# angle box



## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

i am new to tools and am learnign the angle box.. why is it skipping to where i have to run over it 3 or 4 times? and ive oiled the rubber but it seems i have to push the life out of it, and my mud is soupy.. can anyone help me?


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

How wet you mixing your mud?


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

Check the tension on the angle head itself does it move freely? What kind of angle head are you using?


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Do you have almost perfect-perfect angles? If you have bad framing, and bad angles, you will experience problems.


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

well i mixed my mud soupy like banjo mud.. over 2 cups of water to the box.. they angles r prety straight.. i think its just beginners luck.. i tried running the 2nd coat today and it wasnt looking to good..


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

You gotta tell us what kinda angle head, and if its skipping I think your pushing too hard! Wet the mud a little more, and soak your angle head in water while your mixing your mud,keep a bucket of water close by to clean it and keep it wet. Without any more info from ya Thats all I can contribute. DSJOHN


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

ty ill try that.. but its a northstar box and angle head


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Get a Mudrunner


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

When you are mixing your mud, take a whole handful of mud out of the bucket, fill that void left with water and add more (I use about a pan full). Try that. My mix is alot soupier than banjo mud.


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

ty for all of ur help.. and i have a mudrunner.. but i cant get it to work.. it doesnt want to push the mud out when u turn the handle..ive used boxes for years and just started with angle tools.. so im a lil lost on them right now..


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

on the mudrunners, sometimes that handle is stiff, you want to twist the handle while pulling and twisting the opposite way on the white collar. Also how stiff is your mud? mudrunners like the mud on the loose side.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

tricounty dwall said:


> ty for all of ur help.. and i have a mudrunner.. but i cant get it to work.. it doesnt want to push the mud out when u turn the handle..ive used boxes for years and just started with angle tools.. so im a lil lost on them right now..


If your mudrunner won't pump it out, your mud is too thick, they tell you it will pump stiff mud but THEY LIE. mix your mud, fill the mudrunner, point it at the bucket and twist, if it don't fly out of the mudrunner,,, add water,, ALOT of water. My mudrunner mud will literally RUN out of a banjo, if I point the banjo at the ground. I agree with another poster, 2 cups of mud is NO WAY enough, I use at least a pan full of water,, IF the mud is not a thick bacth, if it is, I use more.

Don't believe the hype that thin mud will mess you up,,, it won't.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

I got to follow suit with the above..I think you got the mud too thick...also, load the head full before you start to pump them in...that helps too..the more you run over them to fill it in, the bigger the edge it will leave.....just a tip..what I do is run one direction....say left to right...all the way around ceilings...when I get to end, run them right to left...then pull your wall angles..you have to decide what is best for you...some people pull them up first then pull down(I do personally) then some others just pull down from ceiling to floor and pick the bottoms....if you pick the bottoms clean on glaze coat, you can pull them up and not have to pick when you box them out...

These are just tips I have learned over the years running it..you will develop your own flavor the more you use it..the angle box is a man's tool though for sure..outside of the bazooka, its the next tool to whoop ya at the end of the day


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

Bill that was well said, a rookie should be able to grasp all of what you just printed ,and ditto to Capt. Practice makes perfect just keep doing it. JOHN


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

how many coats do you guys do over tape? does one coat of mud that thin actually cover well enough?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> how many coats do you guys do over tape? does one coat of mud that thin actually cover well enough?


 
This question goes for me too? thin mud? how does it cover?
My 10years of pushing thick mud by hand with knifes is holding me back?


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## DSJOHN (Apr 5, 2010)

If you roll and glaze your corners, one coat after that,it takes practice gentlemen, just remember its different than running corners by hand,you need to address your 3 way when dry. DSJOHN


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

Like John said, it takes practice...you have to have the angles full on the glaze coat(tape)...then you are basically just covering the print of the tape on the box out

another trick i have developed over time is when you star the corners (where 3 angles come together in corner of room)..pull one direction on glaze and pull the other on pump out

example, im a lefty so when I glaze, I pull left to right ceiling, pull down right wall side up and down, then pull wall side right to left....on pump out, I pull ceiling side right to left, left side up and down, then wall side left to right...this will fill in the grooves from glaze star out and make for a nice clean 3 way corner


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> This question goes for me too? thin mud? how does it cover?
> My 10years of pushing thick mud by hand with knifes is holding me back?


I know that moving from hand taping to tools, the corners are the hardest to adjust to mentally. I glaze my corners behind the bazooka with a 31/2 on the mudrunner, that coats the first time. I like to speed sand them when dry and then run em with a 21/2. You will still see some "photgraphing" in other words you will still a bit of tape here and there, not much mind ya. Here is where it is hard for hand tapers to adjust. Photgraphing is named that for this reason, look at a photo of the mountains,, then close your eyes and feel it, can you feel the mountains? Same with the tape, it will sand out and paint fine. I paint about 1/2 of the house i finish these days.

If you just can't abide the photographing, you can run again with a 2" and cover. Not neccasary, but will make you feel better.

good luck, relax, and don't try to over think it :thumbup:


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Bill from Indy said:


> Like John said, it takes practice...you have to have the angles full on the glaze coat(tape)...then you are basically just covering the print of the tape on the box out
> 
> another trick i have developed over time is when you star the corners (where 3 angles come together in corner of room)..pull one direction on glaze and pull the other on pump out
> 
> example, im a lefty so when I glaze, I pull left to right ceiling, pull down right wall side up and down, then pull wall side right to left....on pump out, I pull ceiling side right to left, left side up and down, then wall side left to right...this will fill in the grooves from glaze star out and make for a nice clean 3 way corner


FUNNY...I learned that from a guy from indy 27 years ago, Barnett Drywall, they were in south florida. Only dif...I'm a righty!


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I don't know about what others or how others have learned but the angle box was the first thing we were broke into, maybe because it is the most grueling a lot harder than the boxes at least till you get the hang of it. And I tell you it don't help if you are a little on the short end makes matters worse especially if there are sprinkler heads down about 4" from the ceiling.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I know that moving from hand taping to tools, the corners are the hardest to adjust to mentally. I glaze my corners behind the bazooka with a 31/2 on the mudrunner, that coats the first time. I like to speed sand them when dry and then run em with a 21/2. You will still see some "photgraphing" in other words you will still a bit of tape here and there, not much mind ya. Here is where it is hard for hand tapers to adjust. Photgraphing is named that for this reason, look at a photo of the mountains,, then close your eyes and feel it, can you feel the mountains? Same with the tape, it will sand out and paint fine. I paint about 1/2 of the house i finish these days.
> 
> If you just can't abide the photographing, you can run again with a 2" and cover. Not neccasary, but will make you feel better.
> 
> good luck, relax, and don't try to over think it :thumbup:


 
Cheers Capt,
I got a how too dvd when i started out changing to the tools and the person in that is using a 3.5 head on handle after the bazooka then a 2 or 2.5" on the anglebox to finish, and im stuffed if i can get that to work for me, there just does not seem to be enough mud for the 3.5 head and i tear the tape out and the head scratches up the board paper so gave up on that idea, got a 3.5 flusher and that went much better but you have to push a lot more, i used a can am tube and a corner mud head to put mud in the corner then glazed it off with a 3.5 angle head on my last house but i coved it so didnt have to do the ceilings, it did work well but a bit slow, i got a mudrunner the other day to try so on my next house i was going to try and use a 2.5 after the bazooka then use a mudrunner and mud head to put the mud in and glaze it off with a 3.5, i will try the angle head straight on the mudrunner but at this stage i like the feel of the head on the handle, well untill i get tired of going over the corners twice to finish anyway?

Im a painter too but tend to go for the plaster, i get the option of painting as well on most houses i plaster but i have heaps of work so would rather move on to the next house, once i have been around it for the plaster it feels like your finished and someone else wants you at there place.

Interesting that you use a 3.5 on the mudrunner after the bazooka then finish off with a smaller head, most seem too use a smaller then a bigger head? you are obviously a man of experance so thank you for your advice which i will try out, Thanks.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> FUNNY...I learned that from a guy from indy 27 years ago, Barnett Drywall, they were in south florida. Only dif...I'm a righty!


wouldnt happen to be named Gary would He?


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

cazna said:


> Get a Mudrunner


So do you think your being helpful by telling someone to go drop $900 on something when they already have a tool to do the job right? Why not help the guy with his problem and then suggest the mudrunner once he jumps the first hurdle. Not trying to sound like a turd but it sounded condescending. As for your other posts and the original...
I think if your first run with the angle head is a good one, real soupy mud will be enough on the second pass. You also mentioned your paper tearing. I believe you just need to break your corner tools in more. That happens to me too.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

A+ Texture LLC said:


> So do you think your being helpful by telling someone to go drop $900 on something when they already have a tool to do the job right? Why not help the guy with his problem and then suggest the mudrunner once he jumps the first hurdle. Not trying to sound like a turd but it sounded condescending. As for your other posts and the original...
> I think if your first run with the angle head is a good one, real soupy mud will be enough on the second pass. You also mentioned your paper tearing. I believe you just need to break your corner tools in more. That happens to me too.


 
Dude?? whats with the attack?? I only stated get a mudrunner becouse i cant help the guy with his angle box problem, i have not had much luck with the angle box either, im not mr experienced with the tools yet but i was in a hurry when i read his post and just thought of quickly pointing out the mudrunner as an option if the box isnt working out, Im open to share my experiences to date and i am trying to learn what i can and appreciate anything anyone has to say. You read into it what you will???

In no way do i mean to be condescending, Apologies if i did.


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

Didn't mean to attack you. I just thought it would be better to try to figure out shortcomings with one product before moving to the next. I'm not johnny experience with the tools myself so when I have a problem I assume it's me not the tool. Best wishes...


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

Time to lock the forum up. 

I'd like to help you out dwally but its a trade secret and if I told you how I do my angles you might be as good as me. 

Just saying!

:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Cheers Capt,
> I got a how too dvd when i started out changing to the tools and the person in that is using a 3.5 head on handle after the bazooka then a 2 or 2.5" on the anglebox to finish, and im stuffed if i can get that to work for me, there just does not seem to be enough mud for the 3.5 head and i tear the tape out and the head scratches up the board paper so gave up on that idea, got a 3.5 flusher and that went much better but you have to push a lot more, i used a can am tube and a corner mud head to put mud in the corner then glazed it off with a 3.5 angle head on my last house but i coved it so didnt have to do the ceilings, it did work well but a bit slow, i got a mudrunner the other day to try so on my next house i was going to try and use a 2.5 after the bazooka then use a mudrunner and mud head to put the mud in and glaze it off with a 3.5, i will try the angle head straight on the mudrunner but at this stage i like the feel of the head on the handle, well untill i get tired of going over the corners twice to finish anyway?
> 
> Im a painter too but tend to go for the plaster, i get the option of painting as well on most houses i plaster but i have heaps of work so would rather move on to the next house, once i have been around it for the plaster it feels like your finished and someone else wants you at there place.
> ...


Your looking at it all wrong there laddy,,,,LOL

IF you have a mudrunner, use the 31/2 to glaze with. See the bazooka puts out only a certain amount of mud PERIOD, not enough to use a big head. BUT if you use the mudrunner, you ADD mud when your glazing. Just mix your mud thin, tape with the zooka and glaze with a 31/2, then after it dries, mudrun again with a smaller head. 

This is where you are headed if you use the mudrunner, so just go ahead and get into it right away:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Ok Capt
Your on! I will do it this way, But my only inexperianced concern is does using a bigger head first then a smaller head last leave a ridge :confused1:
Im guessing your reply will be,

(No it doesnt you fool and it sands out easy anyway and if it did do you really think i would be doing it this way!!)

I look forward to your reply but i get the feeling i just answered it myself?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Ok Capt
> Your on! I will do it this way, But my only inexperianced concern is does using a bigger head first then a smaller head last leave a ridge :confused1:
> Im guessing your reply will be,
> 
> ...


LOL,,, yeah, except for the "fool" part. Might have thought it, but wouldn't have said it.

Look at it like this. If you leave a miniscual ridge on the corner with the smaller head, no big deal, it is on the mud from the larger, which is nothing, really. It's only when you leave a ridge of mud on paper, that you have a problem sanding it off.

If your anxiuos about it, just try it in a walk-in-closet and see how it does. Your gonna love it man :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Ok, Hey thanks Capt, your a real asset to this site and your posts are really helpful and easy to follow, in fact i would even shout you a 6 pack if i could :thumbsup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

And Tricounty drywall, Im sorry if it seems i have hi jacked your thread, not my intention, i suck at the angle box and i hope you are having a better run at it than me and some of this helps you.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Ok, Hey thanks Capt, your a real asset to this site and your posts are really helpful and easy to follow, in fact i would even shout you a 6 pack if i could :thumbsup:


Gee thanks,,, Glad to help if I can. 

Appreciate the 6 pack, however, I have been making my own homebrew, lately hard lemonade with around 9% ABV. The last thing I need is mo alcohol,,,,hic, hic.In fact I have 18 gals to bottle today. I turn em over ever mth.:drink::drink:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

another one out of the bag


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

well im not having to good of a run with it either.. but u got to learn to crawl b4 u walk so im not giving up on it


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Gee thanks,,, Glad to help if I can.
> 
> Appreciate the 6 pack, however, I have been making my own homebrew, lately hard lemonade with around 9% ABV. The last thing I need is mo alcohol,,,,hic, hic.In fact I have 18 gals to bottle today. I turn em over ever mth.:drink::drink:


 
LOL, This is the real secret to drywall isnt it? :thumbsup:


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

Bill from Indy said:


> wouldnt happen to be named Gary would He?


Two Brothers, George and Tom, their father had the company Barnett Drywall. They are probably both 65 NOW.


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

FOR THOSE ABOUT said:


> Two Brothers, George and Tom, their father had the company Barnett Drywall. They are probably both 65 NOW.


hmm maybe it was george and not gary...I worked with a barnett about 18-19yrs ago...shortly after I first started drywall..i don't remember there being brothers so maybe not same guys...were they from indianapolis or somewhere else in indiana?

he was the first guy to show me how to do a sunburst....cool guy..kinda a hillbilly?


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## FOR THOSE ABOUT (Dec 19, 2008)

They were from Indianapolis. 25 years ago they were in Ft. Lauderdale. All those guys were hillbilly's Really good hand finishers. Didn't run the tools. He wrote the book "two coats to glass" on corner bead.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> LOL, This is the real secret to drywall isnt it? :thumbsup:


I don't know if it is really THE secrect, but it HAS made me a legend in my own mind !!!!!!!!


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

it is a secret to drywall.. and we cant let them all out.. but really and trully.. Its a art... And few are drywall artist like us:thumbup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

tricounty dwall said:


> it is a secret to drywall.. and we cant let them all out.. but really and trully.. Its a art... And few are drywall artist like us:thumbup:


Don't know if your being a [email protected] like me,,,, But your right !!!!

It amazes me, that folks wanting to git into it, or do their OWN house think that IF they just ask a few questions, they can do as good as someone that's been doiong it fulltime for 30 years. 

Go figure


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I find with the drywall less people want to try it and are very happy to pay me to do it for them, not like painting more people want to do that themselves or get many quotes and pick the cheapest, so painting is a little de valued and the drywall has a little more value for me, less quotes for the drywall, i live is a small town so once you get known for quaility work they just want you, But yes there is still a few that think in one sentance you can tell them how its done. 

Hey Capt, just wondering what breed of angle heads you have, im going to upgrade my finishpros soon and am thinking a northstar 2.5 which is actually a 2.63 and a drywallmaster bonehead with the speed wheels for a 3.5 to run on my mudrunner as you.


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

yea it amazes me the people that try it... i got a call from a homeowner and he asked me to fix his sheetrock.. i went to give him a price and he had taped with mesh.. corners to.. and bedded and skimmed with a 6. I about threw up when i walked in..


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> I find with the drywall less people want to try it and are very happy to pay me to do it for them, not like painting more people want to do that themselves or get many quotes and pick the cheapest, so painting is a little de valued and the drywall has a little more value for me, less quotes for the drywall, i live is a small town so once you get known for quaility work they just want you, But yes there is still a few that think in one sentance you can tell them how its done.
> 
> Hey Capt, just wondering what breed of angle heads you have, im going to upgrade my finishpros soon and am thinking a northstar 2.5 which is actually a 2.63 and a drywallmaster bonehead with the speed wheels for a 3.5 to run on my mudrunner as you.


I have a columbia 31/2, 21/2, 2". I have a tapetech 3" with wheels, and the 3" premier (blue line) that I started off with. 

Tapetech is a joke,,, like durastilts,, they have had the name so long, that they quit worrying about em 25 years ago. I have a tapetech mudrunner, but it took me over two years to figure out what was wrong with it and how to FIX it. Now it works like new money, but it is NOT what they sent me. The tapetech head SUCKS !!!!!!! IMO

The Columbia heads work great, and if you have a problem with one, they will talk to you on the phone and they will fix it for you. On the other hand, tapetech will not talk to you, nor can you email them. You will have to send it to a "approved" tech, who will send it to them, and then they will send it back to them and then they will send it back to you!!! Thats 4 weeks to git it fixed. Oh did I mention that the tapetech heads SUCK !!!!!! If you use a tapetech head out of the box, you will have to side-swipe EVERY single corner in the house,, they leave a ridge, that a blackbird can perch on !!!!!


To sum it up,,, I hate a manufactuer that will not talk to you, or fix THEIR,,, f-up's


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## Bill from Indy (Apr 26, 2010)

hey capt...isn't it amazing that they have been making heads for what, close to if not more than 50yrs and still can't get it right?

I personally dont like the columbia head i have, but have no beef with ones that do like them...I just got one that was pretty jacked up out of the box and had to do a lot of tweaking to get it to run right...for the $ they want for these tools, they should work better than mine did....thats all...like you said, I could have sent it back...paid freight both ways to all wall and they would have fixed it, but why is my question...I tweaked it and got it to where it runs decent, but bought a northstar head and like them better...may be that I am just used to concorde and the northstar is actually slightly better than there original design


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Bill from Indy said:


> hey capt...isn't it amazing that they have been making heads for what, close to if not more than 50yrs and still can't get it right?
> 
> I personally dont like the columbia head i have, but have no beef with ones that do like them...I just got one that was pretty jacked up out of the box and had to do a lot of tweaking to get it to run right...for the $ they want for these tools, they should work better than mine did....thats all...like you said, I could have sent it back...paid freight both ways to all wall and they would have fixed it, but why is my question...I tweaked it and got it to where it runs decent, but bought a northstar head and like them better...may be that I am just used to concorde and the northstar is actually slightly better than there original design


I hear ya BIll. I had a 31/2 Columbia head that was bad, factory design. I called em, and they paid for the frieght BOTH ways and fixed it free. Thats a company I can get behind, ya know??

On the other hand,,, Tape-tech doesn't know you !!!!!!!!!


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for that Capt, Funny how when a company gets big and been around a long time the servcie and interest falls apart, We can all think of a few of them, Going to give the boneheads from All Wall a go. (Which is proving to be a dam fine company to deal with i must say)
Been PMed by a rep of DWM and wow, offers for skype links and any question is answered overnight, Great, I think there King Taper looks like the ducks nuts too, (Ducks Nuts means bloody good) oh (And i dont know why either?)


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

cazna said:


> Thanks for that Capt, Funny how when a company gets big and been around a long time the servcie and interest falls apart, We can all think of a few of them, Going to give the boneheads from All Wall a go. (Which is proving to be a dam fine company to deal with i must say)
> Been PMed by a rep of DWM and wow, offers for skype links and any question is answered overnight, Great, I think there King Taper looks like the ducks nuts too, (Ducks Nuts means bloody good) oh (And i dont know why either?)


Never seen duck nuts,,, got any pics????

I have been dealing with All-Wall for about 4 years, they are the ducknuts, they have gone to bat for me twice with a manufactur that sent me a bad product. Hard to beat that kind of service. They keep a record of every thing you do with them, and THEY CARE about their customers,,,,, a real refreashing breeze these days


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

fr8train said:


> on the mudrunners, sometimes that handle is stiff, you want to twist the handle while pulling and twisting the opposite way on the white collar. Also how stiff is your mud? mudrunners like the mud on the loose side.


i tried the mudrunner again today. its coming out now. but as im pumping it in its shooting out the head and then out the pump nozzle of the mudrunner when i finish pumping. is the mud to loose? i only put a cup of water in it


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

tricounty dwall said:


> i tried the mudrunner again today. its coming out now. but as im pumping it in its shooting out the head and then out the pump nozzle of the mudrunner when i finish pumping. is the mud to loose? i only put a cup of water in it


If you only put a cup of water in it, that is your problem, add about another 1/2 gallon (US). You are gonna have to accept this concept,,, just take a bucket and thin it down that much and try it,,, heck, you spent a bunch on the tool, waste a bucket of mud and find out HOW thin is TOO thin. Its only 10 bucks or so.

The mudrunner is a push/pull device. If the mud is too stiff, it will reject it, and you'll end up squirting it across the room. And remember to spray the rubber gasket in the tube with WD40 before you start. AND yes I said WD40, they lied about that too, it works and it don't hurt a thing.


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## tricounty dwall (Apr 29, 2010)

ok ty capt. and u are right. it was squirting everywhere and i thought i had it to thin. so i sat it in a bucket till i got feedback. ima try tommorow.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

tricounty dwall said:


> ok ty capt. and u are right. it was squirting everywhere and i thought i had it to thin. so i sat it in a bucket till i got feedback. ima try tommorow.


Trust me on this (and I hate to say that, cause an honest man seldom asks you to trust him) SPRAY THE RUBBER GASKET IN THE TUBE with WD40 just prior to filling the tube !!!!!!!!!! I flip the bottom clips, lift the tube off and spray the gasket AND the tube with WD40, then put the tube back on, and go for it !!!


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