# Never-Miss Coloring



## remcraz (Dec 20, 2011)

Has anybody had any experience with this Never-Miss on touch up or suggest something else that want bleed through paint. I would like to know the pro's and con's
Thanks


----------



## PrecisionTaping (Feb 2, 2012)

This was discussed on Contractor Talk a little while back before I joined this site. Here's the link.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f49/never-miss-need-some-feedback-112277/


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/tinting-drywall-mud-402/


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I use Never/Miss all the time. It won't bleed through paint and the best part about it is, when the painter has already primed and you touch up with it, he doesn't need to prime over the mud. It seals it where two coats of satin paint will cover it. It is great stuff.
We use it in our skim coat mud. That way all of the joints are covered with color. Serves a couple purposes. You can see scratches better with it. You know if you oversand an area if you sand to the white. And it seals the mud and helps with joint flash. Almost eliminates it. You would be amazed how much better it works with a little color in the mud. They also have a product called Final Coat that is great for level 5 finish. Spray on with an airless. Two coats of paint and you are done. Works as a great primer under or over texture, too.


----------



## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

I use it when i fix other tapers work. On primer it works really good and since the painter can see the patch work he can sand the patches


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

Hint Hint - this is all you need and you likely already have it. :whistling2:


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

You haven't tried Never/ Miss if you think chalk is the same.


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

You are right Tim, but chalk works for me and see no need to purchase anything more for the amount it gets used.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I understand. I use it in all of the mud for the skim coat. (not just for touch up) Sure knocks down the joint flash. The painter can use any cheap primer and still no flash.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

DLSdrywall said:


> I use it when i fix other tapers work. On primer it works really good and since the painter can see the patch work he can sand the patches


You have painters that will sand patches:blink::blink:

Where to Hell do you live, I'm moving there:thumbsup:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> I understand. I use it in all of the mud for the skim coat. (not just for touch up) Sure knocks down the joint flash. The painter can use any cheap primer and still no flash.


I don't see how:blink:

Lets say were talking final coat on screws for example, some call the finale coat on screws a sanding coat. After you sand, how much of that finale coat is left behind ????????

Flashing is from 2 different surface types, one smooth, one rough. So I don't get it:blink:


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

2buckcanuck said:


> I don't see how:blink:
> 
> Lets say were talking final coat on screws for example, some call the finale coat on screws a sanding coat. After you sand, how much of that finale coat is left behind ????????
> 
> Flashing is from 2 different surface types, one smooth, one rough. So I don't get it:blink:


There is enough left in the mud to seal it so it won't flash. I have seen the mud show a different sheen through orange peel. (regular mud) Especially if the painter used a cheap primer. This stops that. Unless you sand all of the color off down to the other coat. Then you might have sanded too far.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

We are talking two different types of flashing. One is the texture difference. And I agree with you. Never/Miss won't help that type. But it sure does on the flashing sheen through the primer and paint. And that type will flash even through knockdown. This being my experience, not just my opinion. Since N/M is a sort of acrylic, it seals the mud and is a touch harder to sand, but seals it and stops the porosity difference. But for smooth wall, you need to coat the whole wall to stop the texture difference between the paper and mud. And N/M has a product called Final Coat that is added to the mud and makes a very nice finish. In my opinion...


----------



## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

They only time i experienced flashing is downtown Toronto


----------



## Kiwiman (Jun 14, 2008)

Speaking of flashing here's a question for Mr painter, is there a texture difference between hard mud and soft mud? say if soft mud was used to patch repair over hard mud, because it would blend in together better and not get the onion skin effect when sanded.
I presume sealing and sanding the sealer would even out any texture difference.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> We are talking two different types of flashing. One is the texture difference. And I agree with you. Never/Miss won't help that type. But it sure does on the flashing sheen through the primer and paint. And that type will flash even through knockdown. This being my experience, not just my opinion. Since N/M is a sort of acrylic, it seals the mud and is a touch harder to sand, but seals it and stops the porosity difference. But for smooth wall, you need to coat the whole wall to stop the texture difference between the paper and mud. And N/M has a product called Final Coat that is added to the mud and makes a very nice finish. In my opinion...


I half to admit , this never miss product gets me confused on it's exact function:yes:

The only time I tint mud, is to get any touch ups I may have when sponge sanding on check out. Even then, it's a small scoop full of mud I tint blue with chalk, and Most of my touch ups involve nicks and dings that are not even in my field of work. It just makes them visible and reminds you where to go back and sponge them. That's what can drive me nuts with this trade. You could build a straighten something out with 2 tons of mud, put a lot of time and effort into something, that most times some other trade screwed up. Then some stupid painter says you suck because there's a ding in it. They tend to forget our first goal is to HIDE THE JOINT, not make things 100% blemish free for them, we try to but:furious:............... sorry, went off on a rant there:whistling2:

But from what I have read with this never miss. Seems like a lot of guys are using it to make sure they don't miss coating something, or sanding something, which makes me go like this:blink:. How can you miss doing something. My advice would be to quit smoking pot, then they may not be so forgetful.

I could see using the stuff to train newbs, but even then. Explaining to a GC or HO your tinting your mud b/c your training a newb, would scare the crap out of them. Some things are best left un said.

So I don't really understand the need, or the purpose for this product. I try to look at things with a open mind. After reading a lot about fiberfuse for example, I'm willing to give it a try. Plus there were other products I was willing to try, like Vario, mud max, mudset beads and certain tools. But this product ?????? I don't think so, just don't see the need for it, at least with the system I use when taping


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Your painters must use a primer good enough to stop the sheen difference between the mud and the paper or you would see the benefit of this product. That part far out weighs the color advantage. I would prefer just white (I get tired of people asking about the color). I can look around the house and know if I have or haven't hit this or that joint or bead. Don't need it color coded. But when it stops the joint flash, well I'll spend money to do that.


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> Your painters must use a primer good enough to stop the sheen difference between the mud and the paper or you would see the benefit of this product. That part far out weighs the color advantage. I would prefer just white (I get tired of people asking about the color). I can look around the house and know if I have or haven't hit this or that joint or bead. Don't need it color coded. But when it stops the joint flash, well I'll spend money to do that.


That's where I would half to see a wall with one side done with regular mud, and the other with never miss. Just a simple 10 foot long wall. Then paint it. Draw a line dead down the middle, then see if anyone can notice a difference from either side. If it's true what you can say it can do, then I would be like you, I would want the product to come in white:yes:

Thanks Tim:thumbsup: But what would Myron Ferguson think


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Oh my...... Myron. What can I say?? He's the man. Oh my...


----------



## getrdone (Feb 28, 2011)

*Core Solution*

:yes::yes:
What is Never-Miss Drywall Coloring Gel?

Never-Miss is a breakthrough technology for tinting drywall joint compound and drywall mud for the purpose of providing extreme visibility during final touch up work, sanding, and Level 4 / Level 5 finishing. The Never-Miss formula has a priming effect that helps to eliminate paint flashing and joint shadowing, thus improving the quality of the job and helping the work to be done right the first time. This unique joint compound additive helps drywall finishers consistently achieve high-end smooth wall finishes with complete accuracy while saving time and money. Unlike food coloring, carpenters chalk, or other inferior alternatives, Never-Miss uses a specific non-toxic formula for drywall joint compound that is proven to not bleed through the paint or impregnate the gypsum board in anyway.


Easy to see - Ideal for touch-ups and tracking the progress of drywall finishing

Mix in a mud pan for small touch ups, or in a 5 gallon bucket of mud for large jobs

Acts as a Primer and reduces flashing and shadowing of joints

Helps to achieve a high-end smooth wall finish: Level 4, Level 5

Applies as high-visibility color – Sands to a pale color

Does not bleed through paint or impregnate into the gypsum board

Blends easier and works better than other tinting alternatives (i.e. chalk, paint, die, etc.)


Never-Miss Coloring Gel Solves Drywall Finishing Problems

As all drywall finishers know “touch up and tracking” is both a tedious and time consuming part of drywall finishing. It’s costly, labor intensive and time consuming. Not to mention, at this phase in the process the work is being evaluated and your performance and quality is under inspection (whether by you, or the builder.) Make sure your finish stands up to the test and expedite the touch-up process. Use Never-Miss, and never miss a spot again.

Using Never-Miss Coloring Gel at the start leads to better quality control at the finish, and increased productivity every step of the way. When adding Never-Miss Coloring Gel to your joint compound you will be able to keep track of every last spot on the wall – easily see where you have worked and what areas still need attention. Being able to see the touch up spots quickly and easily saves the drywall finisher time, increases quality, and leads to many hours saved in labor. The benefits lead to bottom-line savings for the contractor, by speeding up the finishing time, decrease labor expense, and increase quality.


Smooth Wall just got easier

A large majority of the homes and buildings today require a smooth finish, or what is known as a Level 4 or Level 5 finish. Never-Miss helps you achieve a high-end, smooth finish by helping to eliminate flashing or shadowing of your joints. Mixing Never-Miss into your joint compound for the “skim coat or final coat” phases helps insure a flash and shadow free job by helping to eliminate sanding through the top coat and keeping an “even” coat across all panels. Contractors can expect to save much time, energy, and expensive when using Never-Miss to achieve a high-end, smooth finish.

Eliminate “White Out” Syndrome

Trying to find touch up areas in the final sanding phases can be very difficult, especially when everything looks white and seems to blend in. Locating the white areas of the wall that still need to be touched up can be challenging when you are battling with the white of the compound, the white of the lightning, and white of areas that have already been sanding. Eliminate the “White Out” syndrome and find touch-up spots quickly and easily with Never-Miss. Different members of your finishing crew will be able to work in harmony, rather than going over each other work. Tracking your works becomes much easier whether working by yourself or with a large crew on a big project.

How to use Never-Miss

For large jobs:

Mix thoroughly 1.5 oz of Never-Miss Color Gel (half of our 3 oz bottle) to one 5 gallon bucket of joint compound. Mix together well. Apply joint compound to finish coats and skim coats as normal. As the joint compound is drying, Never-Miss Color Gel dries and rises to the surface of the joint compound. This allows for the color to be sanded away with ease, leaving your un-sanded areas more visible. Color will not bleed through paint, and Never-Miss Color Gel actually acts as a primer to the finished joints, helping to eliminate flashing and shadowing. 

For small jobs:

Mix thoroughly 3 to 4 drops of Never-Miss Color Gel to one Mud Pan full of joint compound. Mix together well with Taping Knife. Apply joint compound to finish coats and skim coats as normal. As the joint compound is drying, Never-Miss Color Gel dries and rises to the surface of the joint compound. This allows for the color to be sanded away with ease, leaving your un-sanded areas more visible. Color will not bleed through paint, and Never-Miss Color Gel actually acts as a primer to the finished joints, helping to eliminate flashing and shadowing. After sanding, the color is complely pail and is easily covered with paint.
Use to patch painted walls too. No need for priming. 
:thumbup:


----------



## moore (Dec 2, 2010)

you keep talking about touch up...Whats that???:blink:


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

getrdone said:


> :yes::yes:
> What is Never-Miss Drywall Coloring Gel?
> 
> Never-Miss is a breakthrough technology for tinting drywall joint compound and drywall mud for the purpose of providing extreme visibility during final touch up work, sanding, and Level 4 / Level 5 finishing. The Never-Miss formula has a priming effect that helps to eliminate paint flashing and joint shadowing, thus improving the quality of the job and helping the work to be done right the first time. This unique joint compound additive helps drywall finishers consistently achieve high-end smooth wall finishes with complete accuracy while saving time and money. Unlike food coloring, carpenters chalk, or other inferior alternatives, Never-Miss uses a specific non-toxic formula for drywall joint compound that is proven to not bleed through the paint or impregnate the gypsum board in anyway.
> ...


Well since captain sheetrock or Justme are not on this site as often, I shall try to fill their shoes for one post, and be blunt. I call Bull chit on this product ACTING as a primer and eliminating flashing and shadowing.

To quote your post " Never-Miss helps you achieve a high-end, smooth finish by helping to eliminate flashing or shadowing of your joints. Mixing Never-Miss into your joint compound for the “skim coat or final coat” phases helps insure a flash and shadow free job by helping to eliminate sanding through the top coat and keeping an “even” coat across all panels."

Sounds more like a proper sanding job eliminates the flashing and shadowing, not the product it self. Then else where in your post you state it ACTS as a primer. So it acts like a primer but it is not a primer ??????

To be fair, everything else you state about your product I will not contest, but the elimination of shadowing and flashing I will......

I would say send a bottle to PT so he can test the product and take pics, but his list is getting long with request. Maybe another DWT member who primes behind their work a lot, may be able to test it. (I don't)

I say, finish one side/half of a wall with never miss, then the other side with said tapers regular finish....... Prime..... and see if there is a difference.

Are you willing to play with us getrdone:thumbup:


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

*2buckcanuck*

The Glencoe Tshirt


----------



## 2buckcanuck (Jul 9, 2010)

Mudshark said:


> The Glencoe Tshirt


i don't know what to say Mudshark









But This is the biggest compliment anyone has every gave me on this site









Thank you Mudshark


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 8, 2009)

2buckcanuck said:


> i don't know what to say Mudshark
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There you go, now maybe you can change your Avatar.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Well, 2buck, I will say I have used it in the middle of a smooth wall where they had to cut a hole for something or another. It was about two feet square. Probably more like two feet by thirty two inches. I used it on the final coat and sanded like normal and put one coat of eggshell paint on it. No primer. Put one more coat over it and it was gone. The patch was in a long hallway with a window on one end and a door with a window on the other end. North/ south hallway. But still good light. There is no flashing (sheen difference) in the patch. It completely disappeared. I used the yellow. Worked for me in the U.S. May not work that way in Canada. But your walleye fishing is the best!! :thumbsup:


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

Ahhh. You're just fishin with the wrong bait Tim. What is your state record for Walleye in Iowa?


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Good question, Chris! I'll have to check. And you are most likely right on the wrong bait!


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

http://www.landbigfish.com/staterecords/records.cfm?state=Iowa Found this site.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I have one hanging on the wall in my office that is 32" long. Well a replica. I measured and took a couple pictures and sent in so they could make a replica. I caught it in northern Minnesota. There are some really nice ones hanging out in the DesMoines river. Just not as plentiful as in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Canada and maybe Idaho?


----------



## chris (Apr 13, 2011)

32" is a big fish. :yes: They're probably not as plentiful here in Idaho but we do have some big ones as the state record shows. Anyways back to the subject of never miss product, most of the times painters don't prime before they do their touch up paints, even though it's not our job to make sure they do if there is a product out there that helps with patches showing it's worth giving it a shot. :thumbsup:


----------



## justadrywallguy (Sep 10, 2010)

I use Never miss for touch up only it works. They sell it by the bottle now at the local supply house.


----------



## SlimPickins (Aug 10, 2010)

I asked my supply house about Never-Miss.

I got......Huh?:blink:

I should open my own f***ing supply house. 

These guys don't do anything other than maintain the status quo. Oh, and they have donuts on Friday morning:thumbsup:


----------



## DLSdrywall (May 22, 2012)

Not to hurt anyones feeling the only thing nevermiss is good for is checking out work on primer because i coulden't remember for the life of me where i put a little patch if it's yellow i'll see it if its white, then someone will have to patch my patch. so thats the only use i see for it.


----------



## Stopper (Nov 5, 2011)

I always rip a piece of blue masking tape off a roll and stick that on next to the touch up (used to use tiny post-it notes before that) , Its extremely hard to miss although takes longer to apply than nevermiss, once sanded I pull the blue masking tape off and the touch up disappears...


----------



## harvey randall (Nov 23, 2010)

*never miss*



Tim0282 said:


> I use Never/Miss all the time. It won't bleed through paint and the best part about it is, when the painter has already primed and you touch up with it, he doesn't need to prime over the mud. It seals it where two coats of satin paint will cover it. It is great stuff.
> We use it in our skim coat mud. That way all of the joints are covered with color. Serves a couple purposes. You can see scratches better with it. You know if you oversand an area if you sand to the white. And it seals the mud and helps with joint flash. Almost eliminates it. You would be amazed how much better it works with a little color in the mud. They also have a product called Final Coat that is great for level 5 finish. Spray on with an airless. Two coats of paint and you are done. Works as a great primer under or over texture, too.


 i'll check it out thanks- sounds like abetter job the food coloring. as far as final coat- its the bomb- denny naulder in clearfield utah use to shoot it, a little harder then hamilton but faster better and easier then rolling and skimming. thanks for the insight or insite or line of site or, well thamks.


----------



## jackleg (Jan 22, 2008)

just use lafarge brown for point ups....


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

jackleg said:


> just use lafarge brown for point ups....


The difference is the sealing of the mud. The joint flashing through the satin paint. (duller finish where the mud is) You won't have that with N/M.
You will be amazed how happy the painters are. They get tired of blaming us for the joint flash. Or more like I get tired of them blaming me for the joint flash because they use too cheap of primer or not enough. N/M is worth that to me!


----------



## Drywalogist (Jun 1, 2012)

remcraz said:


> Has anybody had any experience with this Never-Miss on touch up or suggest something else that want bleed through paint. I would like to know the pro's and con's
> Thanks


I haven't had any experience with N-M or anything bleeding through paint. I don't have many touch ups usually and when I do, I only use tint when the primer is close to the same color as the mud and I only use just enough tint to make the patches visible. I don't touch up over finished mud because you always end up with islands so I will always wait til the painter primes.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

But if the painter doesn't use a quality primer or enough primer, your mud will flash through the finish. And this stuff helps eliminate that. Am I the only one on here that has joints flash through the paint? So many times the joint isn't as shiny as the rest of the wall. N/M has eliminated that for me. The painters have noticed, too. And I didn't have to do anything labor intensive beyond dumping a couple ounces of stuff in a five on the skim coat.


----------



## Drywalogist (Jun 1, 2012)

Tim0282 said:


> But if the painter doesn't use a quality primer or enough primer, your mud will flash through the finish. And this stuff helps eliminate that. Am I the only one on here that has joints flash through the paint? So many times the joint isn't as shiny as the rest of the wall. N/M has eliminated that for me. The painters have noticed, too. And I didn't have to do anything labor intensive beyond dumping a couple ounces of stuff in a five on the skim coat.


Well Tim, that is something that comes with a lvl.3 finish and painters have to accommodate that as well. The texture between the mud and drywall changes when you sand and it also depends on how much you fur up the drywall from rubbing it. If they don't want to see the difference then do a lvl.5 finish and charge them more. Critical lighting is also an enemy of ours that makes a job different from the next.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm not talking where the paper is burred. I'm talking how the primer/paint absorbs into the mud as compared to the paper. Doesn't matter if you are talking textured walls or smooth. Level three, four or five. It all absorbs the same. Paper is different than mud.


----------



## Drywalogist (Jun 1, 2012)

I hear pre-coat helps with the difference as it creates the same surface all through.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

But if you can add a few drops of N/M in your mud, why do an extra step?


----------



## Drywalogist (Jun 1, 2012)

I'll have to try that out if I ever come across the problem.


----------



## Tim0282 (Jan 8, 2008)

Wondering what kind of primer and paint is used behind you. Ben Moore? Just about everybody around here uses Sherwin Williams.


----------



## Drywalogist (Jun 1, 2012)

Not sure but I know there is a wide variety of brands and only the quality painters know which ones work the best.


----------



## Workaholic (Dec 13, 2010)

I have some of this stuff that I keep forgetting to try. I am interested in the sealing claim so when I get around to it I will have to come back to this thread.


----------



## justadrywallguy (Sep 10, 2010)

Tim0282 said:


> Wondering what kind of primer and paint is used behind you. Ben Moore? Just about everybody around here uses Sherwin Williams.


One of the paint companies that go behind us, uses Ben Moore (speed hide i think it is called) REALLY sweet primer:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## 🤡 drywall 🤡 (Feb 12, 2021)

you can skim with it, I added too much but oh well...


----------

