# pre-fill before mesh.



## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i worked with another taper for a few days last summer. he was a straight mesh taper. one thing he did that i had never seen was pre-filling before laying mesh tape. next we went around and wiped out the mesh with a thin layer of 90 just to imbed the tape. after that it was just two premix coats as usual. it was an odd method to me because i had always assumed the reason people use mesh is to try and skip a coat not to do just as many coats as i would with paper. so i was wondering if there was anyone else who pre- fills before laying mesh. i have started doing it too cause it makes sense to me that no matter what kind of tape i am using i want it to be flat as possible not sucked into a wide open joint. my method now is i pre fill. let set. then with new batch, lay tape and then bed right away( only with mesh not paper). 

if the paper police could please abstain from turining this into another mesh/paper war that would be super. we all allready know who you are and what you think.


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

papertaper here but do use mesh from time to time, we always will prefill with hotmud when using mesh. We dont wait to dry tho,we just fill,put on mesh,wipe and throw a coat...turn around and top it:thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

there are many reason why to pre-fill when using paper. But does not Mesh have holes in it, and you half to use hotmud with it. Sorta pointless to prefill with it, since to state the obvious again, mesh has holes in it,,,, so......:whistling2:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

2buckcanuck said:


> there are many reason why to pre-fill when using paper. But does not Mesh have holes in it, and you half to use hotmud with it. Sorta pointless to prefill with it, since to state the obvious again, mesh has holes in it,,,, so......:whistling2:


....so does paper


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

oh boy...im not getting involved. lol


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I don't prefill when using mesh, because I want the mud surrounding the tape, from the same batch. I will if it's a big hole and the mesh will buckle when mudded, but otherwise, no. If I'm going to use mud to lay tape, it's going to be paper or Fuse (been using Fuse lately).


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

chris said:


> papertaper here but do use mesh from time to time, we always will prefill with hotmud when using mesh. We dont wait to dry tho,we just fill,put on mesh,wipe and throw a coat...turn around and top it:thumbsup:


that sounds pretty much the exact same as i've been doing it.


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

2buck, the reason i was wondering was because of that info from usg about how mesh gets its strength from the expansion of the hotmud putting tension on it. so i guess the point of this thread is i was intending to point out how when using mesh on a joint with a big gap and the hotmud shrinks back you now have a puckered tape that has lost the only strength it was supposed to gain. hence the prefill. 

hey slim, do you v out your joints before using mesh?

i've been v'ing out all my butt joints lately and prefilling no matter what i am taping with. it seems worthwhile to me because it feels like good insurance. i am feeling much more confident about the strength of my joints. i never thought it mattered but now that i've started doing it i don't think i'll go back. i always used to think it was some crazy time-wasting idea that a bunch of old neurotic tapers on here had. i really do feel the flatter the tape and the more mud in the joint the stronger the joint is.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> 2buck, the reason i was wondering was because of that info from usg about how mesh gets its strength from the expansion of the hotmud putting tension on it. so i guess the point of this thread is i was intending to point out how when using mesh on a joint with a big gap and the hotmud shrinks back you now have a puckered tape that has lost the only strength it was supposed to gain. hence the prefill.
> 
> hey slim, do you v out your joints before using mesh?
> 
> i've been v'ing out all my butt joints lately and prefilling no matter what i am taping with. it seems worthwhile to me because it feels like good insurance. i am feeling much more confident about the strength of my joints. i never thought it mattered but now that i've started doing it i don't think i'll go back. i always used to think it was some crazy time-wasting idea that a bunch of old neurotic tapers on here had. i really do feel the flatter the tape and the more mud in the joint the stronger the joint is.


Yeah, I 'V' them, but I only put a micro bevel on them, enough to get rid of any loose paper and crumbly rock. I've been going kinda overkill on my butts lately...I even go so far as to remove all the dust now (with a wet sponge or even some water & glue mixed together if I'm concerned). I had a joint crack a while back, after paint, and my only conclusion was that the mud hadn't bonded to the rock properly. It looked like failure at the point where mud and rock meet. V'd it more, washed it with water and glue, taped it with Fibafuse and setmud/glue. Didn't crack again, I just looked at it the other day and the repair was made in January.


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## Forced (Mar 19, 2012)

I've been prepping every butt joint for some time now... allways removing loose paper and prefilling them. I also use the fibatape as you mentioned above... although I only use fibatape for smaller jobs... like, 10 sheets or less, and for the butt joints I double it up .... I was having a problem with hairline cracks on butt joints with the fibatape... but since I doubled up the tape I dont. (its really 'if' and 'when' I use fibatape though)


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## Newagestucco (Apr 18, 2012)

When we did fiber tape. Still due for small jobs
I remember when we first started with it we would get hair 
line On the buts ,so we started cutting v in them pre filling we only use hot mud on mesh. But still would get hair lines ( I think if it's cold bit I don't help)
So we only use mesh for flats the buts and conners we use paper
I think mesh is ok in the bevels only ( that's my opinion 
When I work in Florida for a few years that was over20 years ago
I remember they use to mesh everything and no hot mud regular mud they use
But I think because is so warm down there they could get away with it


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

it sounds like we are all on the same page. i have only had one crack(that i know of) and fortunately i caught it on sand day. it was a butt to bevel joint over a doorway(no big suprise). this was a couple of years ago when i was less informed. 
i agree with the crack forming where the mud meets the rock. i'm pretty sure thats almost always where they are with mesh on butts.. paper would hide those for at least a few years i would think if not indefinately. cracks in a flat joint with mesh i think have to come from quite a bit of stress. i'd be willing to bet you could skip the tape and use hotmud on flats and have most of them not crack. not that i am in any way suggesting it. emphasis on the word MOST of them. 9 out of ten is not bad for some things but for a taper it just won't do.


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

Sorry Carp dont agree. Would you pour a concrete slab without steel mesh? I think not. For the same reason I would not set joints without tape at all. After all if we did that we would be fillers not tapers.:yes:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

gazman said:


> Sorry Carp dont agree. Would you pour a concrete slab without steel mesh? I think not. For the same reason I would not set joints without tape at all. After all if we did that we would be fillers not tapers.:yes:


I dont agree either, I would bet that within 12 months of a home getting built going thru 4 seasons 9 out of ten seams with no tape would crack.

Mesh :hang: Why oh why??????????????????????????????????


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## gazman (Apr 29, 2011)

10 out of 10 :yes:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Speaking of no tape on joints, whatever happened to our friendly neighborhood Vario rep?


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## carpentaper (Feb 28, 2009)

i didn't think about the seasonal differences. and cazna i said no paper police:jester:


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## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Something must definitely be wrong with Capt.....A mesh thread should attract him like a bear to honey :huh:


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Kiwiman said:


> Something must definitely be wrong with Capt.....A mesh thread should attract him like a bear to honey :huh:


 
I know, Ive been holding back doing an impression of him.

Like Dern man, Mesh isnt even any good to wipe your backside crack with.

If mesh could open a beer then it might have some use.

If i see a crack, tape it, and i still see a crack, Then its still cracked
(No wait, that one might be moores)

But i wont, Cause carpy will tell me off :thumbup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

carpentaper said:


> 2buck, the reason i was wondering was because of that info from usg about how mesh gets its strength from the expansion of the hotmud putting tension on it. so i guess the point of this thread is i was intending to point out how when using mesh on a joint with a big gap and the hotmud shrinks back you now have a puckered tape that has lost the only strength it was supposed to gain. hence the prefill.


Sounds like you answered your own question :yes::whistling2:


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Doing some patches at 2 different jobs but both have to do with speakers. Have a short vid started on some invisible speakers but got interupted while shootin vid. Will try and get another more detailed clip. If you look at pics you can see that just before I was done they realized opening wasnt small enough. 20 minute and mesh boom boom boom baby:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

chris said:


> Doing some patches at 2 different jobs but both have to do with speakers. Have a short vid started on some invisible speakers but got interupted while shootin vid. Will try and get another more detailed clip. If you look at pics you can see that just before I was done they realized opening wasnt small enough. 20 minute and mesh boom boom boom baby:thumbsup:


Pain in the ass eh? lol.
Patch work blows.


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

cazna said:


> I know, Ive been holding back doing an impression of him.
> 
> Like Dern man, Mesh isnt even any good to wipe your backside crack with.
> 
> ...




with or without hot mud?


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## cazna (Mar 28, 2010)

Bazooka-Joe said:


> with or without hot mud?


Depends if you had a nasty curry for dinner, Then it could be hotmud :yes:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

cazna said:


> i know, ive been holding back doing an impression of him.
> 
> Like dern man, mesh isnt even any good to wipe your backside crack with.
> 
> ...


 thank you!


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## Bazooka-Joe (Dec 31, 2010)

cazna said:


> Depends if you had a nasty curry for dinner, Then it could be hotmud :yes:


think curry and hotmud on the backside of a Glencoe Taper might have a chemical reaction or is that with the combo of all + Beer gas


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## FWCoxDrywallServices (May 8, 2011)

If I could put my 2 cents in .. When using mesh tape, I also pre-fill before putting on the mesh tape and here is why. The hot mud has to be a little thinned down so it can go through the holes of the mesh tape and into the joint. I have seen guys on the jobs use mesh tape with the mud to thick and it ends up cracking down the seam. Cut out the mesh and no mud in the gap of the board. So pre-filling prevents this. Now I know this is going to start a new topic but if the boards are stood up, I'll put the mesh tape up and not pre-fill the joint. I'll mix easy sand 45 or 90 (depending on the size of the job) with USG ultra lite all purpose (lime green lid) mud and run my coating box on 3 and coat the flats. When it dries it doesn't shrink and of course the mud is thinned so it can run through a pump and it goes through the holes of the mesh and into the gap of the board. In about 3 1/2 to 4 hours it's dry. Then come back and hit it with a 10 and then a 12 if need be. Comes out really nice and also fast.


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## bmedra9 (Apr 7, 2012)

*pre fill before*

when i use mesh i always pre fill with 20minute so i can fix any fractures then lay mesh down and bed with 90 so it lays down nice:thumbsup:


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## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

SlimPickins said:


> Speaking of no tape on joints, whatever happened to our friendly neighborhood Vario rep?


 
I'm around just haven't had the time to get on here


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## VANMAN (Jan 14, 2011)

rebel20 said:


> I'm around just haven't had the time to get on here


 Hey Rebel how r u?
Can u tell me if Gyproc in the UK r stocking ur Vario filler? I'm sure i have seen that advertised somewhere!


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

rebel20 said:


> I'm around just haven't had the time to get on here


I'm still waiting for you to force my supply house to carry your product:whistling2:


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## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

I have a nice big roll of mesh tape the only thing I use it for is a paper-weight!!


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## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

DLSdrywall said:


> I have a nice big roll of mesh tape the only thing I use it for is a paper-weight!!


That's all they should be used for. :thumbsup:


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## Mudstar (Feb 15, 2008)

cazna said:


> I dont agree either, I would bet that within 12 months of a home getting built going thru 4 seasons 9 out of ten seams with no tape would crack.
> 
> Mesh :hang: Why oh why??????????????????????????????????


I remember when :yes:


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Did you know that you have to marinate your meat before you can make Jerky?


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## betterdrywall (May 4, 2010)

Terriaki jerky turned out bad.. anyhoo, mesh has it's place but not on newly installed sheetrock inside an enitre home. Just sayin ya have too use some noodles sometime.


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