Absolutely, Bill, not knockin anyone just my personal opinion,probably if I could show you first hand [like being on your job] you would just shake your head. I remember when I bought my Apla-tech[was going to be even faster-ha ha] ,I wanted to put it through a woodchipper after 2 jobs,learning curve was just a little longer than bazooka,and boxes,I still hate it [except on payday] but when done correctly,there is no beating the right tool. Does sound like you rented a POS, definitely need one with full piece of paper ,not the pads with 1/2 sandpaper, and it also sounds like just a quick hands on lesson would change your mind!!!


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## wnybassman

We borrow one from a friend from time to time when ours breaks down. His head is loose like that and it does suck.

I have said this before. If it wasn't for the PC I would give up the trade. I couldn't even imagine going back to the "old" way.


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## Capt-sheetrock

wnybassman said:


> We borrow one from a friend from time to time when ours breaks down. His head is loose like that and it does suck.
> 
> I have said this before. If it wasn't for the PC I would give up the trade. I couldn't even imagine going back to the "old" way.


 I agree, I hate traffic, I hate maintenace on my truck, I hate the price of gas, the price of parts,,,, HOWEVER,,,,, I cannot see me going back to a horse and buggy.

Almost everybody that states they don't like a PC, have not had much experience with it, or have not had someone that knows how to use one show them how its done. 

Think about that one


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## DSJOHN

What if we didnt like our first lay---would we stop doing it =======come on man!! think about that!!!!


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## SlimPickins

Okay, so let's say you're sanding a small house, around 5000 feet. How long would it take to sand the house out complete (with the PC)? Let's assume it's all bullnose, and everything wraps....windows and closets. There's also one room with a mild vault (11-12ft.). I'm going from memory off of one of the old subdivision houses I used to do...


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## Capt-sheetrock

SlimPickins said:


> Okay, so let's say you're sanding a small house, around 5000 feet. How long would it take to sand the house out complete (with the PC)? Let's assume it's all bullnose, and everything wraps....windows and closets. There's also one room with a mild vault (11-12ft.). I'm going from memory off of one of the old subdivision houses I used to do...


 Your calling a 5000 sq/ft house a small house, and you don't use a PC,,, you really should get out more !!!!!!

If its more than a 5 board job,, I'm useing my PC.

All things are relative,,, but I can sand a 250 brd house in one day with a PC,(BTW, at 57, my day is 6 hrs) thats sponging the corners, scrapeing the floors and sweeping up and throwing the trash in the dumpster. Can you do that with a pole and 600 grit paper???


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Your calling a 5000 sq/ft house a small house, and you don't use a PC,,, you really should get out more !!!!!!
> 
> If its more than a 5 board job,, I'm useing my PC.
> 
> All things are relative,,, but I can sand a 250 brd house in one day with a PC,(BTW, at 57, my day is 6 hrs) thats sponging the corners, scrapeing the floors and sweeping up and throwing the trash in the dumpster. Can you do that with a pole and 600 grit paper???


yeap ,if you mean 250 sheets means ,250 x 48 =12,000 sq ft.
except we don't have mud to scrap off the floor,and cleaning the b1tches do it.
every area different so.........


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## Bill from Indy

DSJOHN said:


> What if we didnt like our first lay---would we stop doing it =======come on man!! think about that!!!!


only if it was you:jester:

sorry john...i had to...just the mood this evening....maybe its the norco's


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## taper71

I can do that as well ( 12000') with my idiot stick ,sponging corners light check, touch ups, scraped swept and tools loaded in truck . With 220 grit on the black widow ( not 600 grit lol ) It would take me between 7 and 8 hrs .


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## 2buckcanuck

taper71 said:


> I can do that as well ( 12000') with my idiot stick ,sponging corners light check, touch ups, scraped swept and tools loaded in truck . With 220 grit on the black widow ( not 600 grit lol ) It would take me between 7 and 8 hrs .


Gee ,from what I hear,you guys from al burr da half to use 60 grit to sand your work to get it smooth :jester:

score so far Ont. 2 ,Albt. 1 :whistling2:


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## taper71

2buckcanuck said:


> Gee ,from what I hear,you guys from al burr da half to use 60 grit to sand your work to get it smooth :jester:
> 
> score so far Ont. 2 ,Albt. 1 :whistling2:


Well I would definately need A PC then . And for the record the joke I said was told to me from a taper that moved here from Ontario :innocent:


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## JustMe

I'll see your pole and PC sanding, and up it TO: I don't even have to sand mine.

Actually had a job like that during the summer of last year - a new building at a power plant. They didn't want any sanding, because of all the new electrical components and such that they already had in place. They couldn't cover them, as there was work going on with them while we were there.

AND, I got to do some of it while working around tube scaffolding set up 4-8" from the wall in places.

That challenge upped my knife coating skills some.


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## SlimPickins

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Your calling a 5000 sq/ft house a small house, and you don't use a PC,,, you really should get out more !!!!!!
> 
> If its more than a 5 board job,, I'm useing my PC.
> 
> All things are relative,,, but I can sand a 250 brd house in one day with a PC,(BTW, at 57, my day is 6 hrs) thats sponging the corners, scrapeing the floors and sweeping up and throwing the trash in the dumpster. Can you do that with a pole and 600 grit paper???


You're such a smarta$$! And yes, I can do that in a day with with a pole and 2000jester grit paper but I'm a lot younger than you are. 

5000 ft. IS small, if you're counting board feet (at least out here in Big Sky Country). If I ever get back into production work I'll look into the PC, you just might have me convinced.


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## DSJOHN

I know this much; you will knock nearly 6-8 hrs off the entire job when you get used to using a PC,that is meant from a coating standpoint to sanding,,I know this from experience and I bet Capt will back it up; See: Are you a finisher or a sander? Of course we are both but the question is a bit deeper than first thought, keep on 3rd coating or tight skimming for easy sanding on your last day of coating while I,m sanding that day----- in the long run I,ll do more jobs in a year,hence more pocket change!!!!!!!


----------



## Mudstar

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Your calling a 5000 sq/ft house a small house, and you don't use a PC,,, you really should get out more !!!!!!
> 
> If its more than a 5 board job,, I'm useing my PC.
> 
> All things are relative,,, but I can sand a 250 brd house in one day with a PC,(BTW, at 57, my day is 6 hrs) thats sponging the corners, scrapeing the floors and sweeping up and throwing the trash in the dumpster. Can you do that with a pole and 600 grit paper???



I do that with a pole but not with 600 but 150, and why would need to scrap the floors anyways, you working with a hawk and trowel?


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

DSJOHN said:


> I know this much; you will knock nearly 6-8 hrs off the entire job when you get used to using a PC,that is meant from a coating standpoint to sanding,,I know this from experience and I bet Capt will back it up; See: Are you a finisher or a sander? Of course we are both but the question is a bit deeper than first thought, keep on 3rd coating or tight skimming for easy sanding on your last day of coating while I,m sanding that day----- in the long run I,ll do more jobs in a year,hence more pocket change!!!!!!!


 I am a sander,, period,,,, cause thats where the money is. I can finish a house without haveing to sand it AT ALL,,, but that takes TWICE as long,,, therfore, it pays 1/2. Why would I do that???? I have said many times, the BEST finisher is the one that makes the most money on friday, without any call-backs. 

You got to figure this out guys,,,,,, are you an "artist" or are you a bussiness man????

If your an artist, then grab your pole and your toilet paper and have at it !!!!!!!!!! Mo power to ya :thumbup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Mudstar said:


> I do that with a pole but not with 600 but 150, and why would need to scrap the floors anyways, you working with a hawk and trowel?


 I have only been doing this since 1973,,, I haven't figured out yet how to do a job without dropping a spot or two of mud,,,,,,,,,, give me a little time, I'll get there,,, Gesse

I have kinves, pans, hawks, trowels,auto tools, alpha-tech tools,,,,, I make a mess with ALL of em,,,, sorry, I know I give the industry a bad name,,,, but I'll pass off the scene one of these days, and you can take over with your "SPOTLESS" techniques,,,,,, just be patient.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I have only been doing this since 1973,,, I haven't figured out yet how to do a job without dropping a spot or two of mud,,,,,,,,,, give me a little time, I'll get there,,, Gesse
> 
> I have kinves, pans, hawks, trowels,auto tools, alpha-tech tools,,,,, I make a mess with ALL of em,,,, sorry, I know I give the industry a bad name,,,, but I'll pass off the scene one of these days, and you can take over with your "SPOTLESS" techniques,,,,,, just be patient.


In our neck of the woods ,the builders have learned not to sweep the floors spot less before we start,they leave them dirty,when you do drop some mud then,you just grind it in with your foot,it mixes in with the dirt on the floor.Plus the builders do the clean up before the painters start.trim guys are usually in before the painters too,that way they have one clean up.simple but it works,leave floors dirty before the taper starts


----------



## 2buckcanuck

here's some


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> In our neck of the woods ,the builders have learned not to sweep the floors spot less before we start,they leave them dirty,when you do drop some mud then,you just grind it in with your foot,it mixes in with the dirt on the floor.Plus the builders do the clean up before the painters start.trim guys are usually in before the painters too,that way they have one clean up.simple but it works,leave floors dirty before the taper starts


 2 buck,,,,, your spot on with that,,,, when I hang, or have it hung, I want the scrap out, but NO sweeping,,,, the more dust, the less drywall mud that needs to be scraped !!!

But wait,,, are you saying that you ALSO drop mud on the floor???? Shame on you !!!!!!!!


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## 2buckcanuck

here's a pic from today,floors look clean?????


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a pic from today,floors look clean?????


 not really,,,,, I think I see a cpl plops around the beads:thumbsup:


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Capt-sheetrock said:


> not really,,,,, I think I see a cpl plops around the beads:thumbsup:


 And another thing,,, If your smarter than we are,,, how come your work looks just like ours?????

Too many questions,,, Too few beers !!!!!!!


----------



## 2buckcanuck

not finished yet,this is third day in a 12,000 sq ft home,half to have it done by 12 noon Monday,brought daughter into day,she took some pics,notice tiny spots on screws,her 1st time coating them,shes 15
never stated I was smarter than anyone,but can I kick some taper a$$ ,yeap,we have a system,we stick to it,were fast and clean,can smoke off 20,000 sq in under one week with wicked stuff to do in them,never get sent back,always get requested back,....you can call it what you want,Ill put up some start to finish pics at one point
half to steal daughters camera


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a pic from today,floors look clean?????


That looks like a BigShot tube, 2buck(>?) If so, how do you find it? Tight? Sloppy?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

it's sloppy,more from the applicator heads that attach to it,can am one for bead installation,too much mud pours out back end ....some times,flat applicator we use for no coat if there's a lot of them,it's ok.we use it to corner flush with (angle applicator) yes it takes longer,but shoulders gone,But we find end result more than makes up for it.so it evens out I guess.We also use it to fill up nail spotter,and when I'm feeling real lazy,1st coat on very high ceilings with flat applicator (stiff mud so...)wipe with a knife on a stick.Another good thing their good for is when you got some thing minor to tape out (say a closet) you can pull it out instead of bazooka.
When ever your walking around with it you half to always remember to pull back on the handle just a bit to stop the mud from advancing ......just like a caulking gun.keep those floors clean:yes:
wish they would make a bigger and fatter one.
and $1,400 for a mudrunner,not biting,maybe when they hit $400,and I won't buy used tools either so......done with buying more toys,the kid that works with me can get them,I'm getting old so......


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I am a sander,, period,,,, cause thats where the money is. I can finish a house without haveing to sand it AT ALL,,, but that takes TWICE as long,,, therfore, it pays 1/2. Why would I do that???? I have said many times, the BEST finisher is the one that makes the most money on friday, without any call-backs.
> 
> You got to figure this out guys,,,,,, are you an "artist" or are you a bussiness man????


What I believe are words of wisdom.

Now if I can just get my artist ego to agree, and get out of my own way.


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> it's sloppy,more from the applicator heads that attach to it,can am one for bead installation,too much mud pours out back end ....some times,flat applicator we use for no coat if there's a lot of them,it's ok.we use it to corner flush with (angle applicator) yes it takes longer,but shoulders gone,But we find end result more than makes up for it.so it evens out I guess.We also use it to fill up nail spotter,and when I'm feeling real lazy,1st coat on very high ceilings with flat applicator (stiff mud so...)wipe with a knife on a stick.Another good thing their good for is when you got some thing minor to tape out (say a closet) you can pull it out instead of bazooka.
> When ever your walking around with it you half to always remember to pull back on the handle just a bit to stop the mud from advancing ......just like a caulking gun.keep those floors clean:yes:
> wish they would make a bigger and fatter one.
> and $1,400 for a mudrunner,not biting,maybe when they hit $400,and I won't buy used tools either so......done with buying more toys,the kid that works with me can get them,I'm getting old so......


Thx, 2buck.

For minor taping in places like a closet, I'll pull out my banjo, and have tapes strung out, rolled and flushed (where there's enough room for that) in little time.
Did that along some doors the other day that were tight to the corners. Tapes on, wiped down and coated out in little enough time. I wouldn't want to do them anymore without my banjo. I just unwrap it from its plastic bag - rarely clean the thing; little need, I find - check the mud, and away I go.

I tried the Cam-Am applicator for bead installs, using a Can-Am tube. Not much luck with those applicators, either, although when I stripped it down some it worked better. Still have to try the new Columbia bead applicator I got, with the new Columbia tube. Nice tube.

Not sure so much anymore about keeping the floors clean. Guessing that might depend on the situation. One thing I think it can do for you is make you look more professional in the eyes of some. If those 'some' are the ones doing the hiring, then maybe it's still the best way to go during such times.


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## 2buckcanuck

Some times I wonder why we got to keep the floors so clean,the spray guy just comes in and makes a mess of them.think it's more of a London thing (local area)It's a very fussy town.Can't b1tch in one way,the house were in now the builder requested for us b/c were clean.Out west in some provinces I hear the taper does the cleaning,but no sanding.
will throw this in here(and start a hornets nest),was talking to big boss on Monday,on how high London's standards are,he said the only tapers who could come here and make the grade were tapers from British Columbia.....must be that bc big bud.
remember it's my boss that said that,feel free to shoot him down


----------



## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> Out west in some provinces I hear the taper does the cleaning,but no sanding.


Must be a different part of the west than the west I know of.



2buckcanuck said:


> will throw this in here(and start a hornets nest),was talking to big boss on Monday,on how high London's standards are,he said the only tapers who could come here and make the grade were tapers from British Columbia.....must be that bc big bud.
> remember it's my boss that said that,feel free to shoot him down


Maybe he's right. _All the good tapers out west gravitated to BC._ Yeah, seems like sound reasoning.  You can tell him I said so.


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## 2buckcanuck

well ,before this thread goes more off track ,and everyone west of Ontario begins to gloat .Grass Hopper (cazna) did you gain any useful information from all these post ,are you not going to incorporate any forum of rough sand paper into your work,like 85 % on here seem to do,150 at least,or tougher mud....hhhmmmmm.....essay time----200 words plus,you like to type :jester:


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## cazna

I still dont see the point of courser paper, You seem to be keen on doing a sweet job from what i have read, Much respect, but as i have written in other posts, I use a pc, it does not take to sand with 220g, if i went courser then the time saving is so little its not worth the risk of oversanding and scratching, I have heard our wallboard has now been changed to a lighter board with fibres in and a thicker paper so maybe it will handle it better. Been a very interesting thread though. Cheers to everyone and there input, Come on Mudstar, do tell, it hardy that much of a secret, or are you all for 40g?? :thumbsup:


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> well ,before this thread goes more off track ,and everyone west of Ontario begins to gloat.


Not gloating, 2buck. Just find such reasoning a little sad.

I was talking with one of the company's lead tapers last week about his time spent out east in Ontario, when things slowed down in the west for a time. Sounded like he found the (union) taping he was doing out there to most often be a bit 'humourous'. But that's only his view. I don't know if he ever worked the London area.

We did hire a BC taper not too long ago. He's decent with the knife. He can't run tools, though. He'd told me they didn't give him a chance out there.
He's got 4-5 years experience - long enough that I can't understand why he didn't just grab some automatic tools from somewhere and go learn by doing some side jobs with them. 

I was talking with the field supervisor the other day about how he might be doing. Sounds like he'll be one of the tapers let go, when things slow down some through part of the winter.

--------

add-on:

But I'm not saying/assuming all BC tapers are like him.

And speaking of maybe starting a hornet's nest: A friend who owns a small heating and A/C company in BC said the best taper he thinks he's seen in a new house there was a 40 something year old Mexican, with a young Mexican girl helping him. He said that guy could really go.


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## taper71

Well I think all areas have there losers. What I think if you have to move to another province or area to work then you really were not in buisness and obviously an employee. The reality is when its busy even the bad ones work, but as things slow down the bad get weeded out real quick. As for the lower Grit sandpaper I have to stay with the 180 -220 to finish sand because of the light mud that we get ,any rougher than that and It scratches the heck out of the mud and it looks like crap. I dont get paid for crap.


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## cazna

taper71 said:


> Well I think all areas have there losers. What I think if you have to move to another province or area to work then you really were not in buisness and obviously an employee. The reality is when its busy even the bad ones work, but as things slow down the bad get weeded out real quick. As for the lower Grit sandpaper I have to stay with the 180 -220 to finish sand because of the light mud that we get ,any rougher than that and It scratches the heck out of the mud and it looks like crap. I dont get paid for crap.


Well put taper71, I tryed the lighter weight muds, found them good through the tube but couldnt get the boxes to go to well, the lighter mud didnt push the blade back or smoothed off as well as standard mud. It either scraped of the mud or i backed off the blade then got a big crown so changed back to standard mud.


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## JustMe

taper71 said:


> Well I think all areas have there losers. What I think if you have to move to another province or area to work then you really were not in buisness and obviously an employee. The reality is when its busy even the bad ones work, but as things slow down the bad get weeded out real quick.


I don't think there's one blanket answer as to why guys go to other places, provinces, when work slows down.

In the case of the taper I mentioned who went out east from out west, it was because he had a family, mortgage, ......., that he couldn't afford to support when the work became more sporadic, and the prices for doing it were driven down. The ones without such bills could kind of afford to continue on doing it at those prices, though, so some of them stayed and did the work.

I talked to a guy who had owned a commercial drywall company through those times. He said he tried to hang on then, trying to keep his guys busy enough, till things turned around. He also said they had to take pay cuts, though.
But he still lost over 100,000.00 that year, and was forced to shut it down. Other drywall companies shut down at that time, as well.
He said he tried to talk his guys into going out east for a time and working together there, but they wouldn't. Instead, they opted for a year of gov't unemployment insurance payouts. When that ran out, pretty much all of them switched careers.

I got a chance to talk to the B.C. guy yesterday again about his story. Dad was military, so they moved a fair amount. Was born in Ontario, was moved to B.C., moved to Manitoba, back to B.C.. Got married in B.C., messy divorce, left B.C. for some 'start over' space.


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Well put taper71, I tryed the lighter weight muds, found them good through the tube but couldnt get the boxes to go to well, the lighter mud didnt push the blade back or smoothed off as well as standard mud. It either scraped of the mud or i backed off the blade then got a big crown so changed back to standard mud.


can't speak for your materials grass hopper,but this is how it should go,there's three types of mud,basically.yes there's more but they kind of break down like this.(this not written in stone so......but feel free to add opinions)
Taping mud - good glue in it,would take 80 grit to rough sand,120 to finish,high in fish/wall eyes (porosity) .high rate of shrinkage,fast in drying time
All purpose mud - .can tape with it but less glue in it,80 or 100 grit to rough sand,120,150,180 to finish sand,ok porosity,ok drying time,low shrinkage
Lite/topping mud - low in glue,120,150 to rough sand,180 ,220 to finish sand,very low porosity,not sure on shrinkage,but guessing very low (someone correct me if wrong)[i don't coat/bed with it so...]very slow in drying time

hash this out and maybe put this in faq that checkers wants to start,and own opinions,then cazna or just me can re type it,b/c you guys can type fast,I cant so....


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## 2buckcanuck

taper71 said:


> Well I think all areas have there losers. What I think if you have to move to another province or area to work then you really were not in buisness and obviously an employee. The reality is when its busy even the bad ones work, but as things slow down the bad get weeded out real quick. As for the lower Grit sandpaper I have to stay with the 180 -220 to finish sand because of the light mud that we get ,any rougher than that and It scratches the heck out of the mud and it looks like crap. I dont get paid for crap.


don't know if I'm detecting arrogance here or not,but if wrong ,then ,oh well,from what i get from guys who went out there (west),you tend to have smaller more independent companies,10 to 30 guys etc....that includes ,rockers,steel guys,insulators and tapers.in Ontario there is huge companies that employ up to 800 guys or more.we have 40 % of Canada's population so......There's the union Union guys as I call them .The hour workers .Then the drywall contractors that are p/w union.Most of these companies became super powerful,if you were a small independent (like i was)they would go out of their way to put you under....can you say monopoly ????? that's why I'd say Ontario has become a Union province,can't beat them become a commie lol 
--now there are a few small little companies,don't get me wrong,but if you start to get to big,the union will come in,or a big company will start a price war with you.
--from what it sounds like to me on this site,the fellow dry wall trades in the states,who live in heavily populated areas,seem to work for a company,well the more sparse the population,they work for them selves..jmo
--then there's poor cazna,living in a paradise setting,only taper/painter around for miles......we should all move there


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## Capt-sheetrock

I think that most of these things come from a stand point of drywallers argueing techniques between themselves.

If you talk to a GC or HO about these differant tools and mud,,, they will look at you like a dog at a new pan  Dawg==> I don't know if I want to eat out of that or not !!!:whistling2:

Other than "other" drywallers, NOBODY cares how "pretty" your tape coat is,,,, ALL they care about is "how it looks when its painted" and "how soon can you git-er-done !!!!

If you think I am joking,,, ask your next GC or HO, "do you want your nails spotted or swiped??? Should I "tear=drop"em, all upward? or are you okay with the bottom board pointing downward??? I could use a nail spotter tho,,, would you prefer a 2" followed by a 3" or two caots with a 3" staggard????

ANSWER,,,,,, I don't care, just do me a good job okay?????


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think that most of these things come from a stand point of drywallers argueing techniques between themselves.
> 
> If you talk to a GC or HO about these differant tools and mud,,, they will look at you like a dog at a new pan  Dawg==> I don't know if I want to eat out of that or not !!!:whistling2:
> 
> Other than "other" drywallers, NOBODY cares how "pretty" your tape coat is,,,, ALL they care about is "how it looks when its painted" and "how soon can you git-er-done !!!!
> 
> If you think I am joking,,, ask your next GC or HO, "do you want your nails spotted or swiped??? Should I "tear=drop"em, all upward? or are you okay with the bottom board pointing downward??? I could use a nail spotter tho,,, would you prefer a 2" followed by a 3" or two caots with a 3" staggard????
> 
> ANSWER,,,,,, I don't care, just do me a good job okay?????


your half right,but were professional tapers here,we care.
taking home owners out of the picture,who usually go by reference,word of mouth and price.a good GC always has a push on,and knows what a good job should look like,hence,if you went 8" - 10" box to finish in my neck of the woods,they would be saying that don't look wide enough,should be wider ??????? they know what a good job should look like.
your comments sound more like that of a painter,miss taping or something
back to my hockey game


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## Mudstar

It unbelievable you guys have more time in this one thread then I did on the last house I did. As a matter of fact I'm just about finished the second one. 

Get back to work you slackers............. or your all fired


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## 2buckcanuck

:jester:man your slow.since this post started,we finished one house 8,500 sq,one today,(early) at 12,0000 sq ft and one basement,start our third one tomorrow,maybe you should never leave work slacker :whistling2:


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## Mudstar

I'm a one man crew and I did as much as you and your helper

get back to work slacker ................


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## taper71

he he he


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> can't speak for your materials grass hopper,but this is how it should go,there's three types of mud,basically.yes there's more but they kind of break down like this.(this not written in stone so......but feel free to add opinions)
> Taping mud - good glue in it,would take 80 grit to rough sand,120 to finish,high in fish/wall eyes (porosity) .high rate of shrinkage,fast in drying time
> All purpose mud - .can tape with it but less glue in it,80 or 100 grit to rough sand,120,150,180 to finish sand,ok porosity,ok drying time,low shrinkage
> Lite/topping mud - low in glue,120,150 to rough sand,180 ,220 to finish sand,very low porosity,not sure on shrinkage,but guessing very low (someone correct me if wrong)[i don't coat/bed with it so...]very slow in drying time
> 
> hash this out and maybe put this in faq that checkers wants to start,and own opinions,then cazna or just me can re type it,b/c you guys can type fast,I cant so....


 
Cheers for this one 2buck, its about what i was thinking too, I have taped with the lighter weight muds and it went well, dryed well but that was summer, and had enough shrinkage, it was nice to use, One day im going to start a shrinkage of muds thread and see what every thinks about that, feel free to beat me to it, Have to admit, when i was doing two setting coats and one air drying finishing coat with the hand tools i didnt get the delayed shrinkage i do with the air drying compounds and the machine tools. 

And I couldnt type fast to save my life, And no dont move here, its terrable, You wouldnt like it at all  The area i live in has 30,000 people which is the same area as holland i think, and i think they have 50million, or so a dutch [email protected] that moaned about my bill told me anyway.

They have just changed our wallboard here, now it has a more airated core with added fibres and a tougher face paper, Thank [email protected]#K for that, cant be any worse than the old crap, Might even Handle your 100G 2Buck.


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## 2buckcanuck

I dont use or own 100 grit,it's the capt who does,I just heard the painters use it blah blah blah
And in our area if you tell a ethnic joke about a cheap nationality,you insert the dutch:jester:


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> I dont use or own 100 grit,it's the capt who does,I just heard the painters use it blah blah blah
> And in our area if you tell a ethnic joke about a cheap nationality,you insert the dutch:jester:


What is it with them guys, This one owned a pizza bar and wanted to pay me in 5k of pizza vouchers, WTF man, 5k, I would eating a ton of pizza for years, yuk, I not that keen on pizza :thumbup:

Then it was cash only, then it was cash and some pigs, I told him i wasnt keen on any of that and just pay the bill, Man did he sulk, He did in the end but what a fuss, Dont mean to sound like like a racist, Just an observation. :jester:


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> What is it with them guys, This one owned a pizza bar and wanted to pay me in 5k of pizza vouchers, WTF man, 5k, I would eating a ton of pizza for years, yuk, I not that keen on pizza :thumbup:
> 
> Then it was cash only, then it was cash and some pigs, I told him i wasnt keen on any of that and just pay the bill, Man did he sulk, He did in the end but what a fuss, Dont mean to sound like like a racist, Just an observation. :jester:


you racist [email protected] cazna,you call the Dutch cheap [email protected] b/c of some business dealings you had with them,but the indians are perfect cause you have some of their blood in you...........................ah ha got you:jester:
we got a lot of dutch people that settled here after WWW2,they love to be known as cheap,they got the best jokes about it.I just don't know who's more cheap,a Dutchman or a Scotsman.......ooppsss
must be politically correct 
It's the H.O. and G.C. that are cheap [email protected]


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## Mudstar

sand it up guys


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> your half right,but were professional tapers here,we care.


No I'm not,,, your half wrong,,,

Or to put it another way,, I could be wrong,, but I'm not.

Your forgetting the def of a professional taper,,,, the guy that makes the most money without any callbacks.

See, you think that since you use a 12 box your stuff is better. It ain't grasshopper,,,, flat is flat,,, period !!! I can't help it if you can't make a wall flat cept by skimming it halfway up the board...:thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck

I dont need a power sander to make my work smooth either,your definition is only part of being a pro,your forgetting speed too.hence the toys/tools.they dont want you in my hood if your not a machine taper........stepping out for the night,will add more later:yes::whistling2:


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## DSJOHN

2buckcanuck said:


> your half right,but were professional tapers here,we care.
> taking home owners out of the picture,who usually go by reference,word of mouth and price.a good GC always has a push on,and knows what a good job should look like,hence,if you went 8" - 10" box to finish in my neck of the woods,they would be saying that don't look wide enough,should be wider ??????? they know what a good job should look like.
> your comments sound more like that of a painter,miss taping or something
> back to my hockey game


When I started in this trade [1978] I pulled all my angles with a 6" knife,when I went to tools I use a 3" corner---amazingly they still pay me --and the 2 are totally different-yes? My jobsites are always clean and professional looking,but the end results of the painted job is what they want --like Capt said!!!!!!!


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> you racist [email protected] cazna,you call the Dutch cheap [email protected] b/c of some business dealings you had with them,but the indians are perfect cause you have some of their blood in you...........................ah ha got you:jester:
> we got a lot of dutch people that settled here after WWW2,they love to be known as cheap,they got the best jokes about it.I just don't know who's more cheap,a Dutchman or a Scotsman.......ooppsss
> must be politically correct
> It's the H.O. and G.C. that are cheap [email protected]


Best joke from an Indian I've seen in the last while was a bumper sticker on a new truck that read _Thanks for the new truck, white man. _Had to smile at that one.


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## 2buckcanuck

so which type of homes do you do where you live Captain sheetrock,the one on the right or the one on the left.
here's just ONE of the builders we do work for. (who has a web page) http://www.canadianbuilder.com/pine_tree_homes/Westmount.asp feel free to browse their page.this is the average home size we do a week.and I'm called Grass hopper ?????
And you stated you now paint for 1/2 the price of what the painters charge,can't walk the rice paper without tearing it there Grass Hopper hhhhhmmmmmmm


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## 2buckcanuck

DSJOHN said:


> When I started in this trade [1978] I pulled all my angles with a 6" knife,when I went to tools I use a 3" corner---amazingly they still pay me --and the 2 are totally different-yes? My jobsites are always clean and professional looking,but the end results of the painted job is what they want --like Capt said!!!!!!!


your half right too,go back to the ways you did things in 1978 and tell me how much work you get.
So your saying too, that having your own truck,tools,years of experience,reputation ,insurance,being one part salesman,keeping your word,meeting time lines,having references,means nothing ????A professional taper is the one who makes the most money with no call backs?????thats it to you guys.
any trade gets the push,,,once they START a job.you guys are sounding like painters to me.their the ones i hear saying "I don't care weather you do it by machine,by hand,or put it on with a shovel,your job is easy,just get er done,with nothing to fix"
try using a new major product in a H.O. or G.C home,or that your going to leave a newbie to do it,and tell me if they don't care?????
professional plus one part business
half right
so why come to this site if your not willing to share or spin ideas ,advice for tool repairs,methods etc....why then?????


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## McDusty

again, to get back on track...

80 - 100 grit for rough sands (between coats)
120 - whatever you feel does the job you want, for finish sand.

i do not like any sander with a softish padding, eg: radius 360, because they sand around hi spots giving the appearance that it's sanded flat but in reality it isn't. anyone that has done body prep on a car will know that you don't use a soft backed, radius sander to get flat surfaces. you only use a radius/oscillating sander to 'scuff' a surface ready for paint, NOT TO SAND IMPERFECTIONS FLAT. to get a flat surface, you use a flat sander with very little give in the backing and sand with the imperfections/joints/beads/butts, not in a circular motion over them. doing that, and the opposite of whatever cpt. drywall says, will get you a desired result.


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## 2buckcanuck

McDusty said:


> again, to get back on track...
> 
> 80 - 100 grit for rough sands (between coats)
> 120 - whatever you feel does the job you want, for finish sand.
> 
> i do not like any sander with a softish padding, eg: radius 360, because they sand around hi spots giving the appearance that it's sanded flat but in reality it isn't. anyone that has done body prep on a car will know that you don't use a soft backed, radius sander to get flat surfaces. you only use a radius/oscillating sander to 'scuff' a surface ready for paint, NOT TO SAND IMPERFECTIONS FLAT. to get a flat surface, you use a flat sander with very little give in the backing and sand with the imperfections/joints/beads/butts, not in a circular motion over them. doing that, and the opposite of whatever cpt. drywall says, will get you a desired result.


Very excellent point with the rough sanding :thumbsup:


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## D's

... that's why the foam pad is removable. Rough sand without for flat and final sand with it for finish.


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## SlimPickins

D's said:


> ... that's why the foam pad is removable. Rough sand without for flat and final sand with it for finish.


You know, I never thought to remove the pad and just use the disk (I've seen a painter do it, I just thought he lost his pad:yes. I guess this site is good for something besides bearing witness to all the bickering after all! 

I love the radius for sanding texture (the foam just flexes and there are no sanding marks), but for finishing lightweight muds smooth it just doesn't seem to cut the mustard.


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## taper71

Sigh you guys are sounding like amatures. High spots really what do you think your flat sander is doing to the mud beside the high spots. Answer its sanding it as well. A foam backed pad will actually sand the high spot quicker than the stuff beside the high spot because it has alot more pressure being applied to the high spot taking it down quicker than the mud beside it. I use a knife to take down high spots or more professionally , I will find out what is causing it and either cut it out, or add the mud necassary to fill it and feather it straight.


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## McDusty

i'm wrong, you're wrong, we're all wrong. but mostly you. 

angle the flat sander over the high spot so that it sands only the high spot. duh. angle a circular sander over the high sp... oh wait, you can't.


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## PrairrieDogExpress

taper71 said:


> Sigh you guys are sounding like amatures. High spots really what do you think your flat sander is doing to the mud beside the high spots. Answer its sanding it as well. A foam backed pad will actually sand the high spot quicker than the stuff beside the high spot because it has alot more pressure being applied to the high spot taking it down quicker than the mud beside it. I use a knife to take down high spots or more professionally , I will find out what is causing it and either cut it out, or add the mud necassary to fill it and feather it straight.


Last I heard AB tapers didn't sand their own work. Maybe that's changed...


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## taper71

PDE Thats only in Calgary and only some companies do it. 
McDusty angling your flat sander is the way to run it or it flips on you. The 360 or black widow does not flip and it will still sand high spots flat and do it alot better and faster than your time worn old school flat sander with normal paper.


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## PrairrieDogExpress

taper71 said:


> PDE Thats only in Calgary and only some companies do it.
> McDusty angling your flat sander is the way to run it or it flips on you. The 360 or black widow does not flip and it will still sand high spots flat and do it alot better and faster than your time worn old school flat sander with normal paper.


maybe... maybe not. I cannot remember the last time I flipped. Just finished rough sanding 6500 ft in 2 hrs. (not bragging just stating) That "old school sander" is an extension of my body. 
Take a little offense when someone says my method makes me sound like an amateur. 
Use what works for you.


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## 2buckcanuck

30 years at this dirty trade,for years it was always standard practice to rough sand with a standard sanding head on a idiot stick,even finish sand that way.slowly but surely guys began to put more padding under the sander,me included.we would use carpet under lay,insulation,what ever looked cool to use,some times the pad was a inch or two thick.the muds were a b1tch to sand back then,the padded sander was better to take a edge down,so we used them to finish sand with.foam back sand paper is fairly new,(kind of)
try this,warp a piece of sand paper around a piece of plywood,then sand a lift mark.then dd stack foam backed paper and try to sand a lift mark.
no pad sands high points,while pad makes more surface contact,takes longer to knock a high point down,try it


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## SlimPickins

taper71 said:


> Sigh you guys are sounding like amatures. High spots really what do you think your flat sander is doing to the mud beside the high spots. Answer its sanding it as well. A foam backed pad will actually sand the high spot quicker than the stuff beside the high spot because it has alot more pressure being applied to the high spot taking it down quicker than the mud beside it. I use a knife to take down high spots or more professionally , I will find out what is causing it and either cut it out, or add the mud necassary to fill it and feather it straight.


Have you ever seen a finish carpenter use a flexible rubber plane to get a piece of lumber flat? Anything that conforms to the surface will not remove the material properly.

I'm a floater myself, preferring not to do too much sanding. I sand my edges, lap marks, and the fuzzy grain of the lightweight topping to make it smooth. I'd rather bust a butt 4 feet wide than grind away at some humpy dumpy. And then put a knife on it to gauge it, and sand it some more, and then put my knife on it....etc. Besides, when sanding lightweight, you get nasty layering (onionskin) when you go too far down. Best to just give it a kiss and a whisper and say goodbye.


----------



## DSJOHN

2buckcanuck said:


> your half right too,go back to the ways you did things in 1978 and tell me how much work you get.
> So your saying too, that having your own truck,tools,years of experience,reputation ,insurance,being one part salesman,keeping your word,meeting time lines,having references,means nothing ????A professional taper is the one who makes the most money with no call backs?????thats it to you guys.
> any trade gets the push,,,once they START a job.you guys are sounding like painters to me.their the ones i hear saying "I don't care weather you do it by machine,by hand,or put it on with a shovel,your job is easy,just get er done,with nothing to fix"
> try using a new major product in a H.O. or G.C home,or that your going to leave a newbie to do it,and tell me if they don't care?????
> professional plus one part business
> half right
> so why come to this site if your not willing to share or spin ideas ,advice for tool repairs,methods etc....why then?????


Whatever,just stating my opinion, I spray my jobs[not a painter tho] I hang them too, and I apply all types of plaster[NO SANDING] maybe that qualifies me as an amateur IDK,,,,and whats all the "rough coat and sanding twice stuff" --if you,re referring to cleaning the edge of some of the bead and cleaning where you picked you,re corners , yeah ! sanding everything -----I,m lost---I sand once-then spray!!!!!


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## McDusty

taper71 said:


> PDE Thats only in Calgary and only some companies do it.
> McDusty angling your flat sander is the way to run it or it flips on you. The 360 or black widow does not flip and it will still sand high spots flat and do it alot better and faster than your time worn old school flat sander with normal paper.



i can't even remember the last time mine flipped over. the flat sander only flips if you apply to much pressure or your paper is not secured tight. uramoron


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## taper71

Name calling ....I m hurt . Wow you guys are testy so do you use a PC without a foam back? The flat sander is more prone to having dust build up and little mud nuggets getting underneath the paper causing scratches in the finished product . I used one for along time and do not flip it and bang the handle on the floor to dislodge the built up crap from underneath the paper . But just as I have a cell phone and a computer today , I went with the now and use the more modern foam backed paper which doesnt get dust build up between the hard foam and the paper ánd the little mud chunks get caught in the foam where it really does no damage. Now saying that I am just offering my opinion and I m really not bashing the way you guys sand or how. Now let the name calling begine Mr. McDusty poopy pants


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## 2buckcanuck

DSJOHN said:


> Whatever,just stating my opinion, I spray my jobs[not a painter tho] I hang them too, and I apply all types of plaster[NO SANDING] maybe that qualifies me as an amateur IDK,,,,and whats all the "rough coat and sanding twice stuff" --if you,re referring to cleaning the edge of some of the bead and cleaning where you picked you,re corners , yeah ! sanding everything -----I,m lost---I sand once-then spray!!!!!


alls cool,we all got to make a living.just fun to kick up a dust storm on here instead of at work.just you tagged teamed with a certain someone who called me a Grass Hopper.
I'm not going to question your work,never seen it.this is a tougher trade than most people realize.I would not call a guy a grass hopper just b/c he don't do things my way.theres so many ways to go about this trade from start to finish,more so than any other trade in construction.some guys will knock a guy just cause he don't have all the toys and stuff.there's been some commercial sites where i was thanking god there were hand tapers on the site.they did a lot of crap that I didn't want to do.some of them guys did some really nice work.would i do it their way???????nope.would I call them pro's.....yes I would.to each his own.
but I'll still kick up a dust storm on here at drywall talk:yes:


----------



## SlimPickins

2buckcanuck said:


> alls cool,we all got to make a living.just fun to kick up a dust storm on here instead of at work.just you tagged teamed with a certain someone who called me a Grass Hopper.
> I'm not going to question your work,never seen it.this is a tougher trade than most people realize.I would not call a guy a grass hopper just b/c he don't do things my way.theres so many ways to go about this trade from start to finish,more so than any other trade in construction.some guys will knock a guy just cause he don't have all the toys and stuff.there's been some commercial sites where i was thanking god there were hand tapers on the site.they did a lot of crap that I didn't want to do.some of them guys did some really nice work.would i do it their way???????nope.would I call them pro's.....yes I would.to each his own.
> but I'll still kick up a dust storm on here at drywall talk:yes:


I happened to look online the other night at all that Apla-tech stuff, and after looking at the price tags I was glad that I only have to do small jobs where hand-taping is not a problem.

As I was working on a cluster-f*%$ commercial remodel today, I realized that I like working hourly, and I really like solving problems. One of the carpenters said "I keep looking for a serious personality defect in you, you're not high strung and 'colorful' like all the other drywallers I've seen".


----------



## DSJOHN

SlimPickins said:


> I happened to look online the other night at all that Apla-tech stuff, and after looking at the price tags I was glad that I only have to do small jobs where hand-taping is not a problem.
> 
> As I was working on a cluster-f*%$ commercial remodel today, I realized that I like working hourly, and I really like solving problems. One of the carpenters said "I keep looking for a serious personality defect in you, you're not high strung and 'colorful' like all the other drywallers I've seen".


When business was booming I bought the Apla-tech setup thought I could add 3 or 4 more houses in the year ,thus paying for itself quickly, It ended up being a very expensive corner tool, well, on commercial its fine[300 sheets or more] but I,m not happy with it,thinking of selling it on e-bay!!!!!:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> alls cool,we all got to make a living.just fun to kick up a dust storm on here instead of at work.just you tagged teamed with a certain someone who called me a Grass Hopper.
> I'm not going to question your work,never seen it.this is a tougher trade than most people realize.I would not call a guy a grass hopper just b/c he don't do things my way.theres so many ways to go about this trade from start to finish,more so than any other trade in construction.some guys will knock a guy just cause he don't have all the toys and stuff.there's been some commercial sites where i was thanking god there were hand tapers on the site.they did a lot of crap that I didn't want to do.some of them guys did some really nice work.would i do it their way???????nope.would I call them pro's.....yes I would.to each his own.
> but I'll still kick up a dust storm on here at drywall talk:yes:


 TwoBucks,,, You obviously think I am trailor-trash, since I don't agree with you. I am assuming that since I don't agree with you, that you think I only do small, cheap, crappy work.

Thats cool, butt with your own head !!!!!!

If you just want everyone to agree that you know all the answers and your way is the only right way,, then call everyone trailor-trash.


----------



## SlimPickins

DSJOHN said:


> When business was booming I bought the Apla-tech setup thought I could add 3 or 4 more houses in the year ,thus paying for itself quickly, It ended up being a very expensive corner tool, well, on commercial its fine[300 sheets or more] but I,m not happy with it,thinking of selling it on e-bay!!!!!:whistling2:


Yeah, I can imagine it would be a plus on large scale production work, like big commercial, apartments/condos, or booming subdivisions...but we are dead around here for work of that nature. I'm picking up more and more work where people are moving a couple of rooms around or finishing their basements, etc. Not really jobs that would require pumped mud!

Oh, and sandpaper something or other (just to stay on topic )


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## DSJOHN

I,m kinda still not understanding the more than one time sanding guys are talking about? I sand once,im a "drywaller[install ,finish,sand,prime] not just a finisher!!!!


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## SlimPickins

DSJOHN said:


> I,m kinda still not understanding the more than one time sanding guys are talking about? I sand once,im a "drywaller[install ,finish,sand,prime] not just a finisher!!!!


 Do you just run over your lapmarks then? If I sand between top and skim, it's just a quicker way to knock down lap/float ridges and kick the boogers off the beads so I don't have chatter. It takes a negligible amount of time, a little longer than it takes to walk through the rooms really. I'm also a "drywaller", but very little priming, mostly smooth and hand textures. I'm also a "carpenter", and "designer" (CADD). 95% of my work is drywall.


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## Capt-sheetrock

DSJOHN said:


> I,m kinda still not understanding the more than one time sanding guys are talking about? I sand once,im a "drywaller[install ,finish,sand,prime] not just a finisher!!!!


 You only sand once????

You must be trailor trash too,,,,:thumbsup:


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## JustMe

With sanding my 1st coat, I've been trying lately more of what I call 'shadow sanding' - where I sand the 1st coat back till the edges of the tops of bevels are showing through; till parts of bead can be showing through; till the tapes on butt joints are showing through; ...... . But I'm not sanding back to the point where they're coming through. I do that with a 120 grit - or 150, if out of 120 - with no backing on it, to cut things quite flat.

My 2nd coat is usually a pretty thin coat, and goes nicely on the 1st coat when I've sanded things that way. Things finish sand out nicely - no ridges caused by sanding back into the 1st coat or anything. For sanding the 2nd coat, I'll use something like Joest 180 grit, which has a little backing to the pad - just enough that I don't leave many scratches from the paper itself.

Then using a handheld light, I'll sponge out any left behind imperfections.

=====

A btw: I don't 'shadow sand' back to both sides of the edges of bevels when one board is higher than the other. I will shadow sand back to one side - the high side - and feather things out on the lower side.


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## Bill from Indy

since were kicking up dust...maybe you guys that run the 12 have to sand your flats FLAT so you can run that big heavy 12....lol...j/k guys

i only sand once.....maybe im from the "park" too?

edit*
I take that back...I "sometimes" run a pole from end to end on glazed angles to knock globs off before pumping them in...yep...still use the ole angle box too


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## Capt-sheetrock

Bill from Indy said:


> since were kicking up dust...maybe you guys that run the 12 have to sand your flats FLAT so you can run that big heavy 12....lol...j/k guys
> 
> i only sand once.....maybe im from the "park" too?
> 
> edit*
> I take that back...I "sometimes" run a pole from end to end on glazed angles to knock globs off before pumping them in...yep...still use the ole angle box too


Me too, I speed sand my angles before running the finish coat, and sometimes I "brush" the beads with an idot stick before the finish coat. 

So maybe we are "double-wide" trailor trash???:thumbsup:


----------



## JustMe

Bill from Indy said:


> since were kicking up dust...maybe you guys that run the 12 have to sand your flats FLAT so you can run that big heavy 12....lol...j/k guys
> 
> i only sand once.....maybe im from the "park" too?
> 
> edit*
> I take that back...I "sometimes" run a pole from end to end on glazed angles to knock globs off before pumping them in...yep...still use the ole angle box too


Yeah, a 12" FatBoy can get a little much at times. Why I stepped back to a 'normal' 12".

I sand twice, the 1st being more 'intense' than what I used to do. Before, the 1st was pretty much a skiff sand.

The more intense 1st cuts down on the 2nd sand, and better helps me 'disappear' the flats, butt joints, ........ . Painters have more moved to often just painting things without my doing checkout on their prime. They seem more willing to do whatever touchups are necessary, instead of waiting for me to come back.


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> TwoBucks,,, You obviously think I am trailor-trash, since I don't agree with you. I am assuming that since I don't agree with you, that you think I only do small, cheap, crappy work.
> 
> Thats cool, butt with your own head !!!!!!
> 
> If you just want everyone to agree that you know all the answers and your way is the only right way,, then call everyone trailor-trash.


ooooooowww a straw man argument,you attack at me twice,I fire back at you....now you try to involve every one,trying to say I call everyone on here trailer trash,nice try...hoping to start a tag team.
at least I'm brave enough to post a pic of my work,then you diss it.I disagree with one PART!!!!!of one of your statements ,then you attack by calling me grass hopper/newbie because I use a 12" box.odd statement from a guy that didnt use a bazooka for the 1st 20 years of taping......hhhmmmm horse and buggy,who always says that????
go back to the nail "spooter" thread where you stated you wouldn't get away with running the spotter through your flats,the H.O and G.C wouldn't like it.....hhhmmm?guess what they like in my area...12"box.
and who is it that started calling a pole sander a idiot stick,cute at 1st,but what your really saying is anyone who doesn't use a power sander is a IDIOT.
YOU started the name calling and insults,IT's you who doesn't like it if someone don't agree with you :furious:


----------



## Mudstar

2buckcanuck said:


> ooooooowww a straw man argument,you attack at me twice,I fire back at you....now you try to involve every one,trying to say I call everyone on here trailer trash,nice try...hoping to start a tag team.
> at least I'm brave enough to post a pic of my work,then you diss it.I disagree with one PART!!!!!of one of your statements ,then you attack by calling me grass hopper/newbie because I use a 12" box.odd statement from a guy that didnt use a bazooka for the 1st 20 years of taping......hhhmmmm horse and buggy,who always says that????
> go back to the nail "spooter" thread where you stated you wouldn't get away with running the spotter through your flats,the H.O and G.C wouldn't like it.....hhhmmm?guess what they like in my area...12"box.
> and who is it that started calling a pole sander a idiot stick,cute at 1st,but what your really saying is anyone who doesn't use a power sander is a IDIOT.
> YOU started the name calling and insults,IT's you who doesn't like it if someone don't agree with you :furious:


Don't be a hypocrite now, we all have are methods of getting our point across.

Grasshopper was mine and it was intent was to say, one that wants to know will learn from masters like my self only because he has the drive not give up and will become one of the masters him self one day.


----------



## DSJOHN

SlimPickins said:


> Do you just run over your lapmarks then? If I sand between top and skim, it's just a quicker way to knock down lap/float ridges and kick the boogers off the beads so I don't have chatter. It takes a negligible amount of time, a little longer than it takes to walk through the rooms really. I'm also a "drywaller", but very little priming, mostly smooth and hand textures. I'm also a "carpenter", and "designer" (CADD). 95% of my work is drywall.


We all coat out different,I almost always ,if there is one, drop my lap mark [on ceiling] into a butt,and when coating the butt I scrape it with a 6" knife and I have a sanding sponge with me,2 or 3 seconds of sanding[all tools still in my hands and on to the next,I dont have any lap marks on my wall flats;really!I coat my bead[paperfaced metal] 1st coat with ezsand leaving lap mark in flat,on second[final ] coat I scrape it and sponge[all of 6 or 8 seconds of my time!!! We all coat different,sand different,and prime different, is the outcome the same? We hope so, NO ONE person has it to an exact science[including me] If any of us are making a living at it and have been at it for 10years or more,we,re doing something right!!!!! :yes: Ive tried many new things over the years,but when a method I find to work for me cant be beat[to me,its sanding with a PC] why change? If I can find my old PC 304 sander I used before the PC7800 I,ll try to post a picture-- Ive been power sanding since 1978 and will never hand sand ,, its like putting your bazooka in the garage and hand taping,just not smart IMO


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## JustMe

Mudstar said:


> Don't be a hypocrite now, we all have are methods of getting our point across.
> 
> Grasshopper was mine and it was intent was to say, one that wants to know will learn from masters like my self only because he has the drive not give up and will become one of the masters him self one day.


Since 2buck is getting into logical fallacies with his 'straw man' (don't know how he missed 'hasty generalization')  :

I've been put with a few 'masters' over the last almost 2 years now. The 1st one really was worthy of the term 'idiot'.

One 'master' - someone who's been doing finishing for about 25 years now (it's all he knows how to do) - told me the other month "If you had 5 years or more in, more people would listen to you". I told him that was based on the logical fallacy of 'appeal to authority', and that based on his argument, we should just go to the guy with the most time in, and follow his ways (which is someone else, and who does some things somewhat differently from what he does). It left him with his lips and arms flapping, but nothing coming out.

As for 12"ing, one reason I do it is because the board flats can be higher on one side than on the other, which I've already mentioned. This can be with both lay downs and standups - especially with standups, where the (usually metal) framing often 'twists' a bit when being screwed to. A 12" can usually let me work that high/low out well enough, without having to pull out the knives.

And a 12" seems easier to feather out than 10" (for me).

And my company's clients feel better about 12". Not that it's necessarily necessary at all times, but at least they're not getting out the magnifying glass so much, as they might if I only 10"d. Perceptions are people's reality, even if those perceptions aren't based on reality.

But that's just me and my situation, at this time.


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## PrairrieDogExpress

2buckcanuck said:


> ooooooowww a straw man argument,you attack at me twice,I fire back at you....now you try to involve every one,trying to say I call everyone on here trailer trash,nice try...hoping to start a tag team.
> at least I'm brave enough to post a pic of my work,then you diss it.I disagree with one PART!!!!!of one of your statements ,then you attack by calling me grass hopper/newbie because I use a 12" box.odd statement from a guy that didnt use a bazooka for the 1st 20 years of taping......hhhmmmm horse and buggy,who always says that????
> go back to the nail "spooter" thread where you stated you wouldn't get away with running the spotter through your flats,the H.O and G.C wouldn't like it.....hhhmmm?guess what they like in my area...12"box.
> and who is it that started calling a pole sander a idiot stick,cute at 1st,but what your really saying is anyone who doesn't use a power sander is a IDIOT.
> YOU started the name calling and insults,IT's you who doesn't like it if someone don't agree with you :furious:


YUP:thumbsup:


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## Scott_w

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a pic from today,floors look clean?????


Nice! :thumbup: You should have seen the house I did with the autotools the first time! I had globs of mud all over the floor! On my head, everywhere! 

Definately was a learning curve! I don't do enough to get as fast as you guys, but still enjoy the tools!

scott


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## McDusty

if you are running an 8 then 10, why not just run a 6" box 2x? that should fill your bevel and make you a nice flat surface because all the drywall & framing in the house is perfectly square & level. an 8 & 10" is over-kill, why waste your time when a 6" will do the same job.

then your sander could cover the whole joint at once, wow that would be a nice finish. while your at it, go 'wide open' on that 6" to cover your butt joints, as long as the tape is covered, that means it's flat. you could coat a whole house with 1 box of mud, think of the cost savings as well. 

gotta run, my horse & buggy are waiting for me to go down to the general store to fetch me some corn & maple syrup. yeeee haaaaw!


----------



## SlimPickins

DSJOHN said:


> We all coat out different,I almost always ,if there is one, drop my lap mark [on ceiling] into a butt,and when coating the butt I scrape it with a 6" knife and I have a sanding sponge with me,2 or 3 seconds of sanding[all tools still in my hands and on to the next,I dont have any lap marks on my wall flats;really!I coat my bead[paperfaced metal] 1st coat with ezsand leaving lap mark in flat,on second[final ] coat I scrape it and sponge[all of 6 or 8 seconds of my time!!! We all coat different,sand different,and prime different, is the outcome the same? We hope so, NO ONE person has it to an exact science[including me] If any of us are making a living at it and have been at it for 10years or more,we,re doing something right!!!!! :yes: Ive tried many new things over the years,but when a method I find to work for me cant be beat[to me,its sanding with a PC] why change? If I can find my old PC 304 sander I used before the PC7800 I,ll try to post a picture-- Ive been power sanding since 1978 and will never hand sand ,, its like putting your bazooka in the garage and hand taping,just not smart IMO


I wasn't trying to criticize with my question, I was curious. I know some finishers that don't sand or scrape in between coats, but that's all subdivision work with a heavy knockdown. Due to the size of my jobs, everything is coated by hand so I have a few more lap marks than I would like, but I try to pull out of my fresh work rather than into it, then I can run back through when it's firm and fill the little bit that needs it. I learned from a buddy of mine about lap mark placement a few years ago, putting them at butt joints, etc...it's a good time saver for sure. Personally, I like to spend just a little bit of time running through before skim with a pole, then it's all coating and I don't have to break my flow. I'm a little obsessive about following a system, and having the perfect consistency of mud for each task (for example, I won't spot screws while doing flat work or metal so I don't have to deal with gummy mud). Then, come angle time, I touch everything up that can possibly be done so sanding is not a big deal. I would waaaay rather put mud on than take it off!:yes:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Mudstar said:


> Don't be a hypocrite now, we all have are methods of getting our point across.
> 
> Grasshopper was mine and it was intent was to say, one that wants to know will learn from masters like my self only because he has the drive not give up and will become one of the masters him self one day.


aaahhhwwwww sounds like your being nice to grass hopper,you do like cazna,and cazna (gh) has had many chances to name call you and me,but he didn't.
but you go 7" -10" then TWELVE INCH,your coating out half the the bloody wall,dare I call you grass hopper.
tag,your it.....just got to be flat ya know:thumbsup:


----------



## DSJOHN

Slim,tough to figure people out thru a computer screen--No malice intended on my part,, all was meant in a peaceful voice--- We,re all individuals doing things slightly different,trying to accomplish the same result--My opinion is that 95% of the Posters on here are great at what they do[because of spammers] or the # would be higher.


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## 2buckcanuck

from what I see with rough sanding,most guys who use the machines barely sand,because machines run true (no ripples etc),when doing flats their going at a walking pace,stopping at lift marks,same goes for angles,your getting outside lines,dirt,mud blops,stuff you don't want to catch in your blades!!!!!you could technically scrap,but sanding is faster.but when it comes to beads and maybe butts (depends on how u do them)you put more muscle into your sanding.hand work,does not run as true as machines,theres more ripples and waves and stuff that appear,depending upon your experience of coarse.I personally find rough sanding makes for a easy finish sand,less surprises when checking with light too!!!!
---On opposite side,I see the Frenchmen who only use a trowel ,6" knife,and keep their mud bucket by them ,no hawk ,to do every thing.they brag they don't half to sand ,b/c their work is so smooth (they scrap alot) ,but then they got a labourer to finish sand every thing.bet you guessed hour working union taper.
---just trying to show the two extremes,some guys total machines,some total hand work,some half and half etc,guys have their ways,difference with sanding then.
butt one little example,if I coat a flat by hand,I tend to rough sand it more than one coated buy box ,then throw in different mud types,you have a whole new thread to start imo


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## Capt-sheetrock

2buckcanuck said:


> ooooooowww a straw man argument,you attack at me twice,I fire back at you....now you try to involve every one,trying to say I call everyone on here trailer trash,nice try...hoping to start a tag team.
> at least I'm brave enough to post a pic of my work,then you diss it.I disagree with one PART!!!!!of one of your statements ,then you attack by calling me grass hopper/newbie because I use a 12" box.odd statement from a guy that didnt use a bazooka for the 1st 20 years of taping......hhhmmmm horse and buggy,who always says that????
> go back to the nail "spooter" thread where you stated you wouldn't get away with running the spotter through your flats,the H.O and G.C wouldn't like it.....hhhmmm?guess what they like in my area...12"box.
> and who is it that started calling a pole sander a idiot stick,cute at 1st,but what your really saying is anyone who doesn't use a power sander is a IDIOT.
> YOU started the name calling and insults,IT's you who doesn't like it if someone don't agree with you :furious:


 Since you have all the answers, and know the only "ONE TRUE" way to finish drywall. I will bow out and leave it to you. :thumbsup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Since you have all the answers, and know the only "ONE TRUE" way to finish drywall. I will bow out and leave it to you. :thumbsup:


people can read into what they want,don't say I know every thing,most of your post are good,people can judge mine if they want,we get in a little disagreement ,you attack my ways then name call.
right after you posted pic with you and your dog,some of your post became more mean spirited in the last couple of weeks ,What ,your dog die or something,so now you want to kick me
post away man,but you want to keep coming at me,fine,I'm game


----------



## Bill from Indy

2buckcanuck said:


> people can read into what they want,don't say I know every thing,most of your post are good,people can judge mine if they want,we get in a little disagreement ,you attack my ways then name call.
> right after you posted pic with you and your dog,some of your post became more mean spirited in the last couple of weeks ,What ,your dog die or something,so now you want to kick me
> post away man,but you want to keep coming at me,fine,I'm game


not my place to say, but yes, there was a death in family and it wasn't a dog...I doubt really that is his reasoning for reacting the way he does...just the way he is...he'll call a bluff and has had his differences with me and I am fine with that...everyone has there ways...but to be honest, you do come in here in a "preaching" manner so to speak sometimes

I don't have a problem with you and don't plan to...just not my way.....I come in here to cut up and poke sometimes, but it is just for fun...I think of it as a jobsite kinda where finishers hang around and just shoot the **** so to speak...

I was joking about the 12 thing...I run it when I have to, but generally, I run 8-10...as for the twisted board issues on metal....hire hangers that know how to hang on metal...you will get it from time to time...I hit them with a knife if really bad when i'm running bead or hand work


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> Since 2buck is getting into logical fallacies with his 'straw man' (don't know how he missed 'hasty generalization')  :
> 
> I've been put with a few 'masters' over the last almost 2 years now. The 1st one really was worthy of the term 'idiot'.
> 
> One 'master' - someone who's been doing finishing for about 25 years now (it's all he knows how to do) - told me the other month "If you had 5 years or more in, more people would listen to you". I told him that was based on the logical fallacy of 'appeal to authority', and that based on his argument, we should just go to the guy with the most time in, and follow his ways (which is someone else, and who does some things somewhat differently from what he does). It left him with his lips and arms flapping, but nothing coming out.
> 
> As for 12"ing, one reason I do it is because the board flats can be higher on one side than on the other, which I've already mentioned. This can be with both lay downs and standups - especially with standups, where the (usually metal) framing often 'twists' a bit when being screwed to. A 12" can usually let me work that high/low out well enough, without having to pull out the knives.
> 
> And a 12" seems easier to feather out than 10" (for me).
> 
> And my company's clients feel better about 12". Not that it's necessarily necessary at all times, but at least they're not getting out the magnifying glass so much, as they might if I only 10"d. Perceptions are people's reality, even if those perceptions aren't based on reality.
> 
> But that's just me and my situation, at this time.


 Great post,,,,, we have to look at each job for what it is,,, and factor in the people we are doing it for, and what they want out of it.

There is more than one way to skin a cat,,,,,,

Disclaimer: The cat ain't gonna like any of em !!!!!


----------



## DSJOHN

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Great post,,,,, we have to look at each job for what it is,,, and factor in the people we are doing it for, and what they want out of it.
> 
> There is more than one way to skin a cat,,,,,,
> 
> Disclaimer: The cat ain't gonna like any of em !!!!!


Some like the cat shaved others prefer natural--


----------



## JustMe

Bill from Indy said:


> I was joking about the 12 thing...I run it when I have to, but generally, I run 8-10...as for the twisted board issues on metal....hire hangers that know how to hang on metal...you will get it from time to time...I hit them with a knife if really bad when i'm running bead or hand work


I knew there was joking in there, Bill, and my replies aren't to be taken as me being serious minded about all this.

I really don't take things as seriously anymore when it comes to drywall - although I do like trying to do a good enough job that doesn't require callbacks, and get chargebacks to the company from the painters. The company is a client of mine (the way I see it), and within reason, I try to do what I can for it. 

But my newer motto to the bosses the last while has been "Quantity is the new quality" (me having a bit of fun with them. Sort of.). I get told "NO NO NO. Don't think like that". BUt THen they want volume. I'm so confused. :blink: 

As for the hangers, not my place to hire them. Most all are good or pretty good, but even they can have problems with things like what they're now calling steel studs, and especially when production is really being called for at times. But the 12" does seem to do well enough most often in taking care of it, if I sand things out right enough.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

DSJOHN said:


> Some like the cat shaved others prefer natural--


 Your ONE SICK PUPPY !!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:


----------



## Bill from Indy

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Your ONE SICK PUPPY !!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:



here kitty kitty

just me....i know what you mean..i was doing a job for a drywall contractor (me a sub) and went in when hangers were still there....don't know if you guys use what is called eliminator track there, but 90% of my work here is...anyways...9ft walls...board laid down with rip on bottom...they had the eliminator all jacked up and no slap studs tied in...i called boss and said you need to get out here before i fire up the tube....first words out of his mouth was do what you can do....we budgeted the job cheap and i had to get cheap hangers....my immediate reply was you probably should call a cheap finisher then cause im not interested

contractors want to cut the job but don't want to cut there margin...they think subs will do it for less and make same $...this is the main reason I don't sub anymore besides the fact that our jobs are being "outsourced"

but on a side note and totally off topic, i see that 23 other states are jumping on board with arizona on the anti immigration bill and mine is one of them:jester:


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## SlimPickins

Bill from Indy said:


> here kitty kitty
> 
> ....don't know if you guys use what is called eliminator track there, but 90% of my work here is...anyways...9ft walls...board laid down with rip on bottom...


I've never heard of eliminator track...pretty neat stuff judging from the video I just watched. I was curious when I saw you say "board laid down with a rip at the bottom"....is there a specific reason why you don't use 54" rock and eliminate a joint? I could imagine that you'd have the hangers rip the recess off the top for easier finishing, but if you have to flat tape the top anyway it seems like it would be just as well to leave the recess. I'm certainly not being critical, just trying to become educated on a process that's foreign to me.


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## 2buckcanuck

just guessing,but it could be just one of the reasons why he left the job,


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## Bill from Indy

2buckcanuck said:


> just guessing,but it could be just one of the reasons why he left the job,


one..yes your right...all tenant finish is stand up...unless you get into demising walls or finishing to the deck...imagine a hallway of a doctors office....say it is 150ft long and has 10 doors down the hall with 10 exam rooms...the 150ft wall will be solid and the partition walls in the exam room...not technically partitions, but we will say for example, are tied into the hallway...dividing walls of office exam rooms...where the partition meets the hallway wall, that stud in corner that will make an inside corner is called a slapper or floater...you hang the board through the wall to where the 150ft wall is solid..push the stud against wall and screw it in...this ties the corner together and makes that corner solid...you can guess what it does when the corner stud isnt solid?....yep...you go to roll your angles that you just ran with the tube...all 40 of them (10 rooms x 4) and your tape sucks up in the corner and disappears...

I won't say it is impossible to finish this situation with the board laid down, but 99% of the time it is jacked

you cannot hang the board tight to the track..you get it too tight and it pushes up on the grid..i'll let you imagine what this looks like with standard tile, let alone reveal...


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## SlimPickins

Out here we call the angle studs that fasten after the first wall is hung "slammers", and that's just plain messed up that none of them were hit...I feel your pain.


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## McDusty

i've taped on 3 different continents in 3 very different climates, materials, building practices... i've yet to come across a room that is framed perfectly square.


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## Mudstar

McDusty said:


> i've taped on 3 different continents in 3 very different climates, materials, building practices... i've yet to come across a room that is framed perfectly square.


Is that your excuse?


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## McDusty

excuse? not sure, but it's the reason that an 8 & 10 are to small.


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## Mudstar

McDusty said:


> excuse? not sure, but it's the reason that an 8 & 10 are to small.



Sounds like your method using the 8 and 10 are not doing the job for you.

I could tell you that you might be forgetting something but you might get offended.

The best way to avoid a poor out come is to do what it takes to make the walls flat. That could be 2 coats in some areas and 4 coats in others.

Also running boxes strait down the joints does not always work.

ask 2buck he knows.

JS


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## McDusty

i don't even own an 8". it would be the most useless tool in my box, i'm pointing out the fact that an 8" and 10" are to small.

and you run a flat down the middle unless there is a high side. then you run it as far away from the high side as possible while still covering the shoulder of said high side.


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## SlimPickins

Mudstar said:


> The best way to avoid a poor out come is to do what it takes to make the walls flat.
> 
> JS


:thumbup: Yeah, that sounds about right.


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## 2buckcanuck

Mudstar said:


> Sounds like your method using the 8 and 10 are not doing the job for you.
> 
> I could tell you that you might be forgetting something but you might get offended.
> 
> The best way to avoid a poor out come is to do what it takes to make the walls flat. That could be 2 coats in some areas and 4 coats in others.
> 
> Also running boxes strait down the joints does not always work.
> 
> ask 2buck he knows.
> 
> JS


well thank you mudstar:thumbup:I think:whistling2:
should see this dumb little basement were doing,looks like a drunk ran the boxes,thats how bad the joints are.and of coarse it painted ceilings.out comes the hand tools


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## JustMe

2buckcanuck said:


> should see this dumb little basement were doing,looks like a drunk ran the boxes,thats how bad the joints are.and of coarse it painted ceilings.out comes the hand tools


I'll trade you. You should see all the high/low spots the flats of a large 11' ceiling I'm doing in a new commercial building has. And they want it and everything else ready for paint by Friday. And the 2 other tapers who were supposed to show up there today got diverted. So it's justme. :blink:


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## 2buckcanuck

JustMe said:


> I'll trade you. You should see all the high/low spots the flats of a large 11' ceiling I'm doing in a new commercial building has. And they want it and everything else ready for paint by Friday. And the 2 other tapers who were supposed to show up there today got diverted. So it's justme. :blink:


same here,kid missed yesterday,hugged toilet today puking all day,think he had molson flu (Budweiser flu for yanks,foster flu kiwi's) told him to take tomorrow off,it's just a basement though so.nice change of pace,,tired
it's nice and peaceful with out him there,get to read news paper in full,drink lots of coffee,listen to talk radio all day,no music blasting full blast all day
dear god I'm getting old


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> same here,kid missed yesterday,hugged toilet today puking all day,think he had molson flu (Budweiser flu for yanks,foster flu kiwi's) told him to take tomorrow off,it's just a basement though so.nice change of pace,,tired
> it's nice and peaceful with out him there,get to read news paper in full,drink lots of coffee,listen to talk radio all day,no music blasting full blast all day
> dear god I'm getting old


 
No, Thats foster flu for ozzies, Monteiths, DB, or speights for kiwis :thumbup:


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## SlimPickins

cazna said:


> No, Thats foster flu for ozzies, Monteiths, DB, or speights for kiwis :thumbup:


We call it Brown Bottle Flu...sounds exotic and dangerous doesn't it?


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## jeffqc

[where i can buy joest paper disk for porter cable sander in canada


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## betterdrywall

I think this is the last home me and Charlie worked on together from start to finish. Here's rotten azz charlie himself..


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## moore

2buckcanuck said:


> here's a pic from today,floors look clean?????


floors are clean, but have you put the last coat on yet? that butt joint looks a little rough.:whistling2:


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## mudslingr

Here's my favourite. One sheet from start to finish if I don't snag and tear it.:yes:


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## mudslingr

About 15 years ago there was some real nice paper on a roll. It was 150grit, red and made in Croatia. Wish they still had it around. Like everything else that's any good, it just seems to have faded away. Anyone seen it around ?


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## smisner50s

Was it called carbaradom


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## 2buckcanuck

mudslingr said:


> About 15 years ago there was some real nice paper on a roll. It was 150grit, red and made in Croatia. Wish they still had it around. Like everything else that's any good, it just seems to have faded away. Anyone seen it around ?


that was excellent paper,the stuff lasted forever too,it had a small ugly print of a porcupine on the back did it not ?????


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## mudslingr

Not sure what it was called or logo design. Bought 2 rolls that lasted about 3 years and never saw it again.


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## Bill from Indy

mudslingr said:


> Here's my favourite. One sheet from start to finish if I don't snag and tear it.:yes:


That's the stuff i was referring to...I get it in a 50yd roll though cause it is cheaper than the precuts...im a cheap ass and guys don't seem to waste it as bad off the roll...we used to use a yellow paper too and i can't remember the name of the stuff now...but it was bought out then turned to paper I wouldn't wipe with

never seen the red stuff...used to use some red stuff that was on photo film paper...like a plastic...stuff lasted forever..ungodly cost though...a box of 15 sheets precut was as much of a 50yd roll of the blue if i remember right...

i remember now....golden touch was the name of the yellow stuff


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## SlimPickins

Bill from Indy said:


> That's the stuff i was referring to...I get it in a 50yd roll though cause it is cheaper than the precuts...im a cheap ass and guys don't seem to waste it as bad off the roll...we used to use a yellow paper too and i can't remember the name of the stuff now...but it was bought out then turned to paper I wouldn't wipe with
> 
> never seen the red stuff...used to use some red stuff that was on photo film paper...like a plastic...stuff lasted forever..ungodly cost though...a box of 15 sheets precut was as much of a 50yd roll of the blue if i remember right...
> 
> i remember now....golden touch was the name of the yellow stuff


I've used some of that film-back paper, it's really nice for sanding level 5. The guy who had it said for some reason it's great for knocking down humps (although I never understood what the actual paper would have to do with that, being of the mind that it's the backer behind the paper....right?)

As far as flavor of sandpaper goes, it all tastes like sh!t.:yes:


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## DSJOHN

smisner50s said:


> Was it called carbaradom


:thumbsup:

Used that for years around here--80,s and 90,s---cant find it anymore--great stuff


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## cazna

Well Mr Rough sander between coats, Im only going to say this once as its really going to hurt, but you were right.  Yeah that did hurt.


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Well Mr Rough sander between coats, Im only going to say this once as its really going to hurt, but you were right.  Yeah that did hurt.


I wont even throw mud in your face on this one cazna ,After reading post on how things are done in kiwi land ,I was like wow ,and to think I always wanted to move to kiwi or Aussie land when I was younger .Good thing I didn't ,you guys would of set me back years in this trade .
Still going to keep telling sheep jokes though .


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## cazna

2buckcanuck said:


> I wont even throw mud in your face on this one cazna ,After reading post on how things are done in kiwi land ,I was like wow ,and to think I always wanted to move to kiwi or Aussie land when I was younger .Good thing I didn't ,you guys would of set me back years in this trade .
> Still going to keep telling sheep jokes though .


Lol, You would have loved it here 2buck, but a dumb arse trowel swinger you may have been :thumbsup:

I rough sanded between coats with the flex edge sander with there fine grit foam pad which is about 120g, the next coats were smoother and flatter and less time picking at the blades, My intro to the tools was john lumans dvds and he seems to just dry scrape so monkey see monkey do, but do you dust it down after sanding, on the final sand i notcied i must have coated over the dust and some small areas the final coat came away, it wasnt stuck, I was using sheetrock midweight and a final sand of 180g, its quite soft so i dared not go any courser.


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## moore

3M extra large sanding sponge for finish sanding, fine side. love my 360 for sanding seams before skim, but the 220 for the 360 seams to coarse for the finish sanding. anything below 150 should not touch wallboard before the paint.


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## carpentaper

i never brush my joints off. i've never had mud come off from dust from rough sanding. it might be worth doing though if it proves to be a continuous problem.


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## 2buckcanuck

cazna said:


> Lol, You would have loved it here 2buck, but a dumb arse trowel swinger you may have been :thumbsup:
> 
> I rough sanded between coats with the flex edge sander with there fine grit foam pad which is about 120g, the next coats were smoother and flatter and less time picking at the blades, My intro to the tools was john lumans dvds and he seems to just dry scrape so monkey see monkey do, but do you dust it down after sanding, on the final sand i notcied i must have coated over the dust and some small areas the final coat came away, it wasnt stuck, I was using sheetrock midweight and a final sand of 180g, its quite soft so i dared not go any courser.


I like being a dumb arse trowel swinger,just no money in it
No we don't dust it down after sanding,I would say majority of dust falls to the ground .Sounds to me it could be your material,you guys were saying it's junk (i think) .Or you guys where guessing it was sub - par to ours .We have a mud called machine mud here,it tends to flake of for no reason .So we don't use it,and for other reasons too .
I would say you should be able to get away with 120 grit , but skip the pad .The un-padded sanding head will knock down high points better .With the machine work (boxes/angles)your sanding to take away junk so it don't catch in your blades (like you said) .for example,on the ceilings we just walk the joints,dragging the pole sander along the edge at a 45 degree angle .We stop walking when we come to a lift mark and give it a few swipes till it's gone .Your just gliding over your work .
hand work ,like beads,we put more muscle into it,hand work don't run true like the machines do (boxes) There tends to be more ripples and high points etc in hand work .
We just use 80 grit (sometimes 100) b/c you can put less effort in the sanding ,and you can get more distance out of your paper .But for you cazna,I don't think you should use 80 grit,by the sounds of your material down under there,you might rip the paper right off the rock:yes:
by the way cazna,did you ever own a pet sheep when you were young


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## cazna

Thanks for that, The Midweight is quite dusty and it tends to cling, Nope sorry to disapoint i never had a pet sheep, I come from a commercil fishing famliy not a farming one, and i dont bang fish either??

Actually that reminds me of a story when i was unloading a boat once and the guy i was working with in the freezer starting looking at a gutted fish a bit funny, It was a stargazer fish, Anyway he reckoned if he was at sea long enough, a jug of warm water and that fish would serve his needs?? And no i didnt give it a go


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## Bevelation

Wet-Kut 150, 180, 240. I have them in the sheets by package and the big rolls.

I used to use 80 and 100 grit for rough sanding. I have since tightened up on my technique and made far fewer lift-offs (aka stop marks) and am running 7/10/12" boxes, I just use 150 a little here, a little there.

In reference to those that think a 10" is good to finish with; yeah I agree. My 10" run looks good enough to call it done and ready to sand tomorrow. But I just like the butter smooth finish of the 12" now that it's all set up right. I can't say no to 30 minutes of running the box once more for a trade-off of -1 hour of sanding.


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## mudslingr

I think I just discovered my new favourite paper. A company from Toronto is up here building a clothing store and got me and a buddy to tape it. The boss suggested I try this stuff. It has a yellow foam backing and the paper is some type of cloth. And it sands like that Croatian paper that disappeared.
It felt kind of weird at first but I got used to it quickly. Also noticed I don't really have to push against the wall as hard as normal.
I like it ! :thumbup: Now if I can only get my supplier to order some.

Man I hate being 10 years behind !


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## 2buckcanuck

mudslingr said:


> I think I just discovered my new favourite paper. A company from Toronto is up here building a clothing store and got me and a buddy to tape it. The boss suggested I try this stuff. It has a yellow foam backing and the paper is some type of cloth. And it sands like that Croatian paper that disappeared.
> It felt kind of weird at first but I got used to it quickly. Also noticed I don't really have to push against the wall as hard as normal.
> I like it ! :thumbup: Now if I can only get my supplier to order some.
> 
> Man I hate being 10 years behind !


That's what we use,the stuff with the white back foam is cheaper in price, It's around $29 a roll, Think the yellow is around $50. The price keeps coming down, everyone around here is using it.You can stick your paper sand paper over top of it too. It's basically the foam backing that makes a difference in the sanding. In the old days, I use to stick carpet under lay or Pink insulation under my paper. makes a huge difference in sanding.
If you can't get it up your way,let me know, ill talk to our supply store, he will mail you some. there should be no shipping cost, it's lite weight:yes:


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## mudslingr

2buckcanuck said:


> That's what we use,the stuff with the white back foam is cheaper in price, It's around $29 a roll, Think the yellow is around $50. The price keeps coming down, everyone around here is using it.You can stick your paper sand paper over top of it too. It's basically the foam backing that makes a difference in the sanding. In the old days, I use to stick carpet under lay or Pink insulation under my paper. makes a huge difference in sanding.
> If you can't get it up your way,let me know, ill talk to our supply store, he will mail you some. there should be no shipping cost, it's lite weight:yes:


Thanks 2buck ! :thumbsup: Other than the colour and price what is the difference ? How long is a roll and how is it when it gets slightly wet ?
Does your supplier have a website ?


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## 2buckcanuck

personally I get the 120 grit in the white foam,the grit seems to last longer. but I get the yellow for the 180, it is the bit better product,,,,,confuse you yet
here's their site http://interiorbuild.com/
ask for brian Tessier if you call, just say rick told you from DWT, the guy who won the box handle .Then he will set you up :thumbsup:


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## raven

when using my power sander i use joist 220 pads expensive but worth the money my second choich woud be norton 220 on power sander or 360 . i use proform blue lite or plus 3


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## Jason

tl;dr

220 on PC, 220 on radius 360 walk across, USG blue lid, no vac, Sundstrom SR500 filter.


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## robert seke

*Looking for Joest in Canada?*



jeffqc said:


> [where i can buy joest paper disk for porter cable sander in canada



Please call me if you are still interested in the Joest. 248-765-6345


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## saskataper

120 foam back starting on the ceilings so it is more like a 150 when i get to the walls then a fine sponge and lightbulb on the walls


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## Quintana

wnybassman said:


> The first 10 years I used the PC we used 100 grit exclusively. Never seemed to have any problems with it and we did a ton of houses. For whatever reason I graduated to 120 grit and that's what I used until I quit using sandpaper. The last couple years we used the sanding pads we really struggled with them for some reason. It was polishing the compound more than sanding. The first job or two we wrote it off as "it must have been the conditions" but after two years and all sorts of conditions that wasn't the case. Still never figured out what the problem was, but the Capt. helped me out introducing us to the sanding screens for the PC. These made sanding fun again! lol We are using the 180 grit screens, but may bump up to 220.


I was told by a mud rep that the mud had to much vinyl in, and they would change the ratio from winter to summer. The vinyl (PVA) keeps the mud from dehydrating to fast in hot temps. That made sense because i always had problems with glossy mud in the summer....go figure


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## git-r-dun

i prefer joest or richard perforated sandpaper for finish sanding and Wet-Kut for pole sanding


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## siddle

I'm biased... But Festool sandpaper on a Festool sander is what I use.. Otherwise I'm using wet sanding paper for some fine finish.


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## moore

Today instead of driving 30 miles out of my way to Lowe's to buy my quick change hook and loop for my gator sanders . I had a pack of 3m sandblaster 220 [red] ,,and a can of 3m super 77 spray adhesive in the truck. Took an worn out piece of hook and loop ,and spray glued a piece of 3m sandblaster to It , slapped It on my gator sander , and went to sanding. It worked great.
It only took a shot or two of glue. ,, saved a few dollars on sandpaper ,and
GAS.


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## Arey85

Ive always used the porter cable discs 180 for the PC but yesterday tried the norton yellow ones with the hook&loop back. It sucked literally. Wouldnt come off the wall unless I turned it off while moving it or slid it off a bead. The suction was such that it popped the whole thing right off the machine like 10 times in an hour. The sanding however came out great no swirl marks or gouges like the PC pads. I saw some ones with little holes in them at all wall I might try those. Also I pole my corners with screen-kut 220 then block them


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