# MudRunner question



## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

For you folks who use a Mud Runner.....

PA recently bought one, and we used it in the last two houses we did. It did a nice job, but his complaint is that it was a LOT slower than the angle box. The place we are finishing up we used it downstairs, pretty open and easy, took the same amount of time as running the angle box upstairs where it it really cut up. 

What are we doing wrong? I used a runner at the Mod plant, but we used an applicator head to tape the top angles, and then an angle head to load the corners (we used a structural tape). 

When filled and then emptied into the bucket, seems the mud is not coming out as fast as it should, compared to previous experience. Also, we are getting a fair amount of blow by in the tube. 

I think maybe some WD-40 in the tube would help a little. Also, the mud is fairly thin, darn close to what we ran at the plant.

Any suggestions?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

They can be a bit slower than an angle box but Its also feeding more mud, Yes its important you get some lube in the tube to free up the seal or it will stick up and slow down, Also when the tubes off for cleaning, that rod that stucks up, That needs lubed as well, Stand the runner up on its end and plunge it up and down by hand a few times with lube on it. The mud needs to be thin, I dont thin as far as the capt does though, about zooka thins ok for me. It also depends on the size angle heads, I finish with a 4, so its slower than a 3 etc.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I think he was running a 3" head on it.

I said something to him the other day about lubing it up, I'll talk to him tomorrow about it.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

fr8train said:


> I think he was running a 3" head on it.
> 
> I said something to him the other day about lubing it up, I'll talk to him tomorrow about it.


They need lube, And thin mud, It will stall, Im waiting for capt to say drown it in WD, Make a bath of WD and lie in it with the runner and zooka and a beer and all shall be good. He shoots it up inside the white part above the handle as well. I dont like WD, It stinks, Im a drywaller/painter, not a greasy mechanic. Lanox is for me, made from sheepswool, Yeah i know.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

Just to be sure, the gasket on the plunger. The opening should be up, correct? Like this 'V', not like '^'.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Yep deff "v" up.


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## TapeTech (Aug 13, 2011)

I noticed the comment about "blow by" in this thread. If you are experiencing significant amounts of compound getting past the gasket/seals, the gasket could need to be changed or the mud could be too thin. 

However, please let me know if you are having significant issues with it. You can send a Private Message, if you prefer, and pictures are always helpful. The MudRunner is a great tool and we want to be sure it's performing as it should.

Good Finishing!

Mike


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I get no blow by in mine at all, It it were dry with no lube it might, But a little bit of lanox takes care of that.


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## fr8train (Jan 20, 2008)

I would hope that the gasket isn't worn, the runner is brand new!


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## suncoast drywaller (Sep 4, 2009)

For my mudrunner I lube with motor oil works well . I have tried different combinations of corner heads but for me I use the two inch wen tapeing then finish with the three inch . I have also modified mine as the Capt sugests in another thread with some plastic pipe and this has really helped . With all these tools I think it all boils down to practice and perserverance


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Not sure how you guys lube up the runner but here is what i do, See the pics of me pointing the sprayer, Thats where i put a little lanox, on the rods and o rings, See where my hand is, Well i put both hands either side and push this all the way down and let it go back up a few times, These parts need to slip well and rods need to be clean and lubed or they will ruin the o rings, Then to finsh, I squirt into the main tube, and re fit, Then i know its ready to go next time i want it, I usually dont re lube.

Capt, Dont you shoot some wd int to the white part on the handle as well.
Opps, I just seen from the TT Mudrunner clip you are supposed to lube the white part through the hole, I better start doing that.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

I am really glad that these tool companies are beginning to run some videos. I think that DWT has had some inpact on that(could be the beer tho).

My runner has never run as good as the one on the video, even tho I have replaced EVERY SINGLE piece on it. 

I love it, would never go back to a corner box, but I still can't get it to do like its supposed(advertised) to do.

I have come to believe that mudrunners are like women,,,

They look better and promise more than what your gonna REALLY get !!!:yes:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

I hear you Capt, it's too slow a tool for my likes. I was thinking of running large to small heads like others are doing. 

There are obvious flaws with the runner IMO. 

I don't like the filler being at a 90 degree off the tool. It makes it hard to firmly get a foot on the pump pedal. 
It should of been angled. I know stand it upside down against your shoulder. No.

And I think a lever like a box handle brake would give ease of use (since we're already used to that method) and more control for mud flow than the twist motion. 

I think the ball outlet should have been configured differently AND the overall length of the runner should be a bit shorter to fit in closets. We have MANY SMALL CLOSETS in new residential, and the runner doesn't fit in to do front legs. 

I'll stop there for now.

There you go TapeTech, thats my opinion.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I hear you Capt, it's too slow a tool for my likes. I was thinking of running large to small heads like others are doing.
> 
> There are obvious flaws with the runner IMO.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with most all your post, cept the filling part.

Lay the handle of the runner on the floor, hold the "head" in your right hand, push the "spout" on the pump(box filler,without the actuall ""box filler"" peice stuck in it" ), does that make sense???

I ain't got any answer to closets,,,LOL,,, I still do 1/2 of em by hand. I run the top angles with the runner, and the back corners with the runner. I run the "top" of the front corners with the runner(above the door) and the rest by hand, this works well ifin the closet is 2ft by 2ft or more. Them little bitty ones are strictly hand finish LOL


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I agree with most all your post, cept the filling part.
> 
> Lay the handle of the runner on the floor, hold the "head" in your right hand, push the "spout" on the pump(box filler).


But I pump with my right hand.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> But I pump with my right hand.


 Well then,,, FLIP over my instructions,,,LOL

your right tho,,, I do to,,, too much beer, ya know. However I think you got the drift of it there.

Case ya didn't, let me straighten that out.

Hold the runner in your LEFT hand, STICK it to the pump,,, commence to pumping with your RIGHT hand, till it gets full, or as MINE does,,, starts squirting mud back out the head. At that point,,, its full.

We clear now???:thumbup:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

My problem is not being able to put my right foot on the pump pedal when filling the runner when laying the handle on the ground. I filll all my other tools right foot on the pedal right hand pumps, cept the mudrunner. Because I can't fit my leg between the tool and the pump handle to foot the pedal. Get it??


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> My problem is not being able to put my right foot on the pump pedal when filling the runner when laying the handle on the ground. I filll all my other tools right foot on the pedal right hand pumps, cept the mudrunner. Because I can't fit my leg between the tool and the pump handle to foot the pedal. Get it??


Dern, I wish i wasn't so far INTO the RECIPE tonight. I'd go out into the garage(tool museum) and check that out.

I don't ever remember that being a prob,, really. What kinda pump ya using??? I have a COL hotmud and a premier(old skool). Neither one gives me that prob. I'm like 5'11" and 200 lbs,,, you aint so big that you can;t get betwit the runner and the pump,, are ya????

just saying!!!!

I know,,, I need to go to bed !!!!!!


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Old skool Wilco. 6' 210ish. Gettin between 'em ain't easy. It would be alot easier if the filler valve was angled.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Old skool Wilco. 6' 210ish. Gettin between 'em ain't easy. It would be alot easier if the filler valve was angled.


You keep saying,,,,,, "getting between em"

Your right foot should be on the pump, your left foot should be next to your right foot (God made em that way), your runner should be on the left side of your left leg.

You may be standing IN FRONT OF YOUR PUMP, like you do to fill a box. If you are,,,,QUIT THAT,,,, Sneak up to the side of the bucket, with your pump AHEAD of you.


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Capt, my point is... you woulden't have to change from your normal pumping stance if they angled the filler valve. The runner should comform to the rest of the Ames way of filling tools. Not the other way around. Don't get me wrong I can fill it, but it's not the "normal" way I fill tools.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Capt, my point is... you woulden't have to change from your normal pumping stance if they angled the filler valve. The runner should comform to the rest of the Ames way of filling tools. Not the other way around. Don't get me wrong I can fill it, but it's not the "normal" way I fill tools.


 I can't really understand what your saying.
The only other tool that fills that way is the corner box.
Why is it differant???? Thats what I'm asking

Ya got me confused


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I can't really understand what your saying.
> The only other tool that fills that way is the corner box.
> Why is it differant???? Thats what I'm asking
> 
> Ya got me confused


I'll take some pics tomorrow.

Watch the mudrunner video, the guy uses his left foot to hold the pump.http://www.tapetech.com/learning-center/videos/using-the-mudrunner


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Does the pump have to be on the ground?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I'll take some pics tomorrow.
> 
> Watch the mudrunner video, the guy uses his left foot to hold the pump.http://www.tapetech.com/learning-center/videos/using-the-mudrunner


Yeah, you can do that way,, I don't, or know anybody that does. He's with TT,,, geezes,,, it ain't like he does it for a living!!!!! 

I hold the runner in my left hand, put my right foot on the pump,stick the thing in the pump, and commence to pump it.

If I was to look up and straight ahead, the pump would be in front of me, the runner on the left and the pump handle on my right

Man, your making this thing WAY to complicated


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

chris said:


> Does the pump have to be on the ground?


 No, you can put it on a scoffald if your using the runner on your stilts


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

we always have pump on" lil perry " but we are also banjo fellas. The mudrunner looks like it has a place in drywall. You say you replaced angleboxn with runner?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

chris said:


> we always have pump on" lil perry " but we are also banjo fellas. The mudrunner looks like it has a place in drywall. You say you replaced angleboxn with runner?


 yep, moores got the old cornerbox now. I kept it around just in case,,,, and 7 years later,,, sold it to moore.

As a banjo guy,, I still have three banjo's in the garge,,, don't use em less its a small job, cause i got 2 zooka's,,,,,,,but i sold the cornerbox.

That should answer your question


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I think the ball outlet should have been configured differently AND the overall length of the runner should be a bit shorter to fit in closets. We have MANY SMALL CLOSETS in new residential, and the runner doesn't fit in to do front legs.


Darn, that MR is rather long, isn't it:blink:

I'm assuming you have never ran a compound tube before neither, but maybe this may help you for those closets.

The crook or bend on the end of the tube is more or less meant for closets. I use to draw a line on the compound tube so newbies would know which way the head was pointing. (hold tube up right, have bend facing you , draw line on it with pencil or what ever).

So here we go...... starting on right front leg, start from middle (4 ft mark) and go up wards on the angle once you have tube and angle head in proper position. Now heres the trick, flip the tube and do the bottom left leg from 4 foot down. your tube will ALREADY be in the proper position to do it (no thinking). Then from 4 ft left leg, find position again, and go up, then flip/spin tube around and do bottom right leg of Angle.

Confusing, yes :blink:, but your only having to find the proper position twice instead of 4 times, and yes you will have a minor touch up at the 4 ft mark, but hey, it's a closet:whistling2:

But still, I could see a 2 x 4 foot closet rather hard to do the backside with the mud runner, but not the cp tube b/c as it empties the handle becomes shorter.

But I have never ran the MR, and don't think I will be either, never cared for direct flushing from a tube, they load too much mud on IMO


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> But I have never ran the MR, and don't think I will be either, never cared for direct flushing from a tube, they load too much mud on IMO


As I have learnt recently the amount of mud loaded by the angle head is controled by the amount of "rock" that the head is set up with. The more rock the more mud. Have a look at caznas pics do they look like they have to much mud on them? I am not being a smart a, we all have mind sets that have taken decades to build. Sometimes we have to have another look at things from another angle (pun intended). Until I got on DWT I hand finished my angles, and after 30 years they were as good as any angle I have seen. so I have had a steep learning curve and this old dog has learnt new tricks. And will not go back.


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

MR and a CP with a flusher or angle head on it = Chalk and cheese.

And its actually surprising how much of a cupboard you can do with it, Hard to zooka them too isnt it, But you figured that out, Becouse you wanted too. You just dont want to with a runner, So you wont.

I read once whatever your mind tells you, Thats what will be, Im very careful of my mind judges with out trying first, Its amazing what you can do, Things you thought wouldnt, Actually do, Maybe not the first time, But it gets there if you want it too.

Dam, I think i just confused myself  I hope im not turning into the general, Speaking of which, Havent heard much from him lately.


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## TapeTech (Aug 13, 2011)

*Thank You for the Thread and the Input*

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread so far. It's a great conversation. 
As the "new guy" to TapeTech, I think the MudRunner is an amazing tool. Any tool that can reduce some of the physical effort and bodily abuse already associated with finishing drywall *has to be* good and must have a place within the industry!

Interesting to see the same comments about tool length here as are mentioned regarding Tapers. Those closets seem to pose a problem everytime so it really comes down to designing a tool based on where the majority of the work is accomplished. There are far more joints and corners outside of the closets than there are inside them and the tool length is certainly beneficial for that. But we take the feedback seriously and it would be worth looking into a way to shorten the MudRunner and then provide extensions. By the way, there is an extension for the MudRunner currently (98TT) for those of you working with higher ceilings.

But the fact that the MudRunner holds 50% more mud than a standard 8" Corner Applicator and 70% more than the 7" is a big boost in productivity. Couple that with the effortless operation to start and stop the flow of mud and the tool seems like a winner.

We reduced the price of the tool by about $200 a couple of months ago to bring it in line with where it fits within the overall category. It's still a big step up in cost over the standard corner applicator but the benefits pay for the difference quickly.

Please keep the feedback coming! It's really appeciated and keeps us looking for improvements in new directions.

Good Finishing!

Mike


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

cazna said:


> MR and a CP with a flusher or angle head on it = Chalk and cheese.
> 
> And its actually surprising how much of a cupboard you can do with it, Hard to zooka them too isnt it, But you figured that out, Becouse you wanted too. You just dont want to with a runner, So you wont.


IMO not too hard to run with the taper in closets, impossible to with Mudrunner. The MR is incapable of making the head fit squarely into the front leg corner in SMALL closets ( lets say approx.24"X 24" and smaller). I can angle box ALL of a small cupboard. I'm open to suggestions, I didn't spend the money on a MR to be closed minded and give up.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Backs of cupboards are easy. Get your hangers to fold stand ups.:thumbup:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> IMO not too hard to run with the taper in closets, impossible to with Mudrunner. The MR is incapable of making the head fit squarely into the front leg corner in SMALL closets ( lets say approx.24"X 24" and smaller). I can angle box ALL of a small cupboard. I'm open to suggestions, I didn't spend the money on a MR to be closed minded and give up.


 
I can usually get most of em, just calm down, take it slow, Just do by hand what you cant or get a small CP and put your angleheads on that. :thumbsup:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

TapeTech said:


> Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread so far. It's a great conversation.
> As the "new guy" to TapeTech, I think the MudRunner is an amazing tool. Any tool that can reduce some of the physical effort and bodily abuse already associated with finishing drywall *has to be* good and must have a place within the industry!
> 
> Interesting to see the same comments about tool length here as are mentioned regarding Tapers. Those closets seem to pose a problem everytime so it really comes down to designing a tool based on where the majority of the work is accomplished. There are far more joints and corners outside of the closets than there are inside them and the tool length is certainly beneficial for that. But we take the feedback seriously and it would be worth looking into a way to shorten the MudRunner and then provide extensions. By the way, there is an extension for the MudRunner currently (98TT) for those of you working with higher ceilings.
> ...


Hi Mike,
How much experience do you have with the angle box and MudRunner?


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

gazman said:


> As I have learnt recently the amount of mud loaded by the angle head is controled by the amount of "rock" that the head is set up with. The more rock the more mud. Have a look at caznas pics do they look like they have to much mud on them? I am not being a smart a, we all have mind sets that have taken decades to build. Sometimes we have to have another look at things from another angle (pun intended). Until I got on DWT I hand finished my angles, and after 30 years they were as good as any angle I have seen. so I have had a steep learning curve and this old dog has learnt new tricks. And will not go back.


I think your implying I'm a dinosaur:whistling2:

There are tools that interest me to advance my speed, but the MR is not one of them. 2bjr is different, he wants one (after he seen the vid of it in action). But when you ask him why, he says "I don't know, I just want one, and I want to see how long it will take me to break it " The boy don't think:furious:

I have ran many systems to do angles, and many different angle heads. I have found and I'm sure most other tapers will say it's the one system they have changed the most. (angles)

Tools that would interest me is the cfs systems, but not a complete set, I don't see the need for the bazooka to be cfs for example, I would half to hire more 2bjr's to keep up to it:furious:...... But to flush angles, 10" box and install bead I feel that would increase my production.

The power sander I will admit I'm being a bit of a dinosaur on, but I would say it's more about being cheap. I'd rather rent it a few times, and see how I feel about it, than blowing a lot of money on something I would be pissed on. So the next time I'm by a home depot, Ill be trying one, and trust me, ill comment on it:yes:

But here's a pic of my angles, the 1st pic is the 2.5 drywall master head, I skim coated the right side, to show thats all the angles need after being applied by the bazooka, rolled REALLY GOOD, and wiped by the 2.5 on a pole. ( I want a 3" for 54" board but different story) Then I use a CP tube with applicator head, and a 3.5 tin head I modify so the mud applies super tight. All we sand is the edge with a idiot stick, keeping away from the point of the angle as much as possible. Then I drag a norton angle sponge sander on a pole with a nail holding it on place, to cut a sharper point in the angle. (for cry baby painters)

So no MR for 2buck, cfs system, see how this recession goes. It's well searching for the cfs systems that made me find DWT, betting some are wishing now I never did that google search right now


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I don't like the filler being at a 90 degree off the tool. It makes it hard to firmly get a foot on the pump pedal.
> 
> Gday PA
> This is how I fill the runner. Works for me.


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

gazman said:


> P.A. ROCKER said:
> 
> 
> > I don't like the filler being at a 90 degree off the tool. It makes it hard to firmly get a foot on the pump pedal.
> ...


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

I tend to fill it like gaz, But with the handle tucked under my arm.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Gaz ..what are those bench legs all about?? Never seen that sort of thing before... looks easy to store and transport ..


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## wnybassman (May 9, 2008)

gazman said:


> Gday PA
> This is how I fill the runner. Works for me.



I think I see some drywall art on a scrap piece of board in the background. :whistling2:


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## P.A. ROCKER (Jul 15, 2011)

gazman said:


> P.A. ROCKER said:
> 
> 
> > I don't like the filler being at a 90 degree off the tool. It makes it hard to firmly get a foot on the pump pedal.
> ...


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

wnybassman said:


> I think I see some drywall art on a scrap piece of board in the background. :whistling2:


Your all over it eh. :thumbsup:
Splater boards keep the floors cleaner. My boys are slobs.
The other pieces are to. (a) Protect the cornice while we are taping. (b) Cut up to use as my bench when cutting the cornice.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

moore said:


> Gaz ..what are those bench legs all about?? Never seen that sort of thing before... looks easy to store and transport ..


They are home made ones more. If you have fancy aluminium ones and leave them on site they disapear. Those ones live on the job site and never a prob.:yes:


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

P.A. ROCKER said:


> gazman said:
> 
> 
> > Thats how I'm doing it too. My pump hand brushes against my right leg while pumping. Kinda tight IMO.
> ...


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

gazman said:


> P.A. ROCKER said:
> 
> 
> > I must have chicken legs:blink:
> ...


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

gazman said:


> P.A. ROCKER said:
> 
> 
> > I don't like the filler being at a 90 degree off the tool. It makes it hard to firmly get a foot on the pump pedal.
> ...


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

Kiwiman said:


> gazman said:
> 
> 
> > Chicken legs are hairy-er than yours .
> ...


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