# Extendable sander



## Kiwiman

Anyone else had any experience with these cheap chinese extendable sanders? I already use the standard Portercable but are thinking about getting one of these as well because of the shorter length.
I think it has been discussed before but the search doesn't work.


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## fr8train

ask PA in a few days....


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## keke

why not this :whistling2:


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## thefinisher

keke said:


> why not this :whistling2:


Would have to take out a big loan for what is pictured there .


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## gazman

keke said:


> why not this :whistling2:


I can give you 2745 reasons. Every one is an Aussie dollar.:yes:


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## Square Foot

The Chinese Crap, is just that.

I tried the Chinese clone of the one that KeKe mentioned ( believe it was called FESTER STOOL ) anyway.....it only cost me a couple of hundred to confirm what I pretty much already knew...it's junk!!! you're better off staying away.


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## Kiwiman

I know it will be crap.... it's a third of the price here, I'm wondering if it will have a third of the lifespan or simply break just taking it out of the box


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## cazna

gazman said:


> I can give you 2745 reasons. Every one is an Aussie dollar.:yes:


That festool set was 5000 kiwi reasons not to go there last i looked, Which was a few years back, It may be cheap at 4500 reasons now???  The price is a joke.


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## fr8train

PAs other power sander is a porter cable Chinese knock off. Had it for over a year. The fan blew apart a few houses ago, still running though. Cost $100 or so.


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## 2buckcanuck

fr8train said:


> PAs other power sander is a porter cable Chinese knock off. Had it for over a year. The fan blew apart a few houses ago, still running though. Cost $100 or so.


No !!!!! say it aint so, fairly sure we both have the same sander.

I finally figured out how to sand out the flats with it, I don't want it to break down now:blink:

You should buy a festool fr8train, the old boy might keep you around that much longer. Skip the vacuum, buy a shop vac instead. At least you can sand ceilings with the festool.

I might try a vacuum on current house, dust particles are just too fine, even with one of those expensive mask. Might exhaust the the dust out a window with a hose, screw buying vacuum bags


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## Kiwiman

2buckcanuck said:


> No !!!!! say it aint so, fairly sure we both have the same sander.
> 
> I finally figured out how to sand out the flats with it, I don't want it to break down now:blink:
> 
> You should buy a festool fr8train, the old boy might keep you around that much longer. Skip the vacuum, buy a shop vac instead. At least you can sand ceilings with the festool.
> 
> I might try a vacuum on current house, dust particles are just too fine, even with one of those expensive mask. Might exhaust the the dust out a window with a hose, screw buying vacuum bags


I use a Starmix vacuum and have never used a bag in it yet, they have a large waffle type filter (like a car aircleaner) and a sort of vinyl bag filter that goes over that, the bag doesn't catch dust rather it helps stop dust getting to the waffle filter, the filters are all washable. It has auto power on/off as well, so when you turn your sander on it turns the vacuum on.


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> I use a Starmix vacuum and have never used a bag in it yet, they have a large waffle type filter (like a car aircleaner) and a sort of vinyl bag filter that goes over that, the bag doesn't catch dust rather it helps stop dust getting to the waffle filter, the filters are all washable. It has auto power on/off as well, so when you turn your sander on it turns the vacuum on.


I'm just going to stick hose in the suck side, and another hose on the blow out side, stick it out the window:yes:

Pay those brick layers back, who run their chop saw all the time:thumbup:


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## fr8train

Just getting it down now? PA has been using it hard for a while now. It may or may not be repairable. Can't find parts for it, but look on the bright side. Now that you can run it properly, if it breaks you can get a porter cable.


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## gazman

Kiwiman said:


> I use a Starmix vacuum and have never used a bag in it yet, they have a large waffle type filter (like a car aircleaner) and a sort of vinyl bag filter that goes over that, the bag doesn't catch dust rather it helps stop dust getting to the waffle filter, the filters are all washable. It has auto power on/off as well, so when you turn your sander on it turns the vacuum on.



That is the same vac I have. It has been going strong since 2005, it also gets hooked up to the rebate mate. Not one problem so far.


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## Kiwiman

gazman said:


> That is the same vac I have. It has been going strong since 2005, it also gets hooked up to the rebate mate. Not one problem so far.


Yep, they go forever, the only reason I had to replace my first one was because of my own stupidity....long story short, I got the circuit board in it wet and fried it. my first one had a plastic body and it gave some wicked static shocks, if it was next to your leg while sanding it would continuously discharge through the pants, the metal body ones are a lot better.


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## P.A. ROCKER

I just got one of those cheap Chinese craps, I haven't used it yet. I can already tell you the balance from the motor being mounted outward and the round handle (compared to the PC oval) makes it want to twist in your hand when running walls. Seems like it'll be fine on ceilings. I'll be test driving it tomorrow and post an opinion for you. 

My other cheap PC chinese knock-off junker has been good to me. The fan exploded 4-5 houses ago but still keeps running strong. I can't find a replacement part fan, so I think I fashion one out of wood:yes:. It sounds like I'm running a firehouse siren.


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## fr8train

P.A. ROCKER said:


> It sounds like I'm running a firehouse siren.


I will agree with that assessment!


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## killerjune

i keep my porter cable or i buy a 2000$ **** fest tool planex power dooper booster. my friend tell me that the planex is more heavy with the motor at the end of the sander.

planex or porte cable ?

thx 

québec taper


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## Toontowntaper

Why is there so much hate on the Chinese guys ?

Really if you think about it a lot of the electronics and most products are made in china... It's not that they always produce crap. But even so we don't need to be so racist and let's drop the " ***** **** " cause I for one don't really think its needed to get a point across. PA I respect you and don't need to be racist towards you or anyone on here


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## P.A. ROCKER

Sorry to come of as a racist, I think most people these days are over sensitized to so called racial slurs. I'm not offended with the over use of "cracker" "******" "white bread".
Sticks and stones.


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## Stopper

cazna said:


> That festool set was 5000 kiwi reasons not to go there last i looked, Which was a few years back, It may be cheap at 4500 reasons now???  The price is a joke.


I bought mine back in 2008-2009 and its was less than $4000, I notice I can order one from All-wall for about $3400 including freight and GST when it arrives...pretty good deal I recon.....I fell in love with the brochure just before I bought mine, it was awesome!!


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## Stopper

thefinisher said:


> Would have to take out a big loan for what is pictured there .


I had to replace the hose on mine because I used it to vacuum up the floor and wore the fitting down...$300 they quoted me to replace it!!!! I politely said "go get..."


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## gazman

Stopper said:


> I bought mine back in 2008-2009 and its was less than $4000, I notice I can order one from All-wall for about $3400 including freight and GST when it arrives...pretty good deal I recon.....I fell in love with the brochure just before I bought mine, it was awesome!!



Dont forget the one at Allwall will be 110v not 220v.


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## fr8train

So far it's got a thumbs up! Video when I get home. He's already modified it!


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## fr8train




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## saskataper

Stopper said:


> I had to replace the hose on mine because I used it to vacuum up the floor and wore the fitting down...$300 they quoted me to replace it!!!! I politely said "go get..."


You can just replace the fitting, should be able to order it right from festool if you call them.


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## cazna

gazman said:


> Dont forget the one at Allwall will be 110v not 220v.


 
Dont forget you cant order festool gear from all wall unless your in the states, Festool wont allow sales out of different countrys, You have to buy it in your country.


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## Kiwiman

gazman said:


> Dont forget the one at Allwall will be 110v not 220v.


Something I've been meaning to ask you Gaz because you seem to get a good finish with the P/C and I end up sanding out the swirly's with the flexedge sander. Does your sander use the whole surface of the disc? on mine the foam velcro pad has a slight concave shape to it because of the large washer holding it down in the center, so the sanding disc pad only contacts on the outer 2 inches of the disc.


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## fr8train

Kiwi, I think pa's old one did basically the same thing, but it sanded without any problems. Haven't done a final sand with the new one yet


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## fr8train

By swirly's, do you mean light circular scratches from the aggregate it gouges from the whee if the sander?


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## Kiwiman

fr8train said:


> By swirly's, do you mean light circular scratches from the aggregate it gouges from the whee if the sander?


By swirly's I don't mean grit scratching from grit coming loose, just the nature of the disc spinning and biting in I suppose, it's not from the disc "flopping" against the wall, no matter what grit or what brand or what speed it is still noticable, thats on midweight and lightweight mud which would probably make it worse being softer but it takes very little to sand it out, 2 swipes and it's gone.


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## fr8train

Then I would say either operator error, or there is something not right with your sander head and something is running out of true giving you a wobble and making the head dig in


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## moore

fr8train said:


> View attachment 8436


PA Is wearing a RUSH shirt! :thumbup:


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## Square Foot

fr8train said:


> Then I would say either operator error, or there is something not right with your sander head and something is running out of true giving you a wobble and making the head dig in


A while back Porta Cable was sending out drive cables that were too long, which put outward pressure on the disc plate. When you tilt the head along the wall, it's pushing one side of the pad into the wall with unnecessary force. 

This might be your problem.

Checked 3 cables at that time and all were different lengths.


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## P.A. ROCKER

moore said:


> PA Is wearing a RUSH shirt! :thumbup:


:no: I haven't had a rush shirt in years. My last one was permanent waves from the early 80's . 
It says, FISHING a practical alternative to work. :yes:

Anyway Kiwi, (isn't that a racial slur?) The highly engineered fine quality-crafted Chinese sander works just as you'd expect, but only time will tell how it wears. 
It runs much smoother than my PC clone and is quieter.
It's real easy to get around with, great in closets. 
I took the bristles off because they were to long and it took a lot of pressure to keep the disc on the work especially when reaching out with the handle extended. Maybe I'll trim them or leave them off.
The cord will need to be replaced because it's junk, I'll replace it with a good rubber cord when it fails
I am happy with sander at this point.


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## Kiwiman

fr8train said:


> Then I would say either operator error, or there is something not right with your sander head and something is running out of true giving you a wobble and making the head dig in


I've had 2 P/C's and they were both the same, been using them for more years than I can recollect, no wobble and at any speed or angle still won't get a perfect finish that doesn't need a pole sand, remember I said soft mud so that might have more to do with it, it's no huge biggee but it makes me wonder when other guy's can get better results.



Square Foot said:


> A while back Porta Cable was sending out drive cables that were too long, which put outward pressure on the disc plate. When you tilt the head along the wall, it's pushing one side of the pad into the wall with unnecessary force.
> 
> This might be your problem.
> 
> Checked 3 cables at that time and all were different lengths.


Thats interesting because there's no way in hell I can use it perpindicular to the board.


P.A. ROCKER said:


> :no: I haven't had a rush shirt in years. My last one was permanent waves from the early 80's .
> It says, FISHING a practical alternative to work. :yes:
> 
> Anyway Kiwi, (isn't that a racial slur?) The highly engineered fine quality-crafted Chinese sander works just as you'd expect, but only time will tell how it wears.
> It runs much smoother than my PC clone and is quieter.
> It's real easy to get around with, great in closets.
> I took the bristles off because they were to long and it took a lot of pressure to keep the disc on the work especially when reaching out with the handle extended. Maybe I'll trim them or leave them off.
> The cord will need to be replaced because it's junk, I'll replace it with a good rubber cord when it fails
> I am happy with sander at this point.


Racism to me is not allowing someone human rights because of their ethnicity etc, racial slurs are just name calling sticks & stones stuff that has been blown out of proportion and at times is used/abused to get sympathy (JMO). calling me a Kiwi could be seen as calling me a fat ugly flightless bird with a long beak that is native to New Zealand.......It's either that or sheep shagger.....it's all as funny as hell and I'm proud to be called Kiwi :thumbup:
As the saying goes.... the male Kiwi, eats, roots, and leaves :shifty:


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## Kiwiman

Toontowntaper said:


> Why is there so much hate on the Chinese guys ?
> 
> Really if you think about it a lot of the electronics and most products are made in china... It's not that they always produce crap. But even so we don't need to be so racist and let's drop the " ***** **** " cause I for one don't really think its needed to get a point across. PA I respect you and don't need to be racist towards you or anyone on here


China produce's whatever people are prepared to pay, if you want to pay top dollar then they can produce top products, the same goes for if you want to pay for [email protected] then you'll get [email protected], the majority of people want everything as cheap as possble and China is simply supplying that market. If I were you I wouldn't be offended by the "*****" thing, it's a saying that refers to the Chinese people but not in a racially derogatory way (from my point of view anyway).


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## Toontowntaper

No harm done just feel its not really needed to get a point across. Each their own way I guess. I myself just take it a little more personal because I am Chinese and its sad that society still is very racist. Which don't we as parents and role model for others try to teach our younger generation that its a bad thing


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## 2buckcanuck

Kiwiman said:


> By swirly's I don't mean grit scratching from grit coming loose, just the nature of the disc spinning and biting in I suppose, it's not from the disc "flopping" against the wall, no matter what grit or what brand or what speed it is still noticable, thats on midweight and lightweight mud which would probably make it worse being softer but it takes very little to sand it out, 2 swipes and it's gone.


Hey sheep shagging Kiwi









Yes I'm new to the power sander, and yes I was getting the swirl marks all the time, till the last 2 houses. I found I always had to go back and buff, and hit the edge a bit more. But for some reason, I went and sanded the edges of my flats first, then went over it with the power sander. I ended up with no swirls using 180 and 240 grit paper. The only reason I can come up with why is........ Since you no longer half to worry about sanding the edge down, you can fly over the flat faster, with the sander set at a lower speed.

maybe this will work for you, but I don't know if your work is as smooth as mine, since I'm merely sanding so the paint will stick to my ultra smooth work:whistling2:



P.A. ROCKER said:


> I haven't had a rush shirt in years. My last one was permanent waves from the early 80's .
> It says, FISHING a practical alternative to work. :yes:
> 
> Anyway Kiwi, (isn't that a racial slur?) The highly engineered fine quality-crafted Chinese sander works just as you'd expect, but only time will tell how it wears.
> It runs much smoother than my PC clone and is quieter.
> It's real easy to get around with, great in closets.
> I took the bristles off because they were to long and it took a lot of pressure to keep the disc on the work especially when reaching out with the handle extended. Maybe I'll trim them or leave them off.
> The cord will need to be replaced because it's junk, I'll replace it with a good rubber cord when it fails
> I am happy with sander at this point.


 keep me posted

I'm fairly sure we both have the same Chinese sander (the king sander). It's a bit too heavy and too long, and it's a b1tch to sand ceilings, b/c the cable/head don't bend so well. But !!!!,, I question the amount of money festool and even PC want for their sanders. I have begun to form the opinion that if the sander is shorter, lighter, and it has a variable speed it can do the job. I look at the power sander as a means to get certain aspects of sanding done FASTER!!!, not as a means of FINISH sanding.

Screws are a blast to do now, killer on the beads too. If I can get 60% of my flats sanded out with it, along with the top angles, I'm a happy camper. Less grunt work at sanding with the pole,,,, but it would be nice to get into tighter space with the sander, and be able to run it in a vertical position too. Not horizontal and out away from your body. Feel like a big human clock sometimes. Looks like that one is more movable.

One draw back I see with the power sander is, you get more messy with your work. Well I was working around other tapers last week, they would say "Are you going to leave something like that to sand",,,,,, and I would be like "Yep, I own a power sander"


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## Bazooka-Joe

Toontowntaper said:


> No harm done just feel its not really needed to get a point across. Each their own way I guess. I myself just take it a little more personal because I am Chinese and its sad that society still is very racist. Which don't we as parents and role model for others try to teach our younger generation that its a bad thing


who cares what people say or thnk, I had a Chinese female friend who lives in asia, and was one of the best ladies in my life ever even thought I never married her


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## Bazooka-Joe

2buckcanuck said:


> Hey sheep shagging Kiwi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I'm new to the power sander, and yes I was getting the swirl marks all the time, till the last 2 houses. I found I always had to go back and buff, and hit the edge a bit more. But for some reason, I went and sanded the edges of my flats first, then went over it with the power sander. I ended up with no swirls using 180 and 240 grit paper. The only reason I can come up with why is........ Since you no longer half to worry about sanding the edge down, you can fly over the flat faster, with the sander set at a lower speed.
> 
> maybe this will work for you, but I don't know if your work is as smooth as mine, since I'm merely sanding so the paint will stick to my ultra smooth work:whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> keep me posted
> 
> I'm fairly sure we both have the same Chinese sander (the king sander). It's a bit too heavy and too long, and it's a b1tch to sand ceilings, b/c the cable/head don't bend so well. But !!!!,, I question the amount of money festool and even PC want for their sanders. I have begun to form the opinion that if the sander is shorter, lighter, and it has a variable speed it can do the job. I look at the power sander as a means to get certain aspects of sanding done FASTER!!!, not as a means of FINISH sanding.
> 
> Screws are a blast to do now, killer on the beads too. If I can get 60% of my flats sanded out with it, along with the top angles, I'm a happy camper. Less grunt work at sanding with the pole,,,, but it would be nice to get into tighter space with the sander, and be able to run it in a vertical position too. Not horizontal and out away from your body. Feel like a big human clock sometimes. Looks like that one is more movable.
> 
> One draw back I see with the power sander is, you get more messy with your work. Well I was working around other tapers last week, they would say "Are you going to leave something like that to sand",,,,,, and I would be like "Yep, I own a power sander"


nice buck, i flash my work out and am happy camper too


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## 2buckcanuck

Toontowntaper said:


> No harm done just feel its not really needed to get a point across. Each their own way I guess. I myself just take it a little more personal because I am Chinese and its sad that society still is very racist. Which don't we as parents and role model for others try to teach our younger generation that its a bad thing


Racism is one thing, but theres also a point where people expect things to be too politically correct.

Reminds me of the Clint Eastwood movie "Grand Torino" , it got criticized for the way it potrayed construction workers. Well I thought it was factual

If I don't hear guys saying ethnic slurs and stuff like Pollock, Hunky, drunken Irishman, dam Yankie, stupid Canuck, cheap Dutchman and so on, Then I get scared ,,,, that means there's going to be a fight...........Besides, women compliment each other, and don't really mean it, well men insult each other, and don't really mean it.

Now who has some good Kiwi jokes:whistling2:


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## fr8train

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8csNGv0IM


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## gazman

Kiwiman said:


> Something I've been meaning to ask you Gaz because you seem to get a good finish with the P/C and I end up sanding out the swirly's with the flexedge sander. Does your sander use the whole surface of the disc? on mine the foam velcro pad has a slight concave shape to it because of the large washer holding it down in the center, so the sanding disc pad only contacts on the outer 2 inches of the disc.


I have always used Norton foam backers, with them the whole surface of the disc was being used. My new PC came with a joest backer, and it is softer and tends to pucker up and it rides on the edges more.
It seems to me that the denser foam works much better. The only fault with the norton is that the Velcro de_laminates after a while. When it starts to come away dust will build up under there and throw it out of balance. The fix is, remove the Velcro and glue it back down using trim tex spray glue.


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## Kiwiman

Do you mean this one Gaz? http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Abrasives-Sanding-Discs/Norton-Backup-Pad-PC7800.html
I'm not sure of the brand we get here but my backing pad looks a bit more like this one http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Abrasives-Sanding-Discs/Joest-Interface-Sponge.html


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## Stopper

saskataper said:


> You can just replace the fitting, should be able to order it right from festool if you call them.


Yer the fitting was $50NZD , but the Festool hose is very "soft" and kinks easily which strangles off the airflow which is a pain in the butt. my new hose is much stiffer...I did put the old fitting back on though:whistling2: might have to replace it beause it falls off every now'n again


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## gazman

Kiwiman said:


> Do you mean this one Gaz? http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Abrasives-Sanding-Discs/Norton-Backup-Pad-PC7800.html
> I'm not sure of the brand we get here but my backing pad looks a bit more like this one http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Drywall-Abrasives-Sanding-Discs/Joest-Interface-Sponge.html



The Norton that I use looks more like your second link. But is definitely denser than the joest that came with my new pc.


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## Kiwiman

gazman said:


> The Norton that I use looks more like your second link. But is definitely denser than the joest that came with my new pc.


Yep, I know what you mean by "pucker up", I keep a spare one sandwiched between 2 rolls of papertape to flatten it out.
It's good to know the whole surface should be making contact, I'll work on that (cheers).


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## P.A. ROCKER

Bazooka-Joe said:


> who cares what people say or thnk, I had a Chinese female friend who lives in asia, and was one of the best ladies in my life ever even thought I never married her


Did I read that chicken scratch right? Is your wife is Chinese Joe? Cool.


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## Newagestucco

we use the planex 
I know we wont be going back to using pole sanders
thats like using the zook and going back to hand taping
we sand everything with it , we like it so much we even rough sand with it
very little swirls spong with a light done


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## 2buckcanuck

fr8train said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8csNGv0IM


Bad boy PA, you were not wearing your mask at first:blink:

I like the looks of that one, shorter handle, more bend to the head, looked like it was easier to sand ceilings with it:yes:

So if you were to compare it to your old sander (king sander), how much better is it on a scale of one to ten????


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## moore

fr8train said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j8csNGv0IM


I was more impressed on how clean the floors were.:yes:
Very neat looking work guys!


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## killerjune

what happen with your but joint in the video ? it my world a but joint need a little more


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## P.A. ROCKER

killerjune said:


> what happen with your but joint in the video ? it my world a but joint need a little more


Some have butt boards. Just skim sanding between coats.


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## killerjune

vaccum up the floor ? i dont understands


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## fr8train

killerjune said:


> vaccum up the floor ? i dont understands


What part? We don't vacuum. We scrape and sweep, the rest to it is someone else's problem!


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## P.A. ROCKER

2buckcanuck said:


> Bad boy PA, you were not wearing your mask at first:blink:
> 
> I like the looks of that one, shorter handle, more bend to the head, looked like it was easier to sand ceilings with it:yes:
> 
> So if you were to compare it to your old sander (king sander), how much better is it on a scale of one to ten????


I'm not really sure yet. You've witnessed it's maiden voyage. I wasn't experienced when I got my other one. I'm more skilled now and running this one seemed easier, it's more nimble and more flexible and runs smoother. Alright, I'll give it a 6.5 at my current experience level.
I think I'll be happier with it in the long run, time will tell. 

My first impression when I took it out of the box wasn't good because it's balanced differently. I thought "If I don't like this thing, it's going back!" 
I won't be returning it. :no:


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## JustMe

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I'm not really sure yet. You've witnessed it's maiden voyage. I wasn't experienced when I got my other one. I'm more skilled now and running this one seemed easier, it's more nimble and more flexible and runs smoother. Alright, I'll give it a 6.5 at my current experience level.
> I think I'll be happier with it in the long run, time will tell.
> 
> My first impression when I took it out of the box wasn't good because it's balanced differently. I thought "If I don't like this thing, it's going back!"
> I won't be returning it. :no:


Looking at the image of that sander here, P.A. - http://www.amazon.com/ALEKO-Electric-Variable-Drywall-Sander/dp/B003VDX6V8 - it's looking like the drive cable's got the same outer housing as the King sanders do. Those outer housings definitely add to the stiffness of how the heads work, when compared to say a PC and its outer cable housing. The PC outer housing is much more flexible.

If you can take that outer housing into a place that makes up hose - like air hose, hydraulic hose, water hose - they could maybe use your outer housing's ends and crimp a more flexible hose on to them. Think you'd find a nice difference in how the head works.


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## sdrdrywall

A friend of mine has one ran real nice but only lasted about 8-9 months


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## P.A. ROCKER

Justme, I don't have a problem with it's flexibility.

SDR, how many sheets did he sand in that time?
I figured my PC clone has well over 20,000 on it between skim and finish sanding and it still running. Not bad for the $100 I spent.


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## JustMe

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Justme, I don't have a problem with it's flexibility.


With your experience and skill, I can imagine it isn't a problem for you, P.A.

What I'm talking about is having a tool that could be nice (or nicer) to run, instead of decent to run. When I compare the head flexibility of my PC to my backup King, I'd prefer the PC by a decent amount, especially for sanding out such as ceilings.


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## sdrdrywall

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Justme, I don't have a problem with it's flexibility.
> 
> SDR, how many sheets did he sand in that time?
> I figured my PC clone has well over 20,000 on it between skim and finish sanding and it still running. Not bad for the $100 I spent.


Average 400 a week 14-15000 give or take its not bad 12 dollars a month to not pole sand ill pay that any day. I have a festool copy brandon from waltools gave me 18 months and still running barely. I'm ordering a pc copy.there all well spent money to me


----------



## 2buckcanuck

sdrdrywall said:


> Average 400 a week 14-15000 give or take its not bad 12 dollars a month to not pole sand ill pay that any day. I have a festool copy brandon from waltools gave me 18 months and still running barely. I'm ordering a pc copy.there all well spent money to me


A festool copy:blink:

Do you have a link, or a picture of that sander. I would be interested in checking that copy out. Do you know how much it would cost in Canuck bucks


----------



## Square Foot

2buckcanuck said:


> A festool copy:blink:
> 
> Do you have a link, or a picture of that sander. I would be interested in checking that copy out. Do you know how much it would cost in Canuck bucks


If it's the same as the Festool copy that I bought, It's garbage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Electri...755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c9c2ab23


----------



## sdrdrywall

Square Foot said:


> If it's the same as the Festool copy that I bought, It's garbage.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Electri...755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c9c2ab23


That's it I wouldn't call it garbage changed the backing pad when I got it 2 years worked the crap out of it never a problem


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Dammit:furious: which one of you guys is right, SDR or Square foot.

One of you two has to send their sander to PA rocker to test now:whistling2:

How do you do a coin toss on the internet


----------



## keke

2buckcanuck said:


> Dammit:furious: which one of you guys is right, SDR or Square foot.
> 
> One of you two has to send their sander to PA rocker to test now:whistling2:
> 
> How do you do a coin toss on the internet


hey 2buck what about you buy 1 and give us review :thumbup:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

keke said:


> hey 2buck what about you buy 1 and give us review :thumbup:


Who, Nobuckscanuck?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Who, Nobuckscanuck?


I actually like that name:thumbup:, it sounds so true

Plus it sounds better than "Everybodygetstospend2bucksmoneyexceptfor2buckcanuckhimself":blink:


----------



## Square Foot

2buckcanuck said:


> Dammit:furious: which one of you guys is right, SDR or Square foot.
> 
> One of you two has to send their sander to PA rocker to test now:whistling2:
> 
> How do you do a coin toss on the internet



My sander has bit it and cannot be revived ( charging, clear, /\_________ ) 

When I received my sander, I had to take it apart due to the handle components not connecting properly. The internal locking mechanism was nothing more than a piece of slotted tube metal that was held in place by a half clamp. It was at the wrong angle and wrong depth. The on/off was glitchy and the sander head ( depending on the lean ) would turn from a sander to a frigging jack hammer.


Simple truth is, buying one of these is a crapshoot. You might luck out and get an acceptable one, or not. There is no legitimate R&D or QC with these copy tools as they are just >guess< reversed engineered and put together with the cheapest materials possible to maximize profit.

The one enticing thought, is that the cost of these, such as the one first mentioned in this thread, is cheaper than the PC replacement motor alone.....providing it stays working for an acceptable length of time.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Square Foot said:


> My sander has bit it and cannot be revived ( charging, clear, /\_________ )
> 
> When I received my sander, I had to take it apart due to the handle components not connecting properly. The internal locking mechanism was nothing more than a piece of slotted tube metal that was held in place by a half clamp. It was at the wrong angle and wrong depth. The on/off was glitchy and the sander head ( depending on the lean ) would turn from a sander to a frigging jack hammer.
> 
> 
> Simple truth is, buying one of these is a crapshoot. You might luck out and get an acceptable one, or not. There is no legitimate R&D or QC with these copy tools as they are just >guess< reversed engineered and put together with the cheapest materials possible to maximize profit.
> 
> The one enticing thought, is that the cost of these, such as the one first mentioned in this thread, is cheaper than the PC replacement motor alone.....providing it stays working for an acceptable length of time.










Sounds risky to buy????








So fr8train should buy it,,,,, PA rocker keeps saying fr8train is overpaid and under worked, and has tons of money:yes:


----------



## Square Foot

Toontowntaper said:


> Why is there so much hate on the Chinese guys ?
> 
> Really if you think about it a lot of the electronics and most products are made in china... It's not that they always produce crap. But even so we don't need to be so racist and let's drop the " ***** **** " cause I for one don't really think its needed to get a point across. PA I respect you and don't need to be racist towards you or anyone on here


I definitely don't hate the Chinese People. What I hate, is the opportunistic mentality of the select who feed on the unsuspecting/ignorant and repressed. Is china the only one? Absolutely not but.....are one, if not the biggest offenders and show no signs of slowing down. 

Safety is of no concern
Quality is of no concern until sales are affected.
Intellectual property & R&D is of no concern.

Only $$$ is of concern.

Make sure to read page 2

http://www.cracked.com/article_19742_the-5-most-insane-examples-chinese-counterfeiting.html


----------



## Mr.Brightstar

Square Foot said:


> I definitely don't hate the Chinese People. What I hate, is the opportunistic mentality of the select who feed on the unsuspecting/ignorant and repressed. Is china the only one? Absolutely not but.....are one, if not the biggest offenders and show no signs of slowing down.
> 
> Safety is of no concern
> Quality is of no concern until sales are affected.
> Intellectual property & R&D is of no concern.
> 
> Only $$$ is of concern.
> 
> Make sure to read page 2
> 
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19742_the-5-most-insane-examples-chinese-counterfeiting.html


It's the American way. If you can't send it to china to be manufactured, you hire Mexicans to build it.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

Square Foot said:


> I definitely don't hate the Chinese People. What I hate, is the opportunistic mentality of the select who feed on the unsuspecting/ignorant and repressed. Is china the only one? Absolutely not but.....are one, if not the biggest offenders and show no signs of slowing down.
> 
> Safety is of no concern
> Quality is of no concern until sales are affected.
> Intellectual property & R&D is of no concern.
> 
> Only $$$ is of concern.
> 
> Make sure to read page 2
> 
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19742_the-5-most-insane-examples-chinese-counterfeiting.html


Gee, I wonder whose rule book China is playing from:whistling2:

There once was a time when everything was hand made or hand crafted (hand taping would of been the norm). Then a certain country began to mass produce everything(the gun being the first thing they mass produced). They could produce or copy any product on the market, for a fraction of the cost compared to hand crafted goods. The whole world considered something with the "made in the USA" to be junk, but it was so much cheaper in price compared to the crafted stuff.

And if you look at the over all big picture, China ruled the world for over 5000 years. Western society has only ruled for maybe the last 500 years (America for the last 60 years). China's down fall was showing the white man gun powder, which they used against them. America was settled (not discovered) b/c Europe wanted Chinese goods........... maybe China is just looking to be at the top of the pecking order in the world again, where they think they rightfully belong

Here's a crash coarse on the history of the world (not just from a western perspective), it's called "crash coarse".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yocja_N5s1I

It's a good watch, and educational. At first it seems a bit dorky, b/c the guy speaks fast and is a nerd, but it's geared to entertain high school students. It's actually pretty cool:thumbsup:, and covers a lot of stuff.


----------



## fr8train

I've watched my fair share of stuff from crash course!


----------



## Mr.Brightstar

America feeds the world unless you're a Mongolian. 

Might makes right, Money is Power.


----------



## fr8train

PA modified his new sander again. He's in love now, I think!


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

I finish sanded 200 sheets and I found a design flaw that is a real issue.
Running 8' OPEN areas aren't an issue. But when you need to reach out in a congested area (like around a bunch of buckets), on scaffolding , 9 foot or higher work it's really hard to finesse the sander and use the side to side pivot because of it's location in relation to the up-down pivot. There on a different plane. You can't just twist your wrist to manipulate this motion, you have to kinda roll both your arms to get it done..... it's a [email protected] I had about a half dozen spots where I got the disc a little too much on end and it dug in. :furious: Can this new sander be learned? Probably, but I'm to impatient to start over. It makes me think too much about my body position in relation to the sander.
So I changed it with the one off my PC clone and I'm much happier.
2buck,,,now I'll give it like a 8-9. I actually enjoy sanding with it:blink:
Here's a pic of the different pivot point.


----------



## fr8train

Is the festool planex really worth the coin? Compared to a king sander or even a PC? If you shop around you can find a king sander for $100 U.S., a planex cost 10+ times that. Does the planex do the job 10 times better, or last 10 times longer?


----------



## moore

$2


----------



## Bazooka-Joe

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I finish sanded 200 sheets and I found a design flaw that is a real issue.
> Running 8' OPEN areas aren't an issue. But when you need to reach out in a congested area (like around a bunch of buckets), on scaffolding , 9 foot or higher work it's really hard to finesse the sander and use the side to side pivot because of it's location in relation to the up-down pivot. There on a different plane. You can't just twist your wrist to manipulate this motion, you have to kinda roll both your arms to get it done..... it's a [email protected] I had about a half dozen spots where I got the disc a little too much on end and it dug in. :furious: Can this new sander be learned? Probably, but I'm to impatient to start over. It makes me think too much about my body position in relation to the sander.
> So I changed it with the one off my PC clone and I'm much happier.
> 2buck,,,now I'll give it like a 8-9. I actually enjoy sanding with it:blink:
> Here's a pic of the different pivot point.


kool took a looksee at that pivot when first bought it and thought it would need improvement


----------



## JustMe

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I finish sanded 200 sheets and I found a design flaw that is a real issue.
> Running 8' OPEN areas aren't an issue. But when you need to reach out in a congested area (like around a bunch of buckets), on scaffolding , 9 foot or higher work it's really hard to finesse the sander and use the side to side pivot because of it's location in relation to the up-down pivot. There on a different plane. You can't just twist your wrist to manipulate this motion, you have to kinda roll both your arms to get it done..... it's a [email protected] I had about a half dozen spots where I got the disc a little too much on end and it dug in. :furious: Can this new sander be learned? Probably, but I'm to impatient to start over. It makes me think too much about my body position in relation to the sander.
> So I changed it with the one off my PC clone and I'm much happier.
> 2buck,,,now I'll give it like a 8-9. I actually enjoy sanding with it:blink:
> Here's a pic of the different pivot point.


This isn't gospel, but Might offer an explanation:

That joint you're pointing to looks like what's on the sanders sold by every PC knockoff I'm aware of. Wonder if your older model was something built before Porter Cable pulled out their patents and told others - I think King was mentioned in particular - that they had to quite selling the sanders they had. Read something about that 2-3 years ago - PC going after someone about certain things regarding their sander design. The PC comes straight off the end, instead of having a joint like that.


----------



## JustMe

Or maybe my last post isn't the case(?) Some pics showing ones with the knuckle design, and other ones without it: http://picclick.com/New-650-Watts-Commercial-Electric-Variable-Speed-Drywall-390622919520.html


----------



## 2buckcanuck

P.A. ROCKER said:


> I finish sanded 200 sheets and I found a design flaw that is a real issue.
> Running 8' OPEN areas aren't an issue. But when you need to reach out in a congested area (like around a bunch of buckets), on scaffolding , 9 foot or higher work it's really hard to finesse the sander and use the side to side pivot because of it's location in relation to the up-down pivot. There on a different plane. You can't just twist your wrist to manipulate this motion, you have to kinda roll both your arms to get it done..... it's a [email protected] I had about a half dozen spots where I got the disc a little too much on end and it dug in. :furious: Can this new sander be learned? Probably, but I'm to impatient to start over. It makes me think too much about my body position in relation to the sander.
> So I changed it with the one off my PC clone and I'm much happier.
> 2buck,,,now I'll give it like a 8-9. I actually enjoy sanding with it:blink:
> Here's a pic of the different pivot point.


So if I gather what you saying is......

Don't toss out the king sander, put the king sander head/control arm onto the new sander you just bought,,,,, right????

Or beg and plead with Gazman to sell me his king sander he just chopped down:whistling2:


----------



## fr8train

2buck, that is exactly what he did


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

It's a 5 minute job.


----------



## gazman

2buckcanuck said:


> Or beg and plead with Gazman to sell me his king sander he just chopped down:whistling2:


The one I cut down is a PC.


----------



## saskataper

Came across this last night

http://topcoatreview.com/2013/08/drywall-sanding/

Its pretty obvious that they are getting something out of festool and the video is just funny, I'm not quite sure what to say about the taping job.


----------



## Kiwiman

saskataper said:


> Came across this last night
> 
> http://topcoatreview.com/2013/08/drywall-sanding/
> 
> Its pretty obvious that they are getting something out of festool and the video is just funny, I'm not quite sure what to say about the taping job.


They should have got PT to do the video for starters :yes:


----------



## moore

saskataper said:


> Came across this last night
> 
> http://topcoatreview.com/2013/08/drywall-sanding/
> 
> Its pretty obvious that they are getting something out of festool and the video is just funny, I'm not quite sure what to say about the taping job.


Jesus H Christ!!!! That's the worst finish job I've seen In A while!


I may be wrong...But I do believe that's workaholic pictured at the 23 sec mark.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

moore said:


> Jesus H Christ!!!! That's the worst finish job I've seen In A while!
> 
> 
> I may be wrong...But I do believe that's workaholic pictured at the 23 sec mark.


Your right about worky at the 23 second mark, and your also right about their taping job:thumbup:

Someone should of introduced those lads to some 80 grit paper instead of a power sander:whistling2:


----------



## spacklinfool

I have had the p/c sander since it came out, other than a few awkward small areas it has worked great for me I use as fine of paper as I can and have minimal swirly marks if any as long as you keep it moving..I just got the new sander pads with no hole in middle and they worked great on my last job. I blow out the unit on occasion to keep it clean, and grease the moving parts every so often. After all these years no problems!!!


----------



## Kiwiman

Well I got one anyway, it arrived the day after sanding day  (half hour after I said it would arrive Gaz).
I gave it a quick spin on my garage test wall.
Bad points - hard to hold on it's side, nothing to comfortably hold on to up front, the vac hose to the head was too stiff so I replaced it and now it moves better than the PC, the power cord is shorter than the main vac hose to the vac (and even shorter when extended), main vac hose is cheap quality and kinkable. 
Good points - it's cheap! :thumbsup:
also - it's short like Gaz's machine, the backing pad is better quality than the PC ones and sits flat (2nd pic), the head swivels easier with a more flexible hose replacement.
Next thing to do is see how long the motor lasts, never trust a new motor that comes with a spare set of brushes I always say


----------



## Kiwiman

gazman said:


> I have always used Norton foam backers, with them the whole surface of the disc was being used. My new PC came with a joest backer, and it is softer and tends to pucker up and it rides on the edges more.
> It seems to me that the denser foam works much better. The only fault with the norton is that the Velcro de_laminates after a while. When it starts to come away dust will build up under there and throw it out of balance. The fix is, remove the Velcro and glue it back down using trim tex spray glue.


Here's what I added (pic) to my old pad that pulls in at the centre, it raised the sanding pad in the middle to make it flatter over all, it made a huge difference, I still get swirly's but no where near as bad, maybe the whole sanding head is too stiff.
(Admin - preview post still doesn't work)


----------



## gazman

Good one Kiwiman, you are a thinker :thumbsup:.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

Why does everybody compare all these sanders to a PC ???

Reckon its cause PC makes the best sander???

Fesstool is super expensive,,, it is also super inferior
Ask yourself this "just cause its 3 times more expensive, is it three times better?"

I have three PC's, I wouldn't trade the frayed, broken cord off the one I bought in 96 for a brand new fesstool

If you want to eliminate swirl marks, buy screens and put em over the disc on a PC, that little foam pad that you stick Velcro paper on, ain't gonna do it for ya,,,,,,

I could be wrong,,,,,, but I'm not:whistling2:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

Don't be so shy Capt, I don't know why you always have to pussy foot around a topic. Why don't you tell us what you really think?

Where do you get these screens you speak of?


----------



## 2buckcanuck

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Don't be so shy Capt, I don't know why you always have to pussy foot around a topic. Why don't you tell us what you really think?
> 
> Where do you get these screens you speak of?


The Captain maybe right

That guy from Johnson abrasives sent me some samples, I'm sorta liking the screen disc compared to the paper. Going to be giving them a good test tomorrow (paper vs screen), since I'm finish sanding.

Wish I could do a review on the Johnson Abrasives, but a certain Administrator seems to be too busy to fix the search function:furious:


----------



## cazna

Ive tryed some screens from jim at wallboardtools, Forget the name but they were good, real good, No swirls and a nice polish up........ish.


----------



## gazman

This is the stuff that WallBoard Tools has. It is top shelf.

http://www.mirka.com/en/Abrasives/Net_Sanding_Range/?productgroup=&product=ABRANET___540


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

P.A. ROCKER said:


> Don't be so shy Capt, I don't know why you always have to pussy foot around a topic. Why don't you tell us what you really think?
> 
> Where do you get these screens you speak of?


One of these days I will cut the dawg loose,,,,LOL


I use screens from "Johnson abrasive", I get em from all-wall.
I put em right over the top of a wore out sanding pad from pc. It gives you the support you need for the screen, but it is still "consistent", meaning it does not "give" on a lap(for instance) like a paper on a soft pad (Velcro) will.

The festool has a heavy moter and does not flex well at all,,,, if you have a corner bead, and a short wall,like 14" then another corner bead,,,,,, fesstool will gouge it out to where you have to re-skim it,,,PC won't,,, it will just sand it


----------



## saskataper

I don't know what else to say capt other than your wrong about the Festool. I just sanded out 8000' with over 1500 ft of TrimTex and there were very few sander marks, the few that were there were from user error. As far as weight goes I can sand with one hand when there are no extensions on which is how I run it for everything but ceilings 9' and higher, so if I have a trouble spot I hold a light in one hand and run the planex in the other. 
The PC is a great sander and I got really good results with mine but you can do more with less effort with the planex.


----------



## 2buckcanuck

2buckcanuck said:


> The Captain maybe right
> 
> That guy from Johnson abrasives sent me some samples, I'm sorta liking the screen disc compared to the paper. Going to be giving them a good test tomorrow (paper vs screen), since I'm finish sanding.
> 
> Wish I could do a review on the Johnson Abrasives, but a certain Administrator seems to be too busy to fix the search function:furious:


Okay, I'm liking the screen discs compared to the paper ones. Or should I cause a firestorm of controversy on DWT, and say I like the MESH sanding discs


----------



## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> One of these days I will cut the dawg loose,,,,LOL
> 
> 
> I use screens from "Johnson abrasive", I get em from all-wall.
> I put em right over the top of a wore out sanding pad from pc. It gives you the support you need for the screen, but it is still "consistent", meaning it does not "give" on a lap(for instance) like a paper on a soft pad (Velcro) will.
> 
> The festool has a heavy moter and does not flex well at all,,,, if you have a corner bead, and a short wall,like 14" then another corner bead,,,,,, fesstool will gouge it out to where you have to re-skim it,,,PC won't,,, it will just sand it


So the PC will flex to the ski slopes on your corner bead ? where as the festool won't? :whistling2:


----------



## gazman

moore said:


> So the PC will flex to the ski slopes on your corner bead ? where as the festool won't? :whistling2:



Nasty .


----------



## killerjune

the planex are more heavy than pc ?


----------



## saskataper

The Planex without extensions is 8 1/2 lbs same as the PC then each extension is 1 1/2 lbs.

The perceived weight of the Planex is a lot less though as it sucks onto the wall. I generally turn up the suck on ceilings then turn it down on walls. If you turn the suction to max the it is really aggressive and will gouge like the capt said. I adjust it on the fly, first hitting my screws at 6 (max suck) then drop it to about 4 for the ceiling joints then I drop it again to sand the walls.


----------



## thefinisher

2buckcanuck said:


> Okay, I'm liking the screen discs compared to the paper ones. Or should I cause a firestorm of controversy on DWT, and say I like the MESH sanding discs


We use screen discs over a standard PC pad as well.... works very well :thumbsup:. It is a lot cheaper, plus you can flip the disc over and run it on the opposite side when the first side loses its bite. I will caution that the discs tend to cut more than what it is rated for. I use a 150 grit disc but you have to make sure to sand your screws first to wear it out... I will also run it on smooth garage floor concrete to take the initial bite off if I need to. I would recommend starting with 220 to figure out what you can handle first. 

-On a side note you can jam a broom handle up the PC to reach 12-14 foot ceilings if you really need to.


----------



## moore

gazman said:


> Nasty .


LOL! I was just messin with the Capt..Half the time I'll end up leaving too much mud on the bead then half to sand the flash off:whistling2:


----------



## moore

http://www.tapingandjointing.com/forum/showthread.php/2021-Sanding-by-hand-to-soon-be-banned


Wonder how long it will be before they try It here?


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Why does everybody compare all these sanders to a PC ???
> 
> Reckon its cause PC makes the best sander???
> 
> Fesstool is super expensive,,, it is also super inferior
> Ask yourself this "just cause its 3 times more expensive, is it three times better?"


Maybe the PC is just more seen as the industry standard, Capt., and the one most are familiar with, so that's why it's usually compared to(?)

I followed behind a Festool sanded out job the other week, sponge sanding what was left to touch up. There was little left to do.

Question I ask myself when buying a tool (besides "What's it going to do to my body - beat it up, or not as much") is "What's going to be my return on investment, if I pay more? Is that extra ten or hundred or 5 hundred dollar investment going to make me enough money to justify the added expense?"
It's one reason why I run mostly Columbia auto tools right now, and not something like cheaper Goldblatt.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> Maybe the PC is just more seen as the industry standard, Capt., and the one most are familiar with, so that's why it's usually compared to(?)
> 
> I followed behind a Festool sanded out job the other week, sponge sanding what was left to touch up. There was little left to do.
> 
> Question I ask myself when buying a tool (besides "What's it going to do to my body - beat it up, or not as much") is "What's going to be my return on investment, if I pay more? Is that extra ten or hundred or 5 hundred dollar investment going to make me enough money to justify the added expense?"
> It's one reason why I run mostly Columbia auto tools right now, and not something like cheaper Goldblatt.


The pc is lighter than a fesstool, by that i mean, the motor on a pc is in the handle,,, not 4' up the handle.

The pc will flex where a fesstool won't,,,,, Can't say much mo about that, cept try it.

The fesstool uses them sorry weak little foam pads and Velcro paper,,, no power,,,,,, if you hit a bad spot,,, them will just jump over em, where the pc with a pad and/or a screen, it will cut through it

There is so much to say here,,,,, if you WANT to like the fesstool, what can i say,,,,, if you want to know what it is really all about,,,, get one of each and see which is cheaper, better, and lasts longer. I have a pc that i bought in 97 and it still runs,,,,,, never seen a fesstool go more than a cpl three years yet

ain't really rocket surgery ya know


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> So the PC will flex to the ski slopes on your corner bead ? where as the festool won't? :whistling2:


Yes, that's exactly what I am trying to say


----------



## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> The pc is lighter than a fesstool, by that i mean, the motor on a pc is in the handle,,, not 4' up the handle.
> 
> The pc will flex where a fesstool won't,,,,, Can't say much mo about that, cept try it.
> 
> The fesstool uses them sorry weak little foam pads and Velcro paper,,, no power,,,,,, if you hit a bad spot,,, them will just jump over em, where the pc with a pad and/or a screen, it will cut through it
> 
> There is so much to say here,,,,, if you WANT to like the fesstool, what can i say,,,,, if you want to know what it is really all about,,,, get one of each and see which is cheaper, better, and lasts longer. I have a pc that i bought in 97 and it still runs,,,,,, never seen a fesstool go more than a cpl three years yet
> 
> ain't really rocket surgery ya know


No, not rocket surgery. But not the easiest thing to get onto doing well, either.

You could be right, Capt. Sounds like you know more about the Festool than I do. (Only 2-3 years life in one?)
As an fyi, I've got a PC, and a PC knockoff for backup. I appreciate their simplicity. Now if they would just telescope......

The job the Festool left - 1st Festool sanded job I've sponged behind - was nice; nice enough that I told the sander operator so. And especially since the guy running it was still in a learning stage with it a bit.
But the job was pretty tightly coated out before sanding started, so that made it easier.

It didn't seem a workout for him - maybe because the Festool vac was sucking it to the wall well enough. And no stopping to clean the vac filter, but kept even suction it seemed. Least amount of dust I've seen on a jobsite I've been on, where having dust was acceptable to the GC.

In the end, I'm not really a big fan of any one of the sander designs I've come across. They seem like they could be improved on a fair amount (and as soon as some manufacturer picks up on 2buck's awesome design, that should prove itself. I think.) :whistling2:


----------



## P.A. ROCKER

gazman said:


> This is the stuff that WallBoard Tools has. It is top shelf.
> 
> http://www.mirka.com/en/Abrasives/Net_Sanding_Range/?productgroup=&product=ABRANET___540


I can't find that here in the US in anything larger than 6".


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## jswain

Maybe you could buy online from Belmore?

http://www.belmoretools.co.uk/acatalog/Mirka_Abranet_225_mm_Drywall_Sanding_Mesh_Discs.html#a54223


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## JustMe

JustMe said:


> You could be right, Capt. Sounds like you know more about the Festool than I do. (Only 2-3 years life in one?)


Having given some thought on what I posted about this yesterday......

If one does get only 3 years out of a Festool, at a cost around say $1,200.00 for it, and you're doing a house a week on average with it, then excluding such things as the additional tax write-offs for owning a more expensive sander (and excluding the cost of fixing a PC that was used for that amount of time), that averages out to about $7.00/house for the Festool. If after all is said and done it can give you an additional return on investment of say $15.00/house over using something like a PC, through things like labour cost savings by not having to stop and clean the vac filter, maybe better quality sanding so less hand sanding needed - also maybe easier on the body because you can dial in the vac suction amount and it keeps the air I'm sucking in cleaner - that could still make it worth it, I'm thinking. To me, anyway.

If it could add to my being able to take on an extra house during those 3 years, because I could do more because of it, that would be another way I could think it might justify its added expense.

It also might make you look more 'professional' - like it's said hawk and trowel can do over pan & knife. That also might have value at times.

Which one to own could be situation dependent.

But I think I'll put my money towards trying out a 2buck power sander for my next sander. Once it's available. :wheelchair:


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## fr8train

PA spent $100 on his PC knockoff. Lasted over a year, till the fan broke, only other repair he had to make was to the cord. Sanding each house twice. Very little touch up behind him. He sanded flats, beads, and butts. I poled angles, and the occasional odd ball thing that the sander can't get to. Once we get to sponging, we cruise right through. 

IMO, I can't see the planex being worth the money. Esp when a $100 imitator works so well. 

Btw, festool isn't the only company that makes a vac with a self cleaning filter.


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## Capt-sheetrock

JustMe said:


> Having given some thought on what I posted about this yesterday......
> 
> If one does get only 3 years out of a Festool, at a cost around say $1,200.00 for it, and you're doing a house a week on average with it, then excluding such things as the additional tax write-offs for owning a more expensive sander (and excluding the cost of fixing a PC that was used for that amount of time), that averages out to about $7.00/house for the Festool. If after all is said and done it can give you an additional return on investment of say $15.00/house over using something like a PC, through things like labour cost savings by not having to stop and clean the vac filter, maybe better quality sanding so less hand sanding needed - also maybe easier on the body because you can dial in the vac suction amount and it keeps the air I'm sucking in cleaner - that could still make it worth it, I'm thinking. To me, anyway.
> 
> If it could add to my being able to take on an extra house during those 3 years, because I could do more because of it, that would be another way I could think it might justify its added expense.
> 
> It also might make you look more 'professional' - like it's said hawk and trowel can do over pan & knife. That also might have value at times.
> 
> Which one to own could be situation dependent.
> 
> But I think I'll put my money towards trying out a 2buck power sander for my next sander. Once it's available. :wheelchair:


A pc is like 480.00 a fesstool is like 2000.00 , okay, if you buy the pc vac, your into around 900.00, but a shop-vac from lowes, with a bag will do the same thing as any other vac,,,,do you HAVE a shop vac???? Again the point is, a pc will last 10 maybe 20 times longer than a fesstool.

I'd like to make this point again,,, If you have a cornerbead,, then a door 14" down the wall after the cornerbead turns,,,,, a fesstool will gouge out the wall and you will have to re-finish it,,, where a cheap arse pc won't. 

the vacs are basically the same, not 1.00 difference in em

The brushes on a pc are 6.50,,, if you grease the cable when you change the brushes,,,,, your pc will last over 20 years.

the pc uses a pad with a foam back,,, not a SOFT sorry foam pad that you slap a Velcro pad too. This may seem as a small point,,,, but you WANT your sander to CUT any high point left on the wall,,, them little foam pads won't do it,,,,, you ain't gotta take me word for it,,, try it for yourself.

nuff said,,,,, ifin you want to spend your money on a fesstool,,,, knock yourselves out


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## moore

So this cheapo will work well enough with the PC Sander?


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## Capt-sheetrock

moore said:


> So this cheapo will work well enough with the PC Sander?


 sho nuff,,,, just slap a bag in it, and add the "pizza" filter,,,,, a round filter that slips over the motor and you slide the ring down on it,,,,,,,, it will work just as good as the fesstool vac:yes:


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## saskataper

I'm sorry but any cheapo vac will not work as well as the Festool. This is the vac after sanding out my last house then slapping on the 36 grit to sand and vac the floors (I like the builder and I was about to hand him a bill for 20k) and it hasn't lost suction. 
I also have a big ass ridgid that I used with my PC and Sounds like crap now from all the dust and i did have the PC vac for a while which was a POS. 
as far as it lasting only three years that would surprise me as everything I know about there tools suggests otherwise and it comes with a three year warranty.


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## 2buckcanuck

Capt-sheetrock said:


> The pc is lighter than a fesstool, by that i mean, the motor on a pc is in the handle,,, not 4' up the handle.
> 
> The pc will flex where a fesstool won't,,,,, Can't say much mo about that, cept try it.
> 
> The fesstool uses them sorry weak little foam pads and Velcro paper,,, no power,,,,,, if you hit a bad spot,,, them will just jump over em, where the pc with a pad and/or a screen, it will cut through it
> 
> There is so much to say here,,,,, if you WANT to like the fesstool, what can i say,,,,, if you want to know what it is really all about,,,, get one of each and see which is cheaper, better, and lasts longer. I have a pc that i bought in 97 and it still runs,,,,,, never seen a fesstool go more than a cpl three years yet
> 
> ain't really rocket surgery ya know


Just some thoughts here.......

IMO they should revamp the power sander...

I have the knock off PC sander, best time it ever worked for me, was on a commercial job, 10 foot high sand ups. Who ever designed the PC, did not work in residential work. The PC always has to be held out away from you. So who ever designed the PC sander never had to sand out closets, and small rooms etc......It performs best in wide open areas.

Never ran the festool , but it is way too much money (PC 500 without vac, festool 1000 without vac)but the festool is more shack friendly, since it is telescopic. Your able to run the machine across the front of your body so...... doing 8 ft lay downs would be easy, well the PC is a pain in the arse. They should combine the two,,,,, but what would be better???????

Both the PC and festool are both designed with the assumption the taper will always be using a vacuum. So their designs are built around a vacuum tube, when the vacuum assembly should be secondary. Not all tapers use the vacuum.

Should be a sander designed around a telescopic handle first, then make the hose attachments secondary, then that would be a awesome light machine to run:yes:

Just my 2 bucks worth:blink:


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## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> A pc is like 480.00 a fesstool is like 2000.00 , okay, if you buy the pc vac, your into around 900.00, but a shop-vac from lowes, with a bag will do the same thing as any other vac,,,,do you HAVE a shop vac???? Again the point is, a pc will last 10 maybe 20 times longer than a fesstool.
> 
> I'd like to make this point again,,, If you have a cornerbead,, then a door 14" down the wall after the cornerbead turns,,,,, a fesstool will gouge out the wall and you will have to re-finish it,,, where a cheap arse pc won't.
> 
> the vacs are basically the same, not 1.00 difference in em
> 
> The brushes on a pc are 6.50,,, if you grease the cable when you change the brushes,,,,, your pc will last over 20 years.
> 
> the pc uses a pad with a foam back,,, not a SOFT sorry foam pad that you slap a Velcro pad too. This may seem as a small point,,,, but you WANT your sander to CUT any high point left on the wall,,, them little foam pads won't do it,,,,, you ain't gotta take me word for it,,, try it for yourself.
> 
> nuff said,,,,, ifin you want to spend your money on a fesstool,,,, knock yourselves out


Actually, I don't have a vac. I usually run my PC without, unless less dust is wanted. Then I borrow the GC's vac. Since I do mostly commercial, there's usually a vac around a jobsite. If not, I grab my wife's shop vac.

As I said previously, which sander to own could be situation dependent. For myself, a still somewhat shot shoulder and upper back muscles is making me look at tools with those in mind as well - what could make it easier on them. For the next guy, maybe it's the $ they cost that's priority. The next guy might want the best balance he can find between user friendly and cost. The next one figures that by paying extra, he'll make extra (or in some instances, by paying less, he can make extra).

When I see ongoing arguments about which particular type of tool is better, and no clear winner that pretty well everyone agrees on - no manufacturer has a seeming clear 'value monopoly' when it comes to the tools they make - it suggests to me that innovation in that area has bogged down some for awhile already. Most are copying what's already been out there for a time, and are just adding a few small tweaks of their own. Drywall sanders, auto tools, even hand tools, seem to be there.


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## JustMe

fr8train said:


> PA spent $100 on his PC knockoff. Lasted over a year, till the fan broke, only other repair he had to make was to the cord. Sanding each house twice. Very little touch up behind him. He sanded flats, beads, and butts. I poled angles, and the occasional odd ball thing that the sander can't get to. Once we get to sponging, we cruise right through.
> 
> IMO, I can't see the planex being worth the money. Esp when a $100 imitator works so well.
> 
> Btw, festool isn't the only company that makes a vac with a self cleaning filter.


I think I could have the same knockoff you're talking about. I can't see me being able to do as good a job with it as with my PC. It would also be more of a workout, physically.

But if PA can get those kind of results with one, then he's definitely better with a power sander than me.

I wonder what he might be able to do with a PC - any better, or not(?)


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## Square Foot

I have not been willing to take the plunge on the Festool due to price... and price alone. I find it hard to believe that this German designed and made product would not last an acceptable amount of time. It just would not be in Festools best interest. Also, Germans aren't known for throwing stuff together without doing a fair amount of R&D...just saying 

I've been using the PC's pretty much since they came out. I own 3 of them ( one cannibalized ) and two PC vacs. About two yrs ago, I had enough of sanding new construction with the sander alone....yes, it's more convenient than tripping over and getting tangled up with the hose but it frigging sucks wearing all that dust and hearing about it from the contractors. Anyway, I use with the vac as much as I can. This leaves less mess and provides a better wall finish. Also...Using the vac also helps in preventing premature brush and armature wear.

I agree with 2Buck in that the PC is designed for open space but until Porta cable makes a shorter version, I'll do what I've always done...sand the tight areas by hand. Heck....you still have to sand by hand anyways, so what's a little extra in a small area? Maybe I'll try what Gaz did and cut down a PC.

I've tried three different Chinese sanding units. Two were sent back and one was trashed. So, for me, it will be a PC or maybe a Festool down the road.


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## Capt-sheetrock

saskataper said:


> I'm sorry but any cheapo vac will not work as well as the Festool. This is the vac after sanding out my last house then slapping on the 36 grit to sand and vac the floors (I like the builder and I was about to hand him a bill for 20k) and it hasn't lost suction.
> I also have a big ass ridgid that I used with my PC and Sounds like crap now from all the dust and i did have the PC vac for a while which was a POS.
> as far as it lasting only three years that would surprise me as everything I know about there tools suggests otherwise and it comes with a three year warranty.


I know the fesstool comes with a 3 year warranty,,,, that's a good thing,,,, as your gonna need it,,,, In my experience, every fesstool I have seen on the job, had to be rebuilt before the 3 years were up..

I have used the fesstool vac, I have 2 PC vacs, one vac by a company I am not at liberty to disclose at the present (hint hint), and a cpl shop vacs . I don't see where the fesstool is any better than any of the other ones.

I disagree about the pc not being able to get close,,,,, any where you can run a zook, you can run a PC

perhaps it is because I have used a PC for so many years,,, but personally I can run cicles around the fesstool and the pc will NOT scar a wall like they will..

IMHO

I guess I can sum it up by saying this,,,,,,, I am not a fan of fesstool sanders.


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## Newagestucco

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I know the fesstool comes with a 3 year warranty,,,, that's a good thing,,,, as your gonna need it,,,, In my experience, every fesstool I have seen on the job, had to be rebuilt before the 3 years were up..
> 
> I have used the fesstool vac, I have 2 PC vacs, one vac by a company I am not at liberty to disclose at the present (hint hint), and a cpl shop vacs . I don't see where the fesstool is any better than any of the other ones.
> 
> I disagree about the pc not being able to get close,,,,, any where you can run a zook, you can run a PC
> 
> perhaps it is because I have used a PC for so many years,,, but personally I can run cicles around the fesstool and the pc will NOT scar a wall like they will..
> 
> IMHO
> 
> I guess I can sum it up by saying this,,,,,,, I am not a fan of fesstool sanders.


I never used a pc sander I like to try one thinking of buying one, as a spare sander, price is cheap enough but I think they be limited in a lot of tight areas , they would be good for ceilings I think 

I have a fest tool and it doesn't scar the walls, beads or butts at all
maybe my bead and butts are fill properly:thumbup:
I find it really works well in tight areas, we don't use a pole sander anymore I guess I cant compare it to a pc until I try one
we own the fest for aprox 6 months so time will tell how it holds up.
The 2000 investment was well worth it as of now ,even if it only lasted 3 years x700 hundred a year that works out to 13 dollars a week lol


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## JustMe

Capt-sheetrock said:


> one vac by a company I am not at liberty to disclose at the present (hint hint)


That's it, Capt. No 2buck special sander for you. lol



Newagestucco said:


> I have a fest tool and it doesn't scar the walls, beads or butts at all
> maybe my bead and butts are fill properly:thumbup:
> I find it really works well in tight areas, we don't use a pole sander anymore


That's what I found with the Festool sanded job I was following behind. No scarring (except for one spot, where the sander was started on the wall way wrong). I gave up using my pole sander as well, except for corners in the odd place, and some areas the Festool couldn't sand well, because they were too narrow.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Thinking about this thread today,,,,,,,

We all have different ways of doing things and different ideas about how they should produce.

If you like the fesstool, more power to ya,,, same if you like the PC,,,,



or even the cheap knock-offs (just kidding bout that)


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## moore

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thinking about this thread today,,,,,,,
> 
> We all have different ways of doing things and different ideas about how they should produce.
> 
> If you like the fesstool, more power to ya,,, same if you like the PC,,,,
> 
> 
> 
> or even the cheap knock-offs (just kidding bout that)


.....:whistling2:


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## Kiwiman

Just sanded a 330sqm house with the cheapy sander, took a bit over 2.5hrs, I tell you what...short sanders are the ducks nuts :thumbsup:
It got a bit heavy on one arm while doing the lids because of the motor up front, the soft vac hose is just a joke, the balance and where to hold it while doing walls makes me wish I had Gaz's short PC, I was expecting the motor to get hotter than it did, I was surprised how grunty the motor is and how well the sanding head performed, the big question is .....how long will it last.


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## P.A. ROCKER

moore said:


> .....:whistling2:


That's like $75 in sponges. Another $75 and you could have a cheap chinese* POWER* sander.


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## moore

P.A. ROCKER said:


> That's like $75 in sponges. Another $75 and you could have a cheap chinese* POWER* sander.


 Damn you PA..You've got me all depressed !

My count on that box came to $99 and that's about the amount of pads I use in a months time . [not including paper] 
that's $5148 a year. :blink: That's 3 festool sanders ! or  5 PC'S!!

!!!


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## fr8train

So are you getting a power sander now Moore?


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## moore

fr8train said:


> So are you getting a power sander now Moore?


Do I have a choice?


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## fr8train

moore said:


> Damn you PA..You've got me all depressed !
> 
> My count on that box came to $99 and that's about the amount of pads I use in a months time . [not including paper]
> that's $5148 a year. :blink: That's 3 festool sanders ! or  5 PC'S!!
> 
> !!!


or, 32 king sanders with enough left over to buy a year's worth of paper for them! :yes:


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## Kiwiman

moore said:


> Do I have a choice?


No you don't


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## JustMe

moore said:


> Damn you PA..You've got me all depressed !
> 
> My count on that box came to $99 and that's about the amount of pads I use in a months time . [not including paper]
> that's $5148 a year. :blink: That's 3 festool sanders ! or  5 PC'S!!
> 
> !!!


Unless I'm missing something.....$5148 would be $99/WEEK. $99 X 12 months should be $1,188.00.

I'd still consider getting me something like a Chinese shorty sander at those kind of sanding block $, moore. :yes:


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## moore

JustMe said:


> Unless I'm missing something.....$5148 would be $99/WEEK. $99 X 12 months should be $1,188.00.
> 
> I'd still consider getting me a Chinese shorty sander at those kind of sanding block $, moore. :yes:


 Your right !! I x it by 52 for some stupid reason
There's only 12 months in a year!!! Ain't been working lately ..Not thinking straight!:whistling2: The depression has set in ..maybe that's it.:blink:


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## JustMe

moore said:


> Your right !! I x it by 52 for some stupid reason
> There's only 12 months in a year!!! Ain't been working lately ..Not thinking straight!:whistling2: The depression has set in ..maybe that's it.:blink:


When I get around to building a decent version, I'll send you a 2buck Special Power Sander to pick you up. It comes with 2buck as an attachment.


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## P.A. ROCKER

JustMe said:


> Unless I'm missing something.....$5148 would be $99/WEEK. $99 X 12 months should be $1,188.00.
> 
> I'd still consider getting me something like a Chinese shorty sander at those kind of sanding block $, moore. :yes:


That's still a lot of loot on expendables. I use 2 discs a month if I don't booger em' up on something. Cost,,, about $1.80.
3-4 Harbor freight Sanding sponges a month @ .60 a piece= $2.50ish
Pole sander paper,,, maybe 4 sheets @ .20 a piece= .80
Dust masks 4 a month @ $2.00 a piece= $8.00
Grand total* $13.10 per month*. we do 52,000-58,000 sq ft a month.
Fr8 buys his own.:yes:

My bad the sponges are .40 a piece
http://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of-10-fine-grade-aluminum-oxide-sanding-sponges-46753.html


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## JustMe

P.A. ROCKER said:


> That's still a lot of loot on expendables. I use 2 discs a month if I don't booger em' up on something. Cost,,, about $1.80.
> 3-4 Harbor freight Sanding sponges a month @ .60 a piece= $2.50ish
> Pole sander paper,,, maybe 4 sheets @ .20 a piece= .80
> Dust masks 4 a month @ $2.00 a piece= $8.00
> Grand total* $13.10 per month*. we do 52,000-58,000 sq ft a month.
> Fr8 buys his own.:yes:
> 
> My bad the sponges are .40 a piece
> http://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of-10-fine-grade-aluminum-oxide-sanding-sponges-46753.html


And the wear and tear savings on body parts, which aren't so expendable, along with savings of the limited commodity of time......priceless. :yes:


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## saskataper

I just found this, another extendable sander. Doesn't really look like a winner to me though, as far as I can tell the head only pivots on one axis and that jet pack might just get a little annoying.

http://youtu.be/dlGN2NujuCI


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## JustMe

saskataper said:


> I just found this, another extendable sander. Doesn't really look like a winner to me though, as far as I can tell the head only pivots on one axis and that jet pack might just get a little annoying.
> 
> http://youtu.be/dlGN2NujuCI


Another one that video linked to, without the backpack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMdRtXSgVEI

Videos are fine, but when it comes to something like power sanding drywall, GIVE ME SOME CLOSEUPS. Is the thing doing a good job, or is it chewing things up and it's not showing because of the distance the video's been shot at.


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## VANMAN

saskataper said:


> I just found this, another extendable sander. Doesn't really look like a winner to me though, as far as I can tell the head only pivots on one axis and that jet pack might just get a little annoying.
> 
> http://youtu.be/dlGN2NujuCI


 How long for 1 joint? Must b cement he's sanding!!!
But i do like the idea of the backpack hoover thing as hoses and cables P**s me off!!:yes:


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## saskataper

I just sent an email to Festool service this morning with a question about my saw, I had a reply within the hour. Now that's customer service.


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## saskataper

I just sent an email to Festool service this morning with a question about my saw, I had a reply within the hour. Now that's customer service.


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## Wellst95

I was laying tile on the floor


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