# F%$&ing smooth-wall



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I swear, I'm never going to let anyone talk me into doing a "cheap" smooth-wall again.

And.....from now on I prime it too.

We talked with the painter, and he agreed to really lay it on, which _should _be the equivalent of a L5 with a high-build primer. Sure, when there's a second guy back-rolling. This guy came in with a 3/8 nap roller, sprayed it pretty tight, and fell back to back-roll himself. Anyone know what happens when primer sits on the topping for a little while?

I wash my hands of it. ...........maybe.


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

SlimPickins said:


> I swear, I'm never going to let anyone talk me into doing a "cheap" smooth-wall again.
> 
> And.....from now on I prime it too.
> 
> ...


If you can skim coat you have an advantage in certain situations. Look at the job and think what's the alternative? Gut to the studs or hang board over it ( a lot of people bid high in this situation and want to run) so figure out the cost to the alternative and bid lower. It is our job to make as much money as we can. 

Good luck.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Next time tell him to use a water hose... serves the same purpose.

Your joints bucked/peaked out?...........


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> If you can skim coat you have an advantage in certain situations. Look at the job and think what's the alternative? Gut to the studs or hang board over it ( a lot of people bid high in this situation and want to run) so figure out the cost to the alternative and bid lower. It is our job to make as much money as we can.
> 
> Good luck.


 .....:blink:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Next time tell him to use a water hose... serves the same purpose.
> 
> Your joints bucked/peaked out?...........http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ssc_hiding2.gif


I don't understand a word of that. 

34 and going on strong.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> I don't understand a word of that.
> 
> 34 and going on strong.


Your a plasterer...You don't have jack leg painters spraying your board down with watered down primer, that wet board dries out then shrinks causing all the joints to buckle and peak. 

45 been there .done that.. seen it happen. sorry Slim...I was only gonna post once here...but


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## fenez (Nov 30, 2009)

Honestly guys, I've said it many many times here before, if they want level 5 then they pay for level 5.... If a job has critical light then level 5 is what it needs, if a job has glossy paint then it needs level 5. It's not your problem that they don't like to pay for it. It doesn't matter that the GC. Has seen walls painted with high gloss and they were perfect without level 5, it doesn't matter that guys claim their level 4 is just as good as level 5. Level 5 is just a way of making sure the walls look uniform, why risk all the margin for error when it's just easier to know straight away that it needs to be done in certain situations, that's just my 2cents


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> Your a plasterer...You don't have jack leg painters spraying your board down with watered down primer, that wet board dries out then shrinks causing all the joints to buckle and peak.
> 
> 45 been there .done that.. seen it happen. sorry Slim...I was only gonna post once here...but


Wet down wood lath so it doesn't buckle a break the keys. Are you from Boston? 

My plaster is 46 still slinging. Once you got it its good exercise


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> Wet down wood lath so it doesn't buckle a break the keys. Are you from Boston?
> 
> My plaster is 46 still slinging. Once you got it its good exercise


 I don't understand a word of that...:blink:


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

moore said:


> Next time tell him to use a water hose... serves the same purpose.
> 
> Your joints bucked/peaked out?...........


Joints...in general, are alright. A few minor shrinkage areas here and there. Screws shrunk down a fair amount. You can't see anything in regular light, but shine a light down the wall and blammo! There are a couple of critical light walls......we'll see how it shakes out after final coat of paint is on.

My friend and I gutted and remodeled this house. He's kept me busy working for 6 months. He doesn't like spray textures and wanted it done cheap. He asked for smooth. I told him that wasn't cost effective. He told me he'd like it semi-smooth then......a little better than ready-for-texture, we'll call it a L3.5 (it's a crooked old house after all). I brought it as close as I could to L4 (without major floats to fix funked up framing) and still saved him a pile of money, and up until 2 days before prime we were going to prime it.

Turns out the painter he usually uses was sitting, and needed some work and would hit it cheap. I think he's doing a nice job, but I swear, no one knows how to finish smooth sh!t. If you let the primer sit on the joints, the stipple will pull differently than on the rock. That's the way it is. Either back-roll it right away, or don't. Sanding between coats is pretty much essential too. The painter said this was the best "poor man's smooth wall" he's ever seen (meaning no L5) which is a nice compliment, but now it's just kind of nasty. At least in my eyes, anyway. I know I shouldn't want it to be perfect, but I do, and it could have been pretty damn close.

Sorry, I'm just venting. I should never have relinquished control of my final product.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> Joints...in general, are alright. A few minor shrinkage areas here and there. Screws shrunk down a fair amount. You can't see anything in regular light, but shine a light down the wall and blammo! There are a couple of critical light walls......we'll see how it shakes out after final coat of paint is on.
> 
> My friend and I gutted and remodeled this house. He's kept me busy working for 6 months. He doesn't like spray textures and wanted it done cheap. He asked for smooth. I told him that wasn't cost effective. He told me he'd like it semi-smooth then......a little better than ready-for-texture, we'll call it a L3.5 (it's a crooked old house after all). I brought it as close as I could to L4 (without major floats to fix funked up framing) and still saved him a pile of money, and up until 2 days before prime we were going to prime it.
> 
> ...


dont hold it in...let it all out ...were here for you:thumbsup:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Sometimes you are the dog this time your the tree. i feel ya brother. Just got home from a large ceiling repair. the painter primed , turned on the LP gas then left before pullling any plastic. Basicallly swamped me to death. For time I have eleven hours on this bitch. Leveling then skim coating entire ceiling. Then spray and backroll. Tommorow I get to spray another coat. Materials 2 pails of mud , couple rolls of blue tape, roll of plastic. GC is such a nice guy he provided the paint. Anyways I am eating this one but we worked out a new deal so that i get to spray prime my own houses. That and he will never use LP gas to heat his homes. I like the preprite 200 for a primer but for ceilings near water or get lots of sunlight I am sold on the SWP Builders solutions. With the BS spray on heavy with no backroll. Its very thick so a decent size sprayer and a ceramic ball is needed, but it dries fast and gives kinda a level 4 and a half finish.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

icerock drywall said:


> dont hold it in...let it all out ...were here for you:thumbsup:


I really do try to be a super happy fun times kind of guy in here, but sometimes my vagina hurts too much.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

SlimPickins said:


> I really do try to be a super happy fun times kind of guy in here, but sometimes my vagina hurts too much.


 
some people think the mud men can fix it all !!! the hangers need to say ..hay ($%^) shim that wall we are not going to hang that


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

boco said:


> Sometimes you are the dog this time your the tree. i feel ya brother. Just got home from a large ceiling repair. the painter primed , turned on the LP gas then left before pullling any plastic. Basicallly swamped me to death. For time I have eleven hours on this bitch. Leveling then skim coating entire ceiling. Then spray and backroll. Tommorow I get to spray another coat. Materials 2 pails of mud , couple rolls of blue tape, roll of plastic. GC is such a nice guy he provided the paint. Anyways I am eating this one but we worked out a new deal so that i get to spray prime my own houses. That and he will never use LP gas to heat his homes. I like the preprite 200 for a primer but for ceilings near water or get lots of sunlight I am sold on the SWP Builders solutions. With the BS spray on heavy with no backroll. Its very thick so a decent size sprayer and a ceramic ball is needed, but it dries fast and gives kinda a level 4 and a half finish.


Ugh.....they just won't give us a break, f***ing painters:laughing: 

It's okay....every time I'm the tree, it brings me one step closer to not being the tree any more.:thumbsup:

Maybe I'll open a pizzeria or some sh!t.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

icerock drywall said:


> some people think the mud men can fix it all !!! the hangers need to say ..hay ($%^) shim that wall we are not going to hang that


It's true. On this job, I was the hanger. I had a 42" butt on this one that was 42" at the top, 40-1/16th at the bottom. 1" out on the left, 7/8" on the right. I needed a level just to figure out how to get boards up without 1" gaps everywhere. 

If this house had everything fixed that was wrong with it, it would be a $500,000 house in a $200,000 neighborhood. Kudos to my friend for having a vision and saving it from the landfill. No kudos to me for relaxing my standards.....I'm not the cheap drywall guy, I'm the do-it-right drywall guy......just not this time


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## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Funny this thread started today.. I was just informed this morning that the " Remodel from Hell" that we are doing is going to be Level 5 Smooth :blink:. The owners wife is an interior designer with alot of artsy fartsy friends from Frisco:whistling2:.. Anyways she tells me that " texture doesnt look perfect" referring to the texture samples she requested. I said its bid for texture,, Level 5 costs a hole lot more, after further discussion her and builder confirmed it.. I wish I would have known before hand as I would have used more shims and some buttboard on a couple crucial walls. Oh well , they are willing to pay so let the skimmin begin:thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

I've seen shallow screws level out after the prime dries...don't ask me why or how..I'm not a painter.


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## Mudslinger (Mar 16, 2008)

Could be worse Slim, I just finished taping a L5 house, and the painter primed it before I came to sand it. I was ahead of schedule, but they didn't want a day off or were to dumb to see it wasn't sanded. As the builder said it's the painters problem to fix it, but I was pissed all weekend thinking about it. On the bright side I got to go to the bar early, without having to sand.


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## icerock drywall (Nov 13, 2010)

the job I am on now went like this

how much is your bid to mud this house? I said I would never mud it!!
he said why ?
well the hanger should of never gave you a bid
he said why whats wrong with my house

well you took off the lath and plaster now you need to shim and fur it out and now fix the gang outlets and can lights ,...
...this place need alot of work

6 weeks later I am now just in the house and he set me up with two other jobs


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> I've seen shallow screws level out after the prime dries...don't ask me why or how..I'm not a painter.


A roofer on acid told me the same thing.


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## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

Okay........

This is EXACTLY why I come here day after day and talk about work after I'm done working. You guys make me feel better.

At the risk of making my vagina start crying, Thank you for just being you, you crazy bunch of awesome whack jobbers.:thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> A roofer on acid told me the same thing.


 was it blue micro-dot acid? That chits trippy!!!:yes:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

moore said:


> I've seen shallow screws level out after the prime dries...don't ask me why or how..I'm not a painter.


Ha ha. I know why but aint tellin. JKJK. My theory is that the paper is swollen a bit and the stipple flattens around the screws giving the appearance of a shallow screw. Cant really touch it to find out. I dont normally prime at nite with a 300w, but when i do. i get scared and call myself the butcher of Bagdad. Only to come back the next day and be happy again. Moral of the story. Dont watch your paint dry. :thumbup:


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## Mr.Brightstar (Dec 2, 2011)

moore said:


> was it blue micro-dot acid? That chits trippy!!!:yes:


Far out man. Yeah


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr.Brightstar said:


> A roofer on acid told me the same thing.


 don't let it take you where it wants to go...
Just go with it man!


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

moore said:


> I've seen shallow screws level out after the prime dries...don't ask me why or how..I'm not a painter.


My theory is the same a sboco's. When the primer goes on, the moisture in the primer is absorbed by the mud and paper and swells around the screw but not where the screw is as much since it is just mud and metal, no paper. Metal won't absorb moisture obviously. That's why all the screw heads take longer to dry than the mud surrounding them and the same thing with the taped seams vs the drywall paper. The seams always take longer to dry off compared to the paper. I sprayed and double backrolled (two guys rolling one after the other right behind me) About 4500 sqf today 9' lids. There were a few moments where I started saying "ah ****" to myself. Buy quitting time she was lookin much better. Another is a but joint. U ever notice the tape if its shallow seems to pop out as soon as it skimmed? Then when it's totally dry it shrinks back. Same as primer. I find mud that has been watered down actually swells more when it gets primed. Maybe I'm wrong who knows. I bet over Half of my screws looked sunk in today. Light checkout tomorrow then ceiling flat spray extra fat. FYI Benjamin Moore drywall primer is the shizzy.


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> My theory is the same a sboco's. When the primer goes on, the moisture in the primer is absorbed by the mud and paper and swells around the screw but not where the screw is as much since it is just mud and metal, no paper. Metal won't absorb moisture obviously. That's why all the screw heads take longer to dry than the mud surrounding them and the same thing with the taped seams vs the drywall paper. The seams always take longer to dry off compared to the paper. I sprayed and double backrolled (two guys rolling one after the other right behind me) About 4500 sqf today 9' lids. There were a few moments where I started saying "ah ****" to myself. Buy quitting time she was lookin much better. Another is a but joint. U ever notice the tape if its shallow seems to pop out as soon as it skimmed? Then when it's totally dry it shrinks back. Same as primer. I find mud that has been watered down actually swells more when it gets primed. Maybe I'm wrong who knows. I bet over Half of my screws looked sunk in today. Light checkout tomorrow then ceiling flat spray extra fat. FYI Benjamin Moore drywall primer is the shizzy.


 I knew I wasn't crazy:yes:


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

What type of BM primer have you been using? My next job the owner already purchased all the Benmoore finish paint. I usually use SWP preprite 200n but I wouldnt mind trying a BM primer.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

boco said:


> What type of BM primer have you been using? My next job the owner already purchased all the Benmoore finish paint. I usually use SWP preprite 200n but I wouldnt mind trying a BM primer.


This would be what I use boco. Super spec but in the 5 gal buckets.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

It's a very thick primer. The 100 mesh fine filters in my spray gun are really too fine for it. My spray pattern leaves sml trails but no problem there with back rolling . I should be using the 50 med mesh. I do find however after every 5 gallons I have to clean the filter( takes at most 5 mins) for some reason it seems to have alot of very tiny particles in it or my line has a bunch of crap in it and is likely clogging up my filter.


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Hey thanks. i will give it a try. I dont usually keep filters in my sprayer or gun when priming. Kind of a secret for getting more pressure and is easier on your pump in the long run. i always use the paint strainer in a 5 gal bucket trick. Cut small slit on side then place pump in. :thumbsup:


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## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

jcampbell said:


> It's a very thick primer. The 100 mesh fine filters in my spray gun are really too fine for it. My spray pattern leaves sml trails but no problem there with back rolling . I should be using the 50 med mesh. I do find however after every 5 gallons I have to clean the filter( takes at most 5 mins) for some reason it seems to have alot of very tiny particles in it or my line has a bunch of crap in it and is likely clogging up my filter.


 Painters guts...From those 5 gallon pails of paint..The whole 5 gallons needs to be used up once the top is opened?


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

moore said:


> Painters guts...From those 5 gallon pails of paint..The whole 5 gallons needs to be used up once the top is opened?


Are you calling the crap in the buckets/paint , painters guts? Well , I can only use up about everything but the last 2.5 inches . My strainer is that deep and sucks air when it gets too low. Just run a new bucket then transfer leftovers from previous . Clean out empty buckets and save .


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

I just take clean 5. then put a strainer bag inside. Tape off the top so it doesnt slide down when you add paint. Then cut a slit at the top and place sprayer pickup inside. Then just add paint as you go. Try and keep full to avoid the edges from drying. then when you go on smoke break just place a piece of plastic or a wet rag to cover paint. For extended breaks a splash of water on the top never hurts. What you are picking up in your filter is the high solids in the paint. Clogged filters will kill your pump. Not only the motor but the packings too. Strain your paint. Remove filters. Turn sprayer to full blast and go to town. Dont store sprayer in water, use thinner or kerosene. My 2003 Graco 795 has 4000 gals through it and never had the packings replaced. I am on my 3rd gun though. Use filters only when doing exterior or when you need to control overspray.


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## jcampbell (Aug 26, 2012)

boco said:


> I just take clean 5. then put a strainer bag inside. Tape off the top so it doesnt slide down when you add paint. Then cut a slit at the top and place sprayer pickup inside. Then just add paint as you go. Try and keep full to avoid the edges from drying. then when you go on smoke break just place a piece of plastic or a wet rag to cover paint. For extended breaks a splash of water on the top never hurts. What you are picking up in your filter is the high solids in the paint. Clogged filters will kill your pump. Not only the motor but the packings too. Strain your paint. Remove filters. Turn sprayer to full blast and go to town. Dont store sprayer in water, use thinner or kerosene. My 2003 Graco 795 has 4000 gals through it and never had the packings replaced. I am on my 3rd gun though. Use filters only when doing exterior or when you need to control overspray.


What do you use for a strainer bag? I like to try that and go with no filter in the gun on the next job and see how it goes. Thanks for the info!


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## boco (Oct 29, 2010)

Heres the bags i use. Just make sure to get the 5 gallon


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