# Virtical or horizontal?



## TooledUp (May 19, 2008)

Ok this one may be for the hanging drywall section but the end result affects the finisher so here goes...

There's a few minor differences in the way we finish drywall here in the UK and North America. Infact, there's probably variations on the differences between states and countries in North America too - One major difference that I've noticed is the way the drywall is hung.

Here in the UK, the drywall is hung on its end (see photo below). This means we don't have any butt joints on the walls on a standard 8" ceiling. The way I see it is, no butts on walls has to be a good thing. I can also see the other side of the coin - On its edge means less joints on the wall.

Anyone care to comment on the pros and cons?

The pic below isn't a good example of workmanship (from the taper or the hanger) but it's all I can could find on the net for an example:


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## brdn_drywall (Apr 25, 2008)

now that my buddy terry has tooled you up you may want to change your taping/coating practices verticle is alot more work taping coating and sanding what lengths of wallboard do you have access to in your area?


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## TooledUp (May 19, 2008)

Boards are 2.4m X 1.2m - 8ft x 4ft. 10ft ones can be had but they're not usually stocked and special order. I rarely see the 10ft ones. Almost all new build properties are 2.4m high ceilings in this area and even if they're higher, they mostly just butt join some board for the difference.

Say hello to Terry for me when you see him. Ask him how to slow these tools down whilst you're at it, they seem to be stuck in the fast lane lol


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

Vertical (which we call Standups) is nice but the studs rarely fall on center or are of such poor quality that the joint 'ridges' up and is impossible to hide. Our most common size sheet is 4'x12' but easily had are also 14' and 16' sheets which eliminate butt joints(and also separates the hangers from the weekenders). 9 ft ceilings are common now and you can get 54" sheets which eliminates the rip. The down side is for a crew of 2 these sizes tend to wear you out FAST. Anyone know where to get good replacement elbows?


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## jackleg (Jan 22, 2008)

the best part of stand-up is the fact that its easier for one man to hang.....


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

after having a revolving door for helpers over 16 years I have to agree to that !


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Stand-ups are the best- We frame it at 16" or 24" on the center, and make sure. IF the studs don't fall in place, add another stud while hanging. The joints are factory to factory always, if theres any cuts, there in the angles. We have no butts, quicker to take, really quicker to run the box down, and its much faster. However, stand-ups are only in commercial jobs out here, in Florida. Residental jobs are horizontal.


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## redtigerwood (Oct 13, 2008)

what is the best way to finish a basement? vapor barrier then nail 2x4s flat to wall with styrofoam in between or 2x4 metal studs with insulation batts in between?


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

evolve991 said:


> Vertical (which we call Standups) is nice but the studs rarely fall on center or are of such poor quality that the joint 'ridges' up and is impossible to hide. Our most common size sheet is 4'x12' but easily had are also 14' and 16' sheets which eliminate butt joints(and also separates the hangers from the weekenders). 9 ft ceilings are common now and you can get 54" sheets which eliminates the rip. The down side is for a crew of 2 these sizes tend to wear you out FAST. Anyone know where to get good replacement elbows?


yea, i love the 54" board.......but seriously man, my hangers hate it hahaha.

its funny, because i got a commercial 9' job right now that requires 5/8"

these two hangers arent that happy right now.....at least its just walls though, and t-bar clngs.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

Always horizontal here. Butt joints arn't a problem to finish, there is less joints than with stand up's, and with horizontal the board covers over 9 studs for a 12' and vertically it only covers over three which two of are only on 3/4" of the stud. So the horizontal ties more of the wall studs together making it a better constructed wall.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

<< True what drywallnflorida said, but thats for residential only. All Commerical is stand-ups. I even have a problem once with an inspector who told me why did we hang a fire wall horizontal? A small detail from the architect on the plans said it was to be done vertically. What a bummer, but we had the architect revise the plans.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

joepro0000 said:


> << True what drywallnflorida said, but thats for residential only. All Commerical is stand-ups. I even have a problem once with an inspector who told me why did we hang a fire wall horizontal? A small detail from the architect on the plans said it was to be done vertically. What a bummer, but we had the architect revise the plans.


even the commerical work gets hung horizontal unless of course the architect specified it otherwise, but we have never had them do that.
Normally the architects don't state which direction to hang the drywall.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Yea thats true, most plans don't specify. For the drywall hanger, its easier horizontal, but for the finisher its better vertically because theres no butt joints, taping and boxing is much faster going down than side-ways. I basically use the vertical option for the simple fact I eliminate finishing butt-joints, less finishing, less time spent, and less material (mud) used = more profits.


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## drywallnflorida (Sep 19, 2008)

butts are never a problem to finish for us and I feel its easier to do one flat horizantally and a few buts than to box six flats up and down


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

drywallnflorida said:


> even the commerical work gets hung horizontal unless of course the architect specified it otherwise, but we have never had them do that.
> Normally the architects don't state which direction to hang the drywall.


yea....

honestly, i dont know ANYONE who starts out hanging vertically. i know it may depend on region.......but my area at least, and most others, if you do residential or commercial vertically, the owner/builder is gonna give you some weird looks.

as far as vertically, yes architects call that. whenever we hang vertically, is only for sheetrock SHEAR WALLS in specified areas/walls.

shear walls depends what city you live in, but most of the time ive got to check plans for shear walls, or i fail my inspection.

shear walls can either be done with OSB plywood (not my worry then), or sheetrock (my worry), which the plan / architect will always specify.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

You have twenty five percent more joint to finish when you stand the rock up.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Tim0282 said:


> You have twenty five percent more joint to finish when you stand the rock up.


Where did you get that number from, working with 4 ft tall walls? Standing the board up eliminates finishing the 4 ft butt joints, count them and do the math. Standing them up you have the same joints running from horizontal to vertical, no?

If you have 300 SQ FT of space, say 30 x 10, you will have 8 standups at 10 ft tall = 80 LN FT (not counting inside angles)

If you have it laying down, you will have 20 Ln ft in butts( 12ft rock divided by 30 ln ft =2.5 x 2 rows = 5 (5 x 4 ft butt = 20 Ln FT of butts) and 60 ln ft in joints (2 rows) = 80 LN FT
And really it could be more if you don't put the ripper in the middle, and do it the proper way.

Really its the same except you don't have to float out any walls, because vertically your working with all recessed edge to recessed edge. Horizonally you will have 5 butt joint to float out, double 10, and bigger, more mud, more time. 

If your doing production, you would want a bazooka going up and a box going down then side-ways, its much faster at coating too. You spend less on labor and less mud, meaning less material. Here is all vertical in commerical, unless specified, and resisential is always horizontal.


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

I guarantee that you will have more seems if you stand them up over all on any house considering if you stand them up in closets and any wall over 4' long think about it ... but the important thing is horizontal will tend to straighten out a wall verses a seam every four ft. Commercial on the other hand is done this way on steel studs mainly for fire rating. I love taping 10 ft stand ups goes really fast sucks running the boxes on them though , I would rather finish by hand... they go really fast. If you ever get a chance to do two identical homes try both ways and keep track of your tape you use , that will solve the dilemma wouldn't you say???


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## silverstilts (Oct 15, 2008)

TooledUp said:


> Boards are 2.4m X 1.2m - 8ft x 4ft. 10ft ones can be had but they're not usually stocked and special order. I rarely see the 10ft ones. Almost all new build properties are 2.4m high ceilings in this area and even if they're higher, they mostly just butt join some board for the difference.
> 
> Say hello to Terry for me when you see him. Ask him how to slow these tools down whilst you're at it, they seem to be stuck in the fast lane lol


 Boy that must suck all them butt seams on the ceilings if you only have 8' board , How come no one stocks it around there ? Where do they get there wallboard from? The suppliers that is >><<


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Hey Silverstilts,

I got a question, why do you say it sucks to run the boxes on the stand-ups?

Have you tried the long extended - hell-bent box handle- With this its great. I'm 6-1", and don't struggle much, but I can see smaller guys struggle. I would recommend this and also thining your mud.


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## guijarrero (Oct 17, 2011)

Have you tryed this? works good?
What do u think about it? 

(here in my country you frame hung tape and finish.. (many brik & concrete less drywall))


















I find it usefull please post your opinion!


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

guijarrero said:


> have you tryed this? Works good?
> What do u think about it?
> 
> (here in my country you frame hung tape and finish.. (many brik & concrete less drywall))
> ...


i like!


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

So you create two humps and one dip. Fill the dip so it is flat with the two humps. Finished you have one wide hump.
Menards and probably other places sell the cardboard strips in a box of fifty.
They work good.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> So you create two humps and one dip. Fill the dip so it is flat with the two humps. Finished you have one wide hump.
> Menards and probably other places sell the cardboard strips in a box of fifty.
> They work good.


Actually, according to Trim-Tex, it makes the walls flat. This is the same inherent design in the backerboards. I will find out soon enough.


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## msd (Apr 10, 2011)

you have pretty much the same design as a rock splicer.


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

If you have a long enough straight edge, I bet we will find it is not flat. Although, I do believe it makes finishing the butt joint a bit easier. And if you put that same straight edge on a butt joint finished the "old fashioned" (with a box) it isn't flat either. But the appearance is flat, which is our goal. I am a little lazy in not using the cardboard. But I have and they work good. As 2buck says, 'that's my 2 bucks worth'  (not really worth 2 buck or 2 cents)


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## Capt-sheetrock (Dec 11, 2009)

Gee, seems like some old drunk southern guy mentioned that before:yes:


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## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

SlimPickins said:


> Actually, according to Trim-Tex, it makes the walls flat. This is the same inherent design in the backerboards. I will find out soon enough.


Riiiight....


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## guijarrero (Oct 17, 2011)

msd said:


> you have pretty much the same design as a rock splicer.


exactly!!
but really fast and cheap with OSB (3/8 inch works) + 1/16 poster board strips + staple gun



Tim0282 said:


> If you have a long enough straight edge, I bet we will find it is not flat. Although, I do believe it makes finishing the butt joint a bit easier. And if you put that same straight edge on a butt joint finished the "old fashioned" (with a box) it isn't flat either. But the appearance is flat, which is our goal. I am a little lazy in not using the cardboard. But I have and they work good. As 2buck says, 'that's my 2 bucks worth'  (not really worth 2 buck or 2 cents)


IMO it depends on the paint shine and whether there will be grazing light or not. (not a matter of pride)


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## justadrywallguy (Sep 10, 2010)

guijarrero said:


> exactly!!
> but really fast and cheap with OSB (3/8 inch works) + 1/16 poster board strips + staple gun
> 
> 
> ...


I seen guys use osb then put vinyl J channel and get the same effect


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Doggy can be good, Thats a combo of vertical and horozontal, Well from what i can remember anyway (Married)


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## guijarrero (Oct 17, 2011)

justadrywallguy said:


> I seen guys use osb then put vinyl J channel and get the same effect











Oh yes.. I didn't understood when first read it..

insert 3/8 j channel at both sides osb it's same result.. maybe faster:thumbsup: and no need staple gun I guess


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> Riiiight....


Not that I can say from experience....but why not? This is of course assuming that the framing is good anyway. From a "mechanical" perspective, there's no reason it shouldn't work. 

Unfortunately, every job I've had in the past few months has been either spray foam or blown in cellulose.......nowhere to use the damn things.


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## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

joepro0000 said:


> Where did you get that number from, working with 4 ft tall walls? Standing the board up eliminates finishing the 4 ft butt joints, count them and do the math. Standing them up you have the same joints running from horizontal to vertical, no?
> 
> If you have 300 SQ FT of space, say 30 x 10, you will have 8 standups at 10 ft tall = 80 LN FT (not counting inside angles)
> 
> ...



8 standups = 7 joins @ 10 feet equals 70 linear feet
Laying down you'd have 2x30foot flats plus one 10 foot butt =70 also 

if it was a 30 x 9 foot area though you can buy wider sheets so there would only be one horizontal flat @ 30foot plus 9 foot butt = 39 lm VS 7x9= 63 linear feet for vertical


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