# Salary and Pay



## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

What do you fellow tapers think about this. I was offered a full time position with a company that has work, but they will only pay x amount per hour which is a little low, but in this economy I think it is OK..however if I ever get a better offer I go..what do you all think..I will of course not work as fast as I want to, but will still produce..


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## TonyM (Aug 4, 2008)

tapingfool said:


> What do you fellow tapers think about this. I was offered a full time position with a company that has work, but they will only pay x amount per hour which is a little low, but in this economy I think it is OK..however if I ever get a better offer I go..what do you all think..I will of course not work as fast as I want to, but will still produce..


Depends if you can comfortably live off what they are paying.
Why would you not work as fast?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Yeh, that attitude won't go too far in my camp fella. Start with the idea that if their paying 12 they're gonna get 12 from me. That's bs and they'll find someone else. If they're paying 12, better give 20 worth or you'll be lucky to stay on at all. Just my .02. Bird in the hand.....


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## big george (Feb 7, 2009)

tapingfool said:


> What do you fellow tapers think about this. I was offered a full time position with a company that has work, but they will only pay x amount per hour which is a little low, but in this economy I think it is OK..however if I ever get a better offer I go..what do you all think..I will of course not work as fast as I want to, but will still produce..


 This is a slow time,What ever it takes to make a weeks pay.If you work full time you still have chance to work some on you own time.There's not much money sitting in front of the computer.


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

TonyM said:


> Depends if you can comfortably live off what they are paying.
> Why would you not work as fast?


Well theres no reason for me to blitz thru their work with my trusty bazooka, especially if they can't give me more work if I rush thru it at normal speed. they can give me steady work, but I must keep it slow due to their sheetrockers..not because I want to work slowly..


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Yeh, that attitude won't go too far in my camp fella. Start with the idea that if their paying 12 they're gonna get 12 from me. That's bs and they'll find someone else. If they're paying 12, better give 20 worth or you'll be lucky to stay on at all. Just my .02. Bird in the hand.....


I have been in this trade over 20 yrs, no way I am gonna be let go by anyone with a brain that can think for themselves:furious:, I have proven time and again that I can bury hand tapers, thus proving my worth..:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

Maybe I mistook your meaning then. 

Here's my point. I walked in on my guys chatting a few years ago. The new guy was baggin' that he wasn't gonna put out but x$ worth if I was only paying x$. Meaning to me, he didn't want a raise or for that matter the job I had provided. My point is to keep a job and move up the employee has to turn out enough work for the boss to A) keep said employee another day, & B) see that he/she wants to move up the ladder. An hourly position IMO is an invite only affair. If the boss is not happy with output, no invite for tomorrow.

PS: That guy got disinvited on the spot.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yeh, that attitude won't go too far in my camp fella. Start with the idea that if their paying 12 they're gonna get 12 from me. That's bs and they'll find someone else. If they're paying 12, better give 20 worth or you'll be lucky to stay on at all. Just my .02. Bird in the hand.....


AMEN.

(taping fool, no offense...but please consider the other side of the coin as well -- its always a 2 way street)


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe I mistook your meaning then.
> 
> Here's my point. I walked in on my guys chatting a few years ago. The new guy was baggin' that he wasn't gonna put out but x$ worth if I was only paying x$. Meaning to me, he didn't want a raise or for that matter the job I had provided. My point is to keep a job and move up the employee has to turn out enough work for the boss to A) keep said employee another day, & B) see that he/she wants to move up the ladder. An hourly position IMO is an invite only affair. If the boss is not happy with output, no invite for tomorrow.
> 
> PS: That guy got disinvited on the spot.


jeez, AMEN again.

well put.

i got a 2 laborers for example....both were hired at the same time @ 10 bucks an hour....about 2 months ago.

one of them works his AZZ off....and is clearly trying to prove to me that he has long term worth with my company. never complains, just gives 110%....or, gives me 12 bucks an hour, when i only pay him 10, lets put it like that.

on the OTHER hand....my other laborer @ 10 bucks an hour is so unmotivated....complains.....unresponsible.....and just plain lazy. in other words, he gives me more like 9.50 an hour, while i pay him 10........and in actuality, hes hardly worth min. wage -- 8 bucks an hour. this is the type of employee who will do ONLY what you tell him and nothing more.......this is the type of guy who is watching the clock like a hawk when its 4:59pm.........and no more than 3 seconds past 5pm, his car is already pulling out of the parking lot.

i actually got rid of him a week ago. just couldnt stand the guy anymore.

what pretty much did it for me, was 2 weeks ago when i asked him if he could work for me on a saturday, at a big custom home job we were doing. i basically wanted him to clean and scrape the floors of this house, to get it ready for a final walkthru i was to perform with the owners on monday morning.

he flat out declined me saying "you told me its not required to work on weekends. sorry, i have plans."

.....

can you believe this guy...?

knowing he was lazier than hell, i even told him "you dont even have to go there early on saturday morning....sleep in, and go in the afternoon...i basically just need it clean by monday morning, i dont care when you go"

so....yea....i let him go a week later.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

To Tapingfool: Did the guy hire you, or you and your bazooka? A guy with his own tools IS worth more to the contractor than without. I support a position based on that, but if it's simply begrudging him a profit, then I'd urge you to rethink....


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## muddymen (Feb 3, 2009)

Ok fix everything and pay by the foot! If a I pay a man 10.00 hr and he has the attitude that he will only do 10hr worth of work what I found out is if I give him a raise to 13hr then maybe for one week he'll do 13 or 14hr worth of work but then he's back to giving me only 10hr worth so in the long run I lost he won(works the same and makes more)I guess hes running the show now! Bottom line is people with that mentality never change and need to be taking my order at the fast food joint.


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> To Tapingfool: Did the guy hire you, or you and your bazooka? A guy with his own tools IS worth more to the contractor than without. I support a position based on that, but if it's simply begrudging him a profit, then I'd urge you to rethink....


 He heard thru others at the job site that I am worth hiring, so he made me an offer, it is for full time work no benefits. I can run with tools if getting paid piece work, or simply still do alot of work, just not as much with hourly pay..point is it's win win for him, I don't want to burn myself out..


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

I think you Employers forget what it is like to be an employee with bills..If you r making money no matter how much I produce when you demand more it is just greed..


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2008)

tapingfool said:


> I think you Employers forget what it is like to be an employee with bills..If you r making money no matter how much I produce when you demand more it is just greed..


Employers have bills too, you just gotta add a zero or two at the end of yours. I've had this discussion with other guys for years, your situation is not unique. I grant you that the ownership of tools makes you worth more, what more do you want? 

And let's see here...the reason you're considering this job is this guy has work and you don't. One would think you'd be glad for an opportunity to earn instead of wail about how unfair capitalism is, how all employers are greedy.:furious: Where would you be without someone else creating the possibility of work for you to do? So if it's all about greed on the employers end, what do you call all this tude from you about how much work you'll turn out for a given amount of pay? Is that not greed on your part? Or is it sour grapes? Pot calling the kettle black, eh? Every single DW contractor I know has seen his share of guys with this very outlook, we've all got our own ways of dealing with it.

End of my rant.

On a more friendly note: Some advice--don't burn any bridges right about now. This economy may have flattened out for the time being, but may yet be another big drop around the corner this fall/winter. If this guy is willing to put you on, even if you're not thrilled about the $, this job may be very, very important to you a year or two from now.

Rip away if you want. I stand firmly on my convictions that a guy ought to be working at moving up the scale instead of getting his ego on.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

Darren,
That's was right on the Money! Excellent.
Taping if you think being the Boss is so easy try it, Good luck


www.frankawitz.net


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

Frankawitz said:


> Darren,
> That's was right on the Money! Excellent.
> Taping if you think being the Boss is so easy try it, Good luck
> 
> ...



EXACTLY.

what Darren said is 100% spot on. step into the shoes of a business owner Taping.

i can 'see' where you are coming from taping, but it is just extremely narrow-minded quite honestly. to make statements as you have made, or implications more or less of how business owners are greedy, well....you just dont have any room to say those things UNLESS youve been on the other side as an employER.

think how 'america' would be (or the rest of the world) if they all had the same attitude as you did........if businesses and corporations goal wasnt to 'make money' but to simply exchange goods and services for cost because 'theyre afraid to make money'.....'afraid of being "greedy"'.....'afraid to operate at their FULL potential'

capitalism, for the most part, has always been a good thing Taping. you sound more like youd enjoy living in communist China or Russia.

Darren is right....you should be lucky your EMPLOYER is even having a job available to you.

youre lucky businesses are even making enough money TO hire people. ....think about that?

if businesses all thought as idiotic as you, there'd be no jobs available. you know why? maybe because theyre all too busy trying to not be 'greedy' and they simply CANT AFFORD to hire more employees!

bottomline, capitalism works taping. simply put, the idea is that people that have wealth usually reinvest it into the economy to CREATE more wealth and jobs (no comments on the current administration....)

its fundamental economics.

hahahha.....so no offense man, but its just hilarious what you said above. completely laughable. i wont get offended because it is clearly being said without a full understanding of the economy, therefore it is an ignorant comment.

again, no offense intended at all -- just being honest.


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## hjrdrywal (Mar 14, 2009)

I'd like to see how taping would handle the stress that a owner has , sometimes its hard to handle ,and being not that long ago from myself being the one hanging,finishing,and instructing crews where to go and what to do is just a bunch of bs that he actually thinks that . (just another pre-madona taper we have here fella's)


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## A+ Texture LLC (Jan 10, 2009)

You guys are being hard on this guy. I will do anything to provide for my wife and kids, sometimes you gotta look out for yourself because nobody else will. I know what it's like being the boss. It simply means your the asshole even when your not. How many of us had people try to take advantage of us? It's no different. Hey taping, do whatever you want, just have a clear conscience when you go to bed, thats all that matters.


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## Whitey97 (Jan 27, 2009)

I wish I could go to work and have a guaranteed check every week with set hours. I say do it! It's over rated being the boss. No, I wouldn't change it, and I enjoy what I do, but if you're even questioning it, what do you have to loose? you can always go back to the way it was. my .02


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## rabb (Mar 22, 2008)

*i am at home*

HI ,JUST BE GLAD FOR THE job, I HAVE BEEN OFF FOR 9MO NOW ,i am 53 and all the new guy's are about 20 and up , when i was 20 i was fast as hell but now mmmm, i hate i got in to drywall now, so you got tool ,and i don't ,who will get the JOB ,the guy with the tool , JUST BE HAPPY :thumbup:


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## hwndrywlr (May 28, 2009)

tapingfool said:


> What do you fellow tapers think about this. I was offered a full time position with a company that has work, but they will only pay x amount per hour which is a little low, but in this economy I think it is OK..however if I ever get a better offer I go..what do you all think..I will of course not work as fast as I want to, but will still produce..


I always thought when I'm working for someone if I'm not producing double the amount i'm getting paid then it's not worth the employer keeping me around.I figure if I'm making him the same amount of money he's paying me then he will always give me work.Now that I'm on my own I realize that most guys don't think like that


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

No Initiative=No Future Work. We have always given a quality job regardless of the pay(usually per sheet) and although we didn't get a bonus or even a " Good Job" in most cases the effort showed and we stayed busy longer than those who just did "acceptable". Even when your boss or contractor doesn't acknowledge your expertise the word gets around what kind of work you do and what attitude you have.


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## joepro0000 (Jun 14, 2008)

Trust me guys, the way the situation is now, 90% of hourly guys are not going to put in 100% effort, because they are going to say- Well if I work hard, great, but then there might not be no work next week. So let me slow down!

F- That- piecework works betteR!


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## evolve991 (Jan 24, 2008)

joepro0000 said:


> Trust me guys, the way the situation is now, 90% of hourly guys are not going to put in 100% effort, because they are going to say- Well if I work hard, great, but then there might not be no work next week. So let me slow down!
> 
> F- That- piecework works betteR!


 
:thumbup: 
I hate hourly.


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## Frankawitz (Aug 13, 2008)

I always set my guys up with 20% to 30% after materials this way they can set their own wage per hour, I have found that if you offer pay by the job they want to keep up a good pace and they also keep Quality in mind. I pay my helpers by the hour and their job is keeping jobsite cleaned up and just grunt work. if a guy knows what they are doing they can make some good money and I make money so I can keep them busy. Good luck


www.frankawitz.net


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## murbuddy (May 30, 2009)

If I was you, you may want to set on paper how much you need to live on. If your going to making that kind of money you need to live on take it and stay with it. Don't be a fool and leave when a better offer comes by. You will end up going down the river with out a paddle!


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## tapingfool (Mar 11, 2009)

well, well to make this quick, first off I never called any employers greedy..Secondly, I was offered a better position with his competitor the next day, and have gotten 2 raises in that time, I started out with x, kicked ass, then he raised me to Y and now I make Z..
All this after running my own crew for 8 years..So iv'e been there..


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## R.E. Plaster (Jun 27, 2009)

If you take on a job that you asked for it's your responsibility to do your best if you do it will pay off down the road, if you don't you might just be down the road.


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## Alberta*Tapers (Sep 27, 2009)

ah hourly sucks in comparison to piece work but if its all you got, then do it. at least you will be guaranteed money coming in. economy is rough at the moment. 

But i say work as you would normally. maybe in the end you will be able to prove your worth, and get paid piece work. there are alot of slackers out there, so obviously on the go boss man isnt gonna give you the world til you prove your worth it


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

Speaking as a two sider, EE and ER, 27 years in this industry has taught me that some guys are working a job and some guys are building a career. Some are merely doing what they have to do to put bread on the table. Everyone of us in here are different just like evryone on the job is different. It's all a mindset. Guys that work hard generally don't have the time to piss and moan because they ARE busy. Complainers and slackers have that time because theyare slackers and complainers. Life has a way of rewarding the workers and punishing the dead weight. Each man earns his own reward. Personally, I find that the days go quickly when I stay focused on the work at hand and not everything else in life. Especially when money is on the line. anyone who is worrying about what they are making should have cut a better deal up front.


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## rockdaddy (Jul 2, 2009)

Better Idea yet..........Why not work as fast as you normally do and impress the hell out of em and get a raise?


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## eastex1963 (Nov 6, 2008)

rockdaddy said:


> Better Idea yet..........Why not work as fast as you normally do and impress the hell out of em and get a raise?


Yeah, that's a great theory, but more times than not, the GC's really don't give a ****. They just want it done. Period. Believe me, you're NOT impressing them. There are guys lined up waiting to take your job. The GC's usually have a truck full of drywaller's business cards. And, there's always a bigger, better mouse trap. Bid the jobs fair, do the work in a timely manner. ALWAYS do what you say you're going to. And thank God at night that you still have a job. Also, it might not be a bad idea to save some $$$ for a rainy day.


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

eastex1963 said:


> Yeah, that's a great theory, but more times than not, the GC's really don't give a ****. They just want it done. Period. Believe me, you're NOT impressing them. There are guys lined up waiting to take your job. The GC's usually have a truck full of drywaller's business cards. And, there's always a bigger, better mouse trap. Bid the jobs fair, do the work in a timely manner. ALWAYS do what you say you're going to. And thank God at night that you still have a job. Also, it might not be a bad idea to save some $$$ for a rainy day.


:drink:

i completely agree.

as i also completely agree with this *below* as well


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

rockdaddy said:


> Speaking as a two sider, EE and ER, 27 years in this industry has taught me that some guys are working a job and some guys are building a career. Some are merely doing what they have to do to put bread on the table. Everyone of us in here are different just like evryone on the job is different. It's all a mindset. Guys that work hard generally don't have the time to piss and moan because they ARE busy. Complainers and slackers have that time because theyare slackers and complainers. Life has a way of rewarding the workers and punishing the dead weight. Each man earns his own reward. Personally, I find that the days go quickly when I stay focused on the work at hand and not everything else in life. Especially when money is on the line. anyone who is worrying about what they are making should have cut a better deal up front.


:drink:


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## Custom Drywall Svc. (Oct 31, 2008)

its a fkked up world, yes.............but both u guys are completely right.


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## rebel20 (Jun 4, 2009)

Here it works a bit different you get a base pay and all raises after that are voluntary so when economy bad you may only get base pay. You still got work though. You do poor performance I take away your raise and your back to base pay or on the street looking for work. You perform I will gradually increase your base and your voluntary pay. It's a bit complicated but it keeps your guy's performing. 

Rebel


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